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Cat
NYers- suggestions for a decent place to grab a quick dinner near Penn Station tonight? Will either *just* make an earlier train after meetings wrap up, or will have like an hour and fifteen to fill.
anon
ktown/32nd street is two blocks away, there are a number of good restaurants there if you like korean food – you should be able to get in and out in an hour. There’s also ichiran, which is a single seated ramen bar. alternatively, there are restaurants closer to penn station (zou zous, ci siamo) but these might take longer than an hour. lastly, if you go below ground, penn station is connected to the new moynihan hall, which has a couple barsas well as outposts of jacobs pickles, naya, and other selections in the food hall.
Anonymous
+1, k-town!! tick tock diner is also reliable if you want basic fare.
BeenThatGuy
Inside Penn One is a great restaurant called The Landing.
editrix
Good suggestions above (Moynihan is fun to browse), plus Friedman’s and Pennsylvania 6, both on West 31st Street.
Cat
Thanks guys! ended up making the earlier train but taking notes since there will be more day trips where this deal came from, I think.
nuqotw
Paging Anonymous from the weekend thread with the three houses / elder care stuff / separate finances:
I couldn’t stop thinking about you guys. I hope you figure it out. I think you can figure it out. I’m rooting for you. If it helps, spouse and I hit a resentment/contempt nadir a few years ago (about housework – but really we were each buckling under the constant mess that comes with toddlers and taking our frustrations out on each other). We pulled out of it after many tearful arguments, sleepless nights, a thank you pact (if spouse does something for the household, you must say thank you, and you must say thank you before you say anything else), and some recognition that our perspectives were warped by years of sleep-deprivation.
Some other concrete thoughts in no particular order:
(1) It’s alarming to me that he insisted that you sell your condo if you are ostensibly keeping separate finances. (What happened to the proceeds of that sale? If you’re keeping separate finances, why did he have so much influence on this particular decision?)
(2) It does sounds like you are living at the edge of your means because you aren’t on the same page financially, and it’s stressing both the marriage and each of you out because money and emotions are tied up together. A boat is an expensive toy. I did a little back of the envelope math – it sounds like you collectively spent about $1.4 million across the three houses – I’m assuming 20% down and guesstimating the following purchase prices / interest rates.
$275K for your mom’s house with a 30 year mortgage at 7%
$750K the weekend house with a 30 year mortgage at 4%
$565K for the main house with a 30 year mortgage at 4%
You guys make a ton of money, and though you can swing it that’s still a ton of debt on your salaries. It sounds like you spent about $350K for your mom’s house including closing costs and the various upgrades – that is a lot of money to spend without spouses fully agreeing on it. It also sounds like the weekend house was similarly purchased without total mutual agreement – again a lot of money to spend without spouses fully agreeing on it. I’m sure you and he both know this, but three people do not need three houses.
(3) Another idea for reducing expenses: do your own yard/house work. It seems like you could save $600 a month right there. You could get smaller but still meaningful savings by lowering the heat to 66 if it’s not there already. Yes things might be messier, and they would surely be colder, but it sounds like the money might be more useful elsewhere.
(4) FWIW I disagree with folks saying that only you benefitted from the payoff of your student loans – paying them off benefited both of you because it frees up your (collective, even if it’s managed through separate accounts) money for other things now.
Anonymous
Doing your own yardwork across 3 homes makes no sense. Are they going to move yard tools across the properties? Spend an entire weekend doing yardwork?
We do our own yard but we own a yard tractor, string trimmer, snow shovel/blower, have a place to dump leaves and grass clippings, and it takes easily an hour a week (often more). We do it bc we are fussy and have the time. We pay for my mothers lawn service. She lives in our town but we are not going to trailer up our stuff and go do her lawn; that’s a 2 hour per weekend project.
Anonymous
Agree. Are you going to buy 3 lawn mowers? Real question is why an 80 year old needs a house with a yard.
Anon Wool
Maybe you said that here, separate buckets is a way to stay not on the same page, which can be fine until you run out of $, which you kinda have. Talking is the way to a fix, if there is one. Also, can you rent the weekend house some? Even renting it out for a year may be less drastic than selling it but somehow there isn’t enough money for all of your wants.
Anonymous
I kept thinking about you guys too and am rooting for you.
I agree that spending to the absolute upper cusp of what you can cover is the main stressor. Add to that, you absolutely need to agree on big purchases when you are married. It’s a give and take. Separate finances or not.
Your mother sounds like a wonderful person who deserves a nice house and all the nice things but it’s what you can afford given the commitments you have, not what she deserves. Kindly, it sounds like you inherited your mother’s poor financial judgement and your husband is worried for your financial future.
Anon
I was thinking about it too. OP, if you’re still reading, a few thoughts from someone who also technically has separate finances (as in, our salaries go into our own bank accounts, we have separate investments etc), although at the end of the day we consider it “our money”, as does the law where we are. I’m coming at this from the perspective of your husband in that my family has enough to take care of themselves and my husband’s does not, for various reasons I won’t go into here. DH also has students loans to pay off and I don’t.
1) The big thing that was missing for me was, was any of this discussed when you moved your mom? I get that you have separate finances, but I cannot imagine not talking to my spouse about what this will mean for us. Did you discuss that the strain of paying for your mom would impact your ability to pay off the weekend house? Did you consider his suggestion of an apartment (not unreasonable in my view – does an older person living alone really need a house?). I don’t think it’s fair for him to expect you to let your mom live on the streets, but it also doesn’t sounds like you had any sort of discussion about this and I don’t think it’s fair to make unilateral decisions and then tell him the deal has changed and he needs to pick up this expense.
2) It sounds like you can’t afford the weekend house unless he is willing to pay for it. Again, I think this would have benefited from a discussion before the fact, but at this point if he doesn’t want to pay for it I think your option is to sell it. For the record, we make about the same as you collectively, and although we live very comfortably and I’m not complaining, we cannot afford a weekend home in any way. That’s a huge luxury to me, although I realize this may depends on where you are.
3) Speaking from experience, there is some resentment that comes from feeling like we work really hard and suddenly our standard of living drops because we are funneling money to support people in my husband’s family who have made questionable choices in life. Not saying that’s the case here, I don’t know, but I do think this is a conversation that needs to be had and that his perspective may not be entirely unreasonable. Whenever my husband has tried to support family members without talking to me about it, it’s led to resentment. When he comes to me first and we come up with a plan together, I feel much better about. Of course my plan isn’t to let his relatives go homeless, there’s a middle ground to be found, but I want to be a part of this conversation because it impacts me. Whether or not you maintain separate finances, marriage is a common pot.
Anon
A lot of people said this, but I don’t understand why an older person can’t live in an apartment. My parents moved into an apartment (ranch-style townhome) when they moved to us in their late 60s, and it wasn’t a financial issue at all. They wanted maintenance free living and to be able to reevaluate every year if living independently continues to make sense. If finances are tight and you can’t afford a house, that’s even more reason to consider an apartment.
Anon
This is even buy a condo but I want my older parents in a place with an elevator or a garden apartment and where Dad isn’t going to get on a ladder to clean the gutters. And things can change quickly and not for the better — mom is now not responding to chemo and the end is likely 6-12 months away and last year she didn’t even know that cancer had taken hold.
My parents have means but it will take me finding a place near me for them to break the log jam. They are overwhelmed right now.
Anon
This is very location dependent though. With a house you get and can build equity, not so with an apartment. We were able to sell in-laws home when it was time for them to go to assisted living and fund that for 10+ years. Had they been in an apartment, that wouldn’t have been an option. In OPs case, I think their issue isn’t their assets, it’s the lack of being on the same page which is exacerbated by their two pot approach.
Anonymous
You. Can buy. Apartments?
Anon
Not where I am, soooo
Anon
Your. Weird use of. punctuation. isn’t cute. Or clever?
Anonymous
How does an apartment not build equity? (You know you can buy apartments, right?) I guess this is location dependent too. My NYC apartment has gained over $300K in equity in 5 years.
Anon
Where I live you don’t buy apartments. Condos and homes, yes, but apartments are rentals. Trouble is she already did and it’s also often a loss to change course so quickly. This is a red herring conversation point in this situation.
Anon
Agreed that I’d buy a condo in a lower-rise elevator building in my city b/c my kids would likely use it after my parents were out of it (high growth SEUS city, so an easy bet; in somewhere like their rust-belt area, I’d rent in a heartbeat and often you just get what you get). But I’d not get any rental where there is an expectation of yardwork or maintenance. I just want the bedroom on the same level as the kitchen and laundry, however it comes, and no driveway or sidewalks to shovel in the winter or icy steps to worry about.
Anonymous
Interesting. In NYC condo has a specific meaning (e.g. not a co-op), but an apartment doesn’t mean exclusively a rental. An apartment can be rented or owned, and if owned it is either a co-op or condo. TECHNICALLY a co-op is not real property as you actually own shares in the co-op corporation, but they represent about 75% of the local real estate market and build plenty of value.
Anonymous
Everywhere but NYC “apartment” means a rental. A condo or townhouse is something you own. And there is no such thing as a co-op.
Anon
I don’t think you can buy apartments anywhere besides NYC.
Anon
That’s certainly not true, but may be dependent on urban vs rural. Almost all decent size cities, and the suburbs or bigger cities, have apartments that can be bought.
anon
Apartments, for the whole world but for NYC = rental buildings with multiple units, one person/entity owns the whole building and may or may not be a renter within the building (very often they’re just investment properties and ownership does not reside there). Buildings can be 4 units or 400 units. Only in NYC do I see the phrasing “buy apartments” because everywhere else you “rent apartments” and I believe it has to do with condos vs co-op. We call those collectively condos pretty much everywhere else in the country. So, yes, you can “buy apartments” in NYC the sense that you’re buying a unit within a multi-unit building and you can grow equity just as you do a single -family home.
Signed,
Commercial Real Estate Apartment/Multifamily/Multihousing broker not based in NYC, but another major east coast market, and almost never sees co-ops and never uses the phrase “buy apartments”
Anonymous
I don’t understand why some people are getting hung up on the semantics of condo vs apartment. What people mean is, a unit in a building where you share walls with your neighbors and there’s no yard to take care of and little to no exterior or interior stairs necessary to access the home, because that’s preferable for an elderly person as opposed to a sfh/townhouse/duplex that has a yard and possibly stairs.
Anonymous
That’s insane.
Anonymous
you can definitely buy apartments in Cleveland, Chicago, and DC-area
Anon
Yeah, you can buy apartments in a lot of places that aren’t NYC.
But I also think renting can make financial sense, especially for an 80 year old. It depends on where you live, but my parents rent in our city and their annual rent is not that much less than our annual property taxes + home maintenance, so we’re spending roughly the same amount of money on housing costs that don’t build equity. They have a smaller place than us, but they don’t need a lot of space, and as people said over the weekend you really shouldn’t underestimate all the money spent maintaining a home. It’s easily several thousand a year for us in a LCOL area with a house that doesn’t need a lot of work.
Anon
Flip side: apartments can be so cheap, and you can spend so much on a mortgage, maintenance, yard work costs, and interest, that the “equity” ends up being forced illiquid savings.
Around here, you can get a quite nice garden apartment (ground floor, small buildings with yards, on site pool and gym, new construction) for $1,000 a month. A house – even a smaller one – costs double that. So let’s do the math. You put an extra $12k into the house, plus various maintenance costs (yard work, appliance breakdowns, roof work, gutters, snow removal) every year. Sure you will build plenty of equity, but after ten years, you spent $100k to $150k more on the house than the apartment. (I am assuming that the rent will rise with time but the mortgage costs will be fixed, but am throwing in costs for the house like repairs and snow removal that aren’t there in an apartment.)
So it really just depends on the ratio of renting costs to owning costs.
Anonymous
I think a lot of the disagreement here stems from vocabulary. In some parts of the US an owned unit in a multi-unit building is a condo while a rented one is an apartment. In other parts of the US all the units are apartments, regardless of whether they are owned or rented.
Cat
+1, I usually refer to ‘apartment’ as a rental and a condo would be literally the same space but purchased. But I know in other places ‘apartment’ is used for both. It feels like people are getting really hung up on this point!
Anonymous
As a European this part of the discussion is wild! One of the fun consequences of reading Corporette, is getting to know small cultural differences you never learn elsewhere. I have never heard about the apartment = rented assumption before. Second language learners just learn that apartment is what Americans calls flats, and that they can be owned, rented, co-op or whatever, just that they are one of many units in a building.
a
I think the point here is there are often options to buy something other than a SFH with a yard. You build equity but share common maintenance costs, and yardwork etc is taken care of communally as part of a HOA fee. Condos, townhouses, etc. Perhaps location dependent, but these are very popular near me for those downsizing as they age before they need actual assisted living ($$$).
Anon
I would never buy into anything with an HOA. No way, no how.
Anon
This. There’s clearly a lot of armchair real estate experts here.
Anonymous
I mean, not all HOAs are created equal. My last house was in a suburban neighborhood with an HOA, but it was $125/year (yes year not month) and basically all they did was complain about renters and make sure the snow got plowed off the roads (but not sidewalks).
Anon
You do you, but that’s an absolute no for me. I know of way too many complexes that have had increasingly high assessments & mismanagement of funds. I’m not signing up for that ever in my lifetime.
