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Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Cap-Sleeve Side-Tie Sheath Dress

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A woman wearing a green gathered tie waist sheath dress

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

This cap-sleeve Tahari ASL sheath has such a beautiful shape, I might have to buy it in every color. It doesn’t hurt that the available colors are so pretty that it makes it nearly impossible to choose.

This forest green version would look great with a black blazer and boots all winter, but the red would really shine at holiday parties. You can’t lose!

The dress is $129 at Nordstom and comes in sizes 2–16.

Sales of note for 2/14/25 (Happy Valentine's Day!):

  • Nordstrom – Winter Sale, up to 60% off! 7850 new markdowns for women
  • Ann Taylor – Up to 40% off your full-price purchase — and extra 60% off sale
  • Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + 15% off (readers love their suiting as well as their silky shirts like this one)
  • Boden – 15% off new season styles
  • Eloquii – 300+ styles $25 and up
  • J.Crew – 40% of your purchase – prices as marked
  • J.Crew Factory – 50% off entire site and storewide + extra 50% off clearance
  • Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 40% off last-chance styles
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – Flash sale ending soon – markdowns starting from $15, extra 70% off all other markdowns (final sale)

204 Comments

  1. Thoughts on traveling to Prague, Vienna, or Budapest in January? I come from a cold city so I am prepared for winter weather. Or are these places best experienced in warmer months?

    1. I have lived in Prague and Budapest. Winter is cold, but dry here. I think Budapest is same in winter vs summer, but you actually avoid the crowds which were horrible this summer. You can do outdoor walks, do spa, enjoy restaurants. And you may even see some blue sky.
      Prague is similar, but more grey vs Budapest in winter. I enjoy Prague more in spring/fall, but again, you can still have nice walks in the city, plenty of locals escape to mountains to ski or hike during winter weekends.
      Vienna is 1hr drive from where I used to libe and it was also nice in winter.
      Summary: If you don’t mind cold, I would go & enjoy.
      If you want any tips, post your email and I can send some.

    2. I did that exact trip (+Bratislava) in November 2018 and had a blast.

      It was cold and gray and got dark early but the friend I went with and I are both from New York so it wasn’t any colder, grayer, or darker than home. It was before Christmas markets were up, so unfortunately we missed those.

      We did have plenty of mulled wine to keep us warm and enjoyed having smaller crowds.

    3. I’ve done it over Christmas and New Years and once in January with my dad and it was fun! We just planned for mellow nights as it was a bit cold for our California selves.

    4. That sounds like an ideal trip to me! Fewer crowds and Europe in winter is charming (Also, in a cold city and love wintertime). Also, for Vienna in particular, I have watched the PBS New Year’s Celebration in Vienna almost every year since I was a kid and it seems beautiful that time of year.

    5. I did a trip to Prague in late January and it was lovely. It was cool, but not freezing overcast which sets off the city nicely, and there were few tourists to contend with. I highly recommend it. Budapest was also on my list.

    6. I love all three of these cities but would select Vienna and Budapest for a winter trip, and would actually add Salzburg instead of Prague. Budapest is generally bright and blue in the winter, while the skies in Prague are rather grey. Prague is best in the spring and fall. Can recommend the restaurants Mazel Tov and Koleves in Budapest, and my favorite spa is the Lukacs baths. However in winter, if it snows, the rooftop of Rudas is fabulous because you can look out over the city while sitting in a hot tub.

    7. In Budapest, we had a wonderful experience with private tour guide “Melinda K.” at toursbylocals dot com. Highly recommend!

  2. I have a dress like this and always struggle how to wear it to my workplace where we need sleeves. The tie belt doesn’t look great under a blazer, right? Any suggestions I am missing?

    1. It may frump it up a tad but I like long sweaters like the JCrew ones that are beltless. Then I do think that the dress benefits from having waist definition.

    2. I have a dress like this from Boden and do put it under a blazer, but the tie is also able to go in the middle so it’s not lumpy on the side.

      1. I think we have the same dress! You don’t feel like it looks weird with the tie sticking out from in between the blazer? Maybe I am overthinking this.

        1. Different Anon here, I think it looks great – a tie in the middle of a blazer. Sort of an elongating element. Just don’t tie a bow.

    3. I wear this look with hip-length v-neck cardigans as they hang a little more open than jewel-neck cardigans. If you can’t scoot the tie more towards the middle, they do tend to look awkwardly lumpy under a more structured top.

      Alternative is layering a thin blouse (silky) or turtleneck (a la JCrew tissue) underneath.

    4. I finally figures out that nothing looks quite right with dresses like this and now only buy them if there is some sort of sleeve.

    5. A collarless blazer without buttons works well with things like this. I think it’s the J Crew going out blazer that’s often recommended here?

  3. HAve you bought furniture from Castlery? Im not familiar with the brand/store, but it keeps popping up in my feeds. I like one of their dining table sets, just not sure if it will hold up. Background, we have had a cra ppy table and chairs for years while the kids were young and are finally, finally ready to get something nice. The problem is that there are so many options and I am totally overwhelmed. Any advice on how/where to buy a dining table and chairs, esp what key things to look for in terms of quality. thank you!

    1. I bought a credenza from Castlery and it’s really nice quality and I’ve gotten lots of compliments on it.

    2. Buy second hand. Find local second hand shops or look online. It’s the best way to get high quality.

    3. I bought the Theo round table from them and I love it. Holding up great, looks gorgeous.

    4. Second hand or world market. We bought our table and chairs at world market for a steal. Everything’s solid wood. We’ve sanded and refinished the top of the table after lots of kid wear, and it looks new again.

  4. Just had my hand slapped over something at work. Rightfully so. I made a silly mistake but still not a fun start to the day.

      1. this is a common metaphor in my world – meaning that you were called out, scolded, etc.

        1. Thanks to you and Cat for explaining. I’ve officially handled too many employment cases now.

          1. LOL, same here as a labor lawyer. I have dealt with more than one non-metaphorical slaps in the workplace.

    2. Guh I hate it when that happens. I’m still pretty new at my workplace and used the wrong term – in an internal meeting – and got pretty sternly corrected. Nothing to do but shake it off!

  5. Ugh. I’m in consulting and was recently put on an all male team. The team communication is poor, I’m constantly left off meetings and emails, and my thoughts are largely dismissed (am juniorish but not the most junior on the team and the project type is new to me so I don’t necessarily know the “norms”). I don’t get any feedback or mentoring or have a defined role on the team. Hopefully I just have to work with this team for another couple months (it’s also not my only project, thank god, doing super well elsewhere). Any advice for how to get through a project like this? The project partners and leads are part of the problem fyi so can’t go to them.

    1. Know that this isn’t about anything you’re doing, or not doing. Get through the next few months without letting this ding your self-esteem; doesn’t sound like it’s worth that. Was your role clear at the outset? If not, that may be something to consider and/or clarify in the future.

