Tuesday’s TPS Report: ‘Delura’ Fil a Fil Suiting Sheath Dress

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1. PAGING: Groups in DC

   Did you ever figure out how to socialize in the capitol? I hope things are going well for you. I was just at Morton’s last week for a networking event and thought about you.

2. TJ: Has anyone here taken Accutane (actually Epuris) as an adult, especially as a (ahem) mature adult? I’m almost 50 and have had mild acne and rosacea my whole adult life. I went to a dermatologist recently and he recommended Accutane, which surprised me, as I thought it was only for severe cystic acne. He’s put me on a low dose (40 mg/day, whereas the normal dose would be 80); I just started it two days ago. He said I will experience dryness, but this should clear up my acne forever. I have read some horror stories online, but they are all people who were on the higher dose. Has anyone been on a lower dose? I would love to hear your experiences.

   1. Not as a mature adult, but I took it in my early 20s and still love it. My skin is basically perfect, minus acne from actually getting sweaty/not removing makeup. My side effects were dry lips, nose, and eyes and they didn’t last long. Also took a very low dose.

      In general you’ll find horror stories and raves about Accutane all over. For me it came down to trusting my doctor and knowing I could stop any time.

   2. Have you tried prescription tretinoine (Retin-A) cream? I’ve been using it for a few months and it’s helping both my acne and wrinkles at the same time.

   3. I did two courses of regular strength Accutane in my early 30s. In addition to everything they told me, I learned on my own:

      1. Sun sensitivity is a serious problem. 50+ sunscreen is not enough. I just needed to stay out of the sun. Even hats and long sleeves was not enough to prevent the burning. Walking across the street left watch marks on my wrist where the sun did not hit and red sunburn on the rest of my arms. For this reason, I did the second course during the winter.

      2. Do NOT wax while you are on Accutane. I very nearly ended up with a scar between my eyebrows from the skin that came off when I waxed. This is when I switched to tweezing.

      3. I could swear that my previously very thick hair thinned some over the two courses. My MD said I was the first patient about whom she had heard that.

      Having said all that, it was one of the best medical interventions of my life. People routinely compliment my skin, It has been clear for about 15 years now.

      1. I had the higher dose for adult acne in my late 20s and loved the results — unfortunately can’t speak to the effects on rosacea. I also did it as a teenager and suffered no ill effects other than completely dry skin and chapped lips.

         I just wanted to reply to say that I also lost a bunch of hair during (or really, immediately after) the course of medication when I was older. I didn’t connect the two immediately, but there’s a lot of people who claim that this was a side effect. The shower drain was kind of scary. I have abundant hair and it was a temporary loss, so it wasn’t a major concern, but I agree that it doesn’t seem to be widely discussed by doctors when prescribing.

   4. I took Accutane when I was in middle school, so certainly not a mature adult but it did clear up my acne. I was also on a low dose based on my weight and I had terrible cystic and persistent acne (that didn’t respond to anything else). Now I only get the occasional zit here and there. I did experience some dryness, but not much because the of low dose. My sister also took it and she had really terrible dryness (she said that even the skin on her butt would crack when she sat down) so I think it just depends on the person. I didn’t experience any side effects while taking the medication.

      I should mention that after taking accutane I developed rosacea. I know that in low doses (I think much lower than what you are taking) accutane can treat rosacea, but at higher doses it can cause it. I’d just be really careful and look more into the accutane/rosacea link.

   5. I took accutane at 25 for cystic acne, and it really did wonders. I still get some acne, especially along the hairline, but my cysts are no more.

      My mum took it at 55, and her face is super clear now, but she has a perpetually runny nose since taking it. Your mileage may vary.

   6. I took it at 40. It was a second round — first round was maybe at 35? The first round was helpful, and very low dose as it turns out. The second seems to have done the trick. The most persistent issue was cysts on my shoulders (gross!), and they appear to be gone now. I was prescribed up to 80 mg, but admit I often skipped my second daily dose for fear of side effects. I had the dryness everyone complains about and also realized after I was off that I had been experiencing some pretty significant joint stiffness that went away once I stopped taking it. (I did not associate the two because I just thought I got really old when I turned 40, and I had also stopped being very active the year before.) My skin a year later is better than it has ever been and I am glad I did the second round. I second the comments about waxing and I have such thick hair that a little loss would be welcome, so I don’t know about that one. My skin was definitely sun sensitive, but I have darker skin, so not like the poster above. I did treat in winter on purpose.

   7. I took Accutane twice as a teenager, so not quite the same. I never had horrible cystic acne like some others have mentioned, just a lot of persistent acne. I found that at higher doses of Accutane (I think the 80/mg) I would just fall asleep, so my doctor wound up reducing my dosage and keeping me on the drug for a little while longer. After two rounds of it, my skin is not perfect, but it has never gone back to how bad it was.

      In terms of side effects, my nose and lips got really, really dry. I had to swab the inside of my nose and lips with Aquaphor multiple times a day or I would experience cracking and bleeding. Things like Chapstick or regular Vaseline did not work. This went away as soon as I was off the drug.

      You can’t drink while on the drug at all, because you can cause serious liver damage. This may or may not affect your lifestyle.

      I had to get blood work done every month – not sure if this is routine, but my doctor ordered it.

   8. Thanks, everyone, for your responses. I’ve tried Retin-A but the lower strength didn’t help and the higher strength made my skin rough and flaky – I know Accutane will be drying, but at least it’s short-term. I’ve also been on minocycline for years, and I don’t like the idea of being on antibiotics forever. I know the drying effects of Accutane will be bad in the winter, especially since I live in a cold climate and indoor heat is so dry, but I wanted to avoid the sun sensitivity that I would get from taking Accutane in the summer – I guess there’s no good time to do it! I’ll avoid waxing (thanks for that advice) and I don’t drink much anyway, so avoiding alcohol isn’t a problem (I did know about that). My derm wants me to do monthly blood tests to make sure my liver remains OK. I have thick hair and don’t like the idea of losing any of it, but I am hopeful that, if it happens, it will be temporary. I have heard about the joint and muscle pain, so I’ll be on the lookout for that.

      1. On the topic of antibiotics, I also have terrible cystic acne and have been hesitating on accutane-after trying minocycline and doxycycline to no avail (plus spirnolactone-also not helpful), I switched dermatologists and the new one put me on a sulfa-based antibiotic that actually seems to be helping a lot better than other antibiotics. So if you don’t have allergies to sulfur and are wary of accutane, you might see if you could try that first. Haven’t been taking it long enough to know if it will clear up and then immediately flare back up once I stop taking it, but we’ll see.

         1. I’ve read studies that suggest that zinc supplements are just about as effective as antibiotics without the unfortunate side effects. I used to have cystic acne and have been taking zinc daily for it. It’s gone, and it’s got other happy benefits as well. I highly recommend it.

         2. +1 to sulfa-based antibiotics. Minocycline didn’t work for me and my stomach couldn’t handle doxy.

      2. I took it twice as a teenager. I had no issues with dryness, not even with wearing contacts. One thing to be aware of is the potential digestive side effects. While taking it I had bouts of acid reflux. There is also something about Accutane and Irritable Bowel Syndrome, not sure if legit medical research has been done.

   9. I took Accutane when I was 40, after having dealt with mild to moderate acne for over 20 years. It cleared my skin permanently. My only regret was not using it sooner.

   10. I was mostly fine but got painful eczema all along my wrists and forearms and my neck, and my lips flaked off continuously for months – it was not a good look. I was constantly covered in Aquaphor. I would recommend getting a humidifier and making it humid in your house.

   11. I will not pretend to be familiar with your situation, but just a word of warning. I was advised by a dermatologist that I needed to go on Accutane. I, like you, was surprised because my acne was moderate. I got a second opinion and the second dermatologist was horrified by this recommendation and said it was a gross over reaction. He prescribed me a routine, alternative drug and I have had success with it for 7 years now.

       1. And what drug would that be?

   12. I took it in my late 20s at a similarly low dose. The downside to the low dose was that I had to be on it a much longer time (maybe seven months?) to be “cured.” The side effects were much less than the horror stories I read online though, also thanks to the lower dose according to my dermatologist. Very dry lips and somewhat dry eyes were what I experienced the most, though neither were more than very annoying. The aquophor in the little tube used as lip balm was what I used on my lips, and other than having to reapply ever hour, it worked fine.

       The skin on my face was drier than normal, but the worst side effect was that it was considerably more sensitive than normal. Even slight abrasions caused significant skin irritation. If there’s a man in your life, make sure he’s very clean shaven because even just a little stubble will make you look like you just had a medical grade facial peel. Not that I know from experience…

   13. I took it to cure my juvenile acne (face, back) around the age of 24 when nothing else worked. You get very chapped lips and need to moisturize all the time.
       However, it did nothing for hormonal acne which appeared after 26. Only thing that worked in that case was the mini pill.

   14. I’m 25 and on 60mg right now. I’m on month 3 of 5 and I’m not seeing the results I wanted, so that’s disappointing. But my acne is very much hormonal, which I guess it the least treatable. My acne has ranged from moderate to severe but no rosecea. My side effects have included dryness and increased cholesterol/triglycerides. I’m now on a cholesterol medication, but it should go back down when I’m off accutane. The dryness is a little annoying, but not all bad: I don’t really have to wash my hair anymore.

