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Updated: Feb 5, 2021 296 Comments · by

Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: High-Waisted Leggings with Pockets

The Personal Shopper (TPS)

This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.

I’ve seen a lot of bloggers and Instagrammers recommend these Colorfulkoala leggings recently, claiming that they're good duplicates for Lululemons. I was dubious, but the reasonable price point and the fact that some of my leggings are getting a little worn out after almost a full year of constant washing and wearing made me pull the trigger.

Folks, I’m sold. They’re thick enough to provide just a bit of compression, but they don’t feel like they’re smothering you. They’re also buttery soft, and the 7/8 length is perfect for my short legs.

If you’re looking to add to your leggings collection, these are a great choice, and they come in more than 30 (!) colorways.

The leggings are $25 at Amazon and available in sizes XS–XL.

These similar leggings from Amazon Essentials come in sizes 1X–6X and are $15–$24.

Sales of note for 9.30.24

Sales of note for 9.30.24

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. Abby

    I only had 1 pair of leggings pre pandemic and have bought 3 pairs of these leggings since fall and I love them! They’re truly amazing. 2 pairs for running, 1 for lounging. I line dry and the full length fits my legs well at 5’7.

    Also vaccine update: both my parents got the first dose this week. My mom was really sick the day after hers, my dad’s arm just hurt a little. She couldn’t eat anything all day and when she finally felt a little better, all she wanted was a donut. My dad went to the grocery store for her, couldn’t find any donuts and bought her a cake instead haha

    • Pslf

      Has anyone successfully had their federal student loans discharged through the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program? I have 34 payments left to reach the 120 and it feels so far away. I am considering going to a private employer with a mich higher salary and the just taking longer to pay it off. At this point, I owe double what I actually borrowed because of the insane interest. Any advice is greatly appreciated!

      • Anonymous

        Only 34 payments sounds really close. You’d be throwing away years of work. Hang tight.

      • Veronica Mars

        You may want to re-comment non-nested in this leggings post for more visibility.

      • Anonymous

        I applied for TEPSLF in early January and am awaiting the determination. You might get better answers on Reddit r/PSLF. It’s an active and knowledgeable group that has helped me a couple times. Good luck!

    • TheElms

      Can you (or anyone) comment on sizing on these? I’m a pretty solid 12 in Ann Taylor but prefer the curvy fit since I’m a pear. Size chart suggests L for waist and XL (or bigger if there was one) for hips. Any thoughts on which I should get?

      • Abby

        Can you (or anyone) comment on sizing on these? I’m a pretty solid 12 in Ann Taylor but prefer the curvy fit since I’m a pear. Size chart suggests L for waist and XL (or bigger if there was one) for hips. Any thoughts on which I should get?

      • Velma

        I’d size up. My teenager lives in these. She is about 4/6 in jeans and buys a M. I’m a 10 and have one pair–very comfortable in a L. I suspect a smaller size would be wearable but a real compression fit.

    • Anonymous

      My mom had her first dose this week and was very nervous. Like debated not getting it because she was so worried about how she might react. Ended up with no effects whatsoever, not even arm pain. Not even redness. She said flu vaccines have been worse. And couldn’t understand what all the fuss was about. I guess it really does show all folks are different. Your comment cracks me up though because she called me on the way home to tell me she stopped to get ice cream for herself as a reward.

      • Abby

        my mom said she’s not telling any of her friends who are nervous about her reactions so they won’t be worried enough to not get it! DH also had no reactions, but we had other friends who had to call off of work because they were so sick. DH tried to explain to me that your reaction has to do with your immune system/if you potentially already had it, but I’m not science based at all to fully understand.

        • masks

          Actually, one way to look at it is the more side effects, the better! It is a sign your immune system is responding to the vaccine. I was a little disappointed that I had so few side effects (sore arm, same as the flu shot).

        • Anon

          I think reactions are more typical with the second dose. My husband had to stay home from work after the second but was totally fine after the first.

  2. Ribena

    My city is down to 10 cases per 100,000 people per day over the last week! We’ve not been at this level since late November I think so that feels important – and our national/regional test positivity rate is below 5% for the second day in a row. Trying to keep a lid on my optimism.

    • CB

      It feels positive, I’m cautiously optimistic nursery and little school kids will go back in 2 weeks.

      • anon

        I cannot imagine how you parents are doing it with no school. We have school in Texas with masks required and have not had any spread in the elementary schools. We had some post-Christmas notifications that there are cases at the school, but the PhD school nurse sent an email explaining the contact tracing and verifying that none of the cases were picked up at school. I’m thanking my lucky stars to live here.

        • Anonymous

          Not in TX, but also have an elementary student who’s been in-person all school-year with masks and we haven’t had any issues. I know it’s anecdata, but it just doesn’t seem to me that little kids are vectors of this.

        • Cb

          Ugh, we had 3 months of half our normal provision and 3 glorious weeks of FT care, it’s awful and we’re exhausted.

          • Anon

            No school last spring, limited outdoor camps last summer, no school fall 2020, no school yet this year. We are *supposed* to have one kid start 2 days/week after Valentine’s Day and the other kid go one week on / two weeks off (WTF who ever came up with this plan?) starting later in Feb. Short month, work is crazy, two more women just left, and I am not sure I will make it to March. I am seriously considering buying a lottery ticket later.

        • Anon

          I’m in TX too and in my friend’s daughter’s class a parent sent in her kids who had some covid symptoms for 5 days while awaiting test results which were positive. (All this came out upon receiving the results. Im not sure how the teacher didn’t notice the sick kids) So far none of the other kids are positive but who sends their kid to school with possible covid! I feel like if you do that you should lose the option of in-person school

          • Anonymous

            This is one of the reasons we did not take the in-person option. Parents in our red county are refusing to have their kids tested. We do have documented spread in our schools, more so among the faculty and staff than among the kids. Several of our schools have had to shut down temporarily because they didn’t have enough adults to run the school.

          • Anon

            I have a feeling that that would get you kicked out of a private school in my city (and probably shunned socially), but I think that this is why public school teachers are putting up such fight. Because they know some parents will do this normally (and are iffy about getting kids vaccinated, not due to being antivaxxers but just not caring), they do not trust them with this, either. After a year of WFH while school proctoring every workday for me (and then my weekends become workdays to catch up), I will promise to always continue to be in the compliant group. I get that sometimes people legitimately don’t know they have it, but if you know of an exposure, cut the chain! It is worse for so many more people if you don’t!

          • Anonymous

            In our district there are so few available/willing substitutes that they’ve now lowered the requirement to “anyone with a high school degree or equivalent” — whee.

          • Anon

            I’d volunteer to substitute, but I have a job. And SAHMs would love to, but with so many having young kids at home who are not reliably in school, they can’t reliably sub (I have potentially 2 days every 3 weeks when no kids will be at home if things go as planned, so that’s pretty dismal). We are almost to “every warm body”, but retirees and usuals are not really available now.

        • Anon

          Im in Texas and there absolutely is spread in schools, my teacher friends tell me, but districts are not publicizing them and only notifying direct contacts, and not requiring quarantining except if symptomatic.

          • anon

            In Houston, we get emails every time there is a case in the entire school, even though they keep classes totally separate so there couldn’t be spread between classes. I honestly think only telling direct contacts/people in the class is entirely appropriate.

          • Anonymous

            Our school district (not TX) is making general announcements that there was a case somewhere in the school, but is concealing actual exposures. They are only notifying parents whose kids appear next to an infected child on the seating chart, not the entire class. This means that parents whose kids have spent 30 minutes unmasked for lunch in a poorly ventilated classroom with an infected kid are not notified. It is madness.

          • anon

            But has there been spread? Because that is how we are handling it too but no spread, so it seems fine.

          • Anon

            I think it’s immoral that parents are screaming for schools to reopen but not screaming for teachers to be vaccinated. If schools are required to be opened, then teachers are frontline workers and should be top of the list.

          • Anonymous

            What?! No way should teachers get it before old people and medical people. Risk correlates with age. Tell that to all essential workers who have been working in person all this time. If “feeling nervous” were a legit criteria, fine. Tell it to our private and Catholic school teachers and daycare teachers who have been back for MONTHS.

          • Anonymous

            I agree that it’s immoral for all thought to be on the kids and not the teachers.I also think folks aren’t looking enough at making it easier to open by focusing on what’s happening in the area at large. I’m in the Chicago area and I’m disgusted that the mayor is so harsh in her words for the union but at the same time Chicago literally just lifted more restrictions on dining and is keeping bars open until midnight. Could we not do the schools first at least? And now with the cold snap, testing is closed for a week. So the impact of that opening will not truly be known at the same time they want to bring kids back. I’m also disgusted that things are open like Lake Forest College that just introduced a mini-superspreader event while the kids who truly do need face to face–those who are younger–aren’t getting access. I wish we as a state or country were doing this in a better way, where the age of a student is a factor and class size and level of air flow mitigation, etc. etc.. You really want to get crazy–why can’t we adjust the school year slightly? In another six weeks, the teachers would at least be able to open classroom windows or potentially hold something outside versus holding class during an arctic blast in the middle of February. A lot of the studies that everyone seems so ready to cite about minimal spread between teacher and child and vice versa are also in environments were these mitigations exist. But somehow all of this “science” gets treated with the same broad brush when parents want to make the case for their kids back in a school that’s not set-up similarly.

          • Anonymous

            I agree with anon at 1:05. If we want to open schools safely, we need to be taking other measures to reduce community spread so large numbers of kids and staff are not bringing the virus into schools. We also need to require precautions like strict enforcement of masking and proper ventilation in schools.

