ByKat Hours Updated
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Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Curve & Flare Dress

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. boden-fit-flare-dress-412x225pxI am apparently in a fit and flare mood this week — so even though this dress is very similar to yesterday's dress, I thought I'd post it also. I like the colorblocking here, but note that it also comes in solid colors if it's not your thing (the burgundy looks particularly nice). The fact that it's machine washable (like most Boden clothes) is an added bonus. The dress is $148 at Boden, available in regular, petite and tall sizes 2-18 for $148. Curve & Flare Dress Here's a similar long-sleeved fit and flare dress in plus sizes. If you're on the hunt for machine washable clothes for work, check out our recent roundup of the best brands for washable workwear over at CorporetteMoms. Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-all)

Sales of note for 12.13

  • Nordstrom – Beauty deals on skincare including Charlotte Tilbury, Living Proof, Dyson, Shark Pro, and gift sets!
  • Ann Taylor – 50% off everything, including new arrivals (order via standard shipping for 12/23 expected delivery)
  • Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
  • Eloquii – 400+ styles starting at $19
  • J.Crew – Up to 60% off almost everything + free shipping (12/13 only)
  • J.Crew Factory – 50% off everything and free shipping, no minimum
  • Macy's – $30 off every $150 beauty purchase on top brands
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off, plus free shipping on everything (and 20% off your first order)
  • Talbots – 50% off entire purchase, and free shipping on $99+

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

284 Comments

  1. What should I wear on a trip to Spain in October? We’ll be in Madrid and then Barcelona. Should be in the 60s-70s.

    1. I was there in late October and it was quite warm. Packed a jacket that I never wore once. Long sleeves occasionally. Jeans / pants usually.

    2. Check the low temps as well. I was rhere at the end of March and it was chilly enough in the morning to need a jacket and warmed up during the day. Good walking shoes.

      1. I mainly wore ponte knit leggings and pants with knit shirts abd cardigans. The layers helped as the weather changed during the day. I found the city to be pretty casual. A lot of skinny jeans and booties.

  2. In the event of a death, how do family members gain access to a safe deposit box if no one else is named on the lease? Is it stated in the will or can someone be named as POA? (Non-legal regular reader trying to do a little DIY estate planning).

    1. *Not a legal answer* Maybe you should ask the bank? I know I’ve had to list next of kin on lots of bank accounts. I don’t know why a safe deposit box would be any different.

    3. Also not a legal answer– I was an elderly client’s financial POA due to a contentious family situation. When she passed away, I gave her safe deposit box keys to the estate executor, who is an attorney. She is able to go to the bank and get the stuff out of the box and distribute it according to the will.

    4. My parents love their safe deposit box at the bank but its a HASSLE.

      I was told at my parent’s bank that if my name is NOT on the safe deposit box I would need to show that I was the executor of the estate and have a certificate of death in my hand. However, if they were sick like in the hospital in a coma there was no way I could get access.

      So we decided to make sure my sister and my name were both added to the security deposit box, so we wouldn’t end up in this issue. This was a huge hassle. We had to do it in person. Also, once you add one name to it, all parties then have to be there in person to make any future changes. So for my name to be added, both my parents had to be there. And if we had not done my sister at the same time, since my name was added I would have then had to be there with my parents to sign my sister on. Basically we waited until everyone was in town together and had a signing party.

    5. Can you tell us what state you’re in? In my state, the executor needs a court order to open the safe deposit box, which is why we tell clients never to put their EP docs in the box.

    6. POA becomes invalid after a death, so that won’t help you in that instance. In Florida, there are statutes to allow certain people into a box for the sole purpose of retrieving an original Will, burial plot deeds, etc. However, IME, the bank wouldn’t acknowledge the statute and required a court order authorizing someone to extract the Will. Once we got the Will, we had to then probate to get access to the remaining contents of the box.

      The whole process was ridiculous and frustrating and racked up otherwise unnecessary attorney’s fees. If you have someone you can add to the box as a joint owner, that may be the easiest route. In Florida, some banks allow you to transfer your box into your trust, which would give your Trustee access, so that may be another option.

      Estate planning is one of those areas that’s worth spending some money now (on a qualified attorney in your state) to ensure it’s all done properly and to avoid future hassle and costs. At the very least, you should speak to someone at your bank, but I’ve had bad experiences with receiving misinformation from bank employees, so beware of that.

    7. Adding someone to the box is the way to go. It may vary by state but in my state, you must be executor and have a certificate of death and show the executorship paperwork to access.

  3. This looks cute but for me, probably way too casual compared to yesterdays dress- especially the quilted knit. However, it would be a great weekends dress for me, or for work travel with tights.

    I’m looking for white silk (or silk-ish) tshirts, to wear under jewel tone jackets and with cropped black pants or with jeans. I love the Cuyana silk tee, but $200 is more than I’d spend to upgrade my uniform, especially if I’d like to grab a few. Any suggestions for similar tops?

      1. Ah, great catch! Unfortunately for me, all that’s left now is the white. Are there any other brand of silk tees you would recommend? I’m also looking for something well under $200. Thanks!

    3. Well now how do you know it is tights or fle*ce that is catching the filter?

      Also, why is this such a big deal? I see folks getting upset about the moderation all the time and just wanted to let Kat know that there are some of us that care not if it takes a while for their comment to make it on the site.

          1. I do not think people are spamming and trolling a fashion blog when mentioning tights or fleece. Do I appreciate that people can’t curse, spam or be otherwise “the worst the internet has to offer”? Absolutely. But tights? and fleece? I couldn’t do anything inappropriate with those words if I tried.

          2. Anon @ 225, clearly you missed the existence of a certain troll who loved talking about fleece tights.

  5. How should pleat-front pants fit? I’m looking at a pair at MM. LaFleur and have ordered and returned them twice, but today with my pants digging into my stomach, I’m ready to try again because they were so comfortable! Do the pleats need to lay completely flat?

    (Any other comfortable pants? I’m in a business formal setting so they need to be passable as suiting)

    1. I just look for them to be flattering and to fit well at the waist which then usually takes care of the pleats issue.
      The most comfortable work pants I’ve ever owned were Eileen Fisher. I think I bought them on clearance somewhere. They weren’t the most attractive but they felt like pajamas. I wore them whenever I knew I’d be pulling a late night at the office or if I wasn’t feeling well.

      1. +1 – pleats are really meant to give you more fabric volume in the leg/further out from the pleat, not at the waistband/top of the pleat.

  6. When you get praise in an email from an external person you work with (essentially a client, but not in the legal context) do you forward the email to your boss? The same email also raises an issue that I need to ask my boss about so typically I would forward it to him anyway and say “what are your thoughts about XYZ issue?” but I’m wondering if that will come off as either humble-bragging (“oooh I didn’t even know those nice words were in there!” kind of thing) or if it isn’t direct enough about the praise.

    1. My workplace has a very strong culture of feedback. It would not be unusual for this sort of email to be forwarded to a superior. I might phrase my email as something like this:
      Boss,
      Please see below – client A was pleased with deliverable X that we submitted last week. Client A also mentioned issue Y. What are your thoughts on [insert question you need to ask your boss]…

    2. I probably wouldn’t forward it if the email didn’t raise another issue but it sounds like a perfect situation here to pass along! You could either say nothing about the praise and just ask about the issue if the nice comment is limited to a small portion of the email. If it would be too weird to just completely overlook it, just acknowledge it by saying something like, “Some kind words from Susy Client, but her note also raises XYZ issue – what are your thoughts on that?”

      1. This. Also, I admit to pinning the printed-out email to my cubicle wall as motivation. hashtag no shame hashtag humble brag

        1. I’ve forwarded an email to my boss and directly called it out: “I’m self-serving enough to send this along to you.” I also have posted similar items where I can see them.

    4. Can you frame it as positive feedback about the company and forward it as “thought you would like to know that client X is very happy with us.” Depending on how it’s worded, I don’t think it would be seen as humble bragging because ultimately the positive sentiment is a reflection on your entire office. And, yes, def. save it.

    5. I think this is one of those things that men do without a second thought, whereas women worry we are humble bragging. A partner I work with who is junior but on track to be super successful is the king of this type of thing and I aspire to be like him. When we get a praise email from a firm client for a file we got referred from some other partner, he always sends to the other partner, usually as a FW with a line like, as you can see, we’ve now completed the work for Client, you can close your file. So he doesn’t draw direct attention to the praise, but definitely forwards it with some other appropriate comment.

    6. As a manager if my employees forwarded me this just randomly to show the client was happy I would do the biggest internal eye roll imaginable. The client should be happy and praise you. Anything less, is really just a mediocre/below average. What’s that say? “Normally client X is not impressed or happy, but today they are, so here boss, I’m not incompetent!”

      1. It was really exceptional praise, along the lines of “I’ve been doing this 15 years and never worked with someone as good at this as you” not just “nice job on this project, OP.” I def wouldn’t fwd the latter.

        1. I guess along the same lines, when I am praising someone on something exceptional I either cc’ their boss or send them a separate email to let them know what a good job they did. If there’e another legitimate reason to forward the partner the email, “see below re: question about X” then do it. Otherwise, I’d not.

      2. Don’t you want to know if the client is satisfied, though? It seems odd to ding your employees for giving you an update. Some clients are tougher than others and are rarely happy no matter what you do for them. I’m so glad you’re not my manager.

        1. +1 I like getting any feedback my team gets from clients, good or bad, so that I know how client relationships are going and if I (and my team) need to do anything differently to maintain them.

      3. “The client should be happy and praise you. Anything less, is (sic) really just a mediocre/below average.”

        Ha, the implied and unsupported assumption in your argument is that a client will always praise you (in writing, natch) when they are happy with you.

        Eyeroll indeed. Also glad you’re not my manager.

      4. As a manager, I love knowing when my staff and our clients are happy, and it is enormously useful to have stuff like this kind of email when I have to go in to bat for folks’ bonuses, promotions etc etc.

      5. LOL, in a contracting environment this is definitely not how it goes. Getting verbal praise at my former client was a huge deal, for them to put it in writing was even bigger. I had colleagues who weren’t even acknowledged at their client meetings because of contractor politics and would have never gotten a positive email.

    7. When I was a government contractor, I forwarded praise like this all the time, for me and for the junior person on my contract. Our PM and CEO sat off site so if we didn’t put feedback in front of them, they didn’t get it – it also helped them with new business etc.

