ByElizabeth Hours Updated
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Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Essential Pullover

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A woman wearing a blue-green top and white pants

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

A slouchy sweater is one of my go-tos for comfy office wear these days. Somehow, this short-sleeved sweater from The Reset manages to be both oversized and perfectly fitted, fulfilling all my lifelong sweater dreams.

This bluish-green “sea” color caught my eye, but it also comes in seven other colors, including black and white.

The sweater is $188 at The Reset and comes in sizes XS-XL.

Sales of note for 3/15/25:

  • Nordstrom – Spring sale, up to 50% off
  • Ann Taylor – 40% off everything + free shipping
  • Banana Republic Factory – 40% off everything + extra 20% off
  • Eloquii – 50% off select styles + extra 50% off sale
  • J.Crew – Extra 30% off women's styles + spring break styles on sale
  • J.Crew Factory – 40% off everything + extra 20% off 3 styles + 50% off clearance
  • M.M.LaFleur – Friends and family sale, 20% off with code; use code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – 40% off 1 item + 30% off everything else (includes markdowns, already 25% off)

225 Comments

  1. Thank you for the advice about supporting my loved one with stage 4 cancer with questions about disability and insurance. I went with her to her oncology appointment and asked to talk to the social worker who was extremely helpful. The social worker referred us to Triage Cancer and they look to have a lot of info on these topics. https://triagecancer.org/ Passing it along in case it can help someone else. Thank you again for the thoughts and recommendations. I think we’re headed in the right direction.

    1. Thanks — finding myself in this boat right now for a parent. Sudden diagnosis out of nowhere this summer.

  2. Yesterday’s thread on what percentage of your clothes are secondhand got me thinking – what are some frugal practices you do that are really easy but may not be that common? One that comes to mind for me is using online holds at my library – not just the Libby app for digital books, but the online library to place holds for physical books. My city’s librar app allows me to browse the entire catalog and have my chosen books delivered to my local branch – a lot of books are available only in physical copy and not ebook, so it saves me from buying those titles I’m really interested in that I can’t get on Libby.

    1. At my office most people buy lunch. I can’t afford that, so I’m the outlier who is packing a lunch every single day.

      1. I also bring my lunch every day, which I find to be a significant savings and health boost.

        1. They feed us 2x a week to lure people back and there is so much leftover that they have started giving us take-away containers so that the rest doesn’t go to waste. Bonus win (while it lasts).

      2. When I was in the office, I almost never bought lunch not just because of the price, but because it took so much more time to order and obtain. I had an incentive to make a lunch as quick as possible so I could leave earlier and still bill my 8 hours to clients. I found that making the frugal choice gave me my time back in addition to my money.

    2. I feel like the magic is in the big numbers. So: pay yourself first (save for retirement). If you want to save for a house, and you have student loans, don’t also have a car payment. Drive that beater car into the ground (no matter what: keep a car going as long as you can if you have any other debt to pay off or need to save for a big purchase). If you’re not maxing out your retirement or at least putting enough in to get any employer match, don’t go spending big b/c if you can’t afford to save for retirement, you can’t afford X (living with no roommate, buying a car that requires a car payment, etc., etc.).

      To avoid crappy takeout: try to have things at home you can easily eat for dinner, especially if you arrive home too tired to cook. Often, I don’t need to love a meal, I just need to rescue my plummeting energy level at the end of the day (yogurt, even ice cream, leftover rice with cheese, chips & dip, crackers & cheese). That $10 you save is gold.

      2. I agree. I don’t think skipping lattes and whatnot matters nearly as much as keeping big expenses low.
        The keys for us have been buying way less house than we could afford (to be fair, living in a very LCOL area made this is easier) and driving our cars forever.

        1. Yes, we bought a house that was 100K less than what we were told we could afford. I am keeping my 10 year old car until it starts costing me money in repairs. I dye my own roots every other time at the salon.

          2. It does, absolutely. But it has hard to save your way to $600 less in your pocket each month b/c you got a 1-BR and not a studio. $600 to your student loans or 401K is what makes such a huge difference to your future self.

          3. The thing about the small stuff is that people who are frugal or struggling aren’t spending money on that stuff to begin with, so they can’t cut it out. When I was straight out of college and working two jobs to make ends meet, I was not spending $6.85 on a latte or $14 on a salad.

      3. I think that housing is such a HUGE expense — shared housing is $$$ to you. Ditto, living at home as an adult, which is very much not cool but let me afford to go to grad school and save up for an eventual move to my now-home city (fronting first month rent, last month rent is expensive to save for if you are also paying rent). If you can do either for just a year or two, it frees up money to pay student loans, etc.

      4. Yeah this is us. Big focus on savings and investment and keeping things like cars as long as possible.

        But the small stuff adds up.

        My kids in their peer group think nothing of door dashing meals – it’s shockingly expensive to do that and it’s not just the fees and tip – the menu prices on door dash and companies like that are often significantly higher than just going to the restaurant. You really do have to know where all the pennies are going too, especially when you’re a broke student (me talking to my kids here.)

        1. We also point out what a rip-off it is to restaurants, which are often small businesses on tiny margins. I’m not sure that DD is good to its workers (or 1099 people, who we hope are adequately insured for when they have accidents on the job, etc.). There are a lot of economically painful externalities that IMO make the meal not taste very good.

          But agreed that I’m shocked how teens use it. a

          1. I live in a fairly small town and was at the local grocery store after 7pm last week; the woman behind me in line was holding store-brand ice cream and a liter of coke. She remarked to me that it wasn’t her choice, which I thought was odd. As I finished loading my groceries, the woman said to the cashier “this is a Door Dash” and I was flabbergasted that someone would pay the fees and extra cost for someone else to go get them ice cream and soda.

          2. Eh, I wouldn’t normally Doordash a pint of ice cream, but it’s useful when you’re sick. If you have Covid you shouldn’t go out in public, and even if it’s not Covid you can still feel kind of crappy and not want to get out of bed.

            It seems to be an unpopular opinion, but we use Doordash a lot for dinners – probably 2-3 times per week. In our area the prices in the app are pretty comparable to store prices and we have free Dashpass through our credit cards so we don’t pay much in the way of fees. We tip generously, but we would tip at a restaurant too. I don’t think it costs appreciably more than a meal at a restaurant does for us.

          3. I’m 99% sure my neighbors have never turned their stove on. They get delivery at least 2x, sometimes 3x/day. I’ve had more interactions with their delivery people than with them in the few years they’ve lived here. I can’t imagine how much they must spend on food delivery, Target, Amazon, lawn service, etc. They have 2 cars and hardly ever leave the house.
            It is very odd to me – this is not a well-off neighborhood.

          4. Please continue to tip generously. My daughters boyfriend is a very broke college student (full financial aid) and door dashes between jobs. He makes $1-$2 from the company per delivery so if he doesn’t get tipped, he actually loses money after gas and insurance. And he doesn’t get tipped pretty frequently.

            You can see the tip, sometimes, before you accept a job, but if you don’t accept the orders they send you, they stop sending orders.

        2. There was an anonymous survey and something like 40% of Uber eats delivery people admitted to eating a French fry or something out of the food they were about to deliver. That turned me off from ever using it.

