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Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.Sales of note for 8.30.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off full-price purchase; $99 jackets, dresses & shoes; extra 50% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Final Days Designer Sale, up to 75% off; extra 20% off sale
- Boden – 20% off
- Brooks Brothers – Extra 25% off clearance
- Eloquii – Up to 60% off everything; extra 60% off all sale
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide; extra 60% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – Extra 20% off orders $125+; extra 60% off clearance; 60%-70% off 100s of styles
- Lo & Sons – Summer sale, up to 50% off (ends 9/2)
- Madewell – Extra 40% off sale; extra 50% off select denim; 25% off fall essentials
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Rothy's – End of season sale, up to 50% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear in the big sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 25% off regular-price purchase; 70% off clearance
- White House Black Market – Up to 70% off sale
Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
AIMS
Gorgeous. Reminds me of a similar DK jacket featured a while back.
Wish that both were hanging in my closet . . . .
The Online Shopper
I agree AIMS – this is gorgeous! Though the price is a bit high and it really reads “fall” to me because it is so dark (black) with long sleaves and a high collar. Maybe by the time that we can wear this, in the fall, it will be on sale for a price that we can all afford!
SALit-a-gator
Gorgeous? Yes. $2000 worth of gorgeous? No.
Amanda
I agree. This is way to expensive for me!
Anon
Every Monday…without fail.
Anonymous
Without fail.
Divaliscious11
That is why its called SPLURGE Monday. That said, based upon prior posts discussing compensation of board member, they are more than a few members for whom spending $2K on an investment piece really is not that big of a deal. Kat posts to meet the needs of all of her audience. ragging on her for splurge Monday is just as ridiculous as for complaining the Friday options are too cheap.
Ballerina Girl
Well, to be fair, they might just think THIS jacket isn’t all that nice–not that a splurge isn’t worth $2K.
Love it
I love it, can afford it and may buy it (I will check it out in person during my planned Nordies trip). I would not have seen it without Kat’s post, so Kat… thank you. I bet that many readers out there who can’t afford it or just don’t want to spend the money on this will use this jacket as inspiration and will find an amazing alternative that is affordable for them. If the Monday splurges bother you, skip over them, ignore them or just roll your eyes to yourself but PLEASE stop posting how without fail, every Monday an item is featured that is way too expensive. It’s getting old.
Cat
Although I like the overall shape, I think the rumply-ness of the detailing (and the way the black fades a little at the edges of the detailing, though that could just be the photography) looks out of place on an otherwise nicely-structured jacket. With tailored pleating instead, I’d love it.
Diana Barry
Hate the belt, so it’s a no go for me.
SF Bay Associate
Thoughts on where to buy a great, classic leather jacket? I’d like one that’s fitted/tailored (preferably with a waistline) and about hip length, not boxy, not cropped, and no details that will look dated in a few years. I shopped in downtown SF over the weekend and didn’t see anything! Maybe I need to wait a couple months for the fall collections?
Monday
I actually found a perfect, classic leather jacket at the Gap, 2 fall seasons ago. It was almost $300, but I wear it constantly and it is holding up very well. I think it would be worth at least checking with them for this fall to see if they have a current version.
PollyD
I just got a good deal on one in an end-of-season sale from Wilson’s Leather Outlet online (or whatever Wilson’s online presence is called). They don’t have a huge selection, but they had what I wanted – black, not double-breasted, a bit longer than hip-length.
ML
Oooh, SF, I have been looking for exactly the same thing! Please update us if you find something. I am looking for one that is collarless, in black, and preferably $300 or below. I’m going to check out Wilsons…
Anonymous
I actually had a really nice one from Wilson’s for years – I eventually sold it in a consignment shop. it was surpringly good quality and beautiful, considering where I bought it.
BarPrepper
Nordstrom has countless great hip length leather jackets…all stunning…heartbreaking, really. They’re awesome!
Ruby Lou
My fiance got me a beautiful one from Filene’s Basement last Christmas. It makes me feel like a total badass – really wish I could wear it to court. :-)
KOB
I’d have to make like 10 times what I do now to even contemplate spending this much on clothes.
Anonymous
Now we know.
counselorcap
I like the overall shape, but $2K seems like a lot for an unlined jacket that might have a significant amount of synthetic fibers in it. I know some amount is necessary for the stretch, but still. Couldn’t they have thrown in the skimpy-looking skirt? :-)
Moreover, the lack of real structure means only certain kinds of figure types could wear it.
Nordstrom Shopper
PSA to anyone who is/was considering checking out the Nordstrom Sale (pre-sale or otherwise). I went last weekend and found a great collection of items, well beyond what was in the catalog.
FWIW, I saw lots of skirts, sweaters, blouses, fall/winter dresses, beautiful coats and lots of shoes. Wasn’t looking for suits but I did see a few lovely ones.
Runnin' for it
I went in this weekend and actually wasn’t that impressed. It was a lot of capes and drapey sweaters and riding boots. I didn’t see any basic suits, which are all I am in the market for these days. But to anyone else interested in going in, the Nordstrom I went to allowed all card members to do the pre-sale, not just Level 2 or above. You could go in, shop and, if you want to buy, sign up for the card then and there.
Terry
I went last weekend and got a nice brown cardigan. I didn’t see anything that was really unique or unusual, but I think it would be a great place to stock up on high-quality basics. I saw a great black skirt, some good work dresses, etc.
ADL
There was an article from a Nordstrom personal shopper about how to survive the sale – and she said to go in several times, as new merchandise comes in all the time. (I mean, we’re talking about fall clothes and right now the temp in DC is 90+ degrees plus 100% humidity.) The Nordstrom anniversary sale is a marathon, not a sprint.
Bonnie
It’s hard to think about sweaters and tweed in this heat. I just put my winter clothes away.
A
I just bought a gorgeous Calvin Klein sheath dress (eggplant color), a classiques entier sheath dress in brown and a navy theory long cardigan. All will be staples in my fall wardrobe. I tried on tons of stuff chosen by a personal shopper and it took quite a while, but was worth it in the end. If you have time, you could pick up some great items at the sale, but need to invest some time searching and trying stuff on.
