Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Wrap Dress

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1. A Twitter conversation reminded me of childhood mealtime. What foods were staples in your house as a child? What felt impossibly sophisticated? My mom went to night school when I was a kid and on her school nights we ate fish sticks, tater tots, and those wontons that you bake. Mom was not much better, I remember that BBQ pulled chicken in a plastic container that you put in the microwave, chicken with cream of mushroom soup dumped on top. Occasionally we’d have quiche, weirdly always accompanied by a glass of milk and English muffins. When I was babysitting, I was always impressed by the packaged snacks.
   My husband grew up in London, and I felt a bit intimidated when we first met. But it turns out, he was raised as a vegetarian in the 1980s and 1990s, so mostly ate soup? At school, they couldn’t cope with him so just gave him a pile of shredded cheese.

   1. My mother hated to cook, as did her mother before her. My parents were also averse to all spices, onions, and garlic. Regulars in the dinner rotation included spaghetti with ground beef and plain canned tomato sauce, one box of Kraft mac and cheese with a can of tuna stirred in to feed four people, a dry unseasoned steak or chicken breasts with instant mashed potatoes, and burritos made with only canned refried beans and cheese. The vegetable every night was frozen corn, heated in the microwave. Fresh vegetables, salads, sauces, and spices seemed incredibly sophisticated. One of my favorite acts of teenage rebellion was to cook dinner for the family and sneak in some flavor, like adding dehydrated onion flakes to the sloppy joe filling or ground black pepper to the mashed potatoes.

      1. My father used to take overseas trips to Asia (I’m old enough that we called it “the Orient”) and would be away for a month at a time, and during that time, my mother would serve the same meals over and over again since it was just us kids. She bought chicken croquettes in bulk and to this day I can’t eat those things. I also remember when salads first became a “thing” – I really don’t remember eating salads as a child, except maybe those little paper cups of coleslaw as a side dish at a diner.

         1. My dad traveled a lot as a kid too and my mom basically refused to cook if he wasn’t there. I was thrilled to get to eat fast food.

            1. Now that I am a parent, I totally get this. It’s frustrating and exhausting to cook dinner for one adult and two kids when DH was traveling, only to have the kids reject what I make. When I solo parent for a week or more, we eat our way through the Trader Joe’s frozen and bagged-salad sections!

         2. I had chicken croquettes at a friend’s house once and thought that they were impossibly sophisticated (even though they can come frozen in a box). I remember they were delicious!

      2. This makes me so sad for child you. At least you were able to discover lots of new flavors as an adult.

      3. I grew up on a lot of the same food. Lots of convenience stuff. All canned veggies. Instant potatoes. Frozen meals. Tons of junk food, all I could eat, no restrictions. Very few spices.

         In college, I studied abroad in Spain and came home raving to my mom about olive oil and garlic. Such basic things now in retrospect.

         Meats were always well done too. When I met my husband I didn’t like steak or pork chops but that’s because they had only been served to me well done. Once I tried them the way his dad cooked them, I loved them.

         1. Same, the only veggies in my house were out of the frozen birds eye can or ‘steamed’ (boiled) to death. When I studied abroad in Italy I had vegetables sautéed in olive oil, or roasted till they caramelized – it was a total revelation! Even in the late 90’s early 2000’s it wasn’t easy to get ‘good’ olive oil or the variety of fresh veggies we have now. There is a reason that ‘farm to table’ type of restaurants were revolutionary in the early aughts, it just was not how we ate.
            My parents still have pre-ground pepper dust instead of the fresh cracked stuff, prefer boiled vegetables and less spice, it’s just what they grew up with and are used to. That being said, while they won’t cook for themselves that way they are very happy to eat more adventurously outside their home?!?

            1. My grandmother was first generation Italian-American, and I consider myself SO lucky to have been exposed to that style of cooking and eating in the 80s. It was really uncommon.

   2. I was born in India, but moved to the US when I was young. My mom was home so I remember her cooking Indian food all the time for dinner. It was rare for us to eat fast food so that was kind of a treat.

      Hostess powdered mini donuts remind me of high school. I remember snacking on them while watching Beverly Hills 90210.

      My husband is white and grew up with a single dad and three other siblings to they ate a lot of casseroles and frozen meals.

      I had never had iced tea until I met my husband. He had and iced tea maker and I found out I really liked it. I make it all the time now.

   3. Meatloaf, mashed potatoes, and peas. Baked potatoes with baked beans on top. Stir fry that was surprisingly pretty authentic. A dish involving rice, onions, ham, and peas. Split pea soup. Chicken pot pie. I was raised by my mother and grandmother, and my grandma did all the cooking.

      1. Ooh, meatloaf and mash potatoes out of the box. Could definitely enjoy some meatloaf.

      2. My mom really doesn’t like meatloaf, so I still vividly remember having it for the first time. I loved it (even though my aunt who made it added an insane amount of salt). Now, meatloaf is like a special treat to me, and if I see it in a restaurant, I’ll often order it, because its not something I would think to make of at home.

   4. My mom is a great cook, but I was an impossibly picky eater plus I grew up in the 90s, the era of Lunchables etc, so my parents fed me lots of “kid” food – frozen pizza, fish sticks, frozen fries – because that’s all I would eat.

      I used to come home from school in the afternoons and sit at the kitchen table with my book and a plateful of assorted crackers and cheese read for hours. That was a ritual I enjoyed very much.

      1. I love the image of you with your book and your cheese and crackers. That’s a ritual I’d enjoy any time.

         1. Right? Sign me right up for that! (And can I also have some wine?)

   5. A friend of mine was shocked at lunchtime today to discover that a housemate had never heard of or seen eggy bread/French toast.

      I remember a lot of pasta and pesto when I was a kid, always with frozen peas.

   6. Fun question! I have been thinking about how what I make as dinner staples differ from what I grew up with as a child, although honestly my mom is a great cook whose cooking looks fairly “modern” by today’s standards. I lived in California so we grilled all year long and that was the basis of most meals – grilled chicken breasts, grilled steak, hamburgers. Always with a starch (potatoes, rice, pasta, couscous) and a veg like frozen carrots and peas, broccoli, etc. My dad made exactly 3 meals all involving ground beef: burgers, spaghetti, sloppy joes. What struck me as the fanciest meal was a pasta my mom would make with asparagus, mushrooms and sundried tomatoes – epitome of CA in the late 80s/early 90s I think. Home cooked fajitas were my absolute favorite meal, and I have to mention that we were eating avocado on sourdough toast WAY WAY before it was cool. Now, I cook somewhat differently – it took me a while to figure out how you cook meat when you can’t grill. More “global” flavors, especially Asian-inflected. Lots more fresh herbs, and less of a focus on meat.

      1. I grew up in SoCal with avocado trees in my backyard. I read once that avocado toast was invented by SoCal moms as a way to use up extra avocados for after-school snacks.

      2. Haha, same re. grilling! I grew up in California grilling (we called it barbecuing) everything over charcoal on a Weber grill. We even grilled the Christmas turkey. Now I live on the East Coast with a husband who insists on a gas grill, which for whatever reason is much more of a pain to use and clean. I had to learn to cook meat on the stove and in the oven.

      3. Oh I just remembered we had fajitas all the time! The yellow box kit. Which I still enjoy today.

   7. My mom had a solid five-night rotation, some of which I remember very clearly (I have no idea what we ate on the weekends). Sweet and sour pork with pineapple, carrots and green peppers from an old Betty Crocker cookbook, meatloaf, mashed potatoes and canned green beans, spaghetti (often with butter when we kids were small and picky, later with cut up leftover breakfast sausage in it), and on Fridays tacos for the grownups/burritos with nothing but refried beans and cheddar for the kids. We also had canned soup with some frequency and for whatever reason it was always accompanied by cornbread, plus apples and cheese slices on occasion. I can’t remember what I thought was sophisticated food. Probably elaborate salads and fettuccine Alfredo.

      1. Oh, and sometimes we also had “tuna on toast,” in which my dad mixed a can of tuna with a can of cream of something soup (it was flexible) and heated it on the stove until he was done toasting and buttering the bread. I didn’t realize this was something other people did until just a few years ago. I imagine he got it from his mother, an accomplished cook who fed her family of 8 on a rural bank teller’s salary for many years.

         1. My mom used to serve creamed tuna on toast. She made the cream sauce herself from flour, butter, and milk, so it didn’t even have the flavor of canned cream of something soup. The memory still makes me shudder.

   8. My mom freely admits she was not a good cook until she started watching a lot of the Food Network, which wasn’t until we were almost grown, and she did most of the cooking growing up (because my dad worked in the evenings… running his restaurant. The irony isn’t lost on us). We ate a lot of the Stouffer’s lasagna, poppy seed chicken, and spaghetti. Sundays were pizza night. And of course some nights we did get takeout from dad’s restaurant (seafood).

   9. My mother was an excellent cook. Our staple dinner was def fish, breaded and pan fried, but for fancy we’d have salmon mousse prepared in a fish shaped mold. Which now I think I need to bring back.

      1. Def fish sounds like what homeboy seniors eat

         1. Lol! This is an excellent callback.

         2. All day yesterday I kept thinking of an old guy dressed like Flavor Flav saying “yo, I lost my dentures”

      2. My mom is an exellent cook. She learned from my Grandma Trudy, and that is the reason she was able to snag Dad, whose standards were very high. His ideal woman was Mom — able to cook, balance the checkbook, sew and take care of the children while he worked. Mom was all that and more b/c she had a BA degree from Hunter College, which used to be a very good school.
         Mom can cook anything and keep Dad happy. He says he is 10 pounds over weight b/c of Mom’s cooking, but he would have starved to death if he married anyone else, particularly so many of women overseas who “did not even know how to boil a potatoe!”. As a result, I also gained weight, tho I’ve gained more on my own b/c of the pandemic then I ever did at home. Rosa, on the other hand, always remained svelte, with no tuchus even tho she has 4 kids. Is there any reason why she got all the luck? Dad says it is b/c she has Ed, who keeps her svelte at night with all of the schvitzing in bed! But w/4 kids, I would have thought that would make her heavy, but she does not cook bad things. Her housekeeper only buys organic and cooks organic stuff for all of them. Ed was pudgy until he had a gas attack last year, and since then, he has been on a veggie diet. It really depends on what you eat, Mom says, and she is right! YAY!!!

   10. My mom was (is) a good cook and we had pretty decent variety. I definitely got through elementary school on the power of PB sandwiches but dinners were good.

       I remember thinking “foreign” recipes were fancy (like chicken provencal, fettuccine alfredo, ginger-soy pork).

       The most “my how times have changed” thing I remember is that we would be served slices of plain white sandwich bread on the side when we had spaghetti. I guess grocery stores didn’t have quite the bakery assortment they do now!

   11. I grew up mostly in the 80s and my mom was a WASP, so we ate a LOT of plain chicken. Also pasta based casseroles and other meals (creamed chicken on toast, some sort of chicken and pasta bake with pimientos). The “fancy” one (maybe bc ground beef?) was called Million Dollar Spaghetti Casserole, which my mom made for church potlucks etc. Vegetables were all boiled or steamed within an inch of their lives, and my mom was very parsimonious with the salt and pepper (there were other spices that she had, but never used). Salad every night with dinner. My dad worked long hours and couldn’t cook (still can’t) so on the rare occasion that my mom was sick, he made us eggs and toast or bologna and onions.

       DH grew up with a single dad (who didn’t know how to cook and had someone make them casseroles every week), and when I met him he was living in NYC so just went out to eat every day, or got takeout. The man DID NOT OWN A SPONGE. I remember going to National Wholesale Liquidators with him and having him buy a sponge, dish soap, and a vacuum cleaner (he had been living in one place for a year plus. The dust bunnies!).

