Suit of the Week: M.M.LaFleur

258 Comments

1. Are indigenous land acknowledgements a thing in the US? Presenting at a conference in the US and typically in Canada we do a land acknowledgement before a presentation. The place I’m presenting at is the traditional territory of some nations.

   1. Yes, they are absolutely a thing where I live.

      1. Merci! I will make sure to keep the acknowledgement in my presentation.

      2. I feel like this would only happen at universities and possibly some nonprofit conferences. Outside of that, would get eyerolls.

         1. Not where I live. They’re very common.

            1. It seems to matter 100% where you live. IDK where the above poster lives or works, but I’d take everything you read here and read it through that lens vs where you are going geographically and what sort of thing you are speaking at. I adopt a when in Rome approach and wouldn’t want to be memorable in a bad way for making the wrong call here.

   2. Not really. They aren’t unheard of but much less common than Australia or Canada.

   3. They’re definitely a thing in academia in the US, but academics skew left of center to put it mildly.

   4. Red state or blue state? I have only heard them in blue states.

      1. In academia, it is common in the US regardless of geographic location. In general I don’t think the location of the conference is that relevant – there are presenters and attendees from all over, right?

   5. I guess that this will never get done in Europe or the middle east.

      1. Why would it get done in Europe

         1. People don’t think about it as much in Europe because both sides are white, but almost anytime in history that land has been conquered, it’s almost certainly ended with abysmal treatment, murder and human rights abuses of the losers. Whether it’s the Romans defeating the Gauls or the English occupation of Ireland or the Nazis enslaving the Slavs or the slaughter of the Bosniaks in Srebrenica or the recent news about the torture suffered by Ukrainian POWs, those living in conquered lands do not fare well.

            Awful treatment of natives is obviously not purely an American problem

            1. Are you really comparing the Romans vs. the Gauls (literal ancient history) to the ongoing oppression of Indigenous peoples in North and South America? Wow.

            2. Coming from one of the territories conquered by the Roman Empire (and then by a succession of other empires), and which is part of the European Union today, I sympathize with the point that violent conquest and occupation is definitely not a uniquely US problem. However, I also feel like we studied that adequately in history class throughout middle school and high school. What I find remarkable living in the US now is the degree to which the awareness of living on colonized land is almost non-existent, in ways that matter to how everyday matters get handled. The “build the wall” sentiment of the previous presidency is unfortunately onely one example. There are lots of conversations even in “polite” society about how the people who live here now “own” the land (nationally, and invidually through real estate transactions), with little acknowledgment that most of us arrived here as colonists – yes, even the refugees, even the economic migrants.

               To me, hearing land acknowledgments, no matter how perfunctory or sincere they may seem, is at least a gesture to acknowledge the colonial history and the accompanying genocide (literal and cultural). It doesn’t fix anything, but I prefer is to pretending there’s nothing the matter.

      2. I think this is regional. In the northeast (unless related to the topic), in the west it’s much more common.

   6. How is that in Canada? IIRC, Canada has a fairly large population as a result of recent immigration (as opposed to where everyone is white and a descendant of conquistador-type people from Europe).

      1. Just to push back on this a little bit but even in the US and Canada, lots of white immigrants aren’t descended from conquistador types. Not to be controversial, but plenty of white Europeans who immigrated to North America were fleeing pretty sh!tty situations. As the descendent of Irish abd Polish immigrants I certainly have white American privilege but my grandparents and their ancestors grew up pretty dang oppressed.

         1. Yeah my ancestors who fled Nazi Germany would hardly be described as conquistadors. They were refugees. I absolutely have white privilege, but lets not act like every white person in America came here on the Mayflower.

            1. Unfortunately Indigenous people were not able to flee to safety.

            2. Yup. I’m a 3rd generation white American but I have ancestors who were genocide survivors in Europe. I absolutely benefit due to white privilege but my ancestors were absolutely discriminated against and subject t atrocities.

            3. Yeah and a lot of people also weren’t able to flee from the nazis.

         2. Okay and wtf does that have to do with indigenous land acknowledgements??

            1. I was thinking the same thing.

         3. To clarify: I’m pushing back on the idea that white people in the Americas are all descended from conquistador types, not pushing back on the concept of indigenous land acknowledgments!

      2. Not OP but confused why you think occupation by later coming settlers means that Indigenous land and traditional territories would not be acknowledge. These are traditional territories regardless of when the settlers showed up.

         Many areas of land in Canada are unceded and subject to active treaty negotiations. As in, almost every single province has treaty negotiations ongoing.

      3. My understanding of land acknowledgements is not an admission of ‘my ancestors did bad things’, but rather an acknowledgement of ‘bad things were done to the peoples who lived here’ and if the speaker is really committed ‘and I benefit in part from that which was taken from them’ (e.g. working at land grant universities)

         1. This. North America was not vacant land. It was taken from Indigenous peoples who still live here. Who has moved here since and their particular economic circumstances in coming here are not relevant. It’s not about settlers, whatever their circumstances, it is about the traditional territories of Indigenous peoples.

         2. I don’t think the pushback was about the land acknowledgments. It was about the idea that all white people have bad ancestors. My maternal side has been in the US since the 1600s and I could sign up for Daughters of the American Revolution based on my ancestory. My paternal side is from Lithuania and my dad was a first generation immigrant. Pretty sure my anscestors spent their lives trying not to die in wars between Russia and Poland.

            1. Sure but at the end of the day we’re all still living on land that was stolen from Indigenous people, which is the whole point of land acknowledgements.

            2. Sorry, I meant to post this reply to a comment above.

            3. Later immigrants benefit from the land taken from Indigenous peoples just as much. You don’t have to personally do the thing to benefit from it. Neither I nor my ancestors owned slaves, it doesn’t mean that I don’t still benefit from white privilege.

               The horrible treatment of Indigenous people is not ‘ancient history’. Plenty of horrible wrongs have been committed in the last 30-50 years.

            4. To be clear, every immigrant to America has benefited from this. Not just the white ones.

            5. that was exactly my point – acknowledging a claim to the land of the local indigenous peoples has nothing to do with whether the person doing the acknowledgement is a descendant of colonialist settlers. It’s not relevant whether your family came here hundreds of years ago or last year or whether they were trying to make it big or fleeing from something or even brought here against their will. It’s an simple plain acknowledgement of the indigenous history as fact, and saying ‘I acknowledge that it happened and it wasn’t right’. One’s own role/impact/perception of blame doesn’t really come into play here.
               It’s like when a friend is venting about something horrible or tragic, you don’t need to have a connection to their struggle or identify who’s to blame, just to be able to say ‘I’m sorry that you are going through this, that sucks’.

            6. But this is what I find so strange about them. If I had something tragic happen to me, the absolute last thing I’d want is for random people to acknowledge it at every single event I showed up for, at events that had absolutely nothing to do with me, nothing to do with the event I’m attending, and certainly nothing to do with helping me recover from that tragic event. I’d find it outright offensive that people were making themselves feel good by talking about this tragic thing that had happened to me, but not actually doing anything to help me! I think there are some places where they do make sense, but just throwing them around willy nilly seems actually sort of trivializing.

            7. You are not wrong! A mere lip-service land acknowledgement is not meaningful, and your opinion that it does more harm than good is certainly shared by many. It should be a part of a greater effort to highlight indigenous voices and experiences, giving equal opportunities and possibly reparations. I think it has some, symbolic value to make the acknowledgement in certain contexts, also because atrocities like that tend to be ignored and erased.
               About the part that an indigenous person would continuously be reminded of painful history – I guess like many other DEI interventions, in an ideal world, we wouldn’t do this. This one is really more directed at the majority (white people), to draw attention, to educate. It’s ironic that if those spaces did become more diverse, the likelihood that certain interventions end up bringing pain to underrepresented group goes up. Reminds me of quotas – we wouldn’t want them in a true meritocratic system, but we aren’t there yet so maybe we should consider them in some fashion.

      4. It’s an acknowledgement that the land you’re standing on/speaking from is the ancestral, unceded territory of whatever Indigenous nation originally lived there.