          1. Not getting your drink or side is really common. The driver eats or drinks it on the way. The app then the restaurant refund it. The driver doesn’t care.

      5. Driving old cars has pros and cons. My 11 year old car has 165K miles, and I’m so sad to need to buy a new one. I’ve put about $5K in repairs into it this year, and it just doesn’t make sense to keep fixing it. Not looking forward to a car payment.

        1. It definitely depends on the car. We just sold a 25 year old Toyota, and we put ~$2k into it nearly 15 years ago, but otherwise have done nothing except routine maintenance. I think Toyota is one of the best brands to buy if you want your cars to last 20 years without becoming money pits.

          1. Never had a Toyota! That sounds great. I’m the OP with the 2012 165K Kia, which was great until many pricy repairs and AAA tows in the last year and a half. I would buy another Kia for sure.

            My DH and I took our 2012 Ford Fusion with 135K miles off the road over the summer because it also became a money pit. It needed a new transmission (!!!) at 80K…luckily that was covered under the extended warranty we purchased, saving $3800. Since then, I’ve spent a ton on that car, and about $2500 this year alone. It needed another thousand dollar repair to be safely driveable, so we took it off the road and want to sell it, which is looking increasingly unlikely. KBB says its worth less than $2K…I had heard the bad rep that Ford gets, and this car definitely has been a nightmare.

    3. Forgo a car, or reducing your number of cars. Not having a car payment, car insurance, gas and registration is a substantial amount of money I’m not spending.

      1. When I worked in DC, I got free transit passes in my benefits. Kept my old beater car (let go of the collision coverage and kept only liability) just to go to Giant and to visit family.

        1. Yeah, my car is 20 years old, so I only have liability insurance on it. Parking is. PITA so I don’t even use it for groceries, just to visit family and go to the beach

    4. I use a menstrual cup and have since 2009, so a fairly early adopter. This has saved me probably a thousand at this point.

      2. I bought lighter flow period underwear from knix. I am post menopausal and was using a panty liner daily. Got rid of that expense, but more important to me, the garbage.

        I also use a nasal saline spray – bought a neti rinse so I am just buying the saline packs and using boiled water once it has cooled. Again, a savings, but I was also focused on the garbage.

    5. Walmart grocery delivery. Walmart is routinely a third less than Publix, of which I was once a huge fan. Delivery keeps me from making impulse purchases, which balances out the cost of the tip. (Delivery itself is free with a Walmart+ membership.)
      I’ve written on here before about an alternative rate plan with my power company that dropped my power bills from over $700 to under $300. (I kept my thermostat at 75 in summer-no one was sweating for this, but I have no problems telling the family to put on fleece when they get home in winter).
      I also bring my lunch most days.
      I am ruthless about cancelling monthly subscriptions. Nothing is too small to be cut.
      I shop my cell phone plans at least once a year.

      1. It’s a great idea to shop your cell phone plans and also your Wi-Fi. My husband is pretty ruthless about looking for new subscriber deals for Wi-Fi and we just switch back-and-forth between companies when the deal is good. I have several friends who have very strong loyalty to these types of companies and to banks offering extremely low interest rates, but get rid of that loyalty because it is not helping you save!!

        1. For me it’s not about “loyalty,” (I feel no loyalty to Comcast, I promise you) but there are so many startup fees associated with new accounts that I’m not convinced switching regularly makes sense even if you can get your monthly payment to go down a bit.

          1. I hated Comcast but kept them for a long time before I discovered T Mobile. It cost me nothing to switch, and I saved around $100/month. My service is better, to boot. T Mobile probably is not available or does not work everywhere, but my bill is exactly $50/month with no contract. Obviously this is very region-specific, but I am chiming in because I really, really disliked Comcast.

          2. Yep, you have to do your research, but when you find a “new customer deal” with no start-up fee and a great monthly rate, it’s very satisfying. It’s too bad that there is such a lack of competition in so many places, though.

        2. Yes to wi-fi! I pay $50/month now and am so embarrassed to look back at the years that I paid more. I want that money back!

        3. There are also large parts of the country where you have no choice. If you want high speed internet in my city, you have exactly one choice and you pay a correspondingly high price.

          1. Just wanted to add, I’m not trying to be that person, I’m just annoyed about the lack of competition. This whole capitalism thing doesn’t work very well if there aren’t any options to choose between!

          2. It also pays to consider your needs, vs what the internet says you need. I work from home, take classes, stream and do everything else anyone does…. I have a cheap, local provider and it’s DSL.
            The vast majority of us do not need gigaubersuberbit internet or whatever expensive plan is the hot thing at the moment.

          3. This. When you live rurally your choices are so limited. My dad lives in an area that just got access to high speed internet in the last 2 years. Let that sink in. Before this, the only option was mobile hotspot. This new option, while great to have, costs well over $100/mo.

          4. Comcast actually makes municipal 10 year contracts with cities in my state. We have no competition to choose from!

      2. We do free grocery pickup (order online, but go to the store to get it). That eliminates impulse purchases, but we don’t have to pay a delivery fee or a membership that includes free delivery.

        1. We do pickup most of the time but delivery comes in handy when we’re extra-busy.

      3. I use Boost mobile and i shudder thinking how much more I’d spend with one of the major carriers!

    6. This is likely a holdover from my years in NYC – I was a law student/fresh out of law school with a public interest job. I saved for retirement monthly, brought my lunch to work daily, etc. but I didn’t have enough money or space to justify the spend for buying various perishable food items in bulk and freezing them. I have a family member (lives alone) who buys and freezes perishables regularly and I wonder how many times they actually extract and use the 50 frozen tortillas, multiple boxes of cookies, etc. they’ve purchased, and if said items even taste good after sitting in a freezer for 6+ months.

      Now that I am married with kids – our groceries are what we need for the week (based on a meal plan/template) and we replenish staples. The freezer has the odd leftovers and things we actually use vs. being crammed with junk that inevitably gets thrown out.

      (Caveat that I do think buying things like toilet paper, paper towels, nuts, etc. in bulk is a huge savings – I couldn’t afford it then, but do it now).

      1. My solution for this is to make a point of cooking down my freezer at the start of hurricane season. I use up what’s been in the freezer for a while and it’s less to toss if there’s an extended outage.

        1. +1. In May, I start making lists of what’s in the freezer and forbidding DH from buying any more chicken from Costco.

      2. Yeah, we went to Costco this weekend and I just don’t know if it makes sense for a family of 3, with limited storage space, and a preference for home cooked meals? We don’t drink soda, my husband is veggie so no meat purchases, etc, our loo roll is delivered in one big big box every 6 months from an ethical producer.

        2. I guess as a counter point we are a family of 3 and I find Costco worth it, but we do a lot of advanced planning. And I’m a vegetarian. We eat home cooked/prepared meals for breakfasts 6 days, lunch 7 days and dinner 5 days.

          I buy staples there – flour, butter, chicken stock, beans, coconut milk, vegetable shortening, beans, rice, pasta, pasta sauce, peanut butter, frozen fruit, oatmeal, etc. We also buy toiletries (shampoo, soap), paper products (toilet paper, paper towels), etc. We only go 3-4x a year but the savings are large.

          I do live in NYC so my grocery prices are high to begin with which may be why it’s so valuable to us.

