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Anonymous
If I’m due June 1, is it feasible to take a baby moon in mid-late March? DH is a teacher so vacations are only possible over school break. We want to go to either Europe or the Caribbean and it was too cold and expensive, respectively, to do those over winter break so our last chance is spring break. I will clear any trip with my doctor of course, so am asking more about comfort and activity level rather than health risks. It would be one destination only, with light to moderate activity (snorkeling and swimming in the Caribbean, walking in Europe).
APC
This might sound dumb but think about where you would be most comfortable/trusting if you (knock on wood) wound up in a hospital. A friend of mine broke bones doing something in NY, and when I had the opportunity to do the same thing in Jamaica, all I could think of was that I didn’t want to wind up in a Jamaican hospital (no offense to Jamaican hospitals). Also, for example, my grandfather traveled Europe years ago (healthy) and wound up having a heart attack and was in a Paris hospital with a significant language barrier. I’d just make sure I was comfortable with worst case scenarios. For the record, I’m not generally this paranoid but if I was 2-3 months before my due date, I might be more aware of these things.
Wildkitten
How is that no offense to Jamaican hospitals?
APC
Oh come on – clearly that wasn’t my intent. The post is about being comfortable with a worst case scenario. I’m sure some Jamaican hospitals are great, and some are crap, just like any city, any country. I grew up equidistant from a great hospital in X county and a crappy hospital in Y county, and it was drilled into me that if I was in a car accident, to make sure they took me to the one in X county. And if I was in a foreign country and didn’t know any better I might wind up in a crappy hospital. For the record Jamaica is actually one of my favorite places in the world. So, claws back in wildkitten, please?
emeralds
As someone who works with stuff like this for a living (for once my non-law job is directly applicable!) it’s innately challenging and stressful to be dealing with a new medical system, possible language barriers, insurance issues, etc., no matter where you are. Especially if you’re dealing with a crisis situation (broken bones, extreme illness, etc.) at the same time. Especially if you don’t have a local contact to guide you through the process. I’m a well-traveled human with a high level of foreign language aptitude and a high degree of intercultural competence, but one of the most stressful experiences in my life was STILL when I had a non-critical gyno issue while living abroad in a European country as a non-native speaker. I have my issues with the U.S. medical system, but it is in no way offensive to prefer the devil you know if you’re having an urgent medical issue.
Alert: Bad pun
Jamaican a mountain out of a molehill?
Isle see myself out.
emeralds
omg thank you, 3:14 Friday afternoon needed this
Anonymous
hahahah!
Bingo
Love Love Love Love Love
Anonymous
I think you meant Alert: Outstanding puns. Love this so much.
Anokha
AMAZING.
Fishie
+10,000,000
Wildkitten
Oh – she’s comparing Jamaican hospitals to New York Hospitals. I thought she was saying Jamaican hospitals are inferior to European hospitals which is probably entirely accurate but silly to say “no offense” after you’ve said something you think was offensive.
Amelia Bedelia
the thing is, that approach could be used for ANY travel at ANY time. If you are having a normal pregnancy, isn’t the chance that you will wind up in the hospital with complications about the same as the chance you have any injury in any country and wind up in the hospital? So, would you really just not travel?
I may be too cavalier in my approach. I travel extensively and did so with both of my pregnancies. I was in India five months pregnant with my current and, honestly, I just didn’t worry. That may just be my personality, though — too naive thinking that everything will be fine.
Anonymous
Well, no, because when you’re pregnant you still have the same risk of non-pregnancy related injury or illness that you did before, plus you have the additional risk of pregnancy complications. So it’s by definition a greater risk.
Amelia Bedelia
Fair point.
M-C
Not to mention you’re no longer the only person involved. Breaking both of your own legs is one thing, but endangering the baby as well is whole other level.
Amelia Bedelia
Again, though, there are so many things that are “risky” with your Bebe. I think we manage risks and try not to be (too) stupid, but I don’t think not traveling during a pregnancy is necessarily best.
Anonymous
I would pick somewhere with a <3 hour flight. Assuming you are east coast, Europe is still a haul. I travel a lot for work and am pregnant with my second. I flew through month 8 (and a little) with #1 but I did a coast-to-coast flight at 7 months that was brutal. Your feet swell, you are crammed in a small seat. If you're in first or fly overseas biz class that's a bit of a different story.
w/r/t location, I'd pick the place where you can lounge, snooze, and float (beach) over walking. Every time we have done a Europe trip (all non pregnant), I wear through a pair of shoes and my feet kill me. at 6/7 months pregnant you may be fine, or you may have awful swelling and odd cramps when you walk. Mine didn't get bad until 8 months but at that point it felt like every day a baby was going to drop out of me!
anonomatopoeia
I’m not sure what this says about me or maybe the state of modern society, but I definitely read the “<3" as a heart.
mss
I agree with the above. I’d do a smaller (closer)baby moon, and then think about maybe doing a bigger trip with baby in the summer (August?).
Babymoon OP
Thanks for the comments. Sounds like we’ll have to do something closer to home. mss, is it really feasible to travel internationally in mid-August with a baby born in mid-June (assuming baby takes after his/her mom and is two weeks late?) I had been hoping to do an international trip in summer 2017 and was wondering if even that was too ambitious.
anon
I have friends who took their less than 3 month old to England, so yes, it can be done. I would be wary about traveling with a baby who has had zero vaccines yet, though.
Anonymous
It’s possible to do it but I don’t think you’d enjoy it very much. Newborn parenting can be exhausting and made easier by the comforts of home.
Amelia Bedelia
I have traveled quite a bit with my bebe, and started at 6 wks (to see family). It really, REALLY depends on your bebe. Mine was very chill on the airplane and fell asleep within half an hour of takeoff almost every flight until she was about six months old. It was wondrous. As far as vacation with one that small, it depends on your expectations. As long as you know you can’t rush from place to place and pack in 12 hour days and enjoy long expensive dinners with tons of wine, etc., you will be fine (at least I couldn’t do that with a 3 mos old – though she did usually sleep through dinner if we kept it under 1.5 hours). It’s all about modifying your expectations.
Babymoon OP
You’re awesome! We currently travel a lot for our social circle (one international trip a year, plus several domestic trips) and when I tell people we plan to keep traveling once the baby is here, I’m met with a lot of laughs and judgment. So it’s good to hear from someone who has made the combo of baby and travel work!
Away game
We lived in DC and in my firstborn’s first 12 months we travelled to Colorado, California, Bermuda, Paris, and Mexico. He started walking at age 1 and travel was more complicated after that. Easiest to travel before age 6 months as they are lighter and more portable. You do less of every thing, eat in more (vrbo is awesome, got a great place in Paris through them) and get great exercise carrying/ wearing baby.
Strollers are more trouble than they’re worth outside the US, although ok in Singaore, but YMMV.
profmama
We travel a lot for work and fun, and took our March baby to Italy from the west coast in June of the year she was born. Now, it wasn’t the Italy trip I fondly recalled from previous journeys, with long wine-soaked lunches, late night dinners, and lots of museums… mostly I was nursing every two hours, but the Italians were friendly and indulgent (more so, I think, that USA-ians), and traveling with a baby at that age is pretty easy, as all she needed was diapers and the boob.
We’ve continued to do lots of domestic trips each year, including to the east coast to see relatives, and took her back to Europe this past summer. Our daughter is so familiar with traveling that she plays “going on a trip” “packing my backpack” etc. as her dramatic play. Start traveling early and your kid will think it’s totally normal and just go with it (doesn’t mean that it’s not a bit more challenging than it is w/o kiddos, but it can definitely be managed!).
Amelia Bedelia
I agree with prof mama. If you start early (and manage expectations – I know I sound like a broken record with that one), it”s fine. My husband and I have travelled about six times internationally with my kiddo (is she is now about 1.5 years) and even more domestically. She’s definitely more work now on the plane with the walking, but it really is fine. We love it.
Pretentious
Here in the U.S., it’s called a baby.
Blonde Lawyer
I have a good friend that works in a NICU in a tourist town. Her advice is always to have a plan for what you would do if the worst were to happen. Well, I guess I should say, the second worst were to happen. She sees lots of happy tourists that go into early labor and give birth to a premie that needs to stay in a NICU a few weeks or a few months. Would you have a place to stay? Could you afford to stay in your tourist spot until your baby was discharged? If you couldn’t, would you emotionally be able to go home and financially be able to get back to get your baby when baby is discharged? These are things people never prepare for. Alternatively, do you have travel insurance that includes medical evacuation coverage that would transport your baby to a NICU in your home location. Few travel insurances will do this. Most will only evacuate you if the hospital you are at can’t provide the service. She generally recommends people don’t travel after 20 weeks for that reason but she recognizes that is not general medical advice and only because she sees the anomalies only in her job.
Anonymous
+1 Look especially carefully at any insurance policies. Some provide for your care in the event of early labour but not care for the baby. NICU bills can get expensive quickly.
I took a babymoon and loved it but my main concerns were quality of hospitals, appropriate insurance, and going somewhere that would not allow doctors to save my life over the baby’s if necessary (e.g. Ireland, some South American countries)
Not just me
On your last point, I’m so glad to see someone else share my concern. There was a shake up in the medical practices where I live such that my ob/gyn now only has privileges at the Catholic hospital. I’m thinking of TTC in the near future and I have lamented about having to find a new OB. My husband just doesn’t fully appreciate why I do not want to deliver at a Catholic hospital.
Anonymous
Just tell your husband that you don’t want to take the chance that he ends up a widower like this woman’s husband. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/10119109/Irish-abortion-law-key-factor-in-death-of-Savita-Halappanavar-official-report-finds.html
Obviously the laws are different in the US vs. Ireland but a Catholic hospital is not the place to trust that they are fully explaining your choices/risk to mom vs. baby
Wildkitten
My BF and I joke that if I ever become pregnant I’ll need a medical alert bracelet that says “Do NOT take Wildkitten to a Catholic hospital.”
Not just me
Wild Kitten,
You joke, but that’s a really good idea where I am. There is one Catholic and one secular hospital and the ambulance normally takes you to whichever is closer / has less of a wait unless you are conscious to express a preference. Really makes me mad that we have to worry about this.
NOLA
Wildkitten, your concerns are exactly why I was born in the next town over rather than in the town where my parents lived. The only hospital in our very small town was Catholic and my parents knew that they wanted a choice to save my mother over a child, in the case of an emergency.
Anonymous
I think you’ll be fine, just be prepared you may feel more fatigued and miss out on some of the “fun” things that you would otherwise do traveling.
You can’t sleep on the flight since you’ll need to walk around – get compression stockings. The key though is making sure that wherever you are going you have access to good neo-natal care (covered by insurance!) in case things go wrong. We were within 3 hours of a good hospital at all times and had no language issues when we did a big international baby moon (but I was at 27 weeks then) AND had full insurance coverage if necessary.
At your stage of pregnancy….I would still do it, just don’t have a busy itinerary (leave time for naps)! There’s something special about your last trip pre baby. And you can easily do an international trip with a young baby, but I would wait until 3 months post-partum as they become easier at that point (ie you are less sleep deprived!)
meme
I went to Hawaii at 26 weeks. My feet swelled up really huge from the 6 hour flight and were pretty painful/had to be elevated/managed most of the trip. I’m a runner and stayed really active until about 2 weeks before my baby was born, but I agree at 7 months you’ll want mostly beach/relax. Snorkeling was great for alleviating gravity for awhile. We did a few hikes, including one big one, but I was 6 months along – so different than 7 months. I remarked a bunch of times on my trip that I wouldn’t want to do it any further along.
Anonymous
Check into not just medical system quality/competence but also what the law allows in those areas. Down south I would avoid DR because I’ve heard there’s a total ban on abortion – even if it saves the mom’s life.
Dahlia
Here’s something that’s a bit horrible to think about, but unfortunately happened to a friend. She took a trip to Malta while she was pregnant. Unfortunately, she had some very severe complications that ultimately meant her pregnancy wasn’t viable. She was extremely ill and they would not perform an abortion even to save her life. She said they actually wouldn’t really talk to her at all- she couldn’t get any information until her husband arrived and the doctors would talk to him. She very much wanted the baby, and the trauma of her loss was further compounded by the threat to her own life, her inability to get treatment, and her inability to get any information from the doctors.
She was ultimately air-lifted to another major European city where she received treatment and recovered.
I think Malta is the only European county without a life-saving exception to illegal abortion, and its something I wouldn’t have thought of before this, but now if I was going to travel while pregnant I would make sure to check into these laws. You certainly don’t expect something like this to happen but… well, I’d rather at least know.
Anonymous
Nope, Ireland doesn’t have an exception either.
Anonymous
The Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act 2013 made an exception in Ireland when the mother’s life is at risk. There had been medical guidance permitting it before, but the law clarified that doctors would not face prosecution for life-saving abrtions.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/30/abortion-ireland-becomes-legal-circumstances
Not just me
And your definition of “life saving” might be different from theirs. I’ve heard a horror story from my local Catholic hospital that someone had a condition that would require a medically necessary abortion to save the mother but they wouldn’t actually perform it until the condition progressed to the point where her life was at that point in danger. She ended up leaving and going to another facility that performed it rather than forcing her to go through physical pain up to the point she was now at risk of dying. It was absurd.
Amelia Bedelia
I was due in late June and took an 8 day trip to Paris in early April. I also traveled for work extensively in Europe up until 4 weeks before my due date (had to have a doctor note to get on the plane).It was fine. European hospitals are wonderful. I have had to visit a Swiss and and Italian hospital at various times (one for a pregnancy emergency and another for stitches after falling (pre-pregnancy several years ago)). They were both excellent experiences. A lot of Europeans speak English, and I found the staff very kind and attentive and eager to help the dumb American who didn’t speak their respective languages! And other than doing things differently (different approach to medication and room sharing and the like), I didn’t find it better or worse than most major US hospitals.
I would have no qualms at all about visiting Europe at that stage if you are having a normal pregnancy. Frankly, my pregnancy was high-risk and I still felt it was fine.
I have no experience with most of the Caribbean. It just isn’t my style of vacation. However, I was injured in Aruba several years ago in an ATV accident. My husband had a horrible time with the hospital and considered it very sub-par. I was almost air-lifted out of there because the hospital didn’t have a proper MRI machine and there were bleeding issues. It was a scary experience. So, check the location you are visiting and make sure the hospitals are well-reviewed by expats. I’ve heard Cayman has an excellent one.
Amelia Bedelia
I don’t know if the site is having issues, or I am having issues, but apologies if this shows up multiple time.
I was due in late June and took an 8 day trip to Paris in early April. I also traveled for work extensively in Europe up until 4 weeks before my due date (had to have a doctor note to get on the plane).It was fine. European hospitals are wonderful. I have had to visit a Swiss and and Italian hospital at various times (one for a pregnancy emergency and another for stitches after falling (pre-pregnancy several years ago)). They were both excellent experiences. A lot of Europeans speak English, and I found the staff very kind and attentive and eager to help the dumb American who didn’t speak their respective languages! And other than doing things differently (different approach to medication and room sharing and the like), I didn’t find it better or worse than most major US hospitals.
Babymoon OP
Thanks for all the additional comments. Lots to think about. I did remember the Ireland/Catholic hospital thing from previous discussions here, so that was already on my radar as a concern.
Anonymous
How would you say your weight has affected your work life? Your personal life? Especially for dating and promotions.
For those of you that lost or gained a lot of weight, did it make a difference in how you were treated? Were things easier when you were smaller?
KittyKat
I’m small and always have been. I get inappropriate comments directed my way a lot. One coworker even knows my wardrobe so well he will comment if I’m wearing something new. I think it distracts from my skills, but science has shown thinner women earn more, not sure if that’s correlation of causation though. Personally I found love easily and still get asked out all. the. time.
Hmm
It sounds more to me like you probably dress in a way that makes you look promiscuous. Hence the all.the.time. My most objectively attractive friends don’t get approached that much because guys are intimidated and feel like they’re out of their leagues.
Lucy
No. This is rude and wrong.
When I was young and in shape and consistently well-groomed (I think I still am the latter), I was approached no matter what I was wearing. I can think of a handful of times in my entire life when I could be said to have been dressed provocatively. Really. I wore long pants and sleeves always. My first deep V anything ever was last year and I was small chested back then anyway. But men approached in stores, on the street, in the car, and in genuine social situations. It became overwhelming. Gaining weight definitely did the trick, though. I would say it significantly affects how people treat me in all arenas, but don’t discount that my own lower confidence plays a role.
