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I first saw this jacket a few weeks ago, looking for a Suit of the Week, and every time I come back to it I'm wowed by it — the colors! the shape! the style! It's just gorgeous. Love the tweed, love the interplay of the horizontal and diagonal stripes, and I love the shrunken feel to it. ShopBop has it styled in a more casual way, but as you can tell from Bergdorf's website it would also look great with more conservative duds. It's $428 at both. Nanette Lepore Juke Box Tweed Jacket
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(L-4)
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And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
a nonny miss
Bunkster – Have you heard anything from the gym re: the surveillance tapes?
LMo – I hope your dog is doing alright! Big hugs to you and your puppy.
Sydney Bristow
You beat me to it. LMo- how is your dog?
TCFKAG
Yesterday was a rough day on the Coffee Break feed. Hopefully today will be better for everyone.
I am also worried for LMo’s dog!
Blonde Lawyer
I was at a meditation class yesterday and the instructor talked briefly about astrology (I believe Mercury was in retrograde but I may be wrong) and that from Thanksgiving until about today things have been rough for a lot of people. If you believe in that sort of thing, it should be getting better now. We are made up of water, right? If the moon can control the tides, I believe that it can control our moods and life circumstances somewhat too.
Bunkster
Just heard from the gym. The manager said they checked all the open lockers, but found nothing. He also said that they didn’t see anyone with the bag on the videos. It’s pretty distinctive (a large turquoise and grey duffle bag). They’re thinking that maybe someone stashed it in another locker…
They also have a list of all the people who checked in yesterday around the same time. So if there’s another theft, they’ll have an idea of who might have committed the crime.
Basically, it sucks. But I already knew that…
On the other hand, my clothes were overdue for a washing so the thief got a pile of dirty (but quality) clothes.
LMo
You are all the sweetest! Thank you for caring!
We are joking (because really, what else can you do) that he has a huge hangover. He can’t walk straight, has a big gash on his face, and he isn’t really doing much moving around, but I think that’s probably to be expected. But he is drinking water, and he made it through the night, so fingers crossed!
We got him as a baby about a year and a half ago during the summer I was studying for the bar, and he spent his tiny sleepy puppy months curled up on my lap sleeping while I was reading my BarBri oulines. He forced me to study. :)
Blonde Lawyer
Glad to hear he is pulling through! You and your dog are in my prayers. When my cat was sick someone shared this blog with me and I found it comforting: http://prayersforourpets.blogspot.com/. You can post for your pet and get lots of prayers.
a nonny miss
I’m so happy to hear this, LMo. I’ll keep my fingers crossed for continuing improvement.
viclawstudent
Fingers crossed for him! It’s a good sign that he made it through the night – it sucks that somebody would hit him and drive off without even stopping … I don’t understand how someone could do that without feeling super-terrible, but I’m a pretty big animal person.
N.
The bias cut peplum is really cool looking, especially from the back!
anon
Beautiful jacket. I’d just be worried that something like this would look dated in a few years. The style is pretty classic, but the colors not as much.
Thoughts?
Ellen
I agree 100 percento! The colors are VERY styelish now, but what about in a few years? I do NOT think so much. FOOEY!
The manageing partner told me to get brighter clothes, but I told him I must look CONSERVETIVE so that the NEW European clients will trust me. I learned that from Vanity Fair (a GREAT magezine).
JAS1
I think the colors sort of already look dated. But I really like the cut! I think maybe a black and white tweed would be more classic?
Abigail Joan
I’ve been admiring this jacket on line for a while – love the cut and colors but would need a deep sale to buy it – and was disappointed when it showed up on SNL a couple weeks ago in Steve Buscemi’s monologue about character actors. Abby Elliott was wearing it as “the clumsy best friend in romantic comedies,” and of course she was not styled to look pretty or sophisticated. Oh no! I finally had a chance to try the jacket on in a store last week – the peplum shape is lovely, but the combination of the very bright colors, heavy tweed, and high neckline did look dated to me. It would be a challenge – perhaps an entertaining challenge, but extra work nonetheless – to create outfits to keep the look modern and young. I’m thinking about streamlined shapes like dark fitted jeans for a casual look and a fitted pencil skirt with beautiful high pumps for work. I’ve taken the jacket off my wish list for now, but would love to hear more ideas from others about how to wear it.
Dawn
Jacket is pretty but I would probably wear it work dark pants at my office.
Sorry for the early threadjack, but I am hoping you ladies can help. On Saturday night, my family will be flying into JFK on the red-eye. We are taking a cruise from the Manhattan terminal but we can’t board the ship until noon Sunday. So I am at a loss for places to go with our group, which includes young kids and grandparents, very early on a Sunday morning (7am). Anything touristy, or shopping and eating ideas would be appreciated. Nothing too expensive and we prefer to be warm. Also where to store our luggage? It looks like all luggage storage places have closed due to security reasons.
We basically have the same problem on Xmas day, as we dock early but fly out late at night.
anon
I would head to Bubby’s (downtown Manhattan) for breakfast with the family. It’s open 24 hours, has great breakfast food, and is extremely family/kid/baby friendly. Downside: not super cheap and not close to JFK (but, nothing is close to JFK)
Frankly once you get out of the airport, get your luggage, get yourselves out of Queens and into Manhattan and sit down for food etc … that will take up most of your morning. By the time you finish eating it will probably be time to head up to the boat. With a party that size, budget lots of time to get from A to B.
have a great trip!
AIMS
It’s supposed to be sunny and in the low 40s Sunday morning, so you shouldn’t be too cold. Is your plane getting in at 7 or are you going to be in the city at seven? If you’re only getting in at 7, it will be 8 30/9 by the time you collect your luggage and get a cab (esp. if travelling with a large group). There’s not too much indoor activity that early, but you can use the time to beat the crowds, have some brunch and go see our lovely xmas trees & holiday windows on fifth avenue. Depending on how much time you have, you can hit up Bryant Park and Rockefeller Center for the Xmas trees (both off 5th, at 49th and 42 st., respectively; both also have ice skating), and check out the windows along the way (you can go as far down as 38th/5th for Lord & Taylor’s holiday windows and as far up as 61st and Madison for Barneys’ awesome windows; I wouldn’t bother trekking to Macys at 34th st., but that’s just me). Anyway, either before, after or in-between, you can have a nice holiday NYC breakfast. I’d suggest Norma’s (118 w 57th) in that area, but you can have just as much fun in a classic NYC diner (Gene’s Coffee Shop on E 60th, btwn Park & Madison [open early]; or Astro on W 55th & 6th).
Not sure where you can store your luggage but 2 possible ideas: 1) see if you can check your bags in early; 2) ask a hotel if you can leave them for a few hours (I’ve done this before outside of NYC – I usually give a $20 and ask them to hold the bags; if there’s a lot of bags, you might need to double that).
As for what to do when you come back, I highly recommend that old New York tradition of movies & chinese food. A lot of stuff will be closed, but movie theaters will all be open. I recommend Hugo f0r something the whole family can enjoy.
other anon
First thing in the morning is the best time to go to the Statue of Liberty, if you haven’t yet been there – but of course you won’t be warm. Maybe the cruise line will check your luggage for you? Or is there a hotel near the ship where you could pay to store it? This can’t be the first time that people have had to do this, so I’d ask the cruise line. The first ferry is at 9:30 a.m. at this time of year, but as anon says, it will take you a while to get your luggage and get into the city. Or go to Rockefeller Center (alas, also outside) and see the tree and the skating rink. You could eat someplace like Carnegie Deli (55th and 7th) – it’s about 1/2 mile from there to the tree.
PT Lawyer
Go see Santa Claus? ABC Carpet & Home’s Santa is old-school (think Victorian-style w/ life-size faux reindeer as props), free, lollipop-granting, and you take your own photos so there’s no ridiculous charges or sign-ups. Starts at 10 am, but you can get breakfast at LePain Quotidien next door starting at around 8am, I think. Get in line early, though.
hellskitchen
If you are taking a cruise I am assuming it’s from the Hudson. If so, this is a great place to store your luggage – http://schwartztravel.com/reviews.html. I live close by and always see tourists in and out. It’s on 36th St and 9th Ave so pretty close to where all the cruise ships take off from. You can store your luggage there and walk 10 minutes to go to Herald Square (34th and 6th Ave) which is a big shopping area (Macys etc). It also has some open space to just sit and rest for a bit. Hope this helps
Westside
Does your ship leave from the Westside? What about the Museum of Natural History (west 80s)? Cafeteria, place to sit for older family members, cool dinosaurs for younger memers, coatcheck room.
Anon
Call your cruise line. They often have a place to store luggage at the dock, which isn’t too far from the major attractions. What about ice skating in central park?
GovtMom
Crazy idea: check into renting a limo, executive car or something like that for a few hours. It picks you up at airport, drives you to X place for a nice breakfast, maybe a short drive around some sites in NYC, then drops you off at the cruise terminal before noon. Transportation, sight-seeing and luggage storage in one!
Anonny
This is brilliant. Probably not too costly, either.
Dawn
Thanks for all your great tips! Now we will play it by ear depending on weather. Thanks!
Emily I
How much would you tip your hair stylist/colorist for the holidays? Additional info: I’m in small town, Midwest. I pay between $90 and $110 every other visit for cut and color, and $35 a visit for just a cut on the visits in between. She owns her own shop (no other employees), so I don’t tip her during the rest of the year.
Circe
Aaaaah! Holiday tipping season! *hides under desk*
Kelly
On this note, does anyone know the rules for tipping a clerk at the post office? It’s not a mailman but the guy at the counter, he’s always super helpful to me, can I give him cash if it’s under $25 or something? Or does it have to be a gift card?
Ellen
I HEARD it was illegal to tip a postal guy and I did some RESEARCH for us! According to the website,
“The Standards of Ethical Conduct for Employees of the Executive Branch(Standards of Ethical Conduct) prohibits an employee from soliciting a gift for himself or another. The Standards also prohibit a federal employee from accepting a gift from a prohibited source or one given because of the employee’s official position — unless the item is excluded from the definition of a gift or falls within one of the exceptions set forth in the regulations. As a general rule of thumb, any item with a market value of more than $20 is considered a prohibited gift. Cash and cash equivalents in any amount are always considered prohibited gifts. 5 C.F.R. Part 2635.204.”
