This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
Something on your mind? Chat about it here.
This vegan bag looks great if you're looking for an affordable bag, especially if you want one in a bright color!
The vegan brand House of Want is new to me, but Nordstrom has a ton of their bags right now in a zillion colors — bright orange, lavender, pink, light blue, brown — as well as your basic black, beige, white, and navy. The brand seems best for people who prefer smaller bags. (A lot of the lower starred reviews note that they'd thought the bag would be bigger.)
The brand also has really fun clutches! Bags are $58–$118; the specific bag pictured is $98.
P.S. Happy Holi to those who celebrate!
This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
anon
Controversial topic alert
Have we discussed Lia Thomas recently, now that she’s won the title? I was surprised I hadn’t seen it but may have missed it. Basically, I feel like it is anti-feminist and totally unacceptable, so that is my prior. But I would like to hear a defense of it. I can’t even conceive of one, honestly, so wondering if I’m missing something.
Julia
There was a nuanced article in the New Yorker about it: https://www.newyorker.com/sports/sporting-scene/how-one-swimmer-became-the-focus-of-a-debate-about-trans-athletes
I think it’s important to remember that it’s a complicated situation for trans women in sports. Their bodies DO change as a result of hormone therapy, especially when it’s suppressing testosterone. Not that having gone through testosterone-driven puberty wouldn’t still remain a physical advantage. But it’s not inherently “anti-feminist” — it’s a difficult situation for trans folks to navigate and I think it makes sense to approach with a sense of empathy/understanding/grace. A lot of the discourse has tried to insist that she is actually a man, which is cruel and in a lot of ways just thinly veiled transphobia.
Anon
+1. I would argue that it isn’t thinly veiled at all, it’s just flat out transphobia.
Anon
This “A lot of the discourse has tried to insist that she is actually a man, which is cruel and in a lot of ways just thinly veiled transphobia” is absolutely cruel and transphobia, and not thinly veiled.
I don’t have all the answers, but anyone referring to her as a “man” isn’t interested in engaging in thoughtful discussions or looking for solutions that aren’t excluding trans athletes.
I’m so thankful for Adidas’ I’m Possible ad campaign. It makes me so proud to see kids like my daughter represented.
Anon
It feels to me like we’ve been moving backwards in recent years. My area’s high school field hockey league went co-ed back in the 90’s because there was interest, but not enough to field separate boys teams. We had girls, trans-girls (maybe – nobody cared about what parts someone had under their uniform) and boys on teams throughout the area. We were better teams and better athletes for it. It truly wasn’t a big deal because we were all there to play hockey. I hope things turn a corner by the time your daughter is navigating high school sports.
Anon
My daughter was in club and high school field hockey. Club had combined male and female practice teams, and some tournaments allowed combined competition teams, around middle school age. Some of the girls had gone through puberty but most of the boys probably hadn’t.
Then puberty happened and even on the combined practice teams, the boys were consistently smoking the girls. They were bigger, stronger, and sadly more individually competitive and less “go team” (testosterone is a b1tch.) Even the most talented girls on the team couldn’t keep up.
It’s not fair to the girls to keep the teams combined after this point, which is why club and high school teams start to separate them. There are real differences once puberty hits.
I say this as a straight woman with a husband and a son. I’m a feminist. I believe in equal opportunities. But I also believe in women’s sports. If everything is genderless, 99% of elite athletes are going to be male.
Anon
That was not my experienced with gender integrated field hockey at all, and it was the varsity team. The whole reason boys started joining the team was because the boys soccer team served as our practice squad. Some of them figured out they liked field hockey more. I’m so thankful for our coaches, who pushed us to be better athletes no matter our gender or gender presentation (but the uniform bottomwas the kilt, no matter what, LOL…. I guess they had to bow to tradition one way or another).
Anon
But the physical advantages of someone who went through puberty as a man isn’t transphobia, it’s science. So do we end up with all of the female champions being transwomen? Is that fair to cis women? These are real issues in women’s sports and it’s not productive to say “I won’t discuss this because it’s transphobic.”
Women’s sports are already at such a disadvantage anyway compared to men’s sports.
anon
This is where I fall. Live your truth, that’s cool. But let’s not pretend this doesn’t have a real impact on women’s athletics.
Anon
Same.
Anon
“A lot of the discourse has tried to insist that she is actually a man, which is cruel and in a lot of ways just thinly veiled transphobia.”
Calling a transgender woman a man is transphobic and not productive at all to an actual, good faith
conversation about this topic. Calling out transphobia in this conversation is not counterproductive and literally no one said “I won’t discuss this because it’s transphobic.” Difficult conversations require nuance.
Anon
same
Anon
@4:07 nuance isn’t calling everyone who disagrees with you a T E R F, that’s for sure.
Not saying that’s what you’re doing now, but I see a lot of shutting down of people who are just trying to explore the issue with statements like “tr@ns women are women full stop” throwing around labels like t e r f and tr@nsphobic to get people who just aren’t there yet to shut up. And that’s not productive or nuanced either.
A
Agreed. Her physical development happened before she transitioned. If saying that makes me a terf, then blindly refusing to accept the science makes others anti feminist.
I refuse to be blindly woke at the expense of basic science.
Anon
I have read that some teammates (who might not want to share a changing room with the full men’s swim team) do not want to share a locker room with someone who hasn’t had bottom surgery (I guess there is a reason that is known?). I do feel like for younger kids (high school and younger), I would tell girls that they should not have to change in front of some they are not comfortable changing in front of.
I think that for kids, this is very hard all around.
Anon
Curious for your source on this. If this is true, seems like the kids would also be uncomfortable sharing a locker room with teammates who are gay or lesbian. Certainly there are more out athletes, so this would have come up before.
In my experience (parent to a trans daughter), it is the other way around. A trans kid is vastly more private with their body and seeks out places to change that keep them protected/private. It’s always been so frustrating to hear people kvetch about bathrooms because, believe me, no one is more private or protective of their privacy than my kid or her friends.
Anon
It seems that some teammates / parents have the direct line to someone at the Daily Mail on many of the issues noted here.
Anonymous
Yea I agree this is just a silly “fear” that people like to talk about but probably would be a non-issue in practice. If you don’t want to see someone nude who hasn’t had bottom surgery then…. don’t look? It’s pretty simple. It’s been almost 20 years since I’ve been a school athlete, but we definitely didn’t just hang around without our clothes on and I highly doubt athletes do that now.
I want trans athletes to be able to participate. I also don’t want cis girls to never have a chance at winning in physical sports. I think most reasonable people agree with both of those ideals, so with the help of more information as time goes on, I am hopeful we will come to a good solution.
Anon
You know, I was personally in a situation where a biological male was changing in a beachside open (no stalls) shower/changing room with my teenage daughter and her friends. He or she was not private about their body and we never knew whether it was an exhibitionism/voyeur moment or whether they were a trans person in the changing room that felt most appropriate for their gender, but it was definitely unsettling.
I say personally because I was just outside the door waiting for the girls and when this male looking person exited in male looking street clothes I was really concerned. I felt responsible for all of them, of course.
I am not so much of a prude as to be all that concerned whether my daughter and her friends were scarred by seeing male anatomy. It was more how they might have felt about maybe? maybe not?being leered at by someone who just wanted to see some nude teen bodies. I don’t know what the right thing to do would have been, but by the time I saw what was happening it had already happened.
I am a big lefty liberal and this really made me concerned about predators using politics to get what they’re after.
Anon
I feel like having women’s sports is like how wrestling demands that wrestlers compete by weight (which I realize that everyone games, but typically doesn’t have someone 5-0 trying to compete against someone who is 6-5), to keep the competition fair. The NCAA seems to have realized that it messed up here and has changed the rules (but grandfathered this year).
I wonder if the outrage could be quelled in an individual sport like swimming by just having people compete against whomever (I’d swim against the men’s team to push myself more, much like how women’s teams use men to scrimmage against) but awarding prizes in the typical men’s and women’s categories and also a new “open” division. To me, that would mute the issue that natal (? IDK how to say this) women’s accomplishments against their peers are not recognized. IDK how this works with Title 9 where you have scholarship spots that come with $, but in the Ivy League my understanding is that while admissions may consider athletic merit, scholarships are just need-based.
Julia
I posted a link that’s waiting in moderation, but one excerpt from the New Yorker article talked about how trans women’s bodies do lose strength and muscle mass from testosterone-suppressing hormones. It’s not the most cut-and-dry topic.
“Joanna Harper is a nationally ranked master’s runner. For a long time, she competed alongside men. But, in 2004, she decided to begin hormone-replacement therapy and compete in the category of her gender identity, as a woman. She began taking a drug to suppress her testosterone, plus a small dose of estrogen. She was startled by how quickly and comprehensively her body changed. She had expected to add a minute or two to her ten-thousand-metre time, but, in less than a year, she was running a full five minutes slower than before. Within two years, she was doing roughly as well against women as she had done before her transition, running against men.”
Anon
I wonder, for sports like running and swimming, if you compete with gender A (for start times and training and such), does it follow that you compete against them for awards? Like I used to run a race in the stroller division and we got a later start time (due to congestion of strollers), but now I’m just in a general start time where everyone starts at the same time and it’s hella stratified by gender and age (but why not stratify further, b/c full-fledged female puberty affects performance, so I can see keeping that group separate for awards purposes).
Anon
That’s the beauty of running – you’re not actually competing against other people, you’re competing against the clock. Sure there are other people in the race – it’s not a time trial start, but outside of the truly, truly elite who use rabbits, it’s a solitary pursuit, even if there’s a social aspect of it for a lot of us.
Anon
I have a trans daughter, and this is true.
Anon
That may be true and yet feelings of other women or girls are . . . not important?
Anon
Anon @ 3:06: Where did she say that the feelings of other women and girls are not important? Get out of here with your TERF BS
Anon
Thank you @ 4:09. My daughter, who is utterly amazing and wonderful, has face more in her young life than anyone else I know. You don’t get to invalidate her and/or her perspective in the guise of a “safe space.”
Anon
Bur swimming is a sport that relies a lot on height.
The real solution for swimming is probably to have people swim a certain number of body lengths in open water, but that’s much more important to level the playing field within genders.
Anonymous
No because she wants to compete against women. And women need and deserve athletics where they only compete against people who are actually women.
Anon
This is just transphobia though! “Actually women” clearly indicates you don’t believe trans people’s gender counts.
I think it’s kind of impossible to have a dialogue about this conversation in pragmatic, grounded terms when someone refuses to even see that a trans woman IS an “actual” woman.
I would LOVE to see the breakdown of people who are up-in-arms about this because they genuinely care about women’s sports AND don’t harbor any transphobic beliefs. It seems like it would be a very, very different conversation.
Anon
I think that the issue is that “transphobic,” at this point, is defined to include anyone who does not fully embrace the concept that the only thing that matters when it comes to gender is self-identification. If you take that position, then no, there isn’t a lot of room for productive discussion.
Anon
+1!!
Anon
I think I’m a person like that. I want to be in a league where I could plausibly win, not one where it seems that I’m doomed to be blown out of the water after I’ve gotten a silver medal at the Olympics. Even the NCAA’s rule change tacitly admits that they got this wrong.
Anon
I would think I”m that person too. I would like for Lia to be able to safely and happily live her life and to be supported by her family and friends and teammates.
That being said, I really feel for the women she was competing against. I dont know what the right answer is – obviously tr@ns women deserve the opportunity to train and compete in sports, but I also want all women (tr@ns and those biologically born female) to be able to compete in a more or less “equal” playing field. I’m very much not of the everybody deserve a trophy mindset, but I do think everyone deserves a fighting chance.
As a multi-sport high school and D1 college athlete, I care a lot about the world of women’s sports and it doesn’t take an athlete to tell you getting funding, resources, and recognition for all levels of women’s sports is an uphill battle. Sports were the best thing to happen to me, and to many of my friends, and I wish every child/teen can have an equally positive experience playing sports and competing.
Anon
Good for her. She’s worked for it. Hope she enjoys happiness and continued success in all she does.
Anon
I’d say that she worked for some of it, but it is also clear that the role of going through a full male puberty was a material factor in her success. That’s hard work that the other swimmers she was competing against could never do.
Anon
Ms. Thomas is a good athlete but other women have had faster times and other women will have faster times. The swimmers who are butthurt about this need to put their energy into their training instead of running their mouths.