      3. I save a lot of money with the small upright freezer for the garage that I bought during the pandemic when one never knew what was going to be in stock at the grocery store. I’m work from home and I batch cook on the weekend. I freeze one portion meals that microwave or reheat well. Instant pot curries and chilis, fried rice, enchilada casserole, and soups e.g. I also travel a lot and this stockpile of very easy to hand but homemade and healthy meals saves me and my husband from getting take out when we’re too tired or too busy, cuts down on food waste since it’s easier to shop for three bulk meals instead of a bunch of individual ones (especially lunches) and for my husband, they are portable to work and stops him from getting a sub, etc. on campus. So I don’t buy bulk and freeze it, I make meals and freeze them and they always get used!

        1. I’m the Anon at 10:19 – I should also be clear and this is a ME thing – I don’t like the way most freezer meals taste, and if I don’t like it, I won’t eat it (= waste of time and money). I blame this on my love of textures when I eat. I also don’t have time to batch cook in this season of life, so maybe I’ll change my tune at some point. I cook what we need for the week. I know folks say it takes the same amount of time, but maybe I’m just a slower chopper or something because I don’t see that.

          Our house came with a deep freeze and fridge in the garage. We barely use the deep freeze, and the fridge is mostly used for beer/cold drinks, which is great when we have company.

      4. I use my freezer for quality more than savings. I get grassfed beef, bones for stock, line caught fish that are frozen at peak quality. These are items my local shops don’t stock, so my freezer gives me ability to buy higher quality.

        I use these things up, and then replenish every few months.

        Other items for the freezer are foraged and home grown.

    7. I do a lot of things. For context, DH and I are both turning 40 this year. We have 3 kids. Our HHI is $300k, we live in a fairly expensive suburb of an expensive city. We work about 50 hours/week between the two of us- he leaned way out, I consult. We have a net worth of just shy of $2M including about $1M for retirement. We have 3 masters degrees between us, plus undergrad degrees from a very expensive SLAC. I had $50k of ugrad loans; he took out $50k for grad school.

      First, and foremost, we BOTH saved from retirement starting the day we graduated college. We also made choices about grad school with these future in mind: I worked at a university right out of ugrad and did my masters there because it was cheap (I got fruition fully reimbursed but it was taxed so my masters ended up costing about $25k vs $100k and i bankrolled it by working a second job- hoo that was a lot!). He did a joint MS/MBA program is the city we already lived in, which came with a big merit scholarship and the ability to do some part time work with his company while going to school full time.

      The entire time I was in grad school and he was in grad school, we put every spare dollar into savings- specifically, roth IRAs and roth 401ks since our HHI was low at the time and our employers offered the roth option.

      Beyond that, we “pay ourselves first”- money from work goes into dedicated accounts (mortgage loan account, retirement, 529s, long term savings) via direct deposit. Everything else goes into checking (family account and a smaller amount into each of our “fun money” accounts) and can be spent however we want. We budget DH’s bonus to be a true bonus- hot tub, bathroom reno, big vacation- none of that is booked until we know what the bonus will be. If we want to do more than we have money in checking for, we find other income if needed (DH did some side work to pay for a project car he wanted; I took on a side consulting gig to pay for a vacation we wanted when the bonus wasn’t as planned).

      We drive cars for a long time. Currently mine is a 2020 family car and his is a 2010 SUV we’ve had since we bought it preowned in 2013.

      Once the kids ages out of daycare we diverted the cash directly into their 529s.

      Our kids play a LOT of sports and our family skis. I think every piece of equipment they have other than mouthguards, bike helmets, ski helmets and the occasional pair of cleats or dance shoes or ski boots in a side I don’t have on hand. I buy their ski jackets, snow boots and bibs secondhand or from friends and resell when they outgrow it. This is both frugal and honestly environmental.

      1. DH and I just turned 40 this year, 2 kids, HHI is ~$600K (DH is in BigLaw), MCOL city turning HCOL. We didn’t meet until after our respective grad schools, so I brought in six figures of debt to the relationship which we paid off before our first kid was born. Our kids are young – we just got one out of the preschool/daycare years and into public school, and we a chunk of what we used to pay for tuition to 529. We both saved as soon as we started working (went straight through to law school from undergrad).

        We don’t own our house outright (bought in 2020) so while we have a lot in our various accounts, our net worth isn’t probably at $1M. :) My car is a 2013 and DH’s is a 2016, no plans to upgrade anytime soon. We didn’t drive often when we purchased the cars, and now we drive daily but have a small footprint, so as a result, we haven’t racked up miles on them – I have ~70K on my car, 10 years in!

        I also think my situation is not the norm for most millennials, only select, fortunate elder millennials. The former had timing different than ours by years, and were impacted even more by the various social/econ crises that were taking place while they finished school, entered workforce, etc., so they have not been able to build this type of financial security. DH and I always talk about how we lucked out in many ways.

        Add on to that many are single income households, and COL continues to rise. I see more and more millennials either moving back in with family or buying homes to live multi-generationally, and not just for elder care or childcare, but financial reasons. One of my BFFs, single, no kids, my age, great career, is moving back into her parents house for the short-term because she travels often for work, has an upcoming medical procedure, and a slightly bigger apartment in our “MCOL” city in her current neighborhood would have been $1000/more a month, totaling at about $3000+/month.

    8. I focused on the bigger costs. When apartment hunting, I chose a 1 BR in a suburb of my nearby city rather than a studio or 1BR in the heart of the city ($300-600 monthly cheaper depending on which “cool” neighborhood you compare to). I was privileged to buy my first car from my parents (so it wasn’t free, but I did save money compared to buying the same age/type of car from a dealership) and am still driving it 7 years later, will probably drive it for 3-4 more. I put $50-$100 month into a HYSA to save up for the next car purchase to minimize a future payment. I also have automated transfers to my 401(k), Roth IRA, a savings account for my health needs, and a brokerage account, so I don’t feel stressed about monitoring every dollar I spend. Sometimes, I overspend in one budget category in a month and underspend in another. This probably means I need to revisit my budget, but I honestly haven’t bothered because it’s not a big deal financially. By the time money hits my checking account, I’ve already taken out 30-40% for savings, so it’s money that I’m “allowed” to spend. I usually don’t spend everything I’m “allowed” to per my budget, so my checking account balance increases every month and once it’s above a certain threshold, I invest the extra I’ve accumulated. This system may not work for everyone, but my family experienced poverty when I was a kid, so this helps me strike a balance between reasonable frugality and not stressing about every dollar.

      Also, I have some health issues that make it hard to cook and make my weight fluctuate, so I definitely spend more than I’d like to on clothing and groceries/take-out, but these expenses are nowhere near the savings I get from having cheaper rent and no car payment. I also have considered getting a roommate again because my housing costs would easily decrease another few hundred dollars, but I just can’t bring myself to share my space again with anyone other than a partner or family. If my current good fortune took a turn for the worst, this would likely be one of the first steps I’d take.

    9. I have occasionally done no spend months. Obviously I pay my bills and buy things I have to buy (gas, groceries), but I avoid all non-necessities (clothes, food other than groceries, etc). It’s amazing how much lower my credit card bill is when I do it!