         1. +1

   7. Very uncommon in my blue area of the NE. I do have a friend in graduate school at a land grant university in a purple / red area and each class starts with an acknowledgment.

      Tbh, I think doing this makes sense in some contexts but can be overkill in others.

      1. I see them a lot (I live in the Southwest) and they’re expected in academia. That said, there’s some sense that they’re perfunctory, or they allow an institution to look like they care about Indigenous populations without taking any real action.

   8. I’ve only heard one once, and my impression was that half the room rolled their eyes or had no idea what was going on. Just be aware the reception it might get, depending on your audience.

      1. Same here (have heard more than one, but all at the same place). And I’m in Los Angeles where you’d expect people to be more sophisticated.

         1. I don’t think it’s about sophistication. A lot of thoughtful people find this to be performative rather than meaningful.

            1. But a lot of people just plain don’t know what it is.

      2. And…that would be the rude and possibly racist part of the room.

         Seriously, why is it so hard to just acknowledge that something bad happened in the location in the past? Performative or perfunctory is better than trying to erase history, which is the far bigger threat these days. I’m in the Midwest and white and not in academia. But even I can see that acknowledging a troubled past is better than saying “you don’t get to acknowledge a troubled past because you’re not doing enough at present about it.” Like what? No, it’s more often a coded way of saying you don’t get to acknowledge a troubled past because then we can forget it happened.

         1. I actually do think performative stuff like this is actively harmful, because it enables institutions not to do anything real.

            1. Poor argument.

            2. You can’t fight for what you aren’t even aware of. That’s the far bigger risk. You’re not enabling anything other than white washing the past. Literally.

         2. Because you aren’t acknowledging all of the things that happened on the land. If Native tribes used it for mass slaughter of buffalo, would you acknowledge the environmental harm done there? If not, take a seat.

   9. Common in academia. Haven’t seen them anywhere else.

      1. I’ve seen it occasionally in industry at like a DEI focused conference but not most of the time. Even in academia, maybe… 25%? I’m sure it varies a lot by institution

   10. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/against-land-acknowledgements-native-american/620820/

       https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/analysis-how-well-meaning-land-acknowledgements-can-erase-indigenous-people-and-sanitize-history

       1. That Graeme Wood article is super gross and has so many things wrong with it I don’t even know where to start.

   11. Very common in Portland and Seattle, in my experience. I’ve seen them at plays, book readings, outdoor tours, concerts. So outdoorsy or arty, but not necessarily academic.

       Never heard of it when I lived in the Midwest.

       1. I’m in the midwest in an industry that is far from academia (industrial/construction) and have never heard of this before. Knowing the speakers, if they tried to do this it would be executed poorly.

          Interesting though.

   12. I see this frequently, but always in circles that would be considered left of center. We just moved to the PNW and the farmers’ market instagram accounts do it for every post, but the local HVAC guy we have been emailing with, absolutely not. My mom corresponds with universities all over the region and sees it frequently in email signatures there.

   13. Nothing a lot of comments on the role of geography here; I wonder if this is less common in the northeast because land was ceded in treaties (not that those treaties were right, fair, or abided by by the English), whereas in other regions land was seized and not ceded?

       1. I think it’s less common in the northeast because the indigenous population still living there is lower and so these issues are less salient. Many of the western tribes signed treaties too (whether those were honored is an another story).

   14. When I hear them, mostly in academia, they always just sound like a big F you, we took your land and there’s nothing you can do about it now but listen to us rub it in your face. They seem completely performative and I don’t understand why people do them, though I’m sympathetic to the underlying sentiment that I think they’re trying (badly) to express.

       1. Especially at institutions that do not do a great job when it comes to the curriculum or when it comes to the Indigenous student population.

   15. It has become a thing in the arts, at least in the Northeast

       1. Yes, I’ve seen acknowledgments posted in theaters and museums in NYC.

   16. I don’t mean this facetiously, nor do I think this is a reason to not do indigenous land acknowledgements, but is there any piece of land on this earth that wasn’t stolen from one group or another?

       1. Yes. There are lots of pieces of land that are still occupied by their first inhabitants, who did not steal them from anyone else because they weren’t previously occupied.

          1. Could you please elaborate as to where?

             1. New Zealand is a kind of easy and obvious example (uninhabited by humans until its Indigenous people arrived).

                In some parts of the world, people used to be less sedentist than they are now, so land ownership and land theft would have different meanings, but sometimes these traditions are as old as we can measure.

                In other parts of the world that have been sedentist and agriculturalist for a very long time, the people actually working the land may have been the “same” for millennia, while the people successively ruling them have changed quite a lot.

                My own background is Indo-European and western European, so it’s pretty wildly far from any kind of Indigenous perspective, and I think it’s easy for people with my background to just kind of ignore or forget that there are people even in Europe who have lived there since before the Indo-Europeans even showed up and as far as we can tell are descended from the earliest inhabitants of their regions.

             2. Yeah but New Zealand was still settled by Europeans, no?

                My knowledge of the treatment of indigenous peoples in that area of the world is limited to the Australian treatment of the Aboriginal which was obviously bad.

                Even if the Māori were treated well by settlers, NZ is over 70% white. So, I’d still consider much of NZ’s land to have been “stolen” by the settlers?

             3. Indigenous people make up like 15% of the population in New Zealand. While English and Māori are both official languages, English is the de facto national language.

                Even if the Māori weren’t treated as terribly as indigenous Americans were, I wouldn’t say that land in NZ wasn’t taken from them…

             4. I believe Japan is often referred to as the only country that wasn’t colonized, but I don’t know enough about Japan’s very early history to know if there were other groups in Japan that were conquered, settled, or colonized by the Japanese.

                Of course, Japan brutally conquered much of Asia in the WW2 era so it’s hands certainly aren’t clean.

             5. Uhhh New Zealand was colonized by white Europeans…

             6. Maybe I misunderstood the question! I didn’t think the question was “are there many Indigenous people who haven’t been oppressed to some degree or had land taken from them?” but “are there many Indigenous people who didn’t just steal the same land from someone else before them?”

                Not everyone everywhere lives where they live because of past conquest! Conquering isn’t a universal thing that people do. But yes there aren’t many pieces of land left on earth whose inhabitants haven’t suffered some kind of incursion or oppression (isn’t it a joke that this holds even if we’re talking about the British alone?).

   17. I have never heard of this at any conference I have been to. Mostly east coast of US and California.

       1. I am in finance in a liberal area of the East Coast and I had never heard of it until a recent presentation by Canadian University for a nonprofit I’m involved with

   18. Very common on the West Coast.

   19. I’m in Boston, not in arts or academia, which I gather from the chain is where it might show up? Never heard of such a thing – had to google it.

   20. I would ask the conference organizers if they’re local.

   21. I’m liberal but I view this as a) performative and b) something progressives do that alienates moderates.

       1. This.

          1. Not this.

          2. Spot on

   22. Is this something you plan on saying during your introduction or something you’d include in tbt program?

       1. At the conferences I’ve attended it’s often just printed on a slide. Sometimes people will say something at the beginning but it’s very brief, like one or two sentences. I do think it is more common in Canada than the US (I’d say 90% of the Canadian academics I know do this and maybe 30% of the American ones?) but definitely not unheard of here.

2. I need a laptop tote. If $ were no object, what would you get, ideally with a sleeve for a wheelie bag? I feel like MZWallace used to make my dream bag and but shifted to a lot of quilted nylon lately. Lo & Sons Seville Prima looks good. But what else is there? I’m assuming that there are no truly luxe bags in this category (which is fine). OTOH, would something like a Catalina Deluxe Tote with a laptop sleeve be a better way to go (I am prone to the occasional calamitous accident, so I’ve never had even expensive handbags, as I need to budget for an item and its eventual replacement). I’m currently throwing a laptop sleeve into a nylon bag from a conference, but would love an elevated version of this maybe with the wheelie bag sleeve.

   1. A Tumi tote does exactly what you need and I think they look very professional. I’ve used one for years and years and they hold up great. I’ve even put it in the washing machine.

      1. You can get Tumi totes on TRR for pretty cheap.

      2. Is Tumi sold in stores vs just on a website? Would like to check out IRL if possible. Intrigued that they have monograms — they are a serious weakness and tiebreaker factor.

