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For busy working women, the suit is often the easiest outfit to throw on in the morning. In general, this feature is not about interview suits for women, which should be as classic and basic as you get — instead, this feature is about the slightly different suit that is fashionable, yet professional.
This affordable black and white suit is calling my name — I love the V-neck collar, hook and eye closures, and stretch fabric. Black and white patterns can be slightly tougher to style than plain old gray, but pastels work well in addition to neutrals like white or black. I may be odd in that personally I don't like to pair red with a black and white pattern because it seems too '80s to me, but that's just me. Another pro: all pieces are available in regular (0-16) and petites sizes. The jacket (Halogen® ‘Trace' Stretch Weave Suit Jacket) is $79, and the pants (Halogen® ‘Trace' Stretch Weave Suit Pants) are $49. The matching skirt (not pictured) is $39. All prices will go back up to $68-$148 after the Nordstrom Anniversary Sale ends.
The jacket and pants are available in plus sizes as well.
(L-all)
Sales of note for 9.10.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Save up to 40% on new markdowns
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…
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And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
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- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
LA bound
I just booked a trip for eight nights in the LA area. The first few nights will be in Monarch Beach and we are open on the second half, but are strongly leaning toward Santa Barbara. It will be DH and I and we’re renting a car. We are both in our early 30s and want a mix or active and relaxation. Neither of us have been before. Would love some recommendations for must do’s-restaurants, hikes, beaches, areas to stay. Thanks!
Senior Attorney
LOL neither Monarch Beach nor Santa Barbara is really “the LA area,” but anyway…
It’s a long drive from Dana Point to Santa Barbara and a lot of it will be in heavy traffic unless you go in the middle of the night. So be warned about that. I might stop off mid-way and do a night in Santa Monica/Malibu. I like to stay at the Georgian Hotel in Santa Monica (right across the street from the beach) and then check out the Getty Villa in Malibu. Rustic Canyon Wine Bar and Seasonal Kitchen in Santa Monica is a great place to eat. The “regular” Getty Museum is awesome, too, and has amazing views of the whole area.
LAJen
This is exactly what I would recommend, too! Blue Plate Oysterette is not too far from the Georgian and has great seafood. Herringbone and Manchego on Main in SM (a little further south) are also delightful, with lots of little bars in the area to walk to.
Anonymous
It’s a haul from the OC to Santa Barbara and I don’t personally love SB (as a visitor – it seems like a nice place to live if you can afford it). With your time frame, I’d probably stay in the LA area for the second half of the trip.
Pat
If the first half of your trip is in Monarch Beach/OC than I would also suggest spending the last half of the trip in the LA area. There is plenty to do in LA if you plan well. Here are some ideas (or a repeat of what others have mentioned):
– Santa Monica, particularly Getty Villa and Getty Center (right off the 405 fwy). Both have free entrances but you’ll need to book tickets online for the Villa. They also offer 2 for 1 parking; if you pay to park at the Villa then you can use the same pass to park at the Center or vice versa. The art work inside these places are amazing and the architecture outside is top notch.
– Pasadena; you can walk around the Rose Bowl, visit some local restaurants and do some shopping in Old Town Pasadena. You can also visit the Huntington Library & Botanical Gardens as well.
– Heart of LA: California Science Center which houses the Endeavor and the newly acquired fuel tank. It is pretty amazing. Did I mention that you might also get to visit JPL if you are in Pasadena?
– Chinatown, Little Tokyo and Olvera Street: This is all within 1-2 miles of each other or if you want, you can probably walk. Not only there these historic districts of LA, they also have tons of good food.
– Santa Monica also has great hiking trails. Some go all the way up to Santa Barbara.
MJ
I have posted this about a million times, but if you are going to the West Coast, Sunset magazine has so many great recommendations. Even when they do stories on towns that I live or have lived in, they always identify super-awesome gems. Get thee to their interweb place (cannot use a certain word for mod purposes).
Anon for this one FOR SURE
This is correct. Look at Sunset.
red and black
Ha, I always feel a bit weird pairing red and black because where I live, those are school colors. During the fall, so many people around me plan work outfits (esp. on Friday) that incorporate their red and black or their orange or whatever. Why yes, I do live in SEC country, why do you ask?
Anonymous
I get it — I’m in the Big 12, and there is no way I’d buy or wear anything burnt orange!
Anonymous
Are they borrowing sorority color naming conventions?
Anonymous
Same! Signed, an Aggie.
Anonymous
Of course, it’s kind of an ugly color in most instances, so it isn’t too hard to avoid.
SW
Hook ’em Horns! ;)
Amanda
I’m a Yellow Jacket, so I intentionally avoid Red and Black! THWG!
NewJob
+1, Go Jackets :)
Mpls
Minnesota, Big 10, Better Dead than Red.
Anonymous
Michigan State, Big 10, I’d rather die than wear maize and blue OR scarlet and gray!
Kitty
I wore a really cute burnt orange sweater dress with maroon leggings and I got to work and my boss said GOOOOO HOKIES. And we aren’t even close to Virginia Tech. Never again! I feel your pain!
Not into sports
My husband was wearing an orange and white Tiger Beer shirt (southeast Asian beer) in rural South Carolina at the grocery store and a lot of people were complimenting his shirt or making other “you are one of us” type statements. He found it so odd that so many people knew this obscure beer reference. Then he realized they all thought he was a Clemson fan.
Runner 5
For me it’s blue and gold. And on Wednesdays.
(The UK is weird).
Recovering lawyer
Question for the ex-lawyers: what did you do with your law license(s)? I’m happy in my current career and have no plans to return to practicing law but I’m planning to keep my license in my current state on “inactive” status so I will have the option to return to law without retaking the bar. I’m also barred in another state and am thinking of letting that one lapse entirely because the fees, even for inactive status, are super expensive. I have no plans to ever live in that state again and there’s no reason why I’d be more likely to move there than to any of the other 48 states where I’ve never held a law license (no family ties to that state or anything) but somehow it seems kind of scary and final. Thoughts? One law license in the state you currently live in is enough for a non-lawyer, right?
AIMS
I’m still practicing, but I took two state bars and gave one up when I realized that I would never practice there and would never live there. It did feel weird and a little scary to formally “resign” from a bar but ultimately it made no sense for me to keep the license given the expense of this state and the total PIA CLE requirements. It’s been a few years now and it was a great decision! I get happy every time I even think about it.
Ellen
Yay, Kat! I love this pant’s suit, but the manageing partner will NOT approve it for me. I do hope the HIVE buy’s b/c evenetueally, mabye this will change at my law firm.
As for the OP, yes, I have a freind, Laurie, who took the DC AND Virguinia Bar’s. But now that she has had kid’s and her ex pays her bills, she decided NOT to practice ANY law’s any more. So when they came around lookeing for bar fees–and they were NOT cheap–she did NOT pay the bill’s. Before you know it, she got DUNNING notices from ATTORNEY’s she knew! They started to bring colection actions in court against her for lot’s of money (in the thousand’s), but she got rid of them when she agreed to RETIRE from the bar! And she is onley 36 year’s old!
CountC
At one point I had a license in three jurisdictions. I am in a non-attorney role currently and have no plans to go back to practicing. I have kept the license in my current jurisdiction active. I resigned the other two as I have no plans to go back to those jurisdictions, nor do I have any plans to practice again. Kind of a waste that I took that second bar, but oh well! At least I can say I passed VA, which is supposedly one of the harder ones?
