This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
White pants in the office are a bold choice, but if you can go a full day without getting ink or coffee on yourself, I think you can make these work. I like that these have a traditional bootcut shape and have a little stretch to them. They’re also “wrinkle-resistant,” so they're great for packing or for those of us who are just averse to ironing. I would wear these with a black or navy blouse, but you could also do lighter neutrals (tan, pale pink, pale gray) if you’re channeling your inner Olivia Pope.
The pants are $89 and available in sizes 00–16 in short, regular, and long inseams — and in petite sizes, too. They also come in black. Effortless Bootcut Pants
For plus sizes, try these bootcuts from Misook, which are available in white and black.
This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!
Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.
Sales of note for 11.5.24
- Nordstrom – Fall sale, up to 50% off!
- Ann Taylor – Extra 40% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 25% off with your GAP Inc. credit card
- Bloomingdales is offering gift cards ($20-$1200) when you spend between $100-$4000+. The promotion ends 11/10, and the gift cards expire 12/24.
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Fall clearance event, up to 85% off
- J.Crew – 40% off fall favorites; prices as marked
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – New sale, up to 50% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Buy one, get one – 50% off everything!
- White House Black Market – Holiday style event, take 25% off your entire purchase
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
In-House in Houston
Good morning ladies! Does anyone know of a service where I can get make-up applied without the pressure of buying a lot of product? I know I could go to any department store, but there’s always pressure to buy their product. I’d love to go to someone who could help me update my look with make-up and of course, suggest some products without the heavy sales pitch. Of course I have no problem with someone making a commission, but I’d like someone to recommend the best products for me, from various lines. I get my eyebrows shaped every 4-6 weeks, stopped wearing mascara and heavy liner on my bottom eye-lid/lashes about 2 years ago, but other than that I’ve had the same make-up look for years. I’m mid-40s and I’m sure I could use a refresh. I’m in Houston. TIA!!
Anon
Sephora will do this. I think they have free with minimum purchase options and a pay in advance option. I’d give your local store a call.
anon
+1 for sephora, esp since you want multiple product lines.
Angela
Many salons/spas have a makeup application service you can pay for. Beautique in Rice Village is one I know of for sure that does it.
Ann Perkins!
A lot of full-service type salons do this. I never thought about it until I had my makeup done for a wedding I was in and couldn’t get over how much better my face looked than when I do it myself!
Anon
I know you asked for “other than department store” but I have found Clinique to be very low pressure. In the past I’ve just bought a lipstick or concealer. One lower cost product and they seem to be perfectly happy. There was no high pressure to buy all the fancy serums or anything like that. I think that’s in part why I’ve been a loyal customer for so many years.
Anon
I went to an ULTA’s salon service to do this (like the part of the store where they do hair cuts and stuff). You can pay to get a make up consultation. I found it super helpful. Also, since they sell low and high priced brands I felt like I got real answers when I would ask for each thing if I needed a high end brand or if a low end brand would be fine. Since I paid for the service, and as far as I could tell she did not make commissions off of my purchases (they were a separate transaction) it was very low pressure.
(There may be counters in an ULTA where you can also get free advice, not sure, but those might be brand specific and I liked the thoroughness the paid service provided).
Anon
You can make an appointment with a Nordstrom beauty director and she should be able to help you across all brands. After you have your makeup done, say you want to see how the makeup wears on your skin before coming back to buy anything. This is good advice anyway but it can reduce the immediate sales pressure.
Anon
I did a lesson with a local big-name makeup artist. Maybe there is someone in your city who does the same. I think any lesson at a store will include a sales pitch simply because it is a store.
Heather B
I have done this before at a hair blow dry place; they also offered makeup application. I was surprised at how much I liked the results!
Disability Insurance
I had a health scare last year. Luckily it ended well, hopefully without the kind of pre-existing condition that would likely be a problem, but it drove home my mortality and singleness – and has me considering investing in disability insurance. I’m an early thirties, single, no kids, big law associate with group disability coverage through the firm. I’ve found a large number of resources about disability insurance for physicians, but am not sure how much of that advice transfers. Did you get additional coverage? When/how? How did you decide how much to get? My future earnings are up in the air – if I became a partner, I’d earn more than I do now, but if I went into the government/in house, I’d take a paycut. Any advice on how to find a broker or pitfalls you identified through this process? Thanks!
Anon
I considered it, but figured that the disability insurance provided by my biglaw firm which would have replaced 60% of my income was sufficient. When I left, I got the option to continue the insurance with that company. If you think the firm’s disability insurance is good enough for now, I would check with HR about whether you get an option to purchase it when you leave.
Anonymous
Not a lawyer, but my spouse is using his disability insurance so I have a few tips:
– generally, even if your firm pays for the premiums, if you have an option to do so with after-tax dollars, any payout will be tax-free, which can have an enormous impact on what you review. If they pay, you pay taxes.
– you want own-occupation coverage, not any-occupation coverage – that way, if you are disabled such that you can’t be an attorney, the policy will pay out. With any occupation coverage, they won’t pay if you can be employed in a different job, which could be anything. It will be more expensive.
– Most policies only cover up to 60% of your income anyway – they don’t want to incentivize people by paying more than that.
Anon
Not OP but this was very helpful. Thanks!
mascot
When I moved to a firm that didn’t provide disability, I enrolled in an LTD program through my state’s bar association. They offered competitive rates for own-occupation coverage and I’m covered until 65.
Anon
Advice I got also was that if you leave your job, the insurance likely doesn’t follow you. Then, you will be that many years older, needing private insurance. Since I was/am always sort of considering an exit from my job that otherwise has great insurance options, I got the additional third party insurance now, at 35 and healthy, so that I wasn’t trying to go through the physical exam stuff when I was X years older, and it would be presumably more expensive.
Anon for this
I bought disability insurance because I am financially responsible for myself and my kids. My now ex husband never made money and I don’t trust him to take care of my kids if anything happened to me. Its expensive, about $12K a year, and only would pay me $150 K a year if I were to be disabled, even though I earn substantially more than that (and told them). But better than nothing.
Anonymous
Here’s the thing about disability insurance – it’s not nearly as cut and dry as it seems. DH and I just went through a whole analysis on ours and my take aways were (some mentioned above) –
– Do you pay taxes on the insurance payments now, or would you pay taxes if you needed to use it (in which cause it’s a future cost to consider)?
– How long would it pay out for? Usually it’s 2 years of disability from your current occupation, and then after that, the requirement for payment is that you are disabled from being able to do *any* job/.
—–So, if you suffer an injury and cannot be a lawyer anymore (some traumatic brain injury that impairs your thought process), it seems like most LTD will pay you 60% salary for two years. But, then let’s say two years pass, you can be a cashier at CVS (or some typical job). Now, because you can do the CVS job, LTD will not pay out any more.
-Does it pay 60% of base pay AND bonus? Or just 60% of base pay?
– Does your premium include a cost of living adjustment?
My husband works at Wells Fargo, for example (huge number of employees, LTD is optional, but not terribly expensive. I’m in biglaw. It’s astronomically expensive for me to have LTD, and it’s actually required by the firm. BUT, I’m currently paying taxes on my LTD (so I wouldn’t pay taxes at the time if I needed to us LTD), and it will pay 60% of my salary when I got disabled until I am no longer disabled from being an attorney or I am deceased , AND includes COL adjustments. So, right now, I have awesome LTD insurance, and we got him supplementary LTD insurance since his has the 2 year “cap”.
Anon
As with all insurance, the devil is in the details, so have the HR person or your firm’s benefits consultant explain the coverage in detail. As a Biglaw partner who was on the firm’s benefits committee, our firm’s coverage is better (and I thought most firms offered better coverage)– provides “own occupation” coverage, not coverage only if you can’t do any job at all, lasts until age 65, includes COLA adjustments, you can opt for after-tax benefits, etc. While the firm’s basic policy covers 60% of base salary (no bonuses), you can purchase additional layers of coverage for a not-inexpensive price, and the additional amounts are portable if you leave the job.
OP
Thanks to everyone for chiming in. You gave me great questions to situate myself!
Ellen
You need to get married NOW to a guy with a good job and insurance coverage so that you can have kids and be covered for that and not have to bill like me until you are 65. I missed the boat by being very dedicated, but not taking up the offers of a few eligible guys who were interested in doing more then haveing s-x with me. Like a fool, I passed up a chance to be married to an MD, and now he is very serious with another woman who is not as smart as I am tho she is very pretty, and my best days are behind me and my looks are fading Dad says. Listen to my advise and cash in your assets now by finding a decent man, marrying him and working on TTC ASAP! YAY!!
OP
hi hive!
I’m risking outing myself but I am at a career crossroads and could really use some wisdom from this group.
I am a sixth year NYC biglaw associate. My reviews have been extremely positive and at my last review I was told I am on track to make partner. I understand that’s not guaranteed due to many factors out of my control, but I do feel good about my chances if things continue. The firm checks a lot of boxes for me: pay (obviously), prestige, working with sophisticated clients, and it’s big bump that they absolutely love me and give me flexibility when I need it.
My SO is a medical resident who is looking at one year fellowships right now. The fellowship would not start until next summer (July 2021), but he has to choose the fellowship in a few weeks. The top fellowships he likes are (in order of how much he likes the fellowships): LA, Dallas and NYC.
Basically, if he chooses the LA or Dallas fellowship, I will need to find a new job in one of those cities for that year (Summer 2021-Summer 2022). Being long distance for that year isn’t an option. If I am willing to leave my job, he will choose LA or Dallas. If I am not, he will choose NYC. So essentially, I need to choose now whether I will stay in NYC at my biglaw firm for the next few years and try to make partner, or leave my firm sometime before next summer when the fellowship starts. The NYC fellowship is still extremely good so it’s not a huge step down for him to choose that one. My SO is supportive of me in whatever I choose to do.
Job considerations: I am increasingly unhappy at my job: the hours, lack of predictability, and abrasive client personalities are taking a toll on me. I also look at the partners and don’t see any real role models for me: there are no married female partners in my group, let alone those with kids or with a spouse who also has a big job, and the male partners who are my mentors all have wives who don’t work. I also see how often and much the partners work and see the level of stress they handle and question whether I want this. The partners have zero “off” time: they are always at a clients beck and call (even now when I am on vacation I receive coverage so I can check our—partners do not get this luxury). I am also coming off of a truly terrible 3 months where I worked through thanksgiving and the holidays with a lot of stress and pressure on multiple matters. The rest of 2019 was fairly relaxed though. My work is always like this: either very relaxed, or extremely demanding. Very rarely is it in between. The relaxed times make it hard to leave: I get paid so well and it’s so prestigious and I have so much flexibility! But then the other shoe always drops and I’m billing 80-100hour weeks, under intense pressure, and feel like I’m crumbling from stress. I do not think this will change as I become more senior or make partner. I think if I do not stay in biglaw at my firm, I would try to go in house. I understand I would take a pay cut and lose flexibility, but would have more predictable hours and lifestyle.
Location: I have an amazing group of friends in NYC. I know this would be difficult to recreate in a new city. However, as we are all getting older/married/having babies, we see one another less and less. I don’t have family in NYC. I also have been here for 6 years and am kind of itching to try out a new place. I love NYC but don’t feel like I “need” to stay here. I do worry that if I do not become a partner, my SO and I will be priced out of NYC (physician salaries are on average lower dollar for dollar in NYC than other cities, and we want children). I am open to living in LA or Dallas, at least for the year of fellowship, and then going from there to find a place to make our home (maybe in one of those cities, maybe in a smaller city or my hometown (SEUS MCOL)).
So, please give me your thoughts and advice. I am wrestling with this decision in a big way.
Anon
My first thought is it would not be terrible for your career to quit biglaw and take a job in LA/Dallas for just one year, and then move again. Sounds like career suicide. If you did that with the intention of staying in LA/Dallas long term, then that’s very different. If LA/Dallas is just a 1 year thing, your SO should go there, you stay in NYC biglaw, and reasses your options once he knows where he will be after the fellowship.
Anonymous
+1000. No way would I move for a year, then move again. Only would follow SO if he knew he’d stay in that area after the fellowship. And not in a “well, maybe I’ll stay”. Definitively, we want to end up in city X, and this fellowship gets us there.
OP
do you mean “would be terrible”?
Anonymous
Clearly
Anon
Yes, sorry! “Would be terrible…”
Anon
I think this is the crux of it and really nothing else about the situation matters. If you were in a different line of work, moving for a year and then moving again might not be that big of a deal. But for you, where you are at, it is a big deal. I am not sure why “long distance is not an option” – you are in NYC which has daily direct flights between both Dallas and LA, so I don’t think you’d have to go long stretches without seeing each other. One year seems long but it’s not that long. Truly. The time will go by fast. Also, anecdata if it helps: my aunt is a physician and did a fellowship in another city far from where she lives. Her wife went with her. After the year was over, my aunt’s wife said she wished she had just stayed home, because my aunt worked so much they barely saw each other, and it was lonely and isolating being in a big city, far from home, where she didn’t know anyone and didn’t feel invested in making friends because they were leaving in a year. My aunt ended up back in our hometown after the fellowship and has stayed here ever since.
I understand it’s hard when you’re younger and really in love but if you want to be together over the long term, and do what’s best for both of you and for your eventual family, I think the right thing is for you to stay and him to move and then figure out where you both want to end up after the year is over.
Anon
Yeah, this. Only move if you are wanting to relocate there permanently. If you want to be in NYC longterm, you should both stay there now. You can jobhunt for something new in NYC if you want to leave your job.
I would also consider long distance (and have done it multiple times in my relationship with my husband, including after we were married), but if you don’t want to do it, you should stay in the city you want to live in long-term.
The original Scarlett
A couple of thoughts, but you’re the only one who can truly choose. On the “it won’t get better as a partner” – I thought that when I was a 6th year too and time has shown me that was incorrect. At your level (and for a while more still), it is unrelenting because you are the “do-er of the things”. As you rise, you are more available, yes, but you have do-ers to do the things and you’re just more in charge so you’re more in control. I wouldn’t jump off over that in hindsight.
On the what to do w Dallas or LA, if you’re at a biglaw shop they probably have offices elsewhere so you don’t have to start over I’d think? I might start there
In-house is a great career path too, but only if you’re more business oriented – I’ve seen people struggle sometimes out of a firm. That said, you’re at the sweet spot to go in-house experience wise. It gets harder the more senior you are.
And only you can know your relationship so this is just coming from someone who used to get more serious about people than they were about me, but make sure he’s worth giving up your life for and that’s he’s as into you and will equally support your career. A partner who is equally excited for and supportive of your success is just critical.
The original Scarlett
Oh I glazed over the one-year factor, I absolutely would not move for a one year term with your career. At best see if you can work out of your firm’s LA or Dallas offices during the time period, but trying for a one year stint somewhere else is a career hurdle you don’t need to create for yourself. I thought you were contemplating a long term move. I’d stay in NYC for the year and make a career decision independently from his fellowship plan. After all, thats what he’s doing….
The original Scarlett
Even more thoughts here – don’t discount your life and friends where you are. I have the same thing in SF and have stayed here largely because of a huge social network. Babies are a season and there’s a time where you see your every weekend friends every once in a while. But kids grow up and when they’re around 10-12, your friends come back. Having a vibrant life that’s got more in it than just work and your immediate family is something to also factor in.
