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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
This style from MM LaFleur is a part of their newest collection, and I’m really into this “kale” color for fall. I also love the flattering draping at the waist and the fact that it is MACHINE WASHABLE. I have a number of MMLF dresses made of this material in my closet and have found them to be incredibly easy to take care of. I toss them in the washer, hang them to dry, and they are generally wrinkle-free and ready-to-wear the next day.
This dress is $265 and comes in sizes 0P-18.
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(Hunting for more machine washable clothing? We feature some trendy washable workwear every Wednesday at CorporetteMoms, have listed the best brands for washable workwear, and occasionally do roundups of just washable basics for work outfits!)
Sales of note for 8.30.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off full-price purchase; $99 jackets, dresses & shoes; extra 50% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Final Days Designer Sale, up to 75% off; extra 20% off sale
- Boden – 20% off
- Brooks Brothers – Extra 25% off clearance
- Eloquii – Up to 60% off everything; extra 60% off all sale
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide; extra 60% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – Extra 20% off orders $125+; extra 60% off clearance; 60%-70% off 100s of styles
- Lo & Sons – Summer sale, up to 50% off (ends 9/2)
- Madewell – Extra 40% off sale; extra 50% off select denim; 25% off fall essentials
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Rothy's – End of season sale, up to 50% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear in the big sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 25% off regular-price purchase; 70% off clearance
- White House Black Market – Up to 70% off sale
Go for it
The waist drape on this dress is divine.
I want it, yet am refraining…. I do not need it. So hard to be a grown up!!
Anonymous
I love the draping too but not a fan of the color — which is a good thing for my wallet!
Anon
It’s nice but I need sleeves. Air conditioning is too cold.
Anon Doc
Same, but maybe a blazer with it. What color blazer would be best?
Ifiknew
We recently bought a home use with a great yard and pool. We want to host a labor day pool party but we’ve generally always had only one other family over. What do I serve for appetizers, dinner, and alcoholic drinks if party starts around 3 and ends by 7? Thinking about 8 adults and 8 kids ranging in age from 1-8 so dinner needs to be something easy to eat by 530 pm or so.. Our grill isn’t working so that’s out. Thanks in advance for ideas!!
Anon
No food suggestions, but I suggest hiring a local teen with lifeguard certification (who is not a party invitee) so you have peace of mind and enjoy the party worry-free. If you are already doing this, great!
Anon
This is ridiculous. Only Very Rich People could afford to do this for a casual backyard party. Everyone should watch their own kids. We had a pool throughout my childhood, as did many friends, no one hired a freakin lifeguard for a party, and all was fine.
Anonymous
+1 I would maybe consider this for a birthday party or like the whole grade end of year party where the child to adult ratio is way off, and you don’t know the kids/their families/their swimming skills all that well. But for a backyard family party, I would never consider this and would expect all parents to watch their kids.
Especially with the kids being 1-8, I’d imagine the younger kids at this party will require a parent in the pool with them at all times.
Anon
Yeah this strikes me as very OTT
Anonymous
When I was a kid we just sat in the cargo of area of the station wagon with no seatbelts, but that’s not really acceptable any more so maybe reconsider that line of thinking.
This is standard in my (not very rich) circles. If you want the adults to socialize at least a little, I’d strongly consider hiring a lifeguard. Also they’re usually only a hundred or two hundred bucks, so not a lot in the grand scheme of a party.
Op, I’d buy sparkling wine or rose and beer and then call a good local deli for a cold cut sandwich platter and cut up watermelon and ice cream sandwiches for dessert. Have fun!
Anonymous
$200 is not a lot in the scheme of a big Christmas party or something but would be a lottt for a casual backyard get together like this…
Anon
I can’t think of the last time I spent over $200 on a party. Most of the times, I spend between $100 and $150 for food and have no to little other costs. This would more than double the cost of any of my parties, and everyone in attendance would think it was overkill.
If you are routinely spending so much money on parties the $200 is nothing to the budget, I question your assertion that you’re not rich.
LaurenB
I think it depends on the crowd. If this is a crowd of parents some of whom are likely going to get right in the pool and play with / toss around th,e other children, I see no need for a lifeguard. If OTOH this is the kind of crowd where the parents will sit around drinking and are wearing clothing that makes it crystal clear they aren’t going in any pool, then a lifeguard isn’t a terrible idea.
Anonymous
That’s a good clarification, Lauren! My crowd is very much the former which is why my gut reaction was that a lifeguard is absurd but if your crowd is the latter than yeah not a bad idea. As I said below, it’s a know your friends situation!
ANON
Everybody was NOT fine. Some children drowned. Do you know how easy it is for kids to drown at any kind of pool party?
Anonymous
Then watch your d@mn kids if you’re this concerned!
Anonymous
The problem is that OP will be held responsible if one of her guests doesn’t watch their own kids, and she doesn’t really have control over that. That’s why this whole party is just a bad idea. Too many kids, too many parents, no one in charge.
Anon
Agree with anon at 12:51. This seems like a perfect recipe for adults all hanging out while it’s assumed that the kids are all doing some non pool activity but one sneaks into the pool or falls in or whatever. Too many people all having comfort that lots of other adults are around. Parents may (or may not) be actively watching kids during active pool time. But way too easy for someone to think their kid is no where near the pool and that to not be the case.
Anonymous
It’s a normal sized get together – 8 kids and 8 parents, not a huge rager. So many worry warts here! And I say this as a professional risk manager
Anon
And I didn’t wear a seatbelt and rode in the trunk of SUVs when there were like 7 kids getting driven in a five seater car. Obviously since none of us died, seatbelts are way over the top.
It was common for people to drink and drive when my parents were in their 20s and they don’t know anyone who died. Obviously MADD is way over the top.
We all know someone who smoked a pack a day and lived into their 80s. Obviously smoking isn’t that big of a deal.
Drowning is the number one cause of death in children 1-4 outside birth defects and for children 1-14 outside of car crashes. Water is dangerous.
Most of these drownings happen at gatherings like the OP described. Lots of adults around, some alcohol, everyone is a little too relaxed and assumes someone is watching the kids. Drownings are fast. And usually silent. If you’ve never taken your eyes off your children for 1 minute (someone can drown in less than 60 seconds) at a party, then I think you’re a liar.
This isn’t over the top. And the suggestions that people just watch their kids is pretty dismissive and naive to the realities of drowning.
Anne
We do this in our neighborhood, and we are not very rich or rich. There is usually a neighborhood kid who has been life guard certified we can pay $20 an hour to watch the pool. It adds a lot of piece of mind. Another option is pass the whistle – each adult takes 20 min rounds to watch the pool – during that time they stay right next to the pool and watch the kids.
BelleRose
The “pass the whistle” seems a quite reasonable middle ground
Anon
I agree with the suggestion of a lifeguard. I was at a party just like this were the kids were in the pool and the adults were watching their kids but also talking, and the next thing you know, there was a little girl at the bottom of the pool. Her grandma jumped in and saved her, thankfully she was ok, but it was so scary to think about what could have been.
If you’re so simplistic as to respond with “just watch your kids” then you probably don’t have kids. Things happen in seconds.
Anonymous
I agree with this suggestion, especially if alcohol will be served and/or you don’t know whether the kids are strong swimmers.
Anonymous
Lifeguard is super ridiculous.
Can you buy a cheap charcoal grill for hot dogs and hamburgers? Make a big salad and boil some corn on the cobb. For drinks get some beer, white wine, and hard seltzers. For a plus you can get some premade barbecue ribs and serve them. For apps, chips and dip is fine. Maybe some cut up veggies for the dip.
Anon
It many states, teens don’t get lifeguard certs until they are 16, so you may want to ask ASAP because in my state those kids are busy and have weekend plans booked already, either personal plans or sports or family plans already.
Seventh Sister
I’m GenX and think this is a fabulous idea. I’ve been at a large few pool parties where people did this and I really appreciated it. That said, all of my parental safety anxiety is based around water. I know my kids could be hit by cars or get a terminal disease or be in a plane crash, but I am much more sanguine about them biking to school than anything involving a water park.
Anonymous
I agree — hire a teen with a lifeguard certification — it shouldn’t be more than a regular babysitting hour or two.
In the alternative or as an also you might want to do a First Aid class like the lifeguards do also so you know what to do in the event of disaster.
and check your insurance. it is strict liability for pool owners.
A
I’d do sangria or mojitos.
Apps…. Veg crudites and dips, we also do Indian snacks, finger sandwiches.
Dinner….pasta salad, Mac and cheese for kids, pizza bar.
Anon8
Taco bar is my go-to. Virtually no prep besides making the meat and can accommodate any diet.
Cat
Agree with the suggestion to hire a lifeguard. Events like this, where maybe everyone assumes someone else is keeping an eye on the kids, are dangerous for water safety.
Bevs – for late afternoon, I would do low ABV drinks like beer, White Claws, maybe a pitcher of spritzes if you want to be fancy.
Food – do you have a great local pizza place? I’d get simpler pies for the kids and some more inventive ones for the adults, supplement with a giant bowl of salad.
anon
Be careful not to assume that the adults will exclusively eat the inventive ones ! In my experience, the “adult” food sits there picked at and the adults go for the kids’ dishes too, wiping it out early in the party. This is how I ended up with two party platters of mixed green salads leftover from a party of elderly lady relatives. Luckily we had cake, so nobody left hungry.
Woof
Sounds really great! If you do not hire a lifeguard, perhaps discuss child-watching with other parents and consider sitting on the edge of the pool (in shifts?) to watch the kiddos. As far as food goes: platters set out with crudite and dip, hummus and pita chips, and mini pb and j squares for the kids, cut up fruit skewers. Dinner: Taco bar and some sides and salads, like a bean salad and a slaw. Dessert: a variety of ice cream pops and treats, on sticks, always a hit. Beverages: lots of waters and sodas, beer and wine, maybe gin and tonics if that works for your tribe. Enjoy!
Anon
I’m not a tort lawyer but small kids + pool + adults drinking makes me so so nervous (ditto trampoline). How is your homeowners insurance? Umbrella policy? Pool alone to me is reason to up your insurance significantly.
Also: consider serving nothing stronger than basic beer (not high-test brewery versions). And lots of non-alc stuff.
Anon
This is why I’d want to hire a lifeguard, but inform all parents that they are responsible for their kid.
IL
I just discovered piquette last weekend. It’d make a good wine-like addition to a low ABV party! I’m a lightweight and it hardly gave me a buzz.
anonymous
Is there anything the ladies on this board can’t s*ck the fun out of!? No wonder so many of you have anxiety!
Anon
My thoughts exactly
Anon
This!
Anonymous
Lol +1
Anon
Hahah right!
Anon
There are a lot of lawyers here. We assess risk and likely outcomes with about the same amount of conscious effort as you do breathing.
Anon
I’m a lawyer for a company that makes things that blow other things up and this is OTT for me.
Anon
Your company is probably very well insured and has all sorts of safety protocols in place.
Some of us are lawyers and also parents and understand the realities of how easy it is for events like this to end in tragedy. And not because parents are being irresponsible but because it’s a natural thing that happens when many adults are around for there to be a sense of a diffusion of responsibility (the same reason why its usually more likely if only one person witnesses an accident they will help/call for help but if lots of people are there they all sort of assume someone else is or will do the helping). And also drowning happens so so fast. And there are small children involved. Better to be safe than sorry.
Anonymous
I mean I assume everyone invited is a friend and not a random person, so I guess know your friends here. Would be super effing weird in my circle to hire a lifeguard but we’d all be actively watching our kids (and an extra set of eyes on the other kids) and with kids 1-8, we’d all be in the pool with them too.
PoolAnon
This is every weekend at our neighbors house. Everyone watches their own kids, one parent in the pool and the other parent scanning the pool. Beer/seltzer/iced coffee/water are the beverages of choice. Everyone gets out of the pool to eat at the same time.
The homeowner sets the tone getting into the pool with the first kid that jumps in. I’m the out of pool parent and spend the evenings chatting while taking kid inventory. Our chairs face the pool.
