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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
The leaves are falling, the pumpkin spice lattes are brewing, and this midi dress from Old Navy looks like it would pair beautifully with a chunky cardigan and boots for a casual fall Friday look. If reds, oranges, and yellows aren’t your thing, this deep bottle green color is a beautiful option for a fall color palette. It would look beautiful with an oatmeal or camel-colored sweater and some gold jewelry.
The dress is $49.99 full price and comes in regular sizes XS–3X tall sizes XS–XXL, and petite sizes XS–L. It also comes in black and “boysenberry juice.” Today at Old Navy you can get 25% off your purchase, even on clearance.
Sales of note for 10.10.24
- Nordstrom – Extra 25% off clearance (through 10/14); there's a lot from reader favorites like Boss, FARM Rio, Marc Fisher LTD, AGL, and more. Plus: free 2-day shipping, and cardmembers earn 6x points per dollar (3X the points on beauty).
- Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale (ends 10/12)
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything plus extra 25% off your $125+ purchase
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off a lot of sale items, with code
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide
- J.Crew Factory – 50% off entire site, plus extra 25% off orders $150+
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Sale on sale, up to 85% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 50% off 2+ markdowns
- Target – Circle week, deals on 1000s of items
- White House Black Market – Buy one, get one – 50% off full price styles
Actually I live in SW OP...Is it the weekend yet?
For the Oak Parker looking for laser hair removal recs yesterday – here is what the FB Moms Group recommends. Multiple recommendations for Oak Park Laser & Skin (Rao) and 4U Hair & Spa in River Forest. Also I go to Sparkle Aesthetics (Dani) for my Botox – they have laser hair removal but I have not done it. Also multiple recommendations for Enfuse but it’s in the city at North and Damen. A couple said if you’re interested in electrolysis instead, Kelly Inc. on Lake (Stephanie) is great. Good luck!
oak parker
Thank you so much my friend!
How frequently can you go back for laser?
I am wondering if I should by some sort of package for “whole body” to save some $, and just bite the bullet and go like crazy. But I will probably move in 6-12 months, so maybe I shouldn’t do that if I need to spread it over…. years?
Abby
When I did it I went once every 4-6 weeks. I wouldn’t get a whole body package if they’ll include touchups if you wont’ be there within a year because at least for me, I need touchups. Most of my underarm hair no longer grows, but for bikini area, it grows back a little bit.
Anonymous
Not in OP but this is my second time having laser – both times it was about 5-6 appointments spaced about 6-8 weeks apart. so it might be better to wait for your new place, especially since yearly touchups may be included in whatever package you buy.
Ribena
I love this pick!
This afternoon I am reviewing some reporting documents and have been reminded of my pet peeve: comma splicing (when people use commas to join together two ideas which should have a colon or a semi colon, or even be two separate sentences). Infuriating. Would love to know all your grammar peeves – for a former boss of mine it was double spaces.
Vicky Austin
Can’t tell if your boss preferred or loathed double spaces. I am team loathe, and I once got into an argument with a coworker who believed in them. My stance is that it’s an archaic word processing convention and you don’t need to do it in Microsoft Word. Her stance was that she wanted her kids to learn it because she didn’t want them to be lazy.
Lately I’ve been working on workpapers which have gone through so many editors it’s impossible to tell who did what or how long ago, but somebody, somewhere, has been using a hyphen where a comma would be appropriate. It’s been driving me nuts.
A friend and I like to collect bad examples of quotation marks used for emphasis (on homemade signs and the like).
Cb
My co-author uses en-dash when he should use em-dash and it drives me nuts. I am hopeless at grammar though.
Maudie Atkinson
Meanwhile, nothing fills me with rage so much as an em-dash (or a hyphen) when there should be an em-dash.
anonshmanon
MS word will mark double spaces as errors, meaning this practice has officially been retired!
I hope the convention around spelling out abbreviations for each chapter goes next.
Anon
Oh well if Word says it’s wrong then it’s definitely wrong.
anonshmanon
I think they were pretty late to jump on the bandwagon. APA style guide, Chicago Manual of Style and MLA are all one space after period.
Anon
MS Word will also mark single spaces as errors – it’s a setting that can be toggled back and forth depending on user preference.
Cat
I’m Team Double Space. Even with modern word processing, I dislike how a sentence feels “crowded” with the next one if there’s only a single space.
I 100% overuse em-dashes, but at least I don’t use en-dashes in place of them :)
Anon
Cosign on double spaces. Also makes it easier to type on a phone because it knows that two spaces means to throw in a period after the last word.
As a person with old eyes, double spaces improve readability, even when I have on my readers.
Anon
I type double spaces because they get corrected to period + single space. It’s just easier.
PLB
Same.
Ribena
She loathed them – specifically their appearance in the middle of sentences as a consequence of moving ideas around.
Vicky Austin
I daresay even my coworker the double-space defender would be irritated by that!
Anonymous
I can get on board with hating double spaces in the middle of sentences. Team double space after a period for life, though.
Cat
oh I am 100% team double-space between sentences, but just how my eye notices if sentences look “crowded” without it? My eye also immediately notices an extra space between words. Those obviously need to be edited out!!
anon
Lazy?? What does it have to do with lazy???
It’s typewriters that are archaic because they have monospacing. Any computer program should allow extra space with a comma, built in. That’s why it’s no longer necessary to type PERIOD SPACE SPACE.
So unless this woman has her children do their homework on typewriters . . .
Thank you for this. Now I’ve heard everything.
Anon
I hear this argument a lot about modern word processing fixing for spaces after a sentence. If that’s true, how come my eye can visually and accurately tell how many spaces there are? I don’t buy it.
Anon
I think you just want there to be more space then double spacing. No one is saying there’s no difference, but to double space in a word processor that is already leaving extra space between sentences is more space than is used in print.
Anon
Also: the Oxford comma improves clarity and there is no reason not to use it, especially in anything written that could be involved in a lawsuit as to its meaning (securities offering documents, looking at you specifically).
I also like comma humor: Let’s eat Grandma vs Let’s eat, Grandma. Grandma is now having Donner party concerns.
Ribena
Absolutely. Going through the document adding Oxford commas like I’m Oprah handing out gifts.
Senior Attorney
*snort* same here!
I used to go round and round with a former boss, who was notoriously stingy with commas. My position was that commas make the text easier to read, while his position was “I work hard to write my opinions and I see no reason why people shouldn’t have to work hard to read them!” Gah.
oxford enthusiast
The Oxford comma is essential! Why on earth would you leave it out? Unless you’re the New York Times print edition where every bit of space counts there’s just no excuse. End of rant.
Vicky Austin
I love comma humor, even though my indoctrination into Associated Press style as a high school journalist means that I usually omit the Oxford when not writing for formal audiences. (AP’s reasoning is that newspapers need to conserve space and although an extra comma is admittedly tiny, they do add up!)
https://upjoke.com/oxford-comma-jokes
pugsnbourbon
I tend to omit it, too, unless it’s essential for clarity. In a family of editors, writers and librarians this truly makes me the black sheep.
Anne-on
Another Oxford Comma enthusiast here! Everyone in my communications college was required to take an intro writing/grammar course freshman year, and it was HARD. We were also taught to use the Oxford Comma unless explicitly told otherwise by our own editorial handbook. ‘Eats, Shoots, and Leaves’ was published after I graduated but my entire PR team had copies prominently displayed on their shelves in 2008ish.