This will teach ALAN that I can be pretty AND smart! FOOEY ON HIM!
Govvie
I give my mailman $20; however, they are not supposed to take any money or gifts, so be discreet. I’m sure he’ll appreciate it.
TechAnon
Postal employees are not allowed to accept cash tips. Many do, if they are out on their carrier routes, but I suspect the guy at the counter will have to refuse. After all, his boss is probably watching.
The best things you can do for him are to write him a heart-felt thank you note, and to write a letter of recommendation to the postmaster at that office.
Kelly
hmm okay, I’d like to give something of value though, can I give a gift card in an envelope? He’s prob keen enough to open it at home. It’s also a very small post office, he’s the only one I ever see at the counter.
TCFKAG
You could do that — though do you really want to risk getting him in trouble for $20? I believe that federal employees can accept presents if it is of the sort that can be shared, so you might consider bringing him a tin of cookies and a sincere note thanking him for being so great. I know postal employees (and frankly all service providers) mostly hear from people when the people are pissed off about something, so hearing how great they’re doing at their job would probably be great.
coco
One year, around the holidays, my dad showed up at the post office with a edible arrangement (it was down the street). Now the entire staff adores us. So what about some sort of holiday perishable?
Equity's Darling
Whoah…am I required to tip my hair stylist (who also owns her own business) extra at Christmas if I do so (generously I might add) throughout the rest of the year?
Emily I
My mother sees my same stylist and tips her generously throughout the year, so my mom does not give her a holiday tip. I think that’s acceptable for the owner of the shop. I’m just not sure what to do since I don’t tip throughout the year. (And she’s terrific and often goes above and beyond!)
momentsofabsurdity
Everything I’ve heard is that you don’t need to tip a salon owner, but it’s becoming more and more accepted to do so. So it’s one of those awkward play-it-by-ear tipping situations.
anon
My stylist is also the shop owner, and when I first started going there she would fill out my credit card slip with the total cost of service on the Total line on the charge slip, so there was no way to add a tip (she is old school, just fills out the credit card slip by hand). Then about a year ago, she started putting the total cost of the service in the Subtotal line, leaving the tip line and Total line blank, so I started adding a tip. I figure times are hard, she needed the money.
cbackson
I don’t tip my hairstylist extra at Christmas, for what it’s worth.
Tipster
I see the same stylist all year who also owns her own shop. I tip $15-$20 per service, and at Christmas I give her a $20 gift card in addition to the normal tip. It isn’t much, but it shows that I am appreciative.
Hel-lo
Wow, I thought I was tipping well at $10 per $50 haircut/blowout. You’re very kind.
Movie Tickets
I give him a movie theater gift card.
Anon
I’ve been seeinig my stylist/colorist about 3 times per year for the past few years, and my appointments have never been around the holidays, so I’ve never worried about holiday tipping. This year, however, my appointment is a few days before Christmas, so I’m also wondering how much extra I need to tip? To complicate matters, the ONLY reason I keep going to her is because she’s the only one who can get my color right. However, she’s always late, she recently forgot about an appointment I made months ago, and I don’t really like the way she cuts my hair.
Cat
I’m having trouble thinking of a tactful way to bring this up, but surely they’d like to keep you as a customer and may be willing to split who does color vs. the cut?
KK
If she asks why, perhaps say that you have a friend at so-and-so salon who really wants to cut your hair, but this lady is the only one you trust with your color. Mixing in a little bit of flattery will take the edge off any rejection she feels.
Of course, then you have to go to 2x the hair appointments.
anon
I agree with Cat. Next time you make an appointment, specify for colour only, not cut. If she asks, say I’m growing it out for a bit or something, or just, “oh, no, not today”.
eaopm3
Midwest, 35 – 120 dollar visits depending on the service, my stylist doesn’t own her own place, so I tip each time, but gave her $50 this past time as a “Christmas tip”.
ANP
Hi ladies, just wanted to say that yesterday’s thread re: getting up early inspired me this morning! I got everything prepped last night and set my alarm for 5:20 — got up early, went to the gym to swim, and was in the office (coffee in hand) by 7:30. My arms are like jelly after only a 1/3 mile swim, but I have lots of energy and am feeling really good about getting up today.
Thanks to all of you who chimed in on that post. I’ve been having a hard time getting motivated to work out and this was perfect — I didn’t feel guilty stealing time from work, kid, etc. because no one was awake! It was truly “me time.”
Kelly
Yay! I don’t often work out in the morning, but when I do I supplement my breakfast with a 110 calorie protein shake, otherwise I’m starving all day!
AnonInfinity
I don’t swim as much right now, but I went through a phase where I was swimming almost every morning. Although I am an educated woman, I became convinced that swimming actually makes you pregnant because of the insane hunger I’d feel all.day. after swimming. I’ve run marathons and wouldn’t be as hungry after an 18 mile run as I was after an hour-long swim.
Ellie
Same. I lose weight relatively easy when I run or bike, but when I’m in intense swim training, I eat SO much that even with 3-4 mile training swims, I keep the weight on. Oh well, at least it tones me up a bit.
Anonymous
It’s because your whole body is burning calories to keep you warm on top of the energy for moving. (Is my totally non-scientific guess.)
I’ve found eating RIGHT AWAY (sometimes before showering) and making sure it’s carbs and protein fixes the hungry all day feeling. Usually.
magnola
haha, have those dos equis commercials ruined the ‘i don’t always . . . but when i do’ for anyone else? i always think of those commercials when i hear that phrase now.
Ditto
Me too! I woke up 20 min earlier – time enough to shower in the morning instead of the evening. Revolutionary.
Lucy
I got up early to do a massive baking project (it’s Santa Lucia, y’all!) so I’m not the best example of self-care today, but it’s really a good lifestyle choice if you can swing it!
N
Love Santa Lucia – the cafeteria at work actually sold Lucia buns today.
ANP
The inside of my tummy would have preferred that I got up to bake; however, the [flabby] outside required I work out instead! Yummmm.
Canadian
Me too! :)
Oh, no!
I have been an associate in a mid-sized law firm for about six-seven months. I just had my end-of-the-year review.
It was shocking. And terrifying.
My substantive work was, as expected, just fine. However, I was told that I need to learn to “play the game,” that law offices are hierarchies, and that office politics are important. I was left absolutely stunned, because I had been very carefully nice, friendly, and *obviously* respectful. (I can’t believe I even had to say that to confirm.) I asked for more specific feedback, to understand, etc., and the only thing I was told that specific partners will *not* ever talk to associates. So, I made a mistake in politely but directly asking a question?
I am confused because I honestly thought that everything was going really. well. Does anybody have any advice on what the “office politics/hierarchy” feedback really means? I am at a loss as to how I should change my demeanor. Thanks!
anon
I would start by becoming an astute observer of how other people operate and interact in the office. Don’t rely on direct communication as your main source of knowledge – crazy as it sounds, keep your eyes and ears open to what people do and how they behave around each other,as much or even more than what they say. You may be avoiding or ignoring things like office gossip or idle chatter b/c it seems annoying and unimportant, but it can also be illuminating (listen, don’t contribute). You can learn a lot (more, even) about office dynamics from just observation. Good luck!
Lucy
Is there someone you trust to confidentially help you understand this review and go over unspoken protocol with you? Maybe one of the people who did the review, or someone senior to you but to whom you are not a direct report? Seems like you need to get in the loop, gossip-wise and politics-wise.
SC
Hugs to you!! I would continue being nice, friendly, and respectful. Other than that, ask some of the associates with a couple of years more experience to go to lunch with you, and see if they can clue you in on working with certain partners. In terms of asking questions, my rule of thumb has always been to ask the person who delegated the work to me, even if that person is working for someone else – but every firm is different, so your best resource is the people who have been there just a bit longer than you.
JAS1
wow, that’s awful! do something nice for yourself today – like maybe go back and read nice recommendation letters people have written for you in the past to remind yourself that you have impressed people in the past.
Next, just based on what you said, I think that it sounds like you somehow unknowingly deeply offended someone in particular, and the reviewers were delivering that person’s message (whether s/he was in the room or not). OR, maybe you are perceived as a suck-up/too forward?
Even if you *were* being rude to people, or your work was terrible, or you were a slacker, you still should have received more specific feedback in your review. I thought the point of reviews was just that – to tell people where they need to improve and what they are doing right.
cbackson
I agree with your second paragraph. OP, I think that unfortunately, somewhere along the way, you offended somebody. The reviewers were tasked with delivering that message, and so they did. It likely took on greater salience in the review meeting than it did in your overall evaluation.
Anon13
Some partners won’t even speak to associates? Sounds like these people are jerks with huge egos. Learn to play the game for the sake of your own career, but don’t feel bad about anything you may or may not have done to offend such people, and don’t let them get you down.
sadie
Honestly, I’d find a new firm. Do you really want to make partner in a firm where your partners will think that this is an appropriate message to deliver in an evaluation?
Anon
This. As a former HR manager, I can tell you that it is generally unacceptable to use an annual review as a vehicle for delivering unexpected bad news about your performance. You should go into a review having a pretty clear idea of what is about to come to you. If you are missing cues in the workplace that are so significant that they must be documented in your performance review, then I would seriously reconsider your longterm plans with this firm.
I think the advice throughout this thread is good (such as speaking with other associates with a few more years of experience), but this is a ridiculous non-“issue” to raise in a review. Keep in mind that the purpose of reviews is not really to chart YOUR professional development, but rather, they are a mechanism for an employer to sort workers along many different paths.
Eleanor
Agree with this. It sounds like it’s in your best interest to figure out what’s going on and to make a few changes (difficult though that may be without much guidance), but don’t think it’s a reflection on you personally that a few people who sound like idiots won’t deign to speak to you when you’re being polite and respectful and trying to get information to do your job.
TCFKAG
That’s kind of insane. I’ve never really heard that as a critique, so its hard to give advice (other than start looking for a different job as soon as you can…)
(1) I agree with the advice to get a more senior associate to go to lunch with you, one you believe will be frank and honest about office politics. Another idea is if you are friendly with an assistant to take them out to coffee, they usually know all the gossip.
