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Updated: Nov 1, 2018 203 Comments · by

Frugal Friday’s TPS Report: Long Sleeve Colorblocked Cardigan

The Personal Shopper (TPS) | · · · ·

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Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. Alfani Petite Sweater, Long Sleeve Colorblocked CardiganI keep coming back to this Alfani sweater at Macy's — the yellow/lime looks fun and vibrant, and I think it would be a good match for anything from trousers, to dresses, to skinnier pants, to even jeans on the weekend. I always prefer to wear yellow with gray, rather than black — it can veer a bit towards “bumble bee” if you don't — but maybe that's me. The sweater is now $38.35 (formerly $59) at Macy's. Alfani Petite Sweater, Long Sleeve Colorblocked Cardigan P.S. There is a non-petite version as well in a deep pink, but very limited sizes are left. Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-3)

Sales of note for 10.10.24

  • Nordstrom – Extra 25% off clearance (through 10/14); there's a lot from reader favorites like Boss, FARM Rio, Marc Fisher LTD, AGL, and more. Plus: free 2-day shipping, and cardmembers earn 6x points per dollar (3X the points on beauty).
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale (ends 10/12)
  • Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything plus extra 25% off your $125+ purchase
  • Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
  • Eloquii – Extra 50% off a lot of sale items, with code
  • J.Crew – 40% off sitewide
  • J.Crew Factory – 50% off entire site, plus extra 25% off orders $150+
  • Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
  • M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
  • Neiman Marcus – Sale on sale, up to 85% off
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – 50% off 2+ markdowns
  • Target – Circle week, deals on 1000s of items
  • White House Black Market – Buy one, get one – 50% off full price styles

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

About Kat

Kat Griffin is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of Corporette. You can read more about her here.

Comments

  2. Homestar

    Too bad I can’t wear this color, I’m into the colorblocking right now. Too young to be over it from the first time around!

    Early threadjack–need help from the hive mind. I’m drafting an agreement where the client wants three levels of voting. I’m using “majority” and “supermajority” for two levels and am stumped on how to define the third level. Any ideas?

    I’m thinking I need a synonym for “supermajority” or perhaps new labels that would adequately convey a big vote, a huge vote, and a humongous vote! (Unanimous voting is not one of the levels–so I can’t use “unanimous” vote.)

    • MOR

      You could do something like simple majority, 2/3 (or whatever proportion relevant) majority, and super majority.

    • Cat

      Starbucks inspiration – ventimajority? (Ha)

      Don’t be scared of that color without trying it! I think this light yellowy-lime color is surprisingly flattering to a variety of complexions — I’m blonde and fair and it makes my hazel eyes turn a pretty green, looks stunning on my raven-haired coworker, and would look especially great against darker skin.

      • Alanna of Trebond

        Starbucks inspiration – ventimajority? (Ha)

        Don’t be scared of that color without trying it! I think this light yellowy-lime color is surprisingly flattering to a variety of complexions — I’m blonde and fair and it makes my hazel eyes turn a pretty green, looks stunning on my raven-haired coworker, and would look especially great against darker skin.

        • Cat

          interesting – good point. Similarly, I find that Ann Taylor’s colors are often too harsh on me – like the pastels are too “pure” almost (I look better with a touch of brown in them), and the brights are too saturated.

    • Gooseberry

      I agree with MOR — can you do a fractional supermajority (e.g., 2/3, 3/5, etc)? Otherwise, “supermaj” just means more than “simple” so everything from 50% up, really, would be a supermaj, no? So, I think a fractional approach avoids later confusion about whether something is defined as a supermajority or a ventimajority. ;-)

      • Nonny

        Ordinary approval, special approval and reserved matters.

        Then define them as % approval in your “definitions” section.

    • Anon13

      Finally! Another snow-lover! I’m so tired of hearing people complain about winter. I love it.

      • blech

        Even when you are in your 4 or 5 month of winter? I like winter too – I just know that the constant cold and idiot drivers get a bit much by March.

        • Anon13

          It starts to get a little old in March, but I’m a pretty avid gardener and I make sure I have tons of crocuses and snowdrops coming up everywhere by then. And witch hazel, which even blooms in February! I’ve found that the best way to get through the winter is to embrace it ~ buy good, warm winter clothes and get outside as much as possible. The only thing I really don’t like is the dark ~ I hate that I leave for work in the dark, come home in the dark, and only get out in the daylight on weekends. Ugh.

          • a nonny miss

            I will say that I do get a little tired of it by May (it’s not unheard of), but it’s been unseasonably warm where I live lately, like, around 60 last week. I’m ready for some white stuff even if it’s likely to mean a bad winter!

      • Jas

        I’ll be complaining about the snow by March, but we’re up to 8 ft of snow in some areas and I’m going snowmobiling for the first time this winter on Sunday so I’m pretty darn excited too.

    • EM

      Are you in the Denver area? Your description of the weather sounds mighty familiar. :) I lived in Texas for many years before moving out here. We moved because we just couldn’t take the heat in TX anymore.

      • a nonny miss

        I am not, I’m from Buffalo, but hasn’t the weather just been ridiculous this year?

      • Lynnet

        Hey, I’m also in Denver, just moved here a month ago! I loved the snow/fog combination we had this morning.

  4. Lyssa

    Maybe it’s just my monitor, but I’m finding the yellow actually painful to look at. I like the pink one a lot, though.

    • Support Staff

      Hey all- what is the management like for your support staff? We recently lost an office manager and for some reason an attorney is now in charge. I just got asked to help with training and politely declined, because I really do not think it is at all my responsibility to train support staff (this is not the first time she has asked me, either). We are a fairly small office, but have more support staff than attorneys. I think there should be some senior members of the support staff who can train the others. I’ve just never heard of a place where attorneys are expected to spend time training support staff.

      • Lyssa

        My firm is very small and old (as in, everyone except me has been there a while), so it might be different. We don’t have an office manager, and we have one assistant per attorney (and a p/t bookkeeper and a very p/t law student). There’s no real management, other than just the direction of the attorneys, though the partners would call the shots if they need to be called. It’s a good system because everyone works well together, but I’m not sure what they’d do if they had to train someone new. I would expect that the most senior assistant would take the lead, and everyone would just kind of pitch in on things that they might use that support staffer for.