         1. Yes, they have stores and I think they’re carried at Nordstrom (and possibly other department stores).

3. I’m a lawyer, I’m at a small firm so I am the only partner on several matters. A client has a lot of stressful things happening: regulatory change, a lawsuit over a contract, etc. I met with the client on Monday about the current lawsuit and they chewed me out for two hours about a different settlement that was finalized last year. I helped with that settlement, I know the options they had, I remember advising options 1-3. They are upset they chose option 2, and their memory is they had to because they had no other choices. They didn’t ask me anything on Monday, didn’t accuse me of lying or anything- they seemed to be venting about how that issue wasn’t resolved the way they would have wanted, knowing what they know now, etc. they feel they could’ve done something else.

   I’m not sure what -if anything – to do to follow up on this. I don’t know whether my communication last year wasn’t clear, or whether to just leave it until/unless they ask something? Whether to make sure this case is more clear – option 1, option 2, etc.? It’s a smallish company, no lawyers in-house, about 80 employees with a very small management team. They’re smart people and I can’t tell if they need something different from me or if they are just stressed and venting in hindsight. What would you do?

   1. If the prior advice was clearly documented like in email, you could send it along with a nice note that thanks the client for their feedback and reminds the client why they picked the option they did, but note that you understand they want to take a different approach moving forward.

      1. I would not do this unless this escalates-if they were just stress venting will feel like an “I told you so” and not be taken well

   2. Check your files to see what happened so your recollection is fresh if needed, and this time around make sure the options are clear in a short memo (not just orally or an email) that they respond to in writing (or you send an email documenting the thinking that leads to whatever they decide).

   3. I would go back and check my records on the settlement. I wouldn’t necessarily revisit it with the client unless there is something different they could do now, or they explicitly revisit the topic themselves, but I would want to refresh my memory on the communication so I’m prepared if it comes up again, and also to learn any lessons that need to be learned going forward. You probably did nothing wrong and they’re just venting, but you may want to spell it out more clearly for them for any upcoming issues, and you may need to CYA more.

   4. “It’s a smallish company, no lawyers in-house, about 80 employees with a very small management team.”

      No lawyers in house, not even a JD/MBA type hired into a VP role to be both management and legal? They don’t value legal expertise. You will forever have headaches with their management because they don’t understand what lawyers do. You can spend a lot of time educating them, if they are important to you as a client.

4. After many years of being single I finally found a man that seemed great. We agreed that I would not meet his kids until we passed the 6 month mark. Kids had not met any other woman in 8 years so this was a big deal. They seem awesome, btw. We have been having a lot of summer fun.

   The problem is he feeds them quite poorly. When it was just us, he talked up his exceptional cooking skills and explained how he meal-planned. I was impressed. That all seems…not accurate any more. Every time I show up at the house there are takeout bags (“they wanted McDonalds”). Everywhere we go, it is slurpees and ice cream and candy and popcorn etc…often ALL at the same time. BF will ask kiddos what they want in the grocery store and they pick candy – meaning a 12-pack of rice krispies treats that they tear into in the parking lot. Or a large tub of gummy worms or whatever. Lots of soda and energy drinks. Basically every day is Halloween. Kiddos are 8 and 10. Thicker but not overweight (yet?).

   I have been telling myself that I don’t understand or see the full picture. But youngest kiddo just mentioned to me he was diagnosed a while back w chronic nosebleeds from too much soda. So I am not imaging everything. Anyway – two questions:

   1. What can I say to my BF about this? I am child-free and he commented once about people without children having opinions about his parenting.
   2. If we break up, how do I avoid this next time? I feel guilty for wasting everybody’s time. It was such a huge thing for him to introduce me to them, and possibly I am about to really disappoint them for walking just as they are becoming attached.

   1. Are you saying you might break up with him over this? (Not rhetorical, just want to make sure I understand the situation).

      If it’s really that bad, then you might as well talk to him about it, especially if the alternative is just breaking up. Maybe start with some questions/gentle observations. If you think he’s a good parent in other ways but has a blind spot here, maybe offer to help with making nutritious meals on the occasion when you are with him and the kids? If he is completely unreceptive or gets defensive, then I think you should tell him why this is a dealbreaker for you.

   2. Don’t date men with kids since you neither want to parent nor want to not be judgy about it.

      1. Yep I wrote something out and deleted it, but it boiled down to don’t date men with kids (although I’d modify to it to don’t date men with kids who are living at home or financially dependent on them — fully launched adult kids are very different).

      2. Yes, if you mean “child-free” as in “I don’t ever want to have kids”, I don’t think a partner with children is ever going to be the best fit for you, ultimately.

      3. Seriously! Why would you have even dated this man if you describe yourself as “child free”??

         1. Since when does child free mean I hate kids? I know there are some people who do try to define themselves that way, but lots of other people just use it as a more positive version of childless, where you’re not defined by what you lack. Especially if she’s single, it’s not like she even had much of an opportunity to have kids, so it hardly seems like a statement about her feelings on children.

            1. FWIW I’ve mostly heard/seen the term used meaning actively choosing to not have children with no desire to ever have children, often with the (understandable and reasonable) annoyance at ppl who say “oh you’ll change your mind someday” or the like. Not just describing someone who doesn’t have children at the moment regardless of feelings about it. FYI for the OP.

            2. I describe myself as child-free because I don’t have kids and never want to give birth or adopt, but I did date a couple of men with kids who were middle school aged. I don’t think the term means that you’d never step parent or have a close relationship with kids.

            3. FWIW, I describe myself as childfree because I don’t have kids (yet). Would love kids in the future but not yet.

            4. Childfree has come to mean people who dont ever want kids. Childless means you don’t have kids but want them. Or just say you don’t have kids yet.

   3. Hmm…I was direct with BF after meeting kid about food habits…not in front of kid. I was brief, calm, and direct.
      Not judgmental at all in tone. At the end of the day they are not your kids. All you can do is demonstrate how
      you eat when in their company. If they offer you their stuff, just say no thanks and have what you normally would eat.
      This was not a deal breaker for me, I had to live and let live. Once we were married and had more kids they were served what the adults ate and it went without issue. YMMV.

   4. 1) A step-parent’s job is not to parent, and a girlfriend is absolutely not supposed to parent. You get to have fun with the kids and respect how their dad raises them. If you can’t accept it, you can leave; though I think junk food would be a silly reason to chuck an otherwise great guy.
      2) My dad was divorced and he talks about how precious the weeks he had us were, since he only had half-custody. This meant avoiding things that might cause fights – not insisting we make our beds or policing things too closely. He doesn’t say this was necessarily the best thing, but that it’s hard to have limited time with kids and to spend any of that time being bad cop. It may be what’s going on with your boyfriend.
      3) If you must say something, I’d make sure to not mention anything about what he is currently doing or any criticism. Present instead as: “I’m trying to try out some new healthy recipes and focus on health a bit more in my daily life. Do you think kiddos would like if I cooked them some healthy food? What do they like / what can they make?”

      It’s not your place to comment on his parenting.

      1. 1000% this

      2. I was with you until 3. If you cannot talk about things you cannot be in a relationship with someone. There are ways to have the conversation without “parenting.” I get the concern and I think 2 might be what’s going here. I wouldn’t sign up for any of it unless I could freely talk to my partner.

         1. I should clarify, it’s not your problem to solve but you absolutely want insight into how he parents if you’re signing up for a relationship with him. Even if you stay out if the direct line of parenting, his choices will impact your relationship and it’s naive to think otherwise.

      3. You hit on something important in (2) and maybe that’s what OP is picking up on. I wouldn’t want to live with a guy who let his kids run wild because he is too afraid of being the bad guy to set healthy boundaries for them. I definitely would not want to live with teenagers who had been raised like that.

         1. Yes agree-can he otherwise set boundaries and this is just a tough spot for him? Also can he cook when it’s just you two or lied about that (weird but red flag)?

         2. I had this same thought. If he won’t set boundaries with the kids now, over something as important (and as simple!) as their diet, I would not look for him to set boundaries about tougher things later. And I’ve seen what it’s like when kids who have never had boundaries or expectations enforced turn into teenagers. This may be a great guy, but he’s not a good parent, and for me, that would be a dealbreaker.

