I’ve drooled over Smythe blazers for years now, but I think this is one of the first times I’ve seen a full wool suit from them — and there’s a matching waistcoat, as well!
(For my $.02, I’d probably wear only two of the pieces at a time unless you want to try to pull off the three-piece suit look — and I’d still layer a black tank, tee, or turtleneck beneath the vest, or perhaps a silky collared blouse.)
I love the sharp shoulders and wide lapels of the blazer, as well as the wide bootcuts — they’re almost flared.
The suit pieces are $425-$795 each, but you can earn a $50-$300 gift card today at Neiman Marcus.
(Looking for something more affordable? This Brooks Brothers suit we featured a few weeks ago is still available and on sale for $178-$348, and this navy pinstriped suit from & Other Stories is price at $129-$179 per piece. In plus sizes: this City Chic black pinstriped pants suit is down to lucky sizes, and Eloquii has this pinstriped vest-and-pant combo (also at Nordstrom).
This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!
Workwear sales of note for 5.26.23:
- Nordstrom – The Half-Yearly Sale just started!
- Amazon – Memorial Day Sales! Lots of discounts on Amazon Essentials and more.
- Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off all sale styles (through 5/29); 40% off your entire purchase (including suiting).
- Anthropologie – Extra 40% off sale.
- Athleta – Up to 60% off, PLUS an extra 30% off!
- Banana Republic – Summer preview, 30% off your purchase!
- Banana Republic Factory – 50%-70% off everything + extra 25% off purchase
- Bloomingdale’s – Memorial Day Sale, save up to 50% off on summer essentials, plus save up to 40% on designer items!
- Boden – 30% off everything, including sale (ends 5/29).
- Brooks Brothers – Extra 25% off sale; already up to 70% off (ends 5/31) – also mix & match sale with men’s shirts, 4 for $249.
- Cole Haan – Up to 50% off sale styles.
- Eloquii – 400+ styles starting at $19; up to 50% off everything.
- Everlane – Up to 30% off, 400+ sale styles.
- Express – Summer kickoff sale, 30-50% off everything (plus $35+ steals).
- H&M – Up to 60% off online and in-store.
- J.Crew – 40% off your purchase; extra 50% off sale styles; up to 50% off summer styles
- J.Crew Factory – 50-70% off entire site and storewide; extra 60% off clearance.
- J.McLaughlin – Up to 40% off!
- Loft – 40% off full-price styles
- M.Gemi – MDW sale, up to 70% off (but returns accepted only for store credit).
- M.M.LaFleur – Short but sweet sale.
- Madewell – Get 30% off your purchase.
- Ministry of Supply – 25% off sitewide.
- Sephora – Up to 50% off select beauty
- Shopbop – Up to 50% off designer sale!
- Sue Sartor – Lots of cute dresses on sale!
- Talbots – 40% off one item, 30% off everything else (through 5/29).
- Theory – Up to 60% off + an extra 20% off.
- Universal Standard – Up to 35% off!
- Victoria’s Secret – this weekend only, buy 3 panties get 5 free ones.
Other noteworthy sales:
- CB2.com – Up to 50% off everything!
- Joss & Main – Up to 60% off, plus an extra 20% off with code.
- Tuft & Needle – Save up to $775 on mattresses. (Reader favorite bed brand; Kat really likes hers!)
- West Elm – Memorialy Day Sale, up to 60% off.
Anonymous
Given this morning’s wedding gift thread, I was wondering if anyone (especially those who think people secretly want gifts) has a no-gifts script that will be believed? I truly absolutely do not want gifts, I’m not saying it to be polite, it’s what I genuinely want. I am always direct and honest but struggle with people ‘reading between the lines’ for words that aren’t there. Why don’t people take words at face value?! sigh
Senior Attorney
Maybe just say that, and add “if you truly can’t help yourself (BUT REALLY PLEASE NO GIFTS), give a gift to the charity of your choice instead.”
Ribena
Yes I was going to say this – there are some people (my mother…) who will even ignore a gift registry and give something else, their desire to give is so great. Directing that wish towards a charity or two helps channel it.
Anon
+1 we said no gifts please, and when asked, recommended a charity that has meaning to us. But we still got gifts, which were unwelcome. We had everything we needed after combining households, and the gifts we got were often a third version of something we’d already had to cull a second version of.
When people say no gifts, please please please believe them!!
Anon
I just see it as more to donate to a worthy cause or kid heading off to a first apartment.
Anon
Which creates a task for the giftee. Two tasks, because there’s the mandatory thank you note for something you don’t want. If you want to be charitable, donate directly to the charity.
Anon
Ooh Anon at 2:34 I think you just made me realize why I really dislike physical gifts. My love language is acts of service. So giving me a physical gift I do not want that creates two extra tasks I have to create really feels like the opposite of love. You literally have done the opposite thing of how I prefer to receive love. Which hurts. Especially if I’ve told you this before.
anon
Ha! Last night, DH and I ordered pizza. We had a coupon for a free gift with a purchase of pizza. DH took the coupon in, and we were expecting, like, dessert or maybe a branded tote bag or t-shirt. The free gift was an 8-pack of cheap steak knives with no apparent connection to the pizza restaurant. We both thought it was weird and hilarious and immediately started making plans to get rid of them.
My optimistic 7 yo was like, “Better than getting nothing at all, right?” I said no, because now we have something else to do. And DH said yes, because now he has a funny story.
I left the knives on the please-take counter in my office this morning.
Anonymous
My mom is one who says she doesn’t want presents but does and judges, at least around big gift occasions like weddings. These people exist and it is frustrating. I feel like the least objectionable way to exist in the same world is to focus on a charity instead. You get a clutter free home, they get to do whatever mental gymnastics are needed in meeting social expectations and norms, and at worst, someone in need of donations that matters to you will benefit. Wins all around.
Anonymous
and this is the reason we stopped doing friends birthday parties. not only would there be *that* parent, who would bring a gift regardless, there would also be several who didn’t understand what RSVP meant. it’s almost as if no one believes there are people out there who genuinely do not want to be given more stuff.
i once jokingly told a like-minded friend that i was going to re-write the first half of ‘green eggs and ham’ and make it about gifts… we do not want them, sam i am.
anon
Some people will be bound and determined to not follow it, no matter what you say. I have not found charitable giving to be a substitute in these individuals’ minds.
anon
Yep, I think in their minds they are the best gift-givers ever and the recipients will be in awe of the gift they give. It’s all about them.
Anon
Narrator: the recipient was not, it turns out, in awe.
Anon
Hahahaha
anon
Cue the cries of “but gift-giving is my love language!!!”
Anon
I see you have met my husband.
Anon
My mother is like this, and it’s awful. People (not just me) hate receiving gifts from her because she expects this over-the-top groveling from people about how wonderful the gift is and how perfect it is (even if it’s not) and how she must have spent hours picking out the right gift, etc. A simple “thanks, that’s so thoughtful” is never enough. If the level of thanks doesn’t, in her mind, equal the level of effort she put into selecting and wrapping the gift, she gets mad and can sulk for months. She did this to one of my aunts and my aunt bluntly told her “do not get me any more gifts. I don’t want to deal with the emotional blackmail that comes with your gifts.”
It is, 100% all about her and I have found with most gift-givers who are intent on giving gifts (and receiving groveling thanks in return) it is all about them, and not at all about the person they are gifting to. They give gifts because it makes them feel good; the focus is not at all on the person receiving the gift. And then if they don’t get a medal and a parade for “choosing the perfect gift,” the recipient is the one who’s selfish, inconsiderate, etc. It’s some kind of refined, escalated narcissism or something.
Anonymous
This is my grandmother. I hate being held emotional hostage and being forced to write flowery thank you letters for sh*t I did not want and expressly asked not to receive. But noooo I’m the monster if I don’t bend to her will.