(2) If I had to guess what your review means, it may mean that you are skipping steps in the hierarchy when working on the case. So if a case is staffed with a senior partner, a junior partner, a senior associate, and you, then you should always go to the associate first to ask questions (NOTE, this is not how my office worked, but its possible that is what they meaned). It is also possible that you’ve been too aggressive in trying to seek out work or something from certain partners, but again, I don’t have any idea.
Finally — if there really are partners at your firm who treat junior associates like untouchables who shouldn’t even talk to them, that is a very concerning sign about your office culture. I would polish your resume, begin attending lots of industry/networking events, and maybe look to make a move if one becomes available.
And for today, feel free to have a bit of a pissy party and bitch to whomever about the ridiculousness.
TCFKAG
First answer was moderated, so posting again. Hopefully this has no “danger” words.
That’s kind of insane. I’ve never really heard that as a critique, so its hard to give advice (other than start looking for a different job as soon as you can…)
(1) I agree with the advice to get a more senior associate to go to lunch with you, one you believe will be frank and honest about office politics. Another idea is if you are friendly with an assistant to take them out to coffee, they usually know all the gossip.
(2) If I had to guess what your review means, it may mean that you are skipping steps in the hierarchy when working on the case. So if a case is staffed with a senior partner, a junior partner, a senior associate, and you, then you should always go to the associate first to ask questions (NOTE, this is not how my office worked, but its possible that is what they meant). It is also possible that you’ve been too aggressive in trying to seek out work or something from certain partners, but again, I don’t have any idea.
Finally — if there really are partners at your firm who treat junior associates like untouchables who shouldn’t even talk to them, that is a very concerning sign about your office culture. I would polish your resume, begin attending lots of industry/networking events, and maybe look to make a move if one becomes available.
Herbie
Okay, I’m reading between the lines here… Mr. Senior Partner does not deal with associates. But you’re clearly doing work for him (her?) if you are “politely but directly asking a question,” so I’m guessing there is some sort of intermediary–let’s call her Superstar Junior Partner or SJP–who runs day to day on Senior Partner’s cases, deals with staffing, and fields questions from young associates like yourself? If that’s the case, go through SJP. It might seem inefficient, but you have to play the game.
Also, my initial reaction is that the partners you refer to must be jerks! But then I remembered that there used to be partners like that in my old firm. It wasn’t really that they didn’t deign to talk to junior associates… it was more that they were really busy and didn’t have the time to dole out work to multiple baby lawyers, field [sometimes obvious and dumb] questions, or supervise baby lawyer work product. They had a senior subordinate (either senior assoc. or junior partner) whom they trusted and had worked with for a long time, and they depended on that person to be the gatekeeper to their work. So maybe that’s what’s going on here? If not, maybe you truly are in what Bob Sutton calls a Den of A$$holes…
Anon
It seems as if a merit-based, work-focused perspective is not highly valued by your firm. I recommend reading the 48 Laws of Power by Robert Greene. Even if you do not adopt all of the strategies, it should at least help you to be more aware of how others operate.
Hel-lo
I’d also suggest reading Nice Girls Don’t Get the Corner Office. It really opened my eyes to how much getting involved in “office gossip”-type situations can actually be *helpful*.
Hugs. This sucks.
Also, it sounds to me like they’re looking for a reason to force you out. I’d also start polishing the resume and amp up the networking.
Another Sarah
I got pretty much the same comment at my review. What makes it worse is that I’m dealing with fundamental cultural differences AND giant egos, as opposed to just giant egos. I can’t give much more advice, since I didn’t have a choice except to learn how to play the game, which I’m starting to do. But I can say that when you do learn how to play the game, things go muuuch smoother.
Anon for this
That’s so awful. Going anon for this story: during my 6 mo. eval. I received feedback that essentially equated to me having a “bad attitude” and not being “enthusiastic” enough. My reviewing partner and I were struggling to figure out what it meant (because he had worked with me and had not had the same experience), and I believe it was because I was listening to the dogma of “managing expectations” and trying to be very clear with certain (very demanding) people about my available time (I was consistently billing between 12-16 hour days during that time period across a multitude of accounts and they wanted even more of my time). The people on the receiving end of this were interpreting this as 1) an unwillingness to take on work, and 2) pushback/lack of enthusiasm/poor attitude, whatever you want to call it.
His advice to me was: play the game. People always say that when you deal with clients, you should make them feel like they are your only client. Treat your internal supervisors as if they are your clients. If you have problems managing expectations or with your workload, outline what you’re working on and ask them how you can resolve it. Let them feel as if you care about their problems. It doesn’t mean you have to be a doormat, but I think that I came out of the gate a little too strong (which is my personality) and that certain people wanted a more meek junior associate. (ps – that last sentence enrages me, because I wonder if they would want the same thing in a man. But I also think that it plays into the general hierarchy of a firm – e.g., knowing your role)
Think about your immediate supervisors (the mid/senior level counsel – not necessarily the partners) – who are they, what makes them tick (insecure, ego-driven, etc.)? Think about how you can work with each personality type. What is the tone of your voice? Can you fake polite enthusiasm? For those people who gave me negative feedback – I put a smile on my face and pretend that I like them and/or whatever terrible assignment they just gave me. (I realize that sentence sounds unhealthy, but I figure that anywhere I go I am going to work with all types of people, some of whom I won’t like that much, but I’m just going to have to suck it up and deal.) Another tip is to perhaps be a tad more open/personal/demonstrate an interest in someone’s personal life.
…hopefully these tips will work for me in my year-end review (haven’t received it yet).
Also, keep in mind, this may be feedback from only one person (or a small subset of the people you’ve worked with). Don’t beat yourself up too much; just make some small changes regarding how you relate to others.
N
I actually love this jacket, and I think I would wear it with jeans to my very casual work-place…
Threadjack back to last week:
Thanks to all who chimed in on my giving to charities threadjack last week: https://corporette.com/2011/12/07/suit-of-the-week-boss-black/
Especially thanks to nev, who gave out a couple of questions that helped me in narrowing down my focus.
To start, I ended up going with a mix of global and local. I made a list of the organizations, dealing with issues that I care strongly about.
SOS Children’s Villages International, the WWF & Doctors without borders.
The Church City Mission (Norwegian organization that does social work for the less fortunate), the Norwegian Church Abroad (as I used them quite a bit when I was abroad myself) and the Norwegian Cancer Society.
I may end up tacking a couple of more on top of that as the years go by, but I felt that it was a good starting point.
I’m still in a student mindset, while having a decent paycheck, financially, so a tenth of my income (after taxes) felt like going way overboard as a first measure. I looked into tax deduction laws in Norway and think I will settle slightly over the upper limit there, as a first year financial involvement. It actually ends up giving a fairly decent sum to the organizations throughout the year. (I feel slightly less charitable for considering tax implications, though). I considered giving one sum at the time, but a lot of the charities say that they prefer people giving smaller sums regularly, as it helps them in their financial planning.
Thanks to all who commented; you gave me food for thought in the process and gave me a starting point.
nev
Thanks for the update! It is hard to switch from “student with no money” (recipient) to “actually earning good money” (giver.) I set up automatic deductions and then each year when the orgs say, “would you like to increase your monthly donation from [small amount] to [slightly larger amount]?” I say “yes!” It feels good.
Coalea
Apologies for the threadjack…
Ladies, I am freaking out! As you may recall, I’ve been out of work for 6 months. In all that time, I have had only one real lead, which began developing just before Thanksgiving. Initial phone screen went very well, as did follow-up interviews. I was actually expecting them to make a decision almost immediately afterwards, but was asked to complete an additional phone interview with a senior team member who I had not yet spoken to/met. I was scheduled to receive a call from this person at 9:00 this morning. At 9:15, I was starting to get worried and double-checked the confirmation email from the recruiter I’ve been working with. Turns out, she sent out my phone number incorrectly!!! When I contacted her to let her know, she acted like it was all my fault for not catching her mistake sooner – even though I had to remind her to even send me a confirmation in the first place, and I had confirmed my number with her as “the one on my resume” and “the number you use to call me.”
Now I’m terrified – assuming I can reschedule, what if this senior person has a horrible impression of me based on this morning’s snafu? Or what if this was a once-in-a-lifetime chance and we can’t reschedule? I have no other promising job options right now. If I lose this, I don’t know what I’m going to do!
Thanks for listening to my rant :)
anon
The fact is, you should have caught her mistake sooner. The good news is that the senior person will probably view it as her mistake, not yours. I’m sure you’ll be able to reschedule – be VERY nice to the recruiter to make sure you do. Next time you’ll be sure that the person has the right number, and you’ll do great!
KK
Please immediately forget everything in that last paragraph you wrote (the worst case scenarios). It doesn’t matter what could possible in theory happen as a result of something you can’t change. Just do your best going forward. Focus on what you can control at this point.
Relatedly, once you reschedule the interview, don’t spend the first five minutes spewing apologies about the mistake. Say you’re sorry you didn’t catch it sooner and you were very relieved that the interviewer was able to reschedule. That’s it. Then move on with the interview. Focusing on it any more than that will just come off as insecure and desperate (even if you are actually desperate- and who isn’t, in this economy?- you don’t want to look that way), when you want to look confident and reliable.
Homestar
Totally agree with KK here. Don’t focus on the mistake in the rescheduled interview. Sound confident and you will do great!
Mella
On phone numbers: I’ve learned that when asked “What’s your phone number?” the best policy is to reel it off digit by digit, area code first. Any other answer like “don’t you have it?” or “it’s there in my file; you used it to call me” isn’t as helpful. (This is part of a larger policy I have about absolute vs relative, e.g. “We’re meeting Tuesday the 18th” instead of “We’re meeting next Tuesday.”) I’m so anal that in phone numbers I’ll say “three two two zero” instead of “thirty-two twenty.”
Likewise my voicemail includes the phrase “Please leave me your phone number, even if you think I already have it.”
I hope the rescheduling goes well and you nail the interview. :)
Coalea
To those who have replied, thanks for the encouragement. The phone interview is rescheduled for later this afternoon and I’m hopeful that it will go as well as my previous interactions with this potential employer!
Mamma Mia
OK, gals, I wrote about a month ago that I had just stopped taking the BC pills and that my hubby and I were ready to start TTC. Well, according to the calendar, good ol’ Auntie Flo should have started her visit on Thursday, but there’s still no sign. Now, a) I haven’t had a non-chemically managed period in about 12 years, and b) even before that, I was rarely normal and predictable. But, on the other hand, I did really *feel* something that I assume must have been ovulation during the time that I was supposed to, and we kind of had a bit of fun during that time.
