Coffee Break: Marti Leather Shoulder Bag

153 Comments

1. DH’s birthday is coming up next month but I am out of ideas. We have to be out of town the weekend of his birthday and the weekend before for weddings. He has said he wants to just stay at home and be lazy but I want to honor him/make him feel special somehow. It’s been a hectic few months in our life so ideas on low-key, relaxing, and fun ideas would be great. We both love to explore, eat out etc.

   I frequently cook him his favorite meals and we eat out often so those things alone don’t feel quite special. We live in Los Angeles FWIW

   TIA!

   1. I’d just take him up on what he said he wants: a day at home being lazy. Breakfast, doing nothing, ordering in, favorite movies, favorite other activities …

      What’s his personality? If he’s an introvert who actually really does like time home alone doing nothing, you could even arrange to give him some hours at home alone. If I’d been going and traveling and working and doing weddings and being out of town, time at home alone being lazy would be what I wanted. Not more activity.

      1. +1

         If I asked for a lazy night at home on my b-day, after traveling for weddings two weeks in a row, I would be really bummed if my SO planned “fun” exploring/eating out etc..

         I would cook his favorites, cocktails and a great bottle of wine, have his favorite shows/flicks to watch, maybe some s3xy-time ….

         1. I hate being obligated on my birthday. If you asked me what I wanted, I’d say “sleep.” Maybe a massage.

   2. Honor him by honoring his express wishes for the day! Here my suggestions for lazy-special things you can ask him whether he wants to do: fancy breakfast he doesn’t have to cook, watching movies, takeout, reading aloud, baking, binge-watching a favorite TV show, board games.

   3. For my birthday last year, my husband got takeout breakfast from our yummy local diner and I started my day blowing out candles stuck in my French toast. For the kids’ birthdays, he makes an early morning donut run so they start their day with candles in donuts. Simple but special to kick off the day.

      1. I like this idea!

         He did get excited when i mentioned trips to NYC or Seattle (on weekends later in the summer) so maybe i’ll make his day special and plan a trip for later in the year as my present

      2. Yes this. To make the low-key feel more celebratory, just add candles and balloons.

         Get or make breakfast, and add birthday candles to it. Pick up some of those large number balloons from a party store. Plan a picnic lunch with a walk or drive to a local park (or if weather is bad, set up a picnic on your living room floor). Eat your normal dinner, but set the table and dim the lights and light some candles. Finish with a special dessert and fancy drink.

         Any or all of these will still mark the day as special, but take very little planning and effort. This is exactly how we celebrate adult birthdays in my family – one or two of the above options, with immediate family, feels decadent and fun.

   4. I agree. I wish I had a day that I could just sit back and be lazy, but even on weekends, I must work to bill all of my client’s equitabley each week. That entails a lot of thought and reflection, as to who got the benefit of my advise and who did NOT, and then I must allocate to get to my 170 hours. Often I divide the billings evenly b/c what I learn for one client, I apply with another and vise versea, so this way everyone gets to share in my knowledge.

      If I had a husband, I would make him help me with the math, but now I just use my iPhone calculator to figure out my bills, and then I add the manageing partner’s separate uplift for his share of review of my work, which is now down to 30%, since I am a partner. When I was an associate, I got a 50% uplift from him, but he now cannot bill 50% of my bills since I am the one who is in charge of my client’s and they resent that he adds 30%. FOOEY b/c he is holding that against me and not counting uplifts any more for me.

   5. Can you have a couples massage come to the house?

   6. I swear this is the best suggestion–if he wants a lazy day, get yourself some awesome l i n g e r i e and work it. Your present to him is you…in the best way. Then donuts or French Toast the next morning.

2. Any suggestions on how to pick myself up? I hate my job – my management is horrible and the pay is abysmal. I live in a VHCOL area and am struggling to make ends meet. I’m currently job searching, and have been rejected for everything I’ve applied for so far. For the last job, which was as close to a dream job as I’ve ever found, I went through 3 interviews and 4 online assessments before I was rejected. My personal life is a mess – my cat died recently, drama with my SO’s family that he and I are dealing with, and my uncle who lives in Europe had a heart attack last week. I have migraines and terrible allergies (going to the doctor next week for help with both). I want to take a personal/mental health day, but I can’t afford a spa day or most of the things that get recommended on here. I’m just feeling so down in the dumps. Sorry for the depressing rant!

   1. For a low cost rejuvenation day how’s this sound: set alarm an hour later than usual, make coffee and take it to the park, pick up a treat on the way, sit with it and read a book outside. Take a bath. Paint your nails.

   2. Has anyone told you how great you are lately?

      You are GREAT!!!!!

   3. I’m sorry you’re having such a rough time lately. Take it easy on yourself and just let yourself be sad for a bit. You don’t have to do a full out spa day but consider taking some time to do the things you like for yourself this weekend. Some low-cost/free options:

      – Groupon massage or class/activity
      – See if you can join a yoga studio on a trial basis for a week. A lot of yoga studios also do community classes where you can pay what you wish
      – Go for a walk in a nice part of town/near the beach/nature
      – Make yourself a delicious beverage and just sit still for a few moments
      – Try out a sheet mask, combine with a relaxing bath or diy mani/pedi
      – Invite friends over for a pizza and movie night
      – Invite someone over to cook together, they can buy the groceries while you provide the drinks
      – Go to a local dog park and watch/play with the dogs
      – Check out a museum or other places in your city you’ve been putting off

      After you’ve taken some time off, get back into the job application process. You made it through a grueling multi-step interview process. This means you’re awesome and kickass! I know you didn’t get the job but congratulate yourself on making it so far into the process for a dream job. There may not be a dream job posted currently but there will be more on the way. Keep an eye out. Work your network to see if any unlisted opportunities exist.