       1. Kind of incredible the standards for men back then. A full grown adult and father not knowing how to cook was completely acceptable. I wouldn’t even consider dating someone if they couldn’t cook at least the basics today.

       2. OMG, I had completely forgotten National Wholesale Liquidators! I got so many household items there in my 20’s, and probably about half of my wardrobe at the time. Natty Ho for short. :-)

   12. My mother is an excellent cook. Black eyed peas. Collared greens. Fried chicken and fish. Fried potatoes. Spaghetti in the black person way. On busy nights, hamburger helper.

       1. What’s spaghetti in the black person way?

       2. My mom is a decent cook but we ate a lot of the same foods! The collards and blackeyed peas were saved for Sunday dinner, but we’d regularly have fried chicken or spaghetti during the week. My mom would also make homemade Lunchables with saltines, lunchmeat, slice tomato, topped with hot sauce and green onions.

          My parents went grocery shopping every 2 weeks, and on grocery night it was “go for yourself night” which meant you eat something leftover in the fridge, or a sandwich, or a bowl of cereal. To this day, I call those random meal nights “go for yourself night”.

       3. I’m curious what is spaghetti in the black person way? I really want to know cause I’m black and always thought my moms spaghetti was pretty basic (Noodles, tomato sauce, Italian herbs seasoning and ground beef). How can I level up?

       4. My parents are white but from a Carolina. No collards and dad has a thing against okra. Did you all cook on cast iron (cook wear that you can flatten a steak or chicken breast with or use as a weapon) also? I feel like cast iron is my connection to my family’s past. I adore black eyed peas also also steamed cabbage that somehow also has a bit of butter (or lard?????) in it. One grandmother fried burgers in lard. She lived into her mid 90s.

          1. I love cast iron! I have two cast iron skillets and a cast iron dutch oven.

             My grandmothers kept cans of bacon grease on the stove at all times.

          2. I have a cast iron skillet that my mother started seasoning for me when I was born and gave to me when I got my first apartment. She did the same for my brother. You can quick season a cast iron skillet and it’s “fine”, but for the deep, unassailable, truly non stick finish, it take a long time of cooking bacon or things sautéed in bacon grease. Which is not happening in my life, so I am forever grateful for this gift from my mother.

       5. Re: black person spaghetti. She browns ground meat with onions and bell peppers, heavily seasons it with seasoning salt and other spices, mixes it with a sloppy joe style sauce, and then mixes it altogether with the pasta. Ideally served with fried catfish on the side. There is no marinara, no herbs to speak of, and no meatballs.

          1. Oh, that sounds tasty! I’ve sometimes mixed leftover sloppy joe meat with leftover noodles just to use things up, and it’s really good. I don’t think I’ve ever thought to make this as a meal on it’s own, though.

          2. Is there another name for this dish?

             1. This sounds like Cincinnati chili? My grandparents are in the Midwest and they also make spaghetti this way, though no peppers, and with raw onion on top.

          3. Okay so not spaghetti, but rather a sloppy joeish pasta. This is so interesting to me – I’m of African American descent and have never seen anyone in my family make this, especially not with catfish on the side. It’s pretty cool to see the subcultures of American food, even amongst people of similar background.

             1. Well the pasta is spaghetti (as opposed to a different pasta shape), but it is definitely not traditional Italian spaghetti for sure.

                What part of the country are your people from? We are in the Midwest, migrating from Mississippi a few generations ago. There are definitely regional differences in Black food.

             2. I was shocked that people put olives on deviled eggs. Even just in the south, there are regional varieties to the point where when a restaurant says southern / soul food, I have a million questions re “where y’all from” otherwise it is bound to be not what I think of as being that.

                Paprika on deviled eggs. And with relish and a good helping of pickle juice (my husband cannot stand any pickle solid in deviled eggs, which is Problematic). Add isn’t paprika Hungarian??? I am not sure how this food tradition developed at all.

             3. I found this interesting article

                https://heated.medium.com/is-fried-fish-and-spaghetti-soul-foods-most-debatable-dish-3ff2c328a311

                Spaghetti and fried fish is a soul food classic. It seems to be one of those “if you know, you know” things.

          4. That sounds almost like these frozen cincinnati-style chili dinners my husband buys (and swears to me are in fact real cincinnati-style chili. Me: “But it has spaghetti?!”)

   13. My Grandmother was a cook for a living so luckily that rubbed off on my mother. We rarely ate super processed or packaged food. We ate the easy versions of the fancy meals grandmother made. Faves were spaghetti, meatloaf and mashed potatoes, chicken rice casserole with cream of mushroom, homemade enchiladas, and the variety of weird concoctions when my mom wanted to experiment. Most meals were some form of baked meat or fish, a vegetable and garlic bread.

   14. I was raised in the south by my grandmother, so we ate just what you’d think a southern granny would cook all the time. Lots of pork, fried chicken and fish, and the periodic steak for protein. We had a very large garden, so lots of vegetables from the garden in the summer, and frozen/canned vegetables and fruits for the rest of the year. Cornbread, biscuits, or Wonderbread for the starch. She thought breakfast was VERY IMPORTANT so I actually got a hot breakfast every morning. She also thoughts sweets were VERY IMPORTANT so we always had cakes, pies, and homemade candy around. It was really delicious, but definitely not how I eat now on the daily!

   15. I roll my eyes at memes about Americans and Brits not using spices or flavoring in their food thinking, oh that’s an exaggerated joke…but seeing what everyone here is posting about childhood meals, I’m just glad we have much more adventurous food tastes than our parents. I can’t relate to not seasoning food as a southerner but we definitely over season down here, so there’s also a learning curve there to learn to appreciate the flavors of the food itself.

       1. Same. I was honestly shocked to learn that “plain” food was a thing for so many people.

       2. My mom was incredibly averse to adding salt to anything, and vegetables couldn’t have even a tiny bit of oil or butter on them. And as for butter, I grew up in the 80s when butter was going to kill us all, so we had all of these weird butter substitutes that tasted like plastic.

          Some of this was a reaction to my grandmother, who fried all kinds of things and put salt on watermelon, grapefruit, anything that didn’t move.

   16. My mom was a single mom who worked very long hours AND hated to cook, so meals would have been a challenge no matter what. My grandmother who helped raise me also hated to cook. I half-joke that I learned to cook to survive.

       No one in my family has heard of salt and pepper. Forget any other spice. (My aunt, the “good cook” in the family, can make visually appealing dishes – they could be on a Martha Stewart magazine cover, but they won’t have any flavor at all. Truly, like eating paper.) To this day, my mom only knows how to make 4 things:

       – bone-in pork chops baked in the same casserole dish as Betty Crocker Au Gratin potatoes from a box

       – Shake n Bake pork chops with the aforementioned au gratin potatoes on the side (this was my favorite)

       – ham steak baked in the oven, served with canned green beans boiled on the stove in their can juices, with boil-in-bag white rice – all plain with no seasoning

       – Shepherd’s pie – this was our fancy meal, maybe a few times a year – scratch made baked potatoes, ground beef, and canned green peas layered together. No seasoning.

       The rest of the time I ate KidCuisine frozen dinners or Progresso canned soup (which never crosses my lips today). If mom was particularly exhausted and the shelves were bare, I remember that saltines with peanut butter and Ritz crackers with jelly would be dinner. Yep, just sit on down at the coffee table with the sleeves of crackers, a knife, and the PB and J.

       My husband grew up in a southern country family where everyone, male and female, can cook a feast and make it look effortless and talk to you a mile a minute while doing it. The difference in our childhoods is like the Wizard of Oz segments in black and white and in technicolor.

       1. Omg I’m so sorry. It boggles my mind that people come from a family culture that doesn’t enjoy food. Food is at the center of most family celebrations (fam not big drinkers).

       2. Southern person here — this is often true. My dad is a non-cooker but his brothers cook amazing meals.

          Also: no reptation for spices but we cook with a lot of apple cider vinegar, red pepper, and a lot of thinks for pickling cucumbers and watermelon rinds (and also making delicious relishes).

          Only raw veggies are rigid; cooked veggies are very soft.

          1. Let me guess – North Carolinian?

             1. Eastern North Carolina. I traveled west in the state and was shocked that their BBQ is not our BBQ and it is the same state (granted: it is a very long state, but the “east” ends at Raleigh). Don’t even get me started on other things passing as BBQ (which is a noun, y’all, not a verb!).

             2. As yes, the great BBQ divide. But I think we can all agree that the part of the South that is just wrong is whoever came up with the mustard-based BBQ sauce (I think it’s south carolina?). No thank you.

             3. Yes — them’s fighting words, to be sure. And no to mustard. Just no.

                Oddly, I have a crockpot “BBQ” recipe for beef (chuck roast) that calls for ketchup, mustard, and vinegar and I make it for my halal friends and it is delish! Of course it is good — it is from a Junior League cookbook.

       3. Kid Cuisine! My Nana was an amazing cookie baker, but a fairly questionable cook. Lunch would be some lunch meat, crackers, zesty dill pickles, cottage cheese, and tinned peaches.

          1. Man, I loved Kid Cuisine. Grandma always had it when me and my sister came over for the day.

       4. HAHAHAHA oh yes to the pork chops with the Betty Crocker potatoes! I grew up in the 70s and was a young wife in the early 80s and I served that to my husband and thought I was very fancy indeed because I added canned mushrooms!!

   17. My mom is a fine cook in a lot of ways, but one of her go-tos was “steak,” which was a cheap cut (bottom round, maybe?), topped with sliced onions, barely seasoned (she has a weird aversion to adding salt, though she cooks/eats plenty of packaged foods that are super-salty), and cooked in the oven to well-done. You had to cut it into tiny pieces and drown it in A-1 to make it eatable.

       I was literally an adult before I understood why people were always talking about how great steak was. I thought I just had a fundamentally different sense of taste or something.

   18. My mom has a few random meals that are her “staples” that I remember eating whenever she had the time to cook them (so on the weekends I guess?): Steak and “mom’s potatoes” (roasted baby potatoes); chicken cacciatore; chicken curry from the Canyon Rach cookbook; breaded pork chops. She also very rarely would make Lebanese food (she grew up in Lebanon), and that was always a huge treat, as we usually only got to eat it at our grandparent’s house. In particular, I LOVED baby zucchinis stuffed with lamb, onions, and pine nuts in a lemon sauce over rice. Yum.
       I really don’t remember what we ate on other nights, although I do remember loving Kraft macaroni & cheese. I’ve never liked any other kind of macaroni & cheese, but I’m dairy-free now, so I guess it will stay that way.

   19. My mom didn’t really like to cook but I will always remember her goulash (not the Hungarian kind, the hamburger helper kind, but from scratch) and the stroganoff she’d make for my birthday because I loved it so much. Fortunately I got both of these recipes down before she died and now they’re comfort foods of mine.

       I am a pretty fancy cook but these two dishes still hit the spot.

       She also made SOS when things were tight, but with regular ground beef and not chipped beef like I’ve heard of. I should probably make some of that.

       1. OMG we went camping this fall and Goulash was billed as the meal and I was really curious as no one was Hungarian and that seemed to be a feat to pull off with little propane burgers in the forest. Like I was mulling this over all week about how weak my camping food game is. And . . . it was not Hungarian but it was totally delicious and I have learned how to make it at home.

          There is a continuum:
          Spaghetti
          Spahgetti the black person way (see, comment, supra)
          Goulash
          Chili mac

          And now I am so, so so hungry for something delicious

          1. I’m glad there’s another Goulash, Not Hungarian fan on here! I have to say my kids really look forward to it. My sisters and I couldn’t figure out how to make it like mom’s until we figured out you don’t drain the ground beef after you brown it hahaha.

             I’m super curious about black person spaghetti now!! I’m going to see if I can find a recipe.

