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Anon
Could anyone who owns/has previously owned or hopes to eventually buy a second home weight in with your experience?
My spouse and I currently owe $230k on our modest home that is assessed at $430k. I’d like to purchase a vacation condo/house eventually in the range of $400-$600k. Our HHI is currently $220k with the likelihood of it rising by another $20-$40k. We are both 43.
Crazy? Unsustainable? Potentially doable if we rent out the vacation home for parts of the season?
Anon
I don’t know your math, but we have a second home and absolutely love it. We now split our time between our primary and second home. My tips are get something close enough to go regularly. We like to drive up for the weekend after work, and having it close makes it possible. My other tip is vacation renting it is more hassle than it’s worth. You would be amazed at what people manage to break, you can’t use your whole place because it needs to be renter ready, your neighbors will hate you, and it’s really tough to make any real money at it after property manager fees (almost always required), taxes, repairs, etc. if you have an area you love to spend time in and would adjust your lifestyle to do it, it’s wonderful.
Anon
Do you feel like it’s double the chores, maintenance, landscaping, etc. or do you outsource enough that it’s not a burden?
Anon
We outsource most of it, we have a gardener who does the yard and landscaping and a housecleaner who comes a couple of times a month. There’s also lots of handymen in the area for little maintenance issues so I guess we outsource that too. We got a great deal on our place and paid cash so the maintenance, taxes and insurance are all we really have going into our cost of upkeep. And we are there all the time so it’s never big chores if that makes sense. It’s a little more burden than having one place, but totally worth it for the value we get.
Anon
Same on the “there all the time” so no big chores piece. My heart really belongs on a lake in the Adirondack mountains, but it would be a 12 hour drive for us. We almost bought a place up there, but realized that we’d end up spending two weeks there every summer and we’d spend most of that time doing all the big chores that piled up over the year. My buddy who owns a cabin that is far away has said it’s hard because it’s his happy place, but over the years, he spends more of his times up there doing maintenance, less time enjoying it.
Anon
Have you plugged in a 7% interest rate into your math? Every time I look at this and the monthly outlay and furnishings, I walk away feeling like I couldn’t even spend half that every year traveling with my vacation and weekend time even if I went to restaurants for every meal. Not to mention dealing with maintenance items. I wish someone in my family had a lightly used house that I knew well that I could buy at a friends and family price, but that isn’t going to happen. And I have so much of the world left to see. All I can think of is if I wanted to retire somewhere, maybe buying the retirement house early and using it as a vacation house and eventually moving there FT and selling my current house.
Anon
To your point above, I’m the anon below you, and another part of the reason we purchased is that we expect to be able to use this place more as we slow down, and we wanted our kids to have a place they can use with their kids, purchased at (several years ago) prices. My mom’s family had a cabin, and it was extremely important to the family to have a place to gather and they still use it. We wanted something similar for our kids that we can start using today. But, I can’t overstate how much we really and truly value the outdoorsy lifestyle it affords us. If we just needed a break to recharge every once and a while, it makes far more financial sense to stick to AirBnb :)
Anon
How often will you utilize it? Do you have financing in place and know the rental rates and likelihood it’s occupied a good portion of the time for the type of place you’re looking for?
Anon
I think it fully depends on the rest of your financial picture. Retirement, savings, other debt, etc.
Anon
We own a second home that we use regularly, and I have so many thoughts. I won’t weigh in on the precise financials bc our figures are different, but here’s my biggest takeaway — Unless you are independently wealthy, a second house will be a drain on time/money unless you genuinely and hugely value whatever the second house offers you (i.e., if your most favorite place in the world is the beach, and you buy a beach condo, or you only want to ski, and you buy a ski condo).
Generally —
1) It is, absolutely and objectively, not as good as investing the money and letting it sit, but we are thinking of it as an investment that we actually get to enjoy. Had we put the extra money in the market, it would appreciate more, but we wouldn’t be able to enjoy it while it grows. Our second home will likely continue to appreciate (given past history), absent like a total and complete breakdown of our society as we know it (ha), but I really don’t consider it an investment, given that a sale would be taxed excessively and the ongoing expense (see below).
2) The upkeep expenses are a lot. I knew what the upkeep numbers looked like, but it hits differently when you are actually making the payments. It is a lot of extra cash on a regular basis, and it does keep us from other trips we’d like to take at times.
3) That said, we use ours ALL THE TIME, and it’s been a huge gift to our family. We live in a city, and it’s an hour away so we go every weekend, even when we have kid sports/activities. But think hard about what your family really *wants* — my family is a uniquely outdoor oriented family, and we crave time on a lake where we kayak, swim, hike, etc. Said under the cloak of anonymity, I know a lot of people who consider themselves outdoorsy, but we are genuinely and truly always happiest while engaged in an outdoor oriented activity. Before the house, we would cobble our outdoor time together, but now we just go to the house. I say this only because we really and truly crave/use the extra outdoor time that this house offers, but I don’t know if it would be “worth” it (see above) if we weren’t as oriented to being outside as we are.
4) Really understand the rental market before you purchase thinking you can rent it. The homes in our area only rent for a few days at a time, not a whole week, and by the time we paid for cleaning, we’d eat up any profit. I think short term rentals are much easier if you can block off entire weeks at time — the very short term rental market is really tough to manage.
Anon
Similar situation, agree with all of this. I think a second home is only worth the expense if you can easily drive to the house for a weekend or even a single day. It sounds obvious but remember that it’s not just the cost of your mortgage and taxes. It’s insurance, electricity, gas, water, internet, a security system (ideally one with live video that you can view remotely), landscaping, house cleaners, new furniture and decor, ongoing repairs… If this is a lake house know that boats are very expensive to buy, maintain, and store during winter.
AIMS
I think this is a good point. We’re in NYC and it’s popular to get a second place that is either in Upstate NY or the beach, which generally makes sense if it’s different (apartment to rural house, for example) and generally accessible (for my math that’s 2 hours and not much over; beyond 2.5 and it becomes hard to go frequently). Keep in mind that if you have kids, it’s hard to go every weekend when they are at the age of having weekend activities and bday parties.
I don’t really understand having a house and a different house somewhere that you use part time unless it’s a totally different location like a beach or for skiing, but that’s me. I wouldn’t rely on rental income to support this because I think it becomes its own challenge to deal with (you need a cleaning service, constantly have to move certain things somewhere private and inaccessible, etc.). Also, the rental market for this stuff has really changed recently (lots of articles about this). We have a friend with a lakehouse who made a ton renting it out during Covid and has only had 2 weekend rentals all year in 2023.
Anon in NYC
Agree with all of this. We are in NYC and have a weekend house in one of the places that AIMS mentions. It is great, and we use it a lot, but I wouldn’t consider buying a second house that we only use occasionally. We never rent it out.
OP- as for your situation, I cannot tell how often you intend to use it. Or how far away it is from where you currently live. Our finances and the costs of our houses are significantly different than yours, so it is hard to weigh in on the precise financials, but I will say that I would not do it if you cannot afford it comfortably without relying on the rental income.
Anon
+1 to “I would not do it if you cannot afford it comfortably without relying on the rental income”.
Anonymous
I don’t agree that only truly outdoorsy people “deserve” a second home. My husband is an indoor cat but loves staying at a lake house or beach house precisely because he can sit indoors and look at the water, and it’s a change of scenery from our suburban home. I am outdoorsy and enjoy staying at a vacation home with him because I can leave him enjoying the view and go paddleboarding or surfing or hiking, which I can’t do at home because I’d have to ditch him for an entire day.
anon
Yeah, that was a weird gatekeeping comment. Like, what’s outdoorsy enough? I consider myself outdoorsy and am happiest outside, but one of my kids is an indoor cat despite our best efforts. People are different.
anonshmanon
If we’re going to talk about ‘deserving’, then surely everyone deserves one roof over their head before people get multiple homes, no?
Anon
I can see how my comment was misconstrued — totally not my point! My intended point was to make absolutely sure that you really, really, really value whatever the second home brings to your life, unless you are so wealthy/flexible that the extra cost/time is irrelevant to you. For example, I am super happy to rent a beach house for a weekend, but I’d never buy one because I’d really resent spending all our time/money there, as I don’t really love being on a beach. That’s all.
OP is weighing the finances of this, so my intent was for OP to make absolutely sure that she values the location/activities of the second home or she will start to resent the mental strain (I have a spreadsheet to keep track of all the different contractors needed in two different locations) and the financial. If my family’s itch to be outside was scratched by the occasional weekend away, this house would feel like an albatross, as we aren’t independently wealthy and would want to put the cash and time we devote to it elsewhere, but because we place a high intrinsic value on its location, the extra time/money is worth it to us, personally.
Anonymous
FWIW, this is exactly how I read your comment.
AIMS
Who said anything about deserve? Did I miss it or is the comment you reference talking about whether something is “worth” it?
Anon
I don’t honestly see any gatekeeping going on here.
anon
There are like a million variables here. What do property taxes look like in your area? What are your other expenses? What will upkeep on the vacation house look like? Kids or no kids? What about other savings? Are you going to want to upgrade your current modest home? x 1,000,000
Anonymous
Yeah, I’m not really sure what OP’s question is. If financial, it depends on your DP. If you’re buying a place cash then that’s a very different monthly cost than taking out a 7% mortgage for 80%+ of the purchase price. If you need to rent it out, is there a rental market during the times you’d want to rent it, or are you going to have to rent it during the only good times of year? Personally I wouldn’t buy a beach house to only go in the winter. Then again if the house is part of your retirement strategy then maybe it makes sense to earn a bit of passive income and equity for now and then move into the house later.
Financials aside, people are saying ~2 hours is reasonable but that depends on a lot of factors. Is it a storm prone area? If so do you have the capacity to drop everything and check on the house every time a big storm rolls through? Do you have friends/family that you trust to carefully look through the house not just confirm yup it’s still there! How would you manage construction projects if something needed repairs?
anon
If maintaining insurance is important to you, make sure to talk with vacation homeowners in your target area about insurance costs and availability, including for things like flood and hurricane risks that standard policies don’t always cover. In my state, homes in some nice vacation areas are becoming difficult to impossible to insure due to increased wildfire risk.
Anon
+1. We sold a second home recently and the buyer had a difficult time finding a company to insure after the sale.
