Coffee Break: Catalina Earring
I know that gold jewelry is super trendy right now, but I still like a little color in my jewelry… and these bestsellers from Julie Vos look gorgeous, especially for work.
I like how they're substantial earrings but also just basic posts — there's no movement near your face, which can be distracting. I also like how they bring a beautiful pop of color to your face.
(Maybe this is a “me” thing — as a pale brunette with brown eyes I really feel like I have to rely on lipstick or jewelry near my face to bring some color into the mix! It probably doesn't help that I wear a ton of black, ha.)
These pretty earrings are $165 at JulieVos.com. They come in 10 colors, and you can also get them as clip-on earrings if you prefer.
Sales of note for 12.5
- Nordstrom – Cyber Monday Deals Extended, up to 60% off thousands of new markdowns — great deals on Natori, Vince, Theory, Boss, Cole Haan, Tory Burch, Rothy's, and Weitzman, as well as gift ideas like Barefoot Dreams and Parachute — Dyson is new to sale, 16-23% off, and 3x points on beauty purchases.
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had posted on the last one but reposting as a wise suggestion. I keep reading about how much protein middle aged women should be eating and honestly it seems impossible to reach those numbers while eating real food. Someone earlier suggested protein powder– any other suggestions? and for those who use the powder, what do you do with it? just basic shakes or something else?
Fairlife milk.
If you consume dairy, the Premier Protein shakes are phenomenal. If you don’t, OWYN shakes are more drinkable than the other options.
Fairlife milk or protein shakes. Their shakes are the best and taste the best IMO.
Before eating protein powder or going to great lengths, I’d check with my MD or a registered dietician for their recommendations for you.
I am very skeptical of a dietary recommendation that prescribes eating in a manner that is very different from the more commonly advised lots of vegetables, whole grains, legumes, etc (commonly labeled as something like the Mediterranean diet).
I try to eat between 80-100 grams of protein a day. I cannot do that without shakes. Fairlife protein shakes are great. Or if I’m going to use a powder, I prefer Foundation by Arms Race Nutrition. The chocolate lava cake flavor is delicious. I drink it mixed with water but I know people that add it to their morning smoothie.
I”m the commenter from the other thread who mentioned protein powder. 99% of the time I have it in a smoothie. I do frozen berries + almond milk + protein powder + greek yogurt + chia seeds in a smoothie before the gym a few days a week.
I only like unflavored protein powder, but I know people who like the flavored types and they’ll just do a protein shake with the powder + water.
I also use collagen powder – either in smoothies or in my coffee. I also occasionally stir a tablespoon into oatmeal, yogurt, or chia pudding for some extra protien.
Usually I do a smoothie and coffee + collagen in the AM, chocolate milk after the gym, then greek yogurt or chia pudding + fruit for breakfast, a salad or grain bowl with chicken, lentils or chickpeas, cheese, and other veggie toppings for lunch and for dinner is usually a piece of fish + veggies + sides. My snacks are usually very low protein: fruit, veggies + dip, cheese + crackers, or popcorn, but I do eat a serving of nuts as a snack once or twice a day.
I’m younger than you are, but aim for 90-110g of protein a day for some athletic goals I am working on.
I don’t use protein powder currently. When I did I made smoothies with yogurt, or protein powder pancakes with eggs.
I do eat a concentrated protein source at every meal. I think I find it easier to hit intake goals because I don’t eat a lot of starches and don’t limit fish, eggs, or lean meats. I do limit cheese but still use it.
(And when I say I don’t limit eggs, I mean that I don’t blink an eye at eating 4-6 eggs in a day several times a week!)
A breakfast food that can boost you a little bit – gram flour (chickpea) pancakes or crepes. (To which you could add protein powder).
Crepes: Batter from gram flour, eggs and milk and salt, fried in butter or ghee and topped with ham and eggs, mushroom and cottage cheese, peanut butter and banana or apple, hummus with grated carrot and tuna, or feta cheese and peppers.
Pancakes: Batter from gram flour, eggs and milk with raising agent and salt, with cottage cheese added to the batter. Served with whatever you do pancakes with, but eggs and bacon will do a protein boost.
I mix unflavored whey protein (Jarrow) in a smoothie as part of my breakfast that also includes fruit and greek yogurt (more protein). I also have cottage cheese or greek yogurt as a snack and try to get a good serving of protein in at both lunch and dinner. It is hard to do this without eating some form of meat if you are also trying to keep calories and carbs more moderate. Other snacks with protein that I enjoy are string cheese, turkey pepperoni, and nuts. Plain milk is also decent and easy. I have also mixed protein powder in with my oatmeal but decided that I was likely consuming more protein than I could absorb at one time with breakfast so now try to spread it out a bit.
Ok so what is all of this protein supposed to do for you? Earnest question. I’m a menopausal 50 something and not a vegetarian or vegan, have some protein at most meals, but am I supposed to go caveman diet now?
Protein helps build muscle and prevent muscle loss. Once you’re over 50, you start to lose muscle at an increased rate, and loss of muscle leads to a lot of events like falls.
I’m not saying people need to eat 200 grams per day, but 100 is very achievable if you plan just a little.
My dietitian encouraged more protein as a way to feel more full (I’m trying to lose weight). It has helped a lot.
My dietitian encouraged more protein as a way to feel more full (I’m trying to lose weight). It has helped a lot.
Just read the FAFSA discussion and found it a very weird thing to get one’s undies in a bunch about. The gist of the thread seems to be that rich people don’t want other people to know how rich they are?
Yeah, I thought it was weird too. I can understand not wanting to disclose your income to your kid’s elementary school if it’s going to lead to PTA mom gossip (although that seems like a HUGE breach of confidentiality on the school’s part!!! I’m on the PTA and have never had any kind of access to this info) but you don’t know the people in the financial aid office at the college, so why would you even care if they were gossiping about you?? Which I promise they’re not. Unless you’re buy-a-building rich, there’s always someone richer.
IDK — I think it is easy if you get a W-2 but if you are a small business owner it will be a PITA that may come too late or have zero return for all the effort. I work for a partnership that also own a small percentage of and don’t get a W-2, so dreading this. IDK what other small business owners do.
