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Sales of note for 9.10.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Save up to 40% on new markdowns
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
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- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Cat
For those of you who liked the look of yesterday’s flats but not the pearls or the price, lucky sizes available for this one (NAS) – https://shop.nordstrom.com/s/ted-baker-london-grasce-flat-women/4754084?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FAnniversary%20Sale%2FWomen%2FShoes%2FFlats&color=nude%20leather
Ellen
I do like Ted Baker’s style, but they are flats, and I need at least kitten heels to be taken seriusly, so I may have to pass, even tho they are on sale at Nordstrom’s. This weekend, I am going out to the Hamton’s to stay with Margie. Martha, the manageing partner’s neice from Philadelphia will be there and she is about my age and newly divorced. The manageing partner wants me to cheer her up (I’m not sure how, but OK), so we will do stuff together this weekend at the beach and in town. The manageing partner told me I could take the weekend off, even tho it is now August and my 600 hours still have to be billed b/f Labor Day. I do not see anyway to legitimatly bill any of my time with Martha, as she is not an attorney, and I cannot discuss any kind of legal issues with her. FOOEY!
Anon
These are SO much cuter than the 80yr old church lady shoes from yesterday.
Shopaholic
I did like those pearl flats but I have these (or an older version of them) and I really like them.
Anon
Is anyone else having as bad of a time on Bumble and Hinge as I am as a single woman in her 30s? I’ve been tracking my Bumble usage in the past month and success rate. After swiping right about 300 times in the past month, only 3 of the men asked me out. That is like 3% success rate if we don’t take into account the actual quality of the date, which were all men I would never have gone out with if I met them in real life (ie looked worse in person or have serious personality issues). About 50 percent of my right swipes matched with me, which was hopeful at first, but once I initiate a message, a meager 20 percent responded, and most of the responses were passive answers ( where the guy refuses to do any work and just wait for me to ask him questions or ask him out). And about 90 percent of these men usually stop responding to me within 2 days. On Hinge, I used to get at least 2/3 likes a day, but as soon as I turned 30, I started getting only 1 like a day at the most, and the quality is also much more worse than when I was 29.
OP
Correction. 3 out of 300 is only 1 percent success rate.
Ellen
Hug’s, and welcome to reality. Men want young, and we are no longer what we used to be. As a result, while men used to literaly follow me like bloodhounds looking for $ex, they now seem to be much more interested in looking past me to the new, fresh young women who have arrived into the city with their BA’s in literature or someting similar, just looking to snare the 30 something guys who have bank accounts, shares in the Hamtons, and substantial $exueal experience with 20 something womens who have now “aged out” (like you and me). So where does that leave us?
Dad says start looking for divorced men OVER 50 with older kids who do not want more kids and want you to share their kids when they get weekend custody, or someting similar. I am fighting this for now, as I am not even 40 yet! I may not be as fresh as I used to be, but I have remained single in the hope I would find a decent guy w/o all of that baggage (like the manageing partner’s neice who will be here this weekend).
I say you have more time. Just go out in person, even to Bar’s on 2nd and 3rd Avenue, and do NOT be afraid to make yourself available to the men, as my Grandma says they will just look past you if you are to coy. That does NOT mean you get to aggresive; just let them know you are available and find them “interesting”. Unless they are drunk, they will get your message, but make sure to be careful not to go to far initially. Just real them in slowly, Grandma Leyeh says, and I agree! YAY!!
Anonymous
I had the same experience of guys I matched with being someone I definitely wouldn’t have gone out with IRL. This summer I doubled down on trying to meet someone in person by accepting every social invite I could possibly attend and trying to meet lots of new people. It’s resulted in a few dates but no relationship so far.
On the 29 vs 30, I suspect a lot of guys look for a relationship with women 25-29 on the idea that they are probably interested in a serious relationship but won’t be pressuring them for marriage/kids right away. The steretype that women 30-35 are desperate to get married and have kids asap is strong. It sucks.
Anon
Yeah, honestly, if you just turned 29, I’d just leave age at 29 and claim you forgot to update. This might work up to 31. I wouldn’t go to the “these men are shallow and only want to date 20 yr olds” view as a lot of guys just default set an age bracket and in real life would really care if a woman was early 30s.
AnonInfinity
I wouldn’t do this because I’d be upset about a man who lied about his age in order to get me to override my preferences. I say this as a woman in her mid 30s who has run into exactly the same problem OP is talking about.
Is it Friday yet?
Except the apps automatically set your age by your date of birth, so you’d have to go and intentionally change your birth year (in Facebook, actually, I think). While you’re not wrong about the brackets being arbitrary, it doesn’t make deliberately lying about your age any less cruddy.
Anon
Yes, this is my experience as well. I have heard men complaining about how hard dating apps are because girls get so much male attention….maybe that’s true of like, 25 year old blonde skinny ponytails. Not me. The worst is when you match with someone on Bumble and then he immediately unmatches. Thanks dude. My married friends constantly harp about how I need to give online dating another chance and the perfect guy is out there blah blah…but I can’t even get a guy to carry on a conversation on these apps.
I hate the whole system, I truly hate it, but I don’t know how else to meet men these days.
Anonymous
SAME, are you me?
I’m 29, a bit taller than average (6′) but otherwise ok looking and in decent shape. My taken or married friends who have found SO’s on online dating are like well…have you /actually/ given it a chance? Do you /talk about interests?/ and I’m just like….well if they ever carried on a conversation and meaningfully talked back to me, maybe?
I’m also in law and not sure where to meet men otherwise. I have hobbies I enjoy which I don’t want to get rid of for the sake of finding hobbies with single men, but I might have to do that? I go to workout classes and such but the ones I happen to go to happen to be the ones with married people or women.
anon
Same. I’ve been doing online dating on and off since 2013 and it’s really changed since swipe apps. Now everyone has a profile now so you’ve got flakes, people who aren’t really dating, people who just want validation, people who aren’t active, people who just want pen pals, etc. Previously there was a higher proportion of people who were purposefully pursing relationships. I met a lot of great guys– obviously not the One– but really good guys that I had a lot in common with. The text style of communication itself leads to shallower and weaker conversations as well IMO. Bumble has been a wasteland for me with the same things you describe- bland responses and no effort from guys. I look young for my age and am fit, conventionally attractive so I don’t think that’s the big problem. I assume lots of men set their cut off at 30 or would just rather focus on the 25-29 year olds, or they’re just passively chatting but not really “searching.”
Anon
Do you think it’s worth it more for 30+ yr old women to do traditional dating sites that aren’t swipies like OKCupid to find a real relationship?
I will say I did get much higher quality dates when I was online dating by opening up the age group of the men upward significantly (ex. when I was 25, I initially had it at 23 to 28, then at 26 switched it from 25 to 38 and ended up meeting my spouse that is around 7 yrs older).
Is it Friday yet?
I’m mid-30s, and my best luck has been on OKCupid in terms of quality of matches and conversations – I had like a 6 month relationship last year with an OkCupid guy. Anecdotally, I have a late-30s guy friend who also prefers it, for the same reasons. But I’m on all of them, because who knows.
Anonymous
I met my husband on OkCupid after almost four years of pretty intense online dating (with a few breaks here and there). I didn’t like online dating, but I’m not a girl who walks into a bar and has guys flocking to me to get my number – so if I wanted to date, online dating was the vehicle. If I were the OP, I’d try switching up the sites used.
Anon
I’ve done the traditional dating sites (both eharmony and match) in my early 30s, and it was not worth the money. There were very few guys in my large east coast city, and it matched me with people 3-4 hours away that I wasn’t interested in. I think the problem is that guys in their 30s are (a) not actually looking for something serious, (b) want someone in their mid to late 20s so that their isn’t pressure to get married and have kids soon, (c) are just looking for validation, and (d) are single for a reason.
Maybe it’s just me, but I know a lot of interesting single women in their 30s but no interesting single men in their 30s.
