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Workwear sales of note for 3.24.23:
- Ann Taylor – 40% off everything
- Athleta – 20% off shorts, swim, linen & more
- Banana Republic Factory – 40% off everything; extra 15% off purchase
- Boden – Up to 50% off
- Brooks Brothers – Clearance styles to 70% off. Some pretty serious markdowns!
- Express – 40% off dresses & tops
- J.Crew – 25% off your purchase; up to 50% off special-occasion styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 50% off everything; extra 15% off 3 styles; extra 20% off 4 styles; extra 50% off clearance
- Sephora – Up to 50% off select beauty
- Talbots – 25% off select styles; 25% off markdowns
Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
- What are your favorite parts of a typical day?
- At what point in your life (age, income level, whatever) were you able to take an annual vacation?
- What shoes can I keep at the office to go for mid-day walks (that go with everything)?
- How do you release stress or trauma that’s stored in the body?
- What are the best “networking for women events” you’ve ever been to?
- I feel like we’re burning through any savings we acquire…
- I hate my job and make 30% of what DH makes – should I quit?
- What do you keep in your office?
As a 2L who is NOT on law review, I was tempted not to get this dress on general principle, but I love it. I unfortunately do NOT accessorize it with the ever-stylish Bluebook, but rather with purple.
Love the dress, but not sure if it might be too short for work. Seems like it might be straddling the sexy schoolgirl look a bit too closely.
This. I think it’s a bit too “themed” for professional wear.
Agree. Thinking about how I would fix this to make it appropriate — definitely drop the hemline (by about 3″ on my petite self, maybe more for others), wear it unbuttoned, perhaps with a noticeable necklace (hopefully there is an appropriate height button to do so) and put a belted cardigan over it.
I think the proportions of this look are a little off to begin with, making the skirt look even shorter (even if you are short enough that this would be an office-appropriate length) — that may be what’s giving it the costumey/flirty vibe.
Agreed. I am not a big fan of the two-fabric looking dress anyway. The fabrics are not likely to wear the same and might pull etc. at their seams.
Anon in DC
I agree that the proportions are odd, but I’ve actually found that dresses proportioned like this work well for me. I have short legs and things with higher waists tend to elongate them nicely.
That being said, the length still might be a little short for work and, while the length would probably work for other locations (meaning it’s not so short it’s generally vulgar, just too short for a professional setting), I can’t see myself wearing this elsewhere. So I guess it’s a no for me.
I do love ModCloth, though!
Anon in NY
Wear to work? Seriously? This looks like something one of our young interns would think is appropriate though it screams “costume” to me.
And is anyone else seeing a surge of girls this winter thinking that black tights suddenly make it ok to wear mid-thigh length skirts? Maybe its just my office but I still don’t think adding black tights to a skirt magically makes people not notice that your outfit is not office-appropriate.
I blame magazines for this; they all seem to think that tights cover a multitude of sins (and they do, generally), but a too-short skirt is never rendered 5″ longer by a pair of opaque tights. Magazines also advocate for wearing your frilly thin summer dresses all year long with tights, cardigans, and boots to make them winter appropriate. As a student, I think it’s appropriate, but never at work.
I’ve seen it. And it’s not even “girls,” it’s people old enough to know better (but not so old enough to be so high up in the chain of command that it doesn’t matter what they wear).
I like these suggestions- takes away from the costume feel. I still think I’d skip it for the office.
I can see wearing it out to dinner in the summer with a bakelite bracelet and colorful flats. Or maybe to a vintage-themed bowling alley.
While I don’t condone wearing a way too short skirt with tights, I do think that there are some skirts that are an absolute NO without tights, but can work with them. I’m talking about a skirt that is 1″ above the knees and not one that is 4″ above the knee. Specifically, I have two skirts that I will not wear with bare legs, but will wear with black tights.
Anon in NY
Tom – I totally agree with you about it making *some* skirts more work appropriate. And 1″ inch above the knees is totally acceptable IMHO.
I see it most in my office among the younger women/interns and with skirts that are a good 3-4 inches above the knee. This also tends to be the group that staggers around in high-heels during snow storms and thinks that a cardigan magically makes a flimsy sundress work appropriate ;) … I think HR may soon be sending out some guidelines around this as the partners have been noticing and commenting on the trend.
Uggh. it doesn’t effect you so stop judging and complaining. Maybe the interns outfit is ok with the company, just not with judgmental prudes like youselves.
I am sooo sick of the prudes on this site complaining about innnocent, not affecting them in the least way things. So she wears a midthigh skirt with tights. If you dont write the company policy and she’s an intern and she can wear heals in the snow, then you have no say.
an… the whole point of this blog is about dressing in a way that presents yourself professionally and your outfit says what you want it to say. Obviously everyone is free to dress however they want as long as its within the dress code, the interns can scamper around showing cleavage and thigh high skirts til the cows come home if they want to. The point of this blog is to point out certain fashion do’s and don’ts, and its up to the individual to decide whether to follow it or not. I love getting this information, its exactly the kind of information an intern or young woman professional should be getting.
As an aside, I know that there is some disagreements in the comments and there are occasional cat fights and occasional b*tchy behavior, but in general reading this blog for the last two years, I have learned so much, and it has come at the perfect time in my career, as I am in law school getting ready to graduate. A few times I have emailed Kat and she has wrote back privately with a few suggestions, and I have learned a lot from the commentators, from clothing to negotiations to general tips on professional behavior. I’ve also read many threads where a woman has come with a personal problem, and the fact that some commentators take the time out of their day to write long personal responses telling the person hey you’re not alone, I have dealt with this problem to, and I have come out the other side better for it. I think its pretty remarkable that in an internet age where commentating seems to be rapidly becoming uncivilized that there are as many bright positive accomplished people as there are here willing to give advice.
I wholeheartedly agree with so much of what you wrote. My problem is with those that consistently take something that is boderline and profess from atop their high horse that those that partake in the behavior, dress, ect. are completely unprofessional.
I wear skirts above the knee with black tights all the time. My skirt is neither tight nor too short. Or my skirt is tight and below the knees in a retro way. In addition, I regularly wear 4″ heels (gasp, even in the snow), wear perfume, love a dark lipstick sometimes, and will wear a consistent navy blue nail polish on my short manicured nails.