Ribena
My organisation has a style guide but won’t share it beyond the PR team so I just have to highlight stuff throughout documents and hope someone who has access to the style guide will check it. So frustrating!
JHC
Long live the Oxford comma!
Curious
My old boss hates the Oxford comma (perhaps a Francophone thing? no idea). I always had to sit on my hands to not add them in.
Curious
Add it in? Add commas in. There’s a way to fix that sentence, I’m sure.
Anon
Rachel Ray enjoys cooking her dogs and her husband.
Anon
But she wouldn’t enjoy eating them. Carnivores, I have read, are not tasty. Let’s eat! Just not Grandma.
Anonymous
Team Oxford comma 4e. I made sure I married someone who felt similarly.
Anonymous
I hate double spaces with a firey passion, not only do I think they’re dumb, but my organization publishes for the public so we literally can’t use them as it’s against accessibility practices and unfriendly to screen readers. I just secretly remove the double spaces from anything my boss touches because it’s not a fight I want to have.
Vicky Austin
This is exactly what I did with that coworker, heh! And to make things funnier, I don’t think she even noticed.
Anon
Honest question from a former newspaper typesetter who now pays acute attention to what I call White Space Management: how does this affect accessibility and screen readers? Does the screen reader not recognize the period? And how does it process two spaces differently than something like fully-justified type (or funky spacing like bullet lists)?
Anonymous
The reader will read ‘space space’ since spaces aren’t an absence of a character they’re an invisible character/symbol. You can can see this if you’ve ever turned on the formatting symbols function in word.
Anonymous
How does that make the document less accessible/readable?
Anon
Experienced screen reader users run it at a very fast rate (absolutely unintelligibly fast to me as someone who doesn’t rely on screen readers). Efficiency is key. Anything that slows it down with unnecessary speech is a burden. It’s a bit like the other commenter said with AP style and the Oxford comma: it seems like no big deal when it’s one sentence, but it adds up over the course of a day to be hearing “space, space” every single time.
Anonymous
Because the person who needs to use the screen eader will have to listen to ‘space space’ after every sentence for the whole length of the document. It’s just impolite really. Same with using page breaks sure you could use line breaks but then someone on a screen reader would be subjected to ‘line break, line break, line break….’ which is pretty rude.
Anon
Is it possibly easier to do things that way for Braille? Like more readable to fingers? There is a blind / low vision program at my kids’ school and they have a Braille typewriter there that is fascinating to me. Before cataract surgery became a thing, my whole family >75 would have vision too poor for reading. And we send to live into our 90s and are big readers.
Anon
Is there a difference for what people use screen readers for vs something like books on tape (and just speed that up)?
Anon
I use screen readers, and none of my read the spaces after a period. What programs are you using?
Curious
I admit I cringed at the comma splice here.
Anonymous
Ah yes, fighting for disability rights and this is your take away.
Curious
It’s true. I can’t imagine what about the overall thread would have put comma splices on my mind.
Anon
Haha same.
Touché
Anonymous
Can you point me to guidance that says that screen readers really do say “space space”? I ask because it doesn’t make sense to me that the reader would do that unless it also says “space” between every word. To a prior poster’s point, if the readers can be designed not to say “space” after every word they can certainly be designed not to say “space space” when two spaces follow a punctuation mark. Seems to me that low vision rights groups would have gone to the reader designers before trying to get organizations to adopt style guides.
Anon
The screen readers I have test driven ignore normal spacing between sentences, but sometimes note abnormal mechanics. I was instructed to avoid doing weird stuff just because of the way it looks.
Trish
This. Double spaces went out with mandatory nude hose. Both make us look old!
Anon
I used to have to remove every double space after a period from documents prepared by a former boss. You can always tell who learned how to type on typewriters.
Anon
I learned how to type on a typewriter and was grateful to be taught it (because I was a women and might need it, and shorthand, for my career as a secretary). My kids use two or maybe four fingers and have to look at the keyboard.
FWIW, I find “comma + space” and “period + two spaces” to be more aesthetically pleasing. The spaces are a longer pause, where the comma + space tells you not to loose too much speed as you are reading. Commas and periods are not so easily readable in smaller font sizes (was less of a problem where everything was in 12 point fonts), but in 9 or 10 point font, it really helps with readability.
K thx bye
Aunt Jamesina
Don’t most (all?) modern word processors automatically correct for spacing issues through kerning?
Anon
My sense is that it can vary by medium and also whether you fully-justify or just left-justify. I think that fully-justified type can look “nicer” but it can lead to too much white space that you can’t fix manually.
Anne-on
Ha, I joke with colleagues that I type so loudly (and quickly) because I learned as a small kid on an electric typewriter – you have to hit the keys MUCH harder and we had speed typing tests in elementary school where they covered the keys!
Anon
My parents had a manual typewriter (my mom had to type her resumes and my dad’s thesis — dad remains a two-finger typer). I learned on that and my As and commas were so faint b/c those are weak fingers. And my kids don’t get that key clash is why a typewriter has a QWERTY layout.
IDK how typewriters are in other countries. We have offices in Asia and IDK how typing works in something like Chinese or other languages that use different alphabets (especially picture-based writing systems (maybe not the right phrase)).
Curious
In Chinese, on smartphones, you type the pinyin and then choose the right character, I believe. No idea for previous typing paradigms.
Vicky Austin
This is also what you do in Japanese, I think.
Anonymous
I learned to type on a computer at a time when typewriters existed and I had to take a “typing” class on typewriters in middle school. I learned to type 2 spaces after periods. It wasn’t until maaaaybe 8 years ago that I learned there was a controversy. You do understand that typing is about muscle memory and changing something so fundamental is not easy after decades, right? Oh, no, you don’t, because you haven’t had that issue come up. It’s more challenging than learning to call a person “they” when that didn’t exist in parlance for the first 3 or 4 decades you spoke English. Just wait. You will see.
J am not arguing for 2 spaces or for 1, but using it to suggest someone is “wrong” is pretty ageist. I confess I am also ageist, though, which is probably why I wanted to write this comment.
PolyD
I learned to type on a typewriter, too, but haven’t had a problem adjusting to one space.
Plus it’s easy to correct. I edit some documents for my group, and some people space irregularly – one space sometimes, two spaces other – within the same document. So I do a search for “period space space” and replace with “period space.” This also works if you have titles in the document, like Mr. One Space.
My peeve, although it’s more style than grammar, is “in order to.” I cut it out of every draft of something I edit.
Anonymous
I agree it is easy to correct, and now I often do, but that is the very last step in editing.
NYNY
I work for an institution where everyone chooses to say “utilize” when “use’ is right there.
Vicky Austin
Oh my god, this might out me, but I used to work for a man who always said “perceive” when he meant “think.” “I perceive we should do X.” “I perceive you have missed something.” It made me batty.
PolyD
Ohhh, I hate utilize too!
Anonymous
I learned on a typewriter with two spaces and thought it would be challenging to switch to one space. But it actually came very quickly and easily.
