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Updated: Nov 4, 2020 556 Comments · by

Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Mariah Ribbed Knit Maxi Dress

The Personal Shopper (TPS) |

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Who says maxi dresses are just for summer? This ribbed maxi looks like a great WFH outfit for cooler months. I can’t support the styling in this photo — even in the comfort of my own home, I won’t be doing socks with sandals — but I would love to see this dress with a pair of flats or ankle boots or even a lowtop sneaker. These Stan Smiths are probably going to make their way to my house sometime soon and would be so cute.

This cheery chartreuse color will be perfect for dreary winter days, but if yellow isn’t your thing, it also comes in heather gray, sapphire white (a really pretty blue and white heather), and spice coral.

The dress is $118 and available in sizes 1X–3X and XXS–XL. Mariah Ribbed Knit Maxi Dress

Sales of note for 9.30.24

Sales of note for 9.30.24

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. Distraction survey

    Distraction survey while we wait for results to come in. Say you bought a necklace – simple gold with diamond bezel. An everyday necklace so you never take it off or touch it through sleep, shower, gym, life. One morning you discover it’s just gone and you have no idea how – thought is that it broke and fell off? The retailer has a one year warranty and it’s been less than a year but of course the necklace is “lost”. What would you expect / do?

    • Anon

      I’d talk to the retailer. If my personal use suggests there is something wrong with the product, it’s worth a try.

      • Anonymous

        She ran over it with her car after hitting it repeatedly with a baseball bat. That’s not the result of a product defect.

    • Anonymous

      I would be sad but realize it’s not anyone’s fault that you lost it. I don’t see how this is a retailer problem, especially since you don’t even have a chain or clasp for repair.

      • NY CPA

        +1
        I would suspect it was the clasp, but there is no way to prove that and I don’t think if I was the retailer I’d be motivated to replace a “missing” necklace that you have no way to prove actually broke and fell off (vs. them thinking you’re lying and maybe you lost it or gave it away or something).

    • Anonymous

      I’d expect to not have a necklace of replace it with my own funds. Always purchase a sturdier chain than the one it comes with when necessary.

    • anon

      I would buy a new necklace? I can’t see how you can blame the manufacturer for this.

    • Anon

      This is not the retailer’s problem. Taking advantage of these policies is why I fear someone like Nordstrom is going to stop being so generous.

      I wear a necklace with the same frequency you do. I don’t touch it intentionally, ever. But I have long hair, I blow dry my hair. Put clothes on/off over my head and neck. It gets tugged and pulled at constantly. I once broke the chain, and I attributed it to my constant wear and the collateral damage it was receiving from constant wear.

    • Cat

      I’d be bummed and ask the retailer, but wouldn’t push too hard. Delicate jewelry isn’t meant to be worn 24×7 for all activities.

      • Anon

        I don’t think any jewelry is meant to be worn 24/7 like that. I would not expect a replacement either.

        • Anonymous

          It’s not & any retailer will tell you this. It’s not normal wear and tear when someone treats it so harshly.

      • The original Scarlett

        Phew, I was wondering if I’ve been necklacing correctly – I take them off at night and generally cannot stand sleeping in any jewelry

        • Anon

          Agreed. It would never even occur to me to consider doing this and I genuinely don’t understand people who do.

    • Anonie

      I am honestly so sorry you lost your necklace, but this is not the retailer’s fault in any way. You can certainly try asking, but don’t go in expecting the conversation to go in your favor.

    • Anonymous

      I would expect to be sad I lost my necklace and take better care of my things in the future.

    • Anon

      I’ve been wearing the same delicate necklace 24/7 since spring of 2014; I’ve taken it off only about 3-4 times to wear something different for a special event. I would be upset and disappointed if something happened to it, but it’s not the retailer or manufacturer’s fault.

    • Anonymous

      Some credit cards offer random warranties for lost items (I once had prescription sunglasses replaced by my card after they were knocked off my face and into the ocean at the beach – and I was fully transparent about what happened). I would check there first, but not expect the manufacturer or retailer to take the blame after almost a year of daily wear.

      • LaurenB

        I lost the stone in my wedding ring (it’s a solitaire in high prongs) and reported it to insurance and was about to get a replacement — when I found the stone a few weeks after the loss in a drawer where I keep folded sweatpants. It was winter and I routinely would wear yoga pants to work out but layer sweatpants over it for warmth. I must have taken off the sweatpants, got the diamond snagged in it without my noticing, folded them up (since they didn’t need washing) and put them in the drawer. In any case, when I called my insurance company to tell them I didn’t need the replacement stone, they did tell me that my insurance would cover having a jeweler reset the stone and retighten the prongs. I offer this up bc I do wear my ring 24/7 but I am very conscious of the prongs and have them checked periodically. Apparently one prong had loosened enough to let the stone out.

      • Senior Attorney

        Yes, I was going to suggest seeing about credit card coverage. Other than that I think you’re out of luck.

    • Anon

      It sounds like you lost your necklace. I’m sorry that happened to you and I hope it turns up somewhere. But the jeweler who made it is not responsible for that. I agree about checking with the credit card. If you decide to replace it with the same style from the same jewelry, you’re better off trying to elicit sympathy for a discount rather than demanding they replace it (or to cut off where I know you’re headed, do not demand the discount because it was “partially their fault.” It wasn’t.)

    • Anonymous

      Same. Even if Biden wins it is so disappointing to see how many people voted for Trump. In 2016 I could at least tell myself they voted against Obama’s legacy/to get Supreme Court seats/against HRC etc. This time it’s clear how many people are fine with a racist anti-science President. I worry that people like those who plotted against Whitmer feel further emboldened.

      • Anon

        This is where I’m at with it. Even if Biden wins at this point, it feels like a hollow victory. My state also passed an anti-abortion constitutional amendment yesterday (to the state constitution, obviously), so I just feel sick and gross, and wondering if it is at least worth moving to a different state.

          • anon

            I jsut read the Wikipedia entry. It looks like some were Dems or at least liberal and some weren’t. One had a death wish for Trump, one called Trump a tyrant, one was a BLM supporter, for example.

          • Anon

            I just checked your sources. There was a confidential informant in the group who may or may not have been your alleged BLM supporter, but the message of the leader and the “militia” was consistently anti-liberal and anti-Muslim. Don’t spread misinformation.

        • LaurenB

          Without giving away too much, I have a personal connection to Whitmer. This was the far-right, make no mistake about it. It was the same yee-haws who brought guns to the state capitol wanting the state to open up.

      • Anonymous

        +1 to all this. As much as I told myself it was unlikely, I really can’t believe there wasn’t a huge blue wave to fully reject the past four years. I’m so disgusted and it’s been a really rough morning.

        • anon

          Yep. So disappointed. People who voted for him this time can’t pretend that they think he can change or be reigned in or rise to the occasion or that anything he said during the 2016 campaign was just bluster or hyperbole. Not that I ever though those justifications had any validity….

      • Anon

        “This time it’s clear how many people are fine with a racist anti-science President.”

        With all due respect, you need to do a closer look at election returns. Clinton won Miami by 29 in 2019; Biden won by single digits. The Rio Grande Valley – districts that are up to 88% Latino – were squeakers for Biden, and Trump outright won one. The Latino vote and the black vote went Republican in a pretty big way, especially compared to historical norms.

        There is a massive gap between what the white upper class considers racist and what Latinos and Latinas consider racist. Whites will chide other whites about using ever-changing terms (“sexual preference,” although not related to racism, is a perfect example of this); Latinos and Latinas are more concerned with job opportunities for the working class and, surprisingly, ending illegal immigration. The Rio Grande Valley is telling you something shocking.

        Trump is up with every demographic except white men. What the tastemakers think and what other people think aren’t the same thing. In 2016, you all promised to get out of your bubble, then spent four years diving even further into it. Like Clinton, Biden outspent Trump by a landslide (literally about a half billion dollars), and the question is whether it’s enough to eke out 270 votes in the Electoral College.

        • Anonymous

          The fact that Latinx people are concerned with jobs doesn’t mean Trump isn’t racist. The fact that non-white people vote for him doesn’t make him not racist.

          And I hope in the future you improve your educational opportunities so that you can understand the long term consequences of electing an anti-science president.

          • Anon

            The fact that you just called them Latinx when most Latinos prefer Latino/Latina is the problem. Woke white people don’t get to tell minorities what to think.

          • LaurenB

            Oh, so Latino/Latina people are more concerned over being referred to as Latinx than they are about following science?

          • Anonymous

            Yeah, sadly I agree with Anon at 11:32. I was surprised to learn that a very small minority (like, <10%) of Latino/Latinas consider themselves "Latinx." It illustrates the disconnect to me so well now.

          • Anon

            Most Latino/Latina people find “Latinx” to be offensive and denigrating to their language and culture.

            And Anonymous? My education is QUITE good, thank you very much. I hope one day you can use your education the way I used mine: to think critically and be able to engage with other’s ideas without insulting them.

          • Huge lib, but

            Latina who is a huge lib–previously supported Bernie, but voted for Hillary and supported Biden, but 100% to the Latinx comment. Native Spanish speaker and know only a couple of Latinos who refer to themselves as “Latinx.” It doesn’t really work with our language and a lot of us don’t like being called “Latinx.”

            A couple of notes that would be helpful for everyone: (1) Read the article about Latinos + Christianity (I think NYT?)–for a lot of Latinos being “Christian” and voting for things like anti-choice policies and “supporting Israel” are more important than the situation at the border. My parents fall into this group and just like their friends, they “support” Trump. They think he is being used like many of the “kings” in the Old Restatement who were terrible, but God used them to protect his people, etc. (2) Read pretty much anything about Florida Latinos (i.e., mostly Cubans), who feel and act as better than the rest of us Latinos because most of them and their families have green cards/status due to the dry-foot policies that have been in place for decades.

          • Anonymous

            LOL at Anon 12:28pm’s claim of a good education. I guess if you don’t have a problem with a President that invents whatever facts he wants then you can invent a good education for yourself. That’s not how actual education works, but nice try. I know facts are big and scary but that doesn’t make them less true.

        • Anon

          I agree with the overall point and I actually think a lot of the left is totally delusional on social issues, but Trump literally says racial slurs. He put Latino and Latina kids in cages. Does it get clearer than that?

          • Anon

            You mean who created overflow for the droves of immigrants coming to the country that flourished under his governance, kept families together, and processed their stories and background paperwork within three days to be released to family or deported back?

            Please ask complete questions when you speak.

          • anon

            @10:43. STOP. His Policy. 545 children who will NEVER be reunited with their parents. There is no excuse. Do not try to blame Obama on this. Doing so is a concession that it is grossly wrong and impossible to excuse so the only option is to try to pass the buck. But it stops with Trump (and Steven Miller).

          • Anon

            Most of those 545 “children” are young adults (older than 16), have parents who have been located, and their parents do not want to be reunited with their children in their home countries.

            Learn a bit about what exactly is going on at the border. Just a bit. Please.

          • Anonymous

            That’s literally completely made up and false. “Most of those 545 “children” are young adults (older than 16), have parents who have been located”

            Try understanding the concept of factual information sometime.

        • Anon

          With all due respect how does that any of that mean they’re not okay with a racist a-hole?

        • anon

          +1. Latina here who has switched to supporting Republicans over the last couple of elections. In this election, I voted against Democrats/liberals. Wish the Republican Party had a better candidate than Trump, but it is better than the liberal agenda. BTW, I live in a very liberal east coast city, am highly educated. All of my friends (as far as I know) voted for Biden/Harris. Of course I didn’t disclose who I was voting for and mostly kept silent, because the liberal backlash is so strong. Suddenly, I would be “evil”.

          • Anonymous

            Can you explain what you mean by liberal agenda? And how it’s a more immediate & severe problem than Trump’s outright lies and disinformation regarding the pandemic, for example? I really don’t know what you’re getting at here.

          • Anonymous

            If you can’t defend your position, you might want to rethink it. You made no effort to do that even here, where you are anonymous. I am genuinely open to hearing it if you want to even try.

          • Anon

            Where I live people drive around with guns yelling MAGA out of their trucks, but sure, be afraid that your friends will think of you differently. That’s definitely liberal oppression right there.

          • LaurenB

            What’s the “liberal agenda” that’s so frightening? Science? Facts? Human decency? My god. This isn’t 2008 Obama/Romney where one could live with the other candidate. Do you seriously not get what a clown Trump is and how he undermines democracy?

          • Anon

            I am a woman POC (non Latina), non voter (on visa). I will be disappointed to see Trump lose and if I could vote, I would vote R. Yes, MAGA crowd scares me. I hate the R’s position on social issues. However, I would still vote for them as D’s positions are more dangerous to me than Rs (including white supremacists). Now, I cannot tell why because the moment I tell why, I will be called all kind of names.

            The issue with Ds is that they have tricked themselves into believing they are morally superior and all others are deplorables. Most of the ordinary people don’t have to have a conversation where they are just branded as evil for having legitimate concerns. Obviously, this situation leads to lot of surprises.

          • Anon

            “If you can’t defend your position, you might want to rethink it. You made no effort to do that even here, where you are anonymous. I am genuinely open to hearing it if you want to even try.”

            No, you’re not. Even if you are, twenty other women will jump all over us. We just give a non-answer, vote Trump, and pretend like you’re right BECAUSE WE ARE SO TIRED OF YOU INSULTING US WHEN WE TRY TO EXPLAIN OURSELVES.

            I have had “conversations” wherein libs steamroll me to interject with the same old tired talking points that I’ve heard a thousand times and do not agree with. Sometimes, I’ve asked them if they will let me repeat their position back at them so they can explain where my understanding of it is wrong. The SHOCK when I explain it better than they can is a sight to behold. When I start refuting it, circuits fry in their brain; they have no idea that people can understand their position and disagree with it. They stammer and scream and get bug-eyed.

            You don’t believe there’s even a slight chance you’re wrong, so I’m not explaining it. You got your explanation last night, when a billion dollars for the Presidency, twitter, facebook, the media, the Lincoln Project, and four years of unrelenting attacks got you, maybe, an eked-out victory.

          • anon

            It’s an anonymous forum, babe. If you can’t clarify why Dem positions are “dangerous” to you, then you’re a tr0ll.

          • Anon

            Does it bother you that Trump incites people to violence; that his supporters plotted to kidnap and murder the governor of Michigan and he didn’t condemn it; that he won’t condemn white supremacists, actively encourages hatred of Muslims, and generally sows hatred and division at every opportunity; that he lies constantly about the state of the pandemic and discourages people from taking basic precautionary measures that could save lives? These are just the things that come immediately to mind, but the list goes on. He *is* evil, and the country grows uglier and more unstable by the day under this (lack of) leadership.

          • Anon

            Yes, because you are evil. That’s why people say you’re evil. Because you are.

          • Anonymous

            @Anon 12:26. How can you be angry at us when we genuinely do not know your position? Maybe there’s some value in acknowledging your real reason, but what value do you think there is in keeping it a secret? So people will be nice to you on an anonymous chat board when you are deliberately telling them they’re wrong & mean but you’re not going to be honest? I think the nicety ship has already sailed, you might as well come out with it. I genuinely don’t know the reason you are hinting at and would like to understand your position better.

          • Anonymous

            Yes, if the liberal policies are so great, then why are so many liberals running from California and its “progressive” policies to red states?
            Like other posters, I am SO sick of being scolded and lectured by the liberal elite, in real life and by celebrities, the media, social media oligarchs, etc.
            The results speak for themselves. Many of us nod and smile so as to have to endure your screaming that we are racists. The notion that we are branded racists because we dont support the leftist policies being pushed by the democrats is a childish manipulation tactic. If my choice is vote for someone who I dont actually like because I truly believe that the policies, on average, better serve our country, including POC, then I am entitled to do so and it does not make me a racist. The left created this false dichotomy, “you are a racist if you vote GOP” to keep the masses from applying critical thinking skills and nuance to their policies because they know that most Americans simply are not on board with the Sanders/AOC agenda, so its much easier to get them to vote their way by branding any nonconformists “racist.”