    8. Absolutely forward praise to your supervisor. I don’t forward emails that just say, “thanks, good job,” but I always forward emails where the client took the time to add a few words of real praise. For example, a client once emailed me and said how much they appreciated all my hard work and that I really went above and beyond for her time and time again. I forwarded that to the supervising partner and said “Some kind words from the client below.” The client is his. He would never roll his eyes to hear that the associate to whom he entrusted his client was doing a great job.

  7. Long shot, but any chance that any of you are attending a firm wide partner meeting & black tie gala this weekend, as a lawyer or guest, in Ohio? I will be there and thought it might be fun to say hello. My anon email is anon.aek at the yahoo if you don’t want to out yourself here.

  8. Nothing on Boden ever fits me but I am so tempted to order this anyway. I love it.

  9. Does anyone ever feel like they are out of touch with things, or have been told that they are?

    My husband’s grandfather passed away and we are back in his hometown (in another state). It is completely different here than what we are used to.

    His cousin says we are “out of touch” with most people. She cited our jobs and salaries (both biglaw) how we have no debt, how we live in a building with a doorman and have ‘servants’ (a cook, and housekeeper who does laundry and other errands like shopping for the household, and an occasional driver), how our monthly rent is more than what people there pay for their mortgages in a year, how my engagement ring cost more than her truck, how our wedding cost as much as her house and the other houses in town, how we can afford to travel to expensive places, and how the bonuses we get are more than people there make in a year, among other things.

    My husband comes from a small town where most people are either farmers or factory workers. His cousin is former military and is a medic and volunteer firefighter but she also helps on her parent’s farm. No one here has been rude or hostile and they have welcomed us but it’s obvious that my husband and I are different. I don’t feel out of touch with things in general. Maybe with his hometown because I grew up in NYC and even my husband has gotten used to living there after 10 years. Has anyone ever felt out of touch or been told they are out of touch?

    1. It sounds like she has some jealously. You are only out of touch if you don’t appreciate that you are the 1% and that many, many people don’t have the things you have – household help, secure living situation, secure jobs (ie not seasonal/temporary), regular travel.

      2. Apologies if I made it seem like she was jealous or cold towards us. She has welcomed us into her home while we are staying here and has been nothing but nice. The out of touch statement from her was more that my husband and likely the people we associate with have problems that others can only dream of and that we can’t relate the problems most other people face. I conceded that it’s true for people in my husband’s hometown and state but not so much for our lives back in NYC.

        (I understand that my husband and I have it good compared to many other people outside of New York but don’t have millions in the bank are not part of the 1%)

        1. Look up the definition of 1%. I think it’s $450k combined income or so for a couple. If you’re both Big Law, you’re the 1% or certainly the 1.5%, and, yes, denying it does make you sound extremely out of touch.

          1. This. If you’re in BigLaw and don’t realize you are a 1-2% then you are out of touch.

          2. there are two different ways to measure the 1% — by income and by wealth.

            You’re correct that the income-based 1% averages $450k (it varies from state to state, and country to country). But the wealth-based 1% is more than $1.5M in net worth.

            This is not to say that those of us pulling in income that puts us in the 1% are not well off or lucky, we are, but it explains why many of us may not relate to the super-rich. If we don’t have trust funds or family money or investment-banking type bonuses and we have school loans to pay for, our net worth is no where near the 1% in wealth.

          3. But if you earn $500k a year and you say you’re not wealthy because you don’t have a net worth of $1.5M, you sound extremely out of touch. Especially when you’re in your 20s and 30s nobody would ever expect you to be in the 1% of net worth without family money. If you’re in the 1% in income, you’re definitely on track to get to the 1-2% of net worth in your 50s and 60s.

          4. Ok, so just because you aren’t the 1% doesn’t really matter – the truth of the matter is that to those of us in the at the 50%, the lifestyles of the 1%, 5% or even 10% can seem completely foreign.

            So yes, she might have called you the 1% and you know you aren’t – but you also know that you are so much closer to the 1% than she or her family ever are or will be, whether you consider it in terms of wealth or in terms of income.

          5. And net worth isn’t a great measure because it depends to a large extent on your lifestyle choices.

            OP mentioned an expensive wedding and expensive travel. It’s not like they are living middle class because they are buried under loans and socking everything they can at them.

        2. You may not have millions in the bank, but I bet you are pretty close to being in the 1%. I am, too. I think it’s easy to lose sight of that living in NYC, but we are all incredibly lucky. If you were protesting how you weren’t rich, I could see their statement being true. It sounds like he meant it in a “must be nice” way of wishful thinking. And it is kind of true – most people don’t struggle over how much to tip their doorman and all that. It doesn’t mean you’re a bad person.

        3. You don’t feel as rich or wealthy because NYC has a high percentage of billionaires and multimillionaires. If you look down the economic ladder, it becomes clear. If you look up, not so much. As long as you admit your 1% status and have gratitude, as well as treating others with respect, it is what it is.

          1. Yep. Don’t try to make “we’re just like you” happen with your husband’s family. That’s out of touch.

          2. Yep. You are wealthy by any reasonable standard. Denying that makes you super out of touch.

            A dear friend of mine has an amazing house on the hill here in town and she and her husband let us use it for my wedding after party. Her standard response when anybody comments on the amazingness of the house is “we’re very fortunate.” I think that is a much, much better response than “Oh, we don’t have it as good as you think” or some variation thereof.

        5. “I understand that my husband and I have it good compared to many other people outside of New York”

          I was with you at least somewhat (not necessarily in agreement, but at least believing that you aren’t out of touch) until this, which suggests that you assume that most other New Yorkers live a lifestyle similar to yours with similar financial security. Wowza.

    2. I think leading a really great life like you seem to be isn’t a bad thing, and does not necessarily make you out of touch, although I think it can be easy to get caught up in your bubble. Do you think you act in ways that project judgment or anything like that? I think maybe you could smooth this over by showing an interest in them and their lives. Ask them about the things that matter most in their lives, let them talk, and just show interest. I find that helps a lot in making a connection with people. Once said connection is made, I think they’re unlikely to care how much you spend on things, assuming you’re not flaunting it.

    3. When presented with a lifestyle thats unlike their own, people tend to arvel at it out loud- to point out things that seem strange to them. I think this is pretty natural for your husbands cousin, as it might be one a few times that she has encountered someone with your lifestyle.
      By the same token, then, its important that you’re not commenting on her lifestyle- don’t mention out loud all the things that are different about the way people live. Just be pleasant and kind, and dont bring up all your “servants” and you’ll be fine.

    4. What was the cousin’s point? This seems incredibly hostile of her and particularly out of place at a funeral.

      1. My husband was trying to give her parents some financial advice about their farm and it was nothing feasible for them to do and in no way could work. She has been welcoming and allowed us to stay in her home, but she had to gently point out to my husband that his financial advice might work in New York but most definitely won’t work for a farm in his home state.

        1. That’s fair criticism, actually. I’m sure there are local financial advisors who specialize in farming situations?

        3. Ok, with this context – yes, he’s out of touch and giving advice on something he’s not an expert on. Plus even if it was the 100% perfect advice, a family funeral is probably not the time for it.

          Don’t be a know-it-all. If the family members *ask* for his/your advice as lawyers in a subject you aren’t experts on, offer to help them find experts on something like creating a farm trust, and possibly help talk them through the legalese of a contract. But volunteering advice about a subject you don’t actually know about is a good way to p*ss off your family members.

        5. Sounds like your husband might be out of touch with farming if he hasn’t been around it in 10+ years. I’m from a rural farming community and the numbers involved are $$$$. It’s an expensive operation with huge cash swings and is even more big dollar now than when I was at home 10 years ago.

      2. Yes, I agree, however, I could also see how tensions could be running high when people are stressed about the loss of a loved one, and/or when alcohol is free flowing at a family event. I know in my family there was a lot of tension between the people who were there taking care of the day to day things at the end of a family member’s life vs the people who lived farther away and couldn’t physically be there to help but helped out financially vs the people who couldn’t/didn’t do either. Basically a combination of resentment from the grumpy folks who thought the others didn’t pull their fair share of the weight, and guilt from people who hadn’t realized how bad things were until it was too late.

        That said, there are also people who are just rabble rouser/pot stirrers who will be discontent and try to pick a fight with anyone who is different than them, and no matter what you do, you probably can’t win. So just put on your polite face, watch what you say and try to de-escalate when possible.

    5. How did that comment come up? If you were saying something silly (like I don’t know, “why don’t y’all hire a cook during harvest season to make life easier?” Or sharing the details of your bonus with people) then yes, you’d be out of touch. If she brought it up out of nowhere, maybe it was a little abrupt.

      1. Exactly. What spurred your cousin to say this? I have doubts that a cousin just randomly volunteered the opinion that you’re out of touch without something igniting that conversation. I wouldn’t immediately try to discount what your cousin was telling you as jealous. You may very well be out of touch.

    6. My two cents: if it’s one person, she’s probably jealous/has her own issues. If multiple people are acting like you’re out of touch, you’re probably being a little obnoxious. There are exceptions to that rule of course, but I think that’s a good general guideline.

      I will say that I’m from a similar background and I am careful to avoid name- and dollar-dropping. Most people in rural areas have no idea how much NYC costs, so unless you’re telling her your rent, I’m not sure how she’d know it’s more than her yearly mortgage. I think if anything, people from my hometown assume I’m not as successful as I actually am, because they see me living in a small apartment when they all have houses. The apartment costs 10x what their houses do, but I don’t tell them that, and they don’t know (they know NYC is “expensive” but I think a lot of them think that means a 1 bedroom apartment is $1000 instead of $500). I also tend to be deliberately vague about fancy things, e.g., I tell people I went on vacation, not that I went to Hawaii. Obviously I’m truthful, and if they say “Where’d you go?” I say “Hawaii,” but I find that being vague at first is less off-putting to the people who don’t care and don’t want to follow up. (Although be smart about this, and do it because you’re genuinely trying to brag less not more. There’s nothing more annoying than “Where did you go to college?” “In Cambridge, Massachusetts.” Ugh, just say the school’s name!)

      1. In my world most people who just state the city of their college went to the less prestigious institution in that city – and usually they went there because it was better for them, so I hate that they feel they can’t own up to it.