Anon
I wouldn’t waste my passions on Oxford comma vs. no comma debate when, with increasing regularity, writers are not using commas between independent clauses in compound sentences. I do not mean short little two-word independent clauses; I mean full-on, complete-thought independent clauses. I read a lot of employee communications that are drafted by gigantic companies who ought to have People Who Know Better (Fidelity, I am looking at you), and the grammar, the punctuation and, worst of all, the complete lack of clarity is mind-boggling. I had to correct a very short employee communications piece recently for parallelism. Blatant parallelism fails. When I, a lawyer who writes fine print for a living, finds your employee communication wordy and obfuscating, you have a writing problem.
Anon
*find. When I find.
Anon
Our work people (midwest, US) insist on writing dates as Day Month Year. It is a bit loco in our area or like when Madonna (from Michigan, yo fellow midwesterner) went all Madge and started to sound British when we know she’s one of us. WE AINT IN EUROPE. I assume it’s comma-loathing (or comma insecurity, which I think is a thing now that no one learns grammar except via studying a foreign language and maybe not even then).
Anonymous
I hate misunderstandings about split infinitives, specifically when people “correct” my work to remove them or, worse, to remove what they interpret to be one that isn’t even a split infinitive.
Anonymous
Grammar and punctuation are two different things.
SFAttorney
Have you noticed the increasing use of “who” when talking about a company or other entity? This is most often in ads another oral communications, but I’ve seen it in writing too.
Seventh Sister
My teenager has been asking me to read over her papers. What drives me nuts is that she doesn’t seem to use commas. I can’t tell if this is her particular quirk or they just don’t use them. Maybe the don’t teach kids how to use commas.
FWIW, I’m a GenX who didn’t go to a very good public school so we got SOME grammar instruction and SOME whole language instruction. The problem I have as an adult is that while I can tell if something “sounds” wrong and might know the reason it sounds wrong, but I don’t have the specific expertise of someone who went to a parochial school where it was all grammar all the time. So I get anxious around the crowd that actually knows the difference between dashes and whatnot.
Anonymous
Lack of parallelism with bullet points. If the first three items are in imperative voice then the fourth should be as well. I also hate websites where capitalization and/or use of punctuation isn’t the consistent for the same hierarchy of heading.
Cb
What is everyone reading these days?
I finished Maggie O’Farrell’s The Marriage Portrait – gorgeous
Kamila Shamsi’s Best of Friends – just finished at lunchtime and the ending, oof…
and am starting Elif Batuman’s Either/Or after loving (but also cringing my way through The Idiot)
Vicky Austin
I finally got the Tom Bower Harry & Meghan book from the library and I am sipping all the tea.
Anokha
I just started The Palace Papers, and I am giving a lot of side eye at Tina Brown’s choice of phrasing!
Cat
I’m debating whether to also order the Courtiers book that came out – they have actual email traffic receipts.
Anon
I saw a snippet of that on Twitter and yikes – cultural differences are one thing but emails about your staff being afraid to be around you because they’ll be screamed at is another thing. I can’t imagine a much more stressful situation than marrying into the royal family, but it sounds like that stress was taken out on employees and there’s no justification for that.
Anon
I loved the marriage portrait!!
Anon
I’ve been on an Agatha Christie binge. They are really so good, especially the female characters.
Pep
I’m currently just a few chapters in to The Marriage Portrait! Enjoying it so far.
Anon
“Inventing George Washington” – it’s a fun, quick read about how all of our national myths about GW came to be – the cherry tree, the praying in the snow at Valley Forge, etc.
Anon
Oooh, I want to read this. I’m a descendant of one of his first biographers (Mason Weems).
Anon
The author talks a fair amount about Weems – I just can’t remember if it’s favorable or not. He’s pretty tough on the early authors who just made stuff up, so I don’t recall how your ancestor is treated ha.
Anon
I think he totally made stuff up…at least that is the family story lol
Anonanon
This sounds very interesting!
Honey
Loved loved loved True Biz recently!
Anne-on
I enjoyed the Change, Acts of Violet (though not as much as Oona Out of Order), This Time Tomorrow (more poignant if you’re roughly of the same generation and have lost a parent), and Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow. Flying Solo and When Women Were Dragons were also quite good, though lighter reads overall.
anon
Confidence Man: The Making of Donald Trump and the Breaking of America. Probably not what you’re looking for to relax however.
Anon
I just finished 3 books of the Neapolitan Quartet and am about to start the 4th this weekend… it really is amazing!
I also am reading Laura Vanderkam’s new book, and I really like it. Like many here, I can’t with the podcast/blog, but I’ve found a lot of her books really helpful.
Anokha
I adored the Neapolitan Quartet.
Anon
Same! I read a ton (over 100 books a year) and I think this series is going to be my favorite of this year! I always pick a favorite each year.
Anonymous
(all romance)
loved loved loved Love on the Brain by Ali Hazelwood; read it in like 18 hours.
Really liking In a Jam by Canterbary right now, I think it’s KU.
Listening to The Hookup Plan by Rochan, also good.
Anon
Not sure if many of you like horror, but I just finished “The Deep” by Nick Cutter. I can’t quite decide how I felt about it, but when I finished I was like “Um what did I just do to myself???”
I just started “Dark Matter” by Blake Crouch.
Anon
Dark Matter is so fun!
Anonymous
Even better than dark matter is recursion ! Love those books
Anon
Recursion is fantastic. I didn’t like Upgrade as much.
Senior Attorney
I’m about a third of the way into Shrines of Gaiety by Kate Atkinson and enjoying it a lot.
Also just tore my way through the Wayfarer sci-fi series by Becky Chambers and they were super fun. First one is The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet.
Also really enjoyed Fairy Tale by Stephen King. Not nearly as nasty/painful as a lot of his books.
Jules
Wait, what? Kate Atkinson has a new book out? I love everything she has written.
Anon
I read this Kate Atkinson book a couple weeks ago, thought it was okay, and now I can’t remember a single thing about it. It’s just completely vanished from my brain. So maybe not one of her better efforts, though, if you like her work generally I’m sure you’ll enjoy it while you read it.
Jules
Disappointing to hear, but thanks for the info. I’ve got some travel coming up, so this might be good for an airplane read, at least.
Knope2022
I just read Tooth & Claw this week and LOVED LOVED LOVED it. Not new, but I highly recommend it, especially for people who aren’t typical fantasy readers. (I got into it after reading When Women Were Dragons and it was suggested as another nonconventional dragon/feminist book :) )
Anonforthis
I too loved that book.
Curious
Books by VE Schwab, recommended here on another thread. Fantasy, deals with trauma too.
Vicky Austin
Ooh, A Darker Shade of Magic was fun on audio as my dog-walking book in the spring.
Explorette
Cloud Cuckoo Land. It’s not an easy read as there is a lot going on and can be kind of sad, but the writing is amazing.
AcademicDoc
Does anyone have layering t-shirts or turtlenecks that they really like? To go under sweaters and the like…
Chl
The jcrew tissue turtleneck is my go to.
Monday
The Big Favorite, 100% cotton and they recycle everything. I can really feel the quality (which justifies the price for me).
Cat
I like the JCrew tissue turtleneck but wear it under blazer type looks, not sweaters. Turtleneck under a crewneck takes me straight back to School Picture Day in 1994.
Anon
If there’s a Muji store near you, they sell short sleeve undershirts that I live in all winter long. They are cotton and scoop neck so they don’t show under sweaters and mean I don’t have to wash my sweaters very often. I think they are $10-15 for pack of 2. I don’t see them online. Uniqlo used to have similar (but thinner ones) but I haven’t seen them in years (only their airism/heattech stuff, but I prefer the cotton).
