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Updated: Nov 1, 2018 196 Comments · by

Tuesday’s TPS Report: Tonal Zigzag Skirt

The Personal Shopper (TPS) | ·

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Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. M Missoni Tonal Zigzag SkirtI'm not usually a fan of knit skirts, but I am majorly lusting over this one from M Missoni. The vertical zigzag lines (black on black) are amazing, and the crochet-like details on the bottom hem are interesting without being overly flirty. I even like the not-quite A-line shape to it. The skirt is $345, available for pre-order at Nordstrom. M Missoni Tonal Zigzag Skirt Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-2)

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Comments

  1. New PM

    I was late replying to yesterday’s thread. Thank you to all of you who offered advice on tracking tasks and recommended the getting things done book. I’m hopeful it will make a difference.

    • Almost There

      I missed yesterday’s thread and can’t find what you’re referring to – what is the getting things done book? Sounds great!

      • Mpls

        It’s called “Getting Things Done” by David Allen. It’s a getting organized book – he talks through techniques to figure out what works best for you.

    • M-C

      Totally right! And even before you get the book you can sign up for free on rememberthemilk.com, and start making lists right now :-). Accessible from your smartphone.. I’m totally thrilled with it.

  2. DCM

    Tj related to yesterday’s thread. Does anyone know which style blogger frequently wears pocket squares with her suit jackets? I remember someone mentioning her here but can’t recall the blog. I loved her style and would love to follow her. Thanks!

  3. Anon

    Random rant alert. My officemate has had a cold for the last month. She’s still coughing, hacking, and clearing her throat about every ten minutes. She also, for some reason, has started stamping her foot (like you’d do if you were trying to get something off your shoe). She broke her leg awhile back and I thought maybe the leg still hurt and the stamping had to do with that. I asked if her leg was still bothering her and she assured me that, no, it’s finally all healed. She also occasionally whistles to herself. I realize the cold-related noises are not at all her fault and I’m sure it’s very frustrating to have a cold for a month. But wtf on the stamping and the whistling? She’s also sort of my boss (she’s the team lead for my project) which makes it more difficult to say something, but I’m still not sure how I’d go about saying “can you please not stamp your foot?” I mean, who stamps their foot as a regular part of their work day? And if you don’t realize that audibly whistling in your office is annoying, I’m not sure what help there is for you. (All this being said, she’s a very nice person. It’s just that the snuffling/stamping/singing is getting on my admittedly hormonal nerves this morning.) End rant.

    • Almost There

      I’m sure someone will have some good advice, but not me – but I totally hear you. I share half a cube (don’t ask) with a guy who kind of slams his hands down all the time, making everything on the desk jump. It’s not an angry thing, he just is a nervous person, but when you share space, it’s SO annoying! But I am generally super sensitive to people making annoying noises.

    • violet

      For the foot stamping, could you take your previous question about her leg further? Like, say something like, “are you stamping your foot b/c it’s asleep? I’ve read that can happen after surguery.” Don’t give her time to answer the initial question. Hopefully she will get the hint that her stamping is noticable and will quit. You could also ask her what tune she is whistling. Basically try to bring up the stuff in a non-confrontational way so that she realizes people notice. And you could bring her a cough drop.

    • momentsofabsurdity

      I stamp my feet when I’m cold. Not at my desk, but if I’m standing at a crosswalk or something and freezing, I might blow into my hands and stomp my foot. So it’s possible it’s related to the cold and her having the chills, maybe?

    • e_pontellier

      My DH stomps his foot at his desk at home sometimes, and he doesn’t realize he’s doing it. If I stomp my foot as soon as I hear him do it, he realizes he’s doing it and stops. SUPER passive-aggressive, but I don’t care too much except to bring it to his attention. If you really want to avoid confrontation, maybe (lightly) stomping your foot sometimes to bring it to her attention? (yes, this will probably make it on STFUc-r-tt-e)

    • Jordan

      Try joke venting. If it’s funny enough, it’s not passive aggressive.

      “Are you opening peanuts over there?” I figure with the election over, we can make elephant jokes at work again without insinuating political affliation.

      “Did you take up the drums?” better yet, “have you been playing rock band in the evenings again? you really have to look into playing air guitar and air tamborine if you are ever going to be a one woman band.”

      Insert marching band joke, sewing machine joke, telling the downstairs neighbors to pipe down joke, tap dance joke, race car driving joke, are we done with dance dance revolution is that a thing still? joke, my dog does that when I scratch him in the right place joke. I could keep going but I will go back to work now.

    • Meg Murry

      does she realize she’s whistling? I’ll admit, I have a terrible habit of softly humming to myself when I song is stuck in my head and I don’t even realize I’m humming it when I’m concentrating on something (or daydeaming). I try to be conscious of it, but it gets worse when I’m tired or stressed, so I’ve let a few coworkers I’m close to know and asked them to say “hey Meg, stop humming” when/if I start. Could you just say “hey, I’m trying to concentrate, would you stop whistling?” or could you put on some soft background music to keep her from whistling?

      Also, after a month it’s reasonable to say “hey, have you been to a doctor about that cough? It seems to have benn lingering for a long time and I’m worried about you”. I know that’s what it took to get me to go to a doctor when I had a cold that stretched out for a month and turned out not to be a cold at all.

      if all else fails – headphones with classical music or white noise can help drown some of it out. Good luck!

    • Seriously

      No advice, but commiseration here.

      Driving into work DH whistled and sang ONE LINE FROM A SONG for the entire twenty minute drive in. I had not had my coffee, we were running late, and I’m not used to being without a car all day, so I was already irritable. Oh how I wanted to tell him to be quiet.

      Also, my office mate has been questioning everyone in the office for about 45 minutes regarding missing pieces from something at her desk. I’m close to offering to buy her a new one so she just stops.

    • Almost There

      I vote purple, but would mention that if you have a smart phone, you might be happier with gloves with tech-touch or whatever they call it, so you don’t have to take off your glove to answer your phone/text.

      • Mpls

        Even the tech-touch stuff stops working after awhile. I’ve heard that if you lick you screen (yes, gross, I know) you can then use your regular gloves on a touch screen. Or you could always use your nose :)

        • emcsquared

          I’ve tried the nose thing – it didn’t work. Made me wonder if I have a synthetic nose, but I probably just had awful aim.

    • JessBee

      Oooh, very nice– I like the gunmetal a lot! I say since they’re on sale, get them both! ;)

    • Cb

      I’ve started buying multiple pairs of fairly cheap gloves because I inevitably lose one or two a month.

    • just Karen

      Depends on the color of your coat – if it’s a neutral, go for the purple, but if it’s a color, go for gunmetal. Both look lovely and I am jealous :) Our contractor surprised us with a bill last night that was $9000 over the last estimate, so it will be a while before I get to buy some pretties…enjoy them for me!

  5. C

    Ok, ladies.

    I’m looking for a new purse. I like a shoulder strap, with a drop of at least 8.5″ (I have big arms) and something with structure (so not a hobo.) I really like oxblood – but a lot of the purses I’ve seen are really busy, with zippers, logos and tassels all over the place. Dream bags include the Tory Burch East-West tote in oxblood, the new Michael Kors Blake (only $1,100!) or the Kate Spade Cobble Hill Andee in purple.

    I’m looking to spend under $300 – shipping to Canada included. Any thoughts?

    I would really appreciate your help! I’ve been searching for what feels like ever.

    • Merabella

      I don’t have a particular bag in mind, but I LOVE my structured Cole Haan purse. I got it on sale, but the leather is amazing, and the color is awesome. I have mine in a bright green, but I’m sure there are some great red colors available. I’m hard on bags and it has held up well and I always get compliments on it.