   4. I’m sorry you’re having such a rough time lately. Take it easy on yourself and just let yourself be sad for a bit. You don’t have to do a full out spa day but consider taking some time to do the things you like for yourself this weekend. Other low-cost/free options:

      – Groupon massage or class/activity
      – See if you can join a yoga studio on a trial basis for a week. A lot of yoga studios also do community classes where you can pay what you wish
      – Go for a walk in a nice part of town/near the beach/nature
      – Make yourself a delicious beverage and just sit still for a few moments
      – Try out a sheet mask, combine with a relaxing bath or diy mani/pedi
      – Invite friends over for a pizza and movie night
      – Invite someone over to cook together, they can buy the groceries while you provide the drinks
      – Go to a local dog park and watch/play with the dogs
      – Check out a museum or other places in your city you’ve been putting off

      After you’ve taken some time off, get back into the job application process. You made it through a grueling multi-step interview process. This means you’re awesome and kickass! I know you didn’t get the job but congratulate yourself on making it so far into the process for a dream job. There may not be a dream job posted currently but there will be more on the way. Keep an eye out. Work your network to see if any unlisted opportunities exist.

   5. how about just a ME day. Doesn’t have to be fancy- a nice soak in the tub, a really good book, go for a walk in your favourite place and listen to an engaging podcast/audio book/song. Ask for some quiet time at home and ask husband to take care of all the regular stuff that needs to get done. Watch a REALLY FUNNY movie and laugh your heart out. This sounds like a lot of draining emotional work for you lately. be gentle with yourself.

   6. I’d still take the day off, even if you can’t afford a spa day. Plan a day off with breakfast of fresh fruit, mimosa (virgin or not) and a treat something different than your normal breakfast – like a purchased muffin or a homemade dutch baby. Then go for a walk in a nature preserve or a park or along a body of water. Practice mindfulness while walking to clear your head. Then do an at-home spa day with face mask, manicure/pedicure, long shower/bath, scented body lotion etc. Then lunch and a nap. Perhaps a video yoga session or some physical activity you like before an early dinner. Read a book or watch a movie you’ve been wanting to see. Ignore news, thoughts of work or new job. Go to bed early. Hope the uncle gets well and the job search goes better.

   7. Longer post keeps disappearing – Maybe its in mod.

      In short, take some time to do the free things you love like walks in nature or a class on groupon. You made it through a grueling interview process so take time to recharge and then get back in the game. You got this!

   8. Just posted a long reply – hope it shows up!

   9. You are being really strong. With everything going on, you keep pushing. Be proud of yourself. Know that you have strength. Take care of yourself, sleep in, listen to restorative music (I listen to my ‘oldies’ during times like this), make comforting food, get some sunlight, take a walk in nature (the gym always puts me in a better mood, but when I am super down I cant stomach it. In that case, a walk helps).

   10. I understand people who say don’t reward yourself with food – but there’s something really nice about going out for a cocktail and dessert, or just going somewhere for a big ice cream sundae and then taking a nap after.

   11. I’m so sorry about your cat, and hope your uncle is doing better. Agree with the restorative benefits of nature and green space. I’m hating my job and actively searching too, and sometimes I just have to take a breather from the job search, so maybe that and implement the ideas from others. If you have some PTO maybe look at your calendar and schedule them so you have something to look forward to?

   12. Thank you all! Upon reading your replies, most of this seems like it should have been obvious to me, but sometimes it’s hard to think about self-care, so I greatly appreciate all the suggestions.

   13. Hug?

       I will also say this: it will eventually, sometime, get better. You won’t ever look back on this part of your life and laugh, but it does get better.

3. This is probably a dumb question, but what’s the best way to buy a new iphone these days? My current phone is an Iphone 6, and at the time, I bought it outright from AT&T (my current provider) for a (slightly) discounted rate. Now, it seems like my only option is to essentially lease it from AT&T until I decide to upgrade it for a new phone (but I don’t get to keep the phone, just trade it in) or to buy it at full price from the Apple Store (or through AT&T but not at a discount).

   Am I missing something or are these the only options? In the past, I’ve been able to get a good $150-200 for selling my (wiped clean) phone on ebay, and I’d like to keep that option open but not if it doesn’t make financial sense to. Thanks!

   1. I have AT&T and I think this is basically correct. If you plan to sell it eventually it still makes sense to buy it from Apple, right, even without the discount (which was minimal, if I recall). I bought our last 2 phones from Apple because we had a gift card to use up, and it was super convenient. I didn’t need to go to AT&T to set it up or anything – Apple took care of it.

      1. I bought my current iPhone straight from Apple (full price, there really aren’t any subsidized ways to get a phone anymore), and they gave me some credit for the old iPhone I was trading in. They’ll wipe it clean right in the store before issuing you the credit.

         1. I think Apple gives you some additional perks like free apple care, which includes fixing your screen for a minimal fee if it cracks, etc. Not sure if it’s still the case, but it was last year.

            1. I recently bought an iPhone at the Apple store and Apple Care was definitely not free.

   2. Not a dumb question. They used to give them to us for practically free and now we are addicts.

   3. One small hack–you can buy discounted Apple gift cards at Costco. So you could get those (however many you need) at a discount, and then take them to the Apple store to buy. That might help

      1. This is what I do – I think they are 15-20% discounted. However, the Apple store does not take iTunes gift cards. I was behind a very disappointed woman last week trying to buy a macbook with several iTunes cards.

         I trade in my wiped iPhone and save myself the hassle of selling on eBay. After fees and shipping, I’m satisfied with the trade in amount.

4. Quick: I need a hotel near Grand Central in NYC. Any recs? I’ve found plenty on google, but they all look so cold and formal. Are there any maybe historic ones that are a little cozier? Right now, the Westin is in the lead just because it looks comfortable. (And I’m expensing this – up to $500/night is fine.) Thanks!

   1. I’ve never stayed there, but the Renwick is nearby.

   2. check out Hotel48Lex

      1. oh sorry, not historic

   3. Not historic, but check out the Library Hotel. The NY Palace is on Madison and 50th.

   4. I stay at the Lexington hotel on Lex btwn 47-48. It’s an historic property and is a Marriott, which I like because I have Marriott status.

