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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
This Ted Baker top caught my eye when I was doing our roundup on modern blouses for suits a while ago. It's not quite a blouse, but it reads like a blouse — it's like an elevated, fancy t-shirt (as you might expect for something that's $95). It's hand washable, and it's 100% lyocell, which means it should be crazy soft. I like the floral print — it's very unexpected, and different from other things I've seen. (It also comes in a long-sleeved V-neck for $229.) And brown is coming back, so keep an eye out if you like brown. This top comes in sizes 0–5 (00–14) at Nordstrom. Jimble Supernatural Top
Two plus-size floral options at Nordstrom from Halogen and Vince Camuto are available in 1X–3X.
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Diana Barry
Help! UK ladies, would one of you be able to shop for me at Boots and ship to the US? I am in need of a Max Factor concealer and motion sickness tablets, neither of which I can buy here. :(
Anon
Is it possible to buy these online and have them shipped to US by a freight forwarder?
Cb
I could do it, just post a burner email and I’ll email you.
Diana Barry
Thank you! Diana barry r e t t e at g m a i l (I can similarly ship you US products you can’t get here!) :)
Cb
I’ve tried multiple variations of this (no spaces, underscores etc) with no joy. Am I missing a letter?
Diana Barry
Hmm, it should just be dianabarry then r e t t e (no spaces) at the g mail – let me know your email if you want and I can send to you!
anne-on
FYI – bonine motion sickness tablets are very good and widely available (and on amazon).
Diana Barry
I have tried those and they don’t work for me (similarly dramamine, meclizine, etc., that are available here).
Thyroid Nodule
Hi Hive – long time reader/posted going anonymous for this.
Went to the doctor for a bad respiratory infection, and while feeling my neck for swollen glands they found swelling on my thyroid’s right side. One ultrasound later I was told via an email from my doctor in the online patient portal that a small nodule was found. The nodule type is the one that could be cancerous (could… still only like 10% are cancerous). It’s too small to biopsy and the recommendation is to monitor for continued growth.
My family has a STRONG history of cancers of all kinds, including one occurrence of thyroid cancer in a cousin a few years older than me caught when she was two years older than I am now. The idea of waiting to see if it grows is incredibly unsettling. Maybe I just have PTSD of some kind from all of the cancers I’ve watched others both beat and be beaten by, but I don’t know. I have a call into the doctor to figure out how regularly we can do follow up ultrasounds, but I’m curious if anyone has experience with something like this. Maybe offer some words of reassurance, beyond the obvious ‘stop googling’?
FWIW I’m at a world-renowned hospital in a major city. The doctor who found this, ordered the ultrasound and wrote the follow up commentary is not my primary care, but was covering the day I went in for my sick appointment. To be honest, I liked her a lot more than my primary care (considering switching permanently) but she doesn’t know my full history. She has been informing my primary care throughout.
Anon
Your google search is not a substitute for a medical degree.
Talk to her about your concerns. If this is too small to biopsy, there may not be other options other than to watch it. Thyroid cancer may not have any sort of genetic component (and a cousin is, genetically, has 1/8th of your DNA). You have risk factors, or not, separate from your family. It’s possible that if it is cancerous, it is a type that is easily treated.
Anonymous
+1 As long as it’s monitored, there’s nothing else to do for now (get a second opinion if it will make you feel better, though!). If it gets any bigger, you can get it removed. The good thing is you can live without a thyroid, so they can just take out the whole thing if there’s any indication of a problem.
Idea
A friend who had this was told “ah it’s nothing, watch and wait” by her GP, then went to a thyroid specialist who removed the nodules. Definitely seek 2nd opinion. Sorry that’s not what you’re looking for
Anon
I have Graves’ disease which is linked to a 20 fold higher risk of thyroid cancer. I was pretty freaked when they found a nodule, but they were reassured by what they saw on the ultrasound and didn’t even want to biopsy it. I will have yearly ultrasounds to monitor it. If it’s too small to biopsy (under 1 cm?) that’s a very good sign. If it is cancer (which hopefully it’s not) it was caught very early. You probably know this from Google, but thyroid cancer is incredibly treatable. It has something like a 97% survival rate and that includes cases where the cancer has spread to the lymph nodes, which wouldn’t occur until the nodule is much bigger, like 3 cm. They’ll detect any growth on the US and biopsy as soon as it reaches 1 cm, which is still comparatively very early. I know it might seem weird but “watch and measure” is definitely the standard of care with respect to small thyroid masses. Good luck!
Anon
Replying to myself to add that I don’t think it’s a bad idea to get an endocrinologist if you have a thyroid nodule. But I will say that if you had an ultrasound, the person reading and interpreting the ultrasound is a radiologist who is trained in looking at these nodules and determining whether they appear benign or cancerous and/or whether they’re big enough to biopsy – and it’s the same person reading the ultrasound whether it was a PCP or an endo that referred you to the ultrasound. I have an endo, but he just follows the radiologist’s assessment of what the ultrasound results mean.
Long time lurker
For what it’s worth I’ve had two thyroid nodules for the last 7 years with no changes. I get an ultrasound every year to check them. There are qualities of nodules such as size and echogenic/solidness that determine risk for cancer. Get a second opinion if you want (get the ultrasound report). However echoing another poster – watch and wait is the standard in most cases. There was a very interesting article in New York Times re over treatment of harmless thyroid nodules.
Candidate
My thyroid is also enlarged, with a big nodule. Almost 1.5x normal size. In my case, it is not cancerous! (I hope that’s partially reassuring).Have you had your thyroid hormone levels checked? I think you should have that done and definitely get a second opinion.
Enlarged, hypoactive thyroids run in my family. My dad had his removed about 5 years ago, at age 55, because they said it would be easier then rather than waiting 10 years until he was 65. His mother never had hers operated on, but both take supplementary thyroid hormones. I expect I will go through a similar process, my hormone levels are on the low end of normal and I go for a yearly check-up on the size of my nodules, and eventually will either go on pills or have the whole thing taken out, or both. (I’m deathly afraid of a neck scar, I have an elegant long neck that I love and don’t want to have surgery. But, at the end of the day if I need to for my health I will).
Anon
Surgery is no longer the standard for hypoactive/hyperactive thyroid, at least in the US. They usually start with meds and if those don’t work, they do the radioactive iodine treatment which destroys your thyroid non-surgically. It only has to come out if it’s so big that it’s interfering with your life, or if you have cancer.
SFchic
I would absolutely find an endocrinologist now. The best thyroid specialist at the best hospital. Do not wait for your primary care doctor (or this ?random Doctor you are seeing) to refer you. Do not rely upon the random radiologist who read your ultrasound recs on when to follow up.
The specialist will take a detailed history, will do a detailed exam, and will watch you over time in case issues arise. They will recommend when the next scan will be done. It will probably be the same as what the radiologist recommended. But remember…. The radiologist did not examine you and doesn’t know your personal and family history. You want someone who has.
You are going to be fine.
HSAL
I know some people here stick with cruelty-free skincare – has anyone tried Thrive Causemetics? Wardrobe Oxygen did a review of tube mascaras and really liked their version, so I was curious about some of their other products.
ANON
Yes, I love their mascara. I really liked the CC cream too but couldn’t get the color matched correctly to my skin tone. They will let you return it though if you don’t match it right which I appreciated-I just wasn’t willing to do that more than once.
Anon
This top is…interesting. I’m trying to find a polite word for “ugly.”
Anon
My grandma’s favorite way to say she hated something was to say it “was interesting”. Lol
CountC
My phrase for this is, “It’s not my favorite.”
Duchess
Mine too! My friends used to tease me about it all the time (good-naturedly).
anon
When my southern gentleman of a husband doesn’t like something, he says “it’s something different.” As in, “did you like this new soup recipe?” H: “it’s something different.” Always code for not a fan!
Anon
For a $95 top, I would expect that the pattern would continue all over the top. The fact that the back is entirely solid is… what one expects from a $15 top.
ElisaR
agree
anon
Agree that it is expensive for what it is, but I actually like the fun print. I would totally wear this with a navy cardigan and navy ankle pants. I don’t like it styled with the dark jeans.
pugsnbourbon
I like it too! I wouldn’t spend $95 on it but if it eventually shows up at a TJMaxx I’m all over it.
Idea
I did like the long-sleeve blouse version
cbackson
I don’t think it’s ugly as much as it just doesn’t look very “now” to me.
Delta Dawn
Agree, I had a very similar top in 2007. Liked it at the time and got rid of it four or five years ago with the feeling that it looked dated.
Senior Attorney
I feel like there’s a small chance it would look fresh on a young woman, but on 60-year-old me it would just look Old.
Anon
Does anyone here eat meat, but not eggs or dairy, for ethical reasons? I’ve been mulling over what I think is the most humane and I may be concluding that the best option for human health and animal welfare is to eat animals and fish that you have killed yourself (or that you can verify were killed humanely), not eat animals from factory farms at all, and not eat eggs and dairy because of the increased and unnatural (and unhealthy) physical demands they place on chickens and cows. I’m also concerned that society has downplayed their intelligence and ability to feel emotional distress as well as the impacts on climate change. I do currently eat meat, eggs, and dairy, mostly organic, but conditions for animals raised for consumption are sickening and I feel that I’ve ignored that little voice in my head for too long. I don’t feel that eating meat is inherently evil (since we are omnivores like many other creatures), and I do think a human diet containing some animal products is healthier, but I ultimately want to find the least cruel and most natural way to consume animals. Has anyone heard of or tried the humane-meat, no-eggs, no-dairy approach? I haven’t really heard of anyone doing it before, but I’m not that well versed in these issues. Would appreciate any other perspectives.
Houda
The thing is, the moment you bring words like humane into the equation, you might get the categorically-no people reacting negatively because you are not going all in.
The closest argument I have seen to yours is a colleague who is from a farm-type region in England and he eats red meat but not lamb or veal because to him these are infant animals and he feels better about eating beef and mutton.
I personally limited my meat consumption and now occasionally eat game meat but do not think that them being shot is humane so I just reduce as much as possible and that is my little contribution. Not good enough for some, but I can live with that.
Anonymous
Interesting! Not OP but I also have a ‘no baby animals’ rule and don’t eat lamb/veal. I don’t eat a lot of red meat in general so it’s not hard to follow.
cbackson
Lamb is actually typically the most humanely raised of the conventionally farmed meats…
Anonymous
I believe it’s important to support farmers who are making conscientious choices. I wouldn’t exclude eggs and dairy categorically. I don’t know where you live, but everywhere I’ve lived it’s been possible to visit farms and actually see the conditions the animals live in and how they’re treated. The differences can be night and day.
Anonymous
This. It’s not a meat vs. eggs/dairy issue for me. We buy meat, eggs and dairy locally at the farmer’s market but try to do a mostly plant based diet. I’m also concerned about climate change and I think it’s better for the environment overall to eat locally and in season as much as possible even if that involves including some meat, dairy and egg vs. being vegan but relying on many imported or more artifical products. E.g. a lot of palm oil production is very problematic from an environmental perspective.
There’s no 100% right answer but generally speaking, avoiding factory farming where possible is a good start.
Curly
Same here. I buy meat from a local farmer, and I usually eat vegetarian in restaurants unless it’s a place that I know buys only local meat.
I also think it’s possible to get humanely produced eggs and dairy (especially eggs). I’m not as good about dairy because I eat a lot of yogurt and haven’t found a good local source for cow’s milk, but I do try to get local sheep/goat cheese and eggs. My family raised chickens when I was growing up, and we’d collect their eggs every day. They got to roam around and eat bugs and whatever else chickens eat to their hearts’ content, so I don’t think they were treated inhumanely at all.
Anon
+1 I don’t know much about dairy but there are a lot of humane eggs out there. I have several friends who have chickens that are well taken care of, have full range of their back yard and a nice chicken coup. There’s a huge range in how eggs are produced. For what it’s worth once you’ve had fresh eggs, it’s also very noticeable taste wise when you compare to factory farm eggs.
Anonymous
I would also recommend looking into heritage breed conservation. Ethical farming in the future will depend on the survival of the cows, chickens, etc., who haven’t been bred for short lives on factory farms and who can reproduce on their own. The farms who currently raise these breeds are doing important work and deserve support.
Anonymous
Ummm what? This makes zero sense. If you’re confident you can source meat from animals who humanely raised, you can certainly find dairy and eggs from humanely treated animals. Just be a vegetarian don’t create some weird new annoying thing to pat yourself on the back about while still eating animals.
Anon
I guess I understand only eating wild animals you kill yourself, because then you’re not eating any animals raised on farms. But if you believe you can purchase humanely-raised meat, why can’t you purchase humane eggs or dairy? And if you’re worried about the climate, cutting meat should be a first step before cutting eggs or dairy. Beef cows contribute far more to climate change than chickens or dairy cows, regardless of farming practices.
Anonymous
I’m not sure that hunting is a particularly ethical way of obtaining meat. Yes, the animal had a better life. But its death was likely inhumane. It’s rare to get a perfect shot. If you’re hunting birds, you usually hit the wing or some part of its body. Once it falls, you’ll either have a dog track down the bird and break its neck, or you have to go through the field to find it and shoot it – and hopefully you actually find it. For deer/elk, again, you’re typically not killing the animal with the first shot. You hit it once, it runs, and you have to track the trail of blood to find it and kill it. Sometimes it takes hours to find the animal, sometimes you can’t find it and the animal will die of an infection days later.
Anon
My husband is a hunter and the only animal protein (aside from eggs) we eat is deer, fowl, or fish he took himself. (Our eggs are either from local farmers markets or organic free range from the store.)
If any hunter is routinely missing shots and wounding animals instead of killing, they should hang up their rifle. That absolutely is cruel. I will push back on the idea that it’s “rare” to get a perfect shot and the idea that it’s common to spend “hours” tracking an animal. My husband and all of the hunters I know won’t take a shot unless they’re sure they can kill the animal cleanly. For deer, my husband even prefers to bow hunt because with a swift arrow to the heart, the animal is less likely to bolt than had the animal heard a gun go off – double insurance for a clean shot.
Are there cruel and unethical hunters? (Like the jerk who runs his hunting dogs on our land in the middle of the night during fawning season and knows there’s nothing we can do about it because our state has no enforcement mechanisms for dog trespass or out of season hunting?) Sure. But most are not.
Anonymous
Agree. As a non-hunter lawyer who works in wildife law, please report this guy even if they don’t enforce. Statistics about the number of complaints about violations is one of the key metrics we use to argue for greater enforcement dollars and prosecutorial resources.
Anon
Good to know – thanks!
anon
How you choose to eat is your choice and you don’t have to justify it to others. I try to eat less meat for environmental reasons and I simply don’t like eggs. I do love cheese, but try to limit it and other dairy products for health reasons.
Anon
Eggs are one of the easiest thing to get humanely produced, especially if you don’t live in a super urban area.
