Coffee Break – Envelope Laptop Case in Faux Croc Effect
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Sales of note for 2/14/25 (Happy Valentine's Day!):
- Nordstrom – Winter Sale, up to 60% off! 7850 new markdowns for women
- Ann Taylor – Up to 40% off your full-price purchase — and extra 60% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + 15% off (readers love their suiting as well as their silky shirts like this one)
- Boden – 15% off new season styles
- Eloquii – 300+ styles $25 and up
- J.Crew – 40% of your purchase – prices as marked
- J.Crew Factory – 50% off entire site and storewide + extra 50% off clearance
- Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 40% off last-chance styles
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Flash sale ending soon – markdowns starting from $15, extra 70% off all other markdowns (final sale)
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- My workload is vastly exceeding my capability — what should I do?
- Why is there generational resentment regarding housing? (See also)
- What colors should I wear with a deep green sweater dress?
- How do you celebrate milestone birthdays?
- How do you account for one-time expenses in your monthly budget?
- If I'm just starting to feel sick from the flu, do I want Tamilfu?
- when to toss old clothes of a different size
- a list of political actions to take right now
- ways to increase your intelligence
- what to wear when getting sworn in as a judge (congrats, reader!)
- how to break into teaching as a second career
So… all these recent marriage discussions have this engaged-girl thinking. Anecdotally, if you were in a marriage that didn’t work out, was hindsight 20/20? Did you come into the marriage with the problems that caused the divorce? If you’re still married, what are you doing that you think works? Do you have any marriage advice? I know there’s no magic answers (my parents divorced after 30 years), just looking for different stories/experiences.
My husband and I went to a marriage conference a few months ago, and I realized that one of the things he said is most important in a marriage is something that we’ve been doing since the beginning. And I truly think I have one of the best marriages of anyone I know.
So, basically, he said that you need to talk to your husband every day about what’s going on in your life, kind of decompress after your day. He said people will try to go on a date night, but if they aren’t talking to each other on a regular basis, they’re suddenly like, “What are we supposed to talk about?” My husband and I cook a quick meal together almost every night, during which we talk about work, life, friends, etc., and I think it keeps us strong and really well connected.
The reason cooking a meal together is good is because it’s a dedicated 30 minutes just to talk to each other. Otherwise, people end up doing their own thing in the house, eating on their own, grabbing take out and watching a TV episode, etc. But any activity that allows you to have a dedicated couple-talk-time will do the trick.
I hope this is helpful!
I agree that cooking together is a great way to keep a marriage healthy. It also re-enforces the feeling that we’re living life together, helps us sync up, and reminds us that we really do enjoy doing routine/mundane tasks with each other vs. alone. We’ve also instituted walking-and-talking “dates” when the weather is nice. We just go on a short walk around the neighborhood after dinner, with the sole purpose of just talking to each other. The short walk almost always turns into a long walk, because it’s nice to just spend the time together, without an agenda of romance, serious discussions, or “trying”. It’s about just being together, and when you’re comfortable with that, the marriage is definitely stronger.
So darn sweet!
We go on walks too! They’re the best. :)
I used to spend time decompresing with Alan. He would tell me ALL about his work in the goverment as an Acountant, and I would tell him ALL about my day at work with the manageing partner.
After a half hour, we would then eat dinner and do other things together, but it was the TALKING that made the relationship good.
Unfortuneately, he started drinking and soon prefered the bottle to me, and once that hapened, he did NOT talk as much, just drank.
I had to boot him out of my apartement, once and for all, once he started bringeing in pornoegraphic magezines. I said, NO MORE, Alan Scheketovits! Out! And that was it for him and us. FOOEY!
We’re all still pulling for you to finally move on, Ellen. How are things going with LARRY?
We’ve been married 5 years and communication is key. We always agreed that if either has a problem to voice it, even if it turns into a nasty fight. Better to speak our minds and deal with the good bad and ugly then to have the marriage explode later. This also avoids repeating the same fight or digging up past issues when faced with a current one. We do our best to compromise and resolve things as they happen.
I love how straightforward this is, b23. I am not married, but in my serious, cohabiting experience this does make a huge difference.
My best friend since childhood is now divorced, and I was so close to her throughout the entire process that I know she wouldn’t mind my summarizing her experience. If she were here, she would say: “He and I both went into it for the wrong reasons, and that became clear when we were seriously considering calling off the wedding about two weeks prior. Our families were skeptical, and we should have listened to them, but nothing was going to stop us. I denied the problems from day one, but they were right there waiting to be acknowledged. Technically, we started talking about divorce due to [specific life circumstance], but that wasn’t really the reason we split. The real reason(s) were entirely predictable.” The marriage lasted about 2 years and ended in an ugly series of fights over…yes, money.
So yes, her hindsight is 20-20, but at the same time there were plenty of warnings from the beginning. They just chose to ignore them. I’m highly interested in other people’s comments.
Not trying to be snarky but who doesn’t talk to their husband/spouse everyday?
Actually, another friend of mine–also now divorced–began explaining it to me by saying that when she came home for the evening her husband usually wouldn’t even look up from his computer screen to say hello. That really stuck with me. I don’t think it’s a given, sadly.
Oh, my husband and I are both busy professionals, and we could easily just sit in front of the TV eating take out and then talk for maybe 2 minutes before bed about our plans for the next day or for the weekend or who was taking the dog to the vet or the kid to his recital, etc. I think it can happen really easily.
So easy to do when you both get home at 9:30 after working 12+ hours.
Ditto. We have to make an effort now. Before kids, having daily chats was easy and routine. Now, I bet we spend less than 10 min a day having a face-to-face conversation that does not focus primarily on kids/schools/dr appts/bills/etc. Biglaw hrs are the killer.
My parents. They live together, and do not speak but maybe once per week, when absolutely necessary.
If children are present, it often seems impossible to have this essential time as a couple. My spouse of almost 40 years and I have been blessed to work at the same universities and have eaten lunch together most days. When the children were at home, it was often the only uninterrupted time we had before bedtime, when we were too tired to converse. He’s still my favorite companion for all activities!
My husband and I eat lunch together at work too! It ends up being 2-3 times a week, and we often are with other people, but the occasion of being together as adults is really great. It reminds me of who he is as a professional, and also lets us have no-kid time nearly daily. Also, we often walk over to get coffee after lunch, which is another nice time together. We also try to have dates on the days we don’t work, even if its for lunch. I could see not talking; sometimes when I’ve had a busy day I really want to be in my own head and too much of that could create distance.
I think this is the American-style of childrearing, perhaps? Where parents allow their entire lives to revolve around their children.
My parents raised me Asian-style, which meant I got plenty of parental attention (from both my parents), but, woe betide the child who would do something as annoying as interrupt my mother (or father) multiple times while s/he tried to talk to the spouse. That’s how they managed to have a life and not be driven up the wall– instilling stronger boundaries than is the current norm.
Whenever I’m out with my parents, and we see a couple trying to have a restaurant meal with their young children (who are not having tantrums, but constantly interrupting), 99% of the time, they give up and just let the children derail any attempt at adult conversation. They look defeated and resentful. My mother will snarkily say, “They’re the parents, they have the control, but if they don’t want to use it, they should not resent the children for their not having any sex anymore.” The first time she said that, I choked on my drink. Funny and mean, but pretty much accurate.
Anon, that is hilarious and so very true. Being childless myself, I don’t (try not to) judge, but I know darn well that if I’d ever behaved like some children I see I would have had a swat on the butt, and we would have left. The parents do have the authority, but SO many these days give it up! (And I know there are now issues with swatting your children in public, don’t get me started.)
On the parental note, both of my parents are attorneys and they stress very strongly the need for evidence before making up one’s mind. Which is great when kids are growing up, gives them (me) a guide to really seeing through the bull sh*t because I’m looking for the evidence. On the other hand, it made them kind of crappy parents of teenagers. I got away with SOOO much stuff (most of which I’m not proud of anymore) just by talking my way out of trouble and since they couldn’t “prove” it…no discipline! Teenagers will say ANYTHING! Maybe my 3 siblings and I were just bad kids, but we all lied to our parents like it was cool. And nobody ever got in trouble, even when we should have, because they couldn’t “prove” my brother had been throwing rocks at the 3rd graders (ok, not a teenager, still a good example) my brother said he didn’t, the school said he did, my parents didn’t have pictures…no discipline! Later, he didn’t get in trouble for spitballing in the boys bathroom because “I was just there, mom, honest, I wasn’t actually doing spit balls!”
Grrrr. :-)
My parents. I don’t understand their relationship. My mom works from home and generally sleeps in, putters around the house, settles down to work around 2pm and works till midnight or so. My dad gets up around 5, reads the paper and goes to work, home around 7, watches tv while eating dinner, then goes to bed while my mom keeps working.
It works for them and they always do things on the weekend, but I do remember once I was there and didn’t see my mom, hung out with my dad, played with their dogs, left. My mom called me the next day asking why I hadn’t come to say hello! I didn’t know she’d moved her office (AGAIN!) from one side of the house to the other, and it didn’t occur to me that she would be there and not come out and say hi herself!
There’s talking and then there’s talking. There’s a robotic, “my day was fine” vs actually looking at the other person and actively listening to see how they really are, and the other person doing the same for you.
The former is what you do when you say hi to the person at the grocery store checkout line. The latter is what one ideally does with one’s spouse. I used to think this was obvious, until I asked a number of divorced friends who all cited poor communication turning into irreconcilable differences. The differences, which might have been interesting and worth a good half-hour’s chat each day over the years, turned into unbridgeable chasms because these couples didn’t really talk to each other.
We work different schedules–I’m days, he’s mostly nights or swing. There are half-weeks where we communicate just on the phone (which isn’t the same as *not* talking, I know). Sometimes we “kiss” by flashing our lights at each other when we drive past–he coming home, me going away.
Oh definitely! My husband and I dated long distance. All we could do was talk on the phone. We would talk for HOURS. Ten years later, we still do this. Other couples are amazed that we talk so much. We always win at the newlywed game because we really know everything about each other because we talk and talk. But our relationship grew this way. We were not able to “date” in the conventional sense — i.e. outings and movies and such. I think keeping talking as our main activity together has strengthened our marriage.
I am so stoked to read this.
Ditto. We’ve been together 7.5 years, are getting married in 2 (!) months, and sometimes I think being long distance was the best thing for us.
My parents are divorced, and during my wedding planning I felt like this a lot. Being from a “broken home” I thought, “Maybe I am just fooling myself into thinking that I am happy in this situation. Did my parents walk in to their marriage thinking that they would get divorced, or were they just as happy as I am right now?”
I think that this line of thinking is both good and bad. Good in that it makes you evaluate what you are doing objectively, looking at the relationship closely. On the other hand, it made me paranoid about my relationship.
I agree with b23 that the most important thing is to continue to communicate. My husband and I also cook dinner together and use that time to talk about our day. Both of our parents are divorced, and we both saw what not communicating can do to your relationship, so I think we both make a concerted effort to maintain communication.