In my current jurisdiction you can only stay inactive for three years with the easy re-activate option of paying the active fee and catching up on CLEs. Past that and you have to file a petition for reinstatement.
SFAttorney
Yes, one license in the state you currently live in is enough for a non-lawyer. I am practicing and kept up another license on inactive status for years (like 20-some!) and just withdrew this year because of the fees and little likelihood that I’d practice there. Even though I didn’t plan to practice there, it’s where I’m from and it was an accomplishment to pass that bar, so it was a little emotional to withdraw in that state.
PSA on pants for pears
I have some BR Sloane pants, but find them to be snug in the seat and way too big in the waist (not a surprise: I fit BR curvy cut pants perfectly in size X curvy but not on size X non-curvy). The idea of the Sloane is great though.
It is a bit more casual (and rarely on sale), but the Athelta Palisades cropped pants are fantastic and fit perfectly off the rack. The fabric is a bit more casual (but I’ve been wearing them on Fridays to my BigLaw office that allows denim on Fridays). They wash and hang dry. I went back and bround a second pair. The sizing is consistent for me: my same size X.
Anon
Agreed on the Sloane fit. As an alternative I actually really love the Old Navy crop pant for the office – can’t remember the style name off hand. I’m 5’8″ and buy them in the tall size so they fit like an ankle pant instead of an actual crop.
Anon
Wanted to continue the discussion here to see if there’s any more stories — anyone make a huge career shift from one thing to another where you had to take a chance/take a pay cut either permanently or temporarily or accept some instability? How did it work out? And if you did it/considered it — is there a magic number that you said you’d need to have in cash, a 401k etc. before even considering such a move?
Particularly interested in people who left behind something high paying for something they enjoyed more.
Anonymous
I know two lawyers who went back to teaching. But law is funny — so many people go to law school who have a stated intent not to practice. I don’t think that anyone goes to med school for fun (or many other professional degrees). Granted, my law school sample size is huge, but I could think of dozens of non-practicing lawyers in my SE US city (and in DC, it’s into the hundreds).
$ (often marrying well) is often key to the leap. I can’t think of anyone who lept without that side of life being manageable. No one voices regret (but I know I would — I think of BigLaw as the NFL — a great gig compared to what my poor family has had for centuries that I would be silly to leave when I have a lifetime of bills before me that I am otherwise ill-suited to pay) (and it’s not like I live like a queen, but I have kids and will want to retire at some point and childcare is just as expensive if I work at something lower-paying (not working is not an option)).
Anonymous
I’m 8 years out of law school and although I now know quite a few people who are not practicing (although many are in JD-preferred fields or doing things they could not do without a law degree, e.g., teaching law), I do not know a single person who went to law school with “a stated intent not to practice.”
Anonymous
I can see that with younger lawyers. I’m in my early 40s. I went to law school in the SE US back when you could graduate with 45K of debt if you used your summer earnings, worked PT, and lived very frugally (an in the SE US, that was quite possible). I heard a lot of “doing this for my parents,” “BA, so I’d otherwise be in grad school or unemployed,” and “I want to teach / be a professor.” Many other people went into finance / family businesses. A couple of people were retired and just found it to be interesting. Also some retired military people in their mid-40s who wanted to transition to some sort of civilian career. I know a lot of other lawyers who quit working the minute they had kids (it was good cover for leaving a job they had long disliked) — it’s a scary high # and they are generally in the closet about having gone to law school at all among other mommies.
Now, with six figures of debt and the salary disparity greater than it was when I finished, I’m not surprised that things are different.
Anonymous
I was one who went to law school with a stated (naive) intent not to practice, and I was not the only one I knew. Of course more than 5 years later I am still practicing…
Lyssa
I’d say the opposite – I knew a lot of people in law school who talked about an intention not to practice. Most or all of them wound up practicing, when they learned that the whole “you can do anything with a law degree” thing was pretty much BS.
Anonymous
Oh, yes, I recall that. And “it’s great training.”
Anonymous
So true. I couldn’t finish the “What can you do with a law degree?” book. About 2/3 of the way in, I knew I didn’t want to do any of the things that you can do with a law degree. It sounded like the same work and responsibility, only with less pay. Ain’t nobody got time fo’ that.
anon
I knew a lot of people who wanted to do some type of work for which a JD could be an advantage- public policy mostly– and that’s what i think people mean by “not practicing.”
My roommate in law school always whined that she hated “law” and never wanted to touch a brief in her life, it was so beneath her talents and ambitions to do to something boring like represent a client, and wanted to “do policy.” Then she wound up clerking for a few federal courts and working in a firm for our first few years after graduation. Heh. Then she went to graduate school again………for public policy.
Even if you’ve got infinite money and free time…. I can’t imagine anyone looking at 3 years of law school as a fun hobby for that time.
Anonymous
Maybe if you’re determined to live in Manhattan it’s different, but in most parts of the US, you don’t have to make lawyer money to have a nice life and retire comfortably at age 65. These “low paying” jobs you’re thinking of aren’t minimum wage. They still put you comfortably in the upper middle class. I would figure out what I want to do, and then figure out how I can make my lifestyle fit the kind of salary I would expect to earn in that career. Staying in a career that makes you miserable until you hit some magic, arbitrary in retirement savings seems kind of crazy. Unless you are talking about being one of those people who retires at 35, you’re going to keep earning money and building your retirement savings even if you’re not earning $200k a year.
KT
I left a job in marketing for a pharmaceutical company where I made six-figures and a bonus equal to most people’s salaries to first work for non-profits, then become a freelancer.
I took a 50% paycut to do it and everyone thought I was crazy. Then I became a freelancer, and they thought I should be hospitalized.
Honestly, it had to be done. My job was bad for me. I was working 80-120 hours a week, I cried all the time, I put on a good 80 lbs, my marriage suffered, it just wasn’t good. I would sob in the parking lot every morning.
After I came home and burst into tears upon opening the door, my husband sat me down and we wrote down a bazillion ways to get out of this. Some were ridiculous, like “become gypsies and live in a yurt”. Others were more sensible, but drastic, like work for a small non-profit and make 50% less. We made it work by cutting expenses and saving. It was hard to keep going to work, but having a goal in mind helped me get out of bed. We saved six months’ worth of expenses and then cut our expenses to the bone so that six months’ fund could stretch further…and I quit and we moved.
I have never regretted it. It was really what I needed. I ended up freelancing on the side for extra income, and eventually began freelancing full-time once I was warning more from my side job than I was from my full-time job. I had never had an unsteady paycheck before, so that took some getting used to, but I had the luxury of a strong emergency fund.
It was crazy, but it was the best thing for me. I am so.much.happier (and healthier!) now.
Anonymous
I replied to the morning career change thread and suggested some books that I worked through.
I have a NW approaching $1M including 1 year living expenses in cash. When I quit my job, I’ll either have to get a roommate or move in with my SO to stretch my savings to cover living expenses, tuition, and cover the gap between licensure and working.
I could leave the job now but it’s not affecting my health as much now that I plan to leave in the next year.
OCI Interviews
The question from this morning reminded me of my own OCI situation. I’m a junior BigLaw associate and was asked to join a junior partner at our law school’s OCI. I’ve never met the partner. We will interview 20+ students over two days. We will interview for all of the firm’s offices so these law students aren’t necessarily applying for the office I’m in. I’ve interviewed SAs at call backs before but this is my first time at OCI. It’s been a few years since I was on the other side of this but I seem to remember the conversations were generally natural and not that substantive. My question is how, if at all, should I prepare? Any sample questions I should ask to get the conversation flowing and/or see whether this person would be a good fit? Things to look for? The partner and I will also do the first round of screening (after Recruiting weeds out by grades) so we’ll have the opportunity to pick the people we will be interviewing to an extent. I’m probably overthinking this but it seems to be somewhat of an honor that I was even picked (there are tons of associates from my law school at the firm). So I want to make sure we find good candidates to bring back.
