This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
Allbirds have been on my radar for quite a while, but I hadn't tried them until recently, when I was inspired to by Ann's recent CorporetteMoms Weekend Open Thread. (She featured Allbirds' Tree Loungers slip-ons.) I was especially intrigued by her mention of Allbirds ReRun, which sells “gently used” Allbirds shoes.
For $70 — instead of $100 — I got a black pair of the pictured style, the Tree Breezer flat, and the shoes arrived in like-new condition. (The styles and colors available on ReRun will vary, so check back later if your desired shoe isn't in stock.)
These shoes are so comfortable! I've never tried knit flats before — Rothy's included — and I love these and will be wearing them a lot this spring and beyond. I can tell they won't give me blisters like some of my other flats have. I haven't tried washing them yet, so I can't speak to that, but I appreciate that they're machine washable.
The Tree Breezer flat, which is made from eucalyptus tree fiber from FSC Certified forests, is $100. It comes in many colors and color combos in sizes 5–11.
Psst: Use this link for $15 off!
This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
Cori
Question for any other Canadians here (eh):
Are there any online retailers in Canada that still sell appropriate pencil skirts at mall-brand price points (e.g. sub $200 CAD)?
Work clothes from the usual vendors seem to have gone exclusively to pants but I’d prefer skirts for the summer heat.
Thanks everyone.
Notinstafamous
Tristan, Kit & Ace (amazingly enough), and RW & Co all seem to have a couple options.
Notinstafamous
Links below!
As a side note, if you happen to be a size 8 and want a black Judith & Charles pencil skirt, I’ll happily mail it to you… I wore it once and decided that I was not a pencil skirt person.
Links: https://www.kitandace.com/ca/en/happy-skirt/KWB10222-10022-M.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwhLKUBhDiARIsAMaTLnGMVI6uw5MuqQInhb0UQN7I__SnkuCFxkc2xP-9lSaKIWk0QqUQGMEaAuxYEALw_wcB
https://www.rw-co.com/en/high-density-high-waisted-skirt—26%22/455233.html?dwvar_455233_color=Black&cgid=women-clothing-skirts#start=1
https://www.rw-co.com/en/lilac-high-waist-pencil-skirt/455250.html?dwvar_455250_color=Lilas&cgid=women-clothing-skirts
https://bananarepublic.gapcanada.ca/browse/product.do?pid=267560013&vid=1&tid=bcpl000019&kwid=1&ap=7&gclid=Cj0KCQjwhLKUBhDiARIsAMaTLnEvrpKAwsX6mzBiCPDz_szPjMYYmK6U4mjk1GFcluf5VqrXdb8rgNoaAtOWEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds#pdp-page-content
https://www.tristanstyle.com/en/women/clothing/skirts/high-waist-pencil-skirt/23/fv080c1467z/
Anon
Pencil skirts are outdated. Try dresses instead.
Anonymous Canadian
What about Joseph Ribkoff? 1er Avenue has one or two pencil skirts, or you can try Modella or Decabana….
Anne Mulaire FTW
I just bought the Penelope skirt from Anne Mulaire — an Indigenous designer whose clothes are sewn in Manitoba from fabrics produced in Ontario. https://annemulaire.ca/products/penelope-midi-bamboo-skirt
Weight Loss in Kids?
Posting here instead of the mom’s board since it skews toward people with younger kids. My youngest daughter – 9 years old – has always been on the upper end of the weight charts, but up until this point, her pediatrician has generally said to just continue focusing on healthy family meals and activities and not to worry about it for a few years. Well, that’s changed. At her last visit a week ago her pediatrician spoke with me via phone afterward (so she wasn’t here for this) and said we really need to focus on getting her weight in check – he’s worried about it causing health issues at this point and he’s started to see some of her tests creeping toward problematic.
He’s setting us up with a nutritionist, but for those of you’ve who’ve been through this with a child, or as a child yourself, do you have advice for how to navigate this in a way that is the least traumatizing and maintains a healthy relationship with food for DD? My husband and I have generally never had issues with weight and our oldest daughter is a sports nut, so also hasn’t experienced this.
Our youngest is an introvert who’d rather read than play outside, with a vicious sweet tooth. We’ve tried not keeping things in the house, but I think the preference for sugar, plus her ability to eat whatever she wants outside of the house (it’s unclear what she’s getting at school with the money in her lunch account) and lack of activity is catching up. The pediatrician’s goal is less weight loss and more maintaining her current weight as she gets taller, which will have the same effect.
Anon
Stop giving lunch money and pack lunches instead.
Weight Loss in Kids? (OP)
How do we do this without her feeling like we’re shaming her food choices? Maybe I’m overthinking this, but we’re not going to suddenly stop giving her older sister money on her account, who has expressed a STRONG preference for food at school. The same account can be used for food after school, which given she’s in sports 4-5 days a week is pretty needed.
Anonymous
You absolutely could stop for her older sister too.
Anon
I’ll disagree. If I was that older sibling, I would not view this well. I’d see it as being “punished” because the younger one is fat. Cruel, but true.
Anonymous
That is cruel. It’s not the older child’s fault her younger sister is overweight.
Anonymous
It’s not cruel to pack both of your kids lunch and a snack starting in a new school year.
Anon
Right. Just because older kid is burning off the calories now doesn’t mean she shouldn’t learn healthy eating too.
Anonymous
The older one is already eating healthy food at school. I would certainly rather have a nice hot stir fry than a packed lunch.
Amy
Is it possible for her to use the school money for healthy options, or is it 100% sugar/junk options? Either way, I think it’s reasonable to say, “We’re going to recommit to healthy eating as a family, which means you girls are going take healthy food to school for lunch.” Keep the money account for big sis, and if it comes up as unfair, clarify that it’s so she can get after school snacks during sports.
Anonme
Our school account has 2 funds – the meal fund (that lets you buy breakfast and lunch) and the general account – which can be used for meals but also for snacks like brownies and ice cream. Does you school allow for this separation?
Weight Loss in Kids? (OP)
Nope – it’s a free for all. Way too much choice – done under the original idea to accommodate allergies and dietary restrictions, so no, it’s not changing.
It’s a K-12 school, and they all each in the same cafeteria, so other than K which has a set lunch, it’s all just suggestions. Older DD is just not big on food in general, and tends to pick whatever stir fry type thing is on offer that day (so gets a meat, veggie and carb without a lot of effort), while younger DD tends to go straight for the more carb and sugar loaded item she can get from what I can tell. A girl after my own heart, but definitely problematic at this point.
anon
If she is motivated by money, my parents gave us our lunch money in cash and the choice to pack our lunch and keep the money or spend it at school. Let’s just say, they learned I would eat peanut butter every day and liked buying clothes. Throwing it out there if it gives you a backhanded option to get her to pack her lunch.
Anonymous
Review the options with them each week and have them discuss what they are picking. Allowed purchased lunches 2/5 days and pack lunches on other days. 2 school lunches keeps some freedom and provides opportunity to make responsible choices.
Anon
OP, I can tell you that my normal-weight son would have an incredibly hard time with a free-for-all, buy-anything-you-want meal option. He either packs his lunch or eats the prepared lunch at school (which is usually not something he likes, so ends up taking his own lunch the majority of the time). We don’t keep junk at home so his ability to eat cookies, chips, candy, etc. is limited. I honestly don’t know how you address the problem while allowing unfettered access to junk food via the school account. At your daughter’s age, kids honestly do not have the ability to think into the future far enough to associate immediate actions with later consequences, and they also lack impulse control. I’d turn off the account for her and just say it’s something you’ll reconsider when she’s older.
Anonymous
It will be HER lunch – let her make the selections, which makes it positive. Find healthy food that is a substitute for what she craves. She might save time especially if her friends bring their own lunches. The important element here is to Let Her Lead – if you overmanage, that will backfire.
Also, my young teen has noticed that they would like to be more fit, so we are exploring the Zombies RUN app, which is a fun way to get up to a 5k. Have any of her group tried Girls on the Run?
Anonymous
Omg don’t. Do not traumatize her with a nutritionist.
It is nearly the end of the school year. Make a summer of active family plans. Start packing everyone’s lunch in the fall.
Anon
I assume the nine year old child is not going to be the one actively working with the nutritionist?
Weight Loss in Kids? (OP)
Yeah, this is a meeting for me and my husband, not for her – she’s 9, she’s not cooking for herself unless it’s a sandwich.
Anonymous
Then what do you think would be traumatizing?
Weight Loss in Kids? (OP)
the process of changing her eating and activity patterns to lose weight? like she’s 9, not 2, she’s going to notice something is up if we all of a sudden change the food and strongly encourage more activities.
Anonymous
You don’t all of a sudden just change her food and sign her up for boot camp. You gradually transition. You start packing lunches for the whole family because your other daughter has a preference not a health issue. You figure out what activity she would enjoy- walking around a museum on a weekend? Trips to the pool? Dance class? Girl scouts? Walking around a farmers market to enjoy picking out fun vegetables?
Amy
FWIW, my husband and I are trying to lose 30 pounds each, and our diet for our kids has changed dramatically as we research good eating habits. That includes no more buying processed crappy snacks that we used to have around like peanut butter crackers and pretzels. Instead, we’re telling the kids they can have fruit or veg or whole wheat toast as snacks, or wait until meal times. Point being, if it’s a whole-family effort, she’s not going to feel singled out.
Anonymous
That’s not what the post sounded like to me. If parents are meeting with a nutritionist to learn how to provide their kids with healthy options, great.
Anon
Maybe mom goes to the nutritionist alone? Get the knowledge, pack good lunches, and shop for good body fuel vs sugars and bad carbs.
Anon in PHL
+1. My weight problems began around 8/9. My parents had me work with a nutritionist while also (1) continuing to keep candy/cookies/ice cream in the house and (2) ignoring the fact that I turning to food for comfort. I wish they had spent more time talking to me about my feelings and encouraging me to do activities I enjoyed.
Weight Loss in Kids? (OP)
We’re not going to have her meet with the nutritionist, and we don’t keep junk in the house right now, so that won’t be an issue, thankfully.
How would you have preferred if be handled if you had an older sibling who was very active and thus needed more calories (healthy calories, but still) and who was able to continue to have a spending account at school for lunches and snacks? Do you think it would be better to be direct and explain it? I just don’t want her to have a bad relationship with food or feel shamed or like she’s anything other than beautiful and amazing.
Anonymous
I think you should tell both your kids that lunches and snacks are coming from home. Idk why you’re prioritizing older siblings preference over younger siblings health. I also think you need to super holistically think about younger daughters life structure. There are so many ways to get activity that aren’t sports. A picnic in a botanical garden. A historic house tour. A hike to a swimming hole. A pool. A day trip to a museum. A family walk after dinner every night to enjoy the fresh air.
Anonymous
Anon @ 2:56, it’s not fair to punish the older sibling for her younger sister’s health problem. Different kids have different needs. I have a skinny kid whose pediatrician advised us to let her eat school lunch because she likes it but refuses to eat anything packed from home.
Amy
I would do research on this, the interaction of insulin, fat, calories, and energy in the body. Some doctors posit that it’s not as simple as “more exercise burns more calories, so people who are more active can eat more.” Rather, it’s reversed: high insulin levels (from high sugar foods) cause fat creation which causes more hunger and lethargy.
No one should be counting or aware of calories in this situation. Everyone in the family can eat healthy, whole foods that don’t spike insulin. Big sis and little sis can have the exact same diet, so there shouldn’t be any comparison needed. Just because big sis “can” eat junk food (without getting fat), doesn’t mean it’s a good or healthy choice for her either. Put both the kids on a healthier track.