Anonymous
In my city, it’s basically not possible to not have an HOA unless you live in a falling down house on the outskirts of town.
Anon
I bought a condo in an HOA, and I hate it. It’s standard to have an HOA in my city, but mine is “self managed” which means…nothing is managed. We literally have a Board of Trustees with 1 person. I’ve lived here for 2 years and have offered to join the Board, but the sole trustee won’t call a meeting.
We pay $300/mo for communal water and (ostensibly) maintenance, but someone from our complex (usually me, my husband, or 1 resident in our 7-unit building) get stuck cutting the lawn, shoveling the walkway and stairs, changing the communal lightbulbs, taking out and putting back the trash and recycle bins, weeding…meanwhile, there’s been flooding in the basement and the building needs painting, and no one wants to do a special assessment, especially because only 3 of the 7 units are owner occupied.
This would be difficult for a senior. If I ever buy with an HOA again, it’ll be professionally managed. Those HOA fees are more, but it’ll be worth it.
JD
Eh… I looked at a little city in a SFH neighborhood where a delightful person is flying mean-spirited political flags with profanity on them. How nice for all the neighborhood children to learn new vocabulary. I can only imagine the flags will be multiplying nearer to the election. In Southern California, even >$1 million neighborhoods can have a real mix of houses. I don’t want to live next to six junk cars and grass tall enough for a whole mouse city. New developments seem to have petty HOAs if they won’t approve your landscaping plan. Old suburbs can be a real mixed bag, so we preferred some standards.
Anon
One more thought from someone who read on Friday: it sounds like your husband likes to live big.
Nothing wrong with that. But he didn’t like your condo because he couldn’t park his boat in the driveway. He wants an expensive weekend house and a nice house near work. No judging here; he’s also been divorced and it doesn’t sound like anyone has kids in the picture. He isn’t able to afford the boat and both houses on his salary alone, either, and he hectors you so much that neither of you are paying attention to that little tidbit.
Neither of you have a plan for job loss, recession, disability, or (unless you have fantastic life insurance) dying.
Anon
I think this is a bit true, but it also seemed like OP was way too focused on monthly spending and the only person to think about saving was the husband. What seemed to be missing from the discussion was how their spending on the houses fit into their greater financial position. What’s their net worth, retirement savings, etc.? She only mentioned take home pay, so we have no idea if he’s maxing out retirement and making insurance contributions in his paycheck and she isn’t or they both are or neither. They really have to figure those things out together.
Anon
It’s not a bit true – it’s a lot true.
Anon
This popped out for me too. You can’t just look at expenses in terms of take-home income. That’s like buying a car, or a house, because “we can afford the monthly payment” without thinking about opportunity costs, overall debt picture, long-term financial goals, etc. I would argue that if you have two house payments, and you want to buy a third house, but buying that third house means that you have to substantially restructure how one of the existing house payments gets made – maybe you cannot afford a third house. Also, houses are assets but they also present serious cash-flow liabilities, in that they need to be maintained, repaired, etc. What if all three houses needed a new roof at the same time, in some kind of freak occurrence? We don’t own a second house because I am anxious enough about the possibilities for financial disaster presented by owning just one house. Maybe that’s where the husband’s head is at.
OP, let me say this. Sometimes my husband I fall into the trap of “well, but we make X amount of money, surely we can afford Y! Because everyone who makes X can afford Y, right?” Then we realize – people who do not care about maxing retirement savings, paying for their kids’ college, making sure there are enough emergency savings in the bank, etc. can afford Y. We cannot afford Y, because we care about our long-term financial picture. If your husband is looking at the total financial picture, and not just the immediate “well, we can fund this out of cash flow” – I understand why he’s taken the position he has. Y’all make a lot of money but depending on your total financial picture – it may not, in fact, be “we can afford three houses” money.
I will also say that I have seen this dynamic in other people I know who were raised by single parents – that whatever they decide to do for their parent, as the child, is none of their spouse’s business; it’s between the parent and the child. While I am not Christian, I have always believed that part of the Bible where they talk about a person leaving their parents behind and “cleaving unto” their spouse is good advice. When you are married to someone, there are no major financial decisions that don’t involve your spouse, unless you have pre-negotiated that and agreed those financial commitments will be completely separate in perpetuity. If you didn’t have that conversation up front, OP of the Original Post, then don’t be surprised when your husband is upset about being cut out of a major decision that has a substantial impact on him.
Anonymous
i forgot about the boat – that’s sucking money up daily too. what do they say, the happiest days of any boat owner’s life is the day they buy the boat, and the day they sell the boat?
Anon
And also the incredibly wise quote: “you don’t need a boat; you need a friend with a boat.”
Anon
Ha! I had seen the first quote but not the second. I do have a friend with a boat. A couple of friends with boats, in fact. They’re of no use to me because their boats are always being repaired……
Anon
BOAT=Break Out Another Thousand
Anonymous
Very astute comment.
Anon
I felt the same reading it this weekend. I felt really sorry for OP because it sounded like her husband was just generally being a dick, but on the other hand, they were in way, way over their heads. I make more than them, my primary mortgage is lower, and I have never considered myself in the boat/weekend home/home for mom income category. Not even close.
Anon
Add me to the chorus of folks who kept thinking about this over the weekend.
So, my husband and I maintain mostly-separate finances, but we don’t really think of the money as “his and mine” or even “his, mine and ours” – it’s all our money. We get our paychecks deposited into our own accounts, but I’m on his account and he’s on mine, and we mainly do things this way because it’s comfortable and it’s fine, and if it ain’t broke, why fix it? We have never regarded the money the other person is earning as just “their” money. His retirement money is mine and vice-versa; my student loan debt is also his. Part of this is that we live in a community property state and do not have a prenup (no reason to get one when we were in our 20s and broke). So legally, everything we own belongs to the other person as well.
One thing we don’t do, ever, is make a major decision without thoroughly discussing it with the other person. Because we live under community property rules, regardless of whether we have his-mine-ours bank accounts, everything one person does financially impacts the other person. So, I could not – let’s say – go buy a house for my elderly mother with “my” money without it impacting my husband financially, yes? While the house might be in her name, if I’m using OUR money to pay for it, that affects my husband. So, if he had a strong objection to me doing that, I would not do it, because A. there is no getting around the idea that me paying an additional house payment every month impacts the family finances, which then by extension impacts him and B. I love him, and I want him to be happy, and I value his opinion, and I believe he is an independent, autonomous adult who is entitled to have opinions and also to have those opinions be heard and carefully considered. And I know he feels the same about me, because we talked about it, in couples counseling.
One thing that I think may be missing here is the concept of “shared fate.” Whether or not you have your money in separate buckets, you are married to this person and so your fate is shared with him. There is no scenario in which you can be married to someone and be married in spirit, and join your lives together, and one person’s major life decisions don’t affect the other person. His decisions affect you and yours affect him. And in a marriage, there should be some idea (IMO) of “I want to make decisions that make the other person happy and help them have an actualized, meaningful, and peaceful life.” He should want your mom to be in a safe, secure living situation because that means you will not have to be worried about her care. The two of you should agree on what you want to own – houses, boats, cars, etc. because you have a shared fate, and no decisions are made in a vacuum. You should respect that he has plans for his money that may be significantly impacted if you take on a major expense and then have to ask him to cover bills you now can’t cover. If you don’t have this sense, or he doesn’t, then sorry – in my opinion you’re not in a marriage; you’re in a business deal with someone who has questionable motivations, and the deal isn’t going all that well.
I think it may be time to sit down and have a conversation with your husband that has nothing to do with money, but is about where he sees his life with you going in the future. What are the dreams you share together? What do you want to do together in the future – the next 5, 10, 15 years? What does each of you need to do to make that shared future vision a reality?
You’re framing this as a numbers issue, but it really has nothing to do with numbers and everything to do with emotion. Your attachment to your mother and your investment in her health and well-being is not negated, or should be devalued, because his attachment to his parents is different. He should love you, and want you to be happy. Similarly, you should understand his attachment to his idea of what his future should look like, and his willingness to compromise on that to do what you feel you need to do for your mother. Does he love you, and want you to be happy? Do you love him, and want him to be happy? If not, you’ve got problems that putting numbers into an Excel spreadsheet won’t solve.
Good luck and I hope you can have some REAL conversations about what’s REALLY going on with your husband and your marriage that work out the way you want them to.
Cornellian
Agreed on all of this. Living at the edge of their means seems to just be exacerbating an underlying issue of not seeing themselves as sharing a common fate.
Anonymous
+1, also thinking about it. My husband and I prioritized paying off his $60k of student loan debt in our early years of marriage – I must admit I viewed it as benefiting me as well as him. I wasn’t sure if student loans would be discharged by death in every state, plus I wanted to make sure we weren’t paying dumb interest fees on student loans we could have just buckled down and paid off.
If I hadn’t wanted to deal with the loans I would’ve waited to marry him until he’d taken care of them.
Anonymous
Yep, same. I had undergrad loans, he didn’t. We paid mine down quickly with both our salaries.
I went to grad school at no cost (my employer paid); after we got married he got an MBA and we bankrolled what wasn’t covered under his scholarship.
He got laid off twice in a year when he was done with him MBA; i bankrolled us while he job hunted. He ended up with a wonderful job after 10 months of being unemployed. He was promoted several times and got a ton of equity; the company was sold twice and he got nearly 800k between the two sales.
He’s an only child and stands to inherit a fair bit of money and land from his parents. I’m one of four and at least one of my parents is likely to need support as they age. On balance, his parents live across the country and we never see them. My parents are very present in our kids’ lives and often pitch in to watch them, give us a weekend away, or celebrate holidays with us.
His family land and some specific financial assets will be kept in trust when he inherits it because it will not go to me when he dies- we all want it to go to the kids.
Anonymous
His attitude about the student loans is a huge red flag. He’s acting like he gave her a loan that she needs to repay. If that wasn’t their agreement at the time (and it sounds like it wasn’t) then OP needs to call him on it. If you give someone a loan then you tell them the terms before they accept the money. You don’t act like money is a gift and then pull this gotcha. I would think that would appeal to his black and white thinking. I would be hugely concerned about my marriage if he seemed ok with it back then and is retroactively changing his tune.
Fwiw I had a terrible ex that I thankfully didn’t marry who had a bad attitude about my student loans. We both had good jobs, he was making 100k and I was at 200k; after my loan payment our take home pay was the same. I didn’t expect his help with my loans but I did expect him to split bills 50/50 because (1) he could afford it (2) it was less than either of us was paying on our own (3) we weren’t married and (4) if we’re splitting based on income then my loan payment should be deducted from my income, I don’t have access to that money either, and if I didn’t have the loans then I wouldn’t have been making 200k at 28 years old. But money is fungible so he considered it to be paying off my loans and not getting anything in return. It showed me that he thought everything that’s his is his and everything that’s mine is his.
Anonymous
Did she just up and buy a HOUSE without her husband’s input and approval? I found it a little hard to follow. In the post she said “we” found the house but I’m not clear on whether we means me and DH or me and mom. I assumed it was the former but given his attitude I’m rethinking that assumption. His position starts to seem a lot more sympathetic if she’s off making all these financial decisions without him.
Anon
He was part of the hunt, agreed it was a good investment and seemed to be ok with it in principle, but didn’t anticipate that she’d have less money to pay for their weekend house/place to play with his boat. My interpretation from her post + comments.
Anonymous
maybe this was discussed – but did she ever say if her mom could have lived in the condo she owned before she got married? another red herring, i guess.
anon
I think they’d already sold the condo.
IDK, I get wanting to take care of your parents, but it seemed like both parties had made many missteps along the way.
Anonymous
Yes. I can’t imagine that litigating the past will be good for their marriage at this point. They need to sit down and decide how they are going to do things moving forward.
Anonymous
Help me shop. Trying to find a black and white stripe 100% cotton sweater, that is not super slouchy. I love the look of this one from LL Bean except it’s navy and has 5% cashmere, which I cannot wear. I’ve been looking and looking but everything I’m finding is pretty slouchy/oversized and I’d prefer more fitted.
https://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/127924
Anonymous
https://tnuck.com//products/black-and-white-stripe-natasha-pullover?variant=43855667069150&gbraid=0AAAAADvuiDioeSZ-3A6TUYAXZSQ4Yrp8r&gclid=CjwKCAjwvrOpBhBdEiwAR58-3GV8L-jvENR-jxNeE5VqeHQNYXvQ2aSmCmVLCvePVL_TLMEvhNRPYhoCx_MQAvD_BwE
Acorn
I found a great cotton sweater on Nordstrom Rack but I think it’s too slouchy for you. I love stripes so I’ll look around.
This is the slouchy one:
https://www.nordstromrack.com/s/blu-pepper-stripe-cotton-knit-sweater/7570653?origin=keywordsearch-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FAll%20Results&color=001
NYNY
This may be more expensive than you wanted, but it’s perfect: https://stateofcottonnyc.com/collections/all/products/castine-stripe?variant=41086463213724
Anonymous
maybe this one? https://amourvert.com/products/layla-organic-cotton-sweater-black-ivory-stripe?variant=41246996365503
Anon
Lands End has several 100% cotton options. Search “striped sweater”.