Anon
Who who is a natal woman has beaten her?
Anon
Google is your friend. USA Swimming keeps good records.
Anon
I am sure that had a natal woman beaten Lia Thomas this year, the Daily Mail would have been all over it. So, no. A handful of women maybe have posted better times here and there but not in head-to-head competition with other college athletes since this has happened.
Anonymous
Lia Thomas is an incredibly selfish person. Competing in sports is not a right, it’s a privilege. Lia Thomas is making a mockery of women’s sports and the NCAA.
Anonymous
+1000 and making a mockery of you feminist dummies who claim to support all women, yet support Lia Thomas (a biological man) over actual women.
Anonymous
It’s a big nope for me. Unfortunately I think the only fair thing is for trans women to have their own league or simply not compete. No one is entitled to be a high level athlete, it’s a privilege. Sort of like how you can’t be colour blind for certain jobs.
Anona
This is such a non-nuanced take on such a nuanced topic. The hormone therapy negates so much of the physical advantage for trans women after a period of time. I do agree that trans women should be on hormone therapy to compete with women, but honestly, every single person comes into athletics with a unique physical make-up that impacts how they will compete. For instance, my husband and I were both Division I athletes who went on to do our sport professionally. Our children have a significant physical advantage over children who do not have two professional athlete parents. Should they also be put in their own league?
Anon
I think here, even the NCAA acknowledged that this wasn’t fair to women and changed its policy but grandfathered things that let this particular NCAA event occur as it did.
But, yes, generally your kids will be at an advantage but there are many levels at which kids and adults compete. Your kids may start with my kids in 2YO soccer or golf or whatever. At some point, their paths will diverge when my kids realize that chess is more their sports speed, but you get club soccer, travel soccer, and the kids who get sent to IMG for school/sports. There is D1 and D3 in college and club sports and co-rec sports, etc. Golf gives you a handicap and has a variety of tees, so that everyone can feel like they are competing fairly. Tennis has USTA ratings.
Anonymous
I don’t understand how you can be so selfish and entitled like this. Transition. Absolutely. Why you gotta do elite athletics? What’s hard about being like “hey maybe I’m cheating? Maybe, as a ‘woman’ I should just not do this because it’s not fair to women.”
Anon
Putting “woman” in quotes to indicate trans women is just more blatant transphobia. The hormone therapies DO impact their performance and often place them on a comparable level in women’s sports that they originally were in men’s. Would love for people to take some deep-breaths around this subject, read up about it, and then see if their opinion changes when they have more facts and aren’t blinded by initial gut-reactions and prejudice.
Anonymous
I Jane read up on it. Lia Thomas is not a woman.
Anonymous
Exactly. Although I firmly believe Lea Thomas is a man, I can support that M. Thomas should not be discriminated against in housing, jobs, etc. Playong women’s sports is 200% not necessary.
Anon
It’s a big nope for me too and the overwhelming majority of people I know think it’s awful. And that includes people who are Democratic voters and are generally supportive of basic nondiscrimination laws protecting transgender people.
The emperor has no clothes on a bunch of this; I know a ton of progressives who publicly say the “right” things on transgender issues but privately think the world has gone insane when we are supposed to act like there’s no difference between Lia Thomas and the biological women swimmers she’s competing against or that the dramatic increase in teen girls seeking gender transition is NBD.
Anon
The teen girls transitioning thing is fascinating. I could not sterilize a child (I don’t think, even one who was vulnerable to exploitation who couldn’t care for a baby and I didn’t want to risk getting pregnant) willfully but I could give a girl puberty blockers that would result in her being sterile should she want to become a parent later in life. [People here complain that no one will give them a tubal ligation as an adult woman who is sincerely holding convictions against ever bearing a child.] How much would a kid be able to sue a parent and doctor for in that case? Usually people are so risk adverse and yet I don’t see it for this situation.
Anon
My guess is that you’ve never spent time with a kid who is transgender. Giving my child hormones is hands down the hardest decision I’ve ever had to make, but also the easiest. Our kid has been who she is from day 1. I wouldn’t hesitate to give my sick child chemo, notwithstanding the real side effects. The danger of side effects is vastly outweighed by the actual harm of not treating today’s condition.
Anon
I have, actually. That kid isn’t taking puberty blockers in part because one parent is concerned about some other things going on in the kid’s life and one parent is flat-out opposed to this for a minor (not necessarily opposed for an adult). Kid is barely a teen, so in the thick of it. It helps that 99% of teens in our city wear oversized hoodies and chuck taylors are universally popular.
Anon
Puberty blockers don’t sterilize anyone later in life. They pause puberty. Stop blockers and puberty–and fertility–resumes. Please don’t perpetuate misinformation. It hurts kids like mine.
Anon
Maybe someone can give us some actual medical info? Those package inserts that come with prescptiins?
mayo clinic
From the Mayo Clinic, partway down through article: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075
“What are the possible side effects and complications?
It’s important for your child to stay on schedule with all related medical appointments. Contact your child’s doctor if any changes cause you or your child concern.
Possible side effects of GnRH analogue treatment include:
Injection site swelling
Weight gain
Hot flashes
Headaches
Use of GnRH analogues might also have long-term effects on:
Growth spurts
Bone growth and density
Future fertility — depending on when pubertal blockers are started
Children may have their height checked every three months. Bone density is also checked periodically. If bone growth or density is a concern, your child’s health care provider might prescribe a different medication, stop treatment with GnRH analogues or recommend the best time to start cross-hormone therapy.
If children with male genitalia begin using GnRH analogues early in puberty, they might not develop enough penile and scrotal skin for certain gender affirming genital surgical procedures, such as penile inversion vaginoplasty. Alternative techniques, however, are available.
In addition, delaying puberty beyond one’s peers can be stressful. Your child might experience lower self-esteem.”
Seattle Children's
https://www.seattlechildrens.org/globalassets/documents/for-patients-and-families/pfe/pe2572.pdf
page 4 of 6:
“Taking puberty blockers should not affect your ability to have a baby in the
future (fertility).
However, permanent damage to fertility is a concern for people who stay
on puberty blockers and then take cross-sex hormones. We recommend
talking about this with us to understand the potential impact on your
fertility before starting any medicines”
Anonymous
I hate it but there’s no way to discuss it without being accused of transphobia. Fine if you’ve got a p$n1s but want us all to pretend you’re a woman but why do you feel entitled to elite athletics? Typical selfish man move.
Anon
There are of course ways to talk about it without being accused of transphobia, but spoiler alert, you are absolutely transphobic based on your second two sentences.
Anon
there is so much of this that feels like typical selfish male cr*p. Forcing your way into spaces that were designed to be safe for women, without considering how that might impact those women…sure sounds like a man to me.
Anon
This is such an upsetting take haha. Trans women ARE women. The same systems that make life incredibly stressful for cis women exist for trans women (namely, misogyny). The fact that you’re insisting on invalidating someone’s entire identity when it causes literally no harm to you is so sad. Trans women want a safe space the same way that they do, and it would be great if we could provide it to them with open arms instead of couching prejudice under the pretense of (completely unfounded) concerns for our own well-being.
Anon
They are welcome to self-identify as they wish. I don’t believe subjective self-identification is entitled to societal deference when it impacts the rights of others.
Anon
And also, why is it on us to offer up safe spaces we had to fight bitterly for? Why is it women are again asked to sacrifice something for the good of others? Went does it have to be at our expense?
Anon
Jesus christ glad to see TERF is alive and well!
Anon
Crud these are hard comments to read. I assure you, your space is VASTLY safer than any space my child inhabits.
Many thanks to the people who understand trans women are women.
Anon
Anon @ 4:44: I am a 25 year old woman and I can assure you that most people my age have WAY more progressive views on these issues than those being shown here today. The generation younger than me seems even more open-minded than my generation is. This is all to say, your child will be loved and respected for who they are and these regressive viewpoints will start to die out. I mean, when I was born, gay people couldn’t get married in most states. The arch of justice swings upward
Anonymous
+1. My experience was that the women’s room was the only place at school where I was safe from sexual harassment. Now, we have all gender bathrooms with shared hand washing stations and there is literally no safe public space. Our solution when considering a range of gender identity has been to eliminate safe space for women and replace it with revolting shared urinals. What happened to the rights of women?
anon
I know I’m not supposed to feel this way, but it’s completely unfair.
Anon
Have you actually read about what hormone therapy does to a person’s body? If not, you do not have an informed opinion.
Anon
I have! And I’ve read a great deal about this case. Hormone therapy does a lot to a person’s body, but it does not – particularly when undertaken after puberty – remove all of the advantages of going through puberty as a man. It’s unfair and including MTF transgender people in women’s sports ultimately will be the end of women’s sports.
anon
I have. Someone who has gone through biological puberty as a male still has some distinct physical advantages (e.g., size), even if they end up going through hormone therapy later. I don’t know what the answer should be here (open competitions?), but I don’t think it sets a great precedent for women’s athletics.
anonshmanon
This part of the argument I find sticky. If someone has always been known as female, but is 5 inches taller than a competitor, we don’t bar them from competing? And we have seen how controversial it is to block someone for having non-normal hormone levels when ‘normal’ is defined based on a narrow, non representative data set.
Emma
I feel like it’s hard to have a nuanced conversation about this. I am absolutely supportive of everyone living with whatever gender identity they are comfortable with, irrespective of their biological markers. But when it comes to sports, there is a spectrum. Like, I understand that at some point, you have taken enough “female” hormones that much of your biological advantage as someone who was previously outwardly male is essentially negated. But, a person who has not taken hormones at all and simply identifies as female while being biologically “male” should not be competing with females. And once you start hormone therapy, I honestly don’t know what the tipping point should be. It’s possible that medical professionals could weigh in on this? But I think there needs to be a balancing act between not being transphobic and also respecting that women are entitled to fair athletics, and it’s so hard to have that conversation when the discussion is so polarized.
Anon
Meh, in any given local race, I place in the top 15-20% overall, and I’m not even that good. I’m AFAB and present as female. One of these days I’d love to get a few other women together and force an open division by registering in the men’s division. I’m pretty sure any enthusiasm for an open division will evaporate as soon as women hit the podium and dudes have to come to terms with the fact that they regularly will get beaten by women. Maybe not for 1st place overall very often (though it happens in ultra-distance events even now), but further down in the standings, the overlap between men and women’s abilities happens a lot sooner than some of y’all think.
Be a good sport – welcome all who want to play. We’re all better for it.
Anona
Well said, Anon at 3:49. I am the former professional athlete who had kids with a professional athlete. I regularly beat the guys in my age group/division. My kids will too. Should they also have to participate in an open league because they have the biological advantage of us as parents? No difference with trans athletes.
Anonymous
Agree with Emma. There is a lot of nuance here and seems like there has to be a way to make things “fair” whatever fair is. Certain biological markers are going to influence things at a certain point–just like some folks starting out with better shoes or a better swim suit or whatever else creates an advantage. Where do you draw a line? Somewhere there is a tipping point. I don’t think it’s necessarily your gender at birth but it’s somewhere.
P.S. Just because someone doesn’t hold your same view doesn’t mean they’re not a good sport. And while a lot of comments here have been incredibly transphobic, I also don’t think holding this view lumps everyone in that same bucket.
Anonymous
I’m not the original commenter, but I have read about it and until I start seeing trans men who are high level athletes I’m not sure I believe it. Every formerly great female athlete who has transitioned has disappeared off the map as a male athlete since they are no longer competitive (and unable to bring themselves back up to that level). If HRT truly equalized as stated we should be seeing trans men also placing, but we aren’t.
Anon
That’s a good point. All I can really remember on this were the proverbial East German women’s swimmers of yore. But they did win (against women though).
Anon
A quick googling shows more than a few trans men on NCAA men’s teams, and those easily found online are just those who are out. As I said upthread, the differences in times (since this seems to be mainly about timed sports) between men and women is smaller than a lot of y’all think and getting smaller all the time. Girls in high school now are the granddaughters of the first girls who benefited from Title IX. The foundations of high-level women’s sports are barely in place, much less as well developed. Women will continue for some time to close the gap.
Anon
Yes, and I’ve also looked at her swim times before and after hormones. Definitely not enough difference to make this argument stand up to me.