Maddie Ross
Ask your recruiting coordinator if they have questions or talking points for you. My recruiting department puts these together and provides these to the attorneys in big binders with all the resumes, etc. for the interviews. Likely you won’t need them, but I find them helpful for the first couple of interviews, before you hit your stride, or if the interviewee is really awkward.
Anonymous
Yeah, you’re really overthinking this. You don’t need to prepare. And not to burst your bubble, but I don’t think this is a huge honor. At best, it probably just means someone in recruiting thinks you’re outgoing and friendly, which is nice, but not going to have any impact on your career. At worst, it means your hours are lower than they would like so they’re dumping non-billable stuff on you.
Lorelai Gilmore
It’s not an honor, but it means that someone thinks that you present well – which is always a good thing. So enjoy the affirmation!
I look hard for people who actually might want to practice at my firm. My goal is to weed out people who would never show up or people who are jerks. For example, the person who wants to practice tax law is not going to be a good fit for us. Other than that, I look for smart, well-spoken, articulate, and nice.
TravelBug
Hey!
Anonymous
My contract ends in a month and I still haven’t found another job. I’m so discouraged and terrified about not being able to pay the bills. I’ve been applying to jobs constantly and nothing. Aaaaggghhh.
KT
Deep breaths.
Can you freelance? Consult?
Seriously, list any gigs you can do to pay the bills while you job search–it will help keep you from panicking.
You can Uber. You can grocery shop with Shipt. You can house sit on Care.com. (Obviously not a lasting solution, but little gigs can help bridge the gap!)
emeralds
Good luck. You’re going to get through this. Can you pick up a part-time gig somewhere? Food service, retail?
Baconpancakes
Temp agencies are a pretty good fallback if you just need some money coming in. Saved my butt once. If you’re in DC I can recommend a great women-owned one that was really careful in placement, thorough, and very professional and helpful.
Kitty
rover.com petsitting?
What doctor should I see?
I have had nagging pain behind my right knee for about 2 years. Sometimes it’s worse, sometimes it’s almost-but-not-quite-gone. I went to a physical therapist for a little while who believed that I had a lower hamstring strain. He did some massage and gave me a few exercises, but it never completely resolved the issue. I also tried accupuncture, which also provided some, but not total, relief.
I know that I need to make foam rolling of the surrounding muscles a regular thing (and I’m working on it), but I’m wondering what sort of doctors (or other treatment) I could/should seek out for more opinions. Like, should I try to see an orthopedist? Thanks!
New Tampanian
Orthopaedist
NYNY
Orthopedics is a surgical specialty, so be prepared to be pitched surgery if you go that route.
I used to be a professional dancer, and found that soft tissue injuries were best handled by body workers instead of doctors. If you can swing services not covered by insurance, I’d recommend massage and/or chiropractic for this. Or look for an osteopath, who will approach the issue more holistically.
Anonymous
Ortho or PM&R. But you should have an exam by a doctor who can recommend appropriate therapy. Two years is a long time to deal with knee pain and alternative therapies don’t seem to be working. Good luck!
Divorce Book
Does anyone remember a recommendation for a book about divorce where there wasn’t a specific reason to divorce but it was hard to stay married too? I can’t remember the exact title and Google is failing me.
TIA!
Anonymous
Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay?
Divorce Book
Thanks! Just searched the title you posted on Amazon and that’s it.
Amanda
That is a good one. Another is I Love You, but I’m Not IN Love with You by Andrew Marshall. It talks a lot about saving the marriage, but I’m using it as advice to move on to helping with a future one…
Anonymous
I recommend two books that helped me: The Good Divorce, and For Better or For Worse: Divorce Reconsidered.
Divorce Book
thanks all for the suggestions
definitely not a Southern Baptist
I was raised in the (Southern) Baptist church, but my family stopped going when I was around 11 because of irreconcilable differences with the denomination–my mom thought gay people were people and would not roll with the hateful nonsense our church started spewing. (Good job, Mom.) I’ve gone to the occasional service since then, usually Christmas or Easter with a family member or friend, but recently I’ve started wanting to reconnect with church on my own. I moved to a new city 6ish months ago, and none of my friends here identify as religious or attend a church that I’d be interested in.
However, I have specific, non negotiable criteria and have no idea how to screen for them. Any church that I attend must ordain women, believe in science, support LGBTQ rights, and not preach any of that submissive wife doctrine. I’m assuming this leaves me with Episcopalianism and UU. I don’t have a prior connection to either denomination, although I’ve attended a handful of Episcopalian services. What do I do? Just show up? TIA.
Anonymous
For another option, depending on the congregation, you may like the Methodist Church. They may not be all the way there on LGBTQ stuff, but they are much further ahead then most.
Anon
+1 for Methodist. The current slogan of the denomination is “Open heart. Open doors. Open minds.”
Lorelai Gilmore
But it really depends on which Methodist church. The denomination is in the midst of a huge fight over gay rights – some churches are very pro-gay, pro-gay clergy, pro-gay marriage. Others are vehemently opposed. I can specifically recommend Methodist churches in some major cities that are wonderful and progressive, but it’s not true of every city.
NOLA
Jinx! Just posting the same thing below.
NOLA
I am United Methodist and there are some reconciling churches, but others that are holding fast to the Discipline. It is a huge rift in the UMC right now and pretty disappointing for those of us who want the church to be more accepting. On the good side, there are churches that are voting to be fully inclusive and even some conferences. But the UMC as a whole is way too conservative and probably nothing will change fully until the next General Conference in 2020. That said, welcome to my church home. We have and like everybody.
Anonymous
Your criteria sound awfully similar to mine and I’m very happy in the Methodist church!
CPA Lady
Cradle Episcopalian here.
Yes you just show up. There are usually little information cards in the pews that you can fill out with your info and what you’re interested in and they’ll contact you. And there are also newcomer events, usually in the fall. Summers can be kind of slow, at least in my church, but things pick back up in August/September.
The motto of the Episcopal church is “The Episcopal Church Welcomes You”, and I’ve found churches to be typically warm and welcoming.
anonymous
I may be biased, but Episcopalianism is just lovely. Just show up, hopefully you’ll be welcomed like we were. You may want to hop around to a few different congregations at first, because each local church will have its own personality and you want to find one that fits your needs. But importantly, on a broader level, the denomination meets all of your criteria 100%.
anonymous
p.s. If you happen to be in NYC, I’d be happy to run through some of the “flavors” of the area Episcopalian congregations, to give some ideas for a starting point.
definitely not a Southern Baptist
Not NYC unfortunately.
Whiskeypalian
Option A: just show up
Option B: check out their website and look for anything re newcomers (often there is a formal program, or a way to self-identify). Church staffers (may not be the actual rector) may be avilable to meet up before, answer questions, etc. You can also gauge the tone. You may also find saved sermons and a sense of how the church music is (often services are segregated by music (traditional, instruments with amplifiers, etc.), if that is important to your worship style). Identifying as new as important b/c some churches are huge and no one really knows everyone and you may feel that it is frosty (we are kind of frosty though), but if you identify as new people will be overtly welcoming to you instead of just polite and respecting of your space and privacy.