          • Anonymous

            We need to vaccinate teachers and other essential workers including corrections personnel and court workers before ages 65 to 75. It is the workers who are infecting the older population. The sooner those of us who come into contact with the public everyday get the vaccine the quicker it will slow the spread,

  3. determined

    How have you been successful / unsuccessful at setting boundaries from work?

    I recently changed jobs from a role with long hours, had to be “on call” a lot, definitely had to have Slack on my phone to a role which definitely doesn’t require that, but could expand into that if I let it. I’m in a fairly senior position, so I recognize that I have leeway here a more junior person would not.
    We have “core hours” in the middle of the day from approximately 10am – 5pm, which is the only time meetings (a large part of my job) can be scheduled. I’m trying to set a precedent that I will work the additional 1-2 hrs required in the morning, not in the evening. I respond to things sent after 6pm or so early the next morning (which is fine work wise), and don’t have my email or slack anywhere other than on my work laptop.

    • AnonATL

      It’s a hard thing to set boundaries when you are used to being on call all the time. I went through this after a particularly busy time with work.
      I have a set time when I turn off my computer and walk away for the night. Usually at 6pm after starting my day at 7am. I turned off notifications for my work outlook and teams apps on my phone. And the rest of it is just reprogramming my brain and giving myself permission to log off.
      I keep my phone away from the dinner table so I’m not tempted to check. And shutting down my computer keeps me from being tempted to work more even if it only takes 30 seconds to turn it back on. I also have the benefit of a separate office in my home. Closing the door mentally or physically at the end of the day makes a big difference.
      After doing that for a few weeks and realizing the world didn’t stop spinning because I wasn’t on call helped me realize it was ok to actually log off at night.

    • ATL

      I took my email notifications off my phone and it has made such a difference. Not seeing the gradually climbing number of unread emails in the weekends has been blissful.

      I also severely restrict who has my non-office number…with all of the myriad ways to contact me (email, office phone, chat, in person), there is ZERO reason why anyone needs my cell number. If someone calls my cell during work hours, I’ll call them back from my office phone. If someone calls my cell after hours, I let it go to voicemail and will respond in the morning.

      This works for my role/industry but may not work for yours…

      • The original Scarlett

        Interesting, I’m the opposite, my key internal stakeholders have my personal cell so they can reach me if needed. None of them abuse it and it lets me turn off the noise of my email/slack, etc.

      • determined

        In my previous insane job I did give some coworkers my cell phone number and tell them to call if I was offline and it was an emergency – but there were real emergencies in that job. And they still never called, texted sometimes.

        In this job I was thinking of giving them my phone number since I don’t check slack/email after 6, but I highly doubt any true emergencies would come up, it’s just not in the nature of the work.

    • Veronica Mars

      I think this is a “know your office” type thing. One thing that helps me is that I disabled the notifications for my Slack and Outlook on my phone (including the little red badge that shows how many unread messages you have). That way, I’m checking it when I want to, and not being chased by notifications. If it’s an emergency, people can text me. I also work for a global company, where late calls are just inevitable. What I do is block off one evening per week, and that’s my date night with my husband that I protect (I think it’s helpful that it’s not a Friday afternoon). I will not do any late meetings on that day. I also block off 2-hours after hours on Monday when my book club meets. I’ve found that helps me prioritize my spouse / outside life and set limits without it impacting my work because I can say, “I can’t do Monday from 6-8pm, and I can’t do Thursday nights, but here is when I would be free to meet.”

    • Anonymous

      Someone here gave me the advice to not make a big announcement about your hours, which can make you sound rigid before you’ve done anything, but just work the hours that you want to work and get your job done. When I quit for the day at four, which pretty much everyone knows I do at this point, I am not reachable except by the few people who have my phone number to text me. I don’t make an announcement that I’m not checking email and I don’t set an out of office message. I just don’t do it and have no temptation to. It seems to be working pretty well.

      I have learned that absolutely nobody will respect your boundaries if you don’t set them and keep them. It seems really within the control of the worker 99% of the time but I think people are afraid to do the boundary and therefore they waver on it.

      • Anon

        This. I set firm boundaries and keep them, but I don’t advertise them. And I get my sh*t done.

        • Anonymous

          Exactly. I also work with a lot of people who treat every email that comes in as urgent/necessitating working late when really, it can be pushed to next week or even next month and no one cares. Recognizing those cases takes experiences, of course, especially if you’re not willing to ask, but the fast track to destroying your boundaries is treating every routine matter as urgent.

    • determined

      Oh I also put 30 minutes on my calendar as a blank hold every day for lunch. Yes I have a lot of meetings but also I need a lunch break. I did do this at the busy job too, you can have my other hours but I need to sit down and eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

      • Anon

        I block off one hour in the middle of the day (varying the time slightly), as well as the first 30 and last 30 minutes of my “scheduled” day (which is 9-5 b/c those are my nanny’s hours). I also proactively block off most of the rest of any day once I have 3+ hours of calls scheduled on that day – otherwise, I get nothing done!

        I have a separate personal cell and work cell phone (so work email lives on work phone). I check sporadically in evenings/on weekends. Anyone with the authority to bother me anytime has my personal cell.

        In-house counsel, F500, if it matters.

    • No Problem

      I think it also helps to just tell your colleagues what you’re doing. It doesn’t have to be everyone you interact with, but certainly your immediate manager and anyone else who routinely assigns you work. If they push back in some way, then you can have a discussion about that. In most companies it’s 100% normal to work 9-5 instead of 10-6.

    • anon a mouse

      You need to engage your mind/body in something else at that time so you can avoid the temptation of watching your notifications. (And disable your notifications!) Go for a walk, do a yoga class, take a shower, something that signals a transition into your evening. Prep dinner. Listen to a podcast. Try to create a routine that helps you shift gears, in the way that a commute would if you were in the office. Personally, I log off around 5:30 and hop on the Peloton. It’s a great way to clear my head and I feel good because I am honoring the commitment I made to myself to work out.

    • Anon

      I just did this. A few tips –

      – Block your off time on your work calendar. This makes it “official” (in your head) that you work 8-5 with an hour lunch break.
      – Turn off work app notifications or if you have a separate work phone, set it to do not disturb after your set work hours.
      – Even though I stop work at 5 and sign out of skype, I take 5-5:15 to make my written todo list for the next day. Having all my thoughts written down makes me less likely to jump up at 8pm and “do this one thing before I forget”- at most, I’ll add it to my list.
      – Turn off my laptop after hours and keep it in another room. I can’t have it in the living room, kitchen, or bedroom because then I’m tempted to just check my emails or do one quick thing. So I put it in the guest room turned office, and shut that door.
      – Make a standing appt at 5:15 or 5:30 to force yourself to stop on time. For me, I alternate calling my mom and my dad for a quick chat. They love the extra attention since they live alone (divorced long ago) and stay relatively locked down, so I know they’ll be disappointed if I’m late.
      – I’m trying to rediscover hobbies since I let them go when I was working long hours. So dinner to bedtime is my time to watch a show, read a book, or do a hobby. In the spring when the weather gets nicer I’m hoping I’ll go for walks around the neighborhood or even meet up with friends depending on what is allowed. Surprisingly I’m getting into embroidery – it’s soothing to make something tangible while I watch K dramas on Netflix. I’m not crafty but I’m very detailed so the precision and tiny intricate stitches really appeal to my sense of order.
      – I’ve made a goal to catch up on sleep. After years of thriving on less than 6 hours a night, I’m trying to inch closer to 7 or 8. So I get in bed at 10 with a book and use my daylight lamp to fade down over the next 30 minutes so I’m asleep around 10:30. I swear, my skin is GLOWING because of the extra sleep alone.

      • determined

        This may be stupid, but I thought that on Google Calendar there was a way to set your working hours (which I’ve done) but also to shade/grey out the hours that you aren’t working. How do I turn that on?

        • Google calendar

          When you set your working hours, it shades out the non-working hours (but only other people will see this shading – you don’t see it when you look at your own calendar).

    • CountC

      You’ve gotten good tips already, but the biggest thing for me (and it sounds stupid to say it, but I recognize is harder in practice) is just to not do work at night or on weekends. I decided I wasn’t doing it and would accept the consequents. Five years later, there have been ZERO consequences and I have everyone “trained.” There is no expectation that I respond after normal core business hours or on the weekend. My boss has texted my work phone a couple times on the weekend and I haven’t responded because I put my work phone away after I am done on Friday and I don’t pick it back up until Monday morning. Again, no consequences – he’s never once mentioned it to me.

      You have to train yourself to just not do the work. My company’s staffing issues are not my problem to solve and I won’t work to accomdate the fact that the business doesn’t want to spend the money to staff appropriately. The consequences for them are that things take longer and some balls get dropped. Honestly, not my problem. I am good at my job and when I am in working hours I work hard and well. My boss continues to cheerlead for me and try to get me promoted, so clearly this hasn’t affected my reputation at work. I won’t work for a company that values 24/7 accesibility – my life outside work is more important to me (obviously I am in a place of immense privilege to be able to take that position and I understand that).

      • Anonymous

        Yup, this. We always fear the consequences and most of the time, there are none. People see if you get your work done and that’s all that matters.

        • CountC

          I don’t even get my work done sometimes, but since my boss knows we are understaffed I am not penalized. In fact, I have been promoted 4 times in 5 years!

  4. Unicorn Leggings

    I wonder if you wise ladies can help me out. I am looking for black leggings with flatlocked seams (not serged!), that are made of cotton with elastane/lycra, no synthetic material, full length, and ethically made. Price is no object. I have tried so so many leggings and they never tick all the boxes.