          • LatinaAnon

            hi! another latina here (mexican-american) who understands that WE ARE NOT A MONOLITH and there is no uniform “latino/a/x vote.” However, I believe that voting for Trump only strengthens the rhetoric that sees us (and other POC) as “other” and I refuse to let my country go in that direction. My other brown people know what I am talking about- the constant questions, “where are you from? no, where are you really from?” “your English is so good” “please get me a coffee/copy/etc” (when you are the boss but always assumed to be “the help”). Voting for Trump is a vote for white supremacy and you are voting for a man that DOESN’T WANT YOU TO BE A PART OF AMERICA.

          • anon

            “However, I would still vote for them as D’s positions are more dangerous to me than Rs (including white supremacists). Now, I cannot tell why because the moment I tell why, I will be called all kind of names.”

            How are we supposed to understand when you don’t tell us? We’re supposed to listen to you all and get crucified for not doing so, but yet you refuse to share?

          • anonymous

            “The SHOCK when I explain it better than they can is a sight to behold. When I start refuting it, circuits fry in their brain; they have no idea that people can understand their position and disagree with it. They stammer and scream and get bug-eyed.”

            Yes, I’m sure you’re probably a really genuine person and one who is willing to discuss and listen in good faith. This description of “the libs” just screams “I’m open minded and polite.”

          • Anon

            Anonymous@1:49PM
            Let me give you an example of what I experienced. I was not even divulging my political position. I worked for a manager who was a Trump supporter. My current team was shocked that I used to work for her because she was a “Trumpster”. The said manager is a women POC who came to this country as a child and married to a white man. So, she is not some super privileged white woman. The mistake I did was not joining the chorus and bashing her for her political views. I told my team that she may be a Trump supporter, but she had the most diverse team (White, Black, Asian, Hispanic) and she was a very good manager. Next day I had to respond to a hypothetical situation which was designed to
            extract my political stand. I came to know this was all about judging my political inclination when I asked (after answering what I would do in that hypothetical situation) what it was all about. Thankfully, elite Ds in my team were satisfied with my answer and possibly saved me from discrimination. That day I decided I will keep my views to myself. I have already been called evil here in response to my above comment, so this is not the place where I am going to open up even if it is an anonymous board.

        • Anonymous

          I wanted to ask why there was this shift? To me Hillary and Joe are pretty indistinguishable when it comes to core policy positions?

          • Anon

            I think it’s less about policy and more that the economy has generally been pretty good, and no one cares about racism if they’re doing well financially.

          • anon

            I started broadening my news sources, to be honest. I still read the NYTimes today but with a grain of salt. Read more about economics and engaged in more debates with conservatives (some of them very smart, a lot of smarter than me) and really understood their point of view and reasoning and also looked to socially liberal agendas around the globe and how that worked out. The shift in thinking happened over several years. Liberals who are shocked don’t meaningfully step outside of their bubble so again are surprised when half the country doesn’t agree with them or see the solutions in the same way that they do. It should be shocking to liberals that they are shocked that so much of the country holds vastly opposing views but alas…

    • Anon

      Yep. The fact that it’s so.close means im.deeply disappointed in a lot of folks.

      • Ellen

        Yes, we are disappointed, but what the HIVE fails to recognise is that we, as a group, are much more educated, much more smart, and much more enlightened then the general American voting populace. When you see all of the shirtless people iding around in pickup trucks waiving flags and drinking beer, and others, including Guliani, getting a film cameo in Borat, you have to understand that there are alot more of them then there are of us. Once we realise that America is full of less educated people who relate to the president-in-chief, you can see why the voting is coming out this way. But it is not over. We read the newspapers and press every day; others don’t. Now granted the newspapers are very pro-Biden, that does not change the way they vote. The Trumpets do not want America to change. They do not believe the things we do. They are just different. So once we know this and accept this, we can better understand who we are as a people. Mabye things will be all different in 20 years, or so, but not yet. Moreover, and this is IMPORTANT, the election is not over, so Biden may still win, and some are confident in same. He is still leading in the Electroral vote now, so that is alot better then loosing. Cheer up, HIVETTES, things will play out in the next week and we can all then go back to being ourself. YAY!!

    • Cat

      ahhhh same. Today’s worse than yesterday — let’s hope the stats on mail in ballots are as predicted :/

    • pugsnbourbon

      I’m a mess. I somehow managed to be a little productive yesterday, which is good, because today doesn’t look amazing.

      • Anonymous

        I was completely useless yesterday. It’s 2020 so that I woke up to “we’re still counting” is kind of good news… Also not surprised at all Trump was falsely declaring victory before all votes have counted – these last 4 years have been depressing to see that the IS elected (!) president is basically one of those corrupt despots in some Asian, African, and South American countries (my parents come from one of those countries).

    • Cb

      Ugh, I am so devastated. I know it’s not over until its over, but the idea that 4 years of horrific leadership and a total absence of character didn’t dissuade people from voting for Trump is heartbreaking.

      • Anon

        All Trump voters may not be racists, but all of them decided it’s not a dealbreaker.

        • Anon

          Sexual assault isn’t a dealbreaker either. I hate the men who lead the support for Trump and all they stand for.

        • Anon

          I know that’s the nicer way to say it but I’ll blatantly say that yes, all Trumpers are racist. Just because you aren’t shouting slurs in the streets doesn’t mean you are. If you vote for someone that actively encourages hate crimes, hate groups, and domestic terrorists publicly and proudly, then yes, you are racist. Cry if you want to but it’s true.

          • Anon

            Trump actually *does* shout slurs in the street. His comments about Congresswoman Omar (I’m sure we can all hear the sneer in his voice and see it on his ugly face when he says her name) were . . . I was about to write “unbelievable”, but I now believe there is no base thing that Trump wouldn’t do.

          • Anon

            +1 million. The delicate snowflake conservatives who post here and then cry that they are so maligned and marginalized are going to deny this up and down, but it’s the truth. In some situations in life, if you are not against it, you are for it. Racism is not a “nuanced issue.” People supporting Trump signal their support for his racism. It is not difficult to understand.

          • Anonymous

            When he said there were good people on both sides and then refused to back walk that in anyway, he became a blatant racist.

      • anon

        This has forever changed how I view certain people. I mean, it all started during the 2016 election, but the knots they’ll twist themselves in to defend 45’s utter lack of character, four years later, is baffling. These relationships will never be the same because now I know who they are.

      • anon

        With regards to the exit poll link, if I am understanding the information correctly, it looks like a lot of white, rich, reportedly evangelical woman (once again) voted for Trump. And that’s a big shame on them.
        On that note I am completely disgusted by men and women evangelicals who support Trump. Shame on all of them.
        Now what their motivations were is where there miiight be value in figuring out how to counter them in the future: are they single issues voters? It seems evangelicals are groomed since birth to vote for the Republicans to overturn Roe afterall.
        Are they voting against their own longer term best interests because it provides them short term gain or stability? Carrol Hay, in her book think like a feminist, rightly points out that women will often work against their own self interest and prop up the patriarchy because they realize trying to fight the system makes their already hard life that much harder. That doesn’t absolve them of their harmful actions, but it helps makes sense of why they capitalize on whatever they can from a patriarchal system, even if it hurts them in the long run, instead of outright fighting it. I’d wager many of us on this thread made this sort of compromise in our career and daily decisions, consciously or not. The author makes it plain that these less than ideal decisions are a fact of life and survival mechanism less than a character flaw, but in a better world, women wouldn’t be as trapped between rocks and hard places.

        Lastly I am just so sad that there hasn’t been a land slide for anyone other than Trump and his rump kissing legislative following. I do not understand it, and I had hopes that with a higher voter turn out there would be a strong message that he and his ilk need to go.

        • Z

          I hate this attitude. Maybe we should give women some credit. Maybe we know what is in our best interest. Maybe we don’t need someone else telling us we are doing it wrong. Maybe one party should not be so condescending to the very people they are trying to get to vote for them. It is not going to work. Signed not a trump voter.

          • Anon

            +1 I voted for Clinton in 2016 and Biden yesterday but my god, this type of rhetoric really turns off a lot of people.

          • Anon-na-nah

            This attitude makes no sense to me. Hurt feelings so you decide to vote for a tyrant instead who, btw, doesn’t GAF about you? Baffling.

            Drop the pretense. Rich, white women voted for Trump because they’re comfortable and are protecting that comfort. And probably too because their daddies told them to.

        • Anonymous

          Do you not understand that people exist who have strongly held religious views? This comment applies to both this string and the string about racism. I get a lot of Catholic news in my feed, and conservative religious figures were saying that it would be contrary to doctrine to vote for Biden. Certainly Evangelical Christians were saying the same thing. It is not surprising to me that conservative Catholic voters would support Trump. In addition, only a subset of Catholics are from the Liberal tradition of helping the poor that would make immigration more important than core church doctrine.

          • Anon

            I have strongly held Catholic views that aren’t Liberal, and I think conservative religious figures should stop lying about “core” church doctrines for political reasons.

      • Alanna of Trebond

        I am not very surprised — the only reason it is so close is because of the pandemic. The economy under Trump was very good. (And I voted for Clinton, who was a better candidate than Biden, and I now voted for Biden).

        • Anon

          That was my first instinct – that the pandemic helped Biden – but I actually know a lot of people who are in denial about the seriousness of Covid and want to get back to normal life, and voted against Biden because they believed the rhetoric that he was going to put the whole country in lockdown again. So I don’t know that the pandemic helped Biden as much as people think.

          I am a committed Dem and voted for Biden and our Democratic attorney general, congressional and state legislature candidates, but I actually voted for my (relatively sane) Republican governor because the Democrat was very outspoken about keeping schools closed until Covid is completely gone, and I think that’s an absurd position, especially if you’re allowing indoor business like bars and gyms to be open.

        • Anon

          This is a good point.

          Unrelated — Alanna of Trebond, you recommended Furnish Green here to someone else a year or two ago, and I’ve since bought several pieces of furniture them and I *loooove* them, so thank you!

      • Marie

        This is exactly how I feel. I am nauseous and disgusted over the state of this country’s values.

      • Anonymous

        I read the WSJ coverage before the election. They characterized the race as between someone who is strong on taxes and has a unique style of governing, versus a tax and spend liberal. At no point did they consider the risk to the Republic if a corrupt Russia style tyrant is permitted to continue in office.

      • Huh!

        I am floored that Prop 22 went through. With a caveat that I don’t live in CA, I am very interested to see commentary on that vote:

        Were voters thinking, well you started driving uber knowing it was not a real job so now you lie in your bed? Is there a larger economic factor to it? Does money fueled into ads/media really make that much of a difference? Do people impute bad actions of Uber/lyft mega-corp to the drivers? Was there a Union element at play?

        • Anon

          I don’t know a lot about prop 22 but I think it is complicated in the sense that there are people that actually do prefer being independent contractors in the actual literal sense of what it is supposed to mean. People that have a skill that they provide to various business under their own company. I think the legit ICs may have been afraid prop 22 would take away their business too.

          • Anon

            I honestly think it is about all the freelance creative and tech people in California who are ICs and like it, and who bought into the idea that they would lose their livelihoods if Prop 22 passed. I don’t agree with Uber, Lyft, etc. treating their employees as contractors; however, I know a couple of (highly paid) independent consultants in CA who are die-hard Dems, but felt Prop 22 was overreach and were concerned about their livelihood. One of them is a longtime friend who has not held a “real job” in 20 years, fully supports his family (and then some) with his independent contractor work, and was livid about the proposition of that having to change because of the law. He had already had one very well-paying, longtime client tell him they might have to stop working with him if Prop 22 passed. That’s pretty powerful when that work is what puts food on your family’s table.

      • Anon

        Not in California so I don’t know a lot about Prop 22 but isn’t the fact that the drivers get to decide when and where they work what makes them independent contractors. Uber can’t say you have to work noon to six on Sunday. They just turn the app on when they want to work. How are they not independent contractors?

        • Anon

          That is far from the point. That is what the yes on 22 campaign would have you believe but the campaign was really about whether Uber and Lyft should be responsible for workers’ compensation, unemployment, and other standard benefits for their employees. And yes, they are employees. That was decided in a landmark case called Dynamex which defined what an employee is, and codified by the state legislature. Prop 22 was an, apparently successful, attempt to undo the laws aimed at them.

        • Anonymous

          They don’t set their own rates for one thing. And therefore end up working for less than minimum wage when taxes, wear & tear on their vehicles, insurance, etc. are considered. Also, I don’t know if anyone considers wait time but that also brings drivers’ hourly wages down considerably.

          • Anonymous

            And they don’t have multiple clients as independent contractors usually do. They really only have one client and that’s Uber.

        • anon

          The inquiry as to whether you’re an independent contractor or an employee is much more complex than a simple question of when/where you work. Also, everything Anon at 11:07 said.

    • Emma

      Same here. Barely slept, nausea, not sure how I will function at work. And we might not know until tomorrow. Ugh.

    • Anon

      agreed. Devastated. also- who are all of these polling people who seem to keep getting it so wrong- they’re like worse than the weather people. I wish Obama had done more campaigning on Biden’s behalf. I’m truly truly petrified of what this country will look like in four years. Whose to say the next one won’t be worse than Trump since apparently there are zero qualifications to be president

      • anon

        My husband is such a Nate Silver fangirl and I’m like … BUT HE GOT IT SO WRONG IN 2016! I still haven’t recovered. Margin of error, my a##.

      • Anon

        I know, f*ck Five Thirty Eight. Why do I keep falling for their crap.

        Also, f*ck Twitter for publishing Trump’s decoration of victory and then slapping a teensy warning on it.

      • Anonymous

        I’m not assuming he will leave in 4 years, if he wins I think they will go for an amendment.

          • Anonymous

            Putin would legit straight up help him. I can’t believe Americans don’t realize enough about international affairs to see how a weakened isolated US under Trump helps both Russia and China so much. Trump is Putin’s dream candidate.

        • anon

          Since 2016, I’ve thought Trump would win re-election this year and, if alive in 2024, win again. Theoretically, that would require a constitutional amendment, but not if they create some lie about why one term doesn’t “count,” and nobody decides to enforce the term limit.

          • Anon

            Yes, I think it will take the military removing him from office for it to happen. I’m hoping it happens after a decisive Biden victory that’s upheld by the supreme court but I’m no longer holding my breath for that.

          • Anon

            I’m still a little afraid that Biden will barely win, inherit a giant mess that he can’t really fix, and then lose to Trump or someone similar in 2024.

      • Anon

        The polls that got it the closest were the ones that asked people who their social circle was voting for and who they thought would win. People do not tell pollsters that they support Trump, but they’ll tell pollsters that the family across the street who doesn’t have any Biden lawn signs are closet Trumpies.

        • Anon

          I think this is really important. It’s part of why we cannot just call people racist and shut them down. We know they’re racist, but we need to engage more so we can help educate them about why racism matters and should matter to them in their white suburb, rural community, or top 1%. Shutting people down just makes them racist and liars.

    • anon

      I feel worse than I did yesterday. I feel hungover, even though I went to bed early, didn’t drink, and had zero fun last night. I am sickened by how many people still support this guy.

      • Anonymous

        Same, exactly! Didn’t drink, went to bed at a reasonable time, feel legitimately hungover this morning.

    • Leatty

      Ugh, yes. I don’t think our democracy can withstand another 4 years of 45, especially if the Rs retain control of the Senate.

