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Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Richmond Pencil Skirt

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. I don't know what it is about this pencil skirt from Boden, but I really love it. I've definitely seen solid-colored Buffalo plaid like this with navy and white — or they've also got it in pink and white — vs. the usual red and black, but something about this seems really interesting and lovely. The skirt is machine washable, too. It's available in regular (2–16), petite (2–10), and long (4–16) for $110. Richmond Pencil Skirt A plus-size option at Talbots also comes in misses, petites, and woman petites. This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support! Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.

Sales of note for 12.13

  • Nordstrom – Beauty deals on skincare including Charlotte Tilbury, Living Proof, Dyson, Shark Pro, and gift sets!
  • Ann Taylor – 50% off everything, including new arrivals (order via standard shipping for 12/23 expected delivery)
  • Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
  • Eloquii – 400+ styles starting at $19
  • J.Crew – Up to 60% off almost everything + free shipping (12/13 only)
  • J.Crew Factory – 50% off everything and free shipping, no minimum
  • Macy's – $30 off every $150 beauty purchase on top brands
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off, plus free shipping on everything (and 20% off your first order)
  • Talbots – 50% off entire purchase, and free shipping on $99+

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

304 Comments

  1. Hey hive, I’m looking at making some major investments to upgrade my wardrobe. Before I do, I want to learn more about fashion/styling/fit etc to make sure I’m making smart purchases. Do you know of any good resources for learning about what colors are best for different people, how to evaluate fit/fabrics, etc? Basically I want to become a much more informed clothing shopper. Thanks!

    1. 1. Your library probably has Color Me Beautiful. Yes, it’s from the 1980s. But it’s still valid for what colors are likely to work for your coloring.
      2. This is subjective. If you are, say, Nikki Haley, that is one thing (needing clothes as a person then clothes for a governor in a very hot/humid state capitol, then needing clothes for NYC which has a real winter). If you are west coast / tech casual, that means something completely different.
      3. For eye candy, I like clicking though The Modist for pretty things.

          3. How in the world is “she is no longer governor” catty? How else could I have said that? The way the post was written, it made it sound as if OP thought Haley was bouncing around the different lifestyles/geographic areas. This board is supposed to be a place for women to come together for information and ideas. I see I need to step away – it’s worse than social media.

    2. Sounds like fun! There are lots of blogs with information. Insideoutstyle.com has a lot on color and styling, Bridgetteraes.com utilizes a lot of upscale brands, youlookfab.com is written by a Nordstrom stylist in Seattle. and, there are books, too, including one or two by Stacy London who did the “What not to wear” TV show. Good luck!

      1. I love the Nordstom’s personal shopper that Rosa has. I have one at L&T.

        But did the HIVE hear that Nordstrom just ended talks with the Nordstrom family to take company private? I think that is SOOOO Great! I think that if they were taken private, we would NOT be able to go shoppeing for the same stuff we can today b/c it would NOT be public any more. I guess that if we still had personal shoppers (like Rosa has), we could continue to shop there through them, but we could no longer just browse the store’s like we do today and buy whatever we wanted. That would be a bad thing! But since they are still goeing to be a public company, this will NOT happen! YAY!!!!!

      2. I’ve actually had better luck with Nordstrom’s styling box offshoot – The Trunk Club – than an actual Nordstrom’s personal shopper FWIW

    4. Imogen Lamppost’s blog, Inside Out Style, is a great resource to identify your body shape, select the most flattering clothes for your shape, and figure out your best colors.

        1. OMG, Imogen Lamppost would be the most fabulous name for, like, a 1930s lady sleuth.

    5. I would probably get one on one help. Like a personal shopper. Some stores have personal shoppers for free that you can make an appointment with. So if you have a big department store nearby, it could be worth developing a relationship. I’d feel obligated to buy some stuff then. But, I think that would be the way to go. They know how stuff should fit, what can be tailored, etc. Sometimes I shop with a relative who used to own a bridal store, and she has a wealth of knowledge about what/how to alter. I am sure if you live in a big enough area, people do this by the hour without affiliation to a particular store.

      1. I like this in theory but I just read through the 12 types and I have no idea which one I am

        1. And the example for pear is JLo and the advice is to avoid bodycon styles and v necks. Lol!

          1. Yeah, I’m a bell, and I’m going to continue to let my rockin’ rear end shine instead of hiding it under A-line skirts like I did when I had an eating disorder and hated my body. I like their tips for some things but not the ones that involve trying to “hide” flaws.

        3. I don’t know which shape I am either. The flow chart says I’m a goblet because my chest is larger than anything else. But then the description for goblet talks about wide shoulders and I have narrow shoulders.

    7. I used missus smarty pants dot c o m (all one word) and I sent her a couple of photos and she did my colors.
      I haven’t used her fit service. I did use her once-a-week style suggestions for a year or two and it was helpful, like being slowly brainwashed in what looks good for my body. It was casual, not formal work attire like here.

      That was about ten years ago, but she’s still doing her thing.

    8. Best advice I got is that it’s a long process to figure out what works for you, not an all-at-once splurge where you have a new wardrobe overnight. You WILL make mistakes and buy expensive things that don’t work along the way, but you’ll learn as you go. You’ll also figure out what’s worth splurging on and what you can save on.
      The absolute most important thing is fit; if your clothes fit right and construction is sound, you will look and feel good, period. I highly recommend the book How To Get Dressed, which has information about how to assess fit and what’s worth getting tailored.

    9. I really like Anuschka Rees’ book, “The Curated Closet.” Very systematic and intelligent. She also has a blog which contains much of the content, if you dig into it. For example, maybe her series of blog posts on “How to assess the quality of garments” would be useful to you. First one: https://anuschkarees.com/blog/2014/05/04/how-to-assess-the-quality-of-garments-a-beginners-guide-cheat-sheet

      Though not exactly related, I also think her flowchart, “Why you don’t have anything to wear”, is absolute genius.
      https://anuschkarees.com/blog/2014/02/03/wardrobe-diagnostics-why-you-dont-have-anything-to-wear

    10. In case this is your style, another wonderful resource from the 80s is the book How to Dress Rich, which I would rename “How to Dress Classy.” Since you mention an upgrade, you may like this. My grandmother gave me her copy recently and I can’t believe how sound the principles still are. Great instructions on where to splurge, the different “lines”/shapes of clothes, etc.

  2. I’m touring Ireland and all of Great Britain the last week of May/first week of June. What shoes should I wear? Boots? Booties? Tennis shoes? I know that it can still be chilly and rainy there that time of year. We will be renting a car on both islands and stopping off at various tourist places. Thanks!

    1. I’d bring sneakers, a light weight pair of rain boots, and a more formal shoe to wear out to dinner

      1. +1 I did a trip to Scotland at that time of year and brought fashion sneakers and a pair of (water-friendly) flats, but wish I had also brought a pair of rain boots. You can get short pairs that look like chelsea boots and a pair of those would have been ideal.

    3. I purchased the J.Crew matte chelsea rainboots just before going to Ireland last month and was very pleased with how easy they were to wear. They were comfortable and I felt like they were more versatile than bright or knee-high rain boots.

      1. What did you wear them with? I just bought some chelsea boots and I’m having a hard time styling them (although it seems like it shouldn’t really be that hard).

    4. I would bring water proof hiking tennis shoes, that can get muddy and that you can hike with. I would also bring a pair of black Chelsea style booties for the walking around the bigger cities. If you have space throw in a pair of cute tennis shoes for days when its not raining or flats for nicer dinners. I would not bring rainboots.

    5. On our trip to London and Ireland I bought a pair of water resistant black ankle boots and had my cobbler re-sole them with a better tread. I walked all over London and Dublin in them, and even wore them when we climbed the Cliffs of Moher. They were super comfortable, had enough grip for hiking, and were presentable enough for casual meals.

  3. What’s everyone’s favorite flats? I’m looking for a new pair after my Frye’s are starting to get worn out. I don’t really have a price range. I’m willing to invest if they are good quality, but I’m also interested in cheaper ones if they are comfy, cute and durable. I would be wearing these for both business casual and weekend purposes.

    1. I love the JCrew Cece flat but I think they might be discontinued as it seems like they don’t have many on the website anymore.

    2. how long did your Frye flats hold up? I’m always on the look out for very durable very classic pieces, and I know my mom’s Frye boots have been in her rotation for well over a decade, so wondering if their flats are an equally worthy investment.