NY CPA
From a cashflow perspective, can you afford an additional $3500/month in mortgage + property tax + utilities + ongoing maintenance costs for the vacation house, so say $4500+/month? You have a relatively high HHI but we also don’t know your other monthly costs to say how realistic it is. It seems unaffordable to me personally without a lot of rental income, which has its own issues (constant maintenance/breaking things, cleaning costs, not being able to enjoy your vacation home at the highest demand times which is probably when you also would like to use it).
Anonymous
We bought a second home five years ago in cash. It’s about half the price of my primary home, but I’m not sure that comparison matters much. For us what mattered was that that money was just sitting in an account earning 0% interest at that time, and I was willing to take the potential real estate loss – which turned out to be a gain because of when we bought it – to have it sit in a house instead of a bank.
Anon
I posted above, we also bought in cash and initially just because we wanted the place and not for investment purposes, but our area spiked in value during the pandemic and after so the place is now worth double what we paid. Just a point for don’t discount investment value and think about it when you’re buying a place too.
Anonymous
I will second all of the people who say it needs to be relatively close by. Our home is a 59 minute drive from a major east coast city, and on the water and that is a combination that is really hard to beat. It really feels like we are going someplace different, but we can go there all the time, even for easy day trips.
Anon
We just sold our second home. Among the reasons were that we did not get to use it enough, and it is in California in an area at substantial risk for wildfires and mudslides. There was always a worry of something happening when the house was vacant, and a roof leak during last winter’s rains pushed us over the edge. Consider that possibility. I agree with others that short term rentals are not worth it due to the damage and losses.
Anon
I have had a second home for many years. What makes it worthwhile is location and initial cost. It is only 1.5 hours from my home so we can go frequently, even just for the day if necessary. Secondly, it was not an expensive place. It was less than our first home (which is also modest). This keeps the mortgage on the second home very reasonable and leaves money for repairs, maintenance, etc. This also leaves us money to take other vacations elsewhere and not have to/feel like we need to go there for every vacation.
This also allows us not to have to rent it out. I do not want to rent it out because I think the profit would be so little and I do not want someone else staying in my house. It is way more comfortable and easy to use not having to worry about when it is available, keeping it clean for renters, etc. I don’t think it would be the escape it has become if we rented it out.
Also, it needs to be somewhere you love to go. For us, we love the little mountain town it is in, and there is a ton of outdoor activity to do, which we love.
anon
My in-laws owned a second home for lake access. It was only 20 minutes from the primary home, so accessibility was no issue. And it was a dirt cheap property. What made it not work so well is that they didn’t have the time or inclination to do upkeep and would not outsource anything because, in theory, my FIL had the skills to “handle it.” Just not the time. You can imagine what happens over the course of 10-15 years if that’s your approach. Vermin, overgrown landscaping, plumbing issues galore. DH and I used the property quite a bit, so we felt obligated to help with some of the maintenance but it was way too much for us to handle on our own, particularly once we had kids and not many free weekends. When the ILs sold it, I was sad for about a day. We considered buying it because we loved the natural beauty but once we ran the numbers, we figured out quickly that we couldn’t make it work. Especially since we would’ve had to gut the place and basically start over. The buyer ended up bulldozing the place to build a new house. I don’t blame him one bit.
anon
Continued to say: We were spending more time trying to fix the place than using it for recreation. That really sucked. We have good memories from the early days of lake cabin life, but it did make us rethink whether we wanted that second home someday. If we ever do it, we will have to plan on outsourcing maintenance.
Anonymous
I won’t speak to the affordability aspect; I own no houses so I defer to those that do.
My parents inherited a shore house that has been in my family for generations. While I don’t own the house, we all help out with maintenance equally. We are fortunate to not have a mortgage on the house, which substantially helps with affordability. However, we still rent the house out for about 6 weeks of the year (to cover maintenance, taxes, utilities).
Our house is 130 years old, so while there’s always something to do we don’t find the maintenance unreasonable. We do have a lawn service to cut the grass but we do the vast majority of other maintenance ourselves. We are a pretty handy family: even minor carpentry, plumbing, and welding is DIY.
Our house is not winterized; it takes about 3 days to open the house (including some maintenance) and usually 1-2 days to close it down. The first month or so it’s open we’ll work on projects when we’re there, but usually they’re not all day.
Usually, we open the house at the end of April and close it in mid October. We rent it for about ~6 weeks in July and August. The rest of the time we use it ourselves.
Our house is large enough that we have enough space to have guests, which is fun. Our house is ~90 minutes from the city we all live in which makes a huge difference. I frequently drive up Monday morning and go straight to work; much further and that wouldn’t be doable. My preference is to be there Thursday night – Monday morning (wfh there on Friday), but it’s close enough that if I have something Saturday night it’s easy to come down Sunday morning for a 20 hour trip. We are also only one block from the beginning of town and one block from the beach. It’s a perfect location on the island, which helps. I’d hate to drive to my house only to have to drive to the beach too. Once we get to the house, we don’t have to get in the car at all.
While renting can certainly be a pain, it’s more lucrative and less annoying for us than it seems to be for other commenters. We handle all of the renting, cleaning , and changeover ourselves which means there are no fees. We used to list the house on VRBO, but now it’s all repeat renters or word of mouth, so truly no fees. We only rent to families, so it’s not at all a party house.
The biggest PITA is that since we do it all ourselves, someone has to go down every weekend to clean / greet the new renters. We rotate, so it’s not a huge burden to do it 1-2x a year. It’s in the contract for renters to leave the house as clean as it was when they started their week. Of course, it rarely is but 8/10 times it’s clean enough it only takes an hour to get ready. If someone leaves the house a mess, we do not rent to them again. We have found that meeting the renters at the start of the week helps; they definitely seem to leave it in better condition when they feel like they know us.
We also rarely have things break (and most things that break do seem to actually be because they wear out). We have sturdy furniture, only a handful of tchotchkes and pretty much keep it simple. There is literally nothing fancy in the house, so if it breaks it breaks.
Renters always seem to be moving furniture or changing where things are kept in the kitchen. It’s a massive PITA. We get really annoyed by it since it is our home. They also never seem to water our poor flowers. Otherwise, we don’t have many renting problems.
Sybil
Do you ask them to water flowers? Just curious because that would truly never occur to me.
Anonymous
We do!
It’s not a huge deal if they don’t (we water them really well when we clean and hope it rains during the week), but the mental disconnect of people knowing there isn’t a gardener, seeing the flowers, not watering them, and then mentioning to us that they’re dying is comical.
We’re also one of the more “rustic” houses in town (so not gardener) but our prices totally reflect that – we charge about 1/3-1/4 of what other similar houses in our town charge. We could hire someone to come water the flowers but then we’d have to charge more.
Senior Attorney
To call it a “second home” is probably dignifying it overmuch, but my husband owned a 1/3 share in a small ski condo until recently. It was an 8 hour drive away, and it was too small to host overnight guests, so we only used it a handful of times in the five years he owned it while we were married. So I second the commenters who suggest that a second home should be close enough to get to easily. Also make sure it’s big enough for kids/guests because for me that’s the whole point.
Anon
Yes! My parents house sleeps 18 in beds (and we’ve gotten about 25 using the couches / air mattresses). Most weekends we have a fun mix of my parents, me, my sister, some members of our extended family, my parents’ friends / family friends, my friends and my sister’s friends. It’d awesome!!!
And it’s 1.5-2 hours from where we all live full time.
Anon
I am single and similar HHI to you.
I just rented a place on airbnb for a month (am working from here). I have run the numbers, and I could either save for retirement, or pay a 2nd mortgage. Paying a second mortgage is a lot in a snowy area where you have to factor in leaks, snow intrusions, plowing and other maintenance if it’s a house, or high HOA fees, if it’s a condo.
Doing a longer airbnb like I’m doing is fantastic. I will likely do this twice a year and it’s far, far cheaper than owning. If you pick a nicer airbnb, it’s NBD.
Explorette
I have a second home in a resort town, and I wish I didn’t. Second all the comments about how it needs to be close enough to easily get to on the weekends. Mine is 2 hours away, and there are times when I feel like that is too far to go.
Other considerations: if you have a second home, you will not travel anywhere else. You will be spending a lot of money to have this home, so going to another location and paying for a hotel room is going to feel unreasonable. And, because you are paying for it, you will feel like you need to use it as much as you can.
You are doubling your household chores. Unless you can afford a landscaper and housecleaner in the new home, you now have two yards to maintain and two homes to clean.
Figure out what the actual utilities expenses will be. Mine has propane gas, which is really expensive. I did not think it would be much different than my regular house, and the utility costs are about 3x as much.
To me, the second home feels like a huge burden. It is in a beautiful location, and when I’m there, I love it, but overall, I seriously considering selling it. What I spend to keep it each month would more than cover getting an air bnb for 2 weekends a month in any location I wanted to go to.
anon
Truly, this is what stops me and DH from finding a lake home. The idea of taking care of 2 places is daunting. Some days, 1 house feels like too much! I would be bitter if I were constantly doing chores at my getaway home.
Anon
I think it depends a lot on your standards for both houses. We probably spend ~an hour a week cleaning either house + general tidying / wiping down the kitchen more frequently.
We have a lawn service for the yard and I enjoying gardening has a hobby. Our real house is a condo so no yard there. We clean bathrooms / kitchen once a week and sweep the main floor once a week. We clean our bedroom as needed and will spend 5 mins cleaning our other bedrooms between guests (except my adult children; they clean their rooms – a small price to pay for a free beach house!).
Anon
Ehhhh, we still travel to other places frequently and use our vacation home all the time too. It really just depends on your budget and philosophy. I’m not especially frugal so I’m in no way bothered by spending money to go somewhere else.
Anon in NYC
+1. We go on lots of vacations. Our weekend house is mainly just to get out of the city.
Anon
I know several families who rent their beach houses oit only a few weeks a year. The money they get for renting becomes their travel budget for other trips.
Anecdata
A thought on the personal/non financial side — I personally would get a lot of value out of a vacation home that’s “permanent”/serves as a “family home base”, maybe especially if you’re thinking you’ll downsize or move towards retirement.
As a kid, my cousins and I spent summers at my grandma’s beach house. When I think about what I dream I could someday give my (hypothetical) kids, a place that feels like that is top of the list. When my grandma had to sell, is one of the few times in my life I wish I’d prioritized being richer; and if I won the lottery first thing I’d do is offer to buy the current owners something much fancier in exchange:).
Anon
I was thisssss close, but I realized my favorite place on earth, which is only a 2 hour drive away, has a huge inventory of rental cabins and probably always will, and if we bought our own, our enjoyable trips to the area would become maintenance trips for the cabin.
