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Updated: Feb 6, 2023 157 Comments · by

Open Thread: What Makes Outfits Look Dated?

Fashion· Fashion Gaffes· Tailoring· Trends |

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power shouldersWhat makes outfits look dated? If you invest in a good working wardrobe, the idea is that it should last you for a long time — and it's disappointing when they immediately signify to other women “I bought this 5 years ago.” So I thought a fun topic for discussion would be thus: what dates outfits? What are some of the worst offenders you've seen?  (Pictured: Man – check those shoulder pads!, originally uploaded to Flickr by wbaiv.)

Making my own list has proved more troublesome than I thought it would be. For my $.02, though:

– overly trendy things (such as the exposed zippers that are all the rage right now but will immediately date an outfit to the 2010-2011 time period, unless they stay in fashion
– cyclical fashions — for example right now a rounded toe is more popular, but pointy toes will come back into fashion eventually
– colors that no longer look good on you — for example, very bright colors tend to look best on younger women
– Anything you didn't see 5 years ago (e.g., the shootie) is likely to date itself

Here's another fun question: how can a woman buy quality pieces without buying the most boring things in the store? And how do you stay up to date on the latest silhouettes without becoming a slave to fashion? Ladies, when was the first time you realized you were wearing something that you should have retired a while ago?

About Kat

Kat Griffin is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of Corporette. You can read more about her here.

Comments

  1. ks

    Extreme skirt length (either up or down), shoulderpads (although I notice they are starting to come back) are the first two things I think of. I’m guessing the ruffles and frou-frou necklines on blouses and jackets that have been all the rage for the last year or two will scream “dated” in a couple years when the pendulum swings back to more streamlined styles……

  2. C2

    Well, it was on these very cyber-pages that I realized some people read my wearing black with a single bright color as dated. I’ve come to agree and now think it myself when I see it on someone else, but I NEVER would have put my finger on it on my own.

    And as someone with duck feet, i.e. much wider forefoot than heel, you’re striking a nerve with the round-toe-pumps-shall-one-day-be-outdated prediction: I disagree! If it’s wrong to opt for shoes that do not create a vertical toe-pile, I don’t want to be right.

    • Anne-on

      This is the reason I like a lot of Ann Taylor’s shoes – they do the “almond” toe very well. Its a good cross between super round and super pointy.

      • Fishie

        I must have missed that discussion, because I do black pants/skirt with a colored top pretty much every day of my life. Seriously, that’s my uniform for a professional-but-not-suit office setting every day. Black pants/skirt, top (usually knit) in purple, red, blue, gray, beige, off-white, and cardigan in beige, blue, black, or gray. Am I a hopeless fashion dweebette?

        • Eponine

          The particularly dated look is black bottoms, black blazer or cardigan, and colorful top underneath. Your outfit doesn’t sound particularly groundbreaking, but it doesn’t sound dated unless the cut and style of your cardigan is out of date.

          • govt lawyer

            I do that exact outfit that you’re talking about and do not think I look dated in the least. My pants/tops/cardigans have all been purchased from Ann Taylor/Jcrew/Banana-type stores in the last 2-3 years and I have winter coloring: black and bright bold colors look great on me.

            I don’t think this looks dated in the least, even if it’s black pants, black pumps, bright red (with blue undertones) top and black blazer/cardigan (though if I wore this outfit with matching red shoes I think it would be a different answer).

          • anon-oh-no

            I dont mind black with a colored top in general, though i think that usually breaking it up with a bit of white or some other color goes a long way towards making the look more modern. A contrasting colored shoe, a white cami peeking out of the top, a multi colored scarf, or a big chunky or long neckless . . .

            However, the similar look I find particularly dated (and juvinile) is the bannana republic (or other similar store) colored button-down.

          • MelD

            I don’t find the bright under black dated in every occasion either. I don’t really look that great in pastels, so I tend to wear jewel tones. I do find the look ah-oh-no mentioned to be rather dated, especially when paired under a black blazer/suit jacket with the collar out. That’s one look that I find to be really dated, although I still see it regularly on TV. I think if you have to wear the bright button front shirt under a jacket, it looks much better with the collar in.

          • Eponine

            I’m just repeating the conclusion of the hive mind when we discussed the topic a while back – not necessarily my own opinion, but apparently what many people are thinking if you wear this look.

        • anon

          I thought it was the bright blazer (think royal blue) with black top and pants that was a no-no? I had that exact outfit and quit wearing it after reading here one day. But I think it’s okay with a white top, instead of black? Maybe not, it’s hard to keep up!

          • Fishie

            Phew! I was getting worried that I thought I looked awesome but really was a frumpster, although I can see where folks are coming from when they say that the all black with a bright looks dated. Admittedly, I don’t do a ton of brights, and usually more with gray than with black. I also agree with eponine’s statement about the cuts and styles of clothes making a difference as to what looks dated. Now that I see cascade, wrap, and boyfriend cardigans everywhere, my crewneck cardigans look a little old to me. I have gone completely wild this year, too, and added a brown belt and brown shoes (sort of a cognac color) to “brighten” my black-based wardrobe. I thought it added a little something different.
            I have to say though, I get a lot of compliments on my clothes and the way I dress in general, so I guess I can’t be too far off (unless everyone around me is Regina George)! I often wear “statement” jewelry that, in my opinion, can really change the whole look of an outfit, so maybe that helps bring some of my looks up to date.

            Thanks, everyone!

    • Sutemi

      Trinny and Susannah on the BBC What Not to Wear would say that black cheapens a bright color. I like to wear patterns and neutral colors with black but not, for example, royal blue and black or bright pink and black. Taupe and black is one of my favorite combinations.

  3. KL

    With a few trendy exceptions, I buy and wear what I love. I’ve been wearing an Indian wrap maxi skirt for years, even though I’m only 5’2″ and not otherwise a fan of the maxi trend. I will never wear bodycon dresses or exposed zippers because they are just not attractive to my eye. Same goes for pointy-toed shoes and ponchos, even though those are currently out of fashion.

    I wouldn’t describe my style as classic, at all–more like feminine and quirky.

    That said, I did recently buy a $10 maxi dress on sale at H&M because it was almost short enough for me. Trying to figure out how to style it, and I doubt I’ll wear it much–but that’s about how much awkward trends are worth.

    • Kanye East

      The “rule” (that most people don’t seem to follow) is that velvet is worn only between Thanksgiving and Valentine’s Day.

