Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Marlie Blouse

375 Comments

1. If my HHI were above $1M, this is what I would spend it on

   1. Mine isn’t, so there is a wash and dry-able polyester dip of this I have in 3 colors / prints from J Crew Factory. That store hits it out of the park for me regularly.

      If I had a HHI that high, I’d work part-time (but most jobs paying that much are not really amenable to doing it less intensely).

      1. DUPlicate. Not dip. If I had a HHI of $1M, would hire a proofreader.

         1. LOL, I was wondering if this was a new slang term that my middle schooler hasn’t introduced me to.

            1. Ask your middle schooler about “riz,” which I just had to have explained to me by my high schooler.

      2. I’m pretty darn certain Jcrew makes/made a version of this exact blouse in both short and long sleeves. The ‘drapey ruffle trim’ shirt. This is pretty but way overpriced imho.

      3. I don’t have an HHI that high, but I do have blouses like this one, but I wait until the cooler weather, and usually wear ones like this in court. I start with my blazer on, and when I stand up to cross examine the witness, I take off my blazer and before walking up to examine him, I carefully place the blazer on the back of the chair before proceeding to go right up to the witness as I pass the judge to start my cross examination. The judge loves it when I start slowly, often asking questions that have already been answered, but just to lay the foundation, and when I do that, the judge appreciates that I am giving him the path I want him to follow with me. Once I am done with the witness, I slowly walk back to my chair, turn around, smile, and say, no more questions, your honor! It works most every time, and this proves that I still have IT! YAY!

   2. Not me, lol. It reminds me too much of the dresses I had when I was 8.
      At least this top is cotton, though. A nice change from the usual polyester everything.

   3. I mean, I don’t think you need to make a million dollars to spend $290 on a top.

      1. Right? I don’t buy tons of stuff but I’d pay for this and wear it all the time.

         1. +1, I prefer to have a handful of good quality cotton blouses than a giant pile of polyester. Plus there are these things called sales….

            1. Eh, I’m all about fewer better, but that’s about basics. How often can you really wear a high ruffle necked shocking red blouse? This is a once in a while piece.

            2. Agree with Anon at 11:30am.

               This is definitely not an investment piece. It is a trendy piece, that even if I liked it, I would rarely wear. Too memorable. And people will call it dated in a year.

      2. I would pay $290 for a basic that I can wear with nearly everything else I own a few times a week, not for a top like this.
         To each their own, though.

         1. Yup. This isn’t worth the investment.

      3. For real! The money talk on this site really baffles me.

   4. These recent conversations about money have been so interesting, and interesting that there have been so many of them. Often I feel like this entire site needs to be archived and studied though I have no idea how that would work.

      1. Right? I’m still thinking about how many people said they tend to keep their vehicles for 20 years in a post last week. At least in my upper-middle class town, people seem to trade in around 13 years at maximum. I’m all about not spending a ton on a car, but find it hard to believe that so many folks with 7 figure incomes drive their cars for that length of time.

         1. Trust me. They do. Been in plenty of them, which get replaced with a new expensive sedan/cross over that will be driven into the ground.

         2. I was a commenter last week with a 21 year old Toyota, but I don’t have a 6 figure income. Bought it used when I graduated college because it’s all I could afford and have kept it because I can’t afford a car payment.

            I would have a backup camera if it was in the budget!!!

            1. I was the commenter with a 23 year old Toyota, and I do have a 6 figure income. I’m very much a “if it gets me from point a to point b, i otherwise don’t care if it’s fancy” person.

            2. What you need to do is after your car is paid off keep paying yourself the car payment. If you did that $300/month x 10 years saved would buy you the car.

         3. One of my C-suite colleagues had a teary breakdown in the elevator yesterday because he drove his new car in for the first time, replacing a 20-year-old Dodge that was his first car.

            1. I make >$300,000 per year and I also cried when I had to stop driving my first car last year. It was a 2006 Chevy Aveo, very simple little car but man was I emotionally attached. I would still be driving it if the axel wasn’t literally breaking in half.

         4. I’m one of the posters with 20+ year old cars, and we do not have anything close to a 7 figure income! More like $180-200k, although we live in a LCOL college town, have a fully paid off house and feel pretty affluent on this income.

            But I think generally you’re conflating two different things – a small number of people with really old cars, and a small number of people with seven figure incomes. I doubt there’s much overlap between the two groups.

         5. It tracks. This is the concept of the millionaire next door – the people who have tons of money are often not the obvious ones. They don’t get that way by spending it in flashy ways.

            1. Some people are cheap, have old cr**py stuff, and get rich from not spending. It total tracks.

            2. Anonymous at 12:58.

               Yes, that is how you get rich. Not spending.

               Some of us spend less, get rich sooner, and retire early. And some people buy new cars every 10 years and buy tons of new stuff when things they have are fine. Or they buy just to buy, and judge people for not being “trendy”. Just different preferences, different values.

               And some of us don’t like to waste.
               And some of us love unique family heirlooms, and don’t buy furniture (or kitchens…) that must be thrown away/remodeled every few years.
               And some of us enjoy spending money on travel/experiences. Or we give. Or we save for a rainy day/old age needs.

            3. There is nothing wrong with being cheap. Some people do not value having nice new stuff. Everyone is different. Whatever makes you happy.

            4. not spending when you make 7 figures is a little different from when you make 5 figures… but yeah, it’s easy to spend away even 7 figures if you are not mindful!

         6. I’m doubtful commentators with seven-figure salaries are the ones keeping their cars for 20 years. I keep my cars until they die or ruined in an accident, which has been as long as 20 years, but my salary is only around $150k. I think different people are attracted to different conversation threads, and that accounts for a lot of the inconsistencies

         7. I make $2 million a year. I drive an 11-year old SUV and a 15-year-old Prius. We’re just not car people.

            1. We’re with you. Living on assets now, in our 60’s, and we keep cars for about 15 years. Always have, always will, net worth in the low double digits. We get a paint job every 5 years of so so the car does not look too bad, and keep up with maintenance and repairs.

      2. It would be fascinating! I suspect that there is a certain amount of piling on (topics that raised once continue to be raised for a certain period of time). Before I even looked at the comments I knew someone would mention the price – just as anytime there is an inexpensive polyester top people are going to talk about how much they hate poly and where are all the natural fibers (to which the answer is they exist if you can/want to pay for them and can/want to deal with the care).

      3. I really enjoy the topics and recent discussions. Like most things you have to filter out some comments along the way, but overall really informative and also helpful to see perspectives of others. It sparked a thoughtful convo with DH and me last night about retirement vs. college (vs wedding, in his brain – he’s a proud girl dad and dreams of paying for their weddings).

         1. Fwiw you never know on this stuff. I married an only child whose parents really wanted to pay for things. My parents contributed a bit, his parents gave us a check, and DH and I contributed.

            My sister was given the option and she took a check, paid off a chunk of her student loans, and got married at the courthouse.

            My brother didn’t go to college and isn’t married at 38 but my parents bought him a car.

2. if one were concerned with looking on trend (increasingly it seems like any time anyone asks a question on this blog half the anons snap back with why it doesn’t matter and they should just wear what they want) what color jeans would you buy this fall? they seem to be showing everything from very light to very dark and I’m overwhelmed with options.

   1. I think lighter washes have been trendier for a few years now.

   2. I’m 47 and try to stay on trend, within reason. I prefer dark for the 1 day a week I can wear jeans in the office and for going out. But I’m liking the wider leg light washes for day-to-day.

      1. It took a lot for my eye to get used to me looking like an ice cream cone in skinnies. Having wide leg light wash pants would be another huge adjustment!

   3. I would do one medium light pair of barrel/boyfriend jeans and one dark wash pair of flares or bootcut. I would invest more in non-jean pants (wide leg trousers mostly with one or two pairs of tapered straight (not slim)).

      I know someone will chime in saying they see plenty of skinny leg jeans, but imo those are firmly not current in any wash.

      1. +1 to this and I’d 100% wait for labor day sales. I picked up the mid wash boyfriend jeans and 2 pairs of dark flares (one hemmed for flats, one hemmed for heels) last year and wore them frequently. Agree on my next pants purchase being a good pair of straight leg/slightly wider leg chinos in army green. Out of everything they’re reissuing why on earth can’t the gap bring back some of the 90s/2000s khakis they had, those were amazing.

         1. I was at BR Factory on Sunday, and I saw lots of chinos that looked a LOT like what you’re describing from Gap in the 90s/2000s. Might be worth a shot! All were high waisted, though.

            1. Good reminder that I probably need to just suck it up and try on a bunch of stuff in person (ugh).

      2. I think I need to look for more non-jean pants for casual wear. Have you found any favorites lately?

         1. I’ve gotten some good ones recently from Kut from the Kloth & J Crew Factory – both what I would call chinos (not sure if that’s the current term!) The Kut ones I got in sage and JCF in a light gray. I wear both to my pretty casual office.

         2. I constantly wear Talbot’s girlfriend chinos which I buy from eBay for around $20. Are they super high fashion? No. But they’re basic lightweight pants with a good cut, ankle length on me, and they work with all of my summer tops.

            I tried the wide leg linen trend but my eye can’t quite adjust to an ankle length wide leg.

         3. I am super into the Old Navy Stretch Tech pants at the moment. I have the wide leg cargo pants in a couple of colors, and also the high-waisted cargo pants with the drawstring at the ankle. I bought them for travel but I like them so much I wear them at home, too.

      3. +1. Just because you see people wearing it, doesn’t mean it’s current (or looks good). I see women at my workplace wearing those two-piece floral polyester blouse/skirt sets from the 1990s, unironically. That doesn’t mean I’m going to run out to the thrift and buy one for myself. “Wear what you want” and “don’t look like a time-travel refugee from 1994” are sometimes incompatible goals.

         1. I hate to break it to you, but time traveler from 1994 (and floral matching sets) would look pretty current right now!

            1. LOL, no. The new floral sets are not made of that scratchy polyester and the floral prints aren’t those weird swirly pastels. Haircuts are different, makeup is different, shoes are different. Etc. etc. Folks who live in a fashion time-warp are welcome to think “I’m so retro I’ve circled back around to being on-trend,” but that doesn’t make it so.

         2. Omg I had two of those – both in the 90s. Not going back!

      4. +1, this is a good combination of solidly everywhere and what you will want next year.

   4. Truly, I think it comes down to personal preference. But on the trendy people in my area, I’m actually seeing a lot of medium washes from Madewell and the like.

   5. I wear black jeans (faded straight-leg and still skinny/straight solid black wash for jeans to work.) I like Madewell straight, cropped boot and Levi’s Wedgie jeans (though not the 100% cotton ones-too right for me.) I tend to shy away from dark blue wash both bc I feel like they’re not really “in” and bc they seem to rub off more on boots, car seats, etc. I’m 39 and short, for reference, so jeans can be tricky.

   6. I prefer dark wash myself but am seeing the entire gamut from pale acid wash to intense overdyed blue-black. The cut seems to be more consistent, though. A looser leg, boyfriend cut or barrel leg, slightly cropped length or cuffed to a cropped length. I don’t see bootcut or flares at all in spite of marketing efforts.

