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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
Ooh, love the port color here — it's interesting and unusual but still subdued and professional. The dress itself looks great too — we've seen several iterations of this Ellen Tracy dress over the years, and I always appreciate the details at the waist, the hefty ponte, and the range of colors and sizes. The dress is $108, available in sizes 2-16 and in six colors. Ellen Tracy Seamed Ponte Sheath Dress
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(L-2)
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Hair wax
I like this dress, but it’s a tad form-fitting for my taste for the office – I always feel much more body conscious in something so snug.
Can anyone recommend a good natural hair wax/gel that doesn’t contain sulfates, parabens, or artificial fragrances? I’m a wash-and-go kind of person and I generally avoid toxic personal care ingredients to the extent possible, but I’m considering getting a short pixie cut (like a bit longer than Emma Watson’s) and would like to have a few options on hand as I get used to the style. Any recommendations (or tips for managing that kind of hair in general) would be much appreciated!
Science
Toxic = poisonous. None of your listed items are defined as toxic. I completely understand wanting to avoid certain ingredients – that is your prerogative. But please don’t hyperbolize the risk.
California doc
Agree.
There is a lot of misunderstanding out there, and it worries me when my patients come in every day with so much information that gets propagated on the internet.
Savannah
I had a long-in-the-front pixie cut last year (think Jennifer Lawrence or Ginnifer Goodwin), and really liked Aveda’s Control Paste. I don’t recall the exact ingredients, but it might be worth checking out to see if it meets your guidelines. FWIW, I didn’t like a lot of the really “firm” products used for setting funky, spiky styles. Be prepared for your hair to surprise you, cowlicks you didn’t know you had or different textures without the weight of your hair to hold down. The biggest surprise to me was the shape of my hairline around my neck, which is very square and can’t be cut into a pretty v-taper you see on so many bloggers. Also, a good stylist makes a huge difference. I hated my first cut, but switched stylists and loved it after that. Good luck!
CTAtty
I agree that Aveda’s control paste is good; so is their shaping wax. I like the paste when my hair is super short (in the summer) and the wax when it’s a longer pixie (for the winter).
Anonymous
I know the Body Shop has a line of natural products that don’t contain parabens, not sure about fragrance though. And Herbal Essences has some products to that nature, although I don’t know if a wax or gel is part of either line. Sephora is a good place for this too, on every product page they’ll explicitly state if the product doesn’t contain those things.
Anonymous
I don’t mean to come off as snarky, but I do not see how this dress can be viewed as unprofessionally form fitting and I’d like to hear other opinions on this. The line of the dress from hip to hem is pretty straight, so it does not hug the model’s hips or rear. It appears to be near-perfectly tailored through the bust. Am I missing something? If this dress is considered snug for the office, I really don’t know what dress I could possibly wear that would be office appropriate.
Meg Murry
Maybe OP meant it would be too snug for her, personally, on her own body. I carry all of my weight in my backside and hips, so anything like this on the model would be super tight on my larger than average backside unless I ordered several sizes up and then had the waist and bust tailored back down. Or maybe OP is self concious about her tummy, or bust or whatever. This dress looks great on the model, but I could see it being too body con on certain shapes without tailoring.
I don’t think OP was saying “no one should wear a dress like this to work” I think she was saying “I don’t feel comfortable wearing a dress like this to work, with my own preferences and my own body shape.
Jen
For the record, I am an hourglass figure with a large backside, and I own this dress in every single color in which it comes because it looks so flawlessly tailored on me. It isn’t form-fitting–it just looks like it is well cut and professional, and there’s actually a very slight A-line to it that accommodates those of us with larger hips or butts. I have received compliments on it from female clients and female partners every time I have worn it. It’s my go-to.
Parfait
She said “for my taste” and “I feel.” I statements! You do you!
Anonymous
I suspect you could make your own out of beeswax like some people do for facial hair, if you’re not vegan
Anonymous
My more nicely-worded comment got eaten – serious, non-snarky question, how is this dress inappropriately form fitting?
Fishie
Sebastian Craft Clay
Daycare dilemma
Posting here because there’s no new post on the mom’s site. For those of you who have switched daycares, how long did it take your kids to get used to the new place? My son is 15 months old, and we just switched to a new center this week. I expected it to be hard, but not this hard. He screams and cries every morning, and according to them, cries off and on all day. I feel so guilty because the only reason we changed was to make our commutes easier. He always loved daycare in the past. How long can I expect the transition to take??
BKDC
We switched at 12 months, and it took a good month before there were no tears at drop off. The daycare had a two-week winter break, which has caused the separation anxiety to kick back in. It’s brutal, but my son usual is laughing by the time I’m around the corner and out the door. He’ll get used to the new routine soon enough — good luck!
Spirograph
We switched around 12 months and again around 27 months. Both times there were a few weeks of adjusting. Also, switching my 11 month old to a new room/new teacher within the same daycare led to several weeks of crying. Once he understands that this is the new normal, it’s not going to change again for a while, and bonds with the new teachers and kids, everything will be fine. Don’t feel guilty! Easing your commute is important, and your son will definitely adjust. It’s hard in the meantime, though. Good luck!
Anonymous
It will probably take a couple weeks. Does he have a favourite or even familiar stuffed toy that you could send along? My daughter always did better when she had a ‘friend’ to experience the change with. I think she felt ke she and ‘teddie’ were in it together.
Meg Murry
Even at our current center, when our kids transitioned up to the next classroom there was crying at dropoff and throughout the day – I’d say it’s still perfectly normal (although understandably upsetting for you) for this first week, and it will slowly get easier every day. I suspect part of the crying off and on during the day is also just because he doesn’t have words to communicate frustration any other way yet, and the new teachers haven’t figured out all the tricks that work with him – for instance, when he is frustrated is it better to hug him, rub his head or just leave him alone for a minute or two, etc.
Don’t feel guilty about switching centers to make life on your family easier. He will adjust, it will just take time. My kids have been in daycare for years, and this week has still been rough on the 4 year old after being there far less than usual due to the holidays for the last 2 weeks.
Jmm
I remember taking my son to his 15 month check up, and everything made him cry and scared him and he would not cooperate at all. It was the complete opposite of his personality. The pediatrician told us that if there was any visit she wished she could skip, it was the 15 month one because of where they are at developmentally. I wonder if it is the timing of the change and where he is at, rather than the actual change itself (or the daycare center). Hopefully it will pass soon!
OP
I wondered about this, too! thanks for all the replies! I’m hoping it doesn’t take a month, but at least I know not to panic after a week.
Anonymous
For what it’s worth, speaking from the other side as a kid who was in daycare and not only lived in 9 different houses before I was thirteen but also was in three elementary schools and two day cares and lived in three different cities. It was awful sometimes but I’m more equipped to make friends as stages in my life change compared to a lot of people in my age group and I think it ultimately built resiliency in lots of different ways and it’s made transitions in adulthood much easier to handle compared to my peers again.
nice cube
Morning! I am looking for book recommendations for a 5 year old boy who loves math, Daniel Tiger, and Tae Kwon Do. This is for his birthday, so I would like to get books that he can grow into. Any ideas?
Runner 5
The first Swallows and Amazons book
And The Tiger Who Came To Tea!
AIMS
The Phantom Tollbooth.
Anonymous
+1 This book is one of my all-time favorites. So much more fun than Alice in Wonderland or The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. We read it aloud to our kid at around that age.
Anonymous
Rosie Revere Engineer is popular in my house.
Not that you would feel this way but just wanted to vent that it annoys me when people (aka my inlaws) think books with female lead characters are only for girls, it’s a good book – full stop.
Shayla
I was actually going to comment that I am so happy you recommended this given the prompt. Rosie Revere Engineer is a great book, and so is Iggy Peck Architect. I give both books together for first birthdays.
Anon
+1000. Both are popular with my 7- and 5-year olds. Quote the boy last night: “Rosie Revere is a really, really good book!”
Meg Murry
No idea specifically about the likes, but the Elephant and Piggie books were super popular with my son when he was an early reader (first grade), both to be read to and for him to read once he started having reading homework in first grade – and unlike a lot of other kids books, I didn’t hate them.
3 Ninja Pigs is also a fun one – it’s a re-telling of the 3 little pigs, but with the pigs learning various martial arts to defend against the wolf. My kiddo does karate and really liked it.
How far “grow into” are you looking for?
pilates princess
We love the Mercy Watson series in our house.
mascot
My Father’s Dragon trilogy is good. We also like Beverly Cleary, Ralph Mouse series.
Emma
I’ve been reading some recent threads and saw a bunch of posts from newish associates who feel discouraged or are struggling with the transition to law firm life.
I could have written some of those posts word for word, and I want to thank all those who offered some encouragement. Right now, I just feel depressed about work. I don’t think I need therapy, but it is just a harder adjustment than I expected. I get so worried about billing hours, and I HATE having to ask for work all the time! Oh well.
Any other advice on making the transition into big law is appreciated!
Anon S
Emma, I’m a 6th year big law associate. I freaking HATED IT so much the first few years. Things honestly didn’t get better until I switched law firms between my third and fourth year. What do you hate about having to ask for work? Did you work before law school?
Anonymous
I’m not Emma, but as a junior associate I always hated scrounging for work. It’s so awkward. You do the rounds, stopping by every partner’s office asking for work. They always make you feel like you’re interrupting something important. Like you’re a nuisance. And the only thing they ever give you is that article they’ve been meaning to write. Yes, that’s exactly what I wanted. Non-billable work from every partner in the group.
You also try to bring it up in conversation – “What are you working on? That sounds exciting, anything I can do??” – and they shoot you down and promptly forget you ever expressed interest in that subject matter. Then you get your review and they criticize you for your low hours and ask why you aren’t more assertive about asking for work.
3rd Anon
Third anon happy to hear she isn’t alone. All I want is some work to do at work.
JJ
I was so on edge my first two years of law firm life, which coincided neatly with the 2008 crash and layoffs. It’s horribly stressful and having to ask for work does feel awful (especially when you’re sitting in your office thinking “What if I don’t have work because no one thinks I’m a good attorney?”). It gets better! Eventually, you’ll feel comfortable with what you’re doing. It may take going to a new firm–it did for me–but around year 3, everything kind of clicked and I enjoyed my job.
Scarlett
Oh Emma, it’s been almost 15 years since I was a first year lawyer, but I remember it well. I cried every single day on my way home for the first six months (and it took about 2 years to really settle into the job). During what I now call the miserable years, a few things helped me. First and foremost, I became friends with the other associates in my class year at the firm. We got together for drinks every week (Fridays were good for this, even with the likely prospect of working every weekend, you could usually count on a Friday night) and really talked about what we were going through and what our various coping strategies were. To this day, people from that group are my closest friends, first contacts when I need to network or need legal advice on something I’m doing and most trusted advisors. They made it better. Other things that helped – throwing money at some things to make my life easier – wash and fold and deliver laundry, housecleaner, taxi to work so I could sleep a little longer. I also found a more senior associate at my firm who I really admired and we became friends – having someone who had been through it all and survived well really helped too. Obviously my experience was largely made better by the people I was lucky enough to work with, but through those people, I also met other lawyers at other firms who also became close friends and were sometimes easier to talk to. Anyway, I guess my advice is everyone is going through it so don’t be scared to reach out to others in the same position.
Regretfully decline
Question for the hive: am I being a bad friend if I RSVP no?
The situation: a good friend of mine is getting married on 4th of July weekend, in a cute Southern town that’s really hard to get to (think Charlottesville or Charleston). I live in SoCal and traveling to her wedding would require $600/flight with at least 1 layover, plus 2 nights hotel, plus car rental. For my fiancé and myself that means almost $2,000 plus 20 hours on the road/in the air.
I am exhausted just thinking about it. We can’t make a vacation out of this because the timing doesn’t work. Also, $2K is a pretty good chunk of change that we can use for a trip that we’ve been planning.
Can I RSVP no with a clear conscience, send her a fabulous gift, and then take her out to dinner the next time I’m in town? She’s very understanding so while she’d be disappointed, I don’t think our friendship will be affected.
anon
Yes, you may RSVP no with a clear conscience. An invitation is not a summons. You will have done nothing *wrong* by not attending, and thus do not need to feel guilty.
Anon
I think you can absolutely RSVP no – it sounds expensive and complicated and an invitation is never a summons.
But if she really is a good friend of yours, I think maybe it would still be worth the effort. I can see a friendship being affected if one of my really good friends just didn’t want to make the effort to come to my wedding.
Anonymous
Really princess? It’s thousands of dollars!
Anonymous
Calling someone “princess” is unnecessarily rude. You’re not a princess for being hurt that a good friend doesn’t want to make the necessary sacrifices to come to your wedding. We’re not talking about someone who genuinely can’t afford it – of course any understanding bride would be sympathetic to that situation. But it’s pretty understandable to be at least a little hurt that a supposedly good friend would rather use this time and money to take a fun vacay than attend your wedding! I would be.
Anonymous
Yup. Entitled princess. It’s fine for people to not want to sacrifice their own lives to attend your wedding!
Anonymous
I’m glad I have better friends than you!
Anonymous
You can definitely say no, but I don’t think anon’s is an unreasonable viewpoint if it’s a very good friend, particularly if it’s a friend that doesn’t live close by. OP also doesn’t sound like it would be financially undoable–she just wouldn’t be able to use the money for her own trip. But I prioritize seeing my friends that live far away, and weddings are often the best way to do that (and I’ve never *not* had to fly to a wedding, now that I think about it). Also, OP, you mentioned a fiance–are you expecting this friend to travel to your wedding? (it sounds like you don’t live int he same town?)
Mpls
Actually – I think a wedding is a horrible time to visit, if you actually want to visit with the friend. You’ll spend more time with the other guests than you’ll spend with the person of honor.
Anonymous
I assumed she meant see other friends attending the wedding since weddings tend to reunite friend groups.
