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And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
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- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
oil in houston
immediate TJ – I have decided to host Thanksgiving this year for a few friends, first time ever. Only 4 people will actually eat turkey though, so I’m thinking of buying it already cooked, some people mentioned the Goode’s smoked turkey, others deep-fried… anyone in Houston has a recommendation for the deep-fried version?
thanks!
Niktaw
Popeyes!
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/573067
Tried it myself and recommend highly.
mmm
There’s a Cajun place that does this . . . I think it may be the Ragin Cajun?
mmm
Or I would try Central Market.
mcmc
central market, whole foods, goode are all fine choices
JJ
Not Thanksgiving, but I’ve used Central Market catering for many parties and the food is always awesome.
Beth
I know you asked for already-cooked ideas, but you may also look into cooking a turkey breast. They are much smaller, much faster, and much easier to cook than a full turkey. Last year I threw one into the crock pot, which also opened up the oven for side dishes.
Anon in NYC
Another make-your-own suggestion: One year my husband and I had a quiet Thanksgiving and made a steamed and roasted bone-in turkey breast (google Jacques Pepin, New York Times, and steamed turkey) for the two of us. It was really good, looked like a Norman Rockwell turkey, and was very easy. We adjusted the cooking times based on the weight of the turkey breast. I don’t remember being inundated with leftovers either – and if you have 4 people who eat turkey you probably won’t have a ton of leftovers either.
Feminism
SO and I had a blow-out argument this weekend. I was the reason it blew out of proportion.
The underlying issue is that, while SO is one of the kindest, most generous, and fair people I know, he doesn’t understand feminist issues. He thinks feminists are women that are crazy, extremely leftist, and man-hating. I consider myself a feminist, and I spend a lot of time thinking and reading about women’s issues. What started the argument was a discussion about raising future children. I told him that I want our children, boys or girls, to be aware of the issues that women face in our country and all over the world—I want them to be aware of many social issues, this one included. He basically laughed and blew me off and it escalated from there.
He either doesn’t seem to understand the disparities (difference in pay, career consequences, family expectations, general stereotypes and discrimination) or realizes that they exist but doesn’t think they’re his problem. He dismisses most conversations I initiate about women’s issues. In my view, he should acknowledge something I care about a lot and be willing to discuss it with me*. I think these issues very much still exist, and therefore think it’s important to talk about them. In his view, I’m bringing up issues that he doesn’t think exist or that don’t affect him. He clearly also thinks they don’t affect me. (*A more general issue is that he’s just not the type of person to want to discuss political, cultural, or current issues, and I am).
I see this as something that will take ongoing, rational conversation to solve. This is not a daily or even monthly issue, but I did think it would start an interesting discussion here. Has anyone else had this disparity in their current or past relationships? Am I just an extreme feminist with unreasonable expectations?
AnonLawMom
You probably aren’t going to turn him into someone who likes to discuss these topics, let alone teach future kids about them. But I do think it is reasonable to expect him not to belittle your well thought out opinions or blow you off when something is important to you. If he is laughing at you and dismissing you when you are talking about something that you think is very important, there’s a serious issue. But seriously consider what he was laughing about – your real concerns or your approach to the conversation. We on the interwebs can’t help you with that because we weren’t there.
JJ
Agreed. And I would consider how, on a macro basis, your husband treats women. He may hate talking about it and he may think he disagrees with what you’re saying (or how you’re saying it), but how does your husband treat women he works with? Works for? Other women in his life? Maybe it’s the conversation itself and not the substance behind it.
Feminism
I think you’re covering part of it. Like I said, he’s extremely kind, and that extends to his treatment of women. He respects me, and the other women in his life, very much. He doesn’t think that men should get paid more than women of course, for example. I believe it is the conversation itself (part of it possibly my approach to it, part of it because he finds the topic uncomfortable) that presents the problem.
Anon
Maybe he feels defensive and that impedes the conversation.
Meg Murry
Yes – I think you need to say to him “This is really important to me. It may not be important to you, but I need you to at least respect that it is important to me and not ignore it, make fun or it or berate me for it.”
At the end of the day, you probably can’t re-educate him. This comes back to the study that we’ve seen on here a lot that the number one predictor in how successful a relationship will be long term is that couples that roll their eyes when the other talks don’t last. You can have different views, and you can agree to disagree politely. But once you get into dismissing each others opinions, putting them down or eye rolling – that just won’t work long term.