Data breaches are practically a fact of life right now, and the more places your sensitive information is stored, the more lottery tickets you have to win that terrible lottery that is identity theft or otherwise having your information misused.
Filling out financial aid forms means your sensitive financial information being held in yet another place and is accessible to yet more people.
My alma mater recently communicated about a data breach that occurred two years ago, and impacted anyone who had ever applied to the university, attended the university or worked at the university, over a 20 year period. It’s maddening to be almost 20 years out from undergrad & now know that my information was compromised and for so long. And apparently the school knew for months before informing those who were impacted!
exactly.
Yeah – I’m a fed so with the OPM breach I know everything about me is out there now… Which included EVERYTHING since I have a security clearance.
If that was what you got out of the discussion, you didn’t read the comments very closely.
Yeah only the OP and a couple of posters said this. Such a bizarre takeaway.
Pretty bad/low effort hot take, but OK.
Dear SAHM Neighbor,
Thank you so much for your kind invitation to attend your “laid back ladies’ night” two Wednesdays from now. I am genuinely envious of your home fully decorated for every holiday, your spare energy for cul-de-sac holiday goodie bags, and the general festive Good Idea Fairy that lives inside your heart. But girlfriend, it’s December. Between work travel, year-end deadlines, holiday parties, and everything else, relaxing and gossiping and drinking wine on a random Wednesday is not on my to-do list. Coming home and collapsing into pjs and/or running errands in the dark are on my to-do list. If this were Jan or Feb, I’d be all about it.
Signed,
Neighbor who’d love to participate but is the only working woman on the street
It’s not a priority for you, but it’s not snark-worthy – frankly, it makes you sound quite bitter. I’d love an invite like that.
+1
I would love an invite for a Friday. Not something where I have to get up early the next day. I want to enjoy things on par with others.
But SAHMs also have to get up in the mornings? It’s weird that you’re acting like this woman is a lady of leisure with no obligations. That might be true if she was a stay at home *wife* to a rich man, but trust me, anyone with kids at home is not sleeping in!
I have a kid with a bus pickup at 6:15. I would not have a drink Sun-TH night because that is hard enough already. Even if I were a SAHM, that is EARLY. Friday-Saturday nights only.
Yeah I totally get that some people prefer not to drink on weeknights, but I don’t really get why it’s a working vs. SAHM divide. Anyone with kids is getting up reasonably early.
Op, if you want something like this on a Friday, host it! It doesn’t have to be fancy.
That’s a great idea. “Hey neighbor, thank you so much for the invite but I’m slammed this month! Could you pop over for a quick post-holiday night on, say, Jan 8? I can see if X and Y can make it, too!”
Maybe you’re not hard up for friends like I am after a recent move, but I would love this kind of invite. You can always duck out early on a weeknight.
+1 OP sounds bitter and toxic. I love my cheery SAHM neighbour, she plans all the block events and takes a whole lot of labour off everyone else’s shoulders. Sure I can’t go to every event but I’m thankful for her services
This is the way to be. Everyone has different strengths and obligations in life. Enjoy this neighbor for including you and thinking of you for something she is planning to be fun/relaxed/intimate. It means she really likes you! If you don’t like her, then politely decline.
Yes! I’m the mom in my kids group of friends that does all the late night pick ups (they are teenage boys) or early morning weekend drives to sports. The SAHM’s, or those with have more flexible work schedule, do so much for us during the day that I can’t possibly do because I’m in the office. We all have our strengths!
I wish I lived in your community. The SAHMs in my town generally aren’t room parents or PTA officers or able to volunteer with the Girl Scouts. It’s the working moms who do the bulk of the volunteer work.
That’s so odd. Nearly every SAHM of school age kids I know is super involved with the kids’ schools and activities, and I think anyone who did zero volunteer work would get some serious side-eye unless they had kids under 5 or another significant personal obligation like eldercare.
But I also don’t live somewhere where SAHMs all have nannies and housekeepers. They are mostly middle or lower middle class here, and in many cases don’t work because the money they could earn wouldn’t cover childcare for 2-3 kids.
It may be a big-city thing. The SAHMs are mostly married to guys that make fairly serious money and/or have long hours (e.g., entertainment industry). Their spouses seem to expect a LOT of waiting on, preferably hand and foot.
Right? I’d make that work at least one Wednesday.
Hey OP, no one is having holiday gatherings @ you.
This! Op’s loss that sounds fun.
+1 to the poster at 2:15 This is such a toxic response to what sounds like a lovely invite. (I work and have kids, fwiw.)
You shouldn’t go to the party because you clearly don’t like this person.
I have a job and still think that sounds fun?
But on a Friday or Saturday.
But then you wouldn’t go because you said you’re attending holiday parties. I think a Wednesday is perfect for “laid back night.” It sounds deliberately casual and fun. I wish I knew this woman!
I work full time (albeit not in a particularly intense job) and would love a Wednesday night invite. In fact, I prefer weeknight things to weekends, which get busy with kid events and extended family stuff. I wouldn’t drink more than one glass of wine on a weeknight, but that wouldn’t prevent me from having fun with friends!
Why though? I’m not trying to be snarky, I just don’t understand why an event has to be on a weekend for you to attend? My coworker just invited a group of women from our office to a low key Thursday night thing at her house, and it was lovely. We all work outside the home, obviously, and most of us have kids. What is wrong with weeknight get togethers for working moms?
Disagree. Wednesdays are WAY better for something low key. Friday and Saturdays in December are always blocked with events like work parties or kid events.
This! I don’t exactly have a roaring social life but I think 80% of my weekend nights in December are already booked. There is just so much going on this time of year that it doesn’t make sense to me to schedule anything on any day *but* a weeknight.
+1 million, weeknights are made for this kind of thing and they make a week so happy
Nope! I love a weeknight event. I’m a single working mom and it is easier for me to get a sitter for a random Wednesday and just get home at ten and go to bed. You’re just very wrong here.