      Skinnies are still popular I think that is a personal preference choice and not because they are current fashion.

      1. I see bootcut and flares on a lot of women in the soho area who all seem to work in marketing and dress super-on trend, and on teens, but no adult I know IRL is wearing them which makes me sad because they are my favorite. I have one pair I saved from when they were last in that I wear.

         1. Woops not OP of this thread!

         2. I loved and wore them in high school but this time around I cannot get past the fwip-fwip sound the hems make. They just read as juvenile to me (which makes me a bit sad if I am totally honest).

         3. I like gentle flares but don’t miss having to have different pairs hemmed for different shoes!!

         4. I’ve been wearing them in winter/fall with dressy sweaters/slinky blouses and pointy toed shoes, they also look great with my blazers that I’m not wearing as often. I really like dark flares, a cowl neck shell or t-shirt, and a blazer with pointy boots for a cute fall look. If I can manage to find a replacement for my adorable black suede granny boots that died when I was a teen I will be SO excited.

   7. I want to look reasonably current, not like I’m chasing trends or “trying too hard” so I’m sticking with updated cuts in more classic washes. I purchased both ivory and medium-wash boyfriend style jeans for fall and they’ll look cute cuffed with sneakers or loafers.

   8. Question for those recommending boyfriend jeans. I love to wear my boyfriend jeans cuffed with sneakers in the fall and spring but have yet to figure out how to transition them to winter. Do you wear them uncuffed? Cuffed with booties? I wear sneakers almost exclusively at work and always seem to default to bootcut when it gets really cold.

      1. Booties, or really designer shoes knocking off Dr. Martens – mostly because my grown adult self does not want to face up to breaking in Docs memories of the 90s.

         1. Right – docs or blundstones.

   9. I feel like there’s a relationship between cut and wash. Here’s my personal matrix:

      Light wash is best in slouchy cuts, so full-length wide legs (even the wide leg low rise ones that are totally back), boyfriend styles, and late-80s throwback z cavaricci type styles with pleats, acid wash, foldovers, etc

      Medium wash is best for classic straight-leg and slim tapered cuts

      Dark wash is best for structured styles, like wide-leg crops, moderate flares like kick crops or baby bootcut, or barrel jeans

      Since all of the cuts are current, so are all of the washes. So pick the type of jeans you want and then select the wash based on that.

      1. I would also add that light to dark also parallels levels of formality. Aka, you will never make a light wash jean pass for formal in the office, but might make a go in medium and certainly dark.

      2. I like your system.

         I accept!

         1. So do I! Good analysis!

      3. Love this!

   10. My sense is that lighter will be preferred for fall for casual/day wear and medium for dates/work. I am not wearing light washes because I do not care for them personally but that does not mean they are not on-trend.

       I am seeing a lot of gentle bootcut among my (not particularly fashion-forward) cohort of middle-aged women in a major Southern California city, with the wider legs mostly being worn by the younger crowd or the very tall. I am a happy camper because that is what looks best on my body and I was sad to give them up when they were labeled hopelessly frumpy in the early aughts. I am not however wearing the adorable flower print, a-line dresses I saw at Nordstrom over the weekend. I have photos of myself in those (with Keds and a linen blazer) in the early 90s and, while that means they are due to come up on the wheel again, that feels like a trend I am too old to repeat.

3. For fashion inspiration, I’m really loving the Girls of a Certain Age substack. Kim France, former Lucky editor, and very much that Lucky aesthetic, modernised for 2023.

   1. I love it too, but it’s very much for “girls of a certain age” and more comfortable basics I’d buy than fashion.

      1. This is an interesting comment. I probably qualify as being of a certain age (42) so maybe I just don’t get it but what do you mean by “fashion?” To me it’s just clothes I see on reasonably current-looking people in NYC, which, much like with the home stuff she posts, you can actually see yourself buying since her business model basically depends on people buying the stuff she posts (and now on subscriptions). Day to day, I usually only see people dressed in a way that reads “fashion” when they are literally taking pictures of themselves on the street to post on Instagram or wherever, or – less frequently – when it’s someone randomly famous that looks super duper professionally styled. But “fashion” in that sense isn’t super useful to my day to day and I don’t think it’s because of age.

   2. Ok it’s mentioned twice on this post – what is a substack?

      1. It’s basically the blog of 2023, essentially newsletters, but you can read them in the app, google reader style. They feel delightfully old-school and way less toxic than twitter, etc.

         1. Most charge now for content, which is a departure from blogs where creators relied on ad revenue. You can usually read some for free and subscribe for the good stuff. I’ve followed my favorite bloggers to substack.

         2. Except you have to pay for them.

      2. Basically an email newsletter. I’m subscribed to a couple and just read them via email.

   3. I would love a substack about fashion but focused on slow fashion. Anyone have one to recommend?
      I can’t deal with instagram, twitter, etc.

   4. I love her substack and find her writing great but her style is very solidly not mine! Which imho makes it more fun to see what she is buying vs. my more staid staples.

   5. I ordered a sleeveless version and sent it back because it looked cheap.

   6. LOVE Kim and her co podcaster Jen. Anyone who hasn’t found Everything Is Fine needs to get on that!

4. I have $200 in credit to MM LaFluer from a return that I want to use for a new workwear piece. I’m average height and a size 16/18. I have two Sant Ambrose jardigans which are staples and a dress that honestly never worked for me.

   Given that jackets seem longer right now, would you get the Merritt or Woolf jardigan? I also need new work pants, do people like their pants?

   1. Similar size to you – more like 14/16 and the Merritt is a workhorse staple. I have one of the lighter neutral colors. Absolutely love it.

   2. I have the Merrit in XL and I feel very polished in it. I wear it to meetings/conferences.

5. I really like this, esp. the color.

   1. It’s really pretty. I had a hilarious moment when I saw the picture because I instantly thought WATERMELON! When I pored over my mom’s Color Me Beautiful book back in the day, watermelon was a shade that was supposed to work for everyone. I clearly absorbed the information!

      1. That’s funny; I spent the weekend looking at paint colors with a friend and my first thought was “Benjamin Moore Raspberry Ice!”

         1. an excellent color by any name!

         2. Ha, my first apartment had a statement wall (remember those??) painted in Raspberry Ice.

6. Financial question. DH and I each contribute and max out our 401(K)s.

   Our other investment vehicles are: 1) a managed mutual fund that usually performs at or above market return, 2) A brokerage account with buy-and-hold stocks, mostly indexed to the market (e.g. VTI, QQQ, Apple, etc.).

   Would it be worth it for me to open an index fund account (vs. the index fund stock) or should I just use my current investment options vehicles to avoid duplication? The way I see it our “higher risk” option is our managed mutual fund, and then we have more “stable” investments through 401(K)s and the current mix of the brokerage account. Open to other ideas, too.

   Other details:

   From what I understand, once we cash out on either the mutual fund, an index fund, or our brokerage account, we’ll pay ~20% tax on the gains.

   We do want to fully fund our kids’ 529s for undergrad in-state tuition and expenses (our aim is whether they do community college, trade school, or a 4 year university, that they work to pay for some non-tuition things, but we want to keep some buffer), but as is often mentioned here – that comes after we’ve made sure we’re on the optimal path for retirement and savings.

   TIA!

   1. I’d compare your brokered account to the index fund performance. Over time, index funds typically outperform those.

   2. You could check about what your 401k is actually invested in – just to make sure the asset mix is what you assume.
      Also consider SIPC insurance limits (similar to FDIC for savings accounts), and see if it’s just prudent to open a new account to split your business over different categories or financial institutions.

   3. This is a hard question to answer with the info here. Probably makes sense for you to talk to a fee-based financial planner who could help sort this out with the appropriate context or do some research about intro to investing (boggleheads, JL Collins’s Simple Path to Wealth, etc). You need to think about your mix of stocks/bonds (more important vs the difference between a managed fund and a brokerage account) and also what your plans are for the money. Good luck!

7. I know, I know, high-rise pants are not exactly new. I like that they actually stay up on my waist. But! Please tell me I’m not the only one who gradually gets more uncomfortable throughout the day, even when the pants fit well? I start feeling like my gut is being compressed. Granted, I’m now in my 40s and I swear my digestive system has gotten SO sensitive, but it’s really a bummer. I’m seeing why women hit an Eileen Fisher moment and start preferring very drapey cuts (which honestly look awful on me but at least they’d be comfy). I live for those slightly higher mid-rises but they’re hard to find.

   1. I only have one pair of truly high rise pants, and I dislike them for just this reason. (Pausing to say I would not have survived in any previous era with restrictive undergarments.)

   2. I hear you about the sensitive digestive system. Sometime in the last two years I lost the ability to wear clothes with a defined waist for 10 days out of the month. Anything that squeezes my midsection makes me nauseated and cranky. I haven’t gained weight, though my midsection is softer.

   3. I can’t do it either. Either the pants are so big they fall off when I’m standing or I have to unbutton when I’m sitting. I haven’t bought any new pants in several years for this reason. Very glad I’d held onto old clothes and am able to shop my closet!

   4. Totally. Bodies change with time.

      Yes, my digestive system is out of control. It blows up with a gas/food pregnancy at least once a day. Nothing helps except cutting almost all vegetables/beans etc.. out of my diet, which is not compatible with healthy life. Beano/gas-x/probiotics don’t help, but I still use them. And from my reading, trying to improve my microbiome by eating as many diverse plants as possible every day only makes me worse during the process that has no real evidence in support.

      It does really stink. It sounds like such a minor issue, but can be very distracting. I try to limit most of my vegetables to the evening, and only wear lounge clothing in the house.

      You can get high rise pants that have stretch though, and/or stretchy waists. For me they all require tailoring though because of my pear shape. And most stretchy fabrics do not tailor well, or just don’t have enough stretch for a spontaneous 4 month pregnancy. And if you tailor a pull on pant’s waist, you may no longer be able to pull it over your butt. And honestly… which waistline do you tailor too, as it varies by time of day.

      So I have pants like the Athleta Brooklyn pants (if you can call them pants). They have sort of a higher waist, but for me the waist is too big, so I let it flop around and mostly wear shirts that cover it or drape over my waist. You must become an expert in the half-tuck etc.. And then I am grateful for the extra several inches of space as the day goes on.

      1. I had the same issue (food pregnancy) and was put on a low fiber diet because for me the cause was delayed gastric emptying. The test was inconvenient, so I sometimes wonder if it’s underdiagnosed. They also tested me for SIBO which I had thought was some kind of functional medicine thing, but it was a regular university hospital GI department!

         1. Thanks for sharing this.

            I have debated seeing a GI just to ask, but so many people seem to complain of this and my PCP/GYN totally dismiss it that I wonder if most women have it and that’s why they all evolve towards Eileen Fisher.

   5. I am an hourglass and I purchased my first ever higher rise pants this past Jan (velvet flared pants from gap and straight leg black jeans from old navy. If I’m standing at work all day— which in most cases I am— I’m ok. The drive home however….not so great. They flatter me, and I don’t own many pants as I lean towards and love dresses and skirts. I have to have a stretchy and thinner fabric combination if a pant is going to be if even slightly high rise. I really prefer mid rise for comfort, though high rise fits and flatters me more. I will be avoiding high rise due to discomfort for this reason.