Anon
Also, babies make a social network more important, not less. It’s true that you won’t see them as much for awhile, but you *really* won’t have time to invest in making new friendships. You will probably naturally pick up some fellow parent-friends through daycare, etc., but in my experience those take years to turn into meaningful relationships. In the interim, you will be so glad to have a strong network of friends in your area, even if you don’t see them as often as you’d like.
Signed, someone who moved just before having my second kid and still misses my old friends
Anon
SAME. Except I moved before having my first baby. It’s so isolating to have a baby or toddler in a town where you don’t know anyone. I’m friendly with daycare moms, but they’re not BFFs and I feel like they never will be.
Angela
To me, this is a very strange framing of the question. Why are the options (1) stay at BigLaw firm for the next few years or (2) get random one-year job in LA or Dallas then ??? afterward. I would suggest thinking longer-term than the one-year fellowship–what is your long-term goal? If it’s to be in LA or Dallas long term, then it makes sense to go ahead and move there. If not, it doesn’t make sense to move across the country, planning to move again one year later (for you).
Also why is being long distance for the year of the fellowship “not an option”? A year is such a short amount of time in the context of both of your careers. This plus the fact that you’re not married leads me to wonder if something is going on with the relationship, but I could be totally off base.
Honestly, if you wouldn’t be considering leaving NYC but for your SO’s fellowship opportunity, and he’s willing to take the NYC fellowship, I would stay put. That doesn’t mean you have to stay at your firm — there are other jobs in NYC you could take.
Anon
“This plus the fact that you’re not married leads me to wonder if something is going on with the relationship, but I could be totally off base.”
Not entirely because I had the same thought. OP, I’m going to make a lot of assumptions and projections here, but: if long distance isn’t an option because you feel like if you aren’t physically together the relationship won’t make it or someone will cheat? Do not move and leave your job, full stop. If you two are meant for the long haul, a year isn’t that big of a deal.
Senior Attorney
This. I suspect he is going to be working very long hours in his fellowship and I feel like the year will fly by even (or maybe especially) if you stay put. And Lord knows there are plenty of flights between NYC and LA.
Anon
The only viable options I see here are that he takes the position in NYC or you guys do distance for a year. Once he is at the point of picking a longer-term position, then you guys can start reasonably talking about whether you want to quit your job, upend your life and move to someplace new you presumably know little about. Why would you do that to follow him for 1 year when him staying in NYC (or doing distance!!) are so reasonable.
Anonymous
This. Whether you follow him later on is a different question from following him for one year. Changing jobs twice in a short period to follow your partner will tank your career and provide minimal benefit to His.Firms will assume you will leave again if he moves or you will leave when you have a baby to support him. Play the long game, where do you want to be after the residency year? Aim for that job.
The only remotely possible option I could see is if you can arrange a one year in house counsel secondment to a key important client in one of those cities.
Anonymous
BigLaw partner, not NYC, married, spouse works, with kids: being a partner is like that, probably no matter where you go, but as a junior partner, there are more senior partners and senior associates, so the work can be juggled up and down a bit. I think the key is to be in a larger group. I’d see the presence of married women with children as a canary in a coal mine — their presence is good; their flight is a sign.
I don’t see why remote working for a year isn’t an option, but I’d pose it to your firm b/c they’d probably like to keep you. While in LA (I’d not recommend; my firm’s Dallas office has a working grandmother partner as well as several women with kids; taxes are SO much lower) or Dallas, I’d network the h*ll out of things and figure out what your options are in your practice area.
FWIW, NYC with kids is a hard slog and my guess is you will quit or spend all your $ on housing / childcare and the commute will eventually kill you or your career or your marriage or you will get the point where you will happily flee to Dallas / Houston / Charlotte / Raleigh / Atlanta (which isn’t bad, just that misery often precedes it).
Anonymous
Stay in NYC. It’s a terrible idea to quit, job hunt in another city, and then quit again in a year. He can do the NYC fellowship or you can do long distance. Since you seem committed to this dude who doesn’t sound like your husband, if you’re planning to relocate to him as needed depending on his post fellowship job, that’s the time to move.
Anonymous
I would ask to work remotely for that year (assuming your firm doesn’t have an office in LA or Dallas). My biglaw firm has allowed this for several reasons, including SOs getting temporarily transferred. That gives you breathing room to figure out your longterm plans. If you do come back to NY afterward, you may be a year behind on the partner track, but it sounds like partnership is something you think you should want, but don’t really want.
TheElms
This +1000
Anon
I’m assuming you have a non-obvious reason not to want to do long distance because honestly for one year, it’s not that bad (I’m probably a little biased on this point because my husband and I did three years of long distance with him in med school and me working in big law where we saw each other every 4-8 weeks). Because I agree with the others that a short term stint in one city without plans to stay at least in that region afterward is not going to go well.
Given your practice area, would it be hard for you to find a different job after doing one more year in NYC if you decide against staying in this life?
OP
Thank you for the input. The non-obvious reason I don’t want to do long distance for the fellowship is that we have been long distance for years (5+) already. For the relationship, which is incredibly important to me, it is time we are in the same location.
Anonymous
Then he should take theNYC fellowship so you can figure out if this is a real relationship or not before upending your career for someone you only know at a distance.
anon
+1
Cat
+1,000,000
OP
Thanks. Should have been more clear. We are married.
Anonymous
Then he should take the NYC job because he’s your husband and he should be supporting you as well and quitting and moving and then doing it again in a year is stupid.
Cat
OP, you’re coming across like an adverse witness here. Maybe try posting again with this information up front?
“My husband and I have been in a long distance marriage for 5+ years and I’m sick of it. I really don’t want to hold out 1 more year until we can be in the same location, but don’t want to commit career suicide either. I’m very well-regarded at my NYC Biglaw firm. Although the easy answer is for my husband to do his one-year fellowship in NYC, LA or Dallas may be way more advantageous for him. Help me figure out how to balance my career with his career in a way that is most mutually beneficial please!”
My answer to THAT would be — either he does the fellowship in LA, or you ask to transfer to the LA or Dallas office of your firm. The risk of the transfer is you’re “out of sight, out of mind” from your current colleagues, and if you ultimately want to settle in NYC (or somewhere that’s not LA or Dallas), you’ll have some explaining to do when interviewing or asking for yet another transfer.
Cat
Gah, typo in my response above — either he does the fellowship in NYC (not LA). Too little coffee.
Anon
Yes yes yes yes yes.
OP, for real – now is not the time to be drawing a line in the sand about closing the distance gap. Also, gently: it sounds like he maybe had a chance to close the gap and he didn’t, by finding a fellowship in NYC or somewhere near there (NJ? Pennsylvania? Why LA or Dallas only?). So…maybe you have an answer here.
Anon
I agree with Anon @ 10:23, very strongly.
Anonymous
In fairness to her husband, depending on specialties, fellowships can be hard to get, so he may not have had a lot of options nearby.
Anon
Then he should take the NYC fellowship.
Anon
I know the feeling – after three years of long distance, we got married and did another year of medium distance (driving to see each other on weekends he wasn’t working as a resident – I worked remotely as needed). When I found out we’d have to do another year of that, I cried and cried. So I get it – and at that point, he should take the NYC fellowship and you should spend that year really considering your options and goals so that when he’s done, you’re ready to take the next step together.
Anon
OK, I get this. Long distance does get old after awhile. But he just needs to take the NYC fellowship. In a relationship, both parties need to make sacrifices, and in this situation his sacrifice is much smaller than yours.
Only exceptions are if you work out something where you don’t leave your firm, or if you’d want to live in Dallas long-term (I’m assuming not LA since it doesn’t really solve the HCOL issues). Otherwise, you both stay in NYC next year. If you want to flee NYC at some point after that for quality of life reasons, you’ll be in a much better position to do so if you are still at your current firm, or at another job that you’ve put 2-3 years into.
Anon
He should take the NYC job. Two jobs in two years would tank your career. Moving twice for him when he has a decent opportunity in NYC just because it’s not his favorite would be expressly saying your career doesn’t matter at all compared to his.
Anon
I don’t understand why long distance isn’t an option. If you love your job and want to make partner in a law firm, you’d be crazy to walk away at this stage from a firm that has been positive about your partnership prospects. If you absolutely won’t consider long distance, your husband should take the NYC fellowship.
Anonymous
I sort of disagree — I think she should push for long-distance b/c IDK why a firm wouldn’t give it. I am in CLT and we have tons of legal spouses here working in their dining room for their NYC firms still.
Also b/c in CLT: half of our laterals and 3/4 of our senior ones are NYC refugees moving to a MCOL city b/c they find that married + kids in NYC is nuts and they need a reset. Often one spouse gets a job here and they move. One spouse may work remotely for a year and figure out of that will work long term and often it doesn’t but they have the network by then to make the transition they want (lateral move, in house, etc.). One spouse is on Y6 of working remotely for an NYC firm with 2 kids and a working local spouse.
I’d use it as way to test the waters. Otherwise, you get to the same place later when it may be more critical and you have less time to kick around other parts of the country. TX is lovely and has no state income tax.
Anonymous
I’m also in CLT (maybe at the same firm as Anon at 9:54?? If so, hi!) but if you’re in NYC big law, the chances that you have an LA and Dallas office are huge, so I would start there with working remotely. Or, staying in NYC and basically splitting time between the two offices? My firm seems to not really have much of problem (or maybe it’s just my practice group) with people working out of other offices. I wouldn’t see a problem with this. There was one lateral in my group who started in DC, her husband got moved to Texas so they moved there and now he got moved to Germany so she works out of one of German offices (but I think actually works from home because where they are in Germany is not near the city where the office is)? And I imagine if her husband gets moved again, she’ll be able to move again. Anyway, it’s a part know your office thing, but remember you have some amount of power – you’re a female (which biglaw always wants to keep) and you likely have a historical and current knowledge of the client(s) that is incredibly hard to duplicate and takes time to teach. We’ve also had people that need to be LA for a few weeks for family stuff and they just work out of LA for a few weeks. There was an associate in our DC office and his fiancee had a clerkship in Charlotte (so temporary) and he would spend like a week a month here.
anon
At my firm, several trailing spouses have worked from other firm offices during their spouse’s medical fellowships. One required more travel back to the home office (much of which was on her own dime, which was offset by the fact that the fellowship was in a LCOL area) because of the nature of her practice. Two have returned and made partner. Can you raise that possibility with your practice leader? I wouldn’t frame it in terms of should I stay or go, but should the SO focus on NYC-based opportunities, or can I work from another location for a year?
Anon
I was going to suggest this. I also know people who have negotiated working remotely for a year or more when they were temporarily moving for a spouse’s job. It might change the nature of your responsibilities (more writing and research, less deposition and court time) but if you are willing to travel back on your own dime for those in person responsibilities you may be surprised at the flexibility afforded you.
Anon
It’s a good thing to ask, but be prepared for them to say no. My Big Law firm would not let me transfer from the Bay Area to NYC (offices in both locations) so I could be with my husband during a 2 year postdoc. My sense is that it’s harder as you get more senior and interact directly with clients more, but I could be wrong about that.
Anon
I disagree that it’s good to ask. If they say no you run the risk of being labeled as the “secondary” career person which based on observation will make them less likely to consider you for partner.
Anon
Fair enough. I don’t have regrets about asking even though they said no, but I also had no intention of ever being a partner in Big Law. I can see how it would hurt OP.
Anon
I’m not sure about Texas, but I believe you can’t waive into the CA bar, so unless you are already admitted there it might be hard to get a job there for 1 year.
My former coworker’s husband got a fellowship in another state where they did not intend to stay. They had 2 small children and her job was very demanding, so she quit and went with him and stayed home with the kids for a year (and did some volunteering while the kids were in school), in part because she did not have bar admission there and knew it would be temporary. They ended up moving to a different LCOL city after and she had no problem getting another job and explaining the gap year because of the fellowship. She doesn’t love the new job, but that’s a function of the much narrower job market in her current city.
Anon
True about the bar.
Quail
+1 – the bar was my first thought. Can’t waive in to California, and there is no way I’d take the bar for living a year in a state unless there was a practical advantage to it (I did take the a bar for the one year I was living there for spouse reasons, but it’s advantageous to my firm to have me barred there so it wasn’t a waste.)
I get it. Long distance is hard (been there, done that, including while married but pre-kids). I would take this opportunity to have a really deep discussion about where you guys want to live after his fellowship, and what kind of life you want to have. I work at a firm in a big city, my husband is a government attorney, and we have two kids. There is no way we could have our life work if he was a surgeon or at a firm like mine without two full-time nannies (we have one 50 hour a week nanny as it is). We also moved cities mid-career after mutually deciding on a place we both could get jobs in our chosen areas (and we love our city, too!), which disrupted our social support systems.
I get your situation – the timing of being up for partner, or making that last push for partner, will come right when you can finally settle in a permanent spot with your husband and that may not be in NYC, and it might be easier in some ways to just cut that off now and say I’m moving to Texas for the year, byeeee. But I think a third way will appear if you think about what you are running towards and not away from.
Belle Boyd
I’m not in law, so my advice may not be as valid as some of the other wonderful women on this board, but…
I see some red flags in your question. Your SO is going for a one-year fellowship, yet long-distance is not an option. One year in the overall scheme of things career-wise should not be much of an issue. I’d be very wary of giving up your standing in your career right now to move to another city for one year and then possibly move again when his fellowship is over. You sound like you have a good thing going for yourself. I don’t know that I’d go chucking that to go running cross-country for a one year gig only to pick up and put down roots again after that year is up.
I understand the importance of your SO’s fellowship, but it sounds like you’re basing your entire future and where you go on HIM and his plans. What about yours? Are you married? Have you talked about it? I mean this gently however harsh it sounds: Making this kind of move and change to your career without a definite long-term commitment (and by that, I mean the ring is on your finger and the date is pretty well set) is a huge risk. You have a very promising and established career path. Your SO has a promising future but too many unknowns at this point. He should be making decisions that fit where YOU are, not the other way around.
Anonymous
I know, I know, but the clock is ticking for women and if OP wants to invest in her relationship while keeping up in her career, that is a choice that I get when the career future looks meh at the moment. I’d ask your firm to let you work from TX (better time difference from NYC) for the year and I bet they say yes, esp, if you go back and forth a lot. It’s better for your relationship than living primarily apart. If you wind up with no ring and no relationship future, you know you have it a good shot and you have your job to fall back on. I’d favor TX over LA b/c the flight distance is awful and working on East Coast time on the West Coast is awful (I have clients that do that — they are at work in LA when the markets open in NYC, but they at least don’t have the choking traffic then).
#WorkRemotelyInTexas
OP
Thank you for this. This is the crux that I am feeling acutely—if I want to make partner, it’s a no brainer to stay in NYC, but I am not sure that I want to. We are married and have been together over a decade and long distance for over 5 years (have been long distance the whole time we are married); we have been long distance so I can pursue my biglaw job while he is residency (ie, he hasn’t not made sacrifices for me). He is supportive and respectful of the fact that I’m in a great career position and doesn’t want to do anything to upend that for his sake; he would be long distance for another year if I wanted to, but I’m the one who doesn’t want to be long distance anymore; life is just too short.
I need to make this decision of whether or not I want to make partner at some point—whether it be now or later—and I’m feeling like I shouldn’t delay the decision and just decide.