Anon
OP here. I have long said the same thing that man here are saying (that I’ll just eat humane eggs and dairy), but I don’t think that’s enough now. Even in the most idyllic setting possible, chickens raised for egg producing lay eggs at a far greater rate than their wild counterparts (a wild hen, like a prairie hen, only lays about six eggs per year). Cows on the most perfect organic farm are still made to endure frequent pregnancies and weaning (and emotional distress at separation from their calves). Those are the issues I’m thinking about – that the entire concept of eating eggs and dairy can’t be humane because of the unnatural demands it poses on female animals, even though it’s ceertainly very true that animals are treated much better on family farms compared to factory farms.
Anonymous
Then don’t literally murder animals to eat them either.
Annonnnn
+1
cbackson
I don’t know where you’re getting that information about eggs. I kept a pair of backyard chickens, which ranged freely except at night, and for 9 months of the year, they laid daily. I didn’t put light in their coop, so they didn’t lay in the winter, but otherwise it was every day. Also, when you say a “wild hen,” what type of animal are you talking about? Feral chickens? (I.e., gallus gallus domesticus) Or a different species?
Farms
+1 I grew up on a farm and this is just not accurate information about chickens. First of all, there is no such thing as a wild chicken, in the sense of an undomesticated chicken population. Any wild chicken is a chicken that was previously domesticated and has gone out into the wild. You are referring to a “wild hen” or “prairie hen,” but that is not a chicken. It’s a pheasant and a completely different species.
I understand when people want to make ethical and human choices, but I can’t understand when they do so based on absolutely incorrect information. You are discussing this path of eliminating eggs from your diet based on a total misunderstanding of animals. Pheasants lay fewer eggs than chickens. There are wild pheasants. There are no wild chickens.
You can make whatever decisions you like, but please don’t spread misinformation about how mistreated farm birds are when you have no idea what you are talking about. The villainization of the agriculture industry based on complete misinformation is an unfair punishment to many hardworking farmers and ranchers around the country.
Anon
+1
Anon
+10000 I don’t know how you can claim to want to eat meat that is only humanely killed but categorically decide eggs are all inhumane. Chickens naturally lay eggs without any human intervention. Unless you are only proposing to eat animals who died of natural causes your views are wildly inconcositent to me.
Do whatever you want but don’t expect brownie points for avoiding eggs but eating meat. Also please stop spreading false information.
Anon
No one is asking for “brownie points” or spreading false information. Chickens lay far more eggs for human consumption than they would if left to their own devices. You can disagree that that’s an issue, but not with the facts.
Anon
At Anon at 12:04 it is not true that chickens left to their own devices lay 6 eggs a year. I have tons of friends that keep chickens as pets, don’t do anything to encourage them to lay more eggs and they lay daily/every other day for the majority of the year. So yes, the OP is spreading false information.
Curly
You should certainly do what you’re comfortable with! On the egg point, I will say that domestic hens that farmers raise are just different animals from wild hens. Yes, in their history they were bred to lay more eggs, but I don’t think that fact in and of itself means that chickens raised humanely on farms are being harmed. In other words, their genetic makeup makes them lay more eggs, but I’m not convinced that’s harmful for the chicken who’s otherwise healthy and happy. If there’s evidence to the contrary that anyone is familiar with, I’d be interested in reading it.
Anon
The other commenters are right, chickens lay what they lay whether they’re in the wild or in a coop. Humans don’t do something to make them lay more eggs in captivity, it’s all in the breed. Prairie chickens are different animals from your basic rhode island red. I’m honestly not aware that there is anything you can do to increase egg production even if you wanted to – mine free ranged during the day and lived their best life and produced about 4-5 eggs/week. If it helps, you should go check out the Backyard Chickens forums – some of those people treat their chickens like lap dogs to a shocking degree (did you know that chicken diapers are a thing? they are horrifyingly real).
Walnut
“the entire concept of eating eggs and dairy can’t be humane because of the unnatural demands it poses on female animals”
Unnatural demands? You mean…biology?
Anonymous
“Domesticated” human women ovulate more too. I’m happy to entertain the perspective that this is inhumane, but I’m not really worried about chickens.
Anon
Grass-fed (organic) beef meat made from castrated bulls is possibly something you could consider, if you can find a farmer that you trust. (I’m sorry if that’s the wrong word for them.)
cbackson
So I am someone who feels like reducing consumption of animal products across the board is an ethical necessity due to the impact on climate change and the cruelty of factory farming. I still eat fish (although I’m careful about that from an ecological perspective), but I don’t eat beef or pork at all and only eat chicken and eggs if I’m completely confident as to the conditions in which they were produced. For me, that means chicken and eggs come only from trusted sources (preferably, a specific farmer at my farmer’s market, but when the market is closed, from egg brands that I’ve researched). I used to keep chickens and so long as the chickens are living in good conditions, egg farming is not concerning to me (chickens produce eggs naturally, without human intervention). I don’t drink dairy milk, but I do consume some dairy products, although I search out the humanest alternatives possible. In general, I believe that getting more people to eat fewer animal products is more important than getting a small number of people to become vegans. So reducing, not eliminating, has been my goal, except for things I can’t bear ethically (pork I just can’t handle, because pigs are so intelligent).
I will say that I try to balance these values with other things that are important to me, like honoring the hospitality of others when I’m a guest, which means that if I show up to someone’s house and they offer me spaghetti and meatballs, I will eat it, with gratitude for their welcome.
Curly
Do you have any resources about which fish are better from an ecological perspective? You seem like you’ve researched and thought about this issue, so I’m curious. I’ve recently been learning about overfishing, and even something like Seafood Watch makes me not want to eat any fish because there are so many variables that can make one type of fish ok vs scarily overfished. Because I’ve been so overwhelmed with the information, I’ve stopped eating any fish other than at one restaurant in my town that gets their fish from a responsible farm nearby.
anon
There’s an app called Seafood Watch that rates how sustainably a type of fish is. It is put out by the Monterey Bay Aquarium.
Curly
I’ve downloaded that one and love the idea, but it ends up being too overwhelming for me sometimes. For example, some salmon get the green light, but depending on lots of factors (not just the general region or wild vs farm), it might be overfished. I never know all that info, so I end up just avoiding. Which could be the answer, I suppose!
Anonny
Killing something that doesn’t want to die is never ethical. You are of course free to chose whatever diet you want, but doing so under the guise of ethics is disingenuous. Its pretty easy to eat a varied local vegan diet, and I say that as someone from a very very cold place in Canada. Just takes a bit of planning, canning and root veggies.
Anon
I don’t agree with this because I think that animals, including humans, evolved to eat meat and that it isn’t inherently cruel to kill another creature for nutrition, but I do think humans have an obligation to be kind and not cruel (the obvious example is no factory farming). I also don’t think vegan diets can satisfy all nutritional needs, although I strongly respect your principles and ability to make it work even in tough environments.
cbackson
I mean, your first sentence is a position, not a fact. It’s entirely possible and common for ethics to differ on this issue, as is reflected in this thread.
Anonymous
I don’t really think of myself as morally superior to tigers.
AnonForPigs
I’m probably one of the closest people your going to find to what you’re thinking. For non-meat-eaters, I’ll warn you that the rest of my post is probably going to be a bit much for you.
I have a massive chest freezer and buy a few whole animals a year from local farmers. I usually pick a specific animal based on weight. They’re killed/initially processed by a USDA certified slaughterhouse about an hour drive from my home. I butcher pigs and goats myself so that I can have control over the cuts of meat and keep/use *everything* but have a butcher handle it any time I get a share of a cow because it makes it easier to split with a few other families. I eat a fair bit of offal, render lard, make bone broth, and grind scraps/trimmings so that I’m not wasting anything. It’s incolved, but I can’t bring myself to buy meat from a grocery store for a variety of ethical reasons and the meat is legitimately 2x better than anything I’ve bought elsewhere.
For dairy, I agree that there’s almost no way to do it ethically. The cows might be pastured and happy, but the land/water required to support dairy agriculture has an environmental impact that I don’t want any part of and the constant cycles of pregnancy and culling of male calves seems unnecessary for me to be able to put half and half in my coffee.
I diverge from what your suggesting WRT eggs. Buy them from local farmers who are transparent about their practices and it’s no different for me than the meat issue.
Happy to answer any questions you have on how this works out/awesome chest freezers/etc.
Anon
AnonforPigs, thanks so much – this is really helpful and exactly what I was looking for (OP here). One other question- do you hunt at all? I have a few friends who hunt elk and venison and they fill the freezer for the whole year (or almost, anyway) and I do see something really appealing about being more closely connected to your meat and knowing exactly where it came from.
AnonForPigs
I don’t personally hunt because I am a terrible shot. I tried getting into going to a range/practicing more when I was younger, but at this stage, I’m still terrible and my eyesight isn’t getting any better.
I do have friends who hunt, and who sometimes give me cuts of venison in exchange for using my meat grinder or dehydrator. One thing that’s really important to me personally is not letting things go to waste. If I’m responsible for the death of an animal, I feel like I need to make sure I’m getting the most out of it than I can. Lending other people the tools to help them do the same is part of that.
Anonymous
What about goat and sheep dairy?
AnonForPigs
I knew I left something out. I do buy goat milk/cheese from a friend who raises dual-purpose (meat and dairy) goats, but I think that would be a hard thing to find generally. In terms of commercial (or even large scale, single farm) dairy, I would think the problems I personally have with cows would apply to other milk producers but I haven’t researched it enough to make an informed decision. I do *really* love goat cheese, though.
Anonymous
Thanks for your thoughts. I like the idea that goats especially can provide nutrition from landscapes otherwise ill suited to agriculture.
Plus one
I try to eat mostly vegan but haven’t gone 100% yet. I think the humane issues for eggs – even raised humanely and free range- is that fertilized eggs that are female go on to become egg- layers, but the male chicks are killed in inhumane ways. There are compoinvedtigating ways to differentiate male and female eggs long before hatching so that may be a thing in the future. Similarly for cows- females are raised to become future milk producers but males become veal (or worse fate) . They say if you don’t support veal don’t buy dairy…
Anon
To females bankers here, why do some people hate investment bankers? I’m a investment bank associate who has been in the industry for 5+ years and I keeping hearing people talking about the job being evil and exploiting other workers.
Cat
can we not?
Anon
I have worked in manufacturing for over a decade. I think there’s a general distrust of Wall Street for a reason. Wall Street views its role as allocating capital in the most efficient way possible. But there is a very real, human cost to doing this. Layoffs, cuts to R&D, re-structuring that causes chaos in people’s lives – exacerbating income inequality. I think that Wall Street is very good at short term gains at the expense of the long term view.
I’m not sure you will understand unless you watch it happen.
Anon
Reputation of a few imputed onto the whole – I’m sure you’ve met bad actors and bad people in your industry just as they exist in others. It’s the same way people say “I hate lawyers” but generally like perfectly fine all or most of the lawyers they meet. Not sure if you’re just new to your country or being purposefully obtuse here it’s not that hard a concept.
Anonymous
Lol what? You can’t be this stupid.
Inspired By Hermione
I have absolutely no input on this question, but I DO have input about saying/implying that another woman is “stupid.” If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything.
Anonymous
Nah. This is a stupid question and she should be told that.
Equestrian attorney
Calling people stupid is rude, but this also is a really weird question. I’m a corporate lawyer – not the most popular profession either – and I have a good idea why people generally don’t like us, even if I don’t agree with most of it. I mean, this never came up when telling people what you do? Do you only talk to other IBs?
Anon
You make rude, insensitive and unhelpful comments. I thought you should be told that.
Will address this
Investment bankers make money no matter what happens – if a company is taken to the stock market to go public, the bankers make money. If a company is bought or sold, the bankers make money. The actual workers or even shareholders might lose money and jobs and benefits, but the bankers will make money. So that is a reason people don’t like i-bankers.
The other 2 reasons are- no one really understands what i-bankers do. Most people think investment bankers are, like, bankers moving money around in accounts behind the scenes. Obviously, that’s not what i-bankers do – they are mostly pitch people who go around selling companies to investors, or spreadsheet forecasting folks. But no one knows that and frankly, no one cares.
Finally, I think it’s worth addressing here that many people think “bankers” are synonymous with “cabal of Jewish folk controlling The System” and well, a lot of people profess to be against that, even if they aren’t sure if that’s really true or not (hint: it’s not.). See also: Freemasons.
Idea
Let’s ask Quora: https://www.quora.com/Why-do-some-people-hate-investment-banking-Why-do-so-many-people-hate-investment-bankers
Anonymous
I have worked with a number of investment bankers over the years (CPA and was a partner in a Big 4 firm until a couple of years ago). My experience is that more often than not the IBs had only one goal — get the deal done. If an issue came up, it was someone else’s to solve and needed to be done yesterday. I felt that I could see the dollar signs in their eyes. The behavior, which was generally accompanied with a more than earned sense of arrogance, was very consistent in my experience. Don’t be like that.
Cervical polyp
Has anyone ever been found to have one? I’m having irregular bleeding and am going to my PCP (who also does routine gyn exams) tomorrow for a pelvic exam. If the cause is a cervical polyp, is that something that can be removed tomorrow or is it a separate appointment? Has anyone had one removed? Trying not to panic but I’m a little nervous! Thanks.
Anonymous
I had a uterine one. It was surgically removed. The bleeding didn’t stop (just became more irregular, but that may have more to do with being 47). Went back on BCPs and things are working OK (but I’m 7 pounds heavier, ugh).
Anonymous
Thanks!
Anon
Don’t panic. I currently have one. It depends on how big it is whether they can remove them same day or not. Imagine getting a skin tag removed by your dermatologist. If its really large, they might need a different appointment, because of the aftercare. Same with a polyp. You might need to go see a gyn specialist who has more experience if your PCP hasn’t done that before. If that is the case do not delay in making an appointment. Its taking me forever to get an appointment with a specialist gyno :/
Anonymous
Thank you!
Ann Perkins!
Belle at CapHillStyle had a great post about women “suiting up” to the level of their male counterparts (think male newscasters in suit and tie and ladies in sleeveless sheaths or cardigans). It made me curious. What’s your office dress code? What industry? And do you think there’s a disconnect between men and women in your office in the level of formality?
cat socks
I work in software development for a telecom company. My workplace is extremely casual – like jeans, hoodies and sneakers. Most everyone dresses the same.
Anon
Also very casual here. Nonprofit. I dress up when I need to (meetings, events) but I wear pretty much anything I want otherwise. My boss and I are both wearing jeans and sweaters today. I enjoy nice clothing though, so I don’t dress like a slob.
PolyD
My office dress code is “wear clothes. And shoes, but flip flops count.”
Anonymous
I do think it’s odd that women would wear a jersey dress at a meeting where men are wearing suits and ties. I don’t do it, because I want to convey that I’m on par with the men and taking the meeting equally seriously, but the other women I see wearing more casual looking dresses (usually more senior women) don’t seem to be conveying anything of the sort, so I don’t know.