   5. Honestly, if you could get chronic nosebleeds from too much soda, I would know. I do not think that this is quite accurate, despite the kid reporting is as a diagnosis. I could see a doctor telling a kid with a bad diet that as an encouragement, but absent another cause, this strikes me as BS. Heavy soda drinker from middle school on (so no coffee for me but a TON of sodas).

      1. Yeah this doesn’t seem like a real thing…my parents drink an absurd amount of Coke and have never had nosebleeds.

      2. There are times I survive on nothing Diet Coke and rage. No nosebleeds.

         1. Are you me?!

         2. Lol! Count me in. Same diet.

      3. I think that might be worth mentioning to BF at a minimum so he can correct the child’s inaccurate belief about the cause of his nosebleeds. I would bring it up more as a, hey your kid said this and that doesn’t sound right to me so I thought you should be aware. I would not bring it up as a way to talk about how much soda the kid drinks.

   6. Is how he feeds his kids a dealbreaker to you? If not, I would just not get into this. Not your circus.

      Or are you thinking something more like, you want to have kids with him also, and this would be a parenting conflict/you want to talk through how you would feed your shared kids?

   7. I married a man with children. I do not offer any advice on parenting unless he asks for it. I would not touch this issue at all.

      On the second question, I can’t tell if you are suggesting you would break up with him *over this*, or if it’s just how do you handle what happens if you do break up?

      1. +1 to the first paragraph. I married a man with kids, and I have no bio kids. I imagine I would make some parenting decisions differently than DH and his ex do – however, the same is true for how my friends parent. One of the things I imagine I would do differently is what the kids eat. However, I take the approach of not giving any parenting advice unless it is really really requested because I’ve found most people do not want to hear parenting advice from non-parents. And that is fine. I see my roll in my step-children’s life like an aunt. And I don’t tell my siblings how I think they should parent different, so I also don’t tell DH those things. Your relationship may not survive your advice about parenting, even if it’s excellent advice. And if you can’t take that approach (which is fine), I suggest not dating people with kids.

   8. You can’t say anything. It’s not your job.

   9. Yikes on bikes!

      You are already planning how to avoid this with future relationships, so it seems to me that you might already have one foot out. Here’s a stranger’s validation that it’s okay to break up for any reason at all if you are no longer feeling the relationship. FWIW, I don’t think there’s really a way to screen for this in advance unless you feel comfortable asking some very detailed, invasive, and judgmental-sounding questions on the front end.

      As for what to say to him— nothing, in my opinion! He gets to parent his kids however he wants. Is it great for them? Probably not in the long run. But it’s still between your BF and his co-parent.

      1. yeah, you sound like you’re really out the door already, and that might not be a bad thing for this guy and his kids if you’re going to be so judgy about it.

         as a parent of kids about the same age, though, DANG you are being judgy, girl. not your circus but also this is how 90% of people feed kids these ages. younger they’ll eat anything, older they can choose better eating habits, but right now this is the path of least resistance to get protein in them.

         1. I’m hardly a paragon of healthy eating, for either myself or more kids – my family eats desserts pretty much daily, and my picky eater eats almost exclusively fruit and white, bland things made from bread and cheese – but what OP described is definitely not how 90% of people feed kids this age. Of course, it’s possible she’s exaggerating. But if it’s really how she described (tons of soda, candy and constant takeout), that is not normal among any families I know.

         2. I mean, I know a lot of parents via work, family, friends. I go on vacations with some of them. I have never seen anything like this level of sugar consumption before. I grew up in a major city, very middle class, in an apartment building – not even a home. But I am that out of touch?

            It is not about judging – it is about seeing a child set up for chronic disease. My dad was diabetic. It was a horrible way for all of us to live. I would not wish it on anybody, much less a potential step-kid?

            On the plus side, apparently this man will have no trouble finding a woman that cares much less about his children’s well-being.

            1. OP, if you do dump him, you should send him over here to look for his next girlfriend, where there are a lot of single women who don’t like kids and would not care how he treats them or what he does with them, as long as the kids weren’t in their airspace. They might yell at him for being too involved of a parent because he actually feeds them, lol

         3. This is not how 90% of people feed their kids. I don’t know anyone who lets their elementary school kids drink energy drinks or demolish an entire box of cookies in the supermarket parking lot. Do lots of people go overboard with sugar/treats/take out for kids? Sure but this seems like beyond that.

            1. Yep. There are clearly some people who do not have kids and are not around kids commenting here. My kids have been around all kinds of other kids, from all walks of life, and there’s no way “90% of kids” are eating the way the OP describes. Most parents are pretty concerned about nutrition and have heard the messages about sugar and salt and fat and also eating enough fruits and vegetables, and the kids also hear those messages at school. Even my Southern good-ol-boy Texas cousins don’t feed their kids like this.

         4. This.

      2. I don’t want to be out the door! But I expected all these comments that it is none of my business.

         And if we stay together, I will love his kids. I am not capable of watching someone I love get hurt – in this case literally fed a lifetime of chronic disease – while standing silently by – because “none of my business.”

         My dad was a diabetic. I would not feed any kid to live a similar life.

         1. I can understand this. Science has proven the importance of nutrition on growing brains and bodies and the life-long health risks of childhood obesity. Also the importance of life skills like cooking.

            He obviously knows it too, if he was bragging/lying about it.

            I couldn’t stand by and watch him fail them in that way.

         2. I understand how you feel, and would feel similarly in your same situation. We definitely do not always eat as healthily as we could, but when my kids were small, I tried really hard to limit sugar and salty snacks, encourage them to eat vegetables and fruit, pushed things like hummus and carrots or yogurt as snacks, etc. Nutrition is really important for kids’ developing brains and bodies. Even if they’re not with their dad all the time, the junk they eat when they are with their dad will have effects on their health. I couldn’t sit back and watch what’s going on and not say anything, even if it isn’t my place to “parent” the kids.

            I agree that any feedback you give about the kids’ eating habits to their dad is likely to not be well-received, but I also think that anyone who is displaying poor judgment that affects a child’s health needs to be told – in an empathetic way, if possible – that they need to rethink their choices. I think if you say to him “I feel like we need to eat healthier when I’m around, and I would like to talk about some ways we can make healthier meals and buy healthier snacks” and he gets mad and breaks up with you? Bullet dodged. I would not personally sign up for a lifetime of watching someone feed their kids junk food, to the point it affects their health, and would also not want to be with someone who won’t listen to constructive feedback about something they’re doing that’s harmful to other people.

         3. That sounds to me more like the core conversation you and BF should have isn’t really the food – it’s, if you stay together, what kind of relationship & input are you going to have with his kids? What is your role going to be on parenting questions?

            Because today it is food, but there will almost certainly something else in the future you two disagree on – and you can’t solve that particular issue in advance but you can (and need to) have the “whose circus / whose monkeys” convo

            (I am assuming you’re at the stage of starting to think about “serious relationship questions”, like marriage level compatibility — also fine to just wait a while, if you’re not sure if you want to explore that kind of relationship)

   10. If you want to maintain this relationship, say absolutely nothing. If you want to break up, say absolutely nothing. It’s none of your business.

   11. A few things:

       1. He’s clearly thought about food if he has talked about cooking and meal plans. Is that something you can bond with the kids over? Like cook a meal together. My kids are 8 and 11 and they are super into learning to make eggs and other easy foods independently. Did he just talk about his exceptional cooking skills or did he ever actually cook for you?

       2. Part of a relationship is seeing if how you live your life is compatible with how they live theirs. Eat as you normally would. If they offer you candy or take out, you can decline and offer them some of whatever you are having. If you are at the store together, focus on adding the foods you like vs taking away foods you don’t love.

       3. I would avoid addressing directly by telling him to feed his kids healthier food or by telling the kids to eat less candy.

       4. If you are interested in having kids in the future, I do think that changes things a bit. Given how long he has been divorced, this is not a newly divorced dad trying to figure out how to parent/cook at mealtimes. This is how he lives. You can’t have a household where your kids together eat one way and his kids eat another. That’s going to result in fights and resentment.

