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Bloomingdale's has some great sales going on (including tons of dresses!) but for today's coffee break I'm liking this scarf.
First, I did NOT know that Diane von Furstenberg's patterns came in scarves, as well, and this excites me quite a bit. I'm lusting after one myself, but can't help think that this would make a great gift for a favorite woman in your life.
It was $198 but is now $103.95 at Bloomingdale's. DIANE von FURSTENBERG “Meghan” Scarf
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
anonymiss
I’ve been thinking about this since Kat posted that red sweater and a discussion of what to wear on a first date ensued after a poster said that most men care about whether or not you’re fat: at what point do you think a woman is “fat” for purposes of it being notable, particularly to men on dates? FWIW, I feel like I’ve spent my entire college + law school career feeling like being fat means one isn’t entitled to date, but I’m wondering at what size that starts to kick in such that weight would be an instant turn-off? Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
Circe
Yes. It’s all about taste, like how you have your own taste in potential mates. Some people prefer fat. Some people prefer skinny. Some people prefer somewhere in between. There is no universal rule. Date, for heavenssakes.
Research, Not Law
This. I have a lot a male friends who overshare. There’s a wide variety in what individual men prefer.
It may sound like an after school special, but it’s true: You should be comfortable with you first, then find a partner who is too.
Ellen
I agree. I am not to skinny, and this time of year have to wear alot of clothing to stay warm.
So OF COURSE I look hefteier then I want to be, but the guys are NOT exactly SIX PACK JOES when they take there shirt’s off.
So just be yourselfs and don’t worry. Wait before sex, and By the time you decide to have sex, you should not worry what you look like b/c he is also a mess and very anxious to have sex with anything at all.
In search of Bunkster's Bark
This is enuff to make me think about feeding ELLEN again.
Monday
SIX PACK JOES. This is a fabulous riff on Sarah Palin.
Kelly
I don’t think anyone is too fat to be entitled to date (well maybe this guy from mexico i saw on tv once that was like 1000 pounds), but I mean overweight people who live normal lives (e.g. go to work, can physically get out of their house). It’s just a matter of finding someone who finds you attractive. People generally date people of similar build/level of attractiveness as them, but not always. FWIW my overweight female cousin is only attracted to really skinny guys and she’s rarely single, and it’s not like the guy’s are ugly skinny losers either. I guess it’s more a matter of confidence, personality and mutual interests.
Besides I a guy can find a skinny girl totally unattractive and not girlfriend material for a plethora of reasons not at all related to weight!
Kate
That guy’s actually got married!!!
And, I don’t think anyone is too fat to date. It’s a matter of confidence. My ex-bf was a large man but he didn’t let that stop him from hitting on me and I didn’t let that stop me from falling in love with him! If someone’s asks you on a date or agrees to go on one when you ask, you can assume they find you attractive. Blind dates are another story… but I wouldn’t let it dissuade you from trying. Just have a relative representative picture up and make the same assumptions as above ;)
Em
I know the feeling, but I find it helpful sometimes to go to a public place like a shopping mall (preferably out in the suburbs) and look around at the happy couples. PLENTY of them are fat, and trust me, they didn’t all get that way before they got married. Nobody is too fat to date.
Anonymous
As true as that is, it really doesn’t help much when you’ve been single for nearly a decade and can’t seem to get a date regardless of the fact that you are completely confident in everything else about your life except for your weight.
a
I am very thin, very single, and very lonely. It’s not your weight.
Anon
I don’t understand what you mean by being fat means one isn’t “entitled” to date. Fat or not, everyone is “entitled” to date. Whether or not one’s size is a turnoff is an entirely different matter.
Anonymous
Or rather, no one is entitled to date. Be ready to woo and do, or be ready to be wooed.
Lyssa
Obviously, no one’s not entitled to date. But, to answer the question that I think that you’re getting at (which I’m understanding to be: “at what point would the average man consider a woman “fat” and unattractive because of it?”) and the answer to that is actually well studied – it has to do with whether or not she has a defined waist. People who study this sort of thing have found it pretty clear that men are hard-wired across cultures to be attracted to an ideal of a .8 waist to hip ratio, which apparently signals fertility. So, it’s less about size and more about shape, really.
I’ll add my own personal, less scientific observations, though, that men are also usually turned off by explicit displays of saggy, skin – i.e., a woman who is wearing jeans too tight that cause a major muffin top, or arms that flap, sagging breasts that blend into the tummy. But most of that’s more about dressing appropriately.
(Of course, it does vary by taste, this is a broad generalization.)