Anon
My husband is this way too. He refuses to accept that there are issues specific to women. He says men have issues too and they don’t make big deal about that…!!! He respects women and he has women bosses and colleagues whom he always praise how intelligent they are. He has always supported my career goals. But he just refuses to accept that women have it more difficult than men in society or in business.
Anonymous
I like having these discussions. I honestly cannot picture a lifetime with someone who isn’t interested in discussing politics, culture , or current events. What’s left? Sports, gossip, and weather?
You don’t get to conclude that he “should” want to discuss these issues and argue him into submission. You do get to say “when you refuse to talk to me about things that interest me, and tell me that the life I experience isn’t real, I don’t feel like your valued partner.” Then see what happens. Maybe he tries to be more open. Maybe you spend a lifetime making yourself small so he can feel big. Maybe you break up.
But first you apologize for losing your temper. Always a good step.
Anonymous
I’m sorry, this would probably be a dealbreaker for me. I want my partner to believe in equality and recognize the issues faced by women, person of colour, etc., and not have his response be “well, it doesn’t affect me so the problem doesn’t exist”.
Anon
Same here. It goes to fundamental world views and I also cannot imagine raising children with someline like that.
anon
+1,000,000
Being so unwilling to admit that women face issues in this society would be a deal breaker for me.
His close-mindedness and dismissive attitude would also be a deal breaker for me.
To give him the benefit of the doubt, the anti-feminist faction has done a pretty good job of creating a Straw Feminist in recent decades- a caricature of what a feminist really is*. Think, man-hating, non-shaving, shrill stereotypes. I have met a lot of men who react strongly to the Straw Feminist but who actually hold feminist beliefs. It sounds like maybe he’s one of these people?
*This is not to say that I think feminists are always perfect at delivering the message, but that’s a topic for another day.
Senior Attorney
Yup.
I have a close colleague/friend who is this way and although I love him like a brother, I told him the other day that I could never date him (if he were single) because this issue is a total, total deal-breaker for me.
Sarabeth
Ditto. I’ll say that my husband did not call himself a feminist when we met, and was uncomfortable with my tendency to turn a gendered lens on everything. Underneath it all, though, we share the same core values, including a commitment to social justice in all its forms. And I am so, so glad to be raising my daughter with someone who “gets it.” It influences some truly fundamental things about our shared life, from where we choose to live (economically and racially diverse neighborhood) to my career (he is supportive of giving my career equal priority even though I earn half as much) to how we spend our money (allocating a set percentage of income to give away). There are real trade offs to all of these decisions, and I am eternally thankful to be with someone who wants to work towards the same things,
Lyssa
Is it possible to discuss these sorts of issues without using the word “feminism” (or variants thereof)? My general opinion is that that word has basically reached the point of uselessness – everyone brings their own preconceived notions to it, and it is impossible to determine what a person means when they use it. What if you frame it more as a human rights issue related to the underlying concern (i.e., “I heard this interesting story about the horrors of FGM in X the other day . . . “).
But, in the long run, I agree with AnonMom that it’s impossible to judge without us having been there. He shouldn’t laugh or be dismissive, though. It sounds like (from your description) your husband is a good person but just not generally interested in politics – while it’s always good to have shared interests, you can’t expect your SO to be interested in everything that you’re interested in. Is this something that you can fulfill in other ways, separate from him?
With respect to kids, I think that it will ultimately be good for them to see that you two have separate personalities and interests, and that they can learn from both of you about different things.
Anon
I don’t think the word “feminist” is the issue (but I do think a lot of people who don’t actually want equality for women try to make it about the word, to divert attention from the actual inequality).
It boils down to whether or not he thinks, at a fundamental level, that men and women are socially, politically, and economically equal now, and whether or not he thinks they should be. End of story.
Lyssa
OK, and she says that he does believe in those things, so there’s obviously another issue, probably in the way it’s being discussed and/or heard. Either way, I don’t think an “end of story” type of lecture is going to help anything.
Unicorn
Are you seriously suggesting that this woman should refrain from offending her male partner by referring to her belief in her own personhood as feminism?
mmm
Wow, that’s a stretch.
Hey, hey!
Holy crap. This is completely antithetical to the entire point of this (and the way I live my life).
