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These collarless jackets get sleeker and sleeker. Love the simple lines in the front, and the awesome seaming on the back — gorgeous. The blazer is $2,195 at Barney's, limited sizes only, alas. Narciso Rodriguez Cady Collarless Jacket
Two lower-priced options are here and here; two plus-size alternatives are here and here.
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(L-6)
Sales of note for 9.16.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 30% off wear-now styles
- J.Crew Factory – (ends 9/16 PM): 40% off everything + extra 70% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Extra 25% off all tops + markdowns
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…
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And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
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- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
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- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
KT
I love collarless jackets, but this price tag made me spit out my coffee. That’s 2 months rent for me!
Which brings me to my question…I grew up in a fairly frugal area, where Kohls and Ross were the norm and Macys was for the “super wealthy”. I always thought that clothes at this pricepoint were for celebrities or Sex and the City characters, not real women. I realize that’s terribly not true and plenty of women have wardrobes of high end items.
That said, what is the cost of your average piece? Are all of your clothes 500+, or do you have a mix of high end and bargains (under $100)?
Is a professional woman in $200 suits versus $100 suits woefully out of touch? I’m just confused what is “normal” for different regions and industries.
KT
That’s supposed to sat ‘$200 suits versus $1000 suits”
lost academic
I’m with you there – I spent so little on clothes through college that spending more than say, $20, on jeans felt fancy for awhile! I am about to need to seriously restock my business wardrobe ((like 100% replace) and was thinking about how much money to allocate for the effort over the next few months. (I need a personal shopper!)
KT
I still get nervous spending $30 on a sweater :)
But I love ebay and thrift stores for this. I have a weakness for NYDJ jeans, but the price tag (usually about $120) gives me heart palpitations. But I can usually find them on eBay for $30 new with tags.
I can find them at Goodwill but never in my size…so I buy them and resell them on ebay to add to my clothing fund!
Woods-comma-Elle
My stuff is all reasonably ‘cheap’ because I get bored of things very quickly and I like having variety so I tend to buy several cheaper items versus one or two more expensive items. Also, I’ve never quite outgrown the student budget when it comes to clothes and despite the Biglaw salary I still go ‘how much?!’ rather often. My staples tend to come from H&M, Dorothy Perkins and Express so most of my stuff is well within the under $100 bracket.
That said, on the ‘big’ stuff I do sometimes splurge and I got a $500 winter coat last year. If I were buying a suit (I rarely need to wear one for work, so the one I have is good enough), I’d probably look at spending a bit more on quality pieces.
BB
My jackets/blazers probably average ~$750. This factors in that I bought most of them on sale. I think there’s something very refined about a beautifully made jacket and they last longer – the extra money is worth it to me. On the other hand, my tops/blouses probably average ~$50 with a couple of ~$75 button downs. I find these to be mostly disposable after 2-3 seasons. Skirts are a toss up. Suit skirts are high-end (to go with the jacket), but I also own a bunch of Halogen “the skirts” for more casual occasions.
Boyfriend sweater
I don’t come from $, so right now I am sweating whether to keep the v-neck boyfriend Halogen cardigan that was in the NAS. I am not sure how this is supposed to look and thought it would look horrible on me (slight pear), but maybe it is OK. It is probably OK. I act like I will starve or be nekkid if I get this wrong and it’s only a sweater (that I can return).
My DVF all comes from e-bay (but that is an expensive way to try on clothes if you don’t know your size).
Carine
I think this really depends on your seniority level, work environment, and location. I am a professional, but a junior in-house lawyer at a non-profit in a SE midsize city. I own not a single piece of clothing that cost over $500 and most of my outfits are nowhere near that! I grew up in a similar area as you, and while I could afford to start adding high-end pieces to my wardrobe I really have a hard time rationalizing spending that kind of money on clothing (especially at this stage of my life–with pregnancies and postpartum and fluctuating sizes). I don’t buy fast fashion because I think it’s a waste of money and ethically problematic, so I try to find decent quality items between $50 and $250, typically. I have even set out purposefully with the goal to buy something really high end in the past (to treat myself for passing the bar) and I just couldn’t pull the trigger. Bags and shoes, now, I get quite close to that figure, though I very rarely ever pay full price.
The more senior lawyers I work with and my friends in private practice in this area seem to stick around the Ann Taylor/Boden range generally for clothing–brands like Theory or Tory Burch would be a splurge.
Jennifer
I’m a non-lawyer in DC, and this is exactly my take. Although, I end up spending $100/year on fast fashion stuff.
Diana Barry
+1. My average price point has gone up since I started work (gulp) 13 yrs ago. I have a couple of blouses that were $150 (silk, Joie and Boss) where 10 years ago I would only buy on super sale at Banana for $30.
My suits are mostly J Crew but I have 2 Theory suits – one I bought at the outlet and one I bought at Bloomingdales with the 20% sale.
The most expensive “regular” item of clothing I own is my Cole Haan leather jacket that was $450 (was also on sale) and then my parka (320?) but everything else is below that.
Anon
+1 to the parka. My most expensive item of clothing is my Patagonia Tres parka. It’s like wearing a $500 waterproof, incredibly warm hug during the cold wet winter days.
My second most expensive item (nearly same price) is my black leather waterproof knee high boots. I wear them with everything.
Houda
Growing up, I wore many hand-me-downs and thrift shop clothes until college. My parents could by large afford buying in shops but my father had an obsession with thrifting.
I never knew the price of full time items and it’s only mid-college that I started buying new clothes as I was making my own money.
Now my wardrobe has t-shirts bought for 15 dollars, dresses around the $100, a coat and a suit worth 800 dollars each.
Over the years, I see the individual cost of my clothing go up, but the average size of my wardrobe is shrinking.
I am slowly going into a wardrobe with better made items that are worn more often.
Not to go again into the whole fast-fashion debate, or the Konmari craze, I think I am going towards a more compact wardrobe which allows me to splurge, though none of my latest purchases over past 2 years has a logo on it. I am stirring clear of logos but growing an appreciation for well-made pieces.
I feel better and more accomplished when I am wearing better quality items (not necessarily the most expensive).
anon
I am a partner at a small law firm in a big Eastern city. I can’t remember the last time I bought a top that was more than $25; sweaters, maybe up to $40 or so (one or two cashmere sweaters in the $100 range, as gifts). I have in the past bought suits up to $300, because I prefer to avoid polyester if possible, but since that’s less and less possible unless you want to spend more like $500 and since I’ve changed sizes more frequently due to pregnancy, I’ve reverted to The Limited for suits. Usually on sale. Sometimes Ann Taylor on sale, but I would say average suit price $150-$200. I try to buy skirts at thrift stores, and in any case not more than $50. Pants maaaaybe up to $75 because they’re hard to fit, but it would have to be very nice quality.
Would I like to wear nicer suits? Yes. But it’s not in our budget, particularly during these years where I’m having kids, and frankly most lawyers I interact with, on both sides, aren’t wearing expensive suits either.
ace
Biglaw, Midwest, and about 10 years seniority. My suits tend to be in the $200-400 range, including Banana Republic, Limited, Macy’s (various brands) and Brooks Brothers.
Suits also tend to be a staple that I don’t update very frequently… not saying that’s a good thing! They’re just a lot less fun than other items, and I tend to buy relatively simple designs that don’t (imo) go out of style very noticeably.
Anonymous
I own nothing this expensive, and I never shop at Kohls. There’s so much good quality between those extremes. I do think it looks off for someone working in BigLaw to be wearing 75% target.
TBK
I grew up in a fairly wealthy area (Boston suburbs) but we really scraped to get by — I remember seeing dresses for $60 in Macy’s (which was probably Jordan Marsh back then) and thinking “who can afford to just buy a dress for $60?” So, yeah, not quite the same in terms of environment but definitely the same in terms of what my family actually bought. Now, though, I work in DC, which tends to be well-dressed but never flashy or fashiony. My staples have always been J Crew, Banana Republic, and Ann Taylor. Although nowadays, post-twins, I’m trending more Talbots and less J Crew. My everyday suits are about $300 each. I hate synthetic suits and so spend extra for wool ones. My best best best suit cost about $800. I’ve also started mixing in a few more expensive pieces from Brooks Brothers (including that suit) because I find I really wear those items, tend to save up for them, and they wear like iron. I have an extremely limited wardrobe, though. I have exactly 15 work outfits and 4 weekend outfits (well, 8 total — 4 summer and 4 winter, but they all incorporate pieces from the work outfits), plus 4 workout outfits, and one c-tail dress. So overall, I don’t wind up spending that much money on clothes.
Anonymous
TBK, can you share more about how you ended up with that wardrobe size? It sounds heavenly to me. What pieces do you have? Any regrets?
