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Updated: Mar 14, 2021 359 Comments · by

Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Ramora Skinny Joggers

The Personal Shopper (TPS)

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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

In my eighth week of working from home, I’m really starting to appreciate the versatility of joggers. They’re practical, comfortable, and look a little more intentional than my typical sweatpants. If I were looking to upgrade my jogger game, I’d be headed directly toward this hot pink pair from Alice + Olivia. If you work in a creative field, I can see these paired with a more subdued top. If you’re WFH in a job that’s typically a bit more formal, wear these with a black sweater for your next Zoom meeting — no one needs to know!

The pants are $177, marked down from $295, and available in sizes 0–14. Ramora Skinny Joggers

While these Splendid joggers are certainly more casual, they're also lower priced — $34–$84 at Amazon. And these Eloquii pants aren't in a jogger style, but they're a very similar pink, and they are $79.95 (short, regular, and long in 14–28). 

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Sales of note for 9.30.24

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

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About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. Ribena

    These joggers make me relieved I’ve unearthed my sunglasses from the bottom of my work bag! So bright!! (Does anyone wear them with kitten heels?)

    • Anonymous

      So fun! For a lower price option, I found a pair of tweed patterned joggers at Talbots. They look like real pants on Zoom.

      • Ellen

        I would love to get these skinny joggers b/c of the color. My tuchus, however won’t remain hidden with this tighter cut, particularly in the back. The alternative–sweatpants—are easier to hide my tuchus, but not flattering at all. This corona virus is NOT a friend of people like me which need to move alot during the day. Instead, I am forced to sit at my desk during the day, listening to webinars and doing my briefs for telephonic confrence with the court.

    • Anonymous

      I’m 5-4 but most of that must be leg because the cuff of joggers always hits mid-calf and then rides up, making them look like . . . knickers? Bad capris? Pedal pushers? And because I am generous of glutes/thighs, it is a lot of look, sort of like a human race horse where you have this immense upper leg and these tiny bottom legs.

      • Ribena

        Plus-fours or knickerbockers is the thing that most comes to mind here. What a look. Especially in the tweed mentioned by anon at 9.28…

        • Anonymous

          Wow. What in the world?! What sort of shoes would you even wear with those? I cannot imagine anything not compounding the horror of knickers.

          • Ribena

            When I say ‘what a look’ I mean ‘you’d look like you’d walked off the set of Downton Abbey,’ to clarify. I think I once had a stage costume involving plus-fours… to play a fox in The Wind In The Willows. I was *dashing*.

    • TheElms

      I’ve never worn joggers, but I think they could be a better more put together weekend look for me. Are there any you’d recommend for someone who is 5’3″, a size 10/12 on bottom (pear shaped generally), with a bigger behind/thicker thighs? I’d probably want black or grey, but navy could work too.

    • anon

      Am I doing joggers wrong? People seem to love them but I feel so frumpy in them. Is it the specific ones I bought? I feel much better in leggings, but I’ve always been behind the trends.

      • anon8

        I prefer leggings too. I’m 42 and joggers remind me of what I wore to gym class back in middle school. And I can’t figure out what tops to wear with them. Skinny jeans or leggings with a looser top work best with my body type and that’s what I’m sticking with.

        • bellatrix

          anon8, also 42, and same. It tickles me how the sweatpants I hated 30 years ago have just gotten a rebrand and minor edit, and now they’re chic(-ish). But I still treat them as sweatpants, so they only get worn for lounging, short errands or my very casual Saturday-morning book club. I don’t think I could pull off woven or bright joggers.

    • Housecounsel

      Is anyone else delighted to be having a normal conversation about pink pants? It is refreshing and makes me happy!

    • LaurenB

      Dumb question. What IS a jogger? What makes a jogger a jogger as opposed to a sweatpant or yoga pant or whatever?

      • No Longer Anon

        The band around the cuff, I think. I think of sweatpants as maybe having elastic around the bottom but not a band like this, and yoga pants as bootcut or leggings.

      • Z

        I just think of them as slim fitting sweatpants, but not skin-tight like yoga pants.

      • Never too many shoes...

        Also, I think a lot of the joggers out now are not sweatpant material.

      • Anony

        I believe that a jogger is a tapered leg pant (not always sweatpant) with an elastic hem and waist. Initially, I remember seeing them as men’s pants designed to show off sneakers/other footwear. A traditional sweatpant has a straight leg with an elastic cuff which makes for the slightly balloon leg appearance. Then yoga pants are either bootcut or flared leg with no elastic.

  2. Anonome

    I am dismayed to see pants with front center seams are coming back. They’re fussy and uncomfortable, and they always twist up and fall sideways. Really hate this trend!

    • lsw

      I like them – they are really flattering for me! But then again, the side seams on leggings never stay straight on my calves (I hate leggings) so maybe i have weird legs.

  3. Anon

    Has anyone had COVID or know someone who has had it? What happened? How are you/they feeling now?

    I live in a major city but don’t know anyone affected (yet).

    • Anon

      My coworker’s teen daughter had it pretty bad, and gave it to the rest of the family who had milder symptoms. They couldn’t get tested because the hospital said tests were reserved for the ICU patients but they had all the symptoms to believe it was covid19. They’ve since recovered. We’re in a SEUS metro.

      • Anonymous

        Interesting. Also in the SEUS. Any thoughts on how the teen daughter got it? I have tweens, so thinking of how the summer may look if / when things re-open. Or perhaps we just have a flowers-in-the-attic summer and I can pass on buying sunscreen this year.

        • Anonymous

          This is not how any of this works. My goodness. We could all get it in any number of ways.

          • Anonymous

            IDK — we are used to the idea that we can get in travelling or via nursing homes or via working in meat packing. From teens isn’t really on my radar and our schools have been shut for quite a while, so maybe there was initial symptomless school spread? Or this is all just random (but other spread is showing to be very non-random, which is helpful because we can work extra hard to avoid and protect those people).

          • Anonymous

            Anonymous at 10:10 am – why can’t it be both? It can be both “localized” (nursing homes, meat packing plants, etc.) AND it can be “random bad luck of the draw” (I stood behind someone who sneezed, touched a doorknob they had touched, etc.).

          • Anonymous

            I guess you never know a lot of things conclusively. But there are some patterns and known risks / transmission routes. And the rest is luck / bad luck (transit taker, multi-person household, etc.). I think that we’ve been stuck at home as a household for almost 2 months now watching too many detective shows and think that we can just figure it out if we get all of the clues.

        • Anon

          She was in a boarding school in one southern state and then came home to a nextdoor state when school closed. Not sure if she picked it up from school or along the way.

    • Ribena

      Not in person (although lots of people who have had symptoms) but a fair few people in my orbit online have had it.
      News today that it was in Paris in December makes me think it’s more likely that what I brought back from the Alps in mid-Jan might have been The Virus.

      • Anonymous

        I read some stories this morning in the NYT and another paper about how they are finding December cases in places other than China (including the consumer electronics show in Vegas).

        • Jo March

          Yes, that news startled me a bit. We have a professor in my department who travels frequently to China and was actually in the same province towards the end of last year. Some of our students have speculated that his week-long sickness a month after his return was that, but our state didn’t have any confirmed/tested cases until late Feb/early March. I’m concerned that not having testing kits ready to go earlier is going to make it very difficult to ascertain what happened. People who want to argue for lower numbers will point to the fact that we can’t know with 100% certainty because those people weren’t tested, while people who believe the numbers are higher than recorded will believe the symptoms described. It’s frustrating to me because knowing this would help us better prepare for the next pandemic.

    • Anon for this one

      Several twice-removed acquaintances have died from it. A nursing home in my city has roughly 40 cases and 10 deaths. Clerks in our grocery store have come down with it.

      I believe I may have had it in early February. A coworker returned from a cruise with an awful “flu” and 5 days later, I came down with it. It was a dry cough, lots of trouble breathing, fever in and off, utter exhaustion, and it lasted for a solid month. Absolutely horrible. At the time we weren’t hearing much about the virus being in our area, just that some cruise ship in Asia had it. Testing wasn’t a thing yet. I kept thinking it was the weirdest flu I’ve ever had and a few times breathing was scary. I have no underlying conditions.

      • Anon

        Curious – what blood type are you? I’ve read evidence that it doesn’t affect O types as much as A/B types.

        • Anon for this one

          A something. Don’t remember for sure +/-, but I know it isn’t O.

    • CountC

      Yes, one of our sales directors had it. He was off work for over a week. He’s back now (remotely, obviously), but still struggles with energy levels and being able to talk for more than a few minutes without coughing a lot. He said it was absolutely miserable and the worst he has ever felt in his life.

      • CountC

        I should add that we have also had several confirmed cases throughout the company and, very tragically, two deaths that I am aware of.

      • Anon

        I keep hearing about younger people who have recovered but not fully (as in, they’re still experiencing fatigue, breathing issues, and sometimes tachycardia). I feel like the weeks are going by, and I’d really like to start hearing that people are back to 100%.

    • Velma

      Yes. I’m in NYS (not the metro area) and know several people who have had it, most in the NYC area and suburbs. Despite best efforts, it definitely seems to pass through families and everyone in the household ends up with it.

      The first couple we know who had it live in the Catskills, but traveled in California in late Feb./early Mar. They got sick in the second week of March. He had high fever, sweats, wrenching body aches, and extreme fatigue–worse at night, and highs and lows, where he felt a bit better and then crashed again. He was seriously ill (at home–not hospitalized) for about two weeks, but unable to work or do much for nearly a month. He said it was unlike any illness he has ever had, but closest to awful flu + fatigue like mono. She got fever and respiratory effects, including some pneumonia, but was able to fight it off over a couple of weeks; she lost her sense of smell and cooking/eating enough was a real struggle for both of them.

      • Anon for this one

        My comment is still in mod but awful flu plus mono fatigue is an accurate description.

    • Anonymous

      Live in NYC, two friends confirmed and one probable…miserable two weeks for all, mostly back to normal but 2 of the 3 are still much more tired than normal, weeks later.

      One former coworker died (she was immunocompromised but only in her 30s).

    • Abby

      Yes, I know about 10 people, all physicians. None of them were admitted to the hospital, and they only got tested because they had to stay home from work. All are recovered, majority of them are in their late 20s and had symptoms for a few days, no appetite and fatigue, then felt fine but didn’t return to work because of the 2 week period.

    • Vicky Austin

      I have a hunch my husband had it. He traveled to New Orleans at the very beginning of January and came home sicker than I have ever seen him. He was down for about two weeks, dehydrated, exhausted, hacking, no appetite. At the time, his doctor discussed with us the possibility of testing for COVID due to his travel history, but it never came to pass (I forget why). His flu test was negative. I moved into the guest room promptly when he got home (I have no idea why, I wouldn’t usually do that kind of thing) and never felt so much as a twinge.

    • Anon for this

      I too live in a major city and don’t know anyone personally that has had it. I’m curious however if my husband and I did and didn’t know it – we traveled west in late Feb (ski trip) and both of us then had what we assumed was a weird cold (he had a day of chills and shaking but not much of a fever; we both had a cough that persisted for about two weeks but not a ton of mucus). I guess when antibody tests are more reliable and widespread we’ll find out…

    • Anon

      Yes, my uncle’s mother and my dad’s cousin (both on Long Island, both over 70). They both died.

    • Diana Barry

      Yes. One of our good friends had it and was REALLY sick for about a month. Couldn’t get out of bed for 2 weeks. Both he and his wife had it but her symptoms weren’t as bad. They got it from their au pair.

      My husband’s work partner had it – he is older (75) but luckily had a mild case.

      My husband’s other work partner’s dad had it and was in the hospital with pneumonia, but is better now, no word on whether he has lasting lung damage etc.

      One of the associates at my firm had it – he is v young (28?) and had a mild case.

