ByElizabeth Hours Updated
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Thursday’s Workwear Report: Poplin Tie-Waist Midi Dress

A woman wearing a red midi dress

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

This bold red shirtdress from Banana Republic Factory is really calling my name. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: A crisp, cotton shirtdress is one of my favorite items for summer workwear. This midi length looks modern, and the tie-waist gives it a beautiful shape.

My office isn’t sandal-friendly, so I’d wear it with some comfy flats for a more casual day or underneath a blazer when I need to look a bit more formal.

The dress is $70 at Banana Republic Factory and comes in sizes XXS–XXL and petite sizes XXS–L. It also comes in four other colors.

Two plus-size options are from Universal Standard (up to 4XL, on sale for $160) and Lands' End (up to 3X, on sale for $50).

Sales of note for 12.5

303 Comments

  1. For lady jackets, is the ba&sh gaspard cardigan worth it or is JCrew or even JCF lady cardigans essentially the same basic cotton blend cardi for much less? That shape works well for my shape.

    Longer cardigans — I’m keeping for now but they seemed to go super well with skinny jeans. I don’t think I will wear these as a combo or separately until fall. But I need something for the polar air conditioning now that it is warm out.

    1. i have been debating the same thing! for what it is worth i bought a very spendy pair of bash boots last winter and regret it, not better quality than anything else

    2. I like Ba&sh, but TBH I think those two are pretty similar. I have a Gaspard (purchased very discounted) and it maybe feels slightly more tailored than the JCrew one, but not worth the difference at full price IMO.

    3. I haven’t been thrilled with what I bought from ba&sh at the price point. I also tried on the gaspard cardigan in person after stalking it online. It was cute but just not as good as I thought it would be and it was enough to convince me not to buy it.

    5. I have the BA&SH Gaspard and really love it. I don’t have a J Crew one so can’t really compare. With my Gaspard I can truly dress it up or down without it looking too dressy if that makes sense. It can be more of a cardigan or a jacket where I see the J Crew as a jacket. I have some Mango lady jackets that have been serviceable but probably wouldn’t repurchase (pilling, cheap buttons).

  2. Help a mom of a teen who just recently started caring about fashion. LoveShackFancy is the vibe in our area. OMG so spendy! Arula is basically similar but for much less. Yes? No?

      1. Admittedly I only have cursory knowledge of LSF, but as a fashion loving 28 year old, Free People is a splurge for me.

        1. LSF is at least 150% the cost of FP but I agree that FP is also pretty spendy for teens.

        2. Holy cow I just went and checked out their website. I knew Ute wasn’t cheap but it’s way more expensive than I thought!!

          There’s zero percent chance I’m buying that for a kid. It doesn’t matter how wealthy I am, no kid needs a $300 crop top or $700 dress.

          These pieces aren’t investments or something worth splurging on. They’re so trendy they’ll be out of style in a year or two. The types of clothing that LSF is selling is nothing where quality really matters.

          Honestly anyone entertaining buying trendy clothes at these prices is just spoiling their kid.

          1. I wouldn’t pay those prices for my own clothes, let alone my 14-year-old who is still growing and may decide she hates the style 6 months later. This is the chance to teach a kid how to find the look and vibe for less!

      2. Those brands are more “bride-to-be or new mom in her 30s” than “teen.” I have seen exactly zero nap dresses on my 17-year-old’s peers. My daughter has a couple of FP pieces in her closet but she stole them from me (mid-40s).

      1. I’m opposed to BM for their sizing policy (even as a petite who struggled to find petite clothing), but it’s literally 10x cheaper than LSF

        1. My tall misses size 6 daughter was sized out of BM by high school. Of course if was all she wanted to wear. She felt so bad about her body!

        2. I am opposed to Brandy Melville because it’s garbage that is probably made by forced child labor, but there’s nothing wrong with small-sized brands. There are small people out there and they need clothes too. Everything these days caters to larger, curvier bodies. Even American Eagle has crazy vanity sizing. Different brands for different folks is actually better than trying to serve everyone with a single brand. Small-sized and teen clothes need to be cut differently from clothes for larger people and adult women.

          1. For me the issue with BM is that it only comes in size small. I’m petite and it’s so hard to find petite clothing. It’s great that it exists!! Vanity sizing is awful – I’m a real 4-6 so I really feel for the real 0-2s who struggle to find stuff. But BM can offer Ms and Ls that are still cut to fit smaller women.

    3. I’d give her a budget to work with – she can decide if she wants one thing from Love Shack Fancy or three things from a cheaper store. If she wants to go over that budget, she can work and use her earnings to supplement.

      I’d also teach her the beauty of bargain hunting: thrifting, buying similar styles from cheaper stores, and looking at places like TJ Maxx or outlets.

      As a 20 something who loves fashion, most of what I own is thrifted or from a cheaper store (TJ Maxx, BRF, ON) with a few special splurges.

      I was a teen not all that long ago and my parents were happy to buy me ON clothes, but if I wanted something more expensive that was on me to buy. I thought that was a very fair compromise, even at the time. It’s honestly astonishing to me how many teens wear very expensive clothing, makeup, etc. I don’t think teens should be limited to just handmedowns, but I also don’t think they should just get expensive wants without contributing to them.

      I’m also very

      2. My last line got cut off, but I’m also very glad I went to a high school with a uniform. It took a lot of pressure off of having the right look or the right brands.

      3. +1 million. The name-brand stuff is a splurge item. Would I give it to my kid as a gift? Sure. For routine wardrobe stocking? No. Or I would agree to pay half (or whatever feels fair for a comparable item) and they can pay the rest. This is how my parents handled it, and it seems fair. I am more than willing to buy my kids nice mid-range brands, but there is a limit.

      4. Another voice in agreement. Most of my teenage clothes came from the Kohl’s clearance rack.

        Nordstrom Rack sometimes has Free People items at a discount. Other less-spendy places to look: Aerie, Billabong/Roxy/other “surfer” shops, American Eagle, Lucky.

        1. Yeah, Nordstrom carries a number of brands that have the LSF vibe but for less. Agree that giving her a budget and letting her decide how to make the trade-offs is the way to go.

    4. Altar’d State is aimed at the under-25 crowd and approximates the style of LoveShackFancy and Anthro. It is hugely popular with the kids at my daughter’s high school who have to buy their own clothes or whose parents refuse to splash out for LoveShackFancy. The dresses are less expensive but still overpriced given the quality and tend to fall apart quickly. Arula is their plus-sized line. I would wait for one of their relatively frequent “buy 2 get X% off” deals if possible.

        1. The stores have a weird “s1uts for Jesus” sort of vibe. The clothes all seem intended to be worn to a bach party in Nashville, but the store also offers wooden blocks painted with Bible verses. The company says it donates money to overseas charities but there’s no detail about what exactly they are doing–are they building wells or evangelizing? I am a socially progressive Christian who boycotts Hobby Lobby and is very skeptical of Altar’d State, but I let my daughter shop at Altar’d State because I just don’t have the mental energy to figure out exactly what it is they are up to or to argue with her or really even to be outraged about yet another thing.

          1. This is hilarious to me because, while I’ve never been in the store, I always thought the name implied some sort of alternative store like Spencer’s or Hot Topic. . Doh!

          2. I’m cackling at your first sentence because I know exactly what vibe you’re talking about, and it is weird. But I also don’t care enough to make a big thing out of it.

      2. OP here and thanks for this. I didn’t know why I didn’t realize that Arula was plus-sized. Maybe it is next to Altared State in our mall? At any rate, I wouldn’t buy LSF for me and I have a job and don’t tend to change size or taste. I just wanted to maybe be sure if the vibe wasn’t also “this is what poor wannabe kids wear” (or like anyone with bills and a budget). FWIW, I am in a Chanel-inspired jacket today and wouldn’t buy Chanel even if I could technically afford do — the “inspired-by” version is fine. I am not Miranda Priestly, but appreciate how everything trickles down. I also don’t want kiddo thinking that Shein is the way to extend her budget and showed her the SNL “less lead” bit.

    5. I’d have her spend some time looking at magazines and websites of that brand or others to figure out what she likes – is it certain shapes, prints, how things are styled? Then give her a budget and take her to a few stores to try things on and figure out what she can get for her money. Is she cares about the label it will be very few items from higher end brands; if she doesn’t, she can make her money go much farther at Express, Target, Old Navy, or the outlet mall.

      And those clothes are pricey for casual clothes for me as a grownup – if she is only exposed to people with that kind of wealth, please figure out a way to broaden her horizons through activities that aren’t through her school, a less expensive camp, religious school, whatever – she may still want what she wants but at least will have the context to now or eventually understand that most teens don’t buy $200 cotton midi dresses.

      1. Magazines — do they exist any more? I loved them growing up, but as an adult, Vogue was for trust-funders and W just had too many disturbing ads (for my teen daughters; too many pictures look like they could be straight out of Law & Order SVU).

        2. Sort of! I read them on Libby from my library. The quality of writing and editing is noticeable vs. internet fare. Isn’t Teen Vogue really on trend too?

    7. I know I’m a mean mom and it’s horribly old fashioned of me, but 90% of the time my kids don’t get nicer things than I have, unless they get it themselves . I don’t spend $600 on a dress for myself, I’m not buying that for a teen. My teen drives my old mini van and I drive the newer car.

      My teens have a wonderful, privileged life. But until they’re the ones paying the bills, they get what they get (which is still nice, but reasonable).

    8. See if she can find things second hand online from places that allow returns (e.g., some ebay sellers, poshmark, mecari, thredup).

