Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: Belgio Textured Wool-Blend Turtleneck Sweater

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

Two notes about this pictured look: First, although we’re featuring the sweater here, I’m super happy to see Miu Miu (and Max Mara) bringing back flared and straight-leg trousers, because it’s a nice change from the ankle-length trousers that have dominated lately. I hope that by seeing it from high-end brands like Max Mara it means that it’s going to start to trickle down to the more affordable workwear as well. Second, I am in love with the shape of this turtleneck sweater. I’ve seen big, floofy ones and I’ve also seen super-skinny, tight turtleneck sweaters, but this is a perfect sort of in-between style — it’s kind of slouchy, kind of drapey, but it’s still professional and very stylish. I also like the bracelet sleeves and the wool and cashmere bend. (Even if you may not want to think about it, fall and winter are coming.) I just love this sweater and I think it’s a really lovely look. It comes in sizes XS-XL and is $545 at Net-a-Porter. MAX MARA Belgio Textured Wool-Blend Turtleneck Sweater

For a more affordable option, here’s one in regular and plus sizes at Neiman Marcus.

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  1. first gen BigLaw support group :

    I am in BigLaw. Yay, right?

    Except that I’m first gen in a firm where everyone else knows their golf handicap and comes from families that usually summer somewhere. You get the idea.

    For me, it’s when is Family Member A’s court date, will this make her unemployable, will I have to take in her many children and does one of them have a drinking problem? or something else? why are the police always getting called to their house? and will they be kicked out again?). You get the idea.

    I don’t worry that I can’t do my job. I think I’m at the point of actively working whether my families drama will ultimately be what limits me (and I make a good living now, but this may be all of the big $ I ever make in my life, so I can’t bail you out of every problem you get into or buy you a house). I get screamed at all the time when I visit and I go to work where I deal with traders and lawyers and regulators all day and it’s a sea of tranquility.

    I get that celebrities and professional athletes often have lives like mine and families like mine. Is there no lawyer support group for this (or is this it?)?

    • There is a always therapy to help give you coping mechanisms. Being wealthy and on top of your life can sometimes be a really lonely place.

    • Anonymous :

      Respectfully – I’d keep your financial status to yourself when it comes to home and work. You don’t know how biglaw will go and while right now you’re making 250k or whatever it’s easy to hand your family 5k here and there to bail themselves out. But if biglaw doesn’t result in partnership – which it statistically doesn’t for most – you could easily end up with a 120k job where throwing money around will be much tougher. If your family isn’t already aware of how much you make, downplay.

      • …spoken like someone who has no idea what this is like.

        OP, you have to decide what you are willing to take on, and how much of the abuse you are willing to endure, on your own. There are no easy choices. If you haven’t already, read Hillbilly Elegy for a different look at the same dynamic.

        My personal situation is a little easier than yours, but I have a sibling who calls me intoxicated at all hours, including at work. I’m lucky that we are in different cities but I finally had to just set a line for myself that I don’t answer the phone from that sibling. I call at times when sobriety is most likely. I will buy things (groceries, etc) but will not hand cash over.

        And you should be proud of yourself for all you have accomplished!

      • first gen BigLaw support group :

        I hear you. I don’t live high on the hog (like I how BR on sale only and have no logo bags) and would never say what I make.

        They live in a world where lawyer = rich. They don’t see that law school = loan$. But thanks to zillow they think that having an address means that you must own where you live and have bought it for cash and have plenty of $ left over for them.

        And, like the NFL, I think that BigCity BigLaw may be a four year ride if I’m lucky.

        [One relative is fond of picking fights and then calling the police on people, so I don’t visit her anymore b/c I think I have to report arrests and don’t want to get in trouble with work or have any clouds with the bar assocation or if I have to sit for a bar in another state and mention police contacts. She has thrown her own kids in jail.]

        • If these people are treating you like a cash cow, and in return are picking fights and threatening you, you are well within your rights to stop visiting, set extremely firm boundaries, or cut off contact with them completely. There are books you could read or therapy you could attend to help you figure out how to do this. Don’t ruin your professional life for people who are using you and treating you like crap.

          I came from a crazy family. They will take and take and take as long as you let them.

          • No way, Jose :

            +1 For me, to get where I am it took many tears, sleepless, hungry nights and lots of sweat. I will not let ANYONE use me or take advantage of me. Never, family or not. I don’t hand over cash and I won’t bail out or help anyone under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol. And if they are remotely disrespectful – it’s the dial tone and block button. If I work hard to conduct myself like an adult (since 15), and respect others and authority – then I cant accept anyone coming to wreck my life like they’ve wrecked theirs. Boundaries, boundaries, BOUNDARIES!!!!!!

            For this reason – when DH got an offer which would’ve put us back in the city we are from, I put my foot down and told him keep looking because I refused to be back in the chaos and drama.
            Find what works for you but ultimately do NOT let them limit you.

      • Anonymous :

        Of course they are aware. She’s the fancy lawyer and she makes lots of money. There is no way to hide that.

    • Anonymous :

      It’s not therapy, it just like it hits me sometimes what a total outlier I am. Like BigLaw is just for, maybe not 1%ers, but definitely 10%ers. Maybe much bigger cities are more egalitarian in who they scoop up, but here, it seems that everyone is from the same zip code, same schools, etc. and the only time they go to the courthouse is to get sworn in.

      I live two plane trips from where the epicenter of my family is, which means that I can’t be much of a help (for some nieces / nephews who would probably like a weekend activity with someone who is a functioning non-screaming adult). But I think that it’s getting to be a greater chance that social services may call me to pick up some family members and take them in and I’m not sure how I’d juggle that from so far away (it’s not like local would be easier and could very easily be harder / more drama / more regular drama).

      • Anonymous :

        Can you take them in? Realistically maybe not?

      • You don’t have to be a 1%er or a 10%er to never go to the courthouse. Being wealthy is not the only way to avoid committing crimes.

        • Literally no one has said it is. What are you even talking about?

          OP- you’re right. Biglaw draws a group of people primarily from privileged backgrounds. It is harder when you don’t share that.

    • lady lawyer :

      You find your people. We’re around. But I so hear you — people’s assumptions about what my high school/college experiences were like, in particular, get to me. I have a friend from law school who’s in a similar boat and lives in town, so that helps keep me sane, but I am definitely working with a lot of people who have very different relationships to money and their families than I do.

      There was an episode recently of the Dear Sugar podcast featuring Oprah about saying no (and saying yes when you mean it) to your friends and family when they ask for money that I found really useful.

      • JuniorMinion :

        I listened to the first half of that and thought it was really good. As someone who has strained relationships with my family, partially because of less extreme behavior like what the OP is dealing with “no” is a powerful word. You can (and should) say no to other people when it will negatively affect your life (self esteem, mental health, career finances) in a real way.

    • Been there :

      I think I see three things here:
      1. Family history making you feel like you may not fit in
      2. Family financial support
      3. Family legal drama

      I’m not at all in the same situation financially or in terms of family history, but very familiar with #3. I know this word is used a LOT here, but boundaries. It sounds like you’re already doing pretty well, but “I’m at work.” is a perfectly legitimate end to a conversation about how they need your help. You, I’m guessing, work a TON, and the last thing you need when you have a break is more law.

      Until I put my foot down, I was the go-to (starting my 1L summer!!!) for “what happens to Uncle after his DUI? what happens now? what’s going to happen long-term? will he be able to get a license? can you run to the courthouse and pick up documents? can you get the court records? what do they mean?” and finally had to put my foot down: I’d answer questions from my parents about my uncle, because they are good with boundaries, but I wasn’t the family ATM for legal advice and assistance. I wasn’t going to explain to my grandparents his newest legal drama, wasn’t going to be the one to tell them the long-term consequences of his various arrests, and absolutely was not going to be making referrals. It’s helped a lot because they know I’ll just say no. “No is a full sentence.”

    • All families have drama, alcoholics, and moochers. The difference is that your coworkers have the money to resolve it without the police – to send Uncle Bob to rehab, for Aunt Jane’s attorney to quietly plea down her DUI offense without visiting a courtroom, or allowing Cousin Jay to live on Caribbean island hoovering up coke so he doesn’t ruin Christmases. You just don’t hear about it; no one really talks about their family members that are addicts or have mental health issues. Their families have a m/patriarch that deals with the family business just like you are. The suggestions above are great; I have none of my own but to realize you’re not the only one!

      • Flats Only :

        This is true. I come from one of those families, and family problems are indeed taken care of by throwing money at them to keep any unpleasantness at bay.

      • Marshmallow :

        +1 to this! The ability to throw cash at problems is often the difference between rehab and jail.

        • KS IT Chick :

          Another vote for this. My father essentially pays his younger sister & her kids to stay away from the rest of us, so that her brand of trouble doesn’t attach itself to anyone else. (I’ve referred to them for years as the Family Freak Show and said that everyone has the, it is just how well you can hide them.)

    • Cornellian :

      I dunno, but I’d join your support group. I posted a week or two ago about my physically abusive estranged father driving to my city to hang out in the lobby of my midtown office building.

      I sometimes feel like I’ve found a kindred spirit, and then they drop something like “Yeah, my three siblings and I went to the cheapest private school in [SUBURB], it was rough.”

      Honestly, it has bothered me less over time, but big life events like deaths and marriages always stir it back up.

    • Marshmallow :

      Oh, friend. I need that support group too (and have been slowly building it after a few years in Biglaw). It sounds like we come from pretty similar families, although fortunately mine isn’t asking me for money.