Anon
Talbots Charming Cardigans are great and less boxy than most Talbots tops. They’re also cotton or a cotton blend without wool.
oldladylawyer
just a vent to the world. I bought a pair of franco sarto chunky loafers. They are entirely made of plastic. FS has always been a moderately priced brand but they used to use leather and had heels and soles that could be repaired and replaced. same is true of clothes– no linings, no hems, synthetics not wool…. people tut tut fast fashion but i don’t even know what the price point must be for something that lasts more than a few seasons….
Anonymous
Agree – it is frustrating! I find that it’s less about the brand per se, but hunting through any particular brand’s offerings to find the rare items. Talbots, for example – I recently bought a pair of 99% wool pants with a lining, which used to be a standard offering at mall brands, even in spring and summer seasons. Now, they are rare so I snap them up when I can. Same thing with shoes the loafers you mention. I can’t rely on what they used to be like, so I’m careful about reading the descriptions to try to find out what they are made of.
Writing Retreat Update
Commiseration! I hate plastic shoes. My feet really stink, even if I wear socks and use foot power.
What’s the link for the Talbots pants?
Panda Bear
They are the ‘luxe Italian stretch flannel wide leg pants’.
Panda Bear
https://www.talbots.com/luxe-italian-stretch-flannel-wide-leg-pants/P233079611.html?cgid=apparel-pants-full-length&dwvar_P233079611_color=BURGUNDY&dwvar_P233079611_sizeType=MS#start=1&sz=36
Anon
Perhaps a minority opinion here, but I’m returning them, they may say the right things but they look like cheap flannel old navy pants and the cut is frumpy.
Anonymous
Talbots is completely frumpy on me.
Anon
I’m also shopping for work shoes right now and having trouble finding 100% leather from brands that always used to have leather! I got a pair of loafers from Sam Edelman that I like so far.
PolyD
Ugh. I hate hate hate plastic shoes. I don’t understand why Rothys are so popular, unless there’s some new kind of shoe plastic that doesn’t result in your feet swimming in little shoe-pots full of sweat.
Yesterday I pulled a scarf out of my closet, one of the big square lightweight types we wore in the early-mid 2000s (it was in the mid 50s here yesterday, so appropriate weather). I don’t know how old it is but the label says Ann Taylor Loft, instead of just Loft, so maybe at least 10 years old? The fiber contents are 94% wool and 6% silk. Now, I was making a decent salary 10 years ago, but not anything like lawyer money, and I bet I just casually bought this scarf, I certainly did not agonize over it as an investment piece or anything.
I can’t even imagine finding anything like that at a store like Loft now!
Anon
To be fair, Rothy’s are a totally different concept than the $44 pleather loafers OP bought. I’m not the biggest fan either, but they’re a different kind of material and they’re up front with that. You can’t really expect real leather at the FS price point these days.
Anon
PSA: some Rothys are made of wool. Unfortunately not the flats any more though.
Anon
The only shoes I’ve gotten since like 2018 that have been good quality have been from Ferragamo (loafers) and Coclico (sandals and boots). I was always a “why would you spend that much on shoes” person, but I cannot wear synthetic leather because my feet smell horrible, and it’s become impossible to find all leather shoes. I’ve just been leaning in to paying way too much and then wearing them for years and years.
Anonymous
Marc Fisher is still leather.
Anon
MGemi, Sarah Flint, Freda Salvador, Cole Hazan, Stuart Weitzman, lots of random Anthropologie brands, Sezane, even JCrew, etc all make leather shoes that are great quality. You won’t typically find them at bargain basement prices, but they’re not designer either.
Anon @ 9:46
Thanks for this list — I am saving it and will look there next time I need shoes! Would love to pay less than Ferragamo prices but still get quality…
Anon
Of the list, my absolute favorites are from Freda Salvador. They’re sometimes on sale and you can snag something you’ve had your eye on, but popular styles sell out. They last for years looking brand new and I’m hard on shoes.
Anonymous
Ecco makes great boots
anon
My Ecco boots are my favorites. Pricey, but they are real leather and have lasted years.
Anon
+1 to Ecco, their shoes are fantastic quality and real leather.
Runcible Spoon
ECCO makes a great classic heeled pump, the M35 model, that has a leather upper and –this is key — a leather “sock liner.” It also comes in a wide version, which is important to me and my feet. The less expensive version, the just plain 35 model, has a synthetic “sock liner,” which makes all the difference. The catch is that the M35 model has been out of stock or unavailable for some time now, so I am worried that ECCO has discontinued it.
Anon
Also, Paul Green and the Office of Angela Scott, generally have leather uppers and linings.
PolyD
They are not the most stylish, but Clarks and Rockport make leather shoes. Also Comfortiva and probably Taos.
What’s really annoying is when the non-leather shoes creep up or over $100. That just seems wrong.
Anonymous
Add Kate Spade and Coach to the leather list.
Velma
I also bought a pair of chunky loafers this fall. I didn’t realize they are synthetic until I wore them and my feet sweated. I haven’t knowingly bought plastic shoes since high school. They weren’t expensive, but I regret the $65 I spent.
Runcible Spoon
They just don’t make chunky loafers that retail for $65 anymore, that price point would have been my first clue.
Runcible Spoon
I meant to say they don’t make chunky LEATHER loafers that retail for $65 anymore.
Anonymous
I wanted to say that I bought a pair of Tory Burch ballet loafers on a whim and I like them a lot. They feel like absolute butter right out of the box. I know people detest that brand as wannabe luxe but there is nothing wannabe about how much I like the feel of them. I’ve been thinking about clothes a lot lately so below are some thoughts on shoes.
Im considering more high end shoes these days. On the one hand, hundreds maybe even a thousand dollars on shoes seems crazy. My mindset was always that those were justifiable only if you wore them for decades. But really, if I reasonably see myself wearing something for more than three years it’s looking more and more reasonable to spend multiples of what a mall brand costs.
I’m somewhat minimalist by preference in that I hate the idea of having clothing stuffed into random closets all over my house, so that’s probably also skewing my outlook. I can also reasonably afford nicer things even if the price seems shocking. I think the nice people at ferragamo and Gucci are going to get a visit from me soon.
Anon
I was just looking at some Naturalizer boots I liked the look of, then saw the label : 100% man made. Pass.
anon
Naturalizer has really gone downhill. That used to be one of my sources for work shoes but the materials have become increasingly bad.
Anon
It was fantasy shopping for me. I have one foot in a sneaker and the other foot in a surgical boot and it will be this way for quite a while, then probably 3 months in a sneaker-like shoe. :(
Anonymous
Not who you’re responding to but I hope you treat yourself to some amazing sneakers and get well soon.
Anon
Get well soon! I was in a boot for 3 months, too, for a broken ankle. Tip, make sure your sneaker is the same height as the boot, or you’ll end up with back pain from walking crooked. I learned the hard way!
Anon
Thanks both of you! I am wearing the current left sneaker with no variation because it’s exactly the right height!
Mine was what looked like a stress fracture of the 5th metatarsal, so 4 weeks in the boot, then about 4 weeks in supportive shoes (I am so sick of these sneakers!), back to the doctor to ask why it’s still hurting, and now it’s a bona fide fracture – an avulsion fracture. So I am on the 3rd week of re-booting and also going in for a dexa/bone scan to figure out why the breaking…. Doc also said this time it’s supportive shoes for 3 months post boot!
Trish
I wore my fairly new LifeStride clunky black shoes today and they were so uncomforable. I wonder how much I would have to pay for comfy shoes of the same quality that I used to get in Life Stride and Naturalizer. I guess Stuart Weitzman prices?
Anon
I think everyone underestimates the cost of quality clothing because everyone thinks they deserve new stuff all the time.
Trish
Mmm. No. I remember the 80s when clothes were very expensive compared to the cost of housing and cars. During the past few decades, we have been able to purchase decent clothing at a reasonable price. I could afford wool suits for my job that required suits at JCrew or Banana. I don’t even know where to buy a decent wool suit now. We deserve clothes that won’t fall apart and are made of good materials. Our great-grandmothers had that much, even if they only had a handful of dresses.
Anon
This is why I buy shoes on eBay and at thrift stores. I’m much more likely to find all-leather shoes this way. I will *not* buy “man-made soles” for anything any more. Not worth it.
Travel Outfit
Please help! I have an early morning 6 hour flight for a work event next week that includes an overnight stay and am trying to only have an under-the-seat carry on (like a backpack). I think that means I need to wear an outfit that can go directly to a client event while I am on the plane so I can avoid packing that outfit. I’m thinking a stretchy dress and something like an MMF jardigan would work well, but the jardigans are expensive and I’m not sure how often I’ll wear it (I mostly WFH and am super casual). Any alternatives I should look at?
Anon
I’ve been in your shoes, and I’ve taken a blazer in my carry on and basically pack clothes around it to prevent creases. I lay the blazer down and fold it in half so the sleeves meet. I put clothes in between the blazer body and sleeves, lay the sleeves down on top, then I roll it all up.
Anon
Why stay with an under the seat bag? Just take a normal carryon. For a six hour flight there should be decent bin space. These days I just never travel with only what I need because delays and unplanned extra nights are common. Plus it’s nice to have something to change into or to change your mind.
Travel Outfit
Good point. I am nervous about bin space because on another flight I was on recently I had to place stuff in a bin several rows back from my seat, which is a pain when deplaning, and I hate hate checking stuff and then waiting for it at baggage claim. I am traveling with a senior (female, if it matters) partner who I want to make a good impression on and don’t want to look bad or slow us down.
Anon
As the senior female partner here, I’d put this worry away. I’d never travel so light and wouldn’t care at all if you end up having to check. If you’re really worried about it, just buy an upgrade to your seat for earlier boarding. You can do this outside of what your company pays for, just go out your info in the airline’s site and pay for it yourself.
Anon
As the senior female partner here, I’d put this worry away. I’d never travel so light and wouldn’t care at all if you end up having to check. If you’re really worried about it, just buy an upgrade to your seat for earlier boarding. You can do this outside of what your company pays for, just go out your info in the airline’s site and pay for it yourself.
Anon
I have actually been impatient with colleagues who checked their luggage. Two separate times, a guy I was traveling with checked a big bag and we had to wait around for it – a long time! In both cases it was a 2 night trip. Why do you need a giant checked bag for that??
Anon
You know I was impatient until I got a little older. I hate struggling with a bag, even carry-on sized and it can throw out my back so I check it. I just give grace to people when traveling in a group, and I also have no problem telling someone to go on without me. We don’t have to do everything together.
Anecdata
Honestly I would not worry about the impression on senior partner, unless there is some kind of insider knowledge at your company that senior partner has some very weird bug in their bonnet about this. Having more than under-the-seat luggage is very very common for business travel. Bring the clothes that make you feel comfortable and polished and ready for the impressive high quality client work you’re known for, and /that/ is what will impress the senior partner
Cat
I’d be the senior person here and please just use a regular carryon rather than cramming everything into a backpack from toiletries to your change of clothes. Everyone understands bin space issues. Just don’t check!
Anokha
+ 1 for this. Don’t check your bag, but it’s reasonable to use a regular carry-on in this situation and I would not be annoyed as the senior person if you were forced to check it.
Anon
Just go with a suitcase carry on – these worries happen very infrequently.
Anonymous
There are so many workarounds to the bag thing:
– Pay a little extra for an earlier boarding group. If you fly with the same airline often then it might make sense to get their cc that gives you automatic priority boarding.
– when you check in for your flight, you should be able to see your boarding group. If it’s group 7+, and you don’t have a super tight connection, try to change your seat to be toward the back of the plane, or at least not close to the front, so you have more opportunity to stow your bag along the way
– if you can’t change your seat, see if you can valet your bag (so you pick it up on the bridge) instead of checking it through to baggage check – not always available but they’ll sometimes do this on smaller plates.
– when you board, if you see that overhead space is filling up then put your bag in the first open space you see even if it’s nowhere near your seat
– if you must stow your bag several rows behind your seat then just wait until everyone else deplanes. It’s still faster than bag check.
Anon
I’m a senior partner type position here and board with Group 1 because of my airline status. I would happily encourage you to board with me to avoid this problem – just as the senior partner did for me when I started. Agreed with advice here to purposefully sit a few rows further back to increase chances of sitting near your bag.
Anonymous
I think it’s more professional to have another outfit in case you sweat or something spills on you or you get wrinkled. If they gate check because of lack of bin space, that’s not all that much time. Much different than fully checking a bag and having to go to the baggage carousel. It’s strange not to have a normal carry-on given that length of trip.
Anon
+1. I used to do out-and-back-in-a-day trips on a 2-hour (each way) flight, and I would still take a carryon in case I got stuck and had to stay overnight – which actually happened a couple of times, either because we didn’t get our work done in one day like we thought and had to stay over, or flights got canceled. I had been advised to do this by a more-senior person who told me that she got stuck once having to do a presentation to company leadership in an outfit she’d been wearing for two days (including on the plane flight out), because she hadn’t brought anything with her.
These days, air travel is so unpredictable, I would never want to be a 6-hour flight from home without an extra change of clothes, a jacket, and enough toiletries/necessities to get me through an extra night (which would hopefully be in a hotel and not an airport!) if it came down to it.