Hormones also don’t change advantages like height and shoe and hand size. Which, when occurring among cis-women, is just part of the sport, but when cis-men statistically have an advantage in all of those categories, it starts to become unfair.
Anonymous
We can’t just discuss an athlete’s current hormone levels and ignore all of the other physical aspects that give men a physical advantage over women. Lia went from ranked in the #400s to ranked #1 while taking hormones.
Anonymous
Lia should, of course, live her life without fear or harassment.
But sports leagues are divided by s*x, not gender, and Lia went through male puberty. It is completely unacceptable that cis women were excluded from making the team; making the finals; medaling; or winning because a male-bodied person took that spot, and has now set records that cis women will never touch. I don’t want to see a world where women’s sports are for trans women, men’s sports are for men, and cis women have no opportunity.
If swimming was so important to Lia, I wish she had continued to compete as a woman on the men’s team. Surely the men’s team could be expected to accept a male-bodied female member of the team, if the female team can be expected to accept a complete loss of opportunity for legitimate competition.
Anon
Your last paragraph is sort of where I line up b/c swimming on the men’s team would be like a women’s hoops team with a male practice squad: pushing you to be better. Swimming against women is like a 5.0 tennis player playing a really good 3.5 player — maybe it pushes the 3.5 player, but it will never improve the 5.0 player and may allow them to develop some bad habits when you don’t have to try that hard to win.
Eliza
This is exactly where I fall.
NYC
+1
Anonymous
I’m going to say this wrong but I feel…frustration and sadnesses. It just seems like this plays into the anti-tr@ns view that tr@ns people shouldn’t exist at all, and that they should be excluded from regular non-elite sports as young people and i think that stinks.
But then, I want my kids to play sports in order to make friends and get exercise and learn sportsmanship. I want tr@ns kids to have those opportunities. I feel like for every parent like me there are two banking on a sports scholarship. So yup, this woman’s success is going to give anti-tr@ns folks all the ammunition they need to keep tr@ns kids off the teams and feeling less than.
Anonymous
No one is saying trans folks can’t play rec sports or beer league or other sports for fun, people are only making the argument for delineation of competitive elite sports.
Anon
I think that in sports like gymnastics and figure skating, where female puberty ends elite careers, this could be interesting (and yet so painful) to watch play out. In most sports, being female is a disadvantage if you are playing against men (or as is the case here: someone who has been through a full male puberty and is an adult). Is there anything where we compete equally against each other? Rifle shooting maybe? Darts? I have no idea.
Anon
Equestrian events.
Anon
Golf maybe?
Anon
Doesn’t golf have womens tees as a concept though?
Dr. The Original ...
I think the whole thing is so tr@nsphobic in how it is being reported. I think we should have hormone levels or other measurements in which the categories are based on the numbers rather than on identities. Comments about this person having or not having certain body parts has nothing to do with this and is gross. Comments about locker room or bathroom changing is not about this and is gross. Also, anyone whose argument is that someone should be forced to choose between living authentically or competing is just trying to erase or minimize the existence of an entire demographic of people. If this is really only about whether there is an unfair advantage, we should also look at natal women who have naturally higher testosterone or those whose muscle shape makes them more dynamic or whose arm span is more than their competitors.
I know someone here (at least one person) has a child in this identity and someone else focuses in this community professionally and I wish them self-care as the phobia is so rampant. Also, it’s not a fear some have (it shouldn’t be called a phobia), it’s a chosen ignorance. Educated women as we are, we should be better.
Anon
I would be OK with a hoops league for short people like me. But that’s slicing up the universe to make it more fair for short people. If someone identifies as short, that doesn’t negate them also being in fact not short.
Anon
Thank you for your last paragraph. I have the trans daughter. I stepped away for a bit, and probably will do so again, but the reality is, this is a really hard subject. I’m in 100% in agreement that competitive athletics are tricky. The conversation is nuanced, and there will be a way forward, but it is hard and it will be hard. I am a competitive athlete, and am aware of the hard feelings on both sides.
I just can’t, though, with the “trans women aren’t women” and “get out of our safe places” arguments. Good lord, look up stats on trans women, particular trans women of color, and understand that your spaces are vastly, vastly, vastly safer than any space my child or other kids like her inhabit.
anon
I’ve seen nothing to indicate there is a way forward. Maybe eliminate sports entirely? We will all live poorer lives, but it’s the only fair resolution.
Anonymous
I saw an Instagram version of this article this morning – https://www.aclu.org/news/lgbtq-rights/four-myths-about-trans-athletes-debunked/ – and one of the big takeaways for me was the idea that there is no set biological determiner for hormone levels that defines gender. Cisgender women may have a wide range of hormone levels. Should we be policing them too to make sure they don’t have an unfair advantage? Do you really want to be testing women’s testosterone levels to make sure they fit some predetermined range when they could be varying for a lot of natural reasons? What about people who are intersex – where do they get to compete? People have wildly different biology and you can’t make that “fair” – the playing field is never entirely level. (Part of the reason Michael Phelps was so great was that he has a really long torso, broad chest, and long arms.) Women athletes in gymnastics tend to peak before puberty changes their bodies. The notion that biology determines gender and that determines potential is complicated and ultimately damaging to cisgender women too. (PS – I used to swim competitively.)
Anon
+1
Anon
+1
Anon
So she’s not as good as a handful of women athletes? That’s not proof. If you think of the abilities of athletes as bell curves with the mean of the male curve being higher than that of the female curve, it doesn’t mean there’s no overlap.
Ap
I’m not happy about it.
Cl
There’s a person yelling transphobia in every other post so what else is there to add? The conversation has been effectively shut down leaving everyone just angrier about it all. Good job. 👏
Anon
I am reluctant to engage in these conversations here, elsewhere on the Internet, and in real life because it is impossible to have any kind of conversation that goes beyond the first few sentences without someone accusing someone else of transphobia. Any statement that isn’t “trans women are women and belong everywhere women are” is met with the accusation. If that is done to shut down dialogue, it’s working. If it’s meant to shut down questions and thoughts, it is not working in the least, and in fact, the thought-policing seems to be having a violent rebound effect, resulting in hard pushbacks on trans people like what’s happening in Texas. I believe trans women are women but I would also like to be able to have a reasonable discussion about situations like Lia Thomas’ without someone coming in immediately, guns blazing, with the transphobia accusations. That’s all.
Anon
I think this is a difficult topic and deserving of a nuanced discussion, but the idea that someone can call her a man and then become a snowflake when told that’s crappy is not what’s leading to Texas’s horrific policies. The commenters saying she’s a man and will always be a man and is taking over women’s spaces because that’s what men do? Yeah, that’s crummy, mean, and frankly, hateful. If the idea is “Don’t do that because then Texas will [checks notes] investigate parents of trans kids,” we should evaluate how much we shift blame to the victims of those policies and not to the people enacting them.
It is humiliating to have others debate whether you are what you say you are when it comes to something so fundamental to understanding yourself as gender. People who do that should know that that is cruel. If they want to be cruel, I suppose that’s their right. But they shouldn’t expect none of us is going to say boo about it.
I say that as someone who thinks there are well-meaning people with different perspectives on the issue of women’s athletics. Lots of those well-meaning people are chiming in on this post. But a few cruel people are too.
Anon
I LOL’ed at the idea that somehow you get to be the sole arbiter of what is “cruel” in a given discussion. With all due respect, get over yourself.
Anonymous
I am not the sole arbiter of cruel anymore than you are the sole arbiter of someone else’s gender.
Anon
This is SUPER controversial, but I judge Lia herself for this. She knows she no longer meets NCAA qualifications, she knows she’s in the spotlight, she knows what this would likely to do to the perception of trans individuals world wide, and she did it anyway: she opted to compete in the women’s division, win, smash Katie Ledecky’s record, and accept the medal.
I think it’s selfish and shows a remarkable lack of empathy for the other women on her team. She is a woman – a trans woman, but still a woman she deserves to be gendered correctly.
I think very poorly of her for opting to do this and handle it this way. You can be trans and be a selfish person, just like you can be cis. I wish there was more conversation around how she personally has handled it.
Anon
She didn’t smash Katie Ledecky’s record. According to USA Swimming’s stats, she is the 16th fastest woman to swim this distance. Women as far back as 2007 have swam faster times.
Anon
+1
Anon
Is that seriously what you’re arguing over?
Anonymous
She’s definitely a woman, but also so incredibly selfish. This is about her ego because she wanted a medal.
Anon
I’m not. Ms. Thomas is a woman and won her title. I was correcting the statement that she beat Ms. Ledecky’s record. She did not, and her times, while excellent, are not unattainable by ciswomen. Her winning the title is not some kick in the teeth to women’s sports.
Anonymous
The point is that pre transition he was a mediocre male athlete when competing against other male athletes. Post transition she is defeating all but one or two of the tippy top most talented female athletes. The playing field is not equal here and if you don’t see that, why have women’s sports at all?
Anon
I think it’s a bit overblown of a threat to ciswomen’s achievements. First, there aren’t that many transwomen in the population, proportionally. Second, the idea that they are inclined to be elite athletes is…not statistically likely either. Plenty of cisboys and cismen are not athletically dominant–please see any cisman in my family. Let’s not assume that every transathlete who went through male puberty is inherently better than her ciscompetitor. Every now and then, yes an individual transwoman may become a champion, but we have yet to see this be a widespread situation like many claim it inevitably will be.
As far as locker rooms: my AFAB transmasc child feels very very uncomfortable changing around cisboys. I promise their discomfort in the locker room is more than most people’s, and I work hard to lower that discomfort. Don’t we all politely not make eye contact with bits in the locker room anyway?
I was a D1 athlete as well. On balance, most of us weren’t going to grace a Wheaties box, but the camaraderie, teamwork, shared losses, and shared successes and supporting each other were the most valuable parts of those experiences. Having a trans competitor or teammate wouldn’t have changed that.
Anon for this
Thank you so much for sharing your perspective as a former D1 athlete. (Beyond occasionally watching the Olympics, I could not care less about any kind of athletic competition – the Oscars red carpet is my Super Bowl.)
To be frank, I feel like this is a nearly-perfect wedge issue that inures to the benefit of American conservatives. There is a tiny group of people involved, a tiny potential impact to the vast majority of people, but it preys on the concerns of a much larger, broader group of people and their allies (i.e., women who enjoy sports and their supportive families). And unfortunately, there is a sufficient number of very-lefty people who are willing to take to all forms of media and get baited into losing their tempers at smooth-talking conservative pundits.
The stuff about CPS investigating parents of trans kids and criminalizing parents seeking medical care affects a much bigger group of people. To my mind, Democratic politicians ought to be pounding those issues as opposed to weighing in on who wins a swim competition.
visualize data
https://boysvswomen.com/#/
Anonymous
When this comes up, all I can think about is that fabulous photo series that Howard Schatz made of olympic athlete bodies. Google it if you haven’t seen the photos.
Athlete bodies, and what is a successful and advantageous body for a sport is so, so different across fields. To say that any particular starting point is better or more likely to win than another is rather absurd when considering the massively different body types that are successful in sports. I’m thinking that how many x chromosomes somebody has is not the most important thing.
Anon
It is pretty damning though that high school boys are generally better than the best adult women. Like head-to-head against a boy, I’d lose except to one still in diapers at most any thing. Except for finishing school, not getting shot and staying out of prison, some stats that women excel at.
Anonymous
That’s not true, though. Scientist are betting on women to be the more successful ski jumpers, and I don’t believe for a second that that’s the only sport in which a combination of lower mass and fearlessness will be the dividing point.
Anon
Ski jumping is not relatable. It’s like being good at horse polo. Theoretical, but I am a poor and none of this is going to happen for anyone I know.
OTOH, I get special athletic events for definable groups like the paralympics and special olympics. I remember controversy about Oscar Pistorius and his blades, about whether they let him compete or gave him an advantage. I know someone with autism who isn’t so severely affected as to be fairly included in the special olympics but is at a severe disadvantage in standard sports — there is just no relevant group to compete with, so rather than have an unfair advantage over one group, this kid just swims in normal meets and holds up the races (and will always lose), but if you had a group of similar kids, they’d probably have fun together or at least not be outside of the norm for typical events. IDK what the answer is when your relevant group of comparison is quite small.