Anonymama
I’ve actually found that I get approached by men more often (like, actual conversation rather than catcalls) when I am dressed down (jeans and long-sleeve, loose t shirt or hoody) than when I am done up more (do high heels signal “more promiscuous”?) I’m guessing KittyKat is both attractive and approachable/nice/friendly-looking.
anon
Rude. Why do you feel the need to cut other women down?
“My most objectively attractive friends don’t get approached that much because guys are intimidated and feel like they’re out of their leagues.”
It sounds like you have a *lot* of knowledge about the inner workings of minds that are not your own…..
Hmm
It’s funny you say that. I appreciate the kindness behind it — you’re defending another woman, a stranger at that, and that’s genuinely admirable – but in fact I think it’s comments like hers that cut people down. This is a fraught subject. To casually write, “Oh, I get asked out ALL OF THE TIME,” and “I found love easily,” — there’s something rather braggy and insensitive about it, isn’t it? Especially if you’re attributing it to being small, which not everyone is?
And before you suggest I’m jealous — for what it’s worth, and I can definitely understand if you don’t believe me — I’m pretty small myself. But I’m not attributing the good things that have happened to me because of it. I have friends that are bigger than me who are far better looking, and have great relationships. I also have friends that are just stunning that don’t get approached, and it really does seem logical that guys are intimidated by their looks. Which is why I gave the side-eye to the getting asked out all. the time., with the implication being that it’s because she’s SO attractive, and SO small. I mean, give me a break. It was just strange and smug and seemed like probably an overstatement. That’s why I was theorizing that maybe she dressed in a possibly provocative way.
And as someone small myself, I truly, truly think that the people here that are saying they’re small and have been accorded so many privileges because of it — they’re beyond overstating it. And it grosses me out, because it’s an inaccuracy that – what a coincidence- benefits them. I’m not saying that significant obesity doesn’t put one at a possible disadvantage, unfortunately. But I’m saying that average and healthy is not by default seen as less attractive than being skinny. I would selfishly maybe even like it if it did — it would benefit me! But I definitely think people are imputing way too much attractiveness to thinness – it’s not remotely there to the degree they clearly hope it is.
Anonymous
I have to +1 to Hmm. Some of my most objectively gorgeous friends are single and rarely get hit on. I have many objectively unattractive friends who have no problems meeting guys. I don’t know that I’d say dress is the biggest factor. I think personality is (at least for people with a slim to slightly chubby figure; I agree that the seriously overweight may be hit on less because of their appearance). I think if you have that vivacious, smiley, super outgoing personality (in a nice way, not in an annoying way) you will get approached way more and have a better chance of turning each interaction into an invitation for a date. I am thin and pleasant looking but not supermodel gorgeous and I rarely got hit on when I was single, but I think it has less to do with my looks and more more to do with the fact that I was very shy and when people talked to me I was usually quiet and nervous and didn’t really carry the conversation.
Anon
I absolutely had more- i don’t want to say luck – more fortunate circumstances – when I was a size 6 (after losing weight) than currently at a 12, with respect to professional/work things. I was (am?) pretty, blonde, and when I was that size I felt like one of the ‘pretty popular people’ (which I never was). I gained weight back and it’s a more average situation for sure. I don’t feel my current weight holds me back, but I do think my weight minus X lbs helped propel me forward, if that makes sense.
As far as dating goes – yes, obviously, it’s a superficial business, but when I found the right guy, I realized and am confident he will love me no matter my size or weight.
Senior Attorney
This is a really emotional, loaded topic so I post with some trepidation, but here goes anyway: I lost a lot of weight about five years ago after being heavy for most of my life. I always say that everything is completely different now, and at the same time everything is exactly the same. On the one hand, I had a lot of shame and angst about my weight and having that gone is like a miracle. And as Anon at 2:10 says, for the first time I feel like one of the pretty popular people and that’s amazing. On the other hand, I’m still me with all but one of the same problems and foibles I had before.
Personal life? My former husband always gave me a hard time about my weight and I thought things would be better once I lost it. Not surprisingly, once I got thin he found other things to criticize me about. But after I left the marriage I am certain I had more dating options than I would have had if I hadn’t lost the weight. And my new Gentleman Friend is a fairly serious weekend athlete and it’s nice to be able to keep up with him.
Work? I don’t think my weight ever affected my work life all that much, although I did interview for a big promotion while I was at my heaviest and I didn’t get it — it’s impossible to know whether my weight played a part but certainly it didn’t help.
Do people treat me better now? Yes, I think they do. I find people are just nicer to me in general now (see “pretty popular people,” above). And yes, I think things are definitely easier now that I’m smaller. In addition to the things I’ve already mentioned, there are practical reasons like being able to go into a store and buy clothes that fit. Certainly I feel a lot more confident and that plays a big role, too.
emeralds
Work, I would say not at all. But I’m very cognizant of the fact that I occupy a privileged position in a lot of social and gendered settings, almost entirely because genetics resulted in me being on the smaller side for an American woman of my height (and I mean, I eat healthy and exercise because those are good things for any human to do, but even if I were to subsist on burgers and fries I would STILL be pretty small). I am also conventionally attractive, and my clothing and surface-level mannerisms conform to gender norms. For me to claim that had no influence on my personal life, especially with dating and relationships, would be ridiculous. Since I figured out clothes/hair/makeup before I started college, I have never had any issues meeting men (finding men who I actually wanted to be in a relationship with, who wanted to be in a relationship with me, is a whole different ballgame).
I can’t say it sucks for me personally, because I am so clearly on the privileged side of the spectrum. I’m dating a great man that I love sincerely that I know loves me–but I don’t think would he have given me a second glance if I were 75lbs heavier when we met. That is ridiculous and it makes me sick and so full of rage. Not even at him, just society and its ridiculous standards for the female body.
Anon For This
+1 to everything here. I’m conventionally attractive and naturally thin (despite a tremendous sweet tooth). Do I think being a woman has hurt me in my male-dominated profession? Yes. Do I think being an attractive female has helped me in my male-dominated profession, and in life more generally? Yes.
I also don’t think my husband would have been interested in me at all if I weighed 75 pounds more when I met him. But then again, I probably wouldn’t have been interested in him if he was 75 pounds overweight, either.
anon
+1
I think being a conventionally attractive woman has probably both helped and hurt me at work. Having bosses harass you and try to pursue wildly inappropriate relationships with you is not helpful to one’s career. Of course, harassment is also about power- and certainly not something experienced only by the conventionally attractive.
Holy moly
Emeralds, you sound incredibly full of yourself! A big giveaway was your weird parenthetical -the “I’d STILL be pretty small.” I’m not sure what the point of that was? The question here was how weight has impacted you, not how “OMG naturally blessed and attractive I am but I’m going to pretend I’m bothered by these standards.” Standards which I think you’re really misreading because they favor you. I’ve been average- healthy weight- and veering on too thin, and o absolutely was more hit on when i was average. My face must have looked better, or something. But either way, that cuts against your argument about how privileged you think you are (and are pretending to bemoan.)
Hgts
This is a very strange response to emeralds’ comment, and I hope it’s just a reading comprehension fail. The whole point of her comment is that she recognizes that she has accrues privilege through no virtue of her own. This is the opposite of “full of yourself” and is in fact the exact thing you say you want her to acknowledge.
And yes, someone an be genuinely bothered by standards that they benefit from. Either that, or it’s impossible for any white people to be anti-racist.
Anonymous
I think emeralds has shown many times that she’s pretty aware of any privilege she has, and realistically, she’s right- some people are lucky, in that they can eat a lot, and still be relatively “small”.
Emeralds- I do appreciate your championing of loving different sizes, and less focus on them! I always read your comments, and feel like you must be a really inclusive and nice person in real life, so don’t let this response bug you!
Sydney Bristow
I’ve gained a lot, lost a lot, and then regained it.
As far as work goes, I honestly don’t know how it has impacted me. I was temping at my highest and at my lowest since college and I was offered a permanent position at both weights.
Dating-wise, it did have an impact. I choose to see it as guys self-selecting themselves out. I was told once to my face that he only dated skinny beautiful girls (after making out with me at a party) and that I was falsely advertising myself online because he didn’t expect me to be so fat (even though the pictures were from the same month and clearly showed what I looked like). In the end though, my husband has been nothing but loving and supportive of my body since we met. He always tells me he loves my curves but was right there cheering me on and I lost 60 pounds and not judging me when I gained it back. I’m losing weight again and he is completely supportive and says he just wants me to be healthy so we can grow old together. It’s so nice to know that he loves me no matter what I look like.
Personally I’m not really sure. I might be treated nicer by strangers when I’m smaller but not really enough to notice. The only thing I have noticed is that people on the subway were more likely to scoot over and make room for me on the seats when I was smaller, probably because they were less afraid I would squish them.
Wildkitten
There’s scientific studies on this topic if you want data instead of anecdote.
Anonymous
I would love links to studies! Please share!
Wildkitten
http://www.forbes.com/2008/05/21/health-weight-career-forbeslife-cx_avd_0521health.html
women's place
I have always been slender/athletic build. It has not helped me socially.
I always had bad skin growing up, and it had a staggeringly strong impact on my confidence. People take one look at you… that’s it.
I put some effort into figuring out my clothes/hair/make-up, but it is hard. Skin continued to be a struggle long into adulthood. I am not conventionally attractive, and people have let me know it. In fact, men have even told me to gain weight…. I am not too thin, but it is because I have no boobs. Yeah, like that’s how it works…. I’m not sure if it would be worse if they just told me I should get a boob job!
I think there is a wider level of male preference of women, and perhaps societal, when you are attractive. For me, not being attractive made being thin irrelevant. In fact, my very slender women friends do not get the most male attention going out. It is my women friends who have 20-40 lbs on me, good skin, an hourglass figure, and…. CONFIDENCE. All stuff I lack.
Anon
I completely agree with the comment that CONFIDENCE has been the most important thing for me, particularly professionally. I’ve been a steady 10/12. I’m tall, and I don’t feel like I’m huge. I would say I’m just average. I don’t know how things would be different if I was smaller or bigger, but I can say that might size hasn’t hindered me in any way, and I can’t come up with any position or whatnot that I missed out on that might possibly have had to do with appearance.
In some ways, I think being an average-sized young woman (early 30s now) who has tended to style herself more conservatively (e.g., hair usually pulled back neatly, minimal makeup, etc) has helped me. I think in a strange way, since society kind of expects that women shouldn’t be happy unless they’re skinny, if you’re confident even though you’re not skinny, then you must be doing pretty well.
Also — and this may just be my personal bias — I kind of feel like it helps that I don’t look like one of the young popular girls, who’s skinny and has long styled hair. I feel like that has helped me come across as more serious: I look put together, but not like I spend a ton of time on my body and appearance. I work in a conservative field, and I think particularly for women, coming across as serious as a young woman has been a huge advantage, at least in my experience.
I feel bad for the commenter above who talked about acne. I think it’s horrid, but there is something to the idea that having problem skin might hinder you professionally. Maybe it is because acne is usually associated with younger people? I don’t know. I’m very, very lucky that I have good skin.
Anonymous BigLaw Associate
I feel like my weight and height have impacted me positively at work. I am 5’11” and around 135 lbs. So I am really tall (taller than nearly all of male colleagues, particularly with heels), and very slim. I am not sure about the American standard of conventionally attractive, but using the standard from my ethnicity, I would say yes to that as well.
In my personal life, being so tall made dating difficult when I was younger. I didn’t care, but men seemed to. But then I met my similarly lanky husband, so whatever. More than anything, I am tired of being STARED at in public. I don’t think my height would be as noticeable if I had more meat on my bones.
JJ
I’m 6′ tall and with a lot more meat on my bones…people still stare if you’re this tall as a woman. You just have to accept that you will never fly under the radar.
Midwest Mama
Yep. 6′ tall and ~155 lbs and they still stare. And comment. “You are so tall.” Yes, I know. Can’t hide in a crowd. It’s funny though because “tall and thin” is supposed to be the ideal look for our society, and while I’ve never been ashamed of my height, I do sometimes wish I was smaller. I’ll never be “cute,” it’s hard being taller than most men, it’s hard to fit into places (planes, movie theaters, even sinks are so low), it’s hard to find clothes that fit properly, etc.
Anonattorney
Um, 6′ tall and 155 lbs is really slim. I’m 6′ tall and when I was 175 lbs I wore a size 8. I’m now 195 lbs and am a very comfortable weight (size 12-14, which on my height feels slimmer than average).
Anonymous
Especially in Asia! People were coming up to me on the street and asking to take a selfie with me like I was Angelina Jolie or something.
WomenLawyersNews
Hi everyone, letting you know 2016 Billable Hour Spreadsheet tool was released earlier this week if anyone needs help predicting/managing your 2016 hours more accurately. Something I created for myself and now sharing. Very helpful for figuring out, at a glance, vacation/conference/holidays, where you are with hours throughout the year, & how to better balance your time. Easy, 4-step, 5 min/less setup from download to done. More info and Frequently Asked Questions available here: http://www.womenlawyersnews.com/wln-billable-hour-projector/
Happy new year and have a great weekend!
Kate
Anonymous
This seems like a really useful tool- I just wish it weren’t $35…
Anon
And if there weren’t typos in the screen shots for this $35 tool.
Anonymous
I don’t mean to come across as rude, but why wouldn’t people just take the 15min it takes to set up their own Excel sheet rather than pay $35? I mean, we’re not exactly talking rocket science here, and I think most people in 2016 can at least use Excel for basic arithmetic. That’s how my elderly grandparents manage their finances.
Anon for this
Love these shoes…. Must resist…
Very anon for this – not a troll.
I just found out that my (relatively) new husband gardens by himself while watching gardening shows. Our garden parties are good, though not as frequent as I would like – and we’ve discussed that. I’m really put off, more so by the garden shows than by the self-gardening. I understand men and women can have some differing gardening needs (even though I would argue my needs are not always met), so conceptually the self-garden part doesn’t bother me. But the shows do. Like, if he’s going to self-garden, I would hope he’d think about me, or if he has to think about some supermodel or whatever, don’t tell me about it. And does this contribute to us not gardening together? He says no but… The thought is in my head. I don’t garden on my own. I feel super icky about this and wanted to know if anyone else has any experiences, thoughts or advice? I am too embarrassed to ask friends IRL, because it will either make him look bad or me like a prude (which I don’t think I am).
Anonymous
Yeah, you are a prude. Basically every guy does this. And seriously, learn to garden on your own, it’s not icky, it’s amazing. Self-care is a good thing.
And if your gardening needs aren’t being met by him, you need to communicate with him about this. So yeah. And listen to some Dan Savage podcasts to open your mind.
Anonymous
Psh. My husband doesn’t, and it would bother me if he did. You can’t really say basically every guy does this, especially if it bothers her. If it botehrs her, it bothers her.
Jez
I think it’s adorable that you think your husband doesn’t.
Anonymous
That was what I thought when I read it, but I thought it was too mean to say.
Anonymous
+1 Dan Savage has basically made a career out of explaining to straight women that all men self-garden.
Anonymous
I do know one guy who claims never to have done it (and we weren’t romantically involved in any way, so I’m inclined to believe him). He is a serious Catholic. He’s also in his 30s and, to my knowledge, has never had a sexual experience of any kind, so it’s very possible he’s asexual.
Anonymous
Another anon with a DH not into gardening shows or that into self-gardening – I think it’s his Catholic upbringing. I actually watch the occasional gardening show but it’s not his thing. He preference garden parties. I think gardening shows have become so acceptable with the advent of the Internet that people feel like they are supposed to be part of a healthy gardening plan – they don’t have to be. To each their own.
Soanon
I think it might actually raise his risk for prostate cancer (to not self garden).
Anonymous
Frequent self-gardening is actually associated with a higher risk of prostate cancer in younger men: http://www.webmd.com/prostate-cancer/news/20090127/masturbation-and-prostate-cancer-risk
But it’s very unlikely that it’s self-gardening that’s causing or not causing prostate cancer. It’s just that the same hormones that make you want to self-garden are also related to prostate cancer. So it’s completely correlation not causation, and whether or not he gives in to his desires to self-garden or refrains from it would not matter.
Anonymous
I garden on my own and have a couple gardening tools and watch gardening shows sometimes. I know not everybody does this, but I wouldn’t think it was weird. Honestly, the only people I know who think it’s weird are the uber conservative Christian people I’m friends with on Facebook who share articles about the immorals of gardening without a spouse.