I just talked to a friend who had a beach place and that was her experience too. She finally sold it and went back to renting various places when she goes, including the place she used to own!
Anon
We are in a similar financial situation and we bought a small vacation home about a 90 minute drive away from our primary residence. It is in a cute mountain town. We use it non stop because it is so close. Furnishing a second home was more expensive than I had planned because it is basically starting from scratch. We also don’t travel anymore, just use the vacation home.
Anon
Ah that is interesting! In my area shore houses are typically sold finished.
Anon
I don’t know if this has been covered yet: one of the downsides of trying to rent out a vacation home for extra cash is that the times when people pay top dollar are the times when you want to use it. If you don’t want to use your Minnesota lake house in the summer or your ski lodge over winter break, go nuts. But that doesn’t really work for most people.
Anon
This is very true and on my extremely long list of all the reasons not to rent out your second home as a vacation rental.
Anon
We have one. We rent it out for part of the year and that pays for all the second home related costs.
Anon Elder Millenial
What do you think is trendy or popular now that people in be future will look back on fondly? Clothing, design, food, books, music, movies, anything.
Cb
I think some of the contemporary interior design is so cheerful? Like more colour, plants, etc.
Anon
Not: all white everywhere, White Houses with white trim.
anon
I heard someone describe the black window fad as heavy black eyeliner of the early 2000s and I can’t unsee it now. So trendy and I think it will look so dated very soon.
Anon
You know where black windows work? Or at least very dark bronze ones? Paris. I love the look of them but there is a place and overall look where they work and it’s like the package needs to work as a whole, visually.
Where they don’t? On a white modern farmhouse somewhere in suburbia that hasn’t been farmland in generations, especially when there are white blinds or louvered shutters right behind it. They need to back up to at least wood-toned blinds or some sort of non-pulled shut 24/7 non-white curtain or it really ruins the vibe.
Anonymous
I just returned to my all white home from a charming “cozy” vacation cottage in the woods breathed a sigh of relief. I’ll keep doing me, thanks. You keep hating. You’re not invited here anyway.
Anon
Ha — I moved into a house that had off-white walls and off-white non-glossy trim and it was like someone had scared the house and all of the color had drained out of it and then the jaundice had set in. Maybe white wouldn’t have been such a bad look but it look like tobacco-stained teeth.
Anon
I’m with you. I need my surroundings to be visually serene and peaceful. My personal aesthetic is white, cream, and ivory relieved by dark wood and textiles and paintings for color. I get plenty of color from rugs, pillows, throws and paintings. It’s so simple to edit to put in more or less color, or for seasonal color. To each her own.
go for it
+1 and all bedding, couches, dining room chairs are off white too! my seasonality comes from throws, pillows etc
AIMS
Not everything is a personal attack, guys. Some people like white, some people don’t. Some people like bright colors, some don’t. Same with granite and marble, at the risk of bringing *that* up again.
Who cares if a random someone on the internet approves of your personal style preferences? The question was “what do you think will be remembered fondly years from now” – not what is in horrible taste indicating a person with a total lack of aesthetics. Don’t take it so personally that every inherently subjective discussion devolves into this judgment on who you are as a person. Sometimes it’s just fun to hear that people like/hate gray walls.
Anonymous
It’s crummy that people use any excuse to put down the personal aesthetic of someone else’s home. This post specifically asked for trends we’ll we remember fondly and yet…here we are.
I’m not personally offended but I do need to push back. If you’re going to constantly bash my personal aesthetic I’m not going to reply by bashing yours, but I will reiterate that it works for me. I can’t imagine why it bothers anyone but then again..here we are. Trends come and go but I’m not sure why this one angers people here. It’s ok to have a simple peaceful aesthetic even if others crave color and pattern. I get that it’s not for everyone but the constant hate reaffirms that I’m doing what works for me. It makes me sad that design bullies here might make someone else shy away from creating a home that makes them happy. It’s really not the same as bashing a pant or shoe trend which can easily be changed and doesn’t affect daily happiness the same way.
AIMS
I guess my issue, to the extent you can even call it one, is that I don’t think of it as bashing in the first place.
The fact that someone can’t wait to be done with all white is not even really an opinion, all white will come in so many iterations that the current all white aesthetic is almost meaningless. And then by taking it so personally, it becomes something it was never even intended to be. For example, see the 2nd house discussion above. There is a comment about a second house being “worth it” more if you’re really outdoorsy that somehow turns into a gatekeeping comment that only outdoorsy people “deserve” second homes. I just can’t see how you get from A to B on these things. And maybe that’s a larger trend here and in society but can we not just assume good intentions and appreciate that my taste and yours can differ and that’s okay and doesn’t mean your taste is being attacked?
Anon
Agree that 12:19 is taking this WAY too personally.
I’m another person who doesn’t want all white in my own home, but I do understand that others like it. Me not liking it for myself is not an attack on those who do.
Anonymous
I’m not totally understanding our disagreement. It seems like you want people to be able to bash certain tastes and any pushback or disagreement is taking it too personally? I don’t see it that way.
Rather, I’m an advocate for people to create homes that they love. I’m unwavering in this and I never feel the need to go on about how I dislike other people’s homes. Life is too short and most people wait too long to create beautiful homes for themselves, sometimes in part because they worry what others might think of their choices. In response to my comment others have piped up to say they find a neutral or white palette works for them, so I’m glad I spoke up, especially because it’s a design choice that has been much maligned by professional designers and people on this board.I find it’s light enhancing in winter, cooling in summer, and allows me to marry modern and antique pieces as well as offset interesting art and focus on luxurious textiles. I’ve created a home I love and will love for years and to the extent that poster above is annoyed at this “fad”and wants me to change it…the bad news is it’s staying forever. The good news is she’s not invited over anyway.
Anon
Good lord, Anonymous at 2:05. No one is bashing you. Take a break from the internet.
AIMS
Anon @2:05 –
No one is bashing. You can disagree! I don’t care. But you’re not just disagreeing. Your comment (I think) was:
“I just returned to my all white home from a charming “cozy” vacation cottage in the woods breathed a sigh of relief. I’ll keep doing me, thanks. You keep hating. You’re not invited here anyway.”
You didn’t say, “i love all white! I just returned to my all white home after a ‘cozy’ vacation and I feel a sigh of relief” … You went from “agree to disagree” straight to – quote – “you keep hating. You’re not invited” — that’s the sole part that’s my issue! That’s not disagreement about aesthetics as much as it is straight up hostility and unnecessary defensiveness. Now, maybe it’s a tone thing that’s lost in the on-line of it all but I still think you’re kind of missing the point I am trying to make – no one “wants [you] to change” your home and no one is bashing your taste, but someone saying they don’t like X does not have to be an indictment on you liking X. You can just say, “actually I like X. I think x is great ” without resorting to “you’re a hater” or whatever … (people like or dislike things on here all the time that I disagree with and I don’t think of it as a reflection on my taste so much as a basic reminder that whether you like cobalt blue is inherently subjective).
Anonymous
I think pickle ball and wordle are two rather wholesome fads.
Anon doc
totally wordle
Anon
I just saw a guy wearing a tee shirt that said “PICKLEBALL IS NOT A CRIME” haha
Anon
I love them both! I play a variety of racquet sports and think a) pickleball is fun b) any fad that gets people up and moving is great (remember Pokémon go?) and c) I love anything I can do with my older relatives. It’s very wholesome to have multiple generations be able to share a hobby.
I am in my 20s and my 70-something cancer patient uncle and I share our Wordle scores every day. I love that I get to play pickleball with my other 70-something relatives too.
Anon
I find the pickleball craze funny, as it was a staple of gym class in my Midwestern middle and high schools 30 years ago. I guess we were ahead of the curve for once!
Anne
I think Gen Z is going to change the world. Truly. I think we’ll look back at them like we did the Civil Rights-to hippie-to women’s rights era and honor their contribution. The kids are alright.
Anon
I hope you’re right but they’d have to put down their phones first. And IDK how you are going to do that. One school tried to have kids only be able to touch their phones at lunch and the parents rebelled (OMG what if there is a shooting?). Meanwhile, I think their brains are practically like addicts, where they can’t let go even if they know it’s bad for them (and I blame COVID for this — schools shut down in my county for far too long).
anon
100 percent
Anon
100 percent
Anon
I actually believe the same but for the generation following. We are finally starting to see a shift back to reasonableness on many issues affecting Gen Z, like kids putting limits on their own smart phone usage and speaking up about the risks of p*rn. I think that generation has suffered from technology (see: skyrocketing mental illness in teen girls) in a way that is naturally going to balance out. But I never believed and never will believe that they have nothing to offer the world, even with that.
Monday
I don’t know about comparisons across generations, but I will say I’m very impressed with the Gen Z’ers I know. They’re too smart for hustle culture and too mature for dysfunctional romances! Clearly they learned from what our upbringing got wrong.
Anon
Lol, we’ll see.
Anonymous
I think a lot of the wholesome homemade Instagram content. Things like Howie the Crab or Sookie & Ivy. I suspect everything will be super slick in the future and built with AI we’ll miss the sort of “fancified” home movie sorts of things.
Anon
Skinny jeans are the most practical pants for winter and I will die on that hill. But the wider styles have been so comfortable this summer.
We’re in peak “build your own bowl” era at fast casual restaurants. It’s great that there are options for all dietary restrictions and preferences.
Anonymous
+1 to peak build your own bowl era. I would eat at the build your own bowl Mediterranean and Mexican places every single day if it wasn’t expensive.
Bean74
Skinny jeans in winter is also my hill!
Anon
Athleisure sneakers for the office. The world is a better place without painful feet.
Anne-on
Preach. I am shocked at how long we all put up with painful high heels pre-Covid. I swapped to pointy toe flats/kitten heels/low block heels around 2018/19 and the amount of comments I got from older female colleagues about how it ‘wasn’t as professional’ as heels were insane.
Anonymous
I just had this convo with a colleague yesterday! After years on heels, my feet are finally free and I am a happy role model for Team Sneaks.
Trish
I don’t ever want sneakers to go out of style
Anon
Taylor Swift is the equivalent of the Beatles in this generation.
Anon
Sneakers with dresses and skirts in the weekends. It’s so much more comfortable than ballet flats or flip flops or what not.
Not sure if it will change back – the giant reclinable seats at movie theaters and the options to get snacks (more than popcorn) during the show.