   12. I think you should break up. You and your BF clearly value totally different things and if he is just letting his kids eat all the junk, you probably have just reached the tip of the iceberg on his poor judgment/parenting. That lack of judgment in parenting is going to get worse and worse as the kids get older and it is going to become a major issue in your ability to respect him as a person and to get along with his children, whose poor behavior and habits are going to seriously affect your life as they become teens. Having that kind of tension in the household is bad for everyone and it sounds like it is too late, and maybe not welcome, for you to take over with better choices and right this ship.

       I am not sure there is a way to avoid this in the future beyond being more probing early on in a relationship and making clear that you need to be on the same page or you’re out so they aren’t dishonest with you like the current BF was.

       1. Agreed. OP, you’ll get raked over the coals here cause most of the women here DESPISE stepmoms and there’s just no way you can win in their minds. That extends well beyond this board of course – most people seem to think a stepmom has to serve the kids and play “mom” by cleaning, cooking, being nurturing, going to school plays and all of that work but has ZERO say in actually parenting. And can never criticize the terrible parenting they have a front row seat to, despite paying the price for poor parenting every day. It’s completely miserable and untenable.

          A Disney dad is terribly unattractive and that’s what he is showing here with the diet. And it will get worse. I used to think I could wait it out and as the kid got older it would get better but instead it was “bigger kid, bigger problems.”

          I feel for you, it sucks to end a relationship with a man who is great except for this fundamentally unchangeable and huge thing. I learned I will die miserable and alone before I ever date a man with kids again, because being miserable and alone would be better than being treated like the garbage that most people see stepmoms as.

   13. well as a parent, this doesn’t sound like setting up great habits or expectations for the kids, but as the GF you are in a tricky spot. how often does he have the kids?

   14. Adding: You say you’ve been single many years and finally found a great guy. Gently, wanting to potentially break up over this pretty small issue and then also wanting to preemptively screen for this small issue in future men strikes me as a tendency toward control-seeking, hyper-vigilance, aiming for perfection in a way that no one will ever be able to meet your standards, and overthinking in a way that may be damaging. Life is complicated, people are complicated. If you want to be in a happy relationship, find someone you love and be kind to them and accept kindness in return. I am only saying this to look out for you, but I think if you break up over this and then try to screen others for this type of thing (or anything similar) well in advance, you are likely to spend a lot more time, if not all of your life, single. Some people are happier being single than being with someone who isn’t perfect; but if you’d prefer to be in a relationship, I suggest therapy to work on some of these control and perfectionist tendencies.

       1. This. OP, if this is a dealbreaker for you, I have to question how strongly you really want to be in a relationship.

          1. IDK – this would be a deal breaker for me. I’m vaguely nauseous thinking about that amount of sugar.

             1. Same – a lot of the replies on here are really reinforcing to me how normalized extremely unhealthy behaviors have become in the U.S. (I think it’s pretty safe to assume OP is in the U.S.) They are not normal. I’m pretty sure many adults in other developed countries outside the U.S. would be equally horrified by this.

       2. The control piece is important to think about. I’m a type A person. I either care about a thing and need to exert maximum control over it or I don’t care at all and go along with whatever someone else wants. I would say I’m about 30/70 things in my life that I care/don’t care about.

          I cannot date a guy with kids. There will always be something you disagree with about his parenting. That will only get worse if you move in together and the things you disagree with are suddenly impacting your home life. I think you have to be a pretty laid back go with the flow person to be partnered with a parent – or if you’re like me then 100% of kid-related things have to fall into that don’t care bucket.

   15. Energy drinks for elementary school kids? Wow. Is he going to buy them beer as teenagers as well. Too much sugar is one thing, energy drinks are actual dangerous for kids that are only 8.

   16. Paging Monday, who is a step-parent and always has thoughtful advice.

       1. This is the sweetest, Vicki! I’m in a time crunch right now but can try to return to the thread.

   17. If you say anything then you should focus on the actual concrete impact on you and the kids, not your philosophy on childhood nutrition. I once dated a guy who had an 8 y/o diagnosed with ADHD and ODD. The kid didn’t sleep at night – woke dad/us up several times every night – and fell asleep at school during the day. Both parents fed the child tons of sugar and snacks – an entire pint of ice cream before bed was a daily routine – all while upping the kid’s meds. I asked my BF if he considered the impact of diet on the child’s behavior and sleep patterns. He said the doctor wasn’t concerned because the kid is a healthy weight. I don’t believe that for a second. BF finally admitted he didn’t bother with a healthy diet because he didn’t want to fight with the kid. The couple of times I made meals or snacks for us, the kid gobbled down veggies like they were going out of style (with ranch, granted, but still much better than fries). Kid would actually ASK for veggies and dad would give him chips instead. I also asked if BF had a plan to help the kid sleep better and not forever wake us up multiple times a night, and no. I broke up with him.

       If you believe the kids are suffering, or if it is impacting your quality of life because they’re bouncing off the walls and waking you up all night, yeah you can say something. If the relationship has a chance then he has to be able to listen to you about things that directly impact you. As the parent he gets the final say but you still deserve to be heard.

       But you should NOT say something if your point is that it’s not “healthy” to give kids so many snacks. Whether he feeds his children to your nutritional standards is really none of your business.

   18. On how to avoid it in the future, cook together. Take turns planning and cooking meals instead of eating in restaurants. People who enjoy cooking and feed themselves well are often sharing those interests with their kids. You said he talked about cooking but not clear that he ever actually cooked for you. DH cooked dinner on our third date and then cooked for me at least once a week thereafter. He’s still the better cook and better about teaching the kids how to make food as well.

   19. I don’t know if this would make you feel any better about basically being forced to observe this without having any say in it (because that’s how it is) but I was raised on junk food and seem to have turned out okay. Sometimes supper was candy. Other times it was candy and popcorn. Most breakfasts were pop tarts. If it was possible to get a nosebleed from too much soda, I would be dead, having bled out through the nose. I didn’t. I seem to have turned out okay, so far anyway. I “discovered” vegetables in college. I now relish quinoa and kale, and default meals are salads. If you want to stay, just model healthy eating and avoid any commentary on his parenting.

       1. That’s great, but statistically you are the anomaly. Most people raised on this date have poorer long-term health outcomes.

   20. Thanks for all the feedbacks. I’ll break up with him tomorrow, so he can find a woman that cares less about the long-term well-being of his children. This should be easy in the states.

       Btw I am French and these messages have shown me how universal Americans are in being very proud and defensive of their “right” to destroy themselves via processed “food.” Including to destroy the lives of their children!

       1. is this meant to be sarcastic, or are you unable to appreciate that most commenters agree that diet is not good while saying your standing as a girlfriend to actually address the issue is difficult at best?

          1. Right? Like very few people thought the diet was unproblematic.

             1. I am an American and I’m disheartened by that. But I also see the reaction to the healthy eating threads that happen here sometimes – when people get yelled at for “promoting diet culture” because they talk about eating better – and I’m not surprised. I think we have folks here who eat the way OP is describing and also feed their kids that way and are super-defensive about it. Hope you enjoy your diabetes, folks.

       2. Has one person on this board told you that THEY would consider this an acceptable diet? Or feed their kids this way?

          No. Not one.

          Be careful, French OP, how quickly you color all of us with your “universal” judgment of “Americans” as trying to destroy ourselves and our children. At least…. not the Democrats! I do think there is Republican campaign somewhere to “leave my cheeseburger alone!” or some such…..

          I don’t think you read our answers to your question carefully at all. Not at all.

          Why did you post here? You must have had some faith in our judgment, no?

          Then again…. you know how the French are…, yes?

          1. To be fair, one person did say almost everyone feeds their kids this way. But I emphatically disagree with that. And I’m in the Midwest where people tend to be heavy even by American standards. I have kids this age and we’re more liberal with sweets than many families I know, and this diet seems terrible to me.

       3. Eeek. No one is ‘destroying the lives of their children.’ Yes, it would be better to have them eat well, but you’re seeing him parent in sporadic moments, with no indication that this is how they eat at all times. This seems like a values mismatch between you and your partner, and I echo the comments that say you seem like a controlling, high-strung, judgmental person with limited ability to see nuance or ambiguity.