Anon
+1 I always bring an extra shirt (like a lightweight stretchy sleeveless shell that folds into nothing and doesn’t wrinkle) for work, even when it’s a one day trip. I’m too messy to risk it. Also, who hasn’t spilled something on the plane?
Anonymous
A lot of times, gate checked bags are checked all the way through to baggage check, but it’s definitely worth it to see if they’ll just valet it so you can pick it up right at the bridge.
Anon
You could use a large tote/duffel/weekender type bag for your overhead bin bag. They are easier to squeeze in small openings so I’ve found that gate agents have been less likely to make me gate check those bags than a regular square overhead bin bag.
Anon Wool
WoolX, Wool&, Etc. so many choices for merino clothes! I’d like to get some merino leggings, a tee that could stand in its own or be a base layer, and maybe a dress. I go weekend camping some and hate being cold and am outside in cold months a lot for dog walks. Bonus if items could also work in a casual office. Where would you start? If it matters, am pear-shaped with a tummy.
Panda Bear
I’m shaped like you and have leggings and a long sleeve tee from WoolX. The leggings were a bit loose in the waist for my ‘normal’ size, but are stretchy and thick enough that I felt comfortable sizing down for casual wear. Very cozy and have washed well.
Anon
SmartWool is the golf standard here.
Hootster
I can’t speak to the other brands, but I’ve been a long-time smartwool fan. Their stuff lasts forever.
Panda Bear
Agree – it is frustrating! I find that it’s less about the brand per se, but hunting through any particular brand’s offerings to find the rare items. Talbots, for example – I recently bought a pair of 99% wool pants with a lining, which used to be a standard offering at mall brands, even in spring and summer seasons. Now, they are rare so I snap them up when I can. Same thing with shoes the loafers you mention. I can’t rely on what they used to be like, so I’m careful about reading the descriptions to try to find out what they are made of.
Writing Retreat Update
Thanks for everyone’s feedback a week or two ago about a writing retreat that accepted me. For context, a colleague had posted about this retreat on LinkedIn, I applied, and was accepted but hesitated about the price tag.
I listened to your comments and emailed the organizer a few questions over email. She answered, and I wrote back with another question, so I thought the conversation was ongoing. I was surprised when she responded a week later saying she gave my spot away to someone else who paid the deposit before me. Definitely sounds sketchy, and I’m glad I didn’t pay the $2500 fee + airfare. It sounds like her priority was selling spots, not taking the most promising talent. I’m disappointed, but I’m going to research other writing retreats.
Anon Wool
IDK that I’d be that harsh but I can often hash a lot out in a call vs constant emails. I have some camping weekends that I organize and often think that someone who emails a lot is at best a maybe and if others commit, things may fill up and it’s not fair to hope that every maybe becomes a yes. If you’d otherwise go, maybe next time jump sooner or do something local with lower overhead. It’s fine to decline also.
Anonymous
Are you charging people $2500 for these camping weekends? Totally reasonable to be asking questions at that pricing.
Anon
FWIW, when we have group camp spots, we have a truly finite amount of spaces, so when they are gone, they are gone. And a lot to coordinate with meals, coolers, etc., so if I’m getting e-mail after e-mail from someone before committing, I’m a bit annoyed and almost relieved if someone else takes the space sooner. It’s not that spendy by any means, but someone had to start organizing a year in advance for some locations and front the funds for that.
anon
I work adjacent to events planning, and … this. Of course the organizer should be responsive to questions to a point, but it’s pretty easy to tell when someone is not going to commit in a timely manner or flake out altogether. If you have more than 1-2 simple questions, you need to have an actual conversation.
Anon88
I get what you’re saying here but if this was a legitimate writing retreat that someone was “accepted” to and not a money-grab they shouldn’t have any problem answering multiple rounds of questions.
Writing Retreat Update
This was my thinking. Also, I posted here to thank the posters who gave me thoughtful feedback about the actual retreat. Not to relitigate my decision or whether I’m needy. Maybe I am, and that’s OK, because this is something I’ve never done before, and I don’t have real life writers in my network. If a retreat is more interested in selling spaces and admitting more people than spaces, it is not for me. I got great feedback, particularly from a poster in an MFA program, which I appreciated.
Anon88
I am the poster in the MFA, so I’m glad to hear you found my feedback helpful :)
Anon
In another area, I’m a consultant and if someone keeps asking me a bunch of questions about what I do or wants to “pick my brain” multiple times about their project without paying, I stop returning their calls. They’re not going to pay me. They’re just going to waste my time.
Cat
I think the organizer would have been better to let you know that remaining spots were limited (although can also see how that would be hard to convey in a way that didn’t feel sales-y pressure-y), but don’t blame them for ultimately letting fully-paid customers fill up the spots while you were still thinking about it, esp. if had been a week since the last contact and this is for something that’s happening in a few weeks.
Writing Retreat Update
It’s in March 2024, and I had also asked for a 15 minute call in the first email. The 2 emails I sent with questions were within a few days.
Anon
But you still had questions the other who were willing to pay a deposit did not.
Writing Retreat Update
That’s fair. Having organized events before, I’m surprised there wasn’t any communication about a deadline to make a decision or spaces being limited after being accepted. Just wasn’t meant to be!
Anon
It seems needy and like you are not likely to commit. I can’t imagine doing this for a conference or continuing Ed class I have to fly to (often the room block goes fast and you can still go, you will just be staying somewhere less convenient or more expensive). And I bet a weekend writing workshop is a lot more hands on with the teacher, so there are likely much fewer slots than what I go to. Maybe if you want to go seriously ask on the front end so you can get a slot if you are offered a slot.
Writing Retreat Update
See, it was a bugger commitment than a local weekend. its a 5 day retreat in another country. I did apply and was accepted. I don’t think its needy to ask a few questions in 2 emails over 1 week before making that decision to accept.
Anon
My work conferences are easily 3 days of classes and events, plus client events maybe the day before or after, so easily 4-5 days. I’ve never asked a question in 15 years of industry and client events. I can check the weather, look up events, plan my own events and meetups. I cannot imagine having so many questions. For grad school, I visited schools and cannot remember reaching out ever after visiting.
Anon
I’m glad that some people have never asked a question about a conference or event. I always have to ask about food because of a common, medically necessary dietary restriction. That was email 1. Would this restriction be accomodated? If not, do I have access to a refrigerator to bring my own food? There is no information about meals or dietary accomodations on the website.
Email #2 was asking to hop on a quick 15 minute call. I said I’d like to hear more about the sessions because the agenda says nothing other than a title for each session. There’s no info about content, faculty members/presenters, expected outcomes, etc. These are questions that arose from my original post on this website.
She responded to email #1. She didn’t respond to email #2 until a week later and said the spaces were all full by people who paid.
Cat
Have you ever worked on a conference? Now that I know it’s not for 5-6 months the idea that they have detailed agenda by topic and speaker already is not realistic, even for something that costs $ to attend.
Anonymous
Sounds like you dodged a bullet with that one. It’s getting harder and hard to distinguish between for profit vs true education..
Anon
Yeah this sounds scammy. Fine to do it if you’re looking for a writing-themed vacation but it doesn’t sound like a real retreat that’s going to further your writing career.
Anonymous
I’m no expert in writing retreats but my background is in visual arts, and in that field, there are artist residency programs that run the gamut between free + you get a stipend to very expensive. The latter aren’t necessarily a scam, but they are of course much easier to get into. When I was still making art while working full-time I found residencies helpful because they force you to put time into your work and also give you community. My favorites provided communal meals, which is a good way to get to know your fellow residents. In general, I think it is a good idea to do some googling to see if you can find reviews or feedback from past participants to get a sense of what the vibe of a place is (e.g., lots of parties vs. very studious), who their typical participants are (e.g. age, level of professionalism, type of work, etc), and whether it would be a good fit for you. BTW, some residency programs take both writers and visual artists, so you might find this website helpful: https://ratemyartistresidency.com/.
Anonymous
Also https://artistcommunities.org/directory/residencies
Writing Retreat Update
Thanks for the links!
Anon
Make sure you’re clear about what you’re getting out of a writer’s retreat before you commit to going to any of them. If you want to be in community with other writers, get feedback on your writing, and learn some new mechanics/techniques – retreats are great. If you’re looking to make connections to find a publisher or agent, that rarely happens at retreats. And yes, most retreats are for-profit and are expensive and promise very little in terms of results, because they can’t legitimately promise you will get an agent or publisher after attending the retreat – your writing may not be good enough or you may not write the kind of books that sell. My husband is a published author, with an agent (writing is still not his full-time job, just FYI) and he got his agent by sending out queries. In his early days of writing his novels, he went to a few retreats and conferences and while he met some nice people, in terms of helping him move his writing career along, they were mostly a waste of time and money.
Anon
Personally, I would never expect a retreat, even a highly prestigious one, to be the magical key to my writing career. But, I would absolutely go on any that looked interesting as I firmly believe that spending real time on your hobbies is a good use of time and money. Especially if you’re single, traveling to a writers retreat for a week can be a great way to go somewhere with company, make friends with similar interests, see a new place, and generally open your mind. Not everything has to max out ROI or be career advancing.
Anon
But many of the people my husband went to writers’ retreats with did think that by paying $3500 for a long weekend working on their writing with other writers, they would make connections that would lead to them becoming the next Stephen King or James Patterson, and were disappointed when it didn’t happen. It’s great that YOU don’t think that “everything needs an ROI” but some people absolutely do feel that way, especially if the money they’re paying to attend the retreat is financially a stretch for them. So.
Anon
Well that is a very naive presumption they had.
Anonymous
I think Anon at 11:25 gives great advice. Success in creative fields is so rare that it can be really hard to figure out what realistic expectations are for achieving it – there’s not an obvious pathway. You don’t just need talent, hard work and the right training, you also really need a lot of luck and connections. Figuring out where you are likely to get those connections, if anywhere, is key.
Anon
This. Writing can be a hobby that grows into a thing or not, but it won’t happen in a vacuum most likely. I run, and will pay to enter races and even travel to an event or city I want to visit. It’s not magically transformative, but I’m better off for having done it and I do what is in budget (time and $) for me. It forces me to invest in the effort and focus on that, so maybe any writing event will help you along the way. It doesn’t need to be a big spendy one or series of them.
Anon
I agree. Every aspiring writer needs to read Bird by Bird by Anne Lamott. You write because you must write. Not because you have a business plan.
Anonymous
I suspect if you responded with something like, oh no I really want to go please take my money!, she would miraculously find a spot for you.
Leatty
How do you support/care for a loved one with dementia from afar? My mom has quickly developed moderately severe dementia caused by a series of strokes. Right now, she still seems well enough to be left alone during the day, and my dad is caring for her when he isn’t working. I live a plane ride away, but plan to call and visit as much as possible. Beyond that, does anyone have any suggestions?
Anonymous
Yes she needs to be in care during the day. Can you research for your father in home help and also elder day care programs and respite care near him?
Anon
Try care.com – we used them to hire someone to look in on my father in law and do errands and other as needed things. They have a whole senior care section. We also live across the country and that’s been a great resource.
Anon
I am going through this right now. The absolute best thing we ever did was get the power of attorney forms signed while she was still able to sign them. Hopefully you have those in place already. The second best thing was getting help from a home visitor and now an assisted living facility (my relative is unmarried, no kids). We originally thought she would be able to stay home for longer but now I wish we had helped her move sooner.
Anon
POA for healthcare, now, while she is competent to execute. This this this. Make this your priority. Right now. This will enable y’all to smoothly implement her future care.
Anon
Yup. Trust me, EVERYTHING will be easier down the road. Do it today if you can. You can download a template from your state.
Senior Attorney
Yes to this! Also get yourself on the bank accounts if you can. It will make everything SO MUCH EASIER later on. And if you are in different states, do forms for both states.
Of Counsel
I would expect some push back from Dad (who is still working so presumably not that old) about putting his adult child on his bank accounts. I love my (adult) daughter, but would never open my personal accounts up to potential collections if she ended up in debt, even aside from the privacy issues. I would recommend consulting a trusts and estate attorney if they have not already taken care of this.
In terms of helping with physical care, she might be fine to be home alone now but that is not likely to last (I presume she has had several TIAs?) If you can help you father find a geriatric social worker who can connect them to resources that would be a huge help. She is likely to need someone to stay with her soon and possibly home health visits. Depending on where you live the state or local government might have a department of aging that can at least help with resources.
Good luck. This is really hard and you have my deepest sympathies.
Senior Attorney
Yes, that’s a good point. With the power of attorney you can get on the bank accounts when the time comes, in any event.
Anne-on
I’d ask whatever hospital she’s at for the social services/patient services team. I’d start there to ask for their help in arranging in home support, respite care, etc. – it’s likely that some of that may be covered by your parent’s insurance or state programs. I would focus on trying to lock down some additional support for your mom so that your dad has that network in place ASAP to stave off burnout as much as possible.
I’d also ask your dad if he’d like your help with legal documents if you think he’d be open to it and if those aren’t in place already. I’d ask the hospital for help identifying care centers with memory care units, it’s possible that your dad may need to explore that road sooner rather than later. I’m sorry you’re going through this, it’s really hard.
Anonymous
Good advice here, with one caveat – you’re likely to find that very little of this is covered by others -expect to have to go out of pocket and be pleasantly surprised if you don’t, unless they qualify for Medicaid and live in a state that provides for it.