Seconded
This.
Anon
There is a whole book about this based on a bunch of anthropological studies called “The Evolution of Desire.” Very interesting read!
Anon
This is based entirely on Wikipedia, but I think 0.8 is too high for the “ideal.” Wiki says that above 0.8 for women is considered to be entering the danger zone health-wise, and 0.7 is considered ideal.
Kelly
yeah I always hear 0.7 is ideal.
Lyssa
I might have mis-remembered the number (I know I measured myself and was too “high” (although I’m thin), so maybe .8 was my number?) But I remember the point of “defined waist = yay” very well.
Anon for this
I would be sure to get your self-esteem to a good place before you make any major commitments or even start dating. My cousin married the first guy who asked because she didn’t feel like she could do any better due to being overweight. This couldn’t have been more false. She then had to go through a wrenching divorce once she realized that she deserved more than someone who treated her as poorly as he did.
anonny
This.
Blonde Lawyer
I have a friend from high school who was always very large. I am really bad at guessing people’s weights so I really don’t want to but I’d say she had to be at least 250+. Our lives went two different places and she ended up running a $ex toy/p0rn shop. I couldn’t make this up if I tried. When I was still on facebook she kept a running commentary of the things she encountered at work that she could make millions on if she wrote a book.
The thing that surprised her the most is the number of average attractive guys that came in and bought BBW p0rn. For those not in the know, that is “big beautiful woman.” If you look on Craig’s List’s casual encounters, there are tons of men looking to fulfill their fantasies with a bbw. She also got asked out a TON working there by guys that would be way too embarrassed to talk to her if they saw her in a bar while they were there with their friends.
The takeaway – our society has a hang up about “fat.” Lots of guys think it’s hot. Lots of guys think it is so hot, there is a seedy underbelly in the $ex business just to cater to it. Her self esteem is through the roof now. No one needs a man or woman to find them “hot” to feel good about themselves but it sure does help when society tells you every day you don’t fit “the standard.” At least, that’s how she explained it (reports the tall, thin, blonde who could never imagine what she went through in high school.)
Monday
“She also got asked out a TON working there by guys that would be way too embarrassed to talk to her if they saw her in a bar while they were there with their friends.”
This is the dynamic that troubles me–and I’ve seen evidence of it as well. Wouldn’t the ideal be that she gets asked out in any context, by guys who see no reason to be embarrassed? After all, what’s there to be embarrassed about? If you’re interested in her, sir, go to it. Your friends are entitled to their own tastes, and you to yours.
Size 4
My husband constantly tells me that more guys prefer girls with some meat on their bones to super-thin girls. My attempt to translate this from boy speak would be: more guys prefer sizes 8-14 (Marilyn Monroe!) than 00-2. So while I’m not sure where exactly most men would draw the line as “fat,” I feel fairly confident that it’s not where most women would draw it.
Alaina
“more guys prefer sizes 8-14 (Marilyn Monroe!) than 00-2.”
Your husband sounds great, but this sentiment is a little unfair to those of us who wear smaller sizes (and like larger women, that’s just the way we’re built). Better (and more) accurate to say that different men are attracted to different body types, just as women are.
Alaina
Ah, I see now that you prefaced your comment by mentioning you’re a size 4. Still, plenty of men prefer slim women, curvy women and everything in between.
mamabear
Alaina, I don’t see how her comment is less fair to women below size 8 than it is to women above size 14.
Anon
I took it that way too as a small person who’s had health trouble trying to keep weight on in past. It is common actually for people to be sensitive (or at least think they should be) to overweight issues, but insult low-weight people assuming it is always a choice. It isn’t nice when people say things to you like “eat would you!” “you are such a stick” “sleeping with skinny girls must be like sleeping with a grasshopper!” etc. I have heard things like this to my face a million times over the years. I let it roll, as I know I’m lucky in many ways and it isn’t worth dwelling on, but it is common and not cool. The comment above basically said “men don’t like you little ones”- the clarification is a much more tolerant statement and more reflective of reality- there are all kinds.
anon
@11:10 anon, I don’t know anyone over 22 who actually eats a reasonable amount and is still super skinny. Granted, I’m insanely jealous of your body type and it’s my preferred aesthetic. But super skinny people I know that come to mind are one woman I know who claims to have a thyroid problem, yet all I ever see her eat is salad, chicken and fish. She might eat half a piece of bread w/o butter. Another is a woman who claims “her metabolism is sooo fast!!!!”. yeah right, i’ve spend days on end with her, she never consumes over 1200 calories in a day. Every thin person I know just has good self control and can ignore the fact that they’re hungry. they also claim they’re hungry all the time, even though they’ve been up for 7 hours, running around like a nut and have only consumed 100 calories.