No – on Fridays and Saturdays I have enough going on – family plans or seeing other friends (who live in my area but further away that a Thursday night is too much of a hassle).
My “mom’s group” of friends gets together on Thursday nights once a month. We all work – and have pretty demanding jobs – (a surgeon, a nurse, three teachers (one teachers elementary school Phys Ed, one works in a pre-school, and one teaches middle school), and a few more generic “office workers”). My husband and his friends (some of whom are the husbands of these women) get together on Wednesdays for golf (or bowling in the winter).
Yes exactly. Weekends get so busy, especially this time of year, with events like theater/ballet, formal holiday parties and family obligations. Weeknights are perfect for low key friend get togethers.
I work full-time, and I’d be more likely to attend this type of event on a weeknight. I feel like I’m already booked every Friday and Saturday in December! I certainly don’t see how popping over to a neighbor’s house for a glass of wine on a Wednesday evening is a loathsome idea, even if I couldn’t make it.
I’ll add that stay at home parents work. My SAHM was definitely a “working woman” and so were my grandmothers who each had 6 and 9 children, respectively. How hard stay at home parents work depends on a lot of things. Same as employees – some employees work a lot and others absolutely do not.
Yes for sure. I work, but not particularly hard, and I definitely think being a SAHM with at least one kid under 5 would be WAY harder than my job. Once all your kids are in school it’s generally easier, but still…circumstances vary.
I’m sorry, but I hate this as a response. Particularly on a board of women who actually work in offices, etc.
She’s not wrong though, especially if the SAHM in question has multiple young kids.
eh, I’ve done both. The moms who work outside the home do a full time job AND all the kid stuff. It’s definitely harder.
Agree to disagree. I only have one kid, staying home when she was a toddler/preschooler would have been a LOT harder than going to an office and using 40 hours a week of daycare. My job is not as demanding as many here, but being a SAHM to young kids is very hard work, and in many cases the SAHM also does a lot of work to run the household (cooking, cleaning, yardwork) that is either split more evenly or outsourced if the mom works outside the home.
Yeah same here!
I’m fine differentiating between employed people and not employed people. But to say people who are staying home raising kids are not working isn’t accurate. It’s a word choice issue.
I would 100% rather juggle a job and raising kids than be home full time with my kids – it is not easy!
The SAHMs I know stay busy once their kids are in K – volunteering both at the school and for other causes, doing all of the household and childcare related work, caring for elderly relatives and inlaws, etc. I have a few friends who are SAHMs and she and her husband split childcare but all household tasks – ranging from managing finances to scheduling appointments to cooking dinner to running errands to cleaning – are her jobs. In families with two working parents, often parents both have their jobs and do household management tasks, but in SAHM families usually the SAHM is the full time household manager and the husband is the full time breadwinner.
I hate it, too. It devalues all the juggling that those with jobs AND raising kids do.
Sorry, but as a mom with a job outside the home I have to do everything a SAHM mom does on top of my paying job. Not going to feel sorry for those poor, hard-working SAHMs who only have one job instead of two.
“I have to do everything a SAHM mom does on top of my paying job”
That is just not true, especially if the kids are not yet in school. A SAHM is with their kids all day while you’re at work. Plus SAHMs typically have much more in the way of household responsibilities than working moms, because the household is seen as solely her responsibility in a way it’s not for dual working couples. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with choosing to work outside the home and use a nanny or daycare (I do), but to act like you do both the job of a SAHM and an office job is preposterous. The SAHM is doing 40 hours of childcare while you’re doing your 40 hours in the office. You’re both with your kids on nights and weekends.
My kids are in school and so are those of my SAHM peers. My husband does a little housework and yard work but you better believe that I am the one who has to carry the mental load for the entire household, take kids to appointments, drop everything to pick up a sick kid, etc. I have never seen a truly even split of household labor. I know one or two dads who take on more of it than their wives, but they have unusually flexible jobs and their wives’ jobs are very inflexible. Otherwise the mom is doing all the heavy lifting and invisible labor whether or not she works outside the home. Biology makes it inevitable. We are the ones who have to go to prenatal appointments, figure out child care because we are the ones who can’t work without it, feed the baby from our own body, take the baby to well-child appointments while we are on maternity leave ostensibly recovering from childbirth, etc. The pattern is set early and it’s impossible to fight, no matter how enlightened your husband believes himself to be.
I’m not disagreeing that moms carry more of the mental load in general, but it that doesn’t mean it’s the same division of labor that a SAHM has. For example, (at least in my circles) it’s unusual for families with SAHMs to employ a cleaning service, and nearly universal for dual working parent couples to do so. Or another example is that my husband cooks dinner 4-5 nights per week, and I think he’d likely push back against that more if I didn’t work outside the home.
Those are just a couple of examples, there are plenty more and every family has a different way of dividing up specific chores. But even though most working parents don’t have a perfectly even division of labor, there is generally a lot more balance when the woman works outside the home (not unreasonably so, in my opinion, especially if the kids are school age, but it does add work to the SAHM’s plate that is not on a typical working mom’s plate).
You lost me at the point of ‘it’s inevitable’. Even splits of unpaid work does exist (even the mental load), but it’s not the reality for most families. You have to make some choices that go against the grain.
Who are all these dual-income couples who can afford cleaning services?!?
Meh I run in much less affluent circles than many here and almost every dual working professional couples we know has a cleaning service. I’d give up literally every other discretionary item in my budget before I’d give up my cleaning service, it’s very important to us. But I certainly wouldn’t feel able to justify it if I didn’t work outside the home.
Blunt, but same.
My neighbor is a SAHM and she has a FT nanny that she shares with another SAHM on the street. I feel like I have done time travel back to the 1950s.
Why judge? If it doesn’t impact you personally, who cares?
Yikes. It sounds like you could use a night of relaxing with friends if this is your go-to response. Just because you don’t have the bandwidth to do these things, it doesn’t mean that she’s doing this *at* you or other working moms. FWIW, I work FT and I have kids and I would love an invite like this from the neighbors!