Anonymous
you may want to call the mayor’s office where she lives and ask about senior services — my very small town (10,000 people) has a ton of senior-citizen focused things, from free welfare calls and checks to meals-on-wheels and other activities during the day.
Anonymous
I’ve found some of the recent finance threads fascinating. I’m curious for those who are partnered/married whether your finances are joint or separate, and how/why you made that particular decision.
Our finances are joint. We got together young so I think that’s part of it – we didn’t really have any money to think of as separate when we got together. We both took out loans for grad school but we were together when we made the decision to go to grad school so the debt was essentially a joint decision. I like having joint finances because we maximize for our overall family lifestyle (e.g., I worked in a high hours, high paying job while he was in residency; I scaled back when he graduated residency so we could have kids but our earnings stayed the same).
Anon
I’m one of the totally combined posters and we actually never really had a big conversation about it. We started off with a joint checking account when we moved in together and over time it became 100% combined. We don’t do any “allowances” or “fun money” – it’s all open to either of us and we discuss big purchases jointly. I would never do it any other way because it’s just so dang easy. I once read a thread here (many years ago) about a woman and her partner who would not only split the grocery bill, but examine the receipt to split it along the lines of who ate what. I remember thinking life doesn’t have to be that hard.
Anon
100% joint. We’re a team, so why should we keep our money separate?
anon
This is where we land. 100% joint. Cannot fathom having to do the whole what is mine vs yours dance. I know it works for some but it’s among the more perplexing concepts I’ve run in to in adult life.
Anon
That’s how I feel too. I think people should make whatever choices work for them, but I’ve tried and failed to see the unique benefits of split finances in a marriage. Every benefit I’ve heard (“we don’t have to monitor each other’s fun money”) is also available in a shared arrangement with a lot less logistical hassle, and it seems to have a lot of big downsides. Obviously others see it differently and that’s fine – but it does perplex me.
Anon
100% it seems way overly complicated to me. Team joint. We are a team and not all contributions to our finances are pure dollars so how do you even track that.
I have out earned my husband for our entire marriage, small at first and now by a huge multiples amount. But I also brought student debt to the table. We jointly paid that off. He also has fabulous health insurance that saves us a ton of money because I only have expensive not great options at my job. I have a very greedy job that I couldn’t do without him having a more flexible job even with tons of outsourcing, etc.
Putting aside logistics of the day to day, I’ve always been confused by split finances when making big decisions like whether to move for a job. Those are tough choices anyways, I can’t imagine adding into the equation having to figure out how each persons finances would be affected.
Anon
+1
anon
Same. What we do affects each other, and we are teammates. Also, I completely don’t understand how couples make the logistics of separate finances work once kids are in the picture.
Anon
Joint. We also got together young, but barring some exceptional circumstance I can’t understand why you would join your lives but not your finances (at least in a first marriage). For a time, we had the main pot and then separate small individual accounts with allotted “personal money” for some flexibility, but we each had the same budgeted dollar amount instead of obsessing over fair percentages.
Having joint funds allows us more flexibility and cooperation in how we structure our family. He came into the marriage with student loans and little savings; I had no loans and decent savings. That allowed us to pay off his loans and make headway in saving for a house. Now, I’m a SAHM and he’s contributing the money to our accounts, obviously — though SAHPs contribute a lot of intangible savings, like everything a dual-worker family might outsource, which is another reason splitting finances and bean counting seems absurd to me. How do you determine the value of cleaning the bathrooms or cooking the meals?
There’s never been resentment, and we realize that life is long and the pendulum of who contributes “more” will swing back and forth.
Anon
100% joint. We married later in life – early 40s for both of us. I didn’t get married to a lot of people before my husband in part because I didn’t want to be teamed up with them financially for life, which is what marriage is. By combining we can achieve shared goals and capitalize on that aspect of marriage. We also don’t have conflicts like OP does because it’s our money. His family is also mine and vice versa. I’m team you’re all-in on a marriage or don’t bother and stay single and have relationships and fun or whatever you’d like, but don’t muddy your financial picture unless that’s the right fit too.
Anon88
Separate accounts, but operate as a team. We got together very young but have always been somewhat independent about money. He’s a big budgeter and I play it kind of loosey goosey. We don’t have or want kids so that’s not a factor. Separate checking accounts and credit cards, joint savings for big life purchases (house, vacations, etc.). We don’t split hairs or keep track of how we split things besides bills. More like, he’s been paying for dinners out lately so I’ll get groceries. I paid for the hotel on vacation so he paid for all the meals and excursions. If one of us is running low on cash we borrow or take money from the joint savings and give the other person a heads up.
So I guess we kind of consider all the money as both of ours, but kept in separate accounts. This works out for fun purchases, because I don’t feel like he’s spending “my” money on a $500 keyboard and I don’t feel like I have to ask his “permission” to buy myself a big ticket item either.
anon4this
Longer comment below, but this is very similar to my husband and me (except I’m the budgeter). Your last line really resonates with me – I feel like I can’t eloquently explain it, but I actively like not seeing the random purchases my husband makes that don’t pertain to us (lunches when he’s at work, clothes, hobby stuff, whatever).
Anon
Cosign your comment and Anon88’s. This is how we work it. It works for us.
I think one of the things I’m learning from the posts about the situation with the three houses is that there’s a difference between having “separate finances” and “joint finances in separate accounts.” We have “yours, mine and ours” accounts but we see all the money as joint. We don’t make purchases over $500 without discussing it with the other person first – even gifts that size and over are negotiated in advance.
I also do not want to see details on random minutiae of my husband’s financial life. I can go in “his” account (which I jointly own) and see what he’s spending money on. I also have the login to “his” credit card, and he has my logins also. We have the logins to each other’s 401k and IRA accounts. Etc. I don’t know how to explain this either, but – I don’t need my husband’s micro financial decisions clogging up my mental airspace. We make almost equal amounts of money and we check in with each other a few times a year regarding bill splits, savings contributions, etc. to make sure both parties still think things are being fairly accounted for. And if we need to make adjustments, we do. My husband is an easygoing guy about money – he’s relatively frugal but also doesn’t really “get” stuff like investing because he came from a single-parent family where money was scarce. I handle our long-term investing and major expenses, and saving for college, and as long as I keep him informed he’s cool with whatever I think we need to do to be financially healthy over the long term.
Will also add: both my maternal and paternal grandfathers were kind of footloose-and-fancy-free with money. One was contractor who built houses – a notoriously up-and-down industry. The other was a traveling salesman with a weakness for get-rich-quick schemes. Both my maternal and paternal grandmothers worked, because if they did not, their families sometimes would not have been able to eat, or have housing. It was hammered into me, from an early age, that “the safest thing is for a woman to work and have her own money” and as a result I get hives thinking about the idea of putting my entire paycheck in a shared account. From the time I was knee-high to a grasshopper I heard horror stories of someone going to pay a bill and whoops! No money in the bank because someone had used it to buy land in some kind of sweetheart deal that never quite panned out, or had bought shares in a nonexistent gold mine. I love my husband, I trust my husband, but it was seeded into me young to always make sure my end was covered so I could feed my kid on my own, if I had to. My grandmothers gave me diamonds when I got married specifically so I could pawn them if I had to. So that’s the perspective I’m coming from and I understand if other people came from a less paranoid, Chicken-Little-the-sky-is-falling background.
anon4this
“I don’t need my husband’s micro financial decisions clogging up my mental airspace” – this is a great way to describe this! Exactly how I feel. And it sounds like my husband and I have similar approaches/personalities to yours. We don’t have a specific dollar threshold for discussing purchases, but I think for anything particularly expensive, we tend to want the other person’s input for non-financial reasons anyway, so it happens naturally.
Anonymous
I love the anecdote about your grandfathers. I commented below that we live well below our means and I think this is the result of my dad being a salesman. He always said you never live as good as your good years so you never live as bad in your bad years. It’s funny that he gave me the opposite perspective with his boom or bust lifestyle.
Anon
That doesn’t really sound like a team approach if you’re dividing up the costs of meals. I’m not saying your approach is “wrong” – do whatever works for you. But if you still think of “my money” and “his money” and “permission,” that’s not really a team approach.
Anon88
Just to be clear we’re not dividing up the cost of meals. We take turns paying because we keep separate accounts, but we also don’t keep close track of whose “turn” it is to pay, we just say “oh I got this one.” Also I don’t really think it’s for strangers to say whether we have a team approach to our finances or not!
Anon
But you posted here for public discussion, right?
Anon88
OP asked if people keep joint or separate finances. I’m literally just answering the question, I didn’t ask anyone for their opinion on how I do it.
anon4this
Everyone gets to decide what “team approach” means for their relationship – there’s not an objective definition for partnership.
anon
We got married in our 20s and didn’t make a lot of money. We combined everything pretty soon afterwards. I still have my original bank accounts in my name, but just keep minimal amounts there to keep the accounts open.
We have a joint checking and savings and investment accounts together. We have 401Ks through our jobs and separate Roth IRAs that we contribute to.
I make more than my husband. We’ve been married 24 years now. No kids. My husband is a musician so he’s spent money over the years on music equipment and instruments, but we always discuss big purchases like that in advance.
Anon
We kept our pre-marriage bank accounts and credit cards, but we also have joint accounts that we use for the bulk of our savings and spending. We view all money as “ours” and make all major decisions together, but don’t really monitor what we do with our individual accounts (we don’t have allowances or anything, we just trust each other to be reasonable). We’ve both taken turns moving for the other and being unemployed, so I can’t imagine doing anything other than combined finances. I also think it’s really helped motivate us to focus on saving, as our first budget item has been retirement and other joint savings, rather than dividing expenses.
anon4this
My husband and I maintain entirely separate accounts (checking, savings, retirement), though we have one joint asset (our house). We also have one joint credit card that we use for all “joint” expenses (groceries, utilities, kid expenses, gifts that come from both of us, etc.) which we split each month. This has never made me feel like we are less of a “team” in our marriage. We still talk about financial priorities and long term planning (and my husband was the first to suggest providing financial support for someone in my family) to make sure our goals are aligned/we’re as prepared as we can be for the future, but this just works better for us in terms of the day-to-day management. I track every penny I spend (and have for decades) and he is more “I just spend less than I make and save as much as I can,” (which works for him! he has tons saved for retirement/a well-funded emergency account).
I think the reality is that – as with many things – there are a lot of different ways to manage this and I think people should just do whatever makes the most sense for them and their partnership. I’ve literally had people say to me, “It’s not a really partnership if you don’t combine your finances,” or imply that it means we each have one foot out the door, when in reality I think my husband and I are actually stronger financial partners than some couples I know who go the “one pot,” route. It’s more about being intentional and finding what works for you.
Anon
Same here – each have different accounts and we get paid on those, but then transfer money to a joint account and use that for common expenses. But we also have full transparency and generally view everything (both assets and debt) as ours. We have a threshold that requires discussion (ie don’t spend more than 1k without talking to the other first). I was married before and the financial part was a disaster. Things I learnt from that are that it doesn’t matter exactly how you split, but it does matter that you are able to talk about it and are aligned on the general life goals and how to pay for those.
anon4this
Totally agree on your last sentence. I realized I should also add that in addition being on the same page about our spending/saving philosophies, we are super fortunate to make good salaries/have enough money to cover all of our expenses with leftover for savings, which obviously makes all of this MUCH easier just in general.
Anon88
I commented above and it irks me so much how judgmental people get about keeping separate accounts. It’s like, if you don’t fit in someone’s extremely rigid definition of what the “right” way to handle money is, you must have a bad marriage, or not actually like each other.
Anon
I mean, this whole thread today is in response to that horrific sounding situation from the last thread. Did it seem like that woman and her husband were on a team? I don’t think it’s judgmental to point out that being possessive or even selfish over finances when you’re in a marriage can be a sign of issues.
anon4this
Sure, but you can be possessive/selfish over money AND have completely combined finances. You can also be a great team/on the same page about money AND have absolutely nothing combined. The issue is the communication/respect/values, not whose name is on what accounts.
Anon
I’m actually not sure if you can be that selfish over money if you have a completely combined pool by choice. I think by MAKING that choice, it’s inherently unselfish. If someone said “we have a combined pool in name only but my husband is secretly trying to withdraw money for himself,” obviously that would be different.
Anon88
Keeping finances separate or together and having a good or bad marriage are two different topics in my opinion. There seems to be a large contingent of people who think it’s impossible to have separate finances and still have a good marriage, which doesn’t make sense to me.
Anon
“I don’t think it’s judgmental to point out that being possessive or even selfish over finances when you’re in a marriage can be a sign of issues.”
But people can have separate finances without either party being selfish, or possessive over finances. Automatically characterizing “separate” as “selfish” or “possessive” is pretty judgmental.
Anon
Well most of my friends who divorced or have significant issues and are on the way there have kept separate finances. I think it keeps the couple at arms length in a relationship because there’s a lot you never discuss when you take that approach. I’m glad it works for the people here and I’d never express this opinion to anyone in real life, but I don’t think it’s the best approach for a happy marriage. Obviously, ymmv.