As befitting our great love of order, you can generally figure out the gospel and OT readings and it would be interesting to see one church’s take on things vs another since they should all be on the same theme each Sunday.
Signed,
was on the church’s website committee at the dawn of the interwebs
Veronica Mars
Episcopalians are great. I have a transgender friend who adores it. Try nondenominational churches as well. It’ll obviously vary from church to church, but depending on your area, you might find and excellent hidden gem. You may have to call and ask to speak to an outreach pastor to get their views on your nonnegotiables (many chose not to list their views on their website). As for showing up, that’s definitely an option, but look on their website for new member information. Or call. They should have dedicated outreach volunteers who can talk to you. Ask specifically about what kinds of events they hold for either new members or people in your demographic (married, single, w/kids, divorced, retired, etc) and ask if there are any events you can drop in and attend (or community outreach events). They should give you a list of things you can do to get started. Going to one of these events can be a good way to get a feel for the congregation.
cbackson
Nondenominational churches drive me crazy because I often feel like they very much try to soft-pedal or hide their doctrinal positions on their websites. Like, do you think I’m going to show up and like the music and the people so much that I’m going to ignore your belief that homos*xuality is a sin and that women shouldn’t work outside the home? Because, erm, I kind of feel VERY STRONGLY about these things.
Anonymous
+1 This has been my experience as well. Episcopalians are very clear about their positions.
Plus Canadian Episcopalians (Anglicans) just approved gay marriage in church – there’s another step in the doctrinal change process that means the marriages can’t happen for three more years but they’re coming in 2019. Hopeful that the American church will head in the same direction.
Betty
Many Episcopal Churches will perform gay marriages and some have for years!
anonymous
Yes, our priest is a married gay man, and several of our vestry members (volunteer lay church leaders) have been married to their same-sex partners in our church.
cbackson
My former priest is now the bishop of New Westminster (otherwise known as Vancouver) and I was following her facebook posts on this with bated breath…when I thought it hadn’t passed, my heart just broke.
Lorelai Gilmore
My experience has been that if it is a Protestant Church and if it is affirming of LGBT rights (including marriage and clergy), the website will say so. Churches that are not affirming will either be silent on the issue or will say something like, “We believe in Biblical marriage.”
Aunt Jamesina
I’ve found this too. Since a few megachurches have cropped up in my area, I’ve noticed so many of them focus on the experiential elements– live bands! pretty lights! baristas! fancy Bible study groups with custom curriculum!, but give no sense of what they actually think (and most of them are pretty conservative). I find it rather shocking that so many people would show up with this lack of emphasis on doctrine. Are they going for bait and switch? I get the feeling that church is more of a social experience than an exploration of faith for a lot of people.
Veronica Mars
Yeah I guess it depends on the church and the area. I’ve found that the lack of transparency is usually churches on both extremes for an area–so both the very conservative and the very liberal have the vague websites.
Betty
Yes! That’s exactly it. I am a cradle Episcopalian and on the vestry of my church, and we call it “church shopping,” which does not have a negative connotation at all but more that you are searching for a church and congregation that fits with your views. Just show up for a service, watch, observe, participate to the extent you are comfortable and see if it is the right place for you. You can also glean a great deal from a church’s website; words like “inclusive community” and “open minded” are telling. Generally, at an Episcopal Church, there will be someone from the vestry (governing body of that congregation) and the priest/rector hanging around to meet new people and answer any questions. You can ask questions, not ask questions or bolt out of the door. All are generally fine.
definitely not a Southern Baptist
Thanks. I can be a little shy so I’m nervous to just show up, but I guess I’ve got to get over that :)
Betty
I so get that. As I said, totally cool to ask questions after or just bolt out the door, even if you think it is the place for you. I have a feeling that if you find a place you like, no one will look askance at trying to get the choreography right, standing awkwardly during the Peace (which I still do, and I know most of the people at each service, but I’m a serious introvert) or hanging/not hanging after the service.
dc
I also grew up in the Southern Baptist church but never became a member, mostly because of their positions on women and because they wouldn’t allow my Methodist mother to take communion. I came to the Episcopal church after college and found it to be a perfect fit — such a relief after lots of years of really missing church but feeling like a square peg. I did some church-shopping and found the local UU congregation to be wonderful, welcoming, and unlike anything I’d been used to before. But the Episcopal church hits all the right notes for me: progressive on social issues, traditional on liturgy, and not at all short on doctrine/orthodoxy. I fumbled through kneeling and congregational responses the first month or two that I was attending, but it doesn’t take long to learn the choreography of the service.
I was baptized by a wonderful woman priest, and my husband and I were married by a man priest whose transgender teenager knows that he is just as loved as any cis kiddo. Sometimes I still get a lump in my throat seeing a woman in the pulpit. These things mean a lot to me. I hope you find the right place for you!
definitely not a Southern Baptist
Thanks! I’ve felt like I was fumbling around every time I’ve been to an Episcopal church, sounds like it’s part of the learning curve. I think I would like the traditional liturgy once I got the hang of it though.
Whiskeypalian
It is the calisthenics: sit, stand, kneel, sit, stand, kneel, shake hands with everyone, sit again, etc.
It *may* be more familiar to people who are catholic. But if you read along in the BCP (book of common prayer), the stage directions in italics (they are often NOT helpful: the congregation may kneel or stand (we have people who do both, which seems odd, but is per the script)).
So: OK not to sit in the front pew. I am always in the back right corner.
cbackson
Episcopalian here! First off, what city are you in? Because there are dioceses of the Episcopal Church that are not in line with the denomination’s overall stance and some churches that are identified as Episcopal may actually be associated with the Anglican Church in America (verrrrry anti-gay) rather than EC USA. Check out Integrity USA’s site, which has a church finder (Integrity is the leading Episcopal LGBT org). I’m straight, but LGBT friendliness was a deal-breaker for me, so I developed expertise in sussing out the secretly non-welcoming congregations.
Then you just show up and follow along to the extent you feel comfortable. If you don’t like kneeling, you can sit when people kneel. It is a highly liturgical experience, which will likely be unfamiliar to you given your background, but I love it. If you are baptized, you are welcome to take communion, which will be offered at the rail, and will be in both kinds (cup and bread). The ushers will direct you when to go up.
Also Presbyterian Churches (PC USA, not PCA) would likely be a good option for you, as would United Methodist churches, but there may be more regional variation in their degree of conservatism. For example, the most prominent PC USA church in my city has female ministers, but is definitely NOT gay-friendly (stopped going there and wrote them a long letter about it when I figured that out!). Also, I believe many (if not all) United Church of Christ congregations are both LGBT affirming and fully open to women (but make sure it’s a UNITED Church of Christ, not a standard Church of Christ…because the Church of Christ is VERY VERY conservative).
Anonymous
Oh goodness, avoid PCA!!! They are basically opposite to each of your stated positions.
LeeB
This is not true. I am a member of a Presbyterian church. We have a female pastor and I was married in the church (I am gay). Like many denominations each local congregation is different. In the last few years the more conservative congregations have left to form a new denomination, called ECO.
cbackson
PCA or PCUSA, though?
Betty
Episcopal churches can vary widely in how they conduct their services: Not all congregations kneel. Not all Episcopalian Churches require baptism in order to participate in communion, and communion can be offered in any number of ways.
cbackson
Well, the canons provide baptism is required to receive communion, and every Episcopal church I’ve attended (including some that were as liberal as you can possibly get) took that position (although it’s not like anyone’s checking…). There was a resolution to extend communion to unbaptized people that were in a state of inquiry, but I don’t remember if it passed or not – do you? That said, I’m generally in the camp of providing more access to Jesus for everyone, and an unbaptized person is no less capable of receiving the grace inherent in communion in my view. I was not baptized until I was 12 and I had my first communion at 9, and it was deeply meaningful to me.
