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Updated: Oct 31, 2018 166 Comments · by

Wednesday’s TPS Report: Woven Fit and Flare Dress

The Personal Shopper (TPS) |

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Marc New York by Andrew Marc Woven Fit & Flare Dress | CorporetteOur daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. I'm more a fan of the classic sheath myself, but the popularity of the fit and flare dress is holding strong. This machine-washable one from Marc New York looks great — I like the seaming, the ladylike hemline (so many are minis!), and the work appropriate neckline. It's available in Aegean (pictured), black, and a “bright rose,” and is $138 at Nordstrom. Marc New York by Andrew Marc Woven Fit & Flare Dress Here is a lower-priced option (available up to size 16) and a plus-size alternative (which is also available in regular, petite, and petite plus). Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-4)

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Comments

  1. Sydney Bristow

    I have been having the worst luck with online shopping lately. Last week Nordstrom cancelled my entire order piece by piece until there was nothing left. Earlier this week I ordered Panera catering for my friend’s getting ready for the wedding breakfast and they called me to say “oops we can’t actually deliver that day.” Yesterday I tried to order wine for my wedding and there was a computer glitch so my order didn’t go through so I had to call to get it fixed. Now I’m trying to order something else from Nordstrom and got an error message saying that my order couldn’t be processed and suggesting I call customer service.

    Too much bad luck! I order online because I work in a room with 10 other people and it’s hard to find a quiet place to make a phone call. Plus I just hate talking on the phone.

    Ok rant over.

    • Wanderlust

      Sydney Bristow, sometimes I think we work at the same firm because from your posts, it sounds like we do similar work and I also sit in a room with 10+ other people.

      Too bad there’s not a corpor*tte secret hand gesture or something!

      But this also raises the question… if someone in your office was a routine poster on this board, would you WANT to know? Would you feel like you have a secret officefriend or would it make you censor your posts more?

      • Sydney Bristow

        Haha. I’m always a little worried because i share quite a bit of info about myself. But I think I’d like to know if someone figured out who I was!

        FWIW, I’m doing document review at a big firm in midtown east right now.

        I think the secret handshake involves 1 blue fingernail and a spare hairtie on the wrist. Sadly I have neither right now!

        • Wanderlust

          Ahh, I am in midtown west, so alas! There are only a few firms in NYC with official full time Staff Attorney armies, though, so hmmm.

          • Sydney Bristow

            Sadly I’m not actually a staff attorney. Still just a contract attorney.

      • a naan

        I’ll admit to having looked around the office carefully whenever people start “what i’m wearing” threads.
        If I found out I worked with another reader/commenter, my reaction would depend on whether they were more senior in the organization. I would be more apt to out myself (in person) if we were on the same level.

  2. Alice

    Looking for recipe recommendations, as I’m a little uninspired in planning the menu for my husband’s birthday next month. It will be just the two of us. I’m doing angel food cake with berries and cream for dessert, and I’m leaning toward maybe lamb for the main dish, with in season vegetables in some iteration.

    I don’t mind complicated or involved, but ideally I’d like something where I can prepare most components 1-2 hours early (perhaps cooked in the oven would be best). Ideas?

    • NavyLawyer

      Can he/does he eat fish? It can’t be cooked early, but it’s easy. Or crab or lobster-stuffed clam-shells (the huge kind) can be made ahead of time. Add plenty of sherry!

    • Rogue Banker

      As far as oven-based stuff, roasted potatoes with shallots is one of my favorite sides. As I remember the recipe, it’s basically – a dozen red taters cut to bite-size and three or four shallots sliced into quarters and broken up. Toss all of the bits in olive oil to lightly coat, add salt/pepper and spices to taste (I like to use some combo of thyme, rosemary and basil depending on what’s on the meat I’m putting it with) and put the whole thing in a non-stick pan. 45 mins at 350F, toss once or twice during the cooking to make sure everything gets done at the same time. You can also add other veggies in there too – I’ve used carrots and string beans most often, and chopped bacon does amazing things to the flavor. Easy, tasty, and customizable.

    • Fishie

      I did lamb for an anniversary, but rather than a whole dinner I did lamb chops as part of a variety of tapas. We had wine, cheese, and a bunch of little plates, ended with lamb, then dessert. You could do seasoned shrimp (5-6 minutes under the broiler); cheese, meats and dried fruit; a bruschetta, and lamb. I liked it because it dragged things out and we got to spend a few hours talking, eating, drinking, and just hanging out.

      I know I did them in the oven – probably just Googled an Alton Brown recipe. That man knows how to cook meat.

  3. Sagging

    Well, at my age (mid 50s), the girls are really sagging. Just like the commercial for soma undergarments (I think), there’s not alot on top. I’m naturally more abundant in the southern hemisphere for the gals anyway. Due to physcial and medical reasons, I can no longer wear underwires. Who knew that one little wire was so uplifting. It’s very hard to find lingerie without the wires, and most look horrid. 36 DD or F depending on fit. My rib cage is 31 inches though. At a size 8 in clothing, this is a big saggy deal now.

    What I’m asking the hive is: are there some sort of silicone cutlets that could go underneath the girls to help lift them?

    TIA for any and all ideas… I’ve got visions of the old National Geographic magazines when I look in my mirror.

    Word.

    • 2 Cents

      I have a great no-underwire bra I bought at the Jockey/Hanes outlet. I don’t remember the brand (sorry!) but it is the most comfortable bra I own, plus it keeps everything where it should be (and I’m a 42F).

    • Diana Barry

      Is your band size actually 36? If your rib cage at the highest point is 31, it sounds like you are more like a 32. Getting fitted at a Nordies or similar good store for fitting might help. I find that I look perkier (I have loss of volume on top) whenever I get re-fitted and am in the correct size.

      • Bra-stelatizing

        I agree on checking out lower band sizes, and suggest a 32 as a starting point. Royce specializes in high cup-size bras with no wires, Panache makes some non-wired bras (I own one in a 32j so it should exist in your size). There are also some nursing bra brands that do could work (hot milk is the one that comes to mind)

      • hoola hoopa

        Agree on all accounts. You sound like a 32H or so and need to get fitted. Getting the right size will substantially improve your perkiness. Barenecessities dot com has a few wire-free options in that size. Bravado nursing tanks stop at 32G, but they give a surprising amount of support/perk, are quite comfortable, and can be converted to non-nursing.

        • Anon

          Agree here–I was wearing 36DD for a long time until I tried on everything and realized I am realyl a 32H/34G. Much more supportive, so much happier. Try Asos or Figleaves for a much wider selection from the UK for small band/big cup girls like us. BareNecessities and Amazon are great, but I find that Panache and Freya just don’t have the quality materials that UK brands do in our sizes.

    • Zoe

      If your underbust (rib cage) measurement is 31 and you are wearing a 36 band, you may want to go down in the band and up in the cup because your bra is likely not providing enough support in the band and contributing to the “saggy” feeling. I don’t have any specific recommendations for a wire-less bra, but you may want to get advice on Reddit “abrathatfits”. If you post your five measurements and a wish-list others may have some good suggestions for you.