Anon
And this is why I posted as Anon instead of under my usual posting name…
Thank you Anonymous 2 for clarifying my point – I was definitely intending my point to be specific to very close friends. I have some friends that I would fly to the ends of the earth to go to their weddings and others that I would not go if it was too expensive or too far.
And yes it’s fine not to expect the people to sacrifice their lives for your wedding but I wasn’t saying it’s not ok – just that it may cause some hurt to realize that someone you considered a good friend wouldn’t go out of their way to do something that you would do for them.
Troll Hunter
#trollnonymous.
anon
Jesus. Not wanting to spend thousands of dollars and travel across the country =/= “just didn’t want to make the effort.”
You must be a *really* awesome friend to command that price of admission. Eyeroll.
Anonymous
A very similar situation ruined a friendship of mine. I called the friend and said that while I am from a middle of the country state, I would be on a large extended family vacation in North Carolina right before her wedding, which would mean traveling from the Outer Banks to Orange County. We were broke and didn’t have a lot of time. The last year, she had traveled from SoCal to my middle of the country wedding, which I so appreciated, but I didn’t realize it absolutely obligated me to do whatever it took to get to hers. We have not been friends since then. She acted funny for a while and then admitted that it hurt her feelings that I didn’t go to her wedding when she came to mine. I still wonder if I should have just done it. It makes me sad to think of it.
Anonymous
That’s rough.
Yes, I think most people will be hurt when they take the time/$ to travel to your wedding, and you don’t attend theirs. It is what it is.
the gold digger
I would totally not expect someone to spend thousands of dollars and use vacation time to come to my wedding. I missed several weddings because I could not afford to go. Fortunately, my friends were all very understanding, as we have all at some point been post-college budget constrained, and we are all still friends.
PS And two of the weddings I was able to attend have ended in divorce, for what it’s worth. :)
Allison
If she really is a good friend she’ll understand why her friend can’t make it to the wedding and either let it go and not hold it against her, or if she really wants her friend to be there, she can offer to help with the travel costs.
If I was getting married, I would hope that my close friends and family could make it and I’d probably take that into account when picking the location, but if I did have a good friend who wasn’t able to attend due to distance or budget, I’d feel sad that she couldn’t make it but I wouldn’t take it personally. I learned years ago that when someone says they can’t make it to an event, say you’re sorry they can’t be there but focus your energy into appreciating the people who are going to be there.
Money
Definitely RSVP no. Send a gift and it will be fine. This is coming from the perspective of someone who probably spent over 10k in attending weddings in one year and if you read corporette yesterday you’ll see that my husband and I are NOT in a good financial place right now and you’ve got to put your foot down and say no sometimes!
APC
If you RSVP no, also have a conversation/write a note/email – SOMETHING. For my recent wedding I was much more put off by friends who simply said no (even if they had their reasons) than for friends who explained the situation (of course word it carefully – don’t just say you’d rather spend the $$ on your own vacation – but can’t get the time off of work, tight budget, etc.). And send a fabulous gift (maybe even a little more generous than you otherwise would have) and make sure to express interest in the wedding before and after the event. I think if a friend did all that it would be very hard to be/stay upset.
tesyaa
Can you have this actual conversation with her (stressing the exhausting travel over the money if that would bother her less)? A very close friend of minemisses lot of weddings and other occasions due to a weird work schedule, and she always calls up front to explain why she won’t be attending and to offer good wishes. Better than just sending the card back RSVPing no.
Blonde Lawyer
Personally, I would totally understand someone not having the money to come but I’d be a little offended by someone not wanting to put up with the travel time. Maybe that’s because I’ve been to weddings all over the place in weird locations, including one that required international travel and many of my friends did the same for me. I think it’s normal to expect a good friend to sacrifice some time for your wedding but money hardships are always excusable.
That said, I’d also be offended if a good friend declined my wedding based on a money hardship and then took an expensive vacation that same year. To me that would say my trip sounded more fun and was more important to me than your wedding.
My perspective may be a bit skewed though because my husband’s family were ex-pats and annoying (and expensive) travel to maintain friendships is the cost of admission. (Meaning, there is no local hometown weddings. To have friends from that time period means travel.) Particularly for milestone events.
Anonymous
Ummmm maybe it is? Weddings are a boring money pit.
Anonymous
I’m a bit surprised by this view. I’ve missed a destination wedding and then gone on a relatively expensive trip later the same year (high season airfare cost a fortune but our work schedules limited when we could go). My DH and I really need the time alone without work – my marriage was my priority over the friend’s wedding but I don’t think that makes me a bad friend.
JJ
Agreed completely. Maybe I just have really chill friends, but I can’t imagine them being upset if I couldn’t make it to a long-distance wedding but still managed to go on a trip with my husband/family that year. I know I wouldn’t mind at all if a friend had missed my wedding for that reason. If I can only have one trip during a certain year, I’m going to choose the trip with my family, not the wedding.
Anonymous
Another +1 to this, and while I know the term “bridezilla” gets thrown around a lot here, it is pretty bridezilla for someone to think that their wedding should be the #1 priority use of someone’s discretionary money and time. Tons and tons of people get married every year. We’d all be broke and never go on a single vacation of our choice if we had friends this sensitive about their perfect Pinterest party.
SC
Ha. Anon @ 10:46, you are exactly right. DH and I prioritized weddings. For years we spent almost all our discretionary income on attending friends’ and family members’ weddings, and we still couldn’t make it to all the ones we would have liked to go to. We actually spent $15K in 2014 on weddings and bachelor/ette parties. We also haven’t been on a non-wedding-related vacation since our honeymoon over 5 years ago. Now that we have an 8-month-old and all the expenses that go along with that, we’re starting to decline invitations more often. And, thank goodness, all those people who have gotten married are having children, and sending a gift for a baby is so much cheaper. That said, attending those weddings was our choice, and we enjoyed participating in the celebrations and being with different groups of friends. We also planned and budgeted for all the travel, dresses, suits, and gifts, which forced choices about discretionary income but did not put us in a bad financial position. If someone else has different priorities (and we do now), that’s fine, and I don’t think a couple should be offended.
On the other hand, a lot of people spent a lot of money to travel to and attend our wedding. I didn’t expect them to because many of our friends were in grad school or for various reasons didn’t have much discretionary income. And it meant so much to us that those friends came. We didn’t get offended by anyone not attending, and it didn’t harm any friendships. But over the years, we’ve become closer friends with many of the people who came to our wedding because we’ve been more inclined to sacrifice to travel to see them or to send gifts or cards for other major occasions.
ANP
I absolutely think you can RSVP no, but I would call her before you put that card in the mail. I had a wedding that required travel for most of our guests and was never mad about someone who said they couldn’t come.
Also, to offer a counterpoint to Blonde Lawyer saying she’d be offended if someone declined her wedding and then took an expensive trip — I would assume that you’d already made trip plans and that news of my wedding came later. Or that maybe you’re piggybacking the trip onto business travel or something that made it easy/less expensive. So I’m not sure everyone would feel that way.
Tetra
I’m currently planning my wedding, and my perspective is that I would definitely not be offended if someone didn’t attend because it was too much to fly across the country, no matter what their financial situation is. I am having my wedding in a place where I think most invitees can get to without too much hardship (medium city on East Coast), but I am inviting a few people from the west coast and will totally understand if they don’t come.
anonymous
“To me that would say my trip sounded more fun and was more important to me than your wedding.”
I can understand being a bit hurt/disappointed that my friend didn’t choose to come to my wedding, but I can’t for the LIFE of me see what’s so unreasonable about saying that someone’s vacation sounds more fun/more important than showing up to a cross country wedding.
Dear SmugMarrieds,
Your Wedding(tm) is not the most fun I will have all year, nor is it my highest priority in life. There are many things in my life that are more important than Your Wedding(tm).
Thanks,
Guests.
Something can be out of one’s budget without that person having “a money hardship.” 2k is a LOT of money to spend on one weekend’s travel. OF COURSE it is important to prioritize your friendships. But to pretend that people should prioritize being a guest at your wedding like they plan their vacations is just entitled and myopic. Or worse, to expect that people will prioritize being a guest at your wedding OVER their own travel goals and plans! or other financial goals! Entitled and selfish. If a person has to choose one- wedding or trip- are they expected to choose wedding?
Blonde Lawyer
She asked for opinions so I told her how we have done things in our group of friends. I’m not saying every friend group does it this way. There are 10 or so people that live across the country (now world) and we have all attended each other’s weddings and sadly, a funeral. For years that aren’t wedding years, we usually have a reunion where we all gather at one person’s location for a long weekend. We’ve even taken a week long international vacation back to the country they went to school in. Generally, when planning our vacation time, we consider visiting my husband’s out of state family, visiting my far away bff, and his high school friends our vacations. If there is a wedding that year, that’s our vacation. We tack on time before or after it or go to another location near it, often with people we see only once/year. I’ve been married 10 years and our “just us” vacations have consisted of our honeymoon, our 10 year anniversary trip and one in the middle to just do something different. We also went back to his high school country just the two of us but that was more of a “going home” trip than a vacation. That’s just how we have operated and have really enjoyed it. I get that our group is different, particularly because of how they grew up, and conceded that.
On the smug married bit, it’s actually not just weddings. If we have traveled for all of these meet ups over the years and then we decide to have the meet up on our coast for once and no one from that group wanted to make the trip it would be out of the norm and could cause hard feelings.
Blonde Lawyer
This thread also reminded me that we lost one college friend when after RSVP’ing yes to his wedding, my husband was forced to work and we had to cancel. We at least had a couple of days notice. This was public safety forced overtime not like he didn’t get his work done in time overtime. We still sent a present. Never got a thank you note and never heard from them again. That was petty in my book but I share the story as anecdata about weddings and friendships.
weddings
Why didn’t you just go by yourself?
A lot of people could save a lot of $$ on weddings by cutting the cost in half and going alone. If you are the one close to the bride anyway, doesn’t this make sense?
That’s what I used to do.
Anonymous
Going by yourself is a good idea. I’ve done that. It can cut the cost in half if you can find a friend to share a room with.
Anonymous
So, Blonde Lawyer, you think it’s mean to RSVP no, but you’re fine canceling instead of going by yourself?
Blonde Lawyer
I should have gone by myself. Agreed.
I wasn’t the confident person I am today back then and I’m guessing my anxiety enjoyed the excuse to get out of the event. Also, the person getting married was much closer to my husband than me. No excuses though. I should have gone.
Blue ink pens
Yes! You can RSVP no.
I got married a few months back, and I was honestly surprised (and full of gratitude) by the friends who came from out of town, knowing that it cost them a pretty penny. I would have completely understood if my friends had chosen not to come.
Also – and I know this may come across as mean, but I really don’t intend that – I doubt that it matters that much if you attend. To me, having my immediate family there was “crucial.” I loved having the guests, but my wedding day wouldn’t have been any worse if one or two of my attending-friends hadn’t come.
Sometimes in these threads, I think people put too much emphasis on the guests. (See all those threads about the right to bring a friend as a plus one!) Guests are a fantastic component of the wedding, but I don’t think we should overvalue most guests individually.
Sydney Bristow
I also got married a few months ago and agree with this. It was awesome to see the friends who could come from out of town but I have absolutely no hard feelings for the close friends who couldn’t afford to come. It was inevitable for us as wherever we got married at least half of our guests would have to travel across the country.
I’d rsvp no but also call to explain that you can’t make it but want to take them out to celebrate the next time you’re all in the same city. We had several close friends do that and it was fine.
Anonymous
+1. We were genuinely appreciative that a number of our friends came from out of state to be at our wedding. Some close friends could not come or came without spouses/partners, and we totally understood. I am absolutely baffled by the expectation that people should sacrifice their own vacation plans to attend other people’s weddings, and frankly I’m sick of it. I have been married for 15 years, and in that entire time we have taken exactly ONE vacation that did not involve attending a wedding or visiting family. This is the third year in a row that we have had to spend our entire travel budget attending the wedding of a niece or nephew. At this rate, we are never going to get to show our daughter any of the wonderful places I’ve always been dying to take her, like our amazing national parks. Stop the wedding madness–if you don’t want to go, just say no.
Anonymous
Absolutely!
Anonymous
If it’s a good friend, I think you really should go. I’ve spent in the neighborhood of $2K+ getting (me and husband) to every wedding I’ve gone to in the last 5 years. It’s the price of admission to get to a wedding these days, unless you happen to have all your friends getting married locally. This summer I’m spending ~$1500 to fly to California (from the East Coast) for less than 30 hours to see a good friend get married. It’s what you do for someone you really care about. And I don’t know any late 20- or early 30-something who hasn’t had to sacrifice some vacations because of lack of time and/or money due to wedding travel.
Could you take 1 day off work to give you a four day weekend, which could be a mini-vacation? Those cute Southern towns are wonderful vacation destinations, especially if you’re into food.
good grief
” It’s what you do for someone you really care about.”
Pssshhhhhhhhhhhhh. No. It’s just a wedding. It’s a big party. No one is *obligated* to spend thousands of dollars to go to a party that you’re throwing or risk losing your friendship. Call her a bad friend if OP doesn’t support her friend when her mother has cancer, or when OP doesn’t return her phone calls for days, or OP doesn’t send her a card and a gift when she has a baby, or OP doesn’t come to visit when she’s in town, or….. see what I’m saying?
Come on people, didn’t we just have multiple 100 comment long threads about budgeting priorities in the last few days?
asdf
It’s also the beginning of a marriage. As a bride, it was important to me to be surrounded to those I was closest to as I took a huge step in my own life. Not everyone could come, and I understood, but I was very touched by those who made the effort to be there.
Anonymous
A marriage is more than just one day. It’s just as if not more important to support the couple through the entire journey, not just the super happy picture-perfect day. I think the obsession with needing people at The Wedding is largely held by people who get divorced soon after because their sole focus was on the wedding and not the marriage.