Anonymous
*I’m in biglaw, btw
Anononon
I think it’s weird and totally agreed with Belle’s post. However, I do think a sleeved, more formal dress of suiting material can possibly be equivalent to a blazer. It’s just sleeveless/jersey/flowy/cardigan/etc. that is not.
cbackson
I’m a partner and I often wear dresses (not jersey – more structured dresses – but sometimes sleeveless) in meetings where the men present have jackets on. In general, I don’t see senior women in suits that often in my field. Suits tend to be worn more often by junior associates, TBH.
Rainbow Hair
cbackson, this is my experience too (not a partner, not biglaw). my little mental rules go something like, “suits are for interviews and court” and “eff you if I have to sit through this deposition i’m not wearing a gd pencil skirt.”
Cb
I’m in academia. Dress code and style definitely depends on field – within the social sciences, the anthropologists are the most eclectic, public policy people most formal as they’re giving evidence or have professional backgrounds. In political science, we range from jeans to business casual. There are a few very stylish academics but as a whole, it’s pretty boring. My female colleagues typically wear skirts or dresses, male colleagues wear chinos, cords or jeans with a shirt or jumper. I’m trying to think if I’ve seen a female colleague in a suit – I suspect dress + blazer is as formal as we get. The professional staff typically dresses better than the academic staff.
NOLA
Agreed (also in academia). The only women faculty I see wearing full-on suits are in the school of business or law (and even some law faculty are decidedly more casual). In the humanities and sciences, they are a lot more casual. Performing arts tends to dress up a bit more, with more flair, but visual arts is very casual. Our female administrators dress more formally, but it tends to be dress + blazer rather than full on suit. One wears pants suits, but not formally tailored ones, I think that’s just her preference.
Inspired By Hermione
Legal aid in Seattle. Business casual, leaning to casual.
Most of the guys in my office wear jeans or khakis and a button up shirt with casual oxfords or boots.
Most of the women wear jeans or colored jeans or khakis or skinny pants or very casual skirts/dresses with a business casual shirt or even a nicer tee with jewelry. Lots of waterfall/open cardigans, casual blazers, and open buttoned up shirts as toppers. Flats, booties/boots, and sneakers.
Not a huge disconnect. Some of our support staff dress on the far casual side of casual and that’s clearly different, but there are no male support staff.
Inspired By Hermione
I’m in mod, probably for using a t-oll’s word to describe what men in my office wear….
Anon
bahahaha
anon
In a year we’ll have to explain to new posters that they can’t talk about b u t t o n d o w n s h i r t s without going into mod…
Anonymous
Yes.
Guys swap in jeans and went with more formal top attire (incl. blazers and always a collared shirt) and they look so much better.
Women look sharp in dresses but so often I see just really bad clothes, like stuff I’d wear when I couldn’t wear pajamas or obvious athleisure.
PLUS, I’m in career growth mode, so I need my clothes to compete for me, not against me. And that, to me is a big deal. I’m typing from an officially casual office, but in a dress AND a jacket (granted, it is a knit material moto-style jacket, but a jacket nevertheless). Not only am I warm, I feel like I visually am as on-game as the men are.
Anon
I’m in higher ed, staff side. Dress code is pretty much “whatever you want.” My boss wears business casual and I did too when I first started, but I gradually slipped into more casual wear and now I wear casual biz casual some of the time and jeans some of the time. Today, I didn’t feel like putting any effort into getting dressed, so I’m wearing jeans, a hoodie and sneakers, which is about as casual as you can get without wearing athleisure/pajamas. No real disconnect between men and women.
Anon
This is an issue that always bothers me. Back when I was clerking (trial court), it used to drive me nuts that I could immediately tell who the male attorneys were, while the female attorneys were often indistinguishable from staff/clients/witnesses. I like that we have more flexibility (skirts in July sure are nice!), but I always wonder about how that plays out in professionalism.
For me, I’m in-house counsel, and I previously worked with all of the attorneys here in a law firm. The office I work at is very casual and mostly female. I usually wear a sort of elevated biz-cas (suiting separates), just like I did at the law firm. The other female attorney, who is superior to me but her role is not primarily an attorney, is probably a little more biz-cas (rarely wears blazers). The other attorneys are male, and they work at our corporate headquarters (there are reasons this makes sense, and I like my office a lot, but I won’t lie; this does bug me), and they usually wear suits, though I guess I would too if I worked at their office. So, I do think there’s a disconnect, but I guess you could say it plays out in complicated ways.
Nope
Please rethink this. Women do not have an obligation to visually convey their status to you. Female attorneys are not “indistinguishable from staff/clients/witnesses.” They have law degrees. That’s how they are distinguishable. They’re not required to wear their degrees around their necks. If you’re not sure, feel free to ask, “Hi, are you the attorney?” If they are not, they will tell you. Problem solved.
Anon
This is a weird response. Obviously, no one’s obligated to convey their role, but you can’t deny that it makes a difference in how people treat you. I’ve been asked if I am an attorney/paralegal/secretary, and it is sexist and extremely frustrating.
Yep
…but the men *are* conveying status to you with their suits. They’re not waiting for someone to ask if they have law degrees.
Anonymous
But the point is that if you wear a sweater, other people are just going to assume that you are the secretary or client and not the attorney. Maybe it shouldn’t be that way, but that’s how it is. I don’t know about you, but when I walk into a room I want everyone to know I am in charge, and if wearing a jacket makes that happen then I’m wearing a jacket. Then the men are more likely to listen to me as I crush the patriarchy through my actual work.
Is it Friday yet?
I’ve had people assume I’m the secretary while I was wearing a gosh-danged suit. I’ve heard the same from multiple other female attorneys. The point is really that people default to attorney or doctor or whatever for men, and support staff of whatever ilk for women – and they shouldn’t be making those automatic assumptions but thanks a lot patriarchy.
Never too many shoes...
I feel like I have said this a few times lately, but sometimes I love that we still wear robes to Court here. No confusion possible.
Eh
Yes, that’s the problem. They assume you’re the secretary because you’re a female, not because of your sweater. Then when called out for that they say it’s because of the sweater. But it’s not.
Anonymous
I am not a practicing attorney, and people assume I am one all the time because I wear a suit.
Irish Midori
I agree with this. I went to a docket sounding recently whether there was only one other female attorney. The men were all suited up conservatively (as was I). The other woman wore khakis and a puffer coat (which she wore the entire sounding). I do not think she did herself (or women lawyers in general) any favors about being taken seriously. Pillory me for this if you must.
sadie
Yeah the men all wear suits in my courthouse. Women in my office wear suits in court, it’s an office rule. But, female attorneys who are opposing counsel usually don’t. I see separates, I see sweaters instead of jackets, and I’ve seen jeans and yoga pants.
That said, I do think a certain amount of ingrained misogyny is involved in the whole mistaking-female-lawyers-for-staff thing. As I said, I am ALWAYS in a suit in court, and I’ve been mistaken for staff. I’ve also seen male criminal defendants mistaken for the lawyer just because they’re wearing a suit. So.
Cat
I liked that post too. That said, it has always annoyed me that “professional” = wearing a female version of what men wear. A friend was musing about this over c0cktails — what “professional” dress would be if women had been in the workforce first? ANYWAY, professionals in my business-casual office are usually dressed fairly similarly (my ankle pants and blouse/sweater to my male colleagues’ dress pants and button-down/polo; if it’s a Big Meeting day I’ll wear a sheath dress + non-matching blazer while the men typically put a navy blazer over their regular outfit.
Anonymous
+1
I think many more senior women have started to forge our own definition of business dress code that is not 1:1 with men.
Houda
My office (consulting in London) is meant to be smart business casual if no client interaction but all men wear suits (Jaeger, Tiger), white/pink shirts (Ralph Lauren, TM Lwein, etc.) brogues no tie. Few will wear a cheapish tie on the daily, no Hermes etc., a handful of guys can be slightly dressed down i.e. wearing a quarter zip on top of their shirt.
Women mostly wear shirts and pencil skirts or straight dresses, never a suit, all of them are junior or staff. They are considerably dressed down compared to the men. I am the second most senior but am currently very under-dressed with pants (Uniqlo), A-line skirts (Winser) and a blouse (Sezane) or solid color t-shirt (cotton story) as I have gained 15 pounds from some medicine and don’t want to spend money on new items. I am about to be staffed on a client facing project so will have to go back to sheath dresses (Winser and the Fold) and pencil skirts (Winser) which for my aesthetic are the only acceptable outfit on client site.
anne-on
Hi Houda! Going to be in London for work shortly – would you mind reminding me of your preferred sources for work clothing? Definitely fitting in a visit to the Fold!
Houda
Yes sure, here goes:
– Winser London – for tweed, travel friendly workwear
– The Fold London – amazing fabrics and attention to detail
– Caroline Charles – unexpected colors and tweeds for a more mature clientele
– Jaeger – great basics especially in coats
– The House of Bruar – countrywear, tweed pencil skirts, and velvet
– Joseph (Moroccan) – coats and cashmere goods
– Sezane – blouses, relatively affordable silk
anne-on
Thank you!! Excited to finally get to try some of these on in person!
anon
Houda, can I just say that I LOVE your sense of style?
Houda
Thank you, I got it from my dad. Dressed me in tweed since I was a kid… resented him massively for the best part of 20 years, then found myself going back to these looks in my thirties
Anonymous
Ohhhhh Winser is lovely
Anonymous
Winser really is lovely! Will they ship to USA?
givemyregards
I loooove Sezane’s clothes, but I always have the hardest time picking what to actually buy. Everything looks so dreamy on their site, but most of it doesn’t really fit into my work/casual wardrobes, so I feel like when I do splurge on their stuff I’m not necessarily making the most of it. I think I need to actually go to one of their physical stores the next time I’m in a city that has one.
CountC
In our business casual environment, I find that the women are more often than not dressed more professionally than the men. I see lots of t-shirts, jeans and sneakers on men in the departments that permit that, where women usually wear a Pixie-type pant and a blouse.
In the departments where jeans every day are not permitted, men wear slacks and a b u t t o n down or sweater, and the women wear the equivalent or lean towards more professional dress (dresses, skirts and blouses, etc.)
No one wears a suit here – legal department, execs or otherwise.
The original Scarlett
Same, except we are 100% casual/jeans every day. The women definitely dress better than the men on average. Even with jeans, the typical pairing is a blouse and polished shoe whereas the men do a lot more sneakers/vests and look less professional overall.
Anonymous
Ugh yes she did. Because she is always judging what other women wear. Meanwhile she’s barely employed and clearly waiting around for her (married?) boyfriend to propose.
anon
Can we not tear into each other for completely acceptable behavior? I really liked the way she framed the post. And even if you don’t, I think women owe it to each other to give each other space to have differing opinions.
Anon
I also liked her framing of the post, and have had similar feelings in the past.
I often attend legal events wherein almost every single man present is wearing a black, navy, or charcoal suit and a tie, and the women wear ankle pants and cardigans. (The older women wear suits.) It’s jarring, and when the men outnumber the women at least 3-1 anyway, I don’t think we are helping ourselves.
Anonymous
+1
I used to joke that I’d have to start lifting to have TV newsreader arms since they’d be very much on-display. Ugh.
Candidate
I have an enormous problem with the framing of the post! She’s clearly referring to Krysten Sinema, an ICON, and specifically a bisexual style icon, who is crushing it both sartorially and politically. I thought the tone was scolding, sexist, and walking the line of being anti-LGBT. Women in leadership positions don’t have to be a stuffed suit like all the boring old men in government, especially not interesting, dynamic, ground-breaking women whose clothes are clearly selected to make a statement and differentiate ourselves from the men. I don’t wear suits to my city council meetings for that reason! And, people notice and comment, usually complimentary, that I stand out as different because I am and because of the way I dress. People say I look more approachable and interesting, and I value that freedom of expression as a public official.
I think we’d all be better off if we could let our clothes send a message about who we are uniquely, rather than sending a message that we are just like everyone else.
I don’t need to wear a suit to be taken seriously, and having a bigger clothing vocabulary means I can say what I want sartorially on a specific day. That’s important to me.
Anon
I’m not sure how criticizing a senator for wearing thigh-high boots and a mini-dress is anti-LGBT. Just because she’s out as bi doesn’t mean nobody can ever criticize her attire ever. And Belle specifically said that she didn’t think the attire was too s*xy or that not being s*xy should be the standard for women’s dress, but that it raised questions about women vs men dress with respect to formality. I didn’t really read the post as criticizing Sinema. That was the question that started the post, but then she pivoted and started talking about the Montana Legislature, where she works. I am NOT a big fan of Belle (that whole NRA thing) but I really didn’t see this post as partisan or sexist.
Anon
You have got to be kidding me.
This has nothing to do with LGBT. This has everything to do with a longstanding issue of women looking less formal than men, which does not really help us to be taken seriously.
Anonymous
I thought that that outfit of Sinema’s was quite ill-fitting. Did she not look in a mirror? If you want to have a strong look, it can’t be too short / too tight. I saw it featured on gofugyourself or something similar to that.
All of Nancy Pelosi’s stuff fits her. And is occasion-appropriate. Newbie ought to take lessons.
Anon
There’s a photo of Sinema during a debate, wearing a burgundy dress with a really interesting collar. That looks fantastic and professional. In fact, I want to know where she got that dress.
But I’m still of the belief that women aren’t given a pass on dressing professionally when the occasion warrants it.
anon
Look, I fully believe that we shouldn’t be judged for how we look or dress, and that we shouldn’t need our clothes or other external things to convey status (e.g., the poster above who says she’s distinguishable by her law degree) If that’s truly the reality of your career and your live, then that’s wonderful and you’re much more fortunate than the rest of us. But the reality of the situation for most women (and all people, to a lesser extent) is that we are judged by what we wear, the status we convey, etc. In a world where we’re fighting to have more and better representation in all types and all levels of leadership (and I see myself as part of this fight) I am not going to do something that disadvantages me if I don’t have to.
That may not be the reality for all women, and hopefully one day it isn’t for anyone. But it is what it is, and I’m willing to work within that to get ahead and eventually change the system.
anon
Also, I totally dig the way Sinema is changing what seems to be considered normal for someone in her position. It’s just unwise to give the message to every young woman that she can 100% do that too in every circumstance and expect it to never limit her career.
Anon
Wait he’s married!?! Or is this just wild speculation?
Anonymous
Wild speculation! But something is clearly up
AnotherAnon
Eh, I’ve lived apart from my SO for a summer or short-term time. They got a dog together!
Amelia Earhart
I’m really unclear about why her job or her relationship status matters here? This seems like an unnecessary point of attack.
Pretty Primadonna
Your last sentence! *shocked*
Anon
Business casual environment – engineering firm. The men are supposed to wear collars or (that dreaded word) with slacks.
I try to look as professional as the men do. We have more flexibility, but I personally do not use that flexibility to dress down.
Anonymous
Academia in the limbo between faculty and staff (library). I dress a notch down from my boss, who typically wears a tie and a blazer, but not a full suit. I wear a lot of skinny pants, structured a-line skirts, and cardigans or non-matching blazers. This makes me more formal than staff and less formal than administrators, which is about where my job ranks so it my mind, it fits. Faculty are all over the place so I don’t really include them in my calculation.