      It’s hard. I often feel like I don’t belong, don’t deserve to be there, etc. So what helps? First, remember that you DO belong and you earned your job just the same as anyone else. For the social stuff, I think of it a bit like immersion in a second language. Sure, I might gently point out that a certain experience or assumption isn’t universal (“actually, Bob, I have not flown first class before”), but I genuinely do try to assume that people have no idea they’re being exclusionary and they only know the way they grew up. I went to summer associate events at private clubs, played squash, etc.– basically if I get asked to do something, I get over my discomfort and just do it. It’s a new experience.

      I have gravitated to other folks with similar or even just slightly less rarefied backgrounds. But don’t write off people who grew up really differently from you, either. One of my closest friends at the firm grew up with wealth I literally cannot fathom (no exaggeration, I couldn’t even begin to explain it) and we have learned a lot from each other.

      Finally, one advantage I think we have is a natural resistance to lifestyle creep and golden handcuffs. Yeah, especially after a few years, I have gotten used to certain of the perks and I live in a way nicer apartment than I grew up in. But having experienced actual poverty, I know that declining a meal out or doing my own laundry or skipping buying a dress I can’t afford is not the end of the world. I’m having to learn to budget and I’m still not great at it, but I think it really helps that I came in with fewer expectations about the kind of lifestyle I deserve or “should” live that I live a little more frugally than some of my peers.

      • MineAllMine :

        +10. My family is one reason why I became a lawyer (to defend myself, not joking). Anyways, I’ve noticed that all these people who are into golf and other unfamiliar rich perks are happy to show you the ropes if you are reasonably cheerful about it, and that itself can be a great bonding experience. I tend to let blanket assumptions be unless they are egregious so I don’t always ‘other’ myself or lecture constantly, but that depends on your personal comfort level and coping mechanisms. I don’t try to blend in, as I’m a pretty alternative person, but I am agreeable and like to find common ground, probably because I had to be the peacemaker growing up.

        I also agree that coming from chaos does make you appreciate security and calm all the more, with less temptation perhaps to go overboard. I get the sense that I’m less anxious about some things because I know I can cope with almost anything, unlike some who have led a more sheltered life. Uncertainty doesn’t scare me, so there are pluses to our crazy upbringing!

    • What biglaw firm are you at?? I obv don’t expect you to say but I was in NYC biglaw (though ranked in the 20s not the very very top so maybe that’s the difference) where every class had a few associates like the ones you describe and then had many more associates who grew up upper middle class in the NJ/NY/Ct area. Sure that’s still top 10% and I’m not likening it to growing up poor — but by no means had everyone traveled first class their whole lives or belonged to country clubs. They had vacationed some with their parents but most also came in with staggering debt bc despite being UMC their parents couldn’t pay for 7 yrs worth of private undergrad and law educations. Are you comparing your situation to that of partners – bc they live the lives you describe esp the ones in their 50-60s — not most of the 1st yr associates. And the few 1st yrs who grew up that rich — they were only doing a biglaw stint for 1-2 yrs before joining their family business as GC or even if they were in it for the long haul, they were off socializing with partners (who were often their family friends), not with other 1st yrs who were wondering how quick they could pay off debt and if they’d ever be able to buy an apartment in Manhattan.

      • Anon for this :

        But if your family lives in trailers, gets their cars repossessed, are in and out of jail, and have tons of illegitimate kids from various partners/divorce drama, and are doing a bunch of illegal drugs, there is still a vast chasm between you and the folks who are “only” upper middle class, no matter how much debt they have.

        When you come from a blue-collar background, there are class markers that you have no experience with– foods you eat, entertainment you consume, sports you play, places you’ve traveled. For some of my relatives, going to [kitschy local tourist destination] would be a dream vacation. For most people I know, it is comical slumming where you go for a weekend to be “ironic”.

        My mom was basically the OP. She was the only of her many siblings to go to college, and she got an advanced degree. Her siblings and their families (children, grandchildren, great grandchildren) are mostly following the same pattern. My mom was middle class. I am now upper middle class (financially speaking) because she was able to get out and far far away from that situation. But I’ve still never even been to a country club other than for my work’s xmas party, and I don’t even know how you would join one. I grew up with middle class experiences and I’m still out of my league when it comes to upper middle class stuff.

        • That’s fine but OP need not be sooo intimidated of the middle class associates. I know when you’re worlds away from it is seems like EVERYONE is summering on the Cape or whatever. Reality is many many associates grew up in regular suburbia where their downtime was spent going to the mall and the movies, just like rural folks; sure maybe nicer malls and movies but still the same thing.

          • different anon :

            The whole idea that we all had basically the same sort of background is what makes middle class coworkers so intimidating. A lot of “not fitting in” wouldn’t even matter if there wasn’t such strong pressure to be normal and the same.

            I find really wealthy people are actually easier to connect with. Even if they are equally clueless about your own background, they don’t assume you had basically the same life as them.

          • MineAllMine :

            Different anon, same here 10000%

        • +111 I don’t think people who are used to a monied environment realize how monied they are. The top 10% in my rural hometown in my Great Plains state were people of great wealth to me, growing up — the top 10% in the New York area might as well be from another planet, no matter how much debt they have.

          • Marshmallow :

            Yes. Respectfully, some of those on this thread who are minimizing the class gulf the OP describes don’t seem aware of how wide that gulf really is. Somebody who grew up solidly in the middle of the middle class still doesn’t know what it’s like to try to budget for an extra bedroom so that if your mom can’t pay the rent on her trailer, she will have somewhere to go.

          • THIS. I’m a gov’t attorney, and am still taken aback when very junior lawyers buy houses, or travel abroad, or have bags with labels, or fancy cars. I’ve been out of school for 9 years and am still paying student loans. Only one of my parents has a high school education. Neither has left North America.

            This may out me, but a friend actually said, “I know what it’s like to grow up without much money.” Her mom was a doctor.

    • This is me. I got the best therapist my big law money could buy, cut off my abusive parents and limited my contact with siblings. Much happier though I am dealing with loneliness, but I have the freedom to build my own healthy life and the trade off is worth it. I realized later that the chaos of my family, and the resulting trauma, was interfering with my work even though I tried to ward it off. I am so much better now at my job. With the help of a therapist I been able to build mental clarity and emotional control skills (something my family sucked at).

    • Late to the thread but chiming in. Other people in your shoes exist in Big Law, we just don’t normally talk about it unless you serendipitously run into someone from a town near where you grew up so the other person understands.

      My advice as a practical matter is to decide what you are willing to pay for with family and draw lines (which sucks). For us, we drew the line at things that benefit children primarily (e.g., plane ticket to see a sick child) and don’t give money for stuff with the grown ups (with minimal benefit for the kids). With that said, we’ve also planned the fact that we will support my parents in their old age, and upon watching Hotel Marigold, me and my husband have a not-so-joking joke that we will just buy something like that to house all our parents.

      Just wanted to let you know you aren’t alone.

      • Anonymous :

        I totally understand. I’m the one upwardly mobile person in my family. I’m there for the big stuff — if you have to have heart surgery and need someone to translate Doctor Talk, or need to find an immigration lawyer, I’m there. I firmly but nicely say no to the rest. You have to put your own oxygen mask on first.

  2. What would outfit would you purchase right now if you had no budget stopping you?

    • I don’t have a budget stopping me, so much as a pregnancy. If it wasn’t for that, I’d get this suit, or at least the blazer, to get excited for fall and winter.
      http://www.brooksbrothers.com/Petite-Wool-Twill-Hacking-Jacket/PJ00064,default,pd.html?dwvar_PJ00064_Color=DKGR&contentpos=18&cgid=women-additional-25 (non petite sizes also available).

      • Anonymous :

        Those pants do NOT seem to fit from the rear view. Cannot imagine what they’d look like on me (pear-shaped, not a model).

      • LondonLeisureYear :

        what a gorgeous green!!!

      • Anonymous :

        I was so excited for a moment to see petites from Brooks Brothers. But yikes — those shoes and the styling is generally horrendous. Are they trying to be awful? I just can’t get past it sometimes.

        I love a lot of the Red Fleece items and yet they don’t come in petite (but some regular BB items do).

        • I probably wouldn’t have styled it the way BB did, but I actually don’t think it’s bad. The shoes are a bit utilitarian and the blouse a a little stodgy/too matchy with this suit, but it all feels a lot more realistic than the way suits are traditionally styled with strappy black sandals and no blouse or a skimpy cami. I do think BB sometimes goes a bit overboard with the pilgrim shoes (I blame Zac Posen for trying to be too interesting) but this particular suit, as styled, strikes me as something I might actually see on a colleague.

      • A second baby AIMS? Congrats!!

      • Oh, my goodness — I love this!

  3. Turtleneck :

    I love the neck on this turtleneck. But I do not like the shorter sleeves. I am always freezing and would layer underneath this. The rest of my arms would need to be warm and having an underlayer like heathtech peek out would really look off to me.

    • Spy style :

      This (maybe with longer sleeves on the turtleneck and the pants hemmed) would be something Elizabeth Jennings would totally wear. Maybe not together. But with an awesome coat.

    • Same here. I hate hate hate the trend of shorter sleeves for winter items.

      • Aunt Jamesina :

        I’m afraid it’s a trend that will stick around. Retailers love whenever we’re forced to buy layering pieces.

    • I agree that short sleeves = problems in cold offices, but my problem is short arms, so I love bracelet length sweaters that don’t have to be cuffed or shortened.

    • Me either. For $545, I would have expected a lot more, even if it IS cashemere! FOOEY! Dad came in over the weekend and took me over to see them buildeing my apartement building. It does NOT look like much, but thank god Dad is footeing the cost, as I have saveings but NOT enough to cover this monstrosouty! FOOEY! Myrna is kind of sad I will be moveing, but I told her she can come over and sleep over anytime b/c I have a 3 BR 3BA with a wrap around balcony. Dad says she should NOT sleep in my office b/c that is deducteable. YAY dad!!!!