    7. Unless you were acting like some of the old partners I worked with (saying things like “oh I can’t believe you flew coach to Europe!” — uhh, my pay grade is missing a 0 compared to yours, fellow)… or that, as Anon said above, you lack perspective on your own position (which, from the above, it doesn’t sound like you’re oblivious)… what an odd comment. What was the context?

      1. OP said above that it was her husband giving irrelevant financial advice to the cousin’s parents that sparked her to gently say that it wasn’t workable for farming situation.

        1. ok I posted before the financial advice part was added — I agree that does sound out of touch UNLESS it was expressly requested. And the fact that the OP doesn’t realize that she and her husband ARE in the 1-2% makes me think there’s more to the story.

      2. Ugh, that sounds like my parents. They never even flew first class until I was out of college and they were in their mid-50s, but now they do it all the time and act like they can’t imagine anything else. They had to fly coach recently and I heard about it for a A YEAR. Um, guys? You did this for half a century without complaint.

    8. Why does she know the exact value of your rent, engagement ring, yearly bonus, and wedding cost? If you told her, there’s your answer. If she’s just guessing based on perception, then she is either a) jealous (likely) or b) trying to hint to you that you’ve said things about your lifestyle that others are finding out of touch.

      1. Yes, exactly. I agree that tensions can run high and even if your husband’s advice was well meaning, it might have seen out of touch or simply irrelevant without expertise in farming in that area. I am still confused how she brought up the cost of your engagement ring, wedding, mortgage, size of your bonuses, etc.

    9. I think as long as you are self-aware and not making comments like “my cook made us the best dinner last week” or “so glad we have a housekeeper” when you see someone else’s messy house, this is a cousin issue not a you issue.

    10. How does she know how much any of these things cost? That to me is the weird thing. I don’t go around talking about how much my wedding cost or the amount of my bonuses.

      If she’s asking, stop answering.

      1. +1. I can see discussing rents/mortgages with people you know well, but even my best best best friends don’t know the value of my engagement ring or wedding, and I don’t know theirs. Certainly I don’t discuss the cost of those things with husband’s relatives. We can (and do) all make guesses in our heads, but this throwing around of actual dollar amounts seems very unusual (and tacky). If she asks, especially for the ring or wedding where it’s in the past, just say politely that you don’t remember the exact amount.

      2. This stood out to me too. My sister and I have discussed rents/mortgages because she lives in the SF area and our discussions are along the lines of “waaah I’ll never be able to afford to buy!” which is fine? But even so I have no idea what her e-ring cost, what her wedding cost, etc. Why would I?

        I think that if someone asked me about costs of those things, I’d deflect a bit: “how much did you spend on your wedding?” “we lucked into a great deal renting out a brewery because they were brand new and we were one of their first customers! and it was so fun! have you ever had their beer?”

        1. Oh my gosh, no need to deflect!

          “How much did you spend on your wedding?”

          “OMG I can’t believe you are asking that! Totally not telling!”

    11. This is all ame data but I grew up in NY (outside the city) and lived there my whole life until we moved to the suburbs of DC about ten years ago. I’m not sure out of touch is the right word but I definitely think some NYers (especially those who are well off) have some hubris about being NYers/live in a bit of a bubble, especially when it comes to the Midwest/South, or military service.
      My parents moved to the Midwest after I graduated from college, and their NY friends were truly horrified – they made so many ignorant comments to my parents about moving to “the cornfields” and basically couldn’t understand that my parents were moving to a suburb that was as nice (or possibly nicer) than the one in NY. My parents’ NY friends are educated, well-traveled (in foreign countries) people but most of them have only spent time on the East and West coasts…and to note, very few of them have bothered to visit them in their new home because “there’s nothing to do there,” even though they are 15 min from a mid-sized city.
      In my experience in DC, I met so many more people from diverse backgrounds and from all over the US. We recently moved back to NY and I do sometimes think of my friends here as being pretty judge mental/narrow minded about anyone/anything that is not NY.

      1. I went to college with a lot of people from New York (and the surrounding area) who had this kind of viewpoint- many of them seemed to think that going to collkege in another major american east coast city was plenty of time to expand their worldview, and promptly moved right back to “the greatest city in the world”

        I even had a boyfriend in college ask me to try to name one thing that you couldnt get in new york that’s as good as or better than anything else in the world. I have visited many times and I think its a wonderful place, but I also have seen a lot of people refuse to acknowledge the greatness of any other place in America (besides Cali of course, they all are dying to go to Cali, and god, I hate it when people call it Cali and not California)

      2. There are plenty of Londoners who are just the same. Which is why I’ve moved to Scotland.

      3. Yes! I love New York, adored my decade there, but New Yorkers can be incredibly provincial. It drives me nuts, because they cloak their provincialism with this gloss of “Why would you ever go anywhere else because it’s so amazing here!” But the underlying sentiment is simple, closed-minded provincialism, no different from provincialism in a small town or outlying province.

    12. So, someone out of the blue said this to you? Think back… Was there a discussion that this grew out of.

      If so, ask yourself if something you were doing/saying seemed out of touch, or judgemental. Maybe a political discussion…..

      Since it is family, I would try hard to keep these bonds strong. Your lives are so, so different from most of us….but that in itself doesn’t make you out of touch. Think…

    13. I wouldn’t phrase it as being “out of touch” but living in NYC in a doormanned building with the other ammenties you mentioned, while being normal for a certain class of socio-economic strata in NYC, is NOT the norm for anywhere else (stateside.) In fact, it is like another world. And it is perfectly ok to occupy one or both or neither reality.

    14. I came from a low-income, rural, insular area – when we go back, we regularly hear comments like “people who spend more than $75K on a house are just insane, the materials can’t be worth that much!!!” and “that bar thinks it’s high class, charging $4 for a beer! a beer!”

      I spent my entire youth there, and I still sometimes feel out of touch. Like I get upset about not being able to afford a once-a-month cleaning service, then remember most of my high school friends can’t afford a dinner out at Applebees. (Which they have to drive an hour to get to.) I’m not in the 1%, but we make 6 figures combined, so we might as well be to them.

      To me, this is true tolerance and empathy – understanding that there are very different realities for everyone you know, and thinking through how life impacts them. Like when you’re forming your political or religious or whatever opinions, you take other “realities” into account.

      1. “To me, this is true tolerance and empathy – understanding that there are very different realities for everyone you know, and thinking through how life impacts them. Like when you’re forming your political or religious or whatever opinions, you take other ‘realities’ into account.”

        This. I live in a conservative suburb among a lot of people whose world view is, shall we say, quite provincial. These are not 1%-ers by any stretch of the imagination, and they are definitely out of touch with the real world. I don’t think any of them has ever met a poor person. Many have rarely traveled outside of the state. On a recent field trip to the art museum (which is 10 miles away and does not charge admission), I learned that one of the moms had never been to an art museum before. The school counselor loves to tell a story about the time she asked the kids to name a college where they thought one of their teachers might have gone and my daughter kept coming up with out-of-state colleges, which was hilarious because why would she think anyone would ever go to college out of state? They go about their lives without thinking of anything beyond their perfectly homogeneous little reality.

    15. I didn’t read through all the responses but if you make $500k a year and your net work is less than $1.5M you’re an idiot. Seriously what would you be spending that much money on….

      1. OP noted a wedding that cost as much as the cousin’s house and expensive vacations – so that’s probably where it went.

        1. That might be what you’re spending it on but OP was pretty clear that they have expensive tastes.

      3. Depends on how many years out of school they are. More than 10 years out and I would agree with you.

      4. Uh — it’s called math, judgy person.

        Let’s say you’ve been out of law school for four years, and have made a combined income of $500k. That puts you at $2 mil. Ok.

        But wait — in NYC, approximately half of that goes to taxes. So, there’s $1 mil.

        And then there’s housing in NYC. Average 1 bedroom in Manhattan is about $3000/month. AVERAGE. Many people I know pay much more. So, that’s, say, $150K in housing over 4 years.

        So now we’re at $850k. But that doesn’t include living expenses, medical expenses, food (in NYC), law school debt. So — yes, even if you make $500k, your savings are going to be FAR LESS than $1.5 mil. This doesn’t make you an “idiot.”

    16. Yes. Every time I go back to my hometown or visit my husband’s family. They live in very nice Midwestern suburbs, and we live in NYC (both biglaw, Brooklyn, doorman, cleaning woman, nanny). With my college friends I don’t notice it much, but with my SIL/BIL I do. They drive everywhere. They have a playground across the street but they bought a swingset so that their kids never leave their yard. They never go into the city. They don’t know their neighbors. Their house is enormous and cost half of what our apartment cost. One of them works less than 40 hours a week (nurse), and one barely works at all. They cannot understand how or why we work 50-70 hours a week. I wouldn’t swap lives for anything, but it’s a complete culture shock every time I’m there.

      1. I hear you. But remember this…. the only life you know right now is your own. That is the only life you can really imagine. You have no idea how you would be or what you might be doing if you lived in their environment. The fact that you use such extreme words like “wouldn’t swap lives for ANYTHING….. complete culture SHOCK….” is disappointing, because you are at risk for judging, being close minded, and alienating family.

        Most of us can make it work in many environments. And most of us are missing out in something important in life by making the choices we do. Including you. Be careful….

        1. I think that’s exactly what Nancy P. was saying – that there are lots of ways to have a nice life but those differences – even between very nice lives! – can create some culture shock. Just because she acknowledges the culture shock doesn’t mean that she’s judging or alienating family – I tend to think that was too harsh. We have to be able to talk about these differences. And I wish I had a dime for every time someone came to visit me in NY and said “I can’t understand why you work so many hours or how you could EVER live in such a TINY apartment! Eww!” (Okay, the “eww” was implied.) Just saying that the differences are real and acknowledging them doesn’t mean we have to judge them.

          When I lived in NY, my sister used to tell me that it was like I was still in college – I lived in an apartment with a superintendent, never did home repairs, outsourced the laundry, never drove anywhere, had a cleaning lady, didn’t have a car, got food delivered. I think for some people, the life of NY lawyers, including all that outsourcing, just seems unreal, or like you are not a “real adult” yet. I miss that! (I’d gladly not be a real adult yet!)

      2. Fwiw, my husband and I live in “Midwestern suburbs.” We both work full-time as do all almost all neighbors. We know and our friendly with many of our neighbors. We earn six figures and have a cleaning service and will have a nanny when we have children.
        I get that life in the suburbs is different than life in the city and certainly we are not going out to fancy dinners and to the theatre every night, but there’s a lot of stereotyping about both the Midwest and suburban people in your comment that I’m not sure is even grounded in reality.