    3. I think it’s almost impossible to change these dynamics so if it’s a short-term thing (which a few months is in the grand scheme), just keep your head down, do the best work you can in the conditions, and actively network so your next project is better.

  6. Best ways to keep a secure spare key outside the house? We’re looking into keyless entry but DH is hemming and hawing over the options. In the meantime I need some solution for the cleaners and dog walkers and so on, and I’d prefer not to give all of these people their own key (had a bad experience getting the key back when I had to fire someone). I have the kind of lock box realtors use but I don’t love that look. What do you all use?

    1. Realtor lockbox, just put it somewhere less conspicuous than hanging on the front door. Side or garage entry, railing, etc.

    2. I give anyone who needs regular access keys. If there’s an issue, just change the locks – it’s not that expensive.

    3. You realize that anyone who has access to a key even temporarily can easily run out and make a copy don’t you? You aren’t necessarily improving security by giving only partial access to a key. Either you trust them with a key or you don’t.

    4. We have keyless entry. It is amazing. All our people have their own code which we can revoke at any time. We literally got it same day a day after moving in, we hired a guy to come change our locks, he suggested keyless, he had them on hand, wa la. Instead of needing to come up with two separate solutions, I would just expedite that process.

      1. This is what I would do. If DH can’t make a decision by Friday, call a locksmith and tell them you want a keyless entry installed. They will happily supply the device and install it when they come out. Honestly they are all so similar there’s nothing to hem and haw over beyond maybe an hour of internet research.
        FYI the word you are looking for is “voila.” I can see how it could sound like “wa la” if you’ve never seen it written out!

      2. This, this, this.

        You can pick one up at a hardware store and install it yourself if you are a tiny bit handy. It is not a major expense or a major commitment. (And I mean a tiny bit)

        In addition to giving you better security, it also allows you to know exactly what time people arrived and left – which is handy for dog, walkers, and pet sitters.

    5. I switched to keyless entry and it’s amazing. Get the August lock. It’s $200. It’s easy to install (I did it myself). Don’t wait. There’s nothing to hem and haw over.

      2. I love our August lock! It’s great for pet sitters, guests, etc.
        Most unexpected perk: We live outside New Orleans and evacuated for Hurricane Ida. After the storm, once cell phone service was restored, we were able to give a cousin and a friend access to our house through the August app. The lock uses Bluetooth and batteries, so it does not require power. They were able to check on our house, and one of them threw away the contents of our refrigerator and freezer (which I had mostly put in trash bags and put back into the refrigerator before the storm).

    6. Do you have a garage? Can you do keyless entry that way until you get one on your door?

    7. We have a wall mounted lockbox, smaller than a realtor lock box, behind the house. It’s tiny and only holds a single key. It has a flap that comes down over the lock dials, so you don’t really even know what it is – it might be a tiny electrical box or something. I will see if I can find a link.

      1. Key Lock Box for House Key, 4-Digit Combination Code Wall Mount Lock Box, Key Storage Lock Box for Outside & Inside, Weatherproof Key Safe Box for Home, Business(2 Pack) https://a.co/d/bTcOScg

        I can’t find our exact one but this is what it looks like behind the flap. It’s tiny, can only fit a single key, not a whole ring.

        It has really saved my bacon more than once when I accidentally locked myself out. My kids used it regularly when they were walking home from middle/high school. Neither of them could ever remember to take their key.

  7. Going on a trekk in Nepal in a few weeks and looking for hiking gear recs! We got hiking pants shoes and socks, but not sure what else is needed other than standard workout clothes. Any favorites?

    1. ETA we are new to this, never gone on more than a 6 hour hike! But very fit and going with people who do this a lot. So any tips on what to pack would be appreciated. I am a bit nervous about doing a couple day trekk.

      1. Do you have someone else carrying your overnight gear? Either way, I’d hit up REI. Depending on the weather, I’d bring:
        light rain jacket, medium / thin puffy jacket, base layer (long or short sleeve), hat and thin gloves.

        What’s the water situation? I’d invest in a hydration reservoir (personally, I have the Gregory brand 3L, I recently tried but hated the Camelbak – it always leaked), then a backpack that fits you well. If someone else is carrying most of your gear, I’d go with a 20-ish liter daypack.

        Do you need a first aid kit? Headlamps? Poles? Food? All overnight backpacking essentials? Without knowing more about your situation, it’s hard to give better recommendations.

    2. Do you have poles? If you’re doing any serious elevation change they’re very nice to have.

      1. Definitely poles. If you don’t have one, I’d get a pack and hydration bladder–easier than water bottles. Test it out before hand to make sure it doesn’t leak (can’t recommend Gregory’s hydration bladder as it definitely leaked on me. Osprey’s seem fine. Camelbak is a classic). Also, even if fit, if you haven’t done long hikes before, I’d take a knee brace and/or IT band brace just in case you need it.

        Also, you should probably try to get in some hikes before you go just to test out gear and see how it goes, especially if the boots are new. You’re going to want to break those in. My rule of thumb is long hikes and trips involving a flight should not be the first place you try new stuff.

        1. 100% agree to test. For example, we did a five week hiking trip and I found out after about a week that my backpack was more comfortable with water bottles than the hydration bladder. However many socks you’ve packed, pack more. A really good rain jacket makes a huge difference. Being wet is not good.

        2. + a million to test. And try to test under as similar conditions as you can get locally (pack fully loaded on a long day hike, similar elevation gain, etc). Some issues just aren’t evident at first, and it’s much better to get them sorted before your big trip.

          I imagine that Nepal at this time of year is quite cold. Make sure you have good, quick-drying layers and can add/remove easily so you don’t get sweaty. Sweat is a problem because being wet when it’s very cold out can quickly turn dangerous.

          Have you talked with the leaders of the trip? They should provide advice on what to pack and how to prepare. If they don’t/can’t provide thorough advice, I’d rethink the trip.

    3. I took a NOLS wilderness first aid course (they often have them at an REI) and could not recommend it highly enough. Every week people die of exposure and poor planning and this will help you or someone else when you may be the only person around.

      1. This! Even if you’re with people who have done this kind of trekking before, a NOLS wilderness first aid class will help make you more self-sufficient and calm overall. It will also put on your radar all kinds of injuries you’ve never considered before, which can be bracing! Have a great trip!

    4. Altitude sickness would be my biggest worry. It’s not very correlated to fitness level.

      1. Yes – you can get a prescription for Diamox before you leave. Make sure you read the instructions to start it ahead of time.

    5. If you have a guide, ask them for recommendations. Depending on the weather and altitude, it can be very cold. If you are staying in a hut, expect very minimal accommodations. Extra socks and gloves to change when they get wet for sure. You need to know what kind of conditions you will be facing, it’s hard for us to say. Hiking gear varies a lot.