Anon
You might be interested to know that many Muslims and Jews might also find it weird.
Anonono
Not surprising that more conservative religious types of any denomination have a more repressed attitude towards sexuality.
Anonymous
Maybe try watching some gardening shows together and then gardening together once in awhile? You might find you like the shows and are less upset about him watching them alone. My DH watches the shows and gardens solo and I have no problem with it at all. Just because I don’t care doesn’t mean you shouldn’t care though. Everyone has to be true to themselves. If you have never given gardening shows a try though, it’s hard to have an opinion on them. Sometimes I watch them solo too.
Anonymous
If the gardening shows are too much at first for your solo-gardening, maybe try gardening books.
the gold digger
My FIL would get ticked at my MIL because she did not want to watch gardening shows with him. He was quite proud that he still gardened, even with the help of gardening pills.
I told my husband that in functional relationships, parents do not talk about their gardening with each other or their watching gardening shows with their children, even when those children are adults.
Also – if you have special gardening equipment or photos, may I suggest that you figure out a way for your adult children not to find them when the kids are cleaning the house after you and your spouse are dead?
Anonymous
I thought this was actually about gardening for the first part of the question.
So, the idea that he will think about you while he gardens is kinda crazy. I understand the feeling and have felt the same way myself at times, but it is totally normal to watch “gardening shows.” I’m pretty sure 99.9% of guys do. He didn’t volunteer this info right? You asked and/or caught him doing it? It seems a little callous to talk about it, but totally normal to do it and it is 100% not a reflection of his interest in you and attraction to you.
I think you should focus your conversations with him about the fact that you’d like more joint gardening, not his self-gardening and the gardening shows (do your best to put the shows out of your mind completely).
I do NOT think you’re a prude because you don’t self-garden. I don’t and I know some of my closest girlfriends don’t either. It’s not for everyone. You do you (or in this case, don’t, haha).
Ellen
Yay! Open Thread’s! I love Open thread’s and these booties, Kat. I have a pair of these Keneth Cole booties that Rosa gave me b/c she did not like the color, so I saved $250! The manageing partner was very happy b/c I would have tried to get him to pay for it b/c I wear them to court in the Winter. YAY!!!!!!
As for the OP, alot of men do have their own garden partie’s but if they are your boyfreind, or husband, you will be expected to do this for them, and that is our role in the relationship. I remember Sheketovits was always askeing me to do HIS gardening for him, b/f we did the standard conventioneal P to V stuff, and he was VERY sloppey about it, NOT keepeing me informed of status, which led to him messing up my 1000 threadcount Egyptian Cotton Sheet’s. So from that point on, I asked that he be alot more vocal so I could be ready with something other then ME to catch his mess b/f the sheet’s got it. Eventueally I figured out it was better to put him on a bath towelle which I could easily throw in the wash. The key here is communiceation, just like anywhere else. If you remain silent, you will get an unwelcome suprize, and it’s not fun to be surprized with that! FOOEY!
January
Read literally, the OP is kind of hilarious (like, why would it be a problem that your husband watches gardening shows on PBS and then putters around in the backyard by himself for awhile? Sounds harmless!)
Anonymous
That’s exactly what I was thinking…wow, this woman is really overly concerned about her husband’s hobbies!
the gold digger
My husband and I have a deal that if he gets stuck in an elevator with Kate Winslet, he can garden with her if she is willing and that I get to do the same with Idris Elba.
Anonymous
Yeah, you’re a prude. Nearly all men, and a lot of women, watch this stuff, and his activities are universal. You should be tending your own garden as well.
Address issues that you’re having together in that context. They have nothing to do with his individual activities.
He doesn’t have to think about people other than you. He wants to. Because it is fun and normal. Please don’t let your weird naïveté hurt your marriage.
Anonymous
What?? Of course it is normal to self garden, even when you are in a relationship. It is also 100% normal to fantasize about other people and doesn’t mean you aren’t attracted to your partner. Aren’t you attracted to other men besides your husband? Plenty of women enjoy gardening movies. Most women self garden. This is not something that just men do, its a healthy human activity that almost everyone engages in.
The problem is that your gardening needs are not being met. You can and should have an open and honest conversation about this with your husband, but don’t criticize his viewing. The only problem with self gardening is if it’s getting in the way of couples gardening. But shaming him about it is only going to make your gardening relationship worse.
Seconding the Dan Savage rec. If you’re not sure what you’re into, how to self garden, etc. I highly recommend this book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1580053440?keywords=what%20you%20really%20really%20want&qid=1452280045&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1. As a good jump start for a couples conversation about gardening activities this website is really great: http://mojoupgrade.com/. It has some pretty out there stuff on it, but if you’re willing to dive in it can be a great conversation starter. Basically you just tick off which stuff you’re into and it only shows the stuff that both partners tick off. Like speed dating for gardening preferences.
Anonymous
And also: you are not a prude. Our culture teaches everyone (especially women) some really nasty and destructive things about gardening. Blaming yourself on an individual level is pointless and only going to make things harder for you. I mostly agree with the posters above about how this is normal and you need to learn to accept it, but I don’t think calling yourself names or being unkind to yourself will help the situation at all. You can challenge your current perspective and also be kind to yourself at the same time. It’s tough but it is so so worth it.
Diana Barry
+1. Self-gardening is totally fine, as are shows – I would say 99% of males that I know utilize both.
The issue is that your needs are not being met – I would talk with your husband about that and work on that.
cbackson
FWIW, I think that gardening solo often serves a very different purpose for people than do garden parties. Part of the reason it’s common for people not to think about the spouse/partner during solo gardening is that it’s more about stress relief/physical release, as opposed to emotional connection, which is often an important part of garden parties in a committed relationship.
Anonymous
+1
Anonymous
+1, it’s definitely more about the physical and the stress relief (I tend to my garden to help me fall asleep sometimes) than it is about the emotional connection and bond I feel when I garden with my bf. Same biological functions, very different purposes.
Senior Attorney
I agree that what he is doing sounds normal but you should take action to improve your joint activities so you are both satisfied.
But I’m really posting to give you a big high five for coming up with “watching gardening shows!” LOL
Master Gardener
But just because people hang out “by themselves” doesn’t mean they’re not satisfied together.
You can have fun in different ways doing both.
Anonymous
But she said there aren’t as many joint activities as she would like, that is what needs fixing.
Anonymous
I think you are the anomaly re: not wanting to garden on your own. It’s fine to be either way, but most people do and many people, male and female, watch gardening shows.
OP
FWIW It’s not that I never gardened on my own, but I’ve never found it that satisfying (I don’t seem to be great at uh… getting my roses to bloom by myself?), so when I’m in a committed, steady relationship, I don’t tend to self-garden since I have regular access to parties.
I’m even open to watching the shows WITH him. I just didn’t like him doing it on his own. I am a little confused on where my comfort level is I guess, and why. I’ll look into those books/podcasts. I largely didn’t like the furtiveness of it and the idea that it might contribute to our less than frequent parties.
But this does lead me to another question – at what point are people uncomfortable with their partner fantasizing about someone else? Is it okay if it is a celebrity/not ‘real’ person? Are you uncomfortable if you knew your partner was fantasizing about a friend/co-worker? Is it just when it crosses the line to something in real life (flirting, touching, etc.)? I’m genuinely curious.
Anonymous
I would be uncomfortable if I knew he were fantasizing about a friend/co-worker, but I’m also not sure how I would know, since we don’t discuss that stuff, for which I am very glad. FWIW, if I had to know what was going on inside his head (and like I said, I don’t want to know) I think I’d almost rather he be watching “gardening shows” and thinking about those girls, who are just body parts and not even all that attractive in real life, then thinking about one particular gorgeous supermodel, especially if it’s someone whose personality he might be kind of crushing on as well (like, say Chrissy Teigen). The former seems more purely physical than the latter.
nonny
I wonder if you’re thinking of self-gardening as a secretive activity instead of a relaxing one. I know my BF does, but I view it as letting off steam like he was playing a video game.
As for the second question, I think you can’t hold someone accountable to their garden fantasies unless they act on it. If you’ve ever had a garden dream of your ex or something, then you’ll see why that isn’t true. A lot of gardening thoughts/dreams come from subconscious places, but as long as he doesn’t try to act on it, then don’t hold it against him.
And sometimes thinking about/being attracted to celebrity makes them more eager to garden with you. I’d peruse the literature above, but strive to be respectful of each others’ opinions and understanding, while not violating your own comfort zone in gardening pursuits.
Anonymous
Honestly, why do you need to be that much in someone else’s head where they have to tell you all the mundane fantasies? Everyone has random fantasies, although if you find he is doing is obsessively or all the time, then yeah, that is pretty weird. Maybe he just wants some lazy getting off time. Maybe he’s having some problem and wants solitude so he doesn’t feel pressured. Maybe it’s something else, I don’t know – but since you feel like it is interfering with your intimate life you should discuss it with him. I think the real root of the issue is not solo-gardening, but that you are not feeling happy with your gardening life.
APC
unintended pun? root?
Anonforthis
I know my fiance gardens by himself and younger me got annoyed since I’d rather we garden together and watch gardening shows together since I like some of them.
At this point, I get it though, as much as I love gardening, sometimes a quick jaunt to the garden by yourself is what you need. I also respect that what he needs is to pretend that he doesn’t watch gardening show and that I don’t either, which I find silly, but everybody is different and I don’t feel the need to force him to share EVERYTHING.
anon in the garden
My spouse and I have a pretty active sex life and I self garden at times, sometimes to gardening shows. I definitely fantasize about celebs and made up people. I am totally attracted to my husband and love him more than I could imagine. Its not a reflection on you.
Anonymous
+1 to all of this. I enjoy the visual appeal of certain celebrities. I love my boyfriend to pieces. The two things are not connected.
Anonymous
We don’t have enough information. Have you told him that you’d like the frequency to increase? Are you initiating and he’s turning you down? There’s nothing objectively wrong with solo activities, but I would be very hurt if my partner was taking care of his needs while actively neglecting mine.
Garden shows became a huge issue between me and my ex-husband. We had a serious lack of intimacy and he would turn me down every time I tried to initiate. It almost felt me initiating was a turn off for him. When I found evidence of his garden shows, I felt gutted. I actually felt worse about that than when he cheated on me. At least when he cheated, we were long distance. I was sleeping in the next room when he was watching those videos, having just gone to bed because he turned me down.
OP
Yes, we’ve discussed the frequency issue. It’s mostly a factor of life getting in the way and us both being exhausted (two time consuming jobs, etc.). We don’t have kids yet and I’ve said to him how do we think we’ll ever be able to garden together after kids if we can’t even figure it out now. He has on occasion turned me down, and vice versa, typically only if we’re too tired. I’ve said to him that the time to initiate gardening is not once we’re already in bed ready to go to sleep, but a little bit earlier in the night. Mornings are tough because our schedules differ a little. But sometimes weeks go by and we don’t garden. I don’t doubt his interest in me as a general thing… But I do think that if he self gardened a little less, maybe it’d be a little more important to him to garden with me. When I have gardening desires, I go to him, but it at least seems that when he does, he doesn’t always come to me. That hurt me a little.
But what you are saying, 2:39, is a big fear of mine – that he is choosing shows over me. He says he’s not. I don’t know.
Anon8
If weeks are going by with no activity, then does that mean you are initiating and he is turning you down? Or if you don’t initiate very often, could it be possible that he thinks you’re not interested so then he’s doing off on his own?
I understand feeling hurt. You want to feel desired by your husband and perhaps you feel the shows are more important to him. I also see this as a love languages thing. I sounds like physical contact is something that makes you feel loved. I think you need to have a conversation with him about that.
From my experience, my husband has a much higher drive than I do. I don’t mind if he goes off on his own every now and then. However, in your case those shows should not get in the way of your relationship.
Anonymous
Maybe if you actually made it a priority? Like, initiate three times a week. And if he initiates at bed time go with it and get less sleep?
Anonymous
I think someone said something similar above, but I don’t think you can lump everything into “gardening desires.” The desire to self-garden is quite often driven by something very different than the desire to joint garden. Personally when I want to self-garden, I’d rather forgo it altogether than be forced to co-garden instead at that moment. It’s just a different thing for me and for many others.
Anonymous
I hate the idea of my husband watching gardening shows. Because I honestly only ever think about him when I self-garden, and the fact he doesn’t see me in the same way means deep down I will always believe he loves me less than I love him.
Luckily, he doesn’t watch them often, and I have got to cope with the idea by telling myself he is only getting off to the eroticism of watching other people garden and is not specifically into that girl on the screen.
FWIW, I have the much higher sex drive in our relationship and would love to do it twice a day. We have agreed to a minimum of twice a week, so I have a benchmark for me to step in and say we need to have a gardening party. Otherwise, I could see me letting it slide for weeks without properly confronting the issue.
Anonymous
There’s an old joke-According to studies, 98% of men “garden.” The other 2% are lying. It’s normal. Also, if you would argue your needs are not always met, might I suggest some gardening tools?
Anonymous
So, my H and I have very different sex drives. He would like it every day or every other day, I’m good with once a week or less. Rationally, I understand that he should/will masturbate. However, my husband is unable to perform the day he masturbates and sometimes for even longer. I think that may be atypical, especially for a young man, but it’s resulted in some incredibly hurtful situations where I’ve initiated, he’s been unable to get it up, he’s fessed up that he masturbated that day (which ew, I don’t want to think about it) and I’ve felt very unloved and unattractive. Our solution has been to schedule sex in advance. I know it’s unromantic and maybe unusual, especially for a couple without kids, but it’s been a great solution that lets us have joint parties together that we both look forward to and has allowed him to do whatever solo activities he wants on the off days without me having to think about them at all. I know you don’t have the same issue but I think scheduling sex might be really helpful for you as well, and if your joint activities improve you won’t be worrying about his solo activities as much. Start with a scheduled frequency that’s less than you would like but more than he would like and go from there.
On the subject of fantasies: when we first started dating, I gave him naked/lingerie photos of myself (not super smart, I know, fortunately the relationship lasted). He loved the photos and was very verbally appreciative of them, but when I found out he was still watching shows during his solo activities I was pretty hurt. I had this fantasy that now that he had these photos of me, he would only use those, so I totally understand your feelings. Buuuuut that is just totally unrealistic. I think many or even most men just think of solo activities totally separate from their partner. It’s not an emotional thing, he just wants a pure physical relief without an emotional component, so it’s easier for him to think about someone other than you. Basically one cbackson said. It was a hard lesson to learn but I did and we moved on. You will too.
Disgusted anon
Sorry if this double-posts – didn’t look like it went through.
All of the commenters calling you a prude are way out of line. It’s 110% fine to be anti-“gardening shows,” which are violent against women, exploitative, and contributing to unrealistic standards for gardening activity. Sure, plenty of women watch it too – that doesn’t make it good for women.
Only you can know what’s best for you in your marriage and what you’re comfortable with – don’t let anyone tell you that you “should” do something you’re not comfortable with in the garden. What an awful slippery slope that is.
Anonymous
Lol at “unrealistic standards”. Maybe you should try a thing or two and open your mind a bit.
Disgusted anon
No desire to “try a thing or two” and get slapped in the face, spat on, screamed at, tied up for rape “games”, beaten, etc. If you think that’s empowering the mind and relationship, I feel very sorry for you.
Anonymous
This so much! I’m fine with self gardening and do it myself but so many gardening shows are degrading to women. So tired of women being called prudes because they are not comfortable with their SO getting off to gardening shows were women are degraded/hit etc
Enjoys gardening
I think you need to pick some different gardening shows. I’ve seen many and the stuff you describe you specifically have to go out and look for. The average gardening show does not including hitting or spitting on someone, nor pretending to r@pe them.
Anonymous
What kinds of gardening shows are you watching!? I don’t particularly get turned on by them and don’t use them for gardening, but I have seen enough to know that most gardening shows do not involve violence.
anon
I like and use gardening shows, both alone and with my husband. I’ve seen a lot of gardening shows, and in my experience, you have to go out of your way to look for that kind of stuff. There’s still some not to like about mainstream gardening shows, but really nothing like that. There’s some especially good material in the garden shows for ladies section, which DH also really likes a lot.
Obviously they don’t have to be your thing, but to categorize all or even most gardening shows that way isn’t really a reflection of reality.