I guaratee I look professional and polished, just with a little edge/style that does not make me look like a clone from J.Crew and brooks brothers boring yuppy baby. And lately, I feel this self-proclaimed Goddess of all things office appropraite has gotten out of hand on this blog. For example, look at the perfume wearing at work comments or the short booties threads of the last week or two.
Wear what you want to work ladies.
I’m a biglaw midlevel associate who just likes to have some style. Just because I do not dress like you does not mean I’m unprofessional. In fact, I get complimented all the time at work as on of the girls who actually wears some color and cute dresses. God forbid a beige monster calls me unprofessional for my lack of khacki colored pencil skirts.
I think it really just depends on your end goal. If your end goal in working is to have the “power” of being able to dress daily to express yourself, being through navy nail polish and chic-though-above-the-knee skirts, then you should find an employer who is fine with that. And wear them with pride.
If your end goal is to find an employer who will take you seriously enough to promote you over a number of male candidates, give you the corner office, power to hire and fire, a healthy paycheck on top of it, and inclusion in the firm/corporation’s strategic business decisions, then you’re probably going to have to work around the impulse to wear the types of clothes and accessories most commonly associated with teen/tweens.
Of course, there will be exceptions to the rule, but for most women, there’s a huge band of tolerance for “girly” behavior and dress at the lower levels of an organization (where most of the female employees are, actually) that shrinks considerably as you rise in the ranks. It really just depends on (a) what you can pull off – not while not getting fired – but while getting promoted as quickly and profitably as your male colleagues, and (b) what your personal priorities are.
If I have to wear beige shoes and pantsuits to have a say in the big decisions and retire comfortably at a normal age, I’m more than happy to do so. I can paint my nails purple and wear miniskirts Friday night through Monday morning (assuming I’m not at work). And I have – it’s worth it.
Thanks, CFM. You’re absolutely right. I love this community. Thanks everyone. :)
I dont think a midlevel associate in biglaw is the bottom ranks.
Rachel, I think you are completely stereotyping the point made and in an attacking way.
hot pink nails and hates khaki senior level who just got a raise today.
Rachel in her post assumes the outfits are teenage, the goal is not to be the top dog. . .
All the talk about attacking. . . and WOW. That may be the harshest, unfriendliest post I’ve seen in a long time.
Talk about preaching from her high horse.
“I think it really just depends on your end goal. If your end goal in working is to have the “power” of being able to dress daily to express yourself, being through navy nail polish and chic-though-above-the-knee skirts, then you should find an employer who is fine with that. And wear them with pride.
If your end goal is to find an employer who will take you seriously enough to promote you over a number of male candidates, give you the corner office, power to hire and fire, a healthy paycheck on top of it, and inclusion in the firm/corporation’s strategic business decisions, then you’re probably going to have to work around the impulse to wear the types of clothes and accessories most commonly associated with teen/tweens. ”
I think that is completely uncalled for. To associate the non-brooks borthers loving clothing with settling for hte lower ranks is so disheartening that another female would think that. It’s just sould crushingly sad that women think this way towards other women.
No, Rachel is right. We’ve had this discussion here before.
There is some kind of weird pseudo-empowerment idea that young women have picked up from the media, that says real power at work is represented by the ability to wear “anything you want” to work. Like, by being “allowed” to wear “anything you want” to work, you have achieved some higher level of power and accomplishment. That means you’ve “made it.” It’s not true. What is really “empowering” is actually having power. Having power, real power, means having all the things Rachel referenced in her post – the ability to run your own show, hire and fire your own people, have a seat at the table, speak and be listened to, etc. If you can accomplish that AND wear whatever you want to work, more power to you. For most of us, there are some minimum levels of aesthetic professionalism we have to hit in order to advance.
There are a lot of women on this board who have equated, somehow, self-expression with achievement. “I wear open-toe booties and miniskirts and fishnets to work and I’m an X or Y, so that means you CAN wear what you want and still get promoted!” Nope, sorry. Getting a certain title doesn’t necessarily mean you have power, or that you are not losing out on opportunities you would have if you were a little more judicious with your appearance. In probable fact, you don’t know what you’re missing out on because no one feels the need to tell you. You can express yourself however you want, whenever you want – no problem. Just don’t be surprised when you then see people who don’t view self-expression as the ultimate positive end-goal get promoted over you. I’ve seen it happen, folks.
I too have learned so much from Kat and the commenters and as a young lawyer whose parents had blue-collar jobs I do appreciate the guidance on professional attire.
However, what I find most disheartening about the more “judgmental” comments — which can often become border-line aggressive about topics like perfume, skirt length, cleavage, tights, etc — is that they seem to reinforce a sad and divisive environment for corporate women. There are obviously enough challenges for women who are working to promote their careers and balance other interests. And it makes me truly sad to know that their are successful women in positions of power (with corner offices and the power to hire and fire) who create additional ones by silently judging those around them. Whenever I see a hiring partner or an associate comment here on how she can’t believe a summer got an offer after wearing x, y, and z to the office, I cringe. If it is something that is the result of a mistake or ignorance — like not cutting the Xs from the back of a suit — then please tell them! If it is something that is a disagreement in personal style, then consider, is this really an issue not worth hiring someone over (all other things being equal). I do think most young summers would be receptive if a superior asked them to dress more conservatively for court or when meeting clients.
Until women, especially those who have been success in their careers, decide to stop tolerating this kind of behavior we will continue to reinforce many of the ridiculous barriers that have been created for us.
Agree with anon and Rachel
There are a number of women on this blog who always pop up to complaint that the blog is judgmental. Why shouldn’t women be able to wear whatever they like? If only women weren’t so mean to the miniskirt and flipflop wearing interns, then the world would be a better place etc etc.
But let’s be honest: these women don’t want equality in the workplace, they want concessions. They want all the difficulties of misogyny gone but all the benefits kept. (That’s not gonna happen.)
Seriously, we get it. Generations of women have been told that the most important thing about them is their appearance. And too many episodes of Oprah has taught that “expressing yourself”, “being me” through your clothes is your god given right. No one tells men this stuff because they get real power. We get bright red lipstick and peep toe booties. Women who are obsessed with “expressing” themselves in their dressing are so smug, so self centered, so teenage, so pathetic in their desire to telegraph some “specialness” through the color of their tights. And they just *cannot* believe that some people get through the day without matching the shade of their panties to their mood. News flash: you are being socially conditioned. You think you are some guru – you are bought and sold by some hack in an advertising office who uses the phrase “yummy mummy” non ironically. You get as much respect as the guy in the santa ties. At least he didn’t pay $300 for them. FFS get over yourself.