Anon
I think that eharmony and match just have very small user bases, so they’re not worth it. Dating is a numbers game. Everyone I saw on those sites was also on the free ones like OkCupid.
anon
I’m anon at 9:24 and I’ve never done the other more traditional sites (match, e harmony..). Just OKC. I really wish OKC never switched to swipe style. If that still existed I’d be doing it. I really enjoyed the long, interesting conversations I had with guys that were basically like emails.
Anon
Here comes a similar vent about these apps. I’m experiencing the same frustrations on both of these apps. I’m early 30s and hadn’t thought about age being a factor since I’m trying to match with men who are my age or older, but now I think you’re totally right that it’s a factor. Now I’m even more discouraged. The lack of responsiveness on these apps might be the worst part. I’ve had the same experience that I’ll match with someone, message them, and get no response. When people do respond, half the time I feel like they don’t know how to have a basic conversation. Like, he has to end his message to me with a question, otherwise it’s really hard to keep a conversation going. Also, why do so many guys post terrible pictures of themselves – do they not see that the photo is blurry, they aren’t smiling at all, that photos taken at an upward angle from the camera on your computer are really unflattering… I’m close to giving up on the apps, but I haven’t been able to come up with any ways to meet men in person. How do people do this? It sounds easy to “get out and meet more men to increase your odds” but where do I actually go to do this? Signed, Similarly Frustrated.
Mpls
I’m at the other end of the 30s spectrum, and…it doesn’t really get better (sorry :( )
I’ve been on Match for a while (coming to the end of a 6 mth subscription) and downloaded Bumble at the beginning of the month. Match has been a wasteland of contact (lots of likes, but not messaging, even when I initiate). But that’s a case where a lot of people have the free app (so can “like” you), but you have to pay to message. And Match isn’t good about telling you what category the people you see are.
Bumble…I ended up deleting it after about 2 weeks. I mostly only got unmatched when I didn’t immediately produce a full length photo when asked so that they could assess if I had the appropriate body type for them to talk to me like a human (or something). But there were a lot of non-responders.
NOLA
Well, I’m over 50 and on Match and OKCupid. OKcupid, in my age range, has been really hit or miss. I’ve had a couple of interesting dates. One guy was *very* interested until after our first date, then not (okay with me because absolutely no spark and awkward end to the date). A lot of scammers on OKC because it’s free. Thankfully, I’ve gotten to where I can spot them a mile a way. I just reupped on Match (2nd 6 months) because a) fewer scammers, b) more people my age that I may actually be interested in, in my area, and c) they offered me a half price deal. That said, I’m getting really tired of going on dates with awkward guys or guys who drink too much because they’re nervous. My level of education is sometimes difficult, as well. It’s weird out there…
Anonymous
I mean men are trash but also your profile should always have one full length pic.
Anonymous
This. I’m not matching with a guy who doesn’t have a full length pic so I understand why he’d expect the same.
Mpls
Yeah – and I get that. But then…don’t match. If it’s that much of a dealbreaker, just swipe left, dude. I’m okay losing the swipe because I don’t have it.
It’s the part where they match, then ask, as if they are entitled to have it before proceeding.
Anonymous
It’s baffling to me why you would deliberately shoot yourself in the foot like this.
Anon
Entitled? No. Is it reasonable for them to see if they would be potentially attracted to your body type before investing more time in talking to you? Absolutely. I’m a woman and am not attracted to very very thin men or very very large men. I’d be very upset if a guy with a big head and stick figure showed up on a date because he didn’t have a full length body photo after refusing to provide one. It wastes both people’s time. I’m sorry, I’m sure you’re smart and have a great personality, but no one cares until they’ve gotten passed the first “could I be potentially attracted to this person” hurdle first. The insistence of anger at being asked for a full length pic is probably more telling on singledom than anything.
Anonymous
Agree with anon at 11:47
It’s not just shallow guys thinking ‘no fatties’ – I had an ED in my 20s and I would exclude matches with men who are very thin because having a guy be smaller than me is triggering.
Anon
I agree. I get matched and dates often but I’m in my early 30’s and have the body of a 22 year old. I show a close up of my face and my full body. I think I’m a relationship there needs to be a certain level of attraction. Men shouldn’t expect supermodels, but I’m not dating someone I’m not attracted to. If he doesn’t have a full body photo, I’m not swiping right.
Anonymous
I don’t understand people who ask for pictures on these apps. The pictures I wanted to share are posted on the app. If you don’t like them, swipe left. Frankly I assume they must be some kind of scammer. Idk what they want my pictures for but no I’m absolutely not sending them.
Anon
I hear you but unfortunately I think the full length body pic is a must have at this point. Too many people who’ve been burned. I would just provide one when asked or post it on your profile.
Anon
I don’t know where you’re located, but those may not be the best apps in your area. I know of several men who are on Bumble for the ego boost, since it requires no effort on their part – for that reason, it wasn’t my favorite.
And yeah, the difference in matches I got in the weeks before and after my 35th bday were striking. Take some time off the apps if you need to. Hop back on when you’ve cleared your mind a bit. (FWIW, I met my husband on Tinder at 35.)
Anonymous
My strategy has been to try to meet the guy pretty quickly. If 2-3 days go by and I’m not setting up a date, ignore/unmatch. I ask the guy out like… 90% of the time (I’m not tracking it, this is just my guesstimate). I haven’t used Hinge but I’ve used Bumble, OKC, and Tinder. I think there’s an expectation on Bumble that the woman will take a more active role in initiating things, so that’s worked out best for me. I’ve dated 4 promising guys over 2 years on Bumble – one for 6 months, two for 4 months each, and one currently a month in and we just agreed to deactivate our apps. I’m 35. It’s a slog, for sure. I basically treat it like a part time job. Hang in there, take breaks when you need to, and guard your feelings really well.
January
+1. I happened to meet my boyfriend on Match when I was 34 after deciding to try something in addition to the apps. I hadn’t liked Match when I’d tried it a few years ago and had met two duds off Match before my boyfriend, so I’m still ambivalent about recommending it as an alternative to the apps. But we wouldn’t have met otherwise – he wasn’t into the apps.
I definitely agree with the advice to treat it like a part-time job and to take an active role managing the process.
And don’t be afraid to seek feedback on your profile! I think a really good profile can make a difference in the quality of your matches.
Is it Friday yet?
Dating and the apps are currently the largest source of stress in my life. It. Just. Sucks.
anon
Same, sadly. Honestly I just want to give up.
Anonymous
So could you just stop? I honestly feel like sometimes the harder I try to make something happen the more likely it is not to happen. That has been true with relationships, career, friendships, fitness goals, etc. Every time I’ve intensely directed my energy in one direction and had things not work out, as soon as I say “f-it” and move on to something else, it seems like whatever I was trying to make happen, happens.
I also don’t believe in continuing to do something that is not only not working, it’s actively making me miserable.
anon
I have stopped. Haven’t gone on a date in a year and a half. (Well, that’s not entirely true, I went on one set up by a friend, but that didn’t go anywhere.) My life doesn’t put me in contact with single men organically anymore. Or at least, it certainly hasn’t in the last couple of years. So I’ve stopped trying/expecting it… when does that adage come true? I guess the only reason I haven’t technically “given up” yet is that I still think I’ll try to date again some day.
Is it Friday yet?
“It’ll happen when you least expect it” is on par with “Everything happens for a reason” for making me want to stab the sayer in the face. I spent my 20s concentrating on hobbies and school, and not expecting it or working in any way to make it happen and – guess what – it didn’t happen anyway! But thanks for the non-advice, cool story bro.
OP
It seems like a quality dating app should ban users who do not reply after this occurs say ten matches in a row. I would pay extra for an app that does this to weed out the non serious people.
Is it Friday yet?
Bumble, for one, never actually removes profiles unless you intentionally delete, so there are *lots* of non-active users. Like, my friend’s ex-bf sent me a FB message to tell me he swiped right on me on Bumble, at a time when I wasn’t actively dating and definitely hadn’t logged in to the app in like a year – it wasn’t even installed on my phone because I hadn’t bothered redownloading when I’d gotten a new phone like six months prior. I’ve also run into a guy friend who was engaged and definitely wasn’t using the app (and the profile information was clearly two years out of date, so it clearly wasn’t an attempt to cheat). So like, even more frustrating. :(
OP
It seems like these dating apps are not incentivized in actually matching people up. They are incentivized in having as large of a pool as possible do they can tell their investors, look, we’re doing well! There is no meaningful to track their performance.
