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Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
I've been ogling this fun cotton canvas dress from indie brand Thomas Sires for a while now, and I thought I'd post it today. I love the black/white print, which kind of looks zebra-like from one angle and chevron-like from another angle. The darts in front look flattering, but what I really like — which definitely makes it a bit controversial for work — is the exposed notches in the back, which expose a bit more of your back and shoulders than normal dresses do. I've been pondering — is it unprofessional? Am I being a prude in hesitating? I'd love to hear what you guys think. Ultimately I think that it will be fine in the office, particularly when paired with a blazer or cardigan for most big meetings. The dress was $375 but is now marked to $250 at Of a Kind. Thomas Sires Manta Ray Dress
Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Diana Barry
I feel like this would show straps, and you couldn’t wear a racerback because it would show in the front. No?
I have an awful headache today – shows up whenever I am tired. :(
L
Coffee nap. Drink a cup of coffee, close and lock your door and set an alarm for 15 minutes. You’ll wake up alert.
Diana Barry
Thanks! I have tried that before and I just cannot nap at work (unless pregnant) – I take an hour to fall asleep even if I am really tired. Boo!
anonsg
Oh naps… I don’t think I can do that since I have a window at my door and you can see into my office hahaha.
Anon
I agree with the bra assessment. I think you’d need to wear a strapless bra. Boo.
Niktaw
The “notches” are demure enough for a biz-cas office wear, but will only look good on a fat-free physique.
A big plus for this dress is the covered zipper (many exclamation marks).
Wordy
Since this designer only goes up to a size 8, evidently, that won’t be a problem.
I love the print.
Parfait
I love the print too, but do not feel the need to emphasize my back fat.
Senior Attorney
This dress is perfectly designed to showcase the very flabbiest part of my body. Well done, Thomas Sires!
Mamey
Size 4, and I would still look flabby. I think you also have to be toned and have great posture… which hardly comes naturally to those of us sitting at a computer all day.
Cat
Not being a prude – the cut of the back is designed to draw your attention to the exposed skin, so even though it’s not exactly “revealing,” I’d feel weird emphasizing my back like that at work. I’d say it would be great for an after work event, but I think I’d have to wear a strapless bra – boo.
MJ
That’s how I felt too!
AIMS
I am usually more of a prude about these things but I would totally wear this dress to work. I’d probably just keep a sweater/blazer on for most of the day, which with air conditioning isn’t really an issue anyway. I actually love dresses with interesting details like that because they’re great for after work if I want to go out to dinner and look less buttoned up.
Bonnie
I’d wear this to work too especially since I’m usually wearing a cardigan or jacket.
Scandinavia
I’m looking for big picture recommendations for an upcoming visit to Scandinavia. I am looking to go in the spring, and I want to go to a few different cities. Right now I am looking for general advice on what cities/towns are “must sees”, how easy/hard it is to get between cities, and how many cities is too many cities (and what time of Spring is best to go?!) I think the trip will be between 2-3 weeks and I would like to see Oslo, Copenhagen, and Stockholm at a minimum, maybe some other places in between? I want a balance between seeing a lot (everything!) and not rushing through a city too fast to feel like I missed it. Thanks!!
Anna
I enjoyed taking the ferry between Copenhagen and Oslo- it’s overnight, and cabins are cheaper than most Scandinavian hotel rooms! Arriving in Oslo by water gave a great perspective on the city. If you get horribly seasick, this might not be a great idea, but I don’t think it’s usually TOO rough, at least not during the time you’d be awake.
Anonymous
I would definitely add in Helsinki. Second the recommendation for ferries. There’s a series called “Baltic Coasts” that I would track down. It’s basically an arial tour of the entire region and is great background material.
Anastasia
I loved Bergen, Norway too. I took a train/ferry trip from Oslo to Bergen (or the other way around, I can’t remember which) and it was just spectacular.
Katie
+1 for Bergen and taking the train from Oslo to Bergen.
Bergen Train
+1 on Bergen. The train from Oslo to Bergen is so beautiful. Spend the extra 90 Kroner (14 USD) to sit in the fancy train car and you get bigger seats and access to all you can drink cafe lattes and tea. Bergen itself is really lovely, especially if you enjoy hiking.
espresso bean
I did this last May and LOVED it. It’s such a perfect time to go because it stays light outside until after 10 PM!
With 2-3 weeks, you should definitely consider those overnight cruise ships others have mentioned. They’re pretty affordable, and they include dinner and breakfast smorgasbords/buffets that are delicious! When you factor in that you get dinner, entertainment (cheesy entertainment, but still), and lodging, it ends up being way cheaper than a hotel on land.
I highly recommend adding a visit to Helsinki (you only need 1-2 days to see the main sights) and Tallinn, Estonia, which is only a two-hour ferry ride from Helsinki (I much preferred Tallinn to Helsinki, for what it’s worth). Stay in Tallinn a night or two if you can. It’s adorable with a true medieval center. The Estonian History Museum there blew me away. It’s well done.
Four days each in Copenhagen and Stockholm is probably a good amount of time, but stay longer if you have the time! There’s so much to see.
Even mid-range hotels in Scandinavia have stunning breakfast spreads with many kinds of yogurts, toppings, fresh fish, nuts, dried fruit, cheeses, etc. If you’re on a budget, you can fill up with a big breakfast to start your day of sightseeing.
In Stockholm, you have to see Skansen (an outdoor park with Swedish historical homes, animals, demonstrations). I also loved the photography museum, which is on the water.
In Copenhagen, don’t miss Tivoli Gardens, a charming outdoor amusement park with lush flowers, concerts, rides, and food.
Happy to answer more specific questions if you have them! There’s so much to see and do. You’re going to love it.
Anon
OMG, yes, the breakfast buffets. I went full-on Gollum every morning and ate ALL.THE.FISHES!!!!
espresso bean
ME TOO! Ha. The first week after I got home, everything I made for breakfast seemed so disappointing!
Parfait
God I want to go on this trip.
oil in houston
we did a Scandinavia tour in 2009, we went in July and got so cold at times! bring a fleece!!!
Copenhagen was cool but oh so expensive, Bergen is worth seeing and we got there by ferry which was an amazing ride from Flam/Balestrand (we took a train and a ferry to get there, amazing sceneries), Stockholm is nice, not sure I’d go back to Oslo.
be prepared though, everything is incredibly expensive, this is the only trip I ever took where all I drank was water, I couldn’t afford wine!, and ate sandwiches most lunches
Amy H.
I’ve never been — but I now desperately want to go because I was so inspired by a blogger’s trip photos (admittedly a trip sponsored by Volvo — I ended up not caring one whit). This was Sweden only — they visited Stockholm and Gothenburg and then the more rural west coast. I think you’d enjoy her trip accounts — here’s one: http://www.designmom.com/2014/08/visit-sweden-west-coast-itinerary/
Also, my parents have done the Norwegian state ferry (the Hurtigruten) and LOVED it.
Brunette Elle Woods
I just went to Stockholm in mid-August. It should not be missed on a Scandinavian trip! The city is beautiful and lots of walking! Be prepared for how cold it is there. I was often in a long sleeve shirt, jacket and light poncho thrown over out of desperation!
Medic Maggie
I think the little shoulder cut-outs are unique, but I’m not sure I like them all that much. I think it would take the right kind of bra to make it work, or as folks were mentioning yesterday, maybe you get strap-keepers sewn into the dress, but closer to the back, near the cutout. Conversely, there are plenty of bras out there whose straps dive more inward, than straight down. I have trouble finding them, and I need them, because I have narrow, sloping shoulders and a narrow band. I always feel like regular bras are too wide-set for me, no matter how tiny the band is…
But the print is lovely. It does remind me a lot of the Jacquard print welt-pocket sheath dress from LE
landsend DOT com/products/womens-jacquard-welt-pocket-sheath-dress/id_272959 (and much more affordable!!) On that note, when I looked at the LE catalog last week or whenever, I decided that I need ALL.THE.THINGS on those lovely glossy pages.
And, I’m a big believer in the power-nap. I hope it gets better for you, Diana.
MJ
I don’t actually think this is risqué–it’s not showing anything you might not show wearing something a bit strappier.
However, it strikes the wrong note for work for me. It’s cool in that it’s a neat cut, but there’s something about “hey, I want to show extra skin at work” which makes this a bit offputting as a work dress.
This would be a good work-to-dinner dress though–with a cardi on at work, as Kat said.
Migraines!
How do you handle migraines at work? I work in an open-plan office (big space filled with about 20 people) with florescent overhead lighting. My job consists of staring at two computer monitors (with glare protection on the screen) almost all day. Working from home is not an option. A private or semi-private office is not an option.
Any tips to keep me from banging my head against the wall?
Miss Behaved
No idea, but I’ll be watching this, too. I do get to work from home 2 days a week, but I’ve had migraines everyday for over a week.
One thing I know I can’t do in this situation is diet. I have to eat. And I need to get fresh air. I climb into bed when I get home…
Medic Maggie
Advil, caffeine, changing the brightness of your computer monitors (sometimes changing from a cool blue tone to a warmer tone can help too). Eat something, drink water. Take something anti-nausea if you can. Noise-cancelling earbuds with quiet/soft/ambient sound. Take a nap.
Migraines!
Ooh, I just started listening to ambient sound on my noise-cancelling headphones. Good idea! I also read somewhere that the ketogenic diet (like Atkins, very low carb) helps migraines, but I’m skeptical. Something to discuss with my doctor. I’m just so, so sick of feeling like a medicated zombie all the time.
Medic Maggie
As a minor aside, I did notice that I felt less sluggish, less body aches, less a lot of things, when I followed a paleo-type diet. I only did it for lent a few years ago, as a challenge to myself to see if I could do it. I did enjoy the way it made me feel (I made lots of gains in athleticism too), but it was not sustainable for me in the long run.
Hollis Doyle
FWIW, one of my friends recently has gone Paleo in an attempt to resolve stomach issues and only had one migraine last week, which was a big reduction for her. It’s probably too soon to tell if the two are related, but I just thought I would mention it.
FormerPhotog
Also, check your vitamin D and thyroid levels if you’re getting daily migraines – I got those straightened out, and mine are better – so much so that I know when things have gone off with my meds. I was actually able to wean off my Topamax completely!
I had maintenance come in and pull some of the bulbs from right above my desk, and I made a shade from my cabinets, so that helps almost more than glare protection.
Anonymous
I go home, turn out the lights, keep a vomit bucket next to me and hope I don’t die. I’ve never had a headache I would call a migraine that I am at all capable of working through.
layered bob
seconded. I have no idea how to work through a migraine. If I can get myself home without getting hit by a car or collapsing (these have both happened) I am proud of my extreme fortitude. Nearly had to take a semester off in college because of a string of migraines – fortunately they’re under better control now.