      1. They only held up for a year and a half. I’m so disappointed they didn’t last longer. I do wear them literally everyday. They are starting to get worn down at the back of the ankle. I think it’s from where they rub against the floor of my car as I’m driving. It’s probably partially my fault as I never really conditioned them.

        1. If you are wearing a pair of shoes every single day and not re soling them … I don’t think a year and a half is ridiculous for them wearing out. Flats don’t have a huge sole like boots or tennis shoes, they will wear out. Also, no shoe is meant to be worn everyday. When I say a shoe lasts x number of years its because its rotated between. Shoes need a day off inbetween wears to lose the moisture from your feet and to have the inside support bounce back from being worn. I have AGL flats I love, and are years old and look brand new, but I am not wearing them every single day at all.

        4. You should get a piece of sheepskin to lay on the floor of your car under your gas and brake pedals. This has saved many of my shoes. They sell it for this purpose.

          3. I am dying over some of the google results from this – some people tie a little sheepskin bootie with a bow on top of their shoes while driving. I missed that life lesson.

          4. Also I feel bad now that I realized the booties are for diabetics not shoe protection. But still the image.

        5. Wait, you wear them literally every day and you think they should last longer than a year and a half? Do you expect your shoes to be made out of vibranium?

          1. I have another pair of Frye’s that I wore every day and they lasted much longer. Plus my sister has a pair that she wore every day trekking to campus that held up for several years. I had just assumed I got a defective pair.

    3. Not blaming you since it’s impossible to search this site and actually get results, but this question has been asked 2-4 times in the last week or so. You might want to click back through the last 10 posts or so and search “flats”.

      1. Also, take a look at yesterday’s flats and read the comments. Lots of flat recommendations.

    4. Someone yesterday recommended the Lucky Brand Emmie flats, which look enough like the Fryes I love at 1/3 of the cost that they are going to be my next purchase.

    5. My favourite flats for work are the Michael Kors Fulton flats and my favourites for weekend are the Lucky Brand Emmie flats.

  4. I have some skirts (a former Boden pencil skirt comes to mind) where I can’t walk well in them. It’s like the slit isn’t high enough (or I have a very long stride). I’m 5-4. It’s not a problem on my The Skirts from Nordstrom (normal length, not petite). Do I need a petite in Boden? If I can’t get my usual New Yorker walking pace / fast stride, I think I’m just mincing around like Peg Bundy.

    2. I used to have this problem. I quit wearing pencil skirts. I take big steps and walk fast, and they’re just not meant for walking like that. I switched to a-line styles and pants.

      1. Me to, but not pant’s. My tuchus is to big for pencil skirts, and I will NOT wear them just for enjoyment of men. Frank loves to grab my tuchus when I wear them, so I’ve switched and donated my pencil skirts to Good Will. He can go there to grab a tuchus or two and get sued. FOOEY!

      2. +1 – the slit would have to go indecently high (or the fabric needs to be stretchy) in order to get your full stride out of a pencil skirt. Though, If I wear heels (like I would typically do with a pencil skirt), I’m not using my usual full stride – probably more like 60-75% anyway.

        Or, if you’re me, the skirt just starts inching up my body until the hem is much higher than it should be.

        1. Why do they start crawling up? It happens to me, or they twist around, and it’s so frustrating to have to tug on my clothes all the time. I’m definitely moving more towards dresses and away from skirts for this reason, though I miss mixing and matching.

    3. I have the Tweed version of this Boden skirt and I love the way it looks but I can’t walk well in it so I hardly ever wear it. I have the petite but I think maybe the same size in a regular might have worked better.

  5. Have any of you participated in the Women’s Campaign School at Yale? I previously worked in politics (years ago) and am trying to decide if it would be worthwhile as I consider running for office in the coming years.

    1. I have not but I went to an info session in DC and have heard people rave about it. I hadn’t done any work in politics at the time and so I wasn’t “ready” to apply, but I’m involved in a couple of campaigns this year and so I’m definitely planning to apply for the one in 2019

    2. I haven’t been, but I live nearby and know two women who have attended. Both have raved about it. One was younger, out of law school, and one was mid-40s. She went on to be the equivalent of mayor of her town.

    3. EMILY’s list also offers training sessions and can offer a lot of assistance during the campaign as well.

      I’d check them out (depending on your politics.)

      I think Susan B. Anthony’s list offers something similar.

    4. There are a lot of local orgs like League of Women Voters that do similar things and probably don’t sound as pretentious or cost as much money.

  6. Looking for a fixed rate financial planner in NYC. Does anyone have any suggestions? Just moved back to the USA and feel overwhelmed by the process of finding someone solid.

      1. +1 I found my advisor through XY based on a rec from someone on this s*te. It’s early days, but he’s been great so far!

  7. DH and I want to dip our toes into investing. Index funds are the way to go, right? Any particular favorites?

      1. Esp if it the S&P 500 index fund. You want the lowest fees possible since the index returns what it returns and you don’t want fees eating into that.

        So invest directly. Not through a broker or through any sort of brokerage account. Again: fees kill returns.

    2. I think it depends how much money and time you want to invest. I only invest in my 401(k), and I do index/mutual funds because I don’t have the desire to pick out individual stocks. My husband mostly does index/mutual funds but also has a small portion in stocks that he chooses. He enjoys the process of researching and choosing stocks more than I do. I’m not at a life stage where I could put tons of money into a particular stock either, so it depends on how much money, too.

      1. My brother also enjoys researching companies and reading up their annual reports etc. to determine their financial health and worth. That way he knows if he’s buying something for cheaper than it’s really worth or if he’s overpaying. There’s a lot more to it than I’m willing to spend my time on. I just throw my money at an index and forget about it. I’ve used Vanguard since I graduated 8 years ago for both my Roth IRA and a regular brokerage account. Very pleased with them.

        1. To add, I don’t do this, but my friends are really into real estate and that’s maybe another route. Many of them have rental properties. It’s not something for me because I view it as too troublesome to deal with: mortgages, maintenance, tenants; but apparently it works for some.

      1. Yes, do index funds. And here’s another plug for Vanguard. I use their personal advisor services; I was moving money from multiple other places and wanted help setting up a simple portfolio based on diversified index funds.

  8. My husband and I are taking our kids to NYC for the first time at the end of March. Our girls are 18 and 15. Thus far we plan to see Wicked, tour the UN, visit the Metropolitan Museum, stroll down Park Avenue on Easter to see all the fun hats, visit the Top of the Rock at night and go on the Staten Island Ferry. Both girls also want to do some shopping. Any recommendations on other things to do? Shopping recommendations? Minneapolis has decent shopping, but it’s always fun to try new places. Any restaurants ideas that aren’t super fancy and expensive but good? Thanks in advance.

      1. +1 A lot of trendier brands can only be found in Soho, and the big brands are moving in as well.

      2. Really? I find all the stores in SoHo to be the least pleasant location of their respective brands!

        1. If you’re early birds, I HIGHLY suggest breakfast at Balthazar first, its pretty easy to get in before 10am.

    5. Not from NYC and haven’t been there in over a decade, but if I went I’d check out the Bergdorf window displays. And the Highline.

    6. Go on one of those corny boat rides around Manhattan. Not just the Staten Island Ferry. I know it’s touristy but everyone I recommend it to ends up loving it. No particular company to recommend. You can ask your hotel.

    7. You are in luck, it is a snow day here and I am itching to procrastinate! For 15-18yr olds, shopping along Broadway in Soho is probably your best bet – a lot of trendy boutiques that you won’t find easily in other cities. For designer brands, go to west soho, west village, and of course 5th ave (above 42nd) – it is fun going from designer store to store vs. seeing them all in one place (a la malls). 5th ave between 16-23rd st is more practical, but nothing that exciting there (J.Crew, Sephora, Club Monaco, etc.)

      $$ Food (All sit down places, best to make reservations if possible) – asian: Ippudo, Thai Villa, Sushi Yasaka, Obao (hells kitchen loc) brunch: Jack’s Wife Freda, Tartine, Friend of a Farmer, Midwinter Kitchen. italian/pizza: Da Marcella, Patrizia’s, Rubirosa tapas: Boqueria, Tia Pol, Socarrat. Cuban: Cafe Habana. Mexican: Taqueria LES

      $ Food – mamouns, Cava (chain, like a mediterranean Chipotle), pommes frites, the Kati Roll Company, Shake Shack at the original location in Madison Sq Park, pastries at any korean bakery (paris baguette, tous les jours), NY pizza slices (most are pretty good for what it is, a $2 slice)

      Desserts: Cookies at Levain Bakery, Chikalicious dessert bar, the chocolate chip cookies at macchiato espresso bar, doughnut plant, La Lanterna Di Vittorio

      And now I am hungry.

