Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
Looking to update some basics? Nordstrom Rack has SO many options right now. If you’re the type of person who finds something she likes and buys it in every color (raises hand), you’re in luck — this short-sleeved sheath from Maggy London comes in eight different colors.
I’m particularly partial to the “midnight teal” but probably would get more use out of the black or navy.
The dress is $59.97 at Nordstrom Rack and comes in sizes 0–14.
This Calvin Klein sheath dress is a plus-size alternative; it’s $99.98 at Dillard’s and available in 14W–24W.
This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!
Workwear sales of note for 9.20.23:
- Nordstrom – 28,000 markdowns, and big beauty sale! Cardmembers earn 3X the points through 9/24!
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off all sale styles
- Banana Republic – Up to 40% off sale styles
- Banana Republic Factory – 50%-70% off everything + extra 20% off
- J.Crew – 40% off fall finds
- J.Crew Factory – 50%-70% off entire site, and extra 70% off clearance with code!
- Ministry of Supply – Shop fall workleisure, 25% off sitewide.
- M.M.LaFleur – Sale on sale, extra 10% off
- Shopbop – Up to 70% off, 1000s of new styles added
- Talbots – 25% off your entire purchase
- Zappos – 18,500+ markdowns for women!
This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Workwear sales of note for 9.20.23:
- Nordstrom – 28,000 markdowns, and big beauty sale! Cardmembers earn 3X the points through 9/24!
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off all sale styles
- Banana Republic – Up to 40% off sale styles
- Banana Republic Factory – 50%-70% off everything + extra 20% off
- J.Crew – 40% off fall finds
- J.Crew Factory – 50%-70% off entire site, and extra 70% off clearance with code!
- Ministry of Supply – Shop fall workleisure, 25% off sitewide.
- M.M.LaFleur – Sale on sale, extra 10% off
- Shopbop – Up to 70% off, 1000s of new styles added
- Talbots – 25% off your entire purchase
- Zappos – 18,500+ markdowns for women!
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Ellen
This is a great buy, Elizabeth! There is a Nordstrom Rack up in White Plains, so the next time I visit Rosa, I will go there when I go to the Mall. At $59.95, I can buy 2 — one @ size 2 and one @ size 4. That way, when I am bloated, I can wear the size 4. Does anyone else have dresses in 2 sizes like me? I find that I have given away all of my size 0’s, and am now buying size 4’s to replace them as my dresses get smaller. Dad says I can get a deduction for most of them b/c the dresses do not show any wear. He is very smart and that is because he is my dad! YAY!
Anon
Maybe someone knowledgeable about immigration law and social services knows how this works? An Afghan refugee family has 2 parents and 3 kids under 5, one of whom is an infant. The mom was just killed by a drunk driver (state insurance in my state is only $50K). What is able to be done for a surviving dad with no family in this hemisphere who is a refugee with no one to help care for his children while he learns English and looks for work? Catholic Charities and a local refugee support group are involved but a bunch of us working moms were just so upset yesterday for the family and how it will go for them in the US.
Anon
i have no idea, but that is just absolutely terrible and totally breaks my heart. that poor family and those poor kids. they’ve already been through more in their short lives than most of us will ever go through and then this.
Anon
Go fund me or a year long meal train?
Aunt Jamesina
Oh, how terrible! That poor family. I’d definitely contribute if you post a Go Fund Me.
No Face
Call the local refugee support group or Catholic Charities to ask how you can help. I happen to know several families who immigrated as refugees, and the organizations who do the work are very good and knowledgeable.
Anon
Thanks! There is a gofundme and a lot of care directed towards this family right now. It is just so terribly sad.
Insurance
This is a very sad story.
It’s also a reminder to all of us to purchase as much insurance as you çan afford. It is to protect you and your family when you are hurt or killed by a person who is underinsured. It could happen to any of us.
NY is one of the states that only requires 50k of auto insurance. Of course that is nothing if you are seriously injured. And remember, your health insurance will claw back any of the settlement to cover the medical expenses.
I learned always hire a lawyer for any significant accident/injury. You often have to fight with your own insurance company to get what you deserve.
Anon
Agreed — it is better, financially, to die at the scene with just EMS there than to be taken to the hospital, treated a bit, and die there.
LSC
If they are involved in any religious community, perhaps the leadership could put out a call for assistance with chlidcare?
Anonymous
Crime victim compensation in the state may be able to provide additional support. https://ovc.ojp.gov/
GrapeFruitLaw
Yesterday I had my first 6 month performance review. My boss was in the hall having a conversation at our appointment time, and as I passed by they said they would be in the meeting room in a moment. In the meeting room they had already set their notes/phone/coffee on the table, and unfortunately my eye landed on a note on the front page. It said “suck up” and was then scribbled out.
During the actual meeting I got more positive feedback than I expected, and some very fair areas to improve. My boss said during the positive portion that there’s no way I could be more collegial and that’s a plus. I try to roll with things and brush stuff off instead of getting hung up, but I definitely lost sleep last over that stupid note that I wish I had not seen.
During law school I was standoffish and not very social. I have tried to be more outgoing since graduation and have done that by occasionally bringing baked goods to the office, I make small talk, I learn the names of our security/custodial folks. Is this being a suck up? The whole thing is just living rent free in my head, and I’m hurt because I thought I was doing a good job of improving an area of my social interaction skills where I had previously been lacking. I’m not obsequious at work, I’m not a flatterer, and I’m not spineless. This stray, undelivered comment has me feeling overly sensitive, confused, and a little hurt, because I used to think my boss thought well of me and I really like my boss. Just needed to express this to the hive, as I’m too embarrassed to even tell my husband. I’d love anyone’s take on the situation. Should I alter my conduct? Should I tell my boss I saw the note? If I’m actually doing something wrong, I want to know.
Anonymous
That was s*xism and I’m sorry.
anon
Yup. This is what you get for sidestepping the criticism of not being “approachable” or some other BS. Behave according to your own values; if you’re happy with yourself, and it sounds like you should be, f them if they can’t see that.
Anon
Yes this. I’d rechannel the hurt into a bit of anger, if anything.
anonshmanon
I’d only continue with the baked goods if your peers also bring them occasionally. I’d not change anything else that you do. The scribbled out comment was extremely unprofessional, and had no place in a work review. That being said, it’s understandable that you would be unsettled by it. I cross my fingers that you can put it out of your mind soon and pretend you never saw it.
MND
I completely get where you’re coming from, but also think you need to move on as best you can. The fact that he didn’t say it may mean he think it’s inaccurate, or maybe he was writing about a different issue, or ??? Your interactions sound totally appropriate, and I think being enthusiastic/friendly/outgoing when starting a new job is totally normal and common.
Anonymous
Literally pretend like you didn’t see it and try to let it roll off of you as well as you can. There was a reason it was scribbled out. It may not have even had anything to do with you. You got a good review, you have a good relationship with your boss, and sounds like you’ve successfully made a change you wanted to make after graduation– you’re doing great! Now is the time to dive into those confidence reserves and forge ahead. Keep improving your work and being you :)
TDS
Maybe it was a note to himself to suck it up & do performance reviews even though he hates them? Maybe the person before you complimented his tie 45 times and he was annoyed & wrote down “suck up” because it wouldn’t be appropriate to say it out loud?
Nora
That was my first read – bosses often don’t like doing performance reviews either and it was a comment to himself.
Anon
Same. That was my thought. It is very possible it doesn’t have to do with you.
Anon
I would almost take solace in the fact that it was on the front page facing up? Like, unless the boss is a moron or had a HUGE lapse in judgement, he would not have left that out and facing up if it was really about you, knowing you were coming in, so maybe the fact that he did means it really did have nothing to do with you as it didn’t occur to him to hide it? My notebooks are filled with the most random one word and two word phrases that mean something to me at the time but no one (even myself, later) would have no clue what they were referencing. Often about completely different subjects/meetings on one page.
As an aside though, I agree I would maybe reassess the bringing baked goods if others don’t do that. Not because I think they make you look like a suck up, but there is something gender-y about it in the work place I don’t love.
Ginger
How do you even know this was directed at you? He may have been scribbling a note to himself or while on the phone. Be aware, but don’t get too deep. It may have nothing to do with you.
Cat
I would try my best to put it out of your head. Being friendly isn’t being a suck up.
However, I’d recommend quitting it with the baked goods regardless.
Anon
+1
I have a rule to never bring in baked goods, or make other similar gestures.
Everything else youre doing is literally fine – it’s GOOD to know things like every custodial worker/security guards name!!
Anon
Don’t say anything. Wanting reassurance about being a suck-up is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I’d stop the baked goods, that’s very gendered behavior. Everything else seems completely reasonable.
Z
Ok but like, what’s wrong with doing a gendered behavior? She might also just really like to bake (I personally posted here a few weeks ago that I’m sad that WFH means less baking because I used to bring stuff to work) and bringing goodies to work is a good way to meet people and chat casually.
