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Updated: Oct 30, 2018 330 Comments · by

Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Tailored Dress

The Personal Shopper (TPS)

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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. karen-millen-tailored-dress-2I always love Karen Millen's slightly edgy, sophisticated workwear. Loooove all the darts and seams in the bodice and skirt here — gorgeous. It's $309, available in sizes 2-12 at Karen Millen. Karen Millen Tailored Dress This $75 dress is similar(ish) and comes in sizes XXS-4x. Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-all)

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Comments

  1. LondonLeisureYear

    I would love any travel advice people have for Austria (especially where one should go stay if they want snow and night tobogganing but aren’t into skiing and just want to sit in front of a fire and read), New Zealand, Japan, and Rome/Florence/Tuscany (especially Tuscany – looking for a gorgeous boutique hotel to just relax at for 3 days).

    In exchange I can offer travel advice on:
    Dublin
    Isle of Skye in Scotland
    Naples
    London (live here so have lots of advice)
    Budapest
    Prague
    Amsterdam
    Munich
    Leipzig
    Etc lots of places.

    • Anonymous

      I’ve been to Austria tons (family) but just heading into a meeting for the rest of the day so I’ll post some stuff/ideas tomorrow.

      • LondonLeisureYear

        Thank you!!! It will be a trip between Xmas and New Years for 10 days.

          • LondonLeisureYear

            Nothing is booked so we are open – I was thinking a combo of Salzburg, Vienna, and a place with snow that was just super relaxing but am open to all suggestions.

    • Delta Dawn

      My biggest tip for Austria is the Christmas markets. I hope they are still up after Christmas when you are there. I spent Thanksgiving in Austria one year and spent the entire time wandering from booth to booth at the various open-air markets they have around the holidays, crepe in one hand, gluhwein in the other. Actually, my biggest tip is gluhwein.

      Also, if you can, try to go to the opera in Vienna. I went a decade ago and still consider it one of the neatest bucket-list things I’ve ever done. Have fun on your trip!

    • anonshmanon

      New Zealand: take 2 weeks minimum, both because there is so much to see and to make the travel time worth it. I mean it! Been twice for a month each and left out a lot of stuff.
      Breathtaking nature with lots of variety. You have to road-trip though, hardly any public transport. By European standards, not much in the way of cityskapes, old buildings and so on. But, oh, the nature!

      • LondonLeisureYear

        We were thinking of getting a RV camper van thing and doing it road trip style. We have a month to split between New Zealand and Japan so lots of time.

        What are your do not miss things? Thanks!

        • anonshmanon

          pricey but worth it: walking on a volcano (white Island), walking on a glacier, boat trip in Milford Sound, night walk watching kiwis in Zealandia
          medium price: Wine tasting, Rotorua museum on both culture and geothermal activity, Waitangi museum on Maori culture
          free: national heritage museum Te papa in Wellington, Hiking the Tongariro crossing, secluded beaches in coromandel peninsula, lots of bushwalks in gorgeous random places
          Camper van is the way to go, there are lots of rental companies to choose from. Also, camping places for every budget.
          Must get back there…

          • Anonymous

            Aoraki/Mount Cook Big Sky Stargazing is amazing too – Only dark sky reserve in the Southern Hemisphere and only 1 of 8 worldwide.

        • Emmen

          I did this! We did two weeks around the south island in a campervan and it was the best honeymoon trip we could have done. There is SO much to see and do. I’ve traveled a bit and NZ is my favorite place in the world so far. If you go, I highly recommend the NZ Frenzy book so you don’t miss the neatest stuff. Of the three travel guides we bought, that quickly turned into our bible, while the other two took up space in my suitcase for 13 days. Two apps to recommend as well: CamperMate and Official Camping NZ (paid version). These saved us a couple times when the atlas proved useless or we needed to change our campsite plans.

          • LondonLeisureYear

            What size camper van did you get? Did you have a favorite company to rent from? I hear some have crazy hidden fees. Thanks for the tips! I am so excited!!!

    • Kim

      OH you HAVE to go Hallstatt! It’s literally a town out of a fairytale and the perfect place to get A hotel on the lake and watch the snow fall.

    • Anonymous

      I’ve never been to the places you mentioned, but I would love advice on traveling to the Isle of Skye in Scotland! My husband I are going there for a couple of days (as part of a larger trip) in late June. We are currently planning on staying at Three Chimneys. Any recommendations for things we must do, etc. would be great! Packing tips would be great too.

      Thank you!

      • LondonLeisureYear

        Jealous! When we went we planned to have dinner at the Three Chimneys but the whole island had a power outage so we couldn’t have dinner and then they had no more open reservations!

        I bought this book: The Most Amazing Scenic Journeys in Britain: Great Drives of Discovery Through England, Scotland and Wales . I highly suggest finding a copy – maybe from your library and copying the pages for the Isle of skye and for other areas in scotland. It gives you good time estimates and was really helpful to know what roads to drive on to see the best views because things are not marked well.

        We rented a car and drove from Edinburgh to the Isle of Skye. We took the Skye Bridge getting there.
        Things we did that I recommend:
        Dunvegan castle
        Old Man of Storr and Lealt Falls.
        Quiraing – literally the best thing ever. Give yourself so much time to hike
        The Fairy Glenn near Uig is sooooo gorgeous – hard to find, you will be like “should I be driving here!?!?” but you should be.

        On the way back we took the ferry across to Armadale which was great because it gave my husband a break from driving and had great views. The driving is a bit intense if you aren’t used to single track roads, driving on the other side of the road, and all the sheep. So be prepared for that. Its my husband’s favorite trip hands down, but he also says he lost a year of his life due to the stress from driving.

        We then drove to Loch Lomond because we wanted to see what inspired the song “The Bonnie Banks o’ Loch Lomond”. This route back to Edinburgh took more time but had amazing views on the way. Give yourself time to get out of the car to take a million pictures.

        We only had a long weekend – my wish is to go back and take a million more pictures.

        I say pack layers, have a good windbreaker, pack a beanie even if its summer because the wind can be fierce. Have water proof gear, good hiking shoes, and good wool socks (recommend smart wool) so if your feet get wet its not the end of the world. Also if you are driving, grab some snacks because petrol stations can be few and far between, also ask for the GPS thing for the car if you rent, because cell phone service is iffy.

        Enjoy so much!

    • Engines

      I went to Vienna and Salzburg, just for a couple days each. Salzburg was my favorite. Very quaint and cute, cobblestone streets, etc. Make sure to hit Mirabel Gardens where they filmed part of the Sound of Music.

    • Anon

      Tuscany hotels: Poggio Piglia (reasonably priced, beautiful boutique hotel) or Castello di Casole (if you want to splurge).

    • Anon

      I believe you can always wear colorful accessories if the rest of your outfit is pretty neutral, and I have worked in banking, law, and interned at an MBB (across NY, London, Boston and Silicon Valley). The amount of color you wear will depend on where your office and clients are. In general, I would say conservative dress rules are best–no cleavage, not too tight, wear stuff that’s comfortable enough for long days, but tailored enough to be put together. Anything that’s on the more conservative end of AT, Talbots, MGemi, Classiques Entier–all the brands/places you see people mentioning here. Do you look like the pulled-together enough associate that a partner wants to take you to a pitch should be your litmus test.

      I would also buy just a bit now, and then see what is best for you in terms of travel/dry cleaning, fit, cost per wear, etc. I personally err toward a lot of “less memorable” staples that are perfectly pulled together/ mix-n-match (a larger version of a capsule) because I’d rather have a workhorse wardrobe that is easy in the morning than have a ton of “unusual” outfits that I have to consider when I last wore that statement dress. I also have a variety of outfits for different office temperatures–some places I have worked over the years have been iceboxes, while others are a bit warm. You gotta suss it out! Good luck and definitely take care of yourself. MBB can be hard.

    • Anon

      And, no, not too loud! They’re lovely. But memorable…so you can’t wear them everyday!

      • Mindy

        I have these, and if they go with my outfit, I wear them every day. because I keep them in my office. I wear my heels when I want to, but if I need to zip around the office, I wear these. (I commute in different shoes because I’ve discovered work flats just get beaten up on NYC streets)

        Also, you may want to size down 1/2 a size with M. Gemi because they stretch quite a bit or I’m just experiencing feet shrinkage this summer.

    • Shopaholic

      I think the easiest thing to do is start off with some conservative outfits – so grey/black/navy sheath dresses, suits, silk shells (I favour jewel tones but this depends on your colouring) and pumps (or structured flats if you’re more comfortable in flats). I would also get a blazer or two that are sold as separates.

      You can work interesting pieces into your wardrobe over time but I would start with the basics because you can mix/match.

      What’s your jewelry situation like?

      • anonymous OP

        I don’t really wear jewelry. I have faux diamond studs that I wear pretty much every day and a plain gold wedding band. I also have a tiny diamond nose stud, but I’m assuming that needs to come out. Or should I ask someone about that, and if so, who should I ask?

        • DC Anon

          I would take the nose stud out until you have a sense of what your office environment is going to be like. I’ve worked places where none of the partners would say anything directly to an associate about something like that, but they’d mention it to each other and would be less likely to take that associate to a client meeting.

          • anonymous

            How would I know if it’s the sort of place where someone wouldn’t say anything to me about it, but would still have an impact on my opportunities? Do you think the nose stud is more acceptable if I’m south asian?

          • Anonymous

            I would take it out, no matter your background.

            Here is the thing about consulting… You need to dress well, but not too well; you need to have a personality, but not too much of a personality; etc.

            People (clients, colleagues, people you meet… but clients especially), judge you and make decisions about you based on how you look and what you say. Mention that ski trip to Aspen to a client? Be careful, you don’t know how they perceive that (you are paid too much, firms fees are too high, didn’t work on Friday and that’s why a footnote was missing from analysis). This is especially true when you are junior. Think about how people could perceive a noise stud and assume the worst (that is the judgement call the partners are making).

            There is a certain art to master on how to dress, what to say, etc. in consulting, which takes some time to learn. In five years, you might put your nose stud back in, or be greatful you never wore it. You will also have some credibility that enables you to toe certain lines.

            I would suggest start as bland as possible, and then work your way to identifying where it makes sense to show some of your personality (e.g., nose stud, LV bag, slightly more dangly than normal earrings, etc.).

          • Anon

            I’m South Asian too, have worked in consulting. I’ve seen more established folks (e.g. after a couple of years of establishing their reputations, or mid-career) who are able to do things like this. I’m planning to get me a nose stud also for my 40th bday! But no longer in consulting, and will have made my reputation at current company. Can you wear something inconspicuous (skin colored?) for a bit and see how the culture is?

    • Anonymous

      Don’t bother shopping until after you start. A lot will depend on your local office culture, and also your client culture. If you end up at working at tech companies, you’ll regret buying a lot of business casual clothing because you’ll be in jeans everyday. And if you end up having clients in banking, need to have a wardrobe that’s 100% suits.

      If you want these shoes then buy them, but don’t do it because it’s essential to your new wardrobe.