  5. Anonymous

    I’ve recently started double masking with a KN95 (the kind that is packaged folded in half along a seam down the front) as my base layer. Outer layer has been my Johnny Was pleated cloth masks. I use the cloth mask to cover any gaps along the edges, prolong the use of the disposable mask, and add color a la Nancy Pelosi.

    If you double mask, do you have a preferred type of outer mask? I’m wondering if a contoured cloth mask (the type with a seam down the front) would be better.

    Also, before I buy another pack of Johnny Was masks to replace my set from last year, any recommendations for similar price point pleated masks that don’t have random fabric selection. The inability to pick print is the only thing I dislike about those masks.

    • Anon

      I have 3 packs of athleta masks (for 10 months of the pandemic I was in person every day… now I go in ~once a week and I have so many masks!) that I really like

    • Anonymous

      If you don’t mind spending a bit more, resellers sell Johnny Was masks on Poshmark where you can see the print in advance.

    • masks

      One thing to think about…. Fauci was suggesting double masking to try to get closer to the filtering capacity of the KN95 or N95 mask. If you have a true KN95 that isn’t counterfit, you really do not need to double mask.

      The ideal double masking for folks who don’t have KN95s or N95s is a blue surgical mask under a cloth mask. Or honestly, just having a good filter in a cloth mask helps too (many people do not bother to put a filter in the cloth masks, I have noticed).

    • anne-on

      I started double masking for things like doctor’s appointments, and yes, I find the contoured cloth masks work MUCH better, I think they hold the other mask in place a bit better.
      I like Jcrew ones a surprising amount, I’m probably going to save the Johnny Was masks for summer – I found the silk really nice and breathable in the heat.

    • Anon

      Hark and Hammer has really nice silk masks with non-random prints, and I really love them. They are pricier than Johnny Was though.

    • Anon

      I double masked yesterday with one of my new Korean kn95 type masks and a blue medical mask over it. For the first time I really couldn’t wait to get it all off, but I wouldn’t have done it any other way.

      I live in a university town and two returning international students have been diagnosed with the more contagious strain from the UK. It was on local news last night. Who knows how out-and-about they were in the community before getting diagnosed.

    • Silly Valley

      I actually really like the pleated masks from Old Navy – only downside is that they don’t have a nosepiece, but they’re sturdily made out of solid fabric with ear loop adjusters and comfortable elastic. You have to buy them in a set but you can preview the colors/prints before you buy.

      • Digby

        Counterpoint on Old Navy – I bought some in December that were advertised as triple-layer, but they were single-layer. And enormous.

  6. Anon

    Faux-buff update. I invested heavily in faux-buff face coverings early on when you couldn’t get masks. And now they just sit. It is cold and damp here and I’m just using them now to make every shirt a turtleneck. And it is awesome! I have a ton of colors and prints to pick from and it is so much easier than a scarf.

    My cold-natured father wears fake turtleneck things called dickies because he gets cold on every inch of exposed skin, even inside (hello, hypothyroidism!), and I guess I am cut from the same (stretchy tube of) cloth.

    So if you are wondering what to do with yours now that they are frowned up on as masks, there is this (and in the summer, maybe I will rock a kerchief-hippie-headband look with them like I’m backpacking and hostelling through Europe after the semester lets out (in my dreams)).

      • Anon

        My faux ones don’t work as well as the real Buffs, but my Merino Buff is excellent and long enough to make a really good beanie (better ear coverage than beanies I’ve bought). I am considering getting a fleece one.

      • Anonymous

        Ha! I don’t think non-outdoorsy people understand what Buffs are for, or even heard of them before the pandemic.

        • No Face

          I definitely didn’t, because of my general opposition to being outside in the cold.

          • Anon

            Same — I loathe being outside in the damp cold so never did it before. Now, it is the option I have (no more happy hour; trail walking with corona pups with a friend now times infinity). So this is what my shopping is: gear for cold, gear for rain, gear for cold + rain. I feel under-booted (use Keen waterproof hikers for everything) but my office shoes are dusty. I bought trail runners, but not waterproof ones. I feel like I will own half of Eddie Bauer / Title 9 / Athleta by the time this is over and I will look like an extra from the Hunger Games.

        • Anonymous

          Not unless you’re a skier. I use them for skiing and also to cover my hair when I couldn’t wash it for 12 days on a river trip!

      • Anon

        Buffs are indeed quite useful for their intended purpose. I bought some pre-pandemic for winter horseback riding. You can wear them balaclava style under a riding helmet (which is much harder for winter hat + ear muffs or a thicker balaclava/ski mask).

    • masks

      I had to laugh a little at this, but I think it is a great idea. I never use a buff as intended, and my freezing neck/body would love it.

  7. Lingerie Shower

    I am doing a virtual bachelorette party later in the month for a close friend and we are doing a lingerie/loungewear shower portion. I strongly dislike buying my friends lingerie (feels so weird to me) so I typically buy a pretty kimono or satiny pajamas…something that feels a bit sexier than pjs but isn’t S E X Y.

    Anyway, I haven’t had to do this since college and I feel like now that we’re in our 30s we’ve aged out of VS. I need ideas on where to find cute, nice robes or pj sets that aren’t 1) absurdly expensive and 2) not frumpy or overly risqué. I was looking at Anthro but not sure…

    Budget would be $100 or less, maybeeeee up to $120. Thanks!

  8. Lila

    Any recommendations for hair stylists in Brooklyn, in the Park Slope / Prospect Heights / Downtown Brooklyn area? Last time I got a hair cut the stylist cut the layers with a razor and I really liked the outcome, so any places that do that would be great.

    • Hildy J.

      I went to Karen at Salon Bohemia for years and years but she started to have some personal issues and we weren’t communicating very well, and then they jacked up their prices without saying anything, so there was no longer a price differential for me (I live in Manhattan). That said, the salon is oriented toward all kinds of cultures and hair and definitely do razor cuts, so maybe someone there might be up your alley.

    • Anonymous

      My stylist opened her own space in Industry City, and she just has one chair and works alone, so it’s especially COVID-friendly. https://www.cottagebrooklyn.com/about
      I’m super cheap and used to go to Astor Place Hair (RIP) but she has converted me to more expensive cuts. She usually does dry cuts and really takes her time. She’s also realistic about what will work for me given my unwillingness to do things like blow dry etc – she listens and works with me.

      If that is too far, I’ve also had good experiences at Sara June.

      • Anon

        OMG Astor Place! I went there when I was just starting out. I was studying FinCin and all sorts of finance regulatory bank reporting type things then and the whole thing was surreal and bewildering. I guess it was the largest subterranean rent-a-chair place ever? And all cash. And a guy brings you over to someone and deposits you there and you get done. It was like the wild west and final exam hypos all over the place.

        Then I’d go to a nacho place by Cardozo’s law school and get amazing nachos for cheap. Good times!

        • Ellen

          Alan, my ex, went there all the time. I did not know that so many women went there too. Now I think he might have met someone there b/c he seemed to get his haircut alot, and he otherwise was a slob that rarely shaved or bathed. But his hair was always in place. What a sleaze bag Alan was.

    • Anonymous

      Salon 718 has a couple locations – two in Fort Greene and one in Prospect Heights. Christine is wonderful but I’ve never had a bad experience with any of the stylists.

  10. Anon

    Holy crap I do like working under my manager but for weeks now we’ve talking about one issue that needs to get resolved, and instead of just doing it and figuring out in one day my manager is so bogged down in the weeds…multiple meetings over six weeks, endless talking about it, overthinking it, more talking, etc. It does not require this much thought or energy! There’s nothing I hate more than meetings with no action.

    • Anon

      My supervisor has actual, clinically diagnosed OCD, not using this in an internet, casual usage way. What you described is one of the manifestations.

  11. Anonymous

    I hate to be a downer in the face of declining Covid numbers and the vaccine rollout but how worried are you about the variants? I’m worried that we are going to repeat the trajectory from last Fall when numbers shot up after a long gradual decline. Would love to get some science backed responses saying I’m wrong.

    • anon

      Fairly worried. They seem to be more dangerous and possibly more contagious. I hate being a Debbie Downer, but I’m starting to think we will never really be out of this.

      • Z

        Certainly more contagious, some may be more dangerous. There’s evidence that some vaccines are less effective on some variants, but still somewhat effective, which is better than nothing. Some vaccine companies are working on booster shots better suited to the variants. I think eventually we’ll start getting covid booster shots against whatever strain is expected to be prominent, just like how we deal with flu vaccines.

    • Anonymous

      I’m not. I refuse to borrow problems. There’s no evidence that the variants make the vaccines useless.

      • OP

        I don’t think I’m borrowing trouble. My partner and I are months away from having access to a vaccine, and our kids are even farther away from a vaccine. I just heard on the news that there are 2 confirmed cases of the UK variant in my county.

        • Anon

          We’ve got UK and SA strains nearby, but our R numbers keep dropping and ICU capacity is about 50%, so I feel like we can manage what comes next. We know so much more than we did last year. Age correlates with risk and the oldest and healthcare providers are getting vaccinated. The vaccine doesn’t have to be perfect, all it really needs to do is reduce risk of severe disease and death (like how the flu vaccine works) (in fact it seems much better) and scientists are working on it (much like with the flu — always tweaking it).

          We will get through this. Keep using your typical precautions and carry on.

    • Anon

      Viruses mutate; that is just what they do. And I don’t think that Corona is going away, I just think that we will manage better re spread (masking, distancing, hand washing, air exchange inside). We will eventually get to some sort of basic herd immunity so pockets are easier to ID and stamp out, with fewer severe cases. I think we may be making for a good while, but I am OK with that if we can just continue opening up.