Marie
I am sorry you saw a petty comment like that. Being respectful and courteous to staff, including security and custodial workers, is something you should not change and is not being a suck up. While many lawyers can be snobby and look down on these other professions in their office, that is a them problem, and staff should be treated to respectfully, rather than condescendingly. It is unfortunate that they can be surprised when this happens, due to many attorneys behaving badly. I have received comments from staff thanking me for being respectful toward them, where other attorneys aren’t, and I just think that is unfortunate. As to bringing in baked goods for the office, unless baking is something you enjoy or you have leftovers from an event, I don’t think this is necessary. That being said, keep being polite and courteous to everyone regardless of level, and let this slide off your back.
Anon
How do you know the comment was even about you? What if boss was referencing someone who was relaying their opinion of you? It was crossed out. Move on.
Anon
Oh gosh, I am so sorry. It does not sound like you are doing anything wrong and you seem like a great person! All of the things you are doing sound fine. I am sorry you saw that note – it could have been your boss was having a bad day or in a bad mood. I would just try to move past it. My boss once told me in a review that people found it hard to get to know me on a personal level and some didn’t even know I had kids. I didn’t even try to change things because that is just my personality so I think you are doing great trying to address something like that on your own – making an effort does not make you a suck up. Keep your head up!
Anon
Agree with others except I don’t see a problem with sometimes bringing in baked goods. I do the same thing as do others in my dept and I always appreciate seeing a surprise box of donuts lol!
TCF
I think you heard everything you need to hear when your boss said your collegiality was a plus. If they really thought you were a suck up, they would have reframed that as a negative. I understand the temptation to fixate, but I would not say anything and would move on – focus on the words your boss actually said in the review. You sound like a kind, conscientious coworker to me!
Anonymous
+1
Anon
If suck up is the worst thing they can say about you, take it as a win. That’s just me though.
Anon
Your boss should keep his performance review notes with him and not leave them in empty conference rooms. What a stupid, rookie move. Anyone could have walked in and read his notes on your performance. I’m more taken aback by the fact that he did that than what he said in the note.
In any case – you can’t do anything about what he wrote or the fact that you saw it. I agree with the person who said, if this is the worst thing anyone can say about you – it definitely could be worse. This would live rent-free in my head too, if it happened to me, but he didn’t say anything about it, and it’s not really an actionable opinion from him. If someone came to me and said “GrapeFruitLaw is great, gets all her work done, is a team player and goes the extra mile but I think she’s a suck up” I would look askance at that person and tell them to grow up. If you can take anything positive away from the note (which I also agree may not actually be about you), look at it as, you have made efforts to cultivate people and become known as a friendly person. That is only a negative for people who don’t put the same effort into relationships. Hold your head high and take a lot of deep breaths and move past it. I know it hurts now, but later in life this will morph into a funny story to tell, most likely. This too shall pass.
Anon
I think this is all really great advice and well said!
GrapeFruitLaw
I’ve had my nose to the grindstone for the last few hours and just came back to see all of your supportive thoughts and advice–thank you. Just offering some clarifications: I know the note was about me because I was the only review that day. Also, everyone is assuming my boss is male–I intentionally used a gender neutral pronoun, but my boss, and in fact most of my office, is female. It is a very small office and fairly liberal. During my hiring interview we connected over being foodies, and (I think) she knows I bring in baked goods occasionally because I like to bake and can’t eat it all myself!
All this other context is probably why I felt a little blindsided. I guess it’s true — you don’t actually want to know what people really think of you. The commenter who advised I should just pretend I never saw the note is probably giving really good advice, it’s just hard to follow. I’ll try!
Vote
Thanks for the additional info.
Actually, I assumed your boss was female. In my limited experience with female bosses in my area of academia, I have seen the most sexist/petty comments from them behind the scenes. It is really depressing. It often stems from insecurity on their part, I have observed.
I agree with others that if this is the worst thing she can say about you, you are a star, and she is insecure and probably jealous that you come off as a more likeable team player than she does!
Anonymous
I had assumed it was internalized s*xism fwiw.
Anonymous
I would assume that the scribbled-out note was something he’d written while on an annoying call with someone else and had nothing to do with your review. Not that I ever write insults in my notebook to avoid saying them out loud, of course.
Senior Attorney
…and now I’m mad because 20 years ago at my performance review, my boss said I was outstanding in all areas “with the possible exception of ‘brings treats to the office.'” Grrr…
Hang in there, OP.
Anonymous
This is ridiculous. You snooped in your boss’s notebook, saw a crossed-out phrase, assumed it was directed at you, and are now going to ignore the fact that you got a great, constructive review?
Anonymous
Found the manager!
Anonymous
I may be in Cairo for a day in the coming weeks. Is it safe to be a solo woman visiting? Any suggestions for sites to see and women led tour guides?
Anon
Oooh – lucky! I haven’t been there in decades, but I would imagine it would be safe for you to tour around with a guide, and if you want a woman guide to feel more comfortable I am sure one is available. Assuming you’re staying at an international-caliber hotel they should be able to set you up with guide and driver without any issues. And since those types of jobs are coveted, the guide and driver will be heavily motivated to treat you well and respectfully. In terms of activities, horseback riding near the pyramids at sunset used to be a lot of fun
anon
Assuming you are non-Egyptian appearing and don’t speak Arabic, I would not suggest taking on Cairo as a single woman. No no no.
My (male) partner and I did 5-ish days in Cairo by ourselves in Feb 2019 and it was really, really hard overall. The timeframes for the visits are totally different, but we did a day in Islamic Cairo (all the mosques/etc.) with lots of walking and Ubers – hassled endlessly as a general rule. I wish we had hired a guide to smooth the way. We did a bit less than a day of Christian Cairo – much less hassling, very “corporatized”. Going out to the pyramids by yourself is doable – again, took an Uber, knew the scams to look out for, and have an idea of what you want to see. The ticket options can be confusing.
I’m not sure if the Egyptian Museum has moved into its new home. It was still near Tahir square when we went. That is doable on your own, but back then, unless you have a guide book you will have no idea what you are looking at. It’s not like a well-funded museum with useful descriptions/etc. I also have a vivid memory of sitting in this itty bitty office near the front of the museum while some poor state employee spent 90 minutes creating our “Cairo pass” tickets (which, naturally, various guards in Islamic Cairo tried to reject because the photo “didn’t look like me” until they got a tip/bribe.).
We hired a private driver/guide to take us our to Sakkara/the other older pyramids I’ve forgotten the name of. Great day trip, and the private driver was great. In general, most people I privately contracted with – the families we stayed with in Cairo/Luxor/Aswan, every driver/guide – all outstanding. And regular Egyptians are happy to leave you alone or be helpful. BUT, all the other random “tourist industry” people you must interact with or walk by made it very hard in Feb 2019.
Also there was a mosque bombing (a few hours after we left the mosque), a tourist bus bomb on the way to the pyramids (the week before we went), and a serious train accident (the day after we took the same train). I don’t know how things are now, but again, it was really tough to visit Cairo in Feb 2019.
ANNNNNYWAYS. My suggestion would be to hire a private driver/guide for the day, figure out what you want to do, and do it 1 on 1. During our time in Egypt we hired (male) guides/drivers on around 5 occasions and had a uniformly positive experience.
anon
Don’t drink the tap water
MK
Enjoy! Obvious answer, but the pyramids. It was breathtaking. I went to Cairo several years ago and felt safe as a woman. I wore pants or below-the-knee skirts the whole time and put a scarf over my hair when we were touring mosques, and felt okay the whole time. One of the surprising things was that a lot of Egyptians wanted to take photos with me and my husband (we are both very fair skinned) so somewhere in Egypt a family may have a photo of us holding their baby, and a handful of teenage girls have selfies with me! The one day my husband was stuck in the hotel sick with food poisoning, I was out alone and still felt safe – walking around garden city and then heliopolis. We used ubers to get around everywhere which also felt very safe/helped with the language barrier. Going to the pyramids was a bit of a shock in that so many people will try to scam you into a tour, so I would strongly recommend going with a group for that.
Anon
I am glad you had a great time but do feel the need to point out that going to Egypt with a husband is very, very different than going as a single woman, a day spent walking around the Cairo equivalent of Beverly Hills aside (not to imply they are not beautiful).
OP – HIGHLY recommend a guide or organized group for the tourists sites. Your hotel can probably help you – including finding a woman guide if you prefer that (when I went to Egypt with my mother the hotel thought is was completely understandable that women would want women guides. Also if you only have a day free a guide can help make sure you maximize your time and minimize your time in lines.
Anon for this
we were there a LONG time ago – 2008 bar trip! – but vividly remember the amazing views and food we had at the restaurant on the northern tip of Zamalek – and the neighborhood felt like a quiet residential oasis. Could be a great spot for lunch if you’re staying in Cairo proper and not going out to the pyramids.