      If 45 wins, I’m definitely moving to a blue state. My swing state utterly failed me (again), and I’m so disgusted by the general state of affairs here that I don’t want to raise my kids here.

    • Anon

      Anyone have insight on the WaPo article that a federal court ordered the post master general to inspect for delayed election mail and get it there on time and the PMG just said “nah”? How the F does that work. Can the election be challenged that the PMG was supposed to get those votes counted? What recourse does the court have? Jail the PMG for a few days for contempt? Where is the accountability / separation of powers? How does a federal agency just ignore a court order?

      • Anon

        Also want to know the answer to this. This election is being stolen by the administrative and court crony packing committed by Trump.

      • Anonymous

        Ignoring court orders they don’t like is testing the bounds of democracy. The courts are supposed to be a check on unbridled executive power.

        • Anon

          Whatever happened to those Republicans who were putting up the phony ballot boxes and ignored the court orders to take them down? We’re there ever any consequences for that?

          • Anonymous

            None that I’ve seen so far. Republicans are not just conservative anymore, they are actively moving into openly anti-democracy territory.

          • anonshmanon

            They had to remove the sticker that said official ballot box. It’s legal in CA for someone to drop off a ballot on someone else’s behalf (with a signature on a consent line). That means some elderly neighbors can legally have me drop off their ballot, but you just as well can entrust you friendly neighborhood Orange County Republicans with dropping off your ballot.

    • Betsy

      From my selective reading of polls and reports that agreed with my confirmation bias, I thought there was a chance this would be a runaway victory for Biden, but the more nuanced predictions said there was a real chance that it would look close on the preliminary count and then as all the votes were tallied the Democrat lead would be greater. We’ve never had an election like this before, so it’s ok that this count doesn’t look like any election we’ve had before. I’m doing my best to sit back and be patient. Which isn’t to say it’s going well, but no point in despairing yet!

      • Anon

        Yeah, Nate Silver gets a lot of sh!t but he predicted the “red mirage” in the rust belt that would be overcome once the mail-in ballots are counted (and a similar “blue mirage” in the southeast states that count absentee first). I actually don’t think he blew this election that badly.

      • Anonymous

        I felt like the shy Trump voters who elected him in 2016 were even more below the radar this time. Like if you can’t say you’d vote for him without being called a racist, would you admit that to a random person who called your house or stopped by to campaign? People should stop getting surprised about this.

        FWIW, I loathed Biden. I could see how others could (Ds; I assume Rs voted for Trump). I don’t know if b/w Biden turning off people (or others who fear a Harris successor presidency with a D house and senate) and stealth Trump voters, Trump wins, but it should 100% not be surprising that it is not a landslide (which I think was wished for, but not realistic).

        • LaurenB

          You loathed Biden? Whatever for? Do you also hate puppies, children’s laughter, and Mr Rogers?

          • Anonymous

            That reaction makes for shy Trump voters. If someone is accused of hating for puppies for saying that they don’t like Biden, imagine how far Trump voters get driven underground.

            I think a lot of people held their nose and voted for Biden. And a lot more were meh about him.

          • anon

            Different anon here. Biden is a creepy, demented old man with a racist and sexist past. If you think he’s on par with puppies and Mr. Rogers, then you’re delusional. I voted for him anyway but people like you are the reason I seriously considered leaving the top of the ballot blank.

          • Anon

            “Lying dog-faced pony soldier.”

            He threatened to beat up a auto plant worker who asked him about his position on guns, challenges people to compare IQs, was at least complicit in the “waitress sandwich,” slandered the victims of Waco, was part of the Borking of Robert Bork and the high-tech lynching of Clarence Thomas, maligned the reputation of the truck driver who hit his wife (and was 100% sober while doing so), refuses to acknowledge the existence of one of his grandchildren (as proven by a court of law)….

            But he gets away with it because he’s “Good old Joe.” I don’t look for the editorial pages of the New York Times to shape my opinion on events and think that he’s the worst kind of bully: one who punches down and is never, ever challenged on it.

        • Anon

          People who are deeply suspicious of government and believe conspiracy theories aren’t going to be the kinds of people who answer polls. I don’t know how you get an unbiased sample when that is the case.

    • Anonymous

      I felt sick last night, much better today. Biden is on track to win! With NV, AZ, WI, MI and Maine.
      I’m not even American.

      But we are all American today.

        • Aunt Jamesina

          We all know you feel sorry for us. It’s tiring. How lucky for you you don’t live here.

          I don’t know where you are, but conspiracy theories and far right populism is starting to take hold in many corners of the world. Don’t be so sure it won’t come for you.

          • Anon

            Yeah the smugness from Europeans is kind of laughable. It’s happening to you too, you’re just a little ways behind us.

          • Anon

            Yep, there were plenty of headlines this week about how democracy is in peril all over the world.

          • Anonymous

            Actually it’s not. Europe has had far right and populist issues for years. They have stable democracies without a citizenry armed to the teeth. They are not limited to two parties which makes the fringe feel like they have a voice in the system vs trying to actively destroy the democratic system.

          • LaurenB

            Europe doesn’t have the gun-toting we do. Another source of national embarrassment.

          • anon

            reminds me of that graph that made the rounds about two weeks ago, showing that Europe now is getting into similar Covid rates as the US, and lots of people concluding that they aren’t handling it better after all. The difference? A mostly normal summer without 1000 dead people every day. Europe is nowhere near as broken as the US.

    • Anon

      I guess now I’m just like, where do we go from here? People CHOSE Trump. Millions of people actively chose to vote this cruel, racist, misogynist, science-denying immoral loon.

      Living in a blue bubble makes it even weirder. I keep wondering, how is this my country? If we can’t even agree on what truth is, let alone a shared national identity, what moral character should be, and what is acceptable behavior, how are we supposed to function?

      • Anon

        Exactly. Like in the last election ok, maybe people didn’t like HRC or whatever. But this time you know what you are getting. Every person whose worked for him has said he is horrible. Also- why do any minority voters like him.

        • Anon

          QAnon candidates did pretty well. In my bubble, plandemic/anti-vaxx, “Save the Children,” and other culture wars conspiracies (did you know that Joe Biden is a communist who wants to make Christianity illegal?) attracted a lot of people who did not vote for Trump in 2016 and also people I would guess don’t normally vote at all. No idea how seriously they take this stuff, but they did seriously vote for people who promote it.

        • anon

          I do not live in a blue bubble, as most of my in laws support Trump and I am in one of the “key battleground” states that is all over the news today. I can tell you that they support Trump solely because they think he is the law and order candidate and they support police. It’s a true single issue for them. They are not educated enough to understand nuances about the economy (MIL didn’t know what a tariff was) and their only economic barometer is their 401k balance. My SIL would have voted Biden until this summer when the “defund the police” movement emerged- like I said, true single issue voters here. My MIL (white) is also an unabashed racist, though the others are not.

          • Anon

            Also in a battleground state and know lots of people terrified of BLM and Antifa and think that if the dems win, there will be no police to call.

            A neighbor actually had a lot of blue lights in front of his house last night and another neighbor was walking by with her dog and yelled to him “yay Biden” and he looked up at the lights and said “those are blue for the police, not blue for the democrats.” It remained polite but it was a glimpse into what he cared about.

          • Anon

            Here goes:

            Moving the embassy to Jerusalem
            Peace deals in the Middle East
            The Trump parades in Nigeria and Israel
            Judges, so many judges
            The first time I’ve ever seen a President de-regulate his way through a crisis instead of using it as an excuse for a power grab
            Operation Warp Speed
            Getting together with pharma, businesses, governors at the beginning of the pandemic
            Not dragging nuns into court to force them to buy birth control
            Tax cuts for the middle class
            The unparalleled support he’s received with minorities as a Republican
            The incredible efforts to end sex trafficking

            When asked by damn liberals, “Judges.” Then I let them scream at me because they will do it anyway.

          • Anon

            Same. I’m in a blue state but whole family is Alabama (rural) and suburban Atlanta. Trump is pro police and law & order, which very much appeals to the suburban ATL family. Trump/republicans are pro-life, which deeply appeals to the rural Alabama family. For some, it’s that simple (flawed, uneducated, but simple).

          • Anonymous

            I presume you say judges because the rest isn’t actually remotely factual except the moving the embassy thing? And you know that people with actual facts, and not just Trump ‘truthiness’ type facts will call you out on it and you won’t have a leg to stand on?

          • LaurenB

            Why is moving the embassy to Jerusalem so important to you that it overwhelms complete mishandling of Covid?

          • Anon

            “Re: sex trafficking — hi, QAnon.”

            I know, right? I feel so sorry for the white women who have been duped into thinking that’s a real, pervasive, serious issue by a person on 8chan who was actively trolling them. It’s the Satanic Panic of the 80s, spiffied up for a new age. And all the QAnon supporters who are “sAvInG the cHiLdRen” are going to be so embarrassed that they got sucked into all that in about five years.

          • Esquinkle

            Efforts to end sex trafficking??? I actually work in this area and that is a huge and tragic joke. Literally anti-trafficking organizations are banding together to try to show that this male-savior focus on sex trafficking is actually harmful to victims and survivors.

          • Aunt Jamesina

            “Deregulate his way through a crisis “ is an interesting wordsmithing of “doing jack sh!t”

            And yeah, Qanon is not welcome here. Call your parents to come pick you up, you’re in a cult

          • LaurenB

            Maybe instead of human trafficking, he could worry about Covid? Instead of mocking and dismissing Fauci/Birx/masks/distancing?

          • LaurenB

            “Operation Warp Speed
            Getting together with pharma, businesses, governors at the beginning of the pandemic”

            You are delusional. I see updates from the pharma/medical community every night – including Fauci. DJT undercut governors, let the pandemic rise when it was affecting NY/blue states and only swing into action when it started to affect the southeast, exhorted people to “liberate” their states when their governors were making hard but correct choices, played games with PPE, and ignored/mocked mask wearing at every opportunity. The pharma companies have had to repeatedly push back and say they will release vaccines in accordance with proper testing and vetting, not to appease T’s re-election schedule desires. How can you actually type what you did with a straight face? I don’t expect you to respond, frankly.

        • Sloan Sabbith

          Daveed Diggs’ (from Hamilton) new song pretty much sums it up. Chapter 319. Worth a full listen. But his interjection? Yep.

      • LaurenB

        We are moving to FL in January (this was planned pre-pandemic). How am I going to possibly live there knowing how many people support him? Also … I would like some real advice on how to handle my feelings towards T-voting relatives. This includes my father and my husband’s siblings, all of whom are Florida residents. (My mother and my FIL voted B and would never vote T; my MIL is deceased but woukd have voted B without a doubt.) I don’t know how I’ll be able to be warm and friendly.

        • FLanon

          Where are you moving to? If to the Tampa Bay area, especially Hillsborough county, or Miami, Jacksonville, etc., you will find yourself in a blue bubble. Horse country, farmlands and Disney turn Florida red.

          • FLanon

            The map of Florida counties is actually pretty interesting – Counties including Duval (Jacksonville), Hillsborough (Tampa), Pinellas (St. Petersburg), Orange (Orlando), Osceola (also Orlando), Palm Beach, Broward, Miami-Dade (all effectively Miami), Alachua (University of Florida), Leon and Gadsden (both Tallahasse/Florida State University) all went to Biden. Everything else went to Trump. There were no landslides, but it is certainly easier to find left-leaning circles in the population centers of Florida

        • Anon

          Not sure what you mean. You display grace and kindness and treat them how you would want to be treated?

        • Anonymous

          Accept that life is humbling you by placing you in the midst of this “elite” group of yours, which we’ve heard so much about. Obviously you have some thinking to do. Reflect on all the people you’ve been unkind to because they’re associated with a “lesser”group here & elsewhere. Reflect on what brought you into your Florida crowd & what keeps you there.

        • Seventh. Sister

          I’ve been the “crazy lefty” in my family since at least the second Bill Clinton administration. To be frank, alcohol helps, and so does assiduously not “talking politics” with them, even if they are absolutely spoiling for a fight. I can say the weather is nice and my mom will bring up how global warming is a hoax, so I have to be really firm and direct. And I think less of them for some of their views.

    • Anon

      I’m so grateful for this little support group. I can’t put into words how I feel and it is great to have others that understand. I’m not giving up hope but I won’t be surprised either way. I’m also so freaking concerned about the pandemic. This is going to turn into survival of the fittest and I’m f’d.

    • Reality check

      I will preface this by saying I voted for Biden. However, the people on this board need a reality check and so does the Democratic party. The Democratic party has to stop being the party of taking away things that people already have or they will continue to have these tough races.

      Most people that I know view the Democrats as the ones who will take their guns, their money (via higher taxes), and their public safety. I’m not saying it’s true, but that is how they are viewed. Any time there is a threat of something being taken away that you already have, you are going to struggle.

      Democrats have to win back the rural American voter, and to do that they are going to have to focus on real things that effect a rural citizen. And guess what- coronavirus isn’t really effecting my rural area. I can still go completely about my normal business without any human interaction since I live in the middle of nowhere.

      • LaurenB

        I’m so tired of having to kowtow to rural voters, who are consistently uneducated and believe in falsehoods (like Obama birther nonsense). Especially when they are sucking on the teat of the productive blue states. They are the worst parts of America and a global embarrassment. There’s a reason the smart ones run from rural America to the cities when they are able to. Even what you all have described on here about your own nosy small-town neighbors gossiping about your birth control is awful.

        • Anonymous

          I’m getting tired too. It’s one thing to vote in line with your local issues and to feel disconnected from coastal city elites. It’s another to actively believe and promote outrageous, absurd lies.

          • anon

            And those beliefs carry such outsized influence because of the electoral college.

        • Z

          Wow. That is massively condescending. Here’s an idea. Stop insulting the very people who you are trying to get their votes. Rural America isn’t perfect, but neither are your urban utopias. This type of attitude is not going to help.

          • Anon

            Sorry not sorry. I agree 100% with everything LaurenB said. I grew up in a rural area, as did my husband. You know who ended up staying in those rural areas where we grew up? The loser kids who didn’t pay attention in school and therefore had no way to get into college anywhere but the local JuCo or community college. They now work at gas stations, or a tire centers, or hair salons and are die-hard conservatives who are relentlessly vocal about how marginalized they are as rural voters. When the plain truth is, they were either too scared or too mediocre to have any other options besides doing what they’re doing. I’m not sorry I got good grades in high school and got the hell out of there. I’m sorry for them, that their lives are so small and limited and they can’t seem to take responsibility for their own choices and realize they are living a lesser life that is lesser by their own design. That is not my fault or my problem and they need to stop trying to make it everyone else’s problem. It is not the responsibility of people who learned skills and got good jobs through hard work to prop up the losers who want a living given to them for free, just because they’re white and American. Things don’t work that way any more.

          • LaurenB

            Who said urban areas were utopias? But here’s a fun little game. Find the best universities and colleges in this country. Map them. By golly, they are almost all in blue states! How did that happen? Scratching head. Now find the joke schools that are all about football and no academics. Why golly, they are almost all in red states? Who would have thunk.

          • Abby

            +1000. Calling half the population uneducated, “worst part”, and “a global embarrassment” is no way to get them to vote for your candidate.

          • Anon

            Oh, whatever. They’re f-ing racists who voted for a racist and they deserve to be called out and scorned and told that they’re white supremacist gutter trash.

          • Anoni

            There was a conversation here just a few days ago about the challenges kids in rural areas face to go to college, and the comments were kind and empathetic. But now they are are all “loser kids who didn’t pay attention in school”? Your privilege is showing.

          • Anon

            I do not understand the logic of some on this board – I swear half the people here if given the option between (1) a guaranteed Biden win but they can never call someone racist and (2) a guaranteed Trump win but they get to call people racists would chose 2 every time. You don’t win voters over by insulting them but whatever. We didn’t learn in 2016 and I guess we didn’t learn in 2020. Hope all that name calling keeps you warm at night when we don’t have an election in 2024.