      Velour, on the other hand. . . well, I . . . don’t know.

    • Nonny

      I have black velour track pants that are uber-comfy and that I wear around the house or to the grocery store. They are not generally fit for view, but I wouldn’t give them up for anything.

  5. CMR

    Double-breasted jackets – look very dated to me. Styles which are somewhat oddly porportioned, like baby-doll dresses, can look dated. I also think make-up and hairstyles can also have a huge impact on whether someone’s appearance looks dated. I look at pictures of celebrities from the ’90’s when overplucked eyebrows and dark wine-colored lipstick was the rage and it looks so dated to me.

    Regarding your question about quality, I tend to think of that as a brand issue rather than a style issue.

    • b23

      I totally agree regarding the makeup and hairstyles. On What Not to Wear, for example, the clothing makeovers can only do so much — the people don’t look really great until they visit Carmandie and Nick. :)

    • AIMS

      Double breasted jackets are actually coming back, so I wouldn’t say they look dated across the board. But a double breasted jacket from 15 years ago probably will because proportions get tweaked when something comes back around and it’s rare to hit the nail on the head with something “vintage,” especially in a work context. Same goes with dark wine lipstick, I would say (did anyone see how gorgeous [and grown up] Hermione Granger looks on the latest Vogue cover?!)

      I do think that, in that sense, the “if you were around to wear it the first time, proceed with caution” rule applies in such circumstances.

      • Ms. Basil E. Frankweiler

        Yes, I remember when Emma Watson first cut her hair, I was so disapoointed, but it ultimately did so much to separate her from her Harry Potter persona. I still wish it were a bit longer, but that’s a personal preference.

    • anonymous

      Double-breasted jackets can look good on some women, especially women whose figures read as pear-shaped or too thin.

      Baby Doll dresses are just a short form of the Empire waist. Lawyers generally wouldn’t be wearing Baby Dolls at work anyway.

      Hair and makeup are very important; a change can be very disconcerting the older we get.

  6. KLN

    fun topic. the most obvious offenders are overtly trendy pieces and details, of course (as Kat mentions above).

    I actually think a more serious problem with looking “dated” falls not along fashion lines but along age and personal chronology lines .. for example, clothes that worked when you were 25 but not 30, when you were an associate but not a director, or when you were, say 125 lbs but not 135 (or vice versa!). Ideally, the core of a good working wardrobe will carry you through multiple stages of age and advancement (and maybe some extra lbs?)

    Ways to build a high-quality but interesting wardrobe: optimize for
    1) fit over fashion. if it really fits beautifully, that probably trumps a lot of trend elements. find a good tailor.
    2) texture and material over color. IN GENERAL, seek out clothes made from higher quality and more interesting fabrics – sturdier materials, subtle patterns in the weave, textures that may not be discernible from far away but are very nice or even luxurious from closer up. the colors are often more neutral, so that may seem boring at first glance, but that helps keep the focus on the pattern and texture of the material. I think this stuff is beautiful, very interesting, and classic to boot.

    I find that cheaper (not cheap, but cheaper) clothes come in more ordinary fabrics, and so distinguish themselves by color or pattern instead. Which is fine, but this definitely falls more in the trend category than the classic category.

    anyway my two cents.

  7. b23

    I think you should splurge on things that are simple and classic – a black pencil skirt, for example. Even if the styles of skirts change, a black pencil skirt will always be at least somewhat in fashion, and will be very fashionable again within a few years. Also pointy toe shoes. Even if they are not currently totally in style, I wouldn’t be taken aback by seeing someone wearing them, and they will come back in a few years. Buy a good pair of basic black pointy toe shoes and hang onto them! Same with round toes.

    I also think it’s kind of crazy when people say things will look dated within a couple of years. None of my friends switch fashions that quickly, and I like to think I run around with some pretty fashionable people. For example, maxi dresses are something people might have thrown into that flash in the pan category when they first hit the scene, but it has actually already been about three years since they came out, and they are hotter now than ever. If you bought a maxi dress when they first became popular, my guess is you could get *at least* five years’ wear out of it without it looking dated. So I think it’s pretty rare when something appears and disappears within a couple of years. Something like the exposed zipper might be a different story – I’m not sure – but I think it is definitely more the exception than the norm even for very trendy items.

    • b23

      I just realized Kat said five years throughout her post, so this was actually more in response to a poster above.

    • Mila K

      Agree with the point about embracing a trend when it first comes out. It holds true even as far as exposed zippers go – I was shopping the sales in the fall of 2007 and decided against a dress with an exposed zipper for the exact same reason – I didn’t want it to look dated too soon.

  8. kellyn

    I try to buy something with one minor “trendy” detail so that the whole piece doesn’t look dated, and when that trend is on its way out, I can pull the focus to another part of the outfit. The suits with the side-only hem ruffles, tulip seaming, three quarter sleeve jackets and cartoonish lapels terrify me– pick one detail and keep it simple aside from that. That way, you can look current but classic, which says a lot about how you are as a worker, I think (ie you can follow the rules but be creative in measure).

    I tend to loosen up a classic or conservative suit or look with costume jewelry from places like Forever 21 or Francesca’s, or a conservatively shaped shoe in a more fun color, print or texture, or a cheap blouse from HM or TJ that is trendy.

  9. Selia

    A tailor that I use told me that if you buy a quality item, it fits well, and the styling looks good on you, it will always be in style for you. We’ll see how that works out, since she said that after having shortened a few of my jackets’ sleeve lengths to 3/4! (Truth be told, I have long arms and those couple jackets were simply too short for my long arms!)

  11. anonymous

    I disagree with the bright colors assessment. Some of us just look better in brighter colors. My coloring totally rules out all pastels (makes me look sickly) and most muted colors (I look drab). I put a brighter teal, blue, or green on and I look healthy and like I’ve slept 8 hours when I haven’t.

    Some people might hate me for this but one thing I do think looks dated are twin sets. It’s probably one of the only pieces of clothing that I will actually make a judgment about someone for wearing (and I tend to have an open mind) Some people love them but the look just says unfashionable to me. It looks like a costume of what an adult “should” wear and just doesn’t seem modern to me AT ALL.

    • Anonymous

      Unless you’re in the south or the midwest… here, classic really means classic… pearls, monograms, cardis, etc., for young and old, tirelessly…

      • ADL

        Total agree with this poster. In the south, twinsets, pearls, and monograms will always be in style, no matter the time or the season.