I think some people know that there is something missing in their relationship before they get married, but feel like they are supposed to get married because it is the next logical step. If you feel like you aren’t ready to get married for certain reasons, take a step back and really decide if this is what you want.
Most of my friends are now mid-40s, and I’m surprised at the divorces I’m seeing, after 20 years of marriage and kids in college. I doubt there’s anything you can do at the outset to prevent that from happening down the road. In three of the relationships that I can think of, the economy/jobs situation had something to do with it. Families got split up because of work, or priorities changed when one spouse was out of work for a long time.
I am not post-kids yet, but the marriage conference guy we heard speak said that lack of communication is the reason for these life stage divorces too. He said you have kids and forget to talk to each other, and when you do, you just talk about the kids. Then the kids are gone to college, and you’re left with nothing to say to each other.
I’m not trying to be a one-size-fits-all person, but I really think this advice is so important. It helps you be involved in each other’s lives and stay friends.
That’s so sad!
It’s so common. *Sigh* Why are people so complacent when they have the power to make their own lives (and the lives of those they presumably love) so much better with just a little investment?
SO many of my friends are married and even though I know the divorce rates are not as high as everyone thinks, I still look at the dozens of happy couples I have on my face book and think “will it be you?” I’m not sure why, I think because I can’t imagine ANY of my friends not being married to their spouses! They’re all so happy! There were a few bad breakups prior to marriage but when they each found their mates it was just like “oh yeah, THAT’s why that a**hole jerked them around, so they would be single when they met hubby material!” Still, I wonder, in 10 years, 15?
I just found out that a friends’ parents are separating (their youngest just graduated high school). I was in and out of their house constantly during middle and high school, and they were one of the examples I started looking to for a good marriage once I realized that I really, really did not want my marriage to be like my parents’. It’s a huge blow.
>Most of my friends are now mid-40s, and I’m surprised at the divorces I’m seeing, after >20 years of marriage and kids in college
Yep. People change. It’s not all lack of communication. Life has a way of happening along the way and turning us into different people than we were when we met our spouses.
I’m 47 and just about 50% of my friends in my approximate age range are divorced, some bitterly and some amicably. I realize no one on this board wants to hear it.
It’s certainly not all a lack of communication, but I think when you do make an effort to stay friends, you can sort of change together. I am a pretty different person than when I got married all those years ago, but my spouse still knows me better than anyone. I feel like when people say they’ve changed and want out, it’s mostly that they feel a void between them and their spouses. Suddenly they realize, “We’re both drastically different, and we don’t even know each other anymore.”
Anyway, that’s not the solution to everything, clearly. And you’re right, sometimes the differences are just too big to make up, no matter what. But it is a big part of it.
I obviously care a lot about this issue. Must. Stop. Refreshing. Corporette. :)
this. 100%.
my husband and I have been married 10 years. we are COMPLETELY different people than we were ten years ago and dating. But we have taken great care to change together. Our lives are lived together, not separately. We are both busy professionals, so this is difficult to do. We have less close friendships outside each other because of this, but there is no one else I would rather spend my time with then him.
people wake up twenty years later and say “we have changed” because time is not taken by one or both person to change as a couple rather than as an individual.
Not to be too jaded, but in my experience, men change more than women do as they age. Most of the ex-husbands I know cheated on their wives. Two of them knocked up their mistresses. It may have been a symptom of problems in the marriage, sure, but there is that whole competitive mate-hunting instinct men have. It becomes harder for many of them to resist as they get older and worry about their attractiveness and youth and virility, while life at home (i.e. reality) seems harder and harder as it gets more complicated with kids, mortgages, responsibilities, and their wife not looking as young and hot as she once did.
And then, once they knock up the mistress, their kids have step-siblings in dad’s new home, and their new step mom is a stay at home mom, while first wife had to go back to work or increase the hours she works to make ends meet, and dad and new step-mom have a compelling case for full or primary custody.
Gee…. I guess I am jaded.
For what it’s worth, I’m happily married to my second husband, and my first husband did not leave me for another woman. These really are my friends’ experiences.
I have only been married ten years and am relatively young to draw life conclusions . . . yet I do! :) so here it is!
mamabear, there is never, ever, ever, ever a reason to cheat or an excuse for cheating. Especially today it is SO easy to divorce and end an unhappy marriage. Even so, I find it really, really hard to believe that the majority of ex-husbands who cheated were in a healthy loving marriage and did so because of this “hunting” instinct. I have three friends who cheated on their spouses (two men and one woman). All three of them said they had an unhappy marriage and went to where they found love and attention. I absolutely told all three of them they were stupid and this was no excuse, but I do not believe men (or women) have a hunting instinct as a spouse grows older.
I do, however, believe that many people today think marriage and love is easy. who knows. maybe it is media? our generation? but a marriage is good because both people understand it takes lots of time and lots of hard work. the end.
I just re-read my post. I was not trying to say you were providing an excuse for cheating mamabear! trying to preface that I was not providing that excuse . . . ugh. need to go home!
Well, as I said, no one on this board wants to hear it.
I have to say that actually, every divorce (many) within my circle has been initiated by the wife. Not because of response to cheating or whatever, but because they the,selves were cheating, didnt want to care for a sick spouse, wanted single life back, etc. it’s been very hard to see the guys so distraught, because honestly, I think it takes guys longer to really commit themselves, but when they do that’s it. Sucks.
I’d second the comments about being sure. I had absolutely, positively, not an ounce of doubt getting married. It was just right, and we both knew it.
I feel like we’ve grown together, learning from each other. We are definitely one of those “each other’s best friend” couples just by nature of our lifestyle. But we try too. DH works shifts, and I am in finance, so he comes and takes me to lunch most of his days off, just to cheap local spots, but they’re a day date without our toddler, which is nice!
Married for 11 years, together for 13. Happily. Very happily. What works for us is that we totally “get” each other and are committed for the long haul. We pick our battles and let each other do things we don’t understand (he is a big hunter-I do not get the attraction of that at all. He does not understand my shoe collection.) We are different people with different likes and dislikes, so we complement each other well. Also, s*x. Seriously. The biggest thing is to not take your partner for granted and being physicial and intimate is really important.
Fianlly, Hot Da*n, do I love that man. Still. Madly, Deeply.
Awwww!
This made me smile :)
[subscribing to this thread]
One of the deepest threads I’ve read so far. I don’t even know why I’m so touched.
I am not in a relationship, never been, but coming from a highly dysfunctional family, I am engraving every sentence of these pearls in my memory for that special day when houda too gets a special one.
I’ve been married almost five years. I second all of the above advice about regular communication.
Sadly, though, one of my sisters-in-law is currently starting the process of a divorce. Before they got married, he was immature and didn’t want to get married at all. She gave him an ultimatum and left….eventually, he came crawling back and proposed. So it wasn’t terribly surprising that when things got rough, he bailed. That’s one case, at least, when the basic problem was apparent at the start.
Oh, I should mention that the soon-to-be-ex brother-in-law was in his late 40s when the got married. So it wasn’t a “too young” kind of thing.
You sure? People can be “too young” no matter how old they are.
I have been married for 6 years. I agree that communication is very important. We try to talk about anything that is bugging us right away, rather than letting it build up and build up. We also respect each other and trust each other. We both try everyday to do something nice for the other person, even if it is something really small.
I also agree with a previous poster that s*x is important!!
Our relationship has changed over the years since we have had kids, changed jobs, etc. but the underlying foundation has remained the same–that we really do enjoy each other and we really do respect each other. We are also deeply, deeply committed to making this work. My parents are divorced and I do not want my kids to go through that.
Appelican, if you’re still around, can you give some examples of the small nice things y’all do for each other? I’m always looking for more examples of little gestures.
* I just bought my husband his favorite candy as a result of this thread. :)
i love hearing about how kind and thoughtful you all are toward your SOs.
I usually come home from work later than my SO. The first thing I do when I get home is give him a big hug. It’s usually pretty awkward because he’s always in the middle of something (washing dishes, playing video games, on the phone, reading), but I do it anyway. Second thing I do is pat our kitty on the head. The boys need to know I missed them all day!
Whenever my bf and I see each other after we’ve been away we RUN into a hug. Drop what we’re doing. RUN. 2.5 years together so far. The only times we don’t are if our hands are busy and can’t put whatever down, then the one getting home gives the awkward behind the back hug (and if it’s him usually cops a feel!).
Important note – hug the husband first, pet the kitty (or dog) second :-) My husband gets home first and makes dinner two or three times a week. When I walk in the door, the cats run up to greet me, but he’s usually by the stove and can’t run over. But he really appreciates it when I ignore the cats and head straight to him for a hug.
SC, very very important. I made that mistake once (to be fair the cats met me at the door and he didn’t!) oooooh boy! “I guess I’m just in second place in your life” “I’m just going to have to be content to play second fiddle forever” “Well, I’m glad I can see where your priorities are!” :-)
This reminds me of a rule the hubs and I have – the Kitty Rule. If one of the cats is on your lap, you are exempt from doing pretty much anything that would force you to move. And it’s totally respected and understood between us – no questions asked.
aww forget about how much you guys love your SOs, the kitty love is where it’s at!
Sconnie – just saw this, but my husband and I have the same (understood) rule. If there’s a cat on one person’s lap, we’ll get each other water, answer the door for takeout, hand each other cell phones – pretty much anything. It’s just too cute to ask a person to give up that kitty love!
I cut up the extra hot peppers and put them in my husband’s very own bowl of guacamole, and left a little pile of chopped peppers for him to add to his fajitas. He loves spicy food, but I don’t, so he was super excited to have his spiked guac ready and waiting :)
Not married, but I have a serious boyfriend. We’ve only been together for a year and are in that transitional ‘unofficially-living-together-sleep-together-every-night-but-not-all-my-stuff-is-there’ phase. I don’t have the wisdom of someone who’s married, but we have been together long enough to develop our little ways of letting the other person know we care.
My BF works crazy hours and one of strange things he stresses about due to his wacky schedule is whether or not he’s able to leave work in time to pick up or drop off his drycleaning. When I know he’s having a particularly hectic week (or when I see a pile of dress shirts on the floor and remember), I’ll drop off/pick up his drycleaning for him without him asking. He LOVES it.
One of the things he does for me that I love is that he always takes a minute in the morning to sit down with me in bed and say goodbye before he leaves for work. I’m normally still in bed, either asleep or half awake, and he’ll be fully dressed in his suit, ready to run out the door, but he always sits with me for a minute and says goodbye. If I’m too tired/grumpy/sleepy to wake up and communicate with him, he puts this giant teddy bear he got me once as a joke on the bed with me as a “sign” that he said bye. It’s silly but sometimes those sleepy little moments make his really long workdays bearable.
I love this. SO sweet. My husband did something similar when we were dating.