Men at my level typically wear khaki/black/navy pants and a polo or other collared shirt. When I wear a blazer I’m slightly more dressed up than my male colleagues, but not so much that I look out of touch.
Anon
I don’t disagree with the post, but I thought some of her comments were silly. Telling a commenter that worked in tech that the equivalent of jeans/khakis and a polo is a ponte dress? That seems way more formal, and having worked in tech, your (mostly male) coworkers will think you’re SUPER dressed up if you wear a nice dress like that. Nothing wrong with looking super dressed up if that’s what you want, but the formality equivalent of jeans/khakis and a polo shirt is…jeans/khakis and a blouse.
Inspired By Hermione
I’m offsite two days a week and wore a dress a few weeks ago at a social service agency where men wear jeans, khakis and polos/sweaters. I was not in a sheath dress or ponte. I was not in a business casual dress. I was in a very casual Uniqlo faux-wrap dress. I was wearing Puma sneaker-flats with it.
I got asked three times why I was so dressed up. A ponte dress would have made their head explode.
Anonymous
I know some people who see a dress and automatically think “dressed up” regardless of what type of dress it is. I can wear a jersey t-shirt dress with sneakers and no makeup or jewelry and they’ll ask why I am so dressed up. If I wear dress pants and a blouse with hair and makeup done and nice jewelry, they won’t comment on anything different. I wonder if you’re running into something similar?
Inspired By Hermione
Totally. I think it’s also just substantially out of the norm. I can’t think of a time any of the social workers at the program have worn a dress. Maybe a t-shirt dress once with sneakers?
Anon
Yeah I think it’s really common in tech for people to equate any kind of dress with formal wear. A friend is an engineer and when she’d wear a sundress and flip-flops, the guys she would work with would ask her why she was so dressed up.
Irish Midori
I get that too. I wear a dress at work and literally do nothing else (no makeup, jewelry, heels, etc.) and I get comments about being dressed up. And I normally wear a conservative pant suit with full makeup.
Anon
I agreed with most but not all of her post. I absolutely think about what I’m wearing for important meetings and I agree it looks silly when men are all in suits and there’s a woman in a twin set. That said, in my job (biglaw), our office is pretty casual day to day. Most men don’t wear suits unless they have meetings so I similarly dress causally unless I have a meeting. Outside of big meetings, I don’t think it really matters all that much. Especially if you’re mostly communicating by phone/email and working long hours, might as well be comfortable.
Anon
I honestly think this is more so because women’s clothing is more subtle in terms of the level of how dressy you are. For men, there are pretty set tiers; khakis v. suit pants, jacket v. no jacket, tie v. no tie. It’s so much more complex for women (heels? blazer v. other jacket or sweater? nylons? length of skirt? pantsuit v. skirt suit?), and I think this is where the disconnect comes in. The bands for being professional/dressy enough for men are broader and easier to spot while hitting the “sweet spot” takes a bit more finesse for women. You could still be in the same band of professional dress, but the guy will look more dressy because his clothing uniform isn’t as flexible.
Anon
I’m in politics, where the default for men is still absolutely a suit, in part I think because it’s so easy. I haven’t worn a suit in almost two years and kinda don’t plan on doing so maybe ever again? The equivalent to a man’s suit for women in politics is a blazer plus whatever bottom, not a traditional woman’s suit. You signal the formality of the occasion with accessories and fabrics – not by wearing a matching top and bottom. (I would argue that the brightly colored pantsuit beloved by many female politicians is not a “suit” in the business meaning of the word.)
Anonymous
I agree re. brightly colored suits—they are church or country club attire, not business attire. Men do not wear bright red pants as business formal, so why do female politicians wear bright red suits? I also thought it odd that Belle suggested shopping for Southern church-lady suits for work.
Anonymous
To me formality mostly comes down to structure. When the men are in full suits and ties, I will wear a sheath dress with sleeves or a sheath dress plus blazer. A cardigan is not as structured as a suit jacket, which makes it less formal. The same goes for wrap dresses and ponte dresses.
On the other hand, I refuse to emulate the men by wearing an actual suit. I am on the small side and a suit with a big collar and a separate top underneath is just overwhelming and makes me look as if I am playing dress-up. For super formal occasions, I prefer a sheath dress with a collarless blazer in the same fabric.
Anonymous
Yes. This is a pet peeve. Just yesterday, I saw photos of a legislative event. All the men were in suits. The women were in separates, which look less formal. I think it makes people take us less seriously. You don’t have to wear a suit. There are sleeved structured, heavier weight, well tailored dresses with lining that I’d consider to be equivalent. But if men are in suit and tie, I’m going to be in a pant or skirt suit. I’m not going to wear a random combo of separates because I want to be taken seriously at a serious event, and I want to have my clothing reflect that.
Anon
The suits only look more put together because you are setting men as the default gender when it comes to what to wear when it comes to certain corporate or political arenas. I very much think you should rethink why this is, probably an unconscious bias that needs to be checked. Suiting separates are just as much formal as suiting menswear – they are literally the same weight and structure (and women’s clothing well tailored at that level is usually more structured). Why does a man’s black suit not have the same equivalence of a woman’s sedate dress with coordinating blazer? Nothing but your “men are the default standard” position. I admire women in their suiting separates – provided they are actually wearing material suitable to the event (jersey dresses don’t fit in Congress). They are setting a standard for women’s wear where there previously was not one because there weren’t women to set the standard.
Anon
Eh I disagree. Men’s suits come in other colors and definitely non-black/navy conveys a more casual look. I would think a man wearing a light grey suit would also look out of place if everyone else was wearing black/navy. It’s not unprofessional it just converys less formality
I mostly wear separates because they tend to be more flattering on me but black or navy suits are still the gold standard for both men and women when it comes to truly formal occassions.
Anonymous
This is an interesting comment (in a good way, not interesting like that top above is ugly). I still stand by my initial thought that a matching suit is more professional than separates because a suit (blazer + pants/skirt in same color) blends in. I like the perspective that for a formal occasion, I want to stand out for my ideas, not my attire. Do we remember men’s business suits, or their ideas, speech, body language, and other attributes? Their attire fades away. I read about a man who wore the same suit every day for a year, and no one noticed.
Separates stand out. I’ll give an example. Recently I saw photos of a colleague at an event. The men were all wearing dark suits. She wore separates: red open front blazer, white button down, black and white tweed skirt. To me, she did not look as formal because that’s how I’d dress daily in my business casual firm. The outfit was lovely and looked great on her, but the different colors and textures, plus the open blazer, did not signify business formal.
anon
I don’t think people notice certain things about men’s dress (e.g., whether he’s worn the same thing over and over again) but people definitely notice general things around a man not being well dressed. Trump’s ill-fitting jackets, for example. I’ve worked with basically all men my entire career by virtue of my field, and men definitely notice each others’ dress in much the same way happens for women. I think their clothing tends to be less recognizable (e.g., all dark colors or whatever) but in the instances where it isn’t, it’s memorable and commented on more than I observe for women.
I agree that men have generally set the standard of dress for women. That’s a good point.
anon
Men wearing the same suit every day doesn’t stick out because it’s the default for men, not because suits are so benign they fade away and we focus on their ideas. If a woman wore the same suit every day for a year she’d be noticed, because women are expected to change up their outfits. (Which irritates me.)
Anonymous
Hmm… Belle’s post is coming from the woman that used to suggest black halo body-con dresses and 3+ inch d-orsay pumps constantly a few years ago. I say she’s just going through a normal mid-30s sobering up about the state of women’s “equality” and the truth about work and fashion. Happens to most women as they move from their 20s to their 30s.
Anon
Can we not with the personal attacks on Belle? There’s plenty of substantive points to debate about her post without attacking her personally
Anon
Belle, is that you? You must be so busy commenting here. I can’t believe how many comments there are defending this woman from completely innocuous comments like the one above.
Calling CPAs
A family member is struggling to pass the CPA exam, and I’ve been asked for advice since I’m the only other person in the family who had to take a licensing exam. But from what I’m hearing, the CPA exam makes the bar look like a breeze and I’m not sure what would be helpful for the family member. She is really smart, but has always struggled with tests. Any advice would be appreciated.
She passed 3 of the 4 tests (normally on the second time taking the exam), but is really struggling with the last test (failed it 3 times). And now one of the earlier tests has expired, so she is back to having two tests that she has to pass and only has a few months before another test will expire. I know that she has been using the Becker test prep software, but I feel like it is time to try something new since it hasn’t been working. Is there any other good test prep companies to check out? I think a classroom experience would be really good for her. Does anyone still offer that?
So far, I’ve suggested trying to get weeks completely off work so that she can focus on preparing instead of trying to do it when also working. Any other ideas?
Anon
When studying for the LSAT I thought steady everyday study for an hour was better than days of long study. If you take a few weeks off work to only focus on studying, your brain doesn’t have the time to recharge and reconfigure the knowledge you’ve learned in your brain. Turtle wins the race strategy. That being said, there is nothing like face to face tutoring to pinpoint where she is going wrong. Do your research though to pick a good one.
Left field option: Does she have an anxiety disorder that she could use to apply for an accommodation? She maybe able to get extra time, or even toll the expiration of her previous tests.
Anon
I agree with the turtle wins the race strategy for studying, but do think some time off work may be useful for her. She needs to take breaks from studying for sure, and probably not spend 10 hours a day studying, but there is value in having brain “down time.” If she’s working full time and studying, her brain is probably really really tired. I am 12 years out of law school and studied intensively for an exam last year–I was surprised how much I had to push off hard (job) work on the days I needed to study. I concentrated my study time on the weekends and one evening a week (for fourish months), which was sufficient for me. If she needs more time than that (I am not at all familiar with the CPA exams), she probably does need at least some time off work. A reduced schedule might give her the boost she needs.
Anon3
Becker likely still offers the classroom option, where an instructor goes over the software/books and might have tips they’ve picked up over the years. There also might be a local university that has a CPA review course. Your family member can choose which section(s) to review in those courses. Studying and working is really tough but it is possible for some. I took off 6 months to finish my CPA exams because I knew it wasn’t working for me to study and work at a Big 4 at the same time. Finding someone else taking it to have a study buddy in her area might also be helpful (depending on the skills of the study buddy).
Anon CPA
Becker is really the gold standard – I did the at home option, but they do offer live classes. Practice exams helped me, which I’m sure she’s already doing. Taking a few days off leading up to the exam could be helpful, but not if she’s psyching herself out and cramming. Agree with PP that it’s slow and steady review that will help the most. Best of luck to her! I’m so glad that it’s behind me.
Katy
I’m a CPA and used Becker for the exam after being out of college for several years and barely working in the field. It requires dedication – I picked the self-study because I wanted to be able to watch/hear the lessons as many times as I wanted. At the time, in-class Becker Review was crammed into the weekends – I didn’t think I would be able to concentrate that long. What worked for me was taking one exam in a window, planning out what I needed to cover every day, sticking to it as far as possible and practicing questions from other review courses as well. Two days a week, my local library had late hours so I parked myself there with a large coffee till it closed.At work, I spent lunch revising the previous night’s lesson and also did questions throughout the day when I had down-time or was performing a low-concentration type task.
Anon
I’m an actuary so tests were my life for ten years. (A series of 10 tests, with each test having a passing probability of 30-40%.)
The only way to pass a test is to get into the “zone” where nothing matters as much as the test. No socializing. No travel. Outsource as much as possible. I used to say that if my house was clean, I wasn’t in the zone.
You can set up all kinds of study schedules and timetables but the only way to really get there is when that exam is more important to you than anything else you might procrastinate on. And that has to come from within, not from a well meaning cousin passing on advice.
Anon
I agree with this, but do think advice from others could be helpful. Even if it’s just permission (or an expectation?) that the rest of life gets the short stick for a while, I could see that helping.
CPA Lady
I used a combo of Becker and the cliff notes from another 71. I studied three hours per day. I would get up early and study for one hour and then I would study for two hours after work. Every single day for about 10 months. I would give myself a couple days off after I took each section, but that was it. The weekend before I had to take a test I would hole up in the library for about 8 hours each day and made huge overview study guides. It ruled my life and it freaking bl e w. I had failed two sections before getting Becker. I passed all the sections on the first try in about 10 months once I started with Becker.
There were differing types of becker– I did one that was in between self study and in person classes. There was some kind of online component with deadlines for certain sections to keep you on track, and you had to take each section in a specific window. I needed that additional level of structure. I was working part time as a bookkeeper when I was studying. There is no way I could have worked public accounting hours and studied three hours a day.
Eertmeert
I passed using Roger CPA Exam Review, and recommend it, especially if she’s used Becker and hit a wall.
When i borrowed my friends’ Becker books, i saw some material that was “supplemental” in becker was integrated into Roger’s material, and i did get questioned on it on my exams.
The best advice i can give is to cover the material, and then do hundreds of test questions. Check the answers as you go, read the answer key, review why you got it wrong, mark off the ones you got wrong. Get through 100 questions, go back and only redo the marked off questions. If you get it wrong again, it gets a second mark. Now you know what areas you need to focus on.
I used paper books of test questions here, which allowed me to flip back and forth and make notations.
It’s a slog, for sure. But doable!
Anonymous
I passed the CPA exams last year used Gleim instead of Becker since I was paying for it myself. The gleim material is extremely detailed and comprehensive so it might be an information overload depending on your study style. I was a few years out of school so I took the midset I was learning from scratch and would need to put in the time with the more detailed material. I wouldn’t say the material on any of the CPA exams is extremely difficult but the exams cover a lot of information you wouldn’t necessarily know and can be extremely time consuming to get through. I gave up a lot of stuff while studying but I thought the extra time I used to study to make sure I passed was better than failing and have to study all over again.
Keeks
So this was me. I hated Becker because I’m smart, but have ADHD, and sitting down and self-pacing was not a realistic option. What ultimately worked best for me was getting a private tutor ( Darius at cpaexamtutoring at gmail dot com, not cheap) and using Super Fast CPAs mobile review. I quizzed multiple choice questions ALL THE TIME. In line at Starbucks? Questions. In transit? Questions. Watching TV at home? Questions. I didn’t really do simulations (the long-form answer parts) while studying because they’re boring and I knew that I was good enough at the practical application of the guidance to pass them. I ended up passing REG (my weak spot, likely hers as well) with a phenomenal grade.
Falstaff
Perhaps a shopping blog isn’t the best place for this question, but is anybody here making an effort to cut down or stop buying new clothes for environmental/social/budget/minimalism reasons? Any tips on making it work, especially as a cusp size, when it seems like secondhand clothing options are pretty limited? With the change of the season, I’m feeling the itch to refresh my wardrobe with something new, and it’s tough to resist the urge!
Cb
I don’t have the time or patience for thrifting but just maintain a small wardrobe of things that I wear until they are worn out. I then take them to the charity shop if they still have a bit of life left in them or textile recycling if they are damaged. I figure limiting my consumption is the best way to reduce my impact. I focus on having just enough in my wardrobe rather than having excess, ie I have one laundry cycle worth of workout clothes, one of weekend wear.