      • C

        Good to know – I’ve never gotten a Cole Haan bag before, which is strange, because I love their shoes! The brand just always falls off my radar for some reason.

    • anonz

      I don’t have a particular one in mind either, but I’ve had good luck with Hobo International bags

  6. Host Gift?

    I just learned that my boss will be hosting this year’s holiday party at his house. It’s a dinner party, on a Saturday evening. Any thoughts about host/hostess gifts? My fallback will be a nice bottle of wine, but I was hoping to go with something more creative. You are all so creative (and socially spot-on), I figured I’d pick your brains on this one.

  7. Loose

    Ladies, my boyfriend of 5 months said something so incredibly hurtful I just don’t know if I can continue with the relationship. I’d appreciate your thoughts on how I can move forward. I really enjoy being with him, we have a fantastic time together, and it kills me to think of never seeing him again. He’s a quiet, reserved kind of guy and I talked to him over the weekend about being more open with showing me he cares because the lack of feedback makes me insecure. He was receptive and agreed he could and should do more. The next morning he stopped in the middle of a lady garden party and said he doesn’t get enough friction sometimes and thinks I’m not tight enough. I’m in my late 20s, no kids, never had complaints from any other gentleman callers.

    I’m absolutely devastated. I feel embarrassed and dirty and disgusting and like I’ll never be good enough for anyone because there’s something very very wrong with me. Even if he’s right, it was incredibly inconsiderate for BF to bring it up when he did and the way he did – he did NO research to see what the problem is or whether anything can be done about it – and it just shows a total lack of empathy. He was genuinely shocked that I was incredibly hurt because he figured we would talk and I would just do keg*ls. I sent him the Dan Savage column about the death grip during man statue parties because I suspect that’s the real problem and BF agreed that might have something to do with it. But now I feel horrible about myself and worse about the relationship; I pretty much never want to invite him or anyone else to a lady garden party again. I told BF I need time to process this and decide whether I want to stay in this relationship. How do I get over this, either in this relationship or not? How can I recover my confidence? TIA everyone.

    • anonz

      It’s not you, it’s him. He should be happy he’s having lady garden parties at all! Maybe he’s too small and THAT is the problem.

      • MacKaylaLane

        +100.

        That was my first thought. How is anybody “not tight enough”? It really sounds like he’s feeling insecure about his OWN size.

    • Diana Barry

      Good grief. I think his man statue is not manly enough for your ladygarden!

      I would repeat to him that this is VERY hurtful to you. He may just be clueless, but some serious groveling is needed should you want to stay with him.

      • NOLA

        It’s clearly a garden gnome, not a man statue. OP, I overheard my ex-BF saying something equally hurtful about me to our couples therapist and I can’t believe I stayed with him for one minute after that. It was the beginning of the end. He sounds like he just doesn’t get it.

        • KC

          Cracking up over the garden gnome terminology – I love you ladies.

          To the OP: I think the timing was terrible and I would be upset as well if my BF chose mid-garden party to bring up something like this. I’m sorry to hear this makes you feel “dirty” – the size of your garden is absolutely not a reflection of your penchant for partying/previous guests/etc.

          I can see how your BF might have interpreted the previous conversation as a solicitation for any and all feedback. I think it’s important that you let him know that a) that you appreciate his attempts at openness, but that there are more appropriate times for such conversations, b) how the phrasing of the comment made you feel (ie. the confidence part), and c) how you think meaningful conversations could best occur in the future. If there is a certain sort of feedback you were hoping to receive after the previous chat, you might need to be more specific about that. For example, if you were hoping for more clarity about his feelings for you, tell him that explicitly.

          • Lyssa

            Well said, KC. I was thinking that this sounds like one of those classic “guy can’t figure out what he did wrong” cliches. The OP asked for feedback, but she wanted to hear “I care about you” more (but probably thought that was too cheesy sounding to say specifically); he heard “feedback” and assumed she meant it in the same way that people do in the workforce – “give me some things that I can use to improve my performance” sort of way. Add to that his fairly stupid (but again, completely guy-like) mistake of bringing it up at exactly the wrong time, and, well, you’re pretty much at “If you don’t know what’s wrong, I’m not going to tell you” territory.

            Basically, the OP just needs to explain what she means a little bit better, and he just needs to think before he speaks a little more. Definitely doesn’t seem worth ending a relationship over.

    • Almost There

      I’m pretty sure if that was me, I’d have told him he should wish for a bigger d*** instead of a tighter you.

      • just Karen

        I wouldn’t have said this because I would have been too shocked and hurt, but it’s the type of thing I really WISH I would think to say!

    • springtime

      Ouch. That would sting.

      Your post is a bit confusing- did you tell him you want him to give you more feedback about how much he cares, so this is what he thought would be ‘feedback?’ Or are the two unrelated?

      • Loose

        I think he thought that he could feel comfortable bringing up bedroom issues with me because I brought up verbal intimacy issues with him. But clearly this is NOT the way to bring it up. It just makes it so much worse that I told him the night before I was feeling insecure about us and then he says something like that the next morning.

        • springtime

          Maybe I’m cynical, but it sounds like he lashed out because you brought up a concern (which asked him to show you more love because you LIKE hearing those things from him) and he retaliated by telling you how maybe you’re not ‘good enough’. Um what?

          Yah, I’d be hurt too.

          • Loose

            I actually asked him that. I think I might actually feel better if it were vindictive because at least it would show that he appreciates just how hurtful saying that can be. But no, he just didn’t think it was a big deal, didn’t think through how I might react.

          • springtime

            K well maybe then he’s just a bit clueless. I will get off my judge-y horse for a minute.

            What others suggested below sound like a good plan. Good luck :)

          • Sadie

            Oh, I think he did know exactly how you’d react.
            I think as women we excuse a lot of bad behavior from men because the ‘just didn’t think about it like we do’. Sometimes, yes. Other times, BULL.a
            He just didn’t think stopping in the middle of sex to tell you that you were sexually inadequate for him would be troublesome? Oh please.

            He was retaliating, the most hurtful way he could think of. Just saying something wouldn’t make me think that, but the WAY and TIME he chose to say it, with the proximity to your request of him? Puh leeze.

          • anon too

            I am also of the opinion that he was not entirely clueless and innocent in choosing to say that when he did.

            And really, if you are dating someone who, as an already grown adult, is SO INCREDIBLY CLUELESS as to say something like that to you in the middle of sex, is this really the sort of person you want to stay with to either (1)’work’ on them not being a jerk at the times it hurts you most, or (2) accept you want to be with someone who doesn’t see anything wrong with stabbing you where it hurts the most? If he really has come this far in life thinking this was acceptable, that’s not going to dramatically change in the last ten years.

            But really, he’s just a passive-aggressive a-hole. Does it even matter, really, whether he’s a meanie or someone who is just so clueless that you could be torn to shreds any time you try to be close to him?

    • Eleanor

      I agree it was bizarre and inconsiderate of him to bring this up in the middle of a ladygarden party, but I don’t understand why you feel disgusting or embarrassed. Surely neither you nor he thinks you did anything wrong here, right? Did he say something to make you feel “dirty?”

      Fromwhat you’ve said, it doesn’t sound like he thinks there’s something inadequate or wrong about you, just that he thought you might be able to do something to help him enjoy the party more. That may or may not be true, and the issue may be more a result of the death-grip, as you said, but it sounds like he agreed you might have a point about that.

      It seems good for adults in a relationship to talk about this stuff – just maybe not in the middle of the lady garden party.

      • springtime

        I dunno- what if I stopped in the middle of a party and said “um- your statue is too small- I can’t feel anything”. Or even if I said that two days later.

        Surely the guy would think I was a total jerk.

