Weekend Open Thread
Something on your mind? Chat about it here.
Spanx pants have been a reader favorite for a long time, and these kick crop flare pants look great for the weekend, work, and beyond. The length here looks perfect — about 2 inches above the ankle bone — and I love the fact that it comes in regular and petite sizes up to 3X.
The pants are $148 at Nordstrom, Amazon, and Spanx (where select sizes are 50% off!).
(Hunting for similar in denim? These options look great and are available up to size 4X.)
An Admin Note: The past few days, there have been a lot of comments on the Israel-Hamas war. We understand that a lot of you care about this very deeply, but many of you are violating commenting policy by agreeing with your own comments and so on. For these kinds of sensitive conversations, please seriously consider using one handle, consistently, to keep conversations clear and easier for everyone to follow and participate in. If you are pretending to be multiple people for the purpose of agreeing with your own comments, you will be placed in the moderation queue permanently. Otherwise, anonymous commenters will continue to be approved on my timeline and at my discretion.
Sales of note for 12.5
- Nordstrom – Cyber Monday Deals Extended, up to 60% off thousands of new markdowns — great deals on Natori, Vince, Theory, Boss, Cole Haan, Tory Burch, Rothy's, and Weitzman, as well as gift ideas like Barefoot Dreams and Parachute — Dyson is new to sale, 16-23% off, and 3x points on beauty purchases.
- Ann Taylor – up to 50% off everything
- Banana Republic Factory – up to 50% off everything + extra 25% off
- Design Within Reach – 25% off sitewide (including reader-favorite office chairs Herman Miller Aeron and Sayl!) (sale extended)
- Eloquii – up to 60% off select styles
- J.Crew – 1200 styles from $20
- J.Crew Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off $100+
- Macy's – Extra 30% off the best brands and 15% off beauty
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off, plus free shipping on everything (and 20% off your first order)
- Steelcase – 25% off sitewide, including reader-favorite office chairs Leap and Gesture (sale extended)
- Talbots – 40% off your entire purchase and free shipping $125+
If you maintain separate marital finances, I’d appreciate your input on this. I’m feeling financially strained by new elder care responsibilities and DH is cranky that I’ve asked for his help with marital expenses because of my family.
Financial Context
I take home $9k per month and my annual bonus nets about $7k. DH takes home $12k per month and his annual bonus nets about $25k.
DH paid housing and utilities for the first three years of our marriage while I poured my salary into my $100k student loans. When we bought a weekend house during that time, DH paid for it and our main house (monthly total $5500). I clearly financially benefited from this, whether you define that as $100k student debt payoff or $168k in free housing. (I’m not a scorekeeper; this is relevant below.)
Today, we own two different houses. DH pays the mortgage on the main house ($2900) and the lawn care on both ($600); I pay the mortgage and utilities on the weekend house ($3800), as well as the utilities and housekeeper on the main house ($600).
The Problem
The issue is that I’m feeling pinched by new one-time and ongoing elder care costs. I asked DH about six weeks ago if he could help me with the weekend house payment given these costs and he got pretty upset about it, and I haven’t brought it up since. He specifically brought up the fact that he paid for the weekend house while I was paying off my student loans, so it’s “my turn” to pay for this one. If/when I bring it up again, I expect to hear that he recently (since our last talk) spent $20k on projects at the weekend house and I didn’t contribute, so why does he have to contribute to my “project” of my mom?
The costs come from recently moving my mom to live near us. I’m an only child, and my mom has been single since my dad died when I was 4 – it’s always just been the two of us and taking care of her clearly falls to me. (And she and I are close and I love her and want to take care of her.) She’s 80, and her monthly income is $2800 between a pension and Social Security. The housing payment for the most reasonable and appropriate home we could find in our area is $2200. She will pay me $1200 each month and I’ll cover the extra $1000. The full-service, long-distance move last month (because clearly an 80 year woman can’t pack up her whole house herself and I couldn’t drop everything to do it for her) was $12,000. Modifying the house for aging in place (a walk-in tub, extra stair railings, plus new appliances and general spiffing up) was $20,000. Closing costs were $20,000. The move and the house changes went on my CC; the closing costs came out of my savings.
(Please no commentary on buying a house for someone at her age. Everyone in her family lives to 100 in perfect health and dies in their sleep at home. She has at least 15 years of excellent health ahead of her (as much as any of us can predict such things). We selected the most appropriate and cost-efficient house for aging-in-place available on the local market. And of course the house will be mine to sell when she passes.)
I’d like DH to take over – or take half of – or just contribute toward – the weekend house payment while I take care of this $52k. But here we get into emotional stuff. DH is a black and white, right way/wrong way kinda guy and doesn’t deal well with gray areas and life’s messiness. To wit:
DH is kinda contemptuous of my mom. She’s flighty and kind of a space cadet and hasn’t always made the wisest life choices, but she is such a gentle person without a mean bone in her body. (She could totally be an extra on Murder She Wrote – red glasses, cozy sweaters and blankets, cup of hot tea, kitty curled up in her lap.) She didn’t always make the smartest financial decisions when she was raising me, but he (unfairly and harshly IMO) views her as irresponsible. She was a single mother and did her best.
Meanwhile, he’ll never, ever have to deal with elder care. Not because his parents were any more free of occasional poor decisions than my mom (they weren’t), not because their earnings were any more generous than my mom’s (they weren’t, aside from the two adults vs one aspect), but because his dad was wounded twice in Vietnam and he has very generous veteran’s benefits. There’s a significant financial stipend every month, plus they both have free healthcare with no deductibles. They also live in DH’s rural (and affordable) hometown with literally dozens of close-knit relatives ready to drop anything for a family member who needs help. When MIL inevitably outlives FIL, it will be the local cousins who visit and take her to doctors’ appointments, and even plan her funeral since they all go to the same church.
So because his only interaction with his parents is a monthly phone call, and they’re doing their own thing seven states away in his hometown and don’t need financial help, I feel like he thinks everything’s swell on HIS end, so why does MY end have to be so needy and affect us so much. Well, my end is HERE. And I want her to be here because I love her and because my end doesn’t have a spouse and a coterie of devoted relatives. But HERE means you see more and know more and, yeah, it costs more (the ongoing $1k).
So, anyways, a lot of emotions and numbers all jumbled up in this. Your thoughts are greatly appreciated. I don’t want to be a mooch, so if I’m out of line, tell me.
You’re not out of line at all and the bean counting sounds awful. Tell him you want to sell the weekend house and you need to pay for your mom. And you should probably go to therapy to work out if you want to stay in this marriage.
i’d agree that you should tell him you’ll sell the weekend house if he can’t help. whose names are the 3 houses in? (yours, weekend, your mom’s)?
you may also want to consider negotiating with him which things will be paid for from a joint bucket, so you have his, hers, and the family. this will be especially relevant if/when you have kids. even if he’s black & white he can surely agree that some things can go in the joint bucket, like the houses, utilities, agreed-upon yard and other services, agreed-upon kid/parent expenses (mortgage, tuition, 529 savings). i never understand how people consider themselves in a real partnership if you don’t have some shared expenses.
Do you want to stay in this marriage? I can’t imagine that level of bean counting. You didn’t incur these expenses by making irresponsible decisions. Your education made it possible to get such a high paying job and your mom didn’t benefit from a dual income household. Your husband is being petty and callous. He has some nerve to complain that he made the downpayment for a *vacation home* while you paid off student loans…and later took over the mortgage. I wouldn’t want to stay married to someone who sees me as a drain instead of a partner.
To be fair, $52K isn’t exactly a beancounting amount of money. I think both have valid points.
I don’t have any advice to offer as I’m currently unpartnered. But I’m also in the position where I’ll probably be helping my mother financially for the rest of my life (along with my brother). Although my mom has made a few bad financial choices (and maybe your mom too), haven’t we all at least one point in life? I feel for you as this sounds like a difficult situation to negotiate with your spouse. I wish you the best in figuring this out and I commend you for wanting to care for your mother.
Others may do it differently, but we’ve found that one-pot households (which is what we have) make elder care a lot easier. We are in a situation with a relative of mine and my husband has not raised an eyebrow at the expenses (he makes more and our finances are 100% combined, no separate accounts except for 401k. I brought more to the marriage with a modest inheritance). It’s our money, 100%, and it reduces a lot of the stress of elder care. It doesn’t necessarily sound like it, but is there a chance you and your husband could combine finances? You’re operating from the assumption that it’s all separate, but does it have to continue to be?
Yeah. Retirement seems to be where separate finances fall apart and I don’t think there are a lot of good models for this since people have generally had joint finances up until the last 20 or 30 years.
This. We started out with equal salaries, but so many things have changed over the years that we’ve been married that I’m really glad we decided to think of our finances as a single pot. We still have our own bank accounts and credit cards and don’t closely monitor each other’s spending, but we think of our money jointly and make the big decisions together. We’ve moved several times, each been unemployed, and each made job sacrifices for the other, and it works much, much better when we don’t feel like we’re being penalized for that. I imagine it will only be even more true when it comes to elder care.
+1. Life is so much simpler when you think of both partners’ money as OUR money. Marriage is a financial partnership as much as anything else – you are running a household together. Supporting your aging mother seems infinitely more important and should carry significantly more weight than owning and maintaining a second home! You are being very thoughtful and rational and I’m sorry your husband is having trouble seeing this. I also second the advice to consider couples therapy. And your mother is very lucky to have you.
I cannot imagine being married and not being one pot. I have friends who’ve kept things separate but I don’t get it. You’re married, you’re a team, that’s the point. In OPs case though, maybe it’s handy because they can easily divide up who gets what in a divorce….