I’m reluctant to take a test, though I can’t really explain why. I know that I have a tendancy to over-pathologize things, so I hate to make a big deal out of it. (Yes, I know that a pregnancy test is not really a big deal, but humor me here.) I know that when we decided to start trying, we specifically discussed the idea of getting pregnant this quickly (I even imagined how fun it would be to announce it to the fam at Christmas), but I guess I didn’t really consider it likely. Is it normal to skip or be really late with it after stopping the pill, or should I be thinking that something’s happening here?
Ellie
It could take a while to get your period back after being on the pill. I think it took almost 3 months when I first went off (I wasn’t TTC, just over hormones). My fiance made me take about 4 tests until it came. They were all negative.
AnonInfinity
Take the test!
Yes, it does often take longer than 28 days to get your first period off of BC. But I do know some women who got pregnant in their first cycle off the pill.
Take the test!
Kelly
If your period wasn’t regular before you went on the pill, I doubt you would get the next one exactly 28 days after you stopped the pill. My cycle was always 28 days so when I went off the pill it was still every 28 days. If you felt cramping on one side sort of near your back that could have been ovulation, and the period should come 14 days after that. I would take a test once you’re 10 days late, or see if you could track exactly when you thought you ovulated.
I haven’t read taking charge of your fertility yet though, this is just info I’ve gathered from elsewhere, so others might have more info!
CSF
I was at 33 days for my first period after going off the pill. But, it’s easy to take the test, and it’ll give you peace of mind one way or the other.
Always a NYer
While I’ve never had to worry if I were pregnant or not, I do tend to over-think things and allow my mind to make a mountain out a a molehill. Wait a week or so and then take a pregnancy test, I think there’s one that does early detection but the name is escaping me.
If you’re really freaked about buying the test yourself, have your husband do it and ask him to go a town or two away. Either way, I think you’ll be more at ease if you know one way or the other.
meme
It took me 7 or 8 months to get pregnant after being on the pill for 5 years (my doctor confirmed it can take awhile for your body to get with the program after being on the pill for a long time). However, my periods were never late or skipped after being on the pill. That said, I think for people who have irregular cycles the pill can regulate them and all bets are off if you go off of it.
If it were me I would be too impatient to wait around wondering. Just go buy a 3-pack of pregnancy tests and give it a go! What have you got to lose (except $8)?
Diana Barry
Take the test, or wait. It is not uncommon to have really irregular periods after coming off the pill – in rare cases your body can refuse to kick-start itself, even. I didn’t have a regular period for over a year after coming off the pill.
But at least if you take the test you won’t worry about the what-ifs any more!
N.
I was on BC for 10+ years before coming off of it (not TTC, other reasons), and it took about six months for my period to return. I bought a big box of pregnancy tests and did one on the first of every month just to confirm that I wasn’t pregnant. I’d want to know one way or the other rather than deal with the uncertainty, but I guess that’s a highly personal decision.
Hel-lo
This happened to me, too. I went off and didn’t get my period for 6 months. I got pretty nervous and took lots of tests.
For you though, take the test. Unless you like worrying all the time (which some people do). But if it were me, I’d rather know for sure.
KW
Take the test! I know it’s scary because as ready as you thought you were, you’ll probably second guess that for a moment when you think you actually are pregnant. I stopped taking my BC pills last December after having taken them for 12 years and got pregnant that month, so it can happen. Good luck!
ANP
Take the test! I suppose I’m a weird case, but I went off the Pill after having been on some type of hormonal birth control for 6-8 years and BAM! Got pregnant the first month we tried. That was almost three years ago. We’ve now been trying for #2 for almost 6 months (and I did not go back on the Pill in between kids) and…nothing.
Take the test. Better to know.
Margaret
Everyone else is right that your period is unpredictable right now, so you can’t know anything until you take the test. But, FWIW, I just wanted to add that I totally commiserate with the whole fear-of-taking-the-test thing. My hubby and I had been trying for four months when I finally missed my period. The first day, I was pretty sure I was pregnant, since I was in fact regular immediately after going off BC. The second day, more sure. … Yet, I did nothing.
I waited until a full week late to actually take the test confirming I’m pregnant. For me, knowing that we’d been trying to get pregnant made me feel guilty about the fear and dread I was feeling, and I wasn’t ready to confront those feelings. (When I got the positive result, I burst out crying and asked my husband to “take it back.” :) You may well be feeling something similar, and it’s totally normal to feel a little ambivalent (say my pregnancy books). And, again FWIW, I’m thrilled now, seven weeks in.
Julie
This. We were trying for a few months, but I was still completely freaked out when it actually happened and the results — of three tests; I couldn’t quite believe the first one — were positive. Take the test, and if it’s positive give it a few days, and you will be thrilled.
(Oh, and the baby is 17 and 6-feet tall now. I’m still thrilled with him, except during the 15 times a day when I want to smack him upside the head.)
Julie
Oh, and I forgot to mention — I found I had raging PMS when I first went off the pill after many years. I thought I was having mental health problems for the first time in my life. Nope, just the weirdness of the hormones coming back after so long. Keep that in mind if you’re not feeling quite normal yet.
NYC
Ditto. Felt very off, sort of depressed, the first two months I went off the pill. It coincided with some other changes but I think the change in hormones was part of it.
Btw, my period was very regular before 8 years on the pill, and it took a few months to resume a regular pattern.
Porter
Just take the test and end your stress about it. None of us can tell you anything with certainty. FWIW, my cylces went from 28 to 35 days after stopping BC. But we are all different. If you aren’t pregnant (and, even if you are), read “Taking Charge of Your Fertility.” Good luck!
stc
Just like to add, I am about 3 months pregnant and TOTALLY got pregnant the month after I stopped taking BC. I kept waiting to get a period so that I could start counting days and figure out when I was ovulating. Finally took a test and…yeah…positive. I highly recommend early pregnancy test (dot) com. You can get a bunch super cheap (like a buck each). It was nice when i was questioning whether I was really pregnant. I think I took one once a day for the first couple of weeks.
anon chi law
Amazing jacket!
Threadjack – I applied for a job via LinkedIn last week. It’s the first time I’ve ever done that (has anyone else?) but it’s the only place I could find the job listing. I haven’t heard anything yet (although, I realize it’s not been very long) but I was wondering when you ladies thought an appropriate followup time would be? And the medium? The hiring partner’s email address is readily available both on his LinkedIn page and his firm’s site.
Thanks for your help!
Equity's Darling
I’m attempting the button down under the sheath dress look. Black ponte dress from banana, striped white/peach button down from banana, and opaque black tights. I’m also rocking these adorable little black rose studs that I bought at a market collective event in my city, I just love them.
I’m really liking it the shirt under sheath, because I’m constantly cold at my office, but I’m also feeling a bit like I’m wearing my elementary school uniform (which involved a dress with a button down underneath). I mean, I’m not wearing Mary Janes and a backpack anymore, but I still feel like perhaps this outfit makes me look a little young maybe.
Can I do a layering long-sleeve tee under a sheath? Or is this look limited to shirts with collars?
What’s everyone else wearing today?
MsZ
I love this look, too – I find it very cozy and simple to assemble. I tend to employ a tissue turtleneck, patterned tights, and colored/patent/suede shoes, to funk the outfit up a bit.
Diana Barry
I am wearing a LS tee under a short-sleeve dress today (both maternity), tee is dark brown and dress is light brown.
SunnyD
I’d love to hear what everyone’s wearing today. We’re having lots of overcast weather and everything in my closet seems black and gray. Needing some inspiration to wear something more fun.
Ditto
I do button downs, long-sleeve tees and long-sleeve blouses. Sometimes, if I’m really cold or I want to extend the life of my blouses by not washing them, I’ll wear a long-sleeve tee underneath a blouse. I think the fabric of the shirt (which affects the drape), as well as the color will help mitigate the school uniform look. So pick more saturated colors.
Ellie
Today’s a studying for finals day, so nothing exciting.. orange sweater, orange and white long-sleeved tee poking out underneath and around the neckline, pink statement necklace, jeans, olive laceless canvas oxfords.
viclawstudent
I have the same question about that type of outfit … I don’t want to wear the sleeveless sheath by itself most of the year, but sometimes it’s not time for a blazer – but then I do find that wearing a button-up shirt under it makes me feel like a 6-year-old girl (especially when wearing tights).
MsZ’s turtleneck suggestion is a good, but I don’t own any turtlenecks. Perhaps it’s time to find a layering tee that goes with the dress.
Mountain Girl
Coral colored jewel collar jacket with charcoal pants and mockneck sweater. I’m wearing my Grandma’s pearl Christmas brooch and that always makes me feel special. (I wanted only two things from my Grandma’s stuff after she passed away and they were both Christmas pins from her jewel box.)
ANP
Feeling very brown today — brown Merona pumps, brown striped tone-on-tone tights, tweed skirt, white tank and brown cardigan. Pearls with diamond stud earrings — not sure if that’s a faux pas?
KM
Dark gray Theory shift dress with pleated bottom with a long light gray open cashmere cardigan belted over it with a skinny belt, black hose and pewter round toe pumps. Really loving the look, especially since I got the dress (which looks like it has never been worn) at the Salvation Army for $2.
TechAnon
Major thrifting score!
Kady
I’m trying the color combo from the splurge outfit from yesterday – so, the “skirt” in magenta with a moss colored cowl neck sweater. Black tights and boots.
nev
Yesterday’s outfit was more exciting because I found some new work clothes this weekend.
But today it’s back to average… navy pants, teal blouse, grey cardi. Dansko clogs with cozy wool socks because I’m babysitting a friend’s toddler after work!
Eating clementines by the half dozen at my desk. The color/smell are just what I need on a grey morning.
AB
Just plowed through a whole pile of clems at my desk. Delish! Also singing ‘Good King Wenceslas’ under my breath.
Wearing black slacks, a cream blouse with mother of pearl buttons and mauve cardi today. A little boring but my hair is cute despite sleeping on it wet last night!