  4. Ack! Hem those pants!

    • Yep. I looked at this and all I could hear was the little swishy noise of the hem dragging on the ground.

  5. anonymous :

    Needing to do a lot of boring tedious work this week. What are you best motivating spotify sound tracks?

    • I don’t know if it motivates me to work or just motivates me to have a better day, but the 90s Pop on Pandora is great.

      • +1. My favorite Pandora station for singing along (but not necessarily for work)

        For working, I also love the Mellow Beats playlist on Spotify

    • This isn’t motivating, but it is fun to listen to when the work isn’t fun. Songs to Sing in the Shower. All the songs that you never wanted to admit knowing the words to.

      • Sloan Sabbith :


        I also like Morning Stroll. Slower pop songs, but still upbeat.

      • Sloan Sabbith :

        Oh ffs


        I also like Morning (Synonym for walk that rhymes with roll but has a modded word.). Slower pop songs, but still upbeat.

    • Hip Hop BBQ. I listen to it all day. Yes, it plays the same 8 songs with a lot of frequency. But they are 8 phenomenal songs.

    • CherryScary :

      I like the Chillhop Study Beats playlist.

    • Anonymous :

      Love the Happier 911 Songs playlist!

    • Rainbow Hair :

      Lizzo makes me so happy — keeps me bopping along.

  6. I had something odd happen last week and I’m wondering if I could have handled it better. I’m in house and an executive (I am not in his chain of command) was listening in to a meeting I held in my office. He didn’t agree with my legal position and barged in, sat down, and proceeded to argue with me. I was shocked at the time and afterward went in his office and asked that if he had an issue with me, he bring it up privately, and that barging into my office in that way was disrespectful and undermined me. I’m still feeling miffed about it, because I know if the roles were reversed I would have been in big trouble.

    • Anonymous :

      How was he listening in? Was the door open? People will try to undermine you often when you are in house- that part doesn’t seem odd to me but I’m a little confused on how he could hear your meeting

      • The door was open. I generally close it during meetings but was waiting on someone to bring me something and didn’t want to miss it. His office is near mine.

        • Just to be clear I am used to people disagreeing, etc., especially this person, but felt like he really crossed a line by walking into a meeting he wasn’t party to specifically to disagree with what he was listening into.

          • Anonymous :

            Yes, he did cross a line. That’s rude. But … (and please don’t read this as snarky, I’m just blanking out here on a Monday morning) … what is it that you want us to tell you about this? There’s no magic way to change the behavior of a person who will do this kind of thing.

          • Anonymous :

            Yes, he did cross a line. Sounds like you did what you could, but someone who will do this is often not the kind of person who will change simply because someone doesn’t like what they’ve done.

          • I was just wondering if there was a way I could have handled it better? Should I have ignored it? I don’t have any good role models for these things.

          • No you did great!!!

          • I think you handled it well. There’s nothing else you can really do. I would try not to let it keep bothering you. This kind of [email protected] is just how in house lawyers are treated, in my experience.

            Being in house, I get a lot of people waiting for me to stop talking and then ignoring my legal advice. Or this conversation:
            Me (or another lawyer on our team): *identifies a problem with a legal document*
            Executive: Well I’m sure we can find a creative way to get around that.
            Lawyer: Definitely not.
            Executive: Well I’m sure we can find a creative way to get around that.
            Lawyer: *gives up*

    • Hmmm. I’m kinda shocked you are shocked by this. I mean, sure we all want collegiality, but isn’t this the type of stuff to expect at higher levels? He was putting you in your place and you rolled over (or where defeated) by not rising to the occasion and letting this happen without embarrassing him or winning the encounter. Ruminating post fact usually means defeat IME. I mean, maybe his mother passed away that morning, but barring a few reasonable excuses, this person thinks he knows your rightful place and told you what it was in front of other people.

      • I don’t know where you work but people don’t generally walk into other people’s meetings like this here. I wasn’t shocked he disagreed, just that he came in without even asking. I didn’t feel like I should stoop to his level and say something in front of the other people.

        • It’s not “stooping to his level” to stand up for yourself. Even if you had just said something like “It looks to me like you have strong feelings about this – I’d be happy to discuss those with you, but this is not the appropriate time or place. I’ll find you later” and then given him a hard stare, that would have sent a message and he probably wouldn’t do this to you again. I am glad you at least addressed it after-the-fact, but in the future, it’s best to nip behavior like this in the bud by addressing it in the situation. Don’t worry about “embarrassing” him in front of other people. He’s embarrassing himself by acting like that!

      • Whoa, I’m not in law, but no this kind of thing absolutely isn’t the norm in any place I’ve ever worked.

    • I guess I have a larger question based on the responses- does anyone who is in house feel supported and/or respected? I constantly feel beaten down because I am repeatedly ignored and non-lawyers are always trying to tell me I’m wrong about the law, but I just thought I worked with particularly entited people.

  7. Little Splurge :

    I need to pick up a small gift for an aunt. She’s in her early 60s, really into skin care, creams, perfumes and beauty items, though not make up. Likes other little niceties. Ideally something I could pick up in store easily. Budget under $50, and preferably around $30. Any favorite secret beauty weapons?

    • anon a mouse :

      Sheet masks? Maybe stop by for an hour and do one together?

      • Or gold boob masks. Not really but I find the whole idea of these hilarious and can’t wait to figure out who needs this in their stocking!

    • Sloan Sabbith :

      L’Occitane bath and skin stuff.

    • Constant Reader :

      Diptyque’s new bath and body line, you can get it an Nordstrom. The Cut just did a writeup on in — google
      The Best Thing in My Bathroom Right Now” thecut.

      “The Philosykos Gel infused my whole bathroom in a cloud of green, figgy steam and produced tiny, lovely bubbles. The L’Ombre dans L’Eau Body Balm smells even better than the Baies candle and gives me what I’m convinced are the best-scented, least-chapped ankles in New York. And the Do Son Body Mist makes me think that this whole humidity thing really wouldn’t be so bad if the air smelled like tuberose.”

  8. About 9 months ago, I commented here about having a nose like a bloodhound and a pregnancy test was suggested. On Friday, the cause of that nose made its appearance. He was 11 days late and labour started 12 hours before my induction, went in for the appointment and they realised it was unnecessary. 17 hours of labour in hospital, a failed epidural, and 10 minutes of pushing, and we have a beautiful baby boy, weighing in at 8lb11oz.

    UK fun fact, the midwives bring you tea and biscuits during labour and tea and toast once you’re done. It is the best toast you’ve ever eaten.

    • LondonLeisureYear :


    • Baconpancakes :

      Mazel tov!

      And the tea and biscuits then toast thing sounds amazing. Why don’t Americans do that??

      • LondonLeisureYear :

        I know a bunch of American moms who have had babies in the UK and are outraged by how much better it is in the UK. Like they come to you the week to do baby wellness checks! Like in your home! So you don’t have to drag your new baby and yourself to the hospital full of germs to get the baby weighed. So much smarter.

        • My mother’s big grievance with the way maternity is done in the US is that it’s all in one hospital and so all the germs and whatever else is tracked through to the birth floor. She thinks maternity wards should be in a separate building. I would settle for just being able to eat and drink liquids during labor. I had to sneak in bottled water and granola bars because all the hospital would allow was ice chips, which just make my sensitive teeth hurt.

          Congrats CB!

        • Yep! Midwife came out on our first day home and came by this morning to check my latch. She will come by regularly for the first 10 days and then we will be transfered to health visitor. We won’t have to leave for healthcare until our six week checkup. The only complaint I have was the shared wards, it was a bit disconcerting to have a baby at 1am and be placed on a ward at 4, waving bye to my husband. I was still a bit shell shocked and could have used a few more hours of support before I had to care for a baby.

        • Anonymous :

          They do an in-home wellness check for a new mom in Minnesota.

      • God, this conversation is so tedious and comes up whenever there’s any mention of either the US healthcare system or any other. Yes, it is bad here. Yes, you are just shocked that it could be so bad. Yes, there will be 1000 comments repeating the same thing that will make no difference in actually improving anything.

        • The same thing can be said of nearly all comments on nearly all message boards. Welcome to the internet. If this isn’t your cup of tea, don’t drink it.

        • I don’t know, I don’t think it’s so bad here in the US. I would not have wanted to be offered hot tea while laboring, and much preferred having a private room post-birth, where my husband got to stay, and not being sent home less than 24 hours after the fact. There’s good and bad in it all.

          • A private room is far from guaranteed even if you can afford to pay for it out of pocket (~$1400/night where I delivered). And most western/industrialized countries keep you longer than the 48 hours you get here. Pros and cons everywhere but I think statistically the US just doesn’t do that well, certainly not based on maternal mortality rates.

    • Congratulations!

    • Aquae Sulis :


    • Anonymous :

      Congratulations!!! So happy for you and family.

    • Anony Mouse :

      Makes me want to move back!

    • This makes me so happy! Congrats to you and your growing family!

    • Sloan Sabbith :

      Wooo! Congratulations!

    • Congrats!

    • Awwww. Congrats on your growing family!!

    • Congratulations!

    • Diana Barry :


    • Congratulations! glad you’re doing fine

    • Senior Attorney :

      Hooray! Much love to you and your little family!

    • Marshmallow :


    • Congratulations! I’ve been wondering how you were. Enjoy the nesting period.

  9. Bored anon :

    I’m going through a phase where I’m very bored at work. I love my company, but I’ve been in my role too long and it’s time to move to a different (internal) role. Because I’m now experienced in this role, it doesn’t take me 40 hours a week to do (I have to be present the full 40 hours). I’ve been volunteering for a lot of special projects to make up the difference, but things are in a lull right now. Any ideas of things to do to keep myself busy?