Avocado toast.
Monday
I think we’ve already peaked on the very high-quality TV series. I imagine that people will keep watching shows from like 2005-2020 for a long time because they will be better than newer shows, especially if the current strike doesn’t succeed on AI issues and writing and production are done more and more with AI.
Anon doc
This really has been a great era for TV. I really enjoy it, and it has cut into my reading time.
I used to love movies as a child, but now so many movies seem rushed… you really can’t build many stories/characters well in such a short amount of time. Or perhaps, it just take a lot of skill, which is not devoted to movies anymore. Movies now are mostly just…. commercials…. flashy money grabs there to hypnotize for a few hours…
Peaches
I’m re-watching Mad Men and it’s SO good.
Anonymous
I posted last week about taking a break from the avoidant boyfriend/texting with someone new. I did break up with the avoidant and also told the texter that I was only interested in friendship. I’m six years post-divorce and spent the first 3.5 years completely single and fairly happy. I was struggling with anxiety and depression, but happy to be single. Then I discovered the apps and went through two pretty intense relationships back to back. The apps just made it too easy to get attention when I was feeling bored or lonely. I am realizing that I need to work on myself and heal from this latest disappointment (the future we imagined together rather than the reality of the relationship) instead of jumping back into dating.
Here are my two questions. 1) if you have found happiness alone/learned self love after years of low self esteem, what worked for you? I feel like I have read every internet post and self help book out there, but I still struggle with this so much. I am on medication for anxiety now/have been in and out of therapy my whole life, but I still really really hate being alone. 2) When I’m lonely and the urge to download those apps and start swiping hits, how do I stop myself? I know it’s designed to be easy and addictive. And I know the attention temporarily soothes my pain. But this time I want to heal properly. I swear, I need parental controls on my phone or something!
Anonymous
I think you should use the Apps. Just be more discerning with your time and attention.
Anon
Me too. If you want a partner, there’s no shame in looking for one and going for it. Just see yourself as an actual prize and only date people who see you that way too. Don’t be afraid to cut them loose quickly.
Anonymous
Agree. The apps are just a quick intro service. Text a few times, meet in public for a coffee. Expect nothing. Spend 30 minutes or less on the way to a nail appointment or something else and if no spark move on to the the next. Invest 0 emotional energy in anyone until you find one special person who thinks you are great. You only need one, you just need to sift through the masses to find him. If you are attracted over and over to people who are avoidant with you then address in therapy That should not happen.
Anon
Agreed. Are you using the apps to flirt? They work better if you treat them like an introduction service. Use them to narrow down the pool, exchange 2-3 messages, then ask the guy to grab drinks. I spent minimal time interacting with guys on the app. I never felt like it was a self esteem booster, it was just a tool to arrange dates.
Anon
I met my husband on Bumble, but I was very intentional about not using it for flirting. I was clear about wanting a serious relationship leading to marriage and a family.
Anon
Good job breaking it off with him! You mentioned in and out of therapy. Finding a therapist I really clicked with was a game changer. I had 2 before: 1 was meh, the other was really not a good match (she suggested I read a book about angel messengers, which isn’t my thing). The 3rd helped me create achievable goals that probably helped as much if not more than medication. When I achieved the week’s goals, it built my self-esteem and motivation.
Anonymous
If left to my own devices, I am insecure. What has helped is therapy of course. Outside of therapy, I have a self-care routine that I need to maintain to feel my best. This includes exercise, meditation, journaling, mantras (like “I am enough and I have enough”), keeping in touch with friends and doing crafts. Just recently I got out of my routine because of a trip overseas followed by Covid. I could feel the insecurity creeping back in and really wanting external validation from my partner. I also know that the external validation will never be enough and I have provide internal validation. This week I finally resumed my self-care routine and I can feel it working. Therapy and medication help but you also need to figure out what you need to do for yourself so that you feel complete on your own. I came to this realization through journaling.
Anon doc
+1
Therapy, and really filling your life with meaningful people and things. Saying no. Doing what is best for your health, your sleep, your life. Acceptance.
It is really hard to get here. But finally, I really don’t care what people think anymore, and I am never lonely. Most of my friends are older and wise. I do miss the energy of younger people at times, and try to continue that by continuing things I really enjoy (music/great food/outdoors etc..). It is important to have friends of diverse ages. It is really enriching.
For me, my career must have meaning, or I would be depressed.
Unfortunately, it is also very hard to get here when you don’t have a certain amount of financial security. So I also worked hard on that. But also once you don’t care what other people think, and get off social media (!), and realize what you really enjoy…… I actually spend less money and am very happy with what I have.
I also have a lot of cancer in my family, and truly understand I could have a life ending diagnosis tomorrow. It really puts everything into perspective. Sometimes only when people get through a period of great loss…. and divorce is such a loss… are they able to build this new perspective.
Anon
What helped alleviate years of feeling worthless: good friends, things outside of my paying job that are worthwhile (eg sitting on nonprofit boards), getting into great physical shape (for the endorphins and the feeling of loving how strong my body is, not to look hot), and getting a snuggly pet.
Underlying all that: actions and feelings are intertwined. We are used to feelings driving actions (“I feel unworthy of a loving, stable relationship, so I will get into situation-ships with inappropriate men”); however, actions will eventually drive feelings, too. Every day, do something that is the action of a happy woman living her best life. You will eventually find yourself getting into healthier thought patterns. Pets help, too.
The self-care stuff – things like fancy coffees, a facial, a massage – never did it for me. It was always things that are memorable years later.
Anonymous
This really resonates. Thank you!
Anon
This really resonates with me too, and I do a lot of these things. Something additional that might help OP, depending on the reasons for the self-worth struggle, is visualization. Visualization exercises where you imagine telling your past self, at whatever age/moment the thing happened that made you feel unworthy, good things and offering them support and attention. If there is someone such a parent, mentor, close friend, or former partner who truly shows you love and finds you worthy, you can bring them and have them also say nice things in the visualization. Additionally, when you are experiencing a strong reaction or low feelings in the present, you can put your hands on your hips (this is a brain/body neuroscience thing) or across your chest and say what you need to hear out loud to yourself. For example ‘hell yeah I want to date you, you are incredible!’ ‘You are the kind of person who makes me glad I am alive, I’m so glad I met you, you enrich my life so much’ etc etc
Anonymous
+1K ” Every day, do something that is the action of a happy woman living her best life. “Thank you.
anon
Good job!! To answer your questions: 1) therapy. 2) find a replacement activity that makes you feel good about yourself and gives you fulfillment. I also make sure I have some other way to keep my hands busy, so to say, when I’m on my phone. I enjoy editing photos of my dog in light room. Also, actively remind yourself that you’re working towards a much more important goal. Maybe consider a control on your phone? I don’t know if there is one for specific apps, but there is nothing wrong with doing that!
Anonymous
All of this is really helpful! Thank you!
Re: the apps, as a single parent dating mostly other single parents, I find more/longer conversations happening because it’s so hard to find a common time to meet. But you’re right. I do need to be more discerning and take a different perspective. I’m not ready yet, but will keep all of this in mind when I am.
I love the goal setting idea and I’m going to try “goals for the long weekend to start.
I also really like the idea of the self-care routine. I have individual self care activities that I know are helpful to me, but I haven’t really thought about them all together as a holistic process. I’m going to put some thought into it. What you said about being insecure when left to your own devices really resonated with me.
This community is the best! You always give me the advice (and reality check) that I need!
Anonymous
Sara Eckel’s book “It’s Not You…” looks at the experience of being single and dating through a Buddhist lens, and I’ve found it incredibly helpful in reconciling all of these complicated feelings.
Anon
I was married right out of college, got divorced (and honestly realized we married each other because neither of us likes being alone), did the apps post-divorce for the same reasons as you. But I wasn’t looking for anything serious and I did find first dates fun. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with going on a bunch of dates. Just keep your options open and don’t commit to people so soon!
I did end up meeting my current husband on the apps – I honestly think I’m just the marrying type, which it sounds like you are too – but I don’t regret having met and gone on dates with literal scores of men before meeting him and realizing that it was different with him.
Anon
I probably went on dates with 30-40 men on the apps over the course of 2 years before meeting my now husband. I made an actual spreadsheet! So many dates helped me realize what I like and don’t like.
Anon
I love that you made a spreadsheet. That is so right up my alley I can’t believe I didn’t do it as well!
Anonymous
Anyone else working today? Feels like half my office took today off.
Cb
I’m having my first day at new job (from home) and working with a “sick” kid so very 2020 vibes around here. I am continuing to supervise my MA students at my old university so have spent the morning writing mean comments on their drafts.Now I need to try to get to grips with the weird teaching practices at new university.
Anon
WFH but it’s a lovely day and I am on the screened porch. So great!
Anon
Yup, working today! Prepping for (my first solo) arbitration on Tuesday. Wish me luck!
Anonymous
You got this!
Anon
Working today but I’m pretty sure the big boss will announce we can go home early.
Anon
Me! I’m working.
I actually took next week off because my kids start school and there are always random 2pm ‘Meet the Teacher’ events which pop up.
Anon
I’m WFH (rare for my office) but I’m spending the day planning, thinking, strategizing, and making lists for the fall, both work and personal, and some of it is happening on my balcony in the sun. I don’t think there’s anyone in the office today other than the receptionist, who unfortunately has to be there (but can leave at 3).
Anon
I took today off because I have to spend all day to travel to a popular vacation destination for a wedding. It’s costing an arm and a leg.
Please, don’t choose holiday weekend weddings in expensive tourist destinations.
Anon
Ugh, been there. And it was in my 20’s, so I remember EXACTLY how much that room on the Cape on a holiday weekend cost…
I vote to pretend you’re an Influencer and post EVERYTHING about the weekend. Live stream your public restroom reviews. Own the ridiculousness.
Anonymous
Working today. I have a gazillion deep thought projects—writing, coming up with media talking points for an upcoming interview with our CEO, etc. I work from home so I’m loving the idea of not showering until this afternoon and banging out work with no meetings.
Anonymous
working but will cut out a few hours early to drive to labor day weekend plans. Hoping the entire town doesn’t have the same idea and “leave before traffic hits” actually works out.
Anon
Business as usual at my office which has a 9 to 5, butts in seats culture. Sigh.
Anon
Working, and actually in the office in spite of the WFH option being promoted heavily for today b/c I honestly just wanted a fancy coffee and escape from DH.