Anon
Not TBK, but I have a small wardrobe. I have 5 suits, 5 pencil skirts, and 12 sheath dresses. Add in a handful of blouses, 3 Loft t-shirts, 6 J.Crew Tippi sweaters, a couple casual dresses, and 2 pairs of jeans and 2 pairs of corduroys, and that’s about all I own. Absolutely everything purchased on sale.
My wardrobe is this small for so many reasons. I love quality and can’t afford additional pieces; I love quality and object to lots of the inexpensive fashions I could afford; I only buy things I absolutely LOVE and feel amazing in; I have a pretty narrowly defined personal style (classic and elegant with interesting details) and that’s hard to find at my price point.
I also frequently cull my closet and my question is always, do I love this? Does it make me feel happy wearing it? If it doesn’t, it goes. I do this about twice a year and take my cast-offs to Dress for Success.
KP
Not sure if I’m too late for this but would love to hear more about how people overlap work wear and weekend wear. I have never been able to get the hang of it but I want to do it desperately. Is it because my weekend wear is too casual (jeans and t-shirts) therefore meaning there is no natural overlap? Are there small tweaks I could be making that could solve this?
Jax
Work shell/blouse, cardigan, jeans. I feel way more put together wearing that than wearing jeans/t-shirt/hoodie combos. I save the t-shirts and hoodies for straight up lounging around the house in yoga pants!
TBK
Part of it is that I had twins and absolutely cannot fit into any of my old clothing so I had to buy my wardrobe from scratch. Another part is that I work in a business formal office, which actually makes this so much easier. I own four suits. One is the BR lightweight wool in gray. I have the skirt, jacket, and sheath dress. The same suit in navy, but I also own the pants (so four pieces). I have my black BB suit. I also have a black Talbots sheath dress and matching jacket. I own button front shirts in white, light pink, blue, and black. Then five flowier tops, three plaid/gingam cotton shirts, two cashmere cardigans, three cotton drapey cardigans, a pair of jeans, a pair of khakis, and a denim pencil skirt. I also have a navy blazer with brass buttons, a white cotton tweed Chanel style jacket, and a gray tweed wool jacket. Every suit combination can be worn at least once. Some (e.g., navy jacket and skirt) can be worn more than once. My plaid shirts require ironing so I wear them once during the week (with suits) and then wear them a second time with khaki pants on the weekend. In the winter, I wear the same flowy tops I wear under my suits with jeans and a cardigan on the weekends. I have three pairs of work shoes — black, nude patent, and brown — and two pairs of weekend shoes — black wedges/flats, and brown loafers — plus a pair of reefs for summer.
A big part of it is planning. I literally write out my wardrobe, then write out combinations until I have 15 work outfits (we’re casual on Fridays, so I usually wear a suit/top combo but switch out the jacket for a cardigan). I might have two holes — say, I need a top to wear with my navy pants/jacket and I need a jacket to wear with my black dress. Then I shop with the intention of buying those specific things. I usually come up with a price range for those, too. So maybe $150 for a jacket and $80 for a top. I only buy to replace items or to fill holes, and I shop with an idea of what I want. So I bought my three checked shirts because I saw guys wearing plaid dress shirts with their suits in the summer and loved the look, so I decided I wanted a few floral print or check or plaid collared button front cotton shirts to wear under suits and with pants on the weekends. I don’t buy anything unless I’m already on the hunt for it, and I don’t buy things unless I can pinpoint where it fits in my wardrobe and am sure I can make at least two outfits with it.
SoCalAtty
Late to the party but this sounds fantastic. I’m in a casual office, but this would be so easy to do for me. I’m also about 3 weeks from my due date, and I think I may need to toss my old wardrobe and start over, as painful as that will be!
Lyssa
I’m definitely in the same boat as you, KT, having grown up somewhat struggling (not truly poor, just in a household where things were always very tight), and I’ve never gotten used to the prices for most pieces on this s!te (not just the Monday ones). I do generally think of the splurge Monday pieces as fantasy – what would you look at if money were not even an issue? – rather than something that we’re actually expected to consider. I’ve noticed that the Monday posts rarely or never include comments where a person is actually buying or owns the featured item.
I couldn’t say what my average cost per item is, but I’m definitely more comfortable in the under $50 range and generally consider $100 to be only for something very nice. I don’t own anything in the $500 range, and that includes my wedding dress! Probably 90% of my work wardrobe is from The Limited, Ann Taylor, or Banana Republic, and most was bought on sale (as buying things at full price at those stores is a sucker move). I am looking to step things up a bit when I lose my pregnancy weight, as I haven’t been buying much for the last few years (as I’ve been planning to get pregnant/pregnant/losing weight/planning to get pregnant again). Since I’m done with all that once my weight normalizes, I’d like to get some nicer “investment”-type stuff, but even then, I’m probably planning to look for items in the $100-$200 range, give or take.
I’m a mid-level associate attorney in a LCOL area.
Anon
Government attorney. Almost everything I wear is J.Crew or Antonio Melani from Dillard’s, but I wait to buy them on super sale. I suppose I could afford to buy an occasional item full-price, but I’m just not wired that way. Why pay full price when it’ll be on sale in a few weeks?
And no shame, I LOVE upscale consignment stores.
In the Pink
Yes on the upscale consignment. Just found three pairs of high end brands (think choo, manolos etc.) at a total of $350 for them all. I’ve never had such brands and never ever would pay their retail prices. Yes, they are lovely and more comfortable … but sanity in my budget reigns. I never spend more than $125 on shoes or dresses as I wear them the most. Skirts are around $75 and then I have a variety of short sleeve and long sleeve cardis or pullovers that tend to be cashmere, merino, blends purchased at end of season sales. I get my suits at Macys as well as online sales from Neiman-Marcus – all for $100 or less.
Anonymous
Midlevel midlaw. I buy all of my dresses on sale for around $250-$350 (originally $400-600). I only wear sheath dresses so I feel that I can spend more on a single piece than having to split my budget between tops and bottoms. I’m also very minimal on jewelry and accessories (same earrings and watch every single day, vs. some friends I know who have a dozen watches and an entire necklace wall; I wear the same two pairs of shoes and same purse every day, etc.).
A bit unrelated, but I found interesting the comment by one poster that many senior lawyers she works with would consider Tory Burch a splurge. I consider it a splurge as well and will only buy on sale, but Tory Burch and Michael Kors-type logo bags and shoes are rampant in the staff levels (and with their teenage daughters). I could not imagine having had that growing up, or my mom buying it for herself ever. I think it’s a high brand consciousness where I live now vs. where I grew up (where Coach was as Fancy with a capital F) but it’s such a strange sight to me. Especially when some of those assistants complain that they’re going to have to “go pro” to make ends meet.
Pretty Primadonna
I think a distinction has to be made between a splurge for clothing and a splurge for handbags and/or shoes. I spend cash on bags and shoes because they last forever. I do not, however, own any Tory Burch clothing because I think it is overpriced.
Bonnie
The cost of my clothing has gone up over the years. I grew up shopping at thrift stores on extra discount days and still don’t pay full price for anything. My shopping drastically changed when I realized that expensive stores like Bloomingdales, Nordstrom, Macys, etc have amazing markdowns.
In-house lawyer
My shopping guidelines:
* Shirts and Cardigans: <$40
* Skirts and pants: <$50
* Work and casual dresses: $60
* Occasion dresses: <$100
* Suits: <$250
* Shoes: <$100
* Purses: <$150
Occasionally, I'll spend more than the amounts listed above, but only if I really love the piece, I'll get a lot of use out of it, and it is unlikely to be discounted any further. FWIW, most of my clothes are purchased from Ann Taylor, BR, and Nordstrom Rack.
anne-on
I definitely try to buy higher end things on steep discounts (end of season sales). This usually works well for me as I have a very classic preppy style, and honestly things like pencil skirts, silk blouses, cashmere sweaters, etc. don’t change much from one season to the next. I have a hard time paying more than $100 or so for a blouse, and prefer to spend in the $50-$75 range. Dresses are usually $80-$160, and I try to keep blazers under $200. Full suits I’ll splurge on up to $300 or so, but I wear them so rarely that I tend to keep it to dresses and blazers.
anon
I own about ten things including suits, winter coats, shoes, and purses that are more than $500. Honestly, I cannot justify it. Most everything else I try to keep under $100 but I am sure most of my work pumps/flats and work dresses are $75-$250.
But yeah me same. My parents were willing to spring for clothes from Meijer (like a Super Walmart) but I had to get a job to get fancy clothes from Kohl’s. I learned about brand names from hand me downs.
I guess I know I am going to ruin my outfit somehow so I don’t ever want someone to bump into me with wine or sauce and have to clutch my pearls and fear that my $2K ______ is ruined…
My splurge is eating out and spa/beauty. I get my hair done once a month, plus products. I get my nails done every other week. I also get facials and wax and spray tans.
DC Anon
I’m a high-earning lawyer in a fairly formal work environment. The most I’ve ever paid for something in my wardrobe is a $1200 handbag that I got for $500. I only have two other handbags (that cost $260 and $20).