3. Does anyone have any experience with Frame Denim that can let me know how it fits, generally? I usually wear a size 28 in JCrew and Madewell jeans (size 6 in dress pants). I wear a 29 in Paige denim. I know designer jeans typically run a bit smaller so I was thinking 29 but is Frame smaller again still? FWIW I’m looking at a pair of skinnies. TIA I know these kinds of questions are hard!

   1. Hi Frame Denim, I have extensive experience with Paige brand jeans, which generally fit on the large side. I give my clients a size down in Paige. Frame denim typically fits true to size to on the large side, so if you are on the fence about size I recommend going a size down. So if you are size 29 in Paige jeans, and you like the way they fit, then start with that size in Frame Denim. Hope that helps.

4. I have been on a lower dose–40mg is the beginning dose. Even 40mg was enough for me not to finish the cycle…I had lots of side effects. Accutane is also very hard to do in the winter unless you live in a really temperate climate because the air is so dry. For me, the bone/muscle pain and extreme dryness places you wouldn’t expect (cuticles, heels of feet) was the worst. Couldn’t finish.

   Best of luck to you–there’s lots of web pages about all the side effects of Accutane if you don’t get enough responses here.

5. TJ for advice. Sorry in advance for length. I’m an attorney at a non-profit. I returned from mat leave two months ago. Initially, I returned on a part-time basis, and as of yesterday, I’m back full-time, albeit telecommuting two days a week. Before I left, I hammered out this arrangement with my bosses and HR, and also requested that I get my office back when I return. I was told people might be moving around generally, so they couldn’t guarantee that I’d return to my specific office.

   Fast-forward to now. While I was out, an attorney was hired on a several-month contract (the period of my mat leave) to cover my work. At the time that I returned, one of my bosses was out on unpaid medical leave, so the contract of this attorney was extended so we’d have enough people. So, she was still here when I got back — and she kept my office, while I’ve been moving around between different offices on different days. I let it slide (perhaps unwisely) during the two-month period that I was part-time (also assuming this person’s contract would end and it would become a non-issue) and I was assured that by the time I went full-time, my office situation would be sorted out.

   Well, it hasn’t been. The contract attorney (who is, to be fair, in the office five days a week) continues to sit in my office, and has put her diplomas up on the wall. (I should mention that my stuff is all still in there, in bags, in corners, since I was never told to clean out when I left and had no expectation that I wouldn’t go back to my office when I returned — and, I have nowhere to move it to now). I continue to move between different offices, despite being the senior, and permanent, employee.

   Is this acceptable? I understand that I telecommute two days a week now, but when I made these arrangements it was never conveyed to me that I might forfeit an office by doing so. I feel like it’s just crazy that I lost my office (and my phone, and mailbox) by taking maternity leave and coming back in a transitional way, but I don’t even know how to approach this, given that my organization is…not organized, HR is terrible, and no one seems to think that this is an issue of any kind.

   1. I personally don’t think this is an issue. You left for mat leave. This other lawyer is in the office 5 days a week. She’s probably a little aggressive by hanging up her diplomas but it sounds like she’s trying to get a permanent job out of this.

      I understand maternity leave is a right but you can’t just expect everything to stop while you’re gone or for people to give things up just because you’ve decided to come back and work from your office 3 days a week.

      1. Yes, I think I tried to acknowledge all that, did I really come across as that unreasonable? I am surprised that I wasn’t given my office back but my primary issue is that — unlike every single other attorney here, many of whom have left on mat leave and returned on similar schedules — I have NO office of my own, not even one that I share with someone else. I certainly didn’t expect “everything to stop” while I was out, I just want to be treated like a valued (and long-term, which I am) employee now that I am back.

         1. I don’t think you sound unreasonable. I think you have tried to be understanding of the situation by keeping quiet about it for two months (wisely or not). I am sure others will have better advice for you as to what to do, I’d probably just sit down with boss(es) and explain how eager you are to settle back into your full time gig and how having a permanent office is important for that for a host of reasons. But more than that I really just want to say that maternity leave is one of those topics that provokes intense reactions, especially when those reactions can be anonymously posted online. You’re not being unreasonable. Don’t feel bad about it.

   2. Bring it up. Make it an issue to deal with easily, esp. because you’re an attorney so you need to shut the door & have privacy, right? I mean, if you can go to a cube or office space, suggest that, but this still needs to be solved.

      “I am so glad to be back working full-time now, even though I’m working from home 2 days a week, I’m here 3 days a week and I need a permanent office so that I’m not shuttling my things, or making Contract Attorney uncomfortable rifling through my files in that office. I do need an office with privacy – is there one available now or what’s the soonest that one can be made available?”

      Present the problem, present the solution. No need to go into the background of who’s fault it is (NOT YOURS). I’ve been at these kinds of NPOs, but talk to the CEO or COO or facility manager person. Start at the top. It needs to be solved. Now.

      1. Great response.

         1. Agreed

      2. This.

   3. This is one of those situations where you just have to pull up your big girl pants and handle.

      I don’t know what you mean by “acceptable.” Yeah–HR seems to have accepted it. You need to talk with someone who has power to fix this. If they don’t think it’s an issue, than you just look like a prima donna, but at least you have tried to solve the issue. If no one in power is dealing/will deal with it, I would take the uber-passive agressive route, sending an email to IT/Office Manager stating that you’ll be moving back into your office on X date, and Y attorney will need to remove her belongings from your office by that time and your phone number needs to be reconnected to that desk. I’d certainly pull rank here, especially if moving offices has been a big pain. And then I’d just pop by that attorney in your old office and say, “Hi, since I am back to FT, I will be moving back into this office, my old office, effective X date. Just wanted to let you know.” Then it’s a tell, not an ask. Just handle it!

      I’ve been a contract employee (LT temp for a special merger project) and in no way did I think it was appropriate to decorate my office, and putting up diplomas is especially douchey. I was there for 9+ months (and knew it, based on the merger closing/regulatory review), but I knew darn well I was not a permanent employee. I think it’s quite cheeky. Also, don’t think that attorney doesn’t know your stuff is in her office. She does and has chosen to ignore.

      1. Thanks MomAnon and MJ, I think you are both right that I need to take control of the situation. Not always my strong suit in these types of quasi-personal situations, but I will suck it up and do so.

      2. I’m going to disagree with this somewhat. Being a big girl is called for, but anything characterized as “uber passive-aggressive” sets off warning bells. Taking actions that target Contract Attorney direct your efforts at someone who can’t do anything about the situation. Take it up with HR. Shouldn’t they be providing you a space with a door for pumping anyway, not to mention the file storage and confidentiality issues mentioned by other commenters?

         Be direct with HR, not the Contract Attorney.

         1. Thanks NC. That makes sense. Also (although the diploma thing bugs me), I blame HR/management for the awkwardness of the issue, not Contract Attorney. I think I should adopt the broader principle of MJ’s comment (tell don’t ask), though.

      3. Please don’t follow this advice.

         1. Why not?

            1. Agreed. The contract attorney probably does not know about the arrangements you made before going on leave. Take it up with HR and remind them of the agreement.

   4. Talk to someone with the power to fix this and make it an issue – explain why it’s problematic for you not to have a permanent office space, especially now that you’re back to full-time. I’ve never worked at a non-profit, but I am an attorney, and it would drive me bonkers to not have a set space for my files. I can’t imagine staying organized without a fixed office space – where do your files go? How do people leave documents for you on the days you’re not there if you don’t have a fixed mailbox for physical documents? This is especially troubling given that your files/paperwork are likely at least somewhat confidential – you can’t just leave legal documents lying around wherever. Never mind the time you’re likely losing every day to the whole move/set-up thing (I mean, I know it doesn’t necessarily take that much time to log-in to a different computer, but I’m figuring there’s at least a little bit of a dance of figuring out where to sit/setting up the phone with your extension/etc. that’s taking up time that would otherwise be spent on actual work, and that seems especially relevant when you’re only in the office three days a week).

      Go to someone who can fix this, lay out for them why what you’re currently doing isn’t working, and tell them the solution you want (your old office back). Don’t even address the issue of the temp – where the temp sits is your employer’s problem to figure out, not yours.

   5. I can’t get over the fact that the contract attorney already hung her diplomas!

      1. +1

         I think that’s a really bold move.

         1. +1

            I only worked at a firm for two years, graduated four years ago, and still haven’t framed a single diploma.

      2. I disagree, in Canada mat leaves are a year long, and at least in my company, people are encouraged to make their offices comfortable.

         1. Oh Anonymous…I am from Canada originally and I would happily have forfeited my office for a year-long paid mat leave. Unfortunately (from this perspective) I now live in the US, where I was lucky to be able to take an unpaid mat leave that was longer than the mandated 12 weeks. Canada this is not.

6. Wait- are pleated pants a thing again? I’ve seen two young, fashionable women I work with wear pleated pants in the past week.

   1. I hope not! (pleated pants)

   2. Totally are. I am actually kind excited. I have an awesome pair that I love and it will be nice to wear them to my non-fashion forward office and not stick out.