Some of the things that he does for me: makes coffee for me in the morning, unloads the dishwasher (I especially love this on the nights he works late, because it makes dinner clean up so much easier for me!), runs to the grocery store late a night when I realize I am out of something, or puts gas in my car, just little stuff to make my life easier. He is also always giving me hugs and kisses randomly which I love.
Some of the things I do for him: back rubs, stuff in the bedroom (I’m sure you can figure that out), folding his work clothes the particular way he likes, watching the kids while he plays softball with his buddies, picking up his favorite beer, taking lunch to him at work.
We both also send little texts throughout the day, just saying I miss you or I love you.
my husband and I leave notes for each other — in lunches, bathroom mirrors, suitcases when there is a business trip, etc. turns out that he has saved EVERY note for ten years! wow. he keeps them in a little lunch box under his side of the bed. nearly cried when I found that. He tells me sometimes that I make him feel like the best man in the world. Well, honestly, he is the very best man I have ever known. Letting him know constantly what a great man he is (I think) makes him try harder to be a great husband. it is a fabulous circular thing . . .
AWWWWWW *tear*
He is so sentimental, I love it!
I was dating someone who would tuck me into bed at night. Yes, a grown woman enjoyed this lol. Walk me to bed, tuck me in, goodnight kiss. Then he would return to the living room to do like 3 hours of more work. Something about it made me feel very secure.
This thread is making me text my boyfriend to tell him I love him.
My marriage failed, but I have to say that my ex really pretended to be completely different than what he was, prior to our marriage. About the time I got pregnant (planned pregnancy, not a surprise), it was like he became a different person. Maybe because he knew then I wouldn’t leave? Constant mean, belittling remarks, I later found out he started cheating on me around then also, and the cheating continued for the next 9 years. Counseling didn’t work because he was not honest with the counselor. My advice is to make sure you know who you are marrying, and if you see any red flags, take some time to evaluate. Pre-marital counseling is a good idea, I think. In my situation, there was one big red flag, that looking back I realize should have made me run. He had an 8 year old son from a previous marriage, and one evening while we were dating we were out shopping at a grocery store. The little boy was sitting in the cart, thoughtlessly swinging his legs. He accidentally kicked my ex once, my ex yelled at him not to do it again, and we went on. The little boy did it again, not a hard kick, but he just wasn’t thinking, and my ex slapped him, hard. The slap was just so uncalled for, and seemed so out of character. I was so shocked, and we actually did break up for a few days, but I ended up taking him back, and still going through with the marriage. Of course, I got my son out of it, and that was worth all of the pain and heartache, but just keep your eyes open. Try to honestly evaluate what kind of person he is. Recognize he might be putting on a false front for you, and try to see past it, to his essential personality. Some people can be very charming on the surface, but not so nice underneath. I guess I would also say, make it clear up front that you won’t tolerate being treated poorly. I let a lot of little things slide, until I got to the point that I just couldn’t stand him (of course I didn’t know about the cheating, that was a big thing that ended our marriage when I found out about it). Sorry this is so long, I still have a lot of issues I need to work through, I think.
Wow, you really did marry a doosh. I have to watch out for this b/c the men I date say anything to get sex, but they are NOT sincere for a longterm relationeship. I want to be MARRIED, not just have sex, so it is NOT easy for me.
DH & I have been married for 17.5 years, and we’ve had some tough times. We got married young, so we went through school & the stress that comes with exams, final projects, etc. We had 3 miscarriages before having 3 successful pregnancies. Mental health issues, near bankruptcy, unemployment, numberous moves, etc.
However, our marriage is very strong, and not to sound like a broken record, but I believe communication is key to that. There is absolutely nothing I couldn’t talk to him about, and he feels the same about me. Also important, imo, is to continue to date your spouse – especially after kids. It takes more work but it is very important to be able to connect as a couple. Finally, always consider your spouse before making a decision that will affect them. We consult with each other on almost everything. From little things like making plans for the evening to big things like career changes. I believe people are naturally selfish, and by always considering your spouse it helps keep that selfishness in check.
All of this is such great advice! I’m so glad the OP asked this question. I love to learn from what other people have done right (and wrong).
I am 34 and have been married for 7 years but I have known my husband since I was 15. I can honestly say that he is my best friend in the whole world and he has been there for me through more than half of my life and I can’t imagine living my life without him in it. I think the key to a lasting marriage is that there is a true friendship at the core.
I was married for a year and a half in my late 20s, and I can absolutely say that problems going into the marriage were the same that ultimately caused the divorce. In my case, it was the classic “he’s such a nice/good guy, we’re best friends, I love watching American Idol and eating ice cream with him, we’ve been together for 4 years and now we’re in our late 20s and we live together and we should probably get married, but there is zero chemistry and he might as well be my brother.” That whole chemistry thing? Did NOT get better after we got married. If anything, I felt trapped and panicked, which made resent him and killed any last chemistry we might have had. So, don’t do that, y’all.
This could be a carbon copy of my early-twenties marriage story. It was such a sad thing to have happen, because it was preventable, but I was too weak to admit we shouldn’t get married and I was too stubborn to quit the relationship. I feel pretty awful still for leaving the marriage because of how hurtful it was for everyone involved. All I can say is, that if you have doubts, go to couple’s workshops, therapy, etc. and heed the warning signs. I deeply regret not doing so.
“the whole chemistry thing did not get better after marriage”
Ha Ha someone should tell all of the south asian mothers out there trying to ram arranged marriage down their daughters throats
Really? From my completely unscientific survey, arranged marriages are only as bad as these so called love marriages. The unhappiness rate is equal in both situations ironically.
Holy cow! You just described my own experience. I got married in my late 20s to a guy that I had been dating for 3 years. We were great friends and got along so well. He never wanted to get married (ideologically), but I did, so we tied the knot. We were best friends. He was a nice/great guy, but there was no chemistry. We rarely had sex (before the marriage) so after the marriage had even less sex. It also didn’t help that we both work long hours, but he seemed to value his job over all else in our lives.
Our relationship was completely platonic. And after 2 years, I felt so unloved, in a romantic way, that I had to end it. All the problems we had while dating were amplified in the marriage – when I had even higher expectations. Even worse, when I suggested going for counseling while dating, he refused. We went to counseling at the end, but it was too late.
Go to counseling now – to at least make sure you are on the same page. You need to communicate about what you find to be problems, what he finds to be problems, and how you work them out (or through/over them). You also need to agree on what problems you are willing to live with / work on. This all boils down to communication (as other posters have noted), but isn’t everything about communication and compassion?
I was married for 9 years and now divorced for 6. I have to say that there were problems before we were married that I ignored or played down because I had been burned by a prior relationship and wanted to get married. There were also red flags regarding his patterns that I didn’t see because we weren’t together long enough before we were married for them to be revealed.
I’m divorced, and I’m still not sure why: my husband dropped a bomb on me pretty much out of the blue, and refused to discuss his reasons. The problems that we did have were ones that I think could have been worked through, but I don’t know if they’re what caused the divorce. What *should* have been more apparent to me was my ex-h’s ability to completely shut down emotionally (dropping the portcullis is how I’ve described it). I never thought about how that would affect a marriage, or what would happen if we had problems and he had that response.
Been married for 11 years. Have considered divorce but am still married. Hubby is an alcoholic/addict. In hindsight, my warning was the Drunk driving arrest after the bachelor party. We have two kids and he is a good Dad. He is now sober, but has relapsed at least once that I know about. Being and staying married has been far more difficult than I ever expected. That said, I love my husband. I also do not want to give him half of everything I have ever earned or saved, and I don’t want to only get to live with my kids half time — which would be the result ifmwe were to divorce. We have certainly had weeks/ months even without real communicationm but we are in a better place now. The comments on the post re pree nups re you don’t know who people may become resonated with me far more than the cooking/ walks comments here.
I’ve only been married about a year, so I’m no expert, but I agree that talking to each other on a daily basis is key. We have dinner together almost every night and just discuss whatever we did that day and what is going on with our friend and family. Nothing too exotic or exciting, but it helps stay connected.
I also want to say I am shocked at how many of our friends in their mid and late twenties, both married and dating, don’t seem to *like* or value (or both) their SO. My husband often comes home and tells me some of the things these men say and do and I am appaled at the way they treat and talk about their SOs. I know many of the wives/GFs and they seem just as in enthused to be part of the relationship.
Sometimes I think couples planning a wedding don’t ask themselves why they are getting married – do they want to be MARRIED, as opposed to being married to THAT PERSON? Are they getting married for an anticipated lifestyle? Because they want kids? Because the guy is tired of doing his own laundry and housework (yes, really.)? Because a wedding is fun and exciting? There are so many bad reasons to get married, and yet people get married for these reasons and then in the years following the wedding, they find that they don’t particularly like the person they’ve married. This is the main reason I’m in favor of living together for a while before marriage (preferrably after you’ve been dating long enough to see some permanence in the relationship). People tend to be on their best behavior on dates. When you’re sharing a household, you see how the other person is on a daily basis and how they are about money, housework, social life, etc. I’ve found that it is possible to love someone and not be able to live with them.
I’ve been waiting for a coffee break! First, thank you LC and Blonde Lawyer. I’ll be in touch soon. In the meantime, I’m hoping to hear from other Corporettes out there: I have been treated horribly by my biglaw firm upon returning from my maternity leave, and I believe I have a cause of action for discrimination. But I know what this firm is capable of in litigation (I’m a sixth year litigation associate)…. Has anyone out there pursued a claim against their biglaw firm? Thoughts? Help?
Google Juliette Youngblood and Irell & Manella.
Hi, I’d posted yesterday about the unfortunate, random fb discovery of a photo of the guy I’ve been dating with his supposed ex-wife, emblazoned across the top of her fb page. Just wanted to give an update, as promised. I ended up cancelling on him last night – had to get out a last minute SEC filing for this morning. I wasn’t sorry about it, though. Really am not a big hey-let’s-talk-about-our-feelings kind of girl and was not looking forward to the confrontation, though I guess it is inevitable. Anyway, just wanted to say thanks for the good thoughts and supportive comments in the meantime. Not sure yet when we will be getting together next.
Just wanted to let you know I’ve been thinking about you all morning. Thanks so much for the update, and we wish you well!!
I was wondering about this too! Please keep us updated.
me, three!
Same here, sending good vibes your way and hoping for the best.
Don’t let it eat you up too long. I’d suggest not delaying the inevitable and getting closure on it however you choose to resolve it sooner than later. Good luck!
Several people posted on the morning thread that they were thinking about you today. Good luck deciding what, if anything, you want to do about him next!
Sending you good vibes!
Thanks for the update. Let us know what eventually happens. Maybe you’ll even just decide you never want to see him again without knowing what was up.
maybe just let him wonder- guys do that all the time…
You can always say something like “oh I just wasn’t feeling it “…
I was very curious about what happened. Thanks for updating us.
Thanks, y’all, truly.
Be well, dear! No matter what, take good care of yourself!
do let us know. good luck.