Anon
Yep – ultramarathons, too. https://runningmagazine.ca/the-scene/women-are-outrunning-men-at-ultra-distances/
I don’t have any articles handy, but the best very long distance swimmers tend to be women, too.
Anon for this
Aren’t women better long-distance sea swimmers?
Super Anon
So here’s my take: as a general manner matter Males have advantages in most athletics over females Obviously the elite female athlete is going to be better than your average male athlete, but at an elite level in virtually every sport, males have biological advantages due to having gone through puberty with higher levels of testosterone.
From everything I have read, one year of testosterone suppression might make a male weaker than they would have been otherwise but does not negate those advantages. (And yes – I have researched it. That New Yorker article is excellent and nuanced.)
I am happy to consider her as a woman. I would be happy to treat her as a woman. I am happy to have her use facilities intended for women. But I do not believe she should be allowed to compete in women’s college athletics against cis gendered women. I think that it is horrifically unfair to those women and runs the risk of undercutting women’s sports.
I would also never express that opinion anyway other than anonymously, because it seems that anything other than “transwomen are women “is immediately attacked as being horrifically biased.
Anonymous
Here’s an interesting thread on Twitter that argues women’s sports isn’t a protected category but rather a segregated category. She lists a number of sports where the women’s category was only invented after a woman entered the open category and did well. It’s why we still have “Sports” and “Women’s Sports.”
https://twitter.com/shereebekker/status/1504899936843935746?s=21
Anon
I think – and hope, actually – that the end result of trans athletes competing in elite sports will be the desegregation of sports, at least to a certain extent. There are women who could play in the NFL, NBA, MLB, NPSL and NHL but cannot because those sports are still segregated by gender. If we can say that Lia Thomas is a woman and should be allowed to compete in women’s sports, let’s take that a step further and say that if women can try out for professional sports and compete at the same level as men, they should be able to join the teams. Pro sports is one of the last bastions of gender segregation and it’s time for that to stop.
Anon for This
So instead of a women’s league and a men’s league (professional and college) we will have one league with 95% men and a couple of spectacular women?
You are arguing for the end of women’s athletics. Because in virtually every sport, elite men are bigger, faster and stronger than elite women. Spend a few minutes looking up who has the best times in virtually any timed sport. Or just pick one (say the 100 meter) and look at how many men can beat the best women’s time. I will give you a clue – there are a lot of them. Women would not even qualify for the finals.
How many women do you think are going to be able to play professional basketball against men? (I would guess fewer than 10.) And nobody is going to watch (or pay for) the lower “weight class” of a sport. We will be back in the pre-Title IX days for college sports with everything that implies.
By all means, trans women should be able to live as their authentic selves, free of harassment and discrimination I do not care who uses which bathroom (or changing room). At a rec level, they should be able to play whatever sport they want. But I do not think we should sacrifice women’s athletics to protect the “rights” of a relatively tiny group of people who will otherwise come to completely dominate their sports.
KJ
There are *not* women who could play in the NBA, come on…
Anonymous
This is not true—most professional sports leagues do not have rules prohibiting women from playing. Abolishing women’s leagues will remove women’s opportunity to play and compete in sports.
Anon
It makes me wonder if unsegregating sports by gender would actually open up sports to more people (for example, if weight classes became more common).
Anon
We call those lower weight classes recreational leagues.
Anon
That sounds like it’s not competitive though. I thought the whole point of women’s sports was that athletes want to compete against their peers, and (I’m being told) women are flat out worse at sports than men. Why wouldn’t “small men” also want to compete against their peers?
Horse Crazy
Favorite dinner party dessert? Needs to serve 5. I’m a fairly experienced cook/baker, so doesn’t need to be super simple…I’m just out of ideas.
Senior Attorney
I really like Ina Garten’s Chocolate Pudding Tart.
This Meyer lemon tart is delish: https://leitesculinaria.com/332/recipes-meyer-lemon-tart-chocolate.html
This Basque cheesecake is impressive and delicious: https://www.bonappetit.com/recipe/basque-burnt-cheesecake
And berries with tequila cream are delicious and simple: https://www.myrecipes.com/recipe/berries-with-tequila-cream
Senior Attorney
I replied with links and am in mod so check back! Have fun!
Anon
Smitten kitchen key lime pie is a hit and always popular. Not super hard and standard grocery store ingredients. Takes a little time but not super involved time.
Bakers Chocolate one bowl brownies are easy to make and one of my standard things to make because everyone likes them. The recipe is online and usually on or in the box of bakers unsweetened chocolate. Brownies made with melted unsweetened chocolate are lots better than those made with dry ingredients like cocoa. I like to serve them with either freshly whipped cream or French vanilla ice cream from the store.
A
Lava cake.
Anonymous
Does anyone else feel like they have a hairtrigger for getting frustrated? I feel like I’m turning into a Karen. Not sure if it’s perimenopause, depression, or something else…
Anon
My depression has always exhibited through irritability, not moroseness.
Julia
For sure. For me, it’s a combination of hormones and caffeine. My rage levels were getting HORRIBLE a couple of weeks before my period each month, and any irritation was compounded by whatever coffee I’d had that day. I started taking calcium/magnesium supplements which are supposed to help with folks that have out-of-whack PMS symptoms and it’s helped a lot.
I’d recommend figuring out if your hormones are kind of weird and if there is anything you can do to support a more healthy hormonal balance. They have tests for this! Also just the general advice for regulating moods (which I also struggle with): work out, eat lots of veggies, limit caffeine/sugar/alcohol, meditate, journal.
Also: surrendering to the chaos has been helpful for me. Everyone is imperfect, including us. Everyone is stressed/overwhelmed/trying to get by. The goal isn’t to be perfect or to hold other people to a standard of perfection. I also always remember that I’ve never regretted being kind/letting something go, but I’ve regretted every. single. instance of snapping at someone.
Anonymous
This was me last fall. I forced myself to do a 30 day yoga program. (I have assets and could pay the $90 studio membership). I also started gratitude journaling and track my period on an app now. Hormones are very real and my period / emotions before and after are much different than pre pandemic (so much so that my romantic partner pointed out to me that I am doomsday every month at a weird time, turns out it was tied to my ovulation days). I switched back to a real Alarm clock, put my cell phone in another room to charge, and no longer doom scroll news or my email after a certain hour unless it is TRULY an emergency (in my field, I have been able to narrow that to two thankfully rare categories, and both also involve law enforcement at the same time). I worked on sleeping and eating better. It was hard and I dropped a couple not urgent balls at work – I now give myself an extra 1-2 business day estimate and no one has minded yet. YMMV but my answer is yes, you are not alone. It is ok to embrace the suck. If you’re in that spot it is ok. If you want to try things, maybe the above will give you some ideas!
Anonymous
Yes, mid-forties here. I went back onto birth control pills to see if it would help. I’m on week five. It is not helping. I’ve tried almost everything lifestyle wise along with the pills. The pills were a last resort I’ve tried no alcohol. More exercise. Vegan diet. Pescatarian diet. Plant Based diet. Meditations. Yoga. More sleep. Less Caffeine. Less screen time. No TV. Herbal supplements (all the teas). Absolutely nothing takes the edge off. Quite frankly if I didn’t have any men in my life I wonder if that would fix it.
Anon
Progestins make me more irritable. Progesterone is what improves my mood. BCP would definitely be the wrong approach for me.
Seventh Sister
I’ve been watching this sort-of-hokey fantasy show called Wheel of Time and men aren’t permitted to be part of the magic/channelling/superpower group and honestly, I kind of want to go to there.
Seventh Sister
I have been doing the same thing, and I think it’s a delayed reaction to the pandemic now that most of the restrictions (in LA anyway) are over. A few weeks ago, I really Got Into It over an issue in a parking garage (!) which was ridiculous on both sides but I don’t think I would have been half as upset a month ago. Honestly, I think everyone (me included), is really rusty on typical social interactions and facial expressions so miscommunications are legion.
While I’m not in therapy right now, I know from years (years!) of therapy that when the choice is fight-or-flight, my most common reaction is flight for a number of reasons. But my “fight” reaction is a last-resort mechanism that is intense and can be straight-up terrifying to people. Working on how to “fight” better is a struggle for me and probably always will be.
Anon
I am mid-30s and feel like my mood regulation never fully returned to normal after my second kid was born (4 years ago!). I am definitely better when I exercise but it is not perfect. I got a low dose IUD (Kyleena) because I was hoping it would even things out a bit. I have only had it two weeks (and things have been fine), but the time change ruined my sleep (and my kids) so I have been off this week, too. I do know that sleep is HUGE for my well-being.
I will also second magnesium. I don’t know for sure that it helped but my doctor said taking it regularly is safe. And I did feel good when taking it. I am not sure why I stopped, but I am going to pick it up again.
Anon
I am traveling to Chicago with my teenage daughter on a mother-daughter trip. We are there for city sightseeing. Is there a hotel you would recommend for us that’s centrally located? Also, would you recommend that we rent a car, or is the city area pretty walkable to major tourist attractions? We are going to do the architect tour (there are a few of them – some sticking with the river and some going to the lake also – so if you recommend one in particular, let me know). Thank you!
Anon
Chicago has weird (to me) roads where there is a street level and an elevated level (watch the Harrison Ford version of The Fugitive) and I would not want to drive there. Transit / cabs have been adequate to me and a lot of it is walkable. I’ve stayed in the Palmer House (Hilton property) but the best places have seemed to be some of the private clubs (Union League?), which have so much history with them (maybe you know someone who can have you as a guest???). A random hotel in River North was fun and easy to get around from.
Anon
The hotel at the Athletic Association is right across the street from the Art Institute and Bean, has old wood panneling, fireplaces, billards room etc. Downtown is very walkable, but can be confusing with the lower level streets and walkways around the river if you arnt familiar or paying close attention. Lived here 10 years, and navigating the multi levels is still confusing to me.
Leave the driving up to taxis and ubers, parking can be expensive and stressful. The CTA is very handy if you want a bus or train to get somewhere further away.
Divy bikes are easy to rent around the city. If the weather and trip schedule allows, renting bikes and biking along the lake front would be a great way to take in views of the city and the lake.
I think the boat tours with the Architecture Association come with a free visit to the museum?
I think chicago can be a fun trip, you can easily do a bit of everything (active, shopping, sightseeing, food, museums and shows) without going too far if you dont want to. Do skip the giant Starbucks on Michigan Ave though, that line is not worth the wait when theres five other locations in close proximity!
Coach Laura
The Fugitive with Ford was on last night – I know I’m weird but it’s one of my favorite movies.
Anon
Chicago Athletic Association is a lot of fun, especially if your daughter is 21. I would strongly recommend against renting a car. Public transportation is plentiful
Cat
Def do not rent a car, you will spend way more time dealing with it than any time saved by renting it. Use public tr-nsit as needed to save your legs.
312
Definitely skip the car, parking charges are expensive. Uber/cabs if needed. I like the Loew’s hotel. Close to lots of things walking – mag mile, millennium Park. Short cab ride to art museum/museum campus. Have a great time!
NeglectedHeels
I got a rental car and tried to drive it through downtown Chicago once, never ever ever ever again. I still have nightmares.
Anon
Don’t rent a car. Stay close to attractions downtown by staying in or around the loop or the Chicago river. Uber/taxis are plentifyl and if you’re spending most of your time downtown you’ll pay through the nose for parking with a rental car.
BB
From someone who lives in downtown Chicago and has a car, DO NOT rent a car. Use public transport or rideshare. Plus all the major attractions are totally walkable. Do the architecture tour that’s run by the Chicago Architecture Center. It’s more informative, less “touristy” and you’re supporting a non-profit! Agree that the Athletic Association is a great place to stay. Just be aware that any of the Loop/River North hotels are going to be kind of loud if you’re not used to city noise.
Anon
We stayed at the Trump Hotel and everything was so nice. They have a great pool that we used everyday and we are breakfast in the hotel restaurant. There is a patio outside the restaurant that is also nice. We really enjoyed the navy pier and did the speed boat tour. Hope you have a great time!
Hollis
I will be a tourist in D.C. with my daughter for a long weekend. I would like any hotel recommendations for staying walking distance to places (I don’t think we’re going to rent a car because parking sounds like a pain over there), but also somewhere that feels pretty safe for me and for my daughter traveling alone. I’m interested in the African American history museum, the holocaust museum, the national portrait gallery, and the Lincoln monument (and possibly Jefferson, although I think we would need to Uber there and there’s nothing around there, right?). Are there other specific places that might be interesting to a high school girl, I welcome any suggestions.