   5. The answer is The Algonquin.

      1. Yes! The Algonquin or the Iroquois.

         1. I love the Iroquois, stayed there many times. The rooms are nicer than the Algonquin but it’s just down the street so you can easily go there for drinks.

      2. +1, they have a cat.

         But if money is no object you can try the Palace on Madison and 50th (it’s ~ 10 min. walk). Obviously, if convenience is more important, I assume you know that the Hyatt is basically on top of GC and is perfectly nice.

   6. Hotel Elysee is about .6 mile from Grand Central. It’s historic and the thing I liked best about it is its club lounge, which is available to all guests. The lounge has breakfast, wine, and snacks and it’s a very comfortable place to hang out alone.

   7. The Refinery is 0.7 mile from Grand Central. It is a converted hat factory and very cool with a good restaurant and a very popular rooftop bar.

      1. It’s super fab but just be aware that “very popular” means “super crowded.”

         1. The bar is crowded. The last time I was there though they let us jump the queue because we were hotel guests.

      2. I was just going to recommend the Refinery. Loved staying there. It’s very cool and the rooftop bar is awesome. The rooms were beautiful – very old NYC garment district.

5. Not sure if anyone read the article in the Atlantic on the top 9.9% — it’s long. Basically highlight the class that’s below the 0.1% — the Gates, Buffetts etc. To be in the top 9.9% net worth must be $1.2 mil. Highlights how people who aren’t necessarily born rich but def born with advantages — stable home, parents who believe in education, college is talked about as a given since birth; talks about how these types view it all as a meritocracy and once they climb the ladder, they pull it up to protect what’s theirs — only raise their own kids in the best school districts with like minded folks, get their kids jobs/internships thru said folks etc.

   To what extend do you think this happens? To what extend do you disagree and not live this way. Don’t have kids but my reaction was — I’ve worked hard to get here, of course putting my kids on the same or better path would be the top priority, moreso than worrying about the playing field for total strangers. But maybe this is too simple an interpretation?

   1. Of course having a stable home, with parents who believe in education, who support your choice to go to college as a given, growing up in safe community with similar values is a HUGE advantage. Perhaps the biggest.

      1. This sort of home used to be routine even for poorer families (like my mom, who had an outhouse growing up). I think now most households aren’t like this (and maybe only rich ones are).

      2. And yes, even the most liberal of my friends are ultra demanding of their right for their kids to go to the best (public) schools and have access to the best services, yet…. it is totally unfair and discriminatory that if you are a minority or less financially privileged in most communities your schools can be quite poor. Who is fighting for those kids?

         It is really unconstitutional that property taxes underwrite public education. Shameful in our society. And nobody bats an eye these days.

         My kids could grow up going to school in a paper box with some books to read and they would be fine. We should be investing more in those kids who grow up with so little, who need more help. But we don’t.

         I do worry about these “total strangers” and am disappointed our society doesn’t.

         1. Do you just worry or would you actually take away from your own kids for their benefit?

            1. Ideally, you ensure your kids have the best, but are also an activist working to level the playing field.

   2. I think this happens all the time. I have a kid, and I struggle with balancing my left-leaning values against my instinct to give my kid the best of everything to set her up for future success. As a simple example, giving my kid the “best” means moving to a “better” (read: whiter, wealthier) school district, resulting in further segregation of our public schools and perpetuates a cycle of (racist) inequality.

      1. And yet you’re doing that (best district), right?

         1. The Ethicist column in the NYT had a piece about this and the conclusion was basically that, ethically speaking, your higher obligation is to your kid not to improving a struggling school at the cost of your own child. Obviously, the details are more complicated than just all that. And the ethics of it are just one component.

            The point in that article that I found the most interesting because it’s so seldom talked about is how the people in the bottom of the 9.9% don’t realize that they’re not “basically middle class” by a long shot.

            1. Each person has a higher duty to their own children– that is exactly why we need collective action/government to step in to properly distribute education. I’m frustrated and mad that we’ve done such a poor job at this in our country. There is no reason why everyone shouldn’t be able to get a good public education in this country.

         2. I’m the person who grew up in a poor rural community below, so not the person you’re responding to. But I’ve got my kids in a middle-tier school district (rated below a 4 on Zillow). It’s incredibly diverse with a majority of kids who aren’t native English speakers, and the median household income is well below ours. The school is good, with teachers who care and a good curriculum, but the kids are rough behaviorally and many still don’t speak English so the classroom is disruptive.

            I want my kids to grow up with an understanding of low income families, I want them to have diverse friends, I want them to be bilingual. But many of my college friends and coworkers think I’m “sacrificing my kids’ education and safety” and basically an awful parent. It’s really hard to stay firm in my decision, and I have many days where I question if I’m doing the right thing. My kids are doing well academically, they’ve got great friends of all backgrounds, and they’re reading and writing in two languages already. I try to remind myself that these are the things that will set them up to succeed in life and be compassionate human beings. I hope I’m right.

            All of this to say, I don’t judge anyone for their choices. I grew up poor and now pass for upper middle class, but I had a lot of luck in getting to this place. I worry my kids won’t have that same luck and I’m taking away advantages that really do make a difference in life, just because I care about whether they’re empathetic adults. It’s a really hard decision to make, and even harder to stick with.

            1. Hi, are you me?

               One benefit that I see is that my kids have a bit more understanding that life is hard and how hard it is to make a dollar. Their school has uniforms. They get handed down when they are outgrown b/c people truly need them (so we buy from Lands End and they last through my two and then some). But Walmart uniforms are also great.

               I didn’t want my kids to think that you just make 100K/year or that marble and granite are how apartments are. I had basement laundry for years and that is NORMAL and OK, not a sign you are a bad person or a failure.

