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Updated: Oct 6, 2021 292 Comments · by

Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Long-Sleeve Sheath Dress

The Personal Shopper (TPS) | ·

This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

If a clothing designer were to ask me what my ideal work uniform would be, without even thinking about it I could immediately respond that I’m looking for well-tailored, long-sleeved dresses with pockets, preferably in a bold color. When I came across this fuchsia number from Harper Rose, I felt like someone was reading my mind.

I would wear this with some simple jewelry and a snakeskin shoe for a great formal office look.

The dress is $148 at Nordstrom and comes in sizes 0–18.

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Workwear sales of note for 12.7.23

Our favorites are in bold!

Workwear sales of note for 12.7.23

Our favorites are in bold!

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About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. Anonymous

    I was the OP yesterday about feeling frustrated with a manager who won’t take no for answer and got lots of helpful advice around escalating to my boss. The problem is he is my boss, while I work for a different department we need to have a local manager. So I’ve raised it with my HO department and my department manager had emailed him and said I couldn’t do these reports, but he just phoned me to say he didn’t want to go back and forth with her and I should think how I can do them. She thinks it’s finished and I’m just not to do it but I suspect he’ll raise it again next week so I’m looking for tips on staying calm in the moment?

    • Cb

      It feels like he’s being a bully. That’s why he phones rather than emails, no paper trail. I’d send him a follow-up saying “thanks for your call. Just to confirm, you’ve asked for X…unfortunately Y…”, ccing the department manager.

      • Anon

        +1 “I don’t want to go back and forth with her” = “I know dam well what she is telling me but I’m going to ignore it and push you around.”

        Call your manager right now and tell her that he’s doing an end-run around her instructions. She needs to know this so that she can escalate to his manager.

      • Cat

        Yes this. “It seems like we’re not aligned on this so I’m copying in DM…

        • Anonymous

          This. Every time he calls you, document it in an email to your manager. He’s trying to do an end run and you need to call him out on it.

          • Anon

            This. Make a paper trail. Document every conversation, and sent it to your manager. And if for some reason you are not sending to manager, document and send to self.

    • Anonymous

      Practice your response. Figure out 2-3 ways to say the same thing and just say those repeatedly.

      “I can’t overrule my departmental manager’s decision on this.”
      “I understand that this issue is important to you but I don’t have authority to do that work.”
      “As departmental manager said, i’m not to do that work. Let’s talk about xyz.”

      It’s like you are trying to convince him that you don’t need to do these reports. That will never work and will not happen. He just needs to accept that you are refusing to do this work unless directed to do so by the departmental manager. You just need to be consistent in your response.

    • Cb

      I keep thinking about this. I can’t figure out why he is so obsessed with this particular task? Is it a mess he’s trying to pin on someone else? Is there something suspicious happening?

      • Anonymous

        I’ve used reports here rather than say what it actually is, but it’s something you’d expect a company to have a computer system to do, and every other company has one but we don’t so the only way to do it is manually. The department are unable to pay for a system so accept it’s something that won’t get done but he’s come from external and I think believe it’s important it gets done or it’s easy to do. There’s various people in my role scattered around and nobody does it as we don’t have the system for it.

    • Anonymous

      Omg same answer as yesterday. Tell your substantive boss this is not resolved and she needs to address again.

    • Anon

      The problem is really that he needs someone to do those reports and you work for him and you’re not doing them. If you look at it that way, what is he to do? Someone probably told him to get the reports done or assign them to someone. The bigger problem is that the org above you seems to be dysfunctional and someone telling him that you won’t do them doesn’t change the fact that it seems that they need to be done (or he wants them done — bosses get to be wrong, but they are still bosses). Above the level of this guy, your boss, and the woman who isn’t your boss who has said no, who else is there? And maybe identify someone who potentially *can* get this stuff done. At some point, saying no doesn’t fix the problem; fixing the problem fixes the problem and that is what will get you beyond where you are stuck.

      Also, I’ll say that jobs change. Your job might not be doing these reports, and maybe you don’t want to do them, but that also might be what your job becomes. Jobs are like that. You can be a tax person and work on X and then the tax code changes and you get to do something else or not have a job anymore.

      • Anon

        This is so beside the point. If that’s the case, then the departments need to work it out; he doesn’t get to unilaterally decide that someone who is not his DR is going to do this when that person’s manager has nixed it. You don’t just throw work onto people; at the bare minimum, you need to ensure that they have the bandwidth to do it and if not, hire more people, hire a temp, reshuffle duties, etc.

        • Anon

          Didn’t she say that he was her boss (I assume that means direct manager)? And then she supports a different manager, like she’s matrixed out to support some site? I find it confusing but I think the structure matters a great deal.

          • Anonymous

            She has two bosses it sounds like. One local and one in head office. The way she wrote it yesterday made it sound like head office assigns her work and local office is more the day to day manager. Yesterday she referred to herself as being a direct report of the dept manager at head office.

            Regardless, if there is more than one boss, there needs to be agreement between them on work tasks. One is trying to do an end run around the other. They need to sort it out for themselves.

            My DH is dealing with something similar currently. Local manager wants him to lead Big Exciting project and DH wants to do it, head office person doesn’t want to reassign other work to allow that to happen. They are meeting on and off to settle it but it’s not for DH to stick handle.

      • Anonymous

        This is good advice. Ultimately, the reports need to get done, and someone has to do them. Who is responsible for doing them? It will save you a lot of pain in the long run if you can help figure out how to get the reports done by someone else versus simply arguing that you can’t do them.

        I deal with this type of issue constantly. I’m an in house attorney and a lot of other departments try to push nonlegal work over to me and my team. I used to get take the same approach as you (simply saying no) but the work always circled back around. It’s been much more productive to:

        Say no, and redirect to the person who is responsible
        Say no, and offer to explain how to do the task to someone on the team who is responsible
        Say no, and direct to a third party resource who can do it
        Say no, but set up a meeting to figure out how this work should be managed moving forward

        • Anon

          Exactly. No is the beginning of the next step in accomplishing the task, not a way to be done with the problem.

    • Anon

      Maybe you should do the reports and deprioritize other work, if your boss is directing you to do them? Get the other manager and boss to agree to what gets taken off your plate but it sounds like maybe they need to be done after all? Maybe schedule a call between them and they can argue while you sit back and accept whatever the verdict is.

    • Anon

      I am confused. Is he or is he not your boss? You made it sound yesterday like he’s not but today you’re saying he is. Honestly I kind of agree with the above poster that maybe you should just start doing them, if he is your boss and he’s telling you to do them.

      • Anonymous

        With our company structure you need to have a local boss who manages things like signing off holidays and your development but since the department is mostly based out of head office it means for remote employees we get assigned someone out the local office who works in a different department.

        • Anon

          Who does your performance reviews, merit increase, promotions, etc? That’s the person you should consider to be the boss.

    • NYNY

      Is there a middle road you can take where you demonstrate your ability to problem solve? Offer to train someone on his team to run the reports? Then it won’t be your ongoing task, but he’s getting what he wants.

    • Anon

      If there isn’t a clear hierarchy then bring them together. I’d email both of them and say I’ve received instructions from A that I am to do these reports and instructions from B that I should not do these reports. I believe the only way I could do them is by not doing Z. Please let me know how you two would like to handle this; happy to schedule a call for all three of us to discuss.

      • No Face

        Your script is less adversarial than mine. This is probably better for most people.

    • No Face

      Oh look, a man who does not respect clear direction and communication from women. Shocker.

      I would email your department manger and copy the dude, saying, ” Department Manager, my understanding is that you discussed the XYZ report that Bob requested and determined that I cannot be the person to create the reports. Bob called me yesterday and asked me to do the reports again. Moving forward, I will not make the reports and focus on my other work, but if you have additional direction please let me know.” That way, your Department Manager knows exactly what is going on, and there is documentation.

      Then, every single time Bob asks about the report, you say “As you know, I can’t do that for you because of my workload.” Like a broken record.

    • Anonymous

      OP here. Thanks everyone so far lots of good tips for documenting things. I think practising what I’m going to say is also a good plan. Really it’s tips like that for when you know something might upset you, how do you keep calm in the moment, I hate the fact that I’m a frustration or anger crier and need to work on that bit!

      • Maudie Atkinson

        I think one answer, and one that commenters have offered, is that you simply don’t engage “in the moment.” You need to find a way to head this off earlier.
        Also, managers (direct and otherwise) like solutions, not problems. If you propose some options about how this gets done (with someone else doing it, or with you outlining precisely what the consequences for your other responsibilities are if you do it) of you doing it, you’ll likely have better luck than if you’re saying only that you can’t do it.
        Unfortunately, who is “right” here about where the responsibilities lie and what the proper resource allocation should be probably matters less than who is in charge.

        • Anon

          “Also, managers (direct and otherwise) like solutions, not problems.”

          The applicability of this is limited. Ultimately, they are the ones getting paid to manage the staff, workload, and funding, so it’s their job to find solutions to those problems. If you want other people to solve problems for you, take a pay cut and a title cut.

          • Anon

            This is great advice to follow if the OP wants to get pegged as a complainer/problem employee who won’t cooperate even when there’s a clear business need for her to do something to help the team. Part of rising in an organization is being able to manage up. Maudie is correct that many managers – who are busy and have their own problems – want people to come to the table with at least an idea of how to solve a problem. It doesn’t make the
            bad managers because they don’t want to perform the role of parent/babysitter and solve every issue for a grown adult that should have some problem-solving skills of their own. The OP not figuring out a potential solution for this issue can make her doing look like a complainer instead of a proactive problem-solver. If OP continues to refuse to do the work and also doesn’t try to come up with an alternative idea for how to get the work done, that will likely hurt how she’s perceived in the organization. This is actually a pretty great learning opportunity for OP, to learn how to negotiate a delicate situation with a person who isn’t being very reasonable. The skills she learns with this will likely help her in other situations in her career, if she chooses to look at it that way.

          • Anonymous

            I think it’s pretty widely applicable actually. At the places I’ve worked, middle managers and above are expected to bring options, and it’s usually better for the “doer” to have some voice even if the boss comes in with something entirely different. That’s usually how leadership potential is spotted and you get a bigger voice over time. The higher the boss, the less likely they are to understand the nuances of day to day challenges and impacts as well (I’m in media, and I rely heavily on opinions of our developers when I’m looking at integration strategy between systems , for example).