Is it Friday yet?
The cynical part of me thinks that they’re incentivized to keep people using the app, because if you actually meet someone and delete, they lose the ad revenue/subscription fees. (As an aside, the ads I’ve been seeing on OkCupid are so weirdly NOT targeted at me – like for a new career as a hairstylist at Supercuts, or for food stamp programs. I’m an attorney with an income that decidedly puts me out of food stamp qualifying range so, no?)
Anon
Try a more serious app. Obviously Bumble and Tinder are likely to have people who are just looking to casually date rather than look for a relationship. Try something like eharmony. Honestly if I was serious about finding a boyfriend or husband I’d pay for a matchmaker.
Anon
eharmony and matchmakers don’t work because none of the men are there. Going somewhere with no men isn’t going to help me find a husband
Anonymous
There’s an entrepreneurial idea for someone with programming skills. I’m totally serious.
Anon
This is a really pretty blouse on the model, but the comments on the link lead to believe it won’t work for those of us beyond an A cup.
Anonymous
Love this top in the yellow. Pink and navy prins are way less cute. It has a summery vibe but also transitions well to fall.
Anon
Love it too!
ClothesforKenya
Thanks to everyone who gave me suggestions on safari companies for a trip to Africa next month. Now, I’m looking for the right clothing for a week long photo safari through Kenya. I know no black and white (attracts bugs), but should I invest in any special safari clothing/gear? We are mostly staying at lodges and “luxury” tented camps, and our guide provides binoculars.
Cat
I just talked about this with friends that are going. Because of the tight weight limits on luggage (are you flying around in those tiny planes?) you’ll want versatile lightweight layers. They’re not planning on any cargo vest or other “central casting safari extra” gear as opposed to, say, a lot of Lulu that can be mixed and matched.
If you want some (perhaps over-the-top, as the latter bought Ralph Lauren leather pants for safari…) inspiration, two bloggers I follow, Stacie Flinner and Mackenzie Horan, did luxe trips to Africa in the last year or two.
Sarabeth
If you have linen, take that. If you think you’d wear it again afterwards, maybe buy a linen tunic or two. Otherwise, you can probably do fine with stuff you already own. In general, you want lightweight stuff that covers as much of you as possible – the sun is not kidding around, and it will be easier for insect management as well.
No gear, other than a camera.
Anon
I just brought my normal hiking clothing, as did 90% of the people I saw. Hiking pants, athletic t-shirts and long shelve shorts, and a fleece coat. There isn’t a need to buy a brand new wardrobe. (If you want to buy a brand new wardrobe, you do you. But it’s not needed.)
Gail the Goldfish
Also no dark blue (attracts tsetse flies, and those hurt. Reactions may vary. Husband was ok. I had welts for a week from the bites. Usually we’re the opposite with insect bites). I don’t think you need to buy anything in particular, especially if you already own clothes for hiking. Key is lightweight, easy dry fabrics. If you are taking any tiny planes, the weight limit is small enough you’ll have to get laundry done at least once, and in all likelihood it will be line dry, so you want things that will dry before you have to repack and move to the next place. Linen is good. I took hiking pants and linen pants. Most useful thing was a very lightweight long-sleeve hiking shirt, which I did actually buy for the trip, that proved invaluable for insect protection. Take a hat, because you will want sun protection. I managed to sit on and break my sunglasses in the first day because I kept having to take them off to take pictures with my camera. And do take a real camera with a good zoom, not just your cellphone.
Gail the Goldfish
Also, if you pack shorts, don’t pack more than one pair. You probably won’t need them.
Anonymous
We were in South Africa, so the weather in Kenya May be different, but it was really chilly on the safari rides at dawn, so we needed layers. Brought lots of drab colours. When we flew to Zimbabwe, the plane couldn’t take any luggage because of bringing double the airline fuel to get the plane back. Wish I had packed my carryon differently for that leg of the trip! Enjoy — was one of my favourite trips.
Anonymous
I agree with bringing normal hiking gear. We did a luxe safari earlier this year. I brought all of these cute safari-type outfits, but ended up wearing leggings and comfy tops (sweaters, t shirts, etc.) and sneakers on most of the game drives. You get up REALLY early for the morning drives and so we didnt have a ton of time to get ready in the morning – I just threw on comfortable clothes and went.
Cb
Converse alternatives? I buy classic low-top Converse in a fun color every year and wear them as weekend and commuting shoes until they fall apart but maybe I should mix it up? Something comfortable, washable, none of those ridiculous 90s sneakers.
Anon
I like SuperGa. I am currently commuting, though, in Yosi Samra foldable flats and I love them. What about Rothy’s if you are looking for washable?
Cb
I walk a lot on cobbled streets so probably need more structure than flats, although those look great. Superga look fun.
NYCer
I love my Supergas. I have never tried washing them though.
Anonymous
I got a pair of Onitsuka Tigers a couple years ago. I think they had their big moment about five years ago but they’re very classic looking, comfortable, and come in a variety of colors.
Cat
Not washable bc they’re leather, but the Cole Haan Grandpros are light as air and would have room for a small insert if needed.
Anonymous
Not so much washable, but very comfortable and great for weekend wear: Onitsuka Tigers.
Tessa Karlov
Allbirds!
anon
If you like the look of converse, check out the Keen elsa sneakers. I have a pair from a few years ago (5ish I think?) that are just now starting to get a hole in the canvas. I think they are more comfortable than converse.
H13
Also try Bensimons.
Anon
Onitsuka Tigers
Biglaw Lateral
For the Biglaw attorneys who lateraled to another Biglaw firm, did you join the lockstep system or were you offered a raise on your current salary or signing bonus? Can you disclose how much of a raise or how big a bonus it was, and what the justification was?
For context, I’m a 7th year transactional associate being recruited by a slightly lower-tier and smaller law firm (still Biglaw). No equity partnership prospects at current firm or the new one (not just for me but for most people). I’m not a rainmaker by any measure and not too interested in that route anyway. Only thing that would tempt me to move is a significantly bigger comp package (work will be grueling in both places, regularly 250+ monthly at current firm). Curious too whether the practice depends on the geographical market. TIA!
Biglaw Lateral
Oh and slightly higher chance of being pushed out at the smaller firm that’s doing the recruiting after 3 years (they have more ups and downs in the volume of business and will not hesitate to push people out, but will usually guarantee laterals 3 years of employment).
At my current firm people stick around forever (without pay raises – and sometimes with pay cuts – after the 9th year or so), as long as they are billing enough hours. Admittedly, most women attorneys leave by that point because of marginalization in the firm politics and poor lifestyle.
Anon
Um…what are the upsides to this move again? Nothing you said sounds good. Smaller, lower prestige, up and down practice, up and out model whereas at current place you can float at the same (let’s be honest very large) salary for a long time. I very much doubt the smaller firm will give you more money with a smaller size and up and down business.
I did lateral to a smaller but also still big law firm and just came in at the salary given my associate year level, hours expectation prorated. No signing bonus – but my market wasn’t desperate for associates at my level so ymmv.
Cat
Signing bonus yes (to make up for the forgone bonus from firm #1) but the negotiation was over what year you would come in at, not the salary for your year. If laterals had the opportunity to make more money than “homegrown” associates of their same year, there would be chaos.
What is your long term goal? If it’s going in-house, don’t underestimate the marketing power of your current firm’s name. If you leave as a 7th year for another firm and THEN try to go in-house, it will look like you were pushed out, tried again, were pushed out again, and are going in-house as a fallback.
The original Scarlett
This.