        • anonymous

          I guess there’s a difference there but to me pearls and monograms are classic and are seen in many regions as such. You could see a beautifully dressed woman in NYC in pearls as easy as in Birmingham.

          Twinsets just look like old lady clothes. They age everyone who wears them and they don’t fall into the “classic” category to me like say khaki colored chinos would or a monogrammed bag or any plethora of other wonderfully southern clothing options. If it makes any difference I grew up in the south and am of the opinion that just because a lot of people do something doesn’t make it classic. There are a lot of things that are great that people wear in the south (I think Sperrys on a guy is a FANTASTIC look) but twinsets just aren’t one of them in my opinion.

          • AIMS

            I agree on twinsets — to me, they look less “classic” and more “stepford wife-ish.” But, let me be the first to admit, that a) some people already have this look down pat and it does work for them somehow, and b) my opinion is largely colored by the many people I see try this look who – to me and my subjective eye – just don’t really pull it off, leaving a “that looks off” impression. I think that’s how it works with most styles — a large part of what we perceive to be in is, fairly or not, who is wearing it around us.

            Also, just wanted to chime in re: color. Agree that neon pink is usually best on the younger set, but I think older women can look phenomenal in really bright colors and, in fact, many bright colors work better as you age. Just check out Hillary Clinton and her rotating color-wheel of pant suits!

          • Anonymous

            Totally hear you. The thing with twinsets in south & midwest is, it’s not a temporal style or fashion choice one is trying to pull off. It just, is. One doesn’t wear them to be stylish or to be anything. It’s not a choice-y look intention deal. It’s just part of the toolkit. The whole girls dressing the same at 10 as at 60 toolkit. It is timeless not in the sense of superiority or never-getting-old or always-looking-great, but in the sense of constancy. In the sense of.. here is a great soouthern phrase… “the done thing.”

          • AN

            Though twinsets would be a great way to try the very ‘now’ colour block trend:)

            PS – I hate twinsets and never look good in them….

        • Kim

          I feel the need to chime in. I think the basic elements of a twin set are very classic and should be part of everyone’s wardrobe. But what looks really dated right now is wearing them together in the same colour. If you were to break up the set and contrast the colour of your layers it would look far more modern. Like anything, sometimes too many classic pieces in one outfit is too much and will make you look a little like a Stepford wife. Everything in moderation ladies!

    • AN

      Thanks! I’m caramel skinned and a lot of colours wash me out. I look great in jewel colours and icy pastels and I wear them with black/grey/navy bottoms.

      Also, I don’t see why I should have to give up brighter hues that make me come alive as long as the cut is classic. Think BBros buttonfront shirt in a vivid blue or whatever.

      Also, I never notice people’s heels – whether round toed/pointy – but then I stick to classic almond toed heels myself:)

      • ML

        It is funny to hear how so many people look good in jewel tones but not pastels. I am just the opposite! And I do envy the ability to wear jewel-tones.

        • Kathryn Fenner

          I think jewel tones look better on dark-haired people, and pastels on lighter-haired people, and there are more dark haired people than light haired ones, even in Scandinavia!

  12. Bonnie

    I buy quite a few trendy pieces that I incorporate with classic pieces. For example, a ruffle shirt to wear with a a classic black suit. My thought with trendy pieces is that I will get limited wear out of them so I limit how much money I spend on them.

  13. btsbsc

    threadjack:
    going to a partner’s house for dinner/bbq as a plus one – any recs on what to wear? i was thinking sundress or nice bermudas and a top but i would really love some links to actual pieces or outfits as i am horrible at putting items together.
    TIA

  14. Jennifer

    Anything that is immediately identifiable with a particular brand, such as the Coach purses covered in monograms, the Ed hardy tattooed clothing, the Polo shirts with a GIANT embroidered horse across the chest, Ugg boots, etc. are all things that come and go very quickly. Even if the brand itself is well known and classic, such obvious advertising is typically something that younger people are attracted to. (I assume younger people because they tend to be more insecure about making their own fashion choices, and thus more likely to advertise a fashionable brand instead of real fashion. But I am young too, so take my generalization with a grain of salt.

    • Chicago K

      I have to slightly diagree. Polo shirts have been considered “classic” since the 1970s or 1980’s at least. Same with COACH. Now, Ugs are a different story…first off, HIDEOUS, second off trendy, and please please PLEASE people STOP WEARING THEM IN THE FREAKIN SUMMER!!!! I understand you bought super expensive snow boots and may no longer have any money to buy additional shoes, but you can get flip flops for a dollar at Walgreens. Seriously, your feet will thank you – Ugs are not summer shoes unless it continues to snow where you live!!!

  15. caesia

    I think you can give yourself more longevity by buying conservative implementations of trends. For me, it seems easy to control that based on where you buy it from (I’m sure there are other ways to do this as well). So instead of buying a trendy piece from H&M, I’ll wait until it makes to a place like Lands End. I don’t really shop at places like that for basics since they can be too conservative, but a ruffled sweater or pair of skinny jeans tend to be interpreted well there, in terms of cut (not too edgy) at decent quality.

  16. AIMS

    Things that look dated to me:

    Certain colors and/or color combinations – e.g., I am sure the current craze for orange will make that color look dated before long. Men in pink dress shirts = 5 years ago. Men in dark gray, dark blue, or burgundy dress shirts = 10-15 years ago. Brown and mustard yellow will always scream 70s to me, light gray and light pink will always be 80s; and (I don’t care if it’s trendy now) black and cobalt blue or bright red equal 1993 as far as I am concerned.

    Also, square toed boots with big chunky heels. If those ever come back (and they probably will), I only pray it’s a modified version. On an aside, I think pointy toe will be back but not the crazy witch-pointy iteration of recent years.

    Certain collars – like the super pointy lapels on certain suits and dress shirts.

    Harsh eyeliner, too much lip liner, and frosted hair. DJ Tanner bangs (that should go without saying, and yet I have seen that look too often not to say it).

    Curious to see what everyone else says! Great topic!

    • MelD

      Really? I think pastel dress shirts are always in style in more tropical locations as it’s part of the tropical look. I think that’s the same with women’s look too- those who say that jewel tones are outdated clearly don’t live in places where people embrace bright color year round.

      • AIMS

        I don’t disagree that geography plays a big role. Certainly a white linen suit on a guy looks different if he is in Bermuda vs. on Wall St.

