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Thursday’s Workwear Report: Editor High-Waisted Trouser Flare Pant

A woman wearing purple pants, a purple top, and black sandals

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

As an elder millennial, I’ll never stop loving the Express Editor pants. This slightly updated version has a higher waist but still has the perfect flare that I loved in the early 2000s. (Don’t ask me why we were wearing business casual outfits to frat parties, Gen Z. It was just how it worked.)

This purple color really caught my eye, but they also come in black, blush taupe, and deep teal.

The pants are on sale for $48 (marked down from $80) and come in regular sizes 0-18, tall sizes 0-16, and short sizes 0-16.

Sales of note for 12.5

433 Comments

  1. My good friend wants to meet up in Vegas after a conference I am at there and go to spas, shopping, dinner and some nightclubs after for a couple of days. What does one wear for the nightclubs? I get Vegas conference dinners (at least in finance), but I dress primarily for a work event that is fancy/festive versus formal. What do I wear when there is no work element? Also, we are 50, so I want no whiff of mutton disguised as lamb. What would Helen Mirren do?

    1. great jeans. if you wear foxy shoes this is the time. a top with a little glass- if you are comfortable showing arms and cleavage go for it but otherwise a nice black top.

        1. So the old going out top with jeans is new again? That is great! I loved that look.

      2. Foxy shoes are basically pumps or something that has a heel but isn’t a work shoe? Would anything flat work or just wear the heels and sit as much as possible?

        1. yes. or something strappy. depending on the cut of the jean and your own style, i think a flat strappy sandal can look great with this kind of outfit. or probably even a plain boot… maybe a cute clutch? big earrings? have fun, and i wouldn’t worry about it. a club in vegas is going to have a huge range of ensembles.

      3. Can you get away with cool sneakers in Vegas clubs like all the Gen Z kids are wearing?

          2. A clog in Vegas Haha. I am reminded where Barbie chooses the pink heel instead of the Birks. In Vegas it’s pink heels!

          3. as a 50s year old woman, in Vegas, on work “vacation”…. I’d avoid sneakers unless you are incredibly hip/stylish.

      4. The last thing I’d wear in Vegas is anything other than comfortable shoes. You have to walk miles just to leave your hotel. OP, you see everything there, there’s no rules. I’m your age and personally I’d skip the clubs unless you want to feel absolutely ancient. I’d looks at doing spa things during the day, going to a nice dinner, seeing a show, getting cocktails in a lounge (tons of these). And I’d wear whatever felt right to me for going out. But I’d pair my outfit with sneakers.

        1. Seriously. I was much younger than you at a work event in Vegas going to the clubs 10 years ago and I’ve never felt so old.

        2. Ain’t that the truth! I feel like I should wear a pedometer because the number of daily steps to something just next door extends into the thousands.

        3. I am 45 and my friends and I stopped going to Vegas clubs years ago because everyone else in them is in their early 20s and you can’t help but feel out of place. Sorry to say this to OP but – it’s always painfully obvious when there’s a group of Women of a Certain Age in the club trying to act like they’re 24 again and still hot enough to attract the attention of younger men, when actually, it’s just kinda weird and those women seem kinda desperate and out-of-place. You and I are old enough to be the parents of most of the people who go to clubs in Vegas. We had our time to party in the club, and now that time is gone, and we should be smart enough to realize that.

          There are tons of lounges and bars (which are different from clubs) in Vegas where you can sit and have a drink and have a nice time, without listening to the OONTZ OONTZ OONTZ music that’s so loud you can’t hear anyone talk, and watch girls wandering around mostly not dressed, and pay $30 for a well cocktail. The lounge at the Peppermill restaurant is awesome (although get there early; it gets packed), as is the tiki bar in back of the Casa di Amore restaurant. The Golden Tiki is another great bar/lounge. I would stay away from places like Hakkasan, Tao, Omnia, etc. If you want to go to Drai’s, stick with the restaurant. There are tons of ways to have a great time in Vegas without being the weird grandma-age person who is trying to fit in with the club kids.

          1. Aw man! I didn’t realize they closed the restaurant at Drai’s. That used to be a great place to have a nice meal and hang out and people watch.

          2. People watching in Vegas is one of my favorite things to do. “Lounging” may be more your speed than clubbing.

          3. OP – Listen to me. I’m 42 years old. I get bottle service once in a blue moon (honestly only go to clubs a couple times a year) and when I do – the bottle service girls love my friends and me. We are dream customers – we spend money, are friendly, behave ourselves, and leave a big tip at the end because we are grown women with money. Even without bottle service, we enjoy ourselves. Never, not once, has somebody looked at me in disgust at a nightclub. Do you know why? Because I mind my own business, have a good vibe, and am happy to be there. I’m having fun at 42, and I’m not trying to 24. It’s just a fun time to dance. If you want to do it, do it. Don’t let the weight of opinions like this stop you for enjoying your life. You don’t have time to waste. And if you don’t like it, you can leave! It’s not that deep. Have fun.
            PS – Last time I wore red and white OG Big Bubble AirMax 86’s and a black tank dress from Express. I looked and felt fine.

          5. “I get bottle service once in a blue moon (honestly only go to clubs a couple times a year) and when I do – the bottle service girls love my friends and me.”

            LMAOOOOOOOOO oh my god I’m dying

            Sweetie, the bottle service girls “love you” and your friends for the same reason that the strippers in a strip club pretend to “love” the guys stuffing money into their g-strings – it’s about the benjamins. I can assure you those 22-year-old girls do not think you are cool or awesome in your Nike Air Max’s. They’re happy to pretend like they do, so you tip them better. Seriously – how do you not know this???

            The lack of self-awareness and general awareness of how the world works here is AMAZING, never change, please post more, lolololol Also: please go re-watch Knocked Up, in particular the scene where Craig Robinson tells Leslie Mann he won’t let her into the club because she’s old as f—. You are basically just begging for that to happen to you at some point. Wake up.

          6. “Do not agree grandma. Some of us 50 year olds still like to go out and have fun.”

            Good for you. Please don’t come back here crying when someone puts a video on TikTok of you trying to shake your groove thing in the club that’s captioned “check out the dancing granny!”

          7. Good grief. Going to a club in Vegas is the last thing I want to do (I like to sit in the lobby bar at Paris Las Vegas and people watch), but all these mean replies are making me want to do it just to make the mean girls mad!!

          8. Some of these comments are so bizarre. It’s fine to go to clubs if you’re not 21. I’m very sure she understands that the people working bottle service like easy, nice customers and aren’t her new best friend forever. People are going out to have fun, not to compete in some imagined popularity contest. Life is a lot more fun when you’re secure in your own identity and don’t worry so much about how other people rate your dancing skills or outfit.

          9. I truly hope all your years after 40 are just as you picture them to be now. May you actually feel and look old AF when you reach 50. May you feel unattractive every single day after 39. This is my solemn wish for you.

          11. I didn’t say that the bottle service girls are my new BFFs. They are professionals. Like many professionals, they respect good clients and treat them well. Like I said, it’s not that deep. You made it sound like people in the club have contempt for older women. That just hasn’t been my experience, so my advice is that you shouldn’t hold yourself back from fully enjoying life because of other people’s opinions. Just live your life. Maybe you go around judging people harshly, so you think others judge you the same. But I don’t generally don’t think bad things about people, so I don’t worry too much about what people think of me.

            Also, I have never gotten more compliments on any piece of clothing more than those Air Max’s, haha.

          12. Has this site been invaded by some gross tiktok kids? Who calls women on a professiona site “grandma” as an insult? Honestly, I am not interested in clubs because I don’t drink and hate loud music now that I am in my 50s. Yep, our ears do get more sensitive as we age. But judging older women who are out having a good time is really immature and pathetic.

          13. Also – the club in Knocked Up is in LA . I probably didn’t have the right look for the hottest LA clubs when I was 20! But it’s a totally different ecosystem than Vegas, where the clubs are friendlier to tourists with money. None of this is rocket science. Anyway, you’re a mess, god bless. My old a ss has to get back to work.

        4. Yes, my two closest friends and I did a girls trip to Vegas when we were 28 or so, and we felt too old for the clubs then. It’s really an early 20s scene, but I was probably not cool enough for Vegas clubs even when I was 21.

    2. I’d wear a simple but either slightly lower cut or slightly higher-hemmed than normal dress and Gen Z sneakers or boots.

    3. I’m 47 and I would absolutely wear an oversized white button down, black leather leggings/slim cut pants, and a fun loafer to a Vegas club. I’d probably even wear oversized sunglasses and carry a fabulous clutch (think YSL or Valentino). Helen Mirren approved.

    4. Holy moly the responses here are crazy! As a 40 yo who just had a baby – late in life like so many career oriented women who read this site, the “grandma” namecalling is especially hilarious. I’ll count myself lucky if I make it to grandmotherhood by 70! OK, back to enjoying OONTZ OONTZ OONTZ in my headphones at my desk, thank goodness I can still do that at my ancient age.

    5. I’ve been to Vegas a handful of times, all of them at over-40 age. I’ve worn a variety of things, including cocktail and formal dresses like those from Neiman Marcus or Nordstrom, sequined joggers (these were a huge hit and got tons of compliments), and simple stretch body-con dresses in an interesting color (like dusty plum) to the nightlife events. I think a pair of wide-legged sequin pants with a flat front + a silk tee or a slouchy satin tee/blouse + a pair of elegant pumps is a fun look especially for an older woman. Anthropologie often has some fun options in their dresses that toe the line between cocktail and formal and don’t feel like you’re trying to be 20-something again. In fact, Anthro’s target market is women in their 50s! As a final option, an avant-garde dress that’s not sparkly or sequins or beaded, but is more like Rick Owens or AllSaints or ISSEY MIYAKE is a really fun option. There are groups of people wearing 100% right off the runway very obvious designer (or “superfakes”) wafting around the casinos and it’s always a treat to wear something that feels on the stealth wealth or art heaux side without feeling you have to compete with the people who are head to toe Gucci.

      For shoes, I’d limit the fancy pumps and strappy evening sandals to evening events–like walk to the lobby and hop in an Uber + clubs or lounges where you’ll be sitting mostly–Vegas is *hard* on your feet! I’d say a slip on soft leather flat or Rothy’s style ballet flat for day or for casual is fine.

      I can recommend the Mayfair Club for an upscale, exciting and very grown-up feeling outing without the “who are all these absolute children?!?” feeling. There’s a floor show and entertainment and I’d wear a cocktail or formal gown here. The Eiffel Tower restaurant in Paris is special as well and is a great place to wear a special occasion outfit.

  2. New runner here — I have been slogging and trying to become a morning runner. Energy is low and it feels like I’m just wasting time. I have more energy later but storms seem to roll in then and I’m not cool running in thunder and lightening. BUT Strava told me today that some legs were 11:30 miles, which is a total win even though it’s not that fast, it is very fast for me or me a year ago.

    1. SAD light? are you doing a program like couch to 5K then you definitely will hit a wall. maybe try something to mix it up like the zombie running thing?

    2. Do you eat before you run in the AM? I know some people do fasted cardio, but I need a few hundred good calories in my system before morning workouts.

      2. OP here — yes — a couple of yogurts or oatmeal. I need to eat as soon as I wake up. The running is maybe an hour later.

    4. I also have more energy later – I used to run home from work and it was the best – but now the morning works better for my schedule and I drag myself out of bed very reluctantly. I have no secret except that I force myself to do it because at some point runners high kicks in and it feels amazing. But it takes a while.

    5. How long have you been doing your morning runs? I have found that it can take awhile to get in a groove, but after awhile, the body seems to adjust and energy is better. Simple carbs beforehand help, too.

  3. Frivolous jewelry question. I would like to find a classic gold cuff bracelet and I am considering gold vermeil (I also contemplating buying a gold ring). For those who wear gold vermeil jewelry, what type have you worn (e.g., earrings, bracelet, etc.) and how long did it last before it faded?
    I am eying the Quince Open Contour Cuff Bracelet (if it comes back in stock) or the Kendra Scott Keeley Cuff Bracelet. If you have experience with either bracelet or another brand in a similar style, I would love your thoughts.
    Or do you think it is worth it to splurge on 14K? I will likely only wear the bracelet a couple of times a month. Since it is a classic style, however, it is something I would probably wear for years. I could afford 14K but I have a hard time spending money on myself (especially for something I would not wear everyday) which is why I was leaning toward the mid-range option between gold plating and real gold :)

    1. If you want to treat yourself to a classic investment piece I would probably visit a local jewelry store to see what they have instead of buying from a mall brand like Kendra Scott.

    2. Good vermeil is costume jewelry and doesn’t last. How long depends, but it’s not an investment piece and personally, I think a total waste of money. Get the 14k and go to a jewelry store, skip the online mass produced brands.