      1. forgot to add: Hudson Eats, Urban Space, Eataly and Plaza Food Hall – all are upscale food courts (you won’t find McDonalds or Burger King at any one of these).

    8. To piggyback–where in NYC should we go to shop for a young teen who still has to wear kids’ sizes, and a 40-something dad who doesn’t want to dress like either a dad or a hipster?

    9. I have a treasured memory that goes like this: I was about 15. My dad had a conference in NYC and he took me. We stayed in a hotel right near Time Square. He went to do conference stuff and I was *free to explore.* I didn’t do much of anything, but I wandered around the area feeling like, “wow, a real big city!” Pretty sure I went into a bodega and bought myself a Snapple. But I grew up in the suburbs, so this all felt new. I think I remember it because it was this moment of excitement and independence that felt so different from the independence I was developing at home. Anyway, TL;DR, depending on what your daughters are like, turn them loose for an afternoon and let them explore together!

    10. Are your kids into Hamilton at all?

      If so, you must bring them them to Trinity Church: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_Church_Cemetery
      And Fraunces Tavern.
      And then take them by NY Waterway Ferry to Weehawken to see the dueling grounds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDOrzF7B2Kg (narrated by Tom Hanks, who played Sully; these same ferries also helped out with the Miracle on the Hudson passengers)

      The history in NYC is so absolutely and completely profound to me.

      While you are by Trinity, go to the Museum of American Finance, a wonderful smaller museum, to further your celebration of the first secretary of the treasury. https://www.moaf.org/plan-your-visit

    11. Ooh, you could take the ferry to Red Hook and check out the art exhibits at Pioneer Works. Roberta’s in Bushwick would be a lot of fun for teenagers, but also has v v good food. And, they might also like the shopping in Williamsburg off the Bedford L train stop.

    12. I keep recommending this, but: Lower East Side Tenement Museum, followed by lunch or dinner down the block at An Choi, which is a great Vietnamese restaurant.

      1. I took my teen to the Tenement Museum a few years ago and she absolutely loved it. It is also a good place to visit if the weather is too rainy for outdoor activities (we were also there Easter week and it was pouring rain several days).

    13. If you’re up for another musical, Matilda was absolutely wonderful when I saw it a few years ago. I would see it again with my daughter in a heartbeat.

    14. TBH that sounds like a good # of planned activities. They’ll need a lot of flex time for crafting the perfect instagram and snapchat shots. My best memories from NYC visits at that age are from walking around the city and getting a pretzel or a bagel and pretending to be a local. Although if you go to Central Park, I was obsessed with the Alice in Wonderland statues.

  9. How much money have you put into an apartment that is not yours to make it more livable? Did you paint? Did you install shelves? Did you install window treatments? How long were you planning on staying there?

    1. I have hung art, window treatments, installed a magnetic knife rack on the kitchen wall, and added a shelf to the closet to make it a more usable space. I will probably be a renter for a very long time because buying in my HCOL city with insane housing prices is not feasible on my salary. I’ve been here almost 5 years and it’s important to me that my space is comfortable. I REALLY want to paint next or at least touch up the white trim on all the walls.

    2. Less than $100 total over 17 years of renting (not 17 years in one place though). Every apartment I have rented has had blinds and I am not a curtain/drapes person. I didn’t paint because most of my leases prohibited it and the ones that didn’t required me to repaint before I moved out. I’m too lazy to paint a place I don’t own. I never installed shelves because I didn’t need any, but full disclosure, I haven’t installed shelves at my house in the 9 years I have owned it either!

      The longest I stayed in a rental was two years.

    3. OMG — I have a total aversion to spending any $ on apartments. I will send $ on things that I will own (nice bedding, towels, etc.) that I use every day, and a good couch. But I’d never paint an apartment or do any sort of window treatments. The blinds that come with the place are fine. In school, I had a summer apartment with no curtains in the bathroom. I felt bad-ish, but I was broke, so I taped the comics from the sunday paper up on the windows (which were next to and at the same level as the toilet).

      The thing I hate about owning is that it feels like you should light your wallet on fire to make it perfect but it is just housing. It is not my soul.

    4. We moved into a tiny tiny place but the commute is so perfect for us and we love the neighborhood so we are willing to make it work. Which meant installing shelving for storage. By doing this also we aren’t paying for storage unit so although it costs money to have someone come in and install it (our rental agency requires that all things added are done by an insured handyman) some of it is coming out in the wash because we are able to not pay for that expense. We are probably more on the extreme end: Installed medicine cabinets in the bathroom (there was just mirrors and we wanted that extra storage), closet shelves in our 3 closets, magnetic knife rack, hanging utensil rack, coat rod that hangs, hung art, hung hooks, etc but I can’t imagine having not done that stuff, it would be really hard to live in our place. BTW our place is in an old building but was totally new construction when we moved in – we were the first people, so no one had done anything with window treatments, or shelves or anything like that. I think its also important to factor in the costs if we had chosen to rent a bigger place or have a longer commute. Then suddenly a few shelves isn’t as expensive as those options.

    5. I have been in my place for about 6-7 years (I forget exactly). I figured I was staying there for the forseeable future because it was a nice building and pretty accessible to a lot of my metro area, so even if I changed jobs (or broke up with my bf down the street – which I did) it would still be a good location for really good rent.

      I painted (with permission – project just after I broke up with bf). I bought custom sized blinds for the one (large) window in the apartment – totally worth every penny and I’ll leave it there for the next person. LL told me to feel free to install shelves/screw them into the walls as needed. – most of this I did within 1-2 years of moving in. Oh – and since it was a condo unit with it’s own furnance, I just took on the responsibility of changing the furnace filter every 3 months or so. Mostly because it was less hassle than getting my landlord to do it. I did make her arrange to change out the florescent light bulbs in the kitchen when they went out though…

      I’ll be moving out this year because I (gulp) bought a house (in the inspection/appraisal phase, so fingers crossed). I would have stayed longer, but the commute was getting to me and I was outgrowing the space.

      1. This was an individually owned apartment and the LL wanted approval of the colors first.

    6. Even in the house my fiancé owns, we’re focusing our $$ on things that we can take with us to the next house. The only thing that isn’t transferrable is the interior painting, which will be around $2k, but that’s because I can’t stand the builder’s beige everywhere. Everything else can be taken down and moved (including shelves, Elfa storage, new lighting fixtures, etc). We’re spending the most money on new furniture and even when we select the furniture, we’re looking for things that are modular so they’ll work in our next space. This is especially true for my home office. I’m going to get the Pottery Barn Logan office suite so we get the built-in look, but still be able to bring it with us.

      1. If you have the time, a high quality paint and a few hours of your own time can save you about $1700. We painted ourselves using one of Benjamin Moore’s higher end lines and one coat, no primer pretty much covered everything. We did a second coat just to make sure of full coverage. The paint is such high quality that no matter what direction we painted in there were no drips (the thick stuff sticks), no seams, no brush or roller marks, just a seamless beautiful paint. Totally worth the extra money on the expensive paint (I believe it was about $50 to $70 per bucket…but we only use 1.5 buckets for two 10 ft high, 15 ft long walls because of the full coverage, with some left over for touch ups).

      2. FYI, don’t get too attached to the shelves, Elfa, and lights, as those are (1) often difficult to bring to a new home given that they are somewhat ‘custom’ and fit the old space, but also (2) having all of those exclusions (which are typically included in a home purchase) might turn off buyers who feel you are nickel and diming them. The items you listed are typical inclusions and most buyers expect that as part of the package. You will often see maybe one fancy chandelier they want to keep/exclude, but when the list grows long, you sort of roll your eyes over how difficult they will be on every other aspect of the purchase – we saw a woman desperately cling to her drapes and cabinet pulls! Then she decided she could include them, but tried to itemize the cabinet pulls into the list price. We walked away; we were not about to start debating the itemized price of cabinet hardware!! Certain items are just part of the whole package.