    6. Feminine hygiene products, unless you are 100% sure you will not need them. See my post last week about my hiking sock emergency.

    7. Agree with the recs here. Would also suggest smart wool (or similar wool) base layers, even a smart wool sports bra. They are lightweight, warm and will keep their warmth if you get wet/sweaty. Also, they are amazing in that they feel fresh and not stinky even after days of wear on a trail. Love them for cold, multi-day hikes!

    8. Basing this on my experience in Patagonia and the (European) Alps:
      Merino underwear to keep you warm and dry. I had 3 tops and 5 bottoms from Icebreaker.
      Short and longsleeve tech t-shirts, I layered them so that I could adjust temperature. I re-used my running vests and added long-sleeve merino t-shirts.
      Shell zipper jacket.
      Windproof, waterproof jacket.
      Merino leggings, layered with hiking pants (mine were Fjallraven). Layered with rain pants if needed to protect from rain or wind.
      Buff, hairband, cap and gloves.
      One set of pyjamas (i used merino leggings and a longsleeve tshirt) and sleeping socks.
      Sturdy backpack. Mine was Fjallraven. I also had a small backpack for when we were doing light/short hikes.
      Sunglasses.
      Lots of SPF50 and Aquaphor for lips.
      Headlamp. Water bottle. I also had self-filtering water bottle.
      The best hiking shoes you can get. They need to support your weight and the weight of your backpack and they need to have excellent grip. Make sure these are well broken into and I wore 2 layers of socks to prevent any blisters. My shoes were Hanwag.
      I also brought my trusted meds – analgesics, decongestants, allergy meds, fem hygiene products.
      I would say research where you go (altitude, weather) and you will do (hiking, climbing, river crossing) and your sleeping/porter arrangements. This will dictate your preparation and gear.
      Your tourguide should be able to give you a good comprehensive list as well.
      I also have a raincoat which can be thrown over you and the backpack to protect from rain. Saved me a few times.
      Impregnation spray for your gear (or buy at location).
      A whistle (may be incorporates in your backpack).

  8. At the risk of reigniting the “is my water bottle professional” debate – it’s ok to drink water out of a pint glass at home while on Zoom calls, right? I have so many pint glasses acquired from various beer tastings that I haven’t needed separate, designated water glasses. A colleague recently commented that he’s glad he’s not the only one drinking out of pint glasses in meetings, and when I asked what he meant, he said he was worried it was unprofessional. He’s a peer and a nice person, it wasn’t said in a snarky way. I have never paid any attention to other people’s water drinking habits nor did it occur to me that my own water drinking habits might be perceived as unprofessional. And as I type this out I’m low key mad at him for making me think of this. Fwiw, I don’t drink out of my coffee mug that says “this might be bourbon” while on videoconferences. Thoughts?

    1. Hopelessly unprofesh. I feel like a crystal goblet is the only correct choice. Make sure you can see the monogram.

    2. I like looking at people’s surroundings on video calls, and I would never ever have noticed this as being odd. Pint glasses to me are just glasses that are suitable for any liquid, and I’m sure it’s clear you’re not drinking beer at work.

    3. tbh, clear glasses just kind of disappear if you have a background (or blur) up – I don’t think I could even tell what type of glass you had.

    4. I probably wouldn’t notice what you were drinking out of. My new job has a total camera-off culture so for all I know people are cracking a cold one at our afternoon procurement updates.

      I think it was a rule on The Real World that you could drink anything, at any time, as long as it was in an opaque cup. I wanted to be on that show SO BAD.

    5. The drinking glass I am using at my desk right now, pulled from the shelf at work and provided by my workplace, is identical to my pint glasses at home in every way except there is no brewery logo in the side. I work in finance in a Very Fancy office.

    6. You’re making me remember the time I realized I had been on a heavy Zoom day while drinking out of a mug with our dog breed on it that said “I didn’t fart. My butt blew you a kiss.” No one said anything. But I just pray I didn’t take any long sips in front of clients.

  9. Ladies, my mouth feels gross. Mostly my tongue, but that obviously takes up a lot of real estate. This has been going on for a week or two and I swear I’ve tried everything. I have always brushed twice daily, and usually brush my tongue too. I’ve ramped up the tongue brushing and been using a tongue scraper. Started flossing more frequently. Even mouthwash doesn’t keep me fresh for more than half an hour. Breath mints work for maybe 5 minutes. I don’t have any tonsil stones that I can see, got a clean bill of health at the dentist in September. I do wear Invisalign retainers at night, but I wash those fastidiously before I put them in each night. My diet hasn’t changed (no keto breath here), I’m still drinking the same amount of water. My health is otherwise good and unchanged from a month ago before this started. What am I missing?

    1. Is your nose stuffed up? I have bad allergies and other issues so I can rarely breathe through my nose and this is an ongoing issue for me. Postnasal drip only makes it worse. I’ve seen lots of doctors and take lots of meds, but there’s only so much I can do about it.

      1. Nope, no mouth breathing going on here. I can definitely see how that would make your mouth feel terrible!

      1. I’m somehow not capable of gurgling without triggering my gag reflex or swallowing/inhaling half the liquid, but I could try a break from dairy.

    4. Is it possible you’ve developed a mild case of thrush? I’ve had it a couple of times caused by asthma meds, but it can crop up due to other things that impact oral dryness or flora like switching toothpastes or allergy meds. Reflux can also impact oral health, even if you don’t have obvious assumptions. Might be worth a visit with your PCP to rule those out.

      Run of the mill dryness, especially at night, can also make your mouth feel gross even if it’s not quite bad enough to feel like dry mouth. I’d try switching to alcohol free mouthwash (you can use a teaspoon each of baking soda and hydrogen peroxide in 1/4 cup of warm water) and swish some coconut oil right before bed. It sounds gross, but it helps keep your mouth moist overnight without messing up the bacterial balance. Chewing sugar free gum with xylitol during the day could help too.

      1. Thrush was my thought too. I got it once after being sick and remember it feeling like I had just drunk something really sugary and gross, almost like my tongue was coated.

      2. Hmm I looked up thrush and don’t have the symptoms.

        Interesting you mention reflux because I get heartburn about twice a decade (not a typo, it’s extremely rare for me) and had an episode bad enough to wake me up about a week before this started.

        1. it’s still worth checking. mild thrush just feels like a tongue coating you can’t shake.

      1. No more mucus than usual. I do have allergies but not this time of year, and I take a daily Zyrtec anyway.

    6. I would try a low-concentration chlorhexidine mouthwash. It can help kill the remaining bacteria lingering in mouth [also makes wonders for gum health]. And maybe add/boost your probiotics intake – no scientific evidence here, just personal experience.
      I would also bring this up during your dental cleaning or dentist appointment.

    7. If your trouble shooting doesn’t improve things, I would make an appointment with your doctor, and/or at least give your dentist a quick call and they might give you some suggestions over the phone.