    I’ve gotten permission to work through work-related Coursera classes during work hours, but I can only spend so long on that. I’m thinking about trying to learn French (I do a limited amount of work with EU companies), but I’m starting to worry about the optics of how much time I spend learning instead of working. (I’ve been reluctant to use this time to do coffee networking for the same reason.)

    Fwiw, I’ve also been diving head-first into some personal goals outside of work lately so overall I feel fulfilled – I just really struggle to fill the time in the afternoons Monday-Friday.

    • Anonymous :

      Not many ideas, but I commiserate. People don’t really understand how awful it is to be underutilized at work for long periods of time. My personal files are all cleaned up, I’ve organized my photos online, done taxes, lots of personal calls to clean up medical bills, and the like are what I’ve done. Now that’s done and I’m back to idly reading things online. Wish I was more motivated. (A job change is not possible)

      • Sloan Sabbith :


        I’d prefer to have too much to do than not enough. For a few months, I just didn’t have enough to do, and there wasn’t exactly a way to fix it. I wasn’t even doing the stuff I needed to do, because I knew once I finished it I’d REALLY be SOL, so it was not at all a productive few months. Now I’m working on a client letter at 6:45 AM, which I think is markedly better.

        • Bored anon :

          I’m glad to hear other people feel this way – I was starting to wonder if something was wrong with me that I’m not happy unless there’s some kind of work crisis ha.

        • Yes! This is me too. And I recently came off a super busy period at work (that had gone on for over 18 months) and now that things are slower I’m struggling. I know I should enjoy the more relaxed pace because it’ll be short lived, but I’m so much better at getting things done and being motivated when there is a lot on my plate.

    • Podcasts? I work in a cyclical industry, and there are natural lulls during parts of the year. Podcasts are how I keep myself sane during the slow times.

    • Sloan Sabbith :

      Not a ton of advice. I spent a looooooot of time on here, more than I should. I also read some stuff and watched some trainings I had on my backlist to read for work.

    • JuniorMinion :

      Podcasts / audio books or youtube tutorials! I am way underutilized and this just looks like I am listening to music while I work.

      Additionally – could you do some networking at logical times and in short (1/2 hr) blocks? I plan mine for logical times (10 AM coffee, lunch, 2 pm coffee) and as long as I don’t have too much stuff during the week I don’t think people really notice a coffee or lunch here or there.

      • Bored anon :

        What kinds of youtube tutorials do you listen to?

        And agree I could do networking lunches, but lately I’ve been using lunch to advance my personal projects.

        • JuniorMinion :

          I’m upping my fitness / food game as a part of my boredom (which may not be your jam) so I’ve learned a bunch more about fitness / macro tracking etc. I have the shadow of ab lines now. Superficial, I know but its been a longtime goal of mine to eat better / develop a better relationship with food as fuel.

    • anon a mouse :

      Are there any software skills that you could improve? Better powerpoint design; learning advanced excel macros, etc? Those have the bonus of looking like you are doing “real” work as well.

      You could also download books to your computer and read them.

      • Bored Anon :

        Yep, already did a full Lynda course on VBA. I’m thinking about doing php or Python or something, but it has almost nothing to do with my role…

        The ebooks thing might not be bad. There are definitely some books related to my industry that I wouldn’t read for fun, but could get through when things are slow.

        • anon a mouse :

          Think 2-3 jobs ahead. What are the skills you’ll need for those jobs? Are they management skills? Speaking skills? Software skills? NOW is the time to start investing in those. Leadership books might be one opportunity for you.

          You could also look into whether there are any offsite leadership development courses you could attend, or if another department could use you for 20% of the time?

  10. Baconpancakes :

    Blech. This weekend was a roller coaster. Smashed a favorite vase and embedded a piece of glass in my foot, which I need to go to the doctor to get removed, was T-boned at an intersection (at 25mph so no one is hurt but the car is probably not worth fixing), had a great romantic date with my SO at a spot where we had an early date so was on tenderhooks wondering if he was going to propose (he didn’t, but we’re still well within our discussed timeline), caught up with some friends over some amazing food, completely messed up every piece of pottery I tried to throw on the wheel.

    I need a weekend to recover from my weekend. Suggestions for reestablishing equilibrium/treating myself?

    • I have a mini “me” evening by doing a easy yoga class, then getting take out of a favorite healthy dinner, wrapping up by taking a bath with a glass of wine and a good book and getting a full night of sleep.

    • Anonymous :

      Go to bed at 9. It’s my favorite thing. Bring a book don’t bring a phone.

    • I try to do things that I consider to be all mine. Re-read one of my favorite books. Drink a glass of wine that I chose because I like it, not because it was the “right” label to bring to a dinner party or the one that was on sale at the liquor store. Wear comfy, uns*xy PJs that I love and don’t worry about the holes. Basically things that say “this is who you are. you are not defined by things in your life that are beyond your control.”

      • Baconpancakes :

        I really like this framing of things that are all mine. Will be opening the barrel aged rose I’m in love with.

    • Senior Attorney :

      Oh, man!

      I vote for getting in bed in your favorite PJ’s and watching your favorite junky TV until all hours (when I stay up too late watching junky TV I remind myself of the psychological research that shows missing a night of sleep can lift depression, at least temporarily). Wine and junky snacks optional.

      (Also I am right there with you. My son visited and was in a funk and ended up leaving in a huff, Mary Louise Parker left the much-anticipated play early and we didn’t get to see her perform, and I had an argument with a piece of furniture and lost and am pretty sure I busted a toe or some other little bone in my foot — will know after my 4 p.m. doctor’s appointment which will hopefully be over in time for me to host book club at 6:15!)

      • Oh gosh, I hope you didn’t break your toe. It’s so annoying and takes forever to heal (mine took from August to November) and you can’t wear your favorite shoes. Best of luck!

  11. Also in Academia :

    I’m pretty sure my hair is thinning (41 years old, last kid born 5 years ago, so it’s not just post-pregnancy hair loss). Do I see a dermatologist about this or some other doctor? Anyone have any good fixes? It’s quite thick at teh back/nape, doing no one any good, and thinner around my part.

    • Anonymous :

      Yes, visit a dermatologist.

    • Delta Dawn :

      Yes, dermatologist– and can you move your part? Switch it to the other side? Sometimes that helps the hair stay fluffed and could make you feel better while you look for a more lasting solution.

    • thinning hair :

      Also consider an endocrinologist. Do any female family members also have thinning hair?

  12. Best tips for dealing with a suspected UTI while at work? I have an appointment scheduled to get the doctor’s diagnosis (and antibiotics!), but I’m pretty sure of what it is. I couldn’t take the day off today for several reasons, but being at the office is pretty miserable. I have cranberry juice at the ready- anything else I could be doing, other than going home?

    • Anonymous :

      Drink lots of water and then more water.

    • Anony Mouse :

      Is there a drugstore close by? Azo will relieve the immediate pain. Going forward, I’d suggest keeping a couple doses in your purse/desk for emergencies.

    • Anonymous :

      Cranberry pills! They are more concentrated than juice. Good luck – I’ve been in your shoes and it’s definitely not fun :(

      • +1 I can’t stand the juice, but the pills are a great sub. I usually take a few with me on vacation (because vacation LGP are always better), and I have a few in my purse if I start to feel that feelin’

    • BankrAtty :


    • Drink lots and lots of water throughout the day, it’ll make it hurt less and generally make it more bearable until you get to the doctor.

    • I prefer cystex. It’s been a while since I’ve taken it but I don’t think it stains, either.

      • Anony Mouse :

        Haven’t heard of Cystex. How’s it different?

        • You know, I’m not sure. Azo makes things burn for me, so perhaps I’m allergic or something. I went through a period of a lot of UTIs and it was the only thing that helped me with pain until I could get to the dr. I think you can take both at the same time, though.

    • Anonymous :

      Lots and lots of water to flush out whatever you can.

    • Anonymous :

      1. Drink all the water and tea
      2. Adjust your chair to a slight recline. 20 or 30 degrees.
      3. If possible (KYO), I sometimes clue in other women who might be monitoring my work. TBH, they usually figure it out around the third bathroom trip. Getting sympathy instead of judgment helps, just like it would with a cold.

    • Drink as much water as you physically can, and cranberry pills (if you just have the juice make sure there is no sugar added)

    • Anonymous :

      I agree with the recommendations for Azo and lots and lots of water.

      • Another +1 for Azo and lots and lots of water.

        Sending good healing vibes your way – I’ve totally been there. I used to get UTIs very frequently, and I have a job where I have to drive to client sites a lot. I remember several different occasions of driving back from a client site and stopping in every.single.little.town.gas.station/McDonalds to urgently use the bathroom – talking every 15-20 minutes. UTIs are so miserable.

        • Also, Azo makes me insanely nauseous, so I always take it with at least a half a pack of saltines.

    • D-Mannose powder in water if you can get hold of it. It’s amazing.

    • I’ve never heard this confirmed, but I firmly believe UTIs make me sad and scared, even weepy. So sometimes I have to remember not to put too much weight in my emotional reactions when I know I am fighting a UTI.

    • Take a bunch of D-mannose. That stuff genuinely cures UTIs. Everyone needs to know about it. Since I started taking it after the activity, I have not had one single UTI. Not one. If you don’t have Amazon same-day delivery/a GNC/Whole Foods-like store nearby, in a pinch, some baking soda in water will help. Cranberry is useless and potentially even bad, if you drink a juice blend.