So today’s Boston Globe has an article about employer’s asking to see job candidate’s FB and e-mail passwords so they can “poke around”.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2012/03/20/job_seekers_getting_asked_for_facebook_passwords/?page=1
I don’t even know what to do with this. First it seems like a horrible violation of privacy, not only of my own privacy but also of all my friends and family’s privacies! But the whole e-mail password thing really squees me out. I don’t know what I would do if an employer asked for this. Eewww.
I would say that the asking for passwords is a breech of privacy, because they can look at your messages and things like that, which I would equate to asking for your personal email password – not OK.
The whole facebook being “private” thing however is something I don’t agree with, because it is posting on a public forum, no matter how “private” your settings are.
Oh, I have no belief that my Facebook postings themselves are private (I post nothing I would care if the world saw…so lets be honest, its mostly puppies and kitties).
But the password thing takes it to another level. They can see your messages. They could, theoretically, add friends, or comment on things, or whatever. Its creepy. That’s all I’m saying.
I totally agree with you. I realize in re-reading my comment that it came off as a direct comment to you. I meant it more as an overall comment on the way some people treat facebook.
I don’t like it. While things on Facebook are “public” in the sense that they are posted on the internet, people choose specific privacy settings to limit who has access to their content. I may have decided that you should have access – but I didn’t decide that your employer should. What if I want to work for them one day?
It seems to me like an employer going to someone’s house and looking through their drawers. Yes, you could drive by my house and I guess if there were weeds everywhere and the siding had fallen off, you might make a judgment about me. But I still have the key to the inside, and I’m not giving it to you just because I work for you.
Just say no. Seriously. If some people let them get away with it, they’ll ask even more people to comply.
Also, in this Ask A Manager thread (http://www.askamanager.org/2012/01/when-a-prospective-employer-wants-your-social-media-passwords.html), one of the commenters suggests that it would violate the terms of service to share your password, so you could throw that back at them.
In a select few cases, I have asked a client to log on to facebook on my computer so I could review the page. I did this where it had been previously public and I was concerned opposing counsel planned to use info from the page. In another case I did it when I had reason to believe the opposing party had accessed her page without her permission and I needed equal access to what he had seen. I would never ask for a job applicant’s log-in info.
blonde lawyer – where did the link to your awesome picture blog go? can you post it one more time?
Thank you for asking. When I did my google purge the link must have been removed from my defaults on this computer. I use several and the settings are all different on each one.
Here it is again: http://mundaneart.tumblr.com/
During a very busy spell at work I had to take a couple days off from the blog. I’ve managed to update it every couple days and hope to be back to everyday soon. Knowing I have readers helps for sure!
oh god, I should probably make some of my clients do this…..
I had the good fortune last week to choose between 2 job offers. At one of the organizations, there were 2 different positions open. I was asked which was my preference, but was not offered it. I was offered the other one, but for a variety of reasons, preferred an offer from another company over it. I declined it over the phone, but feel a pull to write a “thank you for the offer” note.
For the right job, I can easily see working for the other organization, so I don’t want to burn this bridge. Also, I really liked the hiring authority and her team and do feel honored to have gotten an offer. But when I go to write the note, I’m at a loss for words and think the whole “thank you for an offer I didn’t accept” concept feels weird. Like I’m not confident in my decision.
Have any of you ever written or received such a note? Any suggestions on wording? FWIW, I do intend to volunteer and contribute to this org in the future, so maybe I should just let that action speak louder than words.
I don’t really have any suggestions, but I just have to chime in to say that I love your handle. I think it’s about her white chocolate bark from Christmas, but it can mean so much more than that.
Every time I see it, it cracks me up…
I think you could write something that says basically: “I just wanted to reiterate my appreciation for the offer and confirm in writing that I am unable to take it at this time. That being said, I appreciate you taking the time to meet with me and the opportunity to learn more about X organization. It was a difficult decision, but unfortunately Y position at X organization is not right for me at this time. However, I remain deeply impressed with the mission of X Organization, and hope to volunteer and stay involved in the future. Best of luck with your candidate search.”
I have never received such a letter from a candidate, but would find it quite gracious.
Agree completely with everything in this comment :) You can thank them while reiterating that the position wasn’t right for you, but that you hope to follow their work and stay involved, etc.
“Dear Employer,
Thank you so much for considering me for Job. It was a pleasure to get to know you and learn more about your organization. While it was not the right fit for me at the moment, I sincerely hope to work with you in some capacity in the future.
Regards,
ISOBB”
Anyone have recommendations for comfy PJs? Preferably with a Tall option for pants?
I don’t think they have tall options, but I really like Soma for pajamas. They are soft and durable and have pretty but comfortable options.
I have one pair of Soma’s Cool Night pjs, and the rise is huge on me (I’m 5’4.5″ tall). I have to hike them way up my ribcage if I don’t want droopy drawers. The top is also way long — to crotch level. So, I’d say Soma regular is tall-ish, if not tall.
But I haven’t thrown them out because the “Cool Night” thing really works.
What is the Cool Night thing? Is it for those of us taking tropical vacations via hormones in our sleep?
this comment made me spray water all over my monitor.
Indeed it is. Thanks for the “tropical vacation” phrase — I’ll definitely be using that.
But also for anyone who runs hot.
The fabric is a cotton bamboo blend. In my experience, it tends to pill rather quickly. Soma is a line I’d never pay full price for, but I’ll buy a ton of it at my outlet mall cause I don’t care if my pj tops and bottoms match.
Also, they are a chicos subsidiary, so outlet malls w/o a Soma store often have the merch at the back of the chicos outlet.
Love love LOVE cool night PJs. Made a huge difference in my sleeping!!! I tell everyone I can about them. You GOTTA try ’em! They absorb the sweat but don’t feel clammy like full cotton does! And not cold either. LOVE!
I really love the Lilka pjs I picked up at Anthro a while back. Super, super soft brushed cotton. Don’t know whether they come in talls, though.
my 5’10” sister-in-law likes victoria’s secret pajamas – they come in tall. personally, i’m more of a sweatpants person, and buy VS sweats a lot – cozy, hold up well and are very long on me, but since i’m 5’3″ i can’t tell you if they’re actually “tall” or not.
Yes yes yes! Gilligan O’Malley modal pants from Target, come in Tall sizes. They are all I wear and they are less than $20. They sell a variety of matching tops under the same labe.
http://www.target.com/p/Gilligan-OMalley-Womens-Modal-Pajama-Pant-Assorted-Colors/-/A-13750427
Oh, I love these. The capri version is pretty awesome for the warmer months, too.
I really like Garnet Hill’s green cotton pajamas. They are pricey, but when they’re on sale, I stock up. I’m 5’8″.
Hatley pjs are really comfy. They don’t come in tall, but I’m 5’9″ and they’re plenty long for me.
Piggy pajamas!
Thanks all!
Wait, pjs come in tall? I don’t have to walk around the house with my ankles showing?
Also, why do I need normal length pants and tall pjs? Grrr…
For the Corporettes who are pregnant or TTC, does anyone have any “mommy” websites they want to recommend? I just found out this weekend that I’m *finally* pregnant and I CAN NOT CONCENTRATE on anything else right now. I’ve browsed through the Bump but I don’t love it and I need some other sites to waste my time on since I’ve given up on my billables for today.
not a mommy, but know many
alt dot life
I’ve known 5 weeks and I still cannot focus. I downloaded a free app from what to expect and check in on the forums. They have them by month and state so you can talk to those in your timeframe.
While I was pregnant I read babycenter dot com a lot. I actually still read it and find it helpful for the various stages my infant is going through (sleep questions, teething, starting solid foods, etc.)
Thanks ladies, I’m going to check all of these out. Although between baby sites and corporette I have a feeling I’ll never get any work done again.
Babycenter is nice for getting updates on stages of development, and once babe is here, it’s a good source for milestones, age-appropriate activities, etc. But stay away from the message boards; there is a lot of cray-cray there (IMO).
Get a subscription to Brain, Child. Not sure what their website is like, but I’ve always loved picking it up and browsing through it at my mommy friends places.
Thanks!
Just wondering if there’s been an update from the commenter who found out through FB that the man she’s been dating may not be divorced after all. Hoping all worked out for her.
top of this thread (i think)
also wondering dont see it up top
TJ – Pregnant ladies and formerly pregnant ladies — Question about billing for prenatal appointments. I’m at 7 weeks and currently on a high deductible plan with HSA, but have the opportunity to switch in open enrollment in the next couple of months to a normal PPO. Any thoughts on (1) which is the better option and (2) how that will effect billing for my appointments if I switch mid-stream? I know I need to address this with my own doctor, but am looking for anecdoctal advice.
I would switch to the PPO. My office just forced us out of our various HMO and PPO plans into a high deductible HSA plan, and even though paying up to the deductible amount isn’t a big deal, I can see where proving you’ve spent the deductible will be. I imagine that the last thing you would want to deal with while pregnant and then enjoying your new baby will be bales of insurance paperwork. The PPO should be a nice clean co-pay each time with nothing else to worry about.
It’s no problem at all to prove you’ve spent the deductible. Your doctor sends a bill to the insurance, they process it, they send you an explanation of benefits and they know exactly what you’ve spent. Ditto with prescriptions.
Actually, with my HSA/Insurance combo, if it’s not a routine, preventative thing, I have the pay the Doctor directly, and then eventually prove to the insurance company that I have met the deductible by saving up my paid bills before the insurance company will start paying their share of the post-deductible expenses. It sucks.
If you have an HDHP, you’ll have an entirely separate high deductible for the baby (assuming s/he goes on your plan and not your husband’s). So consider whether you can afford that. I have an HDHP and I love it, but it’s not for everyone in every situation.
Vent…
I am so over those flash sale sites. The prices are not good and coupled with the high shipping price – I can find a better deal at a Nordstrom’s sale. Many times I have found the exact same priced or lower priced items on different websites offering free shipping.
Fooey on you flash sales!
No kidding. I just bought a ton of stuff on clearance at 60%+ off from Nordie’s on the last day of triple points. Free shipping, of course. I expect most of it will go back, but unlike a flash sale, Nordie’s makes that easy. I think at least a few of the items will be winners. Double fooey on flash sales!
FOOEY indeed! I have been burned far too many times with those sites.
I don’t buy anything from the “regular” flash sales anymore either. You’re right, even without the added shipping and hassle of return you can find better deals elsewhere. But I do still look at their end-of-season or final sale events – you can often find things there for such low prices that the inconvenience/extra shipping is worth it. I’ve gotten a $500 dress for $50 and a $450 handbag for $40 during those events that I have gotten a ton of use out of. Probably lost $50-$60 buying stuff that didn’t work out, but I still feel like I’ve had a positive net gain.
There was a NYT article about this a while back that confirms your instincts. Link to follow…
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/30/fashion/bargain-hunters-hold-that-click.html
Thank you for that article. I need to get over flash sale sites, and now I am!