TCFKAG
I was wearing the “skirt” in magenta yesterday and I felt a connection to the splurge outfit. :-)
LMo
Long sleeved red/purple puff sleeve dress from Talbots, gray tights, black AT flats, gold watch, tortise shell headband. I love dresses, they help me feel put together on days I don’t feel very inspired.
Nonny
Lots of people with “The Skirt” in magenta! I am wearing mine today too. There must be some sort of Corporette Cosmic Convergence or something.
So:
– The Skirt in magenta
– black and taupe patterned blouse from Anthro
– black cardigan
– black tights
– black flats
Have my first Christmas party of the year on Thursday and am totally planning to rock out a bright red sheath dress like the one that was featured here last week (though mine isn’t quite as clingy).
Baby lawyer
I’m wearing a blue/purple/yellow print silk dress, black cardigan, black patent pumps, and black tights. Highly recommend the dress, which is on sale at Bluefly. I’m short (5’1) so it comes down to just above my knees and is totally appropriate for my business casual office. I have so far only tried it with a black cardigan, but I think it could look cute with other colors, or with a blazer.
http://www.bluefly.com/Cynthia-Steffe-black-floral-printed-silk-Trisha-dress/cat20102/314258201/detail.fly
LMo
That dress is cute!
Cee
Black cashmere turtleneck belted with a brown belt studded with copper/bronze thingies (pretty subtle)
Camel/black/brown plaid A-line skirt
Black tights
Brown riding boots
bronze hoop earrings
Was feeling very cute until I realized that there is a hole in the seam of my sweater. Luckily, it’s in the armpit and shouldn’t be noticable except to me.
TechAnon
Aw, that still sounds cute! I love black and brown together.
Julie
Black boiled wool pencil skirt, charcoal gray long cardigan with grogsrain ribbon/ruffle down the front from Vera Wang for Kohl’s, black opaque tights, knee-high, mid-heel black boots, slightly dangly silver interlocking hoop earrings, black enamel bangle watch.
Hel-lo
Blackish tweed skirt, beige v-neck thin sweater, beige-ish blouse under the sweater (peeking out), black shrunken blazer over top, black tights, black heels. Chunky teal necklace for a pop of color.
So
Blue Jcrew shirtdress with Lands End Canvas salmon cardigan, black tights, brogues. copper earrings and tiger eye necklace. The shirtdress is a leeeetle short, which has made me self-conscious all day, but hey, it’s grad school, no one cares :D
MsZ
Ladies, I could really use your help. I have a career first tomorrow – oral argument before my jurisdiction’s highest court – and my lifelong reaction to stress has been . . . to cry. I’ve teared up when advocating for myself to my supervisors, when resigning jobs I’ve loved, when I’ve frozen during mock trial exercises . . . and I’m getting teared up today just from the stress of tomorrow.
I know there have been many threads on crying at work, etc etc . . . but does anyone have any specific advice on not crying as a stress response during a career first? I would really, really appreciate it.
anon
I have been known to go into the ladies’ room before hugely stressful arguments, trials, etc., and burst into tears for about 30 seconds. That gets it out of my system, and then I can wipe my eyes, put a smile on my face, and go forth to conquer. I think there’s actually something chemical that happens in our bodies that both causes us to cry and relieves our stress when we do. So don’t be afraid of it, just manage it.
Anon
I have been there too (both with the oral argument and the crying). I agree with the above comment to have a quick cry if you can before the OA (though I might try to get it out tonight so your eyes aren’t puffy and your make up isn’t runny before OA). My other advice is to not think about crying. I also cry and turn lobster red under stress. If I start to feel the urge to cry or start to feel myself turn red it helps to just not think about it. If I say to myself, “no, you can’t cry,” it just makes me more upset and increases my chances of crying. Or if I think, “uh oh, you are turning red” I just get more and more red! Deep breathing helps me too. (And it helps me not talk so fast, which is a huge problem I have!) During OA try to focus extremely hard on the court’s questions and hopefully you won’t have time to get stressed out. I’ll keep my fingers crossed that you have a hot bench!
Lucy
Can you bring a water bottle, and if you feel yourself starting to tear up, stop, fake cough if necessary, and then take a loooonng drink to interrupt your crying?
Canadian
This kept me from crying while speaking at my wedding!
viclawstudent
I am a cryer, too, although more when under personal stress than under professional stress, mostly because the thing that helps me avoid it is feeling very prepared. I’m going to assume that you are in fact very prepared for this so that’s not going to be helpful …
My only tip is to control everything you can control, very rigidly – like, try to get the right amount of sleep for you (don’t under or oversleep – both of those make me more emotionally fragile), make sure you’ve eaten enough to be full and eaten something that will regulate your blood sugar for a long time (drop in blood sugar = emotional sensitivity), and so on. Maybe try to exercise hard the night before – the serotonin bump can be helpful. I find that the better I feel physically, the more adept I am at handling the stress of overwhelming situations.
Also, this might sound a little New Age-y, but maybe try doing a couple visualizations tonight? Sit in a quiet spot and relax and picture yourself, in detail, getting through the argument with flying colours, and responding to the bench competently, and so on. It’s highly recommended as a tool in athletics – apparently the more you visualize something going in a certain way, the more likely you are to perform like that day of – so it probably can’t hurt.
N.
I cry in response to stress too, and it sucks. I even find myself tearing up when something stressful is going *well* (ie, I’m giving a lecture and it’s going well, and somehow I manage to cry in response to that feeling of release when a stressful situation passes). It’s a miserable thing to have happen because it makes me look like I’m about to lose my sh*t when I’m not, it just seems to be what happens when I get keyed up.
When I feel it happening, I usually a) try not to focus on it and hope that the feeling will subside without actual tears, or b) if it’s inevitable, I usually say, “sorry, I’ve got something in my eye” and wipe the tears away. If everything else about your demeanor looks calm and confident, it’s usually believable.
Anon
I often cry in response to stress too (and it has gotten worse since I had my baby!) I have also argued in front of our state’s highest court. I think if you are incredibly prepared and thoughtful, you will be ok. Take some water up to the podium and if you need a second to collect your thoughts, take a drink slowly. (Also drink slowly so you don’t make yourself choke.)
Blonde Lawyer
In an emergency I’ll fake sneeze for a bit, blow my nose, wipe my eyes and then say “excuse me, my allergies are just awful right now.” Then I keep going with an excuse to have watery eyes and a runny nose. I later have asked others who saw me and the result has been 80/20. I’d say 80% believed allergies, 20% knew I was covering for crying. But, I think that 20% may also be relative to the situation – getting yelled at or screwing something up versus just stress.
a.k.
Not sure about preventing it, but throw some visine and a concealer with green undertones (to cancel out any facial redness) into your bag. And be proud of yourself! Congrats on getting to this milestone!
Famke
I have no advice on what to do if you do start crying, but what I am going to say may help prevent it. It’s something I have learned as a performing artist, and I have applied it to other areas in my life.
Between now and then, take some time, close your eyes, and try to visualize your OA. Don’t think about the specifics of the case and the difficult questions you may get, but focus instead on the mechanics. Think of yourself standing up, walking to the lectern, looking the judges in the eyes, and starting your argument. Allow yourself to feel the nerves (shouldn’t be too hard) and then imagine conquering them. Take a deep breath, straighten your back, do whatever you need to do. Tonight, before going to sleep, do the same thing. If you can, repeat on your way to court. Then clear your mind for a bit until the argument. You may want to go to the bathroom, look at yourself in the mirror, and tell yourself you can do it.
This technique has helped me deal with stage freight and get to the point where I want to be when performing. Facing up to your nerves is really part of your preparation, just as much as re-reading the briefs and thinking about the case. Lastly, realize that it’s good to have some nervousness.
Good luck, this is an awesome opportunity and you are going to be amazing!!!! Please do report back.
Anon 3L
This is great advice. I’ve found that I am more nervous about the mechanics of my body than the actual argument I am about to make. Knowing what to do with my body, and both practicing it and visualizing it, has definitely helped lower my stress for OAs.
Hel-lo
When I’m about to cry, and I think about that fact, then it makes me cry. But I can kind of psych myself out of it.
Like, if I think, “Don’t cry! Don’t cry!” then I cry. But if I focus on something else, not an emotion, like, “This podium is made of *very solid wood*” or “I can’t believe opposing counsel is still trying to bring up that dicta as precedent!” then I don’t cry. It’s kind of like distracting my emotions. I don’t let myself freak out.
Until after… at home or at the bar, when it’s ok to collapse and feel all those emotions you pushed away earlier.
Good luck!
Miriam
I read somewhere that if you feel yourself crying, look at a bright light. Not sure if it works, but could be worth a shot.
Bewildered
(re-posting from late yesterday at the suggestion of several folks – I’ve also added a couple of notes to the bottom).
Need some perspective from the overachieving chicks here:
How do you decide when enough is enough?
I feel like I am hitting the breaking point with my job. I am so frustrated and feel like I am throwing all of my soul into this job with no real outcome. I am being asked to work longer and longer hours, and no matter how much I work someone else wants a piece of me. I can not even get on top of my email box to figure out what I need to do, much less do it. It wasn’t always like this, but I fear that the company culture is changing and if I am willing to try to be a superhero, the company will suck it out of me until I just have a nervous breakdown. On top of 12-14 hour days, I frequently get back out of bed in the middle of the night to work.
I do nothing anymore except work, it seems. I no longer have the energy to work out or spend any time with my friends. Feeling like I want to go to bed at 8pm doesn’t help that either. I can’t even fathom that Christmas is coming soon & likely will try to skip the whole thing this year.
I came to this company on a lateral move 5 years ago, and have advanced somewhat, but I fear that if I go elsewhere it will be another lateral move and an overall setback for my career.
I like the company (in theory) but I hate this situation that I am in.
I have no local peers that I can discuss this with. I generally have a good relationship with my boss, but he is located overseas, as is everyone else I work with (I sit in a big local office and do teleconferences all day).
I have taken 5 vacation days this year (1 week in August). I have 3 planned between Christmas and New Years. I tried to take 3 additional ones the week before christmas and was told to book them, but to expect to only take 1. (Since cancelled as I have to go on a trip). The other people in my team (my direct peers overseas) are always sure to take their 35+ days per year.
Am I losing it, or do I just need a day off?