   20. This is such a fun question. I grew up lower middle class, and there were six of us, so we ate a lot of casseroles with canned vegetables as sides. I actually don’t think I ate fresh vegetables until I met my husband, which is terrible. Staples were: hamburger helper, chicken enchilada casserole with canned chicken (which makes me want to puke), salmon patties, meatloaf (my fave), fish sticks. We got pizza from Cici’s on Friday night, and that was the one night we were allowed to have soda. I had never had a steak until my bff’s dad made them for dinner one night. I think I was 17. We never bought name brand food – to this day DH admonishes me that we can afford real Oreos instead of store brand. I remember being intrigued by Lunchables the first time I encountered them. Grandma (mom’s mom) was a phenomenal cook, as were her mom and aunt. We used to go to my great aunt’s farm house for fried chicken and rolls. OMG I still remember how good they were. My paternal grandfather is cajun and also a phenomenal cook: his roast is to die for. DH and I are making our way through culinary adventures ourselves, though he comes to it more naturally than I do.

   21. My mom was and is a bad cook, which has left me struggling as an adult to figure out how to plan out a week’s worth of food and how to use spices. Staples at our house were George Foreman grilled chicken (no seasoning) over a salad and odd sandwiches – I distinctly remember brining cottage cheese sandwiches to school as a kid. I was a picky eater and my parents didn’t know how to use spices, so I ate a lot of grilled cheese, mac and cheese and frozen pizza. In high school I learned how to make my own pizzas and it was life changing.

       My parents visited a couple of months ago and I asked my mom to cook one night since I was busy. She made some sort of white, bland fish cooked only in olive oil and steamed veggies. I felt like a kid again, poking at the food and trying to swallow it, desperately missing spice and flavor!

   22. It’s interesting to me that so many people say their moms didn’t like to cook, and almost no one is talking about their dad cooking.

       I know we’re a mix of ages on here, but many of us grew up with moms in the first generation of mom being expected to work outside the home. On top of that and probably being expected to do the vast majority of the housework, our moms had to cook dinner every single night. We didn’t have DoorDash. The only things available for delivery in my home town were pizza and Chinese food, which my mom found too expensive unless it was someone’s birthday.

       We also have to keep in mind that our moms, at least for those of us on the older side, came of age in an era when canned and frozen foods were being marketed as fresher and more reliable than grocery store produce. In fact, no grocery store produce aisle of my childhood memories was anywhere near as big as the giant produce sections today. The idea that there would ever have been no fewer than 5 types of fresh tomatoes to choose from, sometimes 10, would have blown teenage me away. There were just tomatoes.

       Even though I say my mom didn’t like to cook and was therefore not a great cook, damn, that woman worked full time and fed us every. single. night. My dad never lifted a finger in the kitchen even though he and my mom worked the same hours. My mom also made sure there were always groceries in the house, and the right groceries. I don’t remember things ever going bad in the fridge because we got too busy, even thought we were all undoubtedly busy.

       My dad never earned as much money as either of them thought he should earn (some is on him, some of it is on the system) so she had to work full time when she didn’t want to. My mom only ever wanted to be a housewife but life didn’t work out that way for her. I spend a lot of time mentally thanking her for doing it all, the older I get and realizing how much it was, and silently forgiving her for her frequent short, irritable tempers.

       1. I can relate so much to this post.

          I hope your Mom is still alive so you can thank her and tell her how much you admire what she did.

          I think back to what my Mom dad…… Graduate school, raising 3 kids, working full time, doing all the shopping/cleaning/cooking/life organizing. My father worked and did some laundry and caused a lot of stress in the house. That’s it.

          I only realize now that I could never have done what she did, which was also in the setting of financial stress and a bad marriage. She has passed away…. too young… never got to retire and finally relax. I feel a lot of guilt for never thanking her properly and telling her how much I admire her now.

          1. Thank you. My mom also died early – COPD. I think cigarettes and vodka were her only coping mechanisms and she paid the ultimate price. It all seems so unfair.

             1. Yes, so unfair…

                I’m so sorry about your Mom.

       2. Same here! My mom talks about holding my then-one-year-old brother and crying and crying the night before she had to back to work full time as a teacher in 1962. And my dad never did one. single. thing. to help with feeding us, other than performative grilling of steaks or chicken she had purchased and prepared and then served when he took them off the grill.

          Back in her day, if you forgot to thaw the ground beef for dinner you were out of luck! She didn’t even get a microwave until I went away to college. There was no takeout to speak of, and the big game-changer was the crockpot. I remember she’d make spaghetti sauce in the crockpot, which then became the next night’s chili with the addition of beans (and MAYBE a tiny bit of chili powder but I wouldn’t swear to it).

          She loved the I Hate to Cook Book and made many of those recipes, including round steak sprinkled with dry onion soup mix, wrapped in foil, and cooked in the oven; hamburger stroganoff over noodles (I loved that recipe because it includes the phrase “let it simmer while you light a cigarette and stare sullenly at the sink”), and chicken and rice cooked with canned mushrooms and their juice (I made that one for the extended family the night she died, in her honor). Vegetables were canned or frozen, salad was a quarter of a head of iceberg lettuce with a blob of miracle whip or maybe some canned fruit cocktail. She liked to entertain and would make casseroles from the Sunset Magazine casserole cookbook.

          Also, Mom’s tacos: ground beef crumbles in corn tortillas fried in oil, topped with shredded cheddar cheese and a mix of tomatoes, onions, and the aforementioned Miracle Whip. And chopped iceberg lettuce. I would give my right arm for one of those right about now.

          1. I remember getting a microwave when I was hmm, in middle school, and man it was a game changer. Not just for rewarming foods, and for the new crop of TV dinners (that suddenly didn’t take a half hour in the oven), but for saving you if you forgot to defrost the meat, or for making quick rice or veggies…

             1. We got one in the late 70s from my mom’s kooky friend who bought one and then decided it was going to kill her. My mom had to pay her friend installment payments.

                My sisters and I like to explode hotdogs in it. We still ate them. Food waste was a big no-no in our house.

                My mom gave up trying to cook in it pretty quickly, frustrated at the installment payments for something that took up half her counter space, solely used to explode hot dogs.

             2. My mom was so hilarious: “Oh, it doesn’t seem fair to get one now that you’re leaving!” “Mom, it’s not for me, it’s for you!!”

       3. It is a bit interesting, isn’t it, about the gender norms being exposed through this discussion?
          My dad is the one who taught both my brother and me to cook (and shop), taking our different food preferences into account – so I learned to make pigs hearts in cream sauce (don’t @ me, it is delish), salad, and beef roast, and my brother learned to make pork roast and other stuff I don’t recall. The man could not remember whom of us liked milk and who liked dark chocolate (I still take that one way too personal, can you tell?), but he made sure we could make our own favourite dishes, and knew what a good price was for the ingredients.

          Might have been different if my mother had lived, but I don’t think so. He was always the more nurturing parent in his own difficult way

   23. My dad’s mom was an excellent cook and worked in a restaurant, so my dad grew up eating delicious food. My mom’s mom was a very resentful housewife who was wicked smart and would have preferred to be a college professor than a used-car salesman’s wife in a small town. So she reluctantly cooked but mostly drank. This meant my mom didn’t really learn to cook well and also was a sticking point in my parent’s poor marriage since my dad was used to good, homecooked meals. My mom would make taco salad, a chicken thing with canned cream of chicken soup and mushrooms, and a biscuit cheeseburger pie thing. We also had spaghetti often and swedish meatballs. I was a vegetarian from a young age which made my mom upset that I wouldn’t eat any of these things that all had meat in them, so I ate a lot of oatmeal for dinner as a child. My parents eventually divorced and we then ate a lot of take-out and frozen lasagna. My mom would batch cook things like ground beef for spaghetti, tacos, etc. (But again, vegetarian…) When we were with my dad, he would sometimes grill but mostly we ate pizza. My dad’s mom continued to cook and taught me to cook since I spent a lot of time with her growing up. When we would go to my mom’s parents house my grandpa did all the cooking (he would grill). Once he died, my grandma started cooking and we were all shocked that she was actually a really good cook. She just resented that role so much I think. Now, in my house, both my husband and I cook about equal amounts. He works later than I do most of the time, but if he is home first or on his days off he knows how to make everything that we eat as a family. He was raised by older parents and his dad was already retired when he was growing up and so his dad did most of the cooking. Both his parents taught him to cook before he went off to college.

   24. My parents were traveling hippies in Europe before kids. My mom was a great cook. Dinners lasted hours included salad and cheese courses. I was not happy about this, because I had to wash the dishes (ha).

       I remember the parents of my neighborhood friends being astonished by my ability to use a knife and fork together from a young age (“who taught you to hold your utensils that way?!”).

       Also, the day after parent and teacher conferences, my teachers all remarked that my parents were SO THIN!!! Eating real food probably had a lot to do with that.

   25. I really can’t remember much of childhood meals. My mom was at home until I was 10 or so, so she did most of the dinner cooking, but my dad cooked on holidays and weekends and he does most of the cooking since he retired. My brother was a very picky eater as a kid, which limited my mom to simple dishes or those that can be served with separate ingredients (as opposed to mixed together like a casserole, which were definitely not an option!). I’ve been a vegetarian since I was 13, so after that, I did a lot of the cooking for at least myself, and sometimes the whole family, though I wasn’t home that much for dinner in high school.

   26. My mom was a home economics teacher and an amazing, adventurous cook, and also a little hippy dippy, so I grew up eating everything. I was a little embarrassed in elementary school by my sandwiches on homemade multigrain (brown!) bread when all my friends had Wonder bread, but now I know how lucky I was. I do remember learning about pesto from my incredibly sophisticated aunt in San Francisco around 1980. My siblings and I all were suspicious of the “green spaghetti,” but we tried a little and loved it, so it became a staple at home. The same aunt owned a bookstore/cafe in Oakland at the time, and introduced us to Italian sodas, which were seriously the fanciest thing ever.

   27. I became a vegetarian in middle school and my parents got me a subscription to the Vegetarian Times (in the 90’s). Everything in there seemed so glamorous and yes, I cooked it for myself for dinner. I think my first meals out of VT were some ravolis with green veggies like peas and baked tofu with wheat germ on the outside. The tofu was disgusting but I convinced myself that I liked it because it seemed sophisticated and fancy. I would also buy silken tofu because I liked the name, even though it’s the worst kind of tofu.

   28. I’m older than most here, grew up in the 60s and 70s in the Midwest, and food was relatively plain. But I’ve discovered that no one else eats one thing we always had when my dad was out of town (because he gew up in abject poverty and once he was middle class believed every meal needed meat): Canned tomato soup with popcorn instead of crackers or croutons. I still love it.

   29. Late to this but can I just say I’ve really enjoyed reading everyone’s responses?

       My maternal side of the family comes from Taiwan and my grandmother, uncle and aunts, and my parents immigrated to the US in the late 1970s, early 1980s. My maternal cousins, my sibling, and I were all born in the US. So we ate a lot of Taiwanese/Hakka based foods growing up, especially when my maternal grandmother was cooking. Most days meals were rice with a vegetable or two with maybe some meat or tofu or bean-curd based thing for protein. Sometimes we would have noodles instead of rice. For lunch my mom decided to make it easy and gave me American-style food like sandwiches and fruit. For special occasions, Grandma would go full on fancy and cook Japanese food, including my favorite as a kid – vegetable tempura! There was miso soup, fish, lightly steamed then blanched vegetables with a dash of soy sauce… etc. Oh and did I mention Grandma had been a vegetarian for decades (religious reasons)? She was an AMAZING cook – no one in the family can even come close imo, even though one of my cousins is doing a pretty good job. My mom was a decent cook, but honestly her brother is better since he had actually worked as a cook in Japan.