        1. Thanks for the heads’ up. I know our “does not convey” list will be a mile long. But we’re keeping all of the original light fixtures, so if we need to swap those out before the open house, we can. I’m less attached to the Elfa, but will definitely be taking my Pottery Barn shelves and brackets since I’ve used them over and over again in my apartments. Our market is really hot for sellers, with multiple offers within the first 24 hrs, so if it makes people bow out, so be it. Over my dead body will I give up my vintage chandeliers!

          1. That’s not how real estate works. You’ll need to take all that stuff down before showing the house.

          2. I am keeping all our curtains when we move because my mother made them, so we have all the old ones stored in the attic to re-hang.

        2. I bought a condo once and the owners took the kitchen drawer pulls. There were only 2. I didn’t notice right away but the wholes were a give-away. SO CHEAP!!!

          1. OMG that’s too funny! I won’t be that extreme, but maybe before we decide to sell we’ll do the “make under” so we’re not catfishing our potential buyers.

          2. Yeah, by all means change out the things you want to keep before you show the house. Otherwise the best way to guarantee the buyers will want your stuff is to put it on a “not included” list. My realtor still talks about the deal that tanked that one time because of the fireplace tools not being included…

          3. The person who I bought my house from took the bathroom mirror. I was so surprised.

            Who takes the bathroom mirror???

        3. Agreed with Nutella. I have sold two homes and actually left a bunch of stuff for the new owners including all the large appliances, a movable kitchen island, storage shelving that just fit exactly into a cramped space, and my bedroom furniture! Both times, my real estate agent was estatic! My homes were great for first time buyers and they loved that so much would be staying (if they wanted it). It really helped sell the place quickly and for top dollar because the buyers weren’t worried about keeping an extra $3k in reserve to buy a frig and washer/dryer. For one of my buyers, that extra 3k went to their deposit which meant they could bid $15k higher for my place.

          1. In the US the fridge and washer dryer are fixtures this is bare minimum stuff.

          2. Not in California. Stove/overnight/range yes, those stay. Frig and laundry is usually BYO.

        4. Yes, shelves (on the wall, not in a closet) and curtains I would expect the owner to take, but if someone wanted to take their Elfa closet system it would raise quite a few eyebrows.

          1. Our Elfa isn’t screwed into the wall–I picked a system of stackable shelves.

          3. The whole point of Elfa is that you customize it to what you own, rather than the generic builder closets that have a ton of wasted space. I would find it incredibly weird to be stuck with someone else’s custom closet. Leave the top tracks and hanging standards, yes, but don’t make me take out all of your brackets, shelves, drawers, shoe racks, etc. so that I can redo it for myself. That’d be like taking your silverware/dishes/kitchen utensils, but leaving all the drawer organizers and add-a-shelves for me to toss because they don’t fit what I own or how I wanted to organize my cabinets.

          4. I thought that if it wasn’t attached to the wall it didn’t automatically convey?

        5. Agreed. But if you want to keep those items (like cabinet pulls), swap them out for other things prior to listing / photographing your home. Same with shelving, light fixtures, etc. Nobody will know that you replaced them.

    7. Although painting would have been the furthest I’d go, I never did because I’m too lazy to paint it back. With apartments I knew I would be in two years or less, I never bothered to affix anything to the wall other than a handful of paintings/photos. Because, again, any damage that caused would have to be fixed or taken out of a deposit.

      My position is – 2 yrs or less, just do single hole paintings, freestanding floor shelves, and plants to make it your own, anything else is too much effort on the front and back end.

    8. How much I’ve spent depended on how well the place was set up when I got there. I have installed window treatments in a ground floor apartment that had none, but in every other place there were already blinds there and that was fine. That place also had no AC, and I bought a window unit and left it there because I was moving to a place with central air it was more effort than it was worth to sell. I’ve installed shelves in a place that had really poorly set up storage. Basically, I would spend a minimal amount of money to make a place more convenient/livable for me, but not to decorate. You can do other things to decorate that you can actually take with you when you move, like hanging a few pictures or putting down rugs.

    9. DH and I rented for about 15 years before we purchased our first apartment. We have painted, hung shelves/art, wall mounted TVs, and installed blinds (although every NYC apartment I have lived in doesn’t come with blinds/shades, so you have to purchase them every time you move into a new place). We have purchased things specific to that apartment (i.e., shelving that fits in one particular corner, but may not work in a future space).

      Personally, I wouldn’t spend any significant amounts of money on a space unless I anticipated staying there long-term (2+ years for me, but other people may have different metrics). My view is that I want my space to be livable and workable for me, but sometimes I see bloggers who transform rentals and do things like replace bathroom vanities or renovate the kitchen, and I would never do that unless I intended to live them for a long period of time and the landlord was giving me a huge discount on rent to update the space.

    10. We did closet organizers (the kind of kit you buy at Target or Home Depot) and some shelving in the kitchen. We also bought vertical blinds for a large picture window. We left all this behind when we moved and the landlord was happy to have it. We lived there for 5 years and loved our landlords (not one rent increase, and it was in San Francisco!) so it really didn’t seem like a big deal to us.

    11. I’ve usually “installed” window treatments (meaning the $10 curtain rods from target and $5 sheer curtains from ikea… which are in addition to the blinds that are in the apartment), and installed items that help with storage – glass racks under cabinets to hold wine glasses, sliding shelves with baskets under bathroom sinks to make that area more accessible. The sliding shelves/baskets are items I took with me to the next place and the wine glass racks were approximately $10 total and the next tenant wanted them, so we left them. but no painting because I’m too lazy to actually do a good job painting anything.

    12. I really regret not investing a bit in our last rental. We didn’t know if we’d stay more than a year but ended up being there for over five. In retrospect, I would have spent the money to paint (very ugly white paint when we moved in) and on window shades. I do spend money on shelves because that’s something you could take with you and I would still spend money on shades if they were standard sized windows because that’s not expensive (our old rental had very large floor to ceiling windows and it would have cost at least $1K to get shades for them).

      I don’t understand how poeple live with blank walls just because something isn’t their forever home. I also have in the past upgraded some inexpensive stuff like swapping out cheap light fixtures like the screw on $10 light covers for slightly more expensive ones because that $25 can make a big difference.

    13. I have always negotiated for the landlord to paint before I move in. I move my own curtains and curtain rods and art from place to place when I move. I have been known to install shelves, closets organizers and cabinet hardware, which I leave when I move. I’d say I probably spend $100 on a place to make it most functional and attractive for me. I’ve never lived anywhere less than a year or more than 4 years.

    14. I’ve probably spent $1000+ to make my current apartment more livable over the last 5 years, plus tons of sweat (non) equity. A lot of this was the cost of totally re-painting. Other costs were new light fixtures, a new bathroom cabinet, and some creative fixes to make the kitchen more functional.

      My rent is way below market price because I got a very good deal when I moved in and live in an area with rent control. It made more sense for me to make my current place comfortable than move to a place I find comfortable and pay an extra (literally) $500/month. I have no intention of moving or buying in the coming years.

    15. I’m a total outlier because I’ve been in my rent-stabilized New York apartment for 12 years and will probably never, ever leave! Even if/when we move out of state, we’ll probably sublet or just keep it because by now the rent is so insanely under market… I’ve invested thousands of dollars over years and years and we’re now replacing the kitchen counter at our own expense (for materials; the landlord is kind enough to cover labor). I’ve painted (multiple times!), added shelves (planning to add more and create a built in bookcase, too), installed dimmer switches, replaced most of the light fixtures, added ceiling fans, etc.
      I had no idea I would wind up here for so long, and my finances have steadily improved over the years (I moved in in college), so it hasn’t been all at once. But even though I don’t own the apartment, it’s my home, and the investment has been more than worth it.

      1. My cousin has a place with insanely low rent, and their landlord is kind of an absentee landlord who has said that he will only update things by charging them more rent, but gives them free reign to change things themselves. So, they do. It works for them.

        1. Yes, landlords can increase rent on rent stabilized apartments only if they do some sort of renovation. For the countertop, I was given the option to pay out of pocket up front, or have 1/40th of the reno cost added to my rent. I chose to pay up front because I plan on staying long term.

      2. Just an FYI – it’s that attitude that causes people to want to eliminate rent-stabilization laws in NYC. If you do move out and then sublet (most likely at a nice market rent so you can keep the difference as profit) or keep it empty just to hold onto it, while not using it as a primary residence or planning to return to it, I hope your neighbors report you and you get evicted. The point of rent stabilization laws is to protect tenants, not to let someone keep a cheap apartment indefinitely.