I’m not saying this to be spiteful, I’m fairly thin myself (BMI of 20.4, size 2) but I watch what I eat and exercise.
Also, frame size is a huge factor. Someone may have tiny build and be size 2 but be “fat”, and someone could be a size 8 but you can see their hip bones and they have very little body fat.
Anon
to anon 11:27- you are unaware then. most people don’t believe you- trust me, i learned more than a decade ago never to talk about this with friends or anyone, really given the sensitivities. but my whole family is this way. my brothers are in the military and have to eat mega shakes and things to keep weight on. the trouble is when we get ill. whenever i get the flu, travel abroad, etc. i lose the weight i can keep on with effort (103 lbs 5″3) and shrink sometimes down to low-90’s which is scary. it then takes me months to reget the weight despite eating til i feel sick. has always been this way, it is metabolism. i understand this sounds desirable for many, but honestly, honestly it comes with downsides too. I lose potassium and sodium too much as well so have constant hydration problems which combined with other things can and have land you in the emergency room. and have implications for heart health. i hope you will read this comment as it is sad that people just assume it’s all a matter of choice on the other end.
Anon
ps i am 34 yrs old and make sure I eat over 2000 calories a day usually way more. In fact, I have posted in my cabinet the highest-calorie foods to eat- avocados, etc. and supplement with grape juice etc to get extra calories. I have been actively managing this for years with intention. I do eat frequently rather than large amounts, so have often encountered that people assume what THEY see you eat is all that you eat- it’s annoying and not usually the full story.
BT
To be fair, Marilyn Monroe’s measurements would translate today to a size 4 to 6. When she signed up with a modeling agency in 1945, she revealed her statistics as follows:
5’5″
118 lbs
36-24-34.
http://www.lovingmarilyn.com/beauty.html
Those are close to my measurements, and I never wear bigger than a 6.
ML
This. Not to be nitpicky, but I believe MM’s weight fluctuated between 115 and 135 pounds throughout her life. At her heaviest she would have been slimmer than the average American woman today. Sizes change.
Kelly
my first attempt got ereased!
I absolutely cannot stand this MM was a size 8 or size 14 that people love to declare. She was effing tiny. Her chest may be be a 6 in today’s world, but her waist and hips would be a 0 or 2. But for some recent weight gain, I was always 35-27-36, which made me a size 2, but I could barely squeeze into my mom’s old 6s, so in the 50s I’d probably be an 8 or so too.
People who see her clothes in real life are shocked at how small she was. Her waist measurement that’s reported was probably taken with a corset on. I heard at her heaviest she was 140, but at 5’5″ that’s not fat at all.
Alanna of Trebond
This is really funny, because conversations on SO many blogs about weight devolve into — Marilyn Monroe was size 8! (But wait, sizes were different then! They used to make clothes out of bags and now Jcrew makes clothes and a size 8 then is a size 00 now!!). So, let’s leave dear Marilyn out of it. She is neither here nor there.
I think one reason that responses to these posts may say things like “more guys prefer sizes [higher] than [lower]” is because women of higher sizes are more likely to feel that they are considered less attractive by the population, whereas the women of lower sizes are considered to be the paragon of beauty by magazines and other media. So I am going to say that it is perfectly fine to say things like that, because it helps counteract the hurtful notions spread elsewhere. (And, in my opinion, completely different from comments that say “omg that model is so skinny, she must be sick, or she needs to eat a sandwich…”).
Secondly, as for the OP, of COURSE you are entitled to date. You can do whatever you want to do. But as other comments have noted, you dating will make very little difference if you are not comfortable with your body. If you are uncomfortable about something, change your life to “fix” whatever that is, or examine your psychology to make yourself comfortable with it. After that, go date! Or got meet people.
Janie
Alanna is right re: Marilyn.
Since the 50s or so, “ready to wear” clothing sizes have changed because of vanity sizing but sewing pattern sized have remained the same because they come attached to a chart of measurements – you can’t trick anyone that way.
From my own personal experience buying and sewing with vintage patterns, a pattern size 8 is closest to today’s ready-to-wear size 00 or 0, depending on the store, a 10 is a 0-2, and so on.
Anona
I am a size 2 and I only like to date bigger guys. So I would imagine that there are guys that are the same way. Ergo, no size is too big. Also, I am not ashamed to say that I dated a guy who is a pretty plump guy and he broke up with me for a girl who is about a size 16.