Unicorn
Just to clarify – what I meant was that it seems like Lyssa was saying that, in order for the OP to not offend her SO, she should not refer to her beliefs as feminist. Which, in case it wasn’t obvious, was a statement of my disbelief at this suggestion.
Anonymous
Your opinion is that the word “feminist” isn’t useful. But the OP calls herself a feminist. It’s obviously important to her. The answer isn’t stop doing that to make a man feel less threatened. That’s literally the entire point.
Senior Attorney
RIGHT?!?!?!
Gah.
The fact that we are still having this discussion, a generation or two later, makes me so ragey I can’t even stand it…
anon
“My general opinion is that that word has basically reached the point of uselessness – everyone brings their own preconceived notions to it, and it is impossible to determine what a person means when they use it.”
This is an example of what I mean when I say there’s a Straw Feminist out there.
Anonymous
Yup. Because its actually very, very easy to determine what a person means when they use it. It means they think women are equal to men.
anon
I have encountered men who are extremely kind and respectful but sometimes just have no idea. When it’s framed to them as a problem that affects you – someone they care about – and not this imagined abstract hysterical group of women, it tends to be more real. When everyone was talking about #yesallwomen a friend of mine said that it was like when friends of his (he is African American) realize the micro-aggressions that amount to modern day racism. Sometimes men just have no clue that women are always on alert that someone walking behind them could attack them. You said he doesn’t like talking about politics and social issues, but what about talking about things that affect you? If you have daughters some day, how will he feel knowing how se*ualized they are at a young age?
hoola hoopa
I was in a serious relationship with a man for five years who felt that way. I’d try to bring attention to situations or issues that arose naturally, and sometimes he’d admit to some degree of unfairness (RARELY) but he could never make the connections that there was a larger problem even with guidance. In his mind, they were independent flukes and they would always be independent flukes.
At the time, I would have told you that he treated me fairly and equally, but in retrospect he really didn’t see me as equal. He admired my accomplishments, but at the same time he really didn’t give a sh*t about my thoughts and opinions. He regarded me far better than most women, even his female colleagues or superiors. The rare woman that garnered his respect was an outlier (his words).
The relationship ended because ultimately we didn’t see eye to eye on life in general. This issue you’re dealing with now was just one aspect on which we differed. It became crippling obvious that we had entirely different world views that were incompatible. I wish I’d been able to recognize it sooner but the good aspects of the relationship covered it up for many years.
Brunchaholic
This. Without knowing much about your relationship, I hate to dismiss it or reduce it to this single issue, but I’ve been in serious relationships with men in the past that were very dismissive of women’s issues and looking back I can now see how that viewpoint absolutely did affect the way that he treated me. I just couldn’t see it at the time.
Like everyone else is saying, this is different than having a different opinion about minimum wage laws or universal healthcare- this is a dismissal of your perception of your own experience as a woman and a kind of a dismissal of your personhood. That’s a really difficult thing to get past.
Anon
You’re not unreasonable, you’re just not on the same page and maybe never will be. You might try to frame it in terms of if he had a daughter, but who knows how effective discussion will be with him.
Ellen
I agree with the other OP’s! Do not, repeat, DO NOT, have PROCREATIVE sex with this man. While you can certainly have RECREATIONAL sex with him (if he is any good, which most men realy are NOT), that is fine. Have at it b/c it is fun, but under no circumstances should you let his weenie get you pregnant, b/c then you will have 21 years of fighting over upbringeing of your child.
Personaly I can NOT stand a man who does not respect feminism and all the thing’s we as professional women have had to go through. Thank GOD for people like Gloria Steinhem and other’s who burned their bras in the 1970’s so that we have some sembleance of equality, but even now, we are NOT respected for our minds, but onley our bodie’s. FOOEY on men that just want to have us in bed then do NOT want to discuss political situeations with us. We are smart for a reason, and are not just on this earth to provide a receptacle for their weenie’s. DOUBEL FOOEY on men that just think of us as receptacles.
So stick to your position which is a good one and if need be, do what is best, which can include withholding what he want’s most from you. If you use your legs like a clamshell, he will surely come around b/c he will realize you are far more than a dumb blond that is just there for sex. Alan eventueally realized that, but by the time he did, it was to late and I no longer wanted any part of him, for sex, or otherwise. TRIPEL FOOEY!
Wildkitten
I heart Ellen.
