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Updated: Apr 15, 2021 212 Comments · by

Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Ponte-Knit V-Neck Sheath Dress

The Personal Shopper (TPS)

This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

Public service announcement: This dress is less than $50, is available in multiple fabulous colors, and it has POCKETS. I love this cheery coral color — I’d wear it with a navy or gray topper if I needed to cover my arms. I also really like the jade green, and the black would be a great basic to have in the closet. The leopard print might be a bit much, even for me, but if you can pull it off, you have my deep respect.

The dress is $34–$39.99 and available in regular sizes XS–XXL, tall sizes S–XXL, and petite sizes XS–XL. Ponte-Knit V-Neck Sheath Dress

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Sales of note for 9.16.24

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About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. Anon

    I’ve finally invested in high-quality leather boots and my elderly cracked tin of Kiwi polish is not cutting it. What products do you use to clean and condition your leather shoes? Bonus points for products that hold up to harsh, salty winters.

    Also, regarding older boots, is there anything that will fix up faded, shabby-looking stacked wooden heels?

    (Searching the archives here mentions shoe trees, shoe horns, etc., but not specific cleaning or leather preservation products.)

    • Ellen

      This is an easy one. Use MINK OIL on your leather boots. You can start with Saddel Soap to clean, but MINK OIL is what gets leather soft again. I have my cleaneing lady and cobbler take care of this every Fall, so that they don’t get ruined in the NYC streets, where there is so much salt and poopie on the roads.

      I just saw on the Today show that we should stay 6 feet away from people and that the Corona Virus is everywhere other then Antartica. We should not sit at a restrunt table if someone is coughing nearby, and the subway is not a place for people with immune systems. The manageing partner is not coming in today at all, so I will not go in until about 11, b/c I have no conferences and I am now working from home anyway.
      I hope the HIVE is holding up and Myrna will be coming over tonite so we can stay in and watch Netflix. This way, we will be protected from the virus.

    • anon

      I like the kinds of polish that come in a tube with a sponge in the front, I think they are often called shoe cream. Also love the ones with beeswax, cause they smell great.
      More important than the brand of polish is that you take care of your shoes on a regular basis. If they see snow and salt, you want to wipe them down often and reapply polish regularly.

    • NOLA

      I would take your stacked heel boots to a cobbler and see what they can do. I took my beaten up studded combat boots to the cobbler after Mardi Gras and had them cleaned and shined up and they look amazing.

        • NOLA

          Absolutely. I had a pair of red patent kitten heels that were totally worn and needed a whole new sole. They looked new after the cobbler worked on them. The only issue with my boots was that he thought the heels were black, when they actually had a metal plate on them. He had to remove the polish from the metal.

        • KS IT Chick

          Yes, they can.

          The one I used most recently said to use Doc Marten Wonder Balsa on the leather for regular maintenance once he did the professional polish on them. So far, I am happy with the results.

      • lsw

        +1. I also get my nicest leather shoes cleaned/polished at the cobbler after winter/spring.

      • Anon

        Thanks, I’ll see if I can find a good one that accepts mail-ins. There isn’t a cobbler with two hours’ drive of me.

        • Anon

          My friend recently used Shoe Drop and a few of us all sent shoes in. They did a good job, although they fixed a pair of boots of mine that they probably should have refused. The leather is now way too tight and I can’t even really wear them, although the repair job itself looks great.

    • all about eevee

      You need Chamberlain’s Leather Milk. There’s a kit on Amazon that comes with a bottle of cleaner, a bottle of conditioner and two little microfiber pads. I recommend that kit. I clean and condition all nice leather bags and shoes quarterly.

  2. Ellen

    I forgot to congratulate you, Elizabeth, for this great Frugel Friday pick. The dress has both a high collar and sleeves, which prevents leeches like Frank from getting cheap looks at our boobies. I will always yearn for the day when I do not have to cover up just to protect against men’s peering eyes (and hands) on my body. FOOEY on men that are married and use us for their cheap thrills. That is what they have wives for. When I have my own husband, I will reserve my body for him and will be happy to provide him satisfaction of his carnal needs, but NOT any schlep on the street or in the office. FOOEY on those leeches!

  3. Another anonymous judge

    Hello! For me this link does not work. Not that I need another sheath dress but…

  4. Vicky Austin

    Alright y’all, talk to me about clothing budgets if you have one. How do you decide what you want to spend money on? Do you keep a list, like “navy pants, black cardigan, white shirt”, or just wing it?

    • Anon

      I don’t buy things until I absolutely find that I cannot do without something (as in I literally will not have any pants to wear to work if I don’t buy anything soon). It’s worked pretty well but I am not that fashionable and hate shopping. I just recommend it from a budget and environmental perspective.

    • Cb

      I mostly have a mental list of gaps (and the max I’ll pay) and then wing the rest. I wear dresses 90% of the time which does make things simpler.

    • pugsnbourbon

      I have a capsule-ish wardrobe and I keep a list. Usually I’m replacing worn items – for example, this year I’ve picked up new black pants and black boots.
      I have a general price range based on the anticipated wear for each piece. So I’ll spend more on basic shoes and pants, but I spend as little as possible on tops because I’m clumsy and spill/drip things.

    • H13

      I keep a list of things I need vs. things I want. I also add links to things I’ve seen so when the time comes, I don’t have to search too long and know what I am willing to spend. I also keep a pinterest board for things I see so that if at some point I really want/need something, there are options. It scratches the shopping itch and helps me focus on buying higher quality stuff. I used to be prone to throwing things in my cart at Target or buying because of sales and this has really helped me curb spending and up the quality of my clothes.

    • anne-on

      I started keeping a list of ‘gaps’ so I can keep an eye out for them/check ‘last call’ type of sales. It also helps me know what’s a ‘unicorn’ item that I may need to pay up for vs. what is pretty easily available and I can spend less on. Suiting dresses with sleeves, thick wool pencil skirts, or a thick work-appropriate washable ponte dress? Snap them up when I see them on sale (20% or more and I’ll buy them). Standard sleeveless sheath dress in navy/grey/black, eh, wait and buy it when they are on deep discount at Ann Taylor/Jcrew/Loft/etc…

    • anon

      I also have a need vs. want list. Basics often end up on the need list. The want list is essentially anything that strikes my fancy. I’ve tried to limit myself to shopping once per season — that way, it’s easier to find pieces/colors that coordinate and it keeps me from mindlessly browsing the sales. With this approach, I’m not always hitting the sales perfectly but I’m spending the same — sometimes less — overall.

      I used to just wing it, and that was a disaster. So many clothes, many of which didn’t work together.

    • Anon

      My wardrobe is centered around “what do I love” and “what is very practical”. I have multiple colors of blouses, pants, and blazers that fit me well, all in solids, and random off shoots that bring me joy (gold flats, weird crazy pattern purse, rainbow sequin purse). I only consider budget in terms of “will this fit into my fun money or extra money for the month”. I’ve found having a “clothing budget” too restrictive and just have a budget that sets a portion apart for known bills/grocery budget, a portion apart for savings, and a portion apart for spending on whatever I want.

    • Belle Boyd

      One of the blogs I read (may have been CapHillStyle? I can’t recall right now without going back and looking) recently recommended making a list of the things you need to replace or things you’d like to add to your wardrobe as we’re coming up on the end of the season and those items are likely to be on sale. I never really thought about it, but this is a good idea. This time of year, I’m tired of all my sweaters and winter clothes and just want to chuck everything into storage, but this suggestion made me think — I should really look at what I have NOW, decide how well it has worked for me over the last season, and make a list of things that need replacing. Even if I don’t find things now, I’ll have a list in hand for the fall and will be able to take advantage of sales with some idea in mind of what I actually need. Shopping has been a real issue/struggle for me lately, so a list might really help me.

      One thing I’m always looking for are the perfect black pants (or close to perfect, or even somewhere-in-the-ballpark-perfect.) Aren’t we all?

      • Anon

        This is similar to what I do. At the end of every season I figure out what I may need for that season next year based on what I wore out. I live in a four-season climate and so my wardrobe needs are pretty different based on the season – we have hot summers and cold winters and little of what I need in the winter works in the summer. Once I figure out what I need, I buy it on clearance at end-of-season sales (or at thrift stores) and store it for the next year.

        I don’t buy very many trend items any more, as I’ve gotten older and care less about what’s on-trend. I do periodically update basic pieces based on what’s current – like when ankle pants came in and I changed out all my bootcut or wider-leg work pants. I don’t notice what people wear very often, but I do notice when people wear things that are 10 or 15 years behind the times and I don’t want people noticing me for that reason.

        As far as budgeting goes, I have a budget each month for “like to have” items and that can be applied to clothes, things for the house, etc. I spend $50-$75 on clothes every other month.