        I also wouldn’t even lump all pink shirts into one category, but there was a whole movement for a while of “real men wear pink” and, to me, on too many men (not all, but certainly much of the under -55 set) it looks too much like something “of that time,” at least when worn in NYC on my morning subway ride . . . . maybe the feel of the look in Miami would communicate a totally different vibe. And I wouldn’t lump pink in with all pastels, in general. I also think some shades of pink are better than others, as far as this all goes . . . so take my opinion for just what it is — my opinion :)

    • Diana Barry

      I agree with all of this. Those chunky heeled shoes look terrible to me now (look at Ally McBeal!).

      Proportion is a big one. Big shoulders = 80s. Long jacket/short skirt, or slipdresses = early 90s. Etc. Bootcut pants v wide leg v straight v skinny – all tied to certain eras. Ditto on the collar shape. Length of tops, too – my short t-shirts from 7 years ago I had to get rid of bc they don’t meet the waist of any of my pants!

      If you are buying anything with particularly exaggerated proportions, be prepared for it to look dated. I find the things that age the best are those that are halfway between silhouettes: e.g. pants that are neither bootcut, nor wide, nor straight, lapels not too wide or too narrow, jackets not too long or too short.

      Even details come and go – remember the “poet shirt” of the early 90s with huge ruffled collar and cuffs, and/or big sleeves? I had several of those when I was in school. Then when ruffles came back, they came back in a different way – on collar and down the front of the shirt. And next time they will probably be only on the sleeves, or something. :)

      I find skirts that are knee-length to look good, no matter whether the trend is toward mini or maxi.

    • Gatorette

      For some of us (Florida Gator fans especially) orange will always be in :)

      Not to mention I think most people look great in orange, especially brunettes!

        • Gatorette

          Great to see another Gator Professional on here!

          My BF didn’t go to UF (he’s from a west coast school) but he has quickly become a big fan. It never ceases to amaze him how often we’ll be out in LA, NY, even Paris and randomly hear someone yell “Go Gators!” in response to my Gator gear.

          School pride is always in and fashion rules just do not apply to alumni colors imho.

    • b23

      I agree generally, but there are always exceptions. For example, my husband just bought a burgundy shirt at a very fashionable store, and it’s great. It has great contrast stitching, fits really well, etc. So I think a lot of burgundy shirts would look dated, but not necessarily all of them. Same with pink shirts.

      • b23

        And, to echo Gatorette, maroon is the color of my alma mater (as well as my husband’s), so that makes the shirt even more attractive.

    • src

      Hah! I have a bright orange dress that my mother wore ni the mid-1970s. It looks great now, but I’m amazed it wasn’t thrown away in the intervening four decades.

  17. AccountingNerd

    Anybody else have post-vacation depression today? My husband and I spent the weekend at a bed and breakfast on the water for our one year anniversary. Beach, wine, sleeping in, fancy dinners….I did not want to leave. But it’s back to reality today. :(

    • AIMS

      At least we have the holiday weekend coming up :)
      PS: That sounds like a fantastic way to spend your weekend.

    • Anonymous

      I hear you! I just got back from two weeks of sailing. Reality is so demanding!

    • Anonymous Poser

      Yes! I’m no longer waking up thinking, “I’m not waking up at the beach! Something’s not right, here…”, but I’m still missing the ocean breezes every time I step foot outside.

      Sounds like a great anniversary celebration, by the way… :-)

  18. Glomarization, Esq.

    One strategy I use is to take the little envelope with a suit’s spare buttons, write the year the suit was made, and use a twist-tie to attach the envelope to the suit hanger. That way, I can take a serious look at a suit I bought 5 years ago and ask myself critically, Is this suit looking dated? How do the shoulders look? Have I lost (ha) any weight since then? Have the cuffs gotten to be too shabby to wear any more? How does the pant leg style compare to what’s in the most recent catalogs?

    I find that one way to make a suit last longer in the style department is to find one that exploits the latest trend in details or embellishments or styling, but doesn’t go very far in emphasizing the trend. Shoulderpads are coming back? I’m not a fan, but maybe my next suit will have shoulderpads that are slightly outside of my comfort zone, in the hope that I’ll ride out the trend but still be able to wear the suit a few years after it ends.

    • Duckie

      I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that I don’t think your website link goes to the page you intended.

      • Sanz

        Aw, it’s just a parked page. Your comment made it sound like it was something fantastically awful ;-)

        • Duckie

          Oh – it looked like a scammer page to me when I clicked on it, but maybe I didn’t look hard enough. I guess it definitely wasn’t what the commenter intended, then.

  19. Anonymous

    Monica shoes!
    Just don’t wear anything you wore when you were… whatever, whenever, in the past.
    (When you were a young lawyer and Ally McBeal wore Monica shoes.)
    There is no buy now, where forever thing.
    But you can find who you are and be her forever, and dress her appropriately for when you are… in the future.

  20. ML

    I don’t have anything to add, but I just wanted to say I’m surprised at all these comments about pointy toed shoes. I’m fairly young (late 20s) and (I hope) somewhat fashionable. I’ve been wearing pointy heels for years and I while I own a few round and almond toes, I stand by my pointy heels. I think they look better on me, and help me feel less like minnie mouse. Pointy heels are classic, IMO. (anyone notice Cameron diaz ALWAYS wears pointy heels? I think she looks great! And I don’t think anyone could accuse her of looking frumpy…)

    • AIMS

      We had this debate here before . I am of the mind that there’s classic pointy — good at all times, more or less; and then there’s crazy witch pointy — good a few years ago, maybe never again. I don’t think classic pointy (think your typical classic pump) is what most people are referring to.

    • Nonny

      I think it really depends on the person and their shoe preference. I think both look good (except for those witchy toes, which are just scary). However, I will never wear pointy toes no matter how trendy they are, simply because I find them brutally uncomfortable. But I will not judge someone else for wearing them if they are comfortable for that person…

      • ML

        Thanks for not judging. :)
        I guess my feet are pointy-shaped, bc they are way more comfortable for me than round toes. And I see that there’s a diff between the ‘classic’ point and the super witchy point.

  21. anon

    A lot of my clothes started to feel dated recently. Pants got narrower, tops got longer or blousier, shoes got sleeker. After cruising along in a similar mode for at least five years, I’ve had to do some significant updating.