I am tempted to do something I might regret later. (by this I mean: quit my job in a rash moment or say something to the CEO that can’t be taken back)
Will anyone hire me while I am committed to an advanced degree program which takes me out of the office 1 day every 2 weeks? (I was coping better this term when I had classes than I am now, sadly).
Govvie
Does your manager realize that this is going on, or is she just as busy as you are? I’m sorry about what you’re going through and can’t say I’ve ever been where you are, but it does not sound sustainable. I think you need to make your manager aware of the hours you are working and work with her toward a solution (hire assistance, move certain responsibilities to someone else, etc). I think it’s always best to try to change your situation at your present place of employment than to jump ship and head elsewhere.
Diana Barry
Ditto. You can start responding to requests that you do XYZ work by saying “I’m sorry, I’m swamped right now. I won’t be able to work on this until next Wednesday and can get it to you next Friday. Is that time frame good for you?” or something like that. And ask your boss for triage help – which projects are more important, what are their plans to hire someone to help you with your workload (or their plans to lower expectations that you won’t get everything done right away), etc.
Hang in there!
Bewildered
I think my manager does realize this is going on. He works longer hours than I do (which makes it pretty hard to complain about workload – not much sympathy there). There is no one else to transfer the work to and no plans to hire additional staff.
Alot of my job is response driven – if a customer needs an answer today, tomorrow might do, but next week is not ok. If I don’t respond quick enough, I just get second and third requests for the same information, followed by an escalation to my boss or his boss (or I get cut out of key decisions due to office politics)
When I complained about having calls scheduled routinely at 6AM, the response was to “get used to it”.
I don’t think I can approach anyone else in the company right now without bursting into tears. I don’t even know what to say to ask for. A day off will just put me farther behind. .
Herbie
This sucks and is not sustainable. It sounds like it’s time to look for a new job. No idea if your grad program will be an obstacle.
Sydney Bristow
I mentioned it yesterday, but would it be possible to get an intern? There would probably be paperwork associated with the school to get an intern credit and would take some time to train, but he or she could probably be helpful to answer the more routine correspondence.
anon
Whoa, hang on a minute. There must be some internal resource you can start with to help manage the workload. Your boss, perhaps. Or start being more proactive/vocal about your availability, start telling people when you can have this project done by, start asking for help or pushing back (professionally and intelligently) before you near the breaking point. Make people understand that you want to work with them to meet their needs, but also that you have limited resources and need to set limits. If everyone is overseas, it may be hard for them to realize that without hearing it from you directly.
Do not up and blow up at your boss, CEO, or whomever. Do not contemplate quitting and fleeing for the hills without first trying to communicate your needs and work towards a solution. Assuming your preference is to remain employed, you need to exhaust all avenues for improving your situation and making this work, before quitting. What seems painfully obvious to you may not be obvious at all to everyone else.
Good luck!
Herbie
This is crazy! 12-14 hour days and getting up in the middle of the night to work?? Does this have to do with being in the US while the rest of your team is overseas? I think you need to come clean with your boss. Not sure how to do that or what you should say, but this cannot go on! Good luck.
Anonymous
Can you take a day off in the office? By which I mean tell everybody you’ve got to get caught up with x, y and z and won’t be taking any calls.
Then get a hold of your boss and say that you need to either set some firm boundaries (tasks you will not do or not taking any conference calls two days a week) or get an assistant.
Then you need to start talking to your boss about your career arc and advancement. (Tying this to the completion of your degree is good.)
This plan achieves three things: it gets you out from under the craziness, sets up a medium term solution for day to day tasks, and then begins to move your career forward. Work is made up of tasks, your job and your career. You have to shepherd all three.
Good luck!
CPA to be
I can’t believe I’m suggesting this, because frankly, sometimes Penelope Trunk can be a complete loon. But she actually wrote a very good (IMO) article about what to do when you are in this sort of situation. I don’t think it’s a long-term strategy, necessarily, just something you can do to get some breathing room and time to figure out what to do in the long run. Anyway, here’s the link:
http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/08/23/yahoo-column-5-ways-to-avoid-being-overworked/
Down jacket
I recently moved to Boston and would love recommendations on a warm down jacket that is not too bulky and that looks stylish. Went to Nordstrom Rack over the weekend and didn’t love anything. Specific links would be great. TIA.
Equity's Darling
I love Canada Goose’s stuff, and not all of it is super bulky, and most of their women’s longer jackets have a belt, which adds shape.
L from Oz
I tried on several Canada Goose jackets, and I agree – they’re great. Just too pricey for me, given my current location, since it doesn’t regularly get cold enough to justify something that warm.
I ended up with a belted, Northface waterproof down jacket this year, and so far it’s been excellent, since the weather has hovered about about 1C and wet lately… The belt stops the marshmallowness of my prvious down jacket, which is handy.
Diana Barry
If you want not too bulky, look at Patagonia. They have nice down that is more fitted.
http://www.patagonia.com/us/product/womens-downtown-loft-jacket?p=28600-0-111
But if cost is an issue, get one from LL Bean or Land’s End. I have the “Ultrawarm jacket” from LL Bean and it is super warm and only $109.
http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/44802?feat=509429-GN1
Honestly, everyone is running around in huge coats in the winter so it doesn’t matter if your coat is puffy or not. :)
Locomotive
Just got this – the nearly knee length jacket. LOVE it. I do think I look a teensy bit marshmallow-y but the warmth is worth it.
Ditto
Check out Land’s End http://www.landsend.com/ix/outerwear/Outerwear/Women/index.html?seq=1~2~3&catNumbers=1028~1029&visible=1~2~1&store=le&sort=Recommended&tab=7&setPageSize=72
I got the Women’s Down Chalet coat, which my sister said is good enough for the Chicago winter. I wanted the Down Commuter coat but the reviews of the loose feathers made me skeptical. Ordered it and we saw a few feathers flying around when we took it out of the package so we returned it in store.
AEK
For something a little more styled that the Land’s End/ LL Bean standards, Neiman’s last call has some from Michael Kors, Laundry, Marc, etc. Like this one: http://tinyurl.com/cjwsjmc. Good deals.
Bunkster
Not sure what your price range is, but Bluefly has some beautiful down coats, like this one: http://tinyurl.com/d954aat
And they seem to be having an amazing 75% off sale.
I’m in Boston, too. My sister gave me my beautiful wool Kenneth Cole coat from Bluefly last year.
momentsofabsurdity
Northface has some nice down coats, as does LLBean. I have friends with this who love it.
http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/65886?feat=509429-GN1
Argie
Second Lands End – also, check out what REI has for brand selection, since they will have several of the warmer brands (The North Face, Marmot, Patagonia).
You’ll want something that covers your butt (it just keeps you warmer), and look for down compartments that run on the diagonal for not looking bulky.
The fact is, though, you are going to have some puffiness since that’s the way down works, but you can absolutely find something that won’t make you look like a shapeless marshmallow.
formerly northern new england
I have an ISIS long down jacket (I think it’s called the Snow Queen). You should be able to find it at REI, Sierra Trading Post, or Backcountry.com, and you might be able to find last year’s jacket at a discount.
I like the jacket because it seems somewhat structured, so it has a little shape instead of being a giant coat of puffiness–the pocket placement might help with this, too. It is really warm–I feel like I’m wearing a sleeping bag when I wear it. The sizing also works well for me. I think it might run a little small, because I usually wear a 6, but sized up to an 8 in the jacket because I have insanely long arms, and the fit is pretty good (sometimes if the arms fit, I feel like I’m swimming in the rest of the jacket, but not with this).
I also have a short, lighter weight down jacket in the same brand that I got for $95 from ideeli last winter. The fit is the same (arm-to-torso issue).
formerly northern new england
here is the Isis snow queen: http://www.backcountry.com/isis-snow-queen-2-down-coat-womens?CMP_SKU=ISI0242&MER=0406&CMP_ID=SH_FRO001&mv_pc=r126&003=7162907&010=ISI0242-BK-S8&mr:trackingCode=970630A4-41D1-DF11-A880-001B2163195C&mr:referralID=NA
Backgrounder
Northface Metropolis Parka. Great for Chicago winters!
Batgirl
This is random, but I want to start a little book club of sorts–but I want a fun theme. Any ideas? I’d read in The Happiness Project about a children’s book club–for example, reading A Wrinkle in Time as a group. That’s one idea I’m considering because I like the idea of a fun, childlike read that we’d all have time for.
Anyone else ever been in a book club? How often do you meet? Any problems to be aware of? Thanks!
AnonInfinity
I’m currently in a book club, and I absolutely love it. We don’t have a theme — we just take turns picking. There’s a specified order for our turns because a couple of members would pick every month if everyone would let them. We usually meet once a month, though it’s about every 6 weeks around the holidays and in the summer sometimes.
We’ve had a “problem” of people not finishing the book, but that’s not much of a problem for my group because we have the understanding that those who read will talk about the book and spoil it for everyone else, and it’s just too bad if you didn’t get to finish. Usually about 2/3 of the group has finished, so it works just fine. The bigger problem that manifests itself sometimes is that a couple of members try to dominate the conversation every time. It’s fine for most of us, but you can tell that there are hurt feelings every now and then when someone feels like they don’t get a “turn.”
Annie
My bookclub meets once a month, each woman hosts one month and prepares dinner and wine. We had too many people for a little while – cooking for 12 after work is much easier than cooking for 20. I highly recommend book club!
nev
I think it’s a good idea to have a general theme for a book club – that way members know what kind of books to suggest or expect.
The book club I’m in is also very relaxed about actually reading/finishing the book, and has made it a point to plan something together every month whether we have a specific book or not.
Julie
My book club became so relaxed about actually selecting and reading the books that we christened it the faux book club. (One of our member’s 80-year-old mom saw this somewhere and pronounced it the fox book club, so now of course we’re the foxes.) Saying you’re at book club sounds better to the SO than saying you’re just going to drink and eat with the girls, which is what we mostly do. The group is both supportive when that’s what someone needs and a lot of fun to be with — the foxes have become essential to my mental health.
We keep saying we’ll get serious again about reading, and maybe we will. What worked best for us was scheduling in advance (about once a month), with the host picking the book (subject to vetos if there are extreme objections) and getting the list out so that everyone could have time to read by the designated date.
Margaret
I’m in a nonfiction book club organized by my local alumni association, and I LOVE it. We are meeting tonight in fact. We meet once a month. Three things to think about are choosing books, limiting size, and controlling conversational flow.