Anon
It’s so strange to me that people have a hard time following these requests/instructions. If the invitation says black tie, the guest doesn’t say “screw it, I’m wearing jeans because that’s what I want to do”. Or the ceremony says 4pm and the guest wants it to be at 5pm so they show up at 5pm. Same thing goes for missing the RSVP date and so on.
Anon
I said “X.”
“But surely you meant not-X.”
Anon
“Please no gifts” is the most direct although I know some people think it’s gauche to write on an invitation?
Anon
From the thread this morning, it seems like some folks will disregard because surely you didn’t mean it!
Anon
I think “please no gifts” is very different than “your presence is present enough”
anon
I agree with this.
Anonymous
Because in some families the words don’t mean what they say they mean. As a gift giver from a gift giving family, “Your presence is gift enough”
combined with something about donations with a couple of options tells me, no you really really don’t want something physical.
Anon
This. I know several people who said this because they wanted cash.
Anon
Can we stop indulging these people?
It really makes things incredibly difficult for the rest of us when we are supposed to know what someone actually means versus what the say they mean.
This feels not so different than the men who won’t take “no” for an answer unless they hear it repeatedly because some women like to play hard to get.
Let’s all stop indulging people who can’t vocalize what they want!
Vicky Austin
I’ll join you! This is a big peeve of mine.
Anon
I would not give people who say “no gifts, please” a gift. If they said no gifts but didn’t really mean it, let it be a lesson to them.
Mouse
I asked for no gifts at one of my wedding showers because multiple friends threw me showers/events, and many of the same people were invited to each. I know all of these folks well, and most are more than happy to follow instructions, but quite a few, well, forgot. For many folks shower/bday/wedding = gift, and there’s no ill will behind it.
My two cents is – you can’t “make” people behave the way you’d like them to, and you can’t changes people’s feelings. So, if there is someone who makes a stick about this, there’s no point is wasting energy trying to understand or dissect their reasonings.
For some people, it will absolutely not matter how direct or kind or specific you are, they’ll do what they want. So, that leaves you to either 1. not invite them, or 2. let it be and enjoy your event!
Cat
ok to have a no gifts rule for something called a shower – when the name of the party is literally a reference to showering the person with gifts – is weird. If it’s meant to be no gifts, call it literally anything else.
Mouse
Ok, if we’re going to be pedantic about it – the event (shower) that I asked no gifts for was a tea party, so gifts were not the main activity of the event.
Anon
I truly mean no gifts, and find that people gift anyway. The charity option is the only way I’ve gotten people to mostly honor the no-gifts wishes.
Anon
If getting a gift bothers you this much I’d really hate to see how you react to a real problem. Yikes. The uncharitable takes on this are just mind blowing. Sometimes people just want to do something nice for the people they love. Accept that and be grateful that someone cares about you.
Anon
What’s caring is respecting a person’s wishes and boundaries, not ignoring them.
Anon
Nah the people who care about me know how to respect my wishes.
Just like how my loved ones whose love language is gift giving get physical gifts from me. Because doing something nice for someone you care about means doing something that they enjoy. Otherwise it’s about you.
Lydia
question about this suit… is this really properly tailored for the model? it looks too tight in the waist to me — but I don’t work in a suits everyday job, so maybe my eye is off?
amberwitch
Agree – too tight in the waist. Looks as if it is pinned back to give that dramatic silouette in the photos.
anon
It’s too small for her. You can see it pulling with a wrinkle on the right side.
Anonymous
The pants look too tight too
Senior Attorney
I can only imagine how tight it would be if she’d tried to squeese a blouse in there…
NYNY
Lol. But also, imagine how tight if she sat down!
anon
I can’t get over how low cut the vest is. I don’t think she can squeeze in a bra, either.
Anonymous
it’s very obvious she isn’t wearing a bra, no doubt for exactly that reason.
Anon
Or sit down!
Anon
The shoulders look like they fit & the sleeves look to be the right length and are the appropriate width for her arms. The rest is too snug and makes even this model look like she’s stuffed into a sausage casing. Bet that in the right size all around this would be gorgeous.
NYNY
Is the jacket oddly sized, or was it pinned in back to emphasize the waist?
Anon
My guess is both. They don’t show a back view on the jacket page, but I suspect it’s a combo of an exaggerated cut and giant spring clamps in the back, like they use at the bridal dress store for trying things on.
Anon
Yeah, that’s not real life.
Anonymous
it’s too small for her, but then, that’s the way it often works in the fashion industry. the bras don’t properly fit those models, either.
Anon
I see that the model, liked me, hopped into what was in her closet and found testimony for my mantra, comfort food is comforting. I bet this all fit her in 2019.
anon
HA! Same!
Anon
My thought exactly! This is not what “sharp tailoring” means.
Anon
Kim K in Marilyn’s dress
anon
Where can I find wool plus size suiting? Both of today’s options are polyester.
Anonymous
Talbots!
Anonymous
ETA – but not much. Sorry.
Anon
It’s so hard. I don’t know if J Crew Factory has wool suiting, but I did notice that they have a fairly inclusive size range.
Anon
Here’s a wool blend blazer
https://factory.jcrew.com/p/womens/categories/clothing/blazers/original-schoolboy-blazer/AZ565
They also have some wool blend “suiting” Pants and skirts, but just a few.
If you’re open to it, I’m also plus and have really liked the merino knit blazers from Talbots. I have several.
Anonymous
Lafayette 148
Anon
Do you follow CapHillStyle? She always identifies a plus size option.
Anon
Pendleton goes up to size 20 in some items.
Inferiority Complex?
I have a severe lack of confidence in my work and personal life. I am going to therapy, but I feel like I need some sort of intensive training on building confidence. Has anyone tried the Confidence Code workshop? Any other advice?
Anon
Any recommendations for a solid golf umbrella (not actually a golfer, just live in a rainy area and like the larger dimensions)?
Anonymous
Blunt makes high quality umbrellas – a bit pricey, but it holds up.
Anon
Apparently the royal British family uses Fulton umbrellas.
Anon
I feel like I could keep lists of controversial topics I find out about from here:
— household members pooling laundry or each man for himself
— street parking
What am I missing here?
Anon
Gifting at no-gift weddings, apparently. Or wanting/expecting cash only wedding gifts. Or really anything wedding related.
Anon
Is there anything wedding-related that is controversy-free?
anon
Ha fair point. I think this has become more fraught now that weddings are rarely an occasion where you can show up on time to the ceremony wearing a formality-appropriate outfit of your choosing and then sleep in your own bed afterward. When people have to get on a plane or pay for a hotel or buy an outfit for a hyper-specific dress code they’re more offended when part of the event doesn’t match their preferences. If you called an uber twenty minutes before the ceremony and can go home afterward who cares if the food is subpar and the venue was a little chilly? But I’m definitely more salty about a cash bar or dinner being served too late when I spent a lot of time and money to be there.
Anon
I recently went to a wedding that did heavy apps (sliders, dip, etc., not all that fancy). It was a twenty minute drive, no dress code except “look nice,” and… completely agree. We went out for late dinner after our who cares? It was fun.
Now, my sister’s destination wedding where I was her MOH and she made me get take out for the rehearsal dinner? (She didn’t want to pay for a vegetarian meal. Her wedding cost $45,000.) It is part of the reason I don’t talk to her any more.
Anon
@ 4:21 how dare you be a vegetarian at you sister’s wedding when SHE IS THE BRIDE??? /s
Vicky Austin
Or gift related. Or phrasing gift expectations or the lack thereof on invitations.
Sub-categories of this: bachelorette parties. “An invitation is not a summons.”
anonshmanon
yeah, the biggest controversy I have seen in this realm is whether to mention gift expectations at all.