    • mascot

      If you need an online option, HerRoom has a Know Your Breast bra finder feature where you can insert measurements and shape to get recommendations.

      • Sagging

        Yes. It’s a wonderful thing!!!! Professional fitters have insisted that I not wear 32 or 34 bands … I have a very steep, tilted ribcage and they say it would be too tight … dunno. Thanks to all. Will check out Royce again; last time I looked they covered up too much of my decollatage and I felt like I was wearing armor. Worth another look though. Her Room is my go to site, also because you can see the item on a mannequin which helps more than just flat. I sag because of the volume of tissue, as they say at the doctors, after hormonal mismanagement and changes …

        • Bali?

          Bali Live it up is the only bra I found with support underneath- it is an underwire, but maybe they have a wire free version? I could not find others in dept stores with underneath support for sagging like the Bali. It has a support band just on the underside of the cup that works to push it all up. Good luck, I sympathize!

    • anon

      You may feel silly shopping there, but the American Eagle bralettes are amazing for the kind of bust you describe. Most are very supportive, and some even push-up (although I just wear the plain cotton ones).

    • Anon

      Check out Chantelle and maybe Natori wirefree bras. Try multiple band sizes, too.You can possibly go smaller in the band with a wire free bra.

  4. Opppp

    Have y’all watched The Jinx? It’s very good, but that’s not actually why I mention it. The DA from New York is wearing this awesome pink, sleeved dress in a lot of her interviews. Has anyone seen anything like that?

    • Ciao, pues

      I thought the same! She has great style. In her very first interview I actually said to my husband out loud: she is stunning.

    • Lobbyist

      I’m watching it now. On the third episode and loving it. And yes her clothes are great.

  5. anonymous

    What are you & SO’s favorite date night ideas that involve spending no to very little money?

    • Scout

      Hole in the wall improv shows, super cheap in my area and while the shows can be great or terrible it’s fun to laugh at either way.

    • AIMS

      Lots of museums have free nights once a week once a week. In NY, the Met always has suggested admission and is open late Friday/Sat nights & has a garden and bat on the roof. One of my favorite summer activities is to go look at some art, make our way to the roof and have a drink while looking at the tree tops of Central Park. The drinks are around $13 each but you can have a lovely night and two drinks plus admission can still be around $30.

      Agree with the free/low cost shows idea. If you make your plans last minute, there are lots of low cost options. And the summer tends to have lots and lots of free outdoor productions.

      We also like BYOB restaurants as bringing your own wine tends to really cut down on the bill. Same with just getting a bottle of wine and watching a movie at home.

      I love late night picnics. We tend to have ours on our balcony but if you have a backyard or roof deck, so much the better. Obviously, parks work too, just bring a nice blanket.

      Not sure if you want to say where you are, but someone might have place-specific recommendations for you.

    • Anon in NYC

      My husband and I like to cook and also have a lot of fun making new cocktails. We will occasionally look up a new food or cocktail recipe and spend the evening taste testing. Depending on what it is we’ll have to spend some money on ingredients, but it’s less than going out.

      • emeralds

        Same. Unless there’s something going on, Sunday is our night where we cook a nice dinner with nice drinks, light some candles, etc. It feels special but it’s a lot cheaper than a nice night out.

        I think you’ve gotten a lot of suggestions, but I’ll nth the recommendation for outdoors stuff since it’s getting into summer. I stalk community calendars for nights when local wineries or breweries have live music, or there are other free/cheap things happening outside.

    • ANP

      Bike date! We haven’t done this in ages but we used to ride our bikes (during the daytime) to a destination — pub or somewhere — for food or even just ice cream.

      • Pretty Primadonna

        Awww. My beau and I do this! We also enjoy free live music in the park, the local symphony, which has free (or very low-cost) performances, and free film showings.

    • Cb

      We have picnics in the park. You can bring food from home or do fancy specialty deli food (still cheaper than a restaurant).

    • KinCA

      Wine & Cheese Night at our house – we stop at a specialty grocer and pick up a bottle of wine, two or three different kinds of cheese, and some prosciutto and hang out on our couch or patio (this can usually be accomplished for $30-$40 or even less). No phones/TV allowed.

      Morning stroll – this isn’t necessarily an evening activity, but we’ve started replacing dinners out with morning walks to a nearby coffee shop or diner for breakfast. We normally extend our walk and check out a local park/scenic area before heading home.

    • Anon

      We have three small children, so the last time we were alone we had s*x and then went out for pho and it was amazing (both things actually, haha!) We also really like to go for walks together or go bowling. The little bit of competition from bowling is fun for us! And it is nice not to have to wrangle children while bowling.

  6. KP

    I love this (and really love the lower priced option) but I really need to try fit ‘n flare on. They’re either the most flattering things I wear or make my hips look enormous and I can’t figure out exactly where the line lies on the cut to know what will or won’t be good without putting the dress on. I could order it, but better for the wallet if I don’t. Ah well.

    • AIMS

      For me it’s about the flare not being too flouncy. I’ve found that basically a wide A line looks much better on me (and like an “fit & flare”) than anything actually described as “fit & flare,” which tends to look cartoonish and not at all flattering.

    • Sydney Bristow

      I haven’t found one that is flattering on me yet. Which is too bad because many of them look so cute and they are such a popular style that I have trouble finding other styles.

    • Mpls

      I think the waist seam has to hit at just the right spot, and the skirt has to have the right level of flare. And has to not drift into 50s housewife territory (very full skirt asking for crinolines)

      I think I’d prefer more options with princess seaming to bring in fullness on the bottom.

  7. Diana Barry

    Ladies – I am going to a wedding in early June and am wondering what you usually do to summer-up black dresses. This is the $$$ dress I bought last year and want to wear to everything possible so that I get my cost-per-wear down! :) I have a purple pashmina but feel like that is a bit too winter-y – yes or should I not worry about it? Any other ideas? Will be wearing silver shoes.

    • Anon in NYC

      Brighter jewelry, bright nail colors, or a lighter colored wrap. A deep purple might be too winter-y, but don’t overthink it!

    • lsw

      Could you layer a lace bolero – something short sleeved? Perhaps use a silver skinny belt around the waist? Use a brightly colored handbag/clutch? (I’m thinking magenta or something.)

    • Anonymous

      If you’re flexible on the shoes, I would consider something brighter. Silver shoes to me say “winter.” Coral or yellow would be really pretty! Or maybe gold shoes with a coral/yellow/cobalt chunky necklace.

    • ss

      I like stacked gold jewelry and strappy flat sandals with an unfussy black dress for warm weather. Would work better for a garden/ beach wedding than one involving a formal place of worship though.

    • AIMS

      Do a bright pink wrap instead of purple. It’ll be summary and pink looks great with silver.

    • anon a mouse

      Silver goes great with turquoise or coral with the black – a good way to “summer” it up. Also consider doing something breezy with your hair – like a nice barrette, or a flower comb, or something, that will help set the tone as less formal.