Also, my good friend (who also just got bypass surgery) married her boyfriend of 2 years. She was over 400 and is now about 225 and counting.
Anyways I would not count yourself out. The point is, if you are unhappy with yourself it is never a good time to start dating. But if you are just unhappy with your body, um that’s 90% of women of all sizes.
Diana Barry
When I was dating, I wasn’t attracted to guys who were out of shape. I was not super-skinny – size 8 – but I worked out a lot, was confident about my body, and liked guys who worked out and looked it.
A couple of years later, I had a lot of body dysmorphia and disordered eating when I first started working, but luckily (1) that was after I had met my husband, AND (2) he put up with it. (After we had our first kid I apologized to him for being so crazy about my body for a long time.) It’s not attractive (no matter how skinny or heavy you are) to moan about how you look all the time.
IV
Different men prefer differently built women. I really, truly think that one’s weight has nothing to do with being “beautiful.”
So, absolutely not, weight is not an instant turn-off.
A good friend of mine had a boyfriend who somewhat regularly expressed his preference for larger women, but my friend was not comfortable with this herself. (This is symptomatic of other problems, too.) I*know* that my boyfriend is happy that I ahve recently gained some 5-6 pounds (a lot on the short me), but I also *know* that he would never tell me that and that he will be “supportive” when (ahm, I said *when*) I lose them again.
In summary, I think that attraction is just that, personal attraction, entirely separated from the number on the scale.
Unsub
I think that men, like women, are attracted to confident, happy people. As everyone has said, feel attractive and you will attract. When I am working out and eating well, I feel great no matter how much I weigh. I do that for me, but my husband (and other men) always notices.
Need a New Handbag
Pardon the immediate threadjack, but I’ve decided to buy a new handbag and I have no idea where to start. Want a solidly constructed leather bag that I can rely on for an every day bag (although it does not need to double as a brief case or tote). Not really married to a particular color or style, and as far as price point, I’d like to keep it under $1000. Just hoping to get some inspiration, so I’d love for you to recommend a bag that’s served you well. Thanks!
SF Bay Associate
Me too, though I want something structured. I’m looking forward to hearing responses.
CN
With that kind of budget I’d look at bags by Mulberry or Chloe.
CN
http://www.mulberry.com/#/storefront/c6276/6312/moreviews/
Kate
For inspiration, I’d head to Saks or NeimanMarcus . com and browse under handbags. Once you narrow it down, you can take it from there.
anonymous
I’ll post the link below, but the bag I would love to have if it was in the budget is the Longchamps Roseau Double Strap Shoulderbag. The photo doesn’t quite do it justice. It is a beautiful leather that gives it a classic look that I don’t think would ever go out of style.
anonymous
http://www1.bloomingdales.com/shop/product/longchamp-roseau-double-strap-shoulder-bag?ID=515843&PseudoCat=se-xx-xx-xx.esn_results
Need a New Handbag
That’a a gorgeous bag!
politico
I’ve had the tote version (with the shorter straps) for years and adore it. Beautiful leather, held up well, price wasn’t completely insane and I get a lot of compliments on it.
politico
similar to this:
http://www1.bloomingdales.com/shop/product/longchamp-womens-roseau-tote?ID=132027&CategoryID=23559#fn=spp%3D36%26ppp%3D96%26sp%3D1%26rid%3D52
Lawyer Bird
My Cole Haan Prudence hobo has been a-maz-ing as my everyday bag for several years now. I don’t know if they still make the Prudence line, but Cole Haan bags are lovely and durable, and have tons of highly functional pockets. Plus you could keep it under $500 if you went with Cole Haan.
I can only dream of having a $1000 price point for bags, but I love the look of Mulberry satchels, and if $1000 in purse money fell into my lap that’s what I’d get.
Kate
Use code SNOWFLAKE for am extra 20% off at Bloomingdales. For those that like the scarf, that is…
Sigh
Ladies, help! I have recently acquired a sister-in-law, after having had only brothers growing up. My younger brother got married this summer, and was the first of us to get married. Let me start off by saying that we really do like SIL – she’s smart, sociable and cute.
But, as much as we like her (and tell her we like her), I think she’s having some trouble adjusting to the fact that our family operates differently than hers (because no two families ever run the same). She has a tendency to take offense or find a slight when none was intended. I think some of the problems stems from having a dad that was a bit of jerk (her parents are divorced, but both in her life), a much smaller family (nuclear and extended), and being on the young side (just finished her undergrad and went right into her masters). And these slights end up with her being mad and taking it out on my brother, which tends to eat away at the good feelings we are predisposed to have towards her.