There are also big feelings around asking people to take off shoes in your home.
Anon
Not sure if it has been raised here, but a controversial topic that I have seen elsewhere is whether people should get to wear shoes when visiting the home of people who don’t wear shoes in the home.
Seventh Sister
This is *the* “knives out” topic on my local message boards. I grew up in a “shoes OK” home (unless muddy or wet) and appreciate a head’s up from the hostess (or even better, paper slippers!) because my feet are ugly. This basically makes me a sociopath, or perhaps a psychopath. I’ve also learned I was definitely raised by the grossest of white trash because we wore shoes at home.
In my own home, we’re mostly shoes off/house shoes only but it’s not a hard and fast rule.
Anonymous
Same here! I appreciate the cleanliness of a shoe free home but I will have people track mud all over my house before I dare ask anyone to take their shoes off. I’ll be gracious if it kills me. I want people to feel welcomed and comfortable more than anything. I don’t mind taking my shoes off at someone else’s home, and will begin doing so cheerfully as a default because again, gracious if it kills me.
Anon
I have really strong feelings about this when the people who insist on shoes off also have dogs.
anon
We are a shoes off household and also have dogs. The dogs’ feet get wiped on the way in. That said, we are shoes OK for guests although most guests take their shoes off when they see ours are. Also fine if they don’t, not the hill I’m going to die on.
Anon
It’s more about the fur/getting stepped on by clawed feet for me.
Anonymous
Also there is controversy around whether it is disgusting to ever wear shoes in your home.
Senior Attorney
OMG that one will draw blood every time!
Anon
Shoes on/off questions of etiquette are so fascinating to me (a Canadian who would never dream of keeping my shoes on in someone’s home)
Anon
You forgot:
Enjoying a drink = alcoholism
Household chores aren’t 50/50 = DTMFA
Wanting to spend time with your family = codependency
Not wanting to spend time with your family = self-centered
We are a fickle bunch
Anon
The thing that rubs me the wrong way in some comment debates sometimes is the absolute black and whiteness people think in. But it’s probably that the people who view whatever issue through that lens are more compelled to comment on it.
Anonymous
Yes – people seem to have very little understanding that others situations might be different than their own. Or that if a poster says my situation is X, then we can trust that that is true. No need to give advice for Y or to tell them that actually their situation is Z
Vicky Austin
This bugs me, too. There was a thread not long ago about a husband who wanted running tights and the OP wanted help finding something that fit his specifications, presumably so it could be a holiday gift, and half the comments were “stop doing his emotional labor!!” Like yeah, sometimes that’s the answer, but generally we’re a savvy bunch and can be trusted to know what it is we need from the group. When the question asks for running tights, it’s not [usually] necessary to turn it into a marriage dynamics lecture.
Anonymous
That, and sometimes part of the gift is doing the legwork or the emotional labor and finding a good option!
Vicky Austin
Indeed – and since so often someone has a great answer/option at the ready from their own experiences, it’s not even guaranteed to be a chore.
Anon
That is my biggest pet peeve when I ask a question. We complain a lot about “mansplaining” but constantly do it to the other women on the list rather than trusting that an adult woman meant what she said and is capable of her own decisions.
Also, reading things into a question that was not stated, or worse yet are contradicted by what was said. I have asked some questions and the responses have been hilariously off base because of what people read into the situation.
Anonymous
I notice sometimes someone gives a take or advice that rings really true for life in general and a lot of us will agree because it resonates with us, forgetting that this hard won nugget of wisdom that we’re excited to amplify doesn’t fit the ops situation. It’s a half magic and half frustrating feature (bug?) of this format.
Anon
Or telling anyone concerned about their health that it’s all anxiety. That was a real trend for a while here and it drove me crazy.
Anon
I feel like this is a really fine line to walk.
About five years ago now, I asked for advice on a very specific interpersonal issue. The comments were all very kind, and some raised a flag and said, hey, consider that this is a larger problem with the people you are talking about.
They were right. They were more right than they imagine. I just.. had gotten so used to it that it didn’t strike me as problematic, and usually just powered through the “one off” problems. Except no, this was a deeply dysfunctional person who was simply not capable of treating me in a normal manner.
I try very hard to take commenters at their words. Often, people are worried about being outed if they describe too much. When it seems like someone might be missing a bigger issue, it is worth mentioning as a *possibility*.
Seventh Sister
As a GenX, it’s been interesting to me to learn how many people have Very Strong Views about alcohol being bad. It’s an attitude I first encountered from my mean old grandma, who was a teetotaler raised by teetotalers in the Great Depression. She would get obviously nervous and uncomfortable if anyone was drinking in her vicinity. It was a lot to watch, especially when she moved closer to my parents and would come for things like Christmas dinner.
Anonymous
+1
I’m from the north east and sometimes I feel like I’m encountering really different attitudes re: alcohol here than I’ve seen is real life. Most people I know have a few drinks each weekend and don’t see occasionally getting a bit tipsy at a wedding or party particularly problematic as long as you don’t drive. There’s definitely a different attitude here.
Anonymous
Good point about geography. I’m in NYC and early 30s so most of my friends are DINKS or single – only 1 friend has a kid so far. No one has a car (so no possibility of drunk driving). Everyone drinks more than the CDC recommends and thinks nothing of it.
Anonymous
Also the fact that we’re early 30s and practically no one has kids yet and half my friends aren’t married yet is totally normal here and would be bizarre elsewhere.
I think in my circles having a kid before 34 is equated with teen pregnancy; the thread a few weeks ago about the ideal age to have kids was fascinating to me.
Anon
I had my one and only kid at 38. It sucked and we constantly think about much easier this would be if we were younger. We are generally high energy, healthy people who work jobs with normal hours. Waiting for the sake of waiting is stupid, sorry not sorry.
Anon
I’m from the Bay Area, and Anthony Bourdain was not wrong when he described San Francisco as a “two fisted drinking town”
I don’t have any time for anyone who wants to say my ritual of a Friday night cocktail is problematic. My mom was an alcoholic. I know the difference.
Anon
PS here’s the full quote, which I love and identify with so much:
“Anyone who doesn’t have a great time in San Francisco is pretty much dead to me,” he says. “You go there as a snarky New Yorker thinking it’s politically correct, it’s crunchy granola, it’s vegetarian, and it surprises you every time. It’s a two-fisted drinking town, a carnivorous meat-eating town, it’s dirty and nasty and wonderful.”
Anonymous
Most people I know didn’t meet their partners until late 20s/early 30s so by the time they get married and have kids, they’re mid 30s. Several friends I know are mid 30s and single and would love to have kids but can’t. Other couples I know waited for financial and/or logistical reasons. For example, I know a few couples where both spouses are mid residency and are waiting until at least one if not both are done with residency to have kids. Other friends are waiting to finish grad/law/business school or until they can afford daycare, until a military enlistment is up, or to relocate near family before having kids.
None of us would have chosen to have kids in our 20s but I think everyone I know who is 33+ who wants kids who isn’t TTC right now is waiting for a pretty legitimate reason.
Seventh Sister
I just kind of wonder if all the millennials I know are judging me for having a cocktail at a work dinner (totally OK per workplace rules plus the senior people are the biggest drinkers). To a certain extent, I don’t really care, but I’m nosy. A
anon
I remember a pregnant poster commented that she misses having a glass of wine at parties and someone said that means she has a drinking problem.
Anonymous
Anything regarding weight loss or extended family, apparently
anon
Is my water bottle professional?
Aunt Jamesina
Anything related to diet or weight.
Anon
I feel like this is only controversial when the poster wants to put someone else on a diet.
Anonymous
Some posters have commented on posts where OP is asking about their own diet and complained about having diet posts here. There was a request maybe last year ri have a day with no diet posts that was very controversial.