            2. Yeah wow. You should want them to get ahead but be giving them a full time lesson in empathy.

      2. I know a lot of poorer families in rural / meth belt areas who aren’t particularly religious who are nevertheless homeschooling their children because the schools (and their meth belt problems) are that bad. I know someone who does this and then works two overnights at the hospice to make ends meet. People who value education will do all sorts of things to educate their children even if they can’t throw $ at the problem or move. In maybe 60% of the country, there is no “move to a better district” that isn’t really uprooting your whole life in a way that may not work for many families, esp. if you have lots of intergenerational caregiving.

         1. This is how I made it to college. It really isn’t a solution for everyone who values education; even the worst schools still function as daycare. I do think more people need to realize just how actively harmful a bad school can be; it’s sadly not that hard to at least do better.

      3. My poor, single mother moved us to a relatively wealthy suburb where we lived in small apartments so that we could be in a good school district. I know this isn’t an option for everyone, but not many people would fault her for doing this. Leaves me wondering why we fault wealthier people who do the same. Instead we should be faulting our systems that leave people with this crappy choice.

         1. We should. But I’ll give you an example of why: in NYC there is a constant struggle between public school parents and the Bd of Ed not only because some schools need to be better but also because some good schools in wealthier and less diverse areas will then be opened up to take in more kids from more struggling schools and the wealthy parents always put up a fight. So it’s not just a matter of “move to a better school district” but also a matter of “keep your ‘bad’ students out of my ‘good’ school.”
            As long as education is funded by property taxes this will be an issue everywhere.

            1. Not just NYC. Too many of the wealthy people want to protect their high home values by keeping school ratings high, which comes from only “letting in” kids who have doctors and lawyers and CEOs as parents (which sometimes just implies they can afford fancy tutoring to offset any issues). Those are the same parents who have lots of community connections and can put lots of pressure on a school board. “Come on Jim, you know my family has donated to the schools for generations! Let’s talk about the referendum over golf this Friday before you finalize it for the voters.”

            2. I recently learned that schools weren’t required to teach “problem” students until the 70s. If a student with learning differences or behavioral issues was deemed disruptive to the class, they could be kicked out and sent to a separate institution (with often tragic outcomes). Since learning this, I’ve wondered if “bad” students just remain an unsolved problem for the school system.

            3. @4:58 I never thought of how the incentives play out, but that makes perfect sense.

         2. In addition to what prior Anons have stated, many wealthy areas have rules prohibiting apartments or lots below a certain size to keep home values high. In order to prevent people from doubling up as an alternative method of obtaining residency for certain high-ranking public schools, there are laws against how many unrelated people can live in a home.

            1. I was so angry when I learned about the size restrictions in my town, I guess because it feels so wasteful to set a relatively extravagant housing size as a minimum. I’ve noticed that co-operative housing communities will have smaller units, I think because the application process to join the co-op makes them feel safe about who might end up moving in.

   3. My knee jerk reaction – isn’t anyone with a net worth of $1.2 million (which includes house and retirement) kind of considered upper middle class? To me, it just emphasizes how “middle” the middle class is not, if the majority of people (90%) are below that marker.

      Or alternatively, just how much wealth is locked up in that 0.1%! And then I think about what can be done to redistribute that wealth.

      1. I wonder how productive these discussions about what percent of people have what net worth are. If you’re 70 and have a net worth of $1.2m that’s quite a bit different than having that net worth at 22.

      2. Right? $1.2M sounds like not a lot of money at all. I am not sure I would even consider it upper middle class, to be honest.

         1. Only 10% of households get there so maybe it isn’t much to you but it is a lot to most. Even fewer ever get there if that 1.2 is just investable NW not including any real estate.

            1. Right, a NW of 1.2 M could mean a middle class person who lives in a HCOL area who bought a home in the 1990s, with no other assets.

            2. 5:36 Anon, that is exactly what I meant by it not seeming like that much. The OP did not say it was not to include real estate, which is a very different number altogether.

         2. What?? It’s a huge amount of money.

            1. There are many blue collar, low income people in the Bay Area with very modest homes worth over $1.2 million – because they bought them before the tech boom for $300k or whatever. I agree that having $1.2m in cash is pretty substantial but if you include real estate in net worth it really depends a huge amount on where you live.

            2. @9:19 – those people are still in the minority relative to the rest of the country. If you can sell a million dollar home at some point, you’re doing really well in life!

   4. My parents are 9.9 percenters and this was pretty much their view. They give money to charity but never would have put me in mediocre schools even though that kind of thing helps less advantaged kids.

   5. I read it the other day and I’ve been thinking about it quite a bit. As a former high school teacher in a very blue collar area where most kids would go on to the trades or community college (if they went anywhere), and then a teacher in a very wealthy suburb, I saw this happen consistently. I think American society has become stratified and economically segregated to a point that is absolutely shameful. Economic mobility has ground to a halt, and I’m sick of the bootstrap mentality. When a hard-working student from my first school would have to work to put themselves through a community college program (and often end up not finishing in order to pay the bills, whether their own or their parents’), and a lazy student at the ritzy high school got to go to a pricy liberal arts school without debt and come out with a solid job, we have a BIG problem.

      As for your comment that, “I’ve worked hard to get here, of course putting my kids on the same or better path would be the top priority, moreso than worrying about the playing field for total strangers. But maybe this is too simple an interpretation?”– this attitude is the crux of the problem. As long as we only focus on our own kids and only pay lip service to helping our less well-off children, this will persist and the chasm will deepen. I guess I worked “hard” (but who doesn’t believe that about themselves?), but I had a stable home and parents who were college educated, and grew up in a community and time and place where nearly everyone went to a four year school.

      I’m not entirely sure what workable solution there is as long as school districts are largely funded by local taxes, college tuition is becoming out of reach of the true middle class and our social safety net is so meager. I’m in that 9.9%, but I need to do better by our kids.