Work dresses: all in the $120-175 range, usually from Nordstrom (Classiques Entiers and Elie Tahari and a few other brands). I always buy on sale so the full-price cost would be more like $200-350.
Blazers: I buy all of my blazers secondhand in the $15-20 range and I almost always buy wool.
Work tops: My tops that I wear under blazers are all cheap — $10-30 from Banana Republic, Zara, etc. And my slacks are all wool and $60-120 (again, I usually buy on sale).
Work shoes: I do spend a bit more on my shoes. I like comfortable, well-made shoes (Stuart Weitzman and AGL, again always on sale) and I spend $100-250.
Full suits: I stick to Banana Republic and J. Crew for the few full suits that I own.
Jewelry: I wear nice jewelry that tends to look more expensive than it is, but I can’t bring myself to spend more than $200 for a piece of jewelry.
Handbags: I tend to carry the same handbag for a few years at a time and am generally willing to spend up to $300 for something that is exactly what I want.
Work coats: Wool coats are another item that I only buy secondhand in the $20-30 range.
Anonymous Associate
I’m a biglaw associate. Narciso Rodriguez pieces are classic and wonderful. I am guilty of wearing very, very expensive pieces, with half my closet being labels like Escada, Carolina Herrera, Risto, St. John, Narciso Rodriguez, Armani, Jimmy Choo, Louboutin, etc. But the other half is more “normal,” like Brooks Brothers, etc. I do try to get the more expensive pieces on deep discount on sales or from places like Gilt. I also have very few clothes compared to most people-prefer quality over quantity. I don’t think anyone in my practice group realizes that I wear expensive clothes, as I am the only woman in my group and my male colleagues are not fashionistas.
anonymous
The vast majority of everything I own is $100 and under, including my super nice pieces from Brooks Brothers/stuff at that level of quality. I tend to get most things on megasale. I work in a one step below business formal environment in DC.
AN
I don’t live in the US and envy you ladies with massive sales and free shipping! That said, now that my office is more casual than not, average cost is probably $200. That’s also because I focus on quality and my dresses last forever. And I don’t have to shop for 4 seasons so have fewer clothes overall.
Note that my shoes are more expensive as I have weird feet.
Runner 5
I feel like I could have written that comment exactly.
I feel that as I’m moving towards buying less, I’m paying full price (or close to it) a lot more often. I’m buying things when I need them rather than when I see something I like on sale, and I’m also buying nicer things so the full price is higher. Spending more money, buying fewer things, but having a more cohesive wardrobe… works for me.
anne-on
Determining a color scheme for my wardrobe helped a lot. I primarily wear neutrals (usually grey, navy, and black) for suits/dresses. That way I was able to know where my ‘holes’ are, and plan to buy blazers/skirts/blouses that coordinate well with those colors, preferably on steep sale.
Runner 5
Yes, me too. And it makes it really easy to not buy things that wouldn’t fit in my wardrobe.
SuziStockbroker
I don’t buy a lot of clothes and I definitely don’t have a $2K blazer. However, I am decidedly in the over $100 bucket for jackets and skirts/sheath dresses. I’d say I spend between $300-500 for a blazer and $200-350 for a skirt or sheath dress. Shoes are between $200-350 usually.
But again, I don’t buy much, and I only buy from retailers I feel comfortable with (labour practices etc) and generally natural fibres. I also do not live in the US where retailers seem to have sales all the time.
Household income $500K+ if that makes any difference.
AN
+ to the natural fibers!
Houda
Same on natural fibers, and I am also not US-based, so sales are not an option… online shopping neither.
Ellen
I agree with Suzi Stockbroker. There come’s a time that we all have to be a littel fruegel (even on Monday’s). My dad say’s I will NEVER find a husband if all I do is shop and eat and shop and eat all day w/o watcheing out for my health and body. I told him that I onley visit corporete to pick up tip’s on clotheing and dateing, but that I do NOT shop all the time. He did say that my credit card bills are getting more managabel, which is good, and he has NOT cut off my credit for at least 6 months (in Febuary–when I bought a new sound system). So I know I have to be more resourcful, and NOT spend all my money (or all my spouse’s money–if I am EVER to get a spouse). I hope to get a guy VERY soon, as I am workeing on it as we speak! I will report back to the hive if I am abel to snare this guy! YAY!!!
cbackson
I’m in the same boat. I buy fewer items, but tend to spend more to get items I know are well-made, natural fibers, etc.
Paying it forward
Good morning, I’m hoping for a little advice for a tricky situation.
My mother and I work in related industries (not healthcare, but think nurse and hopsital consultatnt). She has a coworker that has been a nurse for years, and most recently has been helping train and oversee the nurses at her hospital, but is now looking to move out of nursing and is considering hospital consulting, and in particular is interested in the company I work for.
I spoke to her last week, and think she would be a great person to work with, and I think has the right skills and mindset to do the work. However, in her resume and cover letter she is having translating her accomplishments and skills from nursing to what would make her great as a consultant, to the point where she wouldn’t make it past the resume screen my company does, and I suspect she will have a hard time making this transition in general.
I know I don’t owe her anything, but would like to help her, in particular because I think my line of work needs more people with her experience. Given that she has 3X as much experience working, how do I broach this with her?
mascot
So the problem is that she isn’t describing her skills well enough for the way your company screens applicants? I think you can offer some suggestions on how to describe her skills and experience as well as talk to her about how these skills are transferable. Just because she is experienced as a nurse and has worked for a long time doesn’t mean you can’t help her. Something along the lines of “hey, my company has a particular skill set description that they like to see in application materials. Do you mind if I make some suggested edits?”
ace
Second this. Position it as, “In my experience at my job, I’ve found that applicants tend to do better when they list accomplishments. . .”
Unrelated, my nanny sometimes says, “In my country, we do X and Y. Can I try that with the kids?” Just realized that she’s basically doing the same thing.
Anonymous
Hey do you mind if I make a few suggestions? You have great experience but I think we can tweak how you describe it to make it look like a better fit for my field.
Anonymous
Thanks so much, both for the wording, and the validation that I can be helpful. It’s particularly tricky because there is often animosity and a lack of respect between the two fields, which at least from my perspective is compounded by the age gap and I don’t want to come off as the know-it-all kid.
Times Square Area - Dining/Beauty
I’ll be in NYC soon and have several meetings in the times square area. Can anyone recommend a few non-touristy dining spots? Also, any decent nail/eyebrow places? Mine are awful and I’m hoping to squeeze it in.
East Coast Anon
Blue Fin (if you like seafood)
Editrix
Unique Threading 474 Seventh Ave. between 35th and 36th.
Lots of great dining if you stay out of Times Square. Ninth Ave. between about 42nd and 52nd will give you tons of fun, not-expensive options, all displaying menus, including Five Napkin Burger, Empanada Mama and Pure Thai Cookhouse. For something a bit fancier, Esca at 43rd and Ninth.
Alanna of Trebond
I go to Perfect Brows at 57th and 9th, but this may be a little far for you.
Kati Roll between 5th & 6th on 39th (street food).
Frustrated
Ladies, how do you not get so discouraged in dating? The last few guys I saw I had nothing in common with and then the latest one seemed great then showed his true colors and was really inconsiderate. I’m only 24 and I know these things takes time and patience but it can be super frustrating. I’ll be in grad school in a couple of years . I am pretty career oriented, am content and happy with myself and my social life, etc. but a fun, chill monogamous relationship would be nice in the meantime!
Veronica Mars
I think it’s totally natural to get frustrated. Then, every once and a while, you’ll have a GREAT first date and it’ll ignite hope again. In the meantime, I’d remind yourself what your big picture goals are (finding a gardening companion, long-term partner, etc) and why they matter to you. I also think you need to take breaks. When you start feeling bitter and burned out, give yourself a two-week vacation (deactivate, take a breather and pamper yourself). Go back whenever you’re refreshed and ready to come at it with an open mind.
Anonymous
I try to remember that you don’t need lots of suitors, just one if he’s the right one. And I make sure dating doesn’t take over my life. No, I’m not trekking across town for dinner. Let’s do wine some place convenient for me.
January
I think making sure dating doesn’t take over your life is key. Going on a bunch of first dates, or even just a bunch of dates with the same person you’re kind of lukewarm about , is inevitably kind of tiring. You need to find time for other activities that refresh you. I don’t really have any advice for not getting discouraged, though – I’m older than you, and I feel pretty bleak about the whole thing.
OttLobbyist
I try to think of dating as a research project. Everyone you date, whether its just one date, or a short relationship, teaches you more about what you actually need and want in a partner, and gives you insight into your own dating peculiarities. +1 for taking breaks and not letting it take over.
August
+1
CountC
You could do what I did and create an anonymous (and if you want locked) blog where you can write and vent about your terrible dates and frustrations. I find that writing it out helps me move past the frustrations instead of dwelling on it. I find that it goes in waves.