          • Anon

            I didn’t say to never solve the problem, which is the straw man you’re erecting and tearing down. Eventually, those up top are paid to solve problems, full stop. Yes, at all stages, part of being a good employee is to be proactive; however, there comes a point when it’s a manager problem. This employee is being bullied by a man who is not her direct supervisor, who is ignoring her direct supervisor, and is doing an end-run around that direct supervisor’s explicit instructions. It’s not on the OP to problem-solve her way out of this, any more than it would be on her to problem-solve her way out of a casting director who has an affinity for intimacy with ferns.

            I use that example because problem-solving the report matter doesn’t solve her ultimate problem, which is a dysfunctional org structure and a quasi-manager who is pulling a power trip on her.

      • emeralds

        After you’ve practiced your responses, in the moment I’d give yourself a slow inhale and exhale before you respond to anything he says.

        Also, if you do cry…you cry! I promise it’s not the end of the world. I’ve cried in front of every boss I’ve had (and two have cried in front of me). Take a couple of breaths, remind yourself it’s your body’s physiological reaction to stress and not an indictment of your character or professional skills, and be prepared to excuse yourself to the bathroom if necessary to pull yourself back together.

  2. Elle

    Those of you that have recently renovated a kitchen- do you have crown molding around the whole room? We’re about to start reno and I’ve noticed that none of the kitchen I see online have crown molding other than around the cabinets. Is crown not done anymore?

    • LaurenB

      I personally would do / keep crown molding, but my taste is more transitional than modern.

    • Anon

      We finished new kitchen in 2019, have crown around the cabinets and love the finished look. It is additional cost so it is not in everyone’s budget.

    • Cat

      Depends on how you’re finishing the walls. If you’re tiling up to the ceiling around the cabinet area, crown would look odd. If it’s painted walls, IMHO that looks fine without crown in online images, but IRL looks unfinished – like you will never have a perfect border at wall & ceiling!

    • AZCPA

      It also depends on your kitchen and house style. In my Sante Fe style house with vaguely industrial chic interior, crown molding would look ridiculous. If you are going with a classic or traditional style, crown molding will continue to look great, regardless of what Houzz shows.

    • Anon

      We have crowns everywhere but the crown on the cabinets is different than the crown on the walls. I like the contrast. Our wall crown is kind of fussy and carved so it would have looked weird on cabinets, and then the cabinet molding is larger and fits the cabinet style well. They compliment each other.

      I think crown is still done but there are a lot of houses that traditionally don’t have it.

    • Anonymous

      We have crowns but my house is historic and there was no way I was going to cheap out.

    • Anon

      We put crown molding in for the whole room, but we also had crown molding around every room. If it goes with your style, I think it looks a lot more polished to do the whole room.

  3. Orbitals

    Any recs for brands similar to everlane? Same price point, eco practices and a similar casual vibe is what I’m looking for, but maybe with a little more color/excitement or something different just so I don’t turn into a walking everlane ad…

    • Anon

      It’s the near absence of “my” colors that keeps me from wearing more everlane. I get it that it’s supposed to be neutral etc. but the colors that they do offer are … just not my colors—those orangey tones and sallow greens, not the deep, vibrant colors that are so saturated that they lean back into sophisticated.

      • Anon

        Saaaame. Also their complete pivot to casual. I’m not a boxy tee, boxy jeans kind of person. They used to have good work clothes.

    • Anon

      I like the idea of everlane but in reality there’s very little I actually like on their site. I’m not into super loose fitting boxy clothing.

    • Anon

      Follow the blog grechen’s closet. I don’t think she posts a ton any more but she at one time wore a lot of Everlane and similar brands.

    • Allie

      Amour Vert sounds like what you’re looking for. And maybe Eileen Fisher on sale? Or buy any brand used on sites like threadup and it will be even more eco than a sustainable brand new.

  4. Anon

    My upcoming new job is being really pushy, e-mailing me constantly to do set-up and prep work “to get ready for your first day” while I’m still in the middle of a regular work day at my old job. A manager telling me to “text him immediately” as soon as I get access to this or that system. I hope this isn’t a sign of boundary issues. The interviews had no red flags of this nature.

    • Anon

      I would actually welcome this (within reason) in order to hit the ground running at the new job, rather than wait a week while accesses get requested and set up. Hopefully it means they’re just proactive.

      • Anon

        Isn’t it a security risk and maybe also a legal risk to give someone access to systems when they don’t currently work for you? What if she has access to proprietary or sensitive data? Or behaves in a way that violates some training she was supposed to get but hasn’t gotten yet? It seems so disorganized and likely against the policies of any major corporation.

    • Anonymous

      Reply with “I’m not available until my start date.” And then don’t be available

        • Anon

          Maybe you’re a bad manager if you expect people to work before their start date? If this place is a competitor she may very well be forbidden to do the work while she’s still employed at her old job.

          • Anon

            I was assuming that it was normal new hire stuff, like getting the person set up on payroll and any forms, etc. NOT doing substantive work!

        • Cat

          Anything beyond extremely limited prep work is too much to ask before you actually start. (I’m talking about things like assembling your identity / tax documents being OK, not actually getting onboarded with system logins.)

          • Anonymous

            She said “e-mailing me constantly to do set-up and prep work “to get ready for your first day”. That does not sound like he is asking her to do real work before her start day and not get paid for it! Maybe the “system” he is asking her to text him about is the site where she inputs her payroll data!

        • Anon

          What even?! Maybe you need to rethink your managing, then. It’s completely normal to not be available to work until you actually start working there? OP, sounds like a red flag to me! Yikes, sorry!

        • Anon

          As a manager, you need to learn the legal and security risks you are taking if you ask someone to do uncompensated work for you while they are not employed at your company. That is, of course, in addition to the basic people skills of not asking future employees to work for free in violation of their current company’s policies and federal workplace compensation law.

        • Anon

          In this person’s defense, it’s the tone and curtness of the proposed response. There’s a way to say and do exactly that without being incredibly rude about it. This is OPs new boss, I’d try to get off in the right foot and a little friendliness goes a long way. Something more like “so excited for new job, wrapping up here at old job and should be able to get to new setup next week. Any hiccups you’re anticipating I should know about?” would be a lot better received than “not available until I start.”

          • Anon

            It would shock me if this advice were given to a man. We don’t actually have to drape our perfectly *rational* boundaries with emotional language.

          • Anon

            Well, be shocked, because I’d say the exact same thing to a man and I’d be equally put off by the rudeness regardless of gender. It’s pretty terrible advice to tell people to be rude in the name of feminism.

          • Senior Attorney

            Can’t imagine a man saying “So excited for the new job! :) :) :)”

            I’m not generally into apologizing, but I would preface “I’m not available until my start date” with something like “So sorry, but I’m swamped wrapping things up here at Old Job and…”

          • Anon

            You’re equating rudeness with refusing to put on layers of unnecessary happy-warm-fuzzy sandwich bread.

          • Anonymous

            I think this response—male or female—demonstrates much higher EQ. Biggest thing in switching jobs is usually building internal support. It’s hard to push for change if you don’t win over your boss and other internal champions. So you do want to get off on the best foot. I think others here are being a little shortsighted.

            You should push back. But I’d read the initial response as rude regardless of the new hire’s gender. Why do that if you don’t have to, especially over something so trivial like pushing back on this? True power is knowing when it best serves you to put on a bit of a charm—or not.

      • Anon

        Hey OP, please don’t do this. If they’re just trying to get your paperwork set up and your access to systems handled I’d honestly roll with it. I’d prefer that to my typical stating a new job BS where nothing is set up so they give me some sort of employee handbook/ policies and procedures document to read to occupy me while they try to figure out what to do.

        If your new boss is texting you too often, just don’t answer his texts right away. Sit on them all day and then answer them that evening.

    • Anon

      I’m job searching right now because my current job has burnt me out horribly. This type of behavior from the new job would send me running to the hills.

      • Brunette Elle Woods

        Same. I can understand administrative tasks before starting a new job but the urgency and expectation of emailing/texting immediately when OP has access is excessive. They should understand she still has a job and is likely trying to wrap things up and help whoever will take over her role. I’d be cautious of lack of boundaries in the new job.

    • anonshmanon

      It could also be a sign of a job with many layers of bureaucracy, where getting the tools to do your job will be slow as molasses, and your boss is already stressing about it.

    • Anon

      Yikes, the manager should be doing any prep for you.I would just reply saying thanks, I’ll keep all the instructions but I’m not able to start on the tasks until first day.

    • Anon

      This is interesting. When I have a new hire, I get their new internal email set up, and I send emails there. That way, I can send them updates as I have things set up (logins/software/etc) – but they do not dig into it until their first day.

      • Clara

        This is what my new company just did. When I got my log in on my first day there were about 50 emails waiting for me and things had started, but the most I did before my first day was start filling out some paperwork.

    • anon a mouse

      Any chance you are moving to a government agency? I had to take actions similar to this with our last hire — we really are a great place to work, but the onboarding process is a sh*tsh*w and I wanted to make sure it was taken care of before Day 1, otherwise there would be nothing for the new hire to do for a month or more because of all the cascading access privileges from initial setup.

      • Anon

        I’ve worked for both federal and local government agencies. It’s absolutely not protocol to do this; such a risk to grant someone access to the system before their start date.

        Sadly, I think I’ve always had to wait a week or two to get access to all of the systems, but the solution is not to make someone work on things before their start date.

    • Anonymous

      this is a red flag. my current boss did when I was still at my last job in the notice period and 24/7 availability and responses are expected.

    • It depends

      If it’s a large organization I don’t think this is odd, if it’s routine stuff like sending a pic in for your ID or making sure your email is set up. But if they are asking you to do actual work, like reviewing internal documents or attending meetings, then it’s odd.

        • AZCPA

          My current job had advanced prep, but it was stuff like submitting I-9, direct deposit info, etc. So things that made it easier on me when I started (so nice to get first paycheck DD vs a mailed paper check). But it certainly wasn’t “constant” emails like OP describes, nor about getting access to systems and having to manually confirm.

      • Anon

        I feel like you definitely shouldn’t be granting anyone access to systems (including email) until they work for you! Not a big deal to bring HR paperwork though.

    • Anonymous

      This is so many red flags that I would actually probably not even start the new job. I’ve had enough abusive bosses who text me and call me at all hours of the night on personal devices completely inappropriately that I will not tolerate any boundary crossing.

    • Audreycat

      I would never reach out to future employee beyond basic housekeeping. You’ve still got a job to do during your notice period, and if you’re being asked to “work” then you should gently but firmly set some boundaries with your new employer to ensure that you start off on the right foot.