          • Reality check

            This is just the perfect example of why Democrats are in tight races and why Trump was elected in the first place. Democrats come off as entitled elites and that is saying something when the most entitled elite of all is on the other side.

            Hair stylists and those that work at tire centers and gas stations are important too. Democrats needs to relate to them, not look down on them. Wow.

          • Anon

            Why bother trying to relate to people who have shown themselves again and again to be too stupid to make good choices? I refuse to try to “relate” to people who consider voting for a literal fascist. I bet you would tell people in Germany in the 30s to just “relate to the poor sweet Hitler voters, they matter too!” No, they’re fascists voting for a racist fascist. Just like Trump voters.

          • Anon

            Learn a little history, Hitler took advantage of people who were feeling down on their luck by presenting a false enemy and presenting himself as the savior. Actually, yeah, if others had attempted to reach out to those people and understand them, maybe they wouldn’t have voted for Hitler. What’s your solution? Ignore the millions of “facists” and hope they go away before the next election?

          • LaurenB

            But if you think Covid is a hoax and masks don’t work and going to an unmasked rally is a wise thing in the midst of a pandemic and that Biden is “socialist” when half of Europe would laugh at you, you ARE stupid. Why should I lie and call these people smart? Is this like every kid gets a trophy? I’m not trying to convince them to vote for B at this juncture; they already voted.

        • Nah

          This is so condescending, LaurenB. This is exactly why she’s saying people here need a reality check. Have you ever even spent any time in a rural community? Have you ever had personal conversations, in good faith, with rural voters? And please explain how the breadbasket of America is “sucking on the teat of the productive blue states.” That is not true of the farmers and ranchers that work from sunup to sundown providing food for our nation. The “smart ones” may go to the city for a time, yes. And a very good number of them come back home to contribute to the rural communities who made them into the people they are proud to be.

          This condescension is exactly why Democrats are surprised today that so many voted red. You’re not listening to them. When you get to Florida, try to give people the benefit of the doubt that even though different things are important to them than the things that are important to you, that may be because they have different life experiences. You’re not better than anyone else.

          • Anon

            I think it’s a pretty objective call that people who voted for Biden are clearly better people than people who voted for Trump after seeing him for four years.

          • Anon

            If I have an education, money in the bank, positive net worth, and I don’t believe people are inferior to me because of their gender, sexual orientation or the color of their skin? I am absolutely better than people who are not like that. Maybe you need to try harder to be better.

          • Anonymous

            The blue states are the largest economic engines in the country. We pay far more in taxes than we get back, so are paying for most of the benefits the red states have including the farm subsidies and for the retirement of the red state citizens.

          • LaurenB

            I hope this is not new news to you that blue states subsidize the red ones. I am not “better than anyone else” but I sure as heck am better than racists, people who ignore science, and people who undermine democracy.

          • Anon

            You’re better than people because you have more education and money?!? You are so gross.

          • anon

            I think it’s a little ironic that a favorite saying of liberals is “I don’t know how to teach you to care about other people” and here we have a handful of people who are talking about how they DGAF about the people from rural areas, and they shouldn’t have to because they have more money & are “better educated”. You may not look down on others because of their gender, sexual orientation, or skin color, but if they disagree with you, you think they’re stupid.

        • Anonymous

          Really? I am so tired of having to listen to condescending nonsense from voters who live in pits like Portland and San Francisco. Especially when they are sucking on the teat of illegal immigration and technology companies that treat people like product. They are the worst part of America and a global embarrassment. There are reasons why smart ones run from or refuse to run to cities that are run by liberal democrats and have people doing drugs and defecating on the street, harboring illegal aliens with criminal offenses, and nosily telling the rest of us how we should think or feel or else we are all raaaaacist.

        • Anob

          You … want tips on how to be friendly towards the Trump supporters who are your friends & family, but have so much unchecked vitriol for the rural voter. That rural voter doesn’t have all the privilege that your self-proclaimed “East Coast elitism” affords. Okay? That’s how they can make poor decisions, if they are indeed making poor decisions. What excuse do your friends and family have that warrant your kindness? What excuse do you have for being so disgustingly classist all over this board all the time? I genuinely do not understand why you keep doing this. Please educate yourself somehow. Listen to the pushback you get here. Do some research on rural life, poverty, etc. And ask yourself why your elite group has the same problem as the rural people your complaining about here. You just don’t know these “rural” people (for lack of a better term) and your classist views are influencing your hate. There is no reason to vilify everyone but the “elite” group you think you belong to. You are the problem. Do you think it’s okay to be rascist? Sexist? Classist? Seriously, why?

        • Seventh. Sister

          As a person in a blue state who has to pay more in taxes thanks to the recent tax “cuts,” I’d be delighted to stop subsidizing a red state or seven.

      • anon

        Two can play this game. The republican party is trying to take away my health care, the right to choose, fair and free elections and so much more.

        • Reality check

          Most rural poor people don’t have health care in the first place so this is not a loss for them.

          • Anon

            My family who don’t have healthcare also don’t entirely value it (some of them are anti-vaccination; others are into alternative medicine, like homeopathy and essential oils). They’re not alone.

      • Anon

        The rural American voter already has a disproportionate share of the vote. My vote in California is worth much less than my crazy uncle’s vote in South Dakota. Rural Americans are generally net takers and urban Americans are generally net givers tax-wise (ie blue states subsidize red states). Rural Americans are already PLENTY pandered to.

        • Reality check

          Clearly they aren’t pandered to by the Democratic party and judging from above that won’t change.

          • Anon

            Right, because we don’t want to pander to them. Get it through your thick skull: successful people don’t want to associate in any way with unsuccessful troglodytes. I don’t want anything to do with some toothless mouth-breathing redneck from bumf— wherever. I don’t feel any need to “reach out” to them. They obviously don’t get it re: racism, sexism etc. and they don’t want to. I would rather, at this point, see the USA split into multiple small countries than continue pandering to ignorant racists. Like if California, Washington and Oregon split off into their own nation? I am 100% moving there. F these redneck jerks. Enough already. I want to move to someplace where I am surrounded with my “own kind” – smart people who realize we are living in the 21st century.

      • anon

        How can you tell us that we need a reality check when you’re also saying we must indulge rural American’s unhinged fantasies? These people insist on believing things that are not true and somehow, not only is that permissible, but it’s our job to cater to their unreality? And that will be effective? Nope, not convinced.

        • Reality check

          I didn’t say that. I said they need to focus on things that effect rural voters and learn how to relate to rural voters.

          • Clarke

            Reality check, thank you for speaking up. I’m not saying all red voters are perfect, but there are plenty of people who voted for Trump b/c Biden didn’t make his case to them. And the lashing out at the reasonable voters (not the QAnon crazies) does nothing to turn the country blue again. Stomping one’s feet and calling the other side names and saying they can’t be reasoned with gets us nowhere.

        • Reality check

          But ok- keep doing what you are doing over there. I voted Democrat, but I cringe at how the Democratic party tries to appeal to the average person. I find it appalling and off-putting and elitist. LaurenB is the prime example- thinking she is better than me because her school sucked at football and was in a blue state.

          • Anon

            100% agree. Replace “rural” with a couple other choice adjectives and you really get a picture of how hateful and despicable her positions are.

            Combine that with the poster above who said her education and net worth make her “absolutely better than people who are not like that” and wow. The reek of privilege is strong today.

            Signed, red state Biden voter who’s disappointed but not filled with hate.

          • anon

            I voted for Biden but in a super-blue state, never going red even if hell froze over. Agree with Reality Check “I voted Democrat, but I cringe at how the Democratic party tries to appeal to the average person. I find it appalling and off-putting and elitist. LaurenB is the prime example- thinking she is better than me.” If I was in a swing state, I would have voted for Trump because I don’t want the House, Senate and Presidency all in Democratic/Socialist hands.

        • Anon

          I will also say that it seems quite obvious that this race wouldn’t even be close if the Republican candidate was more palatable than Trump. What are Democrats planning on doing when the Republican candidate isn’t Trump? Things will only be less winnable for them with a better candidate on the other side.

          • Anon

            Unclear. Romney and McCain were both reasonable Republicans who lost decisively. Trump has a fanatical cult-like base. I think there’s definitely an argument that a “boring” R like Marco Rubio would not have inspired this level of turnout on the R side.

      • LaurenB

        “Most people that I know view the Democrats as the ones who will take their guns, their money (via higher taxes)”

        Even though DJT was the one who said he’d take their guns and sort it out later. This is why these people are not very bright.

      • Anonanonanon

        I will push back just a little based only on my anecdata. My family and I are from the Florida Panhandle which is reliably red. COVID has hit hard there, there’s just still a lot of denial about it. We know people who legitimately think COVID is a liberal plot and it will go away after the election. My mother-in-law in this rural area died three weeks ago from COVID. I know several others. When you bring this up to the people who think it’s a hoax, they say sorry but don’t change their beliefs or their behavior. Unless they literally have their own direct family member die from it, they don’t care. I don’t know how to deal with that. I appreciate other rural areas aren’t as impacted and have other issues on their minds. This is just my own frustrating anecdata from a corner of rural America with which I am familiar.

        • Anon

          I hear what you are saying, but that proves the point in another way. If they have massive amounts COVID and don’t think it’s an issue for them, then it’s not something they care about and thus they need to be related to in another way.

          You deal with it by asking them what issues they care about instead of trying to make the election about COVID.

          • Anonymous

            At what point is it acceptable to not pander to the lowest common denominator though? There are literally bodies! How come it’s the lefts job to relate to people with so little humanity they are okay with their fellow humans dying? You must acknowledge how insane that is

    • cbackson

      Honestly, while I am very anxious about the national results I am letting myself be cheered by the fact that GA is in play. Having grown up here, for GA to even possibly go blue reflects a huge level of change in my state. And also, the election went incredibly smoothly here (vs the primary) so I also feel like the GA outcome will be fairly decided. My state elections board completely f’d up the primary and they did a fantastic job with the general. I honestly thought it would be a sh*tshow. We may lose nationally (although I don’t think we well), but it is clear now that the old red GA is gone and that is really important, particularly w/r/t state-level issues.

      • Anon

        That is a good perspective, cbackson! I always value your thoughtful commentary.

        • cbackson

          I just saw that they expect 60,000 Fulton County votes to be counted by 9 PM tonight. Currently Trump leads in GA by 80,000 votes. Not all of those 60,000 will go for Biden but a very large number of them will. There are also 40,000 outstanding ballots from Dekalb, which will also break heavily for Biden. It is going to be incredibly close (there are 20,000 votes outstanding from a heavily R county) but I am hopeful.

      • cbackson

        Also, several states have decriminalized certain recreational drug use, which is super important given that the war on drugs has massively hurt low-income and POC communities in the US for decades!

        And Rep. Lucy McBath defeated the awful Karen Handel yet again!

        • AnonATL

          Woohoo from McBath’s district! So happy she held off Karen handel.
          And also I grew up in Georgia, and it is so weird having my vote actually matter for once.

    • Anon

      Im on the west coast, so I was up late enough to see Trump’s address to the shoulder to shoulder unmasked crowd at the White House.

      It was jarring.

      It really was. I’m 55 and have never seen / never expected to see the president of the United States engage in blatant falsehoods and conspiracy theories to this degree.

  3. Best layering pieces if you're just standing around outside?

    I never felt cold as a kid, maybe because I was running around playing or doing a sport or at least walking.

    Now, to see people, I stand around outside. Never close enough to a fire pit or pole heater (which are on backorder everywhere now).

    Laying for pieces I have for indoors isn’t working. What do I need, ideally, for near-freezing temps to be comfy in? I have some fleece-lined pants from Eddie Bauer that look promising, but yesterday on my top I wore the following only to need to go on a brisk walk up and down my friend’s sidewalk to keep warm: cotton/poly tee, uniqlo fleece, Columbia fleece vest, down ski jacket. Too many bad layers? I have a faux fur lined trapper hat and good gloves. Maybe people aren’t designed to be outside in cold weather if they are just hanging out (and yet, from watching The Wire, it seems that the Barksdale crew does this in Baltimore, which IIRC has a very damp cold weather that probably feels quite cold).

    I have invested in some value-packs of hand warmers from a camping store.

    • Anonymous

      I can’t tell if any of them are windbreaker pieces. I do a non-cotton base layer (wool, silk), an insulating layer like fleece, and then a wind/waterproof layer on top.

    • anon

      I’m like this, a little bit. If I’m moving around, I am generally very comfortable outdoors even when it’s cold. But standing around? I will be cold no matter what. I’d suggest: moving around as much as possible and having a warm beverage with you at all times. And, if my feet/hands are cold, the rest of me is miserable no matter what I’m wearing. So do what you need to do to keep the extremities toasty!

    • Flats Only

      I find the following top combo very warm: Uniqlo HeatTech Extra Warm long sleeve tee (a little fuzzy inside vs. the regular HeatTech tee, but still thin), close fitting Uniqlo Merino turtleneck sweater, LL Bean Sweater Fleece Jacket (fuzzy on the inside). Fleece Hat. The trick seems to be having something slightly fuzzy next the skin to trap heat, the wool layer, and then a fuzzy-on-the-inside fleece. Fleeces that are smooth on the inside and fuzzy on the outside are not as warm. The turtleneck and a fleece hat that covers my ears makes a huge difference in how warm I am. For thermal bottoms, merino wool is superior to synthetics.

    • Thanks, it has pockets!

      Good boots are clutch, you lose a lot of heat through your feet and those feet are gonna be standing on some cold ground! This is definitely the year to get high quality cold-weather boots. Last winter I splurged on some commuter boots from LL Bean, this year I might treat myself to some UGGs, since my Target knockoffs fell apart last year. Sounds like you’ve got the hat and gloves, but don’t underestimate the difference a scarf makes!

        • Anon

          Working in my home office at the moment, and my feet are freezing although the temp is fine. For some of us, all the wool/cashmere/uggs in the world cannot get us to warm. And this is after the global warming that is menopause (at least for me).

    • ElisaR

      i don’t have an answer but i like that you use the wire as a real life example :)

      i do find the hat piece to be key… but it sounds like you have that covered.

    • Curious

      I know this isn’t clothing, but drink warm beverages, too. Having the ability to keep hot tea or cider warm (yeti? Hydro flask?) helps.

    • NYCer

      I find that longer jackets (like almost knee length) keep me warmer than hip length or just below. I have a Soia & Kyo parka that is amazingly warm.

    • Anonymous

      From a winter heavy place:

      You need really good shoes for standing still. For near freezing you need proper winter boots for standing still. Thick-soled insulated winter boots. They need to be big enough for extra inner soles (wool with the foil underneath is great) as well as two pairs of socks (with wool, no cotton) and still be able to wriggle your toes.

      You need a warm AND windproof hat, or warm hat with windproof hood on you jacket. Can be boosted with buff or balaclava.

      You need a really warm scarf, uniqlo thin cashmere is great. Merino buff with extra shawl is great. Layer so your neck is warm, and your shoulders.

      You need really warm mittens. Your outer hand layer should be mittens, not gloves. Windproof snow mittens, or something like real shearling. On the inside, merino glove liner gloves are great.

      Your outer layer jacket must be windproof and warm, preferably water repellant. Hood is good, inner pocket for your phone (preserves battery if you keep it warm), length at least thigh long.
      Minimum two long-armed layers underneath, merino Is great for inner, preferably high neck. Don’t have the layers too tight. Tuck your base layer in your long johns. Can be boosted with gilet, armwarmers, neckwarmers, merino bra.