Biglaw Lateral
Thanks for the replies. There are admittedly very few upsides, other than escaping the “terrible known” that will be the current firm in a few years (for me) — starting year 10, lots and lots and lots of politics, harping on about origination even though no partnership is on offer and you don’t keep any of the origination, women getting effectively getting pushed out by heavy but low-profile/daily-grind/unprofitable/unappreciated workloads. There are a couple of owners, but no other partners at current firm — so you can always get pushed out if any of the powers that be don’t like you or the senior person you work with, but people mostly try to keep a low profile and tend to “coast” (if you count working 2500+ hours and still getting bashed regularly for not bringing in enough clients “coasting”).
People usually stick around my current firm because it pays $20k more than the other Biglaw for my (admittedly small) market, which firms do not match each other (WAY too many qualified law graduates) so it’s still better pay than alternatives. Also, it is a well known fact that there are no partnership prospects anywhere in Biglaw in my small market (trying not to out myself).
However, several people have recently moved from my firm to the smaller firm in search of more autonomy and admittedly better pay — word on the street is that they came into some money and are trying to expand their business/poach talents and business, and have aggresively recruited a few people better base compensation than market + sharing origination profit. All the people who moved had at least 10+ years of experience or very senior people, though. They aren’t laying their cards re compensation on the table for me, so I was looking for some idea of different markets.
Re Cat’s question — I don’t have an idea of what I want long term (yes I realize it’s a problem), except I’m not particularly interested in partnership or business origination, at least in my current firm’s structure. It is a step down in prestige outside the market, although it’s not a huge step down within it (as in I can still probably get an in-house gig later on with the smaller firm on my resume, as I have in-demand multiple language skills). Slight upside is that the smaller firm also is a team environment (so dedicated associates to project matters), whereas my firm has a talent pool system and you are expected to work on whatever matter is assigned to you.
There are a handful of other comparable Biglaw firms in the but situation is mostly the same re partnership and workload, but without the comp package — I understand it’s a completely different setting than the bigger markets like NYC, but still wondered about standard practice.
Biglaw Lateral
Ugh, sorry for the broken sentences, on my phone.
Anon
It seems kind of short-sighted to move for an extra $20k a year when you think you would then be pushed out 3 years later. But you do you.
Anyways, to answer your question, in large markets, biglaw pays the biglaw market salary. If you lateral, you get market pay for the year associate you come in as (many people take a cut in years, such as going from a 4 to a 3 year) and sometimes a signing bonus to make up for any bonus you left on the table at your old firm by leaving. This has, based on friends, been their experience in all large markets (i.e. LA, NY, Chi, DC, ect.)
Anonymous
Why would you do this to yourself? In my market (Northern California) there’s so much demand for good corporate associates. There are great firms with partnership prospects and decent lifestyle that would be begging for you. Don’t sell yourself short.
busybee
Is my blue Ralph Lauren polo shirt dress hopelessly out of date? You know the kind I’m taking about- a polo shirt in dress form. Is it a classic that will always be ok to wear, or should I have retired it years ago?
Cat
I am ALL OVER today but… my vote is it’s a classic. Wear it with cute sneakers or Birks for a more modern look. The same look with flip flops would admittedly read ~10 years ago to me.
anon
Keep your shoes and accessories current, and it’s still workable. That’s one of those classic styles that’s common enough that it’s never really *out.* To me, a polo dress is quintessentially summer wear.
Anonymous
Thanks guys- good tips on the shoes; will make the effort to not default to my trusty Rainbows.
Anon
I’m going to be the voice of dissent and say yes, very dated. I can remember that trend starting to become stale in the beginning of college…in 2005. I think you can pull it off only if you’re styling it in the preppiest way possible in fairly preppy circumstances, but as average streetwear, no.
anne-on
Ha, I 100% see these dresses all the time…in our preppy New England town and surrounding areas…worn with boat shoes and/or jack rodgers. The beauty of preppy as a style is that it rarely changes too much ;)
Anon
Who cares? If you feel good in it then wear it!
Anon
This is a fashion blog. People are here because they care.
Anon
I’ve been bike commuting on a pretty old hand me down mountain bike, but it feels pretty slow. I’m wondering if I’m likely to notice a difference in baseline speed if I buy a road bike. Does anyone who rides both mountain bikes and road bikes on the pavement notice any significant differences in speed and resistance? Trying to decide if it’s worth it to buy another bike and if the difference is minuscule, it probably isn’t.
Cat
I upgraded from a heavy hybrid bike to a light road bike (like a $500 bike, not a $2000 one). Between the lighter weight and the larger wheels (26″ rather than 24″ on my old one), it is a huge difference. For example, starting up again from a dead stop at a light takes virtually no energy. Go to a bike shop and try a few!
Anon
Yes, I only commute on my road bike! I can keep up with traffic on it, whereas on the MTB, I’m getting passed by cars, a lot of whom are cut it way too close for comfort, or am forced to the sidewalk. My city is not the most bike-friendly in the world (not the worst, but plenty of room for improvement), so being able to take the lane without provoking an angry response (a few people get pissed at the existence of a cyclist even if I’m not slowing them down at all, but they’re a small minority) really ups my comfort level.
You do have to be more alert for debris/potholes on a road bike, but that’s never been an issue for me; ie, I’ve never gotten a flat or wrecked because of it.
pugsnbourbon
The difference between my wife’s lightweight, zippy road bike and my hybrid is night and day. I agree with Cat that a visit to a good bike shop is in order.
Minnie Beebe
You could start with swapping out the knobby tires for slick tires (if you haven’t already done so) and also replacing the cassette (the gear cluster on the rear wheel) for a smaller, more road-like range. That might be enough. I prefer to commute on a bike with a straight handlebar instead of road drop bars, as the flat bar (generally) leads to a more upright posture, which I find better for visibility around traffic.
Cost of the aforementioned changes depends greatly on how many gears you need in the back, but assuming you’re not riding a 1×11 drivetrain on a commuter MTB, it shouldn’t cost too much.
cbackson
Yes, the difference will be real and noticeable. To give you a sense, my hardtail (front suspension only) MTB is 26 lb and my road bike is 16 lb (note that these are both performance bikes, so on the lighter end). So there’s a real and measurable gain when you move to a lighter bike. Virtually any road bike will be lighter, because there’s no suspension. And the smoother, narrower tires will very significantly decrease rolling resistance over MTB tires. Frankly, even a newer hybrid bike would probably be significantly faster.
What kind of bike is right for you really depends on how long your commute is and whether you want to commute in normal clothes. If you’re going to be on a drop-bar road bike, unless it’s a really short commute, you’ll probably need to wear bike shorts because the position puts more pressure on your undercarriage and the padding is helpful. If you get a road bike, go for aluminum (don’t be talked into carbon, you don’t need it) and make sure you have clearance for wider tires (I’d recommend 35mm for commuting).
I’m an avid cyclist, but when I’m running errands/going to the grocery store, I actually ride an old hybrid. Mine is ancient and heavy (it’s steel) but Trek makes some great newer ones. I’d consider one of those – it will still be much faster than an MTB, but more comfortable to ride with normal clothes. That said, if your commute is long, a true road bike will be much faster.
Either way, my #1 recommendation is to get front and rear lights and run them all the time, even in the daytime. There’s good research on the degree to which lights improve visibility (unlike reflective clothing, which isn’t demonstrated to help that much). I like the Bontrager Flare/Ion set – it’s expensive but tested to maximize visibility in the daytime.
Anonymous
Lots of difference IMO. I don’t commute to work on my bike (I do the school dropoff and my kid is way too big to put on the back of my bike at 5’9″) but my husband and I ride every weekend, combo of either off-road trails or paved trails near our house. I was using my mountain bike to on the paved trail but I can go so much faster on the road bike. Less tire-to-ground contact, or something. My mountain bike is also heavier than my road bike. I don’t have drop bars on my road bike and prefer it that way.
We buy all our bikes on Craigslist. It takes patience to wait for the right thing but we’ve gotten some incredible deals (my husband is currently riding a Santa Cruz that was, according to the seller, over $4k new and we got it for $800; it needed some minor work my husband completed in less than a day). A good bike shop is worth visiting to see what’s out there, but all the “boutique” shops in our area are crazy expensive; we only use them for repairs/maintenance or upgrades we can’t do ourselves. Unless you really know what you’re doing I wouldn’t buy a bike on the Internet. Fit is everything and too many people I know have bought a bike on the Internet that doesn’t work, but it’s too much hassle to return it, and so the bike sits in the garage.