Anon
I obviously don’t know the ins and outs of different people’s marriages, but there is a kind of separate finances marriage that is stands out when it comes up because it seems like a lot of bean counting and outcomes like one spouse going on vacation that year without the other spouse because of how $ was spent that year that is culturally foreign to my idea of family. To each their own, but my guess is that I am not just not aware of all the marriages where finances are separate and it’s not being offered as an explanation for things all the time.
Anon
Agree with anon at 12:50 – I’m only 31 so I only know one close couple friend who have divorced, but they kept separate finances. Not saying that always means it’s a red flag or that you can’t have a healthy relationship and keep things separate, but it can definitely signal a lack of viewing things as a team.
anon4this
I agree – people get VERY judgmental about this, which I don’t understand.
Anon
I think it’s more in response to issues raised than pure, raw judgment. There are always a lot of posts here and elsewhere about stress in a marriage when one partner makes less and the bills are divided, the cost of using “the woman’s salary” for childcare, the weekend post about not wanting to use the husband’s money for elder care, and a lot more. Those problems go away in a 100% combined pot. Those situations include other problems, sure, but as someone who has gone through a LOT of stress and complicated family situations in just the last year, I have to say I’m damn glad that worrying about spending “my” money down and having to ask my husband for “help” wasn’t added to my worry list.
Anon
Eh I don’t judge however people choose to handle their finances. I will say anecdotally that the people I know with fully separate finances (as opposed to some system where each person has some of their own money/investments/frivolous spending cash) all seem to have a lot of marital issues. I may know a lot more people with separate finances but the ones I know about in real life I only know about because it’s come up in conversations and those same people represent a large portion of people I know with unhappy marriages. Again this is based only on what people share so is not a great or scientific sample, but at least in my circle there’s a high correlation of people in unhappy marriages with people who keep their finances separate from their spouse.
Anonymous
Sorry, I’m the OP here and that is not how I meant this post to go. I don’t think there’s any one right or good way to manage finances; I genuinely like to hear about what other people do.
Also fascinatingly I realized that while I consider our finances joint some folks here would consider them separate! All our money goes into one savings account, but we each have separate credit cards that get paid out of the joint account.I could ask to see his line item expenses but I never bother – we agree on savings amounts which get auto debited out of our paychecks and pay for everything else out of what’s leftover.
Anon for this
100% joint but we married young, right out of law school where neither of us had significant assets that felt proprietary.
Anon
I was married before my current relationship, and our finances were totally joint. I significantly out earned him and considered everything ours as a couple. He considered me a piggy bank while he hid money and lined up a girlfriend on the side.
I’ve been with my current partner now longer than I was married to my ex. I do not want to get married again, but we live together and are fully committed. We do not have kids, and I’m sure things would be very different if we did. We keep our finances separate. I owned my home before he moved in, so I continue to pay for it. He does not pay me rent or anything like that, but covers most of our daily life expenses (groceries, dinner out, pet expenses, etc.) and he does a lot more general labor around the house than I do. Vacations we usually jointly fund, but will pay by category (i.e., I might cover flights while he does hotel, or similar). We each buy what we want and have separate investments. We are each others account/ insurance beneficiaries and have wills providing for each other as well as certain family.
I’m sure this would not work for a lot of people, but it has fallen into a natural pattern for us. I certainly pay more, but the house was and remains mine, and I would pay those costs with or without him. We have never fought about money and rarely even discuss it. Who knows how this may change as we age, but we are both reasonable people who don’t care to equalize things to the last penny, so hopefully it will continue to work. (Not saying people who do calculate things more closely are unreasonable, just that it isn’t something we want to do.)
Anon
But you’re not married so this makes total sense. I do not understand unmarried people combining finances or purchasing large assets like homes together.
Anonymous
A combination – we have separate checking and savings accounts that we’ve had since each of us was a teenager, and a joint checking and savings account. Paychecks go into the separate accounts and then a portion is transferred to the joint checking and savings account. Separate retirement accounts/HSA investment accounts because we each have those through work, some separate investment accounts (that we’ve each had since being kids and grandparents contributed to them), some joint investment accounts, but all investment accounts are under the management of the same financial planner. We each have a separate personal credit card (that we each got when starting college, so we keep those since they represent the longest credit history in each of our credit scores).
We have a kid, so I guess it could make more sense to have totally combined finances?
Honestly, the answer is probably 60% laziness and 40% that we each (until earlier this year) were paying for our student loans out of our personal accounts. But, like someone else mentioned, we’re “joined in spirit” and essentially all purchases happen after joint discussion with each other. I don’t know that we’re going to change it anytime soon because it would require updating account information lots of different places.
Anon
“Honestly, the answer is probably 60% laziness and 40% that we each (until earlier this year) were paying for our student loans out of our personal accounts. But, like someone else mentioned, we’re “joined in spirit” and essentially all purchases happen after joint discussion with each other. I don’t know that we’re going to change it anytime soon because it would require updating account information lots of different places.”
We’ve talked about just putting everything in one place, but the logistics of it seem daunting and like a lot of hassle given that we don’t have a problem with the way things are now. Like, I’m not a big fan of solutions that are in search of a problem. And I don’t believe in expending a lot of extra effort to adhere to someone else’s philosophical perspective about what constitutes a “true partnership” in a marriage. My husband actually does housework, manages his responsibilities, cleans up after himself (and me too, sometimes) and participates in parenting – in general, he carries his weight and then some – so I think that makes him more of a partner than many of the husbands I’ve seen described here, regardless of how we handle our money.
anon
We are almost entirely joint finances. We met at 19 when we were still in college and got married at 26 when I was in grad school and we had few assets. We’ve made all financial decisions together since we had any money to speak of. Over the past 14 years, the pendulum has swung from him working/ me in grad school, to both working with me as the higher earner, to him working with me being unemployed, to both working and making about the same. Right now, DH is a SAHD, so I’m bringing in income, but as another poster said, a SAHP contributes a lot of intangible savings, from childcare on sick days and holidays and teacher work days, to chauffeuring to multiple medical appointments every week (the reason he became a SAHD), to renovating our home, to cooking dinner every night, to shouldering everything when I go through busy periods at work so I can maximize earnings.
There are two exceptions. (1) We each have an account for “fun money. It’s usually around $1000 per year for each of us, and often comes from birthday and holiday checks from older relatives. This bit of money does help when one of us wants to do something or buy something that is just not a priority for the other person and maybe doesn’t make sense with our financial goals at the time. He’s used his to make up the difference between a normal laptop and a $3000 gaming laptop. I’ve used mine for a girls’ trip that we otherwise couldn’t really afford. (2) We each have a bit of money that we’ve inherited from grandparents that is separate property under our state’s law. The amounts aren’t huge (5 figures for me, low 6 figures for him), and we don’t touch them, so they make little difference in our day-to-day lives.
anon
Not truly joint or separate. Big income disparity – I make about 3x to 6x what he does depending on the year. What works for us, is that we keep separate checking and savings accounts, with combined account for the house, each pay our own student debt, and I pay the bulk of the household expenses. For longer term, we have a combined investment account, separate 401ks, and he has a separate investment account for his inheritance.
Anon
Separate. We don’t plan to have kids but do own a home together. We bank at the same place and have one joint account we use to pay the mortgage and home bills, maintenance, etc., all of which we split 50/50. We alternate weeks of paying for groceries and for things like meals out we don’t really worry about it. Our setup works great for us because we both have expensive tastes and hobbies so this way there is no resentment. A few times a year we check in on the bigger picture plan to make sure we’re on track with our individual (but agreed on) savings goals and any upcoming big ticket purchases. Outside of that the only restriction is that we have to get the other’s approval for any expenses over $1000, which I don’t think has ever been denied.
Cornellian
We basically have separate assets and joint day-to-day finances. I think where you are in life when you meet matters a lot. For me and my husband, when we met:
I had a 2 year old from a previous marriage, owned my home, had been an orphan for 20 years at that point, had saved for retirement for ten years, and was getting <500 annually support for the kid.
Husband had never saved for retirement, had a supportive upper middle class family that he'll inherit from, no kids, no real assets.
So what we do is basically keep my existing assets (retirement and then-existing house equity) separate and mush everything else together. I earn the overwhelming majority of our income, but we've had a second kid and he does a lot with the baby, as well as more house maintenance/supportive spouse stuff. I won't inherit anything, and he can do what he wants with his. I think keeping the day-to-day finances separate would be hard both in terms of practicality but also in terms of incentives. I took 3 months off when the baby was born, now he's home with her, etc. If we were each expected to contribute the same x% towards running our family while on leave, there could be some absurd results.
Anon
We are joint– part of this is that we roughly make the same amount. But when we lived together and were not sharing finances, we realized that not sharing finances led to us making really odd financial choices. Like, a significant amount of my salary went towards my students loan, and it was harder for me to save for my share of vacation or put money into retirement. Combining finances helped us better meet financial goals like paying off my loans and save for retirement, etc.
In contrast, my SIL and BIL do not combine finances, and we never really get what’s going on with them financially. BIL makes significantly more money than SIL. SIL has student loans. SIL is always commenting that she can’t afford things that should be within her family’s means, like a YMCA membership or swim lessons. Meanwhile, her husband drives a Porsche and routinely pays to drive it on special tracks etc. which is $$$.
Anonymous
That is wild. I have, my aunt and uncle and my cousin and his wife where the men are into racing cars and the women are really into designer fashion. I love admiring their clothes and jewelry and accessories but I always think racing cars much be VERY expensive to balance all this out.
Anon
Even non-racing hobby cars are VERY expensive.
Another reason I keep some of my money separate from my husband. He just does not need to be seeing that investments/savings balance number every day and thinking “what’s one more vintage sports car?” It’s our money at the end of the day, but he doesn’t have a password, and we’ve both agreed that’s best given our different styles.
Anon
We’re 100% joint. Second marriage for me, and third for him. He has kids from his last marriage and we have two young kids together. Neither of us had much debt coming into our marriage (student loans paid off; we each had a mortgage but sold my house), but he had alimony and financial support obligations in the low six figures (alimony is done now). He out earns me 7-10x depending on whether it’s a good bonus year.
I think some people in our situation (major financial obligations of one party; major income disparity) would have kept finances separate but we are fully joint. We do have a postnup and a (very complex) estate plan.
Anon
Finances were separate until kids, have been combined ever since. I do have a separate account for my bonuses/stock options because I play the market a little with that and I don’t need my husband breathing down my neck about it. But at the end of the day everything is in our trust including that account.
Anonymous
Our finances are separate, mostly because I earn much more, and have a much larger investment portfolio. Inertia plays a role, too. A rough guess is an 80 / 20 split. The house is also in my name. I pay for almost everything, including his health insurance. He pays for groceries, one utility, his hobbies, and dinner out once a week or so. I am much more interested in money and investing than he is. We discuss all big purchases, probably $500 or so but sometimes smaller amounts if it’s something frivolous. We don’t discuss to agree or disagree, but to get insights.
My estate is set up so that if I die first, he will always have a place to live with the bills paid. But, it’s in a trust so when he dies, the money goes to my family. As we get older, I’ll set up a joint account to pay for his Medigap insurance, Medicare costs etc.
It works for us as he’s not very interested in money, and I enjoy managing it. We never fight over money, but I do think that simply having enough money eliminates a lot of arguments. As I said last week, it’s our money, our home, and our family. Part of being married is his family is now mine, and vice versa.
Senior Attorney
We are 100% joint on the day-to-day stuff. The only thing that isn’t completely joint is that some but not all of my assets will go directly to my daughter when I die (he has no children). Most everything is in one name or the other but we are each the beneficiary of the other’s accounts. I am the family bookkeeper and we seem to do okay with kind of a running dialog on who’s spending how much on what. Big stuff (house projects, trips, large purchases) get discussed and we figure out a way to make it work.
We have quite similar net worth and now that we are retired I think our incomes will be similar. (We are hoping to make some money together in a joint mediation practice — fingers crossed on that!) I think it makes it all easier when the playing field is level in that way.
Why joint? It just seems right to me. We’re married, we’re a team — in for a penny, in for a pound.
Anonymous
Very controversial but we could easily live on my husband’s salary, he’s proud of that, and he pays nearly all the bills and lets me spend my much more modest salary however I please. Ive bankrolled a lot of big things that are luxuries like furniture and vacations and generally pay for everyones clothing and our groceries but he pays daycare and the mortgage and everything else. I pay for our healthcare and I also have income from family investments that I hand over to him to put in our joint savings and investments. We have conversations about our investments and big projects and we’re generally in agreement. Major purchases are always joint decisions. I think the reason this works is that we live way below our means and my husband is crazy frugal; there is no amount of money he could make where he’d feel comfortable splurging on nice clothes or a vacation so emotionally it’s easier that it comes from me. I fully realize that thing would be different if we were struggling financially.
Anonymous
My ideal would be to keep separate accounts and each contribute to a joint account where bills get paid. I would never, ever deposit my paycheck into an account with someone else’s name on it.
Anon @ 9:46
We’re entirely separate.