      Pants: wool/silk long johns, windproof outer layer is the minimum. Can be boosted with extra legwarmers, extra wool thigh long underwear, or puffer skirt on the outside.

      Ditch metal jewellery for the outside, get the little hand warmer thingys, and consider smart phone friendly inner gloves if you think you need to do something with your phone outside.

    • Anon

      Without knowing how cold it is where you are, this is what i wore for an outdoors -40 degree new years eve a few years ago in northern Canada, watching fireworks on a frozen lake.

      -really good boots, waterproof, with underfoot insulation and liners. Something like traditional Sorels or snowmobile boots.
      -thermal underwear top and bottom, top tucked in. Wool, silk or synthetic.
      -1st pair of socks goes under your long underwear, 2nd pair of socks (ideally wool) goes over top.
      -pants, ideally flannel-lined or wool
      -long-sleeved top, ideally with a high neck
      -sweater, ideally wool
      -ski pants
      -parka, at least knee-length with a hood
      -scarf or neckwarmer, touque or balaclava, mittens

    • Coach Laura

      Others have given good ideas.

      They have feet packs like the handwarmer packs. Get boots with extra room, wool or warm socks and toe warmers. Gloves with the handwarmer packs in your pockets or gloves with mittens with handwarmer packs in the mitten fingers also works.

      I agree about scarves. I wear a cashmere scarf if I’m not doing active things like hiking or skiing.

    • Trixie

      No cotton or poly as the base layer–buy merino wool or some true outdoors long underwear top and bottom, and add wool socks. Next up, a fleece jacket or pullover, and outdoor pants–I like a pair from llbean that is fleeced on the inside. Then an outer layer, like a puffer coat, and a hat, and gloves, and a scarf. For outdoor sit-around-the fire pit parties, I bring a sleeping bag, as I can wrap myself in it or climb into it. I run cold, and this works for me!

  4. Anonymous

    Same. I am so tired. And a little sick about it. Any ideas to help me focus on work appreciated.

  5. Anon

    Not that it matters at all, but I want to say that’s a midi rather than a maxi. It’s a great pick, I really like it! I don’t even mind the socks and sandals.

    • AnonATL

      They had me up till the turtleneck. All the non-turtleneck options seem to be either bodycon or minis.
      I’m just not a turtleneck gal.

      • Anon

        I think it could be excusable with nice socks meant to be seen. These look like athletic socks. There are so many beautiful options, I don’t understand this “I give up” styling.

    • Anonymous

      The item description says the hem hits at the ankle, so I’d say the model is either quite tall or the dress has been pulled up to make it look like it’s midi length.

      • Anonymous

        I don’t think we’re looking at the same dress. It fits perfectly. It’s a dolman sleeved top.

  7. Kate

    A friend of mine set me up on a blind date with his neighbor – we agreed to go out tonight as either celebration or to keep our minds off things. I don’t know much about him, other than his neighborhood and he has a dog, and from a small handful of texts, that we probably voted the same way.

    I haven’t been on a blind date in so long that I honestly can’t remember what they’re like. I’ve never online dated. Recent posts here were full of horror stories! I usually am good meeting new people but at this point, I’m not sure what to talk about rather than politics (which we agreed to try to avoid!). I also have heard first dates can be interrogation-like.

    If you have any blind dinner date advice on this insanely stressful day… I’m all ears!

    • Anonymous

      Talk about what you like to do for fun – hobbies etc. Talk about favorite places you have visited, sports teams you cheer for, great concerts you have been to, music you like, favourite books you have read etc.

      • Kate

        This is great and probably obvious advice – Thank you! I think my 2020 and election addled brain honestly would have been stuck.

        • Anonymous

          Fingers crossed that it goes well. My college BFF met her adorable hubby via a set up from her neighbor (neighbor’s nephew) so I have a soft spot for blind dates involving neighbors.

    • Anon

      Oh, that might be fun! I would view this as a chance to get out of the house and maybe make a new friend. Before I met my husband, I went on a million blind dates and always kept expectations low. I always told myself it was good to get out of my normal routine and take a chance on things. In terms of dinner conversation, I would ask questions to get to know him – where did he grow up, what were some of his favorite vacations, what are his hobbies, what was he like as a kid, does he play any sports, etc. Hopefully he will reciprocate and you can share some things about yourself. If there is anything fun in your town that you can do together like visit a park or take a hike or bike ride, you can ask him if he has done that recently and if things are going well, that might be an easy way to plan for the next date if you are so inclined. Anyway, good luck and report back! :)

    • Anonie

      I started the bad date thread, but I want to write and say that GOOD DATES are absolutely a thing, too. I hope yours is lovely!

      If it helps to relieve some pressure, try to go into it as if you were walking into a first hangout with a potential new platonic friend.

      If you DO end up enjoying his company, be sure to let him know in words (not text) at the end of the night :) When I was single, I did an impromptu (and entirely un-scientific haha) “study” of my own dates and found that I was drastically more likely to get asked on a second date if I took the simple step of telling my date, “I had such a nice time tonight” as we said goodbye. People like to be liked.

      Good luck!!!!

      • Ellen

        You should also be more assertive and not just wait for him to ask you out again if you like him. Most men are afraid of us, and do not assert themselves. While most are schlubby, if you do click with him, call him up and tell him you want to do something again with him, and suggest what that might be so that he can plan accordingly. Remember, at this stage, you are NOT romantic, and you want to be freinds first, especially b/c of Corona, before you start sharing spit with him. I read today in the NY Times that it is more dangerous for us to kiss a man b/c of Corona then it is to have non-face-to-face P in V s-x! Who would think we would be told to do that before even kissing a man! Not me!

    • Anon

      How nice that someone set you up! There are definitely horror stories out there, but I think it’s important to tell yourself that most dates are perfectly fine, even if your date doesn’t turn out to be your person. And if he is a horror story, well, that has nothing to do with you – you don’t even know the guy!

      Dating during such stressful times is not the easiest – things don’t feel light and fun the way I’d like them to, at least – but I’ve found that the pandemic and election are actually making it easier for me to quickly identify who shares my values, who handles adversity well, who has good coping skills, etc. I’m trying to see this as a silver lining :) Questions like “how have you been staying busy lately?” “who have you been keeping in touch with?” and “have you picked up any new hobbies/skills during quarantine?” have led to some good conversations about these things.

    • Anon

      Honest question – how do you go on dates now? Do you meet outside? Do you wear masks and stay 6 feet apart? How does it work? Genuine questions.

      • Ellen

        Yes, you do. Until you really know the guy, he is like every other stranger. You do not open up your mouth or any other orifice of yours to him for quite some time, and certainly not until you are very comfortable in his history, and that he tests negative for STDs and Covid 19.

      • Anonymous

        I meet people for drinks outside. If it goes well, I’ll make out. It’s a risk I’m willing to take.

        • Anon

          I feel like the whole pandemic thing must push the awkward conversations forward. Like, it used to be before we had sex we were supposed to bring up precautions and HIV status and all of that. Now that we’re in the pandemic I guess we have to ask about isolation and negative covid tests before kissing.

  8. anon

    I supervise a small team that’s been working their tails off lately. They also happen to be ardent Biden supporters. (Trust me, on this, I am certain. We work in a field in which it is pretty … normal to know people’s political leanings.) Would it be out of line to email them, acknowledge that today might be hard, do what you can to stay on top of the essentials, but take it easy? Or is that overstepping and condescending?

    • Anon

      I think that would be nice. Management at my company is doing the same and it is greatly appreciated. Just acknowledging the situation does a lot for people.

    • Anon

      I would give explicit permission to take the afternoon off, especially if you know people were out volunteering (a lot were, including me, at my job). I don’t need a vague email platitude but I do want time off.

    • Nylongirl

      I think it would be nice. People could use a bit of slack & kindness today.

    • Anonie

      I would welcome an email like that from a supervisor if we are as close as you are describing! Keep it vague and don’t specifically name candidates, on the off chance that the email gets forwarded.

    • Anonymous

      Technically Biden is winning. I think they’ll be okay. But also, do you want to give them permission to slack off today, tomorrow, possibly Friday when we get results, the following days if results are unfavorable, and so on.

    • Cb

      I think that would be really kind. My boss and colleagues all checked in on me today (sole American in an international team) and it was very much appreciated.

    • anon a mouse

      I think it would be welcome. My boss essentially said that we would all be distracted today and while I’m not taking it as permission to completely check out, it helps knowing that she understands that I might not be 100%.

    • Anonymous

      I’d find it over reaching and weird. If you are worried that “today might be hard” then give them a break by managing well and leading. Treat people like adults. Difficult, concerning, confusing things happen all the time and people can, must, and will deal with it. I’d roll my eyes and delete it as something that made you feel good and did nothing for me.

      • NYCer

        I agree, it would definitely rub me the wrong way. I am close with my boss, but I would find it super weird if he sent me an email like that.

        • Curious

          The working I used was something like “I want to acknowledge today might be stressful. Please prioritize your well being and let me know if you’d prefer to push anything back.” It’s a little less directive than “take it easy” and I think acknowledges that there’s stress regardless of party right now. The CDC says that suicidality is 10x what it was pre-COVID. It’s okay to show empathy.

    • Anon

      I think that would be nice. Even better if you can encourage them to take some time off or tell them not to worry about being less-than-productive today.

      • Curious

        This may be a generational thing. My team is mostly in their mid to late 20s.

    • Cat

      I’d appreciate it. On my calls today, people are kicking things off with “so if anyone can even pay attention today, comments on X?”

    • cbackson

      Personally, I would find it off-putting. But I’m finding a lot of people’s responses today to be somewhat overwrought; the election isn’t over (for one thing) and I guess I’m shocked that people are shocked that this is close. Nothing about these results is telling me things about the American people that I didn’t already know.

        • Anon

          Yeah, I was fully expecting this but it’s still sad. Sadness aside, it’s also hard to function with the uncertainty because it’s so tempting to keep refreshing constantly.

      • Anon

        Yeah I’m not shocked but I am not enjoying having my negative concerns confirmed.

    • Anon

      My daughter is a college student and has a paper and a presentation due today. Last night she was upset and wondering how anyone could expect them to focus and get this done given what was going on last night. I think everyone could use a little grace today.

      Maybe without being “mothering” you could say something like “I know a lot of us were up late last night, let’s push x deliverable/meeting to later in the week.”

    • Reality check

      No, just no. The fact that some people are encouraging this is what is wrong with the Democratic party. Bubble.

        • Anon

          I’m picturing her head spinning around until it flies off while she’s yelling ‘BUBBLE BUBBLE BUUUUBBBBBBLLLLLLEEEEEE’

      • anonymous

        I … don’t think you actually understand the concept of a “liberal bubble.” It’s not just a blanket insult you can toss around.

    • Aunt Jamesina

      I think you should save this for the coming weeks (and months?). We have a long haul to go. Honestly work is the only thing taking my mind off things right now.

    • LaurenB

      I think the issue is – are you explicitly saying “Hey Biden supporters, today is rough, take it easy”? Or are you saying “Hey everybody, we know this is a rough time for everyone, take it easy”? I think the latter is appropriate but not the former. I think most people appreciate the acknowledgment that no one is “happy” about how this election is going and how divided the country is.

    • Anonymous

      I would cancel all nonessential meetings today, otherwise, I would trust my team to manage their workloads.

  9. Anon

    As a conservative female POC , I hope this is a lesson (since you all didn’t learn last time) that we are not a monolith and that you need to get out of your self-lauding bubbles. Republicans gained among majority Black, Cuban, and majority Hispanic communities. Every person of color has their own story, beliefs, experiences, and concerns that shapes our political ideology. You cannot guilt us into voting Democrat (thinking of Chelsea Handler telling Fifty to remember that he’s Black ugh). I am so sick and tired of the condescension and coddling of the left – PARTICULARLY white women. Your constant hysterics – and for what? if you think about your own life and your own community, are you really disadvantaged? – have been disgusting and mind numbing. I don’t need your white saviorism and neither do the many of us who voted against it. I know you’re all going to take your mental health days and weep, but I’m going to go on with my day and my life no matter what happens. Because I happen to come from a place where I never had this freedom and never had the opportunities I have now.

    • Anon

      How very empathetic. Nothing like kicking people when they’re down, is there?

      • Anon

        I’m a Biden supporter and I’m not feeling down. You shouldn’t be either! It seems pretty clear he’s going to win at least MI/WI/AZ which will be enough. PA would be a bonus but is not required.

    • Anon

      White women aren’t oppressed on the basis of race, but they are on the basis of sex. It’s not a good look to crow about misfortune and the erosion of rights hitting a marginalized group, even if you personally don’t care.

    • Anonymous

      I’m curious, don’t you feel you’re voting against your own self interests when you see what Republicans are actually doing to your communities? You know Trump tried to prevent you as a group from voting, right?

      • Anonymous

        I disagree — I think that Ds have taken minority communities for granted after election day and have just done enough pandering to get the needed votes. We can remember and thank Joe Biden for his help with making mass incarceration happen and Kamala Harris was right to bring up his stance on integration. And don’t even get me started on opposing charter schools — education is the only way out and when your choice is to get a sub-sub-sub par education from the school-to-prison pipeline or possibly just an “average” education at a charter school, who benefits from sticking kids with the status quo?! Not black or brown kids, that’s for sure.

        • Novanon

          Yup. Non-POCs need to stop telling POCs (and all people) what’s best for us. School choice is a great example, but there are many others. People who are trying to make it in this world don’t have the bandwidth for virtue signaling and cancel culture. For an example of the former, see any thread on this board that devolves into COVID shaming. (I predict that last sentence will start a flame war.)

          • Ellen

            Yes, I never preach on race, crime or other issues, either to others like me or those who are not like me. We are all individuals, and must vote our minds. If I were a POC, I would resent white women who just tried to score brownie points with me b/c of how they voted, or if they wore BLM tee shirts or masks. Kudos to all people who are individualsists. That is why we are in America, not some backward 3rd world country. People are people, and they are not all the same. Read this and understand this and we can all live our lives better.

        • No Face

          Some voters have been struggling with picking between two candidates that are terrible, but Black voters have largely been doing this the whole time. If we define “whole time” as when we have been allowed to vote. The Democratic Party has absolutely harmed the Black community time and time again. So has the Republican Party, just in different ways. I do not feel my interests or my community’s interest (defined in racial terms) are actually being advanced by anyone. I voted all D this time because I think Trump has no good qualities the GOP is gone off its rocker, but I am not a Democrat.

        • Anon

          You actively side-stepped her question. By and large education is a state by state issue, not national, so you still don’t make sense – vote Republican locally and Democrat nationally in this election.
          Subtext is, you are okay with disenfranchisement of your community and other issues of the Republican platform because you are unhappy with the policies of the other party? I’m sorry that doesn’t make sense to me – you are voting to be actively hurt instead of not actively helped.

          • Clarke

            Education can absolutely be a national issue! See, for example, No Child Left Behind, the school voucher/choice movement, and any policy position taken by that federal department that handles education.

        • Anonymous

          Are you not familiar with the concept of gerrymandering? Or how they are actively reduced the number of voting sites in predominately non-white areas. Trump has had his minions push hard for these issues throughout the last 4 years. If you cannot see the difference between how elections are run in the US and how they are run in other western democracies, I don’t know what to tell you.

          • Anonymous

            Gerrymandering is done by both parties in the states. I live in a district made just to put a POC D in the house. Its shape is totally bizarre and it frequently winds up being a SCT case, then it gets redrawn.

        • Anon

          Lololol And before you say this why Dems have a problem, I’m not a Democratic Party operative, and this is an anonymous forum so I can laugh when you ask willfully ignorant questions all I want.

      • Anon

        Edited to add: And privileged white women are not a monolith either. Seems kind of foolish to alienate your allies.