  22. Bloom

    I think outfits and individual items can look dated because the details or finishings are either not clean and classic or not totally age appropriate. That can mean: suit jackets or dress coats with zipper closures in lieu of buttons, colored leather (other than tan, black or brown), jeans cut and color/wash, very large buttons, broad or thin lapels, trendy asymmetry (like ruffles or pin tucking on one side of a skirt or the dresses with a miniskirt front with a maxi back), peter pan collars, collarless oxford shirts, belled sleeves, obvious shoulder pads, toe and heel shape on pumps, mary janes and the style and sometimes brand of athletic footwear, and any tees etc with large brand name on it (e.g. “GAP Est. 1969” and the Polos with the BIG pony::shudder::) Oh, ITA with the poster above regarding velvet and velour except for about 10 days a year at the holidays.

      • Anna D.

        I will be so happy when skinny jeans become dated! (But it’s just envy because I can’t pull them off to save my life. They look really cute with boots on other people.)

        • Fiona

          I don’t care for skinny jeans (I think they make my hips look enormous), but I’m going to be very sad when tucking jeans into boots looks dated. I live in that look in the fall and winter!

        • SF Bay Associate

          I’m tired of the skinny jeans trend because some people still seem to be confusing leggings with pants. The very, very skinny, high-Lycra “jeans” which are basically leggings are not helping make this distinction clear. Slim-leg jeans can look great (not on me, but on someone else), and leggings are great when there’s something else, like a tunic, covering Important Places. But leggings are not pants. Through a friend who is a cardholder, I got access to Nordstrom’s preview of the Anniversary Sale, which seems to have multiple instances of leggings-as-pants confusion. In fact, a lot of what’s on preview looks dated to me, which is bizarre since it’s what’s “new” for fall – clearly I just have no taste :).

          • AEK

            I agree that leggings are not pants; however, if I had a body like the models in the catalogue, I think I would let this, and many other, rules slide and let it all (not) hang out. It doesn’t mean I’d be stylish—they’re still not pants!—but boy would I love to not to *have* to wear a top long enough to cover the thigh/butt area! (I mean “have to” only in terms of my own self consciousness, by the way!)

  24. Mary

    I am in my mid-forties and a lawyer. Yet, I have no desire for a boring grown-up designer Coach or D&B bag. No, I like the trendy, cheapo Converse bags they sell at Target. They speak to my inner-teen who couldn’t afford those cute bags back then! I know it is wrong, but it is the truth.

    • MelD

      Coach is grown up? I have coach bags but middle schoolers own bags/wristlets with a lot of the trendy designs. I have one friend who taught at a wealthy middle school and would spend her time during her duty periods just counting how many kids had Coach bags.

      • Anonymous

        I was once visiting some family of friends on Staten Island and their six year old looked at me and said, “This is my Coach bag. My mommy bought it for me because she loves me.” Honest to god, no exaggeration. Completely floored me.

        That girl is old enough to date now. I should probably find out what’s happened to her.

        • Duckie

          You know, kids often phrase things in a way that doesn’t convey the idea being expressed. “I love you! I bought you a present on my business trip to New York! It is a grown-up purse from mommy’s favorite store!” could easily be translated by a 6 year old into the quote above. I wouldn’t worry about the kid too much.

        • Mary

          Well, that tells you how warped my perspective is! I didn’t even know Coach is for kids. Now, I may go buy that sequined-camo purse I saw!

          • Duckie

            Well, that tells you how warped my perspective is! I didn’t even know Coach is for kids. Now, I may go buy that sequined-camo purse I saw!

      • ADS

        Grown up Coach is grown up. If you shop the Coach Classics (plain glove tanned leather, turnlock closures), those are absolutely grown up. If you shop Poppy or the colored wristlets, that is middle schooler.

        I have a Coach City Bag identical to the one my mother carried for twenty years, except mine is black and hers was brown. Never goes out of style. It’s also boring, but that’s the price we pay for being timeless. :)

    • Janie

      I think it’s interesting how differently we react to things we had/did not have as kids/teens – my temptation is to buy myself whatever I couldn’t have then, even if I don’t want it anymore!

  25. Dee

    Threadjack!
    A summer intern did an assignment for me that is ok but not great. We work in different buildings and we talked about the assignment over the phone. I have a fairly feminine voice and a technically unisex first name that is much more commonly used for girls these days. When he sent me his work product, he addressed the email to “Mr. Lastname.” I was in a rush when I acknowledged receipt and didn’t notice.
    Now that I’m sending him feedback on the work, should I mention the correction? My instinct is not to. Whether he knows my gender or not seems pretty irrelevant. He’s unlikely to do more work for me (due to the way the internship program is structured) and it seems like it would just embarrass him unnecessarily.
    What do the Corporettes think? Would you want to be told of the mistake?

    • Fiona

      I would say something. You’re giving him feedback, and one piece of important feedback here is that he should be detail-oriented including when addressing emails. If he didn’t know if you were a man or a woman, he should have looked it up or asked someone. If he still couldn’t figure it out, he should have fudged it with “Firstname:” It’s not a big deal to you given the situation, but it’s important feedback for him to have anyway. What if you were a client or a senior business contact?

    • Eponine

      I think it was probably a typo. When I’m rushed I often write Sarah instead of Sara, their instead of there, etc. If you point it out, point it out in the context that he should proofread his emails more carefully, not as though he didn’t realize you’re a woman. I’d probably just let it slide if there were bigger errors in his work, though.

    • Janie

      I’m a current intern. If I made a mistake like that, I would be HUGELY embarrassed to have it pointed out to me, but I still think you should do so. It’s an important lesson in paying attention to details. If everything else was A+, I’d say let it go, but it sounds like this lesson needs to be learned here.

    • Anon

      Mention it. No need to make it a big show of it, but you have a right to be addressed appropriately!

    • Dee

      Well, it turns out as I finished reading his memo it went from “ok” to really bad and not what I asked for. Really got the impression that this assignment was foisted on him by the person who is in charge of such things and the intern had no interest in it whatsoever.
      So I’ve asked him to come to an in-person meeting to discuss. Hopefully I can make it into a good mentoring opportunity (there was a thread on here not too long ago that I suspect will be helpful!). If he’s confused about my gender this will sort it out and there were enough typos in his work that I can easily say, “And you’ll want to take care in proofing your emails for typos too.”
      Thanks for the input!