      3. Just an FYI – it’s that attitude that causes people to want to eliminate rent-stabilization laws in NYC. If you do move out and then sublet (most likely at a nice market rent so you can keep the difference as profit) or keep it empty just to hold onto it, while not using it as a primary residence or planning to return to it, I hope your neighbors report you and you get evicted. The point of rent stabilization laws is to protect tenants, not to let someone keep a cheap apartment indefinitely.

    16. Curious about this as I have never been allowed to paint any apartments I’ve rented from complexes. I’m yound though, and have been in 4 apartments (including college). Been in my “grown up apartment” (finally living by myself) the past 2 years. Are you all painting individually owned apartments with a single landlord or places rented from large complexes?

      2. I painted in a large corporate owned complex. I didn’t get approval beforehand and painted it back the original color when I moved out. They never said a word (and maintenance was in my apartment many times while the walls were painted) and didn’t deduct anything from my deposit. I was like a commenter above who painted as a projected with my mom after a breakup, but I also did another room later when I renewed my lease and knew I was going to be there another year. It made a huge difference in my comfort at home.

      3. So I’m on the other side of this as a landlord, and sometimes I’m happy for my tenants to paint and do other upgrades (and I will sometimes offer to pay for materials like paint if I think it’s going to be an overall improvement of the place) but I always have an approval right over the paint color etc. I am a little too chill as a landlord though. But in my view, if I can have good tenants who want to stay long term, my turnover costs are reduced, and those tenants that painted the previously bright lime green bedroom a nice neutral light gray really did me a favor, so I was happy to pay for the $30 bucket of paint. :)

  10. Who is marching this weekend? If you feel comfortable post where you will be marching.

    1. I’m going to San Diego for a vacation. Flying in on Friday night and planning on marching with my teenage daughter on Saturday morning. Coming from the midwest, the time change will be in our favor to get up and do this while we are vacationing.

      1. Thats awesome! Thank you for using your vacation time for such a valuable cause!

    3. We were planning to march in D.C. with our tween but she sprained her ankle so we will have to sit this one out.

    8. I planned to march in NYC but sadly have to attend a funeral instead. Go get em!

  11. Having someone over for dinner who follows a Paleo diet for an autoimmune disorder. I googled and figured out what they can/can’t eat but would love to know if anyone has any favorite recipes that are “dinner party worthy”.

    1. For them I’d do a roast chicken. It’s paleo, it’s delicious, it’s dinner party worthy. Or a whole beef tenderloin if you’re feeling spending. Any Large Piece of Meat works. I’d do a great side salad, roasted vegetables.

      1. +1

        If you spend time seasoning the meat, make your own salad dressing (which takes about a minute, max, but yields so much more flavor than store bought), and use lots of fresh vegetables to roast, this will come out really tasty.

  12. Hmmm…I would call this more of gingham than buffalo plaid, but realize that there’s no real difference in the actual pattern.

    I guess I feel like it’s only a buffalo plaid if red/black and made of flannel or wool?

    1. I thought the same thing. I would call this a gingham. Gingham is cotton, and I don’t know that buffalo plaid/check is confined to a fabric type, although it did originate in red and black as a “tartan,” so that would lend itself to heavier fabrics.

  13. ALMOST done with finals. I would love some suggestions for fun reads for the next few weeks before my next semester starts up. Thank you!

    1. I just finished The Wife Between Us. It was fast-paced and held my attention-would probably be good for a post-finals mental break.

    2. Crazy Rich Asians, Eleanor Oliphant is Completely Fine, the memoirs of Amy Poehler and Tina Fey.

      1. Eleanor Oliphant was a good read but definitely not fun. I’d also suggest The Power– but put it in the same category. Both books are fantastic but they have difficult spots.

    4. The Fifth Season, the first book in a fantasy trilogy by N.K. Jamison. I highly recommend if you like the genre!

  14. Anyone listen to the Sporkful? They did an interesting podcast recently about people celebrating other culture’s traditions without any representative of that culture there for the celebration. For example: hosting a passover without a Jewish person or hosting a Chinese New Year party with no Chinese people there. It has made me think a lot because I find the act of non Jewish people hosting passover’s at their church pretty offensive but then realized that I have participated in St. Patrick’s stuff without anyone actually Irish around – so is that the same level of offensive? Sorry this is all over the place. I just thought it was an interesting idea to think about as our world becomes more global and connected, how to learn about other cultures but not cross lines.

    1. I listened to this too. I think the difference between a non-Jewish Passover and St. Patrick’s Day/Cinco de Mayo is the significance of the holiday. Passover is an extremely important, solemn occasion in Judaism, whereas St. Patrick’s Day is a relatively minor holiday without much religious/cultural significance. As a Jewish person, I agreed with Dan that the idea of gentile Passover is super uncomfortable while St. Patrick’s Day in America (while perhaps offensive/perpetuating stereotypes) is less problematic. And I can see why the Lunar New Year party is more akin to Passover than St. Patrick’s Day, since it’s an important cultural occasion in East Asian cultures.

      1. I guess what else I found interesting is that I was also less offended by the sister’s gentile passover – which was totally secular in the episode, than I am by churches who host seder’s and make take on the Jewish holiday as their own religious event.

        1. Jesus attended a Seder on the Thursday before he was crucified and at was at that Seder that he gave his disciples bread and wine and started the whole communion thing. Churches celebrate seders in memory of that. It’s not just like ohhh traditions are fun let’s try this one out!

          3. OMG Anonymous at 11:48, that’s the worst justification I’ve ever heard. Yes, Jesus did it b/c he was Jewish and Xians have COMMUNION “in memory of that”.

      2. Respectfully, that is kind of crap. St. Patrick’s Day is a significant religious and culturally significant day in Ireland. It is celebrated as a feast day by all the major churches and is a bank holiday as well. People go to mass. It is a thing.

        An all-gentile seder is weird and offensive but please do not sweep the religious and cultural significance of St. Patrick’s Day aside just because it has been rendered an orgy of really offensive stereotypes the world over.

        Signed, married to a man from Cork who goes spare on Twitter every year on this issue

        2. I think the observance of St. Patrick’s day in Ireland has changed dramatically in the last 20 years.

          Growing up, it was a church holiday but now it’s very Americanized and few people go to mass.

          Ireland in general now is a secular country. Mass attendance rates in Ireland are actually lower than they are in America.

          That said I don’t think st. patrick’s day = passover. Passover is one of the holiest days of the year and one that is incredibly solemn.

          1. Uh, plus, do gentiles not get that Passover in addition to being SUPER holy also celebrates the end of many many years of enslavement for Jews? Like, nobody (or I dearly hope nobody would be stupid enough) to host a juneteenth party without any African Americans present.

    2. To me the line is celebrating a “holiday” without knowing anything about it (as we do with St. Patrick’s Day and Cinco de Mayo in the U.S.) or appropriating religious ceremonies. Learning about a holiday and sharing in the secular aspects of the celebration should be encouraged as a way of fostering cross-cultural understanding.

    3. I find St. Patrick’s day problematic less because it’s celebrated without any Irish people around and more because the “celebration” itself usually includes a bunch of bizarre stereotypes, and is mostly an excuse for people to get hammered without any idea why they’re doing it. See also: Cinco de Mayo. No I’m not out there protesting about it, because it’s not that important to me or that big a deal, but I avoid participating in the raucousness because I find it obnoxious.

      On Passover: is celebrating other people’s religious holidays really a thing people do? That’s really strange to me. I have been invited to a Passover dinner hosted by a Jewish person, and was happy to attend, but I would never just host one myself. It’s not my belief system. Why do people do this?

      1. I don’t think celebrating Passover is a thing people who aren’t Jewish do, right? I’ve never heard of it.

        1. It is 100% a thing people do. Many churches host them. Their reasoning is because since Jesus was Jewish its a way to connect to a ritual he would have celebrated in his life. The podcast example was about two sisters who are doing it for not for that reason – and I haven’t ever heard of an example like the sisters who aren’t connected to a church. But many Christian churches host seders and its pretty weird/offensive to Jewish people.