      • Ann

        I am sure the attorney who is now in charge of office manager responsibilities already has her plate full and does not think they are part of her job either. Although your firm is poorly managed, you still want to be a team player, and helping her out with this will probably pay dividends later when you need her to help you out with something. I think you should pitch in to the extent you can and still meet your attorney obligations, while asking when a new office manager will be hired.

      • anon

        I’m in a smaller office (11 attorneys, 13 support staff), and I absolutely agree that attorneys should not be training support staff, other than letting your secretary/assistant know how you like things done. We have had a problem with training, due to high turnover, we ended up with no one who had been here over 1-2 years, and no continuity in how things were done. So, it’s been a struggle here, but I agree that senior support staff should be training new staff.

      • Seattleite

        I’m in a small (10 attys) office, and the six partners have an eat-what-you-kill approach. So each partner is responsible for, or delegates one of his employees to, train new staff. The practical effect of this is that new staff is thrown in the deep end to sink or swim as they will. There is little motivation for staffers to train other partners’ employees, as it takes time away from their own boss’s work. They are unwilling to hire an office manager because no one wants to add to their overhead.

      • Anon

        Nice Girls Don’t Get The Corner Office

        Don’t pitch in or it will soon be in your job description.

  5. E

    I have my annual evaluation today. Any words of advice for the best way to conduct yourself?

    • nona

      Don’t react emotionally. If something is said that you disagree with, say something like “I’d like to digest what you’ve said and I hope we can discuss this later.” Good luck!

    • Circe

      Thank them for compliments, take criticism with aplomb, and thank everyone for their time. Breathe.

    • EM

      Unless they bring up anything ridiculously off-base, I’d act like I was happy and grateful to receive constructive criticism.

    • Lizbet

      If you get criticism, ask questions — ask for specific examples of what they’re discussing and for them to describe exactly what they would like you to do differently. Words such as “aggressive” or “unprofessional” or “more organized” or “more responsive” are incredibly vague and don’t tell you what the feedback giver is thinking of and actually wants done differently. Come to think of it, that’s probably not a bad idea for positive feedback, as well. Good to know exactly what they like!

      And good luck!!!

      • anon

        try not to think of it as criticism, but as developmental feedback – ways to grow and make you better.

        and don’t forget to focus on the positive stuff, too. :) take time to recognize your strengths and be proud of them.

  6. anonette

    Taking advantage of casual Friday by wearing a long denim skirt.

    Can’t decide if I look really cute or like a long lost Duggar sibling.

    • Always a NYer

      That made me laugh out loud! Can you believe they’re having another baby?!

      • anonette

        They are my favorite reality TV trainwreck! I wonder what J name the newest one will be…

        • a nonny miss

          For me, t’s a serious toss up between them and the Browns of Sister Wives fame.

          But I am also curious about the next J name since they’ve used Jinger but not some other, conventional J names.

      • Two cents

        No, I can’t. It’s their right to have children but I simply cannot comprehend the trauma on one’s body after giving birth to 18 biological children (or is the number higher than that?). I don’t follow the show.

        • non

          My grandma actually gave birth to 18 biological children (16 of which survived) over the course of 25 years. Without a reality television show or special tax break on the house. Or dormitory bedrooms or multiple washer/dryers or a big fancy kitchen. When asked why she had so many kids, she is rumored to have said “Because I liked it as much as he did”.

          Of course she was smart enough to give them relatively normal names that do not all start with the same letter. But, it was also a different time and I have a hard time seeing it done today.

          • JenK

            So have you asked her about that awesome quote? That’s too funny!

            I remember my grandma describing a particularly prolific couple by saying “all he had to do was hang his pants on the bedpost”

          • non

            I haven’t asked, and probably won’t. Its a better story without confirmation, IMO. :) And I don’t know that grandmother as well (what? she doesn’t have an indepth knowledge of all 40-some grandkids?)

            Now, if it was my other grandma (who I know better), I’d be tempted to ask. But she only had 12 kids.

        • Lyssa

          I’d imagine that by the time you’ve passed 7 or 8, it’s all pretty much the same down there. By 13 or 14, I figure the kids can just walk out.

          Seriously, though, I don’t follow the show, but as far as I can tell, the seem like nice (weird, but nice) people, and seem to take care of the kids well enough, so I hate to disparage them too much for keeping going with it.

          • Emily I

            I would generally agree with the live-and-let-live attitude, but the fact that the mom almost died as a result of the last pregnancy and the baby had to be delivered extremely prematurely, leading to what appear to be significant health problems, means that my attitude has changed toward the Duggars. As a mother myself, I can’t imagine taking the very real risk that I would leave behind 20 children – most of whom are not adults yet – to have what is likely to be another child who has significant health issues. This is not to say that the premature babies won’t be perfectly fine with time or that mom is definitely going to have problems again, but why take the risk?

          • JJ

            @Emily I: Totally agree with you. After almost dying and almost losing her baby to pre-eclampsia (I believe) last time, what would make you think that #20 would go more smoothly?

          • M

            Piggybacking on what Emily said, the mother has also had a prolapsed uterus three times. I’m not a mother and I’ve never been pregnant, but I can’t imagine that it’s very good for your body to continue to stress it like that.

          • EM

            The reason the Duggars keep having so many children is that they are part of the Quiverfull movement. They aren’t explicitly mentioned in the wikipedia article, but they did attend a convention along with other large families. While the TLC show didn’t play into the Christian aspect of it, it was clear to me that all of the other families were conservative Christians as well, and they all happened to homeschool their kids too. I’m not asserting an opinion on any of this, but it does explain why she has children to the detriment of her own health and the potential health of future children. They don’t believe in any form of birth control whatsoever (including natural family planning).

          • S

            Who paid for the helicopter and all of the rest of those healthcare services for baby #19. Private insurance? Medicaid? Hospital charity care? TLC?