      • Random question :

        Yep, cranberry irritates my bladder like nothing else, but d-mannose works wonders. It’s a type of sugar that doesn’t get metabolized in your body (so it doesn’t spike your blood sugar) but the molecule structure attaches to the e-coli bacteria (most UTIs are e-coli) and flushes it out. Obviously won’t cure a full-blown UTI, but I’ve been able to stave off a few that I’ve felt coming on, just by several glasses of d-mannose powder in water over a few days.

  13. Cutting off family, keeping relationships with others :

    Has anyone cut off contact with a family member but kept up a relationship with that person’s children?

    I have a cousin who had been like a sister to me. But she’s gone off the deep end (she may have always had narcissictic tendencies, but post-divorce, she gets mad if you don’t want to talk about it 24/7 and help badmouth / stalk her ex and his new GF; I have no interest in any of this). I do love her children (all in grade/middle school) and want to try to maintain a relationship with them, esp. when all of the adults in their lives fight constantly with each other (like police-called-by-the-neighbors fighting).

    I don’t live in their city, but have thought of asking if I could take them for a week in the summer (probably one at a time). Inviting trouble? Wait until they are grown?

    • Anonymous :

      You have to see that this can’t possibly work right? There is no way to cut off contact with someone and also still have any relationship with their young children at all, let alone have them come visit you for a week. I’m sorry you are in this position. A therapist might be able to help you through.

    • Been there :

      Do it. My parents were nowhere close to this, and even still, going to hang out with my aunt for the week was a highlight of my summers. I’m still incredibly close to her, and went to college in the same city as her because I knew she was someone I could count on.

    • Anonymous :

      Sadly, when I’ve tried many times, it has never worked. Kids feel loyalty to their parents, and believe anything bad the parents say about me.
      I would still try again, though.

      • Anonymous :

        And if someone refused to speak to me there is just no way I would trust them with my children.

        • Anon at 9:51 :

          Actually, I did foster the same relationships in reverse. My children have good judgement and I wanted them to get to know their cousins. Good for you, not for me.

          • God I hate the smug trite little phrase. Obviously things are good for some people not for others. I literally made an “I” statement!

          • Anon at 9:51 :

            You used a conjunction to append your statement onto mine. Sometimes grammar matters a lot.

    • Cutting off family, keeping relationships with others :

      I don’t know if I need to call it cutting off contact, but just keeping a fraught relationship on a frosty level. I often let calls go to voice-mail if I am at work, driving, taking care of my children, or working at home at night (so most all of my time is spoken for except maybe an hour or so on a weekend; if it were a call that wasn’t going to end in screaming or a hangup, I’d find time). So it’s not so much cutting off contact as it is a slow fade that I’m not trying to nourish.

      In-person visits have dwindled to every few years and I’ve recently visited, so feel no need to repeat for years. [They are a plane ride away.]

      But I could offer to let a kid come to visit each summer. FWIW, there is a in-my-city sports camp that my kids go to that the cousins’ kids would love to go to. I could fly out (sparing my kids the crazy), get a kid, bring home for a week or two, and then fly with to return. Of course, the parents could just say no (or do some yes/no/crazy/yes/no thing).

      When the kids are older, I’d definitely realize that I’d be starting at 0 with them in any event, but would try to start a relationship with and as they are comfortable with. I feel bad for them. Their dad has a new family now and their mom has just become a verbally abusive person obsessed with how life has wronged her.

      • Oh well yeah that’s completely different. I’d invite both kids at once and just send an email- “hey my kids would love to hang out with yours a bit this summer- any chance you could spare them for a week’s visit? Flights on [email protected]

        I do think you should take both at once though.

        • Cutting off family, keeping relationships with others :

          If it were just two kids, I could do that. It’s four kids though. Two might be too young to want to be away by next summer. One older girl would probably be who we’d try to have visit first. There is an age gap with the younger siblings, so we might bring them together later if we we able to do this with one. [An older boy seems to be with his dad mainly, so really not sure re him, esp. since dad doesn’t converse with our family any more; if the sister came and it went well, I’d at least reach out to the dad but Mom might pull the plug b/c she hates anyone who is civil with Dad.]


      • Something similar-ish happened with one of my cousins. Aunt and uncle A (mom’s brother) got divorced, we didn’t have much contact with cousins. Then uncle B (mom’s other brother) of a diametrically opposed political view just offers to take kids (in high school, a decade after divorce) to their place in the country, eventually former aunt and uncle A agree. This has basically saved my relationship with that cousin + his sibs – we wouldn’t have any if my uncle B hadn’t taken the risk.

    • You might be able to make this work in moderation as the children are younger. Send cards/gifts on birthdays and holidays. Friend them on facebook (if they’re old enough).

      My mom and my aunt do not get along at all. My aunt has always been gracious- timing her appearances at my life events so she could exit quickly after dropping off a gift, or not attending the event but swinging by later with a gift and a hug. In fact, she visits her grand-nieces and sends cards and texts me.

      I’m not sure visits are the best, but perhaps you could fly into where the kids live and do a day trip with them (amusement park, fair, that sort of thing).

    • I’m a huge fan of bossing relationships like this, when you want to stay in someone’s good graces but not actually deal with their bee ess. For instance, I might send an actual greeting card every couple of months to say “hey! thinking of you. I’m up to my eyeballs with work, but I hope we can catch up soon.” And then never, ever catch up–or at least not catch up until they’ve calmed way down. The card seems so much like effort but is so much less effort than ex-stalking. Sincerity is overrated in these cases, imo.

    • My mom and my aunt have barely spoken in almost 20 years, and I haven’t seen or spoken to my aunt in that time either. My aunt reached out about 5 or 6 years ago on facebook and sent me and my siblings friend requests. One of my siblings told my mom about it, and she asked me to refuse it. I don’t even know my aunt, and bear her no ill will at all, but I did as my mom asked. I’m aware that it’s likely that it hurt my aunt’s feelings, but 1) I didn’t want to refuse a direct request from my mother and 2) in the middle of their decades long feud is the _last_ place I want to be.

      All of this is to say, if you feel the need to try to maintain a relationship with your cousin’s kids, I think it’s fine to try. But it might not be possible, and you should recognize that it’s potentially incredibly awkward for the kid. If the kid doesn’t respond well to your overtures, I’d drop it.

      • Anonymous :

        This seems weird and sad. You’re a grown person and can accept. Maybe it’s worth getting to know her without the drama and ill feelings hanging over her head that may not be completely justified.

  14. Sloan Sabbith :

    Dress recommendation: Gap Cap Sleeve Ponte dress. I got it in plum over the weekend (well, tried it on and then ordered it online in a size larger) and it’s so pretty. No defined waistline, but floats away from the waist in a really flattering flare, the seaming is really thinning, hidden zipper (which, I don’t get but is apparently important), thick fabric, just really, really a nice dress. With the “GAPWOW” code, I got it for 40% off.

    • anon a mouse :

      Link? I see a cap sleeve ponte dress, but not in plum (and sold out in all but the largest sizes in other colors).

    • +1 to wanting a link. I saw a cap sleeve fit and flare in plum, but it looked way too short for work!

    • Sloan Sabbith :


      I’m 5’3″ and it’s just above knee length for me. Might be too short for a taller person. :/

  15. Reposting from this weekend for more responses (thanks I Love Cape May). Any suggestions for Wildwood, NJ, or Cape May with a toddler?

    • Anonymous :

      Not really? They’re beach towns. Play in the sand, eat ice cream, rinse, repeat.

    • I Love Cape May :

      I have a few more recommendations (just realized that I created a word document with a slew of attractions and where to eat a few years ago). If you share your email I will gladly pass it along!

    • Morey’s Pier on the Wildwood boardwalk is very toddler friendly.

  16. Asberger girls? :

    I have a daughter who has ADHD. She does well in school and is seems to be bright. But she’s a bit quirky — if you think of a young Lilith Crane, that may be a bit like her. I don’t want to treat what might be a quirk as a Big Clinical Thing or that there is something wrong with her. But girls can be very tricky socially and I want to see if there is anything I should be doing to help her (she’s a few years away from middle school but girls are already being mean).

    Are there any good online resources or books? Her school counseling staff is more used to dealing with ADHD boys who are disruptive (not girls who are non-disruptive but still somehow not clicking fully).

    Annecdata and advice welcome, too.

    • Tip: Does she have an IEP? If not. Please get one now for her because she will need it later on if she would ever need any test adaptions for the SAT or ACT or if she would need any resources in college. They usually won’t offer any help for students who received medication from their doctor but didn’t have formal school recognition of their ADHD

    • alexisfaye :

      My advice is to practice social situations with her. This is true for all kids. With mine I practice handshaking and looking in the eyes for adult meetings, how kids might act, what their responses could be, the power of naming a behavior (“You’re name calling, that’s unkind.” walk away…oddly, this worked well for me last week when a man was uncomfortably leering at me…).

      Also, help her foster her own relationships. Let her have play dates. Encourage her to find other kids who might not “fit.” Not everyone needs to be friends with the popular girls. Explain that lots of people feel left out, awkward, and most of us are just faking it.

    • Does she have any hobbies or activities? I taught dance classes throughout high school and college, and encountered a few kids like this. It’s not a quick fix, but I found that over time these kids bonded with others they trained with over their shared interests (without losing their quirks! They were able to stay 100% themselves). I think the social dynamic at classes or sports is so different (and more forgiving) than at school, and if it’s not working at one place you can always move to another.

      Your post reminded me of one girl I worked with – she was so sweet, but also quirky as you described. Her parents were champs – they rolled with it and encouraged her to go deep into her (very targeted) areas of interest (fencing, robotics camp every summer, sign language classes, etc). When you’re looking at very niche activities to begin with, I think any bonus quirks stand out less.