  26. Eponine

    I think older people trying to follow “comeback” trends is likely to look dated. If I wear a blazer with shoulderpads, it’s not clear if I am being trendy, or if I still own a suit I bought in 1992. If a 22 year old wears a blazer with shoulderpads, it’s pretty clear she’s being trendy.

    I also think that a good rule of thumb is if you’re wearing something the exact same way you wore it 3 years ago, you need to change it up. This goes for hairstyles and makeup, and also for outfits. For example, if you’ve had the same makeup colors for 3 years, change them up. If you’ve worn the same blazer, skirt, and top combo as a go-to for 3 years, change it up. If you’ve worn the same hairstyle for 3 years, change it up. And so on.

  27. Janie

    Another thing that changes is necklace length. I have several great gold and silver chains that I got as gifts in high school in the late 90s/early 2000s. They are too short to wear right now, though at that time longer chains looked dated. I’m patiently waiting for the look to return. Meanwhile, I wear a lot of long “statement” necklaces. Can corporettes please warn me when my long necklaces start to look dated? kthx :)

    • 897

      I am not sure that shorter chain necessarily look dated. Maybe it depends on the chain? If anything, a lot of what I am seeing now is shorter and longer chains paired together.

      • Kanye East

        I’m seeing a lot of layering with necklaces right now, too.

        Don’t worry, Janie. Opera length will always be classic. ;)

      • Duckie

        I don’t see a lot of shorter chains with a single pendant/stone/medal these days. I think that’s what she meant. So-called statement necklaces seem to really be in now.

    • Nonny

      I am not sure I agree with you re necklace length. Different lengths are suitable for different outfits. However, it also depends on your body type. I am 5’4″ and have a fairly delicate build. Generally speaking, I need short necklaces so they sit correctly on my neckline. If I want something really dramatic, I generally have to go either really short or really long – an in-between length just doesn’t look right on me due to my build.

  28. govvie

    An oft-mentioned look in this blog: the business wear/aerobics shoe combination… why, DC ladies, why? I want to run to the nearest DSW and buy every woman wearing that a pair of cute, comfortable flats, or at least some cute “street” sneaks. This is followed closely by the overplucked brow, and large bangs accompanied by the scrunchie.

    • Duckie

      I’m really more concerned with the health of my feet, knees and back than with satisfying your aesthetic tastes. I also do not want to carry two pairs of shoes, one for the office and one for my workout, while wearing a completely superfluous pair of flats, which I find incredibly uncomfortable anyway.

      Complaining about commuting shoes is like complaining that women wear yoga pants to the supermarket. They’re clearly not trying to put together an outfit; they’re wearing what is comfortable and suitable for the task at hand.

      • 897

        I don’t know if I agree with the yoga pants analogy. You can wear yoga pants to the supermarket but that doesn’t mean you look in any way inappropriate. Now, wearing yoga pants with heels to a party . . . that’s more of an appropriate anology.

        As for sneakers, you can certainly wear what you want with whatever you want, BUT that doesn’t mean you can expect people not to frown on your sartorial choices. Notice that the OP did not propose you wear uncomfortable shoes, but suggested “comfortable flats” or at least a more discreet sneaker. You don’t have to do what the OP suggests, but the post is about what looks dated, and, like it or not, commuting in running shoes looks dated. Period.

        • Essie

          What about wearing a pair of running shoes with a long flowy dress?

          Just saw a co-worker wearing that in the office this morning! The things people mention on this blog seem like minor infractions compared to what I see every day. Oh well.

        • Duckie

          A person on a train wearing a suit with running shoes is clearly not wearing an outfit, any more than a woman at the grocery store in yoga pants is wearing an outfit. The idea of looking “dated” when you are obviously not wearing pieces that you put together to make an outfit is absurd. Should I be concerned that my pajamas are dated, too?

          • Em

            Right. I don’t really see the point of all this – women wearing sneakers with suits are well aware that they’re not being fashionable or stylish. It’s not like they’re deluded on this point. They just don’t care what strangers they see on their commute think. Heaven forfend.

          • Kim

            Sorry Duckie, I really have to disagree. This is really a matter of style over fashion. I would hope you are always wearing an outfit at any time you dress yourself. The simplest choices can determine whether you look dated: the choice of yoga pants over Adidas tear-aways, the wash or cut of your favourite jeans, the shape of your comfy athletic shoes, the decorative details on your t-shirt. Even if you are not dressing up there are many details that speak volumes about your personal style and can make you look classic, trendy or dated as the case may be. So really, whether going to the grocery store or commuting to and from the office, there are ways to find all the comfort and utility you need for the moment without looking completely out of touch. My feet and back are pretty indifferent between chunky skate shoes, colourful Aisics or my gym shoes, but the image I project is not.

            As for your pajamas, the answer lies in who will see your pajamas. As always, comfort comes in a number of forms, it is always nice to find the most attractive version of comfort and function available.

    • Bonnie

      Govvie: I agree 100%. I’m all for comfortable shoes but don’t understand why so many women wear those huge, white sneakers with white tube socks with suits. You’re walking to the metro, not running a marathon.

        • Anon

          guessing these comments are from younger ladies who don’t yet have bunions etc.- painful foot situations that require very comfortable shoes. most flats don’t suffice if you are walking far, on steps, etc. getting old= good times!

        • Herbie

          This. I just cracked up in my office. Perhaps you could switch out the headband for a scrunchie to update your look.

    • eaopm3

      The overplucked brow is an epidemic where I live. When I was 19, I went to a high end make-up counter and the make-up artist nearly shrieked when she saw how overplucked my brows were. I was so mortified so I committed to growing them back. It took almost an entire year. It makes me sad that many of my friends have waxed their eyebrows so much that they’ll never have their real eyebrows back. Thank god for the make-up artist in the Miami Saks 5th Avenue.

    • kaydee

      They are women who are hopelessly stuck in the 80s. I want to help them too, but for whatever reason, feel they are beyond it. Sigh. I don’t know where they are getting these messages from either. I suspect many simply don’t care.

      When I wear a skirt, I wear flats. In pants (such as yoga pants) I can get away with sneakers for my commute. I dress for my outfit. I’ve said it before here – if I’m stuck in an elevator on my way to/from work with other co-workers, especially those above me in the food chain, I want to at least look put together. The dress/skirt and sneaker combo doesn’t portray that.

