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Updated: Oct 30, 2018 362 Comments · by

Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Piped Dress in Stretch Cotton

The Personal Shopper (TPS) |

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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. This piped dress from J.Crew looks lovely — it's got a nice high V-neck and high armholes with a very work-appropriate back and pockets! We're picturing the white but I prefer the Tuscan olive (because I'm not personally a fan of white dresses). I think it looks like a great basic if you can pull it off. It comes in regular 000–16, petite 00–12, and tall 2–16 for $128. Piped Dress in Stretch Cotton Two plus-size options are here and here. This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support! Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.

Sales of note for 10.10.24

  • Nordstrom – Extra 25% off clearance (through 10/14); there's a lot from reader favorites like Boss, FARM Rio, Marc Fisher LTD, AGL, and more. Plus: free 2-day shipping, and cardmembers earn 6x points per dollar (3X the points on beauty).
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale (ends 10/12)
  • Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything plus extra 25% off your $125+ purchase
  • Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
  • Eloquii – Extra 50% off a lot of sale items, with code
  • J.Crew – 40% off sitewide
  • J.Crew Factory – 50% off entire site, plus extra 25% off orders $150+
  • Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
  • M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
  • Neiman Marcus – Sale on sale, up to 85% off
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – 50% off 2+ markdowns
  • Target – Circle week, deals on 1000s of items
  • White House Black Market – Buy one, get one – 50% off full price styles

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

About Kat

Kat Griffin is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of Corporette. You can read more about her here.

Comments

  1. Skincare recs

    I don’t wear make-up, but I’d like to improve my skin care routine. I have combination skin (dry in patches, oily in others) as well as mild rosacea, but otherwise, my skin is okay. My main goals are sun protection and looking healthy and natural, and I’d like to use the fewest products possible (I have a very low-maintenance routine). Can anyone recommend any good European skin care products? I want European products, not American ones, because the EU has much higher standards for safety and testing in cosmetic ingredients (although I’d be open to “natural” products here too – I’ve heard people like coconut oil). I’m thinking I wouldn’t want to go much farther than a good moisturizer, sunscreen, and maybe night cream. TIA!

    • Pai

      I’ve been really happy with products from Pai skincare. Their formulations are very simple but elegant and effective. Unfortunately no SPF. Their rosehip oil used three times a week has transformed my skin – I get compliments on my “glow” all the time.

    • Anonymous

      You may want to check out Clarins or La Roche-Posay product lines. I use both.

    • Anon

      La Roche Posay and Laneige are great. For three products – Sunscreen: La Roche Posay ANTHELIOS XL ULTRA LIGHT FLUID SPF 50+; Night Cream: Laneige Water Sleeping Mask; Day Cream: PIXI H2O Skindrink.

      I’d also suggest an oil cleanser to get off the SPF and cleanse at night. Something like Clinique Take the Day off Balm or Oil.

      • anne-on

        +1 to an oil cleanser, but they can be found much much cheaper by asian brands on Amazon – I like the Banila clean it zero balm, but Innisfree makes good ones as well.

        • Anon

          Anon at 9:56 here, I loooove the asian ones (and how cheap they are), but the OG Banila has mineral oil in it which my skin can’t handle

    • Marshmallow

      Check out the company Follain. They’re American but only carry products that pass EU standards, with an emphasis on natural products. I’ve gotten Herbivore and Josh Rosebrook stuff there that I like a lot. For specifically European brands, I have super sensitive skin and have had good luck with Avene, LaRoche-Posay, and Bioderma.

    • nutella

      Asian companies have the highest standard for beauty products and South Korea spends an insane amount on R&D within the cosmetics and beauty industry, so if you really want more bang for your buck, go there. The distinction between US and EU beauty safety standards is negligible, especially when you consider how many brands are owned under one company and available in your local drug store or department store (Lancome, L’Oreal, Nivea v. Olay, Neutrogena, etc.) not to mention Amazon!

      • ELS

        +1. I’ve recently gotten into Korean skincare, and it’s been a really pleasant change for me.

      • Anonymous

        Asia is the place to go for sunscreen in particular. I like Japanese brands (Biore, Skin Aqua, Nivea), myself.

  2. all about eevee

    Can anyone help me out with white dresses for a bride to wear to a City Hall wedding, preferably with long or 3/4 length sleeves? I am struggling here.

  3. Anon

    I’m pretty sure my boyfriend is looking at rings. We were both married before and amicably divorced. I still have my first ring, which has a very good quality 1.3 carat center stone and lots of small side diamonds. Would I be beyond crazy to offer the ring to him to reuse the stones and/or trade with a jeweler for something else? I’m so frugal that I hate the idea of $10,000 worth of diamonds sitting in my lockbox, knowing he’s about to go spend thousands of his own. My boyfriend can afford to buy a ring, it’s just my frugality.

    (I don’t want to make the ring into a necklace, and I can’t get anything for it if I sell it, so my plan was just keep it until I had children some day and offer the stones to them.)

    • all about eevee

      Why don’t you talk to him about it? I just went through the engagement ring purchasing process with my fiance, and I think he would have been hurt if I suggested making a new ring out of anything given to me by a former lover. If you want to be frugal, suggest that he look at moissanite or morganite rings instead.

      • ELS

        I have a moissanite ring from when we got engaged in early 2011 (I’m pretty sure he bought it in 2010). It’s held up really well, looks like a super clear diamond, and was 10% as expensive as a similarly priced ring that we looked at.

        I did not care at all about my ring being a diamond. We considered non-traditional stones like aquamarine, but given how hard I am on my rings (I do sports, garden, etc and don’t always remove them beforehand), I’m glad I didn’t go with a softer stone.

        I don’t know that I would want, personally, to remake a ring from an old lover into one from/for my new relationship, but if that’s something that you think wouldn’t bother you or him, I say bring it up.

        • ELS

          Ugh. Not similarly priced. Similarly appointed diamond ring. More coffee, please.

        • all about eevee

          I got a moissanite antique style ring from Moissanite Co because I fell in love with one of their vintage filigree settings. My ring is beautiful and no one has ever asked if it was a diamond. We are happy we saved the money.

      • Veronica Mars

        Seconding moissanite rings. If it works out with my current beau, then that’s what I’m going to insist on! The other option is doing vintage or secondhand. Jewels by Grace has tons of antique diamonds and diamond rings that are gorgeous.

    • Anony Mouse

      While my husband and I are both frugal people, I suspect that if I had been in a situation like yours, he wouldn’t have wanted to re-gift me with something I received from another significant other. I get where you’re coming from and I sympathize, but I’m concerned offering him the ring to use towards a new one would hurt his pride.

    • mascot

      Does he know about the ring? You could mention it as part of a bigger conversation about finances/assets. My husband was pretty upfront with me that he wasn’t going to spend a ton of money on a stone and we had talked about couples we knew with expensive rings on payment plans and how that wasn’t something we wanted. Unless this is a family stone that has been handed down, he may be more comfortable with the idea of trading it in.

    • Brunette Elle Woods

      I think it’s nice of you to want to be frugal and offer the diamonds, but I would absolutely not offer to use them in a new ring. The symbolic meaning is what is so important about an engagement ring. Using diamonds from an ex’s e gagement ring ruins the significance. What about offering to sell them or trade them at the jewelry store? Some stores will buy jewelry from customers. That way you’re getting the value of the diamonds, but also getting a completely new ring.

      • In-House in Houston

        I agree. Plus, I know it sounds silly, but I’d be worried that the bad juju from the first marriage would follow because the stones were recycled.

        • Bonnie

          I have my great-grandmother’s wedding and engagement rings but my mom promised me that they would not be used as wedding rings because they have bad karma.

          • Clementine

            I got a family wedding set – I kept the engagement ring as it, because they had a very happy engagement, but had the wedding ring front cut off and rebuilt into a new ring to avoid some bad juju.

    • Baconpancakes

      I’d just keep it for your children. Accepting a family ring, even from a previous marriage, is way more acceptable than using it for a new marriage. We are actually going to be using a near flawless diamond from one of my mother’s previous marriages, since her ex-husband was far more willing to spend big money on a gorgeous diamond than either I or my SO. My SO is fine with it, since it’s less money out of his pocket, and I get a nicer ring than I would otherwise!

    • Cat

      I would tread carefully. If I were your bf, I’d worry that you’d be reminded of your ex every time you looked at the ring (even redesigned). Picture it the other way – your bf wants to be frugal and asks you if you mind wearing his ex’s engagement ring/stones.

      Save the stones for kids or trade it in.

    • Anonymous

      Yes, crazy. If you don’t like the idea of them just sitting around sell them. Put the money someplace sensible.

    • Anonymous

      If you can’t get anything for it if you sell it, it’s not worth $10,000.

    • Anondc

      I’m confused, if its a good quality ring (worth $10,000), why ‘cant you get anything for it’ if you sell it? I personally think its weird to keep the ring after a marriage has ended (even though it was amicable). Just sell or trade it like Anon at 9:31 says and use that money towards a new ring, investments, savings, a honeymoon, or even the wedding itself.

      Also you dont “have” to spend thousands on a ring if you dont want to. There are plenty of alternative ring options for frugal folks like yourself – Etsy is a good place to start!

          • Anondc

            I mean…she can still sell it – even if she only gets half of what its worth. $5k can get you an amazing honeymoon or less expensive new wedding ring (or even both). She didnt even buy it so its not like shes losing out on anything…

        • Anonymous

          I think the point is, the ring is NOT worth $10k. That’s just what it cost when it was purchased.

          Agree with the other poster above – if you can’t sell it for $10K, it’s not worth $10k – it’s worth whatever you can sell it for.

          • tribble

            I’m not bothered by OP’s characterization. Value gets tricky with things like jewelry, art, antiques, etc. The item is “worth” whatever an appraiser says it’s worth. You can insure it for that dollar amount. You wouldn’t be able to buy it for much less. But you, an individual, probably won’t be able to sell it for that amount.

    • tribble

      Why is your ring just sitting in a lock box? If you’re never going to wear it as a ring (and let’s be honest, if it’s sitting in a lock box then you’re never going to wear it as a ring) then get it remade into a pendant or something.

      • LHW

        Melt down the gold and make the ring into a diamond pendant.

        My parents were married previously and they melted their rings together and made them into a pendant (looked like a gold nugget) my dad wore. It sounds silly now but I always thought it was cool.

    • Blonde Lawyer

      Used engagement rings lose value because of the stigma attached to them. Even if you want to sell it, I’d use the diamonds to make something new and then sell that. Use the side diamonds to make stud earrings and the middle diamond to make a necklace and sell it as a diamond necklace and earring combo.

      You could even put the middle diamond into an earring and sell it as a diamond earring with no mate. Maybe a guy or someone with uneven piercings will buy it OR someone will buy it to use in an engagement ring.

      My engagement ring was my husband’s grandmother’s and he wanted to add his own spin on it but adding side diamonds. We went to the store and buying earrings was cheaper than loose diamonds for engagement rings. Our jeweler just used those diamonds to make the sides of the ring. I’m not sure if there are a lot of people that shop for earrings to use for rings but it’s worth a shot.

      • SFAttorney

        Here is an alternative for those who don’t want or need to get money from an old ring: “The Ring Project is a non-profit organization that creates a new purpose for diamond engagement rings- we use the proceeds from the sale of donated rings to fund civil society initiatives led by women in the Democratic Republic of Congo.”
        http://www.theringproject.org/home.html

    • Senior Attorney

      I agree with everyone else that using the stones given to you by someone you ended up divorcing is not the symbolism most people would be into. But… if you and your gentleman friend have good communication, I don’t see the harm in talking to him about it.