        • Sadie

          Exactly, “honey, sometimes I don’t get enough friction, maybe we can try some new positions’ is trying to improve ladygarden life.

          He actually TOLD HER, in the MIDDLE of ladygarden party, “you’re not tight enough”.

          I’m not sure on what planet actually insulting your partner’s anatomy in the middle of the party would be anything other than awful.

          • Eleanor

            Like I said, I agree both the comment and the timing were inconsiderate – though how inconsiderate the comment was depends on that actual wording – but if he’s kind of awkward and misinterpreted her request to be more open, I can see how someone could make a mistake like this and still be a decent person. If the OP does like him, as it sounds like she did until now, isn’t it worth it to tell him how his comment made her feel, and discuss how he can raise an issue like that in a better way, rather than break up with him without giving him a chance to fix it?

    • JessC

      It sounds like he may have taken your telling him to be more open with you too far. There is an appropriate time/place to have those discussions. The middle of a lady garden party ain’t it. I would try saying something, “I appreciate that you’re trying to be more open with me, but how and when you said that really, really hurt my feelings. I want to be able to have those discussions with you, just not like that.”
      All that aside, I think it’s totally appropriate of you to ask yourself whether you want to stay in this relationship. Lady garden parties are an important part of a romantic partnership and knowing that your partner feels less than 100000% enthusiastic about it with you can be a real dealbreaker. I think you may need to give it a little time and see how he responds to your feelings in the matter (he’s all “whatevs” or does he apologize and try to make you feel better/more confidant).

    • Blonde Lawyer

      It might be good to have a talk with him about the difference between things one can fix immediately and one they can’t and how the two require different approaches. We have discussed that here regarding whether to tell someone their dress has a tag still on it (yes) or that their dress is showing VPL (no).

      He might have wrongly interpreted the advice in magazines about telling your partner what you need during intimate times. There is a difference between put your finger here or touch my __ and your ____ isn’t big enough or your _____ isn’t tight enough.

      The only immediate solution to the latter is to try a different position that makes him feel bigger you feel smaller. It makes perfect sense to be really hurt but it might be worth having another conversation about communicating to see if it can be fixed.

      In the meantime, the two of you can do other things together that involve other body parts to build back your trust and intimacy before going for the whole party.

      • Blonde Lawyer

        When I say fixed, I’m referring to his communication issues, not your body. Your body is perfect just the way it is and does not need to be fixed. He needs to fix how he communicates! I hope that is more clear.

    • TCFKAG

      Okay — so let’s start off with the relatively easy (to say, though not necessarily to believe) part of this — even if its true that he doesn’t get enough “friction” during ladygarden parties — it still wouldn’t be true that you were somehow “dirty” because of it. Because people come in all shapes and sizes naturally and that includes in their ladygardens. So the level of “stretch” in your ladygarden does not make you a sl*t — and if you’ve never had any complaints about this before and other gentlemen have seemingly enjoyed themselves — then you can probably assume it hasn’t been a huge problem (every guy is different too).

      So there are two issues here. (1) He seems to have some serious communication and intimacy issues. You gave him permission/asked him to communicate more and this is what he chose to communicate and how he chose to communicate it. Not exactly winning in the communication department. But, before you kick him out entirely — if you think this is a relationship worth saving — maybe sit down with him and talk with him about it. Acknowledge that its really hard to talk about issues in the ladygarden department and you understand that it can be awkward, but that bringing it up when he did was really not ideal. And that it really hurt your feelings.

      (2) The second issue that you seem to be struggling with is that you think that you two are s*xually incompatible. Now (assuming that you don’t decide you’re emotionally incompatible and decide to chuck him…see above) — there are definitely ways to address the issue he raised. Two I can think of are Kegel Exercises or different positions that change the angle of entry (and such). Both of these things would probably help, but they will take time and patience and frankly a level of trust that I’m not sure you can establish without better communication. So you are going to need to be able to sit down with BF and talk to him about this. Or, if you decide to ditch him, you may need to be able to talk to the next ladygarden visitor about this — if its still something you feel anxious about.

      Anyway — sorry if this doesn’t make sense or isn’t helpful.

      • TBK

        +100000. Maybe there’s more to it, but based on what you wrote here, he strikes me as clueless more than anything else. First, a lot of guys don’t get enough practice or information on being emotionally intimate while they’re growing up then have to learn all at once in the context of romatic relationships. Second, guys get dumb, dumb information from friends, online, magazines, etc. about gardens, gardening, shrubbery, and all things garden. (My husband had two serious girlfriends before me and he STILL has some crazy-@ss ideas about gardening sometimes.) The timing was stupid. But maybe he thought you could just flex your kegels and fix it in the moment, in which case, his timing doesn’t seem so crazy (wrong, but not jerk-ish). I’d take about 20 steps back. Clearly this is an area where you feel sensitive and insecure. If you haven’t had conversations like this before, he might have NO IDEA that this is a hot button for you (you might not have realized it was a hot button). If everything else about the relationship is good, I certainly wouldn’t end it over this, not before having a conversation about it.

      • Loose

        To both TCFKAG and Blonde Lawyer – these issues are part of the reason I’m so hurt. Yes, he should be able to talk about bedroom issues, but should do it in a respectful, considerate, and constructive way. If his statute was too small, I wouldn’t tell him because it’s just going to hurt his feelings; I would suggest we try other positions. He didn’t do any research in advance, he didn’t say we should look up solutions together, he just suggested I do keg*ls. I’d expressed interest in playing with ben wa balls together before all this; if this was a concern for him he should’ve been all over that. Instead his approach just seems like, this is an issue with YOU that YOU need to fix. I told him exactly that and he disagreed that that was his approach, but even in the few days since that initial conversation he hasn’t looked up solutions.

        • Loose

          I meant to add, thanks to everyone so far. We did talk about it right after he said it. I told him a lot of the things that you all have suggested – that it was NOT OK to bring it up when he did, and he should’ve done his research first, but that I do want to know about issues and how to fix them. He apologized for hurting me. But I guess don’t know what I want or expect from him now. I agree with Diana Barry that some serious groveling is needed, but he hasn’t really done anything other than to say “sorry for hurting you.”

          • e_pontellier

            Yeah btw, “sorry for hurting you” is the most back-handed, passive-aggressive apology ever. It’s not sorry for hurting you. He should be sorry for being insensitive, sorry for being a jerk, sorry for being rude, sorry for being mean, sorry for every saying anything remotely negative about your beautiful, coveted lady garden and his access thereto, and he should probably buy you flowers every week for the rest of your life.
            /end rant/ and HUGS because what he said was just so wrong.

          • Anon

            Not to hijack this thread, but e_pontellier, I really hope that you bring this attitude to your husband the next time he says/does something jerk-like.

          • Anon

            (I’m Anon from 11:28) and I give you a high five! That is really good to hear :)

    • momentsofabsurdity

      I don’t blame you for feeling incredibly hurt. I think what he said WAS hurtful, but it sounds like you don’t think it was vindictive, just extremely clueless. TBH, the last time I heard any dude (not even lady garden party attendee) mention ANYTHING about tight/”loose”ness, I think I was in high school. It’s a high school boy concern, not a grown up adult man concern. If he said it to lash out at you, I’d be really concerned. If he said it because he’s honestly just that dumb, I’d be really hurt and sad, but not necessarily to the point of ending a relationship with someone I cared about.

      Is that a surmountable issue? I think so. Clueless you can teach, vindictive you can’t fix.

      You should know you’re not dirty or weird or a sl*t – and I’m guessing you don’t even *really* have a problem (especially if no medical professional has mentioned anything) and there’s a good chance it is related to the death grip issue. Did you make the analogy to the size of his garden gnome? I think that’s fitting.