      Sometimes stomach/GI issues can lead to bad breath and mouth changes. So it’s worth getting it checked out, especially if your reflux symptoms are getting worse lately.

    8. Any chance you’ve had Covid in the last 6 months? I only ask because of that writer who Tweeted about having “black hairy tongue” or something right before she died suddenly (and had been recovering from a bout with Covid a month or two earlier).

  10. Y’all:

    I went to work for an important most-hands meeting yesterday. I saw a belly button. The crop tops have arrived. End times; end times.

    1. More details requested. Was it a very junior employee? A very fashionable one? What was the rest of the outfit like?

      1. Definitely junior. Not sure if any of us would pass for fashionable — more like “in line with mall stores.” Denim. Maybe heels? Most of the meeting was sitting around a table.

        FWIW, office is dress-your-day and denim is generally OK if nothing more formal is needed. I find the office cold, even more so since they don’t seem to heat it much for the 20 people usually on site. I find it cold enough to have worn a heavier wool sweater yesterday.

    3. I work in a casual office and we had a summer outdoor bbq right after work one day. One of the interns came in with short denim shorts on. 🤦🏻‍♀️

      1. With huge white sneakers? Or heels. Heels would be a bold choice. We had dudes in jorts and cargo shorts and really poorly pedicured feet (like huge horn-like toenails worn with some sort of water sandal; DUDE there is a reason we are OK with people wearing socks with sandals).

        I feel like sometimes I questions if evolution is still happening. Clearly it did once. Now, maybe we are going backwards.

      2. See, I can imagine how that would be a confusing event to dress for as an intern. As someone with experience, I know that I need to dress a certain way for an after work event, but your intern was probably just thinking about what they would wear to any other barbecue. Heck, we get seasoned people that post here all the time that aren’t sure what to wear to an after work baseball game or holiday party.

    4. Ha, thank you for this update. I’m betting your belly button sighting was better than mine. I once sat through a meeting where a senior leader (40 ish with quite a paunch) did the ‘push back from the table, lean back in chair, clasp hands behind head, and share his brilliant thoughts’. Well, he was wearing an ‘untuckit’ style shirt without an undershirt which rode up to expose quite a large swath of pale and hairy belly. I studiously took notes throughout because I knew if I made eye contact with anyone else I would lose it. I had to go have a giggle fit in the bathroom with a colleague before our next call. Sadly this was not the last time this happened as he seemed to be unaware of the fact that his shirts were at least a size too small (and given his level it was not an issue of not being able to afford new clothing). I think ‘wear a shirt that covers your lower midriff/belly button’ is a pretty reasonable work expectation!

      1. Being able to admit he needs a bigger size shirt is an entirely different issue than being able to afford it. Co-signed, see my husband.

      2. That reminds me – my first job out of college we all wore polo shirts. One of my coworkers never, ever buttoned ANY of his buttons and he was pretty hairy. It was like he had a little mouse perched there. I think about that sometimes when I’m stressing about how I look.

          1. My husband had his entire neck lasered and said it was the best thing he’d ever done.

          2. That’s the thing – he shaved his head! And had a small goatee but otherwise shaved his face. Just the chest hair.

        2. Ohhh I had a client once who wore polo shirts with no undershirt, and was very hairy. He did button at least one or two buttons but the hair still billowed over the top and was also visible through his shirts because they were fairly thin. It was hard to keep a straight face in meetings.

      3. Omg you brought back memories of my first corporate job where one of the bosses with a size-able belly would wear shirts that strained to button and would give us a peekaboo of his very hairy belly button. We talked about it ALL the time.

  11. Had an interview yesterday and my only hang-up going into it was the pay scale. However at the end of the interview (where I learned that the job was even more of a perfect fit than I’d thought), they mentioned pay and the range was about 20k higher than I’d expected, making it good to great pay for me. (Apparently I’d g00gled the wrong scale or it showed up for another industry or something, not sure). Now I’m trying like he11 not to get my hopes up as I know it’s all a numbers game and whatnot. They said they’re hoping to make a decision before year’s end. Also, is it bad that I feel like I’ve had such poor dating luck that maybe it means I’ll be luckier in the career side of life? (I know, I know, no logic there haha)

    I just want to feel settled in something rather than adjuncting at so many unis simultaneously and not knowing about next term til a few days before the term begins.

    I’ve been here since the site began and I’m just ready to be one of the many here who has major exciting job news, darn it!

    6. Sending you so much positive energy! You have been a bright spot in my day on multiple occasions!!

    7. Fingers crossed for you! You deserve the best!

      I had a different recruitment experience today – the job seemed great, but the salary was much lower vs my minimum. Sigh. So I will channel all my positive thoughts to your getting an offer :)

  12. If you have posted about a situation needing advice or a job search or a flirty exchange with someone, please post an update. (Remind us of the story and then tell us your update so no one has to look for the backstory.)

    Thanks!

    1. I’m the person who sparked a surprising-to-me amount of debate over my parents inviting themselves to our otherwise just-us Thanksgiving in a house we moved into less than a week before and then insisting at the last minute that we must have dinner 3 hours earlier than previously planned and agreed to by all, even though they knew DH has his heart set on smoking the turkey and they knew that takes 7 hours. DH did not wake up at 5 am like he needed to, I woke him up at 7 when I got up. He cut some corners, turned up the heat, and the turkey was ready by 1 pm as my parents had demanded. Unfortunately my mother and I couldn’t figure out how to work the fancy-to-us ovens that came with the house and the sides weren’t ready until 2:30, which is the time I had suggested as a compromise and they refused. They left shortly after 3 and got home well before dark, because their drive actually takes under 1.5 hours (as I said) not the 2 hours they insist it takes (which is why they’re always 30+ minutes early). So in the end everyone more or less got what they wanted, I suppose.

      1. I think people were focusing on the driving at night part (which is a reasonable request from your parents) and glossed over the fact that this was a last minute change (not so reasonable). This isn’t a meal you casually whip up 90 minutes beforehand- Thanksgiving dinner is a long process that requires advance planning. No matter the reasoning I would be annoyed if someone demanded a timing change the day beforehand.

    2. Earlier this year I posted about interviewing for a high level position. I posted about it here before the interview I think, and some people here advised me to stay away from this job (it was to lead a team that is struggling). I did not listen, lol. I walked out of the (multiple) interviews feeling confident but then got ghosted. A few months later I saw on the application system that I was marked “not hired” and was honestly pretty annoyed — I did multiple interviews and this is a high level job — it seemed unprofessional to not send a thanks but no thanks email. But whatever, their loss. Some time later, I saw in an industry publication that they had filled the position with someone whose resume sounded amazing and perfect for the job — I would have also hired this person over me! So I was a little less annoyed. Then about a month later I started hearing rumors and then saw an article that this person’s offer was rescinded (I don’t think they had started yet so not fired?) because after the announcement multiple people came forward with stories of sexual harassment about this person. I was… amused? annoyed? Because you know who would have been great at that job AND never sexually harassed anyone?? ME. I saw the job was reposted shortly after. Then last week I saw that it was reposted AGAIN. So they still haven’t found someone… after passing on ME, who was crazy enough to have taken this job.