Anon
Uniqlo has a bunch of cotton heattech (I think starting last year).
Anon @11:07
Good to know!
ANON
Target actually has great ones right now. I have three different colors, one a slightly different style, and have worn all three this week under various blazers!
Anonymous
Co-sign. I like the New Day tshirts. So soft, good drape. I wear them alone or under jackets/ sweaters.
Anonymous
I like Talbots turtlenecks for casual layering
Anon
Lands End
Tell me about your favorite sweatpants
With winter drawing near, I need some new sweatpants, for lounging around the house, sleeping in, maybe taking the dog for a late-night walk. What are your favorite cozy sweatpants? Bonus points if they are flattering (inasmuch as sweatpants can be) and suitable for petites. Thanks!
anon
Alo Yoga 7-8 sweatpants (slash instead of dash). They’re very flattering on a pear shape and they fit my stubby lil legs like normal length pants.
Anne-on
I hate that I love them so much as they’re $$ but the Lululemon joggers in ‘scuba’ are SO warm and cozy and yet look moderately pulled together if you wear them out (the curved leg is really flattering).
Laura
I really like the Gap vintage joggers! They’re very soft and comfy but also flattering and you can wear them to throw out the trash or buy milk.
Anon
I live in Vuori sweats in fall.
Anon
I bought the Quince heavyweight cotton sweatpants for $40. They are cozy and somewhat loose fitting but not sloppy. I’m 5’3 and they don’t really bag around the ankle.
Anon
Vuori. I bought multiple pairs in mid 2020 and I’ve lounged and worked in them, exercised in them, and used them as travel pajamas, and they look like new, no pilling, and are incredibly soft. Worth every penny. Machine wash cold, hang to dry except in special “I need these fast” circumstances.
Anon
There are multiple styles of Vuori joggers. Which one(s) do you recommend?
Hootster
Not the poster above, but I live in Vuori Performance Joggers
Anon
OP here, late reply, but yes, the performance ones made of Dreamknit – the regular ones are shorter with a 25 inch inseam so might do well for petites.
Anonymous
I have the performance joggers too but I wouldn’t call them “cozy” or super warm for winter.
And mine pilled like crazy! And only in 3 months of infrequent wear and washing on cold/line drying. Tiny pills on both inside and outside.
I have the sage green color if that makes a difference.
Vicky Austin
In case anyone wants a follow up on that awards dinner I was thinking about wearing red shoes to, my husband said that the person he asked about the dress code said, “Business casual/cocktail attire.”
So, uh, I think my red shoes will probably be okay. But I will absolutely be getting a pair of proper nice black shoes soon, promise!
Curious
Keep us posted! The Red Shoe Controversy is high on my interest list, lol.
Vicky Austin
Just for you, I will! Esp given the range in my below response…
Anonymous
That’s such an annoying dress code description. Yes business casual and c!cktail attire might be very similar for MEN – just wear a suit or slacks and blazer – but there is a huge world of difference for women.
Vicky Austin
Exactly. I’d be interested to hear the person’s definition for each of those terms! DH and I discussed the coworkers who are also attending. One person’s husband is a farmer and is almost certainly going to show up in his Nice Jeans, and somebody else, according to DH, might literally show up in a floor length gown. Suffice it to say it’s open to interpretation!
Anonymous
I think “business casual/c-tail” means the mythical “desk to dinner” outfit that all young women used to be told they’d need but is virtually never called for in real life.
Friday
Any recs for comfortable ankle boots? Prefer black and low heel (2″ or less). Genuine leather preferred but ok with suede
Clementine
I swear by Blondo booties in the winter. Warm, waterproof, lots of block heeled and wedge heeled options. I usually just look at Nordstrom Rack.
Anon
I really wanted to like these, but gave up after ordering and returning several pairs in different styles and sizes. They were really nice, but every pair was too big in the heel and I don’t think I would have have been able to wear them comfortably. I liked the look, but I think they actually needed more shaping or some buckles or something to make them stay on my feet. So just a warning, if you have triangle feet like me!
anon
I got a pair from Rockport a couple of years ago. They are from Zappos. I tried Blondo, but unfortunately they were a bit narrow for my feet.
Anon
Paul Green.
Anonymous
Vionics. Very comfortable.
Anonymous
Ecco is my go-to for ankle boots.
anon
my Sam Edelman’s have held up remarkably well and are very comfy.
Anonymous
For those in the DC area or who know the DC area, is there a good place to drive around to look at foliage? I’m interested in a drive, rather than hiking. More interested on the Va. side if possible. All I know of in Va.is Shenandoah, though given that I live in Arlington and want to do this as maybe a half day activity, I feel like I’d be driving all that way to maybe drive to the tip of Shenandoah. Though correct me if I’m wrong on that. I’m happy to do this on a weekday morning or afternoon so crowds or traffic aren’t a huge concern.
Anon
Great Falls Park if you don’t want to go far.
emeralds
Take Route 50 west and enjoy driving through all the horse country, maybe stop for a snack or coffee in Middleburg. Continue on Route 50 to the turn for Route 17, and then take Route 17 back to 66–it’s closer than Shenandoah and you’ll get some really beautiful views, plus you can stop for a walk at Sky Meadows State Park if you end up wanting to stretch your legs, or you could stop at one of the plentiful wineries that will also allow you to sit on a deck, sip something pleasant, and enjoy the foliage.
Anon100
This is a bit farther out than Shenandoah, but the George Washington & Jefferson National Forests are free, extremely pretty this time of year, and almost empty compared to Shenandoah.
Anon
Head out to Harper’s Ferry
Anonymous
Loudoun County is extremely pretty this time of year, plus there are several great wineries in the area.
If you do venture out towards Shenandoah and GWJNF as the other poser suggests, Massanutten Storybook trail is a 0.5 mi “hike” of mostly boardwalk and paved sections leading to a spectacular view.
Anonymous
How many people here have any type of side income in addition to their regular jobs? I’m curious about anything from an investment portfolio that isn’t retirement that throws off x thousand per year in dividends to rental property income to taking on extra consulting projects after work to being a lawyer by day who knits blankets and sells them on the weekends. If you’re willing to share, it’d be interesting to hear how much you’re making and how it compares to your job income. Overall though – is it something that’s worthwhile to you, are you glad you did it, or has it become a chore?
Anon
I like drawing as a hobby. I have a very small Etsy shop where I sell prints that nets about $5k a year. I usually treat it as my vacation fund. It works because it’s totally automated (I use a print on demand service that handles printing and shipping) except for the drawing, which I would do anyway for fun. I might be able to scale it but I’d have to start putting a lot of time into social media and craft booths and such, which would be less enjoyable and manageable.
NYC
That’s awesome! I love hearing of an artist making some profit!
Jules
Tell us the name of your shop!
Anonymous
interesting – i just looked at my dividends, which are automatically reinvested so I never really notice them.
with one broker I made dividends of about $5500 on $462K of non-retirement investments.
with a second broker I made dividends of $4000 on $423k of non-retirement investments.
curious how other people’s are – i’m mostly in index funds and tech stocks.
Anonymous
Small stuff: I sell my and my kids’ clothes on Mercari. This is maybe $500/year.
