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Anonymous
I’m the poster from yesterday who was thinking of quitting my once great job. I want to thank everyone for their replies. I have a screening interview with a competitor this week. Is it normal when you’re at a job for a long time, here 12 years, and it really was great for a long time, to feel this guilty? There’s high level trouble on the horizon and I’ve been unhappy for years now but still I feel so guilty. There are people in management who I knew as friends a decade ago but who are now less than enthusiastic about my work and yet I feel such loyalty. I can’t tell if it’s discomfort with closing a chapter or I’m making a huge mistake.
Anonymous
Move on! You’ll get a 25% raise ;). You are not making a mistake. You hate your job.
Anonymous
Yes most of us feel these feelings you just have to ignore them.
dogs
If something happened to you, they would have the opening posted before your funeral. It’s really OK to look somewhere else. Work is a transaction not a family.
anonshmanon
+1!
Anon
+100!
I hope you nail your interview!
Senior Attorney
Amen! You may love your job but trust me… your job doesn’t love you back!
Sunshine
+2,000. This is what I was thinking as I read your post. While I don’t know if the feelings you’re feeling are normal, let’s assume they are. But your job doesn’t feel the same way about you. There may have been people once upon a time who were loyal to you at the company and who would have struggled to include your name if there were large layoffs. Those days are over. And even when they existed, your name still would have been included if downsizing you had been in the company’s best interest. You can keep any relationships with people that you want to keep after you leave.
Best of luck on your interview. Hope you get the job and a raise! Let us know how it turns out for you.
Anone
I could have written your post yesterday. it feels like a breakup almost when it was such a good fit and you have such loyalty but it’s just time to make this change, tell yourself that it’s just a job and you need to do what’s best for you and your family
Anonymous
Chiming in late to say I am in a VERY similar boat to OP (3 young kids, husband outearns me many times over, at a job that I used to love but am becoming a bit disillusioned with, and debating stepping back from the workforce vs sticking through vs finding a new job) as you, and appreciated everyone’s thoughts yesterday.
anon
Even when my last job was toxic and I was crying and seeking therapy I still felt guilty for leaving. It’s because we’re human and we have a conscience. Corporations, though, are not human and won’t feel a thing. Do what’s best for you.
Anon
This. I worked for someone who physically threatened me, and I felt guilty about quitting. Empathy is real; I knew it would cause headaches and problems for the team.
Eventually, I understood that if my manager and one-over-one didn’t want those headaches, they could have fostered a not-toxic work environment.
anon
I completely understand this. It’s difficult when you’re a long-timer who is loyal and had a good experience for many years. Just keep reminding yourself that you’re doing nothing wrong, and that is probably best for both parties for you to move on.
Anonymous
This is something I hear from women a lot, but almost never men, and this is one where I think we can take a page from their book. The loyalty is entirely one way. I’ve worked with companies planning layoffs for years, and can tell you when it comes to selecting who will stay vs who will go, no one is asking who has been most loyal or who feels the strongest attachment to the business. Please take care of yourself and find a role where you are energized, not drained. You got great advice yesterday! You are doing nothing wrong so stop thinking you are betraying anyone.
Anon
Totally normal! Just remember, you employer wouldn’t hesitate to terminate you if it were in their best interest. So, it’s your responsibility to do what’s in your best interest!
NaoNao
Totally normal! “Ask a Manager dot com” has many people noting they want to quit/are quitting and feel weird, sad, guilty or empty. My own mother was bullied terribly in her last job and watched a wonderful job go from best of her life to a scary, confusing, micro-managing hell and when she retired just a few months early during the ‘Demic, she told me she all but had a panic attack when she sent the email.
I think especially women are socialized to think that we “owe” people/the world/a job/something we agreed or committed to 100% and anything less is wrong.
Change is always hard, scary, and confusing, do NOT feel weird that all kinds of feelings are coming up!
Anon
I worked for the same giant corporation for 20 years. It wasn’t 20 static years. I changed my job within said giant corporation a number of times during that period. It was about 6 really different jobs. But it was the people I met along the way that I felt loyal to. Not the C suite (except for my boss during my last role), not the board of directors. All of that stuff I think of as “the corporation,” and that was also an ever-changing cast of characters.
I felt guilty for a hot minute, but as soon as I left I felt incredibly free. You’ll get over it, OP!
Roxie
No. I’ve never felt guilty leaving a job. Do you generally have problems with people-pleasing tendencies?
Anon
Women are conditioned to have people-pleasing tendencies, so what she feels is fairly normal. Doesn’t make it right or wrong, but we just have to keep reminding ourselves that the company would fire us in a hot second if it felt it would help the bottom line (and the company is an It!).
Walnut
I left a company/job I loved after a decade in the same department. I cried when I told my manager. My coworkers were like sisters and it was a team I helped recruit. My director taught me everything when I started fresh out of college. Truth was I needed to shake things up and the new job was just that.
Was I guilty? Definitely. It was still the right move and six years later, zero regrets.
Anonymous
I really try to encourage my women friends especially to not feel bad about this. At the end of the day, your loyalty should be to yourself (and your family) so prioritize your money, your time, your health, etc first. There are always more jobs and more workers. And I say this as someone who struggled to find work during the recession. This is also why I do not subscribe to the work is family idea. Yes, you want to be collegial and maybe even form deep relationships with people but don’t stay somewhere that doesn’t serve you. Life is too short to be miserable.
Anonymous
I want to go back to yesterday’s post by the mom with a 14 y/o that needed a ride.
I’m so curious where OP lives. When I was 14, I either ride my bike or got a ride with friends- or made due with what my parents could do (drop me early, pick up late, etc). I have a 13 year old and we live in a town with no decent transit at all, crummy sidewalks, and miles between locations. This summer, she will be biking 3 miles to our pool club. If it is rainy/stormy, she can get a ride home with someone or wait in the shelter until her dad or I can get her.
She has a local babysitting job that she can walk to. Some friends have summer school which they get a parent ride to, but it ends at noon. If they don’t want to do extended days, they can walk or bike home (~3 miles) or some parents will get together and do a massive carpool.
I’m so curious what this 14 y/o is doing that has no options for ride sharing or biking.
Anonymous
Honestly I’m glad this is working out for you, and I too suggested biking, but clearly yesterdays poster doesn’t think it is an option for her child and I don’t see the value in dragging this up again just to try and further point out how wrong you think she is.
Anon
This right here.
Anon
Not the OP on that, but we live in a large southern city. My kid can walk to a community college but is too young to go for a few more summers; anywhere with a pool or fun camps is 5-10 miles away. We live close to things, but only things for adults. Roads that were small-city roads have grown into 4-6 lane speeding nightmares that are IMO not safe to bike on and even crossing can be hazardous to a shorter pedestrian. Even with great vigilance, a person is no match for a texting driver.
Maybe I’d feel different if I had a hulking boy child, but for a teen girl, I really don’t want her getting into an Uber. Our city also does a lot of busing for schools, so we don’t have a nearby network of similarly-aged kids’ parents in similar activities. They have friends, but often 20-30 minutes away, so carpooling has never been feasible. If we had moved 10 miles further out, there would have been tons of kids (I think), but as a working mom who commutes to center city, that would have made me crazy during the daycare pickup years. In a few years, we should have a teen driver and I’d feel better about her driving than being in an Uber alone at 14.
In our neighborhood, many women don’t work or work PT in flexible jobs, I’m convinced, mainly to deal with kids’ activities and just reduce the temperature within the home. I often wish my field had feasible part-time options. I wouldn’t step back to be a driver, but just to be less stressed and more present in the few years I have left before the kids leave the house.
Kiddo has babysat before for neighbors with younger kids.
In a different world, I was taking commuter buses into NYC as a high school student, but I wouldn’t have felt comfortable biking around somewhere like Tysons Corner, which IMO is not a safe area for anything but cars. I felt safe walking as a pedestrian in Arlington but even there tended to use bike paths vs city streets when on wheels.
Anon
Not sure where you are, but I’m in ATL and it’s similarly really not safe to bike in my area. Our immediate neighborhood is safe but it’s an island – to get to activities, the library, etc. requires venturing onto roads with very heavy traffic and a 40 mph speed limit. I used to race bikes, so I’m comfortable in heavy traffic but it would not be safe for a kid and honestly wouldn’t even need that safe for an adult (I would do it but wouldn’t love it).
anon
And we know people drive at least 10mph if not 20 over the limit in ATL. So that 40mph road is actually carrying 50-60mph traffic.
anon
Yes. Our neighborhood is great and we love almost everything about it, but it’s an island. In our city, the elementary schools are all based in neighborhood settings. Ours is exactly 0.2 miles from our driveway. It is awesome. That all changes for middle school and high school, just as kids could be expected to be more independent. Except for in the oldest neighborhoods, the middle and high schools all have their own larger campuses that are typically set aside by major roads that have the delightful combination of heavy traffic and people who won’t slow the eff down. Some major roads have bike trails next to them, but not all. Therefore, you don’t see many older kids biking to school purely for safety reasons. You can argue all day long about bad urban planning but that doesn’t change the reality for many of us.
Anon
Right? My kiddo has violin every other day and orchestra rehearsals sometimes in the evening. IDK how you commute on a bike with a violin (let alone larger instruments), on top of the backpack that weighs about 20 pounds. Plus, our city gets a TON of rain. Even if biking could work on a sunny non-violin day, it’s not regularly feasible. Plus: at least a mile of the 3-mile trip is a 5 and 6-lane local roads with 40+ mph traffic busy texting in their Starbucks orders.
anon
I feel your pain, fellow orchestra mom!
instrument logistics for bike-able communities
I’m sorry that the roads around you aren’t safe for people who aren’t in a car. I’m absolutely not advocating for biking somewhere unsafe, but I do have an answer to the logistics question of how to bike with an instrument in case other people who are reading do live somewhere safe to bike.
I’ve seen 5th graders in my very bike-able city tow instruments as large as cellos in bike trailers that look left over from their preschool years or just ride a cargo bike with an instrument. I’ve also seen children with smaller instruments strap them to a rack on the back of their bike. A traveling (between a handful of schools) music teacher tows instruments strapped to rack that looks like it has an extra wheel.
Seventh Sister
My eldest kid is a violinist and had a backpack case for her violin, so she put her (heavy) backpack in the back basket on her bike and wore the violin backpack case. That worked for a few years, then she was gifted a very very nice violin, which she uses at home and leaves her “just okay” violin in her school locker or the band room. Now she commutes with just her backpack. My cello player has a cello at home and uses a school cello at school.
My kids’ bike commute isn’t long or difficult at all – most of it is on either a dedicated bike path or residential streets. Their ability to bike there is an exception, not a rule, even in our relatively walkable/bikeable city. We also don’t want either kid riding home in the dark, so we do drive them on days where they have late practices (no amount of reflective clothing or bike lights change the fact that the bike path is mostly deserted in the early evening except for highly impaired transients). One of the most vocal/obnoxious Hyper Bike Guys in my neighborhood drives his kids to and fro, and I don’t really fault him for it given where he lives in the town.
Anonymous
As a musician I cringe at the idea of biking with an instrument in a backpack or towing it on a bike trailer. Do you have any idea how expensive those things are and how easily they can be damaged or even just get out of adjustment? And how much of a pain it is to have them serviced?