I was mentioning it more so that OP would know that she didn’t have to be Episcopalian to receive.
Anon for this
Question: if I’m baptized but Catholic am I welcome to take communion at an Episcopal church? I hope this doesn’t sound totally ignorant but I just really don’t know and I’m curious.
Anon for this
Got stuck in moderation (ugh) so posting again.
I was baptized but in the Catholic Church. Would I be allowed to partake in communion at an Episcopal church? There might be an obvious answer to this but I have not been involved in church life in quite some time and am just really not sure.
Thanks!
anon99
Happy, converted from Catholicism for many of the reasons you mentioned, Episcopalian.
Yes, you can be baptized anywhere and receive at an Episcopal Church.
Also please feel free to just show up. If anything, its been my experience that most Episcopal churches almost over welcome new comers in an effort to make them feel weekend.
anonymous
100% yes. All baptised Christians can receive communion at Episcopal churches. Including my 3 and 5 year old kids (both baptized Catholic but we switched and couldn’t possibly be happier)
definitely not a Southern Baptist
Could you link me to the Integrity USA church finder? I couldn’t find it on the website.
And thanks for the United Church of Christ link. Hadn’t heard of them but I love everything on the local church’s website.
definitely not a Southern Baptist
I’m in Richmond btw.
Whiskeypalian
I went to a wedding at the church (in Richmond) where Patrick Henry gave the Give Me Liberty speech.
Also, if you have watched The Tudors, Thomas Tallis is one of the court musicians. And his work is still in the hymnal. See: The Tudors = educational.
At any rate, my guess is that if you look around the Fan, you may find a church there that is less west-end-y than Patrick Henry’s.
Anon Former Richmonder
Yes!!! Go to the church Whiskeypalian recommends – it’s in Church Hill. Very lovely.
Episcopalian in Richmond
I used to live in the neighborhood where St. John’s Church (site of Patrick Henrys speech) ‘s located. It’s a smaller congregation but very friendly and open. Not remotely west-endy on a regular Sunday. I’d agree you also might be interested in some of the congregations in the Fan.
cbackson
If you go to their home page, it’s in the right column. There doesn’t seem to be a direct link. Church of the Holy Comforter in Richmond is listed as an affirming congregation.
(There may be others, I think you have to self-nominate to get into the churchfinder.)
Presbyterian
Second the Presbyterian (PCUSA) suggestion. I grew up Southern Baptist, left for similar reasons to the OP’s as a young adult and felt like I had found my people. You don’t have to check your intellect at the door, either.
Anon2
I grew up in the Congregational United Church of Christ and it fits all your criteria!
definitely not a Southern Baptist
It looks really awesome and I hadn’t even heard of it…so glad I posted! It might be at the top of my list for this Sunday.
Meg March
So did I, and I highly recommend. They have a long history of progressivism and activism that I loved.
Blonde Lawyer
Tell me more! I grew up Catholic. I’m leaning more Episcopal now and have attended a few masses. There is a Congregational UCC a 5 minute walk from my house that I am interested in exploring. I’m guessing this would be less formal than Catholic/Episcopal. More fun discussion/music style?
Wildkitten
Yup! The amount of ritual and vibe of the congregation can differ from church to church, so check yours out. Like, my church is actively working to be intentionally diverse and we have more african-american based prayer and music than the UCC church I was raised in. And – we usually only do communion once a month, so don’t be freaked out if you come on a Sunday that doesn’t have communion. We do it, just not as often as the Catholics or Episcopalians.
Libby
I think congregational (UCC) have supported gay marriage for about 10 years, and definitely ordain women. Each congregation of UCC churches tend to be a little different, because the congregation chooses the pastor.
The most important thing to look for is an open and affirming congregation. I’ve been to Methodist, Congregational, Lutheran (ELCA), and Presbyterian churches, and I recommend going to each church and getting a feel for it.
Wildkitten
30 years as a full church body, though individual churches can make their own choices. (ONA and I have the same birth year, so I know this better than the average congregant.)
Greensleeves
If they have a presence in your area, you might also check out the Disciples of Christ (DOC) or the United Church of Christ (UCC). Whether the congregation is open and affirming for LGBTQ may vary a bit from congregation to congregation, as both denominations allow for some level of congregational self-determination. My congregation is open and affirming and my minister has performed a number of same-sex marriages, despite being in a state that is not generally regarded as LGBTQ friendly. Both denominations satisfy your other points. I’ve attended a DOC church for most of my adult life and often describe it as a “thinking person’s church.” I’m not told what to believe, but I am challenged to consider issues carefully and pushed to develop my faith and relationship with Christ. I have also attended a couple of UCC churches and find them to be very similar in approach. This isn’t too surprising, as they are sister denominations. Good luck!
definitely not a Southern Baptist
There’s a DOC right down the street from me and I like the braininess. Adding it to the list. Thanks!
Anonymous
The Evangelical Lutheran Church of America (ELCA) would be another church to explore. I grew up in the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod (which is kind of center-right) and switched to the ELCA as an adult. They ordain women and do not forbid gay marriage. (They leave the determination to marry gay couples up to the individual church.)
lucy stone
The ELCA is definitely worth you checking out. Cradle Catholic married to a much more conservative Lutheran here, but I have a lot of friends who are ELCA and at least in the midwest, they’d meet all your values.
Anonymous
I’ve attended open-minded churches that fit your criteria that were Congregationalist (both Boston metro west and Chicago suburbs). Agree with others that some Methodist churches may also be a good option.
Sarabeth
Presbyterian (PCUSA) might also be a good fit, if you are open to infant baptism. The LGBT stuff varies a bit from congregation to congregation, but is moving in the right direction, and there are definitely congregations that are 100% affirming. My Southern Baptist father has been going to a PCUSA church for 30 years, but won’t officially join because of the infant baptism thing.
aBr
Look for the “wedding” link on the church website. You can normally tell the church’s stance from that. Also, check if the minister has a blog and see if you enjoy the writing.
Iz
I want to jump on the United Church of Christ bandwagon. I’m UCC born and bred (actually, my mother is a UCC minister, and they have been ordaining women for longer than just about anyone.) One thing I love about the UCC is how Congregation-led it is. Your church picks the ministers, determines your social and political outreach activities, makes major financial decisions, etc. An LGBTQ friendly church will announce that it is “open and affirming”.
In my experience, the UCC is as progressive as it gets on just about everything. They also tend to be very involved in interdenominational (and inter-religional, if that is a word) issues and activities. But everyone is right that you have to church shop a bit to find one you love. Make sure there is a presence in your age group, if that matters to you.
Anonymous
Another cradle Episcopalian here. I’m really pleased with the church, and thankful I grew up in the community. The previous Presiding Bishop was an awesome woman and Michael Curry, the new Presiding Bishop, has really impressed me.
Definitely just show up! As a few people mentioned, some churches are slow in the summer, so if something doesn’t feel quite active enough, give it a try again in late Sept.
Definitely shop around for the right fit for you. It’s totally accepted, and it’s better for you and the church to be comfortable. Many churches have enquirers classes.
Episcopal churches tend to be described as “high church” or “low church.” High tends to be more “smells and bells:” Fancier churches, more traditional music (usually), more pageantry, more incense. Low tends to be less fancy, less traditional music (though not always), and definitely less incense.