          • Anon

            I don’t specifically know who paid for it, but everything I have read indicates that the Duggar’s are self-sufficient and do not receive any type of aid. I bet having their own TV show helps. But each of the children (who were alive and able then) participated in the building of their house, and they make a lot of their clothes, etc. They aren’t seeking a handout.

          • Argie

            Except for the tax-exempt status they have on their property, since they got it declared a church. But, yes, otherwise they are pretty self-sufficient.

          • Anon

            Argie, is that verified? I’m reading some reports saying no taxes, and some saying they paid plenty of property taxes (~$16k last year). I’m not sure which to believe.

            However, I will say, I’ve seen churches that have less than 25 people, so maybe it’s legit. ;)

      • GRA

        I’m sorry, but when your children start having their own children it’s time to stop reproducing.

      • CSF

        Haha, I actually kind of like the Duggar’s. At least, I make their recipe for laundry detergent and it’s cheap and very efficient! I know–you have to be crazy thrifty to make your own laundry soap!

    • Anon

      One of my students wears a long denim skirt and after a colleague happened to meet her one day she said afterwards to me, “Oh, homeschooled?”

      Yep.

      • anonette

        This is my nightmare.

        It helps my top is a little low cut, right? This is what I keep telling myself…

        • Sweetknee

          If anyone is a fan of Duggar snark, google “free jinger”. . it will take you to a website that makes fun of the whole fundy culture. Sometimes it gets a little too ultra feminist for my taste, but still really hilarious.

        • mamabear

          I agree with anon. I think the long denim skirt needs to go to Goodwill where it can make its way to its rightful owner on the compound.

    • EM

      I got tired of wearing my yoga pants when I had a cast on my foot, so I bought a long black maxi skirt to wear to work. I happened to be wearing a cardigan with it too, and I realized I looked like a sister-wife. I made a comment about it to a coworker who grew up in a Mormon part of the country, and he looked me up and down and said, “Yeah, kinda. But your top is a little low cut”. ROFL (it was a Merona t-shirt from Target.)

      • I know someone who looks like you

        True story – my grandmother is one of 18 children, 16 survived. It’s one of my favorite answers – do you have a relative in X? for a solid “maybe”

        :)

  7. Shopping PSA

    If anyone is in the market for a new theory suit, lots of theory pieces are marked down 30% at bloomingdales (including the max c and emery pants and the gabe jacket). A great deal!

    • AIMS

      Bloomingdales has a ton of cute dresses and tops on sale now, too. And with a friends & family code it’s an extra $25 off each $100, up to $400.

  8. anonette

    I know! How do you use Jinger but skip Jane?

    (although Jinger is my favorite Duggar)

      • anonette

        I really think she’s the most likely of the family to write a tell all and become the lead guitarist in an all girl punk rock band.

  9. Midori

    Quick threadjack please? I’m taking the TN bar in Feb. (already licensed in IL, relocated), and do NOT want to shell out the $$$$ for barbri this time around. A few friends sing the praises of Micromash, but from what I can tell the program was bought by something called Multistate Edge and relaunched sometime last March. Anybody know anything about it? Is it legit? Will I sink my chances of passing if I go with it to save about a thousand? It makes me nervous that I don’t see any signs of life on their blog or facebook page and all my calls to the info line roll to voicemail.

    • AIMS

      No idea about that one, but I know a few people who just signed up for the PMBR books/1 exam package and then got some older barbri materials on ebay for about $50 and passed just fine. Of course, some people just do better with a structured program, so it’s a know what works for you kind of situation.

    • Kelly

      How were you the first time around? While I wasn’t a super law student, I found the bar exam pretty easy. If I take another bar exam, I def would not shell out for barbri. Their materials (e.g. essay answers and practice MBE’s) were useful, I def would not need the lectures or anything again. Do you hafta retake the MBE for this? How long ago did you take IL?

      Anyway, I would buy TN barbri materials on ebay. New employer won’t shell out for barbri, or the relocation isn’t for a job?

      • Midori

        I took IL in 2008 and used barbri for it. I really found the structure helpful then and liked the comfort factor. But this time around I have a toddler to look after and live 3 hours from the nearest lecture site, so it just doesn’t make sense. Relo was for husband’s job, and I’m still unemployed, so no dice there. I don’t have quite enough experience to waive in, and TN doesn’t take old MBE scores, so I have to start all over. It hurts to shell out top dollar for this knowing I have no guarantee of employment thereafter.

        I checked Ebay, Amazon, and Craigslist for every city in TN, and no one is selling bar review materials. Also, they’re adding the MPT for the first time this Feb.

        • Kelly

          ugh that sucks there’s no materials for sale anywhere. For the 2 bars I took I was far from a testing site, working full time and did barbri mobile (never went to a live lecture or testing center). It worked fine and I passed both states, and actually while listening to the lectures I’d be paying bills, drinking wine, painting my nails….it was basically background noise. Definitely not worth the $3200 I had to spend.

          Is the MPT like a performance test? The one I had was super easy, it was drafting an answer to a complaint, and maybe a counter claim? They gave you a library will all the facts, statues and case law. I didn’t do any prep for the PT except for reading through barbri’s samples, and I got a good score on it.

        • ny

          Just so you know about the lecture site issue, you can do it online. I actually was close to a lecture site but watched all the videos online so I could do it on my own schedule. The money is a bummer though

        • KW

          Yes, you can do Barbri online now and never have to go to a real lecture if you don’t want to. I took the bar in 2010 in a state that has the MPT and was happy to have that extra section because I felt like it was free points. You don’t need any info in your head to complete it. They give you all the info and you draft something like a memo, a closing argument, etc. There are two of them and both of ours were pretending you were an associate at a firm and drafting a memo to a partner. We were given notes from a meeting with the client and a couple made up cases as the applicable law. All you had to do was take the issue from the client and apply the law from the cases. Not too hard. The hardest part is the time constraint.

    • Kady

      I used Micromash in 2006, it was fine, but it sounds like they’ve revamped the program so I have no knowledge of what it is like now. I also took a 2nd bar later, but found that I really didn’t need to take a program – just reviewed my first bar notes and got the state specific barbri books from Craisglist and studied off that.