Woof
This is tough. I have two grown sons, and the older one was heavy and then obese, starting at 9 and continuing until he was 20. His younger brother was skinny as a rail and not that interested in food. Despite my best efforts older son ate like a horse, but then, suddenly took an interest in his weight in college and dropped 100 pounds on his own. Back to your daughter: she is the “problem” in that the other family members are slim. I suspect you could skip the nutritionist as most of us on this board know about nutrition, but go and talk so you and your husband can get on the same page. I suggest taking your daughter out to lunch, and discussing her weight. height, and upcoming adolescence with her. In the most loving way you can, figure out with her what she wants going forward: does her size matter to her? does she know that she is headed to being overweight, according to her doctor. What does she think about that, and does she agree or disagree? What does she know about eating and health? Assure her that she is in charge of her own body, and you want to help her if she wants to learn more. Years later my son told me that “it was not your fault, mom, I just loved to eat and didn’t care. Now I care.” So, see if she cares, and what she thinks. You can “stealth” diet her, but she will know and notice. My pediatrician and the nutritionist talked to me about stealth dieting, but it never worked. For example, my son loves orange juice, so I stopped buying it, but it did not help. He had to decide to limit the oj, which he did not do until college. I think you need to make sure she feels empowered, and encourage good habits, and let her decide what to do. Fingers crossed that she does not get bullied or feel cornered. Hugs to you.
Weight Loss in Kids? (OP)
Yeah, that’s my concern. I don’t want this to turn into older sister bullying her younger sister because this situation is affecting her. She’s picky, super active, and will eat school lunches – for me that’s not something I want to change.
I guess part of what I’m trying to figure it out – and would LOVE to hear from anyone who went through this situation as a kid themself – is it better to just address it head on? “DD, we love you and think you’re beautiful, but we talked to your pediatrician and he wants to change your diet a bit to avoid some health issues down the road. We’re going to start packing your lunches to make sure you’re getting all of the nutrients you need. We’re also going to start doing more activities as a family, and we’re going to try to find a sport you like – you need to start doing one sport a season. It can be swimming or whatever you want”.
Given we have two kids with wildly different weight situations, I feel like we have to because we can’t really make these changes as a family. We already don’t keep processed snacks in the house and we already encourage things like whole wheat toast and fruit as snacks.
Anon
I think it’s a huge problem that you can’t give money for a relatively healthy school lunch without letting your kids buy whatever junk they want. This is a larger scale issue, but it could be worth working with the school to encourage healthier options or ways of restricting access to the less healthy options. I don’t have kids, but we didn’t have access to candy or other less healthy stuff at school until high school (where the food situation was pretty bad- I always packed a lunch and snacks, but a lot of kids just had pizza or Little Debby treats, how was that okay???).
Anonymous
You can set a policy requiring physical activity for the whole family. It just happens that your older daughter is already fulfilling that requirement.
Anon
@Amy – that is not true. I’m assuming older daughter is taller and older. That combined with more activity means she needs more food – if they eat the same thing, one of them is going to be losing weight, and I’d bet it’ll wind up being the one that probably shouldn’t lose weight. What you’re talking about is HAES fake science.
AIMS
I would try to keep track of what you are all eating. See if there are things that you can spot as adding to the problem like fruit juice or soda, or snacks you think are healthy that aren’t particularly beneficial, etc. I think a nutritionist may help with this but agree that your kid shouldn’t be involved.
I also think that summer/next year is a good time to transition to packed lunches for everyone as a way of “making more nutritious choices as a family.” If you want to allow older kid to get snacks after school with the same account and don’t want to just pack her some snacks, i think it’s perfectly reasonable to say that this is because she is doing X Y Z which will make her particularly hungry and if your other daughter wants to do similar stuff, she can also do the same. Make this nonjudgmental, but just matter of fact. You put sunscreen on the beach, you need fuel for track.
I’m not sure how much you are talking to your kids about food up to this point or what your own habits are, but I try to talk about food as fuel and energy. So I focus on how things make us feel or what gives us energy, and I try to do it when they are sick, too, or when we are doing activities that require extra hydration or snacks so it’s not just about calories (chicken soup makes us feel better when we are sick, and I’ll mention how cooking it from scratch is better because it’s fresh, etc., or I’ll make salmon and talk about what a great brain food it is – I think this helps them think about food more holistically and also takes the focus off calories).
Aunt Jamesina
Unhealthy food is just as unhealthy for active people as it is for sedentary people.
Anonymous
I think you want the solution that’s basically nothing in our family life changes, except 9 year old stops being such a fatty. And I’m not going to sugar coat that I find it super toxic.
Anonymous
I think it’s wild that you’re reading suggestions of ways to be active that aren’t sports and your take away is “ok so ima tell her she has to do one sport a semester.” Truly.
Anonymous
Aunt Jamesina, the older kid is not using the money to buy unhealthy food. She is buying stir-fry with veggies. It’s only the younger kid eating junk.
Anonymous
Commenters here and on the moms’ page are really anti-thin-person and judgmental of picky kids. They just don’t get what it’s like to have a skinny, picky kid and be desperate to get them to eat anything. OP, I’m not sure if it’s that severe with your older one, but even if it isn’t, leave her entirely out of this. As long as she’s not buying soda and candy all the time, let her have her stir fry and sports snacks.
Amy
@3:11, exactly the vibe I’m getting too. It seems in OP’s opinion nothing can/should be improved about OP’s overall family approach to nutrition or eating since she, DH, and DD1 aren’t overweight. Yet she somehow wants to not single out DD2. Both of those things can’t exist at the same time.
Anonymous
I don’t see what’s wrong with singling out DD2. She is the one who needs to make a change. DD1 is already eating healthy and exercising.
Anon
Please stop over-thinking this. A huge part of reasonable and healthy eating is to eat for your activity level.
The night before my last half marathon, I ordered a big plate of ravioli and a large side of spaghetti. Shoved down some salad with blue cheese dressing and bread, too. Guess what a normal night of eating is like for me? Half that food, if even.
Food is fuel.
Moreover, your younger D should get into something athletic anyway, because it is good for body and mind.
Anonymous
This too. I promise she already knows she’s fat and she already knows sugar is why. I have a sweet tooth because I have anxiety. What is she doing that she loves and how can you help her excel in that?
Anonymous
I really would encourage some thinking in line with what this comment and what one other comment said. For me, I was binging carbs even at a very young age like that because of anxiety and not having a home environment where I could share my feelings easily. It wasn’t malicious, but it was the case. Those habits continue with me even now. If that’s the case for your daughter, it’s not about the food. It’s about the anxiety or depression or whatever and I haven’t seen anything here that addresses that.
Anonymous
I agree with this. Healthier foods but also provide an opportunity to talk. Eat together every day. Our dinner half hour varies between 5:30-6pm to 7:30pm depending on the kids activities but we eat together everyday and each of us says our best thing and our hardest thing for that day.
Anon
TW: EDs, suicide
My weight problems started when I was 7, and were a reaction to sexual abuse I had suffered from a teenage friend of the family who babysat me a few times.
The focus was all on how bad I looked and how hard it was to find clothes that fit me. No one stopped to ask me why I was eating more or what was going on with me. No one asked, in fact, until I ended up intensive therapy at age 15 following inpatient treatment for an eating disorder that had lead to a pretty serious suicide attempt (I slashed my wrists after taking a bunch of Benadryl). My therapist was the only one who asked me when the overeating started and if I could pinpoint what started it. I told her about the abuse and she and I worked together to unpack it. She then (with my permission) told my parents, who immediately insisted that “couldn’t have happened;” my therapist’s advice was “pick a college far from here and go to it so you can get as far as you can from your family.” Some of the best advice I ever got.
Maybe the OP’s daughter is eating because she likes eating and she likes junk food, but it’s worth exploring if there’s something else going on. OP should not assume she knows every single thing that has ever happened to her daughter. My parents made the same assumption; they were wrong.
Man, I really hoped with this new generation of parents things would have gotten better – parents would be more in-tune with the fact that when kids act out, when kids do self-destructive things there’s a reason. But nope, parents are still making it all about them and how their kids’ behavior inconveniences or embarrasses them. What a shame.
Anon
I think the nutritionist could be a positive experience, actually. Find someone who specializes in children and do LOTS of vetting. When I was OP’s daughter’s age, I was overweight. My parents didn’t consult a nutritionist or really give me ANY of the information that I needed to make better choices. Instead they criticized every single thing I put in my mouth and forced me into high-intensity bootcamps for exercise. I turned to Google to figure it out on my own, and ended up steeped in pro-ED information. *Shockingly*, I had a full-blown eating disorder by 11, and still struggle with my weight and ED behaviors now, 20 years later.
If OP treads carefully here, a professional may actually be helpful to teach the information/behaviors that the kiddo is clearly not being taught at home. For parents that have never had a problem with their weight (as OP indicates), it may not be obvious that they need to actually TEACH what they naturally do to stay healthy.
Anonymous
Can you try to focus on high volume eating for the summer? Add veggies to everything. Air popped popcorn for snacks (even with avocado oil and seasoning it’s great for fiber/satiety). DIY popsicles or portion-controlled desserts (mini drumstick cones, yasso, mini klondikes, ice cream cups). make sure she’s hydrated also. fiber one brownies or desserts instead of little debbies.
Some resources I've seen
Captain Awkward, who has written about having a mother that handled this kind of situation very, very badly, has recommended the resources below in posts about parents on their way to fucking up their kid’s or teen’s relationship to their body and food – which is what you want to avoid. (She normally helps people to establish boundaries with parents who handle it badly, and tricks to remember that all bodies are awesome.)
She refers to the “Satter Division of Responsibility” in feeding toddlers through adolescents where:
You are responsible for what, when, and where.
Your child is responsible for how much and whether.
https://www.ellynsatterinstitute.org/how-to-feed/the-division-of-responsibility-in-feeding/#Prevent%20and%20address%20child%20overweight%20and%20obesity
She has also recommended this resource:
https://lindobacon.com/
Anonymous
Satter is BS for picky kids. Don’t impose this on the skinny sister.
Anonymous
It’s mentioned literally nowhere that the skinnier kid is picky.
Anonymous
It is.
DallasAnon
She didn’t say it is the first post but she has said it repeatedly since then
Anne-on
This. My ASD kid would rather starve himself than eat something with a ‘bad’ texture/taste. Feeding therapy was the only thing that worked for us.
Anon
I would say it’s actively dangerous, not just BS. If there’s any kind of sensory issue (which according to our OT, there is with most really picky kids), kids will often starve themselves rather than eat the food they don’t like.
Anonme
Try to find some type of physical activity that she will do regularly. It might be yoga, one of the fitness ‘games’ on the Switch or the Xbox, regular dance party in her room. The goal is not weight loss, just healthy movement. What clicked for our son (also an introvert with some motor skills issues and a vicious sweet tooth) was actually youth cross fit. Everyday was something different so there was no anticipatory dread or complaining (you can’t say you hate doing X when you don’t know what you’re going to be doing) and every exercise for the day is only about 5-10 min, with 5-6 making up the circuit. The groups are small and everyone does their own thing as they rotate through the exercises – so its not a team activity but it is also not purely solitary. But it is also not competitive. The coaches (at our gym) are supportive and encouraging and focus on proper form and taking care of your body – they really met my son where he was at and encouraged him.