Bigger stuff: dividends- I have a couple of high dividend stocks (JNJ is one) and it’s a few thousand a year.
This one isn’t exactly income but DH and I do a LOT of our reno DIY which this year saved us $20k when we re did our kitchen. This year our house had a flood and we repaired it largely ourselves and put the insurance check in the bank. We had a $55k claim and ended up pocketing about $25k (and spending all our free time laboring).
Anon
I’m not doing this as much anymore because of time constraints, but I’m a lawyer who does one-off teaching gigs (trial skills, depositions) for compensation. There are a couple of organizations you can do this with, but you usually have to start off teaching in a voluntary capacity.
still not April Whittier
I have two romance novels out with a smaller press, and am currently on submission for a third book. My first book was published in early 2022 and the second came out more recently, so I’ve only had two royalty cycles and they only account for one book, but so far I’ve grossed about $3,700. (I didn’t get an advance.)
It’s been nice to discover that people like my art enough to pay money for it, since like the anon who draws I’d be writing anyway. On the other hand, the publishing industry is a total nightmare and it’s taking real effort to keep it from sucking all the joy out of my creative practice, to say nothing about the horrifying ratio of time and effort to money. Clearly, I make significantly less from writing than I do from my day job.
I also have a small investment portfolio (~$22k split between index funds and one stock that I got as a graduation present) that throws off a few bucks every year, but like Anonymous it all automatically reinvests so I don’t notice it.
Jules
Congrats on the books!
Someone on the afternoon post asked about romance writers – post your name (or pen name) there!
Anonymous
We have rental condos, but only because my husband has time to manage them. As a lawyer my schedule is too demanding.
AnonQ
I do some freelance writing for an industry site (law). As a nonpracticing lawyer, I like that it keeps my lawyer brain fresh (it is substantive work, not marketing type writing). I spend 2-3 hrs a week and pull in about a grand a month. It supplements my FT income nicely and I enjoy the work.
ALT
Not a lawyer, but i work retail on the weekends. The extra ~$600 per month is helpful for paying down debt (my main goal in getting a part time job). The store discount is also nice for things I end up needing (or wanting).
Anon.
Rental income of in total about $30k net.
We own an apartment in a big European city where my family lives (about $20k gross revenue, no mortgage), and a commercial rental property (doctor’s office) in my husband’s hometown in the same country (about $25k gross revenue, small mortgage).
Anon.
Oh, and HHI is ~$300k pre-tax, so rental income is not about 10% of HHI as of now. We intend to hold the rentals for as long as we can, possibly well into retirement, as the apartment as an asset will also appreciate in this particular city, and the doctor’s office is providing very stable cash flow.
Senior Attorney
I have a rental property that makes a small profit most years. Last year it was about $6,000 or $500/month. I have great tenants and a good roster of tradespeople to take care of it, so there’s not really much for me to do.
Also years ago I taught a kids’ karate class and that was a lot of fun although the pay was peanuts. Don’t even remember how much but in the very low three figures a month.
Curious
Teaching kids karate is now on my list of goals, though my green belt is a decade old, and I doubt I remember the first kata. Fun!
Anonymous
A source in the know recently told me that one can earn in the low five figures as a part-time paid church choir singer. I would have to give up my much-loved volunteer gig to do this but man is it tempting.
Anon
I’d give up the volunteer gig in a heartbeat. I don’t volunteer my time, I make money with it and donate instead.
Anonymous
I’m not a huge dinner person. I often just snack or don’t eat dinner at all. Im looking for something that is light and nutritious to eat for dinner on nights I’d otherwise just have some cheese and crackers and call it a night.
Anon
Peanut butter on whole wheat toast, maybe add some fruit.
OP
Oh I love the idea of “breakfast for dinner”! I’ve recently started eating heartier breakfasts (veggie heavy quiches) and so I could use some of my former healthy but lighter breakfast options (oatmeal + fruit + nuts for protein, toast + PB + fruit, chia pudding + fruit). Especially because they’re all either quick to cook or things that can be prepped.
Formerly Lilly
As a variation on that, my favorite juice bar sells a toasted piece of whole grain bread with a thin smear of almond butter, a scattering of blueberries and pieces of banana, almond slivers, a sprinkling of cacao nibs, and a little drizzle of honey. It’s very tasty and makes a good light meal.
OP
Love that. Thanks!
Vicky Austin
Crudite with hummus, or I like to buy the ranch seasoning packets, decant into a spice bottle, and sprinkle it into Greek yogurt to my taste.
Also, cheese and crackers is not un-nutritious! But I get wanting to add some color to it.
OP
I”m fine with cheese and crackers on occasion (usually Monday or Tuesday if I have leftovers from hosting people over the weekend, while watching the Bachelor with some friends) but for me it can’t be a regular option. I’m working really hard to build my meals around vegetables or fruit and add in a good protein option + a whole grain.
Vicky Austin
What about avocado toast? Veggie egg scramble? I love quiche + salad for a light dinner.
OP
I’m all for avocado toast! Veggie heavy quiches are actually what I eat for breakfast, so I don’t want to double that up.
Anonymous
Yes – I love this with smoked salmon as a topper…
Clementine
I get this – I like a mug of veggie-filled soup alongside my cheese and crackers.
And – and yes, this maybe isn’t the most balanced thing – I will often eat just a bowl of cauliflower rice or roasted broccoli with garlic or (if I’m feeling energetic) do fried cauliflower rice with a salmon burger and an egg chopped up in it.
I don’t like feeling overly full when I go to sleep, so I tend to eat early and veggie forward at dinner.
OP
Good call – I usually have a few types of soup in my freezer as it’s my go to lunch option. On weeks I don’t make soup for lunch, I can definitely have leftover soups as my dinner.
If it’s veggie heavy I’m okay with it being less balanced! I just don’t want cheese and crackers with veggies :)
Anon
Soup is a good option
OP
In the fall/winter, soup is often what I eat for lunch. I like soup, but not enough for it to be 2 meals a day. I could definitely add soup for dinner on weeks I make something else for lunch though.
No Face
It’s not a “dinner” meal, but I think avocado toast with bacon, freshly cracked pepper, and hot sauce is very satisfying.
OP
Sounds delish, thanks!
Anonymous
Cheese and crackers – though I add something like roasted peppers to that to get some vegetables in.
Anon
I am working to become very veggie focused (not in the plant based sense, but making sure half of my plate is always a vegetable). So, in the beginning of the week I will make a big batch of veggies (usually roasted mixed veg or a heaping option of steamed broccoli or green beans) and a small portion of something easy but fun (usually pasta). I make the proportions so that my meal will be like 75% veg and 25% pasta and then each night I’ll just heat that up.
So, this week I have a LOT of steamed broccoli with lemon and then a pasta I made (50% whole wheat pasta, 50% chickpea pasta, easy tomato cream sauce, a little bit of ground turkey) so my dinner is a nice mix of vegetables, whole grains, and lean protein and fat.
I make sure my breakfast and lunches are very balanced to ensure a good overall balance throughout the day.
pugsnbourbon
I am extremely lazy. When I’m cooking for just myself, I’ll default to those steam-in-the-bag veggies with a fried egg on top and a generous amount of parmesan.
Vicky Austin
This sounds really good, no joke.
Anonymous
Roasted vegetables (I just throw a mess of them on a sheet pan on the weekend) plus tomato sauce and some beans on the side.