Rue la la, you are dead to me.
sigh. i bought a holiday party elie tahari dress on ruelala in december for 249 — i saw that same dress at the elie tahari outlet this weekend in my size for $79. at least i wore it twice since i purchased…
I completely agree! I’ve unsubscribed from all those daily emails. The slight discount isn’t worth the total lack of service (i.e. no size exchanges, charges for returns, etc.).
I also quit Living Social and Groupon a while back. Similar reason–businesses tend to be flooded with customers and the service deteriorates. I actually try to avoid places with recent discounts.
I love the styling here – I’m so used to a pop of red with a black and white look, but I think I might like a pop of bright blue even more.
TJ to an earlier TJ- the post in an earlier thread today about how couples fight was so very interesting – particularly in light of something that happened to me recently – not really a fight with my SO, but an argument between my SO and a stranger (a road rage type incident). I physically stepped in between my SO and this other guy when it looked like things were going to escalate into a physical altercation. Thought my SO would back down with me there. Instead, he told me to get out of the way and when I didn’t he pushed me aside. I lost my balance and fell on my butt. I wasn’t harmed. Though my gut says this was a one time incident and a bad judgment call on his part in the heat of the moment, I’ve lingering disappointment and disrespect for him over it, and I’m wondering whether I should be worried that this is some kind of sign about what he’s capable of. He’s never laid a hand on me but when we fight he does yell and has been known to throw (not at me) or break things. Am I minimizing what happened?
Big red flag, imo.
Agreed. My boyfriend would never lay a hand on me, and if he were to somehow accidentally knock me over he would be mortified and probably apologize a million times. I broke up with a guy once who told me he got mad at his roommate and punched a hole in the wall – I didn’t like that he was capable of such a demonstration of rage (and incapable of better handling his temper). To me, the distance between punching walls, throwing things, etc. and hitting you is just too small. Good luck to you.
Red flag, because of the road rage issue and because of the throwing/breaking things. He responds physically with his anger, and that’s going to bleed into the way he treats you.
IMO, my bf pushing me away would indicate that he didn’t respect me or my thoughts on the situation at hand- as in, you were just an object or a fly in the way of his goal. It’s not just the physical violence part, but the lack of respect. It would make me feel that he would have no problem stepping all over me in the figurative sense if the opportunity came up.
Also, obviously, the physical part is a big red flag. I have never had the urge to throw anything except throwing my phone onto my bed after a nasty phone call. Even then, I always make sure it’s landing on a soft surface so it doesn’t have a chance to break- I don’t know if that matters at all though.
The lack of respect occurred to me too.
I think you are minimizing it. If he can get that angry with a stranger in public, it’s not too far off to think what he can do in the privacy of your own home. Throwing things around and breaking things is a huge indication that he is not in control of his temper
I think so too. He didn’t hurt you, didn’t mean to hurt you, but the mere fact that he could let a road rage situation get that out of hand is extremely troubling. I get road rage, some days when I’m already pissed off I already have it (I blame California drivers, seriously!) but I control it. I don’t flip off people who cut me off, I don’t roll down my window and yell at people, I don’t stop the car, etc…
Second what someone said above re: kids, do you really want your kids (future) to see this?? To behave like this? You would have to worry every single time they were alone with him.
He needs to get some help. Period.
For the abuse analysis, it’d be good to call an abuse/domestic violence hotline for advice. Apart from that analysis, two thoughts:
First, if it’s at all possible that you’ll have kids, it’s not right to expose kids to this kind of anger. Second, even if you don’t have kids, do you really want to spend your life with a grown man who can’t control his anger any better than a toddler? Unlike a toddler, if he gets very angry, he could seriously hurt you.
I think he isn’t good at managing his anger, but that’s a far cry from being abusive. Honestly, with all the adrenaline and testosterone, I wouldn’t have stepped in between two angry men. Often the person who tries to break up a fight ends up getting hurt inadvertently. I think you could talk to him about looking for ways to better manage his anger, but I don’t think what you describe is atypical or a major red flag.
I think its a red flag. I think exploring the issue with him, and talking about anger management and help for his anger would be the minimum I would do. If he’s unwilling to do that, well, there’s your answer.
Throwing and breaking things is implicit violence. Shoving you aside is explicit violence. Run, please please run.
I think it is a huge red flag. One, I don’t think you should step in between two angry men(or people in general) But once you did, where was his protective instincts towards you? Seeing me near an angry man would have immediately made my bf realize what he was doing, and nothing would be more important to him than making sure I was away from there, even if it meant him backing down from a fight. Not only was the fight more important to him than you, he literally tossed you aside! This would be a huge huge dealbreaker for me
Red flag. Proceed with extreme caution.
How long have you been together? Do you live together? Maybe this was a one-time thing for him – he’s been under a lot of stress, having a bad day, whatever – and you can just talk about it and he’ll apologize and it’ll never happen again.
But it’s amazing to me how good some people are at putting on a show when they’re trying to impress/woo you then the change dramatically once they’re reasonably sure you won’t leave (like the poster above whose ex slapped his son). Abusers are notoriously good at the bait-and-switch. Not saying that’s necessarily the case here, but I would think about whether there are signs that you might have overlooked or brushed off in the past (like the yelling and throwing things – have you ever felt afraid of him? Have you told him you’re afraid but he keeps doing it?) and keep an eye out for anything he does in the future.
Abusive or not, just run, run far, run fast. Ugh. He’s.So. No.Worth. It.
He sounds like my husband. The first time I witnessed him in such a temper tantrum, not directed at me, I thought, “I’ll make sure he doesn’t do that anymore.” I was convinced I could change him. That was 22 years ago. He regularly rages, and even though it never gets physical, it makes me sick to my stomach because my father was not a screamer (really good with the guilt trips, but never temper tantrums). I have considered moving out many, many times, and the kids, plus the fact that our finances can’t really sustain two households, have kept me at home. It’s a terrible way to live. You don’t want to sign onto anything long term with someone like that. And there’s no such thing as “one time only” with anger issues.
I’ve had the same situation occur w/ my bf, but it didn’t end up with me being pushed but rather yelling at me to get back in the car (he was in the guy’s face but felt like he was protecting me for a potential albeit unlikely attack when I was yelling at the guy over the fender bender). Anywho, the point is this is a common trait among high-testosterone men: anger management. Luckily my bf fully acknowledges it and is big on self-improvement. He has been to voluntary anger mngmt classes in a program where the men were court-ordered to go, which I think is very big and brave of him. While he does have occassional flare-ups I do support him since he acknowledges it and we try to work through it. I just hope your bf is not too proud to similarly work hard on his issues, otherwise it will only escalate if left unattended to.
I’ve been mulling this over for about a week now and am still seething. My BF and I have been together 3 years now, we started dating senior year of undergrad. We’re still young but have thought about marriage and when we talked about it last week, he said he’d only marry a Jewish woman. I’m Catholic and have no plans on changing that, a fact he’s well aware of. When I told him that, he was understanding but told me it was important to his parents that any grandchildren they have be Jewish. Does he think my parents don’t want the same, for their grandchildren to be brought up Catholic?
Seeing how livid I got, he tried to backpedal and said he’d try reasoning with them but I was long gone by then. BF hasn’t brought it up since and have been extra sweet but I’m still angry. Frankly, I’m hurt and insulted that this was even brought up. You love someone for who they are as a person, not what religion they believe in. This has me severely doubting our relationship and I don’t know if I want to continue if this will hang over me for the rest of our lives.
My friends think I’m overreacting and that I should see where this leads before making any rash decisions. Have any of you been in this situation? Advice/thoughts/suggestions welcome.
This may sound harsh, but he has just told you that he will not marry you. You need to decide whether that’s a dealbreaker for you.
This. So this.
She speaks the truth. Unless AND until you hear him say different, make plans which do not include marriage to him.
This
Yes, this.
I don’t say this to be harsh but he’s told you he’d only marry a Jewish woman. Believe him. You can’t fairly say later he was stringing you along when you chose to stay after he’s told you what his intentions are.
I agree with 30 – her comment was posted separately. I would be more upset about the fact that he has dated you for so long and this is now when it comes up. I think that it is hard for some people to marry outside of their faith, especially when it is important to their family.
I would suggest that you talk about where your relationship is supposed to go from here. If this is something that he is unwilling to budge on, maybe it is time for you to move on. It doesn’t mean that you don’t love him, it just means that you two may not be compatible in the long run because your differing views on this. It may be better to move on now then to hang around for another 3 years when you are even more committed.
I hope this doesn’t sound dismissive, because I don’t mean it to be, but the hypothetical children are going to have whatever faith they have (or don’t), regardless of what religion their parents or grandparents want them to belong to.
FWIW I don’t think you’re overreacting, but I wouldn’t encourage you to call it quits just yet. I have lots of friends who used to say they’d only marry within their faith . . . and then didn’t.
Sorry Kanye but I think you are way off. But having dealt with this- you are three years too late to be having this convo. I’ve heard of people saying they will only marry within their faith but *then* they meet someone and change their mind. They have been dating for three years and now he is saying it. Some men, especially with the Jewish religion, value this religion over any love. Others use this as a very convienent way to tell their gfs they won’t marry them for reasons outside his control. He didn’t broach the subject by asking about if you would ever consider converting, he straight up said he is not going to marry you.
This happened to me. Don’t wait it out.
It’s happened to me, too. But I was only offering a perspective, not advice.
And you shouldn’t assume I’m not Jewish.
Maybe I’m projecting my own relationship issues, but it sounds like he might be having doubts in general about the relationship and instead of coming out and saying it, he sees the religion argument as an “easy” way out because he knows that’s non-negotiable.
Agreed. This might be indicative of a bigger issue.
I don’t think its unfair of him to want to marry a Jewish woman, but I do think its unfair of him to date you for three years knowing this and not telling you.
I know people who, for whatever reason, have felt that it was important to marry someone of the same religion, but those people didn’t even date people that didn’t fit that criteria, because it was unfair and couldn’t possibly lead to anything long term.
Yes, exactly this. I wouldn’t date someone who was religious (in that they wanted to raise any potential children religious, I could probably deal with them attending church once in a while as long as I didn’t have to go) and I know several people who will not date outside their religion. I mean, yes, casually, but if it starts getting serious, it’s time for the talk.
This. Dump him for hiding this *huge* fact from you. He just wanted to have all the perks of a serious girlfriend by stringing her along with the possibility of marriage when he knew all along that he wouldn’t marry you. It’s the fundamental dishonesty of it all that’s galling.
This is a bit like (to me as a non-religious type) whether or not to have children. It isn’t like you should open the first date with ‘so I don’t want kids, what about you’, but it’s such a fundamental issue in most relationships that you need to have full disclosure as soon as it looks like things are starting to get serious.
I do understand that for people whose faith is important to them, the decision to marry outside the faith may not be an easy one. Here, however, it sounds like he is more concerned about what his parents think, rather than what he thinks. It sounds like what he is saying is ‘you are fine for now, but let’s face it, I’m going to break up with you eventually’.