Take out pizza and grocery store fruit/veggie/cookie trays are common. Popsicles for dessert.
anon
Seriously. Unless your friends are super irresponsible people, this is all so over-the-top. If my friends are watching their kids in the pool, they’re not going to be getting sloppy drunk, sheesh.
Anon
Yeah, I wonder if the people suggesting this have kids. This is common internet advice but not sure it’s something real non-rich people do.
anon
+1 We had an “open pool” a lot of weekends as we were the only people in our circle with a pool and we had a really hot summer. BYOB (we always had a baseline supply of bud light, seltzers and kids drinks though), watch your kids, provide burgers and dogs, but nothing over the top. I suppose it’s a know your circle kind of thing, but we’re pretty chill. Chips, salsa, popsicles, juice boxes, watermelon… poolside staples! Don’t over think this, OP.
LA Law
In my experience hiring a lifeguard is something parents do for birthday parties where the parents may not be around. It is not something people do for smaller parties where the number of adults is roughly the same as the number of parents and all of the kids have their own parents with them.
But then I live in Southern California and a LOT of my neighbors have pools and have get-togethers regularly. The adults are all going to be hanging out around the pool even if they are not in it, the food and drink will all be poolside, and the drinking is going to be one or two accompanied by food. The only people in the house will be the babies napping and the older kids watching a movie once they are tired out.
Anonymous
I’d do big salads, fruit, pizzas, and ice cream cake. I’d serve beer and wine. And I’d not invite any of these anxious buzzkills.
Anon
For me (as the host), not having a lifeguard would be the buzzkill because I want my adult guests to be able to spend more carefree time with the other adults. YMMV
Anonymous
Even if there’s a lifeguard you should still watch your kid???
Anon
Yeah this is the most irresponsible take here.
Anon
If that’s the case, make it a no kid party. A lifeguard isn’t going to babysit 8 kids.
Anonymous
Yep. Even if there is a lifeguard you still have to be within arm’s distance of a small child around a pool. During my daughter’s swim lesson a kid went under. Neither the instructor, who was working with another student, nor any of the lifeguards noticed. The kid’s parent jumped in and fished him out.
Anon
Not touching the lifeguard issue…
The answer is that you shorten the party and/or shift the times. Do it, say, 2-5, and that way everyone understands that they’re on their own for dinner and you aren’t trying to serve a meal at the end when people are tired/kids are fussy/some families have likely left already.
Put out an assortment of snacks that can sit out unattended and be fine. Serve only beer.
anon
Bravo….tremendous solution
Anon
Uh, that is not the answer? OP wants to have a long party and serve dinner. Sometimes the advice on here is just so bad
Mrs. Jones
This is the way. Plus wine.
Anon
+1 this is what I would do
Anonymous
I would keep it easy since everyone is probably stressed about the school year starting this week!
I’d order pizza for dinner (with a salad, either ordered or homemade).
For apps I’d keep it pretty simple and kid friendly: veggie tray, chops/salsa/guac, cheese or hummus or a fun dip and crackers. If you’re ambitious, maybe one fun app but otherwise simple.
Drinks: tbh, I haven’t been invited to any parties with a fun drink option since the DINK phase. Family parties are usually just wine/beer/seltzer in my circle, maybe some supplies for a gin and tonic but really kept basic.
Assuming this party is on Monday, I’d also make sure there’s plenty of adult friendly non-alcoholic drinks (maybe seltzer, iced tea aka not just juice boxes for the kiddos)
Sybil
Haha, kids around here have been in school 2-5 weeks already. I (midwest, two different states) always wondered where people actually started after Labor Day outside of books. Then a friend in MN said they start that late – I guess when you have to live through a MN winter, the kids deserve all the summer they can get.
Anonymous
I’m in PA, some public schools are starting to push the start date to before Labor Day but most public and all private and parochial in our area are next Tuesday or Wednesday.
Of course, pre season sports started 2 weeks ago but that’s usually just two 2-3hr practices
Seventh Sister
In MD in the 80s-90s we always started after Labor Day, except if Labor Day was super late (e.g., September 6 or something). In CA, the public schools seem to start earlier and earlier in August, which is super irritating to me as a parent. It’s the hottest part of the year, the summer is short anyway, and even if the actual school year doesn’t start until mid-August, the high school and middle school will have ridiculously early registration days (August 2 one year).
NYCer
Not what you asked, but I also strongly encourage lots of having lots of water and sparkling water. My friends are at the age and stage where we don’t drink much alcohol at a daytime party with kids present.
Anonymous
+1
Same with my crowd. A beer or two, sure but this is a family backyard party – no one is going crazy here.
We went pretty hard pre-kids and will do so on occasion now ( aka with a babysitter and a safe ride home!) but for a family event we may imbibe a bit but everyone stays sober.
Anonymous
Parents get drunk and ignore kids because teen life guard you( i.e. YOU) hire is responsible if anything happens.
Versus- Parents do not get drunk and responsibly watch kids. Parents are responsible.
Vote no lifeguard.
Anon
The only help I’d hire is a bartender and party helper to keep snacks fresh and take the load off hosting . . .
Anonymous
A bartender and party host for a casual backyard get together?!? Sometimes I can’t with this board…
Anon
This is what you can’t with?!
Anonymous
So 8 adults are coming and you’re recommending a bartender and party helper? Good grief.
Lorelai Gilmore
Hello! I am a fellow pool owner and here’s what I’d do.
1) On pool safety: I don’t think it’s OTT to hire a lifeguard. In my experience, most parents are absolutely thrilled when you have one, but it’s not expected. If you go the no-lifeguard route, I would have an actual conversation with each parent as they come in the door that makes it clear that they are responsible for watching their kids in the pool. Script: “Hi Jane! So glad you could make it. Just so you know, the pool rules are that there is no running around the pool area and parents are responsible for watching their own kids; we want to make sure that everyone stays safe.” Consider getting a cute sign that you can hang in the pool area with your pool rules (there are lots of options on Etsy or elsewhere).
2) Make sure all the kids know the pool rules too – including that they can’t go in the water unless they have a parent who has agreed to watch them.
3) On food, this is a pizza event. I’d have easy apps (tortilla chips and salsa, veggie platter) out when people arrive. I’d order pizza and have pizza and big salads and watermelon for dinner. Dessert can be popsicles.
4) A few other suggestions: buy a ton of lightweight pool towels to have on hand. We like the turkish towels. The big fluffy beach towels don’t dry fast enough and take up too much space. Also buy a pile of goggles and have them on hand – people always are losing/forgetting/fighting over goggles and I am too old to referee goggle fights. Be thoughtful about pool toys – in my experience, the big inflatables are really fun but tend to lead to kid fights. You can have that stuff, but you may need to be prepared to take them away. Finally, I highly recommend getting a good whistle. No matter how much you tell people to watch their kids, it is ultimately your house and you are responsible. Make sure you have a way to effectively call off fights, get kids to stop running, or enforce the rules.
Have a great time! Our pool has been amazing for our social life :)
Anon
I might actually lose an eyeball if someone implied that I was so dumb they had to explain to me that I was responsible for watching my own child around a pool.
Anonymous
Sameee
Anonymous
I would be offended too, but on the other hand I am related to way too many people who think that a pool gathering is a dedicated time especially for them to kick back, have a drink or two, and assume that someone else is watching their kids. I think you really have to spell it out. I would also require puddlejumpers on all non-swimmers in and out of the water.
Anon
This! I wish all parents were responsible and would know basic stuff. I’d much rather offend someone with a reminder about pool safety than have a kid die in my backyard. Sorry not sorry
Anonymous
This is not about being dumb, it’s about a diffusion of responsibility. When you have lots of people around, it’s easy for people to conclude that someone else is watching their kid. That’s how kids drown. I’d rather be explicit and awkward than be polite and end up with a dead kid. Also, as someone who owns a pool and has had this conversation many times, it is not awkward. People like clarity.
Anonymous
Based on these comments, I don’t think you can have this pool party. Now or ever.
Anonymous
When the kids are all 8 years old it’s a lot safer.
Anon
Actually, fill the pool with concrete.
Anonymous
Lol!
Seventh Sister
In my experience, I always tend to buy way more drinks than people actually drink in the course of a party. I’d buy stuff I wouldn’t mind drinking in the month or so afterwards. More beer than wine, more juice boxes than sodas, some bottled waters.
Anon
We had a poop growing up. Pool rule was that you HAD to be in a life jacket on the pool deck or in the pool unless you could swim, unaided, the length of the pool and back. So everyone had to demonstrate that they could swim a lap at the start of the summer. Otherwise, life jackets on at all times, even if sitting next to the table and eating chips.
Anon
A pool. A pool growing up….
Anon
Best comment of the day
anon
If you lived in DC and moved to the local burbs, where did you go? We are in DC with two elementary aged kids and I am so worried about our school options and growing violence. We are interested in moving west of the park, but it seems like a totally different world over there. We would love to stay in the city, but I feel like we would pour everything we have into a house only to get mediocre schools and no diversity west of the park. Oldest is in third grade, so we have time, I am hoping we win the school lottery. Sorry, just ranting, totally overwhelmed. I just want to live in a house, not have to worry about constant gun violence, have access to good schools, in an engaged, diverse and progressive community. Where does this exist?
A + Fed
Annapolis/Severna Park
Anonymous
That’s quite the commute
Anon
Alex. There are areas in both Alex City and FFX Cty that you can find diversity in at least socioeconomics, where more modest homes are districted with grander ones.
Liza
Arlington?
Arlington
We moved to Arlington. N Arlington is not as diverse as S Arlington. We put our kids in the Spanish Immersion program and that has worked out for us for a number of reasons, including a significantly more diverse set of friends. Commute is short to downtown when we need to go in and we’re close enough that we still go into the District proper for dinner/Kennedy Center/museums. Public transportation into DC can be great to way-too-long-you-want-a-car, depending on where in Arlington you live (basically, how far from a bus line that can take you in or to the metro).
Anonymous
We bought in Woodside Park, very close to downtown Silver Spring, about a year ago and are really happy with it.
Anon
Also in Woodside and very happy. We were commuting by metro daily before the pandemic, and now drive in once weekly. We like the proximity to SS with a neighborhood feel, and though our kid is too young for school plan to have them start in the public elementary.
Anon
Arlington.
anonymous
The “progressive” part is the reason DC is overrun with violence.
Anon
The poverty stricken part is the reason DC is overrun with violence.
anon
This take is so popular, yet so offensive to law-abiding poor people.
Anon
That is like arguing that stating that most sexual assaults are committed by men is insulting to law abiding men. Most poor people are law abiding. Tragically they are also likely to be disproportionately impacted by crime.
But ignoring the interrelation between poverty, lack of education, drug addiction and crime is to ignore a whole plethora of studies exploring that relationship, both in the US and other countries. It also leaves the door wide open for racists and people blaming some nebulous “progressive politics” (which usually means Democrats – which is fairly silly given the urban/rural divide between the parties).
Anon
Takoma Park, and also considered Silver Spring. Lots of people move to NoVa, but when I looked it was as expensive as west of the park and not any more diverse. If I was able to spend $1m+, I would rather stay in the city. But I’m not, so i moved to Maryland. Many of the Maryland suburbs are still cheaper, leading to more diversity.
S
Takoma Park or Silver Spring, Rockville as back-up.
Anonymous
South Arlington! Been here for many years after living in several DC neighborhoods and really love it, especially with young kids.
Anon
Easy answer for your criteria is Takoma Park!
Anonymous
We moved to Takoma Park. I liked the town very much, but even being literally next to DC, the commute killed me (I had a mile walk/bike ride/bus trip to the metro to go downtown). We left the area altogether after a few years but the reasoning was way more complicated than commute.
