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Laundry/fabric question
A couple months ago I bought this – http://www.loft.com/petite-bow-neck-blouse/364476?colorExplode=false&skuId=18024814&catid=cat640050&productPageType=fullPriceProducts&defaultColor=3197. It’s not the exact one, but the style looks the same and the fabric is also polyester, it’s just a different color. After the second wash/dry cycle (per care instructions) I noticed there are little speckles in a few places on the front of the blouse and the tie. It looks similar to when water would splash on the blouse, but it’s fully dry.
I’m guessing that since it’s gone through the dryer, I’m just going to have to deal with it, but does anyone know what might have caused the splotchiness? I don’t wear perfume or lotion. When I pulled it out of the washing machine, I noticed some discoloration in the armpits that I attributed to my deodorant, but it was gone after drying. Thoughts? I really love this shirt and would buy more in different colors, but not if they’re going to turn out like this.
TNTT
This happened to me once and my not-very-scientific mind decided that it was detergent that hadn’t washed out all the way. I soaked the shirt all the way through with water and hung to dry, and they were gone. YMMV obviously, as I actually have no idea what was on my shirt or why this worked, but worth a shot?
Parker
I’d also try washing again and hang-drying. These fabrics are prone to water stain – maybe something just splashed on it when you were taking it out of the dryer?
tesyaa
If it’s 100% polyester, there’s a decent chance the stain will wash out. Treat with stain stick or a similar pretreater, soak in hot water for a few hours, then launder as usual. It sounds like some kind of oily material – I would definitely give it another try.
winteranon
Sounds like grease splatters. Fulsol concentrate cleaner from Fuller Brush Company (can buy on Amazon) is great for removing grease stains even after they’ve been through the dryer. I’m sure there are other degreasers out there that would work, but that’s my go to (mom of boys here).
AR
It just looks like the shirt is wet and it happened in the wash? My guess is it is a grease stain. I HATE these — I usually put dish soap on the spots then after letting it sit a bit, I pour a kettle of boiling water over the stains, then wash. Works like a dream.
houston, we have a problem
fabric softner will do this on some fabrics
Gail the Goldfish
Grease stains? This has happened to me when BF accidentally left a chapstick in one of his pockets and it got a little melty in the dryer.
lsw
I’m so glad for this thread. This just happened to me on a few tops. I think something must have been in a pocket or in the washer. I am going to try all these recommendations and hopefully salvage my two favorite blouses…
Laundry/fabric question
Thanks all! I’ll give these suggestions a whirl and report back.
MJ
This can also happen with non-biologic detergents on certain fabrics. Like if you are using super-green detergent. I have not found a remedy, ever. Stick to the non-green name brands and this is unlikely to happen in the future.
Anon
Chiming in late to say that I had this issue with one a deodorant–after a month on my shelf, the product seemed to separate, and some oil from the product would pool in the bottom of the stick and leak from the twisting area. The oil then brushed off on my shirt when I ducked the stick under. I discovered the issue when grease-like stains started popping up on the front of a number of my shirts, like you describe. I second the washing suggestions above, but if you’re looking for the cause, that might be it.
CountC
I love this blazer.
Anon NC
What would you wear underneath it? My default is a white microfiber shell or an LBH shirt.
CountC
Probably a tank that matches the cream/white. Something very simple.
la vie en bleu
I’m picturing a nice-quality round neck tshirt (not crew neck) in a solid color, non-pastel. Maybe teal or purple.
Parfait
What is an LBH shirt? I am drawing a blank. A food-related place I hang out online uses that acronym for “Lazy But Hungry,” but I’m pretty sure that is not it. Little Black Henley? Loose, Badly Hemmed?
Alanna of Trebond
Let’s Be Honest. (joking).
CHJ
Any recommendations for a modern/artistic florist that will deliver to Long Island? I’m thinking of something equivalent to Winston Flowers in Boston. Any ideas? Thanks!
AIMS
No idea if they will deliver, but I have used Sterling Fell Florist with great results. I think they fit what you’re looking for. http://www.sterlingfell.com/
Sparrow
Yesterday I dug out my old Jillian Michael’s 30 Day Shred DVD and this morning I could barely get out bed. And that was just Level 1. For anyone that’s used this program before, do you work out every day? I really want to do my best to keep up this time because in the past I’ve always tried and failed after a couple of weeks. However, I’m so sore I’m not sure if I can effectively keep up with the workout today. And I’ve heard stuff before about letting muscle groups rest a day between exercises, so not sure if I should take that into consideration. Also, when did you decide to go to the next level? Was it when you could completely finish a workout without stopping?
anon
I can’t remember what the exercises were for Level 1, but could you modify the exercises so that you aren’t SO sore that you can’t function the next day as you increase your fitness level, i.e. do 1 squat for every 2 squats Jillian does or push ups with knees down? Drop/decrease the weights? I moved on from the first video in 1-2 weeks, but I was exercising regularly prior to starting the video series.
Sparrow
Thanks for the suggestion! There are two other people in the video and one is doing a less intense version of the movement, so I’ll probably follow that. I have never regularly exercised in my life, so that’s probably why I’m in such bad shape. I’m hoping once I keep going, it’ll get a bit easier.
anon
Stretch after. If you don’t feel like you can do the video everyday, try to do some fast walking or yoga video in between video days. It will really help loosen up the muscles, even though it sounds like the last thing you want to do. And it will keep you active. It will definitely get easier!!! Good luck.
Anonymous
+1 to going for a walk. I run halfs and always feel better faster if I kept moving the day of and go for a good walk the next day than if I collapse on the couch and nurse my soreness (which is what I want to do!). And agree with all of the other comments to do the modified versions so you aren’t as sore starting out. It’s hard for type-A personalities to do but it really will help you stay with it and get into a regular routine faster.
TO Lawyer
Definitely do the less strenuous version of the exercises. And the 30 day shred is hard! Good for you for starting it! If I were you, I would aim to do the video every other day, and get some cardio in on the off days – a 30 min walk would probably be perfect. As you get more into it, you’ll start to find it a lot easier.
Batgirl
I remember feeling like I had my behind handed to me when I first did that video! I would try doing the exercises without any weights and see if that helps!
Meg Murry
Can you commit to doing exercise every day, but alternate between that DVD and another workout – maybe one that is more along the lines of stretching, yoga or pilates instead of cardio and weights?
It’s probably better to pace yourself and get into the habit of working out daily rather than bust your butt for a few days and then quit. Even if I can’t keep up with a workout, I always remind myself that moving for 20-30 minutes is better than nothing, even if it isn’t at full intensity.
Also, ibuprofen before bed for the first couple of days will help a lot.
Anon
I felt like that after the first day as well. I tried my best to keep doing them and would try to do 5 days in a row, then rest (usually go for a brisk walk that day and do a pilates video more for the stretching) then do 5 more days in a row. Then I would move to the next level. It will get easier after a while.
espresso bean
It gets easier! The first day is always the hardest, especially if you haven’t been working out regularly. Even if you do them regularly, though, I would never say that they get easy. Squats, pushups, and power jumps are always intense and challenging. But you will get to a point where you’re not as sore the next day.
Definitely follow the woman who does the modified movements. That helps a lot. You can also skip the weights until you get used to it. Then add them once you feel like you can handle it.
Zelda
I’ve done the 30 day shred multiple times. I try to do it every day, but sometimes life gets in the way. Definitely follow the easier “best girl” if you haven’t exercised regularly. Also, feel free to take a brief break (a few seconds) if you honestly feel like you can’t finish an exercise. If it’s a cardio section, I’ll do jumping jacks or something similar that keeps me moving even if it’s not at the same intensity as the exercises on screen. I always tell myself that doing a modified version of the video is still better than sitting on the couch! I also have two sizes of weights that I alternate between depending on the muscles that I’m working and how sore I feel.
Try to add extra stretches at the end or something like yoga or pilates, either after the workout or on a rest day (as Anon mentioned) to help with the soreness. I sometimes take a yoga for athletes class that’s great for stretching out sore muscles.
2 Cents
I used to press pause when I needed a breather because that video goes so quickly, especially when you’re getting back in the swing of things.
kc
I do it every other day, if I’m doing it consistently (been doing the video on/off for about 3 years now). I don’t think you are supposed to lift weights every day since your muscles need rest days to actually repair themselves. And yes, i feel super sore everytime I have to start up again after a break. I alternate 30 day shred with spin/pilates class and taking long walks.
TJ - setting boundaries
How do you set boundaries with family during trying emotional times? I found out recently that a relative has cancer and her family (and I) are pretty upset about it. Setting aside those emotions for now, I’m concerned that we are going to have boundary issues in the months ahead. My relative’s family is close-knit and very supportive, but they also have a tendency to ignore the boundaries of those outside their circle. In this case, they’re upset with me because at the last minute, they wanted me to pick up a family member at the airport at midnight, but I had just worked a 60-hour week and was too exhausted (the family member had other options she could have pursued). I offered several alternatives, such as meeting first thing in the morning or in a few days, and even ultimately agreed to do the pick-up (which they then rejected). Now I’ve hearing that everyone is “upset” with me and can’t believe that I wouldn’t be there for them at this emotional time. I’m not sure how to handle this situation or how I should handle similar ones going forward. How can I say no in cases where I need to say no without being accused of “not being there?” I’ve been communicating with the family constantly since the diagnosis and trying to be there in every way I can, but one refusal to do something has soured relations. Does anyone have any tips? Should I have just done the pick-up, no questions asked? TIA!