Now, I’ve got my method for dealing with her (including her in some – but not all – things I do, trying to give her a perspective on how our family works, reassurance that we do in fact like her, while also not changing the way I do things just so I don’t accidentally offend her) and I’m comfortable with that. The problem is that she’s majorly stressing my mom out. My mom wants SIL to know that she is part of the family, but it seems like SIL still finds reasons to feel slighted, which ends up piling on my brother, who in turn goes to Mom. Any thoughts, advice, war stories?
AnonInfinity
I know it’s really hard and you can’t control your mom, but the first thing that jumped out at me is that all sibs and mom should stop listening to your brother when he wants to talk about wife “taking things out on him.” Unless he is literally being abused or there is some sort of divorce/affair situation, this type of chatter can really hurt a relationship with the new in-law.
Shortly after my husband and I were married, I wanted to complain to my mom about him. She stopped me mid-sentence and told me that I can say those things to my friends, but that, as my mother, she will always protect ME and unless there’s a real reason for her to dislike him, she does not want to know about our squabbles.
As far as the other stuff, maybe you could try taking her out with just you and mom for a lunch or shopping or something equally fun. More time together to really get to know you guys could bring you all closer.
Amy H.
I agree with all of this!
Research, Not Law
What’s your brother doing to help? I personally feel like an odd duck in my husband’s family (who are all very nice to me) and him telling me over and over that they really do like me makes a world of difference. I’m ashamed to admit that I need to hear it before and after every family gathering.
Another thing that helped is that they would make lighthearted jokes about the quirks of their family (important note: not jokes about *my* family quirks, although they are plentiful). It made me feel at ease. We do the same for my brother’s wife, who I’m confident is very aware of our quirks, and it seems to help.
They also made a point to ask me about my life and remember it. I felt uncomfortable chiming in on their conversations because I don’t have much to contribute. We simply don’t have much in common. I am 11 years younger than my husband, who is the youngest in his family. I have a university/urban set of skills and interests, whereas they have a rural/industrial set. So it was really comforting to have someone ask me about something I could talk about. It meant that our conversation topics were rather limited at first, but they’ve expanded over the years as we’ve learned about each other. FYI, ask in one-on-one conversations or small groups; don’t pin her with a question at a big family table. “How are your parents doing?” is an easy start. It’s hard to interpret that as judgmental, etc.
I know that I personally didn’t feel entirely comfortable until I started to have shared experiences with DH’s family, namely having kids. When I had kids, we had something to talk about. And they were a huge support for me, as my siblings hadn’t had children yet.
It sounds to me like you’re doing well with SIL. She’ll relax with time. I’d work on diffusing the brother/mom situation. I think you’d have a bigger impact since you can be more direct with them, and SIL may start to feel more comfortable if her husband and MIL aren’t being awkward.
R in Boston
I’ve had the opposite reaction to hearing over and over that my husband’s family likes me. Every time I heard it convinced me more that it was not said sincerely. We have nothing in common (other than liking my husband) and repeated attempts to do more activities together/get to know each other over the last decade haven’t improved matters. We don’t dislike each other, we just don’t like each other. I have been fine with this for a long time, my husband’s family is just coming around to it, and now we are all happier. You don’t have to be close with your in-laws – you just have to acknowledge and respect when something is important to them and do your best to be cordial.
My mother-in-law is, however, the best birth control on the planet. My desire to keep my children far away from her influence is strong enough that I just may never have children. Nice? Certainly. Crazy? Definitely.
Sigh
Brother is trying to explain how the family work – but I get the sense that despite that, she doesn’t really believe him? I’ve tried to explain the family dynamic some – some of it comes down to it being boy-dominated (she only has sisters, I have 3 brothers) and some of it comes from us being a lot quieter/introvert and her more extroverted. There’s one brother that doesn’t come to a lot of stuff, and she took that personally for a while (B1 doesn’t like me!), when its really just how he is.
I really do think time will do a lot – its just hard to get through the now. As for the Brother/Mom conversations – I think he’s looking for guidance on what to do in certain situations, and doesn’t know who else to talk to. I know mom is supportive of their relationship and wants to help him as much as possible without overstepping bounds – but I agree that a lot of it is going to be Brother sticking up for himself and his family, which will be a delicate balance, since SIL will take that as a slap to her.
Mom’s main stress is that she’s going to lose Brother at the holidays because SIL is only going to be comfortable with her side. (Fwiw, the spent Thanksgiving this year with her side, and were planning to spend Christmas with us, in the same city that they live in). And maybe its a matter of letting him go for a few years, so SIL can get comfortable enough with us.