Anon
I have straight hair. If ever I was to pick out, it should be now that “Love Story” style hair is trendy. But I cannot pull it off. Any humidity, my hair fuzzes up just to the point of puffy vs sleek. And I have baby hairs and a few cowlicks. It just looks sad. Is there a product that will help? I never had cool hair and now I feel close enough but yet so far. Hair is fine and oily, if that matters, so I wash it every day. Only some long layers. No bangs.
Anon
What do you mean “pick out”? I associate that with Afro hair, not straight hair
Anon
Typo! LUCK out.
Anon
Even if it’s straight you need to flat iron it. That should combat most of the frizz issue.
anon
I have the save hair type. Try the Paul Mitchell skinny serum. Flat iron on the pieces closest to the face.
But honestly, I decided to rock the short hair a long time ago because when it was long, I could never get it the way I wanted it.
Ribena
You don’t need to flat iron it. A good ‘hair gunk’ type product smoothed through your hair and a mist of hairspray before you go out is much quicker and less fuss. You might even find that with the right products your hair is actually curly – mine fits your description and with Bumble and Bumble light curl cream or Umberto Giannini curl jelly I get lovely ringlets.
Anon
Is there an adult version of monkey bar buddies, the undershorts girls wear under school outfits? My middle school girl wants some but is in a womens xs. Bike shorts often don’t lay right. Thigh society undershorts seem too long or too sheer (had her try mine). Is there maybe something for dance wear or other sports that we should try? She wore too-small jeans shorts under a skirt today and it was lumpy and could not have been comfortable (“IT’S FINE” was said in a huff).
Cb
I feel like you might try a few brands of bike shorts. I see loads of people in bike shorts as shorts, and some of them are very (very!) light weight that they wouldn’t interfere with clothes.
Cat
check JCrew’s “active swim bike short”? They are the shape of bike shorts but without any of the padding. Small sizes available and on super sale in a few colors.
Anonymous
https://www.capezio.com/boy-cut-low-rise-shorts
Liza
The term that seems to be used for this product in women’s sizes is “slip shorts.” Amazon has a bunch, like:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VPHSRT3?pd_rd_i=B07VQK3K3Q&pf_rd_p=7e505763-fc2b-4771-871e-c8789cf7e144&pf_rd_r=G9VBN831WV9Y851GW6XX&pd_rd_wg=PAH5Q&pd_rd_w=2IGa8&pd_rd_r=c79d1704-c7fc-463a-8726-9234ea2e0704&th=1&psc=1
Anon
ANY dance or cheer store or website will have options galore. Think about what cheerleaders or competitive dancers wear. You want a practice version of that. Even gymnasts wear them for practice more often than leotards now. You can probably even pick them up at Target.
Anonymous
We used to wear “soffe shorts” under skirts in middle/high school (I think they’re generically called cheer shorts?). We got them at the athletic store.
Josie P
Different brand of bike shorts? I got my 10yo some at TJ Maxx, Laundry I think, and those are the ones she wears the most.
anon
I like the Nikepro shorts, and they last really well. They come in a bunch of sizes, lengths and patterns, including itty bitty. I often wear them on their own, but they are good under stuff. Super comfortable and don’t ride up on me, which many others do.
DC pandas
+1 In high school, we all wore Nike pros under our uniform skirts.
Anon
+1 to Nike Pro shorts. I played lacrosse in school, and we all wore these under our skirts. If she wants something a little thicker, lululemon (and I’m sure other brands) makes some yoga shorts that would fit the bill.
Anonymous
My teen wears the really short Nike Pros under her dresses.
BB
Try Jockey’s Skimmies. I got those first before I found out about Thigh Society and I didn’t like them because they were too thick. But sounds right for what you’re looking for!
Acsb
Old Navy goes up to an XXXL, I think, online. My middle school daughter who wears a 4ish in womens can still wear those. But YES! Just because she’s now taller than me doesn’t mean she wants to dress like an adult; she’s 12! (I’m talking to you, crop tops)
Anonymous
Jockey skimmies.
Notintsafamous
I have a pair of lululemon align shorts that might fit this need! I think they’re the 6″ mid-rise ones, but they’re a few years old now so look and see what they have?
Anonymous
My daughter would wear her dance shorts. They lay flat and are short enough. Just look up “dance shorts” we would get them from various dance websites, depending on which site had a sale.
Anon
I wear Jockey Skimmies partially for this purpose.
In middle school/high school, the go-to’s under our uniform kilts were either under armor compression shorts, soffee shorts or men’s boxer shorts with fun colors/prints.
Ribena
I used to wear cycle shorts from Forever 21 for this; they were in the ‘jersey basics’ section. Or cheap jersey cycle shorts of the kind we had to wear under netball skirts for school PE lessons. I now instead wear Snag Tights chub rub shorts which are just like the top 12 inches of a pair of tights.
Anon
My daughter played high school and club field hockey, which is usually played in a skirt, at least for games and tournaments. They all wore spandex shorts under the skirts. In fact, they all just called them “spandex”. They were very short in the inseam because the field hockey skirts weren’t very long.
When we went shopping for any field hockey related stuff, there were always piles of these spandex shorts alongside the skirts. Cal cup, the biggest fhock tournament in the world, had a section of booths with vendors selling stuff, and just about every other booth sold spandex shorts.
My daughter’s favorite ones were Nike brand because they stayed in place the best. All of hers were black.
She’s in college now and not playing, but she still wears her spandex under skirts.
Anonymous
I have been in 9 weddings in the last 10 years. I’m still close with all but one of the brides, I have moved a lot as an adult so we live in different cities but talk at least every week. Most of my friends/these brides know of each other but haven’t met. My boyfriend wants to get married next year. We are planners so he is thinking formal proposal over the holidays but he wants to reserve a venue soon. He has 3 close friends who he would want to have stand up with him. How do I pick who stands up with me? I’ve never seen a majorly lopsided bridal party but it is really hard for me to whittle it down to 3 or find “jobs” for the other 6. Some have kids by now, none of us party the way we used to, I just don’t want to hurt anyones feelings and legitimately am not sure how to pick.
Anon
are there any family members you need to include? also- i dont get the whole reserve a venue before proposing. personally i think that is strange. i think in this case you either each ask no one, or you have a ‘lopsided’ wedding parties. i went to a wedding with 18 bridesmaids and 6 groomsmen. Everyone walked down the aisle in same gender pairs- so like two girls walked together, two guys, and then rather than standing up beside them at the ceremony, there were chairs for the wedding party to sit. it was totally fine, other than the fact that it took FOREVER due to the ridiculous size of the wedding party (they were each one of four, so all of their siblings were in the wedding as well and if you ask me they should’ve just stuck with that). in your shoes if you want to ask all 9 of them, or 8 of them, i’d go for it
JTM
My husband and I booked our venue and our photographer before he “officially” proposed. For us, we had a very specific wedding date & didn’t want to miss our first choice venue/photographer by waiting; and he wanted to wait to officially propose until he moved to my city – he wound up proposing 2 days after he moved.
Anonymous
Tbh I think this is a lot of why people have stopped doing bridal parties.
NYCer
+1. I would skip bridesmaids and groomsmen all together.
Anon
Yea my vote is to stop having bridal parties all together. If you don’t want to do that, then have a lopsided party or talk to them individually. They may not want to deal with the hassle of being a bridesmaid especially if they have a lot of other responsibilities, kids, job, other family members, etc.
Anon
I’d go with one on each side and make everyone else a guest. This is how most wedding went after the initial 20s round. Even better if you have a sister or cousin to avoid hurt feelings.
Liza
Honestly I think you could easily do 6 and it wouldn’t look weird at all – each groomsman could escort 2 ladies down the aisle. Does your husband have any relatives who could round out his side, such as a cousin or uncle? I think it’s always safe to pick relatives – one way or another, they’re almost always going to be in your life.
Liza
ETA – your male relatives could also work too, if they are close to you and know your bf and get along with him.
TO No-Longer-Junior
This is what we did. 3 for my husband, 6 for me. My husband and his groomsmen were waiting at the front of the aisle and my bridesmaids walked down by themselves. On the way out each groomsman escorted two bridesmaids down the aisle. It looked lovely, no weirdness at all.
Cat
tbh I would do one attendant each, or even none. Consider it a gift to your friends that they don’t have to buy the dress, be “on duty” for fun wedding events, and can spend time with each other and their partners on your big day.
anon
Yes! My close friend is getting married this year and decided on a small bridal party. She thought people might feel left out but we were so relieved! It’s easier (and cheaper) to show up at the scheduled start time in your own clothing but most people are polite enough to act excited about the bridesmaid thing. If you want to include your friends you can still invite them to your bachelorette party or a “dress reveal” right before the ceremony.
anon
Either your boyfriend picks a few more, or you decide to have a suuuper small wedding party (like 1-2 attendants each).
I don’t understand reserving the venue before proposing. Just … propose now?
Cat
oh yeah, I overlooked that point. Like, if you’ve reserved a venue, you are in fact engaged. Why the fuss over a holiday “let’s get engaged then” thing?
Anonymous
Insta.
Anon
I get that this is not what some people would do, but maybe OP and her significant other want to do the ring in front of family or have it tied to a big event. Proposals in general probably shouldn’t be a complete surprise, in that both people should be in on the decision to get married.
But what does it hurt for them to do the engagement ring portion like they want and would find meaningful?
Anon
Amen
Anon
Because they want to. What do you care?
Anon
Why do you care? It literally impacts you zero what order these people get engaged and book a venue.
Anon
1) Lopsided is really ok, especially if it’s a perfect 2:1 ratio
2) it’s ok to not have all these women as bridesmaids – I had two friends who were bridesmaids for me who didn’t have me in their weddings and I wasn’t hurt.
anon
Ditto to your second point. Not hurt at all and they’re two of my very best friends to this day.
Anonie
I am an extrovert with a large group of girlfriends and hate leaving anyone out of anything (probably stems from me being a lonely child who often felt left out ha) and my husband is an introvert who wanted zero groomsmen. We found a perfect solution for us. I had a ridiculously huge group of girls who all wore dresses the same color and length (but any style, brand, or price point they liked), we all did our hair and makeup and had a day-of brunch together on my dime, took pictures together, and my husband and I just had our parents and siblings stand around us during the ceremony. No lopsided group pics. Granted, everything about our wedding was non-traditional since we had a private ceremony during the pandemic and this was an anniversary reception, but it was a perfect solution for us. We ended up having a tragedy in the family recently and soon after lost one of the immediate family members who stood around us, making those pictures all the more meaningful. We will treasure those ceremony photos forever, but I also loved having the experience of a getting ready with a group of my favorite women.
(I also see no problem with slightly lopsided bridal parties in general, but we thought it would have been a little odd for me to have a big group and him to have zero.)
Allie
We did not do a bridal party but everyone important had a role in the wedding day (from toasts, to standing up with us, to doing a reading, to getting ready with me etc.). Definitely have all 9 ladies get ready with you! Have one or two stand up with you, have one or two more do readings or toasts. Tell them this is what you’re doing.
anon
It’s more of a Southern thing, but I would do a house party with the large gaggle of friends and then only have one or two in the actual bridal party. I know plenty of people that do this to justify having just family in the bridal party while still honoring the friend group. Some people do it with the house party having dresses in a similarly inspired vein but not identical. Think of the house party as who you invite to the bachelorette party, but pick the wedding party based on who are the people that would fly across the country to hold your hand in a waiting room.
Of Counsel
(1)I would start by talking to each one individually and asking if they want to be in your wedding party. Especially the ones who might now have small children or who live far away might appreciate being a guest but not having any other obligations. Frame it as I love you, I want you to be there, I want you to stand with me if it is convenient for you but I will completely understand if you feel like it would be too much. Personally, I love weddings and I love standing up with friends and family but if this site has taught me nothing else it is that many people secretly hate weddings and view attending them at all – much less as a member of the wedding party – to be an unconscionable burden.
(2) There is nothing wrong with lopsided wedding parties. Do you and be glad you have friends you love.
(3) Ignore the people complaining about reserving a venue before becoming “officially” engaged. Again, do you. People on-line can be hateful for absolutely no reason, particularly when they can do so anonymously.