I also do a protein shake or yogurt parfait after an evening workout.
Anon
An over-medium egg on a slice of very grainy/seeded toast, plus a pear this time of year.
Or if you’re into kicking it old-school, a mound of cottage cheese with one of the following: chopped tomato with lots of salt and pepper, canned peaches in light syrup, or some cut up honeydew melon. All really good combinations.
Senior Attorney
This isn’t super nutritious, but when Hubby isn’t home for dinner I’ll often make pan-fried ramen: Boil the noodles without the seasoning but with some chopped up kale, drain. Add the seasoning packet (I like chili flavor), stir. Plop the whole mess into a lightly greased skillet until light brown, flip over, cook until the other side is light brown. Sprinkle chopped green onions on top before serving. Yum.
Senior Attorney
You can add a fried egg on top, too.
Anon
I am starting to get into baking. I live alone and have a small kitchen and don’t have much of a sweet tooth or patience, so am struggling to think of good options for me. I made apple crisp a few weeks ago which I love, but want to try some variety. I like the idea of things I can freeze, so I don’t have to commit to a whole batch for myself. But, I feel like a lot of those recipes are for cookies and I don’t love cookies.
Vicky Austin
Do you like coffee cake, muffins, scones? Those freeze like a dream and you can then treat yourself to a warm, homemade breakfast on days when the green mermaid is beckoning.
PolyD
Days when the green mermaid is beckoning???
Vicky Austin
Starbucks haha
Away Game
Breads. Make small loaves, or rolls, and freeze. You can also do savory biscuits, savory scones, and pies/quiches, many of which will freeze. Caramelized onion tart with goat cheese is fantastic for pretty much any fall meal and will keep in the fridge for a few days.
Anon
Muffins and bread. Easy to freeze and easy to make healthy versions with whole grains, nuts, fruit, and seeds, if that’s what you like.
Anon
Make pumpkin apple muffins this weekend! There’s a ton of recipes online but I always use the Libby’s ones. They are delicious and store well in the fridge or freezer.
Clementine
Okay, you want to be a hero, do something nice AND get all the baked goods out of the house so you only eat a normal portion? Roll up to your local homeless shelter/day center with a plate of whatever you just made.
(Around the holidays, they get several big plates of my kids’ Christmas cookie creations and a shopping bag filled with athletic socks and it’s my favorite way to teach my kids charitable giving.)
Clementine
Longer comment in mod but if you ever need to give away baked goods, my local homeless shelter is thrilled if I just drop by a big plate of whatever.
Anonymous
Bread freezes well, just slice it before freezing.
Anon
The Silver Palate brownie recipe, for seriously chocolate, very fudgey brownies. This divides so you can make a full recipe, a half batch, or even a quarter batch. Do not overbake. These also keep very well in the freezer—bake, cut (small), freeze and grab one whenever the urge hits.
Vicky Austin
Frozen brownies are god tier brownies.
Anon
A frequent breakfast for me, as I always have them in the freezer.
Anon
I am the same way. I dont have a big sweet tooth and am not a fan of cake. For the occasional cookie craving, I buy store bought since that’s so much more variety. That’s why I prefer cooking to baking. I’m a lot more interested in the results. And have to be less painstaking with measuring the ingredients and such – I can just throw things together, simmer, squeeze some lemon on top!
little baker mouse
Gougeres! Dorie Greenspan explains how to freeze the dough, so you can have warm gougeres anytime. You can do the same with the choux dough that is the base for cream puffs, profiteroles, eclairs, etc.
You can pre-make balls of pastry dough (sweet short crust for sweet tarts, galettes, savory for quiches and savory tarts), and keep them in the freezer. if you’re making a tart or galette for just one person, you can make smaller dough balls to yield smaller tarts.
Also, homemade cheese crackers — or any variety of cracker, really, though these keep well in tins, you may not even need to freeze them.
Anon
I do that with gougeres and love having a batch in the freezer.
BB
Get 6″ cake pans! (if you’re into baking cakes) I am similar and am in a 2 person household. 6″ cakes are great for like 4 portions, and you basically just halve a 9″ cake recipe to fit. Also, cakes freeze very well.
Anon
This is a great idea! How do you adjust the baking time, if at all?
Anonymous
Foccacia
Lentil loaf
Brioche
Tortillas
Quiche or other savoury pastries
Anonymous
I’ve just recently started cutting back by baking in smaller dishes. For instance, I have a 9 x 6 Pyrex pan which is not a huge adjustment from an 8 x 8 pan It seems to be working fine. You do have to adjust cooking time and temperature a little bit, but those calculations are available online.
Anon
There’s a new cookbook out called Savory Baking that may be what you need!
Anon
I have an exempt employee who is compensated well, but is on call basically all the time. He is the building manager and has to handle emergency calls, system outages, etc. He expressed that he did not feel fairly compensated for this additional work. I am trying to determine what is fair that I can then take to HR. I don’t want to open up a can of worms. I do truly feel his situation is one of maybe two (3?) in our company that has to be available to work nearly constantly. Does anyone else supervise someone in a similar position? Does this position receive any perks beyond pay?
Anon
I work like this for half of the month and don’t feel bad doing whatever I want to during the other half of the month (oil change, hair cut, etc.). Married to someone who is on-call for natural disasters in our area, so it is a thing for many industries.
Anon
LIBERAL FLEX TIME WHEN NOT ACTUALLY DOING THINGS.
Anon
If he’s well compensated then it sounds like having to be available so often is just part of the job. Is there a backup person that can be on call for emergencies some nights? Is he looking for just better compensation or less need to be available all the time? With building managers and supers, this is kind of just part of the job.
Anon
I worked in government in a department where we were all on call (luckily on a 1 of every 3 week rotation, but our on call regulations were very strict and very much intrusive into living a normal life). We were not compensated for being on call, but did receive OT if we had to come into work while on call. Over 60% of our staff left in 2 years and many cited the on call requirement and lack of compensation for being on call as a reason for leaving. We made the same (paltry government) salary as other departments who worked a true 35 hour week with no after hours or on call requirements.
All that to say, perks will not make up for this inequity. Yes, it might just be a requirement of the position but he should be compensated appropriately.
Anon
Yes, this is extremely stressful. I’m also in a government job where being “on all” comes with the territory and people know about it going in, and we still get a lot of turnover as a result. Regularly having your weekends or evenings interrupted with work is not worth it.
What do you guys do when he is on scheduled vacation? How often is he actually called in? Could the on-call responsibilities be split among several employees?
Anon
This is OP.
Those are good question. Right now, despite my telling him not to, he typically works when he is sick or on vacation. Sometimes, he hands it off to someone else. One challenge is that he doesn’t like anyone else doing the work (touching the building systems, for example).
Anon
This is unacceptable. He needs a backup and he needs to be able to cede control. Making sure he accepts that is part of managing him.
Anon
Also, what are the requirements of his on call? At my old job we had to be within a certain distance of the office at all times when on call, could not drink a drop of alcohol, were expected to be available 24/7 and to respond to the office if something was happening for an untold amount of time (a father of young children got called to come in at 4AM on Christmas morning, I once worked from 11PM – 4AM and had to come back to the office again at 9 for normal work), expected to pickup on first ring no matter what (I know someone who was written up for missing a call when she was in the shower, she called back within 5 mins and was still written up), needed to carry gear with/near us (so couldn’t be running errands and head straight to the office, but also if we went home to get gear and then went to office we’d be over our time limit for responding), had to use a company car but also could only use the company car to travel between work and home (no stopping for groceries on the way home).