Seventh Sister
Having paid for the “just okay” violin, I’m well aware of the cost. It was a risk we were willing to take.
Josie P
We live in a small town (New England, exurb) and all of the kids’ activities are driving, not walking, distance (5-25 minute drive) except for school-sponsored after-school activities. The HS is also a 10 minute drive along a road with no sidewalks, not bikeable, so for after-school pickups, I have to break up my work day to do a 3 pm or 4 pm pickup (which I am doing but it is a PITA). For summer there is day camp (30 minute drive) that does have a bus from their school, but I send them overnight instead since it’s not any more spendy and WAY more convenient.
Anon
Town to me is a safe place to bike and walk. City is maybe OK and maybe not, neighborhood by neighborhood, perhaps for different reasons and by time of day, but if the parent isn’t thinking it’s safe, it’s likely for a reason. I had a bright orange Double Bob stroller and was almost hit by multitasking drivers while in crosswalks crossing with the “walking man” sign in my supposedly high-walkablility neighborhood. So, I try to have my kids avoid walking at rush hour or in dark clothes and we all have NoxGear.
Anon
Not everywhere is bicycle-friendly. I used to bike some places as a kid, but I sure was not going to bike on a a multi-lane divided road with no shoulder where speeds were 55 mph. I couldn’t do a lot of things and had to sit at home. Today, expectations are a little different.
Anon
Right! I’m confused by the judginess in this OP. Many, many places in the US don’t have areas safe for walking or biking and don’t have public transportation. This is a well known issue. I live in a southern capitol city, and many, many places are not accessible by bike, especially by a child. My partner only works a few miles from our house and wanted to bike, but soon realized the only route involved a 5-lane highway and an interstate on-ramp.
Anon
I feel like of the many places one may live, the subset of roads “safe to bike” is much smaller than the subset of roads “unsafe to bike”. And in much of the country public transportation is somewhere between nonexistent and very limited in scope. I live in a rural area where you would take your life in your hands to bike on them, there are no buses, no taxis, no Uber. You can drive, you can carpool, or you can sit yourself at home.
The No Club
It’s pretty easy to understand that maybe this kid’s preferred camp opportunity is 10 miles from their house. So, yea, obviously the mom could say “I can’t drive you and it’s too far to walk or bike, so you can’t do the camp,” but it’s very easy to imagine an option where biking/walking isn’t an option. And as for ride sharing, maybe they just don’t know anyone else going to that camp/activity? Again, totally fair to say they should choose something different, but that’s not the premise of the question.
Anon
Right.
I didn’t get a chance to answer the question yesterday. As one possibility, a new retiree might be willing to be paid for this. They aren’t so old that their driving is a mess and also might be happy to be handed $150/week to drive a kid twice a day. Just a thought.
To the larger point: the cost of transportation (money or time) is part of the cost of camp. If camp is too expensive, it’s too expensive, and that doesn’t change just because the cost is in a logistical nightmare for the parents.
Anon
I live in an area with no public transit (and I mean *none*), very narrow roads, and no sidewalks. Some parts of the country are car-dependent and also take a very lackadaisical attitude towards accidents happening to kids. It is one of the big reasons that I would like to move to someplace with decent infrastructure.
Seventh Sister
I grew up in an area like that, and with two working parents, there wasn’t a lot I could do on my own before I got a driver’s license except babysit for neighbors. There wasn’t a store or a post office box or a gas station within walking distance of my house.
Anon
Exactly. It’s hard to explain exactly how narrow and treacherous the streets are: sometimes, there isn’t enough room for cars going in opposite directions (both have to drive a button to gravel or grass to pass), or they are 50 mph lanes with no shoulder or bike lane. With nothing to do, kids get into drinking and other not-great activities.
Of course, it’s one of those totally adorable college towns that half the women on this board think is just an amazing and terrific place to live. Eye roll.
Seventh Sister
People in my hometown thought my hometown was soooooo safe and idyllic and you courted death by going to either one of the nearest cities. Honestly, there was not much for teenagers to do but roam the mall and get drunk in cornfields. Given the number of traffic fatalities, they were so, so off the mark in terms of actual risk.
Anon
People were shocked that we chose to move to a more expensive town with smaller, older houses in a close in suburb instead of a McMansion in the exurbs. Except our entire town is walkable / bikeable (there are no school buses, kids are expected to walk / bike) and it has a train station with 3 train lines on it.
My house is a labor of love and will never be perfect, but I love that my kids can walk to school, friends houses, part time jobs, and the pool. My commute is easy and fast (8 minute walk to train station, 15-20 minutes on the train). We can walk to go out to dinner, so I felt comfortable leaving the kids at home maybe a little younger than others who are further.
For those of you who have yet to move to your forever home, I highly recommend thinking about the pre-driving teenage walkablity of your home.
Anonymous
Yes, we should all aspire to be you.
anon
That’s awesome for you, but I’m here to tell you that this isn’t a problem just in the ‘burbs. I thought this was pretty well known.
Anon
I 100% agree and made the same choice. It’s not just pre-driving teens, either. It’s also people with many disabilities (which could be any of us at any time) and older people. Life here isn’t perfect by any means but getting around without driving is one stressor that is not in my life.
Anon
+1
Anon
Thank you for saying this. Intuitively, I believe this to be true: finding a place with decent walk ability isn’t just for crunchy adults. Nice to hear that it’s good for kids, too.
Anon
Yeah, great idea. Every single person buying a house should consult a psychic to make sure that their yet-to-be-born children’s school district will only have their preferred extracurricular activities in walkable parts of town. Also maybe that psychic can rustle up a very specific new job in this location and plus however many extra hundreds of thousands of dollars this house would cost to enable her to attain this lifestyle.
Anon
A lot of us have choices and sometimes move houses and neighborhoods. The pros of living downtown are sometimes overlooked if people see the suburban lifestyle as higher status, so it’s worth considering them.
Anon
Or… maybe people who are in a position to make such a move can do so while it’s feasible. Just because it doesn’t work for you at this particular point in life doesn’t mean it’s bad advice for everyone.
Anon
I decided the trade offs were worth it for me, but many wouldn’t.
Our house is about 2k square feet, 1.5 baths (we’re hoping to eventually add a second full bath), no central air – just window units (in the mid Atlantic), no garage, and while it’s 4 bedrooms one is a walk through so the layout is a little weird. Basement is unfinished but we still made it our kids’ play area. Closets are small. The “office” is a hallway that is also the mud room and is also off the first floor half bath.
Some people would need more space or storage for their sanity, I needed good commutes / walkability proximity to extended family.
At least in my area, you get old and small but walkable or new and spacious and car centric but not both. Neither is wrong, but it’s a trade off.
Anon
I mean, at least in the Bay Area I think most aspire to live in as close in as they can with as much walkability as possible, but given most feel that way these areas are EXTREMELY expensive (absent major safety concerns etc) in an already EXTREMELY expensive situation. So few can afford it, but it’s not because we didn’t think ahead to how nice it would be to walk places!
In-House Anon
I didn’t read all of yesterday’s comments, so not sure if this was suggested — OP, could you contact the camp and ask them if they’d be willing to help facilitate carpools? Maybe families in similar situations could opt-in to being part of a contact list to help parents coordinate among themselves? Beyond that, I’m afraid I don’t have any suggestions but wish you luck in getting your son situated for the summer.
anon
I like that idea, and thank you for offering an actual suggestion that didn’t beat me up for my parenting choices.
In-House Anon
Or, since the camps are run by the school district, is there a district FB page you could post on? That would bypass the roadblockers you might come up against if asking the organization directly for contact information (I’ve seen public schools cite “privacy” concerns as a reason not to publish an *opt-in* directory when their real concerns might be related to litigation or whatever as noted below).
Seventh Sister
I see plenty of “liability” or “litigation” concerns in my area which are really just, “don’t feel like saying yes.”
Anon
You also asked what other people with 14 year olds did, and you got answers that differed from what you think should be the solution for your kid (someone else driving to this particular activity/camp). I say this as an anxious parent myself – you may want to think about some of the comments and whether there is a hint of truth about how much responsibility a 14 year old should have over their own activities, including getting there. If kid doesn’t have the skills now, this may be a time to help them develop those skills.
But what really makes me sad about this whole conversation is how car-dependent so many places are, and how so many people fear for their lives if they are near a car but not in one.
anon
This is fair, and I do recognize that I need to evaluate what’s expected in terms of independence. But, I’ll still say I don’t know how to get around the problem of living in a car-dependent area other than … finding someone who drives a car.
anecdata
I think the other thing that I might not have understood from your original question is that you were specifically only looking for ways to get kid to these specific, driving-required camps – not, what do 14 yr olds do for the summer when their parents can’t chauffeur them. Because there’s likely a big difference between neighborhoods “no safe non driving option to get to this specific location” and “there’s no non driving way to get /anywhere/ from our house”. I think a lot of people were telling you that they consider transportation as part of the selection criteria for summer activities – as a factor among others, similar to cost, kids’ interest, etc.
Anon
I feel like with concerns re litigation and general being overworked and understaffed before the summer camp people show up, this ain’t realistic to happen. At best, you e-mail your neighborhood and friends and even FB seeking out anyone remotely nearby going that week or try to talk the moms you know into going the week you’re going to you can share driving.
anon
OP from yesterday, not that I really wish to rehash, but here is the context:
– His camps are specialized music and academic camps run by the school district. The camps are held at buildings all over town. The closest camp is 5 miles away, all on major streets, and others are 7-10 miles away. Trust me when I say that biking is not a great option, especially in the middle of the day when it’s 90-95 degrees and humid. People around here would think we were certified nuts for making our kid do that. I am an in-shape adult who would not voluntarily put myself through that for a weekday event. If camp were at his home building, walking or biking would obviously be more of a possibility.
– It’s not like I don’t know any parents or haven’t cultivated relationships with his classmates’ parents. Sheesh. That was hurtful. The camps have maybe 50-75 kids who come from all over the city, so it’s not even guaranteed that he has a buddy from the neighborhood to go with.
– This is a college town. Public transit is a joke once you get outside the core of the city. Just to satisfy my curiosity again, I looked up bus routes. Yeah. That’s not happening.
My real question was how do people find a driver they trust when you know you can’t be the one shuttling your kid places every day. Uber would be a possibility, but I’ll admit the idea of sending him in a car with a stranger makes me pretty uncomfortable. I may need to get over it. Of course I have friends and neighbors, but they are busy with their own stuff! I need to find a retired friend who needs something to do.
And for everyone who was snarky about what 14-year-olds should be able to do, my kid has ADHD, which means his executive functioning is lagging behind his peers. It can be very tricky to figure out when to push him beyond the comfort zone, and when doing so would be setting him up for failure. Also, he may be 14, but he looks about 11 or 12, so I try to be very aware of what situations I’m putting him in.
Anonymous
I didn’t see this yesterday so apologies if my suggestions are duplicates.
1) Will there be any neighborhood college students home for the summer? Maybe one of them could do the drive (At least one way).
2) Does your kid have a phone? I know iphones can allow location tracking which might make Uber a more comfortable option.