Unicorn
+1. I go home, take my scripts, and pass out for 12 hours.
k-padi
+1. Actually, I sometimes hope I do die. I would have zero hope of working through a migraine. I’d probably end up under my desk in a fetal position overnight if one hit while at work.
Blonde Lawyer
I wear sunglasses at work when I am fighting off a migraine. I look ridiculous but I’m able to keep working that way. Tan colored sunglasses work best to allow you to still see indoors. If you could take periodic breaks, I’d recommend sitting in a dark, quiet conference room or even laying on the floor of it, for 10 minutes at a time every hour or so. I kind of feel like a migraine is a mountain. I can feel myself climbing the mountain. Certain things get me closer to the top (noise, stress, lights, smells) other things bring me a few steps down (quiet, dark). If you can periodically work back down the mountain you might keep yourself from hitting full blown migraine territory.
I also try to print out more of my work. Usually, I’m all electronic but if I’m fighting a migraine I work off of paper.
ETA: the sunglasses have the added bonus of the people around me respecting my headache and speaking to me in quiet tones.
kc
My migraines were getting more frequent so I went to the neurologist (go! migraines are a neurological disease). If they are so bad that they are interrupting work, you should seek out an every-day preventative. If you are on one and you are still getting them frequently, seek out a second opinion. If you have chronic migraine, botox is a real and effective option (but you need it from a neuro, not a derm). Also–I have learned not to fight through the migraine. I leave work, my boss understands. There’s no point in me staying and getting like no work done. If I had to stay…I would drink a cup of tea and take an anti-nausea pill and your choice of pain medicine. My triptans make me too tired to work through. We used to have a room at work to lay down in so that was a solution until the fatigue passed, but that’s gone now.
Migraines!
Yes! I have a neuro appointment tomorrow. I’m hoping to qualify for Botox as I’ve hit the 15-a-month mark and have tried the whole gamut of preventives (Topamax, never again…). Triptans somtimes work (I’m out cold for a good twenty minutes the second my head hits the desk), but on Day 6 of this, I’m leary of taking too many… I just wish my office was more accomodating, especially with finding me a place with better lighting options. Plenty of people have single/double offices, I’m just not at that level of seniority yet, unfortunately.
kc
Yeh I went because I was definitely getting rebound headaches from taking triptans too often (I had about 3 migraines a week, consistently). I was also very frustrated by not being able to live a normal life. Do you exercise? Once you get your migraines under control, the exercise helps a lot for me. I’m on propanolol which made me SO drowsy for the first 2 weeks but then it worked! I now have about 4 a month. Sometimes you have to kick triptans all together and suffer through them for a few weeks to get out of the rebound headache cycle. You have my sympathies, migraines totally suck.
Blonde Lawyer
There was a post at the end of the day yesterday re: birth control and someone posted about going on a certain one to stop migraines and someone went off a certain one to stop migraines. Just something to consider.
E
My dad gets chronic migraines.. lately it seems like he has one every day of his life. He sees a neuro and tried absolutely everything. He probably has a migraine right now. It runs in our family and skipped me mostly. Unfortunately, I think the only answer for him is retirement. I guess all I can recommend after seeing him suffer through all of this is trying everything. He tried botox (had to keep a headache diary before insurance would cover it), preventative meds. I suggest accupuncture and massage, essential oils (he doesn’t believe in that stuff). He’s eliminated headache triggering foods (chocolate, MSG). A company called “Cefaly” just developed a “headache tiara” which I think I might get him for Christmas (money’s kind of tight and while he can get a script from his neuro, I doubt the $300 price tag will be covered by insurance any time soon.) He’s gone to the ER for them and basically had a saline solution hooked up to him for an hour or so and that did the trick but that’s not practical. Based on that however, if you don’t already drink lots and lots of water! I’m talking a gallon a day. Yeah going to the bathroom 1-2x an hour isn’t ideal at work but it’s better than a migraine.
What I don’t recommend: taking otc meds too often. he gets rebound headaches from taking otc meds in conjunction with caffeine (or without) so it’s become a vicious cycle. Honestly, if his migraines don’t subside post retirement, I’m going to push really hard for him to try medicinal marijuana.
Sunshine
Chronic migraine can be so debilitating. He should ask a neuro about having electrodes implanted in his brain – no joke. The procedure places electrodes in certain locations along with a pacemaker-like device that controls the electrodes. I know there are docs in Philadelphia who do this procedure; not sure where else it may be available.
nutella
In addition to all the suggestions (find what works for you – fresh air, laying down, ice pack on the head, caffeine, etc.), for me it was just as important to identify triggers. You may not be able to move into an office but perhaps someone has a perfume triggering it (happened to me) and you can be moved to not sit so close to it. I also know I will get them with stress, not sleeping enough, or not enough water. Sometimes I can’t do much about the sleep and stress, but I can definitely make a point to drink more water. So sorry though!!
Anonymous
2nd this. I found avoiding sugar helped cut down tremendously on my migraines.
Anonymous
I take Topamax as my daily preventative so don’t get them as much anymore, but when I do I’m able to work through it and have had great results with Amerge (naratriptan) + 2 Aleve (220mg, or 1 500mg prescription dose). For those who haven’t tried Amerge, I recommend at least giving it a shot–I tried Imitrex, Relpax, Maxalt, and Zomig (and maybe a few others I can’t remember) and they all knocked me out too much. I know everyone reacts to the triptans differently, but for me I think it was that Amerge is lower dose that made it work. The doctor said I can always double up to take 5mg if 2.5 doesn’t work, but it almost always does.
Bonnie
A USB humidifier and caffeine. The humidifier has been a godsend. Even though you have an open office, you can still direct the moisture towards you.
Senior Attorney
On the subject of prophylaxis, I tried Topamax and propranalol, and what works best for me is a combination of a very low dose of each — 25 mg Topamax (and at that low dose I don’t get the brain-scrambly side effects), 40 mg propranalol. Works much better than higher doses of either alone — I’ve gone from 2-3 migraines per week to maybe 2-3 per year. Keep trying until you find something that works for you!
anne-on
Coffee, Excedrin migraine, Dramamine (or an anti nausea drug) and lots of water. Walk outside as much as you’re able and sleep as much as you possibly can.
Leah
This is completely random, but I had a reduction in headaches when I started using magneisum “oil” which is really a saturated magnesium solution that you put on your skin or in the bath – as opposed to taking magneisum tablets or absorbing it from food. I started using the oil because of symptoms related to Crohn’s disease and the reduction in headaches was a surprise side effect.
Anon For This
Does anyone get sad when powerful women get pregnant/have children? As someone who is child free by choice it seems that even CEOs feel the social pressures (and fall victim to them) and it just makes me sad.
pickle
What makes you think that the powerful women are falling victim to social pressures? Perhaps they have always wanted children but were climbing the ladder first.
POSITA
Or maybe they want kids?
HSAL
Or maybe they want a baby, and their happiness outweighs your sadness.
Anonymous
I’m pretty sure she never said that their happiness outweighed her sadness, it was just a comment that she is sad for what she percieves is societal pressure. Honestly, sometimes I can’t even with the responses here, what a passive agressive response.
January
I don’t know, I think the original post was needlessly inflammatory in its assumpion that high-powered women who have children are only doing so because of societal pressure, and not because of any desire to have a baby (and all that that entails).
I do understand the feeling of sadness/loneliness in discovering that those whom you assumed to be like-minded or role models are less like you than you thought, though,
tesyaa
How do we decide if a powerful woman is making a choice to have a child, or if societal pressures are pushing her to do it? We’d have to ask her. I guess even if she says it’s her personal choice, one could still argue that she’s been influenced by society. While I am sometimes guilty of it, playing amateur psychologist about why people choose to have a child or do anything else is not productive.
Toffee
Bwahahaha you assume the only reason they have kids is societal pressure. You know, kids can be very fulfilling. It’s not just about continuing the human race.
Toffee
Also, I suggest that ANY woman who is truly successful would never ever succumb to pressure from anyone. Clearly, they’re pretty strong and accustomed to following their own ambitions.
Anonymous
This.
Ellen
Yay! Kat, I love this dress, but like the other OP’s above, I think I would need to have a strappless bra and then Frank would be wondering what is holdeing up my boobies and I would have to expleain! FOOEY!
As for this OP, I do not get sad when powerful women get pregeanant, most recentley, Marissa Meyer of Yahoo.com. She had a child and came back to work, and that is what my Dad want’s me to do. Myrna say’s I am alot like Marissa Meyer, tho she sureley has alot more $ in her checkeing account then I do. And even Dad say’s I am as pretty as her, but I do NOT think so b/c she is a CEO and I am onley a Partner at a NYC law firm. There are alot more women partner’s at NYC law firm’s then there are women CEO’s at pubic companie’s in the US.
I read in the NY Times that there is a VERY powerful woman at the new ALIBABA company, so mabye it is different for women in China. If so, YAY! b/c we have alot of thing’s to overcome and it would be nice to know that women there have equal right’s to men.
Noah said he want’s to meet my Dad. Dad want’s to meet Noah. This could be the start of a releationship I hope, but I do NOT want Dad to scare him off b/c this is the first real MD I am interested in. I have had med STUDENT’s wanting to date me (meaning realy just have sex) but NOT real MD’s. If there are any women in the HIVE married to MD’s, what should I do to help him to want to MARRY me?
Sundae Funday
It actually makes me happy because I assume having children is something they wanted and they have proven that with what I’m sure is an immense amount of hard work and some sacrifices you can “have it all” (whatever that means to you). I am always very impressed by them.
Monday
OK, the above commenters are right: I think it’s best to assume that when a woman has kids, it’s because she wanted to. I think this post was phrased in a kind of inflammatory way–assuming that nothing but “pressure” would make a powerful woman choose to become a mother.
That said, I think I can relate to some element of the feeling you’re talking about. I, too, have no kids and no plans to have any. For me, it’s not disappointment in the fact that a woman has children, it’s that so much public attention then suddenly goes to her role as a mom as opposed to whatever she’s doing professionally. I get very tired of reading profiles of well-known women that all focus on how they raise their kids; it’s just not what interests me the most about their lives. I understand that for many (most?) readers, parenthood is the most accessible thing about this person, but I wish it wouldn’t take center stage.
Sydney Bristow
I completely agree with your second paragraph.
(former) preg 3L
I obviously have a child but I agree with your feeling that it’s disappointing that the role of Mom seems to get so much more media attention than the role of CEO.