      1. +100. I worked in jewelry for a while and agree. You’ll just be disappointed when the plating starts to wear – go for the solid gold. Also, check out vintage/estate jewelers – you’ll often get a better deal than retail, and find something more interesting!

      2. I have a jeweler friend who works in both solid gold and vermeil. The vermeil turns on me instantly, whereas some of her clients wear vermeil for years.

        I buy 14k or higher gold only for this reason.

    3. Maybe look at what Park City, Utah, has to offer? That should be cool and a non-stop flight from Texas to Salt Lake City, then easy shuttles or rental vehicles from the airport to the resort location. Have fun!

  4. Good morning! My extended family with lots of small children is trying to take a vacation next summer. We want something 1. easy and 2. in cool weather. We had originally looked at some all inclusives in Mexico, but they don’t work well for large families (like only two kids allowed per room), and we’d rather have something cool. A big house would work but all the cooking might strain relationships! I would even be okay with neighboring condos or something. Any ideas?

    1. where are you starting? price points? we went to skytop in the poconos when my kids were small and my brothers kids were small with my parents. they have rooms like a hotel but also have separate houses if you want to stay together. indoor pool, mini golf. we went in winter so theres sledding and ice skating and a very small bunny hill for skiing. i’m sure they have summer activities though i have never been. Woodloch pines is another one. I know they’re not everyone’s cup of tea but cruises are great for big groups with mixed ages. again, depending on where you are starting they have foliage cruises from NY that head north in the fall.

      3. Also, we are starting from a major city in Texas, so flights aren’t a huge concern.

      4. I used to love Skytop but they’ve changed a bit over the years, and IMO not for the better. We haven’t been since they changed the meals to be à la carte.

        As for summer activities though, they have tons. Would be great for an all-ages trip.

      5. While Skytop is fun and there are lots of swimming and boating options, it is definitely hot in the summer.

        What about renting adjacent cottages on a lake in the Midwest (Minnesota, Michigan, Door County Wisconsin). I have never been but a quick google looks like something like the Edgewater Resort in Door County might be a good fit. You can rent rooms or cottages, there are nearby restaurants for meals, it’s on the lake and there’s a pool.

        1. Door County is super meh. It’s a nice long weekend for local-ish people but I can’t imagine flying there.

        3. Personally, I love Door County and went a lot when my kids were little (and still go now that they are in their 20’s). But we camped and that’s a very different activity. I highly recommend it generally, but I don’t think it’s right for what you are looking for.

      1. I think it’ll be hard to get to – there are any airports near there, are there?

        1. Your choices are to drive from BWI or Philly. There is an airport in Salisbury, but flights are SUPER limited and it’s all little tiny hoppers. I love the place but it’s a hike from an airport.

    4. The Caribbean isn’t “cool” but isn’t as hot as Mexico in summer. Beaches all-inclusive resorts are great – they’re set up for larger families (4 kids allowed per room) and you can probably even get a multi-room suite that fits everyone.
      Alternatively, a cruise? Could do Alaska if you want really cool.
      You’ll probably get lots of house rental suggestions but I detest renting houses with extended family and think you’re right to be wary of that.

      1. again depending on price point and location and your own preferences (and not to talk you into) people do things like arrange to have a chef come in for dinners or each family is in charge of a day’s meals or whatever…

        1. I don’t think most people have the budget for a private chef every day and the “each family does a day of meals” is exactly what I was thinking of when I said I was wary of this. 😅
          To each their own! I know some people love this, but renting a big house with extended family is not my idea of a vacation. I love my family and enjoy traveling with them but my preference is cruises or resorts where every family unit has their own space and some time for separate activities.

          1. Yes, OP here, and each family does a day of meals is what we are trying to avoid. We’ve done it in the past and it just caused a lot of stress for various reasons.

          2. Posted below but in Mexico a lot of vacation homes come with chefs who do all your meals.

    5. What about a family camp? I don’t know what you mean by cool, but mountains or Vermont/Maine might fit the need, especially early in summer.

      1. I think that would be great. Any specific recommendations? And by family camp, do you mean things like Skytop and Smugglers Notch like have been mentioned?

        As far as cool, we are coming from Texas, so almost anything is cooler than that, but I’d say highs of 80 would be fine.

          1. +1, I live in Santa Barbara and a friend of mine brings her kids up here every summer for the camp. She said it’s amazing and there are also plenty of opportunities for parents to get away for some private time too.

      2. Tyler Place family resort (all inclusive) would be great for this as long as you’re ok with the kids being in ‘camp’ for a good portion of the day. That was a feature, not a bug to me when I had a very young child and was wiped out but we stopped going once our kiddo hit 6ish and we wanted more 1 on 1 time with him/cousins/family.

    6. Just how “cool” do you mean when you say “cool”? Even Boston, Maine and NH can be super hot and uncomfortable in the summer. So I wonder if you’re looking at maybe Colorado or something like that? On a lake vs ocean maybe?

    7. Cool weather in the summer? Rent a cottage on a lake in Maine or something? It’s going to be hot pretty much everywhere but being on the water would help.

    8. On the off chance you haven’t considered this already – if you have grandparents/other child-free people traveling with you, you can ‘register” some kids to their room too, which sometimes makes it work numbers-wise.

    9. This always goes best for us when we do separate neighbouring apartments in a larger resort. Alternate between eating in restaurant and cooking together and eating separately. We like Tuscany at the beach for this but it may be too hot for you.

      If you’re interested in Europe, northern Italy won’t be crazy hot at end of June. Austria has some nice lakeside resorts with a similar set up, as does northern Germany or Martinhal in Portugal.

      1. Can you provide any names of these? My family is looking for summer 2024, and a lakeside resort in Austria or Portugal or wherever sounds divine.

    10. I would go to New England. You have places like Smugglers Notch in Vermont which has a lot going on in the summer. First went there with my children to ski and went back in the summer. Lots of organized stuff to do which enables smaller groups to break away and do their own thing. When you are in a big group, I found this style of vacation works better.

      1. I like Smuggs, but it has virtually no restaurants. I’ve only been in the winter – maybe the summer is better because you can access Stowe more quickly, but I wouldn’t recommend it for a family that’s trying to avoid cooking group meals.

    11. How cool does it have to be? I love the Bar Harbor/Acadia area of Maine, but unless you go in June (which tends to be pretty rainy) you’re likely to have some days with temps above 80 and potentially even above 85. This summer was blissful and most of July and August had highs in the low-mid 70s, that’s not the norm.

    12. To me this sounds like family cruise out of Boston or Alaska. Cruises are the easiest possible vacation IMO. The price can seem expensive, but when you factor in that it includes ALL food, shows/entertainment, recreation, transportation between tour sites, etc, it ends up being more reasonable. Someone else does all the cooking, plans the itinerary and activities, you just show up. Typically there is childcare on the ship for the littles, also included in the fare.

      1. I agree that a cruise is right for this, but Alaska cruises are probably not the right cruises for kids. They seem to be more adult centered.

        I’m not familiar with cruises out of Boston though.

        1. I disagree, kid friendliness is determined much more by the cruise line and on board amenities than the ports of call. Disney and Royal Caribbean both have summertime Alaska sailings, and both those lines are going to be super kid friendly. IMO if the excursions aren’t kid friendly, you could just stay on the boat and enjoy – the point is the cool weather, not to hike a glacier.

          1. Agree, cruise line matters a lot more than itinerary. Disney and Royal are probably the most kid-centric, but there are kids’ clubs on most of the major cruise lines including Princess, Crystal, Celebrity, NCL and Holland America. I wouldn’t take young kids on a cruise line that doesn’t have kids clubs (even if they allow kids) but any cruise line with kids clubs will be fine, and there will be plenty of kids onboard during summer break. If you cruise when school’s in session you can expect way fewer kids, but Alaska cruises pretty much only operate in the summer anyway.

        2. Disagree, Alaska cruises are great for kids. There were tons of kids on our Alaska cruise (on Princess) in 2014, and it’s become more popular since then. I know four families with school age kids that did Alaska cruises this summer.

    13. Get a big house in Mexico and hire a chef to cook your meals – many friend have done this with big families and have said it’s quite reasonable as an added feature.

    14. if you’re going early like May then PA might still be cold – Nemacolin has big estates for large groups and families. zoo on property, ziplining, etc, but spa/golf/etc for dads. good for architecture buffs too, 2 frank lloyd wright properties nearby (Falling Water and Knob Creek).

    15. I don’t have any personal recommendations, but if you really wanted cool temperatures during July or August, I’d look into northern California, the Pacific Northwest, or even Alaska.

    16. I haven’t been but maybe Grand View Lodge in MN. Cooler, many dining, accommodation and and activity options.

      1. +1 I haven’t been there myself. But I’ve been eyeing Grand View Lodge in the future because they offer a kids camp during the day for kid’s 3-11.

        1. It’s a beautiful resort in an area with lots to do: golfing, boating, fishing, swimming, min-golf, biking, hiking, etc.

    17. How about a cruise? I once went on one with my husband’s extended family– there were 32 of us in total, and it worked out great. Because it’s a contained space you can go off and do your own thing and run into people from your group. Depending on the ages of the kids you can give them a little more free reign on a cruise ship too.

    18. What about going to a family camp in the Adirondaks? All the food is provided, activities are there, and the weather is similar to Maine.

    19. Hidden Pond in Kennebunkport, Maine would be a good option. The accommodations are two bedroom cottages, so you could get a few neighboring ones.

    21. The NC mountains (Asheville, Blowing Rock) might be a good spot. Grove Park Inn – Asheville, Chetola – Blowing Rock. You can fly into Asheville or Charlotte.

    22. It’s not cheap but the Dolphin Bay Resort and Spa outside of Pismo Beach, California is like a condo complex with all the amenities of a hotel. We’ve stayed in a two-bedroom suite and had a great time. There’s a restaurant on site (and I think room service) so you won’t have to cook all the time even though there’s a kitchen in the unit. Weather is nice and there’s the beach, cycling, hiking, Hearst Castle, the sea lion beach, and wineries for the adults.

    23. Don’t know why on earth I’m in mod, but check back for a specific recommendation for the Central Coast of California.

    24. Yes. Sunriver, Oregon. The YMCA at Estes Park, Colorado. Resort hotels in Maine. Asilomar in Monterey, California.

    25. Every time people ask for a cooler summer destination, there is one obvious answer: the Pacific coast. As a lifelong Californian, the California coast is basically freezing in June and even in July and August, you regularly have a marine layer that keeps temperatures down. I have never, not even once, been “hot” on a California beach. Options for vacations along the California coastline are basically infinite, though if you want to swim in the ocean, I would not go any further north than Santa Cruz and I’d consider a wetsuit if you are accustomed to Atlantic or Gulf beaches.

  6. Prompted by a magical visit to Southern California, talk to me about how you make it work and whether it feels worth it to live in a HCOL area (whether that’s CA or elsewhere that you consider high cost but high value). I’ve always lived in the Midwest – currently in a small city that is fine but nothing special. I appreciate the cost of living and relative ease of things here, and understand climate change is real. So moving to somewhere like California is a pipe dream at the moment, but I cant stop thinking about how I’d really love to live somewhere with more natural beauty. I believe happiness is a choice but also believe I might be happier if I could stick my feet in the ocean more often.

    1. When we moved to CA, the biggest thing was that we had to accept that we could not afford the same size home that we did in our MCOL area. At all. Like half the size. So we just got comfortable living in about 1500 sqft and gave away 2/3 of our furniture, trading a home twice the size for one twice the price. When people say CA is unaffordable, they mean for the same standard of living as in Poughkeepsie. For sure that is true. So start with budget, look at what housing is available, and go from there. Everything else is pretty comparable to other areas (pricier, but not 2x), it’s the housing costs that kills.

      1. This, you just live in a smaller house. Actually more like an apartment or a condo or a flat. But you learn to curate your things and it’s just fine.

      2. Agree with this. You also get used to having a different form of entertainment, albeit one that is cheaper. I’m in the Midwest, used to live in California, and we pay a lot for things that come standard in California. My recreation in California was swimming year round (heated condo pool or the ocean with a wetsuit when it was cold), surfing, riding a bike up and down the beach boardwalk, kayaking…. It’s great because you use all that gear year round, so it’s worth it to buy. Not so much here. We pay for a place that has an outdoor pool from May until early September. We pay for a gym pass that gets us year round indoor swimming (which gets kind of gross after a while). We rent kayaks because it makes no sense to buy when we have to drive 40 minutes to a place to launch them.