      • mintberrycrunch

        +1 to turquoise jewelry. Looks amazing with black and also always reads summer to me.

    • Idea

      Silk scarf instead of Pashmina, for sure. I mean, maybe a light wrap if you need one, but a pashmina is likely too heavy.

    • OttLobbyist

      Doing the same for an event I have at the end of may – going with coral t-strap open toe shoes, a chunky necklace with the coral, and cream clutch, and a cream, black, coral printed wrap. It’s a bit matchy-matchy, but works with the retro styling of the black dress. I may add mint green in there somewhere. I think the purple will be too wintery.

  8. Vancouver Stuff To Do

    Hello! I’m in Vancouver for 3 days / 3 nights with my husband and parents (mid-60s) – Friday evening to Monday noon in late May. Trying to think of things to do that are fun, touristy, and a bit quirky. Any suggestions would be helpful!

    Also, are Ubers prevalent in Vancouver? I’m debating not renting a car at all and just using Ubers when we can’t / don’t want to take public transportation.

    Here’s what I have so far:
    Stanley Park / walk on Seawall
    TeaHouse brunch in Stanley Park
    Museum of Anthropology at UBC
    Vancouver Lookout
    Ferry ride
    Granville Island / Market
    North Vancouver Night Market
    a Guu Japanese Izakaya

    • ex-Vancouverite

      It’s been awhile since I lived there but a) I’d say that is already a fairly big list for 3 days, b) not sure if this is what you mean by “Vancouver Lookout”, but going up Grouse Mountain on the gondola, the Capilano Suspension Bridge (also in North Van/Grouse Mountain), c)Deep Cove inlet/Cates Park area in North Van is beautiful, d) a drive up the coast (stunning!) to Lion’s Bay etc.

    • Kc

      Granville island/market!! And the sea wall walk. Granville Island can be done in the morning, get lunch there, and then you can hang out on the beach/grassy area where the ferry drops you off. I was there last June and I stayed downtown and did not have a car. Downtown Vancouver is not overly large, but it may be a bit much for your parents if you walk as much as I did. The advantage of a car is that you can do things away from downtown. I took the public transportation train from the airport to downtown and it wasn’t hard to figure out. I think you hit everything I would recommend. I had a wonderful time in Vancouver and can’t recommend it enough.

      • Asideralis

        I second the Granville island/market suggestion. If you can make it out to Stanley park, that’s a beautiful way to see the ocean, too!

      • LilyS

        Cosigning that the public transport from airport to city is great. Not difficult to figure out at all.

        North Vancouver Market is great.

        We really enjoyed the Museum of Vancouver and the Space Center, which are in the same building (and you can buy a ticket including both I think).

      • Anonymous

        I’ll second this. It’s amazing to be that close to city, water, and ski mountains. It was like nowhere else I’ve been. If you’re interested in gardens, you might add Victoria Island and Butchart Gardens to your list.

  9. Morgan

    I bought this dress on Saturday. The fit is amazing. It’s so flattering and comfortable. I love the color, too.

    However, I bought it at Marshall’s and paid either $39.99 or $49.99 for it. I guess I lucked out, but this recently happened to my Mom too (found a Vince Camuto blouse at Marhsall’s for about $19.99 that a friend purchased at Nordstrom’s for $80.00 around the same time).

    Marshalls and TJ Maxx, for the win.

    • Rogue Banker

      Me and my favorite $29.99 Anne Klein dress say HELL YEAH TJ MAXX. Takes some looking sometimes, but you can find seriously amazing deals.

    • la vie en bleu

      nice find! you’re reminding me I haven’t been to Marshalls in a while ;-)

    • Bethany

      Careful- I got a Calvin Klein dress at TJ Maxx and the seams were awful, kept unraveling on me, and it just wasn’t as nice as other CK dresses I have owned. I did some research, and it turns out the TJ Maxx stuff at CK is basically licensed reproductions made by a different company- cheaper fabrics, less likely to be lined, the fits aren’t as good, and other issues. Very frustrating.

    • Pretty Primadonna

      Almost all of the Calvin Klein sheath dresses I own (about ten) came from Marshall’s. I purchase them for fantastic prices, even the on-season, currently-in-department-store ones. Unlike Bethany, I haven’t had an issue with the quality of these frocks. It seems to match that of the CK dresses I got from Dillard’s, etc.

      The last time I went, I saw the same light pink peplum Tahari suit I had just purchased from Macy’s on discount for 149. I think it was 69.99 in Marshall’s. -_-

  10. Wedges

    Hi all, I’m going to an evening cocktail reception in late May in New England that will be (1) outdoors and (2) on grass. The attire for men is a jacket and tie (suit not required, although I’m guessing many men will wear a suit). Attire for women is not specified. If it were the middle of summer, I would wear a fun/summery dress and wedges. But May can be chilly at night, so I’m concerned that might not be warm enough. Thoughts? I guess I could bring a sweater/wrap, but what if it’s too cold for bare legs? Also, I have several cocktail dress options (one green, one red, one black, one multi-colored), but I need some help with shoes. Because of the grass, I can’t wear regular heels, and my only wedges are cork wedges that I think may look too out of place with a cocktail dress. Help? Budget for shoes is under $100, ideally less. TIA.

  11. Anonymous

    As a single gal, I’m feeling depressed about all the summer weddings and summer babies. I know that I’m going to spend so much time getting the “you’ll be next!” or the “I wish was single still!”, when it’s not at all what I want to hear.

    I love summer, but not as much when ever other weekend is eaten up by weddings, engagement parties, bachelorette parties and baby showers.

    • Batgirl

      It can be rough. Try to balance it out with lots of fun summer activities with single friends!

    • Idea

      Go on a solo vacation to someplace cool – either temperature-wise (mountains?) or someplace that you like/love and you don’t have to worry about anyone else!

      Also, we talk a lot about what’s good/not good to say to someone who’s infertile, or whatever, but if you want to help me out with what to say to someone in your position, that’d be great!

      • Anonymous

        I love the idea of a solo vacation! I might implement that!

        For what do say, I just don’t want to have the pity/sympathy for my lack of babies/husband, as if it’s a personal failing.

        All you have to do is show some interest in my life that isn’t related to men or babies- like work, or my hobbies, or travel, etc, and also show that you are more than your fiancé and babies, and how you have your own hobbies/interests (i.e. do not spend 2 hours talking about your engagement photo session or how little Jimmy just won’t eat anything green).

        • Anon

          This. A million times this. Ask me what’s going on, and talk to me about that. If I’m seeing somebody and I want to talk about it, I’ll tell you. If I don’t bring up my love life, leave it alone. The only reason I can think of why you (another guest at an event like this- not a close friend) should ask me specifically about whether I’m seeing anyone right now is because you have someone awesome you’d like me to meet. I’m happy to listen to you talk about what’s going on in your life – wedding plans, babies, whatever (except potty training. I’m never going to want to hear about your baby’s bathroom habits), for a while, but we are unlikely to bond over that discussion, if it is only about your wedding/baby.