Anne-on
I’m also an introvert who much prefers reading to play. I wasn’t very coordinated as a kid (still a klutz frankly) and HATED team sports because I was inevitably the worst player. It came as a shock to me as an adult that I actually enjoy some types of exercise and am good at it because success in sports as a kid only meant you were good at ball based sports and maaaaybe track. I wish my parents had introduced me to lots of different types of physical activity that didn’t require being on a team – hikes, walks around the neighborhood, yoga, different types of dance, pilates, rowing/canoeing, bike riding, rock climbing, martial arts, skiing, etc. My 10-yr old is also much more of an inside kid but we’ve talked about how moving your body is important for lots of reasons other than weight (he’s underweight, so that’s not our purpose at all). We talk about how exercise is good for your mood, your long term health, allows you to age with fewer aches/pain, etc. Can you help her identify some exercise she likes (or doesn’t hate) and go from there?
Anon
Yes, this. I have terrible depth perception and am awful at all ball sports so I thought I hated sports. But I ended up being a three sports a year varsity athlete in high school once I discovered sports that didn’t involve balls. Think track, cross country, swimming, etc. I’m still active in outdoorsy things as an adult and I’m so glad that I figured out that there was more to being active than things like soccer and tennis.
Anonymous
This. My kids hate team sports – they have never done soccer, baseball, basketball or volleyball. They prefer skiing, skating, hiking, yoga, running, swimming and biking. A mix of weekly lessons to increase skill and family activities on the weekend.
Anny Nonny
As an introvert, one thing that got me to do exercise was to combine it with something I like. She likes reading. What do you think about treadmill walks while reading? Outdoor walks while listening to an audiobook (like, on headphones?) I know that sounds very “middle-aged” but, whatever, if that’s her thing, right?
I also have a sweet tooth, and it is also a problem for me. Can you add in sweets that are healthy in your family diet? More fruit, baked fruit desserts, yogurt with fresh fruit? Lower sugar/ high fiber cookies (like oatmeal cookies with applesauce, stuff like that?) That might make satisfy some of the sweet tooth, while also making dessert or sweets seem to be less “forbidden.” Can you reduce calories in other meals to save “room for dessert”?
I found for me, there was no option to get rid of sweets. You cannot live in this world without constantly being tempted by sweets. So, you have to know, “I have something I can enjoy that is a better choice.”
Another thing is to investigate her happiness and what she’s excited about. Book camp, theater camp, comic book club, whatever. Really spend this summer trying to find some things she LOVES to do. It might not result in any weight loss. But, it might also reveal that some of her eating is to boost her dopamine/seratonin and make up for connection in a family where she realizes she’s the odd one out.
Anonymous
+1 for your last paragraph!
Weight Loss in Kids? (OP)
Thanks for your last paragraph – that’s a good suggestion. She’s an amazing kid, but her interests definitely diverge from the rest of the family’s, which became a lot more obvious over the last year or so as she gets older. I never want her to feel left out or like she’s not included – that might be why I’m so worried about this – I just don’t want to further “other” her.
Anonymous
Look at the way you’re phrasing this – you are at some level already othering her – because you have described this as she is left out. But you could also have described this as we are not as good at engaging with her interests because they are different to mine, and we need to work on joining her.
Anon
She is speaking on an anonymous board where she can say what she feels. I feel like a lot of posters here were the fat kid growing up and are taking this too personally. She said she worries about othering her – that’s good enough to me – she’s worried about it and trying to fix it.
Anonymous
Exactly exactly exactlyyyyyy a million times this
Anon at 3:38
I agree that people are taking this personally, but I think that maybe that is a very important thing for the OP to see. She genuinely wants to fix it and genuinely wants to do it in the best way possible for the health and well-being of her daughter. In that situation I think personal accounts from people who can tell how it feels when it goes wrong, and what went wrong, is a helpful way to engage.
Anonymous
Please listen to this, and what Anonymous at 3:11 said. Believe me, she knows she doesn’t fit in in the family already, and sometimes people, when they feel negative emotions they can’t verbalize, like being the outsider, turn to other things for comfort, like food. She knows she is overweight, don’t worry about that.
Anonymous
Have some links in mod, but – don’t “mold her” to be more like her sister, and push sporty activities. Find out what she’d like to do, and might be exciting for her, and do stuff together like a family. And let her read! It’s awesome to be a nine year old voracious reader, engage and find out what stories engage her the most.
You might have more luck spending the day at a museum than at a sports field, or maybe a science fair or art class. She could be a born gamer, or sushi chef, or a supreme court judge. And maybe she might secretly think that roller derby looks super cool and like to try. Don’t think that sports is the way to go, though – having fun, enjoying herself, being seen and validated – all those things are worth more than any physical activity you’d drag her into.
Anonymous
There needs to be a family requirement that every child has an organized sport or physical activity that they participate in at least 3x per week. Your older one already does school sports so she’s covered. The younger one needs to pick something that she enjoys. At age 9 she is still young enough to sign up for short seasons of YMCA rec sports. Cross country, swimming, and other non-ball sports might appeal to her. Rock climbing, martial arts, and dance are also great. Summer is the perfect opportunity to explore a range of activities through one-week day camps to find her favorite.
My kids are all required to have one artistic activity and one physical activity at all times. The older ones can do art, music, and sports through school if they choose.
Weight Loss in Kids? (OP)
I like this phrasing – everyone has to participate in an activity 3x a week. I’d love for her to pick up some of those activities – that’s a great suggestion.
Anonymous
Of course you do. Because it’s not convenient for you to parent the child you have. Walking to a library is an activity. Let me guess, nights and weekends are busy with your favorite child’s sports?
Anon
Yikes!
Weight Loss in Kids? (OP)
What the hell? I’m sorry, I’m not taking my other daughter out of activities she enjoys because my other child has a health issue.
Aunt Jamesina
You really don’t have magical insight into OP’s family dynamics to know this. This is unhelpful.
Anonymous
I mean. She asked those of
Us with experience how to do better. Is ignoring all that advice. And proposing mandatory sports.
Weight Loss in Kids? (OP)
Someone above literally proposed 3x a week physical activity. Clearly there’s a lot of disagreement here and the only thing I’ve taken away from this conversation is that I won’t be asking this board for advice on anything weight related again – everyone is projecting their own experiences onto this situation (from ignoring my point in the initial post that we don’t keep junk in the house to everything else).
Anonymous
All humans need to exercise! Mandatory ball sports aren’t a good idea, but the kid needs to pick something she enjoys or will at least tolerate. And since she is not enthusiastic about exercise, it needs to be an organized activity where a coach or instructor leads the activity and ensures that everyone is participating fully and not sitting around on the sidelines. You can’t just rely on a sedentary kid to motivate herself to “walk to the library.”
I know firsthand. I have a child who detests nearly all forms of exercise, cannot catch or throw or hit a ball, and whines bitterly when asked to walk the dog half a mile. But she does enjoy being upside down and flying through the air, so for nine years she chose to spend up to 14 hours a week of her life working her tail off at gymnastics practice. When she got to high school and could no longer handle the hours, she fell in love with rock climbing and happily hits the weight room with her team. Yet this same child will not exert herself to do a single pull-up outside of an organized practice.
Anonymous
OP, a little comment on your frustration that “everyone is projecting their own experiences onto this situation”. Yes, that is what is happening. And in this particular case, maybe, what you’re having the opportunity and privilege to see is how your daughter might feel if you don’t get it right. That maybe, twenty years from now the resentment, or a passion to shout “stop it with the sports!” or similar is what your daughter will have learnt. Maybe the people warning you are the people that do have a relevant and similar experience as her, and they are speaking out because they are on your team, and on your daughter’s team.
Trish
Anon at 3:15. Please get some therapy to deal with your unresolved anger. There is no reason to attack the OP who is trying to help her daughter.
Anon
“My kids are all required to have one artistic activity and one physical activity at all times.”
Please do report back when your kids are in their early 20s to let us know how your rigid, inflexible parenting worked out. I can’t wait to hear.
Anon
Parents made us play sports and play instruments and we all lived to tell the tale. Most people I know were raised like this and were all fine.
I swear some people here are really weirdly anti sports. I think most, if not all, kids would benefit immensely from playing organized sports
NYCer
+1. And we are all happy, healthy, well adjusted adults. It is really not that weird or mean to require some structure in your kids’ lives through sports and artistic activities.
Anonymous
ding ding ding this you sound like a peach
Anon
I was required to play sports. That wasn’t a bad thing, especially since my father DGAF when I stopped playing his sport – the one that he played D1 for – and joined a completely different sport.
The control in all other areas was the problem.
IMHO, especially at younger ages, a requirement to play a sport is a good thing. They are usually like 2-3 days a week, low key, and give kids an opportunity to figure out what they enjoy and do not enjoy.
Yikes
Requiring breadth of experience does NOT equal rigidity. My parents required all of us to participate in 1 athletic, 1 creative, and 1 academic extracurricular until high school, when we focused in on just 1-2 activities we really loved. We were allowed to pick anything we wanted and swap/drop activities at will. We tried a huge variety of activities and were given the space to find our “thing.” IMO that’s MUCH less rigid than my peers’ parents who forced their kid into a single activity that they burnt out on. We’re all in our 30s, well rounded, well-adjusted, and each still voluntarily involved in at least one thing we tried as kids. There are multiple ways to approach this.
Anon
Yeah this really seems like a bit much. Lots of studies out there that unstructured play time alone and with peers is way more important for kid’s social and emotional development than formal activities. Personally, my parenting philosophy is pretty much the opposite. My kids don’t do any activities unless they’re asking to do them. We suggest things we think they might like (and I do like the idea of balancing or alternating something more physical with something more artistic), but they’re free to say no to anything or everything. I think 99% of American kids are way overscheduled.
Anonymous
this seems incredibly “othering” to me. we’re going to force you to do crap you don’t like because you’re fat. my heavy kid does tae kwon do and piano and guess what he’s still heavy.
Anonymous
Yeah, but he’s probably healthier than he would be if he didn’t do tae kwon do.
Anon
Is it possible your younger daughter is maturing earlier than your older daughter? Hitting puberty early can be part of this experience. I think how you handle it would be different if you had a boy and a girl but you have two different girls, and I’d be doing everything to not turn this into a toxic body shaming environment between the two of them. In addition to simply evaluating the caloric total, as it seems you have in mind, I’d be thinking about balancing blood sugar (so eating protein with every meal/snack).
It sounds like you’re sensitive to how your younger daughter feels but be aware that this is super tricky to navigate. You want to keep things fair for both girls. It won’t hurt your older daughter to bring food from home.
Weight Loss in Kids? (OP)
That’s a good question. I’m trying to be sensitive to both of their feelings. I also know that older daughter can be a bit callous at times, and is 13, so definitely old enough to call out any changes. She would absolutely say to younger daughter “mom is making me bring lunch because you’re fat”. Siblings can be mean, and 13 is a horrible age, and no, you cannot police a 13 year old’s every word to her sister. I’m trying to not create a toxic situation between them while fixing something else.
Younger DD is sensitive and sweet and would totally pick up on even the littlest comments from older DD.
Anonymous
I know you’re getting your feelings hurt and I’m sorry. But I think you need to maybe pause and contemplate all this. You’ve got an athletic child who is demanding and bullying and a sensitive younger child who you don’t seem to get in the same way. I don’t think it’s about food. I don’t think it’s about mandatory sports. I think it’s about how to bring more joy to younger daughter.
Anonymous
This. I’d be overeating too if my older sibling was allowed to treat me like that.