Emma
Beautiful.
Threadjack: Anyone know of any cotton work dresses? I’d love to find one that looks professional enough (not trying to overly impress anyone right now), but is washable. I can’t take drycleaning my summer clothes… I feel like they’re never truly clean.
Also looking for versatile casual cotton dresses for traveling in September. Need to pack light — will be gone for a month!
PollyD
Check out Target and H&M – once you get past the teenage hoochie wear (I feel a bit mean saying that, but that’s how some of the clothes look to me) H&M has some surprisingly light-professional things. You probably couldn’t wear them to a serious formal office, but I have gotten several jackets, skirts, and pants that I wear to work quite often. It does depend on the H&M, though.
People here seem to like Lands End and LL Bean, too.
Emma
Doesn’t H&M usually use polyester? I’ve had trouble going to places like H&M and Zara because it seems like it’s all synthetic.
AJ
I have a blue cotton military-style jacket from H&M (last year’s collection), so they do have some natural fibers, you just have to look!
houda
Zara has some organic cotton garments, I got few pieces that are 100% cotton.
PollyD
Yes, you do have to check the label. But they do have some cotton, or at least cotton-blend items and you can just throw ’em in the washer. I have found H&M quality to be okay, but I try to be fairly gentle on my clothes – cold water only (that said, I use the machines in the laundry room in my building, which may not be the most gentle) and just about everything I wear that can be publically seen gets hung up to dry, rather than throwing it in the dryer.
I find most of the cotton-poly blend stuff from H&M and Target to be fine for indoor + AC wear. I do not think that there exists clothing that would keep one cool AND looking professional outside in a typical DC summer. Although I guess it depends on what kind of profession we are talking about.
Nonny
“Teenage hoochie wear” – hee hee, love it!
A
Not sure how casual or formal your work is, and keeping in mind that few 100% cotton dress will make the cut if it’s even remotely formal — check out Boden, Garnet Hill, Talbots & even the Gap or Old Navy.
What about something like this:
http://www.talbots.com/online/browse/product_details.jsp?id=prdi26805&rootCategory=cat70008&catId=cat1290050&sortKey=Default§ion=Regular&conceptIdUnderSale=cat70008
Or this:
http://www.talbots.com/online/browse/product_details.jsp?id=prdi26942&rootCategory=cat70008&catId=cat1290050&sortKey=Default§ion=Regular&conceptIdUnderSale=cat70008
A
Or these:
http://www.talbots.com/online/browse/product_details.jsp?id=prdi26486&rootCategory=cat90030&catId=cat80018&sortKey=Default§ion=Sale&conceptIdUnderSale=cat90030
http://www.talbots.com/online/browse/product_details.jsp?id=prdi26417&rootCategory=cat90030&catId=cat80018&sortKey=Default§ion=Sale&conceptIdUnderSale=cat90030
http://www.talbots.com/online/browse/product_details.jsp?id=prdi26586&rootCategory=cat90030&catId=cat80018&sortKey=Default§ion=Sale&conceptIdUnderSale=cat90030
TCFKAG
Brooks Brothers has some cotton dresses right now, some of which are more casual, some of which are more dressy.
Might be worth a look.
KOB
I have one from J.Crew (actually the oulet site) that has been wonderful. It only opens on weekends so I would definitely check out the site this Friday.
Supra
I like Boden and Lands End Canvas for cotton dresses.
Anonymous
Lands End has a tone of cute, cheap, cotton dresses on sale in the store right now.
Mere
Check out J. Crew- 30% off final sale items + free shipping on $150.
What about a wrap dress, like this one : http://www.anntaylor.com/ann/product/AT-Apparel/AT-Dresses/Peacock-Feathers-Print-Wrap-Dress/258597?colorExplode=false&skuId=89683453&catid=cata000012&productPageType=fullPriceProducts&defaultColor=6600
Eponine
Try Eddie Bauer for the casual dresses – I picked up their “crinkle dress” on sale a couple weeks ago. Also try Athleta. For work dresses – I’m not sure. I don’t see very many cotton ones that are office-appropriate. What about rayon? It shrinks easily, but if you wash in cold water and air dry it should be fine.
Anonymous
If you can wait a couple of weeks for delivery, I suggest eshakti.com
K
Sorry for the lack of actual content but I just had to say that I am impatiently waiting to hear back about my dream job…
Emma
Good luck!! I know the wait can be excruciating.
Monday
When I was in this situation once, I made a list of all the good things I would still have going for me if I didn’t get the job. It helped–somewhat–tone down “give me this job or give me death” mentality that was taking over. If you’re as much a mess as I was, I suggest doing something like this!
EC
I just heard back from my current dream job with good news! Sending you good wishes.
Argie
Yay!
BKESQ
Threadjack – Does anyone have any suggestions or experience with reconnecting with a former boss? I fell out of touch with one of mine (she wrote several grad school recommendations for me), and I’d like to find a way to reach out to her as way to revive this professional relationship. TIA!
A
Just email her. I’ve done this several times, always with good results.
Inva
Whatever happened to that Corporette Moms newsletter? It was mentioned in the “Surviving the First Trimester” email, but now I can’t find any info about it. Just curious!
Reader P.
Ditto. I’d definitely subscribe!
Registry Q
I know this is silly, so pls. feel free to ignore.
I am trying to pick out a wedding gift from a former colleague’s wedding registry. The wedding is this Saturday and many gifts I would normally get are taken. What do you think is better to give: an expensive but rather useless, or at least rarely used, item (for ex., a crystal punchbowl) or a bunch of small items that the bride is sure to actually make use of and that have gone unclaimed (for ex., veggie peelers, spatulas, cookie sheets, etc.) I have tried to see if I can collect enough of the small items to make a theme gift, such as a”cookie making” collection, but all these remaining items are rather scattered. What would you all prefer to receive????
Alex
Lots of small gifts is great. I loved the box I got like that – and I use them all the time. FWIW, though, I did get a punchbowl, and while I don’t use it often, it’s really nice to have for the occassions when I need it!
anon
B!