    • Anon

      I don’t have a budget (I probably should) but I generally have an idea of what clothing items I need for each season and what items need to be replaced. I have a tiny closet so I only keep the clothes I’m currently wearing in it, everyone else goes in storage. At the beginning of each season I’ll take last year’s clothes out of storage and go through them, pitching anything that is worn or doesn’t fit anymore and make notes of what I need. I tend to wear the same types of items each season and rarely deviate so it makes shopping easy. In the winter I’ll stock up on new cashmere sweaters and jeans, in the summer I’ll buy dresses.

    • anon

      I don’t have a set budget, but I go by needs and priorities, with a feel for other family priorities. I probably spend about $300 per quarter. Right now, I know my next purchase will be a new suit because my black suit has shiny elbows. I have a general idea of how much I want to spend on that, and I’ll keep an eye out for sales in brands that work well for me and buy in April or May. That will be a pretty major purchase for me, so I won’t buy many other clothes this spring. (But in January and February, I bought a pair of jeans, a maxi dress, a pair of leggings and 2 workout shorts, a rain coat and a new bathing suit and cover up–all for about the same as I’ll likely spend on a suit.)

    • Anonymous

      At the beginning of each season, I toss all my work clothes onto the bed, and assemble them into outfits. If I have ten outfits made with pants, a top, and a jacket/swacket/sweater, and five made with a dress, I don’t need to shop. If I am under, I write a list of what I need to add so orphan pieces become an outfit. My shopping list is then really detailed: a top to pull together a specific jacket and pants or a sweater to go with a specific dress. Then I know I can roll for the whole season without much thought to my wardrobe. In terms of spend, I start at lower cost options and then work my way up until I find what I need. That can mean starting with brands I like that are NWT on a resale site and then moving up to more expensive options. That way I don’t feel like I overspent.

  5. Anonymous Thank You

    For a happy Friday thought I want to send a big shout out to every woman on this s!te who has ever been supportive and concerned for our fellow Rettes w.r.t. depression. In hindsight I can say that I’ve been mildly depressed for quite some time. But it was the constant, supportive, narrative that appears here that made it finally click for me. I’m sure Kat has some good web diagnostics for someone searching this s!te for any post or comment ever dealing with depression… but it was from scouring those posts/comments that gave me the courage and information to finally go breakdown in front of my PCP and get on the path to recovery. I’m honestly not sure I would have been able to name what was going on with me or know what to say to my doctor without you all. I’m 4 weeks into therapy and a good antidepressant, and it feels as if a curtain has been lifted. Everything isn’t back to “normal” yet, but I can see the light and I’m in a much better place. So, from the bottom of my heart, thank you.

    • lsw

      This is great news! And I +1 you. I’ve been in talk therapy for a while but this community helped me get strong/brave enough to ask about antidepressants, and Wellbutrin has been a game-changer for me.

    • anony

      What a nice post. Congrats on taking the plunge, and thanks for sharing with us. Your post will help someone else, I’m sure.

    • anne-on

      That’s amazing – good for you! I will say I also started light therapy and upped my dose of Wellbutrin and it really was a HUGE help this winter.

    • Anonymous

      That’s such good news! This Internet stranger is proud of you for taking care of yourself!

    • AnonToday

      That is so great and a huge step!
      I would also like to thank those of you who openly discuss your partner’s/friend’s mental health issues on here, because that finally gave me the courage to discuss it with my husband and encourage him to get help.

  6. Anon for this

    I’ve seen a few questions about how to have the DTR talk, but my question is a little different. I’m 38 and have been dating someone (also 38) exclusively for about three months. No question on either side that this is a serious relationship with a long-term future. My partner’s last relationship ended about two years ago. It was also serious, It lasted for four years, and I know they talked about engagement, but they never actually got there. When do you think it’s reasonable to ask about timelines and how would you do so? I don’t want my partner to feel pressured or like they are being given an ultimatum, but I would also like to have a child (and would like to be married when that happens). At 38, I don’t have time to figure things out for years.

    • Anon

      At 38, I think it would be completely normal to have that conversation after dating exclusively for 3 months. Have you discussed whether you both want kids? If not, I think those two conversations can go hand-in-hand. And if you do know he wants kids, it’s fair to ask his timing.

      Frankly, at 35, I would want to know that sooner than later. It’s too early to discuss with my new boyfriend that I’ve been seeing for a month, but it’s already in the back of my mind. But having children is very important to me, I was considering being a single mother before we met, and I’m not sure I would stay with him if our timelines are way different (like if he doesn’t want kids for another 4 or 5 years).

    • Anon

      I think after three month of exclusive dating at age 38, it’s perfectly reasonable to ask about timelines for marriage and children. A discussion is not an ultimatum.

    • JustAThought...

      Would you consider freezing your eggs? I met my husband at 36, married at 38 and, after some fertility struggles had our first kid when I was 40. We’re now trying for #2 at 41 and it’s a struggle. I wish I had frozen some eggs in my mid-30s… Also, egg freezing has a bad reputation but I think it’s gotten a lot better (there is a newish process, vitrification, which has improved the survival of frozen eggs). May be worth at least a meeting with a reproductive endocrinologist.

      • anon

        A lot of places won’t freeze eggs of women in their mid-late thirties. Not because the women themselves are over the hill, but because the quality of the eggs after being frozen and then thawed is pretty poor. It’s a lot of money for very iffy return.

        • anon

          This is only somewhat true – but the flip side is, if you don’t freeze at all, you’ll never know if those eggs could lead to a baby. For me personally, freezing eggs was better than doing nothing at all. Granted, I was fortunate to be in a financial position to do so, which I know not everyone can.

      • Anonymous

        I would also recommend going in for the appointment and pursuing it. Some places won’t do it, but many will. But I wouldn’t use it as a substitute for moving things along quickly if that’s what you want. There are never guarantees and your egg quality may not be great now. We froze embryos together (if you’re both on board enough to do this, may make sense bc they’re stronger than eggs on their own) and were grateful when trying for #2.

      • OP

        Unfortunately, this isn’t really an option for me financially right now. Thank you for the thought though!

      • anon

        Agree with checking out egg freezing. I froze mine at 35 and I am now 11 weeks pregnant with #2 at 41. So, so glad my friend pushed me to do this. At the time, I remember feeling vaguely offended that she was pressuring me to do it, thinking that I had plenty of time, but she was completely right – I didn’t. 38 is probably at the edge of when it still makes sense to do it, but it’s worth seeking a consult with an RE to see if it’s an option for you.

        • Anon Lawyer

          If you’re committed to a partner, genetically tested embryos are a better bet than frozen eggs too. (Sounds like it doesn’t make sense for the OP financially but might for other women.). 2 genetically normal embryos give you a quite good shot at a baby.

          • anon

            Yes, frozen embryos are definitely a safer bet, but even aside from finances, if you’re in the early stages of a rel’ship, embryos often don’t make sense (as it sounds for OP). If you can freeze a large number of eggs, you have a pretty decent shot at a baby. I froze 19 and wound up with 3 embryos after all was said and done.

  7. Anon

    The link doesn’t work for me but I think this is an Old Navy dress? I have this dress in several different colours/styles and it’s fabulous and looks way more expensive than it actually is.

    • pugsnbourbon

      It is an Old Navy dress. I have a similar sleeveless one from a couple years ago (sans pockets, sadly). It looks fine and so far has resisted pilling. If I still wore dresses to work I’d be tempted by that bright green version.

    • In-House in Houston

      I like the dress but it’s a little too short to wear to work. Great pick for the weekend though!

    • Anonymous

      It is the Old Navy dress! I have the leopard version and love it. The non-V sheaths did not work for me (pear).

    • anon

      How is the fabric? For whatever reason, I find some ponte fabrics to be either itchy or not breathable. But I can see this being such a good basic that I’m tempted.

      • Anonymous

        It’s fine. I have ponte dresses costing >100 and that fabric pilled from the seatbelt on my car. Also had good luck with Talbots (years of wear; so sad when my size changed) and Uniqlo (although there ponte was more of a thin streatchy twill).

      • Anon

        I don’t think it’s “true” ponte fabric – it feels more like just thick cotton.

        • Anonymous

          It’s got a lot of poly in it. I bought a pattern so I am not likely to notice it unless it is major. Thinking about the black (b/c qualify matters less in dark colors) just because it would be nice to have something I can wear at “I might ruin it” events (e.g., teaching Sunday school) and then be out only $30 or so.

      • Anon.

        It is holding up fabulously. I have 3 of those dresses, and the ones from 3-4 years ago hold up really well.

      • Anon.

        It’s mid-knee length for me at 5’6″”, and I have a somewhat long torso and shorter legs. The regular version is ok to wear leisurely, but just a smidge too short for the office bare-legged (but I wear regular length in winter with opaque tights).