Anon
Not quite the same, but I have a one in, one out rule (for everything I buy, I have to donate something similar) which has cut way down on my buying. I now pretty much only replace things that are truly worn out or so horribly out of style that I can’t wear them anymore and I don’t buy new things “just because.”
Anon
I like this approach. I want to cut down on buying things both for environmental and social reasons, but truly for budget reasons. It’s the buying new things “just because” that really does me in.
Anonymous
No.
My body refuses to stop changing size/shape and I have a job that I need to dress professionally for. So that means clothes that fit and aren’t straining.
I donate what I don’t wear and likely won’t re-wear. My daughter is 2 inches shorter than me and still growing, so I can often hand down casual clothes I’ve outgrown to her. Even if my size were static, I wear stuff out, ruin stuff, and have a lot of B- items I’d gladly get rid of if I could find an amazing replacement for.
Anonymous
Same.
Anon
Same here. I’d love to stop buying clothes but it doesn’t seem to be in the cards for me. When you need to dress professionally, it’s especially hard since tailored clothing does not lend itself to weight fluctuations.
Abby
I am! My ideal goal is to not buy any clothing, jewelry, or shoes for 2019, but may need to buy spring & summer workwear. I unsubscribed from all shopping emails, which helped a lot. I also started tracking my outfits because even though I can sometimes feel like I need more clothes, it shows me that I actually only wear my favorite skirt to work twice a month or so. I store off season clothes in the basement, so I’m excited to switch our my winter clothes for summer, and I think that’ll help me with wanting new clothes.
anon
Yes. I’m cutting back for financial/minimalism/environmental/anti-consumerism reasons. For me, knocking off online shopping/aimless browsing has been the biggest help. I hate going to clothing stores and almost never do. If you’re constantly looking at pretty things, it’s easy to want to buy them, which leads to unintentional purchases. I would buy something because it was beautiful (that blue silk paisley blouse from a few days ago here almost got me, but it was $300). I love patterns, colors, textures. But I remind myself that I don’t have to buy something just because it is pretty. There’s always going to be pretty clothes. I also got tired of the purchase, try on, return (or miss the return window and lose the money…), cycle I was on. I check myself and remind myself that what I get online often doesn’t fit, or it looks okay but not amazing, and I probably wouldn’t have bought it if I picked it up in the store. This works for shoes, too. I deserve (and can now afford) clothes and shoes that REALLY fit and look AWESOME, not just okay. It took all that to break the habit, but now that the habit is broken, I don’t browse.
I am in need of a non-workwear refresh, for sure. My plan is to go into an actual store.
anon in brooklyn
I find that the shopping urge is strongest in anticipation of the change of season. Right now, I want to buy all the dresses and sleeveless tops, but it’s not going to be warm enough to wear any of that for weeks. And I really have plenty of spring and summer clothing anyway. I think wanting new clothes is really just wanting it to be warm enough to wear them. So I’m just trying to force myself to wait and consider what new spring/summer clothes I need when the season is actually here.
Anonymous
Same for me. Every year I remind myself the urge will be satisfied once I can unpack all my warm clothes from last year!
Idea
When I decide I want/need something, I look at online secondhand stores first.
It takes awhile, it might not be exactly what you want, but this is me for tops & most jewelry, handbag, scarves.
I still buy new pants & shoes
Anon
I did a huge wardrobe upgrade a few years ago. In the last year or so, I have cut back on my shopping a lot, because it’s important to me to be happy with the results of the effort, rather than always aiming for “better.”
Curly
Ugh, yes. I’m trying to cut down on shopping, especially online shopping. I’m near the end of a one-month shopping ban, and that has honestly helped. I allow myself to eat out, buy whatever food I want, and do experiences (like a play or whatever), but no actual merch. I initially said I could buy toiletries or make up if I needed it, but I’ve got such a stock built up that I’m definitely not going to run out of anything. I think it’s helping me reset my mind a bit so I can be a big more conscious in my consumption rather than just buying new clothes because the seasons are changing.
KonMari Addict
Yes! I have a strict annual budget and divide it into quarterly segments. I keep a list of everything I buy and what I paid. At the beginning of each season, I go through and get rid of (donate or recycle) anything that is worn out or that I am no longer excited about, and buy a few things for the following season. If there’s something I particularly want for next year, I make a note further down on my list so I don’t forget to budget for it (things like snow boots). When shopping, I focus on whether or not I really love something. If I’m not super excited about something when I first try it on, back it goes. I then tend wear my new things a ton. I don’t have a huge wardrobe – I consider my 5 pairs of jeans excessive but I love them all. I have a total of about 10 sweaters of different weights – for both work and casual. This is hugely helped by the fact that my size has been the same since High School (except during pregnancy and for about 7 months postpartum).
KonMari Addict
Oh and I rarely shop online unless I’m buying something specific where I already know what I want – like replacement converse or underwear. I don’t subscribe to any shopping emails and don’t follow any shopping blogs other than this one, or fashion bloggers on Instagram. When I did that, I constantly wanted new things! I pay attention to what people are wearing on the street and how it looks – I work is a pretty fashionable area – and that’s my inspiration. When I want new things, I spend a few hours shopping in physical stores and usually find things I like.
H13
I limit purchases for all of those reasons. I think I maybe bought two new things in addition to some consignment in 2018 and nothing so far in 2019. By far the easiest, best thing to do is unsubscribe from shopping and sale emails.
I would echo a lot of what other people said and add the following two suggestions. 1) I have a pinterest board where I can add things that I like/want and it usually serves the itch to actually buy something. It serves the added bonus that when I truly do need something new, I have a source for a quality staple and further limits mindless browsing. 2) I will sometimes take it a step further and use a spreadsheet to keep track of needs vs. wants. It helps me hit pause but also acknowledge that there are times when I truly need something. I list the item, if it is a need or want, a price, and a link if there is one (I love spreadsheets). Sometimes I just really want something and if I still want it in a month or two months or whatever, cool. I’ll buy it. It also makes a great resource when people ask me what I want for a birthday/holiday present (I’m hard to buy for).
Anon
I definitely am!!! Because of the rise of fast fashion, we have an overabundance of cheap clothing options. A lot of clothes donated still just end up in landfills. Decreasing consumption is much better for your wallet and the environment!
As much as I try to stick to consignment, some things you just can’t find pre-loved. When I buy something new, I have a $100 rule; if it costs less than $100, I don’t buy it. I also check out tags for fabric composition and try to buy non-synthetics (polyester doesn’t decompose well, and I find it uncomfortable). I have a bad habit of buying things because they are cheap without thinking through if I really love it. For me, the $100 threshold makes me stop and think about a purchase. It’s been a super great guideline for me– I don’t have the same cheap filler clothes in my closet and have saved money overall on impulse buys. Only buying clothes you love and taking good care of them makes such a difference.
Anon
I really want to emphasize your third sentence. Recycling, whether by donating clothes or recycling your plastic, really isn’t good enough. Reduce is the first of the three R’s for a reason. I think we’ve (and I do include myself in this) have tricked ourselves into this kind of complacency because we figure recycling is good enough. This is a habit I’m really trying to change in my own consumption.
Anon
Thinking about things in my wardrobe that I love and wear often, the $100 rule definitely applies. Like my cashmere sweaters that I wear almost every day, versus cheap fast fashion tops that I might wear once in a while. Very smart rule.
givemyregards
I have thought about implementing a similar rule, and your post might be the motivation I need to try it. Are there any areas where you make exceptions? Thinking workout clothes, etc.
Anon (above poster)
I don’t use the $100 rule for things like workout clothes, but I still opt for more expensive/high-quality clothing to avoid being tempted to have a ton of excess stuff. For my lifestyle, I find that I only really need 3-4 full workout outfits; that about matches up with how many times a week I work out, and I don’t like to repeat between washes to avoid odor. With that in mind, I splurge a bit on those 3-4 outfits. When I buy something nice, like from Lululemon, I’m way more likely to be excited to wear it and keep wearing it until it dies, versus cheap stuff that ends up living at the bottom of my dresser until I’m truly desperate for clean clothes. Everyone is different when it comes to workout habits, so you may view this differently.
The only things I don’t use a price rule on is underwear and pajamas. I’ve been wearing the same no-shows from VS for years, and am happy to get a deal on those when the sales come around!
Anon
I am plus sized and I don’t thrift. It is too hard to find anything of good quality, and I’m terrified of bringing moths and the thrift store smell into my home.
I do buy things on eBay though. I tend to buy from sellers I have used before, and I’m very fussy about quality. I only buy certain brand names (a lot of Eileen Fisher because I like natural fibers) and I only buy new, new without tags, or very gently used, and on the used side, only if the description and pics are very convincing. Like, worn once.
The real trick is to buy less, as I’m sure you know. So hold out for what you really love, don’t go for trends, and try to build your wardrobe around limited colors so that things go together.
Anon
Yes. Instead of transitioning to buying things from thrift stores, I just stop buying things unless it’s an absolute necessity. I don’t follow trends, I wear the same stuff a lot, I have one professional purse, and no one would call me a fashionista, but it’s better for the environment, my budget, my headspace, and my interests. Since I don’t care about clothes beyond their basic function, it’s not worth it to me to spend more time than I must clothing myself adequately for the weather or for my activities. I do think that far too little attention is paid to the “reduce” part of “reuse, reduce, recycle.”
givemyregards
Kind of…I really want to shop less for ethical/financial reasons, but when I tried to really scale back, it had the side effect of making me really overthink what I should buy (because I do occasionally need to replace worn out work items, etc. etc.) and then feeling guilty or being dissatisfied with what I did purchase. And then if I fell off the wagon, I would go on a bender and buy a ton of stuff after not shopping for months. So I’m trying to go a little easier on myself – I still buy more new clothes than I would ultimately like to, but I’m buying less than when I was being overly restrictive then binge shopping.
Pretty Primadonna
I put myself on a 3-month shopping ban starting in February for financial reasons. I made it 1 month without buying an article of clothing. In the meantime, with the help of my husband, I cleaned out my closet of things I no longer wore, dated items, and clothes that no longer fit. Seeing what was left (still a lot! Ugh!) I realized that I really, really like my clothes. This helped me get comfortable wearing the same outfits over again instead of buying new things for occasions that come up, as I would do in the past.
Also, one of the big things that got me into trouble was shopping for the life I would like to live rather than the one I actually live. So, I stopped buying clothes just to buy them. If I see something I like but do not have a reason or occasion to wear it, I do not purchase it. This has made a world of difference.
Anon
I make an effort to buy secondhand, but it’s not all environmentally motivated. I’m also prone to loving things that get discontinued, so I need to hunt for the leftovers across the thrifting sites.
Irish Midori
I have given up all clothing and accessory purchases for Lent. I am hopeful that after Lent I will have realized how little I actually need and will not return to prior buying levels. Also, I just Konmari’d my closet and found some old treasures I’d forgotten about, and realized how much excess I already had. That has made the Lenten resolution much easier.
Anonymous
Lately I’ve been waking up with some stiffness in one or two fingers. It feels like I jammed a knuckle, but there was no injury. It’s not always in the same fingers. The feeling persists throughout the morning and usually goes away by mid-afternoon. Is this the beginning of arthritis? Is there anything I can do to stop the progression? I’m 35 and have a family history of arthritis.
anon a mouse
Are you drinking enough water? When I wake up with stiff hands it’s almost always because I am dehydrated.
Anonymous
This sounds like what I called carpal tunnel when I was pregnant. (Only had it while pregnant).
Delta Dawn
I too am in my 30s with a family history of arthritis– I just went through this and can tell you what I did. The most important question is whether the pain is in your knuckle, or in your finger. Does the joint itself hurt? Or does the finger hurt in between the joints (like your proximal phalanges, in between your hand and your lowest knuckle)? Pain IN the joint could be arthritis; pain radiating FROM the joint but actually in your finger is probably not arthritis.
I called an arthritis doctor and was told I needed a referral, so I went to my GP and had a blood test. The blood test indicated I did not have arthritis. My hands still hurt and I was still skittish about my family history (apparently you need to treat arthritis early to avoid longer term damage), so I talked my way into the arthritis specialist anyway, and she examined the location of the pain to determine that it is not IN the joint and is therefore not arthritis. In my case, which of course may be different than yours, she said daily use of my hands probably has led to tendonitis (not a big deal, treat with OTC pain reliever). Good luck!
Amanda Whiteside
It sounds like it bothers you daily. I typically think that if something bothers me for more than a week or two, and ice/heat doesn’t resolve it in less than another 1-2 weeks, it is time to go to the doctor and have someone look at it.
Anon
Hi, I have arthritis and you just described my hands.
Try NSAIDs and eating a low-inflammation diet.
First Year Anon
are you sleeping awkwardly on your hand? I do that sometimes..but it could be the first signs of arthritis unfortunately.
Anonymous
Has anyone tried Beauty by Design? Thoughts? I want to up my skincare game, currently I cleanse and wear SPF sunscreen, but I am also very lazy.
Veronica Mars
In ‘rette fashion, I have applied for a job 2 pay grades above mine at my current company (but on another, related team that we got via acquisition). Technically it’s only 1 pay grade above me because I’ve been waiting to be promoted for the past three months in my current position (and my management has told me verbally I will be promoted next round). Here’s the question–do I tell my manager? She’s been generally supportive of my career growth and I think it could help my application if she put a good word in with the hiring manager (she’s about to be promoted to the boss of our team AND, ultimately, their team once they’re fully integrated). This would be a really good fit for me to move to this other team and I think she’d agree. Maybe not this 2 grade up position, but in general. (I would argue that given my connections with my team and our key stakeholders, I would bring a lot to the table since they’re so new to how things work at our company) Thoughts? Any pros/cons I’m not aware of?
Anon
In most companies, the hiring manager would ask your boss about you. As opposed to external applications, it just is not considered confidential. So, I would be inclined to tell her so that she hears it from you instead of someone else
Anon
+1. It’s not confidential if it’s internal. They’ll ask.
Veronica Mars
OK excellent, thank you. I’ll send her a note. It says that they’re not supposed to contact your manager unless you’re a finalist, but that may not actually happen in practice.
CountC
Where I work, you are required to tell your manager before you interview for an internal position, but not at time of application. It depends on the relationship you have with your manager if you want to tell her at application submission. I would tell mine because she is extremely supportive and we have discussed my career movement with her and she knows my goals.
Houda
No advice but good luck! I’m rooting for you :)
The original Scarlett
Yes, I’ve always considered it a huge red flag when an internal candidate hasn’t told their manager. Also, yours might turn into an advocate for you, I certainly would for one of my reports in the same situation.
anon
Good luck.
In our company, the manager knows about staff applying for other internal jobs. And your manager can be your biggest supporter. Personally, I would have this conversation in person – rather than sending an e-mail (you can send an e-mail to set up time to chat).
Additionally, there is often an informal network process into the hiring manager. So if someone wants a particular position, they reach out to their colleagues who have a trusted relationship with that hiring manager. And these colleagues know from working with you how good you are, they talk up the candidate to the hiring manager. Not sure how your organization works, but don’t neglect this informal system. Between two equal internal candidates, the hiring manager will always choose the one that her trusted colleagues vouch for.