Anon
Spendy, but I’d start with anything near Farragut West / Dupont Circle. The Hotel Jefferson, St. Regis, Hilton at 16th/K, the Mayflower, the St. Regis (has a Chanel Boutique). They are all close and/or very historic. Georgetown is much more of a haul for where you’re going. It’s not screaming teen girl, but I can still remember being incredibly moved by my visit to Arlington National Cemetery where we watch the guards at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. It is metro-accessible.
Anon
Caveat to add that the Russian Consulate is on 16th, so IDK how it’s presence there affects the blocks around it (Mayflower, Hilton on 16th). I haven’t been on those specific blocks since Russa invaded Ukraine, but in the past there has been a US Govt presence there (so I felt very watched, in a good way, should the average street crime try occur there as I walked by).
Anon
I feel like now would be a VERY interesting time to sit at the bar at Russia House…
Anon
Fancy and classic? Hay Adams. Reasonable? When I travel to the Mothership in Foggy Bottom, I stay at the Courtyard by Marriott on 20th and E. Hip? Hotel Hive. All walkable to the Mall and the Portrait Gallery.
Anon
You can walk to the Jefferson monument. It’s less than a mile from the Washington monument and about half a mile from the holocaust museum.
I wouldn’t recommend Farragut West / Dupont Circle area. It’s a nice area, safe and good for business travelers, but far from all the sightseeing places you will be going. It’s just not a convenient location for what you want to see. I would try Penn Quarter or Chinatown, they are a lot closer to the tourist sites. I haven’t stayed in them, but the Kimpton hotel and Riggs on F street both look nice and are very close to lots of nice restaurants.
Anon
I think that Farragut West takes you by the White House and Main Treasury, which are just amazing to see (IMO as a former child tourist).
Anon
Chinatown and Peen Quarter are just as close to the White House and Treasury as the Farrague area, but a lot closer to the other tourist sites.
Anon
None of it is far though. It’s a pretty easy walk from Dupont to the mall and the metro is also easy. I’d prefer staying in Dupont because its more neighborhoody than Farragut Square.
Anonymous
You can walk from the Lincoln memorial to the Jefferson memorial! If the weather’s nice, it’ll be a nice decompressing walk from all the museums. YMMV (and your daughter’s) but that’s a lot of heavy museum-going for one long weekend. If either of you are into more contemporary art or exhibits, try the Hirshhorn or the Renwick Gallery, or perhaps the newly re-opened Arts & Industries building (all free). If you’re willing to pay and book ahead, Artechouse might be of interest to your daughter if she likes art & technology and instagramming.
DC is very easy to navigate by metro (unless you’re staying in Georgetown) & walking – if you’re mostly doing the museums along the National Mall, there’s no point in renting a car and trying to find a parking spot.
Anonymous
2 more thoughts – for a non museum experience, the O Street Museum. It’s more of a scavenger hunt of hidden doors in a combined mansion/townhouse via self-guided “tours.” For an affordable lunch around the National Mall, Teaism in Penn Quarter, which has a large dining space in the basement.
Anon
As a mom and daughter, you may want to consider staying in the immediate Capitol Hill area because the Capitol Police have jurisdiction there and actively patrol there in a way that Metro PD doesn’t in other parts of the city. I probably recommend the Capitol Hill Hotel – walking distance to the Cap South metro station (blue and orange lines) and walking distance to dozens of restaurants all along Independence Ave.
I’m a Senate girl myself, and like the Park Phoenix Hotel and the Irish pub down below, but I’ve heard the homelessness at Union Station has gotten a little hairy lately since so few people are commuting through there.
I work around Farragut West right near the White House and St. John’s Lafayette Square. I’m sure there are hotels there, but what there aren’t are enough restaurants for family vacationers. There are lunch sandwich places for daytime, but the restaurants for dinner run toward the $50 pp client dinner type.
I haven’t been to Gallery Place in probably a decade (decamped to the suburbs, like you do), but there used to be good restaurants and shops there – I’d check to see what’s open; I know a couple places have closed during COVID. If you decide to stay over there, check and see if the arena still has those giant lit billboards that light the place up like Times Square at night – it would have been too “happening” of an area for me to sleep there.
Anon
Farragut West has chain restaurants that are cheap that I’ve had dinner at tons. You don’t have to go to BLT Steak or Mortons or whatever. But eat all over the city!
Anon
A lot of those restaurants close by 3 or 4, especially since there are so many less people in that area cause of Covid wfh
Anon
That’s true — a more residential area (up Wisconsin?) will have more open later.
Anon
All the places you mentioned are pretty close together and parking is very expensive, so I would not rent a car and just stay close by. Depending on when you are coming, I would avoid metro. A lot of the trains are out of service because of a safety issue, and it is often a 20 minute wait for a train right now. Ubers and Lyfts are easy to get.
Anon
– Definitely don’t bother with a car!
– The metro is a bit of a cluster right now (more so than always), but it’s still serviceable.
– The bus system is also good, and the circulator buses are perfect for sightseeing. They have a route that goes all around the Mall (red I think?). The circulator is also only $1 and has free transfers within 2 hours, so you can pretty much use it as a hop on / hop off bus and only pay $1 every 2 hours. I think most routes run every 10 mins too.
– I wouldn’t stay too close to the Mall – those neighborhoods aren’t as fun or lively. I’d stay somewhere near Dupont/14th/Shaw and then take public transportation to the tourist spots. At your daughter’s age, I loved staying in neighborhoods and pretending that I lived there – it made me feel very grown up and was a fun “this is what my life could look like in 10 years” moment.
– You can definitely walk to the Jefferson Memorial!
– Plan your day so you get lunch before/after the Portrait Gallery. There’s a ton of places to eat right there, whereas when you’re on the mall youre limited to museum food court (some are very good! Especially Native American Museum) or cr@ppy food cart (they all sell the same bad, overpriced food. This is not fun food truck food!)
– I used to work between the African American History Museum and the National Portrait Gallery and I always felt safe, even walking alone after dark (like coming home from a late happy hour). There are for sure a lot of individuals experiencing homelessness downtown, but I only ever had 1 experience where I felt rattled (and that happened inside of a cafe).
Anonymous
When I do the DC long weekend for museum hopping, I get a three day pass on their bike share (bring your own helmet). It makes it easy to get around, and I get a much better feel for the city. You might want to check out Hillwood, the Marjorie Merriweather Post estate which is now a museum. Fascinating story, and all the art and collections, the gardens- when I was there last they had a big exhibit of her dresses, which may be permanent display, I’m not sure (www.hillwoodmuseum.org) It is a long ride, and there is no bike rack near the museum, so might be worth the uber for that trip. I walked in from the main road and actually hitchhiked (never hitched a ride in my life, but I figured the odds of someone who went to the museum being an axe murderer were small) back.
Have a wonderful time!
Anon
I agree Capitol Hill hotels would be a really nice option. You can take a long walk or easily metro to the monuments and museums, but will feel like you are staying in a neighborhood. Definitely don’t rent a car, very easy to get Ubers or Lyfts or take the train. If you do stay in Capitol Hill, some suggestions:
-Walk to Eastern Market especially on Sunday to check out the old market and the farmers market
-Go up to H Street area for meals. Maketto is awesome. La Cosecha and Union Market food balls nearby are also great.
-Lots of restaurants on Barracks Row in Capitol Hill including Call Your Mother bagels, Ambar, ChiKo.
Hollis
So many helpful suggestions from the hive! Thanks so much for taking time to respond!
Anonymous
I love the Kimpton that is across the street from the Portrait Gallery, in the old Post Office building.
Anon
Any suggestions for concert outfits? It’s a pop concert in a theater. I’m in my late 40s and all my clothes are either business professional or super casual?
anon.
I am going to something similar this weekend and wearing a tunic type dress with a more fitted jean jacket on top. Mom chic I guess, hoping it works!
Anonymous
Favorite short sleeve dress with pleated skirt? Prefer solid colors.
Anonymous
St. John.
Anononon
Any experience with the brand Marcella? I like a couple of their pieces and was considering ordering, but would love any insight on quality. Price point makes me assume BR or BR Factory? I have tried searching the past comments here but have only succeeded in finding comments about how we all love Marcella Hazan’s tomato sauce (which is indeed great).
Anon
I have ~ 4 shirts and a dress from them. I think the quality is slightly better than BR, but I like the style better. Shipping takes a little longer since most items ship directly from the EU. (And I just now got an email that a shirt I ordered from them is out for delivery!)
Anon
And I have found sizing to be similar.
NYNY
I’m surfacing after a rough two weeks. DH’s father died last Saturday after a brief battle with stage 4 lung cancer. He seemed to be responding well to treatment, and had a great day last Thursday before taking a turn. The family is in shock, since he was only diagnosed a few weeks ago.
On top of the grieving, he did zero estate planning. I’ve spent this week as a forensic accountant. It’s all a mess, and his widow (not DH’s mother) is unaware of any of their finances. DH is doing all the funeral planning. This is all awful, and will be for a long time.
Tell me something good to distract me from the SSA hold music…
London (formerly NY) CPA
I’m so sorry for your loss. Sending you all of the hugs
My sister recently sent me videos from this Instagram account and they’re the most wholesome adorable things! Hope they help as a distraction
http://www.instagram.com/chasing.sage/reels/
NYNY
Love the dino suit! Thank you <3
Anon
I’m so sorry for your loss.
Something good – spring is on the way, the days are longer, and tacos still exist. Sorry, that’s all I’ve got.
Hugs to you.
Anonymous
Margaritas also still exist, and they go great with tacos or just shots of tequila. Doesn’t make things better but it’s a small joy.
NYNY
Spring, tacos, and margaritas are all good things. We’re at my FIL’s home in Santa Fe, enjoying all three plus spring snowstorms. Thank you.
Anon
Record scratch – you’re in Santa Fe? Forget tacos. Enchiladas and a chile relleno with Christmas sauce. No one does this better than Santa Fe!!
NYNY
Had a Chimayo plate at Tomasita’s – green chile beef enchilada and a red chile pork tamale, plus beans, rice, and a sopaipilla with honey butter – two days ago. Plus a margarita. It helped.
Curious
I’m so sorry for your loss, and I’m sorry for the attendant paperwork and logistics that steal any potential dignity from death. I have always been impressed by your kindness and empathy, so that is my god thing: that you are still here and we are grateful for you.
Curious
*good thing
NYNY
And I’m crying. Thank you, Curious. I hope you’re doing well.
Anonymous
If you haven’t already done this, I recommend getting a copy of his bank statements for the last 18 months. I was the executor for my cousin who died of brain cancer and sorted out her estate this way. In her case, she didn’t die that suddenly, but she declined quite rapidly before she could share her computer passwords, explain all her investments, etc. good luck — it was a slog.
NYNY
The good thing is that FIL had a notebook filled with his various logins, so I’ve deciphered it, accessed all the accounts online, and created a spreadsheet of everything. I’ve found all the accounts, all the debts, two life insurance policies, and two pensions. One of my BILs will take over next week figuring out the household expenses, but I think I’ve found enough money that his widow will be okay. I adored him, but I have silently cursed him out several times this week.
Annnon
It’s late but came to say I’m so sorry. We had a virtually identical situation four years ago this coming Monday. I was 8 months pregnant and couldn’t fly to the services so I just dove deep in to the accounting stuff. Turns out the estate was basically insolvent, too.
Find yourself a fantastic estate attorney. They will be worth their weight in gold – truly.
I wish what you’re going through and what I went through on no one. Four years in the future I’ll tell you my (incompetent/narcissistic) MIL is living her life and happy as one could hope at this stage. In the moment and even a year after his death I swore the hell would never end. It will, I promise. Sending you peace. So very sorry for your loss.
And PSA to the rest of the free world: do your estate planning and spare your loved ones from this absolute pain and suffering.
NYNY
Thank you. It makes me crazy that so much cancer is diagnosed too late. The same thing happened with my mother 2 years ago. It’s awful. I’m so sorry you went through that.
I reached out to the attorney who did my parents’ estate, and will meet with him next month when the family is all in NM for a memorial service. He’s my dad’s best friend, so I have a lot of faith in him. He already gave me a ton of free advice.