I completely understand that you are livid – as noted below, where does he see this as going? And more importantly, where do YOU see it going, as aren’t you now just letting him control the relationship fully because you are waiting for him to either (1) convince his parents (unlikely, if it’s that big a deal to them) or (2) meet a nice Jewish girl and break up with you to get married.
I feel like I have a better point in there somewhere, but it’s been a long day…
Definitely agree about the thing with the kids. Yes it isn’t something you open up a first date with, but this is an issue that should have been brought up before now if it is that big of a deal.
I do think it’s weird it took so long for him to bring this up, but out of curiosity, does he want you to convert or just raise your kids in the Jewish faith (yes I know technically being Jewish is a maternal lineage thing)? I doubt I would convert for anyone, but I wouldn’t have a problem raising my kids in most mainstream religions. (I am not particularly religious, though).
I actually have a good friend who was raised Jewish (like his dad) and his sister was raised Catholic (like his mom). His parents just agreed that was how they were going to raise one kid in each of their respective faiths and they kind of celebrated all holidays but my friend had a bar mitzvah and went to synagogue with his dad and his sister got communion/confirmation and went to mass with his mom.
BUT, if any if that is a deal breaker for you (and I don’t think it’s wrong if it is!), then I do think you have now been told he wants to marry a Jewish woman and/or bend to the will of his parents so take those facts for what they’re worth.
He’s not going to marry you. Believe me, he’s not going to. If that’s important to you at your current life stage, break up with him now and save yourself the grief later on.
ps – you say you started dating in college. It doesn’t surprise me at all that he didn’t think to bring this up until now. How old is he, 25? People just don’t think about their relationship leading to marriage when they’re in their early 20s. It sucks for you, but it’s not surprising.
I agree with this. He may have now just thought about this because he is thinking about the future and what he wants out of it.
Ditto, unfortunately. Boys are so. stupid. I dated a guy for a few months, told him up front I was looking for something serious and kids were in my 5 year plan. We were pretty serious, looking at houses big enough for first baby (for me, not us, but with the understanding that he would move in in a year or two), saying I love you, all that jazz. He told me one day when we were getting ready for his bff’s baby shower that he couldn’t imagine getting married or having kids before his mid-30s at the very earliest (we’re both 27). I asked him why he didn’t mention this sooner and he said something like “Uhhh derrr idk… because I’m a selfish b@stard and didn’t think about it because I was having fun and didn’t give a rat’s @ss about your feelings.” So that ended that. Idiots. The lot of them.
Jerk. Before my current bf, the last dude I dated strung me a long *for a year.* He finally left for grad school and I found out he had been seeing an intern in his office, too.
How can dudes be so mean?
I started dating my now husband when we were in high school. Almost every friend I have from college is now married to their college boyfriend/girlfriend, and none of us are particularly religious. Once you’ve been dating seriously for a year or so, I think something like this is important to bring up.
Which is mostly to say, I think he’s a jerk for not bringing it up sooner, and I would also be livid.
I should note that I was a conservative Christian when I started dating my atheist now husband in high school, and I was upfront with him about the fact that I’d never marry an atheist. Um…
Are you by any chance in the South? I have a theory that this is regional. I find my friends from college in the South, even boys, tended to look at their college/early 20s relationships as “longterm, maybe I will stay with you forever” kind of things, whereas my friends in my northeast colleges and other friends in the northeast tend to look at them as “This is a thing I’m doing for now, who knows where it will go? I’m only 23! I’m way too young to even consider marriage!” That attitude is especially prevalent in dudes.
Nope, I’m from the midwest. I think it’s partially regional, but that it’s also to a certain extent peer pressure. When you’ve got a fairly cohesive group of friends, and most of them are in long term serious relationships, you tend to treat your own more seriously. I wouldn’t say that we fit the stereotypes of midwesterners that people on the coasts seem to harbor in any other way, though.
Anon – as a southerner, I completely agree with your theory. My roommate, a very southern male, and his friends from college will sit around and talk about their future marriage ceremonies. My roommate even knows what kind of cake he wants.
I’m sorry you’re feeling so blindsided and upset. Have you two actually talked about how your hypothetical children will be raised – Catholic, Jewish, kinda both? My husband is Jewish and I came from a Christian tradition. It was a dealbreaker for him that our hypothetical children be raised Jewish, and only Jewish. He made that clear from the point that we became serious, and when I first heard it after months of dating, I felt like it sounds you do – shocked, blindsided, angry. Why is his tradition more important than mine? Why does he get to decide?? But, after mulling it over for a long while and talking about it calmly (and not so calmly) many times, I agreed because I realized it wasn’t a dealbreaker for me to have children raised in my tradition.
I wonder if when your BF says “it was important to his parents,” what he also means but is afraid of saying to you is that it is also important to HIM. One of my husband’s reasons is that the Jewish diaspora is small, and shrinking relative to other religions. People have been killing and persecuting his people for literally thousands of years. He also lost family in the pogroms and the holocaust. It was very important to him to add children to the Jewish population, not interfaith semi-Jewish but basically not Jewish kids. Actually Jewish kids who are strong in tradition and culture, if not faith. I hadn’t ever thought about it in that way because, well, most people in the western world are Christian. I wonder if that’s something your BF is thinking, too.
He’s being extra sweet because you’re angry, hurt, and insulted, and he cares about you. I can’t agree that “you love someone for who they are as a person, not what religion they believe in” – he may love you very much, but this may also be a dealbreaker for him. So, I think you need to talk to him, calmly and openly. If it’s a dealbreaker for him (not his parents, him) that the hypothetical children be raised exclusively Jewish, and it’s a dealbreaker for you (not your parents, you) that they be raised interfaith or exclusively Catholic, and you both want children, then your relationship is over. But it’s not over yet – talk to him first, and then talk some more.
I agree with the point that it might be important to him but he doesn’t know how to say it. While OP’s boyfriend might not have cared much about religion in college and his parents still might care more about it now than he does, it might be that as he gets older this is getting more important to him and he is realizing this. I’m Jewish and find myself in a similar position (although I think I care more than my parents and less than my grandparents). I know I didn’t care very much about any of this in college but that as I get older it is getting more important to me. Unfortunately, he is telling you this 3 years in. Don’t write it off the whole relationship, but definitely talk to him and keep talking about it.
I am Jewish (Reform, secular, American), and my first husband was Catholic. Didn’t matter to me. I still went to Temple, lit menorah etc and we knew we didn’t want kids. And we didn’t have any.
My second husband is Jewish (Israeli). When we met, I inherited two practicing Jewish step-kids (their mom is also Israeli). My husband and I will never have kids, but the pride I feel when the four of us sit around the Sabbath dinner table or I see my stepdaughter light the candles or my stepson say the prayer over the wine is heart-filling. And I am not religious.
But it is part of this whole “my ancestors have been saying these exact words for thousands of years, and all across the world Jews are still saying these exact words, and take that all you people who killed my husband’s family during the Holocaust (while my family was safe in America)” feeling.
I am 45. I don’t know if I could have predicted feeling this way when I married my first husband at 24.
“He’s being extra sweet because you’re angry, hurt, and insulted, and he cares about you”
Or maybe he is being extra sweet to manipulate you into not acting too angry so he can have the perks of a girlfriend but none of the commitment. Being extra sweet would not be nearly as important to me as, you know, discussing the issue in a series of honest productive conversations.
I’m having trouble understanding why you were livid — in the sense that it seems like you understand where he’s coming from (that you would want to raise children in the faith you were raised in).
The part that’s sad is that unfortunately, where you two are right now, is a gap that may ver well be impossible to bridge. I think multi-faith relationships can totally work, but one member has to either be flexible about their religion (i.e. willing to be essentially “culturally” catholic or jewish) whilst allowing their children to actually be the other religion. Because you can’t really raise kids as practicing catholics and jews (at least not in the sense where they will be baptised/bat mitzvahed/etc.) These are the reasons that sometimes “great” relationships when you’re 21 aren’t life-long relationships — if one party can’t bend, then the relationship breaks.
I think you need to pin down whether it is important for *him* that he marries a Jewish woman, or if it’s only important to his parents. If it’s only the latter, then you two need to have a talk about standing up to them. I’ve been in a similar situation (same faith but neither of us are observant, but SO wanted to keep up appearances of being faithful for parents), and it’s amazing how much grown men can still feel bullied and guilt-tripped by their parents into making decisions. You need to sit down and tell your SO that it’s your lives, and your decisions, and make a plan for sticking to your guns. Of course, if it’s really important to him that he marries someone Jewish, then you have more of problem.
You also have to consider too that even if he comes to terms with marrying someone non-Jewish, he probably does not want to raise his kids Catholic either. Consider whether you’d be willing to accept that outcome as well.
GET OUT.
Seriously, it’s going to hurt, it’s going to suck, you’re going to doubt yourself constantly at first and then every once in a while thereafter, but you can’t fix this unless you convert. My aunt is Jewish and my uncle is sort-of non-religious but if-anything-Catholic. And getting married and having kids it was an issue for them every. single. day. of their lives. It still is, even though they’re long divorced and the older kid is off at college. They still fight all the time about how to raise the kids, who gets them when, whether they should go to temple or mass or pick their own religion.
The fact that your BF said this to you means he’s giving you a warning. There’s no point in investing further time into this relationship, it’ll just be harder and harder to break off. But I can almost guarantee you that someday you’ll come home and he’ll be gone and married to his Jewish girl within the year.
You may not even be able to fix it by converting. This happened to me, and I was totally willing to convert and raise Jewish children, etc. But that still wasn’t good enough for my SO at the time, because converting does not make one “culturally Jewish.” Basically, his view was that even if you convert, it doesn’t change the fact that you didn’t grow up in a Jewish family having Jewish experiences. Unfortunately, I agree with those who say that you need to have a serious talk with your SO, and if this is how he feels (and not just his parents) you need to end the relationship.
Incidentally I did end up married to someone Jewish, but we’re both pretty non-religious people, and he is the product of an interfaith union himself–so he had seen firsthand that it could work. I could definitely see this being a bigger problem for couples where one or both people are more religiously active.
Another vote for “he is telling you he won’t marry you.” I’ve seen several couples break up over this exact issue (one partner Jewish, the other not) several years into the relationship. Every time it was ugly. Either he needs to say “I love you and we will figure this out” – and mean it – or you need to get out. I know one couple where the wife converted and they are happy, but she was also happy to convert. You don’t sound interested. Good luck!
Been there, done that. More than once. He wants his kids to be raised Jewish. If you’re not willing to convert, get out of the relationship now before you invest any more time / emotion.
I’m Jewish and intermarried. I love my husband, but if I had it to do over again, I would have married a Jew. Break up now – if you aren’t going to convert and raise the kids Jewish (meaning potentially no Christmas, ever) and he’s told you he won’t marry a non-Jew, the relationship has run its course.
Cut your losses and go. Unclear why he didn’t bring this up earlier, though he may not have thought the relationship would progress to this point.