Tax devil
My experience with super cheap work clothing has backed up the saying “penny wise pound foolish”, as most of the items fell apart after a couple of seasons. Back when I used to shop at Marshall’s, old navy, and TJ Max, I never really had a wardrobe, just dozens of black pants and odd looking tunics that I bought because they were cheap. It is impossible to put together a working wardrobe unless you want to devote all your spare time to scouring the racks at these stores. Now most of my work clothes come from ann taylor and talbots and loft. I purchase things online when I get goes 40% off full price coupons. I buy gently used nice bags from ebay, and feel more put together. Also as a women of color, I feel more pressure to dress well at work as yo not be mistaken for the support staff.
anon
I’m going to NYC soon and really want to go to Momofoku. Is there a trick of when to go to have the shortest line? I’ll be in town all week, so any day of the week would be fine.
Anonymous
Which Momofuku restaurant?
anon
Isn’t his original one just called Momofuku?
Anonymous
I think they all have different names, like the ssam bar, noodle bar, ma peche, etc.
Anon
correct.
you are generally best off going early (like in the 6 p.m. hour). noodle bar is the original, but ssam bar is my favorite.
Veronica Mars
Thanks to everyone who gave suggestions for apartment questions a few days ago–I just signed the lease! The pest control comments were super helpful and I made sure to ask about the schedule. I also cornered two people leaving the apartment (both were actually in the process of moving out). I asked one girl, “Is there anything you wish you’d known before renting here?” She said she’d found mice. Yikes! Still went with them, though, because all my other non-negotiables were met. (And at this point in my career, some degree of ick is expected with my budget). Thanks all!
Brit
While you’re in the process of moving in, if you see holes where pipes come up or other places a mouse could fit, fill them with steel wool. We had a mouse about two years ago and the exterminator the landlord had come in did that – they can’t chew through it to get in.
Divorce -- etiquette question
So, my sister has been having marital problems for 3ish years. She lives far away and has 3 children, so we didn’t see each other often before all of this due to cost / timing. I haven’t seen her for >1 year and feel bad for her, but I dread seeing her # on caller ID b/c she will just want to vent about the estranged husband for ~ 1 hour or so at a clip. [Nothing is ever new, really, and she just wants to unload about him, so we never talk about the nieces/nephews or anything else.]
I am just exhausted. I miss my family and I miss my sister. But I just don’t have the time to listen to the rant which hasn’t changed in 3 years. FWIW, I work FT and have young children, so don’t have time to spend with my family like I’d like, let alone my friends, and I resent this situation for making me the bad guy for not picking up when I’m on travel / at work / driving / etc.
Any thoughts or advice for setting ground rules? Like you get 5 minutes to vent or we just will not talk about this? I get that it is a big deal to her (meanwhile our parent having cancer is not worthy of talk time it seems). She seems to have some sort of therapist (who has told her that it is good to talk about her feelings — bad advice? bad when taken to this degree) of some sort.
She is becoming (if not already) Miss Havisham.
Anonymous
It sounds like you’re putting a lot of frustrations in your own life on her. Limiting her to 5 minutes, insulting and belittling her problems by likening her to Miss Havisham, those aren’t going to fix you being exhausted and not having enough time for your family. You don’t set ground rules with her. Just don’t answer when you don’t have time to talk, and call her when you do, and end the call when you have to go, and don’t feel guilty about it. But also let’s stop pretending that she should just get over it.
Divorce -- etiquette question
Maybe it’s this: I haven’t been answering my cell at work (b/c I am working). When I pick up on the weekend, I get reamed out for not being available and supportive.
I’d like to at least make an attempt to say “I can’t talk for an hour and I won’t stay on if you are yelling at me for not being supportive. I love you and I am sorry you are going through this, but I can’t interract with you in this way any more.”
Otherwise, I don’t know. I am sorry that she is going through this, but she has alienated pretty much everyone else in her life and I don’t want to cut her off completely, but I am at a loss as to how to maintain any relationship with someone when really want an hour to vent every day and you are the bad guy if you don’t just to along.
Anonymous
Oh I thought from your initial post you had already tried saying that! Yes I agree, absolutely do not pick up at work, and if she is hostile when you call her back say “I can’t talk when I’m at work, and I’m not interested in being yelled at for that. If you want to move on let’s chat, if not I need to go.”
Blonde Lawyer
When I had a friend going through a rough time, I suggested she email me (to my personal email) if it was during the work day. If I was slow, I would respond promptly. If I was too busy, I’d read it and reply later that night. Normally, even a two line reply was fine. “He’s such a jerk. I can’t believe he said or did xyz.” She usually felt better just getting it all out and with email she could do it in real time even if I might not see it until later. Sometimes I’d see it and just send her a quick text. “Saw your email. Sorry he’s still bugging you. I’ll reply tonight.”
bridget
Could you email her when she calls you at work and say, “Hi; at work and it’s super-busy. Is this an emergency or can I call you later tonight?”
As for the rest of it: ugh. (I will assume that you’re not exaggerating, and that this is really eating away at you.) Perhaps try to slowly wean her off using you as a board to unload on? Shorten the calls by just a little bit each time; email her to ask about the kids; gently say that she’s been having this issue for years on end and that it obviously has only festered since then, so please try a different approach; etc.
I’m sorry that your mom has cancer. That’s terrifying.
Carrie...
I agree with this, actually. I do understand that these phone calls are draining at times, and you will need to practice cutting them a little short. But I know from MYSELF, that I often exaggerate a little bit how long they are and how much “stress” it adds to my life. How often are these calls? Does she really never ask about you etc..?
Remember – she’s your sister….. Probably you are the safest person she has to confide in.
I suspect that the time you spend on the phone with your sis is likely less than it would take to go visit her, right?
Some day, you’ll need someone to vent to as well. Hopefully, she will be there for you.
Divorce -- etiquette question
Nope — she doesn’t ask about us. She doesn’t even bother with the stock “hello; how are you” even. I pick up the phone and the download just happens. She seems to resent it and gets huffy if my children try to talk to me when she’s on the phone.
[And I do ask if her children are home or if they are at my BIL’s b/c it seems that she is often downloading with them in the background which is terrible and my “maybe we should talk another time” gets a mouthful back at me.]
moss
When one person tramples all over the social contract, the other person is allowed to abandon it as well. Your sister is being completely rude. Any measure you take to protect yourself will be acceptable.
Go check out captainawkward.com . You do not have to set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm.
Killer Kitten Heels
A hearty +1 to the Captain Awkward recommendation.
Are you me?
So, I had a family member who did this to me in the past. She was going through a very hard time, for a very extended time, and I just didn’t have the energy to deal, so I would ignore her calls. At some point I realized (yes, I’m a terrible person) that I could go in a room and shut the door, put my phone on speaker, and let her talk — I’d tell her I was doing laundry or cleaning or something — and I’d do work. Like, fire up my laptop and do an hour of work while she talks. If I clearly missed something that demanded a response, I’d either fake it (Oh, wow, really? You don’t say. That’s ridiculous), or occasionally admit that I missed that last part and ask her to repeat. In short, she got to dump everything she needed to, and I didn’t really absorb it or lose the full hour of personal time (which I really didn’t have to spare). Her life has turned around, she’s mostly happy now, and the relationship is much better. And, I think, better than it would have been if I had just shut her down.
Blonde Lawyer
Could you put on a headset and multi-task. My mom is a talker. I don’t usually say much on our calls and just do a lot of listening. Most calls last an hour. What I do is throw on my headset. I do the dishes, a load of laundry, empty the litter box and walk my dog. By the time I’m done, the call is usually wrapping up and these are all chores I had to do anyway. It makes them go by faster and I didn’t really lose any time in my day. You could also do this driving if you are comfortable with talking and driving.
BB
The “mute” button is your friend. :)
SoCalAtty
I do this do! I use my headset or my bluetooth on the drive home. Something to do while sitting in traffic, and I don’t feel like I’m neglecting my husband when I get home to talk to my aunts.
anon
I’m glad you’re not my sister. This is painful to read.
I understand that you don’t want to hear an hour of ranting all the time, as that can get taxing, but my goodness, she’s clearly going through a tough time. You are being very dismissive of her feelings. You can place limits on your conversations with her, but you can also do that without pretending like she’s insane. Re; your request for advice to save yourself some precious time and sanity: “hey sis, maybe let’s talk about the kids to take your mind of Ex a little. How was the school play? Doesn’t little johnny have soccer try outs coming up?” or “hey, I’d love to catch up but I only have 20 minutes right now.” Or simply don’t answer when you can’t talk, then send her a text saying you see that she called, you’re out of pocket, and you love her.
“She seems to have some sort of therapist (who has told her that it is good to talk about her feelings — bad advice? bad when taken to this degree) of some sort.”