      I also wouldn’t accept a “sorry you were offended” apology. I would want a real apology – I’m sorry I criticized you at an incredibly inopportune time, without even thinking about how it would make you feel, and I was really thoughtless in the way I treated you. If he can’t recognize all those things are true, I WOULD consider ending it.

      I’m sorry your BF was so hurtful! I hope it all works out.

    • N.

      Oh good lord, I can’t possibly imagine a worse way for someone to bring up a lady garden party problem. Leaving aside whether this particular incident is forgivable or not, it sounds like being in a relationship with this guy more generally is just not making you feel confident and secure. If you need quite a lot more verbal feedback than he typically provides, and if this is his attempt at trying to fix that problem, then you’ve got a really big gap between your needs and his ability to meet them. At this point I’d be wondering whether you’re both able and willing to invest the time and energy it would take to arrive at a place where you’re both happy in the relationship, or if you just need to find someone more compatible.

    • Another consideration

      There were lots of great comments here. Let me add one I’m surprised no one has suggested— this could also be an indirect way of beginning a conversation about an*l, if it’s not already part of your repertoire with him.
      (A really stupid, insensitive comment, no matter what he’s getting at, though.)

    • Jordan

      Maybe he does know that this was hurtful and he is trying to self-destruct the relationship based on his own insecurity about where the relationship is going. I do not know him but I would have a hard time believing that he won’t do it again (wrong time/place + very hurtful info).

      I guess no matter what you do just know that partners who have communication issues that are unwilling to work toward fixing them are not worth it in the long term.

      He is either responding to some miscommunication about what you said earlier, or completely inept at communicating in the first place.

    • Herbie

      I’m surprised by all the “Oh, maybe he’s clueless” comments. You’ve only been with him 5 months, and part of the point of dating is to find out if someone’s a closet a$$hole. Well, guess what? I think he just let his a$$hole flag fly. I vote DTMFA.

      • karenpadi

        Second this. In a previous relationship, I thought I could fix “clueless”. No, he was faking clueless to hide passive-aggression and laziness. It’s a sign the guy is a man-child instead of an adult man. DTMFA.

        BTW, with “death grip” guys, no women is ever tight enough–either v*ginal or an*l.

        • Herbie

          I mean, we really have such low standards for our partners’ emotional IQs that this sort of f$ckery is excusable as clueless?

          • karenpadi

            So true and why I’m still single. I refuse to believe that a grown man who can successfully navigate office politics lacks the emotional maturity to display some compassion for those he claims to love.

      • Research, Not Law

        This, this, this!!!

        It’s not so much the comment (which was a fail, but forgivable) as the timing. He’s inconsiderate. That will never change. DROP HIM.

      • Senior Attorney

        I agree with this. If somebody does something that makes you feel this awful, this early in the relationship, it’s almost certain that it’s not going to be a one-time occurrence. The point of dating is to figure out if the person is a good match for you, and I’d say behavior like this is going to be disqualifying in almost every case, absent VERY extenuating circumstances that don’t seem to be present here.

    • Brant

      I’m going to take the BF’s side on this one. I don’t think you’re wrong to feel hurt, but I think this could easily have been a case of crossed wires.

      I love my DH. He is not a good communicator. If I just had a heart-to-heart with him about needing more communication/feedback from him, and then we had an LGP and he said something like that, I would be hurt for sure, because it sounds insulting. In fact, though, I think he was probably trying to make an effort to give you the feedback/openness you had just asked for, thinking you’d just do k*gels– and not at ALL that he thinks you’re inadequate. If he had said, “I really like it when you do k*gels” instead of what he actually said, would you have been insulted?

      If you like the guy, give him some tips on how to appropriately ask for things in the bedroom, and move past this. He probably feels awful.

    • Ms. Pacific

      This is terrible! Seconding a lot of things the other wise ladies have said here, with this addition: there are fellows out there who will be _thrilled_ to be invited to your ladygarden parties. If this guy has turned out to be a lousy guest, a re-draft of the invitation list may be in order. Life is too short to have ladygarden parties that make you anxious about whether your garden is good enough. Tell him and his itsy-bitsy-teeny-weeny garden gnome to go home or find a tiny bonsai plant party or something so you can find yourself a worthy gardener.

    • LadyEnginerd

      I’m not convinced he’s a total jerk, but I don’t think the jerk/clueless distinction matters one single bit. Jerk and clueless result in the exact same thing: you feeling hurt when you let yourself be vulnerable and he either stomps stomps on your feelings (jerk) or steps in it big time (clueless). Loose cannon and cannon shot at you in anger both end up with you hurt… is it really necessary to dissect the situation to figure out which it is?

      Even MORE concerning to me is that he hasn’t been sufficiently apologetic/empathetic after being told he stepped in it and said something that made you feel really awful. I don’t even care if you’re overreacting – this is your reaction, and if he can’t take at face value that your feelings are very hurt and react appropriately to your level of hurt feelings, this does not bode well for future incidents of accidental feeling-hurting (which is unavoidable in relationships).

      I too would feel used if I had been thinking I was hosting a perfectly civilized garden party and my guest behaved poorly either because they didn’t know proper party etiquette (clueless) or they didn’t care if they broke some of my fine china (jerk). But either way, I wouldn’t invite either back again unless they went to charm school or tried to fix what they broke and made a real commitment to being a good party guest in the future.

    • Elle

      Even if he is clueless, why would you want him? No one with half a brain on the entire planet would think it’s fine to say those things to you. I feel like lots of women twist themselves around to excuse hurtful sh*t that men say. Especially if men pretend not to “know what’s wrong”. Don’t stick around til the facade drops and you see he’s an assh*le.

      Btw, I’d test out his theory. Tell him you think he is much smaller than average, and that’s the problem. If he gets offended, that’s your answer. If not, then maybe (if you want to play emotional gatekeeper to some emotionally stunted loser for the rest of your life) give him a shot.

    • Anon

      Look, he shouldn’t have presented it when/how he did. His delivery sucked, and it really hurt your feelings. All very fair. But are you going to break up with a well-meaning guy bc he has bad timing? That seems lame.

      On the other hand, think about how he handles issues more generally. Is he a blame-shifter? Does he have a hard time being vulnerable and/or wrong (such that he’d lash out at you if something embarrassing was going on for him)? These are legitimate reasons to end a relationship, even with someone you care about, and they very likely would manifest as making a dumb-a$$ comment about your lady garden, at a terribly chosen time.

      As for the rest of it, buck up. You are fine. He has a death grip. Guaranteed.

      Focus on how he communicates more generally.

    • Anon for this one.

      This is a late comment, but I hope you get to see it and hope it helps.

      I was on the receiving end of the very same comment – multiple times from the same guy – although not *during* the garden party itself. Please don’t think that there’s anything wrong with your reaction. I was similarly devastated. This was the second person I’d been with, and I didn’t think that *any* of the things I had done beforehand could have led to this issue. And yet… I believed that something was wrong with me. I, too, felt dirty and embarrassed and that no one could ever want me because of this. For a fleeting moment, I considered surgery (something which today, I cannot BELIEVE crossed my mind). One of my regrets is that I didn’t progress beyond being hurt and devastated and desperately trying to fix myself because of what he said. I don’t know why it never crossed my mind that he was simply unskilled, or maybe a gnome rather than a man statue.

      If I could do everything over/if I were in your shoes:

      – Seriously consider his reaction and other behaviour to see if this was a genuine, but clueless attempt at communicating as opposed. If yes, then I would ask him to work on it. If no, then I would take this as a red flag that he either doesn’t care for me as much as he should have (who says these things to people they care for, knowing that it would hurt them deeply?) or simply someone who is not capable of reacting in a proper, adult way to such situations. If it was the latter, I would seriously consider whether I want to spend the rest of my life with such a person.