          • Carp

            Love at how these privileged white women (PWW) telling you to “open your mind” b/c the PWW are allies. Just reeks of condescension. What are you gonna do next, slap her?

      • Anon

        OP here: I don’t mean to be hateful, and I apologize for coming across that way. I can appreciate that this is a jarring result for many of you, but what I’m trying to get at is that it shouldn’t be jarring. You shouldn’t be so assured of your hold on a certain type of voter. You have made caricatures of us that are divorced from complex reality. I also don’t think you would tell someone gloating about Biden that they’re being hateful and unempathetic. These adjectives seem to be solely ascribed to anyone who does not agree with the left, and non-white women who do not agree (and there are many, many of us) usually the bear the brunt of this. After all, we must be completely uneducated and willing to abdicate our agency if we decide to eschew partisan talking points /group think and think independently.

        I’m frustrated and angry and want to be allowed to express it (although my experience, without fail, being muzzled by most liberal elite white women). I really appreciate all the thoughtful, respectful, and introspective comments though. And for my part, I have committed to no longer remaining silent and intimidated by the woke/liberal elite/cancel culture crowd. I am a conservative, loud and proud. I have a rich heritage and a bright future, and I’m going to work towards amplifying voices like mine.

        • Anon

          “I have a rich heritage and a bright future, and I’m going to work towards amplifying voices like mine.”

          How interesting that this is the choice you’ve made; this is what you’re going to do with your one wild and precious life. Good luck with that, I guess.

        • Anonymous

          I’m sympathetic to being muzzled and know what you are talking about, although I don’t agree with your politics. I’m curious what your viewpoints are on law and order. That issue is one where I’ve seen some Dems assume that all POC want to abolish the police, but that’s not what I’m seeing in surveys of voters/locals in different areas.

        • Anonymous

          I feel sorry for you that you’re proud of voting for someone who openly hates women and thinks they should stay home while he gets their husbands back to work. You can try and amplify your voice all you want but Trump et al are not interested in hearing from you. How many women POC are in his cabinet? How many women POC has he nominated for appointment to the bench in the last 4 years?

          • Anonie

            As a POC:

            – I get to tell her no because the man literally refused to condemn white supremacy on stage.
            – I get to say no because the man said “there were good people on both sides” in the aftermath of black American Christians being shot up and killed while praying.
            – I get to say no because of Trump’s response to the Central Park Five.
            – I get to say no because the unqualified son-in-law he appointed to a position in the White House said last week that black people don’t want to be successful.
            – I get to say no because of the education gap between whites and minorities in this country.

            As a woman:

            – I get to say no because the man said he grabs women by the p****.
            – I get to say no because the man has cheated on every woman to whom he has married and impregnated.
            – I get to say no because this man has said he would like to date his daughter because she has a good body.
            – I get to say no because of the pay gap between white men and women in this country.

            Want me to keep going? I can.

          • Anonymous

            Anonie, I respect your views and agree with them, but it’s obvious that a lot of people disagree and it’s becoming more and more clear that we need to find other ways to connect to conservative voters of color. What we’re doing now isn’t working as well as we thought.

        • Anon

          A real question for you.
          1) Where do you fall on actions by the current administration that are pretty objectively anti-constitutional or against current laws, but that are not currently punished because of the admin. in control. (Ex. calls to not count votes, money laundering, refusing to operate by established Senate rules, espionage, etc.)
          2) Where do you fall on the police issue? Not in response to the “police are bad” message but in response to the pretty obvious excessive use of force in a lot of cases. I think a lot of POC have fallen on the Dem side (I know I have) because instead of a “we don’t know exactly what happened, but let’s try to address this” response, all I’ve seen from Rep is basically a message of “support the police no matter what” and “they deserved to die”. How do you reconcile that messaging with your own life?
          e) “Rich heritage” is kind of code for southern pride with a side confederate flag, so you kind of sound like a troll, or maybe an ethnically white person (ex. Italian, Roma, Cuban, White latino, etc.). Can you confirm your background? It’d put a lot of context on your responses.

        • Anon from 9:36

          Thank you for your response, I do appreciate it. You and I would disagree on most political topics I think, but I appreciate that you took the time to respond. I do want to add that I would call out seemingly hateful words no matter what the background or political context. I think hatefulness is what is bothering me the most, out of all the things that do bother me (or downright scare me) right now about our country and the people in it. As a Democrat, I could not bring myself to support Bernie Sanders in the primary although I agree with him on a lot of points, and the reason being that he seemed like yet another angry white man, just like Trump. This country cannot succeed with its populace so severely divided, with so many people having hatred for the “other”, and with increasingly successful inroads being made into the very structure and functioning of a democratic (that’s “little d” democratic, not the party) form of government. I wish I knew you and we could sit down and talk. I feel like I would find it stressful, challenging, insightful, and ultimately productive, and would wish to have the same effect on you!

          • Anon

            It always sounds classist to me when people say that Bernie Sanders seemed like any other angry white man. Plenty of people who aren’t white and who aren’t men are angry about the same things, insofar as he even expressed anger and not just a kind of NY accent (often I only heard the latter).

          • Anon

            The criticism of Bernie for being “angry” definitely has anti-Semitic undertones. And I say that as someone who dislikes Bernie and voted against him in primaries whenever I could.

          • Anon

            Oh please, calling someone angry – whose identity is being angry, so be would agree with the descriptor- is in no way anti-Semitic.

          • Anon

            He’s not angry, he’s loud and has a strong Jewish accent (people in the Midwest may call it a “New York accent” but there are different kinds of NY accents and his is very distinctly Jewish). As a white person I would never purport to tell a Black person that criticism of a Black candidate doesn’t have racial undertones; please don’t tell me criticism of a Jewish candidate that has obvious anti-Semitic undertones isn’t anti-Semitic.

            Again, I don’t like Bernie’s policies and am very glad we didn’t nominate him, but some of the criticism of him is subtly or not so subtly anti-Semitic, much like some of the criticism of Hillary was sexist and some of the criticism of Kamala is racist.

        • anon

          even under this specific subthread and the main election discussion above, there is plenty of moderate dems criticizing more unempathetic comments from the left and calling for more ways to connect and bring aboard conservative voters instead of alienating them. The board sure skews left, but I don’t think it’s fair to say they are only critical towards the right.

        • LaurenB

          “I am a conservative, loud and proud. I have a rich heritage and a bright future, and I’m going to work towards amplifying voices like mine.“

          So put your money where your mouth is. Take off your mask and cough in grandma’s face. That’s what conservatives stand for these days.

        • Anon

          OP, you definitely meant to be hateful, but now you are backpeddling now that folks have called you out on it. Give us a break.

        • Anon

          mean to be hateful, that is. I get that the OP is sick of what she views as white condescension, but she’s totally doing the “own the libs” thing.

    • Anonymous

      You need to educate yourself & be your own savior instead of your own worst enemy.

      • Clarke

        This sort of condescension is a great example of how Dems aren’t great at messaging. And before a bunch of folks clutch their pearls at me, my Dem bona fides are well-established. World has a lot of gray.

        • Curious

          I do think “Dems” tends to be a right-wing, outrage-related term though, vs Democrats, so it might be worth double checking your sources for bias?

          • Clarke

            Nope. I just didn’t feel like typing out “Democrats.” The usual linguistic test is actually the adjective–true Ds are supposed to say “Democratic” vs “Democrat,” e.g. “the Democratic governor of the state,” vs “the Democrat governor.” I don’t want to out myself, but my “sources” are serving directly in many Democratic offices at the federal level. I just like nuance. But try again :).

          • LaurenB

            Sigh. Dems is just bc people don’t want to type out Democrats or Democratic. Just like bc above, because I didn’t want to type out because, or ACB because I didn’t want to type out Amy Coney Barrett.

          • Clarke

            You recommend I check my sources, I provided additional info. If that’s condescending, I’m sorry for triggering you.

        • Ellen

          Why are we wasting so much time on this blog talking politics? This is a fashion blog. If you want to blow off steam, go onto Facebook, CNBC, Fox News or Twitter. I am sure Kat and Kate and Elizabeth could care less about our generaly uninformed political opinions. They are rightfully advancing fashion for us ladies so that we can be better dressed, get better jobs, or land better men then we would if we dressed like schlubs. Jill Biden got VPOTUS b/c of her total personage, and FLOTUS got POTUS b/c she was also cute, smart and dressed well.

      • anon

        Not OP, but this is a prime example of the condescension they were referring to. Assuming because she is a POC, she must be uneducated on how to best vote for herself?

      • cbackson

        You are literally illustrating exactly what she’s talking about.

        If there is anything that liberals, and particularly the women on this site, should take away from these election results, it’s that support from Trump has been and continues to be far more complex that we on the left like to pretend. It is easy and comfortable to dismiss Trump supporters as a bunch of uneducated racists because then we don’t have to really dig into the concerns that motivate them and how both the Democratic platform and Democratic messaging have failed (in this election and over the last four years). If there is a lesson to learn here, it’s that writing off nearly half the country as irredeemable, rather than examining our own failures and biases, is a bad strategy.

        • Anon

          Agreed. People vote in what they feel is their best interest. Telling them they are wrong about what they feel is the best choice is only going to alienate people. Ask why they feel like a vote for Trump was in their best interest. Listen to the answers instead of telling them they are wrong.

          • Anon

            Real, honest question: what exactly will that do? How will that change anyone’s minds? It’s apparent that those folks are completely entrenched in their own version of reality and have proven remarkably impermeable to things like “facts” or “logic.” What do we have to gain by listening to them?

          • LaurenB

            Exactly. I mean, my god, we’ve tried to tell them to wear a stupid piece of cloth over their faces and not go to big public gatherings or hold parties and do they listen? No.

          • Anon

            What do you lose by not listening to them? They aren’t going away, they won’t just disappear. The only way to actually change someone’s mind is to have a conversation. There’s a lot of research around the best way to change someone’s mind and it all starts with…listening to them first

        • Anon

          And wake up- Biden is only doing decently in this election because Trump is a bad apple. If Republicans had someone decent on the other side (which they probably will in the future) then they would be smoking the Democrats.

    • Anonymous

      No group is a monolith, I find people incredibly complicated. I also dislike white saviorism, I have a lot more respect for people than that. I am disappointed in the results because I don’t think President Trump is competent, but I do not support a number of elements of the progressive platform. If, in the end, the Democrats lose, the party needs to take a serious look at itself, its ideas, and why the American public has rejected them. Painful, yes, and you can come up with all the excuses in the world, but fundamentally, each candidate has been rejected by about one-half of the voters. Not a great vote of confidence for any one in this mess.

    • Anon

      I don’t think you’re wrong because you are a POC and it’s not OK for POC to have different opinions from me. I think you are wrong because Trump is a demented racist rapist who is actively trying to destroy our democracy. I’m sure you have your reasons but I’m struggling to think of what could possibly be compelling enough.

    • Anonymous

      The issue is not conservative vs. liberal. The issue is democracy. IDGAF if you’re pro-life, pro-economy above all, anti-BLM or whatever other things I disagree with. I care that you are supporting a politician who does not value democracy. I hope in the future you have enough self confidence to know that as a conservative woman you deserve better.

      The attempts to undermine democracy via voter suppression throughout the US are unlike anything done by even the far-right neo-Nazi parties in Europe. Like your standards for democracy are literally lower than neo-Nazis standards. You deserve better even if you don’t have the self-confidence to know that. And while you’re enjoying American freedom and opportunity, you might take a little time to appreciate the value of democracy because it might not be around that much longer. The person you helped elect was literally trying to stop votes from being counted last night. It is fundamentally undemocratic.

      • Anon

        Right. Like, I get that people are racist and like Trump’s tax policy and anti-abortion policy or whatever. But how do you explain that he went on TV and said Democrats were stealing the election in WI/MI/PA by trying to count all the votes, but oh by the way we HAVE to keep counting in AZ and NV because he will win those states when all the votes are counted. How do you possibly reconcile that blatant bending of election law to suit his whims? That’s the rule now – that we only keep counting in the states where Trump is behind and whenever Trump reaches a plurality of votes we suddenly stop counting?!? Because that’s some third world dictator stuff right there.

        • Curious

          Lol and or second (?) world Putin stuff. I lived in Russia in 2012. I do not want our politics to look like theirs. The people have zero power through government, but they still get taxed to line leaders’ pockets. No thanks.

          • Anon

            Yeah, third world was probably inaccurate. I was thinking especially of Russia. This is so Putin-esque.

        • Anonymous

          I mean, are you discounting that all the countries around the world with the most wealth and highest standards of living for the majority of their citizens are democracies?

          But I guess if you were not voting and vast economic inequality, increased violence and insecurity, then you do you.

          • Anon

            I guess I’m comparing these countries to every other civilization in history that achieved peace and prosperity some other way, and I’m acknowledging their collective contributions to climate change, inequality, the marginalization of Indigenous peoples, and war and conflict. I’m also feeling surrounded in a global pandemic by people who seem increasingly okay with abandoning the high risk so long as there are fewer of us? It’s just hard to feel in this particular moment like democracy in the abstract is just THE answer, even if I can acknowledge that it’s terrifying for US institutions to be threatened. It’s also just hard not to blame the whole system when it seems to be imploding from within!

          • Anon

            “Peace and prosperity” – for who????? How many of the citizens, subjects, serfs, whatever, do think actually enjoyed “peace and prosperity”?

          • Anon

            I know that many people in history enjoyed peace and prosperity. I also know that many of the people whose work supports a first world lifestyle are in bad circumstances today.

          • Anonymous

            Name any of those ‘civilizations’ And time periods that you are referring to. I notice that you couldn’t come up with a single reference.

      • Anonymous

        Yes. OP, you deserve better than an anti-democratic politician who wants to attack your right to vote. I can’t even care at this point what you do with that vote as long as we all have the opportunity to cast it.

      • Anon

        Not to mention that all these wonderful things she’s enjoying about the US were created when the country was stable and aren’t likely going to stick around as democracy crumbles around us.

      • cbackson

        Yeah, there are many things I dislike about Trump but the thing that actually gives me the cold chills is the undermining of the core democratic institutions and norms in this country.

    • Anonymous

      It’s mighty frustrating when people aren’t aware of their own best interest. Maybe there will be a silver lining to all this and society will let people shoot themselves in the foot. So have fun with your gaping wound and expensive healthcare

    • Anon

      I really wish you would just get the FOH. I am sure there are other spaces on the internet that would welcome you and your prissy scolding. I don’t have the energy for it today. You, and people like you, are the last people I want to be like, or understand. I don’t invite you to my parties. I don’t talk to you at school events. I don’t let you friend me on social media. And I don’t want to talk to you here. You support everything I am against and there’s no overcoming that. I don’t like you, I don’t want to talk to you, I really wish you would just go away and find some other people to bother. If that’s me being in a “bubble,” then I’m happy to stay in my bubble. Go find a bubble of your own and leave me alone, please.

    • Anon

      Most Cubans in the US are not POC, and they are racist AF against Black people and non-Cuban Hispanics. Source: dated a Cuban guy for years and know hundreds of Cuban-Americans in Florida.

      • Anon

        Yeah, one thing that I think the left gets completely wrong is the idea that POC cannot be racist because “racism is prejudice plus power.” I’m on the left and I disagree. That idea makes it impossible to talk about racism among Hispanic, Black, and Asian communities. You’re telling me it’s not racism, merely prejudice, for a Latino to use the n-word? That doesn’t fly with me.

        • Curious

          I do think however that a lot of the racism in Latin American communities is rooted in power — people of European descent vs. Black slaves (yes, the US didn’t have a monopoly on that) and indigenous peoples. It’s hard to divorce the two.