        • Emily

          Haha, I haven’t met any newly married new mom that is able to do this, so my decision is to just avoid them.

        • Anon

          Amen to anon at 12:31.

          The pitying looks and inability to discuss anything other than wedding planning and babies is challenging, even with the knowledge that both can be all-consuming.

        • Brit

          Totally second the solo vacation. I took a trip to Colonial Williamsburg after my classes were finished in December for a weekend and it was a blast. I could stop when I wanted to, I could eat where I wanted to, see what I wanted to, and when I decided to delay my trip home the last day to detour to Jamestown, no one argued with me :-) The perfect weekend getaway!

      • la vie en bleu

        yeah can we just not talk about my love life? Please?
        Let’s chat about work, or TV shows, or hobbies, or childhood memories, or whatever, but any kind of comment about my single-ness is just going to s*ck no matter what it is.

        Altho, I’m also underemployed right now, so that makes me feel like I literally have nothing I want to talk about, but that’s a whole other thing.

    • Anonna

      When I would complain about going to weddings solo, my friend would always remind me, “you don’t bring a sandwich to a picnic.” Weddings and bachelorette parties are great places to meet hot new friends to make out with. And tell anyone who says, “don’t worry, you’ll be next!,” “gee, I hope not! I’m having way too much fun to settle down.” Blah on them.

      As for the baby showers, send a gift and your regrets or look at it as fun “girls only” time to clear your head after all the schmecking you’ve been doing at the weddings and hen parties.

      Ladies, life is too short to be sad about being single, dateless, or other people’s issues with your singlehood.

      • anonymous

        “Ladies, life is too short to be sad about being single, dateless, or other people’s issues with your singlehood.”

        Ah, yes, I really enjoy when people attempt to invalidate my feelings about being single. In fact, I think that’s the thing I hate the most about dealing with smug coupled people remarks/ attending other people’s life events — being told that I can’t feel bad about not having that source of joy in my life.

        “gee, I hope not! I’m having way too much fun to settle down.”

        No.

        • Anon

          I am SO with you. I hate this attitude from people. You hit the nail on the head–I, too, am sad about not having that source of joy in my life. I have lots of other sources of joy, but yoga, meditation, travel, work, hobbies, and great friends cannot stop me from being sad about not having found my partner. And it’s not fair for people who have done so to tell us we shouldn’t be sad about this.

          • Anonna

            Yikes! I was not trying to invalidate, only to look at the bright side. I’ve been there. It gets better. That’s it.

          • Anonna

            Yikes! I was not trying to invalidate, only to look at the bright side. I’ve been there. I heard, “don’t worry, it will be your turn soon” at least a bazillion times. It gets better. Especially when you realize the people saying that are the jerks, not you. And I take great pleasure in providing retorts to such comments that demonstrate that I do not hold their same values on the importance of hurrying up to get married, hence “I am having too much fun.”

    • bridget

      If anyone tells you that they still wish they were single, ask them to repeat that in front of their spouse.

      To be serious, only go to the events that you can handle emotionally. Don’t be afraid to leave a bit early. If someone starts on “You’ll be next!!11!”, the best response is a quiet and very firm, “Enough.”

  12. Suburban

    Bright lipstick- if that’s your thing. I’m wearing all black with pink lips today and feel awesome!

    • Rogue Banker

      Neutral outfit + bright makeup is one of my favorites. I’m in black and camel today, with glorious orange eyeshadow. Lovin’ it. :)

  13. C

    I have an interview next week and I need advice.
    Question 1: interview is Morning after I return from vacation. Do I call in to work Thursday morning saying I won’t be in til noon or do I tell them now that plans have changed and I’ll be in later?
    Question 2: what’s a good response for why I want to switch jobs? Same industry much narrower role further commute. Potential for more money but not guaranteed. Real reason I want to leave is my bosses are lunatics

    • Anon for this

      I would tell your work now plans have changed. Lying stresses me out (even if it’s for a legitimate and good reason) so I wouldn’t want to deal with it the morning of an interview. I switched jobs for similar reasons. I would focus on the narrower part and just say that it’s an area you enjoy and you would like to be able to dedicate more of you focus on that role.

    • bridget

      “Narrower role”: “I would really enjoy diving deep into this subject and becoming a specialist in it, rather than feeling as if it my attentions are divided up amongst different tasks.”

      “Bosses are lunatics”: I dunno, say something about wanting a collegial working environment? Extra points if it’s been noted as good employer with happy, productive, satisfied employees. Put a positive spin on it by complimenting the new place (and leave unsaid the implication that the current job is crazy).

  14. ALN

    Shopping help please. I’m graduating from law school in a month and my parents want to buy me a briefcase. I already have a Coach (factory) black saffiano leather tote bag that I consider a unicorn: full zip top, rather than the kind that comes undone and you have to connect, long enough straps to wear on my shoulder, and a removable crossbody strap. It’s not giant; it will just barely fit my 13 inch laptop, or it will fit a binder and some papers. So my question is what should I ask for? A bigger, nicer version of what I already have? If so, I think I’m looking at the Tumi Nina Commuter Brief, but would appreciate other suggestions. Or should I ask for something completely different that I can alternate with my current bag? I kind of like the idea of a true briefcase like the Coach Bleecker Slim Briefcase, but I worry that it’s a little masculine. Help me?

    • So I

      Do you know what you’ll be doing after graduation? I’ll say that as a 4th year associate who has worked in both litigation and transactional and gone to trial, I have never needed a true briefcase (but I ask because it’s probably different for someone working in smaller shops or a DA-type role where there aren’t paralegals and tech support in trial with you to bring in the document boxes every day). I would have appreciated the versatility of a tote bag like you describe with your Coach one, so my vote would probably be a bigger, nicer version, or something completely out of the briefcase/bag category (cleaning service for those first few months, flower auto-delivery to brighten up your home during bar prep, slow cooker for making large-batch meals for leftovers–basically, things that will make your soon-to-be busy working life easier and/or cheerier).

      • ALN

        I’ll be doing something in the realm of criminal law, which is why I like the idea of having a bigger bag for trials. Although your suggestion of a cleaning service is awfully tempting, lol.

    • Anonymity

      I’d go more tote-like, less briefcase-y. And for something you can alternate with your current bag.

    • Blonde Lawyer

      I have a Brahmin weekender that I use as a trial bag. I can fit multiple redwells for depositions or hearings. It is not an every day bag but perfect for when I need to lug a whole bunch of work crap.

  15. BigLaw first year

    I’m looking for some advice. First-year biglaw associate and I already want to quit. I’m anxious and stressed all the time, and have had a few panic attacks. I hate the unpredictability. I hate sitting around not doing much in the morning/early afternoon, then getting slammed with stuff that is due by next morning. I knew all of this coming in, but I didn’t realize how bad it would be to actually live through it. I need more consistency and predictability for my mental health. I have started looking for another job with more predictable hours, but so far have had no real luck. My instinct is just to quit, but I know that probably isn’t the smartest move. Anyone here leave biglaw (or other similar job) before a year (with or without a job in hand)? Any advice for sticking it out? Thank you.