    • Can you get her involved with an activity where there is a social circle that is different from the people in her class at school? Sometimes it’s nice to have different groups who don’t overlap, so if one of them isn’t working for her she has another for friend opportunities.

    • Remind her that not everyone cares about or wants to listen to her details re robotics or thunderstorms or whatever her area of interest may be. Adults are at least polite about these things (though let’s be honest – who wants to deal with it) but kids are downright rude to your face and will say things like – you’re weird. So I’d encourage her to engage in those interests with kids who do care, not everyone in the 5th grade — i.e. if she’s into robots, find a robotics/engineering club etc.

    • I like everyone else’s advice. I do have some regrets about not being diagnosed earlier. Obviously my brain may be very different, but this is what it was like for me. I found that it was feedback from friends and eventually professors and employers that made me feel like something was wrong with me. I hardly remember the mean girls at school; I think at the time I had concluded that they were shallow or just wrong about things, whereas I was smart and ambitious. I was happy, confident, and driven! But I do remember kindhearted comments and questions that came from friends who were sometimes puzzled. So was I.

      Getting a diagnosis, on the other hand, made me feel like I was different but okay–though it was also a lot to take in. Unfortunately, by the time I was diagnosed, I had aged out of many services, and I’d spent years playing to my strengths and avoiding situations that brought out my weaknesses. Some of my confidence involved a lack of self-awareness, and some of my success involved poor work/life balance. My failures usually involved naivety (especially misplaced trust), and getting in over my head without understanding how or why. It was only when I was in an unhappy place that I sought out therapy and was referred for diagnosis.

      So I guess I feel like the benefits of not having been diagnosed in school eventually expired. If I’d been diagnosed in school, I think the stakes would have been lower, I would have more support while still living with family, and I would have spent a lot less time building castles out of sand and trying to be someone I really wasn’t.

    • I’d repost on ‘Rette moms. While there’s a lot of baby talk, some with older children read it.

    • Anonymous :

      Consider a social group therapy. They’re often offered through local psychologists offices, and they are particularly prevalent around back to school time so now is a good time to look. Also, research good sports for kids with ADHD. My son has it and some sports just don’t lend themselves to his diagnosis (things with multiple steps for example). He has done great with running groups, which has allowed him to meet and interact with other kids.

      This is an issue we are constantly working on. Individual therapy has been good for this too in terms of working through emotions/interactions/etc. Good luck

  17. Looking for wedding outfit advice. One of my friends is getting married in Saint Paul next week. It’s being held in a park, and the friend is generally more casual. I have this romper that I really like and would like to wear, but I’m hesitating because is a romper just too casual for a wedding? I linked to the romper below. I was thinking I’d style it with 3″ nude patent t-sandles (have) and a y-necklace (y-necklace yet to be bought). Thoughts?


    • I just kinda hate rompers. It reads as too short and too casual for me.

    • That seems really casual and really short. It looks like you’re going to brunch. For a wedding, you need closer to knee length and a true dress (or skirt), with some sort of detail that makes it more formal.

    • Woah do not wear romper with heels!!!

    • Rompers are shorts. Shorts are (generally) not appropriate for a wedding. Find something else to wear.

    • Which park? It seems like it’s too hot here for long sleeves. Cute romper though!

    • Aunt Jamesina :

      So I’m firmly on Team Rompers and Jumpsuits, and this one is really cute, but it’s just too short. I don’t think it reads as casual (if it were the same fabric, but a dress and more like mid-thigh or closer to the knee, I have a feeling that other posters would definitely find it wedding appropriate). I would find a dress this length too short for a wedding, also. It’s more appropriate for brunch or a night out.

      I have no issue with rompers or jumpsuits as formal wedding attire as long as it’s in a formal fabric and otherwise appropriate for the occasion. What’s a romper but a dress with bifurcated legs, anyway?I went to a wedding this winter where the bridesmaids wore different long dresses in jewel tones, and one of them wore a jumpsuit and it looked super chic. It’ll look dated in a few years, sure, but so will most things.

    • Just because your friend is casual doesn’t mean her wedding will be.

      I do not think that romper is appropriate for a wedding. I would also rethink 3″ heels for a wedding in a park.

    • Senior Attorney :

      It’s very cute and if it is a small casual wedding then perhaps it would be okay because at least in the photo it reads as a dress.

      But under no circumstances may you wear this extremely short garment with three inch heels unless you want to look like you are Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman or you are going clubbing.

    • Former Saint Paul resident. I think your outfit would work for casual park wedding. MN takes wedding casual to an extreme at many of the weddings I have attended. But you will sink into the dirt with any type of heel and be miserable and sad. Even if the wedding is at Como – you will still likely need to walk on grass/dirt at some point. No matter what you decide to wear, skip the heels or bring backup footwear.

    • I like it and think it’s pretty cute, but definitely not with heels. What about flat sandals?

    • Ah, thanks everyone! Most of you pretty much confirmed what was my true feelings – too casual because of the length, and possible romper-ness. If you have to ask, there’s probably a reason, right?

      And makes sense about the heels! I hadn’t actually tried it all on together – I do have some really cute black dressy flat sandals that I’ll wear with it in the future.

      And now I have to buy/rent a dress….

  18. anon a mouse :

    I posted late on the weekend thread, so re-upping — has anyone tried the Weight Watchers personal coaching plan? It’s much cheaper than a personal trainer/nutritionist. I can’t make WW meetings and am considering this for the extra accountability.

    • I’m doing it now, it’s ok. I tried a few coaches before I found one I click with. The timing is tricky because she seems to only work daytime hours and it’s sometimes hard for me to duck out to do the 15 minute phone call. She gives lots of tips and personalized weekly goals. I look forward to talking to her.

  19. I am attending an ashes burial this weekend. The funeral took place a while ago. This will be small, family only, with lunch afterwards. Should I wear a black dress? Or should I wear something closer to everyday clothes, but in muted colors? There’s no easy way to ask the family, and I’d feel uncomfortable asking them such a trivial question.

    • Where is it? Asking because my answer would be different if the ashes are to be buried in the middle of the woods or scattered of a yacht.

    • anon and on :

      I attended one of these last year, and people wore a variety of things – separates in neutral colors or dresses, sportcoats for the guys. It wasn’t as formal as the funeral.

    • Veronica Mars :

      I think you would be safe with a navy dress. It’s dark enough you won’t stick out if everyone is in black. It’s also a little less formal in case people are more casual.

    • I wore a black knit wrap dress to my grandmother’s ashes burial, which was at the cemetery where her husband was buried. Agree with the other comments here that it was less formal than the funeral, but folks still wore mostly muted colors/respectful clothing–I believe it was a mix of black/gray/navy, but honestly I also don’t really remember since I was in mourning. I don’t think burials are generally the type of event where folks are really paying attention to each others’ fashion choices unless you’re wearing something outrageous (I say this as a way to hopefully ease your worries about what other people are thinking, not to sound judgey!). My condolences on your loss.

      • Anonymous :

        I’d say a lot depends on the family and the region. At an outdoor family event in August in my region, the heat, humidity, and wind would rule — nobody would be wearing dark or black clothes or be concerned with formality.

  20. I have brown hair with highlights that are growing out. This was my first set of highlights, and I noticed more gray this morning so time to figure out what to do with my hair next. Apologies for the dim question, but can you get more highlights layered on top of what you already had? Now that we’re approaching the end of summer (sob) I’m wondering if I should get rid of the lighter color and go a bit darker again. Basically – internet strangers, please tell me what to do with my hair without looking at a photo of me! Alternatively, hair inspo welcome :)

    • Yes, they can focus a bit more on the roots. Highlights are supposed to have some variation in them which makes them more forgiving for regrowth purposes. You can also ask for lowlights if you want to tone down the color a little bit headed into fall.

    • You can definitely get more highlights layered on top. For the highlights, the stylist will likely just not pull the color all the way to your ends because the ends are already lightened. You could do a mixture of highlights and low lights in order to gradually darken a bit more for fall.

    • Yes, your hairdresser should be able to weave in more highlights so it all comes out looking pretty seamless.

      • +1. Sometimes in fall I add some reddish highlights in addition to the more blondish ones that I already have.

    • If I understand you right, I’m in the same boat. I have been alternating appointments between a root touch up if the grays are bad and then next time do highlights again. The root touch up is cheaper than the highlights.
      If it’s just a handful of grays, I get an over the counter root touch up kit, I think it’s Clairol and then use that until my next highlight appt.

  21. Just got the email that I was added as an author to an abstract for what would be my first conference presentation! They won’t know until November if it’s been accepted for the conference, but my goodness this feels like a big step!

  22. business casual fall? :

    I work in a business (very) casual office in a southern state. I’m getting my fall wardrobe in shape and am in need of hosiery advice. I love, love, love black tights, but I have a hard time justifying wearing them in late September when it’s 90 out. Does anyone have any brilliant ideas for transitional legwear?

    • I wear bare legs until black tights season. If it’s 90 out why would you wear hose in a casual office? I wear sheer pantyhose a handful of times a year.

    • nude fishnets?

    • My office sounds similar to yours -Southern, business casual with emphasis on casual- and I go bare legged through October. If it’s not even cold enough for a jacket or sweater, I’m not going to wear tights.
      I do adjust my colors for Fall/Winter though, and bring in more black, grey, and burgundy to accompany my bare legs.

    • I wear hose year round because I feel more comfortable and put together in them. Office is air conditioned, so the heat is really about 10 minutes a day at the most (walking to and from). No one notices or comments. Sheers, patterns, and of course black tights. Sheers and patterns in the Summer, and then black become the uniform in late fall/winter. Also appreciate hose, because I never have to worry about cold offices in Summer or Winter. Sheers have also greatly improved in comfort since I first started wearing.