          1. Huh, this Jew is less weirded out by the churches doing it than by random folks with no connection to Judaism.

            To Christians, whole Jesus narrative (particularly as it occurs around Passover, that is, the whole Easter/resurrection thing) is definitely a redo/spinoff of the Passover story, right? Blood of the lamb tells G-d you’re with him so it saves you from death, etc., now let’s go onward into freedom/springtime/rebirth?

            Like I guess it’s weird from the perspective of… it’s not your tradition any more. But to spend some time with that history/backstory makes sense to me.

          3. My church used to do this; the reasoning wasn’t exactly “because Jesus was a Jew”. More because the lineage of Abrahamic religions means that some Christians see Judaism as an part of the foundation of their faith, and by honoring Passover, they are connecting with that part of their faith.

          4. My phrasing is bad: some Christians find the foundational roots of Christianity in Judaism to be more important to their faith than others.

          5. We recently visited a church that was hosting a seder and at first, I though that it would be an interesting thing to attend. As a kid in church Sunday school, I learned a lot about Passover as part of our old testament studies. We also attended seder dinners at the home of our Jewish friends. There’s a shared history between the faiths and I thought this would be an interesting way to learn more about these beliefs and traditions. This discussion has prompted me to do some further reading/thinking as to why this practice is problematic, so thank you.

          6. Is this an evangelical thing related to the whole Middle East conflict –> Armageddon theory? I am a mainline protestant and have never heard of a church hosting a seder.

          7. I’ve been to a seder at a church and thought it was a great learning experience.

            Do not both Christianity and Judaism share what Christians call the Old Testament? Aren’t the Abrahamic faiths (incl Islam) united by things like this? Emphasize our common heritage and encourage ecumenicalism?

          8. Anonymous at 11:26 – Was there a single Jewish person there? How would you feel if a group of Jewish people acted out Ash Wednesday at their synagogue as a learning experience?

          9. I think that my Catholic friends might be offended at people re-enacting a Holy Communion. Those of us who get shot-glasses of grape juice as communion would be happy that people are learning about our traditions. I mean, if you’re actually crucifying someone, not cool. Living nativity, fine (I mean, that is renacting something where 100% of the people there were not Christian and were probably Jewish, maybe it’s not OK to have nativities in churches).

          10. Catholic here: we’re way ahead of you on this one! There’s no way to “act out” Catholic traditions. If you eat unconsecrated Eucharist, it is just a bit of bread and means nothing – you’re just eating some bread. If you take Eucharist that has been consecrated by a priest, then you are not just “acting out”, you are partaking in our traditions, led by a priest. Transubstantiation for the win!

          11. Same goes for ashes, btw. Gotta be blessed and administered by a priest or you’re just smearing some soot on your forehead.

            If there’s one thing the Catholic church has really put some thought into, it’s maintaining centralized power over their religion! :)

          12. Exodus from Egypt/parting of the Red Sea is a common celebration in the Abrahamic faiths. Not sure I’m on board with churches celebrating via a full on seder meal when that’s not really our tradition. I’m a practicing Episolplian. We don’t do a seder meal but the event itself (exodus) is definitely part of the litgury in this season.

          13. The Last Supper was a seder (that’s why Jesus was in Jerusalem at the time of the crucifixion). In the Anglican and Roman Catholic churches, the services for the Triduum (Maundy Thursday, Good Friday, and Easter), rely heavily on imagery related to the Exodus and the Passover; the Anglican Easter Vigil service expressly describes the holiday as “the passover of our Lord.” That said, at least in the Anglican Communion, I’ve not seen churches hold something expressly described as a seder – although it’s decently common for a ceremonial meal to be eaten in the middle of the Maundy Thursday service and for the food offered at that meal to be largely what would be eaten at a seder. I have seen a number of nondenominational churches hold events that are described as seders.

            Personally, I have some discomfort around these events and how they are celebrated. Part of that comes from the long history of Christian antisemitism – there’s something wrong to me about celebrating the holiday of a people that my faith historically actively oppressed, particularly without grappling with that history. It gets even odder when coupled with the strange relationship of evangelical Christianity to modern-day Israel.

            (FWIW, I’m a devout Anglican who was previously married to a Jewish person and who has been to a boatload of seders.)

          14. I live in Atlanta. This is totally a mainline Protestant thing to do here – Presbytarians, Methodists, Baptists, as well as newer Evangelical/Fundamentalist churches (i.e. Vinyards or whatever) do Passover Seders here. White and African-American, and I think I’ve seen at least one Hispanic church advertise seder, too.

            There are also interfaith seders here in the Jewish community – Jewish + African-American, Jewish + Muslim, Jewish + Christian, Jews for Social Justice , so, everybody.

            This is considered pretty normal here. For reference, a Jewish friend here who is more observant than I am (more Orthodox, but not Ultra-Orthodox), wanted something new — so she went to a friend’s Jews for Jesus seder!

          15. When I lived in DC many churches had interfaith seders. My understanding that this was a post-WW2 effort to strengthen ties and understanding b/w Christians and Jews.

            Not sure how one could know with certainty if any people of any other faiths attended.

          16. Religion professor here: we’re also pretty down on “Abrahamic religions” in the field, as a kind of glossing over differences, crypto-Christian supercessionism, etc (kind of like the critique of “Judeo-Christian” as tacitly Christian).

          17. Cbackson- just an FYI but actually tons of Episcopalian churches in the US hold seders.

        2. My mom did a quasi-Sedar one year, I think. The food and the story-telling, but probably not the prayers. We’re Catholic, but she wanted to connect/honor/experience the Jewish heritage of Christianity, I think. Didn’t do it again though…

          Never been to a church-hosted one (or heard of one, though I haven’t been to Mass in ages).

      2. Jewish perspective here – while a church celebrating Passover might make me uncomfortable, I think that’s my problem. Seems like the exploration of the life of Jesus is the prerogative of a church group. The fact that the Seder as celebrated by Jews today is separated by 2000 years of cultural / religious evolution from that which was celebrated by the contemporaries of Jesus is something that a church group would have to grapple with as well. This seems totally different than a bunch of people of European descent trying to celebrate the lunar new year.

        1. Another Jew here – I fully agree with you. It also seems different than a bunch of American “celebrating” St. Patrick’s Day or Cinco de Mayo because they want to get wasted.

    4. I wouldn’t worry about St. Patrick’s. It’s really an Irish American holiday. I saw an AMA on reddit with a pub owner in Dublin on St Pat’s. He said around 70% of his crowd was American.

      So as an Irish American, welcome to the drunken holiday of my people! Everyone’s Irish in St Pat’s.

    5. I haven’t listened to that podcast but to me, it seems more important to look at the intent of the celebration than the “purity” of the people celebrating it – because then you start to get into questions of “how Jewish/Chinese/Mexican/etc is Jewish/Chinese/Mexican/etc enough to count as OK?”

      I think, if people want to celebrate a holiday with genuine desire to honor the meaning behind it, that’s great! If they use the holiday as more of a “theme” or a promotion of stereotypes, that’s offensive. And almost more offensive when people try to claim, “Oh, it’s okay, my [distant ancestor] is [x], so I get a free pass to interpret this holiday however I want!”

      1. I think with the caveat, though, that if someone of that culture tells you something about your well-intentioned celebration is offensive to them, or you’re engaging in stereotypes or misrepresentations of the tradition, you listen. Which is why the participation of someone of that culture is so important – you as an outsider aren’t necessarily going to know all the potential missteps and the significance of them.

    6. Military brat. We celebrate everything (e.g., Bastille Day, 7/14; possible distant past French ancestry but not self-regarding as French) that our location celebrates and everything that we celebrated previously (e.g., Now Ruz). We are generically white Americans, so no particular family traditions other than the basic American/Episcopal ones (so various saints days are known; we haven’t done anything particular for Santa Lucia day in a while). It’s sort of the Jimmy Buffet It’s 5:00 somewhere theory — today is a holiday somewhere, find out about it, raise a glass.

      1. As a Reform Jewish American in an interfaith marriage, with military and world travel in my family experience, I endorse this view.

        1. Thank you. It was apparently World Ravioli Day yesterday. Bummed that I missed that.

          1. my DH informed me this morning that Friday is world chip and dips day. Mark your calendar!

      2. I’m Jewish, though not really observant, and this is my approach, too. I can’t wrap my head around what’s so offensive about non-Jews making a real attempt to appreciate one of our traditions; it’s a cool one! Are Christians going to be offended if I celebrate Christmas or Easter? Because that wouldn’t stop me. The more excuses to celebrate, the better! The more excuses to connect with our fellow humans through their respective traditions, the better.