If you do go to the pyramids, look into having lunch or a snack at the Mena House property nearby. After a hot and dusty visit, getting cleaned up in the immaculate bathroom and then enjoying an icy beer and mezze platter? Heaven.
Senior Attorney
I can’t speak to Cairo specifically, but I have used Tours By Locals dot com all over the world and had great experiences everywhere.
PistachioLemon
I did Cairo alone for 2 days before I met up with a group from Intrepid travel (really good local tours). This was in 2010, but I felt safe alone during the day time and did a combo of the step pyramids and the Gayer-Anderson Museum. (We were doing Giza, Egyptian Museum, Al Azhar Mosque, etc as a group.)
Crossing the street (any street) was a totally new experience for me. All cars and people go at the same time all together. To cross streets, I would basically attach myself to a group of other people and just move with them. The key is to keep moving and not stop and the cars will go around you.
Be more cautious in the evening. I would not go alone to anywhere that was not clearly a restaurant with families or an international hotel.
Have fun! I thought the city was amazing.
Sunshine
The Wall Street Journal has reviewed several machines that produce sparkling water. I would link it it, but it’s subscription only. I stopped buying sparkling water because of the plastic bottles, but I miss it. Can anyone weigh in on how much they like their soda machines, or don’t like them?
Anon
Not familiar with the machines reviewed by WSJ today, but have had a SodaStream for 5+ years and use it frequently. Tap water is from my well, filtered to remove heavy iron and manganese. The reduction in plastic + reduced bottle schlepping both from the store then empties to the local transfer station (I am in a rural area so no town garbage collection) makes having good tasting sparkling water always on hand a breeze.
Cat
We bought a Soda Stream 7ish years ago and it’s going strong. Not the same bubble concentration as the professionally done stuff, but good enough for the cost & environmental savings.
Anon
We have had a soda stream for years with no issues and it works great!
Anonymous
Another rec for a Sodastream. We got one for a wedding gift 11.5 years ago and still use it constantly. We have a very basic model but it does the job.
Anokha
I put SodaStream on the list of life’s best purchases (not even joking). It changed my life for the better.
Shananana
agreed, like my soda stream and use it almost entirely for only sparkling water. I will add a splash of juice to it when I’m feeling fancy lol.
Anon
I have a Soda Stream and it just collects dust. It doesn’t get the water fizzy enough for me. We buy cases of Spindrift.
Meara
I have one and use it in fits and starts—I feel like I always end up running out of CO2 and then kind of forgetting about it for a few months or more until I manage to swap out.
Anon
I bought a used soda stream on craigslist, and get the grocery store brand canisters. I love it, works great, has totally reduced my plastic waste.
Anon for this
Olympics spoiler –
Anon for this
Some will say karma for that figure skating competition but I just felt sick watching it. And especially when Kamila was crying and the coach was criticizing the performance. I feel so bad for these girls and really hate Russia and the pressures of the sport right now.
NYCer
The whole thing was really hard to watch honestly. I also felt bad for Scherbakova who ultimately got first and was just standing there awkwardly in the room with no one congratulating her. Yikes.
Anon
No, it’s not karma. The ones who should be punished are the adults around here. I feel awful for Kamila.
Anon
This. Poor girl — if she had grown up in a random town in, say Ohio, she would probably avoid the decades of therapy she’s probably heading for. And we wouldn’t disappear her or anything. How bad do you think her world is starting tomorrow?
Anon
That coach seems to be a piece of work. Maybe there’s always a bit of that at this level, but if I had dragons, this would be my Dracaris moment.
Anon
I feel so, so bad for that poor girl.
Congrats to all the adults involved, they’ve managed to make me think figure skating is awful.
Senior Attorney
I honestly think pretty much all big-time sports for minors is awful.
Ribena
My dad was in the arena and said it felt like the tension had got to her. Poor kid.
Serafina
Your dad was in the arena? Tell us more!!
Ribena
He worked on a previous Games and has had jobs at a number of them since! Although if I tell you I laughed out loud at a TikTok I saw earlier this week that said “when your did is literally at the Olympics but you’re seeing more of them on TikTok than from him”…. The algorithm was scarily correct with that one.
Anon
I’m a former figure skater and have a skating friend that’s on the judging panel in Beijing.
Anon
I know it won’t happen, but between Simone Biles’ ordeal in the Summer Olympics and this in the Winter, we need a reckoning of what we’ve done to sports. Finding true rec leagues for kids is hard because everyone wants their kid to be the next gold medalist, but to get to the top takes an unbelievable amount of abuse to body and mind, and sometimes even worse. It’s part of the overall pressure to make every super productive, but we’ve taken all the joy out of sports.
Watching Kamila sob while her coach critiqued her, watching the gold medalist stand alone in silence, watching the silver medalist have an absolute breakdown before she had to go on the podium, none of that was enjoyable. I can’t imagine what they were going through and I just wanted to give them all a hug while I yell at all the adults who have put all this pressure on young teenagers.
These last two years might have ruined the Olympics for me. It’s too hard to separate the athlete’s drive for greatness from the anguish they clearly go through to get there.
Anon
I feel the same about kids and rec leagues. I want my kids to be reasonably active (PE one quarter out of the year is not enough) as a lifetime habit and b/c it is good for their mental health to move around and moderate activity is good to ward off T2 diabetes as an adult (they are adults for a lot longer than they are kids). Plus, if you find a sport that you love, that can be a good buffer when life otherwise gets rough (job, school, love life). We will be paying for college, not looking for scholarships or that as an admissions edge. Why are my choices tennis @ 4X/week or swimming 3X/week, all plus meets and away competitions, or nothing? We are instead signing up for a 5K as a family and planning to do it in 45 minutes if needed, but it’s that or nothing. At least they aren’t getting screamed at and can wear whatever floppy clothing they want without having to worry about shaving or waxing (gymnastics, swimming, some volleyball leagues where you wear trunks).
Anon
I’m with you. My 3rd grader’s HOUSE (aka non travel) soccer team requires two practices a week and one game on the weekend, and if you miss a practice you can’t play in the game (but you still have to be on the bench). You don’t get to pick your practice time, so it can be anywhere from 5pm-8:30pm depending on the coaches and fields. We had to sit out the fall season because she was assigned a 5pm practice slot, but we both work, couldn’t get her to the field on time, and the rest of the teams were full. Their solution was maybe we could find another parent to pick her up from the aftercare program (that none of her teammates attend) and get her to practice on time. We’re trying again for the spring but if we get another early practice time, she’s done with soccer. At age 9! It just doesn’t seem fair.
Anon
I try to separate sports where athletes are at their peak in their early 20s/late teens (like swimming) from those that essentially mandate athletes be pre-pubescent (like gymnastics & figure skating). That fact creates very specific pressures on girls who are way too young to be put in those situations. I’m tall, my husband is tall, and I expect my kids will be tall, so we have no hope of ever being successful at either of those sports, so it won’t come up, but I’m less concerned about watching track and field athletes or snowboarders or the like (who have all generally gone through puberty) than sports that are just fundamentally abusive because that’s what success looks like there.
Anon
Skating wasn’t like this until recently. Michelle Kwan, Sasha Cohen, Carolina Kostner, Irina Slutskaya all won Oly medals in their 20s. Many others (Yuma Kim, Mao Asada) were in their late teens and post-pubescent.
Anon
Katarina Witt, Nancy Kerigan, and even Tonya Harding were all adults.
Ekaterina Gordeeva won gold medals as a pair skater with her husband as a non-parent and then after becoming a parent.
Sarabeth
I think it’s the transition to younger athletes that strips a lot of the fun out for me.
Anon
Well, that’s the thing – gymnastics also used to be post-pubescent athletes, but remember Beijing 2008? When half the Chinese team was clearly 14-15 years old? It’s not a coincidence that two sports that require flinging yourself in the air for tricks prioritize low body mass and a pre-pubescent figure. And they’re the ones winning.
Anon
Midori Ito was 18 in 1988 and 22 in 1992 when she won her silver medal.
Woof
I think the muscle to body weight ratio for figure skating is at it’s most advantageous in the teenage years. That muscle is used to fling the body into space and twirl, etc. And the Russians make a career of these things, separating children at a young age to attend athletic schools.
Anon
In my family, girls get their periods at around age 10, even if they are tall and skinny. So IDK how you can delay puberty into your teens — outright starvation seems like it would make them to weak to train. Maybe it wrecks your body from the inside? Does anyone know if very young elite athletes are able to have kids later if they want to? Or if this somehow makes them infertile later on?
Anon
I believe there are meds you can take to delay puberty that aren’t banned by anti-doping rules. But yes starvation and over exercising also contribute. From what I understand, it’s usually possible to delay it until about age 16, but after that it’s inevitable. Which is why all of Eteri’s skaters end their careers around ages 16-17. The ISU raising the age limit for senior level international competition to 18 would go a long way towards eliminating this problem and apparently they’re considering it.