Spirograph
Me too.
Anita
Monday, totally agree with you. Thanks for this thoughtful view. I have a child, but when I read about successful businesswomen, women in politics, etc. I am frustrated that their family choices and life are often the focus of the coverage, whereas with men, this is rarely the case.
Dulcinea
I don’t know if “disappointing” is quite the right word, but when a powerful/high profile woman who I admire has children, it makes it a bit harder for me to identify with her (I expect to be child free by choice all my life) . . .especially when the press will now focus much more on that aspect of her life than her career. and to me, looking up to someone is related to being able to identify with them.
Spirograph
The insinuation here seems to be that having children and being a “powerful woman” are mutually exclusive. What about motherhood makes one weak?
cbackson
I think it’s less that and more like the OP would like to feel less alone in the choices that she’s made. In the same way that women that are working to be successful both as parents and in their careers take comfort/validation from seeing other powerful women make that work, women that are childfree (who are not the most visible/socially acceptable segment of society) take some comfort from seeing other powerful women who’ve made the same choice.
Sydney Bristow
I’m also child-free by choice. I tend to just assume that I’m in the minority and that most people want kids so it never crossed my mind that they are caving to societal pressure.
JJ
It makes me sad when people (women) assume that other women are not smart enough to make informed choices and the only reason such women would have made a choice was because of “societal pressures.” This is true for many, many choices and not just limited to propagating the human race.
Niktaw
Well said.
Anon BigLaw
Ladiez: even if you are a CEO, you are not immune from a Handmaid’s Tale sort of life
This in a week where the NYT magazine had a photo essay that included three sisters who are at West Point at the same time (so: 3 children who are in the same 4-year span — not only do I salute them, I salute their mama).
Baconpancakes
I’m personally planning on having kids, but I do understand what you mean. I think maybe you phrased the question in a way that gets under the hackles of women who do have and want children without thinking, but I feel the same way every time one of my female friends gets married and changes her name.
It feels like a betrayal. I had assumed we held the same values, and when they show that they don’t feel the same way by giving up the family name they carried all their lives in favor of being legally marked as their husband’s property, I feel like I’ve lost another ally when it comes for me to steadfastedly not change my name. Of course, there’s personal reasons to change your name or have a baby, and I understand my situation is different from a lot of people’s, and people should have the choice to make whatever life decisions they want without judgement. I know this, and I can’t judge them, and I accept their choices as right for them if not for me, but there’s that initial pang of loss.
Anonymous
Oh nonsense ! Marked as his property ? Srsly? Tell me more about how people get to make their own decisions without facing judgment.
pls
Yeah, seriously. I changed my name and am no way in favor of being legally marked as my husband’s property. Legally? That’s not even true. Nor is it true socially. I changed my name 9 years ago and have not missed my maiden name in the least, despite having a great relationship with my parents. I am a family unit with my husband now, but I am in no way his property, and I do not appreciate your statement.
AIMS
I am all for women being able to change their names if they so choose, but I am curious if your husband seriously or at all ever considered changing his name to be one family unit with you? I know lots of progressive men, none of whom actually did change their names, and of the ones who actually did consider it, it was only to a new hybrid name, not a wife name. Curious how it’s still the ladies who are changing their name for the sake of family unity.
Blonde Lawyer
My husband accidentally introduced himself as my wife when he met my colleague. We have been joking about how progressive he is since.
rosie
Mine, too, Blonde Lawyer. I’ve since forgotten the context, but my husband’s done that by accident.
And I don’t think it’s fair to assume that someone who changes her last name has different values than me.
Monday
You know, I think it was brave of you to post this. I honestly feel the same, including all of the qualifiers you list about not judging, respect for others’ personal decisions, and so on. I’ll extend it to family: I am the only woman on either side of my family, but one, who has kept her name. I don’t feel comfortable talking about it around women who took their husband’s names because I’m concerned they will feel I’m putting down their decision. So it’s kind of…lonely?
Anon
Well, are you putting down their decision? Because if you are silently judging them, then that will come through. If you aren’t, and you are in the camp of “do what works for you!” then talk about it!
Signed, a name-changer who doesn’t give a hoot what anyone else chooses to do. And who makes sure to properly address all cards using the names the recipients chose to use :)
Monday
Yeah, I’ve thought about that a lot. But I really do feel kind of tongue-tied. Here’s an analogy: I’m vegetarian. I have no opinion whatsoever on people who choose to eat meat. And yet whenever people ask me why I don’t, I struggle to say anything that won’t make meat-eaters feel that I judge them. So for me, “do what works for you!” has also tended to include not really discussing it, to avoid subtly offending others. I’m not saying it’s ideal, but it’s where I am as of now.
Anon
I’m saying this with kindness, but I think that you’re putting too much weight into how much you think that your opinion will matter to them and whether or not you should go out of their way not to make them feel bad.
I eat meat, and I know that there are people who judge me, but I’m okay with that. If I was a vegan, there would be vegans who would judge me for doing-it-wrong, and meat eaters who would judge me for being a vegan in the first place. If someone isn’t comfortable with their decision and comfortable sticking up for themselves, that is 100% not your problem.
so anon
You could do that re vegetarianism.
You could also do that re religion.
If you want to be polite, be polite. If you want to be brutally candid, I would recommend that only if you don’t care to continue these relationships or are among only fellow-travellers.
Elizabeth Taylor
You mean I’m some sort of trailblazer with the whole keeping your name thing?!
Baconpancakes
You’re an inspiration, Liz.
Mary Pickford
As if.
pls
This just proves the point. What matters is not whether the woman changes her name, but whether she knows that she is worthwhile regardless of a guy. Look at the relationship, and whether there is equality, rather than just dismissing every single woman who has ever changed her name for any reason.
Baconpancakes
I don’t talk about it in real life, because some women hate their fathers, want to be closer to their husbands’ families, dislike their maiden names, value family cohesion above all, or just don’t care, but I do worry that it’s not even a consideration as to keep their names. If they have a good reason to change their name, by all means, but I’d like us, as a society, to consider WHY we do it, and what it indicates when it’s assumed women will shed their names upon marriage. Where does this tradition come from? What does it indicate? What’s the historical context, and the implied context? What are you saying to other people? What are you saying to your hypothetical children? To your families? Make whatever choice you want, but actually MAKE it, don’t just do it because it’s expected.
I actually feel the same way about children. If you WANT kids (and I do), obviously have them. But don’t just have them because it’s expected. I’m all about making conscious, deliberate decisions.
Jersey Strong
Getting a perm in the 80s was something I did b/c it was expected.
Having a child, an event with a very long (and expensive!) tail, is on another planet from something one does b/c it is expected.
I’m going to file my nails into sharp points now.
Leone
I agree with you, Baconpancakes. But I do judge women who change their names. I’m not a choice feminist; I think there are better and worse decisions people can make in their lives and I think changing your name is a worse decision than keeping it. I’m annoyed and especially disappointed when it’s a close friend.
Baconpancakes
I had originally thought everyone made conscious decisions as to whether they were going to try to have kids, until a few friends were talking about it, and someone said, “I dunno, I guess if I got pregnant after I got married I’d keep it. I don’t really want kids, but sometimes it just happens,” and another said, “It’s just what you do. You get married and then have kids. I don’t really want them, but it’s just… it’s what you do, you know?” My jaw dropped at that point.
roses
I would give modern, educated women a little more credit in their name-changing decision. I changed my name, but I agonized over it because of all of reasons you mentioned. I’m a feminist, I care about patriarchy and oppression, and I agonized over changing my name because I felt I would experience judgment from people who assumed I was just giving in to societal expectations. But you know what? I hated my old last name – it was long and difficult to spell and annoying. My new one is much easier.
Start a conversation with your engaged and married friends about it that comes from a place of genuine curiosity instead of judgment – I bet they’ll surprise you by the reason behind their decisions.
Anon
Baconpancakes +1000, I’ve seen exactly what you describe in the very progressive part of the country I live in – so many people just going with the program and not thinking about why. I agree with you – fine to do the norm, but think about it before you do it.
Diana Barry
Agreed with Roses 100%. I changed my name – added DH’s – and he changed his middle name to mine so we both have the same 2 middle/last names. I agonized over it for months. It was really important to him (and also to me, but less so) for family unity, because his parents got divorced and he really wanted that external signifier. We had a lot of conversations about it while we were engaged.
Baconpancakes
I had that conversation once, with a friend who makes 2x her husband, but who changed her name and signed their wedding thank you notes Mr. and Mrs. HisFirst HisLast. I asked if she’d considered keeping her name, and she said, “No, of course not! Why would I do that? Husband would be so hurt!” And that was the last time I questioned anyone in that vein.
Anon
Baconpancakes – what does the fact that your friend makes 2x her husband’s salary has to do with anything?
Baconpancakes
It indicates that she’s a capable woman, and implies she’s educated. Statistically speaking, women who are more educated are more liberal and progressive, and women with more purchasing power in a relationship are normally less traditional. Using a husband’s first name in addition to the last is extremely traditional, and unexpected, particularly since more women in positions of power keep their names in order to keep their reputation and personal brand from diluting. Mentioning her income serves to contrast the traditional practice of using a man’s first name instead of her own.
Wildkitten
It has to do with the fact that she does buck some gender norms.
Anon
Well, I guess you can call me an outlier. I make 4x what my SO does and will take his name (and drop my birth surname entirely) when we marry. My choice. I prefer John and Jane Doe to Mr. and Mrs. John Doe, so that’s how I’ll sign cards. I consider myself to be liberal and progressive.
Jersey Strong
Now that’s an idea — don’t take the husband’s last name, take his first name
:)
anon
I don’t even understand how people still get upset about/agonize over the name thing. It’s your name-do what you want, keep it or don’t. If it’s not your name, butt out!
Blonde Lawyer
Another accidentally progressive story. I recently signed an RSVP to a wedding “Mr. and Mrs. Blonde Lawyer.” My husband thought it was funny.
Away Game
Sigh. Really? The presumption here is that no one who changes their name thinks about it? or that we need to have ‘a good reason’ to do it? I changed my name. Why I changed it and whether my spouse considered changing spouse’s name or whether we looked into joint names or or or…is no one else’s beeswax. It’s a tough decision for some and a really easy decision for others. What I don’t understand is why so many others care so much. I guess I’m lucky in that no one in my groups of friends, family, or colleagues, seems to have cared a hill o’ beans which way I wanted to go on the name thing, and just asked what I wanted (and yes, we do have all kinds of the kinds around us in generations before, within, and after our age cohort).