I often pick multiple of the smaller, “kitchen accessory” type things from a registry and send them as a gift … and that way all that stuff is covered. You know she’s going to end up with 3 plates and 5 spoons etc. so may as well help her out and round out a few of the more necessary things.
(Unless you don’t know her well and want to send a more “formal” gift.)
She’ll get plenty of crystal punchbowls from other people.
j
I’d go with the expensive but useless. When I want to use those items (e.g., in my case fondue pot!), I really appreciate having them — and I remember who got them for me. Another idea would be one or two of the small things, and then a complementary off-registry gift, such as a cookbook you’ve used enough to be able to recommend wholeheartedly.
May
This
May
Oh dear.
I meant to say I second what E (posted below at 44) says about sticking to one larger thing for someone you don’t know too well.
Not my day.
E
If I were in your shoes and the person was a good friend, I’d definitely go for the hodgepodge of small items. But if the person were more professional contact than close friend, I’d go with the more traditional single gift.
Diana Barry
I would get a bunch of small things to round out the registry. If it is Williams-Sonoma, call them and see if they can put them together in a nice box (instead of shipping separately etc.).
Another Sarah
Personally, I’m all about giving and receiving things I would actually use every day, so for me the pretty punch bowl would be out. It seems as though you never know what you need/forgot until you’re in the middle of making something big for a dinner party and you’re trying out a new fabulous recipe and you reach for your [insert kitchen gadget people include on registries] only to remember that you don’t actually have one. As much as I hate that, I try not to let it happen to someone else if I have the chance. :-) But only one of my friends who has gotten married registered for something like a crystal punch bowl…or fine china…or silver…so I haven’t really had the choice.
LMN
I like the idea of smaller things that are on the registry and then adding something personal, like a cookbook (already recommended above) or your favorite gadget, or something a bit more personal, and then a note that ties it all together. But really, if they registered for it they want it (or at least they do at the moment), so either option is good.
Mandy
I just got married, and a colleague bought all of the little odds and ends remaining on my registry and I loved it! It saved me a trip to round out the registry, and I’ve used a lot of the little gifts already.
anonbargirl
Just broke down crying trying to study for the bar this morning.
I feel like when I think I know the material really well, I go and do some MBEs and I still find out new things I didn’t know. Passing seems impossible at this point. And how on earth am I supposed to be able to write an essay about any of this stuff.
Sorry, just needed to vent. And cry.
ElevenElle
Right there with you. I just keep reminding myself that Georgia counts the MPTs far more than the essays. I’m taking Kaplan/PMBR and their foundation course was incredible for learning MBE tricks. It don’t think it’s too late to sign up for it and you could easily do it in 3 days instead of 6. They also have a wrap up course that is 3 days that I suspect is every bit as good. I have a friend using AdaptiBar and said it’s great for practicing MBE too (get $75 off by using code ADAPT).
Anyway, know that you’re not alone. The only thing keeping me going is that in 17 days, it’ll be over. No matter what, that’s it. I can make it 17 more days. Good luck!
KOB
I could have written this 6 years ago. Hang in there — the fact that you’re still picking up new things only illustrates how much you actually do know. Good luck — these last few weeks are critical so just try to focus (but do give yourself mini mental health breaks) and kick a$$!
Rani
Awww, I think every single friend (male and female) I knew who was taking the bar had at least one horribly ugly crying jag. For me, just letting myself freak out for a bit helped me get past the fear and then on to actual productive work.
Wash your face, go for a walk and treat yourself to something you enjoy.
The whole process sucks, but what you’re going through is totally normal. Also, you’re better prepared than you think you are.
Many hugs.
JAS1
I commiserate! There was a thread this weekend all about bar anxiety, might help you to read it over (if you weren’t one of the participants; sorry I can’t recall) and see that you are not alone.
Also, how annoying is it when the questions don’t name the parties but instead just refer to them as such “A property owner owned Blackacre. A neighbor owned Whiteacre. The owner gives an easement to the neighbor…” And then another 20 lines of facts about these parties conveying, recording, getting mortgages, etc. I find it really confusing to keep straight which party is which because, eg, technically the neighbor is an owner too right? I will have to start writing in names for them myself. (Perry the property owner, Nell the neighbor)
Sorry everyone, I just really had to get that off my chest!
JAS1
I also want to add that it sounds like you prefer to wait until you are comfortable with a topic before doing practice questions. I am the same way, but I have found that doing the practice questions really does teach you a lot….and I am working on convincing myself that it is just as valid a way to learn as other forms of study. Getting low scores can be really disheartening, but I noticed if I do several sets of the same topic in a row (say, property) my score steadily improves. Still going to have to wait and see if that holds true when I revisit a subject after a few days.
Babs
Oh no Anonbargirl!
You only need to pass … which means getting MOST of the questions right. You will never know everything. It’s hard shifting your thinking from wanting to get an “A” in a class and studying for the bar exam where you just need to pass.
Last year, I was learning new things – right up until the final mini 3-day review that I did the week before the exam. And I passed. I also took another state in Feb. and had to take the MBE again and was STILL learning stuff 6 months later. Focus on what you are getting right, and realize there will be some things you will never learn. It’s a test of passing.
Take time to vent and cry. Take care of your self (exercise, nap, etc) to get your battery recharged… and get back on the proverbial horse. Good Luck!
Argie
This!
anon-oh-no
Also — the biggest thing to remember is that all you need to pass is literally a “D” grade. We all try so hard to get everything right b/c we are (or soon will be) lawyers and that is our mentality. But you really only need a “D” grade to pass — so dont beat yourself up
anon-oh-no
Apparently Babs and I are on the same page!
anonbargirl
Wow you guys are amazing! So many sweet replies in such a short amount of time.
I get the scores that BarBri tells us to get on the practice Qs or higher (sometimes quite a bit higher- I’m not bragging here, just saying), but its still a dismal score sometimes when Barbri only expects you to get say 55% right. I feel like I should be ROCKING these questions so that bar stress on the exam might bring me down a bit and that would still be okay.