      My ring has a stone that belonged to my husband’s late wife. I have no problem with that at all because, as you noted, frugality, and also it’s a memento of a long and happy marriage so I feel like it has good karma. I kicked in some gold odds and ends to trade in, too.

      So I say you do you and if you think he’d be receptive, what the heck?

      • Anonymous

        I think a late wife and ex-wife’s rings have very different connotations.

    • JuniorMinion

      There’s always the ability to voice your desire to not have an engagement ring and to put that money towards (honeymoon, house, investments) etc. I told my now husband this – I used to joke that he could buy me more stock and choose where the funds were allocated as his reward for not buying me an engagement ring. We just got nice wedding bands and exchanged those when we actually got married.

    • Anonny

      Or just skip the engagement rock altogether and only get wedding bands?
      That’s the real frugal way.

    • Anon

      Explain to a jeweler and ask the jeweler to do a like-kind exchange, basically. One stone for a similar one, maybe the jeweler profits to something like 5%. But get a different stone just because, I think.

  4. anon

    i found a few that could work at Nordstrom Rack

    https://www.nordstromrack.com/shop/product/2004447/rachel-rachel-roy-embroidered-lace-dress?color=HEAVY%20LACE

    https://www.nordstromrack.com/shop/product/2102132/soieblu-dolman-sleeve-crochet-dress?color=IVORY-NUDE

    https://www.nordstromrack.com/shop/product/2120339/vince-camuto-lace-fit-flare-dress?color=IVORY

    https://www.nordstromrack.com/shop/product/2084171/shoshanna-clemente-shift-dress?color=OPTIC

    https://www.nordstromrack.com/shop/product/1949527/marina-metallic-lace-dress?color=IVORY-GOLD

    https://www.nordstromrack.com/shop/product/2082051/eliza-j-floral-lace-shift-dress?color=WHT%20BLACK

    https://www.nordstromrack.com/shop/product/2008032/trina-turk-lyn-crochet-lace-fit-flare-dress?color=WHITEWASH

  5. PNWer

    Thoughts on / experience being the only woman and most junior person at a small firm? Boutique consulting, not law, if that matters.

    I’m happy in my current role at a ~60-person firm with decent diversity, given our sector, and am on a good trajectory towards partner — but am not sure the specific focus of our work is what I really want long-term. Recruiter reached out about a firm with a focus well aligned with what I’m interested in long-term, but, it’s smaller and all men. The prospect of being the ONLY woman gives me some pause and makes me not inclined to follow up on it… again, I’m not expecting much in our sector and have worked well as one of just a couple women forever, but still.

    Or, perhaps the broader question is – how do you decide how much to pursue potentially interesting opportunities when things are fine where you are *and* you’re working a ton of hours?!

    • Anonymous

      Have they had female associates that have moved elsewhere? That would be a red flag for me. What’s the age range and reputation of the male lawyers currently there?

    • Lady Lawyer

      +1 interested in replies. In your shoes-ish because I recently just joined a small place = SMALL like 4 men attorneys, and then me.

      I’ve heard from the admin (staff of 3 is all women, of course) that there have been women attorneys who cycled through. The most recent lady-atty got married and had a kid and decided that she did not want to stay practicing. I took that story with a grain of salt – but I did not see it as a red flag. Maybe I’m naive and new to practice (and I don’t have kids ), but the 4 guys here come and go at their leisure. They’re always talking about their kids and they roll out of the office at 4pm to go to tee-ball practice or daycare pickup. In this sense, I don’t worry about flexibility or worry about it being a harsh/unfriendly environment for women…. maybe just a minute environment where women have not prized longevity here? I don’t know. I’m planning to stay as LONG as humanly possible because it is a great place (so far) and there is work/life balance and I enjoy the work we do…

      I don’t really know what the answer is on “where are all the women?”

      I feel pretty impressed with myself that I AM the only woman lawyer right now and I like to see myself as blazing a path for any future growth with more women in higher positions. Again, I could be totally naive and talk to me again in a few years…. but as of right now, I think it’s important as a woman to move into roles where we can flex our skills and show that we can be the only woman.

      • Anon

        I have done this as well but was at a firm of about fifteen attorneys. I was the only woman. The men worked 7-7 (which I know is not bad in Big Law, but to me in mid- to small-law, it was not ideal). I did not understand when they did things like bought groceries or did laundry– then I realized that they don’t do any of those things. They all had stay at home wives. I was single mid-twenties. One of the partners introduced me to someone who commented “Hey, John, I didn’t know they made lawyers that look like THAT!” right in front of me, and “John” said “Yeah, we changed some of our hiring criteria,” wink wink. Also right in front of me. I quit two weeks later.

        I would find out who are some women who have worked there, and I would call them. That’s really the only way you can know.

      • PNWer

        Unfortunately the firm has only been around ~3-4 years, so I don’t think anyone has left at all (or that any women have ever been hired besides, of course, the admin). The founding partners’ prior firms are standard for the industry in terms of diversity. I’ll certainly use my network as much as possible and listen to my gut feeling after meeting them if I decide to pursue it… but, definitely some risk involved.

        • anon

          If it’s new, I’d not worry about it – they’re probably trying to get women, starting with you!

        • ponte python's flying circus

          I wouldn’t write them off based on gender alone; if you’re interested in the field long-term, I’d meet with them, individually and hopefully as a group, and suss out the dynamics. If there are any obvious s*xist red flags, I’d run in the other direction!

          Only after that can you figure out whether you’d fit in. Think also about how they perceive you and where *they* see *you* fitting in (some of this is unspoken and about hierarchy as well – will they just throw all the scut work your way, as the most junior ‘Girl Friday’ employee, or will they throw the scut work your way AND give you ‘potential partner’ opportunities for growth?)

    • BigLaw

      In BigLaw and I don’t see the problem being different in a smaller firm (but the sample size issue magnifies it there).

      When I had my first child, I was in my late 30s and was one of the seniormost women at my firm’s office. I am the most senior woman locally and my kids are in elementary school. The washout rate is a big, scary thing. It just gets really hard.

      BUT, you need to work somewhere and if the guys have a good lifestyle and you are getting good work, that’s great. It won’t be better anywhere else (and may be substantially worse). The #s are damning. I know one female attorney with a middle schooler and none with kids older than that.

      I know one woman who is a grandmother who works in state and local tax law and one in real estate who has college-aged kids and one who is a co-worker’s parent who was in-house and then worked for the govt, but only one is local and the other two seem like unicorns.

    • Anonymous

      Other than the first year of my career, I have never had a woman colleague who was senior to me. I dealt with this by doing good work and by reaching out and getting involved in outside organizations to meet female mentors. FWIW, I’ve got a successful career, am firmly mid-level, and am a single parent. I’d just do your research and see if you think the environment/culture would work for you. Of course, if you personally want to work with women, then that’s your own choice and one you’re free to follow.

  6. Cuyana?

    Can anyone comment about the quality of Cuyana? I’m interested in their white silk tee and wondering how opaque it is. I’m so tired of white shirts that are practically see through.

    • Kk

      I’m obsessed with mine. Its opaque enough that I wear a nude for me bra underneath and sometimes see a faint line but it’s better quality than anything else I’ve found. I have consciously had to try to wear other tops because I love that one so much.

      One caveat though- its silk, and so it wrinkles. a lot. Either I’ m constantly wrestling the iron or I’m accepting the rumples.

    • Baconpancakes

      Piggybacking on this, anyone know of a company that makes larger silk tees? Their size Large is a size 10, based on the measurements provided, and I need a 14 for my bust.

      • Kk

        Mine is a large, I’m somewhere between an 8-12 in most shirts, and it fits PERFECTLY- I’m tall and longwaisted, and the length is to below my belt buckle in front. This shirt is a holy grail item for me- I’m saving up to stock up on other colors!

        • Baconpancakes

          Hmm, definitely not for me then. I am very short-waisted and my hips are huge, so it sounds like it would just bunch up at my waist in the Large.

      • MJ

        Pure Collection, which is somehow related to Boden. However, their inventory management is atrocious, so expect shipping delays and the like. They go up to Size 20. Talbots has a few sleeveless silk shells in their sale too.

  7. AZCPA

    I’m going to a major “cocktail attire” event October 1st for a nonprofit I am on the board of. It’s the largest event we’ve ever had and lots of eyes will be on me, so I want to make sure I’m dressed exactly right- I shouldn’t fade into the background but definitely don’t want to look too sexy or frivolous. The date sounds like fall but in AZ it will still be hot- plus AZ is more casual than most places, even for a defined dressed code. Does anyone have suggestions of fabrics, styles, brands? I obviously have some time before I purchase but want if anything from summer sales would be appropriate then I need to shop sooner then later. Thanks!

    • Anonymous

      Have you considered asking the staff for advice – like ask the Development Director? Development staff tend to be largely women, and they are the ones running the event and will have a good idea of what people wear.

      I work at a nonprofit in NYC, and cocktail attire for us, especially for an event during the work week, isn’t that formal – people are coming from work. I generally wear a fitted midi-length dress (I look best in sheath silhouettes) with a more interesting/revealing neckline than I would wear to work – like spaghetti straps as opposed to something wider. Assuming this event is inside, it will probably be freezing regardless of how hot it is outside, but you could avoid pastels/white. I would not wear floor length or strapless or satin.

      • AZCPA

        It is a weekend event, and will be indoor/outdoor. I have talked to the staff since I know them pretty well, but their advice is formality related (so yes, definitely no satin or floor length or beading) as opposed to “great dress” related.

    • Delta Dawn

      MM Lafleur has an orange color called Persimmon that looks like fall, but you could get a dress that is still appropriate for the heat. The Aditi comes in Persimmon, and it could be a good business-cocktail look. I think they have other dresses in that color as well. Wherever you purchase your dress, I would suggest a dress that works for summer heat with a color that works for fall.

  8. Easy summer dinners?

    We’re heading to a beach house for a week with our kids. Any suggestions for easy dinners that we can make with limited pantry items and that won’t require an hour of chopping and dicing? All the better if it can be grilled. Thanks!

    • Cat

      Think about one-pan dinners. My favorites are honey mustard pork tenderloin with fingerling potatoes and carrots (they all bake together), or chicken, fingerling potatoes, and green beans roasted over a bed of lemon slices.

    • Anonymous

      It’s not grillable, but I am a fan of pasta topped with tomatoes, mozz, and basil. Cherry tomatoes chopped in half, mozz and basil ripped by hand. Pasta is low prep.

      Burgers and hotdogs?

      Buy some Bolis, jarred pizza sauce, and toppings and grill pizzas?

      Corn on the grill is a good side.

      Kabobs are easy and you can buy them prepackaged.

    • Anonymous

      Hamburgers
      BBQ chicken with rice (dishes are just one pot for rice)
      Veggies/corn/porkchops – grilled
      Potato bar – grilled (or baked) potatoes with lots of different toppings like salsa, cheese, sour cream, guacamole
      Pasta with jar of pesto

      Take out can also be a great option. Sometimes I’ll do take out from a nice adult place for us and just let the kids have McDonalds.

      On vacation we generally just buy veggie and fruit trays to keep in the fridge for easy snacking.