If you want to get the real jobs and the promotions and be taken seriously, it’s not about dressing like men, it’s about the end of concessions because you are a woman. “I don’t look good in black. I don’t look good in gray. I don’t like high heels. I don’t like scarves. I want blue nails. I want purple hair. I don’t like suits. White blouses make me uncomfortable. I want visible tattoos. I want to follow fashion. I want to wear skinny jeans. I want to wear jangly earrings. I want to wear flipflops. I want to wear fitflops (to work). I want to wear my gym gear. I want to wear jeans. I am so special that the rules don’t apply to me. I WANT TO EXPRESS MYSELF!!!!! ME ME ME!!
This is not school. This is not your home. This is a job. Put on a god damn suit like ALL of the men in your office and get over yourself.
I’m not young and it’s been a long time since I was an intern, but I still get lots of good advice from reading this blog. I really wish something like this had been available when I was just starting out, it would have saved me from several fashion disasters. My first office Christmas party after graduating from law school comes to mind. But my point is that there is a lot of good advice here for those who want it. Some people aren’t interested, and want to wear what they want. That’s fine, perhaps they know their office environment better than anyone here can, and know they can be a little more “edgy” than some in other types of offices. For the most part, though, in medium to large law firms, the people with the power to decide who makes partner are not going to appreciate that edgy style. That’s certainly not always the case, there are always exceptions, and a lot depends on your client base, but for the most part, there are rules to dressing in a professional manner, and you are more likely to advance in your career if you follow them.
As someone who regularly watches the under 35 set of female associates in my office undermine themselves – YES to Rachel and Anon at 5:54. We have male associates who wear a blue or grey suit, button down and tie Monday through Thursday. The senior people look at them as partnership material. We have female associates who express themselves through attire. They look wonderful and their fashion sense is notable, but they are not going to be made partner in this firm because their clothes scream “I have priorities more important than my job, and one of them is being fashionable. ”
That is great if you don’t want to be a partner or if you want your complaints about staff to be overlooked, but if your career is a priority give up trying to be a fashion plate and settle for looking mature and authoritative.
I so agree with Rachel and the various anons – would have said it a bit more tactfully, maybe, but I completely agree with the sentiment.
I apologize if it comes across as “attacking” – that was absolutely not my intention. The requirements about women and how we should dress ARE ridiculous and unfair. (In fact, now that we’re off through Christmas weekend, I’m typing this with newly painted, violently blue nails and am thoroughly excited about breaking out the Frye motorcycle boots tomorrow.) But my first internship during law school was a disaster in large part due to my wardrobe and I’m thankful everyday that one of the more senior female attorneys pulled me aside and said something (which left me in tears, btw). Since switching to a daily uniform of either suit or blazer+something neutral and work appropriate, I’ve seen a massive change in the amount of respect my bosses show when they interact with me v. how they interact with some of the other female associates on my floor who are more liberal in their wardrobe choices. The other girls occasionally get the winks and smiles and flirty chatting, but I’ve gotten pulled in on the same types of cases as most of the top guys while they generally haven’t while having a good enough rapport to be the only girly girl there included in otherwise-guy-only events.
It’s not fair and it IS judgment – it’s horrible that we women aren’t always valued based on our skills and work ethic, and that it’s so easy for us to be devalued based on something as small as nail polish or skirt length. It should change and I believe that it will. But I can’t change it as a second-year associate. When I reach a position of power, I won’t “tolerate” this type of behavior – I hope and plan to be the type of supervisor who evalutates young employees based on their work alone. But I’m not there yet, so whether I “tolerate” it is completely irrelevant. The only person’s career I have the power to change or derail at this point is my own.
If anything, this is the one area where we do have some equality. Most men hate wearing ties and suits, but if the job requires it, they suck it up, wear the tie, and climb the ladder as fast as they can so they can make enough to make the tie worth it (and change the dress code). So if my employer won’t promote me when I wear mini-skirts (but is uncomfortable being as up front about the dress code for women, for whatever reason), I’m a big girl. I can wear the boring suit and save the gender battles for the important things like negotiating childcare and overcoming the “mommy penalty” on salaries.
If you work where you genuinely don’t have to worry about your appearance – and there are employers like this, I’m sure – and you are still taken as seriously as your male colleagues, then consider yourself very, very lucky (and please let me know when they’re hiring).
Thanks for your response Rachel! Well said.
Hope we all enjoy the holidays and the time off to wear what we please :)
I don’t know….it looks like a shirt fused to a skirt with a scarf wrapped around the waist trying to look like a cummerband (sp?).
What AIMS said!
Threadjack: A generous relative bought the Louis Vuitton Vernis Alma in Green Tonic last year, wore it once or twice, and is cleaning out her closet and offered to give this to me. What are your thoughts / reactions … Either for fun or in a professional setting? I’m normally not a fan of the brown / beige LV, but I’m liking these better.
Generous indeed! I love the bag and would carry it all the time if it were mine. The bag is classic, the logo is not obnoxious, and the color is great. Then again, I’m not much on sticking with boring black or brown bags for workwear.
I love green purses for spring! I would snap it up in a heartbeat and wear it to work (but not court or important client meetings)! Lovely!
I’d put it more in the fun category. I’ve wanted one for a while but I just can’t see myself paying that much for what is essentially a bag made of plastic. It’s beautiful – enjoy!
It’s a gorgeous bag, but I think shiny + bright green = more appropriate for fun than for work. That said, if it were mine I would want to carry it everywhere!
It’s fine for work if you pair it with a neutral outfit. Ignore the boring, only wear beige and black comments. Have these people never seen a stylish business woman? Seriously?
Funny you should say that! I came to work in a navy dress and chartreuse cardigan today. But I had to take off the cardigan and put on my gray “emergency” blazer when I got pulled into a meeting with people way senior to me.
When I think of the stylish business women I work with, I can’t imagine any of them carrying a bright green, patent leather, logo-embossed purse to work. But my work experience is in construction, nonprofits, and government– if your workplace is fancier than mine, who am I to judge? :-)
Did you “have to” change or just felt like “Oh no, Charteuse, the horror!!?!?!?!”