Anon
I’m sorry, one of my best friends was almost an olympic gymnast (blew out her knee, otherwise you’d know her name.) It’s not like even back then you went around having a normal life and then started competing at 18. She had a f&*(^& up childhood full of eating disorders, weigh-ins, and “walk it off” injuries that no one should be walking off. She’s in her 40s now. This is not new.
Anonymous
Gymnastics was even more toxic and abusive in the 1980s than it is now.
Anonymous
+1. I know zilch about child development, but was wondering if a ban on junior competitors doing certain tricks could help? So you would have the chance to go through puberty and actually have the bone density you need before you can earn points in competition for certain tricks? That would make junior and senior competition very different, which I think would be a good thing.
Anon
Just because a kid can’t compete something doesn’t mean they won’t train it. Yes, it should be on coaches to limit risky skills and certainly should not push, but any kid who has the ability and drive will figure out a way. Kids do stupid ish all the time. I’m lucky I survived to adulthood.
Anon
Although Mikaela Shiffrin (slalom) is 26 now, she started competing in the World Cups at age 15, and was clearly in lots of training for years before that. Sha’Carri Richardson (sprinter) is 21 but won the Junior Olympics at age 16, and clearly was in serious training before then. Maybe curling isn’t as intense, but even John Shuster (age 39) seems to have started in his teens and was playing in world competitions by the time he was 20.
They may be through puberty by the time they make it to the Olympics, but that just means they’ve dedicated even more of their lives to practices and training and pressure.
Anon
It is way too much, way too young.
For context:I played multiple sports in high school, and played D1 in college in the 2010s. I’m a huge fan of playing sports, I think all kids should play something at some level, and I clearly have nothing against high level competitive sports. But, I hate seeing what youth sports look like these days (I didn’t like how it was in when I was in high school, and it’s only gotten worse). Sports should be FUN! Training this much (especially all in one sport) cannot be healthy for developing bodies, and it clearly not healthy for developing minds.
I miss the days when you could be a good high school player by only playing in-season for your high school team. You’d stay fit and cross train by playing other sports in other seasons. You’d have pre-season to get yourself ready for the next sport. I’m younger than many of my cousins, and they all played 3 varsity sports in high school and a D1 college sport by doing the above. By the time I was in high school, you had to play club teams year round to be competitive. My parents were (rightfully) against that, so I was a bench warmer in my favorite 2 sports. I started rowing in high school (it doesn’t really start before that here), my coaches offered year-round crew, but encouraged us to play other sports (and would give us 1-2 erg workouts a week to complete on our own time so we were ready for the season). That was enough to be recruited to college. College rowing is, I think, out of control – but I was overall happy with my participation for 3 years. But, I was also really happy with my decision to quit and have a normal senior year.
Cat
Hearing Tara and Johnny describe what they had to do when competing at that level as far as drug tests – like maintaining an hourly diary – was eye opening. They were discussing it in the context of how highly unlikely it would be for a teen to be oblivious to what medication was allowed or needed special authorization (in the US, anyway, who knows wtf goes on in Russia or Kamila’s team!), but the whole lifestyle sounds absolutely soul-crushing.
Anon
She’s 15! Even if she wasn’t oblivious what was she supposed to do? I totally understand their anger at the situation, but it’s not the child’s fault.
Cat
Yes that was their ultimate point – that any adults working with Kamila causing this problem – whether talking her into taking the drug or otherwise manipulating her – should be penalized.
Anon
It’s like there are no recreational sports any more, kids are expected to gun for the Olympics or pro sports or at the very least, D1 college sports from age 4. A friend of mine’s daughter quit competitive swimming for the same reason: she basically got told by her coaches after a swim meet that they only had room for people who were going to be “very serious” about competing, meaning she’d have to do two-a-day practices at 5 a.m. and 4 p.m. six days a week, travel to swim competitions most weekends, etc. Her daughter liked swimming but also liked other things and wanted to have a normal teenage life, so she quit. It’s no surprise to me that the people who are left in sports after a certain point are the ones who have been heavily pressured to succeed, and that by the time they reach the Olympics, they’ve started to break down under the strain. Who wouldn’t?
Anon
Yikes — what about kids in families where there are other children and the mom works? No sports for these kids unless you have a morning sports practice driving nanny and then another for the afternoon/evening shift?
The only skating family I know has two girls, both of whom skate, and the mom is a SAH mom (or stay-in-the-rink mom). They do travel competitions maybe 2x a year but the kids are in a normal high school and they aren’t nutty. But I work and could never manage this. I know families where all 4 kids swim, but when you do gendered sports (wrestling, football, IDK how you do it if one kid wants ballet and one wants to play the cello).
Anon
My friend said there were no allowances made by her daughter’s coaches for any “life circumstances” that would interfere with practices or meets. Her daughter was either in all the way or she needed to take herself out.
My friend and her husband both work and her husband is in the trades so has a somewhat irregular schedule. They were told it was up to them to either rearrange their work schedules to accommodate the practices or find people who could provide transportation for their daughter; they even suggested getting the daughter an Uber account so she could Uber herself to practices (“some people do that”). My friend was not super-into the idea that if her daughter committed, all their summer weekends would be taken up with traveling to swim meets – no more camping trips with her parents or trips to Disney (which her daughter loves), or just weekends where they could go to brunch and go shopping. And needless to say, the cost commitment was going to be considerable – my friend was told by another parent to budget $10-$15k per year, minimum, for club fees, swim equipment, extra lessons (on top of the two-a-days!), travel, etc..
Granted, this was a competitive swim club and my friend knew that when her daughter joined in elementary school. As the years went on and my friend’s daughter was successful at meets, it got more and more and more serious and high-pressure. By the end, I felt that what they were asking my friend’s daughter to do made it seem like a job. And as my friend said, what happens if her daughter gets to the end of high school and doesn’t get a scholarship or make it to the Olympics? She’ll have given up her whole adolescence, which she can’t get back.
Anon
I was very involved in music (lessons, youth orchestra, all-state band, playing in several local college ensembles, etc in addition to school band) as a kid and starting in about 8th grade, it was on me to arrange/ask for rides (my mom would give me a little gas money to give to whoever agreed). Yes, rehearsal attendance was non-negotiable, but my parents weren’t doing the labor of figuring it all out once I hit about 14. Once I was 16, I likewise often helped shuttle others around when I was able to have the car for the day. We didn’t have much money, so the ensembles I was in were limited to the ones that were free or paid me.
Anon
The transportation stuff was only a small part of why my friend’s daughter didn’t want to keep swimming.
Congratulations on being super-bootstrappy, I guess?
Anon
I was a competitive figure skater as a kid. I did out of town competitions a lot more than twice a year, it was more like 1-2 times a month. When I was in junior high and high school I had a special arrangement with the school to have free periods in the morning, so I could skate in the mornings and go to school late. I woke up every day at 4:30 am to skate for hours before school. Summer was all skating camps, some at home, some sleepaway camps in other cities. I worked with big name coaches like Tom Z and Raf (both coaches of current Olympians) at those camps. In total, it cost around $50k a year. The sport is definitely mostly kids who have stay at home mothers and fathers in high-earning professions because of the cost and time commitment. There were a lot of divorces, and kids who had to drop out of the sport after the divorce. My mom worked, but was a college professor she had a lot of flexibility to work from the rink. I often rode to competitions with other families because my mom had to teach on Fridays. All of this was completely normal for competitive figure skaters, even low level ones like me who were never going to the Olympics or anywhere close to it. But even that level of intensity is so much less than it can be. I know a bunch of people that dropped out of school and moved across the country (usually with just their SAHM, dad and siblings if applicable stayed behind) to pursue skating. None of them made it to the Olympics. The one who made it the farthest finished 17th at senior nationals, which if you think about it is an insane accomplishment – she was literally the 17th best skater in the US that year – but still so so so far from actually getting to the Olympics (2-3 women go every four years), let alone an Olympic medal.
Anon
It’s not just Olympics. Think of all the physical and mental hardships of 13-14 year old tennis players – Tracy Austin, Jennifer Capriati, Kathy Rinaldi, Monica Seles. I think tennis did try to add some restrictions for younger players, but it’s not enough and too late for so many.
anon
I feel the same about everything you’ve said. My 6th grader wants to play soccer, but there is virtually nothing that isn’t an intensive time commitment, and he doesn’t want it. It’s ridiculous.
I have always loved all Olympics sports, especially gymnastics and skating, but I’m afraid the entire culture is too broken to continue. I feel gross watching them, knowing that many of those athletes, and especially the young ones, are going through hell to get where they are. I mean, both of these sports have had problems for a LONG time, and it just keeps getting worse. I felt terrible for Simone last summer. And Valieva’s coach is known to be a piece of work.
pugsnbourbon
+1. No one under 17 in the Games, period. If other countries cheat and we fall behind in the medal count, so be it.
Anon
“My 6th grader wants to play soccer, but there is virtually nothing that isn’t an intensive time commitment, and he doesn’t want it.”