      • Shopaholic

        Veggie and fruit trays are a great idea. I’m going away with some family in a few weeks and while everyone was brainstorming snacks, fruit and veggie trays didn’t even cross my mind…

    • Kk

      My favorite is grilled flanskteak- you can marinate if you want or just salt/pepper/grill. Then, slice up a baguette, put out mayo and horseradish, and make a big easy salad.

      Bonus points if you slice up a few bell peppers and a red onion, throw some olive oil and salt and pepper in, and fold it all up into a tin foil envelope- it goes on the grill with your flanksteak and can be added to the sandwiches or just as a great side dish.

      These, and a glass of wine on the back deck, feel like the ultimate summer meal to me!

    • Anonymous

      burgers/hot dogs/chicken/veggie burgers, corn on the cob, salad? You can grill fish in tin foil packets on the grill,
      too (same with cubed veggies like zucchini and yellow squash). Other than the food items themselves, all you need is buns, condiments, olive oil and salt and pepper.

    • marketingchic

      I keep it super simple. Burgers, grilled chiken, pasta with jarred sauce. My favorite thing to do in that situation is to find a local fish market and put whatever is the local catch on the grill, maybe with salad from a bagged mix. Then have ice cream and go swimming after dinner. Have fun!

    • AIMS

      Pasta & simple tomato sauce (take a bunch of garlic, saute till golden in a good amount of olive oil, add 28 ox can of tomatoes and simmer for 15-25 minutes, salt & pepper to taste as you go along, and top with some fresh basil and cheese)
      Kebabs (just bring one of those bottled marinades and let sit for a day before grilling)
      Burgers – meat, turkey or veggie + martin’s potato buns; on the side make garlic fries in the oven by cutting Idaho potatoes into thick wedges and coating with olive oil, s&p and minced garlic & roasting in oven @375 for about 30 min)
      Grilled salmon and veggies
      Scallops & asparagus
      Shrimp & potato boil

    • Baconpancakes

      Consider sweet Italian sausage instead of hot dogs, with mini sweet peppers and zucchini grilled on the side. Many grocery stores have pre-made kebabs, which you can marinate to your taste. Also fun to consider, depending on how picky your kids are – a big pile of shrimp, steamed and flavored at the grocery store, corn thrown on the grill and sprinkled with lime juice, cojita cheese, and a little chili powder. And almost anything that can be thrown on the grill is great in a taco, so a build-your-own taco bar with bagged sliced cabbage and canned salsa is easy and great.

    • nuqotw

      Chicken, rice, fruits/veggies of your choice (we like raisins, dried apricots, pine nuts, almonds, mushrooms, celery) with enough water to cook the rice in a covered dish at 350 – 400. Pull it out when the rice is done, probably after 45 minutes – 1 hour. You can use chicken broth in place of water if you want a richer version, add a little oil if you like, and any spices / herbs you might normally put on chicken.

      Baked potatoes with a variety of toppings.

    • PJ

      Whenever we have rented a beach house, there is always a crock pot. Throw some chicken breasts in the crockpot with a jar of salsa and any other seasonings you want and cook for 6 hours on low. When done, shred the chicken with a fork. You can use the shredded chicken for a couple of meals – tacos, quesadillas, baked potato topping, on a salad…

    • Swiss Miss

      Lowcountry boil– shrimp, corn, potatoes, and sausage. Add a simple salad.

    • Crockpot

      On a recent family vacation, we brought a crockpot and placed an online order with a local grocery store for pickup on the day we arrived. It all worked out beautifully. I pre-measured spices so we wouldn’t need to bring/buy full jars, and also pre-chopped and froze some of the vegetables. We made shredded chicken tacos the first day, which gave us leftovers for taco salads, nachos, etc. Also had meatless chili and cream cheese chicken.

  9. BabyAssociate

    Anyone have any experience with microneedling?My dermatologist recommended it to reduce the appearance of some subsurface acne scarring.

    • AZCPA

      My best friend just completed a course of it- 4-5 sessions? They numbed her face so it was pretty comfortable, though she said it was fiercely itchy the few days after each session and burned when she sweated during a workout. I honestly couldn’t see a difference in her skin but she said that she did, so any results are pretty subtle. I did a laser treatment for similar issues and got more dramatic results, though it was far more expensive.

        • AZCPA

          No, I’ve had a couple of other lasers – the Fraxel wasn’t recommended for my skin type and issues. I do go to a cosmetic derm practice (NOT a MedSpa), but because they focus on cosmetics they have more options in lasers and treatments than a lot of more medical practices.

    • anon

      I am going through microneedling right now. Derm suggested 3, I’ve finished my 1st one and have my second one coming up. She said she’s been getting much better results with microneedling than with Fraxel, and that the micro is especially good for skin of color, which I have. The procedure itself wasn’t bad at all, and my family noticed an immediate improvement in skin tone. Derm says that major texture changes tend to become noticeable a few weeks after 2nd treatment, so I haven’t seen a lot in the way of that yet. So far I recommend it, but obviously I can’t say for sure yet!

      • BabyAssociate

        My derm recommended 3 as well. Thanks for sharing, this is really helpful!

  10. Anon

    My boss just told me that she always rates her good employees 2 or 3 out of 5 on performance reviews. To get a 4, something would have to be award winning or a game changer that benefited all of our clients.

    Im struggling even with the anticipation; my review hasn’t happened yet. But I could really use perspective on a few questions. 1. Is this more common than I think? 2. Will these lower numbers affect future job hunting? 3. I am hopeful she will support me for a raise; will HR see the scores and refuse? Thank you for helping me sort through this!

    • Anon

      I don’t have any advice, but this doesn’t make any sense to me. Why would she give a good employee a score of 2 when that is one point away from the lowest possible score? Is she otherwise a good boss? Because it seems kind of like she’s trying to screw her employees over.

      • Anon

        She is otherwise a great boss, but HR formalities seem to be here Achilles heel.

    • Anonymous

      Future employers will only see your performance reviews if you showed them, which you clearly would never do even if they were stellar.

      It could affect your opportunities for raises and promotions with your currently employers. It depends on who is ultimately responsible for those decisions and whether they know how this particular manager scores employees. HR can refuse your raise for any number of reasons, performance reviews can certainly be one of them.

      I know of other managers who are like this and I consider them to be bad managers, FWIW. If an employee is doing stellar work, their performance reviews should reflect that. A 3 out of 5 does not indicate a stellar employee at face value IMO.

      • OP

        Thanks for reassuring me about how this will affect future job search. I’m only in a temporary position, so that’s a big concern for me.

        There is also a large written component of the review, so I’m hoping that will show anyone who looks at it the true situation. Guess I’ll see how it goes with the raise!

    • Cat

      On the raise/bonus point, find out your company’s policy. At mine, if you’re rated one of the lowest two tiers out of five, you’re not even eligible for a raise or your annual bonus.

      Your boss is nuts.

    • Lillers

      It depends on your company’s culture. Do you have any other colleagues you can ask about the rating scale? I say this because at my company, a three is good. Three means you are doing your job and doing it well. Most people get threes.

      Exceptional employees who go above and beyond the scope of their work or make a broader impact on the organization can get fours. Employees who are doing the bare minimum to get by receive twos. Rarely does anyone get a one or a five.

      There isn’t really a right way to do this but it is highly dependent on what your company has “calibrated” a three rating to be. I would ask around and try to determine if this is specific to your manager or not.

      • Anonymous

        This is what my organisation is like. 1 and 5 are never used, and it’s very hard to get a 4. Of my seven staff, one is a 4 this year and I have three each of 2/3, and that is perfectly normal and not a bad reflection on me as a manager.

    • Pompom

      I had a boss like this recently. It was a total pita. You don’t happen to be in higher ed admin in DC, do you?

    • Jen

      Agree with finding out what the HR policy is. I’ve worked for companies that require force ranking. It was the worst. I had a team of 15 or so under me, and per HR policy, only 3 of them could be 5s. That wasn’t as bad, because I could pick my rockstars. What got hard what that I *had* to have people in the 1 and 2 buckets. With a team of all good-to-great players, I had to spend hours with HR lobbying why it was I had managed to get rid of all my bad people and now only have a solid, well performing team. I had to go borrow “term credits” from other departments (ie take their terminated employee headcount, apply it to my department as the “1”). It was so, so stupid.

      It was also my problem as the department head, not individual managers’ problems. So I’d have managers on my team all want to rate their reports 4s and 5s, and I’d have to come back and say “nope, they’re all 3s. Sorry.” But I did deliver that message with a good pot of $ for bonuses.

  11. Mixtape

    My favorite bartender’s birthday is coming up. We’re the same age and like similar music so I’m thinking of making him a “mix tape” (CD or MP3) as a gift. I am not interested in him ina romantic way and he knows that (and it’s mutual) but would this gift send the wrong message or would it be cool?

    • Anonymous

      Um no – it’s not 1995 and you’re presumably not 16. Tip him extra that day. Buy him a drink (if he’s allowed to drink at work). At most if it won’t be misconstrued ask if he’d like to grab dinner/food after his shift — assuming you’re available around 2 am when he gets off.

    • Godzilla

      I don’t think it’s a weird gift at all but it’s kind of intimate for a service provider.

    • Walnut

      My favorite bar allows patrons to carry in their own food. We always bring in extra to feed our bartender.

  12. Dewey

    On a spectrum of matte to dewey, how do you like your skin to look? I have typically worn a light pressed powder to even out any color issues (I am very pale and tend to have pink/red in certain areas). I’ve gotten really into skincare lately and am trying to wear less makeup. I feel like my skin has pretty good texture, and after I have moisturized in the morning, I like the “sheen” or dewey appearance that is has. However, I still have some of the redness in certain spots. I have tried BB creams, etc. instead of powder, but I feel like they just sink in without correcting any color inconsistencies. How do I even out color but maintain the dewey appearance? Or maybe the powder is still the way to go?

    • Anon

      Liquid foundation as opposed to powder or a BB cream. Liquid founation comes in all sorts of finished and coverage amounts. Try the L’Oreal Pro Glow. Set any spots that look too dewy or might crease with the powder!

      • Anony Mouse

        Liquid foundation can be difficult if you have very pale skin. I’ve had luck evening out my skin tone using primer and Bare Minerals. I apply a little extra powder to red marks before the main layer.

        • Anon

          I’It’s not hard if you shop around. There are very few liquid foundation ranges that don’t make an almost-white shad nowadays. Just make sure you blend your foundation down your neck, and use a damp beauty blender to apply it and you are good to go.

          • ELS

            +1. I’m very, very pale and I use liquid foundation almost exclusively. I do have pressed and loose powder for days that I can’t be bothered, but the Pro-Glow in the lightest shade is a good match for me.

          • Dewey

            Thanks, but what I’m trying to avoid is a full face of foundation… that’s actually why I switched to powder. But it sounds like that may be the only option for coverage + dewey finish.

          • Anon

            Try the damp beauty blender – it sheers it out and makes foundation look super natural. Also foundation comes in different coverage. Mac Face and Body is just a sheer tint, Nars Sheer Glow is very natural

          • ELS

            Dewey, I agree with Anon — I use a damp beauty blender and don’t apply foundation everywhere on my face. I, like you, have some areas of redness (nose! cheeks! between my brows!). I find that if I use the damp beauty blender (and I splurge for the real deal, not a Real Techniques one) and a teeny bit of foundation, I end up with sheer coverage that looks natural, and blends into the parts of my skin that aren’t covered in foundation. It’s basically just enough to mask some redness.

      • Dewey

        Yes, I use Maybelline age rewind under my eyes and on any blemishes, and it’s good for that, but it feels like too much on the areas that just have a pink tint.