    • Walnut

      Its possible different systems are initiating contact. In a pre-covid world, onboarding was simpler and all information funneled through the hiring manager, but now we have remote badging, fedex’d laptop through central IT, ancillary IT equipment my department funds to make your life easier shipped to you separate from the laptop, a login generated and emailed, separate vpn login/password, and on and on.

      In my org, you aren’t expected to do anything with any of this until Day 1 (and none of the logins will work until then) but it’ll feel like lots of stuff is happening. It definitely felt more streamlined when you showed up to new hire onboarding with a gov’t issued ID and left with everything situated.

    • Coach Laura

      I had a new boss like this and if I had to do it again, I would…run! He kept calling me and asking if I could start earlier than the 3 week notice I said I needed to finish a project. He called me at 9:30 one night. He texted me daily to ask if I had changed my arrival date. He wanted me to start the afternoon of my last day at old job. He was not rational. The first week I went for a walk on lunch hour and he asked if I intended to leave the office often: This was for an exempt management position supervising five employees and I was a manager with over 25 years experience. It is not common in our industry to eat at your desk regularly. He was a micro-manager to the highest degree. His meltdowns before I came on board were dwarfed by his hyperactive anxiety after I started. If I could go back, I would have rescinded my resignation from the old job, as I started job hunting 5 months after starting.

      • Anon

        I once accepted a job from someone who seemed a bit off during the interviews, but I have a very high tolerance for weird. He knew I needed to give two week’s notice; he notified me that my start date would be five days after the job offer. He then changed that three times, pushing it back, and finally tried to move it forward. Working for him was one of the biggest mistakes in my life.

    • Elegant Giraffe

      Lots of good advice above. The only thing I haven’t seen mentioned is that you are teaching the boss how to treat you. I wouldn’t be rude, but I would slow roll my replies to his texts. If he texts at 10 AM, I wouldn’t respond until 5 PM. Or more likely, I’d wait until I had a couple texts from him and then I would email him – “saw your text messages – I tend to be better with email – I can address X and Y but will need to wait on Z until start date.” If you establish yourself as a person that answers every text immediately, that very well may bite you in the butt later with an overeager boss.

      And FWIW I’m a seasoned manager, and I have never once asked a new hire to do anything substantive before the start date.

  5. Carrots

    My org just moved offices and we’re just starting to get into it. Since we moved out, I had absorbed all the items I had at my office back into my apartment, so now figuring out what I need to keep at my cube again. I’ve already got lotion, bandaids, phone charger, pads/tampons, and headache meds. But what other things do you keep at your cube that you didn’t think of initial, but have been a huge help?

    • cat socks

      Disinfecting wipes, hand sanitizer, extra masks
      Napkins, plastic utensils, snacks (if that’s allowed and you don’t have problems with mice, insects, etc.)
      In addition to headache meds, maybe some Tums or Pepto
      I wear contacts so I also keep eye drops, contact lens solution and an extra case

    • Anon

      Small sewing kit, including a safety pin. You hopefully don’t need it, but when you do you REALLY need it. Plain black t-shirt, folded and kept in a back drawer. Because sometimes you need to change your shirt. Dental floss or picks – when you need them you really need them. Same with tweezers.

    • Anon

      BlisterBlock. Sooner or later, you will wear new shoes (or old shoes that you have not worn since March 2020) and blisters will happen. Be prepared. I wasn’t, when I wore some old favorites recently—apparently my feet have forgotten how to tolerate anything but slippers and sneakers.

    • Cat

      Lip balm
      Nail file
      Tweezers (am I the only one who notices rogue face hairs in fluorescent bathroom lights?)
      My old glasses, contact case, and contact solution
      Deodorant
      Gum / mints
      Disposable toothbrushes just in case (stole a few from the pack I purchased for overnight flights)
      Nonperishable snacks or breakfast items (like granola bars)
      Water cup / bottle
      Stamps (living in the city I would always drop my personal mail in the box at work)
      Comfortable, neutral shoes
      Tissues

      • Anon

        Re: stamps, something I miss about going into the office was using their mail machine to stamp my personal mail.

    • IL

      Make sure you have your weather gear: an umbrella, a spare knit hat, spare winter gloves. I also kept few spare plastic bags from CVS or the grocery store for transporting wet shoes, dirty clothes, or unexpected restaurant leftovers. And makeup and hair supplies: concealer, mascara, an eyebrow pencil, a small brush and spare hair ties.

      I used to have a small mirror hanging in my office/cube as well as a pretty calendar.

    • ALT

      Hairbrush
      Lint roller
      Snacks
      Makeup pouch with chapstick, face powder, deodorant, toothbrush/toothpaste/floss
      Lotion
      Extra contacts
      Tea bags
      Alka-seltzer, Tums, pepto
      Small fan

    • anon

      I keep 3 small personal bags in my desk. One has feminine products. One has OTC meds, band-aids, and travel-size toothbrush, toothpaste, and floss. One has a few makeup items–I don’t wear makeup everyday, but I like to know I could swipe some on if an important meeting came up. Other than that, I keep a phone charger, Clorox wipes, hand sanitizer, and tissues around.

    • eertmeert

      Magic 8 Ball. Not even joking, it’s a staple of my office desk. I obviously don’t use it seriously, but it is a great conversation opener with new people, and fun to mess around with in non-work conversations. People love it, their eyes light up when they see it for the first time.

      In more day to day supplies, I keep lip balm, q-tips, floss, tweezers, small mirror, travel size hairbrush, bobby pins, nail file and clippers, extra set of headphones/ear buds, charging cord(s), my own plate and bowl.

  6. Williamsburg

    Williamsburg, VA recs for early November? Going on a quasi-babymoon long weekend. I’ve screenshotted Bacon pancakes’ post from 2015 on this, but I’d love any new recommendations as well!

    • Anon

      I think it would be most lovely then. Will be after Homecoming and before Grand Illumination, so probably not mobbed.

    • Anon

      Check at the Inn at Eagle’s Watch (.com) if you want to stay in a 1600s house – the inn’s about 30 minutes outside Williamsburg. It’s in a location close to the other James River Plantations if you’d be interested in seeing them.

      There are schooner sailing trips out of Yorktown.

      George Washington’s family’s original estate is also an inn – Warner Hall (.com) – though the house is sadly a 1900s reproduction. The family cemetery is original though!

  7. anon

    Beautiful dress, but lucky sizes only, sadly. Otherwise I would pull the trigger!

  8. Anon

    Any recommendations for a good black cool-weather dress? Like a lightweight wool twill, lined, like all of the great ones they used to have at J. Crew, but maybe not so tailored (I just don’t love sheath-tight things now, more of a drapey shape) but with long sleeves.

    • Anon

      Wool twill is not likely to be drapey. It is a structured fabric. For drapey, I would go with merino wool knits.

    • PolyD

      Talbots has wool blend dresses, knit ones, that are softer than a twill. I had one a few years ago and it was very nice, can’t vouch for the current offerings, but it might be worth a try.

    • anon a mouse

      Brooks Brothers has one but it’s short sleeved. If you want drapey, I think you want wool jersey (or wool-blend jersey) and not twill.

  9. Anon

    I went to a continuing ed class where a lot of CPAs were there (b/c CPE credit). One of them was saying that CPA entering requirements required essentially a 5th year of college now and that was a burden for new kids entering the profession (especially since not everyone can afford more college; 4 years is plenty). Is this really true? I guess if you have a kid contemplating accounting, maybe not let them dabble in college but start at it right away (I guess also there is no AP accounting class to help high schoolers figure out if they even want to do this). At any rate, they talked about how the AICPA is having to raise scholarship funds to help boost #s since they are reporting that they are not getting enough entry-level CPAs at Big4 and within industry for what they predict they will need. [This reminded me of how you used to be able to be a pharmacist with a 4-year degree or a PT but now it’s doctorate program or bust.]

    • Anon

      In my recollection, accounting degrees always required you to hit the ground running, as with engineering, nursing, etc.

      • Cat

        yeah, there are definitely majors where if you don’t focus right away it’s really hard to align all the pre-reqs to graduate in 4. Accounting and engineering and nursing are all in that group.

    • Anonymous

      It’s 150 credits required which is essentially a 5th year of school. I had some AP credits going in and studied abroad and was close to the number I needed after 4 years of college but it was a full load every semester. Some colleges have a masters program which push students towards that. My school didn’t so the head of the accounting department steered students toward cheap online classes from another university to get extra credits (it didn’t impact the gpa at our school and was accepted by the state CPA board).

      • Anon

        Is a credit a class hour (like my Physics class was 4 credit hours)? And you can get a BA with 120 credit hours (8 * 15 credit hour semesters, not counting APs and community college credits that transfer in). But just general undergrad classes vs specific accounting classes? I think that was what I couldn’t wrap my head around — 150 hours of classwork vs 30 extra credit hours of . . . accounting and stuff.

        • Anon

          Correct. You need the required hours to graduate from your college/university, plus the other hours to get to a total of 150..but only to get certified…after you pass an extremely rigorous CPA (4 part, although I think it’s changing to 3 part?) exam.
          I am a CPA and I had AP hours from high school, plus took a full college load, plus summer classes to graduate in 3.5 years. Then I had to work over 1000 being supervised by another CPA, plus pass the exam, plus pass an ethics exam BEFORE receiving my certification. Now I need 40 hours of continuing ed every year.
          In my opinion, nurses who save lives don’t even have those rigorous of requirements, but I don’t make the rules…

        • Anon

          My engineering degree worked out to be something like 160 credit hours. They squish five years into four so that you can get out in four years and only have to pay four years of tuition.

      • Coach Laura

        Many states will accept online credits toward CPA license but be sure to check – Texas won’t, last time I checked and there might be others.

    • anon

      The issue is not so much the required courses for a CPA but that states requires so other courses to be taken outside your major that unless you are taking over a full course load, it is difficult to do in four years. Other majors, normally non-liberal arts, also run into the same problem getting all the credits in four years because there are so many in major hours that they need to take. It’s not the same everywhere, but some states (mine in particular) require that you load up essential a years worth of hours with classes like philosophy, art, history, etc. that are outside your major.

    • Anon

      also, compared with a lot of other industries, entry level CPA salaries have been pretty stagnant so even students studying accounting are landing accounting adjacent jobs with higher salaries (at least at the higher ed institution where i work)

    • Anon

      Self-inflicted wound. Massachusetts allows attorneys to sit for the CPA exam provided they have sufficient accounting and business law courses. They also allow almost anyone with a BA/BS to sit, provided they have taken sufficient accounting courses. The problem is that not many people know about it, so you have un/deremployed attorneys who don’t know that they are eligible to re-tool as CPAs.