Most senior people don’t care. You just read blogs like this and the harsh comments and think “oh golly, color or style, the horror!!”
Seriously, no one would care about a Charteuse cardigan on a navy dress.
I am a junior person at a government agency that places a high value on hierarchy. Especially since I am young, wearing a cardigan in a meeting of high-level officials, all of whom are in jackets, suits, or uniforms, makes me look like a secretary who wandered in from the hall. I’ve made that mistake before– that’s why I keep the blazer at work now.
Bag would be fine in black leather. Most people’s problem is with teh color and material.
Your problem seems not about color or material, but thateveryone else in your office wears blazers or suits and you instead wear cardigans. Hence, your problem is simply you dress inappropriately for a suit office. Not that a stylish business women can’t wear color or show different material.
This bag would look great with a navy blue suit with a cream colored blouse underneath and maybe a chuncky necklace with hints of green amber in it.
See, I love the shine and the color, but I’m not a fan of anything plastered in logos, even if the logos are subtle.
OMG, I love this. Such a classy bag to accessorize your everyday work outfit or even a casual weekend one. I wouldn’t bring a logo bag or a shiny bag like this to a very conservative or formal event, but it’s so perfect for nearly everything else.
I have this in the eggplant-ish and carry it in the office. I was at a women lawyer conference earlier this year and saw several. the brighter colors might be too loud, but the bag itself is a classic.
I think the bag is super-classy…and I’ve coveted for some time now. With an otherwise appropriately classic outfit, I think it can look extremely professional. The green is a lovely color. If you’re uncomfortable carrying it, I’d be more than happy to lighten the load ;)
Cute, but not classy. Logos are NEVER classy. Sorry to the ladies above.
I’d still accept the bag with effusive thanks though! Sometimes it is fun to be a little tacky:)
you sound like an absolute JOY to be around.
Poorly done, 9. In the future, try to disagree without getting personal. Thank you.
Tangential: I don’t really care about logos one way or the other, but I do wonder why so many fewer people have a problem with these than with the Coach bags which are often called tacky on this board. It seems like a weird double standard to me (“It’s tacky to advertise you have a LITTLE money but classy to advertise you have a LOT of money”?). Or am I reading the dynamic wrong?
I don’t see the difference between Coach logos and any other sort of logo. I used to carry logo bags when I was younger and noticed that people treated me differently and assumed things about me. I didn’t like it at all, so I have since steered clear of any all-over logo-type print. I would be more wary of carrying a high-end logo bag than a low-end logo bag, in my area of the country, anyway. I do, however, see more support for the LV logo bag , compared to when we had this conversation last, and the majority of posters were not in favor of Coach logo bags. I don’t like the idea of a stranger, or someone who knows very little about my lifestyle, to be able to look at my purse and know or assume how much it costs – whether it was $300 or $3,000. Nor do I think that a logo is aesthetically pleasing.
Most people either like logos or don’t. There’s not a huge distinction between them.
That said, for logo haters like myself, there’s a big difference between a bag that has a certain beauty or functionality in it’s own right and then the logo makes a cute little accessory to it’s appearance. Versus a bag that is so pointless, average, and hideous that the only reason anyone would every actually choose THAT bag over the millions of others available would be because it screams it’s brand (and purchase price) to everyone passing.
I consider the LV Alma the first kind of bag – if you take the logo away, it’s still lovely and a gorgeous pop of color (maybe not for a conservative workplace, but everywhere else).
Of course, I’m aware that we’ll all have different opinions. It’s just a purse and not worth spending much time deliberating over. If you like it, wear it in good health!
I just don’t like tacky, over the top, screaming at me labels and logos. The LV logo on this bag is embossed in the same color as the bag and it’s pretty subtle. One of those white LV bags with multicolor LV logos, OTOH, seems tacky to me because it seems like the logo is just screaming out at me.
There are also lots of perfectly nice Coach bags.
Very generous of her! Definitely enjoy.
I think it would look lovely with a navy suit in the spring. Nice relative!
I absoluely LOVE this dress, but it looks to much like the teddy Alan gave me for my birthday.
I am SURE that Alan would questioning me if I wore this to work and he would be VERY jelous of the men that would be stareing at me if I wore this. As it is, the manageing partner takes any excuse whatsoever to come look over my shoulder (and he is BALD and has bad breath – ugh).
I do not want to give him an excuse to breath on me. Gross.
Oh Ellen, your teddy sounds soooo boring.
I agree! Way too much fabric for a teddy!
What I want to know is why the word BALD is always capitalized? WHY? FOOEY!!!!
I love to read Ellen’s posts by only reading the capitalized words.
LOVE SURE VERY BALD
Awesome! Coded messages in troll posts.
Add punctuation and it’s even better!
“Love? Sure! Very Bald. :( “
LMAO – that’s awesome :)
I do the same thing! Makes his/her posts even more entertaining!
some have suggested Ellen is a computer program, but I disagree. I think a computer would use better spelling and grammar. I stand by my original opinion that Ellen is Alan, some weird guy.
I’m beginning to suspect Ellen is Alan’s blowup doll. It kind of gives me the skeeves.
Yes! Like that movie where Ryan Gosling dates a blow-up doll and all of his friends and family play along because they think he is psychologically unstable. Hysterical.
I love that movie. When she gets a job as a mannequin….it is so priceless.
That’s such a great movie. Lars and the Real Girl. :)
“Ellen’s” comments are starting to creep me out.
I go back and forth, but I am beginning to agree with you. I also think Alan is BALD and has bad BREATH.
I would also buy someone’s suggestion that it is a man with the initials L.N.
I agree with this – I thought the AI computer theory was interesting, and grammar issues I could overlook as a programming issue, but the spelling errors resolve this one for me. No way is a computer going to make the spelling mistakes that appear in this post.
Be CAREFUL Ellen, you don’t want to wear a nice teddy and accidentally get KNOCKED UP before you get MARRIED. Then you would be RUINED.
Sorry, I’m super bored and couldn’t help myself! :)
spelled too correctly! but other than that, PERFECT.
Your managing PARTNER wouldn’t want you then, even if you overlooked his BALDness and BAD BREATH. :)
Preego Angie, I think I love you!
I think you mean – “Be careful Ellen, you don’t WANT to wear a nice teddy and accidentally GET knocked up…” Your capitalizations made way too much sense. :)
My thought – an ATL reader, male law student, to whom we are giving too much credit for being sneaky.