JAS1- that is frustrating. I write out the pattern of sales beside the question, and put an “x” over the arrow I use to show transfer of property if it wasn’t recorded, for example- or put the date or recording above the arrow. Things like that seem to help.
I also find it frustrating that while I did well on my practice MPT, you’d think I would have gotten a really high score since the only pointers I got were really minor- I used “I” once in my answer, for got a conclusion sentence in one of many sections, and one other thing. I feel like I need a buffer so on the real bar I don’t need to perform at my absolute best, you know?
Would signing up for another mini prep help? I invested so much cash in BarBri I don’t see how I should need to pay for another course.
Rani
It sounds like you’re doing fine for the bar — it’s just that “fine for the bar” is a different standard than you were used to for undergrad/law school.
I’d advise against another mini-prep — concentrate on what you have and review that. Too much information/material may just overwhelm you — even though it seems like a good idea when you’re signing up for things.
ML
I wish I could give you a hug! This was me while studying for the CA bar. I think we all went through it. If it helps, I was literally learning new material for the first time on the plane trip to my testing spot. I felt like I wasn’t getting better, because I’d take those tests and get the same score over and over, or soemtimes do worse. And yes, i passed. The only advice I can give is: 1) try to think about the big picture. Don’t get hung up on just one subject area. Remember, it’s all about knowing the basics on A LOT of material, not about becoming an expert in property law (for example). If property is giving you a really bad time, move on to something else, if you can. 2) Try to get outside to walk or listen to music. If you really feel like you can’t, try this: sit at your desk, close your eyes, take a huge breath, and exhale very, very slowly. Do that 4 or 5 more times. It actually physiologically (and psychologically) calms your body. 3) believe that you will pass. It sounds stupid, but I stole my mantra from the P90X videos: Do your best, forget the rest. At the end of the day, that’s all you can control. Just do your best, and you’ll know you left it all on the table. Best of luck!
Hel-lo
You won’t be “rocking” anything related to the Bar Exam. It’s better to understand that now.
Lower your expectations for yourself. You can only what you can do to keep yourself sane.
The practice questions are designed to teach you things – not test what you know already. That’s why it’s so important to read the answers.
Lyssa
I broke down into tears so many times during the studying; it was awful and felt like it would never end. Guess what? It did, and I passed. It will end for you, too, and chances are that you’ll pass with flying colors.
One thing that people told me that helped, a little bit- Think of all of the attorneys that you know. I’ll bet that you know a few that are real dum-dums; like, you can’t even imagine them passing high school, much less law school.
All of them passed the bar! You can, too!
anonbargirl
I totally agree- all I can think of is those upstate NY lawyer ads. Those guys seem ridiculous! They passed, shouldn’t I be able to?
Ruby Lou
LOL – the Heavy Hitters, right?
You’re going to be just fine. Passing by one point is still passing, and you’ll probably never know your exact score anyway. I guarantee you will get in there to do the exam and you’ll end up knowing a lot more than you thought you did.
Anonymous
If you’re doing the BarBri sample questions on your computer, I found them to be much worse (all test tricks, no real law) than the actual exam. The Saturday before the bar I was getting 20% RIGHT on the computer. Had a breakdown, said screw it, went to see my favorite band, and wound up being in the 90th percentile on the MBE. You know more than you think you do. Just breathe.
R
Sounds like a good day to take a day off. Go for a walk, grab some ice cream, call your parents/siblings/friends from college to say hello. You’ve hit the brain overload point and need to decompress before you can absorb anything else.
R
And yes, you can take a day off in July. I promise.
TCFKAG
If it helps (which it may not), just know that this is completely and utterly normal at this stage. I mean…as in, its COMPLETELY normal and everyone is going through it. I don’t think I ever got more than 80% on practice questions/sections etc. Especially at the end when you’re getting to the more complicated questions.
Big picture, try to start recognizing patters and seeing types of questions. I also made flashcards everytime I got a question wrong with the legal issue that was key to that question.
I would also recommend, if you’re doing Bar Bri to actually watch the video with that guy explaining the answers to the practice MBEs. I know it seems like a waste of time, but he had a surprisingly cogent way of explaining things that actually are really helpful. And he had surprisingly good tips — I don’t remember them anymore, but they’d be like “every time X is on the test, they want you to say Y” that sort of thing.
Good luck! You’ll do great, just keep slogging through. You are going to be AMAZED by how much you know on the day of the test (and for about a week afterwards, and then poof, it’ll all be gone).
JMC
love that guy! found him the most helpful.
Anon
I cried during bar prep too (I was also pregnant, but I am positive I would have cried even if I wasn’t.) After one particularly rough day studying, my mom called and I just broke down on the phone with her. She came and took me to dinner and for a walk and I felt much better afterwards. Although, I was convinced I was going to fail. But I didn’t! It is so overwhelming, but like everyone has said, you only need to pass. Minimum Competency!
NJEsq
Practice MBEs were, IMO, MUCH harder than the real thing.
I found it was easier to study using the multiple choice, I’d read over the ones I got wrong and any that I was even a little hesitant on. They test the law so that when you go to write your essays, you know the basics. Figure out if you’re missing things in one specific area and go over that again.
Agree with another poster – it is completely normal to feel like the biggest idiot in the world studying for the bar.
It will all be over soon! And go ahead and cry :)
A Regular Lurker
I burst into tears several times while studying for the bar exam. The worst was the Saturday before the exam, when I didn’t do as well as I had wanted on the last practice MBE exam BarBri offers. I still passed, in a state where the bar is considered difficult.
I was a relentless Googler while studying for the bar, and when I wasn’t busy using WebMD to diagnose myself with various obscure diseases, I googled something like “going to fail the bar exam” and found a story about a girl who called her parents crying after the morning session of her first day, convinced that she had failed. They told her, “Well, you came all this way, you might as well finish, and it will be good practice for next time.” She finished, and she passed the exam. After that, when I started feeling panicky, I tried to tell myself, “Oh well, this will be good practice.” In its own weird little way, it helped me take some pressure off of myself. And there wasn’t a next time. Good luck!