Enginon
“FOOEY on men that just want to have us in bed then do NOT want to discuss political situeations with us.”
Hahaha, truer words have never been spoken! I want this printed on a mug.
Away Game
I think it’s unreasonable to ask someone to have long, repeated conversations on an issue/group of issues that they don’t enjoy discussing, regardless of the issue. At the same time, if my SO cared deeply about an issue I did not care to discuss often, I’d try to find some time to talk about it, but would ask that he not raise it over and over and over again – balance between his needs and mine. If I didn’t like talking about politics, and was dating someone who cared Very. Much about those issues and wanted to discuss them All.The.Time, I would likely find it tiresome, even though I do understand that political issues do indeed affect me.
If you can’t discuss an issue – any issue- that is very important to you and one that informs and shapes how you see and interact with the world, maybe the real problem is compatibility, not the topic of discussion. Instead of feminism, it could be labor issues, or religion, or the environment, or even sports….He doesn’t like or find interesting something that is critical to you. Can you live with that? Because it’s unlikely he will change, although you may be able to negotiate the amount of time he is willing to spend listening to you discuss it – not because he cares about feminism or becuase you’ll convince him, just that he may be willing to muster an interest because it’s important to YOU. Would that be good enough? If he will never be willing to see it the way you do, is this the right long-term relationship for you, even if he’s a totally awesome and amazing guy?
newly in-house
+1000
Senior Attorney
Uh-huh.
Hey, hey!
This would 100% be a deal-breaker for me, so, no, I don’t think you are an “extreme feminist” (?!) or blowing things out of proportion.
I have not yet read the other responses, but his inability and unwillingness to listen to you and learn about you and what is clearly so important to you is not really compatible with a kind or fair person. He is really going to need to get out of his box of me-me-me and listen. I am sorry.
Former Partner, Now In-House
I am old enough to remember when feminism was not a dirty word. Although your SO’s position would be a deal breaker for me (and I totally understand your position and identify with it), I guess I can’t blame him for being the victim of a very successful campaign over the last two decades to make feminism a dirty word.
Having said that, …
He may feel differently about something that affects his life directly and concretely. Somewhere online or in a book, you can find lists of things that couples should discuss before deciding to get married. The list generally breaks down into questions about: kids, money, politics, religion and sex. What if you were to have a series of conversations in a “pre-marriage” kind of way. The questions about kids and money should flush out a lot of his feelings about what he calls “bad feminism that doesn’t matter to me” and you and I call “our lives.” For example:
1. Do you want kids?
2. How many?
3. When?
4. Do you think we should take steps to control when we have kids? If so, who should pay for that (me, you, us, my health insurance, other)?
5. Who do you think should stay with the baby after it is born (you, me, someone else)?
6. If you, how will we replace your salary?
6a. How long will you stay home? How will we compensate you for the professional experience you lose during that time?
7. If me, how will we replace my salary?
8. How long will I stay home? How will we compensate me for the professional experience I lose during that time?
9. If someone else, how will we pay that person?
I could go on forever, but my point is that if it starts to be about him and his life and his choices, maybe it will become more concrete and less abstract-feminism-is-bad-and-isn’t-for-me.
Former Partner, Now In-House
He might also enjoy the utilitarian argument behind “Half The Sky.” I haven’t read it (I want to), but as I understand it, the argument is that by helping women in a particular society, you help the entire society. Maybe that would make it less about women whining and more about generally improving life for everyone for him?
Skincare
Do any other readers follow a korean skincae regime?
The comment earler about Missha made me remember that a friend raves abut their stuff, but it seems so expensive and time consuming to have like 6 products you use every morning, and a different 6 every night. Maybe it’s worth it though? Or even just adding couple extra proucts might be worth the time if I don’t go all in?
Anonymous
No. Because I have a job, and a family, and more important life interests than perfecting my appearance.
JJ
Because no one can place different values on things…
Anonymous
Because no one gets to have the opinion that absurd 19 step Korean skin care regimes are a horrible by product of a society that value physical homogeneity and perfection to an extreme while keeping women away from actual power is an example of a bad value.
Those skin care regimes aren’t something you clinically need to do to your skin. They’re a way to live out values.
Anonymous
You realize you’re writing this comment on a s*t* devoted to fashion, right? That seems a little pot calling the kettle something….
Anon
Without question, South Korea has a long way to go in terms of gender equality.