So, for 1 week of very 3 I did not socialize, I did not run errands, I did not go for a run, I did not go to a workout class. I was even nervous to like throw a roast in the oven, lest I get called out while it was still cooking.
So, I would build AS MUCH flexibility into his being on call as possible. That definitely would have gone a long way (along with compensation for being on call)
Anon
Does dude ever get a vacation? Like one when he can book plane tickets and go 10 hours away and turn off his phone? If there should be shifts of this job (so he is on-call 12 hours/day * 7 days) and someone who lets him actually take his vacation / weekends / doctor visits, and there isn’t, he is doing 2+ jobs for one job of pay.
Anon
Wow — what sort of job is this? Now that I am settled into a job, I am sort of fascinating about all that is out there is the world that I have no idea about.
Anonymous
I am a small city emergency manager and my on call regulations are similar. And I make 55k. With a masters.
Anon
That is insane! My father was a pediatrician and on call a few times a month where he would be woke up in the middle of the night, etc, but he certainly wasn’t making 55k! That’s absolutely insane! You can stock shelves at a supermarket for that salary. Not a diss to you in any way! Just saying you should be compensated better, especially with such an important job and a masters!!
Anon
I’m a homicide prosecutor and our call is similar, but it’s 24 hours at a time and only about once a month, so it’s not nearly as bad. A whole week is rough! I’m always on edge the whole time I’m on call.
Anon
55k is over $26 an hour assuming 40 hours a week and working 52 weeks a year. I agree that the prior poster sounds vastly underpaid, but there’s nowhere that you can stock supermarket shelves for that kind of money.
Anon
OP here. He is not required to come in to the building (generally) or not have a drink. It would likely be an issue if he was drunk, but then I would expect he wouldn’t pick up. We do have someone else we could call if he didn’t pick up. Luckily for him, most of his work can be done via a computer (building systems are amazing) or he is referring things to people who are on site. We have folks on his team on site from 7am-2am, so there is very little that occurs in that 5 hour window.
Anon
You really need HR consultation on this. On-call employee compensation can get very complex; there are some specific rules that need to be followed to be compliant with the FLSA. Unless compensation is your area of expertise, you need advisement here. Contact HR and explain the situation before you get yourself and your company into legal trouble.
Anon
I feel like this is not just HR, but in-house counsel on this also. Most HR people would not be able to get this right and I’d expect them to need guidance / legal advice.
Anon
+2. There’s at least one case on the books that a building manager is non-exempt. You need counsel to weigh in and assess whether he is properly classified.
Anon
He is definitely exempt. I am not concerned about his FLSA status, but I appreciate that!
Anon
You and HR may have him classified as exempt and might be wrong. We had a guy like this, a chief engineer, and I realized he was misclassified for years. How are the other 2 or 3 people compensated for this? Do they also have no backup? I’d bring this to Hr and your employment counsel and see what the options are.
Anon
What happens when he is out of town? There should never be a single point of failure of this – because it is unfair to him and also because you’re SOL if he’s away. So, incorporate what you do as the backup plan into a more frequent option. Have him share this duty with others. And provide perks to everyone who has to cover it.
Anon
My org has a big problem with having many areas where there is a single point of failure. We are a traffic accident or heart attack away from major bad stuff happening (and yet no one cares or even listens when it’s brought up). Even COVID didn’t change it (we can’t go on-site if anyone in the household has COVID and yet that hasn’t been brought up as something we need to plan for).
pugsnbourbon
Soooooo many places operate like this. At my last job our little sub-department made a point to keep each other up-to-date on our projects in case one of us won the lottery and never came back.
Anon
As someone who had a really strenuous, stressful on-call component and worked for the same compensation as those who didn’t… I feel passionately about this. Generous flexibility/flex time when not on call, some sort of financial compensation, making the on-call requirements as reasonable as possible, and most importantly: BACKUP so he is not shouldering this solo.
Anonymous
Well for starters he is probably misclassified as exempt.
Anonymous
When my husband was an engineer he was also “on call” for a client 24×7. I think his firm put in the security system at the airport so when it had an issue the electricians couldn’t figure out they called the engineering firm.
He was paid a salary but when he took calls outside his normal business hours he billed them (4 hour minimum). So his biweekly paycheck would say “80 hours” normally paid out at whatever his salary /2080 was, then on weeks he took a call, it would say “84” or “88.”
If that model doesn’t work, you could allow for an “on call” bonus of $X whenever he has to take a call outside work hours.
Anon
Oh man I used to work in IT communications. I had to be on call every third week and it was really stressful just having to worry about a middle of the night phone call or canceling plans with friends, even though it rarely happened (maybe once a year or so I had something that really disrupted my life). This job sounds completely miserable. Also what happens when this guy gets sick or takes a vacation!?
anon DC
For yesterday’s Diwali poster –
How about mendhi? It can get messy with a toddler, but just a tiny bit might be fun. I would make rangolis (i use washable fingerpaint and make designs on the porch), paint diyas, go on a nature walk and collect pretty leaves, dress up in fancy Indian clothes with all the jewelry, order fancy Indian food and feast! We also read the kids version of the Ramayan and watch the Diwali episode of Sesame Street. Hope you have a wonderful weekend! Happy Diwali!
Anokha
For Diwali: Circa age 5, we introduced “Ramayana: Divine Loophole (Hindu Mythology Books, Books on Hindu Gods and Goddesses, Indian Books for Kids)” by Sanjay Patel to my daughter, and she loved it!
Also, I didn’t know there was a Diwali episode of Sesame Street and will absolutely check it out :)
Anon
For people with cars, what does your insurance coverage look like? We’re paying about $1500 for 2 cars. We have liability + a collision/comprehensive deductible of $500. I have no idea if this is good or if we’re overpaying.
Anon
It’s hard to compare because there are so many variables!
FWIW (probably not much) I pay nearly $700 a year for liability only (but higher than minimum liability) on my 19 year old clunker (hence no collision) in Philadelphia. Clean driving record.
Anon
$1500 a year? Very cheap. $1500 a month? Very expensive. For reference, my insurance for one recent model nicer end vehicle is around $800-900ish for six months.
Anon
Very cheap and make sure you have decent liability coverage limits. My guess is you don’t with that rate.
Anonymous
Friday vent…. Does anyone feel like the have a large pop culture blind spot? Do you do anything to try to minimize it? I have one… I’m just not a music person. I’ll listen to it if it’s playing, I appreciate the skill, talent and work ethic /hustle it takes to have a career in music. I went to band sleep away camp for multiple years as a kid (It was fine). Now days, I’d rather listen to talk radio or a podcast over music in the car. I don’t like listening to music while I work out. I can also listen to a song a hundred times and still not know the name or artist because it’s just not information I seem to be able to retain. I also. Any see myself ever spending money to go to a concert…. That’s just does not appeal to me.