Anon
your question was totally reasonable. idk why people were beating you up. you sound like a great mom. i also think in some circles it’s more common for kids to just hang at home/bike around all summer. it was not the norm where i grew up.
Anonymous
All the virtue signalers love to beat people up for stuff like this on the web. It makes them feel powerful and morally superior. “Don’t have a kid unless you are willing to move to the city where they can ride the bus.” “If I had a kid I would definitely not let it do any activities at all because I would never be a tiger parent, and I would not allow it to learn to read until age 9.” Etc.
Anon
Or it’s realizing that by moving to a car dependent place, people who don’t drive will have limits put on where they can go. That’s not virtue signaling at all. I grew up in a car dependent place and by the time I was in high school, my two working parents made me figure out my own rides places, or I rode my bike (which often took an hour, but I had time!). It sucked and meant I couldn’t participate in some stuff I wanted to do. I’ve made different choices so my kids aren’t in that position. As a result they won’t have many of the benefits of where I grew up, but they will have that particular benefit in part because it’s a huge benefit to me as a working parent. Not virtue signaling, a solution to a problem a lot of parents here face.
Anonymous
There is literally nowhere in our metropolitan area that is not car-dependent when it comes to kids’ activities.
Anon
I agree with Anon at 10:56. This issue is a very important consideration when buying a home and it’s not discussed enough.
Anon
to the ANon at 10:56, moving to a place that isn’t car dependent is not a choice for everyone
Seventh Sister
Like many people on the internet, I was a really good mom before I had kids.
Anon
It seems like a lot of people were weirdly triggered by this question.
Anonymous
+1, you sound like a very reasonable person and a great mom.
Seventh Sister
I’m probably a broken record on this topic, but the best, best driver I found when my kids needed rides at an inconvenient time was through the school’s FB group. It was a mom in a different grade who wasn’t working full-time and could use the money.
anon
I think this is my best bet. I may be hitting up the school and neighborhood facebook pages.
Anon
I missed the kerfluffle yesterday, and somebody might have given you this answer already. But people I know in similarly spread out cities have hired summer “drivers” for their kids – essentially a part time nanny, but with a title that is more appealing to the young teens who’ve really outgrown the need for supervision. My sense is that the “driver” might hang out for a couple of hours after getting the kid home, just to be around, help with rides to friends houses, maybe run an errand or two, etc.
Anon
The good thing about Uber is that you can see exactly who is picking him up, the license, car make, etc. And you can track the route. Uber has a teen mode for exactly this kind of thing.
Anonymous
As an adult I don’t even like using Uber. The cars are all smoky and the drivers are sketchy. I have had so many bad Uber experiences that I will always opt for public transit, a long walk even through a sketchy area, a licensed cab, or a rental car. No way would I put my teenaged daughter in an Uber.
Anon
A cab over an Uber?? You have no idea who the driver is and there’s no record of your trip and no customer service if you have an issue.
Anonymous
That is a wild generalization. I’ve never been in a smoky car. Just one that smelled bad but that was in New Orleans and I am sure someone got sick in it. Not the driver’s fault
Anon
@10:59 I take Uber and Lyft quite a bit and have never been in a smoky car and have had one driver I didn’t think was great. And I do not live in a big progressive area. So your experience is just that, your experience.
Seventh Sister
I liked it when it started, but I’ve had the same issues recently. Somebody is smoking in the car, or finishing their cigarette/weed then getting in the car, the drivers are borderline rude more often than not, and it’s more expensive. Cabs have gotten noticeably better, especially from hotels and the airport.
Anonymous
My experience is my experience, which is why I will never allow my teenaged daughter to have the same experience.
Anon
I don’t love Ubering but I find it safer than cabs!
Anon
Drivers are “sketchy” = not white and don’t speak English as a first language?
Anon
I choose the slightly more expensive option for Ubers – Uber Comfort. It’s usually only a few bucks higher in fare, and the cars have to be a certain level of clean. I’ve had all good experiences since making this change, and sometimes I get to ride in really nice cars (particularly in downtown LA!)
Anon
I believe Uber doesn’t allow minors to ride unattended. At least, that was the case when I was trying to find a ride for my kid to his summer job.
Anon
A lot of parents in my area hire part-time nannies to basically serve as drivers for their kids. They pick the kid up from school, take to activity, take home, and then prep dinner. We have several colleges nearby, so it’s normally a college student interested in working 3-7. Certain programs within the universities have groups or networks for students interested in becoming babysitters– nursing and OT/PT students come to mind. I think it’s reasonable to require the driver to be >18, but I think you just have to go with your gut and trust someone–the same way you would with a babysitter for an infant, etc.
Also– totally with you on the biking. My SEUS is very hilly with unpredictable weather, so even our “walkable” neighborhoods aren’t really walkable unless you’re going a very short distance on a perfect weather day. We just moved from a “walkable” neighborhood to a suburb and have commented frequently that we would actually trust our kid to walk to other kid’s houses in our new neighborhood but would not have allowed kid to walk around in the old one due to cars/homeless population/lack of sidewalks.
Anonymous
Hi OP. The only practical solution I can think of is sometimes you can form a “relationship” with an Uber driver, and then there’d be consistency for your son. We live in the suburbs and were able to do that to take a relative to physical therapy.
I think it’s really nice that you are thinking this through for your son. I’ve been self supporting since I was 14, and probably made some bad choices to get myself around — I remember a boyfriend with a small motorcycle on sidewalks! I was a little bit touched yesterday, I’m sure it never crossed my mom’s mind how I got from school to work. So — this is great, carry on!
Anon
I am appalled that the school district is not providing transportation options even for a small fee. Once again, the opportuties for these kinds of experiences are only available to some lucky kids and not others.
Anon
Lawd, our schools provide transportation for schools during the school day, not from any after school activities or camps. They don’t have the funds to hire enough drivers as it is, so they can’t add any nice-to-have services and have cut back on high school magnet buses.
Anon
Oh, I get it. I end up representing the children in delinquency and criminal cases who never get access to those “nice-to-have” services. Because our society would rather pay for prisons than childhood and teen activities.
Anonymous
Our major city school district does not provide any transport options after middle school despite high schools being sometimes 3-5 miles away from where kids lived. As a high school student, the nearest public bus stop, even, was a mile away from my house and the better route was 1.5 miles, so it took FOREVER to get to and from school.
No Problem
Some options:
-Does your city have any kind of van service that is geared toward children? Or even towards the elderly (but isn’t like a paratransit service)? We used something similar when my brother needed rides after school and he didn’t have his license yet and our older brother (his ride the previous year) had graduated HS and moved away.
-You say you’re in a college town: are there college kids who stick around for the summer? Can you post an ad or otherwise find a college student who is looking to earn some extra cash this summer? My parents found many (all?) of our babysitters through posting on bulletin boards at the local Christian college. Not sure what kind of vetting they did, but we all survived :)
-As others have said, the local school FB group could help turn up someone, whether it be another parent or even an older kid with their license. Also try Nextdoor.
-You mentioned yesterday that people on Care or elsewhere are likely looking for more regular/permanent opportunities, but have you really tried? Maybe you can get one person willing to do two weeks in June, another to do 2-3 weeks in July, and a different person to do a week in August.
-It’s not clear from your post whether these are all day camps or only partial days. Either way, can you and your husband do some creative scheduling with work for the summer? Maybe he drops off your son on his way to work, and you pick him up when the activity ends and then work the rest of the afternoon from home? This might entail needing to arrive at work earlier/later than usual and/or your son cooling his heels for an hour at the end of camp until one of you can come get him. Or maybe you’re able to arrange a carpool 3-4 days a week and you just have to do this once a week or for one or two weeks when other options don’t work out. Maybe one of the camps is located near a coffee shop or Panera or something where he can go grab a bite and hang out reading or playing on his phone for a bit until one of you can pick him up.
And FWIW, I don’t think anyone was attacking you yesterday. It may have felt that way, but people were working with incomplete information. You didn’t include information about how far away these camps are and the impossibility of biking there, and the complete lack of public transit. I think if you had included that information in your first post, you would have gotten more answers that would have fit your needs. Also, it’s awesome that you’re being considerate of your kid’s ADHD and independent abilities in general. This summer sounds like a great opportunity for him to learn some new skills (aka walk a block to a coffee shop, order a muffin, and sit quietly at a table for an hour until Dad can pick him up – if he’s never done that before, this is a great opportunity for him to learn!).
A.n.o.n.
hi – I’m sorry that the responses made you feel bad. this board can sometimes pile on in my personal experience.
I totally get it, and also live in an area where biking/public transit are not easy fixes, and with kids around this age who have specific and non fungible needs. my district actually has a “mandatory” 1 hour a day band practice for one week in the middle of the day summer.
we hire a college aged buddy to hang out with our kids and get them fed and to/from activities and pool. if you can do the same for the period they have camp – even if it’s just “pay for 3 hours which includes to camp/dead time/from camp” that seems a better solution than scaling back long term.
this is a hard issue and I’m sorry if you’re getting more flack than help.
anon
I didn’t read the comments from yesterday, but I have a 15 y/o who plays two sports that are in unhelpful distances away from my house. In my area, Lyft and Uber are not available for teens. Here’s what I’ve looked at:
HopSkipDrive and Kango. These are child-specific Lyft/Uber apps – the drivers are fingerprinted, background checked etc. I went with Kango. I had a good experience overall, but it is quite pricey compared to a Lyft
A nanny – TBH we have a full-time nanny (with full driving credentials), but we have three kids and sometimes they need to be in different places. 15 y/o is the oldest so he’s the one who gets the piecing together. When we hired her, the agency checked her driving history, but that’s about it.
Lyft – I once called him a Lyft. It turns out that lots of people in my area do this with their teenage boys. I have only done this where pickup is at my house and he’s going to place he is familiar with. Also, my 15 y/0 is 5’10 so can actually pass for 18 (not to mention much stronger than me). I would not do this with my still-adorable 12 y/o boy or my tall but still young 10 y/o daughter.
anon
I should clarify- Lyft and Uber require you to be 18 unless you are part of Uber’s Teen program (which is not available in my area). So you do run the risk that the driver shows up and says no, I’m not taking your kid. And who knows what happens if there’s an accident.
Anon
I was too late yesterday, but could your kid Uber? I wouldn’t do it with a younger kid, but think it’d be fine for a high schooler.
Fwiw, I was in college when Uber came to our area but a lot of my younger siblings’ friends / friends’ siblings Ubered to / from extra curricular activities in high school when they couldn’t yet drive and parents couldn’t drive them.
Anon
i could basically bike nowhere as a kid and even now i don’t know that i’d want my daughter at age 14 biking around the city by herself. yes, sometimes carpools were arranged, but i also had parents who did not believe in kids sitting at home and doing nothing all summer. like they wanted me in some kind of camp, volunteering, etc. and most of those things required transportation
anon
OP here, and this is where I’m at. Should he have downtime this summer? Of course, and he will have PLENTY. But I don’t think it’s the healthiest thing to be homebound all summer and not doing anything. Even the stuff that’s technically close but outside the neighborhood makes me leery because of traffic, speed, and not every road has a bike trail next to it or even a real shoulder.