Wannabe Runner
For saying you don’t want to judge people, Baconpancakes, there’s a lot of judgment in this thread from you.
Just because a couple of your friends had kids because it was the next thing they were expected to do, that doesn’t mean that all women feel that way.
CB
I get what you’re saying. I of course feel like everyone should make the decision that works best for them. But I feel personally really passionate about women keeping their names (for similar reasons as you mention) and it feels like a little bit of a failure in my personal mission/crusade when good friends take their husband’s names, regardless of what goes into that decision for them. I don’t think I judge them, I’m just sad I lost another soldier in my own little fight for what I think is right!
Anonymous
I agree with some of this. It makes me a little sad when women don’t keep their name, or when they prioritize their husbands’ careers over theirs and things like that. I don’t feel this way about kids though, because we need more women who can be successful and mothers, role models and all that, especially to demonstrate to young girls/women that it isn’t either or and they should be ambitious. Also, I’m child free by choice, so I don’t want to do it.
Sydney Bristow
It doesn’t generally bother me when women change their name, but I plan on keeping mine. It has pained me when my younger sisters talk about changing their name as if there isn’t another option. I honestly don’t think keeping her name was a thought that even crossed my engaged younger sister’s mind and that made me sad. I mentioned to her that it was an option she could consider. I think she is still going to change it, but at least now she has considered it somewhat and I’ll respect her decision.
anon
My younger sister never considered changing hers and I never considered keeping mine. It’s just who we are and we don’t let it bother us that the other one chose differently. It’s what works for us. (FWIW, my mom also kept her name).
Alanna of Trebond
I think I feel this way too (re: name change).
Anonymous
No. Never. I’m happy for them. Since they’re pretty smart ladies I assume they know how birth control works and if they’re having kids it’s because they want them.
I mean, you’d find it hideously offensive if I said it was sad when CEOs didn’t have kids because I assumed they were infertile right?
L
Honestly, it doesn’t matter so much to me. I give it an eyeroll more than anything because then we’re subject to the “can they have it all” or CEO mommy conversation for the billionth time. Quite frankly I wish one of them would politely (but not politely) tell the media that their reproductive decisions are no one’s business.
Lyssa
Interesting interpretation. I was actually thinking about sort of the opposite of this this morning – I started out wondering how my work/motherhood path would have played out if I had been born in an earlier generation, before childbearing was something so carefully planned. I got to thinking that Sandra Day O’Conner and Ruth Bader Ginsburg both have children and awesome careers, so perhaps I could have done something similar. Then I got to thinking about the fact that neither Elena Kagan nor Sonia Sotomayer have children, and wondering if that was completely their choice or whether that means that creating that balance actually got harder for their generation. (And whether that’s changed for my own generation or not.) It made me a little sad for them, unless they truly did not want kids.
cbackson
I guess for every RBG or Sandra Day O’Conner, though, there are the women of their generation who wanted careers but spent their lives as stay at home mothers because they weren’t able to overcome the societal barriers that RBG and SDO did. One of my grandmothers very clearly fell into that camp – her job essentially fired her when she had her first child (even though my grandfather was supportive of her continuing to work). My mother was unceremoniously offered only three options when selecting her college major, and none of them was “business”, which is what she wanted.
Some women of their generation overcame that stuff, and some of them didn’t.
Yep
My mother stated on her college application she intended to become a doctor, and she was shunted into the nursing program.
Lyssa
Oh, yes, I’m definitely not trying to say that they were the norm. I was just toying around with the idea of what I, personally, would have done and thought if I had been born in a different time. I’ve always been pretty ambitious and ready to buck social norms, but of course, that was easy when you were born in 1980 – if I had a 50’s mindset (or whenever), how would I have approached things differently?
Do you guys wonder about such things? Like, I’d like to think that I’d have been a huge supporter of the Revolutionary War, had I been of that time, but would I have been, without my modern knowledge of how well it worked out?
cbackson
I totally wonder this all the time. Like, I would love to assume that I would have been fully on Team Anti-Slavery back in the day, but being honest, my ancestors were highly privileged wealthy southerners who owned a LOT of land and slaves and I’m descended from a Confederate general and a bunch of Confederate officers. Maybe I would have been the one person in the family who realized that I was benefiting from a system founded on a vast moral wrong, but the odds are that I would have shared their flaws and blindness.
It’s like when I was in Sunday School and we were taught about all the martyrs for the faith and I always secretly knew that I would have been like, “Okay! I was totally kidding about the Jesus thing! Caesar + Jove 4+EVA!”
Flying Squirrel
This is a really interesting point, for which I don’t really have an answer.
My mom is a physician who started her career at a time and place where many women stopped working upon getting married or having kids (this included a couple of her friends who had medical degrees). She was personally ambitious career-wise, moreso than my dad maybe even. But she had kids young by today’s standards; because, in a sense no one batted an eye (first at 28 y.o., last at 37 y.o.). It was tough I know, probably tougher than it is now. But at the same time, I think people would have considered it much more of a sign of my lack of seriousness if I had had kids that young.
In some ways, when you are a pioneer you set the rules. Now professional women (and moms) are no longer unusual. But the assumption is that you will wait to have kids (and the understanding of the impact on health and fertility is really not there amongst employers despite all the articles hitting everyone over their heads about this). It’s great the fertility treatments exist…and even if I hadn’t needed them, it’s great that it’s possible to establish yourself professionally first. But I feel like it’s considered much less okay to have kids while trying to establish yourself than it used to be. And that’s really unfortunate.
Lyssa
Right -that’s sort of what I was trying to say. There are different expectations, and some of them are less favorable to motherhood even though they’re more favorable to professional women. Which makes sense to some extent, since we now can plan it so easily that it seems downright irresponsible not to plan at least to some degree, but it can go too far as well.
Anastasia
Huh, it’s interesting to me that you think 28 is “young by todays standards.” I had my first at 29, and I thought that was pretty old… I have many friends/acquaintances/coworkers who had their first child before 25, including a couple who are physicians or lawyers. I remember one of my good friends commented when she was about 24 that she was the oldest woman in her extended family unmarried and childless and everyone thought she was an old maid.
I’m sure part of this is regional. I have a lot of friends who are Midwesterners or Southerners, but the norm in DC is definitely waiting longer before kids. It kind of makes me wonder whether it’s “easier” to have kids earlier in your career with less impact in non-major-costal-cities, just because the prevailing culture expects young families. Then again, the prevailing culture may also be more in favor of SAHM, so the opposite is also possible. I should move back to the Midwest to investigate further.
Anastasia
For goodness sake, in moderation for oppos1te!
Huh, it’s interesting to me that you think 28 is “young by todays standards.” I had my first at 29, and I thought that was pretty old… I have many friends/acquaintances/coworkers who had their first child before 25, including a couple who are physicians or lawyers. I remember one of my good friends commented when she was about 24 that she was the oldest woman in her extended family unmarried and childless and everyone thought she was an old maid.
I’m sure part of this is regional. I have a lot of friends who are Midwesterners or Southerners, but the norm in DC is definitely waiting longer before kids. It kind of makes me wonder whether it’s “easier” to have kids earlier in your career with less impact in non-major-costal-cities, just because the prevailing culture expects young families. Then again, the prevailing culture may also be more in favor of SAHM, so the oppos1te is also possible. I should move back to the Midwest to investigate further.
Alana
One thing that I noticed is that when working in the midwest, my male peers married to SAHM generallly did not have to pay for her student loans for graduate school. It seems that for women with graduate degrees and large student loans, they are only able to be SAHM if married to high-earning men.
cbackson
I will also add this – I used to work in a Latin American country that was generally considered to be fairly conservative, but that had many, many prominent women in politics and business. All of them were married with kids and families. A big piece of that was due to the fact that wealthy women in that country were not expected to be the primary caretakers of their children, whether or not they worked – stay at home mothers had full-time day and night live-in nannies, typically. So it was easier for women to buck tradition in terms of seeking a career because there was another strong tradition that childcare was outsourced.
Not entirely related, but your post made me think of it.
(Also, I have never felt sad about Elena Kagan, but the excerpt I read of Sonia Sotomayor’s autobiography did depress me – not because she didn’t have kids, but because she didn’t seem to have anybody. I get that part of her autobiography is about her realizing that she was too much of an island, but man, it made me super-sad for her.)
ek
Also, chances are good that Elena Kagan is gay. Not to add too many topics into this conversation but I think that is an important thing to note. Not many gay women of her generation had children unless with a previous male partner.
I think this is one area that has changed significantly over the last 50 years.
PolyD
I don’t feel sad when anyone has a child they want.
I DO feel sad that in all those articles about work/life balance, how to succeed as a woman in business, the default assumption seems to be that ALL women want to have children, and of those that didn’t, it was because they couldn’t, not because they just didn’t want to.
I also feel sad about all the articles that warn women that their fertility will decrease as they age so they should think about this if they want kids (which is entirely true – all those celebrities having babies in their 40s probably used intense fertility treatments and/or donor eggs), but never seem to include men as part of the calculation. The articles are all just directed at the women. I’m sure lots of women would have preferred to have children at a younger age, but their male peers were just not on board, since it’s less of a factor for men to wait until they are older to have kids.
Anon
Yes. I hear ya. I’m also sad when friends have kids too as I know I’ll lose them for a few years while they become absorbed in it all.
Flying Squirrel
FWIW worth, they are probably less absorbed than overwhelmed and tired. I would love to see friends more often, but it’s really had to find the time to schedule things (and especially coordinate going out at night). But if friends wanted to drop by, even casually and last minute, I would love it.
Anon2
Do you expect them to prove to you that they are not succumbing to societal pressure by not having children? Do you feel sad when a male CEO has a child? Do you think women should be childless in order to function as a CEO or be powerful?
This is the bias against women that they are expected to be childless in order to be considered worthy of pay equal to men. We see so many articles how having a child impacts her earnings even when she works and contributes same as male counterparts. This is the fight women have on their hands and not whether to have children. In fact I am happy when powerful women has a child because they will undergo lot of changes that ordinary working women go through. But the difference is, they have the ability to make changes in workplace due to the power they have. For example, I was shocked when there a discussion going on about pumping at work when the office has just glass walls and cubes and many mentioned about lack of a decent private room (like they have a room in basement etc). In our office, we have cubes. But we also have 2 rooms dedicated for pumping in each floor, each room is subdivided in 2 private areas. There are desks and refrigerator in each room. This was possible due to the efforts of a very high ranking female manager in our company who knew the need for private rooms.
Baconpancakes
Would we ever even know if a male CEO had children?
Anon
Probably not. However, what part of this not-knowing is the result of the physical reality that he’s never pregnant?