However, they’ve managed to elect a female president, and we still haven’t…
Skincare
That seems unnecessarily harsh- you have time to hang out here (on a blog about fashion, which is a part of your appearance) and write snarky replies to real questions, but 10 minutes twice a day to wash my face is a waste of tme? Maybe you need some more coffee?
anon
I know, THE HORROR. Gosh, its awful when women try to look nice, for whatever reason. Saints *preserve* us.
I could give two sh!ts about how I look except for the fact that my job requires a polished appearance, and even this chick who gives zero fcuks about her looks applies a 7 step regime to her face in the morning and night. Huh, I didn’t even notice it until I counted. All combined, it takes all of 9 minutes.
houda
Same here. I rock at my job and I am often training people twice my age.
I’d rather be in sweatshirts and cords and let my hormonal acne show all day but the manicured, wet-shaved male senior managers I train would probably think I am a kid.
TO Lawyer
Ok now that I’m counting, I probably use 3-4 different products in mornings and at night (and occasionally add a couple extra products at night a few days a week for extra hydration and I don’t find it too time-consuming to be honest.
Maybe a couple extra products would be worth it? What do you currently use? Maybe it’s worth it to try a less expensive regime to see how good you are at sticking with it?
August
The only thing that I could maintain to take care of my appearance is to take a shower, apply some moisturizing lotion to my body and some serum to my face twice a day (morning and night). I have tried the longer skin care routines with more products but my interest wanes in two weeks and I am left with products which I will never use again.
Anon
No, but I do use some Korean skincare products. Korea really has some great ones – Mizon snail cream is the bomb.
anonsg
Yes, but I’m slowly building it up. You don’t have to use every single serum in their line to get the full effect.
I use The Face Shop, and have started with just using the Mango Seed Heart Volume Butter face cream moisturizer. And you get a ton of samples when you buy the product so you can test out serums and see what’s good for you. The Face Shop is pretty reasonably priced.
Basically, a morning regime for me would be a face wash, followed by toner and/or lotion, emulsion, face cream/butter, sunscreen, then BB cream, then concealer, then powder.
Sometimes, I skip the sunscreen since my BB cream has sunscreen. And if I’m uber lazy, I skip emulsion and sunscreen and face cream/butter in the mornings – basically just face wash + toner/lotion then straight to BB cream. The morning routine takes less than 10 minutes for me. I use skin79 BB cream.
For a night regime, I take off the makeup and then do a face wash, followed by toner and/or lotion, then serums (including hydrating serums, or any medical serums – I put Bio-Oil on at this step), then emulsions then face cream/butter. At night I wait a little bit between lotions, serums, emulsions, and the face cream.
I find that even if I do the shorter routine in the morning, but the longer one at night, it has still be going pretty well.
In addition to the Mango Seed line, I also like the Green Tea emulsion which I sometimes use instead of lotion, as well as the Chia Seed Water line.
A Glossy Discourse talks about Korean skincare products a lot.. The blog’s actually having a giveaway for some gel masks from skinfood right now. Definitely check it out: http://www.aglossydiscourse.com/
houda
I was the one mentioning Missha.
Since I lead a busy lifestyle, I realized I cannot afford to go get facials or other time-consuming beauty treats.
But at the same time my skill looked dull and had a lot of hyperpigmentation. Stress, lack of sleep and bad diet had a toll on my skin.
I decided that I will take care of my skin on a daily basis. I do use product layering and it works amazingly for me. Also with time, I noticed that repeating the same steps so many days in a row, made my routine very short because I do not think what I will be using.
For my frequent business trips I have depotted my full skincare routine in my 3-1-1 bag so even when on the road, I don’t change anything to my regimen.
Within 2 months, my skin has tremendously changed and I think that it helped boost my self-confidence especially that I do a lot of training and have to stand in front of an entire room of senior males. My skin condition is the last thing I want to worry about and I believe my skincare layering routine is of great help for my hormonal acne.
houda
I am posting my morning skincare routine on my channel tomorrow, if anyone is interested.
Anonymous
Another fight-with-the-manperson TJ: During a fight about something only tangentially related, BF told me that one of the reasons he hesitates to commit to me is that he questions whether I would the kind of co-parent he wants for our hypothetical future children. He said that my stress level is generally high (biglaw) and he doesn’t know if I would be really present as a mother. He doesn’t want to have to do it alone. At least in part because of how it came up (mid-argument), I felt really attacked, like he was saying I would be a bad mother.