That sounds tough… Wanted to mention, if you were to detail your financial situation in a Money Snapshot, you could get more eyes on it when it’s published and receive some good advice there, too. Totally understand if you’d rather not, especially with the sensitive nature, but if you’d consider it, the link is at the top of this page: https://corporette.com/category/personal-money-snapshot (Swear I’m not suggesting this to simply get more content! It could help other readers, too.)
I mean… this sounds terrible. You are absolutely NOT a mooch, and I am mad at your husband for making you feel that way.
Your mom is your family and you love her. He should understand this. Barring her being a bad person, which it sounds like she is not, he needs to suck it up. There’s no way to split every single thing evenly down the middle forever. I hope he has the security that you’d pitch in more if he suddenly became ill or disabled or unemployed for some reason. That’s what a partnership is.
I don’t know how the two of you square up on this issue. But you are being imminently reasonable here. I wish I’d had the resources to provide such a loving arrangement for my parents before they passed.
I have no doubt that if the shoe was on the other foot (ie it was his parents that needed financial support) he would expect not a peep of protest from you!
It all sounds terrible. Even before your mom and her needs, why are you paying more on your combined mortgages when you earn less than him? Is he punishing you for not contributing while you were focusing on your loans?
He sounds kind of awful in all of this, honestly, and it doesn’t feel like a true partnership from what you wrote.
You are not out of line.
You are a very reasonable person.
You are a wonderful daughter.
Your husband is clueless, doesn’t see the grey, and it makes me sad to think this is marriage in 2023.
Honestly, in your situation, I would be very hurt. And I would just do what needs to be done. I would stop all retirement contributions, stop all $ vacations (just visit family friends…save…), and just put all my money/savings toward this debt/expense. It is a one time thing, and I trust it was a reasonable decision for you/your family.
The only other thing I would consider in time is transitioning her to subsidized senior housing. Think about it. Your share of her expenses will only rise with time while she lives alone in a house. Anything could happen. Just have the local Depart of Aging senior social worker do an eval for all local resources for everything from subsidized rides/meals/activities and everything from home care help to housing options for seniors at her income level. So you know. And so you know how many years the wait lists are to get into the good (affordable) buildings.
And at some time I would have a sit down with your husband and let him know how hurt and sad you are by his support during this incredibly stressful period of your life. Yet express your huge gratitude for his support during your student loan years.
And then tell him you’d like to sell the 2nd house because the financial stress is too much for you.
And if that fails……
I wish you well.
This is not at all a criticism of the above post, but as a nearly 40 year old person: I would counsel you to NOT stop your retirement contributions, particularly in this situation where your husband is keeping track of every penny. If your marriage continues to retirement, his attitude about funding household expenses is unlikely to change, and I ‘d encourage you to continue looking out for your own stability in your elder years.
I don’t think you should displace your mother, either. Instead, I’d push hard to sell the vacation home, as the current arrangement is not financially viable for you.
I’d also be considering whether I wanted a marriage like this going forward.
Sorry, but your DH sounds terrible. It doesn’t sound like a marriage but a business partnership. If he doesn’t respect you or your mom, you are better off without him. Please think long and hard about whether you want to go into debt to stay married to this jerk.
Beancounting/score keeping or not, it sounds like as a couple you’re living at the very edge of your means. Time for some belt tightening. Y’all make good money, but also have pretty huge self inflicted expenses. It sounds like your husband views your mom’s expenses as discretionary and you don’t. Time for hard conversations about priorities if the budget won’t stretch to 3 houses and it sounds like it won’t.
We keep separate finances (because we were a second marriage later in life, we both had a house and liquid assets, kids on one side only, we knew we would not have kids). Here are my thoughts:
* We maintain completely separate finances. I am not on the deed to his house and he is not on mine. We live in one, and the owner of the other rents it out. Which means we also have separate insurance policies for the houses because you can’t insure something if you don’t have an ownership interest in it. (This works for us.) BUT we have full transparency into each other’s assets, we invest as if it is all one pot (so we take into account diversification etc together) and we consult each other before making major money moves (when to replace the roof, whether to move all our mutual funds out of X industry etc – not “can I buy a $500 pair of whatever”).
* We have separate wills and trusts. The partner with no kids leaves everything to that partner’s siblings. The partner with kids leaves everything to that partner’s kids. We each have enough to support ourselves with our individual assets and long term care insurance.
* You have shared a lot of facts about cash flow, past and present. What kind of documents do you have in your marriage? Do you have a prenup? What do your wills and trusts say? What is the long term plan for your assets?
* I ask because at the end of the day, either when someone dies or gets divorced or when an asset/house is sold, you want to know who will get what. That could also inform who pays what now.
* If you are with someone who is counting dollars between you the way you describe DH doing with you, I am concerned that the asset part of this equation will become more relevant to you than the cash flow part if/when you divorce.
Co-sign.
You have a husband who isn’t willing to be generous with his own wife?? When both of you make a truly huge amount of money?? WHAT EVEN.
What is the usual pattern in your marriage: Does he ever change his mind about something when the two of you fundamentally disagree? Are you able to work out this stuff and come to a compromise? Or does he just dig in unless you can meet him on his terms—and you usually can’t, so you often are just the one giving in?
I’d suggest a marriage mediator.
I am so sorry you are going through this. The bean counting is not normal. You are a team now. My husband and I have certain things we each pay for from an admin/logistical standpoint but it is OUR money (and I significantly outward him).
correct me if my math is wrong, but he is currently paying 25% of his yearly takehome towards housing costs, and you were paying 46% of your takehome total on housing costs. putting aside all of the one-time expenses, with the additional $1000 a month you’re contributing to your mom, you’re now spending 56% of your take home on housing costs.
If you were to switch so that each of you contributes the same percentage of your salary to a joint fund for all of these expenses, you could each put in 37.65% of your take home salary and cover the entire amount. that seems equal. if he’s saying you owe more because he paid for housing costs or let you pay for student loans, good luck to him getting that money back in divorce.
115,000 your take home
169,000 his take home
106,800 in total housing costs (including your mom’s $1000) = ((3800+600+1000
)*12) + ((2900+600)*12)
I see where your husband is coming from in that I would not want my stepson (no college debt) to partner up with someone six figures in debt and then pay that off / take on more debt. But it’s not like your mother is a surprise. Or your situation vis-a-vis her. It’s a package. Most people nickel-and-diming each other with don’t line-item up like this and THEN have a weekend house on top of it. So IDK why he thought the MIL situation wouldn’t run up against household bills.
Joint counseling. Financial counseling. Keeping things separate is IMO for blended families (like mine, but we function as one pot) or where there is a family business or something complicated like that.
FWIW, my parents are like your husband, where both sets of grandparents were in the same small town and they funded a lot of financial needs (house cleaners, lawn care, home repairs, new clothes, car repairs) for decades b/c they weren’t there physically to help. VA won’t pay for a lot that the elderly need. But they helped. He should see that perhaps there will be a need and that you would gracefully let household funds help with that.
Not commenting on the financial
and marriage aspects since we combine finances entirely, but commenting on the local cousin aspect.
Basically since my family immigrated to America 2-4 generations ago, everybody on both sides of my family has lived in Philly. All told I have my parents and 6 sets of aunts / uncles here. My sister and I are the only cousins (out of 10) who stuck around. I am more than happy to do the caregiving (both day to day and the heavy lifting) for my parents and my childless aunt and uncle (who are like second parents to me).
I do get resentful when my out of town cousins just expect I can do xyz for their parents because I’m local and they’re not. Yes I love these relatives but I have my own family, caregiving obligations, job, house, and life I have to handle too. I can’t be everyone’s doctor chauffeur and whatever else. I love to help out when I can, but I cannot take up caregiving for 14 people because these people’s children are shirking their responsibilities.
So all that to say I hope your husband realizes that by not being around to help his parents out, he’s putting a lot on his cousins, probably unfairly. You’re stepping up and doing the right thing for your mom, and he’s pushing his fair share onto others.
here here
+1
Also, it sounds like his parents don’t need a lot of care yet. Once they do, who knows if the relatives really will step up. Those cousins could be going through difficult life circumstances when the time comes. Their own parents could be having a rough time, and would they really step up for the extended family when they’re accountable to their own parents?
So I say this as someone who has combined finances with my spouse so no immediate knowledge, but I could kind of see why he might feel annoyed with this. I don’t know the specifics, but if part of the reason you didn’t combine was because you had different saving/spending profiles, he has definitely been called on in a couple big ways to step up more than he likely thought he was going to. Now whether or not that is fair, I’m not passing judgment on because as someone else pointed out you make less but it appears you mostly split things 50-50, but presumably those were the norms you both thought you were agreeing to. I’m not saying the pettiness is ok, just that there’s a world in which I understand where he’s coming from, especially if he feels like he wasn’t around when you incurred the loans (perhaps?) or doesn’t have a say in the financial implications of the decisions you’re making for your mom now but is making financial accommodations for those decisions. It also sounds like you guys can’t afford your lifestyle, even separate from the elder care expenses. In your shoes, I would probably revisiting combining finances (also worth mentioning that with all the trading expense categories, functionally your separate pools of money would likely not be considered separate in a court anymore since they’ve both gone to maintaining shared family homes). I’d also look into selling the weekend house most likely.
I have a different question here. What did your husband getting pretty upset look like? And what do you mean by cranky?