Em
Virtually none. It’s not like most of us spend our free time looking at pictures of female CEOs so we can spot the baby bump. The fact that they are pregnant is heavily covered.
Baconpancakes
Thinking about it at my own company, I’m not entirely certain whether our male CEO has children, although I’ve seen he wears a wedding ring. I am, however, certain our female CFO has at least one child, a son in his early 20’s. Why do I know that? How do I even know that? Honestly, I’m not sure, considering I’ve actually spoken to our CEO and never exchanged two words with our CFO.
Anon
As a counterpoint – only one of my company’s C-level executives is female. I know how many children each of the execs has (male and female execs).
Parfait
I don’t care at all about female public figures who reproduce or don’t. It annoys me that this suddenly becomes the most important thing about them and that’s all we ever hear about. She was interesting before, right?
Anon For This
Amazed at the intelligent responses to this but yes some of you got what I was getting at. Often times a woman’s accomplishments go out the window the second she has a child, company bios now start with ‘Jane is the proud mother of Joe’ and focus isn’t on all a women’s wonderful attributes rather the fact that she performed a biological function.
Maddie Ross
That’s an interesting comment about the change in company bio/CV for professional speaking gigs, etc. I wonder how much of that comes from the push (that at least I’ve seen and experienced) to not define yourself by your job. I’ve been told that I shouldn’t say “I’m a lawyer, wife and mother,” as an example, but should lead with what’s most important to me – i.e., saying “I’m a wife, mother and lawyer.” I’ve heard that in a gender-neutral context though. (I’m a spouse, parent and lawyer/business person/inventer/banker, etc.)
Maddie Ross
Ugh, tried to edit but wasn’t fast enough. I didn’t mean gender-neutral like I shouldn’t ID myself as a wife or a man as a husband, but rather gender-neutral like men received the same advice and should similarly lead with the role or identifyer most important to them.
Senior Attorney
Gah. Really? Somebody is telling you to put that list (“wife, mother, lawyer”) in that order in a professional context? For heaven’s sake, what on earth is wrong with defining oneself by one’s job when one is making a professional presentation? And I certainly feel like if I’m paying you huge bucks to represent me in a lawsuit, being my lawyer for dang sure better be the most important role for you during the hours you’re working on my case. (Or at least you should make me feel like it is!)
(I put “proud mother of a U.S. Marine” at the very very very bottom of my CV, right after “avid tap-dancer.”)
Wannabe Runner
Yeah, I’ve never seen this. In professional bios, I more likely see, “She lives with her two kids, husband, and 3 pugs in L.A.” or whatever as the last sentence.
Also anon
I feel a very specific kind of sadness that’s related to my workplace. We have a pretty severe mommy track and announcing that you are pregnant usually means that you are also looking for another job and will be gone within 6 months of coming back from maternity leave (if you come back at all). I’m not sad for them, but sad for me that another awesome female colleague will be out the door within the year. It’s lonely.
ETA: we have more or less the same problem for men, but since the men have less age pressure (and are mostly married to younger women) they tend to wait to have kids at least until they make NEP.
E
Tis the season.. I’m wondering if anyone wants to do some vicarious shopping for me… I’m looking for a scarf that I can use as a blanket/wrap for work. I’m always freezing. This year I will invest in heattech layers from Uniqlo but I’m debating on waiting for the Chicago store (no date yet :( ) to open up or when I go to NYC in a month or so. I’m eyeing these two:
http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/halogen-diamond-stitch-wool-blend-wrap/3675682?origin=category
http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/nordstrom-tissue-weight-wool-cashmere-wrap/3196871?origin=category
I don’t want to spend more than $100 but I’ll spend up to $200 if it’s absolutely amazing.
AIMS
I like the second one, I don’t think the first would be all that warm. Or what about something like this:
http://www.lastcall.com/BCBGMAXAZRIA-Cashmere-Blend-Runa-Knit-Wrap-Heather-Gray-wrap/prod27200034___/p.prod?icid=&searchType=SEARCH&rte=%252Fsearch.jsp%253FN%253D0%2526Ntt%253Dwrap%2526_requestid%253D28963&eItemId=prod27200034&cmCat=search
E
oh man i ordered the two wraps i linked to bc i can in store pick up at a nearby nordstrom after work but i just might have to get that one too/instead. thanks!
GingerRed
I have the Diamond Stitch wrap from Nordstrom (two, actually — purple and green) and I love them. I find them warm enough, really soft and generally like wearing a socially acceptable blanket around work. I highly recommend them!
E
wonderful. thanks. i need a socially acceptable blanket because I’m currently using my north face fleece jacket as a blanket.. several corporette commenters previously indicated this is not work appropriate..whatever hence me actually pulling the trigger on these wraps
Anon
Has anyone ever dated someone with hemophilia? Or if you have it yourself, what is treatment like? Can you engage in normal physical activities like sports?
Apologies if my questions are ignorant, I’m genuinely curious.
attornaut
Depends on severity and type. Sometimes it is manageable with medication, sometimes with periodic blood infusions, sometimes more severe. Also depends on the sport–things that involve little contact and thus less chance of bruising are more likely to happen than tackle football, though anything that is tough on the joints is almost certainly not worth it.
Pesh
Dated, no, but had a close family friend who had Hemophilia. This was many years ago, so I’m sure there have been medical advancements since, but he had to have intravenous platelets (Factor 8) daily and then again anytime he got a “bleed”. Usually a “bleed” wasn’t an open cut, but was a bruise that would continue to pool under his skin without the addition of platelets. For him (a young boy) that would be anytime he bumped into something, rolled over something, played too aggressively, etc. So non-gentle contact with something would usually result in him needing an infusion of platelets. However, there are different levels of severity, and with new medical advancements, this might not apply to your situation.
Not sure if that was helpful, but it made me think of my friend and smile.
Edited to add: I’m sure the person you’re dating is also tested for communicable diseases frequently if they’re on a platelet or blood product therapy. Even though it’s screened, mistakes can happen and you can’t be too careful. So it goes without saying that you’ll want to take certain precautions if your relationship becomes intimate. I’m sure you already know that, but some people assume that blood screening is fool-proof, so couldn’t not say it.
Roman Holiday
Question for the Hive – My SO and I are in the process of buying a car together that will be shared, but mostly mine. To make things more fun, we’re also in the process of moving (in together. For the first time). Everything has sort of come to a head at the exact time when my boss is out of the office and I’m absolutely swamped at work, so he has taken on most of the admin details, talking to the garage, registering the car, making the necessary appointments, dealing with insurance transfer etc.
Obviously I appreciate his help here, but I can’t shake the feeling that I “owe” him something for doing all this, when logically I know it should just be part of being a couple.
Do you ever feel the need to “repay” your SO/spouse/partner for stuff like this? Or is this just more of a something that happens naturally as a relationship progresses? Or should I just cook him a nice dinner and quit obsessing? TIA.
Maddie Ross
I get where you are coming from with the “repaying” your spouse/SO for handling the brunt of what was intended to be a shared task. But FWIW, no relationship is 100% balanced at 50-50 all the time. I think the best way to handle is to thank him (not profusely, just geniunely) and make a note the next time you can pick up slightly more slack to do so (i.e., when work slows down, give him a morning to sleep in, etc.).
Diana Barry
+1. Relationships are give and take. I feel the same when I get sick and my DH goes out to get me chicken soup and takes care of all the kids, but he appreciates when I get up with sick kids at night, do the car shopping stuff, etc.
Anonymous
Sure, I feel the need to repay my SO. Same way I thank anyone who’s gone above and beyond for me. But all I feel I owe him is a hearty thank you, a commitment to step up when I can, and an extra effort to cook his favorite dinner.
Roman Holiday
Thanks – very good advice!
kc
It just happens when you’re in a couple. We just moved into a new apartment, while me getting rid of my old apartment, and we’re getting married in a month. It was crazy. I felt a lot of times like things were 70/30 (with him doing the 70) because I was taking care of the wedding while he was taking care of the moving, but that’s how it is. Now that we’re moved his work is crazy and it’s 70/30 tilted towards me with me taking care of everything at home (housework, dinner, decorating the house, finishing up wedding planning). It’s just the way it is and we just say “thank you” every chance we get.
buffybot
Consistent with what the previous commenters have said, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with feeling like you “owe” your significant other for being amazing. A relationship shouldn’t be tit-for-tat bean counting, but I think it’s healthy to recognize when the other party has given so much, so that you remember to (1) be grateful and let them know that you value their contributions and (2) try to be aware of ways that you can be just as wonderful in return. I don’t think of it as “husband helped me X amount so I need to help him X amount” — more like, this is evidence that husband puts so much time and love into our relationship/taking care of me and so I want to do the same. Not so that I stop “owing” something, but because it’s the right thing to do.
Sarabeth
If you want to cook the nice dinner, go for it. But if it’s a long term relationship, I think you can trust that you will naturally end up repaying him in the future, when circumstances arise that push an unequal burden onto you for awhile. No need to make it absolutely equal on a day to day (or even week to week) basis.
Other
I haven’t really felt it in terms of “owe” or need to “repay” – I just feel really appreciative. I think there is a difference there; I would do the same for him, and I appreciate that he steps up when I need help. I usually try to do something to show my appreciation, but I’ve never felt obligated to do anything when he steps up (which is how I interpret the use of the words owe/repay, etc.). We also merged our lives together a long time ago, so maybe I’ve just more used to the constant ebb/flow of a partnership of two busy people who often trade who runs point on shared tasks.
Anonymous
This is a bit of a frivolous question, but I’ll ask anyways
I’m a junior in college and I’ve never had a serious boyfriend. Should I be “worried”?
I have plenty of guy friends, I’ve been on dates, but never had a real boyfriend, unlike many of my friends. I’m not extroverted, but I’m not shy either. This sounds silly, but should I try to find a boyfriend, be focused about it, or just let whatever happen at whatever rate? I don’t necessarily want a boyfriend right now, but I wouldn’t mind either!
Anonymous
I had my first boyfriend as a first year in college, and my first serious boyfriend as a second year. It came about naturally from friendships. I wouldn’t worry much about the timing – when it’s right its right – but do make yourself open to it. It can be easy to fall into friend ruts.
Anonymous
Kat, can anything be done about the “you’re posting too fast” concept? It’s a huge deterrent from my participating more here. I’m not going to take the time to type something out if there’s a real chance I’ll either have to refresh 5 or 6 times (or more!) or it will be lost to the ether because too many people are posting at once.
jc
+1
Other
+2
I’ve largely stopped commenting b/c I get the message frequently. The refresh trick also doesn’t usually work, in that I tire of refreshing before my comment appears.