    17. My first thought — why on earth are you and your husband telling how much your rent is, how much debt you do/don’t have, how much household help you have, bonuses, ring price, wedding price etc. WTH!? I am from a “similar” situation in that I am from a regular middle class family and then went into biglaw — so I started off earning more than my dad and all my other relatives made at retirement – even though they are white collar professionals too, just not in law or finance where the salary scales are higher. I ALWAYS downplayed. My parents have an idea but even they don’t get specifics. But random family members — no way I’m telling them I live in a $2600 apartment bc then it leads to how I can afford that which leads to a salary discussion that I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE.

      I’m also careful when I talk about my current govt job as a “downgrade” bc while it is true that I make less than I did as a biglaw senior — it is still more than family members made at retirement and it is still on the (low end) of the biglaw associate scale. I frankly feel more comfortable with them thinking – oh she’s in the gov’t with her nice 80k job.

    18. Have you done the PBS quiz on “Do you live in a bubble?” It’s based on the same kind of premise, but goes beyond income/wealth and related to a recent book. It asks some really interesting questions and for me, the answer was kind of yes, I do live in a bubble:) Figure the link will get stuck, but you should be able to find it easily online.

    19. “(I understand that my husband and I have it good compared to many other people outside of New York but don’t have millions in the bank are not part of the 1%)”

      OP, you also have it really good compared to many other people in New York. It just happens to be the case that the relatively few people who have it “better” than you are concentrated in your city v. smalltownville.

      1. THIS. I feel like people always say “But I’m not rich by NYC standards!” and I get that NYC is way more expensive than Kansas and so you may have a lot less buying power in NYC than you would with the same income in Kansas. But the median income in NYC is about $50k. You are “rich” anywhere, by any definition.

        “So, as an econ writer, it’s usually a somewhat strange experience when I get into conversations here about class. If I mention that a six-figure salary counts as rich in much of the country—that just $250,000 gets you into the top 2 percent—the response is usually, “Sure, but that’s not New York rich.”

        Except, it sort of is. While working on my column today about what counts as rich in America, I pulled a bit of Census data to compare income in New York City and the entire United States. The greater New York metro area may be home to an enormous share of the country’s 1 percenters, and it’s certainly a magnet for exorbitant, plutocratic wealth. But in the city itself, the basic income curve isn’t that exceptional. In the entire U.S., according to the Census, about 22 percent of households earn six figures. In NYC, it’s about 25 percent.”

        from http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/08/29/income_distribution_of_new_york_city_what_does_it_take_to_be_rich.html

  10. I have a final round interview with an MBB tentatively scheduled, although I can also do it a week later. I’m tempted to pick the later option since I think I could use the time to prepare and rest a bit. But I’m concerned that I’ll be at a disadvantage if I do that, and most of the spots could already be filled for that office before I interview. Is this a thing? Should I commit to the earlier date?

    1. If MBB is anything like Biglaw, treat it as rolling admissions — earlier is usually MUCH better.

      1. I don’t think a week matters though. Sure, you don’t want to pick an interview time slot that’s two months after everyone else, even if it were an option. But (at least in my law firm) there’s no way we’d extend an offer when we have several other candidates coming in over the next 10 days. Big Law hiring usually moves pretty slowly anyway, so they wouldn’t even be in a position to make an offer to someone a week after the interview.

        1. Maybe it varies by firm, but for the summer associate intake process at my old firm, the hiring committee met weekly and called people with verbal offers immediately afterward. So a difference of a week could mean you’re vying for one of the, say, 3 remaining spots out of 10, vs. the remaining 6. Not to mention that a subset of the spots are for litigation vs. transactional, etc. I’m not sure if there’s the notion of subsets for MBB but… timing may well matter.

  11. In relation to yesterday’s post about personal style, I could use some help developing mine. I like the idea of having a funky menswear-inspired look, but with a strong side of femininity as well (i.e., something like trousers in a classic cut but with a scarf or something to balance it out – Amelia Earhart is a historical figure who pulled this look off well). I don’t want to be TOO funky since I’m at heart a classic, quiet person, but I want to get away from the crappy too-tight, too-low women’s pants styles and ultra-thin, polyester tops that are currently available at mainstream stores. Does anyone have any ideas for style blogs or places to look for inspiration on this vaguely defined aesthetic? Also, I would LOVE recommendations for functional clothing – I need shoes I can walk in and jackets with pockets!

      1. :) You never know when you’re going to see style you like in a historical icon!

        1. Hah, true. I was just giving myself a pep talk this morning and telling myself my hair looks like Katharine Hepburn’s rather than “a hot mess”, which is what I usually say. It’s fluffy and curly, but hey, it worked for good ole Katharine. Who, btw also had a funky menswear inspired look sometimes.

    2. Love mixing menswear and feminine items. Search for “dapper” on Pinterest and go down the rabbit hole from there.

    3. I clicked on one of the Friday links to the blog Putting Me Together. Her style does not sound like what you are going for, but she has some tips for developing style. The most useful one, I think, is pinning images and pieces you like. Then you’ll start to see similarities and get an understanding of what you want to go for.

    4. Google Esther Quek – her style is an absolutely amazing mix of menswear and feminine elements. Just stunning.

  12. Any apartment hunting tips? I’m in a MCOL area, but the rental market is really tight right now. Apartments in desirable areas are definitely going within 24 hrs of being posted. I don’t have any problem being decisive and taking an apartment if I like it, but so far the problem has been finding suitable offerings in my budget. Any good sites, craigslist tips, or anything else that works? I only got my current unicorn apartment because I got on a waitlist for 4 months. Hoping that this time I can get a little more space without it being so long and painful.

    1. I should also say, I want to adopt a dog and that’s also making it much more difficult. Especially since I don’t have one yet, it’s hard for the new landlord to meet mine and determine it’s well-behaved, etc.

      1. Re: dog. Just find a place that doesn’t expressly ban dogs and don’t say anything. You can ask about pets generally. This is actually a good situation. You don’t have a dog –> happy landlord; you get a dog later –> oblivious and still happy landlord.

        As far as tips – I assume you are looking on your own and not interested in a broker (otherwise my tip is find a great agent!). One thing to know – at least in NY – lots of shady agents list fake apartments and then when you call about it, they say “ooh, just rented, let me show you something else.” If a fee is involved, be on the look out for that.
        More important: have all your paperwork with you, along with a blank check for any credit check fees so you can go for something as soon as you see it.
        Ask your friends and neighbors. Maybe even post on FB. We’re probably moving soon (I hope) and if i knew someone was looking, I’d definitely give them a heads up about our apartment and tell our landlord to rent to friend.
        Also: can you wait a month or two? Market tends to be more competitive right now than it will be a bit later in the year because more people are moving for school and work now.

        1. I can wait. I’m on month-to-month right now. I’m considering working with my existing landlord and seeing if I can move to one of their sister properties but they are completely neurotic about their apartments, so I’m hesitant to try and have a dog in any of their properties, even after I sign a new lease. (My current lease is full of really particular stipulations that are probably unenforceable about having to have rugs to protect all the hardwoods, the many ways I’m not allowed to touch the walls, etc). Are you suggesting getting a pet friendly apartment and then mailing them the fee whenever I get the dog, or just not telling them? For a couple of reasons (their neuroticism) I don’t think I could hide one for very long. I put up with them though because they’re under market rate and in an awesome location.

          1. I think working with your current landlord is a good idea. If you’re on a month to month, I’d also wait till late fall/winter. We found our last two apartments in February, both were below market rent. It’s annoying to go looking in bad weather but that also means much less competition.

            For the dog, the way I see it is if pets are allowed, they’re allowed. If a building requires an extra deposit/fee, you just mail it in. If it’s case-by-case, I would just bring it up when you are ready to get one with the understanding that it may be an issue. Not sure how it is, where you are, but in NYC most buildings just allow or don’t, sometimes with restrictions on size. Ours allows and I certainly didn’t bother telling our LL about our puppy when we got him. But he did chew up some corners when he was little and so I will make sure to fix those before we move out so it doesn’t come out of our deposit.

          2. Thanks AIMS. I did call my current landlord this morning to ask about the general pet policy (from an office phone so they wouldn’t know it was me–I felt very much like my namesake) and they said it all comes down to the head landlord’s discretion. But she did mention that a dog under 20lbs probably wouldn’t be an issue (score!).

      2. Unless it’s a commercially managed building (where there are standard rules about dogs/etc.), your best bet re: renting with a future dog in mind is going to be either already having the dog for the potential landlord to meet, or being in the apartment for a year or two, building up a good relationship with the landlord, and then asking to bring a dog in. In my area, at least, most small landlords (i.e. renting an apartment in their own house, or they own one three-family building or something) do not, up-front, have a blanket policy allowing pets, because bad pet owners are expensive tenants, especially when you’re not averaging that cost out over dozens or hundreds of apartments the way a commercial landlord can.

        1. +1

          I had lived in a place for a year and then wanted a cat so I gave notice to the LL that I’d be moving to 1. get a cat, and 2. lower rent, and they decided to waive their no cats policy for me and also lower my rent because I was a great tenant :).

    2. Are there brokers or agents who assist with this in your area? I don’t rent but I have a few friends who used real estate agents to show them rentals and it worked out quite well for them.

    3. Check Craigslist twice a day.

      Walk around the neighborhood you want to live in. Look for For Rent signs put out by private owners. Walk up to buildings that don’t have signs
      , look for phone numbers of management companies / supers / talk to people there if you can find them and ask.. “anything opening up soon? I’d love to live here….”. Dress decent and make a good first impression!

      1. +1 hubs and I dressed nice and walked around our desired neighbourhood. We wrote down the numbers from the sides of the little 4-10 unit walk ups and called them. Lots of them don’t even use the internet. It’s a bit annoying (PAPER CHECK?!? no direct payment) but its also a great way to get a unit with less competition, and lots of them tended to be heritage buildings in mint condition, none of this laminate poor quality stuff.

        1. I’ll need to do that! I nearly kicked myself because I was driving through a great neighborhood this morning and saw a for-rent sign. I should’ve pulled over and written it down!