1. Choosing books: We have people submit ideas for books and then vote online for most popular picks, and we redo it every 3-4 months. (I’ve heard of other groups take turns having one person nominate three books, and the group vote among those three. I think this would be a great system and has distinct advantages over just letting each person choose without any input, unless you’re all totally on the same page.)
2. Size: I think you want ~5 engaged people discussing each time. For us, this means our group has 8-10 regulars. That’s perfect. Those who haven’t finished the book often still come and contribute.
3. Controlling conversation: We get along well, and haven’t needed a moderator, but some groups have a “conversation leader” — which might be a good idea for the first couple meetings regardless, until everyone knows each other — to come up with convo topics, keep the discussion moving, make sure no one dominates the conversation, etc.
AnonInfinity
I think that #1 definitely has to do a lot with the personality of the group. One mission of ours is to expose everyone to books they wouldn’t normally read, so I enjoy the fact that one person has unilateral control over what we read. One of our members wanted to poll the others before her first pick, and everyone made it very clear that she had to decide herself and it didn’t matter whether anyone else thought they’d like the book. But, for the clubs that like having a theme or that don’t know each other that well, I think the voting option could be fun.
Anonymous
The Westing Game
NDR
I, too, was in a book club in which most people didn’t finish the book by the time of the meeting (usually monthly or every 6 weeks). We remedied this by switching to books of short stories and essays for the most part. Even if you didn’t finish the whole book, you could contribute, and there were no ending spoilers like would happen with novels.
The best book club I was ever in (conversation-wise) consisted of members who didn’t know each other well (only knew our host/founder). It was great because none of us knew each other well enough to take any comments particularly personally. The more we got to know each other, the more strained it got, though.
momentsofabsurdity
Hi ladies! Sorry for the threadjack and the repost – I posted this yesterday but it only made it out of moderation late at night. I got a couple of responses (thanks!) and wanted to see if anyone else had suggestions.
I’m looking for recommendations on websites or books or articles where I can get some boiled down and basic information about student loans and graduate school financial aid.
I was accepted to an MBA program in my senior year of undergrad and deferred for a couple of years. I was in the fortunate position not to have any loans, and I’ve never been in significant debt. I am now a year and a half into my work at a startup and while the experience has been invaluable, the pay has been fairly low. I expect the degree to be financed primarily with loans and institutional grants, and know that what little savings I have will be a drop in the bucket.
I’ve been trying to get prepared in advance of the actual financial aid package, so I know how to best evaluate it. However, so much of what I’m finding seems complex and overwhelming and if anyone has a suggestion of a resource that will help me get the basics down before going into really advanced specifics (what I keep finding) that would be very helpful.
entiredaysofabsurdity
What are the top four questions you have about financial aid? I used to work as a college access counselor and could point you in the right direction. Given that you’re posting on Corporette, I know already that you are bright and well educated, and if you narrow it down, I’m happy to help.
momentsofabsurdity
I am basically trying to figure out several things:
1) What’s an ideal loan term? Obviously the quicker you can pay off loans the better, but I also am leery of choosing too short a loan term in case there is some sort of catastrophic event that limits my ability to make high payments.
2) Federal vs. private loans. From what I understand, you can finance up to the cost of attendance with a mix of Federal Direct and DirectPlus loans. Yet most people seem to have a mix of government and private loans. Is this a school determination or a decision I’ll have to make myself?
3) I understand my parents information won’t be included in the expected financial contribution because I am 24/not a dependent (this is good because if it were, I likely would not be eligible for aid at all!). The school says they expect me to contribute based on a percentage of my income from the previous three years (one of which I was a senior in college and made fairly little), but don’t say the percentage. What should I expect — or does it vary by school?
4) My parents have generously offered to help out if the terms of the loans offered are untenable. However, I’m not even sure what’s realistic to expect (ie, what is not vs what is doable). Obviously, student loans have a much higher interest rate than say home mortgages – but what is a standard interest rate that I ought to have as a hardline I wouldn’t want to go above? At what point do the terms of a loan become unreasonable (to the point where I would end up taking a loan from my parents and repaying with minimal interest)?
Thanks!
Cat
On point 1, remember that you can always overpay longer term loans — my law school loans are on the 20 year schedule if I pay the minimum, but my goal is to be done with them in the next two years (or by 5-6 years out).
momentsofabsurdity
Thanks! That’s good to know, I didn’t realize you could overpay towards the principal, I thought it would just be applied to future monthly payments since that’s what happened to my friend — she overpaid then got a letter saying her next payment wasn’t due for six months.
Cat
There’s a checkbox when you submit your payment (at least on my loans) that you have to select to have the overpayment go towards principal. I have heard horror stories of some lenders not appropriately allocating overpayments, so if you do go that route, be watchful on your next statement that the money went where it should!
entiredaysofabsurdity
First, http://www.direct.ed.gov/calc.html is very helpful for figuring out rates and what your monthly payment would be. You’re looking at 7.9% and 6.8% on your federal loans, so you would know what to compare your private loan offers against.
Second, go ahead and choose a short repayment term (although you don’t have much choice with gov’t loans anyway). If something happens after school, you can always do a forbearance, an extended repayment plan, or an income-based repayment plan.
Third, if your parents are willing to lend you the money, formally and in writing, that’s a great thing to take advantage of to whatever degree you are comfortable with. In today’s economic world, don’t take out a student loan just to show you are independent if you have any better alternatives.
If you can borrow money from your parents at a lower interest amount, you’ll not only do better in terms of repayment, but you also won’t show up on a credit report when you have graduated and are trying to buy a house or car. If the interest rate is something that’s beneficial for them (say, three times what they can make in a money market account up to a high of 6%), then everybody wins!
Gov’t vs. private loans: that will mostly be a school decision. Once you submit your financial information, they’ll let you know that you are eligible for gov’t loans up to a certain amount. You may then choose PLUS (in some circumstances) or private loans to fill the gap between that amount and actual cost of tuition. Generally speaking, parent loans are better than government loans which are better than private loans.
Percentage of income – it will vary by school. It’s not a set percentage of income, but graduated, like income tax. So, if you made 30K last year, you might only be asked to contribute 10% of that amount each year, but if you made 90K last year, you might be asked to contribute 25% of that amount each year. Obviously, this makes a huge difference.
I hope this helps!
momentsofabsurdity
Thanks so much! That is so helpful, you have no idea. I am unsure about the parental loan – my parents are in their late 50s and while they can easily afford to cover any gaps or even the whole of tuition, I also don’t want to put them in that position while they’re getting close to retirement.
So I’m assuming once the new year hits and I can start filing taxes, etc, I’ll be eligible to fill out the FAFSA and the forms for financial aid. So then the school decides what types of loans/grants I am eligible for — and then I separately apply for a DirectPlus to cover the difference? Or is the DirectPlus offered with the financial aid package including institutional grants, Staffords, etc?
jobsearch
First, I love this jacket. Love it, and at my current job I would love to spend all day in this, dark shirt and pants, and a coordinating necklace.
My husband has been offered, and we agree he should accept, a job for a new position being created in his company that is a definite promotion, but involves us moving to a new, smaller city about 8 hours away for a new office opening. I’m ready for a change, too, and this would begin in 3-4 months. The city population is around 75,000 people, and it looks like the largest 5-6 firms have about 45-50 attorneys each. We don’t have any friends or family in the area, and I really don’t have any personal connections. I’ve never used a recruiter before and I don’t know anything about the process. I’d love to hear from anyone who has worked with a recruiter. Are they only in major cities and only do very large firms? I’m a pretty strong candidate – good recommendations, top 10% in a top 30 school, law review, etc. Does anyone have advice on whether a recruiter would be helpful in this type of situation, and what the process of working with a recruiter is like?
eh230
Have you done things like scour your linked in, facebook and alumni connections? I think it is difficult to find a recruiter in a city that small. I was considering relocating to an area bigger than that and did not have much luck with recruiters. You may also find that the recruiters for that city cover a large portion of the state. As such, they may not be intimately familiar with your city.
If there is contact information on the firms’ websites, why not contact them directly?
P
I agree with the suggestion to contact them directly – if it’s a small city and they don’t have a ton of big-name grads heading there, it’s very likely that the larger firms will be interested in at least talking to someone with your credentials and experience.
Anon
Recruiter are great, I’ve worked with them before, but in smaller markets, in a bad economy, I bet a lot of firms won’t want to pay the fees. For my 2 cents, in additional to a recruiter, scour the websites of all the firms in the new city that you would be interested in working for for people who went to your law school. Then, I would reach out to them, explaining you are moving to town soon and interested in “learning more about the local bar” and would they be available for an informational interview/coffee/lunch. Also, reach out to your law school (doesn’t matter how long you have been out) for any contacts they might have in the city. You never know. Also contact your undergraduate alumni association for a local chapter. Join all your alumni groups on LinkedIn, if you haven’t already, and look through all you contacts’ contacts for people who are in this city and again, reach out.
LStar
In my view, a recruiter is most helpful when you are looking for opportunities to make a move, but you don’t know exactly where you want to go or what opportunities are out there. If you know that there are certain firms that you are interested in, I would recommend against using a recruiter, for several reasons.
First, if you know the firms that you are interested in, you will almost certainly be better served by contacting their hiring partner directly and expressing your interest. Generally, once a recruiter has submitted your resume to a firm, the firm is obligated to pay that recruiter a referral fee if you go to that firm within a certain number of months. If a firm doesn’t have a specific vacancy it is trying to fill, but likes the look of your resume, that’s an extra expense to the firm that could deter them from hiring you when they otherwise may consider it.
In addition, it is extremely difficult to assess as a candidate how well-connected a particular recruiter is at any given firm. I have had recruiters tell me that they are working exclusively with a firm to fill a position, and later found out this was not at all true. In many cases, recruiters are simply e-mailing your resume to the hiring partner or an HR contact … which is something that you are able to do yourself.
Finally, working with recruiters can sometimes skew the job hunt process. The recruiter’s job is to make a match, so you may find yourself in a situation where a firm thinks you are much more interested than you actually are, and you think the firm is much more interested than it actually is. You can end up wasting significant time on a bad prospect when your energy would be better spent elsewhere in your job hunt.