Anon
I am sending you big hugs. MIL just passed from advanced cancer that was diagnosed very late. She had also seemed to be rebounding and then took a turn and didn’t recover from it. Only lived about six weeks from diagnosis. We’re still kind of reeling that it’s already all over.
I am so sorry about the estate stuff. The last thing my husband got my MIL to do the last time they were together was sign a will. My FIL died intestate some years ago and it was a long mess to get it all figured out. Please post back if you need advice or support.
Anon
Also: I see you’re in Santa Fe right now. I am in ABQ. If you end up making it down this way and want to have a drink with a non-family-member so you can vent and blow off some steam, post a burner email and I’ll contact you.
NYNY
What a kind offer! We’re stuck here until we fly out Monday, but I know we’ll be back. I may take you up on it next time. <3
NYNY
Also, I’m so sorry for your loss. Fuck cancer. Seriously.
Anon
Thank you, and agree, f— cancer. I am serious about the offer so please post a burner when you’ll be back in the area.
bc experience?
Hi all – I’ve been on some form of hormonal birth control for 27 years (yikes) with the exception of the times I was pregnant. I have two kids and for some health reasons (mostly migraines) I’m going to stop taking it for now. Can anyone give me an idea of what to expect? It’s somewhat embarrassing how little I know my own body at this point. 42 YO mom of two, 3 pregnancies.
Cat
for me after 20 years – initially s-x drive was a noticeably higher and I had a lot of random s-xual dreams! Flip side – I went on the pill as a young teen to help with my horrendous periods… and after a few months of me hoping the pill had trained it out of them, they were back and worse than the original version.
Anonymous
Weight loss, not being hangry all the time.
kitten
For me quitting BC resulted in less depression, more emotional stability, lower blood pressure, and visible abs. Longer and crampier periods though.
OP
Thanks – it’s the longer and crampier I’m worried about!
Anon
Oh Lordy, the return of your l1bido. I got into m0d the other day trying to describe what it was like but I will just say I felt like a 13 year old dude.
Also, though, for me it was the return of acne, which was a bummer.
I also stopped because of migraines. The trade off was worth it.
What are you going to use instead? I kicked it old school with a diaphragm for a while (I know we could have used c0ndoms, and we did, in addition, at certain times of the month, but unfortunately they were a b0ner killer for my husband and I definitely definitely did not want the b0ner killed at that time in my life! See first paragraph above.)
So then we had two kids and I was paranoid about getting pregnant again so husband got the snip. It didn’t work! He never cleared. So I got a tubal and have never regretted it.
Anonymous
I stopped after 15 years. I had no idea the pill was giving me a flat internal emotional affect. I now “feel” things – which scared me at first but now love. My cycle is not as heavy as when I was a teen but it took 5 months to “regulate.” I recommend using an app / tracker religiously. My cycle timing and emotions are different now. Also read the period repair manual!!
AZCPA
Unfortunately, you won’t know until you do it. Friends who went off at similar ages lost weight, had acne return, had increased libido. I went off at 41 and…couldn’t tell. Practically nothing was different for me (maybe slightly higher variability in when my period started).
Anonanonanon
This is me mostly. Only difference is longer and more painful periods. I sort of wonder why I don’t get back on BC.
312
Looking for recommendations for your favorite walking shoes. Bonus if you have problem feet.
Anonymous
Hoka One One Clifton. I regularly walk 20k+ steps in them at Disneyland, where it is ubiquitous, and my feet barely tingle at the end of 10+ hour days. Hoka is also the standard footwear of choice for hospital staff who are on their feet all day (nurses, technicians, etc.). My husband is a hospital worker and prefers the Bondi as it has a plushier cushioned footbed, but it can look clunky in most of the colorways other than black.
Anonymous
Altra zero drop Lone Ranger.
Junior Associate
Saucony omni ISO1 or any of their previous series except the Omni 19.
Anonymous
Vionic
I have a particular issue in my instep and arch and these ere the shoes that have made a difference for me.
Anon
ABEO if I want something rock solid stable.
Merrell barefoot gloves + superfeet if I want support and ground feel.
Anon
It’s been a while; let’s hear your secrets! Good ones, tough ones, scary ones, let’s hear them all. Maybe we share them or maybe we can support each other. Whatcha got?
Anonymous
I related to the user who was having the affair as my guy hasn’t yet finalized his divorce. I hated that everyone called her a tr0ll because her posts made me feel less alone. Not everyone who has this type of relationship is the horrible monster I used to think. I will be much more gracious when hearing these experiences in the future as I never thought it would be me until it was.
Anon
I don’t think anyone is a monster for dating when they’re fully moved out and separated and the divorce is just pending and hasn’t been finalized. I’m divorced and I met my now second husband in that gray area (it took the courts 9 months to approve our very uncontested divorce paperwork.)
It’s that whole very sus gray area where the husband says his wife is on the same page, they live together “for the kids” but they’re not in a “real” marriage according to the guy, who in reality is just cheating on his wife because she very much is not on the same page and doesn’t know that page even exists.
That’s the scenario people jump to when they hear about someone who is dating but the divorce isn’t final. It’s not actually a gray area. It’s black and white and the husband is just a liar.
Monday
Yes, the posts from that story made clear that the man hadn’t even talked to his wife about separating! The OP was seeking advice about how SHE could help the process along, but it was a cohabiting married couple who had not even separated.
I have been in not one, but two serious relationships with men who were separated and waiting for their divorces to be legally finalized. In both cases, they introduced me to their exes. It’s all about transparency.
Anonymous
+1
Cat
I see a lot of differences between the repeat affair poster and what you just said, FWIW. (In that case the dude wasn’t actually even out of the house yet, much yet legally separated or having filed for divorce; was just making lots of noise about his “unhappiness.” I see a dude who has filed for a divorce but it isn’t 100% final yet as a much less worrisome area!
Anon
Is he separated/moved out? I feel that that’s the core distinction that made her story a bit unnerving to some folks here.
I don’t judge if he isn’t. We all get ourselves into tricky situations and this board can at times have a rather black and white way of thinking about things.
Emma
OP, I feel you. My divorce took 18 months (!) to be finalized (thanks, court shutdown in the early days of COVID). I met my current SO at the tail end of that period, and my EXH and I had not been in the same room, or spoken to each other other than re: divorce stuff, for more than a year at that point. I mentioned it to NewGuy within the first 10 minutes of our first date, before anything physical happened, and he was fine with it. I still got flamed on here for being a horrible person for dating while still legally married.
Anon
I’m sorry you got flamed. I hope it’s helpful to remember that it’s a bunch of people responding here and there isn’t “one” voice – I mean, see the sports commentary above.
I also don’t recall everything thinking the original married boyfriend poster was a tr0ll. I think a lot of people were actually trying to help her, though it took on a tough love flavor. I’d rather someone tell me “your husband is not going to leave his wife” than continue living in fantasy land.
Anon
Sorry, thinko there – “your boyfriend is not going to leave his wife” is what I meant
Anon for this
I mentioned to someone once that I’d been involved with a guy who was legally married and I was surprised at their vehemence about the situation and what *I’d* done. It was a marriage in some stage of over, except when it was not-over and they were “trying to make it work.” In retrospect, this was a huge red flag, but it took me a while to extricate myself from the whole thing. To be frank, I don’t know if it was technically an abusive relationship, but I think “psychologically destructive” is a pretty fair characterization of what happened to me because I got involved with this guy. Really, I think this guy is a psychopath and I hope he’s not partnered.
Anon
People called her a tr0ll because she kept posting about the same situation from different perspectives and not acknowledging that it was all her. No one was saying she’s a tr0ll just because she admitted to sleeping with a married guy.
anon
I really struggle with parenting one of my children. Yes, there are professionals involved. But I never thought I’d be on this road, and it’s hard and isolating.
Anon
Relatedly, my children are grown and I am disappointed in how they turned out. It’s hard when my friends’ children all seem to have families and houses and careers and mine are both still struggling.
Anonymous
I have a somewhat related awkward moment, a boss and I went to dinner and she told me she was disappointed in her kids and wished they were more like me. It was sad all around especially since her daughter and I were the exact same age and boss saw me thriving despite me having significantly less privilege than her daughter.
Anon
My kids will never experience a lot of the hardships that I did being an immigrant and moving around a lot as a kid and I worry that they won’t be as driven to succeed because they will take everything they have for granted.
Anon
Hi mom.
Anon
My husband is killing himself with his terrible lifestyle choices (smoking, drinking, eating junk) and I gave up trying to make him stop. I’m tired of caring more about him than he cares about himself. I bought all the life insurance I could get that didn’t require a medical exam, and now I leave him to his selfish “here for a good time not a long time” bu11sh1t.
Anonymous
Same. My husband keeps quitting smoking and then restarting. I asked my family doctor about it at my last visit – like, is there anything that will help him quit for good – and the doctor said “his own willpower, which apparently isn’t there.” And suggested my husband get a smoker lung scan, which he’s refused to do. He eats pretty well and exercises, but he’s smoking what I’m pretty sure is half a pack a day (he tries to be surreptitious about it, unsuccessfully). He has a family history of serious heart disease and cancer.
I have already started envisioning life without him as I very seriously doubt he’ll make it past 60. We have a will, I’m forcing him to save more 401k money than he’d like to, I made him pay extra for additional life insurance at his job, I am learning how to fix things and how the wifi works, etc. He’s a good companion, and I will miss him when he’s gone but I fully expect a heart attack or cancer diagnosis any day. It will not come as any kind of a surprise. And I have not told him yet but if he gets diagnosed with cancer, I am going to refuse to drain our savings to pay for treatment. If he needs $100k worth of treatment to make it, I guess he’s just going to have to die. He’s not going to compromise my future or our kids’ futures because he chose to smoke.
Anon
I’m the person you responded to. I straight out told my husband that if he needs a transplant, I won’t even get tested to see if I’m a match. I’ve had to fight for every scrap of health I can muster; eating perfectly (including never touching sugar or dairy or alcohol) in order to manage my migraines and GERD and autoimmune issues. I’m not hacking up my body because he chose to abuse his.
Monday
This is deep. Thanks for posting, both.
Anon
Thank you for voicing this. It make some feel less alone. My father is on a kidney transplant list after poorly managing type 2 diabetes for 20 years. Even on dialysis he manages to keep making poor choices (eats out a lot, doesn’t excercise, etc). It’s a point of contention with my family I won’t get tested to see if I’m a match. I’d like to have another baby in a year or two and I won’t be sacrificing my future/health so he can prolong damaging his.
Anon
I couldn’t disagree more with this doctor if he hasn’t tried anything yet (not even Wellbutrin?). He does have willpower if he keeps quitting. He needs medical support to keep him from restarting.
Anonymous for this
I’m so sorry you are dealing with this. I would 100% take the same approach as you in these circumstances. I will say that I think your doctor is wrong, though. There are some medical supports that can help users who want to stop and whose “willpower” is not enough. Varenicline (Champix) has about a 40% success rate for quitting and some nicotine users try multiple, multiple times before they succeed (Source: Family physician with many patients struggling with this). They can try over and over with this drug, for example. Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances known to humans.
I hope your husband keeps trying and is able to succeed and regain his health. If not, I applaud you for not having your head in the sand and having the hard conversations necessary to make sure your kids’ future is secure.
Anon
Thanks for the suggestions. He hated the way Wellbutrin made him feel (he only lasted about a month on it) and Champix didn’t work. He’s tried all the prescription stuff on offer along with gum, patches, therapy, hypnosis, vaping and multiple cold-turkey attempts. I didn’t know that you can try Champix again, repeatedly, and have it work in subsequent attempts, so I may suggest that.
One of the hardest things for me to deal with is his health metrics are great – cholesterol, BP, oxygen saturation, etc. He has some sinus issues but can always find something to attribute those to that’s not related to the smoking (even though there’s a clear correlation). He can go on 25-mile bike rides with ease and come back and still have energy and be fine. He doesn’t see that it’s impacting his health or his life, so his thing is, why try to quit again when quitting is so hard? And I do know it’s hard for him; I have watched him suffer through multiple attempts to quit. He’s quit for long periods before, like a couple of years, but then something happens and he gets stressed out and he goes right back to it. I think it’s going to take some kind of major wake-up call, health-wise, to get him to see this is bad for him and needs to stop. And by then it will still probably be too late.