Disgusted anon
Even the “best” shows are exploitative and anti-women,. Do plenty of otherwise nice men and women watch them and enjoy them, either alone or together? Sure – even feminists can make plenty of anti-feminist choices in their daily lives (and for the record, any brand of feminism that is pro-gardening-show and pro-prostitution is not a feminism I can support). I can’t stand when women are called prudes for not being into it. Gardening is one thing, but garden shows are problematic at the best of times and physically violent at the worst.
anon
Why is watching two people garden together necessarily exploitative and anti-women? I’m curious as to why you say this. I definitely think that a lot of the “mainstream” stuff is problematic even if it’s not violent. But I’ve also seen gardening shows where characters are portrayed in a mutually pleasurable, equitable way and are just really into each other- loving, even. It seems like you’re making a blanket statement about gardening shows on the assumption that the characteristics you list are necessarily common to all of them. I don’t get it.
I won’t call anyone a prude because it’s not like there’s something wrong with it, but yes, OP is somewhat on the “uptight” (or insert more neutral word here) end of the spectrum. And that’s okay! No one’s saying there’s anything wrong with her, just that she’s a bit of an outlier, and her expectations of her husband may not be totally realistic.
Also anon
Catching up on past threads…if you are still checking, you are not crazy and not prudish and the issue is not you. I found myself in a very similar situation (found out about the shows shortly before the wedding, though he had denied it when I asked previously). It was very, very hurtful to me, and the thought of it really messed with my approach to gardening for the next year. We had a frank discussion and he agreed to stop the “shows.” We check in with each other ever now and then and I have no reason not to trust him (and no, I’m not “naive” – some people respect each other enough to be honest). If it bothers you, you have every right to ask him to stop. Self-control and mutual respect are virtues in a marriage. Hugs.
Blundstones
Question about Chelsea boots! I’m thinking of buying a pair of Blundstones.
How do you style them? Jeans only? What about skirts/dresses? Can you wear them for business casual?
Anon
They are great for the weekend. Unless you’re in an extremely casual workplace I don’t see these boots being styled with skirts and dresses. The lines on the boots aren’t refined enough for most suits.
Anonymous
So, I’m a VP a few teams that in total have about 25 people on them. I am the only VP with such a small staff, and that’s because my teams are by nature highly paid individual contributors (strategy, product and marketing). I worked my butt off for 2 years and have a complete all-star team.
Our company switched to bell-curve and force-ranked performance reviews, where you must have a certain number of people rated in each of the 1-5 categories. In the larger departments, this is perfectly reasonable. In my department, I have exactly one non-all star. I am in an epic battle with HR over this because also in our company, being rated a 1 or a 2 means you automatically have to go on a PIP. There is only one person on my team that needs a PIP. “Your lowest ranked performer is Jane.” “Jane was ranked a 3 and is solidly meeting all my expectations.”
So frustrated. I report to our CEO, and my next stop is his office if this last conversation doesn’t go well. I will add cause someone to resign if I put them on a PIP.
TBK
I’ve never been in this position but this just seems colossally stupid to me. I get that there’s grade/performance inflation all over the place but forcing people to go on PIPs just because other people are marginally better strikes me as not only counter productive but culture destroying. (Also, WTF with assuming that your senior management is assembling teams that automatically have low performers on them. Shouldn’t the level of employee performance reflect the capability of the VP leading them?) No advice, just sympathy. I hope your CEO sees how silly this is.
Anonymous
I am just so mad! I also had 2 people that weren’t good fits (and may have turned into a 1 or a 2), and they resigned this year. Do i get any credit for that? No, because i didn’t have them on an action plan at the time (though I gave them both verbal warnings and the PIP would have been a next step). just kills me.
Anonymous
“(Also, WTF with assuming that your senior management is assembling teams that automatically have low performers on them. Shouldn’t the level of employee performance reflect the capability of the VP leading them?)”
THIS.
OP, I have a similar team and by its very nature everyone needs to be a pretty high performer or the team cannot function. A high-performing team is a sign of effective leadership which translates into ROI for the business. HR should not get in the way of that. If HR is making leadership decisions on behalf of the actual business units then that’s a real problem. I would push back but play your cards carefully within the politics of your particular organizational culture.
Anon
Nothing really but commiseration here. My company had that plan for about 5 years and it was the WORST. Forced ranking makes people compete against each other and not work collaboratively. The process never fair and people get s crewed all the time. The best people, those who don’t want to put up with it, leave the company.
Microsoft (which is not my company) abandoned this for good reason and you can find lots of articles online about why they did.
But I assume you can’t change the fact that your company is doing it. All I can tell you is to be honest with your staff and don’t rank the same person at the bottom two years in a row.
My company was clearly looking to get rid of people without paying severance. It worked and they then abandoned it.
Supes anons
I’m in that in-between time of not actively preventing or trying to get pregnant. I currently have 5 weeks of time off saved and would plan on taking at least 7 additional weeks at a reduced rate of pay. That being said, I’m trying to decide how much planning I should be doing in case I do become pregnant. Is it all about saving money?
Anonymous
What do you mean by planning? Setting aside money for baby-related expenses? Maximizing the paid time off you can get under your employer’s policy (and any applicable laws)? Reviewing your medical coverage to see what your costs might be for an uneventful pregnancy and delivery?
Supes anons
All of those things, I suppose. We’re in a pretty good place financially so there’s not much debt to pay down (student loans go away this summer and then we’re left with the mortgage) and I’m a reasonably healthy woman who doesn’t drink often. I’ve been preventing it for so long that now I feel like I should be preparing, if that makes sense.
Anonymous
Sign up for short term disability pronto – they have a 9 month exclusion policy, so you can’t sign up after you get pregnant. This can help defray the cost of the delivery, and can help if you’ll be taking any unpaid time off.
Not just me
My work doesn’t offer a policy. I know people have mentioned privately buying Aflak but I wasn’t able to find any on their website that you can purchase privately. Anyone else know of one?
Money
Hi guys – for anyone following my money saga, I’m sitting down this weekend to discuss details with my husband and we’re going to come up with a monthly budget and a plan.
Part of that plan is going to be what sort of financial vehicle to use for a fund for our daughter. I still need to research, but can you talk to me about 529 plans? It seems like they are popular, but from what little I’ve looked into, they HAVE to be used for educational purposes. So if, let’s say, she gets a full ride scholarship, or decides not to attend college for whatever reason, then we’re going to be taxed when we take that money out for non educational purposes. Is there a better way to save money in an account that can used however you want, and not solely for educational purposes? What are other people doing for future funds for their children? Thanks in advance for your continued advice.
Anonymous
Nope. You’re going to pay taxes on it at some point. Betting that your daughter won’t need the money for school seems delusional and if she doesn’t go to school she doesn’t need the money.
Anonymous
Good news on 529s is that there are ways to make them non child specific. Talk to a professional, but you can make yourself the beneficiary then use it to pay for any of the qualifying relatives’ education. So if you have 3 kids and 1 gets a scholarship, 1 goes to college at sticker, and one doesn’t go, you can use the money for the one with the tuition needs. You can also use it for grad school, housing, books, etc.
WestCoast Lawyer
I believe there is an exemption on the penalty for scholarships. Yes, there is a penalty if she doesn’t go to college and you use the money for something else, but it’s 10%. So you are basically betting that she will go to college but it’s not like you forfeit the money if she doesn’t. You just pay 10% higher taxes on the income than you would have paid if it was in a non-taxable account.
WestCoast Lawyer
http://www.savingforcollege.com/questions-answers/article.php?article_id=137
Opal
I think you should really, really, really consult professional help. Like, right now. Stop googling and asking for internet advice. Pick up the phone and make an introductory call to a firm and see what they’d charge for a good sit down with you and your husband, and book it.
Anonymous
Yup.
Opal
I just can’t believe that any plan you come up with is a good plan or the right plan. Internet advice is generic and not tailored to your extreme debt position. That, and just days ago you were admittedly clueless – what could you have truly learned or absorbed in just a few days that puts you in a position to develop an effective approach?
I absolutely commend you for devoting energy to fixing this, but you need to reallocate that energy to finding and engaging professional help.
pilates princess
Someone might want to fact check this, but this is why we are saving for our kids in 529s.
If the child gets a scholarship, you can take out that dollar-for-dollar amount and pay income taxes on it (possibly using the kid’s bracket), but you don’t pay the 10% penalty. You can also change the beneficiary to another kid or a future grandkid or a niece of nephew.
Any other savings vehicle you’ll pay cap gains on in the end. And at least in NY, where I am, there are upfront tax breaks on state taxes for funding 529s.
Anonymous
Keep in mind that the beneficiary can be changed at any time and it does not have to be used solely for a traditional four year education. She might still want to use it for a graduate degree, taking classes on a per-credit basis for continuing education (or you might want this), or you might have another kid, niece/nephew, or eventually grandkid who can use it.
Diana Barry
Look, IIRC you have a s***-ton of loans? Don’t worry about saving for your daughter yet. Pay off your loans (ESP the high interest ones) and max out your retirement accounts. Then reevaluate in a year and hopefully you will be in a better financial place then.
Anonymous
Yasssss.
You have 400k in student loans. With what money are you starting a 429 plan?
Anonymous
this times 1 million – saving for your daughter is not even on the table right now. put it out of your mind and pay off your loans – especially the above 7% ones!
Anonymous
Yes – by saving that money, you’re costing yourself much more in the long run – and when you pay off the loans sooner, you can use that savings for her college fund.
Anonymous
Yes, this.
Meg Murry
Am I remembering correctly that you are the person with $400k in student loan debt between you and your husband and you don’t have a clear plan on how long you will take to pay them off?
Call me crazy, but shouldn’t you first be prioritizing putting money toward those crazy student loans over a 529 for your daughter? Or is a 529 still a good idea for high earners since OP is also in a very high tax bracket? Is there some kind of calculator OP can use to compare putting money into a 529 vs putting the same money against her loans?
Can other posters please explain? I’ve never been in a super high tax bracket, so I’m focusing on paying down all our debt and saving for retirement over saving for my kid’s college funds at this point – because it makes zero sense to me to put money into a college fund for my kids if I’m still paying off my own student loans when they go to college.
Sydney Bristow
HOLD UP
First off, I don’t disagree with the advice that you get professional help. But if you’re going to get started on your own this is what I recommend.
You’re planning to sit down and make a budget this weekend, but you can’t really do that until you know where your money is going. As others recommended earlier, look over your past few months of bank statements and figure out what you’ve been spending. If I remember correctly, you have $8000/month in expenses. My guess is that you’ve been underestimating this.
So look back and figure out what you’ve spent each month on your fixed expenses:
Mortgage/rent
Car payments
Insurance
Student loan payments
Cell phone bills
Cable/internet
Annual fees (Prine, credit cards, magazines, etc)
Other monthly fees (Netflix, Hulu, etc)
Then determine what you’ve been spending in your variable categories, which I think is helpful to break down into smaller categories:
Groceries
Eating out (could also break out dinners out, lunches bought at work, daily coffee habit)
Pet expenses
Clothing
Other new purchases (books, candles, etc)
And then list out anything you’re throwing into savings.
Once you have all of this figured out, you can put all those numbers into a budget. I’d suggest you both track everything you Spend over the next month to see how closely your tracking fits in with your estimates. Then you can adjust those budget numbers and start looking at what you can cut.
I use YNAB for all of this. You can use whatever system you like, you just have to follow through with using whatever you pick.
Don’t worry about saving for your kid’s education until you have your own debt paid off and retirement under control. Otherwise you might need his/her help when you’re older. You can’t borrow for your own retirement.
Remember you can split your focus some. Personally I’m trying to pay off $200k of student loans and rebuild my emergency fund. So I put $500/month into the emergency fund and throw any non-budgeted money at my loans. Once I’m at $10k in my emergency funds I’ll be singularly focused on my loans.
You’ve had resources recommended to you but here are mine. YNAB webinar classes, Your Money or Your Life (book), Mr Money Mustache (blog), Suze Orman’s books and show, Dave Ramsey’s Total Money Makeover book and radio show (available as podcasts), and I Will Teach You To Be Rick (book).
TL;DR Be absolutely certain exactly where all of your money is going before making any big decisions.
Anon
Agree. The question isnt which college savings plan do we set up for our daughter? The question is how do a 4th year associate and a 6th year associate who collectively earn nearly 400K STILL have 400K in school loan debt??!!??
Meg Murry
+1 to all this
Plus, not to pile on, but weren’t you asking questions about things like brown bagging vs buying lunch? I think you need to look at the much bigger ticket items, like the 7% interest on loans, or ask some really hard questions like “I know our nanny and house cleaners are super amazing awesome but can we really afford them – should we look into a nanny share, daycare+evening babysitter or housecleaning 2x as often?” “Do we need to have cars at all or should we sell them?” “Can we really afford to be paying a mortgage on this condo or is this costing us way more than renting?”
I think rather than bog yourself down in tons of detail, which is just going to make you want to bury your head in the sand, you might need to first look at bigger buckets:
-Non-optional expenses (mortgage, nanny, utilities)
-Discretionary expenses (eating out, clothes, food – yes I know you have to eat, but it’s too easy to lump this into the non-optional)
-Savings
-Debt repayment
Then you need to look at where you can make the most difference – can you re-fi loans, go from nanny to daycare, etc and cut several thousand dollars that way to move from expenses to debt repayment and savings? You can make yourself crazy trying to save $1000 over the course of a year on food expenses by brown bagging daily- or you can look at the really big ticket expenses and cut those and save a lot more money in one swoop.
Ginjury
It may have already been suggested, but I highly, highly, recommend you read Elizabeth Warren’s book, All Your Worth. This book will really help you get a hold of your expenses and look at how you can change your big ticket spending, like Meg Murry suggested.
Don’t worry about anything other than figuring out where your money is going, reducing your spending, and paying off your student loans right now (in that order). I know you initially wrote asking how much you should fund your emergency fund before really focusing on paying down your student loans, I truly think you’re better off leaving it as it is and aggressively paying down your loans now. You’re losing money every month you have the loans and, if an emergency were to happen where you need to dip into that fund, I imagine you’d be able to restrict your spending enough to ride it out. If you can’t maintain all your necessary payments on the lesser earning spouse’s income, you really ought to take a harder look at your big bucket spending (mortgage, cars, insurance, etc.).
Gracie
My husband needs a new winter coat. He is a lawyer, and we live up north, so we would like this to be a warm and professional-looking thing. My husband is also quite tall and narrow-framed, but with a bit of a lawyer’s belly. Everything we have tried on has been gaping in the chest or too short in the arms or too tight in the waist. We would love something with slanted (?) pockets as well, rather than patch/straight-across pockets. Any recommendations from ‘ret-tes who shop for similarly shaped men? Thanks in advance!
Snickety
Sounds like he will need a tailor for a coat to fit well. If you’re looking at a classic wool overcoat, a good tailor can to handle it. Look for a coat that fits well in shoulders and has long enough sleeves.
Diana Barry
How ‘professional looking’? Like a wool topcoat? Or would a streamlined parka type thing work? Sounds like he needs a tall size and may need to have it taken in across the chest in order to fit him elsewhere.
Diana Barry
This Lands End topcoat comes in tall and is v reasonably priced with the right kind of pockets: http://www.landsend.com/products/mens-wool-herringbone-topcoat/id_244089?sku_0=::K39
lucy stone
My husband has the Lands’ End topcoat in solid black and loves it. http://www.landsend.com/products/mens-wool-topcoat/id_244090?sku_0=::BLA
Anonymous
Can I get some advice on how you all handle being in a place in life that you’re not crazy about?
I got divorced a year ago (very amicable), and once things were final, I packed everything up and moved to my dream city to pursue my passion. I had so much optimism. After a decade of having to make every decision to accommodate ex-H’s career, it was finally my turn! After three months of living off savings and networking like crazy, it became apparent that I wasn’t going to be able to get a job in my dream industry. I settled and took a job in my field, but in an industry that doesn’t suit me at all. Settling for this job also meant I had to leave my city and move an hour out into the suburbs (because that’s where the job is and paying city rents and commuting costs didn’t make financial sense).
So now, here I am 2 months into a job that isn’t remotely fulfilling, locked into a lease in the suburbs, and I’m so…disappointed. Yes, I’m still working in my field, and technically I’m broadening myself by learning about a different aspect of my field, but… I just thought that maybe since I was finally in charge of my own life, I would finally be able to have the life I imagined. I know it almost sounds juvenile; I know being an adult is about doing things we don’t like.