Anon
We’ve been WFH since Wednesday due to a water main issues and will be at least until Tuesday. It’s been really quiet.
ALT
Working and I have SO much to do…it’s going to be a late night.
Senior Attorney
Your government is here working for you today, which means I am here.
Anon
Thank you!
Trish
Yea and all weekend too
Anon
Working, but it’s organizing my office and doing tax stuff for my business, not client work today.
I’m just coming off a busy period and just reorganizing, shredding, and tossing is long overdue.
Anon
Working and happy to be doing so from the office so I can get some peace & quiet away from my spouse, who is extra clingy now that we are empty nesting!
Elle
Feeling like I want to paint my bedroom over the long weekend and looking for inspiration! Our bedroom furniture is black and midtoned wood. What color would you paint the walls?
Cb
Terracotta, dusky pink… I think there’s something so warm about a pink bedroom, she says from her Lick Red 03 sitting room.
Panda Bear
I like dark colors in a bedroom to make it feel cozy. Maybe a deep emerald or navy.
Anon
oooo. emerald or hunter green with some gold tones in hardware would be gorgeous and woodsy.
Our bedroom is darker wood and black with a light gray on the walls and dark blue curtains. Bedding is white and it always feels really crisp to me.
Mpls
+1. I did a deep teal for my bedroom. I’ve got white trim and a black steel bedframe. It also makes the pink/teal quilt (for summer) and white flannel duvet (for winter) pop. The color makes me so happy every time.
anon
We went with dark purple black (in a very small room) and love it. Highly recommend dark colours for bedrooms.
Anon
Sage green. It’s soothing but with enough personality that it doesn’t look like a bland hotel room.
AIMS
+1. I remember reading something about how popular clothing colors turn into popular paint colors and there is so much great sage green everywhere right now.
anon
+1. I’ve learned that I don’t like bright or dark colors in my bedroom. Sage is a really nice in-between place.
Anonymous
My last rents
Had sage green BR and I loved it so much.
Anonymous
What direction does the window face and how much light?
Anon
I have medium brown antique furniture and white trim around the windows. We pained sort of a warm sage green after years of a terracotta shade and it is so nice. I liked how the furniture blended into the walls with the terracotta shade, but the green is so peaceful, and the brown harmonizes with it because they’re both nature colors.
We ended up going warmer on the green then I expected, because when we put up cool toned sage swatches, they pulled really blue on the walls, which wasn’t the look I wanted. We have green trees outside the windows and I wanted the walls to harmonize with that.
Now the green with the white trim looks kind of like a marzipan cake, which makes me happy.
Anon
I feel like MZ Wallace had a moment and I was too poor to buy it. Does anyone use these as work bags in 2023 or are they just going-to-yoga bags?
Anon
I had one ages ago, don’t be too sad, it was my least favorite work bag ever.
AIMS
I see them on the subway in NY still with people presumably going to work. They’re great for carrying lots of stuff (to the extent anything can be) because they’re lightweight. I would stick to darker colors like gray and black and the plain silhouette (not the one with tons of pockets, which is what my mother favors).
Anonymous
Tightlining or lining the waterline — is this safe? so popular now. I do like the way it looks with my black black NudeStix eye pencil but I worry it’s not healthy for my eyes…
Anon
Just take it off at night and use your own stuff and it’s fine.
Anon
Lining your waterline isn’t safe, and I know that, but I do it anyway. So far so good.
anon
I’ve been tightlining (upper water line) for years and have not had issues. I like how it makes the base of my lashes look darker and thicker. I’m Indian and I remember my mom using kohl liner on me as a kid. If it causes any irritation, then definitely stop.
Anonymous
I’ve had issues with eye infections and eye dryness so I avoid eyeliner on my waterline. I wear eye makeup but make sure to change it out so I’m not using old product (more likely to harbor bacteria), and I remove it completely every night.
anon
It’s not safe but the people who really love the look are willing to take the risk. I personally am not.
Anon
Is it trendy again? I did it from like 2000-2015 and never had any problems.
ALT
I tight line my upper lash line every day and have had zero problems. I use ophthalmologist approved eyeliner and not an eyeshadow stick (this might be the key difference).
I’ve even gone to my eye doctor with my eyes done with my eyeliner and she’s never said anything.
Anon
Try to get that tight line into the base of your lashes. Assuming you’re talking about upper lashed, push the tip of your pencil into where your lashes sprout, not the wet part below. It lasts longer, looks more natural, and it’s not bad for you.
Anon
Here’s a video of Tris h doing it
https://youtu.be/4csJBxmfN74?si=UupRO_Uk8Ecl04JL
I admit that when I’m doing it, I’m not going for quite as natural of a look, so I apply more.
Anon
Oh that’s exactly what I do! It’s a brilliant trick.
Anon
If you have a tendency to develop chalazia, tightlining does not help. Ask me how I know.
anon
NYC folk – Is there any place that has live music (ideally jazz, but open) in a historic club venue with the central stage/dance floor and tables circling around, often with a few different elevations? Sorry for the lack of better description – think of the sort of places that Ricky Ricardo played in I Love Lucy, or the venue in Stormy Weather/all those showbiz 1940’s musicals.
Anonymous
I haven’t been there in 30 years (senior prom!) but the Copacabana would’ve fit your description minus the jazz. I just looked and it seems like the current music is a mix of salsa, bachata, disco, etc., with a DJ, so maybe not exactly what you’re looking for, but the setup as I remember it is very similar to what you want and it definitely fits your time period — opened in 1940!
Pep
I think the Café Carlyle is what you are looking for.
Teapot
Perhaps the Village Vanguard in Greenwich Village? It’s one of the oldest jazz clubs in NYC and I had a great time when I went there a few years ago.
Anon
COVID question …I’m on day 8, still sniffly but feeling MUCH better, and haven’t had a fever in more than 24 hours (no Tylenol). Do you think it’s safe for my husband to stop quarantining from me? He really wants to avoid getting sick for multiple reasons (limited PTO, isolation, I’m pregnant so need him to do more of the housework, etc). At this point he feels like he’s so close to making it out he doesn’t want to risk anything but I feel like fever free means I’m not that contagious anymore? Would you wait for a negative test or does this seem sufficient?
Anon
I’ve never tried to quarantine at home, always seemed a fools errand in our space. But if you’ve been pulling it off, I’d give it a couple more days.
Anon
wait until a negative test
Anon
We waited until the negative test and I never got Covid, even though my husband and I had the same exposures and we shared a bed the night before he tested positive. Isolation and air purification and ventilation really do work.
Anon
Same here. We waited for two negative tests 24 hours apart.
Anonymous
I would test and wait for a few negative tests. How contagious you are has nothing to do with how you feel.At this point, you’re so close it’s not worth the risk to him.
Anonymous
Day 13 and still faintly positive here. Stay the course until you test negative. Do you seriously want to have to take care of a sick spouse and to have him use up all his PTO when you have a baby on the way?
Anonymous
Not worth it. I’d wait until after the long weekend.
anonymous
I can’t even believe you might stop quarantining at this stage. We’re admittedly Covid-cautious in my household, but we have generally continued to wear KN-95 masks at all times inside. If you have a positive test, I don’t think you should even consider sharing space with others. Unfortunately, due to our country’s MAGA political climate, the worldwide pandemic is not over (even if we want it to be!)
Anon
I’m not MAGA, but I have the vaccine and every booster possible. It’s over for me. The last 2 years have been filled with travel, friends, family, and life. No regrets.
Anon
Presumably you’d have regrets if you’d drawn the short straw and been unable to travel or socialize comfortably these last two years due to illness though? It’s great not to draw the short straw.
Anon
Sure, but the likelihood was small from the beginning.
Anonymous
Nope! Covid really was bad for me. I still don’t regret at all living my life.
Anonymous
I don’t think it’s your choice to make. If he wants a negative test, that’s what you wait for.
Anon.
Wait for a negative test (and swab cheeks/throat, then deep in the nose).
Anonymous
Per the CDC (updated guidance recently) quarantine for 5 days followed by mask for 5 days. If you want to stop the protocol earlier, two negative tests 48 hours apart.
Anon
+1
Anon
That’s a politically influenced guideline related to getting people back to work. It’s not about OP not getting her husband sick, which is a different standard.
Anonymous
This. The judgment was that during a surge it was more important to get doctors and nurses back on the job ASAP than to protect people from infection.
Anon
I would wait until a negative test. If you’re still turning a home test positive, your viral load is still pretty high. Those tests aren’t that sensitive.
If you can’t wait until a negative test, at least wait a full 10 days and then wear a mask around anyone you don’t want to infect. There are studies that infectiousness drops significantly around the 10 day mark. This worked for both my husband and me who (separately) had Covid and didn’t give it to each other or our kids. We both tested positive for 13 days.
Anonymous
i caught it from my husband at the tail end — he tested negative, then 4 days later i tested positive.
Anon
Wait for a negative test. We did that in my household and it worked.
Anon
Thank you to all who replied with helpful responses – I will keep quarantining and test tomorrow! Fingers crossed.
Anon
I have an estate planning meeting set up to discuss my child who has autism and jay need a lot of supports as an adult but we hope can live largely independently. She does not want to go away to college. I’m wondering if the $$$ that our city’s SLAC (not ranked at all but it is a small and lovely school) would be better spent on support services and local state U and then paying for a condo in a safe area of our city where she can live in a quiet area (not a noisy dorm) and we have some ability to oversee and she can live there after school even if she doesn’t get a well-paying job. Like what is the best thing to do with the $150K difference in price? The estate planner can help with legal things but not this sort of question.
Anonymous
I would never in a million years send a kid who is iffy on independent living to a large university. You have to be extremely aggressive and self-directed in order not to get lost at one of those schools. I have attended both a large state school and an SLAC and would recommend an SLAC for at least 75% of neurotypical kids. If you are worried about her ability to hold down a job, is a SLAC even a realistic possibility? Have you discussed alternatives to college with her therapist?
Anon
In your shoes, I wouldn’t bother with the SLAC, I’d focus on the condo and getting her some skills training to be employable. But college sounds like it’s probably a square peg, round hole situation that wouldn’t give her the leg up it does for others. I’ve seen a lot of kids flunk out of college lately and I think your money is probably going to help her more spent in a different way.