   3. They are. Considering the lousy tailoring out there, they are good for people with large/muscular thighs who do not want to go to a tailor or go up a size.

      1. Disagree. I have a sprinter’s thighs. Pleats just make me look like I have a much tummy. Still have hip/thigh issues unless I get a curvy cut.

      2. I have a lot to compensate for muscular thighs. A tailor can only take in a waist so much.

7. Ugh, I would totally buy this dress if it had sleeves.

   1. +1,000

      The WSJ had an article a week or so again with various designers talking why they don’t do sleeves. One idea was “you can layer things under it.” Yes, you can. I do that on weekends. My daughter does it with her uniforms. I am a grownup who works in an office/meatlocker and I don’t think that throwing a turtleneck under this works for the office. If I wanted an arty/creative/casual vibe, I’d just buy (much less expensive) arty/creative/casual clothes.

      1. Yes, thank you. I hate this. If I layer a turtleneck under a suiting-material dress, I look like I need to add knee socks and penny loafers and call it a day.

      2. Yeah, I don’t buy sleeveless dresses because I can’t wear them by themselves (not appropriate in my office and I’m always cold), but layering something over it just makes me look not put together or frumpy. And I don’t layer things under dresses. Basically there’s no way to style it that looks reliably good on me, and so I’m not willing to dump money into something that I’d have to make an extra effort to make work (and then there’s a good chance it wouldn’t anyway).

         I don’t have enough time in the mornings or mental energy to make getting dressed that complicated.

         1. Agree with this, even though normally the Stacy London-approved “completer piece” strategy works for me with separates. It’s extra frump-factor if the sleeveless/cap sleeve dress doesn’t have an interesting neckline like this one does. Crew neck dresses with a blazer over? Ages me 25 years.

   2. I’m tired of living in a world where men get sleeves and undershirts and I get the choice of coming to work with my arms exposed, or buying a second piece of clothing to make the first workable.

      Maybe when I see a nice sleeveless shell for a male partner……….

      1. You could always default to the standard man’s outfit of long sleeved shirt with collar and slacks. But a dress with a sweater/blazer is the exact same number of pieces of clothing that the average business-casual man would wear, so I don’t see what you’re complaining about. Oh no, you have so much more flexibility in what you wear. If you don’t like having to think about it, then make yourself a “uniform” and be done with it.

         1. That’s not really fair, though. Men can look really sharp and stylish in relatively easy/warm/comfortable clothing. Much harder for women to look stylish wearing slacks, a button down, and loafers.

8. I’m feeling guilty because I haven’t been into the office – through no fault of my own – in almost 2 weeks. The last time I was in the office was Thursday, January 22nd. I work from home on Mondays and Fridays so I worked from home Friday, January 23rd and Monday, January 26th.

   The blizzard came through so we had snow days Tuesday and Wednesday – the 27th and 28th. Last Thursday, I was on the smoky train. I then waited an additional 45 minutes for another train before going home. Friday I worked from home as usual.

   Yesterday we had another snow day. And today the red line is having such major problems that the mbta has asked commuters to seek alternate modes of travel:
   http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2015/02/03/mbta-asking-commuters-avoid-using-the-red-line/FkcIkG7SWNNTcg1YKtpn3O/story.html?p1=feature_pri_hp

   So I’m working from home again.

   1. This is the first time I’m in the office since last Thursday (after staying home Tuesday + Wednesday, and I left at 3PM on Thursday because the roads were so bad). I have to say that the only reason I’d be pro-Olympics in Boston is that I feel they would be obligated to put lots of money into updating our horrifyingly bad infrastructure. :(

   2. The suggestion to “find alternate transportation” cracks me up. Let’s say, hypothetically, that all of the people that take the T each day used a car (rented, borrowed or their own). Could the highways even handle the influx of that many additional drivers? Where would they all park? At least half of the garages are full on a regular basis anyway. Assuming one had the money to rent a car and pay the $60+ garage fee, it still wouldn’t work because the infrastructure could not handle that many more drivers.

      One option would be for the Logan Express to make a stop at South Station like the NH/ME/VT –> Boston buses do. A lot of people could probably get to the Logan Express and then walk from South Station to work.

      It is a mess either way. Glad I’m not in the middle of it.

      1. I cannot walk from South Station to work. I’d have to get back on the redline to get to Davis Square. Even if the train were running on time, it would be about a half an hour. And then my office is 9 blocks from the T stop.

         At 6:30 AM, when I found out about this problem, there is no way I could have figured out how to get in via the commuter rail. When I mapped out the route at 9 AM, this is what I found…

         Based on my morning routine, I would have missed the 6:42 from Quincy Center, which is not the stop I usually get on at, and would have had to take the next one, which would be 7:39. That usually gets into South Station at 7:56. Then I would take the red line out to Davis.

         However, today the 7:39 was running 60 to 75 minutes late so I probably would not have gotten in until about 9:30. I usually get in by 8 AM.

         That’s assuming I could have even gotten onto the train, since all of the people on the T who had to go in would have been getting on the commuter rail as well. And there would be more people at 7:30 than there would be at 6:55, which is the time I usually get on the train.

         1. Yeah. I’m sympathizing with you, not saying you should have done anything different.

9. I posted late in the thread from the woman who was blaming herself for a lot of things post-pregnancy. Just wanted to say I’m thinking of you.

10. So this might come off as a really crazy question, but I am seriously considering it–has anyone had a child alone? Not as in, not raising with the father, but sperm bank alone? Do you know anyone who has? I am going to freeze my eggs soon, but when my doctor asked if I wanted to fertilize and reimplant, I realized that I actually had the power to become a parent…now…alone…and started thinking about it for real.

    FWIW, I am a 2L, non-trad, with a biglaw summer gig, so I could have a baby 3L and then start in biglaw later. I have worked in biglaw as a paralegal, so I know what I am getting into. I’d have to get really good child care.

    Is this completely bat$hit?

    1. No, I don’t think it’s completely bat$hit. Obviously, it will be hard–really hard at times. But, lots of people do it, and often without the opportunity to plan and decide to do it.

    2. Yeah, deciding to have a baby alone 3L year and then start in BigLaw sounds pretty batshit to me. And, sorry, but we’ve all heard that “but I was a paralegal” line before and just no.

       That being said, some of life’s best decisions are bat shit. How old are you? Do you want marriage? How will you pay for childcare during law school? How will you feel when as a first year you’re choosing between career and child all the time? Because being a junior associate in BigLaw is basically about them buying all your time and you being available. Answer all those questions. And then ask yourself how you’ll feel about having no one to share parenting with- no one else waking up in the night, no one else thinking your child is their whole world. Maybe your answer is that sounds fine, but ask the questions. And then ask people with toddlers what they think of your plan.

    3. It helps to have a strong web of support, such as family and friends, in addition to really good child care.

       1. Yeah – not crazy but your life will be incalculably easier if you have family/friends near you, along with good child care. I was in Biglaw and it was TOUGH with kids and two working spouses and trading emergency-sick-kid-watching, it would be much more difficult if that always fell on you.

          But as long as you go into this with eyes wide open, more power to you.

    4. You’d have to get really good child care and backup care. Backup care is what’s tough about being a single parent — usually the dad / inlaws / grandparents step in. But you’ll need a plan for your backup plan more than most.

       I know a few widows with young children and it’s hard for them to be the 100% parent all the time (even with lots of support from two sets of relatives).

       1. Yes, backup care. I had my baby when I was a 2L, so my son was 2 when I started in BigLaw. It was ridiculously hard even though I was married to a teacher with reasonable hours. I learned early on that you’re only as good as your backup care. And, I might add, backup for the backup.

          1. “backup for the backup”…. so true.

    5. I think it’s only crazy if you also have a strong desire to find a life partner. You will 1) have very, very little time to date during your child’s early years, and 2) scare off a lot of potential partners by having a child alone. I think I’d only do this if I believed that I would genuinely like to raise a child alone, vs. thinking of it as a second-best option.

       1. But not everyone has the chance to raise a child with a partner for a lot of reasons (divorce, dealth, ect.) If you want a child, I don’t think that you should let a failure to find a life partner stop you

          1. Oh I agree. I am not saying that it is crazy to raise a child without a partner. I am saying that it is crazy to raise a child while still thinking finding a life partner is a priority.

       2. Some single dads prefer to date women with children because mothering is not new to them.

          1. But blended families are ridiculously hard. Just sayin’.

             1. As a child of such an arrangement gone horribly wrong, I second this sentiment. Also be aware that what you perceive to be the success of your blended family may be totally off the mark. My mom thinks my stepdad “loved me like his own.” He was abusive. I told her, but she didn’t believe me. Obviously this won’t be the typical experience, but just that when you love someone, you may be inclined to overlook or willfully delude yourself in to many things that may not be accurate.

       3. What the what? Do not live your life around what “potential partners” may or may not find attractive. Plenty of a$$hat men don’t want to date a woman who makes more than he does. Does that mean a straight, single woman should limit her salary to not “scare off” those DOOSHES? If someone is right for you, he or she will accept you and your family as you are.