I’m so sorry for what you are going through IS. Your anger and pain is justified. If this is truly important to him, it should have come out before now, and if it isn’t important to him, his comment was cowardly and inconsiderate.
I can’t tell you what will happen in your situation, I have seen these go both ways. I had a relationship end over the same issue, and in my case it was more than just the religion. He had grown up in what he saw as a “traditional” family – father was a doctor, mother was a stay-at-home mom who devoted her entire life to making her husband and children happy. His wanting a “Jewish wife” was him wanting that kind of wife, I don’t honestly think religion factored much into it at all. (I am a big-law attorney on partner track who openly admitted on our first date I did not want children. Why he ever dated me I have no idea. Then again, I repeatedly told him I was wrong for him, so I am to blame for not ending it before it started.)
My gut tells me that if you aren’t the idea of who he wants to marry now, after three years, you aren’t going to be able to change into someone he does see himself marrying. More importantly, not being Jewish is not a “fault” for which you need to repent for the rest of your life. Be sure to consider whether you are ready to take that on.
Best of luck, keep us posted!
I know this may not have been what you meant, but please don’t think that being a “Jewish wife” means being a stay at home wife. Some people may want a stay at home wife, just as plenty of Christian and atheist guys undoubtedly do, but it is very much not a “Jewish thing.” Myself and my many female Jewish friends who have successful careers (doctors, lawyers, professors, engineers, etc) are evidence otherwise, as are the many Jewish guys I know who have wives (Jewish or otherwise) with awesome careers.
Thanks for saying this.
No, not at ALL what I meant. I meant that when he spoke of a Jewish wife, he spoke of all the characteristics I did not embody – wanting to stay at home and focus on caring for him and his family, along with also being a member of the Jewish faith. Not at all my understanding of a “Jewish wife” (or any happy wife, for that matter!)
I agree with a lot of the advice above, and I also want to add that you should consider how much easier marrying someone of your own faith will be for both of you. I’m not saying that intermarriage never works (I myself am the product of a very happy Jewish/atheist intermarriage, raised Jewish, marrying a Jewish guy). When I was in late college/law school I dated a nice Catholic guy who was not very religious (nor was his family super religious). The relationship ended for a lot of reasons, chief among them that although he was a kind person who treated me well and was my best friend, I was never really in love with him as a romantic partner or saw myself marrying him. So the religion issue paled in comparison to that. But, I will say that at various points when we were talking marriage (against my wishes), I realized how much easier it would have been with a Jewish guy. For example, although he was not super religious, he would have liked to have gotten married in a Catholic church, and when he told me that, it made me realize how uncomfortable it would make me to get married standing in front of a giant crucifix. While I don’t think that issue itself would have been a “dealbreaker” had I loved him and wanted to marry him (I think one or both of us would have been willing to give in if it was really important to the other), it was just the first of many potential issues I saw coming down the line that would have made our marriage harder. And these things get infinitely more complicated once kids arrive. If you love someone enough, you may decide the hardships are worth it, but I do think its’ worth taking into account how much easier a same-faith marriage will be. I am ridiculously in love with my fiance and would like to think I would still be marrying him if he were Catholic, Muslim, Buddhist, Jain, whatever….but I am very glad that he’s Jewish. I know it will make the rest of our lives and our future kids lives easier.
Cut your losses while you still can honey. I’ve been there and it is NOT pretty. (Especially since his current, apparently live-in girlfriend is not Jewish and he strung me on for more than a year of ‘maybe I’ll date you’.)
To bring this up now is deeply insulting (he must have always known that religion was a deal breaker) and it means that he is using you. He does not and will never respect you as much as he would the “right” girl. You, by the way, but not caring about religion are a better person.
Leave. Leave. Leave.
I’m not sure you’ll change his mind on wanting to marry within his faith. Even if you think it’s stupid/unfair/terrible, it is what it is.
But frankly, if he is so committed to marrying within his faith, I’m shocked he waited so long to bring it up. It sort of seems like he has been leading you on.
And where does he expect your relationship to go now? He just wants to keep dating you until he is ready to get married, at which point he will break up with you and find a nice Jewish girl? This bugs me *way* more than his having religious preferences.
Oops – that was supposed to be in response to In shock… Sorry!
I agree with all of that. I wouldn’t have married someone outside of my faith, but I also wouldn’t seriously date someone for the same reason – I wouldn’t want to lead him on. I think that’s a much bigger problem.
It’s not so much him as his parents, which pisses me off more. He hasn’t been in temple since his bar mitzvah. My thinking is that his parents think we’re getting too serious and want to see if I’ll convert. I won’t do it for him and I sure won’t do it for them. My mind is still going in a million different directions and may not be expressing this correctly. I can see he regrets bringing it up, but it was and now that card’s on the table. Ugh, I so can’t deal with this.
I’m sorry – I know this must be terrible to be going through. I wish I could give you a big hug.
It sounds like it’s more of a cultural thing than a religious thing. That bugs me a lot more -I would respect a person wanting to make sure that their kids are brought up in a faith that they are devoted to.
A lot of Jewish people are fearful that intermarriage will lead to extinction (for lack of a better term). There are a very small number of Jews in the US and world and that number is rapidly dwindling because of assimilation/interfaith marriage. Culture is just as important than religion.
Just because it doesn’t have the force of faith behind it, doesn’t mean its not important for people to identify with a culture.
Keep in mind that this is not only a “religion” issue, but also a “culture” issue. There are a lot of non-practicing Jews (even atheist Jews) who believe in marrying within their culture.
I’m sorry you are going through this. I wish he had been more honest and open with you before you became this invested. While probably not intentional, it was disrespectful. And while my advice may sound harsh when this is fresh, if marriage and family are important to you (or to him), since he’s staked out this position, I urge you to consider ending this relationship amicably as soon as you can. You do not want to look back and resent investing more good years when you could be seeking out a truly compatible partner. Unfortunately, love is not enough to make a marriage.
I’m sorry, this sounds like a horrible situation. I agree with what most people have said – have some more discussions with him about whether *he* wants to marry someone Jewish, and whether *he* wants to raise his children Jewish. If you definitely won’t convert, and he’s not going to change his mind, you’ll have to end the relationship.
I know it’s awful, but I had a good friend who had a similar situation, and she wasted several years trying to convince a guy that their relationship would work, even though he had indirectly told her that he would never marry her. (Not that you’ve wasted your or his time – but in my friend’s case it really was a waste. He was a terrible person).
Would you really want to marry a man whose parents would potentially resent you for not being Jewish? Put aside whether it is valid for him to want to only marry within his faith, and consider whether YOU would be happy in that situation. When you marry a man, you also marry his family. It is possible that his parents’ feelings could change with time, but don’t hold your breath.
Just to note that sometimes riding out the inlaws works – my MIL actively worked against our relationship when she first learned of my existence. For years, she kept trying to fix my husband up with nice Jewish girls, ignoring the existence of me, the shiksa he was living with. He kept telling her to stop. She came around once she realized that he would back me 100% and we were going to get married at some point whether she liked it or not. I earned her respect before I received her love. And then she realized that grandchildren were on the horizon, which I agreed to raise as Jewish, and became my biggest fan. Now she loves me and is genuinely supportive. We still have boundary re-sets sometimes when she says/does something inappropriate, but my husband always has my back and that’s made all the difference.
exactly.
I’m late to this conversation, but this is so true.
My MIL and SIL actively campaigned against me, including trying to talk me out of the marriage after it didn’t work to talk him out of it. He married me anyway. Now they at least act like they love me. No kids yet, but I can imagine that they will be even more on board when that happens.
If you are different cultures or religions and both of you are on board, then it can work, despite the parents.
I disagree. If you marry a strong man who will fight for you, this is not the case. you may “inherit” the family, but you do not marry it. My in-laws have despised me from day one due to cultural/religious reasons (even though my husband is not that religion anymore!). But it is 100% worth it to be married to him. That being said, he has fought for me every. single. day. Were he a weaker man, it might not have been worth it.
you do have to deal with some guilt that your SO had to “choose” you over a good family relationship. that one is a bit hard.
Yeah, see the comments below about the Jewish cultural component. Being Jewish may be an important part of his identity and the identity he envisions for his children, even if he doesn’t go to temple. Plus, I know plenty of Christians who didn’t go to church much as adults but started going every week once they had children to raise.
I’m very sorry this is happening to you. Better sooner than later, though.
FWIW, my boyfriend’s mom really wants him to marry a Jewish girl (though he has never even had a bar mitzvah), and I’m Episcopalian, and we’re staying together. It annoys her, but she likes me otherwise, and she will just have to resign herself to having a shiksa daughter-in-law if we get married. My bf and I had a few long talks about this when we first got serious, but as soon as I was sure that he loved me and wanted to make it work regardless of our differences in culture/religion, I was happy to stay in and make it work. (I’m also open to raising culturally-Jewish-but-can-come-with-me-to-church kids, if such a thing exists.)
I think that’s the key — does he want to make it work with you? If he does, then it doesn’t matter that much what his parents want. If he cares more about pleasing his parents than about staying with you, then you need to break up.
Re the “never even had a bar mitzvah” comment: Whether or not you have a bar mitzvah has nothing to do with whether you re Jewish or how Jewish you are. Families choose to have bar mitzvahs or not for many different reasons. Bar Mitzvahs are a relatively modern phenomenon in the Jewish religion. Also, after you have kids, everything changes. People get very strong feelings about religion and how they want to raise there kids. It really has nothing to do with “love.” Religion is a lifelong journey that changes over time, so be prepared for that.
1) Whether someone is bar mitzvahed or not says very little about their beliefs and their connection to their religion. Some people feel a more cultural connection to Judaism than a religious one, others just didn’t get bar mitzvahed at age 12 or 13 because they were busy with school, their parents didn’t make them, or they didn’t care to put the time into preparing for it then. 2) It’s surprising that you guys had never talked about religion and the futures you envision for yourselves in your three years together, especially if, as you say, your own religion is meaningful to you.
I’m sorry it’s so hurtful to you. But your anger at your bf seems misplaced.
Also, did you just assume that he would marry you and raise your children Catholic without having a discussion about it? I really think this is the sort of thing that people of different backgrounds who are in serious relationships need to discuss – it won’t just work itself out on its own. Compromise, if that’s what works best for the two people involved, takes some forethought and clear channels of communication. Otherwise, no one is happy.
That doesn’t make it that much better.
So instead of him being dishonest and hiding this to keep you at his side for 3 yrs, you’re telling us that he’s a wimp with no balls who can’t stand up to his parents. That is NEVER a good thing in the long-run, because you’ll always have the in-laws overriding you at every corner and he will never, ever back you up. Yet another reason to leave and leave now.
I am Jewish and grew up surrounded by a lot of Jewish classmates in my neighborhood. This is a common concern amongst a lot of them – not so much about marrying someone of a different faith – but always about the children. I always thought it was silly, but then I dated a Catholic guy in college (for several years), and one day we had the chat about children. I realized that although I didn’t feel strongly at the time about raising kids in my faith, that I also couldn’t see myself with children raised only in a different faith.
