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Regarding your experience at your current company (and beyond), what are your thoughts on the following? Have gender issues affected your career in ways that you didn't foresee, as with some of the women in this New York Times article we mentioned when talking about five-year career goals?
Salaries: Do you know if your pay is equal to men at your company with similar jobs? Does management encourage employees to keep salary numbers quiet, or is it more of an open topic where you work? Are women usually successful in negotiating salaries, whether upon hiring or via raises?
Equal access to opportunities: Are women encouraged to apply for upper management and C-suite positions in the way that men are? Do women seem to get promotions at a comparable rate? Are there company events that make you feel like you're a woman in a man's world, and is there a boys' club you feel left out of? What does mentoring look like among men and women at your company?
Parenting issues: Does HR grant men and women similar family leave? Are women job candidates or employees discriminated against because some men assume that they'll shift their priorities if/when they have kids? Is there a working parents' group?
Sexual harassment: How common is inappropriate workplace behavior among male employees? Is it handled appropriately by HR when it takes place?
Do you feel equal to men at work? If not (whether at your company or in general), what would make you feel that way?
Stock photo via Stencil.
Anon
I had one horrific job with a boss who was sexist beyond all belief. HR did nothing but blame me (and every other woman) for the problem. It crippled numerous careers, and I really had the feeling that my career at that company was strangled in the crib. You can talk all day and all night about the lack of talented women who can be promoted to the highest levels, or how women are “leaning out” or “taking less stressful jobs,” but it was obvious to me why this company (famously) had problems getting women into upper management: they allowed talented women to be run off the job in the infancy of their careers.
My voluntary quit went down as a voluntary quit, not “a woman run off the job by horrific harassment.” The whole thing convinced me that so many of our starting assumptions about sexism and inequality are wrong, which is why the conversation goes nowhere.
anon
Exactly. Woman shows up to work to do job, does good job. Male employers talk about how mothers don’t make good employees, ask her how she expects to go to trial if she has a kid at home, ask who is buying groceries if she is at work; tell her she would have been compensated more except that she was pregnant; stares at her breasts. She receives worse work than comparatively talented male employees, is not invited to social outings like golf, looks around and realizes that <20% of partners in private practice are women. In the beginning she's motivated to stick it out and show them all, but over time she wonders if it's worth the constant emotional, mental, and time drain to swim upstream. And even if she did everything right, would she still be pushed out anyways? Becomes increasingly demoralized. Hears about a job in-house where women are treated like equals. Quits.
Men everywhere: "Seeeeee! Women make DifFerEnT cHoICeS!!
The conversation goes no where because people aren't asking the right questions, and because the patriarchy is so dang good at finding sneaky ways to derail the conversation. We're always sent back to square one.
Anon
Exactly.
So Situation #1 (which you describe): death by a thousand cuts. A lot of the people there are “a little bit sexist,” but it compounds over time (much like earning 3% interest vs. 4% interest doesn’t matter in the first year, it matters tremendously by Year 20). Eventually, it’s not worth it.
Situation #2: The Harvey Weinstein situation, which I went through (albeit not quite as bad). One particular man wrecks havoc, destroys careers, causes employees to have mental breakdowns, no one does anything. This particular predator even went out of his way to screw one of the women who quit and was job-hunting: he said nasty things about her to anyone who called up looking for a reference. It is a huge setback, financially, in terms of progression, psychologically, emotionally.
When women say “This isn’t worth it,” no one is asking if it’s the same “this” as men experience. There are so many women who would happily put in the long hours, do the hard work, and climb the ladder if (a) they are being treated like their male peers in the process, and (b) they get the idea that the ladder isn’t going to be yanked away from them because of their gender. More pain, fewer rewards – of course women leave.
anonshmanon
Wow, the way you put it ‘it isn’t the same “this” as men experience’ really struck something in me. So much that I want to tweet this.
I also want to add that it’s not always a male boss assuming that mother’s won’t be as committed or productive, and then don’t give mothers the opportunities to do great work. On average, it’s probably more common with men, but sexism is an unconscious bias that is systemic.
Anon
Tweet away.
Anon
Dang ladies. You are on fire and making some of the best points I’ve heard on this subject. I’ve been generally very lucky in my career and have had very few hostile interactions like the above. However, back in high school I dated a boy who then grew into a man with mental illness and has been stalking me all these years. Of course the law enforcement is a joke in these cases and I’ve had to go to lengths to demand all the snooping websites to remove my info on an almost weekly basis. Recently a recruiter commented how someone with my job experience and expertise should have a more robust online presence for marketability. Choked on my coffee. The patriarchy affects our careers in unexpected ways.