    • Anonymous

      Oh I’d also love to hear what products (skincare/makeup) help color correct redness/pinkness in skin tone (mine almost looks like rosacea but I know it’s not)

      • Lillers

        I second this. It’s so full-coverage yet so sheer/dewy at the same time. I don’t know how it works, but it does. Be careful if you are prone to breakouts because it does have coconut oil in it (which can aggravate acne for some).

        • DC Anon

          I don’t know how it works either! But it is seriously the best makeup product I’ve ever bought. So glad I tried it on a whim.

    • Foundation

      I use Jane Iredale pressed mineral foundation. It has good coverage but if I use a light hand it’s not totally opaque. I like that it doesn’t have the very powdery look of many powdery foundations. I spritz with mineral water to set (like Aveene thermal water) it looks even more dewy. It lasts all day and I swear my skin looks better without makeup now that I’ve been using it. I got color matched at my dermatologist and then ordered through Nordstrom.

  13. Anonymous

    In a non-work setting, when someone calls your cell, you miss the call, and they don’t leave a message, do you call back, wait for them to call back, or shoot a text saying I’m sorry I missed your call, try again?

    • Cookbooks

      If it’s a number I recognize/someone I know, I’ll call back. If it’s some number I’ve never seen before, and they don’t leave a message, I do nothing. If they really want to speak to me, they’ll call back.

    • JayJay

      Non-work? If they call, I don’t answer, and they don’t follow up with a text to say why they were calling, I don’t call them back. I may text them back later, depending on how often we text/chat.

      • CountC

        +1

        My attitude is that if it was important, they should/would have left a message or sent a follow-up text if they are the type of person who doesn’t like leaving messages.

    • Cat

      If it’s someone I know, I either call back or text back. If it’s a number I don’t know and they don’t follow up with a text or (god forbid) voicemail, I ignore.

    • Anony Mouse

      Don’t bother texting back. It’s probably spam. I get a couple of these calls every week, and usually do answer. Usually the call hangs up right away.

    • Linda from HR

      Depends. An unknown number, I leave it alone. I may Google it if I’m curious, but if they didn’t leave a message it’s probably a misdial or scam/spam call. If it’s someone I know, I text to see what’s up, but without a voicemail or text following up I generally figure it was a butt dial, or someone hitting the call button by mistake.

    • H

      I usually wouldn’t call back. If the person really needed to get in touch with me, they’d leave a message or send a text. The exception is my husband, because I know for a fact he hates voicemail and won’t leave one.

  14. Grad School Tips

    After working for 4 years, I’m going back to school for my masters (and possibly extending to a PhD). While Im happy I took a break and got work experience/beefed up my savings, I’m a little nervous since its been a while since I was a student. The program isnt super intense but I do need to keep a certain GPA to stay in the program (plus I’ll be working in a lab part time). Do any of you have (study, personal, time management, etc) tips on navigating going back to school?

    • Anony Mouse

      I’ll tell you what my PhD supervisor told me: treat your studying like a job. Create a set structure for your days and stick to it. Work a set number of hours a day and stop, whether you feel like you’re finished or not. Make a conscious effort to mentally detach once you leave the office/lab. It’s so easy to get trapped in vicious thought circles: “I feel guilty watching this TV show because there are articles I should be reading.” No, you’re entitled to take a break–in fact, you need breaks for your sanity.

    • Baconpancakes

      Change your expectations of your free time. I went back to school after working for 7 years, and it was hard to readjust to every minute relaxing or socializing feeling like it was stolen time. I just finished my degree, and have already seen my friends more in the past month than I did in the six months before.

      Another thing to remember is that the things that worked when you were younger won’t work now. You’re probably a better student than I am, but when I realized that all nighters just weren’t going to happen, it made me take regular deadlines more seriously. And again, you’re probably a better student, but many of my colleagues were in the program straight from undergrad, and I set myself apart by treating school more like a job, including dressing nicely for class, networking at all opportunities, treating professors like supervisors, and keeping in mind that the degree was to help my career. I think it worked, because I came out of the program with the job I wanted in hand.

    • Cookbooks

      Create a schedule for yourself, to provide some sort of structure to the day–day planners are your friend. This is what threw me off when I went back to school. I was used to strict deadlines and timelines and not having a lot of unscheduled time during the day. Law school has structure by way of class and assignment deadlines, but for the days I didn’t have class or any long gaps between classes, I had to set my own agenda to keep myself on task.

      Good luck!

    • Professor

      Is this a research-based program or a coursework-based program? If it’s a research program, you need to do well enough in the classes to pass (usually a B in grad classes) and not look like you’re clueless, but otherwise courses and grades are essentially meaningless. Don’t make the mistake of thinking like an undergrad and just trying to do well in classes and do what people tell you to. You should be focusing on your research, looking for opportunities to develop other skills, and learning how to be independent. Ignore all of this if your degree is mostly coursework, but in research programs, this is the biggest reason that students do poorly. Students who have taken some time off to work often do a lot better in that regard.

    • Anonymous

      Hindsight is always 20/20, so I can say I wish I had done the following in law school (echoing AnonyMounse above): treat school and studying like a full time job. Regardless of how many hours a day you’ll be in class, get to campus at 8, take an hour for lunch, then stay on campus until 5 or 6 studying/attending class. My friends who had the most success in school did just this. Good luck!

      • Anonymous

        At my law school you could totally see the difference between those of us who were 22 and only ever been in school mode vs. those who were returning to school esp after having done something all consuming like I-banking or consulting. They definitely treated law school like a job. Always at school by 8, even if the first class that day wasn’t until 9 or 10; and didn’t leave before 7-ish even if we were done at 2. Yet after the left, they were basically DONE — went out A LOT; hung out; went on dates etc. In contrast those of us who were 22 were on 24-7 — we’d roll into class at 10, I know I’d go back to my dorm when I was done around 2-ish, picking up lunch on the way, and then literally read, outline for the next day, and in the last 1.5 months of the semester consolidate outlines from previous days into the “exam outline” until 11-12 pm — maybe watching 1-2 hrs of tv a week, talking to a friend in the dorm a few hrs a week etc. I kind of liked the “always on” zone – but in the end I graduated top 10% with law review just like they did, so I’m not sure the 24-7 obsession was required.

        • CountC

          +1 to both of these.

          I worked in between college and law school and 100% treated law school like a job. It worked really well for me, I did well in school (top 10%, law review, blah, blah), and I had far less stress than most of my classmates who came straight from college. I never ever pulled all-nighter, I never stayed up past my normal bedtime on “school nights,” and I continued to participate in all of the hobbies I did prior to law school (I also added a one-night a week social sport to meet people in the area who weren’t in law school).

    • This Old Student

      I am one year into a two year part-time MBA program and 25 years out of college. I was panicked (!) but nothing has really changed except there seems to be more group work and everyone has laptops. Since I work full-time and have a family (husband and teenager), I basically cannot put off anything or read books / watch TV for pleasure. The actual classes are easier than my more technical undergraduate major so that feels like a gift. Still, it is a ton to do and I had to take a hard look at what I am not willing to give up (i.e. early morning exercise, my daughter’s sporting events, etc). Although it feels like I am barely managing at times, this has shown me a new dimension of time that will continue to be available unless I fritter it away with errands (hello internet shopping) and Netflix or whatever I used to do. My advice is to be very disciplined about how you spend your time, pay attention to your diet and exercise and align yourself with other students who are not procrastinators.

    • golda

      I would note that an MA/PhD is somewhat different than a JD, so some of these comments (along the lines of it’s your job!! work 8-6 and stop!) don’t quite ring true to me. (I have an MA and PhD in the humanities and am now a college professor). 26-ish is not late at all to be going back, so don’t worry about that. Rather than force yourself into a corporate model, I would say find what times work for you to work and proceed accordingly (e.g., I often work until 10 PM, but I don’t start at 8 AM). The Pomodoro method (work 25 min, 5 min break) is killer. I also highly recommend tracking your time to see what you’re doing/how you’re wasting time.

      Keep track of notes, etc — I highly recommend zotero and scrivener if you’ll be doing any significant amount of writing. manage deadlines. go to office hours once in the first month. And don’t let the drama get to you — students love “misery poker” (e.g. whose life is hardest) but honestly, it’s not that bad.

      • Anonymous

        Lol yes bc a grad degree in some random liberal art is SOOO much harder than a JD or MD or some other relevant professional degree.

        • Anonymous

          I don’t at all think that’s what golda was saying – though tbh, my MBA classes are definitely much easier than my doctoral coursework was (esp. with regard to how much time the work takes outside of class).

        • anon4this

          That not even remotely close to what she was saying and that’s obvious. MAs are structured differently than JDs, and it’s fair to say that some of the advice doesn’t carry over. My masters program was full time but the courses generally ran 2-8pm and took place all over campus, not in a specific building, so the advice to treat the school like an office obviously wouldn’t have applied to me. That doesn’t mean the advice from everyone who got a JD is not good or couldn’t be helpful to OP, but it’s fair for Professor to say that it may not all apply.

        • anon

          Actually, my PhD was much harder than my MD. MD just forced me to work all night more often. But my PhD was wracked with guilt, as I felt I had to work every day of the week.

          But that was not the point of the poster.

        • Anonymous

          Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Ha.

          Thanks for a hearty laugh.

          This is such an absurd, ridiculous comment that I feel terrified for how you must feel about yourself on the inside.

          Signed,

          A J.D.-haver who wished she’s gone for a humanities Ph.D.

  15. Prue

    I’m feeling very anxious today- I have a few valid reasons why, but I need to figure out how to calm down so I can get through my day, ugh

  16. cooking question

    How far in advance can I prep veggies for kebabs? BF and I are hosting another couple on Sat. and making chicken and veggie kebabs. Can I chop the veggies up on Thurs evening or is that too soon? I plan to use bell peppers, zucchini, yellow squash, and red onion. Thanks!

    • Anondc

      I think doing the prep the night beforehand or the morning of is fine – it honestly depends on your schedule. If youre marinating this then give yourself 24 hours before you plan to cook Saturday.

    • SC

      Thursday evening is probably too soon. If you’re really pressed for time, the bell pepper and onion should be OK to chop early. I’d leave the squash and zucchini until the day of.

    • Jeffiner

      I think Thursday evening should be fine. Store them in an airtight container with a damp paper towel.

  17. Face wash allergy?

    Wondering if anyone has had a similar experience so I can figure out if this face wash is causing a reaction.

    I think I’m allergic to the Burts Bees foaming cleanser…but the rash I have is just on my chin and jaw, not my full face where I’ve been using it. It also appeared about 4-5 days after I started using this. I thought skin reactions are supposed to be more immediate.

    I haven’t changed anything else in my routine, so suspected this face wash.

    • A

      You haven’t changed anything in your routine– does that include hair? When I’m reacting to a new shampoo, it frequently manifests on my chin/jaw/neck.

    • Baconpancakes

      The jawline in particular makes me think – have you interacted with anything new in your environment at all? Trips to new places, yardwork, new desk, new cleaner, etc? It may be on your hands and then on your chin when you absentmindedly touch rest your head on your hands.

    • Anon

      You could have damaged your moisture barrier. Chin andjaw are typically where this shows. Essentially your skin can’t hold any moisture in right now. Stop using the cleanser and anything exfoliating, and use only hydrating products for awhile.