Congratulations!
Peloton
Do you actually want to have a bridal party at all? We didn’t. We did invite our closest friends to the rehearsal dinner, though, and my closest female friends were invited to get ready with me if they wanted. We just avoided the “up at the front” part.
Fallen
Any favorite movie/shows suggestions? Looking to something new to watch w/husband (our thing is to watch a show and/or movie after dinner and are out of ideas – started sweet magnolias yesterday but didn’t get into it)
Liza
We are currently enjoying “For All Mankind,” on Apple TV+, about the space race and interesting alternate timeline world building.
Would be helpful to know what genre/types of shows you like!
Cb
How are you on subtitles? Maybe Borgen?
Anon
It’s also dubbed on Netflix, though the dubbing and captions seem to be running off different translations, so it’s funny to see how they differ.
Anon8
Kinda tough to know what you’d like without knowing your taste, but here are some random suggestions:
What We Do in the Shadows is hilarious and lighthearted. A mockumentary about totally incompetent vampires.
White Lotus was fantastic – part drama part comedy. The characters and cast were enthralling, totally binge-worthy and not a ton of episodes.
Severance – sci-fi, psychological thriller. Trying to figure out what’s happening is fun, it’s creepy without being gorey or outright scary and although wildly different setting and plot it kind of reminded me of season one of Westworld.
Succession – probably my favorite show of the last few years. It takes a little while to get into but so worth it. The only show that I can’t stop thinking of in between episodes. I feel like there’s a lot to discuss about this show too, which makes it fun to watch with someone.
Fallen
We honestly are all over the place. Some recent ones we loved loved are White Lotus, Inventing Anna, Never Have I Ever, Ozark, Greys (watched all 18 seasons!)
Anon
I second the nomination for Succession. Based on the shows you like, I think you’d really be into it. Give it 2-3 episodes to get into the groove. I’m obsessed.
Anonymous
Lol
Girl
All of
Our “thing” is to turn on the tv after dinner
Anon
My bf and I were obsessed with The Old Man. Probably one of my favorite shows now.
PolyD
Never Have I Ever? Very sweet and funny. Flight Attendant? Kind of ridiculous, but fun to watch.
For very soothing, James May has a series on Amazon Prime, in one season he visits Japan and another he visits Italy. Along those lines, Somebody Feed Phil is also a fun travelogue kind of show, with food.
I really like What We Do in the Shadows. If you like animated, Solar Opposites is twisted but fun. Archer also started a new season recently.
PolyD
Wow, I can’t wait to find out what triggered moderation for this comment.
pugsnbourbon
PolyD, have you seen the series where James May puts things together in his garage? It’s the closest thing to ASMR I’ve ever experienced. We watched it on YouTube.
He also has a cooking show. I have a slight crush on James May.
PolyD
Yes, I did! Also the cooking show – enjoyed both.
I realize Jeremy Clarkson is controversial, but I also liked Clarkson’s Farm, on Prime. He was very humble about his complete lack of farming knowledge.
Anon
I watched all of flight attendant, but I found it so stressful!!
Anon
A few recent favorites:
For All Mankind (Apple): alternate history of space exploration
Abbot Elementary (Hulu/HBO): especially funny if you have teachers in your life or work in government
Better Call Saul (AMC): better than Breaking Bad
Blackbird (Apple): grim, but the acting is fantastic
Slow Horses (Apple): British spy comedy
Dark Winds (AMC): based on the Tony Hilleman books about Navajo cops
anonymous
Netflix:
The Queen’s Gambit
Dead to Me
Squid Game
Santa Clarita Diet
Trainwreck: Woodstock 99 (only three episodes, but very interesting)
Haunting of Bly Manor
Ozark
Inventing Anna
Outlander
HBO:
Barry
True Blood
Apple
Ted Lasso
Anonie
My husband and I both loved Severence (dystopian thriller with humor and heartache mixed in); Succession (perfect balance of corporate and family drama, often sad but also often hilarious); The Outlaws (funny with lots of action as a band of misfits do illegal things for “good” reasons and become close friends); and Trying (sweet, funny, heartfelt story about a couple that wants to become parents). We also just started Bad Sister and we are obsessed so far…only the first few episodes have come out.
Anonymous
comedies:
Our Flag Means Death
Ted Lasso
Abbott Elementary (very similar vibe to the Office but elementary school)
Arrested Development if you haven’t seen
mystery:
Only Murders in the Building (so good!)
Why Didn’t They Ask Evans (just started the new Hugh Laurie written/directed one)
heavier:
Cherynobl
Dopesick
sci fi:
the newest Star Trek one is awesome, Strange New Worlds I think (thank u Senior Attorney for the rec!)
Shadow & Bone
Wheel of Time
reality:
Down to Earth with Zac Effron (I swear it’s strangely good although the sidekick dude is annoying)
Lego Masters
Great British Baking Show
Anon
My favorite recent watches: Minx, Hacks and Sex Lives of College Girls on HBO, Impeachment: American Crime Story and Abbott Elementary on Hulu.
pugsnbourbon
My wife and I are watching Reservation Dogs and it’s so, so good. Funny with an occasional gut punch.
Anon
I liked this show, but felt like the fact that it got so much hype actually meant that I enjoyed it less because it didn’t quite live up to expectations. I felt the same about Severance and White Lotus- enjoyed them, will definitely watch another season, but they fell a bit flat because that they weren’t quite as amazing as what I’d been expecting based on other people’s reactions. So in that spirit, I recommended all three of these shows, just don’t expect them to be the best thing you’ve ever seen and you’ll probably enjoy them more than I did!
AnonQ
The Tourist on HBO. Very bingeable, excellent cast. It’s a thriller but with a surprising amount of dark and quirky humor.
anon
We were a bit late to it, but recently we binged Succession and Billions. Great shows. Also loved Only Murders in the Building and The Bear.
Seventh Sister
I like Industry (or as we’ve been calling it around the house, H—- Young Bankers). It’s sort of Succession-y, but a little less comical and more of a workplace drama than a family business story. Another one that
I avoided for many months but is actually fantastic is Dopesick. I thought it would be too sad, but it’s more like a crime procedural than a drama that goes from terrible tragedy to terrible tragedy.
Anon Atty
I was definitely going to recommend Industry (HBO) as well! About to finish Tokyo Vice (also HBO) and highly recommend.
Seventh Sister
I loooooved Tokyo Vice. Super excited it got picked up for another season.
Eliza
We really loved The Last Kingdom. A great story, characters to care for, and action that’s fun to follow.
Anon
Does anyone know when a personal bankruptcy goes on your credit — is it when you file? Or when you get the final judgment or whatever? And how long is it on your credit? And the. How public is your filing? I live in a small town and my ex may likely snoop and use it to stir up trouble.
Anon
It is public on PACER from the day of filing. Your credit report is not public – and if your ex is running your credit without your permission, that’s a problem.
Anon
He could but I more want to know in case I have to do things like when I can no longer likely buy a car or rent an apartment, etc. ugh.
Anon
I was able to get an apartment three years after going through bankruptcy. Either the building manager didn’t notice or didn’t care. I was careful to dress for the office when I visited the place for a tour with her, however.
Anon
Anon above: I mean, I dressed well. Cashmere, nice overcoat, nice shoes.
Anonymous
Anon for this. In the last five or so years, I find that I’ve become a much softer person due to some career setbacks, a few others scares, and the pandemic. Softer meaning I’m much more content running my own race, care very little about what others are doing or competing with them, and have an understanding that everyone has their own challenges so don’t judge. A weekend with family and friend left me drained, as the vast majority of conversation in my family and friend circles is who bought a big house, which sucker is still renting, who bought a vacation house, whose husband makes no money, who isn’t as rich as they act, you get the point. I legit have one friend and one acquaintance who aren’t like this. They are genuinely support of others and too busy with their own races to tear down others. My closest friend is the type who acts like she supports others and then when something good happens to others in our circle like a huge promotion or buying a house and she is then itching to find out the details and then acts “relieved” as she puts them down along the lines of – oh 400k isn’t THAT much money (it is in our industry), a 2000 sqft house isn’t big, or oh they moved out to the country to buy a 3000 sqft house when the people have moved into the metro NYC suburbs.
WWYD here? Partly this feels like a me problem because if I act all zen, then friends and family move on without me and I’m left with no circle. But then I also don’t have any interest in discussing that a cousin can’t afford to buy a house because her husband allegedly brought zillions in student debt into the marriage or whatever.
Anon
Find a new circle? Honestly, that conversation sounds boring to me, so I wouldn’t want to hang out with those people much anyway.
Anon
+1 – ick
Anon
+2
Anon
This. Join Rotary or a running club or something. If people are snobby, join a different one.
anon
This is the way. These people sound insufferable.
Allie
+5 – maybe try to make friends through service opportunities? Sounds like a new focus is in order.
Bonnie Kate
+1 I wouldn’t dramatically drop them or do it right away, but I’d work on finding a new circle and drift into that one, away from the current group of unhappy people.
My personal favorite way to find my people is through going consistently group classes, specifically small yoga studio classes. Some studios/gyms have weird vibes, just move on from those until you find one that feels good, then just keep showing up to events/workshops/classes. Also joined a community volunteer organization and got involved in the leadership through a small role, and now have a whole community there.
Also congratulations on being a much more enjoyable person and finding your own way!
find new friends
I grew up around so much negative talk and am really grateful to now have a social circle that doesn’t view judging people as normal light conversation.
It’s taken some getting used to, but has been amazing for me and my approach to life.
Anon
Work on making new friends.
Anonymous
Start backing away from your family and existing friends and that’ll give you the space you need to start meeting new people. You’ve already seen from your one friend that there ARE people that are not judgy gossips and not competitive, so it’s just a matter of meeting a few more. Being raised in a culture that pretty much espouses the – put everyone down to make yourself look best – view, it is mentally exhausting and people like this do not change. It’s mentally healthier to NOT be around this.
No Face
Some people play prominent roles in our lives for just a season. These were your main friends in an old chapter of your life, and now you need new ones to match the person you’ve become.
Anonymous
well said
Anon
I’m also running my own race these days (self employed, focused on work life balance and getting my kids through college.) I’m toward the end of my career and on what I call my glide path to retirement.
I recently had a dinner with three former colleagues. The entire conversation was “catching up” with each other about former colleagues and where they are now, but all my friends talked about was how much money these other people had and how much money they were making. And then they’d talk about other former colleagues who had died. Since we are in our 50s, it was a bunch of people who had died too young.
It was hard not to see the irony in all of this. I sadly just lost another former colleague recently, one I was close friends with, and it just reinforces to me that it’s important to live now and not just keep sacrificing time to chase money.
Not everyone is going to have the same perspective.
Anonymous
Talk to me about family vacations. Just got back from a week in a local beach town and I was totally miserable. I have two young kids and the house we rented was very uncomfortable, cluttered and dusty. It was clear that the place had been cleaned but not deep cleaned and it just grossed me out.
I hate the idea of a single hotel room for all four of us but I just can’t deal with the level of gross I’m getting from air b and bs. My husband only spent about 450 per night, so it was affordable but awful. I’ve stayed in rentals that were more like a business than someone’s actual house and liked those better but I still don’t love the cleanliness level. My girlfriend and her family recently did what seemed like a more glamorous vacation rental but the pictures she shared also kind of grossed me out.
Is there a way to throw money at this? I think part of the problem is that my husband just seems to think a family vacation should cost less than 3k but we make decent money (450k/year) and are meeting financial goals, but still a suite at a nice hotel is a non- starter. I think part of the pinch is that with my little guy in school we need to go during peak times and he feels like a sucker paying so much “ just to sleep.” What is a reasonable amount to spend for a week away?