    • Ballerina Girl

      I’ll say this, I think it looks horrible, but I had foot surgery last year and totally get why people do it. Lots of (especially older) women have really painful foot problems that make “comfortable flats” actually not all the comfortable. I tend to agree that you should make an effort to look put together, even if you’re in commuting/grocery store clothes, but the shoe ones always get me because I didn’t get it until I got it–not worth taking pain meds to have cute shoes on the subway!

      • Rose

        This.

        Come back and talk to me about “comfortable” flats when you are in your 50’s, as I am.

    • Nonny

      Now *there* is something that is so dated it should be outlawed: the Scrunchie. I would like to build a scrunchie bonfire and dance around it.

      • Faith

        I have two good uses for them –

        1.) Sleeping with my hair back when it is hot out, without getting a tell tale elastic mark, if I am wearing straight hair for a second day.

        2.) Keeping freshly layered hair back when working out. Regularly, I use the black elastic. But when my layers are fresh, the only thing that can keep them in one place is an ugly old scrunchie.

  29. 897

    In terms of work clothes, I think it’s less risky to invest in classic colors and patterns. Solids in classic colors. Patterns only if they are well-established, such as small polka dots in a classic color combo such as navy and white. The go-to advice is to always “pick classic shapes and introduce trends with your accessories.” I think I agree with this. Then, if silhouttes change throughout the years, you can take it to the tailor for an update. I was recently at my tailor and the man in front of me, who was in his 60s, was getting all his jackets nipped in at the waist and shoulders to get a “more modern look.” The sportscoat he was wearing at the time looked fab and very modern, and as we got to talking, it turned out he already brought that one in to be “updated.” I think he had the right idea!

  30. Christine

    Any extremes and anything that does not flatter you. Anything that no one wore 10 years ago is unlikely to last. Strange patterns and words on clothing can also date quickly.

    I tend to pick the things that look best on me, within what is currently on offer and I can wear my clothes out without seeing them go out of fashion. I look good in vivid colours and crisp pastels but not in anything muted. I can always wear a red v-neck top and look good. I know orange isn’t my colour turtlenecks aren’t my style, and any compliments I may get on it are about looking edgy. A purple top with a few ruffles is cute on me, but will look dated in a few years. So what I’d do is skip the orange, get a red top in good quality and a cheap purple one. By the time it is outdated, I can throw it out guiltfree.

    Things that will outdate within five years: Shorts suits, jumpsuits, stripper platform soles, harem trouwers, bell bottoms, huge pouffy ruffles. Those custom men’s shirts with floral prints in the collar.

    Milder versions that could likely still be worn: shoes with a half inch platform and slim heels, mermaid skirts with just a bit of flare, simple asymmetric evening dresses.

    Some themes always come back in fashion at some point; Nautical and safari in summer, polka dots and BB-checks for spring/summer, black/white, British styles with tweeds, cords and tartans in fall, black/leather/punk in fall, velvet in winter, all black in winter…Obviously not all of these look in place at work, but these themes can generally be reused if they are becoming on you.

  31. shrink

    Well, in the past year I have ditched the zip-up front jackets I used to wear with solid tops and skirts. They were patterned, mainly Joseph Ribbkoff (sp) and light enough for year round in Texas’ AC offices. Thanks to the kind comments of all the corporettes in a similar post last year…I got rid of them as they were deemed “matronly” or “something my grandmother wears.”

    Good grief! I am far from either and was going with what looked “fun” and not so “stuffy.” Granted, I’m in a more of a less conservative field and have my own shop (so to speak) so I can wear what I want. However, I will always appreciate the notions and observations from the corporettes!

    It was Joan Rivers, I believe in the 1990s, who said – if you wore it the first time, you cannot wear it the second…implyin no matter if your shape has remained the same. So I pass on maxi dresses, wedges, platforms, cork or raffia wedges, tie dye for casual, halters (oh to have to wear lingerie with them now…) … the 70s were fun back then, but now … not at all.

    What is the general thought on the long pullover vest shape of sweaters? I am seeing them more and wondering … with long sleeve tanks underneath? Can’t wear a jacket with the shoulder shapes…so this can’t be office worthy anywhere, can it?

    • Anon

      I think this is true. I am in my mid-30s and am not drawn to any of the 80s style clothing that is popular now. The funny thing is that I didn’t even really wear it then. I wanted to desperately, but my mother didn’t let us wear trendy styles. Now that I can make my own style choices, I’m over it.

  32. ADS

    I may be in the minority, but I don’t buy much of anything expecting it to last me more than five years. That may be because my weight fluctuates more than most people, or maybe I own fewer articles of everything I own, but things start to look shabby after five years. My only exception would be evening clothes and shoes that don’t get worn very often – I have a long black evening dress from Jones New York Evening that I’ve owned and worn for twelve years now. In twelve years I’ve only worn it twenty times, though. Same with the strappy black heels I bought for my high school prom – they kept going until I finally wore through a strap after nearly fifteen years. My suits start to look shabby after three years, and I don’t dryclean often.

    Instead of trying to buy things that will last forever, I try to buy fewer pieces that mix and match well. For years when I worked in a formal business environment I kept three or four black suits (pants and skirts) in rotation, broken up with two or three colorful and/or textured jackets and a few cardigans at a time. (I look really good in black, so I built a lot of my wardrobe around it.) As a suit wore out it was replaced with another one. My average jacket length thus meandered gently up – none of the suit jackets I owned ten years ago would be an appropriate length for today, and I doubt that any that I own now will be appropriate in ten years.

    I mean, sure, if you find a good black pencil skirt, and you stay the same weight forever, and you don’t wear it too often, it’ll last you pretty much forever; as will a cashmere twinset in a color that looks fabulous on you, but not much other than that stays fashionable for that long.

    Does anyone have an article of clothing that they’ve owned and worn for more than ten years that they think has stayed wearable over that whole period?

    • Ballerina Girl

      I don’t consciously try to buy clothes that’ll last that long, but I’ll sometimes surprise myself and realize a certain dress is from 5 years ago. This doesn’t work with things that I wear more regularly (like a suit) but for random items (certain blazers, too) they can last a while if you don’t wear them all that often.

      • Nonny

        This has been happening to me a lot lately for some reason – in particular, since I’ve been bringing my summer dresses back into their seasonal rotation.

    • Ruby Lou

      I’m envious that you get three years out of a suit before it starts to look shabby. Mine have been lasting two years, tops before starting to get shiny-looking. (We will not speak of the Ann Taylor suits that disintegrated within a year.)