TJ - setting boundaries
Also, just for context, I’m married and work full-time. I sometimes think my relatives don’t recognize that I’m not just a college student up for anything at anytime anymore…
Parker
I get that problem quite frequently. I’ve learned to live with the fact that sometimes family is just going to be upset and I accept that I make choices that contribute to that – even if I don’t think its fair that they are. But sometimes I decide my sanity is worth it.
That said, and without knowing more about who the family member was in relation to you:
a) if it’s really last minute, you can say you would love to but you’ve had a few drinks
b) you could say that you’re very exhausted / borderline sick but that you’ll offer to pay for a cab (attaching $$ toi this sometimes makes people see that they are asking for a quite a bit) and how serious you are about needing your space
Carrie...
I’d let this go.
I know you’re busy, but when family members are struggling with Cancer, and you are asking how to set “boundaries”… it sounds a bit harsh. Maybe you come off a little bit harder than you intend. Forgive me if I am over reading.
I don’t know your family, how close you are, or the severity of this diagnosis. But I’d give them a break. They are probably more exhausted, mentally, than you… despite your work schedule. Just say no when you can’t do something, and continue to support as you can. Sometimes there will be tension, but you must realize how upset they are. Just continue to be as supportive as you can be, and your supportive actions overall will still speak loudly.
And sometimes – you pick up a family member at midnight.
roses
Strongly disagree. There are some families/relationships where you’ll give an inch and they’ll take a mile. OP sounds sympathetic but she shouldn’t let her family drain her to deal with this, particularly given that cancer can be a long, ongoing struggle.
OP, I think you need to do a better job of framing your refusals not just as you being too tired, etc., to do something, but about how your involvement won’t actually help the situation. Say “I don’t think I can safely drive because I’m exhausted and might fall asleep at the wheel” and help arrange alternatives. Or in other situations where your presence is urgently requested, “I really don’t feel like I can be around others right now, I need to work through this on my own or I’m going to really be a pain to be around.”
Good luck and my sympathies for your relative.
Carrie...
I suppose so. But she didn’t say this was the case. This also may be pretty serious situation. But we do not know the details of the illness or the family.
We each speak from our own experience. I can only give my own impression from when my family has been ill with cancer, and from caring for many patients with cancer.
SoCalAtty
Agree with roses. I used to always be the “drop everything and take care of it” person in both my and my husband’s family. After my FIL had a bad accident while we were in San Diego, I left my conference early, drove husband to the San Diego airport (he was down there with me) and put him on a plane. Then I drove to Anaheim, picked up my SIL and put her on a plane. Then I drove home to the San Fernando Valley, packed for me + husband, and drove the last 7 hours to get to them up in Nor Cal. All told, I was driving for about 12 hours and I was exhausted. Not that this is the same thing as picking up a family member at midnight, but I think my point is – my in-laws expected this, and if I had said “no” and just put husband on the plane and taken my time to sort the rest out, they would have been very offended. But what I did was dangerous!
In hindsight, it would have just been better for me to arrange for and pay for cabs for everyone, have spent the night at home, and to have either caught a plane or driven up the next day. If you frame the “boundary” in terms of safety, and then help take care of the arrangements, I don’t think anyone can fault you.
cheddarcheese
I understand that it sounds harsh to set boundaries but it can be essential. I lost a member of my immediate family to cancer and it was brutal on me. I would wake up feeling hung-over in the mornings because of the emotional strain, and I was single with no real responsibilities outside of work. I think someone said it on thissite: you have to put your own oxygen mask on before assisting others.
Monday
I know this is difficult and touchy, but I think the next time something like this comes up, you should probably bite your tongue and say yes. As an alternative, you could say you will arrange everything, and then do 100% of the work (and payment) to make sure the person gets their ride. Please hear me out.
The people who are closest to the cancer patient are also working 60+ hour weeks right now, regardless of their formal employment situation. Caregiving, dealing with doctors, going to treatments and tests, and managing both their own and the patient’s fear and pain are more than a full-time job. They are probably getting very little sleep and basically zero down time or time to have fun/relax/exercise/take care of themselves. The greatest gift they can get is to ask for help and then be done with it, no conversation ensuing. They don’t have the energy or patience in reserve to be reasonable or compassionate right now and think about things like boundaries. I know this is rough, but it’s part of what often happens in the immediate family with terminal illness. The relative also probably wanted to see a familiar face and get a hug when she got into town, honestly, and not deal with a cab driver. I’m not saying any of this is fair or that you’re wrong, just suggesting how I tend to think about it since going through my Dad’s sickness and death from cancer and dealing with similar situations. I’m sorry and hang in there.
Carrie...
Yes.
Most families struggling with serious disease and caregiving do not get the support they need.
Unfortunately, people do not tend to understand until they go through it themselves.
Anon
500% agree.
Diana Barry
+100, agreed.
TJ - setting boundaries
I tend to agree with the initial responses – part of my worry over this is that I think I probably should have just said yes from the get-go and overrode my own exhaustion. The problem, though, is that I DID ultimately say yes and agree to do the pick-up, but since I didn’t say it right away, the family was hurt and upset and ultimately said they’d “figure something else out.” I’m conflicted about how to move forward from that, and I’m worried that when more and more requests come in over the months (I know they’re going to ask for this family member to come sleep on my couch multiple times), I’m going to have to always say yes, regardless of anything going on with me, unless I want to start a family conflict. I WANT to be there as much as I can, but I can’t be there 100% of the time…
B
I’m hoping you’ll get some more good responses from some folks who’ve been in a caregiver position. So far, I think that all the above answers are partially right. First: there are ALWAYS boundary issues in being a caregiver, even if you’re caring for your parents or siblings. So I think you’re asking a valid question. Also, I’m not clear how close of a relative this is; it sounds like you’re not super close to that side of the family, since they feel like a different group to you. I think it’s OK to have a different level of response for a close relative vs a distant one.
That being said, since you do care about this person, some level of sacrifice is probably appropriate. So maybe sometimes you do airport pickups or host a guest even when you’re tired / inconvenienced / have other plans. But other times, I can see where you’d have to draw the line. Especially with pushy relatives (I do have experience with those, and they will SUCK YOU DRY -e.g. calling at 3 am for a pickup 3 hours away). I’m not personally sure where that line is for you. If you don’t get the answers you need here, you might google “caregiver”… stress? boundaries? codependency? to find the support you need.
Hugs and sympathy, for you and your whole fam…
Monday
My thought would be to tell the relatives, directly, that you’ve had time to rethink the ride incident and wish you’d said yes from the beginning. You’re sorry you hesitated and for the hurt feelings that came from that. You say that you truly want to do everything you can, and (to yourself) you commit to say yes to, let’s say, 90% of their requests going forward. She will sleep on your couch multiple times.
Again, I know this may sound rough, and I speak as someone who is not very generous or giving as part of my nature. I learned this perspective the hardest way possible, and I definitely got accused of not caring enough at times. I will make this mistake again too in the future, I know. But this is my aspiration and my advice.
TJ - setting boundaries
I actually did call the specific relative who would have been picked up and we talked it out. I made it clear that we had some miscommunication, but that I always want to be there for her, that I wish I had phrased it differently from the start, etc. She seems to be fine with the situation, but the rest of the family is still pissed and not talking to me. I’m close to them, but they are closer with each other – they tend to be closer to me when they need something. It has caused issues at various times over the years, but in general, we are fairly tight-knit.
NYNY
I’m reading this as your aunt (or uncle) is sick, and your cousins are asking your help because you are in the same city where your aunt/their mother is being treated. So the siblings are kind of close with you, but really close to each other.
You need to stop worrying about the drama. You apologized to the person directly involved, and she’s okay. If other family members want to hang onto it, there’s nothing you can do but ride it out. People get a little crazy when someone they love is sick, and maybe being upset with you is easier than being afraid their mother may die.
Going forward, be there for people as much as you can, but know that you will probably need to assert yourself several more times before the crisis is over. Can I stay on your couch? Yes. Can you pick me up at the airport? Yes. Can you drive me to the hospital? No, sorry, I have to go to work. This is the number for a cab company.
Anon2
..deleted…I can’t articulate my point well, so I won’t.
Ciao, pues
I second the direct apology route, if you haven’t already done so. It costs you nothing to apologize and will probably go a long way for a family experiencing crisis.
I have a really big family with easily hurt feelings. I’ve had the rumor-mill spinning about my “selfish” actions before, albeit not in this same situation. I tried to realize that the person speaking ill of me was doing so as a result of hurt feelings, not actual malice. I apologized directly to her which I think she was not expecting (my family’s m.o. is to bury bury bury your feelings…) and it was really disarming.