   6. I only get this if the trousers are tight to begin with, or if they are not high enough.

      My natural waist is very high, with a long rise, so normal high rise hits me below the navel and can get very uncomfortable. If I get actual high rise above navel they are comfortable all day.

      1. They could be a bit tight, though they stretch. For gap, I have to try on in store as there is so much variation between the same size. I made the mistake of trying those higher rise pants in store, and then ordering the other colour way on line, so perhaps they are slightly tighter…though there is one inch when I stand. I will be more careful with assessing my waist/ rise next time for sure!

8. I am looking for a small bag with space for my phone and epipen (that’s important!) to take with me on runs/outdoor exercise.
   I’ve had a belt bag (bum bag/fanny pack, whatever you call it), but don’t like that I seem to never get it tightened in the right way, it’s either moving around or is too constricting.
   Does something like a bag worn on the upper arm exist, that is comfortable?

   Open to any and all suggestions.

   1. Arm band for your phone, and put the EpiPen between the band and your arm. I do this all the time and it works fine, even for sweaty half marathons.

   2. There are arm bands for phones. I just use a flip belt when I run and it can easily fit a water bottle so it should be able to fit an epipen.

   3. I have a Flip Belt that I slip my phone and key into when I go on walks. I think an epi pen would fit?

   4. flip belt, assuming you can get the epipen in there in a way that won’t stab you. If that won’t work, spi-belt. It bounces way less than other fanny packs and is made for running.

   5. I’m obsessed with my Nike slim waist pack. It’s less bulky than true belt bag. I don’t feel it at all.

   6. Flipbelt

   7. FlipBelt. It will hold all that and not move.

   8. I am a runner and I could never find an arm band that works for me. Instead I have a flat wallet holder type bag (MAXTOP slim running belt on the river site) with a reflective stripe on it – it buckles at the waist with a plastic buckle. I wear it around my natural waist and that seems to keep it from moving around.

   9. I really like a safety vest with a pocket for this. They carry more than a belt, don’t squeeze or rub your middle, and also offer reflective strips for greater safety at night.

   10. My middle schooler needs an epi. Do you worry about overheating your epi while running? I’m really nervous about the epi losing efficacy based on heat exposure during the summer.

   11. I’ve used a flip belt for this. This brand tends to not bounce around as much as others. I run often, so I asked my allergist for Auvi-Q if they have any of those rebates to bring the price down since that is way easier to store on runs and in bags than the bulky epipen.

   12. Oiselle makes a line of shorts and tights (the “pocket” style, is what I’m thinking of, but there may be others) with a zippable waist pocket and a pocket along the leg. Both pockets have worked well for me to run with a phone and snacks. At least one of the pockets should be big enough for an Epi/shouldn’t bounce.

       1. I have also been trying to move more towards pants or shorts with pockets, as I find they bounce less than an external bag (more for phone; I don’t have an epi pen). Some brands to try including Sweaty Betty, New Balance, Oiselle as mentioned above. Also I have a pair of run shorts that are Flip Belt brand and have the belt built in to the shorts waistband.

9. At your work, are there norms around copy-pasting exact text from others?

   I work with a guy who on sometimes takes my exact words, from a team chat and passes them on to others without attribution and without running that by me. Sometimes he gets the context wrong (like Team A asks me for advice on my area of expertise for their project; and he sends it along unedited to Team B, but it doesn’t make sense for their project); and sometimes I just feel like he’s taking credit for my ideas to executives. Tricky thing is, he’s in a project management role, so it is part of his job to bring together updates from multiple teams and handle internal comms and stuff.

   He is a massive Chadwick in other ways that really get under my skin, so I’m not sure I trust my judgement on how to handle him – so Hive, do I have standing to tell him to knock it off?

   1. If it’s his job to provide updates, I generally don’t see the issue with copy + paste. But if he’s getting the context wrong or giving incorrect information by doing this, I’d call him on that. Also if they’re new ideas instead of simple updates, that feels different.

      1. If he gets it wrong, it’s also easier to claim ownership without getting into petty territory.
         ‘Chadwick, when I wrote this, it was meant for xyz context. It won’t apply in abc case, because…’

         1. I think this feels like the right balance – I can call out the individual context problems without it looking like a power struggle. Thank you!

   2. I think that’s at least a bit odd – if it was something really routine I might copy/paste but usually I would forward the slack message or link to it or something like that.

   3. Only bad project managers do this. Copying and pasting without giving you credit is basically plagiarism. More importantly it means he’s not aware of what’s happening on the project or doesn’t understand what you told him.

      How senior is he and how much pull do you have? TBH I have little tolerance for this. The next time he gets something wrong I would message him on the side. Ask if there’s a better way for you to communicate your updates because you noticed he tends to copy and paste your responses, and the context is off.

      1. I just don’t think this is true. There are plenty of contexts where copying and pasting is appropriate and it would look really weird to get worked up over it.

         The context part is important and I think OP should speak up about that.

   4. In my office the copy-paste part would not be an issue at all, but the wrong context bit would be huge and he would be destroying his own reputation by doing that repeatedly.

      1. Yeah, as I think through it, the more “formal update” it is, the less weird it is : it’s very typical for us to eg. send slides to a PM to be used exactly as is. The parts that feel off to me are the context switches – for example, copying something I sent to a small team chat of the few people working on this day-in, day-out so I know they know all the background, over to our c-suite exec with no other background. Or sometimes I’ll share in-process, unconfirmed results with the small-group team; and then find out weeks later that they got to some execs in raw format, when we needed some strategy around the comms.

         In terms of capital – we are of the same seniority, in different management lines. I have a very strong reputation with senior leadership, but … the company’s kind of an old boys club, and he definitely fits into that culture. Plus, I’ve seen him straight up lie to throw peers and underlings under the bus – so I am very cautious about bringing up issues with him to my own boss – basically only when I have screen capture evidence, and I frame it as “I’m confused about XYZ.. there must be some misunderstanding” not “Chad W. is sabotaging us again”

   5. My supervisor/lead attorney in our office does this instead of forwarding people’s emails to another group (or even copy pasting our email – both the content and the identifying information) into the thread with the other group. I do not know why and have never asked why. In my experience, it means that our clients do not know who is saying what and that I do not know which client said what. Any interpretation – especially from leaders who do this and can provide a benign explanation – welcome.

      1. In my experience, people usually do this when every person on the chain doesn’t need all the extraneous info. If you forward a bunch of emails, people are wading through the chain to get to the important part. Same if you copy and paste a whole email, including sender info. It’s way more efficient to just copy + paste the updates into one thread.

         1. Without attribution?

            1. Sure— it’s a team effort, and I’m not sure why it’s helpful to the client (who doesn’t know all the names of all the associates) to have an email with Joe says X, Miranda says Y, and Laurie says Z, when they could have an email that says XYZ.

               There are partners who hoard work and don’t want the client to know who anyone else is ever, but there are also lots of innocent explanations for this (one of which I provided). I’ve been on the associate, partner, and client sides of these communications BTW, and I just really don’t think there’s anything wrong in most cases.

10. What are your favorite Yoga YouTube videos? Other than Yoga by Adrienne?

    I am looking for a good yoga video to be my every-morning warm-up/stretch/core strengthening routine.

    I have been watching Yoga by Adrienne, but I’d like someone who “chats” less, if you know what you mean. I want to just go through the routine. I’ve only been doing yoga for a few months, so I appreciate someone who explains the routine as they go through it a little.

    What is the routine that you like to do in the mornings?

    I’m envisioning ones with sun salutations etc..

    1. Check out the Pocket Yoga app. When I was starting out with yoga I used that instead of YouTube videos. I really liked the prebuilt practices and that it was simple directions.

       I do like YouTube and peloton yoga classes however for the morning, you just want something that’s easy to repeat and I agree that the chattyness is annoying to listen to again and again when you just want a morning practice.

    2. FitnessBlender now has new instructors for yoga. However most of them may be under the paid FB Plus membership.

    3. It’s neither on youtube nor free, but DownDog Yoga is the only app I actually pay for (you can play on a web browser–I connect my laptop to my tv for the videos). It is just this-flow without chatting, and very customizable on length, type of flow, target areas, etc. It’s not that expensive, either–maybe $35 for the year? (cheaper if you purchase on the website than through apply or google store, I think)

    4. Sarah Beth Yoga. Her routines are voiced over, very little chat, just the next movement and a little bit about it. Most of her stuff is in her app, but there are several on YouTube as well.

    5. Thank you everyone! I will check out all of these.

11. Anyone has experience in US tax implications of being gifted foreign real estate/transfer from parents abroad?

    I reside in the United States. My parents (mid-60s) live in a European country, and own a house there, fully paid off. As part of their estate/end-of-life planning, they want to transfer ownership of the house to me and my sibling (in their country) in the next year. A notarized contract will be set up so they will have the right to live there as long as they are able to and they will bear all expenses. In parents’ country, this transfer of ownership/gift is not a taxable event, per se. (But in case parents need government-subsidized nursing care within 10 years of the transfer, the government can check whether there was a transfer of an asset and its value counts against the government support, if I understand it correctly – this is why my parents want to do the transfer early, hoping they won’t need high-level care in the next 10 years.)

    I am trying to figure out whether the gift/transfer of the house is creating any tax implications in the US in the short-term. Normally, you do not have to report international real estate assets on your taxes unless it generates revenue (e.g. rental real estate, which we also own). I am aware that cash gifts in the US are reportable, that there are annual limits and a lifetime allowance. But as real estate valuations aren’t standardized globally, what about real estate gifts/transfers abroad?

    My limited search results lead me to believe that there is no immediate income with the transfer, hence no reportable event, but any pointers would be helpful.

    1. This is not a question you want to crowdsource an answer to, even on a blog full of lawyers. This is coming perilously close to asking for free legal advice, IMO. Call an attorney and possibly also an accountant and get a real answer from a professional you can rely on to help you if something goes south with this transaction.

       1. +1 you need an attorney

    2. Talk to a tax attorney about this. This is not advice to get from the internet.

    3. Hire a lawyer

    4. You need a lawyer and your parents need lawyers in the country they are in. International tax law is way too complicated to figure out on your own, and I say that as an estate planner who has tried to figure out a few international tax planning issues and felt way over my head. Hire the lawyer, it will very likely pay off in this situation.

    5. You probably would need to file a 3590, I think for the asset transfer itself, and then you might have to file FBARs for any foreign bank accounts. And then you would have to declare any income. We are settling a foreign estate for an Inlaw right now, and it’s been an absolute nightmare. I am doing everything I can to settle the estate in cash so that we are no longer part of the real estate.

    6. Thanks, I am aware that this is a complex topic. We have worked with tax accountants claiming to be knowledgeable about international taxes, but found we had to do most of the research ourselves anyways.

       Any pointers to firms/attorneys in this area?

       1. What’s the answer if the property were in the US? I suspect it may be similar, the main difference being that appraisals aren’t exactly as standardized but that would only come up if someone takes issue with the reported value, which doesn’t normally happen. Obviously talk to an accountant who knows these issues, but when we had a similar issue crop up with an inherited property (years ago, fwiw), it was just a matter of self reporting on the taxes the difference from when we inherited, which was within the non taxable allowance, and the amount sold for.