I was married before, in my early 20s when we had no money so everything was joint. I supported my ex through the second half of college, he supported me through law school, we were a team etc. I had gone to LS specifically to do public interest work and we knew what my salary would be going in, and I went to a lower ranked school because I got a scholarship. He was very much floundering at that point and we anticipated that I would be the breadwinner and we would be middle class (not upper), he would potentially be a SAHD. Then he inherited a bunch of money (grandparent) and had a career breakthrough (tech) at the same time, just as I was graduating law school and starting my public service job. At first he was all, what’s mine is yours, we’re a team, etc. But within a year of my graduating, he was earning 2x what I was, and he started complaining that I wasn’t earning enough and when was I going to get “a real job.” At this point, our household income was 4x what we had happily lived on when I was in LS, and we were not rich but comfortable, and significantly ahead of where we had expected to end up prior to his career change. I was saving aggressively for retirement but my ex refused to save because he “knew he was going to inherit money from his parents”. We had a kid together, and a few years later divorced. The money fights were not the primary reason but they didn’t help. During the divorce, all the money that he had contributed to what I thought were our join assets — home, car, savings account — he wanted to claw back, because apparently I “didn’t contribute”. AND he wanted half of my retirement accounts, because he didn’t have any retirement savings, and it wasn’t fair. I never in a million years would have expected any of this attitude when we first got married. I fought back (I had emails about the retirement savings argument!) but I didn’t have the war chest to fight much more, so I kept my retirement accounts and (after paying legal bills) walked out of the marriage with my clothes, books, and 50/50 custody of my kid. I had to borrow $10k from a friend to put down first month rent and a deposit on a one bedroom apartment and to buy furniture and housewares (I couldn’t leave it totally bare because of my kid). I eventually recovered financially by living frugally for years, and now have an emergency fund and a nice home and all that stuff. Most of friends don’t know exactly how badly screwed I was by the divorce, because I found it embarrassing to share that I was massively broke. Two years later, I got a (extremely unexpected) inheritance – a relative who was basically broke in life turned out to have had a life insurance policy from work that named me as a beneficiary.
Several years after my divorce, I met a wonderful man and we are now married. I came into the marriage with substantial retirement savings, my cash savings, plus a “down payment in a VHCOL area” size fund from my inheritance, and no debt. When we met, he was living paycheck to paycheck, no retirement savings, had credit card debt, and hadn’t started tackling his student loan debt. We had many conversations about personal finance (his parents are extremely irresponsible with money), and he learned a lot and has made great strides to getting his ish together. I also out-earn him because he only started his first professional job a year before we met (after messing around in his 20s and early 30s). He has higher longer term earning potential than I do, and I expect he will catch up to me salary-wise in the next 3-5 years.
So as a result, we have a strong pre-nup. We keep completely separate finances. We note all our “joint” spending in an app and at the end of the month settle up — we have an agreement on how to apportion different expenses given our salary differences and my kid. It has forced us to have much more explicit conversations about money, our priorities, and fairness, which I think is good. But we were both very broke not that long ago and have not entirely lost the habit of accounting for every expense, despite now having a very healthy household income. I think over time our day-to-day finances will merge more, but I still have a lot to deal with in therapy before I can get there. Not having a place to live or enough cash to rent a place, as a professional 30-something with a small child, was terrifying. Thank god for the friend who let me money and the friends who helped me move and assemble furniture and who bought me drinks and dinner.
I have several friends who married later or had a child prior to their current marriage who also keep separate finances. They each have different arrangements of how to handle joint expenses but many are scared to go through what I went through. One interesting arrangement I’ve seen is that one partner handles the mortgage, bills, health insurance, and cars, and the other one pays for education (daycare, private school, kid activities), kid clothes, groceries, eating out.
Anon
We’re fully joint. Married reasonably young (age 26) when I was fresh out of law school and he was in grad school. He had a higher net worth (~$20k to my negative $30k) but I had higher earning potential. We’ve taken turns being the higher earner, and at this point he earns more than I do but not dramatically so. I like the idea of sharing all expenses and earnings, but I do think it requires agreement on some fundamental issues like how much you roughly expect to save each year and how you’ll handle things like elder support.
anon
Does anyone have good solo/couple ideas to break a later-night TV habit (e.g. 10 pm onwards)? We’ve gotten into a rut and are trying to figure out new options. We already have busy weeknights with significant and fulfilling hobbies, but I’m usually home, fed, and showered by 10 pm and we don’t head towards bed until 11 or 12. We’ve been filling the gap with TV and scrolling, and while that is fun some nights, I don’t like it as a default. What have other couples figured out for that time window? I often feel too tired (mentally, not physically) to read, or do a difficult crossword, or undertake chores, or etc. No kids, mid-30s.
Anon
I’ve found that if I’m too tired to read, I need to go to sleep. I’m not working on Greek translations or anything, but that time of night is for reading novels together in bed.
Anon
+1 Your body is telling you to sleep.
oldladylawyer
do you guys like to play cards? my 13 yo and i play gin or exploding kittens (which is a card game but you buy it, like not with a deck of cards) it takes only a few minutes for a round, you can play as many or as few at a time as you’re up to. It’s less set up and “work” than a board game….
Anon
I go to bed at 10, why fill this gap? Seems like time to sleep or F.
Cb
Yep, same… most people aren’t getting near enough sleep and if you’re too tired to do something interesting, then go to sleep.
Anon
Yeah, go to bed!
Anonymous
Before I had kids I didn’t get up until 8am when I worked from home. So going to bed at 11:30 was 8.5 hours of sleep for me. I get that not everyone is a night owl but it’s confusing to me that everyone is assuming you can’t get enough sleep unless you go to bed at 10pm.
To the OP, I do crafts (cross stitch or quilting) while I listen to a podcast, I take a bubble bath and read, or bake. My husband and I use that last hour for solo chill time so he usually plays video games or guitar.
Anon
Agreed but she said in her post she’s mentally too tired to do other activities which is why I think people are suggesting sleep
Anon
Agreed, if you’re too tired to do anything but scroll or watch TV, you should just go to sleep. What time do you get up? Midnight is such a late bedtime.
Clara
Jigsaw puzzles are what I do for this. It can be more rote than a difficult crossword. Also, audiobooks
Anonymous
Go T F to bed what is happening here? At 10, get yourselves up, wash your faces, brush your teeth and go to bed. If you want an activity, do an activity in bed that doesn’t involve screens and does involve connecting with each other.
NYCer
Talking, have sex and/or go to sleep earlier.
OP anon
OP – I don’t find that I can fall asleep at 10 or so. I don’t have to wake up until 8 AM or so, so even going to bed at midnight gets me 8 hours of sleep. For me at least, there is a big difference between being physically tired and mentally tired.
Anonymous
Agreed! Don’t go to bed if you’re not sleepy.
I like jigsaws with an easy audiobook.
Anon
Apparently our cortisol peaks at 10 pm and 3 am so if we’re up past those times we get our second wind and can’t fall asleep for another couple of hours. So I have to be IN bed by 9:45.
I mention this because I was a huge night owl but had the same problem you are. I started dating my now husband who woke up early and, I hate to say it, but waking up early is so much better. I’m mentally fresh so I can do what’s important to me (for me that’s meditating, reading and then working out).
Anon
Have you ever considered that all that late night screen time has really warped your body’s natural clock?
Anon
I like to read, but if you’re too tired to read then maybe go to bed or find a less boring book.
Anon
Board games? Novels? Luxurious bath? Massage?
I disagree with everyone who says to go to sleep. If I go to sleep at 10 pm, my body interprets it as a long nap, and I will be wide awake at 2 am or 3 am.
Anon
I work the NYT crossword app. I know you said not mentally taxing but if you’re too tired to do an easy crossword (the mini, or the Monday – Wednesday daily puzzles) then I agree with others – you need to go to sleep.
A book is a 100% sure fire way to get me to sleep.
Anon
Um, go to bed??
Anonie
Being tired mentally but not physically to me seems like a good opportunity to do some light exercise – if it were daylight, I’d suggest going for a walk, but if you’re comfortable walking at night, maybe try that, or a yoga video in your home. But this is why going to bed at say 10 and getting up at 6 a.m. and making better use of that morning time, rather than watching 2 hours of TV because you don’t have to get up til 8 may be worth considering.
Kate R
Paging Vicky A and anyone else who feels worked/overwhelmed to the bone lately. I don’t know how we are going to get through this season of life. But. I believe it is a season and all seasons end. Whether the situations change or we change our situations. Something will change and this feeling, this reality, will subside.
Cb
Thanks for that! I switched jobs in September and I assumed it would be better (traded a plane commute for bus/train, home for bedtime) and I’m absolutely exhausted and struggling to keep my head above water. A relatively junior academic job feels much for muchness no matter what institution so I can’t figure out why and am worried my lupus is slowing me down.
Anon
don’t underestimate the lupus. I have RA and it’s impact ranges from “slows me down” when I’m feeling good to “I’m totally useless” in a flare. I’m trying to give myself grace but it’s hard…
Anon
+1 on the RA flares. I’ve lost weeks of work to them. I can functionally sit at my desk, at least for short periods of time, but the brain isn’t there.
Anon
This. The cognitive effects of autoimmune flare ups are something else.
Anokha
I really need to believe this. It feels like this season is endless and just typing this comment is making me tear up.
Anonymous
Same. I am not a frequent crier, especially about work- maybe 5 times in my first 10 years of practice? – but I’ve found myself so overwhelmed my eyes well up lately. We are not alone and others have gotten through similar(but always different and unique) challenging seasons. Deep breaths and hoping for 2024 to be the year of change!
Anokha
Thank you. It’s hard when this season of life feels endless — and something needs to give, but right now, it just feels like my sanity!!
Anokha
blech and inadvertent double post.
Vicky Austin
Hey!! Thanks so much for the kind words – as I sit here with another pile of work in front of me and no motivation, sigh. But it sure helps to know I’m not the only one in the trenches. :)
Dealing with a colleague that lies
On Friday, I attended a big meeting. I was asked to do X and Y by Organizer. I explained that I would happily do X, but Y was not my function or expertise. I added that Other Group performed Y regularly and should be asked to complete Y.
Organizer emailed the group with action items, which stated that I would do X AND Y by today. I replied with clarification per the meeting that I would deliver X but not Y.
Organizer responded that project was high priority and they needed X and Y from me today.
What do I do? How do you collaborate with a colleague that doesn’t listen, and even distorts facts (what I committed to deliver)? I technically outrank this person and I am tired of being treated in this manner.
go for it
Restate to organizer that you will do X as discussed in the meeting as well as via email on ….date.
Or…ignore it, submit X as agreed to, and let the chips fall upon the colleague. You have proof.
.
Sarah
I would probably do both of these. Email them so its crystal clear and they have a final reminder, but after that its not up to you if they can’t read.
Anon
What does technically outrank mean? If you’re senior on the org chart, put your foot down and say no. If you just have more seniority or something, talk to your boss.
Anon
Exactly this.
Flats Only
Depending entirely on your seniority, the actual work, and the necessity of maintaining relationships, don’t do the work, let the chips fall, and when the colleague tries to blame you throw her under her own bus, cc’ing everyone, even attaching a copy of the emails where you said you would not do the work. Sometimes you have to burn a bridge to stop invaders (and work bullies) from crossing it.
Cat
I would reply to Organizer, referring to your note from Friday, and then call the Organizer to say look, this is really not my job, you need to reach out to Y.
joan wilder
To me, I think it depends what Y is and what industry you are in. If Y is an area of law that you have no expertise in and would be malpractice, of course. But if Y is not in your job description but you could technically do it, even if its not in your main line of work, then I would do it this single time. The problem with these other strategies, is that if something goes off the rails, everyone looks bad who had a hand, not just the organizer. It is just one of those no win situations
Nesprin
This sounds like an opportunity for a lot of “per my previous emails” and cc’ing higherups.
Anon
Or just CALL the person and say “I told you I would not do Y. See you at the meeting!”
Anon
Help me shop? I have been eyeing the Ryka Hensley 2 in black, but they have very few reviews and it sounds like they are not that comfortable. Does anyone have recs for something along those lines that is actually comfortable? I’m open to other styles, but want a black shoe or short boot I can wear to my office that (best I can describe) leans business-athleisure. I want something that is not-plastic with a flat or very low heel that I can wear with socks this winter and I prefer to keep it under $120. My black summer loafers don’t play nicely with socks so I need to fill a void in my wardrobe now that the weather has turned. TIA!
Acorns
What about Sorels? I had a version of these that lasted a solid three years of daily wear: https://www.sorel.com/p/womens-evie-ii-chelsea-bootie-2048631.html?dwvar_2048631_color=243
Anon
I just returned a pair of Ryka sneakers that had basically no padding. I have some Kuru booties that look similar and may fit the bill!
Anonymous
Look at the Ecco Soft Low boot – more than $120 at full retail but you can often find older colors/versions on sale. E.g. the Ecco Soft 7 Chelsea boot is on sale at Zappos.
Elle
Does anyone have suggestions for a dress for my fall baby shower? I’m really struggling to find something that feels both fall and baby.
Anon
Why dress like a baby? I’d look for something you’d otherwise wear during your pregnancy.
Elle
I don’t know why but I feel like it should feel floral and girly?? Which is hard to find this time of year
Anon
For me, I didn’t want to be a girly mom. If you’re there, check out Sue Sartor, she has fall prints and cuts that skew feminine. The styles are forgiving and you can probably wear it after you deliver too.