      – Bear in mind that I should not be the one making huge efforts to explain away the incident or provide justifications for his behaviour. If the relationship means enough to him, HE should be the one providing the explanations or justifications and HE should be the one who’s worried about the relationship ending because of this one statement.

      – Finally, and without levelling any blame at myself, I would consider whether I did have any medical issues that needed to be dealt with. In my case, I did have a condition which might result in less friction, which was quickly dealt with and cleared up.

      Overall, I’d say that if you get the sense that he loves you enough to overlook the garden-party issues or try to fix them, then maybe it’s worth it to continue. Or rather, if he loves you enough to make efforts to change and make you feel secure in the relationship, maybe it’s worth it. If it’s all about him and his enjoyment of garden parties, though… then you really have to think about whether you’re willing to settle for something as half-assed as that.

  8. Big girl

    Ugh.

    Note to self : when will you learn to keep your big mouth shut, self ? Especially in front of a person whose income depends on the very thing you’re questioning. And double especially when this person can talk her way around pretty much any argument. And triple especially when you’re not exactly blameless yourself.

    Sorry, just had to vent.

    • KC

      Hugs. We all have those moments. Sometimes asking the hard questions is necessary. If you feel like you’ve overstepped and an apology is in order, do that. Otherwise, venting here is good and it will blow over soon :)

    • Jordan

      I was just noticing yesterday as I was taking my foot out of my mouth that I could really use a pedicure.

  9. Almost There

    Random, but… when did people start saying “get a coffee” instead of “get some coffee” or “a cup of coffee”? Maybe this is regional but it weirds me out! What do you call it?

    • Anon

      I think this varies by region and country. I hear “get a coffee” a lot in English-speaking countries that aren’t the USA.

    • e_pontellier

      This drives me crazy!!!!!!!!! I don’t understand it at all. It’s either “get coffee” or “get a cup of coffee.”

    • Cb

      I picked up get a coffee abroad. I also say ‘have a wine’ but this is leftover from my adorable German roommate who literally meant a bottle of wine.

        • Cb

          My parents brought California wine when they came to visit and her face lit up and she said, ‘ooooh, wine!’ which is now what we say whenever we open a bottle.

          I am linguistically impressionable and live with 20 ESL students. My English is definitely deteriorating as I pick up things. I was on skype with a friend and had to answer my door for a query and she was joking that I was using my RA voice: bright, cheery, and quite simplified.

  10. Batgirl

    Hey gang, it’s been a while since I’ve posted, but I obsessively read your comments all day long (and sometimes post under other names). I’ve posted about this before, but it’s really eating me up today and I could use some hive wisdom.

    I graduated from law school in 2008, worked at a big firm for about 2.5 years before leaving to work as a litigator in a two-year position with a major non-profit. The two years are almost up and while I may get to stay on, I’m thinking hard about next steps.

    Here’s the tricky part. I don’t think that I want to practice law any more. I find it tedious and boring but also don’t know what would make me happy. I am very interested in continuing to work in the non-profit world (think global development, women’s health, etc) but am worried about getting a senior enough position to guarantee a good income.

    I have about $60K left on my law school loans (down from $140K) and it’s been tough to make ends meet on my current $70K salary (in NYC). I’m considering going back to my old law firm, despite hating it and being pretty miserable there before. I can’t help but think that it’d be worth it to put in another 2-3 years, pay off my loans, and save a bit more. But what about the 2-3 years of misery? And I don’t know if I’d be shooting myself in the foot professionally if I want to take a non-legal job afterward.

    Any advice is truly welcome. Am I too worried about finances? Should I just rest assured that I will make more money as time passes? I’m 33 years old, with my boyfriend for about 7 months, not sure where things are headed (but hope they’ll continue to progress) and want to have kids in the next 3-4 years.

    THANK YOU!

    • anon

      I would go back, put every available dime on those loans until they are paid, then move on.

      And I do mean every available dime. Budget so tight it squeaks. Get it done.

      Having 60K hanging over your head for the rest of your life because you don’t have the income to pay it off is just not ok. And if you are going to have kids in a couple years, what then? Are you staying home (no income at all) are you working (have you priced daycare? On top of your student loans?)

      I know everyone is always all ‘follow your bliss’, but you also need to be realistic. Realize, too, that if you and your honey get married, (or you get married at all), your husband’s income counts for determining if you qualify for IBR unless you guys file your taxes separately(which is usually not the best for taxes). So depending on what your significant other does and earns, you could be income leveled out of IBR even if you’re unemployed.

      Just my thoughts, things to consider!!!Obvs, finding a decent paying job you like is ideal, this is for if that doesn’t pan out.

      • anon

        anon from above, by ‘not ok’, I didn’t mean morally. I meant “coming from someone who has declared bankruptcy, trust me, it’s not ok’. Like, for your mental health.

      • Batgirl

        Thanks for your input. I tend to agree re: practicality. Following my bliss is important to me, but I can also follow it in a few years.

        Quick sidenote: IBR doesn’t work for me b/c half of my remaining loans are private loans. My school’s loan forgiveness program is not an option either b/c of annoying eligibility rules they have.

        • Senior Attorney

          I agree with this. In the scheme of things, 2-3 years in the salt mines will be worth it to slay the debt dragon. And believe me, being debt free is pretty freakin’ blissful!

    • January

      I don’t have a lot of advice on your job situation – maybe you should try switching practice areas? It may be that you don’t like litigation vs. transactional, etc. I just wanted to say hi – I was wondering the other day how things were working out with your new guy, and I’m glad to hear it sounds like they’re going well!

      • Batgirl

        Oh you’re so sweet! I have to say, on the relationship front, things are going sooo well. Some of you may remember that i had a very crappy short-term relationship experience this time last year. I met my new guy almost immediately afterward as the result of a set-up that I wasn’t aware was happening until after the fact. He’s wonderful–so sweet and caring, we connect on every level, it’s wonderful. Just took him home to meet my family! Still, I’m trying not to put the cart ahead of the horse. It’s early! But very lovely. Makes me realize that I wasn’t doing anything “wrong” before…just hadn’t met the right guy. :)

    • ANP

      There are of course a million ways you could go about this. I’m not a lawyer but I like the idea of trying some other type of law. I also love the idea of being debt free — but on the flip side, life is too short to be miserable at work.

      I suggest this a lot on these boards, but I’ve seen many attorneys become planned giving officers at nonprofits. At a larger org (think international in scope, higher ed or healthcare) it’s possible to make six figures that way (possible — not ALWAYS likely, but definitely possible). I work in advancement (though am not an attorney) and find it incredibly fulfilling. Whatever you decide, good luck!

      • Batgirl

        ANP, thanks for posting! That’s exactly the kind of suggestion I was hoping to hear. I’m really interested in doing work with a major non-profit in a non-legal position. Do you know how I could get my foot in the door in a position like that? And would working at a firm for a few more years make me a less attractive candidate than one coming from within the organization? I expect that my time here would still count for something two to three years down the road.

        Thanks!

        • ANP

          Batgirl – I big pink puffy heart my job and would happily email you more about this topic. Do you have an email address I can send my thoughts to?

          In a nutshell, firm experience certainly won’t hurt you; the only issue might be that some places would balk at hiring b/c they’ll think you’ll expect a higher salary coming straight from a firm (vs. coming from another NPO). Advancement is one of the more lucrative sides of working at a NPO, however, and you can make great money. You can also make terrible money…depends on where your heart is, etc.