    • Anony

      My fiance used MicroMash for the same $$ reason, and loved it. However, this was before last March; it was the July bar in 2010. That version came with a schedule that you need to follow which he stuck to, and he ended up passing (despite having to handwrite it because his computer crashed the night before). He didn’t take any classes in law school that were bar classes, so there were huge topics he had never seen before. For a couple of those, like corporations and secured transactions, he supplemented his study with E&Es or Emanuel outlines.

      In the alternative, my brother just took another bar and didn’t buy anything except a set of used Barbri books off EBay. He did that for both bars and passed with no problem. I’m not sure how easy it is to find books for your state on EBay, but it’s worth a shot if you really want to save money.

    • Lyssa

      I don’t know anything about Multistate Edge, but I used MicroMash for the TN bar in 2009, based on some stupid bug up my you know what about BarBri being a monopoly and a racket and not wanting to go to more classes, and I was really, really sorry that I did.

      First, they pretty much just sent you a bunch of books & CD-roms with no instruction at all. I know that the idea was to do it on your own time, but something suggesting how to approach it and break it down would have been a lot more helpful. Also, the “pass guarantee” required a lot more work then the system was set up for you to do, something which I didn’t realize until I read the fine print sometime later on. I am not sure that it would even be possible to do all of what was required for it. Also, the outlines were nearly impossible to read and contained a LOT of errors. It was to the point that I was listing them in preparation for an official complaint if needed.

      Anyway, I passed, so perhaps it was a lot of stress for nothing (they won’t release scores, so I have no idea how close it was), and I actually found the bar easier then I expected, but it was really frustrating, and I definitely wouldn’t recommend them. That said, I’ve spoken to others who used MicroMash and were happy with it, so who knows? You’ve taken the bar before, and TN’s is almost certainly easier than IL’s.

      Good luck. As a transplated northerner myself, I think that you’ll really like TN; it’s a really great state to live in.

    • Former MidLevel

      You definitely don’t need to do BAR-BRI again. Did you keep your lecture fill-in-the-blanks handout book (i.e., the only one they let you keep w/o a financial penalty)? That’s really all you need for the MBE. If Tennessee has a state-specific portion, I would ask any lawyers you know down there if they kept theirs. You would be surprised how many people still have them, but lack the time/desire to post them for sale online.

    • Save Your Money

      Don’t spend the money for the Barbri course. You don’t need it, espcially since your last bar exam was only a few years ago. I had to take a bar exam last year, after 8 years of practice. I only studied the Conviser Mini Review. You can get it on craigslist or through the BarBri website.

      You’re going to do great. Good luck!

      • Midori

        Aw, thanks, guys! It’s really encouraging to hear you all say barbri’s not necessary for a second go-around. I think I just get psyched out into thinking this test is too important not to spend Lots of Money on The Best. But you’re right–I just did this three years ago, and a lot of it should come back. I just bought the new state books from barbri, and a set of 2010 PMBR books on Amazon for the MBE. There! Saved $1400. Now wish me diligence! (And a cooperative toddler…)

        • Mal

          I have a friend who took and passed two bars (IN and IL), completely on her own. You can do it!

    • anon

      I used MicroMash for the July 2010 CT bar. I thought the MBE materials were invaluable, and the state materials were meh (and I was teaching myself many of the subjects for the essay questions). I think they still have a 30-day trial, I would recommend trying it, and if the MBE prep is the same, it’s great.

      The MBE when I did it was an online bank of questions. You pick if you want one subject area or mixed, and test mode or practice mode (where you see the right answer and the explanations right after each question). If you are having trouble in one area, it keeps giving you questions in that area. Plus you select how many questions you want to do at once, which helped with my motivation (I couldn’t use not having enough time to do an entire set as an excuse). You also get outlines (one set of condensed, one set more in depth) to use as references. My husband and I both did well enough on the MBE using MicroMash that we were eligible to take an abridged exam when we sat for a second bar.

      The state materials were not state-specific at all, which made me nervous at the time, but after taking the exam, I realize that was sufficient. The editing wasn’t great, though, and I had trouble knowing what were the most important concepts from the outlines they provided. I didn’t think the “mentor” thing was that helpful–they have you send an essay question to a mentor each week to grade. The comments were always fairly generic.

      I think you can buy only the MBE. You might consider doing that if you can find state books cheaper (and maybe better quality) elsewhere. Good luck!

  10. Monday

    Some might be interested in these findings about women not negotiating their salaries. The research being commented on here is actually from 2007, but I hadn’t heard about it. This is not simply the finding that women don’t negotiate, it’s a finding as to WHY that is the case. It rings true for me: not just an irrational wimp-out, it too is based on particular incentives. Links to the original article are linked here.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/12/dont-just-ask-why-women-dont-negotiate/249368/

    Also, I routinely disagree with Meghan McArdle, but her other comments here are also in line with my experience working in a male-dominated field, e.g. being talked over every time, and men’s blindness to it as a gender issue.

    • a.

      That was an interesting read.

      And I actually had an experience with the men-expect-you-to-stop-talking thing yesterday. I was following up with a male coworker on something he’d asked me to do, and started to say something he didn’t agree with. He immediately started talking over me, and usually, like the author mentioned above, I would stop–but since this was something that I 1. felt pretty strongly about it, and 2. knew more about to begin with, I gritted my teeth and made the conscious decision to keep going. He eventually shut it and let me finish, while looking at me like I’d sprouted a third eyeball. And he’s a pretty nice person, not someone who would ever intentionally go out to “show that uppity woman her place” or whatever.

      • Monday

        Exactly. I’ve actually had this conversation pretty openly with several guys I have dated: I need you to let me finish. Every time you and I are talking at the same time, I’m the one who stops and you’re the one who finishes your point. The good news is that they honestly hadn’t thought about it, and they were able to stop once the issue was pointed out.