  4. Dallas Area Recommendations

    I’m traveling for work and am going to staying about a mile away from the Addison Airport later this month. I’ll have a car and some time to get around. Does anyone have any recommendations for sight-seeing, places to eat, anything else ….? Thanks!

    • JayJay

      Addison has a ton of restaurants – some chains and some not. Don’t be put off by some of the strip malls, there are some hidden great places there. Kenny’s Woodfire Grill is really popular but they have awesome food. I can’t remember the names, but there are some awesome Thai and Vietnamese places in Addison that I’m sure you can find on Yelp. Ida Claire and Neighborhood Services are two really, really good places with thoughtful food and awesome drinks.

      If you’re willing to drive downtown, the weather should be nice in late October and I’d recommend some time at Klyde Warren Park. There are several restaurants on the park (Savor and Lark on the Park) that are worth a trip. The Nasher Sculpture Center is also a really cool museum with a wonderful outdoor patio/display.

    • I live in Dallas!

      Hi! I live in Dallas. You’ll be in an area that has tons of restaurants and you’ll be near the Galleria mall; in about a month, the Galleria’s Christmas tree might be up. That might be a fun thing to do after work, for example (I don’t know where you’re coming from, so this may be completely uninteresting to you).
      Restaurants: Mughlai offers excellent Indian food; Whiskey Cake is a bit north of Addison (further into the suburbs), and has very good food.
      – The Dallas Arts District is a nicely walkable area in downtown and includes several art museums and concert/show venues. There are a handful of restaurants down there; Proof & Pantry and Tei-An are the only ones I’d recommend.
      – Trinity Groves is just south of downtown (across a bridge), and has a bunch of cool restaurants (and easy parking!). You could have dinner there, and then walk across the bridge, toward downtown – pretty cool views.
      – The Sixth Floor Museum about the Kennedy assassination.
      – Uptown Dallas is a hub of bars, restaurants, some shopping, etc. In Uptown, I currently love Sprezza (need a res). Happiest Hour is a giant bar/restaurant, also with a winning rooftop and views. It’s one of the most popular spots in Dallas these days.
      – Lower Greenville is another cool neighborhood. I recommend HG Supply (paleo-friendly and an rooftop),
      or Gemma for dinner.

    • Alexis

      We also have good dancing, if you like that kind of thing : ) Swing on Wed. (Sons of Hermann) and Sat. (Sammons Center for the Arts) nights, two-step Thurs. (Cowboy Red River–only one I haven’t tried), Blues Tuesday (the Goat SUCH A DIVE), Salsa/Bachata/Merengue on Fri./Sat (Gloria’s, meat market and dress code…)…live music pretty much every night in Deep Ellum… Not that I have every night planned.

  5. help

    I heard myself give an interview about a program I CREATED and have run for years. It sounds like I’m guessing/asking permission and does not come across as competent or authoritative (even though I really thought I was speaking slowly, trying to eliminate upspeak).

    I want to correct his immediately, but I think it’s just how I’ve learned to talk, coupled with a real lack of self confidence in general. (I feel like i am less confident because other people seem less confident in me because of how I speak).

    I’m working on the confidence bit, but is there any coaching I can seek out for speaking? not just speeches, but just daily interactions/meetings?

    • Anon

      My husband is interested in something like this as well. Does anyone know if Toastmasters is actually any good? It’s available at his work, but is it worth it?

      It’s good you’ve identified this problem – best of luck to you in finding a strategy! Collegiate debate was the big thing that helped me speak confidently in front of others; maybe there’s some kind of adult equivalent?

      • overthinking this

        My aunt and cousin did Toastmasters for similar reasons and they loved it. They found it to be a very comfortable environment and got a lot out of it.

      • Samantha

        Toastmasters is great for this. I used to be in a group at work and it helped me speak more confidently.

    • Improv?

      Have you thought about taking any kind of acting or comedy class? I took an improv class a few years ago as something fun to do after a break-up and was shocked at how much better my public speaking got. Because the idea is to play lots of different characters, it becomes very easy to identify and eliminate, if you want, your speaking patterns. I found I also became much more confident. (Not saying this is you, but to anyone reading, it also did wonders for my general stress and anxiety levels.)

      • nutella

        This. Are you good at impressions? Picture a national news anchor and try to emulate. Or recreate Michelle Obama or Ivanka Trump’s voice in your head. I disagree with Ivanka’s stance with her dad but she has an excellent speaking voice. Also agree with the approach below to think of it like learning a foreign language.

    • Anonymous

      You can definitely get coaching for this. Just approach it as learning a foreign language.

    • Anonymous

      It’s the Way You Say It by Carol Fleming is a good start. She encourages you to do more of what you just did – listen to yourself talk to identify issues and then work through them. It is painful but useful.

      • Anonymous

        Outside of work, I’m doing this program to learn to teach at my hobby. They take videos of us instructing and make us watch and critique. It is straight up painful but it’s a proven technique to help teachers. Sigh.

    • New Tampanian

      I just ordered a used copy of Power Talk: Using Language to Build Authority and Influence by Sarah Meyer McGinty. It is available on Kindle as well but is no longer being printed. This is a book that Dr. Frankel recommends in Nice Girls Don’t Get the Corner Office.

    • Coach Laura

      I would seek out a coach and also suggest including Toastmasters as a way to practice and also to experiment with things that you will learn with your coach. Toastmasters is a very supportive environment and is a great place to get really comfortable with speaking extemporaneously even about subjects/ideas when not you’re an expert on the subject.

  6. anonymous

    I posted a couple of weeks ago about a coworker making comments about me getting divorced so he can marry me. He’s also said a slew of really racist, sexist things. I talked to my boss about it and he was totally on my side- creating a paper trail to enable firing if necessary, and had a talk with the guy. He asked me to let him know immediately if this sort of thing continued. So that’s good. But this guy doesn’t really get along with anyone and has created an environment of drama on our team that previously got along fine. I’m not really sure what to do here. I don’t really want to get involved- I just want to do my work and go home. Right now my plan is just to avoid any necessary socializing at work where he happens to be present. Is there really any other/better alternative?

    • Blonde Lawyer

      Personally, I think you should continue taking part and if he makes an unwelcome environment (says anything sexist, racist, harassing) you report him and get him fired. If you let him go to these things while you pass them up you are only hurting your own career. Your boss is on your side, they just need some more to fire him. Let the guy dig his own grave.

    • Wildkitten

      Document everything inappropriate he says. It’s fine to want to do your work and go home, or to go to socialize and ignore him. You can do whatever you are comfortable with and whatever you want do. If he is saying inappropriate things to another co-worker in particular, you might suggest that your boss talks to that coworker as well about documenting his offensive statements.

      • Blonde Lawyer

        And exposing you to stuff he is saying to or about other people still counts towards hostile work environment even if the behavior isn’t directed to you. You might want to get a free consult w/ an employment law attorney to learn the specifics of your state and have that in your back pocket when dealing with your boss.

    • Anonymous

      Not really. Just like every dog gets one free bite, every sexual harasser seems to get a slap on the wrist for the first report.

      Luckily, it seems that your boss might be looking for a reason to fire him. Keep records, have witnesses, report everything.

      Don’t worry about getting involved. He did this to himself. He pulled you in. Reporting him is part of your job.

      Let him stop socializing. Don’t play the victim. If he’s a bully, he’ll take that as permission to continue. Or maybe you do that…to speed things up…

      • Sydney Bristow

        Hmmm, that’s interesting. I remember a thread here that might have been several years ago now where people commented on their responses in the moment when they were witness to talk like that. It was a fantastic thread with some great examples of women standing up.

        The interesting thing about the article to me was at the end when they say that research shows that people who are optimistic that the racist/sexist person can change over time are more likely to say something in the moment than those who are pessimistic about the ability to change.

        • Anonymous

          What do you do when it is the boss who is making these comments? I worked for a university department. We got a new manager. He laid off everyone who was 40 + and/or female. When he laid me off, his comment to me in front of co-workers was, “I want young, quick guys.”

          This policy affected several of us. I tried to get the group together to go after him but the other people involved didn’t want to pursue the matter for one reason or another. I should have still gone after him on my own. But, I was finishing up a Masters Degree, breaking up with my very long term partner, and was headed towards homelessness. I didn’t have the time and energy to go after the arrogant jerk too. Now I wish that I had. Universities are quite strict about inappropriate behavior from staff. I, well all of us, let him get away with it, to my unending regret.

          • HQB

            It is probably too late to pursue legal action, but you can still make a report to the university; if he has shown any problematic behavior since (or shows any in the future) your report will show it is a pattern of behavior and make it more likely he’ll face consequences. You can make this report to his current workplace, even if he has switched jobs – there’s a big problem in academia with people leaving bad reputations behind, so you could help make sure his reputation matches reality, wherever he is now.

          • HQB

            Actually, I don’t know if it is “probably” too late for legal action. It may or may not be. But my main point is that even if it is (or if you don’t want to go down that route) there are still things you can do.

  7. Anon

    How do you deal with jealousy? Lately I am experiencing intense feelings of jealousy for friends and acquaintances. One got promoted faster than I did. One has The cutest baby. One travels alone and has the coolest experiences. And one just met the love of her life and is so blissfully happy.

    I want to be happy for these people, but sometimes it takes all my energy to try to be happy for them while suppressing the jealous feelings. Already in therapy and it helps, but I still don’t feel anywhere near my best self.

    • LondonLeisureYear

      Have you tried journaling and writing down your blessings? someone suggested here The Five Minute Journal and I really find it helpful, and you might find it helpful for aspect of jealousy.

      Just remember everyone’s life is not as glossy as they make it off to be – everyone has struggles and issues.

    • January

      Take a break from social media. Find something you can do to help with the feelings of envy. Hang in there.

    • Anonymous

      When I’m happy with my own life, I’m much better at dealing with jealousy. Is there something you can do to feel good about yourself? Even a little goal like 20 mins walking a day might help.

    • anon

      When I feel like this it’s usually a sign that I need to change something in my life. Am I intensely unhappy with my job? Do I need to take a vacation? Make travel a priority? Find a new hobby? Exercise more?

      There have always been and will always be people who have things that you want, but presumably you haven’t spent your whole life feeling jealous like this. What’s going on in your life now that is triggering these feelings?

    • all about eevee

      Hey, this comment probably isn’t very helpful, but I just wanted to say I totally understand how you are feeling. I get very, very jealous every time that someone gets engaged or buys a cute house with their partner, or graduates from graduate school. Not going on Facebook as much has really helped me.

    • Walnut

      Sometimes when I’m envious about someone’s awesome vacation or weekend activities, I remind myself of just how much joy I get out of lazy weekend mornings with a cup of coffee.

      This past weekend I indulged in a lot of coffee, took four long walks with my dog and puttered around my lawn doing fall cleanup. I didn’t post any of it to social media, but it was my perfect weekend. I need to remember that next time I think I should do more, see more, be more, etc.