It’s also a good time for everyone to remember that a lot of this holiday hubbub is optional. Now that I have kids, I have a few traditions that I devote energy to and the other things (office secret santas, holiday parties of all types, extra kid-focused stuff) I am happy to join in on if I have the bandwidth but also I am okay skipping if I don’t. I do minimal decorating (and only do it with my kids) and I order every single Christmas gift online to cut down on errands. My closest girlfriends and I do a mid-January gift swap and holiday party. This both alleviates some of the craziness of December but also gives us something fun and festive to look forward to in the dark, cold month of January.
That being said, I feel for you having work travel in December. That does sound hectic and miserable. My company does hardly any travel after mid-November, and I am thankful for that — and I think more companies should do this.
Chiming in to repeat: Pretty much everything about the holidays, when you get right down to it, is optional. When my kid was grown and out of the house, I declared ALL of it optional and I never looked back. Some years I do a tree, some years I don’t. Same with cards, gifts, entertaining, you name it. It’s all a lot more fun when it isn’t mandatory.
+1. I grew up in an Indian immigrant household. Christmas was not a holiday we celebrated; our parents got us a few gifts but we almost never had a tree, never hosted holiday parties (we did host parties around Indian holidays, like Diwali), didn’t send out holiday cards, etc. And so I never felt the need or the desire to celebrate as an adult, either. It was only after having children that I accepted buying and decorating a tree (and we do buy them gifts). But otherwise I don’t exchange gifts with any other friends or family members, nor do I send out cards or host parties. It’s just not my holiday. I’m happy that others love to celebrate it, though!
fwiw – I used to be more bitter about this and over time realized how limiting it is to restrict your social group to those who are in the same boat as you. maybe a quick stop by between errands would be a mood lifter. I tried to switch my “MUST BE NICE” thoughts to “good for her, may or may not be for me.”
… and honestly, having friends who are sahm when your kids get older and have to be driven to activities is great for purely selfish reasons.
Yep, when your kids are in school it’s really great to know moms who stay at home or have less demanding jobs. I have a very flexible work schedule and have become the mom who runs an informal camp-like play date for a bunch of my kids’ friends on the random days off school. I love it – my only child is in heaven with a house full of playmates – and I know the other moms really appreciate it because it saves them money and stress. Obviously don’t befriend a SAHM just to use her for childcare, but there is definitely a lot of value in being friendly with moms who work less or have more flexible schedules than you do.
Yes! My mom taught at the district we went to, so we had the same schedule 95% of the time. But, for the few teacher work days or conference days a year having friends with SAHMs was great!
Just decline the invite and move on. I’m not sure why the post…
As an aside, you are not the only working woman on the street. I was a SAHM for a while and let me assure you I worked!
This isn’t a summons. I’d go to this party and I work full time. She’s not having the party to make you feel bad, she’s inviting you!
FWIW I never have parties like this on weekends.
This is how I felt every end of year while my kids were in elementary school. I know, I know, it’s not nice to be snarky when someone is just trying to plan a holiday party but still….every single time I found myself rushing around in my heels, trying to just keep it all together, there was always a group of SAHMs planning elaborate holiday thing for the kiddos and well yes…it irked me.
Would you rather the kids *dont* get invited?
Op, I get the feeling, but I work full-time and would love an invitation to hang out on a Wednesday night! To each their own.
+1. I would gladly pop in to this party, and for stuff like this, I actually prefer a weeknight vs. a weekend.
Me too! And if I had an early morning the next day, I would just skip the wine and enjoy the company, and head home early. If it’s not for you, then just decline, but this isn’t preposterous in any way.
I’m with you, I find it annoying when people try to schedule extra social obligations at this time of year. I had to shut this down on a charity I’m involved in. We’re already having a meeting and a holiday party in December. We’re not also scheduling a social happy hour. Three evening events in one month for one org is a lot any time of year, you’re off your rocker to try that in December.
Wow this is so rude. Like sorry someone dared to offer you hospitality? I work a whole job and I still make plans after work just because you don’t doesn’t mean she did anything wrong.
I find it a bummer to be invited to Christmas things some time too- I have no less than 7 holiday parties at work alone I’m expected to go to and my December is a gigantic pile of overdose-on-mandatory-cheer-introvert burnout.
Not gonna join the pile on because you sound like you could use a hug, OP. I’d suggest actually telling her a short version of what you told us “Gosh, I’d LOVE to participate but I just have too much going on this month. If it were Jan or Feb I’d be all about it! Have fun and have a drink for me!”
The holidays are super stressful for some, and it seems like you might feel a little left out of the group.
I know this is just anonymous venting. I will say that I generally started having a better time in life when I started assuming good or neutral intentions.
I get what you’re saying, but I don’t see how an invite could be assumed to be anything BUT good intentions though. I understand being sad or annoyed because you didn’t get invited to something, even if it wasn’t personal. But she WAS invited.
I don’t know, the OP seems to be partially upset because she seems to feel like the inviter hasn’t completely taken her life circumstances into account.
I could understand that if it was like 2 pm on a Tuesday, but the vast majority of working moms I know attend weeknight stuff! Especially a low key thing at a neighbor’s house.
Okay! It’s cool if you’re mad at the OP no matter what. It’s clear most are. I am just trying to give her a little grace. Shrug.
I’m not “mad” at OP, but I think it’s a weird to take to say the inviter hasn’t taken her life circumstances into account. I can understand feeling that way if the event had been during normal business hours, but I don’t understand why a weeknight event excludes working parents.
I read this differently than everyone else did. Depending on your job, year-end can be absolute insanity. One job I had, I simply couldn’t get out before about 8 pm in mid-December. There is just a lot to do this time of year, and it can be frustrating to want to participate but not really be able to (come flying into her driveway on two wheels, having had a microwave lunch bowl to eat all day, hair and makeup haven’t been touched up, more crazy awaits you in 10 hours). Oh, and your spouse is worked to the bone, too, so does he really want to take the kids for ladies night?
Then you wonder if everyone looks at you askance for turning down the invite, and if you won’t get invited to the February festivities.
I think that’s probably true for a lot of people, but the way it was written was condescending and disdainful to a SAHM who went out of her way to plan and invite (not summon) OP to a lovely event. That’s why it rubbed people the wrong way.