Most likely you’re right. One of the comments from yesterday actually made me kind of sad – picturing this lonely, scrawny little guy, alone in a darkened room, the only light emanating from his computer screen, avidly reading the comments on a women’s fashion blog …
Either that or some 300-lb pasty-white IT guy in a sweaty Star Wars t-shirt, who spends his entire day ogling the women at work who would never, ever talk to him.
Hey…I work in IT, and I am not fat & I don’t wear t-shirts!
I’ve always gotten the feeling that Ellen/Alan/LN has spent way too much of his life in his mother’s basement.
I’ll come out of lurk-dom with an FYI: There’s an “Alma” who posts on BitterLawyer about all of the men in her workplace who hit on her excessively because she’s so beautiful. FOOEY on them seems to be a trend…
Definitely. See comment 11 here: http://www.bitterlawyer.com/index.php/site/columns_detail_comment/i_want_a_biglaw_boob_job/?cat_id=2
This person has wayyy too much time on his/her/its hands.
I am SO laughing at this thread today!
Ditto. LOL. Strangest troll ever, but points for entertainment. I don’t understand it at all.
Perhaps Allen bought Ellen the less revealing teddy so he/she wouldn’t have to shave his/her back again? It that case, it was really very thoughtful of him!
Not a fan of this at all! I can’t imagine wearing this in any professional environment, to be honest. Agree with others that it looks too costumey.
Agree with others — this looks like a “sexy secretary” costume. It doesn’t look professional at all. This seems like the dress equivalent of blue eyeshadow on a girl just learning to wear make-up.
Is Siouxsie serious? Back seamed stockings *and* high heel mary-janes in an office environment…….seriously??!!
It was ModCloth (the internet store), not Siouxsie that suggested the styling, and I am pretty sure that ModCloth’s styling was NOT intended for the office.
Whoops, missed that. My apologies to Siouxsie.
Way too sexxxy secretary or librarian for work.
Ha! Great post. I actually like the dress. I think it is pretty cool that Mod Cloth thinks this is what lawyers dress and look like.
Hate how high sash comes under the bust. UGH. Boobs enter the room before you do. UGH.
This style looks great on high-waisted women. Not everything that’s an UGH on one person is an ugh on everyone else.
Ok, correction: UGH on ME :-D
I think this extremely high waisted style is unattractive on most women. It just emphasizes any pooch.
you too sound like a JOY to be around.
One girls says this look is great for her figure. You’re reply, it’s unattrative on most women. Catty undertone of “you don’t look as good as you think you do.”
You’re FABOOSH and most likely passive aggressive. Thanks for knocking your fellow man down! Have a happy holiday!
nope, someone wrote “Hate how high sash comes under the bust. UGH. Boobs enter the room before you do. UGH” then clarified that they meant UGH on them, then Bonnie replied with “I think this extremely high waisted style is unattractive on most women” to that poster. In other words, Bonnie was reassuring the woman who thought it looked bad on her, don’t worry, many women have a problem with this style. You read the replies wrong, draw a straight line down the left and you can see what is a reply for what. Happy holidays to you as well, and try to stop looking for snark and meanness, cuz I’m quite sure you’ll always find it if you want to find it. When you look on the bright side, its much easier to see there could be a good side to comments (and people).
Has nothing to do with a pooch. Has nothing to do with the boobs entering the room first comment. complete logic and reasoning failure CSM.
You’re I’m right, you’re wrong comments are most definitely not appreciated.
Anonymous at 2:49 = Ellan / Alan? That’s what I assumed.
I agree with Mrs. K. Now we have a snarky troll on this thread posting rude comments all over the place and switching up the name.
What? I’m not sure how you got that from my comment. Some clothing, e.g. white leggings, is not very forgiving and is best left to runway models. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and think that you misread the order of replies.
Anon in DC
FWIW, I am just a random person with no horse in this race, but I also don’t see where anonymous got that from your comment! (And I sometimes see snark when it’s not there/intended, so if anything, I would be more likely to view a comment as negative when it’s not.)
And I agree that there are some things that look fabulous on a small minority, but bad on most women. That’s all I took your comment to mean, even if it had been in reply to Erin M.
If this dress were separates, that is not the blouse you would wear with that skirt. I find it somewhat jarring, almost comic in effect. Like a costume for Reese Witherspoon in a movie.
I think it’s beautiful but not for the office. I also think it would be more flattering on less-busty girls.
Agreed. I have a very small chest, so it’s really hard to find a dress that looks good on me. I think this one would look good for those of us with short legs and a small chest, but not for work. So, back to the drawing board.
Way too costumey – I couldn’t wear anything with this dress to make it more work appropriate. Plus, I’m not a fan of such a stark black and white contrast – it just says uniform to me (and actually reminds me of my old school uniform – granted it was navy and white and we would have been sent home with a skirt that short).
Agree with the above commenters on fashion mags offering unrealistic advice on what’s office appropriate. Even with opaque tights, if you sit down and your skirt is halfway up your thighs, it is not work-wear for conservative offices.
On the fashion mag, note… I was kinda excited when I saw that the January edition of Lucky had a headline about work appropriate styles… then I got into the thick of it and was so disappointed. It’s not that I don’t *love* a ton of their ideas, but sadly, every single one looked either too short/ too tight OR was so quirky that I couldn’t be taken seriously,even on a non-court day, wearing any of the combinations they put together. Sad face.
Had that same reaction. In what universe are those clothes “work appropriate”? I guess maybe if you work in fashion.
I feel like they must be pitching the outfits toward, as you say fashion execs, or even just more artsy professions in general. Although, I don’t know a lot of journalists that would want to wear those outfits for fear of not being taken seriously, either, so who knows.
I always get the vibe that they’re pitching them to college girls whose 9-5 work experience consists of a couple internships and some of their summer shifts working retail a year or two earlier.
I actually had a hard time judging the outfits because they all have coats on(other than the ones where the skirt is obviously too short), but i thought they got closer to actual work outfits than a lot of similar articles I’ve seen. The one that was just pants and a button down shirt? Totally ok
I really like this dress, and I wear Mary Janes on a regular basis.
I’d skip the seamed stockings though; I grew up in a part of the city where only working girls wore those. And not the kind of working girl that reads this blog, either.