Anon
Homebound and on a phone / screen all day is not what I want for my kids either. Pandemic was brutal for them and I want them to be out of the house and doing things with people, even if I have to juggle my summer a bit more than I’d prefer or pay a driver to make it happen.
Anon
My neighborhood is hemmed in by 3 highways. There is a bus system that runs along some of the highways, but the closest stop to get on one of the busses is 7 miles from us. The community college, where my son did a number of camps, is 15 miles away on an extremely busy road. The park where the soccer camps were held was across one of the highways. Fortunately, my dh was permanent WFH when the kids were young and he had a huge network of stay at home moms that he arranged car pools with.
Anonymous
Where we live, biking is not a safe transportation option for anyone regardless of age. The main roads are either winding two-lane roads with no shoulder and 45-55 mph speed limits or busy high-speed roads with no bike lanes. Riding a bike on any of these roads is $u!c!de and no one does it, not even adults. The cyclist bro dudes either drive their bikes to areas with less traffic or ride laps through the subdivisions. Unfortunately, the reality of suburban life in most places is that children cannot go anywhere without a ride.
Anon
We live in a world where we have prioritized cars over all else and there are tradeoffs for that.
Anon
When it comes to biking, I think we do need to be honest with ourselves about the risk. There are absolutely areas where there are no safe routes – that’s without question. But there are other areas that do have safe routes that are maybe less convenient or less familiar (or you haven’t had your kid do independent things much and you’re worried about that more than the traffic) and it may be worth considering whether you’re closing off a good option because most of the other routes are unsafe. It’s very individual, though. In my area, there is a very good bike path that works to get many places, but the roads proper are not safe and I don’t ride on them.
Anon
I don’t quite understand why some commenters seem oblivious that there are simply no bike paths or bike lanes in some areas, and it’s not just that people aren’t trying hard enough to bike places?
Anon
I wonder if the Age of Discovery was like that: people insisting that there were worlds beyond comprehension, just over the horizon and others insisting that they world as they knew it was all that existed.
Some places and routes are not bike-friendly.
Not everyone has a feasible walkable neighborhood where all is walkable for a kid from birth to age 16/17 available to them as a living choice.
anon
Because this board skews heavily to “if you have a logistical challenge it’s because you’re not trying hard enough, not creative enough, not smart enough.” It gets old.
Anonymous
Or not rich enough.
Anon
With a hefty side dish of “if my situation is different, you must be wrong about yours.”
Anonymous
There are many, many places in the US where it is not possible or feasible to walk or ride a bike and there is also no public transit and few other children/parents who could ride share. I’m shocked that you are confused about this. I grew up in a rural but developing area that had one highway through the town/fields. The town was a pit stop. I lived in a small neighborhood off the highway; it was maybe a dozen houses, no kids my age. The only road in or out of the neighborhood connected to the highway. We were surrounded by corn fields and forest so you couldn’t walk anywhere else either. The bus didn’t come out to my neighborhood or anywhere I could access. Most of my friends and classmates lived in similar circumstances (but different neighborhoods) in neighborhoods spread many miles apart. It was not possible to walk or ride my bike anywhere and it was not feasible to get a ride from another parent because the neighborhoods are so spread out.
My husband grew up in an even more rural area with no highway. His closest neighbor is a lodge in a state park 10 miles away. The nearest house is farther than that, the nearest tiny town is something like 30 miles away. No buses. So no it’s not feasible for a kid to bike 30 miles one way even if the roads are safe to bike on.
Anon
I have not experienced this myself, but it brought to mind the Pioneer Woman’s blog post about why she started homeschooling:
“Marlboro Man and I decided to start homeschooling our kids over four years ago. Our oldest child had just completed her first full year of kindergarten, and we were already exhausted from the transportation challenges we’d had to endure that year. The school bus willingly picked her up, yes. But it showed up at our house twenty miles in the country at 6:45 a.m…and brought her home at 4:30 in the afternoon, her snoozing, sweaty face plastered against the bus window. Something about my five-year-old spending upwards of three hours on a school bus each day didn’t seem quite…right to me, but the alternative was for me to load up all my rugrat punks in the car and make two round trips to town each day. And something about me spending that amount of time in the car didn’t exactly make my skirt fly up either.”
This isn’t about homeschooling or the Pioneer Woman or anything else, just an illustration of how hard transportation can be.
Anon
https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/local/2023/09/18/pioneer-woman-ree-drummond-family-oklahoma-tied-to-osage-reign-of-terror-killers-of-the-flower-moon/70866959007/
not a fan of hers, to say the least
Anon
That is her great-great-grandfather-in-law, not her.
Anon
Yes, and did either of you expect go to part time specialty camps run by the school district? My husband grew up in a very rural area and basically stayed at home all day when he was a kid/preteen, doing chores, reading, or playing outside unless his mom had to go into town for something. There was no option or expectation for him to participate in enrichment activities, for better or worse. I think that’s part of the reason his parents chose to live there.
No one is confused about the limits on non drivers in most of the US. The OP wanted to know what the solution was to her problem, and one suggestion was for the kid to walk or bike, which is often not convenient or safe but is, in fact, one way for non drivers to get around. It is the way many, many poor people and people with disabilities get around in this country, including to their jobs and to school. Or those non drivers stay at home unless they can hitch a ride.
I’m very frustrated by this seeming narrative that we should collectively throw up our hands at our car dependent and actively hostile to biking and walking suburban (not rural) areas. While likely not solvable in time for OPs kid’s summer, this is a real problem that many places all over the world have, in fact, improved immensely. In my view it’s a public health, civil rights, and disability rights issue that we have ignored for way too long, and that we need to put our votes and tax dollars behind. But off my soapbox for now.
Anon
I agree with you completely. We need to invest in walking and biking infrastructure and not just so “elites” can ride their expensive road bikes on Sunday mornings – it’s so people who are *already* walking and biking in unsafe conditions because they have no choice can begin to do it more safely.
Anon
I commented a couple of times above about not living in a bikeable area. I agree with you that this is one of the (many) changed I’d love to see in my area!
I think people are pushing back so much because the OP of this post resurrected a thread from yesterday to pick a holier-than-thou argument.
Anon
I grew up in a rural town that didn’t have a McDonalds (still no fast food to this day), let alone a pool club, to bike to. If I biked 3 miles, which I often did for fun, I was still surrounded by woods and a few houses.
My hometown had no transit, at all. No bus. No taxis. No train. Complete transit desert, even today.
Yet, that town is a 25 minute ride from a city of 90K. Many such places exist.
So strange to question another poster about her lived reality just because it doesn’t align with your’s.
Nellie Bly
I’m expecting an offer today. The recruiter and I discussed the compensation last week – they asked me if I’d be okay with $200K and I pushed back that I’m worth more based on my market value. I kind of had them share their number first, and they threw out a number $300K. I said $300K would be a good strong offer. They said they will try to get to there but they probably can’t. The recruiter said they’d come back with their best offer today and made it sound it’d be their final offer.
Question – how should I negotiate given they’d said it’s their final offer? The market is not good, I’m genuinely excited about this role. Have I already negotiated? I would be happy with $260K. If they come back with, say, $270K, should I still negotiate?
Anone
it’s odd they said $300k then said they can’t get there? why would they throw out a number they can’t get to?
Anon
Unless the offer is >$300 I’d definitely try to negotiate, while expressing enthusiasm. I’m assuming they’ll flat out tell you when it’s their final offer.
Anon
Yes, I would still negotiate. In addition to salary, also consider if there are other things to negotiate for. I don’t know what field you’re in so this might not work for you, but things like time, other forms of compensation, etc. could be a way to expand their offer.
Anon
I feel like you’ve already negotiated? If you like the role and you’d accept their offer, then it seems like you’re good to go.
anonymous
+1
Anon
Recruiters want to get the sale done (ie you hired). Just ignore what they say.
Anonymous
Is that salary or full package? When you get north of $200k you are often looking at a mix of base + bonus. My job is $230 base with a bonus target of 20% that has come in anywhere 30-60k.
Mid you get an offer of $260k, with more variable comp, ask about it. Ask about vacation. Ask about 401k matching and check that you won’t be a highly compensated employee (not that your salary is that high, but it can happen at some companies). Of you are, negotiate more salary to make up for the lack of company match.
Anon
true about base + bonus. When I was bringing in over $500K a year (what a glorious time) my base was still in the low 200s.
anon a mouse
I think if you want the job, and the market is not good, you figure out the number in your head (260?) and anything from there you accept. You’ve already negotiated. Look at the final package and make sure there’s nothing that’s an outlier on benefits.
If you feel compelled to negotiate more, then I think you have to be explicit about what gets you to yes (“If you can come up to 280 we have a deal”).
Anon
You could always ask for a hiring bonus if they offer $270K. I would say, I was hoping on $300K- can you offer a one-time hiring bonus to get closer to that number?
Good luck!
FormerlyPhilly
What do I do? Made this as generic as possible.
Colleague A newly announced their pregnancy last week (4 months along). Their employment with the organization started 5 months ago.
Colleague B, an administrator, said something in passing to Colleague C about how “timing was strategic” and “Colleague A just started so this is really inconvenient.” Colleague C disclosed this to me about Colleague B. Second hand information. Do I have a duty to disclose to the chief administrator, as I am a peer to Colleague B and also report directly to chief administrator?
Anonymous
No. Mind your business.
Anon
Yeah, if Colleague C had said something directly to you I’d feel differently. Tuck it in your memory as a good thing to know about C, but don’t report anything.
Anon
Colleague B, I mean. The one who made the comment.
anonymous
Depends on if B is A p’s peer or boss. Peer, leave it alone, boss, I’d say something.
Anonymous
Does B have any power over A? If not, just let it go.
Anon
What is the relationship between A and B?
A won’t be FMLA eligible; are there concerns about terminating her if she needs more maternity leave than she has PTO for?
Anon
I feel like at many orgs, A gets waived into paid leave b/c of reputational or headline risk concerns in denying it.
Anon
For that reason, id argue it’s the opposite of “strategic.”
Anon
Oh, I agree! I got pregnant seven months after I started a new job, and believe me, that was strategic. I became FMLA eligible at week 19. Getting pregnant a month after starting? That is not strategic.
As I can tell you from personal experience, though, some people are total idiots about FMLA eligibility, and that includes women with jobs.
nuqotw
MYOB. A pregnancy disclosure at work is a nuclear level secret. Years ago when I disclosed a pregnancy to my then-boss, AFAIK he did not tell even his wife, who worked part time in our same department. (Neither of them supervised the other though.) She seemed genuinely surprised when I told her and I have always appreciated his discretion.
nuqotw
I read too fast and misunderstood your comment – the above is based on B disclosing A’s pregnancy; sorry.
I agree with the above – if B has any power over A, mention. Otherwise, MYOB.
Chl
The administrator language makes me think that you might be in government or higher Ed or something. Normally I would just say mind your own business- it’s not illegal to be a jerk. However check whatever your code of conduct or similar says about reporting harassment or hostile work environment stuff to see if you have any special obligation to report.
anon
Yeah, I’m in gov’t and I’m pretty sure I have an obligation as a supervisor to report potentially discriminatory remarks or behavior.