  8. Ann Perkins!

    I’m curious about how kids have affected your careers. For those of you who have kids: What field are you in? When did you have kids (and how many)? How did pregnancy, maternity leave and having small children affect your career in the short term? And how did it affect it in the long term? Not a mom (yet) but looking to the future and it’s always fun to hear about other people’s lives. Happy Friday!

    • Ann Perkins! (OP)

      Also, what field are you in, and at what level when you had children?

    • Anonymous

      Govt lawyer. First kid at 31, twins at 34. Got pregnant within two months each time, no fertility treatments or miscarriages. No direct family history of twins. Twins are way harder than I thought they would be. I never planned to have three kids. I 100% realize how lucky I am to get pregnant easily and have healthy kids – my sister had 6 pregnancies, resulting in 3 miscarriages, 1 still birth and my 2 nephews.

      The biggest thing I wish I knew prior to being a parent is how little control you have over what that journey looks like. You don’t know if you’ll get pregnant right away and have more kids than you planned, get pregnant easily but struggle to carry to term, or struggle for years with infertility. You don’t know if your kids will be healthy or have medical issues. Accepting the lack of control you have over the situation and being at peace with that is key.

      I chose to work somewhere known to be family friendly right out of law school. It’s more than 50% female and most of the women have kids. Super flexible on face time as only as work gets done. Pre-twins I was being promoted much more. I actually turned down a promotion shortly after coming back from maternity leave, and doing that has sidetracked my career a bit. I’m fine with leaning out now as I’m taking a long view on my career.

    • Mediocre Dude

      It didn’t; not at all.

      Actually, maybe it helped because now I am seen as stable and a provider. And unlike someone who works for pin money, I need it, so the bros at work make sure that my comp reflects that.

      • anne-on

        Laugh crying at this over here….ugh
        One manager at one point during my bonus/comp discussion looked at my engagement ring/wedding band and said something like, ‘well, I know you don’t really neeeed the additional money, but I’ll see what I can do…’

    • anon

      I’m on the staff side of higher ed. When my kids were little, I leaned back in terms of networking and being involved in extras of any kind. I had the power to make it an 8 to 5 job, and for the most part, I did. What surprised me most is that my mental bandwidth and overall energy shrank for awhile. I was keeping up with my work, but for a good, long while, I just couldn’t handle anything extra. I know I wasn’t proposing tons of new ideas and projects during that time.

      Then there was the middle period, in which my boss was retiring and my youngest was 1. Boss had groomed me to take her position, but I saw how many extra hours she was putting in and couldn’t imagine making it work with my life. So I deferred for awhile. That was a rough time professionally because it forced me to acknowledge that I wasn’t the go-getter I once was, and I felt like I had let my mentor down. My gut was telling me I didn’t have the mental or emotional capacity to level up.

      Long story about how it happened, but I’m now in that former boss’s position. My kids are in school now, so it feels more doable. I have a lot more mental bandwidth. I have the seniority that gives me a tad bit more flexibility if I need to leave early a few days a week; I can make up the time somewhere else. More importantly, I had to have a huge mindset shift that I needed to actually use my vacation benefits and get away from the office sometimes. Partly to be with my kids, who remain the priority, but also to stave off burnout.

      Now that I’m 10 years into being a working mom, what I can say is this: It did get easier. The early years *were* hard in every way, and I constantly questioned whether I was doing the right thing by staying in the workforce. From a financial and career standpoint, I’m glad I did, but I’d be lying if I said that it was easy or that I’ve never had doubts and regrets. I still don’t think I’m as career driven as I was pre-kids, but I’m OK with that. My priorities have changed. I can still be successful even if I’m not at the top. (It also helps that those positions no longer interest me. I want to be closer to the “real work,” if you will.)

      Be open, be flexible, go easy on yourself. And have a really good partner who values your career and is as into managing the home front as you are.

      • anon

        Oh, and I should’ve mentioned: Having childcare that is reliable and trust 100% is essential. For as much angst as I had about my working-mom life early on, I never doubted that my kids were well-cared-for. We’ve used daycares the whole time, which is fairly standard in my area. The nanny market is small and not affordable for most.

    • Anon

      There are “week in the life” posts on the mom’s page that might give you some insight.

      For me, I only have one kid who is only 2 so this is more of the short term view than the long term. I feel like motherhood affected my career quite a bit, but it was mostly due to decisions I made and not external factors. I knew I didn’t want to work long hours or do a lot of travel with small kids, so I chose to lean out into a 9-5 job with minimal travel before I got pregnant (which I know is a risk, but I was sort of ready to lean out, kids or not, and in hindsight it worked out great because I got pregnant quickly and was glad I’d had a year at the job to establish myself pre-pregnancy). I was lucky and had no nausea and minimal fatigue, so pregnancy didn’t affect my work performance too much. The first year back after maternity leave was surprisingly manageable, although I got lucky and had a baby who was sleeping through the night before I went back to work, which is pretty rare in the US since we have such short leaves. The second year has actually been harder for me so far because this is my child’s first winter in daycare and we’ve all been sick pretty much constantly – I feel like I’m getting absolutely nothing done at work because I’m constantly either sick myself or taking care of a sick child. So far my boss seems very understanding, but I feel guilty about it.

      I’m not there yet, but I know another big transition happens when kids start elementary school. Daycare is comparatively easy for working parents – you pay dearly for it, but you have year-round, full-time childcare, with minimal parental involvement expected during the workweek. K-12 school is totally different. I expect I’ll lean out again when my child goes to kindergarten. My ideal would be to drop to 75% time and keep public school hours (9-3), but if my employer doesn’t agree to that, I’ll probably quit to stay home and do freelance work, which won’t replace even a 75% income, but will let me keep my foot in the door. I didn’t have a SAHM but I had a mom (with a very important career) who took a huge career step back to raise me – she took a 2 year unpaid leave of absence to be home for my first two years, and then she returned to work part-time and was always home with me in the afternoons after school. Having that time with her and quiet time to myself (as an introvert, I would have been miserable in aftercare) was a really wonderful part of my childhood, and I would like to the do the same for my kid. (Fwiw, my mom went back to full time when I was in middle school, and has now become a nationally-recognized figure in her field, albeit a decade or so later than she would have if she hadn’t had me. The career step back definitely cost her financially, but she’s never been motivated by money, and she’s one of the few women I know who really feels she “had it all” in terms of both raising her family the way she wanted and achieving all her career goals).

      I think I’m fortunate in this regard, but I don’t think I’ve faced any discrimination at work for being a mom. My raises have been the same or better since becoming a mom, and I’ve been treated the same by my colleagues both pre- and post-kid.

    • Cb

      Academic, had baby and PhD submission in the same month (at age 32), and started a post-doc when I came back from maternity leave. Career-wise, I think it mostly impacts me in terms of what comes next. I’m not as geographically flexible as my younger, single, or childless colleagues which will impact me long-term. I also can’t work the extreme hours some of my colleagues are working, but honestly, I know people who work 70 hours a week and some who work 45 and there seems to be no correlation between hours and results.
      Things that helps? A boss with kids, great childcare, and a husband who does 50-50, and frankly 80-20 on sick days.
      I’ll only have the one though, and that’s motivated by the personal feeling that my family is complete, some health concerns, financial and career impacts.

      • Anon

        Very similar story and impacts for me. I had twins 11 months into my postdoc at age 30 and my research productivity definitely tanked that year, but is now reasonably back on par with my colleagues 3 years later. I am lucky in that I have a very flexible job (I don’t regularly spend 40 hours in my office, but make up time after bedtime and during weekend naps) and a supportive partner, but my career prospects are still limited by where I’m willing to move and the kind of job I’m willing to take (e.g. not anything where I’d spend all summer at a remote field station), which is due to having a spouse and kids.