Anonymous
He. Can. Work. In. NYC. What about this is hard for you to understand? You should make these decisions once he knows where he will be working post fellowship.
Anonymous
NYC will be awful long-term. Commuting from NJ/CT/outer borough will be awful. Talk to the BigLaw / Medical refugees fleeing to my non-NYC city with MCOL and decent commute times. I’ve seen these couples 5 years from now and they will leave eventually so why not leave sooner and actually enjoy things???
anon
Yeah I really don’t understand why this is not the obvious choice. You moving to TX or LA will torpedo any chance you have to make partner at your current firm (or any NYC biglaw firm) and may torpedo other options for you as well if you decide to move again after the year is up. Him taking a job in NYC just means that you keep all of your career options open.
The Original ...
What if you reverse your thoughts on this…
Which would be harder on you: a year without your husband but with regular meet-ups or a year without your entire social circle, whom you would likely see less often, if at all?
Which would be harder on you: making partner and then deciding to switch firms or switching firms now without having partner status?
Maybe that will be more helpful than trying to decide the best of what could be multiple decent options. Also, you didn’t mention your goals and plans for after this one year ends. Would you want to be in one of the three locations he has offers? If so, maybe that impacts whether to move now or after making partner. Would you be able to do your work right away elsewhere or would you need to pass the bar or other requirements first which may mean no work for a period of time? Do you see your social group often enough to want long-term roots where they are even after this year ends? If you plan on kids, does this change things? If not but you know your social circle is planning for them, does this change things since it may mean they aren’t so available to socialize for a while?
The more you realize your priorities in what makes for a happy life to you, the more you may narrow down options.
—
In case it helps, if it were me, I’d keep my social circle close since that’s the toughest to create somewhere new. I’d stick with becoming partner, then see if I hate the job less there or if I want to move elsewhere, knowing the partner role would open more doors for me than not having that on my resume. I would ask my husband to decide whether he wants to take the NYC option or if he wants me to ask about working remotely for that one year knowing we would be moving back to NYC after this residency ends. I would also ask him to think about what he wants to do if job won’t let me work remotely as it would be up to him to decide between NYC and planning for our visits for that year. This results in you choosing what works best for your career, him to choose what works best for his (so no risk of future resentment), and for the opportunity to figure out how both work best for your marriage over the next year.
Please do keep us posted on what you do and decide!!
anon
This is all great advice. If you truly have a shot at making partner, do not discount all of the doors that will open for you in the future even if you ultimately decide you don’t want to do it long term.
Anon
“he would be long distance for another year if I wanted to, but I’m the one who doesn’t want to be long distance anymore; life is just too short.”
My brain is twisted into a pretzel. Why are you deciding now that it’s time to chuck your career and go follow your mans to wherever he’s going to be working? Girl, you are so close! You’re almost there! Don’t throw in the towel now! I think you are burned out and need a break from work and some self-care to get your mind clear and your head on straight. The idea of chucking partnership at your firm and drifting in the wind for a year or more because you can’t do one more long-distance year when you’ve already done five is bananacrackers crazy. I get where you are at; I’ve been there. Unless you have managed to save enough so that you have f-you money, and you genuinely, truly do not care about tossing away a partnership you’ve worked really hard to achieve, my advice is: go on vacation for a week. Go to Canyon Ranch or something. Get some massages, take some walks in nature. Do some yoga and some deep breathing. And then take another look at this set of choices. Because what you are saying you “have” to do is not, in fact, a necessity.
Anon Runner
I was in a very similar position a few years ago- same level- very similar fellowship options, also lawyer, but at a boutique that has biglaw clients. I never considered trying to move for one year. If it worked out in one of those cities and my fiancé got a permanent job there, yes, I was interested in moving (mainly for weather reasons!). Long story but he ended up first committing to a LA fellowship but ended up backing out of that and taking our local one (also prestigious) due to delays in getting a visa (thanks Trump). I say this as a reminder that MDs have to pick fellowships so far out, but things can change a lot in that 1.5 year time frame before he starts. Honestly, a lot of fellowships at good places like Sloan Kettering in NYC opened up in the months prior to my DH’s start of his fellowship, so the idea that you must pick now isn’t 100% true). I think you seriously need to consider one year long distance, see how he likes living there, and if he gets offered a job there, then consider what to do. 6th year is so tough- yes you can move and possibly make partner at the new place, but you will set yourself back a few years. And it likely will be harder than staying where you are because you have to earn goodwill etc.
anon
My husband and I just went through this, although I’m in finance not law and he’s got a 3 year fellowship vs. 1 year. I had similar swings between loving my job / pay / prestige and wanting to back pedal into a more “relaxed” life (which geographically aligned with my husband’s more “elite” options). We ended up deciding for him to take the slightly-less-but-still-quite prestigious opportunity in our current city and me stay in my job.
Considerations that we were thinking about that may matter to you too: from a career standpoint I was not and continue to not be willing to move someplace for 1 year so frankly I’m surprised that you’re considering that – without a good career rationale it definitely screams “second career” to see that in combination with geographic jumps on a resume. It would be very different if you were planning to stay longer term in either of those two cities. If you do not yet have kids and you have a decent maternity leave at your current job, you may not want to give it up. I did not want to delay kids for a year while I became eligible for mat leave at a new job. Additionally, I make the bulk of our income now, and you probably do too. Even though we would have been fine with less income, it’s so easy to save a ton at this point in our lives that we felt like we’d regret it down the road if I down-shifted before it was even close to a breaking point. Fellowship is really tough in many regards, so I was not willing to move to a city where I knew no one, as I anticipated that my husband would be spending most of his time at the hospital and I would need to have my own social life. This seems like it would be particularly heightened if you were only there for one year. Our relationship in the past has suffered when one of us has dramatically more free time / less career investment than the other, so we also were concerned that with a move and less stressful job for me with a busier one for him, we’d be creating that situation again. The decision in some ways felt like it was the first of many decisions to come about whether we’re going to try to be a power couple for now and make similar sacrifices as they come up to continue to be a dual career couple down the road; or if we were going to throw the chips on his career. We decided the former was better for now, especially knowing how much harder it will be in the long term for me to maintain my career amidst pressures that moms face that dads don’t – we wanted to give that every help we could to my path now. It also helped that his current program has a lot of dual career couples and a number of women in leadership positions, whereas the other programs he was considering were largely male with homemaker spouses and we were concerned that we’d feel uncomfortably rare.
The field of medicine s u c k s for significant others. good luck!
Anon at 9:34
Just saw your comment above that you’re long distance right now. I spent a lot of time framing with my husband that if he went somewhere else, he was moving away from me, not that I was choosing not to follow. (Medicine as a field tends to assume that spouses just trot along happily no matter what, and he was getting his vision clouded by that instead of realizing that the rest of the world was seeing it as him expecting us to pick up and place our life someplace random for a random length of time). Sounds like you need to be doing that messaging with your SO too. I’d be expecting in your shoes that if it’s time for long distance to be over and he’s the one with the geographic choice right now, he’d be coming to you, not also expecting you to create geographic choice in your own life to better accomodate him.
Anon
I agree with the others that a one year position is going to be hard to come by, especially if you are not a member of the relevant bar. But I want to discuss your overall question of whether you want to stay at the firm and try to make partner. The only positives about firm life I saw in your post were that it paid well and was prestigious. Although you are likely to take a pay cut for an in-house job, you still will make a huge salary and it will go so very much further if you are not in NYC. Heck, just not having to pay NYC taxes anymore would be a huge money saver.
With regards to the second point, people within biglaw get in this bubble that makes them think that biglaw is a lot more prestigious than others think it is. Attorneys who have left biglaw had their blinders removed and get that it isn’t prestigious. And non-Attorneys just don’t get biglaw, don’t know the difference between different firms and which are biglaw or prestigious, and honestly tend to think it is a lot more prestigious to work as in-house counsel for a large company. In addition, how prestigious others view your job as a horrible way to structure your life. Focus on what will make you happy, not what others will think of you.
The original Scarlett
+1 to all of this times a million
OP
Thank you. This is more what I’m interested in exploring: if I want to make partner, the clear choice is to stay. I’m just not sure that I do, and if we decide to do the NYC fellowship, then I’ll be in NYC for 2.5 more years at least.
I think I’m in a bit of a sunk cost fallacy with my biglaw job. They love me, the pay is great, why leave right? I’m just not sure if I’m happy here, and don’t really think I am. It’s also my first job since law school–there has to be another job out there that doesn’t tax me so much, right?
Anon
When I was in biglaw for my 7+ years, I didn’t think it was that bad most of the time. Occasionally, I would have a horrible period, but then it would be followed by a decent period. The thing that got me to leave was that I had zero interest in business development. Now that I’m out and in a government litigation job, I realize how substantially better my life is. It’s just night and day. Although I miss the pay since I’m now a government employee, nothing could get me to go back to biglaw.
IME, if you are wondering if you should leave, you will be happier somewhere else.
Anon
Why not commit to the NYC fellowship and you start looking for another job *in NYC*? Seeing what other options you have will help you figure out if you want to stay and make partner. If you get another job within six months, you can do it for 2 years while your husband is fellowshiping and then both stay or both move together for his permanent job. If you’ve been at your firm for 6 years, another job for 2 years, and then another job that’s totally fine and normal.
anon
You’re the one with the stable, promising career, so why isn’t your husband following YOU? That seems enormously selfish on his part.
Whether you stay in biglaw forever is a completely different question.
780
I have strong view on what OP should do because it is just a personal decision, but it is kind of ridiculous to say that someone with multiple medical fellowship offers doesn’t have a promising career. Given how quickly biglaw is to fire people in an economic downturn, his career is also probably more stable.
Anonymous
This — doctors are employed. Lawyers . . . not so much.
Junior partners are a cost center in a recession. You’ll always have the BigLaw halo but it will be hard to move as a partner b/c people see a person with no book of business with high salary requirements. Better to nose around as a helpful go-to senior associate.
anon
Of course her husband has enormous career *potential,* but RIGHT NOW, she is the one who is (I assume) the breadwinner, has established herself in her field, etc. Is it really such a hardship to take a medical fellowship in NYC, especially when you’ve been living apart for 5 years? I’d say no.
Anon
I’m sorry, what??? I think it is ridiculous to say that a biglaw associate has established herself in her field. I saw way too many biglaw midlevel and senior associates get fired during the recession and have an impossible time finding a new job to believe that is true. Biglaw associates are a dime a dozen.
Anon
+1000000000
Anonymous
I’m also a sixth year associate at a similar firm in NYC and my spouse is a doctor who just went through his last match for a final one-year fellowship. Similar to you, I’m not sure I want to make partner at my current firm for all of the reasons you cite but I’m not sure what I want to do next. If you want to talk more you can drop a burner email and I’m happy to talk – I honestly think you might work at my firm based on your description but I can’t think of who you would be, haha.
Based on the information you have provided, your spouse should do fellowship in NYC – that optimizes your career and both of your personal lives. I think it will be really difficult for your spouse to find a job in another city after doing a one-year fellowship in LA/Dallas, but I think you would be fine (you have a very easy, explainable reason for the one-year job). I guess it depends on their specialty, but if they are doing a one-year fellowship, presumably they are going to be pretty specialized so the number of open jobs in that specialty will be limited and gotten primarily through connections. Advice is slightly different if they want to do private practice but I’m assuming they want to do academics given their additional training. Ideally, you guys would figure out where you want to live (for at least a few years) and your spouse should try to do their fellowship in that city so their connections are in that city.
If that’s not possible, your spouse should stay in NYC where you can optimize your career and both of your personal lives. Moving to LA/Dallas doesn’t optimize either of your careers or your personal life since you don’t want to stay in those areas. If he takes the fellowship in LA/Dallas, be prepared to live there for quite some time – I have seen this happen over and over with doctor friends. They get trapped where their connections are in a way my lawyer friends do not.
txbiglaw
I’m not married and not even in a serious relationship so I won’t comment on that part of your comment but I wanted to comment on your thoughts about women partners. Is the NY office of your firm more intense/or is your group unusual in its lack of married w/ children female partners? I’m in a TX office of biglaw firm and we have a number of mother partners; two are even the heads of practice groups. I just don’t think it is impossible for you to stay in a firm and make partner while also having kids and having that life. It might be at your firm or at your firm in your group in the NY office but not just completely impossible.
Anon
How old are the children of the mother partners at your firm? In my DC firm, it is common to have senior associates and partners who have young, pre-school aged children, or to have adult children and have become a partner after they left for college. But their is not a single mother at my office who has school aged kids.
Anonymous
BigLaw here, formerly DC and we did have female partners with school-aged kids, but we were 1) a lifestyle firm generally and 2) those people did appellate litigation or regulatory work, which was much more paced. It wouldn’t have been easy to do that in private equity or trial litigation.
Not in DC now and there are tons of mother partners. There are tons more who drop out when their kids are in diapers and I think it is because BigLaw is generally awful. But if it isn’t awful before you are a parent (key thing!!!) it may be a lifer situation (e.g., people I know who work for mutual funds and do 40 Act work but not private fund work — that is more crazy).
I’d aim for Texas — I know so many practicing parents from our offices there. He takes the job there, you work remotely while figuring it out, and his network puts you in Dallas / Houston / San Antonio / New Orleans long term.
txbiglaw
One of the group heads has adult kids but the other group head has a 4th grader and a 7th grader. Something like that. At least one other female partner has school aged children and one has almost-school-aged (4 years old) so they’ll age in soon. I honestly thought there were more female partners until I looked at the list and realized there weren’t.
Never too many shoes...
And that is never going to change if everyone just gives up and flees in house when the going gets tough. There are plenty of male partners though….I am so over the idea that when childcare/kid scheduling gets complicated that it is almost exclusively the mother who pays the price. But it won’t change until women just stop doing it and thinking that it is ok. It is not ok.
Anonymous
Do you actually have kids? You are suggesting that moms should just suck it up and stick it out for the sake of the generation that comes later? What needs to happen is that both dads and moms opt out in equal numbers, not that moms stop opting out.
Anon
But many of us left because we never wanted to be biglaw partners. From my firm’s starting classes, their is no one left from my year, from the year above me, or from the year below me. That’s true for both male and females. Heck, many of the men wanted out earlier. There is one female left in my year who lateraled in to the firm as a 4rd year, but no one who started there. And 90% of us left of our own choice. We didn’t want that lifestyle. I think millennial look around and see that there is another way to live, and don’t want the work focused lives of our parents.
OP is entitled to leave if she wants, and doesn’t need to stick around in a job she doesn’t enjoy for the good of the gender.
Never too many shoes...
Anonymous at 11:38 – I have a child with special needs so I understand very well the pressures of work and children. I have no problem with equality in opting out, but as I see it now, it is almost exclusively women so there needs to be a major pendulum shift.
To both Anons above – it was the OP that mentioned that there are no women mentors for her… so yes, someone needs to stick it out to fill that role otherwise the cycle will never be broken.
anon
To Anon at 11:38 I have kids and I 100% agree with Never too many shoes… Part of what motivates me to stick it out when things are tough is to make it better for the women coming up behind me. Of course its not fair or right to ask women to take on this burden but the fact is that nothing will ever change if some women don’t take it on. Also, as a mother, I feel like I can/should point out that my kids also have a father who is equally capable of opting out/leaning out if we decide one of us needs to.