    9. I would introduce your teen to slow fashion influencer videos. The trendy 20-somethings I volunteer with tend to use the runway trends and high end stores for fashion inspiration, and then they piece together exceptional outfits from 2nd hand thrift store buys (feeding into slow fashion and higher quality items) and a few cheaper fast fashion pieces (like Target or Shein). If your teen wants to get some investment pieces, I recommend avoiding trends and instead buying a few classic and timeless items.

    10. Lulu’s and Abercrombie & Fitch/Hollister have some pieces that are a similar vibe to the LSF stuff. ASOS also has a huge range of clothing and prices, I’d think she’d be able to find something there

  3. Can anyone recommend a website for resume help. Have not updated mine in 8 years. I see a million results when searching, but looking for one that is easy to use and tailored towards attorneys.

    1. Indeed and Resume Genius are ones I’ve used to get some tips. But I would just google something like “resume format for attorneys”. There are some R*ddit subs that have been helpful too. The basic advice I’ve followed is to keep the format simple and list my achievements and not just job duties. I’ve also used ChatGPT when I get stuck with wording something. But I always tweak it a little bit instead of just copying it verbatim.

  4. Does this exist?

    I love my noise-canceling headphones (I have both over the ear and earbud styles) for drowning out background sounds. However, my office has a lot of ambient white noise. Apparently this is due to my proximity to in-ceiling HVAC ductwork. Is there a non-wearable noise canceling thing that works for a small room? I get so tired of wearing headphones all the time and have low-level headaches from hearing the constant hum all day, every day. I am at the point of asking our maintenance team if they can install some sort of soundproofing above the ceiling tiles to dampen the noise.

    1. I don’t know about noice canceling, but I had a similar issue with my ceiling, and maintenance did something that helped. I don’t remember what they did other than, first, of course, deny there was an issue. But they did fix it, and it was an easy fix as I recall.

    2. I stayed in a hotel that had one of those old-fashioned whooshing white noise machines and it was surprisingly effective in drowning out street noise. I would worry, though, about the long-term hearing damage from both the noise you are trying to mask and the noise you are using to mask it. I’d ask about moving offices or having soundproofing installed in the ceiling.

    3. Definitely check with your maintenance team. My husband does HVAC stuff for a large office campus and this is the stuff they can check into and try to fix for you.

    5. A colleague has a small white noise machine by her office door to help her concentrate.

  5. From March 2020 to early 2024 I was the healthiest I’ve ever been in my life thanks to lockdown, masking, and other COVID precautions. This spring my husband returned to the office and my family started refusing to mask in public. I am now back to my old pattern of constant sinus infections and bronchitis. I can’t take it any more and want to be tested for a primary immunodeficiency. What type of doctor should I start with? My PCP is basically useless and just refers everything out, so I’d like to skip that delay.

    1. An immunologist. When you go to the appointment, bring notes about any serious infections or hospitalizations you’ve had, including things like pneumonia and skin infections that required antibiotics. Also bring your vaccine records. Information about your infection history and your responses to vaccine challenges can help inform diagnosis if blood tests do indicate an immune deficiency.

    2. Immunologist. Some immunologists are mainly allergists, so you may want to try to find one who has a background in primary immune deficiency. Medifind.com, Vitals.com, or the IDF foundation may be sources of information (I saw someone who had led a good IDF webinar, for example).

      I feel like a PCP who writes referrals is very useful, but maybe that’s because a lot of specialists near me require referrals! I did see an ENT first to check for more obvious things like polyps or issues with sinus structure.

      1. Yes, this. Most specialists I see require referrals, even if your insurance doesn’t.

    3. I’d see an ENT first and then an immunologist. I thought I might have an immunodeficiency, turns out I had a horribly deviated septum and have been sick much less often (even with kids in school!) since having it fixed last year. It’s amazing how much sinus pain/pressure I thought was ‘normal’ – my headaches are also greatly decreased.

    4. Do you still have your tonsils? I had many, many respiratory infections for eight or nine years until I had them out. I’ve hardly been sick more than twelve times in the 32 years since.

  6. Are there any other POC out there who feel the concept of giving kids an allowance is a very wHite/Western concept? As a South Asian woman, I can’t fathom paying kids to be part of their home…and I was raised the same way. It’s just so foreign to me! I definitely had white friends growing up who got an allowance – some for doing things, others for existing – and it was always off putting. Idk just something I’ve been thinking about.

    1. Indian here. I’ve found that most Indian parents are pretty generous with their money even through adulthood. I did not have an allowance growing up. However I think having an allowance can be a good way to teach kids about finances.

      1. East Asian here. Giving a kid an allowance recognizes their independence and agency at a young age by respecting their ability to make their own decisions. Have many friends and family whose parents didn’t give them an allowance, but paid for clothes, cars, college, rent, houses, weddings, etc. These parents also expect their opinions re: said life decisions to hold a lot of weight, because they paid for it. Rather than judge a “western” kid for being transferred money to see to their own wants, I think it’s pretty sad and even pathetic to see East Asian / South Asian 40 yr olds tying themselves in knots and basing so many of their decisions on what Mommy and Daddy or Auntie and Uncle would think, because they controlled the pursestrings for so long.

        1. This. I don’t want a mutually manipulative discourse every time my kid wants to go out with their friends. I don’t want it for me or for them. And I really don’t want my adult daughter plotting how to manipulate her “daddy” into paying for things in her adulthood, or for her father to demand affection and deference because he bought her a car at 28.

        2. Yeah I have several close Chinese American friends and have observed this dynamic firsthand. And fwiw nt friends all give their kids allowance, because they want to break the cycle of adult kids needing their parents’ approval before spending money!

    2. In our family, we use an allowance to teach money management. People handle this differently, but I wouldn’t jump to assuming that an allowance means the parents have stopped providing for the kids, which seems to be what you’re implying.

    3. Acknowledging that I’m a white woman jumping in here ::sorry:: but I’m curious, did your parents buy you all your needs/wants or did you have to earn money through a job? Did you talk about finances in your family, and did you feel prepared for budgeting as an adult?

      IMO the conversation around allowances seems to be shifting to “teaching financial skills”, and wanting our kids to have knowledge of budgets and saving and learning the money basics while they are still in our homes. This is in contrast to the last generation, when money was so hush-hush and kids graduated without any of this knowledge. But I am taking note of your comment that it seems like giving kids money for just existing!

    4. ? I don’t understand the “paying to be part of the family” connotation. In my family growing up, an allowance was so that the kids had some of their “own” money, and could learn how to save, spend, and donate money. There was no connotation at all that I was getting “paid.”

      I don’t see much difference between the parents paying for a kid’s toys and treats versus giving the child money and having them make decisions about their own toys and treats. Both ways, the parent is “giving” the things money buys.

    5. This is so weird. I got an allowance, not for existing, but as a way to learn about money, saving, and budgeting. My parents bought the basics and if I wanted anything beyond that, I needed to save my allowance to buy it myself (we’re talking like a dollar a week when I was little, so not exactly big bucks, even forty years ago).

      By the time I was in high school, I lobbied to increase my allowance and cover pretty much all of my expenses outside of food eaten at home and medical care. I put together a budget and my parents approved it (I also got a job so I ended up with more money for fun stuff with friends, but my allowance was basically Old Navy level, with room for a few splurges here and there). It was great preparation for understanding how much things cost and spending within my means, and I liked the flexibility and independence.

    6. Kids can’t have an income, and they didn’t ask to be born. Parents should cover their needs, and wants as appropriate. It’s not “paying” them. I don’t understand the attitude “you get a roof over your head and 3 meals a day, that’s enough”. If that’s your attitude, it’s very selfish to have children. It may come from old attitudes when people couldn’t control the size of their families (i.e. before any forms of birth control existed), but that was a long time ago and not relevant to today at all.

      1. I see it as a way of teaching one of the most important principles of personal finance for anyone who has enough money to pay for more than the absolute bare essentials of life: you can afford anything (or most things) but you can’t afford everything. You have to make choices. Do you want one item of clothing from the trendy store, ten from the cheap store, or five from somewhere in between? People yesterday were posting about spoiled children, and to me, you get spoiled children when they get handed everything they want and never have to make those decisions for themselves.

        1. This. I provide the needs. Allowance is a budget for their “want to have” items where they weigh limited funds and competing wants and decide accordingly. Like do they get popcorn at a movie? A $5 soda? Go to Starbucks? This is baby steps to adulting. Not running to mom for another $20 every time you feel like going out with friends.

          1. That’s the way I think of it as well – using allowance for “wants” as a baby step towards real decision-making with significant amounts of money. While I don’t know if my grandparents got allowances in the 1930s, my mostly-Midwestern white family has given kids allowances since the 1950s.

            I also view it as a way for my kids to make low-stakes “bad” decisions without having to stress myself out about it. I can’t abide those sugary Starbucks drinks and think they are a waste of money, but my 16yo buys them periodically. She’s going to be a legal adult in 2 years who could (at least theoretically) move out, get a job and a place to live, and drink nothing but those drinks.

          2. Also it gives them a chance to fail before the consequences become very difficult. Some parents let teenagers buy their own clothes to a budget or pay for their car’s gas. If the kid buys one expensive thing and doesn’t have enough for more practical items, it’s better to feel pain as a high school freshman instead of a college student taking out a credit card with a very high APR. Some people have compulsive personalities and need to learn consequences. Some people have anxious personalities and need to be given responsibilities with choices to help them grow.

      2. I don’t read the OP that way at all. I read it as parents already pay for everything a child needs and much of what they want, why do they give them more money just because?