Anonymous
At least where I’m from, pretty much the only way to do a beach vacation is to rent a house. Some houses (like the one my parents own) and family houses that are rented out some times and used by the family other times. Others are owned by people but totally managed by a rental company and some are both owned and managed by a company. Sounds like you’d be most comfortable in the latter. But, just because a house is owned/operated by the owners and not a professional rental doesn’t mean it’s less clean. My parents used to get professional cleaners to clean their place between renters and they stopped when they realized we did a better job! We have 1 or 2 people cleaning for 3 hours and it’s spotless. But, it’s also a home and feels homey and not sterile like a rental but sounds like that’s what you’d prefer!
Piper Dreamer
Sorry this may not be the answer you are looking for but we only book suites now. Short of that, I would take a room with balcony if it’s a summer vacation. Short of that, I would budget $100-150 and book a local babysitter so you get one night out after the bed time. Sometimes, it means our trip is shorter in duration but it’s so much more enjoyable…
Anon
Look at resorts with kitchens and separate bedrooms. Westgate, Wyndham, all inclusive resorts. They will have stuff for your kids to do (arcades, mini golf, pools), and you can enjoy the surrounding area.
$450k a year is a LOT of money. It might not be “rich private island” money, but you can spend an extra thousand dollars on vacation to not be grossed out.
Anonie
Yes! I commented below but the average household income in the US is about $67,500 according to the US Census Bureau. I see several conflicting stats about average hotel room costs but it looks like the average cost of 1 hotel room in the US is about $125 a night. Multiply that by 2 for 4 people and the average cost should be $250 a night for a group of 4. So, the OP makes about 6 and a half times the average household income but is spending less than 2X the average hotel stay cost…OP, I am saying this not to be judgmental but simply to point out that you can easily afford a stay that you actually enjoy. (Note that I was an English major so fingers crossed my math is right!)
Anon
Right – she outearns over 95% of Americans and acts like a Residence Inn suite is beyond their means. I understand frugality, living within ones means, and not assuming that you’re rich, but it gets obnoxious.
ANON
It is so unreal that I feel like we are being trolled.
Anon
Throw more money at it, go somewhere cheaper, stay for less time, or stay at a less nice hotel. I’ve never spent anywhere close to $450 a night on any kind of hotel, but I also don’t make anywhere near your income. Just decide what matters most and budget accordingly.
Anon
yes, this. growing up we often shared a room with two double beds for vacations. my mom ended up getting sick and dying shortly after she retired, and they had plenty of money, though i know it is easier to look back and see that you have plenty of money vs. when you are still worried about paying for childcare, college, etc., but my mom said the one thing she wished they’d done differently money wise was get two hotel rooms when traveling
Anon
Money solves this problem.
Cat
So, it sounds like you got a bad Airbnb. Not all of them are awful. How did you choose the one you picked? Did you go over the photos carefully, read the reviews, message the host to test communication? Did you filter for Superhosts aka people who manage rental properties, vs. someone trying to make a buck off their own lived-in space? Or did you say “oh that one’s in the budget and in the right town so we’ll go for it”?
But, tbh, the inflated pricing at local beach towns (are you talking Jersey / DE / MD shore?) is so bad for what you get, especially in peak August season, that we find it to be a break-even to fly somewhere more interesting and get the same type of lodging for half the price.
pugsnbourbon
+1. I’m not sure if you went through AirBNB or if you’re just saying that for reference, but not all vacation rental sites are created equal. We’ve done three vacations via VRBO rentals and had a great experience. In your shoes and with your $, I’d make sure the place I was renting was professionally owned and operated. Or as a poster above said, look at hotels with suites/apartments/bungalows. I stayed at a hotel for work once with a kitchen and living area – it was bigger than my first apartment!
pugsnbourbon
Oh – and spend more money! We budget up to 3k for vacations and it’s just the two of us (flights, lodging, meals/experiences).
Bonnie Kate
+1 DH and I book Airbnbs a lot and are almost always happy with the experience, however we’re picky and very thorough at vetting. My inlaws have ended up in some not great Airbnbs because they aren’t as thorough.
I also think perhaps you should look at other locations that aren’t as costly and your money goes further. If the area you’re going to doesn’t have suites for less than $400-500/night, then look somewhere else. The good news is it sounds like getting a “deal” is important to your husband, so by switching locations he’ll feel like he’s getting a bargain and you’ll get to stay in a nicer place.
Anon
There’s no one answer to what is a reasonable amount, but I think it’s clear you need to spend more money to be satisfied.
Anonymous
Get a suite at a less-nice hotel. Something like a Residence Inn would probably meet your needs.
Anon
I strongly prefer hotels to Airbnbs.
Honestly, for $500/night you can get a suite hotel room in a lot of places. The exception that is in Europe (where hotel rooms tend to be smaller) and we usually make do in one room. We only have one kid, but I don’t think two kids makes staying in one room impossible. You can normally get two beds and the kids can share a bed.
But yes, you probably need to up your vacation budget. We make a third of what you do and spend far more than $3k on vacations.
Anonymous
Yes the answer is you rent a much more expensive house or you stay in a hotel.
Anon
I have done a few VRBO’s and only one was what I would say needed a deep clean. I commented on VRBO that it needed a deep clean. I don’t know how you could tell this before hand, other than if someone commented on it.
Regarding cost, I do spend a lot on accommodations, because I feel like at this point in my life (and earning level, which is less than you) I live in a nice house, I want something nice and/or equivalent when I am on vacation. I am not going to stay in a dump just to save money or just because we “just sleep there”. Especially with kids, we end up spending more time at the accommodation than you would think.
Anonymous
Ok thank you! This is my thinking. I spend the whole week wondering why we couldn’t just stay home in our much nicer house, which has access to similar beaches and family activities. It may no longer be the vacation town for us, which is fine.
It was just crazy to spend any money for such a downgrade in lifestyle. I’m wondering if that’s a philosophy that others share. It seems so logical, yet clearly my husband (who enjoys camping) disagrees.
IL
+1 It is a philosophy I follow. The places I stay on vacation should be as nice if not nicer than my house, or offer something truly unique to make up for it. Generic dusty beach house? I would also come back unhappier than a week spent at home.
I think it might be worth voicing to your husband that these trips aren’t just less than perfect, that they are making you actively unhappy. If he comes back to the usual point about money, explain that you would be happier not taking the trip next year in order to save the $3,000.
Anonymous
$450 per night will get you a nice hotel room just about anywhere, even the beach. Rental houses are just gross, no way around it. Also you are rich and can afford two adjoining hotel rooms.
Anon
Ehh, have you looked at hotel prices lately? That’s definitely not true in my area.
Anonymous
During peak season this summer I stayed in fancy beachfront hotels in two different pricey locations for around $400 per night. I don’t know anywhere in the continental US where you couldn’t find a perfectly good hotel for $450.
Anon
Agreed. I like posh hotels, and the only time I feel the need to spend more than $400 is at an all-inclusive resort. And you’re getting a lot more than just a place to sleep for your money there.
Anon
I think you need to get over your high expectations. They don’t usually do a deep clean between renters. When we’re on a beach vacation, we spend very little time in the house. And even when we had to come back to the place for kids naps, husband and I sat outside on the balcony/patio. I’ve done suites (we never do single hotel rooms) and Airbnbs but much prefer having my own space. We also often vacation with other families and airbnbs work much better to be able to hang out together after bed time. Maybe be more careful reading reviews? And just take a step back and realize that this isn’t your home and it won’t be as “clean” as your home apparently is.
The other option that may work for you is Caribbean/Mexico all inclusive beach resorts. They often have family suites and are very affordable even at peek times. Sometimes kids are reduced cost or free for the hotel – it will be more than $3000 for a family because of flights costs but not that much more.
Anonymous
+1 every rental house I’ve stayed in has been just as clean as my own house, which I keep very clean. They usually do a great job cleaning btwn renters. That being said, no company or owner is deep cleaning between renters. Usually there’s only a few hours between check out and the next check in, it isn’t feasible (or necessary) for a deep clean.
On the other hand, I think hotels are often not that clean. Almost always dirtier than rental houses I’ve stayed in. It doesn’t stop me from staying in hotels because I’m pretty low maintenance so as long as it looks clean on the surface I’ll deal but I also know they’re only surface level clean in hotels and that skeeves me out. If you think hotels are actually clean, you’re wrong.
pugsnbourbon
LOL I was so happy the first time I stayed in a hotel with hard floors. Hotel carpet skeeves me out like nobody’s business.
Anon
Be careful with cheap all inclusives though. I’ve had good experiences at some that charge $500+/night, but we recently went to a $300/night one because that was my in-laws’ budget and it was AWFUL. Terrible food, bottom shelf liquor, pools were filthy and crowded, loud music at all hours of the day, service was awful. In-laws all got some kind of stomach issue (likely either norovirus or food poisoning) and my kid got a UTI from the pool water. Because it was all inclusive, the hotel being terrible ruined the whole trip. If I didn’t have the budget for a luxury all inclusive, I would *much* prefer to stay at a cheap but clean Holiday Inn or Comfort Inn and minimize my time in the hotel.
Anon
So sorry-that sounds miserable. :( Would you mind sharing the name of the resort so I can cross it off the list (currently vacation planning.) Wishing you a re-do vacation sometime soon!
Anon
It was the Wyndham Alltra Cancun. It actually has pretty good reviews on TripAdvisor. I think a lot of people staying there probably have lower standards for food and crowds than we do, and were rating it positively in terms of value for money. But my attitude is that even a cheap all-inclusive trip still costs around $5k a week for my family (with flights, etc) and I’d rather go less frequently to a pricier place I’d actually enjoy.
And thanks for the kind words. :) This has been a busy year of travel for us (after almost no travel because of Covid the last two years) and all our other trips have been great, so it wasn’t that big a loss. And my kid had a great time! But definitely not a place I’d recommend to anyone who can afford better.
Anon
$450k and cheeping out on vacation? Nope! Sorry that sounds harsh, but I take vacation seriously at a fraction of that salary lol. I see it like I only get so many childhood vacation memories with my children, especially with Covid putting a pause on two years of them. I recommend all-inclusive resorts in the Caribbean for low stress; Barbados, Jamaica, Anguilla, Turks & Caicos etc.
Cat
Anguilla doesn’t have AI, but Antigua has a nice one – Carlisle Bay.
Anon
You make 450k. You are in the 1%. Pay for a nicer place.
Anon
(Just posted comment recommending all-inclusive Caribbean resort.) My HHI is $210k and just spent $4k on a trip to Jamaica with partner and two kids. It was the most memorable, relaxing vacation ever and IMO was worth every penny spent. Out of curiousity, did your partner by chance grow up taking minimal/no family tips or have financial trauma in their past? I would have a very hard time if my HHI were $400k and spouse refused to spend money to have a decent experience if our financial goals were being met.
Anon
+1 Our HHI is $170k (very LCOL area though) and we spend ~$20k annually on travel for our family of three. It’s the best money we spend, especially as a working parent who doesn’t have as much time with my kid as I’d like. Stuff gets broken or discarded but the memories from family trips are priceless and last forever. My husband isn’t thrilled with the spending, but I tell him this is why I work (he’s the breadwinner, but my post-tax salary more than covers our travel spending). If he insisted we cut way back on vacation spending, I’d quit and stay home with my kid and he knows that would be a net loss financially for our family so he zips it.
And also +1 on the idea stated above that Covid stole two years of my kid’s short childhood and that has contributed to my carpe diem attitude. Yes, retirement and college savings are important, but so is making memories while we can.
Allie
We rented a spotlessly clean beach townhouse for a vacation with that budget — only rent places with a lot of reviews that over and over again note how clean they are. If you want to spend less stay further from the beach but don’t rent anything dirty ever.
Anon
I’d love to see what OP thinks is so disgustingly dirty. I’m sure it’s actually fine.
Anonymous
+1
I’d say like 90% of rentals are going to be very, very clean. I’m sure the OP just has impossibly high standards. In which case, hotels won’t cut it either
Op
So to clarify, the kitchen and bathrooms were all cleaned. I guess I can’t expect a deep clean but the layers of dust on every surface were just too much for me. The cabinets were sticky, there was hair in the towels. It was also just so many dusty “collections” that you couldn’t really just wipe down anything.