This isn’t at all intended to bash recruiters – I have worked with some great ones – but I don’t think a recruiter is necessary in every situation, and it sounds like yours may be one of them.
karenpadi
I think if you already know you want to target the 5-6 “big” firms in the city, you shouldn’t need a recruiter. Just send resumes to those firms.
I’ve worked with a recruiter. They are more helpful in larger markets where there is a lot of conflicting information about who is hiring and what the position is actually like. In a limited market, I don’t know what the “value-add” of a recruiter is.
The recruiter basically submits your resumes to the firms and sets up interviews. My recruiter helped me rehearse for interview questions and helped me decide between competing offers.
Ms. Basil E. Frankweiler
Hey ladies, is this dress (in black) work appropriate?
http://bit.ly/vhzHEt
EC MD
For me, no. The two issues I see with it are related: first the sheerness over the chest; secondly, the bustier shape of the solid portion on the bodice. It just doesn’t read professional to me, even with a blazer, etc for coverage.
Cat
Agree. I could see it as an office evening holiday party choice if (1) the top of the bustier hits you in the right place / doesn’t create or show cleavage and (2) it’s the kind of party where people change out of work clothes to attend.
Diana Barry
Ditto to both – makes it look more like a party dress.
Ms. Basil E. Frankweiler
Thanks, I was on the fence and unfortunately too close to the purchase to see what was right in front of me.
Lola
Also, I think it’s ugly.
Anon
why be mean, Lola?
Law Schooler's Girlfriend
My boyfriend is a 2l and is finishing up a semester this week. He’s a super smart guy (I don’t say this just because I’m his girlfriend. I hate the stereotype that if I’m not also going to law school I must be an idiot arm candy and just went to our elite small liberal arts school for an MRS degree. But that’s for another time.). He’s having trouble with law school exams, doesn’t know how to study for exams, can’t figure out the dang “method” for papers, etc.
Yet his professors have told him that he is “beyond” these other kids. He’s a big picture kind of guy and can rattle off a lot of important things other students completely miss. He makes connections so quickly and is probably the best oral arguer I’ve ever met. He knows these things about himself, acknowledges his skills, etc.
But still his confidence is completely shot because his grades don’t reflect this at all. Law school is rough, I know, but I have no idea how to help him get through this. Or if I even can, really. It’s to the point now that any encouragement I try to give is met with really negative comments about himself. A large part of it is that he was always at the top, always regarded as the smartest and best so I’m sure that’s got a lot to do with it.
I know that finding a job after school is mostly networking, which we’re constantly working on, but he’s super stressed about that already and he’s still got a year and half to go!
Do you guys have any tips? I hate seeing him constantly beating himself up but I know law school kind of does that to people.
LMo
First, he is not in an uncommon situation. Law school sure didn’t think I was the best or brightest, I’ll tell you that much. Have him read “Getting to Maybe” – it tells you how to write an exam and deal with law school. My law grades were awful, and it was mostly because I didn’t know how to address the questions correctly. He has enough time to pull up his GPA. That will do a lot for his self confidence and the jobs/networking/etc. will follow once he feels like he’s smart again.
KK
This happens to a lot of people in law school. You could encourage him to pursue moot court, trial team, etc- extracurriculars that emphasize and build his best skills.
However, I have to say, in the nicest possible way, the best thing for you to do might be nothing at all. Law school is a high pressure, competitive bubble as it is and one of the nicest things about dating someone who isn’t in law school is that it helps keep that pressure from invading your home life. By trying to encourage him, you might be, in his mind, only adding to the pressure he already feels. Let him vent to you if he needs to but just listen. Otherwise, don’t bring up law school at all. Try to encourage him to do the other things he enjoys that remind him of who he is and what is important in life (catching up with friends from undergrad, joining a rec sports league, trivia night at the bar, whatever).
This is just from my perspective, of course, but it would have drove me crazy if my non-law school boyfriend had tried to help with my law school problems. It ruins the fun of not dating other lawyers/law students.
Law schooler's gf
Kk- Totally true. He is happiest when he doesn’t even think about law school at all! I guess I need to refocus on this and be his law-free person but listen when he needs to get it off his chest and make sure I’m not putting any more pressure on him than he is already swamped with.
Lmo- Thanks for the suggestion on the book!
karenpadi
I’m in patent prosecution where an engineering or science degree is required before going to law school. Honestly, as engineers, we all had horrible law school grades. Engineers think differently that law professors, and that is reflected in law school grades. So we expect candidates to not have incredible grades.
Frankly, we put a lot more weight on the candidate’s writing sample than we do on GPA. If someone has a so-so GPA but a great writing sample, he’s likely to get an interview. So if he’s submitting resumes, I’d advise him to make sure his writing sample is stellar.
Law schooler's gf
That’s a good thing to know. What type of things do you look for in a writing sample? What makes an applicant a keeper?
Nonny
I totally feel for your boyfriend. Law school was not my high point either. The trouble is that everyone who goes to law school was at the top of their undergrad class, the top of their secondary school, etc., and is used to being seen as a high achiever. Then all of a sudden they are in a situation where *everyone* is like them and they have to struggle to get to the top, where perhaps they never had to before. Their entire worldview gets shaken up, and that doesn’t even take into account the amount of brainwashing that occurs at law school. At least that was my experience, and it was really, really difficult, and, frankly, scary.
My best advice, honestly, is to support him in whatever way he needs – e.g. drilling him for exams if he asks, making coffee for him when he is up late at night, etc., but don’t turn into another law school student. As KK said, he may need his home life to be a refuge away from the pressures of law school. Your most important job may simply be to make home a “safe” place for him.
I can say, though, that for many people it passes. I found my third year to be a great experience, partly because by then I had summered somewhere and knew I liked the practice of law much better than law school itself, and also because finally I was taking courses in which I had a genuine interest. The old law school maxim is that in the first year, they scare you to death, in the second year they work you to death, and in the third year they bore you to death. The good news is, you are now more than half way through.
Law Schooler's gf
Nonny- It’s really encouraging to know that he’s not alone feeling this way. Of course I “knew” this getting into it but it doesn’t make it any easier during the process.
I’m sure the added pressure that I relocated and gave up my career of choice for him to work in a not so great job doesn’t help. I try not to focus on that with him but it’s part of the relationship so it inevitably comes up on occasion.
But with this advice coming back with a resounding opinion of being a non-law outlet for him, this seems like the route to continue on further. And probably the one that will work the best for him.
Thanks so much guys!
MelD
My 1L year was awful, but my 2L/3L years are quite good. I assume he doesn’t have his grades for this semester just yet, so I don’t think he should necessarily freak out. I had a lot of classmates who had experiences similar to mine. Once you reach 2L, you are taking classes that should have some level of personal interest. I think the best thing to do is to tell him that his law school grades have nothing to do with his intelligence level. I know a lot of extremely bright people who didn’t get great grades in law school, and know just as many who did really well but didn’t have much going for them.
Law Schooler's gf
He’s got one back right now but isn’t looking at it till he’s finished his last exam.
Problem is more that he’s allowing his grades to be the definition of himself. He *knows* he’s smarter than what his grades indicate and feels that his intelligence doesn’t translate over on to the “law school scale”. He’s a square peg and law school has got him thinking being a square peg is simply no good.
It’s translating over doubt that he should be a lawyer on occasion. We both know that the law is the best place for him because he’s obsessed with it and is the best use of his skills. I try to tell him this and build up his confidence of reminding him what he is good at and why he got into this, things he already knows, but law school has him second guessing it all.
I’m garnering from here that it’s normal for this to happen(?).
formerly northern new england
I was going to say something along these lines. If your boyfriend is finishing the first semester of 2L, all he’s known are the horrors (in my opinion) of 1L classes and exams, which I would not use as a basis to conclude that he cannot write a law school exam.
It’s also true that grades just don’t ever accurately reflect comprehension and intelligence level for some people, but I wouldn’t write off the possibility that he starts doing better with exams and papers after 1L.
Anon
If his school has a clinical program, you might encourage him to do it and max out the number of credits he can use in the clinic. This will probably help raise his GPA (not that clinics are easy, they are in fact a ton of work. But, I think they are really great for students who are not good exam writers but otherwise have the makings for being an excellent advocate).
Kelly
So someone from another department just put a form w/ my SSN in whole on it in interoffice mail w/o a confidential envelope, it was opened by admin staff in my department and put in my open mailbox. I don’t know the last name of the woman who did this, but know her department head’s name. I feel a little bad going right to a department head about this, but a department who deals with this information needs to take more car! Any suggestions how to go about this?
Anonymous
Ask your boss to talk to that boss– no names. You might look up your company’s policy on info security, which I’m sure address this, to make it easy for boss and to keep discussion impersonal.
Jill
Please forgive the threadjack. I need some serious help with a wardrobe dilemma!
This Sunday evening, I will be attending a Christmas party hosted by the mother of my relatively new boyfriend (of three months). His mother lives about an hour away, so I have not met her yet. I’ll also be meeting my guy’s college-age daughter, his brother, and several other family members for the first time.
I’ve asked a few questions and am told this event is “casual” and will involve dinner. My guy is pretty casual himself and I anticipate that most people will be in jeans, etc. Both of us are in our early 40s and have been married before (in other words, we’re not kids).
So … what to wear? I’m thinking dark skinny jeans, ballet flats, a pretty blouse, and either a bright yellow v-neck cardigan or a deep purple velvet blazer. Another option: cozy sweater dress with tights and boots.
I’m probably overthinking things–but I want to be sure to show the appropriate respect for the occasion without being uncomfortably overdressed (or look like I’m trying too hard).
Thanks in advance for any advice!
Gooseberry
Jill- Both of these outfits sound perfect for the occasion — dressed up without being dressy. (And, for me, of the two tops for the skinny jeans, I like the blazer.)
I cringe to think that I am about to pull out advice from Annie, but let’s face it, it’s true: you’re never full dressed without a smile. I think what your boyfriend’s mother and daughter will be looking for is whether you are a good match for him, and whether you are a kind/friendly/easygoing person that they will want to share a meal with again in the future. So, wear whatever makes YOU feel pretty, confident, and comfortable. And then shine!
Have a great time at dinner!
Nonny
Seconded, and total snaps for the Annie reference!
Jill
Gooseberry and Nonny, thanks for the good (and encouraging!) advice.
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