+1 and I think the reaction would have been different if it had been “ugh another event in December” vs making it specifically about how clueless SAHMs are (which I don’t even get because I know so many working moms who would love a Wednesday wine night).
+2 and I’m a working mom with a demanding job and a spouse with an equally demanding job who certainly does not do his fair share of the emotional and mental labor. It would never occur to me to be bitter about someone sending me an invite for a weeknight event. If I couldn’t go, I’d just thank her for the invite and suggest meeting up some other time.
I read it more as being annoyed she could not go because her life is perceived to be harder than the SAHM’s (we don’t know anyone’s life), which is the real source of unhappiness or snark in the post. Maybe not, but that is the only take that makes any sense to me.
OP, I think your tone came off badly to a lot of people. Some of that is maybe fair, some of it is piling on. Don’t let it ruin your December either way.
Co-sign. This sounds like the sister of the woman who’s always asking for “warm breakfast casseroles” to be brought to the school in the morning for teacher appreciation breakfasts. Lady, I have to get across the city to my job. Please prevail upon your SAHM friends, I do not have time for this chore.
How is inviting someone to an event you’re hosting (where they’re free to decline) the same as pressuring them to make casseroles for a teacher? It’s fine if OP doesn’t want to go to the wine night, but these seem like wildly different scenarios to me.
It just seems like the same sort of cutesy, unnecessary invite/request that I get from Casserole Lady, who is SO confused when I try to explain my lack of availability. How can I be a mother if I can’t show up at the school for 45 minutes smack in the middle of the day. As I’ve said to my MIL, I’m the evil working mother whose job doesn’t magically stop for the holidays.
OP, if it makes you feel any better, I’d respond the same way to the invite. I do not need that nonsense in my life.
But this isn’t in the middle of the workday… I work and would love to go to something like this.
But this isn’t in the middle of the workday… I work and would love to go to something like this.
Yeah I sometimes feel like a working mom martyr because I’m constantly in conflict with my Girl Scout co-leader, who’s a SAHM who thinks it’s reasonable to expect parents to regularly be available before 5 on weeknights. And it would not even register to me to be even mildly offended about this invite. I love weeknight gatherings and while I realize some people don’t, I don’t understand how this is a slight against working moms at all. The majority of working moms I know see friends on weeknights.
Just go to the thing, eat some cookies, drink some tea, skip the drinking, and go home by 9 pm. Relax and have some fun.
Oh girl, you need that glass of wine and a chill night with friends! Take them up on it!
You sound bitter. Being a SAHM is a lot of work. I would love to go to something like that.
I’m starting a new job in a few weeks (yay!) and I want to spend some time to rethink my routines and set up a sort of system for my self at home. I’m taking one week off between jobs and I’ve set aside 1 day to kondo my apartment / deep clean and have plans (both fun things to do during the week – like go to an empty museum and lots of time chilling on my couch) for the rest of the time.
I am redoing my budget, as the new job comes with a nice raise (17%), different benefits, and a different routine (walking to work instead of subway, new gym near the new office).
If you’ve done something similar between jobs, what has been helpful for you? Anything you wish you were incorporating into a routine?
What’s most helpful to me between jobs is focusing on the fun stuff – getting away for an overnight or two, seeing friends, making fun plans in my city. I’ve never benefited from using the time off to clean or organize or sit on the couch. I always feel MUCH more refreshed if I focus on the fun/using the time for a real break and then trust that the routines will sort themselves out as I get used to it. Part of the reason for this is that I’ve been burned in the past by “setting up the new routine” in advance and then discovering it doesn’t actually work with the train schedule or what have you. It works better for me to see how the new job, commute, etc. pans out and then the routine takes care of itself.
Yeah normally between jobs I like to go all in on fun things, but I am so run down right now. For reference, I normally sleep 8 hours a night but recently I’ve been sleeping 10-12 and napping on weekends. So, I also want to give my body time to recover and rest up before the job! I have 5 days off of work between jobs (Wednesday – Sunday, starting new job on Monday).
My current job is actually pretty normal – not stressful and I don’t work more than 40 hours a week (new job is this way too), so it’s not that I’m run down from this job in particular. Just tired.
I would set aside a few days in the middle of your time off to reflect on goals/aspirations as well as any losses/challenges you’ve experienced. You may find meditation, tarot cards, prayer, or a day in nature helpful to kick start your thinking.
I find reflection extremely challenging during busy or chaotic seasons of life- in times of transition, I am much more open-minded and able to see my life in the big picture.
I left big law a couple years ago to go in house. I hate being in house! It is so boring! I want to go back to a firm! I don’t want to go back to my old firm, though (the sane partner retired right after I left, and the group seems to be struggling).
I’m relatively senior (would be a senior associate if I were still at my firm) and am worried firms won’t want to take a chance on me. If relevant, strong resume (including the title/responsibilities at the in house role).
Ideally, I would find a firm that would be open to a part-time role as either an associate or counsel, as I’ve got kids I would still like to occasionally see, so that adds complexity. That being said, money is not really a concern as long as there is some; work I genuinely like is the goal.
(Yes, I’m sure it’s not “just my company”—I really liked being at a firm but was just looking for a lifestyle job. Turns out I hate every aspect of being in house! I would also hate government, FWIW.)
Any advice? Anyone done this?
I’m a law firm partner and know several friends/colleagues over the years who have done this. No shame at all – I personally don’t have it in me to go in-house. The idea of not billing time sounds nice, but I actually really like what I do and flexibility. I’d start by reaching out to friends your age in your city who are at mid-size to larger firms and feel them out. Or you could reach out to the sane partner and get his input.
lawyer here. do not want this to sound snarky but what’s the advice? as this reads it doesn’t sound like you have actually attempted to go back to a firm? have you actually applied? i don’t know what your area is or where you live but plenty of firms hire more seniors associates?