You are not a mooch. Your needs have shifted over time; it happens to everyone. You haven’t said it anywhere, but your mother is more of a priority than having a weekend house, right? Then what needs to happen next is you say that to your husband, perhaps in a neutral setting with a third party present to mediate as others have suggested. He can take over the costs of the weekend home or you can sell the weekend home or you can rent out the weekend home. There are options here. But him letting you drown is not one of those options.
Wow. I couldn’t be married to someone this inflexible and not empathetic, nor could I be married to someone who views my mom with such contempt.
+1
OP here. Just talked to him. Went worse than I could have dreamed. He:
– Threw back in my face that he had paid for both houses while I was paying off my SLs and that it’s my turn to contribute to the household;
– Said that I had told him I could cover this weekend house when we bought it (which I could because that was before we moved my mom) and that now I’m going back on my word;
– Said that I didn’t have to buy her a house, that she could have lived in an apartment, so the choices I made to upgrade it were luxuries and that it wasn’t his responsibility to shoulder those;
– Said that he’s investing his money and that he can’t spare any because somebody has to be responsible and think about the future.
The conversation devolved into shouting and now I’m sitting here crying and debating whether or not to leave the house.
I’m so sorry. This sounds awful for you.
I think you do need to physically go outside, take a break tonight, maybe spend the evening/night somewhere else and give both of you time to think.
You both need counseling. I do see your husband moving forward with his current resentments without it.
sorry…. I do NOT see your husband moving forward from this and empathizing with your point of view without counseling.
I wish you well.
With this context, I tend to agree with him more. I still think one pot households just work better in most circumstances (not when second marriages, with kids, inheritances etc). But I also wondered why you’d buy your mom a house and spend so much on it rather than renting in a senior living community or just a reasonably priced apartment building. Who will be paying the house maintenance? I would consider couples counseling. And selling the second home. Clearly your financial situation has changed since you made the joint decision to buy it.
Yeah, I kind of agree with this. He sounds like a jerk, but you two also really need to have a real conversation about money. This is why I think it just doesn’t work to keep things separate, absent a situation like a second marriage. It sounds like you’re over spending and it’s not clear how much you’re saving for retirement, so you need to have a discussion about that and the second home and what you can actually afford. But he also needs to be more understanding about helping your mom, though that doesn’t necessarily mean spending wildly.
Concretely, it seems like you two are using separate pots as a stand in for not needing to be on the same financial and emotional page. The main argument for a common pot is that it practically forces a couple to be on the same financial page, but there’s no reason you can’t get the same results executing everything from two separate accounts.
In any case, it appears to me that it’s possible for all of the following to be true:
From your point of view:
(1) You used to be able to carry the weekend house but now you can’t because you bought your mom a house and neither of you anticipated elder care for your mom.
(2) You prioritize a house for your mom above the weekend house.
(3) You feel your spouse should support this prioritization both emotionally and financially.
From his point of view:
(4) He planned on not paying for the weekend house after a point because you said you would pay for it and neither of you anticipated elder care for your mom.
(5) He prioritizes the weekend house above paying for a house for your mom.
(6) He’s scared about you (as a couple) not having enough money.
But the solution is not to figure out which of these items are most true or anything like that. (3) and (6) are what you’re really fighting about. The bottom line is you two jointly have finite resources and need to figure out jointly how to allocate them. You could keep all three houses and he could pay a bit more. You could sell the weekend house. You could sell your mom’s house and find an apartment for her. You could put your mom in the weekend house. You could sell both your mom’s house and the weekend house and put an in-law suite into the main house. You could agree on a monthly common nut (two houses, utilities, food, phones, cars, savings, etc.) and contribute proportionately from your incomes to a common checking account and separate retirement accounts; anything left over is for no questions asked spending or saving, e.g., house for your mom.
But also, +1 on the counselor thing everyone is suggesting. Because another solution to all of the above is: you two don’t get on the same page, you split, you walk away with your share (whatever it is, possibly forcing a sale of one of the houses) and live in the house with your mom. It does sound like he’s being a jerk but also that it’s coming from a place of being scared about your (the couple’s) total financial picture.
I agree with everything nuqotw said.
+1 to nuqotw.
+100 to what nuqotw said! In terms of actionable next steps after you two address and with through the issues, her point is spot on (capitalization/ emphasis is mine):
“You could agree on a monthly common nut (two houses, utilities, food, phones, cars, savings, etc.) and contribute PROPORTIONATELY from your incomes to a common checking account and separate retirement accounts; anything left over is for no questions asked spending or saving, e.g., house for your mom. “
OP here.
What do you mean by senior living community? The only 55+ condo communities in our area run $3k+ per month. Assisted livings are $6k+ per month and she’s in perfect health.
I could have gotten her an apartment. I didn’t think of it because I wouldn’t think of living in an apartment myself for 10-15-20 years. Looks like they run $1800-$2000 per month and I wouldn’t have needed to spend any money fixing it up, but I still would have needed to help her financially. The only cheaper option for a home would have been a literal trailer (there’s a 55+ trailer park that’s actually kind of cute/well-maintained if you don’t think about the houses being tin cans). DH concedes that the house was a good purchase.
The house has a new roof, new septic, and new HVAC. She pays her bills and lawn care. After the $1200 house payment, she has $1600 in her monthly budget that goes to her car payment and insurance and bills and groceries.
I think your husband is being kind of a jerk but also this was a huge decision to make without his full buy-in, and I’m not sure why you didn’t consider lower-cost alternatives to literally buying a 3rd house that had major upfront expense needs without both of you being fully on board as to how it impacts your money.
Senior housing, subsidized. Or an accessible elevator apartment building with access to a onsite maintenance/landlord situation for day to day issues.
Apartment living with aging, especially aging alone, without financial resources is the way to go.
Yes, many seniors live in apartments alone for many years. I’ve lived in apartments most of my adult life, and will likely never own a house. After caregiving for both of my parents until their deaths in their own home, I know all to well the hazards of trying to age in place and the demands on usually…. the one daughter who lives close enough to manage it all.
You did your best with you knowledge at the time.
But you also should know you can’t predict what will happen with your Mom, and you have a lot of practical compromising you will need to do if you want to save your marriage…. and your sanity. Caregiving with no help is no joke.
I don’t think you are being unreasonable, as the house is an investment for you guys as well as somewhere for her to live. It’s great that you were able to find a solution that works and is affordable – if she ends up needing more intensive assistance or a nursing home, your situation will change again.
I feel for you, because your needs changed and DH doesn’t want to renegotiate your arrangement. It’s tricky in split finances because how can you plan for that? What happens if suddenly he’s injured and can’t work – do you have to sell your primary home because he can’t pay for it? You both need to have a meeting of the minds, with a couples counselor who is experienced in financial differences, on whether this is fixable.
I have to tell you that if my spouse reacted this way, I’d be thinking long and hard about being in the marriage. I’d hope that after years of marriage he’d see why it’s important to me to help my family out. And who knows – as other commenters have said, he may be surprised by his assumptions when his parents begin to age.
I’m sorry, what is wrong with living in an apartment for 10-20 years? Does she enjoy yardwork?
FWIW, I think buying her a house was a smart move. Rent is just money down the drain. If she deteriorates health wise and needs to move into assisted living, you can sell the house and have an instant pot of money to pay for that. Senior living communities are typically are harder to sell assets.
Why on earth does an 80 year old have a car payment?
Your husband is being extra here, but y’all are living with champagne taste on a, well (you’re still loaded), Costco sparking wine budget. Trim the fat out of your budget and put it toward marriage counseling. Money is a problem, but it’s not the only problem.
I think you’re missing the point. You decided the house was the best choice, but you can’t afford it! And neither can she! I’d divorce your husband he sounds mean but you had no business buying this house.
I think your husband sounds like a jerk, but I don’t really get the disdain for apartment living. My very affluent parents chose to live in an apartment when they moved near us because they 1) wanted to be maintenance free (the big reason) and 2) wanted flexibility to move on short notice if necessary for health reasons. Many apartment communities have townhomes or even standalone houses, that are more like single family homes than apartments. My parents have a townhouse. It doesn’t have to be in a 55+ community, my parents (mid-70s) just live in a normal apartment community and are very happy there.
Don’t underestimate how much time and money you’ll save by never having to pay for lawn care, snow removal, plumbers, electricians, etc. I have a non-money pit house but we still spend a lot of time and money on routine home maintenance and I am often jealous of my parents and their maintenance-free living!
I’ve lived in an apartment in one of the most expensive cities in the world my whole life. I think your husband sounds awful but I don’t get why you have this attitude towards apartment living for an 80yo?
People who can’t afford houses live in apartments. Your mother can’t afford a house.
How long have you two been married?
Five years.
And it’s a second marriage for both of us.
As someone with completely separate finances from my spouse, I agree with most of what your husband is saying here. If you are going to have separate finances, you need to live within your own means, which may mean you need to spend less on your mother if you want to take her on as your financial responsibility. It’s not reasonable for him to have to pay that expense, and I wouldn’t do it in his shoes. I’m surprised you are getting so much support here, especially since it seems that you’ve selected a particularly expensive option for your mother’s living arrangements.
I wouldn’t have a $3800 house if I were living on my own. I lived well within my own means when I was single – I had a two bedroom condo that DH insisted we sell because – I am not kidding – there was nowhere to park his boat and no garage for his other toys. I was making my own mortgage payment and paying off my student loans just fine. I would still have the loans, though, if we hadn’t married, so that is a factor. Payments were $700 and my mortgage was $2200.
I’m going to be honest – it sounds like he resents you and you resent him, and that you guys have relied on separate finances rather than having hard conversations about money. Go to counseling so you can make a decision about whether you’re going to move forward as a unit or get divorced.