Ri
I am right there with you. I live in a state where the MBE is 50% of our total. On top of that, I went to law school out of state (there is not one in the state I live in), so I was still being taught a new subject in my last Barbri class.
I am sure that if you are studying as much as it sounds like, than you will be fine. Here is some bar exam humor to give you smile, but know that there is a fair amount of profanity in it.
http://daisyjd.com/index.php/2009/07/bar-exam-humor/
AnonInfinity
I needed this today. It’s so hard to keep going when it all feels so futile.
Thanks ‘rettes.
Ballerina Girl
Okay, Corporettes. This is an age-old question and there’s no real answer, but I’m a 32 year old public interest lawyer in Brooklyn–any suggestions for new ways to meet intelligent, mature men in their 30s? I’ve done online dating and am over it (for now at least) but I’m feeling the pressure to get my dating life going. My problem is that my friends-of-friends pool has dried up a bit–and many of my friends are younger because I know them from law school.
Any ideas for “getting out there?”
Mel
Have you thought about volunteering? If you are political, maybe finding something you can do that will involve working with other volunteers of the same political mindset (thereby limiting the pool to people you have that in common with). Or joining a weekly softball/soccer, etc. team? This type of thing seems promising because it’s less forced than online dating and the pool of people you will meet will have some interest in common with you.
Good luck!
Anonymous
I volunteer at an animal shelter and take language classes at a community center and have met a lot of people through those two activities. Playing in a coed sports league (soccer, dodgeball, softball, whatever) seems like a good way to meet guys, too.
Anonymous
Sports bar that’s the local homebase for ex-pats from your city. So, a Red Sox bar in Manhattan, in the fall, the Steelers bar in Dallas, etc. Wear team colors, let loose.
lawtalkinggirl
One thing I haven’t tried yet in earnest is attending sporting events like hockey or baseball games. I went to a hockey game last winter and there were more men than I had seen in one place in a long time. If I am still single in the fall (seems likely) I would consider getting season tickets to my local minor league hockey team’s games. Then I would hang around in the beer area at each game, since that is where the men appear to congregate, drink just enough to get chatty, and start talking to people.
I have also begun asking everyone I know to set me up with single men. My friends of friends network is also tapped out, so I have started asking a few colleagues at work for help. I also ask my friends if they work with single people. At this point I do not care about mixing work with personal life. Finding a guy is too important to worry about that.
Lastly, I signed up with a professional matchmaker. It is expensive but my mom offered to pay the fee. I have yet to go on a date through the service but I have met gotten some “coaching.” I don’t know how this will pan out but I want to maximize my options.
If I end up at the end of my child-bearing years still alone then at least I can honestly say that I tried everything I could think of.
Ballerina Girl
What kind of advice did you get from your matchmaker? Interesting!
I’m completely un-sporty. I watched the World Cup last summer (because I love it) thinking well, this has got to lead to meeting cute boys. No such luck! People in NYC tend to stick to their packs, I feel like. But maybe I need to give it another try. I want to take advantage of the good weather since people tend to be more social in the summer!
lawtalkinggirl
She did not really have specific advice for me. I don’t dress funny or have bad teeth or have weird mannerisms that are likely to turn people off. I am basically already doing all the right things. I try to keep an open mind about people and generally go on at least two dates before deciding whether to continue to go on more dates. She did not think my standards were too high (at least a BA/BS, employed, chemistry).
What she did say is some people are choosers and some are chosen, and that I seem to be a chooser. That is, more people are interested in me than I am interested in. I will choose the one right for me. Other people are happy to be chosen by the one who likes them.
She also pointed out that in many cultures other than our own, matchmaking was a community service that most people used to find a partner. It was a given that this was too important a task to leave to a younger person, so older and wiser people usually performed the task. Of course, often those matches were arranged for financial or political reasons. But somehow this made me feel a little better about employing a matchmaker.
Ballerina Girl
Wow, so interesting. I think I may be a chooser as well. Where do you meet these guys that you are going on dates with? I feel like I only meet one or two eligible guys a year if it’s not in an online dating situation. I’ve had some bad experiences with online dating (it just feels so forced to me) so I’m really hoping to avoid going back to it for a bit. But I do feel like time is starting to get away from me.
lawtalkinggirl
I also only meet one or two guys a year who are single, in my age range, educated, and moderately interesting. I have met about 15 guys from Match.com in person. All were nice guys, but none were right for me. Online dating is horrible but it is really the only way I have found to meet a large quantity and variety of people.
I cannot even tell you the last time I was asked for a date in any other situation. Guys where I live are very reticent. There is another factor against me too. My ethnic background makes guys less likely to approach me or be interested in me. I am Asian, and I live in an area of the country that is 20% Native American. Most casual observers assume I am Native American (reasonably so, but they are wrong), and they are thereby are not interested. I had thought this was overly cynical of me, but I polled a few guy friends and found out that I was right. :-(
You said you are un-sporty but is there any sport at all you like to participate in? In my experience, guys like sports activities so that is where they will be. Unless you are specifically looking for an un-sporty fella. I did a women-only mountain biking clinic run by a local club earlier this summer and it turned out that all the instructors were guys. Mostly older, married guys, but I ended up joining the club and I plan to go out on group (mixed-gender) rides with them.
Hel-lo
I’ve been reading this book, “Why Mr. Right Can’t Find You.” It’s written by a man, and he makes some good points… like you really are likely to find men if you go to a bar alone, and men don’t really judge women that do that (like women do).
Mel
Another thought – if you can, try to get over the embarrassment of being forward. If you see a guy at a coffee shop that looks interesting and doesn’t have a wedding ring, go talk to him and ask him out. It’s tough to meet people but it makes it tougher when we wait for guys to make the first move.