          Also, the assumption that you may have trouble dating because you’ll “scare off” so many potential partners is just plain false. There are a ton of single moms and dads in the dating pool. Frankly, if you’re in your 30s or 40s, it’s hard to date if you’re NOT open to seeing someone with kids.

    6. Yep, it’s bat$hit. But so is having children in any situation. My mother chose this route – she was 35, didn’t see herself getting married any time soon, had enough money in the bank, and wanted a baby. She owned her own house already, so she took off from work for a year, which made a huge difference. My grandparents were in the same city for the first few years, and she had a lot of really great friends who didn’t have children but wanted to be a part of my life, so she wasn’t entirely alone. When I was four and we moved, she did get a great nanny until I went to school. If you have a really really great support system (not just for childcare – emotional as well), it’s less crazy. If not, it will probably be more stressful than you imagine, even with good child care.

       And as someone who’s actually lived this situation, no, I never really wondered who my biological father was, or wanted to meet him, or felt like he was a missing piece in my life. My mother made sure I had strong male role models actively involved in my life in my grandfather and uncles, and I was surrounded by such an abundance of love and parenting, I never felt the need to falsely attribute any unhappiness to my lack of a father.

       1. FWIW, I think your mom sounds amazing. Do you have a good relationship with her now?

          1. We are probably too close. We talk almost every day, and her opinions are almost more important to me than my own. But yes, she’s pretty amazing.

       2. As someone who knows that solo childbearing and parenting may be in her future, it is really great to hear this story.

       3. Thanks for sharing. Hearing from the perspective of the donor child is very, very interesting.

    7. No crazy. Or, at least I hope it’s not crazy because it’s something I’m considering for down the road.

       But I would think long and hard about whether now is the time to do it. You mentioned that you’ve been a biglaw paralegal, but at least at my firm, it’s just not the same thing. Paralegals get a sense of how crazy associates hours are, but you can’t really understand it until you do it yourself. And, I’ve got to believe that doing it as a parent is even harder. (One of the reason’s I’m waiting is because I want to leave biglaw first). In fact, at my firm, about 90% of the mothers choose to go on part-time schedules right after they come back from maternity leave.

       And, personally, I would be worried that I wouldn’t get an offer after my summer if the firm found out. (But I summered back in 2010, so firms might be back to giving offers to their full class again).
       There is a lot to think about.

       But if you really want to have a child at this point in your life (and not 3-5 years down the road), go for it.

       1. I just noticed that OP said she intends to actually go into biglaw, not just summer. Honestly, I do think it’s batsh!t in that case. Your childcare provider(s) would essentially be raising your child. It would be a lot more feasible to start in biglaw and then either switch to a job with less demanding hours or go part-time until your child is preschool-aged.

          1. For devil’s advocate purposes, the same argument has been made about me and I have a husband and a 40 hour a week job (although I do commute an hour each way). I get my baby up in the morning and get her ready but don’t have time to play with or read to her before husband takes her to the babysitter so he can make it to work on time. I get home at 6 pm, cook dinner and have family dinner with school-age children at 6:30 pm, and then baby goes to bed at 7:30 pm. Since I’m not in biglaw, I have weekends to spend with her, but during the week? Not a whole lot of quality time with my little one. My babysitter definitely spends more time (and more quality time) with my baby in any 7 day period than my husband or I do. There are a variety of reasons I personally wouldn’t have a kid by myself while working in biglaw but “childcare provider(s) essentially raising my child” isn’t one of them.

       2. Also, there are a lot of websites out there for single mothers by choice. Before you make a decision, I highly recommend reviewing the websites and maybe talking with some people who have done it before.

          1. Also, there are a lot of websites out there for single mothers by choice. Before you make a decision, I highly recommend reviewing the websites and maybe talking with some people who have done it before.

    8. Meh, lots of women have to raise a child alone without it being a choice. People do it. If you are getting older and know you want a child eventually, do it. I would read up on the actual statistics of how many live births happen after frozen eggs/implantation. It’s pretty low. It may be really hard, but parenting is hard in general. A lot of people set their lives up to be easier/convenient and then life throws them a huge curveball and it gets really inconvenient and hard anyways. If you know in your heart you want a kid, then have one!

    9. The reality is if you want a baby now, do it now. There’s no *good* time to have a kid no matter what your job is. You’ll make it work. I second all the voices that are asking what your close friends/family support is like. I think you would especially want that, but I’m not sure it’s *needed* to have your kid.
       If you’re in a position to be able to plan for what you can foresee, awesome–a lot of women don’t get that. Having a baby in law school, especially if your eyes are set on Big Law, is smart. I was pregnant my 3L year, and honestly, I’m not sure why I wasn’t having babies all the way through school. The good news about a summer position in Big Law is that opens other doors should you need those opened.
       I think when you’re looking for you nanny, you’ll want someone who helps run the house (apt/condo/wherever you live), not just someone devoted to your child. That way, when you are able to be home, you don’t need to be cleaning or doing copious amounts of laundry. Perhaps an Au Pair is in your future?

       1. Both, maybe?

          A nanny and a night nanny or an au pair and a nanny. But 40 hours of care won’t cut it. 60 is probably cutting it close.

          I’d see if you could find some two-doctor couples who have young children — bonus if they are residents. The time craziness is on par with a 1L in BigLaw (major cities, YMMV), but the baby juggles are similar in term of hours that are crazier than normal childcare providers plan for.

    10. I have two friends who’ve done this, one of whom is a lawyer (not biglaw, though). She waited until she’d been in her job a few years. She also has family in her area, which helps tremendously. The other woman is a consultant who was able to cut down to part-time hours for a few years after her child was born.

        In our shoes, I’d probably be considering it as a serious option – if not now, within a few years. Egg freezing seems like a pretty big roll of the dice if you know that you want kids. But yes, you are going to need really good childcare, and it is going to cost lots of money.

    11. I think the Big Law part seems a little nuts, but then again, I think it’s a crazy job to have while raising kids even with a partner. Or just in general–which is why I left!

        I know someone who did just this, though. She froze her eggs and then used a sperm donor and had a child. She’s a VP at a major company and had the resources to have great child care. She saved enough for her child’s college within three years of having her and is doing really, really well. So well, in fact, she’s doing it again!

        I don’t think you can count on egg freezing as a guarantee of anything so if you really want children now (or if you have any reason to think you don’t have a lot of time left to have children without depending on your frozen eggs, which aren’t always that much of a guarantee) then I say go for it. You’ll never regret having a child. You may just have to change your plans and go with the flow a bit.

        Good luck!!

    12. Depends on how old you are. If you’re 39, do it. If you’re 29 I’d hold off and aggressively date to try and meet someone right for you and your long term goals (e.g. don’t get involved with SOs who don’t want kids). Anecdotally, I have friends with kids who are single parents now and they are having a tough time finding men interested in raising someone else’s kid. Ymmv if you’re not straight though.

    13. It’s a type of insanity, sure, but I will say that most of the female BigLaw partners I’ve ever personally met either had kids in law school or waited until making partner to have them. If you have the kid in law school, you take the “mom penalty” in the first two or so years of your career when the kid is tiny, and then they’re in school already and a little more self-sufficient during the prime gearing-up-for-the-partnership-vote years, so you’re able to step up your career game at the most crucial time. You’ll need amazing childcare and ideally a support network even beyond that (family/good friends/etc.) to make things work on the home front, but from a career perspective, I don’t think it’s the worst idea. And as someone trying to figure out whether to delay my potential partnership at my firm by having kids now-ish, or waiting until I make partner at 33/34 to try for kids and hoping my fertility holds out, I’ll admit that I do find myself wishing I’d just pulled the trigger on kids earlier in my career.

        1. I think this is interesting because it is definitely not true in my biglaw office. Most of the moms in my office had kids in the middle of the associate track. It takes so long to make partner at many firms that it no longer seems realistic to hold out for partnership. (It certainly was not possible for me!)

           1. My biglaw office is like this Anon’s. If we’d waited to make partner, we’d all be 40+.

           2. Mine has a 10 year partnership track so the earliest you’d make partner if you graduated from law school at the earliest normal age is 35. It takes lots of people longer and obviously lots of people are older than 25 when they graduate law school. Some women do wait but many also have kids as mid-level or senior associates. I also know a few who had babies in law school.

           3. Agreed. Many female associates at my firm started having kids around year 4 and, if still at ther firm, had a second around year 6.

           4. Anywhere I’ve worked, partnership has been a 6-8 year track, so assuming you went straight through to law school from undergrad, you could reasonably expect to make partner between 31 and 33, depending on your level of rockstar-ness.

              Year 4-5 is right around when you’re expected to start showing business development/networking skills. Being pregnant/taking mat leave/having a newborn during that timeframe is pretty much guaranteeing you’re going to end up waiting an extra year or two (or more, if you have more than one kid) to make partner, and if you end up needing to go flex-time, there’s a chance the dreaded “of counsel” is in your future.

    14. I think this is a good idea if you really want to go for it. You will need really great child care and backups, and then additional backups, but I say go for it. :)

        1. As a side note: I am in NON biglaw and it is much more flexible, so if my nanny is sick I just take the day. We don’t have backups other than nanny, me (husband would not take the kids for the day). You cannot really work while the kids are around, though, unless they are tiny babies or older than 6.