Did anyone see last night’s episode of What Not to Wear with the 25 year old law student that Clinton Kelly said dressed like a stripper in her off hours?
I am going to have to try and catch that one. Sounds hilarious. Did they suggest things that were truly law office-appropriate when they were helping her?
YES! I agreed with Clinton completely (that net-looking-cut-out-thingy-shirt, for example), but for the entire first half of the episode I thought, “What has this woman done when she has received criticism about things like her grades, her writing, etc?” If she melts down when a professional stylist tells her to get different shoes, what did she do when someone brought into question her intelligence? I seriously thought she was going to stop speaking to everyone who nominated her.
They did suggest things that were truly law-office appropriate, although they said that the suit they had was court appropriate, which I disagreed with. It was a beautiful skirt suit, very modest, classic cut, but the fabric (blue, looked a bit like denim to me but I don’t think it was) I thought made it inappropriate for court. What irked me was that they didn’t bring her to a suit store – you would think they would have brought her to a Brooks Brothers or somewhere that specializes in suits for her suits.
FWIW, she said she had never even heard of the show before, and so was taken completely off-guard by Stacy and Clinton, especially when they started throwing away her entire wardrobe. She actually left set and complained to the producers. So yeah, if you don’t know that it’s coming, they can be a bit harsh. :-)
Actually I think they were having such difficulties with her, also not wanting to be her age and “role model for the step children,” that to go to BB or another place for true, nice suits, would have started the whole avoidance of commentary snit fit.
I think that once the “nominee” agrees, somewhere, somehow, someone sits down and fully explains and there are lots of signatures and expectations spelled out. She would then “know” that they are really going to throw out clothing and insist on certain things – witness her initial “I am opposed to anything and you cannot cut my hair” stance.
Now then, not being in the Law profession, I have to ask. Is this representative of 2Ls? The entire issue of not processing information and being far from interested in anything other than becoming a “professional argue-er” really made me concerned about the future of Law when I might need an attorney to represent me well and all those of my age/generation has retired.
Yes, it’s worth watching again. My DH usually watches with me, except for the time slot move to Tuesday. I’ll have to report on whether they are wory of reruns. This one certainly is, if not for better insights into Clinton and Stacey than anything else.
Wow, just looked at the before and aftesr on the website for that episode-that was quite the lacy pink bustier she had one in the befores! I have to say, I thought the suit was perfectly court appropriate (theory, navy, conservative).
I also think someone must sit down with her and explain everything, but by the way she acted, it seemed like they forgot to explain how Clinton and Stacy can be a bit mean and not to take it personally.
No, she is not representative of all 2Ls. Law school takes all kinds. Notice how she said that she WANTED people’s first impression of her to be that she was a dumb blonde, which would make stomping on their heads in the courtroom all that much more fun for her and surprising for them? Yeah, most 2Ls (that I know of at least) would not have that logic, or at least put it into practice. :-)
NO! Not all 2Ls are like that. I immediately thought, “what law school admitted her?” That being said, there were some women in my law school class that were clearly in it (and by “it” I mean a legal career) just so they would be able to afford nice clothes, shoes, and handbags one day. Sometimes when I read this blog and analyze my work wardrobe I wonder if I focus too much on my appearance and not enough time on the substance of my career. In the end I think it is a balance because the right clothes have helped me feel confident and portray the right message in work situations.
It’s a navy blue pantsuit. It’s completely appropriate for court. What the hell are you wearing to court? Judges robes?
I was talking about the suit they had the mannequin at the beginning, when they were going over their “rules,” not the suit she was wearing at the end. BTW, the suit at the end was gray and didn’t look anything like denim.
BTW, if I were in Canada or the UK, I could very well be wearing robes to court.
Just found the pics online.
She looks a bit older than 25!
Seriously. I’m 26 and most of my female friends are in the same general age-range as me. NONE of them, nor I, have those forehead wrinkles/creases (you could see them through out the show and you can see them in picture #4 from the slideshow above). The ONLY person I know my age who has visible wrinkles/creases is a hard drinker and tanner.
She admitted during the makeup session to hitting the tanning bed frequently. Carmindy (the show’s makeup artist) gave her a lecture about the damage she’s doing to her skin.
Okay, I have to say this.
Ladies. Regardless of what you wear. The extremely dark tan/extremely white teeth/extremely bleached hair look does one thing, and one thing only. It makes you look like a stripper. Period.
It’s OK to be tan. It’s OK to be blond. It’s OK to have white teeth. When you go to the extremes on all of those things – spending more on salon hair bleaching, self-tanner/tanning booths, and teeth whitening than some families spend on food in a month – and put them all together, it’s seriously awful. Awful. This girl also looks like she’s had aftermarket accessories installed in the chestal region and that doesn’t help anything either.
I also just have to say, having watched a few clips of the episode, that it will surprise me if this girl actually ends up being a successful, cutthroat lawyer. Something about her is saying “trophy wife” to me.
And the photo on page 4 of the TLC slideshow is making me question the “25” thing. If that’s 25, those have been some hard-livin’ 25 years.
Agreed. Although a tanning bed since middle school might (MIGHT) do that to a 25yo.
I’m planning to get one of my best friends a magazine subscription for her birthday. She love O (the Oprah magazine) and I have already bought her that, but I would like to sign up for something else for her as well. She’s a doctor and has very little free time, but she enjoys fashion and I know she would appreciate this gift. I’m also open to more newsy types of magazines (Newsweek, Time, etc.).
Glamour? Marie Claire? US Weekly? What do you enjoy reading?
I’d go with something like Time, because IMO the other fashion mags’ content gets repetitive so they’re good for occasional reading, but not a subscription.
Really depends on the recipient though – I’ve given The Economist as a gift and while it’s great, it’s also very dense so not everyone would enjoy it.
SF Bay Associate
There are often subscription deals for $1/issue for the Economist. I never read the whole thing, but I do usually read half or most of it each week.
Second rx for “Economist.” I used to get it only at airports, but like the wide viewpoints so much, just ponied up for a subscription for my waiting room … the next week, the new one arrives and I take the former home to savor.
Glamour is terrible; it’s about the same as Cosmo in terms of sex tips, etc.
Allure is great with makeup and hair tips and reviews, if your friend is into that. Reviews are on new products so content always seems pretty fresh to me
Marie Claire is okay, but maybe a too much True Lives-ish
She might like Real Simple.