You’re in a tough spot, OP. I’m so sorry for what you’re going through. I struggle with setting boundaries in these types of situations, too, because with a big, close, sensitive family I’ve found an inch given is a mile taken. I want to be there for them, but it does no one any good for me to spread myself very thin and end up resenting it. Cancer is often a long game, so you’ve got lots of opportunities to make up for it if you feel you took a misstep. Hugs.
Meg Murry
Since you know it is coming, can you do some advance prep work to avoid the situation? For instance, find the number for a car service for airport pickups, look to see if there is a deal on Air BnB for a room, or call the cancer treatment center and ask if there is a local hotel they recommend family members stay at?
Why does family want to crash on your couch? Are you closest to the airport or hospital? Could you put out feelers to the rest of the family pre-emptively to see if someone else wants to volunteer to host the couch surfer? Do you have airline or hotel rewards points you could donate to the family member to help them stay somewhere else or get a better rate on their flights?
Blonde Lawyer
I suspect there could be a class or culture issue here. My extended family is lower middle class and some of them are flat out poor. There is no “getting a hotel.” Even the cost of a taxi after a flight could be cost prohibitive. That is something very hard to understand for someone who has the means for what they consider basic necessities like a hotel/taxi. Culturally, it took a long time to convince my dad to “let me” take the airport shuttle when I flew to his town. He felt it was his duty to pick me up at the airport. If you combine those two things, it feels like a much bigger slight when someone declines a couch or a ride. It is the difference between visiting the sick family member and not being able to.
If I’m right, I would be leery of offering monetary solutions to the problem That opens the door to them thinking you will finance other emergencies and that is a door you do not want to open. For me, sacrificing my couch would be a lot safer.
However, I also recognize that some family members are toxic. There is an aunt and a cousin from whom I do not accept calls and I would not be offering any type of help at all. Too many bridges burned and I’m not going to open myself up to further hurt no matter the circumstances. If that is OP’s case, she shouldn’t feel guilty.
Meg Murry
Yes, I wondered if there was some class, culture or travel experience level issues here. For instance, my in-laws aren’t great at travel, and are pretty helpless sometimes. The idea of getting a cab or airport shuttle would freak them out. Or when I was a college student, I wouldn’t have had $40 in my pocket for a cab, and I wouldn’t have minded sleeping on someone’s couch – and I probably wouldn’t have realized how much of an inconvenience I was to the couch owner.
But the asks are only going to go up from here. So offer what you can, and try to smooth over what you can’t – even if that means paying for it yourself.
TJ - setting boundaries
Nope, they’re well-off – not a money issue in this case. I would offer to pay, but it’d be almost comical.
Must be Tuesday
Part of setting boundaries is saying what you mean and sticking to it. If you really aren’t up to something, say no, and don’t backtrack. If you say no and then change to yes, you’ve just shown that if they push you hard enough, you’ll do what they ask. If you can’t do it, say no, and don’t back down. If you just don’t want to do something, but you think you can manage and you’re willing to do so in order to help them through a tough time, say yes the first time, and follow through. If you need time to figure out whether you can do something, tell them you’ll need to figure out if you can handle that and you’ll contact them in x way and y time to let them know.
No matter what, you can’t control whether they get mad at you. Set your boundaries, don’t give in when pushed, and accept that they might get mad at you about something, even if you’re being completely reasonable.
Yes, the caring this is to try to suck it up and do what they need. But, some people just aren’t considerate and reasonable under the best of circumstance, and if your relatives are like that to begin with, dealing with a difficult situation is only going to make them that much more inconsiderate and unreasonable. You don’t have to give in to inconsiderate and unreasonable demands just because someone is going through a tough time. You also don’t have to give in just because someone might get mad at you if you don’t agree to do what they want.
Veronica Mars
I’m so sorry you’re going through this.Try focusing on not getting upset that they’re “upset” with you. Emotions are understandably going to be heightened during this difficult time, so try to cut them (and yourself!) some slack. Try to stay above and out of the family drama whirlpool for as long as possible. If you’re calm, collected and don’t fall for the guilt trips, you’ll definitely be in a much more emotionally healthy situation. I know that’s easier said than done, but I hope that helps!
Anonforthis
I think most commentators are being unfair. It doesn’t sound like OP is part of the immediate family and I think that means expectations are different. I’v had my mother die of a long drawn out illness and now my father has cancer. I know what its like to be exhausted. I’ve spent the last month doing 50-60 hour weeks at work and dealing with treatment and hospital stays after that, so I know what this type of exhaustion feels like. It is basically just me and my dad and I wouldn’t dream of asking a non-immediate family member to go out of their way on no notice unless it was an emergency and there was simply no alternative.
Its great if you are able to offer to help with something but if you can’t you can’t. Its much better you are upfront about that rather than make promises you can’t keep. And save the times for going out of your way for when they really need it, because those times will definitely come and you will want to be there for them then.
anonymama
I would absolutely expect to, and be glad to, help if a non-immediate family member was ill. My extended family is large but pretty close, and the silver lining of everyone always being all up in your business is that you can count on them to be there if you need something. When a close family member was ill, the extended family absolutely was there helping out when they could.
Honestly, it sounds like the op has been offering the standard platitudes of “let me know if I can help”, but didn’t want to actually help when it was something that needed to be done, but was kind of a sucky thing to do. I think it probably made it worse that she refused first, and then walked it back… that made it really seem like she could have done it, but just didn’t really want to. I mean, it sounds like she has been communicating but hasn’t really actually done anything yet. So, as far as boundaries, help out when you can. If you really can’t, say you can’t. If you really don’t want to, then don’t give vague offers to help, and accept that your relationship with your relatives is going to be more distant and/or contentious.
Idea
I am so confused here. Wouldn’t your relative and your family overlap, or at least, have the same family? I mean, it’s all relative, but who is the closest person to the 1 that’s sick? The sick person and his/her advocate get to set the boundaries, tone, rules for engagement. Period.
TJ - setting boundaries
Well, I just got yelled at by one of the family members and told “not to make myself the victim” for saying that I was upset about this weekend (after she brought it up). I guess these months are going to be even worse than I thought. Ugh.
Meg Murry
This weekend is the past. The more either of you bring it up, the madder everyone will get.
Just think about what you can do going forward. Offer what you CAN do, and make suggestions for other solutions for what you can’t. And remember that whatever you are going through, it is worse for them.
And don’t use the phrases “I’m hear for you” or “let me know what you need”. Because it sounds like what they need is more than you can give.
L
I don’t mean to be a jerk here, but seriously let it go. You’re making yourself the victim here and you’re not. You let yourself get browbeat into doing something you didn’t want to do. You’re an adult, you make choices.
Is it right family is yelling at you? No. But you don’t need to have a discussion about “setting boundaries” just set them. If you can do something, do it. If you can’t, don’t.
Anon2
Yes. All day long. Yes.
Anonymous
It sounds like you are trying to make yourself the victim though? Everyone gave you the advice of “go the direct apology route.” It sounds like instead you went ahead with a “this is why IM upset” route.
rosie
I think that when someone is in crisis mode, you have to understand that making sure you don’t get your feelings hurt is not their priority and toughen up. I don’t think we have all the details here, which is fine, but from what you have described: they asked you for a ride, you said no, they were disappointed, you felt guilted into doing it and eventually said yes, and you are upset that it’s not all water under the bridge now. They’re allowed to be stressed and have trouble coping with things.
Anon
As someone who has a shitty family I’m going to say you have no obligations. My family are like yours, very well off, and because of this demanding of time. Your time has value and you need to take care of you. Of course be helpful when you can, but only when you can. I’m in a similar situation and my sick relative gets meals and I help when I can but I don’t put myself under excessive stress
Emma
I need some advice on budgeting for clothes. I’m going to start a job this fall, for which I’ll need a more conservative wardrobe than I now have. I will be paid well, but I still have a good bit of student loans, so I don’t want to go crazy on buying clothes. I know that I need to buy some nice clothes, but I have a bit of trouble with that; I’m still not used to paying more than $60 for any one item. So I think that maybe a better way for me to go about this is to set myself a budget for buying my work wardrobe.
How much money would you put aside for a wardrobe?
Ellen
Yay! Pricey Monday’s! I love Pricey Monday’s and this blazer, tho I am not to crazy about the pink color. I prefer darker color’s to contrast with my blond hair, and so does the manageing partner, especialy now that I am 34, I need to start dressing more like a middel aged woman. FOOEY! b/c I realy should be MARRIED by now so I could just stay at home and raise children. DOUBEL FOOEY!
But as for the OP, I can help. If you are just starteing out, you must save and buy carfully. Do NOT just go for all the big designer’s but rather be selective. Also, if you are negotieating with an employer, have them give you a clotheing allowance of X%, so that the more you buy, the more you save! That is what I have and dad estimate’s I have saved over $20,000 since comeing to this job! YAY!