        1. +1. Our weekend activities in CA were hiking, camping, sightseeing, driving along the coast, visiting the beach, visiting beautiful parks and playgrounds. Versus our MCOL city where we paid for a private club w/ pool, paid to go to museums, paid for a subscription to the theater, paid to go to sports games. For sure you can buy all those things in CA, too, but when the great outdoors is so beautiful and temperate, it’s less necessary.

    2. I went the other way – Bay Area to small college town in the Midwest (although I grew up in the Midwest, so wanting to go back there wasn’t out of the blue).

      California is a beautiful place, but the cost of living and traffic really really got to me after a few years. We were high earners (HHI near $300k), but it really felt like home ownership was out of reach unless we wanted to spend ALL our money on a house, which was scary to us. Our income was cut in half when we moved here and we feel so much richer. And it’s not just the money, although having tons of money obviously helps with everything. The first time I went to the grocery store in our new town I nearly cried tears of joy because the whole outing took under an hour. I was used to spending an hour just driving to and from the store even though it was only a couple miles away. People who are athletic and bike everywhere (like my husband would bike to the grocery store) don’t seem to mind the traffic as much, but be realistic about whether or not that’s you. My friends who still live there spend hours in the car every day, even though their workplaces and kids’ schools and everything else in their lives is all within 5-10 miles of home. That’s just unimaginable to me now.

      YMMV but when I lived in the Bay Area I felt like I didn’t get to appreciate all the natural beauty on a daily basis. It’s not like being on vacation, and I definitely did not have my feet in the ocean on a regular basis. I worked long hours, as do most people in that area, and traffic is so bad that popping over to the coast for the day isn’t that easy. We did take some really nice, memorable trips to some of California’s natural highlights like Yosemite and Tahoe, but you can do that living outside California too.

      1. As another data point, I live in the Bay Area and rarely spend time in traffic. I’ve always lived biking distance to work, my kids’ school, and the supermarket. I drive, walk, or bike as my mood and the day’s logistics demand.

        That said, my part of the Bay Area is extra pricey. I know plenty of folks who either have to deal with traffic or choose to for better housing.

      2. I’m friends with two couples that recently made the same choice. They used to live in the Midwest, moved to California, then decided to come back. They absolutely loved the mild weather and outdoor activities. But they couldn’t afford to rent a bigger apartment, let alone buy a SFH, when they decided to start a family. Each couple was dual income with one high paying STEM job so they felt that their lifestyle should be better given their income. Maybe if you grew up on the west coast you’re accustomed to the COL. But my friends didn’t want to have a baby in a one bedroom apartment when they know what it’s like have a SFH with a big yard.

        1. Yeah, exactly. My parents were of pretty modest means, but I grew up in a single family house with a yard and fun camps and activities and regular family vacations, and I wanted all that for my kids. Even on nearly $300k HHI, we really didn’t see that happening for us in the Bay Area, at least not without robbing our retirement accounts, which we didn’t want to do.

          Fwiw, my friends that stayed in the Bay Area all eventually purchased homes for >$3M. In most cases it was a combination of tech money and family money, neither of which we had. Obviously you can live there on less, but it’s hard to have a nice upper middle class lifestyle there without being mega rich.

    3. I’ve only ever lived in HCOL places and there are a lot of things that make it worth it. California has the most amazing natural beauty and diversity of landscape, not to mention the diverse population and all the benefits that brings. We talk about moving but then a quick winter ski day in Tahoe driving from the Bay Area makes me want to stay. I love the idea of living in a smaller amount in town somewhere in the west but those are even more expensive in many cases.

      1. Forgot to add that the downside is also housing cost, obviously. We have a great deal on rent but it’s still a lot of money.

    4. I grew up in SoCal and couldn’t get away quickly enough. It is a nice fantasy but the reality falls far short unless you are super rich, and no amount of money can buy you out of the traffic and smog. A few of the staff on the Emily Henderson blog have written about purchasing and renovating $1M+ dumps in LA. Look at some of the pictures and decide whether you would really like to live in those conditions. Another thing to keep in mind is that everything in CA is geographically bigger and complicated by insane traffic. It’s not like you can just walk across the street to the beach or be at the ski area in 45 minutes the way you can in many places on the east coast.

    5. There are studies suggesting getting out into nature regularly is important for mood. If you are a place where it’s too hot in Summer to do that on a regular basis, I can understand the need to make a change.

    6. It’s expensive because it’s worth it, I highly encourage you to think about moving here if you love it. I live 5 minutes from the ocean, go running there in the mornings or evenings, pop up to the wine country on a whim because it sounds fun on a weekend, drive by the Golden Gate Bridge every day on my way to work, hike in the redwoods regularly, have access to every kind of food, cultural event, friends, tons of jobs and great weather. Hard to beat. I happily live in a smaller home because the area is so rich.

      1. Yeah, the first time I visited San Francisco I thought, okay, I get why people pay so much to live here!

      1. Ugh, what is with people who care so much about how others refer to California? It literally doesn’t matter or affect you. I am a native Californian and I could not care less if anyone calls it “Frisco” or “San Fran” and many of my local friends do say Cali.

        1. +1. I use Cali sometimes, and I grew up and lived in southern California for 30 years.

        2. In anon at 10:35’s defense, I’m a lifelong Californian and I have to say I also cringe when I hear “Cali” or “Frisco,” although I would never point it out outright.

          1. Frisco grates on me. I’m a native Californian but grew up out in the sticks. I settled in the Bay Area and the people from my hometown who called it Frisco were the same people who didn’t know why I’d want to live around all of “those” people – meaning people of other races as well as those with same secs orientation. I associate the term Frisco with racist homophobes now.

    8. My mom grew up in Orange County (before it was super fancy) and moved away as an adult– she does not miss it. Our friends and family that still live in the area tend to have something they really care about that they could not get elsewhere, like access to a large LGBTQ community or immigrant community or access to the outdoors. My cousins and uncle are super into surfing. My uncle has lived in the same house for 30 years. His kids live in condos that they rent. They work together at a start-up near their houses, so they are not commuting into any of the major cities for work. Several of them have bought vacation properties in other states but do not own their primary residences.

      Most of my friends that live in CA are single and do weekend trips frequently to go camping, snowboarding, etc. So for them, the access to the outdoors on weekends definitely makes up for living in a tiny apartment during the week. They also don’t tend to travel outside of CA. I think all of this changes once you have kids though.

      1. My family moved to OC when I started kindergarten in the early 1970s, and I grew up there. Minority, but we pass. Went away for school and returned in the 1990s. By then, it was much less explicitly xenophobic, in large part because there was, and continues to be, a large immigrant and highly educated workforce. Sadly, the pandemic pulled the veneer off yet more no-longer-hidden MAGA tendencies in OC, and that is ugly. But good news, we are still very diverse (one can get virtually any ethnic food, just like in a big city, which I take as a marker for diversity, and I believe I’ve read that we are one of the most diverse counties in the country) and we are purple (we elected Clinton in 2016 and voted our Rohrabacher), so it could should progressing in the correct direction.

        Also, we are in CA, so state laws about access to healthcare, labor protections, air and water protections apply (unlike people who live in Austin (TX laws apply) or Atlanta (GA laws apply) or Charlotte etc.).

        2. Yep, all of this. I was born and raised in OC (north OC, so not the fancy part, but still very safe and excellent schools) in the 1990s and never felt out of place as a child of immigrants with liberal parents. In fact most of my friends were East/South Asian because of the strong immigrant presence in the demographic. It’s been lovely to see how purple OC is getting and I think eventually it may go full on blue with the exception of some of the richest cities on the southern tip.

    9. I was just saying the other day I really regret being so frugal on housing when I was younger. I feel like I missed out on so many fun times with my friends because I wasn’t just down the street. Lower your standards for a home, spend more, and live where you want.

      1. +1, agreed. When we were first married, we way underspent on housing and lived in areas where our neighbors weren’t really our peers in terms of profession and dual income, and were far away from colleagues, not to mention having needlessly long commutes.

    10. I grew up in SoCal and left for college/grad school and then worked in NYC for the first few years of my career. In the end I knew I would always come back because no other place offers me everything SoCal does (setting aside the family aspect of it, which is a big deal for me too) – perfect weather, great food, ocean/mountains nearby, modicum of diversity, etc. I live on the central coast now, but lived in LA/SF for many years and loved both of those cities too. I do agree with the other posters though that the VHCOL can make it difficult. My friends who are not on the 500K+ HHI bought houses before the pandemic price run-up; I think now it would be very difficult to buy a house in the nicer neighborhoods on less than a 300K HHI (and that’s setting aside inventory, which is terrible right now). To be clear, I’m not remotely athletic, nor do I hike/surf etc, but it is all still worth it for me. I love that I never have to wear layers, that the sun is out almost every day and I’m always comfortable indoors and out. My H and I have discussed moving to a even slightly lower cost of living area (say, Seattle, which is still pretty $$$) but I just can’t do it. I was born here, and I’ll die here, and I’m very grateful for that.

    11. I will add another comment that if you want to take advantage of the outdoors in California, you have to commit to the planning and the effort that takes. It’s challenging and expensive to live right on the beach, for example, but with just a little bit of effort, you can plan easy weekend trips. I find that my experience in California dramatically improved when I put in that planning effort instead of yielding to the siren song of the couch just because traffic is tricky and you have to get some places early to find parking and reserve campgrounds way in advance. Put in good processes so you can get all those activities incorporated into your routine and you will get so much out of the state.

    12. I love California! I’m a native and have seen lots of changes in my 58 years here, but I will never leave. If you leave, you can’t come back, or that’s how it seems to have worked with my friends who moved away. And all but one of them wish they could come back, but they’ve gotten used to a lower cost of living & can’t imagine downsizing their homes to come back.

      My husband and I have casually looked at moving to other places for retirement but the main thing that would bum me out would be not being able to be outdoors all year. There are so many places where it’s too cold to be outside, then nice for about 3 minutes, then gets too hot to be outside (that’s a quote from my sibling who now lives in Texas.) We have a beautiful outdoor living space here that we use year-round – the only thing that keeps us inside is rain – and I’m too accustomed to that to give it up. I can’t imagine being locked up in an air conditioned building all day on a beautiful sunny day. It’s just not how I live.

      2. Wanted to point out the outdoor living space– my grandparents and uncles have outdoor living spaces in their very small homes. Outside of SoCal, those living spaces would be used for 3-6 months out of the year tops, but in LA/Orange County, those areas might as well be part of the house. So, that is another way that people get by with a smaller space.

        2. Outdoor living is possibly the biggest thing I miss about SoCal. I am in the SEUS and can’t use my deck and backyard for all the mosquitoes.

      3. Texas is hotter than a lot of places. I’m in the Midwest and spend a lot of time outdoors most of the year. Summer afternoons and evenings are hot and muggy, but the mornings are lovely. And in the winter it’s freezing in the morning, but often pretty mild by the afternoon. So it’s not mild all day every day like California, but if you have some flexibility about when you go out, you can get out most days. We don’t go outside much in January and the first half of February (although post-holiday laziness is a factor too, not just the weather), but most other months we’re outdoors a lot. And spring and fall are just glorious here.

    13. The opposite direction but have you considered Maine or New Hampshire? Or Minneapolis even? All have hard winters but so easy to get out and cross-country ski, downhill ski except MN, snow shoe, and the summers are gorgeous. In Maine and the close part of New Hampshire can easily get to the coast; in Minneapolis can hop in the lakes. The cost of living plus wildfire risk of California is a big deterrent for me.

    14. Adding to what others have said, I want to put in a pitch for all the cultural opportunities here in So Cal. We have a world-class orchestra, theatre, the Hollywood Bowl, more museums than you can shake a stick at, all kinds of independent dance and theatre and music venues, you name it. I really really value all that. In addition, of course, to all that sickeningly fabulous nature.

    15. I was born and raised in San Diego, lived in the Midwest for college, law school, and 5 years post law school, before returning to San Diego – mostly for the weather and to be near family. I love it! I remember flying into the SD airport when I lived in the Midwest and it made me so happy to have sunshine, palm trees, the ocean, etc. I don’t regret moving, and I love that our child can grow up outside. Unsurprisingly, the biggest difference and only big downside is the cost, mostly as relates to housing. We own a small home in a great location that would buy a mansion anywhere in the Midwest; and when we visit family in the Midwest I feel a twinge of “if I moved back here, I could have this”; and we were only able to afford it because family helped with the downpayment. I will say, I don’t go to the beach nearly as much as I thought I would. But I do love knowing it’s there! Lastly, although there are definitely downsides of the state government, it is really important to me to live in a state where I feel like my rights as a woman will always be protected, and that my child can grow up around people who mostly don’t bat an eye about gay or trans people.