        1. Well, many of us don’t want to buy everything our kids want. Need? Of course, without question. Some wants? OK. Everything they could possibly want? No. Also, there is value in teaching a kid to save for something he or she really values.

        2. Honestly my own recollection that that – overall and with exceptions – the kids with allowances got fewer overall “wants” than the kids who’s parents bought stuff on a request-by-request basis

          1. This is definitely my experience as a parent to a.6 year old who has allowance when most of her friends don’t. We spend sooo much less money on physical stuff for our kid.

    7. The way I see it, the money is getting spent on the kids either way… it’s a way of giving them more control over where and how it’s spent? (My family didn’t do allowances either though; we just got jobs.)

    8. In our house as kids get older the amount of allowance increases and the set of things kids have to buy themselves increases. When they were little we obviously made all the purchasing decisions – both needs and wants. We still pay for the needs, some wants, and any investment in the kid type stuff. There are some wants we expect them to pay for. Allowance has also introduced a natural consequence for damaging or destroying something: paying to fix or replace it. Our kids mostly buy junk food beyond the level we are willing to provide. They also saved up for a Nintendo Switch, something that we are happy for them to have but did not want to pay for directly. Our 3rd grader has some fascination with cutting his hair and clothes. We think it’s some kind of sensory/stress-relief thing…but we do insist he pay for his own replacement clothes. We do $1 for each year of age / week.

      It wasn’t your question but I think the pandemic really did a number on kids’ understanding of money. We went from learning how to complete a transaction at check out to “What?! No, you cannot come to the store! The plague is here!”

    9. We give our teen an allowance as a way to teach money management and planning for large and necessary purchases, to avoid spoiling her by buying her a ton of stuff, and to eliminate arguments over stuff she wants us to buy her. It’s definitely not “paying her to exist.”

      For the opposite perspective, I see a lot of South Asian families go to Disney World and buy their kids massive quantities of toys, costumes, and souvenirs. I don’t automatically assume all South Asian parents do this, and it is something we would never do. Our daughter is free to choose to spend her allowance on that stuff but we don’t buy it for her. It’s just a different parenting approach, and it’s pretty racist to call an allowance a “white people” way of spoiling kids without understanding how it actually works.

      1. As the WW upthread, I think it’s a fine question (and I can feel the defensiveness oozing through these replies). Often we American WW tend to latch on to the latest “great idea” in parenting and adopt it without much critical thought, and the view of an allowance has changed over the last generation or two.

        Personally, I like the idea of an allowance to teach financial responsibility, but it’s okay to evaluate that with a cultural/class lens. Like, do families closer to the poverty line give allowances, or do they just say no?

        1. I had an allowance 30 years ago for the exact same reasons my kid has an allowance now–to learn money management and to limit parental spending to a set amount.

          The racial, cultural, and class discussion is kind of odd, and is exactly the kind of thing that wealthy, privileged people with too much time on their hands engage in. Do you know or work with actual poor people? I do work with poor people, and I don’t believe that my decision-making as a middle-class parent is subject to the same considerations as theirs, or that I am somehow morally obligated to parent like a poor person or in the way I assume a poor person would or should. A lot of the decisions poor people tend to make are suboptimal ones that are forced upon them by constraints–things that require less outlay of cash in the moment but are more expensive or burdened with other negative consequences in the long run. OP is the real racist here for criticizing “the whites” for giving their kids allowances and insinuating that South Asians are superior parents for not giving allowances.

          1. Agreed — I’m not going to suggest that my kids see how far out they can live if they take 2 buses to get to work. Maybe they’d save $, but the time that takes is crazy. And the weather can be bad. And sometimes the bus doesn’t come. And what if you need to go to the grocery store or doctor? If you are really poor, none of the choices are necessarily good or easy. I’m for teaching the value of the dollar, but I’m not going to pretend that we have only X to deal with when we really have Y. Our budget might be “state U for 4 years” and wouldn’t encourage our kid to go to community college just to save $ but only if it were a good choice given life goals (or to think outside of the box — if they don’t get into Flagship State U, look into communtity college guaranteed transfer options and other state Us and how they may vary by program — nursing or engineering or history may all be quite different paths).

        2. I think the defensiveness is to the “paying kids to be a part of the family” line specifically, and people are reacting defensively because that’s a fairly aggressive phrasing.

    11. I understand not wanting to pay kids to do chores, because they should be doing chores anyway. But I don’t think an allowance is really paying kids for existing. It’s tr@nsferring money you’d spend on them to them, and making them learn to budget. I don’t spend any more now that we give our kid allowance; we just give it to her and have buy things rather than buying things for her.

    12. I think your philosophy on family membership only actually works if the parents take care of the kids. At 13 I got my first job and my parents completely stopped cooking for me, driving me etc. So at 13 I began only cleaning my dishes (since I was cooking for myself) and only cleaning my bedroom. It ended up in endless fights but there was no amount of yelling that could convince me I needed to wash my mom’s car when I was literally never transported in it.

    13. Mine was a way for my mom to opt out of making lunches once I hit middle school- she’d give me x per week and I could buy lunch, or make lunch and save to go to the movies. Was a useful tool to teach me budgeting and made one of her least favorite chores my problem instead.

    14. I just love how it’s totally fine to say massively racist things as long as you claim not to be white.

    15. I think not giving an allowance (and requiring kids to cover certain categories of purchases with the allowance, no exceptions) creates a high risk of parents’ being overindulgent, controlling, and/or manipulative.

    16. Super white concept. I’m South Asian and kids don’t get pocket money. They ask for and get money for birthdays and can use that as they like. But no allowance etc. for chores. It’s their house, they should chip in!

  7. Is there any legitimate way to reduce cellulite? I am working on diet and exercise; I am seeing lots of ads and articles recommending dry brushing, certain oils, massages, etc. but am skeptical. This has come on suddenly but very strongly after having kids so am working on acceptance but also would prefer to reduce the bumpiness if I can.

    2. Unfortunately….. no.

      A lot of it is genetics. I have friends who are higher weight, who have amazing legs with no cellulite, and even when I was a tiny skinny 3 sport athlete in high school I had cellulite that my mean girl sports-mates used to point out (!). Obviously muscle toning/weight loss can help some visibility issues, but … it is what it is. Don’t waste your money on all that stuff. Just try to tone your body (I like yoga), eat well and figure out how to dress your body so you feel comfortable.

      1. Stuck in mod for posting a link but basically this. There are a few approved treatments but they are $$$ and only work for a year or so at a time. I felt much better about my cellulite once I saw that my 3mo old baby also had it – it’s truly just a genetic thing that I’ve had and will have my whole life. Being more toned helps but overall I try not to sweat it too much.

        1. Louder for the people in the back. I have it and have at every weight I’ve been since high school. My mom has it. My 11 year old has it. It’s just the way my body’s made. Lifting can help a bit with toning, but I otherwise like to use self-tanner in the summer to reduce appearance. Shrug. I still wear shorts.

    3. It’s the way your cells are assembled. I’ve heard the nearby layer of cells described as a mesh net, and if you have cellulite, your fat cells poke through the mesh net and create the dimpled appearance. Everyone has the mesh net layer of cells, but some people’s mesh net is much more finely “woven” and they don’t get poke-through like we cellulite ladies do. This explains why “tightening” creams work temporarily.

    6. There are ways to temporarily reduce its appearance, but you mostly need to lose fat since it is fat. We all need some fat, though, so you’re kind of stuck with a certain amount of it.

    7. My skinny sister has it and she’s more athletic and younger than me. She got it first too. Luck of the draw.

  8. I posted yesterday about how I might lose my job this week. I just found out that I’m all clear!!! Happy dance!

    5. So happy for you!!!

      But – maybe this is a sign you need to start getting your ducks in a row and looking at other options?

  9. The post above reminded me about the fashion that was popular when I was a teenager in the 90s. Shopping at The Limited was a big deal for me. Anyone remember Outback Red? I remember Guess jeans with the logo on the back pocket. And I really wanted one of those Liz Claiborne purses with the little triangles on them.

    1. Wet Seal, Contempo Casuals and Mandee (sp?) were SO good when I was a teen. I also wore a lot of things from Limited/Banana Republic/Jcrew (the last two were mostly in college when I could afford them with a combo of sales and money from a part time job). I still miss the early 2000s Jcrew items which must be a common feeling as they are reissuing a lot of their ‘classics’ (roll neck sweaters, Jackie cardigans, etc.)

    3. I wanted a pair of Guess jeans so bad!

      Later on, I wanted (but couldn’t afford) Doc Martens so I settled for a knockoff version from Tradehome.

    4. I’m an Old and from a small town so I didn’t have access to the “coolest” stores. I worked after school at JC Penney and sewed a lot of my own clothes. I think people got their Chemin de Fers from Miller’s Outpost, but I didn’t have any.

      There was a 5-7-9 in the small shopping center I worked in, which was a popular place to shop, but I was 5’9”& 130 lb, so sized out of it, which seems so ridiculous to me now!

      1. Ha! Miller’s Outpost! The fitting rooms had swinging saloon-style doors! When I was in high school and college the cool thing was Dittos jeans, which had a seam that went up one leg, around your butt, and down the other leg! We’d wear them with our Candie’s platform slides, which appear to have made a comeback. Good times, man…

        I also loved Contempo Casuals.

        1. I’m probably a handful of years younger – I wanted Dittos so badly in junior high. I knew girls who had them in every color! I never did get to own any Candie’s slides, but can you believe 3” heels were casual school day shoes for tweens and teens?