    • Marshmallow

      Skin allergies are often not immediate, actually– my derm convinced me to overhaul my routine by explaining that it often takes a while for the allergen to “build up” to the point of causing a rash. So in that sense it actually may or may not be your cleanser, but it sounds like it’s the most obvious thing to eliminate first. I’d stop using the cleanser and if your rash clears up in a week or so, you have your answer. If not, I’d go to a derm for allergy testing.

    • DPT

      I get a small itchy rash on my chin when I use their blemish stick. I’ve done trial and error and that’s definitely the culprit. There must be a common ingredient we are both sensitive to.

  18. emeralds

    Please help me figure out what to do! I just found out the date of a friend from college’s memorial service, which conflicts with my SO’s cousin’s wedding celebration. I told my SO I’d go to the celebration with him, but also that I would need to hold a day open for the memorial service. The thing for his cousin isn’t an actual wedding–we already went to the wedding, this is more a secondary celebration for the B list and those who couldn’t travel to the expensive Zika destination (like all of the bride’s sisters…don’t get me started) that my SO is using as a reason to go visit friends and family for the weekend. My friend from college, on the other hand, was not super close and we only stayed in touch casually over Facebook for the last few years. But I’ve only ever regretted not going to memorial services–I’m 2 hours away and feel like it’s the least I can do to honor their memory. Doing both is not an option since the wedding is another 2-3 hours from the memorial service. Help!

    • Anonymous

      Do you know the family? Would they appreciate seeing you there? If so, I’d lean in the direction of going to the service. If no one would have a clue who I was going through the line, I wouldn’t go and would go to the celebration with my SO amd make a donation/send flowers to the service.

      • emeralds

        I met the family once, briefly, but would be going more in support of the large group of friends we share. Think sorority sister or something like that. If I don’t end up going I will 100% make a donation in their name.

    • Cookbooks

      How flexible is your SO on your attendance? Since he’s using it as an excuse to hang out with friends and family, perhaps he’d be okay if you attended the memorial service instead. Especially because you say you’ve regretted not going to memorial services.

      However, if your SO or his cousin is adamant that you make the celebration, I think you can honor your friend’s memory even without going to the memorial service. Send flowers or make a donation in his name.

      • emeralds

        I haven’t had a chance to talk to him yet, but I’m sure he’d understand if I don’t go to the wedding thing. If he ends up having very strong feelings I’d go with him and make a donation.

    • Wehaf

      Go to the memorial service. This is always a valid reason for missing a social engagement you’d previously accepted, and in this case you *already went to the actual wedding*. You will be doing a great kindness for your friend’s family, at a basically non-existent cost to your SO or his cousin. Plus, given your post, you will regret it if you don’t go.

      I am sorry for your loss.

      • emeralds

        Thanks. It was very sudden and many people i care a lot about are reeling. I think on reflection I’m leaning towards going to the service unless SO has a serious objection, which I can’t imagine that he will. I think I’d feel awful if I’m not there to support my other friends.

  19. Anonymous

    Do parents ESP moms lose all sense of embarrassment/appropriateness once they give birth?! A mommy sat there singing wheels on the bus to her 1ish yr old complete w hand motion for a 20 min subway ride. Um – you realize we can see you right?! How will you not be embarassed if someone you work w is on this train and sees you?? I think birth re wires a mommy’s brain. And no the child was not fussy or loud and did not need this rendition.

    • Anonymous

      … why should she be embarrassed about interacting with her child? Maybe some people want to live joyfully rather than sit in dead-eyed silence like a robot?

    • Anonymous

      Why would anyone be embarrassed of someone seeing them singing to their child?

      Singing to children is not a shameful activity. If I saw a coworker singing to their kid I’d join in.

    • ELS

      Why on earth would this be embarrassing?

      I’m not a mom. I don’t plan to be a mom. But I would be delighted to have seen a mom (or dad!) singing to their child.

      If one of my coworkers was singing to their kid, I would at the least smile, and maybe even join in.

    • Anonymous

      Um – bc people can SEE you and HEAR you in PUBLIC – baby talking and acting like a child? Not a great way to maintain professional standing or even appear normal to strangers on the train who can somehow manage to commute without bursting out in song?

      • Professor

        I am definitely of the opinion that all commutes would be improved by strangers on the train bursting out into song! Especially songs with hand motions.

      • Anony Mouse

        Why does she need to maintain professional standing, and why do you think playing with her child prevents her from doing so? I also disagree with your assertion that her behavior makes her appear “not normal.” This is clearly bothering you at a deep level. I’d suggest asking yourself, “Why?”

      • Baconpancakes

        She’s clearly not acting like a child, though. She was entertaining a child. There’s a huge difference. If you saw a man doing that, would you be so critical? You’d probably think he was being a good parent.

        • Anonymous

          No I would not. That would be weird too – even moreso than a woman bc he doesn’t have the “but I’m a MOMMY” excuse.

          • ELS

            But he’s a dad. And he has an equal part to play in the kid’s care and development.

      • cbackson

        …I think the comments here suggest that most people don’t think that this is embarrassing or problematic, so the problem here isn’t really this lady (who seems delightful).

      • Cookbooks

        I think people are understanding of how parents interact with their babies. Most also understand that sometimes, you do what you need to do keep them happy and occupied.

      • Aunt Jamesina

        You’re right, she should’ve maintained professional demeanor with her child and treated it as she would a coworker. If I saw my coworker shaking hands with her baby and making benign small talk about the weekend, I’d think, “good on you! Way to show that baby which role is most important in your life!”.

        How do you go about your daily life in public? And what do you do if your coworkers see you holding hands with your SO in public? Or drinking too much beer with friends at your favorite bar? Or cleaning up after your dog while taking it for a walk? Or reading a lowbrow novel on the bus? Because you can always run into coworkers.

        HEAVEN FORBID you break out of work mode when you’re outside of work.

        And, to play devil’s advocate, maybe she doesn’t even have coworkers. Not that it should matter.

        • Cookbooks

          If I saw my coworker shaking hands with her baby and making benign small talk about the weekend

          This is a hilarious image!

          • Clementine

            I love this image. Or, ‘Oh, you want cookies? Let’s talk about it at the 4:00.’

          • Mel

            “Let’s circle back on that cookie issue after all the stakeholders have weighed in, then we can run it up the chain and see if moving forward is feasible, ok pumpkin?”

          • Walnut

            We joke to the toddler or the dog that they need to submit service tickets for their requests.

      • Green Hat

        I’m gonna call troll here, but in case you’re just dim, there’s obviously a difference between an adult bursting out in song to themselves and an adult singing to their child. Perhaps you haven’t spent any time around babies, but singing is one of the best ways to keep them from crying. Would you have preferred that the child screamed the whole way?

      • Clementine

        Meh, you do you and let other people live their life. Did they forcibly make you sing? Is that a triggering song with you that you repeatedly asked them to stop and they didn’t? No?

        You mention that the child was not fussing or upset in any way. It was likely because of the parental engagement. Heck yes, I have sang ridiculous songs while stuck in traffic or otherwise in public or in waiting rooms because I consider it to be preferable to having a fussy, screaming child.

        I play on the playground and run around. I dance at outdoor concerts when a toddler asks me to. You know what? I also am a bada$$ professional who is highly respected and gets it done. I’ve run into a high level contact at the beach and you know what? It was fine. I get that people exist outside of work and respect that.

      • Anonymous

        Baby talking to a baby is fine. Interacting with a child (singing songs and accompanying hand motions) is how they learn – that is different than acting like a child. Baby talking to other adults is what is embarrassing.

      • Anonymous

        It would be weird if there was no child there. It is not weird because she is entertaining her baby. Maybe the kid wasn’t fussy or loud because she was singing. Maybe she likes interacting with her baby and bus rides are boring. Much more fun to sing and see baby happy than stand around judging others for being happy.

      • nasty woman

        Are you the same person from a few days/weeks ago who whined that pregnant women existed in the world and weren’t discreet enough for you?

    • Anonymous

      I think singing to your kid privately is sweet but agree with OP it’s a little awkward to do it in public and especially on your regular subway commute where you might bump into coworkers. I can see how this woman’s coworkers wouldnt take her as seriously after they’ve seen her singing in baby talk. I’m a mom fwiw.

      • Suburban

        Ehhh I took the subway for a decade. It’s not a mecca of decorum. Most days I was happy if no one stepped on me or told me that rapture was upon me. Really, it’s the place headphones were made for. Singing to a kid is among the most pleasant things you’ll see. I think the op is a troll fwiw.

        • Anon

          +1 Exactly. I still can’t get over the blind old woman I saw almost hit by several cars as she tried to cross the street near the metro entrance this morning. Who cares about singing to babies.

          That’s what headphones are for, or switching to another car on the train.

          • Ellen

            I think peeople are sensitive when it comes to kids. Some people love when moms are expressive, and others are not. Personaly, I would LOVE to be able to have a child to relate to, whether at home or on the bus, or wherever, b/c I find kid’s adorable, and as of now, I have No prospects for getting a man to marry and impregnate me. I do have Rosa’s kids to play with. So yay for moms who have kid’s.

            Others here do Not like it, and I think that they wish they had kids, or at least wish they had the OPTION, but do NOT, and do not like women who have what they do not have — i.e., kids, a man, etc, and lash out b/c of that thru comments on this websight about women who are DEMONSTRATIVE to their kids. I say I understnd this, but do NOT agree with this. Everyone has things to offer; be glad with what you have and do NOT demean others. That is why we are a HIVE — to coexist and move forward! YAY!!!

        • Linda from HR

          Wow, there really are people who think being a mom is unprofessional. Good to know.

      • nasty woman

        Do you think you could take her seriously if she entertained her child in a more “professional” manner, that didn’t involve baby-talk? What about a power-point presentation of Wheels on the Bus? She could hand out slides so everyone could participate. Maybe follow with break-out sessions for discussion. Thoughts?

        • Cornellian

          Let me circle up and get back to you after I touch base with some key players.

        • Linda from HR

          HA! That comment is brilliant!

          “Now as you can see on this slide, the doors on the bus go ‘open and closed.’ This critical feature of the bus allows for people to both enter and exit the bus on each stop. And this, like the wheels on the bus going round and round, is happening all through the town, providing transportation to a wide demographic of people.

      • AIMS

        I am really excited to chime in because I think I may’ve actually seen this woman!!! Or at the very least – I recently saw a woman on my subway with a baby singing a song (I think the the same one) to her baby in a carrier. Let me tell you – the only thing I thought was, “wow she seems like a good mom and that baby seems like a happy baby, and maybe I should sing more songs to my kid because that baby is loving it.” For reference – this singing was done quietly (and anyone who takes the subway regularly knows that is not always the case because someone is usually singing either for money or just kicks on pretty much every ride, and if not, someone’s headphone’s will be so loud that they may as well have just be playing music without them), it did not disturb anyone (the only people around me who seemed to notice were smiling), and what exactly is the alternative? If the kid was screaming, you know that everyone would have been giving her a nasty look for not occupying her child. So what’s the take away? Don’t commute with your kid to daycare on public transport? Don’t have kids? Look around to make sure you don’t see coworkers or clients before doing anything human?

        Honestly, when I read the first line of this question I was so with OP – I have heard “moms” share really graphic things with me that I really didn’t want to know about “motherhood” (not close friends, but random work people or acquaintances). But singing a song? Seriously? Of all the things I see on the subway every day (including parents yelling at their kids to shut the F up), what I saw was one of the best things ever. Period.

      • MKB

        I take public transit, and more than once have run into co-workers commuting with their children. They’ve done normal “I’m with my small child” things like singing to them, or reading to them, or whatever, and I’ve never even given it a second thought. So clearly not a problem.