This weekend I celabrated my 34th birthday. I am NO longer the youngster I used to be, and dad kept remindeing me that my tuchus look’s alot like mom’s and she is a size 16. FOOEY! I reminded him I was a size 2 (sometimes 4), so my tuchus still has alot to go before I can start shareing clotheing with mom. Grandma Leyeh also said that with a tuchus like mine, most men would think I was already a singel mother, but I said no, there are alot of women with tuchuses and shelves like mine that are still singel and w/o children, like the one’s Gonzalo had his hands down their jean’s on Lex. DOUBEL FOOEY! Grandma Trudy said for me to be patient, but to be very generus to the right guy in bed. I think she know’s that Alan Sheketovits and I did have sex together so Mom must have told her.
I am not abel to work at the office yet, tho the manageing partner said I could come in tomorrow to look to make sure the right stuff was in my new office. I am to have the window by the door, so I will get to see natural light instead of the old crummy office. I think he had the mover’s pack my chair but I do NOT want that smelley thing in my new office. The manageing partner said he is bringing in CRUMBS to celabrate the new office AND my birthday! YAY!!!!
Anonymous
Well, for a whole wardrobe, I’d set aside $10k, but for a starter capsule of nicer clothes to start your new job, I’d probably set aside $500-$750 for a sheath dress, a suit (with skirt and pants), 3 blouses and a pair of heels or nice flats.
Parker
I would say that depends on how much your current wardrobe can be recycled. In my mind, it’s better to save up once and get a few quality items and be done with it. Also, since you have some time – DEFINITELY wait for sales and maybe go to a real outlet.
For 1000 bucks, for example, you can get
– 2 pairs of leather shoes (65 $)
-2- 3 Theory suits (500-600 $)
– 5 silk or chiffon blouses (250$)
– 2 statement necklace (70$)
– 1 belt (40$)
– 1 bag (at your discretion – maybe as for this as a graduation gift)
if you are strategic about it and combine sales, offers etc.
Anon
Nordstrom Rack! They have great business casual stuff on sale, and you can get really good prices.
Working out of school I bought: two pants, three skirts, a dress, a black sweater, and a full suit. All were black and blue so that I could buy around ten tops to match all of them. I wish I had bought more skirts, because that is what I generally wear. I think it all cost around $500-$600. I found that buying the business casual stuff throughout my last year of school worked the best. A piece here and there until I had it all.
Don’t forget shoes! Can be a pain to find but I agree with the two pairs of leather shoes from above. You can start with one, but you need to make sure it works with your pant length.
Diana Barry
+1. You may also want to hold off on buying stuff until the end of your first week of work so that you can properly gauge the formality of your office, since the people in your department may be more/less dressy than the official dress code.
Anon
+1. My first job out of law school id been told would be suits every day. Once I started, I figured out that wasnot the case. Have enough clothes for week 1, then reevaluate.
Veronica Mars
I’m going through the same thing right now! I’d first take an inventory of everything that you already have that’s “work appropriate.” For example, you might already have some colorful cardigans that you could wear to the office with nice trousers, etc. Once you know what you have, see what else you might need, using an office capsule wardrobe as a guide (if you google it, many come up). I’d also personally wait as long as possible before actually buying anything, because you want to really know the culture of your office and match it.
If you need suits, I’d recommend getting 2-3 full suit sets from either Banana Republic or J Crew (pants, skirt and jacket). They seem to be at the sweet spot of good quality and low(est) cost. Especially if you wait and use a coupon.
Zelda
I agree with a lot of the advice here. Does conservative mean that it has to be business formal or is it business casual? What kind of clothes do your peers/bosses where on a day to day basis? That makes a huge difference. For example, I would only get 1-2 suits if you’ll rarely wear them to the office because often a separate blazer looks better than wearing a suit as separates. Plus you want your suit to get roughly the same amount of wear so all 3 pieces should be dry cleaned at the same time. In addition to BR and JC, Halogen also hits that sweet spot of quality and cost and can sometimes be found at Nordstrom Rack for a steal.
Batgirl
When I started at my firm, I spent about $1500-2000 in one go and chalked it up to a business expense (personally, not for tax purposes!). I got a lot of things on sale and made it work. Then, I supplemented as time went on. I don’t think you need to start with a huge amount of stuff, but you do probably want to have enough that you feel like you can coast for a while since you may be busy at a new job. That $1500-2K included suits, shoes, a bag, and loads of tops, mostly from BR and J. Crew.
NYNY
If you’re finishing school now, Ann Taylor offers a 15% discount with valid student ID. I don’t know if that’s on top of any other discounts – they almost always seem to have some sale going – but it’s worth looking into.
Agree with all saying that you should wait to make most of your purchases until you start. Get enough to wear different outfits for 5-8 days so you can see how people at your level and the next level up really dress. And “different outfits” means combinations of the same pants, skirts, blouses, and toppers (blazers/cardigans), not 5-8 outfits of completely different pieces.
CPA Lady
I had to do this, and ended up spending around $1,500 for basic items and then filling in the gaps over time.
Main piece of advice–Do not buy your suits at an outlet. Complete waste of money. I ended up giving both the suits I bought at the BR outlet to goodwill within the first year of owning them. One pilled horribly, the other developed these weird white marks. I am cheap and hate paying much for my clothes, but I have never regretted buying the sort of classic well made items I go back to over and over again, even if it stings in the moment.
Look for upscale consignment shops in your area. They aren’t necessarily good for building a cohesive capsule wardrobe, but they’re usually good for filling in the gaps– nice tops, blazers that aren’t part of a suit, etc. BR usually has a 40% off sale every Wednesday.
Anonymous
I ‘ve been a broken record on jones new york lately, but they are having 50% off their suiting today. So if you know you are going to need at least one suit, I would look there. In general I’d put off spending big money until you get a feel for the culture. But if you are starting essentially from scratch I’d spend around 300-600 on some blazers/suiting/blouses/pumps and then wait and see what the general feel is.
S in Chicago
I ‘ve been a broken record on jones new york lately, but they are having 50% off their suiting today. So if you know you are going to need at least one suit, I would look there. In general I’d put off spending big money until you get a feel for the culture. But if you are starting essentially from scratch I’d spend around 300-600 on some blazers/suiting/blouses/pumps and then wait and see what the general feel is.
Anonymous
I know- I am stocking up since my size is pretty consistent. I thought the quality was way better than recent AT suits Ive bought lately in thickness, feel, look and wrinkle resistence and for my figure (large chest, size 10, stomach area is a trouble spot) the fit was a million times better
Emma
I’m probably going to place an order today. I bought a bunch of stuff a few weeks ago, including 2 great pencil skirts, and a few nice dresses. I really like the quality of the skirts, especially, and I could use a few pairs of pants. I fluctuate between 2 sizes (if only I could just stay at the smaller one!), and I really need to have skirts and pants in both sizes. And that JNY sale is crazy good.
BankrAtty
Um, you don’t need $10,000. That’s crazy talk. Ebay is a great source for clothes–go to j.crew, nordstroms, banana republic, etc. and try on styles they carry year after year (ie, no. 2 pencil skirt, school boy blazer, halogen seamed pencil skirt, gemma wrap dress). Write down the style and size and then go find it on ebay. I regularly buy business suits at Ann Taylor for $100 during their “take 60% off” sale promos.
Emma
Thank you all for your advice! It is so helpful — especially to hear what brands / specific items people have found to be good investments.
I’ve been following this blog for about three months, and I must say that I was thrilled to have Ellen respond to my post. It gave me such a kick!
Anonymous
Instead of putting together a total clothing budget, I think it’s more helpful when you’re putting together a new work wardrobe to break down exactly what you need and then come up with a plan for generally where you’re going to find it and how much you’d like to spend.
You don’t need to spend a lot of money for a nice, conservative work wardrobe. The key is to buy lots of neutrals so that you effectively have a capsule wardrobe and everything goes with everything else. I generally suggest darker neutrals because the quality of the fabric/cut is much less noticeable with dark fabric than brightly colored or light colored fabric. For example, all of my work clothes are black, navy, charcoal and plum, and everything matches with everything else.
The following capsule wardrobe is on the formal end of business casual (essentially, slacks or a dress with a blazer on top). The budget below is $1200, but that assumes that you buy everything new from the stores listed below. If you go to consignment/secondhand stores for the blazers, jewelry and dresses, or if you are able to otherwise find items on sale, that would bring your expenses down. This also assumes that you don’t already have any of the following items. More likely, you’ll find you already have some tops that will work under blazers, some nice understated earrings that you can wear, etc. And, of course, if you prefer pencil skirts to pants, or you hate dresses, etc., this list will need to be tweaked accordingly.
2 Pairs of Pants ($120) — Assuming you like wearing slacks, I suggest buying two pairs (black and navy) of lightweight wool slacks from Banana Republic, Ann Taylor or Jones New York. If you wait for a 40% off sale at Banana Republic, they will be about $60 each.
7 Tops ($105) — This is where I’d definitely go as inexpensive as possible. If you pick dark neutrals and wear a blazer, no one will even notice your tops. I stick to short sleeved tops because then I never have to dry clean my blazers. Try the sale rack at the stores I mentioned above and you should be able to find tops in the $15 range.