    15. I could write a book about this! I an an attorney and a single-mother by choice (conceived via donor insemination in my mid-30s after practicing for several years in a mid-sized firm). There is an organization called Single Mothers By Choice that I suggest you check out. If you live in a large or even medium sized city there are likely to be a group in your area that meets and even if you do not they have a very active bulletin board where these exact types of issues get debated.

        I second the absolute need for back-up. It can be family (I live in the same area as mine) or paid or both, but you have to have it when you have a demanding job and no spouse. I decided early on that I was not interested in a job that meant I could not regularly have dinner with my kid or go to most of her events but even then I leaned heavily on my back-up plans, especially during infancy.

        I cannot really speak to the Big Law part of the equation. As noted above, that did not appeal to me as a way of life (and that is a matter of personal choice – not a judgment on people who made a different decision). I can say that parenting is the best thing about my life and I would not change my decision for anything.

11. Interesting to see that the new Lands End CEO comes from Dolce & Gabbana (http://www.wsj.com/articles/lands-end-ceo-to-resign-successor-from-dolce-gabbana-1422878317). I wonder what that will mean for the line.

    1. Fleece bustieres, I hope.

       1. Elastic waist ponte pants covered in gold embroidery?

          Heavily beaded warm red down coats?

          The Dress made out of see-through lace?

          I’m liking where this is going.

          1. I would totally wear a heavily beaded warm red down coat.

12. I second Alana. I’m in biglaw. I have two kids and I was shocked to discover how hard having a baby/kid is with no local family/strong support web. My husband is great, and ended up being a SAHP when our second was born, but I often tell people that having a baby without that support is the biggest personal miscalculation I have ever made.

    1. To second this – my child is in full time daycare, and having one set of grandparents suddenly become unavailable for backup/emergency care due to them watching a siblings child full time has been a HUGE issue for us in terms of needing to find additional backup care.

       1. Third this… speaking as a mom who has her back up care (a nearby relative) covering for a sick nanny on a day when neither husband nor I can take off of our law jobs. You need to be thinking first string, second string, etc. for back-up care. My friends who don’t have in-town relatives to help in that situation are definitely at a noticeable disadvantage that affects their abilities to succeed at their jobs.

13. Yesterday’s post about being ready for marriage when your partner was not made me want to reach out for advice on my opposite situation.

    Been with the BF for over 2 years, and we’ve been talking about moving in/getting engaged at some point for probably the last 6 months. Up until recently, I was onboard with this plan, moving in after my lease expires this summer and getting engaged around the same time.

    About a month ago, I realized I wasn’t ready for any of that. BF and I are usually good at communicating about these things, and I explained this as best I could. I still love him, and I enjoy our time together, but I don’t feel ready for the same level of commitment that he is. Since this discussion, and several related ones since, things have been kind of distant.

    I guess I just want some outside perspective. Am I being unreasonable for wanting to back off? (he has not accused me of this, and he’s been more than understanding.) Is this just me overthinking everything?

    1. You aren’t unreasonable, but I can understand him becoming distant. You basically rejected him. He put it out there that he wants to make this commitment to you and you were like “woah woah woah, not yet”. I’ve been in his position (asking my now-husband to move in together), and it was really hurtful even though it wasn’t meant to be. It’s basically hearing “no, I don’t want to do those things with you yet”.

       1. Yay! Great Sheathe Dress, Kat! And it realy fit’s the model (who is cute, like Rosa)!

          Anyway, for the OP, if I had guy that was serius, I would jump at it. You are lucky to find such a guy, so think twice b/f throwing him away b/c all to many guy’s just want to have sex and then nothing more after they’ve had you. FOOEY on men like this.

          If your guy care’s and would make a good dad, go for it now, b/f your eggs go stale! I am serius, b/c I wasted alot of time with Alan, who turned out to be a dud after all I invested in him. I regret giving of myself to him onley to have him drink, burp and then walk away without so much as an “I’m sorry for misleading you”. He took all of me, emotionaly as well as physically, and every time I think of him, I think of him huffeing and puffeing on top of me, promiseing me the moon and delivering NOTHING! DOUBEL FOOEY on men that will do anything to get us where they want and then ….NOTHING!

          Even Rosa is facing issues b/c Ed did let the woman in the club do thing’s to him (above her belt he said), but that still mean’s alot of stuff went on even tho no procreative sex. Why do men do this to us? He has 3 kid’s and Rosa does all that same stuff for him sexueally, so whats the big deal with another woman doeing the same thing? I am astounded that he could even tell the diference, if at all, especialy b/c he claim’s to have been drunk! Are ALL men like this? TRIPEL FOOEY!

    2. Not being ready is not unreasonable. Your feelings are what they are and life doesn’t come with a timeline. However, you would being doing both him and yourself a disservice if you don’t examine why you’re not ready now when you felt that you were for 5 months. Is it a timing issue? Do you have doubts about marriage in general or with him in particular? Is their some aspect of your relationship or external circumstances that are holding you back? Did you never truly feel ready but went along with it because it was what he wanted? A therapist could also be helpful in figuring it out.

       1. A lot of this kicked in after attending a close friend’s wedding and realizing I wasn’t excited about planning any of that for my own. I’m still doing a lot of self-reflection about what exactly I do want.

          Part of me thinks that I grew up with the whole “grow up, fall in love, get married, have kids” thing, and perhaps I’m just realizing that I have other things I want too (career, not interested in settling down in the area I’m in currently) might conflict with our relationship. The BF knows that all of these things are in my plans, and he’s willing to follow me, so that shouldn’t be a problem. A lot of me doesn’t like that he’s willing to base his plans on me though.

          1. Not wanting to do wedding BS is not a red flag for me. Do men feel like they have to get SO EXCITED about FLOWERS and FONTS and CENTERPIECES to feel ready to get married? Eff no. Not being the type to fuss over WIC nonsense =/= not being ready for marriage.

             HOWEVER. Your last paragraph sounds like a respect issue to me, which certainly is a red flag. If there’s a geographic move in your future, then BF SHOULD be prepared to move with you. The fact that that’s bothersome to you is a problem. Is he codependent in other ways? Is he a doormat? Think long and hard about what’s going on in this relationship that you see something negative in an objectively positive move on his part.

             1. Agree. I am recently engaged and very excited about the idea of being married, and very NOT excited about the wedding itself :) I can’t imagine putting that amount of time, effort, stress, money into one event. It works for some, but it gives me panicky thoughts. I want a simple party, a pretty dress, great photos, and yummy food. The rest is gravy (oooh, and if the food involves gravy, all the better!).

                But the idea of pinteresting my way through this next year makes me want to barf. I have NO issue attending those types of weddings, and am happy for my extreme-planner friends. I’m just not one of them.

             2. Yeah, I got married about 18 months ago and I really should have spent a lot more time on the actual wedding stuff. It turned out fine, but I really didn’t LIKE it or enjoy the dang hours I had to devote to different things while my now-husband attended a few shows and said “it’s all fine!” a couple times.

                On the other hand, being married is the absolute best, I love my tiny little wedding, and most importantly IT’S OVER.

          2. A man willing to base his plans on you is a gift. It also seems inconsistent with wanting to leave where you are currently located. If you want to leave town and you don’t want him to follow you, then it seems that you’re not that into him. Is it more that you do not want him to want to follow you?

             Marrying a peer who also has a high-powered job can mean a long distance relationship and outsourcing many activities of daily living. There are earlier discussions here about the challenges of being the breadwinner.

          3. I’m not sure what to think of your last paragraph. On the one hand, I wanted to (and did) marry a peer with a high-powered job. He’s awesome, but it does introduce challenges into the relationship that sometimes I wish we could have avoided or mitigated. My ex boyfriend didn’t really have any ambition and was willing to find a job wherever I wanted to go. Obviously in my case it’s a matter of compatibility. I just didn’t want the kind of guy who had no dreams of his own and would submit to mine. BUT, if DH would bend a little bit for me, I would love that. So I would think about whether this is about the actual accomodations he’s willing to make for your or if there’s some underlying compatibility gap.

             1. He does have personal career goals, but some parts of it is financially limited at the moment (we come from slightly different socioeconomic backgrounds.) Most of those goals are viable pretty much wherever I go. Mentally I know that. I’ve had previous relationships where different career paths/life goals were a very big problem, so possibly that may be coloring my viewpoint?

             2. I have friends in this situation who have had to deal with long-distance relationships for career reasons, and others who hire a lot of help. The referral is a way for the OP to gain additional insight, as I have no dog in this fight. Yes, there is a healthy middle ground between ambitionless and inflexible due to ambition.

          4. It really comes down to this: you want a great career and you want to live somewhere else. Do you love this man and want him along for those adventures? Does having him in the picture make it, on balance, more awesome or more of a chore?

    3. Another take: totally committed for life. Together 8 1/2 years. Households merged for 5 1/2 years. Coordinated (but not joint) finances and estate planning (read: we each know what is in the other’s accounts and how it is invested and helped plan each other’s wills). But no plan to marry. Not interested in inviting legal/government intrusion into relationship.