      • Anonymous

        I have a good job/was promoted fast, have a cute baby and travel. And I am extremely jealous of your calm cup of coffee, four walks, and dog. So there’s that :)

      • Lorelai Gilmore

        And besides, if you take a beautifully staged picture of the heaps of fall-colored leaves on your lawn, or the steaming mug of coffee, or a selfie of you and your dog, you can post it on Instagram and everyone will be jealous of you and your beautiful life that looks like a lifestyle magazine.

    • Anonymous

      Yeah – why are you jealous? Do you never go out and do things you think are cool? Some of the things you are jealous of are probably attainable for you. I bet you could go have an awesome trip alone.

    • Lily Barthes

      I struggle mightily with this and have for years, maybe always?

      Ymmv, put part of what helps me is to aknowledge that I have in fact been dealt a shi**y life hand and it’s legit to be bummed about that. (I tend to be most jealous of people’s awesome childhoods / teen years/ parents /sence of rootedness or geographic identity bc I was raised by people who were abusive af). Lots of folks who I really respect have recommended making grattitude lists but I have found doing so makes me feel worse.

      What also helps me a bit is to knuckle down on the things I’m excited about and to be hyper social with folks I don’t already know. I feel better about myself when I’m pretending to be the person I wish I was. And then I end up actually being that person! I have lots of really cool hobbies/ skills now!

      +1m to limited social media.

      I also realized that I had a few aquaintances who were intentionally stoking envy and were hurtfully socially competitive. I avoid them now. I like that they don’t know much about what I’m up to bc no social media, too.

      Less proudly, at times I give myself permission to opt out of situations that stoke intense jealousy even when my friends are not intentionally being jerks about their happiness.

      • SuziStockbroker

        My parents weren’t abusive af, but definitely emotionally abusive (one has narcissistic personality disorder), and this is where any jealously I have stems from, too.

        Parenthood has been actually very healing for me on this. I have this whole other opportunity for a healthy mother/child relationship. It has also been remarkable for my self esteem overall. I know I am a good mom, and my kids know for sure that I love them.

        My takeaway from this lesson is that we get to invent and re-invent ourselves all the time.

        Kudos to you, Lily, for re-inventing yourself into the person you want to be, and to OP for being self aware and seeking help on this.

        • Lily Barthes

          Great takeaway.

          I spent a lot of my teen years and early twenties desperately wanting children so I could rewrite the narrative of my own childhood as you describe here.

          I’ve probably aged out of that option wh is has been a major point of sadness/ jealousy for me as even my friends who are younger than me start to have kids if they want them. But I’ve been really stoked to notice that the most acute of those feelings have started to abate on their own recently, even as my other life stuff is going not so great.

          OP part of the solution might also be time?

          • Inside knowledge

            Time, yes. And enough sleep. And exercise. Schedule fun things for yourself so that you have something to look forward to in the months/years to come.

      • Anon

        As someone in a less intense version of your situation (emotional abuse, untreated depression for decades), I want to re-iterate that your ability to come this far is something to be proud of. Many people in your shoes do not, and some of the people whose lives you are looking at would not have been able to do it either if born into your circumstances. Resilience is an important quality, and it helps to put life into perspective.

    • Senior Attorney

      I don’t know if this will help, but everybody has ups and downs. Right now I am in a huge up (see “met the love of her life and is blissfully happy,” above). I’ve actually had people even on this s!te say they’re jealous of me and I totally get why. (Sometimes I feel jealous of myself!) But it came after a really crappy upbringing and two horrible marriages and a crushing career disappointment or two. I know for a fact that nobody would be jealous of any of that.

      Also: A big +1 to take your happiness where you find it, even if it’s not Pinterest-ready.

      • Lily Barthes

        Yes to ups and downs.

        I’m not sure I’ll say this right but I know people have been jealous of me or disliked the idea of me during phases of my life when my extroverted response to despair meant I had a very active social life and some cool but underpaying jobs. I was sortv a rising star it girl for a minute there and I got weirdly ostracized by some powerful women in my community because their partners had crushes on me. Or these women suspected their partners had crushes on me. It was very painful. Sometimes I’ve wanted to tell these women: noooo but I’m broke af and my parents do not even like me, this happiness you see me having rn was incredibly hard wrought! Also I don’t like your man and I’m not hooking up with or even flirting with him! Please don’t refuse to eat the food I bring to potlucks!

        OP, it sounds like you are already doing an awesome job of not projecting your bad feelings on your friends or begrudging them their happiness which is 2/3 of the battle. You do get to be bummed about not having some things that other folks are enjoying, that’s completely fair.

    • Meredith Grey

      I feel like this too and it helps to practice forgiving myself for actually being jealous to start. Like others have said, there are some things that are just crappy and it’s comforting to remind myself (and have my therapist remind me) that it would be normal to feel jealous of those that don’t have to deal with said crappy circumstances.

      I also try to remind myself that others who aren’t dealing with this don’t have it on their radar so there is an element of unknowing (or knowing too) envy stoking going on out there. Recognizing it’s not an overreaction/over sensitivity on my part helps to move on to trying to avoid/ignore it (social media breaks, blocking certain ppl, etc.).

      When I do experience joy and happiness, I try to be mindful, pause and savor it.

      All of this is easier said than done for me.

    • Anon

      When I get jealous about some one, I recognize and accept I am jealous. I allow myself to be jealous for a day or two. I don’t fight the feeling, I don’t engage with it too much. Then I tell myself that I am done(actually tired) being jealous, I get back to my normal self. It has worked for me so well. I used to feel so guilty about being jealous, but now that I have a way to handle it, I don’t feel guilty if I am jealous.

      I also keep thinking how lucky I am to have all the things I have in my life even from the simplest of things. Say for example, the other day we went to farmer’s market and brought some fresh organic vegetables. I felt so lucky that I have access to good food. It was cold and raining a lot this weekend where I live. We went out to do our weekend grocery shopping and when I came home to warm apartment, I felt so grateful that I have a warm place to live. This keeps jealousy at bay because I keep remembering that have lot of good things going on in my life.

    • Anonymous

      Flip side – how do you deal with jealous friends? I get snide comments from one when I spend time with another. This jealous friend is insecure in general so I try to ignore it, but I am finding the comments petty and annoying.

    • CMC

      About a year ago I had an intense jealous phase with my best friend and did not know how to handle it. Someone here (I wish I remembered who!) posted that they say the following to themselves when they feel jealous and it helped me tremendously. I keep it as its own Evernote note and occasionally glance at it and it helps all over again.

      “Oh, that’s just a status threat we all get with friends. It’ll pass.”

  8. Lynn

    Is it worth it to get a dress lined? Last summer I bought a DvF dress that I loved. Two weeks later, Duchess Kate bought it and it sold out. I haven’t worn it, tags are still on–I didn’t feel comfortable wearing it because it was everywhere. This summer I realized it was completely see through! Can I get it lined, or should I just ebay it? I still love it, but it’s not wearable for me as it is.

      • Lynn

        It’s the blue and white dress she wore on some trip or other. I just googled it, and it was 2014. I probably could wear a slip, I just hate them. I would rather get it lined if that’s even possible.

    • anon

      What fabric? If it’s silk or jersey or something then no, you’re probably not going to be able to get it lined. If it’s wool or tweed or something with more weight to it then talk to a tailor to see what can be done.

      • anon

        +1 – It is hard for me to image a sheer fabric that would be easy to line after the garment is made. Anything with stretch (knits) and/or fitted is going to be more complicated. Woven fabric in a relatively simple (fewer pieces), not-formfitting silhouette would be easier.

    • Anon for this

      You may find this constricting (you could size up) but this seems like a job for a Spanx bodysuit type thing with shorts. I would find a skirt slip annoying under a slippery fabric due to sliding issues, but would happily put a nude bodysuit under a slightly sheer dress.

  9. Anon

    I typically would not re-post but was hoping for a couple of more responses since I posted later in the day.

    I work at a small firm. I am getting increasingly stressed out about what seems like a dim future at my current firm. I am a 4th year and have gotten great bonuses and reviews since I have been here. However, they keep firing senior associates- basically because they thought they were too top-heavy. Doesn’t seem like the partners want to make anyone partner, or counsel, or keep people on long-term.

    I feel like now is the time for me to try to lateral somewhere and maybe have a long term future. I feel like I am trapped which is ridiculous considering that it sounds like I’m doing all of the right things yet I’m somehow getting too ‘senior’ after only working for 4 years.

    Anyone have any advice? I don’t want to make the wrong move but I also don’t want to wait around until I’m a lame duck.

    I know someone mentioned they chose the wrong firm to lateral too and I was hoping people with any advice on what to look for, what not to look for in a lateral firm would be great.

    • Keep your options open

      I think it is time to start looking for the next thing. You see the writing on the wall. I was in a similar position as a second year and got out. Right after, the firm ended up breaking up/spinning off into other firms. It was total chaos and it would have been a lot harder to find a good fit if I was part of that fire sale rather than voluntarily leaving. My career track looks a little different now. I went from a 50 atty firm to a 7 atty firm. I get way more autonomy though. I handle my own cases normally and occasionally serve as second chair for a partner. I’m not on a normal partnership track but I don’t have to deal with any of the usual law firm bs either. I am much happier.

    • Anonymous

      You’re at a perfect stage in your career to lateral. Just make casual talk with people when you see them – what do they like about their firm, what’s the culture like, etc. When you hear about opportunities, ask questions of others you know who have worked there.

      Lateraling is hard if you need to move quickly. I needed to move so I didn’t ask enough questions and frankly, didn’t know what to ask. I moved to a firm that made it extremely difficult to work remotely, which was really important to me, but at the time, it never occurred to me that attorneys were given desktops instead of laptops (as one example).

      Since you’re happy but see the writing on the wall, I would just look carefully and take your time.

  10. DC Anon

    Need some NYC restaurant advice for a Saturday night in November. There’s 6 of us and we’re staying in the Village. Price point is roughly $100/person including alcohol. We’d like something not too white tablecloth — more hip with good food and interesting ambiance. I’ve been spending a lot of time on NYT and TimeOut trying to triangulate a restaurant and haven’t been able to come up with anything that I feel good about… A lot of places like Little Owl, Minetta Tavern, etc. are booked up or don’t take reservations.

  11. overthinking this

    What types of skirts or dresses can you wear repeatedly?

    I prefer to wear dresses or skirts to pants, but right now I have a couple pairs of work pants that are black or grey or parts of suits. The dress code here is business casual, so I can wear them with different tops, different color jackets or cardigans etc., and it doesnt look strange to wear it repeatedly.

    If I had plain black/grey skirts or dresses would it be noticeable to wear them repeatedly? I’m thinking about how I can wear grey pants today and if I wore the same grey pants next week no one would notice, but they might notice if it were a dress.

    • Cb

      An exercise for you…. think about a co-worker who you see regularly. Take out a post-it note and write the last 5 outfits they wore. Stumped, right?

      I am fairly observant (haircuts, changes in routine, pregnancy or illness) and the only reason I’d notice repeats was if it was incredibly distinctive (bright orange dress, pink shoes) and even then I’d assume that they were wearing what they love.