Anon
Something like this https://tnuck.com//products/exclusive-red-flounce-dress
Anon
I felt the same way for summer, baby shower. I didn’t want the work return the clothes I normally wore, or the leisure wear I wore at home – more like something I would wear to a bridal shower type event, if I wasn’t pregnant.
Trixie
no no no. Just be yourself. Wear colors you like, and no need to be girly. Pregnancies used to involve ruffles and bows but that was a long time ago.
Anon
I was going to say that Motherhood usually has this kind of thing, but it seems like they don’t have much on their website anymore! This seems like a good option if it’s the right size: https://www.motherhood.com/products/crinkle-chiffon-ruffle-sleeve-tier-maternity-dress
OOO
This is not technically a maternity dress but it might work. I love this pattern for fall with cognac boots: https://www.loft.com/clothing/dresses/catl000013/752829.html?priceSort=DES
Acorns
How about this?
Acorns
Whoops, the link didn’t come thru: https://balticborn.com/collections/style-bump/products/uma-velvet-maxi-dress-copper-floral?variant=41363935887525&nosto_source=cmp&nosto=674482432
Anon
If you don’t want to spend a bunch of money, I see fall floaty maternity options from Old Navy and Target. Examples:
https://oldnavy.gap.com/browse/product.do?pid=754059002&cid=48687&pcid=48687&vid=1&nav=meganav%3AMaternity%3AShop%20Maternity%20Categories%3ADresses%20%26%20Jumpsuits%20&cpos=29&cexp=2926&kcid=CategoryIDs%3D48687&cvar=26331&ctype=Listing&cpid=res23101608787596216326391#pdp-page-content
https://www.target.com/p/ingrid-isabel-maternity-the-breeze-midi-dress/-/A-89057576?preselect=89057578#lnk=sametab
Seraphine usually has good options for events, have you looked there?
Anon
Seraphine!
https://www.seraphine.com/en-us/navy-blue-floral-lace-maternity-to-nursing-occasion-dress/
Anon
Do you know what you’re having? One common choice is to wear either pink or blue. I would wear a bright pink or even a maroon, or a beautiful navy. A white sweater dress is also festive. For a recent baby shower I attended, the mom to be wore a blue velvet dress. Similar to the Pinkblush Teal V-neck Velvet Maternity Dress. It comes in a really pretty pink/purple too.
Anon
Eh, I already got so little wear out of my maternity clothing I just wore something on the nicer end of things I already had. I wouldn’t buy a dress I’d only wear once unless it was a wedding dress.
Anon88
Random food safety question– accidentally left my chana masala leftovers (from a restaurant) on the kitchen counter last night instead of putting them in the fridge. My house was 62 degrees last night. Would you eat or throw away?
Anon
Throw away.
Anonymous
Throw away.
Anon
I am Indian and cook this stuff all the time. it’s fine. I would totally eat it
Anon
Absolutely toss. Not worth the pain of finding out if it’s good still.
Anan
I would still eat it, buy I’ve learned that I am less cautious on “food left out” things than most people I know. My Husband says I have an iron stomach.
Anon
I would too, but I’ve never gotten food poisoning in the US. (Have had travelers diarrhea when traveling in Africa and Asia but no food illnesses.). I think k this depends on how strong your stomach is
Anon
Throw away. Why take the risk?
Anon
I’m a microbiologist and I’d say that the odds of getting sick are extremely low (well cooked food, slightly acidic, not too warm in your kitchen), and if it was a home cooked meal, I might go ahead and eat it anyway, but coming from a restaurant kitchen the odds are higher that it could have been contaminated with something, and even if the odds are low, better not to risk dying! If there’s rice, I’d definitely not eat it, though.
Anonie
Can you say more about the risk of dying!? I thought it was more just an upset tummy that we had to worry about with old food.
Also why is rice a key factor? So interesting!
Anon
Thousands of people die every year from food poisoning. Some of those are from eating undercooked meat or veggies that were contaminated in the field, and other times the contamination occurs later. In most cases, the key factor is allowing the food to stay warm for too long, allowing the dangerous bacteria to grow. Those bacteria can be killed by reheating the food, but if they produce a toxin during the time the food is warm enough for them to grow, that toxin will generally still be there and can still make you sick. So old food that has been rigorously kept cold is fine, but warm food is bad. And there’s a particular type of toxin forming bacteria common in rice and pasta, which is why I’d worry more if there’s rice.
https://www.sciencealert.com/5-day-old-pasta-or-rice-can-be-deadly-here-s-how
Anon
But the vast majority of those people are elderly, young children and/or have compromised immune systems. It’s basically unheard of for healthy adults to die from food poisoning.
Anon88
Thanks all! It was really good so I was hoping it’d magically be fine, but I’ve had food poisoning before and not willing to risk it if there’s a chance it could be contaminated. In the garbage it goes.
Anon
I think this was the right decision! One thing that changed my thinking about this was learning that not food safety is not all about symptomatic episodes of food poisoning, but also about carcinogens.
Anon
I’d do the same thing. For me, it’s not worth the worry. If I’m in doubt, I generally don’t eat something.
Anon
I would eat it but I have an iron stomach and am kind of lax about food safety.
Anon
I’d heat it through and eat it.
Anon
I’d eat it. Not if it had meat or dairy, but beans in sauce? Absolutely.
NYCer
+1 to the no meat distinction.
Anon
Whenever I am faced with a decision like this, I try to overcome my natural thriftiness/aversion to wasting food by reminding myself of the time I got horrific food poisoning from a local restaurant (from hot food, not leftovers). And how, after 12 solid hours of vomiting and diarrhea (I was dry-heaving and vomiting even small sips of water), I lay on the bathroom floor, naked from the waist down, praying for death. I never want to have that experience again. So the leftovers go into the trash.
Anonie
+1 the frugality and waste piece makes it so hard for me to throw out questionable leftovers! Not just the money spent on the food, but the time spent making it (if I did) or procuring it (if I didn’t).
Anon
I would definitely eat it unless it smelled bad or there was visible mold, which I doubt has happened in one night.
Anon
My mom had this exact outfit in 1979.
Anon
And everything old is new again so it’s back in fashion!
Anon
Levi’s Bendovers for the win!
Anonymous
every time someone says this it isn’t the gotcha you think it is
Anon
It wasn’t a gotcha. My mom was fly as hell.
anon
What would you wear to this bridal shower? The couple is having a destination wedding, and the shower theme is tropical. Would you just … wear seasonally appropriate clothes instead of trying to match the theme? It is getting chilly, and even if it wasn’t, I don’t own resort wear that I could just throw a jacket over. This isn’t a fashion-forward crowd but I’m still feeling stuck on what to wear. Any ideas? I own exactly one fall dress that isn’t business casual.
Anon
Ugh, themes. Maybe just wear a floral dress.
Anonymous
I haven’t been to a shower that required the guests to dress according to theme, but I’m assuming there was something in the invitation that asked you to wear a certain kind of clothing? I might do something simple like wearing a lei. But I’m with you in having a hard time imagining what i could wear this time of year and not be chilly.
Anon
I wouldn’t expect a shower theme to extend to the clothing guests wore, unless it was expressly stated on the invitation, so I would just wear appropriately seasonal and casual clothing.
Anon
Wear a plain dress. They’ll probably have leis and maybe a flower clip you put behind your ear. I wouldn’t make any more effort than that.
Anon
I think it’s kind of rude to have a wedding that intentionally excludes people (destination), and yet invite those excluded people to a shower where they’re expected to bring a gift, AND dictate their wardrobe on top of everything. Given that train of thought, I would not feel compelled to buy a new dress unless I just wanted an excuse to shop.
Anon
Yeah, the bride better not be inviting people to the shower who can’t come to the wedding.
anon
I have thoughts on this destination wedding. It’s DH’s cousin, we were invited but are not going because it’s during Thanksgiving and the cost for our family of 4 was, well, not how we wanted to spend our money. 125 people have been invited to the shower. She also had another shower in her hometown. You can’t tell me that all of those people were invited to the wedding.
I find it all tacky and perplexing, but not my wedding.
Anon
Oh my! Yeah, I’d definitely not buy a new outfit. This is a lot.
anon
Yeah. Feels like they’re trying to have it both ways (all the gifts, while choosing a destination that’s prohibitively expensive for most invitees). Oh well.
Anon
The theme is tropical as in the invitation asked you to wear tropical clothing, or the design of the invitation just had tropical things on it?
anon
The organizer told family members that it’s tropical themed …
But screw it, it’s October, and we live in the Midwest. I will dress accordingly.
Anonymous
I’d wear my favorite maxi dress or skirt and a light colored cotton sweater on top, perhaps with a belt to define the waist. Bonus points if it slouches off the shoulder and you can have a colorful bralette or tank top peeking out. Or just wear whatever you’d wear during the summer with a denim jacket, tights, and boots. Take a look at how nap dresses are styled for winter for inspiration.
Anon
I would not buy new clothes for this occasion. Wear what you have.
Anonie
I have a couple NYDJ floral shirts that I’d probably wear with black or navy slacks on this occasion – still “fall” weather but with a nod to tropical florals, e.g.:
https://www.nordstrom.com/s/paulina-peasant-top-plus-size/7272735?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FWomen%2FClothing%2FTops&color=618
Anon
Can one wear these shoes to an interview with a black suit & white blouse? Or should it be black shoes only? Interview is in federal government. Not a lawyer.
https://factory.jcrew.com/p/womens/categories/shoes/flats/pointy-toe-flats/BT272
Anon
I love those shoes; they are not interview shoes.
anon
Yes, absolutely, go for it!
Anon
Absolutely fine.
Cat
100% fine to me but fed gov’t can be more conservative.
PolyD
This fed says yes, but I am at a science agency and we are Not Fashion.
Senior Attorney
I feel like any job that would ding me for wearing those shoes to an interview is not a job I’d want. But YMMV.
Anon
I’m a lawyer who used to be in government, and I’d wear these to an interview with an otherwise understated suit/blouse. They’re cute.
Anonymous
I think those are totally fine for an interview with the federal gov.
JHC
I own these shoes and wear them with everything, including black and white.
Anon
Looking for an Inter CF Miami Home jersey for my nephew who wears Men’s Medium. Can be authentic or replica. It’s on sale at several retailers (Adidas, MLS Store, Fanatics, Dick’s) but they are sold out of his size. Any other authorized retailers that sell these jerseys? Lots of websites that sell cheap/bad replicas so it’s a bit confusing.
Anon
My $.02 is either size up or give him an I.O.U. Jersey’s are expensive and kids, at least my teenager, wouldn’t be caught dead in an unauthorized version/replica. Somehow they know, but I can’t tell the difference.
ANON
Stick to those 4. Adidas is the official manufacturer, MLS is obviously reputable, Fanatics has deals with Nike and MLS, and Dick’s is an authorized retailer. You could *try* to get in touch with the club’s on-site store and see if they could send something out. Likely they are out as well, though.
Are you looking for a particular player or one that can be customized?
OP
Probably too late for anyone to see this, but I am looking for a Messi jersey, which of course is even harder to find. Thanks for the info, I will keep checking those retailers between now and Xmas
anon
I’m trying to be better about easy wins for the environment, so in that vain, any recommendations for where I can donate unused and clean plastic utensils? I often end up with them from take out even though I check the option for “no utensils” when ordering. I know you can’t give localized recommendations, but if folks can help me brainstorm places to give them, I can follow up locally.
Ex: I originally thought it would be a useful thing to give to homeless shelters but the ones I contacted said no.
Anon
Are they individually sealed? A local library, community center, church, daycare, school, etc. might take them.
For a random collection of unwrapped plastic utensils, giving them away becomes more difficult and just weird.
anon
+1 on the individually sealed/not distinction. Even then, I think it’s unlikely that a nonprofit will have the staff to handle this kind of donation. At least in my area, I would discourage OP from reaching out to daycares–they’re struggling with a shortage of highly qualified workers and the last thing a director needs is to spend time fielding a request to donate something that saves them like $2 at Costco, if they do use disposable utensils. Other kinds of organizations may have similar staffing shortages.
I don’t like using social media, but my local Buy Nothing group on Facebook has been good ways for me to rehome things I don’t need anymore. And to get things second hand so I don’t buy as much.
I think, ultimately, you have to consider that ordering takeout isn’t going to be great for the environment and factor that into how ordering fits into your overall impact. For me, I try not to sweat the small stuff like disposable utensils and straws and focus on things like supporting candidates who will take strong action against climate change, limiting plane travel, upgrading my home to more environmentally friendly options when it comes time to do something like get a new water heater, eating less meat, etc.
Anonymous
Put them in the office kitchen for people to use.
Anon
I keep one or two in my suitcase for carryout or door dash meals in a hotel room, but put most of these that I get (also after saying I don’t want them) in the Little Free Pantries in my neighborhood. The pantries usually have both ingredients for meals and single-serving items like cups of mac and cheese, and I know some homeless folks use the pantries and could use the utensils.
I also had a ton of chopsticks from carryout; I offered them up on my local Facebook freebies page and someone took them for the Chinese New Year celebration at the local library.
Anon
I bring mine to the office and have them available for when I or someone else forgot to bring them for their lunch. Of course, that requires still having an office.
Anon
Just don’t spend a lot of time and gas money trying to find the perfect solution!
Anon
Keep them together and use them for a BBQ, cookout, church potluck, kids birthday party.
anon
Thank you all