Anon
My child well with school but managing stimming and staying still is a huge challenge, so want to at least try college if she can keep her OT and counselor in place. Light rail would go all the way to school and our central business district (city driving is currently overwhelming but that may not be forever; I hate it also but I’m not autistic). Kid wants us to be able to step in quickly if she feels overwhelmed and I’m hoping that if she is just where she is familiar, that may not even happen the way it would if she got into the “best” school that was a plane ride away. IDK how to make a helpful plan for her but just trying to do a lot of thinking now that we aren’t on a typical plan.
Anonymous
Can she live at home and go to state school? Or a community college to start?
Anon doc
+1
Anon
How old is she now?
Anon
16 – driving age for new drivers here
Anon
So old enough that not much will change between now and then. I think this depends a lot on the specifics of how good the supports are at your local schools. A smaller school will generally be easier to navigate and the professors will probably be more accommodating, but they will probably also have fewer resources, so you’d really want to know about this school and how well they can support students like your daughter. I’d also think seriously about community college, which will have smaller classes and generally better teaching, plus it would be easier to do part time if it turns out that’s a better option. But, again, the specific schools really matter, so you need to talk to people who have experience with them. (I’m a professor- we get absolutely no training in supporting students with disabilities and teaching is really very small part of their jobs at a big research university, so don’t expect much help at a big school)
Anon
Isn’t a big issue for community college having a lot of students needing substantial academic remediation to keep on the on-ramp to a degree vs a kid who needs support for learning disabilities or something like autism? Out CC does a lot of job skills / certification classes and a lot of remediation but I’m not sure how well they serve other sub-populations of students.
Anon
Not necessarily. I’m a STEM prof who has taught at state universities in several states where a large number of students attend community college and then transfer to a 4 year school. In my experience, those students have gotten just as good of an education in their intro science classes as the students that take the gigantic intro classes at our university. Community colleges also teach job skills and remediation, but in a lot of places they do a very good job of teaching intro classes and can give students more individual attention than a large research university can. I think going to a community college is a loss for a student who wants the 4 year college social experience and wants to tap into extracurriculars, research experiences, and connections to internships, but the basic education can sometimes be better if they prefer having small classes and professors that actually want to teach. But there is a lot of variation from school to school and department to department so you really need to know your local schools.
Anonymous
I’d also focus on the condo/job skills. Different situation, but I have an adult relative with a disability living independently with some oversight from her parents. She had a lot of ups and downs in her 20s, with some social situations requiring significant parental intervention, and quite a few failed jobs, various job training programs/social services. In her 30s she is now successfully running her own business (with family support on the legal/financial side)!
Anonymous
I think this is impossible to answer without knowing your kid, her abilities, and her goals. If you are questioning her ability to live independently, I think the first question is “what career might work for her” and then “does she need to go to college?” followed by an evaluation of college possibilities.
My neighbor is an educational consultant and her focus is helping neurodiverse kids figure this out. Perhaps that’s the sort of resource you need. For example, here in MA Curry College is a pretty low ranked SLAC but known for its ability to support kids via their PAL program.
Anon
I think this is a wise approach.
I know people who thought college would be a waste of time because of autism, and who are now really, really struggling in entry level jobs. Working class culture can be harder in terms of social norms (not all autistic people can tell the difference between friendly hazing and actual hostility). If there are issues like poor muscle tone, poor coordination, difficulty with accents, or just being physically slow, coworkers can become really impatient.
When a BA can open the door to a data entry job in a quiet office with a HR department, that can sometimes be a much better fit than food service / retail / front desk kind of jobs that can be fast paced or involve a lot of people skills.
Autism is really different one person to the next though, so I’m sure there are people who would reach the exact opposite conclusion, and whose social quirks might actually go better in a more casual environment, or who excel at physical work, etc.
Walnut
This. Absolutely this. My sister is in this boat and they’re going to start small with the local community college, living at home, and utilizing resources available from the local school district until 20 or 21. It’s definitely a conversation worth starting to have with the individuals involved in your daughter’s IEP at school.
Anon
+1 to the fact that college may be a gateway to a more accommodating career pathway (or pathways).
I have worked with many people who either are autistic or have characteristics typical of autistic individuals. Many of them actually excelled in the type of work we were doing because it meshed with their strengths (e.g., a desire for order and fascination with optimization of process when doing data analysis work) while we were able to accommodate their needs (e.g., noise cancelling headphones, lower light in their workspace, and meetings/assignments planned out in advance so there was minimal ‘pivoting’ during the work day).
FWIW, we aren’t a specifically adaptive workplace, so remember that there are lots of options for people who may not fit the social mold to pursue successful careers.
Anne-on
This. I would ID your child’s special interest and then heavily support them throughtout school to get a BA if you think they are likely to be able to work in an office with accomodations. There are SO many roles where people can/do geek out and hyperfocus on their ‘special interest’ with other like minded folks all day – math, data engineering, hard sciences, film, music, etc.
Anonymous
Yes, a good educational consultant is the answer here. They know about options parents may not even have imagined.
Anon
What is the goal of college for her?
anon
I’m not sure a highly expensive and poorly ranked SLAC is a good choice for anyone, much less a child who may not be able to live independently as an adult. I would very much pursue the option that best allows you to help support her long term, which sounds like the local state U + funding for a living situation that may better meet her needs. Is community college an option? (In our area there are several, and some of them have smaller classes.)
Anonymous
my autistic son is much younger than your child (10) but i’m already starting to think about this. resources that might be of interest:
– FB group, College Transitions and Accommodations Info for Parents – I haven’t gone too deep yet but looks helpful
– carrie cariello – her autistic son just went away to a college program and she’s been blogging about some of the challenges. she uses a lot of ableist language (has autism), but i think it’s more the fact that when her son was really young that’s what the language was. it isn’t clear if he’s enrolled in the college or doing some other kind of situation like taking classes.
– abbey’s mom on tiktok – mid-20 something autistic daughter who seems relatively low support, lots of talk about how they live and what her life is like
i’m confused about your daughter when you say she’ll need a lot of supports but could live independently… those two things are opposites in my mind. but obviously with autism everyone’s different. i wouldn’t put $ on a condo if you’re still unsure if she can live somewhere with a stove, for example, or that she’d even want to be that far from you. i’d try a semester at a SLAC to see how it goes, maybe then you could adjust to the state U. there are also some universities with autism specific programs like Mercyhurst.
Anon
OP here -/ the supports would be mostly to be in a very quiet living situation for college. The noise of a dorm and stuff like partying don’t agree with her. She needs peace and a lot of down time and sleep at night. As an adult, I’d want her to be able to live safe and solo, so the support might be more economic while still not being at home. She can cook and do laundry and manages periods, etc. she may work but might not earn enough to avoid roommates and outside of family, can see roommates not being a good fit for her. If we had a granny flat that might work but we don’t and I want her to be as independent as she can be because at some point I will die and I need to know she will be OK without us (and she will also need to know this as she and we get older).
Anonymous
Our pediatrician claims that some SLACs will give kids single rooms as an accommodation. Worth looking into.
Anon
If it is a reasonable accommodation, this would be required by law AND the institution can only charge the double room rate.
Anne-on
Is it possible for her to live in a smaller dorm that caters to sober living/international students? There were lots of different living options like that at my private ($$$) university decades ago. I honestly think trying to focus on getting her BA/BS via whatever means work best and then helping her land a professional job will result in the best possible post-collegiate life.
Anon
Public institutions always have more services available for the differently abled than privates do. I’d go public for that reason.
Anonymous
To access those services she will have to advocate for herself, though. I would be looking into small private colleges with specialized programs even if they are far away. She may change her mind about staying local if she finds the right fit. Also, an education that prepares her to live independently could be a good investment financially.
I have three degrees from some of the top public schools in the country. They are not friendly, supportive places. I also have a ND nephew who really floundered at a large public university. Some, but not all, small private schools are actually invested in the success of individual students and will do whatever it takes to keep them there. Less selective schools are sometimes better at this.
Anon
Ehh. Often public institutions have more services but they’re also more desperately needed. A “IEP for every special snowflake” atmosphere at a well resourced private SLAC can beat a “we cater to ‘normal’ kids but have services and accommodations for those other kids provided they have the appropriate labels” atmosphere at a public university.
Anon
Can we not call kids snowflakes, especially if they legitimately need services? Unemployment among disabled adults is shockingly high. Avoiding that would do all of society well if we can help move people to or towards self-sufficiency.
Anon
Thanks, I didn’t really mean snowflake negatively, but I see how it sounded that way.
I really think the “each and every student has unique needs” culture at a lot of private SLACs is better for everyone than the “most students are normal and then there are the outliers who are a burden on the institution to accommodate” culture of public education.
Anonymous
Snowflake is negative. If you don’t mean to be pejorative don’t use it at all
Anon
I’m ignoring everything you said after you used the snowflake comment on a thread about an autistic kid.
Anon
I have a spectrum Dx and fall within the special snowflake category. I was trying to represent the attitude I’ve encountered that makes me actually prefer private education culture to public.
Anon
Snowflake is another term weaponized by the alt right, like woke. Snowflakes are unique and so are people. It was clear that it wasn’t meant in a negative way at all.
Coach Laura
My opinion as a former community college instructor/professor and aunt to autistic twins – do not send her to SLAC or large university. Community colleges generally have more programs than large universities. Individual SLACs may have good programs too, but usually with a higher price tag.
The community college where I taught had a robust autism “Navigators” program, where various levels of support were provided based on student needs and wants. I’d save my money for the condo and future needs. Here’s a useful resource. https://collegeautismspectrum.com/collegeprograms/
Coach Laura
Forgot to add that many community colleges have feeder programs to larger schools such as state flagships. This type of program is very useful. Another useful resource. https://www.stairwaytostem.org/community-college-can-be-a-good-fit-for-students-on-the-spectrum/
Anon
Does anyone have suggestions for a 100% cotton men’s robe in a classic blue or similar neutral aesthetic? My boyfriend has an ancient one from Jos Bank that has fallen apart and wants something similar for his birthday (Jos Bank is not selling anything similar right now.). Brooks Brothers only has plaid and I’m not seeing just plain cotton (not terry or fleece) at Eddie Bauer or Lands End.
Thank you for any thoughts!
Anonymous
I think you will have better luck with lightweight robes in the spring than in the fall.
Anon
LLBean has a few options in a poly/cotton blend in a non-terry/non-fleece robe. I like the look of the ‘rugby robe’ which is hooded.
Also check out the Vermont Country Store. They always have stuff like this and I’m seeing that they have several 100% cotton options on their website.