Anonymous
This^
Anonymous
You can’t police every word but you can make it high consequence when you do it. One of my kids has food allergies and I have had to shut down mean comments on occasion after the initial diagnosis. Hard, fast and memorable. They don’t get a warning that it isn’t allowed to be mean about food because they know the baseline family rule is be kind to your siblings. Doesn’t take long for them to remember losing ipad for a week and writing a page long essay to me on why on it is not allowed to be mean to your sister about food. They made a second comment a month later and second offence meant that they also lost access to their beloved food that their sibling was allergic to for a month (in addition to the consequences for first offence). No further offences to date.
Anonymous
OMG, that is terrible. Why should the kid without the health issue be made to suffer because of the other kid’s needs? Every kid needs to be parented as an individual. You can’t run a family to the lowest common denominator.
Weight Loss in Kids? (OP)
I appreciate that, but that would require I know about it. They’re 9 and 13 – I’m not with them every second of the day and younger DD is a very “keep the peace” type person – she’s not likely going to tell me about it, but knowing my kids like I do, I know that kind of thing would likely get said. 13 year old DD is going through a mean phase, and we correct what we see, but we can’t correct what we don’t see.
Anonymous
What part is terrible? That if you mock your sibling for not being able to eat a certain food, after you have been previously disciplined for that behavior, then yes you get to try what it is like to not have that food for a month.
Sorry , I don’t know how you parent but in my house you don’t mock other people for their life threatening disabilities.
Anonymous
I’m not suggesting anything other than correcting what you see because that’s all you can do. But the older kid is old enough to know better.
Anonymous
3:59, perhaps your older child is mocking their sibling out of resentment for being denied normal things. We all have weaknesses, food allergies or otherwise. Those weaknesses are our own burdens to bear. We don’t get to impose them on others.
A kid in my elementary school class and Girl Scout troop had a dairy allergy back in the 1980s before food allergies and “intolerances” were trendy. She said no to eating other people’s food and brought her own soy milk to campouts. The kids all understood why and did not make a big deal out of it or make fun of her because they were not being asked to give anything up. No parent or teacher would even have thought of making the whole class or troop dairy-free. Contrast this with the performative virtue of today’s food allergy parents, like the peanut mom from my daughter’s class who took over every class party and once ostentatiously discarded the packaged food my daughter brought in that was carefully selected to meet all of peanut mom’s exacting requirements. Other kids have feelings and needs too.
DallasAnon
peanut allergies are often anaphylactic. Are you sure hers wasn’t? Or do you think your child’s right to eat Reece’s is greater than that child’s right to life?
Anon
Don’t worry about your 9 yo, worry about your 13 yo. Woof. I’d be much more concerned with cruelty than a couple extra pounds, good grief.
Anon
Thank you, this is the only sane answer
Anon
+10000. This dynamic is undoubtedly not helping the younger girl feel good about getting healthier.
Anon
Yeah this dynamic is really…yikes. I know you can’t control what you don’t see, but I feel like you need to crack down harder on what you do see. These comments are completely unacceptable.
Anonymous
That’s called having a sister.
Curious
Seriously, right? Has no one met tween/ teenage girls?
Anonymous
Forcing the older daughter to bring food from home is unfair to her. She is making healthy choices already.
Anon
I agree with this. There is no reason to treat both kids the same; they are not the same. It is not “stigmatizing” the younger sister to have her eat differently than the older sibling. It’s all in how it’s framed. If OP frames it as “DD2, you are too fat and you don’t have any self-control so you have to take your lunch to school while DD1 gets to keep her school account,” guess what? That’s going to have some negative consequences. If it’s framed as, “DD1, we feel like maybe taking your lunch is a better choice for you until you get a little older, and we’re going to work together on making healthier choices and revisit you having a lunch account again next year” that’s a completely different message. Kids in the same family are not the same and it’s fine to have individualized solutions for each child’s individual situation. You wouldn’t make one child take a medication they didn’t need just because their sibling needed medication for their heart, or something.
Nudibranch
This was my life experience. Early puberty, much smaller and later developing siblings, a very naturally thin mother and undiagnosed hypothyroidism made my pre-teen and early teen years hellish.
Please don’t treat your daughter like she’s a problem and her weight is a problem. She will know it, you’ll mess up her head, and she’ll have an unhealthy relationship with her body for years. Be careful, be kind, try not to show favoritism, and love her and support her for who she is–no matter her shape.
Nudibranch
This was in response to Anon at 3:11. Don’t know why it posted way down below.
Anon 2.0
First, I would get a 2nd opinion, particularly if the current doctor is using BMI as a basis for any of this suggestions. (Not going to elaborate here, but there is lots of info available on the issues surrounding BMI.) To be frank, if you start talking to a 9 year old about weight, I cannot imagine a way that is NOT going to be traumatic. I’d focus on healthy dinners and family activity with zero mention of weight. Get her involved in meal planning as well. Also, if her peers buy lunch and you force her to bring a home lunch, I’d imagine this is going to shameful and something she feels embarrassed of. 9 is just SO young to be worried about weight.
Weight Loss in Kids? (OP)
Yeah, this is good advice. I do wonder if this is too early – if it’s still an issue as she gets older I feel like we could have more nuanced conversations around health and weight and the importance of activity. Older DD will also be older and less involved in the home life in 3 years when she’s driving and in high school.
NYNY
(TW: disordered eating) Echoing this. Your daughter is very young, and may grow out of this phase with no intervention. But making changes that feel punitive to her (or to her sister) can have terrible long-term effects.
I was big at 9. I’m only 5’4″ as an adult, but I was 5’2″ at that age and weighed over 100 lbs. And I started my period then, too. I was introverted, but also obsessed with dance, and my ballet teacher started weight-shaming me early, saying I should lose 5-10 pounds. By the time I was 11 or 12, I had a full-blown eating disorder that I dealt with through my teens and 20s, and that can still rear up at times of stress.
You need to tread very lightly here, and maybe push back with the pediatrician. It may be valuable to meet with the nutritionist, but only take advice if it addresses how to make small changes as a family that can help your youngest daughter without anyone else feeling deprived or punished. And whatever happens next, please make sure that you and your husband are giving her the love, support, and attention that she needs.
I’m sending vibes of support to you and your girl. It’s hard, but the fact that you’re seeking advice means that you want to do the right thing. You’ll handle this and come out the other end. <3
Weight Loss in Kids? (OP)
This is helpful to hear. I feel like it’s so hard at these ages to have a conversation that doesn’t go horribly awry. If it’s still a major issue in 4-5 years, we’ll all have more maturity and ability to cope with harder conversations. We might start with implementing a 3x a week activity rule (which would be good for me too!) and not really do much else and just see how it goes.
DallasAnon
That activity could be something as small as a 30 minute walk with both daughters after dinner to discuss how their days have been. Do y’all have a dog to walk?
Weight Loss in Kids? (OP)
We do, and we’ve talked about getting another one at some point, so this might be good timing….
Look we have to walk the new pup! My husband would be thrilled – he’s been pushing for a second dog for a while…
Anon
Appreciate this perspective. Adding on something specific you could dig into more with the pediatrician: Is the goal to actually *lose* weight, or have your daughter maintain her current weight as she grows? I haven’t seen this pointed out yet in the thread (apologies if I missed it), but unless the weight issue is very serious, typically the focus with kids is to build healthy habits and stop the weight gain so that they can naturally grow into their weight as they get taller. So if your daughter is 100 lbs at 4’11” today, maybe she’ll grow to 5’2″ in the next couple of years but maintain that 100 lbs weight. Might be mentally healthier to focus on naturally leaning out without any dramatic intervention.
Anon
OP said in her initial post the goal was to stop the gaining so child could grow into the weight.
Anonymous
swamped with work today – repost on the moms site tomorrow for more comments – there are a few of us over there with older elementary age kids. I have a daughter in the same age
Anon
Does she have any activities currently? I would sign her up for art classes, writing, scouts, whatever she’s interested in. You can help her be more active without forcing her to play sports.
Does your older daughter gravitate towards healthy foods? If she’s eating junk it’s going to catch up to her eventually so I would frame this as making sure everyone in the family learns how to eat healthier.
Weight Loss in Kids? (OP)
She just doesn’t eat a lot period and what she eats is pretty healthy – she’s just not a big “food” person. I think she’ll be the type to get older and go to a restaurant and order the most boring thing on the menu – she just doesn’t care.
Anonymous
What does your youngest do after school?
Weight Loss in Kids? (OP)
Reads – which is her choice and not something I want to discourage. I don’t want her to think sports are somehow more valuable than reading because we push them. I’m leaning toward pushing weekend activities – maybe she and I could take a rock climbing class together (idk – can 9 year olds rock climb? I’ve never done it – will have to research. or something similar that we can do together so she doesn’t feel othered) on Saturday or something like that as part of a new 3x/week activity rule.
Anonymous
Ok so yes they can rock climb and that’s a great idea! But what about art class? Or Girl Scouts? Or acting lessons? Or a kids book club?
You can’t just make a rule. You need to create a different environment.
Anon
Yeah I think after school activities like art or theater would really help
CMS
At our local rock climbing gym, you can start classes at 5. They call them Mini Monkeys! My son loves it as an alternative to team sports, and its a great workout.
Anon
If she “just doesn’t care” about food, then why would she care if her food came from home vs. the cafeteria?
Weight Loss in Kids? (OP)
Because she likes the cafeteria food? And she definitely doesn’t care to the point where she just wouldn’t eat what was packed if she doesn’t like it…
She’s just not big on food period…
I don’t want to create a weight problem in the other direction by fixing one.
Anonymous
You won’t even be causing one problem by fixing another. If you cut off your older daughter’s access to school lunch, she will stop eating and the younger one will still be overweight.
Anonymous
My 9 year old daughter was overweight too. Part of it was because of the lockdown during the pandemic and doing virtual school for a year. But what we did was focus on getting exercise everyday. I didn’t say this was the plan, just said ok time for a walk or whatever. (We also got a puppy and that helped a lot because puppy needed to be walked and she liked walking him.) We got really into hiking, stand-up paddleboarding, and geocaching as a family and that helps with movement. I let her eat whatever she wants at school, but make sure our meals at home are very healthy. She is the same weight now at 11 but grew a few inches and so it back at a healthy weight. She also just started her period and from what I have seen with other girls, some tend to gain weight leading up to it.
Anon
This was our experience too, and exactly how we handled it at that age, and she is now 16 with a healthy weight and a very healthy relationship with her body. I wish someone had done it for me back in the day :(
DallasAnon
Please be careful here. Like way, way, way more careful than you think you need to be. Make one (SMALL) change and then stop for 6 months or a year and then think about making another. Don’t go all in, don’t make 100 changes at once, don’t go big.
I am mid-30s and I am fat. I have been chubby (at least) for as long as I can remember and it damaged my relationship with my mother. For 20 years this has colored my relationship with my mother, to this very day.
Bloedel Babe
You have gotten some great advice, particularly from Anon at 2:58PM. I was your daughter about 30 years ago, I took a book outside to recess every day and by the age of 12 I was a ladies size 10 and wouldn’t go swimming without a large T shirt over my suit. I was afraid of the “jock girls” at school and often bullied by them.
In high school, I started getting into lots of dance and other movement that didn’t require eye-hand coordination. Eventually, I took a couple of classes in weightlifting in college – I forget why I did this but it was HUGE in setting me up for a healthy adult life.