I’ve subscribed to Glamour since I was in high school, and still like it, if you take it for what it is – a vehicle to sell you things. But they do have more racial and size diversity in their models than most of the other magazines. I appreciate that. It has a little more substances than like People or US Weekly, but I can still escape reality a little with it. And of course, the “What to wear to work” section is completely useless, except for some far-fetched inspiration, maybe. I usually read it on plane trips.
I second Real Simple. Lucky is fun, too, probably my favorite for fashion. Vogue is always worthwhile.
Oh, and Allure has always steered me right for hair/make-up/etc.
M in CA
All the magazines I get have been gifts from other people, and I think it’s a great gift. I get the following: Cooks Illustrated, Wired, Conde Nast Traveler (because a girl needs to dream, right?), and Entertainment Weekly. I don’t read all of them religiously, but I like having them around. Also, if your friend’s city has a local magazine, she might like that. I get Los Angeles magazine 6 months out of the year when I renew my local public radio subscription (techincally not a gift, but it’s a “freebie”), and it’s always fun to read about my own hometown and learn about new things to do here.
SF Bay Associate
Sorry to chime in again. I love my Cooks Illustrated subscription. The lemon pasta from the current issue is so easy and very delicious. The Red Beans and Rice from this year is another huge winner. I also got a trial membership to online CI and downloaded a lot of recipes. I get San Francisco magazine through my NPR membership – that can be a fun read, though the advertising and articles suggest a level of income far beyond even my biglaw salary. Very pretty to flip through.
I used to get Real Simple and liked it, but I haven’t at all been impressed with the past couple years, so I ended up canceling it. I thought the recipes were too easy/boring for me personally (I’m a pretty good cook and largely cook only from scratch), though I can certainly see the appeal for those less inclined to cook. The articles after years of receiving the magazine were very repetitive. However, if recipient hasn’t been a long-time reader of Real Simple, she may enjoy it a lot. There is some good stuff in there, like a tip in one of their issues years ago about using one of those magnetic paperclip holders for bobby pins – a brilliant, simple idea I immediately adopted.
I also love Cook’s Illustrated – particularly when they review products. Combines my (secret) passion for consumer reports and data ranking with my not at all secret passion for cooking.
Have you tried the lemon poppyseed cake? Delicious.
I love reading “People” – it’s just a guilty pleasure. I also like “Real Simple” and I think someone who loves “O” might like a lot of the practical, no-nonsense advice and ideas in Real Simple. The New Yorker makes a great gift. I also like Cooking Light. I’d stay away from Time and Newsweek because these days, you can get lots of good news stories and even feature stories on-line on Nytimes.com or wsj.com, etc.
I love Veranda and Architectural Digest. There is also a ski magazine Destinations, and several travel mags, like Conde Nast Traveler, that are enjoyable. Is there a sport or hobby she enjoys that you could find a magazine for?
Vanity Fair is a good combo of fashion, gossip, and serious material. I think she’d like it.
Second Vanity Fair.
Third this. My grandma gets me VF for Christmas and I love it. I think it’s a great mix of class and substance. Also, I ]think monthly magazines are preferable to weekly magazines (especially for someone who is busy) b/c it gives you more time to get through them.
One note on VF-it’s a bit left-leaning, so it might not be as good of a fit if that isn’t your friend’s viewpoint.
Glamour and Marie Claire are nice fluff reading. I’m thinking about getting a subscription to Elle – I picked up a copy and was surprised at how much actual material it had.
Real Simple is great, agree with above recs.
In Style is awesome (more fashion oriented vs RS, which is more organization/home/etc.)
My husband gets Esquire and I love reading it more than any of the women’s magazines. Lots of great articles, travel tips, sex advice, etc, but for adults and more geared toward professionals.
I personally like reading Harper’s Bazaar. In Style is great too because it always has a great section on decorating your home and entertaining.
How old is she? If she’s over 40, she might like More. I really like it, the fashion is a little more age appropriate for over 40, and the articles are geared more towards professional women, but still pretty much fluff. I really don’t want to come home after reading cases and briefs all day, and read anything too serious.
I read Popular Mechanics, Popular Science, Discovery Magazine, Scientific American and Esquire. (I’m a criminal defense lawyer wishing I was a scientist.) Your doctor friend would likely appreciate any of these. Also Vanity Fair rocks — long, engaging articles, some substantive, others just great gossip. (I find the fashion magazines boring and fungible, although great vehicles for promoting capitalism.)
Seconding Popular Science and Popular Mechanics, they’re really good.
If you wish you were a scientist, just subscribe to Science. It’s incredible and pretty cheap for the year — $50 (comes weekly). It has much better and more up-to-date articles than Scientific American/Popular Science.
I wish I could get Nature, but it is too expensive.
Also, for the OP, I suggest Vogue. It has better articles than the other women’s magazines (i.e. Elle, Marie Claire, Harper’s Bazaar), although the covers are not very cutting edge.
Anon in DC
I really enjoy Real Simple magazine. I’ve found that, like O magazine, it’s kind of a mix of fashion, home organization, general interest, etc.
You know, I do too, except I have one gripe about it (that doesn’t stop me from buying it). So often, the tips are for a Real Simple way of doing some activity that a person trying to simplify her life would never even engage in. A simple way to make your own Christmas Cards! And Soap! And Create a Card Catalog for your home library! So you go into it expecting to have your life made easier, but you walk away with that same old Martha Stewart guilt.
I second (or third) the Real Simple suggestion. Domino is another good one for home-styling.
I think that Domino is no longer published. I liked it a lot, but haven’t seen it anywhere in probably about a year. Of course, it disappeared right when I finally bought my own house.
I like Real Simple, but agree with Anon, that IRL, I don’t have time to make my own Christmas cards, or pie crusts, no matter HOW simple the suggestions. Overall, I do like the magazine, though.
you’re right. i loved it but they stopped publishing it about 2 years ago (a little less)
I miss Domino. Elle Decor could be a nice choice.
Wow, some of the responses here today are pretty snarky. It must be the holiday stress rearing it’s ugly head.
I think many of them are from the same poster.
Or impersonators of the same poster.
PS. I’m not the original YIKES. :)
Haha. Nice name! :)
I think it’s the same poster, too. “You sound like a JOY to be around” doesn’t normally crop up twice in the same thread ;)
The problem is that I cannot tell if it is one of our peers, so someone just trying to start controversy, so best to just ignore I suppose.