Betsy
I don’t know if you have a duty based on your organization’s policies, but I think it’s always a good thing to push back when people are being awful about pregnant women in the workplace.
Anon
In the past couple of weeks we’ve had posters laud that they work in the government or nonprofit sector, noting that they could never work for “corporations.” But my sense is that especially nonprofits so rely on people’s developing an identification with the mission that they rely on that to underpay and also overwork staff. It’s almost like an abusive relationship and it always bugs me because it’s almost built in to the business model. Government seems much fairer since they have to follow the rules they enforce, but even tiny agencies can have problems. As much as I don’t want to be a corporate drone (which I could be, since I am basically just a payroll and accounting person), I feel like every other employer I’ve had just takes advantage when they can.
Anonymous
Ok! People are allowed to like their jobs.
Anon
+1
Anon
People are also allowed to work and support themselves and their families wherever they can find employment. I don’t think the person cleaning the toilets at Halliburton is concerned that she should really be working for a non profit.
anonymous
Just work for a corporation, there’s zero shame in it. People like to make themselves feel good.
anonshmanon
yep. There is a lot I appreciate about working in the non-profit/higher ed realm, but obviously every job has downsides, and the constant judginess about those who ‘sold their soul’ to work at for-profit companies is fundamentally an attempt to ignore the less appealing factors in our jobs and reassure ourselves that we made the ‘correct’ career choice. But it can take a long time to get to that conclusion!
Anon
I enjoy the fruits of both the private sector and the non-profit/government sector (conveniences of modern life, advanced technology; good infrastructure and education), so I see no shame in working for either. I am in corporate America and DH is a professor at a state school.
Eliza
This is public education, and it’s one reason why it’s in trouble.
Anon
I had the absolute best middle school math teacher. Probably because she was shut out of professions other than teaching, nursing, or being a secretary.
For the second year in a row, my middle schooler has one teacher shuttling between two rooms of students due to shortages. For all the fuss about getting more girls into STEM, they won’t go far in it if they don’t have basic foundational math skills. Which I think that my formerly STEM-loving kid is removing herself from in her head, perhaps prematurely, but I suspect this is where she is rightly sensing that she isn’t getting the schooling she needs to be successful here (in an area parents are least able to makeup for in the home — you can’t just read a book and learn more like you can with history or similar areas).
anon
That’s definitely a problem in the nonprofit sector, but it’s definitely not true of all organizations. Like any other workplace, there are some nonprofits that are great to work for and others that treat their employees like trash. All you can do is try to sniff it out as well as you can before accepting an offer. IME, having worked for a few nonprofits, the bigger ones tend to be much more organized and offer better balance — it tends to be the small grassroots orgs that expect you to devote yourself to the mission.
Also, there’s nothing wrong with being a “corporate drone.” We all need to make a living somehow and there are other ways to give back to the world — like taking a job with better work/life balance and using your weekends or evenings to volunteer.
anon
I’ve spent most of my career in government or higher ed. While I am glad that I’m here to serve a mission and generally feel good about the contributions I’m making, at the end of the day, it is still an employer, and it is still work. If anything, in the past couple of years I’ve become very jaded because we’re supposed to be better than we are. And crummy organizations will still take advantage of your and your skills if you’re not careful.
Anonymous
This is somewhat true, and part of why the government outsources so much social service work to nonprofits – they can get it done for less than what they would have to pay to do it themselves. But every nonprofit is different, and some jobs at nonprofits pay better than others.
Anon
This is a weirdly reductive way of talking about different work places.
Anon
I’ve worked in nonprofit fundraising for over 15 years, and I’m really burnt out. So many nonprofits are super toxic, and if staff ever complain, the dedication to “the mission” is questioned. Or, supervisors/the Board use “the mission” to explain really toxic decisions like giving really poor PTO and benefits and expecting staff to consistently work beyond normal business hours. “We can’t provide you with standard benefits because that takes away money from the mission. We can’t flex your time even though you worked all Saturday at an outreach event. We can’t offer you paid parental leave or an EAP or short term disability or a retirement plan (let alone an employer match) because that means we’ll have to cut the number of clients we serve.”
Also, how bizarre is it that we have a volunteer, unpaid Board of Directors serving as the ultimate bosses/fiduciary of the organization? They typically have no experience in our field, and as the saying goes, “you get what you pay for.” I’m in a senior role, and my Board is way in the weeds, providing very generic directives like, “have you thought about doing a press release?” or the famous “Have you thought about applying for a grant? I hear (insert famous celebrity here) is giving out money!”
It’s hard not to be bitter, when I present really sophisticated, actionable strategies and then provide quantitative data reporting on progress…to then get suggestions like “Targeted audience? Why are you targeting anyone? Just invite…EVERYONE!”
I’d love to determine how my skills apply in any context that isn’t a nonprofit…
Anon
I was in fundraising for years and had to leave because it was so toxic. Boards are definitely a major issue. I still work for a nonprofit, but it functions much more like a corporation and it’s so much better.
Anon
What did you move into, programmatic leadership?
I’ve been at nonprofits big and small, from 350 staff nationwide to under 10 locally. There’s pros and cons. The larger nonprofits have better HR and benefits, while smaller ones don’t have an HR staff person and benefits are pretty nonexistent. But the Board continues to be a challenge no matter where I work. The 350 staff org had a particularly small Board that didn’t want to expand (literally 5 people who were all friends and went along with whatever the 1 dominant personality wanted). One of the Board members was the heir of a major airline, and he didn’t want to make any introductions to potential donors or engage with fundraising whatsoever beyond “Have you thought about a grant?”
Anon
It should be a requirement for every board member to fundraise. Drives me crazy. Like you I’ve worked for all kinds of nonprofits and charities and they’re all terrible.
Yes, I moved into more of a programming/CSR role. The org I work for is a non-profit, technically, but definitely does not function like a charity.
Anon
i’m not sure what kind of non profit fundraising you are in, but you might consider looking at universities or hospitals because they are often seeking experienced fundraising professionals, but offer MUCH better benefits.
Anon
It’s a good idea! Unfortunately, my experience has been in direct service or advocacy orgs. I’ve applied to universities and hospitals without any luck. I once received a hospital job offer, and the benefits definitely were better, but it was a salary cut I couldn’t afford. My experience is somewhat backward versus the usual trajectory – people often start off at their university.
Roxie
I’ve worked in nonprofits for 20 years. While I may have been underpaid at times, I never had an abusive atmosphere and I always had great benefits.
My nonprofits are social justice advocacy orgs so public perception is important and the recent trend to unionizing means orgs can’t really get away with treating people poorly, if they ever did.
I love my career and could not imagine not working in mission driven places. Obviously, other people make other choices. It’s all good.
Anon
I’m glad you’ve had good experiences!! That’s how it should be. I posted above – we unionized at the 350 person org a few years ago, and it was a really traumatic experience. I eventually left that org last year because of how poorly it went.
This is a well known org, which you would all recognize, that claims to stand for social justice. But they brought in pricy union busting lawyers. We did press releases about an org-wide “sick out” in response, and we got very little coverage.
Anonymous
I agree about nonprofits, but also that attitude is further compounded by donors and funders and “raters” who insist that money should only go to orgs whose staff is extremely underpaid and whose ratio of admin costs to delivered goods is extremely low regardless of the org’s mission. So next time you hear/read about a nonprofit being “bad” and unworthy of support because they pay close to market rate salaries I hope you will loudly push back on the concept.
Anon
+100
Anon
As a donor, I want most of my money to go to those needing charity. Sorry to tell you, but that does not include the staff of the charity.
Anon
But charities won’t have programs or staff if they don’t invest in them.
Anonymous
I think if you looked deeper you would find out yours is not the moral position here.
Anon
Will the program run itself, without staff? Charity programs can’t exist on volunteers alone…don’t you want those in need to benefit from the expertise of trained staff providing whatever service? I would hope that a DV shelter has trained staff to help those in crisis, a sliding fee child care has licensed care providers, and a counseling program has licensed counselors. Those staff deserve to be compensated like anyone.
Anonymous
I’ll bet you think you get “paid what you’re worth” in the private sector, right?
Anon
My high salary as a corporate drone enabled me to pay for my lifestyle, put kids through prep school and college AND generously donate to many charities. No regrets and no shame.
Anon
+1 I am a corporate drone, have a great life, and donate to charity. No regrets.
I am curious how the haters think things like toilet paper get made and delivered to their store so they can buy it? Hate to break it to them. Corporations.
anon
I recognize that the use of the term “flattering” as become controversial but why are skirts all that midi length, I wish they were longer, much more flattering…. says someone who use to wear skirts.
Roller girl
Midi is by far the most flattering length on me. I’ve upped my skirt/dress wearing tenfold since they became more available in stores. I think folks need to accept that there are no universally “flattering” fits. Humans come in different shapes, sizes, scales AND have different preferences for how we look.
No Problem
To each their own. I’m petite, so nearly any skirt longer than just below my knee looks extremely frumpy. Dresses are a different story, but still most midi or maxi length dresses are not flattering on me.
Pep
I thank the fashion gods for the wide availability of midi-length dresses and skirts.
Most people, I think, have areas of their body that they are sensitive about; mine are my knees.
Anon
Flattering only triggers people who don’t have a dictionary. There are certain skirts and shoes that are not flattering on me because I have big ankles and no calved. (yep, there’s a word for that!).
Anon
No, lack of a dictionary isn’t why some people don’t like the word “flattering.”
I actually think it’s fine here, but I fall in the camp with the poster below who hates it when people use it as a way of fat shaming. I also don’t believe the only purpose of fashion is the make a person look as tall and thin as possible, which is often what “flattering” means. In other words, I typically hate it when people use the word to refer to others. Hope this helps!
Anon
Pushing back on that: do you think there are people who look good in certain clothes and not in others, and why? Do you think that certain types of makeup are flattering and others, not so? Hairstyles?
If those things aren’t because of being tall and slim, are they a proxy for ageism? Makeup, hair, and clothes looking “current” is often a proxy for younger people who aren’t stuck in the fashions of two decades ago.
Anon
I’m the poster you’re responding to. “Push back” all you want, but my answer to all your questions is “not really”! I think people look best in clothing where they clearly feel comfortable or chic or playful or whatever mood they’re trying to evoke. And I love it when people are wearing what they enjoy for whatever reason! That includes make up and hair. There are obviously trends (which are, btw, embraced by all ages), but no I don’t think people have to follow those trends to look good either.
There’s a lot about fashion other than looking tall and slim. Textures, colors, fabrics, etc. I appreciate all of that without regard to the body stuff.
Anon
Who decides what is “flattering”? I remember fashion magazines opining broad generalizations, like “never wear horizontal stripes” or “don’t wear small prints”, or “avoid red”, etc.
Women should wear what we like! I love stripes, and will continue to wear them, whether or not someone says it’s “flattering”.
Anonymous
So you would say that there is no such thing as a flattering color? Or a flattering fabric texture? That is a very narrow definition of the word “flattering.”
anonshmanon
Does this mean that you have managed to distance yourself from the conventional standard of beauty in your culture (or have never internalized it in the first place)? If so, how did you do that?