    • Maharani

      Yes, I have a light grey/dark grey striped cashmere dress (Pringle) I bought at the St. Andrews woolen mill in 1978 for ten pounds sterling that I still wear, belted, as a dress with opaque hose and booties. Classic then classic now and the best $25 I ever spent. Ive had it 33 years……

  33. JC

    I think that hose generally look dated, unless they are worn with a conservative suit and signal that they are being worn because the situation/office requires them.

    But regardless of whether hose are actually dated, I bet they won’t be soon because Kate Middleton seems to be a big fan of sheer nude hose.

    • Duckie

      Random trivia – she has to be a fan of hose, because protocol requires that you wear it when you’re in the presences of the queen. Also no bare shoulders. She doesn’t really get to make all her own style choices.

    • Frump

      She is also the princess of England/married to the eventual king, often meeting dignitaries and representing the royal family in front of world leaders, at huge gatherings, etc. I should say I would hope she would be a fan of sheer nude hose. I am not sure given all that it would be appropriate for her to go around meeting the President of Wherever or the King of Thatplace bare-legged.

        • Anonymous

          Well, if you can’t be in the presence of the Queen bare-legged, then why is it okay to go in front of a jury with no hose? I don’t want my colleagues to judge my hose, but I would be mortified to go to court and have the judge be a woman who graduated from law school in 1970 because I would bet she doesn’t want to see my blotchy white legs anymore than the Queen of England!

        • Frump

          To be fair, I think Mrs. O dresses horrifically inappropriately a majority of the time. I recall seeing a picture of her wearing a sleeveless red and white sundress to a Medal of Honor ceremony. I was appalled and saddened that she couldn’t at least put on a suit (or a blazer) for such a solemn and serious ceremony.

          Honestly given how many people seem to think things like ponytails at work are inappropriate, I am always shocked at how many people seem to be in awe of Mrs. O’s fashion choices, which I happen to think are generally pretty terrible for a First Lady.

          I did think however she looked nice when she met the Pope and her PR people managed to convince her that one of her too tight sundresses with no sleeves and a too-cinched belt was not the right choice and managed to get her in an all black, modest outfit that really was perfect, deumre, and wonderfully appropriate for a First Lady meeting the Pope.

          • AEK

            Yes, I too, always dress formally and demurely when meeting former Nazi-Youth child-abuse-apologists. Of all people to pull out the “respectful” garb for.
            (Before you flame me, I have an opinion about THIS individual. I was raised Roman Catholic, understand the role of the papacy, and respect religion in general although I don’t practice. So this is a comment about my feelings about one individual, not religion or popes or whatever. )

          • Frump

            AEK, what a hateful and useless comment to post, as your point is quite a non-sequitur anyway. Regardless of one’s opinion about a certain individual, there still may be standards of dress appropriate to adhere to when meeting said person. I wouldn’t show up to meet the Saudi king in a bikini or a mini-skirt, regardless of my opinion of him. I would dress appropriately and respectfully as the situation called for.

        • Eponine

          Mrs. O’s the first lady of a democracy and doesn’t have to worry about offending some archaic monarchic traditions. And thank goodness for that.

          • Frump

            Are you serious?

            Is the whole point of this blog not to talk about what types of clothing are appropriate for certain circumstances?

            Are you serious?

            Would you say this about her meeting, say, the head of the Saudi government, the Dalai Lama, or some other similar figure for whom it would be appropriate and respectful to dress modestly in front of? Regardless of what somebody’s opinions about a religion or figure might be, there are still standards of dress that should be adhered to to convey respect.

            I really am at a loss for words. There are so many debates about this board about whether we should wear something as stupid as peep toes to work, and yet somebody here is defending that it is a good thing that our First Lady can’t be bothered to wear a pair of nylons in front of a respected world figure?

  34. mamabear

    I am late on this thread, but having bought work clothes for 20+ years, and some of it “investment” clothing, I can say confidently that nothing is truly classic. Some aspect of style always changes – how fitted the jacket is, whether the skirt tapers toward the knee, the shoulder pads, etc – and makes your item look terribly dated after 3 to 5 years. If you have a lot of closet space and are really good at storing clothing in an archival fashion, you might get a second go-round using the piece as a kitschy vintage item. But I am definitely disillusioned about the idea of timeless, classic clothing.

    I find that women regard whichever style was current when they were coming of age to be the classics. For instance, women 10 years older than me have been wearing short hairstyles with volume on top their entire adult lives, and they regard that as classic. I think of pointy toed shoes as classic (though I’m not exclusive with them) and so does my mom – I’m from basically the late ’80s and she’s from the late ’50s.

  35. Anon

    Here’s a thought: who cares if you look dated?

    (ok, I do and try not to!) but… thinking it over… many of the senior women in my huge company (ie who make million plus a year) dress in very dated outfits, often, and the male-heavy leadership sure wouldn’t know if it hit them on the head. I’d say the most successful women in my company, often, are the least ‘on trend.’ They are older, they are busy, they are traveling, they have families, they wear suits. They wear shoes that can take them all day through airports, meetings, giving speeches. Not saying I love every outfit they wear, but just a shout out for the ‘who cares’ and ‘it may serve you just fine’ line of reasoning.

    • Eponine

      Well, this is a fashion blog, so it’s for women who care about looking fashionable. If someone doesn’t care about looking fashionable, I don’t expect them to care about looking dated, so long as they dress appropriately.

      • counselorcap

        I have respect for super-competent women who are indifferent to style. I’m no fashion plate myself, but I hope my clothes aren’t thought to look dated or overly dowdy.

        • Maharani

          I tend to agree with Anon-who cares? I like nice clothes but after 25 years as a lab scientist am disconnected from fashion, have no time, and find it largely irrelevant and stupid. I have a job which requires frequent pm dress up. I wear saris. There are lots of lovely designer ones and Indian clothes are forgiving to the aging female body. OK-Im Indian, but I am now very glad I have that option as there is not much out there otherwise except stuff in 56 shades of taupe. I dread the arrival of the LBS (little black sari)….

  36. anonymous

    Big shoulder pads. A silhouette that differs from the currently popular one. Eighties fashions are very obvious because of the shoulder pads and long, sack-like jackets of some of the suits.

  37. counselorcap

    I read a women’s tailoring book that said a lapel of about 3″, in other words, a moderate width, tends to date less fast, and that while one can always narrow a wide lapel, if you buy a jack with narrow ones you have to wait until the style comes back.

    Except it never really does. :-)

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