Now I am over 40. I dance, lift weights, bike, etc. I am still painfully shy but I *love* using my body and my partner says that I “clearly missed my calling as an Olympic something” due to my body composition (ha). I have a demanding job but I would “exercise” at least 3 hours a day if I could, with half of that just walking in nature.
There are so many ways to be active, the trick is finding what you enjoy. So do your best to help your daughter find those things, and remember it may take years.
Weight Loss in Kids? (OP)
Thanks for this perspective. I am definitely getting the sense that other than maybe encouraging some activity (gently – maybe focus on something she & I can do together), I should probably let this ride for a few years.
Anon
Yes! Even as an adult focusing on weight loss makes me feel anxious, self-loathing, depressed, etc., while focusing on a new physical activity is fun, exciting, makes me feel proud of myself. The change is slower when you are adding an activity versus removing food, but IMO much more sustainable and mentally healthy.
I was terrible at sports as a kid and ended up quitting all of them because I am uncoordinated and hate being told what to do. Like your kid I was also introverted and liked to read. I have found a ton of joy over the years in more individualistic sports like rock climbing (there are multiple parent-kid climbing partners that regularly climb together at my gym), swimming, surfing, hiking, weight lifting, running, going to a ninja gym or trampoline park, roller blading… not all appropriate for a 9 year old but the key for me is being able to explore these activities on my own without having to listen to a coach.
Anon
You can always park the car and start walking/biking/public transportation for errands. Call it a measure to save gas/money if you must.
Yes, I know the USA is crap for non-car infrastructure, but families with kids do manage to do it if they put their minds to it. I know of several here in my own southern city and I do it myself. Dare to be a bit counterculture in this world of SUVs.
Anon
I have not gone through this but I suggest that you don’t mention weight because it doesn’t matter. Talk about the metrics that the pediatrician is worried about, maybe she can improve those even if the weight doesn’t change. This will also make the conversation more about health and not weight. I
Anon
I was your younger daughter growing up. Never officially unhealthy weight, but I was heavy and my older brother was skinny. I did add height and maintain weight, in 6th grade, and from then on was quite slender but a lot of bad body issues were instilled before that point (think family exercise initiatives, which was clearly only targeted / enforced for me). The corollary situation in our case was that my brother had to be put on a high calorie diet because he was too skinny. It was pretty rough to see signs of that when I was being told the opposite message (this was prior to my growth spurt). For example, we drank tons of milk growing up and had always drank skim until all of a sudden he was being bought whole milk while I was still given skim. He got more leeway on snack foods and desserts than I did. And, ironically given your scenario, he was given lunch money to start buying lunch at school. We had previously always brought, I still had to bring lunch, and it was definitely understood that the bought lunches were “heavier” meals. So based off my experience I would say to just make it as equal as possible and differentiate for your different daughter’s needs in serving size, not allowed behaviors. I would just start that change with summer camp/new school year. If you think your older daughter will be mean about it, would you consider framing this change as being about financial reasons instead of health ones? We were always told the reason our default was to bring lunch was because it was less expensive and we never questioned that.
Mouse
So, I was this kid growing up. May parents and eventually my brother were lean young people, I never was. I started puberty early, and was a chubby 8/9/10/11 year old, got my period at 11. I was always on the high end of weight charts. Had interests – music, theater, etc. – but was never a huge sports person.
So, my two cents – there was lot of emphasis on getting me into sports/exercise, even though I don’t think it was said directly to me, because I was bigger. This just made me more self-conscious, because I knew my body wasn’t “right” in a athletic environment. To this day I have difficultly not being self conscious with exercise – it’s a weird block for me. I say this not to dissuade encouraging exercise, but to help you understand that if you have issues with her body, she WILL know. Also, she will already know if she doesn’t fit a standard. The world will tell her, her peers will let her know one way or another, etc. It would be such a gift to help her by not making her feel like her body is wrong, but unique and special because it’s hers and no one elses.
As for food, I was always a healthy eater and was still “overweight,” but looking back I was fine, just had a more mature and fuller body than the the white girl (i.e. no butt) ideal at the time.
Are her other health markers good? Then I would be wary of a doc placing too much emphasis on weight so early.
My suggestions: eat healthfully as a family NOT for weight control, but for health. Help her discover new foods she likes – maybe involve her in cooking? Ask her what things she would like to do outside of her current hobbies and help her get involved with them, especially if they are somewhat physical/involve her body – dance, theater, pickleball, whatever – because this will help her gain confidence in what her body can DO early vs what it look like. But allow her to like what she likes. I wish I had that. (I was never the sporty kid even though the rest of my family was, and I dislike that feeling.) Don’t criticize your own body size or other’s body size in front of her. She will notice, as will your other kids. Don’t compare your kids either.
If it is a struggle for her, be understanding. I was very aware at that age of my body’s deficiencies, even though I was perfectly healthy, and I stayed away from many opportunities because of that.
Kudos for you for going about this thoughtfully!
anon
Sorry you’re getting some of the hate you are here. There are some resident pot stirrers that need to go back under their bridges. I’m a mom to a little (4 yo girl) and I dread these types of situations. I trust you’re doing your best.
Consider working on establishing healthy non-food habits – family walks, tennis, doing something fun at the beach. Maybe get excited about a new recipe – can daughter pick out something fun to cook with you out of a few choices? Maybe even do a cooking class with her for some mom time (hard to sell that at 13, I know…)?
FWIW, I was your daughter with two thin sisters. Mom tried her best, but it messed me up for life. I picked up on every subtle comment, differently packed lunch box, comments about my clothes fitting well/not well, etc. Removing all “junk” and making it basically fully off limits in her presence (at home or not) just made me binge on it when I was away from her. Turns out I had insulin resistant PCOS and no amount of “mom intervention” would have helped me without that diagnosis and the knowledge that I just process some nutrients differently. That knowledge hasn’t made it any easier on any level at all, but it has given me some room for grace. That in mind, wonder if there is anything else medically. Did your pedi literally just look at her growths and draw a conclusion? Has there been basic blood work?
Weight Loss in Kids? (OP)
They have done blood work – that’s actually what prompted this conversation. She’s always been toward the top of the weight charts, so he suggested blood worth this time. We also have a family history of diabetes which escalates the concern. I’m trying to balance potential physical health complications with potential mental health complications and this conversation has really just shown me how hard that is – there’s no one good answer. I’m likely going to talk to the pediatrician again and see if he REALLY thinks it needs to be addressed now, or we can just ignore it for another few years and see if it sorts itself out. If not, I think the older she is, the easier it is to have these conversations straightforwardly and with important nuance.
Anonymous
I would look into a hospital or health group like the Stanford Pediatric Weight program—They are experts at this and are more likely to be successful than the generic advice from commenters here or a pediatrician who doesn’t routinely treat these issues.
Anonymous
Literally 100 comments of people trying very hard to help.
Anon
No, not all the commenters are “trying hard to help.” We have our resident fat-shamers in the conversation who obviously feel this is their opportunity to say the horrible things anonymously that they can’t say with their name attached. And a number of people who feel they are the World’s Expert on Parenting making pronouncements that may or may not work for the OP’s family as if their opinion is fact.
Anonymous
+1
anon
Hence saying sorry for the “hate” not the support, which she’s clearly also gotten. Sheesh.
Anon
That all have really different opinions. I hope OP takes it all with a grain of salt and picks what she thinks would work best for her own kids.
Vicky Austin
I’m just going to say thank you for treading with caution here, and I see that you are doing your best for your two kids’ wildly contrasting needs. I’ll be thinking of you.
Weight Loss in Kids? (OP)
Thank you! I needed to hear this. I just want them both to be happy and healthy and to feel loved in their own ways.
Anonymous
OMG so much handwringing here. I was this kid. My mother told me I was fat and needed to snack less. I did and I am thin today. Use your words.
Anon
I mean genuinely, did this not give you any issues with food? Like had I been told that I would have developed an ED.
DallasAnon
My mother said something similar when I was about 11 and I developed bulimia and I am still dealing with it 20 years later when I get stressed. I went to the dentist this week and, although I did not put it in my health history, they could see it in my teeth.
Anon
Echoing this. OP is handling this carefully and thoughtfully – I wish my mother had done the same. It might’ve saved me for battling restrictive eating disorders for 20+ years, not to mention the accompanying depression, sui*cide attempts, severe self esteem issues, etc. The weight issue clearly needs to be addressed, but we can’t underestimate how our reactions as parents in these kinds of situations shape our kids’ long term mental health.
Anon @ 6:53
BTW, DallasAnon… from reading your other replies in this thread, I unironically think you might be my sister. Sending hugs either way – sounds like we had similar experiences.
Anonymous
I would ask the pediatrician to investigate the underlying cause of the weight problem, or to refer you to someone who can (endocrinologist?).
And take away her lunch money, get her involved in active pursuits she enjoys, and don’t change anything for her sister.
Dr. The Original ...
What if you make this not at all about weight? For example, what if you and your partner each decide to spend one night a week with each kid? On the nights with elder daughter, maybe the activity is sedentary (or maybe not, up to the kid), and on the nights with younger daughter, the activities are physically active? Maybe you make a plan with the kids that each parent is going to try 30 new things, 15 with each kid, and then they can help you plan what they’ll be. This could include silly things like walking backward a whole mile and fun things like a groupon for a rock climbing class. If you make it that the kids are helping you, they can buy-in without it being focused on them. If you make it about individual time with each kid, you can get to know each better during critical times in their lives.
I think any focus on weight in a society so focused on weight can be tough, but any focus on supporting individuality and supporting time with each parent is inherently beneficial. We can’t control our body shape, so this kid may be built differently than older sister, but we can focus on strength building and movement and trying new things and finding reasons to laugh and that fits every body type, every stage, and every age.
I don’t think any of this needs to be framed like a problem or like kids being treated differently if the family goal is more active moments and the parenting goal is more active moments with each kid. Heck, maybe every night the family walks for 30 mins and each parent alternates who walks with each kid and you walk opposite ways around the block so each kid gets solo time with a parent. Even if you tell them to have one fact or story to share, they can choose if it’s something in their day or a random thing they find online like an animal fact, it’ll keep conversations going while strolling and no one will much notice it’s exercise, it’ll just be a thing the family always does.
If you want to build sisterhood, maybe consider either team activities where it’s parents vs kids or teach them that the way they get more of things they want (screen time or something) is when they are kind to one another or do something to support one another.
As for personal story, I grew up shaped like a pear in a family shaped like twigs. I was always aware of it. No one taught me how to dress for my body type. I didn’t learn that til college friends taught me and I wish I’d learned sooner to embrace myself at every size. I was very much a reader too, many sensitive kids are, and I wished I’d had adults who wanted to talk to me about what I was reading or how I was feeling about life (especially adults who wouldn’t put me down for having big feelings or not having healthy coping skills to process my feelings). My mother also pitted the kids against one another, leaving us with little or no relationships in our adulthoods. Friends who are close with their siblings often tell stories of being on the same team in the house, either in family game nights or in covering for one another with parents as they grew up. I wish I’d had that!
I hope this is helpful and I do hope you see that the reason so many are up in arms is that there are so many poor experiences in life of being a female with a focus on weight which led to some mixed up feelings and self-esteem issues. I don’t think anyone means to attack, just sharing their experiences and fears, even if they are wording it in a defensive way as they recall their own upbringings. <3
Anonymous
The people who are claiming to be against fat-shaming are just weird anti-exercise orthorexics in disguise. Don’t let your older child make her own food choices! Control everything that is available to all children in your family! No sugar for anyone ever, even in moderation! But at the same time, don’t make the overweight one exercise!