Alanna of Trebond
I just made partner at an NYC biglaw firm and there are tons of women partners with children of all ages (which sounds like the Ringling Brothers ad…). Some women partners have adult children, others have children in middle and high school, all the way down to newborns. And we are NOT a lifestyle firm.
anon
I have not had a chance to read all the comments. I would keep your job during his 1 year fellowship. He can be in NYC or you can choose to be long-distance.
People make career sacrifices for personal reasons all the time, but him taking a 1-year fellowship in NYC rather than another city will have much less impact on his career prospects than you changing jobs twice in one year.
After the fellowship, the best move may be to stay in NYC or for both of you to move long-term.
no way
I absolutely woudln’t move for a 1 year fellowship, especially if you’re not married. You don’t know where he will get his attending job or what will happen. My spouse had two fellowships so I know how it is.
Anonymous
Stay and become a partner. Sunk cost is not a fallacy in this case. You’ve already devoted so much too it. Put in a bit more, become a partner, then decide. Partners have more options than senior associates.
More concerning is : Why won’t your husband stay in NY for you after 5 years (whole marriage) apart. sounds like he only cares about himself and his career and you can come along if you like, or not. This is a big red flag. You should be more important than that in his world view.
Anon
I really disagree with the idea that partners have more option. It’s hard to move as a partner unless you have a book of business, which OP won’t, but easier as a senior associate. Unless you are a very senior partner aiming for a GC position, a partner is often considered too senior for entry level positions in-house and most places don’t want to hire someone for a mid-level in-house position without in-house experience. IME, becoming a partner makes it harder to pursue other legal employment options.
Of Counsel
This! (So much this!). Does not sound like it applies to OP’s firm, but mine loves to make non-equity partners out of senior associate that they do not want to quit. They get a shiny new title and quickly realize that is all they get. They then start trying to find another job, only to discover that the “partner” title (with no book of business to back it up) makes it really hard.
The title can be a trap.
The original Scarlett
If anyone is still reading this thread, I agree with this too. If in-house is your path go before you get too senior at a firm. I also always caution that in-house isn’t right for everyone and it’s not an automatic “easy life”. It’s a *different* kind of legal career, better for some, not for all. But the time to move is often before you make partner, not after.
Guardianship/estate planning with international family
Related to yesterday’s question about guardianship/estate planning, what factors are important to think about when you do not have family in the United States?
All our family is in Europe, husband and I live in the US with our son. We have just started to think about guardianship/estate issues.
For example: Is it possible to select a guardian residing in a different country? For example, we would like to have local friends as an emergency guardian, but my brother (abroad) as primary, my parents (abroad) as secondary guardians. The hypothetical scenario is that my husband and I both die in a car crash, and we’d like to have friends be able to take care of our child until our family can get here.
Regarding estate planning, we own property and have a bunch of financial assets in the US, as well as a rental property in my family’s country. We would like to protect the rights of both my son as well as our families abroad to inherit the assets.
What advise would you have? Are there special lawyers for such things? What questions do we need to ask?
The original Scarlett
Definitely talk to a trusts and estates lawyer – they can get you set up. If you post a location, I’m sure people have recommendations
Anon
You need more than your run-of-the-mill will writer – get a lawyer with special expertise in the logistical and tax planning issues associated with residents of the US and XXX European country. The types of tax planning structures you would want for your estate would likely be different, plus they should hopefully know many of the logistical things you wouldn’t know to think of unless you’ve administered an estate in those specific contexts.
Anon
Would the idea be your son then goes to live abroad? Otherwise, I’m not sure your family could legally immigrate here long term “just” to raise your son.
Guardianship/estate planning with international family
Yes, my family would likely take him to home country.
fyi
Yes. One of my colleagues is from Europe. The kids have an aunt and uncle designated as permanent guardian and a local friend as the emergency guardian. The idea is that the emergency guardian would take over for the short term but, if orphaned, the kids would ultimately move in with their aunt and uncle overseas. I don’t know the details but if you know someone else in your situation they may be able to recommend an attorney. (Where are you based? If Chicago-area I can ask my buddy what attorney they used.)
Guardianship/estate planning with international family
Yeah I am asking around here locally already as we’re in a Midwest college town where many internationals live (it’s small enough to potentially out me if I say exact location – not close enough to Chicago). I’m optimistic we’ll find a lawyer here.
What I’m interested in from this forum here are questions to ask, things to consider etc. so that we can be prepared for a discussion with a lawyer.
Anon
Don’t know what town you’re in, but as a recovering attorney, I don’t really trust lawyers in my small Midwest college town – despite the international population, the attorneys here tend to be white men whose families have practiced law in this state for generations and are…mediocre at best. Business comes to them because it went to their father or grandfather, and they don’t have to be even remotely competent. We went to the nearest big city, and were glad we did – and our estate planning was less complicated than yours because we didn’t have any international issues.
Guardianship/estate planning with international family
Interesting, thanks for this perspective. Maybe we should look at the next big cities then.
Anon
In addition to what Anon at 10:21 said, which I agree with, the big thing I would consider is whether it makes sense for the guardianship decision to change over time as your child get older. If something happened when your child was 15, would it still make sense for him to move to a different country? What about when he is 17 and a senior in high school who has been admitted to his dream college? Does there become a point when the US is his home and it would be too much of a shock to his system that in addition to losing his parents he would have to leave the only country he has ever lived in? Maybe your answer is no, but I know that I would want my young kids to move across the country to my hometown to be with family if something happened to me soon but I would want them to stay in our current city if something happened to me when they are half way through high school so I think its worth considering.
In theory, you can and should amend your will over time to account for these things. But many people don’t.
Guardianship/estate planning with international family
These are good questions, thanks!
I’m aware that we may have to revisit the will/arrangements regularly through different life stages.
FFS
My parents’ will has me going to live with my aunt. I’m 38, married, with three children. Obviously I know it’s for minors, but it makes me laugh. I’ve been pushing them to update it, especially as we’ve had some family changes.
Anonymous
This is what we have. My parents (elderly) as temporary guardians and BIL abroad as permanent guardians. We’ve asked BIL to bring the kids back each year to visit my parents and provide funds to do so.
Anon
We are not in exactly the same situation, because my family is here while my husband’s family is in Europe. However, my family is literally just my parents, who are too old to be good candidates for guardianship, while my husband’s family includes multiple siblings in his generation, who have children close in age to our kids.
Ultimately, we decided to name an unrelated local guardian, but we picked someone with ties to my husband’s home country who would be able and willing to facilitate a relationship with his family. It helps that they are (like us) academics whose work deals with my husband’s country of origin, so they already spend most of the summer in that country, and could just take the kids along.
Our decision was partly due to the personalities involved. My husband’s siblings are good and caring parents, but I have watched them deal with the emotional fallout of familial death and other serious events, and have not thought that they’ve done it particularly well. I don’t trust them to parent my kids through what would presumably be a major trauma–I want someone who will get the kids in therapy, find them grief support groups, etc., which is not their mode of operation at all. It was partly also because while my kids are close to both sets of grandparents, they see my parents much more often and would initially look primarily to them for emotional comfort if we were not around. My parents don’t live in our city, but we have all agreed that they would move to our city at least temporarily if we died or were incapacitated, to help with the transition. Obviously those factors don’t apply to you.
What does apply is that, now that my kids are elementary-school age, they have meaningful relationships with friends here. My thought about the aftermath of parental death is that there’s a tradeoff between preserving what stability is possible, and maximizing longterm emotional support (including ties to family). In our case, we think the best balance is to find guardians who they know and are comfortable with, and who would help them to preserve their strongest current relationships, which are with my parents and their local friends, while also making sure they get regular and meaningful contact with the rest of their extended family.
Guardianship/estate planning with international family
Thank you so much for your comment. I hadn’t really considered the friends group being a major concern (my son is 4).
We travel to our home country twice a year for 1-2 weeks each, my son is fully bilingual, so I feel my son has had good exposure – but it is true that his daily routines and surroundings are “American”
As always, I’m amazed by the wisdom of the hive!
Anon
I cannot relate to foreign family whatsoever, but my very first instinct was, “wow. that’s be a giant change for kid after losing both parents”. I didn’t weigh in earlier because I didn’t think that was appropriate given my lack of informed opinions here, but I do have a toddler. I’m not saying that should necessarily change your overall approach, but I would absolutely give it some additional thought.
Anon
Without knowing your home country, it would be a huge change for your child to have to move to another country after losing both parents. 2 weeks at a time, even 4 weeks a year, is just not enough time to get used to another country or to the people that would be his new guardians. Maybe that doesn’t change your approach, but especially if it doesn’t, I personally would consider if there a way for your kid to spend more time in the home country over the summer. Otherwise, he would basically be losing his parents and his home country at the same time.
Guardianship/estate planning with international family
Well, I think he’s too young for that at just 4 years old, maybe when he’s in elementary school (>6 years old) would be ok to do that.
FWIW, I’m already spending ALL my vacation days in home country to see family. Plus, we’re talking every week for an hour on Skype, and family comes visit us here for 1-2 weeks every year. So they are not strangers, by all means.
My parents took care of kid during a business trip in Europe (2 nights away) when he was 2.5, but I am definitely not ready to send my kid who just turned 4 years old across the Atlantic for the summer, any time soon.
Guardianship/estate planning with international family
I think it’s worth thinking about the uprooting aspect in the unlikely scenario of both parents passing – thanks to everyone for bringing this up.
My guess is that even with a will and arrangements in place, it would take some time to settle all affairs here in the States, so in case my kid moves abroad to live with my family, there will be a transition time, finishing the school year etc.
As much as I would like him to keep his life and surroundings intact, I just dont know whether we have friends here who would take on the additional responsibility of being a permanent guardian for my child. Most of our peers are in similar situations, no one really has family locally even if they are from the US. In addition, we would probably have to stipulate that any local US guardian would be required to maintain a relationship with our families abroad, grant them visits, send the kid over etc etc. It all sounds even more complicated…
Calendars for sharing
For years, I have been using Outlook appointments to put things on my calendar (and I invite my DH as needed if it involves him or as an FYI or for instructions (e.g., “I am working late; you need to pick up the kids”).
Kids will have phones soon and I’d like to start including them where things concern them (e.g., winter break, teacher work day, scout camp, vacation, etc.). I don’t know that the kids will have e-mail right away (or will check that to accept appointments), so Outlook may not be the best thing.
For me, I need something that I can see on my phone and it is helpful that I can pull it up on the computer when I need to see more things or program in repeating items, etc. Is there something good / better for this that would work well for 4 people?
Anonymous
Famcal–it syncs with outlook and you can control who sees what. Free and paid versions–you can figure out which version works better for your situation.
Anon
Cozi?
Cb
I think if you set them up with Gmail accounts and add the mail and calendar app to their phones, you could send the invite. If my husband invites me to something, even if I haven’t accepted it, it still shows up on my calendar app (just as pending)
Anon
Yes, we have a family calendar in Gmail that everyone in the family can see and access, for exactly the purpose OP is describing. It’s under my account because I set it up, but we can all see and edit. Works like a charm.
anon
A shared Google calendar is what I’d use for this.
Lots to Learn
Definitely a Google Calendar! We each have our own “calendars” which show up in different colors, but we all share so we can see each other’s commitments. That way, my daughter can see if she’s free to babysit and she can add things we need to know about. I don’t put my work commitments on there, but I do put work trips on there so the rest of the family knows I won’t be home one day. I also love that we can put travel information (e.g. flight numbers and confirmation numbers) in our calendar entries and everyone can see them if they need to. Works really, really well for our family. I will note that when one daughter went to college and started using her calendar heavily for club meetings, project due dates and interviews, we “hid” her calendar so it wouldn’t clutter up our view, but it’s nice to have it on there.
Anon
That sounds like bringing office practices into your household in a weird way. Do parents usually share Outlook calendars with their kids? How old are they? I’d stick to a wall calendar for big stuff involving the family.
anonshmanon
I think a lot of families share electronic calendars.
Anon
With kids though? I personally don’t want my kids using phones more than the bare minimum and I don’t think Outlook calendars and appointments would work with that. OP, you could give it a try and see if you like it.
Anon
You’re unnecessarily doubling the amount of work if you keep your calendar electronically and then recreate it on paper for the sake of your kids. It’s perfectly reasonable to not want to do that.
Anonymous
OP here — I already use outlook and like that I can see it whereever I am. I used to be paper, but that when I was single and didn’t have kids and I need spouse to know all of that stuff b/c we both travel for work and need to see the next day / week / month in advance as we make plans so we aren’t both gone at the same time,etc. I’m doing camp schedules now — yikes! It’s just really complex. Keeping a second calendar on the wall is just another task I don’t need. And two calendars can get out of sync, so I am trying to keep things simple.
Kids are late elemenary school and middle school and will be getting phones now that we are moving to a world of 4 people having 4 different schedules / locations / travel routes to work with.
Eh
This is not weird at all and is done by many, even most, parents with kids old enough to have phones. A wall calendar is not practical at all for a working-parent household; I’m at work when I call the dentist to make Junior’s appointment, and I can’t wait until I get home to write it on the wall calendar. We use google instead of outlook, and I agree with the method Cb described above– google will send it to their calendar even if they don’t check the gmail account.
Anon
Hahaha okay technophobe. I manage all my appointments on my phone as does my husband. It is way faster for me to enter family-related events and reminders ON MY PHONE as I do for literally everything else in my life. My teenage kid has a phone; my husband has a phone. When they need to do something or know something, we look at our phones. It seems ridiculous for you to suggest that the moms here (because that’s what we’re talking about, don’t get it twisted) invest time and emotional labor in creating an analogue paper calendar that A. no one will look at, most likely and B. will probably only be managed by Mom. Are you a parent or a spouse to anyone? Because this post and the suggestion included within seems woefully out of touch with both modern life and the way families work. It gets very tiresome to read suggestions on how families should manage their affairs from people who don’t have families, but feel qualified to comment because 30+ years ago they themselves were a child and hey, paper calendars worked great in the 80s!
Anon
Omg chill.
Anonymous
Useless comment. Try harder next time.
Anon
As opposed to your deep, insightful contribution? Get over it.
Anon
Amen to this.
Anon
My husband insists on keeping a google calendar that no one looks at ever except for him. He will say “but it was on the google calendar!” when we are surprised about something, but none of us use google for the calendar. We use iCal. He is just so used to gCal he can’t give it up.
Anon
Uh, yeah, it’s 2020.
Anonymous
Do you have an iphone? We use the “Family Calendar” function on our phones for things like that. “XYZ is coming into town” “Dinner at X” “ABC’s Baby Shower” When one of us adds it, it automatically goes to the other family members’ calendars. I forget exactly how we set this up, but it also lets us share certain apps and some other things, but we each have our own separate icloud/apple/itunes accounts (whatever it is called now) associated with our personal email addresses.
You can pull up the calendar on icloud.com
Anonymous
We do this too. It was funny when my daughter first started staying home alone after school she would make herself a snack in the oven and for some reason instead of setting a timer on the oven she added a calendar event so we all got calendar updates that said “take chicken nuggets out of oven” or random things like that haha!
Anonymous
I love this!
Anon
That’s hilarious!
anon
hilarious!!!