    7. I was raised Catholic and our church celebrated Passover and it wasn’t because we were trying to play Jews for a day. There’s not a monopoly on the Old Testament. It’s part of Christian religions, too.

    8. Our daughter’s school did a Passover – it’s a Catholic school and they were learning about the bible story and the Jewish traditions.

    9. Sort of tangential, but during law school all my girl friends were Muslim (not by design of course — that’s just how it played out). One spring my dad was in town and we had this ~awesome~ seder on the floor of my studio apartment: me, my dad, and my three besties. My dad does a great seder — pretty quick moving, heavy on the Leonard Cohen, philosophical questions, jokes, etc. — and it lined up perfectly with the vibe of my friend group. And I’m pretty sure it was vegan. Aaaanyway, it was a *hit* and my friends kept asking “when can we have another seder, RH?!” (:

        1. It’s a great seder! (I’m going to be spending Passover with my dad again this year, but he’s sick, so … I should probably come up with something, huh?)

      2. My favorite seder ever was when my young sisters-in-law acted out the Exodus with legos – they’d built pyramids, a Red Sea, made a bunch of lego frogs, etc.

    10. What’s annoying about Xians celebrating Sedar is that their theology includes an assumption that they are chosen by God to perfect/complete the Jewish faith, and that their celebration of anything Jewish is their inheritance and that they will do it best in a cosmic way, even if done in mostly ignorance of Jewish practice. Their theology can’t allow them to participate is a “hunky dorry” “let’s all get along kind of way”. They are perpetual evangelists. It’s their call. They don’t want the other religions around by their own theology.

      1. Not sure what christians you are hanging out with but I know no one like this. This seems more like ISIS or something.

        1. I dunno. Even in the comments above, there seems to be a lot of “we share with the Jewish faith a history” therefore “we can practice their religion”. That’s not really valid. What’s being unsaid is that the Xian theology assumes Xians “GET” what God was doing with the Jewish religion all along (Jews are just confused). And this is pretty basic theology, regardless of how lapsed Xians may act or practicing Xians may want to present their theology in a “PC” way.

  15. I posted this yesterday, but I have just discovered a lot of information/anecdotes about how retinoids can cause hair loss and I’m scared, as I was about to add this to my regimen. I even noticed some YouTubers who promote Retin A have thinning hair as well. Has anyone experienced this? Apparently is not from the vitamin A, but some other mechanism.

    1. Have not noticed this at all. I’ve been on retin A for 10 years and have enough hair on my head for 3 people.

    2. Not familiar with this. Is a dermatologist prescribing your retinoid? Do you have hair loss already? If so, then talk with a dermatologist.

      Honestly, retinoids applied topically to the face/neck should not absorbed into the blood stream and transfer a lot of chemical to the hair on the top of your head. Maybe you are confusing oral retinoids that you swallow (Accutane) with the topical retinoids you put on your face (Retin A)?

      1. No, they don’t think it is from the vitamin A, and folks who use topicals…even Differin or OTC retinoids…have experienced this. They think it is from some changes in the skin that occur from the use of the medication. YouTuber Hot and Flashy has used Retin A for about 5 years and recently complained of frontal hair thinning and Melissa55 (I think that’s her name) who has been using the cream for about 20+ years also seems to have very thin hair all over. However, both have gorgeous skin. I then went to Facebook to see all of the people I thought have used retinoids for years…those with the smoothest skin…and checked out their hairlines. Those seemed a bit wonky also…in comparing older and newer photos. Yeah, I’m off the deep end now…

        1. This is absolute zero proof. I do not look at YouTubers hair lines and make medical decisions based on that.

          You really do this? Can you see why this is not a randomized controlled style on the effect of topical retinoids on hair loss? Can you find any correlations in your mind on ages/types of people who use retinoids, and when hair thinning occurs (common! Very common!) in most women? And that almost all of us will have thinning hair over time? Especially over a …20?!?!?! year interval.

          Talk to your dermatologist. See a dermatologist if you have these questions. Do not use the internet as your source.

          1. There are SO many things that happen as the result of the use of everyday products and everyday behaviors and the medical community is blind to them. The menstrual cycle itself is still presented as an unsolvable mystery to people…as if nothing we eat or do affects it and it has a mind of its own.

          2. I’ve literally never heard of the menstrual cycle as un unsolvable mystery. I think science pretty much gets it. It’s pretty well described in like, the first textbook you get in med school.

          3. Who are all of these young people in pink hats crying that they might lose their fertility and live in chronic debilitating pain without birth control pills then? If the menstrual cycle isn’t a mystery? Like, who are these women who get pregnant by accident and have no idea why. I mean, seriously.

          4. Granted, they’re lazy idiots. But they’re only listening to their gyns with all the medical training, so…

  16. Next week I have a trip that I have learned includes a day (four hours) on a yacht. What on earth does one wear on a yacht? I am 30 (if that matters) and very pale, so I’m thinking maybe some kind of light tunic with sleeves. I don’t think we’ll actually get wet, so I don’t think I would wear a swimsuit. I could be wrong. Help??

    2. I’d plan on it being much colder on the boat than you expect. Subtract at least 10 degrees due to the wind. Make sure you bring some kind of wind-breaker or jacket just in case, unless it’s expected to be 80 or 90 degrees, and then you’ll probably be fine with the tunic. Definitely bring a hat and sunglasses, and plan on pulling your hair up to prevent tangles. Yachts will have a swimming platform most likely, but you know the area/temperature as to whether or not people will be getting in.

      1. Yes, the wind will be blowing over the water, so if you’re over a cold body of water it can feel quite cold. Might be wise to check the ocean temp even if you don’t plan on swimming.

    3. Also–wear white-soled shoes (topsiders or any shoes you have that are not black-soled)! Black soled shoes are a major no-no on boats. You’ll probably take off shoes anyway, but you still don’t want to be that girl!

  17. A relative is getting married in June at a yacht club in the greater Boston area. It’s a daytime wedding and she said I should wear a “nice summer dress.” Can anyone help me find something? She’s wearing navy, so I should probably avoid that, and otherwise, I’m looking for something that is NOT strapless or high-necked. I have seen a few floral patterns I’ve liked (the watercolor floral style in particular), but I haven’t seen the pattern on an actual dress I’ve liked. Budget $100 or less. Thanks so much!!

  18. I like my individual pieces of clothing, but is feel as though I am stuck in a style “rut” and want to create outfits that look more current and stylish. I receive compliments on my outfits, but I don’t feel stylish. At times, I feel not so much “frumpy” but that I am differently dressed from others in my HCOL West coast city, where everyone looks so cool and urban in casual athleisure.
    I’m mid forties, hourglass shaped size 12/14 with a smaller back, but large 32 h chest, and I have longish curley hair. I work in a super casual environment, and love to wear dresses and skirts. I usually casualize these with cardigans, as otherwise my outfits would be too dressy. I have replaced all of my cardis with fresh new ones, and I have some cute jackets — a soft motto jacket from anthro, for example that I wear as well. On weekends I wear casual skirts and dresses with leggings and booties or boots. I do wear skinny jeans sometimes in black, and I would like to add more pants too ( hard to find as hips are wider, waist and legs are much slimmer– which it’s hy I gravitate towards skirts and dresses). I guess what I’m asking is how do I look more stylish? As I get older, I don’t want to always go for outings in my city, and feel like a tourist.

    1. My strategy is to observe other people’s outfits and identify what makes them stylish or not stylish. It is often the cut or silhouette (e.g., fitted v. loose top, precise length of ankle pants), the color (solid neutrals or stripes seem to be in, other prints and bright colors not so much), and the shoes. Tailoring is also important and can take a dress, skirt, pants, or jacket from frumpy to stylish.

      1. Thank you. This link made me smile:) my look right now would be “pre- raphaelite in a puffa, leggings and booties! (I probably will go for a bit of a hair trim today!

        1. I don’t know enough about famous people so My Look is always something like “shh nobody in the neighborhood can know I’m still into [redacted]” or “always ready to go from conference room to coven on a minute’s notice” or whatever.

    3. Also 40s, HCOL west coast and was in a rut. I sound like I’m shilling because I’ve rec’d before but Nordstrom’s spin off The Trunk Club has been perfect for updating my style on the weekends.