It makes absolutely no sense. Both kids need to learn to self-regulate, enjoy all foods in moderation, and engage in fun movement. If the younger one is eating her feelings or has a hormonal disorder that is contributing to the weight problem, that needs to be addressed, but she also needs to move around and both kids need to be able to have a treat now and then. Making certain foods off-limits has been shown to backfire and lead to unhealthy eating habits later in life. My parents restricted my access to food and I rebelled by eating brownies for breakfast my freshman year of college. My daughter is offered dessert a few times a week, and because she knows there will be another chance soon she listens to her hunger cues and often turns it down or just eats a few bites.
Anon
“Making certain foods off-limits has been shown to backfire and lead to unhealthy eating habits later in life. My parents restricted my access to food and I rebelled by eating brownies for breakfast my freshman year of college. My daughter is offered dessert a few times a week, and because she knows there will be another chance soon she listens to her hunger cues and often turns it down or just eats a few bites.”
This has been our philosophy too. I gained a ton of weight when I went to college because my fat-shaming mother had stripped our house of anything with sugar in it, and would shame me for having a piece of cake at a relative’s birthday party. So guess what? When I was out from under her thumb, I ate what I wanted – which by and large was the sugar I had been denied access to. As a result, with my son I resolved that while we wouldn’t keep junk food around, we would have dessert a couple of times a week – ice cream with fruit, or this weekend it was a special piece of cake we picked up at our local farmer’s market. We get small quantities, we eat the dessert, we enjoy it, then it’s gone and we don’t have dessert again for a few days. He has a MUCH healthier relationship with food than I ever did or still do. Nothing is “bad,” nothing is off-limits. There are (per the Sesame Street episodes we watched when he was little) “sometimes foods” and “all the time foods” and he’s pretty good at eating fruit and vegetables of his own accord. We also allowed him to pick the physical activities that he wanted to participate in – cycling, running and soccer were “no,” martial arts and weightlifting are a big “yes” – and because we let him choose what he liked, he’s incredibly invested in those activities and again, participates in them out of his own motivation. The only solution kids will be invested in are the ones they create for themselves.
For anyone who thought they’d have a kid and their child would be a perfect little clone of themselves and would do, say, think, act and look as you had envisioned? WOW I am SO SORRY to burst your bubble, but that was a fantasy. If you are a millennial parent, it’s time to suck it up, buttercup and realize you’re not the center of the universe and Mommy and Daddy aren’t going to make things all better for you. You’re the mommy now. How are you going to parent your child in a way that recognizes their humanity and autonomy and helps them build the foundation for making good choices? How are you going to parent the child you have, which may not be the child you expected to have, in a way that doesn’t turn them into yet another damaged adult with myriad problems the rest of us then have to deal with? Let’s maybe think about how we can break the cycles of neglect, abuse, damage, and bad messages instead of perpetuating them for yet another generation.
Anonymous
I have 3 girls of various heights, weights, and interest in physical activity. We have always framed food as fuel and what you need to power your body. Most active kid with 3 sports rats a LOT more than my indoor cat child. If indoor cat starts to snack a lot or wants to stay home and bake a cake, great! Let’s make sure to get outside a bit after school this week. She’ll bike the neighborhood, help me with yardwork, etc. this summer I’ll allow her to walk or bike to the library which she will happily do!
We instilled a love of walks in all our kids in a young age by walking to somewhere- often times a place with a little treat but sometimes it was just the library.
My indoor cat child also is our chef. We learned about food together and balanced meals. She helps me shop and do food prep.
OP perhaps there is a component of having your kid do something between sit at home and read all day after school and playing ball sports. Can she have friends over? Play around the neighborhood?
Anonymous
Reading doesn’t make kids fat. I read all the time as a kid and was shockingly skinny. I also did sports and dance and pretty much anything else but my homework. There must be something medical going on here. I would pursue that angle instead of punishing your thin, active kid as other posters are suggesting.
Anonymous
After reading these comments, I feel incredibly sorry for the older kid here. I was the older child who was held back and restricted because of the younger sibling’s weaknesses and neuroses. It was stifling. As a result, I am no longer in contact with my sibling or one of my parents. OP, let your older daughter continue to be herself. Get the younger one to an endocrinologist to find out why she is overweight, help her pick a fitness activity she enjoys, and do whatever is medically recommended for her diet without taking away the older one’s autonomy. Of course big sister is going to make snarky comments if you restrict her diet because of her sister.
Anon
Woah to some of the responses here. If you’re still reading, a few thoughts:
– you get messed up by your parents comments when you feel they have contempt for you and/or judge you. I am not getting that vibe from you at all, OP – you sound loving and thoughtful. I think you could be candid w younger daughter and gently tell her what doc said, ask if she wants some support and offer ideas.
– that said, kid is only 9. I’d personally wait a couple of years while slowly introducing healthier meals for all, most of the time, not all of the time. I think time will likely sort this out and doc may be overreacting.
– sisters be sisters. You can’t control older sister, but don’t give her ammo by telling her what’s up with little sister.
You’re kind and thoughtful and your kids are lucky to have you as a mom.
Coach Laura
Late to the party, OP, so I hope you’ll see this. There’s a lot of good info here (and some Yikes!) but I’d suggest the following:
1) Talk to your DD2 about activity, weight and health in the context of food, fuel and active adulthood. Do this slowly over the summer, as organically as possible.
2) Have her pick an activity or two – perhaps one athletic and one creative. Think rock climbing, cycling, tennis or even golf. She may have to try 2-3 before she finds one that she likes. And then one other activity like theatre group, foreign language classes, pottery or photography or painting. If your husband is a runner and you’re into yoga, maybe start with those. Start talking to both kids about college too – my kids wanted to go to “fun” or “good” colleges from a young age (to get away from Mom and Dad, right?) and colleges look for well rounded kids. Don’t make it serious, but just talk about the future when they’re adults.
3) In the month before school, talk to your DD2 about the food at school and the changes you’ll make. I’d suggest telling her that when she’s 13, she can buy lunch but until then she needs to bring food from home, say 3 days a week. Give her some free snack points with which to buy a few treats at school. Hopefully by 13, she can be choosing better or will grow into her appetite. If she’s not ready by 13… well there aren’t many 13yo girls who can’t get the food (or makeup or clothes) that they want no matter what rules mom and dad have.
4) Take your DD1 daughter out for lunch and lay down the rules: We don’t make fun of our siblings and we support them. “If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all.” I had a kid with food allergies – dairy and wheat – and the other kid wasn’t allowed to be mean about it, just like another commenter up thread said. I would even go so far as to tell DD1 that DD2 should be supported and if she can’t do that, then she will have to bring her lunch too. Explain that she has earned the privilege of buying lunch, picking her own food and that is not a right, but a privilege. I do think you may be bending too much to DD1’s needs but I also know how hard being 13 is, especially for girls. Don’t be punitive but just be matter of fact – we support each other. True that you can’t police it when you’re not there but you can set the ground rules.
5) Focus on food as fuel and let DD2 have autonomy in what she packs for lunch, within reason.
6) Be alert to your 9yo’s mental health. I had real troubles at that age with the “queen bees” forming cliques and I had to find a new friend group. My 3 new girlfriends were girls who liked to read and were also musical as I was. Fourth grade was worse for me than age 13-15. If she is isolated or struggling, it will make weight a bigger issue. I was thinking about suicide at age 9 because I didn’t have friends. It got better but it was rough.
Good luck!
Anon GC
Reposting here as I caught the tail end of the morning post (though got one helpful reply already!)
Anyone have any advice on looking for comps for a general counsel position?
I was just offered a general counsel position at a startup in NYC, active for several years, preparing for a series B financing. I’d be the first full time GC there. They asked me to throw out a salary (there will be stock options as well) and numbers seem to be all over the place from what I’ve found so far.
Really appreciate any advice people can offer, I’m very excited about the position!
DallasAnon
I think nonequitypartner on instagram is about to release a GC salary comparison (or maybe he just did)
Anon GC
Thank you! Will take a look.
Anon
I think industry is important info along with current # of employees/growth rate.
Anon GC
Life sciences. Was trying to keep it fairly anon, but you’re right! Roughly 25-30 employees. Thanks.
Anonymous
If you post # of employees and approximate amount raised in the A I can ballpark for you. I have a lot of experience in this area. If you are a member of TechGC they have good data on this.
Also, someone yesterday posted a great list of things to watch out for in working for a startup that you should review. Most importantly, the VC market has dramatically declined within the last two months and you should question whether they will be able to raise a B. I’d ask a ton of questions about what their cash runway looks like and vet their financials and burn rate. I’d also want to know where they are in the B process, what their investor pitch is and what has changed/improved since the A to assess their ability to raise. I worked in employment law for many years before going in house and when cash conservation measures hit the lawyers, accountants and HR teams are the first to go. Not trying to scare you – I myself work at a startup. Just want you to go in with eyes wide open.
Anonymous
This. I am in life sciences and no one is raising money right now – the LS capital markets are off like 50%. I wouldn’t join a life sciences start-up until they closed on the equity (and I am assuming you know the life sciences funding dynamics, that these companies really only have 12-18 months runway at most even in good markets until their next major milestone(s), which, being science, is often negative. Employment at these businesses is often quite tenuous.
Sasha
That list was from me! I know you said you’re excited but I’d would advise you to exercise extreme caution in joining a start up right now, especially one that young. Y Combinator just sent out a letter to the companies they’re invested in that outlines the situation in the funding world right now pretty well. If you g o o g l e “Y Combinator warning” you can find articles with the full text printed. Get familiar with that and use it as the basis for questions to this potential company. Money is going to be really, really tight for start ups for the next 6-12 months and things like Legal are easy targets if they need to get their expenses down.
Anon GC
Thanks both of you – that’s great advice re using that as a basis for questions. Sasha – I’ll search out your post!
Anon GC
Roughly 90M was raised in the A.
That’s all really helpful. I’m at a firm and really want an out and am hoping that in-house experience will transfer, even if it’s relatively short term. But this is all so helpful and really appreciated, I’m fairly familiar with the company but will take a deeper look at the specifics above.
Anon GC
My longer reply was put in moderation, so for now I’ll just try to get that 90 million (maybe spelling it out works better?) was raised in the series A.
(And thanks again, so much, for all of the other advice.)
MJ
Cosign TechGC as being the most helpful benchmark here.
There are also salary surveys by Barker Gilmore, Robert Half and the Lawyer Whisperer Blog.
If there are only 30 employees and you’re still at A round, I would imagine a salary right between 185-250 base (250 being quite high, likely more than the CEO is getting right now) and equity in the 100-150K per year (vesting) range (at today’s equity value). So there will be a ton of equity upside, but less base.
It also matters whether you’ll be a true GC (reporting to the CEO/Board) or more like a Director of Legal who is a placeholder until a more seasoned attorney can come in, in 2+ years. Your equity would be about half if you are scaled more like a D of Legal. Also depends on whether you will truly sit with the Exec team, and scale a Legal team or you’ll be a team of 1, indefinitely. (The latter is exhausting. Trust me. I know.)
MJ
PS–Equity grant should be a 4 year grant, so 400-600K in today’ value, at today’s 409A.
Anon GC
Got it – this is extremely helpful reply. I’d be a true GC and a member of the exec team. Really appreciate it MJ, I’m so worried about throwing out a number that’s incredibly off (in either direction).