          If you want to talk more we can do that here or like I said, give me an email address and I’ll send you more scoop, as well as some possible online resources.

          • Batgirl

            That would be wonderful! If you’d like, you can just email me and I”ll respond with more specific questions. Just set this up (out of fear of putting my real email on the internet): emailbatgirl@gmail.com. Thanks!

    • Job Huntress

      I’m in the same graduating class and empathize completely. I hate my firm job, hate the work I have been doing for the past year (and there is not enough of it, so I am also expecting to be laid off), and, in general, my professional life is making me miserable. And I’ll still recommend going back to the firm and paying off those loans AGGRESSIVELY. At a fourth/soon to be fifth year salary you are grossing a lot more than you were as a second year, and, even at a fourth year salary, 140K more a year than you are making now. If you can live on your current salary, or even a bit more, you can have your loans paid off in less than ONE year at the firm. Once your loans are paid off, reassess, look for a job that will make you happier. It’s a lot easier to get by on a 70K salary when you aren’t putting $700/month towards loans.

      Whenever I want to throw in the towel (and I am looking for other jobs), I think about how far each of my paychecks goes toward my (and my husband’s) student load debt and how, even though I feel about ready to give up on law, I am certainly going to be bitter if ten years down the road I am still paying off this legal education at the expense of my (future) kids and my family’s goals.

    • Brant

      Am I doing the math wrong? If you only have $60k left in loans, and you go back to Big Law in NYC, wouldn’t you be adding at LEAST $150k to your annual salary? Take out half for taxes, and you’re still looking at an extra $75k after one year. Assming you are alrady making student loan payments of $700/month, my math says you’ll have your loans paid off + $10k in savings after one year.

      IYou could suck it up and go back for a year, pay down the loans and put a bit in the bank, then tell the nonprofit you went back to pay off your loans and are ready to work for them. If you are very nervous about your financial future, then stick it out for 18 months and put every penny into savings/retirement.

      • Batgirl

        No, you’re right. I anticipated making $220K and saving about 5K a month (trying to be realistic/modest). I think I could do it in less than a year, but I don’t want to be naive.

  11. Margaret

    Bra question: How long / how many wears do you expect a bra to last? I got a bra from N*rdstrom about seven months ago, wore it ~3x a week, washed it approximately once every 2 weeks, and now the underwires are wearing through and poking out the middle. Wondering if it’s fair to be annoyed and ask for a replacement, or if that is expecting too much from my bras? I love N*rdstrom and their return policy, but don’t want to abuse it.

    BTW, are my bra habits gross?

    • Lyssa

      I get the impression that it varies based on size (larger equals more wear and tear), but I’m fairly tiny and they tend to last me years on end. As in, I still have some from college, which I graduated from in 2002. I’m not a Nordie’s user (none in my area and I don’t online shop for clothing much), but I think taking it back sounds fair.

      I don’t think that your bra habits are gross – personally, I’ve never found a bra to smell after numerous wearings. I’m super-preggo now, and I’m down to 2 that I can actually wear (one of which is a struggle) and don’t want to buy more, so I’m pretty much wearing the same one 4-6 times a week and washing it whenever (probably every 2 weeks), but I think it’s working OK.

    • PharmaGirl

      I would probbaly toss it but, no, your bra habits are not disgusting! I do about the same and keep them for a few years! Someone more forward would probably ask for a replacement.

    • Another Zumba Fan

      When I got fitted at Nordtrom earlier this year, the salesperson told me you should buy new bras every six months. I don’t follow this rule of thumb btw.

    • M-C

      I would definitely wash it more than that, deodorant isn’t a panacea. But I’d expect my wacoals to last about 5 years at that regime, so if I were you I’d experiment with better brands..

    • Meg Murry

      are you drip drying or putting through the dryer? Regular washer cycle or delicates? My washer is really tough on clothes, I’ve found I get a much longer life out of the if I wash bras and delicates on the “handwash cycle and then line or flat dry.

    • SJ

      Last year I bought all new bras from Soma and I love them! I’m a 38C and I wash mine about every two weeks after wearing 2-3x a week and they’ve held up wonderfully well. You could’ve just gotten a defective bra or you could’ve gotten one that is prone to wearing out soon. My suggestion would be to buy a new one in a different brand/style and see if it holds up. And if you haven’t gotten measured for a bra in a while, it may be worth having that done too. I was wearing a too small bra and didn’t realize it but once I tried on the right size, it was a huge improvement.

    • Lady Harriet

      I’ve had bras wear out in that amount of time, and I’ve had ones that were still in good shape. I think a lot of it depends on the initial quality. I’ve definitely noticed a lot less wear and tear since I started buying more expensive bras, even though I wear them more often because I can’t afford to have as many.

    • Research, Not Law

      I rotate two and expect them to last a year (although I prefer – and usually get – longer). I’m a small band / large cup, so they don’t have an easy job. I admit that I don’t wash mine very frequently, so perhaps it’s washing related? I handwash mine.

    • Bluejay

      I’ve read that you should replace bras every 6 months. Mine start to stretch/tear/feel icky if I wear them regularly for 6-9 months.

    • Anonymous

      Seven months seems way too quick for it to be wearing with your bra habits, assuming it is a pretty nice bra. I have similar bra habits with N*rdstrom-type quality bras and they have lasted me years with minimal wear. I’d take it back so that, even if they won’t do anything for you (though I suspect they will), you can get some sort of indication of whether this is a brand that wears unusually quickly such that you should avoid it in the future.

  12. anonymiss

    Ladies, I have a beautiful shoe collection but my feet seem to be shrinking, making it hard for me to wear most of my heels. Are there insoles I could put in that would push my feet up and back a bit? Or should I try heel grips? I can’t afford to replace them, but right now at least 1/3 of the work shoe collection doesn’t fit.

    • anon

      This happens to me every time I lose 10 lbs. I’m on the edge of a size 8.5-9, and the weight loss is just enough to make my size 9 shoes loose. I’m dealing with it right now, as a matter of fact. I’ve had very good luck with Foot Petals Tip Toes as well as Foot Petals Heavenly Heelz, and sometimes use the two together.

    • Mpls

      I have been luck with adding cushioning under the ball of my foot to push the foot more securely back into the heel cup – I’ve never had any luck with the heel padding doing anything except coming out. As an added bonus, the ball-of-foot padding also keeps my toes from sliding into the toe of the shoe and getting pinched.

    • Ella

      The gel pads that sit at the ball of the foot always work to make a too-big shoe fit for me.

    • Big girl

      Insoles never work for me, so I just put a small bit of scrunched up paper towel in the toe box before each wear.

    • mamabear

      I have winter shoes and summer shoes. In the summer my feet are bigger and I dont wear hose, so i need bigger shoes. In the winter my feet are smaller and i wear tights, so my feet tend to slip out of my larger shoes. I either need to wear 1/2 size smaller or wear mary jane types to keep my be-stockinged foot from walking right out of my shoe.

      Does is sound like it could be your problem?

      I have not found the insole pads or heel pads all that helpful. I really just have to wear different shoes.

      Boots are by far the best for this issue.

      • anonymiss

        I will try the ball of feet cushions and the paper towels.

        I don’t really have the money to buy a separate shoe wardrobe for summer and winter (baby shark in NYC biglaw), but I’ve been trying mary janes and they definitely help.

        Thanks ladies!

  13. TO Lawyer

    Toronto meetup on Thursday, 7pm! I’m going to suggest the Black Moon Lounge (67 Richmond Street W) because it is very frequently empty or quiet and we’ll have plenty of room. I’ll send an email out to the email list too. Looking forward to seeing you ladies!