      I am also wondering if I had it in February, but I had a very productive cough and that’s not supposed to be the way the cough is.

      • Anonymous

        follow-on questions: au pair lives with them — how did she get it? and there are kids? do you know how they were affected (and ages)?

        • Diana Barry

          Partying with friends? No idea. Kids (4&7) seemed not to get it or to be asymptomatic.

          • Anonymous

            Omg srsly? Or going to a store. Or from your friends kid who might have been asymptotic. Or from another family at the playground. Why demonize a young foreign woman who you literally do not know?

          • Cat

            I didn’t read DB’s guess as judgmental, just possibly factual. Au pairs are allowed a social life… and that’s where they would come in close contact with a lot of people from different families?

          • Anon

            Yeah, sorry, I’m not normally one to get into stuff like this but blaming the au pair here is really not a good look. Kids – especially ages 4-7 – are almost always asymptomatic, so of course with the research as we know it now it could have easily come from them.

          • anon

            Sure it’s a possibility but why imply that the au pair must have been careless/reckless when there are many other blameless options that are equally (if not more) likely?

          • Anonymous

            I don’t think that anyone is blameworthy for getting it! But we don’t know much about how it spreads generally (vs nursing homes and health care workers caring for the sick) and I think that (and am assuming that) people are curious. If a person says “IDK; I live in NYC and take transit” that is as good a guess as any. If you live in a random smaller city elsewhere, especially if you don’t travel, people I think are naturally curious.

            In my city, initial spread seems to have been via bank employees here who travel frequently to NYC for work. BUT subsequent spread has been largely at nursing homes with very few young children or even teens (my city has many children, but our schools shut early and white-collar workers have been WFH about the same amount of time).

          • Anonymous

            Oh good grief. It could have come from the au pair picking up things at the grocery store for the family. It could have actually come from one of the parents but the au pair showed signs before they did. It could have come from one of the children who had a playdate before this all came to pass. I don’t care for the “au pair must have been partying” speculation.

          • Maudie Atkinson

            FWIW, I took Diana Barry’s suggestion that the au pair contracted the virus “[p]artying with friends?” as a joke. As in, “Who cares how the au pair got it–whether it was licking door knobs or caring for the kids or partying with friends?”

      • Anonymous

        On the productive cough, most articles say about 1/3 of people do have a productive cough. I very likely had Covid. I could not get tested because I am in my 30s and otherwise healthy and don’t live with anyone high risk. I did, however, have multiple video consultations with the Covid clinic at the well-respected university hospital nearby. They very much believe I had it, as my illness progressed closely to confirmed cases in my area have (and there are a lot of them). I actually called back after I felt mostly back to normal energy-wise because I was coughing up so much and thought it had turned into a secondary infection. The doctor said it was normal as long as I don’t have a second fever.

        To answer the original question…I had a scratchy throat/cough for two days, then fever from 100.5-102.5 for four days with cough, aches, and chills, and then about another 3-4 days of feeling subpar with cough. It started on a Thursday, and by the Monday a week and a half later, my energy was basically back to normal, but I coughed a bunch for another 2-3 weeks. About two and a half weeks after my symptoms first started, I began coughing up a lot of stuff. I’d say it took about 4 weeks total before my lungs truly felt normal again. My husband had symptoms when I had my fever – fatigue and irritated lungs for a few days. Our daughter never showed any symptoms.

    • Anon

      I got what I think was Covid in early March. I had a high fever, severe body aches (it was so uncomfortable – I have never experienced anything like those aches), a dry cough, and was wiped out for several days. I also couldn’t smell or taste anything for several days, including after the primary symptoms backed off – I remember it being a revelation when I could taste coffee again. It wasn’t like any flu I’ve ever had. I had been in contact the previous week (traveling around to lots of meetings in a car together) with a coworker who had come in from the Bay Area and she got the same thing at the same time I did; it hit her harder than it hit me and she was down for over a week. My husband got a pretty mild version and only missed a day of work but had the same symptoms, including the loss of taste/smell. Our teenage son had no symptoms and seemed totally unaffected, which was odd by itself – usually when one of us gets sick, we all get it. I called my doctor at the time and was told it probably wasn’t Covid and even if it was, there was no way for me to get tested as no one in our city had access to tests except the hospitals, to test people coming in via ambulance. I was still recovering when they canceled school in our area and we went into lockdown. We’re planning on getting antibody tested as soon as a reliable antibody test is available.

    • Anon

      Yes. Two elderly relatives passed away. 35 year old cousin has it now. She’s in generally poor health/very overweight which made us all very concerned when it comes to battling this, but seems to be doing ok (relatively speaking; no hospitalization). First two lived in assisted living. Cousin runs a skilled nursing/rehab facility, so there’s no mystery to how any of them caught it.

    • Clementine

      I know a number of people who have had it. Here’s the low/middle/high ranges.

      A few (2 healthcare workers) were asymptomatic. They were only tested because somebody needed an excuse as to why they were going to miss clinical hours. They were super freaked out because they work with vulnerable populations.

      One husband and wife who currently have it: early 30’s, so exhausted they had to have a family member come in to take care of their infant. Husband is about 5 days ahead of wife, he ended up in the hospital on high flow O2 for a couple days last week, she has had her O2 dip down into the 80’s and went to the hospital but they sent her home.

      One friend – healthy crossfitter who runs 15+ miles/week in her early 30’s. Had such severe neurological symptoms she was hospitalized for a week +, unable to walk or move, is missing the memory of 3-4 days, was tested for stroke/aneurysm as that’s what her symptoms were most similar too. She genuinely thought she wasn’t going to see her 1 year old again. Able to recover and 3-4 weeks after being discharged, lingering exhaustion is still here.

    • Anonymous

      The people who moved into my rental house after me got it on a trip to NY early on and recovered. They were at home and didn’t need to be hospitalized for anything. They are in a testing program now for plasma donations and I bet that that is a very interesting waiting room with the story swapping.

    • CPA Lady

      My cousin (in her 50s) got it, was hospitalized in ICU on a vent, but came through it. She just came home from the hospital yesterday after being in for 2.5 weeks. It started out with mostly digestive symptoms for her, then spiraled from there with the respiratory stuff. Her kidneys almost failed at one point as well. We really thought she was going to die.

      I have a friend who is a nurse who got it with mild symptoms in early March. She’s totally fine now. She’s in her early 30s and is very healthy otherwise.

      • Anon

        I’m sorry about your cousin. Will she have lasting kidney issues or were they completely resolved?

    • Anon New Yorker

      My best friend, who lives in NJ, had it, as did her husband and toddler (all had symptoms and positive antibody tests), her nanny and the nanny’s family all had it and nanny was hospitalized. Another friend and her husband have it and said it was like a bad flu with no sense of taste or smell but they are recovering at home — didn’t get tested. Someone I know professionally lost two grandparents to it (they live in Louisiana), and he and the rest of his extended family all had it and recovered. I know at least 15 more people professionally who had or have it, but I don’t know the extent — some of them have now returned to work, but all were out for at least 4 weeks. One person in my professional circle, whom I didn’t know personally, died of it.

      About 1/3 of the people I know suspect they had it (including me) but haven’t been tested so they aren’t sure. I’m waiting to learn more about antibody testing before I get tested — I’m going to take all precautions anyway regardless of results.

    • American Girl

      My best friend had it. Mid-thirties, female, no underlying health conditions. She lives in a mid-sized city. Terrible fever for two weeks and severe shortness of breath. She was never hospitalized but probably should have been. Six weeks later she has not regained full lung capacity.

    • anon

      Talked to a friend last weekend who recovered from it. He’s young and relatively fit, and did not get pneumonia, but loss of sense of smell and body aches and fatigue. He said it felt like having been hit by a truck, worse than any flu. His girlfriend had it as well.

    • Equestrian Attorney

      My client had it (in his 50s) and while he is better now, it was really bad and for a while they thought he wouldn’t make it.
      My friend’s grandfather (91) had it and unfortunately passed away.
      Another friend of mine (32) had it and is fine now, but it was a rough two weeks.

    • NOLA

      Yes, a colleague of mine had it and recovered. It took a while, despite the fact that she is young. Also, we attended a wedding in mid-March and one of the guys we visited with at a pre-wedding party had it and one of the grooms had it right after the wedding. Despite the fact that we interacted with them, we didn’t get it. Both have recovered. Dude is convinced that he had it in early February – he came home from a conference in Orlando very sick and it took weeks to recover, but I don’t think he had the expected symptoms and he tested positive for Influenza A. He hasn’t had an antibody test, so who knows.

    • anon a mouse

      A dear family member had it in Colorado. She is quite healthy (and health-conscious) and 30 years old. No idea where she got it as she WFH permanently. She was extremely sick for more than 2 weeks — probably should have gone to a hospital to help with her breathing, but toughed it out. She’s been recovered about 10 days. I keep reading about how younger people who recover are dying of strokes and am trying not to freak out.

    • kk

      A very close friend of mine in Philadelphia is a nurse working with the elderly. She was exposed about a month ago, and had medium symptoms for about two weeks- cough and chest pain, fever and chills, exhaustion, and no smell/taste. She had to quarantine (real quarantine, not just social distance) alone in her basement to avoid giving it to her husband and 18 month old daughter- her husband put food at the top of the stairs for her and she mostly slept and watched netflix during that time. She’s fine but still frequently exhausted, and back to work- the hospital “asked” her to come back 7 days after she stopped experiencing symptoms.

      My husband and I got bad colds in December, right after Christmas. We got it from my dad, who visits China a few times a year and whose coworkers had recently been to China. My dad felt like he had a bad cold and he had a lingering cough for about a month- he’s unflappable and thinks it was just a winter cold. A few days later, I had regular cold/flu symptoms – including chills- and it was my perception that my husband had a similar experience BUT he’s such a drama llama that he kept insisting that it was pneumonia at the time, and was convinced he was going to die. He did not die, he recovered in about a week, just as I did. He is going around telling people that he had the Coronavirus. I strongly suspect he did not, but this isnt the hill I want to die on, so.

      • Anon

        I jokingly say I had West Nile virus in 1999 when there was an outbreak in New York and I had all the symptoms, but no way to know for sure.

    • Moonstone

      Five members of my extended family were diagnosed (on both sides, so not all from the same source). The ones in their 50s recovered. The two in their 80s died.

    • ANON

      Mid-Atlantic city: a former colleague lost both her parents, a good friend’s father died, a colleague who was hospitalized and has serious lung damage, and a friend of my husband’s who was hospitalized but seems to be ok.

    • annienomous

      An aunt and a friend each had it. Aunt got it at work (she’s an accountant for a beer distributor) from a coworker whose spouse is in health care. She’s in a very small, rural community. She was extremely ill for three weeks, very high temp, lost her sense of smell, etc. She has finally recovered and is expected to return to work this week. Uncle is assumed to have had it, too, but he was asymptomatic.

      Friend got it working at a mental health clinic from a patient in STL. She’s pregnant and was extremely tired and lost her sense of smell/taste. Her husband also got it and felt much sicker than she did. She just got her antibodies test results and is believed to now be immune for at least a year! The doctors think the baby will also be born with immunity.

    • cbackson

      Friendly acquaintance in his 30s had it (confirmed by test). Super-fit guy (I know him from triathlon) and it was mild for him – fatigue was his most significant symptom. No significant fever at any point, btw.

      Good friend in his late 50s had a doctor-suspected case that tested negative at the hospital, but they were unsure if it was a false negative given how closely his symptoms fit the profile (poor oxygen levels, shortness of breath, fatigue, dry cough, fever) and the fact that he wasn’t positive for anything else. He was in the hospital for several days (not ICU, no ventilator) and is still significantly fatigued 10 days later. He’s self-isolating at home given that the hospital is so unsure about the validity of the negative test. He is generally in very poor health (COPD, obesity, and hypertension, as well as a recent history of pneumonia) and while as COVID cases go I don’t think his was particularly severe (if that’s even what it was), he’s just in a position where any serious illness will be risky.