Aunt Jamesina
Yeah, people have also accused commenters who want to change their diets or lose weight of being disordered. IF seems to get people’s hackles up particularly.
Anonymous
So many comments that wanting to lose weight or diet or exercise more is a sign of disordered eating or internalized diet culture or internalized fat shaming. Or that those who want to lose weight are obsessed. Or that if you’re a certain size you can’t desire to lose weight.
I’m a 5 ft 3 150 lb size 6/8. For my size, I’m overweight and thus I want to lose weight. Mentioned that once in a comment. Caught a lot of flack for stating that. Of course for many people a size 6 is not overweight. For me it is!
Anonymous
Some of the advice has been disordered. And it’s not all that unusual for normal dieting to go that route. “The National Eating Disorders Association reports that 35% of “normal dieters” progress to pathological dieting and that 20-25% of those individuals develop eating disorders.’ That’s a lot of folks, so it’s not surprising it crops up.
Anonymous
Agree. I think it’s upsetting when someone wants to let someone else know they are fat or overweight.
Anne-on
I’ll poke the bear – how much childcare people can reasonably expect from their parents once they have children.
Anon
Ooooh — do people really expect this? I come from a family where I would expect cards on their birthdays but never FT consistent child care over years and years.
Anon
I absolutely know people who expected it. As someone who didn’t have the luxury of any relatives nearby, I was envious!
Anonymous
Any expectation of having to spend time with in laws or extended family
Anon
+1
nuqotw
I don’t think I’ve seen it come up here but it is definitely controversial: the proper way to do the dishes in general and load a dishwasher in particular. I have never met anyone (including myself) who did not think they were the Champion Dishwasher Loader of all humanity past, present, and future. A colleague once quipped to me that he and his wife solved the problem by having their teenage children do the dishes. :)
Spouse does not like the way I load the dishwasher, to the point that he will unload and reload it when I’m not looking. I think I do it better but I also don’t care enough to reload anything so I only load the dishwasher if it’s going to be full and I can start it immediately. As a result, I definitely do fewer dishes than he does. This controversy will be a source of marital humor as long as we both shall live.
pugsnbourbon
No one can load a dishwasher to my father’s standards. About five years ago my mother told him she would no longer touch the dishwasher – and she hasn’t. Peace reigns.
Anon
Oh I have no rhyme or reason on dishwasher loading. I don’t have the mental energy to care lol
Vicky Austin
Same. Husband cares, so he does it. I only wish there were a similar solution for our squabbles about my leaving lights on in rooms I’m coming right back to, short of me going around with a headlamp on all the time.
Vicky Austin
oops – meant for this to be in reply to pugs above.
Anonymous
i’ve met only one person in real life who dies on the hill that is how to wash dishes. i’m very much team everyone has their own way and as long as the dishes are washed it’s all good.
i’ve also never owned a dishwaher so would never qualify for champion dishwasher loader status, haha (i have too many not-dishwasher-safe items and i’m an odd duck that actually enjoys washing dishes by hand)
Anon
Your husband and my husband will see each other at the Finals round of the Dishwasher Loading Championship.
I still load my dishes in the dishwasher but it’s more of a kind gesture than it is effective, because I absolutely 100% know he’s going to unload them and re-load them. I also get a bonus lecture if he’s feeling cranky.
anon
Funny story: My friend had been living with her boyfriend for a couple weeks. She noticed the utensils in the drying rack still had food on them so she asked her BF to make sure he washes them more thoroughly. Well apprently he thought you lightly rinse the dishes without soap, place them in the drying rack for a pit stop, then eventually move them into the dishwasher when you have time. She had been eating off of dirty forks for weeks! Some people have very different ideas about dishwashing SOP.
Anon
Last name changes.
Use of services like Amazon.
Owning a car in the city, or living somewhere that requires a car.
Expectations around gardening.
Vicky Austin
Small, but related: not calling it Amazon. For some reason that ruffles feathers.
Cat
I think that started when some words in the comments would link externally – since it felt weird to have a link pop up in a user-drafted comment, people started using workarounds.
Anon
Your comment about cars reminded me of one: advice being tailored to a situation that does not at all apply to the OP but then calling the OP defensive when they then explain their situation. And then even after the explanation, most of the advice doesn’t apply.
A few years ago, probably pre-pandemic, I asked for advice on carrying gym clothes to work. I got a lot of suggestions saying to leave my gym bag in my car. I explained I live and work downtown, have a 30 min walking commute and don’t own a car. Explaining that went over like a lead balloon.
Aunt Jamesina
Did you try leaving your gym clothes in the car though?
Anon
Exactly. Someone must have a car you can leave them in. Be imaginative!
Anon
Re: last name changes. I’m a Smith married to a Jones and our kids are Jones’. Not only do I not care if others refer to us as the Jones family, but I refer to us as the Jones family. It’s just easier. I don’t feel like it’s done at me or that calling us the Jones’ erases my Smith identity.
From previous discussions on this board, I think I”m the only one with a family named like mine who doesn’t care if I get called Jones or if we’re the Jones family
If I had to do it again, I think I’d be Smith-Jones and the rest would still be Jones, but for whatever reason that didn’t occur to me at the time.
Anonymous
I have the same situation but my last name is smithenstienbergmcnovowells and I’m not making it longer. I write both names on our correspondence like we’re a lawfirm (Kennedy and bouvier) but otherwise I do not care. I won’t introduce myself with my husband’s name but I won’t correctly people unless it matters for some purpose.
Anon
The issue is, though, when you decide that what works for you is exactly what everyone else should do.
Anon
I didn’t change my name either and go with the Jones family because it’s easier too. And we don’t even have kids. I don’t care. I’m Smith at work, email, everyone knows I’m still Smith but I have bigger fish to fry.
Anon
The concept that there are people on this board, let alone in this world, who don’t have high incomes and thus have different experiences, budgets, flexibility than others here.
I have posted about looking for a product under a certain price point and have gotten responses saying that’s impossible or I’ll only get crap quality or how could that possibly be my budget. Anytime someone reports being tired or overwhelmed they’re recommended to outsource. This mornings poster working with at-risk kids being concerned about kids who are on the free lunch program during remote school but got blamed for being anti teacher.
Anon
Okay, but then there are people who leave out a lot of detail and then get mad that nobody could read their mind.
PolyD
I’m probably too late, but this is fun!
Slips are terrible old-fashioned garments that no one should wear. But also, how do I keep my skirt from sticking to my tights?
Anonymous
I was once told to “go jump in a lake” by someone on this board because I was concerned about the fact that a friend, who lives alone with no family or friends nearby, did not own a thermometer or any home care stuff for illness. He thought he had a high fever, this was during the COVID delta surge and pre- vaccine/at-home testing, and I was just worried about him. I haven’t seen “go jump in a lake” responses lately; maybe that person has moved on.
Anon
There were a lot of people very, very angry that any of us thought COVID existed, which morphed into ok it exists but it’s just a cold. Still. Head in the sand fox news viewing types, I imagine.
Anon
People wanting to reap the benefits of community without putting the world in to build or uphold community
Anon
Covid. The Covid forever crowd will not let you forget it’s still the “middle” of a pandemic.
Anon for this
Hah. Before a long holiday weekend, I made a post saying something like ‘hey, if you’re staying with family at a multigenerational beach house stay, it’d be really cool if you wanted to take a kid for an ice cream cone or let parents have a cup of coffee without chasing toddlers’.
The origin of this was that a friend had told me that her (childless) younger brother had taken one of her kids to a coffee shop, just bought them a hot chocolate or something and her kid had officially pronounced their uncle the coolest person ever and uncle had loved it too. I don’t have that – my sister acts like a child is a fungus who also doesn’t have ears and understand that they could be offended or upset when she says mean things about them in front of them – and was just throwing out how it is just such an awesome thing to do for the kids… and a lot of people don’t realize their niblings will talk about them like they are literally Rock Stars who just treated the kids to the experience of a lifetime based on a 30 minute interaction.