I’m not germaphobe but dust and clutter and unclean linens are just a no for me.
Anon
Hotels are normally cleaner than Airbnbs IMO. I think your options are 1) stay in one standard room at a fancy hotel, 2) increase your budget to get a suite or two rooms at a fancy hotel or 3) stay in a fairly basic, non-fancy hotel (like a Comfort Inn & Suites) where you can afford two rooms on the current budget. None of those sound awful to me and my family has done all of them at various points in time, but YMMV.
Allie
OP – I hate layers of dust so really to prioritize having a ton of reviews say “spotlessly clean” when choosing a rental. I’ll have less space, stay further from the beach etc. rather than compromise on that. The place we stayed in had literally no dust but did have many reviews mention the cleanliness.
anon
The sticky cabinets and counters from your description resonated with me. I think we’re sort of the same. We did 2 AirBNBs and that was enough for me to realize I’m not a BnB person. Everything felt tacky. Just ick. I get SO limited vacation time from my demanding job that if I’m going to go on vacation, I’m going to pay for the level of comfort I want. We get suites at hotels and it’s worked well. We’re a family of three but having the our own space away from kid’s early bedtime, bonus if there’s a balcony we can chill on after bedtime, has been a game changer. You can theoretically afford it at $450k/year. I do. I’d suggest that if the level of clean is the same as mine, prioritize savings or reallocating funds so you can afford a hotel.
Anonie
$450K a year isn’t “decent” money. You are wealthy. Many households making a third or so of your income would feel comfortable spending much more than $450 a night on accommodations for 4 people.
Is your husband typically nervous to spend money in general or just in this one area? I ask not to be unkind in any way but because I think it would be an important thing to explore in your marriage. I sincerely hope you’re able to have a productive conversation and get to the root of this so you can start enjoying vacations rather than dreading them!
Anonymous
+1 you are very wealthy. You can either lower your seemingly high standards or pay for nicer accommodations. Since you’re wealthy and you have high standards I suggest you just spend more to fix this problem
Anon
Rent from a realty company in a shore town. If there’s an issue, there are local people around to solve the issue. They can send a cleaning crew, drop things off, etc. For example, we rented a nice beach house this summer and it was missing things like a broom, so the realty company dropped it off. We were the first people renting it since the new owners had bought it so they hadn’t realized a few things were missing, but all was well.
Anon
Plus, it’s possible to look at the house before you rent them. The realty company will show them to you.
No Face
You may be resort people instead of vacation rental people.
You are also rich and can afford to stay at a resort. I am like your husband by nature. My mindset set is based on growing up broke and then paying of debt when I first got a high income. I am just now accepting that I can actually afford really nice things.
Anonymous
I am a single woman making 220k a year and I’m taking a 10 night vacation that will be roughly 8k. Maybe 9. This is spendy for me and I’m conscious of that but it’s totally doable. A range of hotel costs from $140-1000.
Anon
You are objectively rich. You can spend more money on vacations. I get it, I resisted spending more on a lot of stuff because I didn’t grow up with money and my family scrimped on a lot of this type of stuff.
It sounds to me like you’d enjoy a resort. Once kids are in the picture I had to come to terms with the fact that hotels/rentals weren’t just a place to sleep anymore. The extra money is way worth it.
Anon
To answer the question you asked, we normally spend $5k-$10k for a one week trip for our family of three. We typically take our one week vacations to Europe or the Caribbean. For Europe flight costs are much higher (usually $1,500+ per person) so we try to keep our hotel costs under $300/night, which I have not found terribly challenging. For the Caribbean, we usually find flights in the $500/person range and spend more on hotels. At an all-inclusive resort, I shoot for the $800-$1000 price range, but we have gone above $1k/night. At a non-inclusive resort, I try to keep it more like $500-700/night, since we can spend a couple hundred dollars a day on meals pretty easily. Our Caribbean trips also tend to be a shorter than our Europe trips (often only 5 or 6 nights vs 7 or 8 for Europe, since the Caribbean is close to home), which means the per day cost can be higher with the same total trip cost.
We also travel at peak times (June-August, Christmas break and spring break) due to school schedules.
Anonymous
We throw money at this issue by getting a suite at a hotel. One kid only, so that is helpful. I just don’t like house rentals. I’ve had terrible luck with them being not clean enough, not having a coffee maker when they say they’re going to have a coffee maker (which, if I’m staying someplace where I can’t jump downstairs and get coffee, is just not ideal to me), or something being broken that can’t easily be remedied. Dishwasher. Washer/dryer and a pool all come to mind. I would say that we spend $5-$10 k on vacations and have a similar HHI to you. We also go for only 4-5 nights, rather than a full 7/week long event. I also don’t like all of the extra crap you have to bring to a house rental – groceries, toilet paper, paper towel, dish soap, coffee filters. It’s a huge planning and packing stress that really adds a level of unhappiness to getting ready for a vacation. Also, there’s no one to unload the car for you at most air B and B/rental houses!!! That is a luxury I am willing to pay a lot for.
Anon
See if you can offer to pay an extra $100 or so before you get there for a “deep cleaning”, or a deeper cleaning than usual, and bring lysol wipes with you. I think your fussiness standards are above what most people are satisfied with and to some degree, you have to either suck it up or just deal with it. But hotels aren’t necessarily cleaner, in my experience.
SS
Shot in the dark but we will be driving thru Saratoga Springs with kids and a dog and I’m wondering if there is a nice place to stop for lunch or anything else to give us a break that would work with the whole troop? Outdoor seating obviously. Thanks in advance!
Anon8
Oh hey this is my neck of the woods! Downtown is walkable and very family- and dog-friendly. Congress park is especially lovely and a good place to relax for a picnic or walk around– it’s a very popular spot for wedding photos so you may spot multiple wedding parties on a weekend.
For quick, casual lunch I’d go to Uncommon Grounds and get bagels and then take a walk to Congress park. They also have outdoor seating where dogs are allowed. Alternatively, Cantina is an upscale Mexican restaurant with dog-friendly outdoor seating and great food.
If you are there before September 5th it will likely be pretty crowded, especially on the weekend. The horse racing season ends on Sept 5th and it’ll be much quieter after that. Even in peak season you should be able to find parking a block or two away from Broadway in any direction and there are plenty of free parking garages (Woodlawn garage is well-located for strolling downtown).
Happy to answer any questions you have!
Anon8
Comment in mod so check back, but yes, I got you!
Anon
Alternative if you’re not into bagels (they are not NYC bagels) – try Putnam Market to get sandwiches to eat in Congress Park. You can order online on your way into town. If your kids need to burn some energy, you could also head into the state park – there are several playgrounds (it’s in the city of Saratoga and right down from the city center).
anon
I asked about this last week but probably too late for replies so trying again: any recommendations for a lawyer for a prenup in Philadelphia/Bucks County? Thanks!
Anonymous
Starting to prep for an interview next week … I think I’m set on how to answer a question about strengths, but what kind of answers have you given for the “what are your weaknesses” interview question in the past?
Deedee
I think of things where I have to work a little extra to excel—that way you have a built in way to explain how you address the weakness. I’m not a details person so I have to build systems to ensure all elements of a project are accounted for. Ideally I also have a concrete example of a project where I was able to use that system to success.
anonshmanon
I try to focus on areas where I’d like to pick up new skills (technical or professional, never personal) or a task I did once and enjoyed, and frame it as wanting to get more experience in that task.
Nesprin
I am easily bored. I can handle routine scut work, but I’m motivated by learning new things and new challenges
Its true, and also allows me to communicate that I want a position with a lot of variety, and tend to struggle in positions with lots of routine tasks.
Anonymous
Pick something that you know will be very minor to the position. (I would NOT go with the need for better organization response or comment on scut work–every job requires a bit of that so can work against you.) For example, maybe it’s “I haven’t worked with global audiences before,” but I think my background doing X for Spanish-speaking audiences (where I learned A, B,C) has helped prepare me” at an organization that is technically global but where you would be in a a U.S. office producing for U.S. clients but might have a once in a blue moon distribution to non-U.S. offices.
Anonymous
Does anyone have the Fidelity 2% cash back card? I’m thinking of getting it, it looks like a great card but wanted to check!
All of my accounts are at Fidelity and I’d use the $ for my Roth and my investment account.
anon
yes, great card
Anon
I love it.
anonchicago
Yes, has been my primary credit card for over a decade. Was previously an Amex, and the Visa servicer has changed a few times. My biggest complaint used to be the online portal but that’s gotten a lot better in the past few years though it still isn’t as slick as Chase for example.
It’s a much better 2% card than the Citi 2% which my husband has and refuses to give up. That one gives you 1% when you buy and the other 1% when you pay which feels a bit gimmicky to me. Any other card that offers higher than 1.5% cash back seems to have specific categories or hoops to jump through, which Fidelity does not.
Walnut
Yes ma’am. It’s a great card and rewards reliably book to my investment account.
Anon
Best true crime podcasts? My son recently turned me on to Crime Junkies, but I like the longer multi-part podcasts as well. Most recently I’ve listened to Father Wants Us Dead and In the Land of Lies. Any favorite multi part true crime podcasts?
Anon
I recently listened to Project Unabom and it was fascinating.
pugsnbourbon
Appalachian Mysteria
Casefile (most are 1 ep but some are series)
Paper Ghosts
Case Closed
Unraveled
Bardstown (the Lacombe series specifically)
The Thing About Pam
Anon8
Crime Junkies has a spinoff podcast called Park Predators which is good.
Multi-part about a single crime: The Teacher’s Pet, Dr. Death, Root of Evil, The Dropout and of course the first season of Serial if you’ve never listened
Anon
Bear Brook
Document (series of short arcs, created by NH Public Radio who also created Bear Brook)
Chameleon: Hollywood Con Queen (Season 1)
Criminal (kind of a kinder/gentler/NPR-ish version of a true crime podcast)
Algorithm (very interesting concept – someone basically created an algorithm to track unsolved murders to identify serial killers before police could) – the concept is fascinating, the podcast itself isn’t quite as good, but worth a listen.
*** All of these are non-humor podcasts, but fascinating stories and good story telling.
eertmeert
Cold is amazing, is about Susan Powell. Haunting multi-part series.
Detective Trapp
Strickly Stalking is a series of interviews with stalking victims and their first hand stories.
Oversight: Jonestown
Court Junkie
In the Shadows of Utopia: The Khmer Rouge
Escaping NXIVM
Seconding Casefile, The Dropout, Dr. Death.
Anonymous
Ok I have thin wavy hair that sometimes looks great when I wake up (if I slept with wet hair) and then falls during the day. Looking for recommendations for how to make it still look good throughout the day. I’ve tried hairspray in the AM, it’s meh.
I never comb my hair (run fingers through it to get out knots), but when I wake up I think it needs something to look a little more polished but I don’t want to lose the waves either.
Anonymous
Curl cream
anon
Have you tried those beach wave sprays? You apply them during the day, not immediately after you get up, to give your hair a little lift. Bumble and Bumble has one that is decent.
pugsnbourbon
Hmm. Mousse at night along with those “heatless curl” things you see on instagram? That would help you preserve volume.
No Jinx
Promotion interview outfit ideas! So I am looking to buy a new outfit for my upcoming interview for promotion to the partnership. I am willing to pay up to $2k . I have a pair of black pumps from Jimmy Choo so shoes are all set. But I am struggling with what to wear otherwise.
I am 5’8, 135 lb, no boobs and some butt, so pretty much no curve. I am East Asian and tend to look younger than my age (meaning late 20s than early 30s). I have a matching set from Argent. Fine to wear separately but wearing together, I look kinda like an air stewardess. My biz casual brands are the Fold, MML, Joseph and REISS. But I am not seeing any good options for more formal clothes.
Any recommendations?? Thank you!!
Cat
Hugo Boss
Anon
Ha, it’s funny to me you call those brands business casual.