    • Cat

      Personally, not very. My office (and husband’s) has already announced we are continuing to WFH through the summer, the older people in our immediate families have had the vaccine, and mask compliance is good for the in-person errands we run. We only see one household indoors without masks on – my (now vaccinated) parents.

      For society in general – COME ON people. It might be a more contagious variant, but it’s still a lot harder to spread if you aren’t mingling with other people inside! We are SO CLOSE.

    • Anonymous

      I’m worried for society, less for myself, but what can I do. I’m already as locked down as I can get and it’s clear that NOTHING, absolutely nothing, will get some people to take this seriously – not death of their own mothers, not job loss, not pleas, not financial incentives. They have wrecked things for all of us and there is nothing we can do, although I wish that some of the extreme cases (like gym owners who refuse to shut down for even one day even as their gyms become superspreader hosts) would be charged with reckless endangerment.

      As for science, the variants are a problem because we have too much transmission/spread. Since we failed to control that, the virus basically has enough “energy” to mutate. The more spread we have, the more it can mutate, potentially outpacing the vaccines.

    • Betsy

      I’m short term worried, long term not worried. The immunity response induced by the vaccine is stronger than the immunity you get after having the virus, and in most cases is still going to be strong enough to keep you from getting severely ill with the current mutations. I’ve seen a lot of scientists suggesting that the mutations are the reason that Johnson and Johnson’s vaccine trial numbers aren’t quite as impressive as Moderna/Pfizer’s, but they still prevented anyone from dying of the covid cases they did get. I’m more worried about the number of unvaccinated people in the next couple months who will get sick because of the more contagious mutations. Consequently, I am currently doubling down on all the precautions I’ve been taking. Once vaccines are available to all age groups, I think the mutations are no big deal. The vaccine makers will be able to easily swap out the vaccine to match the current prevalent strains of covid, much like they currently do for the flu vaccine. I suspect we will be getting Covid booster shots somewhat regularly in the future.

      Once vaccines came out, my expectation was that my life would get back to normal-ish this summer. That’s still my expectation, but now I think it might be closer to Labor Day than Independence Day.

      • Anon

        Exactly this- I’m a scientist with a background in microbiology and ecology and evolutionary biology. I think we should be doing everything we can in the short term to reduce viral reproduction and get vaccines out as fast as possible, since we very well might see another spike due to the variants, but ultimately vaccines will work well to reduce cases and minimize serious effects and deaths, though probably not eliminating them completely, just like flu.

    • Anon

      A little concerned but not super worried. The variants are already spreading in the U.S., it’s inevitable. But on the positive side, the vaccine so far has been shown to be effective in preventing severe covid and hospitalizations across the board, and still pretty high on preventing symptomatic infection (about as high as your average flu shot).
      The more people that are vaccinated, the fewer vectors the virus has to spread. And on the super super good news, MRNA vaccines are much easier to change and manufacturers are already testing booster shots for the variants. By the time the vaccine gets to you, you might actually get a shot that is tweaked for the variants.

    • anon

      I’m concerned about the variant that seems more transmissible in children and/or more dangerous in children. School opening is already hugely controversial, but it’s pretty clear that (a) children not being in school is harmful to their learning, their mental health, and in many cases, their physical health, (b) vaccines for children are years away, and not everyone would vaccinate their kids, and (c) school won’t be able to open if there’s a variant that is more infectious and more dangerous for kids. Another year of kids not being in school would break so many parents. More importantly, it would mean that many kids had 3 out of 13 years of their education disrupted, which would have huge long-term effects on that generation and on society.

    • Anon

      When I watch the news and epidemiologists say they’re very concerned about the variants, then I become very concerned. One on MSNBC said she was as concerned now as she was at the beginning of the pandemic.

    • Anonymous

      For those watching closely, when are the variants expected to become the “main” strains in the US – like people are more likely to catch those than last years strain? If this varies, I’m in the NYC-DC corridor. And how will we be on vaccinations by that time? I know the vaccines aren’t perfect but some protection is better than none.

      • Anon

        The US is not testing extensively for variants. So not only do we not know which variants are most common here, it’s possible that there are new variants that first mutated in the US that no one has identified: we’re not really checking for that.

      • Anon

        Microbiologist here again. The biggest problem is that we are doing a very poor job of genomic sequencing to test for variants, both the known ones and new mutations. It turns out that somewhere around half of cases in CA are already a new variant that may be more transmissible, but we don’t really know. It’s very clear that we’re seeing the same types of mutations independently arise in different places and then become common (convergent evolution), so as long as we let the virus run rampant, we’re just going to see more of this. We’re now in a very dangerous place where selective pressure on the virus is very high because a lot of people have some immunity, but a lot of people still don’t and cases are really high. This means we REALLY need to do everything we can to reduce transmission during this time until more people have vaccinations and there’s less virus around to generate new mutations. I’m confident that vaccines will ultimately deal with this pretty well, but the short term has the potential to be bad.

  12. no

    It is my the adoptaversary of my dog! My sole companion through this pandemic (and frankly the years before) I usually get him a toy, one of those silent squeaker ones but recently he has been less interested in those and other stuffed toys. He’s never been a fan of bones either. Ideas for something different? Any new toy out there your pup recommends?

    • Anonymous

      My dog hates all toys that she is supposed to pick up, carry around, or gnaw on. She loves the Outward Hound Brick Puzzle Game toy.

    • Curious

      My dog hates all toys that she is supposed to pick up, carry around, or gnaw on. She loves the Outward Hound Brick Puzzle Game toy.

    • Anon

      Happy Gotcha Day to you and your pup! What about a special treat like a pup cup from a local coffee place or something from a doggie bakery if you have one near you?

    • Anonymous

      My dog loves a hamburger with no bun from a drive thru — he loves it so much, he barks at the order board!

    • Friday

      Happy adoptaversary to your pup! Mine has passed one but liked the toy squirrel designed for cats (I think you can get it on Amazon), and while he never got into bones he enjoyed a pig’s ear. Assuming he already has a kong? I bought mine two kongs, both of which were stolen out of our back yard… and yes I realize that’s a ridiculous sentence.

      • pugsnbourbon

        Our girl loves it when we stick a nylabone into a kong – she can grip the kong with her paws and then go to town on the bone.

    • From my Girl

      My girl recommends a Paw5 snuffle mat! Look up PAW5: Wooly Snuffle Mat.

      She loves it with dry-freeze liver treats, broke up little fish skins, or little pieces of seaweed snacks.

      Second suggestion is a LickiMat! Favorites on that are frozen yogurt (like Fage), frozen bananas, frozen PBs.

    • Anonymous

      Happy gotcha-dog day!

      My guy likes hollee balls. You can put things in them for him to get out. I usually out his daily dental chew in one. Sometimes I roll treats in a little cloth and stuff that in the ball (he is good about not eating fabric), sometimes I put a little hollee ball inside the big one to make it more of a challenge.

  13. Hair dye

    For those of you who dye your hair at the salon, is there a specific brand that you request? I just started coloring my greys at the salon and both times, I got a terrible headache. I don’t know if it is related to the hair dye but it did have kind of a strong smell that didn’t go away until the next day when I washed my hair (even then, there was still a faint smell). The salon is a higher end place so I am sure they are using good products but I didn’t know if I should request something specific (like chemical free or organic??) next time.

    • Anon

      You definitely can’t dye your hair without chemicals. There may be less astringent options but they probably don’t work as well.

    • anon

      I have never encountered a hair dye that didn’t smell, even at a high-end salon. I think you’re SOL.

    • eertmeert

      I go to an Aveda salon. The dye is still smelly, but it the dyes are up to 99% naturally-derived, and my hair really likes it.

      • Anon

        To me Aveda smells more like a barn than like the kind of very strong artificial smelling scents that trigger migraines for me. My issue isn’t with the smell, but with the headaches, so I am fine with Aveda.

    • Shananana

      My salon uses schwarzkopf products and I am always super impressed by how much they don’t give me headaches and burn my eyes, when they switched to something else it was noticeable and they eventually switched back. Harder to search for if you don’t want to change salons, but if I were to ever leave my current one I would be looking for a salon who used the same line.

      • Ness

        I use that too
        or Color touch (Wella) both amonia free and they perfectly cover my greys (10%)

    • MagicUnicorn

      I am talking with zero personal experience with coloring hair, but maybe look into henna instead of dye?

    • waffles

      My experience is that salon colour actually smells MORE than home dye. If bleach or other lighteners are involved, the smell/burning can be even worse. If you’re super sensitive to smell, a temporary home colour that is darker than your natural colour (ie doesn’t require bleach) would be the least offensive, I think.

  14. Anonymous

    Is anyone else nervous about the idea of getting a covid vaccine in a grocery store/pharmacy? I know they say that’s how they’ll be pushed out to most people and now with CVS starting to come on board in a handful of states next week (beyond the 4-5 states they’re in now), I think the idea will take off. Yet I’m hearing stories of people taking elderly parents to grocery store pharmacies and finding other seniors lined up in the aisles and instead of in and out in 15 minutes, it was more like 1-2 hours. It’s not that people without appointments showed up, it’s that there was 1 or maybe 2 pharmacists registering people, running person to person to give shots; some people distancing in the aisles, others not, others jumping in to grab their ice cream because it’s their shopping day; people ended up getting nervous about being around SO many people so instead of waiting there, people ended up scattering around the store to wait 15 min before leaving.