So how do I get over this and make the best of my situation for the next 10 months until I can leave gracefully at the 1 year mark? I plan to network as aggressively-yet-stealthily as possible to get into my industry, but that’s only an event or two per month. (And schlepping into the city for luncheons isn’t something I can do too often without drawing attention.) I miss my friends in the city desperately and will make a more concerted effort to see them regularly. What else can you recommend?
And I am seeing someone, and we absolutely agree there’s definite potential for a life together, but he’s only been divorced a couple months and is still working through some of that. So he’s not fully emotionally available (very intentional on his part – he says he doesn’t want to fall back into old affectionate or romantic habits out of habit, but because he’s fully invested in ME and wants to show ME that affection), and sometimes I feel that keenly.
Blergh, guys, blergh.
Senior Attorney
Honestly, it doesn’t sound that bad! You’ve got a new job, you’ve got a new man, you made it through the divorce in one piece! Maybe part of the blerghs is that there’s been this flurry of activity and now things are slowing down and you have a little time to process your losses (and yes, you’ve had losses!).
I recommend being gentle with yourself and remembering that lives don’t get remade overnight. I’m finally living the post-divorce life I imagined (pretty much, give or take), but I’m three years out and the first year and a half were very blerghy indeed. Just give yourself time.
Hugs! You are doing great!
Thank you (not OP)
This gives me so much hope! I’ve officially been divorced a year today! I’ve been really looking forward to the year mark. We were only married a year. I moved from a large city to the south to get married. We bought a house, which was very much my dream house, but we were completely miserable. The divorce process itself was fairly easy – it took 2 months – mainly because I gave him more to just get it over with and not have to drag it out indefinitely. The house miraculously sold for more than we bought it (even though we had only owned it a year).
I walked away with a fair share of debt from the divorce. But I rejoined my old firm, worked my a** off to exceed the billable hour requirement, and am set to get a bonus in March that will pay a huge chunk of it off. I’ll still have some (which I’m not happy about) but it helps to remember it’s a process. This time next year, I will be in an even better position. The change doesn’t happen overnight, but in small increments that are slowly leading towards the life I want.
Anonymous
Happy divorciversary! You’re right — next year will be even better!
Q: Why is divorce so expensive?
A: Because it’s worth it!
Senior Attorney
Oops, that was me!
Coach Laura
This is a hard one and you’re not out of line for feeling disappointed. Other than networking, seeing friends and enjoying the good parts of your life, could you start a blog, write articles or take a (free) online class in your dream field? Take a certification exam related or peripheral to your dream job? The Coursera classes are free and – depending on the field – might be useful.
And with the once a month networking events, once you’ve been to a few, could you invite people that you’ve met out for coffee afterward or drinks after work?
What are some other passions that could keep you distracted while you wait? Training for an event, planning a vacation, learning how to ski or kayak. Take up wine tasting (classes at the community college or wine store), gourmet cooking classes, language classes. All of these will also keep you meet more people in your dream city.
Wildkitten
Do you have other goals you can do while you are in the less awesome job? Learn to cook. Learn Italian. Join Crossfit. That way you are growing in new things while waiting to make the career move? And lots of networking is great. And it’s great that you found a job that pays rent – that’s the hardest part.
Senior Attorney
Can you join a service club in the city? The best thing I did was join my Rotary club? If you had a weekly luncheon in the city for something like that, would it still raise eyebrows at the job (as long as you made up the time, presumably)?
Senior Attorney
Or even a service club in the suburbs. At least you’d meet people, right?
C
I’m reading an interesting book, and the concept (though not unique) of “God wastes nothing” has been really calming to me. You’re being prepared for something.
In my life, I’ve only been able to build community by working side by side with others. I wish I could be in a place where I could meet friends at networking events or classes or places where you’re “supposed” to meet friends, but for my introverted self, it hasn’t happened. For me, I built community through starting a nonprofit, running with a running group (even if you’re slow, the group will have someone–check out local running store), and junior league, and also some committee work.
Anonymous OP
Thanks, everyone! Your remarks were like a light bulb going off for me!
I had allowed myself to think in a waiting time frame – “when this year is over,” “when New Guy is finally all-in,” and I had framed 2016 as something to endure until I could get to where I wanted to be.
So with your remarks in my mind, Friday after work I joined a gym out here in the suburbs with great equipment and classes. I also went into the city twice this weekend to meet up with friends. I was just so much happier being back in the city, even if it was just for lunch and dinner. At work this week, I’ll sign up for some professional development courses that are targeted more to the area I want to get back into (but they’re still related enough to what I do now that my current employer shouldn’t notice).
Thank you again. Sometimes we get so close to our own situation that it just seems like a giant mountain, and perspective is helpful :)
Blonde Lawyer
I’m curious if anyone else has found themselves more emotional with age. I’ve heard other people describe this after having kids but I don’t have any. In the past stuff on the news didn’t bother me. Now, I have to avoid it because even the headlines like “baby otter abandoned by mother cries out” (yup, actually read that today) makes me feel really sad. I’m thinking part of it might just be I worked in a job for years where I had to just shut off emotionally to do the work and after years of being in a normal job I might just have normal emotions back. But, I’ve been in a normal job for almost 10 years now so I would have expected my normal emotions to return quicker if it was just that. Maybe hormone fluctuations with age? I’m starting to feel like that person that could cry at a TV commercial. Actually, I’m pretty sure I got choked up at an insurance commercial recently. No, I’m not pregnant. I’m in my mid-30’s if that matters.
APC
LOL no kids here but I can get teary at certain commercials. Especially daddy-daughter things. AndI have a great relationship with my dad! No idea why but I agree I’ve gotten more emotional with age.
espresso bean
Several friends have said something similar to me recently, and we’re all also mid-30s. I wonder if it has something to do with having lived life a little longer than when we were in our 20s and everything seemed fresh, fun, and limitless, and having a greater appreciation for what’s good about it, but also more of a realization that life is unpredictable and ever-changing, so we feel things more deeply.
That was very ineloquent, but I can’t think of a better way to put it.
Wildkitten
I’m 30, no kids, and I cry at commercials.
This made me cry already today: http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/2015-was-okay#.co9gaDxKz
Blonde Lawyer
Were you always like that though or is it recent?
Wildkitten
For at least the past 8 years. Companies pay a lot of money to have compelling commercials made.
WildkittenBot
But I also had times when I cried at the drop of a hat and it was inappropriate and disruptive and anti-depressants fixed that issue. So if that’s your issues, not just adorable commercials, you might talk to a professional.
Pregunta
Is there a difference between Wildkitten and WildkittenBot?
Responder
I made a joke that all I do on here is tell people to get therapy and check out the Wirecutter and I should just make a robot who does that. So I am entertaining myself by calling myself out when that is what I do.
Blonde Lawyer
Thanks. When I posted originally I almost said “not pregnant and don’t need therapy” but I didn’t know if people would get the joke or not. I’m not depressed generally. Quite happy actually. Just that I am more emotional than I was in the past about both sad and happy things.
Anon
Buzzfeed no! I cannot handle the adopted kid in the tux and the dad getting soccer tickets. Cannot handle.
Blonde Lawyer
I waited until I was home to look at this and it is awesome. Thanks for sharing. The little boys birthday party!
Anon
Late 40s mom here. I keep my s hit together most of the time but recently at a holiday party when the host’s high school age son and his friends started singing Christmas carols in perfect harmonies I lost it so badly I had to leave the room. And I’m an atheist.
And forget it, anytime a baby is born on a tv show, no matter how cheesy, I’m a goner.
If it keeps getting worse I’m not going to be able to leave the house.
(Former) Clueless Summer
I have gotten more emotional as I age, I think. I’m almost 30 and I certainly feel things more keenly now. I have no kids but I do have pets, and I’ve noticed I can’t deal with sad animal-related articles anymore. I assume that if had kids, I feel that way about sad child-related articles.
Anon8
Same here. No kids, but three cats. I can’t deal with anything sad-animal related.
I feel like I’ve always been emotional, but as I’ve gotten older (I’m 38), I definitely feel more cynical and hopeless sometimes. From my perspective, the future for the world doesn’t look bright. I see things getting worse, not better. I rarely watch the news any more. I don’t know. I’ve never been diagnosed, but this could be my own issue with depression.
Jennifer
Yes, this. I am late twenties no kids, and just the difference since college is noticeable. I chalk it up to accumulating more genuine lows and more let-downs – a) I can’t just tell myself it will be alright (it may not ever be alright!), and b) it provokes some mixture of jealousy/inspiration/whatever now that I have a fuller understanding of the amount of work that goes into…everything worth having.
This makes me sound so depressed, which I’m not. Just much less optimistic?
Dahlia
This lovely anaesthetist I used to work with would say:
“It’s going to be alright in the end. If it’s not alright- it’s not the end.”
Somehow I found that comforting…. and I still tell myself that sometimes. It’s still pretty cynical, depending on how you define “the end” but it does make me feel that all terrible things pass as well, all days end, and.. well.. things will be alright. It’s my 30-something version of optimism I guess.
long-term travel?
Someone posted earlier this week about saving up in her 30s for a year of international travel. Curious to hear more from others who have done something similar. How much did you save? Was it hard to re-enter the workforce? How much time did you devote to fun and how much to learning new skills? Did you own property at home, and how hard was that to manage?
It sounds like such a cool thing to do, but I also read all the time on here and other places about how hard it is to re-enter the workforce after even a little time away, so I wonder how employers would react.
Long-term travel
I’m the poster who wrote about taking time off to travel, and I’m doing it in a very risk-adverse way: I have a job lined up for afterwards (clerking for a federal judge). I’m a lawyer, and I applied like crazy for clerkships until I got one. They generally hire 1.5 to 2 years in advance (sometimes even more, for the very competitive ones). I got my clerkship 1.5 years before it starts, so that gave me plenty of time to wrap up my job and get ready to leave on my trip. I started saving years ago, because this has always been a dream of mine. In terms of $$, you need FAR less than you think, depending on where you want to go and your willingness to rough it. I’ve budgeted out about $40K for 8 months of travel, but that’s going to some more expensive places and doing a mix of hostels and nicer hotels. I’ve seen RTW travel blogs with budgets of $15K/year (traveling in SE Asia and other cheap places and living like a backpacker). Being willing to fly somewhere on a one-way ticket and then travel overland after that (as opposed to tons of flights) helps keep costs down. FWIW, those aren’t my only savings, that’s just what I’ve budgeted for the trip; I think if you can it makes sense to have far more than your trip budget available in case of worst case scenarios. I lease my apartment, so I’m just letting it go. I’m storing all my stuff. I’m planning to spend 1-2 months living somewhere learning a language and the rest just HAVING FUN.
In terms of how employers will react… I know there will be some more conservative future employers who will look at the gap in my resume and assume I got fired from my firm, or think that I’m flaky, etc. I’m not too too worried about that; it’s fairly common to take some time off after BigLaw and around clerkships, I just will have slightly more time. I hope that whatever negative this has will be counteracted by the fact that I’ll be applying for jobs from a federal clerkship.
Long-term travel
Just realized I used the same handle you, reading comprehension fail! Sorry about that.
Dahlia
I did this at a similar natural gap in jobs and spent 8 months in Africa. I bought an old junky vehicle and drove it from South Africa up the east coast of the continent to Ethiopia. It’s pretty rare for people to ask me about the gap in my resume (its been a few years and honestly I don’t think people notice) but whenever they do, I tell them about the trip and people have always responded really well. They usually have lots of questions, seem excited about it, and talk about wishing they had done something like that. It’s only ever seemed like a positive in interviews.
I’m not in a lawyer but I’m in a competitive, conservative field.
the gold digger
I was a Peace Corps volunteer after grad school (MBA). It took me 18 months to find a job after I got back to the US, even though I had been in a business program and had solid documented results on my resume, ie, increased revenues and margins.
I would do it again. It was one of the best experiences of my life. Take the time when you can!
I did not own property, so that was not an issue. My friends who did rented out their places using property managers.
b2b
Another wedding question:
I’m having a Friday wedding with dinner afterward, then a quasi-reception event on the following Saturday — brunch + a fun regional field trip. We’re sending formal invitations soon. Should I split the two events into two separate reception cards? Or should the bigger event have a larger card, more like its own separate invitation?
Thanks for any help with this, and for all the collective wedding wisdom from the Hive. All you wedding alums are much appreciated.
Anonymous
You’re overthinking this. Put it all on one card, split it, whatever, it doesn’t matter.
And wedding alums sounds silly.
Anonymous
Unhelpful; just forego a response next time.
Troll Hunter
Uggggghhhh Trollnonymous, give it a rest.
APC
Really its whatever you want to do. I think if I were invited to something like this I would expect the Friday wedding/dinner to be on a bigger, separate invite card, and the saturday brunch/trip to be an enclosure ‘help us keep the celebration going’ or something like that. but it’s definitely whatever you want.
rosie
I would have the ceremony & dinner listed on the main invitation, and then a separate/smaller event card about the brunch. That reflects my preference that that main reception/meal/etc. be immediately following the wedding, though.
anne-on
I’d treat the reception after your wedding as the ‘main’ reception, and send an additional insert card for the separate day one. Plus all of the information for both events probably won’t fit onto one card.
I’d also have two lines on your RSVP cards so you know who is able to come to which events.
Anonymous
You’re having a wedding on Friday.
Saturday you’re doing brunch and baseball by the sounds of it.
Your reception is Friday, Saturday is just a fun extra thing, I’d put them on two cards.
Senior Attorney
I think this pretty much sums it up. Sounds like a fun weekend!
Wildkitten
Is Saturday a whole week after the wedding, or the day after?
Anonymous
Day after.
Anonymous
Feigned confusion in order to make a pedantic writing point—- I just love the Internet.
Anonymous
Seriously? It’s honestly confusing the way OP wrote it and it might make a difference in what the answer is.
Anonymous
I was also actually confused.
Wildkitten
Not feigned at all.
Anonymous
I literally thought until right now that it was the following weekend and was thinking that was sort of crazy. Relieved to know the guests don’t need to set aside two weekends! With current wedding craziness, you never know…
hoola hoopa
+1
Definitely two RSVPs.
SC
Another vote for 2 cards and a way to RSVP to either event separately. It’s 2 events on 2 separate days, and I would find it confusing to have all the information on one card. I like the idea of saying, “Help us keep the celebration going” for the Saturday event.
Anon for this
I’m going to be traveling to a wedding soon with a good friend, and it’s forcing all sorts of uncomfortable questions about the nature of our friendship, some coming from my female BFF and some in my own head. I feel like I am hesitant to commit to any feelings because I don’t want to screw our friendship. (Both late 20’s professionals, both single) We do spend a great deal of time together from running errands to workout out, eating out, cooking dinner, etc. and I’ve had people external to the situation ask me if there is something going on.
Seeking anecdata/general life advice on possible non-platonic feels for a friend you’ve never had reason to believe is interested in you in a non-platonic way over the several years of your friendship. What if the wedding after party turns in to a private garden party in our hotel room…?
Anonymous
“What if the wedding after party turns in to a private garden party in our hotel room…?” So what if it does? It means you have mutual feelings for each other and then you can explore them.
It sounds to me from your question like you like this guy and you’re wondering if he likes you back. In my experience, a guy will rarely be platonic friends with a girl for several years and then just wake up one day and *boom* he’s in love, like in the movies. I’m not saying it never happens, but it doesn’t happen nearly as much as rom-coms would have you believe. But if you like him, put it out there (maybe after the wedding though, so he’s not super uncomfortable if he turns you down and then you still have to share a room). It might make the friendship awkward for a bit if he’s not interested, but if you’re good friends and he’s a good person, you’ll get past it. One of my very best friends is a guy who asked me out/pursued me freshman year of college. I turned him down (not all that nicely, I might add) but we got through it and became very close platonic friends (he was a “bridesman” in my wedding).
Monday
Whenever this question comes up, I think of my closest male friend. At one point he seemed to express interest in me, and then at a different point I sort of floated an interest in him, but it never took, and we are now both happily married to other people. It has never been a big deal because, surprisingly to both of us, just being mature about it and prioritizing our friendship allowed us to stay close (with brief breaks at times, yes). Nothing physical ever happened between us, but I think things would have been fine regardless. So: if this is a truly good friend and a solid adult, I wouldn’t worry about it. You hook up and stay friends, fine; you become a couple, fine; nothing happens at all, fine.
Anonymous
Then you get lucky?
Personally, I’d kiss him on the way home from the wedding and see what happens!
Anon
Yes.