       2. The poster above. We used Day Pitney out of Miami and we’ve been happy with them. Then they helped us engage local counsel in the other country to replace the very terrible counsel that our in laws had been using.

       3. To what area are you referring?

          1. Sorry, I didn’t realize you meant topic as opposed to geographic area. Never mind!

    7. Look at form 3520 and get counsel who work on international tax and estate planning (both in US and in the foreign country).

    8. In the US, gifts aren’t taxable to the recipient— the obligation to report and pay any taxes sits with the giver not the recipient. (NB I think Maryland’s state level tax might be an exception here.) I’m no tax expert, but I’m not seeing how receipt of a foreign asset from a non-US taxpayer would change that basic premise.

       It sounds like your parents have decent advisors themselves, maybe those advisors would have a recommendation for someone who can help you? Or, is there a local organization in your city for expats from your parents’ country? If so, you might be able to get a referral there?

    9. No US gift tax implications for your parents, assuming they are not US citizens or residents. You will be required to file Form 3520 to report the gift from a foreign person (no tax due, just a reporting requirement) if the value of the gift exceeds $100,000.

    10. Thanks everyone. Still in the stages of research, so the pointers towards IRS forms and possible next steps are helpful. Will definitely talk to an attorney about this, but knowing some of the relevant terms and phrases helps.

        Sibling and I are not planning a sale of the house in the near future, as our parents will still live in it for, I hope, the next 2 decades. And we do not expect to inherit any other significant assets like cash beyond the taxable limits, as we have agreed that my parents will use their savings for whatever repairs are needed on the house and their own living and care expenses.

    11. You didn’t ask this too, but if there is a 10-year lookback, it would be wise to consider putting the house in a trust and talk with the estate planning attorney as to whether it should be transferred, now, at death, or another time that is more advantageous. Sometimes pre-death transfers are a landmine and post-death makes things much simpler. Is there a specific reason they want to transfer it now, other than it’s part of planning. I would investigate this in-depth before trying to optimize how to do something that may not be optimal, if that makes sense.

12. Suggestion for anyone who is thinking about their style/how to go about buying new clothes/filling in gaps in their wardrobes. The ‘Unflattering’ substack by Darcy Gillespie has SUCH a good issue on it today that gives great, very reasonable and concrete tips on how to start figuring out your style and how to approach shopping in your given budget.
    I’ll also make a plug for closet purges this time of year – lots of new grads are looking for work clothes and accessories which can be a huge financial burden (it was when I was 22 and working at a bank that required suits but didn’t pay all that well). Our neighbors had a BBQ and I was talking to their niece who had just graduated and mentioned she needed to buy suits/a laptop bag for her new job. I had 2 extra laptop bags collecting dust and offered them to her – she was SO happy and dropped off a really sweet thank you note later. I also took over some old work clothes/heels to the local community college – they have a ‘store’ where students can borrow interview clothes from and they are always appreciative of new donations.

    1. I like your strategy of giving things away. I have been doing this recently and it is really lovely to see people who are happy to have your things.

       I also use Freecycle a lot.

       I also ask for things sometimes on Freecycle. Like when I decided to try yoga, I just went on Freecycle and asked if anyone had an extra yoga mat. You know there are tons of unused yoga mats out there…. and knowing me, maybe I wouldn’t like yoga and would quit. Someone offered me a free mat within a few hours. She even asked me what color I wanted (!).

    2. I’m really like Allison Bornstein lately for fashion advice. Her “three words” idea has really resonated with me, I like the way she approaches closet clean outs, and I love her idea of shopping from what you already own.

       1. Checking this out! Thank you.

       2. What is the “three words” idea?

    3. Dress for success is really good for this. You can google to find a local drop off.

13. I got asked on a date!! Brother of an acquaintance. I don’t think I really want to go – am still feeling a bit raw about the whole divorce thing – but it feels really nice to have been asked. That’s all, just wanted to share.

    1. Consider it good practice!

       1. +1 go and consider it a practice run!

    2. Go anyway! You don’t have to marry him, just go have fun meeting someone new and trying a new bar or restaurant.

       1. +1 You have no obligation to stay a certain amount of time, do any particular thing, or ever see this person again.

    3. Absolutely go on the date

    4. Glad you feel good about it.

       And as someone who waited over 2 years to go on a date after my divorce, you have my blessing to NOT go. Sometimes you simply know you’re not interested and won’t have a good time. Forcing dates never worked for me.

       1. +100000!

          We don’t know how recent the divorce was, and OP says she isn’t ready. I don’t understand why so many are saying she should respond to a man’s beckoning, no matter how she feels????

    5. Congratulations! I wish this would happen to me. Could you go and just think about it as being a friend, versus a date? Take the pressure off?

    6. Go! And remember, my motto about travel also applies to dating: The worst disasters make the best stories.

    7. Sometimes starting to date can be the perfect antidote to feeling raw – takes your mind off of the hard feelings and gives you an excuse to dress up / have a glass of wine.

    8. Go! Make it an easy simple meet up for drinks on a Sunday night. If it’s not great, it’s good dating practice. If you hit it off, set up date number 2!!

14. TLDR: looking for travel backpack recommendations.

    I take a lot of weekend trips where I travel by train, and I’ve found that it’s much easier and very doable to just bring a backpack for the weekend, instead of a duffel bag or a small roller. I’m currently using a random branded backpack that was shoved in one of our closets and it’s fine/gets the job done, but I want to upgrade to a sleeker/nicer travel backpack. The backpack would need to hold my iPad, two days worth of clothes, one pair of shoes, hairbrush, hair straightener, toiletries case and a water bottle. I’m looking at the Lo and Sons Rowledge backpack. Does anyone have it and use it for this purpose and like it? Or does anyone have recommendations for another brand/style that they like.

    1. Less elegant but I really love my Eastpack city bag. It might be overkill for 2 days, but it does tighten on the side to make it lower profile. My only complaint is that I’d like a chest strap.

    2. I have the Rowledge and love it, but it is way too small for me to use as a weekend bag, and I am a light packer.

       1. +1. I have a large Rowledge, and there is no way it would fit all that. It’s a great bag, but it’s very heavily padded for computers and structured, so it can’t hold anywhere near as much as I expected. But it’s the first bag for which I’ve gotten a compliment from a random stranger in the airport security line about it.

    3. Cotapaxi 28L

    4. I love my Rowledge and I think it’s perfect for that. I like having the optional organizer inside so I can take it out on trips I need a bit more room.

    5. Cotopaxi Allpa

    6. I have a Solgaard. I was sold on the closet thing, but I never use it. I just like that it opens fairly deep and has lots of pockets and is a relatively professional grey color. (My other backpack is an Osprey, which is fabulous but also hot pink.)

       1. The medium size of this looks very promising! Thanks for the rec!

    7. They may be too sporty for what you’re looking for, but we really like our Patagonia Black Hole duffles. They have nice padded straps so you can wear the bag as a backpack, but you get the convenience of being able to see/access your stuff from the wide zip opening rather than a top entry backpack. Added bonus: the zippered opening goes against your body when you’re wearing the bag by the straps, so it’s fairly secure in a crowd.

    8. I just bought a North Face Kaban backpack as a less-sporty-looking travel backpack (primarily for work) and Iove it so far.

15. Can I wear the Kork-Ease Ava 2.0 in soft gold on to a cocktail attire wedding in Oct? My dressy will be navy blue midi and flowy. I’m petite and mid-40’s. I just can’t handle strappy high heeled sandals and I plan to do a lot of dancing!

    Will post link in comments.

    1. https://www.korkease.com/en/ava-2.0-17795.html?dwvar_17795_color=Soft%20Gold

       1. i would.with the platform covers in shiny fabric like that it just squeaks by into formal enough.

    2. If you don’t care what people think, sure. I’d personally do real heels until dancing and bring along flats for that. Those just do not look dressy to me at all.

       1. yeah, they look too clunky to go with a floaty midi dress to me. I’d pick lower heels that don’t have a platform or bring a second pair of shoes for dancing.

       2. Agreed. These are an unattractive franken-shoe with the cork and metallic. Either wear flats or get comfortable block heels like these:

          https://www.dsw.com/en/us/product/naturalizer-bristol-sandal/486532?activeColor=252&cm_mmc=CSE-_-GPS-_-G_LIA_Shopping_Sandals-_-LIA_Sandals&cadevice=m&gclid=Cj0KCQjwz8emBhDrARIsANNJjS4fju8G9VYgiKqX6gBOjaTHduwF9rN8UbDGQtSAZZHOncVfLD2YJ3caAvx2EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

          https://www.dsw.com/en/us/product/vionic-rosabel-sandal/551610?activeColor=400&cm_mmc=CSE-_-GPS-_-G_Shopping_Sandals-_-New_Sandals&cadevice=m&gclid=Cj0KCQjwz8emBhDrARIsANNJjS6VgeMGmzmoGxlZ-yOlSIWFIUwTkXSdJYF5OjAyQMCV5cZM0JqgRnUaAkPeEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

    3. You could, but I personally would not because I don’t find wedges conducive to dancing and would 100% twist my ankle trying to dance in a wedge. They also seem a bit clunky rather than elegant.

    4. These read too casual for cocktail attire. I don’t think anyone will run you out, but it will be a dress code mismatch.

    5. I think it probably depends on the wedding venue and location.

    6. I think they look fine and that other people are genuinely not going to care.

       1. This is the real answer. People here tend to think everyone is as judgmental about other people’s appearances and clothing as they are. Which is not the case. Most people will not care, and if they do care if your shoe is “too clunky” for your dress – do YOU care what THEY think? I wouldn’t. It’s a cute shoe, OP and I might just get a pair for myself, so thanks for linking.

    7. You won’t be on the cutting edge of fashion, but I agree that the covered platform makes them passably fancy and nobody will care anyway.

    8. I think you will be fine. Are they the most dressy or elegant? no, but unless you are a member of the family, or will be doing a reading, you are a member of the crowd and guess what? no one cares! The metallic makes them dressy, so go for it.

16. Date format question. I am in the US and I no y work with US people on US matters for a US company. Why is some person in marketing telling me that I have to use Day-Month formatting vs Month-Day format? My clients know me. This won’t sound like me and TBH they will think I sound like I’m putting on airs or trying to be like Madonna and sound posh and continental but that couldn’t be further from the truth. Does anyone else have to deal with this?

    1. Well at least today no one will be able to tell what format you’re using ;)

       1. Ha!

       2. My husband is not from the US and we got married on 11/11 for this reason.

          1. Ha! Love it!

    2. Does the marketing person have any day in your actual work life? I’d probably shrug and continue doing things my way unless there’s a good reason not to.

       This can cause actual confusion if you are using numbers only. I used to work in an international nonprofit and we had a style guide with date format for this reason (we never ever used just numbers).

    3. Huh, I have no idea. I don’t think anyone will read to much into it along the lines of “you’re trying to sound fancy” but it’ll be genuinely confusing when it could be either, like 8/9/2023. I work in a pretty international context with people from both date conventions and have landed on always spelling out the month (Sept 8, etc) after seeing too many misunderstandings happen!