Just because it irritates you doesn’t mean it is bad advice. “Keep your feelings bottled up inside and don’t ask your loved ones for support” said no therapist ever. Heaven forbid one day something happens in your personal life and you need your family to be there for you.
TBK
You’re right to a certain extent, but there’s no value in her sister being able to rant about the same things for hours at a time for years on end. It’s been three years. This isn’t something the sister is going through right now. It sounds like she hasn’t made any progress since the divorce first happened. And if she’s saying these things in front of the kids, yikes! A mom who continues to stew in the same place she was at just after the divorce and who trashes her kids’ father in front of them — bad, bad, bad. There’s a difference between being there for someone, being their dumping ground, and enabling their emotional stagnation by being their dumping ground. OP, have you ever tried pointing out (helpfully and with compassion) that she’s saying the same things she’s been saying for three years and that what she’s doing isn’t helping her get to a happier place (but in much better words)? “Venting” is only helpful when it releases tension so you can start figuring out what you’re going to do about it.
Mpls
+1 Yes to being able to vent, but no to dwelling on it and not moving on. Constantly complaining about something can turn into a feedback loop where instead of releasing the pain by having named and recognized it, you feed it instead.
Maybe the thing to say to sister (assuming you thing she is the least bit receptive, and probably on a call you initiate, rather than her calls) is “It seems all I hear from you is complaining about X. I’m concerned this negativity is taking over your life and the positive moments are being overshadowed. I’m also concerned that *I* am getting burned out hearing about it. I want to be supportive, but I don’t think this method is working anymore. I want to be able to tell you about things in my life and hear about how your kids are doing. Would you be willing to talk about creating a new normal for our calls?”
Support in hard times is good, but that doesn’t mean an unlimited stay at Complaint Camp.
Divorce -- etiquette question
I get that it is painful to her, but I’m at the end of my rope, too (so: if it were episodic bad things, different story; same with if this were all unfolding). I hoped that this would blow over, but my choice seems to be to put up with someone who is verbally abusive if I try to get a word in or am not always taking her calls. I don’t think that people do this for any sustained period when they get divorced (usually). And if they do, they drive people away. [And we’d like to come back when the coast is clear, but I don’t see that happenening any time soon.]
I get listening on mute. But I bet I’ll catch h*ll if I get busted for that (same for if I pause to talk to one of my pre-schoolers or try to serve the dinner I was cooking).
I think she’s gone off the deep end and resents me for not coming along when she demands it.
Anonymous
Yeah I think, reading more of what you’ve written, that she is a black hold you cannot and should not try to fill. You can and should tell her that she needs to treat you with decency, or you’re hanging up. And then do so. And I think you sounds like a good sister.
TBK
I think you need to set boundaries. Set up scheduled times when you’re willing to be available to talk — and, if you’re willing, carve out that time for her so you’re offering her your full attention if she’s willing to call only at your scheduled times (assuming it’s for a long conversation and not just to say “hey, what are you getting mom for her birthday”). So that can be an hour once a week, or two hours, or whatever you feel like you can give her without feeling resentful and without feeling like you’re shortchanging your work or family. If she feels like you’re not available to her, she really just needs to deal with that.
anon
Eek! When I replied, no comments subsequent to your original had been posted, so I didn’t know that she would become verbally abusive when you couldn’t speak to her or would call you during work (no one has time for that!!). It was also unclear that the divorce occurred three years ago-OP wrote that she’d been having marital problems for the last 3 years. I agree with you that that behavior is not ok and agree with suggestions for boundary setting. I’d still suggest trying to realize that I’m sure sister is suffering a lot more than you are- doesn’t mean you have to listen to her but maybe that will help take the edge off your annoyance.
Divorce -- etiquette question
Thanks — there hasn’t been a divorce (one was pending for a while). They are living apart but in a state where there isn’t a separation concept. But heading that way, I would have thought. Definitely not good for the kids: divorce is on/off/on/off/Daddy is here/not here/here/not here/repeat/repeat/repeat.
She wants to work things out (= him changing). She is angry b/c he may be a nut job, but if he is a nut job, he’s not going to change overnight to being a Great Guy You Want Back In Your House.
DCDarling
It may also be helpful if your sister saw a divorce or marital counselor so she’d have professional help to talk to about her frustrations and find constructive ways to act on it. I read a lot of columns by Carolyn Hax and her resounding advice is to seek professional help with marriage problems. Although venting to you is a quick fix for your sister, there is only so much you can do and a therapist could offer actual solutions to your sister.
anon
Can you multitask while you listen?
FWIW I went through a similar situation with a very close friend. It was a 6 year process between her 3 years of “I am going to leave him” to “I filed for divorce” and the drama of that for 1.5 years and the drama of the 1.5 years following the divorce (he wants this back, split time with kids, alimony late, seen out with a bimbo, etc.) During the first 3 years, her book club actually told her NO MAS about this over and over. So a lot of it was shifted to me (not in said book club).
She is now in a very happy loving relationship and has endlessly thanked me for being there and it kept our friendship alive and well (not so much for book club Bs). That being said….I folded a lot of laundry, made a lot of lunches, and did a lot of chores while on the phone with her.
If she needs advice, and doesn’t listen to yours, she might just need to unload (I am same age as my friend but single no kids or even boyfriend so I had third hand advice at best anyways). If she is truly reaching out direct her to someone who is professionally certified to help her and maybe keep with the tough love until she does something about it.
Anonymous
Does anyone have any suggestions for a lunch time speaker topic for a government/nonprofit OGC? what kind of topics would you like to hear about? Case developments/leadership/etc?
Blonde Lawyer
Depending on the type of government/nonprofit you are, I think a lot of people can benefit from training on recognizing and managing secondary trauma. This is the type of training given to prosecutors and judges that have to hear (and see) the intimate details of gory crime. It would apply to any agency that deals with people in crisis though. I’m not sure if secondary trauma is the correct word but I know it has an actual term of art.
There is also more specialized training for people that deal with sexual abuse victims and crimes and how that can impact their own sex lives. That reading about certain acts can cause certain bodily reactions and that doesn’t make one a deviant. Brain and body can be disconnected at times. You can be repulsed by something but still have a physio-reaction to reading something sexual.
I know this wouldn’t normally be a “lunch time” topic but I’m aware of one agency that started to get people interested in the subject by doing an informational lunch time topic to do a broad overview of the issues and let people know what other resources are out there for them to take the more in detail courses. Many people didn’t want to appear weak by signing up for the intense course and it was easier to put a toe in the water with the lunchtime topic.
anonymous
I’m a young prosecutor whose caseload is beginning to include more and more of those types of crimes. I’m not aware of any trainings offered on the subject but that sounds like something I want/need. Do you know where I can seek it out on my own?
Blonde Lawyer
I know the Mass Bar held a seminar on it recently but I couldn’t find their materials via google. There are a lot of articles online about it but they seem to just say “hey, here is this problem” with very little on what you can do to fix it. I do understand that recognizing the problem is the first step in the battle. Maybe contact one of the authors of the various “here is a problem” articles and see what programs they are aware of. Sorry I don’t know of the specifics!
Sugar Mama
We’ve talked about income disparity here before, and I wanted to gut check this one with you ladies.
I’ve been on a few dates with a guy I like well enough. He asked if he could take me out for a nice dinner on Saturday, and I said sure! On Friday, he texted that he hadn’t gotten paid on time and had “literally $20” to get him through the weekend. He asked if we could do something cheap or reschedule for another time.
Is it horrible and snobby of me to be turned off by this? I’m in my mid-20s, make a great salary, and manage my money well. This guy is in his mid-30s and has a decent job – but he completely runs out of money by the end of his pay period? I get that people go through rough times and have been there myself – so just don’t go suggesting fancy dinners.
In the end, I offered to take him to the movies. Afterward, he suggested we go out for a drink and recommended a really expensive bar. Like, $20 for a glass of wine expensive. At some point, he bragged about how after his paycheck is deposited he’s going to “go buy so much nice stuff.” After a couple rounds, he thanked me for being his “sugar mama for the night.” Uh, at least at this point I thought we were splitting the drinks since he had recommended the place.
Otherwise, I like this guy and could see it going somewhere. Am I being unfair in letting the money issues be the deal breaker?
Anonymous
Even if you made a fraction of what he makes, you are not on the same page with values. Dealbreaker.
Brit
+1 to values issue. My ex was like this where he would complain that he couldn’t afford the inspection on his car or new tires, but then wouldn’t make any type of attempt to create a working budget that could help him actually afford those things. After two weekend trips where I paid for pretty much everything (including some very nice hotel rooms), it really got to be too much, along with other issues we were having.
Lyssa
I agree. It’s not a disparity issue, it’s one of values, and, quite frankly, maturity (as in, he should, at his age, be prioritizing having a cushion and planning ahead, even if he makes very little money. I’d give him a pass on the first issue, because maybe he really does try and it just didn’t work out for reasons out of his control, but his later statements/actions suggest that that wasn’t really the case).