I mean that’s nice but where I live, a $3800 mortgage is cheap and unheard of.
But I think the hard part about this (and I’d be curious how you manage it?) is while she can try to live on a separate budget, as a married couple she doesn’t have full autonomy as to what her confines are. Like, I’m guessing if left to her own devices she would prioritize her mom and just sell the vacation home (??) but in a marriage she can’t just make that sell decision, putting her in an impossible situation to solve on her own.
OP, I’m sorry this sounds like a mess with decent points on both sides and you need couples counseling. With what you have described, I don’t think you two are going to solve this on your own, at all.
I’m so sorry, this sounds awful. I’m confused about the second house – did he buy it? Whose name is on the deed and mortgage? What would consequences be if you just stopped paying it?
I wouldn’t want to rely on this guy for my future. I’m guessing you don’t have kids – get out now.
I’m so sorry. I see some financial one-sidedness on both sides. You took on financial obligations to your mom (maybe beyond what was necessary) without talking to DH first about how those might affect your financial obligations to your partnership with him. He sounds like a pretty significant, ungenerous, bean counter. But I’d struggle to deal with his apparent disdain for both your mother an for you. You can’t afford the second house, and should sell it. But then, therapy stat, for you and maybe for you and DH together.
He’s known this was coming for years. We’ve been looking at houses for her for years, and when we bought this house, I urged him to consider properties with an attached or detached in-law cottage/suite, but he didn’t want her to live that close.
I did err in saying that I could afford the weekend house payment in February without foreseeing the impact a high house payment for my mom would have on me in September. I really didn’t think we’d have to spend as much as we did, so the ongoing $1k is my fault. Mortgage rates at 7.5% are not kind right now. I hope we can refi sometime in the future.
Sh!t happens. One of the great parts of marriage is having a spouse that has your back in dealing with it. It sounds like yours wants to dump and blame rather than work constructively with you, and that’s a way bigger problem for the long term.
We even talked about this while we were still dating. I was very upfront about the fact that mom would have to live near me and that I would have to help her out. And at the time I was very involved in caregiving for my 97-year-old grandmother, so there shouldn’t be surprises about what involvement looks like for me.
Well then it does sound like he’s changing the rules on you and that is super unfair.
He’s right about the apartment and the upgrades to the house. Not only did you have $50,000 in one time costs, you have five figures of ongoing costs. That’s not sustainable.
What happens if you or your husband lose your jobs or become disabled? Are you insured well enough (life and disability) that your mother can stay in that house even if you are hit by lightning during the eclipse tomorrow or you lose the ability to work? Your mom’s setup is heavily reliant on you continuing to be a high earner.
It sounds like you did all this stuff for your mom thinking that your husband would take in some of the costs. That’s not really fair to him.
Unpopular view, but I agree. OP committed a lot to something that her H may or may not have been on board with. It sounds like a huge mess.
Honestly – counselling for yourself. It is incredibly challenging to be solely responsible for elder care issues. It’s not just about the money. Even if he was sticking hard about the finances he should be acknowledging the enormous emotional burden of sole responsibility for elder care.
The vows are for richer for poorer. I’d be throwing that back at him if he has such a horrible attitude. Even with separate finances, you are poorer now and he is not approaching that with kindness and love at the forefront.
His wife’s happiness and stress should be more important to him than a weekend house. He should see your pain. He doesn’t have to agree about the money but he does have to be kind and helpful.
OP, your name should be on the deed to your mother’s house if it isn’t already. Once it is, boom–you’re investing in the real estate market, and you will have an asset to sell or rent out when your mom eventually passes. It may not be the least expensive option for her housing or the best possible investment, but it’s hardly irresponsible to help an aging parent live near you. Your husband accusing you of being irresponsible and spending on luxuries to house your mom is ludicrous. Your income currently goes toward your vacation home, which is by definition a luxury!
Financially, owning 3 homes seems like it’s stretching your finances, separate and joint. Is there an opportunity to rent out the vacation home for a few weeks or months every year to help with some of the expenses? If you could get $12K in rent from it, then you’d be even with what you’re paying now.
Relationally, I suggest counseling. You guys clearly have a huge difference in priorities, and it seems like there’s a pretty big breakdown in communication. From his perspective, you probably should have factored in the eventual costs of elder care and not said you could take over the mortgage on a second home. From yours, he needs to adapt to a change in your circumstances.
Finally, I’ve seen several split finance arrangements, but I’ve never seen one where the higher earner paid less in housing costs–not just a lower percentage of income, but a lower dollar amount. Does he have a higher share of other split expenses? Or is this a way of paying him back for him covering more while you paid off loans? If you were to divorce, would the money he’s investing be considered separate or joint property? Whose name(s) are the main house and the vacation home in?
Regarding the deed: as much as the OP believes that her mom will be healthy until she dies in her sleep, that isn’t always the case. She needs to talk to an elder care attorney stat to ensure that her investment is protected in the case of a Medicaid spend-down.
Good point!
This is a waste of money, OP is better off having assets to be able to afford to put her mom in a home than spending down to qualify for free and crummy care.
Anon at 7:34, the “crummy” advice is yours. If the cost of the mother’s care exceeds the ability of the mother and the daughter to pay for it, Medicaid *will* take every asset in the mother’s name. Given that the OP can’t really afford $15k a year in mom’s extra costs now, I doubt she will be able to swing a hundred grand a year, which is what high level care can cost.
So… stop being dumb.
Your description of the difference in earning and the family relationships could honestly be me and DH. Except, we do a percentage of our salaries to joint costs. I know it’s hard to see into other people’s relationships but this feels very transactional, more than a marriage should. DH chooses to support my mom because he knows what she means to me (I also think he genuinely likes her).
Get out the house, get some therapy and think about whether being with someone who is totally inflexible in the face of life’s changes is a too high price of admission.
Can you stay at a friend’s place ? Clearly he has prioritised finances over you in this marriage.
What future? The one he will have without you?
I’ve been divorced (we were a “one pot” marriage), and I’ve been in a long term relationship for many years since, and now thing I was very clear about from the start of this relationship is that I wanted our finances to be separate. So I see where you husband is coming from.
In a way, *he* paid off your student loans–when you could not pay for one of the mortgages and he stepped in so you could focus on your loan debt. . .call it “covering the mortgage” but he was really subsidizing your debt. And I think you are finding out right now how he *really* felt about this, which is unfortunate (to be learning of only now, that is).
But, I wonder what kind of discussions you two had, leading up to getting married, about money, and debt, and what kinds of debt are shared and what kinds of debt belong to solely to the individual. I think it is a huge assumption to believe that just b/c you’re married, both partners are responsible for one another’s debts–especially when they are of this size.
I also agree with him that it *was* your decision to buy a house for your mom instead of her renting an apartment–this was YOUR decision. If you were expecting financial support from him (w/regard to carrying the other mortgage), but you did not consult with him or *allow him to weigh in* on “house v apartment”, but just feel that he somehow owes you this. . .I would not be very happy were I in his shoes right now.
IMO, he *should* be investing his money for the future. He didn’t need to make that comment about “b/c someone needs to be responsible,” but he is right about the investing–I think any financial advisor would have recommended that you not overspend on your mom’s living situation if it comes at the expense of preparing for your own future needs (and. . .did you speak to an advisor BEFORE you bought the house, just to have an objective outsider weigh in on what makes sense. . .maybe owning the home is the better choice, and this advisor could have explained this to you husband, but what if it objectively wasn’t the better choice?). I am having a hard time seeing why this is an issue for you–YOU made the choice to buy your mom a house and take on some of that mortgage, and HE made the choice to continue investing.
Why is your choice the only right choice and his choice the only wrong choice? In a marriage, both sides have to be able to at least honestly attempt to understand the other side. Having one person in the victim role and one person in the perpetrator role is setting things up for a bad ending. Please consider seeing a marriage counselor to bring a caring, experienced, objective outside voice into the conversation. . .this issue isn unlikely to go away on its own.
Hey OP, I don’t think there’s necessarily a right answer on either side. My husband and I have combined finances since being engaged, married and having kids. Sometimes he made more, now I make more. Both our parents gave us money for a downpayment, but his gave much more. With shared kids, one pot and generosity made sense.
I don’t think your marriage is over at all. I think you’ve hit a difficult difference of opinion, and you can work through it. I think marriage counseling and seeing a financial advisor is the way forward. I wonder if a post-nup could help you out here. You did bring debt into the situation, so maybe you have an agreement where not everything is split 50/50. However, you’re contributing a lot, so you shouldn’t undervalue yourself. If you never divorce, then who cares. But this could reassure him if he’s struggling with putting more in. Also, I think he’s a little naive to think he won’t be on the hook to help his aging parents. When they high real medical decline, I really wonder if extended family will be able to manage it for him. Has he actually had discussions with his parents about their aging plan? If not (which I get, it’s very uncomfortable), he doesn’t really know what he’s on the hook for later.
I had 100K in student debt when I married my husband and was a poor public defender. It was just another bill, like the utilities. Over the years, which one of us brought more to the marriage changed. I am so sorry he is acting like this. I mean, maybe you don’t need to buy her a whole home but if it is in your name, it is an investment that can replace the other, second home.
Did you and your husband discuss your mom’s needs and agreed on what you would spend? I didn’t see that anywhere in your post, and that is concerning.