      Since then, I got a major promotion and raise at my current job and am very happy. I only considered that job because I became frustrated that this promotion was taking too long with no timeline in sight. So it all worked out fine for me, but perhaps not for them.

    3. I still think about the person who was missing tens of thousands of dollars from JP Morgan. Did we ever hear what happened with this?

    4. I asked about whether to go a funeral for a friend’s parent at a time when I was still deep in grief over a loss in my own life and afraid of someone making it about me by crying too much. I went to the funeral.

      I think I did cry a lot relative to other people present, but I didn’t completely meltdown. I wanted to disappear when people shared condolences with me. Some people expressed surprised that I came, though that may have been more because I hadn’t seen anyone since before the pandemic. But I’m glad people encouraged me to go. Honestly I have never regretted going to the funeral, the wedding, the shower, the hospital sick bed, but I do have some regrets from times when I didn’t make it even if there were a lot of reasons at the time. And this time the reasons were all in my head anyway. So thank you to everyone who pointed that out!

      1. Can I just say, I feel like going to a funeral without crying too much is an incredible skill? I think I could go to the funeral of a stranger and cry once their loved ones start talking about them. I am always so self conscious about how much I cry at the funerals of people I knew but wasn’t close with.

        1. I once had a nasty, miserable teenage fight with my mom directly prior to the wedding of a cousin I have little to no love for, and then sat in the second row of the chapel with the rest of the family with the tears streaming down my face. It irks me to this day that it must have looked like I gave even a single sh*t.

      2. So glad you were able to go. Well done.

        You make great points. It is NEVER wrong to go to a funeral. I remember every single person who made gestures to me when there were deaths in my family. Every single one.

      4. I broke up with my boyfriend just before attending a funeral. Needless to say, people must have thought I was closer to the deceased than I was with all my boohooing.

    6. I posted just last week about my SIL’s husband telling my young teen nephew that he could not partake of a full Thanksgiving meal because of a wrestling weigh in. I was very uncomfortable with this and planned on saying something. I should have noted on my original post this was not high school or scholarship level, this is basically a club that anyone can join as long as the dues are paid. The stakes were not high. However, I am happy to report I did not have to cause a ruckus at my own meal! The people running the tournament had some good sense and weighed the kids in the day before Thanksgiving. SIL’s husband, on the other hand, was his usual self. He drove separately from his family, ate in practical silence and didn’t socialize, proclaimed he was tired and left before dessert was even served. (And this was despite his wife practically begging him to please stay and enjoy dessert and some fun games we always play.)

    7. I posted early in the summer waffling about whether to buy a horse when my husband and I were also going to start TTC. The (surprising to me) consensus was to buy the horse…which I did not end up doing for a variety of reasons. Some of those reasons had to down with me, some with the seller, and some with things that emerged about the horse as I seriously evaluated a purchase. I’m now at a new barn with a lease on a new horse, and I look every new sale horse that comes in in the eye and ask them “Are you my horse?” There’s a very pretty new mare who answered, “…maybe?” so watch this space :)

    8. I am the one I posted about my younger brother planning on marrying his pregnant girlfriend this coming weekend and my concerns over my parents’ (and especially my mother’s) reaction.

      Some of the responses did not really apply because they assumed this was a much more serious relationship than it was. When I say, he is marrying her because she is pregnant, that is exactly what I meant. Or they assumed some kind of racial difference or socioeconomic gap, which is also not true.

      That said, my mother was only moderately passive aggressive, and my father did, in fact spend the entire time watching football, so any major blowout was avoided. Fortunately the weather cooperated, so my brother and I were able to take a lot of long walks and spent a day visiting the grandparents (who are awesome).

      The threat of rupturing, a relationship with their first grandchild has been enough to get my parents to promise to attend the wedding and behave so that is a hopeful sign.

      1. Ugh, that poor woman. Please, Big Sister, extend your future sister in law a bit more grace. If he has impregnated her and he is marrying her, that relationship is serious as the proverbial heart attack, by definition. And belittling/minimizing the relationship is not going to be healthy for the marrriage, the extended family, or the coming child.

        1. Totally agree. Big Sister both of your posts have been nominally about your parents’ unreasonable reaction to this news, but both times you’ve also gotten in your own digs. You really need to work on yourself.

        2. Thank you for saying this. My biological parents had a shotgun wedding and the marriage lasted all of five years. The respective in-laws taking shots about the whole thing was really unnecessary and just made things worse.

          Married or not, this is the mother of your nibling and she will be in your brother’s life until one of them dies. Raising the baby, graduations, wedding, baby shower, whatever life events your nibling has, both parents will attend (unless something bad happens).

    9. I posted about my boyfriend who said he enjoyed 0ral gardening, but then wouldn’t always volunteer it. I wound up confronting him about it (bolstered and validated by all of the DMTFA responses by the group!) and basically said it was a firm dealbreaker for me going forward. We talked, and it turned out to be something that he was apprehensive about due to lack of experience and not wanting to overstep boundaries. He also had thought “head” referred any type of stimulation, not specifically 0ral, so in some of the conversations we’d had previously we hadn’t been on the same page at all. He has started doing it every time, and now genuinely seems to love and it and proactively asks to.

      This result shocked me though and I think in 99% of situations would actually just be a fundamental issue, not just lack of experience / miscommunication.

    10. I’ve been thinking / worrying about the poster that I call Mom Jeans in my head, whose husband humiliated and belittled her for what she wore to church when she tried to respectfully broach a subject with him re: his own bad behavior. I hope you’re safe, and that you can post us with a hopeful update in due time.

      1. Oh goodness, I am still very worried about her. I hope we can get an update if she is still here or if anyone is in her city can maybe be a source of support.

    11. I posted about having what could or could not be a date set up after being asked out by the guy who sat next to me at a restaurant. Well, we went to that second dinner and he definitely intended it to be a date, but neither of us felt a romantic connection. We did say we wanted to continue to hang out as friends and exchanged some friendly texts after, with vague plans to meet up again. That date turned out to be the beginning of what ended up being a very serious illness for me (I did not know until the end that I was sick but I only clearly remember parts of that dinner!), and I have pretty much been at home since. Between that and taking to heart the comment here that men aren’t really actually interested in platonic friendships, I kind of let the messaging die. Well, yesterday, I ventured out for the first time in all these many weeks and, while I was waiting for yesterday’s date to arrive to a crowded neighborhood spot, the dinner guy chased me down and made sure to tell me about some specific things we should do together over the next few weeks. So perhaps I really did make a friend and at the least there is another friendly face in my neighborhood.