Agreed, but those were in response to some very snarky comments.
I think people have been reading each others’ posts a little uncharitably this week, especially seeing comments as personal attacks when they are more likely just broad assertions.
Eh, I didn’t think they were horribly snarky and was really taken about with the “JOY to be around” comments (which seemed incredibly harsh).
I agree, I was totally thinking “Jeez, Christmas stress, eh?” about halfway through the comments above. Half day tomorrow and long weekend, yay!
I would totally wear this with some chunky necklace and top botton undone, grey tights, grandma oxford black heels, gray cardigan with a pink leather skinny belt to tie it together.
It doesn’t look too tight, since the bottom is pleated out and got reviews for covering hips, hence not accentuating them in tightness. The length issue all depends on your height.
I think it’s cute. I think those that think it’s costumey have little imagination of how to turn clothes into multipurpose use.
To each his own. But a lot of attacking for a cute dress I bet many of us could make office appropraite.
I love this styling suggestion.
anon for now...
I’m feeling a bit down career-wise, and could use a pick-me-up/some commiseration. Quick background is that I’m switching careers, going from the hard sciences (Ivy PhD) to something applied at the private-public interface…basically, trying to get to a place where I can help leverage technology advances for the greater good (I do have a specific goal in mind, but keeping this vague to be anon). But I keep hitting walls. I have not had a permanent job offer since leaving grad school (when I turned a non-ideal one down to be closer with my now husband). I’ve had, currently have, some pretty interesting, challenging, and educating temporary gigs, but I’m kind of tired of always looking for the next thing b/c my current thing is going to end. I also feel like I’m making no traction. I’m trying to augment my technical background with some management, policy, and business experience, but I feel like I can’t get ahead. Most of my job interviews have ended with my being told that I’m great and clearly smart but they’d prefer someone with more experience, or being told that they don’t want to do a real interview because I’m clearly overqualified and will get bored.
My husband keeps reminding me that the economy is bad and it’s fortunate that I haven’t been out of work despite trying to switch fields. And I know he’s right. And I also know that I’m lucky to have someone so supportive emotionally, and someone who earns a great salary at a job he loves because it allows me to be flexible and know that if I don’t love the next opportunity we can afford for me to be out of work. But we want to have kids soon, and the lack of a permanent job scares me since job flexibility is usually something you earn over time and I will soon, again, be looking for something new.
Also, full disclosure, part of this stems from recently being put in touch with someone in my organization who is younger than me, has very similar credentials (incl. some similar past experience), and has a permanent and much more autonomous position. It’s depressing to say the least.
Can you try and get one of your temporary gigs to become permanent for you? Are you expanding your network? Those are the only ideas that come to mind. I would also say that twice I started new jobs while I was pregnant (so I did not establish myself before having the baby). While I wasn’t able to get extended maternity leave time, I am very blessed to have my kids and am glad I did not wait for the dream job first.
Maybe the other girl has a better job because she doesn’t feel the need to announce she got a degree from an Ivy school?
Name dropping prentious hater.
Ouch, be nice. She’s asking for help, not insults.
anon for now...
Wow, sorry to offend. I rarely mention where I got my degree unless asked. But I’ve read enough comments here to know that sometimes where you go matters when getting leads on new jobs/interview, and that’s what I’ve seen so far while trying to switch fields. It shouldn’t, but it does seem to make people more comfortable considering your application. So I just provided that information for context. I have drawn heavily on my undergrad and grad networks (how I got my current position), but still floundering.
There’s no need to apologize, that commenter was out of line. Moving on… :)
Hey, Name dropping prentious hater, spellcheck is your friend, check it out.
Have you checked out the Big 4 or other consulting firms? I work at one in the consulting practice and I know we (and our competitors) are all recruiting heavily, especially for folks with technology backgrounds. And I know it sounds “evil empire”-ish, but a lot of the consulting gigs that go to the Big 4 involve working with governmental agencies/healthcare providers/NGOs to try to improve the work they do. Take a look at the jobs sections of their websites and then see if you can network with someone inside.
I would second this. Consulting firms love hiring technically qualified people and consulting jobs put you in contact with a lot of businesses and organizations in your field, some of which would be happy to hire consultants who’ve proven themselves.
Do you have a comprehensive profile on LinkedIn, and established as many quality network connections as you can? I realize this sounds strange, but I do have a current profile and get contacted by recruiters at least once a month. Some of these contacts have been retained searches, with salary and bonus in the $200,000+ range.
I’ve been able to find ideas by looking at profiles of people at companies I am interested in, plus my own connections. Also–update your profile every few weeks so it stays “fresh” and appears in search results.
Sweet Bluebook reference! :)
Now She's a Turtle
I put Siouxie and the Banshees on Pandora today
Now she’s in purple. (*＾-＾*)
Threadjack: I followed the advice of some Corporettes a few weeks ago, and bought some Certain-Dri to fight extra perspiration. It’s worked like a charm. I am extraordinarily grateful.
But has anyone encountered the problem with extra-dry skin near your pits? Like on your back (close to pits), or the sides of your breasts? I’m using the roll-on once every 3 nights, and then my normal solid in the morning. The Certain-Dri solid doesn’t seem to be sold in my area. Any tips? Lotion doesn’t seem to be working.
I have a dry underarm skin problem too, but lotion works for me. I put it on at night, after showering and before bed, so it soaks in on clean skin all night. I just use Jergens or the generic CVS imitation thereof.
I didn’t see your earlier post, but I’ve also used Certain-Dri for the same problem in the past. I’ve recently found that Secret Clinical also works for me (it didn’t several years ago when I first set out to address the problem). Maybe you’ve tried that, but if not, give it a shot – they also have a sensitive skin version.
You can also buy the solid online ($7.50 shipped on amazon):
cortisone cream and the like are always good for extra dry areas.
Threadjack: How do you manage a “graceful exit”?! I currently work at a very small agency, and have managed to keep my job search under wraps for the last several months. Although I like and respect my immediate supervisor, I have some serious issues with the way in which the agency is managed and have a mildly contentious relationship with the agency director. I have been offered another position, which I think I will accept. How do I give notice in the most tactful, appropriate way possible? I know my immediate supervisor will be upset with me, and I don’t want to burn any bridges. Thoughts?
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