       1. +1

          I don’t care whether the day comes first or second, as long as you spell out the month in letters.

    4. They are probably trying to implement a style convention like using certain fonts to be brand consistent. I’d go with it, those things have reasons even if you don’t agree with them.

       1. To me, that is a know your audience thing and sounds tone-deaf. If it sounds like most people are used to month-day (“June 30”), “30 June” just sounds like it’s aimed at a wholly different audience abroad and people may be confused as to whether it is really meant to lie for them. “Brand consistency” should defer to the end reader and those closer to them. TL:DR: this is dumb. Companies are dumb and some deciders are too far from the action to make good decisions. Usually bigger companies have this vs smaller more collaborative ones.

          1. I agree if OP runs marketing, this is a point for her to consider. But if she just works there, her better bet is to go with the company convention.

    5. Is your marketing person someone who would be the authority on this, or is this person just making stuff up?

    6. if it’s just your personal communications with people I’d stick with US format. If “branded” external comms, I’d go with it, but insist on having the month spelled out, as in 8th August, to avoid confusion.

    7. You work in the US, not Europe, so I would ignore this person in marketing and use the US date format. Otherwise people will be confused.

       1. +1. The only time I see a different format in the US is yyyy-mm-dd when naming digital files so that alphabetizing sorts them chronologically.

          1. My office insists on a standard digital file name format that uses MM-DD-YYY…AT THE END and it is the bane of my existence

             1. Someone didn’t think that through lol

    8. I don’t directly, but I work with somebody who covers Europe and the US in the sales role, and it really does sound pretentious when he sprinkles his conversations with Europeanisms.

    9. It’s not really US vs. Europe, though, it’s the US vs. the rest of the world.

       Maybe the marketing person know that the firm are going to look for clients in Latin America, South America, the Middle East, Norther Africa, Australasia, Southwest Asia, Europe or even one of the countries which does year-month-day?

    10. For US correspondence only I use Aug-8-2023. For anything that includes ‘Rest of World’ I would use 8-Aug-2023. Everyone then knows exactly what you are talking about.

        I am from rest of world but have lived in the US for 20 years and my files are 2023 -08(month)-08. The US format makes a lot more sense to me. I also like the Texas ‘y’all’ and plural ‘all y’all’. The children know if I am talking to them singularly or them plurally in a way that ‘you’ doesn’t achieve. Sometimes America does things better…

17. Called my local major hospital and clinic network about scheduling an appointment with a psychiatrist. The scheduler said “we have no openings and no waitlist for new patients, so you’ll just have to keep calling until there’s an opening.”
    I found a provider on Psychology Today that seems to fit my needs and take my insurance, so I booked an appointment with them but the earliest is 6 weeks away. Like I wouldn’t be making an appointment unless I was really struggling, you know?

    1. You can try BetterHelp. I found a therapist through them when I needed some help earlier this year and got matched with someone right away. I wouldn’t say she was an amazing therapist (I had a really, really good one earlier in my life and it’s been hard to find someone else I like that much, TBH) but she was kind, and empathetic, and offered me some concrete tips on coping with the issue I was struggling with. And there was no wait time. Unfortunately, demand for therapy is far exceeding supply of therapists in a lot of places and so there probably is going to be a wait if you want to see someone in-person, locally.

    2. Reach out to your employer’s EAP. Most handle it differently, but will be able to get you in to see someone quicker than 6 weeks. The EAP really is an under utilized benefit.

    3. I’m so sorry. It’s really difficult to get in with providers right now, especially mental health providers. I’ve had to expand my search up to 2 hours away to find someone who can see me within 8 weeks.

    4. There just aren’t enough providers.

    5. Yeah, I hear you.

       It’s sad, but you are lucky to have an appointment in 6 weeks. I would keep calling every couple days to see if you can get a last minute cancellation, if you have the flexibility to grab it.

       Thanks for sharing how you found one.

       Only once we have an easier to navigate health care system, with less time pressure and less onerous insurance/billing requirements will more psychiatrists be willing to stay within the system. Now they are running like flies to private practice, with high out of pocket costs. There are a lot of wealthy people who have mental health issues too who are willing to pay the prices.

    6. Look for remote-only practices in your state. I found one that has specialized RNs (I forget the real name) who are supervised by a psychiatrist and this fits my (not complicated) needs quite well. I really like my person, see her every 3 months for a med refill during a 5-10 minute remote appointment and it’s effective and convenient.

       1. Great idea.

18. There was an interesting thread on the mom’s site yesterday about young athletes and helping them manage their periods and hair growth as they enter puberty so that they can continue to be active and competitive.
    Some of the commenters said that letting their child quit an activity because of body development was not an option in their family. I was wondering if this was a common stance, in your experience growing up or as a parent of older kids? And how did you navigate things? I wanted to ask here, since I think there seems to be a different perspective than on the mom’s site; many commenters here seem like they were very active in the pre-teen/teenage years and might have thoughts or experiences to share?
    As a pre-teen/teenager, I was never comfortable swimming when I had my period, but I continued to play soccer and badminton through high school. (I probably didn’t feel comfortable with a tampon until my mid 30s – I have very odd shaped anatomy and tampons were just painful and didn’t stay in.) My daughter currently refuses to go to the pool when she has her period, so I’d love to hear thoughts on how to encourage her without being pushy. Or if I should just let it go? She is active in other sports, I just know she used to love the pool.
    Also – a longer perspective question –
    Has anyone ever been glad their parents forced them to do an activity?
    Has anyone ever regretted that their parents didn’t insist they continue with something?

    1. I don’t think skipping the pool while currently on one’s period is at all the same as quitting the activity for good.

       1. For PE, I agree.
          But on swim team, I think they’re pretty much synonymous. If you can’t swim one week a month, they won’t let you be on a competitive team.

          1. In my required high school swim class, girls were allowed to sit out for one week a month. You had to bring your swimsuit to prove that you weren’t trying to get out of class just because you had forgotten your suit, tell the male coach that you were sitting out, and sit in the bleachers during class where everyone could see you. For the more modest and/or athletic girls, this was a powerful motivator to learn to use tampons. But I grew up in a place where everyone was in the water all summer and had mostly figured it out already.

             1. In my PE, you needed a parent note. I think you went to the cafeteria or something instead. I was very shy, but also very uncomfortable with the idea of tampons, so that’s what I did. It was fine.

       2. Skipping the pool during one’s period does = quitting swim team, though.

    2. Does she have friends she can talk to and see what they do/how they feel about swimming with period? Otherwise, not something I’d push.

       At almost 40, I regret not keeping up with piano. I was quite good for my age through middle school but, holy guacamole, it was an outright war between my parents and me to get me to practice. So, to answer your direct question: no, I do not regret them not pushing me harder. It would have damaged our relationship in a bad way. However, to answer a different question, I regret not sticking with it, but that’s hindsight for ya.

       1. Take lessons! It’s never too late. I took 20 years of lessons as an adult.

    3. I didn’t do ROTC and Peace Corps in college because managing my periods was a catastrophe even when on the pill (just made the catastrophe predictable). All that ever made a difference was staggering amounts of Advil, constantly administered. Otherwise: a week of heavy bleeding and clots, vomiting, cramps, and diarrhea. It was close to disabling. Glad I wasn’t a swimmer or gymnast because I’m also very hirsute, so complete misery in that area also.

       With my kids: you can quit some activities but need to do a 1:1 trade (quit violin for choir or tennis for track). But they are close to being Eagle Scouts so even if they wanted to quit that I’d decline given how close they are to being done with the hard work and then could just kick back and enjoy hiking and provide leadership just by showing up.

       1. This is shocking to me. I had absolutely terrible periods as a teen and young adult–soaking through a super plus tampon every 45 minutes, agonizing cramps, digestive symptoms, the whole nine yards. It never occurred to me that withdrawing from life was an option. I took the Advil, bought the stick-on heating pads, wore a backup pad with the tampon, and went about my business because I had no choice. Life without running water would have been challenging, but otherwise I don’t think heavy periods are an excuse to sit around doing nothing. I also had hair issues with ballet so I tried shaving and waxing. There are plenty of other things women are expected to do, such as working full-time while being pregnant and suffering from hyperemesis, BF’ing an infant while working, etc. etc., that are much more difficult than living with heavy periods.

          1. But you don’t really know that poster’s experience, do you? Just because you had a terrible time, yet “went about my business”…… does that mean every women is the same as you? The fact that you were able to go about your business means your experience wasn’t as the same obviously!. Same experience/pain/vomiting? Your distain and judgement in your post jumps off the page. Just… why?

             If you have cycles that inhibit your life that much, they should be treated, and investigated.

             I was found to have a uterine abnormality late in life, that explains a lifetime of GYN problems that doctors ignored, made me feel shameful about. I’m glad to know now. But every once in awhile I think back to how I was treated, and how I even stopped seeing a GYN because they told me everything was “normal” and they dismissed me. And it makes me so angry……

             All women should listen to the podcast “The Retrievals”. It is amazing how easy it is for doctors, and even other women, to ignore the pain/medical complaints of women.

             You mention that there “plenty of other things women are expected to do….” in which their experiences are still often ignored, minimized, brushed aside while they are essentially told to “SHUT UP” and stop complaining ….. by their doctors, and sometimes their families and friends.

             1. +1.
                ‘I faced similar issues but I made it through’ isn’t a good enough reason not to prevent preventable suffering by others.

          2. Sounds like you weren’t also passing out. I had no choice about withdrawing from life because nobody has choices when unconscious.

          3. “There are plenty of other things women are expected to do, such as working full-time while being pregnant and suffering from hyperemesis, BF’ing an infant while working, etc. etc.”

             This is a horrible attitude. So because some things in adulthood might be worse than a bad period, a teenage girl should suffer needlessly!?! God that’s toxic. Also fwiw, most women don’t suffer from hyperemesis (it’s a relatively rare condition and most women who get it get medicine that alleviates symptoms) and breastfeeding while working isn’t inherently horrible. For me, it was relatively easy and fun and if it hadn’t been I would have stopped…because quitting hard things is ok sometimes! You need therapy.

          4. As a teen I had period cramps so bad sometimes that my vision whited out to a blur. You can take several seats.

    4. I was a figure skater, so not the same level of difficulty as the pool, but my mom and coach supported by desire to not use tampons even though most skating girls did. I’m grateful – I was a late bloomer both physically (got my period at 16) and emotionally, and I think being forced to use tampons before I was ready would have been really hard for me. I think today high cut period underwear would likely be a good option but it didn’t exist back then.

       1. They even have “thong” style pads now.

    5. I was a little surprised by the intensity of some of the positions taken in that thread! I suspect this may be a product of tone and context just not coming through, but still took me back a bit.

       My kids are not there yet, but I can’t see myself pushing them to do any specific activity if they really don’t want to. Especially because there are so many other things you can do if, for example, your kid doesn’t want to do gymnastics or swim because of the issues discussed. Like, fine, let’s do ice skating or softball. My kids aren’t likely to grow up to be professional athletes and if they want to quit something for a legitimate reason, it’s fine with me. If they want to take it up again later, they can.