Anonymous
My husband’s family doesn’t think my family exists. They want Thanksgiving every years, Christmas Eve, Christmas morning, and Christmas dinner. Don’t pretend you care about me if you act like a baby because we won’t come to the Christmas Even party when we are going to your house the next day. All that “we want to spend time with you” is just control freak bunk.
Always a NYer
What exactly is making her feel slighted? Is it friendly teasing taken the wrong way or sarcasm she doesn’t understand? Maybe she is too sensitive but a (and I know this sounds cheesy) family meeting to talk it all through might really help.
SIL needs to understand this is how you all behave and that none of it is done with the intention to hurt her feelings. While your brother is probably feeling pressure from his new wife, he also should be defending his family as well as reassuring her that it’s all done with a good heart and she should laugh it off.
Either way, I’d take your SIL over my aunt any day. You want to hear horror story, not only does she treat us (meaning her husband’s, my uncle, parents, sister, and niece) like the hired help, she treats my uncle like a second-class citizen. Auntie Dearest insisted he get a vasectomy, to which he agreed, and then wouldn’t drive him to his doctor appointment in the city. My uncle needed to take public transport home. As if that weren’t bad enough, he was then the one who had to pick up the kids from their after-school sports and cook dinner. Did I mention Auntie’s a SAHM who hasn’t worked in 20+ years that despises cooking and cleaning?
anon
I second the previous comment that your brother should not be complaining to his mother about his new wife! That will definitely undermine mom’s relationship with SIL, and if SIL finds out about it, I imagine she’ll feel even more insecure about her relationship with the family.
Sigh
Its not so much complaining (well, some of it is), but its looking for guidance on how to proceed. I would say that I’ve gotten some good insights on people (and myself) from my mom. I totally agree that its a tough balance – but aren’t you supposed to be able to go to your parents for advice?
Sigh
Some of it is brotherly teasing – which I’ve dealt with all my life, but she’s never had (she only has a younger sister). The more baffling stuff is her asking what I got from my (then) boyfriend for Christmas, and then complaining to my brother that I was bragging (it was a nice bracelet), for which I had to apologize for the following Easter – because she was still upset by it. Or the fact that I didn’t invite her to play on a co-ed sports team that my friend put together – and that since we/I didn’t invite her to do things, that meant we didn’t like her.
I think she’s somehow peeved with my mom because she didn’t get “anything” last year, when she actually got 2 or 3 things, including a cat bed my mother made for SIL’s new kitten. This is one of those disconnects, I think – her family tends to do really big ticket items for Christmas (she got an SLR camera from her dad, in addition to other things), where as my parents tend to try for thoughtful, practical things that we might not otherwise buy for ourselves.
Anon
she sounds weird- the bracelet and sports team- please. get over yourself or don’t share it out loud, SIL. My family doesn’t do big gifts either, I tell people that up front. My husband is Jewish so there was no conflict there, heh!
TCFKAG
I had the opposite problem when I first started do Christmas with my now-husband’s family. They go WAY overboard at Christmas (plus there are more than them) so I find Christmas with them exhausting and overwhelming. I still do actually. I find it helps to occasionally absent myself from the festivities to go lie down.
Sometimes a girl just needs some quiet! :-)
Anon
LOL
same here
Our new SIL has had some major issues with my mom, and both my sister and I have been playing referee for the past 6 months or so. I’ve found it helpful to pull my brother aside some too. We have a nice enough relationship that he’ll take the “help” from my sister and I much better than from my mom. The biggest issue is a lack of communication, and so it helps that my sister and I are willing to be the go-between a little bit. I explained to my brother that a 10 minute call once per month, or one email per month with an update would do wonders to improve the relationship. Maybe there’s one or two action steps that you can impart to her or your brother? It helped for us to lower my mom’s expectations a little, so that each communication was appreciated. Maybe your SIL has one or two things that if done, would help.
On the other hand, we’ve also come to realize that SIL will probably never “fit” the way the rest of us do, and that’s ok. So, sometimes we include her, and sometimes we don’t. Sometimes we worry about how she feels, but recently, we’re kind of leaving it up to her, as we’ve discussed it with my brother and we’ve taken steps to mitigate the situation.
Anonymous
Has it occurred to you that she might just be sensitive, and legitimately feels insulted?