      I have not personally done a pantry/freezer clean out month, but I’m thinking about it. If I could limit my food spending to fresh produce and a small amount of dairy while eating a bunch of the meat/fish/pasta/rice/baking supplies/cereal/frozen fruit I’ve stored up in my pantry and freezer, I would also save a lot of money. It would be even cheaper if I shopped at Aldi, where those items are especially cheap.

      I also make frequent use of my local Buy Nothing group on Facebook. So far I’ve gotten a string trimmer, several kitchen utensils/pots/pans, a side table for my living room, a bike pump, many clothing items, books, art, and other miscellaneous things. And I’ve been able to give away a lot, too! It’s a great way to recycle useful things within the community.

      I am also a fan of the library and have made a big dent in my TBR list by getting books delivered to my local branch!

      I’m always looking for deals on things too: Perks at Work gives me 15% off my cell phone bill each month, I use Rakuten and Ibotta for cash back on purchases, I use my grocery store app for digital coupons and other discounts, etc. $5-10 here and there isn’t a lot each time, but it does add up.

      I agree with others, though, that the big ticket items are where it’s at. I own one paid off car and plan to keep it until it dies. I shop for new car insurance every 1-2 years (usually saves $100/year), and plan to update my homeowner’s insurance this year as well. But I also won’t nickel and dime myself: I’m happy to pile the blankets on my bed at night but I run cold and keep my heat at 72 during the daytime in the winter. It’s not worth the $10/month savings to me to shiver all day.

      1. Yes! I often do a no-spend January and it’s crazy how much more I save when the default is just not buying.

      2. I spend down the freezer & cubbies that last week if each month, only buying bare necessities like 1/2 & 1/2 bc coffee is a priority:)

        1. Oh that’s a good way to do it. A little less extreme and perhaps easier on the planning. Maybe I’ll try it next week! Thanks for the idea.

    10. I bring everything from home: coffee, snacks, lunches.
      I buy the majority of things second hand.
      I use white vinegar and baking soda for the majority of household cleaning.
      I walk a lot. If something is within a half-hour’s walking distance I will walk there. I also cycle quite a bit.
      I do not give myself wiggle room in my budget. The $$ assigned to clothes, for example, is the only money available for buying, tailoring, or drycleaning clothes until next pay. It forces me to prioritize and plan.
      I take care of my clothes, including mending them and strictly following the care labels.
      I use the library a lot. I’ve been doing the online hold thing for at least 15 years.

      1. Hard no to Dave.

        I quite like zero sum budgeting and think snowballing can make sense, but I get the creeps from that brand.

      2. Absolutely 100% HARD no. Dave Ramsey is an extremely problematic person. He may have some good ideas but he also has many outdated views which actually make things harder financially then necessary. His company is extremely problematic and the way he runs his business is highly unethical imo.

      3. I think schools should teach more about money and financial literacy for sure, but agree with a hard pass to Dave. In addition to the issues I have with him personally, his whole system is Christian-centric, so I think it would be a separation of church and state problem, at least in public schools.

      4. Yay for teaching financial literacy, how to do a budget or understanding loan contracts and repayment plans.
        Weird to think we can’t do better than Dave Ramsey…

    12. We sort of stick out amongst our peers. Despite being in the top 5% of income earners in Canada, we don’t look it. We have a whack of kids. We drive a single, decade old vehicle and I won’t buy a second car. We carpool and bike commute, occasionally public transportation (which is terrible in our city). We do all of our own house maintenance, lawn care, cleaning, and my husband even changes our tires. We are even building new kitchen cabinet doors one by one. I cloth diaper and my kids wear 99% hand me downs. I cook virtually everything from scratch, including 75% of our bread, yoghurt etc. We mostly bring lunch to work.

      And for the big stuff, we accelerate payments on our mortgage (and did as well on our summer place before it was paid off), and as each kid was born, and with each pay increase I divert a certain amount to savings so we sort of avoid some life style creep and we don’t actually feel much better off. We use Au Pairs as childcare which is cheaper than a nanny but a lot more emotional and supervisory labour and cheaper than daycare (plus way easier for work).

      1. Respectfully, if you own a summer place and us an au pair, you definitely “look it”.

        2. “Respectfully”, as said above, the Au Pair is the cheapest childcare option. I have gotten jumped on here before about the Au Pair and I just don’t get. I wonder if there is some kind of status thing in the US or the numbers are just vastly different but we do it because it’s the cheapest option by a decent margin. It’s definitely not an expensive thing that makes one “rich”. And if you saw either of our houses (or the car) you might agree with my original statement. Both are extremely shabby by my peers standards (which I am frequently told when people see them and ask why we don’t know “just renovate”). All of my colleagues are two car families and the vast majority drive two luxury vehicles. And they own homes in our primary city worth more than ours that are newly renovated with new kitchens and bathrooms and finished basements. Meanwhile, we have none of that and our summer place was an old farm house with the roof falling in. The kitchen floor there is painted plywood subfloor. Our two properties together are less than most of our peers have spent on one. So, no we don’t brief especially well off by my own evaluation or by the evaluation of countless people who tell us we are confusing/embarrassing/silly because we don’t have granite, a snow removal service, or a BMW like everyone we know.

          1. Follow up question: do most Americans think only rich people have a second, recreational/seasonal property? It’s extremely common where I come from on the east coast of Canada to have “camp” or place on the water but they are very rustic and not at all fancy. Many blue collar families have them. I have a friend in A Wisconsin who is just 30. Not university educated and works in accounting, husband does seasonal work like snow removal. They have a place like this so I thought it was like at home. But maybe not based on the above comments.

          3. Yeah, I think having a second property is generally seen as more of a rich person thing in the US. We have a bunch of Canadian-American friends and it definitely seems more common there. That’s not to say everyone who owns a second home in the US is mega rich (people get homes through their parents passing away, frugal people who really want one can save up for it, etc.) but I think it’s perceived as much more of a status symbol here.

            Speaking strictly for myself as someone who considers myself upper middle class bordering on rich, we’ve never really considered a second home, because the places we could afford to buy that are in driving distance (small Midwest lakes) don’t interest us at all. The places in the US where we’d want to own a home (Napa, coastal Maine, south Florida) are a) much more expensive to buy in and b) a plane flight away, so we’d spend all our vacation budget visiting the home, which we don’t want to do.

            I’m with you on the au pair though. We never had one, but it’s way cheaper than a nanny and often cheaper than daycare for 2 kids.

    13. Cook at home rather than eat out. I don’t watch the grocery bill and will buy whatever fresh produce I want. I don’t do this to save money, I do it because the food I cook is more nutritious than whatever I order and I eat better.

      1. Yes. It is amazing what a good cook I have become (and a not-bad baker, too) once going to restaurants became more risk than we could take.

    14. Re the small expenses vs large expenses, small expenses, especially recurring ones, quickly become big expenses. When I decided about 2 years ago to start paying better attention to our small expenses, I cut hundreds of dollars/month from our outflow without significantly affecting our standard of living. At the time, I had 3 teenaged boys living at home, so every meal cooked at home versus a restaurant netted me probably $70 ($100 vs $30 for ingredients). Saving $10/line on our cell phones was $60/month. That doesn’t mean I don’t also track large expenses, but I’ve always done that. We bought houses well below our means; we pay cash for cars and drive them forever; but now I also shop Walmart and cook Sunday brunch at home, and it has definitely made a difference.