I’m really hurt. I don’t even know how to bring this up or get some resolution on this. I feel like he’s being unfair to me and also really hypocritical – like my life is supposed to be ready to plop a baby into, but his isn’t (PLENTY of his habits are not baby-friendly). Thoughts on how to deal with this?
Anonymous
Hey manperson, when you called me a bad mother in a fight that was an attack and I didn’t like it. I’d love to talk with you about the way we want to raise kids and the types of changes we would both need to make to our current lifestyle, but not in the heat of an argument.”
If you feel like you can’t tell him you’re hurt, you have bigger issues.
OP
I told him I was hurt. When he said it I told him I felt attacked, that I felt like he was calling me a bad mother, and that if he had legitimate concerns, mid-argument was not an appropriate time to discuss them. He denied that he was calling me a bad mother and maybe his timing wasn’t the best but he should be able to express how he feels.
ETA: I like your suggestion about “let’s discuss the changes we would BOTH” need to make.” It addresses the hypocrisy point, which I didn’t raise at the time.
Anonymous
No. Not telling him during a fight. Telling him calmly over dinner days later that you’re still upset.
Anon
You should discuss what kind of lives you both want so that you know where you stand. If you were to have a baby, thinking about work/life balance issues is part of the pie. However, perhaps you should examine why he would rather bring it up in a fight and refuse to commit rather than talk about it with you before leaping to conclusions. The conversation topic is important, but his behavior is also important.
Lyssa
It sounds to me like it’s a good thing that you’re having this discussion, regardless of how it came up. At some point, it is probably good for you to have a discussion about what the future would hold and what changes you both would/will/would be open to making and what is important to each of you. I would assume that he figures that he can drop the habits that you refer to any time, but that you’re not likely to change careers, which makes sense. If he considers certain things important in co-parenting, that is his right, regardless of whether or not you agree that they are important (and vice versa, of course). Unless he just flat out said that you would be a bad mother, I don’t think that it’s fair to interpret it that way, just that the two of you may have different priorities. He’s allowed to consider certain things important to his future family. It may be that, while the two of you have a good relationship otherwise, you’re just not compatible long term, and that’s OK, too (better to know now).
EG
Oof, that sucks. I don’t blame you for feeling attacked and hurt. If it came up seemingly out of nowhere, it may be something he’s been thinking about for awhile. Or not at all. Manpeople are very dumb sometimes. If he already blames you for abandoning his futurechildren, then maybe he isn’t the one to have those children with. It’s like he’s trying to pre-guilt you into changing your life for something that hasn’t even been discussed or considered yet.
I would try to have a conversation with him about what he actually wants in a life partner, but don’t de-emphasize your own needs.
N.C. anon
By bringing up your hypothetical parenting in the middle of a fight about something else, it sounds like your BF doesn’t fight fair. Is this a regular habit of his? (He feels like he’s losing the argument on its merits so he goes for an emotional blow?) Either way, I think it’s worth asking him to have a discussion about hypothetical parenthood and also separately calling him out for bringing emotional, hypothetical, unrelated topics into fights which have their own emotional charge.
Brunchaholic
This. It sounds much more like he was fighting dirty than that he has actual concerns about your ability to mother. If this is something that he does frequently (or possibly you do as well?), then I think the issue to be discussed is more about lines you should agree not to cross during arguments than planning the hypothetical changes in your hypothetical future for your hypothetical baby.
I say this because it sounds like you were genuinely shocked at his words. Sure, maybe they are indicative of some other deep-seeded issue. Or maybe he lost control and blew a tiny frustration into something it was never meant to be. No need to assume the worst, IMHO.
roses
Definitely two separate problems here. He definitely shouldn’t have brought up a tangential concern during a fight about something else. That’s a communication problem that you two should work on.