       For my own childhood, my mom really just encouraged physical exercise but didn’t care how I went about it. I wasn’t allowed to sit at home and read all day, but as long as I found something to keep me active, she didn’t care what that was, which I am really grateful for.

       Also, for the OP who posted yesterday, if you’re reading – I wrote back late, but check out the discussion of white Wimbledon uniforms for female tennis players from sometime last year, I think.

       1. I mean, we had a thread here a few years back where commenters were saying that a 12 year old girl who wasn’t comfortable using tampons needed to “put her big girl pants on” and that mom should essentially bully her into doing so. There is/are definitely one or more commenters here who, for reasons that are an absolute mystery to me, believe that it is acceptable to basically force a girl into using tampons.

          1. Yea it’s horrifying

          2. There was some of it yesterday too (maybe the same person?) saying a 10 year old is disempowered and afraid of her body because she doesn’t want to use a tampon immediately. Beyond disgusting.

             1. No, that person was saying that a 10-year-old will grow up to be disempowered and afraid of her body if her mother teaches her that her period is scary, doesn’t buy her a period swimsuit if she doesn’t want to use a tampon, and lets her sit at home doing nothing during her period.

             2. That’s an extremely disingenuous characterization of her (your?) comment. Literally no one was advocating “sitting at home doing nothing.” There are a million fun activities for 10 year olds that don’t require swimming on your period. If daughter wants to quit swim team and take up tennis or theater or music, what’s the harm? I think you should listen to all the adults on this thread telling you they were messed up by their parents not letting them quit things.

          3. I had many friends growing up who weren’t comfortable with tampons well into high school and would have been mortified to have their parents explaining the mechanics. Blows my mind that we would consider it empowerment to force it on anyone – can’t really think of a better example of when “good for you, not for me” would apply.

             1. I didn’t use one until college! My mom told me it was easier after you had sex, so I just waited until then.

       2. “My kids are not there yet, but I can’t see myself pushing them to do any specific activity if they really don’t want to. Especially because there are so many other things you can do if, for example, your kid doesn’t want to do gymnastics or swim because of the issues discussed. Like, fine, let’s do ice skating or softball. My kids aren’t likely to grow up to be professional athletes and if they want to quit something for a legitimate reason, it’s fine with me. If they want to take it up again later, they can.”

          All of this. Unless your kids are D1 college athlete caliber (which isn’t many kids), childhood activities are pretty fungible. I think some people have this idea that if your kid isn’t Very Committed to a single sport for their entire childhood, they’re a lazy slob who sits around the house playing video games all day. But there are a lot of ways to get kids off the couch and out of the house that aren’t serious athletics.

          I was also laughing at the mom who was insisting that if you don’t commit to a sport through childhood, you won’t be able to do it as an adult. I was not an active kid, but as an adult I’ve taken ballet classes, I sail and kayak regularly, and I just started playing pickleball. I did none of that as a kid! Life is long and you’re not locked into what you were doing at 15.

          1. This strikes me as a person who’s afraid to be bad at something. If I started playing tennis now, of course I’d be terrible. But maybe it would be fun. The idea that you have to be good at something to enjoy it is also really damaging.

             1. Exactly – and I think it’s great for kids to see parents modeling trying new things, and not necessarily being great at them.

             2. Or someone who is living their own ambitions through their children.

          2. Way more girls than boys give up sports, particularly ball sports, in their youth and never pick them up again. You can make fun all you want, but in this age of unprecedented mental health crisis in teen girls, it’s really especially important to help them through normal difficulties and do healthy activities like sports.

             1. But why does it have to be swimming? Saying “you must pick a sport to do” is a lot less problematic than saying “you must insert a tampon so you can do swim team.”

             2. I think forcing a kid to continue a sport she wants to quit would be way worse for her mental health…

                My experience (picking up new sports, or at least new active hobbies, in adulthood) does not seem terribly unique based on the adult women I know. I agree there are mental and physical health benefits to being active but you’re not predetermining your life’s course at age 10 or 15.

             3. It doesn’t have to be swimming, but in the example posted on the moms board yesterday, that was the sport the girl herself wanted to do.

             4. “it’s really especially important to help them through normal difficulties and do healthy activities like sports.”

                “Normal difficulties,” yes. Not allowing them to quit when they don’t want to continue the activity is something different, and an adolescent should not have to come up with an elaborate philosophical explanation for why she wants to quit something. Quitting things is okay. That’s also an important skill to learn, so girls don’t hang on through bad relationships, bad jobs, bad roommates, etc. Sometimes things don’t get better and the best decision is to quit and do something different.

          3. I also just want to remind people that even boring sit-at-home bookworms who play video games and watch a lot of TV can grow up into successful adults who have stable relationships, jobs and mindsets.

             1. THANK YOU

             2. Absolutely. But I do understand why parents don’t want kids doing nothing but video games and TV (I put books in a different category). It’s quite a leap from “kids have to do something active and/or mentally engaging” to “kids have to learn how to use a tampon so they can do competitive swim team.”

       3. Yeah, I do not get the “you will do this or else” attitude from some parents here, and I feel sorry for those kids. I think some of it is people living vicariously through their children, and you can’t tell me differently. If someone didn’t get to the competitive level they wanted in their sport, they see their kids as the avenue to “achieve” that, vicariously. It’s sad.

    6. I read those comments and my response was basically…it’s fine to say “I don’t allow my kids to quit an activity because of normal body development” until the rubber meets the road. If I have a 13-year-old who is on the swim team (which means team suit – period swimwear is not an option, at least not for meets) and she’s crying because she doesn’t want to use tampons, I’m not going to tell her that she either uses tampons or bleeds in the pool, but she’s not quitting. To me, that is an inappropriate use of my authority as a parent to override my child’s bodily autonomy.

       I never had heavy periods and so I was comfortable swimming on my period during the time when I wasn’t ready for inserted menstrual products (tampons, cups) but that was completely my choice. I was also a very active cross-country runner, and using pads in my running shorts sucked but wasn’t a huge deal. I have encouraged my daughter to consider all of her options when it comes to period products, including good guidance on how to make tampon insertion more comfortable, but it is her decision. That is an absolute hard line for me.

       1. This too. Some of it reminded me of people without kids saying their kids won’t be allowed to have any screen time. Sure, ok…

          1. My daughter was a competitive gymnast. At her club the moms’ answer to this problem was to advocate with the club management to let them wear shorts in competition in accordance with USAG rules. Problem solved, no one quit over periods.

             1. This is what moms (and dads) should do. Help girls do sports! This isn’t rocket science.

       2. Yeah I think I generally strongly encourage my kid to try something “scary” or “hard” *once* and if she’s not comfortable then to quit. But I draw the line at tampon use — if she does not want to try it (after a showing her what one looks and feels like, discussing of the mechanics and pros and cons, and period of time for thought), I wouldn’t push it further.

    7. I have a teenaged daughter who has done several activities and quit most of them. My stance is that there is no point in continuing with an activity you no longer love, but that it would be a terrible shame to quit an activity you still love over a distraction like your period or bad teammates. In those situations you find a way around the obstacle–figure out feminine hygiene, find a less toxic team, etc.

       I also think the period issue is a very important place for mothers to take a stand. Women have periods. Periods can be painful and messy. It’s a fact of life that girls need to face up to, and there are so many options that our mother’s generation and even our generation didn’t have as teens. My job as a parent is to raise a strong, independent woman, not a weakling who sits at home in bed crying for a week out of every month. If you have cramps, take some Advil and get a heating pad. If you have more serious issues, see a doctor and advocate for yourself until you have answers. If you have swim class, use a tampon or a cup or a period swimsuit. Get out there and live your life. Women in other parts of the world are still fighting for the freedom to participate fully in life during their periods. Our daughters have that freedom–why on earth would we allow them to squander it?

       1. This is where I fall. If a girl has horrifically painful periods, that’s an immediate trip to the doctor to figure out what’s going on so it doesn’t impact her life so strongly. Skipping swimming for a run-of-the-mill monthly cycle? Nope. It’s so sad to me to think of a girl giving up a sport she otherwise wants to do for that reason alone.

          1. But it is her choice. If you want to raise independent and strong women – women who will feel empowered to say no to things that they don’t want – you do not get their by overriding their decisions about their v*ginas.

             1. I don’t know how insisting that a girl make her own decision is “overriding” her decision.

             2. Yup

             3. I disagree. I think part of parenting is encouraging your kids to make better choices in difficult scenarios. This girl wants to swim and needs solutions to get there.

       2. Oh my

       3. I am really glad you were not my mother.

          Signed, a strong, independent woman (and mother of a daughter) and former national champion athlete who was allowed to make my own choices about menstrual products and never shamed by my mother as a “weakling.”

          1. Hard same.

          2. Where does this mom say she is not allowing the daughter to choose her own menstrual products?

             1. +1.

       4. I agree with your approach *for myself* because my periods were always uncomfortable, annoying, and embarrassing, but not physically debilitating to the extent that I’ve seen with some of my friends. If my daughter is like me, then sure, I will push her to take an advil and get on with life. But I’m not going to second guess her experience or force her into something awful if her body is not like mine. Of course I will take her to the doctor if necessary, but that has nothing to do with sports and everything with her not being miserable.

       5. Bravo to this mom:

          I also think the period issue is a very important place for mothers to take a stand. Women have periods. Periods can be painful and messy. It’s a fact of life that girls need to face up to, and there are so many options that our mother’s generation and even our generation didn’t have as teens.

          I played water polo in college, and swam ALL THE TIME as a child. Everybody figured out the period thing. Everyone. This is something that will happen…eh…monthly for about forty years, so sitting out 25% of your life is a real shame. There’s lots of resources out there.

          As a mom, I don’t want to raise a “sitting on the sidelines” type daughter because some stuff got tough. I want her to power through. Good OB-gyns exist to help manage things, whether that’s skipping periods or taking different drugs to help manage symptoms, etc.

          Not all girls need to swim. But all girls need to not grab their abdomen and say, “I opt out” a huge percentage of their lives. Not necessary.

          1. Naw. This is all backwards. Civilized societies revolved around periods (it’s spa week!) because women mattered. Why adapt to men’s world?

    8. I quit swim team in middle school when I got my period because I didn’t want to use tampons at that age. I honestly don’t know if I ever told my mother that was why I quit or not (though she probably figured it out). I don’t think it was an issue and I don’t regret it. I picked up another activity I liked more and had been wanting to do (horseback riding; I’m sure my parents wished I had stuck with the much cheaper swim team…) and I wasn’t an amazing swimmer or anything, so whatever. I still swim laps for fun (and ride. That stuck).

    9. Re forced activities: The activities my mother forced me to do were the ones SHE had enjoyed, so no. Definitely not a mistake I repeated with my daughters, which wasn’t even difficult.

       Speaking as a swimmer and former water safety instructor, I’d say let her choose. In her case, I’d feel even more uncomfortable if I were being forced, or gently pushed even, into it.

       Thanks for bringing this topic over here — I’ll go check the moms’ site to see what I missed.

       1. In this case, it sounded like it was a sport that the girl had chosen and enjoyed and the period was the only reason for wanting to quit. That’s a different scenario from being forced into a sport she never wanted to do in the first place.