      1. Total agree — the multiplier effect of a family doing X is going to be a big number. Especially if it involves 3 teen boys and food.

      2. Isn’t there a saying something along the lines of ‘small leaks can sink big ships’? Paying attention to small expenses is just as important as paying attention to the big ones. If I’m drinking one coffee a day, five days a week, it’s going to add up to a significant savings when I’m bringing that coffee from home instead of buying it, and that’s just one example.

      3. +1 on the cost of eating out. It very easily gets up to $100 per meal to eat out – that’s half a week’s worth of groceries!

    15. I don’t think I’m frugal about little stuff in general, but I also get all my books out of the library. I can’t even remember the last time I bought a book. I also don’t spend much money on beauty compared to a lot of women – I don’t wear makeup or dye my hair, I get haircuts quarterly at most at a cheap place, and I don’t do nails except for occasional pedicures in the summer or before a beach vacation.

      1. I’m like this with some things, but I’d also caution to think big picture. Looks and signs of aging matter a lot in business, especially for women. Opportunities and advancements are easier when you look the part. I don’t think people will pay much attention to a professional vs. home manicure. But things like unkempt hair or uneven skin and dark circles when everyone else around is wearing makeup can work against being seen as polished. I don’t like that society is this way, but it’s false to ignore it. I will gladly put a little money toward a good haircut before a public speaking gig or important meeting with a prospect. It’s penny-wise and pound foolish to do otherwise.

        1. Oh just to be clear, this isn’t a financial decision. I’ve never worn make-up and wouldn’t know how to start if I wanted to, and I avoid the hair and nail salon as much as possible because it’s such a huge time sink. The fact that it saves me a boatload of money is just a nice side benefit.

          I’m not in the corporate world and my salary is set by objective metrics that have nothing to do with my appearance, but if appearance were a factor it’s much more likely I’d be penalized than rewarded for looking too pretty and polished. I get that it’s different in the corporate world, but I’m still skeptical that there’s a good return on investment for women who are spending thousands a year on beauty.

  3. Following up on yesterday’s thread, Israel has released footage showing a failed bombing attempt by Islamic Jihad that perfectly matches the timestamp when the hospital was hit. It is also indicated that it will release intercepted recordings and drone footage from Islamic Jihad showing the fail. It would be nice if the New York Times released these updates with the same haste it showed when releasing the headline and breaking news blast “Israeli Strike Kills Hundreds” on the word of Hamas alone, but alas. At least they edited the headline with almost as much haste when they realized their mistake.

    1. Both sides think the NYTimes is biased, lol (yesterday they put out a big piece about how Jewish teenagers feel scared and alone, and commenters found it tone deaf since a Palestinian boy and his mom were just killed/attacked). It’s hard to be a news organization in real time. I’m sure they are vetting it as we type.

      1. I didn’t see that piece, but I would not consider that tone deaf at all because that have already been several dozen antisemitic incidents across the country since 10/7, including some harassing Jewish youth. In any case, readers’ opinions about whether a piece is tone deaf or not is a little different than wild inaccuracy in breaking news reporting.

        2. Ok, it’s up now in several places (live feed and own headline). The breaking news alert sourced the Palestine authorities, so it’s not “wildly inaccurate” — it’s quite accurate (reporting what was said by who), but it is misleading. Then they pushed another alert with what the Israeli authorities said.

          I get the frustration. The newspapers are run by humans doing the best they can in a chaotic situation.

          1. The Ministry of Health in Gaza (which released the early blame on Israel) is controlled by Hamas. Those are the “authorities.” It’s absolutely wild to me that the paper of record in the U.S. would cite the word of a terrorist group without verification. A more appropriate initial headline would have been “explosion in Gaza hospital leads to hundreds of deaths and injuries; source of blast not yet verified.”

          2. IDK that they are doing the best that they can. It is one thing to start at “IDF attacks hospital” to “hospital strike” to “hospital explosion”. Walking it back accurately would be to switch out IDF for Hamas (or whichever friendly fire source launched the attack) equally in blame and intensity. It is like “an unfortunate accident occurred” when it’s not the people you wanted to blame so badly did something.

          3. Yeah, as the person above said, the original sourcing came from a government entity controlled by Hamas. I fully understand taking some neutral or neutral-ish third party’s word over Israel, but it’s wild to me that the NYTimes would print what Hamas says as truth.

          4. They don’t know who did it yet. US defense sources have cautioned this is a “preliminary analysis”; they believe it isn’t Israel, but are still investigating. So no, they aren’t going to push out “Hamas or whoever did it” right now. That would also be wrong.

          5. Yeah, if I were a person who just read headlines I’m not sure I would know that the IDF didn’t actually bomb the hospital, Islamic Jihad did. I’m not sure why it’s so hard to update the headlines to something that clearly identifies the perpetrators. Especially when the first headlines so clearly misidentified the perpetrator.

    2. This is getting so old. I am sorry if everyone muted or blocked you on social media for relentlessly posting one-sided pro-israeli propaganda, but I don’t know that posting it here is doing what you think it’s doing for your “cause.” At this point, I’m just sick of this. If I could mute you, I would.

      1. You can! You can choose not to read. You can choose to collapse the thread. You have agency, so use it. You can’t control other people, but you can control yourself and you’ll feel better once you do.

      2. Yeah I agree. Coming here to constantly browbeat everyone into blindly supporting Israel isn’t having the effect you hope for. Give it a rest.

          1. I think she’s saying she has no problem with people being anti-Hamas, i.e., she’s not condoning Hamas, she’s defending people speaking out against Hamas.

    3. Clarifying that Israel didn’t cause the hospital blast isn’t Israeli propaganda. The US independently reached that conclusion based on our own intelligence. If you still insist Israel is responsible for this, you’re taking the word of terrorists over your own government.

      2. Yeah, propaganda is a word that means something and correcting rushed, biased headlines isn’t it.

      3. People here can and do read the news on their own, every day, multiple times a day, given how quickly people post about breaking events. No one is “taking the word of terrorists over our own government” that I’ve seen? Where did you get that from anything that’s been posted today or yesterday?

        If I want to read the news I’ll go read the news. The constant pro-Israel browbeating, as someone else said, is unnecessary and actually turning me off to paying much attention to this whole situation or listening to Israel’s side. If y’all are in the right – why are you so defensive about everything? Do you seriously not realize the constant hammering on the same talking points is going to make people suspicious about your motives?

      4. I wish they would address the claims that IDF tweeted about this and then deleted tweets; did that just not really happen? If Twitter was hacked or something, it would help to understand what’s going on, or if there’s a massive hostile propaganda campaign, I wish that could be named and addressed.

        1. It has been widely reported that there are multiple fake social media accounts on both sides posting to X and Facebook. I read an article about a fake Arabic language account claiming to be the IDF which FB took down.

          At this point I wouldn’t trust X at all and would only trust FB if I linked through the official website of the person or organization in question.

          1. Thanks. Honestly this is how I feel, but it helps to have specific accounts identified when debunking claims. I’ll look for the article about the account that FB took down.

    4. At minimum, they created a distorted record that they need to fully correct. And that distorted record may draw us into WW3. The stakes are too high for what the NYT ran as a fix. It did not correct such an inflammatory error.