    • So Anon

      In house attorney. Two kids – 6 and 9. I had my oldest while a litigation associate in biglaw. The firm offered amazing benefits to new parents, and I was highly penalized for using those benefits, specifically, coming back to work part-time. The head of litigation sent around a nasty email to the other partners forwarding my request to use the return to work program, and I was not given work for my three months. (Fellow associate saw the email.) I left the firm about 18 months after returning from leave. I get that YMMV, but this was a firm known for not treating women well in general, and it played out when I came back from leave. I had been at the firm for 3 years prior. As is said often with regard to partners, if the firm is showing you who they are (no female partners), believe that you will be treated similarly.
      I had my second while clerking, and it was a totally different ballgame. I had no paid leave other than sick time, but because of the different and incredibly supportive environment, it was wonderful. I stayed with my clerkship for several years. My co-clerk had kids who were a few years ahead of me, the judge had small grandchildren, and our JA was also a grandmother. Having small children absolutely did not impact my time with the judge and gave me the opportunity to learn how other mothers handle this juggle. I even managed to pump while I was in trial, where we only had 2 15-20 minute breaks from 7:30-3:00.
      I am now in house, in a corporate legal role, and I absolutely love it. The company I work for is amazing. I put my kids on the bus every morning. Two nights per week I have a babysitter get them off the bus and stay until 7. This gives me time to do extra work, workout, run errands, etc. I work from home two days, which really helps. I work long hours on occasion, but my company doesn’t care when or where those hours happen. If I need to do extra work, I do it after the kids are in bed or before they get up. I am working my tail off and growing in my role here. I recently started a mentorship with the president of the company and may take a pseudo-business role for a few years to really grow. And I’m a single mom, and my kids’ dad is not involved in their lives.
      The early years can be rough because it is so physically demanding. Now it is challenging in a different way, as in how do I explain COVID to a 9 year old in a way he understands. I am still exhausted, but so happy with where things are. While I think my ambition dropped for a while, I have felt it come back with more force in the last year. I

    • Seafinch

      Military lawyer in Canada. Practiced privately for almost a decade before joining. Now posted into a litigation unit. Four kids, just came back from mat leave. I started relatively late and when I was new in this org at 32. 42 now. Seven pregnancies. In addition to four, one year mat leaves, I took an extra year leave without pay to accompany my husband on a foreign posting. This means in a decade I have only actually worked five years. I was a pretty ambitious streamer before kids. I, obviously, parked that. It has been a tough pill to swallow (personally and ego-wise) and while my colleagues and the organization, in general, respect and value my work I have been vocal that I am not interested in promotion and they would have assumed that based on my decisions. It was the only way to maximize attainment of my goals. I am very happy with great pay, great benefits, fascinating work and they seem fairly happy to leave me in what they consider a very unsexy job they have to fill but no one wants (too civilianized for the hard military types). Because I am not competing for the plum posts and promotion they can live with it. I will need to follow my husband again in two years and they will suck it up and let me go because I am the trailing spouse based on seniority (even though I make a lot more money than him and am junior in rank) and that means his organization pays for the move. It has taken a decade for me to reconcile I am not the professional go-getter I used to be. I have my moments of nostalgia but I have the life I want. My husband does 90% of the sweat equity at home. He is extremely hands on and the default parent for a lot. I do the higher level management and organization, strategic planning etc. I do all food related tasks. He does everything else: diapers, baths, bedtimes, breakfasts and lunches, dishes, house maintenance, laundry, kids’ activities and medical appointments, except for when deployed for six months this year which was absolute HELL. We have an Au Pair (which functions more like a nanny in Canada). Couldn’t have lived without it. I second a hands on spouse and childcare that works for you. I could not ever cope with daycare and our life is pretty stress-free, if not perhaps boring.

    • Anon

      In finance, had kids mid 30s. I don’t feel like having kids affected my career at all, and I have a pretty structured can’t-work-from-home need-to-be-here-specific-times job. What has helped for me has been a husband who does (for the most part) his share, and lucking out with great daycares and preschools where we prioritized hours open & location convenience rather than worrying about minor differences in curriculum or whatever (although if safety of care was in question that would obviously also be prioritized, luckily hasn’t been an issue). I for the most part pick my own travel and I do travel less than before, kind of by choice since it can be such a thing for my also working husband, but I don’t know if that even has had a negative effect on my career. I also go to almost no society type networking group events in the evenings, so who’s to say if that would’ve been better for me if I did. Not to worry you though, if I needed to make either of those things happen more frequently I technically could figure it out I’m sure.

      My observation has been that as long as a fairly standard maternity leave is taken, it feels in the moment to you the mom like such. A. big. thing. when often the reality is that over the span of your career it is SUCH a blip that no one else cares about it nearly as much as you likely think in the moment. (I am sure this is not completely universally true, but it was for me).

      Good for you for asking about this, for me I was on the fence about even having kids until some of my most high powered female friends had kids and I saw it was doable.

    • anonso

      I work in marketing, am in my mid 30s, and have one toddler. Having a child certainly adds extra stress and exhaustion into the picture, but it’s also incredible to see your child grow into a person step by step and light up your world and those you around you with smiles, hugs, laughter, first words, and all the other milestones you get to experience together. I’m lucky in that I have a supportive boss who is also a mother, and I work from home full-time, which gives me added flexibility and less stress. I also have a daycare that I trust and have come to feel really good about.

      I’m not sure what my career progression holds. Although I’ve always felt really driven on a personal level, my career hasn’t always fulfilled me or rewarded me in the way I had hoped. For me, I’m aiming for a more balanced life and view my career as a marathon, not a sprint. Being a parent has highs and lows, but I think it also humbles you in a good way and gives you a deeper appreciation for the burdens and hopes everyday people carry.

    • CPA Lady

      I’m a tax accountant. I have one 5 year old kid who is an only child by choice.

      I was working in a high stress, long hours, lots of outside expectations large regional firm when I got pregnant and had my kid. Pregnancy didn’t affect my career. I ended up leaving that firm when my kid was about 15 months old. My husband was working nights and weekends doing tech shift work and we couldn’t figure out how to make it all work. So I left to go work in a firm that is much smaller, much less stressful, but has fewer opportunities.

      In the short term I was really upset but also relieved. I loved a lot of things about the job I left, but I couldn’t really have a life when I was working those kinds of hours. I was so angry at myself for being the stereotype of a woman who leans out in her career (while her husband succeeds) the minute she has a baby. I didn’t realize that I would actually want to see my child and spend time with her when I was making all my “I’ll never be that person who backs off her career” statements while working 70 hours a week when I was pregnant.

      In the long term, my role at the small firm has actually been fantastic. I’ve gotten to do a lot more of the kind of work I was interested in, I’ve gotten the kind of extra experience you get at a smaller firm where you do more as a more junior person (I went from never having client contact to almost independently managing 100+ clients), and someone ended up leaving the firm and I got promoted to a management position along the same timeline I would have if I would have stayed in my previous job. I’m also making as much money and working way fewer hours.

      As an added bonus, my husband’s career has really really taken off to the point where he’s senior enough to now have additional flexibility too. It was a rough several years getting to this place, but we’re at a really good place right now. I could easily go back to a more strenuous job but I don’t really want to at the current moment. I like our life how it is.

    • Boston Legal Eagle

      The best thing you can do for your future working parent self is to 1. make sure that your partner will be 100% all in on his/her role as co-parent and 2. find good support systems, including good childcare and grandparents or sitters nearby. Can working moms do it all themselves? Sure, but of the coworkers I’ve seen, those who continue to progress in their careers while maintaining some sanity don’t also have traveling spouses/no family support/inflexible jobs. At the same time, be aware that becoming a parent may change your mindset about always striving for the next thing on the ladder.

      I’m early 30s, two kids who I had in the last 4 years, in-house attorney. The year after my first was born was very difficult as I had to start a new job, with a boss who didn’t get it, and while also figuring out life as a working parent. Now, I have more work responsibilities but my life is actually a lot better as I’ve progressed in my career and have more autonomy and flexibility, parent hand-in-hand with my spouse, and have the support of my parents nearby and also a great daycare. I’m also pretty content staying where I am for now and not necessarily climbing the career ladder, and my husband feels the same. I hear it gets easier when they get older but little kids are definitely exhausting so make sure you have as much support as you can.

    • anon for this

      Mid-senior federal government employee. Had only kid after 6 years with my agency. At that point I had worked really hard to establish myself and had a good bit of work capital to buffer me. I took a long leave and had an easy ramp-back. I was not prepared for just how many sick days happened in the first two years, even with DH handling half (maybe more than half). It magically stopped around 20 months and has been easier since then. I can’t imagine being new at a job and not having the sick leave or the flexibility to handle that.

      I changed agencies when my kid was 3 and I was very mindful that I no longer had the build-up goodwill that comes from being somewhere a long time. I am fortunate that my boss is extremely family-friendly and flexible, but I have to leave by 5:05 every day for daycare pickup and sometimes I feel guilty that I can’t stay an extra 30-60 minutes to just finish something in the moment. It makes me feel like a clock-watcher and I hate it. At both places I was much more choosy about travel and conferences than pre-kid, and I miss the chance to network and learn on a different level. (And once you are a parent, a quiet night in a hotel room away is bliss!)

    • Anonymous

      I had one kid already when I decided to go to law school. Then had another one after graduation and taking the bar exam, but before starting my job. Then a third a few years into practicing. I think because I already had one kid, I never really dealt with the question of how will having kids affect my job. I already had one and so it was already sort of built in that I would only take jobs that were compatible with the kind of life I already had. I am a government appellate lawyer and have been for my whole career (11 years now.) Appellate work is of course less hectic than trial work and although I have a lot of cases and work hard, it for the most part allows me to manage my time in a way that works for me and my family.