Good luck! I hope you find a church that works for you!
Enginerd
Raised Catholic, and I appreciate the ritual and tradition of the Catholic Church, but I needed something more universally accepting. I have tinkered with attending a couple different UU congregations in my area, and I have found them to be incredibly warm and welcoming. Generally I looked them up online first, checked out what the upcoming sermons would be, and then just showed up. The welcoming was a bit overwhelming for my style (they wanted me to stand up and introduce myself as a newcomer to the entire congregation) but I appreciated how open they were. It was important to me to attend a service that still felt church-y, if that makes sense. Albeit more casual, the UU services are ritualistic enough to satisfy me.
Anonymous
Some ELCA churches might float your boat, too.
Anonymous
What are your hobbies and why do you like that hobby?
I’m looking for some new hobbies- I tend to pick things up and then lose interest.
Snooozie
kayaking, reading, yoga, French class/group, softball, volleyball, volunteering at the food shelter making sandwiches, rollerblading, swim/bike/run, Frisbee at the park with friends, cooking and baking, family events, lifting/gym, networking activities and happy hours through work, does dating count? I am not super invested in it haha
Goals: make the tshirt quilt that’s been in my hall closet for 15+ years, piano, write something
Nati
I want to be your friend.
But more seriously, I’m moving to a new city in less than a week and looking forward to taking up new hobbies since I will have LOTS of me-time to fill. Your list is all stuff I like.
Anonymous
It’s really kinda old-ladyish but I enjoy cross stitch embroidery. It’s pretty easy (making X’s out of colored string on a fabric with easy to see holes where the needle goes), calming almost to the point of zen (until I figure out I skipped a row in the pattern, at which point it becomes frustrating until I get the relevant stitches ripped out :P ) and really cheap to start with – you can pick up a kit with thread and canvas, as well as a hoop/needles at Hobby Lobby for less than $25 all told. You end up with a pretty piece of art at the end that you can frame, or put on a pillow, make into a wall hanging, etc.
Mpls
+1 to needle work/fabric hobbies. I go in spurts on my cross-stitching, but have finished (and framed!) at least one piece I did myself. I also crochet and have taught myself to knit. I also got into making my own clothes – started with making summer/fun stuff and have moved on into things like pants that I would actually wear to work. It’s a pretty cost-intensive hobby though, as there are always more things to acquire.
Killer Kitten Heels
I recently picked up triathlon – I’ve always liked to run, but tend to lose track of it when I don’t have a specific race marked on the calendar, I think because just running can get monotonous after a while. Triathlon seems to be holding my interest better, because I have to train for 3 separate sports, so I’m doing something different every day.
Also, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with picking up a hobby for a while, and then dropping it and moving on to something else. As long as you’re doing things that are interesting to you, I don’t think there’s any “rule” that you have to have the same hobby/hobbies for ever and always.
Mountain Woman
Roller Derby. Weightlifting. Highly recommend both for stress release and fun.
Anne Elliott
Learning to play the piano in my 40s. I am enjoying it so much. And reading is a lifelong passion.
I have taught my kids to play cards these summer hols:) and we are having fun playing each evening.
Next up: scrabble !!
CountC
Trail running! I love it because I am usually out by myself on the trails, surrounded by beautiful scenery, I get to explore my state by finding new trails to run, I’ve made new friends, races are so much fun and everyone is super friendly.
Painting with acrylics. I like it because I can do it when I want with no pressure. Sometimes I follow YouTube videos and sometimes I don’t. It’s relaxing and with acrylics you can let it dry and if you don’t like it you can paint over it!
Letter writing. I love sending people cards and letters because it’s so fun to get mail and because, while I don’t expect it, I often get a letter back. I also love buying beautiful stationery, fun stamps, and colored wax for my envelope stamp.
Horseback riding. I’ve done it almost all my life. But it’s usually cost prohibitive as a pick-up hobby.
Fostering – is this a hobby? Haha. I foster cats. My fifth foster cat os getting adopted soon! They are fun to have, it saves a life, and I love finding them a person who loves them.
MJ
This cami peeking out of an otherwise conservative suit:
http://www.anntaylor.com/contrast-lace-cami/418192?skuId=21548123&defaultColor=4920&colorExplode=false&catid=cata000010
Yay or nay? I am not buxom, and rarely wear anything that’s lingerie-inspired. Is this too lingerie inspired?
Anon
Nope. This looks like something Cuddy would wear. All the nope. Even under a suit jacket.
MJ
Who is Cuddy?
This would literally only show the top inch–like a triangle. I definitely would not take my jacket off!
Anonymous
The head of the hospital on the show House – she was always dressed a little too sexy.
Jules
Dr. Cuddy dressed a LOT too sexy . . .
Baconpancakes
This would look great with tight black leather pants and gladiator stilettos to the bar. Rawr.
So that’s a no for me.
Shopaholic
I actually think it may be a bit conservative for the bar… but it’s cute! I would probably wear it with jeans (maybe on a Friday at work under a blazer…)?
KT
Depends on your work. Marketing/PR/etc, go crazy, this would be completely lovely and get you compliments
Anonymous
I agree the lace on top (which won’t be covered by the suit) makes it not work appropriate, but I was expecting something much worse based on Anon’s comment. That neckline is waaaaaaaaaay too high for Cuddy! ;)
anon-oh-no
ill be the voice of dissent. I’d wear this under a suit without thinking twice about it. But I have no problem with lace. at all. you’d have to make sure you don’t take off the jacket given the straps, but otherwise, its a-ok.
Anon
This just screams lingerie to me. So nope for most workplaces, I would imagine.
anonymous
I don’t think it’s inappropriate. But it does look outdated (90s) to me, so I’d vote “no” on the basis of style.
Killer Kitten Heels
I don’t think the lace itself is the problem, it’s the contrast that bothers me. Like, subtle lace in the same color as the rest of the shirt is something I’ll wear to work, but the black-lace-on-white-background is the part that makes it too… I don’t know, too something.
Anonymous
I work with a lot of men, who love sports. I wish I could get more involved in their conversations but…I don’t like sports. Is there some kind of cheat sheet or webs*ite that I can use to be sort of up to date on sports? Or a secret to caring about sports? Another way to build my network with these men?
AIMS
I hate sports but I enjoy the ESPN show Pardon the Interruption which is basically just witty banter (actually witty, not ESPN witty!) about the big sports stories of the day. May try that in the back ground when you’re home and see if it does anything for you? Otherwise, I’d just try to find something else to bond over. Game of Thrones, some other show, whatever.
Anonymous
I’ll check out the show- thanks!
Anonymous
Only half kidding, but date a guy who likes sports or a sport/team. I did not go to a D1 school, my dad thinks rowing is the greatest sport ever, and my mom is an artist, but I fell for a guy who eats and sleeps baseball as a hobby. I can talk the basics with the best of them now.
Kitty
ESPN app, set settings to announcements of major news which link to the article. At least keeps you up to date. And subscribe to the local teams. Also, I ask a lot of questions about stuff I do not understand (why would this player transfer? etc.) and they love explaining it. Even though I am like planning dinner for the week and outfits for the week in my head while they tell me. :-D
Bleacher Report has gambling tips and sometimes articles about who is good in a certain match or game or players to watch.
nutella
Don’t let sports scare or overwhelm you. I’ve got a secret- most men aren’t all-knowledgeable about every single sport. They typically just like and follow a couple sports or teams. Are you in a major city? Identify the local teams (either major league or local college) and check out what is going on in with them from time to time. Then there are big news that transcend local coverage like major contracts signed (think of that like celebrity news or business news) or someone hitting a record in something or big events people watch even if they don’t follow the rest of the sport closely like the golf majors, the Superbowl, March Madness, Wimbeldon, etc. These happen often and are very easy to contribute in conversation about. Go to the web for your local paper and you will get more than enough coverage for the big news to know kinda stuff. Also, consider that ESPN has to report on sports news all day every day, so they will report on interesting stories people are talking about at the watercooler (like what happened at the British Open last weekend) as well as cover basic “who won the local baseball game last night.”