  14. CPA to be

    My last day of work at this job is tomorrow. I am taking the final section of the CPA exam on Thursday. On Friday, I’m going to visit a friend in Big Fancy City to buy all the clothes for my new job. I am so excited/nervous about this week. I woke up from a sound sleep around 6 a.m. and almost threw up. I’m completely useless right now. This is as bad as being in elementary school and waiting for Christmas vacation. Basically, I just have to get through the CPA exam, and then I have a month-long vacation until I start my new job. AHHHH.

    Seriously, how do I calm myself down and focus?

    • SF Bay Associate

      May I suggest not buying a whole new wardrobe until you start work? I’d hate for you to buy a ton of clothes at far away Big Fancy City and then realize your office culture is totally different than what you bought.

    • M-C

      Dont forget to breathe. Go lightly on the caffeine (and nicotine if it applies). But I’d also second SFBA’s advice, it’s very hard to buy a whole new wardrobe if you’re not actually in a situation yet..

  15. Maddie Ross

    A little shopping help — I see these brown leather moto-style jackets everywhere these days. I see them on TV shows and on celebs in gossip magazines all the time, but I cannot seem to find any in real life. And every time I see one I like, it somehow ends up being pleather from Express or something. I’m not knocking Express, but I’d really like a real leather one that will wear like real leather. Can anyone point me in the direction of such a coat? I’d like to ideally spend less than $250, but could go up a bit.

    • Suzer

      Thanks for posting that – I googled it and now know something new! One of my 6-year-old’s classmates told my husband yesterday “today’s a holiday!” When my husband asked what it was about about, the child said “I get to eat sweets!” Cute how kids’ priorities cross cultures . . .

    • Alanna of Trebond

      Happy Diwali from me as well. I am going to light candles tonight, and then it is my Kali puja tomorrow.

  17. Avodah

    I’ve posted a similar question, but I’d love some more feedback. I’m an EA in finance making a career change from academia to finance. My supervisors know that I hope to grow into a different role within the next 12 months.

    I attend networking events, guest speakers and lunch-n-learns to learn more about the industry and grow my professional network. However…

    When I tell people I am an EA the conversation stops. I think people assume I don’t have a desire to grow my career and learn. I want to explain that I am trying to grow and learn in the industry, but I dont want to suggest that I am dissatisfied with my job now. I love my job right now, but I just dont want to do it forever.

    Any thoughts on how to present that in a brief convo. at a cocktail hour or at a lunch without sounding weird?

    • Leslie Knope

      I was in a similar position–EA while going to school online for the career-goal professional position. I found it helpful to mention the EA work and segue into your future plans in the same breath. That way, the conversation can focus on the finance-career plans.

      However, it’s important to link those two concepts with “and” instead of “but” to put a positive light on both roles. If you say “I’m an EA at University X, BUT I’m working on a certification to move into finance,” it implies the dissatisfaction that you’re trying to avoid discussing. Saying “I’m an EA at University X, AND I’m working on a certification to move into finance” is more neutral, and the person you’re talking to can focus on either the EA part or the finance part without feeling like you’re defensive.

      • Avodah

        @ Leslie Knope- Thank you! That tiny word “and” makes a huge difference. My new mantra:

        “I am an EA at ___, AND I am working towards a position in the ___ group at our company.” “I love my job, AND I am so fortunate to learn more about finance by doing ___ projects.”

        Leslie- thanks a million. You just completely changd my “elevator pitch”.

    • Another Zumba Fan

      A little inspiration…Ursula Burns went from intern to EA to the CEO to CEO herself at Xerox.

    • Flamingo

      Is there a way to phrase your current position and aspirations in a different way? My suggestion would be to avoid saying “assistant” or “trying to”. Maybe something like: “I am in a support role at Firm X. I currently assist on projects related to Y, and I’m working towards transitioning to a full time role in finance within the next year.”

      You may have to find a project you are assisting with for this to work, but I’m guessing you are already working on stuff beyond your regular EA duties? Good luck!

      • Avodah

        Flamingo, Zumba Fan- thanks for the suggestions and support. This is really helpful.

        “I’m in a support role at My Company, and I assist with ___ &___ projects. I’m working towards transitioning to a role in ___ within the next year.”

        I’m really fortunate to have supervisors and colleagues who support my goals and ideas, so I do get some ad hoc projects. Thanks again!

  18. Jordan

    TJ RANT
    I find it incredibly unprofessional to be rude or demeaning to an opposing counsel, especially in front of a judge when your client is not present. I have experienced men who do this over the past couple of years. I had my first experience with a younger woman opposing counsel who acted this way this morning. I am not saying women should do everything with a smile or that we should be anything other than strong, confident, and concise (and I am certainly not one who has a warm/fuzzy vibe) but please, let’s not sink to the level of the unprofessional men who do this. They are their own downfall. The feeling I had when the older men did it was inspiring, as if to say your M.O. is on the way out (pronounced Canadian s’il vous plait). But this woman made me feel sick. If you want to make me feel bad, outsmart me. Don’t roll your eyes, interrupt me, and tell the judge you do not think I understand then turn and speak to me like a child. If you want to distract me, wear some terrible shoes or something (kidding!).

    • Woods-comma-Elle

      I hate this too (although I don’t go to court, but transactional lawyers are just as bad). I can always but hope that the third party involved can see through this and realise how unprofessional this person is being!

      • Jordan

        I agree. Here, that did not happen which is probably what made it so bad. The judge winked at me and said he is sure we can work it out. Almost like a cat fight was about to break out but he was alright with that.

    • Avodah

      @ Jordan- Have you read “Be Assertive- Not Aggressive”? I havent, but I have heard it is really good for helping women mangage those sorts of situations.

      I think you can get it used on Amazon.

      BTW- Not suggesting that *you* were being aggressive, just suggesting a book helping manage those types!

    • Elle

      So you hold women to a higher standard than you do men? Charming. I don’t know you but you seem pretty unlikeable.

      • LadyEnginerd

        I don’t think that’s called for. I certainly don’t find the OP unlikeable. Right or wrong, I do end up being more hurt when women are mean to me. I like to think that there a ‘sisterhood’ of women in male-dominated fields, and I’m always more hurt when faced with evidence to the contrary.

        • Anon

          I find this attitude so irritating. It’s not my job as a woman to be bubbly and peppy, and the fact that you also are a woman does not mean we are in a “sisterhood”. Like anyone, I have my own agenda and want to get it done without stepping on too many toes or overly inconveniencing myself. The women who take my feedback/demeanor/attitude more personally than they’d do if it were coming from a man are, without question, the most annoying aspect of my professional life. I also generally find them to be overly sensitive. Let’s have some equal standards, please.

          • LadyEnginerd

            Whoa! I don’t like it when anyone is mean, and the OP pretty much described someone being just plain rude. It’s not okay for anyone to roll eyes or interrupt, and in my work environment that nonsense is especially bad since I’m not a lawyer and argument/negotiation isn’t a large part of my job. I consider that behavior rude and disrespectful and I can’t imagine that anyone, male or female, should ever find it overly inconvenient to treat people with respect.

            At the same time, yes it hurts my feelings more when a woman does it because I am always looking for mentors and advice from someone who has been there and done that with sensitive, more lady-specific things like maternity leave or sexism. That’s why I read this site. Anyone who finds treating me with respect to be too inconvenient, or someone who thinks my toes aren’t important enough to avoid stepping on them gets promptly crossed off my mental list of people I can go to for candid advice. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with my feeling a little more sad when a woman is crossed off that list, given how ladies are in short supply over here in STEM fields.