Ribena
I ride a European style city/ upright bike with slim tyres and I love it. I can see around me a lot more than when I had a more aggressive road bike and drivers seem to see me as more of a human because they can see my face. It has great geometry so it feels like incredibly light work to go pretty fast.
GCG
Yes! Mountain bike tires are usually wider and have more grip so the resistance you feel is much greater than with a road bike. I am an avid biker (both MTB and road) and notice a huge difference. I will never ride my MTB on the road for any duration unless it is to/from an MTB trail or if I’m going to be on a gravel road or in slippery (icy or slushy) conditions.
Anon
I’m in the mood to bake this weekend. What are your favorite cookie recipes?
anon
The snickerdoodle cookies from the Sally’s Baking Addiction blog. Joanna Gaines’ chocolate chip recipe from the Magnolia cookbook.
Skipper
This is very old fashioned, but the Betty Crocker recipe for brown sugar crackle cookies is my absolute favorite. They’re like very good sugar cookies but with a more interesting flavor.
Anon
Link?
Skipper
https://www.bettycrocker.com/recipes/brown-sugar-crackle-cookies/963ec861-7adc-4859-bfdb-ea48f649668c
Anon
Anything from Sally’s Baking Addiction. She has the best cookie recipes.
anon
I’ve learned so much from her! She goes into a lot of detail about why she chooses certain ratios of ingredients, depending on the result she’s trying to get (crispy vs. chewy vs. soft).
Anonymous
She also copies directly from Cook’s Illustrated and other more professional bakers but takes credit as if her experimentation and knowledge were her own. Take a look at the comments – when she’s asked to troubleshoot a recipe issue, she’s unable to do so because she doesn’t actually understand the chemistry behind her recipes unless the publication she copied from provides an explanation. Her pictures are pretty but I can’t support “bakers” like her.
Anon
Allegations like that float around about pretty much every major food blogger. I don’t think Sally is a professionally-trained pastry chef (not does she claim to be) but she’s clearly very hard-working, she seems very nice, and 98% of her recipes have been home runs for me, which I can’t say about anyone else.
Anon
Oh my goodness, Laura Bush’s Texas Governor’s Mansion cookies. Add extra cinnamon. SO GOOD. People go nuts for them.
https://www.southernliving.com/recipes/cowboy-cookies-recipe
anon
DO WANT. Now I know what I’m making this weekend.
Eliza
While the cookies sound great, that article is…not good. Did Family Circle ask for Bill Clinton’s cookie recipe when HRC was running?
Anon
Yes, they did.
anon
I’m sorry, what’s wrong with the article? It seemed to be stating the facts to me. Is it the fact that the wives share recipes and have a bake-off, rather than the article itself?
iced coffee
Do you think you could omit the coconut and still have them turn out okay?
Anon
I’ve done that for people who are allergic. They’re still good. (I think just not as all-out amazing, but still very good.)
Anne
America’s Test Kitchen Perfect Chocolate Chip Cookies
MagicUnicorn
Chocolate pistachio shortbread cookies from How Sweet Eats are current hits at my house. Bonus that it makes enough dough to bake some now and freeze some for baking later.
https://www.howsweeteats.com/2018/12/chocolate-pistachio-shortbread/
NOLA
My all-time favorite cookies are the original M&M party cookies recipe (from the 60s):
https://www.justapinch.com/recipes/dessert/cookies/the-original-m-m-cookies-recipe.html
It has more brown sugar and more vanilla than the average chocolate chip cookie.
anon
Not quite what you asked, but it’s chocolate zuchini bread season! Im planning to hit my freind up for her recipe, so I can’t link, though.
NOLA
I just came across a lemon zucchini cake recipe that looked absolutely delicious. Need to try it!
Vicky Austin
These are kind of fallish, but I love them any time of year:
https://bakerbynature.com/thick-chewy-white-chocolate-cranberry-cookies/
Anemone
I make these, but my recipe is different (very fussy and does NOT double) so I may give this version a try.
I like to make a summer version by taking out the chocolate and subbing in a second dried fruit, like blueberries.
Anon
Alton Brown’s chocolate chip cookies #10 (the ones where you melt the butter and use the muffin method)
The brownies from the baker’s chocolate label.
Anonymous
https://www.ambitiouskitchen.com/nutella-stuffed-brown-butter-sea-salt-chocolate-chip-cookies-my-favorite-cookie-ever/
So. good. Do put the nutella in the fridge for a while first–makes it much easier to work with. Also, I am a fan of iced sugar cookies, though they’re more work. My recipe for that is:
Cookies:
1 cup butter, softened (NOT melted)
2/3 cup sugar
2 egg yolks
1 tsp salt
1 tsp vanilla extract
1 tsp almond extract
2 1/2 cups all purpose flour
Cream butter and sugar at medium speed with electric mixer until light and fluffy. Add egg yolks and flavorings, beating well. Beat in flour and salt. Divide dough in half, shape each into a disc, wrap in plastic and refrigerate at least 1 hour.
Preheat oven to 350 degrees F. Lightly grease cookie sheet (Or use parchment). Sift confectioner’s sugar over work surface. Remove disc from fridge, warm to pliable. Roll to about 1/8 inch thickness. Cutout cookies and place on parchment. Bake 10-12 minutes, until lightly brown around the edges (and just the edges. Otherwise they will burn. This cooking time is really for a lighter cookie sheet. If you’re using a darker metal, they cook a minute or two faster). Cool on racks.
Icing:
1 cup confectioner’s sugar
2 tsp milk
2 tsp corn syrup
1/4 tsp almond extract
Combine and mix until smooth. That’s your base icing proportions. I usually need to triple it or so to get enough to cover all the cookies. Add milk until it’s the consistency you want for icing. I aim for honey-like consistency and then pour over cookies on a cooling rack on top of a baking sheet with sides so you can scrape up the icing that flows off and use to cover more cookies (this is not the best explanation, but hopefully it makes sense)
Anonymous
Can we talk about the pros and cons of being a non-equity partner?
I’m in a bit of an odd situation. I work in small law. Less than 10 attorneys. There is one partner. The rest of us are all very experienced attorneys. We earn a salary with a pretty generous bonus structure. The firm gets its business from a variety of sources such that it isn’t very important for any individual attorney to have origination, though I’m still striving to improve my origination. The firm treats us all as attorneys as opposed to partner/associate. We typically run our own caseload after the case is assigned. We can check in with the partner if we need advice but we are doing almost everything ourselves. None of the other older attorneys seem to care about their titles.
I’m one of the youngest here and just reaching my 10 years of practice, the majority at this firm. My peers are making partner places and asking me if I’m going to make partner here. I usually just explain that we don’t have that kind of structure here. In my marketing efforts, I’ve had a few people ask if I was a partner and I usually explain the same thing.
I mentioned to my boss that our lack of partnership structure may impede my marketing efforts as a few people seemed concerned I wasn’t partner. I suspect it’s less of an issue with the older attorneys because people just assume they are partners. I don’t know.
Boss doesn’t seem interested in anyone being equity partner at this time. He talked about possibly just naming me partner with no change in compensation if the title is important to me. So essentially, non equity partner. I have no idea what non-equity partner looks like at other firms. The reason for no change in comp is because I essentially get a base plus percentage of receivables that is generous regardless of title. There is also a politics issue because no one else has cared to date but if he starts handing out new titles, people may start to care.
I’m giving you the whole background in case it’s relevant to your advice but my main question is at firms with a traditional partnership structure, what benefits do you get when you become non-equity partner. Conversely, what issues are there too?
Anonymous
Do you want to put in enough cash to buy him out of his equity? You’re casually floating this like he’s gonna just give it away, not suggesting you buy into his business.