       The funny thing is, my favorite food as a kid was spaghetti. Because I only got to eat that either only at school (ick), at friends’ houses, or at somewhere like Olive Garden or Ruby Tuesday, which 6 year old me thought was **fancy**.

   30. My parents love to cook, have >30 cookbooks (back in 80-90s post-Soviet era) and had many weeknight and weekend menu options. Most of them would easily fit in 2021 kitchens, I attribute this to the fact they cooked a mix of CEE cuisines (Czech, Slovak, Hungarian, Ukrainian, Austrian), some pretty authentic Chinese and Mexican (following cookbooks), the fact that meat was expensive and fast-food non-existent back then. I loved soups as a kid (esp “Sunday soup” which was a broth using duck/goose/chicken with veggies, noodles and liver meatballs). Fancy-for-me at that time was a local dish, which was done during Sept-Nov and we never made it at home, as it took ages to prepare- a feast including goose liver as entree, roasted goose stuffed with apples/pears, served with potato pancakes and more goose liver, finished with apple strudel cake. Belgian waffles felt pretty sophisticated and were a special treat for us back in early 90s.

   31. My mother moved here from India in the late 70s. She remembers Kentucky Fried Chicken being the closest thing she could find to Indian food because it was seasoned. The grocery store didn’t have the vegetables she wanted – just iceberg lettuce. She says she was confounded that people didn’t eat more vegetables.

   32. We had chain take-out/quasi take-out (Qdoba, Chipotle) at least 4x/wk. My parents didn’t really cook, homecooked food was sandwiches/spaghetti w Prego or the 1x/year Thanksgiving/Christmas/Easter meal. As a result I was overweight before college. I remember the novelty of discovering various vegetables and other foods in college. Kale! Swiss Chard! Lentils! These were all exciting novelties to me.

2. We all know that savings accounts and CD interest rates are awful right now. I’m lucky enough to have my bonus from this year sitting without a purpose (retirement maxed out, etc.). My car has $20k left on it at 4.5%. Worth it to pay off my car at that rate instead of throwing it into the market? I never know when it is better to pay things off or not.

   1. Because I’m always a split the baby and do both kind of girl, I’d use half of the remaining bonus on the car loan and put the other half an index fund. You get some of the psychic joy of paying down much of a loan, set yourself up if something in your finances were to change substantially and paying your car loan became challenging, but also get some of the higher returns in the market.

      Speaking of terrible short term rates, anyone have good ideas of where to park a down payment? I wasn’t in a position to buy early in the pandemic, and now housing stock is so low and prices are so high that I’m not sure now is the right time for me either…but I have this big pile of down payment just sitting there.

   2. I’d either pay it off or split it between paying down the loan and investing it in a brokerage account (might also be worth checking the terms of the loan first, to see if there are early payoff penalties and how they handle early payments without totally paying it off, just in case there’s anything weird there).

      For the other poster, I’m in the same place with the down payment, since there’s almost nothing on the market where we live and we’re not sure we really want to stay somewhere with such expensive housing. We have ~$200k in “cash” and $50k in a brokerage account (VTSAX). The “cash” was in a no penalty CD earning ~2% until recently, but rolled over and is now only getting 0.5%. It’s not great, but all of our retirement accounts are pretty aggressively invested (90% stocks), so we feel okay that we’re still making good returns on most of our assets while keeping a substantial safety net if we do decide to suddenly move or buy.

   3. I am using the T-mobile Money bank account which gives 1% interest…I don’t know why they are so far above others right now but can confirm it works.

      This is my financial ignorance coming through but is there something that is above the 1% interest I’m making right now and still a relatively safe investment? I thought the answer was bonds but as far as I can see, those are actually earning less than my high yield bank account (unless I’m reading it wrong).

      1. It’s suspicious. It’s … not an actual bank subject to banking laws and government insurance, right? The new mobile apps are iffy (about risk). Where exactly is your money being held? If it’s an app for an actual bank like Chase or something, sure. Otherwise, no. Just no.

         1. It is an actual bank account. It’s Customers bank branded for T-Mobile. Customers routing number on the checks/account.

      2. My credit union checking account is at 3% (fixed, that number hasn’t budged in the decade I’ve been with this credit union), up to $15k.

         1. Wow. What’s the CU?

         2. Wow. Mine is 2% up to $3,000 and I thought that was great.

   4. I would totally pay off the car but I’m debt-averse so…

      1. One way to analyze it is to ask yourself “would I borrow money at 4.5% to invest in the stock market?”

3. In case you need to hear this today, you’ve got this! I believe in you!

   1. I absolutely needed to hear this. Thank you!

   2. You’ve totally got this. You’re doing everything right.

   3. <3

   4. I did need to hear this! I’m so worn out and stressed I’ve shed tears three times this morning and it’s 8:27 where I am!

   5. Thanks! I already rage cried once this morning – I needed this.

4. Any prosecutors or criminal defense lawyers out there: what do you think of the human trafficking charges against John Geddert? Geddert was a gymnastics coach linked to the Larry Nasser scandal. As described in the news, he was charged with human trafficking for his abusive and coercive treatment of athletes during training and competitions, on the theory that he would profit from the prizes for team awards at competitions. Is this a novel or unusual application of child trafficking statutes? The gym parent internet is somewhat confused by the specific charges, as “human trafficking” brings to mind images of kids snatched from highway rest stops and sold into slavery. It seems as if the same conduct could have been prosecuted in other ways, e.g., as assault, battery, and/or child abuse. Some gym parents have commented that calling it trafficking could make parents and athletes even more hesitant to report abuse because they don’t think their own cases rise to that level. My guess is that there had to be some larger strategy behind the decision to charge it as trafficking, such as enhanced penalties or a way to bring in co-conspirators later. But I don’t practice criminal law so I don’t know.

   1. I think gym parents should not be trying to figure out ways to just impose less serious charges on adults abusing children. Frankly the fact that this is a concern is disturbing to me. He was charged because the prosecutor believes they have evidence that can prove that charge.

      1. It’s a bunch of nonlawyers trying to understand why lawyers labeled conduct in a way that’s not intuitive to the nonlawyers. Also a bunch of parents who are pretty cynical about the willingness and ability of both the sport’s own governing body and the criminal justice system to do anything about a huge problem that’s been going on for decades. To me, a gym parent who went to law school but does not practice criminal law, it’s an interesting question of legal strategy.

         1. It’s not a hard question though. Prosecutors as a matter of course tend to charge as much as they can as high as they can. Since nearly all cases end with a plea bargain, it’s a negotiating tactic.

            1. Yes, we all know what plea bargaining is. The question is specifically whether calling this type of child abuse “trafficking” is a routine charging practice or something out of the ordinary.

            2. I think you are getting your answer – its a common tactic to charge as high as possible, and this is an example of that.
               Sounds good, let them prosecute this case as strongly as they can.

         2. They can’t prosecute it — he killed himself almost within hours of being charged.

            And to confirm: it wasn’t just these charges, but some other very bad things, so even if this is technically over-charging, there were other things much easier to stick

   2. I have only handled one criminal case, but I will weigh in. Criminal statutes often have titles that do not match the colloquial meaning of a word. For example, when people refer to sodom* in ordinary conversation, they are referring to a specific act with a specific body part. The statute for sodom* in my statute does not require that the conduct involve that specific body part at all – a teacher abusing a minor student fulfills the elements in the statute regardless of body part.

      Also, most trafficking does not involve a dramatic kidnapping and slavery, just like most rap* cases do not involve a complete stranger dragging a woman into bushes.

   3. He had a bunch of typical charges also levies on him, so I’d not waste time wondering. It may be behind a paywall on the web but you can buy today’s WSJ which has a good article on it in the A section on just this.

      1. The WSJ article articulates what I found interesting about the charges. Gymnasts are typically treated as customers, and are being recast as workers. The WSJ article does make it sound as if this is a novel strategy. Based partly on how Michigan has handled some of the other cases, my guess is that the prosecutor was trying to go big and make a huge splash. I also think there was probably an expectation that it would go to trial instead of pleading out, based on Geddert’s reputation and his reaction to the whole scandal.

   4. Yesterday’s news coverage indicated that this is a novel charge under these circumstances and designed to send a message and discourage similar behavior in the future.

      1. Yes exactly. It’s all very clear.

5. I have about $50k left in student loans. I am a government borrower so planning to wait to make decisions until after the freeze on interest/payments ends. My interest rate is almost 8%. Part of me wants to refinance, and part of me wants to wait to see if student debt relief gets passed. Anyone else musing over this? I don’t think refinanced student debt would qualify but I’m not up to date on all the possible proposals.

   1. I think this depends on your income and ability to pay.

   2. While I’m not in favor of forgiveness of student loans whole hog, if I were you, I would wait and see what happens. Rates are not likely to jump back to 8% quickly after all of this, should it not get passed. But I think you’re correct that re-financing them could mean they would not qualify.

   3. You want to feds to be your lender, so don’t refinance just yet. Maybe set aside some money so you can pay down at 0%? If they announce $40k will be canceled at your income level, then you can use the funds you saved to pay some of the remaining $10k at 0% instead of 8%.

   4. If your loan is through the government, it’s in forbearance and not accruing interest right now, through I think September. I am hoping that some sort of forgiveness plan is announced prior to then. If there is no forgiveness plan in place that would cover my loans by the time forbearance ends, I’m refinancing (and my interest rate is currently lower than yours – but there are much lower rates out there.) I plan to use SoFi.

   5. I’m in the same boat. I stopped making monthly payments and instead have been putting that amount into a separate savings account. If student loan relief isn’t passed, or doesn’t fully wipe out my loans, I will make a large payment before the Dept of Education resumes charging interest. But I don’t want to hand the money over now, just in case some sort of debt relief does happen. I wouldn’t consider refinancing until payments/interest resume in October (or later, if 0% gets extended again).

      I wish the debate over debt relief were more nuanced. A lot of loud folks are pushing for $50k or all debt wiped out, which I think is unlikely to actually happen. The big problem for a lot of borrowers is high interest (my highest grad school loan is 7%!!!) – people sign up for income based repayments, but their payment doesn’t even cover the interest, so their debt snowballs. Permanently eliminating interest or even capping it a lower rate would be a huge relief to a lot of people as well.

   6. Speaking as a lobbyist, ain’t no way in he1! that $50k student debt relief that Schumer and Warren are pushing for is going anywhere. It’d have to go through Congress and there aren’t the votes for it – moderates are not on board. Could President Biden through exec order write off $10k? Probably yes. Will he do it? Remains to be seen. If he does it, will it come with income limitations? Yes. Will President Biden support $50k through Congress if they want to give it a go? Nope. He’s got other stuff to get done, namely infrastructure and climate change. The financial cost of that $50k forgiveness is HUGE, there are several studies floating around DC showing it doesn’t meaningfully help the broader economy (though it sure helps those individuals), and Biden’s not going to spend his limited political capital pushing through a pie-in-the-sky debt relief program that only benefits a segment of the population when the entire nation needs infrastructure and the whole world needs climate change. And, oh yeah, when this COVID bill gets done next week, we will have spent more on stimulus than we’ve ever spent. Even people who’ve never cared about the national debt are starting to talk about it. Adding to the deficit for the benefit of a few isn’t happening.

      1. If you had to make an educated guess about the income limits for $10k forgiveness, what would you guess?

      2. Student debt relief doesn’t solve the underlying problem, which is the fact that the easy availability of federally subsidized loans allows colleges to hike tuition to ridiculous levels. But politicians aren’t interested in fixing underlying problems, just whatever will get them votes in the next election. Hence the focus on forgiving existing loans instead of preventing future loans.

         1. Exactly! My undergrad spent millions on “student life services” and my freshman year was literally summer camp.

   7. I’m in the same boat (although I still owe 75k). I’m throwing as much money at my loans now while they are at 0% interest, and then I’ll reassess whether to refinance once the freeze ends. Since I’m in a higher income bracket, I don’t expect full forgiveness of my loans, but I would be ever so happy if even some of them were forgiven.