    12. I posted a while ago about being a 20+ year expert in an activity (e.g. playing a musical instrument) and wanting to teach it to my daughter. The consensus was to farm it out to someone else, and not mix parenting and teaching. People posted stories of coach moms and daughters who fought the whole season, and other such exchanges. I listened to the stories and tried to learn from their mistakes when stated, but I didn’t follow the overall advice to not do it.
      I have been teaching my 7yo and her close friend for about a year now. Results are good but not uniformly so. She loves and looks forward to the classes and so do I. But, she never practices and since I am outside of the teacher capacity, I don’t want to nag too much. She sometimes misbehaves in class wanting to be “special” compared to her fellow student, and pouts if I don’t pay her special attention. She does better than the other student even without practice but also sometimes distracts the other student. I’m enjoying teaching more than I thought.
      I have offered (separate from my FT job) to teach an after-school club once a week in her school. It seems like an interesting creative outlet for me, my daughter is eager to join (and partly due to her special status), it is a limited term thing that I can try out.
      For the class at home, my long term plan for 2023 is to send her to another teacher (one who has many students including advanced ones, and performance opportunities) but I am wondering if I can also join as some type of assistant teacher. That way perhaps I can keep an eye on what my daughter is learning instead of completely letting go.

  13. I’m not sure if I’m looking for advice or just venting. I really thought 2022 was going to be a great year for me and it feels like it’s turning out to be one of the worst. I ended a long term (11 years) relationship right before the pandemic when I realized it was going no where and I was a forever girlfriend. I’m in my mid 30s and I want a husband and kids so badly. I’ve been dating a lot and I’ve met mostly good men who just turn out not to be for me. I’m currently dating a guy with so many red flags (drinks too much, just finalized his divorce and seems hung up on her a bit). But he’s also nice and a great communicator and fun to garden with. Both in my heart and head, I know it’s not going to work out but I’m still like well let’s see where this goes.

    And then probably the worst part of 2022. A man at my work had to be fired for s*xually h*rassing me to the point I had to file a restraining order. I just did not see that coming and it’s been really traumatizing and stressful. I have a therapist and everything but sometimes I just wish I could move somewhere and start completely fresh which has never been something I’ve wanted to do before.

    1. Hugs. That is awful.

      If you need permission from a stranger to just pack up and move, permission granted. It sounds like you really need a fresh start.

    2. Wow that all sounds like a lot!

      Keep gardening with red flag dude if you like, but don’t let that close the door on searching for Mr Right!

      1. I actually disagree. I think it’s easy to fall into the pattern of staying with men who are not right for you and staying a little too long. If I wanted kids in my mid 30’s I wouldn’t waste my time.

        1. I meant she should keep looking now, and keep the gardening going if she likes. I think we mean the same thing.

          1. Problem with that strategy is that many men who want to commit are not going to ask out a woman who is in a situationship with another man.

          2. I don’t think we mean the same thing. I see where you are coming from and I had a fun piece on the side while I seriously dated but I could also turn off my feelings when it came to certain guys. I don’t think the OP is capable of that right now.

        2. +1. I ended things with a man who was a lot like red flag dude, and met my husband three weeks later. I was 33. I am now married and expecting my first child at 38. Things are not always easy with my husband, but he made it very clear from the beginning that he was committed to me and wanted the things I wanted. Don’t settle.

    3. Please, please, please dump the red flag guy. I’ve been there and done that, and it’s such a trap. You can tell yourself you won’t get attached or just see where it goes, but that isn’t how feelings or time works. Any night you spend with him is a night taken from going on a first date with the person who might actually be the love of your life. It’s not fun having to go on a bunch of first dates, and can be nicer to hang out with the person who is familiar and you like to garden with, but if you are mid-thirties and you want kids, you owe it to yourself to do the hard thing and commit to really finding what you want and not settling for less. It can be as easy as sending a text this week saying, “Hey, this has been really fun, but I think I need to start prioritizing more serious dating and I understand that the timing isn’t right here.”

      Heartbreak is so hard, as is wanting something desperately that isn’t in your control as to when you’ll find it. But I promise you your person is out there waiting for you. This time next year, you could very well be a in a year-long relationship with someone you love, talking about engagement, and on the same page about kids. Know that that is a very likely possibility if you start putting yourself out there now and being intentional about who you date, and don’t give in to the hopelessness feelings. Everything can change so quickly.

      So sorry about the guy you had to get a restraining order against. I hope you are taking whatever care of yourself that you need.

      1. This is all such great advice. It is hard but OP, I do agree that you should break things off. I spent 3 years in my 30s with someone because I just didn’t want to be alone. I did end up finding my person and you can too! So much of it is luck but part of it is also putting yourself out there, dating, meeting people etc – all of which you are not as likely to do if red flag guy is around. Good luck!!! You can do it.

      2. +1000. You did a very hard thing by getting out of a long relationship (in a pandemic no less) because you knew it wasn’t right and wasn’t going to get you what you want. It’s the same with red flag guy, and if you get too attached it could keep you from meeting the right person. Towards the beginning of the pandemic, I was mid-30s and in a crappy short-term relationship after a decade of being single and aggressively dating. I knew I wanted kids and that he wasn’t my guy, and that time was running out. It was so, so hard to leave, but I did it. A few weeks later I met someone wonderful. Now it’s two years later, we’re married and I’m pregnant. I can’t promise you’ll meet the right person right away or anytime soon – it’s all luck and dating is so awful. But you’re never further away from the right person than when you’re with the wrong one.

        1. +1. I don’t pretend to know the future, so I can’t promise anyone that they will meet their person, or when. But I’ve come to believe that there’s no such thing as a harmless placeholder relationship with the wrong person. Any passage of time = increased attachment and sunk costs. Out he goes, even in favor of nothing. “You’re never further away from the right person than when you’re with the wrong one.” I know of what I speak.

    4. That is all very awful. 2023 is soon and let it be a new year for you. And if you want kids, may be a chance to consider having them even if the partner piece is not sorted out – there can be challenges but everyone I know who has gone down that path has loved it.