      • Gooseberry

        Ouch. No. I don’t even know if I agree or disagree — I see Jordan’s point, but I also agree that maybe gender has nothing to do with it. I think reasonable people can take either side (or both sides, even). But, to meet her bad day with an insult is not only rude, but it’s against the spirit of what we all love about Corporette. Insulting the OP for venting about someone who was rude to her in court adds irony to your sarcastic use of the word “charming.” Let’s be gentle with each other, lord knows there are enough rude boyfriends, opposing counsel, court clerks, half-cube-sharers and everyone else in our lives!

      • Meg Murry

        No, she called the men who do this unprofessional too. I took it as saying usually the women she encounters are professional, her unprofessional experiences have been with men (usually older men, who may be treating her unprofessionally because she’s a woman, or just because they are jerks), and this is her first experience with a woman that behaved this way – and she was even more suprised that it was a young woman.

        She’s not holding woman to a higher standard than men – she’s expecting EVERYONE to be professional and treat each other with courtesy.

  19. purplepear12

    Hi Everyone,

    I’m looking to redo my bedroom. Can anyone recommend place to buy lower priced furniture? Something that’s an upgrade from my current Ikea set. I like PB in terms of style (Hudson set is my fav) and it’s sister stores but I don’t know if I can stomach the price tags at this point.

    While we’re at it, where can I find some awesome bedding?

    All help is appreciated!

    • ANP

      Do you have a World Market near you? I find them to be incredibly affordable and great quality (solid wood, good construction, etc.). I’d also try wayfair dot com.

      • MJ

        Agree–my friend’s wife is a furniture buyer for CostPlus, and she swears, straight up, that they source their furniture from the exact same factories as PB.

    • KC

      I’ve had luck with Overstock. The reviews are helpful for determining what’s actually a bargain vs. a low price for low quality. I haven’t ordered a full bedroom set, just some end tables and bedding, but I’ve been satisfied with those purchases.

    • emcsquared

      Not sure if this is just a regional thing, but Dania is a nice step between Ikea and some of the more expensive mass-market furniture places.

      And I don’t know your style, but inMod’s “design your own bedding” makes me WANT WANT WANT. I try to pick up high quality but heavily discounted sheets at Kohl’s; the after-Thanksgiving specials are also fantastic for bedding most years.

    • ADL

      I would suggest getting all wood furniture (not particle board). I purchased at a location outside of DC that bills itself as having “Pottery Barn-like” furniture. The brand name is Mobel – solid wood, made in Indiana.

    • ADL

      Oh, and as for bedding, I love the Company Store. Mainly for their down comforters, but their bedding sets are nice eye candy.

    • Blonde Lawyer

      Even though Linens and Things has closed most of its brick and mortar stores, they still have shopping available online. I have purchased some great bed and bath things from there.

    • purplepear12

      Thanks everyone. This is incredibly helpful. I’m going to shop away the rest of the week!

  20. TheoSTL

    Hi, everyone. I’ve been reading for a while, but this is my first time to post.
    I just bought a Tumi Q-tote from TJ Maxx that was a great price. The issue is that I’m now wondering if the color is right for me. I’m a PhD student, so I was looking for a nice tote that would last me a long time. My wardrobe is primarily based off of black and charcoal gray, and this Tumi bag is greige with light brown leather. Does that work? Are there professional colors that would go with my wardrobe besides black?

    • karenpadi

      The TUMI sounds like a good choice. As long as the greige works with charcoal/black, it will work. The light brown leather accents add some “pop”.

      Other colors: burgundy, purple, light gray (maybe your greige is like a light grey?), green, blue (not navy). I wouldn’t buy a black bag–too matchy-matchy with a blackish wardrobe.

  21. Expecting JD

    Help – I am trying to find maternity suit pants that don’t cling to my thighs. My normal suit pants don’t do that but for some reason every maternity suit I have tried clings to my thighs. If I size up, they are too baggy in the rear. Any suggestions? Thanks!

      • Expecting JD

        I haven’t tried Loft yet, but I just looked online and there’s a flare leg pant that might work (I just wish they weren’t $74). I’ll order it and see…keeping my fingers crossed!

  22. CKB

    I’m going to say this here because I can’t say it in real life, and I’ll have to draft an email that is much nicer when I get home tonight (as it pertains to a children’s church class/volunteer type situation).

    “Overract much? Seriously, your response to my email was all kinds of crazy. There was no sarcasm on my part. I have had emails I’ve sent and that were sent to me get lost in cyberspace before. If this was your first, count yourself lucky. Actually, considering your way over the top response to this, I’m thinking you really did send that email at the last minute, and it WASN’T lost in cyberspace. You are way, way too defensive to be innocent in this situation.

    I didn’t have any issues with you (I sure do now!), but it sounds like you have some pretty serious issues with me. I don’t want your job and I will not work with someone as cray-cray as you! I quit!”

    There, that feels better. Now hopefully I can put it out of my mind until I get home tonight and can draft a more diplomatic response that still gets my point across. That is, I’ll leave out the crazy references, but will still quit.

    Thanks for letting me get that out!

  23. Bar exam question

    Dear legal ladies,

    I live in DC but I’m taking the bar exam of another state. Is it worth it for me to spend the summer in the bar state to take live bar review classes, or can I take the online courses and stay in DC? My mother says that it’s very important to take live classes, but I think she secretly just wants me to come home for the summer.
    Thoughts? Thanks so much!

    • JK

      I took live classes and halfway through just started watching the lectures on my own (because I’m a morning person and wanted to start earlier than my 9 or 10 am class). In my opinion you can get everything out of the online version and don’t need to do a live version.

      UNLESS.

      You are someone who requires the discipline of an actual class. I suspect you’re probably not, since we are all mostly over-achieving type-Aers on here, but that’s the only case where I’d say a live class is necessary.

    • capnkate

      If you’re taking BarBri, as I did, I don’t think live classes matter much because you’re not allowed to ask questions during class. They tape the classes so that people who can’t attend class in person can watch the whole lecture, but that means they don’t allow students to “interrupt.” You can stay after class to ask a question of the lecturer, but I never found that helpful or necessary, and the lecturers are usually available by email if you need to ask a question. Most of the answers to any questions you might have are in your study materials.

      On the other hand, if going home will provide you with additional comfort and support, I’d go home. Preparing for the bar and dealing with the stress that comes with that is very taxing.

    • lucy stone

      Living with my parents during the bar exam was a great decision for me. They took care of me like I was a little kid again and my only job was studying for the bar, a PT job, and some household chores. So much easier than trying to be a fully functioning adult, but I am not type A at all and I needed the structure.

    • MacKaylaLane

      I stayed in my law school state for the bar since then I would have access to the law school and the library and generally the university town feel, and more importantly, commiserators in my friends and classmates who also stuck around.

      In my home state I would not have had those resources and would have to study in coffeeshops next to people enjoying their coffee with a novel… and the pull of the beach! or hiking! or anything BUT studying.

      I actually ended up studying in my apartment and watching a ton of TV so it might have worked out (and I could have saved some $ by not paying rent) and not having family distract me from my studying/relaxing.

      In short: do what you think you need; going to live classes (or even classrooms playing video) is not necessary.

    • laura holt

      I went to a few days of live classes and then switched to online. I found it easier and less distracting. The people in the classes were either a) very anxious about the bar and their stress was rubbing off on me or b) so overconfident (or pretending to be) that they were gossiping through the lectures and interfering with my ability to learn. I don’t think I’m especially great at staying on task on my own, but I did a pretty good job that summer. I managed to get in 7-8 hours of good studying every week day, less on weekends, and more once it got close to the bar, and still have lots of fun watching TV, hanging out with my husband (he was a student at the time so he was home a lot), baking and cooking, etc, all of which was really good for mental health and allowed me to be more focused when I did study. I would definitely study at home again if I had to do another bar.

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