Cat
same – I think of The Fold as an alternative to “old school” f-rmal, though some of their pieces are more fun / casual than others.
Anon
Seriously. My idea of business casual is J. Crew.
Anonymous
. . . Target!
Anonymous
Paul Smith suiting works for tall and slim women. Max Mara, too. And Boss.
I think Vicoria Beckham does great formal dresses.
I would start with Max Mara.
Anonymous
Oh, and for the air stewardess thing: avoid very conservative cuts, navy, and fabrics that read poly blend.
Try softer, more textured or luxurious fabrics. Since you look young, add makeup to age your image. Very conservative suiting may look like dress-up with a young face. You could probably look a Chanel suit, though.
anon
I need to know where you’re working that a nice, pulled-together outfit from the Fold, MML or Reiss would be considered too casual. I’ve worked in banking in NY and London and at a white-shoe law firm (Cravath) in NY, and I can’t think of many more formal environments than either.
Thoughts
Agree with Hugo Boss.
Good luck. Let us know how it goes!
OP
Thanks all!! I work in a biglaw in NYC. The reason I had these brands as biz casual is I pretty wear them all the time on a daily basis, adding a blazer if I need to meet with clients. So rational or not, I feel like mentally I need an upgrade to hype myself up for this.
Will check out these brands. And thank you for the tip on the air stewardess thing! I never really understood why certain suits look that way on me but this all makes so much sense now!
Anja
I have a work event coming up where I will be eating lunch with a group at one point. The food is a set menu, and has already been announced. Problem is, I have some extreme food aversions – this isn’t “icky vegetables”, this is “I may actually barf all over the table” – and one of them is a major ingredient. (I’m working on this with a professional, but it’s rather slow going.) No one else at work knows about my issues – when given a full menu, I can almost always find something edible on it, and I have no problems when I can cook for myself because I can simply avoid the things I won’t eat. I would rather not bring it up now.
The option I’m leaning towards is bringing along a sandwich or something else to substitute, and ducking into the bathroom or somewhere private to eat it before/after lunch. Thoughts?
Anon
Yeah, just pick at the food you’re given, say that you’re not a fan of Ingredient, and eat a protein bar in the hall when you have a moment.
Liza
Can you just skip a meal?
Thoughts
+1
Just eat something before you go. Order a salad or an app.
Anon
Most events ask if you have a food preference, can you find out if the vegan or gluten free option is something you could eat and switch to that?
Anon
Who does this? In what world does everyone want to eat the same thing? And they’re only serving one thing? Or will there be some side dishes? I think the protein bar in the bathroom thing is your best option if there’s really nothing you can eat.
Cat
Is the ingredient in all the courses, or just one?
in any event, I’ve never seen a set menu without any alternative options for allergies or intolerances. I would be semi-honest and say to the organizer “I have an adverse reaction to X, is there an alternative for that course?”
Anonymous
+1 I did an allergy test and found I’m allergic to tomatoes, so I avoid tomatoes. I would tell the organizer in advance and ask for an alternative. This should be a common request for the venue.
Anonymous
Call the organizer or the restaurant and request a different meal. Absolutely do not bring a sandwich.
Anonymous
I would say I’m allergic (it’s a white lie, no one cares) and ask if you can be accomodated. I’m a celiac and always have to be vigilant about gluten free. Sometimes there’s nothing I can eat or I’m worried about cross contamination, in which case I’ll do the energy bar in the bathroom and see if I can get a side salad. But most restaurants are good about food allergies.
Anon
+1
I have food allergies, so I’m used to doing this all the time. Script you need: “I have an intolerance to [X]. Is it possible to have an alternative provided? I’d be fine with even just a salad!”
Jo April
Suggestions for stuff to bring up in a “holistic” conversation with your new boss at a new job?
anon
Could use some advice on how to be a supportive friend. Background: my BFF suspected her husband of cheating for a number of years, he eventually asked for divorce, she could never find evidence of the cheating but 4 years after they separated, he is married to the woman that my friend suspected and they have a new baby. So he probably did. She remains titanically angry at him (understandable) and they have a contentious relationship in terms of parenting their shared kids.
We have daughters the same age and they have just started a new private school, which means lots of new-parent and back to school events. The ex-husband just showed up for the first time at a school social event with his wife and wife has volunteered for some committees at the school. Her ex-husband and the wife have also turned up with all the kids (so my friend’s two kids plus the new baby) at some family events. My friend is angry and upset that he is turning up at these things and that new wife is volunteering at the school (again, understandable).
New wife doesn’t seem to know who I am and has chatted to me at some of these events. I am really uncomfortable talking to her given what I know and also how upset it makes my friend but also am not sure how to handle in the moment. If I just turn away and obviously ignore her I’m the one who looks rude (does not help that my husband who knows all of this background is still chatting away with my BFF’s ex like it’s no big deal). Also, do I tell other moms at the new school why my BFF doesn’t like this person/is upset when she shows up? It’s a big school so thus far new wife hasn’t ended up (for example) assigned to the same volunteer shift as my friend, but I have run into her multiple times.
Anon
So my ex husband cheated on me and now is married to and has a baby with the affair partner. I don’t ever want to see either of them and would be honestly really upset if a good friend of mine became actual friends with one of them.
Having said that!! I personally would never want my friend to tell others at my kids’ school what happened and why I don’t like the new wife. It seems like it would cause needless drama. I personally would also be fine with polite interaction in the name of not causing drama at the kids’ school.
I’ve had direct conversations with some friends about these types of issues and asked them not to tell me anything about what’s happening with these people except very specific circumstances (deaths of family members I knew, for example). I know it’s uncomfortable, but maybe telling your friend how awkward you feel will help and then you’ll also know where her head is.
Anon
I think you’re making a big deal out of this. Maybe the ex was cheating with this woman, but it took them four years to get married after the divorce. It may have been an emotional affair. It may have been chemistry and nothing else. Regardless, he is the one who cheated, so focus your issues on him and not her.
If you don’t want to be sociable with her, just mention something about being best friends with her husband’s ex wife. She will understand that you two aren’t going to be buddies by time soon. Otherwise, maintain a working relationship so you don’t mess things up for your kids.
Anon
“Hey, you probably don’t know, but I’m Erica’s best friend. You seem really nice, but I don’t want things to get awkward.”
And no, don’t say anything to anyone. What on earth? No.
Also, friend needs therapy. If she’s been to therapy, she needs more.
Charlotte
Therapy, sure, but also I would not be happy to see the affair partner in this situation? Like some of the anger is valid.
Anon
I think your friend needs to grow up and move on. I wouldn’t contribute to the drama.
Anon
Same.
Anon
Yea titanically angry 4+ years later is . . . a lot. Stay out of this as much as you can. Don’t be rude to new wife, be pleasant as you would to a stranger, don’t fuel the fire by telling your friend anything that’s going on at school unless it’s a need to know bc of the kids, and generally stay out of it.
Hopefully, your friend has a therapist. Being angry this long has to be detrimental to her health and her relationship with her kids. A friend of mine is the new wife in this story (did not support her cheating AT ALL), and it’s been nine years and the ex wife is still
making trouble and everyone, including the kids who get along fine with new wife all this she’s being ridiculous this far down the line.
Anonymous
Don’t you think your friend is a bad person? Are you going to be there for her when she’s replaced since her old role is vacant.
test run
This is… not nice. People make bad/complicated decisions and friends are still allowed to be there for them even if they don’t agree those decisions.
Anon
At the time she was cheating? Yes. And we weren’t friends then. I backed off bc I couldn’t support what eh and her now husband were doing. She had a really rough go and no, I wasn’t her good friend then. Our relationship grew back over time much like her family grew when they got married, as she formed stronger relationships with her step kids. She still holds a lot of guilt about it, and I support her now in times of need.
Cat
wth, your friend’s ex is still, in fact, the father of their shared children. Expecting him to avoid activities centered on the kids is really weird.
the mature way to handle this is for everyone to be able to chat amicably as relates to school and kid topics. If friend wants to make life easier on herself in the long run, she should be glad Ex and his new wife are involved!
anon
Omg, no, do not tell the other moms about this drama. I think you can be cordial to the new wife but not become friends. You’re all adults, anything else would be kinda weird, I’d think.
Anonymous
Uh don’t. Continue to be pleasant to her and don’t spread gossip. Your friend needs to get tf over herself and pull it together and deal with the fact that new wife exists.
Anon
I feel so bad for your BFF. The new stepmom volunteering at the school is so inappropriate. It would be one thing if they had a friendly relationship, but they don’t and the stepmom shouldn’t be trying to do mom activities.
No good advice. I would be cordial but cold to the stepmom. Don’t add any more drama to the situation.
Cat
I don’t understand this attitude at all. Stepmom sounds like she is doing an awesome job wanting to be involved in the kids’ lives, and if you think about it later, if Stepmom volunteered only for the child she shared with Ex, wouldn’t that feel ridiculous?
Aunt Jamesina
Yeah, she sounds like a great stepparent to me!
Anonymous
If she was the cheating partner it’s inappropriate. If she were some random nice lady he met after his divorce, different story.
anon
School involvement is about the kids, though, and so does it really matter re: the cheating since (presumably) the kids don’t know about that? Whether having a stepparent involved at their school is good for them seems like it doesn’t vary based on the circumstances of the divorce (unless the kids know about it and thus have a bad relationship to the stepmom).
Anon
There is advice here all the time to new stepmoms to be a friendly adult to their step kids, but to not try to parent them. Recognize that you are not there mom or dad, and leave the parenting responsibilities to them. To me, volunteering at your kids school crosses that line, especially with the horrible background.
Attend school events, like plays, concerts, graduations, yes. But don’t be a field trip chaperone or run the bake sale, that’s crossing the line.
Anon
OMG volunteering at a bake sale is so not crossing a line.
Anon
Obviously don’t tell anyone else about this. I’d just be friendly when you see her but don’t go out to your way to be friends outside of an event. If it becomes an issue with the kids, as in their friends and you have to coordinate play dates, then you might as well be more friendly and your friend needs to get over it.
Aunt Jamesina
Treat her like you would any other parent you haven’t yet met at your kids’ school. Because that’s what she is to you. I’m sorry for your friend, but it sounds like she’s letting an awful situation poison her life. Don’t feed into the drama. I have an aunt like this who is still angry thirty years later. It has fundamentally affected her life and her relationship with her kids, it’s really sad.
No Face
Be polite to new wife, because you have no evidence that she has done anything wrong. Even if they did cheat, they are a married couple and your friend needs to accept that.
Definitely don’t tell other people anything (?!!!) Basically, act like new wife is a person you see around town that you don’t particularly want to be friends with.
Your friend needs to focus on her healing. There is nothing wrong with the kids’ father and stepmother being involved in the kids school.
Of Counsel
First of all, neither you nor your friend can be certain there was cheating. And even if he was, for her children’s sake your friend needs to let it go. And you need to not enable her continued obsession with this or spread gossip that might make it back to the children. He is their father. His new wife is their step-mother. They have the absolute right to be involved in his kids’ lives and his continued involvement is in those children’s best interests. Her refusal to recognize that is going to damage her relationship with them. In these cases the needs of the children is the absolute top priority.
That does not mean you need to be friends (as opposed to polite) to the new wife. Your friendship with the first wife is a good enough reason for that. It also does not mean that the first wife needs to forgive and forget. But for her own sake and the sake of her children, she needs to let it go.
Anonymous
Has anyone dealt with becoming overly sensitive? I feel like for years I wasn’t a cryer . I don’t cry at work (except for once or twice , privately, over appropriate sadness or frustration) , but I feel so emotionally sensitive to things. Someone mentioned a book “tender is the flesh” , and I looked it up and even the synopsis has haunted me for days. I cry almost every time I hear the encanto soundtrack. Ironically i feel pretty in control of my emotions in like actual day to day interactions, but it seems like I’m super sensitive to shows , commercials etc.