Anon
I’m asking about non-equity partner. He’s not interested in me (or anyone) buying in as equity partner right now. And yes, I was prepared to buy in. I said that above. Since he’s not interested in that, I want to know what the deal is for non-equity partners.
Anon
Sorry, I realize now I didn’t address our conversations of buying in above. I tried to keep my post short and had wrote it in at first and then took it back out.
Anon
I think your situation is unique to small “one big boss” firms that are actually very common. There are a ton of firms set up just the way yours is so I don’t think non-equity partner comparison to firms where there are multiple tiers of attorney and varying levels of benefits based on those tiers is useful.
If it helps, what I’ve seen for many law firms is that the equity partner is labeled “Shareholder” or “Shareholding Partner” and the other attorneys (usually 12 or fewer attorneys total) are just “Partners” – so it is a firm of partners, often with a random associate or two. As non-equity partner in a firm like this, you’re an employee. You don’t get to make decisions and have benefits of an owner unless the owner decides to give you those rights. Honestly I’d just take the title and convince him to assign everyone above X number of years experience with that title to help your marketing efforts and decrease potential friction.
Anonymous
Benefits of being a non-equity partner = saying you’re a partner. Full stop. There is no other benefit, particularly in your situation. What you describe is a one owner shop with lots of other people who are akin to associates (i.e., just employees). What do the older attorneys there call themselves? Can you just adopt that title too? (Or if they just call themselves “attorney” and that’s it, then I would either let it go because nothing is changing (sorry but true), or find a new job.)
Anon
This is all very helpful. The other older folks just call themselves attorney. I was starting to feel some embarrassment at not having a partnership track but I also felt that this is just how it is in firms like mine. I feel better telling that to people that ask now. I wanted to make sure I wasn’t getting screwed if he did offer me a title change with no extra money/benefit. I also see how it would be politically complex giving it to me and not others and why he might not be interested in giving it to everyone.
I definitely like what I’m doing and I’m glad I don’t have the up or out pressure of many of my peers. Thanks for the help everyone!
Anon
In my view, the benefits to non-equity partnership in biglaw are the firm signaling that it thinks you could potentially become an equity partner (i.e., not everyone makes it) and the title of partner helps with business development. Most people make less as a non-equity partner than they did as a senior associate
Anon
Non-equity partner means different things at different firms. At my Biglaw firm it means straight salary, no compensation based on points (e.g., no share of profits). The salary is negotiated, not generally lockstep. Equity at our firm can mean anything from all-points income to part-points and part-salary with a range of different proportions. Is your question about how the pay and benefits differ, or the image? For benefits, as a non-equity partner you’re basically an employee, get a W-2 instead of a K-1, may not be able to participate in all retirement plans depending on what your firm has, etc. You’ll probably make less money but don’t share the down-side risk of the firm having a bad year. For image, we have a closed comp system and no one really knows who is equity and who is non-equity unless someone tells you (and people shade the truth in a closed system). Outside the firm, not only does no one know, no one cares as everyone has the title partner.
Anonymous
I’m a non-equity partner at a firm a bit bigger than yours. The partner designation was important to me for marketing purposes. Our comp structure is pretty transparent- non-equity gets x% of their collections, equity gets x% of their collections plus a cut of profits at the end of the year. All partners also get y% of origination. Only equity get a vote on management decisions. I haven’t been here long enough to see how this all plays out. One immediate downside is that I am not a W-2 employee so I’m not eligible for firm contributions for benefits and I’m responsible for my own tax withholdings. Also, while I get a monthly advance, it’s far lower than what I got as a straight salaried + bonus atty (the idea being that my income potential is far greater)
Anonymous
My previous small law firm was similar, initially 3 equity partners and s bunch of associates, then made one very experienced person non equity partner, then years later a bunch of others. In that firm you got the title, a small raise (but then no more raises, unlike associates who were lockstep), and an increasing role in managing the work of associates, marketing, public speaking, etc.
Anon
Are you planning on leaving or do you just want the prestige of the title?
Anon
I can’t figure out what I want right now to be honest. I want to make sure I’m not getting screwed. I was getting a little prestige envy from no title and no raise for awhile but the reality is, I was probably overpaid the last few years which explains why I’m not getting a raise in my base. I see people who were my interns now working at bigger firms and I know they are probably making more money than me with a lot less experience. I have to remember that I made conscious choices to not work at big firms.
Random poster
Funny story.
A year ago a woman from a program my husband took our kid to made friends with him. I didn’t think anything of if. Anyway it turned out she was in my field and our kids were similar aged. I was busy and still didn’t care much since we didn’t have anything else in common and I was pretty busy.
One day she very suddenly quit her practicum and told us a bunch of very negative reasons why she had to quit (sexual harassment, fraud, theft, overbiling of clients, that she basically ran the firm, bullying etc). We were really shocked that she had just quit because we live in a small centre but understood when she told us the many many problems. Anyway I felt a bit like she was trying to manipulate me at that point and told her point blank that I didn’t need anyone for a practicum but we could ask our contacts and such for her.
Three months later she hadn’t found a practicum. She had formally reported some of her complaints to our overseeing board and they were doing a long investigation.
She called me (to be clear she wasn’t my friend and was at best my husbands friend) and basically told me she was completely broke and if she didn’t finish her practicum she wouldn’t be able to work in our field. She was very clear she had to work for pay. I relented, talked to my partners and hired her. We didn’t pay her a great wage but we paid her what she earned at the last place.
She didn’t show up to her first day of work. There was unending drama with her child being sick, child being kicked out of daycare (for the moms behaviour not the child) and conflict with staff until finally she just didn’t come into work and did projects from one of the staff from home. She badmouthed our group to everyone about how we exploited her as a single mother etc. She didn’t even show up to her last day of work.
It’s been a few years and she runs her practice from home. I don’t know what exactly happened with her complaint but it sounds like the other person went through a long examination and investigation and was found to have done nothing wrong.
Anyway she has now hired a free practicum student. I wish I could tell everyone because she has spent years telling everyone that I am a horrible person who exploited her for hiring her at the low end of the going rate in town. But I can’t do I’m telling the rest of you. :)
Winter
That is simply rotten. Sorry you had to go through that.
Anon
She sounds ….difficult. After a while, especially in small markets, the thing speaks for itself. Everyone who has run across her will realize there’s something off about her. I realize this is small comfort if you feel she has trashed your reputation, but people will figure it out.
Anon
Yes, this. So sorry you had to go through this. Her reputation probably speaks for itself and people have most likely figured out that she is the rotten one.
Senior Attorney
Ugh. In similar situations, one of my former law partners used to say “Well, it sucks but they still have to be them and we still get to be us. So there’s that, at least.”
anonshmanon
I like that perspective a lot.
Anonymous
Yeah. My work people gave me a lot of side eye for hiring her. I gave my husband a lot of grief for introducing us.
I literally can tell no one because no one will discuss her, particularly after her complaint about her one boss (because I don’t care how garbage a complaint is, no one wants to deal with it). No one will refer her work or really even talk to her anymore.
She really was the worst. TBH I think she made it harder for women as a group to get employed where I live since her sexual harassment complaint took literally months to resolve.
And yeah, I pity both the kid and the free intern.
Anonymous
Sounds like she is crazy. Poor kid (her kid).
ISO Weekend bag
Happy Friday, all. I am in search of a small-medium weekend bag for hair and makeup as a gift for my mom’s birthday. I have noticed when she comes to my house for the weekend, she schleps her hair brush, curlers, hair spray, makeup, etc in this beat up square shoulder bag. I’m looking for something cute she can use while she is going away for the weekend that can replace this. Bonus if available on amazon. Thanks!
Anon
I like Leatherology for the lightness. Would travel or makeup pouches or organizers work? They also have a bunch of smaller duffle or tote bags in a variety of colors.
https://www.leatherology.com/leather-toiletry-and-cosmetic-bags/
https://www.leatherology.com/leather-duffle-bags/#page=1
anon
Amazon has some hanging toiletry bags that look good. I can’t speak to a specific one, but I plan on exploring the hanging bag route when I need to replace what I’m currently using.