      A co-worker from my old firm was believed to have died from it based on her symptoms, but after autopsy it turned out to be bacterial meningitis.

      • Anonymous

        How are things in the military generally? A lot of them are young and healthy, but they live in very close quarters if in barracks / training / on a ship / deployed. I feel like I have the news on a lot and have seen schools, prisons, nursing homes discussed a lot but not this (and we have bases in my state, but not super-close to me).

      • Anonymous

        Wow — that is such a story. Thank you for sharing.

        The big take away is how much weight the doctor attributed to his wife spending 3 hours with him. I know that you can’t measure and quantify things like that, but I totally believe that things like that can often make big differences. There is a lot that science can tell you. And a lot that it, sadly, can’t. The spiritual and emotional dimensions of health and healing are often important to have in the sauce. Even when you lose a person, that is important for the care team and those left behind.

    • Housecounsel

      My daughter (college junior) had it very early. Her first symptom was a drastic loss of taste and smell, but that was before anyone knew that was a COVID-19 thing. Her fever was around 100.5 and she felt like she had a sinus infection. She never had a cough or shortness of breath. It took four days for the result of the swab test to come back, and she was feeling almost 100% by then. The loss of taste lingered for a couple of weeks.

    • DCR

      My boss had it. He is in his mid-50s, but extremely healthy. He runs about 5 miles every day, doesn’t eat red meat, and otherwise eats very healthy. He was completely knocked out for about 2 weeks, exhausted for another 2 weeks, and now, another 4 weeks later, he still can’t run more than 2 miles without having real trouble breathing.

      If you live in a major city, my guess is that you probably do actually know someone who has had covid but that you just don’t know that they had it. My boss told the people who work on his team, but the rest of the office just learned that someone in the office tested positive (it took so long and so many attempts for him to be able to get a test, the office was already closed by the time the result came back). I would probably tell my very closest friends (and anyone I had direct contact with in the last 2 weeks, which is zero people), but probably not everyone I know given how many people are very judgmental about it and assume that you did something wrong if you tested positive (see this thread itself). I suspect many people are taking that approach.

      • Anonymous

        If I had had been diagnosed, sharing that might let people get tested in areas where tests are being restricted (as they were initially). And give them better ammunition to advocate for care they may need. And excuses from work that they might also need. And then when you are a known recovered person, people might like (like the next time you get a cough, you’re not a threat b/c you’ve had it recently).

        I don’t think I’ve had it but I am curious as to exposure via travel early on, so I may get tested out of curiousity. [Like I might be more likely to visit elderly relatives post-having it than with an unknown status.]

          • Anonymous

            No one has proven it yet, but researchers who have studies other coronaviruses state that they expect this for COVID-19 also and that it may not be lifetime protection and may not be complete protection (think flu shot — you may get it, but it should be milder). What does the magic 8-ball say — Signs Point to Yes? That is the best current answer here, too.

          • Anonymous

            Not a gambler, but I’d put $ on “possibly immune, possibly only short-term, possibly still able to get it but as a milder case” if you have had it. Unclear if you were symptom free but have antibodies per a good test, but I bet the effect is statistically better than nothing, at least short-term.

        • anonintheuk

          Possibly I had it, as I travelled to Italy shortly before it shut down, but I was not tested as at that point the UK switched to only testing the hospitalised. Which in some ways is a pity as it would give them more to look at in terms of why some people are slightly ill
          Symptoms, lasting 15-20 days in total: headache, general muscular aching, swollen glands in neck, somewhat (though not seriously) short of breath, mild cough, chills and shivering, and about halfway through, some rather TMI gastric symptoms – along the lines of ‘what on earth did I eat for THAT to happen’. Treated with hot drinks, painkillers, cough linctus.
          Self-isolated after returning from Italy on government advice.

    • Anon

      Someone else posted a week or so ago, in detail, about their terrible experience with it. They were hospitalized.

    • Anon

      FIL in a memory care facility in SEUS has it. He is supposedly the first person in his facility to have it and was not tested until he was on day 7 of symptoms (despite family requesting a test on day 1 of symptoms and a physician ordering the test on day 2 of symptoms). He received his positive test on day 10 of symptoms (yesterday) and is not doing great. He is also on hospice, so no ventilator/intubation. The worst part of it is that no one can be with him when/if he passes. Also– the facility did not quarantine him or use PPE with staff until he had a positive test, so who knows how many people at the facility now have it.

      Several friends/acquaintances in my SEUS city and surrounding SEUS cities had symptoms like cough, shortness of breath, low oxygen levels, and were very sick in early March but were not able to get tested due to lack of international travel history, and they were supposedly in places with no community spread and no cases. Several others had similar symptoms and tested negative for COVID-19 and the flu– we all think they had false negatives on the COVID-19 test. These people all had moderate cases and have now recovered, though they were very sick for a few weeks.

    • LaurenB

      A friend of a friend lost both her parents to it within a matter of days. The parents lived in Connecticut, were in their 60’s, and were otherwise healthy, in good shape, no underlying health issues.

      • Anonymous

        I wonder (not a scientist) if there aren’t some strains that are especially bad or something in our makeup that results, seemingly randomly, in mild cases and fatal/near-fatal cases. It is really inexplicable even as a person who spends hour a day scouring news and medical study .pdfs as if The Answer is out there and I just haven’t looked hard enough.

        [It wouldn’t surprise me, like how if you have sickle-cell disease it is beneficial if you are in a malaria-prone area, but horrible to live with if you aren’t. I just can’t think of other diseases that present so seemingly randomly.]

        • AFT

          As mentioned above, blood type may be a factor, or some genetic element that isn’t really known yet. To me that’s the scariest part – age/lack of risk factors may give people comfort that it’s not that bad for them and they risk it, but they may have an unknown/unidentified risk factor that makes the very fit people described in some of the comments particularly susceptible.

        • Anonymous

          You really need to stop. No. There aren’t particularly bad strains. That’s been published repeatedly. Treat your anxiety.

          • Anon

            The question of why people are experiencing such different outcomes from the same virus is being studied and discussed currently. You’re right that the answer seems not to be different strains, but it’s not “anxiety” to recognize that explanations are needed. Researchers are also still trying to figure out risk factors (we used to think conditions that affected breathing, like asthma, were going to be major risk factors, but in the data from NY, it’s looking like cardiovascular risk factors are a bigger concern). I’m regularly very deficient in vitamin D, so I’m personally curious about correlations between vitamin D status and outcomes. These questions are relevant to individual decisions about risk taking, so it’s not irrational to be interested.

    • AFT

      A friend of my father’s died. He was an older man but otherwise healthy in Chicago who would have caught it in early/mid March.
      My 75 year old mother in law had a really persistant case of pneumonia in late Jan/early Feb, but didn’t have a fever, so I’d say it’s possible she might have had it. Once serology tests become more reliable, I’d like her to take one to see if they can confirm – but don’t want it to encourage riskier behavior if results aren’t yet reliable and we’re not totally sure that you get immunity.
      Anecdotally, I feel more aware of older/sick relatives of friends dying recently based on facebook posts and other communications, but not COVID related (directly). Wondering if it’s the increased non-COVID mortality that I’ve seen discussed – possibly from stress or delaying medical treatment? I’m a big shelter in place advocate so this is not intended to be any SAH order, so please don’t flame me.

      • Anonymous

        I wonder how many of them are actually dying of Covid-induced strokes, etc.

    • LaurenB

      And my daughter’s client’s wife died from COVID. She was a nurse in Chicago, though I do not know if she was front-line with COVID patients or not. Don’t know her specific age, but 30-something.

    • Anonymous

      My aunt and uncle had it and survived but both required hospitalization and we didn’t know if my uncle would make it. A colleague in DC died and a family member’s father died as well.

    • Anon

      In February I traveled cross country three times. The first week of March I attended a local event where everyone practiced what we were calling social distancing for the first time, which basically came down to no hand shaking, but no rules on spacing. I carpooled there with two friends, an hour drive.

      On Saturday my friend who sat in the front seat came down with a horrible flu where he couldn’t get out of bed. His wife had to help him get up to use the bathroom. He couldn’t eat anything and had fevers and chills and body aches and a cough. He was better after 4 days.

      Midway through his illness, I think on Tuesday, I came down with something similar. I had horrible body aches and chills. My thermometer may have been broken because I didn’t register a fever. But I had a deep, deep, pee-my-pants cough that I still haven’t shaken (it may have just turned into seasonal allergies at this point, I don’t know, but that is definitely when it started.) The thing I remember most vividly was the body aches. I could not get comfortable and I hurt all over. I felt exhausted but couldn’t sleep. I called my doctor for testing but she said no one who hadn’t either been to China or had close contact with a confirmed COVID-19 patient was allowed to have a test. She was also extremely dismissive and told me I probably just had the flu (I had a flu shot) and spent the majority of the call telling me not to come to her office. I will be looking for a new doctor when things are somewhat back to normal.

      I kicked my husband out of the bedroom and our shared bathroom for the first 4 days or so but then he decided to take his chances and move back in. He never came down with symptoms. That’s the one thing that makes me doubt I had it. My friend who was so sick is 100% convinced he had it. We are both planning to have antibody testing once it’s widely available and considered reliable.

      • Anon

        PS I haven’t left my house since I was sick except for three curbside pickups in my car. I can’t not cough when I need to cough, and I feel like coughing in public right now would get me strung up.

    • covid positive

      Both my husband and I got it in mid-March. I came down with it first and despite best efforts, gave it to my husband who got sick about 3 days after me. Luckily for both of us it was fairly mild though we had a whole range of symptoms: low grade fever, muscle aches, chills, loss of smell/taste, shortness of breath (but not terrible), coughs, and extreme fatigue. My husband started feeling better about a week after initial symptoms whereas it took me about 10 days. We both got tested at the local urgent care and have since then also gotten antibody tests as part of the plasma donation process (both came back positive). Really hoping we’re immune now…at least for the short-term…

    • Small Law Partner

      I know five people who had confirmed cases (a friend, a co-worker, two clients) and about a dozen others of presumed cases that could not get tested. Everyone has since recovered.
      I was in direct close contact with my co-worker the day before he started to feel ill – worked together in a conference room, shared food, likely hugged, did some high fives, or fist bumps knowing this guy. This was mid-March before the stay-at-home orders. I never got as sick as him, but about a week later I felt so tired I could barely move for a few days, had the worst headache I have ever had, and couldn’t smell/taste very well, but no respiratory symptoms. His wife got the same symptoms a couple days before me, and my husband had the same thing minus the headache a few days after me, so I kind of assume I had it in some sense too.
      That experience makes me really wonder if much more of the population has been exposed than we think at this point. I guess there are a few antibody studies reflecting that.

    • Jules

      My former BIL (my sister’s ex) died of it about a month ago. Age 55, no significant risk factors that I know of (I haven’t seen him in 20 years; they have a young adult son who had been in contact with him on and off, estranged because ex-BIL was a jerk, to be kind). Not in a frontline occupation, really; he ran a wine store and deli in a resort town in upstate Michigan. He was officially diagnosed but was never hospitalized.

    • Anonymous

      i live in a smaller major city. my in laws’ neighbors (a couple) both got it and passed away, they were in their mid 60s. my manager’s immediate family actually had covid sweep through – her mom, dad, aunts, uncles all got it. she did not as she had not visited during whatever event spread it. unfortunately 2 members of the family passed away from it, i think 2-3 were hospitalized but they have recovered. it has taken over a month for recovery but they were also older. we also have a friend in germany whose wife contracted covid and was hospitalized, she is a marathon runner in her 30s. she’s now recovering but it was quite scary especially given that she was always “the fit one”. amazingly he has tested repeatedly negative despite their living together.