Hmm
I’m not sure it’s fair to say that if someone is sensitive, they legitimately feel insulted when they perceive a remark to be insulting. I’m sensitive, and genuinely insulted when people say things that I perceive to be insulting. It’s not legitimate, though. Being aware of my sensitive nature, I have to back off and take things that people say with a grain of salt. My being sensitive is on *me.* People should not be required to walk on eggshells around me just because I’m sensitive.
Anon
i like your self-awareness!
Anon
impressed by your self-awareness! as someone kind of brash- used to east coast ways, live in pacific northwest- dealing with the super sensitive can be tiring for me. i try to be aware/act accordingly but sometimes i just want to say buck up/get over it/etc.
Sigh
And how much leeway should she be getting? We like her and do our best to treat her like a person that we like – but its like she keeps trying to looks at us through her view of how life is supposed to be, instead of trying to understand how our family operates – and that we’ll adapt to include and support her. There’s been an underlying current of “it’s all about me” in her complaints that’s a little off-putting.
Anonymous
It seems that you and your family are looking at her through your own view of how life is supposed to be though too. Is there a way to meet her halfway?
MelD
Birchbox members- has anyone gotten a box this month? It looks like there is a section on the website for a December box, but I haven’t gotten anything indicating it was sent.
EC MD
I got the message that my BirchBox was on it’s way, but have not actually received it.
L
Received mine a few days ago. Nothing memorable.
Bunkster
I got mine a few days ago. It’s only my second box, but I liked it better than the first.
MelD
Thanks. It seems like they just forgot to send me a box for some reason.
sparky
Ladies, I have an etiquette question: what is the proper thing to say to someone who just got divorced? Is it the kind of thing where you say you’re sorry to hear the news? For what it’s worth, this is a distant family member and I don’t know the details of the divorce at all.
Blonde Lawyer
I like to say “I hope this leads to happiness.” If the divorce is sad for her, you are hoping she is happy in the future. If the divorce is happy for her, you are just wishing her more happiness.
Another lawyer
I recently got divorced. “Good Luck,” “Best wishes for the future,” “Congratulations (but only if she wanted the divorce),” things like that… I wouldn’t say “I’m sorry” because it isn’t necessarily bad news. If she seems happy, then treat it as a positive event while acknowledging the uncertainty. If you don’t know if she’s happy about it, Good Luck is probably safe. It’s kind of like the “Happy Holidays” of the divorcing people’s world.
Anon
A recently-divorced friend told me that her favorite thing to hear was something along the lines of “I know divorce is stressful and I am sorry that you are dealing with this type of stress.”
EC MD
I think something like “this must be a difficult time for you”
Anon
what about just ‘how are you doing? anything i can do?’
cbackson
I always appreciated this, coupled with an “I’m thinking of you.”
K
Thoughts on applying for a position in which you meet all of the qualifications, except for the number of years of experience required? I have 3.5 years of experience in the industry, and it’s asking for 6-8. Based on the job description, it’s definitely a step up from what I’m currently doing but I know I could figure it out and do the job successfully. The position is a combination of two different business areas, and I have specific experience in both, which may give me a leg up. Also, both of the full-time positions I’ve held in my career have required more experience than I technically had at the time of getting the job.
However, I don’t want to submit my resume and have it end up in the trash or have my application mar any opportunities at this company that may come up in the future.
Thoughts?
Sydney Bristow
You can’t get the job if you don’t go for it. I’d submit myself and majorly play up the experiences I have that match what they are looking for. I look at years requirements more of a guideline and if I’m close, I’ll apply. The worst thing that can happen is they say no. I could be wrong, but I don’t think it would hurt you for future positions at the company. If they recognize your name out of the hundreds of applications they might receive, I think it would show more of your interest in the company than it would be harmful in some way.
Anon
agree. i have my dream job and it was a stretch this way as well. 1.5 yrs in, I got a big raise today. It’s working out amazingly. Make the case as best you can- tie it up for them (objective, summary of professional skills etc.) so you connect the dots for why you are the right fit. Think of everything you can. Network any way you can with insiders. Go for it and good luck!!!
Former MidLevel
Apply for the job. If your resume ends up in the trash, the result will be the same as if you didn’t send it.
And unless this company is highly unusual, submitting an application now should have no effect on future applications. Think about it from the perspective of the hiring partner/chair/manager: would *you* ding someone because they had, in the past, been so enthusiastic about your company that they applied even though their credentials didn’t (at least at that point) perfectly match those of your “dream” candidate?
As I’ve said before, I strongly believe that listed job “criteria” are aspirational, not iron-clad minimum requirements. By submitting an application, you are not swearing or affirming that you can check off all of the boxes in the job description.
a.