My advice is also to caution you that this is a big red flag, and not at all uncommon. If you do not want to raise your kids Jewish, or if you two think that raising children with “both” religions is not acceptable, this could be a sticking point causing issues throughout the marriage. I also agree with prior commentors that you need to ask your BF how HE feels, as compared to his parents.
As a side note, I am now engaged to a Jewish man, and while I love him for reasons aside from his religion/heritage – I understand that this is one less giant hurdle to face in our future and I am grateful. If we weren’t hoping to have kids one day though, I think it would be a non-issue for the marriage.
According to a talk by the Love Doctor (the guy that movie Hitch was based on) at my undergraduate university, religion is the number one reason couples break up. I’m sorry this is happening to you OP, and I agree with the chorus – he just told you he isn’t going to marry you. That’s horrible and I wish it were different for your sake, but that’s what he told you. Religious differences are SO difficult to overcome because they go beyond actual belief systems and filter into culture and upbringing.
That being said – is it important to YOU to marry someone Catholic? To raise your children Catholic? Because it sounds like even if what he said came out wrong, that isn’t what he wants. It sounds to me like you guys have misaligned values.
What color shoes would you guys wear with a yellow-green dress? Sort of a Chartreuse I suppose. I’m worried black will look too 80s and I’m blanking otherwise. Navy might be nice but of course I don’t have any navy shoes :(
where are you wearing this dress?
More formal – nude for you shoes – maybe even patent leather.
Dressy – metallic sandals, maybe wedges?
grey?
oooh — grey!
I would wear nude shoes (whatever “nude” means for you). Or red-violet. Or, depending on the occasion, maybe a metallic.
I had a chartreuse-y dress a few years ago – wore it with both nude-for-me shoes and some orange (more of a darker red-orange, really) heels. Which sounds odd, I guess, but the dress did have some small ribbon detailing at the neckline that was a similar orange color.
Would this bag be weird as just an oversized clutch? I kind of love the color and texture…
I have it and use it as such.
While we’re talking about relationships, and updates, is commenter “In Disbelief” around? I’m wondering how things are going since you posted about your situation. Sending good thoughts; we all want to know how you’re doing.
Thanks, Monday.
I found a counselor who I think will be a good fit, and have my first appointment on Thursday. My husband is still refusing to engage in any discussions with me, so I am taking steps to separate finances, changing the lock on our apartment, etc.
It’s been incredibly hard, but two of my girlfriends flew in to be with me, and I’ve been surprised how many colleagues and new friends in my new city have really stepped up and been supportive. Not to mention all the Corporette love- I was so grateful for all of the kind words and helpful advice that has been provided here, when I was unsure how to express my fears, hurt, and anger to those who know us IRL.
So… I guess I’m still hoping there’s the possibility for reconciliation, but with every passing day getting closer to the likely reality that my husband doesn’t intend to work on us. I don’t deal well with uncertainty, but know that ultimately I will be ok.
I’m so glad people are coming forward for you. All my best wishes as you take these steps. I do hope you find some peace even with how crazy it all feels. Hug.
I was thinking about you too. I’m so sorry you’re going through this. Good luck to you.
Big hugs, and all my best wishes as well. I can’t even imagine how difficult this must be for you.
*extra hugs*
I’m glad that your girlfriends flew in to be with you. And I’m sorry things are still so uncertain, but relieved that you’ve taken steps to protect yourself as best as you can. Keep us posted, and we’ll certainly keep cheering for you and sending kind thoughts in your direction.
Oh yay. I’m glad things are turning around a little for the better.
Hi “In Disbelief”,
I just went back to your original post and read up on your experiences.
I am so sorry to hear about what you are going through. I am in Chicago and more than happy to meet up to listen, talk, and lend support. I am not sure the best way to connect, since I would rather not post my personal email on the blog, but if you are interested, we can connect through Kat, or I can set up a dummy account. Just reply here and I will follow up.
Also, a great personal counselor is Margaret O Griffiths. She has an office at 2524 N. Lincoln, near DePaul. She is a PhD Clinical Psychologist and I have found her to be super helpful – she does more that just listen, by guiding with process and planning.
I love the way people on corporette check in on each other like this.
To not be too off topic, I really like this and completely agree with Kat…on the other hand I always always need somewhere to put my keys and I don’t think this would work for that. Other than that…great!
You guise… I’m about to go into a networking event and my nail polish is chipped. They’re going to see right into me soul!!!!
Hahahaha, nice!
In other news I will have now posted as much as TCFKAG and that means…ruh-roh my billables!
If people keep mentioning my posting frequency, I’m going to have to cut back! ;-)
Veto.
Work it!!!!!!! I have two events this week and I’m having the hardest time between picking canary yellow or glittery lime green for my nails.
seriously, this is an easy one. canary yellow, with glittery lime green layered over it. we should be bffs.
Just as long as you don’t have a hair band on your wrist. For lo, if ye do, the judgment of many snarky womens shall rain down upon ye.
I wear a ‘friendship’ bracelet on my arm because my 11 year old daughter made it for me. It just occurred to me that it looks kind of like a really thin hair elastic. I’ve been wearing it since at least October and have been in the most high profile meetings of my career since then.
I think I’ve been advanced trolling without even knowing it.
I have mad skilz, y’all.
If Corporette had a “like” button, I would use it on this post.
Ditto.
First of all, the West Wing threadjack of a threadjack a few days ago now has me re-hooked on West Wing. I got a season out of the library, and I just ordered another from there. I want to be bitter about getting hooked on yet another TV show – but I just love it so much. Especially Matthew Perry in his guest spots.
Also, I was wondering if the Boston meet up is happening, happened, etc. I know someone once said that it had turned into a monthly thing?
It is generally the third Thursdays of each month. You can e-mail bostoncorporette@gmail.com to get added to the list.
Also, West Wing is the bomb. We can discuss ad naseum at the next meet-up. :-)
So sad I do not live in Boston!!!
Why do we always post at the same time!!! Get out of my head!
Lulz. We did it again.
Yes. It is a monthly thing. We usually meet the third Thursday of the month but if too many people are busy we choose another Thursday. Email BostonCorporette@gmail.com to get put on the list.
Blonde Lawyer — its posts like this that do NOTHING to help our case that we are not the same person.
I realized something must have been posted about BostonCorporette when I got 2 emails in a row. I have the BostonCorporette.gmail.com address forwarded to my personal email address. I’ve added everyone and will make sure you are included for the next event.
All of this makes me wonder how Gov Anon (she of the wine and Thin Mints dinner) is doing?
Ditto. Thinking of you Gov Anon!
I’ve been wondering about her, too! Please let us know how you’re doing, if you read this. Still sending good thoughts your way.
Somebody inquired recently about legal project management – I just noticed that the ABA is going to offer a free CLE webinar on the subject on April 16. Here’s a link: http://www.americanbar.org/calendar/2012/04/legal_project_management.html
On a light-hearted update:
I went to India recently and was recommended COMPASS Tours on this website. People asked that I follow up after the trip:
I couldn’t have been happier. I told them where I wanted to go (and they suggested a number different trips I could take with my timing if I wanted to), and what sort of lodging I was looking for, and they put it all together for me and my husband. We didn’t have to do anything! We’re vegetarian, and when we showed up there was a list of popular exclusively vegetarian restaurants for us to choose from (grouped by type of food served). There were drivers to pick us up at the airport, licensed tour guides to take us around to monuments, and everyone was enormously pleasant and spoke English. One driver especially was such a sweetie! I just gush about my trip whenever I think about it and definitely recommend Compass Tours to anyone planning an India trip.
Newbie runner advice?
Specifically, getting almost-blisters right below the balls of my feet, back towards my arches. Is there a speedy way to toughen this skin up? Bandaids aren’t staying on, and it’s a kind of large area for newskin. Or is this a sign I need different shoes?
Double-layered socks. They sell them for runners. And your shoes might not fit right. Also, I’d use moleskin if you are running through blisters. Cut out a shape like a donut & put it over the blister.
Ditto. Wrightsocks!
Also, your shoes may not fit right, or you may be lacing them too tightly/not tightly enough. Go to a real running store to get fitted, bring your shoes, you may need to get a different type. :)
Are double-layered socks the same as socks sold as “running socks” that wick moisture and have padding? I haven’t heard of double-layered socks.
Do you have running shoes or are you just using general athletic shoes? Having your gait tested and properly fitted at a running store is WORTH it. I had terrible pain in my feet, then got tested and bought a pair of shoes made for running (New Balance) and now I have zero problems. Also, better socks will cut down on the blisters. Though, with good shoes you won’t get blisters (I don’t and I run half marathons). Have fun!
Thanks ladies. I had no idea there were athletic sock options beyond the $10 10-pack from Target. Will try them in the interim before I can get to the store for better shoes.
I always get horrible blisters, and no matter how “tough” my feet get, they never stop developing, my solution: Put medical tape (a long strip or wrapped, but not too tightly) right over the area where the blisters are prone to popping up right before a run.
I do this with my work heels – it works like a charm and since you can get it in clear – no one notices…
I think you need different shoes or at least new inserts. Most likely your shoe doesn’t provide adequate arch support, which is leading to your foot “flattening” on each strike and causing the rubbing on the front of the arch. Go to a running store (NOT Sports Authority, etc.) if possible and have them fit you for a shoe.
If you are in the right shoe, I like coolmesh socks and body glide. The combo should prevent most blisters.
Good luck!
I second the advice to go to a running store to get fitted for shoes and to get double layer socks. People generally need a pair of running shoes one full size larger than their street shoes and most people will not realize this on their own.
Finally, if all else fails, duct tape over the area where you are blistering. I learned this while backpacking out west.
Hi everyone — This is my first TJ to the community – its so late though that I am wondering if I might need to re-post it tomorrow or soon.
I am a junior associate in Biglaw and avid reader of NGDGTCO and corporette comments. I went relatively straight through college and law school, so I’m young and feel like I’m finally embarking on a career and I’m excited but nervous about it.
The thing is, I keep comparing myself to my co-worker (another female who started in the same practice the same year as me), and I get disheartened/jealous to see her trajectory going up, while mine is progressing … fine, but not to the same degree. Although we are only juniors, she’s been tapped to be a mentor to newer associates, and to join multiple planning committees (which tend to be run by the same people, sort of a cliquey thing I’m realizing). She also seems to get assignments with the more sought after attorneys in my group.
I don’t know that her work quality is any better, although I do tend to think she might be more sociable and easy going than me (though I am generally sociable). Honestly, I know this is an unhealthy thing for me to worry about – and I’m looking for suggestions on how to either get over the comparing/competitiveness, or how to do something about it so I don’t continue to feel like my firm is only grooming my colleague to be a star associate.
Also appreciate any generic advice from women about how they found their grooves at work, and what they did when they felt their career wasn’t starting off on the right path.
You should re-post this. Preferably near the start of a thread.