Go get your ducks lined up and then knock it out of the park.
Veronica Mars
Great advice. I sent her a note because she’s OOO and mentioned that I’d like us to chat in person about it. Just in case the hiring manager gets to her before we can meet. I know that she will be supportive and set me up for success with this team, or in another role. I’m also not worried about this particular job opening. Openings come up and then are pulled all the time in my company. It’ll moreso be if this other team wants me, and if so, waiting until the net round of openings are approved and slotting me in.
Anon
I started a new job this winter that is more senior to me,and I needed to adjust my wordrobe accordingly. I followed the 3 pieces makes an outfit rule and love the work uniform I built of pants/skirt + blouse + topper of a blazer, sweater jacket or vest. How to ladies on the east coast do the 3 piece rule in the summer? I will DIE wearing a blazer in DC humidity walking to and from metro, but I love feeling out together like this. Hewlp!
anne-on
I always just carry my blazer/jacket over my arm and hang it up on the metro if possible in the summer. I also swapped to almost entirely shells and skirts in the summer. Shell + skirt + commuting shoes (and bare legs) with jacket over your arm was how my entire office basically did business formal in NYC summers. We also had a hose required dress code at the time, those were always put on after you got into work to avoid melting!
I personally love and wear silk scarves, and wear them often. I think they’re much more comfortable and professional looking than long/dangling necklaces but YMMV.
Anon
“Shell + skirt + commuting shoes (and bare legs) with jacket over your arm” Yup.
Also, cotton and linen (and seersucker, if it’s your style) are your friends. I know some posters here very strongly dislike the wrinkles that come with natural fabrics, but yeah, my job requires me to be all over town in the heat, and I’d rather be cool and seasonally wrinkled than drenched with sweat in other fabrics. (I can see how you’d feel differently if you were sitting indoors at an air conditioned desk all day, but when you have to call on clients at their offices…)
I often wear a dressy-ish scoop neck cotton t-shirt under my blazers – breathes better than poly that many shells are made of and I feel appropriate taking off my blazer to cool down since there are no spaghetti strap/bra strap worries.
Falstaff
I leave a lot of my blazers at the office in the summer. That way I can commute in my skirt and short sleeve blouse. Otherwise, I carry the blazer on the Metro, although sometimes the a/c on the Metro is freezing, and I actually want the extra layer on the train. Another option is to make a lightweight scarf the third piece, if your office is warm enough to go without a topper on your blouse.
Diana Barry
YMMV but when it is hot in the summer, I would change at work. Put your sheath dress and new undies in your bag, hold blazer in your hand, and wear shorts/tank on the way to work, then change when you get there. I did this when walking to work in BOS (not as hot as DC but the subway is SUPER HOT) in the summer.
Anonymous
In NYC but I often hang my blazer/sweater over the top of my tote bag, between the handles, to carry it on my commute in the summer (the non-freezing portions of the commute – subway cars can be cold).
Anon
Don’t wear it during the commute!
I’m on Team Change at Work, but at the very least you just wear as little as possible while you’re actually outside.
Anon
What do you do when see panhandlers? Living in NYC, I pass by at least one a day. I carry about a dollar change with me every week and usually ends up giving it away. I tend to give to those who try to do something that demonstrate an eagerness to work, ie. sell snacks or napkins on the subway, or perform a music that I enjoy, or hold the door open or hold my taxi door open, or those that seem truly old and disabled. A few months ago, I started passing by a young white woman who seemed new and asked for money in a rather demanding way. So I decided to ignore her. Recently, I was startled in the middle of the night by a woman screaming and a man yelling and shoving her. The woman looked like her from my windows. Last week, as I was getting off the subway, I saw her in a new spot, but it’s been a while since I last saw her. This time she looked like a zombie. There were strange rashes all over her skin and she looked like a bag of bones. I’m not sure if she has mental illness and/or on drugs, but I felt disbelief that she deteriorated from a healthy young woman to this stage in a matter of months. I feel really bad for her, but I also feel that aside from giving her food, giving her money won’t help. What would you do?
Anon
In an ideal world, provide food or gift card to a food only store. In reality, no one is carrying around spare groceries to give away to the homeless and a healthy woman who deteriorates in weight with rashes and scabs likely fell down a drug hole hard and fast and any money you give her is more likely to go to the drug habit.
It feels cold saying this, but I skip over most panhandlers (except for kids that seem truly homeless or the very elderly) and give a meaningful amount to charities that provide direct services like food and homeless shelters and churches and nonprofits that have free drug rehab facilities for the indigent.
NOLA
Some churches recommend having “manna bags” in your car (or on your person, I guess) to give to people rather than money. Here’s a list from a friend’s church about what they recommend putting in them: http://www.stjohnsbr.org/missions-outreach/manna-bags
Anon
Thank you for this link/resource. I’d been toying with the idea of keeping a stash of stuff in my car but couldn’t settle on what. I encounter a good number of panhandlers at stoplights regularly and do smile and nod (and contribute to appropriate local charities) but also feel like I’d like to do a bit more sometimes.
MomAnon4This
A guy at a traffic light/intersection in my suburban town knows me as the “granola bar lady”. I don’t have much to give, but i do have some extras from that 64-pack from Costco.
Anon
I know one of the charities in DC that works with the homeless will give you business cards to give to the homeless with the address of the shelter.
If you’re in DC, it’s Miriam’s Kitchen – they provide counseling, an address for mail (where do you get mail if you’re homeless?), advocacy, and so much help in addition to meals. They’re really active in driving around the city at night and talking with the homeless and making sure they know there’s a place that will help – I have to figure there are similar orgs in NYC?
Inspired By Hermione
There’s a project in Seattle called “just say hello,” and if I do nothing else (which is often- I don’t carry cash), I make sure to say hello, make eye contact, and maybe ask how they’re doing or make a comment about the weather. I’ve worked with homeless individuals in the past and one thing they say is that people treat them like they don’t exist. Recognition of their humanity is really important to peoole experiencing homelessness- even if the person doesn’t give anything.
If I’m going into a coffee shop I’ll sometimes ask if they want a coffee, chips or soda from the drugstore, etc. I so rarely carry cash that I don’t have to consider that much.
Falstaff
+1 to this. I have no qualms about giving panhandlers money, but I pass so many every day that I don’t want to be in the position of picking and choosing who to give it to and adopted a policy of not giving to anyone. I do say “hi” and make eye contact though.
Anon
This. There is a big uptick in homelessness in my city. Many people are complaining about aggressive panhandling and arguments with homeless people. I have always recognized them and been nice to them and I have never had any problem. It’s the people walking by yelling “get a job” that get into fights. I tend to have a lot of lara bars or protein bars in my purse for personal use but I usually have one or two I can spare if someone looks deserving. If I’m asked if I can spare some change I usually say “not today but I hope things get better for you.” They usually respond with “God Bless.”
Inspired by Hermione
Yep. There are some around work and around my apartment who recognize me, always say hi to me by name and who I consider part of the neighborhood, for better or worse. They know I don’t give $ and don’t ask, but they also know I’ll be kind to them and will pick up a milkshake or Starbucks some days.
I’ve only had problems with guys who say catcall type things to me and a well placed, sharp “Excuse me?” has been surprisingly successful in shutting that s*it down the first time it happens. After that they’re generally fine or ashamed and quiet. I haven’t found that method has much luck with people who aren’t consistently in the same place each day (is random guys walking past me).
Anonymous
Yeah I did that when I first moved to a big city. It resulted in homeless men following me for blocks and screaming obscenities at me when I didn’t give them money. Men take eye contact + smile as an invitation. This is terrible advice for women.
Anonymous
This is interesting to me. I intentionally avoid eye contact with people on the street; from homeless people to the overly friendly person with a clip board who just wants a moment of my time. I also live in an area with a lot of homeless people and have had a few very scary encounters with homeless people who (regardless of the reason) act really aggressively and seem unstable. As one example, I was walking my dog one night when a homeless man jumped in front of me and got within an inch of my face and started yelling at me that my walk was over. He followed me for a block, yelling at me, calling me names, and insisting that I had a gun in my pocket (I didn’t). There have been several similar incidents – most at night, but not all, so I now try to avoid walking my dog alone at night specifically. I’m not trying to suggest that all homeless people are frightening or aggressive, but where I live, a lot of them are and I honestly wouldn’t dream of making a habit of engaging on any level. This is an honest question – do you worry about your safety?
Anon in the South
This is the primary reason I tend not to interact with or give – in my city specifically (I know this isn’t the case with the homeless in all cities), the vast majority have severe mental health issues, or drug issues that have led to mental health issues, that make them pretty unpredictable. 70% may nod and move on if you respond you don’t have anything, the other 30% will curse you out, follow you, and/or try to touch or assault you. No thanks that 30% is enough to not interact – and that coupled with the occasional T.B. outbreak among the homeless population here (major U.S. southern city), my safety comes first – handing the occasional few dollars out my car window (car city) to the neighborhood homeless guy – who everyone knows and has not shown himself to be aggressive – is as far as I’ll go.
Anon
I talk to them BECAUSE I worry about my safety. Same with the local drug dealers when I was a social worker going in and out of the projects. If I was nice and said hi but otherwise minded my own business, they were kind to me and in fact looked out for me. If I treated them like they didn’t exist or acted scared of them, I was more likely to have problems with them.
To each their own. We all find what works for us. The homeless in one city can be very different than the homeless in another depending on the local services around and the reasons for homelessness. I’m not saying my approach works for everyone but it has been successful for me.
Anonymous
Seriously? You really want to engage? Keep moving. If you’re so compelled, write a check to a charity but one on one engagement?
Falstaff
You don’t have to stop and have a heart to heart, but, yes, these are people and you can interact with them as such. If they speak to you, you can respond politely without even slowing down. You can make eye contact and smile and keep moving. This is what I do multiple time a day without issue. I have the same approach to clipboard people – a polite “no thank you” and I keep it moving. You can be polite and still protective of your time and energy.
Anon
My husband and I were recently in Memphis and stoped and had a real conversation with a homeless man. We don’t carry cash and so did not have anything to give him. After we had talked for a while he started crying and told us it was because we talked to him as a person, and he said it was a rarer gift than money. With that said, had I been alone, I don’t know that I would have stopped for a while with the man. I do try to make eye contact and say hi when I’m alone.
Anon
I would call the police about the woman as this sounds like a possible human trafficking situation.
Anonymous
In NYC I would do 311 first. They can send homeless outreach teams out to help people.
blueberries
I give to charities that help people in need (food bank, organization that helps people on their feet). I don’t give to panhandlers.
The charities are much more effective at helping people (purchasing power per dollar, distributing resources) than direct giving would be. Also, in my area there’s a lot of family homelessness, where parents work, but just can’t afford housing. The charities can discreetly help these families—I don’t want parents to feel like they should drag their children to beg to get help.
career advice needed
Friends: career advice needed. I work at a small firm, was on partnership track, doing work for mostly one partner who has 50%+ of the business of the firm. There is about to be a schism in the firm. Other partners are basically trying to take over, and the collateral damage is my origination/salary. (This impacts all associates but especially the ones who have more origination, like moi.) They are saying the way it’s been calculated for the last 20+ years is a “mistake” and are looking to recoup 75% of the origination I have already been paid and also shut it down going forward. The legality of that clawback aside, I will probably lose about a third of my income. I also got a lower raise than anticipated. I am at the point where i need to decide to stay or jump ship to a bigger firm. I really enjoy working with the specific people I work with, but the writing looks more and more on the wall. I am in a good place to jump to a big firm and take the resulting salary increase although this is hard because it is not just about the money. Any thoughts on how to assess this?
Anonymous
Obviously you quit how is this a question. Fight the claw back tooth and nail and get out the second you can.
Anon
Just from an outsider’s perspective, there’s nothing really to assess. You’re about to be thrown overboard, so no matter how much you like your colleagues, you still have to look out for yourself and your career, so it’s time to move on.
Anon
+1
The original Scarlett
+1, and take your book with you when you go
Anon
THIS! Take your book (aggressively) and get out.
Idea
Chalk it up to partner politics and you’re collateral damage. It sucks but keep in mind it can happen anywhere, big or small firm, legal industry or not. At a non-profit my husband fell out of favor and was let go. At a for-profit consulting firm I had 2 babies in 2.5 years and was let go. You’ll thrive where you’re planted.
Anonymous
What in the world is the upside to staying? Your partner is being pushed out, your pay is being reduced by 33 %, and they are trying to take back money they already paid you!!!
Anonymous
Yeah, this. Not in law, but wow. My husband was once in a position where they wanted to cut his salary by 30% and move him onto a schedule that by company policy, made him ineligible to participate in the health care plan. He quit that day without having another job (it only took him a month to find another one). Get all of your information together, get all your files you can reasonably take with you without getting sued onto a thumb drive, pack up your office and get out. A bird in the hand is not worth more than two in the bush in this instance.
Senior Attorney
Yep. And a hard no on giving back any compensation that’s already been paid.
Anon
Oh you need to leave. That is crazy.
Anonymous
Are you sure you can’t be useful if you “switch sides”? You may have enough of a relationship with the client(s) to be useful to the ones taking over. Think about it. Also, that’s life. Try to see it coming and always always take your contacts and files with you when you go. I’d start getting that stuff on zip files you take home one a day asap.
Anon
Late in posting but I want to make sure you do not do the Zip drive thing. That is illegal and just what the firm would be looking for in establishing grounds to sue you. Your work at the firm is the intellectual property of the firm.
Anonymous
Not only do you need to leave, but if you have direct deposit for anything, change that to a bank account that you use only to deposit your pay, which you then promptly move.
Santa Fe
Anyone have Santa Fe hotel recs? Never been, and would like to stay downtown, on the square or walkable to downtown highlights for major tourist activities. Looks like a lot of lovely options.
anon
We always stay at La Fonda because of location, value and parking garage. I’ve also heard very nice things about the Inn of Five Graces.
Beth
Inn of Five Graces 100%. My absolute favorite hotel anywhere, ever. Beautiful, unique, fabulous but understated service.
No Support from Partner
Hi all, I was wondering what you think is the best way to handle when a partner you work with does not say “no” to clients even when it is ridiculous request. I am a midlevel in biglaw so understand this is semi common. But this partner I frequently work with regularly works remotely, hardly reads emails before the call and generally checks out. A common occurrence is client would have a problem. I would come up with Solution A and B, A being easier/more straightforward and B would mean extra 20 hours of work within next 24 hours for us. I would present to her. She would go to client with A but client would want B. She would not defense solution A at all. Rather, she would just say: “Absolutely – we can do that!” Being not in the same room, I can’t just signal to her no. After the call, she would not have time to debrief. So I would often stay late past midnight spinning my wheels with Solution B and send to her, which she would not review until the next afternoon (at home again).