I feel like I can’t _not_ be aware of certain colors, cuts or other choices looking better on certain body types, complexions, etc. I know that is all down to conventional beauty standards which are mostly made up. But they are pretty deeply ingrained there.
Anon at 12:43
I saw the questions about certain colors being “flattering.” That is a context where I do think I’d use that word. For example, the goal of foundation for everyday wear is to match one’s skin tone. So I do think that wearing a foundation that doesn’t match wouldn’t be flattering. Perhaps color of clothing can be flattering in that certain colors make some people look physically ill.
Anonschmanon— I’m certainly not perfect in this regard, and stuff we learn forever is really engrained deeply! I’m a millennial from the southern US, for context. So yes I was raised around people who have a lot of Opinions about what “flattering” means and none of them are charitable. I just try to be aware of my own patterns. For example, if I try on a crop top, one of my first thoughts might be “Ugh that’s not flattering.” So I will ask myself why I think that. For some items of clothing, I decide that I don’t care if it makes me look wider. For some, I decide I will be thinking too much about feeling exposed or whatever so I don’t wear it. But I do try to catch myself and figure out what brought that phrase to mind in the first place. I don’t think people should ever wear an item they find to be uncomfortable for whatever reason.
That last point is why it doesn’t bother me when used as the OP here did. There’s something about midi that makes her feel uncomfortable. That’s okay! She doesn’t have to wear it! But what I don’t like is when people use it about others. For example when pleats were coming back and a lot of people say, “Those aren’t flattering on anyone unless you’re a model” which means “Those make everyone look fat.” Same with a comment like “Those cropped pants aren’t even flattering on the model.” Which means “Those pants make everyone look stumpy.” The context I hate most is when people say that certain folks shouldn’t wear something like a crop top because it isn’t flattering. If a size 14 is enjoying her crop top, then great! Let her enjoy her life and accept that she’s not dressing to fit a certain ideal.
I wouldn’t have responded at all but for the idea that people who don’t like using “flattering” haven’t really thought about it or are just looking to have their feelings hurt! It doesn’t hurt my feelings at all when people use it. I just wanted to explain in a calm manner why some people don’t like it and to spread my hope that we can all find clothes to be FUN in more ways than making us fit conventional beauty standards!
Anon
Anon at 12:43 – okay, let’s dive deeper. If the goal of wearing certain colors is to avoid looking physically ill, why the ingrained negativity towards people who look sick?
I tend to think that there are some standards of beauty that are more objective than others (looking healthy and proportional, in colours that bring out natural beauty, fitted to the person), and others that are more specific to our culture (ex., slim, tall, “current,” “age appropriate”).
Anon at 12:43
Okay? I know you’re trying to depose me or get me to admit… something???
That’s probably right about certain standards being fairly universal. But that doesn’t negate the fact that the word “flattering” implies “creates an illusion of being tall and lean” when used in the US in reference to clothing. I understand that there are other meanings of the word “flattering,” but I think we all know what is meant when the VAST majority of people say “why is Gen Z wearing these clothes they’re so unflattering!!!!” Maybe YOU don’t use it that way since you only use words for precisely their dictionary definitions, but that is how the word is normally used.
Anon
My mom would say “not flattering/unflattering” in the 90s as a way of fat shaming, so yeah…not a term I’ll ever be using.
Midi looks great on me, as a tall woman! I like having different lengths. We’re all different heights!
Anon
I’m tall so happy about midi lengths. I like a skirt to hit at the bottom of my knee, which is most flattering on me. Any shorter and I look like I just grew out of my clothing.
That said, I’m not currently wearing skirts at all. All pants, both casual and workwear, and the occasional dressy dress for something like a wedding.
NaoNao
Midi is a hard length to work, I agree. But as to why…
The average height for women in the US is 5’4″. That means 50% are shorter than that. So a midi is almost a maxi on many people. Mini skirts will never really be a wide-spread option for most women for various reasons, so knee and midi is a “safe” choice.
Maxi skirts are not work-appropriate IMHO–I mean, I guess a wool cashmere blend pencil skirt or some incredible minimalist masterpiece from The Row, but in general, the type of maxis that are available for most of us are not work-friendly, and in my opinion, not even in a biz-caz place. I think it really takes away from a woman’s credibility and authority to be wafting around in a gauzy maxi skirt like Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm or a twirly circle skirt like a Von Trapp. A pencil maxi is always going to look Fundie Chic to me as well. The maxi skirt to me personally is ultra-femme, and that’s not a look many are going for at work. I’ve seen women wearing sundresses and “brunch/church” dresses to work and honestly…I do judge, a little. It frustrates me because I feel like “thanks for chalking one point up for ‘all women are just biding time until they can meet a man at work’ point of view” when I see a woman in an off the shoulder gingham sundress (which I have seen!)
Now if we’re talking non-work, I agree. I’m 5’10” and skirts that are midi, knee, or mini just don’t really work. Maxi length is the only thing that balances my proportions and I do wish I saw more. I notice places like Anthro are labeling clearly midi skirts as “maxi” which is super annoying.
Anonymous
The only people who object to the term “flattering” are the perpetual judgy-pants who also enjoy castigating people for not living in walkable cities, not buying everything secondhand, and letting their kids read Harry Potter. Wanting to show off your best (not necessarily skinniest) features or to wear clothing that is in harmony with your body type, facial features, and coloring doesn’t mean that you hate fat people or aspire to be thin.
Anon
Does anyone live in Reno? We’re considering moving somewhere from the Bay Area (cliche and annoying, I know) and I’ve heard recently that Reno is on the rise and that it’s no longer as “gritty” as it once was. We’re interested in access to the outdoors while still maintaining city walkability/access to amenities. Would love to be close to skiing all winter long, especially since we’re hoping to start a family very soon. Any thoughts?
Anonymous
Where do you stand politically? Nevada has some of the less endearing characteristics of a Red state: lower taxes means less investment in schools, public hospitals and roads than in California. If you have a libertarian bent and welcome that change, great.
Anon
No libertarian bent, but I’m willing to consider a purple state that protects abortion rights. I used to have Boise and Salt Lake City on my list of potential cities to scope out but not now. I’m more willing to tolerate a libertarian bent as long as it’s not paired with extreme misogyny at the highest levels of state government.
Anon
A friend of mine lived there maybe 5-10 years ago. She really liked it, but I think that was largely due to the access to outdoor recreation. I don’t know how she felt about the city itself – I only met her after she returned to our current city (which is our mutual home city)
Anonymous
My cousin does with her family. I have not been, and her husband is from rural Nevada (they met when both were serving in the military). She has three kids, ages 3-11. They love it. She and her kids are constantly outdoors skiing or hiking or just playing outside. My aunt/cousins mom reports that it is a great place and the kids love it there. My aunt is a military spouse, and she and my mom moved every few years for their dads/my grandfather’s job, so she (and my cousin) have lived about 30 different places. If she likes a place, that’s a good star seal of approval in my book.
anonymous
I cannot even imagine. It’s the most depressing place I’ve ever been. From the Bay Area, I’d look at West Sonoma County, reasonable, closer to SF if you want some job flexibility as you could commute from there a few days a week.
Anon
That’s extreme but non-specific feedback. Can you say more?
anonymous
It’s isolated, there’s hardly any business there, hard to get to anything with job options from there. I think this is a big deal as fully remote jobs didn’t take off the way they were predicted for a while. I’ve worked with and am friends with a lot of people who grew up there and would never go back. It’s visually unappealing, if you haven’t visited, I’d suggest doing so. There’s a lot of much more reasonable places to live that are proximate to the Bay Area that I personally think are much more appealing. If you’re looking for a new state altogether, I’d pick just about anything else.
Anon
Thanks, that’s helpful. We’ve been there a few times (not very recently and I’ve heard from a few friends that it’s “better than it was,”) and I think I could be happy with the outdoor recreation and proximity to Tahoe (and accept the lack of proximity to other things). Tahoe proper would be great, but it’s not in our budget. We may drive up for a visit and see how things look…
Anon
I’m also in the Bay Area. I have friends who now live just outside of Tahoe on the Nevada side, and they love it, but they’re not in Reno proper.
However, all of my other friends & acquaintances who have landed in Reno for job reasons could not wait to get back to California.
Anon
Where are your friends located exactly?
Anon
Incline Village area.
Anon
Yeah, we moved from the Bay Area to the Midwest, so I get the desire to move to somewhere with less traffic nad a less insane cost of living. But Reno is depressing as h3ll. Just driving through it makes me depressed. I can’t imagine living there.
It sounds like you want mountains OP, so what about Colorado?
Anon
One of my Bay Area besties moved to Boulder not too long ago. The housing market was so hot she didn’t really save any money!
Anon
Boulder is crazt expensive. Denver is not “cheap” but is much, much cheaper than the Bay Area and you can get to good skiing for a day or weekend.
anon
I went there on a group canvassing trip in 2018. We knocked doors in a neighborhood that looked identical to your regular Walnut Creek or Fremont development with single family homes. Peaceful, quiet, a little bit cookie cutter. I didn’t see all that much of the city but we went to a nice dive bar at night and ran into a zombie pub crawl. It was already somewhat purple at that time and then came the pandemic.
Anon
I live in North Tahoe (CA side) and SF. Reno has had an explosive boom in the past ten years, and there are lots of blue collar jobs (Tesla Gigafactory, warehouse distribution). There are definitely professionals in Reno, but it’s not that professional of a town, if that makes any sense. Real estate has gone crazy and it’s not as cheap as you think. It’s a very cute little city, and it does have some really love neighborhoods. But it’s still an ex-casino town, so there’s some very, very seedy parts. It’s very hot in the summer, but the access to Tahoe and surrounds is amazing, so you can escape to the mountains for relief.
If you are really looking to move to Reno for tax reasons or a cheaper cost of living, I encourage you to look at Incline Village. You’re in Tahoe proper, they have amazing rec center, golf course, private beaches, quite good schools, and if you are coming from CA, you will see that RE prices are not dirt cheap, but you can buy a house for a “reasonable” price.
Reno has a really vibrant food scene, with good restaurants and chefs that could not afford to open restaurants in the Bay Area. It really is cuter than you think. I encourage you to spend a weekend in Reno and see if it’s for you. And also in Incline too.
Anon
Thank you! I never thought of Incline Villege, but that sounds promising.
Cat
I’m sorry no, these pants are not workwear. These are designer sweatpants.
In-House Anon
Okay, as someone who is starting to go into the office more frequently after 10 years WFH, I’m glad to have my instincts on these validated!
Anonymous
From a brand that only goes up to size 10 and is over $400? Hard pass here!
Anon
Yeah these are ridiculous.
Anon
I opened this page this morning and thought “hammer pants”
Anon
Yeah these are awful. For comfy workwear pants that look like soft pants, I much prefer the JCF pin tuck sweatpants
Anon
I love them and would wear them, but I live in a part of the world where flowy pants are workwear.
Anon
Hard agree.
anon
my cashmere sweaters all look like they have been chewed despite washing them on delicate in mesh bags with special fancy detergent. I hate to get them dry cleaned (expense and they never smell fresh). Suggestions? thoughts? Any luck with one of those shaving razors?