But regarding his substantive concern, while I totally get why you felt like he was saying you were going to be a bad mother because of the (very not-OK) context in which he brought it up, I don’t think that’s necessarily what he meant. I only say this because I’ve been on the opposite side of this conversation with my husband. We don’t have kids yet, but I really worry that if he goes for partner in Biglaw, I’m going to be left with the bulk of the child-rearing responsibility and it will hurt my own career goals (which aren’t in Biglaw, but could require a schedule that doesn’t permit a 4 PM daycare/school pickup). That doesn’t mean I think he’ll be a bad father, though – I have no doubts that he will be great with kids. But I’m terrified of my own career and life taking a nosedive in order to have that happen.
anon
My only advice is (based on hard-learned experience) to only have kids with someone who is 100% on your team and vice versa. Many high-achieving women are good parents. Some SAHMs are not good parents. Endless options exist. But only someone who has a “we’re in this together” approach can make a two-job, kids and high achievement life together work. JMHO
Anon
Ladies–I need your inspiration. I may sound like Ellen, but I swear my issue is real.
A boy and I have been dating for 4 dates. He texts me all the time. He FBs me. We get along great in person. Some of his texts are spicy, and he claims to be into me. But we haven’t smooched yet! Beyond sending copious come-hither stares, how can I get this boy to make a move?
Issues: We meet places, he drives me home. My street is a really tight one-way street so I have to jump out when we get there. Short of parking, 1950s-style, what to do?
Issue: Don’t want to ask him upstairs, because I live in a studio which is mostly bed. I want to smooch him, but am not ready to bed him.
Issue: He lives completely in the other direction, so short of me saying, “TAKE ME HOME” I am not sure how to get to his place.
Do I just pin him to a wall in the back of a restaurant?!?! Argh. I am not good at PDA.
I want to pursue him while he thinks he is doing the pursuing. I think he is being standoffish because he is afraid I will think him too forward.
Why is dating like being 16? Argh.
Advise pls. Do you have any good, “KISS ME!?!?” stories? Help!!! Dinner is on Weds nite.
Maddie Ross
I’m not shots.shots.shots, but I think that a few of those and just flinging yourself at him is the answer. It’s worked for me in the past.
N.C. anon
Or to adapt this slightly to advice I’ve read elsewhere, mid-come hither look, say, “I would really like to kiss you right now.” Hopefully he’ll answer in the affirmative.
Bee
Plan dates that are more likely to have private moments. Walk in a park, local garden, museum, etc. If you’re comfortable going to his place, suggest a dinner and movie night at home and explain your place is really small. Crowded bars and restaurants aren’t really conducive to smooching.
hoola hoopa
Kiss him before you get into the car. Solves issues 1 and 2. Issue 3 is a non-issue if you don’t want to bed him, IMO.
My husband was such a gentleman, sheesh. So I kissed him on the cheek while we walked out of the restaurant (hint taken), then essentially pinned him against his car. Worked!
Away Game
You need a more private date location that isn’t necessarily at each other’s houses. Drive in movie, walk in the park, walk along the beach, hike, picnic, county fair where you can move to an out of the way bench?….basically, go somewhere you are not always surrounded by people who will make you both feel even more awkward than usual for a first kiss -which is usually pretty awkward in my opinion. Somewhere hands are not occupied by driving, there is no table between you, and there aren’t rows of people in front/behind you. Somewhere you can reach out, take his hand, and stand really close to him. (Then you can kiss him, if he doesn’t kiss you.)
Anonymous
Just lean over when you get in the car and kiss him. It’s really only complicated if you make it so.
Anon
Are you sure you’re not Ellen? If you want to kiss him, kiss him. Doesn’t matter where. Or ask if he wants to watch a movie at his place, if you need some kind of private ambiance.
Sydney Bristow
Anecdotal here. My fiancé and I didn’t have our real first kiss until our 5th date. I was totally wondering if he was actually interested in me and tried to kiss him at the end of date number 4. Turns out he just really wanted it to be a sweet moment in a memorable place, which it was.
Anon
Same thing with my husband. Find a more private place to go on a date and it will likely happen, one of you will feel brave and go for it. Don’t panic yet! 4 dates feels likes forever, but it’s not.
Unicorn
Dating is like being 16 because you are acting like a 16 year old. If you want to kiss him, kiss him.
Nikki
I jumped on these pumps in the cinnamon color pictured, because I had the itch and the price was so great! But I wasn’t looking for reddish colored shoes. Now they’re on their way and I’m assuming they’ll fit and I’ll love them and keep them. But. What should I wear them with?
SC
I wear my reddish-brown shoes for a pop of color with navy, brown, or gray – any neutral except black. Occasionally, for contrast, I’ll wear them with a top or cardigan that’s a sedate blue (maybe sky blue or dark turquoise) or mustard yellow. I’m sure there are other options out there!