My son is tall for his age and got recruited for prep basketball, but then found out the coach didn’t want him in any other activities (he already does karate, and has for a long time, and didn’t want to give that up) or extracurriculars at school. This all-or-nothing mentality is pushing a lot of kids out of sports and the ones that remain are giving up a lot of their childhood/adolescence to be competitive in their sport. And the irony is, as fewer kids participate in sports, things like the Olympics become less and less culturally relevant. I, and almost everyone else I knew, played a team sport as a kid. Now team sports are so high-pressure and high-commitment that most of my kid’s friends opted out. As a result, they are way more into X-games types of sports and e-sports than most of what’s on the Olympics.
Anon
I just want my kids to work up a sweat here and there and not get type 2 diabetes as adults. I guess it is too much to ask?
I don’t feel bad about making them do scouts. They have gotten to camp and hike and canoe and rock climb (on real rocks and climbing walls). They could be more sporty and do a high adventure camp when they are older, but they can also learn more about old-school shop class things like metalwork that they probably wouldn’t otherwise b exposed to. There’s no Olympics or anything, but no one is screaming at them, either and it’s one evening a week for a meeting and often a camping trip monthly during the school year. Otherwise, I think they’d have nothing because there is no middle left.
Cat
reposting to get out of m.d – I think I fixed it??
Hearing Tara and Johnny describe what they had to do when competing at that level as far as drug tests – like maintaining an hourly diary – was eye opening. They were discussing it in the context of how highly unlikely it would be for a teen to be oblivious to what medication was allowed or needed special authorization (in the US, anyway, who knows what on earth goes on in Russia or Kamila’s team!), but the whole lifestyle sounds absolutely soul-crushing.
Anonymous
My new boss (of about four months) and I are friendly but they send me so many texts outside of work that are not work related–mostly funny type stuff. I’ve been replying as an obligation and because some are funny. Now I barely look at what they’ve sent and just reply to what the little picture seems to be. I also occasionally instigate since that’s what I’d do with a friend. There’s absolutely no romantic undertone.
How do I fade out this interaction without having a direct conversation.
Anonymous
Stop responding to anything not work related and stop initiating
Anon
You are not obligated to respond.
Anon
Do not respond, do not instigate, and if they ask about it:
“Oh sorry, I wasn’t looking at my phone last night.”
“Oh sorry, I got distracted.”
“Oh yeah I’m just not using my phone as much at home.”
Continue on repeat until they get the hint. If it continues too long or escalates, consider going to HR if you’re not comfortable directly asking your manager to stop. At that point, even if they’re a nice person, it’s crossed into harassment. Even nice people can tell when subordinates don’t want to text back after work.
Anon
If they ask about it, be honest in your response. For me that would be, “It wasn’t work related so I didn’t respond.”
Anonymous
This is not what HR is for and you really won’t benefit from formalizing this issue.
Anon
Okay, so I’m going to be the voice of dissent here, but this is a very know-your-industry thing. In mine at least, it’s super common to be friends with your boss (and subordinates!) outside of the office, or at least fairly friendly. I think ignoring anything work related is fine, but if you’re in an industry where this is normal, I think you need to be comfortable with it or at least participate a bit. I know this board tends toward work/life separation, but that’s not the norm in some industries, and deviating from that norm can be detrimental toward getting ahead (just as being too friendly in a hard boundary industry can be detrimental!).
Anon
+1
Bonnie Kate
Agree with above, you can stop responding and don’t instigate/feel reciprocity to go back and forth. I have a lot of interaction with clients and occasionally will have a client that gets in a habit of going overboard with texts and I just don’t respond to non-work texts that are sent outside of normal hours.
Anon
I’m having a TON of trouble doing the thing and getting started with any task: work tasks, responding to emails, putting away laundry. Once I get started, I’m good and productive for a few hours (not all day, but a few hours). Once I get started, I do the pomodoro method which works decently well for me. I’m just massively struggling getting started – this has been happening for about 2 weeks. Any tips?
Panda Bear
I’m with you 100% – work stuff, home stuff. Putting on music, a podcast, or audiobook helps.
Anokha
+1 to music. I blast music while doing chores and it helps (a little.)
Cat
you can do anything for 5 minutes. (Give yourself permission to stop at that point if you want to trick yourself into starting.)
Anonymous
DH and I have been meaning to do some basic estate planning but have been putting it off for years and it’s now the “thing” I want to have done. Our situation is pretty straightforward: we own a house, have a kid together and no other kids or dependents, and enough savings and life insurance to maintain current lifestyle for the surviving spouse. My neighbor recommended a local service staffed by non-lawyers that uses a detailed online questionnaire, and then form documents are generated. I think the cost is about 1/3 the cost of hiring a lawyer, which (even though we can afford it) has been a deterrent in doing this. WWYD? Should I spend more and hire a lawyer? I’d especially love to here from readers who practice wills and trusts law!
Cat
The kid is the most complicated part of this – how old is the kid? Who would take custody if you both die before they do? What financial structure would you want in place for that – a trust? Who’s the trustee? When does kid eventually get full inheritance?
IDK, I think it’s worth the lawyer fee, but I am wary of form stuff like that.
Anon
I’m an ex-lawyer (not wills and trusts) and we hired an attorney to do our estate planning. Our situation was similar to yours and pretty simple, but I wanted an attorney who would talk us through everything and spot any potential issues with our plans. We’re also now they’re clients, so they’re obligated to send us updates if anything changes with the law that might effect our estate planning. A form won’t do that. Fwiw it was a pretty modest fee ($800 in a MCOL Midwest city) so I felt it was worth it. I likely would have felt differently if it were $5k but I was surprised how cheap it was.
Anonymous
We had a lawyer. She used forms and got a number of them wrong, which I had to catch. No customization, questions about our preferences, etc. I think the service you describe would have provided higher quality service.
Anon
If you can afford it, I don’t see why you wouldn’t hire a lawyer. I don’t practice wills and estates, but I am a lawyer and would not trust form documents being put together based on a questionnaire only. This goes double since you have a child and would want to be sure everything is air tight if the worst happened and you and your spouse passed away.
Anon
Also, the great thing about a lawyer rather than a questionnaire is that the lawyer might have ideas about how to structure your estate or might have solutions or even questions you wouldn’t have thought of unless you have knowledge and experience in the area.
For example, a lot of boilerplate advice is for people to have a financial power of attorney in their estate documents. I don’t have a spouse, children, parents, or siblings, and the lawyer who did my estate had experience and specific reasoning for advising against a financial POA for my particular circumstance. I’m not sure you’d get advice like that with forms.
Anons
Hire a lawyer if you can afford it. We just signed our will last week, and our lawyer was awesome. She talked us through all sorts of scenarios, gave us examples us what other clients had chosen, etc. Our estate is not complicated at all, but it felt good to talk it through with someone, especially something so consequential.
Anonymous
Hire a lawyer. Don’t cheap out on something that could cost many multiples more in the future for a loved one.
anon.
Please. Please hire a lawyer. I work for a state court and we see so many problems with T&E/Successions documents. It’s well worth your peace of mind.
NYCer
T&E lawyer here. I would pay for the lawyer.
Aunt Jamesina
IANAL, but I would pay for the lawyer since you have a child. I wouldn’t otherwise.
Thanks for the reminder that I need to do this, too!
Anon
Same. Invest some money in protecting your kid.
Anonymous
I am a lawyer but do not practice estate law. A friend of mine spent some time doing wills/estates for service members while she was in the military. She said a lot of people came in with these form-generated documents and ever since that experience she has called them malpractice machines. YMMV but I decided to hire an estates attorney rather than trying to craft my own using one of those sites, even being an attorney myself based upon her experience.
AnonATL
We just went through this. If you can afford it, I would use a reputable lawyer in your area for the peace of mind that it is done correctly. I am so glad we now have all these documents in place for our son and each other in case something happens
Anonymous
Not remotely a lawyer but we did an online thing and found that the questions were surprisingly complicated – like you don’t just need to know who you want to be the guardian, you need to know who the plan B (C, D, and E) is, whether you want someone different in all of these different scenarios or for different purposes like managing money, etc. We plowed through it because we’re unrelentingly cheap and have a pretty straightforward situation, but it was harder than I thought it would be. If you can afford to spend the money on a lawyer, it may be well worth it for you.
Sunshine
I would hire a lawyer because your estate planning probably should include a trust for your assets to ensure your child is provided for financially for the rest of childhood. Trusts aren’t complicated, but they also aren’t simple, especially if you want to dictate the conditions of the trust (what the money will cover, what it won’t, at what age will the child receive the remaining funds in the trust that are not spent on childhood costs, etc.). When DH and I did our estate documents a few years ago, the trust was the most document-intensive portion.
Anon
Hire the lawyer. The two circumstances that really matter when you have a kid:
1. Bad accident, one parent dies, the other becomes disabled. Disabled parent runs throguh all of the money and there is nothing left for the kid.