HOLY COW. It turned 100% into ‘Your crotch goblins ruin my vacations you entitled a-hole’. I did not mean to stir the pot and – don’t worry – My sister has flat out told me that she would never go on a vacation with kids because ‘I wouldn’t waste my time off like that’ so I would never expect her to spend time with my kids, who absolutely adore her and are now old enough to ask me why she will never come to anything they invite her to (she lives less than 5 miles away).
anon
Ideas for an easy Christmas Eve lunch for 5? This is something I’ll need to transport to my MIL’s house. Like the above poster, we’ve done the snack thing the last few years, and it is NOT ENOUGH FOOD to get through the afternoon and a church service without being semi-miserable. Soup and sandwiches, maybe? Lasagna, as suggested above? I’d prefer something I can prep in advance.
Anon
Pastisio > lasagna, if you go that route.
Stick to the ribs stuff like chili or stew, with cornbread or biscuits.
Anon
Okay, I had never heard of pastisio until now and I am so intrigued! Do you recommend it over lasagna because it tastes better or because it’s better for this scenario involving transport, reheating, etc.
KS IT Chick
I love and have made both, but lasagna can feel like something you can make on a regular basis. Pastitsio feels more special.
anon
I’ll admit that I’d never heard of this until now, but in looking at pictures and ingredient lists, it seems kind of the same? Just with different noodles?
Anon
The spices are different and more interesting, there’s much less tomato in the version I make, and the white layer on top is to die for. I am not hung up on only using greek bucatini. It’s all about the flavor profile for me.
Aunt Jamesina
Ina Garten’s recipe for it is great!
nuqotw
I never knew this dish had a name!! We started serving baked pasta = lasagna made with “normal” noodles because our kids have some sort of aversion to lasagna noodles. (Of course, they got wise and now refuse baked pasta. I’m going to call it pastisio and see if I get one more night out of it.)
Anon
That sounds like baked ziti, which is delicious, but it’s not pastisio without the middle eastern influenced spices and the bechamel/cheese topping.
nuqotw
Oops; I googled and looked at pictures but didn’t read the recipes. We don’t have that flavor profile in the house because of a sesame allergy. :(
Anonymous
I’d do sandwiches. Either pickup a hoagie tray or just get lunch meat, cheese, rolls and let people make sandwiches. My aunt always does this for our Easter mini gathering.
Other ideas: chili, quiche, lasagne or baked ziti.
Anne-on
You just reminded me that my mom’s southern family often does a baked ham with mini rolls (or biscuits)/mustard/cornichons for Christmas gatherings. I haven’t had that in years but it is yummy!
Anon
haah Californian here, but my dad was from the south. I still 100% do this.
My jewish friends always have a bagel spread with smoked salmon, onions, capers, and all kinds of schmears. Outside of Christmas, I usually just copy them. I know the joke is that Angelenos are so afraid of gluten you could rob a liquor store with a bagel (credit: Ryan Renyolds) but fortunately I’m in the bay area, and so far, every last guest has been an enthusiastic bagel-eater.
Annie Nominous
A honey-baked spiral cut ham wins the day in our family.
Anne-on
I’ve made soups for thanksgiving lunch to bridge the gap between people showing up at noon and dinner being at 4. If your evening meal will similarly be big/heavy I would probably do something like a bean soup/sausage lentil soup, green salad, and a heat in the oven garlic bread.
Anonymous
Tamales!
NYNY
Love! <3 <3 <3
Anonymous
Lasagna for sure! Salad on the side of its too heavy for someone.
Anon
Smoked salmon platter with all the fixings is great for grazing, and filling enough for a meal.
Anon
Does anyone have a recent-vintage car that they love? I live a car-required life and for once have time to contemplate the replacement for my aging car. I adored my prior cars but this one was a rush purchase where I had to compromise on what I wanted to avoid waiting even longer (history seems to be repeating a bit). I just want to feel like I’m 17 and my heart skips a beat b/c I love my vinyl seat air-cooled (which I thought referred to having to crank down the windows) VW with no radio that dang much. I look around and watch reviews on YouTube and all I feel is meh.
Anon
Wait. Did it have the metal, matching paint insert where the radio might have gone, like my old Beetle did? Are we car sisters?
Anon
I had a squareback (type III, looks like an old boxy volvo), a rabbit, and a jetta. Never anything as cool as a beetle. One was a diesel that could not go up hills except in second, even if you were on the interstate. Those things were tanks and you could easily get 20 years per car (but were on a first-name basis with the mechanic in the final 5 years).
NYNY
I drove my grandfather’s ’73 beetle in high school, and I loved that car! It did have a radio (AM only), so it was fancy!
Anon
I’m not really a car person but I’ve been really happy with my Honda Accord Hybrid. Great mileage, the trunk is enormous for a sedan, the backseat is roomy, and it has a great turning radius and is easy to park.
Aunt Jamesina
Those are great cars, but someone who wants their heart to skip a beat is probably not going to be excited about an Accord :-)
I drive a plug in BMW i3 and it’s probably the most ridiculous-looking cars out there, but I love its quirkiness so much.
Anon @ 2:57
Ha! You’re right, when I was tempted to start my sentence with “I’m not really car person but” I should have known to keep scrolling instead of commenting!
(It is a great car though. I wish we could get a plug in, but we park on the street, and almost never in front of our house!)
Anon
dont get us started on that again!
Anon
Yeah I love my friend’s Sonata, but no car has ever made my heart skip a beat before!
Seventh Sister
I have a Lexus crossover and I really love it.
Anonymous
You need a MINI of some sort. Practical to get around and all the new fun stuff and tons of accessories to personalize but still has the vintage spirit (basic bones haven’t changed) and EVERYBODY asks you about it. I like it so much that I’ve owned 2. Fun fact: I could fit any stroller in my dinky original but not the Cooper Clubman (it’s a height thing so need one that collapses just right). Love, love, love my car. (And get a fun color, too!)
Anon
I love my Volvo station wagon, not because it’s quirky or cute, but because it’s head to toe luxury, fits everything I need it to fit (including my english bulldog) and I feel like a very elegant lady of means driving it. I also like that it’s not an SUV because it’s easier to park and uses less gas. I also personally like being a little lower to the ground.
Chl
My dream has always been to have a Volvo station wagon!
Anon
I cannot talk you out of it. It’s wonderful. Mine is 8 years old with >100,000 miles and I still love it as much as the day I got it.
Anon
They are amazing cars.
Sallyanne
I loved my Volvo wagon. It was the greatest. We sold it when we moved to the city and now when I see one I feel nostalgic but also wonder how in the heck someone parallel parks it. Been very happy with my Audi Q3 (and just opposite, I like be8ng higher up).
DC Inhouse Counsel
I used to lease a 2018 Mini Cooper Countryman in British Racing Green. We are carless now, but I felt so cute driving that car!
Anon
Another Volvo vote. I love my XC40. You can sit up a little higher but also park in tiny spaces. Plus the interior feels great and luxurious. I am ridiculously grateful for the heated steering wheel.
Sallyanne
The XC40 is on my list for when my Audi Q3 is finished!
Senior Attorney
Hubby has a Jaguar F-type and it was stupidly expensive but man is it a sweet ride!
Senior Attorney
British racing green, of course.
Anon
My husband will be jealous to hear of both the Jaguar and the british racing green, the latter being a phrase I hear a lot in my house.
Digby
VW GTI Sport with the classic plaid seats (love the plaid seats). Handles so well, fast when you want to go fast, and pretty practical if you need to haul some stuff.