Spirograph
This. If my parents, grandparents, or siblings had blown off my wedding, I’d have been hurt. It’s sentimental to think about it as a milestone, and it is to people who have known you literally all your life, but I don’t think of my friends’ weddings as much more than a party in the context of a more serious relationship, and I didn’t expect them to feel any differently about mine. To our friends (admittedly, we have not kept in touch with childhood friends well), my husband and I were a social unit long before our wedding. We’d been living together for a year, had moved internationally together, etc. There was nothing magical about the day, we just signed some pre-party legally binding paperwork.
Spirograph
Obviously I meant “this” to anonymous, not to asdf
asdf
Agree with Anonymous @1055 that it’s more important to show support throughout the journey but think some acknowledgement of the day is important too. I have a friend who couldn’t make mine for reason’s similar to the OP. She wrote us a really nice card and sent a gift. She recognized that our marriage was a big deal to us without showing up.
asdf
Oh dear. I meant ‘reasons’ not ‘reason’s’.
Anonymous
It’s incredibly demeaning to refer to a wedding as “a big party.” It’s an important life event, just like babies and graduations and cancer and everything else you mentioned (I’d show up for those things too!).
Uh
You would not spend 2K to attend a graduation party. Be honest. I hate weddings and love my friends. I wouldn’t go to this. Weddings are not the most important thing in life. For anyone. Whether you are a bride or a guest. You have a long life ahead. Including, yes, showing up when someone has cancer (ask me how I know). Use your money and time wisely.
Anonymous
I actually have spent thousands of dollars to attend a bris for a family member’s baby and to visit a friend who was taking care of her mom with cancer, so it was not purely a hypothetical. Although admittedly I (and everyone else) gets a lot more invites to weddings than graduations and baby events, so the total money spent on weddings is way more. But I show up to major life events when invited by a good friend (or when I know a good friend needs my support).
Baconpancakes
No one’s saying she’s a Bad Friend. They’re just saying it might hurt her friend.
I traveled across the country to a close friend’s wedding, and if she didn’t come all the way across the country for my wedding, I’d be understanding. We text every couple of weeks, see each other once a year, but she has a kid now, life happens, it’s expensive, I get it. No harm, no foul.
But there’s two women around whose schedules I’m probably going to end up planning my wedding. They are that important to me – and yes, I expect them to come to my wedding, even if I end up moving across the country. If they can’t afford it, I’ll pay for their plane tickets. If they could afford it, but would rather spend the money and time on a vacation, I think I would be heartbroken.
It depends on the friendship, the expectations, and the situation. I can absolutely see someone being legitimately hurt if a friend declines to attend your wedding, but if the OP doesn’t want to go, it’s probably not that big of a deal for her particular friendship.
Anonymous
+1 I think “it depends on the friendship” is really the key. In my circle, which is spread across the US and even internationally, everyone flies to every wedding, so if good friends who had flown to everyone else’s wedding suddenly decided they didn’t want to fly to mine (assuming there was no sudden financial crisis), yeah I’d be hurt! But I also see how people who never fly to weddings would totally balk at spending $2k for a weekend.
Gail the Goldfish
In reading this, I realized that’s why I think that–all my close friends have always flown to each other’s weddings, so if they decided they didn’t want to fly to mine (w/o valid financial reasons), I’d be hurt.
Blue ink pens
I am impressed. I can’t see myself ever shelling out that kind of cash for weddings regularly. I will spend a bit for family weddings (because those are more important to me than friends weddings). If I did spend that kind of cash, I think I’d end up resentful. So I don’t spend it.
Anonymous
I have no family of my generation (no siblings, and my parents are estranged from their siblings, so I have no cousin relationships) so maybe that’s why it’s been easier for me to spend this much on friends. I also went to college and grad school with people from all over the country and then everyone scattered after school, so in my friend group pretty much everyone flies to every wedding, even if it’s not “a destination wedding.” On the other hand, my high school friends pretty much all stayed in our home state for college, and many currently live in our home town or just a couple hours drive away and flying to a wedding I’m sure is very uncommon for them. I think it depends a lot on your friend group and what the standard practice is. Everyone I consider a good friend showed up to my wedding in a hard-to-reach and expensive part of the US, so I want to do the same for them, even if it’s expensive.
Anonymous
I am…the opposite of impressed. This attitude is sort of the martyr approach and also seems to presume that the wedding is all about that one guest and it will just be ruined if she doesn’t forgo all personal wants and needs to make it there. Good grief, 27 Dresses is a comedy for a reason.
Anonymous
I never said the wedding would be ruined if I didn’t show up. Of course not. But brides do really appreciate each guest who goes to great lengths to be there. I did and I know my friends did and many other people have said here that they did. I’m not sure how giving up a weekend getaway so I can be there for my close friend’s (hopefully) once in a lifetime event makes me a martyr. I’m happy to do it and I’m not complaining about it.
Spirograph
It’s great that you do this for your friends, but I really find it sad that this has become an expectation. The only weddings we’ve flown for were for immediate family members. I have friends all over the country, and I love them, but there’s no way I would spend thousands of dollars for a hectic weekend trip to a wedding. I’ve never lost a friend over this stance (probably because they are like-minded). If you can turn it into a vacation, or if you have oodles of money to burn, by all means. But flying out and back to eat a mediocre dinner and appear in someone’s pictures (because let’s be honest, weddings are crazy and I don’t think I’ve ever spent more than a few minutes talking to the bride and groom unless I was in the wedding party) is not a good use of my time or my money. I feel like the expectation of all the friends attending all the weddings is a carryover from times when people tended to spend their lives within a small radius.
OP, I think you can absolutely politely decline in exactly the way you suggest, but probably don’t mention that you want to spend the $2k toward your own vacation (not that that isn’t a good reason, it’s just not a good one to highlight). Just, “I’m so disappointed, but we won’t be able to make it. I’d love to celebrate with you next time we’re together.” *send gift* If your friend is a nice, reasonable person, she will not hold it against you.
Anonymous
And you’re probably one of the people from yesterday with $200k in student loan debt.. ..
Anonymous
Nice try, but nope! I paid off my student loans quickly and have saved very aggressively. My only debt is my mortgage. And fwiw, my income is very healthy but not terribly high by the standards of this community (not Big Law or the like).
Anon
Unless I was in the wedding, I would personally RSVP no. I would never expect that any guest attend my wedding if it wasn’t in the same city they lived in or really close (and even then, the only people I would “expect” to attend would be family and close friends). For my own wedding, I actually called two of my friends who lived similar distances and told them that, while I would absolutely love for them to be there, I had zero expectations for them to drop that kind of time and cash just to come to my wedding. I agree that dropping her a personal note in addition to sending back the RSVP would probably be a nice touch.
AIMS
I agree – I don’t think that anyone who plans an out of town wedding in a hard to reach location over a holiday weekend, esp. if they are generally understanding, would be offended at you for not attending. Also, as an aside, I have a few friends who eloped or had small family only weddings and I’ve taken them out to dinner or celebratory brunch and they all have said that it was nice to stretch the celebration this way. You’re more likely to meaningfully celebrate your friend and her union after the wedding anyway.
Blonde Lawyer
I didn’t see in the post that this was a destination wedding. It could be where she lives now or where she grew up. It is just out of town for the OP.
Anonymous
Yep I’ve flown to every wedding I’ve ever attended, and in all but one instance it was the bride’s hometown or current city. “Requires flying” does not equal “destination wedding.”
AIMS
That’s true, but if I am from a small hard to reach town and I invite people from a different far away town, I would be very understanding of their not being able to attend. Just as I would if I was having something local and invited someone who had to travel far to be there. Not destination wedding in the sense of “let’s all go to Jamaica” but destination in the sense of “people will be traveling long distances, inc. the bridal couple.”
Gail the Goldfish
Same here. If you don’t expect guests to attend the wedding unless they lived in the same city or close, most weddings I’ve been to would have like 20 guests, tops. People in their 20s/30s now move a lot more than they used to. There is literally no city I could have a wedding in that would not involve plane rides for the vast majority of my friends. But for the most important friendships, I’ve flown to all their weddings, and I suspect most will fly to mine. Inconvenient to use vacation time and money that could have been spent on personal travel to go to weddings? Yes, but sometimes that’s what you should do. Because they’re good friends.
Gail the Goldfish
Though I do think putting weddings on holiday weekends is generally not the best idea as that’s when people tend to have other plans.
Gail the Goldfish
Ugh, I miss the edit button. This also assumes friends can actually afford it, which sounds like OP’s case. If it’s really a financial burden (not “it would cut into our vacation”), I would understand.
Cat
I would RSVP no (but call her before just dropping it in the mail!). I’ve done the reverse trip (PHL to SoCal for a wedding, connections each way, actually physically in CA for about 30 hours) and I was so exhausted and thrown off by jet lag that I didn’t even have much fun at the wedding itself — not to mention re-adjusting come Monday morning, because apparently my body got JUST ENOUGH onto CA time to screw me up until Tuesday.
ANYWAY, good friends understand, particularly if you make an extra effort to keep up the relationship.
Anonymous
Good people understand that they are not the center of your world, and that not traveling cross country for their parties is totally cool.
KateMiddletown
I skipped the wedding of one of my closest friends right after having a baby. I regret not being there, but it was a no direct flight situation, plus arranging childcare, plus I had just taken 3 mos unpaid maternity leave (non-profit). They are still some of my closest friends.
bridget
Must say, I am surprised at how casually some people talk about spending two thousand dollars on a weekend.
That’s not a politeness/friendship thing; it just means that you run with an affluent and spendy group.
Your pretty and fun wedding does not mean that your guests are socially obligated to take their yearly vacation at the locale of your wedding. Nor are they obligated to eat noodles, raid their emergency funds, or put it on a credit card.
The economy has been in the dumps for seven years. Is it really that hard to understand that some people are reluctant to drop two grand on a three-day travel and party event?
Anonymous
Yessssssss.
Anonymous
“Nor are they obligated to eat noodles, raid their emergency funds, or put it on a credit card.”
I’m one of the people who said I spend $2K on every wedding and I agree with this statement 100%. I would never encourage someone to spend that kind of cash on a wedding if they truly cannot afford it. But that is not OP’s situation at all. It sounds like she could easily afford it, she would just rather not do it. That is what I think could be hurtful (again, assuming we’re talking about a “good friend” – of which I would say I have less than 10 – not simply a casual friend or acquaintance). Being there for someone’s major life events (to the extent you can afford it) is part of being a good friend. And while I haven’t eaten ramen, raided my emergency fund, or gotten into credit card to do it, I have given up taken a vacation to a place I wanted to go. The place will always be there, the good friend is only getting married once.
anonymous
“Being there for someone’s major life events (to the extent you can afford it) is part of being a good friend.”
I disagree with this so much. This is part of being a rich friend. This is also just her literally being present for the party. I’m sure OP has been a good friend to her friend throughout the process of her dating her fiance, whining about him, talking about the wedding planning, and will be there for her in her marriage.
I can *afford* a lot of things.
Does that mean that I *should* buy them? No. Does that mean that they are in my budget? No.
I mean really, paging Money from the other day! People in that thread lambasted her for her spending choices, and now people are skewering OP for not being willing to spend 2k on a weekend- just because it’s a wedding. We have no idea what OP’s financial’s are- we just know that she’s planning some trip at some time with her fiance. Amazing.
Anonymous
No one is “skewering” OP, just saying that they understand why the friend might be hurt if she doesn’t attend. If OP’s question had said “This wedding is going to cost us $2K we shouldn’t be spending right now,” I don’t think anyone would be encouraging her to go. I certainly wouldn’t have been. From the tone of the question it really seemed to me that it was less about the money (of course $2K is a good chunk of money for all but the very rich, but it didn’t seem like it would seriously affect OP’s finances or spending) and more about the vacation time, and what I was saying was I can see how it’s hurtful for the bride if one of her closest friends decides that vacationing in the Caribbean that year is more important than being there to celebrate her marriage.
I really take exception to your statement that this is a “rich friend” thing. I am not rich. Nor are most of my friends rich. We’re all financially comfortable and we’ve prioritized showing up for weddings (and other life events, lest you scream “smug married”) over certain other luxuries we might want. You can have a modest income, stick to a budget and be financially responsible and still show up for your friends (at least to a degree).
anonymous
“I really take exception to your statement that this is a “rich friend” thing. I am not rich. Nor are most of my friends rich.”
Look. I’ve been out of school for a few years and I make $135,000/ year. Am I rich? I guess so, by the vast majority of the country/world’s standards. I will just never get on board with the idea that spending two thousand dollars on a wedding is not a rich person thing. I would only do for my very best friends or close family. I agonized last year over a weekend trip that would have cost 1,500 for a friend’s “milestone” birthday, and eventually decided I couldn’t do it. I agonized over a 1k wedding trip that I wound up making. I think there’s a real issue with setting the expectation that people need to “show up” in ways that cost them thousands of dollars, especially where these are not life or death situations- they’re fairly routine.
I’ve got 80k in student loan debt, live in a fairly high COL area, rent a 1 br by myself. 2k is a month of living expenses, it is 4 extra student loan payments. It’s the root canal I’ll probably need. It’s all the money I’ve spent on health care in the last 3 years. It’s 1 year of funding my sport. It’s 4 other plane tickets to weddings/funerals/weekend trips. It’s more than I spent on my last week long vacation. How people spend money has consequences. You spend 2K on one wedding, 1K on another, 500 on two others, and you’ve spent 4 grand. Even if it is technically “affordable,” choices like that are how people wind up wondering why they haven’t saved enough for retirement, or can’t make a down payment, or still have student loans 15 years later.
OP’s original question was whether she should “feel guilty” for not going to her “good friend’s” wedding (I didn’t get the impression that this was one of OP’s closest friends). I simply do not think it’s reasonable to expect her to feel guilty or say that she is not “showing up” for her friends, because she does not think it is within her budget to spend 2k on a wedding. We can agree that showing up is important, and I think we do. It’s just a question of whether, for OP, she should feel guilty about not spending 2K to show up.
Anonattorney
To Anonymous@1:12 — VERY well said. I agree 100%. Especially with this: “I think there’s a real issue with setting the expectation that people need to ‘show up’ in ways that cost them thousands of dollars, especially were these are not life or death situations – they’re fairly routine.”