      1. Well resources are limited even at 9.9% — do you feel ok taking away from your own family for the benefit of others?

         1. To a some extent, yes, but of course there’s no real way of opting completely out of privilege. But the real change has to happen at the national level. I’m no Koch, so I can’t have any real influence on how things work. I’m civically active and still work in the public sector in a helping role, but obviously that has only small effects. I have helped past students from my first school pay for college textbooks and in one case, a computer. I also meet up with a few for coffee and moral support on occasion to try to pay it forward in a small way. It’s tough out there for many of our kids :-(

         2. And frankly, to say that “resources are limited” at the 9.9% level sounds out of touch. Of course money is finite, but we don’t have to worry much about medical bills or putting a roof over our head. At this level, it’s taking fewer vacations or forgoing some fancy dinners out. Not at all the same thing!

            1. Yes!

         3. Yes. If we could combine the richest and poorest school in my state and have the richer school be a little lesser with the poorer school a lot greater, I would 100% send my kids to that school.

            1. It’s not just the fact that the kids are poor, it’s how they/their families are that would want them not near my kids. Poverty wasn’t like that back in the day – good people, good manners, stable homes with less. Fine. Now it’s trash — multiple baby daddies; mama cursing left and right so kids pick if up; half of them don’t speak English; older brothers doing who knows what. No thanks.

            2. Finland does not generally allow private schools, and they have one of the best education systems in the world. I know it would never happen here, but school inequality would change with lightning speed if that were to happen here. More people need to have skin in the game in educating all of our kids. And frankly, more of our wealthy kids need to be exposed to poverty to develop empathy.

            3. Oh, for the good old days, when immigrants all spoke English… give me a break.

            4. The original immigrants spoke mainly Dutch and Spanish and then there were some . . . French speakers.

            5. Ok so they spoke Dutch (not really I’m taking about poverty in 1965 not 1865 but whatever). Tell me did they have 3 kids with 3 different baby daddies and was mom dropping the f in every other sentence including when dropping kids off at school? Sorry not everyone wants anything to do with these people, if you do, feel free to buy a home next door.

            6. Do you just post these articles so you have an opportunity to be racist? I mean, really? What’s up with this place lately.

            7. @ 4:45 – I intentionally bought in a town that has both high and low income families specifically so my children could be exposed to that. I specifically chose not to buy in the highest income town because I didn’t want my kids going to school of all white kids from high income households.

               I also don’t view people as trash. Plenty of great kids come from “trashy” parents and plenty of awesome parents raise jerks “see Brock Turner.” My kids can learn that some kids have half siblings, some kids are allowed to swear.

            8. They have actually done studies and integrating schools this way led to much much higher outcomes for the poor kids, and the exact same outcomes for the rich kids. I do send my kids to public school because I think it is better for them and better for the schools and better for the kids in most need.

         4. But here’s my question. How much are you really taking away from your own family? Obviously that amount is highly variable based on what choices you make, but after ensuring that your kids get a) good schools, tutors, extra curriculars, good colleges, internships, maybe seed money to start their professional lives, a down payment, at a certain point, what else can you spend money on to help them? Yes, resources are limited even at 9.9%- that’s just math. But how much are you really taking away from your own family’s opportunities?

            Also, a healthy, educated society benefits everyone.

            1. Anon at 4:34, yes, of course I can’t really “take away” that much from my kids because whatever I do, even if I give away my money and quit my job, my kids will still benefit from privilege (which I stated in my original comment). My husband and I are buying in a diverse district with a middle of the road school rather than the top-notch districts we could afford. After being a high school teacher in a past life, I don’t believe much in most tutoring, so that’s out… we won’t pay for anything beyond undergrad, and we aren’t wealthy enough to provide “seed money to start professional lives” unless you count in-state tuition (which is still huge!).

               You say “Yes, resources are limited even at 9.9%- that’s just math. But how much are you really taking away from your own family’s opportunities?”– this is exactly what I meant when I said above that I can’t ever get rid of my privilege. I recognize that my kids will have a much easier go of things than many others, which is why I’m so mad about our current system. But I’m not privileged enough to be in power to change it.

               And anon troll at 4:45 really needs to be moderated, Kat.

         5. I would be 100% okay with having my local taxes be distributed on an equal basis across the state. I would also be fine with paying a bit more in taxes and having all students guaranteed a free state school tuition somewhere. It still wouldn’t be 100% equal (a stable home with involved adults is not something anyone can guarantee, and wealthy schools will still outraise in PTA funds, etc.) but it would go a long way.

            1. I feel like a stable home with involved adults is something we somehow have to decide to guarantee. Giving up and abandoning children to abuse and neglect is just not good enough. What else are we doing if we can’t do that much?

            2. I think one step towards guaranteeing that is – based on the research I read anyway – by having greater access to education and economic opportunity.

      2. In the USA, we care so little about other people’s children, that in addition to the school issue, we don’t have paid maternity leave. I worry that this issue will get worse as demographics change.

   6. I know people who make a lot who do both. Buy the home in Bethesda so their kids go to the best schools but also donate a 100k back to their university every few years to be used as merit/grant money for kids who have it tough. Can it been seen as taking some money away from their own kids, sure. But their view is by having a top k-12 education plus college and grad school paid for, their kids have enough and it’s time to share.

      1. If they really wanted to pay it fwd, probably better to give to a community college annual fund than fancy school’s annual fund. The magnitude of life change per dollar spent is astounding at the community college level, where it is primarily first-generation students, poor students, and immigrants.

         1. They didn’t go to a fancy college or law school. Went to non flagship state u in a rural part of the state (which is where they donate) and then a state flagship law school.

            1. I think that in general, HYP/HYS alumni give to their schools and those kids really don’t need it in the same way that first generation state / community college students do. Alumni giving compounds the inequality.

            2. True. The people i’m referring to grew up LMC themselves so when they endowed scholarships at rural state u, they would only do it if the applicant hit certain criteria for financial need etc. They were quite explicit with the university that they’d only donate if money went to a certain type of student. Usually you’re right though – ivy grads giving back to an ivy.

         2. Depends on if they’re earmarking it for financial aid for low-income students even if they did give it to a “fancy school”. Often the largest chance of real social mobility occurs when the poorest students attend the most elite colleges. Check out Chetty’s research.

            1. I have to anecdotally disagree and say that in my parents generation, the GI bill was a large reason for wealth creation and most of those people went to State U, not the most elite colleges.