       Anyone else feel the same?

       1. ETA: would do a religious ceremony, including a religious contract (for us, a ketubah), in a heartbeat. Just not the state. (And I am not generally a small-government type.)

       2. I feel like this raises a really good question for the OP – is this a “not into the whole state-sanctioned marriage thing, but I’m otherwise ready to spend my life with this guy” issue, or is this a “not really sold on spending my life with this particular guy” issue? To me they’re two really different things, and if I were your boyfriend, it’d matter a lot which one it was.

          1. At the moment, probably more of the former, but both debates have crossed my mind.

             The one challenge is both our families would really pressure towards the whole “state-sanctioned” (and in the case of my mother, church-sanctioned) marriage.

             1. The family pressure thing just doesn’t strike me as a big enough to blow up a relationship over, if committed-but-not-married is what you’re both happiest with.

                My SIL is in a committed-for-life relationship without marriage, and yes, at times, she gets the old “WHY WON’T YOU JUST GET MARRIED?!?!” Her answer is “because we don’t want to.” Repeated ad nauseum, until the conversation is no fun at all for the person trying to pressure her. It took a little while for the family to adjust, but at this point it’s a non-issue. People who love you and want you in their lives will get used to it.

          2. Probably more of the former at the moment (the latter debate happened about two weeks ago however.) There would be a lot of family pressure to do the state-sanctioned/church-sanctioned thing, which might be hard for me to handle.

             1. aaah, double post. First one had disappeared.

       3. I wish we had done this. The tax burden would be exponentially less if we hadn’t don’t the state-sanctioned thing, and just stuck with our Rabbi and Ketubah.

          1. Can you do that in CA? If the rabbi performs the wedding and everyone signs the ketubah, but no one fills out the state marriage license or submits it, will the state view you as not married? That would be awesome.

             1. Absolutely! There aren’t many states that recognize common law marriage, and California isn’t one of them. Too bad we can’t undo what we’ve already done!

             2. Well, you can, of course. It’s called getting a divorce. Although there may be IRS-related case law about “sham divorces,” now that I think about it.

             3. There are, I looked, in a tax-desperate moment! Also would have to live apart and not share finances for a certain amount of time. All kinds of crazy requirements, that totally make sense if you are actually getting a divorce, but are clearly meant to prevent people who have figured out the tax ramifications from going back on the deal. Sneaky tax man…

             4. Just found In re Marriage of Left (2012). Ceremony by rabbi WITH ketuba WITHOUT state license not marriage under CA law.

             5. Just keep in mind that if you are the low earner, it is very much in your economic interest to be legally married in California. And if you are the high earner, you should protect yourself whether you are legally married or not because there would almost certainly be a parentage/”palimony” action in the event of a breakup.

       4. For Senior Attorney: all good points. We are currently working under a cohab agreement with a Marvin clause. This discussion has been so helpful. Thank you both!

14. Beautiful dress, but is it really light blue? It looks med gray on my screen.

    1. It looks gray on my screen as well.

    2. On mine it’s definitely a darker navy-ish purple color. I wouldn’t call it light blue.

15. Threadjack question: Has anyone ever had hair extensions before (Specifically “Great Lengths”) and if so can you please comment on your experience including how long they lasted before you had to take them out or get them redone? Thanks in advance, ladies!

16. Many of you have given helpful advice in regards to being productive at work while having ADHD. I started meds about 2 months ago, but still struggle. Any recommendations for books or websites with helpful strategies for staying organized, focused and actually doing all the stuff you write down on your to do list? Thanks!

    1. Yes. I got this from the website for the book Odd One Out.
       ADHDmanagement.com & ADD Management Group, LLC CEO Jennifer Koretsky is the author of the Odd One Out: The Maverick’s Guide to Adult ADD. Odd One Out was was featured on NBC’s Today Show, was an Indie Excellence Book Awards Finalist, and an Amazon.com Best Seller.
       Odd One Out: The Maverick’s Guide to Adult ADD explores the ways in which adult ADD can be both challenging and rewarding, and reveals why this difference offers a remarkable advantage.

       I also recommend FlyLady, although I’m really, really cynical. But she emphasizes baby steps and small times for intense focus “you can do anything for 15 minutes!” So, FlyLady . net is her website.

    2. A while back someone recommended “ADD Friendly Ways to Organize Your Life”, and it has made a HUGE difference for me.

    3. I’m halfway through reading Sari Solden’s ‘Women with Attention Deficit Disorder’ (and in an almost ironically perfect way, it’s taken me months because I keep getting distracted by other books) and I’m finding it really helpful so far.

17. Please share positive stories about people who have left legal careers to return to the careers they had before law school. I’ve decided I’m just not smart enough to be a lawyer, so I’m going to apply for engineering jobs. I just keep getting caught up on the fact that I’ve wasted 7 years and $100k pursuing a legal career when I was doing well as an engineer before law school. I have to get over this before explaining myself in job interviews, but I’m struggling. Thanks, everyone.

    1. Toffee, that’s nonsense. If you’re smart enough to be an engineer you’re smart enough to be a lawyer. Law isn’t rocket science. It’s fine to decide being a lawyer isn’t for you, but making major life decisions based on your insecurity and anxiety just isn’t a good move. How’s therapy going? Are you doing it? Have you started sleeping again? Don’t throw away your career to go do something you already decided you didn’t want to do because you’re insecure.

       1. Woah that comes off harsh! I just think you’re selling yourself way short is all.

          1. Not harsh, I get what you’re saying. I simplified and left out my reasons, since sticking with law just isn’t going to happen. It really comes down to culture. And having actually done rocket science, I must say it really is different. Engineering is learnable; law must be inherent.

             1. This is so interesting. I feel like you have to be 100 times smarter to be an engineer than to be a lawyer. I think the “multiple intelligences” theory really applies here and your kind of intelligence lends itself to engineering rather than law. I wish you luck with transitioning back and I urge you not to let “I wasn’t smart enough to be a lawyer” become part of your personal legend.

                I think explaining it in interviews should be fairly straightforward: “I tried something different and it turned out law totally wasn’t my bag — I’m definitely cut out to be an engineer so I’m coming back to my wheelhouse where I know I can shine.”

                Edited to add I felt the same way you did for the first few years of my legal career. For various reasons I couldn’t go back (no fabulous engineering career to go back to), so I stuck it out and am glad I did. Just putting that out there.

             2. Thank you, SA, this is exactly the advice I’d hoped for. DH is very supportive, but he’s the only one I’ve told about this and doesn’t really seem to understand why law isn’t working out.

             3. I know you mention going back to engineering, but have you considered consulting? I work for a large international consulting firm that hires engineers, JDs, etc.

             4. You know, my father is an engineer and I actually think he could have done well as a lawyer, particularly as a transactional lawyer. I think both fields require a highly analytical mindset (which I don’t always feel that I have, but hey).

    2. If you don’t enjoy law, then I think it’s fine/good to return to your pre-law profession if you enjoyed it. But if you are just feeling insecure, then I think there are other options you should consider first. Therapy? Moving to a more supportive job? Moving to a different specality/job that focuses on the skills you enjoy?

       Having said that, is there a way you can look at the 7 years as a positive. You tried something new. Learned skills you wouldn’t otherwise have. Meet new people. Have you paid off your loans? Any other financial benefit?

       I’m not sure I will stay with law over time, and I often think law school was a mistake I would take back if I could. But it has bought me my house. And in another year (with another bonus season behind me), it will have paid off my student loans. Any put a significant amount of money in my 401K. So, at the end of the day, it may be 10 years I spend in law school and as an attorney, but that 10 years might set me up financially for my future.

       1. deleted

    3. Is there something else going on in your life/at work that’s clouding your perception of this? I have a hard time believing you “aren’t smart enough” to be a lawyer. I think I remember you posting about work troubles on here a while ago. Is it possible that you need to find a different job or perhaps in a different practice area? Maybe this isn’t the best way to think about it; I’m not a lawyer, so I wouldn’t know. I would just explore other possible issue areas to see if you’re really having some other issue, but you’re feeling down so you interpret it as “I’m not smart enough/not good at this”

       1. I have posted before. But after having two soul crushing reviews and being told I get everything wrong and make every mistake possible (his words, not mine), I’m done. Engineering was much better compared to this and, at some point, you have listen when people tell you you’re just not good enough to be a lawyer.

          1. Ok, well nevertheless, I would reframe this as “Law isn’t my thing” rather than “I’m not smart enough to be a lawyer.” Don’t devalue the smarts it takes to be an engineer because that’s what you’re good at. I think it’s helpful to look at this in terms of different types of intelligence, which I think someone mentioned above.

          2. Have you ever worked for anyone else? It sounds like you have a horrible boss. What if you tried one more law job before calling it quits?

             If you have done engineering as well, have you considered patent law?

             1. + 1. That is just a horrible boss, nothing to do with whether you are “smart enough to be a lawyer”

             2. This. It sounds like your boss is seriously harming your self-confidence in law and that can lead to making more mistakes. If you just don’t like the law, then go back to engineering, but try to remember why you decided to go to law school. If you were doing well as an engineer, was there something that made you want to leave the field that you are forgetting about now? No career is perfect, but you can change areas of law or firms rather than quitting law altogether.