The issue is that this stuff becomes “offensive” – and I put that in quotes for a reason – when everyone starts expecting you to show up. If the message is that we’re only good friends if we spend money to go to weddings, then brides will feel justified in being upset if their friends don’t show.
Anonymous
+1 to all of this.
Anonymous
“I have given up taking a vacation to a place I wanted to go. The place will always be there, the good friend is only getting married once.”
Except that the lovely natural setting or the opportunity to go or the chance to take your child there and form a lifelong memory might NOT always be there. And if you and your spouse each have five or ten good friends and several siblings and even more nieces and nephews, each of whom is only getting married once, or in some cases more than once, you will be dead before you are done attending weddings and can travel to the places you want to see.
Anonymous
If you’re really flying to that many weddings a year I find it hard to believe that none of them are near (or at least within driving distance) of some cool natural setting or place you can form memories with your kids. If want you really want is to have the memories of a family vacation, I don’t think that’s mutually exclusive with attending all the weddings. If you miss a good friend’s wedding because you *have* to see Iceland *this year* then I think that’s kinda selfish.
Anonymous at 10:55
We can only afford to take one family plane trip per year. For the past several years we have been planning to go to the Grand Canyon. Then someone goes and gets engaged and my husband says, “Sorry, honey, but we have to go to the wedding. Maybe next year.” So we go to some lovely place like Orlando instead. I want my kid to have memories of camping for days on end in national parks, not side trips from some crappy wedding.
Anonymous
+1 to anon at 10:36.
bridget
I don’t think the OP can easily afford it – it is almost 100% of her travel budget for the year.
Look, I have traveled for weddings. A lot. I have sacrificed – a lot – to go to them. I have not taken a “for me” vacation in nine years.
At this point, I will shamelessly spend money on the vacation I want, where I want it, and when I want it. Most people spend less than five minutes with the wedding couple.
An invitation is not a summons, and no one gets first dibs on my bank account.
Anonymous
I don’t see anywhere she said it is “almost 100% of her travel budget for the year.” She said $2k was “a nice chunk of change” – which is a statement I would agree with, and my travel budget is much, much greater than $2K. Just because it is a nice chunk of change doesn’t mean you can’t afford it.
bridget
She said it was the wedding or the vacation she has started to plan with her fiance.
Two grand plus twenty hours of travel is a LOT to ask of a friend whom you’re going to hang with for five minutes.
the gold digger
Seriously! Two thousand dollars is three mortgage payments for us! It’s a major car repair, it’s one sixth of a new roof, it’s one third of our property taxes, it’s a nice vacation on Madeline Island! It is a lot of money!
Brunette Elle Woods
Everyone’s financial situation is different. Some people think spending $200 is a lot and other’s wouldn’t give spending $2,000 a second thought. If you can’t afford it, then tell her over the phone and send a nice card and gift. That’s it!
Meg Murry
I don’t run in the same financial crowd as the rest of the group here, but my opinion is that there are 2-3 people in the world I’d do whatever it takes to make it to their weddings, a handful I’m willing to jump through some pretty major hoops for, but $2k and a couple of vacation days is beyond that.
For my very best friend in the world who was getting married across the country (and who’s wedding I was in), I made it work by going without my husband and negotiating extra unpaid days off of work. Was it a big sacrifice for me? Yes, but one I was willing to make for her. It wasn’t one I could afford to make for every single one of my friends though.
I’m pretty sure a bride getting married over 4th of July weekend knows that there will be people that can’t make that trip. However, I also think that if you really really wanted to, you could make this work (for instance, is your fiance also friends with this woman? if not, could you find another person in your close friend circle to also do the wedding solo with you, which would at least cut the flight and rental car expense in half?)
I don’t think declining this wedding will ruin your friendship – but I do think you need to make an effort to do something to make it up to her otherwise, and understand that this means she probably also will not move heaven and earth in the future for you either.
An.on
Same. When my father died and I was 5,000 miles away, I did not buy a same day $2500 ticket, because of a moderate income and $900 tickets available the following day.
Anonymous
Off topic, but airline miles are very good for booking emergency same-day flights. It was the only way I could get my husband across the country the same day when his father had a stroke. The price was through the roof but the amount of miles required was totally reasonable. And now I hoard miles for this exact situation.
Anonymous
Thank you anonymous at 11:22 – this comment is incredibly timely and may save me several hundred dollars today. I had no idea that last-minute fares were so cheap with miles.
ems
I don’t know if airlines still do this but they used to have bereavement prices for last minute flights (to reduce the cost of an unexpected flight).
Didn't ruin a friendship
Not sure if you’re still reading, but I asked a similar question a few months ago. Most commenters jumped on to tell me that I’m a terrible friend and the bride was lucky to find that out before saving me a seat at her wedding, so I’m glad to see some people saying it’s ok to RSVP “no”! I called my friend to explain that I couldn’t come, and she was totally fine with it. She and her fiance stayed with us a few months prior to the wedding when they were in our area for another event, and I’ll be back in her city in a month or two for work, so I’ll tack on an extra few days to take her and her new husband out for dinner. I sent a nice gift, called her to dote on all her wedding pictures, and we are still friends. Life happens, and a truly good friend would understand that sometimes you can’t do it all. Besides, you probably won’t get to spend much time with the bride if you’re not in the wedding party, so while I’m sure she’d love to see you, I don’t think your presence will be missed so significantly that it ruins her day or your friendship.
Anonymous
You don’t “have” to go, but I will say this. Eight years after my own wedding, I’m very close with virtually all the friends that went to the time and expense of attending, and have drifted from many (if not most) of the friends who were invited and didn’t attend. It wasn’t so much that I was mad or hurt at the ones who didn’t show, and I certainly didn’t end our friendships over it. But I was so appreciative of the people who did come that I went out of my way to be there for their weddings, and then they were there to mark the milestones that followed my wedding, and then I did the same for them, and the friendships have just really deepened over time and they have become my “ride or die” friends. So when you’re deciding whether to go, you might think about where you see your friendship with this friend in 10 years. If you see this person as being one of your closest friends for life, it might be worth it to mark this milestone with them, even if you’re not enthused about the wedding destination.
Anon
Here is the thing though- I am a single 36 year old woman – and in my 20s I went to LOTS of weddings – many out of state – many very expensive. I have NOT gotten married so friends have not gotten to experience the choice of whether to spend thousands of dollars to celebrate my happiness yet. However, when my Dad nearly died and was in the hospital for months and my mom and I needed help it was amazing how many of those people who I sacrificed for, and stayed in touch with, and made extra effort to attend their wonderful event were suddenly unavailable because of DH commitments or kids. Everyone has life events that are important – what those events are differ for every person. So my advice is You do You. True friends do not keep score – and understand that you can be over the moon excited, thrilled happy and everything else for them – but that for you and your life attending their wedding doesn’t work – doesn’t mean you don’t love them and value the friendship. If your friend cannot understand that, well, then, the definition of friend has changed and to echo below STOP THE WEDDING MADNESS.
Anon
Doesn’t anyone ever step back from this whole wedding sh1t and say Stop The Madness?
It is a complete racket. It stresses out the bride and groom, the parents, the guests and those who aren’t guests.
It’s only gotten worse in the age of social media where it’s all about having the perfect moments and photos to share. Even the proposal has to be choreographed.
You know what’s important in a marriage? THE MARRIAGE. Not the wedding.
I have never ever even once regretted that my husband eloped.
Anon
*husband and I eloped
anonymous
Yes, this is completely ridiculous. We eloped too.
Anonymous BigLaw Associate
This times a thousand. I find the whole industry to be such a racket. My husband and I debated what to do for our wedding for literally years-between the money, family drama, stress, etc. Eventually, we just went to city hall and do not regret it. We still got dressed up, hired a photographer, and went out for a fancy lunch after, but it was just me and him. It was actually a super fun relaxing day.
Also related to the comment on the proposal. After we’d been together for years, began living together, and casually mentioned marriage from time to time, we had a talk where I explained I didn’t want an engagement ring. When we decided to get married, it was more of a conversation of when it would be a good time.
A lot of my friends gave me a lot of flack for all of this. “It’s so unromantic!” Well, no, it is romantic that I have a partner who is willing to listen to me and that we work things out together. A perk is that we have tens of thousands dollars now that we would have otherwise spent on a wedding and my ring.
Anonymous
You absolutely can decline. I had a small wedding two years ago, in a hard to reach California location, and none of my closest friends out of state were able to make it, but instead sent heartfelt congratulations. I knew when I planned the wedding that was the likely outcome, and even over-analyzed if I should invite them, as I didn’t want them to feel guilty for not coming, or feel compelled to send a gift, even though I requested no gifts, but at the same time didn’t want them to feel excluded. And we are still good long-distant friends, no problem.
Clueless
Continuing the money line of thought, because it’s my New Year’s Resolution to be better at it! I’m the awful relatively recent law school grad who has never made a budget before. Never had money problems, never had debt, but never been particularly good at it either. I can be saving and investing more aggressively. I already signed up for Mint as a starting point, and am a little overwhelmed because besides my fixed expenses, I have no idea what to budget for much of anything and I feel like I’m missing lots of things. Does anyone have any resources for books I can read to get a jump start on things? Would a financial advisor be useful in helping prepare a realistic budget and helping to set realistic savings goals? I just feel so lost. TIA!
TO Lawyer
I would recommend you start by tracking your spending for a month or two so you can see where your money is going. Track every cent and then you can get an idea of what categories are inflated and decide on where/how to cut down.
emeralds
Way to go for starting the process! You can absolutely do this and getting your finances in order is such a great way to start the year. If you want to go ahead and get started now, you can also do this in reverse–look at your credit or debit card statements for the last few months, and see what you spent money on. Other things that I include a budget line for, so I can start saving ahead and don’t get an unpleasant surprise: car insurance, personal property tax (or any other tax-type things you have to deal with, based on your own specifics), annual medical or veterinary appointments, birthdays (everyone that I have to get a gift for has a birthday in August so I can’t spread the gifting out), Christmas next year.
It’s also okay if this is a process, and it takes you a few months to really get a handle on your budget. I moved for a (great!) new job in August, but it more than tripled my living expenses–I was also in the never had money problems, never had debt, always saved, but never had a strict budget either, camp, and realized quickly that was not going to work. I got YNAB in October and I feel like it took me until mid-December to start figuring out a workable budget.
You can do this. It’s okay to feel overwhelmed. You do not have to have a perfect budget and all of your savings goals right now. You just need to keep going down the path you’ve started yourself on. It will come together.
lsw
^this is what I did when I started using Mint. I went back two or three months to see what I typically spent on utility bills, restaurants, etc. and used that as a starting point. It’s really easy to adjust your budgets in Mint, so don’t worry if it’s not exactly right. After a month or two, you’ll probably realize – “wow, I spend a lot less on gas than I realized” or “I spend that much on restaurants?” Try not to get too hung up on making a “perfect” budget – give it your best guess and get ready to adjust up or down over time. It’s especially helpful that you aren’t starting to budget in a crisis situation, so you have time to figure out your best budgets.
Summerstorm
How do you like YNAB? I’m a 3rd year associate in BigLaw. I’m in the same camp–no debt and some savings, but have never budgeted. I’m trying to save aggressively in 2016 and am looking for a budgeting tool.
emeralds
I like YNAB a lot, and for reference, Mint enraged me when I tried it my first year out of college because “you’re supposed to have a budget.” There’s a bit of a learning curve but once you get the hang of it, the software is really intuitive and the support/webinars/forums are SO helpful. I haven’t tried the new web-based version yet, but I haven’t heard anything too negative so far.
Anonymous
Some people don’t need a budget. My husband and I make $200k and save $80k per year. We’re just naturally frugal people so we don’t stress out about tracking spending because we think we’re doing great. We still live in our first home with no plans to upgrade. Most of our friends live in homes twice as expensive (and twice as big) as ours.
emeralds
I’m glad that works for you, but I don’t think this is helpful or realistic for most people.
Anonymous
I think of it like Weight Watchers. I need to record every bite I eat or I gain weight. Loads of people are fine with just making good choices.
I don’t have a budget because my internal “can I afford it” questioning works just fine and I don’t think that’s a crazy unhelpful statement. A budget is great if you don’t understand your money or want more info or are struggling to make a change but it’s not a requirement.
emeralds
But the OP was specifically asking for tips on budgeting. I also think, after having been like you with the internal “can I afford it” metric for almost all of my adult life, that having a budget has made me so much more intentional about how I spend and prioritize money–that would be a good thing regardless of whether or not my finances had changed the way they did, such that I *needed* a budget for the first time in my life. If that’s not important for you, cool, you do you–it sounds like you have a great thing going. But based on the number and length of finance-related posts over the last few days, please do realize that what works for you is not going to be what works for most other people, even those with comparable earnings.
Runner 5
When I started budgeting I had no idea what I would need to spend on things. So for the first 6 months or so I took what I wanted to spend monthly, subtracted the monthly fixed bills, and divided what was left by five to give me a weekly money pot. Then I wrote down absolutely everything I spent and divided it into the various categories. Over time, patterns emerged which gave me my initial monthly budget pots which I used when I started envelope budgeting (I use Goodbudget).
bridget
One of the pieces of advice I really like is to plan for “unexpected” emergencies. Yes, some are really high, but a lot of stuff averages out. So let’s say that in a given year, you have one-time or unexpected expenses of:
Excise tax on car
New cell phone
Car repairs and maintenance that is usually $1500
Professional association or bar dues
Medical expenses that are usually $500
So you add everything up, divide by 12 (or 26, if you want it by paycheck), and say that you’ll need $250 a month for one-off expenses.
(The downside is that you might get slammed with a lot in the first part of the year, but it at least helps you to plan.)
Stormtrooper
Books: I will teach you to be rich (seems to be geared directly to people at your point in life, but useful for me, even though I read it much further along in life)
You Need a Budget podcasts
KT
Suze Orman’s Young Broke and Fabulous is a great beginner’s primer for event hose people who are non-broke.