Family cal
My family has a separate shared gmail account we started a 9 or 10 years ago. At the time my dad was commuting to a from nyc to london and we started it as a great way for my mom and me and my sisters to know which country he would be in on a given day and all his flight details. We use initials in the start of the event name so we know who it applies to. We have the calendar synced on all our phones (with the mail option shut off). Anyone can add stuff or look anytime. But it’s been a lifesaver for making plans especially far out since we know all the existing major obligations, travel, wedding, big concert tickets and such are on their.
Anon
Is it crazy for me not to want my mother in law at my house before work in the morning? My husband usually does daycare drop off but lately when he has an early morning, he calls his mom and she shows up around 645 am. I told him that I’m really not comfortable with it and he just freaked out. He went on a rant about how I don’t want his mom to see our kid. This isn’t true, I love her and like having her over, just not first thing in the morning. I’m often half dressed or in a robe when she arrives, and I’m often late because she asks half a million questions and can’t find things my son needs for school. I told him I’d rather just be late and drop him off myself (as long as I don’t have trials or hearings) but he insisted I just hate his mom. Am I in the wrong here?
Anonymous
I mean this is clearly a whole big thing but start with baby steps. Don’t answer her questions. Don’t find stuff. Get up, get dressed, and leave. Go enjoy a Starbucks breakfast. If he wants to delegate his responsibilities to her, make it his job to supervise.
Anonymous
No. But. Is this the sort of thing that you all can get better at (she masters the things she asks Qs about now, knows where things are, maybe kid can help arrange things the night before)? It is sort of like getting an au pair or new nanny — there is some initial discomfort with the person in what was previously Your Space, but after a while you don’t notice it.
Or put it this way — another local adult competent to do this task will be a long term plus in your life. Do you never travel / get sick / have minor surgery / have early medical appointments?
Husband’s reaction is overblown.
Anon
It seems like there’s an option in between her not being allowed at your house in the mornings and her showing up announced at 6:45. When he has an early morning (presumably he knows this in advance?) can he tell you and can you arrange for MIL to come to your house at some agreed upon time, by which you will be ready? Say you have to leave at 7:45 – maybe she comes at 7:30 so you’re just about ready to walk out the door when she gets there? And then she can finish getting the kids ready and to school?
Anonymous
We talked about pushing it back to 7:00 or so, but this morning at 645…there she was. It feels so invasive.
Anon
This is a difference of 15 minutes. You seem unreasonable IMO
Lily
It sounds like you have a much bigger issue with your marriage than just whether you’re in the right or wrong on this particular argument. The fact that your husband “freaked out” at you when you made (what I think is) a perfectly reasonable request is worrisome.
Vicky Austin
+1. Your husband overreacted, full stop. Ask him how he’d feel if your mom showed up and he was in his bathrobe.
Anon
I think a lot of people would be completely fine with their MIL seeing them in a bathrobe. I would, and I’m not someone who thinks of myself as close to my in-laws. I know that’s not the core issue here, but the “ask him how he’d feel if your mom showed up and he was in his bathrobe” seems like a weird take. He’d probably be fine with it!
Anonymous
Yeah that’s the thing, I really feel like there’s something wrong with me but I *hate* that she was poking around before I was dressed. My house is often messier than I’d like her to see it, my teeth aren’t brushed and if feels like an ambush. I considered giving up my am workout so I can be dressed and pick up the house before she shows up but I’m pretty resentful that I have to do that vulnerable and even a little shamed that I’m not in great shape at 645. My husband keeps insisting she wants to help but this isn’t helpful from my view.
Delta Dawn
I completely understand why this bothers you, and I fully agree with everything you have said here. Even still, my advice would be to reframe how you look at the problem. Consider making the choice to view this as helpful. I totally get that it does not feel helpful to you! But think about choosing to view it that way, at least for a while, just to give it a chance.
What I mean by that is: choose to think of this as your MIL wanting to help, wanting to spend time with your child, and feeling close enough to you that she would not judge you for a messy house or unbrushed teeth. You can choose to believe it’s ok for your house to be messy in front of her, and you can choose to view her as someone close enough to you that your teeth might not be brushed yet. Absolutely do not give up your workout! Just lean into her willingness to help, even though it’s not how you would design it.
Of course, all this completely goes out the window if she starts commenting on any messes or making little judgments about why you aren’t ready yet. Then she’s fired, ha. But as Senior Attorney often advises, I think you can assume good intentions– at least unless MIL proves otherwise.
Anonymous
Wait — you went and worked out?
Anonymous
I work out before-at 530 in the living room.
Anon
You need to stop thinking the messy house is a reflection on you and not on your husband. It is not solely your job to have a clean house – it’s his, too!
Anon
+1. This is a husband problem, not a particular argument problem. I would be so happy if my husband solved his inability to do drop-off on his own, but he would tell me that MIL was coming at x time in the morning at least the evening before and would consider my feelings without freaking out, ranting, or accusing me of not loving my MIL. And if I said that I just wanted to do it myself, he would not complain about that.
Does he react this way whenever you bring up concerns or object to his approach?
Anonymous
Basically, yeah. For example, she was over Monday afternoon (my husband didn’t have to work and was watching our son). We share laundry duties and he’d done some that day. My undergarments were drying in the dining room the whole time she was there. I don’t care that I came home to find her unexpectedly in our house and watching our son, but I was embarrassed that my underwear was on display. I told him I was embarrassed by that and he said “I’m never doing your laundry again” then gave me the silent treatment.
Anon.
You have a husband problem, not a MIL problem.
pugsnbourbon
Your husband is being straight-up childish.
Vicky Austin
OK, my take above was flippant and simplistic. But holy crap, OP, your husband is the problem here, not your MIL and definitely not you.
Never too many shoes...
I also agree that your husband is being a bit unreasonable. That said, you also come across as slightly anxious/uptight and maybe you could try and let some of that go a bit? My mother regularly does our laundry when she comes over to babysit and my MIL will do ours when we go to visit. It is just underwear without a person in it, so maybe not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things…?
Anon
Ok, yikes. Your husband’s approach is not cool, and it’s totally related to who’s “right” about the particular issue at hand. Get thee to couple’s counseling, stat! Best case scenario, this is communication difficulties that can be reasonably easily sorted through by him learning to take a break from a discussion when he feels heated, and both of you learning to vocalize the underlying fears that are driving this kind of communication. Worst case scenario, he’s a controlling asshole who you don’t actually want to be married to long term. Either way, it’s really not about your MIL at all.
rosie
Your husband’s reaction is way out of proportion. But I do think the laundry issue is something you should get over or separate out stuff you don’t want to risk your MIL seeing/handling. My parents will sometimes fold laundry if they are over and find it in the dryer, including both my husband’s and my underwear (I do my br@s separately as handwash). It is a little weird for me and I assume for my husband as well, but I’m just grateful for the help at this point, and they don’t make any comments or anything, I could see that being problematic.
Senior Attorney
Oh, my.
None of this behavior by your husband is okay. I’m so sorry.
Angela
The silent treatment is abusive behavior. Google it. Sorry you’re dealing with this OP.
Anon
+1, there’s something more going on about MIL/kid time that has nothing to do with early mornings.
Anonymous
This sounds like a cultural issue to me is your husband from a traditional culture/an immigrant?
Anonymous
You two should talk about this when you’re both calm. Maybe flag it for him so he can tell you when he’s ready to talk – hey I’m super concerned that you think I hate your mom, let’s find time to talk this weekend. Be prepared to hear some things that you think are unfair to you; try to listen and say things like, I hear you, before you defend yourself.
Broadly, there’s obviously something else going on here. I would guess his mom is leaning on him in some way he hasn’t told you about. Maybe she wants more time with the kids, or she perceived some slight from you, who knows. But he sounds overwhelmed and like he’s been dealing with this on his own for a while. It’s time to loop you in.
Anon
Or he’s just an a$$ who lashes out if he is questioned. There is no way to know from OP’s limited description.
Anon
I’m sympathetic, but your MIL showing up a few minutes early to take care of your children, presumably for free, is not an “ambush” and your house not being pristine is just normal life. It sounds like there are bigger issues here but you need to let this go.
Anonymous
Especially if her coming let you have a workout.
Anonymous
I’m working out before all this happens. At 530. I do skip it if I know she’s coming.
Anon
It’s not LETTING her have a workout. She has her workout as part of a regular day. It’s LETTING husband take an early meeting. He’s the one who needs a sub to play his position. Geez.
Anon
This. And fwiw, I’m white and not from a culture where parents just drop in all the time without notice.
Senior Attorney
Yeah I agree the MIL’s behavior is fine but the husband sounds like an a$$hole.
Anon.
I understand that different people have different need for space and privacy when it comes to family. My husband does not like if my mom does our laundry when we’re visiting my parents, and he doesn’t even want to go on Skype when he’s not showered. I have no problem being in my jammies, even when with his parents.
This is something I have learned to respect, and occasionally I need a reminder.
But I agree, having my underwear lying around in a “public area” of the house outside my bedroom or bathroom would be weird with either parents.
I think you need to discuss healthy boundaries with family (and setting boundaries do not mean you do not love them!?), advance planning etc.
Anonymous
You should discuss whatever boundaries you want with your husband regarding his mother. However, my MIL comes over 3 mornings a week to take my kids to school. She arrives at 6:45 and they leave for school at 8:45. I am sometimes ready to go and am walking out the door along with my husband as she comes in. Sometimes I am still getting dressed, with wet hair, etc. But I am so grateful that she comes over, gets my kids ready for school, and takes them to school that I don’t care about the rest of it. Sometimes our house is a mess, sometimes there is clean laundry piled on the couch (which she will then fold–including our underwear haha). I just remember she is honestly trying to be helpful. Presume good intentions and all that.
AFT
I have a MIL who provides childcare 1x a week, so I’ve very much BTDT. What’s the alternative to having her over – can you take care of kid yourself? drop off at daycare early?
If not, I think you need to get over it and make it work. Maybe that means handing kid to her and then locking yourself in your room to get yourself ready, or maybe it means you use this time to get yourself ready and leave the house soon after she arrives or go to an exercise class you wouldn’t otherwise go to. My MIL is a lovely woman who also sometimes can.not.stop.talking so I’ve mastered the “hmm… Okay … wow” while multitasking – and exit myself when I can’t manage that. At the end of the day, she loves my kids, is doing us a favor, and having her there with minor irritations is much better than the alternatives.
AFT
Just looked over the other comments: Honestly, I’ve given up trying to pretend to those who help us with childcare – my MIL, my parents, or my (now former) nanny – that we have our $hit together. They see the mess – it’s kind of part of the package. I don’t bother trying to tidy when they come over because it’s just not the relationship we have when they’re in our house 1x or more a week every week. If your MIL is going to be providing childcare on a regular basis, can you either communicate with husband so that you can find time to tidy in advance, or just give up /adjust expectations?
I agree that your husband’s outburst was over the top, but I also had one of the biggest fights of my marriage about the hypothetical schedule of childcare by my MIL when I was pregnant (side note: we were ultimately fighting over how many days of care my MIL would provide – husband thougth FT 5x12ish hours days and I lobbied for 2x12ish hrs days… I was right and he agreed after we tried it). And he totally took it as “you hate my mom and don’t want her in our house” – not “we can’t ask a 65 year old retired lady to suddenly start working for us 60 hours a week or we’ll all hate each other.” Sounds like your DH is stressed and taking it out on you (jerk move), but maybe sit down calmly and talk through the issues. If there’s an alternative you can propose, bring it up then.
Anonymous
Yeah-i don’t mind dropping him off sometimes. There was a time,a few years ago when I did drop off and pickup, as a rule and that was too much, so he took over drop off. It IS a huge burden on him and I get that.
In his rant, he kept indicating that his mom wants to help HIM. Which, I get, but when I pointed out that I would be easier for me to do it myself, at least when I can, he switched to “you never want her to see her grandson,” which is just not true.
I know, deep down, that whole world probably knows I’m a mess. But I feel so shamed when he invites his family to see me half dressed, house messy, undergarments on display,ect. It always feels like they’re trying to deprive me of any dignity.
I just wish I could have some space for personal grooming and housekeeping without her here. I know how flawed and imperfect I really am, but I hate that he’s constantly trying to show his mom how gross I am when I’m off guard.
AFT
I’m worried about this last sentence: “I know how flawed and imperfect I really am, but I hate that he’s constantly trying to show his mom how gross I am when I’m off guard.”
It seems like a very adversarial relationship with your husband, and maybe that it’s on YOU to keep the house clean and that any untidinessin your house & life reflects on you alone. I can’t tell if that’s internal (hugs and maybe talk to someone about it?) or external from him (also hugs, and maybe couples counseling/very clear communication with him as to how he’s making me feel?) Your being in a bathrobe while getting ready at 6:45 a.m. and having a slightly untidey house does not make you gross or less-than.
busybee
Your husband overreacted but so have you. He’s not “constantly trying to show his mom how gross you are.” He considers her part of your family, and family sees each other when we’re not at our best. You seriously need to think about your need to appear perfect all the time.
Anon
I feel you here, I really do, but your husband isn’t doing this to “catch you off your guard” or to display your flaws to his mother. He really isn’t.
Anon.
“I know how flawed and imperfect I really am” – You. Are. Not. You are a human. I would explore the shame you are feeling for not being perfect.
I would work on “I just wish I could have some space for personal grooming and housekeeping without her here.” This is setting boundaries. Maybe tweaking the timing would work. Can you leave the common area before she arrives? Let husband handle her questions lock yourself in the bathroom and get ready to be your flawless self if you need that.
Anonymous
Last week they both (mil and son) followed me into the bathroom because the 3year old needed to use it. We don’t have a master bathroom so it is a little crowded. I don’t understand why mil doesn’t stay downstairs but she never does. I’m not about to suggest it because I’ll be met with “why do you hate her?”
rosie
Can you suggest she stay downstairs indirectly? Example: 3-yo needs to use bathroom, you say to 3-yo so your MIL overhears: “ok, let’s go to the bathroom, and then we’ll come back downstairs to grandma.” You aren’t telling her not to come with you, but you are observing the state of things as you’d like them to be. But also responding “why do you hate her?” to you politely enforcing appropriate boundaries is unacceptable IMO.
Anonymous
Oof. You definitely have a husband problem then. He’s denigrating you; of course you don’t want to look further “weakened” in front of his mother. Get thee to individual counseling stat to find out why this situation isn’t flashing-red-lights bad to you.
Anon
Okay, would you feel the same if this was a stranger seeing your house like this? Can you hire a person to come those same mornings or the evenings before and pick up the house? I think you husband has some issues. You also have some insecurities that I relate to but have mostly overcome (or more like threw in the towel on propriety which took a lot of work) but I remember what it was like to feel constantly judged (spoiler alert – nobody cares. I just don’t get compliments anymore which I’m totally fine with). These are something that you’ll have to work on separately. But in the meantime, to help you with the dignity part, can you address the immediate issue of projecting a certain image? I have someone help me with picking up on Tuesday evenings because the cleaning service comes on Wednesday mornings. It’s not the same reason but the outcome is the same – in the morning everything is off the floor and in its spot. On being dressed – can you shower first thing in the morning and do yoga instead of a cardio workout?
In my experience, it takes a lot of time side-by-side with someone to get over the pressure to appear perfect in all situations that women internalize as little girls. So this help from MIL may become easier as time goes by.
anon
Your feelings are not wrong.