    • Essential in Texas

      Yes. My husband had it. We had daily FT visits with the dr to determine if he needed to be admitted to the hospital. He was never admitted. There were 3 days that were really scary, but the best way I can explain it is a long and terrible flu. On day 16….(Sunday – 3 days ago), I started showing symptoms. When I talked to my dr about an hour ago she indicated that the 14 day isolation period is now pro den to be incorrect and you should isolate for 28. All I can say is it really sucks that we have isolated since March 10 and still got it.

    • Curious

      My friend’s grandma in Toronto died of it. She was 100. She had a fever and seemed to get better and then went in her sleep.

      My sister and her fiance (29+30, Chicago) both seem to have it, with my sister having worse symptoms — 2 weeks of low-grade fever, rash, muscle aches. No test, no hospital. Via telemedicine, the family doctor says this is the probable cause.

      My friend went to Europe in February and was hospitalized with a virus when he came back home to Seattle. Didn’t get tested but it was probably COVID.

    • anon

      Chicago. I know about a dozen people who tested positive or were told not to get tested but presume they are positive. Ages ranged from 20s to 60s, men and women. In at least two cases small kids (under the age of 5) were also sick, and while less serious than the parent it was serious enough in the kids to cause daily telemedicine calls and concern. Only one person was hospitalized, thankfully, and she had oxygen support but thankfully did not need a ventilator. Professions of people are stay at home parent, many typical office workers, a couple of social service workers who interacted with the public. Most but not all used public transit, and most were diagnosed right as or shortly after our state got the stay at home order. Geographically these folks were all over the city in terms of neighborhood they lived or worked in. Some had preexisting conditions but all were non-issues for their doctors, such as mild diabetes or mild asthma that was well controlled. There seems to be no rhyme or reason – my friend who is in his 30s and an average guy, no health issues, works out, eats okay, was very very ill, whereas a coworker who is in his 60s and does not work out or eat well or take care of himself as much as I wish, recovered in a few days. Overall I think this is much more widespread than we believe, partly because of the lack of available tests for the early part of the pandemic.

    • Anon

      This thread was very interesting, but I just wanted to point out that if you’re asking people to tell you about people they know with confirmed COVID there’s a bias towards more serious cases. So it can be scary to read so-and-so-30-something-I-know had it and was in the hospital, but until very recently, it was hard to get tested unless you were ill enough to be hospitalized, so all the people with mild and asymptomatic cases wouldn’t know that they had it and in many cases may not even suspect they had it. It was only THIS WEEK that my state even theoretically opened up testing to people who aren’t hospitalized, over 65 or healthcare workers, and according to our local hospital they still don’t have enough tests and continue prioritizing older people and the severely ill for testing.

  4. bummed

    I posted yesterday about being disappointed that a guy I like had sent me a screenshot from a funny dating site interaction. I assumed it definitively meant he wasn’t interested, but I was surprised to read many comments saying not necessarily, and how did I know if I hadn’t expressed direct interest? I thought about it a lot so I wanted to post a followup.

    Because no, I haven’t been direct. I have a habit of playing it cool and trying to not to seem like I didn’t really want things that I don’t end up getting, which I know isn’t always the best approach.

    Some background since it became relevant over the thread yesterday. We met on a dating site 2 years ago, went on dates over a few months but mostly sent long emails because we lived an hour apart. He started seeing someone else but said he’d like to be friends if I was up for it, I said I was willing to try. We continued corresponding until he didn’t respond to one of my emails. I didn’t send another as I figured he was over it. I was disappointed but soon started seeing someone else too. We’re in our 30s, not teenagers.

    After over a year out of touch, he moved nearby recently and sent me an email telling me. Then this crisis happened and we’ve been emailing pretty much like last time, maybe a bit less often. He says how great I am and how good it is to hear from me. It’s lightly flirtatious but I’d call it more like lively banter (no one would be scandalized).

    Does it really make sense to tell him I want to date him? I haven’t seen him in person in 2 years and we’ve been back in touch 2 months over email! It feels a little like saying you want to start planning a wedding after three dates. And if so, how would you phrase it? I’m great at being mildly flirty in a way that doesn’t risk much emotionally, but not good at doing things that risk rejection, or figuring out how to ask something like this in a graceful non-awkward way. I feel like I have the choice between being indirect and being able to save face, or being direct and putting it on the line but not being able to come back from it.  

    At this point, I think I want to be friends even if he’s not interested romantically. (I’m not so far gone that I think it’s impossible, and he’s supportive of my interests/hobbies and an interesting person himself). I don’t want to chase him away by pressuring him to explain his intentions when we only got back in touch recently. I think it’s reasonable to still be feeling it out, and it seems intense to push it.

    Basically, I don’t want to miss out on a possible relationship because I assumed he wasn’t interested, yet I don’t want to blow up a friendship either, especially if it things might happen organically later. Curious about thoughts and especially about possible phrasing if I do say something…

    • Anon

      Not sure where you are geographically, but as restrictions lift, maybe ask if he wants to grab coffee or a drink outside somewhere? I think in person interactions are always best for gauging this – then you can decide if you want to make a move or not (I think in-person interactions are also best for gauging your feelings here too).

      • Cb

        Yes, agreed. But nothing ventured, nothing gained here. I think it’s awesome to get to know someone this way.

      • Anon

        I think your second point is a really good one. OP, before you do either direct or indirect I would definitely get together IRL again to make sure this isn’t all just getting swept up in the unusual circumstances. It would be awful to take a step forward only to get together in person and realize there is no spark there. 2 years is a long time.

    • Ellen

      Look, you might affected by the lonelines of the virus and the isolation we are all going through. I know I am. We understand this. But if you are willing to chance it, why be coy? The guy is still looking for a woman, and who knows, you could be that woman! So lay your cards on the table, and see where it goes. The worst that can happen is that he says he just wants to be friends. However, the BESTthat can happen is the two of you become a couple, hook up, and start having babies before a year is up! Go for it! No one will fault you for being honest and for wanting to get married and have babies, just like I do! YAY!!1

    • Anonymous

      Gently, this is just rehashing yesterday. You’re lying to yourself about being fine just being friends. If you want to date him say “hey I’ve loved reconnecting- are you interested in an in person date when we are allowed to leave our houses?” And then he will say yes or no and you can either enjoy that or move on with your life.

      I think he enjoys emailing with you during this time in which he’s got nothing going on, thinks you’re a great person, and isn’t interested in dating you because he already told you he didn’t want to date you.

      • Cat

        +1 – if the only thing that prevented you from dating in the past is geography, maybe he’s also interested but unsure how to proceed. Just ask. do you really want a pen pal that badly?

      • Anon

        +100

        “especially if it things might happen organically later.”

        That tells me you have a hope they do so you’re never going to be just friends. You’re going to be wondering if any one day is the day that things start to happen “organically.” Also, ‘organically’ isn’t like a slow fade from friendship to realizing you love someone (typically) someone makes a decisive action, and that someone can 100% be you.

    • Airplane.

      No, it doesn’t make sense to tell him you want to date him. This man already chose another woman over you when you first met and asked you if you want to be friends. You don’t. He already knows, you met on a dating site, FFS. If he were interested in you, you would know. Don’t waste any more time on someone who lives 2 hours away and is not pursuing you. I wish the best for you, but I think you need to hear this.

        • Airplane.

          Sorry, I misread that. I still think my point stands. If he wanted to date you, you would know because he would have pursued you/been pursuing you.

        • Never too many shoes...

          Is it still just flirtatious emails? Suggest a zoom cocktail and see if you have any actual chemistry still in a more “real world” setting.

      • Anon

        While I don’t disagree with your sentiment, just to clarify from her post she does say when they initially met he lived an hour away. Honestly, I’m mentally thinking about some of the cities in my town that are an hour away and wondering, if I had met someone when I was single – even if I had been into them – would that have probably fizzled out, b/c an hour each way is kind of a big deal in normal life? Yes.
        And now he lives nearby. So maybe it is as simple as that.
        Granted, few big love stories probably start with, well, at first she just lived too far away, but once geography took it’s course… boom! So perhaps that is the answer right there.

    • Batgirl

      Honestly, I sometimes think that guys bring up other women like that to test the waters and see your reaction. It may mean he doesn’t think of you that way or that he wants to see how you react. You won’t know unless you either get a bit more direct or roll with it and see what it’s like in person. If you really like him, I’d try heavier flirting over email and then an in-person meet up as soon as the shelter in place restrictions are over where you live. But then give it a deadline – if neither of you make a move or say something within two weeks of that first in person encounter, let it go entirely. But you’re both in your 30s, (wo)man up! Say something soon! (But I agree that this is sort of a weird time to so I’d wait till in person).

    • Ribena

      I had a similarly on-the-line email chain with an old friend (M) from high school days. I went on a date with a guy off Hinge (in the second half of February) and after that I mentioned to M that I had met someone who might be promising and that I wasn’t sure if we were angling in a way that I should take into account when thinking about that. It seemed to be the most embarrassment-free way to go about it.

    • Amber

      I would keep emailing him but make plans to get together in person soon – as someone else said, hopefully restrictions will lift soon where you live. Since it has been 2 years since you have seen him, it is a good point that you may not even feel the same chemistry towards him anymore – people can change physically and otherwise in that time period! Good luck and keep us posted! I hope things work out the way that you want them to. There is nothing wrong with maintaining a friendship – who know, he may even have a friend that he could introduce you to – as long as you don’t have unrealistic expectations and let it prevent you from moving forward or seeking out someone else.

    • Anon

      Girl, grow up. Use your words. Stop the endless agonizing. “After this is over, do you want to get a drink sometime?” “Should we start dating again?” It’s not planning a wedding. Jesus.

  5. Anonymous

    I live alone in Manhattan and am so anxious that I don’t leave my apartment, even for walks. I have a hard time even making myself go downstairs to the lobby to pick up my packages. I haven’t seen another person in 2 months. The way I am living is making me miserable and I desperately want to leave, but I don’t have ideal options.

    A friend in a small city nearby offered to take me in, but she is an essential worker and goes to work every other day. She is not frontline, and her work checks temps/requires masks, but it’s obviously possible exposure that I wouldn’t have holed up in my own apartment. If I got sick I would have access to good medical care and I’d be with a good friend.

    Another friend lives in a rural area of NJ and her house is not in good shape (main problem is no hot water right now, needs a repair that can’t happen at the moment). She too offered to take me in. I could deal with the house falling apart, but I’m nervous that the hospitals nearby are not great, if I end up needing one. This friend works from home and likely already had Covid, too. So probably less chance of exposure, but would be worse off if I got very sick. And less comfortable, but that’s less of a priority.

    I’m so stuck figuring out which of these options seems safer or whether I should try to keep toughing it out here…but I’m so depressed and anxious here that it doesn’t feel sustainable. And I can’t imagine conditions being much better here for months and months… I’m not particularly high risk but very scared of getting sick, especially being on my own. I don’t know how to figure out the solution, wondering how others would approach it. I could also try to just live more normally here in NYC (force myself to go out, even try to see friends in parks), but I’m terrified of being sick alone here.
    (And I have started seeing a therapist for the anxiety but it has not made an appreciable difference yet.)

    • Anonymous

      Obvs not New Jersey! Rural NJ can be an hour (good traffic) or more from decent medical care. Bears will be coming out soon. Internet can be bad. My parents have never had cable b/c they are too rural (NJ, go figure). No hot water would make me stabby. A lot of rural cottages are summer places that were never properly winterized and could have all sorts of mold and whatever. “Falling apart” is just bad. And I’m as pro NW NJ as they come, but not this and not for you and not now.

        • Anonymous

          This is not news to people in some counties, but some parts of the year you don’t put your trash out overnight when trash is picked up the next morning. If you do, bears will tear through everything and make a huge mess. And don’t go out walking without vigilantly scanning the horizon and looking for cubs (because the mother is nearby and will kill you or your dog).