        2. Yes….

          Often from the outside of a building you can imagine what some of the apartments will be like. In the major cities I have lived in, I look for pre-war buildings well maintained with interesting exterior architectural touches. That’s where I am rewarded with beautiful aged hard wood floors, spacious closets and pantries, vaulted ceilings and built-ins. If you are lucky, sometimes there are some heating/cooling updates, but not always. This is more my style. It is shocking to me how poor quality new construction is and how “luxury” buildings popping up in my cities often had small, industrially designed units with poor closets, tacky surfaces and few stylish touches.

          And one day, I am going to move into the beautiful apartment building dotted with gargoyles I have had my eyes on for years, and I’m aiming for the unit with turret that reminds me of my dream apartment in Paris.

  13. Not a fan of this dress for work, although I’d definitely wear it for a non-work event.

  14. Question for those with ACS student loans. I recently paid off 3 of my smaller loans, reducing my monthly payment by about $150. I’d like to continue paying the old, larger amount toward the principal of my existing loans but can’t figure out how to do that on their s*te. The one customer service person I spoke to wasn’t too clear on how to not make it just prepay the next month. I know I should call back and try someone else but thought I’d ask here first. Thanks!

    1. ACS is a nightmare. They do this to screw you. After years of problems (including them repeatedly not taking the money or giving me credit for electronic payments that I received confirmation emails for) I consolidated and switched to another lender. I wish I’d done it sooner. It took three months and several emails and phone calls to completely close out my accounts. If you’re in a position to do so, I recommend switching.

      1. I had the same experience. Was so happy when the loan was sold and the servicer changed to Mohela.

      2. This. ACS is the worst. I finally decided just to suck it up and pay mine off to stop deadline with them. I will say, in their very mild defense, I was expecting the payoff process to be awful based on everything I heard, but they actually did credit that correctly and immediately and I didn’t have any issues.

        1. Mine was somewhat frustrating for the 3 loans I paid off. I used a different bank account than usual so something didn’t click even though they said the payment went through; they then emailed me that it didn’t. Took forever to fix. People in customer service were no help till I got a supervisor state-side. All in all, very anticlimactic – I thought I’d feel so good having paid off 3 loans and instead it just dragged out forever. They are still listing them on my account with $0.00 owed. Ugh.

          I may try to refinance just to get away. But we’re trying to buy a place now and our mortgage person said not to do anything until after we get our financing in place.

  15. In reference to yesterday’s post about curvy fit pants, I received some pants I’d ordered from BR Factory yesterday and really like them. They’re the Jackson fit, which fits my curvy bottom half well. Plus they’re lined, which will be great for winter (though not so much for hot and sticky Texas fall right now!)

    1. Liking Talbot’s cury fit flare jeans myself…their trousers are not that way … even though curvy. Instead they are miles wide in the waistband. Strange. Frustrating.

  16. Out of curiosity, can we talk about profanity in the workplace – how much you hear it, whether it’s considered “professional,” etc.?

    We’ve been watching some premium cable shows lately, and one thing that bugs me about them is the constant use of the f-word. It’s not that it offends me so much as the fact that it just doesn’t ring true to me and feels unnatural. I’ve certainly known some people who curse on a constant basis, but they’re pretty few and far between since I entered the professional world, and I definitely get the impression that a constant R-rated vocabulary in the workplace would be seen as unprofessional. (Most of my workplaces have been more akin to the prestige basic cable programs, with only an occasional PG-13 word thrown in, often in a hushed voice.) But then it occurred to me that most of these shows take place in New York, and maybe what’s unusual in the South is normal there. So, I’m curious what others’ experiences are. How do you (or do you) use profanity in the workplace yourself? Do you think it varies by region (FWIW, my New Jersey relatives definitely have fouler mouths, but they’re largely not professionals.) Do gender norms play a role?

    1. My professional offices have all have ample use of profanity, and they’ve been composed of folks from the NE to Mountain West to Californians, though we all live on the East Coast now. I use profanity a lot. I find it to be useful.

      1. seconded. obviously not in court or depositions, but I don’t hesitate to use the f word. neither do many people I work with.

      2. Tons of profanity, mostly in small internal meetings. NYC, so maybe it’s regional, but this has been true every place I’ve worked in NYC.

        Personally, I adore using it in the right moment. As a woman, being able to hang with the boys is valuable, and tossing off a well-placed “clusterf*ck” or “sh1tstrom” confers serious cred.

      3. I and my colleagues use the F word multiple times a day in the office. Just never on the record, of course.

        1. and our clients too. In meetings with us. This is totally normal around here.

    2. F is pretty common in Philly, though I’d say it’s more in small-group de-brief type discussions (like, why the F did so-and-so admit that?!) rather than in formal meetings. As usual men drop it at random (depending on the man they will then apologize to the delicate flower ladies nearby), but if a woman does so it’s like “whoa emotions!!!”

    3. In Toronto, Canada, and yes, we use profanity in work discussions fairly frequently. There are a couple female partners I know do not like swearing, and so I moderate with them (no f-word, but definitely things like he is an a$$hole, oh sh!t, etc.). With associates, and certain partners, I swear freely and so do they. It is usually when we’re angry about something (opposing counsel is f-ing lying to me or just an exclamation of f!) and we don’t swear with clients, directly to opposing counsel or external people.

      1. I’d say this varies by office culture. East Coast Canadian govt office – very little to no swearing unless something really bad happens (lose major appeal we expected to win).

        1. Yes, friends and SO in government tell me it is less appropriate to swear and yell in an angry voice at someone. I’m in biglaw so if a partner wants to tell ME I’m a f-ing idiot, no one cares.

          1. I worked in government offices (different levels from municipal to federal) in and around Toronto for more than five years. Swearing in meetings or professional discussion was completely unheard of and would not have been acceptable. It would’ve been viewed as disrespectful/aggressive and contrary to the code of conduct. I am now working in a government office in Ottawa and the same goes. I’m happy about it, actually.

          2. The reason why I say I’m happy above is because I personally do not find profanity to be professionally acceptable. I think a little bit in the right context would be okay (small meetings between colleagues who know one another well), but I imagine it’d be hard to reign in if it’s part of your office culture and might start being used in less appropriate contexts (larger gatherings to discuss specific projects). Also, I find profanity can be kind of lazy sometimes and that my communication is better when I’m forced to refrain.

      2. Also Toronto here and among the lawyers/staff there is a healthy use of colourful language, mostly innovative descriptions of opposing counsel.

      3. In every law firm and professional office I’ve worked in in Southern Ontario, there is a ton of profanity. It’s never directed at anyone in the office, but a useful means of venting frustration with opposing counsel and sometimes clients. I consider it normal.

    4. I think you live in a place this NYC gal would call a large town in the middle of nowhere right? Like, TN/KY ish?

      Yeah, your reality is different. I live in Jersey, I work in NY. People curse all the time. It isn’t viewed as unprofessional. Not really at each other but about things.

      2. Eh, I’m in your “middle of nowhere” like TN/KY, and we curse all the time. It’s probably a little different because I’m in criminal law, and we deal with a lot of transcripts/recordings of jail calls, surveillance, etc. that often includes the actual crime (drug buy, prostitution sting, etc.), so you can imagine the language involved sometimes. Perhaps as a result, when we talk to each other in my office, there’s a lot of F’ing used as an adjective, particularly. I generally resent the condescending assumption that our reality is different because you’re in NYC. If anything, your reality is different.

    5. I work in the South, but no one in my office is from the South. There is virtually no profanity used in the office. I would like to hear (and feel free to use) a little profanity once in a while when the situation calls for it. It doesn’t necessarily have to be the f-word, but at least the s-word. It would be refreshingly honest. Right now I feel as if I am crossing a line when I say “effing” or “cr@p.”

    6. I have worked as an attorney in 3 federal government offices in DC. The first had no cursing at all. The others have moderate amounts. I think it’s very office dependent. The non-cursing office was headed by a dude. The women did/do plenty of cursing in the cursing offices.

    7. I’ve worked in law firms in CA and in the Midwest (outside a major city). In California, a$$hole and bullsh!t were common (orally, not in writing, and internally only – never to clients or opposing counsel) but I can’t recall much if any use of the “f’ word (although it wouldn’t have scandalized me at all, so it’s possible I’m just forgetting). In the Midwest, I don’t think I really ever heard profanity. But overall I much preferred the CA workplace. Profanity doesn’t bother me, especially if it’s directed to things, not people.

      1. Also just wanted to add that while no one said this to me explicitly, I very much got the sense at the Midwest firm that they were sort of cleaning up their language for me (I was the only female attorney at the firm) and that they used more colorful language when it was ‘just the boys.’ So that’s part of why I don’t mind or even appreciate hearing profanity – because when someone swears in front of me, I know they aren’t treating me differently because of my sex.

    8. Interesting stuff!

      One of the large counties nearby actually has an official court rule that absolutely no profanity can be used in the courtroom, even in quotes. As in, if you want to testify that the defendant said “I’ll f-ing kill you,” you must actually say “The defendant said ‘I’ll f-word kill you.'” I always thought that was funny.

      1. That’s not funny to me. It’s horrifying. Because how is the jury supposed to know if the defendant said “f-word” or said the actual f word? Maybe it doesn’t matter if you’re talking about someone on trial for mugging someone, but I can see there being employment cases where the precise language used is extremely important, and the idea that a witness can’t quote something profane they heard is just mind-boggling to me (I also think there’s a lot of sexism wrapped up in this, since people, especially older men, are concerned about offending a lady’s delicate sensibilities).

        2. Calling it horrifying seems ridiculously over the top. You can always ask further questions to specify what was actually said. I don’t know that there’s any sexism, since I presume that these rules were put into place when juries and attorneys were mostly men.

        3. This is how you try a sex harassment case without profanity in the deep south. Have the deponent write all the nasty comments down prior to depositions, and advise opposing counsel that you are not going to allow re-traumatization of your client by forcing her to repeat those words. Explain how they can question effectively using the exhibit. Then sit there while they threaten to call the very conservative Judge, and invite them to do so. They didn’t. At trial, make a nice big exhibit to use (and don’t leave it up the entire time, just for Plaintiff’s testimony and closing.) This only works if your client is a genuine southern lady who does not use profanity, and you have a conservative judge and jury, but it sure will work in the right case, and I have a verdict to prove it.

    9. It is extremely sparing in my office (other than the use of the term “a$$hole”, which is common…ah, biglaw), and thus highly impactful when used.