      1. I agree. This rash headline isn’t just causing “online drama” – it’s threatening the negotiations with multiple state actors in the Middle East.

        1. What country is making decisions based on a NYT headline? Palestinians maintain Israel did it, and the loose cannon nations are their allies. I assume they take their (mis)information from the PA/terrorist groups, not the NYT…

          1. I definitely agree with you that Arab countries blaming Israel would have happened to some degree regardless of what the western media did, but the NYT (and other western media, not just NYT) posting it legitimized Hamas’s statements and shifted the weight of public opinion. According to my newsfeeds, a very large chunk of American liberals under the age of 40 still think Israel is responsible, and while they might have felt that way anyway, I think the NYT reporting that Israel was responsible didn’t help. It’s harder to undo a false impression than to avoid that impression in the first place, you know?

    5. If anyone is interested in some good reporting about what happened and the limited evidence, the BBC has some great analysis of the available evidence.

  4. I got my flu and covid booster at work yesterday afternoon. Most of the night I was unable to sleep or get comfortable and this AM everything feels sore and my head and joints hurt. ( this has happened for me in some manner for all the shots)

    Giving myself permission to do the absolute minimum from the couch today.

    2. for sure! I had this reaction to shot #2 after a lunchtime slot, and ever since have chosen evening (7pm or later) slots so that I get a good night’s sleep before any side effects kick in. Feel better!

    3. I get so sick from the COVID shots that I have to do them on weekends or holidays so I can be off work.

      1. +1 – I get sicker from the shots than I did from actual COVID. Still getting them regardless, but it sucks.

    4. The flu shot was rough this year. I normally don’t get any side effects besides a sore arm, but this year it made me sleepy and achy, like a Covid shot even though I only got flu. (Had Covid in July so I’m waiting on the booster.)

    5. I also got both shots yesterday. Today I am working in a tee and sweats. I am pretty sure there will be a late morning/early afternoon nap too. Just remember that today’s annoyance is better than either sickness.

    6. Yup, got my flu shot and Covid booster on Monday – slept terribly Monday night, was only half-productive yesterday. Improved today, but still not 100%. Still, I imagine it’s better than getting the flu/covid would be, so here’s to hoping I stay healthy.

    7. FWIW, I’ve had fewer side effects each time. The first one left me feeling that way, the one after left me feeling a little tired a few hours later, and this last one had zero side effects. Here’s hoping your experience from here on out is the same!

      1. Similar for me.

        The first two Covid shots were a doozy and knocked me out for a full weekend each. However, the flu shot and Covid booster I got a few weeks ago had no side effects other than a small bruise on my arm where the pharmacist accidentally pinched me when putting the band aid in place.

  5. VERY low stakes question…in search of a new mousepad for my computer at work. Any recommendations?

    1. Speaking of free things, if you’re friendly with your marketing department, ask if they have any samples (from 4imprint or the like) or company ones. Got mine this way earlier this year 😉

    2. No specific recs, but if you don’t have a separate wrist rest for your mouse, get a mousepad with one built in. I never realized how much I needed one until I had one. Go ahead and splurge for one for your keyboard if you don’t have one of those, too!

      1. +100! Earlier this year I bought a wrist-rest mouse and a standing mouse. Both have been so helpful reducing wrist pain.

  6. I feel like this board needs to know that Talbots has a velvet tuxedo – in red or black – with slim ankle pants or full-length – for all those holiday parties. Link to follow.

    3. Thank you! Just ordered. The flare pants are much more my speed and look really cute too.

  7. Book recommendations to learn/improve executive functioning for adults with ADHD? I was smart enough as a child to never have to learn this (unfortunately). I was diagnosed as an adult, and I am finally on a good medication, but I recognize the medication just allows me to successfully perform executive functions, it doesn’t do it for me or teach me how to do it. I am full-time in-house counsel with three small children, and I am just surviving, not thriving. Thanks!

    1. A couple I liked. Not sure if they’re what you’re looking for.
      How to Keep House While Drowning
      Taking Charge of Adult ADHD by Barkley

      1. Varies in quality and doesn’t vet all their “experts” very well. Not a bad source for ideas, but worth taking some of it with a pinch of salt.

    3. Some of Dr. Edward Hallowell’s “Distraction” books focus on strategies for adults. I think those would be the classic recommendation for adults looking for strategies.

    4. Smart but Scattered, by Peg Dawson and Richard Guare. There are 3, one is for kids, one for teens, and then there is a ‘guide to success’ that, if I remember correctly, is geared to adults. All 3 have great advice that can be translated to fit different situations.

    5. I’ve used are “The Disorganized Mind: Coaching your ADHD Brain” by Nancy Ratey and refer to it once a year or so.

      Also, a colleague is a trained ADHD coach. Send me an email if you want her name. laura at careerevolutioncoach dot com

  8. Suggestions for high quality puzzles? I would like to send a gift and was looking at Wentworth (very well made, British), but they are too expensive.

    1. I like the ones made by Pomegranate. We’ve done several large art ones and the quality is very good for the price.

    2. I love Cavallini and Co puzzles, especially the national park and camping puzzles. No plastic and both were really satisfying to work on.

      2. +2!!
        The Ravensburger and the Pomegranate ones rec’ed above are my favorite. Both brands are super high quality.
        I was gifted two Liberty puzzles. They’re beautiful / well designed and make great gifts for the giver. I recognize this is total personal preference, but as the receiver, I prefer my puzzles in 750-1500 ct range and for the pieces to be plain ol’ jigsaw shaped rather than a shapes that may not interlock. My liberty puzzles are 300-500ct and have animal and hats/teacup shaped pieces…fun but a little gimmicky IMHO.

  9. Our TSA Precheck expires in early 2024, about a year before we’re due to renew our Global Entry. We don’t need to renew TSA Precheck as long as we have current Global Entry, right? It makes me nervous to let it lapse but it seems silly to pay for both if Global Entry includes Precheck.

  10. Low-stakes question:
    I made a pact with some friends that we would each commit to doing something pure fun for ourselves before the end of the year. It should not require travel or last more than 1-2 days, but otherwise no limits. My partner and I brainstormed on this last night but found it surprisingly difficult to come up with something outside of what we already do in our free time.

    What would you do?

    2. I’ve always wanted to really learn how to play golf. Maybe at some place where I can buy a spa day pass b/c I would also need a massage. I love a tennis clinic (for a sport I’ve played for decades) b/c I can always be better + aging desk worker body needs all the advice it can get.

    4. Surfing lesson, wine and paint night, ballroom dance class, mountain biking at a ski resort (with a lift), skiing, scuba diving, climbing to the highest peak in your state (for most of us, that’s not Denali), a day out sailing on a historic ship (very doable in many coastal cities), and anything else outside.

    5. Amusement park day, skydiving, bungee jumping, tasting menu at a fancy restaurant, trip to the zoo to coo at the baby animals, water balloon fight, dance party in your living room to your favorite high-school era songs, fun theater show/stand up act, comedy movie in the theaters, paint and wine night event, wine tasting at home with friends, haunted house, hay ride/fall orchard visit/pumpkin picking, driving around THAT neighborhood to see the crazy xmas lights, shopping at antique stores even if you have no plans to buy, mani/pedi…

    6. mini golf, escape room, going to the movies, wine tasting nearby, art museum + leisurely lunch out, pottery painting

    7. I am going to “Bee College” to learn how to keep bees, and then I am getting bees. I don’t even like honey very much. I just think bees are cool. Yellow jackets are my sworn enemies, but bees seem much kinder. I am probably no help, but I’m excited about Bee College.