    • Delta Dawn

      I know we’ve gotten a little troll-happy around here, but are you a troll? I can’t imagine a real person being this judgmental about parents (and specifically sexist towards mothers) and thinking it’s acceptable to share such a judgment.

      If you are not a troll… have you ever met any children? Sometimes you have to sing Wheels On the Bus. That’s just how it is. You say the child wasn’t fussy or loud, but you don’t know what would have happened if the wheels had stopped going round and round.

      Further, having a fun interaction with one’s child does not have to be a last resort deployed only to avoid a meltdown. Some people just like their kids. That mother is going to drop her child off at daycare and then go sit dead-eyed in a cubicle for eight hours like the rest of us– why shouldn’t she have fun with her baby on their commute?

        • Brunette Elle Woods

          +1000!!!! Also, there’s nothing unprofessional about entertaining your child on public transportation. I would rather hear the parent sing than the child scream.

      • ELS

        Disagree. I have tons of dad friends who sing ridiculous songs to their kids in public, dance to entertain them, and generally will do things, regardless of the setting, to delight their kids.

        If men aren’t doing this as regularly as women, I think it has way more to do with societal pressure on women to be primary caretakers and treating dads like “babysitters” than it does whether this behavior is appropriate or not.

        FWIW: Not a mom, not a “silly” person (stoic midwesterner of German heritage), and I see absolutely no problem with a parent of either gender interacting with their kid in a “silly” way in public.

        • nutella

          We don’t have kids yet but my husband treats my nieces and nephews as his own nieces and nephews and they LOVE their uncle. He works in finance and wears a suit everyday and is generally very buttoned up at work. We invited several of his coworkers, bosses, and clients to our wedding and they loved seeing him socially and seeing him as an uncle to my nieces and nephews and as a friend and family member. Since then so many of his clients have asked to see wedding photos and ask about his nieces and nephews and family they met at the wedding. In other words, people really like it when you are social and not in work-mode at social events. That’s what they are for! A subway ride isn’t a social setting per se, but it’s definitely not a professional setting, and kids don’t yet understand sitting quietly for 30 minutes, even if they can do it for 10. She was likely doing you a favor but keeping her child from screaming, whining, or running around.

          • CPA Lady

            Exactly!

            I just think of the Brene Brown research on vulnerability. It’s what makes people human and likable. It’s how we form the strongest bonds and have the deepest experiences. By not just clapping on an iron mask and a suit of armor all day every day in every situation, because WHAT IF SOMEONE KNEW THAT YOU HAD FEELINGS??? (the horror)

            I think it shows love, silliness, vulnerability, and true human connection for a mother to sing to her child in a public setting. I don’t find it embarrassing or disturbing at all.

          • Jen

            This, x1000. The best thing that ever happened for my husband’s career was his company’s Family Picnic. My stuffed shirt hard-@ss of a boss husband was running around with one of our girls on his shoulders and another in his arms. He got in the bounce house with them. He blew bubbles. He’s the COO and I had at least 5 people from his team come up and say they had no idea he had a fun side, it was so nice to see, etc.

      • anon

        Because men are the default and they are always right and how they act is always best, and we should all just do what men do because they know better than women?

      • Anonymous

        Eyeroll – dads would totally do this if they were the one corralling the kids. Or something similar.

        More dads SHOULD be doing this, not fewer moms.

      • Senior Attorney

        I actually feel like this is one of the many, many things that a man would be praised for while a woman is criticized: “OMG I saw a guy on the subway with his baby and he was singing Wheels on the Bus in his business suit and it was just amazing! What a great guy!”

        • AIMS

          There is a dad on my commute with a kid. Used to be in a carrier and now the kid is old enough to just be on his own. Having taken the same subway with him for 3 years now, you are so freaking right. All he gets is smiles and nods for being a good dad. Most women who come in with their kids at rush hour just get eye rolls for bringing a kid on a crowded subway.

      • anon

        My husband would absolutely do this.

        With toddlers, it’s all hands on deck. If it’s the difference between a calm commute (with singing) and fussiness or crying (without singing), we sing sing sing.

        I assumed the original comment was from a troll, and I’m sad to see people think it wasn’t.

      • Anonymous

        Yeah my husband would totally do this in public. And he’s a partner at a big law firm. Though I will say he would get way more kudos for it than a woman would – people think men taking care of their children is just the most adorable thing ever (total double standard).

    • Mom Here

      I’ll bite. Now that I’m a mom one thing did change. I DGAF what judgmental people like you think about me, how I’m interacting with my kid, how it is going to impact my professional career, what my kid is doing, etc. You get judgment from everyone about every decision you make, so you are 100% correct that what some loon on public transportation thinks about me singing to my kid doesn’t even register on the list of things I care about.

      • Anonymous

        +1000. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, OP, but moms DGAF what you think about them. Waaah-waaah.

        • Anonymous

          Right and we don’t care about you or respect you either. It’s not accidental that mommies move to the bottom of the pile for hiring and promotions wherever I have a say . . . .

          • nasty woman

            Alright, I’ll say it. OP, you have serious issues. Seek help. Are you struggling with some trauma?
            Your incessant use of the term “mommies” and blatant, unconditional disdain for women who have children is revealing and disturbing. As is your admission that you illegally discriminate.

            Or you’re just a troll.

          • ELS

            Whoa. 1) Illegal as all get out and 2) you sound like a horrible, bitter human being.

            Perhaps you should think about why you care so much what someone else does to pacify, entertain, and bond with their child.

            Because you really sound like a jerk. I’m glad I don’t work with you.

          • Anon

            Do you have a say? And are you typing this on a work computer? Because you are a workplace discrimination lawsuit waiting to happen and I hope someone finds you and reports you. Your IP address is not that hard to get.

          • another anon

            Who is this “we” you’re talking about? I’m not a mom but haven’t agreed with a single disturbing thing you’ve said. You’re not in some sort of non-mom club where everyone thinks people with kids are incapable. You ARE in a weird misogynist anti-woman club that has a few members, unfortunately, but there’s no “we” for you to speak of.

          • cbackson

            I’m not a mom and I sure as heck don’t respect you based on these comments. Being a parent – with all that entails, including some silly singing with your child – isn’t incompatible with being a professional. You seemed to be carrying a truckload of baggage here, and the only one who’s coming out of this looking badly is you.

          • Anon

            Well, damn. If I had known that singing on the subway (where people historically have been on nothing but their best behavior) was going to ruin my chances for professional advancement subject to the approval of Sad Internet Troll, then my daughter and I are gonna can “Wheels on the Bus” and launch directly into “Enter Sandman” next time. Maybe we’ll work some Insane Clown Posse into our repertoire while we’re at it. I mean, go big or go home, right?

          • Anon

            Well, damn. If I had known that singing on the subway (where people historically have been on nothing but their best behavior) was going to ruin my chances for professional advancement subject to the approval of Sad Internet Troll, then my daughter and I are gonna can “Wheels on the Bus” and launch directly into “Enter Sandman” next time. Maybe we’ll work some Insane Clown Posse into our repertoire while we’re at it. I mean, go big or go home, right?

          • A

            Hmm, that’s probably actually a good thing. You sound like a joy to work with.

      • Marilla

        +2

        Looking forward to having a productive briefing with my toddler daughter next time we’re out in public together. I’ll make sure to bring a presentation deck and explain that some stakeholders feel VERY NEGATIVELY about broccoli while others think it is an appropriate part of a balanced grocery store request for procurement.

    • Mel

      “appropriateness”?! Wow. if she’s a working mom like me, she cherishes every second with her kid. interacting like this is bonding. if she were checking her phone or giving the kid a screen to look at, she would be shamed for that, too. kid books last all of 2 minutes. singing is a wonderful way to pass the time.
      Also, get over yourself.

      • Anonymous

        Thing is – I don’t care if you bond with your kid or not, I do care if you’re quiet IN PUBLIC. Hand him a screen and shut it – I don’t care if that stunts his development.

          • ELS

            Yup. Anonymous sounds like the one with the problem the more the conversation goes on.

            This is the narcissistic and least empathetic sentiment I’ve heard all day. And I work as a lawyer, so that bar is pretty high.

        • Anon

          Anonymous, this is a serious question: what is wrong with you? Have you been through your lack of empathy with a therapist? Your comments are growing more and more disturbing.

        • Linda from HR

          What? Look, I’m all for general consideration for others, but I’ll take a woman talking/singing to her baby over just letting a screen entertain the kid. You know what’s more annoying than a few rounds of Wheels on the Bus? Most kids’ shows. Maybe you need a new way to entertain yourself on your commute.

        • Metallica

          Eeeeeexit light
          Eeeeeeeennnnnter night
          Taaaaake my haaaaand
          Off to Never Never Land
          Yeah

          (That was my daughter and I rehearsing for the next time we see you on the subway.)

    • Anonymous

      I swear, this has to be the same OP from the “working from home” thread a few weeks ago. I’d bet money.

      • Anonymous

        Or, someone who posts merely to incite and stir up and then watch all the comments roll in. Perhaps the regular responders on this board should make a pact not to take the bait.

      • cbackson

        Or the person from yesterday who thinks that protests are “unbecoming”…

        • Linda from HR

          Oh my, how did I miss that one??

          Seriously, we read comments like this and think “wtf is this person’s problem?” but sadly, I’ve seen so many nasty, judgmental comments around here that I can’t say I’m surprised people post nasty, judgmental things like this, thinking they’re going to get validation.

          And then, rather than try to get this commenter to maybe see it from a different angle, we jump down her throat and call her a terrible person. Like no one here has ever had an unfair thought towards another human being that they look back on and cringe at now, but maybe they were having a bad day or lacked perspective at the time.

      • Metallica

        Or the “I don’t want to see or hear pregnant ladies in public” thread from last week. Kat, you are to be congratulated–I think we have attracted the attention of some disgruntled “men’s rights” activist!

    • Anonymous

      Eh. I get you bc I don’t like noise on my commute – but yesterday a guy got on at 9 am high as a kite; last wk a guy was rolling a joint. I’ll take mom-kid interaction any day.

      • Anonymous

        Lol. I was thinking this. Given the things I see on the subway, a preschool song is the least of my concerns. And WAY more comfortable than the time I heard a mom SCREAMING at a 3 yr old – to the point where the train got quiet and then she hit him so hard so many times that you could hear the thumps on the other side of the car where I was and ppl were uncomfortably looking at each other during the hitting and as the child wailed. Yeah much worse than fun interaction.

      • Anonymous

        I confess I probably wouldn’t want to hear “wheels on the bus” for 20 minutes (aack! Song worm!) but I wouldn’t be offended and the mom would have nothing to be embarrassed about.

      • Aunt Jamesina

        Yup, after all the crazy things I’ve seen on public transit over the years, this wouldn’t even begin to register.

        • anon

          Same. I’m just glad there’s not a crazy person ranting scarily or some dude whipping out his junk.

      • Linda from HR

        I mean, are people supposed to ignore their kids on public transit? Are children still supposed to be seen and not heard? Are *moms* supposed to be seen and not heard? I like a nice, quiet commute as much as the next person, but I also know that when people ride the bus or train with people they know, they’re gonna talk at least some of the time, riding in silence can be awkward. If you, like me, don’t like hearing other people, find an entertainment method that involves sound and get some good headphones, or at least buy earplugs.

        It’s one thing to be bothered by loud, angry noises, like people arguing or yelling into the phone, but people just living their lives? Deal with it.