          • Curious

            I say this having witnessed pretty unsavory interactions between the South American (predominantly non-indigenous identifying, lighter-skinned, wealthy, politicians’ kids) student society in college and the (less wealthy, darker-skinned) Chicano (Mexican American) student association in college, as well as living and working in Ecuador and and Chile as a pale-skinned person with light hair.

          • Anon

            Oh totally – but I prefer to call that “supremacy.” It goes hand in hand with racism but people who are not in power can still be racist.

          • Curious

            Ha, not to mention watching the dynamics between the Puerto Rican and Black kids in the schools where I tutored in the NE. I totally agree there was a lot of stereotyping there. Still think it was rooted in power.

          • Curious

            Ah got it. Makes sense, Anon. We might use different words but we see the same thing.

          • Anonymous

            Oh man the racism and colourism in South America is crazy, I’m dark haired with pale olive skin and I’m treated like royalty based solely on my skin colour whenever I travel down there, it’s a wild ride to have people talk to you in Spanish as if you’re an upperclass local.

      • Anonymous

        Right? The irony of Cuban-American voting for someone who sees them as no different than the non-Cuban Hispanics that they are so proud to look down on.

        • Anon

          Sorry it apparently hit you where it hurts. Truthfully there are a number of people on this board who, if I knew them IRL, I would go out of my way to avoid them. Or actively poison their reputation in my social circle/community and get them ostracized so I wouldn’t have to see them anymore. The OP is one of those people.

          • Anon

            Didn’t hurt me, I wasn’t your target. And I would gladly have you avoid me since you’re boring, derivative, and seemingly a little bit evil.

    • Lilau

      I think this was meant to be inflammatory, but I see the point. I’m laughing and crying at the same time. Same as four years ago. I hate the idea that my country isn’t better than this. But if black men and Latinos are doubling down on trump, if they don’t see him as racist and want to keep my taxes lower, maybe I am in the wrong here. I think about race in America a lot, and I’m still convinced that racism is persistent, problematic and should be remedied. But if POC disagree on these points, I have to sit back and listen.

      I think this also goes for economically disadvantaged groups. I’m fighting to pay more taxes so they can take advantage of social programs that I’ll likely never need. Why? The answer was always that I wanted to live in a world where people didn’t go hungry or live in subpar housing or get terrible educations. But the people vulnerable to those things continue to disagree, or at least they vote like it. It just feels really hypocritical to accuse anyone else of “voting against their interests” when, in some sense, I’m doing the same.

      • Anonymous

        But why do you assume that if you pay more taxes, it will go to social programs? I assume that if we pay more taxes, much of it will get spent on defense, hand outs to other countries, and flat out waste.

        • Anon

          I agree with this. I’m not opposed to higher taxes in theory but I really am over our military spending and foreign aid when we have children starving right here.

      • Anon

        I work in diversity and inclusion. “POC” don’t feel this way. This poster feels this way. It’s an n=1 data point.

        • Anon

          This post is an n=1 data point but polling shows that plenty of POC voted for Trump (more than in 2016) so it’s worth having the conversation about.

          • theguvnah

            90% of Black women who voted voted for Biden. Let’s not overgeneralize or correct when we’re talking about a small minority.

      • Anonymous

        The white saviorism in this post is laughable. I guess the black men and hispanics that voted for Trump feel that they can get by without your generous offer to pay more taxes to fund “social programs” that you so racistly assume those voters need or want.

    • Anonie

      As a female of color who LOATHES Trump and has a huge, extended, multiracial family full of women of color who LOATHE Trump…don’t pretend to speak for us all.

      Trump doesn’t respect us and the women of color in my family and social circles have too much self-respect and morality to vote for a narcissistic, sexist, racist, money-laundering, wife-cheating, nepotism-practicing fool who doesn’t believe in our dignity or democratic principles.

    • Anon

      Your POV is interesting to me. I say all this from the viewpoint of a visible POC – I’m sorry if you can move through the world as a non-visible POC then I don’t think you can really speak for POC conservatives whose life experience will be fundamentally different.
      I think that the Republican party really screwed up by ticking up the racism messaging once Obama went into office and ticking up the anti-women sentiment when Hilary ran. A LOT of POC are very traditional and conservative. The Republican party should be a no brainer for them. Compared to the rest of the Western world, the U.S. is fairly right leaning across the board. If the party hadn’t embraced this messaging so hard, I don’t think Trump would have been a thing and the rise of more active hate groups would not have been so stark. Promoting an “us” v. “them” messaging in a racial sense has worked in the short term but idk how long that can last with growing populations of POC – especially latinos as a growing demographic as there are only so many white latinos that can be embraced while the darker ones are pushed to the “them” side. It really should have been a “Rep. v. Dem.” debate and not a “liberals look like this so we are against anything they are for” debate which is what it has devolved into.
      I also think the pro coal and oil messaging skewed too far into an anti-environment message, and now it is an “anti-science, pro-conspiracy theory” thing as a whole. A lot of people say Dems are bad at their messaging and I agree. But the Rep are also bad in the sense that they have no idea how to control the messaging once it gets out there – they encourage one idea and it just blows way off course, which is how you get anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers.
      It’s all a mess, both parties are a mess, but one party is not actively encouraging my literal demise (by encouraging hate groups and anti-science rhetoric that put my life in danger as a woman with health issues) and the demise of the constitutional principles that have held strong for 200+ years, so short term interests for a visible POC definitely means Dem makes more sense.

    • Anon

      So what, you’re proud of voting for a guy who actively wants to take away your freedoms just so you can feel you owned the libs or whatever? Big yikes.

      • Senior Attorney

        Right? Good Lord it isn’t going away while we are all distracted with this election and the pandemic.

    • Esquinkle

      I accept that I live in a bubble. I think that is a huge problem. I think that many people do not trust our institutions (Republicans, and now, increasingly, Democrats), which is also a problem. The part of your post that really sticks in my craw is that you say you came from a place without these freedoms and opportunities–when Trump is slamming the door to anyone else who is in your same situation but a few years behind.

    • Anon

      Why doesn’t it matter to you that Trump has no sense of decency? That he openly endorses violent racists time and time again? That he criticized McCain as a loser for being a prisoner of war? That he is a scam artist who has gone bankrupt multiple times and is known for ripping off small business contractors simply because he can? That he bragged about sexually assaulting women? That he tweets conspiracy theories at all hours of the day and night?

      My family is conservative FOX News addicts, and I get that not everyone is a liberal. But I don’t understand supporting someone who is so clearly damaging to our fabric as a society.

    • LaurenB

      “you think about your own life and your own community, are you really disadvantaged?”

      I myself will be fine. I’m white, well-to-do, cis/hetero, do not have physical disabilities, etc. But here’s the thing. I care about more than just me and my pocketbook. I want women to be able to have the reproductive care of their choice, even though my reproductive years are behind me. I want LGBTQ people to have full rights, even though no one in my family happens to be LGBTQ. I want immigrants to be able to come in this country and pursue their dreams, just like my grandfather did when he arrived in 1920. I want science and public health to play a major part in governmental decision-making at all levels. And I’d like my president to have decency, warmth and a sense of humor and not embarrass us on a global stage. Whether I, personally, am going to be “all right” is just not the issue and I find such thinking self-centered, frankly.

    • Anon

      I hate that the message from Trump and Republicans is just totally hate-filled and inspired by spite and all you tr 0 lls here today are telling us we need to just let you guys hate. I’m sorry, I dgaf if you think it’s condescending for me to say that you’re racist and hateful, or that I’m heartbroken that so many Americans are that way too. There is a right and a wrong here, and y’all are not on the right side of it no matter how much you try to make yourselves out to be victims.

      • Anon

        I think Trump is a scumbag and voted for Biden, but Republicans do not have a monopoly on hate and spite as evidenced by many of the comments all over the section today.

        • LaurenB

          I don’t see Biden tweeting insults at celebrities and public figures. Do you?

        • anon

          Do yall ever get tired of both-sidesing everything??? There is a clear difference between the conversations on this board vs actual fascism.

          • Anon

            +1. It takes a really amazing level of self-involvement to equate people criticizing rural voters with Trump actively trying to tear down the republic. Wow.

    • Anon Probate Atty

      Do you think sexism doesn’t exist? Is the potential overturning of Roe just an imaginary problem? For those of us who are white, we actually do have very real reasons to vote against Trump. And I don’t understand the whole “white savior” point. Sure, I get that some white people are condescending, but not all of us are. Many people do what they can to support the rights of POC without being performative about it. Should they not be doing that? Why treat it as if we’re all obnoxious?

    • anon

      OP: “Liberals are condescending and generalize all the time! God, I am so sick and tired of listening to white women, your constant hysterics are disgusting and mind-numbing.”

      Also OP: “Stop generalizing about POC women and being condescending to us!”

      Yeah wow condescension and generalizations are super bad, aren’t they, OP? Thanks for your valuable addition to this discussion.

    • Anon

      Look, we Democrats (probably) won. We unseated an incumbent president. Generally after a loss it’s the losers that have learned a “lesson.” It’s time for you (and fellow conservatives) to weep. And perhaps think about pandering to voters that you failed to win over.

      • Anon

        This. We won, guys! Was Trump sitting around crying in ‘16? No way. He and his supporters were rejoicing and celebrating. And he won by a much smaller margin than Biden will.

        I get the disappointment that it wasn’t a blowout but…. unseating an incumbent president when the economy is good is HARD. Like basically-never-happened-in-history hard. A win is a win is a win, and we won. Sure, we need to keep pounding the pavement and fighting hard for the senate in ‘22, but we also need to stop acting like we lost last night because we didn’t.

    • anon

      So, I am a right of center WOC (Biden voter, and member of the Democratic party), and honestly, I feel this so, so, so hard. Like at the end of the day I want Trump out, but a lot of the mythology of folks on the left, especially among white women, is off base and very grating.I have many problems with the party and its rhetoric, and I just…. fall on the other side of the aisle from OP, but she’s very on point.

  10. Artificial Christmas Trees

    Do some cheery Christmas shopping for me today! I’m on the hunt for a decent quality but not terribly expensive (certainly not Balsam Hill price) artificial tree.
    Prefer pre-lit and around the 6.5-7′ range. Price cap around $200.

  11. Anon

    Another holiday shopping distraction – a fall wreath for my front door? Something I can leave outdoors for three or four weeks? Any suggestions?

    • Thanks, it has pockets!

      Have you checked Micheals? I got a great Halloween wreath from them last month.

    • Anon Probate Atty

      Balsam Hill, if you are willing to pay for it. They are so nice, it’s worth the extra $$ IMO.

  12. kk

    Have any of you ordered clothes from AYR? I really like their aesthetic, especially as working from home might be a permanent option for me with some sporadic travel- I can’t live in athleisure forever and would like to look/feel fully dressed. I have plenty of Mm lafleur but their more casual clothes just dont do it for me. What did you think of the quality/longevity of things from AYR – is it worth the $? I’d love to pick up a few items and then use their catalog as general inspiration as I choose items from target/old navy/etc.

  13. Ballot clutter -- NC edition

    First: to Cal Cunningham: dude, this was your race to lose and it looks like you lost it. How hard is it for guys to keep it in your pants? Is it like some dudes walk down the street and it’s “whoops — look what my thingie slipped into!”?

    Also: I got the choices of D, R, Libertarian (which I expected), and Conservative (which I did not). No Green Party candidate (do they not exist any more?). Also no Kanye West.

    Why do the governor and the lieutenant governor run separate races? I think Va is like this and it makes no sense.

    How many cabinet offices do I need to vote for? And judges — pages and pages of judges. It seems a bit icky to have to elect judges (like “I am a better judger; no, I am”). So, so, so many.

    • Anon

      Cal Cunningham is gross, but Senate candidates typically underperform presidential candidates and it looks like NC is going to Trump, so I don’t think Cunningham’s behavior mattered at all.

    • Anonymous

      As a Canadian reading the NY Times last night, I was shocked how many different positions are voted for. It seems like it would be very intimidating for non-voters and non-first language English people to have these enormous ballots.

      • Anon

        It depends on the state. In CA, voters vote directly on lots of issues. In my Midwest state, we only vote for a handful of elected offices (President/VP, Congress, statehouse, state attorney general, city and county council reps, judges and school boards). Everything except the school board is partisan, so you can select a straight Democratic or Republican ticket if you want.

          • Anonymous

            CA — what is it with initiatives and referenda and ballot questions?! It’s like you elect a governor and a senate and a house to handle Things and still they make voters decide Things. Handle it! That is what you are there to do!

        • Anonymous

          “President/VP, Congress, statehouse, state attorney general, city and county council reps, judges and school boards”

          This is way way more than we vote for in Canada or I think than they vote for anywhere in Europe. We have separate federal, provincial, municipal elections every 4 years where you vote for one person to represent your district. Separate school board elections every 4 years too but these have a very low turnout. Judges are appointed based on committee recommendations to the Minister of Justice.

          Ballots are rarely larger than an index card and usually just have a list of 4-6 names. Make a check mark with your pencil and you’re done.

          • Anon

            But again, other than the school boards, many, if not most, people vote a straight ticket. So if you want to just select your party and be done with it, you can.

          • Anonymous

            They took our straight ticket voting button away and now it takes forever to vote. So many picayune races.

      • A Nonny Mouse

        In MI, we voted for 21 or 22 offices this year – 3 state school trustees, multiple judges, national, state and local positions (such as drain commissioner), school board, sheriff, it went on and on.

    • Lilau

      Agree on the judges! Where I live they are often cross endorsed and difficult to research. I only vote for the ones I’ve dealt with and found competent and fair. Yesterday my husband said, “you’re voting for Judge so and so? you’re always complaining about him.” True, because he’s tough on my client and his calendar takes forever, but he’s a good judge.

    • Senior Attorney

      In my jurisdiction the County Bar Association does a really good job of vetting judicial candidate and rating them on a scale of Not Qualified, Qualified, Well Qualified, and Exceptionally Well Qualified. I’d suggest seeing if your local Bar Association does anything similar.

      • Anon

        They do, but I think it’s just qualified or not, and typically the candidates are all at least qualified (there have been a handful of not qualified). I’m a lawyer and I still have a hard time deciding on the judicial races. I have no idea how nonlawyers are supposed to make any semi-informed decision.

        • anon

          There are lots of organizations that recommend candidates or positions. If there are some races that you want input on, you have your pick from environmental clubs, labor organizations, civil rights endorsements, whoever you think overlaps with your interests. A bunch of my neighbors met on our quiet street to go over propositions together and discuss.

        • Anon

          The judges I had to vote between were all interviewed, and I found it really helpful to watch the interviews. It was also just plan encouraging after seeing political campaigning, since pretty much every judge sounded vastly more thoughtful than most politicians. I did not appreciate some of the political culture wars talking points that some of the judges snuck in, so sometimes I felt like my choice became partisan because I felt they made it partisan, but often it was a much harder choice between candidates as well.

    • Anon

      Seriously, Cal. And it’s not like this was an affair years ago. No, you had to go and sleep with someone not his wife in JULY. Come on, be better.
      And yes, the things we vote for in NC is kind of out of control. Voting for judges is bad enough, and then they went and stuck party labels on them a few years ago (thanks, Republican GA). Just no. But I’m glad I get a voice in the Soil and Water Conservation District Supervisor position. /sarcasm/
      Also, is Cooper going to run for president at some point? Because this is the second election he’s managed to win when Trump won the state, so we know he has cross-party appeal to some extent.

      • Anonymous

        Re Cooper, I hope not. NC seems to produce candidates who go wildly sideways (John Edwards).