I was in a similar situation (traveling with a ‘friend’ who I had a giant crush on and we clearly had chemistry) and one of my most brash, sarcastic friends got sick of me overthinking and said, ‘Just stick your tongue down his throat and see how it goes.
That was 8 years ago. We’ve been very happily married for 3 1/2 years and have a beautiful baby.
Ems
I love this. :)
Maud
I thought that this was about your female BFF and was WAY more interested.
meara
me too! I was like “well, gosh, it seems unlikely she’s also secretly feeling kinda gay, but…” And then I re-read and oh, totally different.
Senior Attorney
LOL me three!
Anonymous
Ha! Me four.
Rarara
So what? I had a similar situation although we stopped the party shortly before entering the garden. It was extremely weird for a week or two, until we talked it and our feelings out, and then our friendship recovered. It wasnt exactly the same but probably better because of the clarity. The end.
Go for it!
Anonymous
Based on your post, it doesn’t sound like he is straight.
Anonymous
What makes you say that?
Anon
Was in pretty much the exact same situation… Flash forward and we are a few years in to the best relationship of my life.
SA
My husband and I kept thinking we were just friends, we both got feelings for each other when the other was in a relationship, were each nice to each other but held the line of not cheating on the other’s SO. We never traveled together but spent nights at each other’s houses. The first opportunity when we were both single he invited me to be his +1 to a friends event and we’ve been together ever since.
My point? I think you should remain open to the possibility. It was weird, but 16 years of marriage and 2 awesome kids later it was worth it!
Anonymous
Quick! I have meetings at a conference this weekend that are probably called “Smart casual” (mostly men who will be wearing jeans, button down, sport coat). Will a pair of paisley ankle pants (Talbots) and a black cashmere pullover with a black chunky necklace work? I don’t have a jacket that will work with it. .
Senior Attorney
It would probably be okay but personally I’d try to find an outfit with a jacket. Both to step up the “smart” factor and also because those stupid conference rooms are always freezing!
Meg Murry
+1 to finding a jacket if possible, plus wearing pants you can wear with real, warm socks (instead of ankle pants with flats or heels) to minimize the freezing conference room effect.
I think what you suggested sounds fine, but I always plan to layer at conferences because you never know what kind of situation you will be in, but it’s almost always too cold and almost never too warm
Aurora
That sounds perfectly smart causal to me. I don’t think you’ll need a jacket but I don’t think one would hurt. However, hair, makeup, and shoes will also impact whether the look you’ve described is acceptable – I think with polished hair, clean makeup (maybe lipstick), a neat manicure, and heels or dressy flats, this will look much more smart casual than if you show up bare-faced with your hair in a messy bun.
(I just recently did a post on “smart” vs “business” casual! http://www.theofficerblog.com/#!From-Biz-to-Caz/cmbz/5601e3830cf256c0bf977f97)
TBK
Like pretty much everyone else right now I’m in the “eat healthier and exercise” early January phase. While I have some stubborn baby weight I would seriously love to take off, I really want to focus not on the scale but on being generally healthy. If that means I stay at this weight, fine, and if it means I lose a few pounds that’s fine, too. But I’m having trouble framing this all since in the past I’ve been really numbers focused (calories, grams of protein, calories burned, pounds lost, etc.). I want an approach that’s going to help me feel better, have energy, be healthy in the long term for my family, set a good example for my children, and just be the best me I can be. Any tips for setting these kinds of goals? Also, how much exercise is “enough”? I’ve lately been hardly exercising at all, but in the way past (pre-marriage and pre-kids past) “enough” exercise was at least 6 tough hours/week (running, martial arts, etc.) and for a awhile several 2 a days per week. I know all those PSAs suggest that “any” exercise is good, but seriously walking up two flights of stairs a day instead of taking the elevator is not enough. Just want to set reasonable goals that are attainable, sensible, and healthy and finding it oddly difficult.
Anon
Maybe it would help to work towards something specific? Are you a runner? You could focus on improving your 5k or 10k time, which would involve both improving endurance and strength. Or do you like lifting weights? You could pick a couple sets to improve on. Or do you just want to form a better habit? Commit to 3 20 minute walks per week, or doing 3 exercise videos (I like committing to Jillian Michael’s 30-day shred, even if it takes me longer to work through the 3 phases.), or working through the New Rules of Lifting for Women. I also like to time my mile run before starting a plan and then after so I get a sense of how I have improved. You could pick a different measurement too.
KittyKat
If you are into numbers use numbers. There are plenty of ways to track your fitness that are truly about health. Count servings of fruits and veggies in a week, how many hours of sleep, gallons of water you drink ect. There are lots of more macro holistic things that are about health and not weightloss.
Monday
Have you read Intuitive Eating? It includes a section on exercise but is mostly about food. It’s not really about “goals,” but maybe you’re not really about goals right now either? I like it a lot as a philosophy/reframe.
TBK
I did and twice I’ve tried implementing it but both times I packed on pounds, panicked because my clothes didn’t fit, and cut way back just so I didn’t have to run out and buy a new wardrobe (I know she says you’ll gain weight at first, but I cannot afford to literally not fit into any of my suits thank you). I should say I don’t have any particular history with weight/eating issues. I’ve been slightly overweight a lot of my life but don’t come from a background that was really sensitive to that, so I’ve been okay with it for the most part. So the panicking wasn’t “OMG the scale is going up!” but “oh s—t I can’t wear my clothes.”
Anonymous
The American Heart Association recommends 150 minutes of moderate or 75 minutes of intense exercise per week, plus strength training 2 days a week. Maybe that is somewhere to start?
With respect to eating healthier, you could probably focus one eating more of a healthy food, like eating at least 5 servings of veggies a day.
anne-on
As a parent I find my workout time is more governed by my work schedule and how much time away from my family I’m willing to give up. Honestly I just can’t manage to work out more than 3-4/week now, and less if I’m traveling. I try to focus on making those workouts really ‘count’ so, if I’ve got an hour, I’m working out HARD for that hour (interval runs, weights, rowing, core work, etc). I do some yoga/balance stuff but to me that doesn’t tick the box of ‘super challenging enough to also be a stress reliever’.
I also found it really helpful to frame my eating in terms of ‘would I feed my child this?’ – so, do I want my kid eating carbs/fatty food/takeout/no fruits veggies every day? no, of course not. so why would I feed myself that way? So now we all eat more fruits/veggies/lean protein/fewer treats/less takeout. That’s not to say we don’t go out to eat, or have treats, its just a ‘some of the time food’ as they say on Sesame Street :)
TBK
This is all really spot on for me. Thanks! Yes, exercise is really about when do I actually have time available and that way of thinking about food is really great. I’m much more strict about what I feed the kiddos than with what I feed myself. And lucky for me they’re now old enough that they realize when I’m feeding myself something tastier than I’ve fed them and so no snacking on chocolate bonbons while I feed them brown rice and salmon anymore.
Aurora
PopSugar fitness has a “just press play” program for January, with the goal of getting you back in the habit of exercising every day, even if it’s minimal – most of the videos are 5-15 minutes. It’s been a really helpful start for me so far to just develop a healthier routine with the idea that once I just get in the habit of setting aside ~some~ time every day, it will be easier for me to set aside more time later.
As for eating, I’ve found just committing to reading ingredients and keeping minimal amounts of processed foods have really helped me make positive changes. Reading the sausage package and realizing it’s got added sugar, and instead buying a brand of meat without all the additives, isn’t hard once you make the switch, but it really helped me pause and think about what food I’m bringing home.
Finally, if your kids are old enough to notice what foods you are eating vs. they are eating, you can start helping them develop healthy habits (and reinforce your own) by enlisting their help and giving them some agency in the foods they eat. For example, even toddlers are old enough to help you prep a snack drawer – on Sunday, spend 30 minutes filling baggies with apple slices, carrots, mini bell peppers, string cheese or yogurt, portions of Goldfish crackers, sliced melons, berries, etc., so that when you’re out of ideas, you grab something healthy.
Wildkitten
Ooh thank you for the PopSugar just press play recommendation. I am going to check that out.
Clementine
I am solidly in the ‘the best workout is whatever one you actually will do’ camp. With twin toddlers, I’m thinking that some speedy HIIT workouts are on your side.
Post-baby, I’ve found that the Fitness Blender workouts on YouTube (they’re free! no/minimal equipment! You can do them in your living room or garage or basement or bedroom!) are a godsend. There are tons of really good 15-30 minute workouts that get your heart pumping and work the major muscle groups.
Diet-wise, I’m personally working on just reminding myself that I’m modeling what my kid will do. I grew up with my mother having a lot of self food shame (she still has it!) and I carried that with me. I also learned patterns from her like not eating all afternoon and walking in the door so ravenous that you down 500 calories worth of tortilla chips before you take your coat off. I don’t want to pass that on and reminding myself of that fact helps me plan ahead far enough to have apples and single serve plain yogurt available to me as an alternative.
All this must come with the caveat that in the few weeks before and few weeks after my kid’s birth, when for the first time in my life I was being told eat more calories! whatever tastes palatable, eat it! I have developed a rather serious cookie addiction. For years I had turned down the cookie and once the floodgates opened… it’s been dangerous. Ah well, all things in moderation, right?
anon
I love 12 Minute Athlete! The workouts are hard and I can almost always carve 12 minutes out of my evening.
Anonymous
Could you set goals like….I will run a 10min mile this week…..next week, I will do 3 km in 20 min, etc?
That really helped me! I have only lost 1.5″ all over in the last 8-10 months but that’s almost a size and makes me feel good.
Anon
I was feeling totally stymied about how to get a handle on my eating/food/weight issues. Weight Watchers historically makes me crazy, low-carb diets are unsustainable for me, and intuitive eating got me to a very, very high weight. So over the fall I did a whole 30, which is a program where you cut out dairy, sugar, legumes, grains, soy, and alcohol. The impact of all of that is that you eat a ton of fruit, vegetables, and meat. And it’s been incredibly helpful for me. It is very restrictive in some ways – in that I am not eating entire food groups. But as it turns out, that’s easier for me than trying to restrict calories. I don’t count calories and I don’t worry about the scale, but I feel much better. I’ve learned so much about my relationship with food, my hunger levels, and what actually makes my body feel healthy and strong (NOT DAIRY!). My energy levels are better (no more post-lunch crash) and I feel really, really great. I don’t intend to eat this way forever, but it’s been so useful for me to make this big change and experiment.
Gretchen Rubin says that there are two kinds of people: abstainers and moderators. It turns out that with respect to some foods (like cookies and baked goods), I’m an abstainer. I can’t eat that stuff in moderation. It doesn’t satisfy my craving to just have one good square of dark chocolate, or just eat one small cookie. If I’m going to eat a cookie, I end up eating a bunch of cookies. So for me, it’s been so helpful to just cut that stuff out of my diet entirely and stop negotiating with myself. I would much rather restrict entire food groups than try to count calories. I know others are totally different and I really respect that. But for me, this has been a very useful tool.
I’m still working my way towards the kinds of long-term goals you described. But making incremental changes wasn’t really working for me, so I thought I’d describe this big 30-day change to see if it resonates at all with you.
Protocol
Interview protocol question:
I am the Leader of Team A in Division Widgets. This morning, I interviewed for a Leader position of Team B in Division Services (a much bigger team and division) within the same company. I interviewed with the Divisional President and his key deputy. Interviews generally went well – I am happy with my performance. Do I:
1) Send a quick thank you note via email to both
2) Send a quick thank you note only to the divisonal president
3) Do nothing because this is an internal job posting and possible transition
4) Other
hoola hoopa
1
Anon
I just had an internal interview this morning as well, so I am eager to hear feedback!
Anonymous
#1
Anonymous
Anyone else read the Paul, Weiss amicus brief? I’m finding it very powerful and inspiring.
Senior Attorney
Wow! Just read it! Powerful and inspiring, indeed!
Wildkitten
I printed it to read this afternoon but I already love it.
Anonymous
I’m guessing this is the amicus that a poster was asking about what affiliation to sign with.
Anonymous
Oooooh I bet. Good detective work!
professional affiliation
yes! that’s me.
Snickety
Thank you and all of the other women who signed on.
professional affiliation
ps,. really really really appreciate the supportive comments. this s the first time I have publicly (name used) siad that I’ve been in this situation. And it makes me feel very vulnerable, but it’s really important for me to do this now.
cbackson
Thank you for your bravery in putting your name to this. These are vitally important stories for people to read – and I encourage everyone in the community here to read this. It is an incredible act of courage, not only because it requires disclosing that you had an abortion (which is highly stigmatized), but also because the stories told in the brief are so personal in other ways.
I found myself incredibly moved by this, and I really urge everyone to read it. If you are opposed to abortion, it may not change your mind, but it will give you insight into why so many women view this right as essential, and that kind of understanding is critical to an informed and civil public conversation.
bridget
Cbackson, I think all pro-lifers should read it, because it reminds us why the movement is so important.
For whatever choices an adult doesn’t have because of pregnancy, she is removing an order of magnitude more rights from her child. That baby won’t ever be a lawyer, because of abortion – that baby won’t be able to go to college, write amicus briefs, or find a spouse because of abortion. At least a woman has the option of resuming her (deferred) dreams.
Sorry to be a wet blanket, but I loathe the assumption that pro-life people “need to understand” strong women or crap like that.
Anonymous
Shut up. You have no place in this discussion.
Blonde Lawyer
If you really want to support your cause, I hope instead of just trying to restrict access to legal and safe abortions that you are working to change society so a pregnancy doesn’t mean game over or deferred dreams for any woman. If there was a social safety net so women had paid leave from work or school with no judgment for using it, safe and affordable child care, no stigma about becoming pregnant at a young age, and many other societal improvements (free birth control was a huge step) the rate of abortion would go way down.
Anonymous
+1 to Blonde Lawyer. Very good points and well said.
cbackson
I’m sorry that’s your take-away from reading this document. Not because that perspective isn’t relevant to the societal issues at play, but because to me, the powerful message here is that our society puts barriers in front of pregnant women that force them into very difficult choices – where parenthood and pursuing education or parenthood and leaving poverty become mutually incompatible, and that’s relevant to all sides of this issue.
I don’t think my comment suggests in any way that you need to “understand strong women” (whatever that means). But it sounds like it wasn’t clear enough, so I’ll try again: the reason I’d recommend this to all my pro-life brothers and sisters is that there is often a strong narrative that women who choose abortion are selfish; I think this brief clarifies just how trapped many women with an unplanned pregnancy feel and that the choice isn’t about deferring dreams, but about losing them. And not just dreams of a high-powered legal career, but dreams like freedom from abuse, or having enough food on the table, or being able to complete high school.
People who care about women and children ought to be able to find commonality 0n this: we should be better, as a society, about supporting pregnant women, so that more women don’t feel like that is the choice that they face. People should care about that on the pro-choice side, because women should be truly free to choose, including to choose to parent. People should care about that on the pro-life side because that will reduce abortions.
rly?
“Sorry to be a wet blanket, but I loathe the assumption that pro-life people “need to understand” strong women or crap like that”
Please consider why you probably are you on the receiving end of this “assumption.” You clearly don’t understand the point of the brief. Your entire response to a woman’s explanation of her reasons for having an abortion is “well now baby can’t get married! Abortion worse for baby! Selfish!” You display no empathy or attempt at compassion for women or the circumstances they find themselves in. You present no solutions. You refer to women’s attempt to better their own lives through their strength as “crap like that.” You say ill-thought out remarks like “At least a woman has the option of resuming her (deferred) dreams.” This is a naive and often erroneous assumption. The reality of the situation is that motherhood in tremendously less than ideal circumstances doesn’t just mean that a woman goes to law school 2 years later, it means a woman and her child doomed to generational poverty, et al. cbackson’s response to you is right on.
Anonymous
Adding thanks and kudos. You are brave and generous.
Anonymous
The music are meant for professional affiliation, in case it’s not clear.
WildkittenBot
This is awesome! Thank you!
Anonymous
You are so awesome. Thank you!!!!
Anon
Not an attorney here and I’ve never had an abortion, but HUGE thumbs up to you!!!!!
Anonymous
Thank you for doing this! You are brave and awesome and just… RAWR!!!
NYNY
You are awesome for signing on to this! Thank you!
Senior Attorney
Wow! I find it thrilling that at least!) one of us C- t t e s is a signatory to this important and fabulous document. Well done and thank you!
Wildkitten
Right? Me too.
Anonymous
I want to say that I am generally left-leaning, but have qualms over abortion issues. Those qualms are still there, but I found the brief courageous and iconoclastic, and it will be in my mind whenever I consider abortion issues.