Besides the normal monthly expenses, make sure you also include those big expenses that only come up once a year–like car insurance or Christmas spending. Take what you spent last year, divide it by twelve, and set aside that amount each month (I designate separate accounts for these). I also set aside monthly line items for car maintenance/oil changes, medicine/doctor visit cop-pays, etc.
Traditionalist
Congratulations! This is a great step and you can totally do this! I agree with all the advice to figure out where your money is actually going before setting up a bunch of categories on Mint/YNAB. Be prepared to tinker for a while — you will almost certainly think something like, “$50 on Uber in December! That’s obviously an anomalous month!” and the proceed to consistently spend $60 on Uber for each of the next 3 months. Then you’ll decide whether you can live with that, and therefore decrease in other categories, or whether you really should make an effort to bring that particular number down.
For a super bare bones way to get started, I like 50/30/20. I think this is Elizabeth Warren’s thing with her daughter? The goal is to spend no more than 50% of your income on fixed expenses (things you are absolutely obligated to pay, either because you need a roof over your head or because you are contractually obligated to pay them); 30% on discretionary stuff (yes, you have to eat, but not necessarily at Ruth’s Chris); and 20% towards savings and/or debt repayment (in addition to what you’re obligated to pay, e.g., on your car note). Maybe give that a try to see where you stack up, and then make some adjustments going forward. For example, you can save $150/month by cutting out a daily latte, but you could rent a cheaper place and save twice that every month with one decision.
You might also check out The Simple Dollar. His life is very different from yours (writer in Iowa with 3 kids), but he breaks things down really well for those just getting started.
Good luck!
Traditionalist
ETA — The Simple Dollar is a blog, www[dot]thesimpledollar[dot]com
anon
Kat, I keep getting posts from this site in my RSS feeder from a Hassan about different wireless carriers… Are those spam or legit?
www dot best-cellphone-plans dot com forward slash 2016/01/att-prepaid-phone-plans.html
Anon S
Can we talk more about money? How do you reconcile being swamped at work but saving money? For example, if you’re swamped at work you probably don’t have much time to prepare and pack a lunch so it’s easier to spend 10 bucks on lunch at the office. Or you don’t have time to coupon and plan grocery trips so you go buy whatever is there regardless of whether it’s on sale or whether you have a coupon, or you use instacart which you then have to pay a delivery fee and a tip. Or you’re swamped so you take a cab instead of the bus/train.
Thoughts?
Anonymous
When I’m swamped at work, I save more money because I don’t have time to do the things I normally spend larger amounts of money on: nice dineeds out, massage, shopping, etc. I do find myself paying more for convenience like you’re taking about but it doesn’t nearly offset my decreased spending in the other areas mentioned.
Anon S
Anon at 10:19am, I’m almost the opposite, if I’m swamped at work I want to “reward” myself with a massage and then I do stupid online shopping to destress.
soaps
yes, me too :(
so much online shopping.
Old OP
I’m the OP who posted about being swamped at work and I’m super interested in this too – money definitely buys more convenience and time-saving, but then you end up saying goodbye to frugality! I could buy a car and get rid of my far-from-the-grocery-store problem, but how is that more frugal/better for you than spending more time to bike there? It’s a constant conundrum on so many levels of daily life.
Money
That’s what I am trying to figure out now too. My husband and I are both busy (him way more so than me) and we have high incomes but we are so cash poor. Trying to figure out a budget now and get ourselves out of student loan debt but it’s hard to know where to make cuts. If he’s billing 2600 hours a year does he really have to brown bag a lunch every day or never buy craft beer or never take a cab to work, etc. Hard to know where and when to draw the line.
Anonymous
Brown bagging it may not be necessary but lunch should be a $10 sandwich and drink from the local coffee shop/deli not a $40 sushi order. And maybe no to craft beer or a limit when going out (e.g. – budget for evening out is $30 – he decides if that’s three regular beers or two craft beers).
Starting to see how you guys ended up in trouble if this kind of stuff isn’t obviously to you – I mean that kindly – I was honestly surprised that you asked this.
Money
Oh it’s fine, please continue to kick my a$$, I need it. No one is ordering 40 dollars of sushi for lunch, def just doing 10 dollar lunches but if he does that every day that’s 2500 a year. For the beer, he buys about 2 6 packs a week (I was referring to buying beer for home, not drinking beer when we are out), he drinks the “nicer” beer and not, say, bud light or miller light.
That’s what I meant about when and where to draw the line.
tesyaa
There are no “rules” about which beer to buy, but you should consistently be making choices between which “wants” take priority, based on personal preferences. There will definitely be some pain involved.
Anonymous
$10 deli lunches and 2 6 packs of nicer beer are not what have you in so much debt – definitely take a hard look at your budget. Those seem like reasonable choices so you both clearly have the ability to make sensible money decisions – you just need to get your numbers sorted and debt prioritized.
Suburban
+1
JJ
It’s not either/or. He can have less expensive lunches. You can buy craft beers and wine and drink them at home–not at a bar–and it’s considerably less expensive. Brew coffee at home instead of buying Starbucks, etc.
Money
JJ so you don’t think it’s bad to buy lunch every day (cheap lunch) instead of brown bagging it?
Also
I’m not JJ, but “bad” is spending money like you have an unlimited supply amd having no idea of where it is going, and being in over your head.
$10 a day on lunch can be a budgeted priority. My husband really enjoys his morning ritual of picking up tea and breakfast from the lovely little shop around the corner. It’s about $10 a day. So that adds up…but it’s in the budget, and in contrast, he maybe spends $400 a YEAR on clothes.
Being an adult means making choices about what is important to you and spending within your means accordingly.
tesyaa
You keep saying “bad” like there’s a moral judgment involved. It’s a question of priorities. If making a bagged lunch is going to make him absolutely miserable, that’s not a great place to save money. But there is probably some other place he can cut.
If he doesn’t want to give up *any* o f his treats, you need to have a deeper conversation.
tesyaa
And I agree that it’s the bigger-ticket treats (e.g. expensive vacations you can’t bear to do without, expensive household upgrades) that are the place to focus, not on saving a few dollars on groceries or lunches.
Walnut
Watch to see if the $10 lunch is actually $10 morning coffee and sandwich, $10 lunch, $5 snack and soda in the afternoon followed by $50 evening meal. Suddenly the issue isn’t “just” lunch.
envelope/discretionary
You guys may benefit from the “envelope” system. My husband and I each have separate checking accounts, and one joint. Every two weeks, we are automatically transferred the same amount of money in our separate accounts. For that two week period, that is the amount we can spend on anything we want/need. The amount we arrived at includes certain non-discretionary expenses (like, gas), but largely, you can use your “discretionary” money for whatever you want.
If I want to blow my two week discretionary on clothing and then brown bag PB&J, that’s fine – my choice. Same for my husband. He hates bringing his own lunches and loves fancy coffee, so he can draw-down his discretionary all he wants on that stuff (which I think is a waste of money). It keeps both of us from second guessing the little daily purchases that we value differently.
Money for babysitters and nights out is budgeted out of our joint account. At the end of the two week period, we usually only have a few dollars left, which is the point. The discretionary amount was decided last in our budget – after we agreed on various savings and investment amounts. The system takes into account the daily purchases you need and has a LITTLE extra for wants. THe way we caame to the amount was that no one can decide solo to make a huge purchase with the discretionary funds, but no one can side-eye any little purchases made with it either. He can’t eyeball the new slippers I just bought, and I won’t side-eye his ridiculous coffee purchases. Win/win.
JJ
Everyone above me gave pretty good answers, but I’ll my budget/priorities as an example. My husband and I like good wine. We look high-quality food. It would be really expensive, really fast if we went out and had a nice bottle of wine and a nice meal every Friday night. Instead, we buy nice steaks/fresh fish and wine to have at home for “date nights” each Friday night. We prioritize it, but find cheaper options.
I can’t eat lunch at my desk every day. It makes me depressed. I’ll pack my lunches for 3 days a week, but the other two days, I’ll go pick up something from somewhere (Chipotle, salad place, etc). It’s relatively cheap, and it’s enough to get me out of the office for a mental break.
Money
envelope – think that’s what we’re going to end up doing. Yesterday I sat down and printed out our joint accounts and my personal account spending for the last 3 months and divided by 3 to see where our money is going per month. We’re going to sit down and talk about it this weekend. Think we’re going to have X amount go into joint and X amount go into personal, and then the personal accounts will be for exactly what you said – for him, buying beer, buying lunches, buying football tickets, gifts, whatever.
Anonymous
I bill 2700 hours per year. I have a preschooler. I pack a lunch everyday for him and for me. You can do this.
Cat
To get in the mindset of staying frugal even while busy (because I REALLY wanted to get rid of my loans), I calculated my take-home hourly rate — and before making a purchase, forced myself to think about how many hours I worked for that money. If I thought “OMG no way was I on that 7pm conference call for this JCrew order” then I closed the window! If I thought “OK this $15 delivery charge allows me 2 hours on the weekend to chill – worth it” then I proceeded without guilt.
On the grocery point, I used to be you, Old OP — Biglaw, no car, and at least a 1/2 hour walk to a real grocery store. My solution was doing monthly “supply runs” to the grocery store, using a Zipcar, to stock up on dry goods like soup, pasta/pasta sauce, marinades, rice, potatoes, PB, etc etc. I might spend $300, but then all I’d need to pick up during the week was meat and fresh fruits & veggies, which were of course pricier to buy at the small, high-end butcher/grocer near my office, but again, cost of convenience.
AIMS
I think it depends on your situation/budget, but whenever I’ve been swamped and very busy I didn’t think too much about it because I also didn’t spend on other things that week/month like dinner or drinks with friends, shopping during my lunch hour or after work, getting a manicure or whatever else I might normally do if I have some free time. Also, I wouldn’t be cooking any big meals for dinner at home, so even if I bought lunch rather than packing, it sort of evened out when I warmed up Trader Joe dumplings for dinner at home instead of making fresh salmon and whatever.
That said, I think sometimes you can fall into the “I deserve a treat” trap where you work late so you end up taking a cab or buying pricey take-out, and then I think it’s just important to keep track of that spending if you’re going to be having a long busy stretch so you don’t overdo it.
Runner 5
My big money pit is food so most of my strategies relate to that. I’ve developed various packed lunches that don’t need any preparation and a few more that require a litle preparation that can be done way ahead of time. Namely, pre-prepared pasta pots which you just heat (In the UK they’re under the Dolmio’s Pasta Vita brand). Not cheap but a lot cheaper than a bought meal. The ‘little prep’ meals are either making a whole loaf of bread worth of sandwiches in one go, or slicing up a premade or homemade quiche into slices, and freezing all of the individual portions. Just grab and go in the morning.
Money
I think we spend way too much on food too, we’re going to start buying the frozen meals to put in the microwave instead of spending 50 bucks a pop on ordering dinner.
Care
Grocery stores have been getting better and better at the more “family sized” (even families of 2) frozen meals lately. Also, if Trader Joes is convenient for you, they have a really good refrigerated meal section that feels more fresh to me than the frozen stuff, but it goes bad faster so I have to mix it up. If you currently order dinner every night, don’t switch to never ordering. You will both resent it and you may fall out of the good habit faster because of the resentment. Just reduce your ordering and make it fun to find new (less expensive) things to eat. Cheap food isn’t always bad food!
Runner 5
One thing that really helped me was to be more comfortable with ready meals. I had been set in a mindset of either having homemade food (frozen or just made) or eating ‘out’ which even cheaply does add up.
Wildkitten
I love evol frozen meals. They’re so easy to make, portioned for two, and faster than delivery.
Carrie....
You do have to devote a little time and energy to thinking your options through, but even when you are busy you can make the time. It just has to be a priority for you.
I work crazy hours as a doctor. So I carefully chose where I live to minimize my commute, while also being modest in my choices so my place doesn’t drain my income. This is your largest expense, so I cannot reiterate enough…. choose wisely. You also have to place a value on your time, and therefore your commute. It is critical to do this when you work long hours.
When you shop for food… no, you don’t clip coupons. But you buy what is on sale, which is often in season. You get some things in bulk from Costco. You learn how to cook simple things in bulk, and you freeze them/eat leftovers. You find the trader joes frozen meals that work for you. It is very easy when you work crazy hours to eat crap and gain weight. You need to put a little thought into your diet. Grabbing prepared foods after work from Whole Foods is probably better for your health than ordering Thai food again. But definitely make it easy on yourself. When I am exhausted, I eat what I want. But as I am getting older, the pounds come on easier when I do this.
$10 daily for lunch? No excuse for this. I’m sorry, but get some nuts, fruit, yogurt etc… and keep at your desk. Then add to that with a salad from the salad bar if needed or bring in left-overs or your own veg. You are wasting a lot of money on that.
Try to learn how to use your time on the bus/train. I do CME (continuing medical education) podcasts, for example. Or use it as downtime and listen to fun podcasts, read etc… But if you are leaving work at 11pm and the trains only run once an hour at that point, of course you cab it.
Or Move.
If you cannot afford to take the time to do these things – then you need to re-assess your job. You are sacrificing too much… your health and your future financial stability…. working this job. Something needs to change.
bridget
I found that stepping things down a notch (instead of to bare minimum) works well for me. So instead of spending $2.50 on an individual hummus pack at the coffee lounge at work, I will buy the same thing at the grocery store for $1. Now, I could probably buy the ingredients for half that and make it myself, but I just can’t get myself to stress over fifty cents.
Or if I have somewhere to be after work and need dinner, I get a slice of pizza or a small salad ($3 or so) instead of a full meal, then eat a nice homemade mini-meal when I arrive at home.
Yes,I buy the slightly more expensive pre-portioned oatmeal packets and individual yogurt cups instead of a big thing that I can scoop out of. Again, we are talking small money for a lot of extra convenience.
Money
bridget, I really like that idea of stepping things down a notch. Thank you!