      (I’m in Atlanta.)

    10. My husband is in the army. When he was a very young officer, one of his commanders said in a briefing, with no trace of irony whatsoever, “You’re officers, so watch your f–ing language, and set a good f–ing example for your soldiers.” I regularly hear him say things like, “It’s a f–ing disaster, sir/ma’am.” Always cracks me up. My office, in the South, is the other extreme.

      2. My first professional experience was with a former Army officer who curses like a (soldier). I work with veterans. For the first 4 months or so, I tried to not swear during client meetings, and my clients responded accordingly- they didn’t swear, but they also didn’t tell me jacks*!t. One day, a client said the f-word and then apologized and I said “No it’s….wait. You haven’t been not swearing because of me, right? S*!t!” It clicked. The client opened up, and since then, if it calls for it, I use it.

        We swear at work all the time. I consulted with another unit today and the advice I got was to tell our client to “not f*** this up.” Verbatim. My boss once asked me for a concise summary of a case and my (embarrassing at the time, but it worked) first reaction was “He is so f**cked.”

    11. Judging from comments, looks pretty divided based on region. In my Midwest office, you only hear curse words said in hushed voices to close coworkers, and usually only in non-work related conversations. But our German partners won’t hesitate to drop an F in large conference calls.

      1. I’m in the Midwest, too. F_ck is usually reserved for venting sessions in closed-door offices. I’ve been in a couple of meetings where a few sh!ts and d@mns have flown, but those are rare.

      2. I do NOT use sware word’s in the office, but Frank does. The manageing partner does NOT but Madeline uses only a few. Lynn NEVER sware’s and that is good b/c she knows I do not either. The judge NEVER swares’s and he is the one that count’s. I am in NYC where alot of people sware in the street, but NEVER in court. I hope this is helpful. It may be different at BIGLAW, but not in boutique firms like mine.

    12. I am in the Silicon Valley. Profanity is profuse between associates. I work with some partners who don’t swear for religious reasons so I avoid swearing in front of them (but I have slipped) unless we are out of the office and they slip profanity into the conversation first.

      I have rarely heard any firm lawyers swear in front of clients, even if the client is dropping f-bombs.

      I really try to not swear in front of support staff. They just aren’t paid enough to have to deal with profanity in their workplace. If something does slip out, I apologize. My secretary laughs when I do this but she really shouldn’t have to put up with my potty mouth.

    13. I curse more in my personal life than I do at work, and use worse and more creative language, but I do curse at work.

      Maybe some people think it’s inappropriate, but I don’t care. I’m hardly the only one who does it. Though interestingly a counter-party form another company on a project I’m currently involved with has an incredibly foul mouth, and everyone at my company comments on it. I don’t want that to be the thing that people are constantly citing as my most memorable personality feature, so I’ve been trying to keep the cursing fairly minimal.

      1. My language is as salty as the sea and I struggle with it at work. As I noted above, profanity isn’t huge in meetings, but in one-on-one conversations, brainstorming, or venting, it’s more common. I have actually become known for my “alternative” swear word – it’s not f_ck, but it starts with the same letter.

    14. I despite profanity, never use it, and can’t stand to hear it. I never hear it in my office (DC). In my former job my boss swore constantly and I didn’t like it.

    15. When I was in NYC BigLaw, people swore constantly. I’m no longer in NY and have to really restrain myself.

    16. lawyer Midwest- so many cuss words. everyone does. Obviously time and place with clients who wouldn’t appreciate it but a lot of time useful to show youre a “bulldog” litigator to the clients.

    17. I think i is more of a regional thing. One of the biggest work-related changes I had to make when I moved from NYC was to not pepper my speech with profanities.

    18. Wow, this thread is entertaining.

      Doctor here. NEVER in my workplace have I heard language like this. Not in any hospital/clinic/laboratory etc..

      I guess we are a service industry and the possibility of a patient hearing you talk like this… ? Just, no way. These can be very high stress/high emotion/high stake environments, with a lot of patients on edge, and negative energy expressed by swearing would be a bad idea.

      I’m no prude, but the idea of having my bosses/colleagues swearing all the time around me would be pretty offensive, and potentially hostile. If you guys notice that some of your colleagues behave like this, while some others are oddly silent, I sympathize with the silent ones….

    19. I don’t think I could be a biglaw litigator and express my emotions without profanity. “Opposing counsel is really annoying me today” just doesn’t have the same ring to it as “eff that guy.”

      Most of the bad language I hear is between attorneys. More from partners than associates, and more from men than women. Mostly spoken, but one partner I work with uses a bad word in basically every sentence, written or spoken, including comments in word documents, whether he is happy, mad, or somewhere in between.

    20. I’m a petite young woman working as an academic surgeon. I definitely have a potty mouth in the OR and many of my male colleagues do as well. It’s effective.

  17. Has anyone tried Yoga Collective online classes? Living social has a deal of 6 months for 11.99 and thinking of trying it. I’m a beginner and haven’t done yoga in about 2 years so hoping this will get me back into it.

    1. I have and I really like it for supplementing my in-person yoga classes when I can’t attend my actual class (due to work or travel). There’s videos for varying levels and lengths, so if I’m pressed for time I’ll just do a 10 or 15-minute “class”.

      The $12 for six months is a decent deal but I saw a deal on groupon for $15 for an entire year with Yoga Collective a couple months ago.

    2. I got back into yoga this past year after an almost three year break. I am doing the FitStar Yoga app. It is $8 a month or $40 a year for access to the app. Best part (for me) is that you can use your own playlist and customize your class length.

    1. Agreed. I use it all the time. So do all other lawyers I’ve worked with. I have noticed that non-attorney staff do not use it and lawyers dont use it as much with staff

  19. Can I get some marriage advice? A few months ago, my husband experienced a traumatic event in our neighborhood. He was very shaken up by it and made some changes to his daily routine in response. One of the main reasons we moved here is that it is a very walkable area, but he doesn’t want to go out in the neighborhood anymore. I suggested that he seek some trauma counseling to deal with these feelings and researched some options for him. But he doesn’t want to do that and won’t explain why. Now he has just told me that he wants to move out of our town altogether. He wants to live somewhere that is not at all walkable, less convenient to transit, and much less diverse (racially, culturally, and socio-economically) than where we currently live. I’ve told him that it’s pretty upsetting that he would ask me to make such a big change that goes against the things that I value (that I thought we both valued) when he won’t even consider counseling to deal with his issues. He didn’t seem to budge on counseling. We have a toddler, so these decision are also about where we want to raise her. I’m willing to consider major changes, if that’s what he needs, but I feel like he should meet me halfway with the counseling. What’s our next step? This feels like a total impasse.

    1. Could you try couples counselling as a way to get him into counselling? Frame it as seeking help from a third party to work through the change in values and a big decision like moving.

    2. Can you agree to consider the move in 6 months if he goes to counseling in the meantime? I’d say it’s a fair compromise.

      1. This is good advice.

        I recently had a fairly traumatic experience – robbed in a public place in a non-violent way – and I’ve found myself fairly shaken by it. I’m jumpier than usual and quicker to anger. This may sound a little woo-woo, but I’ve gotten great help from a bodyworker trained in a modality called Brain Gym. We went through some exercises to clear the trauma from my body, and it has calmed me down. Not sure if your husband would be open to that, but I wanted to put it out there.

        1. I would suggest something called EMDR to help with trauma. It sounds a little out there but works really, really well.

          (I believe Brain Gym works with this idea.)

          1. Yes, I second this. I’ve heard great things about EMDR to deal with trauma.

            I think you’re well within your rights to say you won’t agree to such a drastic change in your family’s life unless and until he tries counseling first.

    3. Is your neighborhood actually safe? I think racial, economic, etc. diversity is all well and good but not at the expense of my safety or certainly my kid’s safety. If your neighborhood is perfectly safe, I agree he should go to counseling before moving. But if it’s really not all that safe, I think it’s perfectly reasonable for him to want to move now.

    4. To play devil’s advocate–if you have a toddler and your husband was assaulted? robbed? in your neighborhood, isn’t it reasonable that he would have safety concerns and be worried about raising his child there? His perspective deserves at least some understanding and consideration. If I were assaulted and my spouse told me just to go to counseling and get over it, I’d be furious.

      1. I agree. Flip the scenario and have a wife assaulted/mugged/attacked in her neighborhood, who then doesn’t feel safe and doesn’t want to raise a child there. We’d be pretty mad at the husband telling her that he didn’t want to move and she should just get counseling.

    5. I have extremely liberal family members who chose to live in a rough part of Philadelphia because they wanted their daughter to be exposed to people who weren’t white, well-off, privileged, etc. They were regularly mugged, their house was broken into numerous times and one time their car was stolen and returned full of bullet holes. My parents always commented that they were insane for not moving, especially because they had a child and were making decisions about her safety, not just their own. Sometimes you have to put your family’s safety above your values. I am on your husband’s side here.

      1. But this is a totally different scenario. Your example is multiple incidents of multiples different types of issues. The OP’s scenario is changing their entire lives because of one incident that her husband isn’t getting counselling for.

        Super surprised at everyone saying move when yesterday everyone was telling the apartment dweller who got robbed to basically get over it and stay in the apartment.

        1. Yes, multiple things happened to my relatives, which makes it more extreme than OP’s situation, but I would have moved after the first incident, especially if there was a child involved. Why is “get counseling” the answer to a violent crime when you have the resources to move to a better but potentially less convenient neighborhood?

          2. Because people don’t want their kids to grow up in a bubble or they don’t want to spend an hour commuting each way everyday and would rather spend that time with their kids. Multiple incidents is a whole other ball game.

            As Amy says – Good for you, not for me.

          3. I think she’s saying that the other isn’t really a “better” neighborhood, though – I think she’s saying that this incident was entirely unexpected/shocking given the type of neighborhood they live in (that’s how I’m reading it, at least). My brother and his wife live in a neighborhood that is beautiful, gut-wrenchingly expensive, and also highly walkable to shops, restaurants, etc. – there was a shootout on their street a few months ago. It was a huge shock – their neighborhood has virtually no crime (like, the biggest news on their Nextdoor site at one point was that some kid had drawn a p*nis on the sidewalk in chalk). So bad things can happen anywhere, even in the best neighborhoods. It sounds like folks are assuming that the references to walkability and diversity mean this is inherently a less-safe neighborhood, and that’s not necessarily true.