Anon
In general, bupropion can feel really different eight weeks in than it does a month in. He may not have stuck it out long enough to get the intended effect. For me it made me very agitated until finally it switched over, when it actually made me calmer and more focused than before; this is what my psychiatrist told me to expect from the ramp-up period. (Both before I started it, and the time I called her to complain. My pharmacist told me the same thing when I complained to him.) I wasn’t taking it for smoking cessation though!
Anonymous for this
I really feel for you – it must be so discouraging to watch this happening. I have no suggestions because after all you are dealing with an adult person who is making these choices – there’s literally NOTHING you can do to change them. I do want to tell you that I think you are an amazing person and your kids are so, so lucky to have you for a mom.
Anon
I have a crazy decade long crush on a colleague and he reciprocates. Both of us are married and wouldn’t act on this, but the chemistry is intense sometimes. Our bosses even acknowledge that we are basically two halves of a whole.
Nope
Wow – that does sound intense! Has having it be out in the open between you two made it any better or worse? Like can you laugh about it?
My grandboss disclosed a 5-year crush on me recently and it’s totally screwed with my head. The power dynamic there is obviously terrible. It’s made me question my promotions and successes in the last several years. And while the advice I’d give anyone else is “Nooooooo!” I admit to finding myself tempted sometimes.
Anon
I am the Anon you replied to. It has been good to have it out in the open. For instance, even though our (very large) company has made it clear we can never be in each other’s reporting line, we are not limited in career growth as long as we behave professionally like a married couple working in parallel roles would. Our bosses often pair us on high stakes, short deadline projects because they say our synergy is beyond anything they have ever seen.
We do talk about it sometimes. Maybe we don’t quite laugh, but we sometimes talk wistfully about what might have been if we met at a different point in life. That is as much as ever happens.
Monday
Wow. I’d say that what your grandboss did is make a move on you. “Disclosing a crush” is making a move, and he was indeed hoping you would be “tempted.” I’d be very thrown as well by this! There’s a reason that it’s almost never sanctioned by any employer!
To be clear, I am judging only him, not you.
Anon
How do you know he reciprocates? Are you friends outside of work? Do you think either of your spouses are aware of this and would they care?
Anon
I am the Anon you responded to. Yes, we have talked through the years about what we mean to each other. We are friendly outside of work and our spouses know. At first they were both jealous and angry but after time with no action between me and my colleague or changes in our respective married relationships, they each have come to understand that there is nothing going on beyond our shared feelings and have made peace with it. His wife confides to me sometimes that she is glad I am in the picture because she knows he won’t ever cheat on us (her and me, those are her words). My husband gloats about what a catch he is since I am still with him in spite of my feelings for my colleague.
Anon
Sort of similar, my father was recently diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes. He’s a heavy smoker, no exercise, terrible diet. I’m relieved I live hours away from him so I don’t have to feel obligated to try and get him to change his habits and lifestyle.
Anon
Got prescribed effexor for anxiety and depression, first time to consider meds. I’m not only in my feelings about needing meds to handle my brain but I’ve read about how hard this one is to come off of as I still try to think this is temporary rather than being down to decide now that this is a forever need for me. Any experiences coming off this? Any experiences on whether any mental health meds have felt worth it to you?
Curious
They changed my life. I can do the things I want to do. I do not think I would have the happy marriage or friendships or the enjoyable career I do without meds. Best of luck to you.
Curious
*Note that I also did Cognitive behavioral therapy with a PhD therapist who was wonderful. But I needed the meds to be In a place to do that, and I’ve chosen to stay on a low dose since. Seattle just gets too dark in the winter for me to do otherwise successfully.
Betsy
I think when you ask this you are most likely to get extreme answers in one way or the other, but my experience was very middle of the road. I went on lexapro for about 4 months due to anxiety and depression. I found that on the meds I wasn’t crying all the time, which was nice. I was still feeling the same way, though, I just didn’t care quite as much. I also found that by losing crying as an outlet, I wasn’t doing anything to physically process my feelings. Perhaps relatedly, I developed a killer case of TMJ. I also found gardening to be unenjoyable. I suppose I could have tried different meds, but I was unsure about starting them in the first place and decided it just wasn’t for me. I ended up doubling down on therapy and changing jobs, which helped a lot more.
Anonymous
No advice but I’m in a similar boat, I was diagnosed with anxiety and I definitely need meds, but I’m not sure the benefit will be worth the side effects.
Anon
Effexor worked very well for me but I was not prepared for hard it would be to come off it. You will need to taper very very slowly. I had capsules with small granules inside. (I think it was generic venlafaxine.) I would open the capsules and remove one extra granule per day. (So one on day one, two on day two etc.) No joke, I kept a spreadsheet. It was still very hard and I experienced brain fog and brain zaps (super uncomfortable). But, after a hard weaning off period I was totally fine, so you can get through it. I just wish I had known more about the withdrawal period. I tried weaning off a few times before I had to go the meticulous method described above.
If you need the meds I would still say effexor is a good one, despite all this. It was very effective against depression and anxiety for me.
Emma
Just make sure you follow the doctor’s plan to taper off of it. I’ve seen what it does when people quit cold turkey, and it’s not cool (I had to help someone I was close to who had a psychotic breakdown while in a foreign country because they were feeling good while on vacation and figured they wouldn’t need the meds for that week). When you decide you may not need them anymore, please talk to a medical professional and follow the plan very carefully while monitoring for any weird symptoms.
Senior Attorney
I have a huge wardrobe and post-pandemic I am at about the point where I feel like chucking 90% of it.
My work uniform used to be pants or skirt, knit top, jacket, scarf or statement necklace, and pumps. I cannot for the life of me ever imagine wearing that stuff regularly again, even putting aside the fact that I’m inside two years to retirement. These days it’s on the very casual side of business casual featuring a lot of flowy skirts or even jeans, and sneakers so I can get my 10, 000 steps in.
I’m DONE with uncomfortable shoes.
My skinny ankle pants in every color seem super dated. (The pencil skirts were discarded a while ago.)
I feel like there was a point in the pandemic when we were matching our cloth masks to our outfits, and that pretty much killed scarves, at least for me.
Jackets? Seriously?
And let’s face it, Happily Married Me is about 5-10 pounds heavier than Unhappily Married/Newly Single Me, and five years on, that’s not looking like it’s going to change.
Would it be completely insane to just clear out my closet and only keep the things I am actually wearing plus new things to match my post-pandemic life? Has anybody done it, and were you glad or sad afterwards?
Curious
I want your colorful ankle pants! Seattle is so much less stylish than SoCal…
But I think you’ve really thought this through. As long as you have the budget, why not? I know there are a lot of posts about the ethics of fast fashion, but no one benefits from you holding on to too-small clothes that you won’t wear.
Monday
Assuming you have any storage space, I’d box up the stuff you don’t like and let it sit around for 6-12 months (maybe a full cycle of seasons, to the extent that you have seasons where you live). This will help figure out if you would miss any of these items. I did this at the beginning of Covid because my work clothing had to change drastically. When I went through all of it again, I kept maybe 5% of the stuff. But it still felt reassuring that I had that second pass at it, and didn’t get rid of even one thing I would want later.
I agree that keeping clothes that don’t fit is not worth it.
Curious
This is what I’ve done with most of my maternity and more formal clothes, to hedge against the uncertainty of the next couple of years.
Another Seattleite
I say chuck/sell off most of the maternity clothes. No guarantee the next kid’s due date will be in sync with kiddo #1. And you’re probably now tapped into the neighborhood parents groups and BN groups—there’s always maternity clothes galore on FB should you need anything. I say this as someone whose two kids have the same birth month and are only 3 years apart. Very few pieces from my first pregnancy were enticing enough to wear during the second (and I spent a crap ton on very nice new maternity clothes the first time).
Senior Attorney
It’s weird because almost all of it still fits, but it doesn’t fit well enough to make me happy, if you know what I mean. Boxing up isn’t the worst idea…
Monday
Absolutely. I realized I had a bunch of shirts that technically fit me, but whose fit I just didn’t like. Out they went!
Curious
+1. “It kinda fits” means it doesn’t fit! I kept the maternity stuff because it fits nicely at like 4 sizes, lol. Nice backup clothes. Any maybe someday there will be a baby #2 :).
Anon
I actually boxed up stuff to sell to a secondhand store. Then the pandemic hit so I never took it in. It was fun to go through it later. I rescued two things (maybe 3).
Anon
I am also DONE with heels and my skirts aren’t seeming like the thing anymore. Should we just chuck it all?
Jennifer Mills
It’s still a little cold here but I can’t wait to wear skirts and heels again. I know I will look out of touch but I already do – I loved the conversation about cropped jeans, loafers, etc. and I need to get some of that stuff to offset it.
Anonymous
SO TEMPTED. I can just imagine what my fabulous Woman Cave closets and drawers would look like if they weren’t full to bursting…
Senior Attorney
Heh that was me. Not sure what happened to my browser…
Curious
They would feel and look AMAZING.
Anon
I’m in a very different life stage (early 40s, one toddler, plan to have 1-2 more kids via IVF with banked embryos). I’m contemplating the same exact thing. I have a small wardrobe, but transitioned to full-time WFH in 2016 and 90% of it has not been worn since 2019 and is unlikely to be worn until 2023/2024 at the earliest between pregnancies, postpartum, nursing, not traveling much for work, etc. I’m planning a serious purge this weekend (ex: keep 2-3 blazers and get rid of the other 6-8, etc).
Also SA you’ve earned your 5-10 happy pounds in the best possible way. Wear them in good health! :)
Senior Attorney
Aw, thanks! I really liked being QUITE THIN but guess I’ll have to take it because I don’t seem to want to lay off the Fun With Food and Wine!
Maybe I’ll join you in the purge as my sweet husband is working this weekend…
Anonymous
I had weight loss surgery in September and as a consequence of that, have literally given away every piece of clothing I owned and started fresh. I highly recommend it. I had a truly beautiful wardrobe of professional clothing and cried when I gave it away – but it is SO liberating to have fewer items and to have empty well-spaced closets. Highly recommended.
Worried
This sounds amazing, and I wish I could get to that point of ridding myself of the I’ll fitting items!
After weight loss (that I commented on here a few days ago in another thread) my husband helped me purge tons of my clothes around December. I never had a huge wardrobe of items to begin with, and he encouraged me to get rid of almost everything, and start over with new clothes, even wanting me to spend as much as possible (I am a frugal over thinker…). I chickened out a bit and boxed a few things that for some reason, I could not part with making excuses such as “I bought this dress on a trip to London, this is from Spain, I’ve had this quality skirt since 2004…etc.
I have lots less stuff and a joyful wardrobe now, but I still have too large tops in my favorite colour, and I only one pair of black straight leg jeans that fit. I’ve been wearing baggy jeans because I cannot find new ones that fit well. I don’t own any pants anymore. A sweater I ordered online in my favorite color hangs on me and feels heavy as it is oversized. The list of what I still have goes on.
I dream of going to one store or department store like in the movies, replacing everything in one fell swoop, walking out with bags, arriving home and clearing out the too big items, and having everything fit.
The reality is that it takes me a long time to find things I like that fit. Im now a slim hourglass with a bust, and the styles in stores don’t work for my casual job, and more feminine personal style.
You have inspired me to purge a bit more over this weekend and to just re- try some of the spring items. Luckily, my husband doesn’t mind helping me decide. He calls this purging a ‘fashion parade’ (he sits and rests, while I try on combos of clothes) and is honest when something looks ‘sad’ on me!
Anonymous
I love this! Have fun purging this weekend!
Worried
Thank you…I’m hoping to start off early tomorrow and then go for a longer walk for a few hours so I don’t get overwhelmed!
Anon
what’s your favorite color? you noted you have one and we can help you shop!
Worried
I love yellow, especially buttery or daffodil yellow. It seems to go with everything I own and brightens my complexion. I also wear brighter pinks and blues.
Worried
And thank you for helping me shop:). I can still pull off some of the looser clothes, especially with more fluid fits these days, but it so refreshing to wear things that fit less loosely too.
You know what to do
Get rid of all the uncomfortable shoes, and most of the scarves. Keep maximum three.