Stormtrooper
I do it all on Sunday… grocery shop, prep food as much as possible for the week, pay bills, etc. I also make sure I have things at my office to eat in case I forget something that I made for lunch.
I try to cook at night because I like too, but we also keep easy and quick things (think pasta, frozen meals, chicken meatballs from the freezer) handy in the event the day has just been too crazy to cook.
I quickly ‘clip’ digital coupons when on hold on the phone, or right before I run into the grocery, or whenever I have a couple of free minutes and think to do so.
Carrots
What site or app do you use for digital coupons? All the ones I’ve ever seen have been the kind where it seems you have to print them out before you use them.
Bonnie
You can still be frugal even when you’re swamped. I don’t have time to make my lunch but buy Amy’s frozen meals instead of paying $10 for a sandwich. I also use Google Express to order water and snacks directly to mce. Trader Joe’s frozen section is also a savior for us. Their frozen lasagna is a quick and healthy family dinner and thir frozen pasta with sauce bags are delicious. We also buy salads from the deli bar and cut up fruit. It’s more expensive than doing it yourself but much cheaper than ordering out.
anon Q
Regular poster, going anon for this.
My life is pretty awesome in many ways: great family, awesome community of friends, job I really like, money in the bank, time and money to give back, opportunities for travel and growth, etc.. But… you know where this is going… I’m mid-30s and single. I don’t want to be. With the exception of one relationship a couple of years ago with someone I thought was put on this earth to be with me (which ended because of completely different future goals), my relationship status has been basically single. I date as much as I can online or via setups or the occasional guy I meet at a party, but I’m not clicking with anyone.
I already know what to do, for the most part. I don’t beat myself up about it too much. I try to work on the things I can control (going on lots of dates) and not worry about the things I can’t (the timing of when I might meet someone). My question is more about how to face the future knowing that meeting someone, the one thing I want the most in life, is not really within my control.
In a world where every other social media post talks about the love of one’s life and how one’s life had no meaning before baby, it can be really tough to just slog through with no end in sight. If those are the things that give life meaning, does my life have no meaning? I don’t think so, but it can be rough sometimes when I want those things so badly and they seem to come so easily to everyone else.
So how do I face the future when the one thing I want the most is not really within my control? I’m not old, exactly, but I’m also not young and I just want the next step of my life to be here already. When I try to tell myself I should just accept the life I have, I feel like I’m selling myself short. My friends found husbands and had babies! Why can’t I try for those things? But then it’s like I’m setting myself up for even worse disappointment if I don’t get those things…
Any advice or words of wisdom? Thanks so much.
AttiredAttorney
I don’t have too much to offer other than support and commiseration in the fact that you are not alone. My life is 99% great, and I’m grateful for it, but I’m right with you on meeting someone. The only thing that I’ve found that is helpful is yoga and meditation. The centering/calming exercises are great for teaching techniques about letting go of the things you can’t control in all aspects of life, not just romance/babies. They help quiet the mind when it starts running wild with “what ifs.”
anon
I could have written this. For me, the feeling of “no control” was the worst part. So I tried to do things like sign up for new classes, attend events that were different from what I normally did, and otherwise do things that added to my enjoyment of life as well as “put myself out there” as they say. I tried to do this without the expectation that it would help me find someone, but that in general I would be expanding my social networks as well as increasing my own knowledge/enjoyment of life.
I found it really helpful to hide some people on social media. There’s only so many “My DH is the best man ever!” photo captions and “The boy who made me a mommy!” posts I can handle.
Carrie....
Honestly…. I would think about a brief course of therapy. You sound very level headed, and are in an environment where options should be there. Maybe it is time to have someone outside of your immediate circle look at you to see if there are any issues “getting in the way”. It’s worth a shot.
Meanwhile, start volunteering. If you are really not sure about how life can have meaning without having a family, then try to widen your world, as you have a lot to learn. And I’m not talking about a local women’s club…. something real that can have an impact. Start a new hobby, join some MeetUp groups, and STAY OFF SOCIAL MEDIA.
Brunette Elle Woods
I could not agree more with the advice of staying off social media. Unless you can really look at all the engagements, weddings, and babies and be truly happy for them, avoid it!! It just makes you feel worse about yourself and your life when there’s no reason to.
Anonymous
YES. It has taken a long time, and quite a bit of therapy, for me to accept that I was exhibit behaviors that were turning off potential mates even though my friends LOVED that version of me. I am still uncovering these types of things as I go along. I was happily bebopping along as a successful, fun, single, me, while my dating was proving wholly unsuccessful. My friends all said I was an amazing person, I am conventionally attractive, fit, smart, successful, etc. I didn’t realize that some of the things I was doing, that seemed normal to me or that didn’t trip off my radar, could potentially turn off the type of man I wanted to attract and wanted to be with. TRUST that it was not easy to come to this realization or accept it, but therapy helped me and I don’t think I couldn’t have done it otherwise.
I have met someone who I anticipate I will marry and who wants to marry me and even now, he will gently point out past behaviors that, if not remedied, would have been deal killers for me. These behaviors were not anything I believed were out of the ordinary or that reflected badly on me FWIW.
anon Q
Like what!? I’m so curious. What are these behaviors?
anon
I’m curious as to what these behaviors are, Anonymous at 11:39.
I fully believe that being single DOES NOT require therapy.
HOWEVER, I will say that therapy has helped me identify some behaviors and thought patterns I had that were causing me to struggle in certain relationships- namely, that I have a strong fear of vulnerability to the point that I was likely hindering the evolution of my relationships (with dating, friends, and family). Does that mean that I am a bad person? No. Does that mean that I am doing things “wrong”? No. Does that mean that I’m turning guys “off”? Hell. No. But what therapy helped me do is give me a) language and frameworks to identify and to describe troubles I was experiencing and b) a tool set for dealing with them.
And I didn’t even know that that was an issue until I spoke about my feelings out loud to someone with training! Don’t think of therapy as a desperate attempt to fix something wrong with you. Think of it as a mirror- an opportunity to reflect on and investigate yourself in a new way.
Anon
“I was exhibit behaviors that were turning off potential mates even though my friends LOVED that version of me.”
Would you please elaborate? I am having a hard time coming up with a hypothetical example here — not that there aren’t any, but it sounds like you’re great so I don’t understand what all these “deal killers” you have are…?
Anon at 11:39
It’s hard to explain without doing down the rabbit hole, but I will try my best. I suppose I should also say that I am assuming my friends loved this version of me because I was invited to everything, involved in everything, no one pulled back from me (the opposite in fact), we are all still friends now that I have changed, etc., but I of course cannot say for sure that people weren’t talking behind my back about me.
I was super social butterfly, party girl, super flirty, with some very active social media attention seeking behaviors (tons of pictures of me out and about). I wasn’t irresponsible in a way that made my friends have to take care of me or anything like that and I had the money to do what I was doing. There were always comments of she’s the best, she’s so fun, oh that’s just crazy Anon! In hindsight, perhaps my friends didn’t love my behavior so much as they were amused and entertained by it. Either way, with the exception of the ones that still party super hard (not me any more), I am still good friends with my core friend group. I was super fun, always involved, crazy social girl, which doesn’t equate to wants to be in a serious committed relationship IMO even though I was trying to date and saying I wanted to be in a relationship. I was volunteering, successful at work, etc., and I am not trying to say you can’t be social and be in a serious relationship, just that a man who wants to be in a serious committed relationship in their 30s or 40s (my target age groups), probably wouldn’t have been interested in the super social butterfly chick. If that makes sense.
I am still social, I still have fun, I still volunteer, etc., but it’s in a more mature way IMO.
Anonymous
I’m also curious. I have no doubt that I’ve got behaviors standing in my own way but I’ve just been told “you need to act ditzy at first, guys are intimidated by smart women” and “guys want to feel needed, so pretend you need his help with something around the house”… Based on Anon @ 11:39’s presence on thiss!te, I’m going to guess she didn’t hear those and go “yes, I’ll do that!” So I’m interested in the more substantive behaviors that people other than non-old-biddy relatives are spotting (I go to a therapist but haven’t found it useful on this specific point).
Regular poster
So I agree with this. A dear friend of mine is single and I really wish that she would pursue therapy or at least solicit advice from her friends on why she might be single. She is great on paper (highly educated, pretty, good income, friendly, blah blah) but has two weird quirks: she is EXTREMELY guarded about herself in a way that is just off putting. One example — she doesn’t drink alcohol and when someone asks her why, she responds, “I don’t want to answer.” This is odd. She could just say something like — I don’t like the taste, or I don’t need it to have fun, or any number of things. But because she basically gives a non-answer, it creates more of a barrier between her and the person.
the other quirk is that she giggles after almost everything she says, including about things that are not at all funny. I love her but it is grating, and I would think that a guy would be supremely annoyed by it.
So bottom line….you’re probably fabulous and have just had some bad luck. But I don’t think it’s the end of the world to try to ask some (very trusted) friends or a therapist if there is anything you are doing that could be impinging your dating.
anon
“A dear friend of mine is single and I really wish that she would pursue therapy or at least solicit advice from her friends on why she might be single.”
It’s this sort of language that is hurtful. It is rude and hurtful to assume that there’s something wrong with her and that’s why she’s single. That it’s her “fault” that she’s driving men away. That if only she was “good enough” or “doing all the right things” she’d be rewarded with a boyfriend. And BTW, unless her friends have heard it straight from an ex who dumped her, they have no f’ing clue why she is single. I have friends who have FAR worse traits than being guarded and giggling who still manage to be in relationships. I’m the anon at 11:52 who rec’d therapy and stated it helped me.
Anonymous
All kinds of horrendous people find love!! Just the way they are!!
Anonymous
Shut up. Just. Shut. Up.
Being single doesn’t require therapy.
Volunteering isn’t a substitute for a partner and child, if that’s what you want.
anon Q
I totally get that, but I do see some validity in Carrie’s… response. I mean, what else are you supposed to do, just sit in your room and cry? Volunteering does help enrich your sense of the world, of giving back to a community, and of being part of something bigger than yourself. I have lots of resources and time and energy to give, so why not?
Carrie.....
Obviously, that is not what I wrote. But we all read based on our experience. You seem…. angry.
We don’t all get what we want. It’s up to you/the OP how hard you want to push for your goals. I’m giving her options to think about. There are many of us out there without partners and children. We make it work, and many of us realize lives can have meaning without self-propagation with a traditional partner.
Anonymous
I am angry. At people like you who view single people as broken.
emeralds
Yo, Anonymous at 1:37, I don’t see anyone here saying single people are broken. The OP is saying, “I want to be in a relationship and I’m not.” Everyone else is saying, “Maybe try therapy to see if there’s anywhere you could be getting in your own way, if finding a relationship is important to you” as one path of many (which also include community engagement, self-care, getting involved, leaning on your support networks, etc.), not “Go to therapy because you’re single and broken.” If she had said, “I’m single and loving my life!” I don’t think anyone would be telling her to talk to a therapist.
And FWIW, I’m not saying your anger is unjustified. Society’s treatment of unpartnered women sucks and is rage-inducing (along with its treatment of partnered women…women with children…women without children…professional women…women who stay at home…perhaps I’m sensing a theme). I’m saying slow your roll since people are responding to a specific situation here, and unless I’m reading Carrie…’s responses wrong, she is also unpartnered and child-free.
Carrie....
I’m single too.
I hope you can figure out a way for yourself, too.
Ellen
Or just hope like I do that a man will come into your life and take over all of the things we do NOT want to do. I need a guy to handel all the finances and to give me the feeling I am in charge, even if he does all the work around the house. That is b/c I will bear him children and do all the necessary wifely thing’s that make him happy. It will happen, Grandma Leyeh says, but I can NOT be to picky at this point b/c I too am in my mid 1930’s, my egg’s are getting stale, and there is no prince charming on the horizon. FOOEY!
bridget
Two pieces of advice:
Hang around people a generation older than you are. You’ll meet some people who never found “the one” and still have fulfilling, meaningful lives, and you will meet people who first got married in their 40s.
(Now, I am childless and unmarried, but I think people who talk about how their life had “no meaning” before hubby or baby are twits. Sorry that you suck at finding joyous, meaningful ways to spend your time. I spend a lot of my free time working with teenagers, and have had the opportunity to do meaningful work for causes I care about. I was helped out by a lot of people who aren’t family, and, knowing how much it meant to me, try to pay it forward literally almost every day.)
Second piece of advice: find something you care about, and spend some of your free time doing it. Be that person you had,or wished you had, in your life.
anon
+1. I’m recently married, marriage is cool and husband is awesome, but my life was awesome with plenty of meaningful things and relationships. Totally agree with bridget on this.
Anon
Something that I struggle with (mentally, as I am in a maligned demographic on the dating scene), is the idea of filling your life with hobbies, friends, family, work and volunteering such that you have to give up some of it once entering into a relationship.
I would advise volulnteering in an environment that does not a high percentage moms. Not all moms are like this, but it seems that when there are a significant number of women gathered, they connect on the highs and lows of motherhood. Men do not seem to do this to the same degree.
profmama
+2
Married at 41, baby at 44. Spent lots of time looking & hoping in my 30s, but also did plenty of cool stuffy, travel, and finally therapy that helped me overcome some of my guardedness (still working on that!) to be more vulnerable and open to a relationship.
Not saying that “single” = “broken”, but why not take this time when you have plenty to work on yourself and learn to understand yourself better with the assistance of a trained guide (therapist)? An investment in oneself and self knowledge is always valuable.
anon for this
I was the OP for most of my adult life & therapy, hobbies, etc. didn’t do anything to make wanting a relationship better for me. What did work was aggressively dating and spending a lot of time figuring out what I was looking for in a significant other. I made it a point to screen well before a date – dating anyone who asked would have been too exhausting. I kept a list of the “top 3” must-have and used that as the filter for all my dates. And when I was 40, I finally met my person and we got married six months after we met & we love each other just as we are. I feel very lucky, and also like this may not have happened no matter what I did. I share it only as a “it can happen, and it might happen later than you thought it would” story. There’s a lot of just plain luck in meeting the right person at the right time for both of you involved. And that piece is out of your control, unfortunately. And there’s sadly not much you can do about that.