   7. I thought it was interesting that he brought up health. When I made it to college, I was simply astonished at how healthy many people were. It completely changed my perspective on aging; my classmates’ grandparents were doing better than people my parents’ age back home. I don’t even know whether it’s just good genes, or a combination of good genes and generations of good nutrition, not living in neighborhoods downstream of the factories (or not working in the factories), having the leisure to maintain a healthy lifestyle, having better healthcare and education, making better health choices, and so on. Obviously it makes sense that people who feel good and have a lot of energy get farther in life than people who are struggling uphill with a lot of health issues, but it’s different to actually witness what that looks like.

      1. All of those things plus preventative care their whole lives. Even little things being off like vitamin d and iron make a BIG difference. Someone with health insurance and the kind of job where taking a few hrs off go to a dr catches these things far before someone who only goes in when they feel awful.

      2. I grew up in a poor rural working town and I’ll agree health/ self-care is a huge factor. When I met others in college and even when I moved to a middle class suburb and started working at a corporation, I couldn’t believe how good most people looked.

         Then I became friends with people, and I was SHOCKED at how many people got regular haircuts (from a stylist, not at Supercuts), spent money on pimple creams and fancy shampoo, went in for preventative doctor visits, actually had a dentist, bought new clothes every month or two, etc. And yes, it completely changed my perspective on aging. Pretty much everyone over age 50 back home has a “bum knee” or “bad back” or that never got properly treated, and that doesn’t seem to be as much of a thing for the upper middle class.

         It’s not having to struggle against health issues, and it’s also about being able to look the part and feel confident. Stringy hair and adult acne and yellow teeth and ill-fitting 5 year old clothes from Walmart make it really hard to get taken seriously by your professors, let alone get a “good” job in a bigger city. I hadn’t really realized the people on TV were more representative of the middle class in that respect, and not just “hollywood beautiful”.

         1. I was shocked when my parents stopped buying Suave and bought Pantene. Since when did we become rich?

            I was in my 20s — I guess with kids out of their house it was the equivalent of getting a big raise :)

         2. Teeth are a HUGE class marker. I hated that so many of my former students were never or rarely able to visit the dentist.

         3. I grew up in a very poor, unsafe, Hispanic neighborhood in Los Angeles with a single mom, who was a housekeeper. I absolutely never went to the doctor unless I was sick, never went to the dentist unless my teeth hurt. We cut each other’s hair, and all of our clothes were from Goodwill/Salvation Army/thrift stores. We rarely ate meat or fresh produce, ate a lot of beans and rice. It was my normal.

            We moved to wealthy neighborhood so I could go to a good public high school-not sure if she was motivated by better educational opportunities or safety (there were major gang problems in our neighborhood), or both. She sold her car and I worked as a dishwasher until we could make a security deposit/first month’s rent on a one-room apartment. I can’t imagine anyone faulting her for making this decision.

            I was also shocked at all the “luxuries” my new friends had, like you know, getting their teeth cleaned. Let alone living in house with their own room and having their own car!

            1. I’m Anon at 4:24. To this day, getting my teeth cleaned at the dentist is an actual pleasure for me, because every time I’m reminded of my first dentist visit at age 22 and how luxurious that “clean feeling” was when I ran my tongue over my teeth. (All the braces and crowns and whitening and other fixes came later, but that first appointment was magical.)

      3. I think this in an excellent point about health! My dad made it to the 9.9% probably before I went off to college, but had a number of health issues and died relatively young. While I have no reason to believe that money would have prevented his ultimate cause of death, some of his poor health was due to habits formed when he was young and poor and trying to save money and get ahead. Other unhealthy habits were likely due to being raised by parents who had known what I’m now realizing was likely true poverty as children.

         I learned habits and values that were passed down from people who needed them given poverty. Even though I have plenty, it’s not always easy to put these habits and values totally aside in favor of healthier, but far more expensive, ways of living. I’m hoping that I can teach my kids these healthier, more expensive, ways of living so that it will always be their normal.

   8. I think the problem isn’t so much in any given group of people doing the best possible for their kids, but in how hard it is for everyone else to get started, get back up again after stumbling, or even just provide the basics for their families.

      Though, I see where some of “doing the best for one’s kids” actually works to harm others. For example, my region has a severe shortage of housing. In my city, people who claim to be concerned about traffic safety or school crowding have actively opposed new construction, contributing to obscene housing costs. Though, it’s actually more complex than that— my impression is that a lot of the people making these arguments don’t actually have school-aged children. Rather, they want less construction for less community-minded reasons, but make these arguments because they sound better.

      1. But come on – doesn’t EVERYONE who has paid good money to move to a certain area object (whether vocally or in their heart of hearts) to affordable housing or a drug rehab near them?

         1. IDK — it would be one thing to move in some scattered moderate income apartments into stable neighborhoods, but our city has huge concentrations of chronic poverty that I don’t see how you can break up (so the schools match the neighbhorhood). And I wouldn’t move there or put my kids in school there (I’d homeschool first; instead, my kids now to to public school in a good but not great district that is very convenient to work).

            The only thing that changes these neighborhoods is that my sunbelt city is growing like crazy, so at some point the renters all can’t afford to stay and the worst places get bulldozed and new marble-and-granite condos go up and then the wave of people getting priced out starts. But, initially, no one with kids will move there b/c the schools are horrendous (in terms of academic achievement, but often for violence that gets them on the 11:00 news).

         2. I wish my city just had a problem getting approvals for affordable housing for people who are destitute.

            We have people who actively worked to defeat affordable housing for middle class seniors (claiming they’d add too much traffic) and who oppose any construction that might bring market starter home prices down to something below $2 million.

            1. Are you in SF / Bay area? B/c I can’t imagine that being the case anywhere else. In the SEUS, we can still build out and up and we do build. People are priced out of many zip codes but thing are affordable, esp. if you are indifferent to schools (and we have a thriving magnet / charter school environment, so you an have choices that are no-cost to you).