  7. I think it’s time to leave my job. I’m an MBB partner and feel like we enormously mismanaged talent during covid/over the last 3 years and the level of independence and autonomy is just so low compared to what it used to be and I don’t think I can be solely responsible for QCing client docs anymore when the manager and team members just like… don’t use spell check and other similarly egregious things.

    1. Not just you. And not just in MBBs. My theory is that the kids raised by helicopter parents finished college during COVID and they are at the level of adulting we were at when we were 15 and working summers as grocery store clerks or at Wendy’s.

      1. I don’t think you can blame this solely on Covid, at least not in certain areas. In my area things were only virtual for three months in 2020. All the colleges were back to fulltime in person instruction in August 2020. I can’t imagine a few months of virtual school more than three years ago would have that big an impact on a college age kid (although I definitely feel bad for all the high school and college seniors who missed graduations and celebratory events in 2020).

        1. I know a lot of people who had kids taking a gap year in 2020 for the 20-21 academic year because many offerings were virtual or threatened to be for the year. SEC conference schools were open but a lot of other schools wouldn’t commit or were doing a lot of virtual classes from dorm rooms.

        2. I think it’s the steamroller parents more than COVID. I have a high school senior and every educator and professional who works with kids is saying that the current batch of teens is generally less independent than previous cohorts. I see it even with young PhDs in the workplace. They think that everything is just going to be handed to them because it has been all their lives. The ones who went to college on Pell grants, worked for a couple years before grad school, etc. are much more capable.

          1. You do realize, don’t you, that this has been a complaint of every older generation about every younger generation for millennia? The older folks always think the younger folks are lazy, want everything handed to them, have an outsized sense of entitlement, etc. I doubt the Gen Zers you’re working with are all that different than you were at their age.

          2. No, actually when I was their age I worked two jobs to pay all my own bills and was aware that I did not know everything. These kids are always saying ridiculous nonsense like “it’s illegal for the organization not to pay me more for remote work because I choose to live in a HCOL area” and “I led an intern working on a teeny tiny portion of the project so I should get promoted two levels to be equivalent to a PI with 12 years’ experience.”

        3. Counterpoint – my daughter’s college was remote for 4 full quarters (Spring 2020 and all of 2020-2021). She herself has said that she feels like there were classes in which she got good grades but did not really absorb the material because of the combination of remote instruction and lenient grading.

          But also, I had noticed this pre-Covid. There has just been a general dumbing down of standards. Even pre-pandemic I was seeing spelling and grammar mistakes in documents intended for filing with the court that would have been unacceptable in a high school graduate 20 years ago and are now coming from lawyers. It did not help that my (old) firm cut support staff to the bone so there was no longer any proof reading going on!

          I have not idea why (although I have thoughts that are not particularly well-informed with data) but I knew we had a problem when I had to explain the proper use of apostrophes to an associate. And to be clear, this was not a one-time typo. She was getting it wrong all over the place and when I asked if she understood my corrections she told me she had never been taught.

          1. There are teachers who have never been taught mechanics or sentence boundaries. It seems like education programs now focus a lot more on classroom management and behavioral control than on making sure people know what students need to learn from them.

          2. Public schools no longer teach grammar except in foreign language courses. They also don’t teach writing except in AP and IB courses. Our district does not even allow teachers in regular and honors English classes to have the kids read and discuss the same books.

      1. Agreed. This is cyclical not generational — and it’s also curable. You should talk to the manager immediately to provide this feedback.

        Also, is it worth talking to partners in your practice area to see if you have consensus on what your team’s written materials are supposed to look like? Not spell checking is egregious, but is it possible that your fellow partners have different expectations for other style matters or levels of polish? If so, maybe it would help for you to provide a style guide or checklist for your own teams at project kick off. At the very least, I think you can remind your teams at kick off that you want documents to be client-ready when sent for your review so you can focus on the strategic argument, conclusion, etc.

        1. Really good suggestions. Three other partners and I agreed on a style manual that our teams all used, and our admins all had the same shells for documents. I lost the battle on the Oxford comma. It had a checklist that included not asking the partners to fix typographical errors. Some newbies think it’s okay to have typos, because someone else will proof the document later.

        2. Hot take? My generation, millennial generation (I’m 38), are generally crappy managers. SO MANY OF MY PEERS go out of their way to avoid giving feedback or having tough conversations. I don’t know if it’s generational or cyclical and all early-generation managers suck at this, but in my professional life, we do. I’ll give the boomers I’ve worked with credit: never shy about giving direct feedback.

          So, I’m 100% in – this is changeable but FIX IT. Have the uncomfortable conversation with the under performer.

          1. Fellow 38 year old here, and agreed. I am newly managing others, and giving direct feedback was a struggle for me (and still is, though I’m doing it, and am told I’m striking a good balance). I can definitely see how a “perfect storm” situation like mine (new manager, brand new employee with their first job) could be frustrating for all involved.

          2. I don’t disagree with you but ugh, I wish this was true at my workplace. My boomer boss will not give anyone straight feedback despite having impossible standards, to the point that I (also 38 year old millennial) once had to clarify for someone that yes, she had just fired them. Anytime she meets with someone I have to meet with them afterwards to tell them what the heck just happened and what she actually wants them to do. It’s exhausting and also why I am job hunting!

      2. OP here. I am really trying. I am very direct with feedback (both positive and developmental) but also kind. people love working with me. I just… have 2 teams where brand new ppl tell me I’m wrong about what the clients need, others ignore 70% of client feedback on a deck without saying “hey we see this comments, we actually disagree and here’s why, happy to connect if helpful,” then they don’t tell me when they have questions on things so just don’t address big chunks of work and tell me after much teeth pulling that maybe they had some questions. Like, I know this is making me sound like I am a mean harpy and the problem here, but truly I am not. I just can’t deal with this anymore.

    3. I’m an MBB engagement manager and definitely am very anxious that I missed learning part of the team lead job since I did it remote. My firm talks all the time about the way the junior team is missing skills due to COVID but never addresses how that applies to the mid-seniority people too, so it genuinely may be a blind spot? All that said, that partner life looks pretty miserable so definitely understand wanting to leave.

      1. OP here. It 100% applies at every level. even new partners who were junior partners during the heyday are behind on client development because they just had to field inbound work and didn’t need to really hustle or generate the outbound skills. There’s 100% no shame in being underapprenticed and not having had the necessary experience and understanding of expectations. Some people just refuse to learn and even for the majority that don’t, I just don’t feel like I can shoulder the burden myself. It’s such an unfortunate situation all around.

    4. Isn’t there a staffer level position who can do the QC? For example at my law firm our law librarians will proofread documents for grammar/style.

    5. I’m in BigLaw and feel very similarly, fwiw. Also contemplating getting out, for these and other reasons

    6. I hear your frustration but this is a national workforce issue – will face similar challenges elsewhere.

  8. Has anyone ordered shoes from Margaux or Thursday Boots? Have been eyeing their shoes for a while and am curious about the quality and how well they have held up.

    1. I love my Thursday Boots boots, they fit well, didn’t need much breaking in and I never get hot spots.

      If it helps, my foot is a bit narrow, and low volume. I wear a 7.5 or 8, got the 8 and they are perfect.

    2. I have shoes from both.
      I have the Thursday Soho boot in black and I love it. My feet are wide but the leather formed nicely and they’re quite comfortable. I’d recommend them.
      I have the Mule and Uptown Sandal from Margaux. For a company that actually has wide sizes, I find that they are not wide enough. The mules are uncomfortable and give me blisters. The leather has formed to my foot a bit after multiple wears but they’re still not great.
      The Uptown Sandal (which it looks like they don’t make anymore; the City Sandal is the same strap style but a lower heel) is the most uncomfortable shoe I own. I need to cover my toes in moleskin or the straps will cut right into them. The straps do not stretch. I would have returned them if I hadn’t gotten them final sale. I will not be purchasing more shoes from them.

    3. I have a pair of Thursday’s Chelsea boots and I’m obsessed with them. I’ve beaten them to sh*t the last two winters and they still look great.

    4. I have a pair of Thursday boots that I love. They are comfortable and I wore them everywhere the last two years (well in fall and winter.) They have held up well. I wore them on a trip last year and walked all over the city.

  9. What’s your texting style? And how does it work with your friends’ and family’s?

    Functional —tell me only what I need to know, the bare minimum to make plans
    Chatty—on and off conversations all day, dipping in and out
    Email-esque—long paragraphs with all the information, followed by long delays in responding
    Link sharer—you bond by sharing articles, memes, etc

    Or something else?

    1. Mainly Functional, especially with people I see regularly.
      Chatty (but definitely not all day every day!) with my close friend who lives in France and I never get to see in person. Maybe once every month or so we will chat for somewhere between 15 and 60 minutes over text (with immediate replies). It’s the millennial version of a catch-up phone call, I guess.
      Not at all the other two.

    2. functional and emailesque. I won’t give you huge long paragraphs with all the info, but I will have long delays in responding. ( Just because you chose to text me does not demand instant attention on my part.) Of course, I was also the person back in phone-answering-machine days who disliked listening to your message and returning your call, and I was also the person back in letter-writing days (remember those???) who disliked the obligation to write a letter in response to yours, so my dislike of having to maintain chatty long-distance communication is pretty consistent, no matter the method being used.

    3. Typically functional with local friends. With long distance friends/family, it’s more sporadic – chatty sparked by a photo of particular anecdote of interest to that person, goes back and forth for 30-40 minutes, then nothing for a few days or weeks.

    4. mostly functional but i do like having a few lackadaisical group text chats. i HATE a) the long long paragraph that comes as one thought with 15 things to respond to and i also had b) people who will spread 1 thought over 6 texts b/c of typos or corrections or additions or emojis– my phone is just going dingdingdingdingding and it drives me mad. i’ve muted the conversations that i can but for the person who watches my kids i can’t.

    5. Chatty with my two besties all day every day. It’s my biggest screen time usage and I do need to cut down a bit but it’s hilarious and supportive.

    6. All of the above, depending on who I’m talking to.
      I’m not sure what you mean by “how does it work…” though, I mean, I text, they text back, we get across the information we want to get across, lol.

      1. Sorry, that should read depending on who I’m talking to and why I’m talking to them.

    7. Mainly functional these days. I’ve found that my chatty texting tends to devolve into complaining about things I wouldn’t otherwise dwell on, so I try to avoid the play by play of our days type texting.

    8. I use Whatsapp for everything and don’t feel like I even send personal emails or texts anymore? And I’m a stereotypical elder millennial so never talk on the phone.

      My bestie and I have replicated the pattern we established while sharing an office during our PhD with a running whatsapp chat with multiple messages throughout the day. We haven’t seen each other since pre-Covid but the chitchat helps us feel really connected (and we’ve booked a trip to Paris in October). It’s casual but asynchronous, and neither of us need an immediate reply.

      I keep the school whatsapp and volunteer group chats muted, so I’ll see it if I’m looking at something else and for everyone else, it’s a more functional chat, no expectation of immediate reply etc.

    9. I’m functional, and sometimes feel like I should be chattier. My husband told me that when we started dating, I was really warm in person, but came off as cold over text and he was confused by that. My friends have teased me about how
      I’m not great at chatting in the group text. And my MIL sends a million emojis per text with a lot of hearts and it makes me uncomfortable because I really don’t feel natural reciprocating…

    10. All of the above. It depends on recipient(s), my mood, my time, my level of attention, the subject matter, and my mood.

    11. Functional with my husband
      Chatty with my sister and BFFs
      Email-esque with my mom, though sometimes chatty if we catch each other at the right time, and with the rest of my family

    12. Link sharer for sure, but also chatty, sometimes functional. I don’t email any of my friends.

      It’s a know your audience thing. I have a couple of meme friends, I have a couple of friends who just want the tea, and I have a tighter group of friends where we talk about real things.

      Functional is for my son who is not going to answer a chatty email.

    13. All of the above
      I might text 20 different people in a day for various reasons – business partners, clients, close friends, old distant friends, my BF, someone flirting/trying to hook up. Every one calls for something different.

  10. I’m toying with the idea of a warm and sunny beach trip the first weekend of February to coincide with a birthday. Any suggestions for a place that’a 3-5 hour flight from DC, since this would only be for ~4 days. Foreign is okay. Ideally there would be some activities other than sitting on the sand or swimming. Any ideas? Is it too late to even consider this?

    1. Caribbean. British Virgin Islands are to die for. Boat rentals, hiking, incredible scenery. I think some other islands down that way (St Lucia?) might have more activities/hiking. I’m a big sailor so we’re plenty content just holing up on a sailboat for the week, so I know less about on-island offerings, but that’s the corner of the world I’d start looking at.

      1. I adore the Virgin Islands, but they’re really a sailing, swimming and snorkeling destination. It sounds like OP wants more in the way of land-based activities and there are better choices in the Caribbean.