My husband and I have separate finances, mainly because I am a much higher earner and pay for 80% or more of our budget. However, when I wanted to give my sister some money (think it was $25,000 over several gifts), we discussed it together. The discussion was very honest — sis is a teacher so never made a ton of money, she isn’t the best with money (but not the worst),and my desire to share while I’m still alive. Point being, we were in complete agreement that we would give her a specific sum, and that we would let go of any thoughts we had about why my sister needed the money. A few weeks ago, I realized his aunt’s life could be improved by about $3,000. We discussed it, and I wrote a check.
I try to be a generous person, and perhaps your husband doesn’t have a generous spirit. That’s OK, people are in different places on the spectrum of financial generosity. It’s nice to say that your mom’s house is non-negotiable, but apparently you’ve purchased a house you can’t afford without your partner’s agreement. That’s a problem.
My read is your husband resents your mom’s neediness, and you resent his apparent lack of parental responsibility. Resentment in a marriage is a problem, and needs to be addresses. For what it is worth, I consider my husbands family my family, and vice versa. Not always easy, but I remind myself they are the family of my heart.
We likewise maintain separate finances and have a simple rule, “commas require discussion before purchase,” aka if there is a comma in the price, the other needs at least a chance to veto.
Asking this question here will lead to very biased responses. I can see your husband’s point, there is literally no one I would be 100 k+ generous with, even my partner and parents. It’s very frustrating to always be the responsible one, it’s hard knowing you can’t drop the ball because everyone around you is a mess and incapable of their fair share.
This comment is bizarre. I am assuming he knew about the loans going into the marriage, and having student loans does not make one “irresponsible.” If anything, the husband doesn’t sound particularly financially responsible himself given his boat and “toys” that he “needed” a garage for and it sounds like it was his decision to get the second home! This idea of “fair share” is crazy for a marriage – that is language my husband or I would simply never use.
Definitely do not get married then.
+1,000
This reminds me of couple in The Joy Luck Club (been years since I read it but I think she divorces her bean counting husband). Marriage should be a partnership. Maybe that is done with one pot or by keeping separate finances, different strokes. But you two aren’t operating that way. I read the thread and I couldn’t be married to someone like your husband. The lack of generosity and failure to see your mother as his family too would be a dealbreaker for me. That’s of course based on what’s here, real life is more nuanced, but a marriage should be a safe place where you are cared for and work together to face the challenges that life brings. You don’t seem to be getting that at all in this situation.
To be fair, the Joy Luck Club husband would nickel and dime his wife over pints of icecream. That’s definitely a hard line showing he was a real jerk. I’d snap if anyone bean counted my Ben and Jerry’s budget. I can have some sympathy when it comes to paying for entire houses.
Yeah to me bean counting implies much smaller things. I don’t think you can bean count about a house purchase. Even on your high salaries, it’s a lot of money.
I read all the responses, and I hope that I got all of your clarifications, OP.
When I first started reading, I thought that the expense of the house was sprung on hubby, now, after the marriage. But given that he knew and participated in the house shopping, it seems like too much bean counting.
Given the various ownerships of the properties and lack of divorce law knowledge (or any law knowledge) of your state, I think you should contact a lawyer. Everyone is suggesting that you sell the weekend house, but is it in his name only and you’re paying the mortgage? And what if he won’t sell it? And do you get to split retirement funds if he continues to fund his but you don’t fund yours? What will you get if you leave?
I do think you overspent for your mom’s house, perhaps without doing a basic budget. Yes, apartment living sucks and I know from the $$$ bills I’m getting on my parents’ assisted living, a single family house may be cheaper in the long run. But you could have bought her a single level townhouse or condo likely for a lot less. Townhouses and some condos have yards. Townhouses and condos can be modified for aging-in-place. Plus she shouldn’t be paying a car loan and yard service – she could have covered more of the mortgage or all of it if she didn’t have to pay yard service. She’s overspending your (and your husband’s) money and you enabled her.
Additionally, if she can’t stay there alone, you’ll have to or want to help cover the cost of round-the-clock care. That takes big bucks.
It’s pretty confusing and I’m good with budgets but I don’t know if you switched to a percentage of income payment for main house and weekend house if you’d have enough money. He is right that you need to save for retirement. He’s wrong to leave you hanging in the wind. If a percentage of income scheme won’t get you to your goals, selling the weekend house and/or your mom’s house may be necessary. A financial expert might help but you’ll probably need a marriage counselor who also does financial counseling too.
Good luck OP.
This: “Plus she shouldn’t be paying a car loan and yard service – she could have covered more of the mortgage or all of it if she didn’t have to pay yard service. *She’s overspending your (and your husband’s) money and you enabled her.*”
You’re not out of line at all. Your husband sounds awful. Isn’t marriage « for richer and for poorer »? I would be furious beyond belief if my husband acted like this and especially if he was contemptuous of my mum. Your husband lacks the empathy gene.
Separate finances is just deferred conflict.
If you guys can afford that much of a mortgage and two homes, you can take care of your mother. You are not a mooch. He is a miser and it sickens me. What if you become disabled and can’t work at all? Will he take care of you?
What if the husband becomes disabled or can’t work at all? Even selling the vacation house won’t make ends meet.
If my daughter paid off 168k of her husbands student loans and then he turned around and bought a house for his mother without her agreement I’d be furious.
It’s not that he’s a jerk about your mother. It’s that you made a financial commitment to pay for a second home and now you are going back on your word.
It can’t have been a surprise that your aging mother would need financial support some day. Why wasn’t that discussed when you got married.
So much this
I’m putting together a wine basket for a silent auction for our library. Any favorite wines you’d love to see included? And any fave sippy cups to recommend? The library does an outdoor concert series every summer and everyone brings a little picnic basket with cheese and crackers and drinks, so portable wine glasses seemed like a good addition to the basket :)
Rather than sippy cups, I prefer actual wine glasses made of unbreakable material. You can do stems or stemless. They have a ton on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=unbreakable+wine+glasses&hvadid=570505721704&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9031103&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=10631802282986019814&hvtargid=kwd-178468200&hydadcr=13961_13379056&tag=googhydr-20&ref=pd_sl_9dycog3fv9_e
Also, don’t forget a nice corkscrew. And since it’s for the library, maybe a small book about wine and/or cheese? Or a wine tasting log book?
maybe some of those “don’t disturb me unless you’re bringing wine” socks? https://www.amazon.com/s?k=wine+socks&crid=BV2QNT52HW14&sprefix=wine+socks%2Caps%2C93&ref=nb_sb_noss_1
I’m pretty basic with wines – Apothic, 19 crimes, conundrum. Maybe a gift card to the local wine shop for $25 or something also (or: see if they’ll contribute since it’s charity?)
Ridge Vineyard has affordable options. i actually first got a bottle of Ridge from an auction of a mixed case of wines.
Honig is another nice relatively affordable Cali red
+1 to both of these
If you have a local wine shop, I’d go there for the wine. I know my local shop would be psyched to contribute some wine for a good cause and a little free advertising.
This might sound ridiculous, but Sancerres are allegedly kind of an “in” wine right now, and while they are expensive for a white wine they aren’t relative to a nice red, so might be a relatively affordable way to add some “oomph”. (I really like them too, and not just cause they are “in” :)
Since it’s for a library, maybe a bottle of Fiction? It’s a red blend, mostly organic grapes, and on point, thematically. https://fieldrecordingswine.com/product#/2021-fiction-red-duplicate
I like Daou from California. The Pessimist blend is nice and has a pretty label.
I really like Josh. It’s a cheap bottle of course, but my husband and I always have a great time joking about Josh. You could probably find a book or TV show with a lead Josh to throw in the basket. This is probably too cheap for an auction, but it amuses me.
My aunt, “Susan,” and I are jointly providing long-distance caregiving to her sister, “Jane,” (also my aunt, obviously) who has dementia. I think Susan is experiencing compassion fatigue that is manifesting as impatience and, I’m sorry to say, disrespect towards Jane. We just moved Jane into an assisted living facility this week, which is something that has been needed for a while, and this may or may not bring some relief (it’s a tough transition with lots of moving parts at this time). I’m debating whether I need to say something to Susan about the compassion fatigue after the dust settles. I don’t want to criticize the hard work she’s been doing because most of it has fallen on her (she’s retired and I’m not), but I’m really disturbed by some of her comments (and her husband’s comments) and some of her actions as well. As an example, she threw out Jane’s book collection on the day of the move “because this is all junk that she’s just hoarding” instead of considering moving it to the new place or holding onto it until a later date when we could all go through her things together. The latter is what we had agreed to do in multiple conversations, but Susan went ahead and threw things out anyway without so much as confirming that the books didn’t have old letters or other papers between the pages. Another example is Susan and her husband sneering (no other word) at Jane repeating a question 7 times, behind her back.
For a little extra context, Susan and her husband also have a superiority thing going – they think that because they exercise and have social lives, they won’t get dementia and they seem to feel superior to Jane about it (on this or other subjects, they say things like “we take care of ourselves!” in a smug way). I’m not sure this changes no matter what I say. What do I say to them? Or do I stay silent? I KNOW Susan knows that it’s not Jane’s fault and she does love Jane, but this is getting to be too much. I’m in this too and their attitudes make it that much harder. Was considering something like “I know this is really hard. It’s hard for me too. But I need to ask that we speak about Jane with more respect and treat her possessions as valuable. She may not be the same as she once was, but she’s still a person and our family member.”
One final thing – Susan cares and isn’t a monster, so I know she’ll say “you’re right.” The issue is follow-through more than anything.
I think I’d handle this more in the moment, personally. Like if they are saying something rude about Jane, something like, “Why would you say that?” Or “That hasn’t been my experience.” Or even “Please don’t talk about Jane like that around me.”