          1. If they are shoveling rice cereal treats down their throats in the parking lot, I’d actually suspect it isn’t how they normally eat–or they wouldn’t care that much. Now whether that’s Mom’s house or other time with Dad is a whole other question.

       4. This is a Seinfeld-esque reason to break up with someone.

          1. Haha so true.

       5. Excuse me. Kindly do not paint this American with that brush.

          I am also childless, though not by choice. I frequently take my best friend’s three sons (8-13) for an evening and for a week during the summer. When they’re with me, I often order pizza for them *because* I know it’s a treat that they don’t get at home. They just left after being with me for a week, and they wanted chicken nuggets every day for lunch, and I did it because it was easy and it was one week and we were running around to a million fun activities and it was quick and it made them happy and because I know their mom at home feeds them all-natural, balanced, home cooked meals, with lots of fresh fruit and veggies, at every meal.

          So there are lots of questions here.

          1) Do you know how they eat with their mother? Is she obsessed with weight and they only eat kale at home? Are they getting balanced meals regularly? How often does Dad have the kids? If this is a couple days a week, every week, that’s a problem, but if it’s less than that, maybe these splurges can be reined in some.

          2) I think you’re quite sensitive to this because of your dad’s diabetes. You’re coming from a place of fear and concern. Have you talked to your BF about this? Have you said, “I loved my dad but hated the way he ate and hated that he CHOSE unhealthy food and it makes me so worried for the kids. Would you mind if I cooked healthy meals for them when I’m around them? It would ease my heart.”

          3) Some other commenters commented on this, but I think the dad is worried about being the bad cop during his time with the kids. How long have they been divorced? How often does he see the kids? How was their divorce? Has it been long enough that he feels secure in his role as single dad? Does his ex bad-mouth him to the kids? If he’s worried about losing his kids’ love, being too permissive with junk food could be his grasp at staying popular/relevant with his kids. Is he this permissive with them in other areas? Did he ever cook for you before so that you know he can cook for them?

          Lots of things to think on. Good luck.

          1. I do think there’s a big difference between what you’re describing with feeding your friend’s kids whatever during a week at your house and what OP’s BF is doing. When we go out of town and leave our kids with my parents we don’t police what they feed them because it’s such a brief time period (and because they’re doing us a big favor, as are you for your friend). But a divorced dad who has his kids half or even a quarter of the time shouldn’t be treating every day like it’s a vacation. I didn’t think that’s good parenting.

             Sorry you’re childless not by choice <3

             1. Yeah I feel like the BF may be acting like fun grandma who gets to swoop in once in a while and spoil the kids with food and toys and screens. Which is totally fine in a grandparent or family friend, but not so good in a parent. And this is probably an issue that’s much bigger than food, tbh.

             2. Right, right, that was exactly my point! If he doesn’t have them often – like I have my friend’s kids maybe a couple days a month – it’s fine that they eat pizza with me. It’s fine for me to play the fun “aunt/grandma.” But what’s his custody agreement look like? How often is this? Is this every weekend? Because you can’t live life like that. But if his time with his kids is more limited, akin to what mine is with my friend’s kids, where it’s a special treat, then this leans toward being more ok. (I mean, still not awesome, but not the end of the world.)

       6. I totally get why you’re single now.

       7. You seem like an unkind and very judgmental person. Please go to therapy if you want to have a healthy relationship.

          1. Yes, I am the unkind one. I will try to be less “judgy” of adults feeling their children dangerous chemicals. That is their right, and it is not kind to say something.

             1. You’re not getting that no one wants unsolicited advice on their parenting, especially from people it does not concern. I would be livid if someone forced their own judgements and hang-ups about sugar onto my kids. Just walk away – you won’t be happy and you will make everyone miserable if you interfere in this way. Find someone without kids.

       8. If you think this man is destroying the lives of his children because he gives them too many snacks then yeah you should break up with him. And the way you “screen” for this in the future is to not date guys with kids.

       9. …over half of French adults are overweight…

       10. Ooohhh, you are French. That explains a lot! French people think their way of life is the holy grail of how to live and are extremely judgy towards anyone who does not do it the “French way.”

           1. A good friend moved to France after high school and stayed there (she’s now a citizen) and she swears French women stay skinny by smoking. Which I would argue is probably a bit worse for your health than some sofa and candy.

              1. The funny thing is that over half the French population is overweight.

              2. I mean, I’m sure French people are less overweight than American people. That’s not very hard. But there are probably a lot of factors involved besides eating, including a less sedentary lifestyle, shorter work hours and higher rates of smoking.

       11. Comes to anonymous forum to ask for advice. . . then gets angry and sarcastic when they don’t like the advice. Honestly, why just stop at breaking up with him. You should call Department of children and families, too!!!

       12. Why can’t you understand. It’s not that we “dumb” Americans can’t see the food is unhealthy. The point is that what your BF feeds his children is none of your f** ing business. You have no say. Not within your control. Do you have control issues?shesh.

   21. How often does he have the kids? If it’s infrequently or only on weekends, does he kind of treat it like special occasions? And you’ve been doing a lot of fun activities, which in my experIence tend to involve junk food (movies, amusement parks, road trips, fairs, etc). His kids might also not like his cooking and it’s not a battle he wants to fight in his limited time with them (if in fact limited). Also, for me there’s a subconscious class element to my feelings around junk food – have you explored that for yourself?

       I say this as a parent who swore up and down prekids they I would make my kids eat what we eat, no special meals or chicken nuggets, limited treats, blah blah blah. Now I am happy if my 3 yo eats Nutella because I think that has some protein in it. All this to say I think you have to keep quiet but I don’t think you should view it as such a failing of your BF. And you should definitely keep any thoughts about the children’s weight firmly in your head, do not even voice them aloud or in text to BF for fear the kids hear/read the comments or he repeats. For some kids, that’s a bell you can’t unring, at least not without a ton of therapy.

   22. I mean, his kids, his business. Why do you care? If theoretically you got married would you cook family dinners once in a while and give them the option of good food? I would not break up over this unless you just don’t want anyone with kids. No problem with that. There is always some issue with somebody else’s kids. This seems like a fairly harmless one unless you butt in and become the food police and kids start to hate you.

   23. If you’d met my kids at those ages you would have thought the same thing, because you wouldn’t have seen what they ate when you weren’t around them.
       With respect, it seems like you’ve checked out of the relationship, at least mentally, otherwise why would you be asking about how to avoid it next time (the simple answer is do not date a parent) so I think it might be better for you (and them) if you broke up now rather than let this fester and become a bigger issue and you end up breaking up later amyway…

   24. Butt out and break up. No one, and I mean no one, wants to deal with the sugar police.

       1. And definitely put in your dating app profile that your last relationship ended because of this.

          1. You two are unkind. Please go outside and get some fresh air and stop taking your bad mood out on others.

             1. Did you read OP’s comment accusing us all of callously destroying the lives of our children?

             2. Pretty sure you’re the OP, and I feel sorry for you.

             3. Not the OP, but if you are feeding your children that much sugar then you are setting your kids up for failure. And your responses are unnecessarily unkind. If you’re that sensitive to someone questioning sugar consumption, maybe you should spend some time examining why that bothers you so much…

             4. I’m not the OP, you are wrong, but I’m also not from the United States.

   25. I’m a parent of two little kids. Energy drinks and many different types of sugar at the same time os definitely not normal, and to me would raise concerns that he’d rather say yes to the kids than be the “bad guy” aka the parent to them. I don’t think it means the kids are doomed to a lifetime of chronic illness but I don’t think it’s something I’d be excited to be a part of. If you care about him, before you break up I think it’s worth saying hey I’ve noticed this and it surprises me because normally you’re into healthy eating so wondering what’s up? It’s true as the GF you aren’t the parent here – but this isn’t about how you engage with the kids, it’s about him, and I think that is absolutely fair game for discussion. If he’s able to have a mature conversation about it or maybe there is something going on you haven’t considered maybe you two can work out; if he won’t talk about it or answers in a way that doesn’t satisfy you, it’s your choice to say okay I’m out.