I tried sending update emails as I go along. Tried calling her right after the conf call. Tried calling her before the call. But even when I got her attention, you could tell she was distracted and texting/emailing away.
I like her personally but her working style is driving me crazy. Worse still, I find myself resenting her for being able to working from home 3-4 days a week and spending time with her girls while I often won’t see my toddler son for the entire week.
Sorry for the vent! If you have any suggestions, I am all ears!
Anon
I mean, I’m not sure how you can be upset at being asked to work on Solution B when you’re the one developing Solution and presenting it to her as an option. If you tell her you can do it, of course she’s going to present it to the client as a possibility and of course if the client prefers that solution, that’s what you have to do.
As far as being resentful that she spends so much time working from home, she’s a partner, she’s earned it. Large law firms are very hierarchical. Partners can do lots of things that associates can’t.
Anonymous
Stop presenting both options if one is not entirely viable. Just say “this is the solution we can do.” If pushed to give a second option, demur and say “Sorry, I would have to research that and get back to you.” Usually when faced with a delay for someone to research an option, clients and bosses alike will just pick the option that’s on the table.
I had a boss like this at one point, who would always go for the more complex, more time-consuming, and less-likely-to-produce-results-efficiently option. The advice I gave you is the advice I was given by my boss’ boss, and it worked in my situation. The other thing I did on a couple of occasions when I was pressed was to give one viable option and one option that was so unviable the boss would have to be dumb to choose it (like, we could do X but we’d have to bend the space-time continuum to make it work. You get the idea).
It’s all in the framing and delivery, and it’s also about managing up. If you position it as “I guess we could do option A or we could do option B too I guess,” get ready to do option B. If you approach the conversation confidently, and say “I have done some investigation and research and Option A is a great course of action because of X, Y and Z” and do not even present another option, your confidence will help drive the decision-making the direction you need it to go.
Anon
This is great advice. You have to manage up.
Anon
This drives me insane too. I deal with the exact same thing. Our partners are genuinely terrified of telling a client no and losing their business, so the expectation is you move heaven and earth to get it done, no matter what, no matter how absurd and unreasonable. Heck, our partners are even timid about pushing back when a client has a really hare-brained scheme that’s unlikely to achieve the client’s goals. One partner, whom I greatly respect, obsesses over, second guesses, and practically tortures herself over every communication with a really down-to-earth client for fear she’ll make a misstep. This ridiculousness is reason 947 I have already identified my off-ramp. This is not the sandbox I want to play in long-term.
Anon
I think you need to stop giving option B or when laying out option B be very clear that it will take more time/research/money. It sounds like you’re giving her two options, so she gives them to the client. You need to manage her and give her an exact script for the client to steer the client to option A. Don’t expect her to pushback on client requests because law is a service business.
Stop being resentful about her working from home. It’s annoying but she’s senior to you and a partner. She gets to do a lot of things you don’t. Law firms are hierarchical places.
No Support from Partner
Thanks all. I didn’t word properly. Solution B was the suggestion from the client (or what they implied) so I was addressing their option and saying how that does not work.
Understood re working from home.
AFT
So, I agree with most of the comments above, and have also been the associate who does all the work and has to provide options to the not-so-clued-in partner so feel a lot of sympathy here.
One option that worked well for me (for both in person and telephone) was to connect with the partner 5-10 mins before the call and give them the run down before we get on with the client. It was worth their time to talk with me because they could ignore the issue until that point and trust I would give them what they needed before the call started so that they could fake being informed. I agree with suggestions above that you need to be careful about positioning the two options as equally viable, but I think if you can get time with the partner immediately beforehand, you can say “Here’s what’s going on… I looked into Client’s suggestion of Option B, and I think we can get the same results from Option A and it will be better/cheaper/more likely to succeed/etc. because of reasons.”
But at the end of the day, unreasonable partners are going to be unreasonable and won’t say no to clients because that could hurt them, so do your best but recognize this may be a partner problem and not a communication problem.
Anon
Hmm this slightly changes my calculation. Definitely a know your firm, yourself, the partner situation, but I personally would jump in on the call and say something. I’m more senior than you but you can still do this in a way that’s not undermining the partner, such as, “we’d initially looked into that but moved away because of x, can we spend a little bit more time looking into that option and get back to you”
Or if you suspect the client will propose an option you know is bad, try spelling out up front to the partner why it’s a bad idea.
Also just throwing it out there, the partner may actually know that option b takes more work/time and likes that. This is one of the unfortunate part of being an associate, more time/stress for you means more dollars for th partner so you aren’t really aligned and the partner is the boss and gets to decide.
Anon
Does anyone work in commercial real estate or small business loans and can speak to how getting a small business off the ground works? (I’m considering opening a small business in a super small town and I’m not ready to make inquiries and set tongues wagging, and while I’ve found tons of helpful general info online, I haven’t seen this basic chicken-or-egg question answered.)
Do you get the business loan first and then go look for real estate or do you put an offer in on The Super Perfect Commercial Space available now and make it contingent on commercial financing? And any idea when in the process you get licensing/zoning/occupation approvals from the local gov’t? Is the commercial real estate purchase contingent on getting those gov’t approvals?
Thanks for any help!
Anonymous
So I used to do consulting with small businesses and I would highly recommend reaching out to a Small Business Development Center or Women’s Business Center in your area; they can walk you through the steps you need to take specific for your state/locality in terms of zoning, etc. but also in terms of business basics.
Here’s some bad news. Banks hardly ever lend to startup businesses. By which I mean, really almost never will that ever happen. They will encourage you to take out a HELOC if you own a house and some banks (some) do personal signature loans, but it is not a business loan you are taking out, it is personal and tied to your credit. There are microlenders out there who can loan for startup but the max loan is usually in the low five figures. You need to thoroughly explore your options before counting on startup money coming in through a loan.
More bad news. Commercial real-estate landlords don’t sign leases with businesses in startup unless the business owner can show there is sufficient cash flow from a job, family trust, etc. outside of what the think the business will be able to generate. Or, if you have a lot of money in the bank – like 6-12 months of rent plus some – some might rent to you. But generally, most commercial landlords have seen enough new business owners with stars in their eyes to know that you won’t be generating sufficient cash flow for at least 6 months to pay them out of the business proceeds – if the business lasts that long. Experienced landlords have taken enough tenants to court over unpaid rent not to want to do it again. In my area, a standard commercial lease is 3 years and it is very difficult to get a landlord to sign anything shorter. You have to pay deposits, and not all landlords will build out the space to suit or even offer a portion of the costs toward buildout.
A larger question: Why do you need a space right away? One of the biggest mistakes I saw clients make was renting commercial space when they could work out of their house. You do not need an office if you are offering professional services – work out of your house. You can even get a tax deduction for it. If you are opening a retail store or restaurant – really think about that. Location is EVERYTHING in retail and food service and the best locations, that have the most chance of succeeding, are pricey. I used to tell clients they needed a minimum of 6 months to 1 year working in the type of business they wanted to open before they really understood the ins and outs of the business. I saw a lot of lawyers, mid-level managers, etc. who wanted to open coffee shops but had never worked in coffee shops. It is grueling, back-breaking work compared to what they had been doing and they were not ready for it.
All respect – take a step back and start from the beginning. Do you have a business plan that includes a 12-month projection of profit and loss and cash flow? An SBDC or WBC can help you create one. It is going to be very difficult to get any startup financing (loan or otherwise) without that. Do you have a marketing plan? One gets written into your business plan, generally. Take a breath and go talk to someone who understands not just how to start a business but how businesses are doing in your area. Businesses in super-small towns are a risk because super-small towns have a lower economic base to draw from. An SBDC/WBC consultant will be able to help you pull market data to understand what realistic income projections look like and help you decide how to move forward. Good luck.
Anon
OP here. There was no way for you to know from my post that I’ve already written a business plan and run the numbers and studied demographics and pulled state DOT traffic counts and analyzed the competition and contacted similar business owners in other states for their lessons learned and had a logo designed and checked business names with the state and am as cautiously confident as it’s possible to be. I understand the odds and the risks. I was just asking about the timing of buying commercial land since it’s necessary for this type of business and most guides don’t touch on it because of all the reasons you mentioned.
Anonymous
Yeah, get defensive. That’s always a good sign the idea is going to succeed.
Sister, I worked with hundreds of business owners over my time as a consultant and I have seen a lot of people go down in flames because they let their heart overrule their head, or because they pulled the trigger on borrowing a lot of money without understanding the risks of running a small business. Unless you have a lot of money from some other source (savings, spousal income, investment income, trust fund, etc.) you’re going to have a hard time finding someone to loan you the money to buy a commercial building based on your projections that the business will throw off enough cash for you to pay the loan. Because most likely it won’t, for a year or more. Good for you for doing the due diligence and understanding your market. I speak from experience, my own and my clients’ – startup always takes longer than you think and requires more capital than you think it will. Overconfidence and refusal to listen sinks a lot of good ideas. Bankers and loan officers have seen that, time and again. It’s a business for them too, and even if they love your idea and think it has potential, at the end of the day they want to know they will get paid even if the business fails.
To answer your original questions:
– I had commercial Realtors and commercial property owners as clients. No one would have accepted an offer that was contingent on the buyer obtaining financing; most Realtors won’t even present an offer where the financing isn’t in place. However, there’s always a situation where the property owner is desperate or willing to take a chance and will consider something others wouldn’t. A good commercial Realtor in the area will be able to advise about this and should keep your inquiry confidential if you ask them to; a lot of commercial deals are conducted behind closed doors and my experience was that commercial Realtors were good at discretion.
– I also worked with small community bankers and no one would have loaned money for commercial property purchase where the owner was going to occupy and was expecting cash flow to cover the mortgage unless you met the income/asset qualifications I specified above.
– Most property owners who would accept an offer where financing was in place would never accept a contingency that the deal closes only if regulatory/licensing hurdles are cleared, nor would they insist on that as a contingency because that’s not in their best interest. Zoning and licensing is a process that in many municipalities – even small ones – is labyrinthine and fraught with perils. And it’s one the commercial property owner has no control over. You bear that risk; despite your paranoia about talking about it in the community, you can save yourself a lot of heartache by just going to City Hall in the municipality and asking questions about the zoning, licensing and inspection process. Even then, take what you hear with a grain of salt and expect it to take twice as long and cost twice as much as they’re telling you. If it doesn’t work out that way, you can be pleasantly surprised.
– You need to start working on zoning/licensing/inspections now, or at least at the time you form your LLC and get a business license. Every municipality is different and that’s why my answer above is so critical. Some cities want to approve everything step by step; others will give you an information packet and expect you to call them a certain number of days before planned opening for inspection. You may be dealing with neighborhood associations (in some places they have a lot of power) and state agencies as well as the city. A consultant or even a business attorney in the area should be able to help you navigate this and I highly recommend you get in touch with one ASAP. I saw businesses go out of business before they opened because they failed to understand the regulatory requirements, their opening got delayed over and over, and they ran out of capital before they could open their doors. Don’t underestimate the importance of the regulatory process; it can make or break your business. It is not an “oh yeah, that too” type of endeavor, especially if you are serving food/beverages and ESPECIALLY if you plan to serve alcohol.
Anon
I’m sorry if you took my response as being defensive – it’s a limitation of message boards. Your first answer was so thoughtful, but because my original question was brief with only the barest context, you couldn’t have known that what you were saying wasn’t addressing my situation. So I responded by listing what all I had done so that we could avoid that back-and-forth that often happens here where people (and I’m guilty of it myself!) seize on one thing in a post and miss the poster’s forest for the trees. So, genuinely, thank you for taking the time to come back and answer my original question – the answers really are very helpful and have pointed me to a few more areas to look into.
And to clarify, the business is mini storage, so land and construction are necessities, and the risks and cost-benefit are different than many of the concerns for other businesses.
Anonymous
No problem and I am glad you are asking questions; so many people don’t. I had a couple of mini-storage people come to me for help over the years but they were past start-up, so can’t offer a lot of help there specifically. I wouldn’t usually agree that someone needs to buy real-estate from the jump but in your case, I think it is definitely worth exploring, especially if you are going to be constructing on the property. Your biggest hurdle might be zoning and, if there are active neighborhood associations in the area, dealing with them as a mini-storage might not be seen as an asset to the neighborhood (although it is a booming business, as I’m sure you know!). Being in a teeny town could be a benefit or a detriment. In your position, I would go to some city council and zoning board meetings (if you think zoning will be an issue) and get to know the big municipal players. When you’re ready to start talking publicly, reach out to them and play up any jobs that will be created either in startup or ongoing.
Fun story, one of the clients I worked with a few years ago had a mini-storage and I helped him get an $8000 microloan to get a specially trained guard dog for the property. They also had a live-on-property property manager and the dog (who was a total sweetheart when he wasn’t patrolling) lived with the manager.
Anon
OMG she obviously wasn’t being defensive. You clearly have too much free time on your hands.
LOL
OMG you’re posting here too, about something you obviously don’t care about…who’s got too much free time on their hands exactly? LoL
Anon
OP again – thanks! I just reached out to my local women’s SBA center to run the plan by them. I had bookmarked them early in my brainstorming process, but had forgotten about them until your post, so I’ll grab an appointment with them to have another set of eyes look over things.
As far as the county…you said that just as I got an automated notice that tonight’s zoning board meeting is cancelled because “they do not see the possibility of an effective outcome” – yikes haha. Just as soon as I feel ready to go live with some in-town people, I’ll definitely start polishing those relationships.
Anonymous
I think the response you were looking for is “thank you”. She took the time to give really quality advice whether or not you think you need it.
Anonymous
FWIW, no startup buys land. Even established businesses generally rent.
Annonnnn
+1 unless you have gobs of money burning a hole in your pocket, but seeing as you would need financing it’s not a great idea.
Anon
I am in commercial real estate. Your chicken and egg hasn’t been answered because it depends on how you are funding your business. Above poster is right that it’s very difficult to get a business loan for a startup. You need collateral.
If you need the land you are buying as collateral/need a loan to purchase the land, you draft a purchase and sale agreement for the land that includes a financing contingency. Most commercial sellers will not want to agree to this (note that I work middle market, so maybe it’s different in the price range you are looking at). The seller will want to know they are working with a sophisticated party that can make the transaction happen whether or not financing is available.
You can make your purchase and sale agreement contingent on seeking zoning approval, but again but sellers won’t want to agree to anything that can hold up the sale. Most contracts I see are 30 day diligence, 15 day close. Licensing/zoning/occupation approvals are super super local dependent and can take days to years depending on what you are looking to change. You should buy land that is already zoned to your use if at all possible to reduce costs. Licensing and certificates of occupancy vary so much depending on your business and the locality that it’s impossible to give advice. Find a local land use lawyer to run these timing questions by. They will be bound by confidentiality.
Anonymous
Is something happening in philly this weekend? Even the holiday inn express downtown is over $400 a night
January
Yeah, the Love Run half marathon is Sunday.