7 Blazers ($350) — I would suggest blazers over cardigans if you’re looking for a slightly more formal, authoritative look that’s not full-on business formal suits. I’d cruise the sale racks at Banana Republic, J. Crew, Talbots and Ann Taylor, and Jones New York and look for separate blazers that have a non-suit-like texture/silhouette (tweedy, subtly patterned, linen, belted, etc.). Note that you’ll likely need a different style of blazer to go with your dresses (shorter, boxier blazers work better with dresses for some reason). If you have the time and patience for it, secondhand stores and thrift stores often have a great blazer selection. Blazers don’t really wear out; the thing to look out for is whether they look dated (which will be obvious to you when you see it).
2 Dresses ($250) — Two lightweight wool sheath dresses (black and navy). Budget $125 each and shop the sales at the above stores.
1 Handbag ($75) — Zara is great for handbags that look more expensive than they are. Buy something in a clean silhouette with a neutral color that matches the rest of your wardrobe.
Jewelry ($100) — Pick up one pair of small, nice-looking earrings and two simple necklaces.
Shoes ($200) — Buy a pair of pumps and a pair of comfortable flats or wedges, both in a neutral color that matches your pants/dresses.
In my experience, sticking to dark, well-fitting neutrals means that it’s easy to consistently come across as “polished” but without your clothes standing out in and of themselves, and then you’re able to get away with having a relatively small wardrobe.
And of course, once you have a base wardrobe figured out, you can always add in some nicer pieces as you go. In the beginning though, I find it’s easiest to buy a bunch of basics that are just decent quality, not expensive and match with everything else, and then you can go from there as you get more comfortable in your new job.
Emma
Thank you so much for this advice!
L in DC
You’re welcome! My description above is exactly what I did when I first started at a large law firm that was on the formal end of business casual and it’s still the general outline of my work wardrobe. I now have more dresses, a few more pairs of shoes, and more slacks so that I can go longer between dry cleaning runs, but the overall look holds up very well over time.
Amy H.
I am a broken record on this point, but I highly recommend the various Gap “Premium Pants” for work trousers — when they go on sale. They are often excluded from sales but once in a while the 25-40% off whatever does apply. The majority of my work trousers used to be Banana, but they now have fewer suiting pieces/trousers that are professional enough for my business formal office. I now rely on the “Perfect Trouser” in black and grey, and the “Modern Boot” in navy. Depending on your office, you may also be able to wear the “Tailored Crop” pants if you can order them in a size long enough that they hit the ankle.
Anon
I am so annoyed. In the last week I have ordered one item from Ann Taylor and one item from Loft. Both were on sale and in both cases in the next few days they were listed for an even greater discount. I could return and re-order but I paid shipping, so that doesn’t seem worth it. This is what I get for straying from Nordstrom!
ETA: Loft is having a 70% off flash sale today, if anyone wants to take advantage.
anon
you should be able to contact customer service and get them to rebate you the difference.
OP
Nope, they won’t do a price adjustment unless you paid full price originally.
Anonymous
This is why I stopped shopping at Ann Taylor. I bought a purse and the next day, it was considerably cheaper. They would not give me a price adjustment, even though I could have returned and repurchased it. I was so furious, I just ended up returning it and never shopping there ever again.
Anonymous
their customer service is HORRIBLE. I bought a bathing suit final sale. The purchase went through but later then sent me an email saying the top was not going to be sent to me. So I would just have the bottoms. And no they did not let me return the bottoms even though they were completely useless without the top, and even though it was their error on their stocking that induced me into buying both pieces.
N.C. anon
To lsw from Friday’s thread: I’m still finishing off a bottle of Redken Fresh Curls curl refiner, which seems to be discontinued. I also have and like Redken Real Control crema care. When I take the time to twist my curls in the morning, these products seem to really help. (And they’re very lightweight.)
lsw
Thanks, I will definitely try it!
Blouse PSA
The dangers of blouses requiring tank tops: This morning I got ready in a hurry and put on a chiffon blouse that requires a tank top underneath it. I was a block from my condo when I looked down and realized I had forgotton the tank top and everything was fully visible to the poor, unsuspecting public. I shudder to think that I might have made it all the way to the office without realizing! It’s not even April Fool’s day…
Idea
Ha! I have a man friend who once did it the other way – accidentally went to work with only his undershirt on, without his polo or button-down shirt on top.
LilyS
My solution to this is to hang the blouse and its tank top (I designate one per sheer top) together on the hanger – I usually wash them together, too, even if the tank top doesn’t require as much babying as the blouse.
Baconpancakes
My solution is to lust over the adorable sheer tops but never buy one. I can barely remember to wear a nude bra under a white shirt (one day it was red, and when I realized it, horrified, I had to arrange my scarf to drape over my chest the entire day), let alone a tank top under a sheer top.
LilyS
That’s usually my solution, which is why I have few enough that they can each have their own tank top!
Rome-bound!
I’m taking a trip to Rome and the Amalfi Coast in about a month — very excited. I realize it’s still early, but I’m starting to think through what to pack. I realize I should have chest, shoulders, and upper arms covered to go into churches — I’ll bring cardigans and scarves as necessary — but I’m wondering how long skirts should be. Would a dress that goes to the top or middle of my knee work? Must the skirt come below the knee? I’m 5’7″, if that makes a difference. Thanks in advance!
Rome
In Rome´s churches, it is expected that knees, chest, shoulders & upper arms are covered . A dress that hits the middle of the knee may be considered too short IMHO. So you might want to get one long summer dress to be on the safe side.
CherryScary
Anything above the knee should be covered. Some of the girls I was travelling with would bring a second scarf to wrap around their waist for churches. Probably not the most fashionable, but it worked!
Anon
Beware of stowaways. I think I could scrunch up enough to fit in your checked bag.
Be sure to pack fabulous sunglasses.
Maddie Ross
Beware of stowaways. I think I could scrunch up enough to fit in your checked bag.
Be sure to pack fabulous sunglasses.
Anon
I went to Rome and the Amalfi Coast on my honeymoon a few years ago. I wore dresses that hit either right above or at my knee everyday. I had no problems going anywhere (including the Vatican). They really care more about your shoulders being covered. I took a wrap with me everywhere and it worked great. Have fun!
SoCalAtty
Seconded – skirts and shorts were much shorter in the Vatican than I anticipated. I’d say anything at or below the knee is safe.
We worked really hard and managed to fit all of our stuff into a backpacking backpack, a la Rick Steves when we went to Italy. I was so glad we did – it was so easy getting on and off public transit, and there just wasn’t much stuff to keep track of. It was great! Check out the Rick Steves website for suggested packing lists. We were there for 10 days.
Rome-bound!
Thanks, all! And yes to the fabulous sunglasses.
CHS
I also packed a pair of capri leggings that I wore under skirts and dresses when we were visiting a lot of churches. Was a sportier look but also really comfortable and allowed me to run around without any worries.
best earbuds?
None of my Apple iPhone earbuds ever last more than six months. One headphone always goes out. In frustration, I bought a Sony pair… and they barely lasted TWO months.
Is this normal? Shouldn’t earbuds last a little longer than that? Any recommendations for other brands, or are the Apple ones the best ones out there?
Veronica Mars
I have the Bose earbuds and I love them. I usually get about 2 years of use out of them before they die (and I am ROUGH with them).
Wordy
Bose earbuds are well worth the $$$. The sound quality is fantastic. Mine are probably 5 years old and going strong.
best earbuds?
Which Bose earbuds do you ladies use? I’d be willing to pay that price if they last!
LawDawg
+1 for Bose. If you register the product, they will replace them if they go bad within a year. I have also gotten replacements at 13-14 months with no charge.
Veronica Mars
I just looked at mine and they don’t have a model number on them, but they definitely retail between $99-$130. Maybe see the different ones on Amazon and get the one with the best reviews?
Wordy
I think mine are the equivalent of the Sound True.
mascot
How are you treating the headphones and how do your store them? If you are pulling them out or unplugging them by the wire part of the cord or wrapping them tightly around something, you could be tearing up the internal wires. My noise cancelling earbuds (JBLs?) came with a rigid case for storage that is about the size of a deck of cards.
Anonymous
yeah, this. I don’t need a case, but I take really good care of mine. Every. Single. Time. I take them off, I coil them up, over-under style (look it up on Lifehacker) and I keep a twisttie attached at the plug end which I use to secure the coil. And I put them in a side pocket of my bag. Mine have been lasting at least a year since I started doing this. And finally stopped chewing on them when I have them on at work ;o\
Burberry worth it?