I’m so glad to hear someone say this, because I’m working on job apps right now. I have two years of experience in the requisite field, but employers seem to be looking for three to five, so for all of the apps I’ve sent in for those positions, I’ve just really been hoping it’s not a waste of my (or their) time.
On the “check off all boxes in the job description” thing–I’ve had a couple of applications where, literally, there is a list of hard skills, and you have to check “yes” or “no” to whether you have them. There have been a couple where I’ve had to check “no” for at least one thing on the list. Do you think this means my application is going into the circular file? (And, FWIW, these are not things like “Do you have this certification without which it is impossible to do this job,” it’s stuff like “Do you have two years of experience in administrative tasks.”)
Blonde Lawyer
Currently working at a job I love where the ad said 3-5 and I barely had 2 but I got it!
a.
Thanks for sharing that! Gives me a tiny shred of hope in this dismal process :)
Anon
sometimes it does matter. 2 yrs might seem too entry level for the position. you never know, if you are the right fit for other reasons, it may work out! but if there are 100+ resumes of people with more yrs experience with notches on their belt, it might be hard to compete til you get more experience. hang in there, it will happen, even though feels so hard right now! been there.
AB
Is giving a present to your boss always seen as brown-nosing?
I have a fantastic boss whom I have been working with since she came on in May and she is a great mentor and coach for me, encouraging me in turn to coach others in my group (especially as I am now in a management position). I was going to just give her a card but am now thinking about a book on mentoring, coaching, or something on storytelling and innovation, and in the card letting her know how much I have appreciated working with her. I would likely be the only person in my group to give her a gift, but am the only junior female. Any thoughts are appreciated!
DC Association
Don’t give a gift except if it is a token, like home-made cookies, or candy or some such. I manage three people and I would feel really bad if one of them gave me a gift. I don’t think any boss expects it. Also, i would say that others may see it as brown-nosing even if the boss doesn’t and you don’t want that.
Ask A manager dot org recently addressed the question of giving boss’s gifts. That is a great blog!
karenpadi
This. Bosses do not expect gifts. Ever.
Awful Lawful
This made me laugh, unfortunately. Oh how I wish that was the case at my office! The owner of our firm EXPECTS a gift for holidays, birthdays, etc. and everyone is expected to contribute. We are also expected to contribute to said owner’s daughter’s school fundraiser and we got a nasty email when only a few people contributed. Karenpadi, could you please let my boss know about this policy?
karenpadi
Then your boss is an unprofessional, narcissistic a-hole. Really, he’s not worth working for.
If I knew who your boss was, and I knew him, I would let him know. I’ve taught a few attorney-mentees that they shouldn’t be expecting gifts from paralegals and support staff even though we give them gifts. I mention to new staff when I give them gifts that their work and support throughout the year is my Christmas gift.
Aria
I’ve had two bosses in a row that I gave gifts to because it was part of the office culture (i.e., the whole team (boss, me, secretary/paralegal) would get together and exchange gifts with each other. Even the secretary/paralegal gave gifts to the boss, though of course smaller. However, I’d say do what you feel comfortable with — none of the gift ideas you listed sounded particularly lavish or expensive, so I wouldn’t think it was brown-nosing.
mamabear
I actually sent a note to my staff this year asking them nicely not to give me gifts. I felt like a jerk having to do it, but it truly makes me uncomfortable when they get me something. I like to get them each something to thank them for their work this year, but when they give me something back I wonder if my gift made them feel like they had to reciprocate.
Now that I’ve sent the note, I’m glad I did it.
AB
Thanks all, I think I will just give her a card and write something in about what I’ve learned this year. Funnily enough, we were talking later on in the day and she told me she had been mulling giving everyone something (it’s her first year as a director) but was leaning no. I’ve always just got a handshake and thanks so I agreed with her. Faux pas averted – thank goodness for corporate!
LawyrChk
I have the Lauren Ralph Lauren Bateau-neck dress that Kat linked to, and it is by far one of my work faves. It flattering, machine-washable, versatile, and it doesn’t wrinkle. Highly, highly recommended.
Anon
torn about this- would really like to make an appreciative gesture as i have amazingly wonderful bosses (not so in past) but it isn’t norm. card + chocolate maybe?
spotty anon
I’ve been on BC for 10 years. Normally I’d have a 4-5 day heavy period. For the last few months I’ve had brown spotting for a day or two, followed by a heavy period for a day or two. Does this happen to anyone else? I had precocious puberty and started getting my period at 9 so I’ve always had some period anxiety.