6. Anyone familiar with federal grants here? My friend was employed in a contract, grant-funded position with a state agency and just found out that her agency decided not to continue with the grant despite the fact that they have funding through August (with the possibility of renewal for two more years). Apparently a particular team within the agency doesn’t care for it or think it’s valuable and they decided to just stop it early. Now my friend and one other person are losing their jobs. Does that seem unusual to anyone? I’m not sure I’ve ever heard of an agency just deciding not to accept federal money and actually terminating people/funded positions before the grant period is even up (and I don’t believe there were any super-onerous requirements associated with the grant). Are there any consequences to doing so with the federal agency that gave the money? Would they decline to grant more money in the future or does it not matter?

   1. No matter what the answers to your questions are, your friend needs a new job. If ending the grant-funded activities early would preclude the state agency from receiving future grants, would that really persuade the state agency to reinstate your friend’s postion?

      1. Oh yeah, she’s out of there no matter what – this was just another (most egregious) event in a series of questionable events at work. It just seems so bizarre to both of us.

   2. I think it can depend on the federal agency. I ran Dept of Ed grants for years and you would definitely risk not getting another DOE grant if you ended a project early, especially if you haven’t achieved your objectives. I don’t know, but some part of the story must be missing.

      1. The missing part of the story could just be that the state agency had some turnover, and the new people in charge don’t have the institutional knowledge, so they aren’t aware that axing a running program could backfire. Or they don’t care because they are ok with crippling public service through incompetence. But one is supposed to assume good intentions, so I’ll assume ignorance.

         1. It could also be a case of shifting political priorities, especially if anyone could consider the program controversial in any way. There are still states that try to keep their drug court programs low-visibility, for example.

   3. Totally sounds like something my state would do. Frankly, it doesn’t sound weird and I think there are lots of reasons it could happen.

7. If anyone is in the market for loungewear, an acquaintance of mine just launched a sweatshirt + tee line, and I think her stuff is pretty cool: https://lovesickpat.com/

   Aesthetic is described as “sad b*tch chic meets early 2000s neon tackiness.” Sizes up to 5XL.

   1. Pretty cool designs but I loathe the busy-ness and flashing of the home page. Maybe it’s not loading well in Chrome but the web design is a huge turn-off for me.

   2. Wow! Not my aesthetic but I love the boldness! And LOVE the big size range!

   3. Cute, but I need another t-shirt or sweatshirt like I need a hole in my head.

8. Anyone want to help me shop for desk accessories?

   I am looking for a very small (2″x3″?) pretty box to hold paper clips. Kind of like the little paper clip box but not so flimsy, open top. Then a bigger one (4″x5″?) to hold binder clips, or 2 of those, one for each size. I would also love a pretty pencil cup to keep my lipstick, mascara, and eyeshadow and brow brushes (Zoom makeup!).

   I like florals like Liberty or Rifle Paper. Not solid color plastic, which was what I found the last time I looked for these. TIA for any ideas!

   1. I’m not sure about their current offerings but I’ve gotten pretty desk accessories from Kate Spade in the past. Anthropologie should have some too.

   2. Not exactly what you’re looking for, but etsy has some things:

      https://www.etsy.com/listing/625440147/red-floral-mason-jar-desk-set-decoupage?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=floral+desk+accessories&ref=sr_gallery-3-24&organic_search_click=1

      1. https://www.etsy.com/listing/816894426/water-color-floral-desk-accessories-cute?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=floral+desk+accessories&ref=sr_gallery-3-39&organic_search_click=1&sca=1

   3. Have you thought about looking at vintage floral sugar bowls and cups? I’ve found some awesome ones that double as storage, and sometimes there are other random lidded jars and cups of unusual sizes.

9. This is mostly a vent because I think I am stuck. Some friends who my husband and I want to be closer to invited us and our 2 kids (younger daughter is in the same class as their younger son) to their country house for a long weekend. We asked who else would be there and they said just us. We just arrived this morning and there is another family of four here. They have a suite/wing in the back of the house. The side of the house has 2 bedrooms next to each other that share a hallway bathroom. My husband and I are in one of those bedrooms. The other couple said there is another family of four coming tonight and the parents will be in the bedroom next to us! The kids will all be sleeping in the sun room near the front of the house. But my husband and I will be sharing the hallway bathroom with this other couple we don’t know for the weekend. I am really grossed out by this. Ugh I am just feeling so miserable. The hosts and everyone else are very excited to be here.

   1. I can’t quite tell what is making you miserable (COVID concerns, not liking to share a bathroom with strangers, feeling hurt that your hosts invited other people without telling you, all of the above), but at this point I think (unless you have COVID concerns) the only thing you can do is try to relax and enjoy yourselves. Worst case, your kids will have a blast and you have a change of scenery; best case, it’s an opportunity to get to know your friends better and maybe make some new friends.

      If your concerns are due to COVID (which would be reasonable, unless for some reason all the adults in the house are vaccinated?) then I think you could consider explaining to your hosts that you’re uncomfortable being in such close quarters and leave early, understanding that it may be friendship-ending.

   2. Then you leave. You are the boss of your own family. You’re not a helpless victim. Maybe that sounds harsh but this is the time for action not a vent and this is clearly irresponsible behavior on all guests’ and hosts’ part. You can do this – get in the car and go home.

   3. If you don’t feel safe, leave. But I don’t understand why you’re grossed out by the idea of breathing the same air as the additional family if the whole trip didn’t gross you out in the first place.

   4. I’ve been put in a similar situation a couple times. One time we were clearly promised a room and when we showed up they offered the living room couch to me and my husband. We just get a hotel room, but not sure that’s in your budget. I simply say kindly but firmly that I thought the situation was X instead of Y, and I’m happy to visit during the day. I don’t let anyone make me feel bad for ensuring my own comfort, and I don’t guilt trip them either or ruin the trip. We just adjust and roll with it. I know that’s tough to do in the moment because you feel annoyed and misled. But for friends I care about, it’s not worth it to blow up the situation.

   5. I would leave. Even without a pandemic, that is a LOT of people to share the same house for a weekend. A trip with two families and a trip with four families are very, very different. I have done the former many times over the years, and would never consider the latter for the sleep issues alone.

      Frankly, it is really rude that they didn’t tell you how many people would be there! I would end my efforts to become close friends with these people.

      I would say that I thought it would just be two families, and I am not comfortable sharing close quarters with so many people. Thank you so much for the invitation. Let’s have a playdate at the park next weekend, yada yada.

   6. I would like to be friends with people who have a country house this big.

   7. I would leave and get a hotel or go home. I’d personally rather just be at home than have to share a house with random people. I need privacy to enjoy a vacation and would use COVID as an excuse (and even better if your actual reason is COVID). I think you need to do it ASAP though because the COVID excuse wanes the longer you leave yourself exposed to these other people. It’s really weird that these people would lie about who’s coming, especially during this time.

      1. Maybe they didn’t lie? Maybe in between the time OP accepted and this weekend, they invited more people, not realizing that it mattered to the OP. It would still have been courteous to inform OP when plans were changed, but maybe they just didn’t think to. (If I ask “will anyone else be there?” it might just sound like a request for information, not that it’s a dealbreaker).

         1. There’s a pandemic. You have to tell people who they are spending time with, especially when they ask. Not thinking to update them is not acceptable

            1. She says below the Covid risk doesn’t bother her. More likely she wants specifically to get closer to this family (why, we don’t know) and is bummed that others will be taking up their time.

   8. What does your husband think of this – are you guys a united front on being disappointed and concerned, or is he more laid back about it? I’d consider leaving with your kids as it doesn’t meet your safety criteria, but giving your husband the option to stay (and get a ride back with any of the other families). If I were you, I’d be ticked! You asked and they lied!

   9. An important part of this pandemic is maintaining your own boundaries even when people try to breach them. You need to practice saying things like “hey, can you please back up a little bit so we can maintain 6 feet of distance?“ in your day-to-day life and then for things like this, you need to know how to say “hey, we’re actually not so comfortable with this many families being here. I think we are going to have to hit the road but I really hope we can do this another time once it’s safe for us.” These things don’t come naturally. You have to practice them.

      If you aren’t going to listen to your gut and go home, please at least quarantine when you do eventually get home to protect the rest of us.

   10. That’s so shitty. How could they not have mentioned such a large group, especially in the time of COVID. Pretty basic stuff. Such poor form.
       I hate stuff like this. Feeling like you’re going to rock the boat and be judged when in fact it’s their bad behavior. It’s almost like an assault on your sensibilities, your comfort zone, but you can’t necessarily call them out because they mean well (but really?!). No great advice, other than to try to let go of and own your decision and enjoy whichever decision it may be. Easier said than done!

       1. Putting aside COVID, I don’t under how this is “sh*tty”. This is their house. It’s not like they rented a place together, went halfsies and then they invited several other families. Pre-COVID we used to do this kind of thing all the time with friends who had a lake house. So long as the adults all had bedrooms, I was fine with whatever. Kids kind of slept where they fell. Shrug.

          1. It’s shitty because they lied about it and said no one else was coming.

             1. I guess I’m still not seeing it. I don’t think this is a “lie”, at least based on the information we were provided.

             2. I mean I guess refuse to see it all you want. If this is how you conduct yourself in life, just know this is how other people perceive it. OP asked who would be there, the host said just me and you, and now two other families are there. The hosts words do not line up with reality. Call it what you want.

             3. It’s definitely shitty if they invited OP’s family and said they were the only family coming, and didn’t update her when things changed. I am kind of shocked so many of you don’t get that, but please don’t be thoughtless hosts like this in the future. Not everyone feels that the more is actually the better.

             4. I agree that it is rude. Covid aside, I would be annoyed if the host specifically told me it was just going to be our family and the host’s family, and then I showed up and there were two other families there.

          2. Many people aren’t fine with whatever though. My husband and I make substantially more than many of our friends, so we are the ones inviting people to join us. I can’t imagine not telling people how many other families would be there! People have all kinds of issues that I may not know about.

          3. I get that, and at times wish I was that laid back! I still feel it’s poor form because the hosts should have been upfront about the situation. Common courtesy. It’s the considerate thing to do – to give your guests a sense of who might be there, what kind of situation it is – especially if the situation changes significantly. It’s not like they invited them to a big party and didn’t inform them of the guest list, because who cares, that’s the fun of it, that’s the societal norm. This weekend getaway is intimate enough to give them a heads up that multiple other people will be staying there as well. Particularly out of respect for any concerns about COVID.

          4. 1) More people = greater Covid risk
             2) This couple is a known quantity so they may be comfortable with the risk level this couple takes, versus not knowing what these other people are doing
             3) Lots of people are sensitive about unknown adults and older children around their kids (accidents by mean or careless older children or predatory adults who may assault their child).
             4) It’s simply rude not to inform. If you wouldn’t let your child sleep over the house of parents you never met, this is also unacceptable – kids won’t be in parents room at night.

          5. It just changes the nature of the invite. Casual hang of two families means you get to have some relaxed conversations, and you can negotiate meals and activities between the two parties. Also OP’s family knows the other family well enough to willingly spend a weekend in the country with.
             House party with four families can totally be fun, but you need to be prepared to go with the flow much more, since you are just one of four parties now. Everyone has different levels of flexibility with mealtimes, diet, appropriate activities. If you’re outgoing, easygoing and adaptable, spending a weekend with strangers can be exciting. If you’re not, spending a weekend with strangers can be torture. OP deserved to make that choice, not have it made for her.

             1. I think that’s the nature of being invited – the host sets the situation, in this case decided to invite more people, and unless OP said she wanted an intimate gathering, the host might not even realize she cared.