      • afds

        Yeah I realized I have no clue what my coworkers wear. One women wears interestingly patterned pants (in black and grey) and I still couldn’t tell you if she wore that pant before or not.

    • BabyAssociate

      What do you mean by repeatedly? Wearing the same dress/skirt once or twice a week? Definitely not noticeable. Several days in a row? Possibly noticeable.

      • overthinking this

        Twice a week. Like I travel for 4 days at a time, and sometimes bring 2 pairs of pants and a dress and re-wear the pants.

        • BabyAssociate

          I think you’re fine. I couldn’t even tell you what I wore last week, much less what any of my coworkers wore.

        • Anonymous

          Totally normal to wear the same skirt twice in one travel week. I see many people re-wearing dresses as well, especially if it’s simple and black and styled differently on the two days (e.g., blazer one day, scarf the next). I would not re-wear a dress in a color other than black or gray or with very distinctive details, unless you are meeting with different groups of people. I also wouldn’t re-wear the same item two days in a row, partly because it will be more recognizable and partly because it needs to time air out between wearings.

          • Macademia

            This is the best news I’ve had in ages! I’ve had the idea I had to wait at least 2 weeks to wear a dress again. My dresses are a little flashy though. I re-wear skirts and pants more frequently since they tend to be plain.

      • Wildkitten

        I’ll wear the same black pencil skirt several days in a row. Nobody cares.

        • SuziStockbroker

          I am wearing the black pencil skirt I wore yesterday today. Today with a blazer, yesterday as a suit.

      • H

        Probably fine. The plainer the skirt (or pants), the less noticeable. A simple solid black or grey a-line or pencil skirt would not be noticeable.

    • Sydney Bristow

      I have a few black and gray pencil skirts and wear them every day. They are totally basic so I just think of them as my uniform. I have no idea whether anyone notices. I certainly can’t remember what my coworkers wear.

    • Sloan Sabbith

      The only time I notice what my colleagues are wearing is if I absolutely freaking love it or want it. I could probably tell you a few outfits a colleague I’m close with wore, but this is in large part because I make an effort to remember them because I love them so much. Also because we own a few of the same distinctive items (either I bought it after she wore it or she bought it after I wore it) and I don’t want to twin with her…

    • the gold digger

      I work with almost all male engineers.

      I wear the same clothes every week. Nobody notices. Nobody cares. I love it.

      (PS Mostly black leather skirt, blue leather skirt, orange skirt, white t-shirts, black t-shirts. Leopard print heels.)

      • Wendy

        +1 love leather skirts and Leopard print heels. In that environment, they may not care, but I’m pretty sure they notice. LOL

    • Anonymous

      Nobody notices or cares. Do you remember what your coworkers were wearing last Tuesday? I don’t.

    • Meredith Grey

      ::Happy dancing in my seat::
      Due to some recent weight gain, I had to buy more a few more pieces but being optimist that I’ll eventually deflate, I refused to buy more than 4-5 pieces and have been so so so worried everyone has noticed. Thanks for all the comments on this. Seeing how few people care about repeats is a game changer for me!

    • P

      This reminds me of a story from when I was an extern law student in the chambers of a federal district judge. The male clerk, who was approaching the end of his year there, had worn only two suits the entire year, alternating one suits each day. I didn’t notice until he mentioned it at the end of the summer!

    • Anonymous

      The CFO at my company once told me that he has 5 suits. They’re all bespoke, and he wears each one once a week. He bought them all 2 years ago and has been doing this for years and no one has noticed. I certainly didn’t until he told me.

      I will say that I sometimes notice when someone is wearing something that’s both unique and new, but as for how often that person wears that item, I couldn’t tell you.

  12. Anon

    Posting what may sound like a humblebrag but I promise it’s not. Over the last year, I’ve gotten really into weightlifting. I like it because it helps prevent injury, I like being strong for whatever different sports I might try, and I like being strong in every day life. The downside is that now — I have a number of beautiful silk work shirts, and a few blazers, that no longer fit because they are too tight in the arms. My vanity makes me want to stop lifting — not only because I’m saddened about losing clothes, but because I think that slim arms are just more attractive overall. Any thoughts?

    • anonymous

      Lifting is awesome! Don’t stop! Plus, I respectfully disagree that slim arms are more attractive. I find well defined muscles very attractive. Do what you enjoy, and buy clothes that fit your needs.

    • Lynn

      I hear a lot of this in the climbing world. For me, I’ve decided the best thing is just not think about it, to the best of my ability. This is because it honestly doesn’t matter what I do, I will never be 100% happy with my body. So why think about it? Maybe I could make my arms less muscular, but that won’t change my chest size, and I’ll always have bulky calves. No matter the sport, no matter the diet, there will always be SOMETHING I wish was different. So I’d rather have bulky arms and do a sport I love (climbing) than slim arms, no sport, and a weird focus on some other body part.

      I have no idea if any of this makes sense.

    • anon

      It’s worth a trip to the tailor to see if they can be let out a little.

      I personally think muscular arms on women are very attractive. It’s hard for women to build upper body strength, so I’m always in awe of women who achieve some measure of definition in their arms. I’ve been lifting for a while and it still doesn’t really show even though I’m happy with my progress.

      • Anonymous

        I’d take them to the tailor and have them converted to sleeveless – you get to keep the shirt and show off the arms :)

        I actually doubt they can be let out much, since it’s probably a combo of the circumference of the bicep as well as added breadth at the shoulder and sleeves tend not to be built with much extra fabric, but it’s worth a discussion with the tailor if you like the shirts.

        • Anonymous

          Another tip is that a tailor can lower armholes for when sleeveless is too tight, too.

    • anon

      If you like being strong, for God’s sake, be strong. If you had a daughter feeling this way, what advice would you give her? It’s also better for your health and bone density.

    • Anonymous

      Having a fun activity I enjoy is more important to me than fitting into J Crew or whichever brands assume that women have toothpick arms and narrow shoulders.

    • Helen

      Anon, this sounds like nonsense. You like being strong! Isn’t it better to try and get over silly ideas about what’s attractive on a woman than to lose a physical attribute that’s healthy and that you enjoy? I always think women with muscular arms look great.

    • Anonymous

      I’ve been an athlete my entire life and all I can say is welcome to the club. I’ve never considered not working out or avoiding Sports because of what of what it does to my body. It’s part of who I am.

      I have consistently struggled to find clothes that fit my arms and shoulders, as well as my bust. In the end I found that some brands just work better than others. I would suggest looking into the following brands as you reshape your wardrobe: Elie Tahari, Akris, Max Mara, Boss, Trina Turk, DKNY, Armani, Vince, Nanette Lepore, Classiques Entier. I also end up buying a lot of sleeveless blouses, although I’d honestly prefer sleeves.

    • pugsnbourbon

      I lift too and it can be tough to find items that fit right. If you’ve got shirts or blazers you really love, see if a tailor can help. If they can’t be saved – well, you get to buy new stuff! I find that those “mixed media” tops work well for me. Stretch is your friend.

      I LOVE my big ol’ arms. When I see other muscular women I think, “wow, she looks awesome – where does she work out?”

    • Mindy

      I’m totally with you. I genetically put muscle on as soon as I start lifting, but I like being strong too, so I just got back into it after not lifting for awhile and had the same internal struggle last week and decided I would just buy sleeveless everything and better knit jackets, etc.

    • Anonymous

      I remember feeling this way when I lived at the top of a big hill and biked everywhere because I had no car. My legs were amazingly strong after several months, and my pants started getting too tight. I bought new pants. The thing about muscles is that you can be bigger but still look great because of the tone. Own it!

      I also swim a lot, so I can’t win with arms and shoulders either…I’ve just accepted that I need to size up and then get the waist taken in on just about everything.

    • Anonymous

      Do not stop lifting!! And do not apologize for or hide your muscles!

      I had to get rid of some tops after I’d been climbing for a little over a year because the added shoulder muscle made them not fit anymore. I find sleeveless easier to wear than sleeved because of fit issues, but sometimes it’s just that the shirt/dress is not designed for bulky shoulders and I just can’t wear it. It can make shopping frustrating, but my arms and back look d*mn good and should anyone challenge me to a pull up contest, I’ll probably win.

  13. Lyssa

    I’ve got a Saturday in Nashville with two little kids (1.5 and almost 4) coming up. Looks like gorgeous weather. Any suggestions for fun things to do and/or interesting restaurants to try out (don’t have to be super-kid-friendly, just won’t be bothered by kids)?

    • overthinking this

      Oh I’ve been in Nashville for work! Centennial park is nice to take kids around, check out Music Row on Broadway – some are bars but there are restaurants with live music that are really fun. If you go on I believe 14th street you can try taqueria del sol, Frothy Monkey. You have to eat Hot Chicken – I liked Hattie B’s.

    • Lilly

      Kids and adults like “dragon park” (real name is Fanny Mar Dees park but no one calls it that) it has a very large, very long mosaic sea monster that goes in and out of the ground. The mosaic pictures are fairy tales, historic figures and scenes, pretty scenes, etc. Google for images, its hard to describe. It’s a couple of blocks from the Hillsboro Village and Vanderbilt areas, and there are great coffee shops and restaurants within easy walking distance. It is a very safe area of town and walking with the kids is fine.

    • Nashvillian

      The Nashville Zoo is also really nice for a morning or an afternoon. It’s not huge, but it’s super little kid friendly and they have a great playground. If you go to the Dragon Park, I would recommend McDougals in Hillsboro Village for chicken fingers (great for kids, plus they give kids mini-cups of ice cream after the meal).

      • Nashvillian

        Oh, and not actually Nashville-proper, but this weekend is Pumpkin Fest in downtown Franklin, which is super kid friendly (costumes, pumpkin decorating, candy, and inflatibles).

          • Another Nashvillian

            Downtown Franklin will be great this weekend. Downtown Nashville is crazy with tourist – see my post below. Arrington Vineyards in on my list for this weekend. It is owned by country music star Kix Brooks and is so beautiful. It is kid friendly since it is just picnic tables, tree swings and acres of hillsides. Bring your food and let the kids play while you drink wine.

    • Nashvillian

      Nashville Farmers Market/Bicentennial Park. We just spent last Sat there with our kids. We planned to walk around the river and do Lower Broadway family style but it was way too crowded with lots of events going on. Instead we spent a couple of hours at the downtown library and the kids has a great time. There is also a zoo and Cheekwood Botanical Gardens but both will be really busy with Halloween stuff this weekend but would be fun if you are up for it. Tons of pumpkin patches and local farms too if you want to do that. The Frist has Italian cars and the Lane Motor Museum is another good car place if you are into that. My husband is a car guy so our kids have been there too. Tons of local neighborhood parks and events if you will be outside of downtown.

  14. Cb

    I’ve always had bad motion sickness** but it seems to have gotten worse in the past month – now even my morning bus commute leaves me feeling green for an hour or two. If it was the summer I’d consider walking but it is 4 miles and is quite dark at 6:30 (when I’d need to leave the house). Any tips? Do sea bands work? I eat before I leave and don’t read on my commute. In general, it doesn’t feel like I’m going to throw up, more just unease and queasiness.