    2. Puerto Rico. San Juan is a ~4 hour flight from DC. Aside from the beach there’s museums, the Bacardi factory, dancing, and more.

    3. Puerto Rico, if you really care about non-beach stuff. The beaches are very blah though.

    4. What about flying to the Bahamas or Turks & Caicos? There are big luxury resorts on both with lots of spas/restaurants/gambling/etc.

      3. +1 to St. Lucia. You can hike the Tet Paul Nature Trail and visit the drive-in volcano. We stayed at Anse Chastanet and there was nice snorkeling right off the beach there.

    7. DH hates sand (but snorkeling is okay) soI wanted to split days between sand and something else. I ‘m the birthday girl so great beaches take priority this one time.

      1. It’s not really feasible when you only have 4 days but for future trips, you guys should think about a sailboat charter in the Caribbean. The US & British Virgin Islands are the most popular places to do them. Great snorkeling & scenery, no sand unless you choose to land on a beach. You could visit beaches while your DH stays on the boat.

        For this trip, I’d vote for Turks and Caicos or St Martin. Both relatively easy to reach from the US and both have really nice beaches and some non-beach stuff to do (St Martin moreso than Turks).

  11. Vicarious shopping help needed: I’m looking for unicorn pants. I want pull-on, elastic waist, comfortable pants for work (casual office environment). Preferably either wide leg or tapered style, ankle or floor length – I’m 5’3″. The tricky part is I recently got a walking pad to go with my standing desk, so I’m usually logging 2-4 miles a day. My upper thighs rub together when I walk, so all of my cotton blend pants are starting to pill. Are there any pants of this style that are made of a more athletic material that can hold up to this amount of activity?

    1. J Crew Factory Jaime pants are like this! I bought them based on recs here, but they were a bit too athletic feeling for me and too casual for my dressy business casual office. Maybe also Athleta Brooklyn, although I haven’t tried those.

      1. Ditto the Jaime pants. I just bought my first pair and plan to wear them on more casual/meeting-less days.

        1. +2

          This would be great for you, as they are comfortable and essentially work-out pants slightly tailored like regular pants. So the material will never pill.

          The trick is whether they work well for your shape. I am a bit more of an extreme pear and they don’t really fit right, but they are so forgiving and I am so hard to fit that I still bought 3 pairs.

    6. Duluth Trading company NoGa pants – they now have a variety of inseams to choose from.

      1. +1 on the NoGa pants. The cotton version is super comfortable. Or try Chico’s Hutton pants — they are part of the Travelers Collection, wide-legged, elastic, synthetic (so easy to bunch up in a bag for travel, but you may not want synthetic).

    7. If you want to try something cheap, I have a pair of wide leg StretchTech pants from Old Navy and I absolutely love them. My office is still business dress, but if we were casual, I’d definitely wear them to work. It’s a more technical fabric and I don’t think it would pill at all.

      Also, congratulations on making the walking pad work for you! That’s awesome. I honestly have never figured out a way to stand at my desk, much less walk, while actually working.

    8. Heh, I read this one a little fast, and first thought you wanted pants with a unicorn print! :D

  12. Gut check on a logistical issue. I have a minor leadership role in a professional organization. There’s an upcoming conference for the org that is a flight away for me. The main meeting I would like to attend is on Friday afternoon, though there’s plenty of stuff to do on Thursday too. I have tickets to an event that begins Saturday at noon back home. It is my very strong preference to not fly back Saturday morning; if the earliest flight is exactly on time then I would just barely make it to the event and I’d prefer to not cut it so close. The only flights on Friday require me to either miss the afternoon meeting or get home around 2 am. No other airports have better options. I feel guilty skipping the Friday afternoon meeting for something in my personal life, but I think that’s the only viable option, right? Wwyd?

      1. I agree unless the meeting is more personal interest than relevant to the organization.

      3. I agree – get home at 2am.

        I used to have a bicoastal lifestyle and getting home at 2 am was a fairly regular thing for me. I have never looked at a flight like that and thought it was out of the question.

    2. I’d get home at 2AM, but maybe that’s because I frequently fly west to east and that’s just how the cookie crumbles if I want to get anything done on the day I fly. I have a jacked sleep schedule anyway, so those hours aren’t going to ruin my weekend.

    3. I don’t think you should feel guilty. The standard work week is M-F, 9-5, and that includes travel time for work events. The conference organizers planned poorly if they put a key event on Friday afternoon.

      1. This seems pretty out of touch to me. Conferences and conference travel often extend beyond the standard 40 hour week.

        1. Agreed. Lol to anyone organizing a meeting considering travel time and ensuring it won’t max out over 40 hrs. That’s an impossible task for organizers and also, if I am organizing a conference, I will certainly do my best to schedule events to allow you to not have to travel at super weird times, but flights suck right now and I have zero control over whether you live in an area that has a three gate airport or a giant international one.

          This coming from someone who has strict boundaries and almost never works more than 40 hrs a week except when I am traveling.

          1. Yeah, I’m in higher ed and can’t remember the last time I put in more than 40 hours of actual work. But conference travel always spills over to nights and weekends.

          2. I used to commute from the west coast to the east coast 3 weeks out of 4. One of my friends in a different industry suggested that I count each direction of the trip as a full workday and only work the middle 3 days on the east coast. I had to just laugh. That’s not how most jobs work.

    7. I’d skip the afternoon meeting on Friday and get home reasonably. I routinely do this, no one goes to the last session on Fridays anyway. Note that in case you’re ever asked to speak at that time so you can decline.

    8. I have skipped afternoon meetings or left conferences early for professional orgs in the past, for travel purposes. However, since you said this was the main meeting you want to attend, in this particular case, I’d stay, and travel late or the next morning.

      1. Oh I missed that her main purpose was Friday afternoon. In that case, I’d do neither option – I’d pick which mattered to me more, the conference or the Saturday event and do one or the other. I’m not into 2am get home times, that would just ruin the event for me and so would super early morning travel. Absent Friday being the point, I’d leave the conference early.

    9. Why are you going to the conference? If the main point is to attend the Friday afternoon meeting then I don’t know why you’d bother to go at all if you’re going leave before that. Or are you just going because you need to make an appearance, but it doesn’t matter if you attend any specific sessions? I understand not wanting to get back at 2 am, but I think you need to think about what you’re trying to get out of it in order to make a decision.

      1. This is helpful, thanks. I would say the main point is to see people in person that I routinely talk to virtually. From what I understand, the Friday meeting is a planning session. My group’s planning is already complete. I think most people wait for the conference but some of our members can’t attend so we had our planning session (very) early. I’m not sure if the powers that be will come up with more stuff we’re supposed to do in person, but if they do, we’ll be missing key people anyway.

    10. Another vote for 2 am. I can’t imagine skipping work stuff for a non-work event unless the event was a close family member’s wedding or funeral.

    11. I wouldn’t waste anyone’s money going if you’re going to waltz out on the one important meeting.

    12. I routinely return home at 1 am Friday night/Saturday morning from business trips based on flight schedules to my local airport. It’s considered normal in my org, whereas leaving early would get me into trouble.

    13. If someone else is paying for you to go (either your job or the org) you need to actually go and not leave early for a preferred but not essential flight time. If this is something you are footing the bill for entirely, then seems fine to leave early if you would’ve a totally passive participant at the Friday meeting, but less cool if people will be expecting your input.

  13. Vicarious shopping help needed: I’m looking for unicorn pants. I need pull-on, elastic waist, comfortable pants (casual office environment). I like wide leg or tapered styles, ankle or floor length – I’m 5’3″. The problem is a recently got a walking pad to go with my standing desk, so I’m usually logging 2-4 miles a day. My upper legs touch when I walk, so all of my cotton blend pants are starting to pill. Are there any professional-esque pants like this that are made of a more athletic fabric that can hold up to this amount of daily activity?

  14. I just found out that my son’s 7th grade health ed class is teaching abstinence-only sex ed. My knee jerk reaction was “dumb red town not sure why I moved here” but maybe 7th grade is earlier than it should be?

    1. When I had sex ed in health class, which they did in middle and high school, it was abstinence-only due to state law. It was very stupid.

      1. When I had sex ed in health class, which they did in middle and high school, it was abstinence-only due to state law. It was very stupid.

    2. My 7th grade sex-ed (in liberal rich area) covered everything except how to become un-pregnant as they said it. It is not too early.

    3. It’s definitely not too early. We had very thorough sex ed in 5th and 6th grade when I was a kid and that felt pretty appropriate.

    4. I had sex at 15 so definitely not too early to teach safe sex! Better before than after.

    5. My kid had a very comprehensive class at our church (church is very liberal, but now that I think about it, a lot was framed in terms of consent vs how Tab A fits in Slot B) but it was so long ago that even with our very graphic public school classes, kid has no idea re male anatomy or basic functions of anything. Like has no concept that this is part of a loving and caring relationship between two people (vs something that is often non-consensual or enjoyable at all; it is sad that she only knows the downsides and maybe it is no wonder there is no interest in pursuing it).

        1. Yeah, I mean…I’m all for sex ed in schools, but it’s incredibly important to teach this to your kids yourself. I would never just rely on the schools, especially if I was unhappy with what was being taught?

      2. No interest in pursuing it as a teen is actually a great outcome! Abstinence is the best way to prevent unintentional pregnancy, disease, and emotional harm. We need to teach teach safer —- for harm reduction, but the ultimate goal should be —- only in committed adult relationships, by people who are old enough and mature enough to deal with the consequences.

        1. I think that if a person just thinks it will be painful and traumatic they may not pursue it as an adult or pursue healthy adult relationship and miss out on a fundamental part of being a person? Regardless of your orientation, loving adult relationship are rarely exclude a physical dimension.

          2. There are a lot of adults in loving but PG relationships?

            One of the things that got me over the embarrassment of the idea of a physical relationship was that everyone tends to wind up married and many married people had multiple kids (as a kid, maybe only 50% of adults now seem to have kids), so they all eventually did it and obviously more than one time, possibly for fun vs procreation. It was just a lot for my young mind to process (and being naked next to another naked person — not having the lights off was just also hard to process). But eventually we all get there.

            But if you are told so much about consent and about how 1 in 4 women will be raped in college if not before, I can see why a thing that brings great joy and much fun is not seen that way. Yikes. I hope that these kids find a happy medium. Kids are often not OK these days.

          3. No, they’ll just take it seriously and wait until they are truly mature enough.

        2. “the ultimate goal should be —- only in committed adult relationships” may be what you teach your children and that’s great for you, but at this particular moment in time it feels just like one more instance of having religious moral ideas pushed on everyone, whether they adhere to that religion or not.

          1. Yeah, sex can be great and fun and doesn’t necessarily need to be limited to committed adult relationships. I didn’t wait for marriage but my husband is the only person I’ve slept with. Looking back, I recognize how sex-negative my upbringing was and I feel like I missed out.

    6. What exactly are they teaching? Are they teaching about internal anatomy and how PIV makes babies? If so, that’s basically what I was taught in 7th grade in a suburb of Boston. Ninth grade featured discussions of contraception, STDs, etc.

      1. In my abstinence-only education (7th-9th grade) I learned:
        – external and internal anatomy (cl! toris marked but not explained)
        – how the sp3rm meets the egg
        – that condoms and the pill don’t work and the pill makes you fat and sad
        – that having se x with someone means having se x with everyone else they’ve ever had se x with
        – that waiting until marriage is what good people do, bad people bring icky diseases and a history with them
        – that having a baby would RUIN MY LIFE FOREVER!!! FOREVER!!!
        Small town in Ohio, early 2000s. It was not a good time.

          1. Co-sign — I’d love to put a kid of mine on it due to help alleviate or at least know when to start mainlining advil (or skip periods entirely), but it just makes me feel so off that I’m relucatant to subject a kid to it. Sometimes there are options but they aren’t great.

        3. Similar, small town Ohio, about 10 years earlier. Actually the approach to contraception was the most troubling. The instructor seemed to be implying that condoms don’t work, which meant it didn’t matter if you used them or not.

    7. We started sex ed in 6th (more in a health class learn about puberty/periods way) and then in 7th it was more of an ‘ask us anything you want to know’ situation which was super helpful. I honestly think 7th is too late for a first class as my junior high had a few girls who got pregnant in 8th grade.

    8. Fifth/sixth is standard where I live.
      My kids knew what was what before then though, so all we had to do was correct any misinformation they brought home.

    9. Way back in the early 1980s, I am pretty sure I had sex ed in junior high (7th and 8th grade) that was NOT abstinence only. We were taught that abstinence was the only surefire method of not getting pregnant, but it was more like a trick question – of course you won’t get pregnant if you don’t have sex! I am pretty sure we learned at least some basics about contraception.