DB Cooper
My friend adores her Dodge Charger, sport package. Hemi is an option but not needed. All the early twenties guys bringing out the grocery pick up orders fawn over it.
Anon
I had a vest-shirt back when I started practicing. I saw Jill Hennessey’s character wearing a similar one on L&O and was all “I have arrived!”. LOL no.
Home Reno
Has anyone done a major renovation on their home (for context, addition with kitchen and family room plus a 2 stall garage)? How much did you spend total and how did the cost compare to what your contractor had estimated? Was it worth it in the end?
Anonymous
I didn’t add any footage but spent about 200k on a whole house renovation in the New York suburbs. Cost was about what my contractor quoted plus 25 percent. worth it because I love living here and we bought with an intention to renovate. Real Estate market is weird but I plan to sell in 2 years and I suspect we’ll make money on it. The house is at the lower price end for a really pricey school district and my real estate agent said there is plenty of market for a renovated house like this.
Anon
Smaller projects but…
Kitchen – $50k
Finishing basement – $65k
Both came in at exactly what our contractor quotes. He’s really good that way.
Anonymous
Total house gut renovation, $1.4 million. Still in the middle of it and seriously wishing I’d just taken that money and done something or anything else with it.
Anonymous
Yes. We did a major renovation in 2018/2919. We finished Nov 2019. New overview 3 car garage, 300sq ft mudroom with staircase to connect garage to house, completely fit and finish 1800 sq fT basement (former garage) with full bath, completely move/redo driveway, add patio, re landscape over former driveway.
It was about $320k in New England, pre COVID. Our home was worth about $600 going in and now $1.2; a lot of that growth is the crazy market but the reno put our home in line with homes going for $1.5+ in our market.
Would I do again? No. I would have preferred to move. I also WFH during all of the construction and hate these decision making involved. Would husband do it again? Yes. Did the reno totally transform our home? Yes. We now have 1800sq ft of space we didn’t use before that opens up to a beautiful now level yard and we have a massive garage.
Anonymous
We redid our kitchen in our old apartment – kitchen was maybe 300 sf? New appliances, cabinets, and floors = $21K.
We finished our basement (about 1800 sf) – vinyl flooring, walls, doors, outlets, lighting. $25K.
A friend is in the midst of a major renovation to her smallish house – 2500 square feet – and I think she’s well over the $100K mark already. New windows, new kitchen. Before this project (not included in the $100K) they redid landscaping and the roof I think. Keep in mind this is a house that will likely sell for $400K total so I think they’ve totally overimproved it and should have just moved. I assumed it was because they loved the schools but nope, they don’t love that either.
Anon
This varies so much by region and economic cycle.
My general rule is – get quotes, double the money, double the time, and you’ll be close. If a contractor wants to know your budget, halve it.
Anonymous
+1
OP
Oh totally; I realize that it’s regional and time specific and definitely would not expect it to be the same as what someone says here. I was just curious generally to hear.
Anon for this
Yes, just finished a complicated reno – not a total gut but close. Original quote was about $250K and ended up at $300K after we needed some additional structural work for a roof deck. 1000% worth it.
anon
It depends if “worth it” means your own enjoyment of the home or the increase in resale value. Adding an extra room and garage will help your resale value no matter when you sell it. Updating your kitchen may not change the value if you don’t sell for another 15 years. By then the finishes will likely be dated. That being said, if something makes your home more functional for how you live your life then do it!
OP
I just meant generally worth it, like would you do it again!
Anon for this
I’m the $250K project above. For us, we’re planning to be in our home (a city rowhouse) for at least another 20-30 years, so even if we didn’t immediately realize a resale value, it was worth it to us to live in a home we adore. However, we bought about a decade ago and similar homes in our area are currently selling for about $300K more than we paid, so from an equity perspective, we did just fine.
Anonymous
we’re in the middle of doing one! HCOL (portland) city – kitchen + powder room that required structural changes (moving a wall) in this part quarter when inflation has been going haywire. it’s going to end up being 240k. We definitely didn’t time it well but how can you? We started the design process Jan of this year, and it just has taken this long to line up folks who were able to do the job and they got started Sep. Other than the expense, which I am thankful we can afford with a HELOC + savings from the last 10 years, I’m really excited about it as I was miserable in our prev 1-butt kitchen and I cook almost all my meals.
Sallyanne
Will be starting one January 2023. PNW city, quote 130k, 20k in design fees, 30k appliances for a townhouse main floor (kitchen, bath, living, dining)- no moving walls or plumbing. We are moving out into a studio apartment at 3k a month. That will probably be the worst thing so hopefully in 3 months even if project isn’t “finished” we can move back in. We started design 10/21, ordered appliances 1/22 (still not all in). Will it be worth it? I sure hope so!
Anon
We did a larger addition that included a kitchen, powder room, mudroom and upstairs bedroom and full bathroom. It was about $240k just before Covid hit. Totally worth it, though it will take a while for your house’s value to catch up with what you spent. Luckily the Covid market caught us up pretty quickly. We were not seriously over budget or anything. Get a detailed estimate and obviously know that things like cabinet or appliance choices matter.
Anonymous
We did what felt like a big renovation of our apartment, although not like what you are talking about. Approx. 80K to update the kitchen, 2 bathrooms (bathrooms down to the studs), built walk in closet, enclosed a den, built shelves in one room, refinish or replace all flooring, new baseboards, paint everything, all new light fixtures, etc. I think our original budget was 35K but the scope increased dramatically – originally there were no bathrooms. Actually the first bathroom got added because the contractor misunderstood my husband and tore down a wall we meant to keep. This was not the most professional renovation – it was one guy in deep Brooklyn. He did a good job and was relatively inexpensive but was slow as he was really working alone a lot of the time. No permits were pulled to save time/money. My husband also did a lot of the work himself. It took about 2x as long as expected for the major work, and my husband was finishing up bits and pieces for months. It was 100% worth it–it is so, so much nicer than it was–but it was excruciating at the time because we were spending money we really didn’t have and had to live in a work zone for a lot of it because we couldn’t afford renting a second place. We financed it on 0% interest credit cards and paid them off before the introductory offers expired. So we made it stressful on ourselves. My husband is also a structural engineer, so was able to predict pain points, and generally had pretty realistic expectations. In hindsight, I am really glad we did the bathrooms instead of waiting a couple of years until we had the money to do them – it was better to do it all at once and get it over with.
Anonymous
PS – it was definitely worth it financially but we live in a neighborhood in NYC that has not decreased in value substantially in over 20 years; it’s not a typical market. I think this is true of most moderately priced NYC real estate; luxury buildings are more volatile.
Anonymous
PPS – we only bought 1 new appliance and didn’t pay anyone to design anything. The walls we built are just partitions, not structural, and we didn’t try to do anything complicated like moving plumbing or load-bearing walls.
Anon
Mini survey: are you expected to work on vacation? Always/sometimes/never? I’ve been in my government job for 7 years. We have generous PTO (6 weeks vacation) and I use all of it. For years I had a great manager who would not so much as send me an email on vacation. In the last couple of years things have been reshuffled and I’m on a team with a leader who is a total workaholic and expects the same of his staff. My direct boss is more reasonable in general but just emailed me asking if I could do something by Friday even though I’m on vacation this week. It’s a pretty substantive thing, probably 5-10 hours of work. Before this I was in a much more demanding job where you could never actually unplug on vacation, but I was also highly compensated. I took a huge paycut for this job and thought I was getting my work life balance back, including not being expected to do substantive work on vacation. Also if I’m going to work on vacation, I damn well want one of my days of PTO back, which didn’t seem like it was being offered. Curious how common this is in jobs that generally have sane work-life balance (ie not big law).
Anon
Always. I think I am expected to take vacation I actually want to take when nothing is going on. I can be OOO on critical days only if I am basically working FT remotely.