    • Anon

      Mine wasn’t true big law (it was the largest law firm in my state, though) and I was there for just over a year. I spent that down time applying for jobs (I focused on jobs that were not attorney jobs – so JD preferred or legal-related, because I was a little jaded with being an attorney at that point). I ventured off the job sites and identified companies I would want to work for and searched their websites (this is how I found my current job which I LOVE). You would be surprised how many large corporations don’t post (or only post some) jobs on employment sites. Initially I did all my job searching at home or on my cell phone, but once I hit the point where I just wanted to quit, I started job searching at work (I figured I didn’t have much to lose), and luckily it wasn’t an issue. I also set goals to apply for X number of jobs every day. Using the downtime to apply for jobs and applying for a certain number each day made me feel like I was making progress toward my goal of leaving.

    • ace

      It gets SO MUCH BETTER about 12-18 mos. in, once you start knowing what you’re doing and have some experience to build on. You’ll also start being better able to predict workflow and feel more in control of your schedule (though never fully in control while at a firm… and maybe as a lawyer, period).

      Don’t jump ship to another law firm — you’re likely to have the same issues and you’ll restart your learning curve. One of my summer classmates left our first firm within her first year, to go to a company because of the pace of the work she was doing at our firm. I think leaving now without a job in hand is a really bad idea. If you know that BigLaw is not for you (and frankly I don’t think you can know that for sure until you’ve put 18-24 months in so you can get over the learning curve I mentioned before), leaving to go to a non-firm job (government, company, nonprofit) is not a terrible idea, but probably forecloses you from going back to a BigLaw firm (and potentially any firm).

      Good luck. I know it really s u c k s now — as do the other associates you work with. Try to find a more senior associate to talk with and confirm it’s not just you, it’s the job (which I can almost guarantee).

      • roses

        +1. I am busier than I was as a first year, but it is way more predictable now (I’m a third year and things started to get better about 18 months in). When you start working on cases with the same partners you become more in tune to what work is coming in and will likely be staffed on longer-term projects. It’s not unusual for me to work till 9/10 now but I’d take that and knowing that my Sunday will be free over having no work during the week and then working all weekend.

      • Emily

        It’s because you’re a first year. It does get better as you learn to manage things, get more autonomy, etc.

        Also, if it’s your first job ever, working at any job is an adjustment. You’re almost in May now, so if you have to be in your seat at 930, then do that, then hit the gym or do something fun while you wait for the evening. If you don’t have to be in your seat at 930, do whatever you need to first, then go in to get the afternoon crush.

    • Ellen

      Yay! I love this sheathe dress, Kat, and this color. It is sooooo nice, and I hope that it will fit me well. Great Pick Kat!

      I am sorry not to have posted much in the last few day’s. My Grandma Trudy has had digestive issues, so we all had to go out to her place on Long Island. FOOEY! But she is feeleing much better now that we gave her a large bottel KADOTA FIGS that mom remembered she liked. This is good advise for the HIVE. KADOTA FIGS taste good, and they work when you are all backed up and need to let loose like she did. FOOEY!

      As for the OP, do NOT fret to much about being a first year associate. We were all there and we got over it, just like first year of law school. What you have to remember is that most partner’s are ego manac’s and they will try to bully you if they can. Mom say’s it is b/c most have very small winkie’s and have lived their whole live’s being insiginificant and haveing their girlfreind’s and wives wondering what was goeing on down there. So when they get to work, they want to assert whatever masculeainity they can by bulleying you and other female’s–partially to offset the reality that their winkies’ do NOT get the job done at home. You have to say to yourself that their behaviour is due to this, then gritt it out. If you MUST look for an easier job, you should look to get a job in State Government or in some Federal Agencies, b/c there you can look out the window all day and yell thing’s out your window, and not one care’s to much.

      The other alternative you have is to become a law school professor. But since you are ONLEY a 1st year associate, you will need to get another 2 year’s of experence, or else you can go back to law school (UGH), and get an LLM degree. The onley downside here is that you will have to put up with law profesor’s OOOOGLEING you and grabbing at your tuchus. Once you become a law school professor, you know your hours, and the worst thing that can happen is that you will have law student’s ooogleing you, but they are harmless. FOOEY!

      But do NOT quit until you have a plan of action. You will succeed if you just perservere–we all did here at the HIVE! YAY!!!

      I hope the rest of the hive have their own idea’s! DOUBEL YAY!!!!

    • Hollis

      I left Biglaw and then went back. My in-house gig had great hours, great work-life balance, but I was overhead and a reorg left me unemployed and depressed. My gig at a mid-law firm had better hours, but the work wasn’t as interesting to me and they didn’t have a good path for promotion. I’m back at Biglaw and will be here for the rest of my career, in part because IT GETS BETTER. You will get more automony and a little more control over your hours as you become more senior. That’s not just Biglaw, that’s everywhere. Everyone has to pay their dues. Talk to a first year investment banker, management consultant, medical resident, etc.

      As you ride out the early years (and I know what that’s all about), can you use your downtime to meet people for lunch, workout, etc. for your mental health? Can you get in the mode of seeing that the money helps you (fill in the blank – pay off your loans, support your family, afford your own place)? Have you figured out what you like in your work (practice area or industry or whatever)? If you haven’t, maybe that’s what you can do when you’re “not doing much in the morning/early afternoon.” I don’t get the sense that you actually like doing the work, and if you don’t, then maybe you can change practice areas and see if you enjoy another one better?

    • CountC

      I know exactly how you feel. I used to have to shut my door to cry my way through panic attacks at least once a week (sometimes more). I managed to stick it out for two years and didn’t leave until I had another job lined up. My coping strategies were alcohol (lots), Xanax and Ambien, stress eating, and therapy. Not exactly the healthiest thing in the world nor the most helpful. I’m sorry. :(

      As someone who has quit a job and moved without another job lined up, I would not recommend doing it especially if you haven’t been at your current firm for at least a year. It worked out for me, but I had a good financial cushion and I was moving to an area where I had previously lived and had LOTS of connections. I know you are not moving, just giving you my situation.

    • DC Biglaw

      I completely understand that you are miserable, but DO NOT just quit. Do bad work, take days off, but do anything but just quit.

      When did you start exactly? Have you had a job before (one that lasted at least a year)? If you haven’t had a long-term job before the first 6 months to a year a really, really hard no matter where you work.

      In terms of what you can do in the short-term to make life more manageable — what practice area are you in? Could you try a different practice area? Ask around inside the firm to see what might be less crisis driven at your firm (often this is a function of the personalities of the partners).

      Do you work with the same people over and over? If so, go talk to them. You have to approach partners a little more cautiously than other associates, but be honest and tell them that you are finding it hard to manage all the short deadlines. Ask if there is anything you can do to get the work coming to you sooner or earlier in the day. It might be as simple as checking in with them around 10am every day to see what might need to be done. What it sounds like is happening is that they aren’t getting to the work until late in the day and that’s why you aren’t getting it. If they remember they can just send you stuff, they will. Its somewhat unusual for clients to repeatedly ask in the late afternoon for something the next day. It does happen, but typically not all the time. If you are on a few big matters, go to the mid-level associates and ask them for help on how to manage it all.