Jez
Piling on the congrats and thanks and rawrs to you. This is so important. Thank you!
Betty
Truly amazing. Thank you to all who signed their names. Teared up reading the names.
Care
Thank you! It was so powerful to read and it was so brave of you (and all of the others) to sign.
Maud
Thank you. I appreciate your bravery.
Anonymous
Adding on the kudos. That was incredibly brave and important.
I read it this morning and was so impressed by all the women including you.
meara
serious thumbs up. so impressed.
UGN
Amazing brief — so powerful and so unlike any brief I’ve read before. Thank you.
anon associate
THANK YOU!!
And huge congrats to you for your courage. Amazing. I’m a young lawyer who is super passionate about reproductive rights but sort of keeps it on the DL at this point in my career (at least, the extent of my passion for it, except for good friends). I’m really inspired by this. Reading this makes me tear up with gratitude for you and your colleagues and rage for the women who have fewer options.
Anonymous
Your brief says so much, for so many. THANK YOU for your courage!
Marion
Big thanks to all of you – your stories matter!
Sydney Bristow
Thank you!
Greensleeves
Another thank you! Just read the brief and it was amazing. I am thrilled that so many women were willing to participate.
lucy stone
I love everything about this brief. Kudos to those women.
Bonnie
Here’s a link to the brief: http://www.reproductiverights.org/sites/crr.civicactions.net/files/documents/Janice%20Macavoy%20Paul%20Weiss.pdf
Kudos to you professional affiliation.
Blonde Lawyer
Just printed to read tonight. Thanks.
Shopaholic
Thanks for the link – going to read it this weekend!
Abbie Carmichael
I’ve sent it to a couple of my girlfriends, I loved it so much. And I’m so grateful that there were so many women who signed on.
Anonymous
Awesome! Though I’m slightly freaking out at the number of stories that have “I had an IUD and still got pregnant.”
Anonymous
That’s what I was thinking too! Especially in light of yesterday’s birth control discussions.
Wildkitten
ME TOO.
Ekaterin Nile
Me three!
Seriously, my thanks to the women who were courageous enough to sign their names to this brief.
Anonymous
Just read this. So moving. Proud to be a female attorney.
For NOLA, from the morning thread
Following up on this morning’s thread about travel in Italy, I want to give a note of caution re: Trenitalia. We took the overnight train from Venice to Rome. In the chaos of getting off the train in Rome, someone walked by our cabin, picked up DH’s backpack and walked off with a new laptop, etc. DH was in the cabin, but had his back to the door and the backpack was on the bunk. I was on the platform with the kids. This resulted in multiple hours trying to work with the transit police and then at the police station in Rome. Not surprisingly, this is apparently quite common and the backpack and its contents were never seen again. This is not to badmouth the train, Italy, or anything else, but just a warning to be watchful.
Veronica Mars
Also be careful on those trains for pick pockets and scammers. Someone came by on our train to Venice and asked my group of friends and I for something like 1-5 euros so he could pay for his ticket (or some other reason, I can’t remember because I was listening to music and not paying attention). Three of my friends gave him money and as soon as he exited the train realized they’d been scammed.
the gold digger
I was standing in the train station in Rome with my backpack on a trolley in front of me while my friend made a phone call. A man approached me from the left and indicated he wanted a light for his cigarette. I turned to look at him and to explain patiently that I DID NOT SMOKE and in the second wasn’t looking, someone grabbed my backpack from the right.
A little old Italian man saw what happened, rescued my backpack, which had my dirty laundry and my 35mm camera in it, returned it to me, and scolded me for not being more careful.
I thought I was being super careful, but it took one second for me to get distracted.
Anon
How were they scammed? Because he didn’t really buy a ticket?
Anonymous
Yeah, I don’t get how this is a scam.
Veronica Mars
It was more high-pressure than what I’ve described. After he got the money, he just exited the train, never to be seen again–so yeah, definitely not buying a ticket. He may or may not have promised to pay them back, I’m not sure. Scam may not be the right word, but he basically preyed on the fact that these Americans were unfamiliar with clean-cut, seemingly honest people demanding money. All in all, we made it out lucky since that was the only “scam-like” thing that happened during the whole trip (one girl got her phone stolen, but given the circumstances, I would’ve expected the same to happen in the US).
Anonymous
That happens everywhere, even in the US.
Ems
Yep. My sister had her laptop stolen on the NJ transit.
My aunt had her purse stolen out of the airport cart at JFK while she and my other aunt loaded the larger suitcase. Thus, always secure your purse before you spend time loading other stuff.
NOLA
Thanks! I’ve taken trains in Italy and have traveled with a female friend in Europe and I’m always very very careful. I think living in a city like this has made me both careful and suspicious.
Anonymous
How do you store your Christmas tree ornaments? I have an increasing supply of single ornaments that did not come in a box. I have enough of them now that I decently large container, but I don’t want to shove a bunch of delicate ornaments (even if I individually wrap them) in a giant plastic tub. I saw an ornament storage container on Amazon (link in reply) and wonder if anyone has used anything similar? Or has some other storage solution? I’ll store them in garage that has some insulation but it’s not temperature controlled. Thanks!
Anonymous
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0048RJD0Y?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
Bess Marvin
I have this one and love it.
Wildkitten
Get it. You can store some ornaments hanging and some you can put in there. Real fragile ones you’ll still want to individually wrap. I have a plastic one from Target and while it’s not perfect its much better than putting them all in a box together.
Diana Barry
I use boxes, like Harry & David pear boxes (perfect size!) or just any small- to medium-size box with a lot of tissue paper. I make sure the boxes have substantial strength/crush test potential so they won’t get squished in storage.
Carrots
My mom used dividers for a plastic tub. I’m not sure where she got it from, but it was essentially a piece of cardboard and then smaller pieces that created individual slots for each ornament and then she could stack them. She would wrap each ornament separately, but they weren’t touching each other. Link below shows something similar.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_120782-89738-HD-607278_0__
LawGirl
I’ve use this for years. Love it.
http://www.amazon.com/Snapware-Paksh-Christmas-Container-Stackable/dp/B0178IBFVO/ref=sr_1_1?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1452283954&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=ornament+storage+box&psc=1
KinCA
We use these containers from the Container Store.
http://www.containerstore.com/s/moving-shipping-storage/holiday-storage/wing-lid-ornament-storage-box/12d?productId=10009223&utm_source=channelintelligence&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=google
Senior Attorney
I just want to thank you for posting this. Because of this thread I went down the internet rabbit hole of Christmas storage containers, ordered some, and now I get to wait until they arrive to take down the Christmas stuff! Yay!
Anon
I individually wrap each one in either newspaper or bubble wrap (and save it every year to reuse) then put them in old popcorn tins with lids. I don’t pack it super full, but full enough so they don’t move around and add in extra padding if necessary.
Anonymama
Wrapped in tissue/newspaper/bubble wrap in a couple plastic tubs. We have a lot of delicate ornaments but honestly they are so light that we haven’t had problems with breakage.(well, with breakage related to storing, the kids and dog are another story…) Just use more padding for the more delicate ones, and maybe put soft ones in between if they’re handy. Also sometimes it row in that foam wrap or whatever paddin came in the last round of Amazon packages.
law clerk
I’m currently clerking for a judge. I attend a lot of networking/bar events and people have been asking me for a business card. I’d like to get some made, but what should I put on it? name + “attorney” or name + “judicial law clerk”… what is proper etiquette for this?
Thanks!
Ellen
I asked my judge’s clerk and she does NOT have oficial card’s made up and she said it would be to presumptus to have private card’s made up unless you intend to be in the job along time. She said to ask you HOW LONG you will be clearking, and if it is less then 2 year’s just put your PERSONAL informaiton Gmail, etc, on the card and tell the guy you are giving the busness card to that you are a LAW CLERK for a Judge and your job will onley last until XXXXX.
If the job is longer term or permanent, then YES, a card stating your status and your BUSNESS infomation should be put on the card. That way they can call you at work.
When I got out of law school, I was thinkeing of getting busness card’s made up with my own information b/c I did NOT want peeople to call me at the Supeenie office, where the phone was answered by this smelley slob who ALWAYS ate smelley food, and always stared at me and expected me to date him. FOOEY!
Wildkitten
Wild Kitten
Harvard Law School Class of 2015
202-555-555
Wildkittenr3tt3@gmail dot com
Wildkitten
Or attorney if you want it to last a while, but I think if you are clerking as your first year out of law school, the graduation date is really helpful information to explain yourself.
law clerk
I’ve been out for several years (2009, yikes!). I just made a jump from biglaw to career clerk.
Senior Attorney
Don’t clerks get business cards? When I was a career clerk we obviously did. We were called “judicial attorneys.”
law clerk
Nope! I technically work for the county (state court). Will likely be here at least another 2-3 years. It’s not a term clerk position.
Senior Attorney
That’s nuts.
I can’t imagine why your judge would object to your having some business cards printed up with your job title and contact info, given that you will be there for several years. But yes, clear it with him/her.
Senior Attorney
And (still shaking my head at the ridiculousness of you not having business cards) — really? No government-issued business cards? For realsies? Have you talked to whatever administrator did your hiring paperwork? That’s just crazy…
AIMS
Just make a card that lists your position. To be extra safe, you could check with the judge if this is okay. I know someone who works for a state court and doesn’t get business cards and did this – it looks official, court admin didn’t mind, and it’s useful for networking.
bridget
First name, middle initial, last name
Next line: Attorney
Elsewhere on the card: your personal contact information.
I would suggest against putting “judicial clerk” or your work info on the card without the explicit permission of your judge.
People really just want to know how to keep in touch with you.
Anonymous
So true. You do need to explicitly consent to a fetus nesting in your womb.
Oh wait, off topic and unwelcome?
Wildkitten
Also – you can write on your card how you met or what you talked about when you give it to the person, to trigger their memory better than a semi-blank card.
Bonnie
Shoe advice please. I broke my big toe and the doctor told me to wear only hard soled shoes. Because of the location of the break, I can’t wear any of my flats because they rub up against the break. The only shoes that have worked are tall boots but I am headed into trial and need something jury appropriate. Thoughts?
Senior Attorney
My thought is it might be easier to just tell the jury you are wearing boots because you have a broken toe and they are the only shoes that work per doctor’s orders!
Wildkitten
I don’t think a jury will mind you wearing professional boots.
Clementine
Danskos work for this. They have a rigid sole and while not the most attractive things ever, they beat a lot of the options.
Fishie
+1
Anonymous
Shoes marketed toward people with foot problems, like plantar fasciitis, usually have hard soles (like Danskos, though they are not always the best looking shoe). Also, the kind of shoe you’d see on Footsmart, Vionic, maybe Rockports. If you have shoes with space in them, you could try a harder insole to harden up the shoes you already have, but it would probably mean less room for your toes.
Blonde Lawyer
Medical shoe so it is clear why you aren’t in typical shoes?
Like this:
http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/mabis-healthcare-blue-mesh-post-op-shoe-mens/ID=prod6089701-product?ext=gooHome_Health_Care_Solutions_PLA_Post-Op_Shoes_prod6089701_pla&adtype=pla&kpid=sku6081123&sst=5440d136-6bb9-439d-af02-895e3692801b
M-C
Totally agree with one ostentatiously medical shoe – then you can wear whatever you think is appropriate on the other foot, any stumbling is explained without needing to go into how you’re not drunk, and as a plus you’re less likely to be stepped on by distracted people. They aren’t really meant to do anything to your foot as much as to other people’s brains.
trefoil
I’m probably outing myself with this, but I broke my foot mid-trial in front of a jury and ended up finishing the trial wearing one heel and one aircast. Because the jury saw me fall, the sheriff let them know that yes, I had broken it and that I’d be in the cast for the duration of the trial. (I went to the ER over the lunch break, and no one commented when I came back bare-legged, having had to take off my tights for x-rays.)
Can you let the sheriff or clerk know so that they can tell the judge why you’re in boots, or wear a pantsuit so they’re not visible? (I wear tall boots to provincial court all the time but never to superior court.)
Bonnie
That’s pretty bad ass trefoil.
Anonymous
Did you win the case?!?!?!?!!
Bonnie
The judge will not let me explain my shoe choice to the jury or let us sit for jury selection. I may wear the boot for jury selection and try danskos or sneakers with an insole. Thanks for the suggestions. You guys always have great ideas.
cara
I have gray ankle boots very similar to these, and I find them insanely versatile.
Way off-topic: home security system–yea or nay?
I did not grow up with one and have never had one, nor have I ever lived in a place with a doorman/lobby cameras/similar surveillance. My husband and I recently bought a house in our major city; it’s on a very nice, neighborhood-oriented block (so everyone has a porch light that stays on all night, etc.). I have never personally felt unsafe in the 6+ years that I’ve lived in this area, but we do hear about muggings/break-ins (cars more often than homes) in the neighborhood with some regularity, and we hear of assaults, shootings, and sexual assaults a few times a year. One of my colleagues had a rather horrifying home invasion experience last spring (everybody’s fine, and thank goodness the kids slept through it, but it was very traumatic for him and his wife), though, so although I am not being a total Cassandra I understand that these things can happen.
I haven’t ever felt a *need* for a home security system, but I guess I’m wondering if it’s one of those things–like a CO monitor–that Responsible Home-Owning Grown-Ups install. Are they worth it? Are they annoying when you’re out of town and someone else is feeding the cats? Do they just feed paranoia? Are they a deterrent? Can you link them to call emergency services in the event of some other home disaster?
I don’t know if this needs to be included here, but I’m decidedly not interested in any kind of conversation that involves guns.
Anon
I sleep better at night due to our alarm system, especially when my husband is out of town. I don’t know for certain, but I think it would be a deterrent if someone broke in because of the loud noise the alarm makes. We can also type in a code that makes it look like we turned the alarm off, but actually notifies the police (so if someone was forcing you to turn the alarm off.) I am a kind of paranoid criminal defense attorney, however, haha!
Cat
I did not grow up with one (suburban, perhaps exurban, neighborhood), and didn’t have one when living in a doorman condo building, but now that hubs and I are in a downtown townhouse, definitely have one. Like Anon above, I’d hope to deter anyone who DID break in with the noise of the alarm. We get a decent discount on our homeowner’s insurance and our system includes a camera that automatically begins recording when the alarm is triggered.
Some systems can be interconnected with smoke alarms, or include floor monitors for some plumbing catastrophe, but we didn’t opt for those features at this point.
Anon NC2
Re: cat sitters- our system came with key chain remotes with simple on and off buttons to press. No code to type, etc. My Mom is on the ditzy side of technology but she can handle a car- key type remote easily…
Care
Mine helps me sleep at night. We have a pretty extensive system (motion detectors in rooms that could be entered by smashing glass doors/windows, etc.) but I’m in a medium-threat area. When I lived in suburbia, we also had one. You can have a system installed but not monitored, so no one calls you when it goes off but it makes the loud noise or you can have it monitored and they call you and then the police if it goes off. We pay for the service and some kind of fee to the city. I’ve had it go off with cleaning services entering, but it’s never been a problem because the monitoring service calls me first and I know its probably just the cleaning service.
There was a horrifying story in my neighborhood fb group about a woman whose house was broken into because they left the garage open one night and the robbers got into and out of the house while the whole family slept upstairs. She had a system but it wasn’t set because she wasn’t paying for it to be monitored. At least it would have woken them had it been set!
Anonymous
We don’t have one. Our house was broken into the 3rd week we moved into our super low crime town. We got a dog the next week and skipped the alarm system. That dog barked the second someone came onto our property and he was big and loud. There were a few times he work us up barking and every single time it was for a good reason. Once, a group of tipsy teens was stumbling around the street and onto our lawn. Once our neighbor’s house had a gas leak and trucks parked on our lawn.
That dog was the best alarm system in the world.
Anonymous
We got an alarm system because of our dogs. I was worried when they are home alone in the case of a fire, so we have the smoke alarm connected. We don’t even set it when we are home, just when the dogs are home alone!
Wildkitten
I have both. I prefer the dog, but appreciate the alarm system.
Anonymous
When I got burglarized this summer, the condo next door also got broken into. She has a greyhound. They assaulted the dog.
Dogs aren’t enough.
Anonymous
Am the anon that posted about the dog. Our dog would have either stopped/bit the intruder or taken a bullet trying. It wasn’t intentional but he was a pretty solid protector. He was a big, black Rottie/Pit/other mix, loved family deeply and was trained to back off but without that command would bite.