            I’m not sure I’d want to stay either, but ultimately, if the husband is experiencing PTSD or other lingering effects of trauma, moving won’t fix that. I think the OP needs to truly consider the move *and* that her husband needs to get counseling.

          4. I’m with cbackson – OP never said they live in a dangerous neighborhood. Also, we don’t actually even know what happened to husband. He may be reacting more irrationally or not.

    6. Is one of the things you value your husband not getting mugged? It seems from this retelling the he comes after cool neighborhood on your list of priorities. I doubt that is true, but maybe what he is hearing.

    7. Wow, OK. I am not at all unsympathetic to my husband’s concerns. We do not live in the hood. This is generally a very safe neighborhood. And our town is a big place with many other neighborhoods to consider. I have also suggested getting a car so he wouldn’t need to be walking around. I have in no way suggested that he just needs to get over it with counseling. Thanks for assuming that I am horrible, though.

      1. Oh please. No one is assuming you are horrible. What you wrote very much sounded like you weren’t taking his experiences into account.

        I think you need to keep trying. Suggest compromise neighborhoods. Ask that he go to counseling with you.

      2. Presumably your town has more than two neighborhoods. He doesn’t like your current neighborhood for what seems to me to be valid reasons. You don’t like his proposed neighborhood for valid reasons. Can you come up with a list of other neighborhoods and together weigh the pros and cons of each?

        1. She said they live in a generally very safe neighborhood. If that’s the case, I don’t know how valid his concerns are. Bad things can happen in safe places.

          OP, I think your post was vague for probably understandable reasons and people filled in a lot of blanks. I’d say maybe assuming the worst. Don’t take it personally.

          1. +1 bad things can happen in safe places.

            I was assaulted in a safe neighborhood in broad daylight, walking two blocks from my fancy private school to my neighbor’s house (the block happened to be empty except for me and rando predator dude) at 3pm. (20 years ago)

            I was also mugged at gunpoint 5 ft from my dorm’s gate while walking with a friend around 6pm.

            After the mugging, I was more mad that my sense of security was gone than the dollar that I gave the guy. I started taking the campus shuttle and taking further precautions after that.

            It took me some time to get back a sense of safety…

          2. Yep. I live in a safe, walkable neighborhood. A few weeks ago there was a shooting (late at night) literally around the corner from my apartment. Bad things can happen in safe neighborhoods too.

      3. OP, I think you’re getting a bit of an unfair pile-on, too.

        I don’t believe that simply moving is a great response. Bad things can happen anywhere. The after-effects of trauma don’t disappear just because you move. I agree that he definitely needs to speak to a therapist, and that issue should be separate from whether you’re willing to move or not. Are the police/prosecutor involved? They often have victim advocates who can provide/refer to counseling.

        1. Agree. Bad things can happen anywhere and everywhere. I think couple’s counseling to work through this issue or agreeing to revisit moving in 6 months if he gets counseling are fair, per commenters above. FWIW, I live in a very safe, diverse, mixed-income neighborhood that is nonetheless a couple blocks away from a transitional street, which in turn is a couple blocks away from a low-income area with a lot of crime, so I can relate to what y’all are going through–I would be shocked if a violent crime happened in my neighborhood, but it’s not completely out of the question either, and we get a small amount of the kinds of petty crime that you’d expect in any city.

      4. What are you basing the safe neighborhood determination on? As someone who is from “the hood,” it isn’t like there is “the hood” and then perfectly safe neighborhoods. There is a range, and a neighborhood being cool or affluent doesn’t equal safe.

        I had a similar experience as your husband. My ex insisted we live in a certain neighborhood in our city. It was an affluent neighborhood, but not necessarily safe. Property crime was very high and there were assaults/muggings on a fairly regular basis. Even after someone stole my laptop bag off my body right outside of our apartment building, and his car gotten broken into it, he refused to move. It was infuriating.

    8. It sounds like, from what you’re describing, that this incident was, in addition to being objectively traumatic, also shocking because you live someplace that you thought of as safe, so your husband (and you) are dealing not only with the incident itself, but with a sharp change in your feelings about your neighborhood. Correct?

      My experience is that many people have difficulty admitting that trauma lingers and doesn’t just pass with time. My guess is that your husband, in many senses, is still living in that traumatized moment, and that is making it hard for him to work through, rationally, what changes, if any, you all should make to how you live your lives in light of it. Moving may not make him feel safe, even though right now he feels like it should. My guess is that he’s thinking that if you all just move, all of the effects he still feels will go away, and that’s unlikely to be true.

      Someone above suggested that you offer to consider moving in 6 months, if he’ll consider counseling; I think that’s fair. You do want to emphasize that you’re not valuing the neighborhood over his safety/your child’s safety, but rather that it’s important to you that you all make that decision jointly and from a place of mental health, not as part of a fear reaction. It’s a delicate balancing act, but it’s important not to make him feel like his feelings are invalid – they feel entirely real to him even if they’re out of sync with the actual level of safety in your neighborhood.

      1. ” that you all make that decision jointly and from a place of mental health, not as part of a fear reaction.”

        This.

      2. 100% agreed. I might as well just co-sign all of cbackson’s posts from the past few days!

      3. Trauma does linger and it comes out in weird ways that are unexpected. I went through something that could have happened anywhere and the biggest thing I had to do in order to move on was to move.
        That’s all I’ve got.

    9. Home Goods and TJ Maxx sell ceramic bowls with plastic suction lids that you can use in the microwave. I bring soup to work often, and I’ve never had a leakage issue with them.

      If you are eating canned soup that doesn’t need a lid, I sometimes just bring the can and microwave it my bowl in the kitchen.

      1. This was wonderfully misplaced. It took me a couple seconds to figure out how ceramic soup bowls could be used for self-defense! :)

    10. I got followed for a block by an agressive panhandler last week, two blocks from my office, when there was no one else around. Towards the end of the block, there was a large man and I think that the man’s presence is what caused the panhandler to break it off. This is during the day, but not during rush hour or lunch, just when one side of a building was very lightly traveled by others.

      FWIW, I get where your husband is coming from. I do believe that you are safer in a crowd if bad stuff happens vs totally alone. Even one other person helps, as I am sure it did with me. So maybe a vote for your husband, but if you live alone in the country and your kid rides her bike on the road, a car may hit her and no one might ever see that to run for help. Or if she breaks down at night and the person who stops to help isn’t so nice.

  20. I want to bring soup to work (cubicle). Any recommendations for either a great thermos or an absolutely 100% leak-free container that can be heated in the microwave (ideally, that is sort of bowl shaped so I don’t have to actually transfer the soup into another container)? BPA-free?

    Thanks in advance!

      1. Those Snapware containers are *amazing*. I have some that are 5-6 years old and they still are completely leak-proof. (Lids are not microwave safe, however, at least on mine.)

    2. I bring soup to work! I keep a bowl in my office so that plastic isn’t an issue and I usually use a big mason jar to bring two days worth. It’s never leaked but I put it in a plastic bag just to be safe. I’ve also used plastic Tupperware. Seriously, it’s not hard, do it!

    3. Snapware glass bowl. I have never had one leak. The lid is plastic so I don’t microwave the lid.

      1. But Ikea has glass containers with plastic snap-on lids that are 1) bowl shaped, 2) glass, so no concerns about plastic leaching into your soup when you microwave it, and 3) don’t leak.

    5. Thanks, all! Seems like snapware is the consensus. And Anonymous, I feel you in re leakage in work bags…

  21. I know that for most of us it’s still mid 80s outside, so my question is a little early in the fall season – but my birthday is in about a month and I’m desperate for a new winter coat. Does anyone have any suggestions? I live in DC, so I’m walking about 15 minutes outside to metro, and then 5 minutes to office from metro station from there. I’d like something that I can wear to the office and not feel dowdy in, but also can wear to walk the dog or run errands. I’ve been looking at the LL Bean coats, but the reviews about bad zippers is putting me off. TIA!

    3. LL Bean coats are nice, but they tend to be boxy and didn’t work for me shapewise when I was trying them on last year. I ended up with a Land’s End coat, but if you’re looking for a longer down coat I would go with the North Face Gotham parka. That is the one I wanted, but the sleeves were too short for me. It was very well cut and very flattering.

      1. Long-term DC resident, but Massachusetts-raised, and I second the frumpiness concerns re: LL Bean coats. They were great for suburban-rural New England, but would look out of place in DC. I currently have an off-season-purchased Trina Turk knee-length black wool coat from Nordstrom Rack.

        1. DC resident here – last August, I got a beautiful wool/cashmere coat at the Talbots Clearance Store in Springfield, VA – a roughly $450 coat for $150. Their stock is hit or miss, but I love that my coat isn’t the ubiquitous J. Crew Lady Day Coat I see on multiple women every day. While I have an LLBean puffy coat as well, that’s really just for the very coldest of days. I feel much more put-together in a wool coat. With a scarf and gloves, I think you should be just fine in a wool coat.

  22. Going anon for this?

    Has anyone here done IVF before? My husband and I are in the midst of our first treatment and the hormones are making me so emotional. This is going to sound so dumb but I have been crying all morning because I had the thought I am fortunate enough to be able to afford as many cycles as I want/need, now and in the future and many others are not so fortunate. Then after I calmed down from that I lost it again because I got crumbs on the counter while I was making toast. Please tell me it gets better.

    1. Hi — Just wanted to say that I am going through my first cycle too, right now. Only a few days into stims so haven’t really reached the hormonal saturation point so I can’t comment on your question specifically, but just wanted to express solidarity.

      I will say that I cry pretty easily these days, but I think it’s less hormonal at this point and more just the 2 years of sadness/disappointment, along with a series of other personal tragedies. My triggers are still very much infertility/babies/illness related, but in a week or two I bet I am right where you are. Good luck!

      Also, on the offchance that you find online forums specific to infertility helpful, Reddit actually has a series of subs like r/infertility that are well moderated and full of people going through the same thing. I particularly appreciate that they’ve banned all the cutesy terminology that you’ll find elsewhere (baby dust, for instance – ew).

    2. I haven’t done IVF, but from my friends who have this is common.

      As for getting better… best case scenario is pregnancy. Which, for me at least, involves lots of crying. I believe today I have already cried because (1) I’m really tired and (2) I heard a happy song. I have become a grown-up version of the “reasons my son is crying” blog. I’m hoping it gets better once the kid is sleeping through the night?