    • Anon

      I had kids when I was 36 and 37. Three months after our first was born my husband lost his job. I was and am the primary earner in our household, so after his 6 months of looking for work and not finding anything, with part time daycare for our older child, and also finding out I was pregnant with our second (and that’s why they say birth control is 97% effective!) he ended up staying at home with our kids until our youngest was old enough for preschool at 2 years 9 months.

      Being a mom might have slowed my career a bit but my kids were also born during a regional mini-recession (2001) so it’s hard to tell. I know people perceived my go-getterness as faltering but I didn’t feel differently about how much I was willing to put in. Since I was pregnant back to back I swear there were some coworkers who thought it was all the same pregnancy – people are really not all that observant – so we’re surprised to hear I had two babies if it ever came up.

      My career fully recovered once my kids were grade school age. My husband does ok but never really got his salary back up after leaving the working world for a few years. That said, he’s not very career driven so that is undoubtedly part of it.

      I have made choices in my career that revolve around not moving my family for job opportunities of mine that I think similarly situated men would have done differently. “Honey, pack the house, we’re moving! I got promoted!” would just never fly in my world. In fact, I’m kind of in that situation now, but I’m not moving with my youngest kid a year and a bit from graduating high school.

      I traveled a lot (because I wouldn’t relocate) when my kids were elementary school age, and I have some regrets about it, but I remind myself that this is the kind of thing male breadwinners wouldn’t think twice about.

    • Anonymous

      My oldest is 5, so that’s as long term as I can look. In the immediate- I was promoted to partner while on maternity leave. Awesome firm. All the income partners had little kids and almost all the equity partners had kids And I don’t think any other partners in my cohort have left, women or men. But I realized the litigation lifestyle was not going to work for me and my own health and the way I wanted my own family life to be. Went in house to a jd-preferred role that was at first a steep pay cut but has caught up over time. Except in occasional periods it’s strictly 8-5, weekday work with a lot of flexibility. Kudos to new company where also promoted immediately after returning from maternity leave and, again, my current cohort in my department all has been promoted with tiny children. I’m not sure where this new career ends up long term – do I want to keep going up the corporate ladder? Stay in middle management forever? No idea — so I think it will be interesting to look back at that aspect in 20 years. Had I stayed in my former field I could easily have stayed at the same firm my entire career , or broken off to start my own, but the options seemed a little more clear.

  9. Anonymous

    Anyone have any experience hiring or working with someone to “deal with the estate” of a deceased person? This is a pretty high level question so any data is helpful.

    Background: my mom is offering to help a friend of a friend whose parent died. She’s doing the drudge work like showing up to probate, packing up the house so it can go on the market, helping sort through decades of junk. The person’s estate itself isn’t large. It’s maybe a $300k home owned outright plus another $100k-200k in misc assets. The family just doesn’t want to / can’t /hasn’t dealt with things.

    Is this a $1k service? $10k service value? Some % of the total estate? I’m sure it’s super dependent on complexity or volume of junk, but I have no data at all so any insight is helpful.

    She’s not charging, but I need to have a bigger lucite conversation with my mom about Things and this would be useful info to have.

    • anne-on

      Is there a reason she wouldn’t charge hourly? This is one of those things where so much of the work seems to be time and resource intensive, which seems suited to an hourly charge. I can’t say what that would be for your region, but I’d assume double whatever a good babysitter is? at least?

      • Anonymous

        The question isn’t really about how much she should charge but if “babysitter or more, by the hour” is how stuff like this is done, that is useful and can help provide context to the value of what she’s doing.

        The actual convo I need to have with her is about dealing with her own personal $hit before others, and no, it’s not “worth it” from a financial standpoint. But this specific thing is one of many things she uses as an excuse for why she hasn’t done basic things for herself/her own estate. The other stuff she does I have more of an understanding of the value.

    • Anonymous

      I was tracking with you until I got to the “lucite conversation”(??) and that your mom isn’t charging. If she’s taking on this HUGE task for a friend of a friend, and not charging, then there are a whole lot of dynamics going on here.
      If your mom is willing to do something like this for people she doesn’t even know, how will knowing a fact like how much someone else might charge help her or change her?

    • anon

      Probate—lawyer at $300ish an hour.
      Cleaning out a hoarded house so it could be sold. I handed over the keys and a list of things I wanted shipped to me. They shipped things to me, arranged the sale of some sellable items, took the photos to someone to scan, disposed of most of the stuff: around 20k

      I contemplated going with someone who had never done this scope of work before for the cleanout and I am really glad I went with the professionals who could work quickly. It was impossible to adequately insure the house after my parent died—the umbrella insurance was personal to my parent and no one would write a new umbrella policy for the house.

    • Texan In Exile

      A friend owns an estate-sale business. He tells his customers that the house will be broom clean when he’s done. He (and his team) organize the items in the house, arrange for auction of the high-value items, set up for the estate sale, and pay for a junk company to haul away whatever’s left.

      He keeps all the money from the sale of the contents of the house. He works only in high-end real estate (north shore Chicago).

      My husband held an estate sale when his parents died (that he organized). He made about $3,000. His parents had crummy, ugly, beat up furniture.

      After watching my husband deal with his parents’ estate, there is no amount of money a friend could pay me to do that work. I will be handling my mom’s estate only because I love her. It is the biggest pain in the neck ever. (Although at least my mom is organized, unlike my husband’s parents.)

    • anon

      Hourly is the best estimation. There are also companies that provide this service. My guess with the information you’ve given is in the $1k to $5k range. I am a probate attorney in a city with upper-mid-level wages (but HCOL, eyeroll). I work closely with an attorney who does a lot of estates like this. He’s mentioned in passing that there is someone he hires to clean out houses and she does it for $2k or 3k.

      You could also call a couple of estate sales companies. Even if they don’t do what you’re talking about they probably have referrals. Lots of people are willing to give you ballpark estimates if they know they’re not going to be roped into doing something for too cheap.

      • Anonymous

        Thanks all! This is confirming what I thought and will be helpful for what I need to discuss (issues are far, far beyond this!)

    • Anonymous

      You’re describing several different kinds of tasks, but my MIL paid someone $25/hr (in Baltimore, which is MCOL) to help prepare for a move after 30+ years in one home. The person worked with my MIL to sort through belongings, to find suitable organizations for charitable donations and to drive around dropping off the items. Unlike your mom, however, this woman did this work for many clients and had plenty of connections at organizations that would want to take donated items.

    • annienomous

      Probate attorney here. In this instance, it would be my recommendation that she track her hours, noting the kind of work she was doing on a given day, and then basing the pay on that. If she’s doing a lot of physical labor cleaning out the house and selling property, as well as meeting with attorneys and accountants and calling life insurance companies, etc., I’d be looking at a minimum of $1,500 in an Executor’s Fee, adjusting upward for extenuating circumstances (i.e. decedent is a hoarder or had difficult to deal with assets that she managed. Why do so many of them seem to be hoarders??)

    • Anonymous

      There are services that help the elderly downsize. You might look at their hourly rate as a comparable. Care.com?

    • Anonymous

      We recently had to get rid of a family member’s house and stuff. First we went through everything and took out the important papers and family heirlooms. Next we hired an estate sale company to get rid of the contents of the house. They sold whatever they could and kept a percentage of the proceeds; I can’t remember the exact number. Then we had to pay a junk hauler a couple of thousand dollars to dispose of everything that didn’t sell. Finally, we hired a realtor to sell the house.

    • anon a mouse

      I would say an hourly rate is probably appropriate, and the best thing would be for the family to set up some sort of retainer or give her a deposit against expenses so your mom isn’t fronting any fees for court filings, etc.

      However. I would also suggest that after she maps out what the likely timeline is plus a cushion, she should also stipulate that anything beyond that increases her rate. This would be especially useful if there’s a chance that the heirs will fight or not agree to close the estate. (A friend handled a very contested estate and charged 1% of assets if it was all resolved in a year, or 3% inside of 2 years, then bumped to 5% after that. She got the 5% and it was basically hazard pay at that point.)

  10. anon@aol.com

    I’m here to vent and ask for advice. Every. single. person. on my team has been sick (like deathly, hacking all over everything, can-barely-talk sick) and have not taken a single sick day over the past month. Not one. One practically coughed all over me during a meeting. We are all peers, so I can’t enforce anything, but I have been vocal about them taking a sick day. As in – “hey, you sound pretty bad, you should take a sick day.” or when they complain about feeling like death “i bet you’ll feel better after a few days at home.” Nothing is working and my boss hasn’t addressed it. It might be that I’m typically very chill and we’re fairly close, so they don’t take it as a serious suggestion. I’m hesitant to approach my boss to take action because they will definitely know I broached the subject. We’re in the government, so we have pretty liberal sick leave and are encouraged to use it. How do I move forward? If I get sick, I will be so damn LIVID.