    As someone who goes to the grocery store once in 3 weeks, that sounds awful and kind of risky, no? I’m in a high risk group that’s eligible now but no county/mega site (where I’d prefer to go – because they are bigger venues so you naturally have more distance and they’re run by health systems which are strict on no one coming in with you, standing where you’re told to stand etc.) in my state is booking high risk groups until they make their way further into the 65 and 75+ groups. It’s understandable on the part of the state, but it means that if you are going to get a high risk appt from the state it’ll be prob 1-2 months from now OR you could try your hand at the retail stores daily (as they’re booking all phases that have been called, no preference to seniors). What’s your comfort level here? I’d double mask (kn95 + cloth or surgical) but IDK I can also see myself freaking out if I’m asked to stand on line with 50 people in a grocery aisle.

    • Anonymous

      Isn’t there a good chance you will wait in line at any vaccine site? I don’t see how drug stores are much worse.

    • Seventh Sister

      I spend a lot of time (probably too much) buying stuff at CVS and have gotten flu shots there most years (other years I’ve gone to our work clinic). Their pharmacies have good online systems – like most chains, they are highly automated. I don’t think I’ve waited more than a couple minutes for a flu shot. People are constantly going in and out of that kind of store, and the doors being opened constantly must help some with air circulation. If you have a good mask on and use hand sanitizer, it’s probably going to be fine.

    • Anonymous

      Then don’t get! Honestly this sort if whining aggravates me. Sorry they aren’t distributing it exactly perfectly.

      • Anonymous

        Seriously, what’s your opposition to collapsing the thread? Legit question.

        OP, stick with your double-mask plan and try to space out as much as you can. It’s the best you can do.

      • Anonymous

        It’s not whining because of inconvenience, it’s high risk people weighing risk vs benefit. Do you NEED to be rude??

        Op – I have the same concern but really CVS is the only retailer I feel ok about. They have been planning for this since last fall, have hired etc; I know people who have been assigned to CVS as contract nurses for this. I think the lines out the door scenarios are more where grocery stores etc that don’t do mass vaccines even like flu signed on. Practically should you be lucky enough to see appointments in the CVS system on the day it opens in your state, I’d say unless you can get an early appointment on day 1, try to sign on for an appointment a few days into their distribution (the stores on deck for next week are getting a few hundred doses max but I don’t imagine they can do all of those in one day). I think by day 3-4 they’ll work out their system, whether that’s people lined up outside and only x people inside at once or whatever.

        • Lilau

          Fwiw, my dad and grandmother were vaccinated yesterday in a non- chain local drugstore\ five and dime. The only hassle, according to my dad, was worrying about my 96 year old grandmother walking from the parking lot with all the snow and ice. They were in and out in 20 minutes. That seems preferable to the Javits center to me.

        • Anon

          I hope everyone realizes how hard your county government is working to have safe and equitable distribution. It’s very hard to do. I have friends working on this and wow it’s hard and wow they’re working non stop.

    • anon

      If there were really 50 people in a line (that seems maybe a little exaggerated?), I wouldn’t feel amazing during the actual time standing there, but I would do it because the benefit would outweigh the risk for me. In your shoes, since you are clearly concerned (no judgment from me–we all have different risk calculations and are entitled to our feelings), I would go scope out the pharmacy you have in mind now, before making an appointment, and see what the line situation is like. Just pop in for 2 minutes and leave. Maybe your spot isn’t as bad as the worst-case scenario you’ve been hearing about. If there is a long line, I’d leave, then call when I get home and ask if there’s a time of day they tend not to have lines and see if I could get an appointment then. Repeat at other locations, if available, as necessary. Good luck!

    • Anon

      Similar to how rediclinics are done, there will likely be appointment times because a 15 minute wait is required after the shot do to potential allergy reaction. I wouldn’t worry too much about lines out the door for a covid vaccine at the local pharmacy.

    • masks

      So, yeah it is not ideal. Think of the disabled seniors trying to stand for 1-2 hours… Yes, I would double mask, wear gloves and carry hand sanitizer.

      CVS is actually vaccinating our seniors now, and they are doing drive through. You could look for one of those.

      Sometimes you have to just deal. Maybe take an ativan before you go. You are so lucky, in so many ways…..

    • Z

      I think what would make sense is having people check in then wait outside in their car while they wait for their turn.

      Walgreens has been pretty quick about giving covid tests through the drive through, I don’t think it would take much longer for a person to get vaccinated (especially since they’ll be registering online). FWIW my sister works at a pharmacy and they are piloting on-site vaccinations this week. They’ll certainly work out issues as they go.

    • Anonymous

      Not nervous at all. My local CVS doesn’t even allow 50 people in, much less stand on line. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.

    • Seventh Sister

      Related: my mom is a pharmacist, and I’m a big fan of pharmacists. They are level-headed problem solvers who are way, way smarter than you might imagine if you don’t know one well. They are going to stick you with the needle and get you out of there ASAP. Honestly, ask the pharmacist if it’s OK to wait the 15 minutes in your car. They should be fine with that, and it’s not like they can stop you from leaving!

  15. Anonymous

    I have an interview today for a role that’s a big change away from my current job, and I’m nervous!! Send me your good vibes!

  16. Dating question

    Asking on behalf of my brother, who is doing online (app-based) dating for the first time at 45 – what are your expectations about when/how you communicate with someone you meet on an app. E.g., do you expect to start texting or emailing or phone calling within a certain period of time? Do you expect to try to meet up in person in a certain amount of time? My brother is being super cautious about COVID, which is great but adds a layer of complications I can’t even imagine, and the whole online dating world is completely different then when I did this 10 years ago (using websites and no smart phone). He’s worried about being too forward, not forward enough, etc. I’m especially interested to hear from women in their 30s and 40s. Thanks in advance for any advice!

    • No Problem

      This will be really variable from person to person, but I can tell you what I would expect as a mid-30s woman. I would expect to chat in the app for a day or two and if we seem to be having a good time and have a bit of a connection somewhere in there make arrangements to meet in person for a very casual first date. Nowadays that would mean a walk together, or meeting on a park bench for a brief chat (maybe BYO coffee or something). But I also refuse to give out my phone number or email address to someone I haven’t met in person, so I basically unmatch from anyone insisting on texting outside the app or corresponding over email. It’s fine if he wants to move to texting, but don’t be surprised – or upset! – if women say they don’t want to do that without meeting first. Basically, if the chat is going well, ask her out, but keep expectations low. Don’t ask her to dinner at a fancy restaurant where it’s going to be a 2 hour meal and drop $100 (assuming outdoor dining is a thing where he is). Coffee and a chat for a half hour or hour is fine – really! And importantly – keep chatting between making date arrangements and the actual date! Don’t just agree to meet on Tuesday and then go silent for four days.

      • Anonymous

        This is so interesting. I was unwilling to meet anyone in person I hadn’t talked to or emailed with first.

        • No Problem

          Different strokes for different folks! That’s why her brother should avoid being insistent on one thing or another (talk or email first, vs. meet in person first) and let the woman take the lead. But really, I’ve had enough creeps emailing or texting me who can’t take no for an answer, so I just prefer them not be able to contact me outside the app or know my full name until we’ve met for a low-key date. That first date weeds out a lot of men.

      • CountC

        My approach as a woman in her early 40s is very similar. I go a lot on gut re: giving a phone number in advance of meeting in person. It’s rare, but it has happened. So far, with no ill effects.

        Something that will be frustrating for your brother to hear is that my approach varies based on my gut response to the person. If I click and have a positive gut feel, I am more likely to give out my phone number and meet in person more quickly. If am on the fence a little, I will want to get to know the person a bit more on the app by messaging before I meet them.

        My best advice is for him to be himself and be true to what he is feeling. If he wants to suggest meeting in person, he should. If he wants to offer up his phone number to text, with the understanding the woman may not reciprocate of be comfortable with it, he should. If the woman is feeling similarly, I suspect she will be open to his suggestions (assuming he is not being unrealistic).

    • Anonymous

      In your interest group.

      I find covid app dating almost impossible, because I don’t enjoy getting to know somebody through app messaging. I prefer to very quickly meet and see people (preferably with potential for gardening), and currently that’s not practical for cautious behaviour where I live. So this sucks.

      I think my best advice for your brother would be to ask the people he connects, I like that. First he must assume that no woman will give him her full name, phone number, address or work place until well after a first meeting, for safety reasons, and assume that any video calls or phone call will have to be through an anonymous set-up, and that he has no reason to feel slighted if women expect this. If he’s a good guy, it’s not about him. But if he feels a connection after a few messages and wants to follow up, he can ask her what kind of communication she prefers or enjoys the most. Would she prefer to meet for a short walk or coffee, or keep messaging for a while – he is comfortable with x and y, wants to make sure they are on the same page covid wise, etc. The point being not to push for a meeting (or video or phone calls), but present options and respect for choices.

      • CountC

        On the different strokes point – I won’t meet anyone who hasn’t given me a full legal name and I always reciprocate. I like to do a quick search to confirm the person is real and to give my girlfriends a full name, as well as where and when I am meeting the person in case something were to happen. This is the frustrating part of online dating (well any dating really) – every person is different and has different comfort levels!

        • Anonymous

          Agreed! Knowing your own comfort levels are key. I think for me the eureka moment was realizing I have zero interest in a slow build-up compared to knowing how somebody smell and carry themselves. If I don’t feel physically comfortable with somebody, no amount of messaging will help.

    • Anonymous

      No timeline comments because I think that’s very individual. My only hard line is that any key personal life situation must be disclosed before first in person meet. Things like children or a divorce, no need for details but just saying that they exist so the other party can make an informed decision. It’s so inappropriate to trick someone into a date by withholding information.

    • Anonymous

      Where is he? Is he nice? Does he have a job? Does he know how to take care of himself? Does he want kids?

      Asking for myself.

      • Anon

        Not the OP but I LOVE this. Please reply so we can have a matchmaking subthread!