    **Nope, not pregnant, or if I am, it’s too early to be causing nausea. But it does seem to get worse in the two weeks before my period (progesterone related maybe?)

    • Anon

      Maybe try to switch up what you eat in the morning to something more bland.

      Are you taking a BC pill in the morning? that used to make me feel nauseous. Now I take it at night.

      • AnonMN

        If you are TTC and taking a pre-natal because of this, those always made me nauseous as well, especially at my cycle mid-point when hormones were fluctuating. Taking it at night with dinner helped.

      • Cb

        Normally not until 6 weeks? It’s been going on since mid-cycle so before I could have even been pregnant. My period is a few days late but has been erratic lately, 30 day cycles since going off the pill, and then 34 days and 28 days the last two months.

        • Anonymous

          Yeah! It’s been the way my mom has diagnosed pregnancy in all my friends. Are you an otherwise healthy woman experiencing morning nausea? Are you having unprotected sex? Yup. Knocked up. Especially since you’re late and trying. It can absolutely start before you miss at all.

          No idea if you’re really pregnant but sounds like you could be.

        • rosie

          I don’t think it’s crazy to think pregnant, but it’s not like knowing that you were pregnant would make the nausea go away. I would just treat the symptom & take a pregnancy test if you want to–there are some drugs that you shouldn’t use if you are pregnant, but it does not sound like you are thinking of going the medication route (and of course there are drugs that are relatively safe to take for nausea in pregnancy).

        • Betty

          Mine generally hit at 5 weeks, or about the time I noticed I was late, with both pregnancies.

          • Please clarify

            Three weeks past late period, three weeks after ovulation, or three weeks from last period? It’s my understanding that pregnancies are counted starting at your last period so the day you miss your period you are 4 weeks pregnant if I understand it correctly.

    • af ds

      Are you on BC? If you arent maybe it could help if you’re saying its connected to your cycle.

    • ck

      Don’t read on the bus. I used to be able to tolerate it, but now cannot. It is awful, as now I have to spend my commute on the train staring…. it is too loud for me to hear my podcasts.

      Do you have a history of migraines? Motion sickness is what they call a “migraine equivalent”…. something more common in families with a history of migraine, and seems to correlate with migrainers. Have you been more headache-y lately?

      • Nancy Raygun

        The migraine connection is a good point. I have a history of migraines, and though they’ve tapered off, I still have motion sickness all the time. One thing that helps me is to eat more than I think I need to in the morning. I eat lots of snacks so I never get very hungry and I stay hydrated. Also, I have chronic sinus problems (when a doctor looks into my nose or ears, it’s so inflamed they can’t see anything). I’m used to it, so it doesn’t feel like having a cold, but sinus inflammation near the ears can lead to motion sickness. Using a steroidal nasal spray actually helped alleviate my motion sickness. Seeing an allergist gave me that idea.

        • Cb

          Thanks folks! Some good places to start here (and I’ll take a test if my period hasn’t arrived by the weekend). I do have a history of migraines and also had a bout of labrynthitis last year so perhaps that’s recurring. You have to be dying to get an appointment with the GP so I’ll keep an eye on it and try the recommendations above.

          • ck

            Also, people with migraines can also have “dizzy spells” (actually, vertigo spells) that are also really migraines…. even without headache!

            So part of me suspects that your bout of labrynthitis last year was actually a “migraine”. Labrynthitis is actually a clinical diagnosis – meaning you can’t prove it, but ?presume that is what it is if the story seems consistent. But since you are a migraineur, keep this in mind, in case it recurs. That can mean that using a drug for migraines (eg. tryptan) may actually help a vertigo spell.

          • Godzilla

            If you have labrynthitis, I would DEFINITELY get that checked out. See if you can do those PT exercises that are supposed to help with it.

            As an aside, my friend got hit with a labrynthitis flare when we rode the London Eye and was miserable for the rest of our trip. My sister managed to diagnose by text and friend was like OH YEAH I HAVE THAT (me <– not pleased that friend wasn't prepared to handle her medical conditions on vacation but that's another story). I made sure that she took allergy and sinus meds which helped manage her symptoms (specifically, allegra/fexofenadine and pseudoephedrine). It definitely helped her.

    • rosie

      SeaBands don’t work for everyone/all nausea, but they are worth trying. I picked some up from the drugstore when I was having random nausea for a few weeks and they helped, and I have found they will sometimes help with pregnancy-related nausea. Make sure you get the placement right. You can also press the buttons for 10 sec at a time to pulse the acupressure point for additional relief while you are wearing them.

      You could also consider having bland protein & carbs for your breakfast and adding in some protein at night before bed. PB crackers work well. Banana PB smoothie if drinking is more appealing than eating.

    • Blonde Lawyer

      I use queasy beads from etsy. They are pretty beaded bracelets that look like a fashion choice but have a big glass bead that works the pressure point like sea bands. I bought them for a cruise but use them for other travel.

      Also, when I stopped taking this pill I experienced a lot of nausea during my cycle for the first few months, particularly in the morning and I was not pregnant. It was just my hormones working themselves out.

    • AIMS

      CB, yes to those little wrist bands. They sell them in drugstores. I don’t think they do that much in cases of real motion sickness but are great for exactly what you describe. I have a friend who moved to a hilly, windy road town in California that swears by them.

      • Emmer

        But a warning that others may think you’re pregnant if you wear them often! Take them off when you get to work :)

        • CMT

          Or wear them for 9+ months straight and then everybody will know it’s not because of pregnancy.

    • woozy and sniffy

      If it is sinus related, the meclazine tablets put out by dramamine (there are two kinds, you have to read to find the one with meclazine) seems to take care of my frequent vertigo … due to severe allergies. They are chewable, but I just swallow them. The pharmacist sells me a bottle of generics for far less than the brand name. My internist is on board with it. They last about four hours for me.

    • Always motion sick

      For non-drowsy motion-sickness relief, try meclizine (brand name is bonine). In pharmacies, there is usually an overpriced pack in the aisles but if you ask the pharmacist, they usually have a 100-pill bottle behind the counter for $7-$8.

      Eat a bland but filling breakfast. I like oatmeal with cinnamon, chia, and raisins (no sugar). I noticed a decrease in motion sickness once I started taking a vitamin drink (e-mergency) with breakfast.

      Try eating ginger in some form. Ginger candies, tea, or cookies work best for me.

      And no reading. If I need to keep my hands busy, I have no problem knitting when in motion.

    • CMT

      Do you take vitamins in the morning? If I take them too early in the morning they make me pretty nauseated.

    • Anon.

      Not sure if you’re still here, but if you’re TTC it could be the prenatal vitamins. I became extremely nauseous taking those in the morning, switched to evening, and have had no problems since.

    • anonymous

      I had a B6 deficiency once, and I remember they told me that my motion sickness would improve with supplementation. (It did improve for me.) I imagine it only helps if deficiency is the cause of the motion sickness!

  15. Complaints

    If you were a manager, would you want to know that one of your subordinates calls you a racist when speaking to their peers? I have a coworker who is bitter about getting passed up for promotion and constantly goes around saying that it’s because she’s X. She’s clearly an under performer so I really don’t think this is a race issue. However, I also don’t think it’s my place to bring it up.

    • Anon

      Nope don’t get involved. If underperformer is really that bad and is running her mouth the way you describe she will most likely get the boot somewhat soon. If asked directly about her I would not hold back too much, but I would not offer your opinion unsolicited.

    • Anonymous

      Yes–also, do you work with me ;) I think this is going on in my office at this moment.

    • bridget

      You may want to talk to HR and company counsel.

      Even if she’s wrong, she could sue – and defending that costs the company money. Your reputation is on the line (being called racist is not exactly a lot of fun and does not improve people’s opinion of you).

      • Emmer

        My impression is that the OP is not the manager, just a co-worker who is aware of the statements about manager. If OP was the manager, a sit-down with the employee is definitely due to ask her why she feels this way and to explain the presumably legitimate reasons she was passed up for a promotion. As a co-worker though, there is not much she can do unless asked about it by the manager.

  16. Anon

    Do you colleagues/peers talk about money? What do you say? Or do you politely nod along and not say anything?

    In a newish job where my peers talk about money openly. They were talking about the 401k match and it comes out in conversation that most/many don’t contribute up to the 7% match, let alone up to the 18k max. I found that kind of surprising for a bunch of 30 something lawyers — sure there are loans, but there aren’t houses or kids yet either. They were almost looking for everyone to be in agreement that 18k is crazy and even 7% is a sacrifice. I tend not to agree since I’ve had 18k drilled into my head since graduation, and yet not wanting to discuss – I just kept shut. Are you surprised by others’ views of money?

    • anonymous

      I’m in government and was really surprised to hear my 30 something coworkers say that they don’t save anything except TSP. Some people put in the max (5%), but a lot of people don’t. Apparently they don’t think they need to save any more than that. Most of them spend a lot of money on happy hours, weekends out of town, buying lunch every day, etc, so it’s not like they couldn’t save more. I didn’t say anything, but it did surprise me.

    • ck

      I almost never talk about money (my family NEVER does), but this I might comment on since it doesn’t directly mention how much money you make, but addresses more of a life management strategy.

      A lot of people haven’t learned good money management skills, even well educated lawyers. So if I knew these folks well, and felt I could pull it off without being preachy, I might mention that it was “drilled into me since graduation” (maybe mention by who?) to go for that free money so that you try to save as close to the max match as possible. Then make a light hearted joke about wanting to retire early and move to Indonesia.

    • Wildkitten

      We do. I’m really open with talking with my younger colleagues about how to best use the benefits we are offered. In my current (temp) job we are paid minimally and talk a lot about budgeting and saving money.

      • Sydney Bristow

        When I was temping everyone talked money because we were all in the same boat.

    • Diana Barry

      Huh, weird. I am also surprised on your behalf! But I run with a frugal crowd. ;)

    • Anonymous

      In the five years I’ve been paying into my 401k, in one of those target retirement investment accounts, I’ve made practically nothing in return. Compound interest on practically nothing is still basically nothing. Now that my employer doesn’t match it just feels like feeding money into a savings account with lousy interest. Meanwhile I’ve had loans accumulating at 4-8% interest. That math just doesn’t add up to support sinking even more of my income into a 401k.

      • Anonymous

        Also yes, in my previous job where we were all about the same age we did discuss these things. I’d say it was 50/50 on who actually contributed and largely depended on student loans/kids.

      • Anon

        If you haven’t made anything in the last FIVE years, there is something wrong with the fund you’re contributing to – either its composition or expense ratio or both. You realize the S&P was up 20-21% in 2013 alone, right? And then another 11-12% in 2014? And that’s without dividend reinvestment — you’re looking at ~30% and ~15% with dividend reinvestment in just those 2 yrs. So why not get out of the target fund and get into a straight S&P index fund — most 401ks offer one?

        • ck

          +1

          Take a look what the heck is going on with your account. Look for Vanguard funds, index funds.