      Other states are far more strict: bachelor’s in accounting and master’s in accounting, no exceptions. Well, of course there’s a shortage! I know someone whose bachelor’s is in art history who got a master’s in nursing and is now an amazing ER nurse. We would have a crazy nurse shortage if we required people to know they wanted to be nurses starting at age 17.

      • Walnut

        Yes, exactly. Back when I considered sitting for the CPA exam, there was no way to get licensed if you didn’t get your experience in a public accounting or gov’t accounting role. Working in private under a licensed CPA didn’t count toward the hours. Since I had no desire to shift to public or gov’t accounting, I declined to sit for the exam.

    • AZCPA

      So this has been the case since 2014 in most states (a few states rolled out the requirements later, and Hawaii does their own thing entirely). 150 credit hours, with a significant portion (typically 36) in upper division accounting. A master’s isn’t technically required, but it’s often challenging to find enough qualifying courses without being in a master’s program, and as a tradition college student graduation requirements is 120, it’s effectively a year of extra school.

      AICPA created their own scarcity problem, which coupled with industry issues like terrible succession planning for small to midsized firms, is both discouraging new accountants and driving away existing accountants.

    • Anon

      CPA, others have explained the 150 credit requirements. Another factor is the experience requirement to get liscenced, 1 year or 1000 hours verified by am employer. Plus the pipleline into public accounting is the method most people i know took to get their experience. To get a fulltime position in public, most students are going to need to do an internship first to get a job offer right out of school. Internships are either junior or senior year of college and can be summer or winter. Summer internships means no opportunity to cram in summer classes for the 150 credit requirements. Winter internships mean you have to take a very very reduced course load or opt out of classes for a semester altogether. I took off a semester to do a winter imternship, took a full courseload over the summer semester and a full course load over the fall semester in order to graduate that December with my degree credits of 120 plus the additional 30 for the cpa. I came into college with only 3 AP credits. I also startes work fulltime that january and studied for the exam while working fulltime.
      For what its worth, i had a merit scholarship and parental support for tuition and housing. But i also worked 2 part time jobs throughout school before the internship.

    • Ginger

      I’m an oldster CPA buy my daughter is in public accounting and has passed a few parts of the CPA exam. Her school offered an MS to get the extra credits, but she passed on that and managed to graduate in 4 years with the 150 credits. She had some AP credits from high school and she took some online classes during breaks.

  10. Anon

    I read the other day how some private colleges now look to IRA $ / 401K $ for determining financial aid (not pensions though). I get that there are public colleges, but the #s often don’t work out in my state — much more demand than spots and they make more $ on out of state students. I wondered what the FIRE people say about kids and college and am suspecting that they may say take any $ your put away and buy your kid a condo and let them take community college classes and even if they don’t figure out how to do something like LPN -> RN they will be ahead of the game and you won’t be eating cat food in your old age and can actually retire. The math of college is beginning to scare me and my kids are barely into the double digits (but I had them older, so most of my working life this wasn’t on my horizon and now the runway is shrinking for figuring this all out).

    • Anon

      Can you write this in a clearer way? The sentences are quite run on and I’m getting lost.

      • Cat

        She’s worried her kids won’t get into UVA (valid) and how to pay for either private or out of state tuition for a different choice.

        • emeralds

          If this is the poster for whom I’ve written multiple essay-length responses about college admissions and how it is not actually a crisis if her child goes through the CSU system or to Merced or Riverside instead of Berkeley or UCLA, I think she’s in California, actually.

          So, I will say: therapy for anxiety. And, somewhat tongue in cheek, move TF out of California if you don’t think you can afford to send your kids to school in California. North Carolina, Michigan, and Virginia all have lower COLs and very good state school systems.

          • Cat

            oh lol I thought this was our usual “Virginia resident with tweens and 70-something parents in NJ” resident worrywart :)

          • Anon

            I don’t remember the other posts from this person, but I’m a mom with one kid at a CSU and one kid at a UC, and I am here to tell you my CSU kid is getting a far better education. No question. My kids would agree.

          • Senior Attorney

            Amen to the non-brand name college education! OP, I would happily have stressed out and tied myself in knots to get my kid into The Very Best University and find a way to pay for it, but my son was just plain not having any of it. He refused to get on the college merry-go-round, he refused to be an over-achiever in high school, and he just opted out of the whole thing. He ended up doing two years at community college (practically free because he lived at home), two years at a non-flagship UC to get his bachelor’s (I could cover that, including living expenses, with what I’d saved), four years in the Marines, and then the GI Bill paid for grad school at a public university. No loans — yay! He’s now happy as can be as a psychotherapist in private practice. Not the path I imagined for him, but not everybody is a Type A hard-charging tick-all-the-boxes-win-all-the-prizes type like the people on this board.

            I guess my point is that if you are looking at alternatives it doesn’t have to be the end of the world.

          • Anonymous

            I think she’s also the one whose kids are failing middle school math.

            Anon @12:29, I went to UCLA on scholarship and there is absolutely no way I would send my kid there. Even 20+ years ago, many kids were on the 5-year plan because it was so difficult to get seats in required courses. I got out in 4 years with 2 majors but only because one of them had no competition for seats in courses and I came in with more than a year’s worth of AP courses and had very few GE requirements to fulfill. In one of my majors, even the upper-division courses had 60+ students, all the work was graded by graduate assistants, and it was virtually impossible to find a professor who knew enough about your work to write you a recommendation. No way am I paying for that kind of education for my kid.

          • Anon

            @12:48 my CSU kid knows all the professors in her major, all of her classes are taught by professors rather than TAs, and she’s all set to get her classes on schedule and graduate in 4 years.

            My UCLA kid has had at least one class where he never saw the professor except for a kick-off zoom meeting, he has little to no guidance on choosing his classes and is so bored and un-challenged he mentions all the time he should have just done the community college to UC guaranteed transfer route.

            I really think UC is no place to get your general ed requirements. He had some APs but he wants to take those courses in college because he didn’t feel like he learned much over the pandemic even in AP classes.

    • Anon

      Go to work for a university. Many offer free or substantially reduced tuition at the employing school, sometime other schools in a coalition. Some colleges also offer up to a percentage of the employing institution’s tuition regardless of the college (often 50%).

      • Anon

        this is not a good strategy. i work at a university. my kids could get free tuition at the school where i work or reduced at like 2 others. none of which i necessarily want my kid to attend.

        • Anon

          It depends on the university. My state system has good alternatives and tuition is free at any of the schools. The local, private university pays 100% if you attend there and 50% of its Ivy-level tuition for any other college or university up to 50% of the cost there.

        • No Face

          A private college in my area gives employees full tuition at the college or half that tuition at any other university. It’s a great recruiting tool.

        • Anon

          Anon at 9:54, I say this as someone whose father put her through an Ivy-equivalent school with zero financial aid: people who can’t afford to have their life savings raided for college find this to be a good strategy. When the choices are kid doesn’t go to college, parents raid their retirement accounts for college, kid takes on massive debt, or kid goes to a school that isn’t a great fit, the latter is actually your best option.

          I don’t want my kiddo going to the school DH is at, but it’s our back-up plan for ensuring that college happens. It’s also our plan in case the kid is set on a career path with very expensive graduate school (i.e. med school). Get the dirt-cheap UG degree, throw all of our money towards med school ($50k for in-state), and enable him to have an MD without being buried in debt.

          • Anon

            Right—having the free tuition is a great back up plan, even when it is less than ideal.

        • Anon

          Does it really matter if it’s not the school you want your kids to attend if it’s free and they still end up with college degrees?

      • anon

        Ha. Five years ago, I interviewed for a job at a university and got passed over for an over-qualified man who had a daughter who was a senior in high school. I noticed that, exactly 5 years later, that job is open again. My career has shifted, so I’m not a great fit for it anymore, or it’s not a great fit for me.

    • Cat

      Ask your fledgling accountant kid :)

      People have been gaming financial aid for as long as it existed. I remember one kid in my class had parents with a huge real estate portfolio – they’d tied up their assets so they didn’t have to pay full freight Ivy tuition.

      • Anon

        Don’t Ivies now give substantial discounts for families below income thresholds (which are still far above poverty level)? OP, reduce your family income below $180k (or whatever it is) and then make sure your kids get admitted to Ivies.

    • Anonymous

      Can I offer you some advice? Please consider meeting with a therapist who specializes in anxiety about children. I’ve seen your posts about paying for college and getting into college and I feel bad for you – it’s really hard to live with anxiety or to feel like you’re not prepared to help your kids. It seems like this topic might be intrusive for you. I personally have had decent luck with therapy and I know tons of others on this board have as well. If it’s not for you, so be it, but I like to speak up because for many people, getting “permission” for therapy from a random stranger can help. It did for me.

    • No Face

      Get a financial planner and see what you realistically can save for college, then let your kids know how much you think you will be able to provide them when they start high school. Help them navigate scholarships and financial aid when the time comes.

      Most people cannot afford to pay for their kids to go to a private, four year university. If you can’t, then you are normal. If that’s what your kids want, they get scholarships and loans for the amount you can’t pay, or they can choose less expensive options.

      To me, the only “bad” choice you can make is to give your kids the impression that you will pay for everything when you can’t.

      • A+ Fed

        Yes, talk to your kids early and often about affordibility. When my daughter was the age that college acceptances were rolling in, she had a number of friends whose parents chose that moment to mention loans and the kids paying their own way, when they had been encouraging dreams and reaches up to that point. Granted, she started college right as we were climbing out of the Great Recession, so maybe parents had been more optimistic about savings prior to that, but I was really glad we had been upfront about what we could and could not afford. As it happened, she got a great academic scholarship to undergrad at a STEM oriented state university, and her 529 went to paying for her grad school.

    • Anonymous

      What’s your question? I read twice and don’t understand. I have 3 kids and since before they were born DH and I have had long conversations about our expectations for being able to pay for college, and what that may or may not look like. Not everyone has to pay cash for a $75k/year college. Your kids can go to state school and take out loans. Your kids can take a year off from college. Your kids can take out a bazillion dollars and go to a $75k/year college.

      Of course they should look at your retirement funds for financial aid. I was not aware they were excluded. If parents have $5M in retirement but are looking for a free ride for their kids for college, I would laugh in their face.