          1. I had a pair of beautiful butter yellow Dittos. Man, I loved those pants…

    5. As much as I roll my eyes about a teen who wants luxury goods, I do remember wanting the cool brands so badly as a kid in the 90s because I thought that not having the name brands was holding me back from fitting in. In hindsight, I can see that wasn’t quite the case, but it sure felt like it at the time. In reality, it was only a small handful of kids who even had access to that stuff. So I try to have some grace and compassion for the kids who just want to fit in, but at the same time, I am not buying a $200 dress for my kid unless it’s for prom or something (and from what I’ve heard, that would be a bargain). My kids are growing up in a much higher socioeconomic bracket than I did and seem to have almost no brand anxiety (yet), which I find interesting and somewhat surprising. At least so far, in our neighborhood, many families seem to splurge on athletic gear and the rest is from Target, Old Navy, or other mall brands.

      1. I have observed a lot of inflation in middle-class kids’ expectations over the past few decades. When I was in eighth grade in 1991, the coveted items were $50 Guess jeans and a vinyl purse from Esprit that was $20 or $30. Those jeans would cost $115 today. I never got a pair and had to wear the $25 Bongo brand jeans from JC Penney. These days the prestige items are $500+ Golden Goose sneakers and $600 LoveShackFancy dresses. When I was in high school it was a big deal to have your own used Corolla, which you could afford to buy with earnings from a part-time or summer job. Now my daughter’s high school parking lot in a middle-class suburb similar to where I grew up is filled with brand-new Jeeps and pickup trucks with a few Teslas thrown in; meanwhile, even used cars have gotten so expensive that no teen could afford to buy one with their own money. There are families at our church where the teen daughters wear a different LSF dress and GG sneakers every Sunday. It’s madness.

        1. Is this coming from income inequality and the vanishing middle market? The middle class basically splitting into people doing much better, or much worse, than when I was growing up?

        2. Also in middle class parents’ expectations! You look at all the must-have suburban mom items and they are all pricey versions of things (ok, I do have a Stanley but I have ONE and use it every day). My mom drank out of a glass from the cabinet, maybe a plastic cup that had an insulating layer if you remembered to put it in the freezer ahead of time. And everyone used to shop at JCPenney, whereas now we need Lulu and beyond as standard issue lounge clothes.

          I don’t want to be all “lattes and avocado toast are making you poor,” but there is a serious lifestyle component IN ADDITION to big market forces that are dragging people down.

          1. The number of people on our normal middle-class street with $60K pickup trucks and boats and RVs. I assume that they are financing these with debt and that there is some tradeoff with retirement and college savings because after plowing an unholy percentage of my income into those accounts I don’t have money left over for toys.

        3. My stepdaughter’s mom is in a much higher income bracket than we are, and thus I have a frontrow seat to the brand expectations of the children of the wealthy. Her wardrobe and her friends’ wardrobes are 75-80% Aviator Nation, LSF, and Lululemon. J.Crew is considered a low-end brand and I’m literally not sure if she knows that Target sells clothes. She has GG’s with some kind of special shoelace that you only get from them that costs $40? And an entire medicine cabinet full of Drunk Elephant and Dior lip oils. She’s 13. Her friends’ older siblings all drive high-end SUVs, including one kid who got a G-Wagon as a first car. They’re all nice kids, but honestly it is really hard to be normal or have any idea of what life is like for most people when that is your everyday.

          She has one friend who is not in the same income bracket and I feel like it must be REALLY hard to be that kid.

        4. It’s interesting to me that my teenage daughter likes clothes well enough but her crowd doesn’t seem very labels-focused. Granted, her crowd is mostly nerdy girls with middle or upper-middle-class parents, but she barely (if ever) mentions the brand of anything she buys or finds.

          They are city kids in a place where it’s way easier to get to a thrift store than an upscale mall, maybe that’s part of it? I don’t know, but I grew up in an exurb where people were straight-up vicious about clothing brands (so much so that I wished for uniforms) and it’s quite refreshing to me.

        5. Your Guess jeans example is just regular inflation. $50 in 1991 is about equivalent to $112 in 2023 according to online inflation calculators.

          But the abundance of cheap clothing is something I didn’t have when I was a teen in the 80s. I wanted a pair of Levi’s, they were $30. I can buy a new pair of Levi’s for $30 today, albeit not their top of the line. 501s are about twice as much now, especially since you can always get at least 25% off (which really wasn’t as common back then.)

          I relate to the “wants” inflation you describe – I’m sure my 1976 mini station wagon that I borrowed from my parents was uncool even then, but I didn’t go to Harvard Westlake, I just felt lucky to have a car.

          But if you look at what is considered a typical family home now for the middle class to upper middle class set, it’s way larger than homes used to be. I’m sure most people on here would consider a 3 bedroom 1 bath rancher to be totally inadequate for raising three kids, but it was completely typical tract housing in the 1950s-1970s. So it’s not just the kids.

          1. The inflation calculation is the point. Guess jeans would now be about 1/6 the cost of the LSF dresses.

    7. I grew up in a small town without any stores…the Delia’s catalog was a dream to browse through!

      1. oh my god Delias. My dream closet when I was 15 or 16. I did my best to make / sew copies from what I could find at goodwill. Saved up enough babysitting money to buy 20-eye Doc Martens … my first big splurge. wish I still had them.

      2. Oh man – if someone brought back Delia’s for adults with adult money, they would be instant billionaires.

    8. I remember Outback Red. Wasn’t that when Out of Africa became popular and we all wanted to dress like we were rich Europeans on safari in the early 1900s? I loved the swoopy skirts but was really too short to pull them off.

      Anyone remember Santa Cruz? For some reason, that is the brand I remember most from my high school years (early- mid 1980s). I had matching top and skirt sets – one was in autumn colors, like navy and olives and oranges and mustards, and the other was more spring colors, light pastel greens and pinks and purples.

      And the kids these days think they invented matching sets!

    9. I am so old that the high end jeans were Levi’s for those who were straight up and down, and Wrangler’s for those with waist to hip differential.

      1. I’m that old too. 501s were “preppy” and Wranglers were for kids in FFA. I transitioned from FFA to the 501 crowd as I prepared to go to college my senior year of high school.

        1. To me Wranglers are for FFA kids and skinny old men (my grandfather and one of my grad school professors).

    10. I think we grew up at the same time because I loved the couple of Outback Red shirts that I had! Also coveted Esprit and Guess. One time I got a United Colors of Benneton shirt and thought it was the best!

  10. I think this has been discussed recently but now I can’t find it. I’m in the market for a tinted face sunscreen. I have middle aged combo skin that tends to get greasy with a lot of sunscreens. I’ve used Clinique city block in the past but it gets shinier than I’d like. My complexion really fair with dark hair (think Clare Frasier from Outlander, but pink).

    1. I like Missha M BB Cream, but it’s a bit more coverage than City Block, I think. It’s quite inexpensive, so might be worth a try. I’d go with shade 21. You want the red tube. The other one is more dewy.

    3. I like the Josie Maran one, or Laura Mercier (the latter feels heavier to me though).

    4. Just a thought, but I’ve noticed the SPF 25 version of City Block is much less greasy than the one in the orange tube that’s SPF 50. I can’t stand that higher-octane one, but the lighter version seems to work fine for my combo skin. I feel your pain, though. It is hard to find a good face sunscreen that doesn’t clog pores, isn’t greasy, etc.

    5. The new Tatcha sunscreen works great on my fair combo skin. It’s about 2x the price of the City Block, but way more matte.

    6. EltaMD UV Physical SPF 41. I’m NW20 in Mac foundations, and the EltaMD Physical is perfect for my middle aged, combo skin.

      If you’re truly very fair, then I’d suggest Paula’s Choice Resist Super Light Daily Wrinkle Defense.

      1. I’m NC20 in Mac with middle-aged combo skin and love Elta MD’s physical SPF 41. I’ve been using it for a handful of years now with no complaints.

      2. I also use Elta physical sunscreen just about daily. I’m white with blue undertones and darkish hair. I especially like that I can put anything on top of it: bb cream, liquid foundation or powder. It all sits the same for me. Most days I use it on its own though.

  11. ‘Rettes with gray/white hair (under 50 or so) I’m going on a gray transformation journey tomorrow (an all-day hair appointment that will blend my 30-40% gray/white roots and streaks with the rest of my hair) and I’m having some last-minute concerns. (I 100% understand I can dye over it, but it’s almost $2000 so that would be extremely foolish!) I’m very ready to get off the dye carousel and all the various colors I’ve tried in the last 10 years are “off” (including a full head of blonde highlights on my dark ash brown hair). I’m 90% there but…

    I work with about 80% women (healthcare) and many of them have natural gray hair. Granted, they’re all in their mid-late 50s or older and I’m in my mid 40s. But they just look so…dowdy! Sure, some of it is styling choices–wearing dated glasses, no makeup, “I give up” clothes, etc etc, but it does register as a cautionary tale. Like wearing a casual tee and pull on pants is just loungewear and comfortable when you “read” as young but when you have white hair, it’s “when’s the early bird special”.

    I guess I’m kind of panicking that I’ll lose all the color and contrast and youthfulness from my face (I’m already quite pale and muted), age myself 20 years, and with the job market the way it is, face even more discrimination should I be kicked back onto the search for some reason.

    I also struggle because I notice that women have a way of encouraging other women to do potentially unflattering things with their hair–go gray, get pixie cuts, get sharp dramatic “stacked bob” haircuts, get side shaves and under-cuts, get dark red-purple dye, get buzz cuts, for reasons I don’t quite understand, without any acknowledgement that most people “rocking” those extreme styles are hair models, models, or entertainers/public figures. When I ask about it, people online are very encouraging, but then when I see it in real life…it looks aging and dowdy unless it’s someone with a professional stylist or who is otherwise very, very conventionally attractive.