          1. I was answering the “longer perspective question.”

    10. I commented this on the mom’s page yesterday but my parents were a “We are [MaidenName]s! [MaidenName]s don’t quit!!!” family and it was *incredibly* damaging. One of the things I feel most strongly about as a parent is letting my kids quit activities – for any reason or no reason at all. School and household chores aren’t optional; activities are (in our family).

        1. I technically quit school too (and have no regrets whatsoever about it). I see way too many people who feel trapped in their lives when they actually have options, and I think it was actually a great lesson to learn that quitting can be an option. I think my parents were transitioning away from the “this family doesn’t quit!” and “no one gets to say ‘no'” mentality that my dad especially was raised with and that clearly still burdened him even as an adult.

        2. The “never quit” thing is incredibly toxic, and one reason why women especially will hang on in bad situations (relationships, jobs, living situations, etc.) long past when they’ve hit the point of diminishing returns. We need to teach kids that it’s good to tough it out sometimes, but when something has become more about “toughing it out” and less about enjoying any aspect of the situation, it may be time to quit. Rather than saying “don’t quit,” it’s much healthier to teach kids how to evaluate choices and check in with themselves about – is this difficulty temporary? Is this something I really can change with effort or perseverance? Or is this an unrecoverable situation, and I need to quit, to free up my time, energy, etc. to spend on something else?

        3. Agreed. “We never quit” people are toxic. Life is too short to do things you don’t want or need to do.

    11. In general I would say if her period symptoms are interfering with her life then that should be addressed medically. Even (especially) if it means advocating for her with multiple doctors because so many of them don’t take women’s pain seriously. While that process is ongoing, parents should also advocate for their child to get medical accommodations at school and in extracurriculars. I don’t think it’s right to force a girl with debilitating pain to suck it up to go to school, that’s cruel.

        Swimming is tough though. Idk if there are period swimsuits nowadays like period panties? If she doesn’t want to swim for now then I would encourage an alternative sport instead.

        1. It sounds like the swim teams ban period swimsuits in competitive contexts, so that’s part of the issue (refusal to accommodate).

           1. I saw that in another comment too. I assume it’s a uniform thing? Also if it’s a completely different suit, I don’t know a lot of girls who want to wear a different suit than everyone else knowing that it broadcasts that they’re having their period. Maybe as period suits become more available, swimsuit uniform brands will carry period and normal options.

    12. I don’t have kids, but the idea that a parent would force their kids to use certain menstrual products or modify body hair IF the child was uncomfortable with this is pretty disturbing to me. Bodily autonomy is so important.

        I was also poor growing up, so I guess I have a skewed perspective. I didn’t get to participate in many activities that weren’t free, and sports were expensive, so my parents didn’t seem to mind when I wasn’t interested. Even with things I was good at but no longer interested in (band), they left it up to me. I turned out well and have no regrets that I didn’t spend years of my life doing something I hated and that I’d never be a professional at.

        1. No one was saying that parents should force their children to use certain menstrual products or modify body hair. What they were saying is that parents should offer all of the available options without telling kids they are too young for tampons or shaving, in case the child actually prefers those options, but also say it’s okay to keep the body hair or wear a period swimsuit, and encourage the child to keep participating in sports.

           1. This is the most accurate comment on this thread.

           2. Lots of people were saying don’t let her quit, which requires tampon use or bleeding into the pool since period swimwear isn’t an option. Which is very different than just offering tampons as a choice. I think everyone is in agreement that tampons should be presented as an option but lots of 10 year olds understandably don’t want to use them.

           3. Okay! I was responding to the question posted on this thread, as I don’t read the mom’s board.

              I do agree with the position you state— present all options and support kid in what they want to do and what they feel most comfortable with.

              FWIW— I have seen people here advocating for forcing girls to shave or pluck or use tampons in the past.

    13. My daughter wanted to use a tampon for the first time when she wanted to go swimming with friends and had her period. I talked her through it with the bathroom door between us. But it was her choice. I can’t imagine anyone forcing their daughter to use one. But we were never rabid sports parents. She was in a sport in middle & high school (varsity school team captain + club) and chose not to do it for college.

        1. Absolutely no one was or is advocating for forced tampon usage.

           1. Someone definitely was yesterday.

              “I mean, really, you all want your daughters to be disempowered teens who are afraid of their own bodies?”

              Mind you, this is about a 10 year old who is years away from being a teen, let alone an adult.

              1. In the quote you posted, I don’t see anything about forcing tampon usage. The commenter is allowed to think that it’s disempowering to not use them – but that doesn’t equal “you should force it.”

              2. It was in the context of not letting the child quit, so yes I think she was saying the child needs to use tampons. “Force” is a loaded word and I don’t think anyone was suggesting the use of physical force, but if you, the adult, inform a 10 year old they must use tampons, you are forcing them to use tampons.

              3. No, the thread repeatedly talked about tampons, bleeding through, or period swimwear all being choices. I think a lot of people are reading “forcing” into it when it was never there.

              4. Period swimwear is not allowed for meets and people pointed out that the girl might not be comfortable bleeding into the pool. At least one person was advocating not letting her quit despite that, which is effectively forcing tampon usage.

           2. I have seen posters on this site advocate for just that. There’s one in this thread, even!

           3. No one is talking about physically forcing it, but there are a lot of people in this very thread advocating for a level of psychological pressure that is not going to allow a tween girl to make a free choice about what she wants to do.

    14. I don’t favor not letting kids quit for any reason. There are lots of good reasons to quit, ranging from injury to it being a horrible fit. But quitting because of normal periods is not okay in my family. Girls and women absolutely have to become full members of society and sports offer girls so many wonderful opportunities to improve their self-esteem and body image. That’s not going away without a fight.

        1. A society that wasn’t sexist to its core would accommodate women’s periods and not force anyone to push through them, “normal” or not.

           1. Exactly this.

           2. Right. I understand that period swimwear is new and rules don’t change instantaneously. However, it would seem like an improvement in middle school swimming if girls were allowed to wear their team uniform or a black swimsuit that meets certain guidelines. For extra fun, maybe all the swimsuits for competition at that age level could come with an identical, period-friendly option. Girls could get both the normal and the period-friendly suits, or choose the normal one if they use tampons without a problem. They could even buy just the period-friendly version if they can’t afford two suits and struggle with tampons.

              Crazy ideas I know…..

        2. So you would or would not tell your daughter she’s either inserting something in her v*gina that she’s not comfortable with or she’s going to bleed in the pool, but she’s not quitting swim team?

           1. Tampons, period swimwear, or bleed into the pool, yes – three eminently sane, normal options. It’s very unclear to me why some commenters are acting like offering those three choices is some kind of human rights violation.

              1. Period swimwear isn’t an option for meets, though – so you’re saying “insert this in your v*gina or deal with the potential shame of bleeding in the pool in front of your friends.”. That’s acceptable mothering to you? Because it looks like bullying to me.

              2. Bleed on the pool isn’t an option….

              3. Then it needs to be an option for meets. Why not bring your energy to advocating for equity in uniforms? You’re forgetting that this was a sport the girl WANTS to do. Why not help her make it possible instead of just shooting down every option? A typical teenage girl would be way too embarrassed to advocate for her own uniform needs with her coach, but that’s what a good mother looks like – to step in and help.

              4. But an individual mom can’t change the rules for meets. The only options currently are tampons or bleeding in the pool.

              5. forcing tampons is wrong, period swimwear is often not an option (but perhaps advocating that it should me is really the answer) and bleeding into the pool honestly seems kind of gross/and i’m sure would result in horrible teasing and honestly, then i could see a facility making some kind of rule about that.

              6. Bleeding into a pool is absolutely not an option.

                 Blood borne diseases. Just absolutely… no.

                 I am actually amazed period swimwear exists that people would use without a cup or a tampon.

              7. How is bleeding into the pool an option? What on earth? Setting aside the potential health risks to the other people in the pool – that could be incredibly mortifying for a young girl. I agree with the poster that says this sounds like bullying your own child. It’s so sad.

    15. My mother was very restrictive and thought that teenagers shouldn’t shave or use tampons, which resulted in a lot of humiliation for me. True bodily autonomy is having access to all of the choices, and not having your mother tell you that tampons and shaving are scary while pretending to offer you choice (which is what all the moms on this thread seem to be doing).

        1. No one is saying don’t give her a choice to use tampons. The point is the choice is hers, and if she doesn’t want to use tampons and is embarrassed to bleed into the pool, it’s ok to quit. You seem to be projecting your own stuff on this.

           1. Geez, let her post.

              She is posting to share her experience.
              I’m sure there are readers can learn from it.
              I promise you people read this board, who wouldn’t dare post their true feelings/experiences.

              1. It’s off topic though. It’s too bad her mother didn’t allow her to shave or use tampons, but it’s not relevant to this discussion. Literally no one has suggested not allowing the child to use tampons. We’re just saying not to require her to.

              2. You missed my point entirely.

                 Have some sensitivity, eh?

                 There are many women reading this board who restrict their daughters choices… on both sides of the political divide and in all sorts of damaging ways. They needed to read such posts.

                 And we have a lot of readers who love to say, “while I’m a PERFECT mother… I would never do THAT….” but who knows what their daughter hears/what they are actually saying. Sometimes they don’t have a lot of insight.

                 Like you. From not understanding why the post was totally relevant.

    16. Regarding your daughter and recreational swimming:

        If it were my kid, I would encourage her to look at the wide variety of period products available – tampons, different size and shape tampons (the OB ones work really well for me, a person who doesn’t line tampons), discs, cups, and period panties. There are a lot of things available these days, much more so than when I was growing up. Even if she doesn’t like something the first time, she may want to have that option available later.

        That said, my views on quitting are informed by my super dysfunctional childhood and bully of a father: if a child who is normally inclined to see things through wants to quit, let her quit. If there is a commitment to a team, we can talk about what that commitment entails and when it is and is not appropriate to quit in light of that commitment. Otherwise, this was supposed to be fun and it’s not, so what lesson am I really teaching? Forced fun!!1!! What awesome parenting!!!11!

        1. Yes, OB applicator-free tampons are excellent for women who find tampons with applicators difficult or uncomfortable to use. They are much more accommodating of individual variations in anatomy. I think a huge part of the problem is that moms are squeamish about tampons in general but especially the applicator-free kind, and signal to their daughters that tampon use is scary or shameful. And the part about 10-year-olds? Well, if your 10-year-old is old enough to have her period, then she’s old enough to use feminine protection. It is a total myth that you have to wait until after you’ve lost your virginity to use a tampon.

           1. OK, we’re all bright enough to know that you don’t HAVE to wait on tampon use or that you have to wait until you’ve lost your virginity. Sheesh, that is ridiculous, and I highly doubt anyone on this board feels that way. I am not squeamish about tampon use in the least, but I would not blame my tween one bit if SHE felt uncomfortable with the idea. 10 is still really young! I personally had zero interest in using tampons until I was in my mid-teens, and even then, it didn’t go very well the first couple of times. I will give my daughter the full array of options but pressuring her into using a tampon is not it. IDK, I really don’t love the mom-shaming happening throughout these threads.