          3. I want to give you a hug. I work with a man who gives these kinds of soul crushing reviews to associates and makes them believe them. In my world, they also have me to give them perspective and focus on their strengths. These are people who can (and often do after they leave us) absolutely succeed at practicing law. They just found themselves working for a not always kind (albeit very smart) man who isn’t good at working in any style but his own.

             All that to say–please please please DO NOT base your conclusion on whether you are cut out to practice law on your experiences with one man.

             1. THIS. Working with people who are not able to effectively manage or be constructive is soul crushing. You’re an engineer. You’re a lawyer. You’re smart. Everyone deserves better treatment than those comments, even if they are true (and I just don’t believe they are 100%).

          4. It really sounds like you have a bad job/boss. Have you had multiple jobs in the legal field? Because I’m another person with a science/engineering background who thinks those fields are so much harder than law.

             1. Thanks, everyone. I’ve tried two law firms and had this feedback from three different men. I just don’t see the point in continuing to subject myself to it when I was never treated like this as an engineer. I’m in patent law, but I don’t have enough experience to go in house. So engineering seems to be my only option.

             2. Toffee — it sounds like you and I are in very very similar boats. If you ever want to vent to a more direct source, as you mention you’ve only shared this with DH, I’m happy to be there. I’m an ex-engineer, in patent litigation working with men who provide not-so-thoughtful feedback. shaylabubbly {at} the gmail. I apologize for the anon email, but public forum and all.
                Even if you don’t reach out, I’ll be sending happy thoughts your way.

             3. Re: going in-house…are you in patent prosecution or litigation? I know some who have gone in-house in prosecution after as little as 6 months. That’s unusual, but it seems fairly common after a year or two. Patent prosecution has a much shorter timeline for going in-house than a lot of other fields. Definitely something to explore.

          5. My former boss told me that i would basically never succeed as a lawyer multiple times. I didn’t have any confidence in my ability to do ANYTHING in the legal field. I was particularly insecure about my writing, which I would have previously said was something I was very good at. I switched jobs, and I have had nothing but positive feedback, a good performance review, and continue to be given more responsibilities. It does happen!

          6. Have you thought about law with an engineering basis? Patents?

             It sounds like it might be where you are working now…I’ve had that boss. She was horrible. Mean, told me everything I did was wrong, and said I shouldn’t be a lawyer. Lucky for me I had her after a few previous bosses which were ok. I got out of there and now my current employer is happy with everything I do.

             1. I second trying to combine. I have a brother who became a patent attorney after getting his engineering degree. He admits, though that engineering and law use totally different parts of the brain.

                Good luck!

          7. Go with your strengths and build your strengths and then you will succeed just by being yourself. I was in the wrong major in college – thought it was harder, more challenging and that the field where my innate strength lay was too “easy.” Turns out it was just “easy for me” and not for lots of others. My work is in that field now and I have been very successful. If I had stayed with my college major path, I would have been beating my head against a wall through my whole career, putting wasted energy into compensating for “weaknesses” rather than building on my strengths. Now having kids with very different innate talents and personalities I can see how every person is just wired so differently and you need to find a career path that _fits you_ not just struggle to fit your career path.

          8. I’ve received such soul-crushing reviews and while I am still in law (although in a non-stressful gov’t job), I completely get leaving. It soured me on private practice forever and I don’t regret leaving one bit. (I did not have a prior career to which I could return). I have one law school classmate who returned to finance after a few years in biglaw and another who went back to computer-y stuff after a few years prosecuting. I don’t think either regrets it and I think their law degrees do come in handy with spotting potential legal issues they can bring to the attention of their clients/bosses

          9. I understand how you feel. But were those reviews from the same person? Same practice? I think you owe it to yourself to at least explore a firm/practice group switch before you leave. I worked for a toxic person my first year out and also felt like I was too dumb to be a lawyer. Eight years and multiple bosses later, I now understand that she was just toxic and I was just learning. It was a bad combo. It’s much better now.

          10. This happened to me when I was a second year. My reviews were so awful that the partners summed it up thusly: “Maybe you are not meant to be a lawyer.” I didn’t get a raise or a bonus that year.

              So, I switched Biglaw firms. After one year at my new law firm, I got the following review: “You are one of the best junior associates we’ve ever had.” I’m not exaggerating in the slightest. I’m exactly the same associate I was at my old firm, yet somehow I developed a good reputation at the new place that stuck.

              Reviews are often arbitrary and can be a reflection of a number of things which have nothing to do with your talent and potential. Unless YOU think that law is not something you enjoy, I would say — don’t give up hope yet.

              1. Similar thing happened to me, although not quite as dramatic.

                 Sometimes a big element of reviews is whether you click with partners, or if people like you.

                 I was like you- I thought I was a terrible lawyer for a period of time. Now I realize my ex bosses had certain expectations for women and that was a huge reason why I wasn’t liked (I was told to “smile more” for example, but at my current firm, I was told in my review that they all find me a pleasure to work with. Go figure.)

          11. Speaking as someone who works for a jerk, this guy is a jerk. F him.

    4. Trust me, if you’re smart enough to be an engineer, you are about 100X smarter than the vast majority of my opposing counsel. I would do some self-reflection on why you think you’re not smart enough.

       If being a practicing lawyer isn’t what you want to do, then that’s different. But please don’t sell yourself short.

       1. Ehh, casting this as smart or not smart is a little false. Lawyering is a different way of thinking that may not be right for the OP. Maybe try for the best of both and do IP or go back to engineering if you feel better at it. No shame in that.

          1. I agree, my first comment was (mostly) in jest. My husband is legitimately smarter than me, but simply cannot comprehend “lawyer thinking.” Different strokes.

    5. My public agency has a number of engineer/lawyers who are in the higher eschelons of management – its a good combo for managing large construction projects. You might want to shift your career towards that direction.

       1. If you don’t mind me asking, what public agency needs construction managers?

          1. I would imagine most transportation departments do.

             1. Heavy Civil is a different animal.

          2. USDA for one. A friend taught construction for them. USAID. Maybe others?

          3. GSA, too.

    6. I echo what others have said — it’s not about being “not smart enough” it’s about different types of intelligence. FWIW I’m a lawyer and I think it’s INSANELY harder to be an engineer. But that’s because law fits the way I think and engineering does not.

       Have you considered a career shift that would still use your law degree to some extent but not in a legal position? How senior are you? I’m a litigator with no science background and I’ve been thinking about moving in-house, and SO MANY positions in the region of the country I’m interested in (Bay Area) want someone with a science/engineering background. Some of those positions are really more business than law, but they want someone with a law degree (so, no wasted $100K!). Your background would be a tremendous asset. I would also recommend thinking about patent law, but if you are sure that you don’t want to be a lawyer, period, it sounds like that wouldn’t be a great idea either.

       If you really want to be an engineer again, though, and that is what will make you happy, DO IT. Please don’t stress out too much about the “wasted” money. Yes, it was an expensive way to learn what makes you happy, but life is really short and it’s not worth staying in a career that you know isn’t right for you just because you have sunk costs. 20 years from now the money won’t matter anymore and you’ll be so happy you didn’t spend 20 years doing something you hate that makes you feel unintelligent (which you so clearly are NOT).

    7. Can you recount what made you decide engineering is not good for you? Are you sure you will not feel the same way again? May be there is something new (not engineering, not law) that you may enjoy doing (not just tolerate doing)? I would think about this before returning to engineering just so that you are not jumping from miserable place to other.

    8. I kind of went back to my pre-law career, which was science (though not engineering). I’m not doing bench work, but am doing regulatory work that requires understanding both how the law works and how science/product development works. I briefly considered patents in law school, but I find it very anti-thetical to the logical rules based thinking I felt more comfortable with. I actually left law school thinking I’d do tax work, since I really enjoyed working within that regulated structure (as convoluted as it is).

       So, maybe that’s a way to return to engineering without abandoning the law completely (if that’s a concern for you). I’m happy to talk with you about what I know, if you are interested.

       And – I’ll echo all the other comments – engineering and law can be very different types of thinking. One is very concrete and fact based and the other requires details but allows for creatively and requires a certain amount of story telling that I still find hard.

    9. I did it, also in a technical field. It sucks to have wasted that time and money, but not hating my life is so much more important. Much like you I had a culture issue, ie, they were horrible human beings intent on sucking out all of my life’s energy. When I was asked why I was basically reverting to my old career, I straight up told them. Sometimes I tried to make it sound more positive by talking about work life balance, sometimes I gave them actual examples of things that had happened. I’m a damn good attorney, so long as I don’t have to deal with other attorneys or clients.

18. I was wondering if anyone has any opinions about buying a clarisonic versus one of the less expensive drug store versions (I’ve specifically been looking at the olay one). Right now I have a very cheap one knock off that I bought at Marshalls for about 7 dollars, and I really like it, but its so cheap that I can’t find replacement brushes. If it makes any difference I have oily/acne prone skin. The clarisonic is pretty expensive for my budget, but if it really does a much better job, or will last way longer, I can stretch to get one. I would also appreciate any advice about how often you have to replace brushes, since that factors into the pricing issue. Thanks!