          Never go alone on a walk in the woods. Remember: you don’t have to outrun the bear, just the other person.

          Kidding. Kind of. 20 years ago the big issue was hitting a deer with your car. Now pets routinely go missing. You don’t leave side or screen doors open. As soon as it warms up and gets beautiful, the bears ruin it.

          • Ses

            I kind of love this sub-thread of bear warnings because it sounds so bonkers. But honestly I have the same mental list of rules from bear hot-spots in New Hampshire.

          • Anonymous

            i went to college in the middle of NJ and we actually did once have a bear come bumbling into the little downtown. i thnk they were able to tranquilize and re-locate him

    • Shanana

      Also single, also been in my house on work from home for 2+ months, although in Metro Detroit not NYC. Still a hard hit area, but not to the level of NYC/NJ.

      Personally, I have made the decision that it is better for me to stay in my home than go to SIP with other people. Mainly due to the fact I think the disruption from my routine that would be living in a space that’s not mine would be harder on my mental health than isolation. I do think though that you need to start moving to living more normally, while still taking precautions. What I have done, which takes a few weeks to get it all in place: Make sure I have a few homemade masks and a box of rubber gloves on hand. Make sure I have a few small bottle of hand sanitizer. Stock up on things I know I will need when I get sick. Comfort foods, liquids, painkillers. Made sure I knew where my humidifiers were and that they were clean. Made sure I was stocked up on pet food. Did a thorough clean of my house as I am weird and would be freaked out if someone had to come in and it was in too much time at home mess mode. Worked out a plan with friends/family to check in regularly – I also know people who have worked out a hang a sign daily on the door code with a close neighbor where if it doesn’t change, neighbor knows to call your emergency contact.

      Honestly, a lot of it is similar to ways I have worked through periods of despair over being single and all the things that can mean as you get older. Yes, I don’t have a significant other to take care of me, but honestly a lot of people with significant others don’t get cared for. And it is hard to get over the feeling sorry for yourself hump. Believe me, I get it. So I do extra things for myself to in some ways over engineer parts of my life to accommodate that. I have been sick alone. Not Covid, but really freaking can’t leave my bed, have to rest if I walk more than 5 feet sick, and it sucks, but it would have sucked with basically anyone other than maybe my mom there.

    • Anon

      I think you need treatment for anxiety – not a place to stay necessarily. That might help, but your anxiety seems to be overwhelming you and making it so you can’t even do things that are deemed safe (go for a walk outside).

      • Anonymous

        Thanks, yeah I’m trying. But it’s been almost 2 months and while I like the therapist i don’t think I feel even a tiny bit less anxious.

        • anon

          At a time when I had severe anxiety (including some agoraphobia and frequent intense panic attacks) therapy was not enough. I had to pair therapy with medication before the therapy could help. I was just too keyed up. I eventually dropped the medication. But you may want to get on something.

          • Anonymous

            No, never been in this situation before, haven’t asked about it but I guess I should.

          • Carrie

            Ahh…. Medication will likely be very effective to get you through this time. It is kind of amazing. Chances are very high that once things settle down, you start going out safely with meds in your system, and you form better coping strategies with your therapist that you will be able to taper off your meds in time. Or you may realize… oh my God. I feel so different…. so amazing…. and you keep the meds for awhile.

            I just realized that my morning caffeine was literally throwing my anxiety into a crazy tailspin during the day, and once it wore off, I would feel “normal” again at night. Today I held the coffee and am drinking tea and it is shockingly better. So be careful with caffeine too. When your anxiety is high, caffeine can push you over the edge. And when you feel that anxiety peaking…. EXERCISE!!

        • Anon

          Are you on medication? This is what anti-anxiety medication is made for – situations where your anxiety has gotten out of control and you feel like therapy is not helping as fast as you want it to. Medication is a game-changer for a lot of people and it doesn’t have to be a “I’ll be taking this forever” situation.

          I would not go live somewhere with no hot water, at a time like this or any other time.

        • cbackson

          CBT plus medication was lifesaving for me when I was really struggling with anxiety.

        • Anon

          Is your therapist a Cognitive Behavioral Therapist (CBT) ? Sometimes regular talk therapy does not work for people, but CBT has a lot of studies that shows its affective for anxiety.

          • PolyD

            +1
            I had maybe 6 sessions with a therapist ~17 years ago, and she taught me some CBT techniques, and I still use things I learned from it. I didn’t like that therapist much (probably why I didn’t stick with it) but the CBT was helpful. I think you can actually buy CBT workbooks, which might also be helpful to you.

            And, I’ve started doing Yoga with Adrienne’s 30-day program and I’m finding it quite comforting. I’m very anti-woo, but she’s the right level of soothing with just a little bit of woo-woo that makes me laugh. It’s nice to have a regular thing to do every day, too.

      • Ellen

        I agree with this. I recommend you stay in the city, b/c you are one of millions of single NYers living here so you are NOT alone. Besides, it will become better once they do testing and antebody testing you can venture out again. Remember, you also have your virtual family here at Corporette, and the HIVE is here to support you too. So even tho you are anxius, (we all are), we will prevail and beat this thing. Afterward, we can meet for a drink (at a safe distance, of course), and mabye even meet some decent men to distract us! YAY!!!!!

    • Anonymous

      Neither of these options make any sense. Start leaving your apartment today. Put a mask on, put hand sanitizer in your pocket. Once you get outside, sanitize, and then go for a long walk. That is dramatically less risky than either of the bad options you presented.

      • Anon

        + 10000000. Yes! You do not have to completely blow up your living situation to be happier. Small incremental changes would make you much happier. Go for a walk! Go to a grocery store with a mask on and see other humans! Then wash your hands when you get home. You can do this! (Possibly with the help of some excellent anxiety meds.)

      • LaurenB

        Yeah, honestly it’s a good idea to get outside once a day for at least a half hour walk, weather permitting. That is what is keeping my city apartment-bound kids sane. They plan their walk and then call one another or me and chat to make the time go. Really, don’t stay inside like you are. It IS ok to go to the grocery store as long as you practice precautions.

    • Flats Only

      Stay where you are, ask your therapist for medication for your anxiety, and take a few walks. You’ll see other people from a distance, and perhaps even exchange greetings! It will be wonderful.

      As for being sick alone, can you prepare by having easy food stocked up (soups, snacks, etc.), thermometer and pulse oximeter (both available via Amazon), cold/flu medications, pedialyte, etc. Also figure out who you might call if you become severely ill – friend, neighbor, co-worker who lives nearby. That way you’ll know if you do get sick you are ready and can take care of yourself. A little preparedness can help your peace of mind.

    • anon

      Hey, I live in Chicago by myself and here is what I have been doing. (caveat, i don’t have any kind of diagnosed anxiety, so not sure how helpful this will be). I have worked really hard to get my mental mindset into one that I my goal is to minimize my chance of getting/spreading covid, not feel trapped into 100% risk avoidance. I have been trying to think through a week ahead to figure out: what packages will i be getting on what days, am I going grocery shopping this week. My current comfort zone is going out 3 times a week, so I try to combine those things. I go out for a walk on a day i have packages come in, getting packages on way home. I have a routine i am comfortable with.. ear-buds in, phone/everything in pockets, wash hands, face mask on before I leave, wait for empty elevator, go out. I generally go out for a walk long enough for a podcast or two and I pick streets I know aren’t busy. Come back in.. shoes off, set everything down, wash hands, sanitize anything i feel like i need to.

    • Anon

      OP I have the same anxieties as you but you definitely should stay in your place. Do not go live with someone who is in and out of the home when you’re not; and do not go live in a rural place that isn’t even comfortable. I do what the Chicago poster above says though not nearly as much or as well. Basically I go grocery shopping once every 2 weeks, sometimes 3 weeks. That’s the only time I go out. So I stack everything up; that’s the day I’ll also go check the mail/pick up packages. Last week after picking up groceries I decided to go for a drive (weather was cool enough that the groceries were fine) so I got out for a half hour that way. I get what you’re saying — for those of us with fears apartments are hard. It’s not like breezing out of your house 26 times a day for a walk when you have to go thru hallways, elevators, and garages to get out. But I find a routine helps.

    • Anne

      My friend who lives alone has started doing a lot of virtual volunteering — she’s working as treasurer for a local food pantry type group and helping contact people to encourage them to fill out the census. I think it’s helped a lot — she’s connected to other people and of use to them. Maybe think of one or two causes you care about and can volunteer for without leaving your home? And go on a very careful walk. My elderly parents are doing it (with a lot of caution!).

  6. Anon for this

    WWYD?

    I have a freeze on my credit. I got an actual letter in the mail purporting to be from Synchrony Bank informing me my application for a Lowe’s card was denied due to the credit freeze. I’m having trouble figuring out what I do with this information – do I need to report it further? How? It’s not obvious from Equifax anyway. (I’m hesitant to trust any information in the letter itself as it could actually be the scam, rather than the purported application for credit… as Equifax doesn’t show the attempt when I check my account.)

    • Anon for this

      Gah, in case it wasn’t clear… the Lowe’s application, if it in fact occurred, was not by me!

    • CountC

      The system is working as it should, it blocked what appears to be a fraudulent attempt to open an account in your name that you did not initiate. Continue to keep the freeze on your accounts and monitor. There’s nothing else that you can do – at least not as far as I am aware.

        • Anonymous

          When a similar thing happened to me, I called the card issuer to report the application as fraudulent, then changed my password with the retailer involved.

    • Anon

      Sorry, it’s a little unclear, but when you say you have a freeze on your credit, do you mean that in the past you proactively put a freeze on your credit to prevent exactly what was attempted from being seen to conclusion (in which case, great, it seems like it worked!)? Or the freeze happened unbeknownst to you?
      Assuming the former, I would just make sure you have a similar set up at all (3?) major credit agencies. If you haven’t pulled your free credit report for the year, I would definitely do that to double check that everything else looks in order. Otherwise the wise hive might have more for you.

      • Anonome

        Four, actually, don’t forget Innovis! They have a lot of data for how “under the radar” they are.

      • Anon for this

        OP here – I put the freeze on my accounts last year out of precaution. Experian, Equifax, and Transunion. If there are others I’m missing please advise!

    • AFT

      If it was stemming from an actual identity theft: If you started a police report about the identity theft, forward the info to the officer on the case. similarly, if you have a credit monitoring service, make sure they’re aware of it.
      I see now that you put the freeze on as a precaution, so not sure you need to do anything with it. My experience was from an actual identity theft – and still, the response to a similar situation was “great, the freeze is doing what it’s supposed to!” You may want to confirm that Lowe’s is treating this as an identity theft situation and erasing the credit pull (if they conducted one?) from your record.

      • anon

        You should call them to report it as fraud. Process working as intended. There should be no inquiry.

    • Anon

      Just fyi, Synchrony Bank had a weird email error last year (or maybe early this year? what is time) where they sent out all these emails to customers who already had cards that made it seem like they were running new credit checks and stuff. I could not for the life of me figure out why I got this email from them and thought somebody was trying to open new credit cards in my name and then I realized I had once opened an Old Navy credit card that is through Synchrony Bank. I freaked out and froze my credit with all three bureaus and then a few hours later they sent out an email explaining the mistake that had happened.

      • Anony

        I got the same email from Victoria’s Secret congratulating me on my new card, when I’ve had a card for years and years.

  7. Just ranting about myself.

    Ugh I do this every day. I like my job I just am a night owl and like my me time too. So I stay up super late doing god knows what’s, but then I know I would
    be less tired and in a better mood during the day if I got more sleep. I’m not sure if it’s better now with no commute (so I can sleep in)!but I think it’s actually worse because there’s no obvious signal for “at work now” vs “at home now”.

    I know how to fix this, it’s just that doing it . . . is rough. I am not a morning person.