      1. Nice! I went to perfume school recently. Same idea. I just needed to learn something new.

    8. A friend group of min recently had a slumber party style hangout – PJs, movies, beverages, crafts, and it was GREAT. Would be awesome for a weekend or Saturday.

    10. Not sure of your climate, but I did a Resort Pass at a fancy nearby resort with a friend on a beautiful day and we sat by the pool and ordered drinks and yummy food and gossiped all day. It was glorious since not only were her kids in school but we had the pool area to ourselves since everyone else’s were, too. It was seriously the best day playing hooky. I’m tempted to do another day like this as a spa day soon since it’s colder now.

    11. Go skiing or sledding (if you are close to a mountain). Spa day. Shopping trip downtown with fancy lunch out. Broadway show.

    13. Depends where you live, but I’d like to go skiing (in December) or hiking to enjoy the leaves (now) + a fun meal or drink out.

    14. A baking or cooking class, or cookie/cake decorating class? We love to do those when we travel (e.g., pasta making in Italy, macaron making in France), but I’ve always thought it would be fun to do a local one with friends.

      1. Or even just going all out on a super involved cooking session at home, trying a new recipe or an old favorite.

  11. Any hotel recommendations for Nashville? I’m tacking on a couple days after a work trip so I’d like to stay somewhere safe, clean and fun. Doesn’t need to be on Broadway, I’d like somewhere walkable. The Graduate is booked for that weekend or I’d stay there. I’ll have a car. Mid-range pricing. Thanks!

    1. I stayed at the Noelle a few years ago and it was cute. Not super fancy, but convenient and comfortable.

  12. I want to grow my hair out long and lustrous, but it always starts getting dry and split ends as soon as it passes shoulder length. Is there anything that can help with this? Keratin? I asked my stylist and she just recommended deep conditioner. TIA!

    1. Do you color/lighten your hair? I significantly lowered my hair quality when I went lighter. Demi-permanent darker hair color did not damage my hair.
      Also, minimizing heat styling as much as possible.

      1. No, I neither color nor heat style! I agree though, when I did those things it was much worse.

    2. I started using Oribe products – shampoo, conditioner, and styling. It made an amazing difference, and I finally have been able to grow my hair out.

    3. My hair gets dried out from coloring and from heat styling. It’s way better when I remember to use Olaplex No 3 with some consistency. When I remember/have time I like to put it in my hair and let it sit for a few hours before I shower and wash my hair but even 5 minutes while I’m shaving my legs seems to help.

    4. Many people with long hair find that they need gentler shampoo. It is hard to condition deeply enough to make up for a shampoo that is stripping hair!

      If you blow dry or use heat treatments, you may need to look into how to protect the hair from dry heat.

    5. I gained another 6 inches in possibly length for my hair after I quit doing any heat and started mostly using sulfate free shampoos. I also don’t dye it, but I didn’t do that before either.
      I think its also important to cut off any dry length so you’re starting with fully healthy hair.
      And then your stylist is mostly right. Frequent deep conditioning helps maintain the hair, but you have to find the type that works best for your hair. Coconut oil based ones don’t work for me.
      Also, perhaps look up how to tell if your hair needs protein or not. Different masks/conditioners have more or less protein.

    6. In the shower gently squeeze as much water out of your hair as you can before applying conditioner. Let the conditioner sit on your hair while you wash your body and shave. Before putting on a backpack or purse move your hair out of the way. The strap rubbing against your hair can damage it.

      1. What this poster said about purses/seatbelts. Also, if you do any helmeted sports, wear a skullcap under. Makes a world of difference for this daily cyclist.

      3. Always wash your body after conditioner – conditioner residue left on your skin can cause acne.

        1. Not the anon at 1:02 but my stylist says 8-12 weeks depending on length (the shorter your hair is, the more often you should go). I have long hair and I go every 12 weeks on the dot. I can really feel when it’s time to go back to the salon towards the end of the time frame.

  13. I really like this sweater but I’ve never heard of this brand. Can anyone comment on quality, durability, customer service?

    1. Yes! I have three Funnel Neck Sweaters in different colors and two Ribbed Pullover shirts from them. All purchased during end of season sales. Love their fit / slouchy look—the sweaters are some of my go-to pieces in the winter months. I like the fit of the shirts too, just wish I didn’t get the bright colors on clearance.

      Fabric wise, one sweater pilled horribly within the first few months—nothing a fabric shaver couldn’t handle. My other two sweaters (same style purchased later) seem to be holding up okay. I will note I reached out to their customer service about the pilling and never received a reply back…grrr

  14. Has anyone ever taken the lump sum of a pension from an old job and just put it in your IRA? How did you consider your options and why did you choose to do so? Thanks!

    1. Yes. I did it because I didn’t trust the financials of my old employer. When they offered everyone a lump sum I jumped at the chance. Your 401k is guaranteed, your pension is not. There’s a pension back-stop at the government level, but it can be pennies on the dollar.

      I put the lump sum in a rollover IRA at my regular bank, invested it in an index fund, and sat on it for a while before deciding to roll it over again to a place where I have other investments. Now I’m on the verge of rolling that all over again to a new place because I’ve soured on the current place.

    2. I rolled two old 401ks into an IRA several years back. I had crunched the numbers on fees and figured out that I could open an IRA at my bank and cut my fees in half, plus have access to better investment options. I made an appointment to go in to my local US Bank branch, and the bank “investment specialist” got on the phone with the 401k management companies and arranged for the rollovers. Everything was done and in place within a couple of weeks. I manage the diversification and investments myself through the US Bank website.

    3. I have done that. The lump sum was 5k or so, and it was during a period of me moving every couple of years and I figured I’d lose track of it otherwise. It was easy.

    4. Are you talking about an actual pension, or about tax-advantaged retirement accounts like 401(k)s?

      If actual pension: ask HR what happens with other benefits are tied to taking monthly pension checks versus a lump sum. For example, at UC, if you retire and take monthly pension checks, you are eligible for retiree health insurance. If you retire and take the lump sum, you are not.

      1. Ooh good call – that never occurred to me. It’s an actual pension so I’ll check that out.

    5. I’ve never had a job with a pension, but I think I’ve heard Jean Chatsky answer this question on the HerMoney podcast. You might try looking through articles at the HerMoney website to see if there’s anything on point.

    6. A few thoughts:

      – What’s motivating you to take this lump sum? Did they offer it or, like a previous poster, are you worried about solvency? Is this a public sector or private sector retirement plan? The considerations are very different.

      – A defined benefit pension (“DB”) is professionally managed by experts, and often at a lower cost than individual investments because of scale. Do you believe you have the expertise to outperform those experts and that you’ll pay less in fees?

      – The federal government does have a backstop, the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation. for private sector DB plans. Private employers pay in insurance premiums and the government will pay out if needed. Sometimes it’s less than what you were promised, sometimes it’s not – it depends on the circumstances of PBGC’s takeover.