    • anon

      I think you’ve done everything you can do from an individual standpoint. I’ve noticed there’s a big difference between having generous sick benefits and actually feeling like you can use them without falling behind for days or weeks. What’s your organization’s WFH policy?

      • Anonymous

        Yup, this. Unless you want to do all of my work for me, and can ensure that I won’t be penalized for taking the time (spoiler alert: you can’t if you’re just my peer), then it’s time to heave off. Do what you can to protect yourself (sleep, hydrate, wash your hands) and let it go.

        • Anon

          Who handles your work when you take a vacation? You obviously are able to take time off. You just won’t do it in consideration of other people.

          If we take OP at their word (and I do) — these folks are barely able to speak because of their coughs. They shouldn’t be there. There’s a form of narcissism where people don’t want to imagine a scenario where work can continue without them for a little while.

          • Anonymous

            I plan for vacations? And I take my laptop on vacation? I know work can survive without me, but not without prior notice unless of a true emergency. The common cold is not an emergency.

        • Anon

          How about YOU do what you can to avoid getting people sick? Take the penalty. Isolate yourself. Wipe everything you’ve touched with Lysol wipes. Trust me, you might think you’re not taking any penalties by coming in to work sick, but everyone is thinking of you as that nasty coworker they don’t want to be around.

          • Anon

            I don’t think that’s true. At least at my office there is definitely a culture where taking a sick day is looked upon as being not dedicated to the job.

      • YoungandDumb

        That is very true, and I’ve certainly been in environments where there’s a lot of pressure to keep up at all costs. Thankfully, our organization is not like that! I used a week’s worth last year when I got sick, and that was in the middle of a priority, time-bound project I was leading. My boss (the same one in this situation) fully supported me and rearranged work to ensure support. RE: WFH – we each have one day of telework each week, but can use more as needed. I know my coworkers are not working on anything or with anyone that pressures them into showing up. One just told me he doesn’t take it because he gets “bored.” So I’m really at a loss…I think this just comes down to an astonishing lack of consideration?

        Thanks for the response!

    • Anon

      I’m sorry – that stinks. At this point, I think it’s appropriate to say, “Please stop coughing on me. It’s inconsiderate. I don’t want to get sick.” Or “I don’t want to meet with you in close quarters because you’re obviously sick, and I don’t want to catch it.” I’ve told people I’m calling into an in-person meeting because of this (this person had a seriously bad eye infection), and they got embarrassed and stayed home the next day. Sometimes people just force you to be blunt.

    • Anon

      Honestly, people are inherently selfish and never think they are the ones that will ever make someone else sick. It is incumbent upon all of us to keep ourselves healthy by staying away from those that may be sick, no matter how “rude” the other person may take it. They’ll get over it. But a vulnerable person close to you may not. I’ve found the “remaining several steps back or not entering sick person’s office” is well tolerated if you preface it with a “sorry I get sick easy”.

      • Anon

        Cut out the “sorry” part. “I won’t be coming in to your office if you’re sick” is better.

    • Anon

      This is what I would do: “Oh, you’re sick? If you’re not going to go home, please stay away from me. I’m cancelling our 2:00 meeting.” Rinse and repeat. The goal is to make them feel some shame to cut through the selfishness.

      I would also mention it to your boss (not naming names, but as a general problem/”how can we improve this situation” type of thing). It’s very, very frustrating – I’ve been there in my office. Everyone is doing the performative “see, I never miss work!” BS despite having the need, capacity, and ability to take sick time or at least WFH (and yes, in response to those who will say “how do you know, do you stalk your coworker and touch their foreheads?!?”, they have freely shared their diagnoses and Outlook calendars with me).

    • Anon

      Not trying to be snarky but I’ve seen so many of these posts recently. If it truly is easy to work from home and your coworkers aren’t doing that when sick why don’t you just work from home when people are sick?

      • YoungandDumb

        Thanks to all who commented! For Anon @11:24 -not interpreted as snarky! I have definitely considered that (I already take my one day a week), but I can’t feasibly WFH all those days when they’ve all been rotating illnesses over the course of a few months. It really does not seem fair that I have to adjust to their inconsiderate behavior, when the onus is on them. And (this is stupid, I know), my gym happens to be across the street from work, which is an hour away from home, so I hate the thought of missing all those classes because people can’t exercise common sense.

        • Anon

          +1. Why does it make sense for the OP to WFH every single day because there’s yet another coworker who’s sick rather than asking for the slightest bit of consideration from the ones who are actually making the working environment unhealthy?

          • Anon

            I don’t disagree but clearly people keep coming in when they are sick.

            I truly think a lot of the reason people come in when sick is a perception that they should come in when sick. Someone WFH to avoid sick people may make people realize that WFH is actually an option and that people really don’t want to be around them when sick. It may help change the company’s culture over time.

          • Anonymous

            Well, it might call to management’s attention the fact the people are going to be out due to illness — and eventually require the sick people to stay home instead of putting an unfair burden on the healthy ones. Right now, everyone is at work and business is operating as normal, so they’re not motivated to address the problem.

    • Anon

      Two quick thoughts, I’m asthmatic and have allergies. I cough for about 60% of the winter and sneeze for the other 40%. My symptoms don’t necessarily mean that I’m contagious. That said, I don’t cough on people.

      Second, I have daycare aged kids and catch tons of stuff, and then with my asthma it often takes me months to recover. I was sick for a solid 4 months last fall. I worked from home 1-4 days a week for that whole period, but there is no way I could justify not coming into the office for four months for a mild to moderate cold. Sometimes I just have to wash my hands and do my best.

      • Anon

        Me too. The cold dry air makes me cough in the winter. I’m not “sick” or contagious and I feel fine. But sorry, I’ll keep showing up to work for the next two months until humidity returns.

    • Anonymous

      You cannot control what other people do. You just can’t, and you will be endlessly frustrated if you try. All you can do is focus on the actions you can take to try protect your own health. If you think the culture doesn’t support people taking their sick days, then talk about that to your boss. There can’t really make people stay home, either.

      I’ve been coughing for five weeks, I’m not sick, I just have a cough. I can’t stay home for five weeks, even if my company supported people using their sick time, which they don’t. A peer telling me I should stay home sick would just be background noise.

      • Anon

        If you have a cough, you’re sick. You might want to get checked out for more serious conditions. I’ve known of a few cases where a chronic cough with no obvious cause turned out to be something more serious.

        • Anon

          I agree, coughing for weeks is not normal at all unless there is an obvious cause (body still recovering from bronchitis or the like). You should get it checked out. It may be an unrelated illness (cough variant asthma or other lung condition).

        • anon

          Can you not try to arm chair diagnose people you don’t know? I’m not the person you’re responding to but I have had a chronic cold every winter for years and I have had it checked out by a doctor multiple times. I’m not sick, I just get a low-grade cough for a few weeks each winter. But thanks for telling me that you know more than the doctors who I’ve consulted with on this.

        • Anon

          Not true. People cough for months when recovering from pneumonia without being contagious. Asthma and allergies also cause lingering coughs.

        • Anon

          Nope! Chronic cough is part of my reflux. I see a gastro and get scoped regularly, but coughing is just part of the deal.

          • anony

            FYI

            Family member has chronic severe reflux with cough associated with it. Once reflux is treated as best it can be (and he does not want surgery), GI docs sometimes forget to tell you to keep an eye on your lungs. The chronic reflux can cause chronic lung disease, as you are coughing because some of your gastric contents are leaking into your airways. Not only can this cause cough, but progressive lung disease over time.

            So my family member has to be followed by a pulmonologist too. He developed fairly severe lung disease over time, and had no idea. He uses an inhaler now, and does not cough anymore from his reflux associated pulmonary complications.

            So in sum – chronic cough is rare with well treated reflux, and could be a sign of an asthma like lung disease that develops from the continuous aspiration.

            If your doc is already aware of this, please just ignore. But other readers out there may not be.

  11. Fair Oaks -- help a tourist with kids out

    We need to visit my elderly MIL in the western Fairfax County VA/Fair Oaks area now that she can no longer travel to us. If we are there for 5 days, with middle-schoolers in tow, what should we do? I am roughly familiar with the area (lived in DC proper for 4 years a long time ago) and will have a car. Kids have been to DC before, so have been to the White House, Smithsonian, etc. I know that there is a Smithsonian outpost near Dulles, which I will take them to, but what else for attractions, restaurants, good parks and playgrounds? We live where there are good malls, so Tysons ins’t a draw unless it is very rainy (except for the LL Bean store, if it is still there); I am excited that there will be a Baja Fresh somewhere nearby.