Midwest Mama
Could you maybe reframe your thinking as it *kind of* is within your control, and you’re doing your best by putting yourself out there, trying to meet someone, etc.? I understand what you’re saying and how you’re feeling, but you are doing what you can to make it happen and you deserve credit for that. I also agree with trying meditation. I recently started doing just 10 min per day and am surprised at how much better I’m sleeping, how less stressful my problems seem, and how calm that short time makes me feel.
JP
No real advice or words of wisdom, just sending you lots of hugs and positive vibes. I have been there and it sucks. I did go to therapy when I was feeling very frustrated about being single, and I worked on some of the things that I learned were making it hard for me to find the right people…and I met my husband shortly thereafter. Anecdata, but the outside perspective was enormously helpful and helped me change a lot of my patterns. For example, I am a planner, and after one promising date I would let my imagination run away and I would plan my whole life with the person before the second date. I would then then have impossible expectations and be crushed when either they didn’t like me or I learned that I didn’t really like them.
Also, agree with muting people on facebook or staying off altogether. I am much, much happier when I look at facebook less.
anon
What if you’re in a similar position, have tried therapy (at some length, and at some expense), and the right person STILL hasn’t come along? I’m not trying to rag on you or the other posters who suggested therapy, but this kind of advice comes up a lot, and… I’m just not sure it’s a cure-all. I mean, maybe I’m like the other poster who just presents herself all wrong, or whose expectations are out of whack — but if that’s it, my therapist and I haven’t hit on it yet.
Carrie...
Of course, it’s not a cure-all. You are certainly right.
Sometimes we just don’t find it.
Sometimes we don’t get everything we want.
Sometimes it is hard to meet guys who match our needs/interest and feel comfortable with our success.
Yes, it does get harder as we get older.
We also make mistakes. We sometimes don’t give the right people a chance.
And a lot of the “good ones” do get snatched up early.
Sometimes we just have bad luck.
But I also know many people in unhappy marriages. I know many people that have been divorced.
I have several close female friends who will likely never marry. Some of these women have had children “on their own”, and are doing well. Most of them would have preferred doing it with a partner, but were done “waiting”.
When I was in my 30’s, men in their 50’s hit on me. Now that I’m in my 40’s, men in their 60’s and older hit on me. My father has been mistaken as my partner. This is life. I have to laugh it off.
And I keep moving forward.
You never know what’s around the corner….
Senior Attorney
My therapist once told me “most men are unsuitable.” For some reason I took great comfort in that. You really are looking for a needle in a haystack. I found mine and I swear it still seems like nothing but a miracle. I will say it took a while for me to recognize him for the gem he is, so if you’re quick to write somebody off you might want to take a look at that.
Also, don’t automatically dismiss guys who are a little older. Gentleman Friend is 11 years older and it’s fine.
It’s just hard. The best any of us can do is try to be as happy as we can in whatever situation we are at the moment.
Anonymous
Carrie, you are awesome. Thank you
the gold digger
I didn’t meet my husband until our 20 year college reunion. (Reunions are a great place to look for used husbands.)
I am happy I met him and married him, but I would also be happy living alone. The things that bothered me when I was single have not been solved by marriage. I promise I am not trying to be patronizing or condescending – but marriage doesn’t fix everything.
That said, I hope you find happiness in whatever form and that you can be not lonely. Big hug. :)
Brunette Elle Woods
That’s what I think of when I’m feeling down about being single. Marriage and kids do not suddenly make your life perfect. They can contribute to your happiness, but they also bring a lot of problems of their own!
ITDS
Ha ha! Used husbands! That’s brilliant. My father once advised me that if I wanted a dog I should get a “used” one, since I had never had a dog before, and that way the dog would know what to do. I suppose it could work the same for husbands!
lsw
I don’t know why that is so hilarious to me. I guess because it’s such a “dad” thing to say.
Alana
Out of curiosity, what things still bother you?
At this point I want companionship, compatibility, hugs/touch, shared expenses and shared responsibilites.
the gold digger
I have discovered that my need for companionship is not as high as I thought – I am way more of an introvert than I ever knew and living with someone after 20+ years of living alone is a lot harder than I thought it would be!
I am not as lonely as I was, but I spend more time being frustrated at dealing with someone else. And, in my case, I had the additional drama of in-laws who hated me and told my husband not to marry me and that they were going to boycott the wedding. (One of the reasons they didn’t like me was because of the way I eat bacon.)
I love my husband but man, being married to someone brings a whole new set of problems – bedtime, what is an acceptable level of clean for the tub, how long his year-long break from work that has turned into 15 months now because he ended up spending the entire time dealing with his parents’ medical dramas and deaths is going to be really, how warm we keep the house.
I love him, but when he dies (which I hope is not for a long time), I will not remarry! I am not built for compromise.
(Upon re-reading this, I think a lot of our challenges have come from his parents and their drama. Maybe now that they are dead, our lives will get easier!)
Senior Attorney
Oh my gosh! “How warm we keep the house!” I swear, my worst, most bitter fights with The Former Mr. Senior Attorney were about the a/c in the house!
There was a comedian who had a routine that went something like “Why did we get divorced? Because we lived in a house. With a thermostat…”
Same boat
Right there with you (30’s and single). I really, really, REALLY want kids so that part of it is especially hard for me. You have the right attitude about it: unless you’re not putting yourself out there (and it sounds like you are), it’s basically out of your control, and the part you need to focus on is not what you should do differently but how to make peace with that fact. I think it’s particularly hard for us overachieving types, because we’re used to the idea that if you just work HARD enough, you can make anything happen. Please don’t listen to anyone who tells you that you should be doing anything differently. You’re doing everything just right. It’s just luck. And ignore all of the married people who tell you that they’re not that happy. There are happy and unhappy people in all situations in life, but it’s still OKAY to WANT this. There’s no magical amount of time when you’ve passed the “happy to be alone” test and therefore “deserve” to meet someone. Read Sara Eckel’s amazing book “27 (Wrong) Reasons You’re Single.” (It’s not what the title makes it sound like it is.)
As for accepting it… I’m still working on that. My best advice is to build the life you would want if you don’t get this one thing. Right around when I turned 30, I was dwelling on this quite a bit, and decided to sit down and ask myself what life I would want if I assumed I would never meet someone. I realized that the only times in my life I was just as happy and excited as when I had been in love were when I was (1) spending time with good friends or (2) traveling to crazy and exotic places. I had always wanted to travel and live all over the place, but instead had spent the past decade stuck in one city. And most of my good friends live around the country/world, but I rarely saw them. So I ended up deciding to very aggressively save money with the goal of quitting my job and traveling the world for almost a year. It’s now about to happen, and I’ve never been more excited for anything in my life. My married-with-kids friends all say they’re jealous, and it’s hard for me not to scream at them that they have no idea how much I want what they have. I’d trade my upcoming adventure in a heartbeat to have a family. Given that that just hasn’t happened for me, though, it’s a pretty awesome consolation prize. Figure out what yours is, and go after it.
Anonypotamus
What a fantastic, positive way to think. Love it!
emeralds
+1,000
Tigermom
Wonderful wonderful wonderful. Safe travels and hope you love every minute of it
anon
you never know – maybe you will also meet someone on your trip!
Monica
I don’t have much to add, except to say that you are not alone. I, too, am in my thirties, and, save for one LTR in my early twenties, have been single most of my adult life. I would encourage you to find more hobbies, if you haven’t already done so. I started drumming in my late twenties. It proved to be a great creative outlet. Writing music with my band has given me a sense of purpose. I find that focusing on my blessings helps. I have a supportive family, a great career in law, a myriad of talents and financial security. Same boat is right. Build the life you want. It may include a family of your own; it may not. But it can still be meaningful.
I would say therapy is only a requisite if you find yourself falling for abusive or emotionally unavailable partners. I can only speak from my own experience, but working with a psychologist has helped me realize I was, and still am, attracted to unavailable men. I hope you do not struggle with the same affliction.
It sounds like you are a well-adjusted, successful woman. Keep your chin up and make yourself happy.
Anon
Have you tried the year of yes concept? You can google it but basically it is about being open to anyone and anything.
I’m basing this on a couple of friends who are single in their 40s and wish they weren’t. These are successful, attractive women who are a heck of a lot of fun to be around. But if they get hit on they call the guy a creep. They wouldn’t date anyone who makes less than them. They don’t like this or that about a guy (like he doesn’t tick every box on an endless checklist) so there is no chance of even entertaining a date.
I’m not saying to settle. I’m saying everyone is worthy of a conversation, whether it’s a 15 minute coffee date or just not brushing off the guy who tries a bad pick up line at happy hour. You might be surprised.
Miss Mollie
My words of wisdom to you are this – focus on the awesome life you have created for yourself. A romantic relationship may add to your life, but will not create happiness if you are not already happy and content.
I am 37, never married, no children. I have no marriage prospects at this time.
My advice to you is to live your life as you are. Love can have a way of finding you when you least expect it. Don’t search for things or compromise yourself just to say you are on a relationship. It is better to be happy and single than in a relationship and miserable.
Katie
Not much to add either, but I’m in a similar situation. I will echo Same Boat’s note that we overachieving ladies are extremely hard on ourselves. I have always believed that if I just WORK HARDER at something, I’ll achieve it, and I have struggled greatly with coming to the realization that life simply doesn’t work that way. Especially relationships. For me, therapy has been helpful, but it’s not a must and not for everyone. (I had some concurrent issues that caused me to seek therapy, but that’s where I happened to learn that what I always thought was an admirable work ethic could also be to my detriment.) I too, have a hard time when things aren’t in my control, and for me, Brene Brown’s TED talks and some of her writing on vulnerability and imperfection have helped me. I think most people would look at me and think “She has it all” but when you don’t feel that way yourself, it’s very very hard.
I think you sound awesome and that you’re doing all the “right” things. Sending hugs and encouraging vibes your way.
Jen
Nothing to add to the below, but just wanted to be yet another person to say that you are not alone–not everyone is getting engaged, or having babies, or getting married, or even having successful dates. I’m in my early-thirties and have been single for about three years, and (like you) am doing all I can to lead a happy life while putting myself out there.
I will say that it is a relief to hear women like you here saying exactly what I feel–that it’s painful and frustrating to not be able to plan for or work harder to achieve success in finding this one thing we really want. Wishing us both luck–
Legally Brunette
I’m looking for an alternative to wearing a cap so that I can avoid “flat hair” syndrome. I have really fine hair and wearing a cap makes my hair really flat on top for the entire day.
I have worn earmuffs in the past and they have been so tight and have given me a headache. But that was years ago and I would be open to wearing them if anyone has a good recommendation.
Any specific recommendations on ear muffs or other good alternatives to a cap to keep warm in cold weather?
emeralds
I usually wear ear bands instead of a hat on my way to work, which isn’t perfect but does help with the hat hair. Etsy has plenty of good options. https://www.etsy.com/market/earbands
X
I like coats with hoods. They have the extra benefit of keeping the back of my neck warm, too
Legally Brunette
I definitely wear my hood, but it’s very cold here so I want something in addition to just the hood.
Anon8
Can you wrap a scarf around your head in addition to the hood?
Carrots
This may or may not work for you, but the one thing I do is flip my hair to the other side of my head at the part before I put my cap on and then flip it back to the way it should be when I take it off. For me at least, it keeps the hair from faltten down too much – I don’t know if this would work the same way with finer hair.
NYC tech
Yes – this plus a tiny shot of dry shampoo at the roots when you flip your hair back works wonders.
lsw
This is amazing. Why have I never thought of this?
KateMiddletown
I received a pair of chinchilla earmuffs last year as a gift and they are the best thing ever. http://www.amazon.com/FursNewYork-FES35R-Rex-Chinchilla-Muffs/dp/B000GIYPMU
Wildkitten
That’s not chinchilla, that’s rabbit.
Woods-comma-Elle
Yes, earmuffs! No specific recs as I tend to just get random ones, but getting earmuffs that don’t have a plastic headband might be helpful. I never get those because they do hurt like crazy – there are loads that are softer (made of soft material or wire covered with fabric). Also, there are loads of different shapes to fit your ear, so you should be able to find ones you like. There are ones that go entirely over your ear, or then softer round ones that can be more comfortable.
The other alternative is some kind of hood.
Runner 5
I wear loose slouchy hats and don’t tend to have a problem. It’s better if my hair can sit for a while after styling before the hat goes on, though – gives the style and hairspray time to ‘sit’.
Anon in NYC
A beret. I have a larger head and a lot of hair, and it has really helped!
Link here: http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/parkhurst-angelica-angora-beret/4199539?origin=keywordsearch
Faye
Dressing myself help!
Just had a baby and getting ready to go back to work. I still have a pretty big tummy so I’m very apple shaped right now. (I’m usually hourglass or pear, so I have no idea how to dress this body. None of my tops fit these nursing boobs either. Gah.) Any pants I try on either give me muffin top or inch down after a few laps around the store. How do I find pants that fit and stay up, without looking sloppy? I feel like a belt just accentuates my already huge middle. What should I be looking for?
espresso bean
Caveat: have never been pregnant.
What about tunic dresses/long sweaters and tights/leggings? This is assuming your office is more on the business casual side. Seems like a more forgiving combination that would allow for your changing size in the months to come.
NYC tech
I had a couple pairs of maternity pants that actually fit me better for the first few months post-partum than they did when I was pregnant. These were skinny jeans (or similar cut in other material), with a full belly stretchy panel. Maybe something like that would work for you too?
ANP
Pants were hard for me in those early months after baby — I found skirts and dresses much more flattering.
I’d recommend some skinny ponte pants (lots of stuff out there right now is work appropriate – biz casual – with a stretchy waistband) and flowy tops that skim your middle and your b00bs. Scarves and statement jewelry are your friends, too.