Mantra Magic
Get a cashmere comb. Periodic removal of pills is part of taking care of cashmere. Try that before dry cleaning. A cashmere comb is more gentle than an electric razor.
Anon
Hand wash and +1 to using a comb.
Anonymous
For hand washing, try Soak or Eucalan detergent. They are marketed as no-rinse but I still rinse.
Cat
I tried the electric shaver recently and it works amazingly. Previously I used one of those abrasive blocks and that was no good (didn’t work well and damages the fibers). The shaver was like $10 and is satisfying to use and has made my sweaters look new again.
Anon
Hand wash them and buy higher quality cashmere.
anon
I’m the original poster. i’m not sure there is such thing as higher quality anymore. these are not inexpensive sweaters– one is vince, one is j crew, one is “naked” which is suppose to be better…. i never used to have this issue even with less expensive ones (used to get store brand ones like lord and taylor)…
Anon
https://lifehacker.com/stop-buying-bad-cashmere-sweaters-1849854041
anon
I love J Crew’s cuts and styles, but J Crew does not have high quality construction. There are still brands out there that source better quality cashmere: Max Mara, Brunello Cucinelli, Jil Sander among others. But I can’t imagine machine washing sweaters from those brands either. There’s a reason the tags say to Dry Clean Only, after all.
Eliza
Vince and Crew, despite their prices, aren’t great quality cashmere. Most of mine are from Eric Bompard. I have some that are over 10 years old and they still look like new. My more recent purchases have been just as well-made.
Anon
In the future, hand wash only with a no-rinse detergent. I would also recommend a sweater stone over a shaver.
Anon
I love Euclan personally. I’m a knitter and that seems to be what we tend to use.
Anon
So certain cashmere, even if it cost a lot, will not launder well, because the twist of the yarn is too loose. This will mean that if you wash it, it will become fuzzy. I recommend dry cleaning for this reason.
Anon
Hand wash and roll in towel. Never machine wash or dryclean.
Transition Tips for Laterals?
Any lawyers who lateraled have advice for the transition? Things you wish you’d known before you gave notice? Questions you are glad you asked of the new firm? Good scripts for talking to clients you hope/expect will come with you? (Non-equity partner heading to a midsize firm from a boutique shop.) Appreciate any thoughts – from the mundane to big-picture. Thanks!
Anon
If there is anything you want to save from your first job, e.g., contacts, work samples, research files, have that taken care off and, ideally, off of the premises (or stored electronically on something that is not theirs) before you give notice. The two firms I have left for other firms were both way nicer than they had to be and very generous, but you never know. If your phone is theirs, be prepared for them to shut it off before you get to the parking lot. Just assume they’re not going to take it well and then be pleasantly surprised when you are wrong. As for clients, there is no magic phrasing there. You send a generic email that is coordinated with your firm, but you personally call anyone you want to take with you. Clients know how this works; if they want to explore following you, they will ask.
Anonymous
I’m curious if anyone knows the right answer about whether a firm can technically prevent you from taking all this stuff. Lawyers don’t usually have noncompetes so I don’t see anything wrong with taking your own client/contact list, assuming you’re not trying to access and take the firm’s client list. I struggle with the question of templates and research files. If you’re salaried then you are being paid for the time you’ve spent developing those files even if it’s non billable time, which arguably means the firm owns that work product (if it was done for a client then the client owns it). OTOH lawyers have a professional duty to stay informed and up to date. Even if you weren’t employed by the firm, you’d be doing the work necessary to keep on top of your professional duties. So the act of compiling research, your changes to your templates to reflect the latest guidance – I’m not sure it’s fair to say those belong to the firm because you’re salaried, when those are things you’d do regardless of your employment.
Anon
Regardless of the right answer, the firm owns the means of access-the office, the server, the laptop, which is why my advice is to get everything you want to keep off of the premises before giving notice.
Anonymous
Be prepared for your firm to lock you out of your computer etc. when you give notice. They might not, but better to be safe than sorry. Every firm I’ve worked for has taken the position that the departing attorney can take NO documents or information whatsoever, even public filings, even your contact list saved in outlook. For example, I keep (physical) folders of examples of various publicly available pleadings, like a folder of a particular type of complaint, etc. Sometimes they’re things I’ve drafted but usually it’s from opposing counsel that I was impressed with. My last firm had someone go through my office the day I gave notice and took (destroyed) all of those folders. When I said these are public documents they’re not client files or confidential documents, they said then the new firm can pay to pull them from the docket. It was really annoying to reinvent the wheel when I came to my new firm. At my current firm, when a colleague left they tried to prevent him from taking his contact list with him. I stuck up for him and he was able to at least print it and take it. We don’t have noncompetes, there is nothing wrongful about keeping a list of your own contacts.
Your firm may have a form for this, but usually you/the firm send a letter to the client asking them if they want to stay with the firm or move with you, and if they’re moving with you, the letter will include a request to transfer the client’s files. Your bar’s ethical rules probably set a deadline for the firm to move the files.
Cat
I would imagine things like poaching would be addressed in your partnership agreement so do dust that off.
Be prepared to be asked to leave the building immediately.
Anonymous
If she’s nonequity she doesn’t have a partnership agreement.
Anon
I’m non equity and have a partnership agreement. Must vary among firms.
Anon
My tip–print out documents you need. Ferret them home. Do this over a period of weeks, not all in a weekend or a last week. If you have any checklists, precedents or specific docs that are useful, bring ’em. You will maintain confidentiality. (This is controversial, but as another poster mentioned, it’s much worse to reinvent the wheel.) Be judicious.
Make sure you have a list of conflicts from Conflicts or from your billing software.
Download passwords and logins for any benefits you need (FSA, 401K, etc.)
Anon
Talk to me about working for the federal government! The amazing, the good, the bad, the ugly. I already accepted the job, so now I’m just pondering about my new future life. It’s with the Treasury if that matters.
Anon
I’ll add I’ve spent the last decade in the private sector.
Anon
Where I live they always get way more time off than state employees (like myself). They get a half day before just about every holiday. On the other hand, we’ve never had a government shutdown.
anony
I spent 15 years in a firm and then moved to be a fed a couple years ago. Aside from the obvious pay cut and some bureaucratic stuff I love it. People care about the mission, not making as much money as possible. No work or email out of the office and a vacation is a true vacation. Reasonable hours and overtime for over 40h/week. No constant feeling of you’re not doing enough because there is always more work to be done, clients to get, bus dev activities you should be doing. Snow days. A lot of vacation once you’ve hit 15y (make sure you ask how to fill out the form to get credit for non-fed service — there are intermediate bumps after different years), and colleagues who actually understand when people go on vacation. Real sick days (which I’m on now). A small pension. Some downsides: there are rules and processes for everything, including personnel stuff, which seem more rigid than at a firm, but just talk to people who’ve been around. Pay, obviously. Maybe a little bit of culture shock in that not everyone is a grinder — so having grown up in a grinding culture I have to resist thinking that others are lazy for not trying harder. I know this sounds ageist, but it’s a real difference working with younger people in mid 20s-30s who have only ever worked in govt — they haven’t had a high pressure formative career environment.
anony
Oh, and another downside for people is potentially less remote work and ability to relocate and keep your job, but it depends on the Agency.
anon
+1 to all of this.
It’s not perfect, like any other jobs out there, but actually getting to go on vacation without guilt, not worrying about hitting billable hours target and not having to do biz dev have done wonders for my sanity. I also specifically wanted to have government health insurance in retirement (it starts earlier than Medicare which means I can retire earlier).
TelcoLadyJD
I worked in big, medium, and small law for 8 years (the small law firm was acquired by the medium law firm), and then joined a federal agency in 2019.
Upside:
**I almost never work nights or weekends. I can think of perhaps 5 times in five years where I’ve HAD to work on a night or weekend to meet a deadline. I will say that this varies widely depending on agency and position. My litigator friends at DOJ, for instance, work nights and weekends frequently.
**Credit hours for days longer than 8.5 hours. You can get up to two credit hours per day without supervisor approval when your day exceeds 8.5 hours, and can carry up to 24 credit hours at a time. If you’re having to put in longer days, you can recoup that time later on.
**Real vacation time. There is no expectation that you bring your computer or check your phone while on vacation – though many people do.
**Job security. I have two friends who’ve been laid off in the last year. Knowing that my job is secure absent something wildly unexpected is great.
Downside:
**You’ll likely get paid less – though this isn’t always true. I was definitely underpaid (one of the reasons I left) and my salary largely stayed the same, PLUS I now have a 401K match and better health insurance than I had at my last firm. I’m being paid SIGNIFICANTLY more per hour that I work now than I ever did in private practice.
**You might have less flexibility. I find that this varies widely by agency, bureau, and even division. I work from home four days a week, and have a ton of flexibility as to how I get my hours in – but this is largely because my supervisors are awesome.
**Less “fun” stuff. Most government parties are pot lucks with no booze. LOL. Just the way it is. There are a lot of ethics rules regarding gifts/invitations of value.
In general – I’ve found that your quality of life in government seems MUCH more dependent on your supervisors than in private practice/the private sector. They can really make or break how much flexibility you have, and turnover is MUCH less than in the private sector. I’ve been at my agency for five years, been a lawyer for thirteen, and I’m the second most junior person in my division. So…whoever you have….you’re much more likely to be stuck with.
anon for this
Treasury alum here. Congrats! It’s a great place to work – full of extremely smart, mission-driven people. The building itself is beautiful (if you’ll be working at Main Treasury) and I found it inspiring to work next to the White House. Volunteer for projects, you’ll get exposure to things broader than your initial remit quickly. Culture tends slightly to finance-bro, but that’s to be expected, and I hear it’s much better under current leadership. Benefits are great. The only downside to joining the government is how long it takes to accrue leave, but the time passes quickly and you’ll get to the next level quickly.
Anon
What everyone else said.
And all the sick leave (it accumulates pretty much indefinitely) is no joke, as I sit here on my second week of COVID.
Depending on your field, you probably could make more in the private sector, but the benefits and stability balance that out, in my opinion. It’s nice to feel part of a mission, even if your day to day work is pretty tedious. There are a lot of rules to follow and it’s true about the parties – no booze, potluck and/or pay to attend. But I do not find this to be a hardship.
The constant budget fights can also be irritating and in some cases, makes it harder for us to do our jobs. I don’t know what it’s like across all agencies, but we’ve been told our travel budgets are being cut to close to zero – like, maybe you could travel to a meeting every other year. Maybe. I don’t love traveling for work, so I don’t care, but others might.
anon
18 year fed here – echoing all the pros and cons above. This has become a bigger issue since the last election, a change in the administration could mean a drastic change in your mission or your office getting scrapped altogether.
Anonymous
I’m the poster from yesterday asking about POA options for my grandfather-in-law. I wasn’t able to make it back to the post yesterday, but wanted to thank you all for the great information and recommendations! As always, the situation is a little more complicated than what I could fit in an already long post, but as a couple of you surmised my DH and I are not local to MIL/GIL – there are no other family members in that city. In addition to his son, GIL has 12 grandchildren and all but 3 of them live in SoCal, along with scores of great-grandchildren (many of whom are young adults themselves now) which was why California is being considered. We are trying to be supportive of my MIL without dictating what has to happen – she is clear-eyed and rational about it, we’re just trying to make sure we look at it from all angles to arrive at the best possible option. I’m mostly a lurker, but I really appreciate this community and have learned a lot here!