    17. I am very glad that my parents made me be active when I didn’t want to be. It gave me confidence when I didn’t even realize it. We had mandatory family outings in the outdoors that gave me skills in so many different sports and they have all benefited me today. I often meet people who say that they are nervous about taking up a new sport in adulthood and that is something I never, ever feel. Even when I’m trying something new, it’s like I can bring the confidence that I’ve adopted over this many years and just have fun with it. FWIW, I’m an average athlete and was never the best on any team.

    18. I was also surprised to see so little concern around figuring out the physical issues around some of the symptoms the mothers were citing. I got my period in 5th grade (UGH) and had horrific symptoms that were only controlled by going on BC pills relatively young. I found out in my 20s I have PCOS and I would have really appreciated having more information/guidance on that beyond ‘everyone’s periods suck, just learn to deal’. I also realized as an adult my mom/aunts/female cousins also have endo/PCOS and we all did think it was normal to be completely incapacitated monthly – which just makes me sad for women!

        1. Totally agree – we’ve normalized way too much incapacitation. In reality, very heavy or severely painful periods need medical attention.

        2. The “suck it up and deal” folks have clearly never dealt with medical issues that make periods a hellish experience. Screw them.

           1. No, they’re saying that hellish periods need to be taken seriously and treated medically so girls can fully participate in life.

              1. Mmm, most of us have plenty of experience with people implying that our experiences weren’t that bad. There was one poster above who advocated medical treatment, which I appreciate, but sorry … most people who advocate for “suck it up” are skipping right past the part where they’d actually believe periods can be that bad.

        3. A fair point, but on the other hand the only solution a doctor will offer is hormonal BC, which is absolutely terrible for developing bodies and brains. Exercise is actually beneficial for cramps, so why not encourage these girls to continue with sports?

           1. There are some terrible doctors out there. I also had PMDD which opened up some doors for me because a subset of PMDD patients do really badly on birth control. My doctor offered Deplin or methylfolate, zinc carnosine (because I was zinc deficient when tested and other forms of zinc made me throw up), and magnesium supplements (because I was magnesium deficient when tested) for PMS and PMDD. Really wish I had could have tried these things when I was a teen because they helped immensely. A lot of MDs are afraid to take approaches like this because the studies are small and there’s no FDA approval, but I’m not waiting around my whole life for the STEM community to start caring and start doing big expensive RCTs.

    19. Am I the only one who thinks period swimwear doesn’t work? I’m 39 and have a light flow but when I wear it it seems like I’m just bleeding into the pool and I’ve seen blood on my legs after getting out.
        I also don’t understand how it could work. Swim diapers only catch solids, liquids flow out. Seems like the same logic would apply here.

        1. Yeah, this baffles me too. It can only absorb a finite amount of liquid, and it’s going to be the water. I can see it at the beach if you’re not really getting in the water, but the pool? Don’t fool yourself.

        2. Agree, can’t see how period swimwear would do anything. And, I’m honestly grossed out by the number of people who are advocating for just free bleeding into the pool. I’m not sure what the answer is, but I know that forcing my daughter to use a tampon before she feels ready for that is not the move I’m gonna make. I personally was not comfortable with the idea until I was an older teen, and from what I know about the middle school girls in my life, most of them just aren’t there yet, either.

        3. I have never used it, but it’s not the same as a swim diaper. Most swim diapers are disposable, and they don’t have any sort of waterproof cover on them. Period swimwear is supposed to have a waterproof barrier on the outside so fluids don’t go in or out. Menstrual blood is also a lot thicker than water/urine.

    20. OK, if I were a 10-year-old who was on the swim team and I got my period really early and was worried and nervous about it, here’s what would be helpful to hear from my mom:

        “It’s going to be okay and you’re going to kick *ss the rest of this season. Here are the different options that might work – tampons, a period swimsuit, a menstrual cup or sponge, or bleeding through with a dark suit. You’ve got this and we’ll find a solution together. What sounds best to you to start?”

        Here’s what would not be helpful:

        “I’m so sorry. This is really difficult and hard and I’m worried for you keeping this secret at meets. Do you want to quit?”

        Sometimes the response that seems compassionate just increases anxiety. It’s like when a little kid falls down and scrapes their knee – do you rush over and start screaming and crying, or do you say “ouch, that was a big one! Let’s go get the Band-Aids and then go back to the park?”

        1. THIS.

        2. The mom was not suggesting the daughter quit. The question was should she let her if daughter wanted to quit.

           1. +1. I can’t deal with this conversation anymore. It has been twisted into a conversation that the original poster never asked for.

              1. She actually didn’t even ask about whether she should let them quit either. She asked whether people had recommendations for websites where female athletes talk about dealing with puberty and staying in their sports.

              2. …and then the moms on the moms board told her she should just let the kid quit because tampons are abusive.

              3. Stop. No one said tampons are abusive. No one used the word abusive at all. People said if the daughter is not interested in tampons, forcing her to stay on the swim team isn’t the best option.

19. Advice for clothing to wear at a Marine Shipping Industry conference in Italy in late August? FWIW I’m in more of a biology role that intersects with industry and will be presenting my research. My current plan was sheath dresses and flat sandals since it will be hot, is that okay?

    1. Can you tolerate block- or chunky-heel sandals instead of flats? They might read as slippers in Italy (or I could be way off base).

       1. (I meant flat sandals might not read as professional in Italy.)

20. Probably just a vent. I seem to be the only member of my extended friend group who wasn’t invited to a wedding this weekend. My text group with them is bombarded with pics and stories of what a great time they had, and I while I was a little salty about it over the weekend, I could deal. But today it’s all Anon, we missed you! Anon, wish you could have been there and I don’t exactly know how to respond without blowing it up. I have privately told a couple people I wasn’t invited…. The sister of the bride is in the text group so I don’t want to be super rude about it.

    1. “Emily, I wish you could have been there!”

       “Hey Sally, I wasn’t invited. Looks like you all have a great time and I’m super happy for the bride!”

       1. No need to even address the lack of invite. “What a beautiful wedding!” Is enough.

          1. But that’s the whole point of OP’s question? All these people think she just didn’t want to come, when it sounds like she would’ve liked to attend but wasn’t invited.

    2. i’d just say something like, ‘i wasn’t invited, but glad you all had fun. lets make plans to do x,y,z’

    3. I would tell the text group you weren’t invited and then immediately move on – like “Looks like a beautiful wedding! I wasn’t invited, and had a great time doing XXX this weekend!”

       1. +1

          Keep it simple. Say it once.

       2. +1 this is a great script.

          I wouldn’t worry much about offending or making the sister of the bride feel weird. She had no control over the guest list.

    4. You have three options. Ignore the comments. Reach out to each person who comments and tell them you weren’t invited. Or send a message in the group chat that walks the line between informing people and not seeming bitter. Maybe, “The pictures are beautiful! I’m sad to have missed it but I totally understand guest lists are SO HARD and not everyone could be invited. Glad you all had fun, so happy for the bride and groom!”

       My friend group has had this happen a couple of times in the past few years. It stings to be left out but it can be nightmarish to come up with a guest list everyone is ok with. What I’m not that pleased about, though, is when I’m not invited to someone’s 200-person wedding, but the following month I’m invited to their housewarming party and a few months later their baby shower, and we’re no closer than we were before the wedding. I know the events are different but my first reaction is that it feels a little gift grabby; like you want me to give you presents but you don’t want to host me unless it’s a potluck at your house? Idk I keep trying to presume best intentions.

       1. This is great phrasing.

          1. I would not add that SO HARD in caps etc… Sounds like you are calling out for an explanation from the bride. Keep it simple. I wasn’t invited is short and sweet, along with complimenting the pictures etc…. If the bride reaches out to you to explain/apologize, use your gracious response then. Rise above it. That’s what people will remember.

             1. +1

       2. I hear you on the last paragraph, but in case it helps you continue to presume good intentions: I got married 20+ years ago and still regret some people I couldn’t invite. Our invitation list was essentially drawn up 15 months before the wedding (needed to know headcount to figure out the venue). Many things changed in that 15 months as I moved cities, started a new job, etc. I can only imagine these last 2 years have been even more tumultuous for people your age than they were for me in my late 20s because of the aftermath of Covid.

       3. This is more than necessary. You can say “I wasn’t invited” and that’s not rude or salty or anything like that. It’s just what happened. You don’t have to bend over backwards to qualify everything.

          1. Erm no if you just say that with nothing else, it absolutely comes off salty, especially among a bunch of <3 omgggg picturesss!!! <3 type messages. Tone matters.

    5. “Thanks! Glad y’all had fun, I wasn’t invited.”

    6. Just reply “I wasn’t invited, it looked fun!” or something simple, factual, and neutral like that.

21. My parent rear-ended a vehicle in a parking lot of a retail store. The police arrived and took a report. No one was injured (as far as my parents could tell – they were both there), but only one of the two people in the rear-ended car came out of their car to talk. In any case, the other side hired a lawyer and the car insurance company is asking for authorization to disclose the policy limits to the other side’s attorney. Apparently, this information requires our consent. What would be the reason why we would object to authorizing this disclosure? In a court case, I’m sure the limits would be discoverable, right? So, I’m not sure why we should say no, but my parents are asking me for their advice since I’m the only lawyer in the family (although I don’t do litigation so I’m pretty useless in this situation). Obviously the accident was my parent’s fault so I’m not trying to get them to evade responsibility or anything like that – I’m just trying to provide full disclosure on what it means to authorize or not authorize disclosure of the policy limits.

    1. It’s been a minute since I’ve had to think about this, and without doing any research, my recollection is that policy limits are not discoverable. The theory being a jury should not be influenced by whether or how much insurance a liable party has.

       1. This varies by jurisdiction. Where I live and practice law, this information is discoverable (though it is not admissible in court).

          1. This! It is not admissible in court, indeed, the very fact that the other party has insurance is not admissible in my jurisdiction. However, the existence of any insurance policy, the limits, and whether there is a reservation of rights (although not the basis for that reservation) are discoverable in California courts.

    2. Your parents should tell their car insurance company they will consider the advice of counsel before making a decision. If the other side has a lawyer involved then the insurance company needs to pass this off to a lawyer (that they will hire and pay for). They’re trying to save a buck by letting their claims people deal with it instead of sending it to the lawyers like they should.

       1. +1

          Call your insurance company. Their lawyer will deal with this. Don’t communicate directly with the other car/lawyer at all.

          Sorry… I know this is stressful for you and your parent. Everything should work out fine. Let the insurance companies fight it out between them.

    3. The other side wants to sue within limits, and as close to the limit as possible. No, your parents should not give permission for this to be disclosed, and if it is discoverable or admissible in your jurisdiction, they can write up an interrogatory for it and get the answer admitted in court.

    4. I was in a similar situation (and at fault, very low speeds) and I agreed to share my insurance limit (which was high).
       The result was that the other side put together a claim for – surprise, surprise – the full amount of my insurance. They put in mental damage and all sorts of things to add up to the amount.
       They followed that up with a lawsuit while waiting for my insurance to settle.
       My insurance ended up settling for the full amount that was claimed.

       Bottom line, I dont have good advice except if your limits are high maybe there’s no downside to disclosing it.

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