Compassion fatigue is really hard, and Susan is going through a lot of emotions. This doesn’t give her the right to be disrespectful! But I do think everyone needs the most slack possible right now. If there’s anywhere you can offer to help a bit more or encourage her to leave town for a week or something, that break could also really help.
You are a great niece.
Give it time.
Let the dust settle.
No lectures are helpful.
Especially as you are not the primary caregiver, and are not dealing with this daily.
You will never change Susan’s superiority complex.
Susan knows damn well she is at risk for dementia too and part of her apparent cruelty is her own fear/self-protection mechanism at work.
And Susan is also suffering in ways you cannot know.
BUT….
Your gut impulse is not wrong, and it is fine to gently push back, ask why….. and try to see if there is an additional stressor/underlying issue at play. If so, help if you can.
Make sure you are also thanking Susan for all she has done, and are asking her how she is doing when she is away from her husband.
I hope you can fill your time with Jane with her favorite music, retelling her favorite stories, looking at pictures from Jane’s youth/early years, eating favorite foods, reading to her, touching her and giving her something soft to cuddle and love.
The issue is that I AM dealing with this daily – we both are. Susan takes on more of the load (for example, she took over the finances and is the first POA with me as the second), but it’s been daily for both of us for approximately 3 years. I work full-time and have squeezed in as much as I possibly can in workdays and vacation days and part of me is a little annoyed that Susan is complaining this way when she’s retired AND still lives a full, active life in the time that’s left. Ugh.
I definitely thank Susan a lot and will make sure I continue to during this time. It’s hard for both of us.
I see…. this is unusual. I think you both are spending too much time, if you both appear to be so overwhelmed and burned out. Sounds like Assisted Living is sorely needed.
You both need a break.
Give it time.
Let your Aunt settle into Assisted living. Stop doing stuff every day.
Split the load, let your older aunt do more.
Start blocking out Aunt’s complaining. Grey rock it. You can’t change her. Set your own healthy boundaries now. You’re doing a great job.
Complaining here is the right move. IMO you can complain OUT but when you complain IN (to someone more centrally involved) and it’s not in person / in the moment, it lands wrong and can tend to spiral and get stuck in their minds. You aren’t wrong. But it’s probably the compassion fatigue talking. Not the hill to die on.
Stress tends to amp up all our flaws, and you’ve seen Susan’s on full display. You may be able to address some of it later, but if she’s old enough to have a sister with dementia, there are likely not going to be a lot of changes of long-standing patterns (like criticizing people or faulting them for not measuring up to her standards) unless she’s motivated to work really hard on them.
This whole move sounds like it was really rough on all of you. Thank you for investing all you have invested in helping Susan and Jane, and for helping Susan shoulder this load.
I think you’re right. Thanks everyone for the responses. I think I also just needed to vent for a minute.
Oh yeah. Caregiver support groups were a godsend to me. No one else really understands.
You have to vent to someone.
As someone who just did this with my in laws and threw so much junk away, I’m kinda team Susan on that front. Honestly she did you a favor, you don’t need to spend time sorting through a bunch of junk now or later. On the compassion front, keep your mouth shut, hard as it is. You’ll both need the support of each other and don’t alienate an ally.
+1 OP needs to keep her mouth shut, Susan did the hard work while OP did not.
That isn’t true – you don’t know the work I’ve done. And Susan is throwing away beautiful books that belonged to my grandfather that she knew that we all wanted to save. But I know I’m in for a pile-on from some no matter what I’ve done or what’s been agreed, so I won’t enlighten you.
I’ve seen many people over the years recommend no contact after a breakup on this board and elsewhere. I had a recent breakup of a long term relationship. After having several weeks of no contact, I had to reach out to my ex to settle up a bill that he had agreed to pay well before the breakup (and it was large enough I didn’t just want to pay myself). Contact was amicable via email/text. Unfortunately, I feel like I’ve regressed a bit and have been thinking of him more, missing him and so on. I know the only way out is through and no contact is for the best to break the attachment but damn it’s hard to have a setback.
Sending you hugs, you are doing the right thing for you. I know is hard but you have to do it until you have finished all the stages of the griving process of the break up that it is when you do not longer care.
Two things that help, writte down a list of all the reasons why you break up and read it when need it and, similar to this one have a friend that reminds you why you were no happy and you need to end things.
The brain work this way and there is a point when it only reminds the good things and forget the bad ones.
Thank you for the support and tips! Fortunately I do have a list of 40 items of why the break up was good/needed. Some of them a little petty (no more whiskers in the sink, no more wearing earplugs bc of his snoring) but they all help. This is a good reminder to refer to read it often. Thanks also for the letter from a friend idea.
I was about to email a coworker I sort of know and work together remotely with about something work-related, and realized that I remembered she was from Israel. How would be a good way to check in with her and if she still has family in Israel and if they are ok without being intrusive. I am terrible at finding words for these type of things.
I would say something like “I hope that you and your family are okay during this terrible week.” and leave it at that. I would say more for someone I know well.
+1, I think she will appreciate the acknowledgement but no need to go into more detail.
+2
I just did exactly this.
It was well received.
This is good wording.
What I said was “I hope your loved ones in Israel are safe and remain out of harm’s way and that the best minds find us all a way out of this tragic moment.” Or something like that. It was appreciated by my Israeli friend and two of my American Jewish friends who I needed to get in touch with for another reason. Apparently the latter had been stewing for 4 days waiting for me to reach out to say something. Oh, well, I’ve been forgiven and they did seem to appreciate the sentiment.
Wedding question.
I went to my cousin’s wedding recently. She’s the bride. Between the ceremony and reception they asked family to stay behind for pictures. So there were entire extended family pics, then a pic of the bride and groom with my side of the family, then just her parents + the bride and the groom etc.
But then I noticed when they were taking the groom’s side of the family pictures, she was standing kind of awkwardly distant from her husband, and then I realized that was because she wasn’t included in the photos. I walked over to her and said what’s up and she said she was stuck there because her dress was already arranged just so for photos, so we took some selfies with her to fill in the awkwardness.
Is that normal- the bride being left out of the groom’s family photos? It seems like some sort of implication that she’s still not regarded as part of the family.
FWIW her parents paid for the photographer, who is a friend the bride, and they didn’t have any bride’s side photos excluding the groom.
No that’s not normal and I think you know it– sure a few pics of bride with her nuclear family and groom with his, but otherwise all the family pics are with both of them….that being kind of the point of the event
amending my response– I agree with the others that if the bride is standing to the side for a few “groom’s family” shots that’s fine and normal. I assumed from the post that the bride was being excluded from almost all the pictures on that side, which would be bizarre.
OP here, as far as I could tell, there were no groom’s side only photos including her. The only groom’s side photos that included her were the bigger pictures including her family as well.
Anecdata: recent family wedding included many many full couple + various family combinations which was definitely the majority of photos, but also a decent number of bride OR groom with respective family of origin (eg, groom with his parents, groom with all siblings, groom with just sisters, groom with just brothers, groom with each sibling individually, etc).
+1. I think this is pretty common.
I just went to a wedding last weekend and they did all kinds of configurations of pics, including some of just the bride or groom with their respective families (even extended). It would be weird for a while photo shoot, but just a couple of snaps is normal and no big deal, in my opinion.
at my wedding we took pictures with bride + groom with everyone, but we also did a few pictures of just bride + dad or bride + nuclear family, and ditto for groom. I think I took pictures just with some of my closest girlfriends too.
I think it would be weird if she wasn’t in any of the photos with his family, but a lot of these photo sessions do pretty much every possible configuration of people and if they want to do some that are just groom and siblings or groom and parents or whatever, that seems fine. Excluding her from all of them does send a message, though.
OP here, thanks for the reality check everyone.
I guess I will make my final judgment when/if the groom’s family sends out this year’s Christmas photo using one of the photos excluding my cousin!
I think we did both…not that we ever look at those photos. We did me with my family before the ceremony; him with his family before the ceremony; us with my family after; us with his family after. I’d chalk it up to the groom’s side tradition?
Was she in no photos with the groom’s family? That’s weird to me. But I do think it’s normal to do a set with the couple (bride + groom) and then with just the nuclear family member.
We definitely did one-sided pictures at our wedding. I coordinated the picture list as the bride and I just assumed my in-laws would like getting pictures of just them and their relatives all dressed up together since it doesn’t happen all that often. In my family the one picture we had of all my dad and his siblings together in the last twenty years was because of my grandfather’s funeral, so it never even occurred to me that someone might be put off by it!
We did pictures with just me and my various family combinations, and just DH and his various family combinations, before the ceremony. After the ceremony, we were both in all the family photos, including extended family photos. If there’s not time or space for all that before the ceremony, I don’t think it’s that weird to get a few shots of just the bride or groom with their families of origin.
In grad school I worked as a wedding photographer assistant and some families requested this blatantly “in case of a divorce.” I found it quite strange myself, but it’s not unheard of.
We just celebrated 19 years and did some me with my family and him with his family photos when we got married. My parents did as well when they got married in the 70s.
I would think it’s weird if his family *only* wanted photos without her, but other than that, no, not weird at all.
Totally normal. Weddings are often the only time extended family is together and dressed up. I’ve also seen it done after funerals for the same reason.
does anyone here do a basic meal prep of a bunch of ingredients and then mix and match throughout the week? i’m thinking of one week doing chicken, one week doing ground beef, one week doing pork tenderloin, etc. just trying to figure out how to be more creative than quesadillas or tacos.