      FWIW, when our kids have aged out of daycare, we just funneled that money right into a 529. Saving sound shard but when you already pay $40k/year in daycare it isn’t such a hard pill to swallow to keep on saving. We are working towards a goal of saving $150k per kid for college. They will go to state school, take out loans, get scholarships, and/or we will bankroll the difference. If we end up being able to save more for them, we will, but we won’t lose sleep over it. It’s possible grandparents will leave them some money, but that’s not a given.

      • Cornellian

        The daycare thing is a good point. Maybe I’ll at least funnel a couple hundred a month when he graduates to kindergarten next year. Thanks!

    • Anon

      Talk to a specialist and talk to a therapist. You have a huge amount of anxiety over this.

      Look up the differences between the FAFSA and the CSS. Schools choose how to use this information; there’s no requirement that they even consider it just because they have the information.

      No matter what, do not raid your retirement savings to pay for college. Bluntly, consider whether or not college is in your children’s best interests. If they are very talented, academically or athletically, they can find a merit scholarship *somewhere* (not their dream school by a long shot) that will give them a degree for very little money. If they are average and you can’t afford college, then community college is the answer. Many colleges are available online if there are not ones local to you.

        • Anonymous

          The military is not an option for many people, for health reasons or otherwise. I say this as someone who seriously considered a military career and probably would have loved it.

        • Anon

          Concur. Do NOT raid retirement for college. There are loans for college; there are no loans for retirement.

          Ditto the military. They’ll pay for everything and give your kid a monthly stipend to boot.

          Also ditto going to a school that isn’t your kid’s dream school if they can go for free. My husband went to some teeny private college on a full athletic scholarship – I’m from the state next door to his and I’d never heard of this college until we met, but free is free, and we all know Bachelor’s degrees are worth less than they’ve ever been, so just get the sheet of paper and then move on.

    • Anonymous

      Mr Money Mustache, self proclaimed FIRE expert, let his kid drop out of high school so I guess that’s a cheap option.

      • No Face

        MMM is extremely wealthy at this point, so his kid does not need college in the way that other people might.

        As an unrelated aside, that was one of the more confusing aspects of the Varsity Blues college admissions scandal for me. If you are an influencer, your mom is an actress, and your dad is a fashion designer, why do you even need to scam your way into USC? You can do whatever you want!

        • Seventh Sister

          Yeah, I had the same reaction. Isn’t the well-traveled rich girl path some kind of cutesy business (like a hat shop or a stationary brand) then marriage to a hedge fund guy? And if you’re the child of a working actor, it sure seems like you’ll get the audition and/or the part (especially if you bear even the slightest resemblance to your famous parent).

          • Anonymous

            I was similarly confused. And why on earth would you cheat to get into USC?!? That’s a backup school for people who can’t get into UCLA! If you are determined to cheat, at least cheat for UCLA or Berkeley or Stanford.

          • Seventh Sister

            I’d venture a guess that it was much, much easier to cheat your way into USC as a private institution. There have been some questionable admits to UCs, but many many fewer issues.

            It’s actually a lot harder than it used to be to get into USC. While the East Coast-centric prestige rankings favor UCLA and Berkeley, there is a huge USC alum network that is very, very helpful to its members within the region (especially in Greater LA and San Diego). Big money, lots of alums in lucrative industries. It’s also surprisingly diverse – USC has spent the past 25 years working really, really hard to recruit students of color at the undergraduate/graduate level. Sure, it’s still a little bit University of Spoiled Children and the University of Second Choice, but not so much anymore.

        • Anon

          You scam your way into USC because our hierarchy has equated attendance at schools like USC with being “elite.” From the outside, USC looks elite: 11% acceptance rate, top 25 US News (or it used to be), high median SAT/ACTs, etc. Those ‘in the know’ understand how the university games the system and do not have a massive amount of respect for it, but plenty of people see USC and get impressed.

      • Anon

        It could also lead to better merit scholarships if the kids spend the extra time outcompeting kids whose time is tied up in school.

        • Anonymous

          How do you get a merit scholarship if you haven’t graduated from high school?

          • Anon

            GED, sky-high SATs/ACTs, all sorts of interesting activities/starting your own business.

          • Anon

            I never went to high school and was offered merit scholarships on the basis of standardized test scores and some other academic achievements (probably recommendation letters from some of my a la carte instructors helped too). I was otherwise pretty boring; I know other people who had standout non-academic accomplishments that probably helped them. GED was totally unnecessary for me.

    • anon

      OK, that was terribly hard to read, but the gist I’m getting is that you’re stressed about your kids going to college.

      College admissions do not have to be this hard, truly. Find a decent state school (whether it’s in your state or elsewhere). Pay what you can and let student loans take care of the rest. Ideal? Maybe not, but it’s not the end of the world, either. You are not obligated to send your kids to an overpriced private college (yep, I went there). Be honest with your kids about what your family can afford. Let them make their own mistakes and choices; pushing them into a certain field is guaranteed to go sideways at some point. Make YOUR KIDS do the legwork in applying for scholarships and whatnot. That experience will serve them well.

    • Anon

      Maybe y’all should vote for politicians who support lowering the cost of higher education instead of getting your undies in a bundle that you didn’t get free college so other people shouldn’t either.

      • Anon

        Politicians have been “lowering” the cost of college for 40 years, with the result that it’s far more unaffordable than it was in the 1970s. It is not that simple and never has been.

    • pugsnbourbon

      I have a lot of siblings. Once I hit middle school and college discussions started, my parents were up front that each of us would get $X (less than $5k) from them, and we would need to take care of the rest with scholarships and loans. I ended up going to public school with a full tuition merit scholarship and my grad school was partially covered. I had some debt when I came out for room/board/fees, but it was less than $20k total.
      Granted this was in the early 2000s when college debt was still “good debt,” but the point remains. Don’t spend your retirement on your kids’ college. Set up a 529 or some other savings account and be honest about what you can contribute. Look at smaller private colleges or non-flagship state schools. You will figure this out, and you actually do have time.

    • Anon

      So our strategy is:
      – We’re saving what we can for our teen son’s college education. It won’t be enough to pay for everything outright. He’ll have to get scholarships and we’ve told him that if he doesn’t qualify for scholarships, that might be a sign college isn’t for him, or he at least needs to wait on it for a year or so.

      – Our state schools are not like California’s state schools but they are fine for undergrad. We are proactively choosing not to get involved in the college-admissions arms race that landed a bunch of people in jail in the Varsity Blues situation. We’re happy to fund him going to an in-state school at in-state tuition. Anything else he wants to do, he’ll have access to his 529s but closing the gaps on that will be up to him.

      – Many people in this world go to perfectly fine state schools and have very productive and happy lives and careers. Many people don’t go to college at all and do well. My kid is on his own path through life and I’m here to support and provide gentle guidance. Not to direct. Try thinking about it from that perspective, it will probably make you feel better if you can embrace it.

        • Anonymous

          Also note that if you do care about school rank, it matters more for graduate or professional school than it does for undergrad.

        • Anon

          I finished undergrad at 38. I work in finance. Didn’t stop.me from doing very well (I worked days through an associate degree night, dropped out for a decade while parent was ill. Parents were financially responsible but medical care was over 11k a month for 5 years – after insurance. After that I was working 12 hours or more, drivinf 3 hours a day and doing 1 class per semester)….

          White female, ny area, finance. Outperformed and outranked previous bosses.

          Just fwiw. I’m just 1 gal.

    • Cornellian

      I was very in to FIRE for years, but I can’t follow your post. I think you’re starting from the wrong premise: that parents should be expected to pay for 100% of their child’s education where the child gets in, and then you’re working backwards from there. Mine is 4, I’ve been putting away 250/month since he was born, which should roughly get him to 2/3 of in-state. Obviously it’s hard to know what things will look like in 15 years. If I decide not to have another kid, I’ll probably start throwing another 50 or 100 towards first/only kid’s fund. When he’s 10 or 12 I’ll start talking to him about college and careers. I will not be raiding my retirement, and I hope I’ll have put a good enough head on his shoulders that he won’t end up in unmanageable debt.

    • Anon

      I also don’t really understand the question but tuition at our decent in-state school costs less than our daycare did so I’m not terribly worried. We’re saving in a 529 separately and if we can afford a private school, great, if not, we have a good option that we know we can afford.

      I want universal childcare before universal four year college. High daycare costs disproportionately impact women and drive them out of the workforce (in my LCOL city, if you have 2+ kids and aren’t a doctor or a lawyer, daycare is almost certainly more than your salary).

  11. Anonymous

    The U.S. seems to have moved on from Afghanistan, but American kids (about 50 in total) are still trapped there, to say nothing of allies and women we’ve left to suffer their fate. I don’t want to feel helpless anymore. Does anyone have any ideas for effective charities to work with or donate to? I’ve called my reps multiple times and at least one seems to care, but I want to do more. Based in CA if it matters.

    • Anonymous

      Save our allies (dot org) is actively getting people out. They have an Amazon wish list for supplies if you don’t want to just give money.

  12. Anonymous

    I keep getting targeted ads for c-tail-making subscription boxes and am thinking this could be a fun date night routine for DH and me. Anyone have a particular one to recommend? Referral code?

    • Anon

      I got a Shaker & Spoon subscription as a gift. It was cute, but the alcohol isn’t included so I had to shop for that separately. I think they now have an option to buy the alcohol online separately, though.

      We did turn it into a bit of a date night – stopped by the liquor store on our way home from dinner, picked out an option to try, then made some cocktails at home. It was fun, and felt very fancy since we’re not big cocktail-makers at home. But since we’re not big cocktail-makers, we made one night of each of the drinks and that was it – we didn’t use up the ingredients and we didn’t make them a second time. I don’t think that’s bad, per se, but if we did it again, we’d probably invite another couple to join us, so we used up more of the ingredients.

    • Greensleeves

      We have been doing Shaker & Spoon for several months now and really enjoy it. We started it because we missed being able to go out and try fun drinks during quarantine. The drinks have been really good and the instructions are clear. Each month’s box uses a single type of alcohol and they send recommendations in advance, so we just pick a bottle up before the box arrives. You may be able to have them ship alcohol too, depending on where you live, but that’s not an option for our state so I’m not sure. I’ve found it’s very easy to skip a month if you won’t be home or don’t like that month’s box. Here’s a referral link that gets you a discount if you want to give it a try: https://www.shakerandspoon.com/refer/Erin-GNHWHXHA

      • Anonymous

        I’m in VA. thanks to above posters— shaker and spoon is the one that’s been tempting me! I may try it.