Anonymous
This was me and a) I wasn’t paying any attention to how my cycle affected my emotions and could cause me to cry at shows, commercials, etc., out of the blue. This emotional response got cranked up for 10-15 years during perimenopause and menopause.
And b) I wasn’t half as “in control” of my emotions as I thought I was. I’d just stuffed a lot of feelings for a lot of years while I prided myself on being strong and rational. Turns out I’m just as emotional and passionate as all those other women I looked down on as being “too emotional” and “flaky.”
pugsnbourbon
+1. We are living through a slow-motion apocalypse. Let yourself feel your feelings. Otherwise you’ll suddenly find yourself sobbing over coffee at the grocery store (ask me how I know)
Ribena
All of this.
I found reading the book Highly Sensitive Person by Elaine Aron to be really helpful in making me feel less weird about it all.
Anon
That happened to me after I had kids.
anon
Same here. Having a kid just shook something loose inside this formerly cold-hearted stoic woman. I’m super sensitive these days.
Anonymous
Ugh I have this problem too. I used to only cry at funerals and now I tear up more often I’d like for happy, sad, meaningful moments and it’s so annoying
Anonymous
Random question: when I was a kid they sold post-it notes with stickers around them so you could stick a pad of post-its to the inside or outside of your folder. That must still exist, right? What is that called for an Amazon or Etsy search? Unsurprisingly “post it sticker” is not helpful.
Anon
Post-it Laptop Notes Super Sticky Laptop Note Dispenser
Found by “post-it note attach to folder -digital”
Anonymous
even something like this would be ok but i don’t need to buy in bulk obviously https://www.4imprint.com/product/152453?gfeed=1&mkid=1pla152453&ef_id=CjwKCAjwx7GYBhB7EiwA0d8oe-gzLXWgZanCIcTLVg1a0-Z6Y88mgJKPD1oXOf5dGcPVzV6w-BWTExoCPwsQAvD_BwE:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!4167!3!281106867729!!!g!657575850620!&gclid=CjwKCAjwx7GYBhB7EiwA0d8oe-gzLXWgZanCIcTLVg1a0-Z6Y88mgJKPD1oXOf5dGcPVzV6w-BWTExoCPwsQAvD_BwE
test run
Could you use these and just peel off the back and stick the whole thing to the inside of a folder?
https://www.post-it.com/3M/en_US/post-it/products/~/Post-it-Super-Sticky-Full-Stick-Notes-Refill-Pack-3-in-x-3-in-6-Pads-Pack/?N=4327+3290472919+3294529207&preselect=8755974+3293786499&rt=rud
Anon
Try “full adhesive back” or “full stick.”
Anonymous
I need to upgrade my zoom background, which has a painting from a zoom paint and sip and a curtain. Do you put your diploma on your zoom wall? I’m 100% WFH for the foreseeable future, and I’m a HYP graduate. I would have my diplomas on my office wall if I had one. They’re currently in the closet. Trying to brainstorm what might give me authority as I’m currently interviewing for senior VP level positions.
pugsnbourbon
Could you do a bookshelf and put your framed diploma there?
That said, I won’t be able to read your diploma (unless HYP puts their school names in REAL big font).
Cat
the people in the SVP and higher positions at my org all have home office backgrounds with art or sports memorabilia – something that shows their taste and personality. Def not diplomas, and especially bc you are a HYP grad, bc it will only reinforce the stereotype that you love to bring up where you went to school.
I say this as another Ivy grad who has diplomas in her office-office (it’s typical in the legal dept), but they’re on a wall that is not behind me for in person meetings or video meetings.
Anonymous
Oh god no. Don’t put your diplomas up. That’s so try hard. Most interview candidates I see either have a plain wall with an inoffensive piece of art, blur their background, or have a plain virtual one.
AnonQ
And…today I learned that people are judging me for having my diplomas framed on my office wall lol.
Cat
I commented above. I think there’s a big difference between having them on a wall in your actual office as opposed to making them an intentional part of your video background in your actual house.
Cat
gah, miss the edit button! Especially given the OP’s stated goal of looking more senior or established or credentialed.
AnonQ
Yeah, mine are in my home office. I work remotely full-time. Just surprised people care about this.
Anonymous
Many attorneys I know have their diplomas up, but almost no non attorneys. So YMMV
Anon
I just do the blurred background. No one is really interested in what’s behind me.
Job Search Woes
I’m getting really frustrated with my job search and I need some encouragement. I’m in I guess what would be considered mid-level…I am about 10 years out of college, with 5 years of experience in one industry and 5 years in another. I’ve been applying for jobs that are the next level up in each industry but keep getting turned down after a couple rounds of interviews. I feel like I know enough in each industry to be able to do the roles I’m applying for and what I don’t know, I can easily learn. I’m bright, competent, a hard worker, well respected at my current role…I should be able to easily find a new role!!! But I feel like I am just stuck in what is essentially an entry level position (and pay bracket) because I cannot move up.
It feels like such a catch-22: I keep getting turned down for not having any managerial experience but I can’t get that experience at my current company. I KNOW I can do the jobs I’m applying for, I just need them to take a chance on me.
:(
Anonymous
Commiseration! It’s hard to get management experience. I was fortunate to manage direct reports earlier in my career while at a manager level. I’ve been at a director level for 8 years at 2 companies, and they both are “sole contributors” without direct reports. If I were you, I’d try to find ways to show you can influence across teams. Can you give examples where you’ve led a project? Can you get an intern or volunteer to supervise? Can you volunteer at a nonprofit leading a project?
Anon
That really sucks, I’m sorry. Do you have enough of a network in either industry to try finding a job that way?
pugsnbourbon
That you’re getting interviews is a good sign. How do you feel about the interviews – when you leave, do you feel like you made a good connection? Told a good story about yourself and your experience?
Do you know folks in the type of role you want to have? If you haven’t already, see if they are willing to grab coffee/do a zoom chat about their path. They might have some insight.
Anon
I had a similar issue – trying to go from law firm to in-house role, and kept losing jobs to folks who had some in-house experience. Ultimately I just kept applying and developing the story of why I was ready to move in-house; in my situation, it was that I was increasingly embedded with a particular significant client’s legal team, so I saw how the in-house environment worked and was ready to make the leap.
If you can keep looking for quasi-management experience – e.g., mentoring interns, serving as a project manager even if you’re a people manager – hopefully something will come through! Good luck.
Anon
Do you have experience as a committee chair for a volunteer group? In my experience, managing volunteers is one of the hardest things you can do, because they don’t *have* to be there, and therefore there are no serious consequences if they do a bad job. Managing a successful volunteer team is a huge skill. If you have this experience, USE IT!
Anon
Agree. You can pickup and run dei programs and matrix manage that way
Anon
Dear Canadian ‘rettes, a friend of mine is relocating to Canada and is in search of a good bank. Needs basic banking services, such as local transfers, debit/credit card, online banking [no assets management or similar services needed] and reasonable international transfers [as her funds are in Poland]. Thank you for recommendations.
Curious
BMO!
Curious
(not Canadian but have a positive relationship with a US branch. They’re behind the times relative to Chase or Schwab, though.)
Anon
Thanks, Curious!
Anonymous
There are 5 major banks in Canada – all national and really big. Pick any one based on geographic availability (some have more branches in some cities or provinces) —- Royal Bank of Canada, Bank of Montreal, Bank of Nova Scotia, Toronto-Dominion Bank, Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce.
Anonymous
Going to a indoor golf work event soon. I don’t golf and I’m WFH since the start of the pandemic so need to figure out what to wear without a lot of input about what my office is doing. I might give it a couple swings but otherwise would be at the bar or cheering others on. Is this a reasonable outfit?
LL Bean Camp navy skort
Navy Striped tee shirt
Quilted navy flats (or maybe sockless Keds?)
ALT
If this is a Topgolf situation (and I’m assuming it is, since I don’t know what other indoor golf exists other than mini golf) your outfit sounds fine. You can wear pretty much anything to Topgolf—I would probably do slim black pants, a Madewell type button down half-tucked and Stan Smith/GG type sneakers for a “cool girl business casual” look.
Anonymous
Thanks – yes, Top Golf!
Anon
Agree; you don’t need to wear a golf outfit to Topgolf.
Anon
Curious to hear thoughts on how our friend group should handle this situation. I have a group of college friends that have known each other for 15+ years, and we have started doing cabin weekends away every summer. One of the friends was previously sober for 2+ years, and recently decided that he wanted to start drinking again. His reasoning was that he was never actually an alcoholic, he just had underlying issues that weren’t being addressed and his life is in a much better place now. It was phrased to us as “I just want to be able to have a glass of wine on a date or a seltzer with you guys at the cabin.” Then it became “I’m just going to be drinking moderately.” Not surprisingly, the weekend did not go well. He started off drinking “moderately” for our friend group (which admittedly can revert back to our college days and go pretty hard when we’re together) but by the last night he was visibly quite intoxicated, slurring his words, and getting extremely defensive about the smallest of comments. It was extremely awkward and tense. We are also fairly confident he was sneaking alcohol while others were outside. But, the next morning he acted like everything was normal. No one confronted him or has said anything to acknowledge that he might be backsliding. I was never as close with this friend, so it certainly wouldn’t go over well to hear it from me – but is this a situation where his closest friends should give him some tough love, or where he needs to figure it out on his own? I ask because my best friend is the one who is closest to him, and is not sure at all how to handle the situation. We also have another college friend’s wedding coming up in early October and I’m very worried about a potential scene that could impact her special day. It’s all incredibly sad and I am worried about him falling back into the pit he worked so hard to pull himself out of. And selfishly, it kind of ruined my long weekend with friends I don’t get to see that often.
Monday
If I were close to him, I’d say something. He had 2 years of sobriety, and needs the feedback that his experiment with “moderate” drinking is not working for his friends. I also wouldn’t want to invite him to future drinking events if he defends himself, because it means he will be the same (or worse).
Anonymous
+1 someone should say something
anonymous
Your friend is clearly an alcoholic who needs help. He’s back in the pit, unfortunately. But the tough thing about this situation is that responses vary so much from one person to the next. Confronting him, or giving “tough love”, might wake him up and confirm to himself that he needs to get back on the wagon. He might also resist and arch his back about his ability to control his drinking, in which case he’ll keep drinking as much as ever and be even more defensive.
I’d be curious to know what originally motivated him to quit? Self imposed? “Rock bottom”?
Anon
Possibly weird question: does anyone who has a private office/space at work, actually work out in it. I have a small space, can close the doors… If I moved furniture could do a strength type of workout. But it feels weird! My job is very sedentary and in an isolated spot so there is no where to walk for breaks. So I’ve been toying with the idea of getting some light hand weights and just doing something low key (not high impact jumping around). Am curious if anyone else does this or should I just….forget it and keep trying to find time to do this at home?
Anonymous
I have a separate office and have considered buying a treadmill. Right now, I have a Cubii under the desk seated bike machine. It is low impact but I feel like it’s a good way to get some motion in while sitting on zoom calls for 3 hours straight, and I enjoy it. It is quiet and no one can tell I’m using it.
Anon
I’d be surprised if this could not be heard or felt through the floor by your office neighbors. Just seems odd – I’d skip it unless your office is very casual and you have very structured lunch breaks (so it’s clear you are not working out while you should be working).
anonshmanon
not a full workout, but lunges and squats on really boring calls. I would do crunches and have the space, but don’t trust my carpet that much in terms of cleanliness.
H13
I used to do this. I kept a few sets of weights and a yoga mat in my office and would do a few sets or a 15 min yoga video. It was great. And a great way to just spend 10 minutes.
Vicky Austin
I used to meditate in my private office; I bet you could get away with gentle yoga or strength. Maybe mark yourself as Away so you don’t have to answer the door all sweaty.
Anonymous
This might not be what you have in mind but I used to love doing this stretching video in my office: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9WC_eLmP30. Or maybe something like chair yoga?
Sybil
I had a kind of office annex that was used for storage. No other entrance and all my stuff, so no one came in there. I did yoga in there weekly.