My best friend does this and it looks miserable to me. It takes a lot of work to prep it all and then she complains about being sick of the meat of the week by day 3. I don’t meal prep for various reasons and one of them is because I also get sick of eating the same meat (or main) each day, even with a new sauce or whatever on it.
I will probably go down in flames for this, but I feel like the meal prep stuff is better for people who view food as fuel rather than people who just really really like good tasting food.
I’m the one who doesn’t meal prep and I’m not a foodie at all – I just don’t want to waste precious weekend hours chopping up vegetables that are going to be soggy and annoying by day 3. I wouldn’t want to waste the hours even for amazing results! I much prefer really basic meals for weeknights – pasta with frozen meatballs (we can get a nice organic brand here) and roasted zucchini is a go-to and requires no real work or prep.
I have a friend who has a side hustle making meal prep heat and serve type meals for rich people who are into fitness. She has brought her food to our gatherings a couple of times. 1) she never brings enough (I guess we’re not supposed to eat much!) and 2) that’s ok because it’s all incredibly bland. She is serving people who are eating food for fuel only, and she’s the same way.
Nope, I completely agree with you.
I think I’d be sick from the meat by day 3!
I think you’re supposed to refrigerate it so that it doesn’t make you sick.
I think Cooking with Paula Deen magazine does this. There’s a protein for the week and they then mix and match and give you a shopping list for the week.
I do, but only for chicken and still add in 1-2 days of something else.
Rotisserie Costco chicken Day 1.
something else. (eg salmon)
Chicken and black beans Quesadillas Day 3
something else (eg egg scramble)
Curried chicken salad with cashew/pistachio Day 5
pizza/take out
leftovers / cheese & crackers / grazing + veg. Day 7
Piggybacking on a meal-prep question. Wednesday night I chopped an onion, used a third of it in a recipe, and put the rest in a glass jar to use in recipes later. This morning I had to throw the whole jar away because my refrigerator STANK. Anything to mitigate the smell? Should I have sealed the jar in a plastic bag?
I find it best to chop the entire onion and freeze the portion. I am not using.
Was the jar closed? I dislike having partially used bits of food, so I avoid this issue by always using the whole onion. I just add more to the recipe, cook it all and then put the extra in the fridge to easily use for something else, or pickle it. Pickled onions last for a few weeks and don’t stink up the fridge, though the onion smell has definitely permeated the plastic lid of my pyrex bowl badly enough that one is now permanently devoted to pickled onions.
Yes, the jar was closed.
Onion oxidizes when cut, so you’re better off leaving it as whole as possible in the fridge. Even cooked, oxidized onion doesn’t taste very good – sharp and stinky instead of sweet. So either cut off the third of the onion you’re using and leave the rest in one piece with the cut side down in a sealed storage container until you use it, or chop the whole thing and freeze the unused portion. You can toss the frozen chopped onion right into your pan when you cook with it, no need to thaw.
That makes sense, thank you! Luckily the weather’s still nice so I left the windows open when I left.
I put leftover onion portions that have not been chopped in a zip-loc freezer bag, and the onion smell rarely leaks out.
For the onion smell (and all fridge smells in general): place orange peels in your fridge! And change/refresh as needed when they dry out
Works much better than baking soda.
I don’t do this (I just eat the same meal prepped meal for 4 days) but empty nester my aunt and uncle love doing this with a rotisserie chicken . They go to once a month and get a rotisserie chicken. Night one is rotisserie chicken. Night two is a pasta or rice and chicken dish using leftovers. Night 3 is chicken salad or leftover chicken over a green salad.
No, I’d get sick of having the same protein all week.
We do a variation on this though – like this weekend we’re making a big batch of chicken pot pie. We’ll eat two servings immediately and then freeze the rest into meal-sized containers. We do the same thing with other proteins – some in a meal like lasagne, some just packets of things like taco meat that’s already cooked and seasoned – we’ll cook 2-3 lbs of it at a time since the mess-to-food ratio of batch cooking is infinitely lower than doing a new thing daily.
Then it’s just “which one do you want tonight”? in the morning to defrost.
I’ve been doing this for lunch lately. I work from home, but whether at home or in the office, eating a healthy, normal lunch has always been a challenge for me. During the weekend, usually Sunday afternoon with football on in the background, I roast some chicken breast (bone-in, skin-on so it doesn’t dry out during the week) and cook 4-6 servings of a grain like quinoa or farro. For weekday lunches, I make a grain bowl with whatever I’ve cooked, chicken breast, whatever fresh or leftover vegetables are in the refrigerator, and whatever dressing I’m in the mood for (this week, I used Ranch, balsamic vinaigrette, and Greek yogurt seasoned with tumeric). Another week, I may do egg salad or chicken salad or seasoned chickpeas instead of chicken breast.
I don’t mind eating the main dish all week, but it looks like I’m in the minority. (And I definitely err on the side of practicality with cooking). But one way you could mix things up more is by prepping, cooking and then freezing your proteins in smaller portions. If you do a large batch of one each week but don’t eat all of it, after a few weeks you would have a stash of each type in the freezer, and then you could defrost them a day at a time so you wouldn’t have to have the same meat daily.
I just don’t think meat cooked on Sunday is still edible by Thursday.
It definitely is as long as it’s in the fridge and not sitting out on your counter or something like that.
ISO a coat similar to the Ba&sh Carole – short belted wool coat, shawl but not foldover collar, looks kind of apres ski/upscale mountain house. Any ideas where I could find something in a similar style?
Are you looking for something less expensive? Or in a different size range? Because that coat is gorgeous and I say you should get it.
Otherwise, look at Aritzia and Sezanne, although I don’t see anything with all of the details.
OMG, I want!
Any contacts for a divorce atty in Mexico? Oaxaca state, if that matters
Inspired by the question above, for what relatives have or would you let move in with you or subsidize their housing or bills? What do you do if there is a difference of opinion between spouses? How do you get on the same page about this, especially if your family’s needs are different or your views on the person are different?
Any of our parents. We probably wouldn’t move them in as we don’t have space, but we currently subsidize my mother in law, and would do the same if my parents end up needing help. We don’t have any childfree aunts or uncles, but if we did, we’d care for them too. We both see family as our most important community and have a duty to care for them. Plus, we love them. We’re also a one pot marriage.
Oh I’d help any of our siblings and cousins too if they needed it.
When I married my husband, we had both already lost our dads.
First we subsidized husband’s mother. She had to go live in a facility that had increasing levels of care. Her oldest daughter lived the closest and did the budgeting. She figured how much the monthly shortfall for MIL would be after her social security and pension, and split that between 3 of the 5 siblings. She excepted herself because she was doing all the daily care, and excepted another sibling because they couldn’t afford it. We happily paid that for the rest of her life.
For my mom in her latter days, one of my siblings and I paid for an eldercare attorney who got all of her ducks in a row, then we each just paid a monthly amount plus any surprise expenses not contemplated in the budget.
Neither parent came to live with us, neither would have wanted to, so it basically worked out the way each of them wanted, though the final couple of years were really tough for both of them due to health problems. I would have liked for my mom to come live with us for a while (not saying I wouldn’t have also liked my MIL to do that, but she lived much further away and husband’s sister would have never let that happen) and I talked to a contractor about changing my house to accommodate her, but at the end of the day my mom didn’t want to move away from the small town she’d lived in for decades, and of course we honored that. We visited her as often as we could with two busy careers and teens involved in lots of activities.
We let my SIL and her family move in, and I imagine we would let anyone in that range (parents/siblings) move in, but of course subject to conversation. It helped that we saw this coming a mile away so had already discussed the plan before she moved in.
I would want to help my parents or have them move in with us if they ran out of money. They have an eight figure estate (much, much more than me and my husband), so us helping them financially is very unlikely, but if something catastrophic happened I would want to help as much as possible. They’ve saved their whole lives and have been responsible with money (see: eight figure estate). They’ve also been extremely involved grandparents and have done a ton for and with our kids, and while they didn’t do it expecting payback, I feel extra obligated to make sure nothing bad happens to them. I don’t think them living with us would be ideal for anyone, but it’s something I would consider if we couldn’t afford adequate assisted living.
My in-laws cannot move in with us, at least as long as my FIL is alive. He’s emotionally and verbally abusive. Similarly to my parents, I’m not enthusiastic about my MIL moving in, but would consider it under certain circumstances. They have no cash money saved, despite earning a lot, so the plan is they will spend down their assets (they do own a couple homes probably worth at least $1M combined) and then go to whatever facility Medicaid will pay for.
DH is on the same page about how we will handle his parents. I think it would be hard for him if we were helping my parents but not his, but that’s very unlikely to happen.
We subsidized assisted living, as well of higher levels of care for my father in law, including medical and medication costs, for over four years at a total out of pocket of over $250k. We fully expect to have to do the same for my parents in a few years.
None. Both sets of parents are far better off financially than we are. If the amount of money they have on hand isn’t sufficient, the extra $500/month we have available isn’t going to make a difference anyways. The silver lining to not having much flex in the budget, I guess?
We also don’t want to strain our marriage by moving parents in. When they were young and healthier, they were already difficult. A lot of “this is our house, not yours, so finish your plate and shut up.” I can’t imagine what having them live with us would look like.
If there was an “outside of their control” catastrophe, any parents or siblings. If they had the capacity to self-help through this situation, even if doing so was hard or resulted in a lower standard of living (like, canceling cable lower, not like going without heat in the winter lower), we’d be a support system as they did that. In other words—we will take on the responsibilities of other adults if, and only if, they actually can’t manage them themselves anymore.