  14. I feel like the moms page is for people who are pregnant with kid #1 or have a kid who is still close to the diaper stage, if not in it. My kids are school age. I muddled through COVID with them on Chromebooks for school for most of 2020 and a chunk of 2021; it took us until 2022 to have rounds of COVID in our house. I feel like the deck is just stacked against working moms (at work; felt this way for a while). Now, I’m also feeling that the deck is a bit stacked against kids of working moms. One kid, who really struggled with remote learning, was on the A/B honor roll last year and got nominated for a junior honor society. She had to fill out an application which read as if she were a college student (volunteer jobs held, leadership positions, etc., etc.). IDK what they were thinking is really a legit expectation of a middle schooler, especially after COVID (most kids activities just stopped, much less things where they could be “leaders”). We did some trail maintenance pulling out kudzu and other invasive plants b/c most orgs that let kids volunteer require a parent on site and no one wanted germy kids inside with COVID and now flu season here (and a certain # of hours is required for their school). IDK how this is really supposed to happen and I guess I didn’t realize it was an expectation so early in their lives. I don’t know how schools expect this to happen if both parents work FT — surely that’s not remarkable in 2022? I know one mom who is basically a puppetmaster to her high school aged kid (she can’t go to any meetings the whole week her kid has midterms — IDK how this kid will go to college if the mom doesn’t come with him) and I do not want to go down that road. Tell me it will be OK (I work mostly with guys, so they don’t even see this; and I guess I need more local mom friends, but not competitive moms — need to find that tribe and join it asap).

    1. I am hear to tell you it will be ok because I tell myself the same. My kids aren’t in middle yet but in upper elementary and I can see the road ahead. We have consciously opted out of a lot already and there is a certain power in it. If your kids are happy and doing well, it is enough. It is hard when the supposed race is loud and in your face but I remind myself that the ultimate goal is rear wonderful adult humans. While my family enjoys incredible privilege, having two working parents means we have to let a lot go. Enjoy the freedom!

    2. I feel like the person who expects middle schoolers to be leaders . . . maybe does not know actual middle schoolers? I know plenty of bossy middle school girls who will no doubt grow up to be #bossbabes, but to me, yelling at people and bossing them around is very Tracey Flick. And if you aren’t old enough to walk to a thing or have to be driven there, you are not leading the thing you are at. I feel like there is a credentialing arms race and the credentials are all phony and people know this. Start an LLC and name your kid president of it. It is true and it’s not like they will be crypto bros ripping people off, so arguably leading by example vs some grownups fawned over until recently.

    3. I don’t know if this will be a lightbulb moment for you, but every middle schooler I was in school with had volunteer activities because (and only because) of a bar or bat mitzvah or via church. The synagogue or church arranged for age appropriate activities, transported the kids there, supervised them, and then dropped them back at the usual sunday school location. I also know that Girl Scouts operated in much the same fashion and had friends doing that.

      I agree that it sounds like a huge lift to come up with ideas and execute on them yourself, and that’s why I want to point out that a lot of parents aren’t doing the big lift themselves much less even attending these volunteer sessions. It’s just a package deal with whatever organizations their kids are involved with.

    4. I was the kid of a single parent who largely left me to figure out what I wanted to do outside of school, so I didn’t do much until I was old enough to figure out what was available. I attended after care in elementary school and watched way too much tv at home.

      As much as I wish I spent more time learning skills and engaging in different ways in my community when I was a child, figuring things out for myself was way more important a skill in the long run. I think I’m much better off having been trusted to figure out what I wanted to do within the bounds of what was reasonable for a working parent to help me attend than if my parent had scheduled me for lots of activities.

      I’m pretty sure not getting into junior honor society won’t harm your child’s future. It still sounds like an honor for your kiddo and if it matters to kiddo, maybe kiddo can talk to the teacher to find out what’s available for a kid with her constraints to get in? Managing all that herself will teach her way more than if you had just arranged volunteer leadership activities for her.

      1. Yeah, I totally agree with this as a child of working (and later divorced) parents. And NJHS will not matter one tiny bit to any of her future prospects.

    5. I’m not a parent, but my advice would be to just not worry about this stuff until she is in high school. Middle school activities only matter in the sense of setting you up for high school activities (like learning an instrument or being on a sports team, since you can’t reasonably start either of those for the first time at age 14 and expect to join the band or be JV or varsity). Something like an honor society where there isn’t any real skill being developed? Pshhh. I was in the regular National Honor Society in high school and really all you had to do to stay in it was keep up your grades and do some volunteering each semester. It meant nothing. What did mean something was joining various clubs in high school and sticking with them for 3-4 years. Give your daughter permission to not care about this.

      If she has an interest in a particular activity (sport, music, dance, theater, etc.), get her in that activity so she can learn and decide if it’s something she might want to continue into high school. If you don’t know any of the other moms, tell her to get to know one or two of the other kids and invite them over to play or whatever kids do these days and meet the moms through their kids. Or just other kids in their class if not in an activity. Your tribe should be the parents of the kids who are in your kid’s tribe :)

    6. Two book recommendations for you:

      How to Raise an Adult by Julie Lythcott-Haims

      How to be a High School Superstar by Cal Newport

      Both are written by extremely successful people (profs at Stanford and MIT). The first is written to parents; the second is written to high schoolers. Both feature discussions of deliberate under-scheduling and children doing less. Both present case studies in the value of that less. And the first one is a delightful audiobook if that’s more your vibe (haven’t read the latter in several years and not sure if it ever was published as an audiobook).

      1. Peloton’s recommendations are very good, and I will just add that Julie Lythcott-Haims wrote a second book aimed at young adults. Your Turn: How to Be an Adult. I haven’t read it yet, but found her first book terrific, so would expect this one to be worth reading.

      2. Hard no on How to Be A High School Superstar. I picked it up in the bookstore and it is full of examples of kids who started successful businesses etc. It is not at all the “follow your dreams and get out of the rat race” book it purports to be. It’s just promoting a different rat race.

    7. Our high school has 4 hours/quarter required volunteer time to graduate. The school posts tons of opportunities. I don’t know how this worked during COVID but around here there are lots of places to volunteer.

      1. In high school, presumable a bunch of those kids can get to the activity. If your kid takes a bus to/from school, then they can’t go elsewhere to volunteer b/c the bus in our city takes up to an hour (not enough buses or drivers). My kids get on a bus at 8:20 am and I’m lucky if they are home by 5:15. IDK when they are getting any activities in unless they are zoom tutoring kids on the west coast. Like when they apply to college, my kids will have grades and some volunteering at church b/c you can do that on Sunday morning when mom and her car are at home and available.

        Serious question: if any of you had a FT working mom, how did you manage? Really thinking I will need to go PT by the time my kids are in high school (if I don’t lose my mind first). In my city, there are local relatives or mom really doesn’t work FT anymore.

        1. My mom worked from home but we did a bunch of carpooling. When she was in school she had to bum rides almost all the time (her mom didn’t drive), so that’s how she paid it forward.

        2. I posted above. My daughter did her hours at the neighborhood elem school. They had some picnic and she out in glitter tattoos and ran the cake walk. She biked there. It was a Saturday afternoon.

        3. What does she do on weekends? My 9 year old has two high school girls that assistant coach her bball team. The team practices Monday 6-7, Tues 7-8 and Sat 9am-10am. Not all girls are at all games but they help out the actual go ACH and get volunteer hours for it.

          I think a parent of one of the 9 year olds drives one of the high schoolers sometimes. Don’t be afraid to ask for rides :). I drive my 14 year old neighbor to softball because she practices on the field next to my 9 year old at the same time. It’s no problem at all!