2. One parent dies, leaves everything to other parent, and the surviving parent remarries. At that point, absent good estate planning, the dead spouse’s life insurance and assets are available for the new spouse. That person could take part of them in a divorce (unless meticulously maintained as separate property, in a state that has those laws), or could make it hard to spend on your kid the way you intended. Maybe your life insurance covers 4 years of private college and the new spouse is all – community college is fine. Not a value judgement either way, just be aware of who is in charge of the money.
Quail
+1. You need to plan for multiple contingencies. Also, times of grief can bring out the worst in families. Please make it easy for the surviving adult (whether that’s one of you or the executor of the estates or the new guardian of your kid) and tie EVERYTHING up as much as possible so there isn’t dickering over money. Trust me when I say that even for people who swear up and down they don’t care about money, once there is the possibility of money on the table, they will be complaining about the valuation of your used car.
Also, when my spouse and I set up our wills/trusts, our attorney also went through health care proxies and end-of-life wishes. Please, please provide this gift to your relatives and children. If god forbid my husband or relatives have to take me off life support, I want my kids to know (either in the moment if they are old enough or later in life when they realize what happened) that my wishes were clear and that the end was as best as it could be for me. As someone who had to make these decisions as a young adult for my own relative for whom I was legally responsible, I am so glad my relative had these wishes spelled out and that we had discussed them.
nuqotw
+1, get a lawyer. I am not a lawyer but when we had our first we were making ~$20K/year combined, spending down savings to cover childcare until he got a job/I finished school and got a job. We used more savings for a lawyer to draw up appropriate documents. It was ~$1K and well worth the peace of mind. Like everyone we hope never to need it…but my Dad’s parents both died young so it looms large in my mind that it does happen. Get it done, correctly, by a lawyer; you will not regret it.
Anon
I’m coming at this from the perspective of someone with dementia in on both sides of the family: it’s worth it to me to pay for a professional to make sure the estate isn’t drained if one person needs advanced care. I’m not going to live on the street because Blue Cross wants my house in order to shove my husband in a sh1tty facility where they strap him to the bed and ignore him (yes I have issues based on seeing how the “best” local facilities have treated my relatives over the past decade). I want everything wrapped up in trusts and etc.
Anon
Pinch your pennies somewhere else. Don’t mess around with things that matter.
Anon
Right? I don’t change my oil or do my own dental work. Why would I think I’d do a good job with a will?
Senior Attorney
This times a million. My husband is a divorce lawyer and half his practice is cleaning up messes after people who thought they could save money by doing their own divorces.
An.On.
I am a T&E lawyer. A lawyer will help explain why they might recommend Plan A over Plan B, and can assist in making sure that all your non-lawyer generated items (beneficiary designations, titlework, ownership, etc) are also in line with the plan. They also carry malpractice insurance if something gets screwed up. If you use a non-lawyer service and it’s not done correctly, any lawyer you take it to to try and fix it, is going to be thinking that you brought it on yourself. And if there is a mistake, chances are you won’t notice it until it’s too late to fix by executing new documents. That being said, all lawyers are not created equal. Make sure you have someone familiar in this field.
Different attorneys have different billing practices in this field (flat fee, hourly, etc) so YMMV but my cheapest files are not necessarily the ones with the least in assets, but the ones who (a) have the asset and family information I need already organized and ready and (b) have a very good idea of what they want their plan to look like, i.e., what happens at death of one of you? at death of both? how much control will survivor have to change the plan? if there’s a minor child, who will be guardian? what distributions are mandatory? are discretionary? who has the discretion? any special assets?
CPA Lady
Please, please, please get a lawyer to do a will and medical and financial incapacity documents. An actual estate planning lawyer who does this all day and is familiar with the laws of your state, not solo practitioner lawyer Bob who does a little of this, a little of that. My tax specialty is estate/trust/high net worth so I do a lot of work surrounding estate planning and the tax part of estate administration and see what happens if there’s not a will, or if the will is a piece of junk. Whoever said that it will easily cost ten times as much to deal with a lawsuit than it would to get your will done right the first time is absolutely correct. I’ve seen entire estates eaten up by legal fees. Death and grief can bring out a lot of weird family drama and dredge up all kinds of ancient history and buried hurts, even from people you wouldn’t expect to behave that way. Do your family a favor and have the appropriate documents drawn up by a competent lawyer.
I’ve also had to deal with this on a personal level, as someone who had to help with the death and estate of an elderly family friend, and the fact that she had everything she wanted in writing, done in an airtight way by an attorney, was massively helpful. I didn’t have to make any decisions during an already stressful time, I just had to do what she said she wanted. It was such a gift.
Anan
I am not a lawyer, but we hired one and she has proven valuable in the years since- not regarding out wills, but she was able to give us advice and act on our behalf when we were having issues settling my father in law’s estate. She has also referred us to other lawyers when we needed something that wasn’t in her expertise.
Anon
The only caveat to the above is that “hire a lawyer” sometimes is the barrier that prevents someone from actually getting it done. If you want to buy one of those do it youself books and have it print forms bc it means you can get it started today and actually get it done, that is certainly better than “i’ll get around to getting a lawyer one day.” Particularly if your situation is not complicated.
Anon
DH and I have been meaning to do some basic estate planning but have been putting it off for years and it’s now the “thing” I want to have done. Our situation is pretty straightforward: we own a house, have a kid together and no other kids or dependents, and enough savings and life insurance to maintain current lifestyle for the surviving spouse. My neighbor recommended a local service staffed by non-lawyers that uses a detailed online questionnaire, and then form documents are generated. I think the cost is about 1/3 the cost of hiring a lawyer, which (even though we can afford it) has been a deterrent in doing this. WWYD? Should I spend more and hire a lawyer? I’d especially love to here from readers who practice wills and trusts law!
Anonymous
I don’t practice in this area but I have been told that attorneys that do make tons of money fixing the problems caused by non attorneys doing this sort of work. Why risk it?
Deedee
Silly question of the day: How many multiples do you keep of clothing basics? i.e. underwear, bras, sports bras, various types of socks, etc.
I have a lot of worn out stuff but struggle to make myself get rid of things until I’ve worn them completely out. I’d like to start fresh with some of my underthings but then have an irrational feeling that doing so won’t leave me with enough.
I’m also curious about less basic but to my mind essential items: jeans, tees, etc… do you aim for specific numbers?
Aunt Jamesina
I have enough basics to get me through about two weeks. I do laundry weekly, but this provides a buffer just in case I don’t get around to it. That doesn’t mean 14 of everything (since I don’t work out every single day and my lifting workouts aren’t sweaty, I think I have five sports bras, for example).
Anon
+1, I’m two weeks plus one. So 15 underwear, 8 bras, 11 work socks, 5 fun socks, 7 sports bras and workout socks. My 15th underwear is my warning pair – a worn out but super comfy and still wearable pair from my prior stash that I can’t get rid of.
I do laundry about every week and a half, and when I get to my warning pair of undies I know I’m in emergency laundry mode.
Anon
In my wildest dreams, I could not be organized enough to think of this system nor to know how many of each item I own.
Anon
Same… I do laundry whenever I have a wfh day (I’m hybrid, but wfh at least once a week) and my hamper is somewhat full. I usually do laundry 1-2x a week. I MIGHT be organized enough to think that I have a trip or something coming up and something I want to wear is in the laundry so I should do laundry, but maybe not.
I have enough underwear, socks, etc. that I have more than enough to last between washes.
Anon
I’m not the 10:04 poster, and am so not organized. The only reason I have an idea is because once per year I hunt down all my socks and underwear to re-pair the socks and replenish the rag bag with underwear that are beyond hope.
Aunt Jamesina
This seems like such a personality thing. I’m super duper organized and all of my drawers are KonMari’d, while my husband is a “grab whatever’s on top and wash whenever I’m down to the weird stuff I forgot I had” kinda guy.
Anonymous
+1
Anonymous
Whoa. Your lifting outfits don’t get sweaty?
I have a lot of everything. Too much. And a lot of specific clothes for specific things. For example, since I sweat quite a bit when I lift (though not a lot generally), I have a separate set of underwear for working out. (I guess I thought everyone did but I guess not.) I continue to try to cull my clothes to align with actual needs.
Anon
Being a rower, I got used to not wearing underwear with spandex/leggings early on, I quickly stopped wearing underwear for all workouts (wearing either leggings or running shorts with built in underwear).I guess I forgot that I picked this up from rowing until a recent conversation with a friend, I did not realize other people worked out in underwear!
no undies
Most athletic leggings are designed to be worn without underwear. I’ve never been a rower, but also don’t wear underwear with workout gear at this point, nor does anyone I know!
Anonymous
I once posted here that I have enough underwear to get through a little more than a week with 3 pairs a day–one for day, one for night, and one for working out–and was ridiculed. I am glad to know there is someone else here who actually sweats.
anon
Same here. I will even go through more in the summer, say if I go for a walk and it’s hot and humid, I work out later, etc.