      The firm did not hire you to cause you to quit because you are miserable. Work flow is manageable. You will probably never be 100% happy but you should definitely be able to get to the point where you are not miserable and want to quit on the spot.

      • Anonymous

        This. At most BigLaw firms, it’s pretty hard to get fired, and usually takes a solid year or two of terrible hours and/or terrible reviews (usually both). If it’s overwhelming, start cutting back, reducing your workload and time in the office, etc. The odds you’ll get fired within a year are small and you’ll have that extra time to save money and job hunt. Also, talk to people and let them know you’re unhappy! Partners and associates you work for and like, people you connected with as a summer, career development professionals that work with associates. Any of those people might be able to help. It might not be the best thing for your long term career prospects, but I don’t think that’s your biggest concern at this point, and it could certainly make the next couple of years much more bearable.
        Also, if you’re really not getting any work until mid-afternoon, can you go in later? At many offices, including mine, it’s the norm for associates to come in around 10 am or later. And if the people you’re working with rise even later (e.g., because you’re in NY and they’re in CA), there’s no reason you can’t push it even later than that. Use the mornings to sleep, do something fun, or job hunt. Check email regularly and go into the office some mornings to check in, but I don’t think you have to be sitting in the office 5 days a week, wasting time.

    • Anon for this because offering in person advice

      Goodness I hope you aren’t my first year. I’ve been really worried about her for similar reasons. If you are her, please come talk to me. If you are who I think you might be, come down to the last female office right of your office, and talk about, like, the pictures of my dogs or something. And if it is not me, then just pretend you’re talking about pictures of someone’s dogs?? Haha.
      Anyway, in case you aren’t who I think you are, and as advice I would give the person I’m concerned about… Well… Biglaw isn’t for everyone. Never has been and never will be. But, there is a learning curve, both in terms of substance but also process. I question whether you are who I think you are because the process my team has been subject to over the past few months has been horrendous and is hurting all of our morale. Sometimes a different group might help (if what you are doing isn’t exactly what you want anyway). Otherwise, try to find a mentor to help you navigate the waters. I never had a good mentor but I try really hard to be one. Once you get more used to what you are doing and how to handle deadlines, etc., it gets better. Best advice – reach out for help. You shouldn’t be this stressed, it should be someone else’s (a mid level perhaps?) problem. If you are considering quitting, definitely don’t quit until you have something else lined up. You can probably get away with a lot while still in Biglaw before you get fired, so if you are really considering quitting, just take some time for yourself (which will also be a flag to partners/seniors to check in with you and see if they can help you do your job better). What I mean by that is, get good night’s sleeps, don’t be as responsive as I’m sure you currently are, and push back on deadlines (“No, I can’t get that to you by tomorrow. Maybe the end of the week but I can’t guarantee that either”). Use as much leeway as you can get before someone talks to you – because if you were going to quit, what difference does that make anyway? And try to get back on top and feeling good. Ultimately figure out if it is the work, the politics/expectations of biglaw/something else, etc., and act once you’re sure. I hope that makes sense. Good luck.

      • nutella

        this is very sweet of you to care about your associates.

        if you are concerned, why not invite her to get coffee with you and ask how she’s holding up because you know the transition can be tough. it can be difficult for new employees in any profession and definitely in law to speak up when they are overwhelmed or know who to talk to about it.

    • BigLaw first year

      Thank you all for your comments/advice. To the Anon above, definitely not your first year, but also comforting to hear that I’m not the only one struggling.

      This isn’t my first job. I had worked for a couple of years before law school (and always had a job since I was 15), so I’m used to the normal work politics. I don’t think I’ll actually quit without a back-up, but I guess it’s nice to know that I can. I’m trying to not care as much (which is really unnatural for me) and hoping I can ride it out while I’m looking for another job. I will have a chance to switch practice groups in a few months, so I hope that will help. I’m not sure if I don’t like the group I’m in now because of the work related anxiety or if it’s because I really don’t like the subject matter (probably a combination of both). Sometimes it’s just helpful to vent to people who have been there and know that it will be okay.

      • Emily

        Also, I’ve found that whenever I was in over my head or something was really hard, or unreasonable, it turned out to truly be all of the above and actually the failure of leadership to identify and address the issues properly before flinging it to the first year/junior, which as the first year/junior, you don’t realize until AFTER.

        e.g. Figuring out on Friday at 630PM that I, as the first year less than a month into the job, was to prepare all trial exhibits for a federal trial for Monday at 9AM, having been brought into the case on a “limited task” on Monday, the task having nothing to do with exhibits; oh, and the counsel on the case didn’t finalize the exhibit list until Saturday evening.

  16. Hollis

    I know we’ve covered this territory before, but I still don’t have my plans so I’d like to ask this group for suggestions: I need to provide food for a group of 20 people (adults and kids) on a weeknight. 1 person does not eat beef or pork, 1 person is a vegetarian (philosophical objection), and the rest of us can eat everything. Trick is that food needs to be ready at 6:30, but I’m not usually home until maybe 5:30 or 6 after work, so if it requires prep work, I need to do it the night before. I was thinking something with a slow cooker recipe, or some kind of pasta bake, but am open to other ideas. Please help!

    • Anon

      Pasta and sauce with meatballs (set some sauce without meatballs aside for non-meat eaters), bread, and a salad. The sauce, meatballs, and salad can all be made ahead of time, so really the only thing you will have to do is cook the pasta and heat up the sauce and meatballs. The one downside is that it’s messy, but it is easy and fast and pretty much everyone (kids included) like it.

      • Hollis

        Sounds promising. Do you mean frozen meatballs or handmade? If handmade, do I bake them or boil them? Thanks.

        • anonyc

          My kids are, ahem, addicted to the Shady Farms fully cooked turkey meatballs. I just dump them in pasta sauce and heat. I like making my own but the cost-time analysis = premade. Also have had luck with Trader Joe’s fully cooked meatballs.

      • Wanderlust

        Adding on to that idea, it could be fun if you did a “meatball bar,” and had three different types: some kind of beef/pork/lamb meatball, a turkey meatball, and a vegetarian meatball, with options for a salad, polenta, and pasta. Let people assemble their own plates so they can cater to their own needs and habits.

      • Emily

        Along that line, taco bar with slow cooker meat option that you just heat up when you get home, and a grilled veggie or black bean option.

        • Anonna

          +1. Roasted veggies with chili/taco seasoning in the over for 45 minues, + crock pot with chicken or beef.

    • anonyc

      For that many people on a weeknight with such a short turn-around time, I’d probably order out for dinner (pizza, pasta bakes, sub sandwiches, Indian, etc.–something where there can be meat and non-meat options), and maybe make my own side(s) (salads, easy veggies) and desserts the day before. Seems like too much stress and especially if you’re providing a decent amount of meat, not that much less expensive to cook.