        4. I did a lot of activities in high school and had two full-time working parents, but my activities were all school-based activities. I had to spend a lot of time hanging out at school or in the library before I could get a ride home, and got my license at 16 so I could drive myself home (and drive my sister to stuff). The only thing I remember doing in high school that required my parents to drive me there and back every time was SAT prep class (which was held at the $$$$ city prep school because it wasn’t something that was “done” at my exurban high school).

          I know Things Have Changed, but I can’t imagine that *all* college admissions people were born yesterday and don’t realize that a kid who does 6 days of a highly specialized after-school activity 100 miles from their house has a parent (probably a mother) who spends hours driving them hither and yon. And a kid who doesn’t have that advantage isn’t some dum-dum who just sits around chewing their thumb because they are in Model UN and debate.

      2. My middle school requires 20, then 30, then 40 hours of service. Maybe that is IB-required? Turns out, my kids like using grabbers to get trash out of streams, but I’m always afraid that they will get c*ndoms or worse, so I go out with them just in case. The school lets us know of opportunities, but does not coordinate transportation b/c the teachers aren’t available then (like they have their own kids to pick up, tutoring, etc.) and they have no activities bus or drivers. I guess everyone has a SAHM available for this?

    8. My maybe questionable take is that even though they may have forms asking for things like volunteering and leadership positions, it doesn’t mean that they’re requirements to become a member. If it was I don’t think a lot of kids would make the cut. I wouldn’t stress over it.

    9. You and your kid will be okay and you sound like a great parent! As a former high school teacher, the kids of the “puppetmaster” (perfect term, btw) parents are the ones who suffer in the long run.

      1. And I hate the cultural emphasis placed on leadership so much of the time for you by people. Those who show up and quietly do hard work are valuable assets to their team! Not everyone can or should be a leader, and leader doesn’t always mean that you’re the best at something. I remember when I taught that our student activities coordinator was frustrated by all of the students who wanted to start up a club just so they could have a role as a president of something for their college application.

        4. I agree with this. I’m not a natural leader. I have a lot of other strengths though and I’ve been very successful in life. I felt very glossed over by teachers in middle and high school because I wasn’t a “leader.” The quiet hard worker bees are just as important!

        6. ha ha…

          My niece joined a hiking club at her high school, and loved it. So good for mental health, to be honest! The “President” saw her enthusiasm and chose her as the “assistant”, so now my niece plans all the outings and prepares the power point talks about everything from Environmental sustainability issues to Lyme’s disease. After a year of this, she realized that she was actually doing all the “work” in the Club, and the President did… nothing. So she asked the President if maybe they could be Co-Presidents. And the President was like….. yeah….. no. No on that. College applications, you know…

        7. I remember an interview with a very funny comedian who was asked why she didn’t direct episodes of her series and she said that for her, directing felt like one of those word problems in algebra but the decisions/questions/issues just never ended. She was quite happy to do the “be funny” part, but didn’t want to figure out all of the details. That resonated with me because I directed a play in college and *hated* it. I felt so sub-par/broken because my college was super into turning out “women leaders” and I didn’t like leading even though I’d done a good job.

        8. Cannot agree more. I was “not a leader” in middle school and high school, but as an adult, I can’t get away from leadership positions. Some of us are late bloomers and that’s okay. Some of us don’t shine in high school and that’s okay.

    10. I have a middle schooler and a high schooler. FWIW, I remain in a state of surprise at how much of K-12 public school culture expects a full-time SAHM who is ready, willing, and able to drop everything on a moment’s notice and hightail it over to the school for some semi-necessary activity. The word “puppetmaster” used downthread is apt, APT!

      It’s going to be OK. While it’s good for kids to be involved in things in middle school, my understanding is that college applications don’t ask (or want) you to go through all of the activities/honors you received before ninth grade. My oldest is a freshman in high school and involved in plenty of stuff, but my trick is that it’s stuff she loves, not stuff I would have picked for her (playing violin in two orchestras, Girl Scouts, jewelry club). She’s also kind and sweet and not a jerk to people who aren’t her mom. Yale wouldn’t want her but the rest of the world will!

    11. I think everyone gets that less stuff in general happened during COVID. My son had zero extracurriculars for his last two years of high school (2019/2020 and 2020/2021) and still got into his first choice college and major (CS.)

    12. When I was in middle school, our honor society also required us to list “activities” for the application but they were all within the school — I remember being on yearbook committee counted, and some other things like that. Everyone who wanted to was able to find things to do within the school day and building. No one’s parents had to get involved.

      1. I have a middle schooler, and I also would assume this applies to school-sponsored activities for the most part, with the exception of things like church activities, Scouts, etc. OP, I really wouldn’t sweat this too much. I definitely don’t have the time and inclination to curate my middle schoolers’ activities beyond what he does through school and our church. Most middle schoolers aren’t going to have meaningful leadership experience yet, I wouldn’t think!

    13. I also have a middle schooler. I get where you’re coming from, but IME, most people aren’t like the mom who can’t go to meetings during midterm week (what the actual you-know-what). That is NOT going to serve that child later in life. Or the mom, for that matter. I promise that you’re a good role model for how real life works, which is that adults have their own things going on and aren’t there to merely shepherd their kids through life. Guide, yes. Support, yes. Being so involved that your lives are interchangeable? Not healthy. OK, that turned into a bit of a rant.

      1. I was trapped at a PTA membership table listening to a puppetmaster mom go on and on and on about her kid who was on the path to playing a sport at a D1 university and eventually going pro. All the commuting, college scouts, games, practices, playoffs, social events he had to navigate, studying, general brilliance, ambition, competition, press coverage, etc., etc. While the whole experience was so far removed from my own that it was genuinely kind of fascinating (and a bit glamorous), that hour is somewhere within the top 10 of longest hours of my life. I suspect that the other parents avoid her and she just inflicts this on unsuspecting fools like yours truly.

        1. Just LOL-ing at this. My best friends in high school all ended up at Ivies. They did Things, none of which required much parent involvement-or frankly, much money- at all.

          One was an Eagle Scout so there was some parent schlepping. But that was over by age 15. My friends and I bummed rides from older friends that could drive, or walked/bikes to things around town. They were LONG walks/bike rides. In middle school, I was a “peer tutor” which meant I walked 1-1.5 miles (probably uphill both ways) to a nearby elementary school to help 2nd graders do homework.

          For sports, I did no cut sports, did no clubs and took the bus. My friends did other sports, newspaper, Theatre, all state orchestra, mock trial, all of which were school based and maybe had a few weekends out of the year where you had to actually be anywhere. These kids studied hard (probably hung out at the library waiting for a ride at like 7pm), got sting test scores and great grades. Several are Names You (Might) Know. One is a major politician. His mom worked full time.

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