Anonymous
No, that seems irresponsible and would also be a turn-off for me. I think I’ve heard that the majority of people get divorced not because of infidelity, but due to financial reasons. It’s important to be on the same page.
Anonymous
+ 1 forget this one. Move on.
A Nonny Moose
I wouldn’t be turned off by the running out of money by the end of the week part, but by the fact that he didn’t see it coming, and the continued talking about money. If you’re broke, but have a job and are happy, I’m fine with that. I’m happy to go to cook dinners, go to outdoor movies, or go hiking. But thinking you can swing an expensive date and then ending up with $20? That to me seems immature, because you don’t have a handle on where you are with your money. Red flag.
mascot
Who pays for what can be tricky in the early stages so that may be part of the issue. Incompatible strategies for money are a dealbreaker, IME. You may need a little more information/time before you can tell if he lives cash-only and is debt free and this was a weird week or if he has bigger money management issues.
Anonymous
Nope! First off, you don’t owe anyone fairness in dating. And this isn’t about income disparity, it’s about irresponsibility and values.
anon
Nope. Totally fair of you. If it’s this much of an issue after a few dates, imagine how much of an issue it will be when you’re making choices like saving for kids’ college, buying a house, saving for retirement, supporting aging parents.
Money is one of the biggest reasons couples fight. I’d be alert for money management problems in addition to the fact that you have incompatible savings habits. This pattern of behavior would be enough to make me question whether we had long term potential.
I also don’t think it is shallow to want to date someone who can afford to do the types of things you’d like to do. I’m also a high earner and I’ve gone out on dates with guys who are not, but who have invited me to expensive places and then expected me to pay. It irks me a lot.
AN
Step away now.
Sugar mama????? Ick.
moss
Yes, UGH!! That was completely rude of him. He basically took advantage of you. I think your alarm bells are going off for a reason. Buying “so much stuff” with his paycheck to the point where he has to basically trick his dates into paying for wine is very immature. Calling you a sugar mama is very immature and rude. Back right away from this guy.
anon
Yeah this was it for me on top of the other stuff. Buh Bye
Anonymous
Nope, total deal breaker. If you are responsible with your money, do you really want to possibly marry someone with these types of money skills? Also, maybe I am just odd, but to me it doesn’t matter when I get paid? I have a credit card, and I assume most adults do as well. I pay it off every month, but it essentially makes it to where it doesn’t matter when I get paid, just that I get paid before the due date. Also what type of company is he working at that he got ‘paid late’??? That’s a very very odd thing to me unless he’s working at a super small company or recently switched jobs. This whole situation sends up a thousand red flags.
Brunette Elle Woods
This is not a matter of who pays on a date. This guy is broke and can’t manage his money! He’s about a decade older than you and at the end of the day, he is broke! He’s probably dating someone younger because any woman his age would not date someone like him unless they were in the same situation. Don’t waste your time or another minute thinking about him.
Renee
Not attractive behavior! I’d dump this guy. My husband makes far less money that I do and we make it work, but this guy is just pathetic. If he calls and suggests a picnic in the park, or a trip to a free or free-ish museum, or jazz in the park, or another date to fit his budget, maybe. But if he suggest another date that costs money, I wouldn’t do it. If he’s that broke, he shouldn’t be going out to bars and dinners. He should be using creativity to find dates that are inexpensive and fun.
pockets
I have an uncle who could be this guy. I could easily imagine a girl telling the exact same story about him. I feel bad for the women who date him. Don’t be that woman.
H
Me, too. I wonder if we’re cousins…
Runner 5
Total dealbreaker for me. Like others have said, it’s not that he’s low on money at the end of a pay period, it’s that he didn’t see it coming and doesn’t appear to see it as a problem.
bridget
“Am I being unfair in letting the money issues be the deal breaker?”
Dating isn’t about being fair; it’s about finding the right person for you.
I know people who are broke at the end of a pay cycle because they are aggressively paying down debt, save a huge chunk of their income for retirement, had an unexpected expense, are underemployed in a crappy economy, a staunch refusal to let credit cards pick up the slack, etc. That’s all understandable, and stuff wherein you know that for most people, it won’t always be like that – they will get better jobs, get rid of debt, or are suffering now so that they have a very easy and early retirement. There are people who don’t make a lot, but don’t need a lot, either.
But he’s blowing through everything, living the high life, and then being broke? No. It’s NOT snobby to want someone who lives within his means.
anon
This guy just sounds out of touch with reality. There’s nothing wrong with income disparity but he sounds irresponsible and… annoying.
Senior Attorney
Ugh. Dealbreaker for sure. It’s bad enough he can’t manage his money (as others have said, this is a “values” thing that should be a dealbreaker), but the cavalier attitude and the “sugar mama” comment say “run, don’t walk, far away!”
Allora
This + 1billion
Brit
I dumped a guy for similar reasons. He had a ton of student debt, as did I, but unlike me he was spending cash on so many things that I saw as unnecessary. Note that this person was a very gainfully employed professional since college (an engineer). Since we broke up, I see via FB that he has bought a new car, bought a dog, etc.
You are going to share a bank account with your SO one day.
Anonymous
Nope- and I make 4 times what my husband does. His attitude is really, really off and I wouldn’t waste one more date on him.
Anon DC
Why are you even questioning this? He’s irresponsible with money, immature, and intentionally took advantage of you. That’s a pretty big deal and more what I would describe as “character issues” rather than “money issues.”
That aside, I wouldn’t have gone on the date after the “I only have $20 left for the weekend” comment. There is nothing wrong with choosing not to date someone who has a significantly lower standard of living than you do. Yes, you’ll be missing out on some great guys who just don’t make much money, but that’s absolutely your call to make and does not make you “unfair.” As others have said, fairness has no place in dating. Your only responsibility is to not be an a-hole.
Brunette Elle Woods
I noticed some discoloration in the center of my forehead from over exfoliation. Any recommendations for a product that will lighten the spot?
naijamodel
Let it heal completely first! But anything with glycolic acid or retinol should work. Products by Alpha-hydrox (souffle, spot lightener, cleanser) or by Roc (their treatment pads). You can also use a hydroquinone cream like Ambi (Murad has one too but I personally wouldn’t spend that much). I think Alpha Hydrox’s spot treatment actually has both glycolic and hydroquinone in it.
Brunette Elle Woods
I noticed it in a picture last year and thought it was just too much bronzer. I think it is light enough that no one else notices it, but I do! I was thinking of using a Roc nighttime cream for discoloration.
https://www.rocskincare.com/night-creams/5-1-restoring-night-cream
or
https://www.rocskincare.com/night-creams/retinol-correxion-sensitive-night-cream
anonymous
My boss and his wife are about to have a baby. I know we traditionally avoid gifting up, but wanted to get thoughts on the appropriateness of a “team” gift for the two of them. There are 10 people on the team, and we’re looking at a gift in the $150 range (so $15 a piece). It’s meant to be a small gesture, not a big thing.
TIA!
Anonymous
Perfectly appropriate. I would suggest instead “if anyone is interested in contributing to a baby gift for boss, please bring $ to xyz’s office by [date]. A gift will be purchased with any money in the envelope on that date.”
AN
Of course you can buy a gift for the baby! Either individually or pooled together. Totally appropriate.
pockets
We did this for my boss and he really appreciated it. I think we did about the same thing – $150 over 7 people, so about $25 pp.
Cimorene
Totally appropriate. One way to make it really easy for those contributing and organizing this is to take whatever people contribute and buy a bunch of board books for the baby’s bookshelf. No one, of any age, can ever have too many books.
DDD
Has anyone here had breast reduction? I’m pondering it. I used to be a C, but post-kids and in my early 50’s, I’m now a 34DDD. My bottom half is a size 8, but the top is way bigger. I’m thinking about just getting back to C/D, but I’m not sure that I am big enough to make it worthwhile and I have mixed feelings about elective surgery. I’d love to hear feedback about the risks/rewards.
mascot
I had one 20 years ago (late 30s now). I don’t regret it, but the results (other than the lift to shape) haven’t been permanent. I went from a DD to a solid C. I’m back to DD Part of this has been weight fluctuation and childbearing/nursing. If I had to do it again now, I’d go smaller (like b/c) to handle any future weight gains. My body naturally holds size there and no surgery is going to fix that. I’d ask your doctor what their experience is with long term results and how many patients come in to get them re-done.
mascot
Oh, and recovery took a while. I don’t think I could lift anything heavier than a gallon of milk for about a month, although I was out and about within a week.. The scarring is pretty significant (I was self conscious about it when dating) and it takes a long time for the nerves to regenerate.