    1. I initially bought the olay knock off and then realized I really wanted/needed a clarisonic. The big difference is that the clarisonic makes little pulsing back and forth motions and feels more like it’s vibrating my skin than pulling it. The Olay one just spins in a circle and feels like it’s tugging my skin.

       I do use the olay one for body though- it’s really useful on my elbows pre-sunless tanner.

    2. I have the Clarisonic and the Olay one. It’s like comparing the sonicare/oral b toothbrush to the cheap rotary motorized ones you get at the drug store. The mechanics really are different. I prefer the Clarisonic and think it does a better job cleaning my skin without irritating it. I don’t replace my brush heads very often, but I do clean them regularly and that seems to help them last.

       1. What do you clean them with – is just regular soap enough?

          1. What is important is that you take the brush off the machine so you can clean all the gunk behind it.

          2. I take the brush off and dump hydrogen peroxide on the brush head. I then rinse it really well. I also swab out the area where the brush attaches. You could probably use tea tree oil as well.

          3. Remove the brush head and soak it in a solution of white vinegar and water for a few hours.

    3. Cap Hill Style compared this a few weeks ago, maybe in December before the holidays? I feel like she liked a non-Clarisonic brush better, but check it out.

       1. So did The Daily Connoisseur (at some point within the past year)

       2. Thanks! I’ll search for that.

    4. I’ve had my clarisonic for 5/6 years and its still going strong. Ideally I replace the brush every 3 months, but sometimes go longer. About a year in I had an issue (can’t remember what now) and they sent me a replacement with no issue. Highly recommend it!

    5. I have the Olay one. I’m not expecting it to do deep cleansing or remove my makeup — it’s just exfoliating maybe once a week for me. I do have my eye on a Luna mini.

       For the Olay — I’ve had mine at least 4 years (I got it right when it came out). I’ve got dry, sensitive skin, so I don’t use it all that often (also why I don’t have Clarisonic). It’s ok, but not a miracle worker. I think the Clarisonic would be too much for my skin to take.

    6. Costco has a Conair knockoff right now, and it comes with 3 brushes and a body brush. Seems to work well so far!

    7. Check out Caroline Hirons on why she thinks these brushes aren’t great – I think she recommends an arsenal of clean face cloths, so that you only use each once before laundering.

    8. Thank you all for your input!

19. Any recommendations for comfortable, supportive pointy-toe flats? I swear Kat posted a “hunt” recently on professional flats, but I can’t seem to find it. I am having back issues that are putting my heels out of commission, and I need some awesome, professional flats to replace them! Help!

    1. All I ever wear are pointy toe flats, although I do find that many of them don’t have enough support. I recently bought a pair from brooks brothers that aren’t bad on the support front. My Kate Spade flats are fairly good as well. Just steer clear of anything marketed as ballet flats and you’ll probably be okay. It really does depend on how much support you need, though. My flats feel thick enough in the sole that I can’t feel everything on the ground the way I can with ballet flats.

    2. CHS had a rundown of what makes suiting flats. You might want to look into insoles – insoles might be easier to find than supportive flats.

    3. Corso como mirage is a comfy flat. And I have a lot of difficulties with flats.

    4. Was it this, maybe? https://corporette.com/2014/08/05/interview-flats/ Or maybe this one: https://corporette.com/2014/12/15/flat-dressy-boots/

       1. I was thinking of the interview flats one – thanks! And thanks all for the recommendations.

    5. Louise et Cie Azalya, from Nordstrom. I have an odd shoe size, so my selection is limited, but these are the most comfortable flats I’ve ever owned.

    6. I’m a fan of the Audrey Brooke Cici flat available at DSW. Will follow up with link. Not super supportive, but real leather and pointy toed and under $50!

       1. Black and brown http://www.dsw.com/shoe/audrey+brooke+cici+leather+flat?prodId=291201&brand=300036&activeCats=women,300036&isBrand=y&categoryName=women

          Fun teal suede http://www.dsw.com/shoe/audrey+brooke+cici+suede+flat?prodId=dsw12prod6010157&brand=300036&activeCats=women,300036&isBrand=y&categoryName=women

          Weird reptile print http://www.dsw.com/shoe/audrey+brooke+cici+reptile+flat?prodId=dsw12prod5560157&brand=300036&activeCats=women,300036&isBrand=y&categoryName=women

          Navy patent http://www.dsw.com/shoe/audrey+brooke+cici+patent+flat?prodId=dsw12prod5350018&brand=300036&activeCats=women,300036&isBrand=y&categoryName=women

20. Has anyone else seen the news that Harper Lee is publishing a second book and internally going “squeeeeee” while sitting at their desk?

    Just me? Oh, okay….

    http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/harper-lee-published-july-28687808?singlePage=true

    1. Saw this. Very excited to read it. I wonder if there was any temptation to revise/edit based on reviews of Mockingbird and cultural changes. It appears that it’s untouched which will be interesting.

    2. Not at all just you! My Facebook feed is blowing up with this news (including me posting a link to the NY Times story). Could not be more excited!!

    3. Not just you! I’m so excited.

    4. I’m all over it! :)

       1. Yikes- maybe not anymore

          http://jezebel.com/be-suspicious-of-the-new-harper-lee-novel-1683488258

          1. Rut-roh.

          2. Ugh. Now, watching the news segment about it just now I’m little like, “Yeah….”

             Do you think it will affect how you read it when it comes out?

21. AGL! (you can get them at nordstrom and other higher-end stores). I feel like I’m on the verge of becoming a shill for this brand, but I love them. Someone posted a couple of days ago to their pointy-toed 1.5″ heel, and they have a flat of the same pointy toe style. I couldn’t wear flats before I found AGL due to my extreme flat feet and plantar fasciitis but they have some kind of hidden platform or wedge so they look and feel flat for the most part but are incredibly supportive. I have 3 pairs of their ballet flats and 2 of their 1.5″ heels and that’s pretty much my shoe collection (because, they are pricey!). Their pointy toe flats are new-ish so I’m not sure how many reviews they have but if you buy from nordstrom they have free returns, no questions asked, if they end up not working for you.

22. Does anyone have any new blogs their reading and loving lately? I’m looking to update my Bloglovin’ feed. Thanks ladies!

    1. I recently found Forever Amber in the UK, and I really enjoy her blog. It’s not a business type blog, but she’s highly entertaining!

    2. I’ve just started following a ton more cycling and knitting blogs (for some reason I’m only now finding all my favourite designers’ blogs). I think my favourite blogs are A Beauty Junkie in London (Jen has a fantastic voice and I like her makeup aesthetic so I trust her recommendations – lots of lightweight foundations, no scary brights, etc) and Rachel Phipps, which is a food/lifestyle blog. I’m now scrolling through my favourited posts on BlogLovin’ and most of them seem to be from Pinch of Yum, Gimme Some Oven, College Prep, and The Girl Who Ate Everything.

    3. Its an email not a blog, but the Skimm is great.

23. Oops wrong place

24. Have any of you ladies purchased carpet, and have tips on the buying process? Things we should watch out for, things that you wish you would have known, etc.? We are buying carpet for our new (to us) house, and I would appreciate any tips given!

    1. Wall to wall? Get a good quality pad.

       1. Yes, it will be wall to wall. What constitutes a good quality pad? Obviously they’ll usually cost more, but what else should I be looking for? Thickness? I’ve already done some research on carpet types, but not pads, so I’ll do some looking into it! Thanks.

       2. A quality pad makes all the difference. We also got some sort of stain resistant product. Look at independent carpet stores in addition to the big box stores. If you are going to be walking on it every day, you might as well make it comfortable (as opposed to a rental house or a house you are about to sell).

    2. I owned a home I couldn’t sell so I rented it out. Some tenants trashed it. We bought cheap Home Depot carpet for the place. Basically, the cheapest, indoor beige carpet. When it was installed, it looked just as nice, if not nicer than the fancy pants name brand extra plush carpet my parents had bought for their house. I can’t say how well it held up or resisted stains but it looked great when it was installed. Carefully consider whether expensive really is better here.

       1. We will definitely be going for cheaper rather than expensive. My husband is not a big spender, so I’m just trying to figure out if there are some things that are important to fight for. :) We’ll have to check out Home Depot too! Thanks for the rec.

    3. If you’re going to go with only one color, you probably need to make it boring builder beige. I’m not a huge fan of it either, but it’s unobtrusive. We looked at a house that had baby blue carpet throughout. The owners had put it in brand new to attract buyers, but there was no way to make anything work with that color.

       1. We are definitely going with a neutral. Probably beige, unless we find something gray that is neutral enough. For some reason, the only carpet I think that looks good is beige anyway. (Full disclosure though: I’m not a huge fan of carpet at all, but DH wants it in the bedrooms at least; and it’s not an issue I want to push. He cares about it more than I do!)

25. I am vacationing in Florida and have access to a Dillard’s for probably the first time. Wondering if people recommend Antonio Melani dresses, etc for workwear. Would appreciate any insight on the quality, fit or general experiences with the brand. Thanks!

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