       1. “Energy drinks and many different types of sugar at the same time os definitely not normal, and to me would raise concerns that he’d rather say yes to the kids than be the “bad guy” aka the parent to them. I don’t think it means the kids are doomed to a lifetime of chronic illness but I don’t think it’s something I’d be excited to be a part of.”

          Exactly this, from a mom of similar age kids. The issue here isn’t the food. It’s that dad is acting like a fun aunt or grandma, not a parent.

   26. I never realized that Ellen was French.

       1. Haha yeah I’m mad I got taken by this tr oll.
          Or maybe she’s not a tr oll and she’s ~*French*~

5. Missed the pet peeve thread earlier, but would like to complain about people who let their dogs walk all over and pee on other people’s yards! I don’t care about the area between the sidewalk and street, but letting your dog amble halfway up my yard and do its business (even #1) is gross and it kills grass. Please stop!

   1. Do you complain when the deer pr other wildlife pee in your yard to?

      1. Yeah this is what I don’t get…most of the pee in your yard isn’t from dogs. It’s from squirrels, rabbits, deer, etc.

         1. I’m pretty sure the only pee that’s killing the grass is the dog pee? I’ve never had that problem with deer, squirrels, or rabbits even when my yard has been full of them.

            1. I’ve never had dog pee kill my yard… my dog uses our backyard regularly (we pick up poop) and the grass looks fine and indistinguishable from the front yard, which she doesn’t use.

            2. Your own dog isn’t peeing on the same spot obsessively to send messages to other dogs in your own backyard.

               In front yards, the issue is when every dog in the neighborhood is peeing in the same spot as a “message board” for the whole canine community.

            3. What kind of magic dog do you have? Mine destroys my lawn – we don’t let my landscaper in the back yard where the dog runs free because it’s just not worth it.

            4. She’s smaller than average, I guess? A chihuahua mix. But other than that nothing magic that I know of. She doesn’t spend much total time outdoors but does do her business back there several times a day.

      2. No deer here, but if someone were walking their deer and could fully control where they walked, yes, I would!

      3. TBH, wildlife is wildlife. Domesticated dogs are IMO different.

         But I have 99 problems and TBH I hope I get to the point where this is one of them.

      4. Yes! Those deer with leashes who can be taught not to walk up in people’s yards!

      5. Deer aren’t being walked on a leash

      6. Not the OP, but the wildlife in my yard are not on leashes controlled by humans. So, no, I don’t get mad at the wildlife.

   2. Sorry. That’s not gonna happen. You can put a sign in your yard that will encourage me to discourage a dog from picking your yard, but if the dog picks your yard, it is what it is. I think you need to relax. (I will pick up, though.)
      I will say that one night my dog was picking a yard where I don’t really know the neighbors and I was trying to pull him away and verbally saying “no no” to him and those neighbors shouted from behind me as they walked up with their dog that it was just fine. They will get an invite to my Fourth of July parties. You wouldn’t.

      1. I wouldn’t want you at my 4th of July party anyway.

      2. I’ve seriously thought of putting a sign saying “pee here” to counter all the cranks on this subject! I love dogs and dogs gonna dog. Just pick up the poop. If I wanted precious I’d live behind gates. You can come to my 4th of July party too :)

         1. Yes!! As long as you pick up your dogs poop IDGAF! And I don’t even like dogs

      3. I mean, I don’t let my dogs use people’s yards – I don’t even let them walk in the yards. We stay on the sidewalk and they use the bit between the road and the sidewalk because I am the human and I am the boss and that’s what we do. I have short enough leashes that it’s not hard to do and when I can see them thinking about it, I redirect them.

         1. You are my kind of dog owner. Some of the dog owners on here are enough to turn every one against dogs. Even me, and I have two.

         2. Thank you!! We recently moved into a home with a very small front yard and are now one of the curmudgeon homes that have a “please don’t use our space as a bathroom” sign because so many dog owners allow their dogs to dig up our mulch, owners leave their dogs’ waste, etc. I mean one guy didn’t even stop their dog from urinating right beside/on us while pulling weeds. I’m a big dog fan, but not a big a-hole dog owner fan.

   3. Idk, my old house had a fire hydrant in the front yard and I never noticed the grass around it looking any worse than the rest of the yard.

   4. Chiming in to support your comment and educate others. Pet waste is a water quality and health safety issue. It is recognized as a source of pollution in regional water quality restoration efforts, and because of this many local governments provide free bags and designated areas for this because of its impacts. Dog food has animal products that promote bacterial growth so their waste has more bacteria than wildlife. There’s a ton of free info online to explain it if you want to learn more.

   5. I’ll ask my baby to hold her wet diaper until she’s in a washroom next time as well. That’s about what you’re expecting from an animal once it is outside.

      You must be a delight of a neighbor.

   6. Yeah, we have huge yellow circles in the grass from dogs. I’ve never seen a fox or a deer lift his leg on those spots, but I do see dogs do so. People let their dogs go up to our porch, it’s not just the edges of our lawn.

   7. Beaches were closed in my area in part due to pollution from dog waste. It’s insane how selfish people can be.

      1. That’s poop waste, and is completely different. Dogs peeing on a beach does not close the beach. I don’t think anyone here is disagreeing that not picking up poop is selfish and rude.

   8. When we had dogs they were trained to use the patch of grass between the sidewalk and the street.
      I have a problem with roaming cats, too.

      1. This must be a regional thing because I never see this

         1. Never see roaming cats? Yeah, I have a friend who lives where domestic cats are prey animals so doesn’t see them either.

   9. At least it’s absorbed by the grass!

      My pet level is dogs peeing on pavement where it then bakes in the sun and smells. Or someone steps in the puddle.

   10. Wow this thread is wild. People really think they can let their property (the dog) damage someone else’s property? And other people should be ok with it?

       1. This!
          When we had dogs they were trained to use the grass between the sidewalk and the road for the exact reason that it’s wrong for my property to damage other people’s property.

6. Toxic workplace/PIP poster here. Big update – they moved me under someone new in my department with the same seniority as my old boss. My old boss no longer has a second-in-command/deputy. My team was shocked and unhappy with the decision (they didn’t know the full background), but I know it’s for the better.

   I have a new portfolio of work and no longer have to be in that environment under a boss that would literally bring up nitpicky, minor things in our PIP meetings to show I didn’t perform. I know it may just be CYA for the company, but it’s helping me feel better. I was assigned a high-stakes project (with support) that I’m excited about – I never got this kind of stuff under old boss. I’m still on a PIP but the end date has been extended through this project with the idea I can showcase improvements in the areas my old boss cited. My leadership really seems to want this to work out for me – maybe I’m dead wrong but it’s helping me regain some confidence. I have to believe that the documentation of my old boss’ behavior helped this to happen, too.

   I’ve also had some more activity bubble up on the new job front, too.

   Please send me all the good vibes that things are taking a turn for the better!

   1. That is all wonderful news! I’m really happy for you!

   2. Well done and good luck!

7. Does anyone have any games you’re loving on the Nintendo Switch? I got one over the weekend and have been playing Cozy Grove and Bear & Breakfast. I’m loving both! And I’m so impressed with the screen quality on the Switch.

   I played Stardew Valley and Spiritfarer on the PlayStation and loved both as well.

   1. Animal Crossing is basically the only game I play.

   2. I really like Luigi’s mansion 3

   3. I also played Animal Crossing when it came out but haven’t played in years now.

      My husband is obsessed with the new Zelda oN Switch and I am obsessed with watching him play it.

   4. Zelda tears of the kingdom.

8. I’m looking for everyday gold-fill jewelry to wear daily that won’t tarnish. What is the cheapest place I could find this? My goal is to never take it off but to spend as little as possible.

   1. Not gold-filled, but CaitlynMinimalist on Etsy has good reviews and is inexpensive.

   2. Spend the money on real gold if you’re talking about every day. Everything else will tarnish and you’ll spend as much in the end.

   3. I’ve had good luck with Quince. I bought a couple gold earrings to put in cartilage piercings and haven’t taken them out in about a year and a half– no tarnishing and no skin irritation.