We have had two threads today about spousal conflict related to elder care. I am curious if anyone discussed this before they married and how those discussions were framed? I have certainly seen lot of discussion surrounding how often parents visit, holidays, and sometimes finances but I was curious about how granular the discussions were and how helpful people found them.
Not really, although I’m realizing now it could be a contentious issue….my parents live here and my in-laws are a 9 hour drive away. We also have a better and more open relationship with my parents, whereas our relationship with in-laws is much more dictated by guilt/familial obligation. We do love them, but have very different values so it is sometimes hard for my husband to be around them. Maybe something fun for us to talk about this weekend :)
My folks didn’t. It was the nail in my parents’ already failing marriage, since my dad couldn’t deal with not being the center of attention. Even after they divorced and my maternal grandmother died, my mom shouldered caregiving for my dad’s relatives as well.
I’ve seen this play out in multiple times in different families.
No, we never thought to discuss that or any number of other difficult things life has thrown at us.
Sorry to duplicate the question above! It had not posted when I hit “enter”.
My husband and I were older so yes. We could see it coming. We never fought about it at all. If my husband had behaved like the husband in the first post, I would have left him a long time ago.
My husband and I got married quickly and didn’t talk anything to death before that, but we fundamentally shared a near identical value system. That’s made it easy to navigate things that have come up in life, like elder care. That wasn’t on our radar when we met because our parents were healthy and much younger then. But we believe in caring for family and have had no conflicts related to the expense of it. Now, whose turn is it to go visit? That one still gets a debate or two:)
Honestly, we didn’t. We married young, our parents were obviously much younger, and it was not something we thought to discuss. Thankfully, I don’t believe we’ll be in a situation where we need to financially support anyone. But my MIL does need a lot more physical caregiving and it has caused tension sometimes. Not because I want to deny her that but it does affect how our immediate family functions and how much I can expect from my own partner. We are taking it as it comes.
Do know that I will have to spend money on my mother. She’s only 65 and I already am, in fact, buying her things like very used cars and appliances. My belief is that we put on our own oxygen masks first; we save for our kid’s college; if we have something left over, we can help her.
We’re in some pretty stressful elder care situations now but I’m glad we didn’t discuss in advance. We have what I would consider an unusually strong marriage and can tackle any problems with each other’s complete support, so for us it made sense not to “game out” all the dreaded scenarios and to instead trust that we could handle things. For me, too much pre-planning for unpredictable situations increases the anxiety a lot (learned it the hard way).
+1
We didn’t explicitly talk about it, but we knew that it was more likely that we’ll inherit money than have to financially support parents on both sides… but you never know for sure how things will turn out and we’re both practical people, so we’ll do what has to be done if it comes down to it. Even if we don’t have to provide money, I’m sure there will be some level of caregiving eventually, though, luckily we should be able to share it with siblings who are all decent, practical people too.
I just commented above, but DH and I definitely discussed this before marrying. My in-laws are relatively high earners but are completely broke and in their late 70s with no cash savings to speak of, and I wanted to make sure that he didn’t envision spending $100k+/year on their care. We’re affluent, but that would seriously destroy our ability to save for our own retirement, not to mention eliminate any luxuries like vacations. My in-laws are still working for now, but the plan is that once they’re unable to work they’ll sell their property, spend down that money and then go on Medicaid. If it’s possible for us to supplement a bit (e.g., a few hundred a month) in a way that would get them into a noticeably better living situation, we’re open to that, but we’re not going to be paying for a $10k/month facility. DH is in full agreement that saving for our own retirement and our kids’ college education has to be a higher priority.
We had extensive discussions about it before marrying. My husband grew up in a multi-generational family and I had never experienced that before meeting him. I’m kind of all over the place with this. My father died when I was young and my mother was very careful to select where she lived and how she lived so that she could remain independent as she aged. She was very determined to not be a “burden” on her children as she aged. She was planning to move to a CCRC but had a fatal stroke before she could. That said, she raised us in a community that had extensive amenities for an aging population, like subsidized transportation to medical appointments and shopping, interesting programs at the senior centers, a telephone companion line, etc. She had also had her house outfitted with the alterations for aging in place when she was still in her 60s, so they helped her stay in the house longer. Where we live now, which is very close to my MIL, has none of those amenities, so the transportation to the extremely frequent doctor’s appointments fall on us. My MIL’s retirement income is higher than our current household income so we don’t expect to have to financially support her, but we do need to provide rides, shopping help, tech support, etc, all of which means our time is almost entirely devoted to her and her needs.
We talked about family dynamics and even though we were young, the topic of elder care did come up. It’s come up a few times over the years as parents have aged, and thankfully we have always been on the same page in terms of what we did for whom.
We discuss this pretty thoroughly before getting married since everyone in DHs family gets cancer, etc young where as everyone in my family lives to 100 and passes in their sleep.
We discussed the big picture. We met when we were 30 and are planners. My parents are also across the country, while we live in the same town as my in laws so it was important to us to get on the same page about that. We’re lucky to have similar relationships to our families and similar outlooks on our priorities/how much we want to help.
You can’t pregame everything life is going to hit you with. And even if you do, it’s a fools errand as the circumstances you’re in when things actually happen are rarely the same. You’re better off aligning on values and a shared worldview.
It was something we discussed, but not in great detail since our parents weren’t elderly at the time and to be frank, we’re both from similar backgrounds so the expectations were pretty similar in terms of what is expected.
Not married, but very long-term partnered. We have been together since I was 31 and he was 41. Early on in the relationship, we discussed the importance of family to each of us, our views on elder care responsibilities, and our parents’ respective means and long-term care planning. His mom now lives in a condo in our city that they own together, and her transition was almost seamless because of our pre-planning. My parents are much younger and still fully independent, but it will be an easy transition for them to when/if it needs to happen.
FWIW, we are very high earners for our area but not so much compared to most of the commenters on this s*te. We are both planners and are lucky that our parents are too.
If you find “Israel Defense Forces” on “X,” they are doing daily live briefings in English. I
I will look for information in other place.
“The EU opens an investigation into disinformation on the X network.
The European Commission announced this Thursday the opening of an investigation into the spread of disinformation and violent content on the X network related to the war between Israel and the Palestinian Islamist movement Hamas.
The European Commissioner for the Internal Market, Thierry Breton, had sent a letter to the owner of X, Elon Musk, on Tuesday to warn him for the dissemination of misinformation on the platform.
In that same letter, Breton gave Musk 24 hours to detail the measures taken at X to stop the spread of violent images, misinformation and illegal content.”
This is literally the official social media account of a sovereign nation. Not disinformation.
It’s downright creepy how people think “disinformation” should be investigated, sanctioned, and banned. Just remember, “Saddam Hussein doesn’t have WMDs” was once anti-government disinformation!
Russia is a sovereing nation too, Iran also. I prefer to get information from free press. BBC is receiving critics by both sides then maybe a good place to get unbyas information.
Thanks. Israel has agreed to safe passage routes for civilians but it’s unclear if Hamas will permit that.
Good, because yesterday and this morning Israel has been bombing the families using those routes trying to go south (confirmed by UNRWA)
Hamas really needs to return the hostages. We shouldn’t forget that.
It seems Israel hasn’t agreed to open Rafah despite pressure from USA and EU to allow humanitarian aid to enter in Gaza. 600,000 Palestinians, out of 1 million, have abandoned their homes in the north and fled to the south.
Sweaters: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/10/sweater-clothing-quality-natural-fibers-fast-fashion/675600/?gift=yTBCuVShA1FgWIj6mYkXFn-NZcLzIvij8VnMA6NXOVY&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share (I’m trying to gift this, hopefully it is not behind a paywall).
The only place I can find good quality sweaters at a less than nose bleed price point is the men’s department. That’s not just true of sweaters either, dress pants, basic button downs, even jeans are higher quality at lower price points in the men’s department.
The problem is that women in general care more about looking current and having a wider variety of clothes than men do and this is the result. When you’re putting out a new line every few weeks because your target audience wants something new, you’re not going to invest in quality materials because it is just not profitable.
I read that too and finally felt like I wasn’t just crazy – buying new sweaters has become such a gamble. And I check labels! I look for 100% wool or cashmere. It still doesn’t guarantee anything. Sometimes I think I should only buy vintage sweaters 10 years or older. The same thing is happening with t-shirts too I think. I found an old Brooks Brothers polo from the 90s (!) while cleaning out a closet and it’s shocking how much better it looks than anything I have bought in the last few years.
And I don’t think it’s just a women’s issue only. Maybe some men’s stuff is a bit better but not by much. Mr. AIMS shrunk his favorite cashmere sweater in the wash last year and I went to get him an identical replacement at JCrew and it pilled instantly. Meanwhile, the shrunken sweater was wearing well for 5 years plus and I am still wearing it without any pills in its now-shrunken state.
I’m 1145 above, and while I agree that there is some quality difference when comparing menswear to menswear, it pales in comparison to the difference between menswear and womenswear at equal price points. Women generally have to go to a higher price point to get the same quality men get at a lower one.
Thank you for sharing the gift link!
Any Coloradans here? We just drove from Denver to Aspen and my daughter got really motion sick around Independence Pass. For our trip home, is connecting to I-70 in Glenwood Springs likely to be any better?
Yes, I-70 is much better. It goes along the river at Glenwood, so it’s pretty and you’re not going through crazy curves.
That is one of the most beautiful drives in America, IMO. Jealous of anyone who gets to be in that part of Colorado right now.
I’m OP and it’s lovely!! But COLD. I was not prepared for how cold it would be.
Thanks!