Anonymous
I am an associate in a car for four hours with a partner driving the car. I am exhausted from the last few days of depo prep. I usually sleep in warm cars. Is there any gracious way I can tell them I’m falling asleep… while they’re awake and driving? Or if not… how do I manage to stay awake? Ice beverages, keep the AC on high, ask questions???
Anon
Girl you need to stay awake. It is not a good look to fall asleep while they drive. Do whatever you need to do – have some espresso or caffeine, try to engage in conversation… something.
Anonymous
Girl. No. You talk to them.
Amy
Yes, all of the things you mentioned would be good strategies to stay awake. Continually pinch yourself if you have to. Obviously, yes, have a conversation. Talk about the case, so you can both bill the time. Sit in an uncomfortable position to keep yourself away.
joan wilder
I am not a lawyer, and have never set foot anywhere near big law but I do travel for work, and I am a human who gets tired, and want to understand why you can’t fall asleep? Why would that be a problem?
Anon
Eh it’s pretty rude to fall asleep when you have a boss/superior in the car who is driving and can’t sleep. Honestly it drives me crazy when I’m driving somewhere and my husband falls asleep! It sucks to be the only adult in the car awake. If it’s a group then I think it’s less of a big deal for one person to sleep.
Anonymous
It’s incredibly rude.
Anonymous
bad look/weak sauce/hazing. she needs to stay awake.
Anon
Because the driver has to stay awake. On every road trip with friends or work trip I’ve ever taken, the job of the passenger is to navigate and keep the driver awake and able to focus on driving. Only exception is if you’re trading off driving and really need the break to sleep- but that’s how you end up with people falling sleep at the wheel.
Anon
LOL the passengers don’t need to stay awake to keep the driver awake. There are professionalism-related reasons why she probably should, but being awake just because the driver is isn’t one of them.
PolyD
On the other hand if I was driving a colleague for a long distance, I’d ask them to cue up the podcast of my choice and then I could listen and they could listen or sleep or whatever. Enforced chitchat for a long drive sounds like hell.
Anon
Oh podcasts or music or whatever works too- I wasn’t saying she needed to talk. But falling asleep clearly indicates that you think your colleague should be “working” while you take a nap, which just feels really off. If one person is going to do the work of driving, the other should also put in some effort to make the trip more enjoyable, but what that means is very dependent on driver/passenger preferences.
Anon
This is just utter nonsense. Only one person can drive the car at a time! The passenger doesn’t need to be “working” just so the driver doesn’t feel bad. I can’t imagine any sane adult would get mad at their coworker for not doing something active while being a passenger in a car. Totally ludicrous.
Vicky Austin
When it’s your spouse or a family member in the other seat, I get that, but I don’t think you have any such obligation to a coworker. You volunteer to drive somebody somewhere for work, you’ve signed yourself up to be a safe driver whatever it takes. Chug that Coca-Cola and let your colleague catch some zzz’s or don’t offer to drive next time.
Anon
But this isn’t a coworker driving. This is a partner and she’s an associate. It’s unprofessional to nap while actively at work. Even if you disagree that it’s rude or even that the car ride is part of work, enough people think it’s rude that I would definitely not recommend napping given the dynamic between partners and associates. Nap at the hotel or at home. Sorry.
Vicky Austin
Fair enough, although a partner who would be actively upset if I nodded off in a car after some late nights is not a partner I’d want to work for.
Vicky Austin
Same – what? This is not a meeting.
Anon
It kind of is a meeting though. It’s not billable work normally, but whenever I was in a car with a partner we discussed work. On the way to a deposition, a partner will often give an associate advice about taking depos and go over last minute things they want the associate to remember about depos generally or the specific case. I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable for a partner to not want an associate to sleep through that, even if it’s not the first time they’ve prepped for the depo.
Trust me, on the 1-10 scale of Big Law partner crazy, not wanting an associate to sleep on a car ride to a depo is like a 0.2, if that.
Anonymous
You could ask them what they prefer, from a perspective of what is more comfortable for them driving? You tell them that you’re easygoing, do they want music, a podcast, silence, having some time to talk strategy? Some people just like to recharge while driving. Whatever, you’re easygoing, and will happily just snooze if they’d like to be in the zone. And if they say, I’d love to have some time talking about strategy! you down as much coffee, chocolate or gummi bears that will keep you awake to have one-on-one with a partner interested in your views.
Anon
Is anyone else just getting increasingly dejected by the Heard / Depp trial coverage? I feel like every NYTimes article highlights how cut-and-dry the case should be (no libel, a waste of a trial) but the response seems to highlight how much anger people have toward women coming forward. It seems like this is people thinking there’s a necessary correction to #MeToo happening, even though none of the problems the MeToo movement was trying to address have even come close to being solved.
ALSO – maybe this is a hot take, but I don’t think “domestic violence” against men when perpetrated by a woman has anywhere near the same sociopolitical implications as a man hitting a woman. For women, there are centuries of economic and cultural disenfranchisement that make violence in the home fraught and incredibly oppressive. A man hitting a man isn’t as political of an issue; I feel like a woman hitting a man is even LESS of a political issue than a man hitting a man. Am I crazy here? I feel full of rage that people are acting like the most important thing is finally giving male domestic violence survivors their due, and that it’s somehow equivalent to women DV survivors, even when the guy is literally DOUBLE THE AGE OF THE WOMAN and clearly has rage and control issues.
Anonymous
Nope! I don’t think it is newsworthy so I don’t read about it.
Anon
+1 I cannot understand how much attention it’s getting or why anyone cares so much.
Anon
Hitting is wrong. Intimate partner violence is wrong and so damaging. If they were both women would you see this differently?
Anon
Yes, and Depp abused Heard on several occasions, as text messages, witness testimony, and video/audio evidence has made clear.
He was twice her age. He was much more famous. He had much more money. It was not a partnership of equals. He has serious substance abuse-problems and was somehow expecting her to deal with it when she’d never had that experience with serious addiction before – down to handing out his withdrawal medications? It doesn’t make sense to me.
You can make a case that “they were both victims” but one thing is for sure – Depp has no case whatsoever that he was defamed. His career is dead due to his drug/alcohol abuse and primadonna behavior. Don’t understand how the case even made it to court, but I don’t think the outcome is going to be positive for Depp.
Anon
Everything about this case and these people is awful so I refuse to read any news about it. But attitudes like yours are exactly what make domestic violence against men so damaging. The physical dynamics are different, but there’s more stigma and shame. It’s the dismissiveness and not believing that can do as much damage as the actual abuse.
Anonymous
I think men absolutely are victims in many cases. But in this one where he is considerably older, considerably more wealthy, considerably more famous—he is the one with the power. Watch them enter court every morning and guess which one is more likely to be believed.
Anon
I think they’re both horrible, but I think part of the backlash against Heard is because of how blatantly manipulative a lot of her behavior is – saying that no one will believe Johnny, etc. I don’t think either is a good person here, but I went into it thinking Depp was the villain and now I think they both are, with a slight villain advantage to Heard. What I find the most disgusting about her is that she clearly used the MeToo movement to her advantage, which is disgusting to me. TL;DR: they both suck.
anon
I have known two men who were victims of physical abuse from female partners/wives. One of them literally has permanent physical scars. While the “sociopolitical implications” of DV against men may be different than those against women, the individual male survivor of DV is not less harmed just because his abuser had a v*g*na. Women who abuse are just as morally culpable as men who abuse, and should be held to the same standards.
Anonymous
Kat comments are disappearing again. Like I see them
Read them
Then gone
Anonymous
serious question: do you think anyone does not have disordered eating to some degree? my father will eat nothing but a hardboiled egg all day and then 2 cookies at dinner. my MIL only ate watermelon before my wedding. my FIL “gets into” the pantry and will eat anything in sight just before a big family meal. people who don’t eat carbs, only eat fats, don’t eat until 12. many online influencers like nutritionists even just seem orthorexic.
Monday
Health care provider here who asks all patients a lot of questions about their eating. Yes, I believe there are some people who have a totally healthy relationship with food and no disordered behaviors around it (often men). But I agree that huge numbers of people have disordered eating patterns, including many who are selling diet culture regardless of their credentials.
Anne-on
This. At least we’re now aware of diet culture and there are way better treatment options. Frankly the thing I like most about being an adult is the ability to cook for myself/make my own decisions around food. I remember years of picking at dinner before I took over cooking as an older teen and then moved out. Think frozen veggies boiled to mush, flavorless baked chicken breasts with no sauce/marinade, meat cooked till it was grey, very little in the way of spices, etc. My SIL asked me once how I learned to cook so well and I joke that it was self preservation, which is actually kind of the case.
Anonymous
Same here! My mother would feed an entire family of four on a box of Kraft dinner and microwaved frozen corn. Also in the weekly rotation were unseasoned baked chicken breast with instant mashed potatoes and frozen corn, and unseasoned steak cooked to shoe leather with instant mashed potatoes and frozen corn. Onions and peppers never entered our home. The only spice in the pantry was a jar of Italian seasoning. On spaghetti night, my mother would stir a quarter teaspoon of it into a can of plain tomato sauce. I think she had the same jar for my entire childhood. For lunch I was allowed to make myself PBJ.
I learned to cook as an act of rebellion. I remember going absolutely nuts the first time I grocery shopped for myself after I moved out.
Anoneighmys
Are you me? The first time I ever had Chinese food it was lo mein in the food court of the Old Post Office (now the gaudy Trump DC hotel but then a sort of run down mall type place) on a high school trip. The flavor (and MSG!) was a revelation, and vegetables that weren’t cooked to death! Who knew?
I had to learn all my extended family’s traditional dishes from memory and the internet because they weren’t ever made growing up – we were a family of canned veg, no salt and bland protein, cooked to a cider lest someone catch salmonella.
Anon
As someone with a history of disordered eating, I don’t think the above necessarily count in the same way. Usually for something to count as disordered, it has to interfere with your life or stem from some type of mental health issue. I.E., my disordered eating came from anxiety and need for control, and it resulted in not being able to watch someone put a pad of butter in a frying pan without shrilly begging them to use olive oil instead.
The above examples seem a tad bit like “other people eating in a way that I think isn’t right,” but I don’t think it’s fair to label it as disordered (either to them, or to people who actually struggle with disordered eating.) I think it is fair to say that most people do not eat well, do not have nutritional balance, sometimes participate in fad diets, or binge sometimes when they’re hungry. There’s a lot of policing of food in US culture though and not a lot of just letting people be…
Anon
I feel like by your metrics here, any kind of preference for one thing over another would count as “disordered.”
Anon
I don’t have a disordered relationship with food. I eat what I want, when I want. I love food, but stop eating when I’m full and don’t binge eat. I was slim/healthy my whole life, now in perimenopause I am just slightly overweight. I’m trying to move more and eat more healthy foods but am not restricting anything or counting calories. I also think I still look good even at a BMI of 25 something.
Anon
+1 to this part of your comment:
“I don’t have a disordered relationship with food. I eat what I want, when I want. I love food, but stop eating when I’m full and don’t binge eat.”
I also have exercised and worked out my whole life (lifelong dancer, yogi, play some sports but reduced over time) so while my metabolism slowed down a bit as I got older (40s now), as I near perimenopause I am coming close to the “average” BMI middle of the range as opposed to the low end of the range.
I’m fine with food. I have likes and dislikes. I cook. My likes include many “healthy” foods like avocado and cheese and cucumber slices with lemon. I also like fried foods and eat them in moderation. I dislike some desserts but I like some others, I eat those in moderation as well. I don’t diet. Over time, I have worked to improve my diet though by eating fewer processed foods, processed sugar, more greens etc.