Anon
Oddly enough, The Vermont Country Store has a selection of classic, natural fiber men’s robes.
Anon
Pottery Barn and Lake Pajamas both have men’s cotton robes. Some of the bedding and bath stores have men’s or unisex robes. Company Store, Garnet Hill, etc.
Anon
Onsen has nice 100% cotton robes (waffle texture)
Anonymous
If beige would be all right, IKEA has the Bjalven robe in a waffle 80 percent cotton, 20 percent viscose.
H&M used to have a beautiful linen robe, but looks like it’s been discontinued.
Marks & Spencer (US online store) has two different navy 100 percent cotton men’s robes. One waffle, and one with white dots.
Anonymeause
I have an interview for a job where the salary range is listed as follows (made up numbers): 50K – 80K – 110K. How should I interpret this? My gut feeling is that somewhere in the midpoint might be the negotiable range, but I have nothing to corroborate that. If it makes any difference, it is for a local govt entity. Thanks for any insight.
Anon
Work in government and when we post this it’s because the title is something like ‘Business Analyst’. Within that we have a business analyst trainee (requirements 1 year experience, bachelor’s) making the $50K. Then we have a Business Analyst (requirements 5 year experience + bachelor’s degree but you can sub in 3 years of experience for a Master’s degree). Finally you have the Senior Business Analyst which is a Business Analyst with max experience who is topped out on the government salary scale.
Anon
I work at a state university in a state where salary ranges are legally required to be included in the job ad. Our job ads usually say something like the salary range for this position is 50k to 110k, but the expected range for this job is 70-80k. You’re not going to get more that that unless your qualifications are truly outstanding in ways that allow us to justify it to the powers that be or if we’ve had at least one failed search and we can claim it’s the only way we’re going to be able to hire anyone for the role. Not sure exactly what the wording means in your case, but there are probably certain pay bands for certain qualifications, based on education and experience, and they’d have to be able to justify why they are want to pay you at each level?
Anonymous
probably that the band is 50-110 so expect an offer of 55-60 unless you are very senior. Once you hit $110 in your example you will not longer get any raises and have hit the ceiling of the pay band. You will not be hired at this salary.
ELS
I worked as a local government attorney for several localities and this is my experience as well.
anon
I’m in my mid 30s and underrepresented WOC in my firm (consulting) I’ve had my first huge and undeniable run in with bias over the last year or so and all the things you read about happening to people like us in the workplace with the real potential to set my career back here. I always knew this kind of thing existed but never had to put this degree of time and energy into managing it. I feel like connecting with others who have navigated things like this or hearing about others’ experiences would be helpful but I don’t know where to start. Most of my colleagues are male and white, and our affinity groups at work are made up of junior colleagues who just have different challenges and expect me to have all the answers.
No Face
Are there affinity groups for your industry or professionals with your background? I’m a Black woman and the local African American bar association was essential. I avoided a lot of bad workplaces based on what I learned from others.
Anon
Also in consulting. Your firm might be different but all our affinity groups have local office partners involved in addition to national affinity group leadership. I would reach out to one of the partners in affinity leadership.
Anon
I’m sorry to tell you that in my experience the bias and the need to navigate it didn’t go away as I went up in the ranks… Honestly, I notice it more now that I’m partner-level! So much emotional labor to manage it and dance around it! And if you do it seamlessly, nobody will give you credit, because it will remain invisible to most people. :-(
I wish I had something more encouraging to say! I personally find it helpful to have people and contexts in my life where I can at least talk about it, because I find it more stressful when it remains “the problem with no name.”
Anonymous
Ok. It’s Friday. My husband has the day off and I’m working from home and a little punchy. We just had a discussion that ended with us laughing hysterically but ultimately disagreeing on if I am off my rocker to be annoyed at the following:
We bought two bags of chips that come in “scoop” shape. I specifically bought them to make appetizers that are mini bowls of chips filled with dip (which is pictured on the label). I opened the bags and one bag is nearly entirely flat chips. not broken, just flat and not scoop shaped. I jokingly said that I should write to the company. My husband spat out his coffee and said I clearly need more hobbies; just shut up and use the other bag of chips. My point was that I bought the chips for their specific shape—it would be like buying Oreos and finding half the bag was all cookies and no creme filling, as opposed to if I opened the bag and found the chips to be smushed, which is clearly not the fault of the manufacturer. I have to buy twice as many bags of chips to make the appetizers I’m trying to make. Plus, these chips were like $5.99!
We moved on, finished coffee, and DH suggested I post on “AITA” to settle if I’m completely off base with being annoyed.
Thoughts?
Anon
I worked at a company that designed the manufacturing process for scoop chips. Write to the company – something has gone wrong in their process. Likely, they are cutting corners with machine design.
Anan
This is so fascinatingly specific to me! I mean I guess the shape has to come from somewhere, but I would never have thought the problem could be so basic!
anon
IDK, but now I want a giant bag of fritos scoops with some cheese dip.
Anon
One time when I bought Rotel to make that classic party dip the can had about three pieces of tomatoes in it and was otherwise just liquid. I emailed the company and they responded with some nice coupons. Save the bag if you mean to do this as they may want info off of it.
Anon
Totally justified in being annoyed. I probably wouldn’t bother doing anything about it, but I agree that the entire point is the shape. Why else would anyone buy those chips?
Z
Your husband sounds mean.
Anonymous
nah, it might come off that way in how i wrote it but he was just saying it was way not as big a deal as the sort of thing one should make a fuss over :).
Senior Attorney
Of course you are right to be annyoed and you should totally write to the company. I’m sure they will send you some coupons for more chips, which they should. Also if I were the company, I would want to know. Take a pic of the batch number or whatever and include that in your letter/email.
Anonymous
I think he’s a jerk. He told you to shut up?! How is this a question. Of course it’s annoying that your chips are wrong.
Senior Attorney
Don’t know why I’m in mod, but I’m Team You.
Also this is great with Fritos Scoops: https://www.leahcookskosher.com/show_recipe.php?id_recipe=8
Walnut
FWIW if you write the company, you’ll probably get coupons to go buy more. Practically speaking, make a tray of the apps with the bag that isn’t flat and eat this bag today while working from the sofa.
Anon
This is what I’d do.
Anonymous
You paid for scoops, there should be scoops. NTA!
anonshmanon
Did he actually tell you to shut up? Not cool.
Is he at all involved with cooking and planning meals in your house, or does food just show up for him and he is ignorant about what goes into that?
Complaining to the company would probably not be a great use of your time, but you said it as a joke so that is not the issue here.
Anonymous
OP here. He does the majority of the housework, including all the grocery shopping (he was the one that told me they were on sale, so not actually $5.99!). This post is not a question about our relationship, which is great. I just streamlined the lengthy conversation to get to the point.
Anon
Yes, it sounds great.
Anon
Laughing at how hand-wringy some of these comments are. Your relationship sounds great! My husband and I being able to jokingly tell each other “oh shut up” or “you’re being so ridiculous right now” etc is part of what I love about us. We don’t take each other too seriously and we communicate honestly and openly (and if someone is actually upset, much more gently). And I personally wouldn’t write to the company but more power to you if you want to! Agree that you’re NTA though.
Anon
Ignore the haters. I’ve come on here and complained about fairly minor things (think: my husband thought we should store shoes in a closet while I wanted a storage bench) because I needed to vent and suddenly was told that not only did I need therapy but also that I should divorce my husband.
I would totally write a letter but would also make a cheese ball and decorate it with the flat chips, just to make a point.
Anon
Lol, nobody’s being a hater. Some of us are pointing out that living with a man who tells you to shut up doesn’t sound great.
anonshmanon
OP’s clarification implies that ‘shut up’ was either a shorthand description or snarky and not actually serious. It sounded a little different in the first post, so I think that’s what me and others were reacting to.
Anonymous
I think your husband sounds mean.
I have no idea what ‘posting on AITA’ means, but really, who cares if you are ‘off your rocker’ or not!?
If you want to contact the company, it will take all of five minutes and they will likely send a form apology and some coupons.
Anon
NTA. the way you describe your husband reaction, it sounds a harsh. Going full Karen on TikTok about it maybe not, but a 2-minute customer service email for a $6 bag of chips is reasonable. Even if you said it jokingly, I don’t see anything wrong about saying: “hey I was disappointed to find that the bag I bought on Sept 1st wasn’t scooped-shaped as advertised”. Most reasonable companies would apologize and send a coupon or at worse you never hear back, and you stop buying said brand.
Anon
Telling your spouse to shut up is not nice.
Anon
I would write the company. Personally I don’t have the budget to keep buying the items I need / intended to buy the first time. But even if I did, I paid for something with the expectation of abc, don’t give me product xyz
Anon
I used to work with a woman who had kids just a bit older than my kids. She said she tried being a stay at home mom for a year but then she found herself calling the number on the side of the Huggies box to complain about the diapers, and that’s when she realized she needed to go back to work.
Sure, write to them about the flat chips if you have time. The best you can hope for is a coupon and a form letter, but why not.
If you want a hilarious look into writing to companies like this, read the book The Lazlo Letters, which is an actual long-running prank by the comedian Don Novello.
Anonymous
The grocery store would probably let you return it. The product is defective and you couldn’t have known until you opened the bag. I think I’ve only ever returned something to the grocery store once – a package of scallops with a sell by date in the future, I opened them the day I bought them and they smelled like they were already bad – and it was surprisingly painless. NTA.
Anan
Oh I would totally return them *and* write the company.
JD
Since you’re both laughing over this, I suggest writing to the company if they have a web form AND also posting to AITA. This is frivolous and good humored enough that you could get on the Popular Page! Maybe include a picture of the chips without the brand for better post marketing :) Have a good long weekend and nice appetizers.
Anon
Inspired by the second house question above….my husband and I are good friends with two other couples (the two other men each went to high school with my husband, so they go way back). The other couples have started talking about the six of us going in on a cabin together. So far the conversation seems hypothetical and somewhat joke-y, but it’s been coming up more often lately. I feel very strongly against getting into financial relationships with friends. Whenever they bring it up my husband seems somewhat interested, even though he says he agrees with me on the ~financial entanglement~ aspect. Has anyone had this kind of situation and it worked out? Or the opposite, have you or someone you know done this and it crashed and burned? Curious to hear stories, mostly because it’s the Friday before Labor Day and I’m bored :)
Anonymous
Don’t do it. Next time they bring it up “we love renting cabins with y’all but would never get into business with friends.”