Diana Barry
+1. Actually my best BF/GF relationships in college came from my friends setting me up (!!), so you could ask your friends about it and see if they can matchmake for you. It does work!
FWIW, I have friends who had great relationships and some marriages develop from hookups in college.
(former) preg 3L
This might be unpopular advice, but I feel you should look at it the same way you look at your career: are you doing what needs to be done now to allow you to have what you want in the future? If you want to be married with kids by the time you’re 25, then yeah you should probably be worried if you’re 21 and you’ve never had a serious boyfriend. If you want to be married with kids by the time you’re 35, then you have nearly 15 years, which is a really long time. I think the most important thing is to be aware of where you are, where you’re headed, and how to get where you want to go. Only be “worried” if your desires don’t align with your actions.
Anonymous
I just turned 20 and I’d like to be married by 30ish. I’d also like to travel and work in international relations where a relationship would not be as easy (in my 20s)
kc
No, I would not be worried. You’re in college! I mean look for a boyfriend if you really want one, but you have 10 years. Plus you have no idea what you will want out of your life when you are 25 or 30 or 35, your priorities could be totally different. I think I a lot of people get stuck in their head “I need to be married by 30 and have a baby by 32, etc…”. Just enjoy the hot college guys :)
Anonymous
I mean, what like 70% of college students want to work in “international relations” which isn’t even a job. And my civil service friends are getting married left and right.
I’d only worry about not having a boyfriend if you want one. But growing up is about realizing that some things you can’t plan check list style. Do the work of growing up, figuring out who you are, and what you really want so someday you’re really ready for a serious relationship when it comes along.
Brant
I dated a few guys in high school, one in early college, then spent my junior/senior year being social and, ah, enjoying the random hookups. At the end of my senior year, I had one main random hookup and we started actually dating right as college ended. We both ended up getting jobs in the same city, and stayed together, eventually going to grad school, moving in together, going to more grad school, getting married, etc. I was *not* looking for a “boyfriend” in college; I had too much other stuff to deal with.
What ended up happening to the vast, vast majority of my “crowd” in college was that we all dispersed after graduation to random cities and played “musical cities” for a while. Having a wide network of college friends in each city led to lots of friends-of-friends introductions and many, many marriages. I’d say 80% of my college friends that are married met their SO through another college friend.
layered bob
I completely agree. If marriage and family are important to you, you should go and get it – put yourself into places and situations where you will meet men who want the same things. Put effort into dating. Put effort into yourself, so that you are clear on who you are and what you want – this could mean therapy and/or career counseling. Cultivate friendships/mentorships with people who are older than you who have healthy relationships that you admire. You will never have more time or a bigger pool (of men and resources) than you do now.
That said, if you don’t want a boyfriend and have relationships with men and women that you enjoy, and you’re not set on being married… don’t worry about it.
Em
Oh Good lord, a college junior doesn’t need therapy because she doesn’t have a serious boyfriend; she probably would, however, need therapy if she feels like she needs therapy to figure out why she wasn’t meeting her relationship and/or career goals, just not for the reasons she thinks.
layered bob
not therapy because she doesn’t have a boyfriend; therapy because it’s often free or very cheap in college and very accessible, and can be helpful for many people to figure out a lot of the stuff that comes up in your life when you’re a young adult.
swisscheese
I completely agree with this advice, as a former 38yo newlywed. Marriage was something I wanted, but didn’t really pursue throughout my 20s. When I began to make an effort the whole process felt more compressed because I was really worried about my biological clock. I’m very happy with my husband but I felt a lot of anxiety when we got serious because I didn’t have a lot of relationship experience. I had to learn to ask for alone-time, etc. There would have been a lot less stress if I had learned these skills in my 20s with everyone else.
L
Good god. Yes, you must clearly stick to all the timelines you lay out in life at 20. If I did that I wouldn’t be getting married anytime soon, would have gone back to law school by now (unnecessarily since I don’t want to practice law) and would own my own condo in a city I’ve never visited.
All of this is to say, relax. Date, don’t date, you’re not guaranteed to find “THE ONE” by x date. If you have issues that make it hard for you to connect with people, by all means address those, but you’re not broken because you haven’t dated someone.
2 Cents
In college, I dated this guy for three months my junior year. While it was (mostly) fun, it was also forgettable. I didn’t date in high school, grad school or after grad school either.
I found my husband by joining an online dating website. After a few dates with other guys, I found my husband after 6 months. Was I worried because I had never had a long-term relationship before? A bit. But we just “fit” so perfectly together and it was (and still is) such an easy relationship to be in that it made the previous 26 years of singledom worth it.
So, if you want a boyfriend, you can certainly go for it. But after graduation and at the tender age of 21, I was somewhat relieved I only had to worry about me and where I wanted to go/do rather than juggle another person’s likes and dislikes. I don’t feel like I missed out. I had a great group of friends and was able to scrounge up a wedding date when I felt like I needed one (or I went alone and danced with everyone, since being single at a wedding can make you a prized commodity). Now that I’m married, I’m happy I had those years to myself to do what I wanted when I wanted.
Em
No. I’m 31; most of the woman I know who didn’t have a serious boyfriend in college are married with children. Some of the ones who did aren’t. I don’t see much of a correlation.
Anonymous
Do NOT worry about it. I didn’t have a real boyfriend until I was 24 and in law school. And looking back at that guy I can’t believe he was my boyfriend, haha. You have loads of time.
LawyrChk
I vote for let what happens happen. No need to require yourself to couple up with the wrong person just to say you’ve done it.
Sydney Bristow
Anecdata here. I dated through high school and part of college but never really had a serious boyfriend. Then I didn’t really date until I was 28 and met my now-fiancé. We’ll be getting married when I’m 32. It’s worked out perfectly for me. I was able to make a cross-country move easily because I only had to consider myself. I got to watch many of my friends go through good and bad relationships, get married, etc and learned what I wanted in my own relationships. I also feel like I really came into my own and truly know myself.
I was worried when I was your age but it worked out great for me. That said, if you want to spend time seeking out a significant other then do so! Do what you want to do and what feels right.
January
Don’t worry about it. Seriously. I was you when I was 20, and I worried about it all the time, and now I’m 30 and — guess what? — I’ve never had a serious boyfriend. I’m not saying this to scare you — I date when I feel like it now, and I am a lot less worried about it than I used to be, but I am also convinced that the thing that held me back is that I worried so much about it. I have a lot of friends who were also in your (our) shoes at 20, and many of them are married or in relationships now. It doesn’t have to be a big deal, so don’t make it into one in your head.
PS – I took the “whatever happens, happens” approach. It hasn’t necessarily worked out for me, in the sense that I’m not coupled up at 30, but I also have no idea how one would go about looking for a boyfriend in a way that would ensure that one’s personal/romantic goals are fulfilled by a certain age (sometimes I wish I did!) My main point is the same, though: don’t worry. It won’t get you anywhere, and the fact of the matter is, you’ll be okay even if you’re not married at 30.
January
I just wanted to add that my post might seem really discouraging to you, but that’s not the way I meant it. Maybe you’re a late bloomer, and you just haven’t been ready yet. Maybe you’re surrounded by late bloomers. Be nice to yourself, and don’t get so deep into your own insecurities that you don’t notice the world around you.
Pesh
Are you me? I was just about to write almost the same exact thing. I’m 31 and while I’ve had meaningful relationships, I haven’t had a serious long-term boyfriend. I’m smart and funny and nice looking, I take care of myself and am in-shape, have a nice circle of girlfriends, but for whatever reason, I haven’t had a serious relationship. I used to worry a lot about it, and it really bothered me, but I’m learning to relax about it. It will come eventually, and being insecure about it won’t help things. It made me feel better to see you’ve had a similar experience, January!
hmay
You’re still young. I wouldn’t worry about it! But maybe you should read The Defining Decade for some perspective :)
(former) preg 3L
I love that book! Seconding this recommendation!
Baconpancakes
I love/hate that book, mostly because I wish I’d read it at 23 instead of 28.
January
+1 – but unfortunately, I was already 28 when it was published. If only there were time travel!
Anonymous
I didn’t have my first serious boyfriend until I was 26 and in my last year of law school. I don’t regret “missing out” on any of the guys in high school or college, but I do sometimes wish I’d had a boyfriend just to get some experience being in a relationship. I made a lot of really dumb mistakes with my first boyfriend and continue to make them now because I just don’t have experience being part of a couple. Now, do I think I “lost Mr. Right” because of that inexperience? Not anymore–but I did when we first broke up, and it would’ve saved me a lot of grieving and self-hatred if I’d been able to see that we broke up because we didn’t fit together, and not because I didn’t know how to communicate effectively or be patient with him or one of the many other “screw ups” I blamed myself for. So, I’ll throw in one vote for dating just to get some experience. You don’t have to marry the guy.
Missk
I wouldn’t “worry” about it–can’t make something happen when it’s not gonna happen (especially when you go to a school full of shy nerds, half of whom are still in the closet)… but I digress.
If hindsight is 20/20, I wish I had put myself out there more, been more daring in college so I’m not left with what-ifs. This is all despite having had ‘boyfriends’ in high school.
I do think that there are more opportunities to meet people in a relatively risk-free environment while you’re in college, so I would take advantage of that while you can!
hmay
+1 to last sentence
Diana Barry
I agree with this too, especially the what-ifs.
LH
Anecdata – I didn’t have a BF til senior year of college. We dated for a couple years, broke up and then six months later I met my now-husband. Most of my friends didn’t have a serious relationship in college and now that we’re 30-ish everyone is married or engaged. I wouldn’t worry about it, it will happen sooner or later.
E
Cliche advice, but you need to do you. I’m 25. I met my first (and current) boyfriend the end of my junior year of college but we didn’t start dating until after college when I was 22. Neither of us felt we were in the right place to start dating. Of course I wanted a boyfriend during all that time but I chose not to fixate on it. It’ll happen. Just do the things that make you happy and do the things you want to do. Focus on your career and travel. Go on an online dating site if you want (after you graduate!!) but this is not the end all be all. I consider myself a successful 20something and I feel like I have everything I want right now
Brunette Elle Woods
I didn’t have a serious boyfriend until I was 21 so don’t worry or feel pressure that you have to have a boyfriend. It’s your life. Do whatever you want. That being said, having a variety of experiences and boyfriends can give you better insight into what you want and need from a serious relationship. It can give you a better idea of what you’re looking for. It’s not a bad idea to “try things on and see how they fit”.