KT
Are you in pain/discomfort? I would giver it serious thought-it is an incredibly painful procedure and the recovery is rough. If you’re dealing with chronic back pain from the weight of your breasts, then absolutely consider it, but I’d caution going forward unless it’s something that seriously bothers you (pain, self-consciousness, etc)
Annie
Along those lines, has anyone had significant neck pain relieved by breast reduction? I have pretty much constant neck pain and have breasts very disproportionate to my overall size, but it’s not really clear to me how likely it is that surgery would help.
CTAtty
Yes, I had significant neck and shoulder pain before mine. I went to a plastic surgeon, who sent me to an orthopedist for x-Rays and an evaluation to make sure the pain was not due to something structurally wrong with my spine. It wasn’t, and the reduction helped immensely. Because of the ortho veal, my insurance actually covered the procedure as being medically necessary to as
Dress the pain. I went from a DD to a B. That was 9 years ago and it is still the best decision I’ve ever made. My recovery wasn’t too bad (back to work in a week and a half, I forget how long it took to get back to exercising, etc) and I didn’t need the narcotic pain mess the doctor prescribed. Honestly, the worst part was getting the drains out post-op.
Anonymous
I had a friend with a reduction who found it much more painful than she thought – I think it depends on how much tissue they remove and how dense your breasts are. If there are other things that might reduce your weight, like dieting, it might be helpful to try that first.
Bonnie
A friend had it and raves about how much better her life is now. She was having back pain and insurance paid for everything.
MJ
I’ve had two good friends who did it because they were each really out of proportion and each had back issues. Both of them were so glad they did. However, because they both did it early (one in college, the other in b-school), they have grown again due to weight gain. (They both gain weight “in that area”). Both wish they had gone smaller initially, but they didn’t really factor that in. The scars are significant, but not versus what size they wanted to be/quality of life uptick. Plus, both of them had tons of “have you lost weight” comments from people who didn’t know them super-well. (Both did the surgery on a break from school, so they didn’t see people for a few months.) Overall, they are both very glad they did it.
Pain experience
I think the pain from the surgery will vary by person. Past pain experience will often give you an indication of what you can expect, but not always. I had bilateral mastectomies and reconstruction about 18 months ago and really didn’t have any pain. I was uncomfortable, but not to the point of taking any pain medication once I was home from the hospital. I had the same experience with other surgeries. The tiny lump removed from my tongue and a endometrial biopsy — those to me were painful. Weird I know.
Runner 5
Those of you with kids who will be going to college soon, please please please educate them about how to deal with leftovers. I’ve just been attempting to deal with festering moulding leftovers that a flatmate left out before they went away. I didn’t know potato wedges could go that colour. Or that my stomach was so weak.
(Counting the months til I can live alone…)
Anonymous
how long does it take to deal with them? through them out, container and all
Runner 5
They were in a really expensive mixing bowl which didn’t belong to me, or I would have thrown it all, of course.
Katie
Throw it out and explain what happened. I don’t care how negligent your parents were in teaching you life skills, everyone knows that food left out will go bad. Don’t let them tread on your goodwill!
moss
Did you read the article about Amazon in the NYT over the weekend?
I have a friend who went to work there in the early 2000’s but left soon afterward. He is a brilliant guy so I assume the company culture was not for him. (I am in the cohort of programmers who are also kind of slackers.)
Putting women on a performance improvement plan because they weren’t at their best after cancer or having a baby stillborn: that’s appalling.
Anonymous
It makes me not want to shop there anymore. I still will, because their product is a game changer, but I won’t like it, and I certainly am not looking to roll more of my life into Amazon.
Anonymous
I was absolutely appalled by it. I thought after 5 years in Big Law I’d seen it all, and most of it was fairly run-of-the-mill tough workplace but the stuff about the treatment of employees with devastating personal issues like cancer and a stillborn child was absolutely horrifying. I shop a TON on Amazon (and have their credit card so I save quite a bit of money by shopping there) but I am really going to make a conscious effort to buy anything that’s not urgent elsewhere and save Amazon for the stuff I need in a couple days and can’t buy locally.
Little Red
I’m reading it now and it’s making my short hair curl.
August
I read few articles about amazon few months back following a link posted by some one on askamanager. I was horrified. I was especially interested in those articles because I am an engineer and I keep getting told by a couple of my friends that I should try to get into amazon because they pay a lot of money. After reading those articles, I just decided that amazon was not a place for me. Two days back, I got a mail from recruiter on linkedin about a software engineering job on amazon. I just ignored it without giving it a second thought.
MJ
I have two good friends who work there. They hate it. They are both ex-biglaw and have never worked harder. The “tenets” or “rules” or whatever the article calls them can be justified to throw nearly anyone under the bus. My friends is an absolutely fantastic attorney and he is struggling there because he supports HUNDREDS of people as the only counsel for a division. Of course he gets negative feedback for not responding immediately to every email. (He tends to get 300-400 per day!). He says it’s awful but very hard to get out because so many other Amazon people all want to leave too….
Paging Summer!
To the summer associate who wrote in over the weekend that she was feeling unfulfilled and bored now that her summer job was over:
For me, anyways, that’s perfectly normal. I love my work and am fulfilled by it. At the risk of making a taboo statement, my work brings meaning to my life. During the times in my life when I’ve had bad jobs or been unemployed, I’ve been miserable. Even during very slow periods at my job now, I feel like something’s missing. (Full disclosure here: I had a subscription to the Wall Street Journal when I was in 7th grade, so I was never your average kid. ;) ) I stay very involved in groups and activities now as a working adult, so that when I hit slow periods at work, I have something to transfer my energy to and I can feel good about.
Don’t feel bad about missing a sense of importance or being useful. People are telling you you should be partying and relaxing right now, but how much of that can you really do? I can lay on a beach for two days tops before I go insane. I certainly understand wanting to have a purpose again. For now, I recommend getting a part-time job if you can find one or throwing yourself into clinics. I worked a million hours at my clinic 3L year because I really loved helping our clients, but also because going home to watch daytime tv seemed empty to me.
ITDS
Perhaps you should look into a job at Amazon, per the article above. You would feel valuable 24/7 and no doubt become a holy terror with the 3 AM emails and texts!
Anonymous
Haaaaaaa
Anonymous
I do think it’s worth examining the “sense of importance” that she said felt missing. I got a vibe of running away from something in her post. There’s something to be said for taking/enjoying downtime and sometimes in life, it’s not your choice and you may be forced into taking it (your own medical issues; a spouse, parent or child, layoffs, etc.). It’s a really good life skill to have.
Anonymous
I think it’s natural to have that adrenaline letdown, and I know I had it after 2L summer and couldn’t wait to start work. But people are right when they say to enjoy this time because the excitement of big projects and feeling important at work goes away quickly, and then you’ll just be tired of not seeing your friends for weeks, always being that person who talks about wanting to take up X hobby but never having the time to do it, and having a small fort of Amazon boxes taking up room in your apartment–filled with things you “needed” ASAP and didn’t have time to go to the store for, but you’re literally too tired to find the scissors to open them, and now you don’t even remember what’s in there.
I get it if you’re not someone that likes to just sit in a chair and read all weekend long, so “relaxing” may not appeal to you, but do try to maximize your “you” time however you like to spend it. Start learning a language, train for a marathon, master 100 ways to cook chicken, be aggressively social, etc.–whatever you enjoy doing, make it your “job” if that helps you feel more occupied. You’ll appreciate that you took the time to pursue those things now.
wedding dress
I’m getting married in the spring and am brainstorming ways to use the vintage lace wedding dress that my grandmother and mother wore. Wearing it in its present form would be ideal, but that’s out — even if the sizing could work with alterations, my mom apparently danced it to pieces at her own reception. I’ve read that others have used the lace to gather their bouquets, but I’d like to do something beyond that. I’m wondering if there’s a way to make any part of it wearable without spending a ton of money. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Also, it seems like there’s been mention of several Hive weddings coming up in August and September — good luck to those who are in the home stretch!
Mpls
The satin/silk/fabric of the skirt as a sash around the waist? If the sleeves were lace, do enough of the sleeves/bodice exist that they could be converted into a bolero jacket or overlay for a sleeveless gown? Use it to make the ring pillow for the ring bearer? Bowties for the grooms men?
anonymom
I love the ring pillow idea–this is the first thing I thought of. You could also use the fabric and lace to line the flower girl’s basket.
NYC tech
Lace veil! Or edging for a veil or fascinator. Then it’s prominent in your photos.
AN
Lace veil?
Sleeves or trim for dress
AIMS
Find a professional dress maker and see what he/she says. You may be able to use part of it or they have some other creative solution.
Meg Murry
I agree with asking a pro. When was the last time the dress was taken out of it’s box or wherever it’s being stored? You probably need to check that it hasn’t fallen apart even further or been attacked by moths or mice or whatever first so you know how much material you even have to work with.