            2. Yes, I’m in the SF Bay Area. We haven’t built enough for years and it’s been terrible for our region. Yet, there are so many people in my city (who have time to go to city council meetings) who think they can go back to their idealized version of this area from 50 years ago if they just oppose new housing, public transport improvements, bike lane improvements, and new offices.

            3. Plenty of NIMBYs in the SEUS. I’ve watched the service class getting priced out of my zip code; it’s really not the same to bus in “the help” and ask people who work at, e.g. restaurants and hospitals to juggle often volatile schedules with long commutes.

            4. SF is just unsustainable. It has normalized everything that isn’t normal anywhere else.

   9. My parents are now 9.9 percenters, but I’m not sure if they fell in that bracket when I was growing up – were probably below. For elementary school, I went to the local public school that had a gifted program where I was a racial minority as a white student. For high school, instead of going to the magnet public school that was really good, I “rebelled” by insisting on going to a mediocre private Catholic high school, which was only about $4k in tuition a year and which I got a scholarship to based on standardized test scores. I ended up being a big fish in a small pond and did really well in high school, and went to an Ivy League college. Not only did no one else from my high school go to Ivy Leagues (basically ever), many didn’t go to college at all.

      So, my parents definitely weren’t obsessing over putting their kids in the “best” schools – which would’ve been expensive private schools in my city. On the other hand, they were both educated and had stable jobs, so my brother and I had good examples.

      I definitely benefited from the racial diversity of my schools and the lack of a success-at-all-costs atmosphere. Things were a lot more “chill.” That also meant that I had to take more initiative and that I felt more responsible for my own future. Even though I’ll be in a financial position to send any future kids I have to fancy schools, I am strongly inclined not to. For one, the amount that good private schools cost these days boggles my mind, and I’m per se against spending that much before college. For two, I don’t see it as a zero sum proposition to send your kids to a school where their classmates are less advantaged. Having been in that situation myself, I think there are benefits for the kid in being in a socioeconomically diverse group that get overlooked sometimes in these conversations.

      1. I may be a 9.9%er who comes from rural poverty and a State U education. I send my kids to a good but not great public school where most of my co-workers send their kids to private school. If they ever want to succeed in life, it will be from showing up and doing good work, not from getting the best education, the best opportunities, etc. It is making the best of what you have and reading independently a lot and being facile with numbers. I want them to go to State U (or will pay for the same if they choose something else). I want them to be competent adults who enjoy life. IMO, people with “the best” often have unreasonable expectations about many things in life (like summer interns who insist on only doing meaningful work).

         1. So you’re holding them back to lower their expectations? Good luck with that.

            1. No, I think my fortune is not likely to be sticky past my lifetime (I will likely outlive my $ or not pass on a significant amount to my children either by design or through making some bequests). They should enjoy what they can do for themselves and understand a lot of what they do in this world will be (rightly or wrongly) based on their acts. Nothing special will get handed to them (except for exposure to various things and lots of books) but they start with enough advantages that they should be fine (and if they aren’t, then probably no one else will be, either).

            2. I think the poster’s point is that a constructive amount of hardship or struggle is good during childhood for building character. If that is news to you, well… good luck to you. You might consider the backgrounds of our current and immediately former president if you want real-world examples.

               Remember that we’re talking about sending kids to decent schools in the United States. The idea that this is “holding them back” is frankly ridiculous. You’re talking as if the choice is not to send them to school at all.

            3. To Anonymous at 4:42– you are deliberately misinterpreting what she said. Not sure why sending kids to a reasonably priced school and instilling a work ethic is “holding them back.” It’s almost like there’s more than one way to raise a successful child, and it’s almost like there can be downsides to giving your child “the best” of everything. Almost.

         2. I’m Anonymous from 4:31 pm… I agree 100% with all this.

            This is again why I think there’s a false dichotomy in the premise here. Sending your kids to decent public schools as opposed to the best schools you can afford may well be the better thing for your kids, setting aside what’s better for society.

   10. I come from middle-class parents who fell on hard economic times when I was in high school and had zero clue about things like networking, career planning, and the value of a degree from a highly ranked college. I went to flagship state U because I couldn’t even afford a plane ticket to visit any of the private colleges that were courting me based on SAT scores. Nobody told me that I needed to take courses and get internships that would prepare me for an actual career, or that I needed to start looking for a job in September of my senior year and not January. I managed to make it into the 9.9 percent and am absolutely not going to deny my daughter the benefits of what I’ve learned about what is necessary to get ahead. We are encouraging our daughter to plan for a career and to take advantage of every opportunity that we can afford. We plan for her to take a few supplemental summer courses to make up for some instructional weaknesses at her school, and we’ll encourage her to study for the SATs on her own, but I am not shelling out thousands of dollars for an SAT whisperer or a private college counselor.

       We did choose to live in a (sadly un-diverse) suburb with decent public schools instead of the city with failing public schools. Our family’s contribution to reducing inequality is my poorly paid public-interest career. I don’t think my kid, or any kid, should have to go to a terrible school as a sacrificial lamb just to prove a point. Families who don’t have the means to move out of the city are taking other measures to get their kids out of the city schools, such as putting them in charter schools, and those families are praised for doing the best they can for their kids. Why do we condemn middle-class parents for doing the same?

       1. You’ve got a point — PG County MD seems to be full of folks who could only afford to flee that far but still wanted to be out of the next-door DC neighborhoods and the associated schools. It’s not just white people.

   11. I just want to say that I come from a rural town. A lot of people had a bit more money there, yes, but our school didn’t have the best of everything because some in town didn’t. My parents went to community college, had one kid, a blue collar life, and I didn’t have any problem doing anything any rich kid anywhere had done. My parents are in their late 60s and have no health issues and are on no medications. Yet, when I graduated college, people thought that I grew up in a trailer park not ever learning how to read. People, it’s not as complicated as you think.