Lo & Sons OMG - Faulty Zippers
Since I know many ladies on this site own the Lo & Sons OMG/OG, I was hoping I could get some advice from the hive on a problem I’m having with the bag. I’ve owned my bag about a year and in the past month, two of the zippers (one of the main zippers, and the side pocket zipper) no longer function. Has anyone else experienced this, or have any experience dealing with their customer service on quality issues?
Anonymous
Srsly? Just call customer service and ask. What else are you going to do.
Lo & Sons OMG - Faulty Zippers
Thanks for the snark. One, I was trying to assess if this is a rare occurrence or if this is a more common problem with the bags. These bags are only sold through their website and so it’s not like I can look at Amazon or other sources for reviews, so anecdata from thissite is probably my best bet to understand if this is a systemic issue. In that case, I might not want to bother requesting a replacement bag, and others might want to know that as well prior to considering a purchase. Posts here asking about these bags are relatively common. Second, if someone had tips for dealing with their customer service and I could benefit from that experience, that would be appreciated.
Anon in NYC
I had a problem with the side pocket zipper within the first few weeks (the teeth were crooked and it wouldn’t fully zip). Customer service replaced the bag.
espresso bean
Yes. Contact customer service and send a photo of the issue (if possible) and a description. They’ve replaced my bag in a similar situation, no questions asked.
Lo & Sons OMG - Faulty Zippers
Thanks all – really appreciate the feedback! I’ll get in touch with customer service.
E
I have the Brookline and the strap broke after about 1.5yrs of use. I emailed them and they replaced it promptly. I’d expect the same with zippers.
big fat chunky sweaters
Any suggestions. Shivering in my office before the first day of fall.
Anonymous
http://www.saksfifthavenue.com/main/ProductDetail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524446715951&site_refer=GGLPRADS001&cagpspn=pla&CAWELAID=500002830005348684&catargetid=500002830005596497&cadevice=c
Size down.
Charcoal Pants
What color shoes do you wear with charcoal pants? I’m looking for an every day pair that would also work with navy pants.
Anon
Nude-for-me (which, for me, is super light beige)
Hollis Doyle
I was all set to recommend the Payless Karmen in gray patent that I own and wear all the time, but when I went to Payless’ website to get the link for you I noticed they’re not currently carrying it in gray. Boo! I looked long and hard for gray pumps and found those. Not only are they $20, but they’re super comfy and the perfect height (for me at least). Otherwise, with gray/navy you could wear Kat’s beloved purple shoes, pewter, burgundy, or cognac, depending on what color top you’re wearing.
Orangerie
I mostly wear black, grey, or navy shoes with my charcoal pencil skirt depending on the rest of the outfit.
Diana Barry
Purple, blue with green, red, beige/pink, green, black, yellow. Basically any color! Depending on what my outfit is.
Medic Maggie
+1. I wear hot pink flats a lot with my gray pants. I have a pair of black/white pinstripe flats that I wear with them too, just because the overall effect of the shoes is more of a gray/neutral than a stark/bold black. I also like camel/tobacco with gray; navy; purple; hunter or kelly green.
Wannabe Runner
I wear black all the time with gray. Colors are fun, but black is fine.
Gender Differences?
Do men have the Frump Factor?
Husband is currently interviewing. He hasn’t bought a suit since 2005. I’m trying to convince him to buy a new suit for interviewing, even though the old ones still fit him, they are clearly (to me) out of style. I think clothes like that to set an image and to help get the job are worth it, for men, too.
Thoughts?
Maddie Ross
Yes, 100% men can be frumpy. My husband’s suits from 2004/2005 look like he borrower them from a football linebacker now – they just hang on him. Newer suits are cut much slimmer. Male frump to me (circa now) includes suits/pants are too big or baggy (or even worse, pleated), cargo shorts, heavy skechers shoes for dress purposes, tucked in white t-shirts, and items of that ilk.
anon
haha my husband meets all of those examples other than the too-big suits, but I love it!
Diana Barry
Agreed. Get him a new suit. Even the Jos A Bank ones are pretty good for interviews, esp if he has a nice shirt and nice tie. Or, better yet, go to Nordstrom. Their store brand shirts are GREAT and I’m sure the suits are too (they are too expensive for my DH though).
Unicorn
OMG I canNOT talk DH out of pleated pants. He thinks they’re “more professional.” Yikes.
Anon
What if your husband is “husky”? My hubs just absolutely looks ridiculous in skinny jeans, and I’m not sure what to suggest re: suits. He needs a new one, but the pee-wee Herman fit is just not going to look right on his body type. He is not really shaped like your typical hipster.
Orangerie
IDK, my dad is not shaped like a “typical hipster” either and he found a great Hugo Boss suit at Nordstrom recently. Slim cut doesn’t have to be skin tight… there’s a big margin between that and a decade-old baggy suit.
E
omg yes. my boyfriend had about 25lbs more of muscle on him when he was interviewing in college 4yrs ago compared to now. he doesnt think he needs a new suit.
Anonymous
Men absolutely have a frump factor. I would continue to push a new suit for “best.”
Orangerie
Frumpiness is not s3x specific. To me it just means someone’s clothes are outdated and/or ill-fitted, and perhaps their personal grooming also needs some attention. For a dude that last part might include updating his haircut to something more modern or maybe just cleaning up the style in general (lots of hair growing on the lower neck, scraggly sideburns, etc). With respect to clothes, a 10 year old dated looking suit would probably fall in the frump category, too.
Gail the Goldfish
My thought process: “A suit from 2005 isn’t that old… Holy crap, that is almost 10 years.” Seriously, where’d the last decade go?
newly in house
This. It wasn’t until I read your comment that I realized that meant it was almost 10 years old.
Bonnie
Yes. This morning, had to tell DH to retire the too big and too light chinos.
Wannabe Runner
Our friends are having a garage sale and we are donating some items. This morning my husband told me he was putting all his light-colored jeans in the pile to go. He wore these exclusively when we started dating in 2011, and I had to convince him to get some darker jeans. I am rejoicing!!
My husband got a very reasonably priced more modern suit at Burlington Coat Factory recently.
Erin @ Her Heartland Soul
Anyone have a favorite fashion blogger they love? One who actually wears clothes in price ranges normal people can afford? I’m looking to start reading some more and would love suggestions. Thank you!
Ginjury
I like Franish, 26 and Counting, and Work Clothes, I Suppose. All three are women with curvier bodies and wear fairly affordable clothes.
Erin @ Her Heartland Soul
Thank you so much!
(former) preg 3L
I also like Franish.
Additionally: Putting Me Together is very affordable but usually a little too casual for my office.
Medic Maggie
I will have to follow this too. I like the “actually wears clothes in prices ranges normal people can afford”
AMB
Just looked at Franish – she is so cute and looks similar to my build :). Thanks for the rec!
Sparrow
Outfit Posts and Wardobe Oxygen
Erin @ Her Heartland Soul
Thank you so much!
E
penny pincher fashion. classy cubicle wears more $$ stuff but i still recommend her.
Erin @ Her Heartland Soul
Thank you!
anonsg
Check out A Glossy Discourse. She covers fashion among other topics and is kind of new but she has good recommendations.
Judgy Much?
As a long time poster/follower, today’s comments have been really pointed (in my mind). It has now come to my attention that I am being silent judged for (a) having children after getting married (because duh, it was expected, or not my choice, or I gave into society’s pressure), (b) changing my name (because the man is keeping me down), and (c) eating meat (I’m not sure why though exactly). This all? This right here? This is why women will never advance to be true equals of men. Girl on girl violence is the worst.
Anon
An anecdote from talking to a friend:
She mentioned that she and her husband had already picked out names for their unborn child. I asked her if they were keeping them a secret, since I knew a lot of people do that in order to avoid commentary on the choice of names?
Her response was that keeping them a secret only makes sense if you care so much about other people’s opinions that you’d let it color your choices.
And then she told me the names.
People have opinions. People judge other people. It’s life. As long as you’re happy with your choices, who cares?
Ha
When I hear that parents are keeping the name secret, all I can think is “Oh, this is gonna be good…”
Tecan
+1 I admire your friend’s sensibilities.
AIMS
I think part of the benefit of an anonymous internet forum is that you can hear thoughts expressed that people wouldn’t necessarily express to you IRL. I consider that a good thing, but I can see how some people might not. Obviously, it goes without saying that this would all go out the window if the tone became like that of most of the internet but I think the tone here is still largely respectful (with obvious exceptions) and most of the thoughts expressed are usually accompanied by where the poster is coming from which I think is helpful in understanding different points of view.
That said, I am not sure how you get to people judging you for eating meat when the only comment specifically about this is “I have no opinion whatsoever on people who choose to eat meat.” Obviously, some people IRL do and will judge meat eaters, but I don’t think it’s news to anyone that most of our choices will be judged by someone.
Hyperbole much?
“This is why women will never advance to be true equals of men. Girl on girl violence is the worst.”
I am judging you. Please go troll somewhere else.
Orangerie
Omg yes. I haaaate the “girl on girl violence” / “women should build each other up just because we are women” rhetoric.
rachelellen
+1000
Like it’s worse than man on girl violence? Ask the footballer’s wife, when she wakes up.
JJ
I agree to the extent that it’s always interesting to hear that people judge my life choices (two kids, married and took my spouse’s name, etc. etc. etc.), but then I realize that these are anonymous people on the internet and I’m happy with my life. Someone judges me for taking my husband’s name? Ok. It doesn’t change my life in the slightest.
Anonymous
I’m so sorry that you’re so normative? Puh-lease, this is like when white men complain about being opressed. Accept that you fit into the expected societal norms and that it makes your life easier. I am a single, childless, non-meat eater, and I could not care less what you do, but I 100% judge you for this post.
Other
ha – I’m a married, husband name taker, bearer of two children, and the “judgy much” post made me laugh.
We all have our reasons for doing what we do. For reasons way too complicated to go into here, it was important to husband and me that our kids got his name, and I wanted to share a name with all of them. My maiden name carried none of the same significance, but my mom’s maiden name would have (which was never part of my name). So, our kids got my husband’s last name, and family names from my mom as their first names. I love where we ended up, and I don’t think twice about anyone who would presume anything about my life/beliefs based on the one data point that I took my husband’s name.
Alana
Unfortunately, we are all judged. If you are happy with your choices, then who cares what other people think?
Also, where do you live? Unless you are in a community that rivals San Francisco, your choices are common and receive societal respect world-wide. It might help to think of all the positive comments you have recieved about being a wife and mother to balance the judgment from an internet commenter.
cbackson
Honestly, I think that calling this “girl on girl violence”, as opposed to a serious conversation among professional adult women around very complicated life choices, is highly problematic. We’re not obligated to agree with each other just because we’re women. We’re not obligated to support each other just because we’re women. We’re grown ups, not girls, and this is not the playground.