        For work contexts, I’ve developed a rule: if it’s *in my interest* to let the other person finish, be “right,” or appear more knowledgeable, then I let them. Sometimes it is. If not, however, I need to take on the uncomfortable task of continuing to talk and making sure I am heard. It gets easier with practice…

        • a.

          yeah, this was the first time I’d ever done that, and it definitely qualified as a situation where I cared very strongly about having my opinion heard. It still felt super weird and uncomfortable, so I’m glad to hear it gets easier with practice.

          And also that other women have had this experience, because it has honestly been kind of bugging me, since yesterday morning, how uncomfortable I’d felt there. Three cheers for the Coporette community!

      • Sydney Bristow

        I haven’t read the article yet, but the point about women who stop talking when men interrupt them is an interesting one. I’ve never thought about it before, but I do that. I’ll try to pay more attention to it and learn to push through if my point is worth getting across based on the situation.

    • Homestar

      YES! Monday, thank you for posting this. The research Linda Babcock has done is even more conclusive. Women are socially punished for negotiating.

      The researcher showed videos of men and women asking for a raise (using the same script). Viewers were then asked, as hiring managers, whether they would give the man or woman a raise. People would generally give the raise to both genders. But, the interesting part is that people–of both genders–viewed the men as likable and the women as pushy and aggressive. Clearly, the women in this situation got what they wanted (the raise) but also potentially hurt their long-term career prospects (by cementing an impression of being pushy and aggressive).

      I don’t know what the answer to the dilemma is, but I do think women may find more success with different negotiating strategies than men. You can’t just blame women for not negotiating when there are real negative repercussions for negotiation.

      Google “Ask for a Raise? Most Women Hesitate” to read more on the research.

        • Pam

          Great article, but… What does it say about me that in reading it, the biggest thing that caught my attention was the use of the word “weenie”? (Shout out to Ellen!)

          • Pam

            That was supposed to be in reply to Homestar. Misplaced replies drive me crazy!

    • SAlit-a-gator

      I think there’s a ring of truth to being talked over, however, I still don’t see how’s that connected with why women don’t negotiate thier salaries?!? Am I missing something?

      Also, I feel bad after reading this because I talk over poor DH everytime I disagree with him. Tellingly, this is a bad habit I picked up from my dad is notorious for this kind of behaviour.

  11. a.

    Morning ladies. I have exciting news…I am supposed to be going out to dinner with a Real Live Man tonight. This is quite a thing, because even if it sucks and is awkward, it means that the last date I have been on will no longer be with the ex-boyfriend who broke up with me via the ever-classy text message. Victory!

    But I’m having trouble deciding what to wear, between two outfits, and I can’t think of a better group of people to ask.

    Option one: skinny black jeans and gray ankle boots, with a sheer, over-sized gray top that has interesting bead-work. Earrings and rings.

    Option two: black knit mini, black patterned tights, and snakeskin flats, with over-sized black cashmere sweater and a long statement necklace.

    Thoughts? Thanks in advance :)

    • AIMS

      Both outfits sound really cute! I would go with jeans. I hope you’re also wearing something under the sheer gray top so it’s not actually sheer ;)

      Whatever you choose, have a great time.

    • Kelly

      ooh both outfits sounds adorable! what is the venue and time for the date? Are you more comfortable in the jeans or the skirt? If you’re planning on walking around in freezing weather I’d go with the jeans. Actually regardlesss of weather I’d go with the jeans/boots outfit, but that’s my personal preference. I’ll usually keep it pretty casual for the first date, but both outfits seem to be the same level dressy/casual-ness.

    • Batgirl

      FUN! I like the jeans outfit–sounds cute and sexy without being too obvious. Have fun!

    • Miriam

      I would go with the jeans because they are automatically more casual and relaxed than a mini skirt. Good Luck! Hope you have a great time and let us know how it goes! I love the excitement of a first date. Even if it is terrible you will still have a great story to tell.

    • Cat

      Ooh, depends on where you are going and what message you want to send. Option one “reads” as more outgoing/fun and trendy to me; option two as cute and cozy, but not trying to show off (in a good way). Either way I’m sure you’ll look great!

    • Lyssa

      I agree with the consensus of jeans.

      Aside: Early in the day that I went on my first date with my now-husband, I was debating what to wear (dinner at a casual place and a movie, so pretty much anything was appropriate). My college roommate’s boyfriend was over, so I asked him (for a guy’s opinion) whether I should wear jeans or nice khaki pants (it was the 90’s). He immediately said khakis, because they were more dressed up.

      A little later, I changed into jeans for some reason, and as soon as I came out of the room, roommate’s BF looked at me and said: “Wear the jeans.” I asked why, and he said that he hadn’t seen me in them when he responded and that I look better in them. So I did, and everything else is history. :)

      • Monday

        On my first date with Mr. Monday, I wore a bright red romper with an 80s pattern and lace trim. It’s what I felt like wearing that day. He has since disclosed that he doesn’t really like rompers, but I don’t care any more now than I did then! I wanted him to dig me, but knew the romper would not make or break that.

        a, My vote is for wearing whatever makes you feel most comfortable, confident, and like yourself. That’s who you want to be on a date. Have fun!

    • SAlit-a-gator

      Congrats and well wishes on your date with Real Live Man! I like both options but vote for the first one because it seems well put together and not monochromatic. Have fun and please update us on how it went.

    • SF Bay Associate

      Both very cute, but I think the jeans outfit is the way to go. I presume you are wearing something under the sheer top. May I suggest that the something under be a solid color, not nude, so there’s no question that you are in fact wearing something under your sheer shirt :).

      Have a great time, and make sure one of your friends knows the guy’s full name, where you are going to be, and what time/times you are going to call or text her with a code word/words that you are safe. I know that sounds paranoid, but it only takes a couple minutes and is always a good idea.

    • a.

      Okay, looks like it’ll be jeans then! My roommate will be apprised of all pertinent location and timing details, our code word will be “Malbec,” and I will provide a full update in the weekend thread. This is my first venture into online dating, too, so that should provide for extra adventure. (And hopefully my Real Live Man will not turn out to be a 65-year-old Russian woman named Svetlana, which is my secret fear.)