So many women (esp American women) seem to have disordered habits but there are others like me and we are not very vocal on this board.
Seafinch
Same. I grew up in a family who all love food and cooking. Eating is my favourite thing but I don’t like sweets or processed food. I have never been model thin, I am an extreme hourglass with a lot of muscle mass but I have always been a healthy weight. I sometime play with different fitness plans and nutrition plans but wouldn’t consider it disordered. My weight has been in a 30 lb range between the ages of 12-44 through four full term pregnancies, six late miscarriages, and 6 years of nursing. Now that I see how many women have a bad relationship with eating, I am so thankful for mother.
Aunt Jamesina
I think most Americans have an unhealthy relationship with food due to our screwed up food culture, but it doesn’t necessarily rise to the point of a disorder for most.
Anoneighmys
Raises hand. I love food. I love how it tastes, growing it, selecting it, preparing it, cooking it, how it shapes and is shaped by cultures. I love the challenge of making high quality meals for little money or working out dinner from a handful of leftovers and random ingredients in the pantry. I’ve had examples of foods or dishes that weren’t particularly well made or from good ingredients, but no food is intrinsically “good” or “bad”. I think Samin Nosrat in Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat comes closest to articulating my relationship with food. I absolutely identify with her joy at being in the kitchen, preparing and talking about food.
I love that food nourishes my body and enables me to do interesting and challenging things.
Vicky Austin
I love this. I also love food and the interesting challenges and histories surrounding it as you have described. And yet I also have thoughts that I need to “earn” ice cream at the end of the day and shame myself for snacking multiple times throughout the day. It’s hard.
PolyD
Same. And while I don’t feel that I need to “earn” things like sweets or cookies, I know I will feel better if I don’t eat a lot of them. So I don’t. I definitely have stretches of time where I eat too many sweets (or have too many cocktails), but they usually end without me beating myself up about it, I just hit a point where I don’t want to eat like that anymore, and at the end of these stretches I WANT to eat better. I joke about putting myself on the Hollywood starlet diet, which to me really just means trying to eat more fruit and vegetables and less bread and sweets.
But I don’t feel that choosing to eat more healthily is being punitive to myself. I am the same way about exercise – I definitely feel better with regular exercise, but I recognize when I need a break.
Not going to lie, pandemic + menopause means I’m heavier than I’d like to be, but I try not to do the negative self-talk and look for positive things (I can feel some muscle in my legs! I kept up with the HIIT workout video today!) about my body.
Anon
“to some degree”? I guess so. In a way that affects one’s life in a material way? Sure, lots and lots of people. Sometimes I overeat. Sometimes I don’t eat due to major stress. Sometimes I feel like I might be gaining weight so I try to eat less. But food is not a major influence of my mood, nor do I stress about it. I have family members with diagnosed eating disorders and I’m certainly aware of the difference.
Anonymous
I typically don’t eat until about 12. Because I feel better that way. Because once my stomach is awake, it yells at me for the rest of the day telling me its hungry. Because I easily eat double the food I need or want if I have breakfast. I don’t consider it disordered because I will eat in the morning if I am hungry, have a big day that needs fueling, or want to do a food based morning event that is worth the trade off.
Anon
Yeah, I hate our resident nutrition experts who yell “eating disorder” whenever anybody mentions IF. That’s just how I eat normally because that’s when I get hungry. I don’t have an eating disorder.
Not really sure what OP’s point is here. Humanity is a big spectrum and with 8 million people you’re going to find a lot of different ways people eat. Trying to pick out certain ones and declare them wrong seems fruitless at best and harmful at worst.
Anonymous
I’ll also note, I don’t think my relationship with food is entirely healthy, but those aspects have nothing whatsoever to do with what times of day I eat.
Anon
Yeah, IF is my natural way of eating too. I don’t think it’s disordered. I have a really healthy, positive relationship with food and love a wide variety of foods. It just feels better to my body to not eat until noon.
Anon
CDC estimates 1/3 of US adults have at least prediabetes and the majority don’t know it. The majority of Celiac disease patients in the US are also undiagnosed according to every study that’s ever made an estimate. So I figure “eating normally” isn’t going to feel right or end up well for an awful lot of people.
Anon
Talk to me about preemptive skin care: I’m 25 and have pretty good skin so I don’t do much to it, other than wear sunscreen every day, moisturize in the morning, and take my makeup off at night. Are there things I should be doing to get ahead of wrinkles and stuff?
Anon
Tretinoin if you want to. Not sure anything else has any proven benefits.
Anon100
drink water and moisturize at night too
Anonymous
Remember your neck, decolletage and hands when you apply and reapply sunscreen. Eat lots of healthy fats. Wear good sunglassesif you don’t want the frown forehead.
More important than wrinkles: build muscle and bone density, so that you can be healthy and mobile at any age.
Anon
+1 to your second paragraph. The older I get the less I care about fine lines and the more I care about being healthy and active as I get older.
Anon
Add a retinol if you want and think about Botox once you get closer to 30. Otherwise, save your $$$ for those things – they’re the ones that actually work.
Anon
Be very diligent about sunscreen and see a derm annually for a full body check. Other than that, moisturize at night. If you want to be extra cautious, wear sunscreen from your face to décolletage and on the back of your hands.
skin
Of course, never smoke. My best friend looks literally 10 years older then me and she has better genetics. It’s all the smoking…
And I might be even more careful with sun exposure if I could go back in time. Always wear sunglasses, and maybe the occasional hat if you are expecting a lot of sun exposure.
Anything you do to treat your face, treat your neck, backs of the hands and decollatage with just as much love and care. THOSE are where your age really show.
Look at your mom/grandmother, and if they have good skin still, ask them what they did/didn’t do. You may be lucky and have good genetics. It sounds like you do from the little you post, as you didn’t mention acne or seem to “need” other products.
JTM
Does anyone have sizing advice on the Allbirds Wool Loungers? I just fell in love with a pair on the ReRun site linked above. I’m usually a 7.5 in bare feet or an 8 with socks. Do they run pretty true to size?
Betsy
I don’t have the loungers but I have the Pipers. I sized up and didn’t regret it. I usually wear an 8.5 and went up to a 9 and they are very comfortable.
Anon
Favorite long weekend destinations in October? This will be me and my elementary age kid traveling over her fall break, which is a four day weekend. We’re in the Chicago area but happy to fly within North America. We went to Vermont last year and it was great but we’d like to go somewhere different this year.
Anon
We did Santa Barbara and Solvang last year mid-October and loved it! Highly recommend!
Anon
Charleston? Savannah? DC? Philly? New Orleans?
Anon
DC? I think it’s perfect for four days + direct flights + tons of kid friendly activities that are also fun for adults.
Anon
I second DC. Not too cold yet and good for kids.
PolyD
DC is fantastic in October. Just be aware of the Marine Corps Marathon, I believe it happens sometime around then and might make it tricky to get hotels.
NYCer
South Carolina is great at that time of year – Charleston, Kiawah, Palmetto Bluff. You could also do San Diego or elsewhere in southern CA (including Disneyland if your kid would be interested – it is much more manageable for a day than Disneyworld).
Anon
We also have an October 4 day weekend break and have done NYC, Yosemite, San Francisco, Amelia Island FL (probably not ideal due to hurricane season but it worked out for us). We’re coming to Chicago this year.
Anon
Since middle school, I’ve washed my hair every 3 days or so. In the last couple of years, I had to switch to every other day because 3rd day hair was a no go. Now (in my late 30s), my hair is super greasy by the afternoon of the 2nd day. I’ve tried switching shampoos (twice) and I get the same result. Sometimes my scalp still feels greasy even the day after washing! I don’t use any products after washing, have average thickness straight hair, and let it air dry. I’ve started getting a noticeable amount of gray hair as well but I don’t know if it’s related. No other habits have changed. Does anyone have advice? Am I washing my hair wrong somehow??
Anon
Do you have hard water? I have super oily hair and need to wash every day no matter what, but when I’ve lived in places in hard water, my hair periodically gets to the point where doesn’t even feel clean when I get out of the shower. I have to continually switch between different clarifying shampoos (partly because they stop working, and partly because the ones that work keep getting discontinued) and occasionally rinse with vinegar.
Anon
Wash your hair more frequently.
Bodies change and do weird things, this could be one of them. Lots of people wash their hair every day, there’s nothing wrong with that.
Anon
I have been a lifelong daily morning hair washer because my hair gets greasy like this. But for logistical reasons I needed to start washing less frequently and at night and I’ve found a silk sleep bonnet has helped tremendously.
Anonymous
Why are people pathologically opposed to just washing their hair daily?
Anon
I don’t know, it’s so bizarre to me. In my 20s I briefly got suckered into thinking this and the no-poo idea. Turns out my hair looks like crap when I don’t wash it with real shampoo every day!
anon
Because it’s not necessary and strips the hair of moisture and getting the hair dry takes a lot of time.
Anonymous
apparently it is necessary for her
Anon
I hate drying my hair. I don’t mind washing it.
I color my hair and frequent washing strips the color faster.
And I’m not OP but my hair doesn’t need washing every day. I have a pretty dry scalp.
Anon
I don’t get it. I’m so grossed out by it.
Lily
Have you tried a clarifying shampoo once a week that you really work into your scalp? I like the Sunday riley one.
Anonymous
Thank you. I’ll try this. I don’t think I have hard water.
startup lawyer
the kerastase rebalancing shampoo has done amazing things for this. comes in teh green bottle.
Anon
Wash your hair. That’s the advice. The whole go for days thing is nasty.
Anon
Since hearing the news out of Texas just now, I am so utterly done with this country.
Anon
so sad.
i think there were studies that show these happen in clusters like suicides.
thoughts to those impacted
Anon
Yeah, a bunch of copycats. This one was also racially motivated and targeted black children.
Anonymous
Source?
Anon
Anon at 5:40 was misinformed. The school is 90% hispanic and 10% white. The shooter was a member of the community. Still absolutely devastating.
Anon
Believe it or not there’a a mass shooting an average of every day in the US. So it’s not so much that it’s clustered it’s more just that it’s always happening. When kids are involved or it’s racially motivated it always gets more media attention.
Anon
I guess COVID is over and we’re back to our regularly scheduled mass shootings. /s
Anon
I’m just sick to my stomach. I can’t handle this anymore. Is anything going to be done about this????
Anon
Stop voting for republicans. In Texas particularly stop voting for republican candidates.
Ugh single again
No.
Smokey
Yet another unimaginable tragedy.
Anon
* highly imagineable
Anon
“No way to prevent this says only country where this happens regularly.”
Anon
The sheer audacity of the Republican Party branding themselves as “pro life.”
Anon
+1,000,000
Seventh Sister
When I took my kids to London in 2018, we mostly blended in but I’d definitely get “looks” when I opened my mouth to say things in my Very American accent to my kids. Perhaps I’m projecting, but I felt like plenty of the looks we got were pitying, sort of, “look at that nice family with those nice children from that country with all the guns and no NHS.”
Much as I don’t like the idea of them being super far away, I encourage them to consider whether they want to live in a different industrialized country. I am very envious of anyone who can give their kids dual citizenship.
Anon
Nothing will change. The gun debate ended the minute Sandy Hook happened 9 years ago and America decided that was acceptable. Nothing has changed since then.
Anon
Yep. If the mass murder of kindergartners didn’t do it, nothing will.
Anon
*republicans
decided it was acceptable
C
bummer. Link does not work. I mean, it takes me to allbirds site but no sale.