Anonymous
I had posted yesterday about big health systems seeking donations from patients/former patients. Thanks to the hospital exec who answered — I read more about it and apparently wealth assessments of patients are totally being done at least at the major health systems to figure out who to solicit. It feels . . . icky, no? What do people think?
In my case it almost makes sense (as sensible as this could be) — any work study student assigned to google names can find in 2 seconds that I hold 2 degrees from that university + I live 3 hours away and despite there being other major academic health systems between my home and this place, I STILL choose to go to this place. Asking an alum like me — ok — not SO bad; if I were so inclined, I could target next years donations to the health system rather than to undergraduate giving, if I wanted to.
But asking someone whose ONLY affiliation with the university is that they needed care?? There was an NYT article on this earlier in the year and it included stories of — once they decide you are on their “wealth scale” they may have a hospital exec stop by during your stay just to make sure you’re satisfied; your family may be directed to better waiting areas/you may get better amenities; or even more direct they may have someone discuss with you the importance of philanthropy to their institution. That’s next level . . . .The person is here to focus on their care/get better and after charging their insurance tens of thousands, you are now asking for donations?? Growing up the local health system (where everyone I know had their babies) did a 1-2 times/yr golf outing and a gala — basically events that let local business men take the afternoon off to play or take their wives to a black tie event. Never thought much about those as my family wasn’t in those circles, but I think it was a means of bringing in a few hundred thousand a few times/yr but even that seems less icky because the people participating aren’t seeking care, are participating voluntarily in a game or a dinner, and frankly often they’re doing it for their own networking because they get to hang out with their peers in their own industry all while raising money.
To those who’ll invariably roll their eyes like they did yesterday that I’m wasting my mental energy and should hit unsubscribe — I’m merely curious about another industry that I don’t work in and would love others views. Same way people here ask about makeup or politics.
Anon
I would find it annoying and wouldn’t donate, but people are going to try to solicit what they can. I don’t think it’s shocking that they reach out to patients for donations. Sometimes people do want to donate if they receive what they perceive as excellent care.
AnonInHouse
Right. This is how fundraising works. I’m not sure why this is surprising.
KTD
I find it shocking that a hospital is allowed to share patient names with the development team. Why isn’t that a HIPAA violation? Gross.
Anon
45 CFR § 164.514 (f)
Anonymous
I think, again, you’re bizarrely overly invested in this and should move on.
Anon
+1
Anonymous
I think everyone here is bizarrely overinvested in politics and makeup and diets. So what? People have their interests. OP sounds like a finance type of person, as am I and these are things we tend to like.
Anon
I’ve always assumed that hospital roll out all the stops for very wealthy patients, like having special amenities and a hospital exec stop by. But I assume that is happen at the $10m/year salary and $100M+ in assets category. I expect that the Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, and Oprah’s of the world get better service everywhere they go in American given our country’s focus and worship of wealth. I don’t believe that they do this stuff for the “average” rich person making $300k a year.
Anonymous
Nope they do not! And lots of those amenities are actually charged to those patients.
Anon
I’m not sure what you mean by “our country’s focus and worship of wealth.” Find a place and time that doesn’t – and if they don’t, they worship strength or masculinity or ancestry.
Back to the point: if someone donates enough money for an upgraded waiting room, all the patients get a nice waiting room at the rich person’s expense. That’s the entire point.
I have zero patience for people who want nice things and then get upset when other people get third parties to pay for those nice things.
Anonymous
It’s just honestly shocking to me to see someone this worked up over an org asking for a donation.
So anon for this
I am new to it but work tangentially to this industry, so I’m not going to explain this very well. Especially since this is tied to a University, it makes sense to me. Yes, they are getting insurance money, just like universities get funding elsewhere (taxes, tuition), but people still donate for things like research, scholarships, capital projects, sponsoring faculty positions, etc. Same here. Donating to the hospital, especially since it is tied to the university could to to buying a piece of equipment, sponsoring research, benefiting patient experience, or going to the social services which can help out families or patients with everything from parking passes, meal vouchers, clothing, etc.
Healthcare philanthropy is a quickly growing industry. I would imagine most large hospitals use wealth screening tools. The same way a lot of other organizations that rely on philanthropy do.
Anon.
I guess I don’t find it ‘icky’ at all that the hospital solicits donations from patients, particularly those which they have identified as having the means to give. People are generally more likely to give to non-profit organizations where they have a personal connection, and ultimately the hospital is a non-profit organization and some of the services they provide are funded by donations.
You received a service there, you have now have a connection. Just like the non-profit dog rescue organization is probably going to add you to their donation mailing list after you adopted a dog and paid the adoption fees. Or the christian camp that I send my children to – yes, I pay a registration fee for it every year but they would also like me to donate.
Anon
I work in administration for a large academic medical center, most of which operate very similarly to one another. I think the first thing to keep in mind is that we are non-profit organizations. At our medical center, profits from patient care are used to directly prop up the academic part of what we do – training the next generation of healthcare professionals and research, research, research. While we do operate with grant money for research, a lot of what we do is self-funded.
It’s easy to say we’re using donations from wealthy individuals to create waterfalls in the lobbies and fly in palm trees, but that is simply not the case. These donations help fund community programs such as free medical clinics in low-income neighborhoods and on-the-street mental health care for homeless people. We also provide care to anyone who needs it, regardless of ability to pay.
All to say, donating to an academic medical center is worthy of consideration. They’re doing real good for their communities and the advancement of medicine overall.
In terms of wealth assessments of patients, the practice is not that widespread. As the NYT article alludes, many leaders find the practice unethical and out of line with organizational values. It happens, but perhaps that at the rates you might assume. It’s more likely that you ended up on a list because you had good insurance and a connection to the university and likely had a good outcome, so you fit the profile of a possible donor. I don’t think they’ve targeted you as giving 6 figures – but maybe a few hundred dollars
Anon
I just hope they limit these solicitations to the patients who received reasonably good care. This is the last thing I would want to see if I’d had a bad experience.
Dealtwiththis
I’m in fundraising but not at a hospital and I’m appalled that they reached out to you a week after you received care there. They should have sent a “get well and we care about you” letter and then MAYBE reached out to you to gauge your interest after a year or so had gone by. It is completely normal that the institution is screening their “attendees” for wealth info, every fundraising industry worth their salt does that, but I agree with you that it is completely out of line to not take into account that you might be dealing with a major health crisis right now.
AOK
Uh, I think you forgot to link where the yellow blouse is from.
Anon
http://www.anrdoezrs.net/links/3039637/type/dlg/sid/080219/fragment/pdp-page-content/https://www.gap.com/browse/product.do?pid=494640002&cid=34608&pcid=34608&grid=pds_14_352_1&cpos=14&cexp=1161&cid=CategoryIDs%3D34608&cvar=8259&ctype=Listing&cpid=res19073016862751896894887
Ribena
The wrap one? It is linked, it’s from Gap.
NYC gov atty jobs
I’m looking at several attorney jobs within NYC government agencies with supervisory responsibilities. Some are listed as “Attorney 3” and some as “Management 1”. Does anyone know if there are any practical differences, other than salary?
Anonymous
Managing people . . .
NYC gov atty jobs
See that’s what one would think, but the specific jobs I’m comparing say “supervising attorneys doing blah blah blah” but some are listed as Management 1 and some as Attorney 3. Hence my question.
Anonymous
Then likely pay band.
Anon
Agency Attorney Levels I to IV are union represented while Executive Agency Counsel position M-1 and above are managerial and receive benefits through the management benefit fund.
Anon
I work in administration for a large academic medical center, most of which operate very similarly to one another. I think the first thing to keep in mind is that we are non-profit organizations. At our medical center, profits from patient care are used to directly prop up the academic part of what we do – training the next generation of healthcare professionals and research, research, research. While we do operate with grant money for research, a lot of what we do is self-funded.
It’s easy to say we’re using donations from wealthy individuals to create waterfalls in the lobbies and fly in palm trees, but that is simply not the case. These donations help fund community programs such as free medical clinics in low-income neighborhoods and on-the-street mental health care for homeless people. We also provide care to anyone who needs it, regardless of ability to pay.