      • Nonny

        Have fun and be yourself! My best dating results have been when I’ve deliberately taken the stance that I don’t have to prove a thing.

    • Jas

      Both sounds super cute! I think I’d go for Option 2, though, probably just because I love gray ankle boots!

    • Anonymous

      Oversized and interesting are probably not great adjectives for man-bait. It’s okay not to want to wear man-bait, (love me some Manrepeller), but if you’re into him, show it in the simple visual language he speaks.

      • NYC

        Yeah, I’m in this camp. Based on my limited research, men do not like skinny jeans or ankle boots (or rompers — seriously, I dare you to find one straight man who likes rompers). I would put both outfits on and then ask yourself, what would Patty say?

        • Miriam

          Men don’t like skinny jeans?? I guess I wear manrepeller pretty often, but that’s okay since I’m not single. Seriously I thought men liked them because they are so tight.

        • Kelly

          I think younger men like skinny jeans, maybe it’s older men that don’t like them? I think men like any jeans that look good on you. But anyway, all the young guys I know love the skinny jean and boot look.

          Lol I’ve never seen Patty’s show but read the book. I know she suggested solid color tops, and maybe not black? So I agree that maybe the interesting/oversize top wouldn’t be the best man bait. I don’t know if she said not to wear skirts on the first date but she was definitely a proponent of heels. Out here in semi rural suburbs I wouldn’t really wear anything other than jeans on a first date (in the winter), but it may be different in the city.

          But seriously wear what you feel like yourself in. I think in general men just don’t like crazy trends that women wear for women, and they like women to wear things that flatter their body.

          • mamabear

            >I think in general men just don’t like crazy trends that women wear for women, and they like women to wear things that flatter their body.

            Second this.

            You can’t ask an audience of women what a man will find most attractive. Ask some of your male coworkers.

          • a.

            Interesting. Especially the bit about men not liking skinny jeans, ankle boots, or rompers–I have literally never heard any of that before, but then I am young and extremely hipster-adjacent (a term someone used a week or so ago, which I love and have appropriated for my personal use), and as such my sample has been skewed towards men who wear skinny jeans themselves. The only complaint I have ever received about them is that they are more difficult to, ah, remove quickly. But as this is a first date, that will not be an issue.

            As far as the body-flattering goes, in my experience, men like women to wear things that look good on them, that they feel comfortable in (and that are setting-appropriate). I happen to look good in over-sized tops paired with really tight bottoms, because I have the chest of a twelve-year-old boy but have got really fantastic legs and, ahem, assets. So…yeah. Thanks for the input, it’s definitely given me some food for thought.

  12. L

    I was reading Miss Manners this morning and encountered this…
    “She did this THREE TIMES. What should my husband have done? What should I have done? I GRABBED his hand and PULLED him away. I was so ANGRY at him. We left the wedding. I think she was so DISRESPECTFUL to me and my husband.”

    Maybe Ellen’s more well written relative, Eleanor?

  13. Kady

    Another threadjack. I’m trying to reenter the work force after almost 2 years – has anyone actually had any success finding a job through online job submissions? I’m talking about the ones that are run by the companies (usually large) themselves, where they list all of their job openings, you click to apply to one and then download a resume. My sense has always been that resumes submitted this way all go directly to the bin, wanted to know if there are any good stories out there?

    • Monday

      This is how I got my first job out of grad school, while living in another city and having no connections at all within the organization. It was simply the way they were collecting applications. I don’t even think there was any other submission option.

    • Kelly

      I got a job offer (after 3 interviews) this way but was able to put an employee’s name who I knew there in one of the fields.

    • Bunkster

      That’s how I got my current job so it does work, but you know how much I love my job.

      Other than that, I use Monster and Careerbuilder. Oh, and some very large companies in this area actually have their own job search databases so you can login and set up alerts.

    • Kelly

      I’ll add that the offer I got was for a non legal job. I’ve never had a response to submitting a resume on a law firm website this way, but got interviews at firms by just emailing my info to a partner in the practice area I was interested in.

    • Pauline

      I did, but I think it’s really important to have very specific keywords in your resume or else your resume won’t get flagged for review by a recruiter. The job I applied to was basically for a web research job, but the first time I applied, I didn’t put the word ‘research’ in my resume, so I had no response; the second time I applied (for another opening that opened up a month after my first application), the corporate recruiter got back to me pretty quickly.

    • JenK

      Kady, I have no answer to your question, but just wanted to say that I’m attempting to break back into my once and future profession too. Corporette is really helpful because it’s a different kind of chatter than I’m likely to get with moms who I know through my son (and that’s all I know here)

    • Niktaw

      Yes, twice, but my stories are more than 10 years old. I have lots more stories of resumes, mine and my referrals’, disappearing into a black hole. Networking in person is still the best option and my personal experience supports that. Doubly so for positions of some seniority.
      I recommend, once you identify the companies of interest, to see if anyone in your LinkedIn network works there, and try to get introductions or referrals. You can also reach out to the company recruiters on LinkedIn.
      Good luck!

    • Jas

      I’m not in the legal field, but that’s how I got my current job. Make sure you get an “we recieved your submission” email, even if it’s a form. Our online submission thingy has a tendancy to eat resumes, but there’s no mention of that on the submission site.

    • Anonymous

      That’s how most federal jobs get gotten, including all of mine over a career.

    • Kady

      Thanks ladies, these are reassuring (except for yours, Bunkster : ) ). Just to clarify, I’m not looking for a legal job (yet), so the resume bomb on firms won’t work.

  14. Woods-comma-Elle

    I like the first one, but mainly because it is really cold outside where I am, so the idea of the skirt and flats makes me feel cold for you.

  15. clueless summer associate

    I am always looking for fun stocking stuffers for my boyfriend, as I come from a family where the stocking is a HUGE deal. I thought you ladies might have a few good ideas…how about we all put down our ideas of what to put in our SO’s, children’s, parents’ stockings.