   4. Late comment but I looked for this same thing and wanted to find locally made which led me to: Grayling Jewelry out of Portland. Got a couple pairs of earrings and none of them have tarnished. Going to get more now that they have flat back earrings too!

9. I’m paying for Hulu now… so what good shows do I need to see?

   Loved “The Bear”

   Watching now… jumping around….
   “The Great” – Extremely entertaining (thanks for rec on this board)
   “Reservation Dogs” – Really like it
   Younger – Surprisingly charming fluff

   1. PEN15, What We Do in the Shadows, Ramy, Normal People, The Dropout

   2. This Fool, Only Murders in the Building, Schitt’s Creek (if you haven’t seen it yet!), Abbott Elementary (I don’t watch it live but love it so much), Letterkenny (not for everyone but I find it hilarious), Shrill, and bc I live near Philly, I can’t forget Always Sunny in Philadelphia.

   3. Only Murders in the Building

      1. +++++

         1. It’s funny, but I don’t really think this is that great. I don’t understand the popularity.

10. WWYD?

    My company is calling all local employees back to the office M-T-W every week. This was announced with at least three months of lead time between the announcement and the actual RTO date. I am a manager and have an employee who has really been struggling to balance childcare while working. She has two young kids – currently a nanny stays with the baby from 8:30 – 1 pm, and her toddler is in daycare from morning-3 pm. But it sounds like this employee and her husband (who also WFH) are basically juggling their kids while working the rest of the time… I am just returning from a LOA but have heard negative comments from others about this situation, saying that this employee sometimes even has the baby on her lap during meetings.

    My unofficial policy for my team has basically been that as long as your work is done well (including participating in meetings without distraction) and you are reasonably available for meetings, I don’t care what’s going on behind the scenes or what specific hours you’re working. But now with our return to office, there are different expectations coming down from the executives and this employee is asking if she will still have the same flexibility once we go into the office. Specifically:

    1. Her baby has a daycare spot in January, so can she have permission to WFH all afternoons (even when we’re supposed to be in the office) for the next three months until the daycare program begins?
    2. Even after the daycare spot opens, it sounds like she’s still hoping to be able to leave early (like around 3 pm) to pick up her son on a regular basis, and then finish the day at home.

    Help me out, folks – what is a reasonable level of flexibility to provide here?

    If it matters, I have two young kids myself and want to do as much as I can to support working parents. Generally our company offers good work/life balance; I rarely work more than 38-40 hours a week. This particular employee’s work is hit or miss – sometimes good, but sometimes it takes a lot of coaching to get there. She wants to go into management but her soft skills and leadership still need a lot of work and she doesn’t have the greatest reputation among our leadership because of that.

    1. As for her need to leave at 3 for daycare pickup, could she shift her hours so she works 7-3 instead of 9-5? That’s been a common solution with working parents at virtually every place I’ve worked.

       The fact that she doesn’t have childcare during her work day is absolutely a problem though, and needs to be figured out.

       As a manager who tries to be very supportive of working parents (as I hope to be one one day!) and who recognizes that we aren’t saving lives in my current job, I want to be as flexible as possible as long as certain parameters are met. For me that means within moderation you can do your work whenever (7-3 or 10-6 or 9-3 + 8-10) and WFH when you need to (we’re technically jn 4 days a week but I’m flexible) but make sure your work is done and when you’re working you need childcare if your kids aren’t old enough to be self sufficient.

    2. I think that if everyone is required to return, then an exception shouldn’t be made for a person who is struggling to do the work well (no matter the reason, absent a disability). Allowing an exception for this person would honestly really irritate me if I were a great performer but didn’t get the same flexibility.

       I’m kind of ambivalent on the daycare situation, but it sounds like she had plenty of lead time.

       1. I’m not. She’s needed childcare this whole time and hasn’t done it.

          1. This. When I was approved to work at home years ago I literally had to give my job copies of my floorplan to prove I had a dedicated office space and when I had a kid I had to submit a copy of my daycare agreement to prove I had at least 40hrs of paid childcare. Working from home doesn’t mean you don’t need childcare!

    3. She can’t work with kids at home every day. No exceptions.

       1. Yea, It would be one thing if she was a total superstar or in a niche area but telling your boss you expect to work part time hours because you don’t want to pay for full time childcare is nuts. I’m sure she’ll claim that she’ll be ‘back on’ after pick up but with no childcare how does that work if she still has two pre-schoolers that need supervising? I thought we all learned during covid that you can’t truly do substantive work with little kids in your space!

    4. First, now that you’re back from your LOA I would observe closely if/how her work is being impacted and focus on concrete ways she needs to step up (if at all) to get the full picture. Sometimes workplace grumblings come from a very real place. Sometimes they stem from interpersonal issues or perceptions that aren’t accurate.

       I’m sympathetic to the first concern. Daycare slots are really tight right now and there’s probably not a lot she can do about it. It’s also temporary, and if your employer is cool with it *and* if you would be willing to extend that flexibility to other team members who are in a tough spot with life stuff, I would be, too.

       For the second item, I would first be clear with your team what the expectations are upon return to the office. RTO can go wrong in a lot of ways, and you want to be clear up front what the expectations are. If she wants to leave early, I think that has the potential for major resentment from other team members if they don’t also have the same flexibility (I’m assuming most of her team members that you manage are same/similar positions and seniority).

    5. None!

       1. Aaaand this is why so many working mothers leave the workforce

    6. She absolutely cannot / should not be working without childcare. However, if I was her supervisor I’d be fine with her (and anyone else who needs it) shifting her working hours to 7-3 or something to accommodate the daycare schedule.

    7. It seems like you have let her get away with not following your unofficial policy. If others are complaining about her having the baby during meetings, then she has not been “participating without distractions”. And if her overall work is hit or miss that does not equate to “work is done well”. It sounds like you need to actually start managing her. How will the rest of the team respond when a subpar employee is not held to the same rules as they are? It probably will not be motivating for them.

       1. +1. We have been back in the office 3x a week for a while, with some flexibility. One employee (male) has childcare issues and rarely comes into the office, or if he does, it’s for all of an hour or two. He somehow has managed to get away with it for now (at least that we know of), but it causes a lot of resentment among other employees, especially when we have a lot of other parents who are able to deal with childcare issues. Fine to make some accommodations, but don’t give her preferential treatment that others don’t have access to.

    8. I’m a mom of two kids 5 and under with a big job. DH is going up for partner this year in BigLaw, so I tend to take on the brunt of default parent duties, because I work 45-50 hours a week vs. his crazy 70 hour weeks.

       I have a direct report with 2 under 2. Her parents live with her and provide childcare. Her older son goes to a preschool program that ends at noon. I know for a fact – because she’s very open and honest with me – that she goes to pick him up at Noon many days, that she often nurses her baby between meetings – we’ve had 1/1s – rarely, but it’s happened – where a sick kid is on her lap. But her work? Always where it needs to be. She’s put together various pieces of childcare that enable her to get her work done.

       While her arrangement would not work for me (I need everyone OUT OF THE HOUSE), it’s working well for her. My thoughts are that your employee’s current arrangement may not be working for her as well as she thinks. There’s no way for you to say this – but I’d encourage you to watch and evaluate her performance before offering any additional flexibility.

    9. The issue isn’t where she is working, it’s whether she is working. I don’t think a long-term plan of working while also watching a small child is a great idea. Can she flex her hours to start earlier? Or if your work is truly project based, can you monitor whether it is getting done and done well? If not, at some point she probably should go down to 75% or whatever she can actually do until she can get longer hours of care sorted out.

    10. I agree with letting her flex her hours to 7-3 if possible.

        I work in a similar environment where the focus is on getting stuff done, not when and where you work. I’m not a superstar but get my stuff done. I generally try to sign off by 3:15 so I can pick up my elementary age kids and be with them every afternoon. It’s really great for our family and if I were told to return to the office three days per week and not allowed to leave by 3, I’d probably quit. BUT elementary age kids are very different than a baby and a toddler. I can easily work if needed (my kids normally play well alone or together, and I could use screentime in a pinch) and my kids are never in the room when I have meetings.

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