    Can people share their real gray journeys and maybe a reassure me here?

    1. Well, you’ve voiced a lot of the concerns that I’ve had, too. I am not quite ready for my own gray transformation but I’m trying to get there over the next 5 years because I’m getting sick of dyeing and the roots are coming back SO QUICKLY. What I’ve observed is that makeup and styling make a huge difference in how you look with gray hair. If you wear nice clothes and just enough makeup to add some polish and glow, I don’t think you need to be a supermodel to pull off gray hair. I think intentionality is what separates dowdy and sloppy from looking stylish.

      That said, if you’re not ready, there’s no shame in that. I think there’s a sort of opposite kind of pressure to let it go and be au naturale.

    2. Your post is coming across as super judgy and condescending. I don’t have any advice for you other than to stop caring what other people think about you because most of them don’t.

    3. I think this will have to come from within you. ‘Dowdy’, “I give up” clothes, “when’s the early bird special” can easily be reframed as ‘I don’t base my choices on being visually pleasing to you’.
      Your word choices say a lot about how you view older women, their worth and right to take up space.

      2. I realize I didn’t word that in the most sensitive way, clearly it’s coming off a lot harsher than intended. Of course people absolutely have a right to live/take up space etc. even if I personally don’t want to copy their style or fall into that particular visual presentation. I think people are interpreting this in the most negative light possible here, which is unfortunate!

        1. When multiple people have called you out for being offensive, you pull the “I’m sorry you feel that way” excuse and the “I was just trying to be funny but you have no sense of humor” excuse. The fact that you are making your husband spend $2k on a dye job speaks volumes. Lol. Some day you will be in your 50’s like the colleagues you were cackling about, but you won’t have any self-awareness to regret your ageist attitude.

      3. +100 Those stereotypes are really judgmental. I suppose it is good to know what people like you think of my “I give up clothes” (what are those exactly?) but also good to know that at 51 with my greying hair I don’t really give a crap what your type thinks anymore. That is the gift of being older, and I hope you receive that gift someday.

    4. I’m 48, also in healthcare, and have mostly gray hair, mingled with brown. I understand the vibe you’re describing here, and I think the main issue is that gray hair can read as “neglect” unless you put effort into your overall style/look. If you don’t want it to look aging/dowdy, your gray hair has to look intentional. I’ve gradually started wearing cheek color more often, and I almost always wear some sort of lip color. I always wear earrings. Eyebrows are really important in bringing contrast to your face. Mine are still dark and full (partly thanks to NeuBrow serum), but if yours are not, consider a professional brow shaping. Pay close attention to how your clothes fit, use accessories to make outfits look intentional, keep your shoes clean and updated.

      FWIW I’ve found that gray hair gives me more gravitas. It’s behind a paywall, but if you have a WSJ subscription, check out the article “Gray Hair Is A New Power Move for Women at Work”.

      I’d love to hear how it turns out! Please send an update post-transformation.

      1. Thank you! You get it–I realize what I thought were more tongue in cheek comments are coming off much more judge-y than intended, I have trouble conveying tone in writing, clearly!

        1. I don’t really think there’s any other way to interpret it. Even if you thought you were being funny, you’re clearly full of contempt for the women you work with. Maybe give that some thought.

        2. Really think about it, because there is a lot to unpack in your original post. I hear you on not loving the gray transformation process and even sympathized with you to a point, but there is a lot of internalized misogyny in your post. It’s more than just tone, tbh.

      2. This is great advice. Also, bright colored glasses (if you need them) can look amazing with grey hair.
        I’ve found that some of the colors that used to look great on me, now do not (i.e red, beige, cream, all black). But, I now look better in a lot more colors that used to be unflattering (cool orange, light blue, some yellows, etc.). So you may need to get rid of some clothes, and buy replacements in your new flattering colors.
        Once you’ve transitioned to natural grey hair, get blue shampoo. It makes a big difference and you need to use it consistently to keep the brassiness down. (Once a week works for me.)

    5. I can’t figure out why you’re doing this since you don’t seem to want to be one of those gray-haired women. I certainly would not spend $2000 on something you’re so ambivalent about.

      I’m 59 and probably 20-30% gray. I used to do light brown highlights in my dark brown hair to “blend” in the grays. But I didn’t like having roots so used the pandemic to switch to an all over color (Madison Reed) that I did at home. Since that kind of color does not bleach the hair but rather deposits color, it fades over time.

      I probably used it for two years then stopped. I saw that I was growing a gray streak toward the front of my head and I wanted to see how it looked if I didn’t color over it.

      So now my hair is totally natural color. I have a gray streak at my forehead on one side and scattered silver strands across my whole head. I like it and I don’t care if I look my age, so that helps.

    6. OP I don’t have advice as I haven’t done this. But it’s on my mind and has been for some time. Your concerns are something I think about. I fear that what looks charmingly natural on others will have an aura of “doesn’t care” on my aging, short, overweight body that is not dressed in a fashion forward manner. I have contemplated upping my fashion game and/or wearing a dramatic lipstick and no other makeup to maybe make it work.

      I care how I look. I care how others perceive me. I care how I’m treated based on those perceptions. What I don’t care about is the opinion of those who want to dismiss or twist those cares into some sort of fault or shortcoming. So I would be really interested in hearing whether you go forward with this, and if you do, what your thoughts on it are.

      1. Same. The OP’s description is what keeps me coloring my hair. It’s a time-consuming pain, but so would upping my wardrobe and cosmetics game to balance the gray out. My sister went gray several years ago and it’s aged her substantially.

        I’m looking to switch industries in the next few years to a field where this will matter even more, so I’m keeping the hair color appointments for the foreseeable future.

      2. My boss could be described as having an aging, short, overweight body that is not dressed in a fashion forward manner… and her graying hair looks charmingly natural to me. She has an authoritative demeanor, a great smile, and a singer’s voice that carries. Her conservative wardrobe reads as reliable. I think she’s pulling it all off!

        1. Maybe if you are Elena Kagan you can get away with any hair and clothes and be “charmingly natural.” The rest of us need the authoritative demeanor, the great smile, the voice that carries, AND a stellar resume, toned shoulders, and a sharp wardrobe and hairstyle to have the slightest chance of being taken seriously.

    7. I’ll respond only to your 4th paragraph as I can’t relate to the first three, but I encourage any friend who is considering a hair change to go for it, even if I don’t think it’ll 100% suit them, because life is short and they clearly want to try something new and just want the push to go for it. It’s just hair, if they hate it, it’ll grow out or they will try to get it fixed, and if they love it who cares what I think about it? Also, there’s no universal standard of what is “unflattering.” Maybe you think only models can pull of certain looks, but others would disagree.

      Frankly, I think your characterization of women encouraging other women to purposefully do unflattering things says a lot about your general outlook on life. Idk what you should do about your gray journey, but you should consider a journey that leads you to not think so badly of other women.

    8. I am sure this is an unpopular opinion here, but I will be honest and say that I do think gray hair ages women significantly.

      1. +1 – sorry, but yeah. I’m in my mid-40s and I’ll happily keep paying to be my 30 year old hair color indefinitely.

      2. Another +1. I am 49 and still doing highlights, went even lighter to blend in the gray. I don’t have much, and may not actually get much if i take after my dad (similar coloring), but I will be 90 at the nursing home getting my hair dyed. In my opinion, it is very hard to make gray hair look good — I’ve seen it look good when thick, straight, shiny, bouncy hair – which few have OR in my case would take more work straightening, blowing dry etc.. I also think you need to play up features with makeup i.e. lipstick even if you have wonderful bone structure.

      3. I sort of agree, but nothing makes a woman look older than flat dyed hair next to an old face. Whether it’s brown, red or jet black, that woman looks worse than having natural gray. I do think there’s room for dyed hair on much older women if it’s very professional and multilayered color (or highlights, babylights, whatever), but just “not gray” does not make an old woman look younger.

        1. Yes, this. I understand covering up grays in your 30s and 40s, but there comes a point where it actually looks better to have hair to match the face, rather than an obviously fake color.

        2. There’s a point where flat dyed hair looks worse and older, rather than flattering and ‘younger’.

        3. It’s true – as one’s face ages, it’s more flattering to go lighter in the hair. Graying hair does this for us naturally, but if you don’t want gray hair, blonde or blonde-adjacent is going to be less aging.

          1. And then you just look like every other “blonde” older woman because they all get the same cookie cutter advice and color.

      4. And then you just look like every other “blonde” older woman because they all get the same cookie cutter advice and color.

      5. I think it depends – a friend of mine has had silvery hair since we’ve met (about 20 years ago) and she looked much younger when she cut it into a chin-length bob (it had been long and straight before the cut).

        Honestly, I like the way gray hair looks…on other people. Me, I look like a Dorothea Lange photo without the strains of subtle heroism and pathos. I just look tragic.

    9. I mean, this is about who you are now. Are you put together now, with dyed hair? Then you’ll be put together after, with gray hair. Do you fall to peer pressure and do unflattering things to your hair now, like a Jon and Kate Plus 8 hair cut because someone told you to? No, ok, then I don’t expect you to lose your internal compass just because you changed your hair color.

      Turn your statement about your colleagues around to whatever your current hair color is. “Wow, there are some sloppy looking women are the grocery store with brown hair!” It’s ridiculous, right? Of course there are sloppy looking women with brown hair…and gray hair, and blonde, and pink, and whatever other color. Your coworkers are just your coworkers; they aren’t ambassadors for All Women with Gray Hair.