I used to get really upset when she came over and saw the house messy and helped with vacuuming and dishes. It made me uncomfortable for her to see me in workout clothes or a bathrobe. I would raise the issue with my husband, and he’d say she doesn’t care and isn’t judging me and is just trying to help. They didn’t change, and eventually, I did. He’s right–she’s not judging me and wants to help. It took time. She’s not at my house at 6:45 am regularly, but I don’t mind when she’s there early (she sometimes spends the night if she babysits and we stay out late).
The big red flag I see here, though, is that your husband took your feelings of discomfort and turned it into you “hating” his mom and not wanting her to see your kids. WTAF? There has to be something else going on because that’s a big leap.
Anon
I think that you should just accept the help from your MIL (even at 6:45 am) and move on with your life. It makes everybody’s lives easier and smoother, including babies. Child rearing is not a 2 person sport. We’ve lost that somehow in our culture. We need help. And in getting that help, we can’t dictate every single thing about it.
anon
I think the OP’s husband sounds like an a**, but these are true words right here.
Anon
Agree with everybody who says it sounds like you’ve got some bigger issues than what time your MIL comes over.
Ann Perkins!
My husband and I are hitting a lot of big milestones this year and want to take a tropical beach vacation somewhere all-inclusive and relaxing. We’re more wanderers than adventurers on vacation, so we don’t need zip-lining or skydiving. The problem is there are so. many. options. and I’m completely overwhelmed. Budget is $4,000 or preferably under for 2 people, we’d like to do a week but would consider shortening our stay a bit to make the budget work. Where should we go?
Anonymous
Puerto Rico!
Cute
African Islands? Seychelles, Mauritius, Zanzibar? There may be more value for your $ if you do not mind the long trip to get there.
Cute
They*
Anon
Mexico is probably your best bet for AIs in that price range.
Anonymous
Agreed. Followed by Jamaica.
Anon
I would go to Hawaii if you have a week or less available. Beautiful, safe, no need for vaccines or Zika avoidance, no language barrier, etc.
Anon
Depends where she lives. From the East Coast, Hawaii is really a haul for a week. Parts of Mexico and the Caribbean are much closer. Most of the Caribbean is perfectly safe, and at a resort everyone will speak English.
Ann Perkins!
Thanks! Forgot to add that we are are sort of mid-east coast (VA), so HI is quite a long flight, and I’d LOVE to do African Islands but I’d rather do them on a longer trip.
Anon
USVI or BVI – so, so easy to get to.
anon
Costa Rica!
Anonymous
Specific recommendation: Puerto Vallarta. Weather is always perfect, you have mountains, beach, sunsets, whales, dolphins, warm ocean water, safe downtown, direct flights from lots of places. We’ve gone to a few resorts, favorite so far has been Hyatt Ziva.
lsw
Have you considered using a travel agent? We are thrilled with what ours found for us, and it was an extremely busy season in life/work for me so I appreciated the chance to outsource and totally relax. Happy to share my contact if you’re interested! We’ve booked a few trips through her now because we’ve been so thrilled.
Tempurpedic clone
I have loved the Tempurpedic mattresses I’ve stayed on in hotels and at friends’ houses. But not the cost! Is there a good clone of these from one of those mail-to-you mattress companies? Or just bite the bullet for the real thing? I need a new one as mine is 15ish years old and has become convex? concave? lately.
Also, have box springs gone away? I have an old-timey 4-poster bed that needs a box spring so that the mattress is the right height. I never see them in bedding pictures (and now it seems that quilts / duvets are too short to come down enough to cover the box spring or even the flat sheet overhang). Some days it is hard to be an orderly Virgo sort of person.
Z
I bought a like $300 Wayfair brand memory foam mattress almost 3 years ago. Its very comfy and is holding up well, especially for the price.
Saguaro
I have a Tempurpedic and absolutely love it! I would buy another one in a heartbeat, despite the price. I have tried just about every type of mattress and price range in my 26 years of marriage, and the Tempurpedic is the best one. It is still a personal preference, but the support it offers (support feels like laying on sand, but softer) is a home run for me and the hubs.
lsw
My husband and I are obsessed with our Tempurpedic after recovering from the sticker shock. And our particular mattress store offered a bunch of perks, including 0% financing for five years which made it pretty simple. It has improved our lives immeasurably, I’m not kidding. We like an extremely firm mattress and this was the best option for us. Plus it’s got a 20 year warranty.
Em
Bite the bullet and buy the real thing. We bought one almost 3 years ago and have never once regretted it. My husband and I have commented several times in that 3 year period how happy we are that we bought that mattress. I am normally very frugal and we were seriously considering a mattress that was $1500 cheaper when we were shopping for it and I am SO SO SO glad we spent the extra money. Think about how much time you spend in bed and how much an uncomfortable mattress impacts your sleep and (at least for us) back issues. My parents are really spendy but for some reason decided to buy a highly-rated mail-to-you-mattress last year and my mom comments to me at least once a month how much she hates it.
Mattress
I just bought a new mattress three months ago and ended up with a non-tempurpedic hybrid. It’s my understanding from shopping that tempurpedic uses a proprietary foam that’s different from everyone else’s. Laying on different mattresses seemed to support this statement (from three different sales people at different stores), so if that’s what you k ow you like – I’d bite the bullet and pay for it!
Anon
There are a lot of dups out there now, mostly they seem to vary based on the proportion of memory foam to latex foam–latex foam is firmer, especially when it’s cold.
To answer your other questions, no, I don’t believe they are meant to go on a box spring. One of my relatives uses a box springs anyway–it’s part of the mechanism on his motorized bed. Another relative built a plywood platform inside her bedframe pretty easily (the hardest part was transporting the plywood). Both of them have branded Tempurpedic. Personally, I needed a new bedframe anyway, so I have a slatted platform bed when I got a latex foam mattress.
Anon
To piggyback, which Tempurpedic do you ladies have that you love? We are retiring our old one and the options have changed.
anon
Just wanted to voice the opposite view. I totally regret our Tempurpedic mattress. We live in the deep south where it is hot all the time, and the Tempurpedic makes me extremely hot at night because the foam gets soft when it’s hotter and causes you to sink down more into it.
Anon
Looking for problem-solving. My dog is fairly old but otherwise healthy and has recently started to wake my partner and me up throughout the night to go to the bathroom (full business, a true need). He’s able to hold it all day while we are at work but for the past few months has needed to use the bathroom anywhere from 2-3 times in the span of an 8-hour night. We live a few floors up in an apartment and it’s winter so needless to say it’s real disruptive. We’ve tried taking him for long walks before bed, tuckering him out at doggy day care during the day, and moving his meal time to early evening instead of before bed. I’d feel bad to cut off his food and water supply because he usually grazes throughout the night and only now has it become a problem. We also feel bad crating him over night because he’s crated while we’re at work. We could try peepads on the balcony but that won’t change us getting up and we find peepads real gross. Any ideas?
Anonymous
Have you taken him to the vet for an exam? This is a sign something could be very wrong.
Anonymous
Have you taken him to the vet to rule out an infection?
Anonymous
I’d take him to the vet and find out if there is a medical problem
Anon
Our dog did this for a month or two and then recovered. It was some kind of stomach upset I think that eventually passed. We treated it like having a baby and took turns on the wake ups. This reminded me to be grateful that he is finally sleeping through the night again.
Another option would be to stop crating him when you are at work so that you can crate him overnight but that’s not going to stop his need to go.
mascot
Seems like the first option is to fed him at set times and not let him free feed. We’ve got two old dogs and they eat at 7am and then at 6pm. We keep water down at all times, but if they don’t eat their meals after a few minute, we pick them up. As a result, they are pretty predictable in when they have to go to the bathroom.
If he’s just having to pee a lot, might be worth a vet visit to rule out infection or something.
pugsnbourbon
Instead of a pee pad on the balcony, could you do one of those turf squares you can get delivered? Still kinda gross, but a bit better than a pee pad. I’ll follow up with a link.
pugsnbourbon
The grass pad company is called Fresh Patch: https://www.freshpatch.com/
Anonymous
We had this with a dog and it was perianal fistulas. It made it painful for her to go so she’d just have like one ‘nugget’ at a time. The vet had us give her stool softeners which helped. So agree with vet visit.
Govt Mule
Older dogs can develop a form of sundowners where the dogs become overly anxious and confused at night. You dog may be seeking attention from you at night in a manner that is similar to indicating he needs to go out – but really he is just anxious. I know you mentioned he is producing with every trip – but I have a dog that will produce on every walk, regardless of how often we walk him!
If your vet determines that your pup has sundowners, he or she can prescribe anti-anxiety meds to help your pup settle down in the night.
We had a dog with sundowners. Our vet put him on trazadone. It didn’t knock him out, but it made him calm enough that he could make it through the night. I believe getting him treated for this improved his quality of life (and ours).
Dyson vacuum
I’m thinking of pulling the trigger on a Dyson cordless vacuum. For those who have one, which model do you have and is it as life-changing as it seems?
kk
I think cordless vacuums in general are life changing. We had a shark before we had the dyson, and I’ve loved both- the ease of use means I’m easily inclined to grab the vacuum for a quick pass through the kitchen without making it a whole thing.
I do think the dyson (we have the v10) has a longer battery and more suction power than the shark did. The shark was fine in 500 sq feet, but now in a house, I appreciate the dyson. I also love how the weight of the dyson is concentrated close to your hand- not at the other end- it is easier to maneuver around tight corners.
Dyson fan
I have the v7 absolute and it has been life changing. I liked it so much I bought a second one on sale for the second floor of my home. Both my parents and in-laws used it when they were over and liked it so much that they purchased their own. It is money well spent.
Anonymous
I just sprung for a V11 this weekend – we previously had a V6 that I got on a steal from a friend who was relocating and the cordless life was huge (had a shark corded vacuum before), but we had one large, hairy dog and now we have two and the V11 is a gamechanger. I was between the V10 and V11, if you get a V10 I’d recommend going with the animal or absolute so you get the torque power head. We have an ~800 square foot apartment for reference and I still think it’s worth the larger vacuum. If you have a smaller one and/or no pets and just need standard vacuuming/dust bunnies, the V6 or V8 would probably be totally fine for your needs.
I can’t fangirl enough over mine, seriously.
FFS
We’ve had the Dyson v6 about a year and a half. It lives in our kitchen. The suction power is great – it has a “max” setting that kills the battery in about 6 minutes (I think regular is maybe 15?) but that’s all we need for the kitchen. I’ve used it in other rooms in our house and it works well, but I don’t think we can get the whole house before the battery dies so I usually haul out the Shark. As I type this, I’m realizing I should probably just do a couple rooms at a time because I do prefer the Dyson.
Anonymous
We have an old v6 and love it. I did get both the brush and “fluffy” heads, as we have mostly hardwoods. The brush head works fine on the hard floor except it won’t pick up big things like cheerios, and we have a kid. I really love it. I don’t feel the need to upgrade. I don’t usually use the max setting.
Anon
Consider a roomba.
First time home buyer
Wise ladies, please help me brainstorm a checklist of what I should be looking for in a house. I’ve never bought a home before, and I’ve rarely lived in one place for more than a year. My husband and I are looking to settle down and have children soon, and I am overwhelmed by the process. It seems like every time I look through pictures of homes, I notice something new that bugs me that I haven’t even thought about before. For example, I really liked the layout of one home we recently viewed, but I after looking at pictures over the course of a few days I realized all of the rooms have recessed lighting that I do not like but I hadn’t even noticed it the first few times. I also have no concept of what is reasonable to consider for remodeling. Does anyone have a handy checklist of things to consider when buying a house? How did you know your house was ‘the one’?
Anon
Focus on the big stuff – what can you afford? How’s the neighborhood? How long do you plan to stay? Is the house in dire need of repairs? How’s the environmental setting/air quality in the area? Is the house designed efficiently to reduce your heating and cooling needs? Things like recessed lighting can be changed easily, but the big stuff can’t.
First time home buyer
Good suggestions, thanks! For clarity, most of the big stuff is known – we’re looking at houses that are less than 2x our annual income, in the neighborhood where we currently rent and love, we’ll probably stay for good barring unforeseen circumstances (unlikely), none of the houses are in dire need of repairs as far as I can tell beyond cosmetics (e.g. outdated bathroom tile and mirrors). I don’t know about air quality or design to reduce heating and cooling needs, I’ll look into that. Thanks again!
Anon
+1000000
You think of it as biysng a house, but in reality you are buying a lifestyle. Even if it is only for a few years. So focus on that.
To us, our desired lifestyle meant a smaller older home without any big structural issues, in a neighbourhood with easy public transit options, good schools and wit large gardens, where trees are taller than houses.
To someone else it migt be a large house with a car commute and a handkerchief garden but enough space to entertain and sleep over their multitudes of friends or relatives.
The cost you will pay (for the house, repairs, new commute compared to old one, etc) and conversely, what is left over from that cost, are also part of the lifestyle.
Anon
Not only can things like recessed lighting be changed, they’re also not important and you probably won’t be actively annoyed by it once you live in the house. One can deal with light fixtures they don’t like a lot more than one can deal with a bad neighborhood.
Anon
+1
Anonymous
I’d highly recommend beginning to go to open houses that are generally in your price point/target markets and get a feel for what’s out there. We did that a ful lyear before we pulled the trigger to buy and it helped us calibrate “wants” to “what’s available to us”, and then we could be selective from there. For example, I would have told you I absolutely needed a two car garage. HA. Not possible at our price point in our market. I wouldn’t have known that without actually getting out into the market and spending 1-2 hours every couple weekends at open houses.
Truth be told, house #1 was offer #10 for us. It was hardly ‘the one’. In fact, now that we’re in #2, I look back on #1 and still don’t love it. But it served a purpose, it was functional and it was in such a great market (by design) that we made over $100,000 on appreciation in four years. I think the idea of a “dream home” is flawed and letting go of that will really help you in this, often frustrating, process.
Anon
I’d highly recommend beginning to go to open houses that are generally in your price point/target markets and get a feel for what’s out there. We did that a ful lyear before we pulled the trigger to buy and it helped us calibrate “wants” to “what’s available to us”, and then we could be selective from there. For example, I would have told you I absolutely needed a two car garage. HA. Not possible at our price point in our market. I wouldn’t have known that without actually getting out into the market and spending 1-2 hours every couple weekends at open houses.
Truth be told, house #1 was offer #10 for us. It was hardly ‘the one’. In fact, now that we’re in #2, I look back on #1 and still don’t love it. But it served a purpose, it was functional and it was in such a great market (by design) that we made over $100,000 on appreciation in four years. I think the idea of a “dream home” is flawed and letting go of that will really help you in this, often frustrating, process.
Anonymous
I agree with this. We had a narrow area we wanted to buy in (based on schools for our kids) and had a couple of things that for us, we really wanted (including all bedrooms on the same floor or only the master downstairs. It would not have worked for us to have one kid room downstairs and everyone else upstairs. I know this set up is good for an office, but would not work for us and our kids.). As we started looking around in our price point we realized that we would have to give up other things to get what was really important to us. The house we bought doesn’t have enough storage and I don’t like the carpet upstairs, but has a layout that works for our family, in a location we wanted. We are slowly adding storage pieces and will change the flooring upstairs eventually.
Anon
Stay away from HGTV and its ilk while you house-hunt.
Sounds like you have a pretty good idea of price/neighborhood and what’s available. Be sure to have a bit of a cash cushion.