    • Sloan Sabbith

      How cute! That would improve my morning immensely, whether the mom was a coworker or stranger. And rather than be so incredibly upright about it, as you are, I would likely respect the mom more as a coworker because she 1. DGAF what other people think and 2. Is being a good mom.

      • Linda from HR

        She may be, but don’t call her Shirley!

        (this joke doesn’t work well in text form but I couldn’t resist)

        • Anonymous Canadian for this

          Of course Leslie Nielsen was also a Canadian. Maybe this truly is a magical land….(sorry, with all love and respect to my friends of other nationalities of course).

          • Linda from HR

            My dad is from Canada, it looks like a magical land compared to where I live. And I love where I live!

    • Linda from HR

      Sometimes people get caught up in who they’re with that they forget about their surroundings, I see it with couples and groups of friends on public transit a lot. But while it’s fine to occasionally be annoyed with things people do (we’re all human), don’t become that person who’s constantly judging and/or throwing shade at fellow commuters. People are gonna do things you don’t like, wear things you don’t like, and entertain themselves in ways you don’t approve of. Eyes on your own paper.

      Also, a woman with a baby might be trying to keep her baby calm. If she hadn’t been doing that, the baby might have been crying, would you have preferred that, or would this thread be about women who let their babies cry on the bus?

      • SC

        +1. Moms may lose their sense of embarrassment because someone is always judging. You get judgment for interacting with a child in a way that people find annoying, about letting your child cry, about disciplining your child too harshly when s/he does cry, about not disciplining your child enough. If you’re a mom seeking the approval of the random strangers around you, there’s no way to win.

        I do think it’s different for fathers. When I take Kiddo out in public, everyone has that look of, “I hope they don’t sit next to me” as soon as we enter. DH took Kiddo out for ice cream a couple of weeks ago, and someone gave him the money for the ice cream as he was fumbling for cash, someone else got up to get him napkins when Kiddo got messy, and other people gave him adoring looks and told him what a great dad he was. He is a great dad, but he gets treated like a king just for taking his kid out for ice cream.

    • PrettyPrimadonna

      This would not have embarassed me before I was a parent (if I were singing to another person’s kid, etc.) It especially wouldn’t embarass me now.

  20. Learning while in-house

    Hi everyone. I am looking for some thoughts and resources on learning corporate finance and complex transactions in a practical context when you are in house. Essentially, I would like to be able to manage financings, joint ventures and acquisitions. I’m in a tiny legal department (just two lawyers). I went in-house almost immediately after law school and didn’t have a finance background before law school. I think the fact that I don’t know much about this area will hinder my ability to advance. Of course, I don’t have a lot of free time and am in a lot of student debt so the prospect of going back to school in a formal capacity is a bit daunting.

    Has anyone been here before? I welcome any and all commentary.

    Thanks a bunch!

    • New Tampanian

      Check out ACC. It has a ton of resources for members and there are even mini-MBA programs.

    • Triangle Pose

      Do you have a membership to Association of Corporate Counsel (ACC)? If so, they have a ton of resources on this stuff – CLE webcasts, presentations, past slide decks. They update their materials and in my local chapter we have Roundtable discussions, Legal Updates, law blasts. It’s pretty cheap to join, your employer might cover it and almost all resources are free for members.

      Another option – US Practical Law Company was something I used for financings, joint ventures and acquisitions when I was at the firm. See if your law department has a membership, otherwise some of their resources are accessible from WestLaw. Great for form contracts, form documents, state by state merger documents and checklists, form clauses and what’s market for certain clauses, also great for commercial agreements.

      Yet another option – your outside counsel. I’m guessing your 2 person law department uses outside counsel, get connected with them and ask if their M&A/financing/JV practice groups have any CLE coming up or if they have training for their associates you could join. Also, subscribe to their law updates and email blasts on those categories.

    • Scarlett

      The best thing you can do is get staffed on those issues and utilize your outside counsel to learn the legal issues you might not pick up on – just being in the room is the best teacher & you can usually get materials from them/talk to them about issues while you’re working on a matter. Also talk to your business clients – chances are they’ve done this before & will bring practical issues to your attention.

  21. Anonymous

    So a friend just announced that she is planning to go to medical school. She’s currently 45. Um!? She needs to take pre reqs again and has enrolled and will finish those at 47. Then assuming she got in she’d graduate med school at 51. A “short” residency at 55 (if something like family practice). Seems like a whole lot of work (and money – not independently wealthy) for a 10-15 yr career. She has announced this expecting full support, so of course at dinner all of our friends made the right noises and I was sitting there thinking – am I the only one who views this as not a great use for money?? Again if there was trust fund wealth or whatever, fine. But this is someone who is has been concerned about retirement savings etc. — so taking a 10 yr break from that?? What would you say (if anything)? Thus far I’ve just nodded and made the right noises.

    • Anonymous

      Don’t some med schools give merit scholarships? I wouldn’t assume this is going to cost her $300K. Anyway, I don’t think it’s your place to say anything. You or I might not want to invest such a huge amount of cash and time in a new career relatively late in our working lives, but she does, so more power to her. As a friend you should just express support unless she asks for advice.

    • Anonymous

      it may be hard for her to get a residency at all. i’m not sure how the age discrimination statutes would apply, but pretty sure that residencies wouldn’t want to waste a spot on someone who will practice for 20 years instead of 40.

      • Anonymous

        IDK bc I’m not an employment lawyer, but I always thought of residency as being like a judicial clerkship. Judges can hire whoever they want to clerk for them, can ask any questions they want etc. and they are “above” the discrimination rules. May not be such a wide latitude for residencies since medical centers are major employers, but I feel like a lot of “soft” factors can come into play aside from just med school grades. It’s not like they have to specifically ask – how old are you. Just by graduation yrs and looks, they’ll know she’s 50. Aside from the length of her career, I can see a residency director (who will be about her age) saying – um she’s not going to be able to be on her feet/on call for 18 hrs at a time, nor will she keep up with the 26 yr olds. Plus there are boards taken during residency — if she is exhausted from just the patient care part of it, how will she find time to study for boards — board passage rates are a stat that reflect on residency programs so they want to make sure people pass.

      • MD

        Residency has nothing to do with one’s actual medical job, and I think she’d have a great shot at residency because of all the life experience – med schools and residencies now like students who are older or from nontraditional backgrounds. And there’s a lot of employed physician options like clinics, federally qualified health centers, urgent care, etc so that age doesn’t really matter if you’re not establishing your own practice. I personally couldn’t imagine going through med school and residency again at this age! I knew some older students – a couple even older than your friend – but they were independently wealthy and were doing a 2nd career for personal reasons. She still has a lot of hoops to jump through so things may change with time. It’s hard to be a supportive friend sometimes, but I try to remind myself that just because it’s not what I’d do does not mean it’s the wrong choice.

      • Torin

        People who get their MDs out of the country and practice for years have to re-do their residencies if they come to the US and want to be doctors here. Which is to say, there are plenty of older residents.

    • Anonymous

      You say that you support her in her decision because you are a friend.

      Why does this bother you so much? Why does it matter to you what she does with her money? Maybe it’s a bad idea, maybe it’s not. So what? Now, if she makes the decision and three years from now is complaining non-stop to you about it, then you can choose not to engage, but for now, stop judging her and, if you are truly her friend, be supportive.

      • Anonymous

        It matters bc I’m a friend? Of course I’m not looking to stop her or anything – that’s not my place. But I do think good friends point out (once) if they think something is a mistake/not well thought out etc. And then if she wants to pursue it, I’ll be a friend and support it. I just think it’s an odd use of money for someone without independent wealth who just 2 yrs ago was worrying about retirement savings, mortgage etc.

        • January

          You may be able to gently ask her, one-on-one, to help you understand why she wants to do this, and perhaps to help you understand how she plans to pay for it. But even assuming she has no real basis for going to med school other than a mistaken belief that the money she’ll earn as a doctor will solve her financial problems, there isn’t all that much you can do to make her rethink this path. And maybe she’s hoping to fulfill a long-held dream of hers.

        • Anonymous

          Nah. Only if you are asked for advice or an opinion. It sure seems like she’s excited about this and wants to try to persuade her not to do it. If I was really excited about something new I was going to do, and one of my friends told me she thought it was a bad idea from the get go without me asking for her opinion, I certainly would think twice about what I shared moving forward. I’m an adult. I get to make and own my decisions, even the bad ones.

        • Torin

          I think you can, as you say, gently ask her, once, if she’s sure she and afford it and it’s worth the opportunity cost to her. If she says yes, believe her and drop it, even if she doesn’t explain herself in any more detail than that.

    • tribble

      Depends on your relationship with your friend. Personally, I would say something (once), but my friends know to expect that of me. Probably why I tend to have a few close friendships rather than lots of acquaintances. It’s not your place to have some kind of come to Jesus with her, but unless she’s a very casual acquaintance, I don’t think it’s out of line to express some concern to her one-on-one.

    • AIMS

      A family friend did something like this at a similar age. It took him forever to get through and he is still in the middle of taking some boards (anesthesiologist ), which has been tough on his spouse because its been maybe 10+ years of stress and exams, but he’s very happy, he makes good money doing contract work while he waits to pass the boards (although he does have massive loans), and I think in some ways the age helps because patients assume he is way more experienced than he actually is.

    • Aunt Jamesina

      The husband of my mother’s good friend decided to go to law school in his mid thirties, then med school in his forties, and then went back to practicing law in his late fifties!

    • Linda from HR

      It might not seem like the smartest idea to you, but I would trust that she’s thought of everything you’re concerned about and came to the conclusion that it was the right choice for her. If it’s not, I’d trust her to handle the consequences. Maybe it’s something she’s secretly thought of for years and doesn’t wanna wake up at age 80 regretting not becoming a doctor.

    • SC

      I understand the concern. But it may not be as “bad” as you believe. Your friend can pursue scholarships and look at in-state tuition. She can moonlight during residency. After residency/fellowship, compensation can be very good in many specialties, to the point that loans can be repaid within a year or two if you continue to live frugally. It’s a long, hard road, but it’s not a terrible idea, and there’s no reason not to be supportive.

      Or your friend could start taking the prereqs and realize that it’s not for her. Or she could decide she wants to go back to work sooner and train to be a PA or CRNA or something else in the health care field. Just be supportive.

    • Metallica

      Actually, most residency programs just care about warm bodies that don’t kill other warm bodies, so I don’t think this will be a problem for her. As a physician myself, I would make sure she was walking in with eyes open, especially with regard to how cr@ppily most women are treated in medicine at times. And she doesn’t actually have to practice medicine–there are plenty of intriguing non-clinical jobs for MDs out there. I’ve had several “older” medical students and my experiences have been generally positive. Also, they tend to be abused less as students because attendings know these folks have already had a career elsewhere and therefore a much more accurate grasp of how they should be treated in the workplace.

    • Scarlett

      I feel like this is the part where it’s time to explain that life is a lot longer than you think it is & you’re not dead just because you’re in your mid-40s. Even under your timeline, that’s a long time to work and it’s really important to be fulfilled by what you do. I’ve known plenty of people who started second or third careers in their 40s/50s/60s. Point is, it’s never too late. Also to the job concerns – you’d be surprised how valuable life experience can be, and there’s no guarantee that a 20-something is going to have a 40+ year career in the same field either. Anyway, I’d personally, enthusiastically support someone who wanted to make this change.