Anon
I’d rather get a time share (which I’d never do) than lose friends over real estate. Watch *Pacific Heights. Then be glad you dodged a bulked.
* Pacific Heights is my ultimate “real estate is a nightmare” movie.
anon
Listening with interest, because we’re also considering it but have some concerns. There are definitely friends I would never ever do financial business with, but there are a few that I would.
Anon
I won’t even do this with family (and am willing to be the one blocking it). It’s very worth it to me to just rent a cabin instead! What happens when someone’s financial situation changes and the cabin becomes a burden? How do six people coordinate when a tree falls on the cabin and it needs a new roof; is it really as simple as splitting the dinner bill? This all sounds like no fun at all me… none of the security of owning something myself, and none of the “not my problem” relaxation that would come from vacationing in somebody else’s cabin that I’m just renting.
Anonymous
Our neighbors floated this idea and we said no thanks, but we’d happily commit to renting it for 3 weeks/year for several years!
Anon
We share-rented a cabin with another family for a year but I’d never buy with someone else, not even family. Besides the financial aspect, everything becomes a 3-way negotiation. How tidy are these couples compared to your standard, or how risk takers are they? You could easily lose a friendship over something like changing an old roof versus waiting until it leaks.
anonshmanon
I feel like renting a shared cabin is already a commitment that I would only make with a select group of people.
Senior Attorney
I mentioned this above, but my husband bought a ski condo with three other then-couples many years ago and it worked out… reasonably well. They got a really good deal on it originally, so that helped. One of the partners died a few years ago, so the remaining three bought out the widow and what appears to me to have been a ridiculously high price (the market was in a bubble at the time), and refinanced the property to do that. When they sold recently, one of the remaining partners had just died but fortunately his share was held in his trust so the death didn’t cause any problems with the transaction. They were all super laizzez-faire about the whole thing in a way that would have driven me crazy if I had cared about it more than I did. One of the partners made the mortgage payments and the others reimbursed him when they thought about it. Maintenance costs were low and ditto. It helped that they were all old and the amounts of money involved were not super significant to any of them. Still, I was happy when they decided to sell it. As I said above, the real downside was it was a 1bd/1ba, so too small for them to all be there together, and too small for even two couples to stay comfortably.
BUT… Hubby tells me they had many good years enjoying the trading off the use of it, so there’s that.
Senior Attorney
reply in mod so check back
Anon
I have not, but I have observed what my FIL did and appreciate his approach.
FIL bought a second home and then (NAL, these steps are from my understanding) made an LLC, put house in LLC and divided up shares and sold shares to family and friends only. It’s worked out quite well from my view. No major scuffles, although MIL was miffed with some design choices. Design choices are made through voting (based on shares) and must be accompanied by a robust business case. FIL is very logical and is very transparent with how maintenance funds are used, which I think is a big factor in its success. He also is quick to have a one-one discussion of someone appears to be disrespecting the by-laws, which clearly lay out what happens if they’re not followed (e.g., large cleaning fee if someone brings their pets).
Anon
My husband and the husband of one of my good friends kept talking about buying rural land with a barn, building a giant garage, and working on their shared passion, old cars, at that location. It kind of makes sense because we all live in an urban area and it’s too cramped to have more than one project car at a time. (I guess I’m lying because my husband currently has two, but he shouldn’t. We really don’t have the room.)
However, I do not want to have shared property with anyone. Never ever. I’ve seen so many bad cases of it. I’ve been friends with the wife of this couple for decades now and I don’t want to destroy our friendship.
The last time we saw them and our husbands were talking about this in a very certain way, my friend turned to me and said in a near-whisper, “I will never, ever let this happen.” I was so relieved!
Anon
Never would I ever buy property with friends. Never ever in a vacation home. It’s a recipe for resentment and fights. Get your own or don’t bother.
Anonymous
I know a friend who did this with other friends and it’s worked out (5+ years now). However 3/4 people are lawyers, they bought it using an LLC and they have a super detailed, iron clad LLC agreement about use, maintenance, renting, selling, ability to buy each other out, etc. I don’t know that it would work without super clear protections and alignment in place on those things.
anon
I could use some perspective. I recently turned 44 and I feel like overnight, I barely recognize myself in pictures. It’s really messing with how I perceive myself. Is that what my aging face and body actually look like? I’m not sure if there’s anything I can really do, as I already try to take care of myself and dress well. Do I even see myself clearly? I look in the mirror and think I look fine, even good for my age, but photos show someone else who looks older, chunkier, wrinklier. I know cameras aren’t 100 percent accurate but I also don’t think they are total liars, either. Would love some wisdom on getting past this. It is very weird to me that I feel like a self-conscious teenager all over again. It took me a long time to come into my own and actually feel good about myself. Now I’m starting over.
PolyD
Photos are terrible. I think I look fine in the mirror and fine in real life, but I can’t take a good photo to save my life. Never could, even in my 20s. I always look cranky and stoned.
I also try to keep in mind that menopause (and perimenopause) is like reverse puberty. Remember those times as a teen when you felt totally ugly and everyone hated you? It wasn’t true then and it’s not true now. Stupid hormones.
Anonymous
46 and have felt this way, though haven’t done much about it. I know there are sites/social media accounts that demonstrate flattering poses for photos. My SIL has done pretty extensive research on this and somehow manages to look great in photos, while I look like an awkward giraffe. She is my age and we both carry weight in our hips, but you’d never know it from her photos.
I have also noticed that the height of the photographer relative to mine is critical to a good photo. I am very tall and my best friend is 5’0. Any photo she takes of me is an automatic throwaway. Her photos of our other friends/my kids are great.
Makeup goes a long way…but I refuse to wear it, so…that’s a me problem.
Nowadays when I look at photos of myself, I notice the wrinkles around the eyes (or the cellulite on my legs, hello recent hiking photos). Then I remind myself to focus on the memory — the smile of accomplishment on my face because I reached the summit of a difficult hike or the joy of a selfie with my daughter while eating ice cream on vacation. It doesn’t erase the “ugh I look old” feelings, but it does alleviate them.
NaoNao
I’m 44 as well and I have three passports that look like a series of those cautionary tale Reels about drug use demonstrated with mug shots– from a perky, fresh faced 21 year old to my “I’ll cut a b–” face now, so I 100% get what you’re talking about!
A couple things:
Firstly, most photographers are VERY far from professionals. The lighting, angle, composition, lens, and all that plays a huge role in how you look. So don’t rely on candid snaps from someone’s 2017 cell phone (or whatever) or how you look in the Zoom square screenshot to tell you how you really look.
Typically we’re perceived in motion and in context. Most people don’t meet you in photograph form unless you’re a public figure of some kind or something. A moving face that’s talking and laughing and looking right at you is totally different than a static shot–again, note by a non-pro!– and natural light or in-person perception I think helps many of us compared to photos.
I recently read something about phone cameras distorting features on selfies so badly people are getting rhinoplasties they don’t need (!!) and this really helped me because I have a strong nose and recently went down a “do I look manly!?!?” spiral based on…you got it, selfies. I suggest Googling one of those “compare lens sizes with selfies” or “what difference lenses make”–honestly the same person can look SUPER different with different focal lengths, it’s astounding.
Think about how (if you did) you used to wish your 21 year old self looked different. I know I despaired over my size 6 thighs which I would totally kill for now! Basically play the tape forward to when you’re in your 60s–will you wish you had lived and enjoyed your 40s and not spent them feeling sad because you’re not in your 20s? Probably! So try to live in the “now” as much as you can. :)
Anon
The selfie camera has the nose distorting property. I am used to it now but as a person who already has a prominent nose, it took some time to get used to it!
Anon
I also hate how I look in pictures unless I manage to pose exactly the way I do when looking into the mirror. There are lots of candid photos of me where I’m like, “do I really look that bad?” – my double chin is showing in a way it doesn’t when I look in the mirror, I’m not standing at a flattering angle to the camera, I’m mid laugh or mid conversation and not frozen into a nice smile.
But my husband, who I see every day with my own eyes and not in a mirror, and who I think is handsome at every angle, also hates pictures of himself. This has given me some perspective on why I hate my own pics. Don’t get me wrong, I still hate them, but I have more perspective now.
Anonymous
This is such a helpful post. I’m turning 53 in a few weeks. I gained some weight during 2020-2022 and even though it’s only one size it really bothers me. I can’t get it off despite earnestly trying but I still want to enjoy life. I don’t recognize my body and go down a spiral. On the other hand, I’m also trying to accept the size I am now and be grateful for all the things my body accomplishes. I so agree with the posts about the mirror, selfie and zoom distorting things. I love the point about think about how your 60 (or even 70) year-old-self would view you now. Let’s try to enjoy life!
Anon
I’ve determined that photos are completely unrelated to one’s appearance IRL. Some thoughts:
– Occasionally I’ll watch a gorgeous, charismatic actress on TV who I can’t take my eyes off of. When I google her she doesn’t look particularly special in still photos. How you carry yourself and your personality are a big part of your appearance
– Professional models often look severe or awkward in real life. Photogenic doesn’t always equal beautiful IRL
– I know women, especially in their 50s+, who I consider attractive and vibrant in person but they look a bit tired in photos
Photos are a way to capture memories. They’re not an accurate reflection of your looks or how others view you.
anon
Your last sentence? I need to etch that in a mirror. :)
Clara
Actually learning more posing and how influencers take pics has helped me a lot. Influencers take literally non stop pictures to get one that works. They pose in certain ways (some of which I’ve adopted), use good cameras, good lighting etc.
And yeah, our friends are generally not photographers. Of all the “event” pictures I’ve ever taken some of my favorites are by my dad and my uncle, the relatives who actually are amateur photographers and pay attention to angles etc.
Basically there is an art to taking photos, it’s not 100% realistic.
Anon
It’s the camera. My toddler is absurdly handsome. (I hope that’s okay to say.) In the professional shots they took at his daycare, he looks like he could be on a magazine cover. In about half the shots I take with the normal camera of my iPhone, he looks like a Mary Cassatt painting.
Selfies? It’s adorable when he plays with my phone and hits the button to take like thirty photos of himself all at once, but man they are so ridiculously unflattering. He doesn’t even look like the same kid.
I figure if that can happen to him, with his “won the genetic lottery” looks, it can happen to anyone.
Anonymous
I got Botox for this reason and I’m so grateful. It seems like such a Real Housewives thing, but honestly it makes me feel so much better about myself.