I have a Michael by Michael Kors trench I like but after just a couple of years it’s starting to show some wear. Plus I feel like the button out lining is not very nice. In my quest to buy fewer but higher quality items, I’m trying to decide if a Burberry trench is worth it. Anyone own one? thoughts?
new anon
I have and wear one that’s probably 30 years old (a hand-me-down from my mom). The buckle is worn and I’ll likely try to have it replaced, but otherwise, it look great. I can’t speak to whether the quality of their new items is comparable to that of their older products, but I could not be happier about this coat. FWIW, it’s also longer (mid-calf), which I find to be useful: it’s long enough to go with literally anything I might wear to the office, and with the lining buttoned in, was wearable all winter in Washington, DC.
Anon
I own one, because I can’t find any other brand that would make a trench small enough for me. It’s personally my best splurge and I have no regrets. The cotton fabric and workmanship, details etc are noticeably superior to, say, the BR ones. They also offered to alter the coat for me in whatever way that was needed, and luckily I only needed the sleeves shorten. I don’t know if Burberry has decided to do this worldwide, but at least at our local store, there was no fuss about alterations, and they also offered to take the sleeves up from the shoulders (which is harder to do) so that I wouldn’t be left with thread holes at the wrist loops.
Just brace yourself for a possible obnoxious CS who insists your Old Navy scarf isn’t worthy of your Burberry trench.
anon
I LOVE my Burberry trench. That is all.
boston anon
I have a burberry and in retrospect, I probably would not have gotten it. Don’t get me wrong, it is BEAUTIFUL and I feel great wearing it, but I has have a $300 Club Monaco trench that I feel equally great in. I just don’t know that I would go back and spend the $2000 on it again given that I really enjoy the other one.
Sad Anon
I am six weeks pregnant (we’ve been trying for a few months), and yesterday husband and I were watching a local debate about maternity leave. My employer has no parental leave, and while I can use my accumulated time off, it’s going to be a stretch. I’ve been lobbying my employer for several months to hopefully create a parental leave policy. Husband knows this and has been supportive in general but has not been involved in the research, etc. Husband has stated he intends to take no time off. (To be fair, he is in commissioned sales and not in a 9-5 office job, so it wouldn’t work exactly like that anyway.)
In the debate we were watching, one speaker made the argument that maternity leave is important because it gives the mother time to bond with the baby. I commented that I don’t think that’s the strongest argument for maternity leave. (I obviously believe a parental bond is important; I just don’t think that’s how to convince an employer to pay for it– I think they are better convinced with numbers, lower rate of employee turnover, higher rate of return after birth, etc.)
Husband exploded. He started ranting about how I am unemotional and disconnected, and that will make me a bad mother, and how if I don’t believe that mothers “naturally have a stronger bond with babies” than fathers do, then we shouldn’t have a child at all. (That would have upset me in any situation, but exponentially so since, um, we’re already having a child.)
The only things we ever fight about are parental issues. He has a conservative, retro view of mothers v. fathers, and he truly believes for some reason that women are more emotionally connected to children than men are. Conversely, I think that’s primitive hocus-pocus and there’s no reason that a father can’t make the decision to be as emotionally attached as a mother.
I’m not concerned with his assertions that I’ll be a bad mother. I am concerned with his assertion that we should not have kids, and I’m starting to worry that he’s right. That’s mostly because I think we have fundamental disagreements on what our roles should be (not really– he has a fundamental disagreement on what MY role should be, which is Magical All-Benevolent Primary Caregiver, apparently). Terminating the pregnancy is not an option for us, and I had an early miscarriage a couple of months ago, which just adds to the suckiness of this whole situation.
I don’t even know what my ultimate question is, but does anyone have any advice?
CHJ
What jumps out at me is that your husband is a mean fighter. Plenty of people could have had this same discussion in an academic / dispassionate way, but saying you’re going to be a bad mother or that you shouldn’t have kids (when you’re pregnant!) is below the belt. Perhaps there’s some explanation for his bad behavior (anxiety about having a kid, for example), but that’s still no justification for saying all sorts of horrible things to you.
Anyway, I don’t have any good advice, other than sympathy. And you sound like a reasonable person who will be a great mother, even if all-glowing-earth-mother is not your personal parenting style, so tell him to STFU and get his emotions in check if he wants to remain on this long ride with you.
anonomom
No advice (or not enough time to do it justice while at work) but you have my sympathies. I know you’ll be a good mom.
Anon
Yikes, that sounds unpleasant…to try to put a positive spin on it, obviously impending first-time parenthood is stressful for everyone, and he might be having difficulty churning through all those emotions and expectations the same way you are, leading to the outburst. I know sometimes I say things I don’t really mean when I’m upset, as I think we all do. That said, I think you should try to talk about it rationally (maybe in a few days once you’ve cooled off) as its going to be critical to get on the same page before bebe arrives and throws your world upside down.
Anon
Counseling, stat.
L
+1. I mean wow.
New Mom
Agreed. This is really worrying. Being a parent is hard enough without having troglodyte for a partner.
Lyssa
Congratulations on your pregnancy.
My hope upon reading this is that this was out-of-character of your husband – was he otherwise stressed out, maybe the uncertainty of the pregnancy and what that will mean for you guys is hitting him, or maybe he just had a bad day or whatever? I hate to see terms like “exploded,” so I’m hoping that he’s not usually inclined to lose his temper over normal disagreements. If that’s the case, I would probably recommend considering counseling, as that’s obviously not healthy.
Leaving that aside, this just seems like a fairly routine difference in the way that people look at things. Emotional bonding is a pretty hard thing to define – you two may not even be talking about the same things when you’re talking about it. I would have said what you said before having kids, but after carrying my little guy around with me for 9 months, I felt a little bit different, I think. I would focus more on how things will play out in practice (that is, what you two are deciding will be best as far as who will take time off when baby is sick, who will handle doctor appointments, who will handle baby in the evening, etc.) then these more intangible concepts like emotional bonding. But, on that note, you guys should probably make sure that you are discussing these things, as it sounds like he might be inclined, perhaps not intentionally, to let that stuff fall to you, so you have to set expectations on it right away, before letting that happen.
anon
+1. You will have NO idea how you will bond (or he, or not) to your child once you lay eyes on him/her. I think Lyssa’s advice to try to parse out the business end of caregiving may be a good start.
In any event, congratulations as well. I’m sorry you had such a rough entry! Also remember that parenting and parenting as a team is something that evolves. If you decide to nurse, that baby will essentially be “yours” for about the first 3 months, for sure, and 6 months-beyond too. No amount of un-earth-motherness can separate that, even if you don’t really get the blissful daisies and bunnies of nursing. Your kid may be naturally more drawn to one of you or the other. There’s no way to tell.
Lyssa
Someone really needs to publish a big list (this may be a good topic for the Mom S!te) of all of the things that a dual-career couple need to address in advance (i.e., how you will divvy up doctor appointments, day care drop-offs/pick-ups, how you will handle if one person is out of town, who will take off work if baby is sick, household stuff, shopping, etc.). My husband’s a SAHD, so it’s not a big issue in our family, but it seems like it’s really a big thing to divide up and there’s so much that you don’t think about before it happens, and it’s so easy for that stuff to just fall to the mom if you don’t agree ahead of time who will do what.
Meg Murry
Yes, its way too easy for the mom to be the default parent. My husband handled the majority of the caregiving when my first son was little, but after the second was born I took a step back, career wise, to take on more of the parenting. But now my kids (and their teachers, and their doctors and dentists) call me first for everything, and its a hard habit to break. For instance, this weekend my kids spilled something in the living room. They walked right past my husband’s office, where he was sitting with the door open, up the stairs, and into the bathroom to come get me to help them clean it up. I was so frustrated. I’m pretty sure the default parent conversation is one you need to have, and which of you will handle which parts: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/m-blazoned/the-default-parent_b_6031128.html
For the OP – I wanted to pick up on something else you touched on. Its still early now, but you and your husband need to have a chat about who will support you during the earliest days when you are still healing and caring for a baby. Bonding aside, you will need someone to help you with meals and basic housekeeping, and possibly (probably) to help you stand up out of a chair or to get to the bathroom. If your husband isn’t taking any time off work, and you will be taking care of the baby, who will help take care of you? This isn’t a conversation you need to have today – but its something you need to think about by the second trimester, and definitely into the third. You don’t want him having some kind of notion that since you won’t be working (outside the home – you will be working) all household and baby related tasks will be your responsibility while you are on leave.
If he isn’t willing to go to counseling, could you at least do some parenting or baby care classes together? At a minimum, you need to have a conversation about what each of you expect of the other, and what parts of parenting and running the household will be 50/50, 75/25 and 100/0.
JJ
Agree completely with Lyssa. I hope it’s a one-off occurrence (that is, unquestionably, fighting mean and ugly by your husband). I also think you guys need to have lots of talks about divvying up responsibilities once the baby gets here. Make it out in the open, so everyone knows what the expectations are. Is he planning on you being the “default parent” and therefore taking the inevitable career hit solely by yourself?
On the bright(er) side, this may also be a case where your husband really doesn’t understand or know what an emotional bond he will have until the baby is born (and maybe several months after that). As soon as women find out we’re pregnant, our lives change and we have to come to terms with that. Men have the luxury of taking much longer to sort out their feelings. Maybe your baby will be born and your husband will be completely smitten and completely change his mind. Mine did something similar, and I can barely pry him away from our kids for date nights and the like.