    • Anonymous

      Meh. I’m 37 and just finishing a year of pre-reqs for nursing school*. I’m fortunate enough that I only need to work for 10-15 years as a nurse before retiring early. I will be 39 before passing the nursing exams and starting. I know of a number of nurses who started in their 50s.

      Before I announced my decision, I did obsess over retirement planning. I have a feeling your friend has been considering making a change for a long time.

      I think if Kennedy and Ginsburg can be SCOTUS justices into their 80s, there is no reason to delay a career change because “OMG I’m going to die in 40 years.”

      *Nursing school is not medical school and doesn’t have a long residency requirement.

      • Never too many shoes...

        Congratulations to you. Sincerely.

        It is never too late to find something your “thing”, be it career or love or whatever else.

  22. Portland tips?

    Suggestions for a day and a half in Portland this weekend? It’ll be me (mid 20s) alone.

    I like outdoorsy things, but also enjoy exploring unique places to eat, and of course coffee shops. I’m usually not one for museums, but I do love anything sciencey. I heard about the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry– is this mainly for kids or are there interesting things for adults too?

    I don’t know where I’m staying yet, but I need to figure that out ASAP. Open to cheap hotels or possibly maybe a hostel. Suggestions welcome.

    • cbackson

      I went to Portland alone and loved the Japanese Garden and the Chinese Scholar’s Garden (they’re very different and both wonderful).

    • Curious

      A friend was just there last weekend and sent beautiful pictures of an experimental rose garden with 1000 varieties of flowers. I don’t have the name handy but it sounded like it would be easy to look up.

    • ArenKay

      Did a trip to Portland recently, and recs for Japanese Garden, Chinese Scholar’s garden, and Rose Garden are great. Rose and Japanese Garden are both in Washington Park, which is on the west side of town (easy to get to from the light rail). Wash Park is huge and green, and we could have spent all day there. If you do those, stop at Elephant Deli first (it’s just down the street from the park) and get picnic supplies.

    • Anonymous

      Yes! Go to Forest Park in NW Portland and walk the beautiful trails for as long as you want, or as short. Enjoy walking and looking at boutiques on the streets known as “NW 23rd.” Pick up ice cream at Salt and Straw. Definitely look at the OMSI website to see if the current exhibit is up your alley. Good attractions for adults, if you’re willing to pay extra for the fun 3D surround theater experience, or are interested in the exhibits.

      There’s so much good coffee in Portland. Try sticking to coffee shops that roast their own beans, and get recommendations from your hotel/host. I don’t know much about hotels/hostels. There are a few hostels, to my knowledge. Most visitors use AirBnB. Pick a fun neighborhood and try to stay there – SE is good for young, semi-grungy atmosphere (often residential with bars mixed in), some really fun districts in NE (Alberta!), and the appeal of NW is the NW 23rd area, and the Pearl District (expensive, urban, great shopping and Powell’s bookstore). Pick your restaurants based on walkability! So much to choose from. Have fun.

  23. Functional Medicine?

    What do you think about Functional Medicine? I know two people with autoimmune disease who turned to functional medicine doctors and they are telling me they feel better without taking the traditional medications. They are urging me to see a functional medicine doctor and just forget about my endocrinologist (I have thyroid problems).

    I am very skeptical about this because I do not know what level of education and training these “doctors” have. How hard is it to get your doctorate in functional medicine? For those of you who are doctors, how does the medical profession view this new trend?

    • Lillers

      From someone with a healthcare background, it’s pretty much rubbish. There isn’t any sound science behind a lot of the principles. They don’t have any specific training. Many “functional doctors” are nutritionists or chiropractors.

      If you are interested in complementary therapies, I would find an endocrinologist who has an interest in integrative or complementary/alternative approaches.

      • anon

        +1

        Agree completely.

        Please do not turn to such an untrained person for treating your thyroid problem.

        I don’t want you to turn into a stroke or atrial fibrillation patient or one of the many complications of poorly controlled thyroid I have seen because someone turned to “chinese herbs” or “supplements” that contain who-knows-what and may or may not have stopped taking their thyroid medication.

        Signed,
        MD

      • pugsnbourbon

        From what I understand – and I may be completely off base – there’s no specific criteria for attaining a “functional medicine” certification/degree, so the quality of a practitioner is going to vary widely. You might have an experienced MD who can also advise on practical lifestyle changes, OR you might get someone two years out of college who has read the entire GOOP website a dozen times and thinks crystals are a thing. As Lillers said, there’s no science behind it.

        I would absolutely not give up your endocrinologist.

    • autoimmune patient

      I also know people with autoimmune diseases who benefited from CAM approaches (especially dietary interventions). And I confess I am impressed by the transformations I witnessed in their lives. On the other hand, I’ve had mixed success and significant regrets.

      Based on my experience, I believe it’s crucial to see an actual MD or OD (i.e,. someone who can prescribe medication) for thyroid issues especially.

      I also recommend MDs because taking insurance is a good sign! There are very serious quality control concerns with chiropractors and other loosely certified people working in healthcare. Medicine is just catching up to the needs of autoimmune patients for whom rheumatology is not relevant, and I believe there are both predatory and well-meaning but unqualified people taking advantage of this gap. If someone didn’t go through med school, how inaccessible is their expertise? Could you catch up with them re. your issues in a few afternoons of reading?

      So I am unwilling to consider approaches that are complementary or alternative to scientific medicine or that are merely placebos. But I am willing to see a MD who is open to approaches and therapies that have some theoretical basis and some clinical success, but which are currently under-researched or controversial (e.g., vitamin D supplementation). I think this mindset is actually more scientific than the mindset of MDs who cannot deal with any patient (or lab results) that diverge from the textbook presentation.

    • Stati

      I’m a primary care physician. When I see a referral from, or patient being primarily treated by, a naturopath or functional dr, I immediately either roll my eyes and/or suspect this is going to be a difficult patient. I assume that the patient has an extensive medical history and has seen a lot of physicians or other professionals and has not gotten an answer or relief from their problems. I assume this patient will immediately distrust me and my conventional medical training. I know that is not a positive attitude to have, but it’s my honest knee-jerk response, which is what you’re asking for. FWIW, more often than not, experience in the clinic has taught me I’m right. Regarding outcomes, I’ve seen both: patients do well, and patients do very poorly due to delayed or misdiagnosis and incorrect treatment.

      I have not researched the training requirements for functional medicine, but I believe it’s a certification. I’ve seen a chiropractor advertise himself as a functional doctor, and I’ve also seen a MD list himself with functional medicine credential.

      I’m not against alternative medicine; I see a Chinese medicine dr for acupuncture weekly. I have a patient with cancer who claims she gets great relief from singing bowls (I don’t know exactly what this is, but I was sad to hear it didn’t involve drugs of any kind :) ). I think a strong relationship with your PCP is paramount so that you can get to the right specialists. And if you choose to augment with some sort of alternative or eastern medicine, that’s ok — but make sure the whole team knows. I would never trust alternative or eastern medicine as my primary source of medical care. Those who disagree with me will blame my brainwashed medical mind — so be it.

      • Functional Medicine

        Thank you all for your replies.

        I believe lifestyle plays a huge part in treating autoimmune disease but to cut medication prescribed by your specialist MD is dangerous. I feel like its almost a cult about dietary restrictions, juicing, etc. Don’t get me wrong. I feel awesome when I eat healthy and take care of myself. But I do not think that gluten and dairy (these are one of the things I heard these “doctors” urge people to give up) will kill me if I don’t have Celiac or lactose intolerance. Plus what is the difference between the vitamins and powders they sell and the ones I can buy from Amazon? They also claim to do additional blood reading (to screen for vitamin deficiencies) that your MD would not do..

        Anyway, what source of medical advice do you recommend (besides my PCD and specialist)? Harvard Medical studies? Any reliable websites you recommend for the layperson who wants to get educated about a particular topic?

        Again, thank you (especially doctors) for your replies.

        • Stati

          So if you would come to my house, you’d see issues of JAMA in the bathroom and bedroom, but the truth is that I rarely get the chance to read them. For the majority of my research and everyday looking things up, I use a subscription based service called UptoDate. My practice pays for it. It’s an excellent place to start — just ask your doctor if they have it and if s/he can print you off the relevant topics for your diagnosis. UptoDate has articles intended for medical providers and articles/handouts that are geared toward patients. The patient ones are a great place to start and are pretty comprehensive (usually above your standard 6th grade reading level). The provider articles have all of the references, so if something really interests you, you can look at that specific citation in more detail. Caution: the provider articles are often too comprehensive and TMI, even for me! So, I would caution anyone not to get too wrapped up in how dense they are and to discuss anything that gives you questions or pause with your doctor.

          UptoDate is kind of pricey (I think it’s $800 just for an individual subscription), so if your doctor doesn’t have it, sometimes hospital libraries do. Even the rural community hospital near me has a patient library (it’s less of a true library and more like a dingy office with one ancient PC and some brochures from 1995 in it)…but it has free access to UptoDate for patients.

          If I had a patient ask me for evidence-based sources, rather than grill me on why I say this when Dr. Google says that, I think I might just pass out from happiness. I’d be more likely to spend the extra time to *teach* that patient rather than just simply answer their questions.

          • Functional Medicine

            Thank you so much! I already found some interesting articles in JAMA.

        • autoimmune patient

          I don’t know if it’s what a doctor would recommend, but I like Medscape partly because it has a comment section where you can see the reactions to news about research.

          I am also really concerned when people quit meds, though it really depends on the med and what it’s for. For example, some diabetes medications don’t perform better than lifestyle changes in studies, but they are recommended because most people won’t make the lifestyle changes. If I’m willing to make the lifestyle changes, then I can get similar results without the risks posed by the drug (if it’s a drug with significant risks–some are riskier than others).

          Please be kind about gluten. I know you are planning to do your own reading, but researchers are currently studying gluten-sensitivities that aren’t Celiac (but which still damage the intestines and produce autoimmune reactions elsewhere in the body). Don’t assume that people don’t have Celiac just because they aren’t diagnosed. Celiac disease usually goes undiagnosed for many years, and only a fraction of the number of Celiac cases that science estimates exist are actually diagnosed by doctors, so estimated millions of Americans who supposedly don’t have Celiac may well have Celiac anyway. Autoimmune patients are more likely to have Celiac than the general population, but our symptoms are more easily explained away since we are already chronically ill. A restrictive diet that has to be followed 100% of the time is a serious burden, whatever positive spin we sometimes try to put on it.

          If someone does have undiagnosed Celiac or the other immune reaction to gluten that no one but researchers is testing for, they may well have vitamin deficiencies–and these deficiencies can cause symptoms before things are bad enough to show up on the usual lab tests. I’m not sure it’s worth it to run additional tests vs. just doing a trial of the vitamin, and I certainly wouldn’t buy vitamins from a doctor that could be bought elsewhere, but addressing a vitamin deficiency can make a night-and-day difference for people who were not feeling awesome from clean living alone.

  24. Anon

    Favorite business card holders? I’m just reaching a point in my career where I actually have them and exchange them and have the need to keep track of them. (I was maybe a little too excited when I got my new business cards with my fancy-sounding title on them.)

  25. AZCPA - Paging In House Houston

    Hey, saw your post asking about CoolSculpt from the other day – if you want details, email me at malkiyyah13 at the mail of G.

  26. Comical

    This dress has “a nice high V-neck “? Thanks for the laugh. This would be so far from work appropriate on anyone above a C.

    • anon

      So much J. Crew clothing is designed without “anyone above a C” in mind.

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