        • Liz

          +2 to this and to the comment about checking how much you’d save on your tax bill.

    • nutella

      Mostly nod along, but I work on a very small team that is open about these things and was surprised a while back when one asked the other what the taxes on his house were and another asked another one how much he paid for his wife’s engagement ring!

      • mascot

        Real estate records of annual taxes and purchase prices are public information so I would be too off-put if someone asked me that.

    • Anonymous

      I never contributed to my 401K when I was in Big Law. No employer match. First I was paying down my 7% loans, then I was saving so I could buy a house in cash. Now I’m saving tons of money for retirement but even my 401k is not getting interest that is even as high as mortgage interest would be so I dont regret paying off loans and house before saving for retirement. If you’re the type that pays off you loans and house and then wants to throw all the excess cash at travel and clothes, it won’t work. But some people are frugal and really can delay saving and then save more aggressively.
      Not contributing to get the max employer match is stupid though. You’re just leaving money on the table.

      • Anon

        I don’t get this whole – my 401k isn’t making a return or my employer doesn’t match – line of thinking. So if you were a biglaw associate in 2013, you’d be fine not contributing — and missing out on a 20%+ market gain, just bc your employer wasn’t matching you another 3% or whatever? And I realize not every yr is at 20% but if you don’t keep money in, how do you take advantage of the up years?

        • Anonymous

          In the years I’ve been contributing to my 401k I’ve never gotten more than 2% return (before fees). Mortgage interest is more than that and loan interest is way more.

          • Anon

            Where the heck are you putting your money?? Are you sure you are in an S&P fund or one that is supposed to match S&P returns? Are you overly concentrated in things like small cap or international – bc while those returns are promised to be good, they never are unless you are the type that follows market trends enough that you know when to re allocate. I mean the S&P last yr only made about 1% WITH dividend reinvestment and I still made 3%+ – not counting my own contribution or my employer match.

      • Anonymous

        Not contributing to get the advantage of more pre-tax money to invest is stupid.

    • Sydney Bristow

      We do. Not necessarily with specific numbers, but my coworkers and friends and I discuss finances generally. Most of us have big student loans. My coworkers and I all make approximately the same amount and have talked about the percentage we contribute to our 401Ks and whether we do Roth or traditional. Sometimes we talk about rent amounts, but that might just be a NYC thing.

      I’m super impressed you contribute the max each year. I contribute 6% and my employer contributes a percentage as well but throw extra money at my huge student loans. That’s what I’ve decided my priority is but I wasn’t willing to forego contributing to my 401K entirely so I do both.

      • Nancy Raygun

        A lot of my friends come from families where they either didn’t make a habit of talking about money or there was too little money to talk about. We talk about savings and finances as much as possible.

    • Always motion sick

      I talk personal finance with baby lawyers. When I was a baby lawyer, I really appreciated the advice so I consider it paying it forward. It is pretty basic: max out the 401(k) if only for the tax advantage, live like a student to pay down student loans, have an emergency fund with a gradually increasing balance, buy a house when possible for tax savings in my high tax state.

      I also add an explanation of how law firms compensate attorneys (Rule of Thirds) and how the firm I am at compensates senior lawyers (eat what you kill but weirdly set up–why senior people are leaving).

    • CountC

      I will talk about finances and money with anyone. I am very open about it. If someone asks, I will tell them what I make, what my mortgage is, what my SL payments are, what I contribute to retirement, etc. I don’t care for the veil of secrecy because I think it hurts us is in the long run. Maybe you need some help figuring out what market rate is and the salaries of your friends could help. Maybe your friend has some great investment or refi tips they could share but don’t want to bring it up themselves in case they seem braggy. I don’t start the conversation because I know it makes people uncomfortable, but I am always open if people want to discuss.

      I contribute 10% to my 401k and I have an employer match. I contributed when I was at a midlaw firm and I was paid into the pension when I worked in gov’t. I rolled over as appropriate when I left the various jobs. The only time I didn’t contribute anything to retirement was when I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do career wise and had a mix of odd part-time jobs and self employment.

      I know that not all of my friends are able to contribute due to SL debt and other priorities for them, but I also have a significant amount of friends who work in gov’t and pay into the pension program (I think automatically?).

      Anyhow, I am not surprised by much money-wise these days. Some people are great, some are good, and some are bad. Everyone’s priorities are different. *shrugs*

      • emeralds

        +1 to the first paragraph. The societal norm of not talking about money hurts us all. My coworkers talk about benefits pretty openly, but not salary so much (but that’s unnecessary since we all work at a public university and can just Google each other’s salaries if we’re feeling curious).

        My mom always talked openly about her finances with me growing up, which was hugely helpful–I knew basic personal finance in high school, knew how to handle my first credit card in college, etc. My SO, on the other hand, came from a family where money was never discussed, and sometimes I feel like we have to do personal finance 101 on a weekly basis.

      • DC Anon

        Absolutely agree. I similarly am very open about money but try to be sensitive to other people’s comfort level. In particular, I think it’s extremely helpful for women to talk to each other about salaries and salary negotiation. It’s much harder to plot out career path and salary advancement if no one talks about what the going rate is for different jobs, employers, positions, etc.

      • Anon

        Thank you so much for your openness! Part of what is frustrating (high SL, gov’t income) is that people do not always know what options are available to them, and how to maximize the benefits of their particular situation. Also, many people share their gains without explaining HOW they happened, and that’s the most important part.

    • Jdubs

      As a somewhat senior person at my company full of younger employees, I talk about saving for retirement to anyone and everyone who will listen. I feel like as the senior member of our team who understands what our 401k options through our employer are, it is sort of my duty to help them along. I am amazed at the number of people who don’t contribute at all even though we get matched up to 5%.

    • anon in SV

      In big law, our salaries are public info (thank you above the law), we all know what each other makes, and we collaborate every year to figure out the bonus structure since the firm won’t actually tell us. We talk about 401ks and flex spending and all that. It’s one of my favorite parts of this job, not having to be secretive about who makes what.

      I don’t talk about money outside of work colleagues and other biglaw lawyers though.

      • anon a mouse

        co-sign, but in gov’t, and all our salaries are public. It also helps my closest work-friends and I strategize about how best to advocate for raises or where to look for our next jobs.

        I’m a big believer that money should not be secret. It’s like food – some people have more or less, some people have different relationships with it, some people have different priorities. I learn so much from the way my colleagues decide on big purchases or navigate retirement (esp since several of them are decades closer to that than I am).

  17. FMLA

    Do you have to apply for FMLA? Is it a company-by-company process? Any hot buttons to be aware of, or is it as straight forward as the Dept of Labor website makes it out to be?

    Looking to advise a dear friend whose out-of-town (3 hr plane ride away) father was just diagnosed with stage four cancer. He’s not on his deathbed, but she needs to be with him, at doctors appointments, etc, as a course of treatment is determined. Her mom is in the picture and goes to appointments, but suffers from mental illness and makes her an unreliable advocate. I know her company meets minimum thresholds to qualify for FMLA.

    • CHJ

      You don’t have to apply per se, but generally HR will have a form that you fill out to officially give notice that you are taking FMLA leave. Also keep in mind that she can take intermittent leave (as in, she can take days here and there and doesn’t need to take all 12 weeks at once), which can be helpful when dealing with a parent’s illness.

      All in, her first step should be to talk to HR about what she needs and go from there.

    • ck

      Yes, it should be straightforward. She should contact the appropriate office at her work, and print out the online form. There’s a chance her workplace may have a form she will need.

      My brother did it when my Mom was diagnosed. I work in healthcare, so I filled out the form for him, but it doesn’t need to be perfect. No problem for him, but he worked in a government office.

    • New Tampanian

      HR department of her company would have the applicable forms. It is company-by-company process.

    • Anonymous

      It is straightforward, although your company does have to have 50 employees to be required to offer it.

  18. DC Steel

    I watched the SNL opening sketch this weekend and saw Kate McKinnon deliver the most amazing line ever: “Get real, I’m made of steel, this is nothing.”

    I was thinking about that line in the shower and thought that it would make a great mantra for dealing with crap at work, especially in law firms.

    • New Tampanian

      It was SO good… add in the “Hi girls!” and I couldn’t stop laughing.

      Very good matra for dealing with BS

    • CMT

      I loved that line, too and I was thinking the same thing!

      Kate McKinnon is sooo good as Hillary. I wonder if HRC watches. I bet she’d get a kick out of it.

      • Anonymous

        She does. In fact she appeared on SNL and they did a skit together. She (HRC) actually has pretty great comic timing.

  19. waffles

    I’m heading to Phuket, Thailand for two days in November (tacking it on to a longer Asia business trip). I’m really excited! I’ll probably spend a lot of time on the beach, but I would love any advice from the Hive on “must-see” spots. I’ll be staying at Patong Beach – is it worth a trip to Phuket City? Besides the beach, I am also interested in visiting some small local markets. Thanks!

    • MargaretO

      Thailand is in a national state of mourning with no partying allowed, government imposed curfews, everyone wearing black. It is really extreme and Thai citizens are not really allowed to discuss the matter openly. I would make sure that your plans for the trip are still realistic and strongly consider going somewhere else, I am a very adventurous traveler and would not go there at the moment. Sorry to be a debbie downer.

    • Anonymous

      Phuket is terrible. Trashy, drug-filled teenage party city. I would get out of town if at all possible. I went to the Phi Phi Islands, which are lovely, albeit touristy. Two days is not enough time to go there but I bet you can find something closer that is a different scene than Phuket.

      • Anonymous

        Also what MargaretO said about the mourning period for the king. This is really not the time to vacation in Thailand.

    • Anonymous

      I think you are fine to go to Phuket, I have friends who live there and in Thailand, and it’s not ideal, but not an issue.

      If if you do go to Phuket, I would avoid Patong at all costs. It is very young/party and the epitome of the touristy side of Phuket. Try Kata Beach, which is a lot more chill.

      Your hotel will likely have some options for excursions and I would go for those. A day trip to Ko Phi Phi or the James Bond island tour would be good bets. No need to visit Phuket town, and DO NOT go to any animal ‘sanctuaries’.

      I am not sure what you would be looking for in a local market. If you are looking for something that is not touristy, that’s not going to happen. There are shops everywhere, but they are more for tourists. The things that I brought home from Phuket a couple years ago that I really love are: fold over fisherman pants, a small bronze Buddha statue, and a chang beer tank top (which looks kick ass with jeans and a blazer). I picked up a couple table cloths as gifts.

      • waffles

        Thanks everyone, that is really helpful. I’ll be visiting in late November, so after the official mourning period. I’m traveling solo and really just want a quick beach stop after a long business trip, so I wouldn’t be too upset about losing the night life anyways. I really appreciate the ideas and advice and will take all of your comments to heart.