                Who knows? Maybe the host’s husband said he wanted more people (and maybe didn’t even want the intimate gathering), or had professional contacts he wanted to invite last minute.

             2. Anon @11:49 – then you tell the people before they show up excepting an intimate weekend! I don’t understand how this is a difficult concept. Do you invite a friend for drinks, just the two of you, and then show up with two of your co-workers in tow because you wanted to invite professional contacts? If so, stop. It’s annoying in that situation and it’s amply so in the case of a weekend trip. A heads’ up is appropriate in these situations.

             3. I think this is how rich people who collect an entourage work, though. They make plans and then run into some interesting person and decide to invite that person along, etc. etc. OP’s expectations of getting the hosts’ undivided attention seem unrealistic.

             4. Of course it’s the host’s house and they get to invite who they want. But in most cases, social hosting is aiming to make everyone comfortable and enjoy themselves. This isn’t a work engagement.
                And sure, the host probably didn’t even realize that this would be a problem. I am not saying evil host lured OP into a carefully planned trap of family fun, while cackling gleefully. But that doesn’t change the fact that OP feels blindsided, considering she asked specifically who else will be there and considering that multi household gatherings are discouraged.

   11. Why do you want to be closer to this family? Professional connections, kids? It makes a difference how you handle it. (Note – this is a pre-covid reaction. If you have covid concerns, apologize and leave).

   12. This sounds horrible. I understand the social pressure to stay. Leaving makes a big statement and the families that stay are going to be on the defensive and are likely to talk sh*t about you behind your back if you make that statement and leave. You’re now between the proverbial rock and a hard place — leave and reduce risk of infection vs stay and reduce risk of social harm. Meanwhile the whole situation would leave a bad taste in my mouth about everyone there and reduce my inclination to be better friends with these people in the future.

       You do have a choice and if you decide to leave can try to do so in a way that makes your hosts and the other guests the least defensive/offended as possible.

       1. I agree, I would avoid friendship with people who don’t care to inform me about Covid risks.

          1. I am guessing that the host family assumed that if OP’s family was willing to stay with them in the first place, OP’s family didn’t care about COVID risks.

          2. +1,000

   13. Ugh, I feel you. The sort of same thing happened to me last summer. We let our daughter go with a close friend and her family to their beach house for a week, because the kids were in each other’s bubble. We asked who was going to be there (“Just our family!” ), and what they were going to be doing re Covid safety (“just playing on the beach and cooking!”). Well, first night my kid calls and reports on how much fun she had hanging out with the other new family there, and going into shops in this beach town.
       I think it boils down to people’s very different ideas of what is safe, and stories they are willing to tell themselves about being Covid safe.

   14. OP here – thank you all for the thoughtful replies. I needed a reality check and do appreciate the constructive feedback. To clarify, the concerns were really all of the above, not just Covid. My husband is in the medical field and is fully vaccinated. I am in good health with no risk factors. The idea of being in this shared space with 4 families (and a shared bathroom with another couple) freaked me out initially but my husband pointed out that we see people in the stores, in close quarters at work etc all the time and I obviously use the public bathroom at work. I am going to make the best of it and try to go with the flow, which is not something I am good at obviously, lol! I guess I overreacted so it is good to get a sanity check.

       1. I’m wearing a mask in stores, at work, and in public bathrooms. I don’t do that when I’m sharing a home with people. Really not the same thing at all.

          Sorry you were put in this situation. Best of luck to you.

       2. What? Ok, you’re clearly going to do what you want despite it making no sense. Please isolate at home for two weeks when you get back. You owe the world that much.

       3. I’m not good at going with the flow either in situations where a bad decision was made for me. Is anyone else like this, where you find that once an adult lacks consideration, you see similar bad behaviors, everything about them bothers you? It’s like having bad houseguests that won’t leave, everything is highlighted. Probably a fault of mine to get so uptight but it’s like, who acts like this. Basic consideration. Situational awareness. Knowing how to act. Not hosting etiquette, differences in outlook and behavior. Obnoxious of me, perhaps, but I prefer not to have to stick up for myself around friends. A real black mark (or at least question mark, maybe they’re otherwise cool people, maybe just an honest oversight). Re: COVID, this is different than passing someone in a store…but I’m glad you came to a decision one way or the other and really hope you enjoy the time! You’re better at going with the flow than you give yourself credit for!

       4. Wtf? Seeing people in the grocery store is NOT the same as sharing closed quarters with people for a long weekend.

       5. What? What part of the medical field is he in because that is horrible advice!

          The factors that determine risk are time, space and place.

          Time – are you spending more than 15 minutes unmasked with someone?

          Space – are you less than 6 ft apart?

          Place – are you indoors or outdoors?

          – you’re a yes on all those factors. It’s a super high risk situation and I’d definitely leave.

   15. Just don’t go but say you or hubby has IBS and that should be good enough. No one needs to know any more since IBS requires you to stay either on or next to the toilet for hours on end, and unless the place has 8 toilets, that will be a problem for them, since they will need to poop.

   16. Why do you want to be friends with these people? They are sociopaths who have blithely put your health at risk and lied to get you to fall for it. They sound rich but trashy like so very very many other rich people with giant country homes who think their conduct doesn’t matter because they can afford it. Leave.

       1. Never mind. I didn’t realize you were just disappointed to be slumming it this weekend. Which Real Housewife are you staying with, BTW?? Can you tell us?!

          1. LOL I like you. If this were r/AITA, it’d definitely be an ESH.

   17. Leave. You aren’t stuck. “Kim and Steven, we asked who else would be here and you said just our two families. We are not comfortable being on vacation with 4 families in a pandemic, and frankly we are pretty upset you didn’t tell us about this. We are leaving.”

       Why be desperate to be friends with unsafe liars who don’t respect you?

       1. OP just said above they are comfortable with the Covid risk. Seems like besides not wanting to share a bathroom (understandable, but not everyone feels this way), the OP’s family wanted one on one time with this family, which isn’t going to happen. I’m curious why the OP wants to be closer to these people and is willing to stay despite the drawbacks.

          1. She just got her feelings hurt because her family is not as special to the hosts as they believed.

             1. Wow you are all over this post defending the hosts. Are you them?

             2. It’s not just one person posting this perspective. Not defending the hosts at all–I think the conduct of all parties here ranges from icky to reprehensible for various reasons.

   18. Your husband is in health care, and he’s ok with this? I assume you all are double masking and doing social distancing? Because if not I’d be really bummed if he was my doctor.

       He knows he should still be careful too.

10. What are your favorite healthy/low calorie take out or delivery meals? I’m trying to rebalance my calorie budget, but keep my Friday night take out tradition. I want something that feels like a treat but doesn’t derail my progress for the entire week. Thanks, all!

    1. Mexican, if you don’t have heavy cheese/sour cream/guac/refried beans. Burritos or tacos with grilled chicken or steak, veggies, and salsa, are pretty healthy.

    2. Sushi and poke bowls are very easy to keep healthy and light.

       1. +1

    3. I like the Eat This, Not that series of books and I think they have a website. It breaks down the best option from restaurants. A lot of places list calories on their menus, so you could pick based off that.

       I like to get entree salads, but you need to be mindful of the toppings. I keep the dressing on the side and find I use a lot less that way. Grilled fish with a side of veggies is usually a low cal option.

    4. Greek – kabobs and some beans or hummus.

    5. Greek or Middle Eastern. You’ll find a lot of healthy and plant-based options that are very flavorful.

    6. Split the entree with someone, if possible, and have some plain veggies on the side (steamed, baked, or salad without the fixins).

       1. +100! My local thai place has pretty big portions to begin with. Split the pad thai or curry in two portions and pair with steamed veggies or side salad. Indian works too.

       2. Portion sizes for almost all restaurant or takeout food is huge so my husband and I always split one meal and it works out well.

          1. Or we order two and save one for lunch the next day.

    7. If this is supposed to be your weekly treat, keep it that way! Get whatever you want, plus a side garden salad. Replate the food onto nice dishes with the entire salad and maybe ⅓ of the entree. In my experience, deprivation will get you nowhere (and you’ll have delicious leftovers!).

    8. This was my life in BigLaw ordering dinner for many years. Greek is my #1 go to, then sushi (or vegeterian sushi), then Indian and Thai dishes over steamed veggies instead of rice.

       1. Oh god yes. Aren’t there old articles on corporette about what to order for dinner at the office?

    9. My local bar has a great beet salad and you can add protein, so I often get that. I get ceviche from the Mexican place, too. It’s so good and high protein, low fat content. The trick for me otherwise is to sub in vegetables for any carby or high-calorie side dish.

       1. Ceviche would be the perfect food if only I didn’t NEED to have delicious crunchy tortilla chips with it…

          1. Corn tortilla chips are made with whole grains! Therefore, in our house they are a health food. Salsa and guacamole are also health foods.

             1. Of course! Why didn’t I think of that! ;)

          2. Yeah, it comes with tostadas. I either try to keep the ceviche:tostada ratio really high or warm up healthier corn tortillas I already have.

    10. I don’t count calories when we order takeout. I don’t know what’s taking place in someone else’s kitchen, even if the dish kind of sounds like something that should be light. We don’t eat takeout all that often, so when we do, we just get whatever sounds good and make it a guilt free meal.

    11. Sushi!

11. For nothing but the hive’s amusement, I present to you my dream from last night. I believe this is an indication I have hit pandemic fatigue . . .

    I was shopping in a very high-end department store or sorts, trying on all sorts of fancy designer suits, including formal shorts suits, boucle suits, lots of very LARGE shoulder pads, etc. It was Pretty Woman-esque, without the rudeness on behalf of the store smployees. I also went hog wild buying all of the Balenciaga purses in purple leather and was on a tear in the MAC store when one of the store employees came running up to me to to tell me that the fridge in my car (???) was on fire. That’s when my dream stopped.

    The very funny part of this is that I don’t buy leather products or MAC anymore because it’s not vegan or CF. My partner looked up the burning fridge part of the dream and this is what he found: Fridge on fire dream signals deceit, insight and intuition. Perhaps you need to restore some aspect of yourself. You are drawn to a flashy lifestyle which may not necessarily be who you really are. The dream signifies self-acceptance or your quick wit. You are trying to express your current feelings or convey your status.

    Seems on point! LOL

    1. I love hearing people’s ridiculous dreams. Last night I dreamed I was taking a shower in some elite college dormitory where I wasn’t authorized to be at all. I was thinking about how much trouble I might get into and I guess decided it was worth it.

       1. I am mostly having mask dreams lately, where it’s my usual stress dream of not being able to find the elevator or being close to missing my flight, but on top of that, I suddenly realize I haven’t been wearing a mask this whole time.

          1. Same! The “oh no, I forgot my mask” dream is the new naked dream, for me.

             1. The other night I was top-half naked hoping no one would notice (not likely, I’m a G cup) and I also was mask- less!

                Sometimes I’m bottom half naked.

       2. I have really weird dreams and a tradition of describing them with my best friends in the group chat, so I have an excellent record of my dreams over the last few months, including these gems:

          “I was dreaming about looking for a bag of potatoes in Target and accidentally wandering through the ‘I’m worried I might have COVID’ pharmacy waiting area”
          “I was dreaming that I was part of a huge group bartending for the Queen at a rager but there was a lot of confusion as to where all the bartenders would sleep”
          “I dreamed I was escaping the Little Mermaid shipwreck scene in a Bundt pan”

    2. I had a very specific dream on Friday night about how there was a leak from a project we were working on with a Big 4 consultancy. Suspicion turned on the newest member of their team, whose first project for them it was. I had to vouch for her integrity on the basis she had been my friend when I was bullied at primary school.

    3. Two nights ago, my husband dreamt he was playing baseball with frank sinatra and went to catch a ball and whacked me in the head. Woke me up in quite a fright.
       My dreams are usually really dark and not fun. Lots of murder and violence… whatever that says about my brain.