  17. for the Friend of the Bride

    A few more comments on yesterday’s discussion, as someone also getting married at an older age than my friends, also during this pandemic. First, I’ll say that I think as a bride right now you get to be stubborn only about either: 1) getting married now, or 2) having everyone you love attend; both just isn’t realistic. I’m choosing option 1), and I’ll be getting married on that date no matter what, even as I’m sad that many people I love just won’t be able to be there. What’s really touched me, though , are the friends who’ve tried to recognize and celebrate this milestone with me, even if they can’t attend. Cards, small gifts, wanting to discuss wedding shoe details with me, and other silly things to convey that even if they can’t come, they want to celebrate with me. That my wedding (even if it’s 10 years later than all of theirs….) still matters! That they are so happy that after years of being knocked around by the seas of modern dating, I finally found my person! That they know (maybe even in a deeper way than we knew when we were 25) what a joy and a gift it is to find a true partner in life! And, I want to celebrate with THEM, because I know they are the ones that kept me sane during the hard spells, and brought me times of laughter and joy, and reminded me that I was a person who could love and be worthy of love. So, I encourage you to send a gift or card now, and let her know that as soon as it’s safe you want to CELEBRATE with her. For me, one of the best parts of this is actually that now I’m looking forward to several small celebrations with good friends. As an introvert I might like that even better than one big party:-)

    • Anonymous

      Congratulations on your upcoming marriage! I love your attitude. If I were your friend, I’d be eager to celebrate with you once it’s safe. You deserve a real celebration that is truly joyful and doesn’t have the cloud of a pandemic hanging over it.

    • Anonymous

      Really good thoughts. I’m in the same boat, and I’ll add as something of a PSA, it’s actually not awesome to tell couples they can always have a big party later, unless they say something that invites that comment. I’m perfectly happy to have a small celebration. The day I get married is going to be special no matter what. I don’t really like the implication – unprompted – that it’s obviously not good enough and I have to do something else later. My marriage is not a consolation prize.

      • Anonymous

        Congratulations on your engagement! I also wanted a small celebration and understand where you are coming from. If it had been up to me, we’d have eloped.

        However–I don’t see anyone here telling brides that they can always have a big celebration later unless the bride is whining that people don’t want to attend one now.

        • Anonymous

          Thanks! I didn’t mean to suggest anyone here was saying that, my comment was more in the vein of – how to be a good friend to a bride planning her wedding during a pandemic.

      • Anon

        You’re getting upset about nothing.

        There are absolutely people who believe that it’s about the party and not the marriage. However, that’s not what you’re being told. A lot of people are receiving a lot of flak for wanting a big party after the pandemic is over. Pre-pandemic, the social rules were that the wedding and the reception should be close in time (if you want to, for example, elope and hold a reception a month later, no one looks too askance), not that you get married in October 2020 and throw a big bash in March 2022. Big receptions well after the wedding look like gift grabs, not celebrations. Unfortunately, there are people out there who get their noses out of joint about being asked to celebrate well after the wedding, when the entire reason for the separation is a pandemic that has killed millions of people.

        Your friends are telling you that no matter what you choose, they are there to celebrate, not judge whatever hard choices you have to make during this time.

        • Anon

          Anyone who thinks a big wedding is gift grab did not have one. That ROI does not work out.

    • Anonymous

      Congratulations on your wedding.
      I made the same choice. I had a specific meaningful date I wanted to be married on, and no desire for a huge wedding. I just wanted a tiny ceremony and a nice dinner and evening with my friends and family. I had a lovely park ceremony with just the two of us, and it was perfect and let us fully concentrate on each other and no one else.
      Plus, I can have the reception part anytime. At this point, a 1 year anniversary party seems doable and perfect. I may even do a joint party with my sister who wasn’t able to have a full wedding when she got married due to her circumstances at the time. (My one concern with a joint party is her in-laws are numerous and ..challenging).

    • Senior Attorney

      Congratulations on your marriage and also on being a level-headed, sensible person! :)

    • Anon

      I would be delighted as a friend to celebrate you now safely and later however you want. I’ll discuss shoe details, every piece of food you are going to serve,throw you a virtual shower etc. i love celebrating my friends! What i don’t love is being made to feel like a terrible friend bc I’m unwilling to attend a wedding in the middle of a pandemic. Kind of like the time i was told by the bride’s sister when the fact that i couldn’t spend 1k on a bachelorette party in Disney World when i was just out of grad school and searching for a job meant that i didn’t care about the friendship.

  18. Anon

    I’m the only one of my high school / college friends who works in the public sector. Normally it’s no big deal, but sometimes I just have to laugh at what different lives we lead. Some recent examples:

    – I have a “good” government job, but over 6 years after graduation, I still make almost 10k less than the average starting salary for my university.
    – My friend’s annual bonus is more than my salary.
    – a friend was recently talking about how business is booming in her industry, meanwhile my local health department laid off staff this year.
    – a friend was talking about the stipend provided by her company during wfh for equipment and was shocked I didn’t get one too (we pay for our own coffee at work, not sure why she thought I’d get money to set up a home office!). I bought a few things (desk, chair and monitor – about $350 total) and paid out of pocket. It wasn’t a huge amount, but I also make 30k less than this friend. I also still cannot work from home full time. Usually when I do go into work it’s overnight shifts or on weekends because I work in an office with 24/7 requirements.

    I generally like what I do and am okay with the choices made , but some of these conversations really make me question if it’s worth it.

    • Anon

      *obviously I realize all private sector is not like the examples provided above. I just laugh because it’s so normal to me to buy my own pens/notebooks/coffee/have to pay for our holiday party (in non covid times) etc at work, I often truly forget that others don’t!

    • Anon

      Yep, they’re different. I think the important, and definitely not always easy, thing to do is remind yourself that salaries aren’t the same thing as worth. And to be able to vent about it, too, when you need to. Maybe to friends from work and not these particular friends.

      • Anon

        Thanks for the reminder that it’s ok to commiserate ! A lot of times I feel like I can’t because I chose this.

    • Anon

      Fellow government employee here with commiseration. I have also bought my own equipment and supplies while WFH and sometimes even when in the office (particularly dire budget years). Sometimes it is hard not to get bummed. I try to remind myself that I was in the private sector and chose this path, as well as the reasons I made and continue to make this choice.

      • Anon

        Yes! We get new office supplies twice a year, so between orders I have to buy my own pens and notebooks

    • Sloan Sabbith

      A big law friend of mine once complained to me that he and his wife live “paycheck to paycheck” because they were choosing to pay 2-4x his required student loan amount per month so they could pay it off faster and her salary covered the house payment for a house they’d just bought in a fancy neighborhood and daycare. At the time, I had a job with a gross salary of $45K per year and could barely afford necessities, much less extra loan payments. I don’t disbelieve him they had very little left over at the end of the month but it didn’t settle well with me that he truly thought they were living paycheck to paycheck.

      • Bonnie Kate

        This is probably the Midwest upbringing in me showing, but I cannot imagine complaining about money details to basically anyone, in particular to friends who clearly have a different income level. I have very close friends that I talk about with almost everything in my life, but money particulars – no. It just seems so insensitive and, as my grandmother would say, uncouth.

        • Anon

          I think there are people who know this social norm, but whatever psychological need drives these attempts to commiserate just overcomes it. For all I know, this is why we needed the social norm in the first place. But it’s a cliche that a guy who is feeling broke because of the second house, the private school tuition, the trips abroad will attempt to commiserate with their server or barista over it.

        • Anon

          Yes – I only discuss actual numbers with coworkers. Our salaries are a) lockstep and b) publicly available so some work-friends and I discuss finances. I’d never do that with other friends.

          We make the same low amount, we gave to live within a certain distance from work so rent is similar-ish, we all have student loans*, etc so our finances are not super different.

          * it’s interesting to me that at work, everyone I knew grew up working class and most of our parents are also public sector (and those that aren’t are teachers, nurses, pastors, etc)

      • Anon

        Like that poster the other week who was concerned she may not be able to buy a house making 300k a year…give me a break.

    • bellatrix

      I’m not even in the public sector and can tick most of these boxes. (Journalism –> marketing.) I started my final summer internship three days after college graduation, then had maybe 10 days between the end of the internship and the start of my FT job, which I used for moving — while some of my friends had jobs locked up six months before graduation, got a signing bonus, and didn’t need to report to work until fall. (Ah, the late ’90s, the golden days of startups and consulting firms.) So yeah – I like what I do and considering my field, I’m doing pretty well, but when I look at other paths, sometimes I wonder.

      • anne-on

        Bwahaha, yup, undergrad degree in communications, and starting salaries were less than my tuition was at the time with usually no benefits. I got one job offer for 21k at a highly desired employer (think NBC/ABC/Scripps Network/etc. who pay pennies because everyone wants those jobs) and turned tail and ran for marketing with it’s comparatively cushy $30-$45k starting salaries and health care!!

    • Anonymous

      Not all government jobs are bad! I make way more than my peers, I got a WFH furniture stipend, plus amazing benefits, vacation time, pension etc.

    • Anon

      I work in nonprofits. I make what I consider to be a fine salary. I can support myself and I’m happy with the choices I’ve made. Then I come here and read about lawyers who make my annual salary in their bonus and are still concerned about money being tight and I just laugh and laugh so I don’t cry.

      • Anon

        Yes! I’ve been in government my entire career, except for one stint at a non profit.

        I loved the famous Boston area poster who was “middle class” making 250k HHI… my field has poor work/life balance, so many people are married to others in the field. Which means that HHI for many of my friends is like 100-125k. In a major city.