    • Angela

      Oh my gosh, the National Parks around there are beautiful. The Billy Goat trail is a wonderful hike, and visiting the C&O canal NHP site is super fun and interesting for kids. Mount Vernon is a teensy bit overrated IMO but probably worth doing if you never have before. Another one that’s great for a beautiful day.

      • Anon

        If you do visit Billy Goat Trail, PLEASE for the love of common sense, don’t do Section A unless you’re experienced and equipped. People die on that trail every year because they’re dumb enough to do it in flip flops or when it’s 110* and they haven’t exercised since 1991 or because they’re taking a selfie and lose their balance and go crashing into the rapids below. The news reports out of that park are like a Darwinian treatise come to life. Meanwhile, Section C is a lovely walk and Section B is a good nature hike.

        I LOVE Mount Vernon and even used to have an annual pass and think it’s wonderful for kids, particularly if they have some sort of themed event for the day.

        There are ghost tours in Old Town Alexandria – not sure if they have any this time of year.

        • Anon

          Thanks for this. I didn’t want to be a killjoy, but as a Fairfax County taxpayer I get so sick of the weekly technical rescues that our firefighters have to deal with on that trail. Honestly, I hope people get a bill for their rescue. And yes, there are ghost tours in Old Town all the time.

          • Anon

            It would seriously be cheaper for county to station someone at the entrance to the trail to inspect everybody than to pay what it costs for all these helicopter and boat rescues.

    • Flats Only

      Mount Vernon, and the Smithsonian Udvar Hazy Center out at Dulles Airport. If the weather is nice and it’s a weekday you could also head over to Great Falls for hiking and looking at the Falls. Old Town Alexandria is also fun to kill a couple of hours walking around looking at boutiques and the Torpedo Factory arts center. Many restaurants there.

    • PolyD

      Have they been to the National Museum of Health and Medicine in Silver Spring? Sounds like you will have a car. It’s not a big museum, but it’s different.

      Annapolis might be fun. See the boats, old buildings, and then go to Chick and Ruth’s Delly for dinner/lunch.

    • Anonymous

      I live right near her but my kids are much younger. Definitely check out the Udvar Hazy museum. Top Golf is fun (Loudoun). Clemyjontri Park is great, but may skew a bit younger. You could check out the W&OD Trail if you’re bike riders. Great Falls park is beautiful and great for that age group. The Mosaic is fun but mostly just a shopping area. Other than that, I’d go into DC and go to museums, even if you’ve already been, they’re endlessly interesting.

    • anon a mouse

      What do your kids like? There are so many niche museums around here that we could make better suggestions.

      If your kids like to swim or you need an indoor activity, the Cub Run Rec Center has a great indoor pool with water attractions. There’s also a SkyZone trampoline park in Sterling.

      If they are into history at all, you are not far from the Manassas battlefield and associated historic sites. If they like to be outdoors, the Great Falls — Virginia side is much easier than the MD side. Also Sky Meadows park isn’t too far and is good for 2-3 hours of easy hiking.

  12. Thanks, it has pockets!

    I just got an email about cardigans being on sale at Old Navy (and $15 off $50), so I think I’m gonna pass on this dress, but I’m getting myself some new cardigans!

    • Thanks, it has pockets!

      Whoops my bad, $15 off is in-stores only, but online you get 30% off, so I still saved more than I spent buying 4 cardigans. Now I feel comfortable ditching some of the old cardis I never wear because they’re worn out or don’t fit anymore.

      • anony

        Wow… these are really cheap. Which ones did you get? Have you gotten them before?

        • Thanks, it has pockets!

          Yeah, they’re not exactly high-end I realize . . . I got three crewnecks (grey, yellow, and maroon) and one v-neck in heather charcoal. I had been thinking of getting one or two cardigans from Ann Taylor or something, but these prices were tempting and I’ve been on a bit of an Old Navy kick after getting some floral dresses for spring.

  13. k

    I have been in my role about four years- I am good, but not great at my job. I routinely receive top tier bonuses and reviews, but so do a few of my other teammates, who are routinely recognized for being stars in the field. I have never been recognized in one of the quarterly ‘top teammates’ celebration email announcements. Despite the stable job, paycheck, and engaging work, I’m feeling a little down this week that I’m not ‘excellent’ or at least not being told that I’m doing excellent work or recognized for it. I think that putting my head down and producing quality work is getting the job done but I’m missing the social experience that is critical to my work being recognized.
    I’m not expecting a participation trophy here- but rather I’m looking for ways to uplevel my engagement with my team and prevent my own discouragement and eventual burnout. How do you move from good and reliable to great and irreplaceable? How have you stayed engaged with your team and made yourself an indispensable part of the company?

    • anonso

      I think you are probably being too hard on yourself, so I’d say cut yourself some slack and try to remember what you ARE doing well. It’s really rare to be openly recognized as the best of the best. The working world isn’t set up to give you the feeling of achieving a 4.0 GPA or MVP award most of the time. That’s something from childhood that doesn’t usually carry over so well. But I totally get wanting to feel that sense of accomplishment. Have you made personal goals for yourself beyond your day-to-day to-do list? What accomplishments would make you proud? Can you make a list of dream items to add to your resume, and build a game plan so that you feel more ownership and meaning in what you do?

    • Anonymous

      Consider which work gets recognition or is highly visible and try to do more of that/or your own take on that. Is there a project you can head vs. support? What do you mean by the “social experience”?

      Find out who’s really in charge of drafting the celebration email and what their deadline is, and send them a brief email listing the accomplishment(s) you want featured that quarter. (Hi so and so, I have completed some interesting work this quarter that you might be interested in featuring in your quarterly update …)

    • Anonymous

      I’ll ask – do you need to make these changes? Not everyone can or needs to be a star, and it seems you are valued in important ways (even if they aren’t flashy) – getting reviews and bonuses, having a stable job, doing engaging work. These are all really good things! (my answer would be different if you were being slighted otherwise, but it doesn’t seem you are)

  14. Invisalign experience

    Thank you so much for all the input on invisalign yesterday! You guys totally pushed me over the “yes I’ll do it” line. I do have one additional question: Is it better that I get a full-on orthodontist to do it? My dentist who recommended it is not an orthodontist specialist, but his office does offer inivisalign. I’m wondering if I need the specialist even more since mine is medical and not cosmetic?

    • Invisalign comment

      I recommend an orthodontist. You can browse r/invisalign (there is a place on the internet for everything, isn’t there?) to get a sense of the difference. It seems as though dentists are less skilled at managing complications than orthodontists are.

      • CostAccountant

        I agree. Go with an orthodontist. I was very glad that I did. She’s the expert at straightening teeth.

    • S in Chicago

      Get a full orthodontist. My comment never posted yesterday. I did Invisalign in my early 30s after wearing braces briefly in early high school and never wearing my retainers. I had minor crowding on my lower front teeth and was told treatment would be about a year. I went with an orthodontist (not dentist) and did my research–the guy even speaks nationally. Treatment ended up taking 3(!) years and the last six months involved braces because he said it might be another year with Invisalign. I’ve had TMJ through that last part of treatment and ever since (I’m now several years out). The TMJ specialist who my regular dentist referred me to said he is seeing a lot of adult Invisalign users (I was about 32 when I did it).I never used to be a teeth grinder. And to make it worse, I don’t like my smile as much (they raised the lower teeth) and my husband said he sees no difference. Honestly, I put it up there as one of the biggest mistakes I’ve ever made. Inconvenience of taking them out to eat, getting a lisp when wearing, etc. are all minor things compared to what I’ve been through. If you go this route, go with someone who does it frequently rather than mail order or a dentist with a side gig. Screwing up your bite isn’t worth it . Trust me.

  15. Abby

    It’s been 6.5 weeks since I got a verbal offer for my new job and my background check completed today. I am finally quitting my job!!!! Just not yet because I’m a scaredy cat and need my heart to stop beating out of my chest first.

    • Anon

      I was in this position about 5 weeks ago! Just do it, it will feel great after! (I did it as soon as possible, because I knew the anticipation and anxiety of waiting to do it was going to be worse than doing it!) Does your boss suck? If so, bonus: if you do it today you get to ruin your boss’s weekend!

      • Abby

        Thank you!! I really hate my team as a whole, but would say I’m pleasant towards everyone. I am beyond excited to never work with them again. And I am still waiting…everyone is in meetings!

  16. Anon

    I know people were worried about whether to take their domestic flights because of the covid-19 situation, but in my case, the airline cancelled my flight (presumably due to this, they didn’t say) and offered an “alternative” flight that doesn’t exist. I’m getting a refund, fortunately, but there goes my vacation. I’m implementing a back-up trip that doesn’t require flying and I wanted to post this here in case others are counting on essential travel in the next few weeks. I think we’re likely to see more cancellations and issues.