12. Thank you for the Happy Purim comment in the original post! For better or worse, all I ate yesterday were hamentashen, thanks to a fun virtual cooking class.

    1. +1!

       We let the kids stay up late for virtual services and hamantaschen. They did not return the favor by sleeping late.

       1. Lol! That sounds like a blast, though.

13. For the person who posted here this week about used cars being so expensive: https://apnews.com/article/prices-inflation-coronavirus-pandemic-united-states-c6f8a2a7cf916cbda0d5f112b1260997

    1. Fascinating! Because I remember reading articles at the beginning of the pandemic when everyone was in lockdown where they were predicting there would be a glut of used cars…from people not traveling, leased cars being returned, and rental companies unloading their fleet. Crazy times

14. Since this is anon — have you or will you do anything tricky to get the vaccine or will you patiently wait even if it takes into June? I don’t mean things that are allowed — like walking thru a pharmacy or taking an older person to an appointment and being offered one so you didn’t say no; or your category got called so you secured an appt ASAP even though you feel slightly bad because you know you’re work from home for another year.

    I mean things like— using a fake or old ID from another state because the line is more favorable to you in that state; going out of state to someplace you heard won’t check ID; getting a letter from your friend saying you work for her dental practice or daycare or whatever so you can be essential; using a code or link that you know wasn’t meant for you.

    If you haven’t done anything like that do you think you will? Are you waiting for seniors to get done but now feeling like hey if other young people jump ahead, why not me?

    1. Absolutely not. Integrity is doing the right thing whether others are looking or not.

       1. +1. I’ve been through a lot this year, but I know that I will be able to look back on my pandemic behavior in 20 years and be proud of myself. That makes it easier to get through the hard times because I know that I have been resilient and considerate of others and that it matters.

    2. Omg no. If any of you are doing this, please keep it to yourselves. If any of you are among the wealthy white crowd in Marin County that is stealing appointment codes from black people, it’s not OK and you should not get anonymous validation from here.

       1. Ugh, every time I think rich white people have done enough to black people, I hear another thing that takes it to a new low. I swear money makes people lose all integrity and ethics (they were probably already racist)

       2. I’m not one of those people and don’t even live there but the stories sound like there was a lot of bad information shared and those using the codes didn’t know they were stealing them from black people. In one instance, a pastor emailed a bunch of congregants about a pilot program and here’s the code to be in it. I don’t blame those people for believing their pastor. I don’t know if the pastor lied, if someone lied to the pastor, or if it was just a whole bunch of confusion.

          1. No, people definitely knew they weren’t eligible. The state had an age-based system only and it was pretty damn obvious they played the system on purpose. Even if someone “offers” you a code, you still know it’s wrong to use it if you have any ethics at all.

             1. The story I had read about the pastor was they were told the site was testing their processes on the healthier crowd before opening it to the elderly and infirm that can’t wait in line as long. They wanted to make sure things moved as swiftly as they planned. I’m usually a pretty skeptical person but if someone told me that, I’d believe them. But, that is a very small subset of the people that used those codes.

       3. exactly. I cheered when I read yesterday that the Bay Area bogie private practice that has been letting people jump the line, will no longer receive doses from the state.

          1. That is my practice. My primary care doctor was so awful (totally dismissive of any of my concerns) I needed to find a new one and One Medical was the only place I could find that was taking new patients. So now I’m totally screwed.

             1. When your group of the population becomes eligible, you will still be able to book a slot through a county vaccination site, it’s just that you won’t get it through their office.

       4. I saw that article and it sounded like the most Marin County thing I have ever heard. It makes me sad, but not surprised.

       5. I legitimately don’t understand what is happening with the black population here and how/why they’re being left behind. I don’t buy that it’s vaccine hesitancy as surveys show that 6 out of 10 black people say yes they want the vaccine. Yet I now know 3 people personally (well enough that we can discuss this) who’ve gone to be vaccinated. 2 went to the same state run mega site at 2 different days/times, and 1 went to a smaller health system run site where she didn’t see that many people but prob saw 15-20 others coming and going. 2 have said that it was all white people getting vaccinated; 1 said mostly white with 1-2 Asians. Yet these sites are in counties with 15-20% black populations and counties where median incomes are 80-85k and 90% of people have internet access (we looked this up). So these aren’t situations of – oh no POC live here of course they wouldn’t be at the site or the POC population is very poor and without computers so of course they can’t grab appointments. I’m unclear on why it’s playing out this way.

    3. No. I will 100% be trying to get vaccinated as quickly as possible but not through fraud.

    4. I wouldn’t do something sneaky or sketchy, even if it was guaranteed I wouldn’t get caught. I care about getting vaccinated in a relatively decent timeframe, but I guess I don’t care that badly. I was also not the person staying up until midnight trying to book grocery delivery – we just went to the store masked. Perhaps a relative lack of anxiety + laziness is driving my decisionmaking, but I also don’t like doing sketchy things.

    5. No. I generally try not to break the law and screw other people over to benefit myself.

    6. You mean lying, fraud, and highly unethical behavior? No, I think most of us draw the line quite close to that. There is quite a difference between your doctor friend calling you because he has extra doses and fake ids and straight up lying.

       If you don’t fall into the categories most states are vaccinating right now (over 200m Americans) you really and truly don’t need this vaccine early. Also, there is indication that shots will be widely available before June due to increased manufacturing for doses and lots of vaccine skeptics. Just wait.

       1. States are not actually vaccinating 200 million people right now. There aren’t enough doses. There is prioritization happening within “eligible” groups. For example, if you look at the national availability trackers you’d think that everyone in Virginia’s group 1b, which includes more than 50% of the adult population, is eligible for and has access to vaccination. In reality, local health districts are restricting eligibility to subcategories of group 1b and are prioritizing even within those subcategories. Our local health district started with ages 75+ in descending order of age. Now they are calling age 65+ with underlying health conditions.

          1. Is this some kind of justification for skipping the line? Shame on you if so.

             1. Not at all. But the idea that 200m people are currently being vaccinated is laughable.

             2. I think Anon@11:18 meant that she is not in the group of 200M people who will be prioritized for some criterion. They aren’t all being vaccinated right now as one group, but they are all being vaccinated (in some order) before her, so bottom line, she just has to wait until the whole group is through.

    7. I have repeatedly been offered a link that would permit me to book a vaccine for which I do not (yet) qualify. I have declined to use it, although I did use the link to help book qualified persons who were having difficulty getting the vaccine. I know so, so, so many people who do not qualify and would acknowledge that, but yet they have gotten the vaccine anyway. I am seeing true character, and it is not pretty.

       1. Same. I truly can’t look at some people the same way again.

          1. Yep, same. Lots of ugliness on display.

    8. Nope. And I hope you’re not either. I’m high risk and waiting my turn. Hearing about more and more people who pulled some strings or used an access code not meant for them makes me furious.

    9. No, definitely not. And I desperately want to be vaccinated and have life return to something more like normal. But I have managed to follow the rules and stay safe this long, I can manage another couple months without tossing out all integrity.

    10. Of course not. If it is June, so be it. Social distancing when the weather is warm isn’t even hard.

    11. My in-laws went to another state but there doesn’t appear to be any restrictions in the state they went to on out of state residents getting it. They also live close to the border and it was an hour from their house so arguably within their territory anyway. We thought they’d be turned away but they weren’t. I’m glad they got it and if the state did want to restrict it to residents only, they should have made that clear somewhere.

        1. What state?

        2. Honestly, this doesn’t bother me because they are almost certainly in the age category I am assuming. If you’re 70 and had to drive from SC to GA to get it, I feel like that’s not the unethical behavior OP is talking about. If you’re 30 and claiming to be 70 when you cross state lines, that’s different. I think we can all be frustrated that some states are more efficient than others at this.

           1. Super weird you chose that example because they are 65+ and drove from SC to GA. Weird!! My MIL ended up researching it (after we said “are you sure that’s allowed) and between when they got the first vaccine and the second, GA did announce residents only but it was showing up just on certain state sites and not others like pharmacies. Because they already had their first (and at that time had booked it legitimately) there was no problem with them getting the second.

    12. I am or was naive enough that I didn’t even realize access links could be used by others?! I booked my parents appointments in Jan (in a state that was scheduling seniors 3-6 weeks out at that point). It did not even occur to me then I could go into the link again and book one for myself (age 40). Only later did I learn it’s that people did when they were like oh my mom and I have appointments in the same week. This is at mega sites where they really don’t turn you away (of course friends didn’t know that at the time) – like if you got thru the competitive hurdle of booking, they’re not at the site going to say but hey you’re not 65 nor in any special category.

        1. That’s not how it works here! You don’t “make” an appointment–the health department assigns one to you. Take it or leave it, no choice over day, time, or location. You can give away your appointment to another eligible person, but you can’t make additional appointments or give your appointment to someone who is ineligible.

           1. Where I live, you can make an appointment at CVS or RiteAid.

              1. Supposedly you can make an appointment at the drugstore here too, but only if you are 65+ and only if you are incredibly lucky. The drugstore program is just for show and is not really vaccinating many people at all.

    13. Absolutely not. It’s not “tricky” it’s fraud. Take all the vaccines you are legitimately eligible for but don’t lie and cheat.

        1. Yep, this. It’s not a “trick” – it’s a crime.

    14. He11 no. I am low risk, live alone, WFH, and already had COVID (very mild) and will wait my turn.

    15. I haven’t and won’t. A family member encouraged me to go to a neighboring state because I fit the criteria there but not in my own state. That state does not check IDs and offers the vaccine to people from my state who work in theirs. I could make an appointment, drive an hour, and get the vaccine. Their governor has asked–implored–people from my state not to do that.

        I did encourage my MIL, who is 67 and has a blood disorder that puts her at high risk, to drive to another state to get the vaccine when our state was only offering to people over 70. At the time, that state was not restricting access to the vaccine and not discouraging people from traveling to get it.

    16. These answers are self selected. Yes. I live in a state where you can only go to your county and can’t compete for appointments anywhere under age 65; so if you’re under 65, all you can do is wait for the state to call your name. So yeah out of state — looking at places without ID requirements or loose requirements that can be fulfilled with an expired passport.

        1. Yikes. Most of us are waiting to be called and are at the back of the line. Thankfully most of us are also not selfish a-holes.

        2. So you’re under 65? Why do you think you shouldn’t have to wait until they call people under 65?

           1. Because I’m in a risk category that’s been called but in a state where under 65 high risk can’t do anything but wait for a call from the county. If I lived 10 miles across the state line, I could be competing for appointments. I’m not sitting and waiting.

    17. I won’t, but I have to anonymously say I’m having a very hard time not doing so. A close friend of mine who was the same weight/size as me pre-Covid gained 30 pounds due to drinking and constant takeout habits this past year and is excitedly texting me she’s now obese so qualifies for the vaccine. I helped her find an appointment slot (and I don’t think she did anything wrong by gaining weight or by taking what she legally qualifies for) but it honestly gets me really upset when I think about it. If I had to gain only 10 pounds instead of the 30 or so I’d need to, I would be seriously tempted to do it.

        1. This is really ugly

        2. Ah yes, let’s not forget to throw in more fat-shaming. Your friend is fat. It doesn’t matter why. She is as higher risk for complications and therefore should be prioritized.

           1. I’m fat too and don’t consider myself to be fat shaming her, but whatever.

              1. Give me a break. You’d need to gain 30 pounds to be considered obese by your own admission. Please don’t use this gross thread as an opportunity to trash your friend.

              2. She didn’t gain weight in order to get the vaccine. She was not gaming the system. And yes, you are fat shaming.

                 I’m also overweight but I don’t have a BMI over 40 so I’m not obese enough to qualify.