    • Anonymous

      Not OP, but wow, Shaker & Spoon looks neat! I noticed that of the three drinks in this month’s box, one contains bitters, which I detest. Is it usually just 1 out of the 3 with bitters, or are there sometimes more?

      • Greensleeves

        In my experience, one or two of the drinks always contain bitters. It’s usually a very small amount, but if you really dislike them you might still notice!

  13. Anon

    Can anyone recommend a mask or type of mask material that is less likely to cause acne? I always wear a clean mask and already have a skincare routine that includes BHA, Differin, and benzoyl peroxide if things are looking really bad. Despite this, masks still seem to equal instant acne for me.

  14. anon

    Fun question – plan your perfect DC day! I am doing a short staycation with my husband (and without the kids) this Friday to celebrate our anniversary. We’re staying in Dupont Circle and haven’t planned much. We’re pretty covid cautious but are excited to dine outdoors – our first time going to a restaurant in 18 months! We were thinking of going to the museum of African American history but were not able to get tickets in time (and not willing to go wait in line for same day tickets).

    • Anon

      Portrait Gallery, Kramer Books, dinner at Sakuramen, drinks at the Raven. This is heavily influenced by my nostalgia from my DC days and who I was dating at the time, even though the guy turned out to be a total jerk.

    • Shelle

      Have fun and congrats! Sine you were hoping to check out the NMAAHC, I’d run to the National Gallery of Art (no tickets required) and check out the Shaw 54th Regiment Memorial. It’s in no way comparable to the scale of the NMAAHC but it’s a lovely dedication to a local African American Civil War regiment. The NGA is still setting up the exhibit of local black female artist Alma Thomas but I believe there is a piece of art on view now. Dinner at Supra or Le Diplomate. Drinks at Columbia Room or generally on Blagden Alley.

      • Seventh Sister

        Ditto National Gallery of Art. If that doesn’t appeal, the National Museum of the American Indian is amazing. I’m a sucker for the Lincoln Memorial, but I have no idea about distances, etc. Can you get a reservation for Old Ebbitt Grill?

    • Anon

      Dolan Uyghur restaurant was one of the best meals I’ve had in a long time. They’re on Connecticut Ave, practically on top of the Cleveland Park Metro stop.
      Which museums you’re able to go to will be largely informed by what day of the week you’re visiting. There aren’t very many open on Mondays or Tuesdays.

    • Anon

      Near Dupont, I love The Chocolate House on 18th St for delicious chocolates, or Sharbat is a little further north but a delicious bakery. I’d eat at Anju, Lapis, Tail Up Goat, or Reveler’s Hour in that area. Honestly, I love any of the museums – the Smithsonian is a treasure. The Portrait Gallery is always a good one, and open a little later than the rest/near good restaurants. (Zaytinya and Rasika are oft-recommended classics for a reason.) Recently I’ve heard great things about Oyster Oyster.

    • Anon

      If you were willing to get up early, the Museum of African-American history releases same day tickets Online at eight in the morning. I’ve never had a problem getting them for week days, but never tried for the weekend

  15. Anonymous

    Quick question – anyone who bills at work (law/consulting), do you bill for all the time waiting around for edits before you can submit the product or deliverable? I had to stay until 8 last night (rare for me) waiting for graphic design to finish a document and I had to be loosely on hand for questions, but I wasn’t exactly busting my butt “working” that whole time. Do I bill all of it?

    • Cat

      uh NO, that’s when you switch to working ahead on another project or “home from work” and pay your bills and place your online grocery order.

      • Cat

        Clarifying – of course bill whatever time you actually spend answering questions but billing say 2 hours when 80% of that time was idle and you’re not at the client s-te? No.

    • Sunshine

      No. You can bill for the time you actually spend working. I also bill for travel time. But time spent waiting around for someone else to do something, I do not.

    • Anon

      I’m a consultant. I only bill for actual hours spent working on a project. I cannot imagine thinking I could bill for “the ball’s in your court” time.

    • Ellen

      I do bill on a portal to portal basis. That means when I am on a deal, every bit of my time is allocated to the project, including my down time, which is very very little. The cleints do not challenge this because of the quality of service I provide. If they choose to question it, I tell them that I am the best in the busness, and they are welcome to go elsewhere if they do not like it. This has only happened with 2 cleints, and they both stayed with us.

      This is the beauty of being good at what you do. People will stick with you because the alternatives are much worse. YAY!!!

  16. Sunshine

    Thank you for all the Chicago recs yesterday. I didn’t get back here to reply to each person’s comment. I appreciate everyone’s input. And I think I’m going to have a fantastic trip!

  17. Anon

    Feeling like I’ve been running around like a chicken with my head cut off lately. I’m off today and looking for a few things I can do to make me feel more put together.

    Work has been both crazy busy and soul crushing (I’m very burnt out), I’ve been job searching, my social/personal life has been feast or famine lately, and I’ve gotten away from healthy habits (working out, cooking at home, taking time to relax, “adulting”).

    • Panda Bear

      Sounds exactly like my life lately! I find it helpful to make lists. I write out things I have to do (e.g. get oil changed), things I want to do (e.g. try out new recipe, go spin class twice a week), and people I need to reach out to (e.g. call aunt, email old friend I haven’t seen in forever). I feel more in control once things are down on actual paper. Implementation is the hard part, but it helps to then put a realistic number of those things onto my calendar so I actually do them.

    • Seafinch

      I could have written this. Just bonkers at work, still WFH with a two year old and no childcare, plus three elementary school aged kids, so lots of juggling.

      I started a round of 75 Hard a month ago and it isn’t always easy to get done but I have done it by focusing on each day in isolation and putting one foot in front of the other. I also make daily lists to keep on track. Striking through things is immensely gratifying.

  18. Anonymous

    What financial help have you received from your parents/families other than college/grad school (which I realize is huge if you received it but I’m interested in adulthood/post schooling)? I mean have you gotten down payments, private school tuition for your kids, partial down payments/tuitions for kids, transfers of stock, etc. And how do you view such things – do you feel like – without that money we would not have been able to do x? Or do you feel more like – it was nice but 20k in stock didn’t change anything, didn’t buy me a house etc. Do you expect you’ll do the same for your kids once they’re older – out of college/settling down?

    • Anon

      As an adult, I assisted my parents (now deceased) financially, not the other way around. I received lots of moral support, though.

    • Cat

      Paid for undergrad, but since then, nothing that is substantial or material vs. our salaries. (We don’t have kids, and receive 100% generous but not life-changing birthday and Christmas gifts – think ~1% of our salaries.)

    • Anon

      My parents helped me a lot post-university because it took me a long time to figure out what the heck I was doing with my life. They helped me with rent, debt, medical bills, etc. I also lived with them for several years post-university. But nothing huge like stock or down payments. They’re fairly well-off but they don’t have the cash for that nor would I want them to. I don’t have kids yet but I would never be able to help them financially like that if I did because I’m not a fancy lawyer.

    • anon

      I’m in my early 30’s in a high cost of living place with a good public sector salary, but certainly not as well off as my parents were at the same age. My parents 100% unexpectedly gave me $18k CAD as a “housewarming gift” 3-4 months after I closed on a house (which cost $880k). Not sure where the number came from – perhaps it was translation from 15k USD to CAD – but I’m sure my sister got an identical amount a few years earlier because my parents are very focused on treating us evenly. I suspect they kept their plan secret from me because they didn’t want me to take it into consideration when purchasing.

      I have not gotten other financial support in adulthood and do not receive presents/informal support (dinners, etc.) because we live far apart. I don’t have any intentions to have kids and haven’t thought about what I would do if I did. Independence is very important to me, and I left high school a year early/didn’t return in summers in order to get away from home and establish my own life.

    • Anonymous

      My parents havent really given us anything (aside from you know typical birthday, Christmas, wedding gifts etc) neither has DH’s parents. They help in other ways though my dad has probably saved us 10k on our renovation by providing his expertise and occasionally loaning a hand for a big project. My family has money but I just don’t want it really, I’m the only grandchild to never take money, it means I have a lot of freedom to say ‘no’ to ridiculous requests. My cousin’s resent that I can say no, and my grandparents resent that they don’t have control over me but whatever.

    • Anonnymouse

      My situation at the moment is a bit unique in that I work for my father’s business (so, technically, he pays for everything, ha!), but aside from that, I’ve been fairly independent. Just because they’ve been woven into his business expenses since I was a teen, my cell phone a car tolls are paid by him. Otherwise, no direct financial support. They have offered to pay for most of my wedding next year, which is the first major adult contribution I cn think of.
      I was left $10,000 from my grandfather after he passed and his house was sold. I saved most of this and used it towards a down payment on a house.
      Most of the financial support after college has been the fact that I knew I had them as a safety net if I needed it. This has been so huge in lessening stress – my fiancé, for instance, though he has never made a ton of money, has had to help out family financially. I’ve never had to do that or consider that.

      • anon

        Your perspective is interesting to me re: support. Is the salary you are receiving from the family business the same as what you’d receive on the open market? Could you get an equivalent job with a third party within a reasonable period of time?

        I have no idea of your situation, but my partner has a number of friends who are over employed/paid by their family and don’t view it as “support.”

        • Anonnymouse

          Happy to describe my situation further. I was in an unrelated industry before I started working as an administrator for my dad’s medical practice when he needed help, which involves managing a building he owns and works out of, tenants, and various other admin tasks. I would describe my salary as good for my work, but not excessive by any means. I could probably find another job with similar pay, but it’s complicated by the fact that I haven’t stayed in my old line of work, and am not sure if I’d want to return to it, so my experience level wherever I go would be less than if I had been doing the same thing, climbing the ladder, this whole time.
          Like you say with some folks you know, I don’t see my job as “support,” per se. However, there are definite benefits when working for him – flexibility, getting time off, etc. But, working for family also brings it’s won frustrations, ha! So maybe it balances out?

      • Anonnymouse

        Also, to add, they typically pay when we eat out, travel together, etc., which I wouldn’t have been able to finance myself. This has allowed me to have many more experiences than if they hadn’t. I imagine, when/if I have kids, I’ll support them to help them get started in life (college, early adulthood), but wouldn’t want to foster an expectation of money or dependence, unless if was really needed (illness, for example). I would want to, hopefully, achieve a balance where they would be encouraged to be independent in this manner, and appreciate the accomplishment of saving for any paying for things yourself.
        I course, hypotheticals pale in comparison to the experience of real life – so who knows!

    • Anon.