FWIW, I had junior employees on maternity/paternity leave and left them alone. Not sure they’d have been in any position to turn out good work, so IDK why other people sent them work (but know that at least one, a guy, was routinely sent work like he hadn’t been up all night with a spouse who had had a c-section and tending to a baby; offender was likely a guy but IDK for sure).
Anon
I have been in jobs where it was expected to work a lot (mid law) and some where a little work was expected— maybe 2-3 hours over the whole week. I recently accepted a job where NO work is expected over vacation (very rare for lawyers!) It’s a government job.
I would not be okay with the request to do 10 hours of work and be expected to use PTO for those hours. The point of vacation is to unplug!
Anon
Well, my first thought was absolutely not. But I’m not sure what your job is….. Because the more I thought about it, there are some instances I would help.
I’m in medicine / medical research. If I was involved in a research group and we were suddenly about to get scooped and had to get my Data into a paper or I wouldn’t be able to publish, oh yes I would jump in and help. If I was doing telemedicine, and a colleague just had a medical emergency (which never happens but one did have a baby actively being born so I jumped in to cover), or a colleague needs my input for very urgent cancer treatment care or even less urgent but important to the patient care, then I absolutely would help if I could.
But if this is just routine stuff, I would push back.
Anon
I work for a large consulting firm but I’m lower on the totem pole so never. I didn’t bring my work phone recently on an international trip. They have it covered in my absence. Unless you’re a partner, the world will keep on spinning.
Anon
Career prosecutor here. I’m never expected to do routine work while on vacation, but I always stay in pocket and deal with emergency issues on my cases if they arise. Usually it’s just making sure that the person who is covering for me has enough background information to act on my behalf. This is usually fairly quick. I do work with victims directly so I have had times when a victim calls while I’m on vacation and I spend substantial time with them on the phone, but I don’t strictly *have* to.
I would tell your boss that you are on vacation and you can work on it when you are back.
Anon
Another career prosecutor. For vacation I am expected to get my dockets covered by coworkers, prep said dockets for the coworkers, have the week or two after I return fully prepped prior to departure, and be available as needed via text, email, and phone call to my office and to law enforcement. I normally handle one to two contacts per day while on vacation.
Aunt Jamesina
If you boss asked if you could do it, I would take it acknowledgement that you don’t have to do it right now and just let them know when you’ll be back and able to do the task. Obviously you know the dynamics of your workplace best, but I feel like a boss that is asking if you can is letting you know that they understand you don’t have to do it. I hate workaholics that try to drag others into their bad work habits.
Anonymous
Absolutely never. I’m staff counsel at an insurance company with a really large office in a volume practice. People would let the whole place burn down without interrupting someone’s vacation. I imagine I make a lot less than most people on this board.
Nope
I’m in federal govt and we are not supposed to work when on leave. If there were an actual emergency or I felt like I should do the job, I’d re-submit paperwork to reflect accurately what hours I worked and what time I was off.
Anonymous
“No, I’m not available to do that since I am on vacation.”
There’s no magic fairy coming to set boundaries for you.
Liza
Nope! I am in house and relatively senior, but I just set my OOO and don’t check email for a week. I’m in a transactional/counseling practice, so nothing is ever THAT urgent, and if it is, my fantastic team members can cover it.
Anon
I am a mid-level associate in Biglaw. I generally do a half hour of email cleanup a day while on vacation, and field emergency questions from clients, but otherwise unplug. I would push back if I were in your position. Even if it is a true emergency, someone else should be able to step in.
Vicky Austin
Could it be that Direct Boss is under pressure from Workaholic Leader to bug you about this?
Anon
Yes i think so, but it’s still annoying to me since my previous boss would not have bended to that kind of pressure.
Vicky Austin
Totally get that. Sounds like a great opportunity to be like, “I am on vacation. If this really can’t wait until I get back, then I will be logging a normal day today and expect 8 hours of PTO to be restored to my balance.”
Anonymous
I’d get some of your PTO back at least. I’ve been in this situation a couple of times and just asked my manager about changing my time card to reflect the hours worked, and it was fine.
Anon
In-house lobbyist at a Fortune 100. Generally, vacation time is respected unless it’s an urgent question and only I know the political context. These are rare and handled as quickly as possible. If something more is expected during vacation, like virtual attendance at a 4 hour meeting, that PTO is reclaimed, whether it’s offered or not. I send a email to our admin and note that I will credit back a half-day for time spent working.
Parental leave is always respected.
anon
I do project management in a govt research institute. Outside of super busy times (not more than 3 months/year and usually known in advance), I can fully unplug for probably a week. My supervisor has my back 100%. I am in a role serving internal clients, but my supervisor is separate from that, which makes for healthier power dynamics.
Lately, I have been willing to interrupt my vacation to take a high level meeting here and there, if scheduling is such that it would delay things otherwise, or to put out fires. This counts as time worked and I see it as a way to stretch my vacation into 2-3 weeks while keeping projects moving that I care about.
KS IT Chick
Old job: lip service to not working. In reality, if my cell phone had service, I was expected to answer. It became a game for me to find places where I didn’t have service. Or could reasonably say I didn’t, anyway.
Current job: never. Do not work on time off. Uninstall apps from your phone if necessary, but no one person is indispensable. If you’re that necessary, we need to get backup for you.
Cat
In-house counsel- sometimes but I also set different expectations for different types of OOO. So like, weeklong visit with in-laws? I have no issue being online for half days. 10 day trip overseas? I am checking email mornings & evenings to keep things moving as needed, but not heavy lifting or calls.
Anonymous
I never work on vacation, I’m the person who works on UN conventions. All my work has pre defined deadlines for submissions, negotiations, meetings etc any ’emergency’ would be someone else’s lack of planning, so not my problem.
anon
Rarely. If someone on my team takes more than a day or two for a long weekend we hold a quick check-in before they leave. We run through the status of their tasks, expected questions or requests from the client, and where to find relevant documents. That’s usually sufficient to get us through their PTO without bugging them. We avoid reaching out to someone unless there’s a high priority, time sensitive question we can’t answer on our own. Even then the on-duty person relays the response to the client so the client doesn’t email PTO Person follow-up questions. I can’t recall someone being assigned a task they’re expected to work on while OOO.
anon
Currently big law. Overall, expectation is minimal work on “vacation” but some availability to work to “trips”. Trips are more of the extended long weekend, not completely unplugged, whereas vacations are the proper taking a week off, doing touristy things, etc.
Anon
Sole proprietor. Vacation doesn’t really exist. Some days are slow and I take it easy – a staycation if you will – and some days I can’t do anything but work. We do take a vacation away somewhere once a year and I try to plan my work so it doesn’t interfere too much, and I plan the vacation at what I expect to be a slow time. That said, if work comes up, work is how I pay for vacations, and I get it done regardless of where I am.
anon
I’m a lawyer but in a smaller, work/life balance firm. Working in the evenings and on weekends is very rare for me. For vacation, I let people know what I’m doing ahead of time and set expectations from there. A week at Disney World with my family, I’m probably not going to do much besides checking email on my phone and forwarding anything urgent as needed. A week at the beach where my family goes for a week once a year, I’m happy to work a few hours in the mornings before my family is ready to go out to the beach.
anon
Oh, my boss gives me extra vacation days when I run out (no roll-over though). If my employer were holding me to the PTO policy, I’d definitely either not work during vacation or would insist that any days worked were not counted as PTO.
Anon
Are you really expected to check email on vacation? Respond when you return and ask if it still needs to be done.
Anon
This. I can’t remember the last time I checked email on a vacation. I’m higher ed staff.
A
If you have to work, then take that day off later.
NYC recs?