Now- if you are concerned about a home invasion where the dog barks in alert (and wakes you), you dial 911, the intruders continue to try to enter the home, get in, shoot the dog and go for the family, then I’m actually not sure what an alarm system would do. It’d also dial 911 for you but seems like in both scenarios help would be too late, no?
If your dog is a woofing-but-otherwise-friendly dog, the above is way different. Dog I grew up with would have barked, licked a robbed’s face and shown him to the fine jewelry in hopes of a steak.
SH
SO is a police officer. He says that a house alarm only alerts the police that a crime has happened, it doesn’t really deter someone who is intent on stealing your stuff from stealing your stuff. He’s worked a lot of home robberies where the homeowner is amazed that the thieves continued to take things while the alarm was blaring, and didn’t actually leave until the police showed up one or two minutes later. A lot of stuff can get thrown in a bag in 90 seconds.
However, they are helpful if they are connected to the smoke/carbon monoxide alarms. I think I would have one for that reason alone.
victim
I was broken into this summer. Condo, 2nd floor, small building (3 floors, 2 condos per floor). Nice suburb right on the edge of major city. I never feel unsafe here per se, but in our area criminals from nearby city edge (depressed area) come here frequently as it is close and more to steal.
They stole my mother’s jewelry. She is no longer living, so quite upsetting for me.
The cops were quite helpful in giving us advice. They are big fans of security systems. In fact, in the past year they had not had any successful break-ins in homes with systems. They said that even having a sign (clearly displayed) that you have a system is a major deterrent, so they recommend buying one online and putting that up even if you don’t buy a security system. Make sure your doors all have true deadbolt locks (not fake ones…). They also like a metal plate adjacent to the dead bolt that helps prevent someone from prying the door open quickly. A reputable locksmith can install these at very reasonable prices. There are simple latch things you can put on windows to prevent them from being opened wide enough to enter from the outside.
But importantly – Know your neighbors. Say hello to them. Look at their faces, so you recognize them and they recognize you. Let them know if you will be away/moving, so if they see something suspicious there will be a chance they might report it. Know what the risks are in your area.
Several of my neighbors saw my break-in happening…. and did nothing. One man even looked long and hard at the suspicious criminal as they were breaking in, thinking he would need to give an ID later and describe the face….. yet did nothing. He didn’t call the cops. He didn’t tell anyone. When the cops arrived he did nothing. When emails/posters went up asking if anyone saw anything, he told nothing. My upstairs neighbor heard it the break in, and looked out to see why it was so noisy. Didn’t text me/email me (she has these) or do anything.
I got SimpliSafe, which was recommended on this webs!te (thank you!). You order it online, choosing the size/type of monitors that works best for your home. It is relatively inexpensive. You install it yourself and can bring it with you if/when you move to a new condo/house. You can use it just as an audible alarm without any monthly charges. Or if you want it hooked (using the wireless phone networks and internet) to their service office so the police/fire are contacted, you pay a low monthly fee. Much cheaper than other well-known security companies that lock you in to pricey monthly contracts. There are lots of discounts you can find, and if someone refers you, you/they get another discount. Often your home owners/renters insurance will give you a small discount for having a security system. My system also has a smoke detector, so the fire department will be alerted if needed.
It is true that very experienced burglars will still steal stuff for several seconds if they are used to the alarms. But that is not the norm in my area, as most burglars want an easy break in and many will still be startled by an alarm. For this reason, remember that the things they like to steal are things left out in the open that are easy to grab and run…… small computers/iphones/tablets, cash, jewelry, and medications from your bathroom. They look for “charging” stations for small electronics where things are left plugged in. They very quickly look for purses. They focus on traditional places jewelry is kept ….. in bedrooms/drawers, and your bathroom medicine cabinet looking for meds (and my mother’s jewelry…..). So the police recommend keeping jewelry in less typical places so there is a lower likelihood it will be found quickly. They will look quickly into your desk.
And the vast majority of break-ins occur during the day – not at night. Burglars generally want to do their thing when no one is home. The cops are always surprised that people don’t know this.
Now after this long reply, I am embarrassed to say my security system is sitting in its box 5 feet away and I haven’t installed it yet. I will do it this weekend……!!!
Bonnie
No alarm but we do have a surveillance camera. Burglars aren’t discouraged by alarms because they know it will take a few minutes for the police to arrive. Cameras are a bigger concern for them.
Amelia Bedelia
I was due in late June and took an 8 day trip to Paris in early April. I also traveled for work extensively in Europe up until 4 weeks before my due date (had to have a doctor note to get on the plane).It was fine. European hospitals are wonderful. I have had to visit a Swiss and and Italian hospital at various times (one for a pregnancy emergency and another for stitches after falling (pre-pregnancy several years ago)). They were both excellent experiences. A lot of Europeans speak English, and I found the staff very kind and attentive and eager to help the dumb American who didn’t speak their respective languages! And other than doing things differently (different approach to medication and room sharing and the like), I didn’t find it better or worse than most major US hospitals.
Love the boots - but don't pay full price
In lucky sizes and colors, these boots (which I love) are under $100 on Kenneth Cole’s website.
Love the boots - but don't pay full price
Sorry, right at $100 ($101, specifically). And a better size selection on Amazon, also discounted.
aquitalia boots---worth the price?
any thoughts before I pull the trigger?
Anonymous
Definitely yes. I love mine – comfortable, cute, rubber sole, warm (fuzzy lined). Lasted many years commuting to work in snow.
boots
Yes, I do love. I waited until the deep discounts came out (around this time of year), and had already determined my best Aquitalia size so that I could buy from websites that had some quite cheap as “final sale”.
I take good care of them, cleaning off any snow/salt after wearing, and re-protecting them (weatherproof) every year…. just in case.
I also love my La Candienne’s and have several pairs in different styles (suede vs. nylon-ish, bootie, knee high, black and colored).
For me, Aquitalias and La Candienne’s are worth the price because they are high quality, fit well, comfortable, waterproof, styles that transition to work wear for me (I have no place to store shoes, so must wear boots all day) and these last. But I never pay full price.
Eliza
Very worth it. I rarely buy suede shoes as I don’t find the leather wears well, but my suede Aquatalia boots have worn like iron, are waterproof, and are super comfortable. Love them.
Supes anons
Just noticed I posted this as a reply to a completely unrelated comment. Sorry, reposting!!
I’m in that in-between time of not actively preventing or trying to get pregnant. I currently have 5 weeks of time off saved and would plan on taking at least 7 additional weeks at a reduced rate of pay. That being said, I’m trying to decide how much planning I should be doing in case I do become pregnant. Is it all about saving money?
Wildkitten
You might try the moms site – they’d know best.
Diane Lockheart
I am looking to buy a nice briefcase for my son as a birthday present. He is a 2L and will be working next summer in Big Law for a LA firm. What brands and types of briefcases (assuming they still carry them) do young male lawyers like? He saw a Tumi one he liked. I suggested Brooks Brothers but he did not like anything there.
Wildkitten
I’d get a young male California lawyer a really nice professional timbuk2: http://www.timbuk2.com/hudson-ipad-macbook-briefcase/505.html?dwvar_505_size=7&dwvar_505_color=2199
Anonymous
My husband bought an Alpha bravo Tumi bag when he was a first year associate and uses it two years later, every day. It fits his laptop and paperwork easily. He picked this one because (1) the leather TUMI bags looked like it was for older partners; (2) it didn’t look as “expensive” and he did not want the partners to immediately appreciate how expensive his bag was; (3) it was more water resistant because it wasn’t leather; (4) the leather bags were heavier (we have a walk/train commute). Make sure that whatever you get him fits the right size lap top – in law school I used a 13 inch, but my law firm gave us 15 inch.
Randi
Pretty off topic but I’m looking for new bathroom towels And wondering if anyone has favorites not uber expensive but something that’s soft.
Digby
I like the Fieldcrest towels from Target – seem to be well-made, and they’re pretty soft/absorbent.
Anonymous
Can you ladies help me process some complex emotions? I recently found out that something terrible is happening to a person who was cruel to me for a long time. I went no contact with this person quite a while ago but our social circles overlap. My initial reaction to this news was… glee. I obviously didn’t let the messenger know how I actually felt; I made the appropriate “I’m so sorry” noises. And now I feel terrible for being happy that something awful is happening to someone else, no matter how karmic it may seem. I’m pretty taken aback by myself. I didn’t think I was so petty and mean. Has anyone been through somethig like this? Or am I just horrible?
Wildkitten
You’re not horrible. You’re completely normal. You didn’t cause the bad thing to happen, and your glee didn’t make it any worse than it already was. You are fine. You are not petty or mean. You are kind and thoughtful, as evidenced by your guilt about your happiness. It’s okay to be happy when bad things happen to bad people. We all do it. Carry on.
Yes...
You are not horrible.
I’m a little embarrassed to say, I have had similar emotions. It is very human, and you have to be forgive to yourself. A couple times I have been upset with myself that I still have them, and wonder if I could every transition to a “better” place where I can forgive all for past crimes. I have not been able to do this for this person, but with time I suspect I will. It is actually unhealthy, for me, to hang on to such anger. I’m working on it. Maybe I need to learn more about Buddhism…
I’ll admit my event. A co-worker at a very high stakes, high profile job position actively thwarted me and underminded me and put my job and future at risk for her own personal gain. It shocked me because I worked in a relatively ruthless place, and she posed as not only an ally but a friend, and turned on me for relatively so little to gain on her own. She was also openly cruel to me, smiled/laughed, and made me realize she was at her core a type of person I had never known up close…. someone with a completely different value system. Possibly even a little psychopathic….
And what was her terrible life event that happened? She had a baby, who was severely severely disabled. Something horrific… no chance of ever developing neurologically from the mind of an infant. My first thought? She deserved it. Gulp…. Now she’ll have to think of someone other than herself. Karma. Then I couldn’t believe what I was thinking…. particularly since her terrible life event included another person (her child) and was disproportionally bad compared with what she did to me.
The people I have been able to forgive for past cruelty are family. A have a parent who is mentally ill, and went through some terrible life events that led to some awful things in his treatment of me. I have been able to forgive and block it out, but I will never forget. And now I feel pain for my father for new terrible things that have happened to him since. That is still a better place to be. But it is still not easy.
Anonymous
Wait no that is really horrible! Happy she had a severely disabled child? That’s not acceptable.
anonymous
Maybe it is horrible, but we all do/feel horrible things. It’s normal, and I’m pretty sure she doesn’t ACTUALLY feel happy about the disabled child. I have wished all kinds of death and destruction on the people who abused me, but I’ve never really wanted anything bad to happen to them or anything. In my experience it’s a reflexive response to being hurt, and that’s all. I think there’s a difference between that kind of reflexive response and a more deeply held happiness at someone else’s misfortune. The first is normal, even if it’s about a severely disabled child. The second gets really problematic really fast.
Anonymous
You’re not horrible. This seems like a really normal reaction. It’s not like you personally are retaliating against their cruelty. The few times I’ve been in similar situations, it’s more like an “ah, thank you universe” moment. Like you, I do keep these feelings to myself. Also normal.
M-C
Horrible things happen to really good people all the time, people we love. That is truly upsetting. I think it’s important to celebrate when they also happen to cruel people, just so we’re reminded that death gets us -all- in the end and cruelty doesn’t help in the long run. You’re not a horrible person, please enjoy this even to the hilt. Even if you feel like somewhat obligated to enjoy it in private :-).
Ems
Karma’s a bitch. Isn’t this what we tell ourselves when people are being HORRIBLE to other people, and when you see it in action, I think it’s normal to be happy about it.
Actually, the wharton professor’s book on how nice people finish better made me feel better about bullying that I was a victim of in law school (stupid 2L wanted to be president of my student group instead of me and undercut me in so many stupid little ways) because in it, he writes about how “users” such as the Enron executives, are eventually found out and LOSE OUT. I’m still waiting for her to be found out as a user. But I digress.
Senior Attorney
I can think of a person or two whose misfortune I would greet with (private) glee. You’re not horrible — you’re human.
Anonymous
My high school gym teacher, who caused me a lot of issues and was generally like not a good person and certainly not somebody I liked, died of cancer after I graduated. Everybody was going on about how good of a person she was and I just chose to not really interact but good grief was I sick of hearing it. So no. I think this is a normal emotion. And karma is a thing.
Blonde Lawyer
It’s so normal there is a word for it: schadenfreude.
Anonymous
I was laid off from a job where I worked incredibly hard shortly after I had a baby. They fired me because of the baby (thought it showed a lack of commitment) and because they thought they could hire two male junior lawyers to do my job for less than what they paid me (they couldn’t). One of my bosses can’t have kids (wife can’t get pregnant and they seem to be struggling to adopt). They desperately want kids. And honestly I’m delighted. Because that boss was a horrible person. I feel a bit bad for his wife but serves her higher for marrying such a horrible person.
X
I just taught my cousin’s soon-to-be-ex wife the word schadenfreude. He’s divorcing her in part because she gained weight. Don’t get me started. She’s still thinner than me!
He was supposed to go to Mexico last Tuesday with a new girlfriend that he’d only been dating for 2 weeks, but the reservations got screwed up. Schadenfreude!
I won’t go into the details of their story, except to say that his mother (my aunt) is an anorexic and an alcoholic. And he gets his ideal body type from her.
Anonymous
In the process of setting up a home office. Thinking a filing cabinet, desk, three chairs, bookshelf, printer and scanner. None of it needs to be all that fancy but I’d like to be comfortable and I’d like it to look presentable. Anyway set something like this up? Just wondering about budget and what is reasonable. I would like to do it for well under seven hundred.
Bonnie
Ikea has surprisingly nice office furniture. You can also find these items cheap on Craigslist from offices going out of business.
S
Advice would be great!
I am basically fresh out of college and just started a great job. I have noticed, however, people really seemed to have expected someone much older than me to fill my current position. Okay, so by “noticed” what I mean is I literally hear people talking about it, my office walls are pretty thin. Due to this, I feel as though I am not really being taken seriously, which is an issue, as a lot of work in my position is time sensitive (requires me to set deadlines for others) and I find people just don’t want to listen to “some kid”, essentially. I know that with time and hard work, I will eventually earn respect, however, is there anything extra I should be doing in the short term that may help? I dress professionally and feel that I do a good job, but I am just running into this age issue in terms of being taken seriously. I am not seeking any special treatment, I just want to be treated like any other person in the office. On the same note, I have a shared assistant (myself and one other person) who is much older than I am. She has been very sweet about it, but I just feel an awkwardness there as well. Any tips to get acclimated and accepted despite my age?
Anonymous
I finished my program at least three years ahead of most people. So I encountered this kind of thing a lot.
1. Don’t reference your age in a way that puts people down. Do not ever make anyone else feel old or that they were slower to accomplish things than you were. If people try to have these discussions with you shut it down.
2. Act as professional as possible. Don’t gossip, don’t get in any office drama. Don’t shut people out either. There is a medium in there somewhere. Make sure you are dressed for your office- if you look more or less professional than everyone else you will look younger.
3. Make sure you don’t have some kind of idiotic young looking haircut. I had waist length hair and it went. No blue hair, no feathers no crazy.
4. Don’t let your assistant mother you. Let her do assistant things. Don’t ask her to do anything more than her job even if other people do. There is a reason assistants are assistants. Maybe she loves what she does and is happy there. There is no reason for you to believe she is resentful of you. Be assertive and be sure of yourself.
5. Drop all bad millennial habits. Texting all day, headphones etc. Even if other people walk around all day texting don’t do it.
6. If you continue to have problems consider talking to HR. They might notice something you don’t.
7. Leave an email trail. Have a conversation with someone about a deadline and email that person with a reminder about the conversation
and confirm deadlines. This way of people keep ignoring you it will be clear that it’s not you.
anon3L
Regular reader, first time poster!
I’ve started a new job (lobbying, but in a casual part of the country), and I’m trying to figure out winter footwear.
1) Can I wear burgundy low heeled pumps with a navy suit? Too flashy? It seems like it should work, it’s just new to me.
2) Winter footwear: can folks direct me to old threads about it? I walk to work (about a mile), so I’ve been wearing boots. It’s very cold here, sub-zero temps last week. I walk from the office to the legislative building, so walkable shoes are a must. Can I get validation that nice boots are okay? Any warm alternatives I’m not thinking of? I think I’d look like an idiot scaling the ice in pumps, honestly. Other cold weather professional footwear choices? (I hate pants – always wear a pencil skirt or suit dress.)
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