Anon
+1
Orangerie
+ a million. You said what I was trying to much more eloquently.
anon
You may disagree with what people have been saying, but this not *violence*. Calm down.
Caty
Wasn’t judging you before, but I am now. Don’t take things so personally. If you have something substantive to add the conversation, jump in. Otherwise, you’re just whining.
Pregomama
For those with young kids, or for those that at one point during their lifetime had young kids, what is/was your work/life situation? If you were working, what was your childcare situation? If you were home, for how long were you out of the workforce?
I want to get some concrete family planning conversations happening with DH, and just looking for inspiration / commiseration. Right now we have a 1-year old that has been in daycare 5 days/ week since she was 3 months old. At 5 months, I started keeping her home with me on Mondays (still full time- working like a dog early hours/ late nights/ occasional monday sitter other days of the week to make this happen). When I start to think about kid #2, our current routine doesn’t seem feasible and I’m now mulling over staying home, doing the part-time thing, getting a nanny, two in daycare, one in preschool/ one in daycare, etc.
SuziStockbroker
We just finshed having a full time nanny as our littlest one is now in school full time. She is now coming in 1-6 pm so she can get kid laundry, kid school lunches, cleaning the house, then looking after the little guy after school.
If you want to continue working full time, with multiple little ones, I’d highly recommend a nanny.
pregomama
We don’t yet have a “nanny friendly” house- I generally work from home, and our home is small. If I had a nanny + little ones in the house, it’d never work. So as we start doing some longer range planning, a new house with separate (ie separate wing/ building) home office is part of the plan if that plan is nanny.
Mo
Have you looked into renting office space near your house? It’s a lot less expensive than buying a new place with a separate office.
Anon
+1. We did that for a while and it worked really well.
Medic Maggie
We have a long history…We were intending fully to utilize our community’s “standard” daycare centers. And we did, until my firstborn was diagnosed with severe food allergies before he turned 1. The daycare center we were in did not want to, or appropriately manage his food allergies. We left. We cobbled care together among ourselves & family for about a month, and then we found a nanny. We were not exactly looking for a nanny at the time, we were looking for anything. That was in the summer of 2009 and we have had only nannies ever since. Even after the second was born, we just folded him into the mix, rather than trying for something else.
Our nanny is live-out, and we have a very flexible arrangement. She often covers evenings when hubs & I both have meetings, in exchange for a morning off. She currently works 745-515-ish daily; but on MWF, she leaves the house after taking youngest to preschool at 9, and picks him back up at 1230. She does some housecleaning (cleans their bathroom, half bath, their rooms, upstairs hall, den, kitchen & playroom) plus their laundry. She does meal prep as needed, and she prepares & feeds the boys all of their meals and snacks when she is home.
Having seen both sides of the childcare arrangement (minus a live-in arrangement) I can honestly say that if given the choice, I will never go back to a traditional daycare center. It was recommended by someone here a while back (maybe it was you, Suzi) about after-school care when the kids are in public school. Our youngest will be in kindergarten next year, and oldest will be in 2nd. The thought of having our nanny come to the house around 2-3pm until 5-6 pm to do lunches, cleaning, laundry & making sure everyone gets off the bus (plus backup for early-release days, etc) is brilliant, and absolutely something we will continue to pursue.
For what it’s worth, DH and I both work fulltime out of the house. He has a fairly flexible schedule (well, we both do, but I’m more tied to my desk & office than he is). We both have evening meetings, almost once a week, and often different meetings on the same night. Both of our offices are very good about making sure that we have good family/home balance with work. It was no big deal for me to take off a week in July to be with the kids, then go to a conference, then take Labor Day long(er) weekend off. If we worked in more structured/less flexible jobs, we would probably be even bigger advocates for the nanny-model-of-care.
SuziStockbroker
So far, the half day is working out well for us Maggie Medic. I don’t love having to get the 5 year old out to door to school in the morning myself, but it is lovely to come home to kids who’ve had dinner if they have an after-work activity to go to when we get home, clean kid room, clean kid laundry, dishwasher unloaded, house clean-ish (she cleans a different room or two every day, so its not like it is ALL clean at once like with a cleaning service). She even will start taking the littlest one to martial arts in the neighbourhood from 4-5 in a couple of weeks.
I do pay more than if I had him in after school daycare at the school (which is only $20 a day, versus $70 a day) but it means someone is keeping an eye on my 10.5 year old, who is really too old for after school daycare but I don’t really want at home for 2 hours after school alone (or with his 12 year old sister once she gets home 40 minutes later and he will probably fight with).
Diana Barry
I am 80%. In office 3 days, WAH 1 day, off 1 day. I think that this is close to ideal. I could also work 60% but depending on your job you may not be able to.
We have a nanny and 3 kids. My DH also WAH full time and we work in the basement office. You can also try family day care where they care for the kids in their home, that way your kids would be out of the house if you are WAH.
Anon
I am 85% in BigLaw, but bill full time hours and work in office 4 days/week. My husband works full time and has a crazy commute 3 days/week, works from home 2 days/week. After we had two kids, we gave up on nannies. We never found the right fit, and honestly, in our area, nanny care is extremely expensive, particularly because we pay on the books. (All in, we were paying well over $20/hour for 50 hours/week, which was cost-prohibitive, in addition to the cost of part-time preschool.) We also found that Child 1 was much happier in preschool all day than with the nanny – she’s an extrovert.
Our current system is that Child 1 is in a beloved full-time preschool. Child 2 is in a beloved and teeny home day care. We have an evening sitter who picks the kids up and gets them home two days/week, which is very helpful. We also have a list of back-up sitters and centers – for example, we have two back-up day care centers where we are registered, plus three additional babysitters who the kids know and like.
In general, I think that it’s easier when the kids are little because you can send them off to full time daycare or home care or whatever. You can also find the elusive centers with infant care and preschools (they do exist!). It gets harder as they get older and you try to accommodate more activities – soccer, ballet, etc. That’s the piece that I’m not satisfied with for right now. I suspect that next year, when the oldest is in kindergarten, we may look for an afternoon nanny who can manage activities, help with homework, etc.
pregomama
Our 1-year old is in a daycare that is infant – kindergarten. It’s great. If we sent 2 kids there full time, though, we’d be paying $42-44k+/year at which point it seems silly not to get a nanny. I love the flexible nanny arrangement…I’m thinking once we’re getting serious about kid #2 (probably late next year), it’ll be time to start exploring options more seriously.
Right now, I’m 100% working, working at home 5x a week with the baby home with me 1x/week. I have a lot of control over my schedule and do all my “independent” work on Mondays- I work from 5am-8am when DH leaves, then work while the baby naps for 2.5 hours in the afternoon. DH comes home early on Mondays and makes dinner so I can work from 4-6pm if there’s something critical. Baby goes down to bed at 7, so I am also free to wrap up after that. I love this and if I could keep it up and add another baby to the mix I absolutely would– but I don’t see that happening.
Anon
A few things to consider:
1) Preschool is good for kids. Even if you get a nanny, by the time your child is 3 or so, you’d probably want to have him or her in preschool at least 3 mornings a week or so. Just be sure to add that cost on top of the cost of the nanny.
2) Nap schedules will evolve and change over time.
It’s really challenging to make this all work. It sounds like you have a perfect mix right now, but there’s no guarantee it will stay perfect as baby gets older – in fact, I can almost guarantee that your needs and baby’s needs will all change. A second child is just part of that evolution and mix. I desperately wanted to keep the schedule exactly the same as I had it when my first child was about 18 months (that was the best!), but it doesn’t work like that. It’s a constant process and I do better when I just ride with the flux than when I try to control it too much.
Good luck!
Anon
I work about 60% in a small, boutique practice, about half from home, half from my firm’s office. My kids range 10 to 2 years old. We have a part-time nanny who takes care of the little one certain days of the week, drives carpool, totes kids to activities, takes care of older kids after school. My schedule is sometimes unpredictable, and hers is flexible (grad student in night school), so we work it out. We have a couple of backup options.
Anon
Incidentally, Kat, this kind of truth-telling and solution-providing is exactly what I think CorporetteMoms could do and do well.
Keeping It Light!
I’m new to an office with cubicles. Many people have gone over the top with decor here – some really girly stuff, photos of children plastered all over the walls, sports banners, etc). Not quite sure how to decorate my space…
I’m single and childless so I don’t have the typical family portrait. I have a few pics of my friends and I but don’t want to portray a party girl image.
I’ve looked at a few old posts on this site to see how to decorate so I have a few ideas. I have a couple of Tamara Hensick pewter knickknacks I plan to put on my desk and I’m bringing in a plant. I have a nice coffee mug and my own office accessories. But I’m also looking for small framed art. Maybe two or three small pictures. Do you folks have any recommendations for nice simple pieces of art for a desk? Nothing too girly, flowery or femine but nothing boring either. Perhaps something abstract? Nothing larger than 12″x 12″ -ish. Any suggestions would be wonderful.
Thanks!
Unicorn
If you have traveled, maybe get a few prints of your favorite places? I have framed paintings of some of my favorite national parks in my office.
Keeping It Light!
I like this idea! Thanks Unicorn! :)
Meg Murry
Or just postcards? Cheaper and easier than prints, still look nice, easy to swap in and out on cubicle walls
Keeping It Light!
Good idea!
Wildkitten
I’d check etsy for prints.
Keeping It Light!
I love etsy but it’s so overwhelming! I’ll just have to tough it out and drill down to something I’d love.
Gibbler
No specific recommendations, but some general advice. For the framed art, find something that you like to look at, because, after all, that’s what you’ll be doing. For me, I hate abstract art, in offices or in homes. I’d much rather look at a painting of people or places, so I have beautiful pictures of landmarks in my city. If you like abstract art, then by all means, go find one that you like. The most important part of decorating your space though is to make sure it makes you happy/you like what’s around you because you will spend so much time around whatever you choose. Good luck!
Keeping It Light!
Thanks for the advice. I’m very particular about my abstract art, which probably means I don’t like most of it! :P I’m digging the city landmark idea. I think I’ll go with that one.
Erisa
Have you considered getting some professional, staid portraits of you with your friends? Perhaps in matching black turtlenecks?
I’m only 85% kidding.
Keeping It Light!
I think this is a great idea; however, I don’t think we can sit still that long! :P
Wannabe Runner
I absolutely love nice photos of places I’ve traveled to. Print and frame some photos you’ve taken. I have framed photos my friend took hanging in my office. (Not necessarily of people – just architecture, landscapes, etc.)