      My parents paid for about 2/3 of my condo purchase and my first adult car. I remain on their cell phone plan and don’t reimburse them. They pay for my flights to visit them. They also paid for undergrad and grad school. Their financial support has allowed me to take a public service job that I love and supports a cause we all believe in. Without their financial help, I’d work in the private sector.

    • Anon

      In addition to full tuition and covering all college costs, my parents bought me a condo after I graduated from college so I wouldn’t have to worry about housing costs and could focus on saving money. They also supported me financially when I was unexpectedly let go from my job.

      My first few years out of college were rough work-wise, so this was a huge help for me and I’m thankful they were able to help me out. I would love to do the same for any eventual kids that I have, but I’m not sure it will be financially viable :(

    • Anonymous

      Zero financial support. My parents helped me get through college and that was it.

    • Anon

      No financial help from parents. They didn’t pay for college either – I was a full financial aid kid, 50% of which was loans.

      I watched people around me taking fancy vacations and buying their first homes that were much nicer than anything I could afford and felt quite a bit of envy, actually, but now that’s all in the rear view mirror and I feel proud of myself.

      The thing I wished for the most was a financial backstop. Like if everything went to hell, there would be someone to keep us from defaulting/bankruptcy/homelessness, and that wasn’t there. Fortunately it never came to that.

      • Cornellian

        Agreed. The ability to crash on someone’s couch for a month is what I missed most. Now I’m stable enough it’s unlikely to come to that, but that lack of safety net has for sure warped my life choices.

        • Anon

          I’m 12:33. I used to live next door to a young couple I thought of as “silver spoon hippies.” He was in grad school, she stayed home with their baby. 100% parental support, and the parents bought their house, too.

          They used to sort of scorn me for running off to my corporate job every day, and more than once directly asked why I didn’t quit my evil job and do something good for the world.

          I can’t even.

      • anonshmanon

        You are completely right. It took me a while to realize how lucky I am to have that safety net.

    • pugsnbourbon

      I got less than $5k from my parents for undergrad. About 20 years later my parents gave us an interest-free loan to boost our down payment, which we paid back within a year. I know that if things go truly sideways in my life I can move back in with them. I’m so grateful for how hard they worked for all of us and I love seeing them comfortable in their retirement.
      My wife’s family paid for her undergrad and most of her college expenses. We have received two unexpected inheritances from her family members; one of these has allowed my wife to take some time off and switch careers.

      • pugsnbourbon

        Oh – and to be fully honest, my mom covered my college apartment rent one month when I came up short :)

    • anon

      My parents gave me some money for living expenses during college (a set monthly amount, so if my expenses were greater than that, they didn’t pay). I had a full tuition scholarship, but they paid for books. Once I graduated, no financial support except that they gave me an interest-free loan to get a car during my divorce (we were a one-car family, it was technically his, and I had no access to funds during the proceedings to buy a car myself so would have needed a loan one way or another).

      My family was upper middle class, and my peers’ parents paid for a lot more than mine did, but it just wasn’t an expectation in our family that they would pay for stuff after college. I also started working during the summers as soon as I was legally able to, and worked summers throughout high school/college, plus part time in an on-campus job during the school year, so I always had some additional money of my own.

      I married a much wealthier man and so we expect to be able to pay for undergrad for our kids via savings, but my expectation and strong preference is that they become financially independent on graduation from undergrad. In my social circle, there are a lot of families where the grandparents are still paying for a lot of stuff (private school tuition, country club memberships) and there is a lot of control that is exercised as a result.

    • Anon

      My parents paid for my undergrad but not my law school, have helped me with packing and unpacking a couple of apartments (but haven’t paid the movers), have given me unlimited advice and thoughtful but not generally cash gifts, my dad gives me around $1000 every Christmas starting a year or two ago. He also has always paid my cell phone but I buy the phones themselves.

    • anonymous

      We got 50K as a down payment from my parents for the new house we got built around 7 years ago. We could not have afforded the house without that help. They also provided some money towards buying a used car for me when my old one died and they gave us a few thousand towards putting a deck on the new house. They offered to do all these things. I did not outright ask for assitance.

      We have also gone on vacation with my parents where they have paid for air fare and hotels.

      My husband grew up very poor. His mother has been on public assistance for ages and his dad worked as a pastor and mechanic. Getting money like that was an adjustment for him. I’m Indian and from what my mom has told me, her friends also help their kids financially. We don’t have kids.

      • Anonymous

        An aside but you’re Indian from a well to do family and you married a white (or black?) guy with a mother on public assistance and a pastor/mechanic dad? How did THAT go over with your family? Indian myself and I can’t imagine.

        • anonymous

          OP from above – married to a white guy who only has a high school diploma. Did not go well and we got married on our own without my parents or family being there. My parents thought I was going to drop out of college and end up barefoot and pregnant. I was most upset that they thought so little of me when they raised me to be responsible, education is so important, etc. Anyway, we reconciled and they had an Indian wedding ceremony for us a year later. Been married 22 year now.

          • Anon

            Also Indian, and so glad it worked out with you! I don’t know which my family would have a bigger issue with – white or no college.

    • Anon

      my parents paid for undergrad, and half of grad school. i’m still on the family cell phone plan and don’t reimburse for it. my mother passed away shortly after she retired and my parents had it set up so that my sister and I would each get half of her retirement accounts and life insurance policy upon death bc my dad doesn’t need it. she was sick, but still passed away much earlier than we all anticipated. My parents have paid to take us on vacation and have been very generous with the grandkids (contributing to 529s, gave us some money to help with a baby nurse when twins were born because my mom was still alive then and so upset she physically couldn’t help me). the money i received for my education was life changing in that i never had an unmanageable amount of debt, so in that sense it bought me a house bc i could save more easily. I have never asked my parents for money, but if g-d forbid i ever needed anything, I do have them to rely on as a safety net, which I realize makes me very lucky. My parents themselves did not grow up this way. Their parents (my grandparents) had nothing. what allows me to live the life i live right now, is DH’s job. i work, but he is the primary breadwinner. my dad was also very very frugal when i was a kid growing up and i think my mom’s death plus his age have now made him shift his attitude towards more of a ‘life is short, i want to see people enjoy my money.’ i definitely did not always realize how privileged i am, but now that i do, i often feel guilty for my privilege, though realize that my guilt doesn’t accomplish anything, so it is something i’m working on.

    • Anon

      My partner’s parents have helped us out a lot financially. They gave us around 30k for a down payment on a condo when we were both in school. Because of the market, that condo doubled in value and we sold it this year, which allowed us to buy a home in our HCOL (for our state) hometown. Without their financial help on the first condo, we would not have been able to afford our house. My parents, on the other hand struggle financially, but they do have me on their phone plan (around $20 a month) and their insurance (I am not 26 yet). I could easily pay for these things on my own, but I think they like being able to help me a little bit. Both my partner and I are better off financially than my parents, so we always pick up the bill at dinner, help pay for trips, etc. I suspect I will end up helping my parents out financially in the future. I will definitely help my kids out, but I do think there is a fine line between too much help and the right amount.

    • Cornellian

      I got no money for college or anything else. I got a free place to live until I was 16. My fiance’s parents gave us 2K towards our wedding.

      I don’t want to go that spartan with my kid (or kids if I have another), but I think it’s honestly better to err on the side of under contributing financially and helping them figure out how to get on their own two feet. A lot of folks my age (millennial) seem to not understand IRAs, 401Ks, how compound interest affects them, etc. I also find it morally problematic for already advantaged kids to get even huger advantages, but you didn’t really ask that.

      For my son I plan on throwing in some money for tuition, I assume I might help with a wedding one day. I don’t anticipate transferring stock or property or paying down payments.

      • Anonymous

        This is a little judgmental re. retirement savings. I am a little older than you, late GenX., and paid my own way through college. I had a very hard time contributing much to retirement savings on my starting salary at age 21. Maxing retirement would have taken more than half the salary from my full-time job, and I was already working a second job just to get by. I plan to assist my own child enough with college tuition, wedding costs if any, a down payment on a house, and other large expenses so she doesn’t start out her adult life behind and can afford to start saving for retirement right away.

      • Anonymous

        I also find it morally problematic that some kids start out ahead, especially since like you I started out way behind, but I don’t think punishing my own child by refusing to help her will fix that.

    • Anon

      Tons of support, and it’s ongoing. My parents have money because they busted a$$ and saved their pennies, not because they were high earners. I’m cut from the same cloth; husband and I managed to pay off the mortgage before we turned forty and I didn’t break a six-figure salary until I was 43. (Husband is a teacher and will never break six figures.)

      I’ve owned two cars in my life, both base-level sedans bought new by my parents. I kept the first from 1996-2018, and the 2018 I hope to keep just as long.

      They’ve paid for major home projects over the years as they came up, like a new roof and a new water heater. They offered to pay off the mortgage, but didn’t realize we already did. They took us out for a nice meal to celebrate when they found out we had done so.

      We are childfree so we won’t be passing this behavior on, but it did allow my husband to take several years off from working to care for his own father with dementia. My parents are also extremely motivated to see us enjoy their money, because my mom’s parents were irresponsible and their entire (substantial!) estate got eaten by legal problems. My parents want to make sure they maintain full control over where their money goes, so they’ve got everything in trusts, etc.

      I am totally spoiled and I know it, but I definitely maximize every cent and don’t take any of it for granted.

    • anon

      My parents give us around $1,000-1,500 for Christmas every year, as well as $500 for each grandkid’s college fund. It is very generous, and I am happy that after a lifetime of hard work, they are financially comfortable. Things were much tighter when I was a kid. Has it been life-changing money? No, but it has made major purchases a bit easier. The reasons for receiving this money now, instead of via inheritance, are specific to my parents’ situation. To be honest, I haven’t given much thought to what we’ll give our kids in adulthood. I’m sure we’ll do something, but no clue what that might look like.

    • Anon

      Not much. Tuition for undergrad was split 3 ways (divorced parents – they each paid a third, I paid the remaining third with loans and working), I paid for law school. Each set of parents put about $1,000 towards my small wedding. Each contributes about $500 a year to my kids’ college funds. They have offered more but I don’t like the obligation / unsolicited opinions / strings that can come with having someone else partially fund your lifestyle. It never would have occurred to me to ask for (or accept) help with rent, a down payment, or a mortgage … living within the means that we actually control are pretty important to us.

    • anon VVHCOL area

      I knew that I had education and safety net support to the extent feasible and I plan on giving my kids education and safety net support to the extent feasible.