Separate idea: my parents have a frame in their living room that contains some piece of lace that my grandmother and her sister crocheted, backed by a piece of their mother’s wedding dress. If you don’t use the lace in a dress, is there a way you could preserve it some other way and incorporate that into your wedding and/or home?
wedding dress
Thanks for these ideas! The cathedral veil that they both wore is still around, so I’m considering wearing that… but maybe a shorter veil made out of the lace dress would be a good option. That might free me up to look at some dresses that wouldn’t have worked with the original veil. I’d love to buy a plain, ivory gown and have the lace overlay the whole thing, but I’m guessing that would be more expensive than I’m prepared for, and would maybe require more lace than I’ll actually have. Making sleeves is definitely something I’ll check into.
Thanks all!
Marie
A lace top made to wear over over a plain dress can be beautiful. Something like this. https://www.etsy.com/listing/176197279/blouse-cropped-short-sleeve-lace-top?ref=br_feed_59&br_feed_tlp=weddings
nutella
Not sure you are still checking this, but a professional may be able to advise on how the dress can be incorporated — I keep picturing Molly Ringwald in Pretty in Pink putting dress pieces together!
anonymous
Would you find it weird or otherwise think less of someone/their relationship if she chose not to wear an engagement ring? I’ve been having this issue with people suggesting that I’m somehow less engaged because I made that choice, which is not what I expected in my major east coast city.
Scarlett
Not at all. I can’t even see how this is an issue anyone would notice or care about. For what it’s worth, I didn’t wear one either, but that’s because I wanted to keep my engagement secret so we could elope without commentary.
Anon
I would find it weird or otherwise think less of a person who judges another person on what jewelry, if any, they choose to wear to celebrate their union, or how else they choose to celebrate it. Not my marriage, not my business.
meme
I just can’t see how I could ever care about this, or give it more than 2 seconds thought.
Ginjury
As in you just decided to forgo the engagement ring and holdout for the wedding ring? I wouldn’t think it’s weird since it’s something I’m considering if/when that happens, but I do worry about how other people will react. I think that if you’re comfortable with the decision, it really doesn’t matter how others react. If having an engagement ring isn’t important to you, you absolutely shouldn’t waste the money on it.
anonymous
Well, I’ll wear a wedding band with no stones on it, so I will wear a ring, but it’s not like I’m just waiting ’till the wedding to buy what others would consider a legit ring.
I’ve been engaged for a year, and it’s weird how many comments I get that give the impression that somehow I’m less engaged or whatever. It doesn’t bother me much, but it was really unexpected given the crowd I’m normally around.
Anonymous
I’d notice it, sure, because it’s out of the ordinary but I wouldn’t make any judgment beyond assuming you’re not really a jewelry person/didn’t want to spend money on it.
If you were engaged for a long time with out a ring or a concrete wedding date, I’d wonder what the deal was.
anonymous
how long is a long time? we were engaged for a year (ish?) maybe longer with no ring and no concrete date. Then we set one like a week ago for the end of august. I don’t remember when I started mentioning to people that we were engaged. It may have been later than when it occurred.
Anonymous
I mean, if it’s been a year and you’re not wearing a ring and you don’t have a date and you’re not actively planning a wedding, yeah I’m not really going to think of you as engaged. I wouldn’t say that, but if you’re not actually planning a wedding why tell people you’re engaged.
Are you the poster who is trying to plan a very small DC or maybe scuba wedding or maybe the courthouse and a party? Because if so honestly at this point I think something else is going on. You seem very concerned and not to have any confidence in the decisions you are making, which is kinda sad. It sounds like you’re doing a pretty good job of things, no need to worry what random people think.
anonymous
no, not the same person.
Anonymous
I tend to think of “engaged” as actively planning a wedding, not a pre-marital limbo stage. I’m guessing the lack of a date is the reason people questioned your status, not the lack of ring (which may have contributed but wouldn’t have been as much of an issue with a set date).
Senior Attorney
Back when I was younger, my friends and I used to say “you’re not really engaged unless you have a ring and a date.” I wouldn’t say such a ridiculous thing now, but I do think that to be engaged implies that one is planning on getting married in the foreseeable future, and I also think there is a tendency to use the terms “engaged” and “finance/fiancee” to mean “committed non-marital relationship” when people really have no plans to actually get married. All of which is to say if you have no ring and also no date, and it’s been a year already, I would tend to think you are “engaged” in the latter sense rather than the former sense.
ArenKay
I never wore an engagement ring (hated all the sexist/woman-as-property associations there), and never heard one word about it. But we also got married 6 months after getting engaged. I think Senior Attorney is right — this may be more about the no-date-after-a-year than the ring itself.
southern anon
It doesn’t seem per se weird to me to get engaged and waiting a bit to set a firm date. I am from the south, and getting engaged pretty early is common down here. I’d say at least when you’re young (ie, right out of college, or in your early-mid twenties) the idea of engagement as a “next step” in the relationship– even though you haven’t set a date– is totally normal. See, the rash of engagements that all occurred within 2 weeks after graduation at the ripe old age of 21, and then after law school at 24-25. The engagement signaled the commitment to get married, for sure, but “the foreseeable future” stretched much longer when you were young, figuring out your job situation, moving after school, and likely broke.
Marie
What? No. I wouldn’t think about it, but if I did, I would probably respect them a little bit more, if only because I know it can be challenging to buck tradition.
anon
I have friends who think diamonds are bad but they still wore rings. That being said, I agree with your decision. That’s way too much money for a ring I would never wear, that’s not my style, that I would feel horrible losing because of the money and not the idea of the ring, and besides men don’t have to wear them. But hey, maybe that’s why I am still single!
bridget
I wouldn’t judge you at all, but I would also understand if men kept hitting on you with the expectation that you aren’t spoken for. You aren’t less engaged than anyone with a ring; you’re just less obviously engaged (to the casual observer who has never met you before).
L in DC
I didn’t do an engagement ring either, and we waited to tell people we were officially engaged until we set the wedding date. So then it was “we’re engaged, getting married in x month!” I didn’t get any weirdness from people at all, just normal surprise when they looked for a ring that wasn’t there. Maybe try giving people the benefit of the doubt that they are just inelegantly expressing their confusion?
Baconpancakes
I might be confused for about five seconds after you said you were engaged and I looked and didn’t see a ring, but once you said, “I’m not really into jewelry/I hate the patriarchical tones of an engagement ring/We’re really anti-diamond because the ethical issues are so appalling,” I’d say, “Oh, good for you!” One of my best friends doesn’t have an engagement ring, and it makes perfect sense for her.
KT
I’m married and never wore an engagement ring or wedding band. I’m not a big jewelry person, and we were laser focused on getting rid of debt(student loans, mostly) that we put every dollar towards extra payments–the cost of a ring seemed silly with that in mind. We got $2 bands off Amazon for the wedding ceremony which we both lost rather quickly.
I do wear a faux engagement ring that I got for $25 at Piercing Pagoda (SPLURGE haha) that i wear for formal occasions when I want something on my hand. I’m always amazed by how many people think it’s real.
We might get real rings eventually, but it’s not important to use and we’d rather pursue our other financial goals. I’ve never had anyone question it or anything.
anon
I’m not planning on wearing a typical engagement ring and my SO (he’s more traditional) knows not to spend money on something I won’t wear. I hate the idea of having something that just flashes “ENGAGED” or “FIANCEE” around. I’ve told him I will wear a band during our engagement, and he will too, because why should I be the only one marked?
Must be Tuesday
I don’t think it is weird not to have an engagement ring. I didn’t have one, and I do wear a wedding band now. I had 2 or 3 encounters when I first got engaged that were awkward for a few seconds when a friend reached for my hand and said, “oh, let me see the ring!” but I told everyone who asked why I didn’t have one and if anyone thought it was odd, they didn’t let on.
Boden sizes?
Can anyone comment on how boden sizes compare to j crew, ann Taylor, etc? I am usually a 2 tall in jcrew. Thanks.
Anon
Don’t bother ordering dresses. Everyone on here will tell you they’re incredibly short-waisted, even in the talls. I’m 5’7 and once ordered a dozen dresses on sale to try them, thinking I’d return whatever didn’t work. I returned them all: the waist on a regular dress hits just a little lower than an empire.
Anon
As a counterpoint, I also wear tall sizes in J.Crew and have numerous workhorse Boden tall dresses. The other Anon is correct in that many Boden dresses are short waisted, and I tend to only keep one dress out of every 5-6 that I order, but that one dress is awesome and lasts forever. It’s worth a shot.
ArenKay
I’m with this Anon. Because they provide pretty accurate garment measurements on their website, you should be able to figure out close matches. As a tall person, some Boden dresses just won’t work for me (reading reviews has helped me figure that out in advance), but the ones that do are terrific. I don’t buy J. Crew anymore, so can’t help you with size conversion.
Hollis
Anyone use a kneeling office chair/stool? Standing desks are all the rage and I need to do something about my lower back pain, but the kneeling stool looks more appealing to me, in part because I don’t want to make too big a change to my current configuration in case it doesn’t work out for me.