              3. Move to Virginia. Here a BMI over 25 will get you a shot as soon as they’re done with 65+.

                 If your priority categories are too broad, they’re meaningless. It becomes about what small groups of people are excluded (here, the small percentage of the population with a BMI under 25) rather than what genuinely at-risk groups are included.

              4. No, you were fat shaming. On it. Your friend should probably stop being friends with you because you don’t seem to respect her at all.

              5. Virginia also vaccinates smokers. Light up, everyone!

              6. You are 100% fat shaming her. It’s so disturbing you don’t see it.

    18. Absolutely not. I don’t commit fraud. I don’t elbow old people or teachers out of the way to get something they’re entitled to, but I’m not yet entitled to. How could I sleep at night if I did such a thing?

    19. No, and I live in a hot spot. Actually lying? No. Would I take a day off or spent a couple hours refreshing my browser to get an appointment? Sure. If an MD friend who had extra doses offered me a dose? Yeah, probably.

        1. Related: during the swine flu of 2009, my toddler was eligible for the vaccine but I was not eligible. The health clinic where she got her vaccine offered to give me the vaccine as well. I pointed out that I wasn’t technically eligible, but I agreed to the shot anyway. Kind of felt like crap at the time, but honestly, the clinic probably did have extra doses and it would have gone to waste otherwise.

           Honestly, I can’t wait for more vaccine availability so it can just be a straight age thing, which is easy to enforce.

           1. I also had a toddler during the swine flu epidemic. Based on my experience trying to get her two doses of the same vaccine back then, I am not optimistic about the current vaccination campaign. That was a simple flu vaccine and they were only vaccinating a relatively small number of young people and it was still a total charlie foxtrot.

              1. It was unfortunate that there were shortages, but seemed easy enough in my city (in CA, of all places) to get the vaccine if you were in an eligible group. They distributed all of it through public health centers, and I didn’t even have to make an appointment – just showed up at the health clinic on a distribution day. It would have been simpler to go to my pediatrician’s office, but by giving it only at health clinics, they were able to better limit access to the actually eligible as opposed to the concierge places giving it out to anyone willing to pay $$$$$.

    20. I am going to hustle with ever ounce of energy and focus I have the vaccine as soon as I’m eligible, and if I can get one earlier by driving further away from where I live, I’ll do that too, as long as it’s allowed. But I will absolutely not misrepresent anything about myself in order to get it. I don’t care if “everyone” is doing it or if the “rules don’t make sense.” We live in a society and societies have rules which we all need to live by in order for society to function. So, if my state allows BMI 25+ to get the vaccine and my BMI is 25.1, I’m getting the vaccine. If my BMI is 24.9, I’m not getting it. It’s that simple.

        Also, if morality isn’t enough to dissuade you from getting the vaccine improperly, consider this: your friends will know you got the vaccine before you were eligible and they will silently judge you for it.

        1. How? I’m not the type that’ll post a picture of my vax card of bandaid. Nor am I going on vacation and even if I did I wouldn’t tell anyone or post pictures. I just want to go to the grocery store without worry and more than once in a month.

15. Recipe recommendation:

    My husband and I made this last night
    https://www.bonappetit.com/recipe/turkey-meatballs-with-romesco-sauce?intcid=inline_amp

    It was easy and really good. It reminded me of bar food, but the kind you get at the bar of a really nice restaurant while you’re waiting for your table.

    I was not feeling like cooking so I talked my husband into helping – he made the sauce (which is cold, so he wasn’t crowding me at the stove) and I made the meatballs. It was so nice.

    (I don’t mean to sound like poor me, we have a 50/50 split on household stuff. Cooking is mine though)

    1. Oh man, I miss bar food. This looks great, thanks!

       I was telling my husband last night that I just want to belly up to a bar and dig my fingers into a nice big bowl of “bar trash” that everybody else has also been digging their fingers in. I guess those days are gone for good.

       1. I just love the little dishes they offer that are 1/2 size of the entree size in the restaurant, like meatballs in a sauce (hence this recipe), little fried things like artichoke hearts or green beans, house made potato chips, fries in a tall, paper-lined metal basket. God, I’m making myself so hungry.

          1. And tiny little burgers and tiny little tacos!!

             *sob*

16. I bought an RBG print that’s black on a cream-colored background and would love to frame it and put it in my home office. I was wondering what type of frame would look good? Woods vs metal and the color (gold, burgundy, black, or silver)? Link to follow.

    1. Here is the link to the print: https://www.instagram.com/p/CGD9f_eAB1w/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

    2. Mayte/brushed gold?

    3. I think a black textured matting like a faux suede and a cool metal frame. Maybe take to a framing place; those guys have tons of options and a better sense of scale for both frame size and matting size. That’s a very cool print!

17. About a month ago some of you recommended Ilona Andrews’ Innkeeper series, which I absolutely loved. I quickly read all the books and then started reading her Kate Daniels series, thinking it would be the same. I’m struggling to get into Kate Daniels – do they get better? Or does Andrews have another series out there that might be a better second series for someone who loved the Innkeeper world?

    1. I would read the Hidden Flames series next, the Kate Daniels series is a LOT more violent/nihilistic (and even she jokes about it on her blog how the fandoms for the different series are VERY different).

    2. The KD books get better. The very first book in the series was the first book they wrote ever, and they would prefer that they get an opportunity to rewrite it, but they know that can’t happen.

       I love the KD books, but if you are struggling with them, I find the Hidden Legacy series to be a better read. 2 trilogies, with a plan for a third.

    3. They wrote four edge books where one of them is centered around the necromancer guy and his shapeshifter brother from the book where they use the inn to make the hoard (heard?) and the vampires make peace over Nexus – If I recall correctly one of the brothers is called George. Might give you an in (hehe) to this series.
       I prefered the Kate Daniels to the Edge series until I somehow lost the will to continue. I think I still have two unread books in the series as I keep buying new ones, not realising that I gotten stuck. And everytime I reread the series I get stuck the same place…
       Think I have just inspired myself to go reread the Edge books now. They are more paranormal romance than urban fantasy to me somehow, but still worth reading and rereading.

       1. Yes, the Edge series! It’s only 4 books (On the Edge, Bayou Moon, Fate’s Edge, and Steel’s Edge), but I found it much better written and cohesive than the first ~5 KD books. George and Jack from the Innkeeper series are first introduced as kids/teenagers in the first Edge book, so there’s a bit of a crossover fun. The boys also show up in at least 2 of the other Edge books.

          Hidden Legacy is also fun, set in modern day magical Houston. It’s currently at 5 books and 1 novella, with one more book on the way for sure. First three books are from the perspective of the oldest sister, has a bit of a Kate/Curran vibe but with more *heat* so I didn’t love that couple dynamic, but the other 2 books and novella are from the perspective of the middle sister and her romantic interest is a bit more interesting (at least to me).

          And yes, the KD world gets better (I actually love Hugh and Andrea’s books waaaayyy more than Kate’s) eventually. The story line starts making more sense and they do manage to wrap Kate’s particular arc up in book 10 but… then Julie’s book just came out this Jan (set about 8-10 years after KD Book 10) and they need to be writing Elara’s book and… and… and.. I’ll spare you the fangirling speculation.

          1. and for OP – if you’re interested in more light-hearted urban fantasy, I also liked Lisa Shearin’s SPI files. Got introduced to Lisa Shearin since she had a story in the Night Shift anthology (Ilona Andrews, Nalini Singh, Lisa Shearin).

    4. I really loved Kate Daniels, especially after about the third book. But others have mentioned that they struggled to get into the series and chalked it up to it being the couple’s first. There are so many good series out there, I wouldn’t force yourself :)

    5. I also recently started reading her based on the rec here! I read all the Hidden Legacy books, then the Innkeeper series, now I’m a little over halfway through Kate Daniels. I definitely don’t like it as well as the other two (I think the first Hidden Legacy trilogy is my favorite), but I’m still plowing through. I’ll being doing the Edge ones next.

18. Can anyone recommend a sports bra that doesn’t make me feel like I’m being strangled? Also one that doesn’t create uni-boob? I’m DD so every bra creates cleavage, but I already get rashes under my breasts and I don’t want to start getting rashes between them too when I start exercising. I’m not going to be running (unless someone is chasing me) so no need for that kind of support. I’ll be walking and (machine) biking. I struggle with regular bras as well (usually don’t wear one all day when WFH because I hate them) so if anyone has any DD recommendations there, I’ll take that too. FWIW, I’ve been looking at Soma for both regular and sports.

    1. I love the two sports bras I got from Bravissimo. They make me look hot and they work for everything except yoga (too firm for twisting).

       1. And by look hot I mean that they lift and separate, which indeed also helps with sweat and rashes :)

    2. Panache Ultimate High simpatico Underwire sports bra is my go to for everything. Get the right size and it’s not like getting strangled, it holds everything in place and because of the underwire prevents uniboob.

       1. +1 to this brand – at least one of the Bravissimo bras I mentioned is Panache.

       2. I’m not sure if I’m looking at the right one, do you have a link?

          1. Sorry, autocorrect! Do read the sizing info. Also, while they are expensive, I found shopping around and not being choosy about colors has stocked my closet for roughly $45 a piece.

             https://www.barenecessities.com/product.aspx?pfid=Panache5021&cm_mmc=GLPA_NonBrand-_-Bra-_-Panache89-_-Panache5021&BillboardPopupEnabled=false&BorderfreeEnabled=False&color=Grey&amsk=w9a4hfr3k4&cmp=p1&gclid=CjwKCAiA1eKBBhBZEiwAX3gql-zmkeQvDN0WqpX7csuTTSyvVrJeatmX3fnYS_livB8ZJGn4E4HNOxoCKnkQAvD_BwE

             1. This is exactly the one I have, I’m a 30F. It’s perfect for treadmill, elliptical, and universal machines.

    3. I just ordered the AC Sports Bra from Title Nine and it seems promising, but I need to try a different size. It looks like it might meet your criteria.

    4. DD here too. This is my current favorite, but anything by this brand is good. (I discovered them years ago looking for a Panache knock-off ??) This particular bra is comfy enough that I’ve thought of ordering it just for hanging out around the house. https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B08FBWF6LQ/

    5. Natori has an underwire sports bra where the wire is on the outside of the cups – it is not an attractive bra and the cups are not padded, but it is very comfortable. I’ve also weirdly had good luck with VS. Their regular bras are not great but their sports bras are encasement styles rather than the strangling kind. I only started buying their bras because they were one of the few that used to make bras you could snap a heart rate monitor into, but I ended up liking them and buying more.

    6. I like the Nike women’s alpha sports bra. They come in small band but big cup sizes.
       I like the Maxine bra by fitfully yours (or hers, I forget). But I think they’re in uk sizes so you’ll probably be like a g or h, haha.
       Good luck!

    7. Wacoal underwire sports bra. I know this is sold at Nordstrom, but I am sure you can find it other places, as well. The bra comes in band and cup sizes. Order up one size in the band size, but order your usual cup size. I am usually a 32DDD and wear a 34DDD in this bra. It fits like a fairly serious, full coverage bra. I have worn this style for several years as my go to bra for all things athletic except water sports.

19. I have this dress and it looks awesome on me. Where can I wear it? Assume a world of no COVID.

    https://www.nordstrom.com/s/lilly-pulitzer-anissa-maxi-dress/5137590

    1. Sunset drinks in Naples.
       A bridal or baby shower in the South.
       Dinners out in the Caribbean – protect against the slight chill of the Christmas Winds and all.
       A night your kids are in the Kids Club on a Disney Cruise (um… based on friends’ Insta stories).

    2. To dinner on a cruise.

    3. Getting off the plane on the day your horrible husband leaves the presidency of the United States.

       1. Loved this comment, but I think this dress is much more flattering than the designer muumuu evoked by your thought.

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