    • Anon

      Same problem here. My natural sleep cycle is going to sleep between 12 and 1 and waking up between 8 and 9; I default to this whenever I’m on vacation. Right now, even with intentionally getting outside every day and getting plenty of exercise, I think because I never “go to work” my body seems to think I’m on vacation and I can’t fall asleep before 12:30…which is a problem because I need to get up at 6 to “go to work” every day and I am one of those “I need a minimum of 7 hours of sleep” people. I have tried lots of things to get my body clock to reset itself but nothing has worked yet; I am about to try melatonin which I haven’t had great experiences with in the past.

      The other thing that is affecting my daily energy level is that I am having crazy dreams every night and when I wake up, even if I have been down for 7+ hours, I feel like I haven’t slept. Anyone with experience, does melatonin change your dreaming pattern?

      • Ses

        I have this weird-dreams response to melatonin, and it is a common side-effect. I tend to keep my dosage very low (<.5 mg, which is small in relation to commonly sold sizes, but in-line with studies of successful use) and not take it every night. Also strive to get more than 8 hours if you're a 7-8 hour person usually, because – anecdotally – melatonin increases that number for a lot of people.

      • Anon

        I’m going to bed at a normal time, but then instead of getting up at 6 or 6:30 like I normally would, I go back to sleep, start another REM cycle, and then can’t wake up before 8, which is when I need to start working. It’s killing me. I need to actually get out of bed when I wake up naturally.

    • Anony

      Can you shift your work hours? I’ve shifted mine to 9-5, going to bed at 11 and getting up between 6-7, and I’m SO much happier. My co-workers know I’m available if needed before 9 but I don’t sign on Skype/computer until then. Is that a possibility for you?

      In addition, I ‘trick’ myself into work v home time even though I don’t leave – mornings, I put on day leggings and nice shirt/sweater then after work at 5, I change into my normal evening lounge clothes. It’s been an easy way to shift my thinking and turn on/off work brain.

    • Carmen Sandiego

      This is me! Every. Single. Day! I’m like, “oh, I’ll wake up early to settle in, meditate, whatever, before jumping into work.” Then, next thing I know it’s 2 am and I’m still up reading (or whatever) and then sleep til 9-9:15 and have to hop on work right away. I am trapped in this cycle! (Sorry, no advice, but commiseration, you’re not alone!)

    • Anonymous

      I feel you. My BF is on second shift (2 pm to 11 pm). When I’m going to the office, I basically don’t get to see him during the week. But now that I’m home, I can do all my morning stuff (exercise, shower, make breakfast) throughout the day. I’ve been rolling out of bed at like 8:30 every day so I’m online by 9. My lunchtime is much more productive because I’m showering or exercising or something – which actually makes me feel more energized for the afternoon. I’m kind of digging the new schedule tbh.

    • No Longer Anon

      Same. I was doing OK before COVID but everything is screwed up now. Couple of ideas:
      Start getting ready for bed early. Like, 7. Try to be in bed by 8:30 or 9. You then have an hour or 90 minutes to screw around if you want. Set a timer and when it goes off, turn off the light. No matter what you’re doing.
      The most important thing for me is to not have my phone in bed. I have an armchair in my bedroom I sit in at night to do some medical treatments and I plug in my phone next to it and then go get in bed. I can read but I rarely read for more than 30 min at night before I doze off and then turn off the light. When it’s a good night, I plug in my phone by 9 so even if I read for an hour I can get 8 hours of sleep if I have to be up by 6.

      Other things that apparently work for other people: have something you’re excited for the next morning (good breakfast, coffee, etc). Melatonin or sleepy time tea or something like that. Reducing caffeine (I made cold brew yesterday and it turns out I can’t have any after lunch or I’m up into ungodly hours. Whoops.)

  8. Calling 'Rettes in customer voice / product design

    Good morning!

    Long shot, but does anyone work in a role where you’re trying to get insights into your client’s needs and turn those into ideas for new products or enhancements?

    How did you learn your skills? Are there professional organizations you’d recommend, or courses?

    I have no background in this and my role is shifting in this direction.

    Thank you!

    • former consultant

      Hmmmm. I’ve had a few roles like this but I don’t think I ever took a class or anything, other than the firm’s training. Just some tips then:

      – Be Patient.
      – Ask open ended questions and let them speak. Kind of the opposite of a politician’s response, sometimes they won’t answer your question but will tell you other useful things
      – Ask them to walk you through the process themselves, exactly what they do, and ask lots of why/how questions.

      The key in all this is to use their expertise so 1) they don’t feel like you’re steamrolling over them and 2) so you get a bigger picture than the immediate problem they’ve told you about.

      The other big thing for me is show, don’t tell. People often don’t know exactly what they want or how it will translate over. If possible show them a preview before starting a project, check in with them as its developing so that if they have an issue they didn’t vocalize, they’ll be able to say something when they see it being made.

      • OP

        Thank you — this is very helpful. Maybe some resources on how to do the listening end of consulting would help me.

    • Anony

      When I was in the promotional products industry, we took classes through PPAI. Maybe not the same as what you will be doing, but customers would call and say “we need stuff to hand out at trade shows” and the reps would then have to figure out what product would be best for the event, industry, company, attendees, etc. My role was a buyer so I had to choose what products for the website that our reps could sell, that companies would want, and that people would like to have. You’d be surprised how much work goes into those logo BIC pens! I’m actually really glad to have worked that job; I learned so many skills that have transferred to other positions.

    • Anonymous

      I am in a field where I need similar skills on a regular basis. What has been super helpful in the past few years is becoming certified in LUMA design thinking methods. The certification itself, is just a nice to have right now (super recognizable at my org) but the experience in actually using the methods has been amazing. Even better, I took the certification course with people from my org (my “customers”) so I got to see first hand how ALIEN these methods feel to them. So it was learning for me plus anthropological research as well :-)
      I use these skills on a regular basis. Like in everyday life now. Super helpful.

    • anon

      I’ve worked pretty extensively in marketing doing “voice of customer” research in manufacturing/product.
      —Totally agree with the previous commenter about asking open ended questions and letting the client/user speak. You want to have little or no influence over what they tell you. Oftentimes, I’d start a project thinking I’d know the direction it was going to go and be totally surprised by the feedback.
      —That also means taking a backseat of sorts to your company, meaning if they aren’t happy with your product/service or start talking how much better they like the competition, that you really listen to what they’re saying and not get defensive of your own product/service. Every interaction can be an opportunity to improve.
      —Find a way to understand what is truly a necessary product enhancement. Just because Joe in Minnesota thinks that the X should have a Y, doesn’t mean other users think that’s remotely necessary. We’d do on-site visits to gather firsthand, primary research, and then take those insights and do surveys to see how they scaled with a larger, more diverse user base.
      Unfortunately I don’t have any courses to recommend, but I think a good place to start could be reading about focus group moderation. Moderators are experts on framing questions, asking the right questions and keeping their subjects focused on the product. Those skills could be really helpful even for those who don’t do actual focus groups.

    • Anonymous

      I do this professionally, as a consultant (interview clients for product design).
      Are your clients consumers or B2B? Is it a product or service or tech?

      Generally, keep all questions open ended. Don’t lead with too strict an interview guide or you will only get answers to the questions you ask. Eg. “Is ABC a problem?” doesn’t allow them to share that “D” is their biggest problem.

      • LaurenB

        What are the parts of X [product, service, process] that you are most satisfied with / least satisfied with, and why.
        What are your frustrations when you sit down to do / work with X. What could go better for you, and how would you know that to be better.
        What are the signals to you that [X] has worked really well.
        What’s a good experience with [X] look like? A bad experience?
        When you have identified that [X} isn’t working well, how have you coped with it / worked around it? How well has that worked for you?

  9. notinstafamous

    DH wore my cashmere gloves last night and stretched them out. Can I shrink these back somehow?

    • Panda Bear

      Depends on how stretched out, but if you hand-wash and then put them in the dryer on low heat/gentle cycle, it might work.

    • Mal

      You can reshape knits – you get them damp, not wet, and kind a mold them into the shape you like on a towel – you can pin them in place – and allow them to dry. Knitters do this a lot.

    • MagicUnicorn

      Soak them in tepid water until they are wet through (don’t agitate them or they could felt), squish (don’t wring) the extra water out, and lay them on a towel to dry completely.

      The dryer idea may work, but it may also felt them into teeny child’s gloves if you leave them in too long, so I would save that method for if the one above doesn’t work

  10. blueberries

    Anyone have a shower curtain for a clawfoot tub they like? Do magnets on the bottom work? I’m getting tired of the curtain blowing in on me from both sides.

    • Anonymous

      I get the fabric ones from Target — a thin nylon one for the inner curtain (with magnets) and a pretty cloth one for outside. I can was the nylon one to keep it from getting skunky and alternate between two. They last for a while and don’t have the plastic stench that the PVC ones do (I know people have washed those but my washer shreds them somehow, so overall cheaper to buy the $10 nylon ones).

    • shanana

      This just brought on a full body flashback to the house I rented with a clawfoot tub and shower as the only bathroom. The magnets help, but all it really taught me is clawfoot tubs in the modern day belong where they can be separate from the shower. Because no one wants to be wrapped in a shower curtain while showering. I will say the biggest help was finding a larger curtain rod for above the tub. That and the magnet bottom cloth shower liner were the only thing that made it tolerable.

      • Cat

        oh so much this. Plus the relatively curved and narrow bottom makes it annoying to stand in. We’re replacing ours as there is no possible bathroom configuration where it can be separate from the shower.

        There are companies that manufacturer glass panels that make a U-shape around the shower end of the tub, but the downsides are (1) cost, (2) you have to get in the tub to turn on the shower unless one side swings open, in which case it will eventually leak, and (3) there is still spray at the far end of the tub unless you have the world’s weakest showerhead.

  11. Anon

    Someone from my apartment building has been practicing some sort of high jumps every day starting between 10-11pm and ending shortly after midnight. I’ve discussed with this with my upstairs neighbor and my downstairs neighbor, but they all say that it is not them, and we can’t figure out where the noise is coming from. I’ve tried knocking on the wall whenever this jumping noise happens, but this person just ignores my knocks and keeps jumping. What can I do at this point if I can’t figure out who it is to begin with?

    • Anon

      Ha, is it the poster from a few months ago that was defending doing her building-shaking jumping jacks in her apartment??
      But, seriously, that sucks, especially given the hour. Can you leave a nice note by the exit door explaining you are sure they have no idea, but you can hear them, it’s late, please help?

    • anon a mouse

      Can you walk in the halls when it happens to try to better pinpoint it? It might be above you but one apartment over, given the weird ways that sound travels in buildings?

    • Small Law Partner

      If you have a few neighbors who hear it, maybe each walk the halls and try to pinpoint it and report to each other? It can be hard to tell where noise is coming from in buildings.

      It is also possible if not probably that someone isn’t being truthful. Some people just suck, and you might need to catch them in the act somehow. I tried to figure out where a slamming noise was coming from for months (repetitive heavy door slamming between midnight and 4am – enough to wake us up and rattle the windows). It sure sounded like it was right above me, but my upstairs neighbors denied even being awake at the times I heard the noise and acted super insulted I could even think of accusing them, touting their “quiet lifestyle.” Also talked to others in the building who denied it. One night I was so annoyed when it happened that I ran outside in my bathrobe and lo and behold my upstairs neighbor was smoking on his balcony. He still denies it was him but it has magically stopped even since I caught him. He then decided to do construction work in the middle of the night, including operating loud machinery and lots of hammering. Another neighbor caught him doing this and it magically stopped, even though he likes to send emails to the entire HOA about how his neighbors harass him and he wants to sue us. It’s really great ha.

  12. Anonymous

    follow-on questions: au pair lives with them — how did she get it? and there are kids? do you know how they were affected (and ages)?