      I’ve seen lifestyle help from parents go really badly—parents often use it to control adult children, adult children don’t become independent and resent the parents, etc. In this kind of situation, both parents and children would be better off the children didn’t receive lifestyle help.

      That said, I live in a VVHCOL area and if wealthy parents want their adult children who don’t go into especially lucrative fields to stick around, it’s prudent to give financial help, particularly for housing. Has anyone seen this structured well so it doesn’t cause problems in the relationship?

      • Anonymous

        I’ve heard of one scenario where it seems to be working. The city is Portland, OR, so not necessarily a VVHOL city, but crazy competitive real estate market. The parents bought the house since though could
        Do an all cash deal. The agreement is that the parents lease it back to the child and her spouse, and they have to pay for anything housing related, including property taxes taxes, HOAs and payment for all house maintenance utilities. Any profits from a sale of the house would be split 50-50. But I think if you are in SF and want your kids to stick around, you the parent have to buy a place for your kids.

        • Anon

          I’m in the Bay Area, my kids are in college and I’m staring this problem down the nose right now.

      • AnonAnon

        Yes! I bought a condo in my VHCOL city with help from MY parents. It is within walking distance of their house which is very convenient now and will be more so when they have to stop driving; they are already uncomfortable driving at night. In the meantime, my daughter and her husband pay far below market rent for my old house in the suburbs (too big a house for just me and near good schools for when they have kids). It works beautifully because:

        (1) We all get along well. Nobody is controlling or lacks respect for boundaries. We all have entry codes to each others’ houses. None of us would dream of just walking in uninvited. They can make any change to the house that a tenant could make (painting for example) without my permission or comment. We have a formal lease that spells out who is responsible for what. It is just like a regular rental except that they pay a third what I could get on the open market.

        (2) Financial help is independent of love or attention. The fact that I could charge more than I do in rent does not mean my daughter and her husband are obligated to spend their holidays or vacations with me or my parents.

        (3) I did have some conditions. We talked about those in advance. (For example, I travel for work about 1x/month and they are on standby to help my parents when that happens.) And while Sunday dinner 2-3 times a month and my SIL’s help around the house for my parents was never an express condition it is impossible to know to what extent they feel obligated. But then love and duty with parents and children is a tangled mess regardless of financial relationships.

      • Anon

        Live at home until 25 working through college, self funded. 10k loan to buy a house, paid back over 10 times and delighted to do so in care costs for remaining parent.

    • Anonynon

      My parents paid exactly what the financial aid office said they had to, and not a penny more—all my money for clothes or food etc was from work study or summer job. They gave me their old car when I graduated (it had about 100k miles on it, and was a bit of a beater, but it ran). Other than that, Christmas gifts of maybe $1k or so most years (but I also have to fly home which usually costs 3/4 of that!). I think I got about $10k when one set of grandparents passed away. But really the best gift for me has been knowing they’re financially secure and have planned and aren’t likely to need money from me to live as they’re older and less healthy. It’s likely I’d get a chunk of change if they pass away anytime soon (they’re 75 and 80) but equally likely one or both will live for years and use most of the money up, so I’m definitely not counting on it.

    • Anon

      My parents paid for a top private college in full (total cost was $250k, yikes), gave me some assistance with grad school (I think somewhere around $10-20k total) and loaned DH and me money so we could buy a house in cash (we paid them back with interest). They’ve told us they’re saving for our kids’ college education but we don’t have any access to that money and aren’t counting on it.

      We hope to pay for college in full for our kids and would give them assistance with grad school if we’re able to do so without hurting our own futures. Beyond that, I don’t know. I can see doing what my parents did and loaning them some money, but I doubt I would give them money outright.

    • Anon

      I received my full undergrad tuition (private college) and living expenses (and would have received grad school if I’d gone), wedding expenses, first car, and first house (purchased through a small trust). I know I’ve received a huge amount of support and am enormously grateful. I’ve had access to people, places, and things that have helped me get ahead on top of the money, too. Networks are hard to quantify but nepotism is real and I know I’ve benefitted. Maybe it was too much. At 34 I’m now decades ahead of my age group in retirement savings and net worth. My husband and I will eventually receive a seven figure inheritance. One thing I also received as a wedding gift was a very tight prenuptial, and later when my financial situation changed, a post nuptial agreement that protects me and future kids. Interestingly, my husband comes from a much, much wealthier family and received nothing in terms of support (not even college but he will eventually get a large inheritance). I hope to build an airtight trust for my descendants’ education and basic upkeep that they’ll be unable to screw up or squander. I want my kids to have everything I had but not any more. There comes a point where you don’t encourage ambition or achievement.

    • Anonymous

      My parents paid for college and law school. I truly do not think I’d be a lawyer if I had had to take out loans to do it. And the job I have certainly wouldn’t make sense financially if I had loans to pay. So all in all a huge leg up in life but one that I often feel I squandered by not being more successful career wise. Since then they paid for my wedding. Im technically a partner in a family company that owns real estate, which my dad manages. I get about 5-10k a year in dividends and pay taxes on that interest. When I was younger it was a solids 12k per year, which was hugely helpful as a law student and young professional. We are also currently living with them, for a week, as our home is being renovated. They give generous gifts to my kids, like toys and clothes, but we pay for daycare and fund their college accounts. They didn’t help with our down payments except to the extent that the extra cash from the real estate company makes everything easier. I don’t like to think about my parents passing away, but I do suspect they’ll leave real estate interests to my kids rather than me in the amount of several million or at least they say that. I don’t count on it.

    • Anonymous

      I have student loans from college and law school. Starting at age 45, my mother began making annual gifts of 12k, so I’ve gotten that 3 times, and I anticipate that will continue, at least in most years for the time my mother is in reasonably good health. That’s pretty much it, though I was the beneficiary of many nice dinners for the ~12 years when they lived closer. I did not have a wedding, so maybe she would have helped with that. I don’t know. I bought my house without consulting or informing her until well after I closed so there was not even a discussion of help there. My father is more likely to ask for money than to give it, though I am not in a position to help him.

    • Seafinch

      Canadian here. My parents contributed to my living expenses for uni. I ended up with 75k in loans, some very expensive. They have given me nothing else.
      My MIL bought my student debt and charged me minimal interest which was a huge boon. They bought my husband his first couple of vehicles and gave him 20K for his first condo. They loaned us 60k for a new house so we could move into their very expensive neighbourhood, which we are paying off slowly at their insistence. MIL only wants the amount back per year that she contributes to our kids’ RESPs. She maxes those out each year for all four kids. I suspect there will be money when they are gone but we aren’t planning on it.

      We expect to have access to about 100k for each of our four kids (between our savings and the In-laws) split between RESP (family plan) and mutual funds so we have flexibility in either throwing it at education/starting a business/buying a home. I won’t buy them cars.

    • More Sleep Would Be Nice

      Parents paid for most of undergrad, and whatever $ I made in summers I gave to them to help with expenses. I was very aware from a young age that they were saving. While I took out loans for law school, they helped with the re-payments and helped here and there while I was in law school and starting in the workforce.

      They also paid for most of our wedding (Indian married to a non-Indian). I loved our wedding, but it was definitely a family affair vs. a couple affair; my parents were the first in our larger family to settle in the U.S. so it was a huge milestone for all.

      The financial and moral support they have given has been above and beyond. My father has sadly passed, and my mother is very involved in our lives and is a huge help with our children. I’d like to do the same for our kids (undergrad, wedding), but perhaps for the wedding give them the option of using the money for help with a down payment on a home.

      • More Sleep Would Be Nice

        Oh, and undergrad was a large in-state school, considered a “public ivy”

    • Lucky Girl

      My parents paid 100% of my state school undergraduate education and then basically nothing else for 20 years (although I lived with them rent-free for six months when I graduated and was studying for the bar, waiting for results, saving up first and last month). They married young (in their teens due to an unplanned pregnancy)) and were scrimping and saving my entire childhood and young adulthood while first one and then the other finished school/military service. Growing up it was pretty lean and they were incredibly frugal, although we always had a safe place to live, food and the basics. Through my adulthood, they were always available if I needed it and I appreciated the security of knowing I would never end up on the streets but did not need money. And there were generous gifts to my kid (a laptop, a used car, a very expensive summer camp).

      Now I am 50 and they are paying my kid’s tuition for the private university she fell in love with. This is being funded by money they inherited from grandparents (grandparents were middle class but bought a house the 50’s in San Francisco that they owned until 2016) . And they have offered to pay me what they are currently paying in tuition so that I can go part time when kid graduates. Their rationale is that they want to travel with me while they are still young enough to do it (they are in their mid-70’s) and they know that as their only child I am the one who will be taking care of them as they get older. At this point, they have several million dollars in retirement and other savings accounts – not including the value of their house or the inheritance. And I am seriously thinking about it because I want to take the trips with them that we did not take while I was younger.

      None of this is fair and I recognize that I am a very, very lucky person.

    • Anon

      I’m still on their phone plan and they treat me and my family to vacations on occasion. These things are nice but not life-changing for me. What is life-changing is that they have a ton of savings and I will never have to fund their retirement or nursing care. I plan to take the same approach with my kids and save well for my own retirement so I’ll never be a burden them. If there’s money leftover to treat them to vacations, that’s great, but I consider saving well for my own retirement to be the biggest and most important gift.

  19. Anon

    I applied for an internal promotion in a sister department at work last week and am now rocketing through the interview process. Send advice because I’m 6 months pregnant and really want this role, but also want to be as transparent as appropriate about my pregnancy.

    • Coach Laura

      If you’re an internal candidate, you already have an edge because you know the company, the department, the primary players and the culture. That’s not to make you overconfident (because that happens with internal candidates) but the confidence that that gives you should outweigh any insecurity that you have because of being pregnant. Pregnancy, maternity and paternity leave happen. So do 4-8 week outages for surgeries/recoveries, for heart attacks, cancer, car accidents – many of which are unexpected and thus more problematic, in addition to normal job vacancy due to people leaving. So yes, be transparent but that shouldn’t be the focus. Rock the interview, focus on your future after returning from maternity leave and the benefits that you bring to the job and ignore the pregnancy. [Be ready to address it as the elephant in the room if they talk about continuity and/or the time you might be out of the office. It may be illegal/unethical to ask but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t thinking it.] It would be good if you’ve given the leave and resulting effects a lot of thought and can anticipate any problems that might occur. Good luck!

  20. Senior Attorney

    OMG we started watching Squid Game last night and shockingly, Hubby and I both loved it. That is all.

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