Anon
“I’m not concerned with his assertions that I’ll be a bad mother”
I am. I’m not concerned that you will actually be a bad mother, and I don’t think that you should be either, but I AM concerned that he chose to say this to you. This is a terrible thing to say to a person. It is incredibly denigrating and uncalled for and unrelated to policy considerations re; mat leave. When things get stressful when baby is here, do you want this man hurling insults regarding your ability to be a mother?
Anon
Oh, this is crummy, and I’m sorry. This seems like a disproportional response to your one-off comment, so I’d say it’s something that has been festering for him for a while, or perhaps he has a familial history that makes him think this, or it’s anxiety about the pregnancy. Whatever it is, this is a crap way to be treated at six weeks pregnant. And to think that this is his opinion of you must feel awful. Big hugs.
It sounds like LOTS of communication is needed. Both with each other and through a therapist. You have plenty of time ahead of you and perhaps can get to a place where you both have a better sense of what kind of parents you want to be, and what your parenting relationship with each other will be. I hope that he can get to the point where he knows that he, too, can have a loving, close relationship with his kid(s), and to get excited about your baby, because it’s sad to think of the alternative.
If he doesn’t seems to be changing his tune, however, I’d also consider that he’s not parent material–an unsupportive spouse with a new baby would be toxic. You may be better off and much happier being the kind of loving parent you want to be on your own, rather than fighting with your husband over his messed-up vision of motherhood.
Anon
Maternity leave is important b/c the baby can’t take care of itself. Someone has to take care of it! And the feeding part seems to have the tie go to the mommy (can someone make men lactate?). Nothing like winning by default.
Plus, after either having surgery or squeezing a basketball (size of my children’s heads) through a recreational area, mommy may need some time to physically recover. Hence leave.
At any rate, pls consider counseling now b/c you will never have the time later when you may really need it.
Also: who will take the baby to appointments where shots are given or blood is drawn? Or to the ER? Is it the parent with the bond or the parent who is less likely to get very upset and flip out (assuming they are not the same person)? Sometimes the Stoic Parent (better than heartless automaton parent) may really be what is needed.
Anonymous
If this is a first child, a lot will change once the little one arrives because the reality is it will transform your lives.
25 years ago, I was the first person in my family’s generation to get married and have the first nephew and grandchild. Some of the expectations were really “out there” and the mantra of “just wait until you have kids” was a sanity-saving meditation, because all of them were going by the “common knowledge” paradigm. We do what fits our family situation.
Yes, counseling is good. And keep talking. Is he the first in friends or work-group to be a parent? Who are his role models for family life with children? Did someone just get passed over for promotion at his work because of excessive absenteeism and it’s blamed on their parenting status when it’s not having a backup plan for attending three hearings that were missed that’s the problem?
We all feel a little fragile, or crispy, when there are new, big changes on the horizon. Lyssa mentioned some great strategies, and maybe go out to dinner with successful working couples who have made it through the 0-2 years recently and see how they did it, sort of like parenting mentors.
Anonymous
This is a disagreement over gender essentialism – which is social conditioning about the roles of men and women, and shaming people who disagree with what 50’s television laid out for our parents.
We often experience social pressure to conform that our families, media and other influence peddlers press when we’re socialized at different intervals such as school (kindergarten, junior high, and high school) or workplaces.
You and your husband need to be each other’s allies. What is his game plan if you are unable to care for your child for a day, a few days, or longer? Sometimes the baby is discharged before mom. Is he going to rise to the occasion? If he isn’t (and the hospital staff will help him know what to do, and there are parenting classes for all parents), who is?
I could bring up gay men who parent, as well as SAHDs, widowers, single parent dads, and military husbands whose spouses are deployed – but that might be seen as trolling.
Just Wow
Why are you actively procreating with someone with whom you have a fundamental disagreement over what your respective roles will be in caring for and raising your child? Babies aren’t magical beings that fix pigheaded troglodytes and turn them into equally-contributing parents, nor do they magically turn women who want equal partners in child-rearing into June Cleaver. Seems like both of you are engaged in some wishful thinking about what will happen when the baby is born, and you need to replace that wishful thinking with actual reality ASAP.
Counseling stat, both for you guys as a couple and for you individually.
Anon for this
I felt almost cruel to say this, but I completely agree.
This isn’t about pre-baby stress. Your husband, it appears (many months too late), has put 2 and 2 together that the two of you have fundamental differences of opinion regarding parenting and your respective roles. Questioning whether you should have children together when you are already pregnant is really, really poor timing. But maybe it’s how he feels. If your husband is not characteristically a dirty fighter and drama queen who is bitingly nasty in fights, then the fact that this is all spewing to the surface right now isn’t necessarily about him trying to hurt you, but about a terrified man that just realized a huge issue that is about to face his marriage and his future family.
The timing is really awful, but what if he’s right? I agree with 12:17 Anonymous that this is about gender essentialism, and this isn’t something you just change your mind about when you see a chubby smiling baby face. I think you need to get to counseling ASAP to decide if you can come to an agreement about parenting roles. If you can’t, you need to think about next steps. But regardless you need to DO something about it. Just keep on keeping on and pretending this huge elephant in the room will go away is going to benefit no one.
This is truly, truly awful, and I really feel for you. I really wish you all of the strength and luck in navigating this situation.
anonymous
+2. This is really concerning, and I agree with the above posters.
CPA Lady
Yikes. That seems like a real red flag to me. I feel like it is such a deeply hurtful thing to say that someone is a bad mother– especially to your pregnant wife (!!!). That’s a really personal attack.
I just had a baby 6 months ago, and I do feel like I am more connected to my baby than my husband is, though he loves her very much. I think if you nurse the baby, you automatically become the default parent, because you’re basically 100% responsible for feeding the baby for as long as you are on maternity leave. Then its easy for him to slip into the “well you know how to comfort the baby better, so …” mindset. You have to be very conscious from the beginning if you want to avoid being the one who does everything.
Putting aside how hurtful his comments were, I think y’all need to sit down and as calmly as possible figure out each others assumptions of what is going to happen when the kid comes along– and these are things that can run deep and be things you’re not really conscious of. Even my liberal husband at one point several years ago made a comment about how I’d someday need a larger vehicle for “carting around the kids”. He didn’t even consider the possibility that he’d be the one carting around the kids.
After I got pregnant, we had a lot of conversations about how we were going to split up duties when I was on maternity leave and afterwards. Having set tasks helped him be involved and me not get too resentful. Maybe when you have this discussion frame it as him supporting you in your maternal role or something that sounds palatable to him. I’m not saying that he’s right with the 1950s gender roles nonsense, I’m just saying that sometimes you have to figure out a good way of phrasing things to someone.
A little ray of sunshine — things really can change when the baby comes along. My husband had always said that he didn’t want to be in the delivery room when I gave birth, as he’s terribly squeamish. But of course he was there. And he’s done great stepping up to the plate as a father. So it’s one thing to be having these mildly sickening conversations when you’re pregnant, and its totally another to actually have a new little human to take care of– someone that both of you will fall in love with.
anonymama
It sounds like his anxiousness over having the baby is getting to him. (Will we be good parents? etc) But it also sort of sounds like you have been playing devil’s advocate a little with him over emotional bonding with baby, and making it an argument over measuring a frankly immeasurable thing like parental bonding. Instead of arguing over who’s going to bond more or less, stick to talking about practical things like who will do what (will he change diapers? get up with baby in the night? go to doctor’s appointments?) and how to facilitate and support the emotional connection for both of you. And maybe if you have a friend who is a good, involved father who can talk to him about the emotional sides of it that would help.
Also, I think mothers and fathers often do have different kinds of emotional connections with their kids, particularly in the first few weeks. I would say that almost all of my friends with kids would agree that a mother who gives birth to a child will have a unique bond, especially at the very beginning (and this includes lesbian couples). It’s not that it’s better or worse, and it’s not voodoo magical whatever, it’s that you physically have been through more in having a baby grow inside your body, that you are flooded with hormones that are designed to facilitate bonding, and that if you are breastfeeding you will be physically attached to the baby. And particularly if he is not actually taking any parental leave, the difference will probably be even stronger. Also, even if he thinks mothers have a special magical connection, doesn’t mean that he will be a bad father or not want to be involved. But yeah, maybe see a counselor, talk about how he will support you in the first few weeks especially, and try to go in with the attitude that you can work things out… you have a long time to figure it out before the baby gets there.
NavyLawyer
He might think that women are born knowing All Things About Babies – how to diaper, when to call the doctor, etc. A childcare class would help; he’d see that you’re learning from the class too. The message is somehow passed on to us; I thought I was the only woman on earth who wasn’t born knowing All Things, but the class showed me otherwise, and gave me some confidence. I’ve also seen many men with 1950s parenting ideas turn out to be extremely engaged parents; they step up without thinking because whatever baby/house task needs to be done. I’m not trying to minimize, I’m trying to say that and education might really help.