Anonymous
you can also use bella band with your regular pants
Anona
I would look into skirts and dresses – ponte pencil skirts, dresses maybe even similar to the one in this post. If you work in a more casual environment, you could probably layer a long cardigan over them to casual it up.
If you want pants, try stretchier pants like Betabrand’s straight leg office yoga pants.
anon
10 months pp here. I gave up on pants and just wore skirts and dresses (maybe skirts more than dresses if you are pumping). Even now, when I am the same size as pre-pregnancy, my shape is enough different that my previous pants don’t work and I don’t have time to go try on a hundred pairs of pants — so I have only one that works. Warning, though, not to go too crazy buying clothes just yet. I had *zero* work clothes that fit when I went back to work so I did have to buy some things, and within a month none of them fit me anymore.
Anonymous
Maternity pants!!
SA
These are amazingly fabulous. I have two pair and wear them every week. Occasionally more than once, don’t tell. Super stretchy, elastic waist but look very professional.
https://www.betabrand.com/collections/dress-pant-yoga-pants-collection.html?utm_term=jagsluasl&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Branded&gclid=CjwKEAiAk7O0BRD9_Ka2w_PhwSkSJAAmKswxLje9kA_GtgWXIcZm43INOCnEDBipKCiyzLkvp7SrNxoCafTw_wcB
ANP
Anyone have a curling wand they recommend? I’ve always used hot rollers, but just got my hair cut short and my stylist recommended a wand for when I want to scrunch my hair and wear it curly. They look pretty cool but I have no curling iron or wand experience — just the aforementioned hot rollers and a flatiron. Looking for something inexpensive and would appreciate all input! I think I need one with a bigger barrel for the waves I’m looking for, too.
Sydney Bristow
I got the larger barrel Reminton Pearl one on my sister’s recommendation and I love it. She got it at Target and I found mine on Amazon. It had the pink barrel.
I looked up tutorials on YouTube and it didn’t take too long to get the hang of it.
Anonymous
I have a Jose Eber 25mm, I ordered it from Amazon for like $40 (clearance color… it’s like giraffe and offensive, but nobody ever sees it, so I don’t care). Lots of videos online. Also check pinterest – I recently saw some graphics showing the different types of curls you get from different types of wands.
espresso bean
There are also ways to use a regular curling iron as a wand. Check out the Small Things Blog for video tutorials. She sometimes uses a potholder oven-type glove to help from burning her hands.
Regardless of what you end up with, I’ve always been really happy with Hot Tools products. They last forever!
It's Me Again...
Sedu Clipless Wand! Love it.
Jen
I don’t understand–“scrunching” is something you do with a diffuser and some hair product, and it doesn’t require a wand. Try getting a cup-like diffuser with prong or teeth in it if you’re going to be scrunching.
Veronica Mars
I have a friend problem that I’d like some outside perspective on. One of my good friends is leaving the country for two years to volunteer abroad. Since she’s volunteering, she doesn’t have a ton of cash right now, and she doesn’t have a car. I traveled to see her twice over the last four months (one time I flew to the city where she was doing training, and the other time I took a day off of work and drove her to my apartment). We had plans for this weekend, but she called to cancel because it’s also her brother’s last weekend home before he goes back to college, and he was upset that she was spending it with me–but she LIVES with him! Am I right to be miffed? I didn’t take off work this time, but it still makes me feel like she’s not willing to make me as much of a priority in the way that I have done for her.
AMB
I’m sure that in preparation for leaving the country her head is all over the place and she’s trying to get time in with as many people as possible before her departure. Plus. it is a family thing. That being said, I hate when people cancel on me. I think you’re entitled to be miffed, but don’t let it ruin finding time to spend together if that’s important to YOU.
Veronica Mars
It is important to me, but I don’t know if I can just suck it up and reschedule without feeling resentment that I was pushed to the back burner.
Anonymous
Girl I hear you but you do come second to her brother. And that’s okay. Don’t let your bruised ego damage a good friendship.
Veronica Mars
I totally understand that family is a priority. But she lives with her brother, sees him all the time, and he basically just threw a hissy fit because she would be gone for one day. They easily could’ve done something special on Friday, or had all Sunday afternoon to plan something fun. It’s not like I was monopolizing the whole weekend. And they both are on break, so there’s no reason they couldn’t have done something today or tomorrow as well, for that matter.
Anonymous
I completely get it, but just let it go
Veronica Mars
I know. I was pretty steamed about it but I think I’ve simmered down enough to be rational. My annoyance is probably also getting amplified because I’m really sad she’ll be leaving so for long.
espresso bean
I would feel the same way, more about the last-minute cancellation than the unequal levels of effort. When I’ve felt this way about friendships, I take a step back and see if the friend will meet me more than halfway. In this case, you don’t have much time left with her in the country, so maybe swallow your pride and accommodate her one last time if there’s another opportunity to see her before she goes, but only if you think you’ll be able to enjoy yourself and not feel too much resentment.
Care
She lives with him, so this might not be the case, but some people have such dramatic family relationships that it is easier to just acquiesce to family’s wishes than deal with the fallout. It could be relationship-management and not that you aren’t as much of a priority. Also, if she lives with him and he’s about to go back to college, does that mean she also lives with her parents? I can’t ever get out of my mom’s demands about family time in a situation like that (no matter how hard I try).
Be miffed, but don’t think that you aren’t also important to her.
Veronica Mars
You hit the nail on the head. This is exactly what’s going on. Basically, whoever throws the biggest fuss gets the most of her time (extended family members have insisted that she stay with them for 3-4 days, etc).
Care
I have a friend like this and have literally started negotiating with her mom in advance for time when she’s in town. It actually works well. I also sometimes just join the family for their family things (her visits are short and time is precious to us all), though it helps that I’ve known them for years.
Anon
So….be mad at her family, not your friend. Easy to say “woman up, stand up to your family” but when one has spent her whole life with that dynamic it’s not that easy. I rather feel sorry for her.
AMB
I’m in a job quandry – I’ve had informal discussions with two different people about jobs within my large organization. One is more in line with my existing skill set, directly supporting an executive. However, it would be covering a one year maternity leave and while I am in consideration for it, it is not a sure thing at this point. The other would be more of a departure from my current role, but could let me work in a small, dynamic group, closer to a field I am passionate about, and on a permanent basis. It would be more of a stretch for me though. I’m not sure how many people were interviewed, but I think if I said I wanted it I would get it. I would have to express interest in it before the decision is made around the first though, so I’m afraid of potentially missing out on that opportunity. Pay would be the same in either position. Any thoughts? TLDR – do I gamble on a less certain, but easier job switch or roll the dice on something more of a stretch?
Melissa
Am I missing the quandary? You describe one job as easy and unstable and the other as dynamic, in an area you’re passionate about, and permanent. What’s holding you back from jumping at the second job? You seem confident that they will hire you for the position if you express an interest, so they clearly think you have the skills to do the job.
Veronica Mars
+1 Agree.
Meg March
+1!
Marie
BF has a job interview this morning for a position he really wants. He’s been job hunting since he moved here in July. He puts so much pressure on himself and I feel so nervous for him. Please send good wishes!
betsy bee sb
Sending good wishes your way!!! Good luck. The job search process is so daunting on everyone. The perfect position will come along and maybe this is the one!!!
Fail
All these budget posts – thought I’d share something to make you all feel better about your spending habits. I just downloaded Mint and, apparently I spent $650 last month on taxis. On taxis! Because I am lazy as can be. That is approx 15% of my take-home pay. Ouch.
Also fail
I think i can top this.
Yesterday’s discussions inspired me to reevaluate my student loan payoff plan. I currently have ~ 45K remaining of law school loans, and my plan is to pay them off by September 2016.
Out of curiosity, I added up my total loan amounts (because i was surprised by all the people saying they had 200K from law school). I was pretty sure I had 160-170K (didnt know exactly).
Um so it turns out I had 201K….
Sad trombone moment for my personal financial savvy! On the plus side, they’re almost gone and my savings and retirement look good, buy YEESH how did i not know that?!?!
ITDS
Was it cold where you are? No-one likes to walk home or wait for a bus in the cold.
Midwest Mama
Someone mentioned a dry shampoo recently that actually removes sweat/oil…which one was it? I’m trying to wash my hair less often, but I workout and sweat a lot, so I’m looking into a good dry shampoo. Or is a cleansing conditioner a better option? I feel gross without shampooing my hair because it gets so sweaty, but I’m also tired of my color fading so fast that I have to get my grays covered every 6 weeks at least.
espresso bean
Not sure which dry shampoo was recommended, but I’m a big fan of Batiste and Psst. I find them both really effective. Batiste comes in more scents and has cuter packaging, but they’re both pretty cheap and easily available in drugstores/Target.
What color is your hair? Batiste, and many other brands, have dry shampoos with a hint of color that might help with the grays.
Runner 5
I find the COLAB one to be excellent. I worked out this morning but you wouldn’t know, to look at my hair.
Runner 5
(Anyone know why I’m in moderation for that?)
KT
I use Pssst in between washes (I have a deep dye job that tends to fade quickly, so even a cleansing conditioner takes out a lot of color; I only was my hair twice a week) and it makes my hair look really voluminous too.
Anonymous
Fair wedding gift question? There doesn’t seem to be a straight answer to this, so looking for anecdata.
Expensive travel/stateside destination wedding (think, 3 time zones for most attendees). Have already sunk flight + rental + hotel, and helped with the local bridal shower. Due to scheduling and travel, cannot attend second bridal shower or bachelorette (I was invited to both, to give you an idea of my proximity to the couple.)
Looking at gift for me + my plus one, who is friendly with but not close to the bride/groom.
They have one of those registries that is basically cash – sign up for a share of a stand mixer! or a vitamix! or buy us an enamel cast iron pan! Is 2/10 of a $600 blender a good gift? I don’t know if the “shares” are intended to be a gift for one person or what. The original plan was to split said blender with one of my friends who is a bridesmaid, back when we thought she was registering for the refurbished, $300 one.
Anonymous
For what its worth my husband and I usually spend $100 on wedding gifts no matter who/what. So I think 120$ is plenty…
Anonymous
my $0.02, if you are that good a friend, and involved in all parts of the weddings, she won’t really care what kind of a gift you give her. Do what you can afford financially, and don’t worry about it.
Now, I personally always prefer to buy ‘full’ present rather than shares, so I’d buy something smaller but cheaper, but that’s just me!
Anonymous
I’d just write a check for $125 and call it a day.
Anonymous
I give everyone a $100 check. Cash is what they truly want.
Summerstorm
Traditionally, the gift should cover the cost of your seat at the wedding. I’ve now switched over to giving cash almost exclusively.
Anonymous
I know, just, how the heck do you even know how much your seat costs?
anonymama
I know in some cultures this is traditional, but I personally find it kind of appalling… like, do people actually give nicer gifts to their friends who have more expensive weddings? Does that mean you generally end up spending more money on people who are wealthier and/or have wealthier parents? That just seems messed up. And as a host of a wedding, I would feel awful if people thought they had to spend more on a wedding gift just because I’d picked a fancier venue, or chose the nicer wine. And also would feel awful if people were trying to evaluate the cost per person of my wedding, instead of enjoying being there. And then are you disappointed if you give a cash gift expecting filet mignon and get rubber chicken instead?
Anonymous
This “rule” has been widely debunked. There is absolutely no obligation to give a fancier gift because the bride went nuts on the centerpieces, nor should you give less to a bride on a budget because you’re eating chicken instead of sushi. The latter bride may actually be in a situation where a bigger gift would mean more–now, I’m not saying gifting needs to be a redistribution technique but it makes no sense to give *less* to the latter.
Allison
I know we had a whole thread on resolutions yesterday but, stupid me, I didn’t think of this until much later:
If you’re looking to get active, get a Fitbit! Seriously, the web and mobile app that it comes with is an awesome motivator because it lets you earn badges and compete with other people with Fitbits. I was already active when I was given one through work, but it’s motivated me to be even more active. You don’t even need one of the fancy wrist ones that track your sleep and heart rate unless it’s important to you, the little clip-on One is sufficient for most people.
Also, if other people here have Fitbits, maybe we should get a group going.
Sydney Bristow
I got a Fitbit about a month ago and really like it. It’s nice to track everything all in one place. I find myself wandering around my apartment at night so I can reach my step goals, which is definitely progress from laying on the couch!
lucy stone
We have a very under-used group, please join! https://www.fitbit.com/group/222FHH
Allison
WOOHOOO!
Ahem, I mean, that is delightful information, I shall be sure to join the group at my earliest convenience.
Allison
Doesn’t look like I can join the group. that makes me a sad panda.
SA
I just ordered one today!
Petunia
Hive –
Long time reader, occasional poster. I’m having lunch today with one of my Board members and his daughter, who is a sophomore in college. The board member asked me to have lunch to give her career advice. She is a marketing and communications manager. I’m trying to make sure I have a good list of advice to share, and would welcome any of your suggestions! Thanks!
Runner 5
I’m just about to finish university this summer and I have a job lined up to go into. My biggest pieces of advice would be to be pragmatic, and to think hard about what’s really important to you.
I could have applied for all sorts of high flying things if I wanted to – Big Law, for example, would be a path open to me if I wanted to go that way. Instead I’ve taken a step back and realised that what’s really important to me is having a place of my own and enjoying life, so I’m headed down a financial services track, in a field that, although it has career progression opportunities, isn’t known for big bucks – but also is known to offer a good work/life balance.
bridget
Intern during the summer, if possible.
Don’t go to grad school until you have worked for a bit, and there is a straight line between the job you know you will have and the degree you are getting.
“Networking” isn’t about going to dorky events. About 90% of the networking I’ve done in my adult life has been through non-work activities. Show up on time, work hard, show that you’re smart and kind, and people will put you in touch with their friends.
I am very protective of my group of friends (which includes some absurdly successful individuals) and I have to really trust someone on many levels (personally and professionally) before even mentioning that a personal friend does (blank).