       All it takes is good working class jobs, which often leads to married parents who can provide for their children, good family values/work ethic, eating your veggies and moving your body a bit, etc. And yes, birth control. Family planning. No one is entitled or required to have more kids than you can handle.

6. I think a bag this color would look great with dark blue or white denim. Am I missing something?

   1. Totally. Depends on how you style it.

   2. It can depend on the rinse. Some dark blues have gray undertones, and bright blues make them look dingy, that kind of thing. But with properly indigo jeans I think it would look really lovely!

7. Thanks to whoever recently recommended the ON ponte pencil skirt – I got it in black, am wearing it today; it’s super-comfortable and looks great.

   I also bought, in black, the ON ponte dress that Kat posted several weeks ago (in the striped version). I agree with another commenter, it’s a nice weight, not cheap looking, and very comfortable; I wore it last week for a long day at a conference and it was great. (FYI for those with bustier figures, I went up one size for the dress as compared to the skirt, which is my usual MO, but was not what one reviewer on the site recommended.) Now I’m thinking about the other colors, it was a great pick. Unfortunately, it’s apparently not available in stores, but the skirt is.

   1. What’s ON?

      1. Old Navy

      2. Old Navy?

   2. Yes, Old Navy.

8. We have been TTC for over 2 years. Now we are seeing a Reproductive Endocrinologist and getting all of the tests done. I know that I want to be a mom, but everything about ART, being pregnant and giving birth sounds unpleasant. We don’t have the budget for surrogacy, so either I get pregnant or we adopt. I feel like we are doing all of tbe things that a couple who wants to have biological kids should do, but passing our genes on to our kids is not that important to us. DH and I talked about this a bit, and if we did adopt, we would adopt a child from the country my family is from. I understand some of the challenges with adoption, not to mention adopting overseas, but right now it seems like the easier option. Would I regret not trying harder to have biological kids? I know that is a question only I can answer. Feeling conflicted, could use some advice from friendly internet strangers.

   1. I had to use IVF for genetic reasons, and it was miserable but temporary and worked. Giving birth for me was a painless walk in the park (I know I am way to one end of the spectrum on this). I really wanted bio kids but was open to exploring adoption down the road. Now, with two bio kids, I enjoy the things in them that I can easily connect to my husband or myself, but I feel very strongly that the bio component doesn’t matter much and this feeling has surprised me.

   2. I know a couple who has children from abandoned embryos that were donated and then implanted.

      1. Embryo adoption is a really great solution to issues like this. It’s a middle ground between grueling rounds of IVF (physically tough, very expensive and no guarantees at all) and adoption, which is getting tougher and tougher to accomplish. My understanding is that doing a cycle with frozen embryos is way less taxing and expensive than a fresh IVF cycle. There are several agencies now that will match a couple wanting to adopt embryos with a couple who has embryos they no longer want to store.

   3. We began to consider adoption at one point and I was just not comfortable with it. I had tutored a child adopted from overseas who had attachment disorder and it was absolutely horrible. I cannot even imagine the pain for that child, those parents, and the entire family. To reduce that risk, you need to bring the child home when she is extremely young, and that’s difficult to do from overseas. Domestic adoptions were also unappealing because I would only have been comfortable with a closed adoption, and those are discouraged in the U.S.

   4. The entire process is so frustrating, friend, so I feel your pain. Truly. But you should consider giving it a bit more time since you are not even sure yet as to what the issue might be. Anecdata – we tried for 4 years and nothing. Turns out I have have PCOS and was not ovulating regularly. Had one small procedure, two months of ovulation drugs with testing to isolate ideal time for “merging” and got pregnant on the second month. So don’t immediately picture IVF when there are lots of other fertility treatments to try.

      As for the biological input, only you can know how you feel. In contrast to the poster above, and as someone who considered adoption, I know that looking at my husband and son together and knowing that we made him out of us is deeply meaningful to me.

      No matter which path you choose, best of luck.

   5. I didn’t have to go through IVF and I know that can be very tough. But as someone who really wanted to adopt because of fears about pregnancy/birth and mostly had bio kids because my husband wanted them, I was very pleasantly surprised by pregnancy and birth. I had no morning sickness, fatigue or pain during pregnancy. My main symptoms were mild heartburn and slight shortness of breath. I got an epidural and delivery and recovery were not nearly as bad as I expected. My body has bounced back relatively quickly. Like the poster above, I love seeing mini-mes of me and my husband running around and am very glad I had bio kids. But I also think I would have had a fulfilling life with adoptive kids or even no kids. I think it’s hard to miss what you’ve never had and I don’t think I would have been sad if I’d chosen one of the other paths.

   6. I think you know this already but adopting is not always the easier option. I sought out a fertility doctor and found out I had uterine fibroids and got pregnant about 6 months later. Some friends have been trying to adopt for about 10 years.

   7. I just completed my first (sadly unsuccessful) round of IVF and it was way easier than I expected. Don’t expect all doom and gloom.

   8. I have no answers; I sympathize with the conflicting feelings you are having. I personally decided I wasn’t willing to use medicine and technology to make my body do this. I have some health issues, and I feel like maybe my body knows what it can and can’t handle? I have several internationally-adopted friends who have good relationships with their adopted families and their countries of origin, so it’s easy for me to see this option in a positive light (and I know this isn’t always how things go, but I do think that having a connection to the country of origin can make a difference).

   9. I was devastated when I first suspected fertility problems and that we might have to do IVF, but it was not nearly as bad as anticipated (physically; emotionally it was pretty rough). After multiple rounds of IVF I am now 19 weeks pregnant, and feeling the baby kick is such a joy already. I am so glad we kept going with the treatment.
      That being said, I know that if we adopted a kiddo I’d love him/her so much also. But, as others have said, adoption is usually even more expensive, time consuming, and uncertain than fertility treatments, which is why we opted to keep going this route.

   10. Please try Flo Living. I have PCOS and had periods twice a year before I tried this program. She knows her stuff. They have a program just for those specifically trying to get pregnant who might need more help. I tell everyone about this because all women deserve to know all of their options.

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