      If you’re committed to making something, maybe two lasagnas, one meat and one veggie? Alt: two big trays of baked zitis, with meatballs on the side. You can cook them the day before and then throw them in the oven to warm when you get home, add salad, and done. When on the annual family vacation each summer, my night of dinner responsibility always ends up with lasagna because it’s hard to feed that many folks.

      • Hollis

        Great advice. Any tips on making lasagna without the stress and mess? Whenever I make even a simple spinach one, it turns my kitchen into a total disaster area, with bowls of ricotta, large strips of noodles sticking together (or burning my fingers when I rush it and try to boil and assemble right away). And some of the top noodles get over-baked and turn hard and crunchy.

        • ace

          No cook noodles. Embrace the mess and just clean it up the night before, and then pop those lasagna pans in when you get home.

        • tesyaa

          No-boil noodles, or use regular noodles and don’t boil them. Assemble lasagna as usual but pour 1 cup of water around sides before baking (cover tightly so the noodles soften).

        • NOLA

          I do a more traditional Italian lasagna with bechamel and parmesan (no ricotta or mozzarella). It’s so much easier! And I use fresh lasagna sheets rather than dry pasta. You can make ahead and bake it when you get home. FWIW, I started with Fabio Viviani’s recipe. When I made it for Christmas, I made one lasagna with sausage in the sauce and another with roasted eggplant in the sauce. Both were big hits. I can’t find one link to Fabio’s recipe because he lists the bechamel recipe separately but just Google it.

          • Anon in NYC

            This sounds so good! My biggest complaint about lasagna is how much ricotta is involved, so I’m definitely going to give this a try.

          • NOLA

            It changed my life lasagna-wise. I just never liked all of the ricotta or the pounds of mozzarella it took. The thing is, this is absolutely delicious and not as heavy. I froze some after Christmas and my SO took a piece out of the freezer one day and said it was the best lasagna he’d ever had.

        • anonyc

          I also swear by n0-cook lasagna noodles. I buy pre-shredded moz, jarred sauce–point is to reduce prep time. My favorite veggie base is to use frozen spinach (microwave to defrost and squeeze out as much excess water as possible). If I’m feeling super fancy I might saute some zucchini/yellow squash and throw that in, too. Could also do sauted mushrooms, kale, etc. Then I layer:

          enough tomato sauce to cover the bottom +
          the following sequence twice–
          layer of noodles +
          ricotta (mix a big tub of ricotta with 2 eggs) +
          spinach (or whatever veggies you’re into) +
          mozzarella cheese
          And try to finish on top with a layer of noodles, sauce, and a little grated parm.

          If I’m making a meat version I usually just saute ground turkey until cooked all the way through and use that in place of the spinach. or with the spinach. Then bake at 350 for 35-45 minutes. Mangia!

        • Meg Murry

          Stouffer’s lasagna – you can get big pans of it from GFS, Costco or the like. One with meat, one vegetable. Even the meat eaters in my life love Stouffer’s veggie lasagna. Alternately, one medium meat lasagna, one small veggie lasagna and one medium pan of Stouffer’s mac & cheese will satisfy all the adults and kids, provided they all eat cheese.

    • anon

      I go with something you can make the night before and reheat like a chili or other kind of soup.

    • hoola hoopa

      Taco meat in the slow cooker, corn & bean salad, lime/cilantro/cabbage slaw, and tortillas. Day before, make the corn/bean salad and prep the slaw (keeping dressing separate). I’d also make the taco meat the day before and just reheat, but you can have it running that day while you’re at work. Day of, come home and toss slaw, warm tortillas and meat, take corn/bean salad out of fridge, and you’re good to go!

      Do chicken taco meat if you want to include the non-beef/pork person, or do your favorite beef or pork and assume they’ll have the vegetarian option.

      I really like this recipe for a quinoa, corn, and bean salad: http://www.sheknows.com/food-and-recipes/articles/1002593/quinoa-black-bean-and-corn-salad-recipe – except with entire bell pepper, juice and zest of one lime instead of vinegar, and 1 tsp of ground cumin. I often have it as a main dish, and it’s even better the next day.

      • NOLA

        Yeah, I’ve also done make your own burritos with tortillas, lettuce, tomato, beans, brown rice, guacamole, sour cream, then either grilled shrimp or chicken. That way, people can eat whatever they choose.

    • la vie en bleu

      I would just make something with chicken or turkey so that all the meat eaters can eat it, and something vegetarian. Don’t give yourself 3 things to make for no reason.

      And honestly, I think you could totally order or buy premade, I hear good things about the Costco lasagnas, and just throw them in the oven. Don’t stress yourself out trying to make food for everyone! You are hosting, you are already doing enough. Make it easy for yourself and enjoy the company.

    • Scarlett

      I go to dry bar – there’s one on Fillmore St and one downtown. The Fillmore location is cuter. It’s a basic/chain blowout but great for what it is.

  18. Anon

    I’m so frustrated with my husband at the moment! He often does this thing where he’s clearly unhappy about something, but instead of saying anything, he just withdraws. I ask him a question and get a flat response. I ask him what’s wrong and he just doesn’t answer. (I mean sometimes he literally just sits there and looks at the TV or his phone.) So I have to ask again. I wind up asking questions I hate, like “are you mad? Are you mad at me? Or are you mad at something else?” He says that this happens when it’s something else that’s really bothering him and he realizes intellectually that it’s not me, but because he’s already feeling on edge, something I’m doing bothers him. Or because something bothers him about what I’m doing, but he doesn’t think it’s worth bringing up. Then he gets annoyed that I’m asking all these questions. I know I should just let it go and not keep digging. But sometimes it’s something that could be changed or addressed. Like right now I just asked him if we could get a babysitter tomorrow evening so I can go to a work event. He said yes, but the tone sounded like he wanted to say no. If he didn’t want to get a sitter, I’d like to talk about that. Is it the money? Was he hoping for us to do something else Friday night? Is he just tired? Upset about something else? I’m happy to talk about money, or whatever. And if he’s upset about something else, I feel like he owes it to me to say “I’m sorry. I’m upset about [x] and it’s making me edgy.” It makes me crazy.

    • Hollis

      I think this is what people are referring to when they say someone is being “passive-aggressive.” I think it would be good to talk about this sometime when you are distant from the situation – like when you are both happy and relaxed and he is open to talking candidly. This is not a good conversation style if it leaves you feeling like you don’t know what’s going on. Maybe talk about a stock phrase he can use when he doesn’t feel like talking about it in the moment but it’s not about you and he just needs time to process.