Anon
To the JDed ladies–
My boyfriend gets the law review phone call this week, and he’s trying to decide if it’d be worth his while. He goes to a top 20 school, will soon be switching full time jobs to an awesome firm in his field, and has good grades. He’s not sure that the benefits of doing law review (i.e. resume building) will be as useful for him since he has a great job pretty much on lock for when he graduates in 2 years. But, if he makes it, it seems a big opportunity to decline. He is already very busy between work, school, and his personal life, and is worried about adding on such a big commitment. Any thoughts?
Thank you!
anon-oh-no
I did not do law review and kinda think the whole thing is a crock. That said, if he gets on, he should do it. No job these days is a lock and as a someone who works with the hiring committee at my firm, LR is (annoyingly) really important. If he’s in the top 5 (people, not percent), its not as important, but otherwise . . .
Ekaterin Nile
Congratulations to your BF!
Law review is worth doing even if he’s got a great job lined up for two years out. Not to be negative, but you never know if that job will actually be there in two years or how long it will last if the economy tanks again. You also never know what opportunities may come up in the future, and right or wrong, law review makes a difference at many law firms and for judicial clerkships.
It sounds like he’s got a lot on his plate, but I assume he gets some kind of course credit for law review (I did) so think of it more as a substitution rather than adding on (or a substitution plus, perhaps).
Ballerina Girl
I think he should do it. All journals are a pain in the butt but they are great on your resume–esp law review. He’ll have that on his resume for the rest of his life. It’ll be less impressive to say “oh, I could’ve been on law review but I turned it down.”
R
Journal is a miserable experience and a huge time sink. If he’s already working full time and going to school, he may need to assess whether he actually has the time to do it. He should also assess whether it really augments his resume; I think for most people it does, but I can see instances where it’s superfluous. The worst case scenario I could see is that he’d accept, not have enough time for everything on his plate, and his grades and office work product would suffer, negating any resume gain he gets from being a law review member.
As much as I hated it with a fiery passion and have found that it does nothing except get your resume in the “I should read this” pile instead of the “I should throw this out” pile, most people view journal/law review membership positively. And there’s a lot to be said for pile A over pile B.
s-p-s
These commentators are right – law review is drudgery cloaked in prestige, but if he has a chance, it’s worth doing it. Even if this offer leads to a great job for the foreseeable future, having law review on his resume will help him out for the rest of his career.
TCFKAG
Haha…”drudgery cloaked in prestige” describe big law to a tee. If you want to go big (or even mid-sized law), law review is worth it (it calls to the drudgery, prestige loving hearts).
Lydia
It is a big commitment, but he definitely should do it. It really matters to some firms. I remember a friend of mine did not do any work on our law journals, and one interviewer sort of made a big deal of it. It is great if your BF doesn’t need to interview again, but it is good to have on the resume just in case.
lawtalkinggirl
Don’t do it! Everyone I know who was on a journal was miserable and overworked. Life is for living, not for checking citations in an article nobody will ever read. Not joining a journal at my top-10 school was one of my better decisions in law school. Only do LR if you desperately want to get a clerkship and have no life outside of school (i.e. you are a gunner(and if you don’t know what a gunner is, you are one)).
lawtalkinggirl
P.S. It is really about lifestyle choice. If your life is “the law,” then go for it. If you want to have another life that includes friends, family, pets, hobbies, eating ice cream in bed, reading for pleasure, looking at cat videos, etc. then think carefully about whether you want to give that up for LR. I did not think it was worth it.
Runnin' for it
Before he turns it down, he should speak to people on the LR about how much time is actually involved. I’m 6 years out of lawschool, but I don’t remember LR taking that much time as a 2L’s. We had to spend a few hours per semester cite checking, and had to keep 2 hours per week of office hours. For the office hours I chose a time after a class when no one else was in the office, and I used it as my personal study office and got work done. For the note writing, I turned in the same paper I turned in for one of my classes. Considering that the LR is still on my resume at this point, I think it was worth it.
Lyssa
I agree with this. Law review was kind of a drag, but, considering that I got class credit, it wasn’t that big of a time-sink for the amount of credit that I received. Plus, most of the work was kind of mindless, so it was a welcome break from my more challenging classwork; I could listen to music or chat a bit while I did it.
For me, the real time-sink drag was the write-on process (my school required everyone to write-on, which I think is better, probably, than the grade-on, but the process was grueling! I’m not sure that I would do it again.)
Divaliscious11
It would be very difficult for me to recommend turning down law review or any journal, and as a transactional attorney, I can tell you it adds value. From a hiring perspective, its not determinative, but it is a differentiator, and if I have to equally qualified candidates, and one has journal experience and the other doesn’t, I am going with the candidate with law review. Why? Because while yes, it is a time suck, and can be incredibly tedious, that tediousness requires an attention to detail that is a critical skill in a transactional practice, particulry when crafting agreements where a misplaced comma can change the effect of a sentence. I spent many evenings in my first and second years of practice working on version 15 and 16 of documents, the ability to focus on that which you have read time and time again is a skill set honed on law review. Additionally, law review also offers an opportunity to learn to explore and critique and challenge thoughts often in an area where you have no background. If you have a journal option in your area, then by all means choose it, by my one regret was not choosing law review instead of the business law journal. Diving into areas with no existing expertise is critical for civil litigators, and helps to expand your thought processes for transactional attorneys. Even the Coif student with an appellate, SC clerkship and a white shoe offer can learn from the experience. Another valuable part of the experience in the team work required. Unlike an MBA program, where there are team requirements, law school doesn’t do a great job of building those skills unless you are on the competition teams, and even them, its 6-8 students in the whole school. Yes, it totally sucked sometime, but there is value in the experience.
Divaliscious11
TWO equally qualified candidates…..blah blah blah
Mel
He should do it. You never if that great job will turn out to be not so great and then he has a gold star on his resume when competing for new jobs. Law Review is a PITA but it’s only 2 years of actual work and will stay on your resume for life.