Anon
I have probably 2 weeks worth of underwear and normal socks. I have 3 bralettes, 1 regular bra, and 1 strapless bra. I have probably 10 sports bras – some for lounging that I would not workout in and probably 7ish that I work out in (some for running, some not). I also have a lot (maybe 8 pairs?) of wool hiking socks.
I do laundry 1-2x a week (do sheets/towels weekly), but its nice to have plenty of basics so when I”m busy (too many 90 hour weeks in the last 2 years) I don’t run out.I also like to go on 10+ day hiking trips so I have plenty supplies since I often can’t do laundry.
I used to have like 2 pairs of jeans, I probably have like 5 now (keeping up with trends and new sizes). I have way too many white T’s but I wear them a ton (very much a jeans and t girl, but also wear them under sweaters). I could probably cull these (some are pretty worn out), but every time I do that, I run out.
No Face
I don’t aim for a number. I like the pace of my laundry, so if I keep finding that the things I want to wear are dirty, it is a sign that I should just buy more. I can’t tell you how many socks I have, but I know I never feel like I’m running out of clean ones.
You also don’t need to throw out your old underwear just because you are buying new underwear.
Vicky Austin
Does everyone not keep old underwear for a while? It’s always good to have something you can bleed on.
Anonymous
I buy new undies when the elastic fails or they get holes, so no I don’t keep them around.
AZCPA
This never even occurred to me! I wear dark or black underwear in general, and have never had an issue getting out an occasional spot of blood. I do have a fairly light period, so maybe just lucky to not have to deal with this a lot.
Cat
yeah, for those of us with awful ones, just twisting the wrong way when replacing a tampon can result in a surprise gush. I’m not wasting the life of my expensive good pairs on having to scrub out a clot!
Insurance
Yes, you are lucky.
Anon
Enough that all of them makes one full washer load. (That includes the delicates bags to enclose thongs, bras, etc.) I wash everything that touches stinky bits in hot water, so I do one load of all that stuff together.
Cat
I have way more clothes than I “need” but for underwear I keep a stable of about 10 days’ worth of my no-VPL faves, 5 pairs of comfy cotton when I DGAF about VPL, and 2-3 pairs on their last legs for Worst Two Days Of Period :)
tess
What are the no-VPL faves? Mine are discontinued :(
Cat
Natori’s briefs are my favorites. Somehow despite the lace on the edges they do not show! They are also good at staying in place, which cannot be said for many of the invisible-edge styles out there.
tess
Thanks! I will check these out!
Anon
Probably way too many…I don’t like to run out. I think I have like 20 pairs of socks, lol.
Cb
My wardrobe is split between home city and work city, not equally as I found to my chagrin this week. I aim for 4-5 athleisure, two pairs of jeans, 6 or 7 bras, piles of underpants, 5 pairs of jammies, and two weeks of work clothes.
anon
I feel like I have a good handle on the basics. What I’m less sure about is how many t-shirts to keep in the rotation. I probably have too many, but I rarely part with them because WHAT IF I NEED THAT COLOR?
Anon
I have an entire shallow drawer full of just panties because I keep buying new ones and not getting rid of the old, sigh. I guess I like all the colors too.
I have about 10 bras but only 3-4 I really like, doesn’t everyone?
I have probably 7-10 jeans but they’re different washes and cuts etc.
I have way too many jackets/hoodies/cardigans. I wear something like this every day and like to have exactly the right color and weight. It’s half my closet so it’s kind of a ridiculous excess. It’s also what everyone gets me for gifts and I just had Christmas and my birthday so I’m very topper heavy right now.
Anon
Can I ask a variation of the will question, except that we have no kids and no house? All assets are in joint accounts or retirement accounts with spouse as primary beneficiary and our parents as secondary (if they die, we can update this to siblings, but this is easiest for now), so it seems like it’s pretty much taken care of already. I still feel like we should technically have wills but don’t want to spend a ton…
Anon
If you are in an accident together but he dies first, but you die soon after, you can see how that can really change things one way or the other. A lawyer would add language that if you die like this, the families split things 50-50 (or you are each deemed to have survived), but careful thinking about things is key. I don’t dislike my inlaws, but if my husband outlives me by a day, I would prefer that my family, some of which is quite needy, gets at least something.
Anon
So our joint accounts currently are set to be split between our parents. But I guess what you’re saying that if I die first, my retirement accounts become his, then he dies, and they go to his parents. While that wouldn’t be my preference, neither set of parents really needs the money, so I don’t feel that strongly either way, and I’m not convinced that requires thousands of dollars to set up correctly.
Anon
But thank you, that’s helpful to think about! Mostly I really care that my husband and I are taken care of if the other one dies and after that it doesn’t really matter too much to me.
Anon
The parents may be dead by the time you die. What about other relatives? And if you are both brain dead, one family may want to keep you a live longer just to get the $. Don’t incent them to do that to you (and the medical expense of that will just deplete your estate). If you have no kids, it is a cheap/easy fix and maybe the best $ you’ll ever spend.
Anonymous
+1 to putting a will in place. I don’t want my husband if he survives me to have a midlife crisis and gift my share of everything we earned together to his barista. I want it to support him in his old age.
Anon
You probably need a will. Even if everything goes to the right people in the end, it may not go to them in a desirable timeframe.
Anon
You need to figure out what to do if you’re alive but incapacitated. Estate planning isn’t just about after you’re gone.
Anon
OP here, one more thing to add – part of the reason we haven’t done this yet is that we keep moving and my understanding is that it’s state specific. If we do it now in one state and move next year, do we have to do it over or does it hold unless something differs in the new state?
Anonanonanon
Depending on your state, our will and estate planning wasn’t just the will, but also having in place a designated health care surrogate, designated power of attorney, living will, and a preneed guardian. So even if your accounts pretty much determine where things go, I think it’s worth talking to an attorney about other ancillary documents that often get put together at the same time you might do a will.
H13
Dry scalp help? I try to only wash everything three days but it is just miserable in the winter. Any recs?
Anon
Have you tried Head & Shoulders?
H13
I haven’t because it always just feels to harsh. I’ve used t-gel in the past. I always feel like there should be something I can spray on my scalp to actually moisturize it.
Anon
H&S should be moisturizing, but there are other more glamorous products with pyrithione zinc in them if you want different options. Dry scalp can be mild seborrheic dermatitis – not saying it is for you, but it is somewhat common.
Anon
Figure out which active works for you. Some people respond best to salicylic acid, others to ketoconazole, others to zinc pyrithione or selinium sulfide. Give each one a few weeks of time to work solo, and then choose accordingly.
Anonymous
I had dry scapy for years, turns out I was allergic to conventional detergents (H&S is caustic). I switched to carina organics and my scalp has been fine for over a year now.
Anon
I feel like I preach about this every winter. Dry scalp is NOT dandruff. Dandruff is caused by a fungus. Dry scalp is just dry skin – you need “scalp lotion.” When my scalp is so itchy it hurts, I go to the Black hair care aisle and look for the little bottles of oil. They’ll fit in the palm of your hand. Here’s a picture of some from ebay. They sell them at any drugstore or grocery store. Read the descriptions and grab the one that suits you best. Then go home and section off your hair so you can get down to your scalp and apply the oil – I use most of a bottle when I’m super itchy. Let it soak for 10-20 minutes, then shampoo as usual.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/iYIAAOSwbERejk6Q/s-l1600.jpg
H13
This is awesome – thank you!
pugsnbourbon
+1 to hair oil. I think I just used organic sweet almond oil when my scalp was wildly dry a few years ago.
Anon
+100
I have a dry scalp but I don’t have dandruff. When my skin gets dry it flakes off (happens on the rest of my body too), but Head & Shoulders won’t work here if its dry skin.
Anon
I have to wash my hair every day to keep it at bay.
anon
Same here. And maybe this is a major sin, but every few washes I massage some conditioner into my scalp to relieve the dry itchiness.
PolyD
I’ve moved to every other day as I get older, but yes, less frequent washing than that and it gets itchy. And I totally use conditioner on my whole head, including scalp. I initially put it on the ends of my hair, but then move up to the top. Not sure why this would be a problem – if your hair is so oily that conditioner at the roots would be bad, wouldn’t you be unlikely to have a dry scalp?
Also, I know all hair is different, but sometimes the answer to hair and head issues IS NOT “stop washing your hair!!” I read about people having certain issues and think, Well, maybe wash your hair a little more often instead of dumping tons of product and dry shampoo on it!
Flats Only
I also find it depends on the products I use. Pantene shampoo & conditioner = no itch, even after a few days. Fancy salon brand with oils and “natural ingredients” (Redken) = itchy the next day if not washed again. I have concluded the itching is caused by the oils and natural ingredients rotting on my scalp, so I try to stick with Pantene and save the salon brands for the occasional deep conditioning.