M
I’m sitting in a DC starbucks working this afternoon, and enjoying the parade of people- business and tourists, that are arriving through. A young woman (20’s ish) just came in, obviously a staffer, given that she was picking up a large mobile order and wearing a badge around her neck. Her skirt and shirt were both a little tigheter than I’d go for, but I have to admire her chic ouftit- a slim black pencil skirt, patent leather black oxford lace ups (cole haan maybe?) a black choker necklace, and a blue and white stripe oxford shirt that had a front pocket in black/brown leopard print. Has anyone seen a top like this, this summer? I’m hoping it might still be available for purchase!
MH
shoot! total mistake! Kat, can you remove my email from this comment please?
MH
Where is moderation when you need it?!
JayJay
I laughed at this. Totally a move I would make and not get moderated.
anon
Email Kat and ask her to remove it.
kl
I think it’s from Equipment?
Anonymous
PP from below: yep, found it! On sale as part of NAS, no less. But I still think you should get the cat one instead.
http://m.shop.nordstrom.com/s/equipment-leema-pocket-detail-stripe-cotton-shirt/4344226?
MH
That’s it! Unfortunately still waiting on an email response from Kat… what an afternoon!
MH
Thanks, Kat!!
Anonymous
I tried to find this too and was unsuccessful, BUT I did find this one, which is actually the greatest shirt I’ve ever seen.
http://m.shop.nordstrom.com/s/topshop-alexa-cat-embroidered-pocket-shirt-regular-petite/4446958
pugsnbourbon
Oh my god. That is incredible.
anon associate
this is amazing
AIMS
Just wanted to post a recommendation here: I’ve been in the market for a simple maxi dress for a while but it’s been surprisingly hard to find quite what I was looking for. Recently got this navy one from Garnet Hill. It’s on sale now for $44 (which unfortunately means very random sizes are left) but it comes in petite which was perfect for 5’3-ish me, and is very flattering, doesn’t show bra, and was comfy in the heat when I wore it recently. All in all I wish I liked the remaining colors/patterns in my size more b/c I would order another!
Also just had a lovely customer service experience with GH – called to ask if they would waive the return shipping charge for another item in my order that wasn’t as described and they did, and also did a price adjustment on this dress for me. Very happy with the experience so wanted to give them a shout out. FWIW, if you’re between sizes, I’d size down as my experience w/GH is it runs loose.
http://www.garnethill.com/modern-surplice-maxi-dress/sale-clearance/event2/1/348938
NY Native
That’s lovely.
Ally McBeal
Anyone have the Glossier lipstick? I just bought it and love it, but am wearing it at work and something about it feels slightly – unprofessional? – to me. Maybe it’s a brighter color, maybe it’s that it’s smudgier than my normal lipstick? I can’t figure it out. Anybody else have product reviews to share?
Anon
Any advice or words of wisdom/patience when it comes to waiting on an answer following a job interview, especially when you’re not in the legal profession? How long have you found that it typically takes to hear back on a job?
I had an in-person interview earlier on Monday that went well, and the hiring manager told me a few weeks ago that he’d ideally like to get an offer out by the end of July. I haven’t heard from the recruiter or hiring manager yet, and it’s making me anxious even though it’s barely been two days. I’m also currently unemployed, which isn’t helping. My last positions were either offered to me on the spot or there was a motivating factor that forced things to move quickly, so I’m not used to waiting around for a call or email update. I’m continuing to apply for other positions, but I’m farthest along with this firm and it’s a position that I’d really like to get.
Anonymous
I know you’re anxious, but you’re really overthinking this. The interview was two days ago and they said they *hope* to make an offer by the end of the month. Interview timelines often run well behind what they hope to do, and even their goal date for extending an offer is still 10 days away! I’ve worked in several different industries and have never been offered a job on the spot. I’ve generally received formal offers one to four weeks after the last interview, although some times there are positive signs in between the interview and the offer (e.g. a request for references). You just have to sweat it out, and definitely don’t bug them for an update until July is over.
NYNY
The larger the organization, the longer an offer takes. And July is rough, because at least one of the decision-makers is on vacation each day. Keep doing what you’re doing, but tell yourself that “the end of July” means “mid- to late August. ” Feel free to follow up with the hiring manager on August 3rd.
In the meantime, our friend Shots Shots Shots may be around to help…
Nati
Ok, I love her. She wrote an incredibly hilarious response to something I posted during a very trying time. I still laugh about it when it comes to mind.
Shots. Shots. Shots.
In fact, I am. You are unemployed, which is sad, but you just had a great interview and it is summer! Do you want to soak a watermelon in vodka and eat it all? Have you had enough shots with oysters in them? Do you need to do some more daydrinking while watching Gilmore Girls reruns? You cannot rely on me daily for your job search anxiety but I am there for your one night stand shake it off needs.
Anon
Thank you for this! I think I’m going to go with option C and partake in some daydrinking with Gilmore Girls reruns for today.
Baconpancakes
Shots, I love your healthy approach to getting blitzed. You are a valuable member of this forum.
Wildkitten
+1
Nati
I was just offered a government job last month and interviewed quite a bit before landing what I wanted.
All I can say is, it almost always takes longer than they say/think it will. Two days is absolutely nothing! But I know the agony of waiting. Sending good vibes.
Anon
Has anyone had their friends get awkward when you start dating someone more seriously?
My relationship with my boyfriend of 6 or so months has gotten more serious lately- meaning we are talking about long term things, etc. No decisions, just discussion that how we would like to see things end up if it goes well. I feel like a few of my friends have sort of distanced themselves from me- they don’t ask about him anymore (not that I particularly care, nor do I bring it up unless there is a reason to), and they don’t really talk to me much anymore. Most of these friends have been single for awhile (like I have been, so I have Been There and Get It) and I know someone might roll their eyes over this, but could it be jealousy? I’m upset that I have seemingly lost friendships over this. I am no less available for dinner dates with these friends than I was before, I tried to message them as frequently as before, I know I haven’t turned into this relationship monster that we all know about. I just wonder if it’s a “wow she finally met someone that seems cool and ouch I can’t deal so I will go find new single friends to be single with.
If that’s the case, isn’t it a bit sad that people really are just about themselves- when my coupled friends met guys and got married, I didn’t resent them- I mean, that is what I wanted too, but I didn’t see it as an equation where their happiness meant there was less happiness in the world for me too.
Is this what is happening or am I missing something?
Anonymous
I think you’re making too much of this. How do these friends even know you’re getting serious? The fact that you are jumping to jealousy makes me think you’re giving off a more smugcoupled vibe than you realize.
Anon
I guess they don’t know we are serious. Some people have asked and I have said what we’ve discussed but yah they do not know.
January
Well, I think you’re probably projecting a bit.