      1. Respectfully, as someone who has experienced pregnancy hormonal crying, miscarriage hormonal crying, and IVF hormonal crying, the pregnancy hormonal crying was a wonderful feeling while it lasted (as was morning sickness). I’m not trying to minimize your experience or emotions while pregnant, but those who have gone through infertility & treatments may have a different perspective.

    3. Hugs. It gets better. The hormones seriously f with you. Plus the emotional aspect of going for all the monitoring and then trying to interpret how you’re doing while keeping a brave/normal exterior is very difficult. I also felt super foggy–making mistakes I cannot imagine making, etc.

    4. I have done it twice and am now waiting for a donor egg cycle. Neither of my cycles were successful, obviously.Please don’t take my experience as negative – IVF works for many many people and I had some serious challenges built in which made it an uphill battle. And if doesn’t work, well there are other ways to have a family. I too feel very thankful that we have the financial resources to go through two IVFs and pay for donor. I am also thankful for the science. Fifty years ago, we wouldn’t have this option.

      IVF is a rollercoaster of emotions – ASIDE from the hormones. At the various monitoring appointments, sometimes I would get a dr that would be all positive, and I would get my hopes up, and the next appointment would be a total let down (follicles not growing, didn’t see many follicles, estrogen lower than they wanted) and I would be defeated. We only made it to transfer once and only two Ok-ish embryos, and it didn’t take. I allowed myself to be sucked in to a lot of message boards and comparing myself to others who were a) much younger than me and (b) did not have my particular challenges (damaged ovaries). I wish I had stayed OFF the message boards while going through the process. It is what I am doing this time with the donor egg cycle – no message boards period. Yes, I’m talking about you babycenter.

      My other advice is to share with someone other than your DH. I initially did not, and it was a lot for my DH to handle being the sole sounding board for the minutiae of my hormones, etc. When I shared with a friend (who turned out to have her own fertility struggles), it really helped me to vent. My other advice is to be nice to yourself. I spent a lot of money on early morning cab rides to the monitoring sessions because I could just not deal with the 6:30 a.m. public transit. Waste of money yes but it made my life a lot easier. I also gave myself some leeway in life generally (if i didn’t want to go to the gym I did not, I ate that extra cookie, and so forth). With respect to the hormones, drink a lot of water. I found myself more thirsty than normal. I also found that when I got to the stage of taking progesterone, I felt much more “normal” if that makes sense.

      Wishing you the best of luck!

      1. This is all great advice. I second staying off the message boards, especially if you are not having a stellar response to stims. I also found acupuncture to be good for taking care of myself and hopefully it helped with the cycle.

        Best of luck w/your donor cycle, anon for this.

    5. I did quite a few cycles and agree with anon at 11:09 that the crying is largely because of the emotional impact of the treatment. After trying to get pregnant for so long, I felt like we were finally on our way. It only got worse as we went further along. Being bloated did not help. Good luck.

    6. Very normal. I felt insane just being on the pill before my first IVF cycle, and of course the IVF drugs didn’t help the situation. It’s an emotional roller coaster even without the drugs, and the drugs could make you feel very volatile even if you weren’t invested in the end result. Just be kind to yourself, and let a partner or friend/relative (if you’re being open with them) know that you realize you’re all over the place and need kid gloves, some hugs, distraction or whatever works for you. I had to get better at communicating how much I was feeling when I yelled at my husband after he sweetly brought me tea because there wasn’t enough hot water in the mug (and then I cried)….

      FWIW, I happen to then get hit with the crazy happy hormones post-partum that lasted through nursing, so part of the hormonal roller coaster can be quite nice.

      I found IVF to be very difficult, but it’s temporary, and I got a couple kids out of it :)

      Wishing you the best of luck!

    7. While I was taking all my shots, I became so violently hostile toward my husband. I was never actually physically violent, but I spewed angry, hateful words at him (sometimes only in my mind, but other times out loud). It was terrible. Once he upset me so much (I don’t even remember why now) that I was looking at him and I could tell that I had this look on my face that contained so much anger, hatred, and disgust. I actually thought to myself that I should leave him just to get away from him. That moment was the peak of extreme emotions for me. It was very surreal. Thinking back on it now, it was like my mind was taken over by an alien.

      1. This is why I thought colorblocking was going away, but maybe it’ll just stick around until the 2200s.

    6. Why specifically those organisations and not the IAAF?

      100% appropriate at my workplace too.

    7. In this color pattern, you’re not wrong. I have it in the grey/black/white color block and it’s professional/office appropriate, although I wouldn’t brief in it. My fiance did say the quilting was a bit Little-House-on-the-Prarie, but very figure flattering. Either of the solid-color dresses would be fine too.

    8. It would be totally appropriate at my work and I really like the style. And I don’t get the USOC reference at all…it’s not red, white and blue.

    9. I agree that the pictured color scheme isn’t ideal but the other three options look great, I think.

  24. What exactly does managing up mean? Like, if I got asked in an interview to talk about a time I did it successfully, what kind of story would that be?

    2. I would talk about working on a big project under someone who lacked organizational skills (find a nice way to say it so you’re not putting former ER down). How I essentially kept track of all deadlines, made sure other team members were moving on the project so it wasn’t a last minute scramble, and kept the supervisor apprised of everything/ran all critical decisions by him/her.

      I think a big part of managing up is doing the work the supervisor should be doing but is not because they suck/are too busy/etc. But they are still your manager so you can’t just cut them out of the picture and they need to be the ones making the big decisions (with your advice/suggestions).

    3. What an interesting interview question. I think this term can be used positively, or sometimes disparagingly (like brown nosing). A successful interview story would probably be something like, my boss asked for X. But I know from my experience, that maybe Y was better, so I used my super consulting and analysis skills to uncover what she was asking for versus what she really needed, and to get a better business outcome so we all looked like super stars.

  25. I just need some encouragement and advice. I’ve been looking for a new job for a few months and just haven’t landed anything. Work is awful and my boss is terrible. He is actively encouraging my colleagues to distance themselves from me and it is very tense lately. I’m considering going to HR but I know that won’t solve the situation in the long run. I’ve been applying to everything that I’m qualified for, but I’m in a very niche field in law (not a lawyer) and I’m having no luck. Has anyone hired a headhunter, or how have you found a new job? I’ve been networking but nothing has come up. I just have to get out of here. I’ve thought about quitting with nothing new lined up, as well as taking an easy low-stress job. My depression (treated with anti-depressants) and anxiety are through the roof. I’m not sleeping, exercise is almost impossible and I’m eating so much crap.

    1. A few months isn’t that long to be looking for a job. Last time it took me 6 and I have known people that have searched far longer. Especially if you’re niche.

      So, since you probably won’t be able to get out of your current toxic situation very quickly, go to HR. They may not do anything, but silence buys you nothing.

    2. I don’t believe jobs are worth giving up your health for, and while I think it’s foolish to quit with nothing lined up without even *trying* to look for a new job, if you’ve been looking for a while and haven’t landed anything, it may be time to give up and quit anyway (assuming you can swing it financially to be out of work for quite a while). Fwiw, I left a similar situation to take a low-stress non-law job (I was a lawyer), figuring out that it would pay the bills while I got my mental and physical health in order and geared up to job search aggressively. I ended up really liking the new job and deciding to pursue that field as my career. I got very lucky, but sometimes there’s a happy ending!

    3. 3 months is not a long time for a job search, especially in a niche field, so the fact that you’ve not landed a job yet doesn’t mean you’re not having any luck. You should speak with some recruiters (it’s fine to speak with multiple recruiters because they represent different employers rather than you) as they often are looking to fill jobs that aren’t advertised anywhere else. I’ve actually gotten most of my jobs from referrals in my network, so if you haven’t already, let people in your network know that you’re looking for another opportunity.

      In the meantime, I recommend seeing a therapist about your depression and anxiety, in addition to your medication. Your therapist can help you monitor your depression and anxiety levels, and help you decide if it becomes necessary for you to quit your job without another lined for health reasons. Your therapist can also help you work through the issues of your current toxic workplace, so that you’re not taking all that baggage to your new job. If you’re not covered under an insurance plan, I strongly recommend paying for therapy out-of-pocket if it’s at all possible. It was much, much easier for me to continue working in my toxic workplace while going to therapy, and I don’t think I would have been able to hold out until I found another job if I had just tried to white-knuckle it without help.

  26. I’ll be working from home starting next week and need a landline phone that will display incoming call #s, has conference and speaker capabilities, etc (basically, everything my in-office networked Avaya phone has except not a networked phone).

    Any recommendations?

  27. I’m probably stuck in no-man’s land before coffee break, but would like some travel advice. I learned yesterday that I’m going to Orlando for a work conference early next week. (Near SeaWorld!) How feasible is it to get around by Uber/ non-car alternative? Hotels are probably 3-5 miles from conference hotel. I will suck it up, be an adult and rent a car if I have to, but I don’t like driving and am concerned about a possible parking crunch at conference site. TIA!

    1. Whoops, sorry — accidentally posted this below:

      If you’re staying on/near International Drive, you should be fine — almost the entire road is a tourist area, so there should be plenty of transportation options. There’s also a trolley that runs the entire length of I-Drive, which may not be helpful for getting to the conference but might be useful in the evenings. (If you want to go downtown or to the Winter Park area, that’ll be a bit of a hike, but Uber should work for that.)

      Honestly, if you don’t like driving, I would recommend that you avoid it in the I-Drive area if possible. It is kind of a nightmare even at the best of times.

      FWIW, I go to a week-long conference in that area every year and never have a car.

      1. Checking back late – good to know, thanks! Will be staying on I-Drive, yay! I’m a city girl, and would be somewhat less happy if I wanted to walk out for a quick bite but the hotel was a soulless joint in the middle of nowhere. Conference location is not on International Drive, but I can deal with that.

  28. If you’re staying on/near International Drive, you should be fine — almost the entire road is a tourist area, so there should be plenty of transportation options. There’s also a trolley that runs the entire length of I-Drive, which may not be helpful for getting to the conference but might be useful in the evenings. (If you want to go downtown or to the Winter Park area, that’ll be a bit of a hike, but Uber should work for that.)

    Honestly, if you don’t like driving, I would recommend that you avoid it in the I-Drive area if possible. It is kind of a nightmare even at the best of times.

    FWIW, I go to a week-long conference in that area every year and never have a car.

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