Anon
I’m in an all day virtual conference today and tomorrow. I hate, hate, hate it. I miss doing these things in person! I pivoted in my industry, so I really feel like I’m missing out on the networking opportunities. I have trouble focusing on a 7 hour webinar, so I’m definitely not absorbing as much as I would be in person. There’s an expectation from my supervisors that since this is virtual, I can multitask and do other work while I’m in the webinar. I also don’t have the self control to not pull out my phone and scroll instagram, etc. while in a virtual conference.
Anon
I record them. It takes some pressure off to know I can refer back if I accidentally zone out.
Anon
I’ve done this before, but the topic is sensitive and they announced that it’s a no go for this conference.
Bonnie Kate
Oh that’s nice you’re at least trying the virtual conference…I would be paying about 10% attention to it. I feel for the people whose job it is to plan and run conferences, but virtual conferences are really ridiculous. We are exhibitors/presenters at 5-6 regional conferences a year and attend a national conference and I flat out refused to any virtual conferences last year. I think I participated in two that I was specifically asked to present, but that was it. And virtual exhibit halls are a ridiculous idea they tried to push. I talked to some of my colleagues who did try it and said it was crickets. A link to my website is not worth $500.
Anyway, way to tough it out! My industry is back to in person conferences since August. I know some thought at the beginning of the pandemic that we’d never go back to normal but my industry has resoundedly returned to in person conferences and trainings.
anon
The absolute worst. It is so hard to stay focused in a virtual conference.
Anon
The worst!
Anonymous
I feel for you: I also hate virtual conferences. How the h3ll am I supposed to focus for multiple hours when I can’t walk around, chat with other humans and casually binge coffee and snackies?
Anon
I hate them too. I signed up for the big annual law conference this year b/c they advertised it as in-person with a virtual option, but a week after the sign-up deadline closed they announced the whole thing would be virtual instead. No reduction in price, of course. I guess I’ll still ‘attend’ since I need the CLEs but I’m so sad about missing out on seeing colleagues who I haven’t seen in person now for almost 3 years. And I will absorb about 5% of the material. Blerg.
Anonymous
I actually like them. Travel was always such a huge time suck and I’d feel guilty nabbing only those sessions I was interested in with as much as my company was spending for me to be on site. Virtuals have allowed me to skim way more things than I would have been able to. I schedule as meeting time on my calendar so interruptions are at bay as much as possible and I try to only attend 3-4 hours in a day. I actually have felt I focus better. I’m less distracted by a cold room, what everyone around me is wearing, etc. I also don’t have my phone next to me so there is no temptation to try to multitask–trying to do both means neither will get done well.
anon
I’ve been invited to a 40th birthday party at a wine bar this weekend. I have pretty much forgotten how to dress for social occasions, haha. What would you wear? The birthday girl is going all out and wearing a cocktail dress, but I know others will be wearing jeans. I would like to find a middle point (do I even have that in my closet anymore)? It’s going to be cold, so not super interested in baring skin, lol.
Anon
I’d wear a pretty top that’s not your usual WFH tee or whatever, then whatever pants/skirt/jeans fit you and you feel good in right now. Mainly I’d say don’t overthink it.
My husband used to play in a couple of bar bands, so I was always keeping my eye out for tops like this – “going out” tops. I personally like a dark colored deep vee neck woven blouse with sleeves in some sort of satiny material.
Anonymous
Follow up request for links to such shirts! I have so many upcoming events that need “adult going out shirts” and I have nothing in between turtle neck sweaters and new years eve dresses.
Anon
A turtleneck is my winter going-out top. I do have a cute leather skirt though.
Also Anon
My favorite type of “going out” top is one with an illusion neckline. WHBM had this style in a few colors last season, they were sleeveless velvet shells with illusion necklines, and I loved it so much I bought it in both black and berry. They’re perfect with jeans, heels or booties, and a long mock-pearl necklace. If I were going the jeans + nice top look, I’d go with one of those.
AZCPA
I had the same need for going out shirts, but also realized I a) now dislike wearing jeans after so long in comfy WFH gear and b) the pants I do have look way too casual with fancy tops even when I can find them. So I now have two option in my closet, that I feel like I can dress up or down: tunic mini dresses from places like Anthropologie to wear with leggings (and even a shirt under if its really cold) and jumpsuits. Both outfit type can work with everything from flat boots to sandals to heels depending on event type and season.
Anon
I used to get mine from Loft. My husband’s bands have not played in bars for two years now!!
Mrs. Jones
Sweater dress and boots?
Anonymous
I’ve had good luck at Anthropologie and Evereve for more “fun” shirts/jackets.
Anonymous
This is easy. If there will be attire ranging from a cocktail dress to jeans, you can pretty much wear any outfit that makes you feel good and is not more formal than a cocktail dress. Find a fun top and coordinating pants or locate a non-suiting dress you like that fits. Voila!
MND
jeans, a cute top and boots. This os one area that I have had to relearn post-lockdown!
Anon
the law suits granting military members exemptions from the vaccine requirement based on religious objection. i thought that you have to have a reason based on a legitimate religion? it is my understanding that there are basically no mainstream religions that are anti vaccine, but maybe i’m wrong?
Anonymous
There are certain religions that can legitimately claim to be anti vaccine but these are very niche non mainstream religions (not listing them because I dont want to help people break the law). In my country if an individual is trying to claim ‘christianity’ for a religious exemption it would be rejected, only those belonging to the niche religions would get approvals.
InHouse Anon
Evaluating whether a service member has a sincerely held religious belief is different from determining the stance of a religious organization. So, a Catholic solider could claim exemption based on a sincerely held belief that the vaccine requires them to violate their beliefs regarding abortion, regardless of what the Pope has said. Then the military reviewers (lawyers, doctors, chaplains) have to evaluate and pass judgement on whether the service member’s belief is sincerely held. It’s a hot mess.
Anon for this
Any other ‘rettes struggle with avoidant attachment style and have any words of wisdom/recommendations for materials/etc? I’m already in individual therapy but due to schedules we can only meet every other week so it’s been a slow process.
I’ve always been extremely avoidant in relationships and in the past have chalked it up to the guy not being right for me and haven’t thought much about it. Now I’m dating someone that I really want to make it work with–he’s an amazing guy and we have a great connection, but anytime we’re physically apart I really struggle with obsessive thoughts devaluing him, doubting our relationship, interrogating any feeling of happiness/contentment, etc. I have a hard time figuring out if that is somehow a gut feeling I need to go with (despite no issues in the relationship) or if it’s fixable.
I love him a lot and dealing with this has been hard on me–I often get to the point where I want to break up with him just to quiet the brain noise. I was bummed out reading yesterday’s thread on happy marriages and the whole “if it’s not a hell yes it’s a no”. I’ve never had that feeling of security last longer than a few months in a relationship and sometimes I wonder if it’s just not something that will ever happen for me.
Anon
I get the advice about “if it’s not a hell yes, it’s a no” in theory, but think it’s very individual dependent. Nothing and no one will ever be a hell yes to me. That’s just not my personality. I don’t think I’m making a wrong choice with my fiancé, but some part of my still wonders. That’s just who I am.
Senior Attorney
I know everybody always recommends therapy here, but if you are having unwelcome intrustive thoughts, I think it’s time for some professional help.
OP
I am in therapy! But due to schedules I only see my therapist every two weeks so it’s a slow process. It’s been massively helpful but I also know there’s a lot of material out there on attachment style that may be useful for self-study
anon
I have an avoidant attachment style. I did therapy to get to a point where I understand and recognize my patterns. But I am still single so it’s a bit of a process.
Two resources I have bookmarked are the Free To Attach website and a journal article called “I have feelings too -the journey from avoidant to secure attachment”. I hope google gets these to come up for you as I have no idea how to link.
I agree with your take on the ‘hell yes or hell no’ advice. It’s not necessarily that simple for us. The tough part is that we struggle with being true to our feelings. So it might feel like it’s not ‘hell yes’, but actually that’s due to our own histories and trauma. Objectively it should be hell yes but we are getting in our own way. My advice is patience right now. Learn to sit with the discomfort while you continue therapy. Things do become clearer as you heal. This guy might not be the right one, but you will know that with more certainty once you have healed further.
OP
Thank you so much! I was able to find both of those pages and will check them out.
anon
https://www.freetoattach.com/solution-overview
free to attach website
anon
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/277093564_I_have_feelings_too_-_The_Journey_from_Avoidant_to_Secure_Attachment
article
Anon
So my heart is kind of breaking for you because you sound so much like I did in my head in relationships that sadly, just weren’t right. Amazing guys, felt great when we were together, but apart had a lot of anxiety and doubts about his feeling for me. Blamed my psychology, attachment styles, anxiety, depression, etc. Wasn’t any of those things. Just the wrong person. The right person will make you feel totally secure & all of those feelings you’re feelings just won’t emerge. I don’t know you, so it could be the way you relate to people, but if that’s not generally an issue for you in other non-romantic relationships, this may not be right for you. I do believe in the the “not a hell yes, it’s a no” because of going through what you’re describing a bunch of times until I didn’t.