Anonylawyer
I didn’t even bother to try for law review or any other journal. At my law school, you had to do the write on even if you could grade on to LR. I actually could have graded on (I think) but never read past the first page of the write on packet. BUT… I was at a CCN law school, I was a 1L with a summer associate position in a V20 firm, and it was 2004. During the 2004 summer recruiting season, I had numerous interviews and got offers from a long ist of top firms, including places like Skadden, Latham, Kirkland, Sidley, Mayer Brown, etc. So clearly, not doing LR didn’t keep me from BigLaw in any way. Fast forward to the present and I am a 5th year associate in a V100 firm. I managed to lateral without having any issues from not having done a journal. My law school grades were quite good, my career started at a top firm, and my law school is tops though. The lower ranked your law school – even 5 years ago – the more important the journal experience.
That said, a lot has changed since my experience. In the current economic climate, I would recommend that your BF not pass up the opportuntity because BigLaw jobs are harder to come by. Second, even before the economy tanked, it would have been a liability to not have LR if I wanted to clerk. If your BF is even thinking of a judicial clerkship (or becoming an appellate lawyer, which typically requires a clerkship), LR is a must.
Eponine
It’s probably the one law school credential that sticks with you for the rest of your career. He should do it. He may have a lock on his first post-JD job but law review will help him get his foot in the door at future jobs, too.
Diana Barry
Ditto. I was on a journal (not law review) and my friends who were on law review have had it open amazing doors for them.
Bridget
He should absolutely do it. The “cred” it adds to the resume just simply, for no apparent reason since you don’t really learn a whole lot of skill, opens doors. I am positive I got the interviews I got and the job I have because that line on my resume made a difference.
Then, once he is on it, he should do as little work as possible without getting kicked off. It’s not that much work if you don’t let it be. (I, btw, did not follow this path and chose to run for office — that was not worth it, and everyone I know from LR agrees that breezing your way through is the way to go.)
Anon
Thank you so much everyone for the comments. It’s a huge decision, and he’s really thinking hard. This was extremely helpful for him. Fingers crossed!
I will post tomorrow what happens. He’s not positive he has the grades for Law Review, but is also hearing from other journals that he should be a shoo-in for.
Sydney Bristow
You’ve already received a ton of advice, but I personally enjoyed my time on law review. I became close with some people who I probably wouldn’t have interacted with much. Call me crazy, but I kind of enjoyed cite checking and my third year I was an articles editor so I got to help choose the articles we included and my job was basically done by December.
I did it purely for the resume bump because I was not top in my class. I’ve had a ton of positive comments on it in interviews and from mentors, but for what its worth I still haven’t found full time employment. I still found it beneficial.
Lee
My fiancee and I met in law school and he turned down law review while I accepted and hated journal work. 3 years after graduation, neither of us regret our decision. Basically, it depends on what you want after law school. Here are our different circumstances:
He had an extremely strong pre-law school career, was also getting an MBA, and knew he didn’t want to do litigation and possibly wanted to end up in business. His grades were such that it was clear based on his GPA that he could have graded on to law review. He turned it down and wrote “invited to join ___ Law Review” on his resume. After working in Biglaw for a couple of years, he’s now in a business field. I think he’s an example of somebody who could turn it down without any worry.
I, on the other hand, wasn’t worried about job security (had an offer after 1L summer and this was before the ecomony tanked) but knew I wanted to litigate and clerk. I did a federal appellate and district court clerkship, changed my mind about where I wanted to live so had to turn down my Biglaw offers, and had to re-interview during the recession. I know that I could not have accomplished all of this without law review on my resume.
Honestly, it’s hard for me to recommend that somebody turn down law review in this economy unless they are in the rare category that my fiancee was in. It’s something that will only help you, will always be recognized as valuable on a resume, and you never know what the future will bring. That’s not to say you need it to have an excellent careeer–you obviously don’t. It just has the possibility of opening doors and making things easier down the road.
Anonymous
If he wants to work in big law or mid-size law, I think doing law review is an advantage. By no means is it determinative – My firm often declines to extend offers to law review candidates in favor of solid non-law review candidates. However, we always look at law review on a candidate’s resume positively. it does not hurt a resume; if anything, it helps a resume.
Having said that, if he REALLY does not want to do law review and the ONLY reason he is considering it is for resume reasons, let it go. No use doing something you’ll hate – life’s too short for that. Rather, focus on getting excellent grades and find extra curricular law school activities you like. Most associates at any given law firm were not on law review.
housecounsel
Hi, Corporettes! Just wanted to say that I bought the Target dress featured on Friday. It’s cute, but it’s much too t-shirty for me to consider it to be a work dress. I wore it with flat sandals to run around with my kids this weekend.
Anonylawyer
Thread jack…
I am getting a divorce. When my STBX and I split, my BFF’s SO offered to talk to my STBX because he is divorced. Now that 2 months have passed and the situation with STBX and me is very contentions, I want to end the communucations between my BFF’s SO and my STBX. I only thought they’d talk once, but the SO even went as far as suggesting places for him to live – they’ve talked quite a bit. It has gotten to the point that I am afraid to confide in my BFF in case she tells her SO and she shares it with STBX. Is there a tactful way to tell BFF that I don’t want her SO talking to STBX anymore? It’s getting to the point where I really need them to take sides.
Oneanon
“Is there a tactful way to tell BFF that I don’t want her SO talking to STBX anymore?”
No, I don’t think you get to tell your BFF who her husband can and can’t be friends with. But I do think there are many tackful ways of gently reminding your BFF that, although you know you don’t need to tell her this, you’ve always valued her discretion and ability to keep your conversations between the two of you, and this is even more important to you now knowing that her husband and your STBX seem to be becoming buddies.
Anonylawyer
That’s a good way to put it.
MaggieLizer
Sorry if this shows up twice, I got the “posting too quickly” message….
Agreed.
Some couples, however, share EVERYTHING. If she’s your BFF then you’ve probably been friends with her long enough to know whether she and her SO are that type of couple. Even if she tries to keep her mouth shut, sooner or later something may slip and get back to your STBX that you wish hadn’t.
Anonymous
I would stop confiding the deep, dark stuff to the BFF. Enjoy the friendship as unconditional love but know that the confidante part of the friendship IS conditional, and one such condition (her amour’s new friendship, blameless but dangerous to you) has sprung up. Talk to your mom about the heavy stuff! :)
Hel-lo
“…getting to the point where I really need them to take sides.”