  23. Anybody else feel like boycotting Google from today forward? I’m just beyond fed up.

    Google is my home page. I’ve had my Gmail since 2003, and I think I’m going to do the unthinkable and try Yahoo….

    • why?

    • Why? Also no.

    • I wish I could. Google makes me uncomfortable for a variety of reasons, but everything else I’ve tried is just so, so terrible by comparison.

    • Why? Genuinely curious.

    • Because of one employee’s leaked post??? you are going to boycott google because of something one employee thought?

    • pugsnbourbon :

      If you mean the screed on gender written by an anonymous and deeply misguided engineer… from what I can understand the writer is mid-level employee and higher-ups at the company have come out pretty strongly against it. His pet theories aren’t endorsed by the company; whether they’re symptomatic of issues within rank-and-file employees remains to be seen. I’m satisfied by Google’s response.

    • This garbage: https://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-diversity-screed-1797564320

      Discussed politely here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/08/06/a-google-engineer-wrote-that-women-may-be-genetically-unsuited-for-tech-jobs-women-wrote-back/?utm_term=.5a7723154a47

      • Oh. No. Not at all. Men are scum. I’m sure every company has them. You’re dreaming if you think yahoo is better.

      • Don’t you care a whole lot more about Google’s reaction, from which I’ve read has been quite good? Like Anonymous @ 11:40 said, you’re not going to find *any* company that doesn’t have dudes like that working for them.

    • Maybe this is my perspective as an educator, but I think the reaction to this e-mail has been really harmful. The guy was wrong and wrongheaded, but he was also clearly honestly wrong (i.e., he actually believed that what he was saying was true). Reacting with “BLASPHEMY” instead of actually engaging his bad, sexist science or the logic of his argument can only reinforce his view that Google is an “ideological echo chamber”, and ostracizing him only lessens the chance that he’ll learn or change his mind. Everyone who agrees with him (=extremely many men) will also feel like they remain correct, but that they are being censored on ideological grounds.

      • nasty woman :

        I understand where you’re coming from here, but you’ve also got to understand that people are really tired of always having to “play nice” and “engage with this dialogue” in a calm, quiet manner lest we anger someone. Stomping your feet and saying that because someone didn’t respond to your s*xism or racism in a nice enough way you’re going to dismiss their message is tone policing and, when it comes from a person in a privileged position, simply a way to reinforce that privileged position. It lets him off the hook for being wrong and maintaining wrong ideas in the face of contrary arguments because his fee-fees were hurt. The burden is ALWAYS placed on marginalized people to politely and clearly explain over and over again why being a bigot is wrong. UGH.

        It’s not like he said one single new or original thing in that letter that hasn’t been refuted over and over and over again. I’ll give him credit for being comprehensive, though- it was sort of like a “greatest hits” of the anti-diversity screeds I’ve seen.

        If he’d spent the same amount of time reading contrary arguments on a feminist website instead of writing that screed (and it’s obvious that he was willing to put a lot of time and effort into this) he’d have educated himself.

      • Agreed! I think there’s a knee jerk reaction to shutting down all offensive speech which only leads to more resentful, offensive thoughts, in my opinion.

      • Marie Curie :

        +2. If we tell people that some ideas are too dangerous to speak then they are nursed and spread in private. Open and respectful disagreement is much more likely to effect change. I’d rather be able to respond to this kind of argument than have it whispered behind my back.

    • Yahoo has a bad history of data breaches. I understand not wanting to be besties with Google at the moment, but I don’t recommend Yahoo as plan B.

  24. leaving litigation :

    Reposting from Friday as I was too late for many responses…

    How many of you have left litigation for a different practice area – transactional work or something such as elder law or estate planning? I am in a small firm and have the opportunity to switch practice areas within my firm and get almost entirely out of litigation. I have two young children and a spouse whose job does not allow him to be very flexible/available to shuttle children around. One of the big factors in my decision is that I have been in practice almost 10 years, exclusively in litigation, and I know next to nothing about the new practice area. I will have a very experienced mentor to train under, but it still feels scary to start over. For those of you who left litigation but stayed in a traditional lawyer role, why did you do it? At what point in your practice? Pros/cons? Am I placing too much weight on my lack of knowledge?

    • After 3 full years of litigation, very transactional (securities and corporate governance) and I love it! I did it because I liked lawyering but not litigation. I just didn’t see myself wanting to fight everybody all the time, over stupid things like discovery requests and responses.

  25. What the Health :

    Have we discussed What the Health here yet? A couple of my friends have gone vegan because of it so I finally watched it over the weekend. It has so many logical inconsistencies and so much bad journalism that I have trouble taking it seriously. Thoughts?

    • can you explain what you think are instances of logical inconsistencies/bad journalism?

      • What the Health :

        The calls to various agencies were seriously eye roll-worthy. He calls some random customer service person/receptionist, launches into a lengthy question, then gets all huffy when they don’t immediately have an answer.

        Cows are bad because they eat plants that contain toxins like pesticides. Completely ignores the fact that most produce available for human consumption has the same issues. And if you’re talking about pollution of the groundwater, even produce you grow in your own garden will have the same issues.

        Because one pig farm is no good, all pig farms are no good and you’re hurting your community if you eat any bacon ever. Similar themes with fish. Generally presenting things in a really sensationalist way.

        Since I’m being so negative I’ll include some things I agreed with: we need better education about how food affects our health, the sources of that information shouldn’t be funded by Big Food, food production needs to be seriously overhauled to limit negative environmental impact on our communities, regulations regarding food should be driven by concerns for health not profit margins… I’m sure there are other things too.

        • YES! The calls to the various agencies were so ridiculous. And I agree with your other points as well. I’m actually sympathetic to the whole premise, but I thought the documentary was not good at all.

    • I watched it last night. It’s a documentary, not a science article. I didn’t expect loads of explanations or citations. So basically I thought it was very interesting and covered about what I expected it to cover. Not the best documentary I’ve ever seen, but not the worst either.

    • I don’t know that one. I know Forks Over Knives, which I think has a better reputation. I saw it critiqued for relying so heavily on mouse studies. (Mice do really well on low-fat, high carbohydrate, grain-based vegan diets, and do really poorly when fed lots of meat and animal fat. But this may be because they are mice!)

      I think eating vegan is so modern and so counter cultural that it’s hard to commit to without a lot of argumentative scaffolding (sometimes more than exists). But some people clearly thrive on vegan diets. I do get upset when I see arguments that needing vitamin B12 from animal sources is a myth, since I knew someone who believed this and became deficient. But there are vegan and vegan-supportive dietitians who can help people get off on the right start.

    • Can you elaborate? A family member won’t be quiet about it. He also thinks Alex jones is a journalist so I just can’t stomach anything he gets behind.

    • Senior Attorney :

      Haven’t seen this film, but I did low fat vegan a la www.drmcdougall.com for a year or so and I loved it. I think it can work spectacularly well for some people. And I don’t think there’s much question it’s better for the planet.

      I’m not doing it any more because my husband loves his meat and eating together is important to us, but I don’t poo poo it at all.

      • I don’t know, I question that everybody going vegan is better for the planet. Yes, eating more plants may be better than the current system of factory farming, but it’s not better than the ideal of sustainable, local farming/meat production. Look into Joel Salatin, read Michael Pollan, etc.

        • Actually it is. Not eating beef would have a big impact on global warming:


        • Sustainable local beef farming for everyone requires more land than is available for the population of the world. So not everyone can do it. Growing enough plants to sustain a person can happen in a much smaller land area.

    • Anon for this :

      Ha! My husband’s trying veganism because of this. Not so much because he was swayed by the documentary but because he has some health issues that other diets haven’t fixed and wants to see if Vegan could be the magic bullet. While I’m a little annoyed and eye rolly, he does the cooking and shopping so if he wants to attempt vegan, so be it. I’ll be a meat eater for breakfast and lunch.

  26. I am looking for TED Talk recommendations that deal with loss/grief/vulnerability. I am having a particularly tough time moving forward from my last breakup (which occurred on Fourth of July), and I’m feeling very defeated and silly. I feel like diving into some self-help material might help.

    • Hi, no recommendations, but I just wanted to say I’m sorry you’re having a tough time. I am the queen of taking way too long to get over a break-up (a month is no where near long enough for me!!!!), and I promise you that eventually it won’t feel like this anymore. As Senior Attorney is always saying, sometimes the only way out is through.

      For what it’s worth, I find gratitude journals really helpful when the thought of doing the other conventional post-break-up activities (go to the gym! spend time with friends! learn a new hobby!) felt like climbing Everest.

    • Sloan Sabbith :

      Brene Brown on vulnerability.

      Sending much love.

    • alexisfaye :

      ACT is good for dealing with crappy feelings that must be felt.


      Love Brene Brown. She has a good book and also https://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability

    • anon a mouse :

      Anything by Brene Brown; she talks a lot about vulnerability. Her audiobooks are good too.

    • Check out Sarah Blondin’s podcasts/meditations. Even if you’re not into meditating, they’re very easy to get into and honestly speak right to my core. Learning to Surrender, Accepting Change, and When We Must Endure are some personal favorites, but honestly they’re all good.


      Also, You Are a [email protected] is an awesome book if you haven’t read it.

    • I don’t know if she’s done a TED talk on the topic, but Sheryl Sandberg’s “Option B” is otherwise exactly what you are looking for, I think.

    • right there with you! :

      I’m late to this but just wanted to send love! I also went through a break up (technically I was the one broken up with) that weekend. So I’m right there with you!!! Hugs and strength!