Good question, and no snark taken. At my old firm, we typically did not bring on folks who had gone in house (unless they were known to be partner material or had previously worked at the firm). We did hire lateral senior associates, but we looked for consistent big law experience (or equivalent clerkship/valuable government work). Two years of in house work just is not the same as two years of big law work, even if the in house work is objectively interesting.
If you’re saying that’s not actually a concern, amazing! One less thing to think about as I network for a job.
I’m the anon from above. Again, without more specifics hard to say exactly but I do think firms hire senior associates especially in the slightly more esoteric areas of practice. also, for what it’s worth, i don’t put too much stock in general rules or trends. Like i had always heard it was so hard to go back if a woman stepped off to have kids or that it was so hard to go back to private sector from public etc etc and i think it’s over stated. even if they don’t always hire doesn’t mean you won’t be able to find something that makes sense for you. good luck! life is too short to not be happy at work imo.
This comment made me think of a wonderful program called OnRamp Fellowship. It offers one year paid fellowships at top firms (also has in house opportunities) for experienced lawyers who may have taken a career hiatus.
I mean this is very market and practice area and economy dependent so IDK how many people can help. FWIW I feel for you as someone who could pushed out of firm life as a senior associate and government was all I could land and then I got stuck there for long enough that I was unmarketable. So I’d say get out ASAP if you’ve decided it isn’t for you. The longer you stay, the more firms won’t take a chance on someone senior with no book.
But I would think about the fact that unless you are ready and willing to be a partner at some point and generate business, going back to firm life is only going to realistically last for a few more years unless you are in a very niche area. I fully understand wanting to go back to do the work you want to do but realistically ninety nine percent of law firm careers are only going to be successful and last a long time if you’re willing and able to generate a book. Otherwise you just get to senior and expensive to be kept on as a worker bee.
Have you considered a boutique firm in your speciality? It can have all the perks of Big Law-interesting work, good clients, good pay, with way more flexibility. My husband and I both moved from Big Law to boutique law (and now to tiny boutique law-it’s just us), and the lifestyle + minimal overhead is really amazing. I will always, always be grateful for the training and experience we both received from Big Law, not to mention the instant credibility, but I am constantly amazed that I can make so much money working as little as I do now. I work full-time, but it is nothing compared to Big Law hours.
You can offer to take a class year back.
It really depends on practice but I see plenty of hires from in house.
I returned to a firm from in-house, and I know others who have done so as well, so I definitely think it’s possible. My in-house experience was seen as a positive that would help me better serve clients. I was asked why I would want to return to the billable hour after going in-house so I would recommend having a good answer at the ready. My response was that I missed the sophisticated, challenging work you get in a firm, as my in-house role had become occasional challenging projects and a lot of boring work. Due to the area in which I practice, it was understandable that it would be very hard to find an in-house role that provided a regular stream of that level of work and that response seemed to satisfy everyone who asked.
That is exactly why I want to go back. Thank you for saying “yep, been there, done that.” I was worried about sinking a lot of energy into something that might be a complete dead end.
Venting…
Out of my ~300 person company, not one single woman, self included, was promoted to the next level within my current role level (think Director to Senior Director). I find it incredibly hard to believe none of the eligible women (~30% of the total employees at this level) earned a promotion. All the promotions at this level went to men. I’m not saying the guys didn’t work hard and earn the promo, it’s just incredibly hard to see myself staying at an org where we aren’t given the same opportunities or career development.
I’ve been in so many conversations with leadership this year on how to attract and retain women. This is why we leave!
FWIW, I work at a consulting firm and here it’s generally 1-3 years at one level before getting promoted to the next.
Oh gosh, that is really demoralizing. I’m sorry that happened to you, and think you are totally justified in venting and being annoyed. It’s also fairly surprising that a large firm wouldn’t have someone in HR flagging it. If you raised the gender balance to leadership, would they be sympathetic (and potentially correct for it next year)?
Thanks for the validation. There is a DEI and HR rep, both women, who sit in on all decisions and are supposed to call out issues, concerns, etc.
Hot take: in this day and age, there are very few reasons to “have conversations” about attracting and retaining women. Interview them, assess them on the same scale as their male peers, don’t discriminate because she might want to pop out kids, pay them the same as men, evaluate them the same way, and promote them.
Sure if you’re a plumbing company, it might be hard to find women plumbers. It might be hard to find women who want to go up to the North Slope of Alaska. Standard office jobs, however, aren’t hurting for women. That’s a cultural issue and one that leadership probably does not want to solve.
You live in some sort of ideal world but my profession is ABSOLUTELY hurting for women and people of color. That’s why we’re making the effort. We looked at the numbers. OP just said her workforce was only 30% women, and clearly less than that at the Senior level.
No, I don’t live in an “ideal world.” When I started engineering school, 10% of engineers were women. So LOL to me living in some fairy world.
You completely missed my point AND misread her. She said that 30% of women at her level are women and none of them got promoted.
Please, please, please point that out in your exit interview when you leave! And you absolutely should leave.
When a company shows you who they are, believe them.
I would definitely ask this / point this out in an all-hands forum, anonymously, of course. It’s a very bad look.
I’d also ask my direct manager about this. Managers due bubble up stuff that folks are oblivious about. I’d also ask when the last time the company did a pay equity audit. Chances are that all those overachieving men are also getting paid more than you too.
I also recommend the book Glass Walls if you want to suggest this for your company’s next book club book.
Hang in there, but find somewhere better soon.
My experience is that even if a company like this starts getting more diverse with hires, it takes much longer to see fair opportunities for growth and it’s even harder when it comes to murkier things like getting recognized with a higher title for succeeding when given these opportunities. You are better off finding a new company than continuing where pay and promotion inequities will only become more pronounced over the course of your career. You only have so many peak earning years, so spend them where you’re likely to see the greatest growth in title and pay–your smarter peers are. I say this as someone near 50 who looks back at 14 years that I spent (two jobs ago) at a company that never recognized me with the same promotion opportunities as several male colleagues doing identical work (think of them as being made a director and me staying a senior manager doing the same projects and then some). I only recently made it to a VP level at my current company while they have held VP roles at other companies for at least a decade. Not having advancement within the current company isn’t just holding you down now, it can affect your total advancement and earning potential well into the future. The reality is that someone who already has “X” title will have an an easier time maintaining that level and advancing to the next rung than those who don’t.
thanks for the comments on the cookie baking for my post this morning. i don’t think it is realistic for me to bake all the cookies (like 6 dozen rolled out cut with cookie cutters) the morning of the party on saturday while doing everything else. i was surprised so many people said to bake them morning of. how do you make time for that while getting ready for an event?