Former Partner, Now In-House
I think you need to negotiate a post-nup with your husband. If he expects you to be the primary bonder with the child(ren), then that will impede your ability to reach your full earning potential. In the event you separate, he will need to compensate you for that. I think he should put a dollar figure on that now so that he can see what it looks like.
Sad Anon - OP
Thank you all so much for the helpful advice. Several posters questioned why I would procreate with this person, which of course I now ask myself too. He sounds horrible. However, in discussions before the pregnancy, there was never any indication that this would be a problem. I was always VERY VERY vocal about the fact that I will keep working full-time, being a SAHM will not be an option for me, and that we need to be equal contributors in childcare and child-related responsibilities. He always agreed with everything and never raised any issue that gave me any indication there would be a problem. We have always been 50/50 with housework and home responsibilities.
It is also very out of the ordinary for him to “explode” or become angry/upset at all. So that, coupled with the fact that this is the first 1950s “me Tarzan you Jane” commentary I’ve ever heard from him, is what’s really throwing me for a loop. He’s several years older than I am; all of his friends have kids, and this was actually his idea when we first started having the kid conversation.
I agree with the several posters who commented that the parent/baby emotional bond is not quantifiable anyway, and we should instead focus on the tangibles (who drops off at daycare, who goes to doctor appointments). Unfortunately, those are not the things he yelled at me about– he yelled about “having a wife who thinks that being a mother is not emotional.” Regardless, the consensus seems to be that we need counseling, and I agree. Thank you all so much for your help.
Anon for this
If you were just offered a promotion by your director (basically on a silver platter, as a vote of confidence, no need to apply or compete for it), and your director knew you had some family stuff going on and was super accommodating about it, and it would be a great next career step… would you be worried about the fact that you ALSO just found out you’re 7 weeks pregnant? I work in an organization that is very supportive and accommodating and has great mat leave – but I would be leaving approx 6-7 months into a 12-month contract. Thoughts?
(ETA: Just saw another pregnancy-related q above – sorry to be overloading the main board; feel free to chase me to the other site but would love any input.)
BB
Isn’t this one of the main points in “Lean In”? Don’t count yourself out based on nothing but your own paranoia and fear that you’re not “good enough”. Your director supports you, your company supports mothers. This seems like a win-win, no brainer to me. Make sure you make the right preparations and backups before you go on maternity leave, and you’ll be fine.
Anonymous
Obviously you accept it. No question.
Diana Barry
Agreed! You can do it! Lean in and rock it!
anonymous
Definitely accept it.
ANP
Do it! Not a question. Go get it and don’t look back. Congrats on this big vote of confidence!
Anonymous
Go for it. Other things also happen that aren’t nearly so positive, such as defections to new employment, car accidents, or joining the ranks of those with a disability. They should not change anything because of pregnancy. You have their confidence, you want to do well, and they want you to succeed. Go for it, and show them how it’s done.
Anon for this
Wow – thanks for the unanimous leaning in support!
Anon
wrong place!
EB0220
Any consulting managers out there? How do you stay organized? I have 7 consultants working in projects in various stages (sales, execution, etc.), plus HR/management planning tasks. I need a way to keep up with project statuses, consultant workloads and my specific to-dos. I would love any and all ideas or resources you have!
Wildkitten
Have you tried Slack?
EB0220
Never heard of it, but I will check it out!
TOS
On the topic of seersucker – I love the blazer but struggle with the pastels. Any examples of styling a blazer like this so it inspires power vs. the Belle “whew it’s so HOT out there this summer day?”
White is my default, and the sheath dress, or a white skit would be my go-to, I’m asking how you would incorporate other colors?
roses
Anyone have any thoughts on Comedy Central’s decision to name Trevor Noah as John Stewart’s successor? I’m not all that familiar with Noah, so I can’t really comment on his talent. I would have liked to see a woman take over the spot – it was rumored that Amy Poehler was in the running, which would have been awesome – but I really don’t think Samantha Bee is funny at all and I think Jessica Williams is a little young for the role (though I think she’d be incredible in the future). I hope Noah continues to widen the show’s range of female correspondents.
Anon
It’s really hard for me to separate the sadness that Jon Stewart is leaving from my feelings about his replacement – but in the handful of times I’ve seen Trevor Noah, I’ve thought he was very, very funny. I think it’s also interesting to have someone who is not American in the desk – it changes the feel of the show in some ways, as exemplified by John Oliver’s hosting gig. I’m excited to see what he brings.
August
Deleted as I posted it twice
August
I have not watched The Daily Show (I know that I may be the only person who doesn’t watch cable TV here) and I have not watched other people you mentioned here either. However, I have watched Trevor Noah’s comedy show recording on Netflix and I loved it. I was pleasantly surprised when I saw the news this morning.
la vie en bleu
I was surprised at first, since he has only done Daily Show segments a handful of times, but then I found out he is much more established in the UK and internationally and I saw some clips of his non-Daily Show stuff and he is brilliant.
Also there are other external things I’ve heard about that affect this. Samantha Bee is getting her own show on another network (TBS?) and so is Jason Jones. So many of Comedy Central’s more experienced folks have already left for other projects before this, so that was the obvious bench for Stewart’s job. So, I’m thinking Noah will probably do a great job, and Jessica will continue to be an amazing correspondant and we’ll have a net increase in awesome political-comedy shows across all television. And I’m pretty happy with all of that.
Plus, it’s pretty awesome that both of the key weeknight slots on Comedy Central are now hosted by people of color.
Although I am still heartbroken Jon Stewart is leaving and i will miss him so much!! :(
platinomad
Yeah I think a lot of the good female candidates are otherwise occupied, basically the only one that seems available is Jessica Williams and from an experience perspective Trevor Noah has a lot more than her (or Samantha Bee). He has hosted a least one show in South Africa, has had multiple successful world wide comedy tours and specials. Obviously a Tina Fey or Amy Poehler would have been amazing and have more experience than him, but I’m pretty positive that if either of them wanted it they would have it given their reputations.
I’ve seen Trevor Noah in person several times, and watched every available recording of him that exists. I absolutely love him. I had been super bummed about Jon Stewart leaving, but I know Trevor Noah is going to make the show amazing. His topics and style has a lot in common with Stewart, he has an amazing ability to analyze and comment on society/politics in a hilarious but salient way. He is also a master impressionist which will be fun for the show. I think all the Jon Stewart lovers out there will be more than satisfied, he’s going to be an amazing replacement.
MB
So this is really embarrassing but I think I finally need to post about it. My fiance no longer seems interested in LGPs with me. It’s been over a month since our last gardening, but this isn’t the first time this has happened. We’ve talked about it in the past and he always feels bad that he’s making me feel bad and gives me assorted reasons (one was that he gained some weight and felt very uncomfortable in his own body, another was just general exhaustion, etc.). We recently got a puppy which definitely makes us tired a lot but it’s getting really depressing to plan our wedding when he doesn’t seem to want to go gardening. He’s very affectionate it just never leads anywhere. I don’t know what to do. I just feel so rejected, and I’m too humiliated to keep talking to him about it. help?
NYNY
First of all, I’m so sorry you’re going through this. It’s really isolating. Know that you have support here.
Second, tell him that the two of you need couples counseling now, or there won’t be a wedding to plan. Maybe he needs some individual therapy for the issues mentioned. Maybe it’s something else. But you can’t stop having s*x before you’re even married and expect to have a fulfilling life together, at least not if monogamy is your shared expectation.
Senior Attorney
This.
Please don’t marry him unless and until you work this out.
Anon
You might find this blog helpful: http://www.downtothere.com/blog/
Anon
Thank you for sharing
Anon for this
Had this situation with my husband. We fought over it for years and it was a huge point of contention– I felt rejected, he felt badgered. We were both sick of fighting over it. We solved it by having a very calm and rational conversation agreeing to do it once a week every week. He got to pick the day. It took a while for the relationship to heal, but that was several years ago, and things have gotten much better and more healthy.
DO NOT marry him until you get this sorted out, and make sure he understands in crystal clear terms how important and non-negotiable this is to you.
Anonymous
Talk to him!! Get counseling!!! Break of your engagement because you want to have sex and that’s okay!!
Anon
It may turn out that you’re not compatible in this arena (since this has been an ongoing issue). This can be the norm for many couples. How do you feel about the relationship in other areas?
Anon
Financial question for you ladies. Let’s say that you have an extra $20,000 to invest someplace. 401k is fully funded, no consumer debt, emergency fund mostly in place. The purpose of this money is to start investing for medium-term projects – house renovations, etc. Where would you put it? I started looking at Vanguard, but got quickly overwhelmed. Would love any advice or inspiration.
CHJ
Betterment! I love Betterment. It’s very easy to set up, low fees, and you can choose a set goal (like House) or set it for Build Wealth and adjust the allocation between stocks and bonds to your comfort level. I’ve also found the customer service to be fantastic.
This review from Mr. Money Mustache gives a good overview of the platform:
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/11/04/why-i-put-my-last-100000-into-betterment/
L in DC
+1 to Betterment