      Got more details and information in high school, maybe 9th or 10th grade. I don’t think I ever heard of abstinence only sex ed in my childhood. We really seem to be going backwards on this as a society.

    10. In heathen NYC, our public schools teach the basics in 5th grade. A friend who teaches 5th grade doesn’t think it’s too young for her students. I got the talk from my mom before that point as well. I think level of detail can vary, but by 7th grade the kids are all talking about it (however misinformed) and some are probably even doing it/close to doing it so I would not think it’s too soon.

      1. Heathen Los Angeles, they do the basics in 5th grade as well. They did the same in my red rural town as a kid, everyone was fine with it. I was a little irritated that the 9th-grade curriculum was so abstinence heavy, but they did explain the basics of birth control.

    11. I went to a Catholic school where boys and girls were separated for sex ed class, which was not its own class, it was held during religion class. Starting in 6th or 7th grade, girls were taught how to track and temp our cycles to avoid pregnancy. C*ndoms and BC were not mentioned. Obviously you wait until marriage but after that a good wife never rejects her husband, so abstinence is only an acceptable contraceptive method before marriage. But also it’s not great for your body to be pg successively for decades so women need to take precautions to spread out pregnancies. It’s stunning to me that my backwards rural Catholic school was more progressive 30 years ago than present day public schools.

      1. Did your parents supplement this class in any way, even informally? I’ve known plenty of Catholic women who use BCP, whether for stuff like regulating their cycle (my very devout law school friend who really did wait until marriage) or because they didn’t agree with Church teachings on this stuff.

        When I was growing up in the 1980s in a pretty Catholic area, there were Catholic families who had 8+ kids, but an awful lot who had 2-3 (which is a pretty astounding success for the temp & chart method).

        1. I think they have modernized the temp & chart method a lot (there are devices you can wear and everything).

          I’m always curious whether the calendar method became less effective with each generation, as people with less regular cycles had (sometimes many) more kids!

          I wonder the same thing about the pill though, since there are a bunch of things that make it less effective (not taking it at the same time every day; taking it at the same time every day but not sleeping at the same times every day; other meds, etc.).

          1. +1 the temp and chart method is a lot more scientific and there’s groups of non religious people who don’t want hormonal bc that also use a variation of this but instead of abstaining during fertile times they use barrier bc methods. Still too risky for me but I get the appeal of not being on hormonal bc but also not using a c*ndom every time.

            The same research that has helped increase chances of pregnancy can be used in the negative to avoid pregnancy!

      2. I am very Catholic, and that’s not even the teachings of the church! We aren’t taught that wives can never refuse; in fact, a huge part of NFP is that both people should be deciding together when to be intimate and when to consider having another child. The teachings are pretty explicit that married people are called to exercise reason and control regarding their appetites – such as in the six weeks after a woman gives birth (and longer, if her body has not regulated enough for NFP to be reliable). NFP is literally called “periodic abstinence,” because if marriage were a s3xual free for all, we would be Protestants.

        I am not ranting at you… just at the people who can’t even get this right.

    12. Earlier than what should be? 7th graders can and do have sex. They should be getting comprehensive sec ed

    13. 7th grade isn’t too early. Teens should have the information before they get to age where gardening is on the table.

      In 5th grade we learned about the reproductive system and the mechanics of gardening. We also learned a lot about HIV and AIDS. In 7th grade they taught us which activities can and can’t lead to pregnancy, that gardening gloves prevent pregnancy and STI’s, that other forms of contraception (they were vague) don’t prevent STI’s. Sophomore year we learned more about specific contraception options and their efficacy.

    14. Seventh grade seems late to me. Can you ask your local Planned Parenthood for resources and have a series of talks with your kid? Or maybe create a group with other parents and hire a PP educator to do a series of sessions with several kids? Abstinence-only education is responsible for early pregnancy, bad relationships, abuse and a host of ugliness, (there’s lots of data on that), so I would view this is a mission critical launching issue.

      1. Omg, I’m just imagining how mortified I would feel as a 7th grader if my mother orchestrated a s3x ed session with other parents…… this should be supplemented by individual convos imo. It’s already awkward enough for the kids

    15. My school (private, very liberal, but in the south) started in 7th grade. My parents had already given me a solid basic education in the biology and mechanics in maybe 3rd or 4th grade. I think kids should start getting education on this as soon as they start asking questions, and at the latest when they start showing signs of early puberty. You don’t want girls getting their periods before they understand the reproductive system and cycle.

      I was also taught about basic birth control methods in sixth grade or so. That was also my mom. My school never provided a great education on that – they didn’t cover it until high school and the class was an elective.

    16. There’s a difference between not teaching about birth control methods at all in 7th grade and teaching abstinence-only. Regardless of whether you think 7th grade is too early to teach about birth control methods (it’s not IMO), abstinence-only sex ed in a public school is trash. I had sex ed in 7th grade in 1990 and learned all about the various methods available at the time.

      In your situation, I would talk to my son about how you don’t agree with certain things he may learn in that class and offer to answer any questions. If you don’t agree with abstinence only messaging, I think you need to articulate your family’s beliefs directly. In terms of educating him about the actual methods, you could look into getting a book for him — or maybe watch some of YouTube videos put out by health organizations. The Slate How To podcast has a great episode from September 2020 about “how to” talk to your son about sex that I recommend you listen to.

    17. It is not too early and I’d be inclined to send one of those notes that he’s not allowed to participate and then handle it on my own in your shoes. Probably wouldn’t actually do that but I’d be tempted. Definitely supplement bc that ish is a recipe for early physical activity in a knowledge void. I’ll bet the stats on teen pregnancy in your area are reflective of these idiotic attitudes.

    18. There were oral seggs acts on the bus when my son was in 6th grade. Teach your kids about consent before middle school.

    19. We had basic health ed stuff in 4th or 5th grade (like “girls get periods” type stuff) and more traditional sex-ed in I think 6th? grade. And it was not abstinence only. This was in the 90s in the deep South, but private school.

    20. Midwest public school. We had health class beginning in I think 5th or 6th grade, but it was about stuff like periods and hygiene basics, not sex. Sex was covered in I think 9th grade health class, which was definitely too late for some kids since some kids got pregnant in 8th grade. The teacher was apparently pretty unfiltered, and liked to overshare about her own sex life. As you can probably imagine, this was quite the scandal in a red state in the 1990s and lots of kids’ parents signed them out of the class (I’m still not really clear why the teacher kept her job for so many years). My parents were among the parents who had their kids skip the class, but it was because they wanted me to have room in my schedule for another academic class and not because of any real objection to the content (they allowed me to watch movies that were rated R for sex and language – but not violence – beginning in late elementary school). My parents never had much of a sex talk with me, I pretty much just…figured it out. I do remember my mom telling me to use birth control & get tested for STDs before having sex with a new partner. I was a late bloomer and didn’t have sex until college. I did make my college BF (who was not a virgin) get an STD test before we slept together, so I guess her very brief “talk” stuck!

  15. Any ideas for solo travel around Christmas? I’m early 30’s and love traveling, but don’t have as much of an interest in solo travel post-divorce. I’d like to change that by planning an itinerary that feels safe solo but exciting and gives me something to look forward to. No strict budget. I’d prefer staying in hotels (over hostels) and prioritizing good food, but other than pretty open to any experience. I’m also not super into Christmas so it doesn’t need to be somewhere where the holiday is a focal point. TIA!

    1. Are you thinking international or domestic? I visited San Sebastian last summer and was by myself for part of it and really liked it. I think any major european city would be good, although they may be Christmas-y.

    2. My husband and I were in Venice Italy around Christmas time. It is walkable and safe. Lot of hotel options and good food.

      1. I spent a solo Christmas in Venice and it was glorious. Venice was so empty on Christmas Day.

      2. I did Rome and Venice for Christmas and New Year’s one year, and it was perfect.

        I know you said your trip doesn’t have to be Christmas-themed, but it could be fun to have an excuse to do Christmas markets in Germany and/or Austria.

      3. Naples gets really into Christmas too; I loved walking past the creche figurine vendors and seeing all the decorations everywhere.

    3. I went to Croatia around Christmas one year (post-lockdown) and really enjoyed it. My itinerary was inland – Plitvice Lakes National Park and other small towns, with some days in Zagreb (I an not super into Christmas but still love seeing everything decorated and walking through the Christmas markets). I felt very safe and it was easy to get around in a rental car and it was inexpensive.

    4. I don’t have any amazing suggestions- but if you choose Europe keep in mind that many locations will have most stores etc close around Christmas.

    5. If you want to go someplace warm, I went to Argentina solo in December 2019. I went before Christmas because everything is so expensive during that week but it was an amazing trip! I went to Buenos Aires and Iguazu.

      1. I did the same in 2017, Dec before Xmas and I love it. I did Patagonia, Iguazu & Buenos Aires.

    6. If you want tropical, St. Martin is lovely and safe and has great food. The big downside to the Caribbean is that lodging can be really expensive that time of year, but we found a nice hotel on St Martin (Grand Case Beach Club) that was affordable for the Christmas-NYE week.

    7. I’ve done London at Christmas and it was pretty great. And I’ve always wanted to do NYC at Christmas.

    8. I had an idea to go to Dubai for Christmas because I’m divorced and my children will be with their father. I don’t know if I will be upset or not but I figured its somewhere warm and Christmas isn’t a big deal.

      I am thinking to go to my father. He is 80 next year so each Christmas feels like it will be his last.

    9. You can try Southeast Asia — Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia; or North Asia — Japan, Taiwan, South Korea. Christmas will be a shopping opportunity in all those countries, but not a focal point, and attractions won’t be closed for the Christian holiday. Or you could try South Asia — India, Sri Lanka. Bangkok, Tokyo, and Taipei all have excellent food and decent sights to see. Hotels in SE Asia provide great value for the price paid (although that is because labor costs are ridiculously cheap). Have fun!

      1. Tis true about hotel prices. The fanciest hotel I’ve ever stayed in is the Peninsula Bangkok and it was $150 a night.

  16. Yesterday I asked for closet app recommendations and someone mentioned the Articles of Interest podcast episode. I listened on my commute today. Thanks! That was really interesting!

  17. I’m looking for a sporty backpack (north face, etc) for my teenager. The north face jester is not big enough to carry her books and lunch. Any suggestions?

      1. Don’t the Fjallravens run pretty small? Not sure if that could handle a high schooler’s toting needs.

        1. Fjallraven comes in multiple sizes and styles beyond the ubiquitous Kanken. I use a 28L Raven for office commuting myself, but would go for something slightly larger if I had to haul textbooks.

          1. Don’t know how I didn’t know that, but thank you for getting me one step closer to my dream of being an adorable Scandinavian kindergartner in vibe at all times!

  18. I am about to meet with my PCP and request a prescription for Ozempic or one of the others, because I understand that it may have a Dopamine raising element that helps with binge eating. Does anyone know whether there is any research to suggest when you stop it, you gain more weight than you originally started with? I understand that the weight rebound is to be expected, but what I wouldn’t want is to end up wearing even more than I do today down the road. For Reasons, I don’t expect to take this forever, but I am not able to get the binge eating under control due to some specific life anxiety right now that won’t change for several years.

    1. I’ve had some chats with my NP about this and done some reading. It seems the people who are most successful in tapering down or weaning off these meds are those who make sustainable lifestyle changes along with it.

    2. I could be wrong but I don’t think it’s meant to be a temporary fix. Are you overweight or would it be just for the binge eating control?

      I’m on it and I plan to use it for life. It’s changed my life and I’m so, so grateful for this medication.

      1. I’m both. I have a very high level of anxiety that I’m doing everything else to fix, but is largely a response to life circumstances that can’t be changed. So my hope is when my life circumstances are different, I wouldn’t need the support from meds. That has been the case in the past. But I don’t want to be worse off either.

        1. I see your plan. This is a unique, tricky situation.

          Have you added an anti-anxiety medication, as well as therapy/behavioral changes? I ask because this is the longer term fix, as you may just have a higher set point anxiety wise and these things will help bring it down.

          But forgive me if you are maxing out that treatment already. I can see your PCP being very hesitant to prescribe this for your reasons. But who knows?

          1. Thanks, appointment over. She gave me a referral to a weight loss doctor, but wouldn’t prescribe it largely due to insurance reasons. It is a unique situation and yes, I am already on anti-anxiety meds.

    3. I’m on Wegovy. I’ve seen that the evidence about weight regain after stopping is still anecdotal for now.

      I will say that, as an emotional eater, you can out-eat this medicine. It doesn’t magically make you not want food if you eat for non-hunger reasons.

      1. +1 I can confirm. If you eat for entertainment or stress eat, you can easily overcome the appetite suppression that comes with these semaglutide drugs and continue to eat for entertainment or stress eat or whatever.