I work with a group of people who are crazy into music, including discovering bands, playing instruments, debating which artist is the best at X, comparing lists of the all time best album covers… and I have a 100+ text message thread with close friends of comments and initial thoughts on a Taylor swift album. I feel like if you don’t like sports, or you don’t follow celebrity gossip, that’s totally fine and people don’t consider that really to be a blind spot. Meanwhile, I get horrified looks that I don’t yet have “thoughts” on Taylor swifts album or that I can’t name a Van Halen song. I am a real estate lawyer, so knowing nuances of music is not critical, or even related, to my job. However, I feel like I Should be working to fix this so it’s not such an “OMG! how is that even possible!!” Moment anytime it comes up. Vent over. Thanks for reading of yoh made it this far.
Anon
I’ve never intentionally listened to a Taylor Swift song and am not sure I could name one. Nothing against her, but it’s not my type of music. I occasionally listen to some of the same stuff I listened to in HS, but don’t really put any energy into discovering new music. My partner loves music and I go to concerts with him because he wants to go, but I wouldn’t have chosen that as an activity on my own.
I also don’t watch TV or go to the movies unless my partner wants to go, or it’s part of a Girls Night Out thing. I usually enjoy it once I’m there but I never think of it as something that I would want to do. I don’t follow sports but I enjoy watching live soccer games and will go with my partner or friends.
I’m completely left out of a lot of conversations but that’s totally fine with me. At some point I realized I was too old to worry about this and I just… stopped. There’s lots of things that I’m interested in that most people are not, and I don’t expect them to discuss my interest if they don’t share it, so I figure the reverse is true. I still have friends and colleagues who seem to like me!
PolyD
I’m wondering how old you are..
Probably by the time I was in my 30s, I just didn’t care. I don’t know a lot about music, I don’t read a lot of bestsellers (although I do read a lot), and I’m not into super hero movies or sports. Now at 55, I hardly recognize anyone in People magazine.
And it’s fine. I am interested in plenty of other things and have no problem hanging with friends or chatting with random people. Some of my friends are very into super hero movies and I listen when they talk about them, and sometimes hear something interesting, but not enough to watch any of the movies.
I do feel like music people are gonna music – get them started and they won’t shut up about music. And let them be horrified – hell, I was famous in my dorm back in the mid 1980s because I’d never heard Stairway to Heaven or certain Beatles songs. Whatever.
So I guess, if it’s something you genuinely want to learn more about, learn more! If not, it’s okay to have your own interests.
Anonymous
Nah just ignore it.
Trish
My husband can’t tell the difference between Jessica Simpson and Lisa Simpson.
Anon
I grew up in a religious household that didn’t permit secular music, or R-rated movies, or any TV deemed “inappropriate.” Also didn’t have cable. Because of it, I’m just not really that into music/movies/tv and definitely don’t get a lot of pop culture references, because I’ve just never seen so many shows and movies. I don’t care and never think twice about it.
startup lawyer
Movies. I am not that into movies and most people my age or above love to make references to 80s or 90s movies.
I am perfectly happy to give a blank face and say I’ve never watched them. IDK your background but I also think that the general assumption that every would be into a certain pop culture thing is exclusionary. Like, yea? I’ve never listened to van halen but I don’t gasp when you don’t know a Jay-z lyric I might reference. Being judgmental about cultural consumption past the age of 20 is pathetic.
Anon
I’m not a music person either! I listen to some current artists like Adele, Lizzo, Taylor Swift, but most of my music is Broadway musicals, music pre-2000, or classical. When I’m in a car and the radio is playing I have no effing clue who any of the singers are.
Anon
I was raised in a household with no television. While there is a tv in my home now, but I honestly do not know how to turn it on as my spouse has it hooked to a remote that works multiple devices. I don’t listen to music on the radio or by streaming. My recent music knowledge is limited to what I have heard in fitness classes. You do not want me on your team for trivia night. But still, she persisted . . . .
anon
This is a weird coincidence in your social circle. I don’t know anyone who regularly brings up music in conversation. I’m the same way as you- I prefer podcasts for background noise or silence. I like music for working out or certain car rides but my playlists have older songs and that’s fine. Personally I don’t think music provides anything interesting to discuss. Books, movies, tv, sports, etc. have layers that can spark conversation. Music is one hundred percent subjective and a matter of personal taste. I don’t understand how your friends and coworkers can blab about music for hours so just tune it out and know that you’re perfectly normal.
Explorette
Same. No one I know has brought up the new Taylor Swift album. And I doubt it will come up. Your friends share a passion for music. Fine if that’s not your thing. Certainly don’t spend time and energy trying to get up to speed on a subject you are not interested in. Life is too short for that!
theguvnah
I think there’s a difference between not being into current pop culture and simply not being into music. I fully get not being into pop culture, which also now is so diffuse it’s a very different experience then 30 years ago.
But music in general? I don’t really get not having any affinity for it. Music has always been important to me and I have always been confused by? curious about? people who don’t seem “into” music at all – like, I just don’t get it! It’s the emotional soundtrack to my life! It takes me back, it moves me forward, it has been important to society since the beginning of time. In college, the CD collection you had was absolutely a marker of who you were as a person! But hey that’s why they make so many ice cream flavors. If it’s not your thing, it’s not your thing.
Anonymous
Op here- thanks all! 98% if the time it doesn’t bother me at all. I have lots of other interests. It came up this week because our first years started and a few of them are super into music and were talking with the partner I work the most with (and have for going on 7 years) and I went to hand the partner something that he asked me to bring him as soon as it was ready, and the partner (who is really one of the best people you’d ever meet was like ) “yeah, we all like music in our real estate group except for OP, if we had known when we were interviewing her……” the statement just kind of stung a bit. He meant it in jest, and apologized later for saying it (again, he’s a great up person to work for, music is his passion and he doesn’t understand how I don’t have it as my passion). It’s not relevant to my job. It’s not that I never listen to music- I just listen to classical or broadway and only occasionally. I feel like not knowing or not being into other things are easily dismissed as “okay” because it’s sort of a vice… “oh, you don’t watch tv or movies? That’s fine because tv rots our brains.” “Oh, we shouldn’t be gossiping about other people/celebs, we aren’t walking in their shoes.” But not being passionate about music is just the equivalent of saying “yeah, my favorite hobby is stabbing myself in the eye” and just is not something that people comprehend (much like theguvnah’s comment below). My interests … I easily understand they’re not for everyone (like my passion for old home restoration and woodworking… I totally understand they’re not for everyone! I get why you wouldn’t be interested!) I just feel like I happen to not like the one thing that you’re “supposed” to like with at least a large part of your heart.
Curious
That would sting for me, too, OP. I felt like an idiot for a long time for knowing so little about music. It’s a fairly deep insecurity for me. I did recently realize I know a pile of show tunes, three hours’ worth of camp songs, and a bunch of classical music and global pop. I just don’t know the right stuff. For what it’s worth, I’d love to hear about your woodworking!
Anonymous
Anyone have a good recipe for samosa? My kids LOVE Indian food and we’ve started to make it ourselves (our takeout bill is astronomical). Also, any general leads on finding good paneer in stores? I’ve made it but it’s time consuming and doesn’t taste as good.
Anon
These days, Kroger and Whole Foods carry paneer. We buy ours, frozen, from an Indian market next door to an Indian restaurant.
Trader Joe’s makes samosas.
Cornellian
If you’re in a more mexican/central American-heavy area, sub queso panela or blanco. Generally way cheaper for whatever reason, when I’m in a store that has both.
A
Vegrecipesofindia.com
It has everything and photos for each step. You’re welcome.