Anonymous
This makes SoCal more of an option but I still think you need some kind of grandkid help into the mix vs everything on your MIL.
No Problem
I agree, it’s time for a grandkid to step up. Somebody must be a lawyer/accountant/social worker/nurse/other responsible professional who can navigate taking on a POA. For better or worse, it’s probably only going to be a few years they need to do it.
Anonymous
I don’t see how this is your MIL’s responsibility since GIL is the father of your late FIL, not her father. It’s time for the children or grandchildren to step up. When they take over they can decide where it makes sense for him to live, with his input if appropriate.
anecdata
Ah, thanks for the context! I don’t know if your GIL has expressed a preference, but for my grandma, being in the same area as a large bulk of her grandkids and great grandkids is a really big quality of life boost
Anon
Is there a “very curvy” option for Talbots pants? I have a lot of stomach/hip/thigh acreage relative to my waist and the higher-rise pants I got fit in the seat (a major challenge these days — perimenopausal body changes), but the waist is just floating to the points where the pants droop. I think that the rise may be too high for my body, so just taking the waist in may not be possible over the stomach (or is a frequent issue with alterations fails, where it is taking in too severely when the waist is blended into the line of the pants). Otherwise, I’m happy to have a B- fitting item that isn’t painful to wear or inappropriate for the office. Talbots worked for me 10-15 years ago, but that was also another (still pear-shaped) body ago.
Anon
This is the job for a tailor. You’re unlikely to find something that works off the rack.
Anon
Right. You take those pants to someone, even the sewist at your dry cleaners. They can take in the waist band.
Anon
So you’re saying their curvy fits don’t work for you? No, there’s nothing curvier than curvy. I’d have those altered or search elsewhere.
Anon
I think Eloquii is the only place I’ve seen anything like extra curvy.
anon
I have a similar shape/problem.
Pants just… don’t really work. And tailoring often fails too because of the proportions. I just can’t get the pants on if they are tailored to my relatively smaller waist. Plus the fact that my abdomen fluctuates from hour to hour/day to day…
I accept that I will always have waist gap. Thick good quality fabric with give/stretch is best. Have to have a high enough rise, but not too high. Layers/drape/avoid exposing the actual top of the pantline at all costs. Because pants with stretch often loose shape over time, you must keep an eye on them and replace when the become malformed/unflattering/droopy. I do NOT wear the “work pants” made of scuba type body-hugging fabrics that are stretchy but are not at all work appropriate to me…. highlighting every curve and making people stare at my rear.
Skirts are better. Or jump suits… or the illusion of one. I wear a lot of columns of color where tops overlap the waistline of my bottoms so the eye isn’t drawn to the imperfections, with a 3rd piece that pops a little/contrasts. Or I do monochromatic/tonal for the outfit, with great shoes.
NaoNao
I hope this doesn’t sound sassy, but that might be the job for a belt! I’ve noticed that belting pants/trousers/jeans has kind of dropped off the radar as an option for people, but cinching a looser waist on pants is *literally* it’s job–also holding up slightly loose pants!
Anon
Ha! OP here and I thought of that and thanks to the pandemic and wearing leggings for a year (schools closed for a LONG time and then staggered so one kid was home on any given day), one belt had shredded, one belt was too skinny to be functional, and one was a band of elastic and a clip and just didn’t look office-appropriate. Many were too wide for the belt loops. I thought about a scarf, but then realized that it was a lot of look and maybe better not to call attention to the area. If I had a good belt, I’d be wearing it. Apparently, I don’t have the right belt for this. Yet. Unlike my husband, who needs a belt, I’ve never needed one before — they were just for looks vs for function with pants.
Anon
Yup, I have to wear belts with all my bonus. And tucking in a top to high-waisted pants and wearing a belt is a current look.
Anon
*pants not bonus!
Anon
Talbots has a mid rise cut which may work for you. If you’re on the website, it’s described as “hits at waist.” I wear their curvy jeans but can only wear the mid rise, for some reason the higher rise (“hits above waist”) really doesn’t work for me. If the mid rise is too high, maybe try it in petite.
Anon
You should take your measurements and compare to the size chart on their website.
Anonymous
I have always found Loft curvy pants to be more forgiving and I wear a lot of Talbots stuff. Their pants just never worked really well for me.
time to cook
I’m finally going to try one of those meal prep services. In the interest of saving some money, does any one have a referral code or the like for Hello Fresh, Blue Apron, or any of their competitors? TIA!
Anon
Post a burner and I will give you a free box (which I think is three meals).
time to cook
anon561313@gmail.com
thank you!
Anon
Eek, that’s a free box of Hello Fresh.
Anon
I think I have a few free hello fresh boxes if anyone wants.
Anonymous
Blue apron didn’t save us much time at all compared to cooking easy weeknight dinners. To really save time, you want something like Territory or Mighty Meals, which send already-prepped meals that you just heat up.
Roth 401(k)
Could use some advice re: Roth 401(k). I earned about $125K in 2023 and maxed out my 401(k), half in traditional and half in a Roth 401(k). I usually end up getting a refund when I file my taxes, but this time, I find that I owe about $1,500. I know that getting a refund is basically just giving the government an interest-free loan, but I prefer that to owing taxes from a planning perspective (I don’t miss the paycheck difference throughout the year and automatically allocate whatever the tax refund ends up being to savings).
Is this just what happens at this income level and beyond? I earned $120k in 2022 but didn’t utilize the Roth 401(k) option and 2021 and before, I was earning <60K). Should I be changing my withholdings? I am single with no dependents if that matters.
Anonymous
Yes, adjust your withholdings. Or plan for it and set aside $150/month
anon
I earn similar to you and have zero withholding. This should take care of the taxes you owe on your W-2 where you don’t owe any extra come April 15 nor does the government owe you a large refund. Where things start to vary is your extra earnings in investments and how much you claim for deductions (standard, or itemized). Did anything else change other than the Roth contribution? I would think the taxes on that would be automatically deducted from your paycheck.
rot
That’s what I thought, but then I did my taxes and find that I owe….
Standard deduction (as has been the case for a few years)
1099 for interest on my HYSA (there was more in my emergency fund this year, but that was the only change, I don’t think that can account for the change from $800 refund last year to owing almost double that this year)
I did open a taxable brokerage account in 2023 (yay for finally earning enough to have money for that!!), but it doesn’t have much in it so I don’t think tax on dividends should account for that either.
Roth 401(k)
whoops, I think this posted too early, Please see below for my full response
Roth 401(k)
That’s what I thought, but I went from a refund of ~$800 last year to owing nearly twice as much this year. The only changes I can think of are
1) switching to dividing my retirement contributions half into a normal 401(k) and half into a Roth 401(k)
2) opening a taxable brokerage (yay for finally have money to do that!!). I got a 1099 from them but don’t think this is the reason as it has less than $2,500 in it
3) more in my HYSA that holds my emergency fund (but again, the amount isn’t drastically more, so I don’t think interest income from the 1099 is the culprit here either)
I’m planning on going through everything again in detail to confirm that I didn’t just make a mistake while doing my taxes, but thought I would also ask here if anyone else had ever experienced something similar.
Anon
Using the Roth option means more of your income counts as taxable. Using the traditional option lowers your tax liability. Have you run through some calculators to test the difference each makes?
Roth 401(k)
That part makes sense to me. I tried to ask the financial advisor (one reached out to me through my work’s retirement plan so I thought getting some expertise would be good), but he said he couldn’t help me with anything that involved unless I signed up as a client. Are there online calculators you trust?
Gaslighting coworker
I work with a coworker who constantly gaslights. My boss is not the confrontational type and isn’t going to do anything about it.
It is driving me insane. It impacts me because I constantly have to pick up the slack.
I hope someone here has some tips to offer on how to deal with this person and not lose my sanity.
Anon
Find another job.
Gaslighting coworker
I wish I could, I’m not in the position to do so at the moment.
NaoNao
I would try to find a way to make it boss’ issue. Whatever dropped balls or fire drills come up due to the gaslighting, (which you of course will now combat with extensive documentation on your end!) pass the buck to the boss if you can.
Start cc’ing the boss.
Start cc’ing the mega-boss.
You could just go to the mat with her and be like “You’re mistaken, and what you’re saying isn’t going to change reality. I need X files by EOD. Please get them to me.” Just basically hard-line her. She’s already shown you she’s a weasel and a jerk. I had one of those and I wish I had stood up to him, but I get the weird paralysis they put you under like “am I mistaken? did I say that? am I losing it?” etc.
Anonymous
You’ll have to keep a written record about everything. If you must talk to this person then follow up with a CYA email memorializing the conversation. That way when they say you never told them something, you forward them the email where you told them the thing. It’s super annoying but it’s the only way to deal with people like this.
Anonymous
This. I sometimes use email for my notes to file but when dealing with someone like this I 100% memorialize via email to the other person.
Even if you can’t it on the daily, make a point of a weekly round up or something so things can’t hang out there too long where they can claim you didn’t tell them something.
anonshmanon
I really want to believe that this is the correct answer – has this worked for you in practice?
Anonymous
It depends. Who is going to be looking at this evidence and will they care. The person who’s doing it isn’t going to care if you’re right, they’ll make some excuse, but it can be helpful to document the issues so you can elevate. Even then, sometimes the truth matters, sometimes it doesn’t. If you’re an at will employee and your boss wants to fire you then it matters little whether you can prove that you didn’t do anything wrong. You might be able to get laid off instead of terminated for cause, which is important but also sort of cold comfort.
With a peer, if you have a decent supervisor who will act on this then sure it helps, but if you’re having this kind of problem with a coworker then chances are you don’t have a good supervisor. Ime my supervisors have rarely cared who is right, they just want the job done, and if it’s not done then everyone involved looks bad regardless of whether it’s their fault.
I find it most effective with subordinates. Even if everyone is trying their best, miscommunications happen. Some people are really not good at listening to instructions but reading is better. And if you have a problem with an employee it is really really helpful to be able to document that very clearly. I don’t know if this is unique to law firms, but it has always taken a LOT for me to get staff reassigned. Like I’m assigned one billing person who I must work with but she doesn’t send me my bills in a timely manner, then I get nastygrams about not sending out my bills on time. We have dozens of people in that department please give me someone else. But nothing changes until I document the problem, what I did to address it, what was the result, and I can show that this is a pattern that isn’t changing.
ALT
This is such a dumb question but whatever. I machine wash (on delicate/wool cycle) a lot of my sturdier work sweaters like the J Crew sweater blazers. I also air dry them. However, they always seem to have so much hair/lint/pet fur on them! I don’t have this issue with clothes I run through the dryer but I’m scared these will shrink if I put them in the dryer even on low.
Ideas? Is there a washer lint trap situation I need to clean? Or some gadget I need to throw in yeh washer?
Anon
Lint rollers.
Anonymous
Stop putting hair, pet hair, and lint into the washing machine! If you have to run a lint roller over everything before you wash it then that’s what you have to do.