    • small town girl

      this is such a weird fixation.

      au pairs have lives. they aren’t chained in the house all the time. They leave, have days off, have friends and social lives

      • Anonymous

        That’s interesting — my friend had an au pair and found that representations re driving were often not accurate at all, so their au pair was with them 24/7 often (in a city, but in a neighborhood where bus service is for center-city commuters and a car is seen as much safer b/c of higher-speed busy roads that you’d have to cross to get anywhere out of the development).

    • Away Game

      If I were the au pair, and my employer was discussing my health with others in this way, I’d be livid. And seriously consider whether I want to work for this family.

      • Anon

        And if I was friends with someone who tried to blame their COVID on the au pair with any level of negativity, without SOLID evidence that it was true (like, the au pair just got off an infected cruise ship or something) it would make me see that friend in a new light.

        • Anonymous

          If the entire family has been home but the au pair has been socializing, that’s the most likely source.

          • Anon

            I mean, yes, if the family was in a shelter in place location, and the family was all taking it super seriously, but the au pair was not and out socializing anyway, then that would probably meet my definition of being SOLIDly sure that it was likely her, so that doesn’t really argue against what I’m saying. I would not think poorly of someone that complained about that scenario. But I didn’t get that from the original post. It seemed more like she just happened to come down with symptoms first. But anyone will come down with symptoms before little kids, even if the kids are the culprit.

  13. Tailored/fitted Joggers

    What are your favorite soft but tailored/skinny joggers in neutral colors?

  14. Anonymous

    Lawyers or former lawyers who have switched to either a non-law career or a radically different area of law, talk to me about how you decided what you wanted to do and how you made the switch. I am in a very niche area of litigation and while I love my firm and the people I work with, I don’t want to do what I’m doing anymore, and I don’t really want to work firm hours anymore. I’ve been in practice 9 years (though did something else for the first three or so until I got this job), so moving to another area of law at this point is challenging. I’m at the point where I’ll be up for partner either this year or next and have a decent shot at making it (well, did pre-pandemic; now, who knows), but I really don’t want it. I interviewed for a couple of positions with that state earlier this year, but didn’t get those. How do I a) decide what I want to do and b) manage to make the switch? I briefly worked in politics right after law school and while I enjoyed it at the time, I don’t think I would in the current political climate. Other than that, I have no real employment experience outside of law.

    • Anon

      Being a partner puts you in a really good position for in-house GC or high-level political positions, which you can try for on the state level or a federal agency related to your area of expertise.

    • Lucille Two

      I was in litigation (non-equity partner) and went from the firm to an in-house position with a client. I hated all the non-litigation things that job entailed. I ended up at an insurance company in my somewhat narrow field and am now very happy managing litigation. What do you want to actually do all day, as opposed to what kind of law? I divide law into two categories; before the ish hits the fan and after. Which category do you want to be in – advising clients and setting up policies and compliance programs to avoid it hitting the fan, or cleaning up after it does? The latter might involve writing appellate briefs if you don’t want to do the everyday litigation. But beware of going from litigation to an in-house position if you’re not prepared for transactional stuff that doesn’t interest you.

    • JHC

      This may out me, but I was a litigator for 16 years. I knew I wanted out at about year 4 but didn’t know what else I’d do. Over time, I sat on the board of a community college foundation and loved the work we did and the idea of somehow moving over into education. My thought was maybe as an adjunct upon retirement, but through those contactsI eventually came across a job heading up HR for a large public school district on my city and I love it. So, my advice would be to think about where your interests might be taking you and lean into it.

  15. Fluff

    Our office is reopening — yay! [We are essential, but sent everyone home in March.] Schools are still closed, so will be trading on-off with spouse (allowed, work gets that this is an issue and will be at least over the summer). But now I have to wear work clothes when I go in (previously, it was weekend attire). 2 months of sports bras and athleisure and crocs has been heaven. Some clothes fit, but I have winter clothes and corduroy out and summer items in storage, so who knows??? Ugh. And yay! And ugh. I really, really hope that my favorite lunch take-out spot is open b/c I want to help them. And my masks arrived yesterday.

    Also: I have a ton of hair now. It’s like . . . if I were a man, I’d have the best man bun hair ever, but on me, it seems very much trying for hair that should be Pageant Hair and yet I can’t rock that (and a wet bun doesn’t seem to be a good office look). I feel like I am just leaving undergrad, in the fashion department again. No haircuts until close to June in my state (and the color people will likely get all of the first appointments; I just need to get a chop before I have enough extra to donate to locks of love).

    • Anonymous

      I wear a wet bun every day and have for years. It’s fine. They don’t pay me to be pretty

    • Ribena

      Can you do a French braid? I know it’s a bit 90s but when I’m in a ‘I just have too much hair!’ Phase it’s the best way to take it and not have to worry about it all day. People usually comment on it in a ‘I can’t do that to myself!’ way rather than a negative one.

      (Not sure why my name has gone in all caps, promise I’m not shouting at you all)

      • Anonymous

        Ha! I can do a french braid on other people but I can never get it just right on my own hair. And my hair is fine, so it takes a lot of spray and pins to keep it from slipping out from even doing a flight of stairs or walking. It’s like Bad Caroline Ingalls?

    • Anon

      What about one of those fancy knotted or twisted headbands (Anthro has a million)? Pile it up into a bun or high pony and then top with the headband. Makes it look more pulled-together but is still totally low-effort.

    • Airplane.

      I also hate the look, but have seen others pull it off in a way that I think looks good. I prefer quality high waist leggings for any situation one would wear a jogger. Something about the looser waistband and cuffs of joggers just reads really frumptastic on me.

      • Anon

        Joggers were not ‘in style’ back in the ’80s and ’90s, but they were very common and unattractive athletic wear for women. They were designed for men and then imported over into women’s sizes, but the style still only looks good on those who have slim hips and very long legs.

        I really wish the fashion industry would let these die as women’s apparel.

    • Jeffiner

      I’ve never been able to figure out leggings. I can wear them to work out, but can’t do it on the weekends or in quarantine life. I think its because I have a very long torso, so t-shirts rarely make it to my hips. Joggers look better with the short t-shirts than leggings.

    • NOLA

      I don’t wear leggings much anymore. I have some skinny joggers that I like but I’m not trying to wear them for professional wear. I mostly wear them around the house.

    • Cat

      You are not alone. They give me a droopy rear and obscure the nice shape of my calves while clinging to every bit of my hip and thigh. Pass!

    • AFT

      As a pear/x shape, joggers are strictly at home wear for me. The style does not flatter my seat or legs.

      • Ellen

        You are just like me–and I could NOT have said it better. My tuchus does not look good in joggers. Period.

    • Anon

      I think the point of styles like this is to show that you are so tall and fit that you still look good in broadly unflattering clothing. (This isn’t an objection; there are people who definitely can and do pull it off. I am a very short hourglass and definitely cannot!)

    • Ribena

      I have big hips and very muscly calves – leggings at least make it obvious that there’s some muscle and I don’t look like the marshmallow man. I wear joggers at home when it’s cold, sometimes over leggings. I think of them as daytime pyjamas.

    • No Longer Anon

      I won’t wear them out except to walk the dog at night just before bed, but I do love them for lounging at home or sleeping. They’re my favorite type of winter PJ pants, and I like the Uniqlo ones for summer PJ pants when I want pants, not shorts. I do love the Betabrand “sweatpant yoga pants”, but I’m not paying $80 for joggers….

      A couple of my male colleagues have been known to wear fancy jogger pants to work and it’s not horrible, but I think it’s a very specific look that some guys can do.

  17. anon

    Superficial fashion question…but are AGL flats considered classic and/or stylish? I’ve heard people ranting about them for ages and when they went on sale 40% off last week at Nordstrom I splurged on a pair. They haven’t arrived yet, but I realized…in 2 years of working in NYC (though, not in law) I’ve never seen another woman wearing these shoes. If they are as comfortable as everyone says and I LOVE them I will keep them regardless, but just curious what other people think when they see them? Do they scream old lady?

    • Airplane.

      Which ones do you have? The captoe ones read a bit dated to me, but everything else I’m pulling up for AGL flat at Nordstrom looks fine. Range from a lewk to not super noticable for office.

    • Anonymous

      If you travel, they might also be a good option for cobblestone streets, hellish airport connections, etc. I keep a pair of comfy flats for that.

    • SC

      Fashion-wise, I think AGL shoes are a bit dowdy, and definitely not stylish. However, they’re pretty standard office shoes for conservative workplaces, and omg, they are so, so comfortable. I have a pair of heels and a pair of flats, and I wear them when my feet need a break or aim likely to be on my feet all day or my fashion just doesn’t matter because I’ll get into the office and close my door.

    • Anonymous

      they are not fashionable, but certainly office appropriate if that is your vibe. they look comfy.

    • anonchicago

      I wear my cap toe ones a lot and see other women wearing them as well. They are more structured and IMO more professional than typical ballet flats like Cole Haans.

    • Anon

      I don’t they’re fashionable or not – they’re just standard conservative office wear (which, by its nature, isn’t super trendy)

    • Anon

      I think you haven’t noticed people wearing them because they’re pretty discreet – no big Tory Burch logo or even the Ferragamo bow. They’re just well made flat to low heels shoes that don’t hurt your feet.

      I don’t feel like the cap toe is dated. That’s a classic style in my book.

  18. Vacuum recs?

    My vacuum broke, and I need to get a new one. I’m thinking of splurging on a cordless one. Does anyone have one they love? Or recommendations on where to do research? Anyone think a cordless vacuum wasn’t worth the increased price after purchasing one?

    • Housecounsel

      I bought a cordless Shark Rocket PetPro at Target a couple of weeks ago, and I love it. I don’t know what took me so long.

      • Anonia

        Also just got this one, and it’s disgusting and strangely satisfying to see how much more dirt and hair it can collect.

      • Anon

        Which model did you get? I’m looking at Target and there are lots of shark rockets. There’s a pro for $249 but I’m not seeing a pet pro.

      • Essential in Texas

        Yes. My husband had it. We had daily FT visits with the dr to determine if he needed to be admitted to the hospital. He was never admitted. There were 3 days that were really scary, but the best way I can explain it is a long and terrible flu. On day 16….(Sunday – 3 days ago), I started showing symptoms. When I talked to my dr about an hour ago she indicated that the 14 day isolation period is now pro den to be incorrect and you should isolate for 28. All I can say is it really sucks that we have isolated since March 10 and still got it.

    • Patricia Gardiner

      We have a Dyson stick V-something that I loooove. It was so worth it. There was a long thread here recently about cordless stick vacuums and how great they are!

    • Vicky Austin

      We just got a new Shark and it’s a winner. We have a very sheddy Lab and are hardly hairless ourselves, but our carpets have never looked so new. I’m headed home on my lunch break to see said Lab so will report back with the model then.

      • Vicky Austin

        SharkNinja Shark Navigator Deluxe for Carpet and Bare Floor, according to my husband.

  19. Deedee

    What new hobbies are you all taking up in quarantine? With travel, especially international, out for the foreseeable future, I’m in need of new things to do. I normally LOVE planning for vacation itineraries, including reading books about my destination in advance. I like to cook complicated recipes and have been doing that, along with running, hiking, and yoga. I don’t have a ton of patience for crafts, but I’m wondering if that might help fill the at-home activity hole I have?

    • Ribena

      Lots more cooking and baking, and have remembered how much I enjoy food – making it, sharing it with others (which I can’t currently do beyond leaving goodies on local friends’ stoops), and writing about it. So I’ve started a foodie Instagram and a weekly foodie newsletter (which is now linked from my name).

    • Pink

      Working out, trying new recipes for dinner and baking. Also tanning during my lunch break and going for walks. Those aren’t really hobbies I guess. I don’t have a ton of free time with a 3 y/o but that’s what I’m enjoying doing as of late.