Don’t sweat the little stuff (paint, decor being on trend, that sort of thing). Once you get your belongings in the new house, it’ll start to feel like home quickly.
Squid
I’ve moved nine times in ten years, but have only purchased two houses. One was a down-to-the-studs remodel, the other (purchased four months ago) needed zero work – we didn’t even paint. Both times we knew in advance what we wanted, so I think remodel and budget would be my first criteria. I think since you’ve moved so often, it might be a good idea to rent a house for the short-term in an area your interested in to see if you like it (if that’s possible). Home buying advice: 1) Try really hard to stick to your budget. Ask a realtor or someone who knows the market whether your expectations are reasonable. 2) If you’re thinking about kids, consider school district very carefully. 3) Decide ahead of time if you want to do a remodel of an older home (more affordable) or want to live in a house that doesn’t need work (more expensive, but can be well worth it). Of the things you mentioned, I’d be more concerned about layout (expensive, almost impossible to reconfigure) than recessed lighting (relatively cheap and easy to fix/change). Hope this helps.
anonn
My biggest fear was neighbors I’d hate? haha. So I was always looking and listening outside when I looked at houses. One house had several junky cars in the back, another had barking dogs all the time. I also wanted a 2 car garage, en suite master bath and a dedicated main floor guest bath (not attached to a bedroom). I wish we had also gotten a main floor laundry, and a mud room/somewhere to put coats, and more closets in general. We were looking at older homes so this was some what of a unicorn in our price range. Also on that note, if the house is over 50 years old, get a sewer inspection, its not standard but saved us a lot of $$$
busybee
The neighbor thing is huge. Our neighbors chain smoke all.day.long and we can’t use our backyard because of it. I wish I had watched out for telltale signs of smoking when we looked at our house.
Anon
Consider the age of the home carefully and what sorts of “corrective” or structural work you might be on the hook for. Remodeling for aesthetics can be done over time but things like adding better quality insulation, replacing roofs and old appliances, and the potential for things like asbestos (if you want to do any remodeling – if you leave it alone it’s perfectly safe but it was put in everything from floor tile to insulation, to wall texture). Basically, build the sort of near future work into your budget as you look for homes.
Anon
It’s looking like I’ll have to preemptively take PTO off (accrue it back) for a family emergency. I am also in the middle of job searching because I am extremely (like, toxically so…I can’t leave fast enough) unhappy in my current role and due to certain things that have been communicated to me and other people in my team about advancing anywhere in the company. Am I still able to give a standard two weeks notice if I have days I haven’t “earned” back? NY if it helps. And I’m an at will employee. TYIA!
Anonymous
You’ll probably have to pay them back for the used but unearned time but they can’t force you to stay longer to make up the time.
Anon
It varies by state and I don’t have any relevant NY experience. But I know at my non-NY employer, you would still give the standard 2 weeks notice and they would just deduct the hours of any non-accrued PTO from your final paycheck.
Advanced PTO is basically a loan. The company can’t make you stay longer, but they can make you pay back that PTO loan on your way out the door.
Anon
They can’t make you stay longer (that would be indentured servitude), but they can deduct the money from your last paycheck, and they probably will.
Worry About Yourself
I’m in MA, and I don’t know if NY is different, but in every job I’ve had with accrued PTO, it’s communicated that we’d need to pay the company back if we have negative PTO. So you can leave, but you’d likely owe the company money.
Senior Attorney
Also it wouldn’t hurt to ask them to forgive it the loan on your way out the door.
Anonymous
Are you able to take unpaid days off? My organization would not allow use of pto before accrued but would allow unpaid time for an emergency.
lsw
You’ve probably already considered this, but would your family emergency fall under intermittent FMLA?
Piper Dreamer
Okay, this is going to sound stupid but here it goes. I am a midlevel biglaw associate, While working with a newly-minted partner on a deal, he keeps speaking about our client in a demeaning tone with lots of curse words. For instance, we sent the client a draft and the client sent back his comments. The partner then gave me his thoughts on those comments, which often include remarks like “FFS”, “moron”, “read the f***king doc”, “idiot” etc. Also, the client caught a mistake I made (which I fully recognize to be my fault and should not have happened) and the partner’s note on this is “FFS”. I understand most of his notes are directed at the client. However, they made me very uncomfortable. I guess… that is normal for biglaw and I should just suck it up, right?
anon
No, not normal. Avoid working with this person in the future.
Anonymous
+1. This guy is a PR disaster waiting to happen. What happens if one of his comments accidentally gets sent to the client? I would steer clear.
Junior Associate
+1. Someday this will be directed at you or your junior, or accidentally get out to the client. Don’t get caught up in this.
Anonymous
I’m not in law but I am client-facing and this is absolutely toxic. Never ever fall into the trap of talking about your clients as idiots in private, that will spill over in how you deal with them. You also might find you are characterizing them this way to appease the toxic partner and no good can come from that. Also as you see he will point his toxicity to you and that’s a hit to your mental health.
I had a colleague with whom I bonded by rolling our eyes etc at the clients… this led to a much more stressful project than it needed to be because I saw everything through the lens of “dummy”… it made me less enthusiastic about my work and it was bad for my mental health and even performance evaluations because it made the job more stressful and I was less able to present myself as a competent professional. NOT coincidentally this colleague couldn’t do his job and left soon after.
Do not go down this road!
txbiglaw
I’ve seen FFS but not repeatedly throughout a document and never moron or idiot or anything. I would be uncomfortable and I don’t think he would have made partner in my office
Of Counsel
In my experience it is completely normal for people to SAY this (although I agree not a great idea) but abnormal and really, really stupid to put in writing, particularly in emails.
The Original ...
Has anyone done one of those food sensitivity tests available to mail in and get answers? Wondering about experiences and how they compare to the much more expensive tests in local doctors’ offices, whether they’re worth the cost and hype, or if they are just a gimmick!
Anonymous
Just a gimmick
Housecounsel
Gimmick.
AllergyMom
I have no experience with those tests. BUT, I have a child with food allergies so have 7 years of experience dealing for food allergy issues (milk, egg, peanut, tree nut, sesame, mustard, flax). Go to a doctor. There are so many types of sensitivities and allergies. And gradations on allergy (baked egg is ok, but cooked peanuts are very very bad). Don’t cut something out of your diet if you don’t have to do so. If you do, you may risk making yourself more sensitive to it so that smaller doses (e.g., accidental cross-contamination) will harm you. Or where before you really could handle gluten, but now you’ve reduced the enzyme levels in your body due to lack of exposure. This is an area where the science is advancing all the time.
Anon
It makes more sense to isolate foods and see how your body reacts than to rely on a test that many doctors believe are useless. There are definitely food sensitivities that are not allergies, or present weirdly as mild allergies (ex. eczema flare up or mild congestion from eating a banana) and it’s far more useful to learn what the food is AND what the symptoms are in real time.
editor
My daughter has requested Rothy’s for her birthday. I mainly read about them here (and so far, they don’t appeal to ME, but whatever.)
Could someone do that thing that people do here and share a code with me, please? Thank you!
Anon
https://share.rothys.com/x/LDwC8s
Enjoy!
Anonymous
Thank you!
Anonymous
Another one in case someone else is looking. Size up in the points!
https://share.rothys.com/x/MpkQqe
Anonymous
One day in our enlightened future, we won’t dismiss kids’ concerns by explaining them away. I have a close (relation, not emotionally) relative who was always kind of awful to me and one of my earliest memories is of my mom explaining away his behavior like, oh he’s just trying to help, he’s trying to make up for your lack of father (number one, that’s not appropriate and number two my lack of a father wasn’t a problem for three year old me until this relative made it a problem). And I’ve spent MY WHOLE LIFE TILL NOW (i’m in my 40s) thinking that the problems in our relationship is because I was too little, too dumb, too weird, too all of that. This relative is very professionally successful and I’ve never really questioned until today that any lack of closeness we might have is my fault. It’s not my fault! He’s kind of an asshole actually!!! And I’m looking back at how it was always explained away and that I was too sensitive or damaged or screwed up to be rational about the situation BUT IT WAS NOT JUST ME.
He had asked me to weigh in professionally (I’m a statistician) on some research he had done, cool I’d love to help and not be the family fuckup, so I followed up with him, he was borderline accusatory? And claimed not to remember asking me for help??? And I was like… I recognize these feelings! This is the feeling of small me feeling like an idiot and like I’m doing something wrong, but I haven’t done anything wrong! WHEW Y’ALL … I need to rethink my image of myself as a complete disaster because clearly there’s not one sane person (him) and one insane person (me) in this picture… we’re both flawed at minimum.
The funny thing is my husband has mentioned how much of a dick this relative is sometimes AND I DEFENDED HIM. I’m done with that! My relative… can be kind of a dick… and I’m not the pure fuckup I’ve always thought I was!
In summary, don’t dismiss your kids’ feelings, maybe there’s a reason they feel like that!
Cb
Yes, totally this. My aunts and uncles on my mom’s side were generally disagreeable and it was so validating as a teen to hear my paternal grandmother say something about how awful they were.
amberwitch
Someone here recommended the book How to listen so kid will talk and talk so kids will listen (or the other way around). I just read the first chapter, and what you say here so resonates with me, and echoes their message.
Anonymous
Not sure if I recommended it, but I honestly use the skills from that book with EVERYONE – everyone wants to feel heard. It’s great for negotiating at work, with in-laws, kids, etc.
Anonymous
The book was actually required reading for a management training course I attended. As in a course for managing adults.
Anon
Hugs… I don’t think parents think about the consequences of what they say in the heat of the moment. I was 40 before I realized that my parents probably didn’t mean it when they’d threaten to send me to the local home for troubled youth as a kid. I was TERRIFIED at the thought of being sent away for some random infraction and they were always hanging it over me.
Anon
My husband doesn’t have much of a relationship with his mom because her sister and the sister’s husband (his aunt and uncle) were awful to him as a child – said bullying, cruel things and openly gave their own children toys, gifts, money, opportunities, etc. in front of him and rubbed it in his face that his mom was too poor to provide the same things to him (and that his dad had abandoned him, was a terrible person, etc. His dad left the family and didn’t offer much support but still saw my husband and they still had a relationship). My MIL refused to do anything about it when he was a child and when he confronted her about it as an adult, refused to acknowledge there had ever been a problem and insisted that if he was going to come see her at the holidays, he had to see them too, and “be polite and put up with whatever they say because that’s just how they are.” As a result I have seen my MIL three times in the 20+ years we’ve been married and she has seen our son twice. Parents reap what they sow.
Anon
“that’s just how they are” I HATE this so much. My dad is a jerk to me a lot and whenever I talk to my mom about it, that’s how she dismisses it. At this point I don’t have any expectation that he’ll change, but I’d at least like to have my feelings validated.
NicholeMarie
Late reply, but “parents reap what they sow” – sooo true and I wish more people understood this instead of having the attitude of “oh, i know it was tough, but faaaaaaaaamilyyyyy!” -.-
Senior Attorney
Oh, man. Yes. Reminds me of my dickish Cousin George from 50-plus years ago…
Anon
Any restaurant recommendations for Park City? Skiing Deer Valley soon and looking for good pub/bar food more than haute cuisine for dinner after. TIA!
kk
The High West Distillery restaurant has delicious food- we liked the Mac & Cheese. My favorite restaurant in the area is Cortona- over near the highway in Kimball junction. Despite the strip mall location, it’s really great italian food. You’ll need a reservation – they fill up fast.
Hazel
I had some of the best panini of my life at Deer Valley Grocery/Cafe about 5 years ago. Being really hungry might’ve helped though!
Jane
Deer Valley Cafe is casual and great. We especially love the granola and cookies. The bagels at Wasatch Bagel are great. We also like Twisted Fern in the same shopping center.
NOLA
Hey hive – low stakes question here My birthday is in October and I found out this past week that a band I really like is playing here on the night of my birthday. I checked this morning and tickets are selling out although there are still a few decent ones for around $75 plus fees, It’s a Saturday night so no work issues. I haven’t discussed this at all with the guy. He probably wouldn’t like this band but might be willing to go for me. And who knows where the two of us will be by October – we’ve only been dating for a month and a half. So, the question is, should I go ahead and buy tickets to the concert and just figure I’ll go with a girlfriend if I am not in a relationship then, or if he doesn’t want to go? Or just skip it? I’m dithering…
Anonymous
Get the tickets! Even if you aren’t still with him you will be able to find someone to go with you by then.
Anonymous
Buy the tickets. Figure out your +1 closer to the date.
Hazel
Get the tickets!! You might be dating this guy, you might be dating someone else, you might invite a girlfriend or sell the spare ticket, but either way YOU’LL see the band you like and have a wonderful time.
Moonstone
I’d get the tickets and treat a girlfriend to the show if it turns out you don’t want to go with the guy. It’s still a fun birthday thing to do.
DCR
I would buy two tickets to the concert, if this is how I want to spend my birthday and assuming the cost was not an issue for me financially. Either you are still dating this guy, and he will want to come with you because it’s your birthday. Or you are not dating him, and I’m sure one of your friends will want to come. Either way, sounds like a fun way to spend your birthday.
Anon
Buy the tickets. For sure. Regardless of what happens with him, go, have fun!
Winter
If it were me, I’d buy 4 tickets. Then, a month or two before the concert, put together a group of people who you’d like to spend your birthday with. No need for a big convo now with the guy about what he’d like to do for your birthday in 10 months. If October comes and the guy is part of the group: Terrific! If you and three friends see your favorite band for your birthday: Terrific! If you change your mind and want do something else on your birthday, just sell the tickets (also Terrific!).
In other words, just buy the tickets now and don’t overthink it. You will have a great time.
Anon
Go! Who your date will be that night can change but the one constant is that YOU’ll be there enjoying the band for your birthday.
Senior Attorney
Yup. Do it!
NOLA
I’m partly dithering because my girlfriends who might be interested are dwindling. I don’t even know if my friends would like this concert.
Senior Attorney
Can you sell the tickets if you end up not having a fun person to go with?
Anon
I feel like the fact that it is ON your birthday will help here though. If one of my friends wanted me to go to a concert with her on her actual birthday, I would likely do it even if it wasn’t my fave.
NOLA
I bought B-52s tickets last April and ended up taking a girlfriend and we had a blast. Ugh, still dithering.
Anon
Duh, buy the tickets. If you’re not with the guy you can sell one or take a friend.
Housecounsel
Here is a nice frivolous question. I have always gone in for blondish highlights in my brown hair about every three months. Now I am starting to get gray hairs at my temples after about 4-5 weeks. Perhaps I should be ok with this but I am not. I’d rather not take the time and money to go to the salon for touch-ups. The couple of cheap grey-root covering kits from Target I’ve tried just don’t seem to soak in, if that makes sense. Can anyone recommend a solution other than “live with it?”
NOLA
Interesting! I’ve been doing what you’re doing but I’ve had to start getting both highlights and lowlights because, as I get grayer, I was too blonde over all. It is working for me, but it sounds like you’re having more root issues, which I don’t really have. I just don’t want to be completely blonde.
anon
If there is a solution, I haven’t found it. I hate how much I spend on touch-ups but I haven’t found any sprays or temporary solutions that I love. Going gray is difficult when you’re a brunette; I seriously envy my blonde friends who can get away with more.