    4. just started compounded Wegovy (week 2) – from my research it sounds like the rebound weight gain comes down to people losing muscle mass along with fat, and then their metabolisms are tanked when they get off it… what I’m hearing (and doing) is that you really have to strength train and eat a ton of protein so you don’t lose the muscle. That said, the constipation is real so you have to eat a lot of fiber also… so between the protein and the fiber you’re really full all of the time.

      It’s the weirdest drug, really feels like everything I know I should be doing is 1000% easier than it’s ever been in the past.

      1. Are you sure that fiber is recommended? Wegovy slows gastric emptying and fiber is typically not recommended for constipation symptoms related to slow gastric emptying because it can exacerbate things or lead to complications.

        1. Huh I thought that was what the NP said… I’ll have to check. Things were ok this week.

      2. Tell me more about the compounded wegovy. My PCP didn’t know about compounded options at all and I wonder if that would solve the cost issue she seem to think was the gating factor here

  19. So I’m on a very tight budget. I pretty much never treat myself to something like getting a coffee and a bagel in the morning as it’s just never in the budget (neither are new clothes, any beauty treatment, getting takeout or eating out (though I do go to happy hour with friends, but only let myself get what’s on special), concerts, travel, etc). Pretty much my “fun spending” is limited to those happy hours and having a friend over to my apartment to split a bottle of wine and a frozen pizza.

    That being said, I’m taking tomorrow off and traveling to another state for a friend’s wedding this weekend. So, today on my walk to work I decided to treat myself to a bagel and coffee.

    I just got to work and opened up my order and both my coffee and bagel orders are wrong. I am oddly distraught. I know for most people a $10 breakfast is not worth being upset over, but for me this was a BFD and a rare treat and it’s so upsetting. I was already stressed about allowing myself the $10 for this treat; now, I’m even more stressed that I “wasted” the $10.

    Yes, I am in therapy for my financial anxiety. And yes, I am searching for a job that pays better.

    1. Oh no – I am sorry that happened! That stinks. Is the place close enough that you can go back and request that they make your order again? Sending you hugs! I know that is such a bummer.

    2. I don’t blame you for being upset. If the place isn’t too far, can you take it back and have them make it right? There are many places that I have stopped going to because they constantly messed up my order.

    3. I’m so sorry, that’s a huge bummer! I would be extremely disappointed in your shoes, too.

    4. I had one of those morning too where a coffee and bagel is easily going to be the highlight of my day. And I’d be right there with you if my order wasn’t right.
      I know there are bigger problems in the world (aka I have a place to live, a job, etc.). But some days it still can just be hard if you try to do one thing to make your day better and it doesn’t go right.
      Hugs.

    5. Thank you all for confirming I wasn’t overreacting :)

      Sadly, didn’t have the opportunity to go back and get it remade so I just ate a breakfast I didn’t enjoy. Next time I’ll check before I get all the way to work!

      1. I’ve had that happen to me, and I have called the place and they have issued me a credit to use next time.

          2. Yes I have done the same thing. Definitely call and get your money back.

            And OP – I’ve been there – both watching every penny, never splurging and getting really upsetting when such a small thing you are looking forward to gets messed up. I would feel exactly the same.

            So get your money back, maybe enjoy the “free” (less good… ) bagel, and have a lovely trip to the wedding. Dance a lot – it’s great for anxiety!

      2. You aren’t overreacting! If you have fewer opportunities to spend money to treat yourself, each one is more important. It would not be rational to think “oh well, I will just order a bagel and fancy coffee tomorrow and the day after and the day after… and they will all be delicious,” because that’s not your situation.

    6. I would totally ask them to remake it. Maybe that’s “Karen” behavior, but whatever.

      1. Asking for what you paid for, and particularly so when what you received is far from what was ordered, is not Karen, it’s reasonable.

        1. The whole Karen thing is just another way to make women shut up and put themselves last. I resent so much that an insult created by the hideously unfunny and misogynistic comedian Dane Cook has gained so much traction.

    7. I’m sorry, that is truly distressing and not something I think you need therapy about – that’s a rational reaction to a long-awaited ‘treat’ or convenience being wrong. I’d give yourself time to be annoyed/distressed, feel your feelings, and then try your best to let it go.

    8. I would definitely call the coffee shop, complain, and ask if they’d be willing to extend a credit for a future order (even if just for a coffee).

    9. I have been on that tight of a budget and am not now, and regardless of whether it was then or now I would feel just as bad about a wrong order! I recently had a Chinese restaurant give me crab rangoons in my takeout instead of egg rolls and I’m genuinely not sure if I’ll eat Chinese food again this year it was so upsetting.

      If it’s any consolation, you’re having a perfectly normal response. And I’m sorry this happened to your treat!

    10. Feeling you really hard this morning, so hugs.

      Woke up feeling slightly down, and have spent today so far feeling like Im one off hand remark from tears. For 100 reasons that are all so small and feel so silly – I cant keep my apartment tidy or a sink free of dishes, I cant seem to lose weight, or do pretty much anything at work without feeling like I have excuses for why nothings done correctly…etc etc.

  20. Just a comment that when people are looking for advice it’s helpful to include price points. Like when people ask for vacation ideas there’s a real range between camping, a cruise, an all inclusive, and a bespoke private experience. Or if you’re looking for pants are you talking old navy prices or Theory? There shouldn’t be judgement on this board about what people spend and there is so much snark but you can’t assume that when you say “pants” and are thinking “pants i can buy at kohls” that someone else won’t read pants and think “pants i can buy at bergdorfs”

    1. I think basic background information is always helpful. Where are you flying from when you want an “easy weekend trip”? What’s your body type when you want a “flattering” pair of pants etc.

    2. I hear you… but I admit, I also like the range of answers.

      Because I usually buy moderately priced clothing, occasionally cheap, occasionally not cheap. But I love it when someone shares a unicorn – the best wide leg cropped pant for my shape, the most comfortable stylish shoe etc… whether it is pricey or cheap. Because I’ve gotten so many good recs on this board that I am willing to splurge (or take a chance) on things when people here tell me too.

  21. I’m gonna complain for a minute. My office is 50% in person required. While 90% or more of our staff level teams comply with no issue (we’re super flexible about how you meet that 50%), the people who are awful about it are the SVP level managers.

    I’m a half step down from the worst offender (diagonal relationship) but we go back more than a decade. I swear, he has always skirted the rules but now he’s hurting my team’s morale when they show up in person while he comes in like once a week max.

    I am also just super annoyed because I really don’t want to be in person today but APPARENTLY I am the only senior person who could be bothered to show up for in person meetings.

    1. This. Appalling. So bad for morale. How big is your office (I assume pretty big if there are SVP level managers plural). Do you have a formal HR office and is there a written policy about remote work? i would raise it. this is not acceptable.

      1. Our HR department is either entirely hands off or weirdly authoritarian. I’m going to speak to this guy directly but it should get better once summer is over…

        See, we want to allow for flexibility… like for the elder care issue or my staff who has chronic pain days or people with kid or pet issues. Getting HR involved would mean they either 1) take WFH away for all of us or 2) get weirdly rigid when it’s really just a couple of people who are the problem.

        1. We have exactly the same problem! No enforcement of our 3-day-in-office policy means that more junior colleagues comply where those with more political capital bend the rules for themselves. The result is that the alleged benefits of in-person collaboration barely materialize and I felt like a total and complete idiot last week sitting alone in a conference room with 24 other people on video screens. Definitely a morale issue.

    2. I’m in higher-ed, and recently we had an organization-wide “listening session.” The two main issues were 1) there’s no one on campus, students can’t find staff and 2) everyone wants to be able to work from home.
      IMO I don’t think there’s ever going to be a “fair” way to do this. What grinds my gears is people who work from home 90% of the time having a full-time office reserved for them. It seems like a clear-cut case of “shuffle your feet, lose your seat.”

      1. I’m in higher ed too and don’t know anyone who is mostly WFH and has a full-time office reserved for them. We have the opposite problem. The university converted a lot of office space to other stuff in 2020 and now they want people back but have nowhere to put them.

      2. At my last job, management all had sunny offices with large windows, and rarely came in. Individual contributors were all required to work on site full time in our offices without windows. Talk about bad for morale.

        1. Op here – ew, gross. Definitely part of it is that because of weird real estate issues (mostly cubes), I am in a workspace without a door while he has a nice office (my staff sits right outside).

          I end up stealing his table frequently, but today it’s just annoying me. We were managers together at an old job with a coverage requirement and he was notorious for making his staff work allFridays before long weekends because he wanted to be out, so this isn’t new… just annoying.

    3. Vent justified. My husband was just in a meeting yesterday about a return to office plan with minimum days on-site being required. Every member of the leadership team presenting this plan was working from home in their T-Shirts. For context, they’re manufacturing company. So my husband, along with many other people are in-person everyday. I’d love to have the blind confidence of the people on their executive management team.

      1. Thankfully, the rest of the team isn’t as bad… one has had a persistent elder care issue which I actually have a lot of compassion for and understand why he isn’t in. (FWIW, we extend that grace to everyone.)

        Today it’s just grating.

    6. With my office, it is the flip side of what OP described. The managers and senior people are all following our 2 day in office requirement. A lot of the remaining employees seem to think it is a suggestion, rather than a rule. They also seem to think that showing up at 10:30 and leaving by 2 is a “day” in the office. I don’t supervise them, so I cannot say anything, but it grinds my rule-following gears.

  22. Random Tip – use chapstick as hand cream. I ended up with lot of chapstick and have started to use them as moisturizer. Easy to carry around.

    1. Huh. I have never thought about this. I have a ton of them around that I don’t use. Do you like the moisturizing you get from them?

  23. Just skimming the headlines and saw that Prince Harry is out with another(!!) Netflix documentary and alleging his family didn’t support him enough.

    Dude. Enough. The entire world thinks you need to spend a LOT of time on a therapist’s couch. Not to a tv interview chair. A therapist’s couch.

    1. To be fair, the point of the first documentary was to allege his family didn’t support him enough – this one seems to be about something else with a side of “family didn’t support me enough.”

      1. He’s not old enough to have a sequel. I think he aired his grievances from his life to date already. If he thinks some ground is not particularly well-trod, I believe he is the spokesmodel for a tech startup that can find him a virtual therapist.

    2. I’m pretty sure he’s contractually obligated to provide more content to Netflix, so it’s not like he had much choice about releasing more stuff. But I thought this one was about the Invictus Games (for disabled veterans), not really about him. I don’t follow this stuff that closely but I’m not sure it’s fair to focus on whatever small parts the press decides to focus on just to get clicks, when that’s not really the point of the series.

    3. When Harry and Meghan first left the royal family I was on their side. But I never hear about them using their fame and influence to bring attention to worthy causes. I only hear about them promoting themselves, disparaging The Firm, and begging for privacy…on public platforms. They’ve lost all goodwill I once had for them.

      1. Yup. And Meghan is reportedly going to be relaunching her career as an influencer. I was totally on their side when they said they wanted privacy and to raise their kids away from the intrusive media, but they just want to be famous on their own terms.

      2. Exactly. Both of them need to move on, but I don’t think they can. Something has to pay the bills, and bitching about family seems to be how it’s done.

    4. Have you watched it? It’s about the invictus games and spends more time focused on military veterans and their journey. I think it’s great he is highlighting the lack of support as an ongoing problem in this country, and of course he is going to connect his own actual experience in the military, returning from active duty.

      1. I love it when people bitch about stuff they haven’t watched! I will plan to watch this one.

    5. I would assume it was all part of a packaged deal he already signed up for. I do find all this stuff to be highly amusing, though.

    6. I mean another option is not to get riled up about stuff you clearly know little about. The documentary is about The Invictus Games which has been incredibly meaningful to service members. Most of the documentary focuses directly on veterans helped by the program. There’s enough Harry to draw eyes and that’s it.

    7. You aren’t wrong but a) you are bringing it up here and giving it attention, and b) Netflix would surely cut him loose if they didn’t get the ratings to make it profitable. We can go on and on about how it’s distasteful but if it sells, it sells.

    8. That’s not what the documentary is about at all. If you had spent 30 seconds googling you would have learned that.

  24. My daughter, who is 19, is in a business honors program in college that requires her to wear either business casual or business formal dress two days a week to class (depending on what’s assigned that day). She has to walk pretty far to get to class, and she’s used to wearing tennis shoes most of the time. She needs to get a pair of flats that would be neutral enough to wear with the small business capsule wardrobe that she has at school. She took a pair of flats that were nude with black toe caps with her, but the first day she wore them she ended up with terrible blisters from walking so far to class. Does anyone have any recommendations for comfortable flats that will go with all of her basic black or navy bottoms (skirts and pants), would work for her to walk that far, and look age appropriate for someone young. I feel like most of the flats/loafers that I wear trend older, and she doesn’t like them. I would love to find one pair that would work with anything she wears so that if doesn’t cost a lot. I feel like there are younger professionals here who could weigh in with advice/recommendations.