Boden
Anyone have a Boden referral code? Thanks :)
Inspired By Hermione
Vent: I need a few pairs of pants for spring. I went to Old Navy because I don’t want/can’t afford to spend a ton since my size fluctuates. Tried on a bunch of Pixies in different types (chino, regular, etc). They didn’t fit in my normal size but the next size up was WAY too big. Ok. Fine. But I tried on a pair of the “sateen” Pixie chinos and they fit great. Same size as everything else. Why, Old Navy. Why do none of your clothes have consistent sizing. Why. Why. Why. I might have to go try on every style of pants they have this weekend to find some. Ugh.
Anon
I have the exact same problem with the Pixie pants! The regular Pixies don’t fit me but I have a pair of the sateen ones and I love them. FWIW the similar pants at Gap fit me much better. I think they’re called bi-stretch skinny pants. A little more expensive but Gap is always having sales.
Inspired By Hermione
I’ve bought a ton of the Gap version before but (at least the ones I have, maybe they’ve changed since fall 2017) don’t fit me right now. But, again. The bigger ones are laughably big. Aurghhhhhhh. I see why people wear leggings as pants….
The original Scarlett
They manufacture them at different factories. That’s why there’s always size variance in the same item in different colors.
Idea
This…. actually answers the question and is helpful. Thanks. I learned something!
Inspired by Hermione
Thanks! Annoying, but it makes sense.
Anonymous
Also, each piece is cut from many layers of fabric at the same time. There can be shifting/movement and some layers may be larger than others. And, even a small variance in the width of the seam can affect the fit.
Ariadne
I have the same issue with the old navy rockstar jeans. I find that the ones in the black fabric fit me the best, but there is so much inconsistency in terms of fit that I simply try on several pairs in the same size in store. I’ve tried other washes and they never fit the same as the black ones as the fabric is thicker, but bags out more.
Inspired by Hermione
Also have this problem with the Rockstars. The black ones also work best for me. The colored jeans are always so tight when the same cut of the black jeans fits more like a narrow straight leg. Some of them work better than others. I haven’t found any actual denim-wash Rockstars that fit.
Ariadne
+1 I have no denim wash rockstars either, and would love to have some, it they just don’t fit as well — or at all!
Anonymous
I really think that different colors of Rockstars are made of a different material composition. Mine definitely feel different. I have 3 shades of blue, gray, black, and mint. The gray and black are my favorites.
Ariadne
I forgot to mention that the velvet rockstars fit pretty close to the black ones. I wear mine in winter, and as inspired by hermione mentioned, they fit more like narrow straight legs on 5’4 me.
Long Distance OP
Thank you everyone for weighing in on my long post yesterday seeking advice on long distance relationships. I guess I was naively hoping things would naturally work out over time (and felt like I was making SO choose between “Escaping a currently horrible work situation here/taking up an interesting opportunity elsewhere” vs. “Staying here with me” if I took a stand), but the overwhelming advice (which laid out all the aspects of this situation that made me uncomfortable but which I hadn’t recognized / verbalized) has made me realize that we still need to make our priorities and timelines clear to ourselves and each other beforehand.
Anon
I’m glad we could help.
You wouldn’t be making him choose between a horrible work situation and you. You have a large city near both of you, and it is well within his power to job-hunt there. It is well within his power to job-hunt in an entirely different city, but one that you like and has career opportunities for you. He can job-hunt near you. He can turn this down.
I’m strident about this because H and I were long-distance from the start, and we were both willing to give up our respective states and jobs to move for the other person. It was always a conversation and a two-way street.
Anon
Hugs. I know it’s tough when this board shoots down a relationship. I was in a not-great relationship a few years ago and the ladies here helped me in a similar tough-love way. And yes, they were completely, 110% right, even if it did take me a few more weeks to come around to their advice. FWIW, I broke up with that guy, moped around, then threw myself back into dating and eventually met Mr. Really Right instead of Mr. I Mean, This Is Good, Right?
Anonymous
I am glad you were able to take away some nuggets from the discussion. I felt passionate about weighing in because my husband and I were long-distance when we started dating (he moved 3 hours away literally the week after we hooked up for the first time after being friends for a year). The only reason it worked was because very early on, we knew we were really into each other and had a discussion about “where is this going” that resulted in the conclusion that, in 9 months when my grad program was done, we would move to somewhere we could both be together. Period, end of story. As it happened, I ended up getting a good job in the city where he lived and had gotten a good job (and we still live there, 20 years later). If there hadn’t been an end date to the long-distance thing, the relationship would probably have just fizzled out. But I knew I wanted to be with him and he was clear he wanted to be with me, and we agreed we would do what it took to make it work. After 20 years of marriage, I will tell you – don’t marry someone you are just okay with, because I don’t know how couples make it through the tough times if there isn’t a strong attraction and connection from the jump.
Anon
I agree with this. My husband and I met when I was doing an internship in his city and after the internship I went back across the country to finish school, with the understanding that I’d move to his city after graduation. And then later on, he took a job in a different city and we were long distance, but with an end date and an understanding he’d move back.
There have been discussions here before about long distance where (surprisingly many, imo) people argued that anyone who would take a job in a different city doesn’t prioritize their relationship. I think that’s a huge oversimplification, particularly if you’re talking about people in industries like academia or the military, where moves are essentially mandatory if you don’t want to leave your career. Not wanting to sacrifice your long-term career for a relationship, especially a newer relationship, doesn’t mean you don’t value the relationship or see a future with the other person, and long distance relationships ca be very successful. So I was really glad yesterday to see lots of people who are generally pro-LDR chime in with more nuanced views on OP’s situation.
Sorry this wasn’t the outcome you wanted, OP. Good luck going forward whatever you decide.
OOTD
To keep going with the outfit theme today: what’s everyone wearing today?
I’m in: Bright pink Pixies, a black v-neck sleeveless top, open leopard print cardigan, olive green ballet flats with a patent toe, and a long beaded necklace that’s very light gold beads. Dark pink lip.
Anon
Can’t contribute anything interesting but that’s a lot of LOOK at once. Kudos to your for pulling it off.
Senior Attorney
OMG I love your outfit, OP.
Strangely, I am wearing almost the same outfit I was wearing the last time we did one of these threads: Blue-on-blue print BR Sloan pants, blue-and-white pinstripe button front shirt with a dark blue floral pattern on the top half, chambray-colored blazer, bright silver tassel loafers. And my Rotary lapel pin because it’s Rotary meeting day and I’m the president.
NOLA
Our weather has been fluctuating and it appears that the HVAC is not able to keep up with the temp changes. I have been mostly freezing in my office for the past week. I’m wearing gray jeans that I bought back in January and are now probably a size too big (although that’s not obvious to anyone but me), a light gray v-neck t-shirt, a wonderful cozy gray marled boucle cardigan with a wide collar that I bought in Munich, and Franco Sarto Linden boots in black. The sweater is the only thing that’s keeping me working right now.
Anonymous
Navy Reiss sheath dress, nude patent pumps (so out of style, I learned here recently), diamond pendant
scsmith
Cute! The sun came out today, so I’m wearing a black sheath dress (French Connection), light blue blazer (Target!), black tights, and black square-toe flats (Nine West).
Anon
How do the French Connection sheath dresses fit?
scsmith
Mine is a hand-me-down from my mom, I believe this is a late 90s dress! I love the structure and weight of the material, but I’m not sure if the modern lines hold up to this one.
Belle Boyd
Black pants, black cami, denim jacket, black and white fringed scarf, and black suede/leather booties.
Senior Attorney, your outfit sounds amazing! Blue always looks so spring-like.
NOLA
Your outfit sounds like something I would wear! I love black and white scarves.
Anonymous
OP, please give me even half of your confidence and the colors in your wardrobe!
I’ve been trying to incorporate more bright colors, but today’s look doesn’t really accomplish that. Beige boatneck sweater (Target? Kohl’s?) tucked into a sage green patch pocket skirt from Loft. Layered gold necklaces, gold round-toe flats (Naturalizer). I feel like this outfit could use a Third Piece, but it didn’t happen this morning.
Chunky Sneakers
Yea or nay??? I’m thinking balenciaga-like but something much cheaper by Nike or Zara or Adidas. For weekend apparel, probably paired with culottes, t-shirt and jean jacket or leather jacket.
Annonnnn
If that’s your style, go for it, but I personally think they look horrendous.
BabyAssociate
+1, not for me
Anon
Are you a 20 year old instagram influencer? I think those are the only people who can wear those, and even then I think it’s a ridiculous look.
Anonymous
I don’t have exactly those, but I find them more wearable than you’d think. If go for it, especially at that cheaper price point.
Anonymous
Long shot but any current or federal government employees here who understand the pension system (FERS – currently the 4.4% deduction system). Any idea if prior work as a federal law clerk (Dist. Ct.) counts as creditable service for FERS purposes? Or whether they look for 5 years at an agency? Meaning say you’ve been at an agency for 4 years — does FERS consider you vested for pension purposes because of 4 years at the agency + 12 months clerking, or do you need to finish out the full 5 at the agency? Clerked in 2007-08. I’ll ask HR but it’s always hard to figure out who to ask these things to so I figured I’d post here just in case someone knows offhand.
Falstaff
It depends on whether your pay was subject to FERS deductions in that appointment. I’ll post a link to the OPM site in a reply.
Falstaff
https://www.opm.gov/retirement-services/fers-information/creditable-service/
Anon
I clerked for three years in federal court. Those years were not creditable. However, my work at a federal agency before law school was creditable.
anonanon
You need to confirm with both your agency HR as well as the pension docs. My pension (not FERS) relies on the service computation date that’s on your SF-50.
Beth
If you were classified as a permanent clerk, you may have creditable service, otherwise, probably not.
Latisse
I recently purchased Latisse for $120 at a medspa. The internet is giving me confusing results, what do other users normally pay/ are there cheaper avenues? $120/tiny bottle is a lot cheaper than lash extension but I want to do my due diligence and not overpay!
BabyAssociate
I think I paid $150 for 2 small bottles at my dermatologist’s office.
Anon
I got mine for less than half that price via prescription from my PCP for the generic: Bimatoprost Ophthalmic Solution – prescribed specifically for “lack of lashes” (even though my lashes are normal) so they came with a little applicator brush. You way overpaid, just go through your PCP or optometrist/ophthalmologist next time.
Anonymous
Anyone here a landlord? I’m thinking of buying a fixer upper and then renting it for at least a year, then selling it to get capital gains instead of ordinary income tax treatment. Can you deduct the costs to repair (I know, not “improve” the property) prior to actually signing a lease? From what I read this includes things like painting, roofing, plumbing, etc. but not overhauling kitchens and baths that are already functional though hideous. When I go to sell, I can still count the improvements as part of my basis in the house, right? How does depreciating the property work? How do you decide is the right length of time to depreciate it? Is this a good plan? I’d love to hear stories good, bad and neutral on experiences with this. I’ve “flipped” two previous properties after living in them 2 years each with good results (so got tax exemption on gains).
Reluctant Landlord
I’d only do it if you’re in some sort of “too hot to fail” market. All it takes is one crappy tenant and your gains are wiped out. All the screening in the world can’t necessarily prevent that. Voice of experience here. Have had 2 prior sets of awesome, multi-year tenants. These tenants (married couple) came highly recommended, passed all background/references, pay their rent on time and also have managed to break every damn thing they touch in a well-maintained, well built house. Counting the days until their lease is up.
Anonymous
+1. I’m a multi-property landlord which included a fixer upper. Renting is a business separate from the fixing up. Make sure you are up for that.
Anonymous
Oh man, my sympathies. This is exactly why I have resisted going into owning rental property…it seems like you just never know what you’re going to get in terms of tenants.
Anon
Seriously… these idiots managed to break THE TOILET SEAT.
Anon
OMG, please, please, PLEASE do not become a landlord. It is the most horrific experience ever. I have years of (inherited/accidental/how bad can it be?) experience and I cannot dissuade you strongly enough.
However much you budget for the reno will cost more.
However long you budget for the reno will take longer.
The contractor with fantastic references who starts the job will just stop returning your calls in the middle of your reno and leave you hanging.
The replacement contractor you hire bills materials for someone else’s project to your tab at the local hardware store.
Your “great tenants” with perfect references and a “sweet cat” will let that cat spray all over your house and you’ll have to replace all the carpet and paint every square inch.
The fridge will break.
The microwave will quit.
The AC will go out on the hottest day of the year.
The heat will go out on the coldest day of the year.
The pilot light on the gas water heater will continually be blown out by a breeze because the tenants leave the garage door open and they’ll expect you to send a repairman out for “cold water.”
The family – and the father is an upstanding pillar of the community – will have a teenage special needs son who will EAT your mini blinds and ceiling fan blades and PAINT your carpet and TACKLE the upstairs toilet causing the pipe to break in the floor and water to flood the hardwood floors downstairs, and you’ll have to take them to court because they say their one month security deposit is totally adequate to cover all that. (I’ve just outed myself for anyone who knows me in IRL.)
Literally EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE HAS HAPPENED TO ME PERSONALLY. And I’m not normally a particularly unlucky person haha. Please please please do not go down this route. Just go to the bank, take out a loan, withdraw said loan in cash, and go light those bills on fire – because that’s what being a landlord is like.
anon
+1
anon a mouse
I would never rent out a fixer-upper without living in it first to understand what the quirks are. You just have no idea what hard tenants will do to the property (plumbing, walls, hvac, etc).
Anonymous
Thanks, everyone. Back to the drawing board I guess. So hard to figure out investments outside of 401(k), bonds and stock.
Anon
Can’t you invest in real estate somehow without actually being a landlord?
SC
Haha. I’m a landlord. We have a triplex, and things went great while we were living in one of the units. We moved a few months ago, and since then, (a) lots of stuff has broken, (b) it took a long time to find a new tenant to rent the unit we moved out of, and (c) one of the tenants, who lived peacefully in a unit for 2 years, went absolutely nuts, harassed and threatened the new tenant, and is threatening to sue us. We’re seriously considering selling next year.
Anon
On the other hand, it is also entirely possible to have very reasonable if not perfect tenants and to have to maintain the property as you would your own home and blame it on the tenants. Being a Landlord can work very well, it’s partially luck of the draw (and proper screening) when it comes to tenants and understanding the pricing appropriately. Most of the people I know who screen about Landlording being terrible didn’t properly vet the property or the market – proper property price, rental price, knowledge of repair costs, appropriate insurance and emergency fund all play into how stressed out this makes you – and no one I know who bought a fixer upper came out on top. Go to Bigger Pockets for more than this one person’s terrible experience to read about people who approach landlording as a business and treat it as such – to avoid terrible investments and to understand the risk/reward ratios of properties.
Anonymous
THank you!
Anon for this
Thank you for this perspective. We have a house that is sitting on the market for longer than we want and I’ve started mentally exploring the idea of renting it. I’ve never wanted to be a landlord for all those reasons, but time and my bank account have made me question that.
I’m re-thinking my re-thinking. THANK YOU!
Anon
Ah! Just sent a LinkedIn message to someone about a dream job I applied for. (I was the poster a few days ago talking about how he was at the parent company). Totally sweating! Hoping he responds (and with good news).