Any NYC recs for people that have seen the Tier 1-2 tourist stuff but not the Tier 3-4 tourist stuff? eg. I’ve been to Top of the Rock but haven’t walked around Williamsburg.
Anonymous
Tenement Museum, Katz’s Deli, the Museum of New York, so much theater, a walking tour. One of my favorite things to do is research food in advance and then do a walking-and-eating tour of Chinatown, Nolita, or wherever.
Anne-on
FYI that the Tenement museum does timed tickets and only a certain amount per day. I tried to do it during a work trip in October and they were totally sold out that day. Instead I went to the Strand, walked down to Soho, browsed (and shopped) in Nolita and then took myself to whichever restaurant looked most interesting.
Ex NYC
If you post a way to send it to you, I will email you/text you my running list for NYC. It is tiers 3-17. I keep it on my phone and add to it whenever I read/see/hear about something for our next trip.
Anonymous
Ooh, not the OP but I’d be interested. ette travel at outlook
Ex NYC
Just sent to you
NYNY
Non-Broadway performances are a great place to start. I would see anything playing at the Park Avenue Armory or BAM. For dance, look at the Joyce Theater, Lincoln Center, or City Center. Plays often run at the Public Theater long before they get big – Hamilton started there, for example. And Joe’s Pub has comedy & cabaret performances. I haven’t been to anything at The Shed yet, but would love to go sometime.
It’s also great to get out to the other boroughs. I love the Brooklyn Museum, and there are good shops and restaurants in the neighborhood, so you can easily make a day of it. PS1 or the Museum of the Moving Image are in Manhattan-adjacent Queens. If you feel more adventurous, further out in Queens you can find amazing food from all over the world. I think of the Bronx as a summer destination: the botanic garden, Yankee Stadium, and Wave Hill are all worth a visit. (I got nothing for Staten Island, though.)
Anonymous
You can get tickets to most Broadway plays for a song right now – they are really struggling, which is a shame as there is some amazing work out there. If you go to the Brooklyn Musuem, Lightscape at Brooklyn Botanic Garden is a worthy winter destination. I also love the Central Park and Bronx zoos. Brooklyn zoo is great for small kids (it is small). Coney Island is also a great summer destination, and the aquarium is decent year round. It is small though.
Re: Staten Island -the ferry is fun and free! Beyond that, the SI children’s museum is actually a lot nicer than the one in Brooklyn, and the SI museum has some interesting temporary exhibits. Alice Austen House has great views and some quirky photo exhibits – best if the weather is good. But all of this is a PITA without a car.
Anon
Brooklyn Bridge park is wonderful.
Anonymous
I’m having a day where I just want to curl up with a book on the couch. Fighting fighting fighting…
anon
Married folks — How do you and your partner make career decisions together? What I mean by that is that if your life and finances are intertwined, it’s very hard to make a unilateral decision that will impact the whole family. I am very unhappy in my current management role. I’ve learned that it’s too much of things I don’t enjoy doing, with the things I do enjoy getting pushed to the margins. I would love to ask for a move back into a more individual role, assuming my boss would go for that. For reasons of benefits, I would prefer to not leave my organization altogether. This would undoubtedly come with a pay decrease (trust me on this). Our household finances can handle it, but I know it would put more pressure on DH. He also doesn’t fully understand why I’d want to quit something I’m doing a good job at, nor does he understand why I’m stressed out from work all the time. In general, he’s a very supportive guy and cares greatly about my happiness, but definitely has the mindset of stepping back = questionable choice / career killer. If I said that I wanted to start a side hustle on top of my current gig (please no), he’d be all over it. How do I get him to take my wish to step back more seriously? I feel like I know what I need to do for my own mental health, but it’s like he thinks this is a passing phase that I’ll regret later.
Anon
Hmm, I’ve been the partner in your husband’s shoes. My husband unilaterally decided he wanted to max out at individual contributor and not move into any layer of management. It did put a lot of pressure on me to be the breadwinner. We made it through but I really think I should have had more input. “We are fine, we have enough money,” is very easy to say when you’re not the one primarily responsible for earning the money.
How it made me feel was that my husband felt like it was OK to coast and let me be the stressed out one. It did feel unfair to me, and still does, in hindsight. Never assume your partner loves every aspect of their job, I guess.
anon
I can see your point. Does it change the equation at all when the lower earner is in a lower paying field? The unfortunate reality is that while I’m working hard, I don’t have the same earning potential as my husband. I would be extremely hurt if he held that against me when he knows that I’m not slacking in any way.
Cat
oh, this is tough. Many of us go through the same thing when going from Biglaw to in house – but in my case, DH was delighted he’d get to see more of me rather than bummed we’d be closer to equal-earning. How big of a pay drop are we talking?
Mouse
Obviously I don’t know you two personally, but based on this, if sounds like it might help for you to communicate this change as a way to achieve your goals – independent of your job role. Maybe that goal is a more balanced life, a happier life (which you say he values) which would include stepping back from a managerial role. As far as putting pressure on him, if it’s not a drastic change in income and you’re including him in the decision-making (which it sounds like it’s not) I’ve of the opinion that in a marriage each person is able to contribute in different ways over the course of the time you’re together (because of heath, ability, etc.) and it’s ok if things change over time.
Anon
But that can be a dealbreaker for the other party, and that’s not unexpected. “You do the hard work, honey, it stresses me out too much” is a good path to a divorce.
Cat
This is why I asked about the actual change in $ above. A step back from manager to top IC could be a, say, $50K difference on a joint income of $500K, or it could be a $100K difference on a current joint income of $350K, depending on relative contributions to gross HHI now. Either way is still objectively comfortable, but the lifestyle difference is more dramatic with one than the other…
Anon
Hmm. I’m less ambitious than many here but if I had a job that was impacting my mental health and my spouse didn’t support me taking a step back I would be very hurt.
I also think many people here are misusing “breadwinner.” Unless you’re quitting your job or taking a paycut to such a low salary that your spouse is alone supporting the family, you’re not leaving your spouse the sole breadwinner. A pay cut from $300k to $100k is huge, but you’re not making your spouse the breadwinner because your salary can still support a family (certainly 2 x your salary can).
Anon
We are on our 3rd home and we make sure we can pay the mortgage with one salary. Hubby was laid off after 9/11 and I supported him with a State gig and insurance through the start of his business. He now works for a large corporation with insurance and good salary so I started my own firm. As for stepping back, I took a pay cut to leave a terrible job and it was a great decision.
Anon
This depends so much on what the pay decrease would look like relative to your current pay and how much it affects your HHI. It also depends on things like kids (how many? what is the plan for college and extracurriculars and all that?), mortgage (can it be paid on one salary?), his career stability, and what would happen to your career trajectory. Are you able to be stably employed in this hypothetical IC role, or will it be harder to find jobs? How stable is his job and income?
Finally, there is the issue of collective stress. I outearn my husband, but his job is stable (academic). He’s willing to take on some more stress to remove it from my plate. If he were to move to a less stable job, I would be enormously stressed out, because so much would be riding on my shoulders. How much stress would you be adding to your husband’s shoulders by taking it off your own?
Anon
There’s two different things going on here. One is your husband’s take on ambition or your perception of that and the other is the financial piece. The finances is easier to solve and there’s more options than what you’ve laid out, such as changing companies or moving to a higher paid sector with better IC pay. I take my spouse’s mental health and my own into consideration with jobs but there’s a big difference between “stresses you out” in a normal way and dangerous stress. You can see and know the difference. The kind of stress factors into the financial conversation. Being on different ambition pages is a separate issue. That’s one to talk out and may be less relevant if you work out the financial piece.
Anonymous
I’ve been doing the protein pudding thing (Fairlife or other shake plus SF jello pudding) and just tried pistachio pudding with chocolate protein shake – it may be a new favorite. Recommend!