  27. Someone was looking for slightly fancy company dishes here recently, so wanted to share that Bloomingdales is having a big home sale and has some nice white Villeroy & Boch dishes on super markdown – $99/3 piece setting for 4. My mom’s V&B dishes look amazing year after year and this seems like a good deal. The link is too long but you can search for Villeroy & Boch Cellini 12-Piece Dinnerware Set. Just FYI.

    • I’ve had a set of V&B dishes as my every day china for about 10 years. They still look great. They’re a good medium weight so you can use them every day but they don’t look out of place for nicer dinners.

  28. Wanted to buy myself something significant to mark a milestone. Budget 2k(ish). What would you get? I want it to be something I use/see daily — and for once in my life something with a little “flash.” I’m not big on purses or shoes; jewelry is always nice but then I wonder how much would I wear a particular piece. All I can think of is a watch (and I do love watches) – but are there “luxury” watches for women that are worth it?

    • Oh man. If I was you I’d have a Cartier tank watch on my wrist so quickly. Congrats on your milestone!

    • Watch! I love my Tag Hueuer. It’s a $6k watch but it was a discontinued style, so I got it for $2k from a large regional jeweler. Before that find I was looking at a Cartier that was second hand, but in mint condition for about $2,500.

    • pugsnbourbon :

      Right-hand ring? Maybe an estate piece?

      • +1

        I’d get a vintage or vintage-inspired right hand ring.

      • I had a custom ring made at a local, woman-owned jewelry store. I picked it up last week and so far have worn it every single day except when I went to the beach.

    • I think “worth it” is a very relative concept when you’re talking about expensive watches or expensive anything really. I have a Longines watch that I got as a gift many years ago, I wear it every day and it still makes me happy. It’s in your price range. I’d say for me it was “worth it” (granted, I didn’t buy it) because I have every intention of wearing it forever but everyone is different. I’d also say that I have not had this experience with expensive bags because they just look worn after a while no matter what I do (exception being non-everyday purses like a little evening clutch or whatever). I think the thing to decide is if you want something for everyday or something for special occasions that will make you happy when you do wear it. I have a pair of earrings that I love that I got for a milestone bday and even though I don’t always wear them, they always make me happy when I do. You could also go for a more subtle but classic bit of everyday jewelry like a cartier trinity ring or something along those lines, but that doesn’t really have much flash so maybe not what you have in mind.

    • Veronica Mars :

      I think it’s worth it if it really fits your lifestyle and will be something you love to wear. I wanted a diamonds by the yard style bracelet for years before I finally took the plunge, and now that I have it, I wear it everyday. I sleep in it, shower in it, and basically only take it off when I’m traveling. You can get one at any pricepoint, although mine is .10ct each, .50ctw from whiteflash, in platinum. Retails for $1800, I got mine secondhand for around $900.

    • Nice diamond studs. They go with everything.

    • Congrats! I had about half your budget, but marked a milestone with some Tiffany earrings. I wear mine daily and they’re part of my personal uniform. They’re unique enough (not another pair of pearls) to remind me of my accomplishment. Enjoy!

    • Anonymous :

      Watch! I think you could easily get an Omega.

  29. Texas bound :

    What’s business casual for a Dallas office park type office right now? Headed down later this week and not sure how to dress for the WALL OF HEAT outside and the cranking AC inside. Layers? Pants? Skirt? 3/4 sleeve top + ankle pants and run from car to office?

    Thanks! –a Boston chick

    • I’m in DC, where it’s usually hot, though not this year. Ankle pants, sleeveless top with blazer. In the car to/from work I kick off my shoes and obviously the blazer. Do not wear a padded bra – they are the worst in the South.

    • In Texas it’s hot outside but VERY cold inside. I recommend layers or bring a wrap.

      Wrap dress, ankle pants/appropriate sleevless or short sleeved top/blazer, skirt/top.

    • Anonymous :

      Anything you want, really – shocking what passes for business casual here. But agree with an extra layer, although you won’t need to run from car to office. When I go out at lunch or on the drive home, I usually don’t run the AC since I’ve been in frozen temps for several hours.

    • PatsyStone :

      I think skirt and cardigan/top layer works well and dresses are my jam for Texas heat.

  30. Anon to avoid outing anyone: looking for advice on how best to deal with a complex family situation involving domestic violence.

    My cousin and his wife have several children (oldest is a young teen). They’ve had a difficult marriage for a number of years, and we’ve all suspected that divorce was coming (in fact, they’re no longer living together). We (my nuclear family – parents, sibs, etc.) recently learned that things have gotten significantly worse in the last few weeks – really vicious arguments – and we’ve been worried that the situation would get violent because my cousin has always been fairly volatile, and grew up in an abusive home and thus had an abusive parent for a role model. (Note: we weren’t aware when he was a child that there was domestic violence in the home, but found out later after my aunt left her husband and my cousins were adults.)

    Unfortunately, those fears have been borne out in the last few days. My cousin’s wife is physically unharmed, but the police were called. My cousin was not arrested. I wish he had been, because I’m worried that he seems to be spiraling and at least time in jail might have interrupted that spiral.

    My cousin’s wife, with whom we’re fairly close, hasn’t yet told her parents what is going on. We are trying to be as supportive as possible, but aren’t sure of the best way to do that. She doesn’t want to leave him because she says he’s sick and needs help (I agree, but think her focus needs to be her own safety and that of her children). Meanwhile, I’m worried that he will kill her or himself (he has a lot of guns and a hot temper, which is a bad combination, and the situation seems to be escalating). We’re not close enough distance-wise for her to come stay with any of us since she needs to keep working.

    I think of myself as an educated and with-it person, but I don’t know the best way to help. She needs a lawyer and a restraining order, right? Is there anything more that can be done to keep her safe? They aren’t in divorce proceedings, so I don’t know if any kind of custody order can be entered to keep him away from the children. He’s in the military – can his command intervene?

    I love them both, but obviously my first priority right now is protecting her and the kids, especially since she’s not telling her parents what’s going on. Her family is a different race than ours and her parents objected to their marriage and I think she’s afraid of the “I told you so” response if she goes to them for help.

    • Should add that they’re ostensibly not living together because they’re working in different cities. They didn’t separate legally or anything like that, so no initial steps toward divorce have been taken.

    • Anonymous :

      How much input do you actually have into this situation? You say your priority is to protect her and her kids. Are you the one who will actually be taking any of this action?

      • I’ve been asked for my advice, both as the only lawyer in the family and as the designated “person who has her sh*t together.”

    • Anon Family Law Atty :

      Whoah. Yeah. She needs to prioritize her and the kids or CPS will prioritize the kids when things get out of control. She’s GOT to practice some safety planning. Guns? He** to the no, she’s got to protect herself. Scared for her and I don’t know her.

      1. Military protection order. His command can legally keep his sorry a** on base. She should call them OR the Family Advocacy Center. Check out the Battered Women’s Justice Project military stuff for information. His command will not be okay with this and, if they know what’s good for them, will act fast.
      2. Civil protection order. She needs both. MPOs don’t apply outside base. Make sure it covers the kids.
      3. A lawyer who is experienced in military law and military divorce. It gets complicated fast with benefits and tricare.
      4. Counseling for her and the kids.

      If you post an email I’ll respond in depth. But she has got to act to protect herself and her kids. Now.

    • She probably doesn’t need a lawyer at this point. Most courts have self-service kiosks and free legal help for restraining orders. A civil protective order is not going to help though if she refuses to leave. If both parties have a right to the property, there would first have to be a hearing before he is forced out.

      His command can definitely intervene. Based upon just her accusations, the commander can force him to move into the barracks.

    • At the risk of hearing “I told you so”, her parents NEED to know. God forbid but if your cousin actually does hurt her and/or her children- I am sure her family would have wanted to know so they either had a chance to intervene or not. I would 1000% urge her to tell her family, since its escalated to this level. Him being sick and needing help is understandable to want to stay but as a mother, her kids come first. THEIR safety and THEIR protection from being exposed to domestic incidents and a potentially dangerous parent.

  31. Mildly concerned about the post on Friday that said pumps are outdated. I’m fairy young, just purchased a pair of black patent leather pointed toe Cole Haan pumps and was planning on purchasing another plain leather in an almond toe. I interned in government, work in banking, and am trying to get back into government. I’ve noticed some of the women in my office (not all) wear open toe heeled sandals which I have no interest in wearing. Will I look old fashioned or outdated in black pumps?

    • I have almond toe black leather Cole Haan pumps and love them. I see pumps of all shapes at my office (DC trade association), and I would definitely not say pumps are old fashioned or outdated. Open toe heeled sandals will be gone by fall anyway.

    • Anonymous :

      Please don’t take your style cues from a couple of chance remarks on a forum when you don’t have any way of knowing how stylish or knowledgeable the posters actually are. You may simply have heard their personal opinions, which has no bearing on whether the people around you will think you’re old fashioned.

    • No. There is a difference between “classic” and “outdated”. Black pumps are classic. Are you going to look like you’re on the cutting edge of fashion with them? Probably not, but you work in banking, not at Vogue.

    • Anonymous :

      I think of banking and government as conservative, so black pumps sound perfect to me even if it were true that pumps look outdated in other contexts.

    • Cole haan’s are amazing, even if just for the quilting inside the shoe. Personally I wouldnt care what anyone says. I wear whatever I want not whats trendy. But thats just me!

    • Wear pumps in a conservative field.
      Following every trends is largely not a good options for those of us in banking, law, academics, medicine or government.

  32. tailor/seamstress in NYC :

    Does anyone have any recommendations for a good tailor/seamstress in NYC? Thanks in advance!

  33. I love the color and the shape of this sweater. It’s going to be a great fall piece for my office wear wardrobe!

  34. Nice color.

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