Get rid of all the skinny ankle pants – they don’t fit right, the style is over, and if you want new ankle pants at some point you’d rather wear new ones which has current versions of pockets, colors or waist. Keep maximum three.
Get rid of all the jackets that don’t fit. Keep maximum three jackets that fit and that you think would be useful for something deeply unpleasant but necessary, like a funeral or something like that.
Put the just in case items somewhere else than your everyday wardrobe.
And then enjoy a wardrobe of joy, where you would like to wear everything that is hanging in your closet.
Anon
this one is for the rette who loves yellow https://www.theviviennefiles.com/2022/03/adding-a-new-accent-colors-to-your-wardrobe-pantone-colors-autumn-winter-2022-23.html/
Worried
Thank you! This is a feast for my eyes and is giving me the push to go out and replace that yellow:)
Anon
I’m glad to hear it! you’ll be blooming along with the forsythias! cheering you on from here!
Senior Attorney
OMG I will update on the Monday thread, but this is basically what I did!
Anonymous
I vote yes! I did this in two stages. In 2020, I got rid of everything that didn’t fit me at the time, or I hadn’t worn in at least a year, unless I loved it so much that I smiled when I looked at it. (Turns out there were very few of these things, including my very first suit – I was a young law student and my grandma made it! – Sequin dress from a wonderful girls trip – etc). I kept two Rubbermaid totes of basics even if the style was not current. Think an interview outfit, black heels, perfect condition denim and black pants/skirts in different rises and shapes.
Stage 2) in 2021 was wow, I never want to wear uncomfortable heels again, and I prefer wide width shoes to regular. I have allowed myself to store a tote of fancy occasion items, the basic totes above, and a seasonal tote.
Result: I love my closet and wardrobe. I still have way more than I need. I donated all my items to a local womens charity thrift shop. (No judgment if you prefer to sell, i am a big believer in once I’m ready to get it out – it is gone).
Counterpoint- I helped my college roommate clear out her closet last year, too. I brought nine large black trash bags back to my house and put them in the garage. I assured her I would wait a month before donating. She gave me the green light. Then she went to the thrift store six months later, saw a pink skirt, and realized she loved it and paid $7 to get her own skirt back. Other than that she has assured me she hasn’t regretted an item and wants to do another purge. I vote do it and storing if you’re not sure is a great in between option.
Anonymous
Are you seriously asking if it would be insane to clean out your overstuffed closet of things you don’t want to wear? You’re smarter than this question.
Anon
The rudeness is unnecessary. If this was a wine-fueled Friday night comment, next time don’t drink and post!
Anonymous
Gently – we all have different connections to things, many of us found this blog for fashion and style and stayed for the hive, and most of us have been glad at some point that we had a particular clothing option/had something we purchased long ago. It sounds like SA curated a style for much of her career and in a fairly short window of time has changed a lot of that style. Many people ask variations of this question and some do share regret so I am pushing back on being smarter than – sometimes we need a push one way or the other and this is a great spot to crowdsource from people who have never been in our closets.
Worried
+1 I agree. Sometimes we hold onto things for a long time, and one day, we look at our lives and the items…and it’s the right time to let them go. Sometimes I hang onto things after boxing them up and keep revisiting them. Occasionally, an item goes back into circulation, or it just becomes untethered and no longer belongs in our lives.
I think it’s at these moments when the things we once loved and used suddenly lose importance and relevance. That’s why we ask here, and it’s validating having this community as a springboard and for support and ideas.
I have a good memory for items. I can recall an item I wore and got rid of twelve years ago. I think it’s the way I’m wired. I may not miss my denim button short skirt, but my mind still views it as part of a collection I had and yet I have the urge to replace it, even though I likely have other more exciting things that have usurped this.
Senior Attorney
Haha, Anonymous at 7:28, no offense taken! You’re right — to ask the question is to know the answer.
Coach Laura
I’m in a bit of the same position. Two years until retirement but working from home forever. I love the statement jackets and ponte dresses and pretty blouses/tops that I collected and most of which are classic enough to remain in style. (I’m short and busty and it takes a lot of work to find flattering jackets that fit my coloring.) But I won’t wear most of them again. Sometimes I’ll need a formal jacket for a funeral but that need could be met with a long sleeved dress or a cardigan. I’m slowly boxing them up and will keep some for a while since I have the storage space but if/when we downsize I won’t.
Since the start of the pandemic, I’ve added a few long buttonless cardigans and sweater/jackets that are comfy and can be worn to family gatherings or low-key events. I haven’t worn heels but I kept my boots because of the Seattle rain. I do have a few pairs of sandals that have a lowish heel that I’ll keep. My work from home wardrobe is cardigans, cute tunic tops and summer tops, turtlenecks for the winter, tank tops for the summer, ponte sheath or a-line dresses or tank-top dresses and comfy shoes.
anon
If you do, please let us (me!!) shop your closet!!
Anon
I know –like, create a user-name/seller-name on eBay that we’d recognize!
Anon
So I would chuck anything that doesn’t fit. But. I would stop short of chucking the rest of it. My office is casual, but I’m finding as I go back, I’m liking really mixing up the things I have (lots of sneakers with slack, a blazer or jacket and a t-shirt for example). I’m also really getting into dressing UP for dates out with my husband. We’re going back to all the beautiful indoor spots where you can wear clothes and not huddle under a heater. My style is kind of dramatic though (and I’ve gotten the sense yours is too). I’m always culling down things that don’t fit or I don’t love as much as I thought, but hang onto the variety.
Anonymous
I would get rid of anything that’s 5+ years old and doesn’t fit perfectly. All of that is likely to be dated by now. Exception: A special piece that is either extremely classic or so unique it was never in fashion so it will never be out of fashion. If it can be tailored to fit, have that done and wear it.
A well-edited closet that isn’t stuffed full and contains only things you love and use is such a joy.
Anonymous
I would box up everything that doesn’t fit and tuck it in storage. I am about to retire and have had more time to work out and am down a size.
Anonymous
The general idea of skinny jeans lasted a long time. I distinctly remember telling a friend in 2007 I would never wear them….then 2-3 years later that’s all I was wearing, for a decade. In your crystal ball, what shape(s) will be standard and still popular in stores in 5-7 years? Denim and/or dress pants.
– wide leg
– boot cut
– flare
– straight
– cropped/ankle length
– jogger fit
Monday
Straight legs, high waisted. This is a predictable take, but that’s why I think it’s right.
Notagirl
I think joggers are getting ubiquitous and jogger fit is flattering on the same kind of figure that skinny jeans are, so I can see jogger fit lingering on. Especially if slifesstyles keep getting more and more casual.
Shelle
As I approach 40 the throwback silhouettes feel a bit costumey to me since I have memories of them. But then this week I saw a woman wearing a simple straight leg jean that was hemmed to the top of the shoe and wasn’t baggy. It felt like more of a classic look (as much as can be with a constantly evolving aesthetic) and I could suddenly envision it sticking around for a while. Think: the straight leg medium to light wash jeans on Rachel and Monica in Friends. I think the simplicity will give it some staying power. No embellishments or extreme washes, tailored to the body.
Anonymous
I think the waist has more impact on fit than the shape of the leg, and I think higher waists will stay for a while.
I think ankle length will be done by the next 5-7 years.
Would not surprise me to see the return of Levi’s 501 cuts on women.
NYNY
The good thing is that FIL had a notebook filled with his various logins, so I’ve deciphered it, accessed all the accounts online, and created a spreadsheet of everything. I’ve found all the accounts, all the debts, two life insurance policies, and two pensions. One of my BILs will take over next week figuring out the household expenses, but I think I’ve found enough money that his widow will be okay. I adored him, but I have silently cursed him out several times this week.
NYNY
Nesting fail. This was a response on my thread above. Sorry!
Solo
What do you do when you lose just one earring of a cute pair? I have lost several in the last two years by taking on and off masks. Do you keep the one? Toss it?
Notagirl
I keep them and next time I go to the old country, I plan to take them and comission replacement for the most loved ones (possibly using the less loved ones as trade in for part of the cost of the metal/reuse the gems). Or have them remade unto pendants etc. Artisans in my home country do this, and I suspect in many other places where skilled labour is cheaper than here. So may be try it next time you go to Mexico for example?
My jewelry is all sterling silver btw but the same thing is done with gold too.
Another option is to keep some mismatched earrings if they complement each other and wear them that way! I’ve done that too.
Anonymous
If it’s real metal, I keep it to use the metal for repair or resetting. Many earrings can be repurposed into a pendant necklace.
Anon
Wear mismatched ones that coordinate, if they’re real, reuse the stones.
A
Convert to pendant?
The intern
I keep then with the irrational belief that the other will come back to me eventually. It paid off last week when I found an old, sentimental, half of a pair in the lining of a purse. It makes me a bit sad to look at the lonely pretty pink stud in my jewelry box though.
Anon
I’d be tempted to do a reverse image search to try to find somebody selling its mate.
Anon
Please help me refresh/update my style. For context, I’m in my late 30s and am 5’0. My go-to work pants are BR Sloan’s. Do these read as hopelessly out of date? Wider/more straight leg pants feel frumpy or like they make me look even shorter. I suppose I could try bootcut, but feels very early 2000s and would require hemming and different shoes. For spring/summer shoes I like Frye Carson ballet flats or Number 7 like clog styles. Aesthetic is minimal/non-frilly and palette of blue, gray, black, stripes. Favorite stores are Madewell, BR Factory and Athleta. Halp! What key pieces should I get/sub out to look more current? I’m a school psychologist for career context/dress.
Anon
I’m really not trying to be mean, but the look you’re describing is just kinda boring, but not out of date. If you’re doing basically comfort shoes and plain colors, there’s not much to update really. If the pants fit you, wear them. I wouldn’t waste a lot of mental energy here given what you describe and what you do.
Anon
No, I appreciate the honesty. So maybe focus on interesting earrings/jewelry/glasses/haircut instead of clothing and shoes? I just don’t want to be straight up frumpy outdated, but it can be challenging as a very short person. I wear a size 5.5 shoes so options are limited. Also, I work with middle school students so have to look somewhat decent but not trying too hard to have credibility.
Eliza
This is a great question for the wonderful posters at youlookfab dot com! They’re a great mix of posters who can give useful advice.
Anon
Great idea-will do, and thank you!
Anon
Without seeing you, I’m guessing you’re not out of date or frumpy – the stores you’re shopping at are up to date. If you feel like something is missing, I do agree you can’t go wrong with polishing up hair and makeup. Maybe try a bold lip?
Neef
School psychologist here too. I think your look is fine and I also shop at these stores. My rule of thumb is to dress one level above the teachers to garner their respect. No need to power dress (blazers, full suits), you’re not an admin. Shoes: something comfortable you can run up the stairs in or across the building for sudden elopements. Kids love color so I blend in sweaters and tops with colors on testing days.
Anon
Thanks!
Neef
One thing I forgot to add – from one colleague to another- You also don’t want to look like you care too much about fashion (even though we do love our retail therapy). I had a dad once say in an email, “The case manager looks so bored and only looks like she cares about shopping rather than helping my son” (which was complete b.s.). It’s also very tone deaf, and one of my biggest pet peeves, to be sitting in meetings dripping in designer/flashy jewelry when you’re surrounded by families who are struggling on medicaid, or with huge medical bills, even if they have all the money in the world, and you’re telling them their child has a disability for life. So def stay away from the logos, Rolex, and the huge diamonds, it leaves a bad impression. I would also say the same thing about jumping into a benz when parents can see you cutting out at the end of the day. I work in Bergen County in North Jersey so I’m very conscious about how money is flaunted here. Impression is everything!
Anon
Absolutely. :) Appreciate the input; I tend towards no-logo items and sterling silver jewelry, but am definitely conscious of appearing neat and clean but not at all ostentatious.
Woof
I think of ballet flats as out of date. Loafers and block heels are maybe better choices now. And schools are conservative places, generally, so your outfits sound fine. Updating your accessories might be the way to go.
Anon
Good idea. I was checking out the Claudie lugsole Mary Jane from Madewell as an option.
Anon
I’m eyeing a purchase from Garnet Hill. Anyone have a free shipping or other promo code to share?
Go for it
They offer free shipping over $100 (I think(
But not free returns. I’ve picked up some nice things off the sale of the day over the years
Anonymous
25% off this weekend with code SUNSHINE.