This is tough. Maybe they won’t. Maybe they will. Either way, it won’t be your decision.
Divorce is really hard. Good luck, and we’ll be sending you good thoughts.
PS: You have an attorney, right? One that is not his? One that can help you stay calm and provide some emotional distance?
Eme
Is it just me or did regularly visiting this site made you hyper-critical of how people dress professionally? It sounds like a crappy thing to say but I realize that the majority of professional women that I have seen walking the streets of NYC dress quite poorly. Very rarely do I come across a women that is dress appropriately and attractively as per Corporette standards.
Ever since I discovered this site in 2008, I have developed a sharp eye for detail that I did not have before. I literally give people complete makeovers in my head. Its insane, but I cannot seem to turn it off. I sometimes feel awful because I feel I am being catty when I silently criticize a women for having run-down shoes, or an unflattering suit/top combination, or looks like Corporate Barbie.
I never pass judgement about their intelligence, which I know they must have in spades to be working on Wall Street. I guess I just wished they looked more professional because being a women in a male-dominated industry is hard enough.
Self-involved reflection over :)
Eponine
I was a judgy bitch already before I discovered this site, so it just gave me an outlet :). But I see what you mean.
meara
Oh, I looooove giving people makeovers in my head! (“Hmm, pink would be a better color…those jeans pockets are in the wrong place to make your ass look good…oh a muu-muu is not the right choice!”). But then I feel entirely hypocritical because well, I myself am not the best of dressers on an everyday basis (especially since gaining some pounds and most of my clothes not fitting!) so who am I to judge? If I had magic powers, I should start with myself! Ooh, I wish!
Diana Barry
Yes! I also give people complete makeovers as I walk by them. Fret not, you are not alone. :)
Equity's Darling
Oh I’m totally in the same boat as you. I went to a CPLED (equivalent of the bar exam in some Canadian provinces) meet and greet session, and every woman that got through the door I considered whether I’d wear her outfit/ how I would make it better. It also makes me neurotic about what I wear now- my goal is become comfortable with professional accessories by Christmas.
I suppose it’s better than walking around and subtly sabotaging my own career by wearing trousers at the wrong length or other fashion faux pas.
MaggieLizer
I just wish I could do this to (for?) myself as well as I do with other people.
Divaliscious11
Its fine, so long as you keep in mind that the opinion of posters on this site are not the rule for every place of employment, and what is not “appropriate” in the eyes of many posters on this board, is perfectly acceptable at many work locations. You also have to remember that people have different economic responsibilities, so while someone may be working on Wall St, they may be helping out older parents etc… and buying new shoes may be low on their list of priorities. Finally, how you define professional, is your definition, and it is often a pretty narrow definition on this board. What you think in your head is fine, just remember that others may think very differently…..
Esquirette
This. I have periods where I feel myself doing this, and I make myself stop (with a mental smack upside the head). As much as I like to look great and gain confidence from it, I hate how much society focuses on appearance, particularly with respect to women. Really, there doesn’t seem to be a way to win regardless of how subjectively “great” or “not great” you look . . . some kind of negative judgment is always readily attached. As I know how much I loathe being on the receiving end of judgments regarding my appearance, I don’t want to contribute by judging anyone else. It’s not easy but I try.
AIMS
I think this site has definitely made my “judging” more precise — as in, now, I can identify and articulate what I find “off” about a particular outfit (e.g., exposed zipper! the horror!), whereas before, maybe, I just liked or disliked certain things more generally.
But I am also the same way when I read someone’s pleadings or legal memos, and etc. One typo or grandiose hyperbole and the same judgmental bells inside my head start ringing. . .
I always try to remember, however, that a single incident (whether grand overstatement or just sloppy shoes) does not a pattern make. Today, for instance, it’s boiling hot outside and I don’t have to see too many people in my office — so as I write this, I am sitting here in a frumpy/borderline appropriate sundress, with my door closed, and you could all totally give me a makeover if you saw me!
E
Yes, I’ve found it a very unattractive quality in myself.
I also think it takes mental energy away from actually thinking about the crux of my job. When I’m standing around at a conference looking at people’s outfits instead of thinking about the content of said conference or who to network with, etc. I think it’s pretty damaging. I never used to do this.
Ellie
Ahhh me too. It upsets me that I’ve gotten so critical, but it’s something I’ve really noticed in the past year or so.
Amelia
I empathize with you Eme. Although, I think I have blinders to myself, because more often than I’d like to admit I wear run-down shoes, or an unflattering suit/top combo. I guess knowing that I’m not perfect makes me feel better when I think I’m being overly critical to others. Also, if I’m close enough to someone I share this blog with them if I think they can use it. In terms of slightly judging strangers…you know I’ve been on a new spiritual bent and I’m starting to realize that in judging others it’s really just a reflection of how I feel about myself. Not saying that’s the case with you, but with me I often harshly judge other women’s clothing when they have a flaw that I think I possess or have possessed in the past, something that I’m trying to cover up in myself, and it elicits a shame response that immediately turns into judgement of the other person…when really it’s myself that I’m judging. But yes, this site has made me more knowledgeable of flaws, internally and externally, and as much as I love it it’s given me more reason to be critical of myself and others.
Amelia
*silently, not slightly judging strangers.
TCFKAG
Its funny because I think that I’ve mostly gone the other way. Now I notice much more the things I like about other people’s outfits (frequently shoes, jewelry, or particular color combination). In turn, this has made me somewhat more of a shopaholic…but what can you do.
Though…I have started noticing people’s hem lines a lot more than I used to. Makes me feel like a 1960s era nun.
AEK
I have this problem sometimes too, but on the positive side, I think my work wardrobe is more varied than it used to be… I felt great today combining a little-used blazer over a sheath dress, with nude pumps, and coming up with a great suit alternative.
Selia
Beautiful, interesting jacket – I wish the skirt was plain, though, and did not have the ruffle/seam going down it.