If you have to make that many, I’d choose a different recipe that’s less time-intensive.
You don’t. You make them ahead. I feel like most of the people answering that thread don’t bake regularly. When you’re baking that many cookies, it’s just not practical to make them all right before serving. You’re feeding kids, not Paul Hollywood. You could make the dough on Thursday and bake half then and half Friday or half on Friday or half on Saturday or make some the weekend before and freeze, though that will require a decent amount of freezer space. As long as you store them well, they’ll be fine.
I do. I just get up early. Everything else is done. I just have to set a timer. It’s not that hard.
+1. I bake the day of. You could also bake 2 days ahead and freeze, but if you have any bakers coming THEY WILL KNOW if the cookies were baked 2 days before. ;)
No truly they wouldn’t.
And hopefully they have good enough manners not to say a word about that.
I’m a baker and can usually tell, but I still love cookies that someone else made for me and would enjoy them just the same!
Oh my gosh they won’t know. If someone cares that much they can either get over it or stop coming to my parties
lol. If they come to my gathering they’ll KNOW those cookies came from a cardboard box with the Trader Joe’s logo…
Appreciate the Paul Hollywood reference, but I’m not a pro and I really think cookies should be baked at most one day before. Two day old cookies will taste stale to anyone with taste buds, and she said the party is for both kids and adults.
I think it’s fine to choose a less time-intensive recipe though. Plain old chocolate chip cookies are always a crowd-please and take way less time to prepare since you don’t have to roll them out (mixing the dough two days before is fine). If you want something more original, Sally’s Baking Addiction has lots of good drop cookie recipes.
I make 1,440 cookies every Christmas. You can freeze them or eat them within a few days. It’s all fine. I would never bake on the morning of a party
This this this. No one is going to turn down a 2 day old sugar cookie. I bake dozens of dozens, the process takes a few days, then frost for another day. The frosting dries overnight and I pack them up and deliver over a few days. My cookies get rave reviews (not just thanks for cookies, which is all that would be necessary if people didn’t like them).
Believe me, the fancy decorated cookie you pay $5 for at the fancy bakery, was not baked and frosted that morning. (Insider knowledge here).
There are many things that are fine to be made a head of time and reheated. Cookies aren’t listed among them.
Seriously- roll them out on parchment, cut them, remove the scraps, transfer the parchment with your cookies to a tray (you can stack!) and freeze. If you have 3 cookie sheets, they’ll take 30 min to bake.
You’re insane
why are you saying reheated? Decorated sugar cookies aren’t served warm.
I always do everything possible in the days leading up to the party so I don’t have as many last minute tasks. Having said that, I eat cookies all the time that I baked a couple days before and they’re still delicious!
+1 to both
I get EVERYTHING done well before a party, because I don’t like running around the day of.
I also eat days old cookies and think they taste fine.
Yea I don’t understand all these people saying cookies are stale in 2 days–how are you people storing your cookies?! No, they’re not going to be melty, straight out of the oven warm, but if you store them in airtight tupperware containers, they are honestly fine for several days. I say this as someone who once worked in a bakery. Promise you the bakeries are not all making every single cookie they sell fresh that morning.
I was about to say— who’s going to tell these posters that professional bakers don’t bake their cookies and cakes the day of sale or delivery, either….
I was just thinking that. When you buy a bakery decorated sugar cookie, it very much was not baked that morning. People on here are wild.
+1. My family is a “cookie tray” family. They’re good until they get too hard to bite into.
+1. These replies are wild. I do a lot of baking, and of course I’ll try to make things as close to the time needed as possible, but I sure as heck wouldn’t be doing it the day I hosted ANYTHING. That’s an unreasonable standard and making things harder than they need to be.
Honestly I’d just do easier cookies. Like these: https://smittenkitchen.com/2016/05/confetti-cookies/
Make the dough in advance and bake day of.
Making dough is the messy, time intensive part. The actual baking is easy. Saturday morning you just preheat the oven, throw your dough balls onto a cookie sheet, and toss them in the oven. Use parchment paper and you won’t have any cleanup. It takes little time or attention unless you’re trying to ice them afterward.
She’s doing cookies that have to be rolled out and cut with cookie cutters. That’s the time-consuming part, and is why people are suggesting a simpler recipe.
Disagree. It takes 10 minutes to whip up a simple batch of cookie dough (I use a scale so I just dump all the ingredients into the bowl, no measuring cups). If you’re baking six dozen cookies, that’s at least three batches in the oven of around 10 minutes each, and you have to rotate pans and keep checking to make sure they don’t burn and find somewhere for them all to cool (add more time if you don’t have enough pans to have each batch ready to go when one comes out of the oven). And that’s not even including the cut out part, which adds a lot more time and mess.
OK, I’m pretty good with rollout cookies, and this is what I’d do. Make your dough Thursday or earlier in the week. It can stay in the fridge for a couple of days and it’ll be fine; longer than that, and I’d freeze it. Cut out, bake, and decorate your cookies on Friday. Allow enough time for the frosting to dry before putting them in a sealed container. Take out Saturday for the party. They will be FINE and taste great, I promise. They will not get stale overnight, sheesh.
Rollout cookies are a labor of love because you can’t just do them in one fell swoop. And I would DEFINITELY not be doing that project the day guests are coming over.
omg. no one does. all of the bakers bake the cookies ahead of time.
Sometimes I think this site feeds some people’s rampant perfectionist tendencies.
Bakeries sell “day old” goods at a discount for a reason. Everything you buy at a good bakery was made that morning.
This just isn’t true. Sometimes they’ll sell day old goods on items that truly cannot be preserved in air-tight containers, but they do not make every single item fresh every single day. Chocolate chip cookies and ESPECIALLY iced sugar cookies last more than one day.