  14. In-House in Houston

    Ladies, I bought this sweater at Macys’s and just love it. It’s an elbow length turtleneck with pleats on the shoulder. For those of you in areas that aren’t too cold, this is a great buy and also fits nicely under a blazer. Just wanted to share a great find.

    https://www.macys.com/shop/product/alfani-turtleneck-sweater-created-for-macys?ID=11237331&tdp=cm_app~zMCOM-NAVAPP~xcm_zone~zPDP_ZONE_B~xcm_choiceId~zcidM06MJS-b116852b-451d-486a-97df-a0d24ee1cb2b%40H8%40customers%2Balso%2Bloved%24260%2411237331~xcm_pos~zPos1~xcm_srcCatID~z260

    • Anon Probate Atty

      At what temps do you wear this? I feel like it would be too warm for warm days and not warm enough for cold days. If I were really cold I would normally wear something long sleeved under a blazer. I do think it’s cute, though.

  15. Anonymous

    Y’all– I think the answer to my question is “do nothing,” but I’m here for a gut-check.

    My husband runs a department. He has a group that reports into him looking to hire someone with a very specific skill set that is a pain to find, and new openings take him about 8-12 months to fill. Since we now WFH together, he was telling me about the skill set over lunch and it made me think of a woman I used to work with. I reached out to her and asked if she’d be interested in the role, sent her the JD, and when she said she was interested, I gave her DH’s contact info (at his request).

    I asked DH if he ever got something and he said he did get her resume and based on the resume alone, she is not at all a fit for the role. Based on what I told him about working with the woman in the past, though, she’s a perfect fit. He passed her name along to the hiring manager on his team asking for her to be interviewed.

    Anyway, my question is whether or not (and if yes, how) to let the woman know that her resume would never have gotten her past recruiting. Obviously not in a bad way, just in a “hey if you are going to be job searching, you may want this feedback” kind of way.

    I think the answer is do nothing, but at the same time…I would want to know. She’s been job hunting for a year or so with not a lot of luck.

    If it matters, it’s not that it was an unprofessional or bad resume. It’s that she had it written to focus on her skills/experience as a people manager, when the role she really wants is a strategic-doer and not a people manager. Career wise, she has done both so it’s really just a change in the way she emphasizes her work accomplishments.

    • No Face

      I’ve given my friends resume advice when I am passing on their information, but usually before I pass on the resume. Mainly Ask a Manager advice – focus on accomplishments rather than a job description. I will also mention edits specifics about the role (e.g. “add how many depositions you do in a year because I know they re looking for that”). I would not tell her that the resume would not have made it past recruiting, especially as you have already passed the resume on.

      • Anonymous

        I didn’t see the resume at all, and, in this case, it DID get her an interview.

        If things don’t work out with this role, then perhaps what I could do is reach out and ask if she wants me to send her resume around, and at that point offer some feedback. Thanks!

    • Cat

      I would let your husband pass this on to her if she does get the job (“can you believe we almost wouldn’t have brought you in!”).

      If she doesn’t, you could say this softly (“hey sorry it didn’t work out, if you’re looking for something similar, FYI husband mentioned that your resume looked more focused on a management role vs strategy and asked me about it.”)

      • anon

        I like this approach. It doesn’t give so much detail about the company’s internal process, and it alerts her to a possible miscommunication rather than something being wrong with her resume. Also, it’s key that if either of you say anything, it’s after your husband’s company makes a decision.

    • Anonymous

      Obviously not. Don’t tell your husband’s company’s internal business to a job candidate.

    • edup

      I would have appreciated someone telling me this. I am going through this now, I simply do not know how to sell myself on my resume. You obviously did a fantastic job of selling her, but maybe she does not know all this about herself or does not know how to get it onto a page.

  16. Anon

    My husband is REALLY into soups. We don’t have a stockpot, and our 7 QT pot is too small for the double batches he makes. Are all 10-16 Qt stockpot created equally? Or are there some favorites? We are pretty regular home-chefs so we have a ton of the basics (emulsion blender, food processor), but are there any other soup-making gadgets/supplies I should consider?

    • Go for it

      I’m AllClad all the way for a big pot used for pasta sauce, stews & soups. I think mine is called the pasta pentola

      • BB

        Second the All Clad, especially the d5 line. They’re pricey but you can wait for a Williams Sonoma 20% off sale. I love the soup pot I bought. Don’t remember the volume but it’s wide and shallow vs. narrow and deep, which is new for me but I’ve found it better for soups and stews.

        I also make a lot of soups in my Le Creuset dutch oven if you want to go that route. One thing I love to do with those is start it on the stove, get it to a boil, then throw it in the over at ~350 for a few hours. I think you can actually do this with the All Clad too, but the dutch oven probably does better for slow cooking.

    • anon

      we are home chefs and we like the stainless steel stockpots from The Restaurant Store….we have different sizes, they are great and prices are reasonable

    • Anon

      For that quantity you may be better off with two 7 qt pots rather than one giant pot. Especially if yoj don’t have industrial burners.

    • pugsnbourbon

      We have a nice Calphalon nonstick stockpot that’s held up nicely (~10 yrs). We had a Le Creuset enameled steel stockpot that surprisingly did not hold up well, but we got it at an outlet so YMMV.

    • Anon

      Thank you, everyone! My 7 Qt is the Le Creuset enameled pot so it’s wide and squat and maybe that’s why it doesn’t work for our normal stove (hard to fit other large skillets/pots at the same time). And the needing better burners for a bigger pot is a GREAT point. So maybe two ~7qt pots that are narrower is what I’m looking for. Thank you for the research distraction!!

    • Anon Probate Atty

      I always use the Instant Pot for soups. Works like a charm and cuts the time way down.

  17. Flavors of Magic

    Hi all,
    For those of you who were so supportive when I posted a couple of weeks ago, and for anyone who might be looking for a little distraction and light entertainment this week:

    My virtual magic show, Flavors of Magic (@flavorsofmagic) will be airing an all-new episode this Thursday at 7pm Eastern time. Past episodes are also available for viewing, on demand.
    www (dot) flavorsofmagic (dot) com

    This Thursday, the cast of top magicians from all over the United States will also include a special guest performer, me!

  18. Anon

    Any recommendations for good CBD brands besides Equilibria. I have tried and liked Equilibria but its expensive and it has a monopoly on all of the influencers giving “honest reviews” so it is hard to tell if there is a good, less expensive alternative.

    • Dagny

      I’m not familiar with the brand you mention so I can’t be sure if it’s more/less expensive but I order regularly from Medterra and have had great results. I order as needed (not subscription) and can usually find 20% off code. With that I pay around $80 for 2000mg unflavored oil which is about half what my local shop charges.

    • anonymous

      I use CBD MD. I like their gummies and capsules. I’ve never tried the oil. I think with the code SOCIAL you can get a discount. Or once you sign up for emails they often have promo codes.

  19. Staying warm while car camping

    I am in a group that car camps monthly (and backpacked once).

    For backpacking, you were walking up a mountain with a heavy pack and food, so a 1 mile walk kept you warm, then you set up a tent, built a fire, cooked dinner, hung out by the fire, and got into your sleeping bag. Warm. It was bad to get up to pee over night, but getting back into the sleeping bag was awesome. The next morning, we did it in reverse (and largely downhill — yay), then into car with seatwarmers and home.

    For car camping, this will be my second time when it will be very cold (the last time was in Feb, right before lockdown) and I found it hard to be warm. I think I have the gear, but other than pacing back and forth, am not sure how to manage. The goal is leave Friday, so possibly 2 nights, but I may get stuck and work and could drive up the next morning (don’t want to set up tent in darkness now that it is dark so early).

    Tips? Hints? It’s not so much gear-specific (I seem to have adequate gear and maybe Santa will bring me fancier things this year), but how do I manage? Like I live in the mid-Atlantic, not even Canada or somewhere legit cold, but I just seem to delicate (and my giant hat is off to people from the 1800s and before– very impressive what people used to do to survive).

    • Anonymous

      Hey, you just need to develop some confidence in yourself. I’ve seen you post a couple times on this subject and there’s no problem with that, but I think you might be missing the part where you just need to try different things and see what works for you. Everyone has their own preferences and core body temperature and there’s no magic answer for what works. If you’re going monthly, you’ll be able to try things easily. Just do it!

      • anon

        I’m pretty sure the various backpacking and camping questions have been from different people, especially because most of them say it’s their first time and this OP goes every month.

    • Cat

      The forecast for this weekend is milder in the mid-Atlantic (high is 70 on Sat near me); although it will still get to 50 at night that will hopefully help you!

      • Anonymous

        I live in CLT and we’ve already had several overnight lows near freezing and up in the mountains there is another weather system (like WNC, New River area, etc.). Check the weather and hourly forecasts for where you’re going (not where you live).

    • Diana Barry

      Gently, this is like the 10th time you’ve posted about this – I’m not sure what answers you’re still looking for!

      • Anon

        +1. OP, I get it, sometimes I fixate on things too, but you need to just try different things out. You’ve gotten a lot of good advice already. There is no one answer.

    • Anon

      I don’t think you should be going camping if it’s causing you this much anxiety. You’ve posted about this so many times!

    • Anon

      You don’t have to go if you don’t want to! It’s fine to camp in nice weather only. If you want some more insulation get a sleeping mat and a down blanket for on top of your sleeping bag, but it sounds like you have the gear you need to stay warm.

      • Anon

        I think it’s this. Camping is not for everyone – my husband refuses to go camping; camping vacations were the only kind he experienced as a kid growing up in a low-income family and he hated it then, and will not do it now. OP, gently, maybe camping is just not for you if you have to put this much time and energy into figuring out how to make it work. Like, I know running is not for me; I tried it and tried to make it work and got fitted for shoes and all that, but it’s not my thing. At all. Cycling, however, is my thing and it feels so effortless to me and no problem at all to make it work.

        I live in a VERY outdoorsy area – nearly everyone hikes, camps, rock-climbs, mountain bikes, goes fishing, etc. – and do not know too many people who camp in the winter because of what you are describing: it gets cold, and it’s hard to stay comfortable. Is it possible to stay part of the group you’re in and just say, I like spending time with you folks but my camping is going to be restricted to warmer-weather months? If you don’t like something and it makes you miserable, it’s okay to stop doing it. Buying more (very expensive) gear is not always the solution; I know people who bought $4,000 bikes and really tried to like cycling and then figured out, you know what? This is not for me. And then had to sell the bike for less than half what they paid for it. Don’t make the same mistake.

        • anon

          Agree with all of this. I consider myself at least moderately outdoorsy and enjoy being active, even when it’s cold outside. But fall/winter camping sounds like pure misery. No amount of gear is going to make it palatable. And camping gear is not cheap, so I’d really hesitate to invest further in this venture.

    • anon

      I am really not sure why you keep putting yourself through these camping adventures that you don’t seem very psyched about.

    • No Problem

      Guys, I don’t think this is the same poster as all the other camping posters. And I don’t think all of those were the same person, either. This poster also seems fairly fluent with camping, unlike some of the other posts. OP, perhaps you can clarify whether you have posted about camping recently.

      • Anonymous

        No, it’s 100% the same person. It’s really not that hard to tell, honestly. Someone else may have asked a one-off question but not like this.

        • Anonymous

          It is definitely the same person.

          I don’t get why she keeps going camping if she hates it so much. I like camping, but I know my limits and when it ceases to be fun. I have no problem cancelling a trip if it’s going to rain the whole time, or if it’s 110 degrees, or if I have a cold. Camping is a whole lot of work, and if conditions and your preferences will add up to misery no matter what, it’s just not worth going.

          • anon

            How could you possibly know that it’s the same person? The other camping posts were all from people doing it for the first time or going with scout troops. Lots of people are camping more this year!

          • Thanks, it has pockets!

            Maybe it just seems like the only safe thing to do right now, where you can go somewhere, hang out with people outside your household, and sleep somewhere other than your home – since the typical trip where you fly somewhere and stay in a hotel, or with a friend or family member, is something to avoid right now. And while I think it’s neat that so many people are trying out things like hiking and camping right now, due to COVID, it’s also important to acknowledge that it’s not going to be enjoyable for everyone, at least not when the weather gets cold.

    • Anon

      If moving around is what warms you up, then do that when you go car camping too. Go on a hike. I’m not really sure what the point of camping is if you just drive somewhere and then sleep outside and that’s it.

  20. Insta-worthy

    Yesterday, I did mise en place and spent an hour chopping things and then made a stew in my Staub cast-iron small Dutch oven. I felt like I was living my best Instagram life (did not post; too lazy to get phone to take a picture).

    I got it on a good sale at WS last winter and feel that this is the weather when it calls me to use it.

  21. Cassandra

    I would bet serious money that the stylist is Dutch. You see a lot of socks and sandals in the Netherlands. I realize that most people think socks and sandals are ugly, but socks and sandals are really comfortable! Says the first generation Dutch girl. :)

    • Anonymous

      Hmm, so maybe the guy in my office who wears black socks with Birks Monday – Thursday and white socks with Birks for casual friday is Dutch?

        • Anonymous

          Ha, definitely not a programmer. He is an old economist who types with two fingers and thinks that the young ‘uns can magically solve everything with machine learning.

          • kag

            I’ve met a fair share of these economists in the Netherlands :) And yes, they wear sandals and old ratty socks…

  22. Anon

    PSA- if you live in a state where you voted by mail and can check your ballot online, make sure you do so. i know people who checked, their ballots were not counted bc of some issue and they were able to call and verify their identity

    • Anon

      Or you could live in my state (MA) where the website has an obnoxious glitch. It prompts you to enter your street number, name and suffix – street, lane, road, etc – in three separate lines/fields and then hit search. Except if you do that, it comes up as not finding your ballot. But if you put your street number in field #1 and then combine your street name and suffix in the second field and leave the third blank, it shows up. Glitch has been there for weeks, is known, but is not fixed. It’s caused some angry misinformation about ballots being tossed out, etc. Oy – nothing’s easy.

    • NY CPA

      +1 — I voted in person but they rejected my signature (because it wasn’t close enough to the signature the DMV had from when I was 16 years old) and I had to do the process over again. If I had mailed my ballot in, I wouldn’t have had that chance to know it was rejected and fix it.

  23. Anonymous

    Oh man I love this dress. Should I get it in blue or coral? I’m v pale, blonde, and both colors work well on me. I’m also quite short – maybe I should get a petite size? If so, that decides the color issue (petite is only available in blue).

  25. Anon Probate Atty

    Light note: my 9-year-old nephew made it onto the local news, when he accompanied my brother to the polling place yesterday. He said on camera “I wanted to vote for Kanye, but he wasn’t on the ballot”. Hahaha

    • theguvnah

      honestly sounds like your nephew needs some better civics education. I don’t find this amusing at all.

      • Anon

        Yeah, this is horrifying. My 3 year old understands why we support Biden and what’s at stake in this election (in an age-appropriate way). A 9 year old should definitely understand why throwing away a vote on Kanye is problematic.

      • anon

        Good thing he’s 9 and therefore not actually voting. This is not a big deal.

  26. changing vote

    I have always considered the Democratic party to be the more progressive party that is accepting of all types of people and as more empathetic.

    After reading these comments, especially LaurenB, I no longer think that way. I will be much more unlikely to vote for a Democrat in the future.

  27. Anon

    This dress seems as divisive as the election! Another divisive topic: Pineapple on pizza. I think it’s obviously the best and almost every pizza benefits from the inclusion of pineapple.

    • Thanks, it has pockets!

      I definitely enjoy it and Hawaiian one of my go-to pizza styles, but honestly, I wouldn’t call it my favorite. Cheese is also great, as is peppers and mushrooms from Dominos, and Impossible meat with hot honey drizzle from Stoked.

    • Colombian Hot Dogs

      Okay, BUT also, check out Colombian hot dogs. We use crushed pineapple, chips, mozzarella shredded cheese, pink sauce–so savory (salty/sweet/glorious).

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