    • Anon

      I think it might make you feel better to look at hours worked when you’re doing these comparisons. Everyone on here who talks about doing a government job seems to be doing it for set hours and work life balance. I know when I was killing it in a F50 private sector job I had no personal life at all. Like, couldn’t take more than a week off at a time for 20 years, took conference calls on vacation, routinely flew on the weekends so that all weekday hours were available for work. I did make those big bonuses then, but I certainly earned them.

      • Anon

        I wish I was working set hours! I’m in an “emergency role” so I work the hours needed to get the job done – I’ve had plenty of 70-90 hour weeks and worked many, many nights/weekends/holidays.

        I’m on call in addition to this (1 week a month) , and so have to answer my phone on the first ring, must be available 24/7. There’s no compensation for being on call either. Even when not on call, I’m frequently checking/responding to emails and messages at night/on weekends.

        Some of this is OT eligible, but not all of it (and even then – I worked 11 hours last Sunday and made an extra $200)

        Low pay, no perks, and not great work/life balance definitely make it tough. I love the mission, but I wish HR/leadership realized loving the mission only takes us so far…

    • Cornellian

      I’m also in the public sector, and gross about 30% of what I did in the private sector (~20% of what I would now be making at my old job). I have moments like this, but having been on the other side helps me remember why I made the move and why it’s worth it. I have started getting more serious about trying to create small additional streams of income in order to make sure I can keep doing the public job for as long as I want.

      I think money can be discussed in a very uncouth or tonedeaf way, but I generally wish women talked about salaries and investing more! We ask for smaller raises, and end up with less saved at retirement (with more dependents) on average.

  19. Boodles

    Looking for something that may not exist: a stylish, mid-century modern desk chair that is also comfortable. My current MCM desk chair was not purchased with 100% WFH in mind.

    • Shelle

      If you’re not having any luck, I made a cheap Ikea dining chair work by adding an ergonomic memory foam seat cushion and back cushion. It solved the back pain I was starting to develop. Good luck!

  20. PolyD

    Just a silly comment/question, but robes – I do not get. Granted, I live in an apartment that basically never gets cold, and heat is included, but I would never wear a robe because the sleeves are usually all huge and floppy, and the ones that wrap around and tie with a belt never stay closed.

    I schlump around in sweat/yoga pants/leggings and a zip-open (cardigan, not pullover style) sweatshirt or fleece jacket depending on how cold I feel. With a tee underneath – layers that come off easily are essential for hot flashes.

    So I guess I’m just wondering how robe afficiandos manage without dragging the sleeves through things or having the robe come open at unfortunate moments.

    • Anon

      I only wear a robe if I shower in the morning while I’m getting ready. I’ll put on a robe and wear that when I’m brushing teeth / making breakfast / doing skincare/hair/make up, because I like getting dressed last. If I don’t workout and shower in the morning, I just do all of that in PJs

      I have a robe with 3/4 sleeves so they don’t get in the way. It’s a tie front robe, but it doesn’t really come undone. I tie it tight, but also only really wear it for 15 mins or so in the morning.

    • Anon

      There’s nothing my sleeves are going to get dragged through when I’m on the couch reading or when I’m walking around my apartment getting ready in the morning. I don’t think that’s a real problem. My robe stays tied pretty well but if my husband or cat get a peak of something, that’s nbd.

    • Abby

      I recently became a robe-loving person and mine has a tie on the inside and then a big one that goes around my waist, so it doesn’t come apart. I mainly love it because I air dry my hair, so on days I wash my hair, I put on my robe and don’t worry about my shoulders and back getting wet. As for the sleeves..I’m usually just sitting on the couch watching tv when it’s robe time so I don’t need my arms except to reach for my glass of wine.

      • PolyD

        I am fairly certain I would tip over a wine glass with the sleeves, but then again, I mostly drink bourbon in a rocks glass, less tippy.

        • Abby

          The sleeves of mine aren’t super baggy! It’s the Carole Hochman one from costco.

    • No Problem

      Most robes have an internal tie to keep them in place. The fabric also matters: one of mine is fleece and stays in place without the internal tie, whereas my other one that is a smoother material will not.

      I only wear my robe while I’m in my PJs. So in the morning when I just got up but don’t feel like putting on clothes yet, or at night after putting on PJs but not being ready for bed yet. I’m usually not doing anything that would drag the sleeves through things. If I do a sink full of dishes, I’ll roll up the sleeves. I don’t need to roll them up to pour a bowl of cereal or brush my teeth. Also my robes are machine washable, so if I do get something on one (more likely a dribble of food on the front), I just throw it in with my next load of laundry.

    • Anon

      I agree – I can’t get robes to stay closed and comfortable. I’ve never had one that didn’t slide around.

    • Senior Attorney

      I have a robe I love and I actually took it to the tailor and had the sleeves shortened so they are the proper length on my little T-Rex arms. And it wraps and ties securely because it’s cotton waffle weave.

    • Anonymous

      Do you live alone? Because I was meh about robes for years until I had kids. Then it became an important part of my getting ready routine. How else would I fly out of the bathroom to break up fights and not be naked?

    • Bonnie Kate

      I got my robe a few years ago when I moved to a cabin that was cold in the morning for another layer. I still use it – it’s something to throw on right away in the morning. I sleep naked, so the soft robe feels nice and is faster than putting on clothes to let out the dog, go the bathroom, meditate, get my morning hot water, etc. I typically do right away morning things than get dressed for work (weekdays) or change into lounge clothes similar to yours (weekends).

      I haven’t had any problems dragging the sleeve through things. I don’t even think about this.

    • CountC

      Honestly? I buy children’s robes. The sleeves are shorter, they are cheaper, and they come in fun ridiculous prints/hoods. I only wear one between showering and getting dressed, so when I dry my hair, put my makeup on, and generally putter around during that time frame. Mine does not have an inside tie, but I don’t have an issue with it coming untied. I think the material makes a huge difference. Slick fabrics are not going to stay tied IMO.

    • Ribena

      I live in a 130 year old building in Scotland – so mine (thick and cushy like a blanket) goes on over my pyjamas when I get out of bed or over my towel if I take a while to get properly dressed after a shower.

    • anon

      Following with interest. If I could find one that isn’t a total pain in the neck to wear, I think I’d enjoy having one to throw on over my pajamas. I have an ancient terry cloth robe that I will sometimes wear after a shower, but I do not enjoy wearing it layered with anything else. It’s simultaneously too loose and too restrictive.

    • Anon

      I also hate robes because of the floppy sleeves and the belt coming untied. Drives me crazy. I don’t even own a robe. I shower at night so I just put on my pyjamas after.

    • Anon

      I wear my robe out of the shower while doing skincare/makeup/hair and then I change into real clothes. For lounging I wear some sort of cardigan or fleece jacket.

    • Cornellian

      This winter I’ve been trying to bring my utilities bill down and keep the house 65 during the day. I found that my cheap maternity robe has been really helpful because it covers half my legs, more than a sweatshirt or cardigan would. I often have a robe on top of my sweater, undershit, pants and socks.

  21. Anon

    Knot-tying help! Scouts is our only kid activity happening (no school even, still). They need adult helpers and I am happy to pitch in to keep this going. I know nothing about scouting and cannot tie knots. If you have been a scout or scout parent, is there a good way to learn it so I am a few steps ahead of the kids (who may know some things better than me) and not introduce anything wrong?

    I am getting weird method-acting vibes internally — like I need to know the motivation of when you would use a given knot, what it does, when it is good to use (and when not), type of rope, etc. Many seem to be nautical (I do not do more than canoe and kayak) or related to climbing (which I do under the supervision of people who know what they are doing).

    Someone knows this — is there a YouTube channel or other thing that is good for desk-job adults?

      • Anonymous

        YouTube has too many options — I like REIs for compass orienteering but don’t know a good way to filter for knots. Everyone thinks that their video is good. And I need good-for-novice (esp a curious adult).

      • Emma

        Former sailing instructor here. There are a ton of Youtube channels I am sure, but I did this pre-Youtube so we had diagrams on a poster, which can easily be found on Google. If it helps, all knots have a purpose, a name, and a “story”. So you have knots that make a solid buckle, knots that stop things from going through other things, knots that tie two separate ropes together, etc. FYI (assume you know this but just in case), teaching a sliding knot is a big no-no for kids. You need two pieces of rope and scripts for the story (one rope is the snake, the other is the well, the snake goes through the well, around the tree, and back into the well… etc etc.) Then lots of practice.

        • Anonymous

          Thanks — yes — I really need to know the story. Otherwise, I have to look at the picture or requirement list (and also: we have some lefties).

    • anon

      No specific advice, but I think having two different colored ropes is really helpful. But I also fled the Cub Scout meeting in terror and sent older kid in there to help his sister learn the square knot.

      • Senior Attorney

        Ha, I still remember square knots: Right over left, left over right…

    • Anonymous

      I thought this was a wedding post!

      Is there a way you can help supervise but not be the teacher?

      • Anonymous

        Nope — literal knots! Like actual gardening Qs. In other times, there would be training for newbies and tons of people to learn from on the fly, but not this year. So I am winging it among people who have high hopes for me.

        I did invest in different types of multi-colored rope. I also have a tarp I can practice tying to trees to make a crude shelter and have tent stakes.

        • Sloan Sabbith

          I will be stealing the term “winging it among people who have high hopes for me.” This is what my job feels like half the time.

    • Ribena

      If they still make it I had the Klutz Guide to knots and learnt everything from that. It saw me through a sailing qualification ten years later!

      • pugsnbourbon

        Oh man, Klutz Guides! I hope they still make those. I think we had four or five.