Are you really just as available for dinner dates as you were before? I have a friend who used to be my go-to for dinner on Saturday nights, when we would catch up and complain about our dating lives (or lack thereof). She eventually got into a serious relationship, and the other single friend who used to have dinner with us moved away, and my relationship with the first friend got more distant. I’m still regularly invited to go to dinner with her and her boyfriend (and usually another couple), and I do accept those invitations, but it’s not really the same. It doesn’t help (me) that I’m the only single one left in that friend group.
Am I jealous that she’s settled down and I’m not? Sure (though I think envious might be the better word). But a lot of friendships are based on shared life circumstances. It doesn’t mean that either you or your friends are horribly self-involved.
Anon
I think that’s the issue- we don’t have a ‘shared life experience’ anymore. We can’t complain about bad dates together anymore, so it’s made it sort of awkward. I guess it just makes me sad to think most friendships are only based on shared experiences (common interests, common life situations), but that is probably just how it is.
January
That is indeed how it is. You probably have high school or college friends that you stayed close with and other friends from school that you were totally friendly with at the time, but you haven’t talked in years.
There’s a saying: there are friends for a reason, for a season, or for a lifetime. Maybe some of these friends were for a season. There’s nothing stopping you from reaching out to these friends individually to hang out, though, if you miss them. Maybe you can listen to their bad dating stories without offering advice (because that’s kind of the worst, honestly).
Anonymous
Are bad dates the only thing you had in common with these friends? What about other non-relationship related interests?
Emmer
Could it be jealousy? Maybe. But in my experience, probably not. I usually stop talking about someone’s SO with them if I don’t like SO or I think they’re too obsessed and I’m sick of hearing about SO. Maybe check how often you’re talking about him and in what context – there’s a big difference between “SO and I saw Ghostbusters last night, it was so funny,” and “SO bought me tickets to Ghostbusters, isn’t he just the most thoughtful, I love him so much and I think we’re going to get married.” For example. (FWIW I feel this way and I haven’t been single in 8 years).
Anon
I most definitely don’t talk like that. It would gross me out even just typing those words!
As an aside, it’s really only a couple of people I am thinking that are doing this, definitely not the majority of my friends. The rest of my friendships are the same and some have actually enjoyed making our hangouts into couple dates instead.
newbinlaw
Yeah, TBH I almost thought you could be a friend I have because you are describing our situation exactly — except I’m not single. In fact, I’m engaged. So trust me, it is not jealousy. It’s the fact that she (& they) are super obnoxious, she doesn’t actually make time for me anymore but fakes like she tries, is a total hypocrite because she was a super mopey sad single person for a long time that never wanted to hear about or see your relationship, etc.
I would look inward, or even better, make a bigger effort and even talk to her about her changed behavior. Nothing reinforces my feelings about my friend more than the fact that she doesn’t appear to have noticed or to care that our friendship has completely dropped off — to busy with her new man I guess. :/
Mindy
+1. Yup. I have a friend who is only available for day time hangouts and only after SO goes to work and before he comes home and she’s flaked on all of her friends on the weekends/evenings to hang out with SO’s family/family obligations/friends who all must be trust fund adults because they don’t seem to have a real job well into their 30s.
He’s annoying and weird and she prioritizes time with him and then wonders why ppl aren’t hanging out with her during her limited “free time” away from him and it’s like, well, we have day jobs.
Quark
Senior Attorney Rule of Life No. 7. Presume good intentions.
It’s unfair to automatically assume that your friends are just jealous instead of, idk, talking to them. Make sure they feel like you’re still making time for them like you think you are. That you’re not dominating the conversation with heart eyes emoji talk.
Anon
That is a good point: presume good intentions.
I find it funny that I have been accused of being all googly when I specifically said I rarely talk about him. I guess people can assume I am wrong and maybe I am talking about him more than I think, but I am very certain I don’t – it makes me uncomfortable to talk about it so I know I am not. I also feel like after reading threads on this site any discussion of boyfriends beyond “oh yah I saw that movie last night with SO” comes across to some people are too much so I don’t get into details beyond that. I mean, I really like him, but I am not a die-hard romantic.
Anonymous
Single with friends in various stages of relationships. I find that after the first few months, I stop asking my friends how it is going in the relationship unless they bring it up. I mean if I was asking about it it would almost be presuming that there was something that was wrong.
I also might assume that you’re doing things with your boyfriend now on Friday nights, and might not think to invite you every time. So, I wouldn’t jump to conclusions you’re jumping to about jealousy, there can be a lot of other things that are producing this behavior.
AnonforThis
Just want an interview outfit gut-check.
I have always worked in finance, but am interviewing for a job in the music industry. Not a lawyer (tech). The recruiter actually mentioned twice that their dress code is “casual.” So, no suit, right? I have always worn a suit, but really don’t want to seem tone deaf. The job would be a big step in my career (no direct reports to three, etc) and I am in my mid-20s. I want to seem a little older and very put together.
I am thinking:
1. More conservative: Black sheath dress with a non-matching black blazer that doesn’t look like I’m trying to make a suit out of separates (heavily textured jacket). And some kind of bold necklace.
2. Less conservative: Very dark plum sheath dress with non-matching gray jacket. One of the tiny line colors has very subtle hint of the same purple in the dress.
Or should I just wear a suit? (And buy a new suit because all of a sudden all of my suits are waaay too big – groan/yay!)
Senior Attorney
I’d say the second. Or something much less formal like great pants with non-matching jacket.
Definitely not a suit.
newbinlaw
I vote for #2! The recruiter mentioned that for a reason. and some sheath + jacket combos are even court appropriate, so it is really just color that you are playing with here.
Anon
Dress! Leaning towards option 2 :)
Killer Kitten Heels
Option 2, for sure.
GirlFriday
Resist the temptation to wear a suit! I vote for #2 as well (bonus points if you can add in the chunky necklace). This is anecdata and obviously you need to know your audience, but I used to work in a casual office, and my boss would actually dock points from interviewees who were specifically told by recruiters that our office is “very casual” and still showed up in suits! It’s awkward and is a big indicator that you can’t follow instructions /pay attention to detail/pick up on subtle cues.
ChiLaw
Does the all black outfit read at all edgy (moto styling on the jacket or anything)? Because that does sound potentially pretty cool. I think they’re both good choices!
Anonymous
I have friends in finance in the music and entertainment industry. My suggestion would be casual but also hip. If you had a black blazer with zipper details and black stilettos to throw on with the purple sheath, that would fit right in. Style and personality are a plus in the way you dress.
Anonymous
Former music industry here–depends on what kind of music/role. DEFINITELY no suit. Either option is fine. I would lean toward edgy black pieces with interesting jewelry. Wear some cool shoes (colorful, or black with some interesting detail or shape, or something trendy–block heels high or low, booties, etc.) and do something slightly though not too interesting with your makeup/nails/etc.
Kk
Definitely wear a dress and jacket- I love the idea of the necklace too. If it was me, I’d roll up the sleeves of the jacket and I’d also wear flats (pointy or almond) instead of heels. And a big smile!
Wildkitten
What boots (for casual work days) should I get from the NAS?
Breezy bottoms
I bought 4 linen tops to rotate as a summer capsule wardrobe for what seems to be the hottest summer in years here. I am very happy with how they look and fit my business casual office.
My concern now is what to wear as bottoms. I already wore “the skirt” with one of the shirts, and some patterned ankle pants but was still uncomfortably hot (I have to get in and out of my office building often).
While I got away with linen tops, I don’t think I can use the same material for bottoms (too wrinkly ?).
Any suggestions? I have even stopped wearing my ponte dresses because the lining on them is synthetic.
Petite size 4P in bottoms and quite curvy so I like skater, A-line or fit and flare dresses etc.