Ellen
I suppose I am very lucky b/c I am a female partner in a law firm and my firm does all they can to advance me as a woman, both internally and externally with industry groups. The only issue I have had is having to deal with certain men (both in the firm and cleint’s) who love to ooogle me and in one case to pinch my tuchus. With all of these other OP’s having much worse issues with their men partners, I suppose I really don’t have all that much to complain about b/c I get a 70% clotheing reimbursement that the men don’t, and I also get to use the firm’s AMEX Platinum card and get 100% free clotheing whenever the manageing partner tells me to buy and wear certain clotheing when I meet with select new and existing clientelle. None of my legal freinds, male or female, get these perks.
Christina
I’m not really sure that equality should necessarily be the goal. For example, at my job, men get the same paternity leave as women get maternity, but in many situations, who is the one who carries the baby for nine months? Who is the one who is recovering from birth, learning how to breast feed and/or recovering from MAJOR surgery – a C-section? Women STILL do more work at home, even when we work outside of the home than our male partners. It was a gut punch to me when I realized that 15 years into my career I was going to have to “scale back” so that I could help out my aging mother and be there as my daughter grew up. I don’t bring work home because I believe that time should be reserved for me and my family, not to mention that my daughter does not do her own thing (yet anyway), while I do mine. This puts me at a disadvantaged compared to my colleagues (not all of whom are men) who are able to bring work home or work extra hours to get something done. More than a women’s equality issue, I believe this is a family issue: who is supposed to raise our children and keep our homes somewhat organized if all of us are supposed to be “on call” 24/7? Do we want to leave ALL of our child rearing/home care/family care to hired help? We’re not doing enough to support women, or ANYONE who is not a single, able bodied white man without family or pets. And I’m a librarian, not a lawyer, rocket scientist or EMT. What is life like for those folks????
Anon
Yep.
Anon
“For example, at my job, men get the same paternity leave as women get maternity, but in many situations, who is the one who carries the baby for nine months? Who is the one who is recovering from birth, learning how to breast feed and/or recovering from MAJOR surgery – a C-section?”
Exactly. Leave is nice for men; it’s a medical necessity for women. Let’s not sink into the whole “bounce back!” culture and undermine the very real physical problems of pregnancy and childbirth.
Dwight Schrute
I’m in financial services/insurance and the divide seems worse than in some other industries. It is very much still a boys club and sexism is rampant. I had a meeting a few weeks ago where a coworker went on a crazy rant about how he has all the best ideas, should be my boss, and I have no idea how business works. He thinks nothing of me having triple the amount of education and relevant experience than he does. He thinks he’s entitled to this…for seemingly no real reason. Astoundingly, my actual bosses just shook their heads and said the equivalent of boys will be boys. Also, this is the same person who routinely says how “expensive” I am because someone in power he’s friends with revealed to him that my salary is at least $20k more.
I very much echo the sentiment said above about death by a thousand cuts. It would be one thing if these were one off situations, but these happen ALL THE TIME. Comments and behavior, even if they have no basis in truth, absolutely impact how you’re perceived and that carries weight when it comes to salary, perks, good job assignments, etc. It feels like I have to spend an enormous amount of time and mental energy devoted to nonsense when that could be time spent doing my actual job or positive things for my company. That doesn’t even touch the impact on my personal life and well-being when I’m undercut everyday because I’m a woman.
I try to be positive and keep fighting for equality, but the fight is relentless…
E
Speaking to my own experience, yes, I feel equal to men at work. I was recently promoted to general counsel of my organization, and received a higher starting salary than my former (male) boss even though he had more experience at the time. I know this because because he told me his salary history before I went into my salary negotiation. I do know that the women I have hired have not tried to negotiate their salaries at all and accepted my first offer without a word – I didn’t have the heart to tell them “by the way, I was prepared to give you $x more”, but before I/they leave, I do plan to say something. Reading the other experiences and considering my own responses, I feel almost guilty, but I have been incredibly fortunate that my male bosses have championed me every step of the way and the men in my industry have always been inclusive – no strings attached. Now that I’m the boss, I’m trying to do the same for younger women and men.
CynLD
I’m an administrator aged 46. Been in this healthcare business for 25 years. I have some (not extensive) contact with our Board of Directors. One male from the board consistently calls me “young lady” when asking friendly, small talk type of questions (also I am barely 5 feet tall). He seems oblivious how completely inappropriate this is. It makes me cringe every time. My company has never had a female CEO. Our current CEO had 0 experience as an Executive Vice President, both our female Executive VPs were passed up for the position (not for lack of trying). If I want to move up, I’m gonna have to move on. Maybe somewhere where I’ll be taken more seriously.