    • Lots to Learn

      Fellow scout leader here. I think the most important thing for knots is to limit the number you do and make them relevant. I’d work with the leaders to make sure that they have a way to use the knots we taught. the two most important we did were square knot and clove hitch. Square knot for everything and clove hitch for clothesline / line to hang mess kit drip bags from. Teach, use, repeat again and again. I also bought clothesline, cut it, burned the ends so they wouldn’t fray, and then dipped each end in different colors. I looked online for best ways to teach the knots. We also did a wide game at the end where they had to find pieces of rope hidden in the woods, then tie together with square knots and had to use that to “rescue” a leader who had “fallen” down into a creek area. They got a kick out of it and it made it real.

      • Anon

        This is good. At first, So Many Knots. But it looks like 2 or 3 are the workhorse ones and ones are so specific that you can safely learn, test, forget.

    • Anon

      Usually colorway means a set of colors, like a striped garment or variegated yarn. The stripes may vary from navy blue to cerulean to light blue, so it would be a blue colorway.

      If it’s a single colored thing, then someone’s just trying to use a fancy word in place of a short one.

  23. Trish

    My son just broke up with his HS sweetie after almost 7 years. They started dating at 14, went to college together and got an apartment last year. The living together helped my son realize he wasn’t ready and I am broken hearted. We had a rough start but I was completely ready for her to be the mother of my grandchilden and she was part of our family, Christmas, vacations, dinners, etc. Just looking for hugs and commiseration on an anonymous platform.

    • Anonymous

      Awww hugs! It’s a hard thing when someone you love goes through a breakup like that. You’re sad for them, but glad they’re making hard choices they need to, but sad to be losing your own relationship too. All the hugs from me.

    • Seventh Sister

      I’m so sorry! You’re such a nice person. It meant a lot to me that my one of my high school boyfriend’s moms really, really liked me and took an interest in me and my plans. I always liked her and think of her fondly, even long after I broke up with him for a bunch of dramatic teenage reasons. It sucks but there are other fish in the sea.

      • Seventh Sister

        ^And while I’m glad I’m not married to my high school boyfriend, I still wish she was my MIL. I got a overly-controlling narcissist MIL (and her enabler husband) along with my great DH.

        • Trish

          Seventh Sister, That is one of the things she is so sad about. She is afraid she will get a mean MIL. I told her that wouldn’t happen but I know that really isn’t true. I hope she finds her true love and a new family. :(

          • Seventh Sister

            Trish, it could totally happen, but hopefully it won’t happen to her!

            I’m also convinced that everyone’s family has That One Person who is just dreadful. In my family, it’s my Aunt Anne. In my husband’s family, happened to be my MIL. Both my Aunt Anne and my MIL were constant irritants to me as a young person, but now that I’m older, I’m far more comfortable with minimal interactions. Do I wish my MIL was someone I enjoyed being around? Yes. Would I also like to have hair like Yasmin on Industry? Also yes. Neither of these things are happening.

    • Anon

      Completely fine to vent here and I have no doubt this is a loss to you too.

      But please, don’t be my mom – I divorced my high school sweetheart after two years of marriage, and I felt responsible for helping my mom deal with *her* grief over the ending of that relationship. Not fun. She also insisted on maintaining a friendly relationship with him – facebook friends, e-mails, Christmas cards etc. – even when the divorce went through some nasty patches, and long after I’d told her I was uncomfortable with her continuing to share updates about my life with him. Nothing in your post suggests you would do the same thing, but if your son is in an emotionally vulnerable place right now, even the perception that you’re not 100% on his side can feel pretty crummy.

      • Anon

        I agree with this. I’m the mom of a daughter who was dumped by her high school boyfriend. His parents were absolutely broken up about it, probably more than either half of the young couple! But you need to make this about your son. It’s his breakup. And you can’t stay in touch with the ex unless he does. You have to put your son first here. She has her own family and support group.

      • Cat

        You put this way better than I did (I tried to type this out a few times and gave up) – be proud of your son’s maturity that he didn’t just go along with the relationship because it’s easier than breaking up.

        Say you’re sorry he’s going through this, you are glad he did the right thing, if it *is* meant to be they’ll reconnect when they’re older (they are just 21 or 22 right?), and offer help with moving, packing, or just a place to come and not talk about it. And then – don’t try to stay in touch with her. No Facebook, Insta, anything.

      • Trish

        Yes, I agree with not putting an emotional burden on him. My son knows I am really sad but I have told him repeatedly that he made the right decision for him and that I support him. Plus, because he was on the lease with her, he moved in with us while he stills pays the rent until the lease is up. I told her she will never be erased in my heart and that I know she helped him grow up in many ways. Interestingly, my MIL continued a close relationship with my husband’s ex and it doesn’t bother me at all.

      • Anon

        Agree with this. My parents did a lot of damage to me by getting really upset and sad-pout-face every single time a relationship ended. They acted like I was betraying them when I broke up with someone – even if they had never met the guy!

        This might be a personal quirk of mine, but having known several people who married their high school sweethearts, it is, IMHO, a distinctly terrible idea. In high school, kids live the same life: same socioeconomic status, same classes, same friends, same life plans (college, right?), similar relationships with your families of origin (you live with them and either get along or don’t). Absent being rather unfortunate, they probably have not had a lot of adversity.

        Move forward five years and you’re on completely different life tracks with different beliefs, different friends, different ambitions, different ideas of what you want your adult life to look like, and different priorities in a relationship.

    • theguvnah

      yikes. Your son is 21 and you’re broken hearted he hasn’t found the mother of his children yet? Please let him breathe. Truly, this to me as an outsider looks absolutely smothering.

      • Abby

        this is pretty mean. She’s broken hearted that THIS PARTICULAR WOMAN is no longer going to be part of the family, not that she wants a DIL asap.
        OP – I think the above posters are right. You can grieve the loss of this relationship, but please make sure your son knows you’re in his corner. When I first met DH’s parents, I felt like I had to win them over from his ex-gf, also a high school sweetheart. My MIL and exgf frequently got lunch together, texted, etc and I felt very unwelcome for the first year or two in the relationship. If your son dated such a lovely girl in high school, he will find another woman who is just as wonderful.

      • Trish

        No. For five years, I was worried about him settling too soon with his first love – if you must know. I wanted him to travel and go out of state for graduate school and date other girls. But after it lasted that long, I completely embraced her and took her in my heart. I grew to love her and she was part of the family. She sees my husband and I as second parents. She was blindsided by him breaking up with her and I wish I took take away her pain. They never planned on having kids or getting marriage until after grad school but that is where they are heading. It feels like a divorce. There is always at least one person who has to be mean. You may need outside help if you feel the need to make things up about strangers. I appreciate all the other nice things everyone else said.

        • Anon

          It is wildly inappropriate to suggest that someone needs “outside help” because they are (bluntly) telling you that you sound overly invested in your kid’s romantic life.

        • Anon

          Gently, as I know you’re grieving right now, you may want to save this thread and come back to it later. I saw the post on Cmoms as well, and in all of your responses you’ve mentioned HER feelings and YOUR feelings but not a lot on HIS feelings. It comes across as you’re more focused on your relationship with her than you are on your relationship with him, and that’s what people are reacting to.

          I’m sure you’re a great mom (it comes across in everything you write!) but don’t diminish his pain or sense of loss just because he was the one to end it. I bet it feels like a divorce to him, and he’s got a lot of complicated feelings to work through himself. It’s so awesome that she was part of the family, but his pain and the loss of the future it seems he was picturing, that is your first priority. Yes it’s a loss for you but I promise that your loss is miniscule to the loss HE is feeling.

          I know this is hard and it feels WRONG to suddenly defriend her on FB and not know about her life and not reach out to her to offer support. But that’s the way this goes. It doesn’t feel like it, but she will recover, he will recover, you will recover, and you all will be much happier *because* they’re no longer together. You need to give her the space to recover, and give your son the support to recover.

          • Trish

            Thank you. I hear you but he has expressed nothing but RELIEF and FREEDOM. He has also shared many things about her that he kept from us because he didn’t want us to know because we would judge her. I did tell him that he would feel a loss and to be careful not to run back to her just because he is feeling lonely. He feels guilty but I shared with him that my HS boyfriend broke up with me after four years and I have no ill feelings toward that boy today. I am not mentioning him because I know he will be fine – he has lots of friends from high school and new college friends (she did not make new friends) and he has us who he lives with while her family is all in another city. We are actively encouraging him to sign up for a semester abroad or for a nature hiking exersion in another country. I am really happy that he broke up with her for him but the process of going through it is terrible for her and more painful for me than I expected it to be.

        • theguvnah

          It is very clear I am not the one who needs outside help in this situation.

          • Anon

            I’m not Trish, but you seem to be the one reading things into this post that she didn’t say.

        • Anonymous

          You took her in your heart, and now you will let her go.

          Her biggest problems at the moment is that her relationship is over, she needs to find a new and cheaper place to live, and she is currently at college in a city away from her family where she was “the girlfriend” rather than having her own life and friends.

          Losing an awesome MIL is low on the list. You are allowed to grieve, and you are allowed to feel warm feelings towards her forever. You are not allowed to to keep her.

          The reason I said something as cruel as that, is your quote above that “my MIL continued a close relationship with my husband’s ex and it doesn’t bother me at all.” I get the impression that you are setting yourself up for wanting to keep her. Keep in touch, keep being super-MIL. Now is the time to nip that in the bud. It is unkind to her to keep her. She is allowed a clean break. She is allowed to not think that “he probably wants me back, look how super friendly his mom is, she know’s how he feels”.

          Be kind and warm and friendly whenever you meet her by accident or where she is in control. Do not EVER express regret to her that she will not be your DIL, keep it to the pleasure of having known such a lovely girl as her.

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