Anonymous
SO was actively told to apply to a job in another city. Essentially, a company claims to want to hire him but has nothing available and suggested he apply to a 2 year temporary job in another city and wait for an opening in our city and then transfer back to our home city. There is obviously no guarantee that the 2 year temp job would turn into a permanent job or that he would then get a job in our city. This particular company has pulled this nonsense on my husband before (they internally hired last time). He was downright crushed last time.
Everyone is very enthusiastic about SO applying for this job. It would result in a raise for him, more work in line with what he wants to do and mentor ship which is something he seems to want.
My perspective is that he and I both have good, permanent jobs right now. I’ve been at my job longer than he has been at his, and currently earn more than he would at either job. We have childcare arrangements already made for our kid (it would be extremely difficult to get childcare for a young child in the new city and more expensive). We own a house here. I feel as though I don’t have any say in this application. Everyone just feels that since I am on mat leave anyway that it shouldn’t matter to me. I can apparently just take extra mat leave while I look for a new job and new childcare for our kid.
If situations were reversed I feel that no one would expect him to do what he is expecting me to.
Thoughts?
Anonymous
Who is this “everyone” and why are they all up in your business and what does he think?
Anon
+1. This is a decision for you and your husband, not “everyone”.
anon
It sounds like a silly path for him to take given how stable you are where you are and how uncertain the outcomes are.
He needs to do what is best for both of you, regardless of how much everyone is cheerleading for another result. It’s hard to resist the cheerleading sometimes, but at the end of the day, you two are the ones who have to live with the consequences of that choice.
hoola hoopa
How bad of a fit is his current job? How likely is it that they’d transfer him? How likely is it that you’d be happy to stay indefinitely in new city rather than relocate a second time? What are the chances that they can notify him when they have an opening in your current city within two years?
Obviously there are always more details to a situation that one can put here, but I’d find it puzzling if a company was so interested that they needed him now but wouldn’t contact him with the position he actually wanted became available. Seems like the best thing to do is to have him maintain a relationship with the company and continue to wait for a position to open in your current city.
SC
I agree with the comments above. I’d ask your husband to talk about the long-term effects on both of your career and family goals. He clearly sees this as an exciting opportunity for his career – although there’s clearly some risk since it’s a temporary position. What would it do to your career to or for your career to work in new city? To change jobs twice in two or three years? Would it affect your family planning to change jobs twice (for example, if either work place had a minimum period before you could take paid maternity leave)?
This is definitely a conversation you and your husband need to have together. And I’m sure it’s stressful to think about uprooting your family — only to think about doing it again in two years. But try to have the conversation (and hopefully make a decision) about what’s best long-term as a family. Then, if you decide to move, talk to him about how to share the burden — maybe he scrambles to find daycare while you update your resume and look for jobs, or he takes over more responsibilities at home while you work on the logistics of moving, or whatever works for you.
MJ
You know this company better than I do, but I always think that LT temporary jobs are BS. If they value your husband, then they will create a permanent position for him, full stop. Asking someone to move their dual-career household (which owns a house), young children (including, it appears, an infant) to another city for a temp job is just flat dab BS. This is not a condemnation of you or your husband’s excitement, but rather of the company. I am really risk-averse, and if my company did this to me (or had a history of asks like this to others), then I don’t think they’re valuing their employees (read: your husband) properly.
I would talk this out with my hubs and tell him that, from a financial perspective and a life upheaval perspective, it’s not what you want right now. And that it’s not unreasonable for him to say that this isn’t right for your family at this time back to the Co. Good Luck–this sounds really excruciating–you want to cheerlead your partner, but not when it’s going to lead your family in the wrong direction. Yuck.
hwr
Just because no one else has said it explicitly – I’d be furious if I were you! You’re supposed to give up your house, your city, your childcare, your job, and a significant portion of income for two years AND THEN DO IT AGAIN when a position opens in original city? I see the benefit to the company, and I see the benefit to your husband (maybe), but what’s the benefit your FAMILY, and you? If you were looking for a change anyway and had the financial cushion to do so, that’d be a whole different story, but it doesn’t sound like that’s the case here and I’d be really angry at the total lack of consideration toward you. I say this as someone whose moved twice for my husband – happily, because it was the right thing for both of us, and he respected the sacrifice it was for me.
Good luck, hope you have someone on Team You.