      I tried Stitch Fix several times but it wasn’t great the style was a bit twee for that cool-ish athleisure west coast casual look I like on others. The Truck Club really solved all my problems.

      1. Any suggestions for how you made Trunk Club work for you? I’m trying it as well, and results have been lackluster. I’ve created a Pinterest board, given feedback on every item, and tried probably 3-4 trunks. I now have a new stylist but she missed the mark with my last trunk, too. I’d really like it to work for me!

    4. Thank you for all the suggestions. I have a day today to hang in my city — shop and just wander, so looking forward to incorporating these ideas.

      1. That, and I think fashion is having a Pants Moment. A lot of my skirts don’t feel as current.

        1. I refreshed the cardis… I know that they don’t always look as stylish, but I run so cold, and I like the contrast line they provide on my busty top. The hair…it’s true..I am heading into lioness territory. Will try and schedule lioness taming hair style soon. I agree about the pants moment in fashion now too. Sadly, it will be way more work to try on all the pants rather than waltz out with flattering skirts. Not sure if anyone is still reading, but thanks, and this gives me lots of food for thought.

    6. As another longish curly-haired person–deal with your hair first. I never really realize exactly when I move over into lioness territory, but as soon as I get a good haircut, I feel like a million dollars.

  19. Phenomenal Audible deal today- $50 off the annual price (so it’s $100) and then $50 towards Echo decides, which are $50 for 2 right now! I have no affiliation with any of these stores but I am super excited and wanted to share.

  20. Piggybacking a bit on the above, I am refreshing my non-work wear. Can anyone recommend s*tes along the line of Modcloth or TopShop?

    1. What is it about those sites that you like? Price point? Is there an aesthetic they both have that’s appealing to you? (To my mind, Modcloth is more ~cute~ and explicitly retro, while TopShop is more interpretations of what’s trendy now?)

      1. A combination of aesthetic and sizing. I fit more “junior” sized clothes the best. I specifically like Modcloth’s more vintage and slightly twee look, but I realize I am in danger of overloading on twee and having a dresser full of tops with fruit and animals on them… I like Boden as well for casual tops, but they don’t make many in petite and a regular 2 has been too big.

        1. Ha! I’m afraid I’m no help here on the sizing front, because I am the other way. Definitely not ‘junior’ shaped.

        3. Also more junior shaped here. I recently made some purchases on Rakuten from Japanese retailers (FWIW I am not Asian). I really like most of the things I got. The price was comparable to Topshop and the little details (like chest darts, back darts, shoulder shaping, attractive and less flowy hemlines and hem wrapping) were first of all THERE which is already a huge win, but also so much better placed for my body shape. Now, I wouldn’t plan on returning anything because it will just be too much of a pain. So buy two-three things and see how it fares. The Asian sizing is much smaller, so just because you’re a JR XS in US don’t assume you can get a Med in JP. One of the blazers I got was women’s L although I’m sadly often in children’s clothing in the US. Look at measurements and ask if unsure, most vendors are happy to reply quickly.

  21. Anyone want to play shopping with me? For ART?! (I’m having a sh*t day for real reasons so I’m just distracting myself…)

    Right now (as always?) I’m wanting art of Women by Women (also the name of a calendar I love – link to follow).

    Soliciting links for your fav art that you wish you could buy or have bought or will buy!

      1. WOMEN AND CATS! The only things I want on my walls! Sorry men! Sorry scenery! Sorry dogs! Clear out and make room for women and cats!

        1. I was going to add “the only thing that I might want in addition to women and cats is moons and spooky stuff” (am I a stereotype or what?!) and look! She has that too!

          1. Check out bluedogrose (Nakisha) on etsy! The most wonderful prints of woodland animals being both adorable and yet serious and slightly creepy. She also has fabulous Tarot decks if you’re into that.

    5. check out charm foundry on etsy and instagram. She’s a bay area artist who works in encaustic painting and other media. I think you will like her style.

      bonus, she is my friend.

    6. as luck would have it, art dot com has a special category they’re promoting right now of art by women on their front page.

      I just bought this Jessie Wilcox smith print for my daughter’s room: https://www.art.com/gallery/id–b31481/women-in-art-posters.htm

      If you are in the mood for some other sweet options: I really love Tove Jannsson’s moomin illustrations and Alice Woodward’s gorgeous Peter Pan drawings.

      1. Oooh there’s an Alice Woodward one captioned “Sleep pretty darling do not cry” and it got me right in the feels.

      2. Ahhh…scrolling through Georgia O’Keeffe was just what I needed. That, and maybe a vacation to an art gallery :). Thanks, ladies.

  22. DH suffers from anxiety. He has a lot of catastrophic thoughts (eg. that he is going to be fired tomorrow, we are going to end up homeless, etc. — in actuality his job is fairly secure at the moment and we have enough savings to live for 5-6 years with neither of us working). He is seeing a therapist/receiving treatment. The past week his anxiety has been particularly bad with panic attacks every day. I love him dearly though must admit sometimes it is hard being married to someone who suffers from this, particularly since i just entered my 3rd trimester of pregnancy. I’ve dealt with some anxiety myself and have seem therapists (our kids are probably screwed), but not as severe as his.

    For those of you who deal with anxiety – any tips for how I can be a supportive spouse when his anxiety flares up?

    1. He needs to tell his therapist that he needs better medication management and see someone who can prescribe that. Be supportive by demanding he do so.

      1. No, don’t do this. Don’t “demand” he take medication if that isn’t right for him. It’s great he’s already seeing a therapist and you can try to support him to continue that.

        I’m sympathetic to your situation and I know how rough anxiety can be, but there are a lot of other treatment modalities (CBT, meditation, exercise) that might be better fits for your husband. Don’t charge in wanting to “fix” it for him; just be supportive, make sure you take care of your own needs, and don’t give in to spiraling anxiety.

        1. He’s having daily panic attacks. She’s in her third trimester. He can try other stuff while he gets better meds. Exercise? Srsly? For daily panic attacks when he’s already being treated?

      2. I tend to agree here. Panic attacks every day is not where he should be, and he needs to get his professional team on board to help him get ahold of things before baby comes.

        Hugs to you.

        (Your kids aren’t screwed! They’ll have loving parents who know from experience how hard it can be to navigate Big Feelings, and who have tips and tricks for handling them.)

        1. Oh, well, yes to Anon above. Maybe not “demand he take a pill” because I would be super mad at anyone who did that to me. BUT “demanding” that he call on his professional team to help him… I think that’s probably appropriate given how the past week has been.

          1. I’m Anon above and I agree – there’s a big difference between insisting he address the problem somehow and insisting he has to take medication. I would be really pissed if my spouse tried to charge in and tell me exactly how he thinks I should address my medical problem (given that he is not a medical provider), but if he gently but firmly insisted that I call my therapist/explore other approaches, I’d take that seriously.

    2. How about advice for someone who has a spouse like this but who isn’t in therapy. And who answers the suggestion with “I was a psychology major and no one can fix this.”

      2. Go with him to his primary care doctor, and talk about it there.

        If he wont, insist on couples therapy or you will leave him.

    3. Help distract him from his thoughts. We often try to use our rational brains to problem solve, but when you are really having a rough time, problem solving can lead to ruminating. So help him to do anything that will help distract him from how he is feeling. E.g., rather than helping him think through solutions to the catastrophes he’s imagining, help him change his mental subject. Get him out of the house for a walk. Suggest a distracting game. Anything that will engage him on something other than the anxious thoughts.

      Also, I have no personal experience with this but have heard from others it is very helpful in the midst of a panic attact: http://stellar.ie/skills/grounding-54321-the-technique-that-helped-me-manage-my-anxiety/11894

      1. Basically, this, as I describe in more detail below. Don’t buy into the merits of the anxiety.

    4. I tend to be anxious and the very best thing my husband does is not to buy into the anxiety. He doesn’t try to problem-solve, he doesn’t get involved with the merits of whatever I’m anxious about (like trying to convince me we have enough money or whatever), he just says “If you are awake in the middle of the night because you are anxious, wake me up and I will hug and squeeze the anxiety out!” I usually don’t take him up on it, but oh my gosh! Just the fact of not being shamed for it is such a gift! And sometimes I do wake him up in the middle of the night and he does in fact hug and squeeze the anxiety out and that’s an amazing gift, too!

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