    • NOLA

      One of my staff has been planning a big trip to Japan for months. I feel terrible for him and I hope it doesn’t get canceled. He’s been so excited about it and it’s a big big deal for him to do this (he majored in Japanese in college). It’s a three week trip and, so far, all we know is that the university may expect him to be isolated for two weeks when he returns. I have no issues with that because I would never tell him not to go.

        • Anon

          Can you just, like, have some compassion for somebody who has planned for a really big trip and would obviously be disappointed about not being able to go?

      • Anon

        Last weekend I was at a party and ended up chatting with someone who was leaving in a few days for Japan. She was still planning on going (like your staff member, it was a big trip for her) and I gave her major side eye. I wonder if she actually went.

      • Anon

        I also work at a university and my colleague’s husband is working in Japan for the year and she is going to visit. Our boss is letting her work froM home for two weeks when she returns. I hope you can do the same for your employee

        • NOLA

          This employee doesn’t really have work that he can do from home, so the university will have to give him paid time off.

    • anonymous

      I have a trip planned to Jamaica at the end of April. Flying from Ohio and connecting through Charlotte. Keeping an eye on my flights and hoping there are no cancellations. Flying American.

    • Anonymous

      This gives me hope that my co-workers’ flight to Seattle might be cancelled. Please oh please oh please!

    • Anon

      At least the way it’s styled, it seems like a nod to the traditional dress in India, Pakistan, and other parts of the world. I think it’s beautiful. I have no reason to wear something like that, but I do love it.

      • pugsnbourbon

        I kinda like it. The draping is interesting. I like it a lot more as a standalone top than as part of a matching set.

    • Formerly Lilly

      The back is like a whole different dress. There is a LOT going on with that dress – plaid, puff sleeves, draping, big cutout, mixed patterns, peplum, wrap skirt.

      • Formerly Lilly

        And oh lordy it’s kind of sheer too. It’s separates. Go to the skirt only to see the sheerness of the fabric. I like the color and I like the patterns. I may even like the draping and the peplum.

    • anony

      I think the print is horrific, but that could be gorgeous with the right fabric/occasion.

  18. Anon

    I wish every pill that you have to take once a day came in a package like birth control, where you can see every day and whether or not you’ve taken it. I struggle to remember whether I’ve taken my antidepressant every morning. Anybody have any tips?

    • Anonymous

      I had this exact issue with my antidepressant and I found a solution that works! I put a reminder in my phone that is set to recur every day at the same time that just says “take meds”. I don’t mark it as done until I’ve taken my antidepressant, so when I look at my phone screen if the alert is still up it means I haven’t taken it yet. Haven’t missed a single one since I started this and it’s easy because the reminder just shows up daily without input from me.

    • Anon

      Yeah, this is what pill cases are for. I’m sure there are also apps or ways you could use the notes on your phone to keep track of whether you took it. I just always take my pills immediately when I first get up and go to the bathroom in the morning, but if I traveled more this would be harder.

    • Anonymous

      A good pharmacy can do this for you. It’s super common for older people who have multiple medications to have blister packs that contain their various medications broken out into morning, afternoon, and evening bubbles etc.

    • anon

      I make a little calendar (e.g., M T W Th F S S for however many weeks are in the bottle) on prescriptions (on the bottle) and cross out the day when I take the pill

    • Anon

      I take mine in the morning with gummy vitamins. With a sweet tooth, I never forget my morning “candy.” (Yeah, I’m secretly like 6 years old.)

    • Anon

      I have an app I use for my bcp but it could be for any pill. It’s called Pill Reminder. If you haven’t checked off taking your pill that day on the app calendar, a red flag on the app icon reminds you. It works well for me.

    • anon

      You have to create a routine. Keep it somewhere you’ll see it, work it into something you always do. E.g. – right after I brush my teeth I take my med. Eventually it’ll be autopilot.

    • Vicky Austin

      I used an app called MyTherapy on android for a while – worked great.

    • CPA Lady

      There is a cap you can buy that fits on rx bottles that has a timer thing that can tell you when the bottle was last opened. I think you can buy them at any drugstores or on amazon.

    • Anon

      I’m using Medisafe (available for both apple and android) and really like it.

  19. anonchicago

    I apologize if this comes across as a first world problem, but is anyone depressed about the impact of Coronavirus?

    I typically travel for work weekly (management consulting). My very large employer has asked us to reduce travel and cancel all international travel. My boss has been freaking out about COVID for weeks (sharing articles with conspiracy theories, talking about it constantly, etc.) and told the partners that the team isn’t going to travel. While work travel isn’t “exciting”, I don’t like spending 12 hours a day in a windowless conference room, commuting for work, and being home every night but not having control over my schedule. On the selfish side, I’m not racking up frequent flyer miles which pays for our vacations. My husband and I are used to being apart ~2 nights a week so the lack of travel is messing a bit with our routines and getting on each others nerves.

    I’m scheduled to go to Tanzania with two friends in July. It’s a bucket list trip for all of us (climbing Kilimanjaro, Safari) and my last opportunity to do this as my husband and I are supposed to start TTC this fall. Other two friends want to cancel. We agreed to defer the decision till April 1 when the next payment is due, but their mind is made up and I get it. My husband is also on the fence about canceling a weekend in Scottsdale next month because of planes, which I think is irrational but much less of a loss than canceling Tanzania.

    I’m just….sad. I get these precautions are necessary. At the same time, I read that many Americans will get COVID and not even know it because it will just feel like a cold. It will hit the elderly and sick most which I am not, my husband and immediate families are not, and my coworkers certainly are not.

    Tips for coping and planning through this?

    • Anon

      Don’t beat yourself up about feeling sad. You’ve had some disruptions to your plans and it’s disappointing. That’s normal. For me, I find it helpful to re-orient myself to what I can be grateful for in the situation. In my case, that includes: having excellent health insurance and access to medical care should I need it, having paid sick leave should I need it, having a supportive boss and workplace should I need to work from home, having an emergency fund if I need to take unpaid time off, not having a chronic health condition that would put me at higher risk for death, having a stable job that will probably withstand economic turmoil, etc.

      We’ve all got to just work on being more flexible right now.

    • Anon

      Just wanted to say that I am also in management consulting and it’s driving me crazy that my employer is cancelling internal travel but making it very clear that client travel is still expected. It’s just such a slap in the face that our health only matters when profits aren’t at stake.

    • Anon

      I really really don’t want any general quarantine orders till Tuesday because I need to complete a blood draw for a genetic test (for IVF). I have already waited for a year for this, I am 36 and I cannot move forward with the treatment without the test for various reasons. After spending all winter just managing tests and appointments for infertility, I just wanted to go some where and get a desperately needed break. That is definitely not happening now.
      I also did my customary COVID shopping yesterday. It felt surreal to see empty shelves in Costco, like the stuff happens only in the movies.

  21. Anon

    Weird behavior question, I guess?

    I have worked for years with a woman named “Liz” (names changed but she has always used an extremely common nickname for her formal given name, even in childhood.) She and I used to be closer friends but we have drifted apart, which has been intentional on my end, as I have found her to be very self-centered, the kind of person who needs lots of support for all of her drama – some truly awful inflicted by others, like her ugly divorce, which was 100% her husband’s fault; some definitely self-inflicted – but can’t be there for her friends going through awful stuff. The kind of person who will change the subject back to herself.

    Ok so now Liz wants to be called Elizabeth 100% of the time, no exceptions, and will basically report you to HR if you don’t comply. She is so thoroughly ingrained as Liz that her email is liz dot last name at company dot com.

    I have slipped up more than once and called her Liz and she lost her sh1t at me and compared herself to a trans person we both know who now goes by a new name and pronouns, and how dare I call her the wrong name etc.

    (Meanwhile, I know what this is about. Her nephew and a close friend of my niece had a baby they named Elizabeth, after the mother’s late grandmother. Baby Elizabeth is adorable, one of the cutest babies I’ve ever seen, and is getting a ton of attention. There’s a closed group online where the proud parents share pics and Liz and I are both let off the group. Liz has said in this group that SHE is the original Elizabeth and insists that the baby should go by Lizzie. Yes, I know she is ridiculous.)

    Ok so I’m not sure I have a question as much as a vent, but SERIOUSLY, can people get in trouble with HR for accidentally calling her a name she has used at work for 20 years?

    • Anonymous

      No, I’m going to venture that your employer does not have a policy that calling someone by their former (non-offensive/non-discriminatory) nickname is misconduct. I would snitch on her to HR first actually about her behavior towards you being both offensive and harassing in reaction to a harmless mistake. Happy Friday.

    • Anon

      No. She is not a transwoman or part of a protected group when it comes to this issue, she is a grown woman who is having a spat with a baby. If she reports you to HR respond with 1) it was a slip up and I’m genuinely trying to call her by her full name now and 2) explain that is is a personal issue related to new baby in her family. State things factually so she looks insane, because she is.

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