    • Anonymous

      I have started dying fabric with random things from the kitchen — such as tea, coffee, berries. I started with stained t-shirts that really could no longer be worn in public.

        • Anonymous

          It was about the only thing I could think of that would be useful and I had everything in the house to do it. I like seeing how things come out. Some good, some really not — but nothing lost when it doesn’t turn out. So far I really like about two-thirds of what I have dyed.

    • Anon

      Sourdough bread baking. Ask me about my starter! (That’s more of a warning than a suggestion.)

    • Anon

      What about digging into the research part of travel in ways that work with staying at home? Pick a place and read some interesting novels set there, look up local recipes to try, “visit” on Atlas Obscura or Google Maps, do a puzzle with the place as the setting, find TV or movies set in that place (easier than ever with Netflix! so much good foreign streaming content).

      I know it’s not the same as actually getting to go anywhere, but it does help shake things up a bit!

      • Davis

        Great idea! There’s a newsletter from my public library called “Armchair Traveler” and yours may have something similar. Reading about the history, art, culture, food, politics, etc about the place you’re planning may be fun and get you ready for travel returning!

    • Senior Attorney

      Cooking and baking — I’m being a lot more ambitious than I have been in the past and it’s going pretty well. I was very proud that my third try at baguettes came out just great! Also have finally followed through on our longtime plans to make trivets and coasters out of all those wine corks.

    • anon

      I finally made homemade cinnamon rolls for the first time, and why haven’t I been doing this all along? It went much better than I anticipated. I bake quite a bit, but was always intimidated by yeast.

      Other than that, I’m gardening more, but that has more to do with the weather than the quarantine!

      Side note: I mean actually gardening with plants and soil and water.

      • Anon

        Haha I have also been that-kind-of-gardening more! Not the other kind – husband and I are getting on each other’s nerves.

    • EM84

      I do a short workout every workday around 1pm (this is the only thing that helps me regain mental focus; before I started doing this, I could not concentrate and was not able to work in afternoon hours effectively), be it 20mins spinning or weight lifting or cardio (I use Les Mills app). I also bought a sewing machine and am learning to sew (it is a great learning experience – I got used to the fact that I feel like complete failure when I am trying new sewing projects and then mastering it after a few hours; also, the online sewing community is great). I started to read for pleasure again, intentionally picking fiction, which helps me to “travel virtually” through the stories. Surprisingly, I stopped watching Netflix and movies since lockdown started in my country (2m ago).

    • Anonymous

      i have actually really been indulging in my homebody impulses and enjoying it. here’s what my non-work time is filled with:
      – yoga and barre classes – i like shorter ones sprinkled throughout the day just to move
      – reading! fiction, historical nonfiction, gardening books, new cook books
      – cooking and baking (cinnamon rolls, no knead bread, cookies from scratch!, lasagna, mapo tofu, ravioli)
      – gardening – both veggie and ornamental
      – random home projects that we have just been putting off. i listen to audiobooks or podcasts and have been touch up painting, spackling, putting in new vents for gross older ones, wood filling nail holes and re-painting
      – cleaned out our garage and it is sooo organized and clean right now. we can actually get a car inside
      – have been talked to my mom and friends much more frequently on the phone
      – playing with my cricut and making some vinyl window decor
      – put in lawn edging along a new flowerbed and planted a new bed from splitting existing plants
      – met all of my neighbors and chat with them way more regularly over the fence
      – started a stretching and mobility routine
      – ive started taking long baths 2-3x a week while watching trashy tv with epsom salts
      – im learning how to play bridge and mahjong
      – knitting a baby blanket for my friend!

  20. Jo March

    I just finished my first year of graduate school! I am lucky enough that my internship can be done virtually, so I’m in a perfect place now to veg out for a bit and relax. I want to watch some fun TV! I have Netflix and the cheapest Hulu (so none of the add-ons that give access to more shows). Anyone have suggestions to share? I live alone and scare easily, so nothing remotely dark or creepy, please. I’m just looking for something fun I can use to relax, not something I become obsessed with so that I’m able to put it down once my internship starts.
    Shows I’ve watched/liked:
    Gossip Girl
    Grace & Frankie
    Love is Blind
    The Office
    Parks & Rec
    Brooklyn 99

    Shows that I tried but couldn’t get into:
    Pretty Little Liars
    The Bachelor
    Tiger King

    Movie & Documentary recs also appreciated!

    • Ribena

      The Bold Type! I believe it’s on Hulu? (I’m in the UK where it’s on Amazon). Also, ahem, Gardening Education.

      • Z

        I just finished Hollywood, Ryan Murphy’s new Netflix show. 7 episodes, easy to get through. I really liked it!
        If you like that his other newish show The Politician was good as well. Playfully over-dramatic.
        The Great British Baking Show is also relaxing and fun for a more competition type show.

        • Jo March

          Thank you for this suggestion! I’m already a few episodes into it after starting it a couple hours ago..

    • lsw

      I don’t know how far you got in PLL, but I wasn’t into it at first and then became OBSESSED. I love nighttime soap style shows, though, so YMMV.

      Also, Derry Girls!

    • Carmen Sandiego

      Dead to Me
      The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel (on Amazon though, not sure if you have Prime)
      The Good Place
      Where’d You Go Bernadette (movie, on Hulu)
      Little Fires Everywhere (Hulu, I haven’t watched yet, but loved the book so it’s on my list)

    • anon

      Netflix
      House of Cards

      Prime
      Mrs. Maisel
      Goliath
      Jack Ryan
      Mozart in the Jungle
      30 Rock
      Downton Abbey

    • Anony

      Virgin River on Netflix
      When Calls the Heart (Hallmark show on Netflix)
      I just started HollyWood on Netflix the other day and it’s pretty interesting.

    • FormerlyPhilly

      Kim’s Convenience (Netflix) and Derry Girls (Netflix)
      Crazy Ex-Girlfriend (CW)

    • Anonanonanon

      Vampire Diaries! I am not kidding. Junk food TV. If you want to avoid the worst you can start at episode Lost Girls or even the season 1 finale, but it’s not that bad to get through. From then on it’s fun. It drops off in quality in the fourth season (imho) but it’s worth it for season 2 and most of season 3.

  21. Pink

    I’m the person who complained last Friday about my 10,000 person office re-opening yesterday. My boss allowed our team to continue WFH for the next couple of weeks (bless him) until we get more information. The company must have received a ton of backlash because they emailed an 11 paragraph letter out this morning basically dressing down employees for pushing back against coming into the office. The taker is: the email refers to us as essential employees. Oh really? That would have been nice to know six weeks ago when my day care told me she was authorized to open for essential employees. I guess the onus was on me to ask if remote IT support is considered “essential.” This is bonkers.

    • Anonymous

      I mean, no offense, but yeah, the onus is on you to figure out if you fall into the category of essential workers per your state guidelines. If I was using that classification for purposes of continuing to use daycare, you can bet I’d read the orders myself.

        • Anon

          If you’re in California and an IT worker supporting a hospital, it’s not completely clear. That is my husband’s situation. The first orders said all hospital employees so he had to go in. The second order said any employees of essential businesses that could work from home must be allowed to, so he’s been home.

          Now with the easing everything is very muddy and, at least at his workplace, boss-dependent. There are plenty of managers there who think no one can possibly be actually working if they’re not in the office, despite the fact that the month of work-from-home has gone very very smoothly.

      • Anon

        I disagree. I’m an essential worker and my employer sent us all letters to carry stating that we’re essential workers as proof.

    • Anonymous

      This is a good sign that you as employees are in this together and should continue pushing back as a group. If everyone does it (declines to go into the office) then you’re all empowered as a group (vs being the lone protester singled out as the bad guy).

    • Anonymous

      Also if your situation is really absurd you could name and shame them in the media, leaking their email to the media (see Buzzfeed articles from earlier in the lockdowns or maybe write to askamanager). They would then hopefully change their minds and let you work from home when questioned publicly.

      • Anonymous

        this is terrible advice. if her state is reopening AND they are essential employees, any media outrage will just be collateral COVID outrage.

    • anon

      People are learning a lot about the companies they work for, aren’t they. :( I’m really sorry; this truly sucks. I’m glad your manager has your back (for now, at least).

  22. Traveling in July?

    We have a trip scheduled for the 4th of July to visit family. We would be leaving the 2nd and coming back on the 7th. The flight is direct and under two hours. Both the state we are departing and the state we are flying into have low overall numbers and no active hotspots. However, one of the airports is a pretty big hub. It would be myself, my husband and our 9-month old. Would you go?

      • OP

        That is what I’m thinking as well. Do you think airlines will be refunding/crediting flights for then?

    • Anon

      I would, personally, unless they family you’re planing to visit is elderly. But you can definitely cancel your flight and get a credit at no charge if that’s what you’d prefer to do.

    • Anony

      I would probably go since we’re talking about July. There is literally no one flying so it doesn’t seem that risky especially with airlines requiring masks and upping cleaning.

      • OP

        I think I’m more concerned with the airport than the airplane–mainly going through security and having to use the restrooms and being in the gates.

        • Anon

          Plus the seating on the airplane. You have no control over how closely you’re seated to someone else. That’s the reason I wouldn’t do it.

          But yeah, also the restrooms. Airport restrooms are awful on a good day. Airplane lavatories – ick!

    • Anonymous

      i would go. i’m done living in fear (presuming that everyone involved is low risk and i would wear a mask on the plane).

    • Anonymous

      I think it’s too early to say. Ask me in a month. However, I will say my family is still planning on going on our annual 4th of July beach week vacation, assuming short-term rentals are allowed at that point. The caveats are: 1) no flying involved (though my parents do have to drive across two states to get there. It’s only a few hours for me), 2) we’re planning on not going out to eat and cooking all meals ourselves, and 3) we’ve stayed at this beach house before and know the beach in front of it is pretty empty so aren’t worried about being near people (this is not like a Florida beach. Low key, isolated end of the island, all single-family homes on the beach, so fewer people generally).

      • Aft

        +1 to this. You don’t have to decide now, so I’d wait to see where things are 30 days out.

    • anon

      No, I don’t think I would. Especially if anyone you’re visiting also happens to be in a high-risk group.

      We just canceled a flight/vacation planned for the end of June. I have zero desire to travel right now.

    • BabyAssociate

      If you decide not to go, I’d recommend holding off as long as possible before canceling. You’ll be in a much better position refund wise if the airline cancels. I had a big trip to Asia planned for the end of March, my flights were changed multiple times, but were ultimately cancelled by the airline and getting a refund (not a credit) was very straightforward.

    • Walnut

      Is driving an option? A two hour flight suggests that you’re in long drive territory. I’d feel more comfortable with exposure with a drive. Bring your food in a cooler and your main exposure will just be one or two gas station stops.

      • MagicUnicorn

        This. I would consider making a drive if there are no high risk individuals involved and numbers are calming down by then.

      • OP

        Driving is an option. It would just mean 10 hours in the car with a 9-month old. Though you are right that it cuts way down on our exposure risk. I guess we may have to bite the bullet and drive.

  23. Anon

    someone shot a security guard at a store in Michigan after being asked to wear a mask…what is this country coming to

    • Anonymous

      extremely sad. it was at the family dollar. i read that the people who did it were crackheads. :(

    • Anon

      The guard told a 20-something woman to wear a mask. She and her mother took such umbrage they went home, got their father, and came back to the store. The man berated the guard for “disrepecting” his sister/daughter, and then shot the guard in the back of his head. WTF.

    • anon

      But my freeeedumb!

      In all seriousness, that is horrible and makes me afraid of what humanity is coming to.

  24. Anonymous

    Not having a schedule has made it hard for me to get into “work mode”, but I really love not setting an alarm and not having a “bed time”. I can’t decide which is more important to me… embracing this period where I don’t need an alarm? Or trying to get back to normal and setting a schedule for myself?

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