      – Are you age 50 or older? There can be penalties for early withdrawals. (“Early” is defined by the plan.)

      If you’ll provide a bit more info, happy to talk through this.

    7. I did last year. Husband was dying and I have an incurable lymphoma, so I don’t bet that I’ll live 20 or even 10 years, so I took the lump sum an rolled it into my IRA. Easy.

  15. Talk me into or out of joining orange theory. I would really like to join a gym bc I do better in classes. I tried OTF and enjoyed the class – found myself in the red zone pretty easily – so I guess that means that I need to exercise my heart? The cons for me are that its pricey and only has one type of class (no yoga, dance, or strength) so i will still have to supplement with weight training on my own. The pros for me are that I dont have to think about it much, there’s not much planning to do (for example hiit days vs strength days), just go and bc its pricey i’ll probably force myself to go. There’s a cheaper full-service gym nearby, but its new and doesnt seem to have a ton of classes yet. Ack, I find myself overthinking all of this and not working out.

    2. I love OTF! I say go for it. You can always try 8 classes per month and see if you love it enough to justify.

      I like changing up my workouts, so I’ll join OTF for a year or so until I’m tired of it and then do something else for a while, but I always cycle back to it. I just like the variety and the fact that I don’t have to think about my workout at all, yet I get a good one in.

      On your concerns about strength training, OTF in my area has a strength only class 3 times per week. I’d also start on the weight floor so I could lift a bit heavier. The weights you do there aren’t going to get you through a powerlifting meet or anything, but it’s sufficient for good health imo.

    3. Just sign up for Orange Theory. Perfect is the enemy of the good-enough here.

      FWIW, I’d love to be someone who’s great about going to the gym and lifting on my own, but I’ve discovered that I’m just not. I enjoy having the little mini-community of a group exercise class more than working out on my own.

    4. Go for it. The only way I consistently do strength training with real weights is to get a personal trainer. I’m good at home workouts to an extent, but I gravitate toward things that don’t require thought, like cycling or rowing. I tried CrossFit for about a year but I was pretty turned off by the atmosphere. I wish there was a gym with an atmosphere more like Curves and a workout more like crossfit.

      1. I think I needed to hear this. I’m really good about running or biking on my own. But I am erratic, at best, with strength training because I honestly don’t enjoy it very much. It’s also hard to find an at-home strength workout that isn’t so easy as to be unhelpful or is way, way harder than I can manage.

    5. I really love OTF. It works really well (better than other classes I’ve taken or programs I’ve devised on my own) to keep me in shape for the things I love to do — hiking, nordic skiing, downhill skiing. Last winter, I skiied the Troll Trail in Norway (8-day ski tour w/ some moderately challenging terrain in places, and some longer days (35K) after doing nothing but OTF 3 times a week in the previous months (little skiing at home due to bad weather/no snow) and felt good.

    6. I love OTF! No pre-thought or planning required. They just added a “Strength 50” class that is just 50 minutes of strength training too.

  16. Ok I’m finally ready to think about this.

    Has anyone here been diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, and if so has it helped you be a better employee? Better person?

    My daughter was diagnosed as a teen with ADHD (now a young adult) and occasionally when I say things like “I sat at my desk for hours and got nothing done” she just shakes her head and tells me to get tested. I’ve resisted because I feel like I just need to kick my own butt into gear and I’m a mostly fully functional adult – I pay my taxes and my mortgage on time, my house isn’t a mess, I am a reliable and responsible friend, partner, and parent. But I know I could be more efficient and less distracted.

    There are other habits as well – obsessive interests that I get more deeply into than most people, then move onto the next thing (I just consider this fun personally but it can interfere with other things), letting things get pretty disorganized and then doing big cleanups/organization hinges that I don’t stick with. Lots of half finished projects. (I’m a knitter, I think this is normal.)

    Please tell me your stories and whether you think it’s worth it for a late 50s person to pursue.

    1. I was just diagnosed at 43. I’ve started medication, and it helps me stay focused, but getting started is still tough for me. What you describe is very similar to me – especially the “I need to kick my own butt into gear.” While I still have some work to do to figure out the best strategies to help, it was very freeing to have the diagnosis because it takes away some of the “I just need to get my act together” mentality I had that just led to me beating myself up.

    2. I don’t have it but have one kid with ASD/ADHD/anxiety and what the DX did was help get her targeted help for where she struggles — getting overstimulated (so how to anticipate triggers / cope / manage) and executive functioning. Meds so far haven’t been any magic bullet. If you have figured out EF skills, IDK what the DX would add unless you are seeking meds. We have one kid who just has the inattentive type of ADD (no H) and haven’t needed meds for her as she is coping well with school and happy (sibling is NOT having a good ride with how NOISY and unruly school is; I keep telling her that college / work isn’t like this really and it will get more to her liking as she gets older).

      DH is most definitely ADHD and struggles in a way it sounds like you don’t — I see it every time I work late or go out of town and it would help our marriage and home life tremendously if he were just able to handle things better solo. [This is different than typical husband learned helplessness I think.]

    3. You should pursue testing.

      One of the elements of ADHD is having people your whole life tell you that you’re ‘just lazy’ or ‘don’t care enough’ or ‘just need to focus’ over and over and over. Its easy to internalize these messages- and your post sounds an awful lot like you have. You cannot willpower yourself out of being bad at executive function, and every time you try and fail you’ll end up blaming yourself instead of recognizing that your mind works differently.

    4. I don’t know…I share all of the “symptoms” you’ve described and I think I’m just a procrastinator when it comes to tasks I just don’t want to do. None of the real symptoms of ADHD apply to me.

    5. I found it absolutely worth it to try the meds and feel what it felt like to be on them. I I tried a few and only one worked, and I wasn’t able to stay on it, but at least I have felt the difference now.

      1. I think this is a keen comment – other than therapy and changing behaviors, they’re mostly going to give you drugs. Everyone loves defaulting to drugs for ADHD.
        Do you want to introduce a new pharmaceutical in your life at this point? We all spend so much time struggling to find the right drug combo for ADHD and our bodies… is it worth going through that to sit staring your desk a little less?

        1. Meh I hate this attitude. Drugs aren’t bad or shameful just because they’re for mental health. I’m on a lifelong medication for an inherited heart defect (both of my kids also inherited this). If we take the drug every day, we get to live a full life. If we don’t, based on studies and family history, we’ll die shortly after age 60. I’m also on meds for anxiety. It’s not lengthening my life like the other one, but it’s helping my brain function more smoothly just like my heart needs help to function more smoothly. Neither drug is wrong or better than the other, and both were 100% worth the effort of finding the right ones.

          It’s totally worth having advances in medicine to have a better overall life while we’re here. No one asks if kids really need ear tubes just to have a little less of a chance of ear infections. Don’t minimize very real mental health impacts by questioning meds to help ADHD.

        2. My point was actually that it’s not a big deal to just try ADHD meds and see what it’s like. It’s not like you’re stuck with them once you try them. Some of them are fast acting enough to take strategically, like only for certain tasks.

          You also don’t have to take them for weeks or months like an antidepressant or something. You can take them for a few days to compare. My psychiatrist literally had me use samples to try a few; I didn’t even have to spend money on those.

          The reason they default to drugs for ADHD is that for the majority of ADHD patients, the drugs work extremely well.

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