        • Meredith Grey

          I’m not sure if you’re set on Phuket already, but I went to Ko Yoa Noi, in particular because it’s off the beaten path, very quiet, and not a draw for wild party backpacker night life. It delivered and was idyllic. I can’t speak for whether this is true for Phuket, but in Ko Yoa Noi it seemed to be best to pick a nice hotel with good food ratings and a good pool & beach view and park it there or hire a private/semi private tour to kayak around the cliffs. I wouldn’t recommend a group tour, a tour that advertises a boat with alcohol served, or a day trip that includes taking you to a “private island.” I found this to pretty categorically be subtext for: party boat/party island/groups of drunk people.

          • waffles

            Thanks, I’m not set but I was thinking that Patong would be quicker/easier to get to than an island, given that I’m only there for two days. I understand that it won’t be as quiet or secluded, but I don’t think I can afford the travel time to get somewhere more quiet. Does that make sense?

          • Meredith Grey

            Totally makes sense, you will lose time getting to the Island from the airport. And the ferry ride was definitely not the most tranquil part of that leg of the journey! Sorry, I missed that detail in your OP. I do still stand by carefully considering guided tours! We did a “snorkeling” day trip and we were on this piece of sand that had 1 restroom (20baht to use) w/o working plumbing. The coral was not preserved and had been trampled over and there were 5 party boats blasting music docked there too…

          • long time lurker

            along these lines if you are wedded to patong due to distance issues, i recommend staying at the amari phuket. it is off the beaten path away from the “action” of Patong – a 10-15 min walk or quick tuk tuk ride and you will be in the center of the crazy bars etc (patong beach is on the way). the amari had its own (but little) beach and nice pool and snorkeling area. and the hotel is lovely with a nice restaurant/nice bars. the Patong beach itself i found just “ok” …. it is true the nightlife area is a bit of a “scene”.. as in a LOT of older western men with thai teenage girls. that said there are some live music cover bands that are pretty entertaining. perhaps that will all be toned down in light of the mourning, but the whole patong scene was really not for me for more than one night.

            as for phuket town, did a day trip there and there was some good shopping (better quality scarves, fabric, jewelry than in other parts of thailand) – but if you only had two days i don’t think its worth it.

    • Anonymous

      I was there this summer. I did a night in Patong on Bangla Road………………………………………………………………………………… I’m in my late 20’s and was there with a group of friends. It was an experience.

      We stayed at the Hilton Acadia, near Old Phuket Town. Phi Phi is cool and worth doing – we did a speed boat day tour the hotel set up for us.

      • waffles

        This is all super helpful. Thank you all so much. Regarding the day trip to Phuket City, I’ll probably see how much energy I’ve got after the business trip… lying on the beach for two days might be all the energy I can muster. The comments above regarding guided tours are definitely noted. Thank you guys!

  20. Philly area keratin treatment rec

    Someone last week asked for a recommendation for Keratin/Brazilian treatment in Philadelphia. I go to Lilly at Ricochet in Center City and LOVE her. I have had the treatment from her twice and have nothing but great things to say about it.

    • anon

      Can you tell us what your natural hair texture is like, what your texture was like after the treatment, and how long it lasts? I have naturally curly hair (not super tight curls, but curls nonetheless), lots of hair but each hair is fine, not course. I’d love to be able to blow dry my hair more quickly and not have to straighten it.

    • Anon

      There’s something about her that I find pathetic. And no it has nothing to do with her husband issues which I don’t follow. A grown 40 yr old woman who is HRC’s handler!? She honestly can’t find something more substantive to do in the campaign besides carrying HRC’s hand sanitizer; paying for her Chipotle; researching whether HRC’s grandparents are/are not immigrants; and working out her schedule so she doesn’t get trapped with aggressive donors and has a moment for a snack break??

        • Anon

          I’m pretty sure a big portion of her job IS being HRC’s handler including keeping her on schedule and making sure she shakes the right hands and doesn’t get her time monopolized by donors at events.

          Not sure why people are so obsessed with Huma.

          • Anonymous

            Right. And that’s actually a hugely important job that isn’t about hand sanitizer and snacks. It involves policy, strategy, analysis and being a real important contributor. Minimizing her role is absurd.

          • all about eevee

            Sorry, but you’re wrong about Huma’s role in the campaign. She is not merely a “handler”.

      • Anonymous

        Wasn’t she HRC’s deputy chief of staff when she was Sec State? I assume a deputy chief of staff does a lot more than carry hand sanitizer. My only frame of reference for Washington is Veep but I feel like people are saying she’s Gary (body man) when really the role seems more like Amy (top advisor, most trusted confidante).

      • mascot

        Not pathetic to me. It’s not a lack of ambition to find a niche and be really good in that niche. As a small scale example, I worked with a woman who had spent her part of her career as the executive assistant to a bank president. Some parts were intellectually challenging and some weren’t. She was very candid about how that role played to her strengths (smart, organized, discreet, level-headed) and she took pride in being very good at it. The loyalty flowed both ways. When there was a re-organization and she lost that role, her boss made a few calls and she had her pick of job offers within days. I get why people need good executive assistants/handlers/external hard-drives.

        • Anon

          As someone who has thus far…not had a career path as such, but has found myself to be pretty good at being an assistant (not an admin assistant: something different than that–not being more specific, as I don’t want to risk outing myself), I appreciate your view.

          Some of what I do is indeed getting lunch and occasionally putting money in a meter or the like. But then there’s also the research. And the writing. (And more.) The more “intellectually challenging” parts to the job.

          I find it tough to beat “loyalty flow[ing] both ways,” these days.

          Anyway, since this is not at all the direction in which I saw myself heading professionally, but I actually enjoy the work I do, when I work for the right person, I just want to say thank you, mascot.

      • CMT

        I think I get where you’re coming from. I know that being the institutional memory and the “external hard drive” is vastly important and that her role is much greater than being a Gary to HRC’s Selina Meyer. But it’s also not a role I personally would strive for. I think I’d rather be a John Podesta or Robby Mook myself.

        • asdf

          Yes I think thats a good way to look at it. The article itself says she doesnt do much strategic stuff. The amount of info she knows instantly is extremely useful and impressive, but still.

  22. afds

    Any suggestions for using a standing desk? I have the chance to use one initially and am wondering if there is anything I should keep in mind.

    • Emmer

      Get a mat to stand on, it helps your feet get less tired. Don’t be afraid to take sitting breaks. If you have a hard time motivating yourself to stand again after a while of sitting, tell yourself that you will raise your desk again the next time you stand up (e.g., after returning from a bathroom trip). Or if you’re on conference calls a lot, make it a “rule” to stand (even pace around!) during calls.

    • Liz

      Using a small box/ball/fidget bar (see “Deskbound” by Kelly Starrett) is really helpful to get your back out of extension when you’re not used to it and prevent you from getting fatigued early.

  23. MoneyPenny

    In light of the thread above re: discussing money with your coworkers, wanted to post about a related topic. We’re buying a house in a HCOL area. It’s more money than we wanted to spend but the math works and it will be a house we can grow old in. A surprising number of people at work and elsewhere have asked what we’re paying for the place, how much the taxes are, etc. Needless to say, this is very uncomfortable! How do I politely deflect? So far I mostly say something like, “oh,we got a great deal!” but some of these people then follow up with “oh yeah?” and wait for me to volunteer the price. One older woman I work with actually said, “so how much???”

    How can I mention our good news without actually discussing the financial particulars? Also, we had some family help with the down payment – is this something you would share if you’re discussing this with friends? I feel deceitful leaving this bit out since we wouldn’t be able to do this otherwise but I also just generally hate talking about money with anyone.

    • Anonymous

      You never have to talk about money, but if you’re discussing it with close friends I’d mention family help.

    • Anon

      At work, why can’t you say “I’d rather not say”? Why can’t these people just wait and look it up on redfin or wherever when it closes?

      For your friends, if you want to share that your parents helped, go ahead. I personally wouldn’t unless you are CERTAIN it won’t lead to your friends making sideways/offhanded comments to you or raising petty jealousies for yrs — i.e. we’d love to send our kids to that school to, but OUR parents couldn’t help with the down payment we’d need for that town etc.

      • MoneyPenny

        I guess I could say that but it feels rude or even evasive somehow. I know it’s acceptable to be a little rude in response to what is itself a v. rude question but we have a collegial atmosphere here and I would rather not be so blunt. Maybe I can say something like, “oh, I’d rather not say – I still can’t believe we decided to make such a major financial commitment and am trying not to think about it”?

        • Senior Attorney

          That seems a little juvenile, though, doesn’t it?

          It is evasive but the whole point is you WANT to be evasive!

          How about “sorry, that’s on a need to know basis!” and wink and laugh and change the subject.

          • CountC

            Exactly. You WANT to be evasive. There’s not a great way to do that here without coming across as that being your intent. Your coworkers are going to make their own assumptions based on the fact that you don’t want to tell them. Some of them may go look it up later, but likely they’ll just forget about it.

            As for friends, I would have no issue telling them I had family help. That is extremely common in my age group these days. I got a little bit and I don’t feel at all ashamed about it. Similarly, I paid for my car in cash with money I got from my grandmother’s estate, and I make no bones about making that clear. It’s not a fancy car, and it wasn’t expensive, but I assure you that people would wonder how I paid for it when we talk about buying cars/car payments, etc.

          • MoneyPenny

            I don’t know that I want to be evasive so much as I want to avoid a conversation with my coworkers that strikes me as really personal. Especially because they often just ask in an elevator or break room or wherever and so I’d be sharing with whoever is in earshot too. I think you’re right about the friends though. No reason not to share if we’re talking about it.

      • Sarabeth

        Disagree on the advice not to tell your friends. Are your friends terrible? If so, get new friends. Otherwise, be honest. I would 100% rather have a friend tell me that she got help from family, rather than wondering how on earth she managed to save 200k in five years (or whatever the figure is). The truth is actually less depressing, because it doesn’t leave me wondering why I can’t do the same.

    • Anon

      There are definitely people in my circle who have gotten family help — think $4 million apartment in Manhattan where the couple’s jobs are a Big 4 consulting manager (not partner) + human resources for the wife. I.E. the type of thing where it just wouldn’t be possible unless someone helped. They have never once mentioned family help – though amongst their friends it is just assumed. I think it’s fine not to mention it, BUT I would NOT lord that house or that town or school district over anyone else. These friends act positively perplexed when any of our friends decide to leave Manhattan bc it’s too expensive once you have 2-3 kids who need to go to school. Seriously they’ll say — but why go to NJ, I simply don’t understand, you can get a 3 bedroom apartment here. Um – bc not everyone can afford a $3 million apartment plus private school at 50k/yr for 3 kids. THAT seriously annoys the rest of us who want to say — well my parents aren’t putting $2 million into me buying an apartment so I guess NJ it is.

      • MoneyPenny

        Oh my gosh, are people really that rude/dense? No, my goal in life is to never ever do anything of the sort. In fact one of the completely ridiculous “cons” that I listed for this house was the fact that it would “feel” nicer than I was comfortable with. I can’t imagine ever being so tone deaf about a multimillion dollar apartment.

        I don’t know, I guess I am having “imposter syndrome” with this house. If that makes sense.