      I do think concerns about looking washed out are legitimate. I’d encourage you to make lip color (even a Burt’s Bees tinted lip balm if you’re a newbie) part of your daily routine, if you don’t already. And if you wear glasses, do consider a colored frame to add another shot of color.

      FWIW, my real estate agent is probably early 50s (one kid in college, one a high school senior) and she went gray during COVID and never looked back. She’s your average woman – attractive but not a model; cute preppy wardrobe; maybe a size 10 – and her gray bob is so much fun. And yes, she does a good job of wearing a lip color.

    10. My mom is in her 70s, and granted, has extremely beautiful white hair, but has managed to absolutely rock the natural look.

      The posted above is correct — she looks her best and very striking when she’s wearing lovely clothing, nice jewelry, and makeup.

    11. I found my first grays at age 12 and started coloring my hair to cover them at 19. I am now 47 and my hair has been completely white for several years. I have a cute, somewhat edgy pixie cut because that’s what works best with my hair texture and face shape. Over the year’s I’ve adjusted the shade and type of color I get and increased the frequency of color treatments to avoid obvious roots. I am not planning to stop coloring my hair for at least another decade. From observing several women who went gray or who went from gray back to coloring their hair, I have concluded that gray hair can easily add at least 10 years to a woman’s apparent age. I just don’t feel like looking 57 when I feel more like 42, especially given the reality of age discrimination in the workplace.

      I do know a few younger women with very cool-looking white or gray streaks in their hair (all have a generally funky vibe), and one woman who is maybe in her mid-40s with a fantastic steel gray bob that is not in the least frumpy. If you choose to go gray you do need to be very careful about your haircut and other aspects of your style to avoid frump, but some people can pull it off with effort. 30-40 percent gray all over is actually one of the most difficult stages, though. All gray or all white or defined streaks is striking; allover part gray is what tends to look most faded. And I don’t know why you have decided to go gray when it doesn’t seem like what you really want.

      1. Going gray/white is the best of several not-great options basically. I have naturally dark ash brown hair that’s about 40% gray/white–been going white for 15 years now. White roots grow in really quickly, blonde highlights looked shockingly bad growing out into gray/white roots, yellow-blonde highlights, and ash brown hair, and even high-end dyes like Madison Reed just didn’t look right (and were damaging my hair or giving uneven results).

        I tried a couple things during the pandemic: growing it out naturally and then doing a “big chop”, I realized that I was at about 30% gray/white and it looked very unkempt and aging, even more so with a short hairdo. I wound up doing high end dye to try to color match and cover grays but most dyes have warm tones–it’s surprisingly hard to find truly ash toned dye. But then ash toned dye was going green and “muddy”. It was just a hassle and it never looked good. Also, I have incredibly stubborn dye resistant grays that “pop out” days after dying.

        I can’t really afford an every few months appointment for either a pro job or highlights/toner/etc and my husband has been generous enough to offer to cover this one-time just get it done all at once process. I had a consultation and I’m hoping this will look intentional and help with the process as I can see I’m getting close to 50% or more gray.

        1. If you can’t maintain the color in a way that looks good, then you definitely need to focus on optimizing the cut. Short hair isn’t for everyone and is very difficult to get dialed in, but not all short cuts are bad. I have had a pixie cut forever and the difference between cool, polished professional and frumpy grandma can be literally half an inch in the bangs. Long hair can work with gray but you need to find a way to smooth the texture (daily blowouts?) and the cut needs to be well shaped and maintained, or you need to go full-on crazy art teacher and let it all go wild and wear long floral skirts.

        2. FWIW, I think that ash brown lends itself well to intentional gray. 30% to 40% gray is a difficult place to be and you’ve tried all your other reasonable options. I think you should go for it with the attitude that the only way to know is to try. Maybe it will look as good as I’m envisioning and make things easier going forward. Maybe you’ll hate it and change it in two weeks. That will stink, but making any error in judgment that costs $2000 stinks. If you crashed your car and were out $2000, you’d feel bad but learn from the experience and move past it. Do the same here.

          1. I am skeptical that a $2,000 color job is the best or only way to make this shift. Bleaching the hair and then coloring it a different shade tends to wreck the hair’s texture.

    12. I stopped coloring in 2021 and I think I look fabulous. I am very much a girl-next-door type and aged 50 now. My hair is maybe 70 % dark ash blonde and 30 % grey. I’m also pale. I found it took quite a while to figure out what worked to keep the frumpiness at bay. I used to wear bangs always, but now I wear no bangs. I also wear my hair longer than I ever used to. But it was trial and error to figure that out. I think things that might have worked for you before going grey may not work so well after, but you are certainly not resigned to frumpiness. And it’s fun to experiment a little.

      A little blush can go a long way in terms of adding a bit of color to the face. I don’t think you should worry about being washed out. I wear less makeup overall now than I used to. And I don’t think your clothes have to change with grey hair. Gently- I think dowdy sweats on a mid forties person with dyed hair are likely going to look just as unfashionable as on the same person with grey hair. It’s the age range, not the hair color; we are not 18 anymore.

    13. I think what everyone else has said is true – paying attention to how your clothes fit and your makeup will be important. If you think about it, if you changed from brunette to blonde or blonde to brunette, you’d probably need to rethink your makeup, too.

      I think it’s normal to fear appearing older, and I do wonder if the people here dismissing those claims tend to be young enough not to have encountered that first crazy wiry gray eyebrow.

      1. +1. Not exactly OP’s situation, but about 10 years ago I had a coworker who was mid-50s and went from dyed dark brown hair to natural white /silver hair. She stands out in my mind bc it was the first time I remember a woman whose appearance improved after the dyed-to-white t r a n s i t i o n.
        Her hair was very short but nicely styled (same cut in both colors), and soft and healthy looking. She wore fabulous lipstick and otherwise tasteful makeup, and stylish eyeglasses. Her clothes were not particularly remarkable — sort of standard business casual but put together.

    14. This will be an unpopular take, but I feel like a person can get away with one “flaw”. As long as you are “perfect” all but one of these areas you can get away with the “flaw”. Once you get into having two or more “flaws” you start to look old/dowdy, what have you. The categories are: weight/figure, gray hair, skin, “good” clothes, teeth. So a woman with a “trim” figure, well cared for skin, and “good” clothes can have grey hair and look great. A woman with “I give up” clothes and grey hair looks much older.

      4. I think you may have articulated something I clearly struggled to express in my initial comment. I feel that sometimes women are both held to a standard in practicality/the real world and then gaslighted about that standard when they express it or struggle with it–gray hair being a prime example.

        While I’m not sure I’d call it a “flaw” per se, I’d go with “stepping outside conventional beauty standards” perhaps. And I agree–it’s much easier to have one item that is outside beauty standards if you meet those others. And it’s maddening to have people bring up EmmyLou Harris as if she weren’t stunning and an entertainer! When was the last time EmmyLou Harris interviewed at a male dominated corporate company? (Or Andi McDowell, or any other major celeb/public figure who’s stunning and *happens* to be gray).

        1. This is a great point: “I feel that sometimes women are both held to a standard in practicality/the real world and then gaslighted about that standard when they express it or struggle with it–gray hair being a prime example.” I also wonder, as someone else noted, if commenters up on their high horse about how they don’t care how they’re perceived by others are too young to have faced (or worried about facing) age discrimination, which is a real thing for those of us who are 50+ and still need to work for another 15 years or more.

          1. I think this is exactly it – aging hasn’t knocked them off that high horse yet.

        2. I don’t claim to always be super confident, and able to ignore the standards. I get in my head about what others will say, it’s normal!
          But what I, and perhaps others reacted to was that NaoNao in her post, was very clearly upholding the crazy high standard. It’s different to say ‘I am worried about going grey because I feel like I will be judged for ‘giving up” vs ‘I am worried about going grey because the women I work with look dowdy and like they have given up’. That makes it sound like you are actively participating and endorsing those standards, however cheeky you meant to come across.

        3. Agree. Emmylou Harris is so freaking beautiful. For goodness sake if you look like that please don’t ask me for beauty advice!

      5. Unpopular but true.

        You can find plus-sized people who are very fashionable. You can (with effort if you do not want to look very Texas) find over 50 people who are very fashionable. Try finding a fashion blog for someone who is both. It was one of the reasons I decided to do something about my weight. Because age discrimination is real and weight discrimination is real and both together – oof.

        1. I usually agree with SA, but I can’t agree that women have to look perfect. My life is fine and my looks are not perfect (my teeth are crooked, I have some gray hair). There are things that would improve my life, but dyeing my hair or even getting my teeth straightened are not among them.

        2. Wow! SA endorsed my take! I can drop the mic. (Really, I’m not being sarcastic – this has made my day). Just to add clarity, I called certain choices “flaws” as a shorthand for “anything that makes you look not-young”, not because I believe they are something that MUST be corrected at all costs. And by “perfect” I meant “conforming to generic beauty standards”, not literally “perfect”.

          I totally agree with the poster who said this is a very real consideration for those of us over 50 who need to maintain forward career momentum for another 10+ years, especially those who work in “young” workplaces or fields. I happen to work in a wonderful organization that I love, but am in the top 3% of employees in age, and I’m only in my early 50s. I obviously don’t look 25 anymore, but I want to make sure that I present as vibrantly as I can to avoid being shoved aside as an “old” whose views aren’t relevant. If the average age of my colleagues wasn’t 20 years younger than me I would perhaps not be so concerned about appearing youthful.