Anonymous
Brunette here, about 75% gray but not ready to stop coloring because I am barely in my 40s. I get my roots done every 4 weeks. I have a pixie, so I’m there for a trim every 4 weeks anyway.
hair woes
Just curious…. cost?
As I am a relatively new pixie, and upkeep costs/time suck are killing me already and I need to start dying/highlighting and don’t think I can afford it. And I honestly need to cut it every 3 weeks…. and wind up going every 6 weeks because I have no time so my hair always looks bad….
Ugh. I wish I had better hair.
Anonymous
$180 for single-process color and cut, including 20% tip, at the fanciest salon in my MCOL area. At a less fancy salon it is more like $120 for cut and color including tip, which was fine when I had long hair but they were not capable of handling a pixie.
With a pixie short enough to need a trim every 3-4 weeks I’d be wary of highlights. They can look like leopard spots on hair that short.
I, too, wish I had better hair. Sadly, a pixie is the only cut that works with my hair’s texture and the shape of my face, and I have been going gray since age 12.
KW
Dark brown hair here and I feel you. L’Oreal makes a root color spray in various shades that I use to extend my color for a week-ish longer. I just spray it in my part and it does a good job covering the new gray growth.
https://www.lorealparisusa.com/products/hair-color/products/root-touch-up/magic-root-cover-up.aspx?shade=light-to-medium-blonde
anon a mouse
I highly recommend Wella Color Charm. It’s sold at Sally and other beauty supply stores. You mix it yourself with the developer and have more control over the color. If possible, ask your hairdresser to recommend a formula to match your brown (or a Sally employee may be able to help). For best results you’ll want to do your roots first (I do 40 minutes) and then another 15 or so on your whole head so you don’t have a line where the root color ends. It will mute your highlights but not completely destroy them.
My hair grows really fast and I just cannot spend 2 hours at the salon (not to mention the $) every 5-6 weeks. I go for a full color service every 3 months and touch up myself midway through. Bonus is that I can do it late at night or otherwise to my schedule.
Anon
using a color depositing shampoo on those most visible spots (i.e. hairline and part line) might be helpful. Although You’d have to use it ever other shampoo. But it won’t mess up your colorists’ work in between appointments – box or at home color to extend a professional service will just turn every service into a color + color correction and be more expensive.
Lobbyist
When I found gray hairs I just went all over lighter and that way if I miss or am a bit late you can’t tell.
Anonymous
36, probably 70% gray in the front. The grays start showing at my temples at 2 weeks, but 4 weeks is the absolute most I can go without a touch-up. I use Clairol 5NN and a level 20 developer from Sally. I used to use 5G, but the 5NN does a far superior job with gray coverage.
Housecounsel
Thank you. I am going to go to Sally and try the Wella and the Clairol and hope my stylist doesn’t fire me.
Anon
Reposting from yesterday’s afternoon thread:
Planning a move with many unknowns. How would you tackle this?
We will need to move closer to DH’s work (my work is not a factor here). He expects to transition to full time from contractor in two months which is when we will have the green light to move. We want to keep our current home and rent it out. The market is pretty good, and we expect about two months from advertisement to renter moving in (based on neighbor’s experience with identical stats). We also need to find a preschool for our child and a rental for us to move into. I have started looking at some preschools but the two I liked were a little far from DH’s work (30 min) to immediately commit. We can look for housing in between, and I’ve seen some decent stuff pop up there but they want renters moving in ASAP, not two months from now. Caveat that preschools/rentals are all about 1.5 hours away and it’s very difficult for me to find time to go look at something. We’re obviously trying to minimize time we’re double paying for housing. No relocation assistance. Has anyone done something similar? What was your strategy?
Senior Attorney
Honestly I feel like maybe in the scheme of things it might be worth it to double pay for two months to give yourselves some breathing room. Although of course you won’t want to commit to anything until the job situation is a sure thing.
Anonymous
Yes, or investigate options for extended stay hotels in the area you want to move to.
Anon
That’s an interesting idea that hasn’t occurred to me, thanks!
Anon
You have to pick one of those factors and commit to it and then pick the others based on that. I think trying to otherwise do it all at once is going to be incredibly overwhelming and time consuming.
Anon
Yeah, I think you’re right. I’m making myself crazy trying to make everything happen at the same time.
Anon
How sure are you that your husband is going to get a full time position? If you can’t move unless that happens, I think you just have to wait until he gets it and then start making plans. You won’t be able to optimize every factor, but that’s better than making a move you can’t afford because he ends up not getting the full time position.
Anon
My company has a women’s association. This year, they had a contest for employees to be assigned a higher-up female mentor and I was picked to be mentored. I don’t know who it is yet but I would love to maximize this opportunity. What are some things I can expect and ask for? For context, I’m a mid-level manager with Sr. in the title and have been in this role for three years and at this company for 7. My natural progression (within my company – let me know if this would be crazy at yours) is to Director and I just don’t have enough connections to make this jump. I work in a niche part of a giant company but my skills (essentially business management, finance, and some basic but decent-for-this-company analytics that allow me to find good strategic solutions for my unit) should translate well to other areas. My niche has no new opportunities here. To advance inside, I need more exposure to leadership outside my unit and also a better general understanding of other departments and functions. Is this something I can ask for from this assigned mentor? I just don’t quite get how she can advocate for me without knowing anything about me or my work product. I am told there will be a one-hour phone meet-and-greet to start. What is the best way to handle this conversation?
Before someone asks, I am already looking for outside opportunities (but am still short on connections). However, the question above focuses on the current company because the mandate of this women’s association is to advance talent from within the ranks.
Serafina
It sounds like what you’re lacking is connections all around. I’d ask your mentor for advice on how to build a bigger network and how to get exposure to more leadership / learn more about other functions. If the mentor is so inclined she’ll take that as a note to make introductions for you.
Anonymous
hair color question. I’m 35, with pale skin and dark hair (irish ancestry). I’m starting to get enough greys that I want to color my hair. What do I want to do here? Match my already dark hair? Highlights? I’ve literally never colored my hair and the last time I want to get my hair cut and asked…I was just overwhelmed with terms (oh we can do highlights, or lowlights, or full/ partial, or color correction…) and then when i asked what she’d recommend, she suggested I schedule a color consult (which is free). All I want is a the lowest maintenance way possible to not have such obviously going-grey hair (the white-on-jet-black is pretty striking). I figure i either need to lighten things so the greys aren’t as obvious, or color them all dark to match my natural color.
HALP.
anon
OK, this isn’t exactly what you asked, but take it from the perspective of a 39-year-old who has brown hair and is probably 50% gray at this point.
Once you start coloring grays it is REALLY hard to stop, because then you have a fairly obvious line. Especially as the gray progresses. Had I known at 35 what I know now (that my grays will multiply quickly), I wouldn’t have started coloring. The time and expense s*cks, and it’s hard to imagine the very long awkward stage I’d go through if I stopped now.
Now that it’s out of the way … getting highlights might buy you some time between touch-ups; just know that they won’t cover everything. You can either leave it alone and accept that you’ll still have some grays peeking through, or add a base color that matches your hair if you want more coverage. The downside is the maintenance issue that I mentioned in the previous paragraph.
Anonymous
I’m okay with some grey, it’s just that my hair is so dark that they are visible across the room ;). Adding in a mix of lighter color seems to make the most sense.
Anonymous
I had virgin hair too until a month ago when my hairdresser convinced me to get partial highlights. It was the top of my hair, so like a horizontal line above the ears all the way around. She picked two colors that matched my natural color. It looks great and even though I have layers, the bottom half grays don’t seem to show.
Side note: I saw congresswoman Katherine Clark on tv last week. She has gone gray but she totally rocks it.
Anon
I’m still doing partial highlights to blend the grays in rather than covering them completely because I don’t want the white line at the part that I see in other people pretty often.
I think the trick is to go lighter and lighter over time. It makes the outgrowth less obvious in contrast as you get more and more gray, and lighter hair is kinder to an aging face.
Decision to be a stepparent
I’m in my late 30s with no kids of my own, seriously dating someone who has 3.
I’m looking for thoughts or resources on the decision to become a stepparent. How do you know you’re ready? What are signs it’s a bad idea? Is it enough to be a responsible adult who likes kids, means well, and is committed to doing things slowly and carefully? What are the factors in a relationship that lead to good/bad family blending outcomes?
lsw
From my own experience, here are things to consider:
-do you like and respect his parenting style?
-how is the relationship and how are the expectations with his ex?
-if you want biological children, how disappointed will you be if this doesn’t happen? is he on board? this will add challenges with your stepchildren
-do they have a firm/established custody expectation?
I’ve been with my husband since his daughter was 4. She’s turning 14 in April and we have a 3.5 year old as well. AMA!
lsw
(Also, I have been extremely disappointed at the lack of good books on step-parenting and blended families! I really could have used more resources, especially at the beginning. I have no other friends in this situation so it felt pretty blind at times.)
anon
Also in similar dating situation and have the same concerns.
Isw has a great list I think. Given what I’ve observed of the really strained relationship between my brother and his ex (he very quickly remarried and that has only seemed to exacerbate things) I would add the extra: Is the person you are dating really emotionally healed from his divorce. That can cause issues on going into another long term relationship with someone new.
Also I would add:
Do you like his children and do they like you?
Have you been able to talk to him about how you would fit into this picture as step mom but not mom and do you feel like your opinions and needs are being listened to? Are any of his ideas or expectations on the matter off putting? Listening to your gut is key I think here.
Agree: There’s not a good source of info out there for step- anything. It’s a shame.
Anonymous
Step-parent here. I found the book Stepmonster by Wednesday Martin really helpful. Not gonna lie, it’s hard.
Decision to be a stepparent
Just got back from a meeting. Thanks all! Sorry I wasn’t here to interact!
anon
Proceed with extreme caution if:
– If there is a mismatch in expectations for what your role in the family looks like.
– You don’t like his approach to parenting.
– The relationship between him and his ex is acrimonious, lacks mutual respect, involves a ton of drama.
– You’re not sure you can deal with complications of being part of a blended family. And, I think that is more than OK — it really is not a role to take lightly and won’t ever be as “easy” as a more traditional marriage + kids arrangement.
My brother is a stepparent, and I wish he would’ve thought a lot more carefully about SIL’s wacky custody arrangement with her ex. Brother is actually the parental figure in my niece’s home and is much more of a father than SIL’s ex, but birth dad sure gets to dictate a lot. And I get it; he’s the dad (a crummy one, but still) but from an outsider’s perspective, it looks grossly unfair and I would not handle it well.
anon
How old are the kids? That is an important factor.
Anonymous
What are your favorite veggies/veggie dishes? Trying to get more vegetable options on the table for my family. Nobody is picky, I’m just boring/not an inspired cook.
Can be a stand alone meal or a side.
anon
roasting a batch of things in the weekend on cookie sheets is a great setup for me. Broccoli, brussel sprouts are good just with salt and some oil. Cauliflower comes out nice with some cumin and curry, sweet potatoes with taco seasoning. Lots of people swear by roasted carrots, but I was underwhelmed. Probably because I don’t really love cooked carrots in general. Throwing eggplant under the broiler for a few minutes gives them that roasted flavor. Then you can puree them with or without garlic and put them in all kinds of stuff.
Also I am the last person in the world to get the hang of kale. I hate how regular salad goes soft and wilty, with kale you can put on the dressing and it will keep for 2 or 3 days without problem. It actually gets better/less chewy while standing in the fridge with dressing.
Anon
Agree on kale salads.
This is the salad that finally won me over. It keeps really well and has been a huge hit at two dinner parties since pre-Christmas
https://www.bonappetit.com/recipe/winter-crunch-salad
(I have used roasted chopped walnuts in place of the sunflower seeds both times, mainly because I had some really good walnuts on hand)
lsw
One of the faves I’ve made that everyone seems to love is roasted carrots with honey butter. I got the recipe from Andie Mitchell’s book. It’s so simple but tastes incredible. I’ll often double it.
1.5 lb carrots
2 teaspoons olive oil
1/2 teaspoon salt
1 tablespoon butter
1 tablespoon honey
freshly ground black pepper
Roast at 425. If they are thin, roast as is. Otherwise halve down the length of the carrot. I don’t bother cutting them in half in length because I like the way they look long. Make sure the pieces are relatively uniform. Toss with olive oil and salt and roast on a single layer, stirring halfway, about 40 minutes. I like the tips to get really dark brown.
Close to the end, make the honey butter by melting the butter and cooking in your smallest pot or saucepan, swirling the pan occasionally, until golden – abt 2 min. Remove the pan from heat and stir in the honey. Put the carrots in your serving dish and pour the honey butter over it, tossing to coat.
New Auntie!!
My sister-in-law is having a c-section next week and I will be visiting to help in 3 weeks. What should I expect to be helping with? This is the first baby in the family and the c-section is unexpected. I was already planning on cooking for them and doing things like grocery store runs and other errands/chores (laundry, cleaning, etc.). I’m not sure what the limitations are re: movement and exertion from a c-section.
Also, I want to bring some fun, useful gifts/treats for her and my brother. I was thinking jammies for SIL and good coffee for brother…any other ideas?
Anon
well given that she has a week’s notice it is now more expected than many people’s c-sections. i had a c-section with my twins and physical limitations vary a lot from person to person. i had a horrible delivery with complications, hopefully she will not have that. she will not be allowed to drive initially, so you might have to drive her/baby to doctor appointments. one of my twins was still in the nicu when i was discharged, so i was going back and forth between the hospital each day and not able to rest as much as generally recommended. depending on your level of closeness/comfort you could offer to help her shower if needed, but it sounds like you will be there 2 weeks post delivery so she should be able to do that albeit slowly by then. i think what you are offering to bring sounds great! for your SIL just be careful with sizing for jammies/if she is hoping to try to brst feed. one thing to keep in mind is that people’s emotions vary wildly after the birth of a child and i think there is a lot of unknown with a first child. your sister in law might be wonderful and over the moon or she might be a hot mess emotionally. if she reacts negatively towards you, seems standoffish or isn’t the nicest while you are there, try not to harbor any resentment or hold it against her.
i think what you are expecting to help with sounds great! you could also do some extra cooking to stock their freezer and i love that you are thinking of bringing things for them and not just for the baby.
Anonymous
Good coffee for SIL.
NYCer
Recovery time totally depends on the person. I had a very easy C-section recovery, and at 3 weeks was fully functional and took long walks every day. I think your plan to help cook, clean and run errands is perfect regardless of her recovery status.
lsw
I was surprised by needing bendy straws in the first few days. No C section for my but I was mostly in bed for the first few days and appreciate being able to use straws for drinking while nursing or while propped up in bed. Also I especially appreciate all the snacks and fancy drinks.
rosie
There are a lot of appointments in those first few days/weeks, and she may have restrictions on driving and lifting. If your brother will be going to the pediatrician & any other appts with her, you could offer to drive them both (they’ll be tired) and just hang out waiting. If she’ll be taking the baby alone, you could drive + offer to help carrying the baby in and out of the car and that kind of thing (babys are not super heavy, but the carseats add weight and can be awkward to hold, especially as you’re trying to juggle diaper bag etc.).
Moi
Realize it is late and no one will probably reply —
Headed to Minneapolis from San Francisco in February to visit the university- advice on things to do or restaurants or hotels to get to know the city? So far looking at the Graduate hotel. Any walks along the river or are we kidding ourselves bc it will be way too cold???