    – business card case
    – seasonal boxers (snowflakes, snowmen)
    – chocolate and treats
    – a book (he likes biographies)
    – a men’s magazine
    – maybe a video game, if I can find a cheapish one he’d like/doesn’t have
    – small giftcards, for coffee shops/lunch places

    For my mom’s stocking, which I am still in charge of:
    – nail polish
    – lipstick
    – nice scarf or gloves
    – Hello magazine (she loves it)
    – fancy teas

    • AnonInfinity

      I want a stocking full of Bunkster’s peppermint bark. That stuff is the bomb dot com.

    • Bunkster

      F$@k, I forgot about stockings. We definitely do them, but we use mostly drugstore items:
      new toothbrush
      chocolates
      smoked almonds
      lip balm
      orange at the bottom

      Oh, and my parents still pay for our AAA cards. So that’s included. That’s actually the biggie.

      • Argie

        Same here – mostly drugstore items. Toothbrush, lipbalm, fingernail clippers, a little candy, socks (we’ve upgraded to smartwool lately) and then a couple of small personalized things (cd, little game or toy, etc)

      • Fly a Way

        Mr. Fly a Way and I, after 27 married xmas together, now just (?) give each other stockings. It’s several bags of wrapped things and we spend as much time as needed for the person to guess the identity of each item. No fair putting it into a different box etc. There are traditional items:

        toy
        candy
        toothbrush (or new heads for electric ones)
        toothpaste
        floss
        deodorant
        shampoo (you can see why it is several bags)
        body wash
        glasses wipes/cleaners
        toothpicks of some sort
        book (oh no, this year we got kindles)
        cds – music
        dvds – movies, concerts

        Other than that, it is whatever we spy and can “afford.”

        It is generally a way to stock up the house on consumables, but fun and creative. We’ve taken to using a list of places in town and picking the one for the year (w/help of a random number chart). We both must go to that area. We set a money limit.

        Last year it was a strip center with a grocery, drug store, and a discount shoe store in it. I scored with a pair of columbia sandals as he needed new ones for puttering around outside and errands. Never guessed it! Took a chunk out of the budget though:) I also got tins of black walnut oil and truffle oil – would appreciate hints on what to do with them. Darn that “Chopped” show, we’re addicted and cramming stuff into our pantry now. :)

        • L

          truffle oil, you are a lucky duck! I had the most amazing rolls that had truffle oil drizzled (lightly) . delicious. that or on a thin-crust home made cheese pizza. mmmm

    • NOLA

      The ninja flashdrive from the Container Store is great for guys (and probably some women too!) My SO loved it.

    • Ellie

      My fiance’s not a big candy person, but I gave him one of the “spicy chocolate bars”? that came in my Birchbox last month and he loooved. He’s getting 3 of those, and possibly a gift card to the Grooming Lounge (upscale barber shop in DC, complete with drinks while they are pampered).

    • JenK

      We do smallish gifts, like a ball or spoon for brewing tea or a headlamp to use while camping, maybe cute desk accessories. If he’s a new-ish boyfriend, how about tickets for a date, either cutesy things you do yourself or actual tickets to a performance far enough in advance that he can schedule for it.

    • AIMS

      I have never done stockings but that sounds cute. Some random ideas from me: sparkly nailpolish, cute luggage tags, sweetriot tiny chocolate tins (they are so freaking good and like 1-2 calories per piece [for those that care]), pretty holiday eye shadow or lip gloss, cute keychain (I got my SO the cloth strap one from BB a while back, he loves it), fun beer bottle opener (my personal pick – the mermaid one from Pylones), other ideas from Pylones, which is so good for random cute things (there’s a few in NYC and they’re online) –> alligator staple remover, squid whisk, elephant funnel, adorable hairbrushes, fish box cutters & pocket knives (I like the glow in the dark bone fish).

      Now, I have a related question — any ideas for something small-ish to get little girls to go with their main present? Ages 3, 5, 8. Preferrably same or similar, but not necessarily. I am not around children much lately so have really no idea whatsoever what they’re into now.

      • Kady

        There are tons of little things that girls love to get in their stockings – parents, less so. Off the top of my head: slinkys, little bottles of nail polish, a pack of uninflated balloons, little container of playdoh, decorative erasers/paper clips, silly putty, decorative hair clips/bands, little snow globes.

      • mamabear

        nail polish, lip gloss, tic tacs, hair elastics, mini word search books, gel pens, novelty pencils, and especially, especially, japanese erasers.

      • SV in House

        I put whoopie cushions (4 for $1 at Target or something) in my son’s birthday goodie bags and my 6 year old girl thought they were the most hysterical thing ever.

        Also in my kids’ stockings: art supplies (glue glitter, pom poms, googly eyes), chocolate santa, lego mini figure, angry birds pencil toppers

        Everyone gets a toothbrush, toothpaste and fancy tissues. Other ideas: travel size anything, emery boards, note pads. If anyone wears glasses, “nosy” from the Container Store.

        Also, we wrap all of the stocking items to slow the kids down enough that I have time for coffee :)

      • AIMS

        These are all great ideas! Thank you!

        I am loading my amazon cart as we speak (and treating myself to some gel pens).

        Bunkster, I love the fashion angels art project. Did you get all three nieces one to share? Or three so each has her own?

      • ANP

        I read the blog Baby Cheapskate religiously and they just had a rundown of stocking ideas for all age groups. I don’t want to post the link for fear of moderation, but Google and you’ll find it.

    • Jas

      My siblings and I do Secret Santa-style stocking for each other. I always like to put food in there. In particular, I usually go to a British sweet shop and get some unusual candy or treats. I got my youngest brother an assortment of odd potato chip snack bags once (roast chicken flavour, cheeseburger etc). Things I Found at the Thrift Store is a favourite for all of us, too, as we’re on a $25 limit. That’s how I ended up with the taxidermied “furred trout” that is currently the only decoration in my cubicle.

    • MeliaraofTlanth

      The men in my family all get socks in their stockings. Because really, you can always use more socks.

      • MeliaraofTlanth

        oh, and a scratch-off lottery ticket or two. My dad started that one years ago (I have no idea why. The other 364 days a year, the lottery is throwing away a dollar. But not on Christmas, apparently). At least one person in the family usually wins a couple of dollars.