          2. I’m mid-career right now, but I’ve been looking around my global biotech company and wondering where the older workers are. Biotech is a relatively newer field with lots of growth in the last two decades, so maybe there literally are fewer older workers compared to younger workers. However, it’s very noticeable how much youth is running around. Obviously as you go up the ranks, there are more workers with experience, but lots of 30 somethings directors running around.

        3. Coming back to emphasize this is not my personal take, it’s what I get from the world around me. I have observed that women are expected to look perfect but a maximum of one deviation from the expected beauty norms will often be tolerated.

      7. It’s clear that a lot of you are really afraid of looking older. But I know a lot of women in real life who are themselves as they age and their confidence is beautiful. It literally makes them look more beautiful.

        2. My natural hair color is dark brown. What is unnatural is that my hair turned white before I was 40. I do not look beautiful or like myself with white hair; I look unnaturally old and washed out. Coloring my hair medium brown with some dimension avoids the flat color look and appears most natural at my age.

          There’s a big difference among overdone lip fillers, someone like Helen Mirren aging gracefully and beautifully and stylishly, and a frumpy dumpy woman who is prematurely aged. I intend to go for the middle option when it is age-appropriate and not one second before.

    15. I did this journey during the pandemic, when the salons were closed.

      You’re going to need to do a reassessment of your makeup and wardrobe color choices. I look better in the brighter colors of my palette now than I do in the more subtle or neutral ones.

      I used to be able to get away with minimal/no makeup, but I find I need to at least do my brows/lashes and wear lip and cheek color to avoid looking washed out.

      And you’re right – the cut and styling make all the difference between grey hair looking frumpy or stylish.

    16. I guess unflattering is in the eye of the beholder. You don’t have to do this gray transformation if you think you will find it unflattering. If you do it and hate it, I’m not sure dying that over it would be such a big mistake. You tried something, you didn’t like it, you changed it. Yes that’s an expensive learning experience, but it sounds like you have the money to spend on looking the way you want to look and that’s a fine thing to spend money on. It’s fine to care about your appearance, and people’s perceptions of you based on your appearance, and it’s fine to go gray or not based on your own personal preference — no more, no less.

      FWIW, I’m mid-40s, I wear no make up most days, and have a gray streak that is more or less visible depending on how I do my hair. In the past I had a pixie cut and buzzed my hair. I did a crummy but fun for me at home job of dying one of the pixie cuts purple. I have a weakness for not-quite-standard business clothing, e.g. corduroy suits. I know I don’t look like a model. I’m sure some folks look(ed) at me and wonder why I did/do/wear these unflattering things, but I enjoy(ed) all of these things and that is enough for me to keep my look. Life is short and the number one person I care about looking good to is…me.

    17. Without reading the other comments first, I will be very honest: I started going gray in my 20s and when I was in my 40s I decided to go au naturel. I wasn’t all silver, it was a mix of silver and… not. Plus naturally curly. Everybody said it looked great at the time. Well, one day I was at the dentist’s office and I picked up a copy of Newsweek magazine and the cover story was about women and gray hair. It had a bunch of photos of famous women, the ones who dyed were photoshopped to look gray, and the ones who were gray were photoshopped to look not-gray. And guess what? Every single one of them looked better and younger not-gray. I left the dentist, made an appointment with a colorist, went back to blonde, and haven’t looked back for 20 years. And lo and behold even all the people who said I looked great with the gray hair admitted I looked better and younger with it colored.

      Granted, it’s a lot of time and expense and GOD BLESS (and I mean that sincerely from the bottom of my heart) everybody who takes a different route. There is a large part of me that envies the women who can pull of gray hair, but I’m happy with my fake blonde hair and plan to keep it as long as I can.

      Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. And if you want to email me at seniorattorney1 at gmail I will send you gray and not-gray pics.

    18. I work in a male-dominated area and am old for a woman still working in my city. Apparently I live in the 1950s?

      I’ve never colored my hair. I’m 52 now. I knew when I started to go gray that even my grandmother took decades to get to 30% gray and I just had two streaks. My hair is all pretty straight, but medium brown. The gray is white and just looks very shiny (think: Stacy London). My hair is shoulder length. I am pretty short but am a size 6/8 and dress pretty J Crew / Banana / DVF. I feel that if more things were visibly “aged” or “let yourself go” as others see it (highly loaded judge-y terms that I hate, but you all know what I mean), I’d feel more pressure to color my hair. But I honestly couldn’t handle work + hair + teen kids, so the hair just has to be what it is. Everything else is regularly maintained.

    19. This whole thread just reminded me how much women will think less of me because I’m not conventionally attractive or skinny or blessed with white teeth. Love this place sometimes.

      1. The mean girl tone of OP’s made me feel the same. Especially the “you can have one flaw” discourse. Wow.

      2. If these things don’t matter to you why do you bother with these comments? Good grief: blessed with white teeth? You can’t be bothered with whitening toothpaste and a box of white strips? No one thinks less of you but you could look better IF YOU wanted to. These aren’t ancient beauty secrets; it’s all available at cvs. If it’s not your bag that’s fine but stop pretending like the rest of us do zero to look like this.

        1. I use whitestrips and whitening toothpaste. These remove stains but do not change the natural color of the teeth from ivory to brilliant white. For that you need veneers, which are a big nope for me.

          1. +1 social media and veneers have really warped people’s idea of what teeth should look like. Normal teeth are not brilliantly white.

        2. The whitening toothpaste damaged my enamel and the white strips made my teeth look mottled. I know that other people are putting a lot of effort, time, and money into it, but I also know that the amount of effort, time, and money required isn’t the same for everyone!

      3. No kidding. I’m sorry that I am not perfect enough. One flaw? I have many, according to that horrible post above. Seems I can either waste my life worrying about that, or I can get on with it and find some damn acceptance.

    20. Chiming in late to say that there’s a huge difference between a 12 hour gray transformation and walking around with the wirey grays that most gray haired women have. A blown out pretty gray with stylish blending and highlights is just not the same as random coarse hairs sticking up everywhere. What you’re doing is totally different. And if you hate it you can try something else.

      Gray transformations are like a lot of other beauty treatments. Other stylish women will recognize what you’ve done but most will just think that you’re lucky and your natural gray was beautiful. It’s like my barely past the finger tips baby pink perfect nails. They’re totally fake. My medium length dark brown hair is thickened up with a row of extensions so it looks like it did when I was 30. If you’re going to ask me about cuticle oil and conditioner I’ll tell you but most people see fake hair and nails as totally over the top so it doesn’t register to them that that’s what they’re seeing. All this to say I think you’re on the right track here and good luck.

      1. I am skeptical that the $2,000 color transformation is going to yield that smooth polished gray look instead of a fried bleached look. The smooth gray hair usually comes from a super toxic keratin treatment, which is also expensive and time-consuming.

    21. Honestly don’t do it. It is aging and unflattering. If you don’t care, fine, but you do care and that’s okay. I care too.

    22. If you are only 30-40% gray mixed with ash brown you can probably go natural without a pricey all-day color treatment. Just get some ashy highlights to minimize the contrast and then grow it out. The skunk stripe effect happens when the hair is all dyed flat dark brown and it’s growing out 50% or more stark white. With your hair color and level of gray I’m imagining the all-day color treatment as more of a trendy all-over artificial dimensional gray treatment, which will require maintenance.

    23. You can’t afford to maintain your roots but you can afford a $2,000 one-time treatment? That does not compute.

    24. I went grey during the pandemic, but I dress sharply, use lipstick and bright colours and am anything but frumpy. Google grey hair support groups. I’ve gotten tons of compliments on my hair.

  12. i turn 39 over the weekend and would really love to lose ~15lbs before I turn 40. obviously weight comes off slower these days. i can be a bit of an emotional eater, but i really want to head into my 40s taking good care of my body. i generally drink 80 ounces of water a day. i have 5 year old twins, and for the past two months i have been focusing on trying to get 10k steps a day, which is actually hard to do between work and life! i also live in an area where it is already 95+ degrees. anyway – tips for losing weight as you age?

    1. I lost 85 lbs (then gained 5 back) at the age of 54 and it involved some work. I took the walks, I find it hard to get 10k steps without taking a deliberate walk every morning. I put my exercise clothes out within reach of my bed, so when I get up they are first things I see and I put them on and go walk 4/5 miles. This helps me get out before anyone stops me, and before the heat of the day makes it too miserable to walk. I use dumbbells and resistence bands — lifting weights is invaluable for us middle-agers/aging gracefully people, because building and maintaining muscle is vital to keeping our strength, maintaining our weight, staving off dementia, balancing so we don’t break bones, etc. When I started losing weight I resisted drastic diet changes, but over the first year I made a number of positive changes — cutting way down on sugar, adding lots of water, increasing my green intake, adding protein and fiber. I found I could keep myself fuller and resist “treats.”

    2. I’m right behind you! I have gotten into some very poor eating habits lately, so I’m focusing mainly on not having as many sweets/junk food and reducing my portion sizes given my size and activity level. After a few days my hunger levels went down dramatically too – where before I would scrounge for snacks constantly, now I’ll have a smaller breakfast and don’t feel hungry afterwards. It’s hard for me to do dedicated exercise at the moment so I’m just focusing on nutrition for now, but I’ve found that if I pay for a gym membership, I go more often because I hate wasting money. Figure out what motivates you: accountability to work-out buddies, rewards for achieving certain goals, miserliness (like me) and set up the plan to give yourself the best chance of success.

    3. I don’t have time to type a long response but in my experience as a post-menopausal woman, I found I had to eat a lot of protein (and yes – the dreaded protein powder), not a lot of simple carbs, and very, very limited alcohol. I walk and lift weights for other health reasons but my diet was the overwhelming factor in my weight.