All to say, donating to an academic medical center is worthy of consideration. They’re doing real good for their communities and the advancement of medicine overall.
In terms of wealth assessments of patients, the practice is not that widespread. As the NYT article alludes, many leaders find the practice unethical and out of line with organizational values. It happens, but perhaps that at the rates you might assume. It’s more likely that you ended up on a list because you had good insurance and a connection to the university and likely had a good outcome, so you fit the profile of a possible donor. I don’t think they’ve targeted you as giving 6 figures – but maybe a few hundred dollars.
Dental Negotiation
Happy Friday!
Can y’all help me with a script? Situation: I very badly need to get a dental implant. The cost for the oral surgeon is going to be about $4k out of pocket after insurance and what little I have left in FSA. I did not really plan on needing this because I didn’t realize the negative impact of NOT getting the implant. However, the opposing tooth has started to “grow up” and it’s pushing around the other teeth. So… I need to start the process.
How do I negotiate for a lower rate or payment plan with the oral surgeon? For various reasons, care credit and/or credit cards are not an option.
Anon
It doesn’t need to be a big thing. They know dental care is expensive! “Hi, I was looking over the quote, and it’s quite expensive. Are there any options for making this more affordable? Thanks.”
Anonymous
Figure out if there is a way to break the treatment plan up to cover two insurance “years.” Dental often only covers x number of a certain type of treatment per year. There may be a way that the oral surgeon can create a plan to maximize your coverage–with implants there is the implant, then a “healing/ grafting” time, then placement of the abutment/ tooth.
editor
I’m surprised that they don’t have a payment plan. I am a veteran of 3 dental implants and am pretty sure I was able to make payments. (I realize that this is no help to you–just know that it’s not unheard of.) I never tried to get a lower rate, though.
Are you concerned about anything else? I am happy to answer any questions, especially since I basically added nothing to the conversation or your actual question :)
Anon tech worker
Anonymous for obvious reasons…
I heard from a friend that a previous employer apparently sent me a cease and desist letter that I didn’t receive. I haven’t worked for this company in 2+ years, nor had really any substantial contact with anyone who works there anymore in those two years, so I’m a bit in the dark regarding what this letter would be demanding. I likely didn’t receive it because I moved cities after leaving this employer (from NYC to Boston) and probably never updated my address with them. Is there anyway to find out now what this letter might say? Would I need a lawyer to do this? If so, anyone have any recommendations for lawyers in Boston who may be able to help? I work in technology/software development if that helps!
TIA!
Anon
I see no good that can come of trying to find out what it said.
Anonymous
Exactly this.
This is one of those situations that if it is really a problem, they will take steps to find you. I would not contact your former company or hire an attorney to do so.
Anonymous
Did you sign any sort of restrictive covenant? If so, they’re probably accusing you of violating it.
Anonymous
Since you are in tech, my guess is the letter would be about either (1) your potential use of confidential information from former employer at new employer (if they are in the same space as a new employer, they may just send this regardless of whether they have any basis to think you’re acting badly), or (2) if you have a noncompete (not enforceable in all scenarios, but yes in some) it might also be about that. Be smart and be aware of what your obligations are to former employer. Maybe your friend can give you some more context. If you’re not at that address, presumably former employer had the letter returned to sender and will try again if they care a lot about reaching you. Lawyer here, not your lawyer.
Anon
I see no benefit to you from finding out more, and question how accurate your “friend” was. I’ve sent many a cease and desist letter, and it is always because they are violating some type of restriction (e.g., not to work for a competitor for x time, not to share trade secrets). The point of sending such a letter, assuming the sending is not just crazy, is some combination of (1) to get the violation to stop, (2) to open negotiations, and (3) as a first step to filing a law suit. Every time I have sent one, I make sure it is received. If the company cares, it is super easy to locate the vast majority of people and they would have found your new address. Assuming you are not working for a competitor after you agreed not to, didn’t steal trade secrets, and are not spreading lies about the ex-company, there is no reason to worry.
What benefit do you see to finding out more?
Anon tech worker
OP here —
Thanks for all of your comments!
I still work in tech, but now in a different industry/on a different platform (think Oracle to Salesforce, though not the actual platforms in this case). I also observed my 6 month non-compete, and didn’t share any trade secrets/IP.
I wanted to see what the letter said in the case that my former employer was suing/I would need a lawyer — I figured it was better to be prepared if it does happen and to potentially clear the record. I suppose I won’t worry about it now, unless anyone thinks it would be best to hire someone to try to find out!
Anonymous
Cease and desist letters are not the vehicle by which you get sued. They are literally some combination of stop doing XYZ now/pay us to keep doing XYZ or we will come after you harder.
Anon
I have my first appointment with a therapist (first counseling appointment in my life ever) and I’m pretty nervous. I filled out all the paperwork so I assume we will just go over that today? I am scared and not ready to completely open up or talk about anything difficult yet.
Anon
First off – you are doing a great thing! Therapy can be a wonderful experience if you go in with the right expectations and attitude.
The first session is usually a “getting to know each other” experience. You will want to be able to talk about why you’re seeking out therapy and what you’re hoping to get out of it (e.g., I’ve been arguing with my spouse lately and would like to understand how to better approach disagreements in our marriage). The therapist might want to know your medical and family history. It’s also a good opportunity to get more information on your therapist’s approach to counseling and background/training (if you don’t already know this). It might be helpful to do a little research on some of the more popular styles that are out there – CBT and DBT are some of the ones you see a lot these days.
Lana Del Raygun
Congratulations and good luck! You’ll probably talk about any assessment that was in the paperwork, and all the therapists/counselors I’ve seen have started with some version of “what made you decide to come to counseling?” sometimes with “what do you want to get out it?”/”what are your goals?” My strategy is to say whatever I would say if a friend asked me why I was going to counseling, in case that helps. And you can totally say you don’t feel ready to talk about anything difficult yet. Fingers crossed for you!
Elegant Giraffe
Good for you for going! The therapist has worked with many first time clients. Yes, you’ll go over the paperwork. S/he might say something like, “what do you want to talk about today?” It’s ok to not have an answer or to say “I’m feeling pretty nervous and not ready to open up yet.” They’ll guide you until you’re ready to take the lead.
Vicky Austin
You are doing a great thing! My first session with a therapist she asked me to give her a high-level overview of my life and we talked a little about why I had wanted to come see her and what my goals were. I had made a list of goals in a note on my phone.
Anon
I guess that’s another thing…she asked that twice in the paperwork but I have a pretty bland response….my goal is to not be so depressed anymore. I don’t really have a much more creative response than that.
anonshmanon
That sounds like an excellent goal to me!
Panda Bear
That’s OK too. You don’t need to have creative or impressive answers. A skilled therapist will help you unpack what you are feeling at a pace that feels comfortable to you. You might be surprised to find that its easier to talk than you are fearing it will be. And if not, that is all right – your therapist’s role is to help you get to where you need to be by facilitating the conversation. Take some of that pressure off yourself!
anon
She’ll help figure out the path to get you there. She will ask you the right questions to elicit the responses she needs to figure out how to get you there. Don’t worry– obviously be engaged and participate in your therapy but a good therapist is like a good investigator and will know how to uncover what’s going on. Instead of thinking about “goals” (that can be such a loaded word) maybe brain storm on a smaller scale– what symptoms do you feel? What do you want relief from? Depression manifests differently for different people– are you angry? irritable? sad? lethargic? anxious? sleeping a lot? not sleeping enough? how’s your eating? do you feel numb? do you feel extremely sensitive or volatile? sad all the time? hopeless? worthless? What do you want to be able to do? (feel hopeful? clean your apartment? pick up hobbies again? see/make more friends? date? improve your relationship? feel present? do better work? stop self-harm thoughts? resolve a past trauma? Can you list some examples of recent experiences where you feel depression has gotten in your way or negatively affected you? (Ie, I was super lonely last Saturday but just could not get up the nerve/energy/happiness/motivation to call a friend.)
You’re doing a great thing for yourself.