    1. Wear sneakers for the commute & switch shoes before going to the class/event. There are no business-y shoes that are going to be comfortable for walking a mile or more in.

    2. I wore Rothy’s a lot walking around my college campus. The arch support isn’t great, but at that age she can probably get away without it.

        1. I was also going to recommend Rothys, they’re what I wear when I need “business shoes” but also have to walk a lot.

      2. +1 This is what I would recommend. Campuses can be muddier and dirtier than city walking.

    3. I used to be in a similar program! And I absolutely would get a pair of unobtrusive black tennis shoes (Hokas, maybe?) for walking, and switch immediately upon getting to class. That or maybe Rothy’s. If anyone gives her grief about her “commuting shoes,” tell her to say it’s a medical issue (because it is, or it will be if she’s not careful).

      1. Actually, lol, tell her to say that this is what real business professionals do. And that’s what the program is for, to create those…

    5. Those Cole Haan oxford sneakers, although they’re kind of spendy for a 19 year old. Honestly I think any subtle sneaker is fine, like a pair that’s all black.

    6. 1. She should wear “commuting shoes” – comfortable sandals/sneakers/boots and switch to her formal shoes when she gets to class. Not only will she be way more comfortable, but she won’t wear out the formal shoes as quickly. She can roll her eyes at anyone who gives her the stink eye. What do they think they’re going to do when they join the working world? They’re going to wear commuting shoes.
      2. She should invest in blister block and/or moleskin to prevent blisters when she does wear the formal shoes. Even if she’s only wearing them during a school day in one building and not wearing them to commute to class, that could easily be enough to create blisters.

    7. Now that she knows where those shoes rub, she could also consider covering those spots with bandaids or moleskin so that she can walk in them.

      1. Uh, no. This is a terrible idea. Bandaids are expensive if you wear them daily and they come off with moisture.

        1. Yeah, moleskin is the answer here. Either tape it directly on her foot where it’s rubbing or on the inside of the shoe if if’s being worn barefoot. Or both, maybe. I would not recommend using Band-Aids either.

    8. Agree with rothys, or i like birdies. I’d also say look into the lug style loafers, which are a more on-trend style. I have the vionic brand of those, which are comfortable for decent walks. Nordstrom rack often has cole haan, which has some more comfortable styles. Also, plenty of people at my fortune 100 company wear clean, fashion forward sneakers with their suits. Not sure if that will be acceptable in college, but it starting to be more common.

    9. Occasionally, SAS and Clarks Cloudsteppers have ballet-esque flats or loafers that are cute enough to walk in and wear with dresses. They’re not quite formal enough for biz-formal. She should change for that. But they might pass for biz cas.

    10. She should do what all of us business women with walking commutes do: commute in sneakers and change our shoes

      1. Right. This is what I do when I business travel. I have a pair of “squisy” sneakers (currently Adidas slip-ons, but Sketchers slip-ons in the past) so they fit easily into the front pocket of my luggage or backpack, or purse in a pinch. But yet they are acceptable (not great, but acceptable) for walking long distances, or if I want to work out at the hotel gym.

    11. OP — My first response to her was to wear tennis shoes and change next time. You all have just confirmed that even for younger generations, this advice has not changed. That’s what I have done for years when commuting. I just haven’t been in a position to have much of a walk to work lately so I wasn’t sure. Thank you for all the recommendations for more comfortable shoes also. That’s helpful.

      1. Warning that Rothy’s absolutely give me and many others blisters; I will never understand the love for them. Also they are way ugly.

  25. DH and I had a fight about another couple’s fight (hate it when that happens). DH and I and the other couple are going to a mutual friend’s wedding out of town in a couple of weeks. Friend’s husband’s sister just asked him to give her a ride to the airport on the day of the wedding at a time that would require him to miss the wedding entirely. This is pretty typical of their relationship; sister walks all over husband, husband can’t say no, wife gets mad at husband and sister, sister tells off wife, and so on. I’m with wife on this one; sister can find another ride to the airport, husband should not miss a wedding for something anyone could do. DH is apparently with husband/sister. I thought maybe he was thinking about the cost, so I said we would obviously help your sister if she needed money for a cab. But no DH insists that if his sister asked him for anything for any reason he would drop everything and miss a friend’s wedding to be there for her; he went on a whole rant, which is very unlike him. When I tried to suggest other options he got oddly defensive. DH isn’t even that close to his sister so I found this very strange.

    My mother told me a while ago she overheard DH asking his sister if she needed “more” money and I brushed it off; afaik DH isn’t giving his sister any money and surely he would tell me if he was. But I’ve been trying to better track our budget recently and DH’s spending isn’t adding up to me. When I ask him where the money is going, he’s vague; tbf I’m constantly surprised I don’t have more than I do at the end of the month. I told him we need to find time to go over our spending since neither of us seems to know where our money is going. I haven’t really pushed it and he doesn’t seem thrilled about the idea. Now I’m wondering if the missing money is going to his sister? Which I realize is a big logical jump. I just can’t understand the weird defensiveness.

      1. +1 – Our finances aren’t totally merged either (we have a yours, mine, ours approach) but I do have total visibility/access to all of our accounts and our financial advisor is very aware of all big outgoing expenditures. I would ask for a full sit down and accounting of any big disbursements. Our policy is that anything larger than $500 is something we need to discuss together.

    2. Wow this story took a turn. Push for a detailed review of your spending. If the numbers don’t add up ask point blank if he’s financially supporting other family members. Best case scenario the expenses make sense and you discuss how to modify your budget. Worst case scenario he admits he gave away money without asking or you suspect he’s lying, but now you have a clear financial picture if you want to consider divorce.

      1. Yeah, what a twist! I would worry less about this other couple’s marriage and more about your own.

      2. Yeah, my eyes got real wide at paragraph 2. Agree with all of this. I don’t think it’s a big logical jump at all.

    3. Assuming you have access to your online bank accounts, it’s easy to see where your money is going: just look at the withdrawals.
      It’s harder to track what the money is being spent on, but just figuring out where the money is going is simple and you should do it today.

    4. This is bonkers to me for many reasons, many of which would prompt very serious introspection.

      However, on a purely etiquette note–“In a couple of weeks” presumably means the husband already said he’d be attending and the couple has made the seating chart, locked in the catering order, etc. How rude not just to his wife, but also to the couple getting married!

    5. My base assumption is that my husband comes first (and I expect him to put me first). Whether that’s time, money, emotional energy, where we live, where we vacation – unless he’s being wildly unreasonable (and he’s not, which is why I married him), he takes priority.

      My concern reading this is that neither your husband nor this other woman’s husband seem to grasp their priorities.

      As for money – nothing against separate accounts, which is what we do, but you should be on the same page about spending. Giving money to his sister IS spending.

      1. I am out of a marriage where his family of birth was his only priority and I got leftovers – leftover time, leftover attention, leftover caring. Given that his family was highly disfunctional, leftovers were pretty spare. I think OP needs to address marital priorities, marital finances, and this wedding, in that order.

        1. That stuff wrecks marriages! I don’t need to tell you that.

          It’s just unreasonable to expect a person to sacrifice everything for you, run their life according to the needs of the couple/family, make decisions that benefit the couple/family and not just themselves, be physically intimate, share finances, maintain a household together, bear and raise children, and… be content with leftovers.

          Some people really get high off of pushing married couples around. I think everyone knows deep down that friends, parents, and siblings come in second place to the spouse, and they just get a big thrill from “beating” the spouse. It’s a bit of a power play – will you bend to my will and put up with my crap, even to the extent of throwing your own spouse under the bus?

    6. Separate your finances.Put all of your household expenses and savings goals into a shared pot that neither can touch for anything else. Then whatever is left over for each of you is yours to spend. You husband can give his sister money out of his leftover money if he wants to, but no way should this be coming out of the household pot or your personal spending money.

      1. This seems reasonable.

        But yeah, OP trust your gut.

        I think this is heading towards a huge blow-up / fight…

    7. Yeah this is very off. I’m not following the driving logistics but is it right he said he would drop everything and miss a friends wedding to … drive his sister to the airport? Does she have significant special needs? His response alone suggests they have a very unhealthy level of co-dependency or I don’t know what going on. The money thing is also a red flag. Have you directly said hey your mom made this comment, re you giving money to your sister and for how long and how much? You need to sit down and do a very clear accounting, maybe on your own first to see what you can figure out and then together.

    8. Paragraph 1 – this is crazy! Of course it is not okay to miss a wedding to give someone a ride. Wife will have to figure out what to do in her own situation though, not your circus.
      Paragraph 2 – Insist on the sit down and review everything. You can do it in a “fun” way, with a bottle of wine. If the outcome of that review is not good, or if he refuses, then separate your finances. If what your gut is telling you is true, he’s stealing money from you and you need to protect your interests.

    9. It’s your marriage that has a big problem not your friends. Your husband is stealing from you( more or less ). You should call the sister and say “I know about the money DH is giving you and it’s stopping now” and see what happens. They are playing you for a fool OP.

      1. Ehhh there’s no reason to go scorched earth like that. The OP doesn’t say, but she might be ok with her DH giving his sister some money from time to time as long as she knows about it and what it’s for. We don’t know the amounts here or how often it’s happening. $200 every couple of months is very different from $1000 a month to cover rent or whatever.

    10. Umm, yeah, I agree this story took a dramatic left turn and would definitely focus on the finances and not worry about the friend. How are you splitting up finances? We have yours/mine/ours accounts. I don’t have access to or worry about what he’s doing with his, but we both definitely have full access to our joint accounts and it’s very normal for us to say “oh- what’s this charge?” Are you using Mint or another budgeting software?

    11. My husband is super close to his sibling and no way would he miss a wedding for this reason or give them money without discussing with me first. Red flags.

  26. Any tips for managing/coping with unemployment?
    My husband was recently laid off (software developer) and it’s been 2 months of searching so far. He got his degree last year in his early 30s after years of working on it, then got a position that lasted a year. It was a very large company that did a massive hire spree then didn’t have the work to support all those hires, resulting in a big layoff. It wasn’t a good first job experience. He’s struggling, as am I, in supporting him. We don’t have a ton of savings, as I was supporting his when he was in school and we got married last year, and just haven’t had the time to save up yet. With unemployment and my salary we’re doin OK, though.
    I just wish his working experience post-degree was better. Any wisdom? The thing I keep telling myself is that this is temporary, and will not be forever, but…I just want better for him.

    1. Oh man, I totally, totally hear you. My H had almost two years of working a soul-sucking retail job and getting rejection after rejection from jobs he actually wanted, after getting a degree that should have opened all the doors. It was baffling, and it was a really hard time to be his partner because he was so down about it. Things I learned:
      -compassionate listening. Don’t say, “Oh, be positive!” when it sucks, any more than you’d say, “Oh, but what about this shitty thing?” when it’s good. Empathize.
      -find other ways for him to contribute to your shared life (housework, etc) and thank him for them.
      -tread carefully when sending him job postings. Sometimes my husband appreciated this, sometimes he didn’t. I learned to ask, “Hey, did you see the one at Company A?” because often the answer was yes.

    2. From a job perspective, is it he interested in just staying on the software developer side or is he open to other tech roles that could use his software knowledge? There’s definitely some space in the cybersecurity space where a software developer knowledge could be useful if he’s interested.

      But also, Vicky’s advice is helpful in terms of how to manage/cope from a marriage perspective, so I would only bring the cybersecurity thing up if he’s interested in hearing it.

  27. I am thinking of getting a top loader speed queen. Husband is worried it’ll be too harsh on clothes. I hate our front loader because the gasket gets so gross despite careful cleaning and care. Our other option is the front loader Electrolux.

    Any thoughts?

    2. Love my top loader speed queen. Never had an issue with it damaging clothes, including delicates like bras and washable merino wool sweaters.

    3. Love our top loading Speed Queen. It is not rough on clothes if you use the appropriate setting for the clothes being washed. It is built very well. Many years, no issues.

    4. I just got one the other week (RIP to my 1980s washer), but so far I love it! It just feels so solid.

    5. I LOVED my Speed Queen washer when I was on a temporary assignment in company housing, and it’s on my list as a replacement whenever my current washer dies. It had a super-short cycle, so none of this 2-hour wash cycle nonsense. Bear in mind that the speed is due to use of a hellacious amount of water, in case conservation is important to you. My model was the one that used manual dials, and then it was replaced with an updated digital-control version. Both were great!

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