    • Lynnet

      I usually include nice candy, some kind of interesting food item (last year it was garlic jelly!), and a handmade scarf or hat (I crochet). Depending on the person and how much space I have left I’ll fill it out with more food, another kind of handmade item (for example, a crocheted hat and a hand dyed silk scarf), toys, or cds.

    • Mal

      I buy the stocking stuffers for my siblings on behalf of my mom. The first year I did it I bought my brother a whole bunch of great stuff and the only thing he used is the bath salts (he the only man I know who takes baths every day). So last year all I got him was a giant bottle of bath salts!

      Other gifts:
      -mini beauty products, usually nicer than the drugstore variety (Sally’s and Sephora are great for this)
      -hand sanitizer (this year I know my mom wants Gold Bond moisturizing hs)
      – candy/chocolate
      -nail files
      -hand lotion
      -hair accessories (headbands, hair clips, etc)
      -slipper socks (great for Christmas morning)
      -if you’re in NY or online muji .us has some fantastic options in their accessories, kitchen, stationery, etc departments
      –

    • Nonny

      My family’s Christmas stockings are super deluxe, and each person contributes to everyone else’s stocking (and some of us have even been known to contribute to our own stockings). Everything is wrapped because that is more fun. Nothing that is individually worth more than about $10.

      Some things that I will be putting in people’s stockings this year:
      – a magazine each, depending on the person’s hobby
      – hand warmers
      – mini nail polish (I bought a pack of 6 from Sephora and am breaking it up)
      – socks
      – small things from my travels this year
      – fancy yarn for my aunt who likes knitting
      – mini Christmas cakes from a fancy store
      – gardening doo-dads for my grandmother who is a gardener
      – scrapbooking paper for my sister
      – one DVD each from the sale section of HMV
      – fun kitchen utensils

      The stockings always have a mandarin and a penny at the bottom. They are the BEST part of Christmas morning for sure.

      The men are always way more difficult than the women.

    • Maddie Ross

      We always get socks (or stockings) in our sock. Every year, my dad fills my mom’s stocking with enough pairs of DK hose to last her the next year. It’s kind of funny.

  16. Anon13

    Any recommendations for a nice scarf and gloves that would go with an ivory coat? I’ve got sensitive skin, so anything with angora is out. Seems like so many places are adding it to their wool and cashmere for “extra softness.” More like “extra torture” for me.

    • a.

      Would a pashmina work? Or maybe a silk blend? If not, a quick search of Nordie’s website has turned up a good number of options. I particularly like the “N_rdstrom Collection Herringbone Cashmere Scarf” in Purple Dark, which I think would look gorgeous with ivory. Or if you want something quirkier, there’s the “N_rdstrom ‘Raindrop’ Cashmere & Silk Scarf,” perhaps in blue or Rhumba Red.

      As far as gloves go, are you trying to match the scarf exactly? Or just get a pair that you can wear with it? Personally, I have two pairs of lined (one with cashmere, one with rabbit) leather gloves, in turquoise and gray, and one of them will work with whatever I’m wearing.

    • JJ

      If you’re a member of Rulala/Gilt/ideeli flash sale sites, they’ve had a lot of “stocking stuffer” sets like those on sale the past few days. I haven’t looked at the fabric content for all of them, but I can sympathize because I’m allergic to angora and basically just the thought of it makes me sneeze. It seemed like last year every sweater that I liked had a small percentage of angora in it, just because.

  17. FYI

    For people looking for cardigans, Lands End has their fine gauge cotton cardigans in a variety of colors for $20. Free shipping with coupon code STAR and PIN 3013, no minimum.

    • KW

      Can you speak to the fit of these? I am afraid they might be too boxy for me, but $20 and free shipping sounds great. Love all the color options too.

    • Argie

      Lands End is also doing discounts on outerwear (up to 50% off) for those looking for a new wool or down coat.

      • Youngster

        I love these cardigans. I’m about 5’2 and 120 pounds, so right on the edge of petite/regular sizing. I wear the small regular and find that it comfortably fits over my button ups. (But wear a 4P for the no iron pinpoint oxfords at Lands End.) Only downside to these cotton cardigans is that they are lay flat to dry (machine wash though). I’ve worn mine regularly for over a year and they’re holding up nicely.

    • mamabear

      I love thie idea of this jacket, but I ordered a couple of CC jackets and they were extremely boxy & unflattering on. I took them back to a B&M store and tried on even more styles, and had the same problem with them as well.

      I think their cut is kinder to post-menopausal women who have started carrying weight in their bellies rather than their hips.

      If you know CC’s fit works for you, great, but if not, I think you really have to try on in a store. Also, it’s tough to get free shipping ordering online from them, and when you return items to the store they do not refund shipping. The clerk at the store I went to told me if I ordered at the store, the shipping would be free. However, I could not find anything I was even remotely interested in ordering. :)

      • Anon

        I agree with mamabear. The jackets look great in the catalog but are big and kind of shapeless in person. Size down and consider tailoring if you LOVE the jacket.

        • JenK

          Well, that jacket has sold out in the meantime, but I do have a peplum jacket I got there a year ago that I love. I’m not post-menopause, but have always carried my weight in my belly, not on my hips. I never tried shopping there when I was a young hottie–think my son was 7 first time I swept through one of their sales.

  19. Work Related Sigh

    I’m in house at a municipal government agency, and we have outside counsel in the form of a very well-respected partner at a large firm. I just emailed him about this problem that arose and he sent back a very thoughtful analysis of the situation that ended with “Holy cr*p!”
    On the one hand, it’s the first thing that’s really made me smile today. On the other, that’s never what you want your lawyer to say.

    • Kady

      It’s ok. My sense is that lawyers holy cr*p a lot more than normal people.

  20. CB

    If you have a Daiso (amazing Japanese dollar store) near you, definitely check it out for fun stationary and weird household stuff. My stocking usually has clippies (I lose them constantly), socks, tights, a fun wallet or coin purse, some nice pens, and a matchbax car (from my dad who thinks I am 5)

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