      I set rules for myself at home. No alcohol; no eating after dinner (cuts down on snacking due to boredom), one simple carb a day, DoorDash no more than once a month, but I am a person who responds well to self-made rules and that might not work for others. Also, these rules applied at home. I am also not someone who deals well with “you can never eat this again” (it makes me want to eat a box) so I give myself relatively free rein when I go out.

      Good luck!

    4. It’s what you eat, not how much you exercise. I find tracking calories helpful and I naturally do a kind of IF (I don’t get hungry for breakfast until 10 no matter what), other people will say that’s disordered and you should never do it. Find the way that works for you to eat fewer calories.

      1. Completely agree that the battle is won or lost in the kitchen, not the gym.

        1. Not for me. I can starve myself and not lose any weight. I have to engage in strength training and aerobic activity on a daily basis, eat just slightly below maintenance calories, and avoid processed foods and sodium in order to lose weight. If I eat too little I will actually gain weight while being completely exhausted and useless. The moderate “kitchen” components described above are not sufficient; the exercise is the real key. I assume it has something to do with metabolism and blood sugar management.

    5. Im in the process of doing this by lifting 20-30 mins 3-4x a week, making sure I get enough water, sleep, protein and produce, and then trying to get my 10K steps.

      I aim for at least 70 oz of water, 7:30 hrs asleep / 8:15 in bed, 100g of protein and 5 servings of produce.

    6. I just started on a weight loss journey and what’s helping me most is tracking what I’m eating in Lose It. I have it set to high protein, high fiber goals and am using the guidelines to 1) see how I’m eating when I choose whatever I want and 2) how I’m eating when
      Im more mindful about choosing high protein and/or high fiber options.

      I also started Best Body but haven’t had a chance to start the actual plan part of that yet. Trying to start that on Sunday and then go from there.

    7. Strength training helped me immensely. Lifting and tabata style exercises. I have a program I follow and it’s really worked for me – I usually only work out for 30-40 minute stretches, which is less intimidating to fit into my busy life.

    8. I just lost 15 pounds at 57 – pounds that came on over the past 10-15 years. I had to drastically cut my portions to do it. For example, half of a 6 oz portion of salmon is plenty. Half a turkey sandwich, one hard boiled egg when I’d previously eaten 2, etc. I miss snacking, but I don’t miss feeling overly full. I don’t feel like I’m starving myself, but I’m intentional about what I eat. I do think walking is healthy but it’s not going to take off pounds.

      1. When I took Home Economics in the 80s, we had to study portion sizes for meal planning. One serving of protein was (and still is!) FOUR OUNCES. The size of a deck of cards, is how they put it, so we could visualize it. One serving of pasta (penne) is 1/2 cup. Fill up the rest of the plate with vegetables. Restaurants in the US make massive portions, and people have been conditioned to think that a 12-oz steak is “one serving.”

      2. My older female relatives who stay slim eat tiny portions and exercise regularly.

  13. Help me shop for a dress to wear as a bridesmaid in my cousin’s wedding. It needs to be floor length, any material but satin, and light green but not sage – kind of a soft lime, or maybe the color of wasabi lol. Size 12ish, under $300, preferably. Thanks!

    3. that’s a tall order. i feel like she’d have better luck choosing something from a bridesmaids place where everyone wears the same color/fabric but in different styles

    5. Baltic Born maybe? I’m wearing a dress from there in my SIL’s wedding next week. Link in reply.

    6. In case it helps with your color search, I’ve seen “celadon” used for this color in the wedding industry.

    8. https://www.bloomingdales.com/shop/product/lidee-moderniste-pleated-gown?ID=4889297&CategoryID=21683

      https://www.bloomingdales.com/shop/product/paige-marcel-dress?ID=5108471&CategoryID=21683

      https://www.bloomingdales.com/shop/product/mac-duggal-sleeveless-ruffle-tiered-v-neck-gown?ID=5091284&CategoryID=21683

      https://www.bloomingdales.com/shop/product/cinq-a-sept-andie-dress?ID=5102885&CategoryID=21683

      https://www.bloomingdales.com/shop/product/eliza-j-embellished-halter-neck-pleated-dress?ID=5076741&CategoryID=21683

      https://www.macys.com/shop/product/strapless-3d-floral-embroidered-dress-with-tiered-maxi-skirt?ID=17701477

      https://www.macys.com/shop/product/quiz-womens-chiffon-embellished-round-neck-evening-dress?ID=18006967

      https://www.macys.com/shop/product/adrianna-papell-womens-beaded-gown?ID=14630607

      https://www.macys.com/shop/product/betsy-adam-womens-pleated-halter-gown?ID=17832522

      https://www.macys.com/shop/product/petal-pup-womens-melody-plisse-halter-maxi-dress?ID=17206346

    9. Anthropologie has some options in long green dresses. Not sure if they are too sage for you though…

      2. Some other links from Bloomingdales and Macys are stuck in m0d so check back later.

  14. My comment disappeared I think, but I am South Asian and while I didn’t get an allowance, I got rewards such as a new toy or an expensive clothing item if I got good grades.

    1. I have zero issue with this as a concept, but know your kid and what motivates them. As an internally motivated child, I bristled at being “rewarded” by my parents for doing things I felt I was doing for the sake of them, for myself. I can’t really explain it, but I really did not want to be taken for ice cream for getting a sports PR or paid for getting good grades. Those were victories/achievements in their own right for me and only me. But I am sure I was somewhat of an outlier.
      I did, though, learn to manage money (sort of) by getting an allowance that had to cover a few needs with some money left over for wants.

      1. I have Pathological Demand for Autonomy (PDA) and this is so me, I do things because *I* want to, being manipulated and cajoled will not go well

        1. Huh. That’s a fancy way of saying I want to do things my own way, must remember that.

          2. It’s not in the DSM-5 and there is clinical debate over what/if PDA is. I remember reading a reframe that you need a relationship for PDA to exist (you can’t push back against nothing, there is someone whose demands are triggering you), so why is only the child/person with PDA blamed? It’s perhaps more of a relationship problem than a personality problem

          3. Pathological demand avoidance (PDA) resists all externally imposed and internally imposed demands. These kids are so strongly wired to resist any and all obligations that they won’t even pursue their own goals.

          4. Sounds similar to the “rebel” in Gretchen Rubin’s framework. It’s a fine line between natural personality variation and a clinical diagnosis

      3. i actually have major issues with this as a concept. not all kids are capable of getting As or a sports PR despite trying their hardest. how does this work in a family with kids with different strengths. my grandmother paid my cousins for good grades, but my parents never let her do that for us and it would have destroyed my sister’s self esteem.

        1. I do, too. This seems very unfair if you have kids with varying abilities. Even without that, to me it feels like telling a kid that they’re only as worthy as their grades show. Not the lesson I want to pass on.

  15. Does anyone routinely have high creatinine when they get blood work done? There is no apparent reason for mine, but my doctor says that she has a few patients like this and they’re generally all with the same age range (40’s). Kind of curious how common it is.

      1. No, I’m a lifelong vegetarian who isn’t focused on eating a lot of protein and I’m not dehydrated and I get tested.

    3. I am but I’m eating high protein and may have been slightly dehydrated during my testing.

  16. I am going to a rollerderby party that is 70s disco themed. I have a black leather jacket and a black and silver KISS tshirt. I want to go for a sort of glam-rock look. How do I accessorize this look? I’m thinking a bright glitter eyeshadow and glossy pink lip. What pants would you wear? I don’t own leather pants and think they might be too hot for roller derby-ing (as the leather jacket I can always take off).

        1. That is not the look I had in mind. I think that veers 80s but do what you like.

    2. Sequin pants or shorts!

      These actually seem versatile: https://nordstrom.com/s/endless-rose-sequin-slit-leg-flare-pants/7193708?origin=keywordsearch-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FAll%20Results&color=001
      You can BE the disco ball: https://www.nordstrom.com/s/disco-fever-sequin-wide-leg-pants/7687184?origin=keywordsearch-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FAll%20Results&color=040
      Wild card, VERY short but so fun: https://www.nordstrom.com/s/sequin-high-waist-denim-micro-shorts/7772819?origin=keywordsearch-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FAll%20Results&color=400

    4. Fun fact: Amazon has costumes for every decade for very cheap. (And yes, I know there are a lot of people who think it’s a sin to buy that stuff. YMMV.)

    6. This is an excellent time for repurposing an old pair of skinny jeans into frayed hot pants or shorts, worn with fish nets or pop socks, with Converse or platform boots. Netting and crochet would be great.

  17. Interested to hear anecdata: if you take ssri’s have they helped with insomnia specifically? My (new) therapist says that they do and since insomnia and depression are correlated she is encouraging me to explore this option. TBH they scare me (always have) but the chronic insomnia is doing me in and I’m reaching another desperation phase. I have low level depression as well.

    1. Have you tried taking a lot of magnesium? This can really help with insomnia. I would be very reticent to take an SSRI for insomnia because it is not treating the problem, but masking it. Also post-SSRI syndrome would worry me. Why not just take a medicine specifically for insomnia.

    2. Trazodone is an SSRI that is also prescribed as a sleep aid. I take it and the only “side effect” is drowsiness … which is a good thing for those of us who can’t sleep.

      1. OP here – I tried trazodone and had an allergic reaction! My throat swelled up and then I didn’t dare try it again after that.

    3. If you do take an SSRI, be prepared for lactose intolerance as a side effect. With me, I couldn’t eat anything milk-based for about a year.

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