+1 yeah I’m a pretty low key hostess (I think?) and I’m not afraid to serve Trader Joe’s apps and stuff like that in place of homemade, but two day old cookies are going to taste weird. Storebought cookies would be preferable to stale homemade cookies IMO.
It depends on the cookies. I get holiday cookies from a family friend who definitely doesn’t make them the day she gives them away and they are amazingly delicious and I also can’t stop eating them for days after.
A store bought decorated sugar cookie is going to be at least 2 days ofd if not older.
Has anyone left a job because of terrible administration even if you like your work and coworkers? When did you know it was time?
My firm has been growing in attorneys but reducing non-attorney staff. Some of my issues include:
– We went to a pooled resource model for paralegals and assistants a few years ago and it’s as horrible as any practitioner would expect and as cost effective as any CFO would hope. You get a different person every time who possibly has never even worked with a litigator.
– Our billing department is so disorganized it’s impacting my client relationships. Recently, a client with 30+ open matters was sent a nastygram about not paying an invoice (for less than one billable hour) that they were never sent. The firm never told me about these letters (I found out from the client, which is embarrassing) and I get no response/acknowledgment when I ask them to please involve me in any correspondence with my clients.
– Our marketing department seems determined to limit our marketing efforts. They fight me on things that they explicitly tell us to contact them for; for example, they told us to send gifts to clients, but when I place my order, I’m told no, and I have to go round and round for days and escalate up the chain to finally get the thing that every partner is supposed to get.
– Clearing conflicts takes days or weeks. My potential new clients are not waiting 2+ weeks to see if I can take the case, they’ve already hired someone else by then. Even clearing conflicts on new matters for existing clients takes days.
This is time consuming and exhausting on a nearly daily basis. It feels like staff resources are only for certain partners and everyone else is a second class citizen; I know a few partners who are shocked that I have these issues, but more deal with the same nonsense. I’m not a brand new partner but I am fairly junior, I know my book is not huge yet but it’s hard to see how I can grow with all these issues. Maybe this is how all firms operate?
Yes, I left because of terrible management and terrible administration. I could no longer do my job effectively or manage my staff effectively because executive management and administration were getting in the way. I was not the only one to leave for these reasons.
Yikes. I would go to your partner mentor or managing partner and clearly lay out the issues and ask for their perspective on what is supposed to happen. Out of what you’ve listed, #2 and #4 seem most egregious, with #4 impacting the ability of the firm to take on new clients, so maybe start there? If clearing conflicts is supposed to take X days but you are consistently encountering 2X or 3X, then you need to be more assertive with the conflicts group about progress (squeaky wheel and all that). But if you’re told that there are not really any issues with your experience, then you have to decide whether to take your skills elsewhere or just put up with these frustrations.
Oh I’ve had many conversations with many different partners about these issues. The very senior partners are shocked, everyone else is like yeah this is par for the course. With conflicts, at this point I send through everything as a rush, which I hate to do but it’s the only way to get a turnaround within 2 days. And this is for a simple check. If something requires clearing then I’ll reach out to the partner of the potentially conflicting client, I don’t wait for the conflicts people to do it.
Yes! I’m a lawyer in what can most easily be described as an in house role. I loved where i was, enjoyed the work and my colleagues but “the man”/ HR?/ Admin were just impossible (about time and hours in the office and taking a lunch break or going to the doctor midday) that I changed jobs. My new jobs is much less interesting (hence my increased involvement in this site :)) but i’m closer to home, remote two days a week, and generally come and go as needed. Only you will know if it’s worth it but for me it definitely was!
Do you work for my firm?
This is bad. I agree with going to the managing partners and raising holy hell. Better if you AND someone else can do it.
It’s time for you to leave Goodwin, and I support you doing so.
FWIW, nearly all biglaw firms moved to pooled support staff models and it’s a real nightmare. And the paralegals who used to train newbies don’t want to, so the newbie paralegals are truly not up to par.
Take your book elsewhere.
I assume that partners with a B2 above a certain amount don’t experience these issues? Is there an equity (DEI, not $) angle here?
Ugh, accidentally posted this on the moms page but would love some advice on dealing with a senior colleague who is unintentionally a pain in the neck to work with.
How do you deal with a colleague who sends you large, complex assignments via long, complex emails that really should’ve been meetings instead? (Honestly, didn’t even know this could be a thing until I worked with this person.) What she is asking for is reasonable to expect my team to do, but it often comes at the 11th hour and the content area isn’t in our wheelhouse, so everything takes longer to turn around. She also expects lots of drafts and revisions, so it snowballs quickly.
And, I’m not sure if it’s her writing style or what, but it takes me forever to figure out what she’s even asking for. It’s this huge, unhelpful information dump every time. She is technically senior to me, so I try to make it work but it is just not a smooth process and it’s happened multiple times now. I always ask clarifying questions and usually end up suggesting that we video chat, but she has a ton of meetings so I get replies at weird times, further delaying the whole thing and further stressing me out. I think she probably doesn’t call a meeting because she doesn’t have time.
She’s a nice person but I can’t stand working with her because I think she thinks she’s being helpful, when really it’s chaotic. And it’s hard to delegate to anyone on my team when I don’t even understand what she’s looking for.
Help. How do I work with this person?
Do you work in the same location? Could you check her calendar and then walk over to her office to get clarification in person?
We do not, unfortunately. That’s probably part of the problem.
Ah gotcha. And of course she’s never able to answer her phone, I bet.
One thing I’ve tried is emailing people the way I want to be emailed. So, in response to one of her long-winded emails, I’d respond with something much shorter – bullet points with what I understand the project to be, our internal timeline, when she can expect to see a draft, etc. I’ve had mixed results? But it might help.
Are you senior enough at your company so that you can set expectations with her, even if she is technically senior to you? Let her know your planned turnaround time and the information needed to do the assignment. If it’s hard to predict in advance what kind of information you will need, request that she set up a meeting for each project kickoff. Also request that your team get looped in earlier.