      • Anon

        Yes, I’ve realized he’s often passive-aggressive and I’m not sure why. For example, he said he would walk the dog every morning before work. He walked the dog twice and then didn’t do it again. I started asking if he was going to walk the dog and he would get upset “I was at work until 11:00pm so I wasn’t going to get up at 6:00 to walk the dog!” But it seemed like there was something every day. When I said “hey, this you walking the dog thing isn’t happening. What can we do differently?” meaning should I walk the dog, should we hire someone, should the dog go to doggie daycare, etc. he reacted as if I’d come in shouting at him that he was a terrible person for not walking the dog! Look, I’d be happy if he’d walk the dog. But if that’s not working, let’s find a new solution. I sometimes feel like he’s reacting to what he imagines my response will be (based on…?…some imagined stereotypical harpy wife?) instead of what I’m actually doing. In the end, it becomes impossible to address the situation. And then he frames it as me putting it on him to walk the dog when he never said he wasn’t ok with taking responsibility for walking the dog in the mornings.

    • WestCoast Lawyer

      Whoops, hit report instead of reply.

      I am just like you and could very well be married to your husband. I wish I could say that I found some magical way of getting mine to communicate, but alas – no. One thing he explained to me was that when he is in a bad mood he doesn’t want to talk because he’s afraid he’ll say something nasty that he doesn’t really mean and so he just bites his tongue. I’m a talker like you, and would rather just either discuss the issue or hear “I’m just cranky, give me 30/60/90 minutes to get over it.” On my better days, one thing that helps is to actively decide that I’m not going to let his bad mood be my problem if he doesn’t want to talk about it. So in your example about the work event, just hire the babysitter, go enjoy your event and don’t worry about whether he’s upset about it unless he decides to bring it up.

      • new anon

        I agree with this. Generally I’m more like you two, WestCoast and Anon (and am married to someone who, while he makes an effort to communicate, doesn’t always tell me everything I think would be important/helpful), but I do recognize that there are times when I just feel grumpy and don’t want to share for whatever reason. Usually it’s that I think I’m being unreasonable and know I’ll get over it, sometimes it’s that I’m not really sure what’s bothering me and want to think more, but I’m virtually never holding back out of anger, to punish my husband, or anything similar. I’ve found that when I’m bothered by his declining to discuss something, it’s because I’m making his upset my problem and feel as through it’s my responsibility to fix it.

        Recently, I’ve been trying to remind myself that people are allowed to feel unhappy about something, that it’s not my job to fix it, that it almost certainly isn’t personal, and that I really appreciate when my husband gives me that kind of space when the situation is reversed. Keeping that in mind helps me feel less anxious and also nag him less; it also raises the odds that we can discuss the thing later if it turns out to be a big deal.

        That all said, the dog thing would really drive me up the wall. My recommendation there is to discuss it at a totally unrelated time in a “Hey, we made this plan but it’s clearly not a good plan because it’s not fitting into our lives. Let’s talk about a new plan,” kind of way.

    • CHJ

      My husband can be like this, and I find that it stops, quite quickly, if I just take him at his word. “Can we get a sitter tomorrow?” – “Grumble grumble… yes.” OK, sitter hired. You’re grouchy and withdrawn? Cool. I’ll go in the other room and read a good book on my Kindle. He’ll either learn to use his words, or you’ll get to do whatever you wanted to do anyway because he’s being passive aggressive and can’t use his words.

    • Killer Kitten Heels

      Here’s the thing: You are not responsible for managing his thoughts or feelings or opinions about things. To go with your babysitter example – your responsibility in that equation was to do exactly what you did, which was to ask whether it was cool to hire the babysitter so you could go to work-thing. That’s it. That’s all. Trying to read between the tea leaves to discern “what he really meant” when he said yes is *not* your responsibility. If he’s cranky, and it’s at you, it’s on him to tell you that, not on you to read his emotions and then drag statements about said emotions out of him. Right now, I feel like you’re spending a lot of time looking for what his words/behavior “really mean” – it’s exhausting, I’m sure, and also ridiculous that you’re trying to magically read your husband’s mind about his needs/wants when he’s a grown man who is capable of speech and capable of using his speech-powers to communicate his needs/wants directly.

      My advice? Stop shouldering the responsibility of figuring out and articulating and addressing his needs/wants for him, and start taking everything he says/does at face value. If he seems like he doesn’t want to talk? Go call your friend. If he says it’s okay with him if you hire a babysitter? Hire a sitter. If he says everything’s fine? Proceed as if everything is fine. If there’s something he wants to see “changed or addressed,” he can use his words and change and address it. If it’s not important enough to him to use his words, move on. His mood doesn’t have to be your mood, and you are not responsible for “fixing” his moods. It seems like you’re on him for not “communicating” with you, but he actually IS communicating with you – he’s communicating that he doesn’t want to talk about what’s bothering him. Back off.

      • Anon

        Thanks everyone. You’re right that I should just stop trying to fix it. To get all armchair analytical, in my family, being in a bad mood was not allowed. You could go to your room and feel sad, but you needed to do it quickly and get over it, and you shouldn’t come out and try to be with other people until you were happy again. If you did, you’d get in trouble for “ruining” dinner/the evening/whatever when everyone else had been happy. So when he’s in a bad mood, I feel like he shouldn’t be inflicting his bad mood on me. Meanwhile, in his family, it was all very “you can’t help what you feel”. Plus there were only sons in the family and my MIL was the type to run around saying “there there” to everyone else. There was certainly no stiff upper lip like there was in my family. Thank you for helping to remind me that his bad mood is not something he’s trying to “do” to me.

  19. Lobbyist

    I’m in a similar situation, compounded by him being a recovering alcoholic and me being an overly helpful Al Anon/ enabler/ over-function-er. I try when I get that response to just leave him alone. I can’t always manage it but when I do, it ends up better. He does snap out of it eventually (sometimes rather quickly) — the only problem is then I am hurt/annoyed that he was short with me and he’s all fine and happy now and then I am kind of pissy because why was he nasty to me when he’s mad about something else? We do go to counseling and it has gotten better (a little, slowly) over time. Mine is also ADD and very sensitive to perceived criticism which also kind of makes it worse. Good luck.

    • Totally Anon

      I just split with my SO because of a version of this kind of behavior. He had a tendency to lash out at me when he was stressed or anxious about anything. This went on for 2 years. The degrees of lashing out varied from short, snippy comments to full-blown screaming and yelling. Somehow, I always found myself being the “reason” that he was unable to do XYZ, or finish ABC project, or take care of XYZ thing. On these kinds of days, everything I said or did was a problem or an issue, and he needed to point out how I was wrong when I said this, or wrong when I said that, or terrible when I did this, or did that. It got to a point where I was super-concerned about his mood, because his mood would dictate “our” mood, and I would try to manage my interactions with him so as to not set him off when he was in a cranky or nasty mood.

      In the end, I realized I was drained. Not only was I drained, I was miserable. I couldn’t relax or be myself, always walking on eggshells, and feeling like he could flip out at any moment. Like Lobbyist said, he would get snappy and then be fine 10 minutes later, but I would still be upset and angry at his comments and this would eventually lead to a fight.

      I also realized that to a large extent, this is emotional abuse and it’s not okay. So I left.

      I hope you can find the right solution for you. I know it’s tough.

  20. BankrAtty

    I don’t understand how wearing a short skirt precludes me from being a “lady.” #patriarchy

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