        • the gold digger

          We were visiting friends whose 29 year old daughter was also visiting. Daughter lived with parents at the time because she did not want to pay Bay Area rents. She is an engineer and makes good money. Has no student loans. Parents paid for everything for college.

          I said something about having seen jeans for $150 a pair and wondered who would pay that.

          Daughter answered, “Once you’ve worn the good designer jeans, you’re never going back!” (She wasn’t joking – I had spent enough time around her to know she had NO IDEA what it was like not to have money.)

          I wanted to say, “If I were making $100K, had no debt and had never had any debt, and paid nothing to live with my mom and dad, I might pay that for jeans.”

          Except I wouldn’t. The barely-worn jeans at Goodwill for $7 a pair are fine for me.

          • Anonymous

            She’s not wrong, $150 jeans are likely much nicer than $7 Goodwill jeans. I think her comment was a little different, she’s not expecting every person to be wearing them like it’s NBD.

    • Anonymous

      I live in a HCOL area and it is pretty typical for people to speak openly about cost of rent or house purchases.

      It’s mostly because people are trying to stay to date on the market, so sharing information is helpful.

      For what it’s worth, I never feel like anyone is doing it to judge or make remarks, it feels pretty natural.

      • anon in SV

        Ditto. Totally normal here. How many bedrooms does it have, what are you going to do to it (gut the kitchen? who’s your contractor? leave all as is because now out of money?), how much are you buying it for, where did you get your mortgage and what rate did you get, how much of your offer is cash or equity (stock). The market is so, so competitive and moves so, so fast that it is really helpful to have up to date information. It’s almost like following a sports team here, it just so happens that the stats are interest rates and down payments, not runs batted in and power plays.

        • CountC

          Same here and we are LCOL. I just had a conversation about refinancing with a coworker of mine, which included original sale price, rates, appraisal value, renovations, etc.

      • Senior Attorney

        Yep. Super normal in LA.

        Funny story: Many years ago I was having lunch with some lawyers at my firm and a summer associate from somewhere in the Southeast. We were chatting as we normally did, and when there was a pause in the conversation he said “Wow. Do people in LA ever talk about anything other than real estate prices?”

        We all stopped, looked at one another, then turned back to him and said “Well, no. No we don’t!”

        • AIMS

          This is so strange to me. For those that say this is normal, are you having these conversations with coworkers in similar positions as far as salary and finances are concerned? I can see that being a little less awkward but I would think this would be very awkward if people have a wide range in salary and are sharing this type of info so explicitly. I think it’s different to talk about percentages like interest rate and down payment because that’s more like saying I contribute x to retirement, not I make X. And I realize a lot of this is public info now but I don’t feel like that makes it okay to ask. But maybe I’m in the minority.

          • Senior Attorney

            I’d say it’s less about how much we personally are paying than real estate in general. Like, I might say “Holy cow! You know that house across the street from me that was bought and torn down by developers and rebuilt into a McMansion? They bought it for two mil, listed it for 4.8 mil, it sat on the market for months and I see per Zillow that it just sold for $3.8 mil! I wonder whether they lost money on it?” (True story, BTW. Crazy.)

            That kind of thing is absolutely, positively, super duper normal. On a par with “How ’bout them Dodgers?”

          • Senior Attorney

            And generally I’d say yes, those conversations are with similarly-compensated co-workers. Or friends who live in not-super-dissimilar neighborhoods.

          • CountC

            All of the above. I have talked about it with similarly situated co-workers, friends who make more, friends who make less, professional “friends” around town, really anyone that wants to talk about it.

            I worked in real estate for a short time so I find it interesting. I am always interested in what is going on in my market at every price point. Also, for me, it’s kind of a duh moment that someone who makes $600k is going to be able to afford more house than me at $90k. It doesn’t bother me at all to have discussions about things I cannot afford. I am completely comfortable with what I make and how I spend my money, so hearing about giant houses, huge mortgage payments, taxes, or whatever, actually makes me appreciate my less expensive house MORE! Plus, again, I can look it all up (and do, see interesting above), so I don’t find talking about it to be a big deal.

          • anon in SV

            +1 it’s like following sports teams, except we’re all playing too, along the lines of a fantasy team. We’re all white collar, but with a very wide range of incomes. And we all are paying attention to the market, including what we all are paying for homes, what friends of friends are paying, and what homes in our neighborhoods cost. The income differential isn’t a huge deal, other than the fact that life isn’t fair and oh well. Some of us are well paid, some of us were blessed to avoid student loans, some of us lucked out on real estate, some work for unicorn start ups, some of us married well, and some have family money. We watch redfin/zillow because it’s sort of fun, sort of depressing. House p0rn is totally a pasttime here.

          • Senior Attorney

            LOL I saw A Prairie Home Companion live at the Greek Theatre a few years ago, and Garrison Keillor started his first monologue by saying “I love LA. In LA, every time people get together, they spend the first ten minutes talking about how hard it was to get there…” So true!!

          • Anonymous

            To be fair, I feel like traffic is the default ice breaker because there is nothing to say about the weather.

      • Anonymous

        For what it’s worth, it was the fact that my guy friends and I always talked about it (salary and hosting cost) that made me start to discuss with my female friends. Not sure if unwillingness to discuss (being polite) might be holding us back.

    • Meredith Grey

      When I was in this position, I felt really uncomfortable when people asked, but I found that people who asked were following the market and curious bc they had either just bought or were looking too. It wasn’t coming from a nosy/obnoxious place. In the end, I actually answered because this is public info. Anyone can look up how much the house is being sold for/what you end up paying on Zillow etc. BUT were someone to ask *how* we were affording it/could afford it, I would definitely NOT indulge that line of converation. Just no.

    • MoneyPenny

      Thanks ladies. Helpful to see the range of responses. I think we’ll share with friends and I will try to deflect the coworkers. I’ll endeavor to give them the benefit of the doubt but I still feel like this is a weird thing to ask about.

  24. Anon

    Ladies, I need some advice on a weird return to work from maternity leave situation. I am 100% WAH, and I was supposed to start ramping back up at work part-time this week. Well, my boss and I had actually discussed starting really PT (like <10 hrs) a couple of weeks ago, but now I'm at my official 3 month mark. We had discussed the outline of a project that would be a good way to get started back up, but we never came up with a final project and I don't have all of the information that I need to even generate a reasonable proposal. In the meantime, my boss has been MIA. I've been in touch with the one colleague who does similar work to mine, and he also says he hasn't been in touch recently with boss, but for now he has his own project that's wrapping up in a month.

    Truth-be-told, both my colleague and I are pretty sure that our department (currently just us two) will not be around for much longer. We were a new group, and it's become clear that due to some restructuring that happened after we were both hired there isn't a lot of enthusiasm for investing the resources needed to make our team useful and successful. I'm actually fine with that, but right now I'm in limbo. And I don't think it's fair to just de facto extend my unpaid leave because my employer doesn't have its act together.

    So given that boss is not responding to any of my attempts at communication over the past couple of weeks, how should I proceed? DH thinks I should send an innocent note to HR saying that my leave is over and I'm wondering how to reinstate myself. A friend says I should also CC boss, but she is concerned that it might come off as undermining him as well. Given the fact that the elephant in the room is that the likelihood is I will be laid off soon enough, should I somehow acknowledge that? I'm assuming they are nervous about how to handle me due to possible legal complications from my pregnancy, but I honestly have no intention of making that an issue. I just want to know what's going on.

    • Coach Laura

      I would email the boss one last time and make it clear that you urgently need instruction as you want your maternity leave to be over and want to contribute to a project. Use an intense question in the “Subject” line of the email (and maybe a read receipt notification). This will CYA for future questions about whether you really wanted to return if indeed a layoff is in the works. Then if you get no response, I think emailing HR will protect you in the best way possible and I doubt it will make the boss look bad – it may just look like you are returning from leave and want HR to be aware.

    • Anonymous

      ?WAH

      I wish everyone would stop using all of these abbreviations….

      Guess I’m old!

      • Anon

        WAH = Work-at-Home

        We are 100% remote, and our headquarters are in a different state (and time zone) than me. Boss himself is in a city that is a 3 hour flight away from me.

  25. Sydney Bristow

    The book that cbackson recommended recently called Lucky by Alice Sebold is on sale for $2.99 right not on Kindle. Just a head’s up in case anyone else was interested in reading it.

  26. Lord & Taylor warning

    Rant: I bought an ivory merino Lord & Taylor cardigan from The Bay last spring, wore it once, and put it away. I pulled it out this fall and took it to be drycleaned with my other sweaters as per the label (same brand, same drycleaner). When I got it back, it felt sticky–like there was a residue on it. I took it back to be cleaned again, and they cleaned it again but said that the fibres didn’t behave like wool, and it was still sticky (think hair where you haven’t rinsed out the conditioner). The other sweaters in other colours were fine.

    I contacted Lord & Taylor for cleaning recommendations, and their response was – so far as I can tell – to forward my email to The Bay, whose response was (paraphrased) “take it back to the drycleaner, it’s not our problem because we don’t accept returns on used or laundered items.”

    I’m livid. It was a $70 cardigan that I wore once (at my wedding!) and then cleaned according to the label directions, and the response from the manufacturer and the retailer has been, effectively, f*&% you.

    Any recommendations for cleaning wool that seems to dislike drycleaning? Or for other brands of 100% wool sweaters that are available in Canada and not $100+?

    • Anonny

      Woolvers, in the 40-70 range. They are excellent, leaps and bounds above lord and taylor. Plus no import and duties since the company is based from the UK, despite that the shipping is still fairly fast 5ish days for me. I always just hand wash mine, though the website says they can be machine washed

    • Anonymous

      I wash by hand in one of those wonderful shampoos for wool, that I learned about on this site. Eucalan.

      I never dry clean wool/cashmere anymore, except after that one bout with moths….

      I’ve definitely had dry cleaners mess up cleaning before, so this could also be an issue. I took my down pillows to a dry cleaner years ago, and when I picked them up they were sealed in plastic (odd…). When I took them home and pulled off the plastic, they were still wet in horrible smelling chemicals. I took them back and they tried to re-clean them, but they were totally screwed up, and smelled poorly afterwards.

      I realize you are upset, but $70 for the cardigan you wore at your wedding is a bargain in my book (!).

      • anon a mouse

        Absolutely Eucalan. Wool sweaters do not need to be dry cleaned. Sheep get wet!

        And check out Uniqlo’s merino sweaters. Good quality for the price.

    • Anonymous

      Hand wash it by swishing it in the bathtub. Spin it in a salad spinner or roll it between two towels to get most of the water out, and then lay flat to dry.

  27. Nati

    I have always been able to convince the Bay to take things back. Even laundered ones. Their customer service is very good in my experience. I’d try again.

  28. Libby

    Ugh, I didn’t get a job I REALLY wanted. They had really nice things to say about me, but ultimately went with someone else. However, I did get offered a job I don’t *actually* want, but I’m on a sinking ship and need to get off. It actually pays less and is in a different field I have no interest in. I’m telling myself its a chance to hone skills I can use in my actual field.

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